In some, for sure. But not in all. Further, the likes of Lundin and Lidgran are generally naive about LENR and what has been claimed, and also about the realities of claimants like Rossi. There is nothing new about Rossi's claims except the scale and the showmanship, and there are now even better shows being put on. The real research is also going on, with little general notice. The real research is difficult. with many possible pitfalls. But it is being done, and some are doing it well. Others, not so well. Cold fusion at this point does not need theoreticians to propose Yet Another Theory, the common wisdom in the field is that it needs a "lab rat." Nobody has yet succeeded in designing and testing one that produces reliable results. Scientific knowledge can exist without reliability of an effect, through correlation, and there are correlations that have been found and confirmed widely, but these are not enough to break through the "rejection cascade," not yet. The knowledge is, however, becoming established. So it is likely a matter of time.

That report is common. The report of radiation was debunked, it was artifact. Later work showed radiation, but at very low levels. However, the basic finding, anomalous heat, was never "debunked," and there are no plausible allegations of fraud from them, but that idea became widespread anyway. And how an information cascade like that operates is indeed of high interest. How does a "scientific consensus" arise when there is no scientific process behind it?

Rather easily, apparently. I don't know how often it happens, but what is called "scientific" often is not. See Consensus is what we say it is

It would be. Yes, there were two nominally 1 MW reactor sets in Florida. However, Mats Lewan, who has been cited here, allows Rossi to gloss over the elephant in that living room. If those reactors had been producing a MW, where did the heat go? There was expert testimony in Rossi v. Darden, that without a heat exchanger, the heat would have been fatal in that warehouse. (Rossi's expert agreed!) So Rossi, last minute -- previously he had claimed that it wasn't necessary and he gave a series of "explanations" why -- claimed to have constructed a heat exchanger, didn't keep the receipts (for a huge pile of piping) and paid the workmen in cash, and dismantled it when the "test" was done, and it's not his fault that nobody noticed this massive and noisy construction. "Nyah, nyah, You can't prove I didn't"!!! But this was a civil trial and a jury would very obviously have ruled on the preponderance of the evidence, and I think there was enough evidence to show, further, in a criminal trial, that Rossi lied, under oath, and I think his lawyer -- I was there and saw it come down -- realized that he needed to end the farce, ASAP, and did, and did it in a way that a clueless commentator like Mats Lewan would believe that "Rossi won!" -- i.e., that he got what he wanted, his technology back. Which he already had and was free to exploit, without spending millions of dollars on legal fees, as he did to file and prosecute that lawsuit.

No, this was just one more Rossi lie. He wanted more money, not satisfied with $10 million, and probably believed that Industrial Heat, embarrassed, would settle quickly.

Me, too. I have been collecting all the relevant documents, and the world looks different to someone who has seen all this. Some aspects become clear. Yes it is possible that useful energy could be released, but possible doesn't pay the rent, unless someone buys the futures and you are selling. There is money going into LENR. Industrial Heat may not have much left of the $50 million, but there is more where that came from.

And the landscape is crawling with scammers. There are now at least two companies with ICOs based on LENR claims, with, very likely, little or nothing solid behind them but some results that, if they have been correctly interpreted, and maybe with years of effort, could eventually be turned into something useful.

I hope to visit Brillouin next month. They are for real, but do they have "commercially relevant" results? What does that mean? They are nowhere close to a product. They may have some anomalous heat, but it is actually unlikely that they understand the process. LENR has engaged some very bright minds for almost thirty years, and my opinion is that nobody understands it, and that this situation may continue for a long time.

Then there is no verification. That was a test of a secret device, no details were available, so a theory of operation was massively speculative. Rossi was quite proud, at the time, that Industrial Heat had manufactured that device. Yet when they tested it, they also, at first, found substantial excess heat -- using the same defective method of estimating it. Then they realized that they were accidentally testing a dummy reactor, with no fuel. They called up Rossi and he came up from Florida and Darden and Rossi opened up the reactor. No fuel. Darden testified that Rossi exclaimed, "The Russians stole the fuel!" and stormed out. As if it mattered how it happened that this "heat-producing" reactor had no fuel in it. The Lugano team had failed to validate their method, relying solely on theoretical analysis and incorrect assumptions.And Rossi''s history is full of examples where he sort-of-fooled scientists, or seemed to have. Many, in fact, reserved judgment.

"Due diligence" for what? We now know that Woodford representatives visited the 1 MW reactor (in Doral, Florida), and that they invested $50 million in Industrial Heat, and committed $150 million more if needed. Where did that money go? None of it went to Rossi, Industrial Heat was supporting many researchers. What Industrial Heat had actually done was to confirm that Rossi was deceptive and that his reactor could not possibly be working as claimed. Many, at the time, knowing that Industrial Heat had been working with Rossi, and that Woodford had invested, assumed that the investment was in Rossi and that this confirmed that Rossi claims were real. Nope. The opposite, it turned out.

No that patent was not previously refused, a previous patent application was. The patent was granted for a water heater. It's meaningless. What "credible reports"? The company that owned that 1 MW reactor was not impressed, and refused to provide further payments to Rossi.

The second report, the "Lugano test," had no control, and used a seriously defective method of estimating heat production. The blunder was actually obvious to anyone who carefully read the report, and it was based on believing whatever they had been told by Rossi. And this has been carefully critiqued, and those "reputable scientists" have ignored that, stonewalling all serious questions. Much of this came out in the lawsuit. The jury is not out, they were actually dismissed. Rossi could not afford to have that trial continue, so he offered a settlement, a walk-away. Otherwise he was risking a perjury conviction. The case record is public and all the documents are on coldfusioncommunity.net. It's really an appalling case. But who has time to read a thousand documents?

In fact, there was a level of junk science out there, sloppy research, sometimes naive and sometimes just plain wrong, and those who knew what was going on were mostly under Non-Disclosure Agreements and, as well, the entire field of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions was generally allergic to criticism, researchers avoided criticizing each other. Mostly. There have been exceptions,. but those who are not familiar with the field, and especially if inclined to be skeptical -- which is normal --, will not see them unless they look, and it it is not easy to find the information. That's what I'm working on.

Yes. If one can get past the frothing at the mouth, this is basic physics. What might be impossible is much narrower, because catalysis is possible and there is a form that is well-known and accepted, which was called "cold fusion" before Cold Fusion. Muon-Catalyzed Fusion. Muons are very unlikely as an explanation of the Anomalous Heat Effect, but could there be some other kind of catalysis? Or something else unexpected? Obviously, the "unexpected" cannot be ruled out. But pseudoskeptics cheerfully proceed to believe that not only can it be ruled out, it was ruled out long ago, and "everyone knows." And that is called "scientific consensus." Really. It is. Gary Taubes knows a lot about this!

It was well-known that nuclear reactions at low initiation energy (read "temperature") were not impossible. A lot of people who should have known better mouthed inanities, given the opportunity. The "impossibility" argument, defective from the beginning, was a very poor argument against Rossi Reality. Possibility does not equal Reality.

With everyone using lousy language, on all sides. Fleischmann and Pons found anomalous heat and also believed they found radiation. The latter claim was defective. The anomalous heat, in hindsight, was not. The claim that it could not be confirmed was misleading. That is, "it," i.e., the heat. Evidence that the heat was from a nuclear process was either indirect, circumstantial, or confusing (tritium was found and confirmed in "similar" experiments), until 1991, when MIles reported the heat/helium correlation.

Fleischmann and Pons were real scientists, but got whacked upside the head by unexpected results and the entire affair was massively confused by the commercial possibilities, which led to secrecy and, indeed, visible caginess. It was a Perfect Storm.

If anything is clear about cold fusion, it would be that,whatever it is, is not "similar" to what happens in the Sun, which requires a plasma, and the Anomalous Heat Effect, as it is much more neutrally called, requires "condensed matter," impossible on the Sun. Hey, I used the word "impossible!" Probably impossible, unless the reactor is made of Unobtainium which can withstand the heat. I.e., with real materials, maybe it's possible, for a few minutes. This conversation was a set-up, created by the way words were used in 1989, on all sides.

In order to address that question, we must define "cold fusion"? Isn't that obvious? Yet this "detail" is often overlooked, and so people argue endlessly, talking past each other. By some definitions, "cold fusion" is probably impossible. ("Impossibility proof" is an oxymoron, that's well-known.) By others, it's possible, but that provides us no information about Dottore Rossi.

for a quick and dirty estimate, lattice constant for Pd: is almost 4 angstroms or 4 x 10^-10 m. He meant "100 micrometers," not millimeters.And it's odd he picked the largest crater, 10 microns is more common. a million lattice constant cube would be 100 lattice constants on a side, or 4 x 10^-8 m or, to compare with crater size, 4 x 10^-5 microns. But in the FCC lattice there are four atoms per cell. So a million atom cube would be about 2.5 x 10^-5 microns. Yes, much smaller, but the reaction rate must be very low per atom, and these reactions must take place very rapidly, or else the temperature would not be much elevated.

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Mr. Ashfield repeats an old Rossi deception. Rossi claimed to have a commercial product, to have sold it. More than once. Again and again, he has repeated "in mercato veritas." He engaged with the real market and it spit him out. What would convince skeptics would be devices that they can see working and can test. That means they are available. Whether or not they are being sold is a different matter. Rossi actually will not disclose if it works at all, i.e., by actual truth, as shown by working devices, not by chatter. He deprecates chatter, but that's all he does, plus tinker with tricks.

In order to know if the device is producing power, one needs to know the input power, which is normally done by measuring input voltage and current. Those values provide a figure for resistance, but Rossi claimed the resistance was zero. He was applying high voltage to the device (in the demonstration, you could hear the zapping periodically.) If the resistance were zero, the input power would be huge for those intervals. It is brought out again because this whole thing is incredibly stupid. Keep saying stupid, people will keep pointing it out. That's normal human behavior.

Itt was possible to think that Rossi might have something back before the lawsuit revealed way too much. Yes, there was always cause for suspicion, but the situation now is that Rossi clearly makes highly deceptive claims, nothing from him can be trusted, and he seems to be able to influence those who spend time with him. Beware. This has nothing to do with "how it works."

However much, orders of magnitude above Mr. Ashfield

If everyone were to agree with me on everything, I'd be sure I was out to lunch. In any case, this is a splendid opporunity to test hypothes.is annotation with a private site.

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the help thermostimulated depolarisation (TSD)* technique.

samples near **Tc with

mass from 5*10-2 g up to

Experimental part [new line]

The samples consisted of ferroelectric single crystals of K(Dx H1-x)2PO4 with

1. Introduction [cap and new line]

As it was shown earlier [1-3]

Abstract [new line]

neutron emission processes in DKDP crystals near Tc quite correctly, has been proposed.

through K(DxH-x)2PO4 crystals in the vicinity of ...

in a range of 0.1[<=]Tx<=]25 n/s[times]cm2 (where To=0.1 n/s[times]cm2 - cosmic background flux).

neutron detector background values of 1[<=]Nx/N0[<=]270

in solid angle of 4 [pi] was used for experiments with

shown in fig.1 has been used. A Cf252 source of neutrons with intensity ~ 200 n/s

(fig.2, curve 1,2).

intensity ([delta]N) has place. The emission intensity .

It just happens to be atmospheric because the pressure gauge is pressure referred to atomospheric (i.e., "barg" instead of what the Penon report reads, "bar," and then the pressure gauge is not the one described in the test protocol -- absolute pressure was correct for the application, not gauge pressure -- but ... if the gauge fails, perhaps from being over the rated temperature, that's very likely to be the constant reading. And the removal of the gauge by Penon insured that it could not be checked. Penon, in fact, if in cahoots with Rossi, which appears possible, could then have switched gauges, creating a tested gauge that was working perfectly.... This is all Planet Rossi, absolutely refusing to allow genuine independent testing, and calling details like calibrations "stupid."

The natural consequence. Nobody with major money is ever going to trust Rossi again, unless they are compleat idiots who don't look caefully at history, thus beinig condemened to repeat it. There was sufficient unclarity about the Italian Petrol Dragon affair to allow a reasonable possibility that Rossi was right, it was the Mafia. IH is not the Mafia, only Sifferkoll appears to beleive that.

Right. Basically, if the Plant output is mixed steam and water, it may then have a constant temperature, the boiling point of water at the pressure involved. This woudl also occur if the output is unmixed phase, I.e, steam over flowing water. This was all clear in studies of the early Rossi calorimetry, in 2011, so that this was not carefully examined by Penon is telling. The steam over water may have a higher temperature than water flowing below, depending on conditions. Temperature would depend on exact temperature sensor placement.

With the removal of evidence, spoliation was the immedate comment of a lawyer before the issue was raised by IH, it becomes impossible to determine the fact. What should have, in a proper test, been very simple, becomes very complicated.

The idea of "conservative" analysis depends on an a priori assessment of what is important and what is not. It is never a great idea to conceal data. Failing to record detailed flow -- which might, then, have shown the expected variations -- failure to check the pressure, to make sure that the pressure sensor was working, where a constant pressure reading was suspicious -- all this is a mess, the kind of mess Rossi has long created.

If there was dry steam, which is a Rossi claim, the steam was allegedly "superheated," then there would be temperature variation, absent what THH states, a "very sophisticated control system," and doing this in the face of changing reactor performance, variations in power dissipation on the "customer side," "very" is an understatement, and why would one care so much as to go to all that trouble. The customer did not require dry steam, some level of entrained water would not be a problem ... and the removed trap would have "cleaned" the steam. A bit of overtemperature in the steam if it was actually superheated, would not be a problem either.

No, the combination of almost-fixed temperature, fixed pressure, and fixed low (at nominal values) is highly implausible.

Pressure meter failure from overtemperature operation seems quite possible. What did the recalibrations Penon ordered show? I have not reviewed the Penon deposition, and I don't think we have all of it. I'd assume Penon was asked.

Given the benefit for what purpose? This is not a criminal trial. However, many are interested only in the excess heat question. Because Rossi has shown that he lies, and because he has shown that he somehow induces scientists -- even established skeptics like Essen -- to make face-palm errors, nothing from Rossi or generated in a zone of high Rossi influence, can be trusted. It's "fake news." And the people who cling to fake news are people who already "know" what it appears to confirm.

If the Rossi Effect is real, Rossi will, I'd think, show someone his secrets, fully. If he cannot find anyone to trust, then the outcome is Natural Consequences. Paranoia strikes deep.

Rossi's health may be failing, there are signs in the depositions. I understand why people like Rossi. I feel some substantial sympathy for him, in spite of all that he has done (and in spite of his calling me a paid puppet of IH). If he has a real effect, and if he actually cares about those children with cancer, and about the rest of us and our future, I strongly hope he will make that disclosure, and take steps to insure that the transferred technology actually works. He always said, the proof is in the market, and he was right as to an ultimate proof. So if people want to support him, if they believe him or in him, then .... let them raise the funds and make it so. Nothing could stop them.

But we now see that Rossi had full opportunity to do this with IH, to make $100 million and then half the world market, which would be many, many billions, and he blew it, badly. Conclusions are obvious, though many details may remain obscure.

The evidence is strong, the data shows many signs of not being collected data, but filtered, averaged, and what was represented as independent collected was not, the evidence suggests single-source. Mostly Rossi and/or Fabiani.

It is not possible to "prove" that the data is not real, but this could be shown to a high probability. This could be difficult in court, but actually is not necessary for IH. The fact that it is all obscured by counter-defendant actions, spoliation of evidence, may be enough to show damages.

While I have found what, at first glance, appear as weak statements in the IH Statement, they are not critical. These are, legally, for the most part, uncontested facts.

I think Rossi et al will have the opportunity to contest them, but consider this: winning at this point could be a Pyrrhic victory. They then get to go to trial where fact will be determined by the jury. That is, they might raise some doubt now, but then face trial expenses, for what outcome? And if they call the stated "facts" into question using perjured testimony, they will then increase the substantial risk of a perjury prosecution, not to mention increased legal costs for IH, which might then be awardable.

When I looked at the Complaint, before there was anything else, I noticed the lack of signatures on the Second Amendment. I thought this was mere sloppiness. Did Annesser not notice? I think I remember writing that, if he'd noticed, he could have suggested that Rossi supply his own signature for Leonardo, and ask Ampenergo to sign a copy, since I was assuming, at that point, that this was a mere oversight -- and signatures were not dated. However, I did not know, but Rossi knew, that Ampenergo had actually refused to sign, so the Second Amendment was obviously invalid. IH was obviously willing to negotiate over the delay, but Rossi was not about to deal with IH as equals, peers, actual partners. If Annesser didn't notice, failure of due diligance on his part, and I see a Motion for Sanctions in the future. His incompetence, on this theory, has cost the parties millions of dollars. And Ruth Silver might be on the hook as well, a truly unfortunate consequence, since I doubt that she meant any harm, she simply failed to adequately supervise her employee. Hey, Rossi was happy with him!

It is behavior like this that leads me to suspect psychopathology. It would be called "high functioning." Yes, even Mats Lewan knows this about Rossi.

Technically, the customer is real and Johnson is legally responsible. However, what is not real is the alleged and insisted-upon independence of the customer. Rossi and Johnson, with Bass assistance, created the illusion of independence.

IH knew that Johnson was a lawyer and trusted that a lawyer would not mislead them like this. What was Johnson thinking? Perhaps he was thinking billions in profits, trusting Rossi himself. IH claims to have not noticed that Johnson was actually Rossi's lawyer until later.

People have claimed that they did not do due diligance, but they were not making a major new investment, merely allowing Rossi to do what he wanted. Johonson's defense was largely based on "they didn't lose anything," which, unfortuantely for Johnson, isn't quite the case. But it was not large, compared to the overall investment in the Rossi License and in associated research and testing, and the cost of attempting to keep Rossi happy in spite of his incipient paranoia.

And then there was Fabiani, who seems a pitiful character, reactive, frightened, with his friend Rossi throwing him under the bus, and not know what to do, he deleted all the data he had. I might expect to see that from some stupid teenager. Bottom line, he broke his contract and his own promises to IH (Murray had promised to pay him the balance on the contract if he turned over his data, promised to have the check ready when they would meet. Did Rossi encourage him to refuse? Did Rossi encourage Penon to refuse to answer the Murray questions in writing when they were formally presented in writing?

I wondered what Johson thought when RvD was filed. Did he think this was a Great Idea? I suspect not. Bass was clueless, and Fabiani was freaked out. Penon disappeared, etc.

Yes. It's obvious. While Rossi at times seems to maintain the idea of JMP as independent, this is simply a demonstration of how Rossi creates an idea, then believes it. He had an idea of JMP as independent. He had an idea of working with Johnson Matthey, so he presented that as fact. He has done this kind of thing over and over.

What is really odd is that Mats Lewan seems blissfully unaware of all this. He is skeptical of the IH position, while trusting Rossi, and clearly is unaware fo the evidence or somehow interprets it away.

Many looking at this case don't realize that LENR, if real, could be a trillion dollar technology. Looking at a $100 million investment, say, and at 1%, this would make the investment worth an expected return of 100:1.

Their actual investment in the Rossi Effect was roughly $20 million (that was their initial stock offering). and to allow for costs of the lawsuit, $25 million. The risk of loss beyond that is very low, because the real operating company now, sole owner of IH, is IHHI, which isn't touchable, and the Rossi attempts to pierce the corporate veil, both with Cherokee and IH, were legally extremely shaky (as IH shows in the MSJ)

Filing Rossi v. Darden was a colossal error on Rossi's part, and I'm looking at the role of Annesser in this. Annesser apparently encouraged Rossi and Johnson to refuse the December visit to Doral, requested by IH. Apparently he encouraged Rossi to refuse to assign a patent in January or February, 2016.

A new lawyer, wet behind the ears, trying to play David against a Goliath. Most Davids end up mashed. If you are going to shoot the King, don't miss. I can imagine, now, a Rossi lawsuit against Silver Law Group for legal malpractice, after the smoke clears from Rossi v. Darden.

Not only no signature, but deliberate refusal to sign, and Rossi knowledge of this. The Second Amendment was clearly invalid, a proposed document that failed, even though IH had signed off on it. The IH assurances that if the technology was shown to be real, they would pay anyway, were probably true, anyone who knows LENR would be likely to think so. Ampenergo obvious thought that. And with no 2nd Amendment, the IH initial argument that the time had passed for the obligatory payment was actually definitive. But the Judge allowed Discovery to possibly show that there was enough agreement for estoppel. My first reading of the Rossi MSJ appears to accept that Claim I was dead, but first readings can be deceptive. Where is the Wabbit? The smoking gun? Rossi was fishing for it in attempting to obtain attorney-client privileged material. We don't know what that was, specifically, but in several years of communications, some incautious statement, under a belief in privacy where one might say about any damn thing, might have arisen. It seems clear that not only did IH never assure Rossi that Doral was a GPT, IH and Rossi knew it was not, which is then why they allowed that abortion to continue.

Yes. I had speculated more or less along those lines. On Planet Rossi, expect to see the claim that IH is lying. They do not realize just how dangerous it is to lie under oath. I read Rossi's testimony and see few outright lies.

The picture of how IH thought about Doral is clear from IH mails from the time, including confidential memoranda to IH investors. If those were fake, but attested by IH, expect to see prison time, and all it would take is one investor to blow the whistle. Such as, say, Ampenergo, which was a collection of Rossi friends, past supporters, with a financial interest in a successful GPT or equivalent. And they are investors in IH, having converted a small part of their payout to stock.

to assess the evidence in the MSJ, note the legal principle that "testimony (i.e., sworn under penalty of perjury) is presumed true unless controverted. So if a witness said it under oath, it is presumed true, and only if there is contrary testimony that cannot be reconciled with it, will it be set aside -- i.e., it won't be used in an MSJ, though it might be used later in a jury trial, with the jury reconciling conflicts.

Thanks, THH. That is not finished yet, I'll remove the Working Draft from the top when it is. This will then be a core document in an analysis of the IH MSJ, which will then be a part of the overall case analysis. Because the Rossi MSJ is such a mess, I put it off, even though my first desire was to carefully consider all the Rossi arguments first. I don't know what the judge will do, faced with an MSJ with all the exhibit references wrong.

There won't be a decision on this for maybe two or three weeks after the back-and-forth on the MSJs is complete, so there is time.

For me, part of the fun is seeking to anticipate the judge's rulings. Even when I'm wrong, the process then creates a background where I'm likely to understand the rulings.

The only Wabbit Rossi came up with is the Heat Exchanger. Hidden, dismantled, and, so far, all evidence for it is Rossi Says. But he didn't Say when asked on JONP about the heat. So he lied on JONP. Oh, what a tangled web ....

Well, most of those who remain stuck on Planet Rossi were not skeptics to begin with. No examples come to mind. Rothwell was a vocal supporter of Rossi, though mostly privately. He was basing that on reports from people he trusted (some of whom are now known, all those early demonstrations, etc.) -- and this was maintained in spite of Rossi's refusal to allow him to visit because he wanted to bring his own instruments. He knew how suspicious that was, but chalked it up to Rossi's famous paranoia.

However, Rothwell also was the first I saw to point out -- again privately -- the elephant in the Lugano living room, the apparent color temperature of the device, radically inconsistent with the calculated temperature. That the Lugano team did not even consider this showed something very off. Now we know that the "team" was mostly absent, that Rossi was there all the time, not just at the beginning and end, and that whatever Levi said dominated the report. And what Levi said was probably Rossi Says.

Single tests, unconfirmed, are generally inadequate to establish the reality of LENR, and the existence of extensive unreported testing leads to a reasonable possibility of the file-drawer effect, also called confirmation bias. However, there is some LENR research that is not like this, that is not dependent upon a single result (i.e., excess heat) but that also shows correlated nuclear product. It is this work that I identified as most probative on the issue, and apparently a major source of funding agreed, and, while the existing evidence is such as to lead to LENR reality as supported by preponderance, the history of LENR and a strongly established rejection cascade required new work, which will be scientifically beneficial in any case, being measurement with increased precision.

Rossi was a huge distraction from this, and LENR scientists were not prepared for a con artist -- or delusional maniac -- like Rossi. They tend to trust "scientific reports," and not to suspect deliberate deception. That is why the book is thrown at scientists who fake data. Parkhomov really screwed up with his improved plot.

It is not always so, but this is so true of so much research that when it looks clearer, experienced LENR observers suspect a rat. Variability of the effect, unreliability, is, so far, a LENR characteristic. Pseudoskeptics point to this as some kind of evidence that the effects are not real. It is not, but it is certainly reason to be cautious.

Everyone's shit stinks. But I'm not seeing a lot of it. What I see in the Darden emails is cautious optimism, and that is exactly what LENR needs. Cautious optimism does not reject skepticism, rather it embraces it; it merely does not allow skepticism to ruin the creation of new possibilities. It is not denial, it does not assume that negative evidence is necessarily probative. It continues the conversation and exploration.

I am encouraged. IH is massively connected, now, with the LENR research world. They have shown a willingness to work with scientists and inventors far beyond the call of duty. If they abandon the field, it will be a loss, but it looks like that is not their intention. Woodford seems satisfied.

If I'm correct, there will soon be a major research accomplishment, on its way to being published, and I expect LENR funding to explode. IH will be well-placed to surf this.

So to those who think the case makes IH "look bad," something is "smelly," I think they will be crying all the way to the bank. They may not make profits from LENR, directly, and certainly not in the short term, though we might notice that Ampenergo probably did just fine. They were lucky that IH came along. They returned the favor, though I think they were sincere, they were following self-interest in refusing to accept the Second Amendment, even though they would make more money if a GPT succeeded.

We should realize that there may be much more evidence than what we have seen. If it was disclosed in Discovery, it may be used in the trial, if the matter comes to trial. The MSJ is just showing the evidence that IH believes reduces the case to matters of law. I'm not convinced on every point yet, but ... I have not finished documenting the IH MSJ and Statement.

That IH would win the counterclaims with summary judgment is a long shot. The Rossi suit, though, is probably dead meat. No 2nd Amendement allowing a later test, no basis for suit. One can see in the depositions that Rossi's lawyers are angling for a "why didn't you tell Rossi" what Rossi already knew, and obviously.

Or an unclear test result. I find it hilarious that Annesser or Chaiken (I'm not sure which) asked -- was it Smith, the IH expert witness? -- if he was trained in nuclear engineering, as if that would be relevant. This was all following and supporting Planet Rossi FUD, because being a nuclear engineer would convey some relevant education (since nuclear power plants generate heat and must then harness the heat), but not the critical education (steam technology, a small part of nuclear engineering with some kinds of reactors).

Perhaps. They were willing to risk $20 million of their own money -- Darden and Mazzarino and a few friends -- to find out. They found out. As far as was possible, they "crushed the test," which was their goal. With positive results, validated independently, they could raise whatever funding was needed, I'd assume billions of dollars would just be the beginning. But with negative results, the whole Rossi Effect could be set aside, and all the mishegas wasted on it, and research could focus on independently-corroborated or promising findings. We will, in other discussions, look at that.

They accomplished their mission, and the lawsuit is just cleanup, albeit a bit expensive. Environmental remediation is the Cherokee core business, and they are cleaning up the LENR environment.

It is normal on Planet Rossi. We have been seeing this since the filing of Rossi v. Darden. What was not realized was how much evidence IH had. Rossi was able to maintain the lawsuit against the IH Motion to Dismiss because he succeeded in confusing the issues enough that the Judge wanted to wait for Discovery to make a decision. Discovery is the most expensive aspect of litigation, I've seen that assessment. So there is a 7 hour deposition with three or more attorneys sitting there at $350 per hour, and there can be months of this.

Within limits. One runs the risk of boring the judge and jury. However, an MSJ is not for a jury, and judges may well be interested in legal points. I was very skeptical of the "lack of signatures" argument, but I was assuming that Ampenergo had actually accepted the Second Amendment. Then I read the evidence. I had speculated that Ampenergo had probably signed a copy, but Rossi didn't have it. I also knew that, in theory, it was possible that Ampenergo had not signed, but, then, there was always estoppel.

Now we know that Ampenergo not only did not sign, deliberately, but Rossi knew it. Did Annesser know this? Only if Rossi told him. And Rossi may not have told him. If Annesser did know, we might see a Motion for Sanctions later.

I was puzzled at the lack of clear IH argument on the matter of no signatures on a setting of the GPT date. Now I know why. The whole Second Amendment was not valid, period, and clearly so. So the expiration of time was real. However, Rossi still had leverage, but instead of using it to negotiate with IH for an actual test, he used it to set up a phony, Rossi In Charge demonstration, lying to them about Johnson Matthey, etc.

What a waste of time, when one could be studying Rossi v. Darden! But better late than never.

(Seriously, my sedentary habits turned a healthy 70 into a teetering 72. I'm now active reversing that. Enjoy those hills! Besides, you may think more clearly when you do sit down.)

Yes. Reviewing discussions. I see two Planet Rossi views :

• Rossi is a genius, savior of the world, and IH is a bunch of evil, blood-sucking venture capitalists -- said with lots of spit.
• Rossi is a brilliant inventor but quirky, and lied, all for a good cause, of course, making the test happen. IH is lying too, so it's a draw on the moral front.

Then there are the comments about Dewey Weaver. On ECW and sometimes on LF, the opinion is expressed that nothing Dewey says can be relied on, because it's been proven that he lied. Yet this "proof" is never actually cited, the most I have seen is one possible error, of no major consequence. And many times I have checked out what Dewey Says, and it checked out. Many aspects of the lawsuit were first revealed by Dewey. Some aspects have yet to be confirmed.

One of the problems with LF is that rules are not clear, and for free and complete discussion, identities can matter. It's actually a difficult issue.

There used to be an accessible TOS. I couldn't find it, looking now. At one point, a mod asked the community for input on a civility policy, and then a policy was written that largely ignored the input. And that was then almost totally unenforced. Except when a mod wanted to ban someone, then the mod could look for an excuse, even though nearly everyone was violating the policy. Even though some moderators were violating the policy.

Sure, it's easy, Alain. Just shut yo mouth.

In practice, "idiot" is never "factual." It is simply common speech, and may or may not be unacceptable uncivil in context. I was first banned on LF because a troll wrote about my mention of a conference many years ago that I organized, and asked, "Why do I believe that drugs were involved?" That was grossly uncivil. I responded with the reason: "Because you are an idiot." "Asshole" might have been more accurate, or "Troll" would actually get closer to neutral analysis. So I was banned. The troll was not. This was taking posts out of context, ignoring context, it is a classic moderator error.

My later "permanent" ban had no excuse.

Jed has acknowledged visiting IH in North Carolina. Dewey, of course, is openly an investor and consultant for Industrial Heat. And I have actually talked with Dewey, once in person at ICCF-18, and on the phone. I have not been paid, and have not asked to be paid. My expenses have been covered, by others not connected with IH or APCO, though known in the field.

Some of the possible Rossi socks seem different to me, though repeating the same Planet Rossi arguments, wildly disconnected from fact. And then there is the possibility that a sock is then turned over to someone else by giving them the password. That happens. Whether it has happened here, I don't know, but it could explain some of what has been seen. Rossi definitely uses socks on JONP to ask questions that he wants to answer, or to make statements he wants to attribute to someone else. Someone has mentioned that this has been admitted. I have not noticed this, a reference to the document would be useful. Rossi was asked, in an interrogatory with obligatory answer under penalty of perjury, to disclose all alternate internet accounts, but whether or not the answers have been made public, I don't know.

He was more than annoying. He was a caustic, racist conspiracy theorist, attempted doxxer without relevance, and drove away Thomas Clarke. Others have picked up and repeated his wild claims, as if fact.

In the training, to move beyond being an asshole one must admit being an asshole.

The Playground was intended for "off-topic posts." That was quickly translated to "anything goes." Except spam, of course, everyone admits that spam should be nuked. Even spammers don't argue with that.

So the Forum ends up hosting libel. Way to go, guys. As to doxxing, that originally referred to providing real-life information for accounts intended to be anonymous, and anonymous accounts were not called "socks" unless there was more than one participating in some discussion (i.e, pretending independent support that was only "puppet theater.") . Detecting and banning true socks involved a level of invasion of privacy, but this was considered necessary. That is, by pretending to be more than one person, one abandoned the right of privacy. Mary Yugo did this long ago, and Rossi has done it frequently. Real names were generally still protected (on WMF wikis), unless one of the multiple accounts was real-name.

I allow doxxing on coldfusioncommunity, for now, until there is a community process to review administrative actions and decisions. The obvious may be mentioned. However, user IP information, visible to me as admin, will not be revealed except in one case: clearly abusive posting (such as impersonation, which has happened), not mere expression of unpopular opinion, will not be protected, because sharing that information will assist other admins on other sites to identify trolls. which may shift admin response. As well, a trolling target deserves to know more about who is attacking. Trolls will not be automatically banned, but encouraged to participate in genuine conversation; continued trolling behavior will be sanctioned, after clear and violated warning.

Because nobody is being actually banned, it is not necessary to dig deeper than IP into user agent string, which is visible to those with root server access, and which tends to identify the specific computer being used.

People should be aware, though, that anyone can get a subpoena for server records, with that identifying information. To avoid this could require using an open proxy, which then, on some sites, will be banned.Most abusive socks don't bother; however, the situation for socks gets tougher when real-life identities are revealed, i.e., doxxing may be needed to protect the community.

Behind the scenes, I was informed that the reason my ban became permanent was that I revealed the identify of a user. However, that identity was blatantly revealed by LF history, was obvious, and was obvious in that way because of the user's behavior, the hiding of identity was thoroughly clumsy, and remains so. The user himself doesn't seem to be bothered, and has never requested that I remove such information (which would be considered, and which request should be private, for obvious reasons.) Remember, I was a WMF administrator, very active, both as an admin and in reviewing admin behavior. I dealt with socks and doxxing, extensively.

He didn't, he posited a conditional claim. However, I'm sure it could be arranged.

There are some Rossi socks, it's quite apparent, and someone who points it out is not ipso facto anti-Rossi. Some who strongly dislike Rossi, though, may suspect a Rossi sock that isn't.This is not common or widespread.

Those who are regularly called anti-Rossi on this forum are not working for IH, beyond Dewey Weaver, who is openly an investor in and contractor for IH. Even less for APCO. While, in theory, anything is possible, as to a practical reality, it is quite implausible that IH and ACP and "Big Energy" would be spending money on this quite minor site. If were Wikipedia,maybe this could be looked at. Large corporations have been known to spend money for influence there..

This kind of "both sides are doing it" is hysterical nonsense. They are not equal, just as Jed Rothwell, when opinionated, is not equal to some random user. Real people with real reputations and long-term involvment are not equal to anonymous trolls or generators of drive-by snark.

You can follow Eric's link, which goes to a page very difficult to read, but you can also look at the docket page on coldfusioncommunity.net, -- or I could give the URL for the file itself, but it's very easy on that docket page to see what everything is and then load whatever page one wants.

but who knows the full ciircumstances? Sifferkoll wasn't there. On whom is he relying? That email was blatant, and appears to be part of an attempt to defraud IH by pretending that the test was a deliberate failure, don't worry about it was Rossi's message, also. But he was admitting a fraud against Hydro Fusion, creating a fake failure so that they would give up on their agreement with him, because it seems he imagined that IH wouldn't want him dealing with Hydro Fusion. But they actually didn't care, it was not their territory, their license was not exclusive and Hydro Fusion was an existing licensee. There was no real issue. Most likely: the test actually failed and Rossi was just trying to explain that away.

So how would this be resolved. Of course there is more than what the email said. But what? I've never seen anything from Sifferkoll on this point, and he is here, quite clearly, avoiding it. If he has confidential information, that he cannot reveal, he could state that. But remember, he was attacking Dewey Weaver.

Sifferkoll may be telling the truth. "From his perspective," it does not reflect on Rossi credibility. Then again, his perspective is coming from a narrow, dark place.

sigmoidal doesn't fall over and play dead.

Sorted out in person by whom? That Rossi email was written to IH, and I'm quite sure that IH noticed the implications. In the mail, Rossi acknowledges faking a (negative) test. But the story as told by Mats Lewan was very different. Rossi argued with the Hydro Fusion experts. Something was fake somewhere, but where?

Sifferkoll's answer is like the Wizard of Oz saying "don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain."

I think Dewey is sincere here. Magnus Holm is the major shareholder in Hdyro Fusion, Ltd. Company filings. The last news on the Hydro Fusion web site is more than a year old, glowing, happy over the Woodford investment, and the Huffington post: "They also reported that Rossi’s customer has “significantly lower utility bills” since using the industrial E-Cat. What we now know was that the "customer" was Rossi, not even bothering to wear a different hat. Axel Magnus Holm appears to have invested about GBP 750,000 in Hydro Fusion, which has assets far less than that, including a large value for "intangible assets." Like possibly a license. Rossi v. Darden was not good news for Hydro Fusion, far from it. Even if the technology had been real. It appears that Dewey knows something about what is happening with Holm. Fact? Rumor? It's not important enough to ask Dewey.

Loss of scientifc reputation. There is already a sign of a problem in the Rossi - Gullerstrom paper, it does not give his institutional affiliation. He may have asked for permission and it was refused. The problem is not actually with "Uppsala" as such, but with the Swedish scientists -- with Levi and Foschi -- who allowed their reputations to be abused by Rossi. The Lugano test paper was misleading, in addition to being very incorrect as to how temperature was measured, and lacking calibration that would have shown the problem.

Sifferkoll avoids the question about Hydro Fusion. Uppsala and Gullstrom, a PhD candidate there, are in trouble, long-term. At this point there is no clue that Sifferkoll has been reading the court documents, though by reading them with blinkers on, one might be able to cling to some shred of hope.

This is classic Sifferkoll. He assumes that whatever Dewey says is fantasty. Maybe. However, not too likely. It might be exaggerated, it might be overextended, but there is almost certainly something real that he was talking about. Sifferkoll is myopic.

Dewey does give some hints. Ascribing causation is dicey here, unless he's seen court documents.

It will be no surprise that Alan bans Dewey. (I have not actually rechecked the ban notice that I think was posted, and if Eric did it, that would be a very different matter. That is how to properly handle an insult of a moderator. Let another moderator handle it. But these people have no concept of recusal.

For Alan Smith, the obvious obvious ("Planet Rossi") is prohibited. Yet various insults against Dewey Weavere, Jed Rothwell, and others, are routinely tolerated. "Planet Rossi" simply means those who follow Rossi, who think like him or in support of him. It is not insulting in itself. But Smith is not sophisticated. He doesn't like it and some users don't like it (such as Peter Gluck) so ... he will ban Dewey.

Or the truth. Peter has been, for almost a year, condemning those who simply told the truth. He did this with Gamberale, because Gamberale exposed the error -- or fraud -- in Defkalion work, and Peter was a strong supporter of Defkalion. Peter has been calling honest reporting of experience and opinion "nasty."

That's a "disturbed place."

The judge treated it as a discovery dispute. Maybe. Maybe she was having a bad day.

It's possible. Back when Rossi v. Darden was young, an attorney sent me an email with one word: "spoliation." This was over Penon removing the instrumentation. The later removals by Rossi were as bad or worse. Fabiani may have completely screwed himself by deleting those files.

It's the cover-up, stupid.

What he needs to comfort him while he's banned: A troll comforter.

Peter doesn't read the documents in the docket. It's far too much for him; he does not understand most of it.

1. Dewey is not fighting the case. He is mostly an observer, but was deposed.
2. Hence "he" is not winning, but it's obvious that IH is, though "perfectly" would be a strange claim. Win some, lose some. Overall, IH appears to me likely to win completely as to the Rossi claims, and has a running chance of winning some or even all of the counterclaims. The first may happen with Summary Judgment, but I'm still studying the document. The second is less likely to win that way, may require a trial.

This could be introduced as a story of what IH did once fraud was suspected. A witness for IH would testify that he or she reviewed IR images, and found nothing standing out. It's too late to assert an IR thermography expert, probably, but IR evidence has been used, if I'm correct, for cultivation of marijuana violations. This could not be introduced at all if it was not disclosed in discovery. However, it would be introduced as sworn testimony, possibly supported with exhibits.

Tactical considerations....

Alan did ban Dewey. But Eric (probably) banned Wyttenbach.

sic. Rossi tried to get the tax issue struck or dismissed. He failed. It's still there. We will see what happens.

On LF, apparently, "Moderator" doesn't see IP addresses. "Administrator" does. However, then, we have a moderator saying that if he is called a troll, the user will be banned, and we know that he means that he will do the banning. On Wikipedia, if an administrator (who cannot see IP information for registered accounts) would likely lose his admin privileges if he made that threat. A Wikipedia administrator threatened me with enforcement if I violated the ban that he had declared. I was fascinated, so I violated it (with a truly harmless edit in every other way). He blocked me.

He lost his tools over this. He had been very popular, but supporters scattered when he did that.

That, in itself, is not how I ended up banned on Wikipedia. Rather, that admin had friends, and they went for revenge, long-term, and Wikipedia is largely defenseless against significant factions ... and this faction had maybe two dozen active members, including several administrators.

Again, inviting Sifferkoll to continue with what might well be off-topic. I sympathize with Eric, but ... what does it take to guide a community? The whip? How about leadership that inspires them to do what will benefit all?

As long as the goal is "getting them" to "behave," it will fail.

Violating the request, thus inviting Weaver to continue.

Ah, but all's well that ends well.

It is more or less the communist ideal, which broke down when they disrespected private property, which then violates basic instincts. Natural consequences: if you don't do something useful for others, society will not do something useful for you. However, this idea that we "have to work" is common and nonsense. We work if we choose to, unless someone is holding a gun to our head. And we have this amazing ability to enjoy work, so it's play. We choose to enjoy it.

They are, but isn't this off topic?

Moderators need take special care to avoid an appearance of bias. On Wikiversity, as an administrator, I wrote rules for handling emergencies, where the only moderator available and following a situation has a potential conflict of interest. That proposal, while it would have had overall support if taken fully to the community, was crushed by ... a high-level administrator who often acted in conflict of personal interest. Later events showed that the administrative corps did not want any restrictions on its own actions.Classic. In other fora, in fact, this was called the Lomax effect, because I'd documented and explained it. It is a variation on the Iron Law of Oligarchy. The Iron Law is so-called because it will always happen, but there are ways to harness it.

At one point on LENR Forum, moderators would move irrelevant posts to another thread, or even delete them. The latter is not a great idea, unless the text is copied and made available to the author. But what happened is that moderators stopped doing this. Too much work, too many trolls and even regular participants who go way off-topic. There has been no coherent attention to this.

Basic moderation rule: do not clutter up discussions with moderator chat. Set aside another place for complaints and suggestions. Set up appeal procedures. Using regular forum discussions to warn users is poor practice. Rather, private message first. Then, unless the user requests privacy, private notice plus a public notice, in a place for that. Log bans, giving cause and appeal procedure. Set up an administrative mailing list to handle such issues. Ideally, that list is publically visible, if not publically writeable. (Public posts woujld be moderated, with clear rujles).

How about the median moderator? If anyone wants to discuss how LF is being run, it can be done on coldfusioncommunity.net, and I have just opened up this annotation possibility. Anyone can do this, and it does not disrupt the flow of ordinary conversation on LF. On Wikiversity, I created refuges for the banned. A few used them, and that is still going on. I stopped working on that when I realized that the wiki structure remained unreliable, and what seemed safe was not necessarily so.

Structure and frfeedom are not in intrinsic conflict.We can have it all.

Problem is, he could, if relevance to Rossi v. Darden could be shown. Dewey could also make it relevant to a lawsuit by filing one, he's been libeled enough, and that would lead to a classic claim. "Planet Rossi" is a way of describing a quite obvious faction. It is not an insult in itself, unless being associated wtih Rossi is an insult, and those who are called "Planet Rossi" generally don't think so. Smith's suggestion is an attempt at thought control.

Dewey was banned, but I'm not sure exactly when. LF doesn't provide logs and a record is not compiled.

Trolling. And he was banned.

We now have far more information, from the depositions, as to the sequence of events in the IH/Rossi relationship. At this point it appears that Rossi knew, in advance, that the GPT could not be performed without explicit approval, and Ampenergo was refusing to sign. So Rossi created a faux customer and a faux GPT, lying about it all then and continuing to mislead and misrepresent in his Complaint. Why didn't they tell the poor Andrea that it wasn't a GPT? Because they did tell him, just not in writing and not in the first parts of this faux test. Now Rossi is suddenly talking about slaving away in extremely hot, uncomfortable conditions, something that managed to escape notice before. Peter's confidence in Rossi has been betrayed, but Peter is blaming everyone else.

A huge pile of documents revealing actual fact or admissible testimony was dropped on the Court last week. There is a lot to read. I'm studying the documents, creating study tools. That takes time, but in the process, I keep finding more and more amazing facts. It's tempting to push each one. Mostly, I'm not. As people discover just how deeply and clearly Rossi lied, they write about it. Some might froth a little at the mouth....But Rossi created all this with his massive and extensive deceptions.

Rionrlty is not a Rossi sock, but has swallowed the Rossi Line, witih hook and sinker. He might as well be a troll, and has been banned. Rothwell is an expert on the Pons and Fleischmann history. He knows and I know what happened then, and it doesn't resemble what is going on with Rossi at all.

This is what we'd expect from Rossi, these are claims he makes in court, presented here as fact. The Magistrate did not buy the "bribery" idea. The evidence doesn't support it. Uzi Shaya, if the sworn declaration is the truth, was a private investigator looking for information, not exactly an agent of Darden, but hired by Zalli.

Opinion on LENR Forum is going to have no effect on the lawsuit, and Rossi Says is not accepted there. Rossi has claimed that Darden raised large sums, but has been unable to document it, beyond the $20 million originally invested by Darden and friends, and then the $50 million invested by Woodofrd in a place where Rossi can't touch it, which must burn him no end.

The lawsuit is exposing many, many lies told by Rossi over the years. It's not in question any more. Rossi lied, the most obvious one was the fake customer, supposedly independent, which he actually totally controlled.

Funny, ele has not been banned. Maybe they don't want to ban an actual Rossi sock.

Darden raised $20 million from a close group of friends. That is all that was involved with Rossi, there is no sign that any significant money from Woodford went to Rossi activities. joshg is inventing $250 million, that is even more than Rossi -- without evidence -- claims. So the reality of the Rossi investment (about $20 million) is increased by joshg to more than ten times that. APCO is not involved in LENR Forum discussions, there is zero evidence of that.

AnotherTroll was banned. Obvious why. Rossi is speaking out, all right. As a result we can see exactly what he did, what was hidden has been revealed.

This is standard Mary Yugo. "She" pays no attention to the voluminous evidence being developed, but has strong opinions about it. Woodford money did not go to or support Rossi.

If IH had done what Mary would recommend, they would have accomplished nothing. Rossi would still be confusing many. As a result of IH's persistence, Planet Rossi has shrunk and almost disappeared. It's not over yet, as this is written, but the end is reasonably obvious.

IH (and Woodford) did extensive research before investing. Mary Yugo is a retured has-been, who has no understanding of what Industrial Heat actually did. Darden and Mazzarino, and a few others, first of all, invested their own money, not Fund money. Major Fund money only came in with Woodford, and that money did not go to Rossi, nor, in fact, to Industrial Heat, but to IH Holdings International, which Woodford has good access to, it being formed locally for them in the U.K.

They knew about Rossi's past, that is obvious from the Agreement. Mary Yugo has not bothered to become actually informed, but keeps repeating the same tired narrative

This is concern trolling. The poor investors lost money. But they actually gained something, and Mary Yugo has long been unable to understand what is outside the box "she" lives in. Financially, they are doing fine. The Magistrate just made a joke about it.

As I recall, I have confirmed Bob's claim here. Now, will Wyttenbach apologize or provide a source for the claim? Shall I hold my breath in anticipation?

It appears that Ampenergo deliberately did not sign the Second Amendment allowing the GPT to be postponed, and Rossi knew this. Rossi, then, knew that the GPT was impossible unless IH created a side-agreement (they certainly could have done that). But Rossi wanted to force the issue, to create another of his "masterpieces."

Yeah, mine too. Wait! I forgot to send the invoice. Never mind.

Well, with high confidence, meaning high reliability and control, maybe. There are details to consider. $89 million is a lot for something not ready for commercialization, but under some conditions, yes, definitely. COP 1.1 should be possible to convert to self-sustain, i.e., infinite COP, with appropriate engineering. Cost would be a factor, though.

And when they hired a sophisticated engineer, being not quite so gullible and incompetent and maybe even the reverse, Rossi decided the engineer was a spy, and actually says that in his formal Answer to the countercomplaint. No Snakes or Spies allowed where Rossi is At Work.

After all, the spy might tell IH what is actually happening.

He was practically begging for it. Anonymous trolls have nothing to lose.

The biggest problem with bans as they exist on LF is that the user cannot edit or remove their own content. All log-in is disabled. The user cannot read their private Messages. hence there should be a preliminary step: "We are restricting your use of the Forum for for a period. However, as a courtesy, we are leaving your account unbanned. Do not use this account for anything other than to access content and to correct your own harmless errors or to delete your content. If this is violated, your account will be banned."

While a user might violate that -- true trolls are very likely to viiolate it -- then they are responsible for having been banned, having violated a clear warning. If they want to complain, they have places they can do it, many of them.

Rigid compared to what? I've been a moderator at newvortex for many years and nobody has been banned (In spite of Mary Yugo's claims). Nobody has been banned from coldfusioncommunity.net.

To be sure, it could become necessary, but for communities that depend on discussion, bans should reflect community consent. It's true that an owner has rights, but if the intention of the owner is to serve the community, the owner will consult the community and will be responsive.

I am not banned on E-Cat World, but am on moderation, even though rejections have been very, very rare. Moderation is a relatively harmless device. If I were to flood ECW with posts the owner dislikes, I'd expect to be banned, but Bob's story reflects an owner who may have been having a bad day...

LENR forum process is far from transparent. The process for choosing moderators and administrators is hidden. There are factions in the staff. Finding two moderators to agree on a ban would probably not be difficult. But does the staff represent the community of readers (no), or the community of those who contribute content (no). To whom are moderators and administrators responsible?

Legally, the owner, but what is the owner's position on all this? He isn't saying. He is not a major contributor, nor does he openly resolve disputes.

Alan is the Bully-in-Chief. I've seen nobody else actually bully anyone. Eric is warning, part of his job as moderator.

This is called "concern trolling." It's highly provocative. This is indeed, the "Playground." It's a bad idea, when it's moderated by the same people, and hosted by the same owner, found on the same site, with the same Unread Posts display and the same user set.

Some have lasted a long time. More difficult are those who both contribute value and troll for outraged response. One of them is a moderator. Not once, ever, have other moderators restrained him. Behind the scenes, staff is badly divided, apparently. And nobody talks about it ... except I have been, on coldfusioncommunity.net and now with hypothes.is annotation, and others may join. These annotations are only seen by those who choose to see them.

Siffferkoll was a highly offensive troll, for a long time, and was not sanctioned. He created many of the false memes that keep circulating on Planet Rossi, with "research" that sees a stick and calls it a snake.

Eric is trying to bring some order. It's difficult in the absence of clear rules. Eric is pointing out an obvious consideration: someone who violates civility and who does not "forward the conversation," is useless to the forum community. Someone who violates civility and is activly contributing might get a pass. My opinion is that the "pass" would not mean that incivility is tolerated, but that the person is worth warning, with clear consequences that can be anticipated and with this being made reliable. When it is erratic, unreliable, and unevenly enforced, we have a certified mess.

Bob is incorrect. The parties may present parts of documents, that they consider relevant. The depositions, in particular, are enormous; a few of them are presented intact, the whole deposition, but mostly excerpts are presented. This can be cherry-picking, but in the process that ensues, the other side can supply the context if it matters. Redactions are a different matter. The ones I see are blacked out. That is not necessarily a court seal. If a document is sealed, it will not be readable for us, but only to those with court authorization. Bottom line, the court is only making decisions on the visibility of documents when requested. The normal process is that the parties decide what to include as exhibits.

It is obvious that anotherTroll is a sock puppet of another troll.

There is apparently sworn testimony that Woodford committed an additional $150 million if needed. That "simple explanation" is simple-minded (as if investors like Darden have bundles of cash sitting around -- or are paralyzed. No, they raise money when it is needed. If the problem were cash on hand, IH could surely have negotiated for partial payment, and, in fact, there was a provision for that in the agreement, as I recall

That the Doral test was almost certainly not the GPT was obvious from the Complaint. Crucial evidence was missing, and has not appeared, only vague references to a test, not the explicit signed agreement required by the Second Amendment, and the Second Amendment was not signed by all parties, particularly not by Ampenergo, and evidence has appeared that this was deliberate. Ampenergo, Rossi's friends, did not want that Amendment, which is why Rossi could not have remedied the defect post-facto, but filed it as defective. The problem was obvious from the filing, I saw it and wrote about it. However, maybe IH had actually consented somewhere, which is why this was not resolved with the IH Motion to Dismiss. Now we know. There was no consent to a GPT, this is all Rossi Says.

Hey, I'm the New Age, my first teacher actually wrote a book, "This is the New Age, In Person," and Jed Rothwell is sometimes a beknighted curmudgeon. However, he is also an expert on all things LENR, world-class, even though he is "only" a writer and LENR librarian. Librarians learn a lot.

The real New Age isn't each and every stupid idea. It's humanity waking up.

Wyttenbach is consistently off-point. If it is the case that Bob actually is associated with IH, it would increase interest in his comments. From what I know about Bob, though, Wytttenbach is spreading FUD.

Classic for trolls: "Your comment is not worth replying to," thus demonstrating utter hypocrisy, since the troll has commented.

(Wyttenbach is actually a math PhD, which goes to show just how important degrees are.)

Rionrlty may be sincere, but he is a consistent Planet Rossi troll. No evidence provided. Dewey Weaver is a consultant for IH, but also an investor, and we don't know if he is paid more than expenses, and, further, he is not paid to comment on blogs, there is no evidence for that, it is pure "insinuation." The idea that some are being paid to attack Rossi is a standard Planet Rossi trope, very commonlly asserted. It's claimed that I've been paid, and I certainly know that I have not. It's claimed that Jed Rothwell is paid, and he is a long-time philanthropist for LENR and his comments, while opinionated, are his opinions, he is nobody's puppet. Etc.

Classic here: the actual alleged comments are not linked. Rather an obviously hostile summary is presented. That is what trolls do.

There has been much speculation about the pipe size, for multiple reasons. Most of it has been prefaced wtih "if."

What pipe? It matters!

The Murray deposition is a very detailed document, though much of it is wrangling by the Rossi attorney, trying to catch Murrray in some error. A common tactic: ask Murray if it is possible that he could be wrong about this or that. Murray doesn't take the bait. Of course it is possible. Anyone can make a mistake, and someone who believes they could not possibly be mistaken is not a genuine expert. Murray just says, "Yes." But sticks to his testimony.

The deposition is here. - all 423 pages. It's PDF text, so it is searchable. There are five hits for "DN40."

1. Steam side valve 2,3. Steam side DN40 pipes feeding a larger pipe 4.5. ditto, steam side, inside reactor.

For DN80, there are two hits. 1 Flanges on flow meter.

1. The main steam pipe "suspected" to be DN80,

The DN40 reference mentioned by Wyttenbach probably comes from the infamous Exhibit 5, where it appears that Murray was repeating what Penon had told him, or simply made a mistake. However, the DN80 issue with the flow meter flange creates increased possibility for the meter to not be full of water. Reading the Murray deposition I find comments with enormous implications for the lawsuit. No wonder Rossi is trying to get it tossed out! However, Murray may have been entered as an "expert" -- and comes across as one -- but he was also the IH engineer that Rossi refused entrance to, the first sign of a major rift in the IH/Rossi relationship, in July, 2015. If the court decides not to allow Murray as "expert," his testimony would still be admissible as the engineer for IH. And IH would likely obtain another expert, or simply rely on Smith. I find Murray very, very believable. His caution and readiness to admit possible error increase his apparent probity.

Belief in Planet Rossi is associated with a strong ability to read minds. That is how they know that Rossi is real. They have mental capacities far exceeding the norm.

It's a bit more complex than that. On the face, yes, Rossi viiolated the limit. IH did not. But IH filed separate documents, The MSJ, at 30 pages meeting the limt, and then the Support, 15 pages of supporting paragraphs.also at the limit. Rossi's MSJ includes pages of alleged facts with numbered paragraphs. So this is actually a combined document, and the sections are within the limits. It's a formal error, not a substantial one, but the judge may decide that she doesn't like the form. This is not the worst problem with the Rossi MSJ. The misumbering of Exhibits is glaring. And the constant relilance on the exclusion of IPH claims based on the unconfirmed complaint about a fatal 30(b)(6) defect, that will presumably will have been remedied shortly, makes mincemeat of the MSJ.

link to page

Ah, THH, your words can be delicious.

Unfortunately, Rossi's MSJ, as it stands, doesn't have a snowball's chance in a megawatt-heated warehouse, Rossi's private hell. I'm prepping a study of the IH MSJ, and it's a lot stronger. However, there are parts I dislike, and I won't refrain from pointing those out.

We have seen enough to know that IH realized and considered both outcomes as possible. At their level of operating, investors do not "gamble." Rather, they estimate probabilities, trusting their ability to do that. If something is possible but not probable, most of the time it will fail. They know that, but they trust their own intuition. That's their bread and butter, their intuition.

That intuition was. I'm sure Dewey would agree, that this wouldl generate value, one way or another. Yes, at times they had high hopes, because at times there was a successful creating of appearance, but they did not fall down and give Rossi everything, they kept trying and testing and checking results.

ROTFL. I stopped studying that Motion because it is so badly defective that it will likely be moot quickly, replaced with a new version based on a number of causes -- if the Judge lets them. The evidence is all based on a translation of "test" to "guaranteed performance test." What joshg is ignoring is the evidence that Rossi knew that Ampernergo was refusing to sign the Second Amendment deliberately. IH was treating it as a kind of test, but would never have agreed to it as a GPT, to unconditionally trigger an $89 million payment, not under the Doral conditions, and that's obvious. This is the simple fact: without successful replication of the technology, able to pass truly independent testing, IH would not be able to raise the $89 million. With it, easy-peasy. Rossi created his own failure by refusing to simply deal in good faith with IH, and this is totally obvious in the documents, overall.

This has nothing to do with "angels."

The video shows how to avoid damage to a pressure gauge from exposure to steam, which could melt the pressure sensor. If that happened to the Rossi gauge, that would explain 0.0 bar for every reading. That the pressure gauge may have been over rated temperature would, then, be a failure mode in the Penon protocol.

While this is certainly possible, I haven't seen evidence for it. I hope oldguy will find where he came to this understanding. The actual $50 million was given to IHHI in May, 2015, whereas Woodford reps had visted Doral in February. They might have previously invested in IH itself, but I kind of doubt it.

Yes. That's my conclusion. To most of us, $11.5 million is a boatload of money, insane to think of "wasting" it. But it wasn't that much money to them, and ... the goal was well worth it. This had long been observed about LENR research: even if it was a long shot, the potential value was so great that if one could afford to lose the money, it could be a sane investment. What is one chance in a thousand of making a trillion dollars worth? I'm sure Alan could do the math. Anyone smart enough to love a metallurgical microscope is smart enough for that, but something has happened to Alan's metaprocessing. Maybe he will recover.

Pure Alan Smith. I've been looking back at what Smith wrote early on, when Dewey Weaver appeared on Mats Lewan's blog. Alan Smith was very much Planet Rossi. I think he identified this as a losing position, but ... he still believes many of the PR tropes. Here, the trope is that the goal of Darden was to get Rossi to hang himself. No. His goal was twofold, and brilliantly simple: first, if Rossi had a real technology, to give him what he needed to demonstrate it, and then to make a ton of money by commercializing it. And if he did not, to find out as much of the truth as possible, instead of just jumping to conclusions because of suspicious behavior. Once IH decided to tolerate the Rossi quirks -- and they clearly made that choice by 2012 -- the rest followed, until it was Rossi that truly ended it by insisting on controlling the Doral site, excluding the IH engineer, and insisting on it being the GPT, even though Rossi knew that Ampenergo was deliberately not signing that amendment allowing postponing the test. Without Ampenergo consent, there was no GPT. If Ampenergo had unreasonably refused, Rossi could have made a separate agreement with IH. Instead, he took the horns by the bull.

Well, they made mistakes, both scientific, but more to the point, social. However, I agree with the comment in general, because the mistakes they made were under pressure, and not intended to deceive, beyond some hiding of fact that they believed would be misunderstood. That's a huge story, part of the ultimate History of Cold Fusion. It really was the "scientific fiasco of the century," -- Huizenga's book subtitle. Cold fusion is real and it is not impossible that Pons could get a Nobel Prize, though it is more likely to go to someone who explains it, which has not yet been done, to my knowledge. That Pons abandoned the field does not bode well for that Nobel.

You know, folks, you could give direct page-jump links. Try it. It's easy. This one.

There is a product, epoxy-based, called Durapox. This is just ordinary old-man confusion with the real name of the material, Durapot. What was remarkable was the sock on JONP repeating the error. Clues, anyone?

See comment and study on coldfusioncommunity.net. Without evidence, this could be highly misleading. The cited reference does not support the claim.

Black and white thinkers abound. Option A: businessman with poor judgment who makes billions with risky investments, and who came out cash way ahead by taking the Rossi Risk. "Poor judgment" means "not what I would do." Obviously! Option B" Ulterior motive." Like what? Making money? He's done that, amply. Burying the technology? How could he possibly do that if Rossi were not a Compleat Idiot? If he had legitimate misgivings and did not share them with Woodford, he'd be risking a very nasty lawsuit from an investor with deep pockets. We have no information confirming any investment with IH from the Chinese.

Shallow thinking from shallow minds, knee-jerk, but ... common.

Zeus46 has been very sarcastic about coldfusioncommunity.net, so it is totally understandable that he would not simply look at the docket page there, which is annotated, and use browser search to find documents.

No, "might withdraw" would be accurate from the new source quoted, which affects one agreement, which might be replaced by a new one. Total withdrawal is unlikely.

This is Krivit citing himself. The articles he wrote do not make the case he claims. 700 MW was an overstatement of total input power to the entire JET facility, not input power to the reactor itself. It is a complex issue reduced to sound bites by Krivit. There is no sign that he reported of anyone actually being misled by the alleged "misrepresentations," which seem to exist mostly in his imagination.

The source article does not say "intends to leave." Rather, leaving is authorized, not commanded, by what has happened.

It is possible that someone said this. What is "production of power"? If it means system electrical power output greater than system electrical power input (i.e., the plant is self-powered and then provides energy to the grid or some other application), it was never the goal of ITER. This is not what Krivit claims, a change.

It is common for experts to pronounce popular explanations as "bullshit" or the like. I can look at the relevant web sites and find technical errors. "Bullshit." However, notice: the professors disagree with Krivit. All of them. Krivit barges ahead anyway, because there is a rule on Planet Krivit: Krivit is always right, unless someone lied to him.

In one place, someone tried to make the figure of a few megawatts understandable. A few megawatts is enough to power thousands of homes, except for a problem. For how long? And, then, there would be conversion inefficiency. However, none of the explanations that Krivit points to have claimed that "usable power" had ever been produced. It was all about what might be eventually done.

Krivit has created a story of deception without showing that anyone was deceived. Given how many people walk around confused, probably someone did misunderstand. But the explanations Krivit quotes were almost entirely correct and not misleading, unless someone adds Krivit's special meanings in a way very unlikely to have happened in the congressional hearings he reports.

The special definition is Krivit's and it matches neither ordinary meanings nor meanings in standard technical usage.

How does power "go into a reactor"? Through his confusion of definitions, he avoids this issue. In ordinary language, power goes into something when energy is stored there. Power goes into a battery. In this case, input power to the reactor is stored in the reactor, as plasma heat. Because the system must be kept cool, or parts will melt or vaporize, this heat leaks (or is deliberately conducted away). Input power heats the reactor, in short. With JET, only a small part of system power "goes into the reactor," i.e., does work on it, heating it. But Krivit imagines that system power is "input to the reactor," by defining the entire facility as the reactor. But then he doesn't count the heating in the facility as output power, when it is. So with JET, if it were 700 MW system input power during a shot (that's probably too high a figure), total system heat release would be 716 MW, a gain of 16 MW. Of course it wasn't 65% of system input! Nobody ever said it was.

He is completely incorrect. It produced 16 MW of excess power. Nuclear power, fusion power, converted to heat, adding to the input power.

Krivit has not shown what the members believed.

This appears to be incorrect, if there is only 100 MW available to that system. Krivit continues his error of thinking of "consumption" of power. It is all converted to heating power.

Krivit repeats this. It is completely incorrect, using the ordinary and practical meaning of "power," specifically thermal power. JET produced 16 MW of fusion power for a short time. Whatever power we want to consider from the JET facility, 16 MW was added to it. Instead of not "a single watt," it was 16 million times that. This is so thoroughly incorrect that I suspect some of Krivit's correspondents did not understand the depth of his error.

Krivit is using a loose definition of "reactor input power." That energy is not input to the reactor. It sets up and maintains a magnetic field that does not cause fusion, it merely confines it. It does not do work on the plasma. Work is energy and rate of work is power. This is not "input power" to the reactor itself, but to an environmental condition set up. It is only dissipating major power because the method being used is inefficient for such strong magnetic fields, superconducting magnets take this to zero.

He is using "input" here differently than JET uses it. However, it was recognized that he was actually asking about facility power, so he got a response.

By "total input power," Krivit clearly means "total facility power." (He has never attempted to break it all down.) At JET, plasma input power (its effect is to heat the plasma, but it is not applied as heat, it is electrical power, which becomes heat in the plasma) is, during the record run of 16 MW fusion power, 24 MW. What is totaly system power? The 10X figure given by Shaffer may be correct. peak power may be higher, and JET had almost 2000 MW available, for peak power. This can be worked out from public documents. It was never concealed. For the scientific and specific engineering purpose, it was irrelevant, as Krivit was told, over and over.

When there is reporting on, say, LENR experiments, the total system power is ignored. In some "demonstrations," in an attempt to show that there could be no trickery, all input power is considered. That could make sense only in evaluating the overall practical usefulness of a particular device. It is scientifically irrelevant, since this is not input power to the reaction itself. It is particularly irrelevant if a "stable" condition is involved (actually or potentially), such as a magnetic field.

It may seem like a technical point, but power is not consumed in ordinary process. Power can be "dissipated," i.e., converted to heat, generally. Elementary electronics: it takes energy to create a magnetic field, but this is energy storage. The energy is returned when the field collapses. There may be losses in the process, caused by heating in the conductors. This goes to zero with superconducting magnets. This is why ITER has much lower power requirements than JET, even though it is planned for much higher peak fusion power and longer shots.

Krivit is, indeed, describing his own confusion, but is attached to it. He was amazed when he found obvious truth, and then attributed his confusion to misleading statements, which he still does not understand.

Krivit does not show where "they" stated net power values. The concept of "net power" was his imagination. "Fusion power" does not mean anything like net power. He made this up long ago, apparently.

He still is,. as he shows.

"Power to operate the equipment" would be included if it adds energy to the plasma. A thorough analysis of a demonstration plant -- which Krivit has not attempted, simply making up numbers from unwarranted assumptions -- would study what operational power was intrinsic to energy production and what was not. If operational power sets up a condition that is maintained, without additional input, it would not be included. Example: magnetic field using superconducting magnets (ITER). Because JET sets up a field with ordinary magnets, there is necessary continuation power, though much less than setup power, probably. However, because this was known to be replaceable in a practical reactor, it was not considered important. It would not scale with the fusion power release. In fact, even "input power" as reported may not scale. It depends on the cooling rate of the plasma, and, as well, as fusion power increases, this input power would not increase, it might decrease.

In my critique of Krivit's primary article here, I calculate the energy released. For the record 10 seconds at 5 MW at JET, that was 6 KWh, as I recall. Fusion energy, thermal power. That was not 10 seconds of electricity, it was heat.

Liar, liar, pants on fire. Yes, technically, Krivit is probably not lying because he believes -- fanatically - in his own ideas. What is "real thermal power" One watt of real thermal power will heat something at a clearly specified rate. ITER heated the reactor and the insulation (and possibly coolant water, I don't know) with 16 MW of fusion power, for a short time. It was "real thermal power" and it was "fusion power." Krivit's comments are so crazy that his correspondents don't really understand just how off he is, and appear to assume some understanding and cogency. If a fusion reaction takes place, it releases energy. Most of this energy ends up as heat. A Farnsworth Fusor in someone's garage releases "real fusion power," just very little of it, probably too little to measure. Mostly, they are used to make neutrons. (If they made measurable heat, the neutrons would be very dangerous. JET and ITER were designed to capture and safely handle the neutrons (which also carry most of the heat).

Every expert is misleading, according to Steve Krivit. Krivit has set up his own definitions based on concepts coming from practical application, when these experiments were not and are not -- yet -- designed to demonstrate practicality, but "feasibility." JET actually generated 16 MW peak fusion power. That is not scientifically controversial. Krivit then introduces a concept of "net power" which is scientifically confused, and seems to expect experts to have spoken according to his confusion.

Baird is asking the important question that an intelligent lay person would ask. "How long"? That is not the exact definition of ignition, but Baird, at least, knew the term and knew it related to a possible self-sustaining reaction. Synakowski's answer given here was incomplete. But not wrong. If ITER reaches ignition, it might fail immediately. If it stays short of ignition, it will always require some power input. But not necessarily much. Then there will be what it takes to power what could be called "accessory systems," which create a kind of energy overhead. For JET, this was massive electrical input during a shot to set up and maintain the magnetic field. ITER won't need that. Accessory energy does not increase proportionally with output energy, it would be more or less constant. It is not "input power."

Looks to me like Baird knew more than Krivit.

Because it didn't.

For ten seconds. Krivit is right that this was hype. That kind of comparison is used properly to give a nontechnical audience a concept of how much power it is.

When Krivit makes a mistake, he repeats it over and over. Actually, he's correct. Davidson did mean what Krivit describes. The error is that Krivit thinks he has a "special meaning," when the meaning is ordinary.

There are other, similar examples of Krivit's semantic blunders. If we manage to transform deuterium into neutrons, per Widom-Larsen theory, which he promotes, and then these neutrons are used to generate helium, he thinks this is "not fusion." But any process that converts deuterium to helium is fusion as to result, which is what matters and what can be measured. His favored intermediate process is highly improbable, but that's not the point here. The point is that Krivit constantly pushes that those who call :LENR "cold fusion" are wrong, because it is Not Fusion.

His numbers, in hindsight, could be embarrassing, though we don't know the limits of ITER yet. However, the term "fusion power" as used by almost everyone is unambiguous, it means "thermal energy from fusion.". It means power released by fusion. Turning that energy into electricity is another matter. (Baker's statement shows a common unclarity about power and energy. He meant that ITER would produce fusion thermal energy at a rate of X MW. He did not say for how long. 400 seconds would be an impressive advance, but unless it could be repeated with little additional energy investment, still far from practical application.

Krivit might be thinking about electrical power generated. ITER is not designed to generate electrical power. A gigawatt was ambitious, mostly they are saying, more recently, about half of that. ITER, if it has 50 MW plasma power input, and 500 MW of fusion power, would generate at least 550 MW of "high grade heat." For the period of operation that would exceed all system power inputs, some of which might be arranged to generate low grade heat, as a byproduct.

And that is what it meant. So of course she didn't indicate anything different. Energy released by fusion. Krivit has a persistent imagination that it should have some other meaning.He's imprecise about it.

"not ... any ... useful fusion power is true, unless we consider a research result useful. They always, however,"produce" as much or more power than then "consume." Energy is average power times the duration over which it is averaged. Mathematically, energy is the integral of the power over whatever duration is chosen. Or power is the rate at which energy is released or used or work is done. All fusion experiments that succeed in creating the fusion reaction produce "excess power." Krivit is massively confused on this.

JET did improve as Davies predicted.

on a clear day. Whether Davies statement was misleading or not would depend on the context. ITER's objective is to show the possibility (feasibility) of electricity production, by improving the overall systems efficency, but most of all by extending plasma power for longer periods. 10 seconds (JET, about 5 MW) to ITER (planned 400 seconds, about 500 MW) would be a massive advance. Yes, in over twenty years. That's the down side. How close to practical application? Difficult to say. If that trend continues, maybe twenty years, but that could be optimistic. The ;problem is very difficult.

Eating light bulbs, my, my. What does it to with the glass and wire?

Krivit is using a strange definition of "net thermal energy." If we look at instantaneous power, 6 million 100-watt light bulbs will convert 600 MW of electrical power to 600 MW thermal and light power (which mostly ends up as thermal power) If there is 500 MW fusion power generated, the thermal power resulting will not be 100 MW, but 1100 MW. In these documents, Krivit has made this mistake over and over, in spite of attempts to explain the matter to him, some of which he has reported. However, most of his correspondents don't specifically point out the error, but argue other points.

I have used high-wattage lamps to heat a room, in addition to brighly lighting it. Krivit does not understand that fusion power adds to the thermal effect of input power. Instead he subtracts input power from output power to produce a bogus "consumption" of power.

This follows a routine trope: we talk about some device "consuming" so much power. The power "consumption" of a refrigerator may be so much per year. However, all that power ends up as net heat. Power is not "consumed," it is converted. If the goal is thermal power, this process is extremely efficient.

As an example, the input power to the reactor heats the plasma, which then loses heat to the reactor containment. That must be cooled, and the system that cools the containment will also cool the neutron-capture blanket. All the plasma input power ends up heating the cooling system (which can then deliver heat). There are heat losses elsewhere in the plant, heating that just ends up escaping to the environment. Krivit has never understood that power is not "consumed,"

In all the documents I have reviewed from Krivit on this matter, none of them show that "government bureaucrats" relied on the misunderstandings that Krivit asserts about "technical progress." What Krivit has actually shown is that there can be imprecision in language, but that is universally true, outside of narrow technical applications. If the misunderstanding actually happened, Krivit has not shown it.

What is the evidence that this is a "major unsolved issue"? Neutron behavior is extremely well-known.

I never saw it represented as anything else. Krivit ignores statements which contradict his conclusion, and seizes on statements that could possibly be misinterpreted.

So Krivit here makes the same mistake. "Amount of power," to be of relevance, would refer to energy, not peak power. The amount of money I earn in a day by selling stuff is so many dollars. The rate at which I earn that money might vary greatly, from zero, say, most of the time, to as much as a whole day's income in one sale, in a few minutes.

That power is not available to ITER. 600 MW is more than JET facility grid power, which was supplemented with two 700 MW flywheel generators, to provide peak power as needed, for a possible peak power of about 1900 MW. ITER's grid power supply is far lower, and ITER has no local power storage, as did JET, needing that for electromagnet power, which ITER does not need on a continuous basis.

ITER does not dissipate 600 MW of input power. However, if it did, 500 MW of peak fusion power would be generating 1100 MW of "thermal power." Krivit may be correct about Calder's use of language, though he makes the same mistake himself. "Peak" refers to power. Average power for a time is equivalent to energy. Apparently Calder was giving power numbers as if they were energy numbers. Sloppy. But he was probably not a careful scientist, but a writer, with very different training.

The problem here is imprecision on what "ITER" means. The acronym is "International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor." The reactor is a specific object, the place where the reactions take place. The reactor is building into a facility that provides the magnetic environment, injection and plasma maintenance power, and recovers heat in a blanket that captures neutrons. Those neutrons carry away energy from the reactor proper, and they may be considered "thermal power production." They do not contribute much heat to the plasma. Other aspects of the reaction do, and I have not studied the balance. Because there are some with some knowledge writing that ITER may reach ignition, if output power is 500 MW, and if it takes 50 MW of thermal effect in the plasma to maintain temperature, that would work if 10% of the fusion power ended up as plasma power.

However, all input power ends up as heat in the confinement or thermal blanket. In a commercial reactor, that blanket would be cooled with a circulating coolant that would be used to generate electrical power -- or that could deliver heating power. At ignition, input power must be reduced, because increase in temperature will do two things: increase the power output, and increase risk of loss of control of the plasma.

Like Steve Krivit with cold fusion, later translated to LENR per Widom-Larsen theory (which has never been experimetnally confirmed, and it predicts results contrary to experimental evidence.)

A communications officer is enthusiastic about the project. This is considered odd or something wrong?

Right. Sensible. However, what was his job description?

This is extremely unlikely. I do not find Claessens to be completely clear, but there is no sign, so far, of his being given misleading information. He would, I'd assume, have access to the primary sources and could find out for himself, if he was interested. His focus was on something else.

There is possibly a confusion here between peak power and average power. Krivit is relying on an off-hand comment from a professor for "150 MW." The professor is likely talking about power during a shot, whereas average power consumption of the site (under what conditions) would likely be much less. The difference is due to inefficiencies in creating what will end up heating the plasma.

A major accomplishment for ITER would be the release of massive fusion power during a shot, and doing this for 400 seconds would be fantastic. Input power to the beam, to the plasma, as ignition is approached, would be reduced, and it is possible that the 50 MW figure is projected under those conditions. Krivit, with his focus on "misleading language," and his resulting condemnation of ITER spokespersons, was distracted from obtaining the real story, the true power and energy balance figures. Reading around, I find most of the information is available, but Krivit is impatient.

Krivit is then using this for his own purposes. He has not understood what is being said to him. The input power is not "thermal," it is "radiofrequency waves and energetic neutral beams." Both will deposit energy into the plasma, i.e,. will heat it. How the putative "input power" of ITER is calculated, I find obscure. Krivit is relying, for the most part, on summaries written for popular audiences, and off-hand comments from scientists, and what Krivit does is to run with these and I have never seen them, then, confirmed by the scientists as to, Yes, that is what I meant. The professor is talking about specific methods of maintaining the plasma, and if ignition is approached (some think ITER may do this), injected power must be reduced, or the reactor could run away, control. could be lost. The professor is talking about setting up the reaction initially, not about maintenance power, except perhaps under low fusion power conditions,. Neutral beam injection (Wikipedia. When physicists are reduced to sound bites, they commonly are unclear or even misleading.

Claessens repeated himself. However, this is all the manipulation of language. What is the input power? Claessens here is looking at the same power that is called input power by everyone but Krivit. It is not "plant power consumption," because there is a lot going on at the plant which is not the fusion reaction and input power to the plasma. There is an issue of clarity here, and Claessen's point is apparently that there could be more clarity. For example, the record fusion power burst was 16 MW at JET, for about a tenth of a second. Sounds impressive. In fact, given the difficulties that had to be overcome to reach that, it was impressive. However, there was much more energy released in a longer burst, about ten seconds, at something like 5 MW. Now, how much energy is that? A quick and easily understandable measure of it" At electrical energy rates for consumers in the U.S., about $0.60. The big question for ITER is not peak power (in or out). I have little doubt that ITER will beat those records, all of them. However, the issue will be how long fusion power can be sustained. I have seen no estimates. Controlling the plasma for 10 seconds, from JET, is encouraging, but this is all still far from what would be needed for commercial power production. If ITER is being presented as something with a practical payoff for energy production, short term, that would be misleading. But Krivit is so focused on his alleged "special meaning" of "fusion power" that he develops no evidence at all on any actual misleading of decision-makers. I have followed fusion research since I was a child. I never saw it being represented as "just around the corner," it was famously "thirty years in the future," which figure remained more or less constant with the passage of time.

Claessens is not being careful. We can certainly compare them, but like any comparison, it could be misleading in some way. However, the input of 50 MW is used to maintain the plasma, which can be considered "heating power." So so much heating power in, so much heat out.

It is true that if we want to recover electrical power from the fusion power, there would be conversion inefficiency. If the goal of a fusion power plant is electrical power, then, of course, the production of exportable power would require regenerating that input electrical power, using a portion of the generated power. This are all standard engineering considerations. ITER is not a power plant, but, largely because of the use of superconducting magnets, will move toward that. If the plant produces 500 MW of fusion power, does "peaks of 600 MW during the shots" negate that in some way? Not necessarily. Powering up the electromagnets will take a large amount of power, but the issue would be duration of that, compared to plasma fusion power duration. Krivit doesn't begin to approach the real issues of interest. Krivit doesn't understand, it is obvious, that all fusion power is "extra," the input power is not "lost." If ITER were located near a city, it could sell heat, and that can be highly efficient. (Because there is no conversion inefficiency: and conversion inefficiency is inefficient because of heat loss. Krivit has not obtained a clear understanding of the issues, in spite of studying this for some years, and Claessens, if he reads Krivit's comments carefully, will certainly see errors, omissions, and misunderstandings. But he was being friendly. Krivit is well-known for abusing that.

If he confirmed "accuracy" he was utterly ignorant. But he did not. Krivit synthesizes what he wants from what people say.

Cold fusion is a mystery. Krivit, however, began to show his scientific ignorance -- I am not aware that he has any training in the relevant sciences -- by around 2008, attacking scientists -- similarly to how he, here, attacks ITER -- taking strong positions about theory (whereas experts know that no "theory" of cold fusion is established), and using his own specialized definition of "fusion," that then makes everyone else wrong. From his early positive relationships, he had become the major "reporter" on the field, and that was parleyed into publications, which continue. His work has no respect within the field, it only appeals to those who like the idea that it is "not fusion." However, it is known -- and even accepted by Krivit -- that the Fleischmann-Pons effect generates helium, and the only reasonable fuel is deuterium. The reaction itself might or might not be called "fusion," it's a question of definition. The original idea of fusion as Krivit described fusion in this article is almost certainly not what is happening, but there are other possible kinds of fusion.