On 2020-02-03 17:15:55, user ncc wrote:
Hi
Nice setup, and well described. I enjoyed reading the paper. However, I disagree with the overall focus: that high-throughput, or obtaining the maximum number of replicates, is a desirable goal in respirometry.
I have built similar IFT setups, as have *many* others. I would suggest the only really "innovative" aspect of this setup is that you are utilising the downtime during flushes to measure oxygen in different chambers. That is, getting maximum utility out of your 10 channels. However, this is only useful in **very** limited circumstances where the measurement period is comparable in length to the flush period. That is, species with very high metabolic rates and/or at high temperatures.
However, i would question the entire practice of doing flushes so frequently if this is the case. It suggests to me your chambers are not large enough if the oxygen is being depleted so rapidly.
High throughput should not be an end in and of itself if the resulting data are not representative of SMR or RMR. This is especially true of experiments where the specimen may be easily disturbed, as in fish respirometry. Are you absolutely sure your fish were not disturbed by the pumps coming on every 8 minutes, either via increased vibration, sensing the water has been changed, or changes to the water flow patterns? Is the 1 minute of data you exclude from the start of each measurement period sufficient time for the specimen to resume "normal" behaviour after a flush?
I have recently run IFR flow experiments on a fish. These were on a temperate species, in a fairly large relative volume and took roughly 2-3h to show a decrease of around 10%, whereas a flush took 5 minutes. However, we found that for around 2h after a flush, the fish's metabolic rate was still decreasing, that is, it was still elevated and had not yet reached what could be defined as RMR, let alone SMR. As a result we decreased our replicates from 4x 2h replicates to to 2x 3/4h ones, and as a result got much more consistent data. In this case, high throughput, numerous replicates would not have given us a better estimate of RMR, in fact would have provided a much worse one. Every species is different, but i would 100% **always** choose fewer longer duration replicates, than numerous high-throughput replicates as described here.
A few other points:
There is NO fundamental difference between closed and IFR respirometry. IFR is simply having an apparatus that allows for multiple, sequential closed respirometry experiments to be run easily, minimising disturbance to the specimen. They are otherwise identical in nature. IFR respirometry is simply multiple closed respirometry experiments, and comes with *exactly* the same drawbacks that you suggest for "closed" respirometry. How important these are or if they are of no consequence at all depends on multiple factors in the experiment: the organism, water volume, duration, temperature etc, but most importantly the oxygen saturation level the experiment is allowed to reach. It is **completely incorrect** to say closed chamber respirometry is inherently associated with accumulation of nitrogenous waste and carbon dioxide, and increased stress, and that IFR is not. You can have these occur in both methods depending on how low long the experiment proceeds.
The article you cite here (Snyder et al. 2016) is concerned with a completely different question, that of critical oxygen tensions, and the difference between *methods of inducing hypoxia*, either via degassing with nitrogen or via the animals own metabolism. This study is *not* a comparison of these two methods for determining SMR or RMR, but for determining hypoxia tolerance.
I have run many "closed" respirometry experiments over long durations where oxygen decreased by only a few percent, and there was negligible build-up of waste or CO2. Given these experiments allowed specimens to be completely undisturbed for many hours, I would argue this is more likely to provide better estimates of SMR or RMR than any number of high-throughput, replicates that this or other IFR methods may produce.
Whether or not to use closed or IFR methods is a mostly practical question, but fundamentally these methods are exactly the same.
Other comments:
-
You mention no correction for tubing volume. The water volume of each experimental loop consists of the water in the chamber plus that in the tubing in the loop. If this was exactly the same for all chambers then that is an easy correction. However the fact that (according to your schematic) your recirculation pump was at one end of the apparatus suggests a possibility there might have been different lengths for the close chambers than the ones furthest away, which will cause a systemic error. Happy to hear otherwise, but either way it is a necessary correction (i don't see it mentioned in the R script either, but there the volume is 0.375 not 0.300, so maybe this is it?)
-
You also mention no correction for fish displacement volume. Your 300mL chamber does not contain 300mL once you put the fish in. The fish displaces some of the volume, and bigger fish will displace relatively more, so this leads to systemic error across body size ranges. Working from your data sheet, this is anything from 2-8% of the volume (assuming the fish are roughly neutrally buoyant) which would cause a misestimate of oxygen use, directly biased towards larger specimens. Your true "effective volume" is the chamber volume, plus tubing volume, minus fish volume.
-
There are at least two open-source software solutions for conducting and reporting respirometry analyses (full disclosure - i am developer of one of them) which you should mention:
Harianto, J., Carey, N. & Byrne, M. respR -An R package for the manipulation and analysis of respirometry data. Methods Ecol. Evol. 10, 912–920 (2019).
Morozov, S., McCairns, R. J. S. & Merilä, J. FishResp: R package and GUI application for analysis of aquatic respirometry data. Conserv. Physiol. 7, (2019).
These allow investigators to report their analyses transparently and in reproducible form. Investigators who are skilled coders might choose to use their own workflows, but these are aimed at those who are not. I have another package with some utility functions: https://github.com/nicholas...
Please do get in touch if this was useful. Happy to discuss these aspects more!
Regards, Nick