Good epic simile.

I think this means Man has hellish foes before he was even created. Doomed from the start, so to speak.

Their plan is either to destroy God's creation, Man, or seduce them to their own "party," thus causing God to repent that he ever made Man.

Belial's argument seems to be that we should fight as a possible escape from this our new existence. Perhaps, by fighting the all-powerful God in Heaven, he will grant us salvation in non-existence.

Very common argument for those in a losing position. It amounts to "it can't get any worse.

If indeed we are immortal, he says, then worst comes to worse and we will be as we are now in Hell. And even if the best scenario isn't a victory, it can be revenge.

When we think of the machinations of hell, we are thinking of the machinations of war.

As General Sherman noted, "War is Hell." This of course means that, Hell is War. These tossed aside angels have become eternal warriors.

Interesting observation that despair makes on more ferocious.

Satan makes an important argument about hierarchy. That with an throne and power comes inevitable envy and an usurper. There can be no usurper without a throne to usurp.

This was a major theme among the ancient Greeks. The constant overthrowing of kings and gods. Here, Satan jokes that he has a safe unenvied throne, yielded with full consent. Of course, no one yielded this throne, he was tossed aside and simply acquired it.

He argues that in a place "where there is ... no good for whiich to strive," then there will be no strife. No factions to rise up and say "we will be better strivers for the good than you can be!" In a location where the hierarchy goes from pain to increasing amounts of pain, there will be no one who wishes to strive for more pain and evil.

I always find it helpful to keep in mind the dramatic shift in scientific, theologic and philosophic thinking that occurred post Newton.

Newton, in 1687 united Heaven and Earth. For the first time in history, he proved that the laws which governed us on earth were the same as which governed the heavenly bodies. This was an enormous proposition. It either meant that our earthly, low, degrading bodies were as grand as the heavens and angels or that the heavens and angels were actually lowered to the degrading nature of Humans.

Pre-Newton you can read poetry by John Donne and see the view that there is a distinct difference between the heavenly and angelic realm and the human realm.

Post Newton you can read poetry starting with Alexander Pope and you will notice a shift in the worldview that Newton has brought into the world.

As 21st century readers, it may help to keep this fact in mind. In Milton, with the fix't Laws of heaven, he is likely going to imply a fundamentally different set of laws than on earth. Heaven, to Milton and his readers, was not merely a metaphorical location with pearly gates and clouds. It was quite literally the "stuff" that you see above your heads (primarily at night).

They won't fail again.

We are stronger BECAUSE we fell. This is his argument as to why they should try again.

I sometimes get lost in terms of voice. Who exactly is talking. I can tell now that Satan is talking (mostly because of the note for "vertues.")

However, I saw no transition from what I assume was narrative above and this monologue.

This seems to be a textual problem. In the Signet Classic book of Paradise Lost & Paradise Regained edited by Ricks, there are quotations here before "powers and dominions."

It may make it easier to read if those were re-incorporated.

The note for "success" indicates the irony here. Of course, Satan is initiating another war with heaven, one that will be ultimately "in vain." No war with God could succeed. But it seems Satan has been "untaught." He has learned the lesson, and then the lesson has been "unlearned." I am not sure what has untaught him. I suppose, as the text indicates, it is his "proud imaginations" which untaught him.

There seems something psychologically true in that statement. We know today that one definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Yet, how many of us fall for that trap? We try to succeed in business with the same basic value-structures and methods that we tried the last time, when we failed.

There are many cliches in business about failing your way to success, but this has been shown to be a bias. We only hear the stories of those who have succeeded. Many people fail their way to more failure. Perhaps, that is what is occurring here with Satan. "His proud imaginations" gives him visions of success which will be in vain. Yet he will continue.

There is a kind of admirable quality in that. Pursuing despite the inevitability of failure. If you believe you are correct, this should be the only way to proceed. It is the courage to act on ones convictions.

I think of the play Cyrano de Bergerac, where the lead character will fail in all important realms of his life: productive, love and creativity. Nonetheless, to the very end he will not surrender his convictions.

I found this whole section to be very difficult to follow. It felt a lot like the list of ships in Homer. There were so many references I was overloaded and retained very little, despite attempting to re-read.

This epic simile seems almost to be categorically different then Homeric similes. it is a good example of the influence of science on literature.

From the ghost of Achilles to Odysseus in The Odyssey: “I’d rather slave on earth for another man-some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive-than rule down here over the breathless dead”

Commonly translated: "I'd rather be a slave on earth than a king in hell."

Milton is flipping this on its head, as he seems to be flipping much of epic on its head.

I believe this to be an idea taken very seriously by the early 19th century Romantics in poetry and literature.

This brings to mind the 1607 English poem, "My Mind to me a Kingdom Is" by Sir Edward Dyer: https://www.bartleby.com/40/51.html

I've always thought a kingdom was a great analogy for mind. But the idea of a place is similar, if less concrete (since Place is less particular than Kingdom).

Parallel with line 60, spoken by Milton's narrator: "he views / The dismal Situation waste and wilde,"

Here Satan does not call the place where he has been thrown as a "waste" but as "forlorn."

An interesting etymology is that from the 1570s Forlorn has had the connotation of a "faint hope," in its association with the phrase "forlorn hope." The phrase meaning, essentially, "suicide mission," which does have a wisp of hope. Even if we die, our mission will succeed. Or, rather, even if we fail, our mission will succeed.

I believe this is done intentionally by Milton. Above the narrator describing Satan speaks of "waste and wilde." Below Satan speaking of himself says "forlorn and wilde." Which has a stronger connotation of success and hope.

Despite having shown our weakness (from the previous three lines) we fallen ones will define ourselves in contrast to the will of the king of heaven.

Since this is the creation story, there can only be chaos and order. Only two essences at this point. So Satan, having decided on an eternal battle against, has but one alternative. His alternative is "to do ill." That is, to cause sickness (this can be interpreted as more than bodily sickness, but soul sickness too.)

I'm reminded of the old paradox from Socrates: "Is it worse to do evil or to have evil done to you?"

Rather than evil he says it is weakness that is miserable, whether through your own actions or from outside causes.

Is this where my view of Hell comes from?

I find this a fascinating choice by Milton. Why Waste AND wilde?

A waste in reference to place is a location desolate and uncultivated https://www.etymonline.com/word/waste

Moreover, it has many connotations. Empty and useless being among them.

Wild too means uncultivated (by man).

If we take The Garden of Eden to be a perfectly cultivated land provided by God, This "infernal Serpent"is now viewing his "dismal situation" both the region he now occupies and the state of his existence are a "waste and wide."

This makes me wonder about Christian conceptions of evil. From what I understand, evil is just, evil. It doesn't think or "become" evil. it just is evil. I like how Milton is establishing evil as something which has a cause.

Definition of Baleful from Oxford Dictionary online: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/baleful

Sense 1: of the way somebody looks at somebody/something) threatening to do something evil or to hurt somebody

Origin: Old English bealufull (from archaic bale ‘evil as a destructive force’ + -ful).

This seems to be the essence of literature and knowledge. Literature, the capturing of mankind's greatest thoughts and immortalizing it on the page, can illuminate what is dark within us and elevate us through emulation.

It makes me think of the lines in Book V of The Prelude by Wordsworth. In that poem, Wordsworth tells a tale of a man troubled with "disquietude." while reading Don Quixote. Upon putting the book down he has a very odd dream.

In the dream he analogizes Scientific Truth in the form of a stone and Literary Truth in the form of a sea shell. Places the shell to his ear and he hears "that instant in an unknown tongue, / Which yet I understood, articulate sounds, / A loud prophetic blast of harmony."

Wordsworth's point in this section may be that the call to illuminate the dark within me and raise the low within me, may be a critical value of reading literature.

Milton is firmly aware of his tradition in a literary form rather than a oral form.

Like in Homer and Virgil, Milton is positioning his work as a creation story. We can expect many myths and creation stories as we read Paradise Lost.

Neither Homer nor Virgil thought of using a formal reasoning in their art. I do not know when this trend began, but as Milton is writing toward the end of what we think of as The Renaissance and the beginning of The Age of Reason, this makes sense.

Still, it is striking to me that he is choosing to explain in reasoning terms his story. As far as I know, previous epic writers have not done that.

This could also speak to the very different nature of the eras in which epics have been written. Homer, for instance, is writing out of an oral tradition. Milton expects his work to be read rather than recited.