inaudible

Ameyalli:        It's another country, it's another law, it's another people. I discovered the beauty of another country, but I discovered too that there's a lot of discrimination too, and I discovered bad things too, you know? And I think that kind of thing is the things that makes you stronger as a person, everything. And I think being in the States changed me, first of all, because I learned another language. I learned another lifestyle. I learned that there's more that goes on. I don't know. I love Mexico. Of course. I love Mexico, I love everything of my country. But I think Mexicans, we are, sometimes we have a poor mind. We just stay in the box. We don't go for more. We just stay… we like comfortable things. We like to be like that. Being in the States showed me to go over. Because I think, if I were just in Mexico probably I will work in [inaudible 00:25:41], or I don't know. I don’t know. That makes me grow too.

 No. No. No. No. Here's not safe, no, no, no, no, no. I had a situation before, a week ago, where I was just walking to my house and some guy just touched my butt, and he was on a bike and he go faster, and I can't do anything. It's like, oh, my God, this is really happening. It makes me feel bad, of course. Then two weeks ago I was with my boyfriend, and we were in a party and some guys just start getting crazy, and they just grab us and they have... I don't know how it is in English. Un marro [a sledgehammer]. It's like a big...

Alex:        I think it all starts with people's mindset. I really believe in the people, but sometimes we don't understand that, we're so caught up in our jobs and our daily routine that we don't understand what's going on at a high level. And we don't understand that there are certain people who have certain interests, very powerful people with very powerful interests and they're going to manipulate you to get what they want. And if that means that, hey, you know what? We're going to put you against your neighbor because we need the majority of people to win this political run or this political position, so we'll do that, you know? It’s just... we'll do it. Meanwhile, you're the one fighting your neighbor, meanwhile, you're the one thinking that the other person is dangerous because of whatever reason, and you don't realize that most of the dangerous people are the ones you watch on TV talking about how they're going to make the country better.

      Exactly. I did volunteer work in the States. I would teach Algebra for people who were trying to get their GED, free dance classes for communities that, you know… Every now and then you have a community center and they just want certain events. I would go and give free dance classes. So I feel like I was contributing. I've always felt like I was part of the community. I've always felt like I was a piece of the puzzle, or a piece of the watch, to be able to keep it moving. And obviously that wasn't it.Lizzy:        That's heartbreaking to hear.Alex:        It's tough. But I mean, it also did open up my eyes to reality, so…  and that's why... I don't have resentment because that's just the way things are, and it's horrible, but that's just the way things are. So at least now I'm aware of how the world really works, and at least now I can work towards either not falling into that again, and changing things so that people don't have to end up with the same surprise I did.

 Just disappointed, very disappointed. I mean, the reason why I went back when I was younger was because I really thought that it was going to be a great opportunity, and me and my family were going to be able to be better off. I really believed in the system. I really believed like… Here in Mexico, it's so common, and people know of the corruption. In the United States, there's a lot of corruption, it's just, people don't talk about it. Everything's like, it doesn't happen at a very low level, even though it does.Lizzy:        Yeah. Kind of hidden.Alex:        Right. So I was really into that idea of, "Oh, you know, people are fair here." And obviously that wasn't the case, and we go from very low levels, like the cop planted something on me. My lawyer that was supposed to help me, did not help me. The judge and the prosecutor, all they care about is another number. They don't care about the person who's on the other side. They really don't care if you're guilty or not, and that's literally what my lawyer told me. They don't care if you're guilty or not, they just want another number. And when my lawyer tells me that, it's like, you just lose hope. This is a person who's supposed to be believing you, this is the person who's supposed to be helping you.

So then finally they were like, "Okay, well, if you plead guilty for the fight, we'll drop your under the influence charges and we'll give you deferred adjudication of guilt for the cocaine. So the first two months I said no, and I was just like, "Take me trial. Take me to trial. Take me to trial." I had at the time, I had a public lawyer helping me, one of those public assistance lawyers, and he just misled me. When I was telling him, "Take me to trial, take me to trial", he was like, "You're going to lose." I was like, "Well, why would I lose? I have everything. I have the sequence of events." Like when the cop called in, he was just taking me in for the fight, it wasn't till I was already in jail that they slapped me with, oh, now I have a cocaine charge. How does that even happen?Alex:        I was like, "I'm sure you guys have cameras. I'm sure you guys have a report. Like there should be a time log that points to me either having or not having the cocaine." But he just kept saying, "No, you're going to lose, you're going to lose. They're going to keep you here, they're just going to extend your time." At the time, I was living with a single mom, my mom, and three younger sisters. I was the oldest. I was 19, 20. So I was providing half of the payments of the house. I was the one who'd buy my sisters' shoes for school, things like that. So three months without working, and you're young, you don't have a saving account, they're struggling. And I was like, "I can't be here any longer,” so I took the plea guilt, the... I don't even know what it's called.Lizzy:        Plea bargain?Alex:        Plea bargain, there you go. Trying to look for it. So I took the plea bargain and I was out the next day, and I was doing okay. I was actually able to become materials manager for _______. The guy that was previously holding that position was a mechanical engineer, and I had never been to school. That's actually when I started going to college, because the company was like, "Well, we need you to be an engineer, but you're already doing everything right, so we're going to help you out." So the company actually started helping me out into enrolling into community college, so I could try to become an engineer.

 I didn't see a difference between me and the next person, and I was just a teenager, a young adult doing whatever it is that his friends were doing. I had been pulled over, but, I mean, my traffic offenses were always resolved. Then I was involved in a street fight. I would call it more like self-defense.Lizzy:        So somebody else started-Alex:        Yes.Lizzy:        ... a fight with you.Alex:        Yes. We got arrested, and it was at a party. There was obviously drugs and alcohol going on at the party. So I was accused of being under the influence, possession of cocaine, and obviously being engaged in the fight. I was able to drop the cocaine charges because the cop planted it on me, and I was able to drop the under the influence charges because, I mean, I was in a private place. I had had a few drinks, but it wasn't like I was at public place.

 What with? Was it the English-Alex:        Yeah. I remember when they were trying to divide us into groups for P.E. and computer lab and library, because we would rotate. They were calling the students by gender and teacher, and I would just see kids get up and sit down, get up and sit down, and I was like, oh, I don't know. But I didn't want to be left out, right?Lizzy:        Mm-hmm (affirmative).Alex:        So I'm like, okay, in the next round I'm going to get up. And they called for some other teacher that wasn't my teacher, girls, and I got up and everybody just laughed, and I was like, I didn't even know what was going on.Lizzy:        Was that embarrassing?Alex:        It was pretty embarrassing. But, I mean, I think it's normal, it's natural. Every time you want to attempt something new or something that's unknown to you, you're always going to come across those kind of situations, and I think it gave me a foundation to always try new things without really being... or without feeling so bad about just embarrassing yourself or failing because it's just part of the process. You know, if you have grit and if you keep doing it long enough, you'll get it.Lizzy:        Were there any specific teachers that stand out to you now, looking back, that helped you?Alex:        Yes, I do have a few. So elementary school, Mr. Nala was my first teacher. I was actually not supposed to be with him, I was supposed to go into fourth grade, but since I knew no English, they brought me back to third grade, and Mr. Nala was the third grade teacher. But he helped me so much, I could tell that he genuinely just cared about the students and having us learn. Actually all of my elementary was pretty dope. Then Mr. Robinson, he was my fifth grade teacher because then I got bumped up to fifth grade, and he was just so chill, but on point, also, with school materials. He was just cool. I would just see him as the cool teacher.

 So I know it's not in every school, but at the beginning I attended a very good school district, and it had so many programs. The teacher assistance was there, the support was there, the culture was very diverse, and I just liked it. That was my elementary school. My town in Mexico, it's a rural town. We had one school in the rural town, and just, the resources were not there. I remember in third grade was the first time I ever saw a computer. And then I moved to the States and we had a whole computer lab. So back in Mexico, like I said, in third grade we had six computers for the whole school. Go to the States, and we have two computers per class, and then we have a computer lab. So I realized that the resources, and just the difference in resources was very different, and I just wanted to get the best education that I could.

 So if you were to return to the US, do you think you would go back to who you were before?Alejandro:        No. Never, because I actually know what's real now. I would never go back to what I used to be, man. Because my friends, so-called friends, they're actually living the life right now, actually out there enjoying their kids. Some of them got kids, married, they got nice cars. And I know I could have had that. And I was already 15. I already had more things in a lot of guys' my age should have had at the time. I mean, I know I was going to make it regardless. And no, I would not go back to that, because like I said, I actually know who's real now. I know that my family is real, they're the ones that stuck with me throughout this whole time, they're still the ones with me. When I need help financially, they're the ones that helped me. When I need help, just help period, they're there for me. Nobody else is there. But damn, yeah bro.

After being in the US for so long, do you think being in the US has made you the person you are today and how is that different from---Alejandro:        Oh yeah. Yeah. It has made me the person I am today, because I mean, if I didn't grow up how I grew up, I would have probably been a different person, but I know if I would've probably grew up here, I would have probably been dead or shot. I mean, like I told you, I lived in the centro right there in Morelos. That's where I'm from. I seen pretty crazy things out there. And like I said, I know if I would've stayed up growing up here, I would have probably been dead, or I would probably been one of these guys out here, staying in the streets, I would probably got lost in drug addictions because I mean, over there, you grow up with a mentality like, you want to be the man around the block. And over here, all these guys want to do is get messed up.Alejandro:        I would probably have been worse if I would've grew up out here. And thank God I had a good lifestyle. I can't complain. Like I said, I had family things, I went out to the beach. I went to school. I had every day I was always used to be into sports. I was everyday thing like my life wasn't messed up. And so far since I've been here in Mexico I mean, and I used to be fatter, I lost weight. I'm not eating as I used, how I used to. I used to have money. Right here, I got to be working 11 hours a day for me to get decent money. And it's still not enough because you still can't get the things that you want. It's just for you to survive.

Alejandro:        Yeah man. I mean they should first the dog case slap on the wrist. They first a dog case gets shipped out there and they don't even know somebody's background. They don't know, all they see you as a immigrant, but bro, I mean, you know how long I been here? Like I been here since I was two years old bro. I grew up over here, bro like, what are you going to send me out there for, like you know? Why? That's the real honest, why is it I'm more from here than not there?

 Yeah. Not like that either. I actually love being Mexican, but I actually just feel like my whole life is out there, bro. I ain't grow up here. All these guys, they grew up right here in the same neighborhood. They grew up going to the same school together. I swear my life is my friends, my family, my life is out there. I don't got nothing to do out here. I don't got no friends here. I ain't got no family here, family like sisters, brothers, mom, I don't got family like that out here. So what am I doing? Ain't nothing out here for me.

Alejandro:        It was like I was doing time still. I was still locked up. I was in the cell. They was still locked me down. I was supposed to be free, but yet I was doing time. Like it felt bogus, I still did a whole, like I said, I spent like a week and in Pontiac Farms and then afterwards I went to McHenry County. I did like a whole month still when I was supposed to be let free, you know? I was still doing time, still eating State food. I mean, It was bogus. I guess they had me on a waiting list to get shipped out, out here. And I had to wait the whole month. It was bogus. I ain't like it.

 Well just. Nothing made me want to have it, like I said, it just happened spontaneously, but I mean, we were just like happy about it. If it happened, it happened. I mean, things happen for a reason. Right. Nothing's an accident like they say. And I do believe that. I mean, everything just happens for a reason. Like they say, I could have probably been shot, killed out there maybe, but I don't know. Sometimes I do think like that, but at the end of the day, I feel like I don't belong here. I just want to be out there.

Yeah. I knew she was pregnant, but at that time we actually separated because of her family, like her mom never liked me. And I was… we were actually living together. At 15, already living together. Like man, she just hated the fact of how I lived. And her mom hated the fact of how I lived and I don't know, she ended up eventually taking her from me. It got to that point where we just ended up separating from all the things that were going on and stuff. Yeah, I knew she was pregnant, but when I caught my case, I was out there in the streets, I wasn't thinking about her to be honest.

 So what's one of your favorite memories of the US?Alejandro:        Going to the beach every summer, like going and spending time with my family, going out. We actually have family things. We actually went to Wisconsin Dells, we actually went out to beaches, had cookouts. I miss my family, man. They're all at the toast. They're over there. My sisters, my brothers, like I said, my mom is out there. I mean, they're all out there and I'm out here. And yeah, just having those family experiences, just chilling with them, spending time with them.

Violence in the US? Yeah. That was an everyday thing. Yeah. I experienced a lot of violence, a lot of chase. They chase me, I chased them. You seen a couple of shootouts here and there. Yeah. That was everyday thing, man. Like, you're from that block, you can't leave that block, man. Just stay in your block because we ain't got nothing else to do over there. You're just going to end up getting shot or getting chased or getting bricked at, getting thrown a bottle at your head. That was everyday thing out there. Chicago was murder capital.

Yeah, it's just that I grew up with certain people. So, with the same friends I grew up with, it was like, I couldn't leave them. And like I said, I could probably start a new friends every time I moved to a different neighborhood, but it was just like, I don't know, the loyalty plus it's just like the things that you been with them. You can't leave them. So you basically got that guilt in the back of your head like, I can't leave them. Like they'd been there with me when no one else was, you know? Or when I needed them and stuff like that, they were actually there. And it was just like, yeah, you can't leave them hanging there. It wasn't being afraid, but it was something that you were supposed to do, you know.

La segunda vez, lo mismo. Pero en esta vez sí nada más como que escogieron a ciertas personas. Igual, me saltaron a mí y siguieron a los demás. Ya la segunda vez yo dije, “Dios mío, si estás tú conmigo”. Yo creo que ahí fue donde yo más empecé a creer en Dios cuando dije “No, Dios de verdad está conmigo. Dios de verdad está con mi familia porque no puedo creer que dos veces yo me haya librado de esto”.

La primera vez yo tenía un año de haber llegado. No sabía casi inglés. Medio entendía palabritas pero no sabía. Tenía una amiguita que ella sí sabía perfectamente inglés. Ella era de Sinaloa, pero sabía muy bien inglés. Llegaron los de migración a pedir papeles en la entrada. Y yo decía, “No pues ya me van a agarrar me van a llevar” y me dijo, “No”. Me agarro la mano y me dijo, “No te preocupes. Yo voy a hablar inglés y tú solamente me vas a contestar contestar ‘yes’ o ‘maybe’”. Y yo iba así, “Yes o maybe, yes o maybe” [Ríendose]. Pasamos, el de migración nos pidió los documentos. Yo le entregué mi ID. Se me quedó viendo y ella—ni sé qué me dijo, sinceramente, no sé que me dijo—y yo le contesté, “Yes, yes, yes, it's ok!” Se me quedó viendo el de migración, me dio mi ID otra vez y dijo, “Adelante”. Y salimos. Yo salí como Bambi recién nacido con los pies así y me agarró llorar y llorar y ella me decia, “Tranquilízate”. Yo me acuerdo que iba llorando y así yo muy recta; que no me vieran. Pero vi a muchas de mis amigas que se llevaron. A muchos de mis amigos que se llevaron que ellos si no pudieron salir; no pudieron tener la misma suerte que yo.

Si. Si era necesario. Inclusive hasta el día que yo me regresé yo siempre guardé eso. Obviamente lo decíamos con las personas que teníamos demasiada confianza ¿no? Los amiguitos que nos hicimos de familia. Pero realmente en el trabajo yo no podía comentar que yo no tenía una documentación porque a veces la gente de eso se vale. Yo trataba de ser amiga de todos para evitarme un problema y pues si gracias a Dios me ayudaba a la gente. Pero sí me tocó ver muchas personas que deportaban así en mi cara que se llevaban y yo lloraba porque decía, “un día de estos me va a tocar a mí también”. O yo manejaba y siempre con la angustia de que me pararan y me llevaran y mis hijos ¿Qué pasaba? Sí, si se vive con miedo alla.

Y dije, “Con esa renta nosotros vamos a salirnos de aquí. Voy a ponerme a trabajar y voy a ayudar”. Pero decía, “¿Cómo voy a ayudar si no puedo trabajar porque no tengo papeles?”.

Él agarraba pollo en ese entonces para Pilgrims y siento que si abusaban. En ese entonces era un sueldo de 400 dólares y a él solo le daban cincuenta. Y que porque era por el cuarto que nos estaban dando. Sí fue muy triste. Todo un año la pasamos difícil.

Si la sufrimos, si la pasamos muy duro porque si es algo a veces muy triste. Yo me recuerdo que llegamos a un cuarto (Llorando) donde los colchones eran sólo con resortes, y habían muchas ratas; habia mucha gente ahí. Entonces yo no dormía para espantar las ratas para que no mordieran a mis hijos. Casi un año estuve así. Y mi esposo pues salía dizque a trabajar pero sólo le pagaban cincuenta dólares a la semana en ese entonces porque pues realmente abusaban mucho de él.

Muchos dicen que en Estados Unidos hay mucho racismo. Gracias a Dios a nosotros nunca nos tocó. Siempre hubo gente que nos ayudó. Siempre.

Entonces dije, “Bueno, Diosito me abrio esa puertas”. Era para mí ese lugar. Después vino lo peor porque yo tenía ya dos semanas en un pueblito que se llama ___, Arkansas y mis hijos seguían en ___: mi Sylent de siete años y mi niña de dos años.

Sí estuvo un poquito difícil porque yo ni idea tenía cómo iba a pasar, pero creo que Diosito me puso ángeles. Primero me maquillaron mucho porque yo iba a pasar con una documentación de otra persona; y me imagino que tenía que parecerme [Insegura].

Sí sentí miedo. Pero después—yo soy muy creyente en Dios—y dije, “Dios mío si esas puertas son para mí pues abremelas”. Y se me abrieron muy fácil. Muy fácil y me fui. Me fui.

Cuando íbamos pasando la primera garita fue todo muy fácil. En la segunda garita se subieron unos oficiales. Ahí fue cuando encontré mi primer ángel. Iba un chico sentado al lado mío—un salvadoreño. Y cuando suben las personas estas a pedirnos la documentación, lo dijeron en inglés; yo no entendí nada. Y el chico este se me queda viendo y me dijo, “Te están pidiendo los documentos”. Pero me lo dijo muy quedito. Entonces yo le dije “¿Cuáles?”. Yo nomás llevaba una tarjetita que era según era el permiso pero yo no sabía. Se acerca la persona esta—el señor de migración—y el chico contesta, “Es mi esposa, permítame”. Y me dice, “Mi amor dame los papeles,” y yo asi como que “¿Cuáles papeles?”. Y me dice, “Haber,” y me jala la bolsa, saca mis papeles y me quedé así como asustada y se los da al migrante.

Y él le dice, “Vamos para Dallas, vamos de paseo, no hay problema, este es su permiso de mi mujer”. Él me tenía de la mano no me soltaba. Yo trataba de quitarme la mano porque sí me asusté; sí me asusté al momento. Pasamos la garita como si nada y me dice, “¿Eres ilegal verdad?”. Y yo, “¿Qué sé eso?”. Él me explica. Yo sólo me acuerdo que lloré, lloré, lloré, lloré, lloré y dije, “¿Dios mío qué es lo que estoy haciendo?”. Yo no sabía. Y dije, “Bueno Diosito, tú sabes por qué lo hiciste”. Él nada mas me dijo, “Ten mucho cuidado, cuídate mucho y que Dios te bendiga”. Jamás volví a saber de él. Nunca lo volví a ver, nunca supe quién era. Nunca—ni su nombre.

No. Fue así. Mi situación era muy difícil; a veces no teníamos ni para comer sinceramente. Yo cada que veía a mi familia que venía de allá [Estados Unidos] pues ellos venían muy bien, les había ido a todos muy bien.

En ese entonces teníamos una situación económica mi esposo y yo un poquito difícil. Llegaron unos primos de allá [Estados Unidos], vieron nuestra situación y me lo plantearon. Entonces dije yo, “Bueno, si es un mejor futuro para mis hijos, adelante.” Y sin pensarlo lo hice.

In that moment since I was little, I didn't know about the barriers. I knew I didn't have papers, but I didn't know the consequences of not having papers. You're little. You would like to play and all that stuff. Basically, you're a kid, and kids just enjoy life.

ah. It was very fun. It was very different. Each country has a different way of their system of education. What I liked a lot is that mostly you get free lunch up in the States, and you get a lot of courses that are free, and summer activities in school, and they're also free. That's very different because right here, you got to pay for them. I liked it a lot. It's different. I remember my school, they had a big park for a court of tennis, basketball, baseball.

Anne: Did you start first grade in the US?Carlos: No, I started second grade, because I finished first grade here. Over there I started second grade.Anne: How'd that go?Carlos: Well, I think it would have been worse if I didn't have any other school friends that were also from Mexico and stuff like that. They had the same problem. They didn't know how to speak English or so, and we got all in some courses from school. That's mostly where I ended up learning English. Yeah.Anne: English as a second language courses? ESL courses?Carlos: Yes, I think it was, yeah.

Yes, it was very hard. In that time, I'm the biggest son of my dad, and wouldn't have someone to interact with. Mostly it was my cousin. They lived a few blocks away from us, so I just hanged out with them. Right now I can remember they were teasing me for not knowing English. It's kind of fun once you understand, right?

It was fun. I really enjoyed it. I got to make a lot of friends there. I still talk to them. I still have more than my dad. I have cousins, uncles, aunts mostly.

When I left here in Mexico, I was six years old. Mostly I left because my dad lives there and he wanted me to live with him. I went there because of him. While I went there, I was crossed through the border, but I really don't remember—I was six years old. I just remember that I was in a house, then they took me in a car, and then I woke up at another house, and then at another house until I got to California, I think, and that's where my dad picked me up.

No, I had the bad experience with Chicanos telling me I'm a wetback, and I had a lot of fights there. I used to tell them, "You know what? I'm a wetback, but guess what? I know what I am. I'm Mexican. You don't know what you are. You don't know. Tell me what you are, and I’ll respect you." That got me into a lot of trouble, a lot of trouble because that's what my mom told me. "They don't know what they are. You know what you are. You're Mexican. They don't know." She taught me about it. “You know, they go to Dodger Stadium, they're Americans, hotdogs, beer, all this. Cinco de Mayo, they're Mexican. So tell me what they are.”

Right. I believe because of what we had before here in Mexico. We had a lot of pressure at school. I don't know, this new expression about bullying is brand new. Bullying. You didn't have this here in Mexico. There was no bullying. You just got out of the school, "Okay, why are you doing this to me," and you fight. That's it. No words, no nothing, no bullying. It was like, "I'm not fat. I'm not skinny. I'm not short." No. Teachers were very, very strict. Also, my cousins my age, we lived this experience with the teachers who were very strict. You don't do this, you don't do that. I remember them having my hands or my fingers together and they had a ruler, and they hit me if I didn't have the homework, if I was misbehaving. Teachers were very– you have to respect them at that time. When you go to a different country, and you had this Chicano culture that there, I mean, no respect. It was like, "No, that's not what I learned."

Yes. Yes, I did. I didn't know it, I was just [mumbling 00:46:07] didn't know. But then I learned it. I remember we used to do the Pledge of Allegiance, it was every morning, every morning. After that, I don't know what happened to schools. They stopped doing it, but it was every day. I used to do it every day. The Pledge of Allegiance. I even learned the American anthem, but all of a sudden everything started changing. I really don't know why. Times change. Things change. It reminds me a lot when I used to ride my bicycle to school, put the lock on it. I felt like in the movies. When I was little, I felt like I was in the movies, because of me on a bicycle, putting my bicycle and locking it. I felt like the Back to the Future guy, and I always wanted some Nikes like this guy. It was difficult for the language. It was difficult for the culture because it got me mixed up with the American culture and Chicano culture. There was a big division there because I had to learn from both.Beto:That's when you get like a Chicano burrito, Americans potato, mashed potatoes in this. Then, okay, Chicano goes to LA Dodgers stadium, and he's American. Cinco de Mayo, he's Mexican. What's going on? It's like, what's going on with this guy? But then American culture, [sings] “take me out to the ballgame.” I asked my mom a lot of stuff. I asked my dad a lot of stuff, and I believe I mentioned when you asked me how I felt, American or Mexican? That's what they taught me. "You're Mexican. You're Mexican, you know the pyramids. You been there, you studied there. You remember this?" "Yes." Okay. Then you're Mexican. You're not American, but you're learning the American culture. Okay? Chicano, it's different. Way, totally, completely out of, don't pay attention. Yes. Pay attention. But don't go too much into it. You're Mexican."

I learned English in California.Anita:How?Beto:[37:17] I went to middle school. I learned the hard way because my dad actually just put me into school like from one day to another, and it was like I was in the middle of nowhere. I felt like a little ant. Everybody was like, "The new guy" but I didn't know what they were talking about. And you feel very, very tiny listening into everybody. They put me into ESL classes as well. Now that I'm 41 years old and trying to remember when I was like 13 years old, I'm thinking at that time it was 1991 when they had these ESL classes. Where did they get these ESL classes from? At that moment, there wasn't that many immigrants. Everything in California was pack of Americans. It was an all-American state. They had this ESL class that they put me in. Most of my friends talked in Spanish. I was feeling like home. But it was just a certain class for me to learn how to say parts of my body and clothing. After that you need to go to history class. "Huh? Okay." You got to learn who is Abraham Lincoln. "Okay. I heard about him." But then the language, I just heard the teacher going, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."Beto:Okay and I understood “Abraham Lincoln,” and that’s all. "Abraham Lincoln." "Good. What about him?" Yes. It was difficult. Math? I didn't talk at all. I was good at math because I learned –here in Mexico, they're very good at math and still they are very good at math. My algebra teacher – It was a Chicano girl. I remember that Chicano girl. The teacher pointed at me for something and then the girl told me, "Hey he's calling you. The teacher is calling you." She said that in Spanish. "Mm-hmm. What you want me to do? What does he want me to do?" "He wants you to go to the board and complete the mathematic there.”Beto:"Just go try to do it." She actually translated for the teacher, so I just went in without talking. I just finished the equation. It was an equation. The teacher was like, "How do you do it? You got to show me how you do it. How'd you get that result?" When he looked at me with those surprised eyes I was like, "Oh, I think I did something wrong. Oh no, he's going to call my parents." Then the girl says, the translator said, "How do you do it?" "Because that's how I learned to do it." "Where do you learn to do it? He's asking where you-" "Mexico." "He wants you to teach him how you did that." "Well, this, this goes like this and you go like that". "But how come you don't put anything on the board? How come you don't write anything? How come you just put the answer?"Beto:"Because in Mexico you just got to do the math in your head. My teachers will get mad if I do the math on the board. They don't like you to do that." Here, now this is different from my times. If you do a subtraction, you just do this subtraction. That's it. If you are going to do division, you just put the answer in and put the few steps down there. You don't do the minus thingy on the bottom and continue with the big line on the bottom. No, you just do the equation and that's it. My teacher was like, "Okay, I'll teach you guys more. This guy is crazy." I remember when he called me crazy, "This guy is crazy, how come he did this? I'll show you guys how to do this."

Yes. They remember my order. It was amazing because they got me there. Now I know why Starbucks puts your name on the little thing because by putting your name, it's like you are part of this place. They make you feel like you are part of that specific restaurant. Not like what you see in the movies. But I had a lot of restaurants where I used to go in, and they were all my friends and they told me here, "Why don't you change your name when you, when you make- " "I don't have to, everybody knows Beto."

I miss the taste. I miss the relaxation, everything that's around in the States. It's very –you don't stress that much. I used to travel around at work and the view is beautiful. There's a lot of places that are beautiful. I haven't had a chance to travel here. But the food, the American stuff, the things I used to do early in the morning like to go to this American restaurant and ask for my hash browns, my bacon, jar of orange juice and a coffee, it’s just amazing. The cook was my friend and, he knew me already. "Hey Beto." "Hey my friend. Same?" It was amazing. Something that we don't have here. Something that's missing here when you go in, the way they treat you, it's beautiful.

No, not really. No. They actually want to know more. They stick with you. They stick with you and we learn from them because we actually don't know where a place is. "Hey, we want to try another thing" especially food or restaurants or maybe a bar. " Oh, you've never been to this place?" "We don't even know where it is,” “Let's go." We learn from them too. "Oh this is a nice one, I've never been here." We actually get together, and they learn, we learn, and at the end we become very good friends and that's when we become the network. "Get over here, what are you're doing there? You're getting little money. Come with us. Here's better now."

We're together. We're actually together. We become very good friends because this is what happens when they learn English, they get to learn the culture. They get to learn the American culture by all these games, by watching the movies. We can have a conversation. If someone here does not have the same ideas, we don't actually have this problem. Some of them ask us, "Hey, you've been in the States, how is this? How is that? You've been to Disneyland?" "Yes." "Mickey mouse is big?" But that's simple stuff. They don't ask much. I'll give you another example. I had a friend that didn't know, "Hey, what is a money order?" "That's like a voucher. We don't have these here." “Oh, that's a money order.”

Exactly. Not to get money. Well, they actually are taking advantage of it because they're getting money, and they're learning English. That's the 25%. Some of them, because they're in school, they learned it maybe by playing games. When we're in training and we have to actually introduce ourselves, I'm amazed that they learned English playing games online or by watching movies. I was like, it took me a lot in the States to learn English because I was just listening to English. But it took me a little while and they're just like, "Oh I learned it by watching, I don't know, Finding Nemo and Toy Story.” I'm laughing at all of it, "Yeah you did. Yes." We've had this guy introducing himself, he actually knew the Toy Story song and I was like, "Yes, you did learn English with Toy Story." That's the 25%. Some of them, they do need it because they're actually in school here, they study they're actually just trying to keep on learning and move on.

Okay, I will tell you in my head that 25% are from Mexico, 75% are immigrants

I've been to a lot of call centers, a lot. Tell me about it, you can ask me about the call centers, the things I’ve done, the accounts. I've been to a MasterCard, Kohls, I've even sold packages for cable TV, all those things. You get to learn too. That's one of the advantages because you're learning too, because you're managing money, people's money, you actually get to know. I mean, on my end, that's what I've learned. I don't talk bad about the call centers. I learned a lot. I never, well, in the States I never had a credit card due to the fact that I was an illegal immigrant. But here I have been managing people's credit cards, and it's like, "Oh, I didn't know about this." I mean, right now I'm in a call center where you lease phones. I was surprised about leasing phones. I never heard about leasing phones. I heard about leasing TVs, leasing cars, but phones?

Abaya

I'm pretty sure the call centers are doing their best to help us out, but I don't know. It is very difficult. You're actually waiting to see what's going to happen. Every time you go to a call center, you wait to see what's going to happen next. Okay, I'm here right now. This is a good account. I'm getting my money, but what if it moves? For us it's difficult because, as being in this business, I think it is a business, I got to invest my time and I’ve got to save money because I don't know what's going to happen next. That's why I've been in so many call centers here.

Well, a call center is a great place. I have nothing to say bad about call centers because basically you're in the process of making money. Right? But as I mentioned before, for me to get stuck in a call center is a dead-end point. You don't go farther than what you're expecting to. This I learned, maybe I didn't also tell you about the story that I have encountered all over the call centers, which got me to getting my own business, a small little business, which is like a little grocery store. I found out that every time I used to go to a call center, I used to go down the stairs, try to get something to eat, a snack, and I saw this guy selling a lot of stuff down there. I used to give them almost like 50 pesos every time I went down to eat. That's when I was like, "Okay, what am I doing here? They're making more money than I'm making, and they're just here for a couple hours." That's one of the things I actually encountered in the call centers. You're there for eight hours. Nowadays, you don't get your lunch paid, which is like, it's another hour extra of your life because you have to travel two hours from your house all the way to work and then you have to travel back two hours from work to your house. It's very difficult.

Oh, yeah. I think of myself as Mexican, but I do love America. United States, because we are in America here. I always consider myself as being a Monrovian, Californian. I mean, I paid my taxes, I went to school there. I grew up there. I guess it's not where you're born, it's where you were raised. I love this place though too. I do, because out here, it's a trip. I mean, out here, you won't go broke. If you're a lazy person, you won't have ... there's work everywhere out here. You can do whatever. I mean, helping a lady take her bags to the car, she'll give you ten pesos. If you look for stuff to do here, there's stuff to do here. Just me, I just miss my life you know? I miss my life. It's way different, put on a CD that somebody's going to like ... then somebody’s not going to look right, "What the heck is that?" I mean, it's just hard, especially when you live around everybody who don’t speak English. They don't hear your stuff. I do have a couple friends though that are from out there too though, that are deported also. Because we find each other. You'll see somebody that has tags and you'll be like, "Hey, man. You lived out there before?" "Yeah, I lived in so-and-so. I lived in Huntington Beach," or "I lived in Long Beach." "Oh, is that right? Oh man, I lived in Monrovia." Become friends. That's why I still speak English. I mean, I don't lose my—

Abel: And then I never got the letter, so they thought I skipped bail. So the bounty hunters came and got me, took me to the INS building in downtown. Once I was there, my lawyer, he told me to go ahead and just sign deportation, that he could get me my papers easier through the outs. So I listened to him, which was stupid, and I signed my voluntary deportation. And this was in '97, something like that. So I get out. I mean, they deport me. That same day –I’m back in Mexico-I call my wife, "Come and get me. Bring my license. Bring one of your friends, or one of her boyfriends, or husband, whoever you want to bring." I just crossed. I crossed right across. My license, U.S. citizen. Plus, my name helps, because my name's Abel Martine, but over there you only use your first last name.

Abel: I met her though, well, being in trouble. I mean, I knew her family for years. I knew her for years, but when I got in trouble, she was writing me. She was writing me letters and stuff, so when I got out, I was kind of courting her already. So we started going out. She wanted to help me out so I wouldn't get deported, so we got married. And then I had my daughter with her. We had our daughter. I still ended up getting deported though, because I missed my court date. I moved and, I never got my court date, and they came and got me at work, INS.

Abel: We stole a car, me and my buddy. The keys were in there, we took off. We got in trouble. I did six months for that. But I never got deported. I just showed them my green card, I got out.Anne: How old were you at that point?Abel: I was eighteen. I was eighteen-years-old. That was the first time I ever got busted, eighteen years old, joyriding. Gave me six months. I got out—Anne: You were eighteen, so it wasn't juvenile?Abel: No. I went to LA County. I did my time in county jail. I didn't go to prison. Then in 1992, that's when I got busted. That's the first time I went to the pen. I got into an altercation at a party and there were some shots fired, and I got busted. I mean, I didn't do it, but you can't tell how it goes. So, I got busted with the guys that were there too, and we all had to do time. I did three-and-a-half years off of that. They gave me seven years, I did three and a half. Then—

Abel: I think they might've suspected it, but they didn't want to believe it until later, until they finally knew it, until I was deep in it. Because they would see that I had little tattoos and stuff, but they wouldn't ... I mean, they would see my friends as the kids I grew up with. They didn't see them as gang members. They knew them as so-and-so's son, and so-and-so's daughter. I mean, your mom's always going to think you're an angel no matter what you do.

Abel: Yeah. I started working as a kid to dress the way I wanted to dress because my mom would tell me, "No, you can't wear those pants. They're too big." Or, "You can't wear that shirt." Or, "No, you can't cut your hair like that." So for me to get what I wanted to wear, I started working at the swap meet. I used to work with these Chinese dudes selling shoes. I was thirteen, fourteen. I started making my own money selling shoes and stuff. That's how I started buying my clothes.

you said that you got involved with gangs. How old were you?Abel: I was about fourteen, fifteen, going to high school.Anne: Why do you think it happened?Abel: I think it was because I didn't have anybody to watch me. My mom had to go to work. She got out of work, like seven. My dad took off to work at two. He didn't get back until nighttime. So, I had this lapse of five hours that I would get off of school at 1:50 and I had a park across the street from my house that a lot of my friends now hang out at. We're hanging out. We started off just hanging out with the skateboards and the bikes. Little by little, it led to other things. So, I started hanging out with the homies.Anne: We see that a lot, a lot of the deportees that have come back talk about that.Abel: Yeah, it kind of pulls you. That's all you see. It was funny, because like I said, you go out there, you see a beautiful town, but you don't know what's there until later. Because out there, everything's nice, compared to out here. It might be gang infested, but in the daytime it looks like Beverly Hills. You come out at night, it looks like Iraq.

Abel: That I don't remember. Well, it was different, because as a kid I lived in the city, I lived here. And Monrovia, it was a quiet town for me. It was nice, it was a pretty town. Sidewalks and everything was, you know, pavement and stuff. It was nice. Park areas. I liked it, it was a beautiful place. I lived there all my life almost, just one spot.

That same week, I started going to kindergarten, got enrolled in school. It was easier back then. It was in the 70s. So I started going to pre-kinder. I went to Mayflower Elementary School, all the way up to the fifth grade. I graduated, and went to Clifton Junior High School. And then I went to Monrovia High. But it was a big process. My mom and dad both had to work—going for that American dream. I am the only child, so I found my friends in the streets. So as a young kid, I started hanging out and I did become involved in the gang culture in LA.

Yeah, I do. I have memories of me crossing. Drove in a station wagon with the coyote. It was me and my mom— my mom is really light-skinned, and she looks Caucasian. She put a camera on and I was in the back playing with some kid with the little cars and stuff, and just drove right across. Got to a safe house and my dad came and picked us up, and that was it

That, too. I feel like a lot of us that have come back, we don't have that opportunity to continue our education because we don't have the money. We don't have – Including just to get your ID here, you go through a lot. You have to take a lot of documents that you don't even know if you have. A lot of people that came back, they don't even know what Mexico is like. Even trying to get an education, what are we going to study? What career can we make, or can we select to become part of a helpful community? My best guess is languages, not only English but other languages like French or German. I think if we want to be a first world country, we have to act like it. That's where our government is not putting its full potential because we do have the resources, but they're so corrupted that they'd rather keep that to themselves.

Yeah. Yeah, and I didn't use it then, but I should have. But I did feel a cultural shock especially because, in Mexico City there's all kinds of people, all kinds of people. Of course, when I was in United States, I would hang out with people that listened to hip hop. That was it. I didn't really meet people that listened to metal music or reggae or things like that. I started going out with my cousin, he's a guitar player, so he started inviting me to his events. I would see different kinds of people. People with long hair, makeup on, all black. I thought it was pretty cool, like, "Okay, they have their own identity." Then I would go into the reggae events and saw people with dreadlocks, different type of black style, including people that worship other– Not just Christianity but people that practice Buddhism or practice Satanism or things like that. I said, "Wow. It's amazing."

[51:59] Then as I got older, maybe in my mid 20s or early on, when I was 25, I learned that I had nothing to do with it. It was their choice. Recently, my mom came to visit here, and it was amazing because once again my whole family was sitting down at a table eating together. My mom has a boyfriend, my dad has a girlfriend, so I guess they put those issues aside as, "Hey now, we're still family. It doesn't matter who's next to us. We're always going to be a family." This happened last month.

She was trying to make money so when she could come back, we would have something. She did do it because now she has a car. I guess that was it. But as my mom and dad got separated, they eventually divorced. It was hard on both of us, my sister and I. I did feel guilty because I thought that because of me being deported caused my mom to send my sister and it caused my parents to separate. I did feel bad about that. It was horrible because I felt like I was a bad person. I felt like it was my fault that my parents got divorced. I felt really bad.

Did your family visit you?Sylent:They couldn't. They couldn't because they were illegal too, so they couldn't. They couldn't. I guess the only other way was to write letters. I never received any letter, but I do remember writing them. That was our freedom through writing letters.

They detained me there. I was there for six hours. I remember not being fed until a police guy, I guess he was Hispanic, he asked me, "Have you eaten?" I said, "No, I haven't." He went and got me some McDonald's. I do remember it was a long time, though. Then, they took me in to the county. I was in Arkansas. I went into _____________. Then that's whenever I said, "Okay, so it's real." They put me into the outfit, it was an orange outfit. I was separated with other people. It was hard because I didn't know, I didn't understand like that. I said, "Well, I don't think I can compare myself to them. They really are people who either hurt people or they’ve done damages. I don't think I have done that." I was in there with those people, so I guess they put me in the same category as those people.

There's a lot of people, and this was surprising too to us, talked about discrimination between Mexicans, illegal Mexicans, and Chicanos. Did you experience that?Sylent:Maybe not, because I grew up as a Chicano. Maybe not that much. I do remember other people being discriminated because they were from Mexico but from provinces, so they got even more. They got called paisanos. They were darker skinned, so I did feel it, not me personally, but I did feel it for my peers.Anita:Because you were a city dude?Sylent:Yeah, well, the area where I lived wasn't a big city. It was like _______. It wasn't super big, but it wasn't small.Anita:You said you weren't like people from the provinces, so you were considered Chicano?Sylent:Yes. That's, I guess, because of the area where we lived. I don't know. I guess my parents always wanted us to live in the nicer area so I would hang out with people like that. Then, when I would go see my friends, they didn't have white neighbors they had Mexican neighbors or people from other countries. In the area where I lived, we were the only Mexicans in the area. I do remember my neighbors that were black, the person on the side, he was my middle school coach from PE classes. We grew up in a very nice area. We had a front yard, a back yard, we had a pool in the back, we had a trampoline, we had a swing. I guess that's why they were working all day so they could provide us with that type of lifestyle. I didn't really feel that personally, but I do remember other people discriminating. I don't want to say for lower class people, they did. They did get that.

My favorite holiday? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think, well, maybe every child's favorite holiday is Christmas because of the presents. I didn't really care about the presents. I cared more about everybody being there. Sometimes the whole family didn't see each other until the end of the year. I think that was the time where I really got to see all of my cousins or I really got to see my uncles. But a favorite holiday? I don't know, April Fool's maybe? [laughing] I could do a lot of pranks on people. I'm not sure. I don't think I had a favorite holiday.

Carol songs or things like that. Instead of eating turkey, we ate Pozole. It was a little bit of both, of course.Anita:Tamales.Sylent:Tamales, yes. My parents had Chicano friends, they were third generation American, whose parents had moved there and they are already adults. Then their children were American, but they spoke Spanish. We had all that.

Well, graffiti. We used to love writing on the walls. Or, I don't know, smoking marijuana. Things like that. Not like damaging or killing people, nothing like that. But more like the lighter stuff. Especially my white friends, they were the ones that really had the marijuana. We didn't know where to get that. My black friends, well they were more into the hip hop and graffiti culture. So, I thought that was pretty cool, and I would go in the library and started just searching books about it. I said, "Okay, it's normal." There were like what you call crews, depending on which area that you lived. For example, this is the Centro so all the little kids from the Centro would hang out and they would go compete with the people from uptown and things like that. I guess that was just it.

I lived in Arkansas, so I remember a lot of people from California started coming in. A lot of people from Chicago started coming in. So, There was like a lot of activities going on. I just thought it was part of just being a normal teenager because including my, I don't want to discriminate, but my white friends, they were going through other things as well, so I was like, "Oh, it's just this normal thing." My black friends, they were doing similar things, so I didn't think it was only Mexicans. I thought it was just in general.

Then after high school, when I got pulled over, they brought me to county and took me to prison. I said, "Okay, so it's real. I am illegal." Then after I fought my case and I came back out, that's when I really started to say, "Okay, yes, I am illegal. I am undocumented and I need to do something about it." I guess back then the easiest way was to get married with someone and they could fix you up. But I was 18 years old. I said, "No, I'd rather go back to Mexico." At the same time, I wanted to learn about my culture.

I said, "Hey, I think I should be doing that. I'm not sure." Then once I just got pulled over and I said, "Oh, I'm American. I've been here my whole life. I have my documents." They actually told me, "Well, you're right about some things, but wrong about different things. Yes, you have been here your whole life, but you didn't cross legally into the States. That's why” I said, "Oh, okay. So, we are illegal." That's when I confirmed it, I guess. In the back of my mind, I thought I was, but I never actually officially heard it or knew about it.

Yes, of course. My grandfather was originally born in Texas. He came to Mexico when he was only seven years old. I didn't know I was illegal because I thought that my family had moved to a different part of the planet. I didn't think it was a bad thing. Of course, you see in the news, you start seeing people getting deported. I didn't understand it, but I somehow thought I was. I never asked my parents about it. We never really spoke about it. All my friends, of course, they were American.

They were super, super happy. He was actually the first generation of our family to go to college. He wasn't able to finish because school was very expensive, and he didn't have a scholarship so it was very difficult for our parents. And as for my father got deported, well it was even more difficult for him to continue studying.Laila: But he was like the straight-A student. Very smart, very dedicated. His last year of high school he was actually taking university classes. He was in trigonometry and all of that, taking that in his last year of high school, when most of them weren't even close to that. He was a very hard worker at school, but he didn't have the chance to stay. Specifically, because it was a lot more expensive for immigrant people to go to school than for people born in the States.

Yeah. It's being rejected from the States and from your home country because even if you do have a high school degree here, they don't think it's valid unless you go and have the institution here in Mexico validate those studies. If you don't do that, it's like your paper's not worth anything. So, it is on both sides. Getting rejected from the States and getting rejected from your own country where you should have it a little bit easier to find a job, to find housing, to find, I don't know, even a decent meal. So, it should have the Mexico government thinking a lot more on our own returning migrants.

Yeah, most likely the opposite. When you get deported you can't bring anything with you, it's not like you can bring your house with you [Chuckles]. We had our house in the States, it was ours. Well, it was my mom's. She had bought it and she was paying for it but when we got deported, my brothers weren't able to continue paying it, so it got taken away. So my mom said, "It's not like I could have brought it over here. If I could've bought it over here I would have because it was mine." She said all of our hard work and all of our, everything we gave up to have something of our own, it just completely went away.

I think the government here in Mexico also thinks that if you are coming from the States, you're made of money. And they think that you will have everything resolved, and you have everything on a silver platter because you come from the States. And it's nothing like that.

I was about two. I was about two years old, before we went to the States. That was another reason why my dad decided to go to the States, because he saw that and he said, "You can't have progress here because if they see that you have something new, if other people see that you have something that you have barely bought or something, they're going to want it and they're going to want to take it away." And to leave your family, or to have your father get killed over a car, it sounds stupid to me, but it's a reality a lot of people face. To get shot down for a car, a motorcycle, for a phone. For a phone. I mean, it's a phone. A lot of people take it for granted, but if you walk around with your phone in hand, you'll get robbed at gunpoint for it. A lot of people don't see that or don't understand that. That a lot of migrant families leave because it is very violent in their home countries. And that's something that I would like for them to try to understand, just a little bit. A lot of violence is just scary, and you wouldn't want your kids to get robbed at gunpoint outside of their middle school because, I don't know, some guys just want their phone. So, yeah [Chuckles].

A lot of people are like, “Oh it's you guys don't pay taxes, you guys don't do this, you guys don't do that.” And it's like, well if you guys gave us a chance, we would definitely do all of that. And it would be a lot better for a lot of people, I guess, to be there legally and be able to work. Be able to do everything the right way. So I would honestly just think of the government, thinking up better ways for immigrant families to be able to apply for citizenship. A lot of the families that I knew and that were there, they never did anything wrong. They were never, they'd never had a record, specifically for the fear of getting deported, they did everything by the law. And a lot people that have a residency or that were born in the States—I used to think this way—they didn't really take advantage of the things that they had. A lot of the students that were in my high school, they would strive and they would fight for scholarships. They would fight to get into schools and all of that. And a lot of people that are born in the States, they just take it for granted, and they're just like, “Oh it's there, it's whatever.” And for a lot of immigrant kids it’s like, “No, that's everything to us. It's everything to us specifically, because we know what it's like to have absolutely nothing.” For us, it is a lot. It is very difficult for us to understand. Why would you not take advantage of that

A lot of them. I do, I do believe that. A lot of them go to the States looking for a better future for them and their kids, to give their kids something that they couldn't have.

I would say, the fear that I have here because probably with ICE, you know that you're going to be detained and deported. Here, you don't know if you're going to go back home. You don't know if you're even going to make it back home. In the news, constantly, there are women being found dead, beaten, shot. Even when you go into the public transportation, constant fear of having someone get in and shoot a gun. It's constant where I live. Public transportation is probably the worst thing you could go on because it's constant. The people getting on there to rob other people—they just shoot without even thinking twice. They shoot you and they don't care.Laila: So, it's probably a lot scarier here [Chuckles] than in the States. In the States, you know you may get detained, you may get deported and that's that. But here you're just scared for your life, completely.

I would like to. I honestly would. I would probably look for a legal way to get back in because it's really hard going in illegally. So for me, if I were to go back, I would definitely try to find a legal way to go back in. So that that way, I don't have to live with the constant fear of having to hide from the police, or hide from ICE, or hide from anybody.

Not after a while. I was completely in to going to school, but they wouldn't accept any of my papers that I had from the States. I have a lot of, how do you say, grades and all of that.

Yeah, so we had to leave. Later we knew that if they would have called the cops, we could have probably fought back, legally because they can't physically hit my mom if they're an employee. We were just scared, they scared us out of doing anything by telling us that they were going to call ICE.Lizzy: Of course you'd be scared. How old were you when that happened?Laila: I was around eight. I was around eight years old when that happened. We never went back there. Later the store closed completely.

"I don't want to go back to school if that means putting you at risk, or putting one of my brothers at risk, I just don't want to go back."

My high school's attendance dropped drastically from 2,500 kids to not even a thousand because they started raiding the schools spontaneously. Just, they wouldn't even tell anybody, and that sheriff started it all in Arizona.

They still did it and if you refused to answer, they would still take you in. It was just mostly a lot of kids leaving school through back doors, through the fields, the baseball fields, all of that. They were just jumping the fences and leaving because we were really scared to get stopped. I remember I had to tell my mom to stay away from the school because this was happening. And I actually had a friend who was born in the States and her parents were there legally who offered to take a couple of kids home because they saw that everything that was happening and that they were stopping, like relentlessly, people. Just asking for papers, and so they had to carpool a couple of kids home because their parents couldn't come close to the school.

had

So you just came home from school one day and he was already taken away?Laila: Yeah, he was already taken away.Lizzy: Were you able to visit him in detention?Laila: No, we weren't since we didn't have any sort of paper that let us go in, or we weren't residents. We didn't have a visa, we didn't have anything.Lizzy: You had to have papers like that in order to visit a family member?Laila: Yeah, in detention center. Or you would also be detained. So, we lived for about eleven months before he got physically deported back to Mexico.Lizzy: That's a long time to be kind of waiting, not knowing.Laila: Yeah. I didn't even go back to school at that point. I was in high school and my high school got raided a couple of times.

the

was

They're a lot older, I'm the youngest of five. They stayed, they were able to work and find a place to stay and be a little bit more independent than I was able to at sixteen. Once I came back it was just mostly me by myself with my parents.Lizzy: How long ago was that? How old are you now?Laila: I'm twenty-four. Actually, it was quite a while ago. It's been about nine years since I've been back.