Habits and conventions play important roles in deciding how we see something.
Yes
Habits and conventions play important roles in deciding how we see something.
Yes
He explains this is only possible once it’s “false mystery and false religiosity” created by its monetary value.
Yes and this becomes a bigger issue in Episode 3
How can we make art accessible to the everyone without losing its silence and stillness and without manipulation?
Good question
Berger describes this from a strictly visual sense but it remains just as relevant for all of our senses of the world. The significance of this perspective in terms of painting is that our visual perspective of a painting defines our reality of the meaning behind the artwork.
Well put
modern perspective.
Interesting term. What do you mean by this?
hat means external factors like environment, the presentation, the technology belief and religion interprets what we see is different from what we understand.
Yes
would say that reproduction of art can be adjusted to fit the desired context without any additional words needed.
Yes
Question #2
yes
The origin of the reason for seeing some art pieces, that we can see in galleries nowadays, were related to the habits and conventions of back then society. I liked the example Berger used, concerning the art pieces as an integral part of an architectural structure. In particular, the renaissance church and its icon. The atmosphere and surroundings were closely corresponding with the artwork. Thereby the viewer could perceive the overlap of perception in addition. Nowadays, people are rather appreciating the beauty, craft, or the enormous historic and preservational value of the art. I perceived the video as the motivation that we should think about the meaning of things in general. To learn to analyze and be able to recognize the real meaning of everything around us to avoid preoccupation and bias.
This is true, but also think about it in terms of how our cultural and social experiences shape how we see things.
he idea of “talking with reproductions” is sort of lost on me and I’m not sure I understand it
Think about it in terms of how images circulate to communicate and persuade. Advertising is probably the most obvious use.
Additionally, when seeing art on a screen the viewer can’t zoom in and focus on specific parts of the art.
You can though
With the transfer of pictures of artworks taken from one place to another, their meaning is modified without intention. It is used in more than one content and in more than one place at the same time, so it loses its first meaning board, and this is what Berger said. A specific painting can be imagined and given more than one sound perception. And that is what Berger has also tried
Say a bit more here. How does modifying the meaning of images make them into a ind of language?
The camera transferred any artwork to be seen around the world. Not just where it is displayed in museums and the official exhibition spaces visible, but we can see them as pictures on any TV screen, book, or newspaper. And Berger added that seeing the painting in place and narrating the original version and you know that it is what people are copying is another kind of experience. And also mediating the image and giving it a close look with silence makes us realize the meaning of the painting in another way. Also, we can see accurate details inside a painting that cannot be seen from any photos.
Yes
And every time the concept of the painting was changing.
Yes, but say more about how it changed
The reason why John Berger describes the reproductions of the painting is that the art can lose its artistic value and its meaning to the people who are looking at the art from their home instead of looking at it in the original painting in the museum.
You're part way there. Think about what Berger says in the scene with the children.
The difference is that the television screen gives you a few minutes to ponder and see the art it gives you little time to think about what you see then it throws you away to a commercial which leads you to lose your train of thought. When you are in a museum or in a book you have time to look over the painting as long as you want, and nothing is interrupting you from giving you an idea of what the painting is giving to you.
Interesting, and yes, this is one of many differences.
John Berger argues that the way we see art will be different for the way other people might look at it, but when we add convention it can change other people’s ways of looking at the artwork it can lead to adding more questions than answers the second guess of what they once say adding more to it. This is important for many reasons as it can help you find a different message that a person might see in the art which will lead to agreeing and disagreeing with what you see, sometimes you second guess yourself on what you see in the art, however you leave with more questions than answer there are many ways to understand an artwork but none of them are incorrect.
I'm trying to get at how we bring our own experiences--social and cultural habits, etc.-to our viewing of images.
According to Berger, cameras have completely changed our sense of perception because it helps to see such icons in the home. The images come to you through an image of painting which travels. He explained how the images he standing in the studio travel and and appears on screen the meaning of a painting no longer reside in its unique painted surface which it is only possible to see in one place at one time its meaning or a large part of its has become transmittable. Further he illustrates camera work of art transmittable has multiplied its possible meaning and destroyed its unique original meaning. Berger experience of being in the presence of an authentic art–at a museum, for instance–in term of “stillness” and “silence” is pureness because these things are important things in paintings. Painting as a whole is simultaneous. It is silent and still because their meaning in no longer attached to them but has become transmittable paintings lend themselves to easy manipulation.Painting themselves in the images is silent still. On the television or in a screen are never still and in a sense the pages of a book are never still but it demonstrates the silence and the stillness of a painting can be very striking.
yes
The uses of cameras help to see a mile away and how the use of cameras leads towards the creation of a fresh perception of the art. He added that with the invention of the camera we can view art everywhere outside of its intended environment as a part of building, museum, church and so on .However, in a modern perspective we are conditioned to see but as we lose its original purpose .
Good point.
rger said the reproduce painting become a form of information. The way re produce picture use to convey massage or part of advertisement to see other product. They became open to interpret based on what we see before, after or next to the reproduce painting. we shape the meaning of a reproduce painting based on the way it presented to us.
Yes
picture everyday
Say more about how your experience with these images--as a constant presences--were different from people before the camera who had to make pilgrimages to see them.
When Berger said that the process of seeing is not “natural”, that it is shaped by habits and convention he mean the way we see everything around us is based on our reality and perspective. When we see an art our eyes and mind try to understand the meaning of art based on what we see in our daily life. our knowledge of our surrounding, our age and experience of communication, the way we try to understand and acknowledge other perspective is the reason the way we see and understand art. Our perspective on art also depend on how easily it is accessible to us. An art can have any kind of meaning but the way we interpret is based on our view on life not from the artist point of view.
Yes, and consider this from the artist's point of view.
uses on social media to express ideas or comic
Yes
The camera changed our senses of perception because the camera can copy the painting but the camera can’t copy the detail s on the painting the painters draw their artwork with specific details that showed in the painting had meaning. seeing an artwork in a museum different from seeing it on a screen or in a book has a different feeling that made you focus on the painting detail. And also you visit the museum to feel and do see the painting. On the other hand, you didn’t pay attention to the painting on the screen or the book you only care about the reading. In addition, you take silent moments with a painting that made you feel the theme of the painting.
Interesting, but also consider some of the advantages the camera offers.
Berger means when he says that the process of seeing is not “natural,” that it is shaped by habits and conventions because everyone has a different living environment and we judge under many circumstances such as affection of our social vision on us, relationships, our customs, and traditions. Everyone has their own thought. also, we can see in one painting maxed feeling between happiness and sadness at the same time, I think that based on the viewer’s attitude or behavior can impact how to see or feel toward the painting.
Yes, also consider this from the fact that the artist also manipulates and shapes what the viewer sees.
urchasing an original one.
It's not necessarily this specific. It's that images have been loosened from their original contexts and we can put them to any use we want, including in service to ads, etc.
a deeper intimacy with it.
It's interesting that you put it this way because I think most people would see it from the opposite point of view, that it's more intimate to see the original "authentic" work. But, I can see what you're saying, especially in light of the fact that we can get essentially any image we want any time we want it on our phones.
erger says the process of seeing is not “natural” but that it’s shaped by habits and conventions because every individual has a different perspective on how they see things. Like it said in the video the eye is like a narrow lighthouse going in. The eye can only see what is in front and depending on the person many habits can change the way they see things. Habits is an action an individual likes to do repetitively and this can lead to the way they perceive events or people. Conventions can be influenced by the specific event or character, items, etc. They shape the way we see things by the way it impacts on feels, mind, beliefs, likes or dislikes. This is significant because a viewers perspective had a lot to do with the way they think, feel and will say about an artwork. They can see it completely differently than what the painter intended to show and say.
Yes, great job.
Part 3. By saying reproductions of paintings can become a form of information Berger is saying that the images can be used to convey a certain idea or narrative. This information could be further manipulated by what comes before, along side or after the images. He then goes on to say that this type of manipulation can be seen as talking. The images and how they’re presented could be seen as words in a dialogue used for many different purposes. Some of these purposes may include selling something, promoting an idea or movement, or educating people.
Yes, good job.
Part 2. According to Berger the camera has changed our senses of perception because now we could not only see things that we could never see before, but we could also see them in different ways. Regarding artwork the camera could reproduce images in any size, anywhere and for any purpose. As for the “stillness” and “silence”, which he attributes to viewing art in a museum, what he means is that this experience goes beyond just what people teach about art. In fact he goes on to say that it seems that viewing art in this manner connects the moment in time the painting represents with the moment in time in which you are viewing it. He then adds that this experience almost makes one question how we measure time itself. He also says the reason why this type of viewing is different from seeing art in a book or on screen is because the latter two mediums are never still, and always moving.
Yes, this is a double-pronged effect: 1. the camera opens up infinite possibilities for us to view and alter images. 2. it also robs the original "authentic" image of its aura, or what Berger identifies as its "silence and stillness."
Part 1. By saying that seeing is not natural and that it is shaped by habit and conventions Berger means that what we see is not just the object or image itself but rather our view or mindset of the image or object we are looking at. Our view or mindset is influenced by many things some of which are our environment, our upbringing, our societal status, our age, our gender, our mental state and society’s opinion on how we are supposed to view and perceive something. The list can go on and on and it is basically the sum total of our experiences in life and society’s norms which influence how we view or see things. And because of this, different people will view the same piece of art differently.
Yes, exactly right.
Especially with the popularity of social media and usage of photoshop, everything can be a material for memes and advertisements, including art. So, the meanings of artworks become transmittable according to the topic of people using it.
Take this a bit further. How does this make images a kind of language?
logic filter. For example, if we put a purple filter in front of a camera, every photo we take with it would be purplish. Likely to this example, the way people see is affected by their emotions and thought at the moment.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
John Berger means when paintings become a form of information it is showing that the paintings is showing a significant i people that they want to copy the paintings the visually seen that intrigued them. John Berger means when he says talking with reproductions is that he wants art to be visually used everywhere and how people will think or feel when they see it.
No, look again at the section of the video when Berger speaks with the children.
the real mood
What is this?
changed
Yes, but how?
John Berger means when he says the process of seeing its not natural is when you see painting and you just focus on one particular object or thing that strikes you but you don’t see the whole picture itself. The camera really helped us see the habits and convection the way we look at things because it help to see deeper what earth loos like. It is significant when we think about art work for viewers because it maybe hope or escape and thinking bigger out of the box and making the happy.
Not exactly. 1. The ways we view images are informed by our experiences--how we were raised, our cultural identifications, etc.--and 2. how the artist has shaped our perspective in creating the work.
John Berger argues that the way we see art depend in our habits and conventions. Not everyone has the same thoughts when see art, some people may see some details that others won’t see. Now this is how habits influence in the way we see painting. For example, Berger presented some art to explain how a different perspective can change the meaning on a painting. If I go to the museum to see painting,
Yes, but also consider how the artist factors into this equation.
Berger’s states that painting can become a form of information. Berger emphasized reproduction makes the meaning of works of art ambiguous. This is not negative, it is necessary. The production of works of art can be used by anybody for their own purposes. The art book depends upon reproductions. For instance, children or adults pin up reproductions alongside snapshots. The works of art are reproducible, theoretically be used by anybody in art books, magazines, films or within gift frames in living rooms. The means of reproduction are used politically and commercially to disguise or deny what their existence makes possible
Great points!
A large part of seeing is based on habit and convention. Today we see the art of the past as nobody saw it before. We perceive it in a different way. This difference can be illustrated in terms of what was thought of as perspective. Painting of the tradition used the convention of perspective. The convention of perspective is unique to European art and which was first established in early Renaissance. The conventions called those appearances reality. Perspective makes the single eye the center of the visible world. According to the convention of perspective there is no visual reciprocity. The painting on the wall like a human eye, can only be in one place at one time. Perspective makes the single eye the center of the visible world
Yes!
think the form of information is an important way to spread and teach the people knowledge.
But, how do images work in this way?
The appearance of the camera has changed our perception because the camera can copy the painting so that everyone can see it, but the camera can’t copy all the details. Some pictures can only show a part of the painting. Now we can easily watch the painting at any place and time. So we also reduce the number of exhibitions and museums. Because it’s very convenient to see on the mobile phone Any painting you want to see. However, the details and emotions that can only be found in the original works cannot be transmitted through the copied pictures
Yes!
Because everyone grows up in a different living environment, it can make us see things in different ways and express them differently. Cultural background and the living background will affect our ideas. Works of art mean that the audience can objectively feel the artist’s life or the feelings they want to express, and can also be used to inherit and teach us some experiences and lessons
Yes, but also consider the artist's role in manipulating perspective.
it is a true record of the complete image, and painting is to use certain techniques to express emotions
I'm not sure that a camera presents a more "realistic" image. Think about the ways the photographer manipulates and constructs the image.
However, people like to evaluate from their own perspective and experience
But also consider the ways the artist manipulates the viewer
The relation between what we see and what we know is never settled. Each evening we see the sun set. We know that the earth is turning away from it. Yet the knowledge, the explanation, never quite fits the sight. The child looks and recognizes before it can speak.
Be sure to mark where you are quoting and where your own words are.
Berger explains that, with reproduction, meaning can be changed and a painting can be used by anyone to convey many different meanings
And, to add to this, the production of these meanings has been assumed by more and more people as the possibility to reproduce images has developed.
‘The invention of the camera changed not only what we see but how we see it. It has even changed how we see the paintings of the past’. Berger explains that an original painting can only be seen in one place at a time, and often, paintings were created for display in a specific building. The camera means that we can now see a painting anywhere, in any size and it can be reproduced for any purpose. When we look at an image on our computer screens, say of a painting, we see it with reference to its new environment: we see it in our room, surrounded by our things, and it is placed in the context of our lives. The original painting, however, still exists and can be viewed in a different context. This context informs our viewing of the painting, just as its new position on our computer screen does. We understand an image or painting presented in a gallery as an original and as worthy of serious attention, simply because it is there. Berger says that such an image ‘is beautiful for that alone’. He says that the beauty of such a painting is dependent upon it being a genuine original. Its value as an original is a ‘substitute for what the painting lost when the camera made it reproducible’. In the context of a gallery, we see the painting as still and silent, which is impossible on a computer screen. Berger says that the ‘stillness and silence’ of a physical painting can be ‘very striking’. The video at this point is muted to try to copy the feeling of stillness and silence of an original painting. I was surprised to become consciously aware of just how much noise is generated by my computer, and how much movement could be seen on my screen in the flickering and tiny movements of light as I watched. To appreciate the stillness, Berger says, one has to view the original since even the turning of pages in a book creates movement.
Great job!
Berger suggests that what we see ‘depends on habit and convention’ and is not, as we might think, simply natural or objective. He explains that if we look now at a 19th century painting, we see it as it has never been seen before we bring to our viewing of it, our personal life experiences and the context in which it is viewed. Our understanding of what we’re seeing doesn’t always goes with what we’re seeing in front of us. We can attempt to capture what we see, reproducing or recreating it for others so that we can try to understand how to perceive the world. To do so is to create an image. “ An Image is a sight in which has been recreated or reproduced”. In this quote, we seen what John Berger is talking about “ A way of seeing”. It’s a brief copy of how the creator saw the world. Images can preserve things as they once were and preserve how their creator once saw their subject. What really makes images extremely powerful is its value or how much it costs.
Excellent!
original vibes what they see in front of an original painting. As a result, original paintings lost their original meaning. Berger pointed out that an original painting can only be seen in one place at a time. Now we can see any painting at any place in different situations. So it just changed our thought what we should see in a museum with stillness and silence. With stillness and silence, we can focus our mind to understand the meaning of the painting. On the hand, paintings in books and magazines has different perspective. Here paintings are used for delivering specific information or message. The reason is now the movement of the camera changed the meaning of a painting completely such as “an allegorical figure becomes a pretty girl” what the video showed.
On the one hand, this makes images more available; on the other it strips images of their original aura.
Berger says that the process of seeing is not “natural,” that it is shaped by habits and conventions. The reason is our daily activities/lifestyle shape our thinking/mind and perspective centers everything. A painting can be seen in different meaning for different age, such as between an adult and a child. A child and an adult have different life experiences. So, an adult can see painting in more detail than a child and it’s not natural. However, Berger described a point of view as reality shaped from the existence of a structure by our eye. Therefore, eye shows the world to us and impact on the tendency of our improvement. Then our tendency what reads the meaning of art.
Think about this from two perspectives: 1. we bring our own points of view--structured by our upbringing, social position, etc.--to the process of viewing images; 2. the artist also manipulates and shapes our perspective through the creation of the work of art.
Berger then mentions that talking with reproductions can manipulate an image into a different perspective by what comes before being handed the reproduction. These purposes include selling something, promoting an idea, or educating other individuals.
Yes!
Our viewpoints are influenced by our environment, upbringing, age, gender, etc. The reason I write, it is because our perspective comes from many forms of standards created by society’s opinion on what is a social norm.
Yes!
What you see it’s always influenced by the characteristics of the environment (music, place, things around it) in which you are, and by our background (culture, level of education, experiences); we may not realize it but that can change for complete how we see a painting, for example a kid will not see a painting in the same way an adult see it, the kid might point at physical details of the painting while the adult might try to analyze the painting.
Yes!
Reproduction of painting is a form of information because we can change or manipulate the meaning of the art. For example, in the video with the painting by Caravaggio; if we use Italian opera or religious choral, the meaning of the painting change. He said in the episode 1 that pictures can be uses as words and we can talk with them.
yes!
arranged.
Exactly right!
in the video Berger think that before or when seeing something, we arrange in our mind how we want this thing to be. That mean we don’t see art how it is, but we see it how we want it to be in in our reflection.
This isn't necessarily a conscious process; much of it is conditioned by our upbringing, culture, social position, etc.
Saying reproduction of painting can become a form of information because the image can be used to convey, persuade a certain ideas to the viewer or narrate an information .
Also, images can be placed into direct conversation with each other,
According to Berger , the Camera has changed our senses of perception because not only it transferred any artwork to be seeing everywhere in the world at the same time but it could also permit people to see what they wouldn’t have chance to see and they could interpret it in different ways at the same time.Regarding artwork the camera could reproduce images in any size ,anywhere and for any purpose.
Exactly right
Berger said that seeing is not natural and it is shaped by habits and conventions because what we see is not just the object or image itself but our view or mindset of image or object we are looking at .our view or mindset is influenced by environment, society in which we lived , age ,gender, mentality and the way everybody is supposed to view and perceive things .That mean people will view and have different opinion or interpretation of a same piece of Art differently
Yes
this is the reproduction of the meaning of any painting we make new meaning for any painting to serve our new purpose.
Say a little more here. What is our "new purpose" and how does it create meaning?
the painting will have the meaning of what we see beside it or what comes after it, or what purpose it been used for
Here, you mean a succession of images?
with the camera, things changed and the meaning of the paintings is changed. with a camera, they can manipulate paintings by adding sounds and movement to them so the meaning change if you add opera sound, an argument sound, or zooming in on part of the painting and leave the rest of it and by doing this the whole meaning of a painting will change completely
Esactly
the paintings are something from our life
Close, but think about this more in terms of how the artist controls and shapes what the spectator sees.
Financial considerations are equally relevant to the challenge posed by the rise of global studies. University administrators are likely to see establishing or expanding global studies courses or centers as a cost-efficient way to consolidate area disciplines: cover the world and internationalize the curriculum, for less.
How does "global learning" @lagcc fit this criticism?
faces
Test
eventually
International
and
Conjunction
literally
Literally
Association
his
Hypothes.is is fun
This is a cool video. Here's another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAw9eXXVwfM
Blake, or The Huts of America
How does Martin Delany's representation of religion differ from other representations of religion we've seen?
WALKER'S APPEAL, IN FOUR ARTICLES; TOGETHER WITH A PREAMBLE, TO THE COLOURED CITIZENS OF THE WORLD, BUT IN PARTICULAR, AND VERY EXPRESSLY, TO THOSE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WRITTEN IN BOSTON, STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS, SEPTEMBER 28, 1829.
In the "Preamble" and "Article I," how does Walker use religion and history to make his argument?
British constitution-alism a`la Mansfield was a threat to slaveholders’ property and the power ofcolonial legislatures to protect or regulate slavery or anything else.
Interprets Somerset as a way of keeping slave power, not necessarily slavery, out of the metropole. Compare with D.C. and American slavery.
Surely there must be a better way. .Needed are approaches that can locate digital work within print traditions, and print traditions within digital media, without obscuring or failing to account for the differences between them. One such approach is advocated here: it goes by the name of Comparative Media Studies.^ As a concept, Comparative Media Studies has long inhabited the humanities, including comparisons of manuscript and print cultures, oral versus literate cultures, papyri versus vellum, immobile type versus moveable type, letterpress versus offset printing, etc. These fields have tended to exist at the margins of literary culture, of interest to specialists but (with significant exceptions) rarely sweeping the humanities as a whole. Moreover, they have occupied separate niches without overall theoretical and conceptual frameworks within which Comparative Media Studies might evolve.
To evaluate the impact of digital technologies, we may consider in overview an escalating series of effects.
This is one of the important ways in which information differs from knowledge, which always requires a knowing subject — an individual, a collectivity, or at the limit a text, which serves as a proxy for its author.
"Objectivity" is a complex notion here. It refers, first, to a kind of perspectival objectivity, the impression that information gives us its content in the "view from nowhere," without reference to private states or privileged points of view. This perspective-neutrality is the feature of information that gives it a more-or-less uniform exchange value, so that a piece of information that I give you can in principle be as comprehensible or as useful to you as it is to me.
hese claims to inclusiveness in turn permit us to attach a significance to exclusion — to an event that doesn't appearing in the newspaper, a word that doesn't appear in the dictionary, a historic site or restaurant that doesn't appearing in a travel guide, and so on. But of course this kind of claim is only possible when the boundaries of a document or building impose a manifest physical limit on the amount of material it can contain.
What I want to show in this section is how all the properties we ascribe to information — its metaphysical haeceity or "thereness," its transferability, its quantized and extended substance, its interpretive transparency or autonomy — are simply the reifications of the various principles of interpretation that we bring to bear in reading these forms.
What aspect of information is Nunberg eliciting?
he trope is crucial to the claims of enthusiasts of the technology that it will usher in a new and epochal discursive order. We have to believe, that is, that the substance that computers traffic in, "information" in the technical sense of the term, is the same sort of stuff that led to the Reformation and the French Revolution, whether or not contemporaries talked about it in those terms. But the fact is that the use of information that people have in mind when they talk about "the information age" or say that information brought about the Reformation is not
What does he suggest about the importance of making these distinctions?
Agre is certainly right, for example, to say that part of the work that information does for librarians is to flatten and obscure the subjective social topographies of content that are implicit when we speak of the holdings of a library in terms of "literatures."
What feature of how the term "information" is Nunberg highlighting here?
In this essay, I want to show that these metaphors play false to the truth; we are rather in the situation, as Paul Duguid puts it, of breaking the banks and hoping still to have the river.
How do these analogies make Nunberg's point? What is the relationship between form and content that he is getting at?
But there is a difficulty even in speaking of "intertextuality" when the individuation of texts themselves becomes so problematic: what could débordementsignify when there are no bords in the first place?
A brief background on what's at stake with this question: http://faculty.washington.edu/cbehler/glossary/intertex.htm
Electronic publication implies a new calculus of reputation, which I think no one has yet come to grips with.
How so?
But the assumption implicit in that phrase — that the magnitude or breadth of someone's reputation is proportional to its farthest geographical extension — has no relevance in the electronic world, where it takes no greater investment of resources to make a text available to distant readers than to local ones.
Why is this true?
When theorists talk about the power of the new media to make everyone an author, for example, or to provide everyone with universal access to potential audiences of millions of readers, they invoke a notion of authorship and a model of access that is more appropriate to traditional print media than to electronic communication. What is an author, after all, if the new media no longer support the legal status or institutional privileges that have traditionally defined that role? And what real increase is there in the ability of the average citizen to affect public opinion if anyone who wants to gain the attention of a mass audience has to compete for attention with
Does the concept of an "author" make sense in digital environments?
There will be a digital revolution, but the printed book will be an important participant in it.
For the present it's enough to observe that there is nothing in the economics of publishing as a whole or the body of practice surrounding the use of the printed book that militates for its disappearance, even over the long term.
Nothing betrays the spirit of an age so precisely as the way it represents the future.
The second misapprehension is the opposite of the first. It comes from a failure to appreciate, not how durable some features of the material setting will turn out to be, but rather how contingent and mutable are some of the categories of social life.
The first and most obvious comes of taking some recent innovation at the steepest point of its curve and projecting it linearly to a point where it has swept all its predecessors aside.