Exactly. And that collateral damage can return to haunt us.

This is a great final sentence for this post. and you capture something important here. Just because a singular reason is hard to find, doesn't mean things don't make sense or that they are meaningless. As I have been saying in class, entanglement generates meaning and sense. From this mess emerges significant outcomes: meaning, purpose, etc.

This is a great question. Historically, we have certainly used appearance as a way of sorting humans, and, thereby, deeming some humans as less-than or not-quite human. Think about racism as form of using appearance to determine "human-ness."

What is also important to note is that she feels torn, later in the novel, between comfort and familiarity on one hand, and revulsion on the other.

And to yet another complication, there is clearly a connection between the two. That is, is not our appearance, in part, a function of genetics?

Awesome image. Great find!

Good question, but think about how many interactions we have with nonhumans in which asking doesn't happen and isn't possible. Our intestinal microbes don't ask, and neither do we.

Simply put, and as Nikanj puts it, the Oankali are drawn to us.

"Freedom" is an interesting criteria. What I find compelling about the novel is how it challenges this as a criteria. That is, I think there are many things we take or accept as human that aren't the products of freedom. For instance, our emotional responses and our desires are not necessarily things we choose. SO, are the Oankali taking "these away" or are the pointing to how such freedom is possible illusory?

Your being pretty selective here. There are several instances within the story in which Marko, for instance, chooses not the fight. What do you make of those? Perhaps there is room for nuance in your critique of these characters?

You are here presuming a baseline human instinct. That is, you are using a notion of the human you already have to assess what's going on in this comic.

I worry here. Your post, again, seems to be about passing judgement upon the characters.

This isn't quite the case. They also tend to think that violence doesn't do what it claims to do. That is, they argue that violence isn't the answer both because it's unjustifiable and because being a pacifist is often a good way to survive. I.e., being violent doesn't actually protect us.

You have me thinking here about what the connection is between "unclean" and "free." I'm not sure what to make of it, but it's interesting that you connect them here (even if unintentionally).

This is an interesting tension in the novel: between what characters say they want and what their bodies say they want. We are daily aware of this tension. I don't want to take a nap, but my body clearly does.

Indeed, it seems like that have no real concept of freedom. I suspect this is because they aren't, near as we can tell, hierarchical. Would we need a concept of freedom if we didn't live within a hierarchy?

What a great response to a book.

Nice caveat here.

What is interesting here is how strongly Paul feels a desire to communicate. How does this desire impact or complicate your argument.

Not sure what the connection is here.

Are we losing connection absolutely or only a particular kind of connection? Be more precise in these moments.

But are they talking to strangers? And you are still communicating, yes. I guess what I am asking for more depth here in terms of the distinctions you are making.

I find it also incredibly provocative that "handshake" is a word frequently used to describe such connections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking

In terms of evolution this seems to be the case for most life. It finds a rut that works and stays in it until forced out of by a change in circumstance.

It is interesting to note, as you do, that it is through cooperation, rather than simply acceptance, that Lilith changes. She remains ambivalent throughout the whole novel.

Nicely put.

Two good points, but how are they related. How do the experiences you describe here shape Lilith's experience and help us to make sense of for ourselves?

Great opening paragraph! We can't make sense of Lilith until we really recognize how this story starts for her.

What of the Oankali?

Fascinating word choice. I really like it in light of several other blog posts about the need for relationships and the power of relationships. We have no choice but to choose relationships.

This word gets at what Brian was talking about above.

But isn't Lilith's mantra all about using those abilities until it possible for them to escape, to run?

Nice. Historically, there have been many ways of being human.

Right. The Oankali are in the same boat. They too will be different.

Not better, only different.

I like the way this is phrase. It's probably not for nothing that we are told that Lilith is an anthropology student.

Here's the thing, it's not simply an Oankali baby. And, to orient this post the big question in this class, and the one you beg here, what do you mean by "human"?

Why the quote marks? Do we have any reason to doubt the Oankali?

I like how you traced the theme of trust through this first half of the novel. That said, I'd like to have seen more payoff. What does this emphasis on trust suggest to you? What can we take away from this novel?

Trust, you're suggesting, is a kind a currency?

I really dig this.

Nicely put.

Instead of moving from quote to quote, work with and from one aspect of the novel. You aren't really developing a thesis here about the novel; just marking things that jump out at you. Go the extra step of explaining why this aspect interests you and how it speaks to some aspect of the course.

I am not that this is the case. In many ways, Lilith seems overwhelmed with grief.

As the Oankali point out, they don't know plan on being better or worse, only different, which is anyone's guess.

This makes sense within the novel. The Oankali, driven by the urge to trade, are very upfront about what they are up. Humans, who seem intent on controlling or denying their urges, are more withholding.

Great connections here.

Certainly, there is some fear mixed in with their fascination. Makes me think of how many humans respond to fire.

You are on to something here with this distinction between "human" and "person": do we always or necessarily want to see these as the same? Additionally, the Oankali, even though they seem to be calling the shots, are very much in the same boat: they will change as well and be other than they are. And, as Nikanj suggests at several points, the Oankali feel driven to connect to humans, which suggests that they are just "coerced" or "compelled" as their human partners.

Great point. As I commented over on Hillary's post, it is amazing how quickly most readers settled into the Oankali perspective.

Very provocative title, which does really get at some of the boundaries we find challenged within this novel.

Perhaps it's better to say that "healthy relationships" cannot be forced.

Nice!

Well said. This novel very much complicates the idea of protection.

Interesting connections and claims: we struggle with other to survive together.

I like this title: it focuses not on what counts as a relationship and instead focuses on what relationships might do.

Nicely put. It's not unimportant that we are experience this story from the safety of this world.

Solid conclusion.

Strong word here.

You are on to something here. There is for many readers this same tension. I too found myself quickly accepting the Oankali as benevolent. Even after having read the book several times and understanding and respecting Lilith's responses (and the responses of others), I still find myself asking "what's the big deal?" For me, this is one the more compelling parts of the novel: how quickly and easily Butler can get us into the state of mind of the alien and to push our own understanding of our own limits.

A new Garden of Eden as it were.

Such as?

Where are getting this reading from. It wasn't a "select" group that was saved. They saved whomever they could. Only certain humans will go back, however. And those going back won't be "super humans" so much as hybrids.

Is this really the goal for anyone. The Oankali are pretty clear that they only imagine this world will be different rather than better or worse.

This is almost entirely summary. Note also that your blog still has no title. If both this post and the blog generally, you need to develop and add some unique perspective.

Well put. And this seems as true of the Oankali as it does human.

It certainly is an ambiguous (another interesting word) situation.

"Engrossed" is a great word here. The Oankali begin to shape not only her body but her attention and her attitudes. She thinks only of them.

It's a reminder of what we often ignore about the human.

Nicely put.

Good point. I wonder at your use of "transcend." As we continue reading do we actually see transcendence or difference?

There are some interesting connections back to Blindsight here. Would we, at this point, even be aware of these abilities? Or would it be so seamless as to be unnoticeable?

We could ask, of course, if this is the goal we should have for memories. That is, would "perfect" memory actually be a good thing?

Interesting connections and links here, Brian.

I'm not sure what you mean here. That said, the connection you trace in this paragraph is a good one.

Nicely put. She is chided and challenged by both groups. It's for this reason that I like the title of this trilogy, Lilith's Brood: brood can mean both a group of children and a kind of mental state: one can brood.

This is a really great connection that is certainly at play within this novel. The whole question of assimilation and migration is being asked within Dawn.

This is a great connection, but it has taken a while to get here. None of what you write above connects to or paves the way for this excellent connection, which, because it comes so late, doesn't get fully developed.

I really like this connection. It provides a nice historical perspective. Species don't simply go away; they often, over time, just become something else. Why would we be any different?

Is this flinch about trust? It seemed instinctual and a result of the chemical influence of the Oankali.

Rather than bring up a new topic here, stay focused on the one you develop at the beginning of this paragraph. What is it about the relationship you describe in the first paragraph that helps us make sense of this human fear of difference?

This conclusion doesn't really follow from what you have written above.

The focus on becoming is also a focus of posthuman. Not just what the human is but how the human becomes.

Great connection. Thanks for sharing this website, which works strongly with your post.

Such a great posthuman sentence here. Works really well with the previous two paragraphs.

Excellent quote selection. I like the conversation they have about their use of the word parent as well.

Another great word. Martin Heidegger, a major philosophical thinker of the 20th Century, used the word thrown to describe being. There is a nice resonance here with you use of catapulted.

I really like the word "fashioned" here: it has so many difference meanings that are all potentially at work here.

This is strongly posthuman. Rather than one fundamental difference, can we not explore many differences that all make a difference, and that, furthermore, can change through time.

Great question you pose here.

And we share in common might change, evolve.

I am digging this line of thought: the human not as a definitive thing but rather as a set of qualities. What are the implications of such an understanding: human aliens and inhuman humans?

This is really interesting and, I think, important distinction you make here. Perhaps our anxiety is not becoming less "human" in some abstract sense but in changing as a specific individual.

It.

I like the ethical implication you are here teasing out from Dawn. "Control" is certainly a fraught concept and Dawn attends to this.

Some possible connections to Blindsight. Consciousness either bears witness or gets in the way.

I really dig this direct connection to a classmate's blog. I'd like to see more of this going forward from everyone. And this is a great moment in the novel to zero in on in terms of this post.

There's a great question. How alterable is this?

You said it.

Are we though? Every tornado and hurricane and drought surely begin to suggest otherwise.

But surely humans provide the same rationale for hierarchies.

Lions eat zebras, surely. Any attempt to understand that will be, in part, on us.

We sort of did, in fact. Why the word "chain"? Why not "cycle" for instance.

Is though? We have certainly describe as so.

Wild!

I find this explanation compelling. Hierarchy as humans practice it would really get in the way of the Oankali drive for difference, which they seem compelled to seek.

This surely is a daily struggle.

Excellent connection here. Competing notions of the human are also competing standards of behavior.

This is a great connection: that are idea of what a human is/ought to be determines how we treat humans and those deemed nonhuman. This connection has, of course, historical precedents in terms of things like racism and genocide. Once a group doesn't meet the criteria another group has made for "the human," then violence and other forms of mistreatment follow.

I wonder, given Lilith's eventual connections to the Oankali, if it is human contact specifically or contact more generally. I am thinking of, for instance, animals as companions or pets as members of a family.

Humans feel the drive to connect so strongly that we can form bonds that at times disturb us. Lilith so wants to connect with others, that she overcomes fear and anxiety to do so.

Great connection here, Nora. You're nailing this post.

Compelling connection.

As, I think, begins to be explored in Part III, humans have and need bodies.

Nice opening: connection to the novel and a strong, discernible claim.

Nice connection here. Nora does something similar in her post for the first half of Dawn.

Nice. Weirdly enough, we have all sorts of other freedoms at home. I always though, for example, that dorm life was less free than we typically think. Negotiating sleep and bathroom schedules with strangers sounds like a Kafkaesque nightmare to me.

Very interesting claim. I'm on board.

These questions, which come at the end and don't necessarily connect to what's written above, are interesting, but they don't get unpacked or explored here.

We are constantly adjusting what it means to be human: this is not transhumanism, but posthumanism.

They might also suggest, as posthumanism attends to, that to be human has always been to be in some mediated or modified.

Great point here, and excellent historical parallel.

HA!

Nice. I am so glad you picked up on this detail. The real story is the story that happened underneath this one.

What a great quote.

While I appreciate your struggle, this post doesn't really go anywhere: there's no thesis. I really liked the connection to exercise and fitness, but you didn't really develop that here.

What is interesting here is how the presence of technologies create so many questions and generate so many emotional responses.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Another question is, "why do we feel a desire to differentiate ourselves from everything else?"

Have they been genetically altered? Or is it mechanically altered?

The posthuman focuses more on the question you ask above. It doesn't necessarily entail technology all of the time.

Nicely put.

Sure. But nothing more besides this?

Okay. Cool. But what does this nod do? Dig deeper here.

Some great research here!

They did spend a lot of time together.

Sarasti wasn't chosen by the ship, but I think I understand what you are saying here.

Great point. What harm could a ship do?

But is there some ground where presenting yourself a certain way isn't the same as lying?

Good point. This is why science fiction can be valuable. It's an attempt to really imagine, in as much detail, what things might be like.

What a great question! :)

Here is the thing, though: Siri wants to comfort her. He does care for her. He spends hours researching the best way to talk to her, which strikes me as evidence of his affection for her. In other words, this doesn't strike me so much as a moral failure as it is a failure to communicate.

Very compelling comment here. Shines a spotlight on the value of empathy.

I am really glad somebody attended to this moment in the novel.

There's sort of no real payoff here, accept humans suck.

Reminds me of the story of one of the grandfathers who own Jack Daniels telling his children and grandchildren, "we only sell the shit" as a caution against drinking alcohol.

Surely this is true, but surely it isn't true all the time and everywhere. Why so hard on your fellow humans?

Given what we know about evolution, selfishness seems to play a big part in it. The desire to propagate one's own genetic material.

I love the way the title for this posts pairs with the image!

I really like the way you come back to the novel here. This is a very solid post.

Compelling question. While certainly, it saves lives, you have to wonder how it changes how we value. What unintentional effects could such tech generate?

Consciousness can be overrated in a lot of places.

Do you think this is also what posthumanism is suggesting we do?

The urge to advance must be reflected upon.

Nice. There is an urge at work here. These kinds of projects exert a kind of pull on the imagination.

Glad to see you making these connections.

What's up with the junk code above?

This blog post is largely summary, with some assessment at the end. There's no real connection to a contemporary issue nor is there much analysis.

You gotta dig deeper here.

Nice summary here.

What interesting is that Blindsight suggests that intelligence is automatically linked to a sense of self.

Solid post, man.

Interesting. The desire to transcend blinds us to the present moment, which is what posthumanism attends to.

Perhaps a link? Great connection.

A link would work really well here.

Perhaps, but to return to your opening paragraph, it's not so much that humans are being transcended as they are being replaced, which perhaps isn't quite the same.

Interesting. This make me think of Blindsight as well. There is no reason to assume that position of "top dog" will always be occupied by humans.

Nicely put. Evolution is never settled.

Great question. Will they hurt us? Will they be friends. Will they be bored by us?

Nice observation: so worried about the Aliens are the crew, that mis-take the intelligence of the ship.

We are so focused on our own supposed transcendence that we miss the changes to the nonhumans around us. Transhuman gets at this as well.

Great point, Brian. There is something about its ability to manipulate the crew that suggests consciousness. The presence of manipulation and lying is actually frequently used as a test of intelligence and perhaps consciousness.

Really great connection here. How the ability to live is tightly connected to the distribution of wealth.

They have a kind of gravity. The bigger they get the bigger they can get.

There is certainly a tension here. Each new technology creates its own unique sets of connection and disconnection, distraction and attention.

Great sentence. This is a strong opening paragraph.

What interesting, though, is "human" their behavior appears to be.

This is an interesting argument: that our future as a species might be shaped by a few, interpersonal struggles.

Great point. Also, it seems to be important to the mission that understand and communicate with one another.

I really like the use of Flash Mobs to make this point. I imagine that participants in them don't already know everyone else, yet they are connected.

With respect to your image, how far back do you think we should go?

What if altering ourselves is what it is to be human?

Easy here. No reason to attribute such motives. This is no doubt true, but it is far from the whole story. Dig deeper here.

Interesting paradox here. I'd phrase it along the lines of "If we can’t understand what the human really is, then how can we know we are changing it?

Imagine you are conscious.

Right. The whole concept of meaning would perhaps too disappear. Why would we worry?

Great phrasing here.

Well said. And this is posthuman insight: the idea that cultural constructs and technologies are entangled.

Nice point here. The documentary makes us the present.

It is certainly funny, by a dark heart beats at the center of this story. (Indeed, one possible critique of the story is its default assumptions about competition driving everything. Then again, the monkeys end up on top out of dumb luck.)

In what ways is it already about the world we are living in now. What other sorts of modifications do humans seek. And what causes us to do so. In many ways, the things that push us to modify the human are themselves "human" motivations: the desire to improve oneself, the desire to fit in.

I would have liked to see you forward an answer to this question. What does the novel suggest, as it surely does more than simply pose such questions.

And, furthermore, how be able to select your face changes the nature of "face-to-face" communication?

This aspect of Blindsight really expands the possibilities of what "communication" is.

This connects to my above question about how technology works here as well.

Excellent point here. Could we even add "technology" to this list?

Sure. But you need to make those connections here. And those connections need to go beyond the obvious. That is, there is lots of free shit out there that nobody takes.

This is a great point. It suggests that what makes us human and/or what might define us as human in the future may not be a conscious decision we make for ourselves.

Great links!

If it struck you, then why not develop this into a blog post?

While I do appreciate your feelings on the matter (and agreeing that it is the weakest of the text we will read this semester), I have previously advised against making such judgements a part of your blog post. That is, such observations don't do much to advance our understanding or application of the reading.

I do like this gif, though.