AI does speed up tasks. But if we simply outsource all time-consuming work to AI, we sacrificing our own learning and it will end up taking more time since you will have to edit the AI work.

process by which cells absorb molecules from outside by engulfing them with the cell membrane to form a vesicle

glycoproteins bind to/fuse with host cell membranes, releasing the viruses genetic material

problemas contemporáneos

Introduces the clearance test as a standard method to measure how effectively filter feeders remove particles from water and that by tracking particle depletion to estimate how much water is filtered, based on the assumption of complete retention.

Shows that bacteria are a natural food source for sponges and can support their growth, supporting the choice of E. coli as a tracer, which goes back to the first sentence of the paragraph.

There are both white and black readers in this group. Hughes wants to show how both of these groups can stop Black people from being creative. His goal is to get artists to fight these pressures and make honest art that comes from Black experience.

Hughes shows how the Black community is torn between artistic freedom and politics of respectability. This makes me wonder: should art try to improve the community's image, or should it tell the truth, even if it means showing pain and trauma?

Hughes praises black people from working-class backgrounds for being proud of their culture. This makes me think of how Black elites often criticize modern artists like hip-hop rappers, even though they are adored around the world. Who gets to say what Black art is "good"?

This ties in with W.E.B Du Bois's idea of "double consciousness," which says Black people always see themselves through the eyes of white society. How does internalized racism still affect how people are portrayed in cultural and the media?

In the 1920s, jazz spread around the world from its roots in African American communities. Hughes proudly says that jazz was created by black people, a rejection of white people's attempt to take it over or make it seem less important.

This shows how Black communities divide people into group based on their skin color and social class. Due to the history of slavery, lighter skin was seen as a sign of privilege in the early 20th century. Hughes explains how even black institutions helped to keep racism alive.

Black artist in New York were becoming more well-known during the Harlem Renaissance (1920s), when Hughes is writing. Black artist were under pressure to live up to white expectations due to racism and internalized colorism.

"Nordic" describes the racial characteristics and cultural values of white Northern Europeans. Hughes uses the term sarcastically to show how some Black middle class families admired and attempted to imitate whiteness.

This refers to the pressure to fit in with American mainstream white cultural norms. Hughes uses the phrase to critique how black people are pressured by society to give up their unique cultural identities in order to "fit in."

Total agree. How to have that space in this house without the view into the room then being one of even more clutter/stuff?

This is why I always love when we stay in a small cabin or Airbnb. I'll never forget how viscerally peaceful I felt in that cabin in the Redwoods. It had everything we needed for simple functioning. It's all I wanted. It's why I lament modern life and our large homes and endless possessions. There's way too much for me to forget/lose track of when it's not in front of me.

100%

Reading about myself here

https://warburg.sas.ac.uk/people/marianna-leszczyk

Photo with at least 93 countable boxes visible...

Leszczyk, Marianna. 2025. “How Things Can Be Used: Aby Warburg’s Zettelkästen, Materiality, and Affordances.” The Warburg Institute. https://warburg.sas.ac.uk/news-events/blogs/how-things-can-be-used-aby-warburgs-zettelkasten-materiality-affordances (December 4, 2025).

Somewhat curious of the dates/times of the creation of these tabbed cards. Surely made in the 20th century, but since Warburg was likely creating notes in the late 1800s, where does this sit with respect to the invention of the tab card in 1894 claimed by Progressive Indexing and Filing (Remington Rand, 1950, p205)?

😃

[6] Fritz Saxl, The History of Warburg’s Library (1886-1944) cited in Gombrich 1970, p. 329; Marchand 2023, p. 186; Steiner 2013, p. 155; Wedepohl 2014, p. 389.

It's only in a physical card system one might worry a bit about "best place" for a card. Some of it is down to one's future self being able to find it, but cross-references could have been placed or an amanuensis might have created an exact copy for multiple copies in many locations.

What does Ernst Bernheim have to say on the topic of filing?

"travelling boxes" as analog "back up"

direct evidence?

Al Jolson did Blackface in this movie.

This sentence shows that the writer has actually been to many classrooms and seen really good teachers in all kinds of schools, even in places that outsiders usually think are “bad” or “not enough.” It kind of breaks the easy idea that good education only happens in rich or famous schools, and that poor schools equal poor teaching. It reminds me of how some people think community college or less “prestige” schools must be low quality, but then you meet one prof who change the whole way you think about a subject. My question is, who really has the right to call a school “substandard” if they never sit inside the classroom and watch what happens there?

Angelou is saying that for a Black person in this country, racism is not a surprise but something they expect from childhood, as common and close as the taste of salt in the mouth, and just like too much salt harms the body over time, constant racism quietly hurts people’s lives and health. This image shows how danger can hide inside what feels “normal,” and it makes me think about how I sometimes treat small comments on my accent or background as nothing, even when they sting a little. It pushes me to ask myself, at what point should I stop just swallowing these “salty” moments and start naming them as real harm?

Reform within the education system is possible with the cooperation of educators, the community, and the school administration. Together, these groups can push for changes meant to help students. Maintaining hope that change is possible is also crucial. Reform is possible within time and with the necessary work and effort put into the changes. It is not something that will come about within a few years but over time.

While I do think this would help teachers have more control over their classrooms it would also put on them another responsibility. Teachers are already over worked, and placing this responsibility on them would only give them more work. Unless there is a way to ensure teachers can take this on while delegating other responsibilities to other people, I dont think it would be the best course, at least not yet.

I agree, a lot of students aren't comfortable opening up with their teachers. With smaller classrooms teachers would be able to invest more time developing relationships with their students. This way students would be more willing to reach out to their teachers not only for educational purposes but also to confide in them. Although teachers play a huge role in educating students, schools are often a second home to students and thus educators need to make sure they can help make them feel safe.

Community involvement with schools could help students become more engaged in their learning. My high school was very involved with the community and often hosted events with local community organizations. Because of this we often saw high attendance for school events and a high number of students willing to participate in school activities. I think my school did a good job at involving parents in student lives and made sure they too felt welcomed. In a way, my school was implementing some of the practices in a multicultural education school, but still needed improvements.

This is another place where the victims are constantly blamed for the position they're in. There are a lot of institutional barriers which make it difficult for people to have access to food and shelter. Living is expensive. People cannot afford to pay the necessary money to start renting out a place to live. People aren't in a bad situation because they want to but because it is difficult to get out. Like with the education system, the necessary support needs to be provided to ensure individuals can move past those barriers which are keeping them down.

This is how a lot of funds can be misappropriated. While it is important to provide the necessary funds/resources for programs, the proper training, policies and practices also need to be provided to ensure accurate implementation. The desired outcome will not happen if there is no one there ensuring the funding is going to where it was intended to.

While superintendents in fact don't have all the available resources to implement changes throughout, I think we underestimate how much they can actually do. My local school district often saw superintendents who prioritized the monetization of the education system, granting himself raises whenever he pleased. Despite attending a school that received more than the average resources relative to other schools, there was often a misappropriation of funds. Education itself at times wasn't prioritized, instead publicity was. It is necessary to keep the superintendents in check to ensure they are doing what is best for the student population.

It is most definitely true that individual teachers can make a difference in the lives of students. I attribute a lot of my current. success to individual teachers who played a special role in my education. Given that individual teachers can make such a huge impact, one can only imagine the possible impact when all teachers and the education system as a whole attempts to make an impact in student lives. While the support from individuals is reassuring, community support plays a bigger impact. Only as a whole can educators and the education system make a difference at the scale need.

eLife Assessment

This study tested the specific hypothesis that age-related changes to hearing involve a partial loss of synapse connections between sensory cells in the ear and the nerve fibers that carry information about sounds to the brain, and that this interferes with the ability to discriminate rapid temporal fluctuations in sounds. Physiological, behavioral, and histological analyses provide a powerful combination to test this hypothesis in gerbils. Contrary to previous suggestions, it was found that chemically-induced isolated synaptopathy (at similar levels as observed in aged gerbils) did not result in worse performance on a behavioral task measuring sensitivity to temporal fine-structure, nor did it produce degradations in auditory-nerve fiber encoding of fine structure. Aged gerbils showed degraded behavior and stronger than normal envelope responses, but temporal fine-structure coding was not affected; interpreted by the authors as suggesting central processing contributions to aging effects on discrimination. These findings are important for advancing our knowledge of the mechanistic bases for age-related changes to hearing, and the evidence provided is solid with the results largely supporting the claims made and minor limitations related to possible confounds discussed in reasonable depth.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

The authors investigate the effects of aging on auditory system performance in understanding temporal fine structure (TFS), using both behavioral assessments and physiological recordings from the auditory periphery, specifically at the level of the auditory nerve. This dual approach aims to enhance understanding of the mechanisms underlying observed behavioral outcomes. The results indicate that aged animals exhibit deficits in behavioral tasks for distinguishing between harmonic and inharmonic sounds, which is a standard test for TFS coding. However, neural responses at the auditory nerve level do not show significant differences when compared to those in young, normal-hearing animals. The authors suggest that these behavioral deficits in aged animals are likely attributable to dysfunctions in the central auditory system, potentially as a consequence of aging.To further investigate this hypothesis, the study includes an animal group with selective synaptic loss between inner hair cells and auditory nerve fibers, a condition known as cochlear synaptopathy (CS). CS is a pathology associated with aging and is thought to be an early indicator of hearing impairment. Interestingly, animals with selective CS showed physiological and behavioral TFS coding similar to that of the young normal-hearing group, contrasting with the aged group's deficits. Despite histological evidence of significant synaptic loss in the CS group, the study concludes that CS does not appear to affect TFS coding, either behaviorally or physiologically.

Strengths:

This study addresses a critical health concern, enhancing our understanding of mechanisms underlying age-related difficulties in speech intelligibility, even when audiometric thresholds are within normal limits. A major strength of this work is the comprehensive approach, integrating behavioral assessments, auditory nerve (AN) physiology, and histology within the same animal subjects. This approach enhances understanding of the mechanisms underlying the behavioral outcomes and provides confidence in the actual occurrence of synapse loss and its effects.The study carefully manages controlled conditions by including five distinct groups: young normal-hearing animals, aged animals, animals with CS induced through low and high doses, and a sham surgery group. This careful setup strengthens the study's reliability and allows for meaningful comparisons across conditions. Overall, the manuscript is well-structured, with clear and accessible writing that facilitates comprehension of complex concepts.

Weakness:

The stimulus and task employed in this study are very helpful for behavioral research, and using the same stimulus setup for physiology is advantageous for mechanistic comparisons. However, I have some concerns about the limitations in auditory nerve (AN) physiology. Due to practical constraints, it is not feasible to record from a large enough population of fibers that covers a full range of best frequencies (BFs) and spontaneous rates (SRs) within each animal. This raises questions about how representative the physiological data are for understanding the mechanism in behavioral data. I am curious about the authors' interpretation of how this stimulus setup might influence results compared to methods used by Kale and Heinz (2010), who adjusted harmonic frequencies based on the characteristic frequency (CF) of recorded units. While, the harmonic frequencies in this study are fixed across all CFs, meaning that many AN fibers may not be tuned closely to the stimulus frequencies. If units are not responsive to the stimulus further clarification on detecting mistuning and phase locking to TFS effects within this setup would be valuable. Given the limited number of units per condition-sometimes as few as three for certain conditions-I wonder if CF-dependent variability might impact the results of the AN data in this study and discussing this factor can help with better understanding the results. While the use of the same stimuli for both behavioral and physiological recordings is understandable, a discussion on how this choice affects interpretation would be beneficial. In addition a 60 dB stimulus could saturate high spontaneous rate (HSR) AN fibers, influencing neural coding and phase-locking to TFS. Potentially separating SR groups, could help address these issues and improve interpretive clarity.

A deeper discussion on the role of fiber spontaneous rate could also enhance the study. How might considering SR groups affect AN results related to TFS coding? While some statistical measures are included in the supplement, a more detailed discussion in the main text could help in interpretation.

Although Figure S2 indicates no change in median SR, the high-dose treatment group lacks LSR fibers, suggesting a different distribution based on SR for different animal groups, as seen in similar studies on other species. A histogram of these results would be informative, as LSR fiber loss with CS-whether induced by ouabain in gerbils or noise in other animals-is well documented (e.g., Furman et al., 2013).

Although ouabain effects on gerbils have been explored in previous studies, since these data is already seems to be recorded for the animal in this study, a brief description of changes in auditory brainstem response (ABR) thresholds, wave 1 amplitudes, and tuning curves for animals with cochlear synaptopathy (CS) in this study would be beneficial. This would confirm that ouabain selectively affects synapses without impacting outer hair cells (OHCs). For aged animals, since ABR measurements were taken, comparing hearing differences between normal and aged groups could provide insights into the pathologies besides CS in aged animals. Additionally, examining subject variability in treatment effects on hearing and how this correlates with behavior and physiology would yield valuable insights. If limited space maybe a brief clarification or inclusion in supplementary could be good enough.

Another suggestion is to discuss the potential role of MOC efferent system and effect of anesthesia in reducing efferent effects in AN recordings. This is particularly relevant for aged animals, as CS might affect LSR fibers, potentially disrupting the medial olivocochlear (MOC) efferent pathway. Anesthesia could lessen MOC activity in both young and aged animals, potentially masking efferent effects that might be present in behavioral tasks. Young gerbils with functional efferent systems might perform better behaviorally, while aged gerbils with impaired MOC function due to CS might lack this advantage. A brief discussion on this aspect could potentially enhance mechanistic insights.

Lastly, although synapse counts did not differ between the low-dose treatment and NH I sham groups, separating these groups rather than combining them with the sham might reveal differences in behavior or AN results, particularly regarding the significance of differences between aged/treatment groups and the young normal-hearing group.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

Using a gerbil model, the authors tested the hypothesis that loss of synapses between sensory hair cells and auditory nerve fibers (which may occur due to noise exposure or aging) affects behavioral discrimination of the rapid temporal fluctuations of sounds. In contrast to previous suggestions in the literature, their results do not support this hypothesis; young animals treated with a compound that reduces the number of synapses did not show impaired discrimination compared to controls. Additionally, their results from older animals showing impaired discrimination suggest that age-related changes aside from synaptopathy are responsible for the age-related decline in discrimination.

Strengths:

(1) The rationale and hypothesis are well-motivated and clearly presented.

(2) The study was well conducted with strong methodology for the most part, and good experimental control. The combination of physiological and behavioral techniques is powerful and informative. Reducing synapse counts fairly directly using ouabain is a cleaner design than using noise exposure or age (as in other studies), since these latter modifiers have additional effects on auditory function.

(3) The study may have a considerable impact on the field. The findings could have important implications for our understanding of cochlear synaptopathy, one of the most highly researched and potentially impactful developments in hearing science in the past fifteen years.

Weaknesses:

(1) I have concerns that the gerbils may not have been performing the behavioral task using temporal fine structure information.

Human studies using the same task employed a filter center frequency that was (at least) 11 times the fundamental frequency (Marmel et al., 2015; Moore and Sek, 2009). Moore and Sek wrote: "the default (recommended) value of the centre frequency is 11F0." Here, the center frequency was only 4 or 8 times the fundamental frequency (4F0 or 8F0). Hence, relative to harmonic frequency, the harmonic spacing was considerably greater in the present study. However, gerbil auditory filters are thought to be broader than those in human. In the revised version of the manuscript, the authors provide modelling results suggesting that the excitation patterns were discriminable for the 4F0 conditions, but may not have been for the 8F0 conditions. These results provide some reassurance that the 8F0 discriminations were dependent on temporal cues, but the description of the model lacks detail. Also, the authors state that "thus, for these two conditions with harmonic number N of 8 the gerbils cannot rely on differences in the excitation patterns but must solve the task by comparing the temporal fine structure." This is too strong. Pulsed tone intensity difference limens (the reference used for establishing whether or not the excitation pattern cues were usable) may not be directly comparable to profile-analysis-like conditions, and it has been argued that frequency discrimination may be more sensitive to excitation pattern cues than predicted from a simple comparison to intensity difference limens (Micheyl et al. 2013, https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1003336).

I'm also somewhat concerned that the masking noise used in the present study was too low in level to mask cochlear distortion products. Based on their excitation pattern modelling, the authors state (without citation) that "since the level of excitation produced by the pink noise is less than 30 dB below that produced by the complex tones, distortion products will be masked." The basis for this claim is not clear. In human, distortion products may be only ~20 dB below the levels of the primaries (referenced to an external sound masker / canceller, which is appropriate, assuming that the modelling reported in the present paper did not include middle-ear effects; see Norman-Haignere and McDermott, 2016, doi: 10.1016/j.neuroimage.2016.01.050). Oxenham et al. (2009, doi: 10.1121/1.3089220) provide further cautionary evidence on the potential use of distortion product cues when the background noise level is too low (in their case the relative level of the noise in the compromised condition was only a little below that used in the present study). The masking level used in the present study may have been sufficient, but it would be useful to have some further reassurance on this point.

(2) The synapse reductions in the high ouabain and old groups were relatively small (mean of 19 synapses per hair cell compared to 23 in the young untreated group). In contrast, in some mouse models of the effects of noise exposure or age, a 50% reduction in synapses is observed, and in the human temporal bone study of Wu et al. (2021, https://doi.org/10.1523/JNEUROSCI.3238-20.2021) the age-related reduction in auditory nerve fibres was ~50% or greater for the highest age group across cochlear location. It could be simply that the synapse loss in the present study was too small to produce significant behavioral effects. Hence, although the authors provide evidence that in the gerbil model the age-related behavioral effects are not due to synaptopathy, this may not translate to other species (including human).

(3) The study was not pre-registered, and there was no a priori power calculation, so there is less confidence in replicability than could have been the case. Only three old animals were used in the behavioral study, which raises concerns about the reliability of comparisons involving this group. Statistical analyses on very small samples can be unreliable due to problems of power, generalisability, and susceptibility to outliers.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

This study is a part of the ongoing series of rigorous work from this group exploring neural coding deficits in the auditory nerve, and dissociating the effects of cochlear synaptopathy from other age-related deficits. They have previously shown no evidence of phase-locking deficits in the remaining auditory nerve fibers in quiet-aged gerbils. Here, they study the effects of aging on the perception and neural coding of temporal fine structure cues in the same Mongolian gerbil model.

They measure TFS coding in the auditory nerve using the TFS1 task which uses a combination of harmonic and tone-shifted inharmonic tones which differ primarily in their TFS cues (and not the envelope). They then follow this up with a behavioral paradigm using the TFS1 task in these gerbils. They test young normal hearing gerbils, aged gerbils, and young gerbils with cochlear synaptopathy induced using the neurotoxin ouabain to mimic synapse losses seen with age.

In the behavioral paradigm, they find that aging is associated with decreased performance compared to the young gerbils, whereas young gerbils with similar levels of synapse loss do not show these deficits. When looking at the auditory nerve responses, they find no differences in neural coding of TFS cues across any of the groups. However, aged gerbils show an increase in the representation of periodicity envelope cues (around f0) compared to young gerbils or those with induced synapse loss. The authors hence conclude that synapse loss by itself doesn't seem to be important for distinguishing TFS cues, and rather the behavioral deficits with age are likely having to do with the misrepresented envelope cues instead.

The manuscript is well written, and the data presented are robust. Some of the points below will need to be considered while interpreting the results of the study, in its current form. These considerations are addressable if deemed necessary, with some additional analysis in future versions of the manuscript.

Spontaneous rates - Figure S2 shows no differences in median spontaneous rates across groups. But taking the median glosses over some of the nuances there. Ouabain (in the Bourien study) famously affects low spont rates first, and at a higher degree than median or high spont rates. It seems to be the case (qualitatively) in figure S2 as well, with almost no units in the low spont region in the ouabain group, compared to the other groups. Looking at distributions within each spont rate category and comparing differences across the groups might reveal some of the underlying causes for these changes. Given that overall, the study reports that low-SR fibers had a higher ENV/TFS log-z-ratio, the distribution of these fibers across groups may reveal specific effects of TFS coding by group.

[Update: The revised manuscript has addressed these issues]

Threshold shifts - It is unclear from the current version if the older gerbils have changes in hearing thresholds, and whether those changes may be affecting behavioral thresholds. The behavioral stimuli appear to have been presented at a fixed sound level for both young and aged gerbils, similar to the single unit recordings. Hence, age-related differences in behavior may have been due to changes in relative sensation level. Approaches such as using hearing thresholds as covariates in the analysis will help explore if older gerbils still show behavioral deficits.

[Update: The issue of threshold shifts with aging gerbils is still unresolved in my opinion. From the revised manuscript, it appears that aged gerbils have a 36dB shift in thresholds. While the revised manuscript provides convincing evidence that these threshold shifts do not affect the auditory nerve tuning properties, the behavioral paradigm was still presented at the same sound level for young and aged animals. But a potential 36 dB change in sensation level may affect behavioral results. The authors may consider adding thresholds as covariates in analyses or present any evidence that behavioral thresholds are plateaued along that 30dB range].

Task learning in aged gerbils - It is unclear if the aged gerbils really learn the task well in two of the three TFS1 test conditions. The d' of 1 which is usually used as the criterion for learning was not reached in even the easiest condition for aged gerbils in all but one condition for the aged gerbils (Fig. 5H) and in that condition, there doesn't seem to be any age-related deficits in behavioral performance (Fig. 6B). Hence dissociating the inability to learn the task from the inability to perceive TFS 1 cues in those animals becomes challenging.

[Update: The revised manuscript sufficiently addresses these issues, with the caveat of hearing threshold changes affecting behavioral thresholds mentioned above].

Increased representation of periodicity envelope in the AN - the mechanisms for increased representation of periodicity envelope cues is unclear. The authors point to some potential central mechanisms but given that these are recordings from the auditory nerve what central mechanisms these may be is unclear. If the authors are suggesting some form of efferent modulation only at the f0 frequency, no evidence for this is presented. It appears more likely that the enhancement may be due to outer hair cell dysfunction (widened tuning, distorted tonotopy). Given this increased envelope coding, the potential change in sensation level for the behavior (from the comment above), and no change in neural coding of TFS cues across any of the groups, a simpler interpretation may be -TFS coding is not affected in remaining auditory nerve fibers after age-related or ouabain induced synapse loss, but behavioral performance is affected by altered outer hair cell dysfunction with age.

[Update: The revised manuscript has addressed these issues]

Emerging evidence seems to suggest that cochlear synaptopathy and/or TFS encoding abilities might be reflected in listening effort rather than behavioral performance. Measuring some proxy of listening effort in these gerbils (like reaction time) to see if that has changed with synapse loss, especially in the young animals with induced synaptopathy, would make an interesting addition to explore perceptual deficits of TFS coding with synapse loss.

[Update: The revised manuscript has addressed these issues]

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

Using a gerbil model, the authors tested the hypothesis that loss of synapses between sensory hair cells and auditory nerve fibers (which may occur due to noise exposure or aging) affects behavioral discrimination of the rapid temporal fluctuations of sounds. In contrast to previous suggestions in the literature, their results do not support this hypothesis; young animals treated with a compound that reduces the number of synapses did not show impaired discrimination compared to controls. Additionally, their results from older animals showing impaired discrimination suggest that age-related changes aside from synaptopathy are responsible for the age-related decline in discrimination.

Strengths:

(1) The rationale and hypothesis are well-motivated and clearly presented.

(2) The study was well conducted with strong methodology for the most part, and good experimental control. The combination of physiological and behavioral techniques is powerful and informative. Reducing synapse counts fairly directly using ouabain is a cleaner design than using noise exposure or age (as in other studies), since these latter modifiers have additional effects on auditory function.

(3) The study may have a considerable impact on the field. The findings could have important implications for our understanding of cochlear synaptopathy, one of the most highly researched and potentially impactful developments in hearing science in the past fifteen years.

Weaknesses:

(1) I have concerns that the gerbils may not have been performing the behavioral task using temporal fine structure information.

Human studies using the same task employed a filter center frequency that was (at least) 11 times the fundamental frequency (Marmel et al., 2015; Moore and Sek, 2009). Moore and Sek wrote: "the default (recommended) value of the centre frequency is 11F0." Here, the center frequency was only 4 or 8 times the fundamental frequency (4F0 or 8F0). Hence, relative to harmonic frequency, the harmonic spacing was considerably greater in the present study. However, gerbil auditory filters are thought to be broader than those in human. In the revised version of the manuscript, the authors provide modelling results suggesting that the excitation patterns were discriminable for the 4F0 conditions, but may not have been for the 8F0 conditions. These results provide some reassurance that the 8F0 discriminations were dependent on temporal cues, but the description of the model lacks detail. Also, the authors state that "thus, for these two conditions with harmonic number N of 8 the gerbils cannot rely on differences in the excitation patterns but must solve the task by comparing the temporal fine structure." This is too strong. Pulsed tone intensity difference limens (the reference used for establishing whether or not the excitation pattern cues were usable) may not be directly comparable to profile-analysis-like conditions, and it has been argued that frequency discrimination may be more sensitive to excitation pattern cues than predicted from a simple comparison to intensity difference limens (Micheyl et al. 2013, https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1003336

We can assume that our conclusions based on the excitation patterns are adequate when putting gerbil auditory filter data, frequency difference limens and intensity difference limens together into perspective. Kittel et al. (2002) observed an about factor 2 larger auditory-filter bandwidth in the gerbil than in humans reducing the number of independent frequency channels in the analysis of excitation patterns. The gerbil frequency-difference limen for pure tones being an indicator for the sensitivity to make use of excitation patterns is more than an order of magnitude larger than the corresponding human frequency difference limen (Klinge and Klump 2009, https://doi.org/10.1121/1.3021315). Finally, the gerbil intensity-difference limen of 2.8 dB observed for 1-kHz pure tones is considerably larger than the 0.75 dB observed for humans in the same study (Sinnott et al. 1992). Thus, taken together these lines of evidence indicate that our conclusions regarding the potential use of excitation patterns are not too strong.

I'm also somewhat concerned that the masking noise used in the present study was too low in level to mask cochlear distortion products. Based on their excitation pattern modelling, the authors state (without citation) that "since the level of excitation produced by the pink noise is less than 30 dB below that produced by the complex tones, distortion products will be masked." The basis for this claim is not clear. In human, distortion products may be only ~20 dB below the levels of the primaries (referenced to an external sound masker / canceller, which is appropriate, assuming that the modelling reported in the present paper did not include middle-ear effects; see Norman-Haignere and McDermott, 2016, doi: 10.1016/j.neuroimage.2016.01.050). Oxenham et al. (2009, doi: 10.1121/1.3089220) provide further cautionary evidence on the potential use of distortion product cues when the background noise level is too low (in their case the relative level of the noise in the compromised condition was only a little below that used in the present study). The masking level used in the present study may have been sufficient, but it would be useful to have some further reassurance on this point.

In the method section, we provide the citation for estimating the size of the distortion products and the estimated signal-to-noise ratio making the basis for our estimates clear.

We consulted Oxenham et al. (2009, doi: 10.1121/1.3089220) who suggested that distortion products may have been used in human subjects. However, in Fig. 1 of their paper, they convincingly demonstrate that even for humans that have more narrow auditory filters than gerbils, spectral cues cannot be used to evaluate the frequency shift in harmonic complex tones. We are confident that the same limitation applies to gerbils that have wider auditory filters than humans and a lower ability to use spectral cues as indicated by their higher frequency-difference limens and intensity-difference limens compared to humans.

(2) The synapse reductions in the high ouabain and old groups were relatively small (mean of 19 synapses per hair cell compared to 23 in the young untreated group). In contrast, in some mouse models of the effects of noise exposure or age, a 50% reduction in synapses is observed, and in the human temporal bone study of Wu et al. (2021, https://doi.org/10.1523/JNEUROSCI.3238-20.2021) the age-related reduction in auditory nerve fibres was ~50% or greater for the highest age group across cochlear location. It could be simply that the synapse loss in the present study was too small to produce significant behavioral effects. Hence, although the authors provide evidence that in the gerbil model the age-related behavioral effects are not due to synaptopathy, this may not translate to other species (including human).

(3) The study was not pre-registered, and there was no a priori power calculation, so there is less confidence in replicability than could have been the case. Only three old animals were used in the behavioral study, which raises concerns about the reliability of comparisons involving this group.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

This study is a part of the ongoing series of rigorous work from this group exploring neural coding deficits in the auditory nerve, and dissociating the effects of cochlear synaptopathy from other age-related deficits. They have previously shown no evidence of phase-locking deficits in the remaining auditory nerve fibers in quiet-aged gerbils. Here, they study the effects of aging on the perception and neural coding of temporal fine structure cues in the same Mongolian gerbil model.

They measure TFS coding in the auditory nerve using the TFS1 task which uses a combination of harmonic and tone-shifted inharmonic tones which differ primarily in their TFS cues (and not the envelope). They then follow this up with a behavioral paradigm using the TFS1 task in these gerbils. They test young normal hearing gerbils, aged gerbils, and young gerbils with cochlear synaptopathy induced using the neurotoxin ouabain to mimic synapse losses seen with age.

In the behavioral paradigm, they find that aging is associated with decreased performance compared to the young gerbils, whereas young gerbils with similar levels of synapse loss do not show these deficits. When looking at the auditory nerve responses, they find no differences in neural coding of TFS cues across any of the groups. However, aged gerbils show an increase in the representation of periodicity envelope cues (around f0) compared to young gerbils or those with induced synapse loss. The authors hence conclude that synapse loss by itself doesn't seem to be important for distinguishing TFS cues, and rather the behavioral deficits with age are likely having to do with the misrepresented envelope cues instead.

The manuscript is well written, and the data presented are robust. Some of the points below will need to be considered while interpreting the results of the study, in its current form. These considerations are addressable if deemed necessary, with some additional analysis in future versions of the manuscript.

Spontaneous rates - Figure S2 shows no differences in median spontaneous rates across groups. But taking the median glosses over some of the nuances there. Ouabain (in the Bourien study) famously affects low spont rates first, and at a higher degree than median or high spont rates. It seems to be the case (qualitatively) in figure S2 as well, with almost no units in the low spont region in the ouabain group, compared to the other groups. Looking at distributions within each spont rate category and comparing differences across the groups might reveal some of the underlying causes for these changes. Given that overall, the study reports that low-SR fibers had a higher ENV/TFS log-z-ratio, the distribution of these fibers across groups may reveal specific effects of TFS coding by group.

[Update: The revised manuscript has addressed these issues]

Threshold shifts - It is unclear from the current version if the older gerbils have changes in hearing thresholds, and whether those changes may be affecting behavioral thresholds. The behavioral stimuli appear to have been presented at a fixed sound level for both young and aged gerbils, similar to the single unit recordings. Hence, age-related differences in behavior may have been due to changes in relative sensation level. Approaches such as using hearing thresholds as covariates in the analysis will help explore if older gerbils still show behavioral deficits.

[Update: The issue of threshold shifts with aging gerbils is still unresolved in my opinion. From the revised manuscript, it appears that aged gerbils have a 36dB shift in thresholds. While the revised manuscript provides convincing evidence that these threshold shifts do not affect the auditory nerve tuning properties, the behavioral paradigm was still presented at the same sound level for young and aged animals. But a potential 36 dB change in sensation level may affect behavioral results. The authors may consider adding thresholds as covariates in analyses or present any evidence that behavioral thresholds are plateaued along that 30dB range].

Since we do not have behavioural detection thresholds from our individual animals, only CAP thresholds that represent the auditory-nerve data and cannot be translated to behavioural thresholds directly, we want to refrain from using these indirect measures as covariates in the present analysis. In addition, the study by Hamann et al. (2002, https://doi.org/10.1016/S0378-5955(02)00454-9) indicates that age-related behavioural threshold increases are smaller than threshold increases obtained from auditory brainstem response measurements. Finally, statistical analyses on very small samples can be unreliable due to problems of power, generalisability, and susceptibility to outliers.

Moore and Sek (2009) in their paper on the TFS1 test pointed out that the effect of signal level on the TFS1 threshold in normal hearing human subjects was small when the signal-to-noise ratio between the broadband masking noise and the complex tone was kept constant. Furthermore, the masking noise will raise the thresholds of normal hearing gerbils and old gerbils with an audibility threshold increase to about the same signal-to-noise ratio. Thus, as long as the signal remains audible to the behaviourally tested gerbil which can be expected at an overall signal level of 68 dB SPL, we expect little effect of raised audibility thresholds on the TFS1 threshold. The lack of temporal processing deficits in the auditory-nerve fibers of old, mildly hearing impaired gerbils compared to those in normal hearing young adult gerbils further strengthens this argument.

Task learning in aged gerbils - It is unclear if the aged gerbils really learn the task well in two of the three TFS1 test conditions. The d' of 1 which is usually used as the criterion for learning was not reached in even the easiest condition for aged gerbils in all but one condition for the aged gerbils (Fig. 5H) and in that condition, there doesn't seem to be any age-related deficits in behavioral performance (Fig. 6B). Hence dissociating the inability to learn the task from the inability to perceive TFS 1 cues in those animals becomes challenging.

[Update: The revised manuscript sufficiently addresses these issues, with the caveat of hearing threshold changes affecting behavioral thresholds mentioned above].

As we argued above, an audibility threshold increase in the old gerbils is unlikely to explain the raised TFS1 thresholds in the old gerbils.

Increased representation of periodicity envelope in the AN - the mechanisms for increased representation of periodicity envelope cues is unclear. The authors point to some potential central mechanisms but given that these are recordings from the auditory nerve what central mechanisms these may be is unclear. If the authors are suggesting some form of efferent modulation only at the f0 frequency, no evidence for this is presented. It appears more likely that the enhancement may be due to outer hair cell dysfunction (widened tuning, distorted tonotopy). Given this increased envelope coding, the potential change in sensation level for the behavior (from the comment above), and no change in neural coding of TFS cues across any of the groups, a simpler interpretation may be -TFS coding is not affected in remaining auditory nerve fibers after age-related or ouabain induced synapse loss, but behavioral performance is affected by altered outer hair cell dysfunction with age.

[Update: The revised manuscript has addressed these issues]

Emerging evidence seems to suggest that cochlear synaptopathy and/or TFS encoding abilities might be reflected in listening effort rather than behavioral performance. Measuring some proxy of listening effort in these gerbils (like reaction time) to see if that has changed with synapse loss, especially in the young animals with induced synaptopathy, would make an interesting addition to explore perceptual deficits of TFS coding with synapse loss.

[Update: The revised manuscript has addressed these issues]

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

Thank you for your revisions. They largely address most of my initial concerns. The issue of threshold shifts potentially affecting behavioral thresholds still remains unresolved in my opinion. The new data about unaltered tuning curves is convincing that the auditory nerve fiber recordings are unaffected by threshold shifts. But am I correct in my understanding that the threshold shift with age was 36 dB relative to the young (L168)? If so, wouldn't the fact that behavior was performed at 68 dB SPL regardless of group affect the behavioral thresholds with age? Is there any additional evidence that suggests that behavioral performance plateaus along that ~30dB range that the authors could include to strengthen this claim?

In our response above to reviewer #3 and to reviewer #2 we provided additional arguments why we think that an audibility threshold increase in old gerbils cannot explain their compromised TFS1 thresholds.

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Reviewer #1(Public review)  

Summary:  

The authors investigate the effects of aging on auditory system performance in understanding temporal fine structure (TFS), using both behavioral assessments and physiological recordings from the auditory periphery, specifically at the level of the auditory nerve. This dual approach aims to enhance understanding of the mechanisms underlying observed behavioral outcomes. The results indicate that aged animals exhibit deficits in behavioral tasks for distinguishing between harmonic and inharmonic sounds, which is a standard test for TFS coding. However, neural responses at the auditory nerve level do not show significant differences when compared to those in young, normalhearing animals. The authors suggest that these behavioral deficits in aged animals are likely attributable to dysfunctions in the central auditory system, potentially as a consequence of aging. To further investigate this hypothesis, the study includes an animal group with selective synaptic loss between inner hair cells and auditory nerve fibers, a condition known as cochlear synaptopathy (CS).CS is a pathology associated with aging and is thought to be an early indicator of hearing impairment. Interestingly, animals with selective CS showed physiological and behavioral TFS coding similar to that of the young normal-hearing group, contrasting with the aged group's deficits. Despite histological evidence of significant synaptic loss in the CS group, the study concludes that CS does not appear to affect TFS coding, either behaviorally or physiologically.  

We agree with the reviewer’s summary.

Strengths:  

This study addresses a critical health concern, enhancing our understanding of mechanisms underlying age-related difficulties in speech intelligibility, even when audiometric thresholds are within normal limits. A major strength of this work is the comprehensive approach, integrating behavioral assessments, auditory nerve (AN) physiology, and histology within the same animal subjects. This approach enhances understanding of the mechanisms underlying the behavioral outcomes and provides confidence in the actual occurrence of synapse loss and its effects. The study carefully manages controlled conditions by including five distinct groups: young normal-hearing animals, aged animals, animals with CS induced through low and high doses, and a sham surgery group. This careful setup strengthens the study's reliability and allows for meaningful comparisons across conditions. Overall, the manuscript is well-structured, with clear and accessible writing that facilitates comprehension of complex concepts.

Weaknesses:

The stimulus and task employed in this study are very helpful for behavioral research, and using the same stimulus setup for physiology is advantageous for mechanistic comparisons. However, I have some concerns about the limitations in auditory nerve (AN) physiology. Due to practical constraints, it is not feasible to record from a large enough population of fibers that covers a full range of best frequencies (BFs) and spontaneous rates (SRs) within each animal. This raises questions about how representative the physiological data are for understanding the mechanism in behavioral data. I am curious about the authors' interpretation of how this stimulus setup might influence results compared to methods used by Kale and Heinz (2010), who adjusted harmonic frequencies based on the characteristic frequency (CF) of recorded units. While, the harmonic frequencies in this study are fixed across all CFs, meaning that many AN fibers may not be tuned closely to the stimulus frequencies. If units are not responsive to the stimulus further clarification on detecting mistuning and phase locking to TFS effects within this setup would be valuable. Since the harmonic frequencies in this study are fixed across all CFs, this means that many AN fibers may not be tuned closely to the stimulus frequencies, adding sampling variability to the results.

We chose the stimuli for the AN recordings to be identical to the stimuli used in the behavioral evaluation of the perceptual sensitivity. Only with this approach can we directly compare the response of the population of AN fibers with perception measured in behavior.

The stimuli are complex, i.e., comprise of many frequency components AND were presented at 68 dB SPL. Thus, the stimuli excite a given fiber within a large portion of the fiber’s receptive field. Furthermore, during recordings, we assured ourselves that fibers responded to the stimuli by audiovisual control. Otherwise it would have cost valuable recording time to record from a nonresponsive AN fiber.

Given the limited number of units per condition-sometimes as few as three for certain conditions - I wonder if CF-dependent variability might impact the results of the AN data in this study and discussing this factor can help with better understanding the results. While the use of the same stimuli for both behavioral and physiological recordings is understandable, a discussion on how this choice affects interpretation would be beneficial. In addition a 60 dB stimulus could saturate high spontaneous rate (HSR) AN fibers, influencing neural coding and phase-locking to TFS. Potentially separating SR groups, could help address these issues and improve interpretive clarity.  

A deeper discussion on the role of fiber spontaneous rate could also enhance the study. How might considering SR groups affect AN results related to TFS coding? While some statistical measures are included in the supplement, a more detailed discussion in the main text could help in interpretation.  We do not think that it will be necessary to conduct any statistical analysis in addition to that already reported in the supplement.  

We considered moving some supplementary information back into the main manuscript but decided against it. Our single-unit sample was not sufficient, i.e. not all subpopulations of auditory-nerve fibers were sufficiently sampled for all animal treatment groups, to conclusively resolve every aspect that may be interesting to explore. The power of our approach lies in the direct linkage of several levels of investigation – cochlear synaptic morphology, single-unit representation and behavioral performance – and, in the main manuscript, we focus on the core question of synaptopathy and its relation to temporal fine structure perception. This is now spelled out clearly in lines 197 - 203 of the main manuscript.  

Although Figure S2 indicates no change in median SR, the high-dose treatment group lacks LSR fibers, suggesting a different distribution based on SR for different animal groups, as seen in similar studies on other species. A histogram of these results would be informative, as LSR fiber loss with CS-whether induced by ouabain in gerbils or noise in other animals-is well documented (e.g., Furman et al., 2013).  

Figure S2 was revised to avoid overlap of data points and show the distributions more clearly. Furthermore, the sample sizes for LSR and HSR fibers are now provided separately.

Although ouabain effects on gerbils have been explored in previous studies, since these data already seems to be recorded for the animal in this study, a brief description of changes in auditory brainstem response (ABR) thresholds, wave 1 amplitudes, and tuning curves for animals with cochlear synaptopathy (CS) in this study would be beneficial. This would confirm that ouabain selectively affects synapses without impacting outer hair cells (OHCs). For aged animals, since ABR measurements were taken, comparing hearing differences between normal and aged groups could provide insights into the pathologies besides CS in aged animals. Additionally, examining subject variability in treatment effects on hearing and how this correlates with behavior and physiology would yield valuable insights. If limited space maybe a brief clarification or inclusion in supplementary could be good enough.  

We thank the reviewer for this constructive suggestion. The requested data were added in a new section of the Results, entitled “Threshold sensitivity and frequency tuning were not affected by the synapse loss.” (lines 150 – 174). Our young-adult, ouabain-treated gerbils showed no significant elevations of CAP thresholds and their neural tuning was normal. Old gerbils showed the typical threshold losses for individuals of comparable age, and normal neural tuning, confirming previous reports. Thus, there was no evidence for relevant OHC impairments in any of our animal groups.   

Another suggestion is to discuss the potential role of MOC efferent system and effect of anesthesia in reducing efferent effects in AN recordings. This is particularly relevant for aged animals, as CS might affect LSR fibers, potentially disrupting the medial olivocochlear (MOC) efferent pathway. Anesthesia could lessen MOC activity in both young and aged animals, potentially masking efferent effects that might be present in behavioral tasks. Young gerbils with functional efferent systems might perform better behaviorally, while aged gerbils with impaired MOC function due to CS might lack this advantage. A brief discussion on this aspect could potentially enhance mechanistic insights.  

Thank you for this suggestion. The potential role of olivocochlear efferents is now discussed in lines 597 - 613.

Lastly, although synapse counts did not differ between the low-dose treatment and NH I sham groups, separating these groups rather than combining them with the sham might reveal differences in behavior or AN results, particularly regarding the significance of differences between aged/treatment groups and the young normal-hearing group.  

For maximizing statistical power, we combined those groups in the statistical analysis. These two groups did not differ in synapse number, threshold sensitivity or neural tuning bandwidths.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:  

Using a gerbil model, the authors tested the hypothesis that loss of synapses between sensory hair cells and auditory nerve fibers (which may occur due to noise exposure or aging) affects behavioral discrimination of the rapid temporal fluctuations of sounds. In contrast to previous suggestions in the literature, their results do not support this hypothesis; young animals treated with a compound that reduces the number of synapses did not show impaired discrimination compared to controls. Additionally, their results from older animals showing impaired discrimination suggest that agerelated changes aside from synaptopathy are responsible for the age-related decline in discrimination. 

We agree with the reviewer’s summary.

Strengths: 

(1) The rationale and hypothesis are well-motivated and clearly presented. 

(2) The study was well conducted with strong methodology for the most part, and good experimental control. The combination of physiological and behavioral techniques is powerful and informative. Reducing synapse counts fairly directly using ouabain is a cleaner design than using noise exposure or age (as in other studies), since these latter modifiers have additional effects on auditory function. 

(3) The study may have a considerable impact on the field. The findings could have important implications for our understanding of cochlear synaptopathy, one of the most highly researched and potentially impactful developments in hearing science in the past fifteen years.  

Weaknesses: 

(1) My main concern is that the stimuli may not have been appropriate for assessing neural temporal coding behaviorally. Human studies using the same task employed a filter center frequency that was (at least) 11 times the fundamental frequency (Marmel et al., 2015; Moore and Sek, 2009). Moore and Sek wrote: "the default (recommended) value of the centre frequency is 11F0." Here, the center frequency was only 4 or 8 times the fundamental frequency (4F0 or 8F0). Hence, relative to harmonic frequency, the harmonic spacing was considerably greater in the present study. By my calculations, the masking noise used in the present study was also considerably lower in level relative to the harmonic complex than that used in the human studies. These factors may have allowed the animals to perform the task using cues based on the pattern of activity across the neural array (excitation pattern cues), rather than cues related to temporal neural coding. The authors show that mean neural driven rate did not change with frequency shift, but I don't understand the relevance of this. It is the change in response of individual fibers with characteristic frequencies near the lowest audible harmonic that is important here.  

The auditory filter bandwidth of the gerbil is about double that of human subjects. Because of this, the masking noise has a larger overall level than in the human studies in the filter, prohibiting the use of distortion products. The larger auditory filter bandwidth precludes that the gerbils can use excitation patterns, especially in the condition with a center frequency of 1600 Hz and a fundamental of 200 Hz and in the condition with a center frequency of 3200 Hz and a fundamental of 400 Hz. In the condition with a center frequency of 1600 Hz and a fundamental of 400 Hz, it is possible that excitation patterns are exploited. We have now added  modeling of the excitation patterns, and a new figure showing their change at the gerbils’ perception threshold, in the discussion of the revised version (lines 440 - 446 and Fig. 8).

The case against excitation pattern cues needs to be better made in the Discussion. It could be that gerbil frequency selectivity is broad enough for this not to be an issue, but more detail needs to be provided to make this argument. The authors should consider what is the lowest audible harmonic in each case for their stimuli, given the level of each harmonic and the level of the pink noise. Even for the 8F0 center frequency, the lowest audible harmonic may be as low as the 4th (possibly even the 3rd). In human, harmonics are thought to be resolvable by the cochlea up to at least the 8th.  

This issue is now covered in the discussion, see response to the previous point.

(2) The synapse reductions in the high ouabain and old groups were relatively small (mean of 19 synapses per hair cell compared to 23 in the young untreated group). In contrast, in some mouse models of the effects of noise exposure or age, a 50% reduction in synapses is observed, and in the human temporal bone study of Wu et al. (2021, https://doi.org/10.1523/JNEUROSCI.3238-20.2021) the age-related reduction in auditory nerve fibres was ~50% or greater for the highest age group across cochlear location. It could be simply that the synapse loss in the present study was too small to produce significant behavioral effects. Hence, although the authors provide evidence that in the gerbil model the age-related behavioral effects are not due to synaptopathy, this may not translate to other species (including human). This should be discussed in the manuscript. 

We agree that our results apply to moderate synaptopathy, which predominantly characterizes early stages of hearing loss or aged individuals without confounding noise-induced cochlear damage. This is now discussed in lines 486 – 498.

It would be informative to provide synapse counts separately for the animals who were tested behaviorally, to confirm that the pattern of loss across the group was the same as for the larger sample.  

Yes, the pattern was the same for the subgroup of behaviorally tested animals. We have added this information to the revised version of the manuscript (lines 137 – 141).

(3) The study was not pre-registered, and there was no a priori power calculation, so there is less confidence in replicability than could have been the case. Only three old animals were used in the behavioral study, which raises concerns about the reliability of comparisons involving this group.  

The results for the three old subjects differed significantly from those of young subjects and young ouabain-treated subjects. This indicates a sufficient statistical power, since otherwise no significant differences would be observed.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

This study is a part of the ongoing series of rigorous work from this group exploring neural coding deficits in the auditory nerve, and dissociating the effects of cochlear synaptopathy from other agerelated deficits. They have previously shown no evidence of phase-locking deficits in the remaining auditory nerve fibers in quiet-aged gerbils. Here, they study the effects of aging on the perception and neural coding of temporal fine structure cues in the same Mongolian gerbil model. 

They measure TFS coding in the auditory nerve using the TFS1 task which uses a combination of harmonic and tone-shifted inharmonic tones which differ primarily in their TFS cues (and not the envelope). They then follow this up with a behavioral paradigm using the TFS1 task in these gerbils. They test young normal hearing gerbils, aged gerbils, and young gerbils with cochlear synaptopathy induced using the neurotoxin ouabain to mimic synapse losses seen with age. 

In the behavioral paradigm, they find that aging is associated with decreased performance compared to the young gerbils, whereas young gerbils with similar levels of synapse loss do not show these deficits. When looking at the auditory nerve responses, they find no differences in neural coding of TFS cues across any of the groups. However, aged gerbils show an increase in the representation of periodicity envelope cues (around f0) compared to young gerbils or those with induced synapse loss. The authors hence conclude that synapse loss by itself doesn't seem to be important for distinguishing TFS cues, and rather the behavioral deficits with age are likely having to do with the misrepresented envelope cues instead.  

We agree with the reviewer’s summary.

The manuscript is well written, and the data presented are robust. Some of the points below will need to be considered while interpreting the results of the study, in its current form. These considerations are addressable if deemed necessary, with some additional analysis in future versions of the manuscript. 

Spontaneous rates - Figure S2 shows no differences in median spontaneous rates across groups. But taking the median glosses over some of the nuances there. Ouabain (in the Bourien study) famously affects low spont rates first, and at a higher degree than median or high spont rates. It seems to be the case (qualitatively) in Figure S2 as well, with almost no units in the low spont region in the ouabain group, compared to the other groups. Looking at distributions within each spont rate category and comparing differences across the groups might reveal some of the underlying causes for these changes. Given that overall, the study reports that low-SR fibers had a higher ENV/TFS log-zratio, the distribution of these fibers across groups may reveal specific effects of TFS coding by group.  

As the reviewer points out, our sample from the group treated with a high concentration of ouabain showed very few low-spontaneous-rate auditory-nerve fibers, as expected from previous work. However, this was also true, e.g., for our sample from sham-operated animals, and may thus well reflect a sampling bias. We are therefore reluctant to attach much significance to these data distributions. We now point out more clearly the limitations of our auditory-nerve sample for the exploration of  interesting questions beyond our core research aim (see also response to Reviewer 1 above).  

Threshold shifts - It is unclear from the current version if the older gerbils have changes in hearing thresholds, and whether those changes may be affecting behavioral thresholds. The behavioral stimuli appear to have been presented at a fixed sound level for both young and aged gerbils, similar to the single unit recordings. Hence, age-related differences in behavior may have been due to changes in relative sensation level. Approaches such as using hearing thresholds as covariates in the analysis will help explore if older gerbils still show behavioral deficits.  

Unfortunately, we did not obtain behavioral thresholds that could be used here. We want to point out that the TFS 1 stimuli had an overall level of 68 dB SPL, and the pink noise masker would have increased the threshold more than expected from the moderate, age-related hearing loss in quiet. Thus, the masked thresholds for all gerbil groups are likely similar and should have no effect on the behavioral results.

Task learning in aged gerbils - It is unclear if the aged gerbils really learn the task well in two of the three TFS1 test conditions. The d' of 1 which is usually used as the criterion for learning was not reached in even the easiest condition for aged gerbils in all but one condition for the aged gerbils (Fig. 5H) and in that condition, there doesn't seem to be any age-related deficits in behavioral performance (Fig. 6B). Hence dissociating the inability to learn the task from the inability to perceive TFS 1 cues in those animals becomes challenging.  

Even in the group of gerbils with the lowest sensitivity, for the condition 400/1600 the animals achieved a d’ of on average above 1. Furthermore, stimuli were well above threshold and audible, even when no discrimination could be observed. Finally, as explained in the methods, different stimulus conditions were interleaved in each session, providing stimuli that were easy to discriminate together with those being difficult to discriminate. This approach ensures that the gerbils were under stimulus control, meaning properly trained to perform the task. Thus, an inability to discriminate does not indicate a lack of proper training.  

Increased representation of periodicity envelope in the AN - the mechanisms for increased representation of periodicity envelope cues is unclear. The authors point to some potential central mechanisms but given that these are recordings from the auditory nerve what central mechanisms these may be is unclear. If the authors are suggesting some form of efferent modulation only at the f0 frequency, no evidence for this is presented. It appears more likely that the enhancement may be due to outer hair cell dysfunction (widened tuning, distorted tonotopy). Given this increased envelope coding, the potential change in sensation level for the behavior (from the comment above), and no change in neural coding of TFS cues across any of the groups, a simpler interpretation may be -TFS coding is not affected in remaining auditory nerve fibers after age-related or ouabain induced synapse loss, but behavioral performance is affected by altered outer hair cell dysfunction with age. 

A similar point was made by Reviewer #1. As indicated above, new data on threshold sensitivity and neural tuning were added in a new section of the Results which indirectly suggest that significant OHC pathologies were not a concern, neither in our young-adult, synaptopathic gerbils nor in the old gerbils.  

Emerging evidence seems to suggest that cochlear synaptopathy and/or TFS encoding abilities might be reflected in listening effort rather than behavioral performance. Measuring some proxy of listening effort in these gerbils (like reaction time) to see if that has changed with synapse loss, especially in the young animals with induced synaptopathy, would make an interesting addition to explore perceptual deficits of TFS coding with synapse loss.  

This is an interesting suggestion that we now explore in the revision of the manuscript. Reaction times can be used as a proxy for listening effort and were recorded for all responses. The the new analysis now reported in lines 378 - 396 compared young-adult control gerbils with young-adult gerbils that had been treated with the high concentration of ouabain. No differences in response latencies was found, indicating that listening effort did not change with synapse loss.  

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

Figure 2: The y-axis labeled as "Frequency" is potentially misleading since there are additional frequency values on the right side of the panels. It would be helpful to clarify more in the caption what these right-side frequency values represent. Additionally, the legend could be positioned more effectively for clarity.

Thank you for your suggestion. The axis label was rephrased.

Figure 7: This figure is a bit unclear, as it appears to show two sets of gerbil data at 1500 Hz, yet the difference between them is not explained.  

We added the following text to the figure legend: „The higher and lower thresholds shown for the gerbil data reflect thresholds at  fc of 1600 Hz for fundamentals f0 of 200 Hz and 400 Hz, respectively.“

Maybe a short description of fmax that is used in Figure 4 could help or at least point to supplementary for finding the definition.  

We thank the reviewer for pointing out this typo/inaccuracy. The correct terminology in line with the remainder of the manuscript is “fmaxpeak”. We corrected the caption of figure 5 (previously figure 4) and added the reference pointing to figure 11 (previously figure 9), which explains the terms.

I couldn't find information about the possible availability of data. 

The auditory-nerve recordings reported in this paper are part of a larger study of single-unit auditorynerve responses in gerbils, formally described and published by Heeringa (2024) Single-unit data for sensory neuroscience: Responses from the auditory nerve of young-adult and aging gerbils. Scientific Data 11:411, https://doi.org/10.1038/s41597-024-03259-3. As soon as the Version of Record will be submitted, the raw single-unit data can be accessed directly through the following link:  https://doi.org/10.5061/dryad.qv9s4mwn4. The data that are presented in the figures of the present manuscript and were statistically analyzed are uploaded to the Zenodo repository (https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.15546625).  

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

L22. The term "hidden hearing loss" is used in many different ways in the literature, from being synonymous with cochlear synaptopathy, to being a description of any listening difficulties that are not accounted for by the audiogram (for which there are many other / older terms). The original usage was much more narrow than your definition here. It is not correct that Schaette and McAlpine defined HHL in the broad sense, as you imply. I suggest you avoid the term to prevent further confusion.  

We eliminated the term hidden hearing loss.

L43. SNHL is undefined.

Thank you for catching that. The term is now spelled out.

L64. "whether" -> "that"  

We corrected this issue.

L102. It would be informative to see the synapse counts (across groups) for the animals tested in the behavioral part of the study. Did these vary between groups in the same way?  

Yes, the pattern was the same for the subgroup of behaviorally tested animals. We have added this information to the revised version of the manuscript (lines 137 – 141).

L108. How many tests were considered in the Bonferroni correction? Did this cover all reported tests in the paper?  

The comparisons of synapse numbers between treatment groups were done with full Bonferroni correction, as in the other tests involving posthoc pair-wise comparisons after an ANOVA.

Figure 1 and 6 captions. Explain meaning of * and ** (criteria values).  

The information was added to the figure legends of now Figs. 1 and 7. 

L139. I don't follow the argument - the mean driven rate is not important. It is the rate at individual CFs and how that changes with frequency shift that provides the cue.

L142. I don't follow - individual driven rates might have been a cue (some going up, some down, as frequency was shifted).  

Yes, theoretically it is possible that the spectral pattern of driven rates (i.e., excitation pattern) can be specifically used for profile analysis and subsequently as a strong cue for discriminating the TFS1 stimuli. In order to shed some light on this question with regard to the actual stimuli used in this study, we added a comprehensive figure showing simulated excitation patterns (figure 8). The excitation patterns were generated with a gammatone filter bank and auditory filter bandwidths appropriate for gerbils (Kittel et al. 2002). The simulated excitation patterns allow to draw some at least semi-quantitative conclusions about the possibility of profile analysis: 1. In the 200/1600 Hz and 400/3200 Hz conditions (i.e., harmonic number of fc is 8), the difference between all inharmonic excitation patterns and the harmonic reference excitation pattern is far below the threshold for intensity discrimination (Sinnott et al. 1992). 2. In the same conditions, the statistics of the pink noise make excitation patterns differences at or beyond the filter slopes (on both high and low frequency limits) useless for frequency shift discrimination. 3. In the 400/1600 Hz condition (i.e., harmonic number of fc is 4), there is a non-negligible possibility that excitation pattern differences were a main cue for discrimination. All of these conclusions are compatible with the results of our study.

L193. Is this p-value Bonferroni corrected across the whole study? If not, the finding could well be spurious given the number of tests reported.  

Yes, it is Bonferroni corrected

L330. TFS is already defined.  

L346. AN is already defined.  

L408. "temporal fine structure" -> "TFS"  

It was a deliberate decision to define these terms again in the Discussion, for readers who prefer to skip most of the detailed Results. 

L364-366. This argument is somewhat misleading. Cochlear resolvability largely depends on the harmonic spacing (i.e., F0) relative to harmonic frequency (in other words, on harmonic rank). Marmel et al. (2015) and Moore and Sek (2009) used a center frequency (at least) 11 times F0. Here, the center frequency was only 4 or 8 times F0. In human, this would not be sufficient to eliminate excitation pattern cues.  

We have now included results from modeling the excitation patterns in the discussion with a new figure demonstrating that at a center frequency of 8 times F0, excitation patterns provide no useful cue while this is a possibility at  a center frequency of 4 times F0 (Fig. 8, lines 440 - 446).

L541. Was that a spectrum level of 20 dB SPL (level per 1-Hz wide band) at 1 kHz? Need to clarify.  

The power spectral density of the pink noise at 1 kHz (i.e., the level in a 1 Hz wide band centered at 1 kHz) was 13.3 dB SPL. The total level of the pink noise (including edge filters at 100 Hz and 11 kHz) was 50 dB SPL.

L919. So was the correction applied across only the tests within each ANOVA? Don't you need to control the study-wise error rate (across all primary tests) to avoid spurious findings?  

We added information about the family-wise error rate (line 1077 - 1078). Since the ANOVAs tested different specific research questions, we do not think that we need to control the study-wise error rate.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

There was no difference in TFS sensitivity in the AN fiber activity across all the groups. Potential deficits with age were only sound in the behavioral paradigm. Given that, it might make it clearer to specify that the deficits or lack thereof are in behavior, in multiple instances in the manuscript where it says synaptopathy showed no decline in TFS sensitivity (For example Line 342-344).  

We carefully went through the entire text and clarified a couple more instances.

L353 - this statement is a bit too strong. It implies causality when there is only a co-occurrence of increased f0 representation and age-related behavioral deficits in TFS1 task.  

The statement was rephrased as “Thus, cue representation may be associated with the perceptual deficits, but not reduced synapse numbers, as originally proposed.”

L465-467 - while this may be true, I think it is hard to say this with the current dataset where only AN fibers are being recorded from. I don't think we can say anything about afferent central mechanisms with this data set.  

We agree. However, we refer here to published data on central inhibition to provide a possible explanation. 

Hearing thresholds with ABRs are mentioned in the methods, but that data is not presented anywhere. Would be nice to see hearing thresholds across the various groups to account or discount outer hair cell dysfunction. 

This important point was made repeatedly and we thank the Reviewers for it. As indicated above, new data on threshold sensitivity and neural tuning were added in a new section of the Results which indirectly suggest that significant OHC pathologies were not a concern, neither in our young-adult, synaptopathic gerbils nor in the old gerbils.

This should be highlighted in a call out box or something because it is critical for anyone developing an R package.

eLife Assessment

This valuable study presents a theoretical model of how punctuated mutations influence multistep adaptation, supported by empirical evidence from some TCGA cancer cohorts. This solid model points to the case of possible punctuated evolution rather than gradual genomic change. There was some disagreement amongst the reviewers in terms of how closely the theoretical results apply to the phenomena examined empirically, and alternative explanations should be considered in the future.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

Grasper et al. present a combined analysis of the role of temporal mutagenesis in cancer, which includes both theoretical investigation and empirical analysis of point mutations in TCGA cancer patient cohorts. They find that temporal elevated mutation rates contribute to cancer fitness by allowing fast adaptation when the fitness drops (due to previous deleterious mutations). This may be relevant in the case of tumor suppressor genes (TSG), which follow the 2-hit hypothesis (i.e., biallelic 2 mutations are necessary to deactivate TS), and in cases where temporal mutagenesis occurs (e.g. high APOBEC, ROS). They provide evidence that this scenario is likely to occur in patients, in some cancer types. This is an interesting and potentially important result that merits the attention of the target audience. Nonetheless, I have some questions (detailed below) regarding the design of the study, the tools and parametrization of the theoretical analysis and the empirical analysis - that I think if addressed would make the paper more solid and the conclusion more substantiated.

Strengths:

Combined theoretical investigation with empirical analysis of cancer patients

Weaknesses:

Parametrization and systematic investigation of theoretical tools and their relevant to tumor evolution

Comments on revisions:

The authors have adequately addressed my suggestions. I think some of the details provided in some of the replies to my comments (specifically with regard to my points 1, 4, 6ii; minor point 6) could be integrated into relevant text in the introduction , discussion and methods, to help the readers follow better the model and its interpretation - but this is up to the authors to decide what to emphasize.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

This work presents theoretical results concerning the effect of punctuated mutation on multistep adaptation along with empirical analysis of multistep adaptation in cancer. The empirical results are claimed to demonstrate the acceleration of multistep adaptation predicted theoretically. However, there is an important disconnect between the theoretical results and the empirical observations, such that it is not clear that punctuated mutation can produce the phenomena observed empirically. Furthermore, there are other plausible explanations for the empirical observations.

The theoretical work emphasizes the positive effect of punctuated mutation on the rate of crossing a "fitness valley", i.e., multistep adaptation where the first mutation is deleterious. The empirical work, however, focuses on inactivation of both alleles of a tumor suppressor gene (TSG), for which the first mutation--inactivation of one gene copy--is expected to be neutral or slightly advantageous, not maladaptive as suggested by the authors. Pairs of genes with putative synergystic effects were also analyzed, but there is no indication that these generally involve fitness valleys either.

This disconnect is most glaring in Figure 4, in which the simulations are supposed to confirm that punctuated mutation can produce the empirical phenomena reported for TSG inactivation. If this is the case, it should be possible to produce such results in simulations in which inactivation of just one allele is neutral. Instead, simulations assuming a substantial fitness penalty (0.05) for the first mutation are presented. Contrary to what is claimed in the text (line 212), this is not a "biologically realistic" parameter value for TSG inactivation. The insensitivity of results to the size the fitness penalty is irrelevant: a substantial fitness penalty is qualitatively different from no penalty at all.

The paper does report a small (15%) effect of punctuation on the rate of multistep adaptation in the absence of a fitness valley. This effect is much smaller than the fourfold increase in the presence of a fitness valley. The results presented--a single stochastic run for each condition--are insufficient to establish that there is any effect at all: if we assume that the number of pairs of fixations (about 150-180 in each simulation) is Poisson distributed, the 15% difference is not statistically significant.

Assuming that this effect is genuine, it is likely due to a mutation rate that is unrealisitcally high (considering that "rescue" requires inactivation of a particular gene). Theoretical considerations suggest that punctuated mutation has little or no effect in the absence of a fitness valley in the limit of low mutation rate:

(A1) The authors' theoretical results for a Galton-Watson process (SI2) imply that there is no effect without a fitness valley in that limit. This is so because there is no effect in the "supercritical" regime. Cancer cells must be supercritical (otherwise there would be no net growth), and a neutral or advantangeous mutant would remain in the supercritical regime.

(A2) Fig. S2D indicates, as far as I can tell from the colors, that punctuation makes little or no difference to the rate of adaptation in the absence of a fitness valley, i.e., for vertical axis values of 1 or more. I am not sure why the authors (line 129) point to this figure as evidence that punctuation speeds two-step adaptation when the first mutation is not maladaptive; the figure appears to say that it does not. The fraction of events due to "stochastic tunneling" of course increases with punctuation, but that does not change the fact that adaptation is no faster.

(A3) The authors' verbal argument to the contrary (line 124ff) is flawed. Despite the fact that even a mildly advantageous mutant is likely to go extinct, its expected frequency only increases with time, and that of a neutral allele remains constant over time. Thus, the average number of opportunities for a second mutation does not decrease with time since the first mutation, as it does when the first muation is deleterious.

(A4) I ran some simulations for a Wright-Fisher population, and they seem to confirm the lack of an effect in the low mutation rate limit.

Thus, it is unclear whether punctuated mutation can explain the reported phenomena or should be expected to have major effects on the rate or nature of cancer cell adaptation.

I would also note that routes to inactivation of both copies of a TSG that are not accelerated by punctuation will dilute any effects of punctuation. An example is a single somatic mutation followed by loss of heterozygosity. Such mechanisms are not included in the theoretical analysis nor assessed empirically. If, for example, 90% of double inactivations were the result of such mechanisms with a constant mutation rate, a factor of two effect of punctuated mutagenesis would increase the overall rate by only 10%. Consideration of the rate of apparent inactivation of just one TSG copy and of deletion of both copies would shed some light on the importance of this consideration.

Several factors besides the effects of punctuated mutation might explain or contribute to the empirical observations. Though these are now mentioned in the paper, I will list them here for clarity:

(B1) High APOBEC3 activity can select for inactivation of TSGs (references in Butler and Banday 2023, PMID 36978147). This could explain the empirical correlations.

(B2) Without punctuation, the rate of multistep adaptation is expected to rise more than linearly with mutation rate. Thus, if APOBEC signatures are correlated with a high mutation rate due to the action of APOBEC, this alone could explain the correlation with TSG inactivation.

(B3) The nature of mutations caused by APOBEC might explain the results. Notably, one of the two APOBEC mutation signatures, SBS13, is particularly likely to produce nonsense mutations. The authors count both nonsense and missense mutations, but nonsense mutations are more likely to inactivate the gene, and hence to be selected.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

eLife Assessment

his valuable study presents a theoretical model of how punctuated mutations influence multistep adaptation, supported by empirical evidence from some TCGA cancer cohorts. This solid model is noteworthy for cancer researchers as it points to the case for possible punctuated evolution rather than gradual genomic change. However, the parametrization and systematic evaluation of the theoretical framework in the context of tumor evolution remain incomplete, and alternative explanations for the empirical observations are still plausible.

We thank the editor and the reviewers for their thorough engagement with our work. The reviewers’ comments have drawn our attention to several important points that we have addressed in the updated version. We believe that these modifications have substantially improved our paper.

There were two major themes in the reviewers’ suggestions for improvement. The first was that we should demonstrate more concretely how the results in the theoretical/stylized modelling parts of our paper quantitatively relate to dynamics in cancer.

To this end, we have now included a comprehensive quantification of the effect sizes of our results across large and biologically-relevant parameter ranges. Specifically, following reviewer 1’s suggestion to give more prominence to the branching process, we have added two figures (Fig S3-S4) quantifying the likelihood of multi-step adaptation in a branching process for a large range of mutation rates and birth-death ratios. Formulating our results in terms of birth-death ratios also allowed us to provide better intuition regarding how our results manifest in models with constant population size vs models of growing populations. In particular, the added figure (Fig S3) highlights that the effect size of temporal clustering on the probability of successful 2-step adaptation is very sensitive to the probability that the lineage of the first mutant would go extinct if it did not acquire a second mutation. As a result, the phenomenon we describe is biologically likely to be most effective in those phases during tumor evolution in which tumor growth is constrained. This important pattern had not been described sufficiently clearly in the initial version of our manuscript, and we thank both reviewers for their suggestions to make these improvements.

The second major theme in the reviewers’ suggestions was focused on how we relate our theoretical findings to readouts in genomic data, with both reviewers pointing to potential alternative explanations for the empirical patterns we describe.

We have now extended our empirical analyses following some of the reviewers’ suggestions. Specifically, we have included analyses investigating how the contribution of reactive oxygen species (ROS)-related mutation signatures correlates with our proxies for multi-step adaptation; and we have included robustness checks in which we use Spearman instead of Pearson correlations. Moreover, we have included more discussion on potential confounds and the assumptions going into our empirical analyses as well as the challenges in empirically identifying the phenomena we describe.

Below, we respond in detail to the individual comments made by each reviewer.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

Grasper et al. present a combined analysis of the role of temporal mutagenesis in cancer, which includes both theoretical investigation and empirical analysis of point mutations in TCGA cancer patient cohorts. They find that temporally elevated mutation rates contribute to cancer fitness by allowing fast adaptation when the fitness drops (due to previous deleterious mutations). This may be relevant in the case of tumor suppressor genes (TSG), which follow the 2-hit hypothesis (i.e., biallelic 2 mutations are necessary to deactivate TS), and in cases where temporal mutagenesis occurs (e.g., high APOBEC, ROS). They provide evidence that this scenario is likely to occur in patients with some cancer types. This is an interesting and potentially important result that merits the attention of the target audience. Nonetheless, I have some questions (detailed below) regarding the design of the study, the tools and parametrization of the theoretical analysis, and the empirical analysis, which I think, if addressed, would make the paper more solid and the conclusion more substantiated.

Strengths:

Combined theoretical investigation with empirical analysis of cancer patients.

Weaknesses:

Parametrization and systematic investigation of theoretical tools and their relevance to tumor evolution.

We sincerely thank Reviewer 1 for their comments. As communicated in more detail in the point-by-point replies to the “Recommendations for the authors”, we have revised the paper to address these comments in various ways. To summarize, Reviewer 1 asked for (1) more comprehensive analyses of the parameter space, especially in ranges of small fitness effects and low mutation rates; (2) additional clarifications on details of mechanisms described in the manuscript; and (3) suggested further robustness checks to our empirical analyses. We have addressed these points as follows: we have added detailed analyses of dynamics and effect sizes for branching processes (see Sections SI2 and SI3 in the Supplementary Information, as well as Figures S3 and S4). As suggested, these additions provide characterizations of effect sizes in biologically relevant parameter ranges (low mutation rates and smaller fitness effect sizes), and extend our descriptions to processes with dynamically changing population sizes. Moreover, we have added further clarifications at suggested points in the manuscript, e.g. to elaborate on the non-monotonicities in Fig 3. Lastly, we have undertaken robustness checks using Spearman rather than Pearson correlation coefficients to quantify relations between TSG deactivation and APOBEC signature contribution, and have performed analyses investigating dynamics of reactive oxygen species-associated mutagenesis instead of APOBEC.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

This work presents theoretical results concerning the effect of punctuated mutation on multistep adaptation and empirical evidence for that effect in cancer. The empirical results seem to agree with the theoretical predictions. However, it is not clear how strong the effect should be on theoretical grounds, and there are other plausible explanations for the empirical observations.

Thank you very much for these comments. We have now substantially expanded our investigations of the parameter space as outlined in the response to the “eLife Assessment” above and in the detailed comments below (A(1)-A(3)) to convey more quantitative intuition for the magnitude of the effects we describe for different phases of tumor evolution. We agree that there could be potential additional confounders to our empirical investigations besides the challenges regarding quantification that we already described in our initial version of the manuscript. We have thus included further discussion of these in our manuscript (see replies to B(1)-B(3)), and we have expanded our empirical analyses as outlined in the response to the “eLife Assessment”.

For various reasons, the effect of punctuated mutation may be weaker than suggested by the theoretical and empirical analyses:

(A1) The effect of punctuated mutation is much stronger when the first mutation of a two-step adaptation is deleterious (Figure 2). For double inactivation of a TSG, the first mutation--inactivation of one copy--would be expected to be neutral or slightly advantageous. The simulations depicted in Figure 4, which are supposed to demonstrate the expected effect for TSGs, assume that the first mutation is quite deleterious. This assumption seems inappropriate for TSGs, and perhaps the other synergistic pairs considered, and exaggerates the expected effects.

Thank you for highlighting this discrepancy between Figure 2 and Figure 4. For computational efficiency and for illustration purposes, we had opted for high mutation rates and large fitness effects in Figure 2; however, our results are valid even in the setting of lower mutation rates and fitness effects. To improve the connection to Figure 4, and to address other related comments regarding parameter dependencies, we have now added more detailed quantification of the effects we describe (Figures SF3 and SF4) to the revised manuscript. These additions show that the effects illustrated in Figure 2 retain large effect sizes when going to much lower mutation rates and much smaller fitness effects. Indeed, while under high mutation rates we only see the large relative effects if the first mutation is highly deleterious, these large effects become more universal when going to low mutation rates.

In general, it is correct that the selective disadvantage (or advantage) conveyed by the first mutation affects the likelihood of successful 2-step adaptations. It is also correct that the magnitude of the ‘relative effect’ of temporal clustering on valley-crossing is highest if the lineage with only the first of the two mutations is vanishingly unlikely to produce a second mutant before going extinct. If the first mutation is strongly deleterious, the lineage of such a first mutant is likely to quickly go extinct – and therefore also more likely to do so before producing a second mutant.

However, this likelihood of producing the second mutant is also low if the mutation rate is low. As our added figure (Figure SF3) illustrates, at low mutation rates appropriate for cancer cells, is insensitive to the magnitude of the fitness disadvantage for large parts of the parameter space. Especially in populations of constant size (approximated by a birth/death ratio of 1), the relative effects for first mutations that reduce the birth rate by 0.5 or by 0.05 are indistinguishable (Figure SF3f).

Moreover, the absolute effect , as we discuss in the paper (Figures SF2 and SF3) is largest in regions of the parameter space in which the first mutant is not infinitesimally unlikely to produce a second mutant (and 𝑓_𝑘 and 𝑓₁ would be infinitesimally small), but rather in parameter regions in which this first mutant has a non-negligible chance to produce a second mutant. The absolute effect therefore peaks around fitness-neutral first mutations. While the next comment (below) says that our empirical investigations more closely resemble comparisons of relative effects and not absolute effects, we would expect that the observations in our data come preferentially from multi-step adaptations with large absolute effect since the absolute effect is maximal when both 𝑓_𝑘 and 𝑓₁are relatively high.

In summary, we believe Figure 2, while having exaggerated parameters for very defendable reasons, is not a misleading illustration of the general phenomenon or of its applicability in biological settings, as effect sizes remain large when moving to biologically realistic parameter ranges. To clarify this issue, we have largely rewritten the relevant paragraphs in the results section and have added two additional figures (Figures SF3 and SF4) as well as a section in the SI with detailed discussion (SI2).

(A2) More generally, parameter values affect the magnitude of the effect. The authors note, for example, that the relative effect decreases with mutation rate. They suggest that the absolute effect, which increases, is more important, but the relative effect seems more relevant and is what is assessed empirically.

Thank you for this comment. As noted in the replies to the above comments, we have now included extensive investigations of how sensitive effect sizes are to different parameter choices. We also apologize for insufficiently clearly communicating how the quantities in Figure 4 relate to the findings of our theoretical models.

The challenge in relating our results to single-timepoint sequencing data is that we only observe the mutations that a tumor has acquired, but we do not directly observe the mutation rate histories that brought about these mutations. As an alternative readout, we therefore consider (through rough proxies: TSGs and APOBEC signatures) the amount of 2-step adaptations per acquired/retained mutation. While we unfortunately cannot control for the average mutation rate in a sample, we motivate using this “TSG-deactivation score” by the hypothesis that for any given mutation rate, we expect a positive relationship between the amount of temporal clustering and the amount of 2-step adaptations per acquired/retained mutation. This hypothesis follows directly from our theoretical model where it formally translates to the statement that for a fixed , is increasing in .

However, while both quantities 𝑓_𝑘/𝑓₁  or from our theoretical model relate to this hypothesis – both are increasing in 𝑘–, neither of them maps directly onto the formulation of our empirical hypothesis.

We have now rewritten the relevant passages of the manuscript to more clearly convey our motivation for constructing our TSG deactivation score in this form (P. 4-6).

(A3) Routes to inactivation of both copies of a TSG that are not accelerated by punctuation will dilute any effects of punctuation. An example is a single somatic mutation followed by loss of heterozygosity. Such mechanisms are not included in the theoretical analysis nor assessed empirically. If, for example, 90% of double inactivations were the result of such mechanisms with a constant mutation rate, a factor of two effect of punctuated mutagenesis would increase the overall rate by only 10%. Consideration of the rate of apparent inactivation of just one TSG copy and of deletion of both copies would shed some light on the importance of this consideration.

This is a very good point, thank you. In our empirical analyses, the main motivation was to investigate whether we would observe patterns that are qualitatively consistent with our theoretical predictions, i.e. whether we would find positive associations between valley-crossing and temporal clustering. Our aim in the empirical analyses was not to provide a quantitative estimate of how strongly temporally clustered mutation processes affect mutation accumulation in human cancers. We hence restricted attention to only one mutation process which is well characterized to be temporally clustered (APOBEC mutagenesis) and to only one category of (epi)genomic changes (SNPs, in which APOBEC signatures are well characterized). Of course, such an analysis ignores that other mutation processes (e.g. LOH, copy number changes, methylation in promoter regions, etc.) may interact with the mechanisms that we consider in deactivating Tumor suppressor genes.

We have now updated the text to include further discussion of this limitation and further elaboration to convey that our empirical analyses are not intended as a complete quantification of the effect of temporal clustering on mutagenesis in-vivo (P. 10,11).

Several factors besides the effects of punctuated mutation might explain or contribute to the empirical observations:

(B1) High APOBEC3 activity can select for inactivation of TSGs (references in Butler and Banday 2023, PMID 36978147). This selective force is another plausible explanation for the empirical observations.

Thank you for making this point. We agree that increased APOBEC3 activity, or any other similar perturbation, can change the fitness effect that any further changes/perturbations to the cell would bring about. Our empirical analyses therefore rely on the assumption that there are no major confounding structural differences in selection pressures between tumors with different levels of APOBEC signature contributions. We have expanded our discussion section to elaborate on this potential limitation (P. 10-11).

While the hypothesis that APOBEC3 activity selects for inactivation of TSGSs has been suggested, there remain other explanations. Either way, the ways in which selective pressures have been suggested to change would not interfere relevantly with the effects we describe. The paper cited in the comment argues that “high APOBEC3 activity may generate a selective pressure favoring” TSG mutations as “APOBEC creates a high [mutation] burden, so cells with impaired DNA damage response (DDR) due to tumor suppressor mutations are more likely to avert apoptosis and continue proliferating”. To motivate this reasoning, in the same passage, the authors cite a high prevalence of TP53 mutations across several cancer types with “high burden of APOBEC3-induced mutations”, but also note that “this trend could arise from higher APOBEC3 expression in p53-mutated tumors since p53 may suppress APOBEC3B transcription via p21 and DREAM proteins”.

Translated to our theoretical framework, this reasoning builds on the idea that APOBEC3 activity increases the selective advantage of mutants with inactivation of both copies of a TSG. In contrast, the mechanism we describe acts by altering the chances of mutants with only one TSG allele inactivated to inactivate the second allele before going extinct. If homozygous inactivation of TSGs generally conveys relatively strong fitness advantages, lineages with homozygous inactivation would already be unlikely to go extinct. Further increasing the fitness advantage of such lineages would thus manifest mostly in a quicker spread of these lineages, rather than in changes in the chance that these lineages survive. In turn, such a change would have limited effect on the “rate” at which such 2-step adaptations occur, but would mostly affect the speed at which they fixate. It would be interesting to investigate these effects empirically by quantifying the speed of proliferation and chance of going extinct for lineages that newly acquired inactivating mutations in TSGs.

Beyond this explicit mention of selection pressures, the cited paper also discusses high occurrences of mutations in TSGs in relation to APOBEC. These enrichments, however, are not uniquely explained by an APOBEC-driven change in selection pressures. Indeed, our analyses would also predict such enrichments.

(B2) Without punctuation, the rate of multistep adaptation is expected to rise more than linearly with mutation rate. Thus, if APOBEC signatures are correlated with a high mutation rate due to the action of APOBEC, this alone could explain the correlation with TSG inactivation.

Thank you for making this point. Indeed, an identifying assumption that we make is that average mutation rates are balanced between samples with a higher vs lower APOBEC signature contribution. We cannot cleanly test this assumption, as we only observe aggregate mutation counts but not mutation rates. However, the fact that we observe an enrichment for APOBEC-associated mutations among the set of TSG-inactivating mutations (see Figure 4F) would be consistent with APOBEC-mutations driving the correlations in Fig 4D, rather than just average mutation rates. We have now added a paragraph to our manuscript to discuss these points (P. 10-11).

(B3) The nature of mutations caused by APOBEC might explain the results. Notably, one of the two APOBEC mutation signatures, SBS13, is particularly likely to produce nonsense mutations. The authors count both nonsense and missense mutations, but nonsense mutations are more likely to inactivate the gene, and hence to be selected.

Thank you for making this point.  We have included it in our discussion of potential confounders/limitations in the revised manuscript (P. 10-11).  

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

Specific questions/comments/suggestions:

(1) For the theoretical investigation, the authors use the Wright-Fisher model with specific parameters for the decrease/increase in the fitness (0.5,1.5). This model is not so relevant to cancer, because it assumes a constant population size, while in cancer, the population is dynamic (increasing, if the tumor grows). Although I see they mention relevance to the branching process (in SI), I think the branching process should be bold in the main text and the Wright-Fisher in SI (or even dropped).

Thank you for this comment. We agree that too little attention had been given to the branching process in the original version of our manuscript. While the Wright-Fisher process is computationally efficient to simulate and thus lends itself to clean simulations for illustrative examples, it did lead us to put undue emphasis on populations of constant size.

The added Figures SF2 and SF3 now focus on branching processes, and we have substantially expanded our discussion of how dynamics differ as a function of the population-size trajectory (constant vs growing; SI2, P. 4,9,10). Generally, we do believe that it is appropriate to consider both regimes. If tumors evolve from being confined within their site of origin to progressively invading adjacent tissues and organ compartments, they traverse different regions of the birth-death ratio parameter space. Moreover, the timing of transitions between phases of more or less constrained growth is likely closely tied to adaptation dynamics, since breaching barriers to expansion requires adapting to novel environments and selection pressures.

We hope that the revised version of the manuscript conveys these points more clearly, and thank you for alerting us to this imbalance in the original version of our manuscript.

(2) The parameters 0.5 (decrease in fitness) and 1.5 (increase in fitness) seem exaggerated (the typical values for the selective advantage are usually much lower (by an order of magnitude). The same goes for the mutation rate. The authors chose values of the order 0.001, while in cancer (and generally) it is much lower than that (10-5 - 10-6). I think that generally, the authors should present a more systematic analysis of the sensitivity of the results to these parameters.

Thank you very much for this very important comment. We have made this a major focus in our revisions (see our reply to the editor’s comments). As suggested, we have now added further analyses to explore more biologically relevant parameter regimes. Reviewer 2 has made a similar remark, and to avoid redundancies, we point for a more detailed response to our response to that comment (A1).

(3) In Figure 3, the authors explore the sensitivity to mu (mutation rate) and k (temporal clustering) and find a non-monotonic behavior (Figure 3C). However, this behavior is not well explained. I think some more explanations are required here.

Thank you for pointing this out. We had initially relegated the more detailed explanations to the SI2 (which in the revised manuscript became SI4), but are happy to provide more elaboration in the main text, and have done so now (P. 5).

For , the non-monotonicity reflects the exploration-exploitation tradeoff that this section is dedicated to very small  values (little exploration) prevent the population from finding fitness peaks. In contrast, once a fitness peak is reached, excessively large  values (little exploitation) scatter the population away from this peak to points of lower fitness.

For , the most relevant dynamic is that at high , the population becomes unable to find close-by fitness improvements (1-step adaptations) if it is not in a burst. As 𝑘 increases, this delay in adaptation (until a burst occurs) eventually comes to outweigh the benefits of high 𝑘 (better ability to undergo multi-step adaptations). Additionally, if 𝑘 ∙ μ becomes very large, clonal interference eventually leads to diminishing exploration-returns when 𝑘 is increased further (Fig 5C), as the per-cell likelihood of finding a specific fitness peak eventually saturates and increasing  only causes multiple cells to find the same peak, rather than one cell finding this peak and its lineage fixating in the population.

(4) In Figure 5, where the authors show the accumulation of the first (red; deleterious mutation) and second (blue; advantageous mutation), it seems that the fraction of deleterious mutations is much lower than that of advantageous mutations. This is opposite to the case of cancer, where most of the mutations are 'passengers', (slightly) deleterious or neutral mutations. Can the author explain this discrepancy and generally the relation of their parametrization to deleterious vs. advantageous mutations?

Thank you for this comment. In general, we have focused attention in our paper on sequences of mutations that bring about a fitness increase. We call those sequences ‘adaptations’ and categorize these as one-step or multi-step, depending on whether or not they contain intermediates states with a fitness disadvantage.

In our modelling, we do not consider mutations that are simply deleterious and are not a necessary part of a multi-step adaptation sequence. The motivation for this abstraction is, firstly, to focus on adaptation dynamics, and secondly, that in certain limits (small mu and large constant population sizes), lineages with only deleterious mutations have a probability close to one of going extinct, so that any emerging deleterious mutant would likely be 'washed out’ of the population before a new mutation emerges.

However, whether the dynamics of how neutral or deleterious passenger mutations are acquired also vary relevantly with the extent of temporal clustering is a valid and interesting question that would warrant its own study. The types of theoretical arguments for such an investigation would be very similar to the ones we use in our paper.

(5) The theoretical investigation assumes a multi/2-step adaptation scenario where the first mutation is deleterious and the second is advantageous. I think this should be generalized and further explored. For example, what happens when there are multiple mutations that are slightly deleterious (as probably is the case in cancer) and only much later mutations confer a selective advantage? How stable is the "valley crossing" if more deleterious mutations occur after the 2 steps?

This is also an important point and relates in part to the previous comment (4).  For discussion of interactions with deleterious mutations, please see the reply to comment (4).  

Regarding generalizations of this valley-crossing scenario, note that any sequence of mutations that increases fitness can be decomposed into sequences of either one-step or multi-step adaptations, as defined  in the paper. Therefore, if all intermediate states before the final selectively advantageous state have a selective disadvantage making the lineages of such cells likely to go extinct, then our derivations in S1 apply, and the relative effect of temporal clustering becomes where n is the number of intermediate states. If, conversely, any of the intermediate states already had a selective advantage, then our model would consider the subsequence until this first mutation with a selective advantage as its individual (one-step or multi-step) “adaptation”.

The second question, “How stable is the "valley crossing" if more deleterious mutations occur after the 2 steps?”, touches on a different property of the population dynamics, namely on how the fate of a mutant lineage depends on how this lineage emerged. In our paper, we compare different levels of temporal clustering for a fixed average mutation rate. This choice implies that, if we assume that the mutant that emerges from a valley-crossing does not go extinct, then the number of deleterious mutations expected to occur in this lineage, once emerged, will not depend on the extent of temporal clustering. However, if in-burst mutation rates increased the expected burden of early acquired deleterious mutations sufficiently much to affect the probability that the lineage with a multi-step adaptation goes extinct before the burst ends, then there may indeed be an interaction between effects of deleterious passengers and temporal clustering. We would, however, expect effects on this probability of early extinction to be relatively minor, since such a lineage with a selective advantage would quickly grow to large cell-numbers implying that it would require a large number of co-occurring and sufficiently deleterious mutations across these cells for the lineage to go extinct.

(6) For the empirical analysis of TCGA cohorts, the authors focus on the contribution of APOBEC mutations (via signature analysis) to temporal mutagenesis. They find only a few cancer types (Figure 4D) that follow their prediction (in Figure 4C) of a correlation between TSG deactivation and temporal mutations in bursts. I think two main points should be addressed:

Thank you for this comment. We will respond in detail to the corresponding points below, but would like to note here that while we find this correlation “in only a few cancer types”, we also show that only few cancer types have relevant proportions of mutations caused by APOBEC, and it is precisely in these cancer types that we find a correlation.  We have clarified this aspect in the revised version of the manuscript (P.7).

(i) APOBEC is not the only cause for temporal mutagenesis. For example, elevated ROS and hypoxia are also potential contributors - it might therefore be important to extend the signature analysis (to include more possible sources for temporal mutagenesis). Potentially, such an extension may show that more cancer types follow the author's prediction.

Thank you for this interesting suggestion. We have now included analogous analyses for contributions of signature SBS18 which is associated with ROS mutagenesis, and for the joint contribution of signatures SBS17a, SBS17b, SBS18 and SBS36, which all have been shown (some in a more context-dependent manner) to be associated with ROS mutagenesis. When doing so, we do not find a clear trend. However, we also do not find these signatures to account for substantial proportions of the acquired mutations, meaning that ROS mutagenesis likely also does not account for much of the variation in how temporally clustered the mutation rate trajectories of different tumors are. We have incorporated these results and their discussion in the manuscript (SI5 and Fig S8).

(ii) The TSG deactivation score used by the authors only counts the number of mutations and does not consider if the 2 mutations are biallelic, which is highly important in this case. There are ways to investigate the specific allele of mutations in TCGA data (for example, see Ciani et al. Cell Sys 2022 PMID: 34731645). Given the focus on TSG of this study, I think it is important to account for this in the analysis.

Thank you for making this point. We did initially consider inferring allele-specific mutation status, but decided against it as this would have shrunk our dataset substantially, thus potentially introducing unwanted biases. Determining whether two mutations lie on the same or on different alleles requires either (1) observing sequencing reads that either cover the loci of both mutations, or (2) tracing whether (sets of) other SNPs on the same gene co-occur exclusively with one of the two considered mutations. These requirements lead to a substantial filtering of the observed mutations. Moreover, this filtering would be especially strong for tumors with a small overall mutation burden, as these would have fewer co-occurring SNPs to leverage in this inference. We would have hence preferentially filtered out TSG-deactivating mutations in tumors with low mutation burden. We have modified the text to address this point (P.14).

(7) To continue point 4. I wonder why some known cancer types with high APOBEC signatures (e.g., lung, mentioned in the introduction) do not appear in the results of Figure 4. Can the author explain why it is missed?

We do provide complete results for all categories in Supplementary Figure 3. To not overwhelm the figure in the main text, we only show the four categories with the highest average APOBEC signature contribution, beyond those four, average APOBEC signature contributions quickly drop. Lung-related categories do not feature in these top four (Lung squamous cell carcinoma are fifth and Lung adenocarcinoma are eighth in this ordering).

Minors:

(1) It is worth mentioning the relevance to resistance to treatment (see https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-025-02187-1).

Thank you for this suggestion. We have included a mention of the relation to this paper in the discussion section (P. 11).

(2) Some of the figures' resolution should be improved - specifically, Figures 4, S1, and S5, which are not clear/readable.

Thank you for pointing this out. This was the result of conversion to a word document. We will provide tif files in the revisions to have better resolution.

(3) Regarding Figure 3e,f. How come that moving from K=1 to K=I doesn't show any changes in fitness - it looks as if in both cases the value fluctuates around comparable mean fitness? Is that the case?

While fitness differences between simulations with different k manifest robustly over long time-horizons (see Fig 3C with results over  generations), there are various sources of substantial stochasticity that make the fitness values in these short-term plots (Fig3D-F) imperfect illustrations of how long-term average fitness behaves. For instance, fitness landscapes are drawn randomly which introduces variability in how high and how close-by different fitness peaks are. Similarly, there is substantial randomness since both the type (direction on the 2-D fitness landscape) and the timing of mutation are stochastic.

The short-term plots in Fig3D-F are intended to showcase representative dynamics of transitions between points on the genotype space with different fitness values following a redrawing of the landscape – but not necessarily to provide a comparison between the height of the attained (local) fitness-maxima.  

(4) Figures 4c,d - correlation should be Spearman, not Pearson (it's not a linear relationship).

Thank you for this comment. As a robustness check, we have generated the same figures using Spearman and not Pearson correlations and find results that are qualitatively consistent with the initially shown results. Indeed, using Spearman correlations, all four cancer types from Fig 4D have significant correlations.

(5) Typo for E) "...in samples of the cancer types in (C) were caused by APOBEC" - it should be D (not C) I guess.

Thank you for catching this. We fixed the typo.

(6) Figure 5 - the mutation rate is too high (0.001), sensitivity to that? Also the fitness change is exaggerated (0.5, 1.5), and the division of mutations to 100 and 100 (200 in total) loci is not clear.

Thank you for making this point. In this simulation setting it is unfortunately computationally prohibitively expensive to perform simulations at biologically realistic mutation rates. Therefore, we have scaled up the mutation rate while scaling down the population size. Moreover, the choice of model here is not meant to resemble a biologically realistic dynamic, but rather to create a stylized setting to be able to consider the interplay between clonal interference and facilitated valley-crossing in isolation. The key result from this figure is the separation of time scales at which low or high temporal clustering maximizes adaptability.

However, known parameter dependencies in these models allow us to reason about how tuning individual parameters of this stylized model would affect the relative importance of effects of clonal interference. This relative importance is largest when mutants are likely to co-occur on different competing clones in a population. The likelihood of such co-occurrences decreases substantially if decreasing the mutation rate to biologically realistic values. However, this likelihood also sensitively depends on the time that it takes a clone with a one-step adaptation to spread through the population. Smaller fitness advantages, as well as larger population sizes, slow down this process of taking over the population, which increases the likelihood of clonal interference. We now discuss these points in our revised manuscript (P. 8).

7) In the results text (last section) "Performing simulations for 2-step adaptations, we found that fixation rates are non-monotone in k. While at low k increasing k leads to a steep increase in the fixation rate, this trend eventually levels off and becomes negative, with further increases in k leading to a decrease in the fixation rate". Where are the results of this? It should be bold and apparent.

Thank you for alerting us that this is unclear. The relevant figure reference is indeed Fig 5C as in the preceding passage in the manuscript. However, we noticed that due to the presence of the steadily decreasing black line for 1-step adaptations, it is not easy to see that also the blue line is downward sloping. We have added a further reference to Fig 5C, and have adapted the grid spacing in the background of that figure-panel to make this trend more easily visible.

(8) Although not inconceivable, conclusions regarding resistance in the discussion are overstated. If you want to make this statement, you need to show that in resistant tumors, the temporal mutagenesis is responsible for progression vs. non-resistant/sensitive cases (is that the case), otherwise this should be toned down.

Thank you for pointing this out. We have tempered these conclusions in the revised version of the manuscript (P. 11).

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

(1) It might be useful to look specifically at X-linked TSGs. On the authors' interpretation, their relative inactivation rates should not be correlated with APOBEC signatures in males (but should be in females), though the size of the dataset may preclude any definite conclusions.

Thank you for this suggestion. Indeed, the size of the dataset unfortunately makes such analyses infeasible. Moreover, it is not clear whether X-linked TSGs might have structurally different fitness dynamics than TSGs on other chromosomes. However, this is an interesting suggestion worth following up on as more synergistic pairs confined to the X-chromosome are getting identified.

(2) Might there be value in distinguishing tumors that carry mutations expected to increase APOBEC expression from those that do not? Among several reasons, an APOBEC signature due to such a mutation and an APOBEC signature due to abortive viral infection may differ with respect to the degree of punctuation.

This is also an interesting suggestion for future investigations, but for which we unfortunately do not have sufficient information to build a meaningful analysis. In particular, it is unclear to what extent the degree and manifestation of episodicity/punctuation varies between these different mechanisms. Burst duration and intensity, as well as out-of-burst baseline rates of APOBEC mutagenesis likely differ in ways that are yet insufficiently characterized, which would make any result of analyses like these in Fig 4 hard to interpret.

(3) Also, in that paragraph, is "proportional to" used loosely to mean "an increasing function of"?

Thank you for this comment. We are not quite sure which paragraph is meant, but we use the term “proportional” in a literal sense at every point it is mentioned in the paper.

For the occurrences of the term on pages 3, 10 and 11, the word is used in reference to probabilities of reproduction (division in the branching process, or ‘being drawn to populate a spot in the next generation’ in the WF process) being “proportional” to fitness. These probabilities are constructed by dividing each individual cell’s fitness by the total fitness summed across all cells in the population. As the population acquires fitness-enhancing mutations, the resulting proportionality constant (1/total_fitness) changes, so that the mapping from ‘fitness’ to probability of reproduction in the next reproduction event changes over time. Nevertheless, this mapping always remains fitness-proportional.

On page 4, the term is used as follows: “the absolute rates 𝑓_𝑘 and 𝑓₁ are proportional to µ^n+1”. Here, proportionality in the literal sense follows from the equations on page 20, when setting , so that the second factor becomes µⁿ⁺¹.  We have included a clarifying sentence to address this in the derivations (SI1).

(4) It could be mentioned in the main text that the time between bursts (d) must not be too short in order for the effect to be substantial. I would think that the relevant timescale depends on how deleterious the initial mutation is.

Thank you for making this interesting and very relevant point. We have included a section (SI3) and Figure (Fig S4) in the supplement to investigate the dependence on d. In short, we find that effects are weaker for small inter-burst intervals. The sensitivity to the burst size is highest for inter-burst intervals that are sufficiently small so that the lineage of the first mutant has relevant probability of surviving long enough to experience multiple burst phases.

(5) Why not report that relative rate for Figure 2E as for 2D, as the former would seem to be more relevant to TSGs? And why was it assumed that the first inactivation is deleterious in the simulations in Figure 4 if the goal is to model TSGs?

Thank you for noting this. For how we revised the paper to better connect Figures 2 and 4, please see our comment (A1) above. In general, neither 2E nor 2D should serve as quantitative predictions for what effect size we should expect in real world data, but are rather curated illustrations of the general phenomenon that we describe: we chose high mutation rates and exaggerated fitness effects so that dynamics become visually tractable in small simulation examples.

For figure 4, assuming that the first inactivation is deleterious achieves that the branching process for the mutant lineage becomes subcritical, which keeps the simulation example simple and illustrative. For more comprehensive motivation of the approach in 4D, and especially the discussion of how fitness effects of different magnitudes may or may not be subject to the effects we describe depending on whether the population is in a phase of constant or growing population size, we refer the reader to our added section SI2, and the added discussion on pages 6 and 10.

(6) Figure 2, D and E. I'm not sure why heatmaps with height one were provided rather than simple plots over time. It is difficult, for example, to determine from a heatmap whether the increase is linear or the relative rates with and without punctuation.

Thank you for this comment. These are not heatmaps with height one, but rather for every column of pixels, different segments of that column correspond to different clones within that population. This approach is intended to convey the difference in dynamics between the results in Fig 2 and the analogous results for a branching process in Fig S1. In Fig 2, valley-crossings happen sequentially, with subsequent fixations of adapted mutants. In Fig S1, with a growing population size, multiple clones with different numbers of adaptations coexist. We have now adapted the caption of Fig 2 to clarify this point.

(7) Page 3: "High mutation rates are known to limit the rate of 1-step adaptations due to clonal interference." This is a bit misleading, as it makes it sound like increasing the mutation rate decreases the rate of one-step adaptations.

Thank you for alerting us to this poor phrasing. We have changed it in the revised version of the manuscript (P. 3).

(8) Page 4: "proportional to \mu^{n+1}" Is "proportional" being used loosely for "an increasing function of"?

It is meant in the literal mathematical sense (see response to comment (3))

(9) Page 5, near bottom: "at least two mutations across the population". In the same genome?

We counted mutations irrespective of whether they emerged in the same genome, to remain analogous to the TCGA analyses for which we also do not have single cell-resolved information.

(10) Page 6: "missense or nonsense mutation". What about indels? If these are not affected by APOBEC, omitting them will exaggerate the effect of punctuation.

Thank you for pointing out that this focus on single nucleotide substitutions conveys an exaggerated image of the importance of this effect of APOBEC-driven mutagenesis. There are of course several other classes of (epi)genomic alterations (e.g. chromatin modifications, methylation changes, copy number changes) that we do not consider in this part of our analysis. APOBEC mutagenesis serves as an example of a temporally clustered mutation process, which we investigate in its domain of action.

We have added further discussion (P. 10-11) to convey that our empirical results merely constitute an investigation of whether empirical patterns are consistent with our hypothesis, but that the narrow focus on only SNVs, only TSGs, and only APOBEC mutagenesis does not allow for a general quantitative statement about the in-vivo relevance of the phenomena we describe.

(11) Page 6: "normalized by the total number of single nucleotide substitutions." It is difficult to know how to normalize correctly, but I might think that the square of the number of substitutions would be more appropriate. Perhaps the total numbers are close enough that it matters little.

Thank you for noting this. In the revised manuscript we have now expanded this passage in the text to more clearly convey our motivations for why we normalize by the total number of single nucleotide substitutions. While the likelihood for crossing a fitness valley with 2 mutations is indeed proportional to the square of the mutation rate, we do not directly observe mutation rates from our data.  Rather, we observe the number of acquired single nucleotide substitutions for every tumor sample, but since tumors in our data differ in the time since initiation and therefore differ in the numbers of divisions their cells have undergone before being sequenced, we cannot directly infer mutation rates. One way to phrase our main result about valley-crossing is that temporally clustered mutation processes have an increased rate of successful valley-crossings per attempted valley crossing. Our TSG deactivation score is constructed to reflect this idea. The number of TSGs serves as a proxy for successful valley-crossings and the total mutation burden serves as a proxy for attempted valley-crossings.

To convey these points more clearly, we have rewritten the first paragraph in the Section “Proxies for valley crossing and for temporal clustering found in patient data” (P.6)

(12) Perhaps embed links to the COSMIC web pages for SBS2 and SBS13 in the text.

Thank you for this suggestion. We have embedded the links at the first mention of SBS2 and SBS13 in the text.

We could've just used that money to provide universal healthcare

As I am unfamiliar with the original Shakespeare play, I don't actually know the original meaning behind the lines from the song Be As Thou Wast. I wonder how those lines were originally used?

I wonder how the writers meant for Timothy's lover's enduring love to be interpreted. In the original play, only Lysander is given the antidote for the love potion, so the pairing of Demetrius and Helena, while good for the happy ending, can be viewed as unnatural. However, it is implied that Timothy cured everyone in the town, but his lover still loves him. It is never stated why this is, as he could secretly already had a crush on Timothy, or not actually been cured, or maybe Ms. Tebbit did something. I feel like this is left ambiguous on purpose, but to me it is important because it plays a role into the writers' message the article mentions about true acceptance, versus the forced acceptance that Timothy inflicts upon the town

I was pleasantly surprised by the writer's ability to subvert expectations. While I am unfamiliar with the original Shakespeare script, I was surprised by the song Timothy sings when he crafts the love flower, as I believe that wasn't actually originally Puck's song, though I could be wrong. More importantly, that perceived blending of original material into this adaptation in a way that seems natural speaks volumes to the genius of the writers.

I found it rather interesting that this story isn't about Timothy finding confidence in his identity, or acceptance from his close family and friends, as his best friends already accept him for who he is, and while they fight at times his mother accepts him too, despite her struggles with reconciling that acceptance with the demands of of society as a whole. This is instead, as the article states, about the town as a whole coming to tolerate, if not accept, homosexuality. while it was confusing for the first 1/3 of the movie or so as I had trouble understanding what the conflict could be, I believe this is actually a very important and often overlooked idea.

It is also to my understanding that in Elizabethan London, younger boys were primarily used to play female roles, due to their less developed stature and higher pitched voices. I wonder if the writers intended to also draw this parallel by setting Timothy and the other boys as seniors, about to embark out into adulthood, or if this was more a representative choice of the modern conflict between younger and older generations in America about homosexuality.

In the movie, Mrs. Tebbit initially seems supportive of Timothy's goals, but slowly begins to reprimand him as he goes further and further. I initially assumed she would be a representation of Oberon or Titania, she didn't really seem to fit into the either of those roles, at least as I understand them. in this case, I wonder exactly who the writers intended her to represent.

therefore separate spheres idea too rigid, western centric

example of difference between women and gender histories = patriarchal equilibriums still show women as victims rather than agents

relate to patriarchal equilibriums

use this as criticism of women's history - link to history from below

acknowledge this in history workshop section

link to history from below

left out of history writing since it became professionalised in the 19th/20th

helpful for end of first section

use the banner "Grafický návrh zdarma" e.g. from https://test2025.mitkoforevents.cz/nuzkove-stany/3x3/

Uspořádání s pivními sety +the same corrections in the remaining sizes

use the banner "Grafický návrh zdarma" e.g. from the page https://test2025.mitkoforevents.cz/nuzkove-stany/3x3/

use everywhere incl. all the menus correct description "Párty stan Jehlan", like it´s on https://test2025.mitkoforevents.cz/party-stany/

The part about Plato and the invention of writing made me laugh a bit, because it feels exactly like when adults now complain that TikTok is destroying attention spans. It makes me think maybe every generation just believes new technology is dangerous. But the examples like Eli Whitney or infinite scroll also remind me that sometimes the negative effects are real. So I’m kinda stuck between thinking “people always overreact” and “sometimes they’re totally right.” This section made me realize tech creators should slow down more, but honestly these days nobody slows down.

I looked at the Alfred Nobel page listed here, and what surprised me is how similar his situation feels to modern tech founders. He invented something powerful (dynamite), and even though he probably thought it would help construction and industry, it also increased violence. Reading this made me think about modern tools like AI or data mining — people create them hoping for good uses, but they can easily turn harmful too. It kinda makes the “ethical responsibility” feel more real, because even someone famous like Nobel couldn’t control how his invention was used. So I think this source fits really well with the book’s idea that inventors should think more about long-term consequences.

Говорится, что делегирование AI ключевых мыслительных задач (даже с последующим редактированием) подрывает развитие собственного критического мышления и креативности.

AI должен быть инструментом для совместной работы, а не заменой мыслительного процесса. Настоящее обучение происходит только при активной умственной работе, которую не может заменить простое копирование готового ответа.

Understanding HKII regulation in hypoxia might have implications for cancer metabolism, since tumors often experience hypoxic environments. Will the article explore this link?

Řady nůžkových stanů + the anchor is not active

Isso também pode ser utilizado como argumento do projeto.

eLife Assessment

This important study by Jeong and Choi studied neural activity in the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) while rats performed a foraging paradigm in which rats forage for rewards in the absence or presence of a threatening object (Lobsterbot). The authors present interesting observations suggesting that the mPFC population activity switches between distinct functional modes conveying distinct task variables- such as the distance to the reward location and types of threat-avoidance behaviors-depending on the location of the animal. The reviewers thought that the results are overall convincing, appreciated the value of studying neural coding in naturalistic settings, and felt that this work offers significant insights into how the mPFC operates during foraging behavior involving reward-threat conflict.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

In this study, Jeong and Choi examine neural correlates of behavior during a naturalistic foraging task in which rats must dynamically balance resource acquisition (foraging) with the risk of threat. Rats first learn to forage for sucrose reward from a spout, and when a threat is introduced (an attack-like movement from a "LobsterBot"), they adjust their behavior to continue foraging while balancing exposure to the threat, adopting anticipatory withdraw behaviors to avoid encounter with the LobsterBot. Using electrode recordings targeting the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC), they identify heterogenous encoding of task variables across prelimbic and infralimbic cortex neurons, including correlates of distance to the reward/threat zone and correlates of both anticipatory and reactionary avoidance behavior. Based on analysis of population responses, they show that prefrontal cortex switches between different regimes of population activity to process spatial information or behavioral responses to threat in a context-dependent manner. Characterization of the heterogenous coding scheme by which frontal cortex represents information in different goal states is an important contribution to our understanding of brain mechanisms underlying flexible behavior in ecological settings.

Strengths:

As many behavioral neuroscience studies employ highly controlled task designs, relatively less is generally known about how the brain organizes navigation and behavioral selection in naturalistic settings, where environment states and goals are more fluid. Here, the authors take advantage of a natural challenge faced by many animals - how to forage for resources in an unpredictable environment - to investigate neural correlates of behavior when goal states are dynamic. They investigate how prefrontal cortex (mPFC) activity is structured to support different functional "modes" (here, between a navigational mode and a threat-sensitive foraging mode) for flexible behavior. Overall, an important strength and real value of this study is the design of the behavioral experiment, which is trial-structured, permitting strong statistical methods for neural data analysis, yet still rich enough for unconstrained, natural behavior structured by the animal's volitional goals. The experiment is also phased to measure behavioral changes as animals first encounter a threat, and then learn to adapt their foraging strategy to its presence. Characterization of this adaptation process is itself quite interesting and sets a foundation for further study of threat learning and risk management in the foraging context. Finally, the characterization of single-neuron and population dynamics in mPFC in this naturalistic setting with fluid goal states is an important contribution to the field. Previous studies have identified neural correlates of spatial and behavioral variables in frontal cortex, but how these representations are structured, or how they are dynamically adjusted when animals shift their goals, has been less clear. The authors synthesize their main conclusions into a conceptual model for how mPFC could encode task variables in a context-dependent manner, and provide a useful framework for thinking about circuit-level mechanisms that may support mode switching.

Weaknesses:

The task design in this study is intentionally stimulus-rich and places minimal constraint on the animal to preserve naturalistic behavior, and this introduces some confounds that place some limits on the interpretability of neural responses. For example, some variables which are the target of neural correlation analysis, such as spatial/proximity coding and coding of threat and threat-related behaviors, are naturally entwined. In their revisions, the authors have included extensive analyses and control conditions to disambiguate these confounds. Within the limits of their task design, this provides compelling evidence that mPFC neurons encode threat, decision, and spatial information in a context-dependent manner. Future experiment designs, which intentionally separate task contexts (e.g. navigation vs. foraging), could serve to further clarify the structure of coding across contexts and/or goal states.

While the study provides an important advance in our understanding of mPFC coding structure under naturalistic conditions, the study still lacks functional manipulations to establish any form of causality. This limitation is acknowledged in the text, and the report is careful not to over interpret suggestions of causal contribution, instead setting a foundation for future investigations.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

Jeong & Choi (2023) use a semi-naturalistic paradigm to tackle the question of how the activity of neurons in the mPFC might continuously encode different functions. They offer two possibilities: either there are separate dedicated populations encoding each function, or cells alter their activity dependent on the current goal of the animal. In a threat-avoidance task rats procurred sucrose in an area of a chamber where, after remaining there for some amount of time, a 'Lobsterbot' robot attacked. In order to initiate the next trial rats had to move through the arena to another area before returning to the robot encounter zone. Therefore the task has two key components: threat avoidance and navigating through space. Recordings in the IL and PL of the mPFC revealed encoding that depended on what stage of the task the animal was currently engaged in. When animals were navigating, neuronal ensembles in these regions encoded distance from the threat. However, whilst animals were directly engaged with the threat and simultaneously consuming reward, it was possible to decode from a subset of the population whether animals would evade the threat. Therefore the authors claim that neurons in the mPFC switched between two functional modes: representing allocentric spatial information, and representing egocentric information pertaining to the reward and threat. Finally, the authors propose a conceptual model based on these data whereby this switching of population encoding is driven by either bottom-up sensory information or top-down arbitration.

Strengths:

Whilst these multiple functions of activity in the mPFC have generally been observed in tasks dedicated to the study of a singular function, less work has been done in contexts where animals continuously switch between different modes of behaviour in a more natural way. Being able to assess whether previous findings of mPFC function apply in natural contexts is very valuable to the field, even outside of those interested in the mPFC directly. This also speaks to the novelty of the work; although mixed selectivity encoding of threat assessment and action selection has been demonstrated in some contexts (e.g. Grunfeld & Likhtik, 2018) understanding the way in which encoding changes on-the-fly in a self-paced task is valuable both for verifying whether current understanding holds true and for extending our models of functional coding in the mPFC.

The authors are also generally thoughtful in their analyses and use a variety of approaches to probe the information encoded in the recorded activity. In particular, they use relatively close analysis of behaviour as well as manipulating the task itself by removing the threat to verify their own results. The use of such a rich task also allows them to draw comparisons, e.g. in different zones of the arena or different types of responses to threat, that a more reduced task would not otherwise allow. Additional in-depth analyses in the updated version of the manuscript, particularly the feature importance analysis, as well as complimentary null findings (a lack of cohesive place cell encoding, and no difference in location coding dependent on direction of trajectory) further support the authors' conclusion that populations of cells in the mPFC are switching their functional coding based on task context rather than behaviour per se. Finally, the authors' updated model schematic proposes an intriguing and testable implementation of how this encoding switch may be manifested by looking at differentiable inputs to these populations.

Weaknesses:

The main existing weakness of this study is that its findings are correlational (as the authors highlight in the discussion). Future work might aim to verify and expand the authors' findings - for example, whether the elevated response of Type 2 neurons directly contributes to the decision-making process or just represents fear/anxiety motivation/threat level - through direct physiological manipulation. However, I appreciate the challenges of interpreting data even in the presence of such manipulations and some of the additional analyses of behaviour, for example the stability of animals' inter-lick intervals in the E-zone, go some way towards ruling out alternative behavioural explanations. Yet the most ideal version of this analysis is to use a pose estimation method such as DeepLabCut to more fully measure behavioural changes. This, in combination with direct physiological manipulation, would allow the authors to fully validate that the switching of encoding by this population of neurons in the mPFC has the functional attributes as claimed here.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

This study investigates how various behavioral features are represented in the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) of rats engaged in a naturalistic foraging task. The authors recorded electrophysiological responses of individual neurons as animals transitioned between navigation, reward consumption, avoidance, and escape behaviors. Employing a range of computational and statistical methods, including artificial neural networks, dimensionality reduction, hierarchical clustering, and Bayesian classifiers, the authors sought to predict from neural activity distinct task variables (such as distance from the reward zone and the success or failure of avoidance behavior). The findings suggest that mPFC neurons alternate between at least two distinct functional modes, namely spatial encoding and threat evaluation, contingent on the specific location.

Strengths:

This study attempt to address an important question: understanding the role of mPFC across multiple dynamic behaviors. The authors highlight the diverse roles attributed to mPFC in previous literature and seek to explain this apparent heterogeneity. They designed an ethologically relevant foraging task that facilitated the examination of complex dynamic behavior, collecting comprehensive behavioral and neural data. The analyses conducted are both sound and rigorous.

Weaknesses:

Because the study still lacks experimental manipulation, the findings remain correlational. The authors have appropriately tempered their claims regarding the functional role of the mPFC in the task. The nature of the switch between functional modes encoding distinct task variables (i.e., distance to reward, and threat-avoidance behavior type) is not established. Moreover, the evidence presented to dissociate movement from these task variables is not fully convincing, particularly without single-session video analysis of movement. Specifically, while the new analyses in Figure 7 are informative, they may not fully account for all potential confounding variables arising from changes in context or behavior.

Comments on revisions:

The authors have addressed my previous recommendations.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

In this study, Jeong and Choi examine neural correlates of behavior during a naturalistic foraging task in which rats must dynamically balance resource acquisition (foraging) with the risk of threat. Rats first learn to forage for sucrose reward from a spout, and when a threat is introduced (an attack-like movement from a "LobsterBot"), they adjust their behavior to continue foraging while balancing exposure to the threat, adopting anticipatory withdraw behaviors to avoid encounter with the LobsterBot. Using electrode recordings targeting the medial prefrontal cortex (PFC), they identify heterogenous encoding of task variables across prelimbic and infralimbic cortex neurons, including correlates of distance to the reward/threat zone and correlates of both anticipatory and reactionary avoidance behavior. Based on analysis of population responses, they show that prefrontal cortex switches between different regimes of population activity to process spatial information or behavioral responses to threat in a context-dependent manner. Characterization of the heterogenous coding scheme by which frontal cortex represents information in different goal states is an important contribution to our understanding of brain mechanisms underlying flexible behavior in ecological settings.

Strengths:

As many behavioral neuroscience studies employ highly controlled task designs, relatively less is generally known about how the brain organizes navigation and behavioral selection in naturalistic settings, where environment states and goals are more fluid. Here, the authors take advantage of a natural challenge faced by many animals - how to forage for resources in an unpredictable environment - to investigate neural correlates of behavior when goal states are dynamic. Related to his, they also investigate prefrontal cortex (PFC) activity is structured to support different functional "modes" (here, between a navigational mode and a threat-sensitive foraging mode) for flexible behavior. Overall, an important strength and real value of this study is the design of the behavioral experiment, which is trial-structured, permitting strong statistical methods for neural data analysis, yet still rich enough to encourage natural behavior structured by the animal's volitional goals. The experiment is also phased to measure behavioral changes as animals first encounter a threat, and then learn to adapt their foraging strategy to its presence. Characterization of this adaptation process is itself quite interesting and sets a foundation for further study of threat learning and risk management in the foraging context. Finally, the characterization of single-neuron and population dynamics in PFC in this naturalistic setting with fluid goal states is an important contribution to the field. Previous studies have identified neural correlates of spatial and behavioral variables in frontal cortex, but how these representations are structured, or how they are dynamically adjusted when animals shift their goals, has been less clear. The authors synthesize their main conclusions into a conceptual model for how PFC activity can support mode switching, which can be tested in future studies with other task designed and functional manipulations.

Weaknesses:

While the task design in this study is intentionally stimulus-rich and places minimal constraint on the animal to preserve naturalistic behavior, this also introduces confounds that limit interpretability of the neural analysis. For example, some variables which are the target of neural correlation analysis, such as spatial/proximity coding and coding of threat and threat-related behaviors, are naturally entwined. To their credit, the authors have included careful analyses and control conditions to disambiguate these variables and significantly improve clarity.

The authors also claim that the heterogenous coding of spatial and behavioral variables in PFC is structured in a particular way that depends on the animal's goals or context. As the authors themselves discuss, the different "zones" contain distinct behaviors and stimuli, and since some neurons are modulated by these events (e.g., licking sucrose water, withdrawing from the LobsterBot, etc.), differences in population activity may to some extent reflect behavior/event coding. The authors have included a control analysis, removing timepoints corresponding to salient events, to substantiate the claim that PFC neurons switch between different coding "modes." While this significantly strengthens evidence for their conclusion, this analysis still depends on relatively coarse labeling of only very salient events. Future experiment designs, which intentionally separate task contexts (e.g. navigation vs. foraging), could serve to further clarify the structure of coding across contexts and/or goal states.

Finally, while the study includes many careful, in-depth neural and behavioral analyses to support the notion that modal coding of task variables in PFC may play a role in organizing flexible, dynamic behavior, the study still lacks functional manipulations to establish any form of causality. This limitation is acknowledged in the text, and the report is careful not to over interpret suggestions of causal contribution, instead setting a foundation for future investigations.

Thank you for the positive comment. We also acknowledge the inherent drawbacks of studying naturalistic behavior. As you also mentioned in the second round of review, separating navigation and foraging tasks in a larger apparatus, such as the one illustrated below, could better distinguish neural activity patterns associated with these different task types. To address the limitations of the current study, we have revised the report to avoid overinterpretation or unwarranted assumptions, and we appreciate that you have recognized this effort.

Author response image 1.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

Jeong & Choi (2023) use a semi-naturalistic paradigm to tackle the question of how the activity of neurons in the mPFC might continuously encode different functions. They offer two possibilities: either there are separate dedicated populations encoding each function, or cells alter their activity dependent on the current goal of the animal. In a threat-avoidance task rats procurred sucrose in an area of a chamber where, after remaining there for some amount of time, a 'Lobsterbot' robot attacked. In order to initiate the next trial rats had to move through the arena to another area before returning to the robot encounter zone. Therefore the task has two key components: threat avoidance and navigating through space. Recordings in the IL and PL of the mPFC revealed encoding that depended on what stage of the task the animal was currently engaged in. When animals were navigating, neuronal ensembles in these regions encoded distance from the threat. However, whilst animals were directly engaged with the threat and simultaneously consuming reward, it was possible to decode from a subset of the population whether animals would evade the threat. Therefore the authors claim that neurons in the mPFC switched between two functional modes: representing allocentric spatial information, and representing egocentric information pertaining to the reward and threat. Finally, the authors propose a conceptual model based on these data whereby this switching of population encoding is driven by either bottom-up sensory information or top-down arbitration.

Strengths:

Whilst these multiple functions of activity in the mPFC have generally been observed in tasks dedicated to the study of a singular function, less work has been done in contexts where animals continuously switch between different modes of behaviour in a more natural way. Being able to assess whether previous findings of mPFC function apply in natural contexts is very valuable to the field, even outside of those interested in the mPFC directly. This also speaks to the novelty of the work; although mixed selectivity encoding of threat assessment and action selection has been demonstrated in some contexts (e.g. Grunfeld & Likhtik, 2018) understanding the way in which encoding changes on-the-fly in a self-paced task is valuable both for verifying whether current understanding holds true and for extending our models of functional coding in the mPFC.

The authors are also generally thoughtful in their analyses and use a variety of approaches to probe the information encoded in the recorded activity. In particular, they use relatively close analysis of behaviour as well as manipulating the task itself by removing the threat to verify their own results. The use of such a rich task also allows them to draw comparisons, e.g. in different zones of the arena or different types of responses to threat, that a more reduced task would not otherwise allow. Additional in-depth analyses in the updated version of the manuscript, particularly the feature importance analysis, as well as complimentary null findings (a lack of cohesive place cell encoding, and no difference in location coding dependent on direction of trajectory) further support the authors' conclusion that populations of cells in the mPFC are switching their functional coding based on task context rather than behaviour per se. Finally, the authors' updated model schematic proposes an intriguing and testable implementation of how this encoding switch may be manifested by looking at differentiable inputs to these populations.

Weaknesses:

The main existing weakness of this study is that its findings are correlational (as the authors highlight in the discussion). Future work might aim to verify and expand the authors' findings - for example, whether the elevated response of Type 2 neurons directly contributes to the decision-making process or just represents fear/anxiety motivation/threat level - through direct physiological manipulation. However, I appreciate the challenges of interpreting data even in the presence of such manipulations and some of the additional analyses of behaviour, for example the stability of animals' inter-lick intervals in the E-zone, go some way towards ruling out alternative behavioural explanations. Yet the most ideal version of this analysis is to use a pose estimation method such as DeepLabCut to more fully measure behavioural changes. This, in combination with direct physiological manipulation, would allow the authors to fully validate that the switching of encoding by this population of neurons in the mPFC has the functional attributes as claimed here.

I wanted to add a minor comment about interpreting the two possible accounts presented in fig. 8 to suggest a third possibility: that both bottom-up sensory and top-down arbitration mechanisms can occur simultaneously to influence whether the activity of the population switches. Indeed, a model where these inputs are balanced or pitted against each other, so to speak, to continuously modulate encoding in the mPFC seems both adaptive and likely. Further, some speculation on the source of the 'arbitrator' in the top-down account would make this model more tractable for future testing of its validity.

We thank the reviewer for highlighting this important perspective. We fully agree that an intricate and recurrent interaction between bottom-up and top-down modulations is a highly plausible account of how the mPFC changes its encoding mode. In line with this suggestion, we have incorporated this idea as a third possibility in the revised Discussion, alongside an updated version of Figure 8 that explicitly illustrates this competitive model.

Although we were unable to identify a definitive study directly measuring how the mPFC switches encoding modes across tasks, we did find relevant human EEG and fMRI studies addressing this issue. Based on these findings, we now propose the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) as a potential hub for top-down arbitration. We have added a paragraph in the Discussion describing this possibility and its implications for future testing.

“Which brain region might act as this arbitrator? Evidence from human neuroimaging studies implicates the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) as a central hub for switching cognitive modes. During task switching, the ACC shows increased activation (Hyafil et al., 2009), enhances connectivity with task-specific regions (Aben et al., 2020), correlates with multitask performance (Kondo et al., 2004), and monitors the reliability of competing decision systems (Lee et al., 2014). Collectively, these findings point to a pivotal role for the ACC in coordinating task assignment. Rodent studies also link the ACC to strategic mode switching (Tervo et al., 2014), suggesting that the rodent ACC could similarly arbitrate between strategies, determining which task-relevant variables are represented in the ventral mPFC, including the PL and IL. Future studies combining multi-context tasks with causal manipulations will be essential to determine whether these functional shifts are driven primarily by top-down arbitration or by bottom-up sensory inputs.”

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

This study investigates how various behavioral features are represented in the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) of rats engaged in a naturalistic foraging task. The authors recorded electrophysiological responses of individual neurons as animals transitioned between navigation, reward consumption, avoidance, and escape behaviors. Employing a range of computational and statistical methods, including artificial neural networks, dimensionality reduction, hierarchical clustering, and Bayesian classifiers, the authors sought to predict from neural activity distinct task variables (such as distance from the reward zone and the success or failure of avoidance behavior). The findings suggest that mPFC neurons alternate between at least two distinct functional modes, namely spatial encoding and threat evaluation, contingent on the specific location.

Strengths:

This study attempt to address an important question: understanding the role of mPFC across multiple dynamic behaviors. The authors highlight the diverse roles attributed to mPFC in previous literature and seek to explain this apparent heterogeneity. They designed an ethologically relevant foraging task that facilitated the examination of complex dynamic behavior, collecting comprehensive behavioral and neural data. The analyses conducted are both sound and rigorous.

Weaknesses:

Because the study still lacks experimental manipulation, the findings remain correlational. The authors have appropriately tempered their claims regarding the functional role of the mPFC in the task. The nature of the switch between functional modes encoding distinct task variables (i.e., distance to reward, and threat-avoidance behavior type) is not established. Moreover, the evidence presented to dissociate movement from these task variables is not fully convincing, particularly without single-session video analysis of movement. Specifically, while the new analyses in Figure 7 are informative, they may not fully account for all potential confounding variables arising from changes in context or behavior.

Regarding the claim of highly stereotyped behavior, there are some inconsistencies. While the authors assert this, Figure 1F shows inter-animal variability, and the PETHs, representing averaged activity, may not fully capture the variability of the behavior across sessions and animals. To strengthen this aspect, a more detailed analysis that examines the relationship between behavior and neural activity on a trial-by-trial basis, or at minimum, per session, could help.

We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful recommendation and the opportunity to clarify our use of the term “stereotyped behavior.” By this, we were specifically referring to the animals’ consistent licking behavior in the E-zone, rather than to the latency of head withdrawal, which indeed varied across trials and animals. Because licking tempo and body posture during sucrose consumption were highly consistent, the decision to avoid or stay (AW vs. EW) could not be predicted from overt behavior alone. This consistency strengthens our conclusion that the significant predictive power of the Bayesian decoding analysis reflects intrinsic firing patterns of the mPFC neural network, rather than simple behavioral correlates of avoidance.

We also note that the Bayesian model was conducted on a trial-by-trial basis, and the reported prediction accuracy of 73% represents the average across all individual trials (Figure 6B, C). Thus, the analysis inherently captures variability across trials and animals, directly addressing the reviewer’s concern.

The reviewer is correct that the PETHs shown in Figure 5 are based on session-averaged activity aligned to head-entry and head-withdrawal events. The purpose of this analysis was to illustrate that certain modulation patterns could be grouped into 2–3 distinct categories. While averaged activity can provide insight into collective responses to external events, we agree that trial-based analyses provide a more rigorous demonstration of the link between neural ensemble activity and behavioral decisions. This is precisely why we complemented the PETH analysis with Bayesian decoding, which provides stronger evidence that mPFC ensemble activity is predictive of the animal’s choice to avoid or stay.

Similarly, the claim regarding the limited scope of extraneous behavior (beyond licking) requires further substantiation. It would be more convincing to quantify potential variations in licking vigor and to provide evidence for the absence of significant postural changes.

To address this concern, we quantified licking vigor using the inter-lick interval (ILI) as an indirect index. A lick was defined as the period from tongue contact with the IR beam (Lick-On) to withdrawal (Lick-Off), and the ILI was calculated as the time between a Lick-Off and the subsequent Lick-On. Across all animals, ILIs were clustered within a narrow range with a median of 0.155 s (see Author response image 4, left panel).

We analyzed licking vigor at two levels: within trials and within sessions. Because reduced vigor or satiation would lengthen ILIs, comparing the first half and the last half of ILIs within a trial or within a session provides a sensitive proxy for licking consistency.

Within trials: For each of 2,820 trials, we compared the mean ILI of the first half of licks to that of the second half. The average difference was only ~ 17 ms (middle panel). Across sessions: Trial-averaged ILIs were compared between the first and last halves of each session, yielding a mean difference ~ 1.7 ms per session (right panel).

These analyses demonstrate that rats maintained stable licking vigor whenever they entered the E-zone, regardless of avoidance outcome.

Author response image 2.

Concerning the ANN model, while I understand the choice of a 4-layer network for its performance, the study could have benefited from exploring simpler models. A model where weight corresponds directly to individual neurons could improve interpretability and facilitate the investigation of dynamic changes in neuronal 'modes' (i.e., weight adjustments) over time.

We fully agree with the reviewer on the importance of biologically interpretable models. While artificial neural networks (ANNs) share certain similarities with neural computation, they are not intended to capture biological realism. For example, the error correction mechanism used in ANNs, such as backpropagation has no direct counterpart in mammalian neural circuits. Although we considered approaches that would link each computational node more directly to the activity of individual neurons, building such a model would require temporally sensitive, mechanistic frameworks (e.g., leaky integrate-and-fire networks) and an extensive behavioral alignment effort, which is beyond the scope of the current study.

Our use of an ANN was intended solely as an analytical tool to uncover hidden patterns in multi-unit activity that may not be detectable with traditional methods. Among various machine-learning algorithms, we selected a four-layer ANN regressor because it achieved significantly lower decoding errors (Supplementary Figure S3) and showed robustness to hyperparameter variation (Glaser et al., 2020). To acknowledge the limitations of this approach and suggest future directions, we have revised the Results section to explicitly discuss these points.

“Among various machine learning algorithms, we selected a robust tool for decoding underlying patterns in the data, rather than to model the architecture of the mPFC. We implemented a four-layer artificial neural network regressor (ANN; see Materials and Methods for a detailed structure), as the ANN achieves significantly lower decoding errors (Supplementary Figure S3) and has robustness to hyperparameter changes (Glaser et al., 2020).”

Sure, sure... but, where are the references and how is this related to the article? I mean, I get the capitalist criticism, but this is vague and unexhaustive. Why import workers when you can outsource production and emissions as a whole, in less regulated places?

But that's terrible, don't you see! It leads to the generalisation that any journalist is untransparent, and that their reporting is missguided. How can watchdog independent journalism survive like this when it is tagged of ad-hoc political targetting?

Can you engage in activism, in farming, in policy reunions, teaching, cleaning, or other volunteering? No, you but you can go to shops of any kind!

This is a classical decoy that has just recently reversed!

But you know what will happen right? This is anecdotal, often optional content, and its subtext goes unoticed for the main attraction which is actually following a materialist gaze: Guns, cars, mansions, designer clothes, prostitutes, riches of any kinds: Luxury, and being above law because you are an oligarch.

Learn how to pass data in Swift, from view controller to view controller, view-to-view (UIKit), or using @State, @Binding, @ObservedObject, @EnvironmentObject in SwiftUI. This step-by-step tutorial covers forwarding data, callbacks, delegates, singletons, NotificationCenter, UserDefaults, and more so you can choose the right method for your architecture.

https://web.archive.org/web/20251204120021/https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/resources/human-rights/2025-october/lost-art-organizing-civic-groups/

via [[Chris Corrigan]]

civic organisation as a skillset is disappearing in the US but is a key building block of functioning democracies. Vgl #netag

https://web.archive.org/web/20251204115812/https://mickryan.substack.com/p/ukraines-2025-strategic-endeavours

Mick Ryan compares his early 2025 notes with how this year went in Ukraine's war against the Russian fullscale invasion of 2022. Paywalled.

[[Elja Daae]] recommended reading list wrt AI [[Weapons of Math Destruction by Cathy O Neil]] (have it since 2017) [[Code Dependent by Madhumita Murgia]] bought it in August in ramsj [[The Digital Republic by Jamie Susskind]] I noted in 2024 as possible reading. [[Atlas van de digitale wereld by Haroon Sheikh]] I have too Other's are unknown to me. Interesting list, as it shaped their view on their role in AI public policy I presume

[[The Digital Republic by Jamie Susskind]], already jotted down the title [[Daglog 29-10-2024]] at Dussmann's in Berlin, 2023 book. [[Elja Daae]] recommends it in this list. - [ ] check for review / summary [[The Digital Republic by Jamie Susskind]] #digitalpolicy #reading

Action Comics #858-863

[[The Digital Republic by Jamie Susskind]] author is UK law/ currently in USA it seems (Berkman)

eLife Assessment

This important study investigates nerve-injury-induced allodynia by studying the role of a subpopulation of excitatory dorsal horn CCK+ neurons that express the estrogen receptor GPR30 and potentially modulate nociceptive sensitivity via direct inputs from primary somatosensory cortex. In this revised version, the authors addressed many of the critiques raised through added analyses that convincingly support the notion that spinal GPR30 neurons are indeed an excitatory subpopulation of CCK+ neurons that contribute to neuropathic pain. While evidence of a direct functional corticospinal projection to CCK+/GPR30+neurons is not fully demonstrated, this work will be of broad interest to researchers interested in the neural circuitry of pain.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

In this manuscript, Chen et al. investigate the role of the membrane estrogen receptor GPR30 in spinal mechanisms of neuropathic pain. Using a wide variety of techniques, they first provide convincing evidence that GPR30 expression is restricted to neurons within the spinal cord, and that GPR30 neurons are well-positioned to receive descending input from the primary sensory cortex (S1). In addition, the authors put their findings in the context the previous knowledge in the field, presenting evidence demonstrating that GRP30 is expressed in the majority of CCK-expressing spinal neurons. Overall, this manuscript furthers our understanding of neural circuity that underlies neuropathic pain and will be of broad interest to neuroscientists, especially those interested in somatosensation. Nevertheless, the manuscript would be strengthened by additional analyses and clarification of data that is currently presented.

Strengths:

The authors present convincing evidence for expression of GPR30 in the spinal cord that is specific to spinal neurons. Similarly, complementary approaches including pharmacological inhibition and knockdown of GPR30 are used to demonstrate a role for the receptor in driving nerve injury-induced pain in rodent models.

Weaknesses:

Although steps were taken to put their data into the broader context of what is already known about the spinal circuitry of pain, more considerations and analyses would help the authors better achieve their goal. For instance, to determine whether GPR30 is expressed in excitatory or inhibitory neurons, more selective markers for these subtypes should be used over CamK2. Moreover, quantitative analysis of the extent of overlap between GPR30+ and CCK+ spinal neurons is needed to understand the potential heterogeneity of the GPR30 spinal neuron population, and to interpret experiments characterizing descending SI inputs onto GPR30 and CCK spinal neurons. Filling these gaps in knowledge would make their findings more solid.

Revised Manuscript Update:

In their revised manuscript, Chen et al. have added additional data that establishes GPR30 spinal neurons as a population of excitatory neurons, half of which express CCK. These data help to position GPR30 neurons in the existing framework of spinal neuron populations that contribute to neuropathic pain, strengthening the author's findings.

I have no new recommendations to the author's following this round of revisions.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

The authors convincingly demonstrate that a population of CCK+ spinal neurons in the deep dorsal horn express the G protein coupled estrogen receptor GPR30 to modulate pain sensitivity in the chronic constriction injury (CCI) model of neuropathic pain in mice. Using complementary pharmacological and genetic knockdown experiments they convincingly show that GPR30 inhibition or knockdown reverses mechanical, tactile and thermal hypersensitivity, conditioned place aversion, and c-fos staining in the spinal dorsal horn after CCI. They propose that GPR30 mediates an increase in postsynaptic AMPA receptors after CCI using slice electrophysiology which may underlie the increased behavioral sensitivity. They then use anterograde tracing approaches to show that CCK and GPR30 positive neurons in the deep dorsal horn may receive direct connections from primary somatosensory cortex. Chemogenetic activation of these dorsal horn neurons proposed to be connected to S1 increased nociceptive sensitivity in a GPR30 dependent manner. Overall, the data are very convincing and the experiments are well conducted and adequately controlled. The potential role of direct connections from S1 for descending modulation of pain and the endogenous mechanism(s) activating GPR30 will be interesting to test in future studies.

Strengths:

The experiments are very well executed and adequately controlled throughout the manuscript. The data are nicely presented and supportive of a role for GPR30 signaling in the spinal dorsal horn influencing nociceptive sensitivity following CCI. The authors also did an excellent job of using complementary approaches to rigorously test their hypothesis.

Weaknesses:

While the viral tracing demonstrates a potential connection between S1 and CCK+ or GPR30+ spinal neurons, no direct evidence is provided for S1 in facilitating any activity of these neurons in the dorsal horn.

Comments on the latest version:

The authors have done a good job addressing previous critiques and have appropriately revised the manuscript and conclusions.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

In their revised manuscript, Chen et al. have added additional data that establishes GPR30 spinal neurons as a population of excitatory neurons, half of which express CCK. These data help to position GPR30 neurons in the existing framework of spinal neuron populations that contribute to neuropathic pain, strengthening the author's findings.

Thank you very much for your positive feedback and for recognizing the value of our additional data.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

The authors did an excellent job addressing many of the critiques raised. Despite acknowledging that a direct functional corticospinal projection to CCK/GPR30+neurons is not supported by the data and revising the title, these claims still persist throughout the manuscript. Manipulating gene expression or the activity of postsynaptic neurons through a trans-synaptic labeling strategy does not directly support any claim that those upstream neurons are directly modulating spinal neurons through the proposed pathway. Indeed they might, but that is not demonstrated here.

We sincerely thank the reviewer for this critical insight. We fully agree that our trans-synaptic approach does not provide a direct functional connection. In response, we have revised the manuscript to remove any overstated claims of "direct" modulation and instead emphasize the critical role of spinal GPR30+ neurons. Moreover, we have added a statement in the Discussion to acknowledge this limitation and to highlight that the precise function role of this connection requires further investigation in further studies.

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

I recommend 2 minor corrections to the text and figures

(1)  Line 131 : "What's more, near-universal CCK+ neurons were co-localized with GPR30 (Fig 2F and G)."

The additional quantification of the overlap between GPR30 and tdTomato provided by the authors is useful, but there are inconsistencies with how the data are reported in the figures and text, making them difficult to interpret. 2F supports the author's conclusion that approximately 90% of CCK⁺ neurons express GPR30, and about 50% of GPR30⁺ neurons co-express CCK. However, the x-axis labels in 2G appear to have been switched, and suggest that the opposite is true (i.e., most GRPR neurons are CCK+, while only 50% of CCK neurons are GPR30+). Please clarify which is correct throughout the results and discussion sections.

Thank you for identifying this important error. We apologized for the confusion caused by the mislabeled x-axis in Fig. 2G. The x-axis labels were indeed inadvertently switched. The correct data is that approximately 90% of CCK⁺ neurons express GPR30. We have corrected the figure and have carefully reviewed the entire manuscript to ensure all related descriptions and discussions are consistent with the accurate quantification.

(2) The following sentence describing Figure 5 was hard to follow: Lines 190-192, "Consistent with prior observations, we found that these SDH downstream neurons exhibited colocalization with CCK+ neurons, with 28.1% of mCherry+ neurons expressing CCK (Fig 5I and J)." Since the authors are describing a common population of neurons, a statement describing the coexpression (rather than the colocalization" would more simply summarize their data.

We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We fully agree that "coexpression" is a more precise term for the description. We have revised the sentence on Lines 189-190 to read: "Consistent with prior observations, we found that 28.1% of mCherry+ S1-SDH downstream neurons coexpressed CCK (Fig 5I and J)."

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

Additional Recommendations

The authors did a commendable job revising the manuscript text to improve readability; however, several informal phrases from the original version still persist, or were added (e.g. "by the way").

We thank the reviewer for this valuable feedback regarding the language. We have conducted a line-by-line review of the entire manuscript to identify all remaining informal phrases, and replaced them with more appropriate phrasing.

It should be clearly mentioned that spontaneous E/IPSCs were recorded in Figure 4 and Fig S5.

We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We have now clearly indicated the spontaneous E/IPSCs in Fig. 4 and Fig. S5 and manuscript.

The rationale for recording EPSCs from GFP-labeled CCK+ neurons because "a significant proportion of spinal CCK+ neurons form excitatory synapses with upstream neurons" does not make any sense. Do the authors instead mean that CCK neurons receive excitatory inputs from other spinal neurons and intend to test if those synaptic connections are modulated by GPR30?

We thank the reviewer for this critical correction. Our intended meaning was indeed that CCK⁺ neurons receive excitatory inputs from other neurons, and we aimed to test whether those synaptic connections are modulated by GPR30. To avoid confusion, we have revised the manuscript to remove the erroneous statement “Since CCK+ neurons mainly receive excitatory synaptic inputs from upstream neurons, we then intended to test whether GPR30 modulated these synaptic connections.”

I am confused by the statement on Page 8 "to examine whether GPCR30-mediated EPSCs depend on AMPA mediated currents." Given that sEPSCs were recorded at -70 mV in low Cl internal I'm not sure what other glutamate receptor would be involved. Perhaps the intention was to more directly test whether GPR30 activation acutely modulates AMPAR-mediated EPSCs? However, as the authors acknowledged, this experiment does not necessarily support a solely post-synaptic AMPAR-dependent mechanism.

We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment and apologize for the lack of clarity. Our intention was indeed to test whether GPR30 activation modulates AMPAR-mediated currents. We have revised the text. In addition, we also emphasize in the Discussion that our data did not rule out the potential pre-synaptic contributions to this effect.

An elevation in EPSCs within a cell does not necessarily mean that the cell is more excitable, only that it is receiving more excitatory inputs or has an increase in synaptic receptors. The cell may scale down its activity to compensate for this increase. I recommend only drawing conclusions from what the experiments actually tested.

We thank the reviewer for this crucial clarification. We have revised the manuscript to remove any claims that the cells were "more excitable". Our conclusions now strictly focus on the specific findings that GPR30 activation enhanced the excitatory transmission onto CCK⁺ neurons.

See I found this funny when I read it but it is also realistic. If a student is not feeling represented or motivated than it is going to be difficult for them to want to show up. This is connected to the readings on YPAR because how can we expect students to show interest and care about their education when they don't feel like others do that for them?

This line reframes the issue away from individual ability and toward structural barriers. It makes it clear that college-going gaps are not just about motivation or “working harder”, but about unequal access to guidance counselors, rigorous coursework, funding, and supportive school environments. This line makes me think about equity in a more systemic way as well as challenges the assumption that all students are starting from the same place.

Educators dedicate a lot of time to their students. It's important o recognize the work and dedication they put into their profession. Teachers are in fact the backbone of the country. Without them we wouldn't have the success that we do, in terms of individuals. While there is still a lot of work to do, educators have made sure that students can learn and continue to different professions where they too can make an impact in peoples lives.

I remember in elementary school a few of my teachers would share a bit about their life. How they grew up, their school experiences, etc. which always made me more comfortable in the classroom. What I enjoyed most was when teachers shared about their experiences and realized they were similar to mine. It gave me hope that I too could follow in similar footsteps despite barriers. Often times students give up because they think things are impossible. It is only when they hear that someone like them was capable of success that they are inspired to do the same.

As a student, it think this will be one of the biggest challenged and pushbacks we see from students. A lot of students prefer to do group work with their friends or other classmates who they are already acquainted with. While placing them into groups would be the most affective way of creating a group with diverse experiences, it is possible many students will be unwilling to work with one another, or in the worse case group participation will be minimal. To combat this it's important to have a classroom where all students are comfortable with one another.

I think one of the biggest issues that comes from implementing multicultural education is how educators themselves will be able to implement it for the first time. All teachers would have to go through training to learn how to properly educate their students to such standards. I think it wont be until those students who fist participate in multicultural education that we will be able to recognize the differences that have been achieved.

I think this is the most important part. Of course not everyone will want to pursue a higher education. But, everyone should have the ability to do so if so they choose. No one should be disadvantaged when it comes to choosing their future plans. Multicultural education is not about pushing everyone toward higher education, it's about providing students with the necessary education and resources to do so if they so plan. This is something that must be acknowledged for multicultural education to succeed. If a student decides they don't want to continue their education that does not mean the education system failed them. Students should have the ability to choose given they are properly informed of all their options.

A lot ofHispanic students specifically tend to be first-generation students and dont have someone to guide them towards higher education. Because of this many results to the work field or other avenues instead of continuing their education. Like within the hispanic community, each community face their own challenges which make it difficult to access higher education.

eLife Assessment

Cryptovaranoides, a Late Triassic animal (some 230 Ma old), was originally described as a possibly anguimorph squamate, i.e., more closely related to snakes and some extant lizards than to other extant lizards, making Squamata much older than previously thought and providing a new calibration date inside it. Following a rebuttal and a defense, this fourth important contribution to the debate makes a convincing argument that Cryptovaranoides is not a squamate. Further comparisons to potentially closely related animals such as early lepidosauromorphs would greatly benefit this study, and parts of the text require clarification.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

In the Late Triassic (around 230 Ma ago), southern Wales and adjacent parts of England were a karst landscape. The caves and crevices accumulated remains of small vertebrates. These fossil-rich fissure fills are being exposed in limestone quarrying. In 2022 (reference 13 of the article), a partial articulated skeleton and numerous isolated bones from one fissure fill were named Cryptovaranoides microlanius and described as the oldest known squamate - the oldest known animal, by some 50 Ma, that is more closely related to snakes and some extant lizards than to other extant lizards. This would have considerable consequences for our understanding of the evolution of squamates and their closest relatives, especially for its speed and absolute timing, and was supported in the same paper by phylogenetic analyses based on different datasets.

In 2023, the present authors published a rebuttal (ref. 18) to the 2022 paper, challenging anatomical interpretations and the irreproducible referral of some of the isolated bones to Cryptovaranoides. Modifying the datasets accordingly, they found Cryptovaranoides outside Squamata and presented evidence that it is far outside. In 2024 (ref. 19), the original authors defended most of their original interpretation and presented some new data, some of it from newly referred isolated bones. The present article discusses anatomical features and the referral of isolated bones in more detail, documents some clear misinterpretations, argues against the widespread but not justifiable practice of referring isolated bones to the same species as long as there is merely no known evidence to the contrary, further argues against comparing newly recognized fossils to lists of diagnostic characters from the literature as opposed to performing phylogenetic analyses and interpreting the results, and finds Cryptovaranoides outside Squamata again.

Although a few of the character discussions can probably still be improved, I see no sign that the discussion is going in circles or otherwise becoming unproductive. I can even imagine that the present contribution will end it.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Congratulations on this revised manuscript on the phylogenetic affinities of Cryptovaranoides, and thank you for your modifications to this manuscript following review.

This manuscript offers a careful review of the features used to hypothesize the placement of Cryptovaranoides within crown Squamata and instead suggests that this taxon represents an earlier-diverging reptile. This work therefore reconciles morphological and molecular data regarding lizard origins, which is an important contribution to the field of vertebrate paleontology.

The authors have improved their manuscript following reviewer comments and now provide more thorough comparisons with other early reptiles and archosauromorphs, an improvement over early versions of this paper. Changes to these comparative descriptions provide important rationale concerning the absence of superficially squamate-like features in Cryptovaranoides.

The evolutionary relationships of Cryptovaranoides among reptiles will certainly be a matter of debate until detailed anatomical descriptions of this taxon and other putative lepidosauromorphs are published. However, it can now be said with confidence that the presence of any crown squamate in the Permian or Triassic is unlikely and should be met with skepticism, the same sort of skepticism provided in this manuscript.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

The study provides an interesting contribution to our understanding of Cryptovaranoides relationships, which is a matter of intensive debate among researchers. The authors have modified the manuscript according to most of my suggestions. My main concerns are about the wording of some statements but the authors have the right to put it as they want in the end. Overall the discussion and data are well prepared. I would recommend to publish the manuscript after very minor revisions.

Strengths:

Detailed analysis of the discussed characters. Illustrations of some comparative materials.

Weaknesses:

Abstract: "Our team challenged this identification and instead suggested †Cryptovaranoides had unclear affinities to living reptiles"

Unfortunately I have to disagree again. "unclear affinities to living reptiles" can mean anything including a crown lizard. First, the 2023 paper clearly rejected the squamate hypothesis and presented some evidence that potentially places Cryptovaranoides among Archosauromorpha. In this context "unclear where it would belong within the latter" does not really matter. Second, we are not discussing here if Cryptovaranoides is a squamate or a stem-squamate. We have many more options on the table, so "unclear affinities" is too imprecise. Please change it to "could be an archosauromorph or an indeterminate neodiapsid" in the abstract to show the scale of conflicting evidence.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

In the Late Triassic and Early Jurassic (around 230 to 180 Ma ago), southern Wales and adjacent parts of England were a karst landscape. The caves and crevices accumulated remains of small vertebrates. These fossil-rich fissure fills are being exposed in limestone quarrying. In 2022 (reference 13 of the article), a partial articulated skeleton and numerous isolated bones from one fissure fill of end-Triassic age (just over 200 Ma) were named Cryptovaranoides microlanius and described as the oldest known squamate - the oldest known animal, by some 20 to 30 Ma, that is more closely related to snakes and some extant lizards than to other extant lizards. This would have considerable consequences for our understanding of the evolution of squamates and their closest relatives, especially for their speed and absolute timing, and was supported in the same paper by phylogenetic analyses based on different datasets.

In 2023, the present authors published a rebuttal (reference 18) to the 2022 paper, challenging anatomical interpretations and the irreproducible referral of some of the isolated bones to Cryptovaranoides. Modifying the datasets accordingly, they found Cryptovaranoides outside Squamata and presented evidence that it is far outside. In 2024 (reference 19), the original authors defended most of their original interpretation and presented some new data, some of it from newly referred isolated bones. The present article discusses anatomical features and the referral of isolated bones in more detail, documents some clear misinterpretations, argues against the widespread but not justifiable practice of referring isolated bones to the same species as long as there is merely no known evidence to the contrary, further argues against comparing newly recognized fossils to lists of diagnostic characters from the literature as opposed to performing phylogenetic analyses and interpreting the results, and finds Cryptovaranoides outside Squamata again.

Although a few of the character discussions and the discussion of at least one of the isolated bones can probably still be improved (and two characters are addressed twice), I see no sign that the discussion is going in circles or otherwise becoming unproductive. I can even imagine that the present contribution will end it.

We appreciate the positive response from reviewer 1!

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Congratulations on this thorough manuscript on the phylogenetic affinities of Cryptovaranoides.

Thank you.

Recent interpretations of this taxon, and perhaps some others, have greatly changed the field's understanding of reptile origins- for better and (likely) for worse.

We agree, and note that while it is possible for challenges to be worse than the original interpretations, both the original and subsequent challenges are essential aspects of what make science, science.

This manuscript offers a careful review of the features used to place Cryptovaranoides within Squamata and adequately demonstrates that this interpretation is misguided, and therefore reconciles morphological and molecular data, which is an important contribution to the field of paleontology. The presence of any crown squamate in the Permian or Triassic should be met with skepticism, the same sort of skepticism provided in this manuscript.

We agree and add that every testable hypothesis requires skepticism and testing.

I have outlined some comments addressing some weaknesses that I believe will further elevate the scientific quality of the work. A brief, fresh read‑through to refine a few phrases, particularly where the discussion references Whiteside et al. could also give the paper an even more collegial tone.

We have followed Reviewer 2’s recommendations closely (see below) and have justified in our responses if we do not fully follow a particular recommendation.

This manuscript can be largely improved by additional discussion and figures, where applicable. When I first read this manuscript, I was a bit surprised at how little discussion there was concerning both non-lepidosauromorph lepidosaurs as well as stem-reptiles more broadly. This paper makes it extremely clear that Cryptovaranoides is not a squamate, but would greatly benefit in explaining why many of the characters either suggested by former studies to be squamate in nature or were optimized as such in phylogenetic analyses are rather widespread plesiomorphies present in crownward sauropsids such as millerettids, younginids, or tangasaurids. I suggest citing this work where applicable and building some of the discussion for a greatly improved manuscript. In sum:

(1) The discussion of stem-reptiles should be improved. Nearly all of the supposed squamate features in Cryptovaranoides are present in various stem-reptile groups. I've noted a few, but this would be a fairly quick addition to this work. If this manuscript incorporates this advice, I believe arguments regarding the affinities of Cryptovaranoides (at least within Squamata) will be finished, and this manuscript will be better off for it.

(2) I was also surprised at how little discussion there was here of putative stem-squamates or lepidosauromorphs more broadly. A few targeted comparisons could really benefit the manuscript. It is currently unclear as to why Cryptovaranoides could not be a stem-lepidosaur, although I know that the lepidosaur total-group in these manuscripts lacks character sampling due to their scarcity.

We are responding to (1) and (2) together. We agree with the Reviewer that a thorough comparison of Cryptovaranoides to non-lepidosaurian reptiles is critical. This is precisely what we did in our previous study: Brownstein et al. (2023)— see main text and supplementary information therein. As addressed therein, there is a substantial convergence between early lepidosaurs and some groups of archosauromorphs (our inferred position for Cryptovaranoides). Many of those points are not addressed in detail here in order to avoid redundancy and are simply referenced back to Brownstein et al. (2023). Secondly, stem reptiles (i.e., non-lepidosauromorphs and non-archosauromorphs), such as suggested above (millerettids, younginids, or tangasaurids), are substantially more distantly related to Cryptovaranoides (following any of the published hypotheses). As such, they share fewer traits (either symplesiomorphies or homoplasies), and so, in our opinion, we would risk directing losing the squamate-focus of our study.

We thus respectfully decline to engage the full scope of the problem in this contribution, but do note that this level of detailed work would make for an excellent student dissertation research program.

(3) This manuscript can be improved by additional figures, such as the slice data of the humerus. The poor quality of the scan data for Cryptovaranoides is stated during this paper several times, yet the scan data is often used as evidence for the presence or absence of often minute features without discussion, leaving doubts as to what condition is true. Otherwise, several sections can be rephrased to acknowledge uncertainty, and probably change some character scorings to '?' in other studies.

We strongly agree with the reviewer. Unfortunately, the original publication (Whiteside et al., 2021) did not make available the raw CT scan data to make this possible. As noted below in the Responses to Recommendations Section, we only have access to the mesh files for each segmented element. While one of us has observed the specimens personally, we have not had the opportunity to CT scan the specimens ourselves.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

The study provides an interesting contribution to our understanding of Cryptovaranoides relationships, which is a matter of intensive debate among researchers. My main concerns are in regard to the wording of some statements, but generally, the discussion and data are well prepared. I would recommend moderate revisions.

Strengths:

(1) Detailed analysis of the discussed characters.

(2) Illustrations of some comparative materials.

Thank you for noting the strengths inherent to our study.

Weaknesses:

Some parts of the manuscript require clarification and rewording.

One of the main points of criticism of Whiteside et al. is using characters for phylogenetic considerations that are not included in the phylogenetic analyses therein. The authors call it a "non-trivial substantive methodological flaw" (page 19, line 531). I would step down from such a statement for the reasons listed below:

(1) Comparative anatomy is not about making phylogenetic analyses. Comparative anatomy is about comparing different taxa in search of characters that are unique and characters that are shared between taxa. This creates an opportunity to assess the level of similarity between the taxa and create preliminary hypotheses about homology. Therefore, comparative anatomy can provide some phylogenetic inferences.

That does not mean that tests of congruence are not needed. Such comparisons are the first step that allows creating phylogenetic matrices for analysis, which is the next step of phylogenetic inference. That does not mean that all the papers with new morphological comparisons should end with a new or expanded phylogenetic matrix. Instead, such papers serve as a rationale for future papers that focus on building phylogenetic matrices.

We agree completely. We would also add that not every study presenting comparative anatomical work need be concluded with a phylogenetic analysis.

Our criticism of Whiteside et al. (2022) and (2024) is that these studies provided many unsubstantiated claims of having recovered synapomorphies between Cryptovaranoides and crown squamates without actually having done so through the standard empirical means (i.e., phylogenetic analysis and ancestral state reconstruction). Both Whiteside et al. (2022) and (2024) indicate characters presented as ‘shared with squamates’ along with 10 characters presented as synapomorphies (10). However, their actual phylogenetically recovered synapomorphies were few in number (only 3) and these were not discussed.

Furthermore, Whiteside et al. (2022) and (2024) comparative anatomy was restricted to comparing †Cryptovaranoides to crown squamates., based on the assumption that †Cryptovaranoides was a crown squamate and thus only needed to be compared to crown squamates.

In conclusion, we respectfully, we maintain such efforts are “non-trivial substantive methodological flaw(s)”.

(2) Phylogenetic matrices are never complete, both in terms of morphological disparity and taxonomic diversity. I don't know if it is even possible to have a complete one, but at least we can say that we are far from that. Criticising a work that did not include all the possibly relevant characters in the phylogenetic analysis is simply unfair. The authors should know that creating/expanding a phylogenetic matrix is a never-ending work, beyond the scope of any paper presenting a new fossil.

Respectfully, we did not criticize previous studies for including an incomplete phylogeny. Instead, we criticized the methodology behind the homology statements made in Whiteside et al. (2022) and Whiteside et al. (2024).

(3) Each additional taxon has the possibility of inducing a rethinking of characters. That includes new characters, new character states, character state reordering, etc. As I said above, it is usually beyond the scope of a paper with a new fossil to accommodate that into the phylogenetic matrix, as it requires not only scoring the newly described taxon but also many that are already scored. Since the digitalization of fossils is still rare, it requires a lot of collection visits that are costly in terms of time.

We agree on all points, but we are unsure of what the Reviewer is asking us to do relative to this study.

(4) If I were to search for a true flaw in the Whiteside et al. paper, I would check if there is a confirmation bias. The mentioned paper should not only search for characters that support Cryptovaranoides affinities with Anguimorpha but also characters that deny that. I am not sure if Whiteside et al. did such an exercise. Anyway, the test of congruence would not solve this issue because by adding only characters that support one hypothesis, we are biasing the results of such a test.

We would refer the Reviewer to their section (1) on comparative anatomy. As we and the Reviewer have pointed out, Whiteside et al. did not perform comparative anatomical statements outside of crown Squamata in their original study. More specifically, Whiteside et al. (2022, Fig. 8) presented a phylogeny where Cryptovaranoides formed a clade with Xenosaurus within the crown of Anguimorpha or what they termed “Anguiformes”, and made comparisons to the anatomies of the legless anguids, Pseudopus and Ophisaurus. Whiteside et al. (2024), abandoned “Anguiformes”, maintained comparisons to Pseudopus and emphasized affinities with Anguimorpha (but almost all of their phylogenies as published, they do not recover a monophyletic Angumimorpha unless amphisbaenians and snakes are considered to be anguimorphans. Thus, we agree that confirmation bias was inherent in their studies.

To sum up, there is nothing wrong with proposing some hypotheses about character homology between different taxa that can be tested in future papers that will include a test of congruence. Lack of such a test makes the whole argumentation weaker in Whiteside et al., but not unacceptable, as the manuscript might suggest. My advice is to step down from such strong statements like "methodological flaw" and "empirical problems" and replace them with "limitations", which I think better describes the situation.

We agree with the first sentence in this paragraph – there is nothing wrong with proposing character homologies between different taxa based on comparative anatomical studies. However, that is not what Whiteside et al. (2022) and (2024) did. Instead, they claimed that an ad hoc comparison of Cryptovaranoides to crown Squamata confirmed that Cryptovaranoides is in fact a crown squamate and likely a member of Anguimorpha. Their study did not recognize limitations, but rather, concluded that their new taxon pushed the age of crown Squamata into the Triassic.

As noted by Reviewer 2, such a claim, and the ‘data’ upon which it is based, should be treated with skepticism. We have elected to apply strong skepticism and stringent tests of falsification to our critique.

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

(1) Lines 596-598 promise the following: "we provide a long[-]form review of these and other features in Cryptovaranoides that compare favorably with non-squamate reptiles in Supplementary Material." You have kindly informed me that all this material has been moved into the main text; please amend this passage.

This has been deleted.

(2) Comments on science

41: I would rather say "an additional role".

This has been edited accordingly.

43: Reconstructing the tree entirely from extant organisms and adding fossils later is how Hennig imagined it, because he was an entomologist, and fossil insects are, on average,e extremely rare and usually very incomplete (showing a body outline and/or wing venation and little or nothing else). He was wrong, indeed wrong-headed. As a historical matter, phylogenetic hypotheses were routinely built on fossils by the mid-1860s, pretty much as soon as the paleontologists had finished reading On the Origin of Species, and this practice has never declined, let alone been interrupted. As a theoretical matter, including as many extinct taxa as possible in a phylogenetic analysis is desirable because it breaks up long branches (as most recently and dramatically shown by Mongiardino Koch & Parry 2020), and while some methods and some kinds of data are less susceptible to long-branch attraction and long-branch repulsion than others, none are immune; and while missing data (on average more common in fossils) can actively mislead parametric methods, this is not the case with parsimony, and even in Bayesian inference the problem is characters with missing data, not taxa with missing data. Some of you have, moreover, published tip-dated phylogenetic analyses. As a practical matter, molecular data are almost never available from fossils, so it is, of course, true that analyses which only use molecular data can almost never include fossils; but in the very rare exceptions, there is no reason to treat fossil evidence as an afterthought.

We agree and have changed “have become” to “is.”

49-50, 59: The ages of individual fissure fills can be determined by biostratigraphy; as far as I understand, all specimens ever referred to Cryptovaranoides [13, 19] come from a single fill that is "Rhaetian, probably late Rhaetian (equivalent of Cotham Member, Lilstock Formation)" [13: pp. 2, 15].

We appreciate this comment; the recent literature, however, suggests that variable ages are implied by the biostratigraphy at the English Fissure Fills, so we have chosen to keep this as is. Also note that several isolated bones were not recovered with the holotype but were discussed by Whiteside et al. (2024). The provenance of these bones was not clearly discussed in that paper.

59-60: Why "putative"? Just to express your disagreement? I would do that in a less misleading way, for example: "and found this taxon as a crown-group squamate (squamate hereafter) in their phylogenetic analyses." - plural because [19] presented four different analyses of two matrices just in the main paper.

We have removed this word.

121-124: The entepicondylar foramen is homologous all the way down the tree to Eusthenopteron and beyond. It has been lost a quite small number of times. The ectepicondylar foramen - i.e., the "supinator" (brachioradialis) process growing distally to meet the ectepicondyle, fusing with it and thereby enclosing the foramen - goes a bit beyond Neodiapsida and also occurs in a few other amniote clades (...as well as, funnily enough, Eusthenopteron in later ontogeny, but that's independent).

We agree. However, the important note here is that the features on the humerus of Cryptovaranoides are not comparable (differ in location and morphology) to the ent- and ectepondylar foramina in other reptiles, as we discuss at length. As such, we have kept this sentence as is.

153: Yes, but you [18] mistakenly wrote "strong anterior emargination of the maxillary nasal process, which is [...] a hallmark feature of archosauromorphs" in the main text (p. 14) - and you make the same mistake again here in lines 200-206! Also, the fact [19: Figure 2a-c] remains that Cryptovaranoides did not have an antorbital fenestra, let alone an antorbital fossa surrounding it (a fossa without a fenestra only occurs in some cases of secondary loss of the fenestra, e.g., in certain ornithischian dinosaurs). Unsurprisingly, therefore, Cryptovaranoides also does not have an orbital-as-opposed-to-nasal process on its maxilla [19: Figure 2a-c].

Line 243-249 (in original manuscript) deal with the emargination of maxillary nasal process (but this does not imply a full antorbital fenestra).  We explicitly state that this feature alone "has limited utility" for supporting archosauromorph affinity.

158-173: The problem here is not that the capitellum is not preserved; from amniotes and "microsaurs" to lissamphibians and temnospondyls, capitella ossify late, and larger capitella attach to proportionately larger concave surfaces, so there is nothing wrong with "the cavity in which it sat clearly indicates a substantial condyle in life". Instead, the problem is a lack of quantification (...as has also been the case in the use of the exact same character in the debate on the origin of lissamphibians); your following sentence (lines 173-175) stands. The rest of the paragraph should be drastically shortened.

We appreciate this comment. We note that the ontogenetic variation of this feature is in part the issue with the interpretation provided by Whiteside et al. (2024). The issue is the lack of consistency on the morphology of the capitellum in that study. We are unclear on what the reviewer means by ‘quantification,’ as the character in question is binary. 

250-252: It's not going to matter here, but in any different phylogenetic context, "sphenoid" would be confusing given the sphenethmoid, orbitosphenoid, pleurosphenoid, and laterosphenoid. I actually recommend "parabasisphenoid" as used in the literature on early amniotes (fusion of the dermal parasphenoid and the endochondral basisphenoid is standard for amniotes).

We have added "(=parabasisphenoid)" on first use but retain use of sphenoid because in the squamate and archosauromorph literature, sphenoid (or basisphenoid) is used more frequently.

314-315: Vomerine teeth are, of course, standard for sarcopterygians. Practically all extant amphibians have a vomerine toothrow, for example. A shagreen of denticles on the vomer is not as widespread but still reaches into the Devonian (Tulerpeton).

We agree, but vomerine teeth are rare in lepidosaurs and archosaurs and occur only in very recent clades e.g. anguids and one stem scincoid. Their presence in amphibians is not directly relevant to the phylogenetic placement of Cryptovaranoides among reptiles.

372: Fusion was not scored as present in [13], but as unknown (as "partial" uncertainty between states 0 and 1 [19:8]), and seemingly all three options were explored in [19].

We politely disagree with the reviewer; state 1 is scored in Whiteside et al. (2024).

377-383: Together with the partially fused NHMUK PV R37378 [13: Figure 4B, C; 19: 8], this is actually an argument that Cryptovaranoides is outside but close to Unidentata. The components of the astragalus fuse so early in extant amniotes that there is just a single ossification center in the already fused cartilage, but there are Carboniferous and Permian examples of astragali with sutures in the expected places; all of the animals in question (Diadectes, Hylonomus, captorhinids) seem to be close to but outside Amniota. (And yet, the astragalus has come undone in chamaeleons, indicating the components have not been lost.) - Also, if NHMUK PV R37378 doesn't belong to a squamate close to Unidentata, what does it belong to? Except in toothless beaks, premaxillary fusion is really rare; only molgin newts come to mind (and age, tooth size, and tooth number of NHMUK PV R37378 are wholly incompatible with a salamandrid).

The relevance of the astragalus is to the current discussion is unclear as we do not mention this element in our manuscript.  We discuss the fusion in the premaxillae in response to previous comment. 

471-474: That thing is concave. (The photo is good enough that you can enlarge it to 800% before it becomes too pixelated.) It could be a foramen filled with matrix; it does not look like a grain sticking to the outside of the bone. Also, spell out that you're talking about "suc.fo" in Figure 3j.

We are also a bit confused about this comment, as we state:

“Finally, we note here that Whiteside et al. [19] appear to have labeled a small piece of matrix attached to a coracoid that they refer to †C. microlanius as the supracoroacoid [sic] foramen in their figure 3, although this labeling is inferred because only “suc, supracoroacoid [sic]” is present in their figure 3 caption.” (L. 519-522, P. 17). We cannot verify that this structure is concave, as so we keep this text as is.

476-489: [19] conceded in their section 4.1 (pp. 11-12) that the atlas pleurocentrum, though fused to the dorsal surface of the axis intercentrum as usual for amniotes and diadectomorphs, was not fused to the axis pleurocentrum.

This is correct, as we note in the MS. The issue is whether these elements are clearly identifiable.

506-510: [19:12] did identify what they considered a possible ulnar patella, illustrated it (Figure 4d), scored it as unknown, and devoted the entire section 4.4 to it.<br /> 512-523: What I find most striking is that Whiteside et al., having just discovered a new taxon, feel so certain that this is the last one and any further material from that fissure must be referable to one of the species now known from there.

We agree with these points and believe we have devoted adequate text to addressing them. Note that the reviewer does not recommend any revisions to these sections.

553: Not that it matters, but I'm surprised you didn't use TNT 1.6; it came out in 2023 and is free like all earlier versions.

We have kept this as is following the reviewer comment, and because we were interested in replicating the analyses in the previous publications that have contributed to the debate about the identity of this taxon.  For the present simple analyses both versions should perform identically, as the search algorithms for discrete characters are identical across these versions.

562: Is "01" a typo, or do you mean "0 or 1"? In that case, rather write "0/1" or "{01}".

This has been corrected to {01}

(3) Comments on nomenclature and terminology

55, 56: Delete both "...".

This has been corrected.

100: "ent- and ectepicondylar"

For clarity, we have kept the full words.

107-108: I understand that "high" is proximal and "low" is distal, but what is "the distal surface" if it is not the articular surface in the elbow joint?

This has been corrected.

120: "stem pan-lepidosaurs, and stem pan-squamates"; Lepidosauria and Squamata are crown groups that don't contain their stems

This has been corrected.

122, 123: Italics for Claudiosaurus and Delorhynchus.

This has been corrected.

130: Insert a space before "Tianyusaurus" (it's there in the original), and I recommend de-italicizing the two genus names to keep the contrast (as you did in line 162).

This has been corrected.

130, 131: Replace both "..." by "[...]", though you can just delete the second one.

This has been corrected.

174: Not a capitulum, but a grammatically even smaller (double diminutive) capitellum.

This has been corrected.

209, 224, Table 1: Both teams have consistently been doing this wrong. It's "recessus scalae tympani". The scala tympani ("ladder/staircase of the [ear]drum") isn't the recess, it's what the recess is for; therefore, the recess is named "recess of the scala tympani", and because there was no word for "of" in Classical Latin ("de" meant "off" and "about"), the genitive case was the only option. (For the same reason, the term contains "tympani", the genitive of "tympanum".)

This has been corrected.

415-425: This is a terminological nightmare. Ribs can have (and I'm not sure this is exhaustive): a) two separate processes (capitulum, tuberculum) that each bear an articulating facet, and a notch in between; b) the same, but with a non-articulating web of bone connecting the processes; c) a single uninterrupted elongate (even angled) articulating facet that articulates with the sutured or fused dia- and parapophysis; d) a single round articulating facet. Certainly, a) is bicapitate and d) is unicapitate, but for b) and c) all bets are off as to how any particular researcher is going to call them. This is a known source of chaos in phylogenetic analyses. I recommend writing a sentence or three on how the terms "unicapitate" & "bicapitate" lack fixed meanings and have caused confusion throughout tetrapod phylogenetics, and that the condition seen in Cryptovaranoides is nonetheless identical to that in archosauromorphs.

This has been added: “This confusion in part stems from the lack of a fixed meaning for uni- and bicapitate rib heads; in any case, †C. microlanius possesses a condition identical to archosauromorphs as we have shown.”  (L.475-477, P.16).

439-440: Other than in archosaurs, some squamates and Mesosaurus, in which sauropsids are dorsal intercentra absent?

We are unclear about the relevance of the question to this section. The issue at hand is that some squamate lineages possess dorsal intercentra, so the absence of dorsal intercentra cannot be considered a squamate synapomorphy without the optimization of this feature along a phylogeny (which was not accomplished by Whiteside et al.).

458: prezygapophyses.

This has been corrected.

516: "[...]".

This has been corrected.

566: synapomorphies.

This has been corrected.

587: Macrocnemus.

This has been corrected.

585: I strongly recommend either taking off and nuking the name Reptilia from orbit (like Pisces) or using it the way it is defined in Phylonyms, namely as the crown group (a subset of Neodiapsida). Either would mean replacing "neodiapsid reptiles" with "neodiapsids".

This has been corrected to “neodiapsids.”

625: Replace "inclusive clades" by "included clades", "component clades", "subclades", or "parts," for example.

This has been kept as is because “inclusive clades” is common terminology and is used extensively in, for example, the PhyloCode. 

659: Please update.

References are updated.

Fig. 8: Typo in Puercosuchus.

This has been corrected.

(4) Comments on style and spelling

You inconsistently use the past and the present tense to describe [13, 19], sometimes both in the same sentence (e.g., lines 323 vs. 325). I recommend speaking of published papers in the past tense to avoid ascribing past views and acts to people in their present state.

This has been corrected to be more consistent throughout the manuscript.

48: Remove the second comma.

This has been corrected.

91: Replace "[13] and WEA24" by "[13, 19]".

This has been corrected.

100: Commas on both sides of "in fact" or on neither

This has been corrected.

117: I recommend "the interpretation in [19]". I have nothing against the abbreviation "WEA24", but you haven't defined it, and it seems like a remnant of incomplete editing. - That said, eLife does not impose a format on such things. If you prefer, you can just bring citation by author & year back; in that case, this kind of abbreviation would make perfect sense (though it should still be explicitly defined).<br /> 129, 145: Likewise.

We have modified this [13] and [19] where necessary.

192-198: Surely this should be made part of the paragraph in lines 158-175, which has the exact same headline?

This has been corrected.

200-206: Surely this should be made part of the paragraph in lines 148-156, which has the exact same headline?

These sections deal with different issues pertaining to the analyses of Whiteside et al. (2024) and so we have kept to organization as is.

214: Delete "that".

This has been deleted.

312: "Vomer" isn't an adjective; I'd write "main vomer body" or "vomer's main body" or "main body of the vomer".

This has been corrected.

350: "figured"

This has been corrected.

400: Rather, "rearticulated" or "worked to rearticulate"? - And why "several"? Just write "two". "Several" implies larger numbers.

These issues have been corrected.

448, 500: As which? As what kind of feature? I'm aware that "as such" is fairly widely used for "therefore", but it still confuses me every time, and I have to suspect I'm not the only one. I recommend "therefore" or "for this reason" if that is what you mean.

“As such” has been deleted.

452: Adobe Reader doesn't let me check, but I think you have two spaces after "of".

This has been corrected.

514, 539, 546, 552, 588, Fig. 3, 5, 6, Table 1: "WEA24" strikes again.

This has been corrected.

515: Remove the parentheses.

This has been corrected.

531: Insert a space after the period.

This has been corrected.

532: Remove both commas and the second "that".

This has been corrected.

538: Remove the comma.

This has been kept as is because changing it would render the sentence grammatically incorrect.

545: "[...]" or, better, nothing.

This has been corrected.

547: Spaces on both sides of the dash or on neither (as in line 553).

This has been corrected.

552: Rather, "conducted a parsimony analysis".

This has been corrected.

556: Space after "[19]".

This has been corrected.

560: Comma after "narrow".

This has been corrected.

600: Comma after "above" to match the one in the preceding line - there's an insertion in the sentence that must be flanked by commas on both sides.

This has been corrected.

603: Compound adjectives like "alpha-taxonomic" need a hyphen to avoid tripping readers up.

This has been corrected.

612: Similarly, "ancestral-state reconstruction" needs one to make immediately clear it isn't a state reconstruction that is ancestral but a reconstruction of ancestral states.

This has been corrected.

613: If you want to keep this comma, you need to match it with another after "Cryptovaranoides" in line 611.

We have kept this as is, because removing this comma would render the sentence grammatically incorrect.

615: Likewise, you need a comma after "and" because "except for a few features" is an insertion. The other comma is actually optional; it depends on how much emphasis you want to place on what comes after it.

this has been added.

622: Comma after "[48, 49]".

this has been added.

672: Missing italics and two missing spaces.

This has been corrected.

678, 680-681, 693, 700-701, 734, 742, 747, 788, 797, 799, 803, 808, 810-811, 814, 817, 820, 823, 828, 841, 843: Missing italics.

This has been corrected.

683, 689: These are book chapters. Cite them accordingly.

This has been corrected.

737: Missing DOI.

No DOI is available.

793: Missing Bolosaurus major; and I'd rather cite it as "2024" than "in press", and "online early" instead of "n/a".

This has been corrected.

835: Hoffstetter, RJ?

This has been corrected.

836: Is there something missing?

This has been corrected.

839: This is the same reference as number 20 (lines 683-684), and it is miscited in a different way...!

This has been corrected.

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

(1) There is a brief mention of a phylogenetic analysis being re-run, but it is unclear if any modifications (changes in scoring) based on the very observations were made. Please state this explicitly.

This is explained from lines 600-622, P.20-21, in the section “Apomorphic characters not empirically obtained.”  "In order to check the characters listed by Whiteside et al. [19] (p.19) as “two diagnostic characters” and “eight synapomorphies” in support of a squamate identity for †Cryptovaranoides, we conducted a parsimony analysis of the revised version of the dataset [32] provided by Whiteside et al. [19] in TNT v 1.5 [91]. We used Whiteside et al.’s [19] own data version"

(2) Line 20: There is almost no discussion of non‑lepidosaur lepidosauromorphs. I suggest including this, as the archosauromorph‑like features reported in Cryptovaranoides appear rather plastic. Furthermore, diagnostic features of Archosauromorpha in other datasets (e.g., Ezcurra 2016 or the works of Spiekman) are notably absent (and unsampled) in Cryptovaranoides. Expanding this comparison would greatly strengthen the manuscript.

The brief discussion (although not absent) of non-lepidosaur lepidosauromorphs is largely a function of the poor fossil record of this grade. But where necessary, we do discuss these taxa. Also see our previous study (Brownstein et al. 2023) for an extensive discussion of characters relevant to archosauromorphs.

(3) Line 38: I suggest removing "Archosauromorpha" from the keywords. The authors make a compelling case that Cryptovaranoides is not a squamate, yet they do not fully test its placement within Archosauromorpha (as they acknowledge). Perhaps use "Reptilia" instead?

We have removed this keyword.

(4) Line 99: The authors' points here are well made and largely valid. The presence of the ent‑ and ectepicondylar foramina is indeed an amniote plesiomorphy and cannot confirm a squamate identity. Their absence, however, can be informative - although it is unclear whether the CT scans of the humerus are of sufficient resolution, and Figure 4 of Brownstein et al. looks hastily reconstructed (perhaps owing to limited resolution). Moreover, the foramina illustrated by Whiteside do resemble those of other reptiles, albeit possibly over‑prepared and exaggerated.

The issue with the noted figure is indeed due to poor resolution from the scans. Although we agree with the reviewer, we hesitate to talk about absence in this taxon being phylogenetically informative given the confounding influence of ontogeny.

(5) I encourage the authors to provide slice data to support the claim that the foramina are absent (which could certainly be correct!); otherwise, the assertion remains unsubstantiated.

We only have access to the mesh files of segmented bones, not the raw (reconstructed slice) data.

(6) PLEASE NOTE - because the specimen is juvenile, the apparent absence of the ectepicondylar foramen is equivocal: the supinator process develops through ontogeny and encloses this foramen (see Buffa et al. 2025 on Thadeosaurus, for example).

See above.

(7) Line 122: Italicize 'Delorhynchus'

This has been corrected.

(8) Lines 131‑132: I'd suggest deleting the final sentence; it feels a little condescending, and your argument is already persuasive.

This has been corrected.

(9) Line 129: Please note that owenettid "parareptiles" also lack this process, as do several other stem‑saurians. Its absence is therefore not diagnostic of Squamata.<br /> Also: Such plasticity is common outside the crown. Milleropsis and Younginidae develop this process during ontogeny, even though a lower temporal bar never fully forms.

We appreciate this point. See discussion later in the manuscript.

(11) Line 172: Consider adding ontogeny alongside taphonomy and preservation. A juvenile would likely have a poorly developed radial condyle, if any. Acknowledging this possibility will add some needed nuance.

This sentence has been modified, but we have not added in discussion of ontogeny here because it is not immediately relevant to refuting the argument about inference of the presence of this feature when it is not preserved.

(12) Line 177: The "septomaxilla" in Whiteside et al. (2024, Figure 1C) resembles the contralateral premaxilla in dorsal view, with the maxillary process on the left and the palatal (or vomerine) process on the right (the dorsal process appears eroded). The foramen looks like a prepalatal foramen, common to many stem and crown reptiles. Consequently, scoring the septomaxilla as absent may be premature; this bone often ossifies late. In my experience with stem‑reptile aggregations, only one of several articulated individuals may ossify this element.

We agree that presence of a late-ossifying septomaxilla cannot be ruled out, but our point remains (and in agreement with Referee) that scoring the septomaxilla as present based on the amorphous fragments is premature.

(13) Line 200: Tomography data should be shown before citing it. The posterior margin of the maxilla appears rather straight, and the maxilla itself is tall for an archosauromorph. It would be more convincing to score this feature as present only after illustrating the relevant slices - and, as you note, the trait is widespread among non‑archosauromorphs.

See above and Brownstein et al. (2023).

(14) Line 208: Well argued: how could Whiteside et al. confidently assign a disarticulated element? Their "vagus" foramen actually resembles a standard hypoglossal foramen - identical to that seen in many stem reptiles, which often have one large and one small opening.

Thank you!

(15) Line 248: Again, please illustrate this region. One cannot argue for absence without showing the slice data. Note that millerettids and procolophonians - contemporaneous with Cryptovaranoides - possess an enclosed vidian canal, so the feature is broadly distributed.

See above.

(16) Line 258: The choanal fossa is intriguing: originally created for squamate matrices, yet present (to varying degrees) in nearly every reptile I have examined. It is strongly developed in millerettids (see Jenkins et al. 2025 on Milleropsis and Milleretta) and younginids, much like in squamates - Tiago appropriately scores it as present. Thus, it may be more of a "Neodiapsida + millerettids" character. In any case, the feature likely forms an ordered cline rather than a simple binary state.

We agree and look forward to future study of this feature.

(17) Line 283: Bolosaurids are not diapsids and, per Simões, myself, and others, "Diapsida" is probably invalid, at least how it is used here. Better to say "neodiapsids" for choristoderes and "stem‑reptiles" or "sauropsids" for bolosaurids. Jenkins et al.'s placement is largely a function of misidentifying the bolosaurid stapes as the opisthotic.

We are not entirely clear on this point since bolosaurids are not mentioned in this section.

(18) Line 298: Here, you note that the CT scans are rather coarse, which makes some earlier statements about absence/presence less certain (e.g., humeral foramina). It may strengthen the paper to make fewer definitive claims where resolution limits interpretation.

We appreciate this point. However, in the case of the humeral foramina the coarseness of the scans is one reason why we question Whiteside et al. scoring of the presence of these features.

(19) Line 314: Multiple rows of vomerine teeth are standard for amniotes; lepidosauromorphs such as Paliguana and Megachirella also exhibit them (though they may not have been segmented in the latter's description). Only a few groups (e.g., varanopids, some millerettids) have a single medial row.

We appreciate this point and have added in those citations into the following added sentence: “Multiple rows of vomerine teeth are common in reptiles outside of Squamata [76]; the presence of only one row is restricted to a handful of clades, including millerettids [77,78], †Tanystropheus [49], and some [79], but not all [71,80] choristoderes.” (L. 360-363, P. 12).

(20) Line 317: This is likely a reptile plesiomorphy - present in all millerettids (e.g., Milleropsis and Milleretta per Jenkins et al.). Citing these examples would clarify that it is not uniquely squamate. Could it be secondarily lost in archosauromorphs?

We appreciate this point and have cited Jenkins et al. here. It is out of the scope of this discussion to discuss the polarity of this feature relative to Archosauromorpha.

(21) Line 336: Unfortunately, a distinct quadratojugal facet is usually absent in Neodiapsids and millerettids; where present, the quadratojugal is reduced and simply overlaps the quadrate.

We appreciate this point but feel that reviewing the distribution of this feature across all reptiles is not relevant to the text noted.

(22) Line 357: Pterygoid‑quadrate overlap is likely a tetrapod plesiomorphy. Whiteside et al. do not define its functional or phylogenetic significance, and the overlap length is highly variable even among sister taxa.

We agree, but in any case this feature is impossible to assess in Cryptovaranoides.

(23) Line 365: Another well‑written section - clear and persuasive.

Thank you!

(24) Line 385: The cephalic condyle is widespread among neodiapsids, so it is not uniquely squamate.

We agree.

(25) Character 391: Note that the frontal underlapping the parietal is widespread, appearing in both millerettids and neodiapsids such as Youngina.

We appreciate this point, but the point here deals with the fact that this feature is not observable in the holotype of Cryptovaranoides.

(26) Line 415: The "anterior process" is actually common among crown reptiles, including sauropterygians, so it cannot by itself place Cryptovaranoides within Archosauromorpha.

We agree but also note that we do not claim this feature unambiguously unites Cryptovaranoides with Archosauromorpha.

(28) Line 460: Yes - Whiteside et al. appear to have relabeled the standard amniote coracoid foramen. Excellent discussion.

Thank you!

(29) Line 496: While mirroring Whiteside's structure, discussing this mandibular character earlier, before the postcrania, might aid readability.

We have chosen to keep this structure as is.

(30) Lines 486-588: This section oversimplifies the quadrate articulation.

We are unclear how this is an oversimplification.

(31) Both Prolacerta and Macrocnemus possess a cephalic condyle and some mobility (though less than many squamates). In Prolacerta (Miedema et al. 2020, Figure 4), the squamosal posteroventral process loosely overlaps the quadrate head.

We assume this comment refers to the section "Peg-in-notch articulation of quadrate head"; we appreciate clarification that this feature occurs in variable extent outside squamates, but this does not affect our statement that the material of Cryptovaranoides is too poorly preserved to confirm its presence.

(32) Where is this process in Cryptovaranoides? It is not evident in Whiteside's segmentation of the slender squamosal - please illustrate.

We are unclear as to which section this comment refers.

(33) Additionally, the quadrate "conch" of Cryptovaranoides is well developed, bearing lateral and medial tympanic crests; the lateral crest is absent in the cited archosauromorphs.

We note that no vertebrate has a medial tympanic crest (it is always laterally placed for the tympanic membrane, when present). If this is what the reviewer refers to, this is a feature commonly found across all tetrapods bearing a tympanum attached to the quadrate (e.g., most reptiles), and so it is not very relevant phylogenetically. Regarding its presence in Cryptovaranoides, the lateral margin of the quadrate is broken (Brownstein et al., 2023), so it cannot be determined. This incomplete preservation also makes an interpretation of a quadrate conch very hard to determine. But as currently preserved, there is no evidence whatsoever for this feature.

(34) Line 591: The cervical vertebrae of Cryptovaranoides are not archosauromorph‑like. Archosauromorph cervicals are elongate, parallelogram‑shaped, and carry long cervical ribs-none of which apply here. As the manuscript lacks a phylogenetic analysis, including these features seems unnecessary. Should they be added to other datasets, I suspect Cryptovaranoides would align along the lepidosaur stem (though that remains to be tested).

We politely disagree. The reviewer here mentions that the cervical vertebrae of archosauromorphs are generally shaped differently from those in Cryptovaranoides. The description provided (“elongate, parallelogram‑shaped, and carry long cervical ribs-none”) is basically limited to protorosaurians (e.g., tanystropheids, Macrocnemus) and early archosauriforms. We note that archosauromorph cervicals are notoriously variable in shape, especially in the crown, but also among early archosauromorphs. Further, the cervical ribs, are notoriously similar among early archosauromorphs (including protorosaurians) and Cryptovaranoides, as discussed and illustrated in Brownstein et al., 2023 (Figs. 2 and 3), especially concerning the presence of the anterior process.

Further, we do include a phylogenetic analysis of the matrix provided in Whiteside et al. (2024) as noted in our results section. In any case, we direct the reviewer to our previous study (Brownstein et al., 2023), in which we conduct phylogenetic analyses that included characters relevant to this note.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

(1) The authors should use specimen numbers all over the text because we are talking about multiple individuals, and the authors contest the previous affinity of some of them. For example, on page 16, line 447, they mention an isolated vertebra but without any number. The specimen can be identified in the referenced article, but it would be much easier for the reader if the number were also provided here

Agreed and added.

(2) Abstract: "Our team questioned this identification and instead suggested Cryptovaranoides had unclear affinities to living reptiles."

That is very imprecise. The team suggested that it could be an archosauromorph or an indeterminate neodiapsid. Please change accordingly.

We politely disagree. We stated in our 2023 study that whereas our phylogenetic analyses place this taxon in Archosauromorpha, it remains unclear where it would belong within the latter. This is compatible with “unclear affinities to living reptiles”.

(3) Page 7, line 172: "Taphonomy and poor preservation cannot be used to infer the presence of an anatomical feature that is absent." Unfortunate wording. Taphonomy always has to be used to infer the presence or absence of anatomical features. Sometimes the feature is not preserved, but it leaves imprints/chemical traces or other taphonomic indicators that it was present in the organism. Please remove or rewrite the sentence.

We agree and have modified the sentence to read: “Taphonomy and poor preservation cannot be used alone to justify the inference that an anatomical feature was present when it is not preserved and there is no evidence of postmortem damage. In a situation when the absence of a feature is potentially ascribable to preservation, its presence should be considered ambiguous.” (L. 141-145, P.5).

(4) Page 4, line 91, please explain "WEA24" here, though it is unclear why this abbreviation is used instead of citation in the manuscript.

This has been corrected to Whiteside et al. [19].

(5) Page 6, line 144: "Together, these observations suggest that the presence of a jugal posterior process was incorrectly scored in the datasets used by WEA24 (type (ii) error)." That sentence is unclear. Why did the authors use "suggest"? Does it mean that they did not have access to the original data matrix to check it? If so, it should be clearly stated at the beginning of the manuscript.

See earlier; this has been modified and “suggest” has been removed.

(6) Page 7, line 174: "Finally, even in the case of the isolated humerus with a preserved capitulum, the condyle illustrated by Whiteside et al. [19] is fairly small compared to even the earliest known pan-squamates, such as Megachirella wachtleri (Figure 4)." Figure 4 does not show any humeri. Please correct.

The reference to figure 4 has been removed.

(7) Page 8, line 195-198: "This is not the condition specified in either of the morphological character sets that they cite [18,38], the presence of a distinct condyle that is expanded and is by their own description not homologous to the condition in other squamates." This is a bit unclear. Could the authors explain it a little bit further? How is the condition that is specified in the referred papers different compared to the Whiteside et al. description?

We appreciate this comment and have broken this sentence up into three sentences to clarify what we mean:

“The projection of the radial condyle above the adjacent region of the distal anterior extremity is not the condition specified in either of the morphological character sets that Whiteside et al. [19] cite [18,32]. The condition specified in those studies is the presence of a distinct condyle that is expanded. The feature described in Whiteside et al. [19] does not correspond to the character scored in the phylogenetic datasets.” (L.220-225, P.8).

(8) Page 16, line 446: "they observed in isolated vertebrae that they again refer to C. microlanius without justification". That is not true. The referred paper explains the attribution of these vertebrae to Cryptovaranoides (see section 5.3 therein). The authors do not have to agree with that justification, but they cannot claim that no justification was made. Please correct it here and throughout the text.

We have modified this sentence but note that the justification in Whiteside et al. (2024) lacked rigor. Whiteside et al. (2024) state: “Brownstein et al. [5] contested the affinities of three vertebrae, cervical vertebra NHMUK PV R37276, dorsal vertebra NHMUK PV R37277 and sacral vertebra NHMUK PV R37275. While all three are amphicoelous and not notochordal, the first two can be directly compared to the holotype. Cervical vertebra NHMUK PV R37276 is of the same form as the holotype CV3 with matching neural spine, ventral keel (=crest) and the posterior lateral ridges or lamina (figure 3c,d) shown by Brownstein et al. [5, fig. 1a]. The difference is that NHMUK PV R37276 has a fused neural arch to the pleurocentrum and a synapophysis rather than separate diapophysis and parapophysis of the juvenile holotype (figure 3c). Neurocentral fusion of the neural arch and centrum can occur late in modern squamates, ‘up to 82% of the species maximum size’ [28].

The dorsal surface of dorsal vertebra NHMUK PV R37277 (figure 3e) can be matched to the mid-dorsal vertebra in the †Cryptovaranoides holotype (figure 4d, dor.ve) and has the same morphology of wide, dorsally and outwardly directed, prezygapophyses, downwardly directed postzygapophyses and similar neural spine. It is also of similar proportions to the holotype when viewed dorsally (figures 3e and 4d), both being about 1.2 times longer anteroposteriorly than they are wide, measured across the posterior margin. The image in figure 4d demonstrates that the posterior vertebrae are part of the same spinal column as the truncated proximal region but the spinal column between the two parts is missing, probably lost in quarrying or fossil collection.”

This justification is based on pointing out the presence of supposed shared features between these isolated vertebrae and those in the holotype of Cryptovaranoides, even though none of these features are diagnostic for that taxon. We have changed the sentence in our manuscript to read:

“Whiteside et al. [19] concur with Brownstein et al. [18] that the diapophyses and parapophyses are unfused in the anterior dorsals of the holotype of †Cryptovaranoides microlanius, and restate that fusion of these structures is based on the condition they observed in isolated vertebrae that they refer to †C. microlanius based on general morphological similarity and without reference to diagnostic characters of †C. microlanius” (L. 502-507, P. 17).

(9) Figure 2. The figure caption lacks some explanations. Please provide information about affinity (e.g., squamate/gekkotan), ag,e and locality of the taxa presented. Are these left or right palatines? The second one seems to be incomplete, and maybe it is worth replacing it with something else?

The figure caption has been modified:

“Figure 2. Comparison of palatine morphologies. Blue shading indicates choanal fossa. Top image of †Cryptovaranoides referred left palatine is from Whiteside et al. [19]. Middle is the left palatine of †Helioscopos dickersonae (Squamata: Pan-Gekkota) from the Late Jurassic Morrison Formation [62]. Bottom is the right palatine of †Eoscincus ornatus (Squamata: Pan-Scincoidea) from the Late Jurassic Morrison Formation [31].”

(10) Figure 8. The abbreviations are not explained in the figure caption.

These have been added.

DOI: 10.1083/jcb.202411107

Resource: (WB Cat# WBStrain00000001,RRID:WB-STRAIN:WBStrain00000001)

Curator: @Apiekniewska

SciCrunch record: RRID:WB-STRAIN:WBStrain00000001

What is this?

DOI: 10.1016/j.xcrm.2025.102471

Resource: RRID:IMSR_JAX:000664

Curator: @areedewitt04

SciCrunch record: RRID:IMSR_JAX:000664

What is this?

DOI: 10.1016/j.celrep.2025.116593

Resource: None

Curator: @areedewitt04

SciCrunch record: RRID:IMSR_JAX:014565

What is this?

eLife Assessment

This manuscript describes the identification and characterization of 12 specific phosphomimetic mutations in the recombinant full-length human tau protein that trigger tau to form fibrils. This fundamental study will allow in vitro mechanistic investigations. The presented evidence is convincing. This manuscript will be of interest to all scientists in the amyloid formation field.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary and Strengths:

The very well-written manuscript by Lövestam et al. from the Scheres/Goedert groups entitled "Twelve phosphomimetic mutations induce the assembly of recombinant full-length human tau into paired helical filaments" demonstrates the in vitro production of the so-called paired helical filament Alzheimer's disease (AD) polymorph fold of tau amyloids through the introduction of 12 point mutations that attempt to mimic the disease-associated hyper-phosphorylation of tau. The presented work is very important because it enables disease-related scientific work, including seeded amyloid replication in cells, to be performed in vitro using recombinant-expressed tau protein.

Comments on revised version:

The manuscript is significantly improved, as also indicated by Reviewer 2, with the 100% formation of the PHF and the additional experiments to elucidate on the potential mechanism by the PTMs. This is a great work.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

This manuscript addresses an important impediment in the field of Alzheimer's disease (AD) and tauapathy research by showing that 12 specific phosphomimetic mutations in full-length tau allow the protein to aggregate into fibrils with the AD fold and the fold of chronic traumatic encephalopathy fibrils in vitro. The paper presents comprehensive structural and cell based seeding data indicating the improvement of their approach over previous in vitro attempts on non-full-length tau constructs. The main weaknesses of this work results from the fact that only up to 70% of the tau fibrils form the desired fibril polymorphs. In addition, some of the figures are of low quality and confusing.

Strengths:

This study provides significant progress towards a very important and timely topic in the amyloid community, namely the in vitro production of tau fibrils found in patients.

The 12 specific phosphomimetic mutations presented in this work will have an immediate impact in the field since they can be easily reproduced.

Multiple high-resolution structures support the success of the phosphomimetic mutation approach.

Additional data show the seeding efficiency of the resulting fibrils, their reduced tendency to bundle, and their ability to be labeled without affecting core structure or seeding capability.

Comments on revised version:

Generally, I am satisfied with the revisions. Specifically, the new results showing 100% formation of PHF is a significant improvement.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

Reviewer #1:

The manuscript is significantly improved, as also indicated by Reviewer 2, with the 100% formation of the PHF and the additional experiments to elucidate on the potential mechanism by the PTMs. This is a great work.

Reviewer #2:

One (minor) issue I do still have is how confusingly the NMR data are presented. Although the authors revised Figure 6 and added labels to the HSQCs etc., this figure and its supplements are still very hard to understand. I think this can be easily fixed by highlighting in the figures and also figure captions which changes/differences the reader is supposed to appreciate and why. 

We have added labelling to Figure 6 and extended the legends to its Supplements.

After our fist revision, the level of evidence in the eLife assessment was described as convincing. In our opinion the results in this paper, which include 11 cryo-EM data sets and NMR experiments on 6 tau constructs among other data, provide a level of evidence that extends beyond the state-of-the-art in the field.

This is about the same number of students in LFS 141. Could suggest using some of these techniques in this module.

The name of the study or paper is Active learning increases student performance in science, engineering, and mathematics.

This is quite a significant number. Need to check the study.

This last two lines are perfectly summarize the serene and calm moment that the calf is enjoying, and what for humans is a source of disgust, for him becomes a source of beauty. More on that on my "Final reflections" page.

The author was not concerned with complex stylistic and poetic language and figures. However, this enjambment lets the reader focus on the phrase freak of nature, which is how the two-headed calf is first described. It shows, as the whole first stanza does, the cold and cruel behavior of the farmers towards him.

eLife Assessment

The present study employed transcriptomics to investigate the impact of methionine restriction (MR) and cold exposure (CE) on liver and adipose tissues in mice. The authors demonstrate that responses to MR and CE are tissue-specific, while both MR and CE have a similar effect on beige adipose tissue. While these findings are somewhat descriptive, this work is considered important, as it provides a comprehensive resource for enhancing our understanding of these lifestyle interventions. The study is of high scientific quality, and the analyses are convincing.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

Activation of thermogenesis by cold exposure and dietary protein restriction are two lifestyle changes that impact health in humans and lead to weight loss in model organisms, here the mouse. How these affect liver and adipose tissues has not been thoroughly investigated side by side. In mice, the authors show that the responses to methionine restriction and cold exposure are tissue-specific while the effects on beige adipose are somewhat similar.

Strengths:

The strength of the work is the comparative approach, using transcriptomics and bioinformatic analyses to investigate the tissue-specific impact. The work was performed in mouse models and is state-of-the-art. This represents an important resource for researchers in the field of protein restriction and thermogenesis.

Weaknesses:

The findings are descriptive and the conclusions remain associative. The work is limited to mouse physiology and the human implications have not been investigated yet.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

This study provides a library of RNA sequencing analysis from brown fat, liver and white fat of mice treated with two stressors - cold challenge and methionine restriction - alone and in combination (interaction between diet and temperature). They characterize the physiologic response of the mice to the stressors, including effects on weight, food intake and metabolism. This paper provides evidence that while both stressors increase energy expenditure, there are complex tissue-specific responses in gene expression, with additive, synergistic and antagonistic responses seen in different tissues.

Strengths:

The study design and implementation is solid and well-controlled. Their writing is clear and concise. The authors do an admirable job of distilling the complex transcriptome data into digestible information for presentation in the paper. Most importantly, they do not over reach in their interpretation of their genomic data, keeping their conclusions appropriately tied to the data presented. The discussion is well thought out addresses some interesting points raised by their results.

Weaknesses:

The major weakness of the paper is the almost complete reliance on RNA sequencing data, but it is presented as a transcriptomic resource.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

Ruppert et al. present a well-designed 2×2 factorial study directly comparing methionine restriction (MetR) and cold exposure (CE) across liver, iBAT, iWAT, and eWAT, integrating physiology with tissue-resolved RNA-seq. This approach allows a rigorous assessment of where dietary and environmental stimuli act additively, synergistically, or antagonistically. Physiologically, MetR progressively increases energy expenditure (EE) at 22{degree sign}C and lowers RER, indicating a lipid utilization bias. By contrast, a 24-hour 4 {degree sign}C challenge elevates EE across all groups and eliminates MetR-Ctrl differences. Notably, changes in food intake and activity do not explain the MetR effect at room temperature.

Strengths:

The data convincingly support the central claim: MetR enhances EE and shifts fuel preference to lipids at thermoneutrality, while CE drives robust EE increases regardless of diet and attenuates MetR-driven differences. Transcriptomic analysis reveals tissue-specific responses, with additive signatures in iWAT and CE-dominant effects in iBAT. The inclusion of explicit diet×temperature interaction modeling and GSEA provides a valuable transcriptomic resource for the field.

Comments on revisions:

The authors have addressed any concerns I had.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

Summary: 

Activation of thermogenesis by cold exposure and dietary protein restriction are two lifestyle changes that impact health in humans and lead to weight loss in model organisms - here, in mice. How these affect liver and adipose tissues has not been thoroughly investigated side by side. In mice, the authors show that the responses to methionine restriction and cold exposure are tissue-specific, while the effects on beige adipose are somewhat similar.

Strengths: 

The strength of the work is the comparative approach, using transcriptomics and bioinformatic analyses to investigate the tissue-specific impact. The work was performed in mouse models and is state-of-the-art. This represents an important resource for researchers in the field of protein restriction and thermogenesis. 

Weaknesses: 

The findings are descriptive, and the conclusions remain associative. The work is limited to mouse physiology, and the human implications have not been investigated yet.

We thank Reviewer 1 for their thoughtful review and for highlighting the strength of our comparative, tissue-specific analyses. We acknowledge that our study is descriptive and limited to mouse physiology, and agree that translation to humans will be an important next step. By making these data broadly accessible, we aim to provide a useful resource for future mechanistic and translational studies on dietary amino acid restriction and thermogenesis.

Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

Summary: 

This study provides a library of RNA sequencing analysis from brown fat, liver, and white fat of mice treated with two stressors - cold challenge and methionine restriction - alone and in combination (interaction between diet and temperature). They characterize the physiologic response of the mice to the stressors, including effects on weight, food intake, and metabolism. This paper provides evidence that while both stressors increase energy expenditure, there are complex tissue-specific responses in gene expression, with additive, synergistic, and antagonistic responses seen in different tissues.

Strengths: 

The study design and implementation are solid and well-controlled. Their writing is clear and concise. The authors do an admirable job of distilling the complex transcriptome data into digestible information for presentation in the paper. Most importantly, they do not overreach in their interpretation of their genomic data, keeping their conclusions appropriately tied to the data presented. The discussion is well thought out and addresses some interesting points raised by their results.

Weaknesses: 

The major weakness of the paper is the almost complete reliance on RNA sequencing data, but it is presented as a transcriptomic resource.

We thank Reviewer 2 for their positive evaluation of our study and for highlighting the strengths of our design, analyses, and interpretation. We acknowledge the limitation of relying primarily on RNA-seq, and emphasize that our intent was to provide a comprehensive transcriptomic resource to guide future mechanistic work by the community.

Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

Summary: 

Ruppert et al. present a well-designed 2×2 factorial study directly comparing methionine restriction (MetR) and cold exposure (CE) across liver, iBAT, iWAT, and eWAT, integrating physiology with tissue-resolved RNA-seq. This approach allows a rigorous assessment of where dietary and environmental stimuli act additively, synergistically, or antagonistically. Physiologically, MetR progressively increases energy expenditure (EE) at 22{degree sign}C and lowers RER, indicating a lipid utilization bias. By contrast, a 24-hour 4 {degree sign}C challenge elevates EE across all groups and eliminates MetR-Ctrl differences. Notably, changes in food intake and activity do not explain the MetR effect at room temperature.

Strengths: 

The data convincingly support the central claim: MetR enhances EE and shifts fuel preference to lipids at thermoneutrality, while CE drives robust EE increases regardless of diet and attenuates MetR-driven differences. Transcriptomic analysis reveals tissue-specific responses, with additive signatures in iWAT and CE-dominant effects in iBAT. The inclusion of explicit diet×temperature interaction modeling and GSEA provides a valuable transcriptomic resource for the field.

Weaknesses: 

Limitations include the short intervention windows (7 d MetR, 24 h CE), use of male-only cohorts, and reliance on transcriptomics without complementary proteomic, metabolomic, or functional validation. Greater mechanistic depth, especially at the level of WAT thermogenic function, would strengthen the conclusions.

We thank Reviewer 3 for their thorough review and for recognizing the strengths of our factorial design, physiological assessments, and transcriptomic analyses. We acknowledge the limitations of short intervention windows, male-only cohorts, and the reliance on transcriptomics. Our aim was to generate a well-controlled comparative dataset as a resource, and we agree that future work incorporating longer interventions, both sexes, and additional mechanistic layers will be important to build on these findings.

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

In my opinion, the comparative analysis between tissues and treatments could be expanded.

We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We included top30 DEG heatmaps for the comparison MetR_CEvsCtrl_RT for up and downregulated genes in the figures for each tissue. We also provide additional data in the supplementary, including top30 heatmaps for Ctrl_CEvsCtrl_RT, MetR_RTvsCtrl_RT, the interaction term, as well as one excel sheet per tissue for all DEGs (p<0.05 and FC +/- 1.5 and for all gene sets (GSEA).

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

(1) CE robustly increases food intake, yet MetR mice at room temperature, despite elevated EE, do not appear to increase feeding to maintain energy balance. The authors should discuss this discrepancy, as it represents an intriguing avenue for follow-up.

See answer below.

(2) CE raises EE to ~0.9 kcal/h irrespective of diet, suggesting that the additive weight loss seen with MetR+CE (Fig. 1H) must be due to reduced intake. This raises the possibility that MetR mice fail to appropriately sense negative energy balance, even under CE, and do not compensate with higher feeding. 

We thank the reviewer for comments 1 and 2. We did not put an emphasis on this finding, as the literature on the effects on food intake under sulfur amino acid restriction are very inconsistent. Intial studies (e.g. by Gettys group) most often report on food intake per gram bodyweight and report an increase in caloric intake. We think that this reporting is flawed and should rather be reported as cumulative food intake. The recent paper by the Dixit group also reports that there is no effect on food intake, in line with our data. The recent paper by the Nudler group reports a decrease in food intake.

(3) Report effect sizes and sample sizes alongside p-values in all figure panels, and ensure the GEO accession (currently listed as "GSEXXXXXX") is provided.

We thank the reviewer for noticing this. So far we were unable to upload the datasets to GEO. We’re unable to connect to the NIH servers, presumably due to the US government shutdown. We are commited to sharing this dataset as soon as possible and will update the manuscript in the future accordingly. We included the sample size for experiment 1 and 2 in the figure legends and described our outlier detection method in the methods section. Significances are explained in the figure legends.

(4) Explicitly define the criteria for "additive," "synergistic," and "antagonistic" interactions (both at the gene and pathway levels) to help readers align the text with the figures.

We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We added an description of how we defined and computed the regulatory logic in the method section.

(5) Revise the introduction to address recent data from the Dixit group (ref. #38), which shows that EE induced by cysteine restriction and weight loss is independent of FGF21 and UCP1. As written, the introduction states: "Recent studies have shown that DIT via dietary MetR augments energy expenditure in a UCP1-dependent...fashion". 

See answer below.

(6) "Mechanistically, MetR...results in secretion of FGF21. In turn, FGF21 augments EE by activating UCP1-driven thermogenesis in brown adipose tissue via β-adrenergic signaling (4,7)." This should be updated for accuracy and balance.

We thank the reviewers for both comments 5 and 6. Both recent publications by the Dixit and the Nudler groups (now ref 9 and 10) provide very interesting further mechanistic detail into the bodyweight loss in response to dietary sulfur amino acid restriction. However, there are also older papers by the Gettys group that in part contradict their findings, particularly, when it comes to the importance of UCP1 for the adaptation to sulfur amino acid restriction. Overall, we think that further work is required to determine the importance of UCP1-driven EE from alternative mechanisms that ultimately drive body and fat mass loss. We rewrote the referenced paragraph in the introduction to reflect this.

This last two lines are perfectly summarize the serene and calm moment that the calf is enjoying, and what for humans is a source of disgust, for him becomes a source of beauty. More on that on my "Final reflections" page.

This second stanza, instead, completely opposes the first one, and focuses on the present moment and life.

The author was not concerned with complex stylistic and poetic language and figures. However, this enjambment lets the reader focus on the phrase freak of nature, which is how the two-headed calf is first described. It shows, as the whole first stanza does, the cold and cruel behavior of the farmers towards him

Quote: Emphasizes that standard English is basically the gatekeeper to being powerful with words and in arguments, and such causes students to learn it and therefore reinforce the gatekeeping.

Paraphrase: The author explains how this enforcement of grammar completely interrupts her thinking and prevents herself from engaging in ideas.

Match's Snell & Cushing

Personal experience of language shame. Showed humiliation for not speaking standard English.

Quote: Great example of how the policing of grammar and pronunciation caused early shame and directly harmed her learning.

...wrong or bad or stupid."

Supports identity and student voice which aligns with the values and arguments of Young.

The value of the presentation of the content is worth more than the content itself. When this is true, this directly harms communication and confidence within the students.

The comparison here helped me understand why paraphrasing is often better than long block quotes. Even though the original quote is interesting, it contains extra terms that distract the reader. The paraphrased version is shorter and clearer while keeping the main idea. This makes me want to practice paraphrasing more because it allows me to show my understanding instead of relying on long copied sections.

This part explains clearly why dropping quotes without context makes writing confusing. I used to think that adding a citation was enough, but readers need to know who the author is, why their idea matters, and how it supports my argument. The example in this section shows how a quote can feel “ghostly” if it appears suddenly. This reminds me to always introduce and explain every quote I use.

Before reading this chapter, I didn’t realize there were so many ways to develop an original thesis using sources. I used to think my only job was to agree or disagree with one article. This list helps me see that I can combine studies, look for patterns, or point out unanswered questions. It gives me more creative options for building my own argument instead of just repeating what sources say.

This “They Say / I Say” idea makes a lot of sense to me because in many past essays I either depended too much on sources or summarized them without connecting to my own point. Guptill’s explanation shows that good writing balances both: listening to what “they” say, then adding what I think. It reminds me that my voice matters, as long as I connect it directly to the sources.

This paragraph highlights how K–12 schools in the U.S. are moving beyond simply adopting OER to actively training teachers to use them effectively. It also shows how collaborations between OER creators and organizations support the development of full-course, openly licensed curricula. The #GoOpen initiative demonstrates strong institutional support, helping districts commit to OER use and professional development.

LiDA101

These three lines include two of the most insightful quotes in all of philosophy. The successful teacher will always examine themselves, especailly in relation to their interaction with their students. Examining who we honestly are as individuals, is the only way toward true self-improvment. A teacher needs to know this and to explain to their students that self-actualization comes only with self-examination and with the ability to face the pain that comes with self-knowledge.

The discussion of Material Hope and the importance of teaching and teaching quality to its success are among the most significant points made by the author. The dedication of the teacher and the ability of the teacher to relate a topic or subject to the student on that student's level are critical to education, especially for students that feel alienated to the system. Dedication and a true desire to help the student is essential if a teacher wants to connect with the student on a personal level. Students can always detect and respond positively to a caring and passionate teacher. In the end, a teacher is only a guide, and a great teacher is one who can motivate the student to take control of their own development.

This one sentence sums up my belief in effective teaching. The idea of developing deep and caring relationships between a teacher and their students sound simple but is actuallt very complex. On the surface, this sounds like it is primarily an emotional relationship - one in which the student and teacher care about and like one another. In fact, for a teacher to demonstrate a deeply caring attitude means that that teacher needs to invest the time and effort to ensure that the student learns and develops the lessons of the classroom and the lessons of life. Caring about your students means you are not satisfied unless your students mature and develop to fulfill their potential.

The disproportionate distribution of property, wealth, and resources among the population of our country (and the world) is one of the great inustices of man. In a country with so much wealth, with so many billionaires, and with so much money wasted on war and inhumanity, how can we as sentient beings stand by while so many of our fellow humans try to survice on so little. The inequalities asault our sensibilites daily. It is clear that inequalities in our educational system are just a symptom of deeper inustices that pervade our world. We all need to recognize this moral injustice and work against it.

While this new sense of hope is necessary, the changes one looks for will only be possible if people are willing to commit to the necessary work. Changes within the educational system are possible, but not as quickly as we'd like. Only through continuous attempts and constant hope can the possibility of change become a reality. One must not lose hope when it doesn't happen when we want, we need to understand it is a slow process that will eventually come to fruition.

While this level of dedication can help students, it can simultaneously hurt educators. While students are the most important when it comes to education, it is also necessary to look after the educators who are instrumental in ensuring student success. If educators see student failure as personal failure, it can start to cause a decrease in self esteem and confidence in their teaching abilities. While this could be an effective method to help increase students success, it is also important to ensure educators can continue to have high levels of hope even when some of their students dont perform at the level they would have liked.

McCains statement is indeed misleading. The election of a person of color to the presidency does not signify the end of racism, nor does it indicate equality for all. Obamas election was only a small step to achieving such goals. Like the text goes on to state, there are many other aspects of society in which people of color trail behind whites. Despite Obamas election there continues to be disparities in society. While in school I was often told that the election of Obama was the beginning of change for people of color, and while thet is true, it is a small stepping stone to the amount of change that needs to occur. Until people of color are completely equal to whites, you cannot argue that an accomplishment for minority population signifies the ends of hundreds of years of systemic oppression.

This quote is very powerful. It is true, hope aloe will not produce change. Attempting to create change without having hope of its possibility is also pointless. But, both together are powerful and form the first step to actually achieving change. A lot of people know that there are issues within the education system that have to be changes and are willing to do the work but lack confidence in the possibility of change. When people have hope it pushes them more to achieve their goal. It's not only about knowing what to do, or only having the confidence, it's about what is possible with both together.

eLife Assessment

This useful study demonstrates that microsaccade direction primarily indexes shifts rather than the maintenance of covert spatial attention, offering a focused interpretation that may help reconcile inconsistencies in the prior literature. However, the evidence remains incomplete due to limited engagement with the broader body of existing work and the absence of independent measures, single-trial analyses, and neutral-condition controls needed to substantiate the central claims. The work will be of broad interest to researchers investigating attention, eye movements, and visuomotor mechanisms.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

This manuscript describes a study examining the relationship between microsaccades and covert attention. This question has been widely investigated, with numerous studies showing that during sustained fixation, when subjects covertly attend to a peripheral stimulus, microsaccades tend to be biased toward the attended location. Here, the authors ask whether this microsaccade bias reflects a shift of covert attention or the maintenance of covert attention. They conclude that the bias is primarily driven by attention shifts, a finding that also helps reconcile the seemingly conflicting results of prior research, where the bias was questioned in paradigms that largely involved attention maintenance rather than shifting.

Strengths:

The paradigm and conclusions appear sound and supported by the results. A large sample size was used.

Weaknesses:

Weaknesses are mostly related to how the authors enforced fixation in the task, and clarifications are needed regarding some methodological details. A more direct comparison of the effect in the two experimental conditions is missing.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

This study aims to test the hypothesis that microsaccades are linked to the shifting of spatial attention, rather than the maintenance of attention at the cued location. In two experiments, participants were required to judge an orientation change at either a validly cued location (80% of the time) or an invalidly cued location (20% of the time). This change was presented at varying intervals (ranging from 500 to 3,200 ms) after cue onset. Accuracy and reaction times both showed attentional benefits at the valid versus invalid location across the different cue-target intervals. In contrast, microsaccade biases were time-dependent. The authors report a directional bias primarily observed around 400 ms after the cue, with later intervals (particularly in Experiment 2) exhibiting no biases in microsaccade direction towards the cued location. The authors argue that this finding supports their initial hypothesis that microsaccade biases reflect shifts in attention, but that maintaining attention at the cued location after an attention shift is not correlated with microsaccade direction.

Strengths:

The results are straightforward given the chosen experimental design. The manuscript is clearly written, and the presentation of the study and its visualisations are both of a high standard.

Weaknesses:

The major weakness of this paper is its incremental contribution to a widely studied phenomenon. The link between attention and microsaccades has been the subject of extensive research over the past two decades. This study merely provides a limited overview of the key insights gained from these papers and discussions. In fact, it attempts to summarise previous work by stating that many experiments found a link, while others did not, and provides only a relatively small number of references. To make a significant contribution, I believe the authors should evaluate the field more thoroughly, rather than merely scratching the surface.

The authors then present a potential solution to the conflicting past findings, arguing that attention should be considered a dynamic process that can be broken down into an attention shift and a sustained attention phase. Although the authors present this as a novel concept, I cannot think of anyone in the field who considers spatial attention to be a static entity. Nevertheless, I was curious to see how the authors would attempt to determine the precise timing of the attention shift and manipulate the different stages individually. However, the authors only varied the interval between the onset of the attention cue and the test stimulus, failing to further pinpoint their dynamic attention concept.

The current version of the experiment, therefore, takes a correlational approach, similar to initial studies by Engbert and Kliegl (2003) and Hafed and Clark (2002). Meanwhile, we have learned a great deal about the link between microsaccades and attention. Below, I will list just a few of these findings to demonstrate how much we already know. It is important to note that, while the present study cites some of these papers, it does not provide a clear overview of how the current study goes beyond previous research.

(1) Yuval-Greenberg and colleagues (2014) presented stimuli contingent on online-detected microsaccades. A postcue indicated the target for a visual task, and the target could be congruent or incongruent with the microsaccade direction. The authors showed higher visual accuracy in congruent trials. The authors cited that paper, but it is still important to emphasize how this study already tried to go beyond purely correlational links on a single trial level.

(2) The Desimone lab (Lower et al., 2018) showed that firing rates in monkey V4 and IT were increased when a microsaccade was generated in the direction of the attended target.

(3) However, attention can modulate responses in the superior colliculus even in the absence of microsaccades (Yu et al., 2022)

(4) Similarly, Poletti, Rucci & Carrasco (2017) observed attentional modulations in the absence of microsaccades, or comparable attention effects irrespective of whether a microsaccade occurred or not (Roberts & Carrasco, 2019).

Thus, in light of these insights, I believe the current study only adds incrementally to our understanding of the link between microsaccades and spatial attention.

In general, it is important to have an independent measure of the dynamics of an attention shift. I think a shift of 200-600 ms is quite long, and defining this interval is rather arbitrary. Why consider such a long delay as the shift? Rather than taking a data-driven approach to defining an interval for an attention shift, it would be more convincing to derive an interval of interest based on past research or an independent measure.

The present analyses report microsaccade statistics across all trials, but do not directly link single-trial microsaccades to accuracy. Similarly, reaction times and accuracy were analyzed only with respect to valid vs. invalid trials. Here, it would be important to link the findings between microsaccades and performance on a single-trial level. For instance, can the authors report reaction times and accuracy also separately for trials with vs. without microsaccades, and for trials with congruent vs. incongruent microsaccades?

The study would benefit greatly from including a neutral condition to substantiate claims of attentional benefits and costs. It is highly probable that invalid trials would also demonstrate costs in terms of reaction times and accuracy. It would be interesting to observe whether directional biases in microsaccades are also evident when compared to a neutral condition.

Author response:

We wish to thank the reviewers and the editors for their careful evaluation of our article and for their valuable input that we will embrace to strengthen our article. We will still respond in full when we have had time to perform further analyses, which we anticipate will corroborate our main conclusions and make our article more comprehensive. 

For now, we provide a provisional response to the major points brought forward by both the editorial summary and the public reviews. As we understood, the two main points that were raised regard: (1) the novelty and, accordingly, the theoretical importance of our work and (2) the (in)completeness of our results. We provide our provisional response to both of these points below.

Novelty and theoretical relevance of the work

Regarding the novelty of our work, we believe the reviews—and, by extension, the editorial summary— underappreciated the main theoretical value of the question we addressed. Our work set out to investigate whether microsaccades track covert attentional shifting, attentional maintenance, or both. We fully recognise that there are ample prior studies that investigated and reported a link between microsaccades and covert attention, but also underscore how other studies report seemingly contradicting evidence by reporting that there is no such link. One such example is a recent high profile paper by Willett & Mayo in PNAS (2023). Prompted by the recent hypothesis that this seemingly conflicting evidence may be due to prior work investigating attention ‘in di erent stages’ (van Ede, PNAS, 2023), we set out to address precisely this using a dedicated task that we designed for this purpose. As acknowledged by the summary and public reviews, this helps to reconcile seemingly opposing views in the literature. In our view, such reconciliation has substantial theoretical value.

While we appreciate that our reported insights may resonate and appear plausible to those working on this topic, we are not aware of any prior studies that directly addressed whether the link between covert attention and microsaccades may fundamentally depend on the ‘stage’ of attentional deployment (‘shift’ vs. ‘maintain’). 

To fill this key gap and address this timely issue, we developed a dedicated experiment designed to evaluate the relationship between microsaccades and the di erent stages of attention within a single paradigm. We did so by varying the cue-target intervals to uniquely incentivise early shifting (by having short intervals), while also being able to assess microsaccade biases during subsequent maintenance (in the longer trials). To our knowledge, no previous task has jointly examined these components in this manner. Moreover, our inclusion of two widely adopted approaches to fixational control provides yet another source of novelty. Together, we believe that these features position our work as a substantive advance that reconciles seemingly opposing theoretical views.

Completeness of results

Regarding the completeness of our results, the editorial summary points to “the absence of independent measures, single-trial analyses, and neutral-condition controls needed to substantiate the central claims”. In our view, while the raised points are valuable, they pertain to issues that are tangential to our primary question and stem from misunderstandings of key analytical choices. We consider our results complete and comprehensive with regards to the main question our studies set out to answer. We briefly clarify each of the raised points below, and will respond more elaborately as part of our forthcoming revision.

First, regarding the portrayed “need” for independent measures to define the ‘shift window’ of interest, we wish to clarify how our main analysis is completely agnostic to predetermined time windows, as we employ a cluster-based permutation approach to assess our rich time-resolved data across the full time axis. For the complementary analyses that address the ‘shift’ and ‘maintain’ windows more directly, we use a priori defined windows that are based on ample prior literature (from prior literature studying microsaccade biases, as well as from prior literature on the time course of top-down attention as studied through SOA manipulations). Accordingly, even these ‘zoomed in’ analyses rely on time windows that are empirically grounded in ample prior research. 

Second, regarding the use of single-trial analyses, we want to emphasise that single-trial predictability is not where our theoretical question resides. We start from the perspective that the relationship between covert visual-spatial attention and microsaccades is inherently probabilistic. Our aim is not to address or question this. Rather, our aim is to determine whether this probabilistic relationship behaves similarly during attentional shifting and maintenance—an issue our analyses directly and appropriately address. In addition, we also explicitly discuss how the link between microsaccades and attention is fundamentally probabilistic at the single-trial level in our discussion, and prompted by the valuable feedback, we plan to expand on this important contextualisation as part of our revision.

Finally, regarding the portrayed “need” for a neural-attention control condition, we agree that inclusion of a neutral attention condition could be informative for disentangling the ‘benefits’ versus ‘costs’ of attentional cueing. However, such disambiguation is tangential to our central aim. Rather, our behavioural data primarily serve to verify attentional ‘allocation’ at later cue-target intervals. Observing a di erence between valid and invalid cues su          ices for this central aim. We also note how inclusion of a neutral condition would have reduced trial-numbers and statistical power for our critical conditions of interest. Accordingly, we do not see this as a limitation that in any way challenges our main conclusions. Prompted by this reflection, during our revision we will ensure to not mention selective ‘benefits’ or ‘costs’ of our cueing manipulation, but to refer to ‘the presence of an attentional modulation’ instead. 

Therefore, we believe that the explicit design and analysis choices that we made aligned with the theoretical aims of our study, and that our data provide a complete and coherent test of our central question. The raised points are valuable and we will leverage them to improve our article, but they do not render our findings “incomplete” (as currently portrayed) with regards to the key goal of our article.

Future changes

Naturally, we consider the feedback from the editors and the reviewers of great value, and we will incorporate their suggestions to further strengthen our article. Concretely, we plan to implement the following revisions:

• In our introduction we plan to elaborate on the prior state of knowledge to provide a more complete context.

• We plan to add precise clarifications throughout the paper, ranging from methodological details and methodological choices to interpretation of the results. This should increase the comprehensiveness and transparency of our article.

•  We will run and incorporate the outcomes of various additional analyses that we anticipate will further substantiate our conclusions and provide a more comprehensive view of our data and key findings.

We are confident that these revisions will enhance clarity and accessibility while reinforcing the theoretical contributions of the work.

References

Willett, S. M., & Mayo, P. J. (2023). Microsaccades are directed toward the midpoint between targets in a variably cued attention task. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 120(20). https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2220552120

eLife Assessment

This important work significantly advances our understanding of the role of human hippocampal theta oscillations in memory encoding and retrieval. The evidence supporting the conclusions is solid, using both scopolamine administration and intracranial EEG recordings. This work will be of broad interest to neuroscientists and has translational implications.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

The authors report intracranial EEG findings from 12 epilepsy patients performing an associative recognition memory task under the influence of scopolamine. They show that scopolamine administered before encoding disrupts hippocampal theta phenomena and reduces memory performance, and that scopolamine administered after encoding but before retrieval impairs hippocampal theta phenomena (theta power, theta phase reset) and neural reinstatement but does not impair memory performance. This is an important study with exciting, novel results and translational implications. The manuscript is well-written, the analyses are thorough and comprehensive, and the results seem robust.

Strengths:

(1) Very rare experimental design (intracranial neural recordings in humans coupled with pharmacological intervention).

(2) Extensive analysis of different theta phenomena.

(3) Well-established task with different conditions for familiarity versus recollection.

(4) Clear presentation of findings and excellent figures.

(5) Translational implications for diseases with cholinergic dysfunction (e.g., AD).

(6) Findings challenge existing memory models, and the discussion presents interesting novel ideas.

Weaknesses:

(1) One of the most important results is the lack of memory impairment when scopolamine is administered after encoding but before retrieval (scopolamine block 2). The effect goes in the same direction as for scopolamine during encoding (p = 0.15). Could it be that this null effect is simply due to reduced statistical power (12 subjects with only one block per subject, while there are two blocks per subject for the condition with scopolamine during encoding), which may become significant with more patients? Is there actually an interaction effect indicating that memory impairment is significantly stronger when scopolamine is applied before encoding (Figure 1d)? Similar questions apply to familiarity versus recollection (lines 78-80). This is a very critical point that could alter major conclusions from this study, so more discussion/analysis of these aspects is needed. If there are no interaction effects, then the statements in lines 84-86 (and elsewhere) should be toned down.

(2) Further, could it simply be that scopolamine hadn't reached its major impact during retrieval after administration in block 2? Figure 2e speaks in favor of this possibility. I believe this is a critical limitation of the experimental design that should be discussed.

(3) It is not totally clear to me why slow theta was excluded from the reinstatement analysis. For example, despite an overall reduction in theta power, relative patterns may have been retained between encoding and recall. What are the results when using 1-128 Hz as input frequencies?

(4) In what way are the results affected by epileptic artifacts occurring during the task (in particular, IEDs)?

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

In this study, performed in human patients, the authors aimed at dissecting out the role of cholinergic modulation in different types of memory (recollection-based vs familiarity and novelty-based) and during different memory phases (encoding and retrieval). Moreover, their goal was to obtain the electrophysiological signature of cholinergic modulation on network activity of the hippocampus and the entorhinal cortex.

Strengths:

The authors combined cognitive tasks and intracranial EEG recordings in neurosurgical epilepsy patients. The study confirms previous evidence regarding the deleterious effects of scopolamine, a muscarinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist, on memory performance when administered prior to the encoding phase of the task. During both encoding and retrieval phases, scopolamine disrupts the power of theta oscillations in terms of amplitude and phase synchronization. These results raise the question of the role of theta oscillations during retrieval and the meaning of scopolamine's effect on retrieval-associated theta rhythm without cognitive changes. The authors clearly discussed this issue in the discussion session.<br /> A major point is the finding that the scopolamine-mediated effect is selective for recollection-based memory and not for familiarity- and novelty-based memory.

The methodology used is powerful, and the data underwent a detailed and rigorous analysis.

Weaknesses:

A limited cohort of patients; the age of the patients is not specified in the table.

Author response:

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

The authors report intracranial EEG findings from 12 epilepsy patients performing an associative recognition memory task under the influence of scopolamine. They show that scopolamine administered before encoding disrupts hippocampal theta phenomena and reduces memory performance, and that scopolamine administered after encoding but before retrieval impairs hippocampal theta phenomena (theta power, theta phase reset) and neural reinstatement but does not impair memory performance. This is an important study with exciting, novel results and translational implications. The manuscript is well-written, the analyses are thorough and comprehensive, and the results seem robust.

Strengths:

(1) Very rare experimental design (intracranial neural recordings in humans coupled with pharmacological intervention).

(2) Extensive analysis of different theta phenomena.

(3) Well-established task with different conditions for familiarity versus recollection.

(4) Clear presentation of findings and excellent figures.

(5) Translational implications for diseases with cholinergic dysfunction (e.g., AD).

(6) Findings challenge existing memory models, and the discussion presents interesting novel ideas.

Weaknesses:

(1) One of the most important results is the lack of memory impairment when scopolamine is administered after encoding but before retrieval (scopolamine block 2). The effect goes in the same direction as for scopolamine during encoding (p = 0.15). Could it be that this null effect is simply due to reduced statistical power (12 subjects with only one block per subject, while there are two blocks per subject for the condition with scopolamine during encoding), which may become significant with more patients? Is there actually an interaction effect indicating that memory impairment is significantly stronger when scopolamine is applied before encoding (Figure 1d)? Similar questions apply to familiarity versus recollection (lines 78-80). This is a very critical point that could alter major conclusions from this study, so more discussion/analysis of these aspects is needed. If there are no interaction effects, then the statements in lines 84-86 (and elsewhere) should be toned down.

The reviewer highlights important concerns regarding the statistical power of the behavioral effects. We address these concerns in the revised manuscript in two ways: (1) we provide a supplemental analysis using a matched number of blocks between the placebo and scopolamine conditions to avoid statistical bias related to differing trial counts, and (2) we include a supplemental figure illustrating paired comparisons between blocks.

(2) Further, could it simply be that scopolamine hadn't reached its major impact during retrieval after administration in block 2? Figure 2e speaks in favor of this possibility. I believe this is a critical limitation of the experimental design that should be discussed.

The reviewer raises an important methodological concern regarding the time required for scopolamine's effect to manifest and the subsequent impact on the study outcomes. Previous studies report that the average time to maximum serum concentration after intravenous (IV) scopolamine administration is approximately 5 minutes (Renner et al., 2005), with the corresponding clinical onset estimated at 10 minutes. In our study, the retrieval period in Block 2 commenced at 15 ± 0.2 post-injection across all subjects. Given this timing, there is sufficient reason to conclude that scopolamine had reached its major impact during the Block 2 retrieval phase. Furthermore, the observation of significant disruptions to theta oscillations during this same retrieval phase provides strong evidence that the drug was in full effect at that time.

(3) It is not totally clear to me why slow theta was excluded from the reinstatement analysis. For example, despite an overall reduction in theta power, relative patterns may have been retained between encoding and recall. What are the results when using 1-128 Hz as input frequencies?

Slow theta (2–4 Hz) was excluded from the reinstatement analysis to avoid potential confounding effects. Given the observed disruption to slow theta power following scopolamine administration, any subsequent changes in slow theta reinstatement would be causally ambiguous, potentially arising directly from the power effects. Therefore, we would be unable to determine whether changes in slow theta reinstatement were genuinely independent of changes in power.

(4) In what way are the results affected by epileptic artifacts occurring during the task (in particular, IEDs)?

To exclude abnormal events and interictal activity, a kurtosis threshold of 4 was applied to each trial, effectively filtering out segments exhibiting significant epileptic artifacts.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

In this study, performed in human patients, the authors aimed at dissecting out the role of cholinergic modulation in different types of memory (recollection-based vs familiarity and novelty-based) and during different memory phases (encoding and retrieval). Moreover, their goal was to obtain the electrophysiological signature of cholinergic modulation on network activity of the hippocampus and the entorhinal cortex.

Strengths:

The authors combined cognitive tasks and intracranial EEG recordings in neurosurgical epilepsy patients. The study confirms previous evidence regarding the deleterious effects of scopolamine, a muscarinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist, on memory performance when administered prior to the encoding phase of the task. During both encoding and retrieval phases, scopolamine disrupts the power of theta oscillations in terms of amplitude and phase synchronization. These results raise the question of the role of theta oscillations during retrieval and the meaning of scopolamine's effect on retrieval-associated theta rhythm without cognitive changes. The authors clearly discussed this issue in the discussion session. A major point is the finding that the scopolamine-mediated effect is selective for recollection-based memory and not for familiarity- and novelty-based memory.

The methodology used is powerful, and the data underwent a detailed and rigorous analysis.

Weaknesses:

A limited cohort of patients; the age of the patients is not specified in the table.

To comply with human subject privacy protection policies, age was not reported; however, we did not find any significant effects of age on the behavioral or neural measures.

eLife Assessment

This potentially important study examines the consequences of manipulating the expression of thyroxine-binding and amyloidogenic hepatocyte secretory protein transthyretin (TTR). Solid in vivo evidence from two dietary models supports that TTR production exacerbates liver injury, whereas the evidence for a link between TTR production, uptake, and calcium dysregulation is incomplete. If the findings are confirmed, they would provide evidence for a novel cell biological pathway of liver injury.

Joint Public Review:

Summary

Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is a widespread metabolic disease associated with obesity. Endoplasmic reticulum and calcium dysregulation are hallmarks of NAFLD. Here, the authors explore whether the secreted liver protein transthyretin (TTR), which has been previously shown to modulate calcium signaling in the context of insulin resistance, could also impact NAFLD. The study is motivated by a small cohort of NASH patients who show elevated TTR levels. The authors then overexpress TTR in two mouse obesogenic models, which leads to elevated liver lipid deposition. In contrast, liver-specific TTR knockdown improves some liver lipid levels, reduces inflammation markers, and improves glucose tolerance, overall improving the NAFLD markers. These phenotypic findings are overall convincing and largely consistent in two different diet models.

Because of TTR's connection to calcium regulation, the authors then assess whether the knockdown affects ER stress and impacts SERCA2 expression. However, the direct mechanistic evidence supporting the central claim that TTR physically interacts with and inhibits the SERCA2 calcium pump is preliminary and requires further validation. Whether the broader effects on lipid accumulation, inflammation markers, and glucose tolerance are mechanistically connected remains to be determined.

Strengths

The premise of the study is built on prior work from the authors identifying a link between increased transthyretin secretion and the development of insulin resistance, a related obesity condition. The in vivo studies are comprehensive, using human NASH samples, two distinct diet-induced mouse models (HFD and GAN), and in vitro hepatocyte models. The phenotypic data showing that TTR knockdown alleviates steatosis, inflammation, and insulin resistance are robust and convincing across these systems.

Weaknesses

The mechanistic studies in Figures 6-9 are incomplete. There are several issues encompassing experimental design, rigor, and interpretation that, if properly addressed, would make the study much stronger.

(1) Exogenous TTR that is endocytosed by cells is unlikely to ever find itself inside the lumen of the ER. Conversely, endogenous TTR that is produced in cells and that has not yet been secreted is almost certain to have an ER lumenal localization (as in Figures 7B and 9A, and where an apparent colocalization with SERCA is likely to be incidental). In a model where TTR, acting as a hepatokine, has inhibitory effects on SERCA, these would almost certainly be realized from the cytosolic side of the ER membrane-a region inaccessible to lumenal endogenous TTR. It is possible that the overexpression and knockdown of endogenous TTR have the effects seen due to its secretion and uptake (that is, cell-non-autonomous effects), but this possibility was not directly tested through Transwell or similar assays. Given the identity of TTR as a secretory pathway client protein, the only localization data for TTR that are unexpected are those suggesting an ER localization of exogenously added TTR (Figure 7A), but this localization seems to involve only a minor population of TTR, is hindered by a technical issue with cell permeabilization (see below), and lacks orthogonal approaches to convincingly demonstrate meaningful localization of exogenous TTR at the ER membrane.

(2) The experimental logic in Figure 8 is problematic. The authors use Thapsigargin (Tg), a potent and specific SERCA inhibitor, to probe SERCA function. However, since both Tg and TTR are proposed to inhibit SERCA2, the design lacks a critical control to demonstrate that TTR's effects are indeed mediated through SERCA2. SERCA2 activity should, in principle, be fully and irreversibly inhibited by Tg treatment, especially using such a high concentration (5 µM). If TTR's effect on calcium flux is exclusively through SERCA2, then SERCA2 impairment by TTR should have no additional effect in the presence of Tg, as Tg would already be maximally inhibiting the pump. The current data (Figures 8G-H) showing an effect of TTR-KD even with Tg present is difficult to interpret and may suggest off-target or compensatory mechanisms.

(3) The coIP data in Figure 9 need to be better controlled, including by overexpression of FLAG- and MYC-tagged irrelevant proteins, ideally also localized to the ER. The coIP of overexpressed TTR with endogenous SERCA in Figure 9D, in addition to requiring a more rigorous control, is itself of relatively low quality, with the appearance of a possible gel/blotting artifact.

(4) The ER stress markers in Figure 6 are not convincing. Molecular weight markers and positive controls (for example, livers from animals injected with tunicamycin) are missing. In addition, the species of ATF6 that is purportedly being detected (cleaved or full-length) is not indicated, and this protein is also notoriously difficult to detect with convincing specificity in mouse tissues. As well, CHOP protein is usually not detectable in control normal diet mouse livers, raising questions of whether the band identified as CHOP is, in fact, CHOP. These issues, along with the observation that ER stress-regulated RNAs are not altered (Figure S5), raise the question of whether ER stress is involved at all. Likewise, the quantification of SERCA2 levels from Figure 6 requires more rigor. For all blots, it isn't clear that analyzing only 3 or 4 of the animals provides adequate and unbiased power to detect differences; in addition, in Figure 6C, at least the SERCA2 exposure (assuming SERCA2 is being specifically detected; see above) is well beyond the linear range of quantification.

In addition, the following important issues were raised:

(5) n=4 for overexpression might not provide adequate statistical power.

(6) The error for human NASH samples and controls in Figure 1A is surprisingly small. Larger gene expression data sets from NASH cohorts exist and should be used to test the finding in a larger population.

(7) For experiments involving two independent variables (e.g., diet and TTR manipulation, as in Figures 2, 3, 4, 5), a Two-way ANOVA must be used instead of One-way ANOVA or t-tests. Also, the ND-TTR-KD group is missing - these data are an essential control to show the specificity of the knockdown and its effects in a non-diseased state.

(8) Figure 7A: The co-localization signal between TTR-Alexa488 and the ER marker is not strong or convincing, which could be due to the inappropriate immunofluorescence protocol used, of permeabilization prior to fixation. The standard and recommended order is fixation first (to preserve cellular architecture), followed by permeabilization.

Falls directly in line with Young challenging the idea that Standard English is the ONLY "correct form".

Quote: great connecting quote to link the two.

Main controversy: Made abundantly clear that AAVE is being directly targeted against when teaching Standard English to students.

Quote: can be used to clearly paint how AAVE is socially judged.

Evidence: AAVE actually stems from earlier British English, and there is NOT incorrect.

Quote: Perfect evidence to prove that AAVE has history and structure.

Directly matches my research argument on how Standard English enforcement is harming students.

Evidence: Historical proof that the unique features in AAVE are rule-based and are not "broken"

Author credibility: can be used in research paper to enforce claims.

eLife Assessment

The authors attempt to use sequencing of nascent DNA (DNA linked to an RNA primer, "SNS-Seq") to localise DNA replication origins in Trypanosoma brucei, but they analyse the results for only part of the genome. There are also significant discrepancies between their results and those from other origin mapping methods which have not been addressed, meaning that SNS-seq has not been validated for origin mapping in T. brucei. For this reason, the evidence that origins are distributed as the authors claim - and not where previously mapped - is inadequate. This work will be of interest to those studying DNA replication.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

In this paper, Stanojcic and colleagues attempt to map sites of DNA replication initiation in the genome of the African trypanosome, Trypanosoma brucei. Their approach to this mapping is to isolate 'short-nascent strands' (SNSs), a strategy adopted previously in other eukaryotes (including in the related parasite Leishmania major), which involves isolation of DNA molecules whose termini contain replication-priming RNA. By mapping the isolated and sequenced SNSs to the genome (SNS-seq), the authors suggest that they have identified origins, which they localise to intergenic (strictly, inter-CDS) regions within polycistronic transcription units and suggest display very extensive overlap with previously mapped R-loops in the same loci. Finally, having defined locations of SNS-seq mapping, they suggest they have identified G4 and nucleosome features of origins, again using previously generated data. Though there is merit in applying a new approach to understand DNA replication initiation in T. brucei, where previous work has used MFA-seq and ChIP of a subunit of the Origin Replication Complex (ORC), there are two significant deficiencies in the study that must be addressed to ensure rigour and accuracy.

(1) The suggestion that the SNS-seq data is mapping DNA replication origins that are present in inter-CDS regions of the polycistronic transcription units of T. brucei is novel and does not agree with existing data on the localisation of ORC1/CDC6, and it is very unclear if it agrees with previous mapping of DNA replication by MFA-seq due to the way the authors have presented this correlation. For these reasons, the findings essentially rely on a single experimental approach, which must be further tested to ensure SNS-seq is truly detecting origins. Indeed, in this regard, the very extensive overlap of SNS-seq signal with RNA-DNA hybrids should be tested further to rule out the possibility that the approach is mapping these structures and not origins.

(2) The authors' presentation of their SNS-seq data is too limited and therefore potentially provides a misleading view of DNA replication in the genome of T. brucei. The work is presented through a narrow focus on SNS-seq signal in the inter-CDS regions within polycistronic transcription units, which constitute only part of the genome, ignoring both the transcription start and stop sites at the ends of the units and the large subtelomeres, which are mainly transcriptionally silent. The authors must present a fuller and more balanced view of SNS-seq mapping across the whole genome to ensure full understanding and clarity.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

Stanojcic et al. investigate the origins of DNA replication in the unicellular parasite Trypanosoma brucei. They perform two experiments, stranded SNS-seq and DNA molecular combing. Further, they integrate various publicly available datasets, such as G4-seq and DRIP-seq, into their extensive analysis. Using this data, they elucidate the structure of the origins of replication. In particular, they find various properties located at or around origins, such as polynucleotide stretches, G-quadruplex structures, regions of low and high nucleosome occupancy, R-loops, and that origins are mostly present in intergenic regions. Combining their population-level SNS-seq and their single-molecule DNA molecular combing data, they elucidate the total number of origins as well as the number of origins active in a single cell.

Strengths:

(1) A very strong part of this manuscript is that the authors integrate several other datasets and investigate a large number of properties around origins of replication. Data analysis clearly shows the enrichment of various properties at the origins, and the manuscript concludes with a very well-presented model that clearly explains the authors' understanding and interpretation of the data.

(2) The DNA combing experiment is an excellent orthogonal approach to the SNS-seq data. The authors used the different properties of the two experiments (one giving location information, one giving single-molecule information) well to extract information and contrast the experiments.

(3) The discussion is exemplary, as the authors openly discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the approaches used. Further, the discussion serves its purpose of putting the results in both an evolutionary and a trypanosome-focused context.

Weaknesses:

I have major concerns about the origin of replication sites determined from the SNS-seq data. As a caveat, I want to state that, before reading this manuscript, SNS-seq was unknown to me; hence, some of my concerns might be misplaced.

(1) I do not understand why SNS-seq would create peaks. Replication should originate in one locus, then move outward in both directions until the replication fork moving outward from another origin is encountered. Hence, in an asynchronous population average measurement, I would expect SNS data to be broad regions of + and -, which, taken together, cover the whole genome. Why are there so many regions not covered at all by reads, and why are there such narrow peaks?

(2) I am concerned that up to 96% percent of all peaks are filtered away. If there is so much noise in the data, how can one be sure that the peaks that remain are real? Specifically, if the authors placed the same number of peaks as was measured randomly in intergenic regions, would 4% of these peaks pass the filtering process by chance?

(3) There are 3 previous studies that map origins of replication in T. brucei. Devlin et al. 2016, Tiengwe et al. 2012, and Krasiļņikova et al. 2025 (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-025-56087-3), all with a different technique: MFA-seq. All three previous studies mostly agree on the locations and number of origins. The authors compared their results to the first two, but not the last study; they found that their results are vastly different from the previous studies (see Supplementary Figure 8A). In their discussion, the authors defend this discrepancy mostly by stating that the discrepancy between these methods has been observed in other organisms. I believe that, given the situation that the other studies precede this manuscript, it is the authors' duty to investigate the differences more than by merely pointing to other organisms. A conclusion should be reached on why the results are different, e.g., by orthogonally validating origins absent in the previous studies.

(4) Some patterns that were identified to be associated with origins of replication, such as G-quadruplexes and nucleosomes phasing, are known to be biases of SNS-seq (see Foulk et al. Characterizing and controlling intrinsic biases of lambda exonuclease in nascent strand sequencing reveals phasing between nucleosomes and G-quadruplex motifs around a subset of human replication origins. Genome Res. 2015;25(5):725-735. doi:10.1101/gr.183848.114).

Are the claims well substantiated?:

My opinion on whether the authors' results support their conclusions depends on whether my concerns about the sites determined from the SNS-seq data can be dismissed. In the case that these concerns can be dismissed, I do think that the claims are compelling.

Impact:

If the origins of replication prove to be distributed as claimed, this study has the potential to be important for two fields. Firstly, in research focused on T. brucei as a disease agent, where essential processes that function differently than in mammals are excellent drug targets. Secondly, this study would impact basic research analyzing DNA replication over the evolutionary tree, where T. brucei can be used as an early-divergent eukaryotic model organism.

we can update the statistics using 2025 data

what is the hotspot here?

more information on the below table

The role of Puck gives Timothy a sense of liberation, allowing him to challenge societal norms and gain the confidence to resist them.

Notice here that unlike with the other men, Janie seems to enjoy the presence of Tea Cake.

This statement challenges the common idea that all information leads to power. It highlights an important distinction: only reliable, verified, and accurate information creates real power. Unreliable or unchecked information can actually mislead learners and weaken decision-making. The author is emphasizing the need for critical evaluation rather than assuming all information is equally valuable.

LiDA101

Orlowitz points out that Wikipedia is already widely used by people across all professions, including experts. Instead of telling users to avoid it completely, he argues that educators should focus on teaching critical and informed use of information. The key message is that digital literacy—not prohibition—is what makes Wikipedia useful and reliable.

LiDA101

ASU7

No video here.

The Constitution uses the Electoral College as the method for choosing the President and Vice President. This means citizens don't elect the President instead, electors chosen by each state cast the votes.

After Justice Scalia’s death, President Obama used his constitutional power to nominate a replacement in Merrick Garland.

This explains the Presentment Clause, the President can only approve or reject an entire bill. If he vetoes it, Congress can still check his power by overriding the veto.

People today still argue that the federal government is too slow and powerful, and that it weakens state governments and citizens’ freedoms.

Delete [image request] as we have got the image there.

I’ve never thought about trips like that. Some of them I can see a practical use for like assigning bus and rooming lists yourself but in my opinion switching the rooms every night might be a little more trouble than what it’s worth.

This has happened to me once or twice while I’ve taught. The students that usually have these outbreaks have paraprofessionals and they usually handle this in the school that I’m student teaching in.

In my current placement I just taught a lesson about Flutophones and as a class we came up with Flutophone etiquette and then after that decided as a class that if they can’t follow the etiquette they would get Flutophones that don’t have mouthpieces.

In my placement this semester there are a lot of students that have student proximity to the teacher in their IEP’s. To address this when I have them come to the carpet all the classes have assigned squares on the carpet that they go to.

I wonder what other accommodations Carson has in his class besides just the shoes. I also wonder if he has enough accommodations after reading the next paragraph. It seems like he might have a hyper sensitivity that is not being addressed.

Direct quote

An AI artist is at the number one of Christian itunes