- Oct 2015
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rwconnect.esomar.org rwconnect.esomar.org
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These are called ‘textural’, ‘ideational’ and ‘interpersonal’ respectively.
defininitions
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A semiotic analysis of texts looks at how words and images combine to create meaning together.
an important distinction
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three ‘branches’ of semiotics: Saussurian, developed in Europe, Piercian, developed in North America, and social semiotics, which was developed partly in Australia.
Ah, Oz! A land known for innovation! Who is Pierce, though?
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To achieve this objectivity and distance, semioticians have developed methods to help them study contemporary cultural artifacts such as products and media.
cultural artifacts
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symbolism is hard for consumers to talk about
And can vary from person to person
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women are still under enormous pressure to deliver the perfect Christmas.
True, true, true!
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21st Century women about making the Christmas meal
So sad and true.
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There is nothing quite like it for combining family dynamics, nostalgia and financial stress, to name just three of the potential tensions involved here.
As a Christmas hater, I like where this is going.
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www.marxists.org www.marxists.org
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In the internal part, evolutionary linguistics has been neglected in favour of synchronic linguistics and I have dealt only with a few general principles of linguistics.
Eager to see how this helps us read, think and write more critically. This seems pretty micro.
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It is not possible even to determine what the value of the word sun is in itself without considering all the neighbouring words which will restrict its sense. There are languages in which I can say: Sit in the sun. In others, not the same meaning for the word sun (= star). The sense of a term depends on presence or absence of a neighbouring term.
are we back to context again? No?
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The paradox - in Baconian terms the trap in the 'cave' - is this: the meaning, which appears to us to be the counterpart of the auditory image, is just as much the counterpart of terms coexisting in the language. We have just seen that the language represents a system in which all the terms appear as linked by relations.
does this mean we cannot divorce a series of symbos or sounds (a word) from our constructed (thought of, mind-picture of) meaning?
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to see how sense depends on but nevertheless remains distinct from value
separating signifier from signified.
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sometimes in one order of relations, sometimes in another.
consider context
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agn-animus: the relation involving animus is syntagmatic. Idea expressed by juxtaposition of the two parts in sequence.
Obviously.
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meant in a work on natural history by contrasting 'the plant' with 'plants' (c.f. also .'insects, versus 'the insect').
Clearly the distinction is obvious. You f**king dolt.
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emiological facts in societies. Let us go back to the language considered as a product of society at work: it is a set of signs fixed by agreement between the members of that society; these signs evoke ideas, but in that respect it's rather like rituals, for instance.
definitions
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eat class of social institutions.
connecting to Marxism
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Sound production - that is what falls within the domain of the faculty of the individual and is the individual's responsibility.
David
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he latter can be defined at the level of the individual. It is an abstract thing and requires the human being for its realisation.
you can talk to and understand your own inner monologue
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acility - w
faculty vs facility
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that there is no homogeneous entity which is the language, but only a conglomerate of composite items
pretty much sums up linguistics
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Similarly, for any given period, it will refrain from selecting the most educated language, but will concern itself at the same time with popular forms more or less in contrast with the so-called educated or literary language,
Which is why AAVE is now a thing.
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'the scientific study of languages', which is satisfactory, but it is this word scientific that distinguishes it from all earlier studies.
So what's your point, Hoppy?
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or at least none which is correct, acceptable and reasonable
Only MY definition is the CORRECT one. Natch.
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philology
Written language in historical sources
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historiacultural.mpbnet.com.br historiacultural.mpbnet.com.br
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The task of feminist critics is to find a new language, a new way of reading that can integrate our intelligence and our experience, our reason and our suffering, our skepticism and our vision. This enterprise should not be confined to women. I invite Criticus, Poeticus, and Plutarchus to share it with us. One thing is certain: feminist criticism is not visiting. It is here to stay, and we must make it a permanent home.
YES.
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the dismal sexist symbology surrounding the humanities which he meets everywhere, even in the university itself, from freshman’ classes to the president’ s office. This symbology, or whatever one should call it, says that the sciences, especially the physical sciences, are rugged, aggressive, out in the world doing things, and so symbolically male, whereas the literatures are narcissistic, intuitive, fanciful, staying at home and making the home more beautiful but riot doing anything serious and are therefore symbolically female
There is still so much of this going on today with the war against humanities by STEM majors
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Feminist criticism cannot go around forever in men’s ill-fitting hand-me-downs, the Annie Hall of English studies
So good!
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It is because we have studied women writers in isolation that we have never grasped the connections between them.
Important point. Widening the breadth of the canon.
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terra incognita
roughly: "hidden land"
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matrophobia
Pretty sure Disney had this.
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that a woman creates her identity by choosing her clothes, that she creates her history by choosing her man.
burn x 3
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the fulfillment of the plot is a visit to the heroine’s grave by a male mourner.
I like this, too!
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it is necessary to leave oneself room to deal with other things besides their work, so much has that work been influenced by conditions that have nothing whatever to do with art.
LOVE this!
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The critique also has a tendency to naturalize women’s victimization by making it the inevitable and obsessive topic of discussion
Interesting thought!
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As we see in this analysis, one of the problems of the feminist critique is that it is male-oriented.
And so it is!
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- Sep 2015
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historiacultural.mpbnet.com.br historiacultural.mpbnet.com.br
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Having severed his bonds with this female community of love and loyalty,
She's making similar assumptions to those of Howe that she argued against a couple of lines earlier!
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their daughters are all for sale sooner or later
Burn x 2
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gynocnt- ics”
I'd like to buy a vowel, please!
(So this is woman as writer vs. woman as reader.)
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From this perspective, the academic demand for theory can only be heard as a threat to the feminist need for authenticity, and the visitor looking for a formula he or she can take away without personal encounter is not welcome.
So...feminists are AGAINST getting their shit together? They don't want to formulate an actual theory (method??) because it's patriarchal?
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For some radical feminists, methodology itself is an intellectual instrument of patriarchy, a tyrannical methodolatry which sets implicit limits to what can be’ questioned and discussed. “The God Method,” writes Mary Daly, is in fact a subordinate deity, serving higher powers. These are social and cultural institutions whose survival depends upon the classification of disruptive and disturbing information as nondata. Under patriarchy, Method has wiped out women’s questions so totally that even women have not I been able to hear and formulate our own questions, to meet our own experiences.
I feel like this is pretty important, but i'm not sure that I'm interpreting it correctly. The word "method" is strongly sticking out to me as something to know. What does she mean by method? Is she talking again about the weak male characters she'd just mentioned?
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Too many literary abstractions which claim to be universal have in fact described only male perceptions, experiences; and options, and have falsified the social and personal contexts in which literature is produced and consumed.
The good old boys club seems to be missing an essential approach.
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The absence of a clearly articulated theory makes feminist criticism perpetually vulnerable to such attacks, and not even feminist critics seem to agree what it is that they mean to profess and defend.
I guess, at some point, if you're going to call it a theory, you really need to get your sh*t together.
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his terminology is best understood as a form of intimidation, intended to force
Funny how we didn't see such rude animosity between the other critical "schools" that came before. They disagreed, but I don't get the feeling it got this nasty.
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they are against feminist. criticism and consequently have never read any.
How scholarly!
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clinamen
The OED defines clinamen as an inclination or a bias. You're welcome.
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while the men stand gossiping in the sun, she is inside hard at work
Jab
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wondering why femininity requires brainwork
What in the world would a woman be trying to study here?
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thenewobserver.co.uk thenewobserver.co.uk
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The pedagogical theory, which we will examine in detail next, requires that teacher and studentwork together to solve problems on an equal footing, or at least without the teacher claimingabsolute knowledge and an authority superior to that of the peasant.
Soo...necessarily student = peasant? Hmm...
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According to some viewpoints the signal disease of late industrial capitalism is schizophrenia.
Wait...what?
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The oppressed are 'submerged', seeing themselves as things as the oppressor seesthem; they lack a critical take on their situation of oppression.
Very concrete terminology and imagery
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He notes that the possessive view of the world to be found in 'the oppressors' is necrophilic. Forexample he writes: "And the more the oppressors control the oppressed, the more they changethem into apparently inanimate 'things'".
So, not so much necrophilia as NECROMANCY, which is actually a totally separate thing. Still creepy, but not, perhaps, AS creepy.
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his distinctionbetween 'being' and 'having' as two contrasting approaches to the problem of living.
an interesting distinction.
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Any further philosophising is vaporising. But for Heidegger andothers this is a foreclosure of the argument. So - we, too, maintain, that philosophical thinkingwithout political action is valid (if of course the philosophy is authentic). We would allow thatthinking about existence can be authentic even when it is not political thinking. Freire seems toallow this but only marginally.
So, I might be wrong but Friere thinks that philosophy without activism means nothing. I think =/= I am. Thought is nothing without action? Really?
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This theory links the work of critical reflectionon the situation of oppression with action which changes that situation in a concrete, objectivelyverifiable way. Freire writes "A mere perception of reality not followed by this critical interventionwill not lead to a transformation of objective reality - precisely because it is not a true perception".
establishing unique vocabulary
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www.ncte.org www.ncte.org
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n Search of Authority: An Introductory Guide to Literary Theory or Lois Tyson’s Critical Theory Today: AUser Friendly Guide.
books
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Teaching literary theory lays the groundwork for many of the new ways of thinking we’re expected to address, from media literacy to social critique. To teach literary theory is to teach critical thinking about texts of all kinds
Perfect quote for my opener
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www.marxists.org www.marxists.org
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The existence of ideology and the hailing or interpellation of individuals as subjects are one and the same thing.
I think therefore I am? I think therefore I am subject (subconsciously?) to ideology? Being subected to ideology is interpellation?
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there is no ideology except by the subject and for subjects
Ideology can't exist without minds to think it up
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deas are his material actions inserted into material practices governed by material rituals which are themselves defined by the material ideological apparatus from which derive the ideas of that subject.
Ideas are things (ie actions) and those things/actions are what make the ISA "real" ie material.
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rom him as a subject with a consciousness which contains the ideas of his belief. In this way, i.e. by means of the absolutely ideological ‘conceptual’ device (dispositif) thus set up (a subject endowed with a consciousness in which he freely forms or freely recognizes ideas in which he believes), the (material) attitude of the subject concerned naturally follows.
humans create ideologies themselves? I want to juxtapose this but not sure how I would phrase it. hmm....
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I now return to this thesis: an ideology always exists in an apparatus, and its practice, or practices. This existence is material.
Ideas are represented by "things"
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existence of a small number of cynical men who base their domination and exploitation of the ‘people’ on a falsified representation of the world which they have imagined in order to enslave other minds by dominating their imaginations.
Wow. Cheerful.
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men represent their real conditions of existence to themselves in an imaginary form’.
Interpret ideas in ways that make them feel better about their position?
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Ideology represents the imaginary relationship of individuals to their real conditions of existence.
definition
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history is outside it,
the only thing that "exists" about it is what it leaves behind: products or actions.
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Ideology is conceived as a pure illusion, a pure dream, i.e. as nothingness. All its reality is external to it. Ideology is thus thought as an imaginary construction whose status is exactly like the theoretical status of the dream among writers before Freud.
philosophical rather than physical?
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ask the pardon of those teachers who, in dreadful conditions, attempt to turn the few weapons they can find in the history and learning they ‘teach’ against the ideology, the system and the practices in which they are trapped. They are a kind of hero. But they are rare and how many (the majority) do not even begin to suspect the ‘work’ the system (which is bigger than they are and crushes them) forces them to do, or worse, put all their heart and ingenuity into performing it with the most advanced awareness (the famous new methods!). So little do they suspect it that their own devotion contributes to the maintenance and nourishment of this ideological representation of the School, which makes the School today as ‘natural’, indispensable-useful and even beneficial for our contemporaries as the Church was ‘natural’, indispensable and generous for our ancestors a few centuries ago.
Pretty sure this, or some portion of it, is going in my manifesto.
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But it is by an apprenticeship in a variety of know-how wrapped up in the massive inculcation of the ideology of the ruling class that the relations of production in a capitalist social formation, i.e. the relations of exploited to exploiters and exploiters to exploited, are largely reproduced.
schooling (indoctrination) perpetuates the bz ideals
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Each mass ejected en route is practically provided with the ideology which suits the role it has to fulfil in class society: the role of the exploited (with a ‘highly-developed’ ‘professional’, ‘ethical’, ‘civic’, ‘national’ and a-political consciousness); the role of the agent of exploitation (ability to give the workers orders and speak to them: ‘human relations’), of the agent of repression (ability to give orders and enforce obedience ‘without discussion’, or ability to manipulate the demagogy of a political leader’s rhetoric), or of the professional ideologist (ability to treat consciousnesses with the respect, i.e. with the contempt, blackmail, and demagogy they deserve, adapted to the accents of Morality, of Virtue, of ‘Transcendence’, of the Nation, of France’s World Role, etc.).
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?! Factory-style production of worker drones of different "trim levels."
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. Nevertheless, in this concert, one Ideological State Apparatus certainly has the dominant role, although hardly anyone lends an ear to its music: it is so silent! This is the School. It takes children from every class at infant-school age, and then for years, the years in which the child is most ‘vulnerable’, squeezed between the Family State Apparatus and the Educational State Apparatus, it drums into them, whether it uses new or old methods, a certain amount of ‘know-how’ wrapped in the ruling ideology (French, arithmetic, natural history, the sciences, literature) or simply the ruling ideology in its pure state (ethics, civic instruction, philosophy).
Ah, the insidious institution of education..nay, INDOCTRINATION!
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plebiscitary
oh, isn't this a fun little word! Defined (free dictionary) 1. A direct vote in which the entire electorate is invited to accept or refuse a proposal: The new constitution was ratified in a plebiscite.
- A vote in which a population exercises the right of national self-determination.
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educational ideological apparatus.
the educational arm of the ISA is most important to keep the State going
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ideological hegemony indispensable to the reproduction of capitalist relations of production.
a function to self perpetuate
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But in the social formations of that mode of production characterized by ‘serfdom’ (usually called the feudal mode of production), we observe that although there is a single repressive State apparatus which, since the earliest known Ancient States, let alone the Absolute Monarchies, has been formally very similar to the one we know today,
Correct me if i'm wrong, but he seems to be saying that we live in a modern-day feudal (serf) system?
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but also and above all, the State apparatus secures by repression (from the most brutal physical force, via mere administrative commands and interdictions, to open and tacit censorship) the political conditions for the action of the Ideological State Apparatuses.
How the system keeps itself going
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But I add that the State Apparatus contains two bodies: the body of institutions which represent the Repressive State Apparatus on the one hand, and the body of institutions which represent the body of Ideological State Apparatuses on the other.
definitions.
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which is the ideology of ‘the ruling class’
still important to remember. still belings to the bz
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In the same way, but inversely, it is essential to say that for their part the Ideological State Apparatuses function massively and predominantly by ideology, but they also function secondarily by repression, even if ultimately, but only ultimately, this is very attenuated and concealed, even symbolic. (There is no such thing as a purely ideological apparatus.) Thus Schools and Churches use suitable methods of punishment, expulsion, selection, etc., to ‘discipline’ not only their shepherds, but also their flocks. The same is true of the Family.... The same is true of the cultural IS Apparatus (censorship, among other things), etc.
Very interesting!
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Repressive State Apparatus functions ‘by violence’, whereas the Ideological State Apparatuses function ‘by ideology’.
Wow! Ya don't say!
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It is unimportant whether the institutions in which they are realized are ‘public’ or ‘private’. What matters is how they function. Private institutions can perfectly well ‘function’ as Ideological State Apparatuses.
Not necessarily run by "the state" but have the same "status"? Level of importance?
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private domain. Churches, Parties, Trade Unions, families, some schools, most newspapers, cultural ventures, etc., etc., are private.
PRIVATE domain
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tested, corrected and re-organized. With all the reservations implied by this requirement, we can for the moment regard the following institutions as Ideological State Apparatuses (the order in which I have listed them has no particular significance): the religious ISA (the system of the different churches), the educational ISA (the system of the different public and private ‘schools’), the family ISA,[8] the legal ISA,[9] the political ISA (the political system, including the different parties), the trade-union ISA, the communications ISA (press, radio and television, etc.), the cultural ISA (literature, the arts, sports, etc.).
controlling v. contributing? I am surprised to see "legal" on this list. Maybe it's because the proletariat can get representation and ask for prosecution of BZ? *I'm using BZ to stand for bourgeoisie. I STILL can't type that.
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In order to advance the theory of the State it is indispensable to take into account not only the distinction between state power and state apparatus, but also another reality which is clearly on the side of the (repressive) state apparatus, but must not be confused with it. I shall call this reality by its concept: the Ideological State Apparatuses.
He makes a distinction between power, apparatus and IDEOLOGICAL apparatus
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the objective of the political class struggle on the one hand, and the State Apparatus on the other.
what it IS vs. what it DOES or HAS
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heir experiences and procedures were indeed restricted in the main to the terrain of political practice.
Implying that Marxist reading/CT is fairly new and doesn't yet (at time of writing) have a fully standardized vocab for that use.
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he difference between science and art is not that they deal with different objects, but that they deal with the same objects in different ways. Science gives us conceptual knowledge of a situation; art gives us the experience of that situation, which is equivalent to ideology. But by doing this, it allows us to 'see' the nature of that ideology, and thus begins to move us towards that full understanding of ideology which is scientific knowledge.
Ummm...what?
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so much literature challenges the ideology it confronts, and makes this part of the definition of literary art itself. Authentic art, as Ernst Fischer argues in his significantly entitled Art Against Ideology (1969), always transcends the ideological limits of its time, yielding us insight into the realities which ideology hides from view.
view B
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'vulgar Marxist' criticism, which tends to see literary works merely as reflections of dominant ideologies.
not "correct"
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In this sense The Waste Land is ideological: it shows a man making sense of his experience in ways that prohibit a true understanding of his society, ways that are consequently false.
Umm...a person's conception of self or their ideology can be "false" ?
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Ideology is not in the first place a set of doctrines; it signifies the way men live out their roles in class-society, the values, ideas and images which tie them to their social functions and so prevent them from a true knowledge of society as a whole.
more definiton
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No one of these elements can be conflated with another: each has its own relative independence. The Waste Land can indeed be explained as a poem which springs from a crisis of bourgeois ideology,
I guess if you want to look at it that way?
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Nature which capitalist society necessarily destroys, and which socialist society can reproduce at an incomparably higher level.
Please, please let's discuss this.
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the various elements of the superstructure — political forms of the class struggle and its consequences, constitutions established by the victorious class after a successful battle, etc. — forms of law — and then even the reflexes of all these actual struggles in the brains of the combatants: political, legal, and philosophical theories, religious ideas and their further development into systems of dogma — also exercise their influence upon the course of the historical struggles and in many cases preponderate in determining their form.
"more than class and economics" mmhm.
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in the absence of genuinely revolutionary art, only a radical conservatism, hostile like Marxism to the withered values of liberal bourgeois society, could produce the most significant literature.
there is only one right way???
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The pessimism of Conrad's world view is rather a unique transformation into art of an ideological pessimism rife in his period — a sense of history as futile and cyclical, of individuals as impenetrable and solitary, of human values as relativistic and irrational, which marks a drastic crisis in the ideology of the Western bourgeois class to which Conrad allied himself.
Guess that's ONE way to see it...evidently, the Marxist way.
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To understand an ideology, we must analyse the precise relations between different classes in a society; and to do that means grasping where those classes stand in relation to the mode of production.
ideology being the key to marxist reading
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authors' psychology.
argument against Freud/psychoanalytic theory?
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the dominant ideas of a society are the ideas of its ruling class.
another tenant
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legitimate
the word "legitimize" seems to make more sense here. I think that's what they mean.
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But the superstructure contains more than this: it also consists of certain 'definite forms of social consciousness' (political, religious, ethical, aesthetic and so on), which is what Marxism designates as ideology.
more noteworthy terminology.
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capitalist class who owns those means of production, and the proletarian class whose labour-power the capitalist buys for profit.
vocab. essential terms
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their social being that determines their consciousness.
social being = related to others = image of self
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production which correspond to a definite stage of development of their material productive forces.
production being a big theme in Marxism
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Consciousness does not determine life: life determines consciousness.
Interesting.
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Its aim is to explain the literary work more fully; and this means a sensitive attention to its forms, styles and meanings. [4] But it also means grasping those forms, styles and meanings as the products of a particular history.
context is king
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Marxist criticism is part of a larger body of theoretical analysis which aims to understand ideologies — the ideas, values and feelings by which men experience their societies at various times. And certain of those ideas, values and feelings are available to us only in literature. To understand ideologies is to understand both the past and the present more deeply; and such understanding contributes to our liberation.
Statement of purpose. Let's get closer to the "T"ruth, ya'll!
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Marxism is a scientific theory of human societies and of the practice of transforming them; and what that means, rather more concretely, is that the narrative Marxism has to deliver is the story of the struggles of men and women to free themselves from certain forms of exploitation and oppression.
Definition. Overarching.
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Marxist criticism analyses literature in terms of the historical conditions which produce it; and it needs, similarly, to be aware of its own historical conditions.
So sort of a new historical approach? History helped form the marxist worldview?
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www.plymouth.edu www.plymouth.edu
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none of the interpretive strategies at his disposal are uniquely his
He did not create the "meaning" he assigns to these words. He does not own them.
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re operative at a given moment will serve as an undoubted grou
There is really no way to divorce yourself from the meanings you assign to words at all times.
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hat I have been arguing is that meanings come already ca culated, not because of norms em-bedded in the language but because language is always per-ceived, from the very first, within a structure of norms. That structure, however, is not abstract and independent hut so
language construct our own verbal framework informed by our life experience
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_communication occurs within situations and that to be in a situation is already to be in possession of (or to be possessed by) a structure of assumptions, of practices under-stood to be relevant in relation to purposes and goals that are already in place; and it is within the assumption of tl~se pur-poses and goals that any utterance is immediately hear
so again, he's going with context being king.
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n literary criticism this means that no interpretation can he said to be better or worse than any other, and in the class-room this means that we have no answer to the student who says my interpretation is as valid as yours
Ah! So there IS a point to all this! Am I sensing a tiny bit of W&B here...or is it just me?
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ate the strategy by which
We have the ability to assess the frameworks possessed by interlocutors to a certain extent, and would likely know how "far back" we would have to go in an explanation that would get our point across.
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he did it because he could do it; h_e was able to get to this context because it was already part of his repertoire for organizing the world and its events
Had the experience to create the right context to grasp the understanding the student intended. Maybe. Probably.
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They hear it coming from me, in circumstances which have committed me to declaring myself on a range of issues that are sharply delimit
prior knowledge, context, personal lens
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that to so hear it is al-ready to have assigned it a shape and given it a meanin
You can't stop your mind from applying a meaning that makes an utterance make sense. This happens automatically and without conscious effort.
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rather, it is ,.--.... because the words are heard as already embedded in a context that they have a meaning that Hirsch can then
context creates meaning?
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no institution is so universally in force and so perdurable that the meanings it enables will be normal for ever,
Normative meanings can change over time, or WILL change as change is inevitable and nothing is forever.
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magine someone capable of h
Oh goody! Logic puzzles! Now THERE is a great way to add clarity to your topic!
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An infinite plurality of meanings would be a fear only if sentences existed in a state in which they were not already embedded, and had come into view as a function of, some situation or othe
Hmmm....I need a paraphrase for this idea.
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hat there are readers and hearers for whom the intelligibility of the question would have neither of the shapes it had, in a temporal succession, for my colleague.
Okay. Better explanation.
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t is just that .these norms are not embedded in the language (where they may be read out by anyone with sufficiently clear, that is. unbiased, eyes) but in-here in an institutional structure within which one hears utter-ances as already organized with reference to certain assumed purposes and goals.
"There's a sign on the wall and she wants to be sure 'cause you know sometimes words have two meanings..."
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Notice that we do not have here a case of indeterminacy or undecidability but of a determinacy and decidability that do not always have the same shape and that can, and in this instance do, chang
More terms. determinacy and decidability. Assertion that what we say can not always be understood by others. Sometimes, apparently, we WANT others to get the wrong understanding. Boy, that must make communicating with these people really super fun.
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either there is a literal meaning of the utterance and we should be able to say what it is, or there are as many meanings as there are read
So yeah. Being willfully obtuse or pedantic. This is ridiculously black and white way to think of things.
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The charge is that literal or normative meanings are overriden by the actions of willful interpreters.
Being willfully obteuse. Refuse to admit that there is any assigned meaning to words. ?Maybe?
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insta~ility of the text and\/ the unavailability of determinate meanings
Vocab terms: "instability of text" and "determinate meaning"
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"I mean in this class do we believe in poems and things, or is it just us?"
Existential! "Belief" in poems...
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www.american-philosophy.org www.american-philosophy.org
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To speak of any reading event in isolation is, of course, to set up a useful fiction for analysis.
But not so fast...
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In reading, the message would be represented by the author's written or printed symbols, which constitute what I term "the text." The temptation is simply to adapt the formula and substitute "author" for "speaker," [20] "reader" for "listener." This masks the fact that in any actual reading act, the author has dropped out. Only the text and the reader remain.
Interesting! Not fully rejecting W&B.
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"Something, not yet a stimulus, ... becomes a stimulus by virtue of the relations it sustains to what is going on in this continuing activity. ... It becomes the stimulus in virtue of what the organism is already preoccupied with."
Kind of like Schrodinger's cat.
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but a valid interpretation, I believe, must be at the same time an [16] interpretation of my own feelings when I read it."6
The crux of the argument.
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Perhaps because of preoccupation with the tie between the author and his creation, or the fixation on the text itself, there has been resistance to, and suspicion of the idea of the reader's creativity.
Responding to precedents
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This necessary co-operation between writer and reader, the one to suggest, the other to make concrete, is a privilege of verbal form.5
I would assert that This relationship does not imply ownership, however. The author still does not OWN the text, nor does the reader.
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Does not the reader
I just LOVE a question that starts "Does not the.." :)
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This becomes part of the ongoing stream of his life experience, to be reflected on from any angle important to him as a human being.
I really like this idea that the POEM becomes part of you, your life, your lens.
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compenetration
New word for me! Compenetration (which spellcheck is refusing to recognize) : pervasive penetration : mutual interfusion <the compenetration="" of="" two="" ideas=""> Sounds at least mildly uncomfortable...
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"Poem" stands here for the whole category, "literary work of art," and for terms such as "novel," "play," or "short story." This substitution is often justified by the assertion that poems are the most concentrated form of the category, the others being usually more extended in time, more loosely integrated.
Well that's an interesting "definition."
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irst, the text is a stimulus* activating elements of the reader's experience—his experience both with literature and with life. Second, the text serves as a blueprint, a guide for the selecting, rejecting, and ordering of what is being called forth; the text regulates* what shall be held in the forefront of the reader's attention.
In the relationship, these are the text's responsibilities.
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the fact that the reader's creation of a poem out of a text must be an active, self-ordering and self-corrective process.
Main idea - ENGAGED RELATIONSHIP with the text
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He may discover that he had projected on the text elements of his past experience not relevant to it, and which are not susceptible of coherent incorporation into it.
The danger of this approach - count on your experiences TOO much.
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particular associations or feeling-tones created by his past experiences with them in actual life or in literature
The personal history lens.
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Moreover, we see that the reader was not only paying attention to what the words pointed to in the external world, to their referents; he was also paying attention to the images, feelings, attitudes, associations, and ideas that the words and their referents evoked in him
Very anti W&B.
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hey do give us some clues as to what goes on during the active relationship between reader and text.
I like the thought of a relationship between reader and text, of being "beholden" one to another.
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Some, in addition, felt it necessary to pack in as much symbolism as possible and tried to find another level of meaning for "the sun" as well.
Ah the dreaded over-interpretation.
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the notion of inanity evidently had prepared them to think of the great drama being played out through the ages by mankind on this planet
Now they are digging much deeper to find larger connections within the context they imposed. They seem to almost have forgotten the poem itself at this point.
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having called up such a vivid notion of a director or producer talking about a play, immediately attempted to adapt this to a situation
Here, they start "bending the poem to their will" and imposing their self-invented context onto the excerpt.
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it starts like the others, but quickly makes articulate the realization that this text is to be read as a poem
Now on stage 3, the reader picks up on some of the more subtle nuances that t are present in the excerpt such as rhyme/rhythm.
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These notes reflect, one might say, a rudimentary literary response, yet they already represent a very high level of organization.
Stage 2, the reader gropes for a context which makes the words make sense. They apply their own experience/history when inventing a context.
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Two examples of the opening remarks in the commentaries reject an initial confusion
This is a reasonable first stage to processing a snippet of writing without any context at all.
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My aim was rather to discoveries paths by which these students approached even a tentative fest interpretation.
I feel like i'm being tested here. Did no one proofread this article? Are the errors intentional?
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www.plymouth.edu www.plymouth.edu
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Romance of the Rose could not, without loss," observes Mr. Lewis, "be rewritten as the Romance of the Onio
Is this the signifier/signified thing?
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e total statement has a more complex and testable .structure
Shouldn't they take a poem as it is given them and not qualify or disqualify on "testability"? This idea is insane.
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litative progress
Need refined definition
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the affective critic (avoiding both the physiological and the ab stractly psychological form of report) ventures to state with any precision what a line of poetry does?as "it fills us with a mix ture of melancholy and reverence for antiquity"?either the statement will be patently abnormal or false, or it will be a description of what the meaning of the line is: "the spectacle of massive antiquity in ruins." Tennyson's "Tears, idle tears," as it deals with an emotion which the speaker at first seems not to understand, might be thought to be a specially emotive poe
I think this is really the heart of their argument.
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today actually able, if he wishes, to measure the "psycho-galvanic reflex" of persons subjected to a given moving picture.1
LIke a lie detector? I am guessing this is a mechanical way of recording emotional response. We can do this today with fMRI technology. It would likely make a fitting rebuttle for MSSRS W&B.
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e is today found perhaps less often among the sophisticates at the theater than among the myriad audience of movie and radio. It is said, and no doubt reliably, that during the war Stefan Schnabel played Nazi roles in radio dramas so convincingly that he received numerous letters of
WOW!! Buuuurrrrnnnn!!! Suck up, much, W&B??
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most concrete instances not a theory but a fiction or a fact?of no critical signific
Are they completely writing off "experimental" poetry here? Or are they saying that that classification doesn't really exist?
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nd so a poem," says Hans Zinsser, means nothing to me unless it can carry me away with the gentle or passionate pace of its emotion, over obstacles of reality into meadows and covers of illusion. . . . The sole criterion for me is whether it can sweep me with it into emotion or illusion of beauty, terror, tranquillity, or even dis
This is the way I feel about reading poetry too. And maybe why different styles appeal to different audiences. This might be the more modern view.
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unconscious.3 They are the correla tives of very generalized objects,
Yeah. I don't even know what i'm highlighting anymore. I don't even remember what I wanted to say while I was fighting with getting this annotation to work. This is REALLY REALLY awful. Never again on a PDF!
Oh, maybe it was that I was wondering if W&B were saying they don't believe in psychology or psych conditions? I honestly don't recall now.
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s in different measures of knowledge, based on experience of the consequences of conduct, and in different be liefs." Th
Words are social constructs that are given meaning by our life experience and context.
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ne of these examples (except the utterly anomalous "Sibboleth") offers any evidence, in short, that what a word does to a person is to be ascribed to anything except
Words are words can cannot be understood to cause radical outcomes, or the words themselves cannot be blamed for radical outcomes? Words have no power but that which we impart to them? Not completely sure here.
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es." And secondly, by the fact that a great deal of emotive import which does not depend thus directly on de scriptive meaning does depend on descriptive sugges
Import, meaning, suggestion - all need clear definitions for this text. I need some discussion on this to be clear.
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ort" might have been a happy choice.
Making a distinction between different definitions of "meaning" and their import to the story/context/emotion/theory
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this is on the side of what may be called the descriptive (or cognitive) func tion of words
Word FUNCTIONS. Implied meaning vs actual, accepted meaning, vs "metaphorical" meaning vs insinuation.
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ne of the most emphatic points in Mr. Stevenson's system is the distinction between what a word means and what it sug gests. T
I think this will play an important role in understanding the affective fallacy.
PS - Annotating this PDF is a NIGHTMARE!! :(
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. Richards spoke of "aesthetic" or "projectile" words?adjectives by which we project feelings at objects themselves altogether innocent of these feelings or of any qualities corresponding to the
I don't fully undertstand the "antithesis" between the terms "symbolic" and "emotive" language
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l causes of the poem and ends in biography and relativism. The Affective Fallacy is a confusion between the poem and its results (what it is and what it does), a special case of epistemological skepticism, though usually advanced as if it had far stronger claims than the overall forms of skepti cism. It begins by trying to derive the standard of criticism from t
Here we have the W&B definition. To go against their grain, i'll paraphrase: having FEELINGS about a poem causes a critic to lose objectivity and therefore ability to judge a poem by its own merits.
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faculty.smu.edu faculty.smu.edu
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Critical inquiries are not settled by consulting the oracle.
There is no "T" truth in poetry.
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I don't pretend that I quite understand My own meaning when I would be very fine; But the fact is that I have nothing planned Unless it were to be a moment merry.
Do author's admissions to lack of forethought or unintended readings contribute or or detract from the intentional fallacy?
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had to pay in order to avoid what he would have considered muffling the energy of his poem by extended connecting links in the text itself.
Are footnotes the indication of an unsuccessful work?
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and it is a nice question whether the notes function more as guides to send us where we may be educated, or more as indications in themselves about the character of the allusions.
A good question. How import IS IT that we understand, concretely(ish?) what the hell an author may have been talking about 500 years outside of OUR living context.
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If the distinction between kinds of evidence has implications for the historical critic, it has them no less for the contemporary poet and his critic.
Different critics can have different interpretations of the same work. Some may apply the criteria of a school of thought or criticism on a text, but a Marxist reading isn't more or less valid and a New Historical one.
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It is difficult to answer argument like this, and impossible to answer it with evidence of like nature.
If a reader can provide textual evidence, as he sees it, then there is not reason to dismiss his interpretation, though it may differ from that of the author/poet.
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For all the objects of our manifold experience, for every unity, there is an action of the mind which cuts off roots, melts away context‑or indeed we should never have objects or ideas or anything to talk about.
The work cannot have the same meaning to every audience. Not every reader will know the context, vocabulary, etc to get near the the understanding of the work the author had, or tried to impart.But that doesn't mean the reader's understanding is wrong.
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There is a difference between internal and external evidence for the meaning of a poem. And the paradox is only verbal and superficial that what is (1) internal is also public: it is discovered through the semantics and syntax of a poem, through our habitual knowledge of the language, through grammars, dictionaries, and all the literature which is the source of dictionaries, in general through all that makes a language and culture; while what is (2) external is private or idiosyncratic; not a part of the work as a linguistic fact: it consists of revelations (in journals, for example, or letters or reported conversations) about how or why the poet wrote the poem‑to what lady, while sitting on what lawn, or at the death of what friend or brother. There is (3) an intermediate kind of evidence about the character of the author or about private or semiprivate meanings attached to words or topics by an author or by a coterie of which he is a member. The meaning of words is the history of words, and the biography of an author, his use of a word, and the associations which the word had for him, are part of the words history and meaning.7 But the three types of evidence, especially (2) and (3), shade into one another so subtly that it is not always easy to draw a line between examples,
This is a long quote, but I think it well explicates the fact that there IS evidence by which an outsider not the author can evaluate, judge, process and criticize a work based on elements outside the author's purview. There are actual, specific elements against which to judge a work which lead to a fuller understanding that that which may have originally (by the author) been intended.
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The evaluation of the work of art remains public; the work is measured against something outside the author.
Exactly.
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judgment of poems is different from the art of producing them.
The author doesn't own the poem and does not control where they end up. He or she has no authority to determine judgement.
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public art of evaluating poems
The crux of the intentional fallacy.
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School are interesting evidence of what a child can do.
Hmm...this seems familiar!
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ruth! there can be no merit, no craft at all, without that.
I feel that we might be verging on discussion of CAPITAL T TRUTH here. What is the Truth? Who decides?
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Then I knew that not by wisdom do poets write poetry, but by a sort of genius and inspiration.
Goes back again to being "in the moment" and whether or not an "outsider" has any (or every) right to place interpretation or judgement on a work.
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plausibility, produce an essay in sociology, biography, or other kinds of nonaesthetic history.
Do we get less out of a work being so far displaced in time? Why? Why not?
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there is another way of deciding whether works of art are worth preserving and whether, in a sense, they "ought" to have been undertaken, and this is the way of objective criticism of works of art as such, the way which enables us to distinguish between a skillful murder and a skillful poem.
Outsides forces weigh on every work made public. There will be judgment that is independent of the artist, and that aims to be independent (at least of the artist) of the the influence of others or movements.
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The beautiful is the successful intuition‑expression, and the ugly is the unsuccessful; the intuition or private part of art is the aesthetic fact, and the medium or public part is not the subject of aesthetic at all.
Criticism influenced by "movements" and its adherence to (artificial) constructs leads one to conclude whether a work is successful or not. No independent thought required.
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Homer enters into the sublime actions of his heroes" and "shares the full inspiration of the combat," we shall
We must be careful not to conflate the author with the character, no matter how grand
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and not the author's (it is detached from the author at birth and goes about the world beyond his power to intend about it or control it).
This is the second part of "that great idea."
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The poem is not the critic's own.
One of the most important ideas I have ever encountered as a reader.
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Is not a critic," asks Professor Stoll, "a judge, who does not explore his own consciousness, but determines the author's meaning or intention, as if the poem were a will, a contract, or the constitution
Another interpretation might be that a critic, an outsider who knows nothing of the author or the circumstances of compostion, has no place making a judgement on the work since she was not witness to the moment. Rather, all they can take is face value, disregarding not only the author's intent, but forgetting her own history in interpretation.
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Is not a critic," asks Professor Stoll, "a judge, who does not explore his own consciousness, but determines the author's meaning or intention, as if the poem were a will, a contract, or the constitution?
Why should I, the reader, bring nothing to the party? If I want to connect with a work, surely it is through the lens of my life, experience, knowledge, taste and any number of other factors that influence my interaction with a work. Why do I, as a reader, and my experience, supposedly count for little or nothing?
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He intended to write a better work, or a better work of a certain kind, and now has done it. But it follows that his former concrete intention was not his intention.
The "real" or initial feeling or inspiration for a poem or work can not be recaptured or improved upon by revision. We CAN make a work "objectively better" but still fail to capture the true heart of intention.
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We ought to impute the thoughts and attitudes of the poem immediately to the dramatic speaker, and if to the author at all, only by an act of biographical inference.
We should be able to IDENTIFY with the character or author of a poem. We should be brought to a place where we can be made to feel what the poet/author feels in the moments of composition
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practical messages
I take this to mean reporting or factual work.
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Judging a poem is like judging a pudding or a machine.
Subjectivity. Each critic will look for somehting different from the poem or work.
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If the poet succeeded in doing it, then the poem itself shows what he was trying to do.
If we ask for explaination then the poem/work has failed.
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design or intention as a standard by which the critic is to judge the worth of the poet's performance.
Can we get in an author/poet's headspace enough to really judge the work?
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Intention has obvious affinities for the author's attitude
But are the author's intentions the ONLY valid way to view the work?
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There is hardly a problem of literary criticism in which the critic's approach will not be qualified by his view of "intention."
Another issue of ego. Who is qualified to grant meaning to a work? Who is not?
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THE CLAIM of the author's "intention" upon the critic's judgment has been challenged in a number of recent discussions,
Ah, the death of the author! One of my favorite features of criticism! It's also one of the most difficult concepts in criticism, I think. One needs to lose a lot of ego to accept that the final authority may not lay with the author.
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