One of the things that actually is something that needs unpacking and hasn't been done yet is the role of coal. When we manufacture a solar panel, to get a solar cell, you've got to heat that silicon up to 2,200 degrees Celsius. 01:20:17 At the moment we use coke and coal. Now if we take away coke and coal, how do we do that? And there are options, but they're things like using biofuel, or hydrogen, or electric arc. And so scaling that problem up basically means it's not going to work. So when we lose coal, we lose manufacture. So what we could talk about next for example, is the true role of what the three fossil 01:20:43 fuels actually do for us. Oil, gas, and coal. Nate Hagens: Yeah, I think that's a good conversation. I just last week talked to Art Berman about what the products are in a barrel of oil. And the light things that our chemical inputs like butane and ethylene come off first, then gasoline, then diesel, then the asphalt and things. So if for some reason we don't need gasoline anymore, we still have to burn off the gasoline 01:21:13 to get to the heavy things that we absolutely do need, like the 10 trillion worth of diesel machinery in the world. So oil is going to be with us. Probably in smaller amounts, well definitely in smaller amounts. But we can't live without it at the present. So to have that broader conversation with you on the three main fossil fuels, that would 01:21:36 be a good conversation. Simon Michaux: What do they really do for us? Nate Hagens: Yeah, what do they really do for us? What do we really need? And what do we not need?

So to the people listening or watching this, what kind of closing thoughts do you have to summarize what we just talked about and to leave them to think about or apply to their own lives? 01:17:49 Simon Michaux: So I would say to them that they're in better shape than anyone before, even as scary as it is and the unknown we're walking into. And there is no one plan. So like diversity of species in a jungle environment is a strength for the long-term survival of that jungle, diversity of ideas have the same strengths. 01:18:13 So we need them all for our long-term survival. We can't face one consensus, it's just like a broad brush direction. So we've got to put these ideas out there and discuss amongst ourselves. And understand that this is very, very challenging, and none of us actually know what we need to do. 01:18:37 Even though our skills are not necessarily what we need. We're almost like a blank canvas in terms of skills. But in terms of our self knowledge and our ability to think, our opinions mean something. We believe in human rights. We have education. Men and women are educated now. So we are in better shape now than we've ever been. 01:19:04 Instead of banging on about the problems and our past failings, we should probably try to face the future with open hearts, and actually think positive with the understanding that this is going to be rough.