Adrian:        It was great. I was like spoiled for a whole month with my mom. Yeah. I reunited with my old friends here after so many years, it felt good. It felt good to be back. In a way I also felt that I needed, for some reason, just to kind of like being back here. I just needed that, how can I say, comfort? That just being with your mom brings you yeah. Feel good. Generally, it's like that sense of happiness that you ... I'm not saying that I wasn't happy over there, happy in the US. It's just like, it's a different kind of happiness when you're with again, especially my mom and my little brother. So, it felt good to be back.

Adrian:        Well, I love music. So you used to go to concerts. In Chicago, they have a lot of like free concerts during summer and autumn, fall. So yeah, I used to go to concerts. I mean, they have like free days where you can go to the museums, so I used to go to the museum. And I started meeting friends during the process, so just hanging out with my friends. Most of them were immigrants too. Legal and illegal immigrants. Well, undocumented. I think it was a great opportunity for me, being just there, just meeting people from all over the world and getting to know them was good. And in a way that was distracting for me from my daily life. So yeah, it was good.

Adrian:        Work was hard sometimes, especially when I started working for like the cleaning company. Sometimes I had to work up to 60 hours per week just so that I could kind of make it. And, it was heavy duty work, cleaning and moving machinery that sometimes is really heavy. And they gave me training, but still again, sometimes working 60 hours per week is exhausting. And you just go from work and go to sleep and then go back to work. And after a certain amount of time, you're just tired. Well, yeah.

Adrian:        Yeah. Once I started working in Chicago, I think mostly the first four years I was just working, just again, to have a better quality of life for me and for my family here. Then at some point I decided that I needed to do something else with my life too. So I started with English. I'm like, just because I was in the US, and I'm like, "Okay, you know what? I really need to learn English." So I enrolled in like the community college in Chicago and I finished the ESL program they have. So, it was good. It was a good opportunity for me to meet friends too. Just in general, kind of like be outside of my bubble of my family and work. It was a great experience actually being at school.

Adrian:        It was actually good. I spent some time in New York City and I liked it. I mean, it's a super multi-cultural city. And it felt good to be there. But, at the same time, I was by myself and my family was in Chicago. Most of my family lives in Illinois. And I just decided that it was better for me just to go with them. And yeah, my life in Chicago was actually good. I'm thankful for just being there with them. With some of them, it was the first time me actually meeting them, like my little cousins. And with the other ones, I mean, it was just like a reunion, seeing my family again. Some of them don't come to Mexico. Some of them travel often to Mexico. So we have communications all the time. Overall, I think it was good being in Chicago.

Moises:        But it's difficult, because we're all in the same situation. Some of us have that attitude like we don't care. I guess it's destructive. Just coping with other people, that. I guess it's just depressing at the same time. But the reality is it's the only thing we've got, I would say. Again, I'm grateful, but I just wish I could do a little more, you know?

Moises:        Why? I was with a couple of friends, like I said, I got pulled over, we got pulled over, and there was drugs in the car and stuff like that, pretty much. You just gotta ride it out.

Moises:        I would say... I don't know. I would say it's crazy difficult. What we're experiencing I guess is new, it's a new situation, there's not much attention. I would say, like I said, one way or another I would say we're going to change Mexico, I'm hoping for the better. One way or another, it's going to change. It's accumulating to something, you know what I mean? I'm hoping it's something good. If there's not any I guess attention, then people just kind of shrug it off. Then people like me, if they feel like, I don't know, like no one cares or something like that, then it's probably going to get worse for us and whoever else is around us. But yeah, that's pretty much it I guess. Yeah.

Moises:        I mean I think... Damn, I'm not really sure. I don't really think there's nothing much they could do. I think the little help they do, I think that's great, but at the same time, I want to say they could do more, but I really don't know what. Most of us are like, already damaged, so what can they really do? Maybe a little shelter, I guess. That would probably be the main thing, and maybe some type of, I don't know... Yeah, I don't know. I haven't really thought about that.

Moises:        Well, if I would have stayed after the fact of getting in trouble and stuff like that, I mean I would have just kept trying to improve. Like self-improvement, and just provide for my family, and just be good. Just enjoy life, stuff like that. If I would have never got in trouble, then I guess I would have just kept doing bad, kept stuck in that whole little depression and stuff like that. I was depressed before I got deported, and after I got deported it just got worse. Yeah.

for six months. All you've got to do is show that paper you get at the border, and just prove your residence and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean it's pretty easy. The only thing that's really difficult here is getting around, figuring stuff out. People are very not helpful. Everybody's attitude here is nobody wants to help each other, even with directions. It's kind of strange to me, but that's been very very, very hard. Asking people for directions, simple things like that, that are just... They make it extremely difficult.Moises:        Yeah, other than that, like I said, my family helps me financially. You know what I mean? I pretty much don't have anything, I just get by. I haven't really done nothing. You know what I mean? I guess this whole time I've just been dealing with my emotions and not being very successful. I think now I feel a lot better, and I'm ready to start making something happen, you know?Claudia:        Yeah.

Moises:        Yeah, just got out of it and just start I guess just living a little bit. I guess I'm just stuck, I don't know, just being sad I guess or something. Little by little... But other than that... Yeah, the community, like I said, it's everything to me right now. When I first got here, I would stay in the room all day and just drink. I wouldn't talk to nobody. After a while, I met others. After that, I landed in a house where they all live, and I never left pretty much. I moved in, and other than that, they've been my family. We look out for each other. Like I said, if it wasn't for them, I don't know where I would be right now or if I would still be here. I don't know. You know what I mean? It's pretty much they're like my family.

Moises:        The treatment there? I mean county, it's jail, you know? I would say... treatment I guess... I mean I can't really complain about nothing. It's jail, you know?Moises:        Immigration though, that place is depressing, you know? You hear about everybody's in the same situation, you know what I mean? You see people come in all the time, and they leave. If you're there for a minute, it's just depressing. You know what I mean? You see a lot of people in similar situations, and just the desperation. It's just a sad place to be.Moises:        As far as treatment, I guess it's a little more less professional, I guess, because it's run by a private security or something like that. There's not officers, they're not real officers. I guess they belittle you. They just tell you, "Oh yeah, you're getting deported. You really don't matter." You almost feel like that, you know? They kind of look at you like a little less. At least in jail, the County jail, that wasn't an issue, but once you get to admissions they all treat you like, "Oh yeah, you're getting deported." You know what I mean? Or whatever. It's like a joke, kind of like a joke to them… or that's how I felt. Yeah, it was just a bad place to be. Yeah.

Moises:        But other than that, it was just hard, man. My son, I don't know, and the situation with his mom, she doesn't really like to keep in contact with me. It's just hard, man, you know?

Moises:        I didn't want to do anything for a while, and I drank a lot. But now I've kind of got that under control and it's not really an issue anymore.

Moises:        Typical go to school, and just, I don't know, be a knucklehead. After my son was born, it was work. Just try to enjoy life. Try to provide. Yeah, I grew up being a big brother and stuff, so I was always looking out for my sisters and whoever I can. Yeah.

Len:        I met the people in the French Embassy, but they had their own group, so they seemed open to collaborate, but we never actually got to that. I actually for some reason think this organization might not be active anymore and that might be part of the reason why. I guess it depends because again, like I said, I've met some musicians, the first day, they seem super excited, but then when it actually comes to sitting down and doing some work, I don't get any answers. It's like, "Oh, would you like to get together and try this thing?" There were some musicians in this cohort and we did create a music club, but we got too busy with the regular obligations of HolaCode, but we did start certain small projects. So I guess it's just about meeting more people and seeing who's actually willing to be developing something.

Len:        What kind of opportunity? I don't know. Maybe participating more in cultural events. Like I mentioned, New York had Make Music New York, Make Music Harlem, we have. I was also part of this group called Concrete Timbre I was invited by my Julliard classmates and they would have theater productions, so I would be working on the sound design for them. And I guess here, it can be a little bit of networking, getting to know people that organize this kind of events.

Len:        Not really. I haven't been able to use any of my Julliard skills here. A little bit what brought me also to HolaCode was that I was trying to code music and maybe create plugins for musicians, that was pretty much how I started doing the coding stuff, and then I found HolaCode and I got interested. But so far, I haven't developed yet these plugins because life here has been busy, so I've been working instead of doing this part. So maybe once I start working on that, it could be useful, but I think it's still more useful for the music stuff I was doing in the States more than in here.

Len:        Yeah. I do think so. Well, I think living anywhere that it's different from where you've always been, it changes you somehow. You have to adapt. I mean, at first, I had some family, but it was family that I did not meet until I was already there. So I had to adapt to living with different people, then living on my own, paying for my own stuff because I had always lived with my parents, but now I had to be responsible for myself. I think yes, but I was also a happier person because as I said, I felt like I fit in better. I don't know, it also made me feel more free in a way. Well, maybe it's also because my family here is very overprotective, so there, I could just go out, I didn't have a problem or have to be calling anybody to let them know. I would tell my aunt, "Okay. It's Friday, I'll see you Monday." And she would be fine. Because we lived in the suburbs, so I usually would stay with my friends over the weekend.

Hernandez:        Oh, I'm thinking about maybe in the future about maybe going back. You know, I still think... I don't think about like it's done or it's over. Nah, I don't, we don't think of it like that because we still have people going over there, you know. We still have people all the time going over there and, you know, there's ways how they work over here, how we can get over there, you know, and so, uhm… But I want to do things the right way, you know, I want to do things the right way and be able to go over there, you know. If they want. If not, well we can go somewhere else, you know, yeah. And we also have our country.

Hernandez:        Well, it sucks sometimes, you know. Sometimes Mexico has some things. You know, it's my country and I love it, you know. I love my country, but damn, I think all the countries have something bad maybe. And then this case, Mexico, sometimes they're messing up in a couple of things, you know. But hopefully they can get things better, you know, for everybody, you know, for the whole people. Pretty much like the streets, you know, how the streets are, you know the, maybe the dogs in the streets. Something that's not cool having so many dogs in the streets or maybe the pollution and all that, you know, yeah.

Hernandez:        At first, it kind of sucked. At first, you know, at first,it was like, what the fuck? It looked like, it looked like, a whole 'nother world at first, you know. At first that's when I wasn't used to it and all that. But then after that, well, after that, everything started getting much better, you know, yeah. After I started getting situated in my town, my country, and all that, things started getting much better.

Hernandez:        I had the job and I think the job was... Well, what I was seeing, what was making enough money right there. You know, like, I was really a little kid and I was already getting paid a hundred dollars a day, you know, in cash. You know, so I think it's better, you know, that we, you know, I didn't have to go through all the... I know it's not right, you know, maybe... the paperwork and all that, but I was young, you know, so suddenly get paid, you know. And yeah, getting working, you know, in the city, I appreciate all the people that always gave me, gave me work, you know, appreciate all that.

Hernandez:        Yeah. Well, at first, well, we stay at home. Then after that, well, we had a school really close by, so we started going to school. We started going to school and yeah, like that. And then I started getting more used to it. Most of all, used to the States, yeah.

Hernandez:        No, it's not a problem. We've come here voluntarily, not because you guys, like force us or anything. But, like, I don't know. Like, I think a lot of people maybe, like, that migrate, like, in the whole world, maybe it would be maybe for most of them would be something, like kind of a little bit, like, you know, may be a little bit, in some type of way, hard to remember and to come back to all that, you know, but either way, it's all good, you know?

G1zmo 1503:        At times. I like moving into areas where I can picture, you know, the US, and it keeps me in some sort of comfort. Calm, you know? I'm used to the violence. I mean I like action. I’m active. You know? I'm active. Like in a sport way, you know? [Chuckles]

G1zmo 1503:        After… I mean, I want to go back, right? But if I have to go through a desert, I'm just going to go dirt biking and come back. Nah, I'm just playing. But yeah, I would like to go back.Tim:        And if you do go back, would you try to get a visa or do you think you'd just cross the border?G1zmo 1503:        I'll try to get a visa or something like that.Tim:        Would you cross the border if there was no other option? G1zmo 1503:        Yeah. I would, but just for fun. But nah, I mean, I want to do it right, but... Yeah, I don't know what I will do, man, but I know I'll go back.

G1zmo 1503:        Sometimes, they were assholes, but over here, they're more pigs, man. For real.Tim:        Is there anything that you don't miss about the United States? Anything that you just didn't like at all when you were over there?G1zmo 1503:        Nah, I like it all. The US is pretty cool. For real.

Tim:        Did you trust police in the United States?G1zmo 1503:        Well, they're pretty trained, man. And, I mean, I already paid my crime. They caught me about four times.Tim:        But did you trust what they were doing? And did you think they were fair?G1zmo 1503:        Yeah. They were fair.

Tim:        Did you trust police in the United States?G1zmo 1503:        Well, they're pretty trained, man. And, I mean, I already paid my crime. They caught me about four times.Tim:        But did you trust what they were doing? And did you think they were fair?G1zmo 1503:        Yeah. They were fair.

Tim:        So I've had a lot of people that say they miss some American foods and some fast food places. Are there any that you miss?G1zmo 1503:        In-N-Out Burger.

G1zmo 1503:        Nah, I didn't speak it. I do speak Spanish, and I've always spoken Spanish, but on the way back, it was just like a moment of silence. You know, a moment where you just stay quiet and all in your mind is where you're thinking about people who you're leaving behind and like, "Damn." You know? But it's crazy.

G1zmo 1503:        Well, I stayed with my family and some uncles, and my mom would work in Mision Viejo, California, as a maid, housemaid, and babysitter. And basically, I grew up in the _Anaheim area. I studied in _________ (neighborhood), and then I moved out _____ Street, right there in ________ (neighborhood).

Miguel:        I don't need to know this when someone is cheating you. That's a skill that you can learn. And as well, I learned from the States, like I said, is being organized and that stuff. So we can learn from each other. I think, at the end, we're humans. We're coming from the same place, and we're going to the same place. At the end, it's where I believe we’re souls, looking for the muse, like I said. I don't know how to say it. Like when you get your individual... is self?

Miguel:        Yeah, actually, just one thing. Like I said, the conflict hearing of  other cultures is we need to help each other. These kind of programs, I really like it, because they improve your life. It's really interesting because maybe like I said, I guess, like you're really an American. You have papers that you bring there. So for you, it's like your daily life. You don’t need to realize, "Oh, my god. I'm speaking English," or, "Oh, my god. I'm American. I'm in the United States." So for the people, they have two cultures. They bi-cultural. It's really important to know this. We can learn each other. Maybe you can learn from your skills, how to really create, or build loyalty with the people that surround you.

Isabel:        Yeah. I mean, that's a really important perspective. There have been a couple of people we've talked to who have been like, "I choose to come back to Mexico because I wanted my freedom, I wanted to be able to live my life not paranoid about the authorities or like what might happen day to day." And there's no price or value on that. That can be conversation as well as material wealth that you may have there. But then the other experiences that you can have being a citizen in Mexico as well, and traveling and that kind of thing. So that's definitely, we've heard parts of that before, but that's put really nicely. So you plan on going back from Mexico to Canada you said? What are your thoughts?

Miguel:        Here in Mexico, you really have the value. There is the difference, you know, because you told me like, "Hey, you got a BMW. You got a new BMW over there in Mexico. And you're walking by yourself." And realize like, "Oh yeah, that was a really good point." So that's why my goal is not have all that stuff —all the money and that stuff, because I already had it. Like I said, I already had it and was for me, it was an empty feeling. What I really want for my life is something else that I can’t buy in anywhere. In any store I can’t buy love. In the store I can’t buy confidence or loyalty, like I said.

Miguel:        She told me once, "You know what? I was having everything in the States. I was having a car, a lot of clothes, really good, everything. When I get here in Mexico, I value what is food, what is to be able to have a hug. I realized what is the value to be alone, what is the value for something real?" Because over there everything is plastic. Everything is money, everything is superficial. When you get here in Mexico, you realize what is really important. Have a house to sleep. Have something to eat. So that same thing is for default over there in the States.

Miguel:        They don't give a fuck. They don't give a fuck because, yeah, at some point you're their clients. And maybe you're going to give them my money because your dad is rich or because you got a good job or whatever, give it to me. I don't care. You want the drugs, I got it. What you want? So that's why I realize. I'm not going to agree at all, but at the end it's like the people over there, they really like to do that stuff. That's why it's a big industry. So that's why I realized that was the first point about the money. How it's easy to get the money. My friend told me, "You know what? If you want a car, you can work a week and you can get a car." Here in Mexico, you know how long you need to work to get a car? Maybe one year. Over there in the States, my friend told me, her name is Amy.

Miguel:        And what I realized is like I said, loyalty. When people say like, "I got your back," they really got their back. But sometimes, like I said, I don't trust anybody, but at the end, what I learned is the gang over there, it's because they know there's another big country so they can do whatever they want because they're affecting Americans, not Mexicans. They're selling drugs and doing crystal, or selling all of this stuff that affects American people. They don't give a...

Isabel:        I guess it's kind of a balance. I think, yes, you have individual choices, but also when you're so young, you really don't know what you want or what your actions now are going to lead to. You know what I mean? Like when you're a kid and you're doing what other kids are doing, or you're doing what your older brothers are doing, you're not really thinking that this is going to lead to you going to a country you may not even know when you're 18 down the line. I guess there is choice, but there's also a lack of information and awareness, I feel like also. Do they have the information to make an informed choice?

Miguel:        “You could die over there in Vegas, or you could die here in Mexico. And you still are alive, so do something. You have another chance of... let's do something else.” And he was like, “Yeah, you have a point right there because I don't want to get stabbed, or get shot or die just because I'm following the same mistakes.” So at the end, I think, it most likely depends on every person, because everybody is free to decide what they want for their lives. So for me, it's like that, it's on you, it's on you. It depends up to you.

Miguel:        Yeah. I think somehow, when you're a kid, you're trying to follow an example. You're trying to follow someone like, "Okay, it works for my parents, I'm going to do it for myself." Or when you grow up and realize it depends on you. So I don't want to say like, “Because my father was in a gang, I need to be in a gang." No, because at the end it's your decision, it's your life. And I say like, actually, that happened when my friend, because his father was here, over here in the state of Mexico, and it’s really dangerous, ____ Morelos, since the early teen years. And he was following all the same mistakes like his father did. And so it was like, “Bro, you know, you're a new person. You don’t need to follow all this stuff. You can create a new life because you have a second chance because you can die over there.”

Miguel:        I realized you know what? I just want to do my job, grow up, go to Canada. And if something happened in the middle, it's okay. But I'm focused. I got my goal, I got my goal. So I just go for it. So what I realized here in Mexico, the first thing I was, I don’t want to get stuck, learning drugs, learning anything else. You just want to go to school. And then, like I said, I studied cinematography and then just continued working.

Miguel:        So that's why as a filmmaker, as a creator, since I was kid, I was like, I need to observe. I need to watch what's happening from the outside. Then I can make a judgment. Or I can make a history. Because if you're inside, you can’t realize  what's happening, you're involved. And then, you don’t realize what’s happening. When you got on the outside. You can study, you kind of get an analysis. But that's why I prefer to just keep inside and in school, everybody know me. But I just went to school, go home and take pictures, play soccer, something like that in the streets. That's it. As a kid.

Miguel:        So that's why when I started to speak English, it was like "okay, I understand what you were saying, on a one-to-one." Or sometimes I realized where is the difference between the culture. That was the first thing because when they’re in the States, the Mexican community or Hispanic community, they are together. When I went back to here in Mexico, the people is not like that here. Everybody's fighting each other. Instead of help out each other, the people is trying to get an advantage of you. They will cheat on you, even if they're your family. So that’s happening over there in the States, but here - when you’re in the States, all the Hispanic people is like... They're more protective of each other.

Claudia:        Sure. And, do you feel like there's any disconnect from, that you have a disconnect from Mexican culture because you were in the States for so long and basically grew up there?Victor:        By Mexican culture, I mean, what would it be?Claudia:        Or maybe just-Victor:        I mean, I don't know the story of Mexico.Claudia:        Maybe not. Yeah. Like Mexican culture or just Mexico in general and then the society and the people here.Victor:        Yeah. At first, it was. I mean, till day, I don't know the story of Mexico at all. I mean, I think I know a little bit more of the United States than I know from here, more because of the elementary and stuff like that, but yeah, I guess you could say. Yeah.Claudia:        And has that translated into you? Have you had any experiences of discrimination and such for being a returning migrant?Victor:        No. I mean, not really discrimination. Not at all.

Victor:        I see my little sister every year. She was born in New Jersey. My sister hasn't been able to come. She's a resident now, but she hasn't been able to come but... Well, yeah. I mean, it's been hard. My big sister, she's like my second mom. Yeah, she always takes care of me and stuff like that. Yeah.

Victor:        In North Carolina, there's a lot of African-Americans, so it was pretty much that. The community we were surrounded by, there really wasn't any racists. I mean, I never got discriminated in any way in the United States. But the authorities… not really, I mean, me personally I wasn't scared of them. I could say my parents were, regarding legal issues, but me, no.

Victor:        Like detailed? I mean, I don't remember it because I was two months old, but my mom told me about it and I was crossed in a 16 wheeler, a trailer. Yeah.

Carlos:        I don't know. I don't think I would have probably done this. I would've probably earned an average amount, lived an average life, stayed, I don't know, different. Not like this. I feel like I'm more calm with myself here, more at peace than over there.

Carlos:        Yeah, it's pretty sad. Pretty lonely.

Carlos:        No, she qualified for the DACA, so then they came to see me, because it was my court date, and they were there. The judge was just like, "There's nothing I can do." I didn't even have a lawyer. I just went in there. Basically, I already knew what they were going to say. I was just trying to tell them, "Hurry up. Send me already." Finally, he was like, "Yeah, you're going to get deported."

Carlos:        And then I was like, "Yeah, okay, you can help me out." Then they left and they came back talking about a work program. They were like, "Oh, we can send you to this work program. This work program is going to help you. They can drop the charges and you just have to go through it. You're going to have to do this one year and then just two years of probation." And that one year probation is going to count towards that one year of that program that I'm going to have to do.

Sergio:        Cool. Did you learn it at school too or ...?Rogelio:        Yeah.Sergio:        Sweet. How would you describe your English now?Rogelio:        About 80% good.

Sergio:        Did you apply for political asylum in the US?Rogelio:        Actually I was finishing my papers for the time that I was there.Sergio:        Yeah. Do you know if asylum was what you applied to?Rogelio:        No, it was not.Sergio:        Did you become a US resident?Rogelio:        No.

Sergio:        How old were you when you migrated?Rogelio:        About five years old.Sergio:        How did you enter the US?Rogelio:        I really don't remember, but I think it was illegally.Sergio:        Just through the border?Rogelio:        Yeah.

Rogelio:        I think it was preschool.Sergio:        Just preschool?Rogelio:        Right.Sergio:        All right. Did you work before you left to the US?Rogelio:        No. My parents had taken me over there when I was small.

Ana:        I don't know. I mean, well, as I told you I really don't have bad experience except for what happens to my sister, but they were kids, they were just teasing her, but I feel like more people is cautious about it right now because they know the economic situation that we have here. But I mean, sometimes people here in Mexico can be really racist too. So, you're just like, "Oh, you really weird from there” and stuff like that. I think that they need to be more tolerant about it.

Ana:        I don't know. I think that's something that probably all of us wonder, like that's a question we hold to ourselves, but not really, because I feel it was the way it was supposed to be like. As I told you, the things that I lived there, makes me be who I am right now, but also the things that I have lived for. And I think that maybe if I stayed there, I probably have a different perception of the world and maybe not be that open to know more people or new experiences. And when you have this type of situations in your life, you know how to handle it. So, I think that it's something that actually makes you grow and be a better person. So, no, I think I wouldn't change that.

Ana:        Not really. I mean, of course the house on the neighborhood and everything, it hadn't changed that much. So, seeing my own neighbors and everything that was really, really nice. Like get to share everything that was happening on our lives in that time. That was pretty cool. But I don't know, it felt bad in a way because I wonder what would happen if I stay there. So, I don't know.

Ana:        I mean, it was great. I don't know. It was totally different because actually I was doing some jobs and not a real job, but I was doing interviews and stuff like that to people to... I don't know. I feel like getting to know another culture is something really, really good. It really opens your mind and your heart, and you get to understand a lot of things about the world. So, I was doing that basically, and I was with my family. It was just like vacation, but it was really, really nice. I enjoyed it a lot.

Uriel:        I mean just, stay out of trouble and try to stay in the States, ‘cause Mexico is nothing nice.Anne:        You think that would stop little kids from joining gangs?Uriel:        Yeah, ‘cause obviously they have no idea, you know, what their future is when they do happen to join one. But it sucks over here. Sucks.

Uriel:        Actually, I am, I'm trying to leave all them bad ways behind and try to better myself and work and, you know, stay busy.

Anne:        So tell me about being here. Is it hard to escape the criminal activity here?Uriel:        Mmmmm… I mean, like I said, I'm going to have a different mentality. If it don't happen to me, I don't care. Like, just mind your own business and things. It's how it usually works in the streets.

Uriel:        Yeah. But it really didn't last long. I got fired.Anne:        Why'd you get fired?Uriel:        For stealing.Anne:        Oh, okay. And you… you were guilty? You did it?Uriel:        Yeah. Well, I'm not going to lie, you know.

Uriel:        Well, I was working in an authorizing shipping center, UPS and FedEx.

Anne:        In school, what did you do best in?Uriel:        Science and social studies.

Anne:        And your school? Again, lots of different kinds of… Uriel:        Yeah, different races, different kids.

Anne:        Did you grow up in a neighborhood with mostly Mexicans, or was it more diverse?Uriel:        It was half blacks, half Mexicans.Anne:        So friends from everywhere?Uriel:        Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Anne:         Did you like school?Uriel:        I didn't, but I had to go, you know, because I thought about my future and how it was going to help me out.Anne:        How long did it take you to learn English?Uriel:        I think a while.

Uriel:        Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you learned English at school?Uriel:        At school.

Ruben: So I didn't like this, and what I did is I started getting this guy to clean them. I would sweep the street and I would fix it, and that's what I would tell them. "You guys cry every time these get flooded, but you guys never do nothing to fix it. Something like sweeps. Have that guy clean it up so the water can just flow" Now when I go back, they say they want me back in that block. It's too far.Just things you got to see. If you don't see it, you can't change it. A lot of these people don't see it. They just, "I'm from LA", and it's good to be like that. I was like that, but I'm a different guy. I'm already older. Things change.

Ruben: Here too, there was a lot of leaves and stuff, but I would do that because why, all those leaves they actually go down the drain. So when it rains that whole street will get flooded. I used to pay this guy that walked around asking for people that wanted the drain to be cleaned. I paid him 180 pesos and he would clean both of them, so we can have water flowing if it rains. If we wouldn't clean it and it would start raining, all that would come back up inside of your house, because the drains are actually connected to your house so if anything comes back, your patio will get flooded.

Ruben: So that's the things you got to change from them. They used to call me "cholo", a lot of them. Now they call me Ruben. Finally, after like a month, they will be like "What's your name? I don't want to be calling you "cholo". What's your real name?" "Ruben." "Oh, okay." Now they call me Ruben. I can go and have a talk with them, laugh, and that's all around here. When I lived in Estado de Mexico, it was the same thing. My neighbors, I would talk to them, "Good morning". I would sweep the whole sidewalk all the way to the corner and people would be like, "Why you sweeping in front of my house?" I'd be like, "I don't know. I felt like it, so I just swept the whole street. Is there a problem? I'll put your trash back." But they started liking it, and they got used to it, too, like "Ruben will clean''.

Ruben: I did, but then still sometimes you'd run into people that they already know you, that you didn't know they knew you. They were still looking for you for things you did when you were like 14 or 15 so that's when you react and say, "Hey, wait a minute, I'm a gang member too." I don't forget. But if anybody, nobody is still looking for trouble or anything like that, you are actually able to control that. You are actually able to do something right instead of just thinking, "Well I'll just shoot them and it will end." No. We're humans. We just talk it out.

Ruben: Why should I have to show them the difference? I have taken walks with them and these are the guys that tell me, "I know everybody here. I know what I'm doing. Nothing's going to happen to me." I walk with them and they see when everybody's like, "Hey, how have you been? Where have you been? Would you like to come in? Stay here for a minute. Are you Working? Can I help you out in getting you some job?" And they just look at me and be like, "Why are they interested on helping you?" And that's when I tell them "That's different between me and you. They're not looking to help you, because you walk around like you're going to take their wallet. I don't. I might have the face, but I smile. Good morning. Good afternoon." If they want to answer, Hey, it's more than appreciated. If not, I mean that's them. People are different.

Ruben: Yeah, I was in jail at the time when he got killed. So it was hard, but you have to get through it. Some things, you have to be strong in front of people. When you're alone, maybe bring out that little sadness in you. Me and him were inseparable. Even his mom would say, "You guys are brothers, but from different mothers."

Ruben: There's other things to do. Look, I used to stay busy. I used to go to Boys & Girls Club right after school, stay there until 7, go home, do my homework, shower, and sleep. When my membership from Boys & Girls Clubs ended, my parents didn't have the income to do it. That's when I was like, "So, now what do I do? Let me go to that park and play with those guys."Ruben: Not knowing that they were already affiliated with gangs, and that's how everything starts involving it, "Oh, all right. Oh, no. I don't want to do that. Here, man, it's okay. All right, just a little bit."

Ruben: Well, there's different things. I mean, look, before I joined a gang, I was a great soccer player. I used to play for the city. There were actually providers with some type of income, and since we were the good students, and we had good grades-Ruben: ... we actually qualified for that. I used to play for the city and the soccer team, and I was doing good until the streets started calling me. Actually, we feel like the streets call us.

Ruben: Yeah. She was like, "You better go home," but she wouldn't hit me. She will hit my friends. She would tell them that I wasn't their friend and that I didn't want to be a gang member, "Stay away from him." My friends were laughing, saying, "Man, your mom is crazy. Why did she come and hit us?" I said, "I don't know."

Ruben: Mexican parents are tough. They actually, if you don't want to learn the good way, "All right, go to the streets and learn the hard way." They might care for you, they might love you, but some of them are tough. Too tough. My mom was tough, but she never kicked me out. She actually, when I left the house, she went out there with a piece of broom looking for me.

Ruben: There's parents, or well at least Mexican parents, they're real strict. My grandfather was really strict. My mom was really strict, but they didn't push me to be a gang member. My friends, their families would kick them out when they were 13. So, what do we do as their friends? "Hey, come here, man. You can come and sleep in my house," and that will be a group of gang members.

Ruben: One is the cops. The second, it could be the environment you grew up with. For example, when I was in LA around 59th Street, that's where I picked up the little things that I knew when I was already 14, which was when I went to juvenile hall. The third thing-

Ruben: At the time we just thought, everybody was just going crazy and my mom was like, "Don't go out, they might hurt us." But we still, we really, kind of curious though, but I never got anything against them. I actually understood when basically you see the news, when they explaining, I understood their anger, but we thought that was not the way to solve it.

Ruben: I mean my best friend is actually African-America. At school it was different because they would bully us, they will try to say the bench was theirs. Don't sit there, you cannot sit nowhere. We couldn’t understand all the bad words they will say to us, but we never really pay attention to them. We just try to go day by day.

Ruben: Yeah. And it was just something really, really, really for us, scary. We had just got to LA, from San Diego so basically we tried to understand the situation. We didn't really know what was going on. We just knew it was in between cops and African American people. So it was difficult for us to go to school because we figured they either going to get us on the way or on the way back. You can hear people saying, "Go get food because there's not going to be no food for a long time." We actually never really went into no store, nothing. We just waited until it was over. Find out what was going on. A lot of people would say, "Stay inside." You see cars crashing into the gates of stores, just to get them open. Payless Shoes, I remember we had a Payless Shoes and they lit it up on fire. So it looked like a big ball of fire.

Ruben: When was this, in '90... I was in between what, 11 and 12? And it was an experience, not expected, but as a kid, you see too much violence, and cops hitting people, helicopters putting everything on live on TV. It was scary. It was like the whole world was just like going crazy. And at the time being, there were only a few lettings up in that area. African American people were actually just going crazy, opening the stores, stealing stuff, and being really violent because you actually, the next day you can find safety bags from the banks and that's kind of heavy stuff. It was an experience that actually left a shock for like maybe nine months, it took us to recover from that. We didn't want to go to school. We thought they were going to hit us.

Ruben: But I mean they treat us good. It was just little things that you know, kids don't like, but my mom, she had a daughter, her name was Gabriela, she was about nine months, but when she was born, she couldn't breathe that good. And one of the female doctors left her in the night with a baby bottle in her mouth. So she basically choked on the milk. She died. She passed away in the hospital and my mom went crazy and she scratched the doctor's face. So she figured that they were going to look for her. And my dad left, went and saved money, then they came back and picked us up.

Ivan: Well, first of all, I will thank you for doing this, for putting out our stories. People definitely need to know what we been through. So they have a bigger picture. We're not all criminals. We all have like ups and downs because we're humans, you can not be perfect. But we're not definitely criminals. We're humans, we're all humans, and we all feel the same. So I would say, don't look at us as a different race, look at us as humans because we're all humans at the end. So I would say that. That's pretty much I have to say. And once again, thank you so much.

Ivan: Yeah, because something happened they're calling. Yeah. So then I worked at acall center for a while until I found out about OlaCode It's something different and a great opportunity. So I was like, let's take it.

Ivan: Yeah, like an instrument. So yeah, that was tough. So I was like, no, photography is not working for me. So I went to a call center and that's kind of tough too because you have to deal with people yelling at you and stuff.

Ivan: One time I sat, because you have to be standing all day long. So you have to sit from time to time. And I was there sitting and this person comes to me like, "You're supposed to be taking photos," and blah, blah, blah. So I stand up again. So I was like, no, this is not going to work for me.

Ivan: Yeah. I tried. I tried. But the photography business here, it's so different. It's so different. I still deal with Mexican people, but it was so different. It was so different. The culture here, most of the people who hire photographers, they have the ways to afford it. And most of the people here in Mexico City who have some higher or really high… they have money, they're really bad people. I went to a few weddings here. People would treat me like you were the worst. Yeah. Photographers here, especially who do weddings and Quinceañeras, they get treated really bad.

Anne: So they gave you a jail sentence for that crime?Ivan: Yeah. It was not at all. I made a deal, so I could go earlier.

Ivan: Yes. Actually, I had a partner and I would work from different companies, because the photography industry for Hispanics in North Carolina started growing so much. First small business, they went to big companies. They'll hire photographers and I would work some side jobs for companies. So I was doing well. I was doing pretty well back then.

Ivan: Socially, I have a lot of friends as well, mixture; Mexicans, Caucasians, Afro-Americans, some Asians. I was doing pretty well. By that time when I went back to the States doing photography and painting, I think that was when I would say I was starting to live the American dream.

Ivan: At this point, yes I was with my grandparents. I was living in a different state. But yeah, I stayed with my grandparents for three months and trying to see if I could stay here. But I was like, nah, it's not going to work out, so I'll have to go back.

Ivan: I always thought that Mexico is my home. I always was planning to come back. Not like that, but I always planned to come back.

Ivan: Yeah. I'm actually the only one who consumes alcohol from time to time. None of my siblings, they don't do anything.

Anne: So a lot of Mexicans when they come to the States young, and especially the young men, something happens for whatever reason and they end up in gangs or they engage in criminal activity at young ages, 14, 15, 16 years old. That didn't happen for you?

Ivan: I started talking more when I went to 12th grade. I started making friends and a lot of people who like my own music and it was more so Caucasians. So I would hang out with them and Mexicans even hate me more, because I will hang out with the Caucasians and not with the Mexicans. But interesting thing is by the time I graduated, it was 50% of Afro-Americans and then 40% of Hispanics.

Ivan: This was North Carolina. And then let's say 30% it was Caucasians. And then like the other 10%, it was just Mexicans, some Asians, Middle Eastern. So we were like a minority when I first started. And I had a hard time making friends because the only people that I would get along and because of the language, it was Latin American people. But the Mexicans in my school, they're all from the countryside and I was from the city. And they think so differently. And just the fact that I like rock music, they didn't like me. Yeah. My own people. I was like, what? And I would not be able to talk to some other people, because I didn't know the language. So I was alone all the time.

Ivan: Oh yeah. Definitely. That was something interesting too as well, because the school I went to, it was mostly Afro-Americans. I would say 60% of the high school students, it was Afro-Americans.

Ivan: Yeah. So different, the school system, the education system is so different. At least they will teach you stuff, they show they care about you, you're learning something. Here in Mexico, it was just whatever, if you're doing fine, you're good. If you're not, well, we don't care about you. But in the States, I had a counselor, that was new to me. And they always looking after me, okay, so how you doing, what do you need help with? So school, it was pretty fun. It was a whole new experience, I actually started learning stuff. Yeah.

Ivan: I have six siblings.Anne: Wow. Did they all go with you to the states?Ivan: No. But that time it was only three of us and we were born here in Mexico. But then when she moved down to the States, she married again and she had more. My mom had four more kids. So I would say they're like half siblings, but they’re my siblings, I consider them like my full blood siblings. Because I live with them, I watch them grow.

Anne: And your dad, was he not in the picture?Ivan: No. He was never in the picture. Since I was like five, six, he was not there.

Ivan: I started high school. It's funny because here I finished elementary school and I went one year of middle school and that's when I moved to the States. And when I moved there, all my paperwork was not ready, so I have to wait around 12 months for me to go to school in the States because of my paperwork. By that time I, I was 14, so I cannot go to middle school anymore. So you can say I skipped middle school and I went straight through to high school. That's what happened to me. And what else?

Ivan: So I was amazed like, how could this country be like this? Because it was so different from what I was used to. I was so surprised I had a bus taking me to school. I was like, what, this is so cool. I was impressed by that. And having a good meal at school, that was surprising as well. I was like, what, I'm getting burgers every single day. That was pretty nice as well.

Ilse: I met this one guy who studied, well, he went to college in Texas, and he's working here for an HR company, but now he's going to work for Uber in Mexico. And I asked him, I'm like, "Okay, you're from over there..." He's Mexican, but he came back to work here. And he's like, "Because I make dollars here. I spend in pesos. And it's a lot cheaper. I already bought my own apartment, I have my own car, I have all this," and it's like, yeah, we can do it here, you know? It's not impossible. I'm so grateful. My commissions are in dollars, and I spent pesos, too, so it's different.

Ilse: I tried, and they tried to help me so much so I could go, but it was still very expensive. [Laughs].Claudia: So, you got in?Ilse: Yeah, I was accepted.Claudia: You were accepted.Ilse: Yes, I was. But again, I couldn't stay. And I would have gone to college, same major, that's what I wanted, and worked for an international logistics company, and do what I do. [Chuckles]. And be happy. And obviously, being close to my parents—not even, parents are obviously important, but my mom and my brother who are like everything to me, you know?

Ilse: I would have went to college, obviously. I actually wanted to go to Salem College. I don't know if you've heard about it.

Claudia: And this, I'm just going to go back for a second. Did you ever think about applying for DACA?Ilse: DACA was not available at the time.Claudia: Oh.Ilse: DACA was implemented in 2012, and I came back 2011.Claudia: Yeah. Okay.Ilse: [Laughs]. Everything happens for a reason, and I'm so sure about that.

Ilse: And, yeah, it was difficult, you know? I arrived to the US when it was still summer vacations, had two weeks left of vacations before I started going to school. But at least I had a chance to kind of accept it, in a way, and not feel as weird when I went to school, but still. It was a rough day, that one day.

Ilse: I know I was going to see my dad, but I was mad at my dad. I was mad because he made me go through all that, you know? So, my first day was so depressing. [Chuckles]. Although I tried to be happy for my parents because they were back together and because the family was back together, it was just so hard having to put up with all these changes.

Joana: I believe it didn't happen to me just because my mom did have me at a young age. She had me when she was fifteen. So, I didn't want to go through that. I didn't want to not have the experience of going to school and having friends and going out and actually enjoying my life as a teenager and just moving straight to having a kid—being responsible and taking care of him and working and still having to pay day care and everything. I didn't want to go through that. I didn't think I was fit enough, I guess. I mean, you're young. I know you learn things, and there's no book that just states it there that you have to do this, and you have to do that. No. You kind of have to experience things to learn from them. I don't think I wanted to go through that. I believe a lot of young girls go through it because sometimes, especially, I guess, Hispanics, they have to work to maintain everything—home, kids, everything, cars. So, pretty much, they get left alone and they're not taken care of so they have a lot of liberty. I think that's why.

Joana: Exactly. If they don't help us, they're not going to help an innocent animal. They'll kill them. Even if you get into an accident or they run you over, they'll go back and run you over until pretty much you're dead just because they don't want to pay your hospitality in the hospital. They don't want to pay it. They'll be like, "Oh, she died. Might as well pay that."

Joana: Not anymore. [Chuckles]. Once I get a career and I start—because right now we're in training—once the three months are over, I want to save up at least half of my money and actually donate to a shelter for mainly dogs because here in Mexico there's a lot of dogs on the streets. A lot, like a lot. Apparently, they don't help them. There's actually a lot of—

Joana: Well, since T-Tech does offer, after three months of being with them, to continue studying and working for obviously much more economical payment—it has to be related to what I'm working on. So, I might go into business or I'm still not sure.

Anita: What year are we talking about?Joana: That was around 2016. In _____.Anita: When you go stopped by I.C.E., it was in _____?Joana: Yes. The first time it was in ____.Anita: Okay. And in ______?Joana: Then the second time it was in 2019.Anita: So, it was Trump?Joana: Yes, it was Trump, when Trump was already in. Basically, he started a lot of, he provoked a lot of stops. In ____, everyone's scared until today, everyone. I see a lot of Hispanics watching out for each other. I've seen a lot of posts on Facebook saying, "Hey, watch out. There's a..." What do you...?Anita: Raid.Joana: "Raid on certain street or on certain highway. Just be careful." Everyone's always trying to help each other out.

Joana: I don't remember. That's the only thing I don't. I don't know if my brain blocked it because it was traumatizing. I really have tried to remember, and I can't. I don't know why, but I really can't. [Chuckles]. It's weird because the thing that I remember is a smell, a certain smell that when you get a cold and you get sick. It's so distinguishing that if I smell it, it'll just throw me back. I can't really describe the smell, but it's just one thing.

Anita: Are your sister and your brother children with this stepdad?Joana: Yes.Anita: So, they're Americans.Joana: So, they're, yes, yes. They're both—Anita: How do you get along with them?Joana: Quite good. I mean, they're my siblings. I cannot stop loving them. I really can't. Since I got there, my brother was around three, so it was hard because I didn't know him, but throughout time it got better. The relationship really got strong.

Joana: My dad was in ___, but we didn't have contact. My mom didn't have contact with him. He never helped me out, so it was basically my mom.

Joana: When I was about five.

Joana: Well, I left by myself. I got here with my dad. He is living here in Mexico City. I stayed for about a year and a half. Then I went back to the United States.

Noe: Yeah, one example, when I first got into my village, I make a shrimp fried rice with fruit spring rolls. They only ate the spring rolls. They didn't like the fried rice with the shrimp. They’re like, “This is the best thing that you gave me?” There is a big pot, maybe three pounds, three pounds of rice. It was decent. “No, I don't like the rice, because it's just rice.” “Eat it with the chopsticks, I don't think you guys can use it, so use a fork.” They're like, “No, I don't want to eat just rice.” “Why?” “Because I'm not a chicken.” I'm like, “Just eat it.” And now they're saying, “Oh it just tastes like garlic.” “That's what fried rice tastes like! Okay, fuck it! Just leave it, I'll just eat it all by myself.” Yeah, they didn't like it. Some of my friends, they like it, but my family, my parents, they're like super Mexican. [Chuckles]. They don't really used to a different type. They give you beans, tortillas, and pork meat, and beef meat. They're happy with it.

Noe: Because I like their culture. I've been raised with Japanese people as well, and well I specialize. Out of the ten years of the kitchen, seven years they were only for Japanese food. I know Italian, Chinese, Korean, but Japanese is the one that captured my attention. All the rolls and everything, the flavors. I know here, their palette, the Mexican people, their taste, they are not really like aware of flavors. I'm working on it.

Noe: Well, I just go from stir fry into fried, like tempura things, sushi rolls. There's a million sushi rolls that I can make. Mostly typical more homemade Japanese food—let's say like ramens, house ramens, and everything. Some products from Japan, like specifically like a, how I say? Those products that you can't get anywhere except Japan, so I'm trying to do that as well. That's one of my priorities as well.

Noe: Yeah. One of my plans is to go to the US because I have ten years deportation, so after ten years I'll see what I can do to that. Hopefully by then I'll have my restaurant at full potential and to get some chains to the U.S., maybe South America. Canada is one of my targets as well.

Noe: It's like a programming managing, it's computers, technology. After that, I'm planning to open my own restaurant. Start from the bottom, obviously, and open a small restaurant to see how it goes from there.

Noe: Yeah. It's going to be something else, but food has always been my passion. I'm planning to get my diploma on PMP. You know what PMP is?

Noe: It's to get a better job. I know call centers, they pay pretty well, more than on the street or working in construction, but my plan right now is to get on track in my studies, get my GED, get to university, get some career. Well, to get a career as quick as possible because I'm not speaking about ten years from now or five years from now, I'm speaking—well maybe five years. Ten years is too much. I'm trying to hurry up as quick as possible and get a job.

Noe: Cross the border again. Well, you know that things are getting more hard on the border. There's a lot of chances that you might not make it. Obviously, the cartels, they took over the border already. Either you pay a lot of money or you're a mule or they j

Noe: No. Not at all, due to my immigration status. It's like everything. The U.S.A. just swallow you into the system. And it's fine. It's working. The thing that you not able to leave the country, you get used to it, like, “Oh, it's just Mexico.” I was just playing. To be honest, I would never come back. I would never come back if I wouldn't have deported, so that's one positive thing about the deportation. I got to know my country, my culture. Got to spend more time with my family. If it wouldn’t have been like that, I would never have come to Mexico. Yeah, I think all the people that leave Mexico and emigrate to the US, we do the same thing. “Okay, next year, I'm going to go to Mexico.” The year goes by, and the year go by. “Okay, in two years, I'm going to try to save my money and I'm going to Mexico.” The two years go by, and it just goes by, goes by, it goes by, it goes by. It's just like that.

Noe: Cuauhtemoc, a big icon about the Aztec. Cuauhtemoc, they used to live there. There's a lot of finds that have been happening around the village. Whenever I go, when I have a chance, I go up there, and just explore the caves. I've been finding paintings, prehistoric paintings. There's a lot of culture that I've been seeing that I like. That's one thing, that I'm getting to know more of my country. Well, my family. I get to see my family more often. If I stay in the US, I will never come, like, “Ah, it's Mexico.” [Chuckles].

Noe: Detention, it's just disgusting. It's just disgusting. There's hair everywhere. Everything is dirty. It smells. The beds are hard. They give you like, a little mattress like this, and it's just plastic. No, it's undescribable. If you've never been there, it's undescribable. You can't sleep because you always have to be aware. You never know who's going to come through that door or who's going to be sleeping with you on the next bunker. Yeah, it's rough. And you get sick there. I was just sick of it. I was like, give me my deportation. I just want to go.

Noe: Hmm. Getting to know more about my culture. That's one thing. I've been reading a lot of books about Mexico. Not the culture right now, but the culture of Mexico, Hispanic Mexico. Visiting the temples, to Teotihuacan, have you been there? Those are not, they're pyramids, but it's called temples. The temples, there's a lot of things. For example, there's a lot of history on my little village that used to be home of the Aztecs.

Noe: I bet there's some people that are not able to get a job, but there's a small fraction. Super, super, super small fraction. Let's say, for every hundred people, at least only two of the people there really are disabled, not able to get a job. The rest, they just don't want to get a job. For example, those immigrants that came from Honduras. A couple of them, they get into the bus, they say, “Just give me money. I don't have any paperwork.” Dude, you don't need a paperwork. There's a food stand that is asking for a server or something. You just fill out an application and ask them for a job. Explain the situation. You say you really need a job, and you want to work, they're not going to reject you. They're not going to let you in the streets. And that’s the reason that they're asking for money like that. Just get out. Get out of here. I'm not going to give you my money. I'm giving you money to [inaudible 00:31:53] you can have a life, you can have all type of programs. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I might be a dick right now.

Noe: The biggest challenge I would say is to adapt and to accept people the way they are because obviously they're not in the US. It's hard for me to accept, to ignore them, to see if someone has stolen something, is not doing things right. It's hard to me to keep quiet. So, to adapt and to accept these people. That's really hard. Sometimes I just feel like I want to scream at people and yell at them. Just, “Get a job, just do something for your life.” It's like, “Do a job. Everybody's getting a job. Why are you jacking off? Why are you just jacking people on the streets or trying to defraud and make fraud everywhere? Just get a job or something.” That makes me mad, because I have a job. I'm paying taxes.

Noe: Yeah. For real. I feel like it's taking the manners from you. What else? Kindness. The people ask you for money and everything. They're just crazy. There's a guy in good working condition, just like, “Hey, give me some money.” Get out of my face, get the fuck out of my face, because I can't stand those people. In good, working condition, they can have a job. I got this in my mind, if you in that condition, a homeless condition, it’s because you wanted to. You have two hands, two feet, I don't see that you suffer sickness or something like that, that will not allow you to work or to have a job. There's a lot of work around here. There's work everywhere. You just have to want to work first. That makes me mad a lot. Get out of here, get out of my face, because I can't stand them. I can't stand the people. I can’t stand that.

Noe: One example from the subway, there's a lot of people that they don't care about the others. I always tell it to my friends when I get to speak about the city that when I came here, I was giving seats to the ladies, to the girls. “Hey, take a seat and everything.” The people get crowded at the door when the subway open the door, they just get crowded. Everybody wants to get in. I was like, for real, just stepping aside, just trying to let them go, and then I get in. Now? Nah. They crowd in, I go too. I have to be like, “I don't give a damn about you.” There are ladies forties, maybe fifties, they're nice, but I'm not giving my chair. Only if I see a really elderly lady, “Okay, just take a seat there.” That makes a big change on you and how you were raised. It's a lot of, the city takes a lot from you: take your manners, take your... If you're kind to people, get ready, because this city is going to change you.

Noe: No. Not at all. Never. I used to go to ___ in the morning, Chinatown, by myself. Nothing ever happened. It's just definitely a different world, I would say.Lizzy: Different world here?Noe: Different people as well. People here is just—I know there's good people, but it's just, I hate some people really. They super selfish, they only worry about them. They don't give a damn about anybody else. What can they do to hurt the other people? For them, it's just them, them, them, them.

Noe: No. To be honest, I don't feel safe. I'm always on guard, like everything. When I see people, as long as I’m by myself, and I see people getting close to me, I'm going to get just on guard. I see something you're trying to do to me, I'm just going to scream and run. [Chuckle]. I don't feel safe. I’m always aware. When I'm on the subway, on the streets, I'm always checking my pockets around, “Oh, I still have my wallet, still have my ... “ It's just a daily thing, I have to check everything. When I get out and get into the bus, I have to check my wallet. I get out, I check my wallet and everything. If you drop anything, somebody take it, you're never going to see that item again.

Noe: Oh yeah. I was hanging out with my friend. She's a girl, short girl, and I didn't really know. Those guys, they came to us with the knives. They pull out the knives. They came to me, they put a knife on my neck, and another one in my stomach, like say, “Don't move, don't move.” But as they say that, I didn't show that I was afraid of them. I was just like, “Okay, calm down. Take whatever you want. Don't do anything stupid, something like that.” I didn't want to do anything—hit back or something and run away—because I was with the girl. I was just more scared about her. She was super scared. I was like, “Just take that, just go.” Yeah, after that, there was a police station two blocks from there.

Noe: She was like, “Oh no no, I got to go. I got to go.” I was like, “You sure? Come on, let me cook something for you. You can have it for later. You can have it for to go. “No no, no, thank you, thank you, thank you.” She just left. I was like, “Wow.” And here, I already lost my wallet once.

Noe: I don't know. Maybe because I was raised differently with the U.S. culture, I guess? In the U.S., you can leave your cellphone anywhere, and even if you lost it, there's a high probability that they will return it. I got returned my wallet twice with money in there, and they didn't really ask for rewards and everything. I remember one time, a lady—a messy girl from the streets, I think she was homeless—she showed up at the restaurant, and was like, “Hey, is this yours?” It was my wallet. I was like, “Yeah. Where you found it?” “Here. There's a lot of money in there, so take care of it.” I didn't even know I lost my wallet, and they returned it. I was like, “Hey girl, just sit down and give you the menu. Ask whatever you want.”

Noe: About one year. I've been living one year here. I've been jumping job by job. Some jobs did not accept me because I don’t have the high school diploma—that's why I'm trying to get it. Luckily, T-Tech they accept you. They don't really care about the high school diploma, it's not an issue. As long as you do the job right and you know how to do the job, they'll hire you.

Noe: Yeah, and one other thing that I was not getting along with them is because they were, like with the company, they always eating the product, stealing this and stealing that. I was like, “I'm not like that, guys, for real. We don't have to. We have a cafeteria. There's cake, there's a lot of food in there, and it's free. You guys can eat everything from there. I don't see the reason why you guys have to eat the product or eat the things. Sometimes we short for the customers because you guys eating it. I'm not taking that.” Also, there's quite a few situations that I went through that the customer forgot their cell phones on the table, on the bar, on the sushi bar, what everything. They just look each other, trying to think what to do. You don’t have to deal with it, you have to return to the customer! The customer's still at the door. It’s like, “What are you guys thinking about?”

Noe: They might be embarrassed or they might feel like I was trying to make them less or something. That was not my intention. I was trying to help. I was not being rude. I was not just like using rude words like, “Hey, you have to say like this, not say like that,” or something like that, trying to yell at people. No. It's the opposite because I was always telling them, “If you need help with any words, any pronunciation, just let me know. I'm here for you guys to help you out.” They didn't take it like that.

Noe: Yeah, they got mad at me. And I was like, “Well okay now guys, eff you, I'm not helping you anymore.” I only stayed there for three months. I can't do this, because everyone was just complaining about me. Well, I guess I was just trying to be nice, but they don't see it that way.

Noe: About my coworkers. They really help you out. They know how to talk to you. We connect really well. That's why I feel okay. I feel like in high school over there. We get along each other, we joke each other. There’s no… a lot of people speak English better than me, like, “Go eff yourself.”Noe: My profession was to be a chef, so I was trying to look for chef jobs around here. I've found a few of them, but I was just harassed. I don't know. In my department, on the hotel I was working as a chef, I was the only bilingual, not even the servers. The waiters, servers, hosts, they didn't know how to speak English. Sometimes, I was trying to be nice with them and trying to help them out, translate, because there's a lot of white people coming in there. It's like 80% of the customers, they're white—that's the only people with money. Sometimes I notice that they are having trouble trying to understand the customer, and I was just trying to be nice [Chuckle], and trying to help them out, translate what they want or what their allergies and everything. Instead of thanking me for doing that for them, they was just complaining about me.

Noe: I felt like an outsider. Yeah, definitely an outsider. Well, literally, you don't know what to do there. You don't know how they are. Even you if try to adapt to the living in there, it's hard. They'll see you and they'll just reject you, because “Oh, you didn't have an answer,” or you didn't know how to speak correctly or formal with them. They'll just get mad at that. That's one of the reasons I decided to come to the city. I was like, “No, I'm not staying here.”

Noe: [Exhale]. It was just awful. As I say, nobody knew me. I didn't know nobody besides my family, my close friends and family, close family. Besides my neighbors, they didn't know who I was. I didn't know who they were—well yeah, the old people, but not, for example, if there was kids five years old, they were almost twenty-five by then. I was like, “No.” It was exciting getting to know more people.

Noe: They say they from the government and they have a little logo, a Mexico logo, so I was like, “Okay. I'm going to just go with them. Whatever happens is going to happen.” They give you access to computers to communicate with your family and everything. That's when I got in contact with my brother. I was just like, “Send me some money here. I'm going to need for my bus ride at least.” Then one of the guys heard me: “Hey, where did you say you were from?” I'm like, “I'm from Guerrero.” “Oh, Guerrero, I think Guerrero have some programs about immigrants from their state. It’s their people, and they take care of them.” Yeah, if you're an immigrant from my state like Guerrero, and you were born there, they will pay you. If you get deported, they will pay you the trip. You submit an application, and not even five minutes, they will be answering you with the approve—well, the bus will have to take you to Guerrero.

Noe: No, not really. Luckily, I got welcomed by this group of people—the one I mentioned. They literally just went, “Okay, where are you going?” I'm like, “Oh, I'm going to Guerrero.” “Okay, so listen. We are from the Mexican government. We here to assist you and help with everything that you might need.” I was like, “Okay.” “Just come with us.” it was a little scary because they say, “Okay, just come with us,” and they just take you around the building. You don't even know, what other choice do you have? You either stay with them or just stay in the street?

Noe: I was a little scared, a little excited about a new thing, but I was just thinking too much—like I don't have money, where am I going to go? What I going to do? There was a lot of rumors about the cartels recruiting immigrants as soon as you cross the bridge; they going to make you get into a car, and they going to take you from there. If you with them or not, they going to kill you. I was just looking around like, “Where's the car? Where's the car?” [Chuckles].

Noe: Yeah. I will never forget that. They just gave you this small bag with your belongs, [Chuckles] which is like clothes from jail, so they're not really good. They give you small needs, like a bag with needs, with everything. They just release you. They take all the chains off. They're just like, “Get off the bus, walk across the bridge.” That's it. Well, you had to cross it. [Chuckle]. What other choice do you have?

Noe: When I got deported. [Chuckles]. When I got deported, I got released on… What's it called? Nuevo Laredo, it's like the Texas border. I got released over there, and then I called my brother because he owes me money. I called him just to tell him I'm here in Nuevo Laredo. Send me some money because I got to come home. [Chuckles]. Well, yeah, that's how they found out I got deported. I'm pretty sure they would’ve helped me; they gave me some money. But after that, no. That's when I got here.

Noe: No. I was just by myself. My only family, they all stay in California, and I was by myself in ____, Iowa. I didn't really want to call them, because they say [inaudible] They were never going to support me.Lizzy: They wouldn't support you?Noe: No.Lizzy: Can you tell me more about that? They wouldn't support you in terms of that they would be upset with you, or just that they wouldn't help you?Noe: I think they would help me, but they would be disappointed of me. They'd say, “Why you do this?” or something like that. I rather not to call them or tell them about...Lizzy: They didn't know that you were detained?Noe: No, they didn't know.

Noe: Yeah there was a lot of hunger in there. You can't save food either. Cause I remember we used to save the peanut butter sandwich to keep it for later on, for late night, so we wouldn't get hungry. They would search you so if they found you everything that's ... They will penalize you, either with the hole and everything, or twenty-four hours locked in. It's kind of hard.

Noe: It's just gross. The portions are none literally. Sometimes they give you rotten milk—just little boxes, like little milk boxes, like a little carton thing. Yeah, so sometimes there's hair in the food. Sometimes it's just the portions, literally, they just like shoved in like a half of a spoon, just throw it in there. What else besides the hair..?

Noe: Not bad, but they always intimidating, like trying to ... It's like you are in jail, I guess. They don't want anyone to feel that they can make whatever they want with them, or trying to intimidate the [inaudible], or any other type of misconduct, I would say.

Lizzy: You weren't the driver?Noe: I wasn't the driver, no.Lizzy: Your friend was arrested for reckless driving, and what was your charge?Noe: We charged for… Because that guy had an open container. It wasn't a beer, but it was just a small glass from the bar that he took. They decided to charge us both with open container. When I got into—well they just detained me. Well, they scanned me literally, they run all my information, they didn't find any social security number. That's how they called ICE. ICE literally detained me for about a month before I decided to sign on my deportation because I was sick of the jail. I was just tired and everything. I speak to the judge once, “Okay, we'll see you for the next court.” I was like, “No.” I was so sick already because I spent in County for about four months as I remember, and then one more month with ICE. I was just sick of it. I was like, “No, I just want to go.”

Lizzy: Let's back up just a little bit to what led to you getting deported.Noe: I was just having a good time with a friend. I was not the driver. First, we got detained for swinging lines.Lizzy: What?Noe: Swinging lines, like roughly driving, like reckless driving. Well, we were kind of a little bit of drinking. They were like, “Okay, drinking and driving.” I was like, “Oh well.” I thought I was not going to get arrested, but the people decide to arrest me.

Noe: Yeah, the community college. It was one year and a half only, but it was only in generals before I decided what to do. I was undecided between being a dentist or a medical assistant. I was just going to generals before I decide, and I was making my own investigation about salaries—first priority was money, then timing, and then work bills and everything around the community. Luckily, I didn't get to really get into the college about my major. Well, after I return, I came to my small village—

Noe: Well, to get me into, how you say, the living style over there. I adapted very well. I graduate, I start moving by myself. I move into my own apartment. My own connections. After that, I became a chef. It was a little bit of an expert on the kitchen. I got an offer, a job offer, from Iowa about a restaurant opening. They offered me a pretty good salary, and I didn't have to pay rent, so I didn't think twice about moving out there. I opened the restaurant. They were really happy with my work. They were doing very well. I set up everything right.

Noe: I was fifteen. Yeah, you're not sixteen, I think, you cannot work over there. I was just having a little, small part-time. After that I went to ___ High School. I went there and after I moved to ____, which is, I got my GED from there. Well, it was just fine. I was growing up, making friends and everything. I got used to the city. I got used to, how can I say? Literally, the U.S., it swallowed me right away. [Chuckle].

Lizzy: Do you have a favorite memory or a least favorite memory of your childhood?Noe: I was born in a city called Tasco. Actually, my parents, they're from a small village around thirty minutes from the city. The village is really small. As I remember, we used to have dirt houses, small dirt houses. What else? We didn't have any… Like the roads, it's like dust and ground, like raw ground roads. What else? I remember that the people, they used to were more kind. it was just love everywhere in my childhood. I used to be shepherd, I used to have a sheep. I used to go to the mountains with my sheeps, trying to feed them and everything. I used to have one small cow. I used to have two horses and everything. After I immigrate to the US with none English, I went there, live with my brother first, and I started went to school, and started looking for a job actually. I was underage, so my parents have to sign off the sheet for me to get a job.

Anne: It's nice that your company will help out with school.Carolina: Yeah, it is. It's a really good company.Anne: So how many more semesters in high school?Carolina: I need four more. It'd be two more years.Anne: And then?Carolina: And then just college.Anne: University and college. So that's wonderful. So is there anything you want to say about your experiences in the US and coming back to Mexico before we end? Anything you want to share that you haven't said?

Carolina: No. I just wish people would be different and not be so racist. I mean, we live through the same thing. We're all human, and it's like we're going to eventually need something from one another.

Anne: You want to become a doctor and then become a surgeon?

Anne: Are you still in contact with any of your friends from there?Carolina: I am. I have this friend, well, she's my mom's friend. She's really popular there, because she was with the DACA and everything. Her name was Rosa Velazquez. Yeah. So she was really into all the politics and stuff. She went to Washington and everything. We were in contact with her, and well, my friends from school.

Anne: So what do you do in a hog farm? I'm sorry. I never worked at one.Carolina: Well, we were working for the company, Cargill.Anne: Which one?Carolina: The Cargill, that was the company. And we had to breed the hogs. We got to experience births, give them their shots, process them, and they would eventually leave.

Carolina: I live in Mexico City.Anne: And you live with other relatives besides just your mom?Carolina: My grandma.Anne: Your grandma. So her mother?Carolina: Yes.Anne: Oh, the one who raised you?Carolina: Yes, the one who raised me.Anne: So that must have been nice to see her.

Anne: What was home life like?Carolina: My mom spent most of her time working so we could have better things, we could have something better than she did. So she spent most of her time working. So we stayed at home most of the time alone. And on weekends we would go out.Anne: Did you feel like you were taking care of your siblings a lot?Carolina: No, not really.Anne: So when you first w

Carolina: There was one teacher who didn't like me. I don't know if it was because of my race or something, because with everybody else she was really cool. If they didn't have their work done, she would just pass them. And if I didn't do my work right, she would put a bad grade on my work and she wouldn't tell me why. Or I would do my homework and they wouldn't, and yet I would still have a bad grade.

Anne: So you enjoyed elementary school though?Carolina: I enjoyed elementary.Anne: You had friends?Carolina: I did.

Anne: And you were living with your mother?Carolina: I was living with my mom.Anne: Anyone else? You have siblings?Carolina: I do. With my siblings, my mom.Anne: Older or younger siblings?Carolina: They were younger. But since they were born there, it wasn't really a problem. But since I was an immigrant, that's what led them to say all those things.

Anne: I see. What kind of sickness did you have?Carolina: I don't really remember. I don't really remember.Anne: But you're well now.Carolina: I'm healthy.

Cuauhtémoc : Because they feel sometimes outshined or they feel that we have a superiority complex, and we do have a superiority complex. Because this is a number one complaint that I've gotten from people after getting feedback. You guys feel you're the shit. You guys feel you're superior. You guys feel you're all that because you've been in the States. And I did. I actually did. It's not a lie. In my case, when I came back, I'm like, man, my ego was way up there, although I was depressed I used to feel I was the shit because one, where do I come from? I used to have a lot of money. I used to have people under my control. At one point I had 200 people under my power and control. I actually came feeling pretty freaking hard, you know, I felt hard.Cuauhtémoc : I felt powerful because I had people under my power, and you get over here and you know what? People will try to talk down on me. I'm like, “You know where I come from? You know what I've been through? You know who you're talking to?” That's the vibe I gave off. People used to tell me, you know what, when you got here, you used to feel you were this big shit, you used to feel you were running the show when in reality you had nothing. You were nobody. And that's true. I was nobody and I had nothing. I thought about, I'm like, you're right. I'm nothing and I have nobody, where are my houses? Where's the money? Where's everything. Back home and they're my mother's things not mine.Cuauhtémoc : I had a car but I crashed it. That made me think and I'm like, these guys are actually right. We do come back thinking we're all that. Most of us do because I know most of us were in gangs. Most of us had something going on. We had a lot of money, we had cars so when you come over here, and I actually had this problem once where you got people from Polanco and nice parts thinking they're the shit and they're like, wait a minute, you just barely have this tiny thing and you feel you're all that and I had way more than you, so then you start realizing I used to be like that. I used to feel I was this big powerful person. But in reality I was nobody. That helped me have some retro analysis and retrospective retro analysis. I'm like, do you know what, these guys are right.Cuauhtémoc : I came with a super big ego over here thinking, I'm all cool I'm this super cool guy this and that so I just humbled down a lot. It helped me humble down and I'm like, I've got to be more careful about that because that's why people be hating on pochos because we think we're the shit. Maybe not all of us, but I know a good majority. If we were in gangs, we clash a lot with people like, "What the hell are you looking at? What you looking at man?" That's the typical response you get from a pocho because we're also taught in prison to be very aggressive. We come from prison, we don't come from Disneyland, we were in the system.Cuauhtémoc : We were very aggressive. We like to eat people just with the stare. So if you see people dogging you, you're going to dog ‘em back and you're like, "What the hell are you looking at?" It's a defensive mechanism that we have. We're not in prison anymore, but we feel we've got to still be protective of ourselves because we're exposed. We're very much exposed because we speak English. People be kidnapping us because they think that we have a lot of money, so we have that vibe towards those to that we got to protect ourselves. I let that go and I'm very friendly now. I smile at people. I speak English in the streets too, but I do it more like, you know, and if people look at me, I just smile at them and let them know that I'm not here to hurt anybody, that I'm not here to fight anybody.Cuauhtémoc : So my vibe that I throw out is different now. But it took me years to learn to calm down because when I first got here, I was on the defensive 24/7 because I just came out of jail. It's not easy just reincorporating into a society that right off the bat doesn't like you.Claudia: Well those are all the questions that I had. Now I just want to give you the space, if you have anything else that you'd like to say or add or anything else that you want me to know or anybody who's listening to this to know this is really just -Cuauhtémoc : Sure. For those of you that are listening, that have just arrived here from the States, lose that superiority complex and humble the hell down. That's all I got to say. Humble the hell down because this society is going to eat you alive if you don't. And I lived through that, very harshly. Very harshly. I had to fight a lot of people. I had to swallow my pride way too many times, even with cops. "You think you're all that, well, you know what, I'm going to put you in jail for a long time. You better pay us some money or you're going to be in for a pretty hard time." Just humble down. Throw some good vibes out there. People are mean to you, just forgive them. Be as Christ and Buddha and Krishna once did.Cuauhtémoc : People spit in your face, just bless them. It took me several years for me to realize that sometimes fighting fire with fire is just deadly and you end up bad and screwed and society just eats you alive pretty harshly. They tear you apart, they want to see you down. Instead of fighting fire with fire, fight fire with love and just try to be at peace, smile, be peaceful, be positive. Even though maybe on the inside you're rotting and sad and depressed, just try to give your society your best face, even though maybe deep down you're hurting and you're very sad. Just try to be as friendly as possible and as positive as possible. That's it. I got nothing else to say.

Cuauhtémoc : Nothing. At the end of the day, we're in their country following their laws, and if we decide to break them, it's our fault. We are the ones that caused this upon us. I actually think that it's wrong when you get deported for maybe having a super tiny little ticket. I think it should be perhaps in consideration that I'm not doing nothing wrong. Just give me a chance. Break me off. Okay. Yeah, whatever. For things like drug dealing for what I did, the system's fine. I'm the rotten one, at least I was. I don't have any issues with the system. I have an issue maybe with being harsh with people that did light things.Cuauhtémoc : I think there should be more consideration for the light criminals but for people like me that actually did things because of power, because of greed, yeah man, let it be. Punish me however you want to punish me. I don't care. I deserved it. It's fine. I was intoxicating your people. I was breaking the law. Let's be fair about it. You want to kick me out? Kick me the hell out. I don't mind. I'll live with it. I'll swallow my pride. I'll live with the depression for as long as I need to live with it because at the end of the day I was doing something wrong and it deserves punishment because it's not like you're doing something beneficial. You're intoxicating the masses with drugs. Some of them very hard drugs. Let it be.Claudia: Why do you think that young Mexican men in the US turn to crime and gangs?Cuauhtémoc : I don't know. In my case it was because for very selfish reasons. I cannot speak the same about everybody else. Some people maybe don't have that love at home or that support at home. I would like to think that the reason why young men, and I say young men, not because I'm sexist or I generalize, but it's really hard to see a woman do that because I guess they're more self-centered and more cautious. You see young men do this because maybe, I don't know, it's just, I can't really say.Cuauhtémoc : Lack of love, lack of support, lack of opportunities. Not in the sense that the government doesn't do them, but they close themselves off. It's just hard to say. From the people that I've spoken with, it's been mainly lack of love and lack of resources. Being an illegal, just you don't have a social security, that immediately just makes you inferior in that society. And yes, I said inferior. It makes you inferior. You cannot purchase property, you cannot work appropriately. You cannot do a lot of things. You're inferior in the sense that you can't even get your own house. You need to ask somebody to help you.

Cuauhtémoc : Those frequencies have really just helped me get my life together. They have really helped me heal. I would say that I'm still broken because I haven't mastered myself fully yet, but at least I'm healed. I'm broken but just with like, maybe like a stitch. It's there. It's a huge open wound still because the pain is still there but it doesn't hurt anymore like it used to. It's just the pain that maybe when you sprain an ankle and eventually you walk it off. Like you step on it, and it's just pulses but it's not to the point where you can't walk, you can walk, you can do stuff and it's just that tiny pulse it just shoots up and you even sometimes even step real hard so it goes away. That's what I do.

Cuauhtémoc : Well, it's gotten better in the sense that I have a lot of peace of mind, and I forgave myself for a lot of things. I forgave myself for all the pain that I've inflicted upon my family. I forgave myself for all the mistakes that I've made throughout the past. I think the number one thing and healing is forgiving yourself. In that sense, I don't carry those burdens anymore. They still sting here and there from time to time. But it's something that I've let go of and I've mastered. Not 100% but I've mastered, and I feel great about having that in the past. In that sense, I walk without holding onto those very heavy things.

Cuauhtémoc : The baggage, there you go. I don't have that baggage anymore with me and that has really given me the opportunity to expand internally, and being able to heal those hurtful things with positive things. The void that's inside me, the empty void that was once filled with rage and sadness and depression, that void is being regenerated with self-love, self-empowerment, and overall feelings of wellbeing. So to start off internally, that's where the change has been done, mainly.Cuauhtémoc : In terms of external things like the home at work. I'm running an apartment all to myself which I am furnishing all to myself. I've gone through numerous changes. I've left a lot of furniture behind, I've left a lot of things behind in numerous places, distributed. I don't care because I am no longer as materialistic as I used to be. Let's say in the house that I was living at prior to living in where I am, I left furniture behind. I left a lot of nice things behind so I didn't even care. I was like, keep everything. I left stuff behind with my roomies and I don't care.

Cuauhtémoc : What has fueled my change is not Mexico. What has fueled my change is an awakening, an internal awakening, and the realization of my potential as an infinite being. That has fueled me. Not Mexico, not my mom, not my surroundings, but just my realization that I am an infinite being and that I'm practically the universe manifesting itself in three dimensions and a vessel made of flesh, AKA human consciousness, that is what fuels me every day. The fact that I'm infinite and the fact that I've proven that we are infinite because you go into a tier three campaign as a 1.5, and I've been first-place nonstop.

Cuauhtémoc : And the fact that I've been able to very quickly absorb and dominate every test that has been bestowed upon me, it further confirms my infiniteness and my role as a superior being not superior in the sense that I'm better than you, but superior being because of the consciousness and the realizations that I have. We're pretty much demigods, we're semi gods. Why? Because we have the ability to create and destroy just like a god can create and destroy. I too can do that. Maybe not in that grand scale where I can create celestial bodies, but quantum mechanics talks a lot about how our micro thoughts have a macro effect on the universe.

Cuauhtémoc : I think that's an abomination. I think that's just horrible. For you to consider yourself above somebody and just be able to treat them like crap just because you have a position. Let's say if a cop does that and they have done that to me too, where, “Oh well I'm going to do what I want and at the end of the day it's my way or the highway.” Cops have done that to me, but not just here in the States too, Latino profiling. If you're that kind of human being, stay the hell away from me. Go away. I don't want your negative and disgusting vibe to affect me.Cuauhtémoc : I know that I should be loving too but at the end of the day, if I allow myself to be infected with that nastiness, I’m gonna – I don't want to distribute that, I want to absorb it, yes, neutralize it and just, go away be away from me. Blessings and love, but stay away from me, and I don't want to be part of this institution. I don't want to be part of your gigs. I don't want to be part of your shadiness, stay away, and you stay over there in your corner of being hateful and negative, and I'll stay in my corner being positive and assuring and helpful and loving. Maybe at the end of the day, if that's what fills your void by all means just do it over there. Stay away.

Cuauhtémoc : Give them tools and not money. Show them the way. Allow them the capability of developing skills. If you give people money, you make them worthless because they eventually become dependent on that sometimes. Not everybody, but give people tools and not money. Teach them things that will help them thrive in a society. Teach them things like accounting, expenses, management of expenses, economics, teach them how to have a trade, maybe construction, electrician. Help them with school in the sense that, integrate them back into school.Cuauhtémoc : When I got here, it was very hard to integrate myself back to school. I actually did a test in the UNAM to study English. What was it? Enseñanza del Inglés, which translates to for non-English as Spanish speakers, English teaching. So the girl, I still remember, it was just horrible. When I went and I presented my high school diploma, she just tossed it and she's like, "What the hell is this? This isn't a document. This is worthless here. Didn't they tell you that you needed to get revalidated?” I'm like, "No, that's what you're here for."Cuauhtémoc : I didn't say it like that messed up, but I'm like, “No, isn't that what you're here for? To guide me?” “This is worthless. What is this? I can't even read what this says.” That's why I haven't gone back to school because it was just, man this is such a horrible system, and this is supposed to be a prestigious school, and I know in the States they do the same thing and Stanford and Yale, people get turned down very horribly. It's not just a Mexican thing.Cuauhtémoc : I point that out because I know people out there, they get rejected from very prestigious places too, with very horrible attitude because they raise their necks and say, oh, you're very prestigious yeah, but where's your manners or you’re prestigious but where are your manners? What's more important? Having prestige or treating someone correctly, treating someone with the respect that they deserve. To me, this is trash because you may be super prestigious, but at the end of the day it's worthless because you're a horrible human being. Oh, well. So I just said, “I don't need this. I don't need your institution. I can educate myself and I've been educating myself for the last 10 years. I've been educating myself in the streets. No thank you. I don't need this institution's teachings. If it's going to be like this from the very beginning, I don't need this trash. You may be super good at giving me book knowledge, but I have enough street knowledge to be able to maneuver through life. I don't need this.” So I kind of just put me off and I said, screw school. I don't need school. At the end of the day school conditions you for a lot of things. So I'm like, I don't need this conditioning.Cuauhtémoc : I don't need this conditioning because at the end of the day, school is a type of conditioning. I can think for myself, thank you very much and if I need knowledge, I could just pick up a few books and educate myself in the matter. So I don't need this. And it served me well because with the high school diploma, I'm already going for manager, and I'm sure that I'll get to director level with just the high school diploma. Why? Because I'm very hungry, and I know I can do it. I already programmed myself internally for me to have that director position, so there's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to obtain it. It's going to take time, maybe even 10 years, but I know that in 10 years, I'm going to have that position. I already made myself a two-year plan, a five plan and a 10-year plan, and I'm going to invest every single week and hour of my life to making sure that that's going to happen.

Cuauhtémoc : Live off the fat of the land. What they chased I like to have that just live off the fat of the land. Have like Of Mice and Men, just a happy finale. Just get out of here, get out of the toxicity of the city and just live in some remote location. A very, what's the word I'm looking for? A very, what's the term called when the land is rich?Claudia: Fertile.Cuauhtémoc : Fertile, just live in some very fertile place and maybe grow my own stuff and maybe have a few goats and just slaughter them when necessary with the balance and maybe just sell some too just to exchange. Live in a place where, maybe even an autonomous place, because there's a lot of places in Mexico that are autonomous. Just screw the law, screw exploitation. I'll just live with like-minded people like myself and just get out of here and just have my nice, beautiful cabin and maybe grow some fruit, grow some veggies, and have a few animals and just maybe have friends that do the same thing and just get away from here and just not be here part of this toxic environment and just be away.Cuauhtémoc : But that's going to take a lot of money and time and just be out to myself. Maybe a hermetic lifestyle, but not in the sense that the yogis do or the Shaolin not to that level, but I'll still party. I'll still probably have girlfriends and stuff and have that lust aspect still there. Because I know that Shaolin and yogis, zero sex, zero meat, zero everything. I'm not ready for that yet. Just let's go camp out, and be like a permanent camp out just get away from here. Get away from this pollution and believe me, people say, “oh, Mexico city has pollution.” Yes. So does LA. Get out of here with that.Cuauhtémoc : It's not just Mexico. Open your eyes and realize that every big city has these problems. Every big city has rats. Every big city has homeless. Every big city has pollution. Every big city has black water so get out of here when you say it's Mexico. It's not Mexico. It's when you want to judge. Look at your own big city first and then come at me and tell me, “oh, it's Mexico's ugly. Mexico's dirty”. Well, you haven't looked hard enough. You haven't gone to Bosque de Chapultepec. You haven't gone to Cerro de la Estrella. You haven't gone to the nice parts. Look internally before you can criticize. That's my motto of life.

Cuauhtémoc : Eventually just detach from society and go live far away in my cabin and be self-efficient and just live off grid in a nice place obviously have a couple of acres to myself and be a self-sustained person. Just live off.. There's a quote from Of Mice and Men. Have you read it?

Cuauhtémoc : I probably would be super powerful in the States actually, but it'd be more of a selfish thing because I was very power hungry in the States. That's why my nickname, “the godfather” rose and fell because I was a very proud person, and it was more of a power thing, power struggle than anything. Kind of like when you're in a gang and you fight for turf and stuff. The part seems very similar but with way less violence. I think that I'd be kinda like this power-hungry dude.

Cuauhtémoc : Give me a few grams for the Jordans. That was bad, but I admit it, I did it. I know that's bad, just selling it or consuming it, it's just horrible. Very bad vibes to it. Just people just get sucked up. So I rather if I was back in the States, I'd probably just be fabricating some really super high quality LSD and just tripping with the people, being with the people, sometimes even going out into a campfire and saying “Take it, but just let go” and probably even doing some therapy with it too. Like “Hey man you know what, I'm here for you. I know I'm, you're dealing and everything, but just come over, we'll go into a cabin, we can trip out and just be cool and just be at peace and get in touch with nature” and that's sort of thing.

Cuauhtémoc : Actually I've sold LSD before. Mass scale and you surround yourself with really cool people and it's not like, oh man, I got to get rich quick or die trying kind of thing it's more like, you're making money off of it, but it's just really chill people. I even used to take LSD with my clients and I wouldn't consider them my clients like you would because I've sold meth, I sold crack too. So it's way different. Sometimes the crackheads just, they're very bad to deal with. They'd be bringing just whatever. They can sometimes even their own clothes, I’ll sell… I got some shoes. All right, shoes. I actually did that myself once. Remember when I was partying and I ran out of drugs and I had some nice Jordans and I, you know what? How much you give me for these Jordans?

Cuauhtémoc : I probably would be drug dealing probably, very heavily doing so maybe doing some pretty heavy drug dealing, or I probably would have gotten into the party scene and done some pretty heavy club promoting. Maybe just do some heavy club promoting for the hottest clubs in Hollywood or something or maybe just be lost and destroyed and be in mayhem, being in the streets, doing mayhem and being destructive and carcinogenic to society. I say that because I used to do a lot of partying and just breaking into warehouses and partying and just trying to get money. One of the five.

Cuauhtémoc : That's a hard question. I think about that. I don't know. I don't know how to answer that. Because there was so many versions of me in the States. There was the quiet boy that just wanted to finish school because of his mom's expectations, but then I was very heavy in the party scene. I was chasing chemical engineering. I don't know. It could be one of five. Maybe I just would have gone quietly and just graduated and maybe worked in a pharmacy because that's what more or less... I wanted to do pharmaceutical, chemical engineering. I could probably have followed my father's footsteps and probably be the CEO of that business and maybe would have made that expand.

Cuauhtémoc : Neither. I consider myself an infinite being that has no nationality nor borders. I consider myself a being of light. I consider myself and the universe manifesting itself in three dimensions, a part of it. That's what I consider myself. I'm beyond the whole “Mexican-American”. Borders are imaginary, implemented by humans therefore, I don't consider myself neither.

Cuauhtémoc : I am very hungry. I am very relentless and I chase my goals with almost a reckless pursuit. There is a book that I shaped my life around called Frankenstein. Nothing to do with the movie at all. There's even an essay that I actually read a lot called… there is an essay by some guy in some university I don't even know, but the point being is what was Frankenstein? The reckless pursuit of knowledge. Because what the scientists did was he chopped down his moral and ethical limits to obtain a goal because at the end of the day, morally and ethically speaking, that's wrong, but he achieved something that was thought impossible. He played God, and he obtained it.Cuauhtémoc : You know what the problem was? He created something ugly in the eyes of society because Frankenstein was ugly looking. He had a beautiful heart at first, but due to society's rejection, Frankenstein turned evil because he was rejected, and all he wanted was just to fit in. Frankenstein ended up just blowing up. I am Frankenstein in this sense. I have been shaped and molded by the States and Mexico. I may be ugly on the outside, but my intentions are sincere and pure on the inside. If society doesn't want to accept him for who I am, let them be. At the end of the day, I don't need anybody's approval.Cuauhtémoc : So yes, I am the scientist, and I am the Frankenstein both. I'm not saying that I'm going to chop down my ethical and moral limits because I do have limits, but I'm going to do whatever it takes to get to where I'm at, and I ain't going to also become that product, but the difference is here is that, one I'm not going to disregard my moral and ethical views and two, I'm not going to go berserk on society and because I'm not welcome. I don't need to be welcomed. I just need to be respected. That's it.

Cuauhtémoc : And that has been tested and proven time and time again with a lot of experiments. One of them being, the water freezing experiment by the Japanese where they speak emotions and thoughts into freezing water and they literally see a visual representation of that thought in the snowflake that water becomes. If you are hateful and evil towards the water, the water manifests very ugly looking snowflakes. Whereas if you treat the water with love and care and speak very nice things to it, it manifests into beautiful snowflakes. This isn't something that I'm just speaking, I'm inferring or I'm guessing. No, this is something that has been proven by both science and religion and I'm just simply replicating it with my actions.Cuauhtémoc : This goes further beyond Mexico. This is just my realization as a powerful being that I am, and I am a living testament of the powerful being that I am on a day to day basis.

Cuauhtémoc : Whenever you align yourself, your voice, your mind, you align yourself to a celestial frequency, great things start to happen because whenever you're tuning into a negative and bad frequency, a lot of things like that just start to surround your life. But when you change the frequency, and you align yourself with positive mentality with positive affirmations, positive people, positive music, positive frequencies, and just being in tune with the god frequency, being in tune with life frequency because there's more than one. There's the God frequency, there's life frequency, there's just a bunch of really nice frequencies there. There's healing frequencies that people that practice Reiki. They also tune into those frequencies.