Lizzy: If you don't mind me asking, you didn't have papers at this time, right? Did you have health insurance, some kind of health care?

Yordani: So 911 came and they checked me, my pulse was getting slower. I guess they injected something to wake me up, it wasn't working. I guess they decided to take me to a hospital. They took me to the hospital and I guess they didn't have the tools to help with that, to help with the overdose, so they transported me to another place. And there, they had to put a tube down my throat and remove the liquid, and they put me to sleep.Yordani: I remember having dreams, I felt like it was a dream and I was fighting to get out of this bed, like trying to fight out of this hospital bed really hard. And just little moments where I had consciousness and I remember little parts, and yeah, I just remember fighting really hard just to get out. I felt really strong and unstoppable. And I guess one of the reasons is, I guess, the Vikings before going to battle would take this mushroom and they'd feel enraged and empowered. So I guess I was too then, right? And yeah, so yeah, that happened.

Yordani: You had to look at the texture, the color, and the feel of it, the size, everything. And I found it and it's like, well I feel like this is it, but there's many look-alikes and I don't want to die. I found this other mushroom, it was really colorful and this one was super easy to identify, and I read up on it and it said it had properties that would get rid of anxiety.

Yordani: And I read it online that you shouldn't do it on your own. You know? I was really like, that was the first, was... to do it on my own. You might just kill yourself, you know? So I did that, I went on research and I waited for the perfect time like when the rain comes. I went looking and stuff, I knew it was really dangerous, I was scared. At one point I found, outside, a mushroom that I thought was it, but I was just so scared to do it, you know?

Yordani: I guess I'll talk about how I was trying to... I thought I had really bad anxiety, and I was finding a way to cure it. And I researched, it's all like, "Oh, you got to expose yourself and do this." And then there's these mushrooms, I guess, that will help you, like psychedelic therapy.

Yordani: And the other... We moved away from town, where I would hang out with all my friends and yeah, so I just isolated myself with some games. I spent like five, like three, seven, four, five, six, seven years just doing that. I got really bad, I guess my social skills got really bad, just lost all my friends. Got new friends online that weren't really friends. I didn't even know who they were. And yeah, I was just in a really bad state of mind, you know? I hated going outside, it was so... I guess I didn't know where to get help. I guess I had a computer, so I'd be on the computer and I'd just research a bunch of stuff.

Yordani: Uh-huh (affirmative). Uh-huh (affirmative). You'd get less credits, you had to earn less credits to graduate. And there I guess, it's more about crowds, so it's like I had even less reason to really graduate and I ended up just dropping out like when I was 18. And from there I guess I got addicted to video games, like really addicted to video games. I guess... I don't know, to escape, I feel like I had my reason, I guess that was my reason to get good at that game, because that was my reason for living, I guess.

Yordani: So I went to 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th grade, not really learning. I just got past, you know? And at the end, in 12th grade, the vice principal called me, he's like, "Hey, you're not going to graduate here, you should go to this school." And they sent me to that school and that school was like, it was full of people like me that didn't really care and -

Yordani: Well, I guess I was in school and I started doing substance abuse and I guess I got depressed. It's like I wasn't really trying at school. My friends were working all the time. I guess nobody like, could supervise me. Yeah, I had bad influences. I hung out with the wrong crowd and I guess I had no purpose for going to school. I said, "Why am I even going to school?" I didn't even know. I didn't even like see a reason, a good reason to go. So it's like it didn't matter to me.

Yordani: Well, I guess I was in school and I started doing substance abuse and I guess I got depressed. It's like I wasn't really trying at school. My friends were working all the time. I guess nobody like, could supervise me. Yeah, I had bad influences. I hung out with the wrong crowd and I guess I had no purpose for going to school. I said, "Why am I even going to school?" I didn't even know. I didn't even like see a reason, a good reason to go. So it's like it didn't matter to me.

Yosell: I just want to finish my university. When I was out in the States I would send money out here, so I have a house and stuff like that. I just want to just get done with my university and actually, you know, work on that. That's pretty much it, all the goals I do have on here. Yeah.

Yosell: I probably would have finished my university out there.

Yosell: I think the only way I can put it really is just being strong. Because basically you got to learn how to mature in a faster way than you'd probably do it here. I've seen a couple of family members or friends here that are like 30 years old and they're still living with their dad and mom. They're just like not doing anything for their life, and opposed of people out there, most of them that I do know were just living by themselves and doing their thing. I'd say out there it's probably not that good because you’d get, because most of the people would get into some kind of a drug addiction or something like that. I’d say, here, here it'd be probably the same, but out there it'd be easier to make money. Here it's a lot harder. That's probably what's the difference here to there. That's what I'm saying, I think out there you learn how to be strong. When you come here, you're just like, "Oh." most people get depressed or frustrated here. Others actually know how to move on and continue. That's probably how I see it.

Yosell: Yeah, currently I had a cousin that got me to work here at T-Tech, so I guess that was it.

Yosell: The hardest part here in Mexico is actually I'm trying to live here with the economy that they have. One day transport is cheap, the next day it goes up, and then it keeps going up, and you're just like, "Oh." It's just really hard to keep up with it.

Yosell: Yeah. I got jumped in, 15,16, with a family kind of thing when they're out there. That was basically not a really big choice for me. All the family was in there, so that's all I could say on that.

Yosell: I have to tell you, I'm going to guess that's really true. Because it's just something really common up there. Either you join something and you're known as hardcore, you're known as somebody, or you don't join anything and you get bullied around. That's what I could say.

Yosell: [Laughs]. It didn't hurt quite as much as I thought it would, it was just more like, "Oh my eyes are really like, tiring," kind of stuff, so that didn't really hurt. I think the worst I've ever had hurt was probably right here on the collarbone area. Yeah, that's probably the worst.

Yosell: I guess there's a couple. I got these two right here, it's probably my favorite tattoo, actually. It says—

Yosell: That's probably one of my favorite ones. Let's see, I had a cousin that got shot out in the States out in Utah, so I ended up getting a Salt Lake tattoo right here.

Yosell: My favorite one would probably be like I have these two angels here. Those are my two brothers, so I decided to get them, and I got my mom tattooed on my head.

Yosell: Basically, the story it tells. There's a lot of things into it.

Yosell: Probably, that's probably why it is. The way you dress.Yosell: Since I do remember I was maybe 17 or 16 when I started getting tattooed drunk.

Yosell: Yeah, I mean, I already did know about it just a little bit, so it wasn't too bad. It was just basically like Los Angeles, it's the same thing, really. Just the differences, the corruption out here, and how people treat you. I would probably walk down the street, and I would always get a dirty look or something. I'd always get checked by the cops here, that's a constant thing for me.

Yosell: I tried finishing my university out in Mexico, but this is the same thing. It's really hard to put your hours to work and go to school and stuff like that. It's just really hard out here.

Yosell: I tried finishing my university out in Mexico, but this is the same thing. It's really hard to put your hours to work and go to school and stuff like that. It's just really hard out here.

Yosell: I actually used to get paid for that out there, but just since I did end up just coming out to Mexico, I talked to my sponsor—which his name was called Jones, he was my manager out there—and I told him, "Hey, you know what? I'm going out to Mexico." And I got to say thanks and that's it. And he actually tried—when I got out to Mexico, I had contact with him a lot—he's telling me, "Hey, I want to see if we can get you a green card or something." I kind of didn't want to go back out to the States. I kind of just wanted to stay here. I really didn't even know Mexico, so that was part of it. I surfed a couple of times here in Mexico, but it's expensive out here to do something. You can't really do much.

Claudia: When you say you had a sponsorship, does that mean that you competed?Yosell: Yeah. It usually would take us out, and my dad would actually come with me, since I was still a minor, and it would just get a couple of videos into it, just do my stuff basically. That's all I would do.

San Francisco and Venice Beach and all those kinds of beaches to just kick it. And I would see a bunch of my cousins surfing, so I think that's where it came on. I think I like almost any other sport, really, it's just like something that my dad put us into. He would take me, and I have two little brothers, out dirt biking a lot.

Yosell: I can remember when I was just a little kid, my dad would actually take me out to San Francisco and Venice Beach and all those kinds of beaches to just kick it. And I would see a bunch of my cousins surfing, so I think that's where it came on. I think I like almost any other sport, really, it's just like something that my dad put us into. He would take me, and I have two little brothers, out dirt biking a lot.

Yosell: That's basically what I did. I just got paid to do that. And when I wasn't working with that, I would travel a lot with my dad. My dad would work with construction. I would just be with my dad or do my thing, and that's it, basically.

Yosell: Let's see, snowboarding. I would always go back out to Utah, to Salt Lake, cause I loved snowboarding there and plus we'd always get free gear out there from the sponsor. The best part I probably like out there was camping out in the mountains. I really like camping a lot, I don't know why, it's just something I always did like. [Chuckle]. And from surfing, I don't know, it was always really into water.

I'm going back out to Mexico to live this time and actually live out here." I ended up just coming back, and just forgetting about college over there, and came back here to Mexico to actually live. And of course I was actually helping my mom with the cancer thing.

Yosell: From what I do remember, I used to live in Vegas with an aunt there. I was doing my elementary school and then after that I moved out to Utah and started doing a little bit of my middle school and after that I was kind of moving around a lot of places, I guess just working—my dad got me a job working for construction. And I was doing my high school online, a kind of homeschool thing. That was pretty interesting. I would come back to Mexico quite often. I would kind of just jump the border and come see my mom, and then I jumped it again.

And my mom had cancer at the time—she was fighting her cancer. So I ended up just saying,

Yosell: In the States I finished my high school out there, and I was actually studying a little bit of college, but after the dumb Trump kind of thing came in place, I was just like, "Eh." And my mom had cancer at the time—she was fighting her cancer. So I ended up just saying, "I'm going back out to Mexico to live this time and actually live out here." I ended up just coming back, and just forgetting about college over there, and came back here to Mexico to actually live. And of course I was actually helping my mom with the cancer thing.

Yosell: I don't know if it would be a big thing since I was always kind of with my dad, and I would see my mom almost every... I would come back every Mother's Day or Christmas kind of thing. Come back to see her, and then I would just basically just jump it again. Since dad knew people that would cross the border quite often, that's where they would do it.

Yosell: Six or eight times just jumping it.

Yosell: Let’s see. I think I was about three or four months old when I crossed the border the first time. It was just, you're going to cross the border, and so I crossed the border through, it was TJ [Tijuana] at the time. And I was living in San Francisco for maybe like two years. After that, from what my dad tells me, and to what I remember, we were just moving around the U.S., and quite a couple of places.

Frank: I will not say compassion because we're not searching for compassion, what we are searching is just to be treated as well.

Frank: For example, being crossing as an immigrant instead of crossing on the flight because it could help them also to get more in more income instead of just paying a [coyote] so they can cross us.

Frank: It's something that we have to deal with it on customer service, but we are used to it. We have to have a centered mind, we don't [inaudible] over accelerate with the customer. We always provide a smile, a good customer service, and everything's okay.

k: It's not stressful. It's more like frustrating because we can help them and it's something so simple because of a closed mind we cannot do our job sometimes and sometimes we do everything good. They like it, we solve their problems, but at the end they just finish with a comment saying "fuck with Mexicans, I don't like this service" and they can switch away…

Frank: It's not stressful. It's more like frustrating because we can help them and it's something so simple because of a closed mind we cannot do our job sometimes and sometimes we do everything good. They like it, we solve their problems, but at the end they just finish with a comment saying "fuck with Mexicans, I don't like this service" and they can switch away…

Frank: Actually, I try it four times. I try first for an engineer and because of the culture exam I wasn't able to get in. On the second one. I got into like a backup, but it was for medicine. I wanted to be a surgeon and because of the spaces we have to wait 15 days to see if anyone quits and if it's the case and we still have time, then they get from the reserve and they join, they complete the groups again, but I stay on the seventh space,

Frank: Actually, no. Why? because I was raised in a different mind. I can say that no matter if they're racist, I don't have any reason to try to treat people wrong. And basically taking that on my mind that's why I decided to make an extra mile for me, for my life, and I decided to start with customer service. We know that most Americans, they don't like to deal with same American people, that's why they started doing outsourcing. I know that I can make a difference with a lot of people. They have a straight mind[set] saying that I don’t want to talk to a Mexican and I don't want to talk to a different people.

Frank: Actually, when I was on _____, it was my elementary school, I feel accepted and they were going to transfer me to ____ Junior High School, it's more for an African American community and so we moved from home and I was going to go to _____, that was an American community and I talked to my counselor and they talked to the district and they make a special [decision] so I can go to a different district that was more for mix communities because I didn't want to go to ____. Yeah basically, that's another bad experience I had.

Frank: Actually, when I gave my … They were telling me that I just needed to improve a little bit more of my fluency so I can get into more normal classes and also doing all those comments. They were making me a little more impotent because I wanted to have science classes, math classes as normal, and was not getting in matched to it. Also, because of that I talked to my counselor, they put me on construction, science and civics, so I get into a little more in touch, and I can say that was one of my baddest experience.

Frank: Yeah, and that's why I make my will to go and less than two years to gain or improve my English. I went from seventh grade I was on ELL 1 all the way to Read 180. I remember there was a skill that they had six in one year.

Frank: I don't like the to say that word because it's getting into a little bit of ethnic discrimination, but I will say yeah, the American kids, they were saying that to all of us.

Frank: Yeah, we're making a lot of other steps for example, we know that you're ahead on the wireless charges, but we were thinking on a wireless electricity, like Nikola Tesla, we have a lot of great minds that we're taking all those ideas and we wanted to improve it. So, there are some projects.

Frank: La technica al servicio de la patria. It means that all the technicians, all the engineers we serve to our country. So I want to continue with that spirit and, yeah, like I was telling you leave my mark here on Mexico.

Yeah. For example, as we know, most of the famous engineers, they were Mexicans. For example, we can talk about the color TV everyone uses on the whole world, but it became from a Mexican. So, I want to mark the history of Mexico and have a special project an invent that could help the whole world. I would like to leave my mark on the history of Mexico and not saying it was a Mexican, I'm sorry for the [inaudible] but it was a Mexican who got development in Canada or the USA and here's the achievement. So that's what I

Frank: That's correct. And besides that it could be a program, let's say for example, where I can develop my career over there, that will be awesome. But there is for example on the bajada [lower part] of Canada here they have programs for engineers to go as an outsourcing. To be honest I know that the U.S. dollar compared to the Canada dollar, it's a little cheaper Canada, but it's more than Mexican Pesos. That's why I'm planning to be outsourcing. If I could get a good engineer here, it's better to serve to my country, but if it's a possibility, I will be more than happy to go back to USA.

nk: Because I was searching for any type of programs that we can go to the US, but as we know, they're always requiring not living in the US before. They also require a visa, which is impossible to get in Mexico.

Frank: With this engineering degree basically, since it's more for communications and electronic, at this moment I'm doing an extra course of programming so I can learn a little another specialty and between my goals, it's either get a good job here that is worth talking about 25,000 per month. If not, I'm planning to make all my migration status to go to Canada.

Frank: So I was planning to get a career over there and on the case, my incentive was my brother because he wanted to join the Marines, but once he get here on Mexico, he went to a [paratrooper unit] and basically he was from the Air Army, so I wanted to join the same steps. But I wasn't able to. So I decided to continue with my University and here I am.

Frank: So I was planning to get a career over there and on the case, my incentive was my brother because he wanted to join the Marines, but once he get here on Mexico, he went to a [paratrooper unit] and basically he was from the Air Army, so I wanted to join the same steps. But I wasn't able to. So I decided to continue with my University and here I am.

Frank: So if you're above 21 they have another careers, but you cannot get an engineer. Also, I try it on the same period, I try it for aviation, but because I don’t have a 20/20 [vision] on my eyes I was not able to qualify. On the third one I tried for medicine again, but I was above the age again that was 24 last year.

Frank: Actually, I try it four times. I try first for an engineer and because of the culture exam I wasn't able to get in. On the second one. I got into like a backup, but it was for medicine. I wanted to be a surgeon and because of the spaces we have to wait 15 days to see if anyone quits and if it's the case and we still have time, then they get from the reserve and they join, they complete the groups again, but I stay on the seventh space,

So, she offered it to me that we can continue, try to see if we can get any type of help so you can continue studying and also my parents offered me if I wanted came back to Mexico because I wanted to get into the Army, but they told me that if I want to serve to country that I should serve to my country. So that's another reason why I also come back to Mexico.

Frank: I remember since that day I decided not to participate in any program because I know that I was not going to be able because of my immigration status so I make my own goals. They were still learning English and get back here to Mexico so I can continue to study because she also told me when I was in junior high - I frequently went to visit her - and she told me that I needed to think about it if I want to continue with the University because the patrol stuff that I was doing, it was going to give me points so I can get into the University, but I wasn't going to be able to get enough points. I needed to pay like a monthly charge and it was going to be a really expensive

Frank: I brought it to her and to see if she can translate it for me and she was telling me, actually she didn't want it to hurt my feelings, so she started telling me in other words that I didn't qualify because there was things missing on the essay, but now that I can understand it, I can see that because of my immigration status I was not able to qualify for the visit to the White House. So I still have the envelope, as a memory, and I have all those papers. Basically with all my information, they were telling me that because my immigration status, I cannot go to the White House.

Frank: So, I make my essay in Spanish. She helped me for around three months to get all of the essay translated to English. She also was helping me making my essay. I remember that it was around 800 words. We had to write out, so I make my effort. She helped me send all the forms and two or three weeks after, I received a letter. It was coming also with the stamp the color gold and because on those times I was not really getting into the English.

Frank: Yes. When I was in fifth grade, I always saw these kids that have their patrol flex and I told my counselor that I wanted to be a patrol. They told me that I can join this patrol and they put me on proof. I was doing really well. I had these trips to the Mall of America and one of the scenarios, I remember Ms. _______, it was on my _____ School and she offered me if I wanted to go make an essay because there was a how can you say – there was a program where they said that we can get in contact to go and visit the White House because I wanted to learn a little bit more about the culture.

Erik: To erase co-dependency, basically, everything starts over when you start to take care of yourself. So, whenever I take care of myself, everything around me is fine. I don't know if that makes sense.Anita: I do get it. It makes a lot of sense.Erik: It makes sense what I think. The best value to me is take care of myself. If I want to do a contribution to my city, I need to start for myself. Keep my room clean. Keep my bathroom clean. Keep my house clean. Do not throw trash on the street. Be responsible in my job. Pay my bills. Besides contribute, do not be a load, or do not be a charge.

rik: The Mexican government, what I would tell them, not about the migrants, but the whole society. We live in a rich country which, from the conquerors until today, they come to administrate the government and only take out, and take out, and take out, and do not give nothing to the people. I don't know if that makes sense. It's not like, only to the immigrants, society. Mexico is rich. We produce oil. And we buy gasoline? It's ridiculous. You know? I would tell the government, go to the United States and you want to regret those... They call the tratamientos - [trade]Anita: trades?Erik: The trades from Bucareli. It's like a secret treatise where American government do not let the Mexican government to be self-sufficient over the country. So we can’t. I would say cancel those treatments because they belong to secrecy and develop the Mexican country. We don't have to be and make the country rich; we can make our own country rich.

Erik: Well, I suggest if you found a book from Melody Beattie, he basically teach, write about a lot of co-dependency.

Erik: The Mexican government, what I would tell them, not about the migrants, but the whole society. We live in a rich country which, from the conquerors until today, they come to administrate the government and only take out, and take out, and take out, and do not give nothing to the people. I don't know if that makes sense. It's not like, only to the immigrants, society. Mexico is rich. We produce oil. And we buy gasoline? It's ridiculous. You know? I would tell the government, go to the United States and you want to regret those... They call the tratamientos - [trade]

Erik: Well, the Americans who’s going to hear that is the ones who want to hear. But I don't think Trump supporters will have that wish. [Laugh.]

Erik: I went to the judge, and the judge say, “Well, you don't supposed to be here because you have a valid driver's license. But, you do not belong to me. You belong to ICE court, or immigration court.” So they moved me over to immigration center.

Erik: Yep. But, if you go to Georgia, they ask you for green card and social security which I don't have. So I was driving with my Maryland license.

Erik: Or yeah, it's what I like. And more likely too much independence that becomes because the social opportunities you have. Meaning if you can pay your bills, you don't rely too much on your dad or your mom. Like right now, I live in a three-story house. Belongs to me, but I share with my mom. In the U.S., I have the option to say, “I’m going to pay my rent. Even though this is my house, I just going to move.” Right here, I can’t do that because economics. I got another house—it belongs to me—but is in a neighborhood that is no safe. People rob, and kill, and stab. So I stay with my mom. [Laughs]. So that's the difference. And the economics give you that independence. You know, well, I can rent another place. Is not a big deal.

Erik: Yeah. They independent, yeah. I lived on my own. If I am grumpy, it's okay to be grumpy. I mean, I want to be grumpy. Everybody gets grumpy. You know? I like that. Not that I need to please everyone, or I have to smile even though when I don't want to.

Erik: In the case like, I don't know the word in English but in Spanish they call [Spanish 00:26:19]. Which means the mom take too much care about their kids, and sometimes that don't let you grow up. You know what I'm saying? And that is very different between one and another culture.

Erik: Habits. Like for example the habits of my family. You know? If I stay on my family, and they going to make a party, they might even don't have money and they spend it all. I say, “Whoa whoa whoa whoa, hold your horses. I split the bill.” Or something like that, you know? I don't know if you get me. There's like a cultural thing down there. The city I used to live, it was clean. And you complain about seeing trash on the ground and nobody likes you. I don't know if that makes sense.

Erik: And some people don't want to change. I work in a call center and we do technical support. And you always talk with old people and say, "I'm an 80 year old woman. Do not expect me to do no troubleshooting." People resist those changes. So, I believe part of the discrimination is because you are different. Either you act different, either you think different, you know? Or you have just different customs.

Erik: Sure. You got to hide. Like, for example, I don't like to speak English because people treat you weird, you know? They, even my own family, say “you act funny. You was born here, you supposed to act like you been here.” You know? So, it's one kind of discrimination, but I just lift my chin up.

Erik: Of course. Yeah.

Erik: Yeah. The last town, you know? You don't be so anxious about losing your job, or you don't feel too much pressure about that.

Erik: You're right but getting one point of a good therapy is just tell you have to take your own decisions, man. I just don't understand your feet on the ground, man. I mean, cheer up. You got to take your own decisions. That's basically what a therapist would tell you. You need to make your own decisions. So, there's not much I can do. That's why I don't see much hope in the therapy, you know?

Edgar: Yeah, I think there should. But I don't think there will be anytime soon. But I really think there should be. They should... Yeah. They should help people like my mom, people that have been over there for a long time, to give them help, to be able to actually work there. And, yeah.

Edgar: Get a good education, yeah. Help my family out. Get a good job, good paying job. Yeah. I would want to go back with my mom and brother again. Hopefully, that can happen.

Edgar: Him? He actually went back. I don't know how he did it, but he actually went back. We keep in contact. We actually do keep in contact. I haven't asked him how he did it. But he went back. He's working over there now. He has a girlfriend, all that. Yeah.

Edgar: No. Getting better. I would probably say 80% now. But, yeah. When I got here, it was very bad. Very, very bad.

Edgar: I did have a few dreams but I didn't think I would be able to accomplish them over there. I think I would be able to accomplish them here.

Edgar: Like I know more stuff of over there than people over here know. I know... What could I tell you? I don't know. It's just different, different than if I were, if I didn't go over there. Yeah.

Edgar: Oh, man. All my people out there. The food. Where I lived, East Palo Alto, Redwood City, the SF bridge. Everything. Everything. Yeah. Pretty much everything. Everything from out there.

Edgar: Yeah. Hopefully, it will be good.Anne: Uh-huh (affirmative).Edgar: Well we get paid with commission so I don't know how much we get paid. It all depends on me.

Edgar: No, I take a bus. It could take more if there's traffic. But I'm actually planning on getting a little car. That way, it won't have to be that much. Because where I work now, I have to leave—from where I live—I have to leave at 5:00 AM to be able to get here at 7:00 AM.

Edgar: No. No, I was already 18. Yeah. No, if I was a minor, they would have took me to juvie, I think.Anne: Juvie, yeah.Edgar: Juvie. Yeah. Yeah.

Edgar: For weed, for getting caught with weed. Dealing and having...

Edgar: Misdemeanor. Yeah. I don't have any felonies, though.

Edgar: Yeah, one year. And then, we came here to check it out, me and my friend. Yeah. We wanted to check it out. And then, we were here for like half a year, half a year, hanging out, too. Drinking, meeting new people. Then we went back to Michoacán. And then, I got tired of it over there.

Edgar: No, no. We only drank beer.Anne: Drinking?Edgar: Yeah. Only drinking.Anne: Was it fun?

Edgar: Yeah, yeah. He had a fake one. I could've got that one, too. But I didn't really feel motivated that much out there to work. And then, the rent. Really, really high. Everything. I thought about, I thought if I came here, it would be way better for me. But when I got here, I didn't know what to do. At all.

Anne: And your time in the plumbing business had been also while you were in school?

Edgar: Drop out? I wouldn't call it drop out. I just... Yeah, the weed. It got me more into hanging out with my friends. And they didn't go either. So I would want to hang out with them more often. And if I did go, I wouldn't have that much time. And the homework, I didn't want to do it.

Edgar: Yeah. They were working a lot but they made a little bit of time. We would go to the park, play a little bit of soccer, and go to the movie theaters. But when they separated, I think we were happier without him. Yeah. Yeah.

Edgar: Well we were moving back and forth, back and forth. But I was like around 12 when I moved to Menlo Park. And then, from there, I went to Hillview Middle School. Finished that, went to Woodside. I moved to Redwood City. That way, we could be closer to high school. Yeah.

Edgar: No, I think there were like five other people like me. They barely got there too. They were trying to learn the language. So that really helped me a lot too, that there were other people like me.

Edgar: Then when I got over there, I went to first grade. And then, my teacher, I really liked her. Because she really helped me learn the language and all that. Yeah.

Edgar: Yeah, I did.Anne: And you said it was pretty easy to learn the language.Edgar: Yeah. I went to elementary or middle. Elementary, right?

Edgar: They didn't. They didn't. They didn't. But, yeah, after like four years, they separatedAnne: Oh.Edgar: Because it wasn't working. The relationship.Anne: So he moved out?Edgar: He moved out. Then we found another apartment. We went from East Palo Alto to Menlo Park, California. Then, yeah. I had to change schools. Everything. Everything changed. Yeah.

Edgar: Well the other kid, he would only come on the weekends. Yeah. He would live with his mom. Yeah. And then, one year after we were over there, he got married to my mom. And, yeah. That was even more weird, yeah.

Edgar: So yeah, when we got there, I don't know. Everything was weird. I didn't know where we were. I really don't remember much when I was young. But the language, I think I learned English. I learned in a year, one year and a half. It wasn't very hard. So, yeah.

Zayuri: It's annoying definitely because it downgrades you. It's like you're not enough for anyone apparently. Especially in my family, they treat you like—they don't even want to listen to it. For example, my grandma, the one that is here, she's so annoyed by the whole thing. She thinks that all the family that went to the United States and came back ... She's like, "Ugh, now they think that they have seen the whole world, and now they think that they're better than us." It's like, "Okay. So, I can't even talk to you about this, right?" And don't even try to mention that you miss something about the United States, because she's going to be like, "Well, go right there. Go back. What are you doing in here?" I was like, "Yeah, that's the same thing that I question."

Zayuri: With the mom. I think I'm going to have a very imagination, so I was like, "I am going to get a portrait of her, but not a realistic one because they feel horrible. They don't last anything." So, I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to get it in a traditional way," and that's what I go.

Zayuri: Yeah. This one is actually quite funny to explain because my father, he has Lupita written out on his arm in this gaudy Cholo letters. My father, he also has tattoos, but they're like the green type you see, the kinds of ones that you see on people who just got out of prison. I have asked him, "Have you ever been to prison?" And he's like, "No." I was like, "Where do you got those tattoos?" "In the studio." They don't look like studio tattoos to me. They look green, green and all bloated.Zayuri: But he has Lupita in this arm, and I always told my mom, "When I'm older, I am going to get your name. I am going to get something, something related to you." She was like, "No, don't do that." She doesn't like tattoos. She even cried when my father got that because she was really upset about it. She was like, "Why did you did that?" So, it was like, "Okay, I can't copy my dad's tattoo. I'm not that unoriginal." I was like, "I don't want to get the heart shape."

Zayuri: They just changed the eye color because he didn't listen to me. I gave him the photo, and he was like, "You know what? We should put her with yellow eyes. That will really bring out the color." I was like, "No. I think we should stick to the colors on the picture." But he didn't listen to me.

Zayuri: Yeah. She's still in the United States. She's trying to get here. I met her two years ago. Her name is Rosalind. She did help me out a lot of times, but I didn't want to go her name. I just don't like to get names on me. So, I was like, "Yep, I'm going to get a rose," because I have a great imagination, and that's all that I could come up with." Then I got this for a song, and this is just right here. I am going to get this one covered up because I really hate it.

Zayuri: Okay. This one was the first one. To be honest with you—I don't regret the piercings, and I don't regret the tattoos that much—I do wish that I had taken better of them, because I scratched them, and I did lots of things that you're not supposed to do with tattoos. So, the ink just blowed up. Yeah, I got this for a very important person of mine. She's my ... What do you call it? Step-sister? She's the daughter of my father, but she's not the daughter of my mom.

Zayuri: She was like, "No. You are keeping your hair down, because you cannot show your ears." I was like, "Okay." And the same thing for my tattoos too. She was like, "You need to cover them up because they're not professional." I was like, "It's like 40 degrees outside. It's really hot in here," especially because the classrooms are sometimes so tiny that it gets so hot in there. I was like, "You see, I'm not even trying to fight with you anymore. I'm going to die of a heat stroke if you don't allow me to take my jacket off." But she was very rude about that.

Zayuri: No, yeah, I do like them. For example, it has been difficult to find a job because of it, because of people that are like, "You don't look professional. I don't think that that's a nice thing to do." I work here in a college, in a private school, and the principal, she was horrible to me. She was like, "You need to cover your ears." She didn't even allow me to put my hair up, even if the weather was too hot.Isabel: Yeah, you're sweaty and stuff.

Zayuri: Then it went downhill crazy, and I was like, "You know what? People don't like my hair? Well, they're not going to like my piercings. They are not going to like my ears. They are not going to like my tattoos and everything." Yeah.

Zayuri: I try to, but we see it from very different perspectives. For example, I took it in a very aesthetic way. That's why I stretch my ears, and I've got a couple of my piercings. And I have told my mom this, “This is what was beautiful to us. This is what beauty was to us before all the colonizing that we had. This is what meant beautiful for us.” She's like, "Yeah, that's too much.” She will wear the traditional clothes, but she will look at my body modifications, and she will be like, "Yeah, that's a little bit too much. Yeah, we get it, but that's it." Yeah, she doesn't like them.

Zayuri: For example, I try to see more things in Spanish, and I try to be more connected to the culture and everything. Even in the United States, we celebrated all the days. We put up an altar on Dia de los Muertos [All Souls Day] and everything. My father was like, "This is who we are, and this is what we're going to say."

Zayuri: That's a hard one. It's quite hard because if you ask people, they're not even going to... I have asked my cousin, "What do you think of me? Do you think I sound more American or you think I sound more Mexican? What do you think?" They were like, "I don't know. You just sound weird." I was like, "That's another point to my self-esteem. Thank you." Oh god, that is hard. I'll say I'm more Mexican, I guess.

Zayuri: Yeah. The memes that are funny in Spanish is so hard to translate to other people. For example, my roommate, she speaks English and Spanish, but she's completely from here. She has never lived in another country. She has visited other countries, but she just has lived here. Sometimes I'm laughing at a meme from the United States or even worse ones, the German ones, are so hard to me to translate, because I'm trying to, “Okay, you see this picture right here? Let me put you in context.” Then there's like a 30 minute rant trying to explain the context. And that's why it's funny. “You get it?” “No.” I try. That's it.

Zayuri: I don't want to say that I gave up, but I did thought, "Okay, I'm just going to work and try to get into college here, do college here, and then try to get there," because it was a struggle even to pay the college in here in pesos. So, I can't imagine having to pay a loan to pay the college in the United States. I was thinking of that, just finishing college in here and trying to go legally back there.

Zayuri: It wasn't completely new, but I did have to get used to it. It was quite traumatic at the beginning, because I was like, "Why is this place like this?” [Fake cries]. Even in the parts where I was living because my family doesn't have that much money, so it was a very not nice part. I don't know how to describe. So, it was really dangerous. And having to get used to like, "Oh, you can’t go to play basketball at 10:00 PM because there's cholos right there, and they might rob you or something like that." So, I was like, "Okay. Now what? What do we do?" You just stay in the house, but outside's too much, just way too dangerous.

Zayuri: Anita. She mentioned the DREAMers program. I think I brought it up once with my dad, but he was like, "No. We have to keep things private.” He was just private, and he didn't even want to try to get the papers for us. He said that, "No, we're just going to get a spotlight on us, and that is going to be dangerous," and all of that.

sabel: Yeah, absolutely. So, looking back on it, you said you felt like you were being punished. Did you know of the DACA program? Was that available yet or anything like that?

Zayuri: She told me that she wanted to keep us safe, and that was the reason. But nowadays she's trying to reconnect with her family and everything, but it's still quite hard because the family that did stay here, they're like, "Oh, you guys are so agringados. You think you're better than us." I'm like, "No, really."

Zayuri: I was like, "Oh my god.” Especially because my mom, she's an indigenous woman. My father, he could white pass very easily, but my mom, no. She was really distant from talking about that. For example, now that I live here and I say that, "Oh, my mom is an indigenous woman," she's like, "Oh, can you spoke a tongue or something like that? Can you spoke another language?" I'm like, "No." "Why not?" She didn't really like to mention it. It wasn't something that she brought up to people.

Zayuri: I was like, "Oh my god.” Especially because my mom, she's an indigenous woman. My father, he could white pass very easily, but my mom, no. She was really distant from talking about that. For example, now that I live here and I say that, "Oh, my mom is an indigenous woman," she's like, "Oh, can you spoke a tongue or something like that? Can you spoke another language?" I'm like, "No." "Why not?" She didn't really like to mention it. It wasn't something that she brought up to people.

Zayuri: No, I didn't. My father always told me that we had to be very discreet, keep things private. “If they ask you, you were born here. Don't mention things about the family and all of that stuff.” He almost made it look like, "Don't say you're Mexican. Just say you're really tan." That's it. [Laughs]. If they ask you, you're really tan. That's it. I was like, "Okay. I'll try my best. I think it's pretty obvious that we're not here, but I'll try."

Isabel: Sorry, I should have asked this earlier, but did you then cross the border together?Zayuri: [Affirmative sound].

Zayuri: Yeah. A friend of mine got deported, and my father got scared of it—I was about to turn 18, I was like one step away from my birthday. He said, "I think it's about time for you to go to Mexico." I was like, "Why? Why me? What did I make this time? I've been a good kid." I saw it as a punishment. I was like, "Why did I did wrong? Why do you think that I have to leave?"

Zayuri: [Laughs]. I was like, "Why does that upset you that much? We're not even talking about you, Cynthia. Why do you take it personal?" [Emphasis]. She was like really mad about it. I remember that once she told the principal that we were molesting her in the sense that we were annoying. "She's so annoying. She's constantly talking about all the other girls." I was like, "We don't even mention their names. How did you figure out that?" It was really confusing for me. Why do you think that we're speaking about you when we don't even mention your name? And I never confronted her, to be honest, because I am not that kind of people. I know that I should have confronted her and be like, "What is your problem with me? Can we make something about it?" but it was too much for me. One day she will get tired of it. She didn't.

Zayuri: Not that many. I have never made that many friends. And most of my friends were people I will say that related to me—in a sense that they were also Latin or Black. We didn't get that many white friends. [Laughs]. Yeah. Not really.

Zayuri: They were not used to us. For example, I remember a girl that she got really angry when she find out that I was speaking Spanish with another girl. She was like really annoyed by that, and I was like, "Why do—"

Zayuri: Yeah, that was my chance to make a friend. I'm really shy. It really causes me to not talk to people. It's really hard for me to do that. I still have nightmares with that. I was like, "I could have made a good friend, and I just let it pass."

ayuri: No, I said it in Spanish. She was like, "Okay," and she sat next to me. She had this beautiful skirt, and I just said, "Oh, your skirt is so nice. Where did you bought it?" She was like, "In Ireland," or something like that. I said, "Oh, are you from Ireland?" She was like, "No, I'm from Germany." I was like, "This is my time to shine! Where are my five lessons from Duolingo? This is what I've worked for. Say something nice." I was like, "Okay, I know how to say your skirt is nice in German." I was like, "Okay." I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it." By the time I got the courage, she got off the bus.

Zayuri: Oh, yeah, yeah. Now I remember. She got in the bus, and the buses in Zacatecas have these sensors that, every time you step in, they make a noise. You have to get away from the line because they start to charge more. It's like every person gets a beep, and that's one ticket. So, if you stand there and it beeps twice, you have to pay twice. She wasn't getting away from there and the bus driver got angry. She didn't understood why the driver was angry, so I will say to you, "You need to get out of the line." She was like, "Okay."

Zayuri: I could literally go right now. I have my backpack with me. Yeah, because being with them will mean a chill afternoon. I just have to read for them or help them out with their homework, maybe do some cleaning, make the dinner, and that was it.

Sometimes I was like, "You guys need me to babysit?" "No, we're okay right now." "Are you guys sure? Because I could go there. I know that I'm like 40 minutes away from you, but I could go. Really. You just hit me up if you need more." And 10 minutes later, "Are you sure that you don't need me today?" [Loud voice]. Because my brothers, they're not annoying, but they're very loud, especially when they're together. So, I was like, "Yeah, I need to get away from here."

Zayuri: There was a girl. She was around four years old. And there was the boy. He was around eight or something like that? But they were really calm, and they were chiller than my brothers. Sometimes I was like, "You guys need me to babysit?" "No, we're okay right now." "Are you guys sure? Because I could go there. I know that I'm like 40 minutes away from you, but I could go. Really. You just hit me up if you need more." And 10 minutes later, "Are you sure that you don't need me today?" [Loud voice]. Because my brothers, they're not annoying, but they're very loud, especially when they're together. So, I was like, "Yeah, I need to get away from here."

Zayuri: Well, my favorite part was obviously the school and everything. I had a really good job babysitting for a family, and that was really fun.

Donovan: Yeah. Because you really get in touch with mother earth. You really understand what's going on. My teacher, she took me to South Dakota. You talk to a lot of ancestors, a lot of wise people, and it's crazy. I used to be mad at the world because I didn't have my dad. I was like, “I see everybody has their dad and I never had my dad.” I met my stepdad when I was nine. And he's an amazing, he's an amazing human being.Donovan: I don't know, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have had this stuff. He actually bought me my first pair of sneakers. I still remember, they were some Filas, Grant Hill's, white and blue and red. I still remember. Before my stepdad we were poor, poor, poor, poor, poor. We always had dress shoes with shorts. We always had dress shoes with pants. [Chuckles]. The kids are really not the nicest persons. [Chuckles]. Nowadays I like to clean my shoes, keep them really clean. I like to dress how I like to dress. But if it wasn't for my stepdad, I don't know. I don't think we would have had the advantage that he gave us.

Donovan: How the world wants you to be. How they raise you. What is good or bad? Actually, I have it on the book on my phone. Each time when I get depressed and stuff like that. It's a mental process. I really recommend that book. Actually, I have it on my phone, so I can share it to every person I am able to give it out to. There was a point in my life where the, the substance abuse had just taken over my brain, and I was going schizophrenic. I was diagnosed as being bipolar. My teacher, the one that that's always been with me my whole life, locked me up in a mental institution and she gave me the book to read. That book saved my life. And it saved my life so many times from doing stupid shit. And it's a really mind opener. Really mind blowing.

The Four Agreements by Luis Rodriguez. And that book tells you about Toltec culture and stuff like that. That book's helped me a lot. Each time when I feel like there's, I'm in a dilemma that I can't solve myself, I read the book and the book helps me get to a conclusion, helps me get to an answer. I've read that book, I think more than 30 times already.Donovan: It's a real good book. Four Agreements. And you see that you don't have it so bad. You look at my skin. It is fucked up, but then you look at the South Americans, you look at the people that get deported all the way to China and you see like “You know what? Really, I don't have it that bad.”

onovan: But besides that, since I've always been in gangs, I'm always able to feel secure in prison. I don't feel danger because I always have somebody to protect me there. But then you figure out about the Salvadorians, the Oriental people. They last 12 hours in flight to get deported to their native country. And I started reading books. There's a book that I love to read called, The Four Agreements by Luis Rodriguez. And that book tells you about Toltec culture and stuff like that. That book's helped me a lot. Each time when I feel like there's, I'm in a dilemma that I can't solve myself, I read the book and the book helps me get to a conclusion, help

Donovan: And the immigration center, they give you good food. My mom used to always put money for commissary. They told me that I had a chance to stay there and fight to become a US citizen. A year into me being there, I met a guy who had less crimes than I had, and he already said seven years there. I was like, “No, it's not going to do. I'm going to waste 10 years of my life. My mom's not going to see me, not even my friends from my school will see me.” The public defender I had, was like, “No,” she didn't want it. I was like, “You know what? I want to dip. I want to go. I don't care.” And she started telling me—it was a Mexican girl—things are fucked up. I was like, “I want to go. I can’t give a fuck. I want to leave right now.” And she was still fighting for me. I remember that time I stood up and I was like, “You know what, I no longer want her to represent me.” And the judge was like, “No, no. He doesn't know.” I was like, “I no longer want her to represent me. I'm over age. I can represent myself.” And the judge, I still remember, was like, “What do you want?” I was like, “I want you to deport me tonight. I want to be in Mexico right now.” It was a year and eight months. I was going nuts. I don't know. I was 180 pounds. I was a butterball, so I just wanted to leave. I found out about that guy's case and I was like, “You know what? I'm not going to waste seven years of my life here. I'd rather be somewhere over there.”

en I got boarded in the Oakland airport, that I got did the whole transportation to , they made us stay three days awake. You go on the plane, then it's on bus. Then you s

Donovan: I'm always the one doing some type of movement. In middle school and high school, even in the gangs, dealing drugs, I've always been, even in every single job, I've always been to be like the people who they look for. In the class they say something that's not proper to us, and everybody looks at me because I'm the first one to say something. It's really cool to be like that, but you have to use it for something good.

Donovan: Give it a lot of pride. And everybody who saw me dance, even the teacher said, I poured all my heart into it. I feel like it was my calling. A lot of people followed me. Everybody's told me I don't see it, but they always tell me I tend to be the leader and I tend to be the alpha wolf. I pour everybody with me. If I do something bad, everybody does the bad stuff with me. Or if I do something good, everybody's with me. I'm able to make a lot of friends and it just always, always be the first ones to say something, to scream something, or to throw the first rock.

Donovan: Yes. Dancing Aztec in the United States really made me feel like I was a real real Mexican.

Donovan: Yeah. I felt like that was something that I needed to do because I consider myself not too literate, at some point ignorant, because I don't like reading books. Now that I'm starting to read books so that I'm around people that are super educated, I see that the culture, the religions that I think were forced upon us. And CNC, we were still slaves. We're still slaves to that religion. That's not our religion. Now, if you look at the Virgin Mary, the Virgin Mary is a resemblance of Tonantzin (Nahuatl), mother earth. It's like they do a lot of stuff to just enslave you. All the pyramids they destroyed, there's only I think 10% of the books that survive after they burned all the books. You had open brain surgery already at that age. We had dental work already. We had so much medicine. We had studies in astronomy. Our Aztec calendar to this day is one of the most exact calendars. It's like, you were evolving so much, so much, and then we just got chopped down. And that to me is frustrating.

She's seen a lot of potential in me. And we went to Sacramento, we've danced for Cinco De Mayo, always in the Oakland, in the City Hall in Oakland. I remember Oakland City Hall has a lot of marble. It's really nice floor. And it was steaming hot that day. I remember everybody told me that I should wear sandals, but I really thought... There's a ceremony called “El Guerrero” and I'm an Aztec warrior, because I went through that phase. And I was like, “No, I'm not going to do it.” But afterwards I had like blisters the size of Lay's chips on the bottom of my feet.

Last time we did a background check, I think I'm Scottish or something. [Laughs]. It blew my mind. Yeah. My name comes from Ireland. Donovan. [Laughs] But it's is D-A-N-N-O-B-E-N. That's the correct spelling.

She would still go. That's when I was a little bit…The rules started changing a lot. When they started changing the laws, she stopped seeing me. Because of her status, she couldn't see me, but she would send my sister and my brother to go see me. My wife would always go see me.

And each time she would tell me that, she's like a psychic or something, because two weeks later I'd be in jail. [Chuckles]. And it doesn't even matter what I did, my mom would always come and visit me. She would stand six, seven hours in line to be able to see me for half an hour.

My mom, she's one of a kind. I love my mom dearly, even though all the things she did. I don't know if it's a mom thing, but she would always tell me, two weeks before I got locked up, she tell me, “Donovan portate bien, be good. I feel like you're doing something bad.” And even if she kicked me out, she would call me at nights. “Did you eat? Are you okay?”

Donovan: I feel like I'm never vulnerable, because I don't put my situation in a vulnerable spot. I'm never scared, because I know how to handle every situation. But it was a little bit weird to figure out if I would ever be caught by ICE. I never thought I would, because I thought... It was like when you're younger you think you're the man of steel and nothing's going to happen to you. You feel like you can ricochet bullets off your chest. But it's frustrating. Limited. And then it was real eye opener when they told me that I had an INS hold.

I just felt limited, very frustrated. I never felt scared, but I think that's... We had a wellness coach here, her name was Natalie, and she was like, “It's not that you - you don't be scared, it is that you don't let yourself feel that way.

Donovan: When I used to get to a certain level in my company, then they would do like a background check, and they would see that I didn't have papers and I wasn't able to take the next step over either.

Donovan: Yeah. And it's, I don't know, I feel like I needed to be something big because of my moms, all that she went through. My dad passed away when we were four in a car crash.

I had a lot of scholarships that got shot down, because of my status.

Donovan: I never felt like I didn't have papers. I'm very easy to get along with, I make a lot of friends. My word of mouth, it's… I almost never stutter. I'm a very good person. My mom never even told me that I never had papers, until I got a little bit older in age. But it was frustrating that I'm not able to unravel my full potential. I had a lot of scholarships that got shot down, because of my status.Donovan: They disqualified me for a lot of scholarships, because of my status, so it's frustrating. Then you have my sister on the other side who's only three years younger than me and she's officially a lawyer, immigration lawyer, in San Francisco. She just passed the state bar exam three weeks ago.

Axel: Yeah. I mean, I was there since we never had any official document, the way that we worked over there would be getting a fake ID with a fake name and everything. Fake ID, fake name, fake social security to work.

Axel: I just wish my kids would tell me. I want them to have that confidence that I didn't with my parents to tell them, and I want them to have that confidence with me and I would let my kids do it in the house, in the backyard, whatever, but somewhere where I know they're going to be safe, instead of like with me and my mom, I would have to go hiding around, go in the streets where it was more dangerous because somebody could see me, cops could see me. All these other stuff, and I'm okay with all that stuff. I'm okay if my kids want to do it, they want to try it out. All right.Axel: If things get out of hand, obviously I would come down to them, but at the end, I just want to see them happy. I want to see them grow, want to help them become who they're going to be, I want them to grow up and be able to say that I was there for them. Even my daughters, even though I'm not over there, I want them to be able to... Even though right now, that's why I take that as a big priority in my life to buy stuff for them, so that they could say, "Hey, your dad's never there." He's like, "No, but he's always helped. He's not there physically, but he's there when I need him emotionally. When I need anything clothes wise, he's always providing me that type of stuff. Maybe he wasn't there physically, but he is somebody in my life important."Axel: And that's always still be my dream. Right now, I separated with my wife that I have because she wants to work, but due to the kids and I don't have any family here, her family lives about an hour and a half away from here, nobody could take care of the kids so she was a stay at home mom. We weren't missing anything, we were actually living pretty good, but she just felt like she needed to do more for the family. She felt like the kids were going to grow up and be like, "Oh yeah, dad was always the one that did everything. He's the one that get the money." She's like, "I want to feel like I did my part. Sometimes I want to buy them something out of my own heart and I want them to know that it's something that I did for them."Axel: I was like, "Yeah, you don't have to say that it's my part or anything like that. I don't ask for any of that. Imma buy them my own stuff." She's like, "No, but I just still feel like it's difficult." So right now, we're separated, but we're still talking, we're trying to fix things out. I want to fix it too, because they say third time is the charm, and I understand my mom too at the same time like, "Hey, you don't want to go and have another baby with another girl. That's going to be four. How do you plan on maintaining? You got two over here, you got one over there."

Axel: There was a point in time, when I moved around, when I first got here, moved in a place around here. That's where my family is at. I don't have any family right here. No cousins, siblings, nothing. When I was over there, since I had first got there, I was struggling. I didn't have a phone. My grandparents, obviously, they're not big on phones with internet, anything like that. So I didn't have contact with my baby for about maybe a year or so, because I could do a phone call every now and then, but the minutes and stuff, since it was a little place, you had to go buy a card with minutes to call. Once the card was over, you had to buy another card or they had to pay and it wasn't good.Axel: All of a sudden, my baby went from being a baby to now she's a little young toddler, walking around, speaking little words and for me, it's always been my dream to have my family and be like my mom was. Maybe I'm not going to be able to have all the things my mom had and things my mom provided us, but I want to get as close as I can to something like that and be able to provide my kids all I can. I don't care if I'm missing something, but as long as my kids are happy and my family has what they need, like I said, like my mom said, I care more about other people than myself. Like I said, shoe brands, all that stuff don't matter to me. I want to have my family, I want to be happy and make my kids happy. See my family grow and see my kids grow. See what they become, because I expect them...

Axel: When my mom calls me and tells me all that stuff about my family members, I don't get upset at my mom. My mom's like, "Hey, they're all saying this and this and that." I'm like, "Mom, just ignore them." She's like, "No, how can you just ignore it?" I'm like, "Mom." I was like, "Look, I never hear them say anything or see them say anything. You're the one that tells me. I get upset at you because you're telling me all this stuff that you already know and it's upsetting me that you get upset, and it upsets me that the fact that they're making you upset. I'm upset at you for letting them get you upset and I'm upset at them for even worrying about that stuff."Axel: You never worried about me when I was in the States and when I was going through all that jail time. None of you wanted to help me out with a recommendation card because you were like, "Oh no, because if we put our information on there, they're going to have us on record and they're going to come looking for us." I'm like, "No, it's nothing like that. They're not even asking for your address. They just want your name and they want you to write something good about me, something that you know about me. Stuff that you're saying that I'm a good person to society."

Axel: Yeah, I had recommendation cards from the church where I used to go, church friends, some school teachers. I had a recommendation from a lot of places but my family members were never there. And that's why now that they're all worried about what I'm doing over here, I'm like, come on now. If I was over there and things went bad over there, where my mom was actually at and where she was able to actually get to know me and punish me in some way, and nothing helped over there, what makes you think that if I'm doing whatever you think I'm doing over here, you telling my mom is going to do anything? If it didn't work over there when I was there physically, it's not going to work over the phone. Come on now.

Axel: I'm more likely to get into a fight or into a physical altercation with somebody or even verbal altercation with someone, because of them saying something about somebody I care about than them saying... They could say the most horrible things about me and I just brush it off my shoulders. I really don't care because I know who I am. But if they anything either minor or whatever it is about somebody I care about, that upsets me a lot because they have no reason to say it, they don't know the person or the person's not even there. So I'm like, "Hey."Axel: If the person is there, I'll be like, "Hey, defend yourself, man." They're like me. They're like, "It's not even true, I don't really care." I'm like, "All right, cool. Let's just ignore them then." But I'm more likely like that. My mom told me that too. She's literally learned that on. She's like, "Yeah, I noticed that." She's like, "You have a heart of gold, but you let people take advantage of you and let people step over you and stuff like that." I'm like, "I don't really care about that. I know what my life is, I know what I do with my life, I know exactly where I'm going, what I'm doing with my life. If people want to say all this stuff, okay. They can say it. I can either let it affect me and bring me down or I can let it affect me and I go at them or I go physically with them or go argue with them, whatever. Or I can just let them say what they want to say and act like nothing was said at all."Axel: I was like, "It's not affecting me." If it gets to the point where it's affecting me, like maybe they're talking about me and my wife or talking about me doing something that is going to upset my wife and now my wife is upset with me or something like that, it's causing problems in my personal life, then yeah. I will get upset at that point, but if you want to say, "Hey, Axel's this, Axel's that, Axel did this and oh, he's this and that. I heard he also was into this." All right, cool. But if you say something like, "Hey, did you know Axel was messing around with this girl and even his wife doesn't know?" And then all of a sudden my wife is like, "Oh, really?" So now she's mad at me for something I didn't do just because they said it. Okay, so now I'm going to get upset because now you're making my wife, my ex, my girl, whatever it is, you're making my parents upset because of that.

Axel: She's like, "Why are you taking it so lightly? You should be mad, you should get mad that people are talking about you." I was like, "Mom, at this point in time, I don't really care what people say about me, because I know who I am. I know who I am and what I do. If they say it, if it's true, okay. I know it's true. If they say it and it's not true, okay. It's not true." I don't care. Okay, go ahead, say it all you want to. I know it's not true, it doesn't affect me at all.Axel: I get more mad at people talking about my family, talking about my inner circle, my friends or anything like that. If somebody says something about a family member, I'm definitely getting physical with that person or if somebody says something about a friend of mine that's close by, I will confront them about it. Be like, "Hey, if you're going to say something about them, say it when they're here, say it to their face. Don't be talking about all that right now when they're not here and th

Axel: My mom's like, "You know how your family is." So now it got to the point where I can't even express myself on social media just because of my family? I'm like, "Mom, you know that I'm not doing that stuff. You talk to me every day. And they're not helping me, they're not supporting me, they're not doing anything for me. So why let them affect anything that has to do with me?" She's like, "I just don't like telling me." I'm like, "Ignore them, block th

Axel: I get mad about stuff as if I was an OCD type thing. I would get mad because somebody grabbed something and then leaves it over here on the couch and doesn't put it back on the table. I'll get mad at stuff like that. That upsets me more than, "Hey, this person's talking bad about you." My mom is really picky about that. My family members are really nosy. They're always like, "Hey, did you see what Axel published on Facebook?" I mean, it could be just a funny picture about a certain thing, but just because I posted it, they think I'm doing those things or I'm into those things. I'm like, it's just something I found funny and I wanted to share with people. I'm not doing it.Axel: My mom's like, "You know how your family is." So now it got to the point where I can't even express myself on social media just because of my family? I'm like, "Mom, you know that I'm not doing that stuff. You talk to me every day. And they're not helping me, they're not supporting me, they're not doing anything for me. So why let them affect anything that has to do with me?" She's like, "I just don't like telling me." I'm like, "Ignore them, block them. If they're really family, they shouldn't be doing that type of stuff."

Axel: Yeah. Those two years that I did inside the juvie, every day was therapy. It was therapy every single day, one hour of therapy every day and we had at least a one hour session, a personal session twice a week. Those really helped a lot. They did help a lot on my anger. At this point in time, my mom doesn't like the fact that I don't get angry. She's like, "This stuff should make you mad. The stuff that should make you mad, doesn't make you mad and the stuff that shouldn't make you mad, you get mad about small stuff like..."

Axel: She didn't want none of that. And then one day, I don't know what happened. Her mom fell asleep with a cigarette or something, house caught on fire, everything burnt. Thankfully, nobody got hurt, but all of the clothes, everything got lost. I'm like, "You see? Your TV got lost, all your furniture got lost, your everything, all this stuff got lost." I was like, "You could have had all that stuff if you would have stayed at my apartment. You would have had your own personal stuff, nothing like that would have happened." I was like, "But you took advantage of it, you took it all and did I don't know what with it. I'm not going to ask you, I really don't care. I gave it to you, so I'm not going to expect an explanations on it."Axel: And she got mad at me because of that. She got mad because I told her that stuff. I was like, "Well, I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying look, sometimes things happen for a reason." I was like, "Everything happens for a reason, I believe that." My mom didn't like that about me. She didn't like the fact that I was so accepting of the things that happened to me in life. She was like, "You shouldn't be like just oh well, everything happens for a reason or shouldn't be too upbeat about stuff." Not upbeat, but yeah, upbeat. I shouldn't be taking it so good, so lightly. She wanted me to take it more heavily. She's like, "Hey, you're getting in trouble. You're going to get deported. You should be taking it more heavily, you should be upset."

Axel: Yeah. To get the drugs or just to party, do whatever and she ended up not doing anything. The car, she could have kept it for herself and used it. She ended up buying another car later on, a couple years later, not even as good of a car as the one I had. TV, she didn't even have the TV for a while. At one point, to me, I thought it was karma at first. I was like, I gave her a lot of stuff, I even gave her the apartment where I lived. I told her that you can live in that apartment, it's under my dad's name, nobody's going to charge you rent, nothing. It's a free apartment, you can stay there and you can have your own place now.

Axel: When I left the States, when I got deported, I had my car, I had a lot of furnitures, TV, everything. All of that, I gave it all to my baby's mom. The newer baby. And she kept me everything. I had a nice car, had a nice TV, everything, I had nice furniture. Not going to say she was the best of moms at that time, but now she is. Now she's doing a lot better, but at that time, she was kind of following into her mom's footsteps. Her mom was kind of really into synthetic weed, which is K2, they called it back then. And it would really mess with your head.Axel: She got really into it because of her mom, and I noticed that because of her mom, because she didn't used to do it, then her mom started doing it in the house, and she got into it. Apparently, she sold the car, she sold a lot of my stuff and...

Axel: My mom's always helped them out, my mom's always been there for them. She's tried to help me out, I'm like, "No, I'm alright right now. The day I need help, don't worry, I will ask you. Don't worry, you're the only person I can count on. So I know that whenever I need some help, I either got to call you or my dad." I was like, "But right now, just help my daughters out. Since you're over there, just help them out. Either they need milk, diapers, whatever it is they need, just help them out." I was like, "I'm doing my own thing over here, I'm helping my baby that I have over here and my stepson and I'm buying clothes to send over there, and plus I'm trying to make a life over here for myself also, but I also want to know that they're okay over there."

Axel: No. I wasn't speeding. They just said that it was random checks. But really, I really think they just ran the plates, they saw that I had a couple tickets before for no license, stuff like that, so they do the check again. I was like, "Okay, they're going to smell my breath. One, they're going to smell my breath, they're going to say I'm drunk. Two, I don't have my license. Three, I'm underage, I'm not even 21 so I'm not even supposed to have alcohol at all." I'm like, that's just not looking good at all for me, so I panicked, I stepped on the gas and I left.

Axel: Yeah. But as far as the environment goes, it's still the same. Yeah, they offered me five years, I had a lawyer at that point in time too. My parents got me a lawyer and he didn't take the plea, and we fought it and fought it, and my second court, I was late due to traffic, and because of that, they told me that they were going to have to put me in custody because I was in flight risk. I was at risk of leaving the country or leaving the state and trying to avoid my problems.

when the recent charges and everything came, the evading arrest and I got my shit. I didn't have no reason to evade arrest, I didn't have anything on me or anything. I had had one or two beers. I wasn't drunk or anything, but I did know I had kind of smell, and I knew that they were going to play that on me, and I was still at...

xel: About six months past, they gave me the same probation officer as before and he actually congratulated me. He's like, "Hey man, you did it." He's like, "You passed the lie detector test again." Because they gave me another one before the end. "You passed it, everything's good." He's like, "I'm here to give you your paperwork that you're off." He's like, "I know it's three days till you're off, but we're just going to go ahead and sign." He's like, "Look, so that way, you sign right now, you know that on the eighth, you are a free man." He's like, "You're good to go."Axel: Yeah, signed my papers, everything was good and I stayed out of trouble from 14 all the way till I was 19, which is when the recent charges and everything came, the evading arrest and I got my shit. I didn't have no reason to evade arrest, I didn't have anything on me or anything. I had had one or two beers. I wasn't drunk or anything, but I did know I had kind of smell, and I knew that they were going to play that on me, and I was still at...

Axel: Yeah. I went back to school. I went back to the same school that I used to go. Everybody was like, "Where were you last two years?" Somebody started a rumor I was in Canada. Some people knew where I were, because I kept in contact with a couple people and they knew exactly where I were. Everything went back to normal once I got back to school. Once I got off, they did give me six months of probation and I didn't do anything. I was doing exactly what they wanted me. From work, from house to school, from school to the house. No time in between at all, no walks with anybody, nothing. It was like all right, going to school, cool. Got to school, school's out, okay, I'm going home. "Hey, come stay, come go for an ice cream." Nope. I got to go home.Axel: Just six months after that, I would probably go out with them for a drink, I would go out with them for a game of basketball, football, swimming, anything but just not right now.

Axel: Yeah. They're like, "We're going to give you a misdemeanor instead of a felony for the assault charge with the teacher since you already failed your probation. Since you're a minor, we understand you did try to do your probation." He's like, "Look, we're going to put you here in this juvenile for two years. While you're in there, they're going to be giving you therapy sessions for anger management." He's like, "They also talk about drug abusement, but it's a whole class so it's like a whole therapy class, so they talk about a whole bunch of stuff, but they'll also give you your personal sessions also to help you with your issues."

Axel: Yeah. They're like, "We're going to give you a misdemeanor instead of a felony for the assault charge with the teacher since you already failed your probation. Since you're a minor, we understand you did try to do your probation." He's like, "Look, we're going to put you here in this juvenile for two years. While you're in there, they're going to be giving you therapy sessions for anger management." He's like, "They also talk about drug abusement, but it's a whole class so it's like a whole therapy class, so they talk about a whole bunch of stuff, but they'll also give you your personal sessions also to help you with your issues."

Axel: I'm like, I’m not worried about that. I want to go outside with the people I've been knowing for years, my family and stuff. I was really disappointed at that point. I was really depressed. I got upset, I called my parents and my friends were like, "Hey, are you out already? Where are you so we can go pick you up?" I'm like, "I'm inside my cell." And they're like, "What, why?" I was like, "Apparently, immigration put a hold on me this morning at two, three in the morning so at six, when they took me out, they weren't aware. They changed me out of clothes and everything and then once everybody was gone and I was the only one left, they were like, why are you here still?" And they were like, "Oh well, it's because you have an immigration hold, blah, blah, blah, so we're going to have to take you back in."Axel: So here we go again, fighting my case, trying to take another two, three months. Just so that they offered me five years again and they were trying to go down to three. Three and some probation. And then at the end, when my judge got the deal where they were like, "Okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to give you a misdemeanor charge and a felony, and you're only going to do two years."

Axel: In the end, I've got a deal with the judge. They were going to extend my probation for another year. We got that deal on a Friday. By the time that the judge closed the deal and everything on my lawyer, it was already 4:30 in the afternoon. The probation office is closed at five. They were like, "Okay, look, we got the deal with the judge, he just said all you have to do is wait till Monday when the probation office is open again, so that way you go from here, your probation officer's going to pick you up here at the holding cell, he's going to take you straight to the probation office, they're going to go ahead and take your documentation, your phone number, address, everything they need from you so that way you can already get registered and that way, we know for a fact that you're going to take your probation and you're already registered into it."Axel: I was like, "Okay, yeah. Sounds like a deal." I'm already signing the paperwork saying that I'm pretty much going to be free on Monday, I just got to wait till Monday because of the probation office. The whole weekend I was excited. I was like, I'm leaving Monday, finally I'm out of here. I know I got to go through probation, but this time, I'm going to take it seriously. It's only one more year. I'm just going to chill out for a year.Axel: Monday came, they took me out of my cell, they gave me my regular clothes, everything, gave my paperwork to leave, everything was cool. Probation officer started getting there and they picked up everybody except me. And they asked me, she's like, "Hey, what are you waiting for?" I'm like, "I'm waiting for a probation officer too." So I looked up my name and everything and they were like, "Oh, well, actually, it looks like immigration put a hold on you just last night at one or two in the morning. So actually, we're going to have to put you back in your cell." He's like, "But don't worry, we're going to put you back in the same one so that way you can go back in with the same people that you were in there with and you don't have to meet some new people and stuff."

Axel: Yeah. I was 12. I was in county fighting my case, and I was fighting it for almost half a year. And it wasn't getting a resolution. We were trying to get an extension, we were trying to get maybe a ankle monitor, something of that sort to get out, because my parents didn't like the idea of me being in there because I was at risk also of not just the jail time or juvenile time, but the immigration catching up on it, and getting immigration.

Axel: Yeah. I was 12. I was in county fighting my case, and I was fighting it for almost half a year. And it wasn't getting a resolution. We were trying to get an extension, we were trying to get maybe a ankle monitor, something of that sort to get out, because my parents didn't like the idea of me being in there because I was at risk also of not just the jail time or juvenile time, but the immigration catching up on it, and getting immigration.

Axel: Yeah. But as far as the environment goes, it's still the same. Yeah, they offered me five years, I had a lawyer at that point in time too. My parents got me a lawyer and he didn't take the plea, and we fought it and fought it, and my second court, I was late due to traffic, and because of that, they told me that they were going to have to put me in custody because I was in flight risk. I was at risk of leaving the country or leaving the state and trying to avoid my problems.

Axel: And that will, obviously, since it was a fake one, it didn't pass. They gave me just a number that looked legit, but it wasn't. If they ran it through, it'd be like, "Oh, it fell, didn't go through. Maybe the number's wrong, can you double check it?" And you're like, "Okay, yeah, let me go ahead and double check it." And you just never go to that place again because you know they're going to check it, so you're just like, "No, never mind. Let's try another place."

Axel: Well, the license is a lot harder now, but I never got that at all. The only thing the cops ever did when they pulled me over in the car, the car was under my name, it was registered with my name, I had my insurance, everything. But I already knew that every time the cops pulled me over, I at least had to pay a $333 fine for not having a license. I would never tell them I don't have one, I would just say I don't have it on me. That's something that my parents always taught me from a young age, because they don't have one, and they're like, "You'll never want to say that you don't have it. You just want to say you forgot it."Axel: Right. They'll let you go. They say, "Okay, next time, make sure you have your license with you. Here's a fine for 330 for not having it with you." Now, if you say you don't have one period, they'll most likely take your car and everything from you because you're not even allowed to be driving at all, whether the car is yours or not. Over there, to work, you can work at any age as long as you had that fake ID. But even with that fake ID, you could only get into restaurants or fast food places. You couldn't get into Walmart or anything like that, because they ask for legal...They actually ran the social security check.

Axel: Yeah. I mean, I was there since we never had any official document, the way that we worked over there would be getting a fake ID with a fake name and everything. Fake ID, fake name, fake social security to work.

Axel: That day, I saw the lady get robbed for her wallet and her purse, and the guys ran into those areas. The police officers were around the corner, the lady ran to them, she told them, the police came. They're like, "Who is it?" They were looking at me. I was like, "No, no. It wasn't me." I was like, "It wasn't me, definitely not, but I saw it happen." I was like, "Yeah, they ran up that way. Yeah, like she said, it was two guys, blah, blah, blah."Axel: Gave them all the information, they're like, "Okay. Well, man, what we're going to suggest you do is go down to the court office, or the place where you make charges, and lift the charge pretty much about what happened." He's like, "Because right now, if we go up there into that area, there could be more of them and they could also take our stuff, rob us or maybe even jump us or we could go up there right now and they're probably already gone inside a safe house or some friend's house. The chances of us getting your stuff back right now are literally zero to none. It's not worth the risk for us to go up there."Axel: I'm like, huh. I was like, you're the police, you've got guns. What's the point of you getting guns and you being trained and everything if you're not going to go into the areas where the people are that are doing the bad stuff?

Axel: Just about to see if I was following my probation rules. I was going to probation hearings every Saturday. Every Saturday, I was going to meetings. It was anger management meetings slash checkups on you. Man, at a year, eight months, they told me they were going to do a... It was like, "Just so we can go ahead and finalize, since you're almost over. We're just going to do a polygraph test." I heard about them and I heard that some people were like, "Yeah, they don't really work." But I had my doubts about that. If they keep doing them, they probably do somehow work at some point. If they didn't work, I don't think people would keep using them. I know that the government's not that hurtful or they won't take that big of an advantage of people.Axel: So they did the lie detector test and I did keep on messing up. There were certain rules where I wasn't supposed to be drinking, I wasn't supposed to be outside of the house at certain hours, I had curfews. Since I was younger, I was considered a threat, since I had pretty much an assault charge on a teacher. I was considered a threat to some people younger me. Like two years or younger than me, I was considered a threat to all of them and I was around that type of people, but it was because my school had those type of people there. They understood that, but I was also hanging out with them in football games, which I wasn't supposed to be at because I was supposed to go from home to school and from school to home. If I had a job, then yeah, I could go to my job. They knew my hours.

Axel: Yeah. That kind of follows up with your story. Like okay, at least he made the report so it must be something that really happened. Well, police, they won't do anything. I found that out almost a week or two after I got to Mexico. A lady got robbed for her purse. There's this area that everybody knows and they're like, "You don't want to go in that area." Because it looks beautiful and everything because the houses are all different colors, they're painted all nicely and they look real nice, but everybody's like, "You do not want to go down there." It was like, if you go in there, you're probably not going to come out or you're probably going to come out, but you're going to come out without your phone, your wallet, sometimes even throw you out just all naked, just for the hell of it.

Axel: Or even the cops, they look at you and they see you looking around too much like you don't know what you're doing, they come at you like, "Hey, what are you doing here? Who are you looking for? Are you trying to connect stuff, are you trying to find somebody with some type of substance or something?" Like no, I'm just trying to find the street here. I don't know where I'm at. Most of these streets don't even have names. They're covered or they're blocked by little taco stands. That's not bad.

Axel: Yeah. Everybody looks at you, everybody wants to know who you are. Are you some type of police officer trying to do an undercover operation or something? They either come at you because they think you look suspicious or they come at you because you look like a easy target and you're easy to pick for, phone or something. Either way, it's just bad all around.

Axel: You could tell me it's all calm, but everybody says my area is a little area, it's kind of a dangerous area, but I've never been in any type of situations over there. No assaults. How do they call it? People that get on the public transport and they steal from the public transports, hijackings and whatever. Something like that. Never anything like that, and everybody said that that area is mainly known for that type of stuff. But at the same time, I guess it's the people. Once they see you where you live and they start getting to know you, and they don't really mess with you. They're like, "Oh yeah, that's the guy, he lives over there somewhere. I see him every day or I see him every two days, but I seen him a couple times."

Axel: Yeah. But no, still, there's still some things that I have to learn or that somebody shows me and I'm just like, "Oh, all right." I've met some people that are actually from here and they've learned English here, in the school, and they're actually pretty good at it and they told me about their life here and they're the ones that show me around or explain to me some type of legal stuff or not legal stuff or maybe how stuff works around here. I still learn a lot of stuff.

Axel: Yeah, it's a big expense and the girl I got with, my ex-wife, she already had a baby. I had a stepson and then I was going to have my son, and also to buy stuff here and send it over there for my daughter. I don't send them money because I know the money that I could send a whole paycheck from that I get right now, and it would be like maybe $100 or $150 for them, almost nothing. So I know that instead of doing that, I know I could buy some stuff here. Toys, shoes, clothes and I could send to them, my parents will cover the fee of paying the shipping and I know it will help them a lot more than me sending them $100 or something like that, and it would affect me a lot more here.

Axel: So now he has to explain all the thing over again in simple words or baby terms for me so I can understand it. It's just like... Besides that, I found that kind of hard but I would never leave school because of that. I was willing to struggle with it but like I said, once I had my baby and everything here, then everything just... I had to put all that aside so I could focus on the money because the job that I had at that point wasn't all that much, and obviously, a baby is a big...

That's why I found it a little bit harder when I started going to school here. To try to do my career was, obviously their language is a little bit more extensive, they explain things with some bigger words that I don't understand.Axel: Like I said, I don't like people asking me a lot of questions and I also don't like asking a lot of questions, because I don't like feeling like... I don't want people to think that I'm just not there with them. But it's not that I don't understand that, it's just that there's certain words that I just don't get the full meaning of it. And I don't want to be there in class like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait. What does that mean?"

Axel: Right. Even though I did go as a little kid, you could go into kinder[garten] and stuff like that, everybody already speaks English and me, it was like I spoke a little bit that I heard here and there, but in my home, my parents didn't know English so they were always speaking Spanish. So in my home, it was always Spanish. Once I started going to school, my first years, it was kind of difficult. They put me in the ESL classes, and it actually really helped a lot. They did help a lot, they explained stuff a lot and by the first year or second year, I was already more understanding and I was getting it really quick.