Cuauhtémoc : Ever since I started studying about, because I'm a chemical engineer at heart. Let me show you a few things. Ever since I started looking at these videos - go ahead actually browse through it. Ever since I started aligning myself with certain frequencies and listening to actual music and positive affirmations and self- programming, I've seen a significant change in the way - there's actually this thing called god frequency, and the monks actually meditate under there's an ohm that they chant, and that ohm is meant to be voiced in a particular frequency.

Cuauhtémoc : It's the name of the last Mexica emperor that valiantly and ruthlessly fought against Cortes without any iron, without any guns, without any cannons. His people fought to the very end, and when Cortes sat him down and told him you know what? You better tell us where the gold is or I'm going to burn you. He said do what you need to do, but I'm not going to sell my people out. That's basically what happened to me because I had a small empire and when I got caught with the drugs and stuff, they asked me, "Who's your dealer? Give us the information. We'll let you go." "No, I got in this myself. Do what you need to do. Take me to wherever you need to take me. Give me the years you need to give me. But I did this to benefit myself, and I'm not going to give you any names and do your worst." So here I am. Here I am.

Cuauhtémoc : Yeah, I actually have a few of them on Facebook. The people that I used to bust missions with and be in the party scene with, because I was really into the party scene. I actually still have a lot of the photos and not too long ago there was a meme where it says, what were you doing in high school? I was dominating the parties and I actually posted that. I had a relentless ... [aside] Hi. Excuse me. Can I have another cup of that coffee please? Thank you. [to Claudia] I had relentless dominance over the party scene, and I don't want to sound arrogant, but I tell you not in a way that that like a proud King tells you but I tell you that because my name Cuauhtémoc is the name of an emperor. It's the name of a Mexica emperor and I like to say Mexica instead of Aztec because that's a proper name. Most people think Aztec is a proper name, but it's actually Mexica.

Cuauhtémoc : At first. But I dominated that pretty quickly because I don't like being weak and I don't like being, I guess you can say incompetent. So I dominated that pretty quickly. I had to.

Cuauhtémoc : At first. The fact that you don't speak English properly or you don't know the ways or you don't know how to get to a place and you have to ask somebody. Sometimes people give you wrong directions on purpose or sometimes people just mess with you.

Cuauhtémoc : Times where… unemployment and there's times where you don't get a job right away. You got to just live with one meal a day and just make your last paycheck stretch for even three, six, nine months, however long it is.

Cuauhtémoc : It's too early. That was not in my time. I got deported in 2011 and that all started happening right after I left. It was a bad time for me to have gotten deported. Wrong place, wrong time.

Cuauhtémoc : Yes, but the pain is still there. I know she's lying when she says that it doesn't hurt, but it still hurts her and it still hurts me. But it's gotten better.

Cuauhtémoc : I grew up around the rap culture. I grew up in a very materialistic society and I think that I'm not the only one that lived in that. I actually like flashy things. I don't know if you remember, but the last time I came I had a huge chain. No. The second time I came I had the huge chain. I had the medallion, I used to rock diamond earrings and, well, I've been around people that were in car clubs. ______ is just a place of a lot of money. Imagine an immigrant boy growing up in ______. There's a lot of money there, and I would see my surroundings and I see all these ballers and all these people in nice SUV's and here I am just barely surviving. It's rough.

Cuauhtémoc : My mom. My mom's pain. My mom's pain was my pain. If it wouldn't have been for my mom, I probably would have probably just been all right. But the fact that she was in pain meant I was in pain. I still cry about it sometimes. I still do.

Cuauhtémoc : I'm glad I grew up in an environment like that because it made me very hungry as a person. Extremely. To this day I don't stop working because I want nice things.

Cuauhtémoc : I felt guilty because my mom was destroyed. That's why I felt guilty. My mom was just crying and constantly feeling very guilty because she was not able to provide the life that I wanted. We lived in a very humble home, and it wasn't enough for me. I wanted things. I was very materialistic in the States.

Cuauhtémoc : It was just coming to an empty house. I didn't even have curtains, but I was proud so I didn't want to be with my aunts anymore because they were just so oppressive that I just, it's either this or going back to my aunts and just being oppressed big time and being told what to do, what to wear, how to talk, when to talk, when to eat. It's either I live in a tyranny or I'm free, but I have nothing so I chose nothing.

Cuauhtémoc : As you can tell by my dark circles around my eyes. I'm just constantly working all day, every day nonstop. I'm a workaholic at heart. I think probably this got me started. A nice little warm up. Coffee.

Cuauhtémoc : The first two years were just severe depression, if you want me to go in detail about it. It was very severe depression to the point where I just lost the will to live the first year. It was just bad. Although I was very strong, willed and sought opportunities for myself. It was just coming home and just feeling guilty about it. Just laid back on my bed and just sometimes crying myself to sleep because I was alone, and I still wouldn't get over the fact that I was here and it was just coming home to a barren house, to a barren apartment. I didn't even have a bed. I slept on a bunch of blankets and clothes.

Cuauhtémoc : Deal with it. They were a bit pissed. I know they were pissed. They were sad, but they were pissed also because it was just like, You messed up. You're about to graduate. You're getting your chemical engineering degree going on. Why'd you do it, man? Not mad. And I was hungry, I've been hungry since I was 14 years old. I needed money and working in the yards wasn't cutting it.Cuauhtémoc : I was a double full-time student almost. I was taking 20 to 24 units a semester. I needed money to live. I needed money to sustain my school. I needed money for clothes. I needed money for everything. Working weekends wasn't going to cut it. I was in school from eight in the morning to 10 at night, almost daily with Fridays being the exception. I was like, you know what, I'm doing two majors this isn't cutting it, and “you guys weren't helping me, I'm not blaming you, but just understand why it was done.” “But you could have spoken.” I spoke a lot of times that this wasn't cutting it. I was frustrated. It happened.

feeling a dread, just very anxious, very nervous, very sad, very, just, I don't know, just a rush of emotions. Just going through my head just like, Uh oh, I think I'm here. I think I'm here. I think I’m here.This is really happening. I started feeling very nervous, very… it's even hard to describe what I was feeling. It was intense. It was so intense. I was just expecting the worst. When the City finally starts manifesting because we start getting closer and closer, I'm like, this is a monster of a city.Cuauhtémoc : This is a huge city. The lights were just super bright because I hadn't slept the whole night because I was just so nervous. I was just peeking out, peeking out. I was super anxious. Here I am landing in this monstrosity of a city, and I looked down, I'm like, man this is just, I'm not ready for this. I don't want to land. I don't want to be here. But then I'm like, "You know what? you earned this, you earned this trip, take it." We finally land. It was around four, almost four, and I was lost. I was lost. I was depressed, I was lost. I was mad at myself, and I didn't want to accept it. I want to just go back and not be here. It was a scary looking city. It was overwhelming.

Cuauhtémoc : I'm arriving to the city. Wow. So, I'm landing, right? When I look out from the window, I look and I see a tiny little bright light in a sea of darkness, just somber, quiet, darkness. And I see this super, super bright light in the distance. Super far away. I'm like, what is that tiny dot? What is that? Why is it so bright? What's going on? Where am I arriving? Why is it so light in a sea of darkness? So about 30 minutes go by, 3:30, I start seeing how that tiny light becomes a monstrosity, just huge city, far away. This beacon of light just shining out to me, and I'm like, I think I'm here. I think I'm actually here.

Cuauhtémoc : It's been actually this month, it's my anniversary on the 3rd of June. There you go again with the threes and sixes and nines on the 3rd of June of 2011 is the day I arrived to this beautiful city. I remember like if it was yesterday. I remember that it was around three in the morning. See the three, see the significance of the threes. It was around three in the morning actually when I woke up. It was a nightmare to me at the time it was very hurtful seeing myself in the window because since the airplane, the lights were on, I looked at myself and it was like the mirror reflection because the lights, I saw myself and I was like, damn, this is for real. This is really happening.

Cuauhtémoc : It's a difficult decision in the sense of the amount of money that I would take for me to be eligible once more and my thing wasn't a light thing. It was drug sales, and they really dislike that.

Cuauhtémoc : The fact that the job… it would make me thrive more at work that's the only reason why I would get a visa and to see my mom, that's it. The only two reasons. And my mom is going to get her papers so at the end of the day it doesn't really matter if I get my visa or not. She can come here anytime, and if I get it phenomenal, if I don't get it, I'm not going to cry over it. There's Canada, there's Europe, there's Australia, there's Asia. I closed my doors in one place? Yes. I'm not sad about it. It doesn't hurt me, it's just difficult in the sense that I have to put a lot of money and effort to be eligible to visit the place again, so I really have to consider whether or not it's beneficial for me instead of investing those 100,000 in that, and I could start a small business here and maybe just thrive here. Who knows.

Cuauhtémoc : That's a difficult question. If it was in my hands to return freely without any problems, I'd come and go as I would please. But rules and laws prohibit me from doing so. In order for me to be eligible for me to go back to the States, even with the visa, I have to submit a pardon request and I have to wait for my 10-year penalty, which I will gladly do and eventually I will follow up, because for the senior manager position that I aspire for I need to be visa eligible, so it's going to take time and money. A lot of money. I'm looking at about maybe a hundred thousand pesos more or less for the lawyer and the fees and all that. But it's definitely something... I'm going to do it, not because I want to go back to the States and live there, but because I want to have more opportunities in Mexico and having a visa just opens a lot more doors.

Cuauhtémoc : All the time. Very frequently. I talk to her weekly. There was a time where I would talk to her almost daily. Nowadays I talk to her at least once a week with the average being maybe twice a week on her days off because she rests Tuesday and Wednesday. So I talk to her Tuesday in the morning or afternoon or sometimes in the evening depending if I have too much work I'll just call her when I'm done. But her and I, we have a lot of communication.

Cuauhtémoc : Friends and family, I tend to shut them off because they're not aligned with my mental goals and my preparations. I know to some it can come out as cold, but I want to get somewhere in life and I want to get there as fast as possible. Not because I'm in a hurry, but I know what I'm capable of doing and I want to devour the world as it is. That's just the type of guy that I am. I'm devouring the world as it comes.

Cuauhtémoc : Seldomly due to the fact that I have a very huge focus on my career, and they have their stuff going on. It's not that… they treat me well when I go there, but they're not aligned with my goals and my way of life so I tend to just align myself with people that are also aligned. Even with friends. I know a lot of people in the city, so I tend to not talk to them as much anymore because I'm so focused on my job and my goals. Where I live currently there's a bunch of English speakers, big time. Two of them actually work with me. For instance, people in my radius, within a five-kilometer radius, there's a bunch of English speakers in my neighborhood. But I talk to them just like maybe we'll grab a beer, we'll have some pizza and that's it.

Claudia: Cool. Which of the following, I'm just going to read a list of relatives and which of the following live in Mexico. Is it grandparents-Cuauhtémoc : Dead.Claudia: Parents, siblings, children, partner, aunts, uncles or cousins?Cuauhtémoc : Right now at this point in time I only have a few aunts living in the city. I have two aunts living in ______ and the rest are either in _____ or in a little Pueblito called _____ where my mom's from. Overall, I'd have to say - all my grandparents are dead, my father's dead, my mom and my brothers are in the States and everybody else is here with two aunts being here in the city.

Cuauhtémoc : Yes. And it's just going to keep getting higher and better from there. Once I obtain manager, cu I'm going to go for senior manager, once I get senior manager, I'm going to go for director and if I can, go to vice president. It's just a matter of time. It depends. Depends how long am I allowed to be on this earth.

Cuauhtémoc : I don't have the school to back it up but I have a lot of experience and the thing with me is that I have a lot of people skills, so I know that it's going to put me way up there in the candidate list. I almost have it assured, but there's always competition. I'm not the only one that does his job. I'm not the only one that has a good background, so if it doesn't come the first time it will come the second time or the third time. At least I'll be ready for the questions because let's say if I do not make it the first time, I'll be well prepared for the questions so the second or third time I'll just dominate the interview.

Cuauhtémoc : It's a card where you can go and use it on particular venues but I just exchange it for money. Let's say out of the 18 that I'm making, that's before taxes I'm making probably 22, and then maybe out of those 22 from the 18 you take away taxes so I'm making maybe anywhere between 15 to 18 after taxes which isn't bad but isn't good. Well, in my eyes I can be making a lot more, but I'm very satisfied with what I’m making now, but, probably in the next two, three years I'm going to obtain that manager position. I know that for a fact because I've been doing management duties for about six months already. I know for a fact that when the manager position comes around, I'm going to be very highly prepared for it.

Cuauhtémoc : I'm making 18,000 a month plus about 4,000.Claudia: Pesos?Cuauhtémoc : It's 18,000 pesos plus an additional 4,000 in, what do you call the restaurant?Claudia: Commission? Tips?Cuauhtémoc : No, it's not a commission. It's about three 3000 for, what is that? It's a restaurant thing where you have a special card and you can slide it and it's particularly just for restaurant use. Like a resto pass. That's what they call it. It's like a Sedexo card. In Spanish they call it vales de despensa. I don't know how to translate that. It's a pantry bonus I guess.

Cuauhtémoc : I'm always raising my hand. Who wants to do this? Me, but there's no overtime. I don't care. I want to do it. That's the way I am. I do that many hours because I choose to do it. They do pay me overtime here and there when it's something that's just, you know what, “we need you to go on your day off and train these guys”, yeah by all means. Give me. Let me have it. I want to do it.

Cuauhtémoc : Per Week, yes. But the reason being is because one, I'm very passionate about what I do and two, I'm very hungry for knowledge and wisdom, so whenever the company needs somebody to, let's say “We need somebody to do this,” I raise my hand and say “I want to do it. I want to do it, I want to train them” because I've actually been training people for the company as well as doing my own work, as well as doing management, as well as being the 24/7 contact, as well as being the VIP contact.

Cuauhtémoc : I lost track. I'm almost always connected because of my huge responsibilities. I'm technically supposed to be doing a 48-hour work shift, but sometimes I'm doing 80 or 90. Sometimes a 100.

Cuauhtémoc : Yeah, I'm working in _______ as a level three engineer systems analyst. I guess that's what they call it. It's a, I guess service experience senior analyst or whatever.

Cuauhtémoc : I lost my INE, and I haven't found a way or people to help me get it again. I know Israel and his team do that a lot, but I haven't been in touch with their team because for the same reason that I'm doing management duties and I'm doing level three stuff at CompuCom, I haven't even had a chance to get my own documents in check, but I know that there's an institution that helps people revalidate their studies. I haven't done that. I wish to do so, but I haven't found time to first, find the two witnesses that I need to get my ID, and moving forward, reach out to the people that do it. No I haven't, but I've taken certifications necessary for my work that I have been doing, and I've been educating myself in advanced Excel for doing pivot tables for work and stuff.

Cuauhtémoc : That wasn't around when I got deported. I'll tell you that much. None of that stuff was around, and I'm glad too because it made me strong character and a strong willed. In a way it was a blessing that there was nothing there for me to enjoy because that just made me more hungry in the sense that it made me more hungry for success and more hungry to have my own back and to scratch my own back and to be more self-reliant and have that self-resiliency to seek success for myself.

Cuauhtémoc : So, I strongly encourage for him to seek those programs which are very beneficial, and they do help people. There has been a lot of improvements in the way migrants have been treated. The people that have gotten returned, repatriated, is that the word? I have seen at least three to four programs from the government where they do help you out. Especially in the border cities like TJ and stuff. I remember my cousin was getting free housing, I think they offer them three months free housing until they get their act together and they give them little incentives here and there and they provide them with food and stuff so that's really nice. He would call me and tell me “You know what? I'm good”. I'm over here in this place where it's like a house of the migrant kind of thing and it's really nice.

Cuauhtémoc : I'll be frank with you, I'm going to be frank during the entire time, but I just wanted to firmly state, I'll be frank. I've been blessed to the point where I haven't had a need to seek support, external support, because since the moment I got here, I did get here with my aunt's home, where a little bit oppressive because I have a very explosive way of being, not explosive in the sense that - I'm spontaneous, but I tend to be very loud, very friendly. My aunts were very unsupportive of my way of being, but I sought out my own well-being, and I've been good ever since. I haven't really had a need for that. But I am very much aware that there are programs which I'm very happy to hear. I had a cousin that was recently deported about a year and a half ago.

Cuauhtémoc : No, they've maintained a stable level. My aunts do ask me to visit them from time to time, but it's usually pretty hard since we have the client visit tomorrow and later today, around four or five, depending on how long this takes. I'm going to go ahead and actually go to the eighth floor and just set up a bunch of equipment for them to have ready since we want the visits to have their docking stations or monitors, some keyboards. The manager and I are going to show up and do a lot of stuff. Last week, I know that Anita had proposed for us to meet, but two of our elements had left the company so I had to take over their shift and I was connected for 20 hours straight. I wasn't going to show up here half dead.

Cuauhtémoc : Although I don't really see much of my family and friends anymore due to the high responsibility that I carry. It's been mainly just work, work, work and just work.

Claudia: Out of social, economic, job, family, insecurity, what's gotten better?Cuauhtémoc : Everything.Claudia: All of them?

Cuauhtémoc : To the point where I actually consider myself very stable and very peaceful. I have a lot of peace of mind.

Cuauhtémoc : Way better.

Cuauhtémoc : On the contrary, it's been very fruitful and full of success, and the last year I managed to obtain a tier three position at my job and I'm currently working my way up for manager. I am doing manager tasks, and I am being entrusted with a lot of highly sensitive information related to the contract that we're dealing with in Compucom. We are working with Chevron, which is a gas company and we do level three IT for them.

Cuauhtémoc: Because in order for a society to grow it needs to be collective. I come up, you come up with me. I try to pull you. If you don't want to be pulled, that's fine, I'll leave you alone as long as you don't bring us down. And that's basically the way I consider everything. Let's grow, I'm not going to grow alone. You come with me, if you don't want to grow, at least be neutral and don't hinder us. Don't hurt us. You want to be part of the team and just as long as you play by the rules and you get your share done, I'm okay. When you fall behind, I'm going to gently poke you and say, "Hey, remember that tú tienes que hacer esto, you have to do it.” And if you don't hey, you know what? I'm sorry but we have a collective consciousness and we want to grow and I'm sorry, but you are hindering our capability. So thus I'm going to ask you nicely, "Hey, ayudanos, necesito que hagas tu parte, if you can't do your part, then I'm going to have to relinquish. You have to go away. Not in the sense that like you're shut down, I'm still going to love you and I'm going to support you, but you're just not part of that immediate project for [inaudible]. And I'm still going to invite you to my barbecues and you're still going to be my friend. But en cuestiones de crecimiento.”

Cuauhtémoc: I'm doing two campaigns right now. I think the graveyard people do multiple campaigns, but it's just calls, they take calls. I don't take calls, I do more delicate stuff. I delegate accesses, I assign certain programs and stuff. So my competitiveness has been ... I've always been very hungry in that sense. Since my first job here, I was doing overtime in training because I had that spark. I'm a fast learner and, no, it's not a brag, it's just me being sincere. I'm very fast. I've been gifted with that fast learning capability. So I adapt quickly to my environment. [Snaps]. So how has the US shaped me? Dominant. I seek dominance. Not in a way that it steps on people, but I share my skills in an attempt for you to come back also.

Cuauhtémoc: Of course, I'm extremely competitive in every way. In my work environment, I'm highly respected because last month I did the work of three people. We are measured by the amount of work you do. I'm a security administrator and access management for Royal Caribbean and Adecco. I basically create user accounts, manage their computer accesses, and the programs they get to see. So on a monthly basis, I'm almost always first place and usually it's by a long shot. So last month I did about a thousand tasks myself, and it's a team of four. I did a thousand by myself and the rest of the team did a thousand, so it was like 2000 total. But a thousand just came from me, myself. And I'm in two campaigns, not just one, due to the fact that I'm like the SAS or like the SEAL Team Ten. When the campaign is broken, they send the best, and I'm one of that elite, I guess the elite team.

Cuauhtémoc: Depends who's asking. If it's somebody hopelessly lost, just running away. No, don't run away from your problems ever. Never, or backwards. If you're in Mexico running away to the States, same thing. Don't. Go to a place to be better. Go to a place to give something. Go to a place to make the place better, don't do it because you're running away or because you have problems. No. Go and donate something. Go and be a beacon for those in utter darkness and desolation. Don't go make things worse. Porque muchos van a vender drogas. [many will sell drugs] I did it. But if you're going to go hurt society might as well, don't go. Para que vas? Why are you going to go make society worse than it already is? I made society worse and I paid my karma and I lived very harsh things. Very, very harsh things too. I mean it wasn't just happy. I got beat up a couple times and I got robbed a few times. Hey, it's part of the process, you compensate good karma with bad karma. I did a lot of good things too—I left a lot of good knowledge in people. So that's why to this day I'm very blessed, extremely, very blessed, like you have no idea.

Cuauhtémoc: Some fetuses can even feel unwanted and get sick. Y se mueren. [they die.]They die in the womb for that specific reason because they just feel so unwanted that they're born prematurely or they're born dead from so much negativity, intoxication, environmental intoxication. Sometimes we as humans are so unaware of how our decisions have a huge role that ... I'm careless sometimes, I say a lot of bad words, not with the intention to hurt, but one word can hurt somebody so much and you don't realize it until later. When I do it, I don't know, just try not to say so much bad words. Pero yo lo hago así como “Esos gueyes, ponte chingon,” así, that type of thing, but with very unhurtful intentions. If I say like “Esos gueyes, ponte chingon,” I say with like the kindness of intentions because I know how powerful an expression can be.

Cuauhtémoc: If it's like a relationship, it could be like a, “All right, let's just go out and chill” and eventually you can build on that and that's fine. That's fine too it could be like, “Let's chill and let's hang out,” but if it's going to be for a family that's totally different. “All right hold on, what are you looking for? Que es lo que quieres? [What do you want?] What are you looking for in me? What do you want to build? Do you want to build it together? Okay, wait a minute so let's .... We got to connect.” It's not just, “Okay, let's just do this and see how it”—no, hold on. There's a life that you're bringing to this world that's going to be affected by your decisions. Every single decision, even the meat consumption and all that stuff, the fetus is aware. It's very aware, actually you have to be very careful. Screams and stuff they can hear it. He or she can hear it, I'm sorry, they. What the heck? Well if it twins yeah, they. But if there's constant fighting while the fetus is developing, that's horrible, that's bad.

Cuauhtémoc: Me personally, I don't feel like I'm ready to be a father. That's why the kids are out of the question. But for personal reasons, I would love to if I, first of all, be in love with my significant other, like have sincere love for that person. Not just, “Hey, let's do this and for the sexual pleasure.” I think there has to be much more, a deeper connection and it's very hard to make the connection that deep with someone. You have to genuinely and truly love them and that's what I seek. If I want to start a family, of course.

Cuauhtémoc: Siento que tengo muchas cosas que hacer aquí. [I feel as though I have a lot to get done here.} I have—tengo un patrimonio que tengo que construir. [I have a patrimony I need to build] I don't intend on having kids not so much because I don't ... I love kids. I absolutely love kids because they're the ones that are most receptive. I've donated a lot of time into planting seeds with kids and I've taught English to kids and they're the most appreciative in these things. I think that there are many philosophers such as Machiavelli and Thomas Hobbes for instance. Machiavelli is like the whole “you're born innately evil,” whereas Hobbes is like “you're born pure and good.” I consider that to be the truth because I consider society to be the corrupting factor. I think we're born pure and you learn based on your surroundings and your upbringing. So to elaborate on Hobbes, I see these kids eager to learn and to share. Not all of them, but es porque [it’s because] their upbringing, but mainly you see a child full of love, full of innocence. And I see that.

Claudia: What do you miss about the United States?Cuauhtémoc: My family. That's pretty much it. Luxuries I can have here. Beaches I have here, beautiful landscapes I have here. It's the family, my brothers and sisters, mainly my mom, my stepdad.

Cuauhtémoc: That's why I think that I'm in the right place. Why? I mean, ultimamente, [recently] I've been meeting people from all over the place and I'm very happy to hear that people from other countries come here and see for themselves what Mexico is like. That makes me very, very happy. It makes me extremely happy to know that people come to share. I mean, you go downtown, there's a Chinatown here too. There's a lot of people from Haiti, a lot of people from Guatemala. I myself had Honduran neighbors so I've always loved to mix myself with other races and cultures. So short answer, myself. I found myself.

Cuauhtémoc: Myself. I found myself, I was lost for so many years pursuing the wrong things. I was only doing school primarily because I was being forced. I studied chemistry because I love chemicals, but in reality it wasn't really my passion. I think teaching is much more something I like. Literature is lovely, I love art. I'm not an artist, but I love the appreciation of art. If I were to show you my phone, my gallery, I have some really nice photos. My phone takes nice photos—not to show off, but I actually do pride myself in some of the photos I've taken. I love architecture, I love meeting people from other places, not that I don't like Mexicans, but la comida, food is something that I absolutely enjoy, music, just culture itself.

Cuauhtémoc: One of the things that I loved doing in college was tutoring. That's a thing that I like to do is transmit knowledge, transmit wisdom. I think the best way that you can make this world a better place is by sharing. No matter what it is, so the fact that I can transmit the little bit of knowledge that I have to you. It's like basically implanting a seed in your brain and you decide if you want to nurture it or not. That's basically up to you if you want to keep sharing the gift of knowledge, you have to nurture the seed that I plant. Whether it's morals, whether it's literature, whether it's a trade. I'm sharing this with you. I'm investing my time and attention to transmit something to you. It's my gift. Whether you want to see it die or not, it's really up to you. But that's basically the interchange of morals, values, principles I think that's worth more than gold.

Cuauhtémoc: Anyway, I said, “You know what? Well, si no te sirve a ti, pues esto no me sirves a mí. No quiero estudiar.” [if that is of no use, well, this is of no use to me. I don’t want to study.] I was making sick cash in TeleTech. I was doing triple hours, I was getting bonuses left and right. I was getting like, my paycheck was like, 8000 a month. Then I was getting almost double with just overtime in bonuses, so I felt like a big baller. I was like, “Oh yeah, I'm balling again. But that's because I would ask my family, what's the medium income like? What's the minimum wage? Like 80 pesos a day or 60, I don't know? That was my stupid little me, “Oh yeah, I'm making way more than minimum wage.” And I felt good and went like, "Screw school. I don't need school. As long as I keep selling and doing mad overtime and hitting my metrics, I'm going to ball hard and I‘m gonna get a car.” But silly me, I should have continued. I was actually trying to major in English teaching because I love teaching.

Cuauhtémoc: Basically, I went to do the test. I did not study for the test. People—I've heard these crazy stories of so many people failing and like it's so hard, no it's not. Maybe because I had three years of university to back me up, three and a half. I just felt like that test was a super piece of cake. I mean the chemistry, the sciences, physics and chemistry, I got 100%. Math was like 90%. I failed only literature for obvious reasons, but universal history got a pretty high score. I got much high scores in everything except in Spanish, like literature and with composition, like Spanish composition. If it would have been English composition, I would have dominated that easy. [Laughs]. But yeah, basically—oh and Mexican history was—I just bombed that test horribly. I got like two out of ten right. [Sharp exhale]. Dismal. And the only stuff that I got right was like the pre-Hispanic history like, “When did Cortés show up?”

Cuauhtémoc: That was ultra-easy so [Sharp exhale] 1521, obvio. [obviously] I think he got to Puerto Rico first and Veracruz, he did a lot of atrocities in Puerto Rico also. Mr. Hernán Cortés. Anyway, so I happily bring my results to reception and the lady kind of saw my smile and like, eh, desde allí, como [from then, like] “you cocky B-A-S-T-A-R-D” because para empezar, [for starters] I spoke to her in English. Why? I don't know. That was kind of my fault, people don't like being spoken to in English. I guess people get offended. I don't know. No les gusta que… “Oye, [they don’t like it because] hey, I'm done.” “¿Qué?” “Oh, I'm sorry.” That's when that care is like piercing, “ah wait, sorry. I'm sorry. Ya acabé mi examen.”[I finished my exam] “Okay.” And I showed her my high school diploma, “Esto que no sirve.” [that is of no use] That just broke my heart. That's like, “aquí esto no sirve.” [that is of no use] I'm like, “What do you mean, como que no sirve? [how come it’s of no use] That's a lot of years of dedication. That's my life. What do you mean que no sirve?” “Aquí no sirve,” [it’s of no use] but in such a hateful, super, super hateful way that my heart just popped.

Cuauhtémoc: They would tell me, “No hables ingles porque te van a secuestrar. No te vistes asi porque te ves como un criminal.” [don’t speak English because you will be kidnapped. Don’t dress like that because you look like a criminal] I had pierced earrings and they're like, “No eso, no más los criminales usan eso. No te pongas esas gorras porque parece que vas a robar el micro.”[not that, only criminals use these. Don’t wear those hats because it looks like you are going to rob the bus] So you understand that when I came here I was heavily, heavily discriminated by my own family. That was pretty rough. That's primarily the reason why I was so depressed because I had it pretty hard with the family. They were pushing me down so hard, but I made it. I'm still here.

Cuauhtémoc: Most of my cousins still live with their parents my age. Some haven't left the nest. I left the nest at twenty-one. I started working when I was twelve. So, I feel proud of the fact that I had to learn what hard work was like very early. It kind of made it not too difficult for me. It kind of eased the transition to the point where when I started working, it was like a whatever thing. I left my aunt's house very quickly. I was there for like two, three months and I said, "Hey, I'm gone. Thank you." Oh, I forgot to mention when I got here from the States, my family was very discriminant of me because of what I had come for, which was basically possession for sale. You could even manejarlo como un narcomenudeo, I guess you can say. They did not take that positively at all. They're like, "Yo, what the heck were you thinking? You were dealing drugs and you're now in my household. I have a criminal in my household. Get away."

Cuauhtémoc: I mean my name Cuauhtémoc, it's Nahuatl, it means, “aguila que desciende.” [descending eagle] So, I took that really into heart and said, “I have the name of an Aztec emperor. I am an Aztec emperor.” I consider myself an emperor. I consider all of us to be Gods because we have the power to create and destroy. So, I said just like how I destroyed over there, I can create here. Puedo crear un patrimonio aquí en mi lugar de origen. [I can create a patrimony in my place of origin] In this beautiful place, and for that reason I declined, I don't want to go back. Maybe it was because pride also had to do a lot with my decision. But now that I look back, I'm very proud in the sense that I'm one of a few family members that actually has made it out alone.

Cuauhtémoc: But I was pretty down actually the first year and a half. I wanted to go back. I dearly missed my family. My mom even said "Hey, I'll pay for you to come back." “No, not anymore. I'm here now. I'm alone. Gracias, pero ya soy independiente.” [thanks, but I am idependent] I'm sorry. Is it okay if I say that in Spanish? “Ya soy independiente, y has hecho mucho por mi, pero tengo que pagar por mis errores y lo voy a hacer. Por más que este muy deprimido, por más que este triste, necesito aprender alla hacer las cosas por mi mismo, y bien.” [I am independent, you have done a lot for me, but I have to pay for my mistakes and I will. Although I am depressed, although I am sad, I need to learn to do things on my own, and well] So, basically, I rejected all. My mom was like, "Come on, we'll get you back." “No, no, no. I don't want to go back because I have to basically feed that ... I have to redo that bad karma that all those years I fed so much. I want to just neutralize that and actually construct something in my place of origin.”

Cuauhtémoc: The first two years were very, very depressing. It took me about a year and a half to just assimilate everything. I was very depressed. One, because people didn't accept me right away. One because I had a thick accent, my Spanish wasn't at 100%. People see you as this opportunity to make easy money kind of thing. Cause, Like you go out in the streets and you ask for something, they’re like, “este güey es pocho.” [that dude is pocho] They give you stuff more expensive, amongst other things. I mean, you ask for directions sometimes they send you to the wrong place just because they like to fuck with people. Sorry about the cursing, I apologize. But what liberated me from all of that is that I actually, my first job was down the street, TeleTech, it was a dish network. So that kind of helped a lot. The fact that I wasn't alone, the fact that I shared this experience. My first wave, the stories were pretty much identical. So that gave me strength, the fact that I wasn't the only deportee. I mean I knew I wasn't, but it helped a lot.

Cuauhtémoc: Anyway, so we have the judge was very just like when … Para empezar, [for starters] they had us chained up, like very, very. Let me demonstrate, there's a chain here, a chain here, a chain here. We just literally had to walk like that. You were like in shackles. The most heartbreaking thing was seeing my family destroyed when I came in like that. Like it’s bringing in El Chapo, not even El Chapo had that much. So, they brought me in like if I was like a high, like super...Yeah, it was bad. It was real bad because I just saw ... I couldn't even look their way, like, don't look over there. The guy was just like, “Go in there, don't be turning around, don't be so.” I remember the expression he just went… And I just sat there like with my head down, I couldn't look back. But I could hear sus lamentos, llorando. [their cries, crying] They were very sickly destroyed. You could hear. You didn't have to look to notice how destroyed they were. I'm sorry. Bad decisions, they cost dearly sometimes. It's okay.

Cuauhtémoc: Actually, my customers were mainly white and Asian. I'd like to point that out, that my clientele was mainly Asian and white and it was like pretty much even. But like I said, I got along so well with people both white… I never got that discrimination. It was a beautiful thing. Maybe it's because I was like the go-to-guy, I don't know, maybe es como dicen, “el dinero quita defectos.” [as they say, money is blind] So the fact that I had the good stuff and also I had money maybe that's what made people see me as this, I don't know. But I think that they were genuinely cool with me because the rave people are about peace, love, unity and respect, the PLUR thing. That's like a thing where you put your hand and share a bracelet, so it looks like the love thing, I guess. I don't know if it's really love, but maybe you can, it's some trastorno psicológico. [psychological defect]

Cuauhtémoc: This huge little tiny guy just… I would go to ___ a lot and people would know me from ___ like, “You're godfather from the ____ party scene?” “Yeah.” Like, “Oh well welcome to the ____ party scene.” But they were more gang-like. “Hey man, that's not me but okay.” So, during my stay I had a lot of love, especially from this dude from El Salvador and this dude from Puebla. They were like my go-to-guys. Had any issues, "Hey, yo, man there's some beef right here." “No, don't worry about it.” “Hey man, that's my friend. Leave him alone.” “Okay.” I pretty much had it very easy, but también porque ya venía apalabrado—like I had my street side to back me up. So super, super pleasant, ate really well. I was pretty much sleeping most of the time just comiendo, durmiendo, [eating sleeping] chilling. When the judge saw me, she's like, "MDMA? Immediately remove this individual from the States." But she said it in such a hateful manner, dude. Even when I came in—

Cuauhtémoc: On the contrary, I was there like king status—always had backup from family. My people would deposit me, ex-girlfriend would deposit me, like good amounts of cash so I was always like chilling, working out. I worked also in the kitchen during jail time and in detainee. So I would eat like a lard. I would eat real good. I gained weight, I gained muscle mass. It was a good time for me to just humble down because I fed off the reputation that I had in the streets. I had a rep, I mean, to this day people still call me that name. People that know me from the States still call me “Godfather.” Think of it like this: I was this short little midget-looking Mexican guy running the party scene in his own way and with these huge gang members. Like, "Hey godfather what's happened?" And they're like, "Oh man, you hurt me." And like, "Oh sorry."

Cuauhtémoc: Actually, I went through ___ to the farm. They kept moving me around. The farm was actually extremely pleasant because you had like two hours of yard time and my bunkie was from Armenia. He was there for banking—some super high hardcore, super, I don't know. The dude had a ton of money and, whenever his commissary came by, he got like huge, huge, huge bags of stuff, like “hey, toma.” [here, take it] Armenian people are really cool. Actually, Middle Eastern people in there, they were like mostly there for huge money issues and the Mexicans that I met were like for huge money drug related. So I never had an inconvenience there at all.

Claudia: Then what happened? How long were you in the detention center?Cuauhtémoc: Like two weeks.Claudia: And then they took you to Tijuana and they were like —

Cuauhtémoc: I was handcuffed, boom, boom, get on the bus. And we were taken not too far away—actually it was within ____—and I was processed there. And once they took me, the treatment was actually not that bad. So, with respect, obviously “Hurry up,” and we went to this place called ____, which was by my house. I could literally have jumped the wall and I could have been at my house. I was like five minutes away from my house, so close, so close. So, I would literally, when we had yard time in ____, I would look up at sky, I'm like, "Yo dude, I could hear the traffic that I would hear when I was at home." And the theater, there was this plaza called ____, so you could hear people laughing and stuff. It was very demoralizing.

process. So you were detained or arrested?Cuauhtémoc: Actually, it was very, very light. I was arrested—Claudia: After you left jail?Cuauhtémoc: No, I was arrested for my MDMA possession, for selling.Claudia: Yeah exactly, and you stayed in jail for four months and—Cuauhtémoc: And from jail, the exit was right there, beautiful. I was actually already contemplating receiving my family, hugging them, [Sigh] and then, “Come with me. ____.” He even pronounced my name well—I was like, "Oh wow, you got it right." "Hey, come here. You're coming with me. ICE has a hold on you." Argh, I just felt that Argh feeling was just…I felt ice. I just felt like a super cold bucket. My world just deteriorated right in front of me. It completely destroyed me, I was like, "Oh no, ICE!" But I had contemplated that actually and I wasn't hurt. I didn't cry because I knew what I had done. So, slowly but surely that beautiful image of me receiving my family just broke into pieces, slowly. It just disintegrated into the abyss. I was like in an abyss of “Argh, no.” It happened.

Claudia: Tell me a little bit more about your deportation process. So you were detained or arrested?Cuauhtémoc: Actually, it was very, very light. I was arrested—Claudia: After you left jail?Cuauhtémoc: No, I was arrested for my MDMA possession, for selling.Claudia: Yeah exactly, and you stayed in jail for four months and—Cuauhtémoc: And from jail, the exit was right there, beautiful. I was actually already contemplating receiving my family, hugging them, [Sigh] and then, “Come with me. ____.” He even pronounced my name well—I was like, "Oh wow, you got it right." "Hey, come here. You're coming with me. ICE has a hold on you." Argh, I just felt that Argh feeling was just…I felt ice. I just felt like a super cold bucket. My world just deteriorated right in front of me. It completely destroyed me, I was like, "Oh no, ICE!" But I had contemplated that actually and I wasn't hurt. I didn't cry because I knew what I had done. So, slowly but surely that beautiful image of me receiving my family just broke into pieces, slowly. It just disintegrated into the abyss. I was like in an abyss of “Argh, no.” It happened.

Cuauhtémoc: “Lo último.” Es plata. No es la gran cosa, pero es como un pequeño recuerdo de lo que fui, o sea. It’s the best. [It’s silver. It’s not a big deal, but it’s like a small souvenir of what I was, kind of.] I was this very materialistic driven individual, very competitive. Since I got from the States, I became like that because of the bullying and that bullying was constant throughout my entire life. One because soy pequeño, [I’m short] you see my size, so the typical height for an American is what? Like almost like ... Well I'm very short compared to African Americans and whites and a lot of our island like Cubanos y Puertorriqueños son grandes. [Cubans, Puerto Ricans, are tall] So, we're the small people, we've got the small gene, so all my life I'd been ... That's why it kind of made me, like it forged me. I was forged in the fires of bullying.

Cuauhtémoc: Why? Because my citizen friends had all nice trucks, nice cell phones, nice clothes. They had it a little bit easier, a little bit, tiny bit. So I just wanted to give myself a little boost and say, "Hey, I'm going to sell this and be blinged out too." Because at the time, I don't know if you remember, that was like 2009, 10, 11, when the whole grills movement was popping, the little “Let's be blinged out,” diamond earrings type thing. Got to have them big chains and little get down. See, I still kind of have that, this is kind of like my—

Cuauhtémoc: And that was great for me because I did what I love, which was deejaying and I saw it as easy. But the guy, even he, just put his hand on his palm—he like face palmed himself—and he was like, "Dude, how much left do you have until you graduate?" Like two semesters. I just need calculus one. I need a psychology class, which was in progress—I was Intro to Psychology 101. I needed a speech class, which was in progress. My organic chemistry one was pretty much in progress. So I was basically a semester away from getting my associates in chemistry with a minor in English. So, when I called my mom from jail, she just broke down. She was like, “Yo come on.” I mean she didn't say yo, but everybody was just extremely disappointed because they had really high hopes for me.Cuauhtémoc: So,

Cuauhtémoc: I think actually I have grown spiritually exponentially since I got here because I was very materialistic in the States. I really was. If you consider life in the States, you say you haven't lived there much, but it's extremely competitive. So I've always wanted to have the best stuff because I did get consumed by consumerism and materialism in the States. That's just me being honest, and brutally honest. That's primarily the reason why I started selling MDMA in the first place because landscaping wasn't getting me much. So my materialistic hunger drove me to those extremes.

Claudia: Okay. And how long were you there?Cuauhtémoc: Like four months, five months.Claudia: Was that your sentence or how—Cuauhtémoc: Yeah. Because I didn’t fight anything. The cop was like, "Yo man, I can't help you. I can't even let you go.” Because I got let go a lot of times. I forgot to mention that during. My party scene brigade. I was partying left and right, never had a license, never had anything. I even driving crazy and stuff. And I was the typical wild super drunk, all that stuff. I lived a really good life in the States. I had a car when I was 17. I had my life pretty much set. I was living the American dream. I was living a very good life. We moved into a middle-class neighborhood, ____, actually. And my mom has a beautiful house. I mean, wow, like just, I look back and say, "lo que me perdí,” pero I'm in Mexico and am loving every second of it.

Cuauhtémoc: So, I disappointed everybody, that's the most difficult thing, it hurts. It really does hurt. I mean for me too. Jail for me was easy because like I said, I actually had a name for myself. They knew me as Godfather because I had a lot of fame in Orange County—a lot of people knew me because of my events. I forgot to mention that I was very, very like a small celebrity in my County for many reasons. So, when I got to jail, I was received very well. They gave me like all this good stuff, so jail for me was actually pretty, pretty light.

Cuauhtémoc: And that was great for me because I did what I love, which was deejaying and I saw it as easy. But the guy, even he, just put his hand on his palm—he like face palmed himself—and he was like, "Dude, how much left do you have until you graduate?" Like two semesters. I just need calculus one. I need a psychology class, which was in progress—I was Intro to Psychology 101. I needed a speech class, which was in progress. My organic chemistry one was pretty much in progress. So I was basically a semester away from getting my associates in chemistry with a minor in English. So, when I called my mom from jail, she just broke down. She was like, “Yo come on.” I mean she didn't say yo, but everybody was just extremely disappointed because they had really high hopes for me.

Cuauhtémoc: I didn't really try to avoid any persecution or prosecution. I told the cops straight up, "Hey, here's my college ID. I'm a chemical engineer. I do not manufacture these myself, but I do sell them to maintain my school expenses." My parents at the time were barely, barely making it, so I made a bad decision. I wanted to take care of the expenses through an illegal means.

Cuauhtémoc: Okay. So basically what started off as a tiny hobby eventually became like a big thing. I would actually eventually carry like up to a hundred pills at once or more. Not only that, but I would DJ, I was a DJ, a promoter and event coordinator and I was doing my site stuff. But you know that I actually did it. I started doing that when I was 14, left it alone because I was okay with money, and I started again hardcore when I was like 21. I started off with like 10 pills and eventually I got to like 400 pills. How it happened was this: I organized an event in the Galaxy Theater which was a big deal—it was a huge event, and a lot of money went towards making that event happen. It got canceled because people were just too chaotic. It was just out of control.Cuauhtémoc: My events would get severely packed and hot, so people were just ... it was just a mess. It got shut down. So what I did was I had a warehouse and my friend had a warehouse, so I said, "You know what, we're moving the party to the warehouse." I get there, and apparently the chaotic people that went to that party also went to that warehouse. So the cops came, and I was actually in a car with friends drinking and stuff. And when the cops came, I had about a hundred pills on me. So that was bad. I got caught with like a hundred pills. And that's pretty much what happened. It was a possession for sale of a schedule one substance, 3,4-Methylene​dioxy​amphetamine, which is a chemical name for MDMA.Cuauhtémoc: I didn't really try to avoid any persecution or prosecution. I told the cops straight up, "Hey, here's my college ID. I'm a chemical engineer. I do not manufacture these myself, but I do sell them to maintain my school expenses." My parents at the time were barely, barely making it, so I made a bad decision. I wanted to take care of the expenses through an illegal means.

Cuauhtémoc: Okay, so something that I love is chemicals. I actually studied a chemical engineering degree in SAC. I was very close to finishing. I got involved with MDMA. I wasn't manufacturing it, but I was selling it. Why? Well, I mean you could say with so much work in the States, why did you decide on doing this? Well, it was very easy for me to do. I loved doing it. Not so much in the sense that I loved the money, but I love studying the chemicals.Cuauhtémoc: Actually, prior to me doing it for recreational purposes, I was studying the effects on schizophrenic people. And I was doing the whole rave thing and I sold MDMA to pay for school. I was working, but I was doing 18 units. I don't know if you know how the school system in the US works, but 18 units is actually much more. I even did 20 units in some semesters. So you have the typical 12 units, I was doing 20. My chemistry class was a five-hour block so just imagine that. It was six units by itself, just the chemistry class with its lab. So, you have a six hour, [Sharp exhale], just huge block with 30-minute rest and I had critical thinking after—I had calculus and that was just a day.Cuauhtémoc: And man, I was there from eight in the morning to ten at night. And no, I'm not excusing myself, this is basically just my life as a student and I'd made the wrong decision. That's life. So I was a full time student from Monday through Thursday, on Fridays I would exercise because I had a stability ball class. I had a bunch of like exercise classes. So Saturdays and Sundays were pretty much my only days to generate income. So I would go in the mornings with my father to work the fields, landscaping all that good stuff. So during the evenings I would organize events and at the same time I had the pills with me so I would sell them. Do you want me to continue?

Claudia: And did people die?Cuauhtémoc: No, actually no. But some people did get hit and when that happened the guys in my party went to seek revenge and they did kill the dudes that shot.Claudia: Wow.Cuauhtémoc: And that was just a weekly thing. I mean, gang violence was very hardcore.

Claudia: And did people die?Cuauhtémoc: No, actually no. But some people did get hit and when that happened the guys in my party went to seek revenge and they did kill the dudes that shot.Claudia: Wow.Cuauhtémoc: And that was just a weekly thing. I mean, gang violence was very hardcore.

Cuauhtémoc: Nope. They came in a beat up car, they saw me, and I saw the Uzi just popped out. I throw myself on the ground and they just sprayed the party. They knew that it was predominantly…. because I was throwing it in a hood called F troop. F troop had their base around the park. So basically, what ended up happening was that I was not targeted, but I was throwing a party where it was like a gang, I guess very gang. So they just came and they just sprayed the party so I just tossed myself to the ground.

Cuauhtémoc: Okay, this is going to be a little long, I actually am very comfortable. I grew up in a not so nice part of the city at first. ____ California, is divided into from very ghetto to very nice. So I wouldn't say I grew up in the very ghetto, but the next level, which is ghetto. So, it was daily, on a daily basis, I heard gunshots. I saw people getting blasted with a gun. People were fighting on a daily basis. I too fought a lot. I dedicated myself to event coordinating and promoting. I would do house parties for money. So, I actually got shot at at my parties because I had a party crew, I guess you can say. A party crew is basically a crew of people who like to party and organize events but it was done with innocent intentions.

Cuauhtémoc: So, part of these people were indeed in gangs. I was surrounded by gangs my whole life, gang life was basically high school life. In high school, you had people fighting over high school. Gang members were like, "Okay, you're from middle side, you're from ___. So, who's you chilling with?” I chilled with both. They're like, "Nah, half these fools are in Nashalala." Always fighting, so I was always caught in the crossfire. Always. But I kept my essence strong. I brought my business and I had friends from all gangs and I got involved with all of them, but I wasn't in their gang activities, just their friends. You grew up with them as a young kid, so by the time you end up a grownup, they respect you, but they're like, "I'm a gang member you're not." Maybe you're walking down the street and you're seen, "Hi yo, what's up man? Why are you hanging out with that fool for? That fool is from this gang and you're my boy too but…” I have to fight a lot, a lot, a lot.

Claudia: You mentioned in your survey too that you were the victim of violent crime in the United States?Cuauhtémoc: Yeah, a lot of violent crimes actually.Claudia: Could you elaborate a little bit?Cuauhtémoc: Okay, this is going to be a little long, I actually am very comfortable. I grew up in a not so nice part of the city at first. ____ California, is divided into from very ghetto to very nice. So I wouldn't say I grew up in the very ghetto, but the next level, which is ghetto. So, it was daily, on a daily basis, I heard gunshots. I saw people getting blasted with a gun. People were fighting on a daily basis. I too fought a lot. I dedicated myself to event coordinating and promoting. I would do house parties for money. So, I actually got shot at at my parties because I had a party crew, I guess you can say. A party crew is basically a crew of people who like to party and organize ev

Cuauhtémoc: And the worst job I'd have to say was plumbing because you're just dealing with feces and stuff, it's a wet job. One time I was, “Boom,” when hit a PVC pipe and just water everywhere, dirty water. It's not a fun job, had to do it. And I didn't have to do it, the only things you have to do in this life are growing old and dying. Even breathing is a choice so I didn't have to do it. It was a necessity. Yes, a small necessity, but it got bread on the table.

Cuauhtémoc: And the worst job I'd have to say was plumbing because you're just dealing with feces and stuff, it's a wet job. One time I was, “Boom,” when hit a PVC pipe and just water everywhere, dirty water. It's not a fun job, had to do it. And I didn't have to do it, the only things you have to do in this life are growing old and dying. Even breathing is a choice so I didn't have to do it. It was a necessity. Yes, a small necessity, but it got bread on the table.

Cuauhtémoc: So, you have to do it in such a way that when you're replanting palm trees you have to be very careful not to expose the roots. If the air hits it for enough time, it's just going to die and it's sad seeing such a beautiful thing just rot. That's literally what happens: it rots. Sure, that rotting piece of a plant you can leave it there and eventually it'll come back to the ground. But I've had cases where when we had to replant palm tree and I just was hacking away and, "Oh no, you ruined it." Because I cut parts of the roots I wasn't supposed to, so it actually did hurt me. It's like, “Damn.”

Cuauhtémoc: Gardening by far because you work with mother earth. I called her mother because it's a very feminine energy. I mean, birth pretty much explains it. You look at fruit, fruit is feminine because it ... think about it, the seeds, it's very feminine. There's a lot of masculinity too, but I think that feminine energy is what allows us to ... I mean both are important and there's the yin and yang, but the fact that you get to work with it firsthand is beautiful. The fact that you work to keep something alive and to nurture it, I think that's a key element in understanding the way this works, this whole ecosystem works. The fact that you have to put a lot of love into the planting, you can't just toss it. No, hold on, treat us with care because some—las palmas—you can't just pop it out, the roots die immediately.

Cuauhtémoc: At the end of the day, I don't consider myself Mexican. I consider myself just a citizen of the world. Just a person, a human being with an elevated consciousness. The ego is something that really hurts you sometimes, it's good to be proud, but at the end of the day, we're just flesh and bone. We're in this temporary vessel we call body, the conscience is much higher. It radiates and goes beyond this three dimensional reality. But I'm human, I'm Mexican. Hey, I'm blessed is all got to say.

Cuauhtémoc: I just had the most amazing time ever. I met Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorans. I mean oh my God, I remember going to this Guatemalan friend's house—pupusas there [Sharpe Exhale] I just was eating and eating and his mom was just totally amazing. Well, actually I would have to say that high school was also super, super awesome due to the fact that just so much open-minded people. I mean you grow up with this, me personally, you grow up with this pride like, “Yo soy Mexicano,” and this and that, but you kind of humble down once you see your other Latino and the struggles that everybody goes through me. When you grow up as a Mexican-American—I guess I'm not Mexican-American I'm Mexican—but you grow up seeing how your Honduran brothers come from much farther away. You still have to cross Guatemala and Mexico and you hear them what they go through and like, "Holy crap." I had two friends that told me, "Hey man I came on a boat." It's harsh. It's horrible. And the fact that the situation back home is very, very hard.

Cuauhtémoc: I think that's what made my stay in the US the most beautiful thing ever. I lived in ___. ____ is pretty much the South—more of the richer, more high-income people that's mainly Caucasian. But luckily for me as a student, I have always had access to like parties and stuff, and I wasn't really discriminated ever. Actually, as a gardener you go work for these people, but they never had once say, "Hey you dirty Mexican do it." On the contrary, they would give us gifts sometimes since we did a very good job. There was a guy I used to work for in a mansion, like a small mansion, and the dude—I was thirteen for crying out loud, I was working—but the dude saw that I was playing with the dog. I wasn't really working. My pops would get very pissed because like, "Yo dude, we're here to work."

Cuauhtémoc: I know that when the hurricane hit Puerto Rico there's like a lot of people were left with nothing and I can relate. And that made me feel much better because when there's necessity in one part of the world, you kind of want to help. And the same thing with Haiti when the earthquake happened and now our earthquake. And it's like, wow, it makes you real close with people. So I'd have to say that overall, just high school and college were just amazing. Now the worst part well I mean pretty much when I got caught I guess.

Cuauhtémoc: I just had the most amazing time ever. I met Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorans. I mean oh my God, I remember going to this Guatemalan friend's house—pupusas there [Sharpe Exhale] I just was eating and eating and his mom was just totally amazing. Well, actually I would have to say that high school was also super, super awesome due to the fact that just so much open-minded people. I mean you grow up with this, me personally, you grow up with this pride like, “Yo soy Mexicano,” and this and that, but you kind of humble down once you see your other Latino and the struggles that everybody goes through me. When you grow up as a Mexican-American—I guess I'm not Mexican-American I'm Mexican—but you grow up seeing how your Honduran brothers come from much farther away. You still have to cross Guatemala and Mexico and you hear them what they go through and like, "Holy crap." I had two friends that told me, "Hey man I came on a boat." It's harsh. It's horrible. And the fact that the situation back home is very, very hard.

Cuauhtémoc: School, college in particular.

Claudia: And now if you'd have to pick what would you say was your best experience in the United States and what was the worst one?Cuauhtémoc: School, college in particular.Claudia: The best or the worst?Cuauhtémoc: The best by far. I've had so much amazing experiences in my community college. It was just, like I said, you grow up being told that a certain race is such a way. I had so much black friends, white friends, Asian friends, and they were all super, super awesome. I don't know if it's just me, I don't know if I just got lucky, but I had so much fun.

Cuauhtémoc: Yeah, actually the street was a cul-de-sac so the fact that it was a cul-de-sac would mean that it would double as a baseball field and as a soccer field. We would play all sorts of games there. It was such a beautiful setup. All my neighbors were like, after that fight, they recognized me. So I was recognized by the entire street and I made a lot of friends very quickly.

Claudia: My first question is how old were you when you went to the United States?Cuauhtémoc: Six years old approximately. Now, the reason why I say approximately is due to the fact that I don't remember a precise date, it's a little bit cloudy for me.

Olimpya: Nineteen. Yeah, nineteen. Then I got pregnant. I was like, "Okay. I'm just going to take care of my son, my family. I just want to have a family like my aunt's family in the US." That's what I wanted. I started working on that. I was really happy at that moment. I was pregnant. I was going to have my kid. I had my husband. He loved me. Everything was perfect, but then, this president with his political things came with the reforma energetica.

Olimpya: I lost my kidneys and so I was sick. I've just been trying to survive. I don't know if I learned or I just decided not to do more than I have to, to survive because whenever you try to do the best you can, people don't think the same way as you. My baby's dad don't think the same way as me. I don't know if he doesn't want the family that I want or worse. We don't have the same culture. When I started working, he used to get really mad. He used to get really jealous. He would be like, "Hey, no. Don't talk to this person. Don't talk to this person. No, you can't do that." Then I got ascended, ascent? Promotion.

Olimpya: A lot. He wants to live there too because we go to the parks here. There's only one park that we like here in Mexico City. It's really close our house because the other ones are really bad. They don't have grass. It's like, "You know what grass is, right?" He's like, "Yeah, I want to see grass, Mommy. I want to see grass." [Laughing]. I'm like, "Okay. Let's go find a park with grass," because they don't have grass. The playground is destroyed. It's bad.

Olimpya: I can't. [Chuckles]. If I could, yes. If I could, I would do it with the eyes closed. I'd be like, "Hey, I'll decide. I'll sell my life. I don't care." If that's going to give my son a better life, I would.

Olimpya: Yes. There's more time than life. That's something I want. I just want, even if it's for a day, just go back, step to United States, look around, and remember everything that happened to me there. I'll be happy. I'll be happy because I miss my house. I miss my family. [Emotional]. Even though I got most of my family here, it's not the same. They don't care about you. When I needed my kidney transplant, because I need one, and my mom told my family that if anybody wanted to donate, nobody answered. Nobody said, "Hey, I can't, but I'll pray for you." Nobody. They just changed the topic. When I told my family in the States that I needed a kidney, my smallest cousin, he's around eighteen, he said, "Hey, I'll give it to you" right away. It makes me feel like I don't need to see you every day to be family. You're not my family. My family is in the States. They are my family. They love me. They care about me.

Olimpya: No. Well, kind of. [Chuckles]. We used to fight a lot. His mom, even though I was working and giving all my money to our home… So we used to fight a lot because, even though I was working the whole day, I had to come back home, cook, clean, and do everything that a Mexican wife should do. Cook, clean, look after the kid, everything. They would say I would do nothing. I was sick, and I had to do everything. They didn't work. They didn't do clean. They wouldn't do anything. They would be attacking me all the time. His parents, him against me. So I just let it happen. I was just like, "Oh." Just do what I have to do for my kid.

Like that. I don't know if I was weak, [Chuckle] if I'm a weak woman or not, or it was too much what I had to do in that stage, but I ended up losing my baby. I lost my kidney. I lost both of my kidneys.

Olimpya: Yeah. I will get a really big bruise even if you go like that. So I had to stay in bed for a really long time, and I got medicated. I couldn't go to school. I lost a year. Then I tried to go back, and then I got pregnant. I was like, "Okay. This is not for me."

Olimpya: Yeah. My blood is like water. Be like water. Then if you touch me like that, even if you go like that, you will see a big... I don't know how you say moretón. Bruise?

Olimpya: But then, I met this guy who is my baby's dad. He was from the best kids there were because you could find worse. He would be like, "No, go in your classes. Be good. You're a lady. Don't do this. Don't do that." So I was like, "Hey, he's protecting me." I found somebody to protect me, to look after me. So I started listening to him, and I tried to finish school, but then I got really sick. I had a weird sickness in my blood, and I couldn't go to school no more.

Olimpya: By the time we would leave the school, we would go eat and get drunk again. Basically, that year, I was really drunk the whole time. My mom, she noticed that, what was going on. She said, "No, I'm taking you out of that school. It's too expensive and you're not doing anything. You already flunk every single class." I was like, "Okay, no. Cooking class is good." She would get mad at me, really mad. She's like, "No, you're going to another school, not so expensive, so you can value what you have. Come on." So she signed me up in another school. It was less money where she used to pay. The kids were other level. It wasn't beer. It was tequila. It was everything you can find. [Chuckles].

Olimpya: I think I changed my attitude a little bit. I said, "Okay. If I'm going to stay here, I'm going to do everything so when I'm older, I can leave this place." [Chuckles]. That was what I was always thinking about. After I finished middle school, I went onto high school. I was studying tourism. It was really cool, but then I got some friends that weren't really nice. [Chuckles]. So, I remember that's when I met alcohol. The school was really open. They wouldn't check on your backpacks. They wouldn't check on you like, "It's your responsibility to come to school, stay in school, and do your work. It's not ours. It's yours." Basically, what we used to do in the mornings, we had to be at school at 5:00 AM because we used to cook in the morning. Then around 7:00—we had, 7:00 to 8:00, a break. So we would call breakfast, but most of the time, when we would go breakfast, we would buy beers or stuff like that, and put it in cups and stuff. We would go back to school and be drinking during classes. So by 12:00, we were drunk. [Chuckles]. We wouldn't do anything. We would just be, "Yeah, yeah." Trying to study, but not doing nothing at all.

Olimpya: Yeah. Every time I pass that because I live really close, and every time I pass by the school, I get really mad. I still have problems with that because it's like... It gets me really mad. I was an excellent student in California and here, when I got here, I barely passed the year. It would get me frustrated because I was like, "Hey, I already saw this back in the States. This was third-grade things." I'm like, "Come on," but I couldn't remember. I couldn't do it even though I knew I could, and I knew it. It was really frustrating for me. I was just—

Olimpya: I spent a week at home. My mom was really mad at me because she said I was taking everything in a really bad attitude, that it was just an attitude problem because I wanted to go back, but it was impossible. I was like, "It's not that. It's just that you don't take me in consideration. You don't see what's going on in my life. You're not looking at everything. This is not a place for me. If I was saved once by my aunt that keep me from everything that's going on right now with me, I shouldn't be going through this. She did so much for me, so I didn't have to go through this. And look at me where I am. The school is horrible. It's a jail." I can show you. Well, right now, it's not that bad because they fix it up, but when I was there, it was horrible. [Chuckling].

Olimpya: I really tried. I tried really hard, but since I was really trying to learn English because first, so I was like, "Okay, it's hard." [Laughs]. But I kind of understand because my friends didn't speak English really well, so we were like, "Uh." We make hand signs so it was fun. [Laughs].

They're doing this. They're ripping my books. They're hitting me. They're pushing me. They can't do that to somebody and expect to just stay there." They didn't care. The principal was like, "No, you're suspended. You're leaving."

Anita: So, what you watched on the streets, the gangs, you took on the—Olimpya: I basically... And I was mad.Anita: You didn't do it in the States, but you did it in Mexico.Olimpya: I was really mad because I had so much things on me on that moment, and it was so hard that I was like, "Oi. Fuck it. I'm just going to go and do what I have to do. I'm not going to let them hit me." So I hit them back. She got really bad because I hit her really bad. Since I didn't have stitches or anything, I was the one that got suspended and they didn't do anything to her. I was like, "I was just defending myself." It was like, "I don't care. You did this." "I did it, but why? You need to look at the background. Why did this happen? They're calling me names every single day. They're doing this. They're ripping my books. They're hitting me. They're pushing me. They can't do that to somebody and expect to just stay there." They didn't care. The principal was like, "No, you're suspended. You're leaving."

Olimpya: I don't need to be like another person to come from the States. You need to understand that. Thousands of people go to States to have a better life, and then they need to come back. Why are you being so rude if they don't treat us like that? If I'm at my home country, why you being so rude? They start calling me really bad nicknames. They'll start stealing my stuff, my backpack, my books, everything. I would go to the bathroom, come back, and I wouldn't find my notebooks. I was like, "Okay. Just give it back." Then since they noticed I wouldn't respond to that, they would start getting aggressive, getting in front of me, calling me names, saying bad words and stuff. I would just turn around and leave. Since I wouldn't respond to that, they would start getting physical. They would pass by and push me or punch me or do something. Once I got mad because I was sitting down studying, they came and pulled my chair from the back. I fell off, and this girl started punching me. So I was like, "Hey, I need to protect myself now." So I did, and I got expelled because of that.

Olimpya: Then they said, "Okay. You need to study. You're going back to school." I was like, "Okay. At least, I get to have more friends, right?" Once I go to school, they signed me up, I was like, "Mom, you're not going to leave me here. They're going to do something to me. They're going to kill me. They can kill me or violate me. This is not a school." It was a really, really, really bad school. If you look at a jail in a school, that was my school. [Chuckles]. They didn't have windows like this. I don't know. It was bad. The principal, for some reason, she said that I came to Mexico as an exchange to study. So they thought I was an American girl like tall, blond, blue-eyed girl, and that wasn't me. [Chuckles]. Once they present me at school like that, and once they saw me, they were like, "You don't come from the States." Like, "Well, I do. I wasn't born there, but I do come from the States. I basically come from there." Like, "No, you don't. You're just a Oaxaqueña." Start calling me names again, "You're brown. You're short. You're skinny."

Olimpya: It's really weird. [Chuckles]. I was like, "Hey, but I don't want to go back with you." So she made me come back. Once I get here, I see my family. They do that to me, and I was like, "Ugh." So I started getting mad inside. I didn't like anything. When I got home, I was like, "Hey, this thing is really small," because, in the States, house are really big. And here in Mexico, they're really small apartments. I was, "Hey, where am I going to live? I need my space." So I started being really rude. I started being a bad girl.

Olimpya: ... or about anything about myself. Nothing. If I was short, they would be like, "Hey, you're really cute. You're really short." They would compliment the way I am. And here, it was the opposite. They would be like, "Hey, you're really short. Hey, you're brown. Hey, you're... I don't know. I don't like you." They would be like that, and it was starting from my family, so it hurt. I was like, "How come in a country where I'm not like them, they wouldn't say nothing about me? And here, they're attacking me?" You know? So that was the first hit. I didn't want to come at all. I was like, "Hey, mom. You go back and you let my aunt and uncle... They'll adopt me. They'll give me the papers, and I'll go visit you." That was the easiest way for me, but she said, "No, you got to come back with me because if you don't come with me, they're not going to accept me back in Mexico." Like my dad, at the house.

Olimpya: [Chuckle]. It has been since day one. I remember I used to live in California. You know California has the best sun ever. [Laughs]. I used to live in the pool. After school, pool. I remember I got really dark. When I came back, it was around summertime, so I was really dark. I got here, I got out of the airplane, I saw my dad and my two sisters. When they saw me, the first thing they said was, "Hey, you're dark." I was like, "Yeah. Hello. [Laughing]. What's the problem?" They're like, "No, we need to buy some creams to lighten your skin and we need to..." I was like, "Hey, I like my skin. I'm bronzed. I'm from California. What are you talking about? I'm brown. I'm Mexican. What are you expecting? [Laughing]." So, it kind of hurt. At the beginning, when they said it, I start joking about it, but inside of me, I knew it hurt because nobody in the United States, nobody said something about my skin color before—

Olimpya: Being undocumented? I didn't think about it. I never thought about it. I was just living my life, being happy. [Chuckles]. I don't know if I was too small and I didn't see more than my little world, that it was going to be hard for me to join the army or it was going to be hard to me going to college, I was just live in the moment. I never thought—nobody asked me about my papers, none of my friends, family, nobody. I was just there being me in America. [Laughs].

Olimpya: Yeah, that was my path.Anita: Why?Olimpya: I wanted to serve the country that has given me a lot, the best thing that I lived. I just wanted to do it [Softly]. I thought it was a nice way to thank for everything that happened to me while I was there, for the protection because I was protected. Because I know people are scared of the police because we are undocumented and everything, but every time I saw a police, I was like, "Hey, thank you. You're taking care of me." [Laughing]. And the firefighters, I was like, "Hey, you're the best." Every time I saw somebody dressed in the army uniform, I was like, "Damn. I want to be them. Just want to look like that. I want to do that." That was my biggest dream.

Olimpya: My first year of high school, I almost finished it, but my mom decided to come back. She said that it was time. I was like, "It's your time, not mine. You can leave." [Laughs]. Yeah, but she said that she didn't want to be there anymore. Since I was underage, so I had to grab my stuff. It was kind of the same way that we came. One day, she was talking on the phone. Then she woke me up and said, "We're leaving."

Olimpya: We used to live there. Then my aunt used to live in ___, California. It's a really nice little town and really American. So, when I got there, I was like, "Hey, I like it here." [Chuckles]. When I got to school, also the kids were different, there weren't gangs, and I was able to choose my friends. My aunt always used to make fun of me because I used to have all types of friends, Americans, Mexicans, Korean, Japanese, everything. You would see me with my friends, and you would like [Chuckles]. Because you see, normally, they separate the Mexicans from everybody else. I would speak with everybody. I wouldn't care.

Olimpya: So my mom said, "Yes," and it was the best decision she ever made because my aunt, I was her daughter. I'm still her daughter. We call each other. We talk a lot. She saved my life because I was already starting to go with the girls. I was in sixth grade when I moved in with my aunt. I remember that they were already starting with the girl gangs, and all that stuff, and fighting. I didn't like it because I was like, "Hey, why fight? We can play. We can do something else.” [Chuckles]. But, no, they liked to fight. So they will be fighting and if you wanted to be their friends, you had to do it. I remember one. The first fight I went to, I was standing in the back. [Chuckles]. So they started fighting, and I was like, "I'm just going to leave." Then the police came, so everybody started running. I was like, "Why are you running?" [Chuckles]. I would just sit down, and I was just like, "Okay. Well, I'm not doing anything. I'm just sitting down here." They came. Then they asked me, "What was going on?" I was like, "They started fighting. I was sitting." Since they saw I wasn't scratch or anything, they were like, "Okay. Just go home." I remember that fight because they ripped out an earring. There was a lot of blood. Then somebody bite somebody's eyebrow, and I was like, "What?"

Olimpya: Yeah. It's our birthday. [Laughs]. So, we were born on the same day, and we didn't know it. We were just like, "Huh." But she used to take care of me a lot. If she would see me doing nothing, she was like, "Oh, come here. I'll teach you something." So she would pull me a lot to everywhere. If it was vacationsand I was at home alone—because my brothers were already old, and they're guys, so they're doing their thing—she would be like, "Hey, come to my house. Stay here for the vacations," and I would go with her. She's a Christian, and they got a lot of activities on vacations like Bible school, this, and that, so I used to love going over there. She started pulling me and pulling me until one day she told my mom, "Hey, she's growing up. She needs to have somebody that takes care of her 24/7. You work a lot. Let her live with us. She's your kid. You can see whenever you want, but let her live with us. We'll give her everything that you can't give her at the moment."

Olimpya: [Laughs]. I was a happy kid. No, because even though we were a small family, like my mom, my brothers, my aunt, uncle, cousins, and my grandparents, we were very unite. We used to love to spend time with each other. My aunt, she's like my angel. It's really fun because we were born on the same day.

Olimpya: Yeah, I was happy because I would get to do everything I wanted to. If I wanted to play football, I would play football. If I wanted to do this, track days, everything, I could do it because it was there for me. [Chuckles]. I used to like it. I would just get home, eat, finish my homework, and then go to another activity. So I was always busy, always busy, always busy. I don't know. That would keep my mind going. Here, you barely get physical education, so imagine the change. [Chuckles]

Olimpya: Great. The best. [Chuckles]. I used to love school there because I remember you—in the morning until 3:00 in the afternoon, something like that—will actually learn. I was really bad at math. I know that. [Laughs]. But I remember in middle school, there was a teacher that will give afterschool classes for the ones that needed help. So I would stay. You would see me the whole week there, an hour, two hours, studying, studying, studying, but I will actually learn. I went from an F, [Chuckle] because I was really bad, to a B+ in one month because I was actually learning. I used to play the violin. I used to play basketball. I used to love all those activities that you got in school. I was happy in school. If I would live there, I was happy.

Olimpya: Well, my grandpa and my grandma. We didn't live with them, but they lived next door. So they would check on us. My aunt and uncle, I lived for a really long time with them. Basically, they used to help each other a lot. If my mom wasn't home, they would check on us and if they weren't home, my mom would check on them. They would help a lot.

Olimpya: Factories. She used to work in factories in morning and then at afternoon, and then during the night. It was really weird. [Chuckles]. She used to sleep around one hour a day, one or two hours a day, go work and come back. It was really hard for her.

Olimpya: Growing up in the USA was awesome. [Laughs]. Yeah, it was the best years of my life. Right now, I can sit down and think about it. I was happy. That was what being happy was: like, having your family, the family that you love there for you, and you being there for them. Everything that we went through, it was awesome. I can say we were poor because my mom, she was a single mom with three kids, she had three jobs. We barely see her, but the times that we were sitting down at the table eating together, it was the best times of our lives or a Sunday, we could go swimming. It was just great. We enjoyed life more than here. You have to work, and work, and work. You're never going to get what you're looking for.

Olimpya: Well, the schools, they're better. They teach you more things. They actually teach them. That's what I used to like about the States. The activities. Here, it's really hard for a single mom or a mom to take your kids to any activity because the ones that are for free, they're really bad, and whenever you have to pay, it's hard to access even if you don't have to pay that much. The ones that are really good, it's not affordable for middle-class families. So it makes you get mad. Well, it makes me get mad because I'm like, "Hey, he needs to have access to this. He's a really intelligent kid, and I'm not giving him the tools to grow, and to learn, and do everything he's going to be able to." Yeah, it's hard.

Olimpya: Yeah, it brings me back memories because I see him and I see a lot of me in him. I know some mom and the dad, but when I see him, I'm like, "Hey, I used to do that," or, "Oh my God. I used to do that. If we were in the States, he could do this or that. He could be better." Sometimes it hurts because I know there's something better for him, but I can't give it.

Anita: So just on that, what's it like to have a son who's the same age as when you left? Does it bring you back?Olimpya: Yeah, it brings me back memories because I see him and I see a lot of me in him. I know some mom and the dad, but when I see him, I'm like, "Hey, I used to do that," or, "Oh my God. I used to do that. If we were in the States, he could do this or that. He could be better." Sometimes it hurts because I know there's something better for him, but I can't give it.

Olimpya: Yeah. Yeah. My son is in first grade, so he is about the age when I left. Last week, he came to me. He's like, "Hey, mom. I need to tell you something, but you're going to get really mad." I was like, "Okay. Tell me." I thought he did something bad. He's like, "I'm in love." [Laughing]. So, I was just like, "Hold on. I was expecting something else." So he's like, "I'm in love." I'm like, "Okay. That's not bad. I'm not going to get mad at it." "Wait, mom. It gets worse.” I'm like, "Okay." "She's in third grade." [Chuckles]. So, I was like, "Okay. She's old for him," but inside of me, I thought about it, right? I was like, "Okay. I'm not going to tell him ‘No, you can't, because you're too small, because she's a girl. She's too big.’ No." I was like, "Okay. That's fine. She's a girl. You're a boy. What's the problem?" He's like, "Are you sure?" I'm like, "Yeah. You like her. Be nice to her. Buy her a chocolate, a rose. Be nice. Respect her." So, he looked at me and he's like, "Can I write a letter for her?" I was like, "Go ahead." So instead of teaching him to not respect girls since he's that small, it's like turning it around. Respect her. If you like her, respect her. That's it.

Olimpya: Yeah. Yeah. My son is in first grade, so he is about the age when I left. Last week, he came to me. He's like, "Hey, mom. I need to tell you something, but you're going to get really mad." I was like, "Okay. Tell me." I thought he did something bad. He's like, "I'm in love." [Laughing]. So, I was just like, "Hold on. I was expecting something else." So he's like, "I'm in love." I'm like, "Okay. That's not bad. I'm not going to get mad at it." "Wait, mom. It gets worse.” I'm like, "Okay." "She's in third grade." [Chuckles]. So, I was like, "Okay. She's old for him," but inside of me, I thought about it, right? I was like, "Okay. I'm not going to tell him ‘No, you can't, because you're too small, because she's a girl. She's too big.’ No." I was like, "Okay. That's fine. She's a girl. You're a boy. What's the problem?" He's like, "Are you sure?" I'm like, "Yeah. You like her. Be nice to her. Buy her a chocolate, a rose. Be nice. Respect her." So, he looked at me and he's like, "Can I write a letter for her?" I was like, "Go ahead." So instead of teaching him to not respect girls since he's that small, it's like turning it around. Respect her. If you like her, respect her. That's it.

Olimpya: Yeah, but I have both cultures. My way of thinking is really weird because I am very domestic. I love to cook. I love to take care of my son. I love to take care of my husband. I love to take care of my house. But if I need to go work because my husband needs help or anything happens, I'll do it. I don't mind. I can work. I know how to do this. I know I'm really smart, and I know I'm capable of doing. I know I can do things on my own, but if there's no need to, I can stay out. [Chuckles]. That's what I want, not because they're forcing me too.

Anita: A lot of people have told us about domestic violence. Why do you think there's so much domestic violence?Olimpya: Culture.Anita: Tell me. What do you think? Say more.Olimpya: Well, here in Mexico, girls or women, we're raised to serve. We're not raised to think or do something on our own because it's dangerous for us. But it's weird because if we stay at home, it's dangerous as well. [Chuckles]. Men here think that we are weak, that we're not able to, that we're not capable. So they don't let us do what they think we can't. That's basically it. And since we're raised by Mexican women. So, me as a woman, I have a son. I need to teach him how to respect and let a girl be, but all girls here, they're not the same. They think, "No, you're a girl, you need to serve. You're a boy, they serve you." Then the daughter-in-law comes, and then she's like, "No, you need to serve my son. You need to do this for my son." So it's education basically, ignorance.

Olimpya: Yeah, but not that much. At the beginning, it was really weird to talk to him because my mom didn't want him to know that we were over there, so it was once a month maybe? Then after that, we tried to contact him, but he was working or with his new family and this lady wouldn't let us talk to him. Every time I call, she would say, "Ah, he's not here.” I could hear his voice on the back, so I was like, "I know he's here." So she wouldn't let... so things like that.

Anita: So, it was just you who went with your mom?Olimpya: No. My two brothers and I.Anita: So, somebody stayed behind though? You say your sisters?Olimpya: Yeah. Well, I got two more sisters and two more brothers. They're older. But they're not my mom's. They're my dad's, but we grew up together, so we're really..

Olimpya: It was kind of confusing because I was happy because they told me about Disneyland and all this stuff. I was really happy about that, but then you look back, and you're like, “My dad, my sisters, my house, my toys, my things, what's going to happen?" I was happy during the day because I wouldn't think about it, but at nights, I used to have really bad dreams about it, about leaving my dad, about everything.

I wouldn't think about it, but at nights, I used to have really bad dreams about it, about leaving my dad, about everything.

Olimpya: Yeah. One day to another, we were already on the road. [Chuckles].Anita: Wow.Olimpya: Yeah. We were on the mobile home with my uncle and his family. We were setting off to Ciudad Juárez. So that's why basically.

Olimpya: My mom used to have a lot of domestic violence problems with my dad. So normally, we would be leaving the house, and come back, and come and go. But one day, my uncle, who's an American citizen, came to Mexico for a vacation. It was in the meantime when we were out of the house. So my mom saw him. They talked about what was going on, how he can help, and one day, my mom said, "You know what? We're leaving." So we grabbed a couple of clothes, shoes, and we left.

Olimpya: Yes, here in—Anita: Here in Mexico City.Olimpya: [Affirmative noise].

Anita: How old were you when you left for the US?Olimpya: I was small. I was around five or six years. I was in first grade.

Melani: Because I have ambition for my career, and I've always really wanted this career. It's the same career my dad wanted. He wanted to be a politician, and I really wanted it too, not because of him, but because I would see how people would live and then I would be like ... in my own country it's even worse.I just want to make a change. I want it to be better. I feel like the only way to make a difference here is not what the president, the new one, is doing. I feel like you have to get at everything from the root and change.

Melani: Yes. I think I will never go back and live in the US. I would visit because that's where I feel like I belong, but I feel like I'm needed elsewhere. And I would really love to have an opportunity to work in the Senate or the Congress, or work in the consulate of Mexico in another country.

Melani: No. When I called my parents, they were like, "Do you recommend [coming back]?" My dad's been gone for twenty years. He's like, "Maybe because we've been gone for that long, maybe things have changed, especially with the new president." But I said, "No. Nothing has changed, and I don't even know how it was back then, but it's horrible now. So I think you should just stay.” [Sometimes] my dad tells me over the phone, "I've been gone for so long -- since I was nineteen -- that I feel like if I go back, I won't even feel like it's my home.” He's just so used to the culture there -- that's what he grew up with in his adult years.

Anita: Have you been depressed?Melani: Recently, yes.

Anita: Bureaucratic difficulties?Melani: Yes, so many.

Anita: Adapting to Mexican culture?Melani: Yes. It's really tough.Anita: Have you faced discrimination?Melani: Yes.

Melani: Yes. When I first came here, I didn't understand almost anything they told me. Like I said, when I was learning English, I would just learn it by ear, and right now I'm learning [Spanish] by ear, but I still struggle sometimes to understand what they're trying to tell me. I tell them to say it maybe three or four times to me because I really don't understand.

Melani: Whenever I say I would like to be independent. I told my grandparents, "You know what, I'm really thankful for my stay here, but I would like to grow independent."In Arkansas, everybody leaves at 18. They go to study and they really never go back. And I told my grandparents, "Well that's how things happen back home and that's how I've grown and known that you should live life.” And they said, "Well, no. Here we do things differently. Here you stay until you're married."And they'll implement Catholicism really deep into you. They'll be like, "You need to pray to all the saints and stuff because if you're not with God, then you don't know what family is." And I'm like, "Well I think there should be separation of state and religion, and family and religion, because it's two different things. You can't mix things like that together.”

Melani: Well, my dad knew a lot of people that worked in construction and he would always be like, "Oh, could you get me a job with your employer?" and they would be like, "Yes." So he would go from one job to another in construction, and it was seasonal, temporary. So it would be for winter months and summer months -- roofing and sheet rocking and stuff like that. Sometimes he would get paid, sometimes he wouldn't get paid, and sometimes he worked in restaurants, but they would always want to pay him less—half of the minimum wage or less.

Melani: Yes with illegals. Exactly the same, because I would remember my dad going to work for two or three weeks and him asking for his pay and never getting paid because they would be like, "I know where you live, I know what your name is, and I can report you to ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] right now."

Melani: 6,500 pesos per month, and they give you commissions. But they always trick you and they always keep your money. So it's not really beneficial to work there.And I said, “Well fine. I guess I can't find a job and I don't really know anyone around here. So I'll take the job with my aunt, since I know I'll be with family.” I took it, but when I got there I hated it because they discriminated [against] me because of my Spanish. They would talk behind my back. And they had no respect towards employees because there's a lot of classism in Mexico, and if you're not in an upper class or have a high position in society, then you're nobody and they treat you like if you were their slave.

I soon realized that jobs here aren't like jobs back home. Jobs here are very… they pay you very little. They pay you what my mom or my dad would get in like two days. I would get 6,500 pesos for a whole month, and I would start at eight in the morning. I only worked there for five days, or I'll just say a week.

And I was like, "Okay, I'll study again, one or two years of high school since I don't have certain classes that they require, and I have to take their admission test as well.” I [told myself], " I feel like that would have been a waste of my time when everybody my age is already starting to go to college." And I said, "Okay, I might be able to do this."

I met her and it's just ... I didn't really feel a connection there because I never really talked to her. I don't think I ever spoke to her once in my life. I know I spoke to my mom's parents and her grandparents because they came to visit us, but it wasn't ... they would visit and stay for a week or two, but I really never felt anything because it'd be like, oh, they're your grandparents, but you never had much time to spend with them or have experiences with them, if it's such a limited time they're with you.

But I said, "No. I have to go." [Cries] I’m sorry. So I left and I came here, and my grandma was waiting for me in the airport - she called me. She's like, "Do you see me?" But I'd never ever seen how she looked, not even in a picture. So I got into the airport and I was like, "Where are you? I can't find you," and she said, "I don't see you either." She was right in front of me, literally [Laughs], and I said, "Oh." And she's like, "I have blonde hair and I have a red shirt and jeans on. Can you find me?" And I was like, "Oh my goodness! It was the lady just in front of me.”

Melani: I remember leaving and my dad calling me when I was in the waiting room for the flight. He said, "You know what? Just turn around and come back. We'll fix it. We'll find something. [Starts crying] we'll find you a job and we might be able to pay for college."

Anita: So [reading the survey questions] you qualified for DACA but you didn't apply?Melani: No.Anita: Because?Melani: It was risky.

Melani: Yes. Yes. I think you really don't get an advantage from it because you might be able to work, have a driver's license, have an ID, but they'll overcharge you for college. An immigrant will never be able to get the amount of money [for college that they need], especially if they're illegal.

Melani: The Hispanic ones like La Opinión or Latino Times, [Pause] Since my coalition would partner up with them and give them all the information, because my coalition would go talk to senators, the governor, and everyone else, and we also went to New Orleans and Arizona to fight for people's rights, and even to Washington DC.

Melani: York University and Winnipeg University and I also applied to the University of Ottawa, where I also got in. But since Douglas University gave me a full scholarship for two years, I said I'll choose that one, and those [the other colleges] were partial scholarships.

Melani: DACA, it wouldn't really work for me because I could only work with that and I couldn't study. And what I wanted to do was study and actually be able to travel and visit new places and have more opportunities and not just be stuck in one place.

So, my parents would be scared and they also…we saw the limitations. You would have to pay three times the tuition and you couldn't really get a lot of scholarships. So, there was no way for me to go to college if I would have to pay so much—even more than what my parents would receive in a year, because my parents would receive like $20,000 or less a year.

Anita: Yeah. [Pause] let's continue [with the survey] and we'll come back to this. I totally get you. Did you follow US news when you were in the states?Melani: Yes.Anita: How did you follow it? Through family and friends, social media, TV, radio, newspapers?Melani: Newspapers and TV, and I also worked in a coalition which helped immigrants. I was there for four years and I helped kids apply for DACA [Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals] and stuff. I never applied because I was scared. My parents told me I shouldn't apply since you have to go give all your fingerprints and your information. They said, “What if it all falls down and we're the first ones to get deported?”

Melani: Yes.

Melani: Both my parents.

Melani: I just finished my high school diploma, yeah.

Melani: He would like…if he received anything from his dad, he would later on tell him that everything he had is because of him. He’d be in debt forever.Anita: So it wasn't a great reunion?Melani: [Negative sound] no, my dad had never met him in all his life. He was 19 when he left.

Melani: No, my grandfather was a US citizen, but we never got anything from him because it was the first time my dad had ever met him and he didn't want to receive any of his help because he would charge him later on.

Melani: They said that the coyote told them that he was going to call them at seven as soon as they got there, but they never called them and they didn't know where to look because they had no other contact with him whatsoever. Until later on that night, they said that they got a call from him at four in the morning and my mom was already scared, but they couldn't go to any authority because it was something illegal to do. So they just picked me up and they just paid him off and then it was over.

Anita: Before they dressed you like a boy, did you have long hair?Melani: Yes I did [Affirmative sound], but they cut it all off so I could cross with them [Affirmative sound].Anita: You were two?

Melani: Yeah, so my parents thought I was already sold to the organ trade or something. My mom was scared and then she found the coyote but they had issues crossing and everything.

Melani: I crossed through with a car in the desert. Well they had a contact that they had a kid that was around my age and they made me go through as a boy. And so—Anita: Really?Melani: Yes. As someone else's child. I got dressed up as a boy so I could cross the border with this other person, and my parents told me that I was supposed to be in San Antonio at seven at night because that's what the coyote told my parents, and they didn't find me until four in the morning.

Anita: Okay. How did you cross the border? Did you have a visa or did you just cross the border?Melani: Both my parents had work permits and they paid a coyote to cross me.

Anita: Why did you migrate to the United States?Melani: My dad wanted to have a job in Arkansas because his biological father was living there.

Anita: Okay. Sorry. Did you go to school in Mexico before you went to the States?Melani: Never.

Miguel: To return? Well for the US they should not just put fake felonies on you for example. Because I know they just kind of put stuff together and they're like, "Okay, here." But they can do a little bit more research on that and actually see what happened. If I got deported for that one reason, they could have just done a little bit more research instead of rushing through. That's what they can do better.

Miguel: Yeah, because I didn't want to stay there any longer and I didn't want to stay there for a year to fight the case. I'm just going to be like, “You know what, whatever. Just deport me for 10 years. I'm not able to go back for 10 years, well nine more years.” So, I'm like, “Okay, whatever. I'll just live my life.”

Miguel: The US? I mean people in the US, even in my parents, I see that they see Mexico as very dangerous, very dark place to live. So they shaped me to believe into something that is not true. Completely not true. Actually the opposite. Coming to Mexico made me see that it was amazing to be here. It's actually a little bit more safer than over there. Over there, everywhere around the world, you get jumped, whatever. But over here, I mean I have been jumped before, but I still rather get jumped here than over there. It's a weird thing to say, but it's true because over there they won't think twice of killing you to say the least. I mean they bring guns to school. They're a little bit more violent in the US than here and they think here is violent. No, it's just we're more open showing you dead bodies on newspapers than I've noticed in over there. Over there, they were a little bit more like babying you and sugar coating it.

Miguel: For me, surprisingly it wasn't that difficult. Adapting to a different environment was pretty easy for me. Since back in the US it was pretty difficult. For here, I just saw it as a new beginning, a new way for me to start build my life, be an adult. I'm adult, write my own story. And, for me, that was a little bit exciting. My parents are still a little bit sad that I'm not with them, but for me to open my wings, I see it that way. For me to start a new life, basically. And I did.

Miguel: So, I went to their house. They were asking me a few questions—my Spanish wasn't so well back then like it is now. And they said “Hi,” they introduced themselves. Of course, I knew off the bat it was my dad's family, him and his brother look so much alike. And I took a shower. It was very different because their home is a little bit more from when my dad was younger. They had the house since forever. They had a boiler in the back and stuff like that. It was very different customs here than over there. They had a washer, but it was very different. I was like a little bit in shock still where I was. I'm like "Okay." At first they were strangers to me, so I was like "Uh.”

Miguel: How did I travel? Bus, all bus. It was long ride [Chuckle], a very long ride, it took like 17 hours. I was like "Wow." I was super tired when I was looking for my grandparents. I saw my grandfather and I didn't know. I knew him, but I didn't recognize him. So, some people were helping—Sergio: Was that the first time you net your grandfather?Miguel: Yes, since I was four, so I don't remember him, I don't remember him at the time.

Miguel: No, I felt out of place in the US. I know people are, "Oh, it's the big dream." I'm like, "Yeah, but it's not the same as here."

Miguel: They gave me food. They took care of me. They had a smile on their face. They made me feel like I was an actual person and I didn't feel that for a while.

Miguel: It was like my world just turned upside down for the better. It was something different. It was like seeing the light at the end of the tunnel to be honest. Seeing something... People, so warming, so welcoming, people that will actually want... Feeling wanted in a place. It was different for me than living in the US. I didn't feel, basically, wanted there. I would have to look for it in people themselves. But feeling wanted in a place that is all around you, it's something amazing.

Miguel: Basically, to summarize it a little bit, I got into the wrong crowd when I was partying a lot—this happened after a breakup. I found someone at a frat party, a house party with a lot of people there. You know how frat parties are. Basically, I didn't know the girl at the time, and we became close, but later realized she's not a very good person to be around with. It was like, "You know what? This isn't very good. I have to stop hanging out with you. I'm sorry, can't be friends can't hang out. I have to delete you from my life basically." I blocked her on everything. She did not like that. She came back to the point where basically she told people that I did something to her that I didn't. For a year I fought the case, but they saw me as “Well, foreign person, we'll just kick them out, whatever.” And that's when Trump just came to power as a president. So I'm like, "Oh great, that's not good for me."

Miguel: The judge was like, "So, she got deported at four years old? And crossed the border back to the US, like crossing the desert and all?" They're like, "Yeah, you got deported." And I'm like, "No, I would have remembered a terrible desert and being hungry and sick and maybe, you know, I would remember that. That's traumatizing for a kid. No, I never been deported." So, they were like, "Okay, well whatever" [Weak chuckle]. I was like, "All right, well that makes no sense but okay." But then I got even more angry because they were trying to get rid of me. I was like, "Okay, well I just want my deportation order, just give me my deportation." They were like, "Okay, we'll get you your deportation." That was it.

Miguel: The other thing that I found out was they added actually felonies to my thing, to have an actual reason to deport me. When I went to court, I saw that they were like, "Oh, I see that you got deported before." I'm like, "No, I never got deported before. That's when I was in court before I got deported.’ And they were like, "Yeah, I see here. You were deported before when you were four years old." And I'm like, "No, I was not. I would have remembered that." And of course the person opposite that wanted me out would be like, "Well yeah, maybe you were too young to remember." I was kind of mad. So I was like, "I'm pretty sure I would remember that. It's kind of traumatizing for a kid to get deported, even for an adult it's traumatizing."

Miguel: So poor, it was poor. There was writings on the wall, there was toilet paper, piss everywhere. Excrement. I mean they didn't really clean that well in the holding cell. They cleaned more in the detention center than the holding cell. The thing that I've noticed was actually, when they would detain people, I would see that the guards there would be like, "Hey look, this is nice belt. You want to keep it?" They would keep the stuff that they would take from the immigrants. So I'll be like, "Okay, that's kind of messed up. That's not yours, that's theirs." But I couldn't really do anything.

Sergio: How long were you in the holding cell?Miguel: For me, it felt for eternity, but it was like five, six, seven hours.Sergio: Five, six, seven hours?Miguel: Five to seven hours, between that. You lose time because you don't have a clock or anything in there. So you don't know.