Miguel: 10 to 12 days, I believe.

Miguel: Yeah, that's when they were like, "Oh, we're here." They threw the food at the ground and threw our stuff at the ground so we can pick it up. And they were like, "Okay, well there's a border, walk." And we will have to pick up our food from the ground and walk over there and they will have their guns. So if anyone would try to turn around and go back to the border to the US border, they will shoot you. So, I was like, "Well, I don't want to go back over there." So, I went ahead and just took my stuff, left, and they greeted me with like open arms to Mexico.

Miguel: That's when everything started to fall in place. I felt lighter on my feet. I still miss my family, but they're a little bit more crushed than I was. Finally, my time there came to an end. They woke me up one morning and I got to leave. I went ahead and left. They put me in a van. In the van it was pretty hot. The women will be in one side and the men will be in the back side and there'll be like a gate in the middle so we won't do anything to each other or they won't hurt us. So they separated the men from the women. When it was about what, five, four hours to get to [foreign language, location].

Miguel: Yeah, the holding cell is totally different. They wake you up like at three o'clock in the morning, I was like half asleep and then they were like, "Okay, well sign this." They make you sign.Miguel: What I remember was they can only hold you for 24 hours after the time that you're supposed to leave. ICE usually has a hold on you so that you can't get out and that time expired and they made me sign something. At that point I was half asleep so I didn't know what was going on. So, me signing it told them that, “Yes, it's okay to take me to the immigration place.” So from there it was really cold. They took me, and in the holding cell was terrible. They would treat you like you're a criminal, you didn't belong there. They held you in this little cell, like bathrooms and everything. It was really small. I was like, if you go to the zoo and you see like an animal just sitting there, it's basically that size. Finally, when I got my clothes, I changed, went to the detention center, which is a different facility, different building.

Miguel: They took me in the back door. They put me in a holding cell to go to jail. Of course, going to jail wasn't so fun. I was there for 10 days. It was pretty difficult because I couldn't see my family, couldn't see my significant other or anything. I would talk to them on the phone, but surprisingly that was the hardest part. The easiest part was when I went to the immigration.

Miguel: I was going to court and that's when they're like, "Oh, okay, well things have changed a little bit. This means that you're going to have to go to jail for this for 10 days." When I did, I fought it as best as I could. But after the year I couldn't anymore. No one was there. My dad was at work. My current girlfriend at that point was coming from school to where I was. So I was just sitting there. They were like, "Okay, just sit here." I was in the court room and they were like, "Okay, well we need your stuff, your cell phone, everything." So I gave him my stuff. They put them in a baggie.

Sergio: I guess coming back to the racism that you mentioned, did you ever have an experience that you faced that discrimination?Miguel: Not particularly. I’ve seen other people a little bit. The only time I've seen it for myself is when I got deported, went to court, went through all that. I had to go ahead, and they had to believe someone else other than myself. So kind of kept looking at me like I didn't belong there, when I did.

Miguel: I mean they have big parties but comparing here to the US, it kind of doesn't compare. I mean Houston's beautiful. It has its beauties, but to be honest I felt pretty closed in, a little bit claustrophobic. I was limited to what I can do to with myself and what I can do with my life until I came here. Here I feel a little bit more like I can breathe. I have more opportunities here than I did over there.

Miguel: People discriminate too much against the Mexicans and other foreign country people. If you're from Arabia or if you from Spain or Mexico or anything like that, they'll look down on you a little bit. But they're not noticing that their origin is also from somewhere else. We just keep ours a little bit more alive.

Miguel: My favorite job, well that's an easy one. Abercrombie and Fitch, I worked there as a model impact. Basically, what you do is you wear their clothes, you model for them, and you are in retail. So you go ahead and sell clothes, sell the clothes, so help the customer out, customer service as well as put up the clothes when they shipped in. When you ship them in, you get them in boxes, open the boxes, separate the guys and the girls, so on and so forth. Pretty easy job.

Sergio: Do you ever think about joining the military?Miguel: Here or over there?Sergio: Over there from JROTC?Miguel: I did think about it, but it was like, "No, I'll probably get deployed and miss my family too much."

Miguel: It sort of crushed me because I was like, well in my mindset I was... It was a bittersweet thing. I was like, "Oh, okay. I'm not only American, but I'm also now Mexican American.” So it was a little bit to adapt to it. It explains why I speak Spanish and maybe this, and why my mom cooked certain foods than other American friends do. So it was, I guess the best of both worlds you can say.

Miguel: No, it wasn't a struggle. It came like second nature to me to be in JROTC. It was really sweet, awesome to be there and to be a part of something bigger than yourself.

Miguel: No. Yeah, this is after all that stuff. I didn't really know. People would say I looked too young for my age. And I started to believe it. I'm like "Am I really this age?" And then I looked through documents and I was like, "Hey dad, where is my birth certificate, my documents?" So he's like, "Oh, it's right there above my desktop and everything.” I looked and I was like, "Oh snap, I am this age then. This is interesting." And I was like, "Oh, what is this place?" And they were like, "That's the... Where you were born in Mexico. You were born there, you were born in Mexico in that hometown." And it's like, "Hey." Yeah, before that I was kind of oblivious to where I was born because it didn't really come to mind. It didn't worry me or was not a priority in my world. My priority was friends, living a normal life over there, looking for a job or going to school or doing all that kind of stuff. My significant other. But that wasn't really on my mind.

Miguel: Discipline. Teamwork. It brought me out of my shell. Before I was super quiet, not talkative, it was really hard for me to talk. Going to JROTC helped me a lot to break out of my shell and experience new things, talk to new people, all that good stuff.

Miguel: Yeah. I was in JROTC, which is kind of like a glimpse into the air force or whichever military branch the school had. So it was pretty neat. I turned out to be the physical trainer commander. I had a lot of ribbons. I had a lot of fun. I still remember my instructors, which were Major Han and Sergeant Hardy. It was great. We traveled, we went to Washington, D.C., came back. So had a lot of opportunities there.

Miguel: Yes. Oh yes. Yes I do. I think in around 2000, I had, I think, a teacher named Ms. Walker in Corpus Christi. She was really, really sweet. I loved how she taught. I would learn so quickly with her. She was one of my favorite teachers. That's one of the teachers I do remember.

Miguel: I think it was a little bit normal, like you see in movies and stuff. Of course, I wasn't you know, bullied or anything. We all have those gossips and everything around high school. But I really liked it, going to high school in the US. It is what I've known.

Miguel: Was in school actually, in elementary school. I remember going there and not knowing a lot of English at all. I remember not understanding English, but somehow I managed and learned English fluently.

Sergio: What does your family leave behind?Miguel: Well mostly family here.

Miguel: He did. He told me that since he was a lawyer, he had to do his job and kick someone out of a property. When he did that, another person was like, "Hey, I need you to kick this person out of this property." And it was a big offer and he offered to pay in American money. He did more research on it, even it sounds crazy to me, and he noticed that this person worked for the mafia here in Mexico. And my dad refused and several months he was being harassed. Even came to the point where finally he came in danger too, even his life, our lives, was threatened. Our lives were threatened and that's when we moved to the US.

Miguel: Basically, my family was in danger due to my dad's job, so we had to leave and move to the US.

Introduction in Miguel’s words: I came back to Mexico filled with excitement and started to work on myself. I started my changes, I am a man. I have always been a man. I am more healthy mentally, I feel amazing and blessed. Now with a beautiful family. A gorgeous wife, Josselin and a handsome son Emir. I am Miguel.

Laura: Well, I mean it's pretty difficult. Everything is difficult because you start to live a better life there, and once you have come here, you have nothing. You don't even have a bed to sleep. The only thing that I could say is that, if they're still on the United States, they can take advantage of that and build a house, so they don't have to go to people that they don't want them in their house. I mean to have something in your life, you don't have to go through any other people, and ask them to help you. Because people are never going to help you. Nobody is going to help you if you don't make it work.

Laura: Yeah. My dreams is making money. I want to try to have a house for my kids. I want to finish my school. I want to finish a career as well. I mean, I have to be an example for my kid. He sees me that I finished my school, my career, I think he will do it someday. I just want to do that.

Laura: No, she is here with me.Anne: She came back?Laura: Yeah. All my family is back here.Anne: Oh, they are all back.Laura: They're back. Actually my dad was deported as well.Anne: But your mom came back with you when you came back?Laura: No.Laura: She stayed there, and after three years she came back with us.Anne: I see. And with your sister?Laura: With my sister.

Laura: I want to go live because I want my kids to have a better life. You know, Mexico City, I mean it's not the worst, but I don't want my kids to get involved in drug things, and stuff. And sometimes I just talk to my son and I talk about the life that I got there and the things that I was doing with my parents. He's like, “I want to go out there, mama.” I want to take him there. I want to show him, I want him to learn English, and he can study there. I want to go back. I think you can do that.

Laura: When I was in school, my English is not too better. It's not 100%, and there's people that make fun of you. So, I mean I try to do my best but…

Laura: I have two, but now I'm thinking on my kids. I'm not with him anymore and I am alone with my kids. So, it's pretty hard for me because I didn't want them to go through the same thing that my daddy and my mom went. And now for my kids, it's pretty hard to explain them that I'm not going to be with their dad anymore. That it's pretty hard for me even to take them to school because I have to work and sometimes my kids are telling me not to go to work. They cry a lot because they miss me because they don't see me too much. Call centers have a long time that you have to be working. But I mean there's no other way that I can go.

Laura: Well, it's not enough because sometimes I don't have money to take my kids to school because we have to pay like rent, we have to pay the lights that we have to pay, and we have to buy the things that we're going to eat. There's so many things that we have to do.

Laura: She's back now. She's taking care of my babies right now. But it's pretty difficult for her because now she's getting old and she is sick right now. So, she can’t take care of them pretty well.

Laura: Well, I was working at a little place to make juice. We were making juice. I was working there, and then I heard about call centers. I started work there.

Laura: It was fine, but I did have many problems with my family. Because I didn't have my parents here, and as I mentioned to you, they didn't have money to send me and sometimes they asked me for money to even eat.

Laura: It was because when I got here, I went to school, but I didn't finish to study. I didn’t finish because of the economy problems. My dad didn't have money, my mom didn't have money, so I just decided to stop going to school.

Laura: I did have a lawyer. The lawyer told me, “You have two options. You can stay in jail two months or you can go back to Mexico.” So, I just decide to go back to Mexico.

Laura: I know. I tried to stay there, but it was better for me to get deported than stay. I didn't want to be in jail. They tried to put me in jail for two months.

Laura: We were drinking. I wasn't driving, but I was in the car, so they found alcohol.Laura: Alcohol on the vehicle and it's like at the border

Laura: We were drinking. I wasn't driving, but I was in the car, so they found alcohol.Laura: Alcohol on the vehicle and it's like at the border.

Laura: Well I was almost finished; it was like two mouths to finish. But I didn't finish it because I'd see the problems with my dad and my mom, and I start to go out with my friends, and I was involved in a car accident. I wasn't driving, but I wasn't all up there, and I got deported.

Laura: Well, I try to push my dad to go to work. And then, he started with work and he talk with his boss and I was going to work with him. We were cleaning the restaurant and I try to work with my dad like that.

Laura: I know and it's pretty hard for me to remember that my dad was, he didn't want to go to work. He was just in his room crying for my mom watching TV. He didn't want us to see him like that. But I was the oldest sister and I do remember when my dad just hugged me and cry about my mom and say, “Why she left us? Why?” because we were girls. So, my dad didn't know what to do with us because we were girls. It was pretty difficult for me to see that as a daughter and see my dad crying. I mean, he didn't want to go to work and we didn't have nothing to eat. We have family there, but, you know, sometimes the family doesn't help us too much. You have more from other people than the family.

Laura: It was pretty nice. I liked it because I have a teacher that was trying to teach me English—well she teach me English because I learned a little bit more with her and she really helped me out with my homework, with my test. She helped me out a lot. We have problems there, well my dad and my mom had problems. They were trying to get a divorce, so I was pretty lost at that time as well—I mean I didn't know what to do because I'm the older sister and didn't know what to say to my sister. It was pretty difficult for me to see my parents fighting and see my mom left us—she was coming back and she left us like three or four years. So I was in charge of my little sister.

Laura: No, sometimes I was missing school like too many days because I did not want to go and people making fun of me. There was many people, Mexican people that speak Spanish to me, but I wasn't feeling comfortable when I go to my classrooms and I don't have like friends that speak English and speak Spanish. So it was very uncomfortable for me. I was pretty scared of doing homework. I was pretty scared reading the book when the teacher told me to read it. I was pretty lost. I didn't know what to do, so I was afraid to go to school.

Laura: Not too much. I mean, I try to do my best but I don't know. I don't even know how to start to learn English because I have Mexican people right beside me and they didn't help me out. They didn't help me out. They didn't let me know what there was saying. It was pretty difficult. But once I start to learn English, well to start understanding just a little bit, I just got involved to it.

Laura: Well, it was summer, so it was pretty nice and I did like it, but once I went to school, I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. I have teachers, and I didn't know what they were saying. It was pretty difficult to us because we didn't know what to say, we didn't know what they were telling us. It was pretty bad because there was people, like Mexican people, that instead of helping you, they were just making fun of you because you didn't know English.

Laura: Guns. I mean, I was very afraid because of my sister. She was a little girl. My dad was afraid as well. He just wanted to take us out of there, but we have to wait like the twenty days. When we go to the bathroom when we need, my dad took us to the bathroom. To eat, they only give us one egg, and just a little piece of bread in the whole day. It was pretty much the worst. And then, when my family takes us out, that person that would take us out to another person, that person sit me in the front of the car. And that person has a gun right beside me. I was pretty scared about it, because I thought they were going to kill us or something. Once they took us to the other person—the other person was pretty nice—he took us to his house. He told us to take shower, to grab the food that we want. So, that person was very nice with us. He give us food, we took a shower, and then he took us to California where we supposed to be. So that person was pretty nice. Then we got there, and we started to go to school.

And then, well I didn't know what time it was it, but we stopped eating at the middle of the desert. We were eating tacos. Well my little sister was, she was little. She was like three years old, and she was walking with us. She was crying because she couldn't do it anymore. She wanted to… My dad pulled her out. Just helped her out, he pulled her on his back, and he continued walking with us. I was trying to be strong, because of my sister who was little. And then, we saw the la migra, the police, immigration. We go back, then we stay like lay down on the middle at the dessert.

Laura: Then it got dark, and then it had started to rain. We were walking—we didn't know where we are. We were walking, and we have some... Well it was like a little mountain, I don't know how to say that, but it was like a little fold. We were walking, like in a little line. And we went with our cousins. One of my cousin was going to fall down. Then we got to the line, we were walking. It was raining, it was dark. The only light that we can see was the moonlight. We didn't have any light at all. We were walking, then when we got to the... We saw the road, but I don't know where we, exactly. We just lay down. That rain was getting to us. My little sister was shaking, because she was cold. We didn't have any jackets. My dad was very scared because my sister didn't answer, my sister fell asleep. And she was shaking a lot, but she never answer. We tried to wake her up, and she never answer. We're like, "Oh, my God, what happened to her?" But then she wake up, and she said she was fine, that she was cold only.Laura: We were with many other people. Then we stay there, we fall asleep, then somebody wakes us up and tell us to run to a truck. We run to a truck, and there was two people that were driving, and he sit me on the back. He lay my sister down and my dad was outside on the back of the truck. Well, they drive all to, I think it was Arizona. Then we get to one home, they just remove us the shoes. We didn't have any shoes on. We went to a little room, and there was many other people that were already crossed there. The only thing that we have, it was like a little bit, they gave us food to eat. We have it. So, we stayed there for like twenty days because they didn't know—I mean, they didn't tell my other relatives, my family, how much was going to be. So, we didn't have the money to take this, so we say like twenty days there and there was people that have arms. We were sleeping and there was somebody taking care of us, so we don't escape or, I don't know, but they have arms, like huge arms.

Laura: I went with my dad, only with my dad and my other sister, my little sister. We went to Piedras Negras and then we found a person that was going to cross us. That person, maybe he didn't know the exactly... road. We were at the dessert at 4:00 AM. We take some gallons of water. We didn't have like any other stuff, like water and food to eat. We start walking at 4:00 AM. And then, well I didn't know what time it was it, but we stopped eating at the middle of the desert. We were eating tacos. Well my little sister was, she was little. She was like three years old, and she was walking with us. She was crying because she couldn't do it anymore. She wanted to… My dad pulled her out. Just helped her out, he pulled her on his back, and he continued walking with us. I was trying to be strong, because of my sister who was little. And then, we saw the la migra, the police, immigration. We go back, then we stay like lay down on the middle at the dessert.

Laura: I went with my parents.Anne: And did you cross the border? Or did you have a visa?Laura: No, I went across the border.

Rocio: Yeah. They are destroying an American citizen because they are suffering. And it's just not fair. But I'm very glad that people like you are doing this because what I want is to be able to talk to more people, to know what this is about. And it's just not because I went to United States because I don't like Mexico or I come back and going to steal jobs because I speak English because it's not that way. And the way we can help the people that go through these situations and go to the government and ask them—I'm here for nine years and I can't get a job and I'm 55 or I need to support myself. I need to support my kids. I need to live. I'm Mexican and I am not able to do nothing if you're in my country and it's terrible. And that's what I'm going to fight for now. Because if not, I don't know if I'm going to survive or what am I going to do. My family is not going to be there forever.

Rocio: Yes, it's hard. I mean, I know my kids is thanks to my family and the people around me. It's been not crazy like other peoples, other people it's terrible. Anyway, if you have family, they destroyed your family. Even though I get back to my kids one day is not to be the same never.

Rocio: I call, they tell me to call here to Relaciones exteriors (Mexican Consulate), to the government here. And I did call and they told me, “You just sign. Because if they take you to the judge and the judge deport you, you never going to come back.” So in the moment I was like, of course in shock, I was thinking about my kids. I was like what I need to do to don't have more problems. Just sign, you need to sign, you don't go to the judge because they going to deport you or they going to take your kids away and blah, blah, blah. So I just signed.

Rocio: So I was lucky that he went with me in my home and then just start driving and he parked and he say, “Who did this to you?” And I was like, “Please let me go!” And he said, “I can't, I have the report and I need to arrive with you. But what you did or what is it?” I have my kids, I work, I paid taxes. He said “Sorry, I just can't let you go.” So they took me out [pause].

Rocio: They needed to call the police first. They can call the immigration first. So they called the local police and they say that I was robbing his home. And they have a fingerprints and I was like, “Yeah, sure. I was over there for four years or more.”

Rocio: So his urine conduct was stuck. So they needed a major surgery and I didn't pay anything. I paid with my medical and they sent me to the best doctors and he's okay. So for me, that's why I'm so grateful for USA, I love USA. So when this happened I was like, “Why?” I mean, I understand that not all the people that was to go to USA is going to be able because everyone wants to go over there. But I mean if we are working, we are paying taxes—they don't give taxes back. Just if you have kids, they give you $1,000 a year or something, but they don't give you more. And you still paying taxes. I mean the people we are without, even driving ticket or anything why they don't let us stay? Or like this family, they took my life away without knowing what they doing. It was easy for them to call immigration without thinking.

Anne: You can't win. You said that one of your children, your daughter, had a heart murmur.Rocio: Yes.Anne: Did you have health insurance? How did you pay for the medical procedures?Rocio: I had regular medical, like everybody and I pay like $10 a month and they give me the best doctors. And when my son...

Rocio: And my daughter never forgive me. She all the time… I tried to tell her to know what to do with the baby or something and she said like, “Why you left me? So what you going to tell me about it?” And I say, “Karen you're 22 you need to understand.” And she is like, “No, you never, [pause] why'd you sign it for you to leave?” I mean she's very upset with me too, I don't know.

Rocio: Yes. Emotional problems. I, of course, keep in touch with my friend and she's like, well this week he was in a fight at school. He eats when he is upset or nervous. Sometimes for a month or two he's okay and they talk to him a lot. She's like his behavior at school sometimes is—I don't know because he have dark hair. Or I told her you ought to be careful with bullying, maybe it's that and she's not that very involved with him at school and everything. But sometimes, like right now, it's getting better. But when he's nervous …he gets in middle school already and he told my friend I'm very afraid to go to school. So he begins to eat and eat and right now he is very big. But we talked to him a lot so I don't know what's going to happen. It’s still problems with—

Rocio: And gives me the opportunity to have the best doctors for my kids and that you have schools that you don't need pay much. When that happened to me, I thought to bring my daughter and I don't know, going to be able to pay your school and I'm not going to put her in a public school here because the difference is going to be too much for her. So I decided to leave her over there. So everything, I like everything.

re in Mexico is just crazy. When I used to drive, everybody was telling me what are you doing? Do you need to stop? You need to drive carefully. And I just get it immediately. I liked that respect for others. I just click with everything. I just love it.

Rocio: Oh. Everything. I mean for me it was a very good time. I had very good jobs. I have time to be with my kids a lot because I worked nine to four, so I have all afternoon with my kids. I was able go to the beach. As you know, Palm Springs is very close to the beach, the snow, and mountains. So I love the USA. I just love that place. So I hope—I mean it's not going to be the same of course, but it's different. I just always love to be there.

Rocio: And my friend wants to adopt my kid and I'm not ready to do that either. I'm not going to take my son away from her because she's been so nice, but I'm not going to sign that you know [laughs]? So I mean, it's just a nightmare for everybody. It's just not right. We don't go to steal nobody's jobs. We go to have a better life. That's it. And we are very hardworking people. So I don't know what's going to happen.

Rocio: So I'm just starting to get more strength to help people because you know, hearing the stories and everything—my stories all the time here in my mind. I'm starting to like it because I love to help people you know? And I start when the situation with the DACA start in United States, I was like, “This is not fair, this can't be happening.” I have thousands of friends in United States that took their kids very young, one, two years old. And the future was going to be for them, you know? And if they took the kids, the parent stay or if they took the parent back, what would the kids going to do in the United States? My kids were so lucky to have my daughter, her father, and my son, my friend. But even though that's illegal because they just have a paper, we haven't been able to do nothing really legal because it's too expensive.

Rocio: And for everybody in my family needs to help me. I feel like I'm 15 years old because they pay my rent. So it's just everything is—I tried to kill myself two years ago when I broke my back and they told me I need to be in bed for a year because I can't have surgery. So it was like, I can't do this anymore. You know, it's just, I can't, but it wasn't my time. I hurt myself in every way you can imagine. And at night, it was time. I didn't do it. I can't do it. So I started going to the psychiatrist again, and everything is money, so it's just, I don't know when this is going to end you know?

Rocio: She's in North of Mexico, Sonora. She crossed the border and everything and the baby born in USA, praise God. But she's helping him and I can't see her because I don't have the money to bring her. Do you know the flights and everything? I mean, I have very much contact with her and with my boy. With him I talk—of course he don't have Facebook or anything—every 15 days and with my daughter every time she's on Facebook we talk. But she have a baby and I haven't meet him. He's going to be already two years old. So I don't know, it's just a nightmare.

Rocio: I mean you get in internet to get a job and it's just until you're 35 years old. So what would you want to do here? I mean, I speak enough English to work in an office and they tell me no because my age. So it's been hard all this time, even though my friend said, “Well you have already nine years here.” I said, “For me it's been like nine hours.” I mean it's been very difficult and go through everything. My kids is the worst part.

And because my age. I just been working—in nine years, I just got three jobs. And last year I broke a bone in my back. So I stay a year in bed. After that, I'd been looking for a job for a year and I'm not able to get a job because my age, so it's just a nightmare. And so I've been trying to get more involved in these situations, to see if we can get together, the people that we go through this and help each other because it's just crazy.

Rocio: Of course, I went to see a lot of lawyers. They took all my money, thousand dollars every time. Everybody telling me they going to help me to go back. And of course until I say okay, no more paying to lawyers or anything. And I met Yolanda Verona, the one who wants to create more DREAMer moms, by Facebook and she asked me to represent moms here in Mexico.

Rocio: Of course, I went to see a lot of lawyers. They took all my money, thousand dollars every time. Everybody telling me they going to help me to go back. And of course until I say okay, no more paying to lawyers or anything. And I met Yolanda Verona, the one who wants to create more DREAMer moms, by Facebook and she asked me to represent moms here in Mexico. And I said, “Okay, but I just opened a Facebook page and everybody are in United States.” So, I was like, “No, I need to meet people here.” But in Mexico, I haven't met anybody, just one, Ana Laura Lopez, and she's helping a lot people that came here—she waits for them in the airport and help them if they don't have place to stay or a job, or anything. But she lives so far from me, so we met once but we can't even talk, you know to do something together yet.

Rocio: Of course, everything is a disaster. I was two years in bed with depression. My first two years, I just don't want to live. So, thanks to my family, help me and said, “Your kids needs you. You can't just die in bed.”

Rocio: And my daughter was 13 and of course she was in middle school and I told her, “No, you need to stay over there and finish your school. You have your dad.” Of course, after three or four years, she began to not behave, you know, and she didn't finish high school. She just finished second. She just left one year, but she didn't finish and she started having problems with behavior, living with friends, and I didn't know anything. Her dad can't control her. So it was very hard for me. Very, very hard for me. Even though my son started peeing the bed for two or three years, my friend needs to take him to a psychologist. Saturday he turns 12, but he's 12 years old. We talked with him and try to explain to him, but he really don't understand why I cannot cross the border. Why he cannot come over here because it's hard for him to cross without me. And of course he's still having problems sometimes with behavior or gain weight or lose weight or depression.

Rocio: So that's when I need to make that decision to let him go, with my friend. She's everything to me. Of course, she's very, very—a great family. She just have a son. So, she signed it like a tutor [inquisitive] to keep him until I was able to come back. Because at the beginning I was fighting to go back and talking with everybody, but they told me, you have 10 years and you need to stay over there. So it was extremely hard for me to make that decision, but it's not for me. It's his life. He has everything over there. And I'm not going to take that away from him.

Rocio: He was three years old, almost three. And he don't speak Spanish or they don't let me, they just don't take him. So, it was like two months after I bring him, that my friend called me and told me, “We need to think, he have everything here, you know, he's an American citizen. What are you going to do over there with him? You don't have a place. You live with your mom.”

Rocio: Yes. Yes. My daughter speaks English because I teach her at the beginning. And at school, she started speaking English. My son never want to speak Spanish. Since I start talking to him in Spanish and he never wanted it. So when I bring him, after a year that I came here, I took him, I tried to keep him with me, but it was hard because I get a job. So very early in the morning, I take him with my aunt and I pick him up at night in pajamas already. So it was crazy for me.

Rocio: And that's when I started having problems because I didn't change the visa and so I lost my license, even though I was able to buy cars, to rent apartments and I never have a problem with that.

Rocio: Yes, I had a good one. But after 10 years here in Mexico, they changed the visa for 10 years. Every 10 years you need to change it.

Rocio: Dating, they just call immigration and my nightmare starts and my life just was over, because I lost everything. Thank God my kids weren't with me that day. My daughter was with her dad and my son was with a friend of mine. So they took me just by myself. But that's when everything started. I didn't come to Mexico for 18 years. So it was just a nightmare. That's when everything started.

Rocio: After 13 years, I have another kid, Chris, my son. I didn't get married, I have been by myself. And then I start working for these people—the last persons that I worked for. And my boss brings a friend from Michigan, and we start dating since the beginning. And his family, he just told me they don't like Mexicans. So after four years—

Because Palm Springs is in summer it's so hot, they go away for three, four months. So I take care of their residence. And I mean, United States for me, was very good. Very good because I always was welcome. Always have a job.

Rocio: Yes. And I have the best doctors, I have her Medical. So, I start paying a charity for St. John's hospital for kids because I have the same problem. Thank God, she's okay. And, of course, these people start paying me more money because they were rich people. Because Palm Springs is in summer it's so hot, they go away for three, four months. So I take care of their residence. And I mean, United States for me, was very good. Very good because I always was welcome. Always have a job.

I helped the Palm Springs police for charities and everything. And my daughter have a problem with her heart. She have a murmur?

Rocio: And I pay taxes. And after that, I work in hotels, in restaurants. In 95, I get married and I have a baby daughter, Karen, and I stay for three more years in hotels. And after I separated from my husband, I begin to work in private residence. Of course, they never asked me for papers, but I still paying my taxes, always I pay taxes. I helped the Palm Springs police for charities and everything. And my daughter have a problem with her heart. She have a murmur?

Rocio: No, immediately, I always love the language. I studied English at my school here and I immediately loved it. I just love America and no, it was very good for me in Palm Springs. Everybody, it was Filipino people, a lot of Mexicans. And it was welcome. I was very welcome.

Rocio: I was cleaning rooms. Something very different of course, because I work here in an office and it was hard for me. But really it was the difference in the salaries, that just made the difference you know. To have my studio in a month and furniture and everything I hear is hard to do that. So, and then I was by myself. I wasn't married, I didn't have kids, I didn't even plan it, but I stay.

Rocio: In a month I already rent my own studio. I get my furniture. So I was all set up in a month—and of course I compare the payment here in Mexico over there—and I just stay, I mean without thinking, without planning, I just stayed. After a year I came back because I wasn't sure if I'm going to stay or not in the USA. And I started working again here and when I was in the job, someone opened my purse and stole my wallet and I arrived to work and I just saw it and I was like, “No, I don't like this anymore so I'm going to come back to Palm Springs.” And I did. And I stayed for 18 years.

nd immediately he asked me if I want to get a job because across our apartment they were asking for people who want to work in a hotel. And I went to apply and they gave me the job.

Rocio: Well it was 1991. I wasn't working here and I had a friend that came from Hawaii and asked me if I want to go for a vacation. And I said yes and I arrived to Palm Springs. Beautiful place. I just love it. And immediately he asked me if I want to get a job because across our apartment they were asking for people who want to work in a hotel. And I went to apply and they gave me the job.

Yair: But my experience, to come back over here to Mexico is ... I don't know. I always see it as a sign of God, or I don't know. It changed my life really, really, completely. The way of seeing things too, here from over there. I don't really have that ... I can't really explain what I mean, to tell you the experience. I don't know. The experience will be, just for me, living in another country and switching back in place, and that's it. It's not that much, because most of the time that I was over there in the United States, I was referred to as a kid. I don't really remember everything, but being here, I just had to deal with it and just stay, see what comes up, yeah.

Yair: Well, I think that my experience here, to be coming back over here is not as big deal. It was really a different way for me to come over here, because a lot of people that I know from over there ... Well, that I know here, that they come from over there too. They say that they had to go through a lot of things. They've been locked up, or they've been reported for motoring, or selling drugs, or being in a gang, or stuff like that.

Yair: I can't really remember myself being as a kid. I can't remember how I was, but growing up over there, knowing the things, the places and people that you know, the education from school that you got, I think it's a lot different than over here. Here in Mexico here it is nice too, but they don't have really the same education that's over there. Here, people from Mexico, they do whatever they want. They don't follow the rules, or I don't know, I just think it's about the education difference. Yeah, I think, I don’t know. Yeah. I think I'm a honest people, person, I mean. I don't like to really lie and stuff, or make up things. I just tell what I feel, what I've been through.

Yair: It did change me a lot, I think, because coming back over here was way too different. I'm actually one of those persons that if you tell me something, I'll believe it. But then after living here, having a lot of experience with people that have bad influence, you start getting to know that there's not always a lot of good people. Yeah, I think that really changed me, or helped me a lot, living over there.

Yair: I think the education over there in high school ... Well, in school, because over there the teachers always used to tell us that we have to be good. We have to tell the truth, we have to be respectful. We have to be responsible. And I think I got a lot of helpful [inaudible 00:33:19] over there from people. They were really nice to me, and they changed my ways, because I always asked myself that question too. What would have been of me if I would have never be over there? What would I be, like, what type of person would I be right now?

Yair: Actually, I miss also the people. There's a lot of really nice people that I met over there. Most of them I really lost touch with them, but I can't remember why. We're just talking sometimes, but not most of the time I talk to them. Yeah, that's what I miss.

Yair: Over there in the United States, I remember I bought my shoes for $90, $60.Anne: Yeah, wow.Yair: It was cheaper. The dollar over here is big money, but over there, I've seen everything is cheaper over there. You can get more stuff, or you can do more of your own things than here.Anne: Yeah.

Yair: I mean, what I also miss from over there, everything from over there, the clothes, the shoes, the cars. I actually liked the motorcycles and everything. They have good quality, you know? Here in Mexico you can find anything. You can find the same thing, but not as much good quality, or you can, but it's really expensive. For example, for shoes, some Nike shoes, I really like some Nike shoes. Nike shoes are like here they're 3,000 or 4,000 or 5,000 pesos.

Yair: Also, the economy, obviously, the work. I remember that every time we go out shopping to Walmart, my parents spent $150 or $200, and we bought a lot of food. It lasted for us for almost two weeks. Here in Mexico, with 2,000 pesos you can buy a lot of food, but it's too expensive. Also, is it closed?

Yair: What I miss over there also is just most of the time the lifestyle, because I lived over there in a small country, a small town, and I could do anything. I could go fishing, I could go to a lake, play basketball, really anything, like going to the woods. I miss all that. Basically you can find the same thing here in Mexico, but it's not the same as over there.

Yair: A lot of things. I miss the places, or the lifestyle over there. The lifestyle is really different. It's really calm. You can do anything. You can do anything, but not everything here, the rules, the security. Here in Mexico there's a lot of traffic of drugs, car dealers and stuff. You can't be really safe sometimes.

Yair: Yeah, I was really, really careful because I was like, man, what if I get stopped or pulled over, if I get a ticket? Maybe I'll pay the ticket, but you never know what type of police cop you'll get. I did have a lot of racist people from over there, but I didn't really pay attention to them. Most of the time I did got in a fight with them, and after that they didn't bother me no more. I know what people are good to you, and what, some people that are not good to you. I never took it really personal, but there was actually one. There was this actually one time that ... I think I was nine? No, 12, 11 years old. I was on the bus. The bus takes you home. There was this one big kid, I remember. He was making fun of, and making jokes about, African people. He was bothering this guy, and I got mad. I stood up, and I was like, "What have you got to say?"

Yair: Then when we were already over here, me and my family and my sister, we heard that, on the news actually, we heard that Obama gave a lot of opportunity to allow immigrant people to study over here, or to study in the US, to have papers and stuff. I was like, "Man." I told my dad, "See, Dad? I told you to stay over there, man." I mean, I really liked it over there. I got used to it, and I just wanted to live over there. I wanted to come over here but just to visit my family, and come back.

Yair: My dream was to be a producer, music producer, because I really liked music. I remember that I spoke with my music teacher. She gave me this disc that has a lot of things that you can do, for you to do instrumentals and stuff. I did it. I didn't know anything, but I think I'm good at it, making instrumentals for music. I really liked that, and I wanted to study that or to become one of the producers and stuff, because I like music. The other of my dreams was for me to have a house, my own car, and also get married and have a family. That was most of my dreams. Yeah, that's about it, I think.

Yair: "No. I don't want to be part of this business. I'm illegal here. I don't have no documents and stuff. I want to keep studying. I want to do something with my life, and I don't want to ruin it for a drug. I don't need the money. If I need the money, I'll work, I'll do something, but not this way, though." Yeah, there was not any gangs. It was really calm over there.

Yair: Yeah, like rodeos and things like that. I really liked most of the time going to the rodeos, and seeing people ride the bulls and the horses and stuff. It was really nice. But there was not any gangs. I used to go to the city in Little Rock, which is the city in Arkansas. I used to go there just to go clubbing, parties and stuff, but I never wanted to be part of the gang. I did have some friends that offered me to be part of the gang, and sell weed and stuff. I was like, "No, I'm not going to do this, man." I'm like, "No."

Yair: Yea actually, I actually miss football. Every time I see football games and stuff, I remember there the training, the training in the mornings, the summer training stuff. I miss everything. After I got into football, I made a lot of friends. Most of the time when I was free after school I spent my time with them playing basketball, always doing something, because over there in Arkansas, in Clinton, Arkansas, there's not much to do. It's a really small town.

Yair: The teachers were really disciplined, and they really cared about you, about your grades and stuff. I actually had a lot of teachers that were teaching me English, teaching me how to read, speak well, pronouncing words. Yeah, they helped me a lot. I had a lot of teachers helping me, and I really learned a lot from them, words, how to speak, or how to pronounce words and stuff. I'm actually trying to ... I was teaching them also Spanish, because they wanted to learn Spanish. I was like, "Yeah, I can teach you.”

Yair: I remember that I started crying because I missed my family, my cousins and my friends at school. I just wanted to go back, and then I started getting used to it, once you're in school. School was really a big difference, because here, the school here in Mexico, they don't have that, what do you call it? They have the education, but not as much as over there. Over there it was way easier to do it. You could wear your own clothes. Here, you have to wear a uniform to go to school. I think that I hated it all the time.

Yair: Yeah. I didn't know any English. I tried to spoke most of the time in Spanish, but a lot of the kids, they didn't understand me. I didn't either, so I can't remember what they were telling me at the beginning. I started-

Yair: But right now I have a daughter. She's four years old. I used to be married. I got separated a year and five months already, and I see her on the weekends. No, most of the time I see her, but I used to see her every day. Now with the schedule from work that I have, it doesn't really work for me that much. I'm trying to find something else, for a better schedule, then to spend the time with her because I really like to spend time with my daughter, to just drive and go places. Last week I took her over here, actually, so she can know the Monumento de la Revolución. I took her over here. She really liked it, and I'm planning to take her to more places, really cool places.Yair: But yeah, that's the story of my life. If I had a chance to go back in the United States, I would. I never had any papers or any ID or anything like that, and I actually, I made up my own card, so I worked over there too by cleaning yards. I actually worked for a little while in the boat factory with my parents. I used to get paid, I think, $450 a week. That's how I started saving.Anne: That's not bad.Yair: Yeah, it was not bad. I was like, wow, that's a lot of money. I love that. Then I started saving for me to buy a car, or I did buy my first car. I actually had two cars over there, and I sold them. I sold them when I came back over here to Mexico City. I went to a school that's called UM. That's a pay school, where you have to pay to study. I used all my money of my car to study over there.Anne: To get your degree?Yair: Yeah.Anne: Your high school degree?Yair: Yeah, just to get it. Then after that I had no car, and I started working again. I made another ... Well, I saved up for another car

Yair: But yeah, that's the story of my life. If I had a chance to go back in the United States, I would. I never had any papers or any ID or anything like that, and I actually, I made up my own card, so I worked over there too by cleaning yards. I actually worked for a little while in the boat factory with my parents. I used to get paid, I think, $450 a week. That's how I started saving.

Yair: But yeah, that's most of my experiences. My experience here in Mexico, it's a big change because it's a city. There's a lot of danger. Not a lot of danger, but it depends on what area you live in because not all areas are bad, and some areas are really calm and nice. But if you live ... What do they say? In the hood or stuff, there's a lot of crime and a lot of people that sells drugs, and a lot of killing also. But most of the time I don't deal with those type of people. I try to stay away from them. I have friends that are like that, but I don't want to be in that situation. I don't want to be engaged with them, to hang out with them, because even though ... If I hang out with them or stuff, I know maybe someday I'll be in trouble or something. I don't know.

Yair: Yeah. I actually had to finish high school, well, my last high school, my last year of high school here because I didn't get to finish it over there. It was really hard for me, because I felt like at the beginning when I got over there in the United States, like I didn't know anything, nothing. I barely spoke Spanish. It was kind of hard for me to understand the math. All the subjects, the classes and stuff, it was really hard for me to understand. I cut my grades. Actually, my certificate grade was for 7.9, which is really bad. It cost me a lot and all that. I barely made it. I barely graduated. Then after I graduated I started working, started finding jobs here, like call centers and stuff. Most of them, I have them, most of them are a lot of customer service now.

Yair: "Oh, paperwork?" Then after that, we just left to Arkansas. We drove all the way to Arkansas, and that's where I have my ... Actually, my uncle's right now still. I got to one of my uncles' house, and we stayed. Well, he offered us rooms so that we could stay there, to live in, meanwhile, and my dad was working in another, I think, city. I can't remember the name of the city, though. He was working in work construction, on the roads. That's when we got, we went to visit him, and that's when we got to see him finally after like a year. That's when my dad came back to his brother's house, and he stayed there. They started working in the boat factory.

Yair: But then I told my mom that, and she's like, "No, don't stay. You can come back over here." She told me that crying, and I was like [inaudible 00:13:00]. That's how she convinced me to come back. That's why I came back, and I'm living now here in Mexico City for nine years already since I came back.

Yair: Everything. We drove all the way over here. We didn't have no issue, no problem, thank God. That's how we got here. I really wanted to stay over there. I just wanted to come here just to visit, but I was already 18. I told my dad that I wanted to stay with my uncles, and he's like, "No, you can't stay here with your uncles. What do you want to do?"

Yair: Then my dad, he said that he wanted to come back too, because my mom wanted to come back over there, but then she saw all her family after nine years and stuff. She said that she ... It was my decision if I wanted to stay. I was like, well, I did want to stay because I wanted to graduate from high school, but then she's like, "No, I just want you guys to come back here." My dad took the decision to just come back over here. We drove all the way over here, and he took the car and trailer. We actually took all of our stuff from home for all the way over here. We took our kitchen, our living room.

Yair: So my mom got scared, and we were really worried. We didn't know what to do now, because my dad was paying the bills for the exams, for the hospital. They were really expensive for him. They can't even afford to pay it. That's when my parents decided ... Well, my mom decided just to come back over here in the city, just to get surgery, and she did. After three or four months after she got surgery, she was okay, thank God.

Yair: Firstly, my mom had an uncle that ... He's a doctor here in Mexico. He talked over a webcam with her, and he's like, "No, you're really bad. You need to get surgery now. You're either going to stay there and die, or you're going to go and just come back here and get surgery, because you can't be like this no more. Within two or three days you're going to die. You can't be like this."

Yair: Yeah, the uterus. She got some problems there, and she was losing a lot of blood. I remember that she was going to the hospital a couple of times to get exams, to see what she had, what was wrong with her. They gave her a lot of excuses for her not to get surgery and stuff, and my mom got really sick.

Yair: "Okay, okay." I really liked it over there. I really felt like, I don't know, it was my home, you know? I made a lot of friends. I didn't graduate because ... I was about to graduate there, but the reason we came back here was because my mom got sick. She has some problems about her ... how do you call it? She has some problems on her ... I forget how you call it.

Yair: I liked to do a lot of sports. I used to do that, and I always tried to keep good grades in my classes and all, for the main reason that the football coach was asking me, "You have to get good grades and stuff."

Yair: Yeah, my parents in Arkansas. Sorry, my dad knows how to weld boats and stuff. He's a welder, actually. My mom learned how to do it well, too. They were there working for almost nine years, because I was there nine years, living in Arkansas. I went to high school. I went to elementary, first grade, and high school, and I made a lot of friends. I did a lot of sports. I did basketball, football, baseball and track, running track.

Yair: I got to my uncle's house. No, I'm sorry. We got to this guy's house in Texas. It was in Dallas, Texas. I can't remember what part exactly, but we stayed over his house for four, three days, and the guy was really nice. He actually had his family, his wife and kids. Most of the time ... I think my mom, I can remember my mom left with this guy to see something about the papers, or something like that, and she took one day. I didn't know anything, and then I was really worried. Then my sister and me stayed at this house with his wife and kids, but I didn't know anything about my mom. I just kept asking for the latest on my mom, like ”Hey, where's my mom? Where's my mom?"

Yair: My mom was really excited, and she was happy. Actually, she was crying and happy at the same time, because she was really worried. I didn't know what was going on, and I was like, "What?" I was too young to understand. I was like, "Well, I got there."

Yair: This guy crosses us over with fake papers of his kids. His kids were American citizens already, but he was pretending that ... Well, my mom was pretending to be his wife because we got stopped by the cops, I think, by the border. They were asking where were we going? He said ... I remember him saying that we were just coming to visit Mexico and stuff, and just crossed over. Actually, we were going to sleep in the back of the car, and that's how we crossed over.

Yair: She’s like, "Well, this time it's going to be you're going to cross over the kids over the border, but in the car. It's not going to be over the river or anything like that. It's in the car." Well, that's why my mom decided to say yes, because this is a better way to cross over. Then after that we got over to Reynosa again, and I think we did cross over the desert, yeah, the border. We were walking in the night, I remember. It was really dark. We couldn't see anything. We were just waiting for this guy to come over with a car to cross over.

Yair: My dad was like, "No, this guy was really a bad dude." Then, I think, after like six months, seven months again, my dad kept insisting my mom to come over here, that he would get another person that could cross us over with no problems. It would be much safer. And then that’s when my mom thought about it and she was like,”Okay, well what's it going to be like this time?"

Yair: We didn't have nothing to eat. This guy really… he was not really polite to us and stuff most of the time, because we didn't have nothing to eat. My mom was just trying to see what work ... just to see if she could feed us, because she didn't have no money. My dad told her to send the location where we were at. I guess my dad was sending my mom money, so that way we can eat because this guy didn't give us nothing to eat or something, and my mom was getting really desperate. My mom was like, "You know what? I'm just going to go back to the city, because this guy is not treating us right. He's not feeding us or anything like that, and the money that you're sending to him, I don't know what he's doing with it. He's not giving us nothing, and the kids needs clothes and stuff." That's when we decided to just come back. My mom was like, “No, I'm never going to try this again. I'm not going to risk my kids anymore," and this and that.

Yair: With my mom, yeah. Yeah, because I was not actually trying to let go of my mom cause I was with my mom all the time. I would just hold on to her hand, and my sister too. Then this guy told her, "Well, you're going to stop by over my house. You can stay there," and this and that. This guy was the one that was going to cross us over, but I can't remember what was the issue though, but I think my dad had to send the money over to him again, but in the meanwhile, we were staying at his house for like a month.

Yair: Yeah. They were taking my mom's information, but didn't take ours because it was me and my sister. There was only three of us. Then after that, my mom called this guy, and he told her ... I think he told her that she was arrested or something, and we stayed there for five, six hours. My mom was really worried. She was worried about us because she didn't know what was going to happen to us and stuff. My mom was crying, and I was just sitting with her by her side.

Yair: I was like, "Well ..." That was news to me. I was like, "Okay well." I thought it was really close, and all that. Then my mom was like ... We got to a place called ... Well, we stayed here from Mexico. That's called Reynosa. We went over there. We actually took a bus all the way over there, and it took us two or three days to get over there. Once we got there, there was this guy that was trying to ... Well, he said that he was going to cross us over the border by the river and stuff, and so we did, but the migration caught us. They took us to their ... How do you say it, their offices for migration?

Yair: Okay. Well, when I was like nine years, I left to the USA. Well, my dad, he was already there. He was already like a year over there, and then he was talking to my mom saying that he wished for us to be over there with him and my mom decided to just go over there. I didn't know anything. I thought we were just going to a different house closer to here. I was like, "Okay. Well, yeah, we'll go to my dad," because I hadn't seen my dad for a year, and I was really happy. I was really excited, you know, because I hadn't seen my dad. I really missed him.

Jeimmy: Oh no. We had that conversation before. I told them, "Yo me quedo aquí en la casa. [I am staying here, in the house] You guys can send me money and I'll like yo construyo la casa [I’ll build the house] but I'm staying here." Yeah.Tim: Your brothers who are both American citizens have they considered going back or do they?Jeimmy: Yes. My 19 -year old brother, I don't know why he hasn't left yet. He would have already left. But I guess he doesn't want to, I don't know. And my 15- year old brother, he's like indeciso. [undecided] Because he was like five years old when we came back. So he forgot English. He understands it, but he doesn't speak it well. So he's like, "If I do go back, I want to go back with someone because I don't know much English." So yeah, he's still in a dilemma.

immy: So, he would start looking for jobs where he said, “If I weld this, just to do it, because this whole thing costs like 10,000 pesos, they're already like, ‘I'm getting paid, I don't know, 3000 for it. Y nada mas’” Like 10 minutes of doing it, the company was already getting paid thousands of pesos for it. And he was only getting paid like 1,000 and change a week.Jeimmy: So, he's like, "I'm working for this company that's making thousands of pesos, y a mi nada mas me pagan 1000 pesos a la semana. " [they are only paying me 1000 pesos a week] So he didn't like that. He's like, "They're not paying me enough for what I know how to do." So he started looking for more and more jobs, and he started noticing that jobs that have nothing to do what he does pay more than what he actually knows how to do.Jeimmy: So he became like chofer de metrobus,[bus driver] he became like taxista, [taxi driver] and he's like, "I don't like this. I don't like being a chofer. [driver] I want to do what I like doing. But it's not paid well here, so I want to go back to the States and work over there." So yeah, that's basically why he wants to go back.

Jeimmy: My dad got that mentality, like esta va contra mis derechos, [this is against my rights] like, "You can't do this." Or when we had a huge trouble subscribing my brothers to school because they're American. They needed like infinity of paperwork. And my dad's like, "Okay. So me estas diciendo que les estas negando los estudios a mi hijo por esto, esto y lo otro,” [you are denying my son his studies for this, that and the other] And they're like, "No, we're not denying him." -"No entonces?."[no, so?]

Jeimmy: Yes. Yes. Because in the States, you're always—I mean, it's not bad [Laughs]—but you're always complaining about everything. Like, you give me bad customer service? I'm complaining about it. You gave me this one cent higher? I'm complaining about it. And it's perfectly fine because that way you know your human rights. And nobody can come in to ruin it.

Jeimmy: Yes. My dad did. My dad here in Mexico, he's very like esos son mis derechos [these are my rights] very contra-. I don't know. He's always—

Jeimmy: My dad, he understands it and he speaks it. Pero su inglés es un inglés paisa, like real paisa, [his English is a real paisa English] like what time is it?, Like, open the dooro or I'll break the window.” (In Spanish accents) And my mom, she can understand it like 70% and speak it like 30%. But if I speak to my dad, he'll understand and he'll respond. Very mocho, but he'll respond.

Tim: So, you mentioned you didn't know the national anthem of Mexico or the national song. Do you know the pledge of allegiance of the US, the national anthem of the US? [Laughs].

Jeimmy: Nothing hasta la fecha, [still today] I don't know el himno nacional, [the national anthem]I don't know who Pancho Villa is, I don't know who Benito Juarez is, I don't know who Sor Juana is. The only time I heard about Sor Juana is when my dad was listening to a Nortena song from Los Tigres del Norte which says something about narcotraficantes [drug traffickers] and stuff and a mi me dicen Sor Juana a mi me dicen sorpresa. [they call me Sor Juana, they call me surprise] And they take out their cuernos de chivo [guns] and start shooting everybody. So that's the only thing I ever heard about Sor Juana.

Jeimmy: But then they start actually taking a taste of life. Like, "Oh no sweetie, it's not just this. We got to pay rent, we got to pay food, we got to pay the baby's diapers." So at the end, they're worse than if they would've just stayed with their parents. And I guess a lot of teens take that decision and make that error because they don't really know what life is.

Jeimmy: So, they start getting a boyfriend, their boyfriend buys them clothes, buys them this, buys them that. They believe that moving in with their boyfriends at 15 years old is going to remove them from that poorness, or their boyfriend is going to give them better opportunities than their parents.

Jeimmy: And here, it's not like that. It's like the government doesn't help you in anything. So people don't care about a cell phone. They don't care about a computer. They just want to feed their kids. So these kids just grow up thinking that they're always limited. They're always limited to not being able to have this because their parents can't afford it.

Jeimmy: I think it's because when you're a teenager over there, it's like your parents, they worry on giving you material stuff. In the States, the government helps you with food vouchers, there's Goodwill, there's Salvation Army where you can go to the store and buy Levi jeans for a dollar or two. So it's like the government actually helps you. Like, "If you're poor, it's fine. We'll help you feed yourself and we'll help you with clothes. All you have to do is like, I don't know, just put in $20 for a cell phone."

Jeimmy: And I have a neighbor that's 32 and she's already a grandma with four nietos, four grandkids. So, it's like, “Wow.”

Jeimmy: But here in Mexico, they get pregnant at 16, they leave their kids with their grandma, and go party and do whatever they wanted to do during their age. And then it's like the little changes goes on. Then they're like 30 years old, their kids are 15 years old, and they're already like grandmas. So it's like a little cycle that just goes on and on.

Jeimmy: Yeah. Because in the States, you see women that are 30 years, and they're getting married at 30 years.. So, you're like, "Oh, she enjoyed her teenage years, she enjoyed her life, she already did, and so on, whatever she wanted to. And now that she's ready, she's going to get married, she's going to have kids, and everything's going to be perfect."

Jeimmy: I have like cousins, siblings, that they're 14, 15 years old and they already had kids. They have a horrible life because they can barely get a job, they can barely feed their kids. I don't know for what reason. For them, it was urgent to just get pregnant. So, that's not general, but at least that's what I've noticed here in Mexico: that the majority of teenage girls just want to get pregnant as soon as possible.

Jeimmy: Something else, I don't know why. This isn’t general, but the majority of women in Mexico or girls these days, they're 14, 15 years old, and they're already getting pregnant and having kids when they barely finished middle school. So it's like everybody looks at me, or at least in my family, and it's like, "Oh, Jeimmy, why haven't you gotten married yet?" Like, "I'm 22 years old. I still live with my parents. Why would I get married?" [Laughs].

Jeimmy: For example, here in Mexico, it's always like, primero yo, después yo y al ultimo yo. [first me, next me, and last me] So everybody's like, yo te chingo a ti antes de que tu me chingas a mi. [ I’ll fuck you before you can fuck me] You can speak to any Mexican and that's basically their mentality. And I'm not like that. I'm like, "I'll help you, hoy por mi, manana por ti.” [today from me, tomorrow from you] So I'll help you today and I expect, or I hope, that you help me tomorrow. So, that's one thing.

Jeimmy: Well, I always thought that knowing English wasn't something bad. I always considered it like, "Okay, I'm not wrong. You guys are the ones that are wrong. And I want to see you guys in 10 years and see what you got to tell me about that." And yeah, I mean, nine years later, eight years later, I'm here working at a bilingual call center.

Jeimmy: No, I'm glad. My life was always like up and down and from left to right because I never had a stable home, never had a stable school, and never with stable people. But at the end of the day, that affected me in a way that right now, as an adult, I can't stay more than two years in one place. I'm like, "Okay, I need to go. I need to either get a new job or go live somewhere else.”

Jeimmy: Both. Because it would be like you would pick the best out of both sides. For example, in America, if you have garbage, pick it up and take it with you until you find the garbage can.” And the Mexican version would be like—how can I say it? I don't know. It's just that my parents raised me like… I don't know.

Jeimmy: Well, no, not really. I enjoyed the time I was there, and they would tell me, "Do you want to go back?" I would probably say no, but I mean it was nice.Tim: Why wouldn't you want to go?Jeimmy: Because I feel free here. I have my family here. I might not see a grass and ponds and so what, but I see my city and el Monumento de la Revolución , el Angel. I've been to other states like Cancun. Cancun is beautiful. I would rather be in Cancun than in the States. And you also make dollars in Cancun. So I mean it's nice.

Jeimmy: Honestly, I don't know them. I don't. No, let me see if I remember. When I was in fifth grade, that was when I was like mostly into football because my teacher, she used to love football. So she's the one that involved me in all that. I don't remember the player. There was a player that she loved, and she was like, "Oh my God, he's so cute." And I started, I'm like, "Yeah, he is cute."

Jeimmy: But you also see really handsome men. And for me, it's hard to find a handsome man in Mexico. Don't you agree? [Everyone laughs].

Jeimmy: I like football. Yes, I like football. I love it. Because I also have that. I prefer American men than Mexican men. So if you look at like ... I mean guys make fun of girls because of this. Girls only see soccer because they see the guy. But it's true. I mean honestly, it is true. I like seeing football because I mean it's a savage game where you see men pushing each other and throwing them against each other, and it's pretty cool.

Jeimmy: I guess there were social teachers, because this lady, she was bilingual so she would teach me in English and Spanish. So, she would teach me in English and if I didn't understand, she would just tell me in Spanish and then showed me what it was or how to say it in English.

Jeimmy: No, actually that school in specific, I felt like there was a lot of help and they were – nos estaban apoyando mucho. [they helped us a lot.]

Jeimmy: And the teachers, they were all so different. The English teacher was like, "Oh, okay, you know English. Perfect. Just do one examen [exam] and whatever you get on that examen, va ser tu calificación para todo el semestre." [exam will be your grade for the semester]And I'm like, "Okay, 10, there you go." A 10 for the whole semester. I didn't have to go to the classes because the teacher already knew that I knew English.

Jeimmy: So it stayed quiet for a while, but then he left. Then everybody started making fun of the kid that got whooped by a teacher. And yeah, that was basically like the most impact made during my middle school experience here in Mexico.

Jeimmy: Yes. You know what I hate about Mexican stores? They never fridge milk. It's like you'd go and ask for a leche, y te dan una leche al tiempo [milk, and they give you milk at room temperature] It's like, “Bro, why don't you put it in the fridge. It tastes so good when it's cold.” [Tim laughs]. Sugar tastes different. Even water tastes different. Everything's so different.

Jeimmy: No, nothing. Kids or teenagers were more open minded. Instead of making fun of me because I knew English, they would be like, "Oh, you know English. Okay, let's hang out. I can teach you Spanish, you can teach me English. I can teach you math and you can teach me English." So they were more like, "Okay, let's help out each other."

Jeimmy: So this other teacher, le decian el padrino, [they called him the godfather] because literally, era el padrino [he was the godfather] like everybody there. So, he comes in with like typical macho Mexicano with his mustache beard, bien cabron. [a right bastard] And he comes in there and everybody's like, “oh el padrino viene el padrino.” [oh, the godfather, the godfather’s coming] So like Everybody's like quiet. And one of them, he was just like, "I don't care, que esto y el otro" [this and that] He was fucking ... I'm sorry. [Laughs].

Jeimmy: He was from one table to another. He was literally like on top of the tables jumping from one table to another. So el padrino comes in and he's like, "Get down from there." And he's like, "No, que esto y el otro." He's like, "Get down from there." "No, I'm not going to get down. What are you going to do about it?"

Jeimmy: He takes his belt off and he's like, “One, two, three.” And you just see him just sit down. Like nothing happened. And then he starts putting order. Like, "I'm tired of you guys always doing whatever you guys want, que esto y el otro." And everybody's like, "Oh my God. Did he just whoop him?” “Yeah, he did."

Jeimmy: And they were trying to look for a substitute teacher. So while they were looking for a substitute teacher, we were like three weeks without a teacher. So you could imagine kids just coming in and out of the classroom, throwing stuff. Everybody was doing whatever they wanted. And then they found a substitute teacher, but the kids were so horrible that the substitute teacher left crying and didn't come back.

Jeimmy: I would say they don't even teach you it. They just go to waste their time on you and get paid off of it. Because in the three months that I was there, I honestly don't remember learning anything. Like nothing. It was just like going and wasting my time because I was going for like two weeks and then this teacher, she -- se fracturó la mano and so le dieron incapacidad. [she broke her arm and was put on disability]

Jeimmy: Well, you get used to it. Because here in Mexico, I've been here for like nine years, and I still don't have like one best friend. So it's like, "Okay, friends come and go." I mean, they're always going to be there, but you're always going to meet new people.

Jeimmy: Well, there were friends, but it was like, "Oh okay. I have to go now. Bye." So I never actually grew up with a best friend.

Jeimmy: Well, we lived with his sister. She was in Iowa. After that, we went to Chicago where my mom's brother was at. Then we went to Buffalo, New York. A couple of years later, we went to Illinois, and Racine, Wisconsin.

Jeimmy: I was one year old when my father left, and two years old when my father decided to pay so that my mom and I could crossover. So I was two years old.

Juan: Well, not really. It just, it bothers me a lot. It just bothers me, this indifference from the government. They are very indifferent. They know for a fact, because they even have programs to help immigrants returning. But the fact is, it's just to make them look good, to sound good, just to get a job. When in reality they're not helping anything. All that money that is supposed to go to help people, they're pocketing it. And it bothers me, it makes me angry about it. I know of many cases, I have seen many cases. I have been with them when they thought they had a job and they can't get a job. And that really bothers me. And as a citizen, I would like for this government to really get their act together and do something about it. Enough is enough, and they really need to start doing their jobs and getting their hands out of their pockets and do something about it.

Juan: And people are struggling out here. They can't find a job, they can't ... They are, a lot of times, living on the street. I know of people that are living on the street, they don't have nowhere to stay because they can't afford it, they cannot pay. How can they afford it if they cannot get a job? If they cannot get a job, if they can't get a way to make their living, how in the world are they going to do? What are they going to do? So many, many end up in drugs or in alcoholism. And I just hope, my hope is for this to reach the right ears and for someone to do something about all this crisis. Because it's a humanitarian crisis, that's what it is.

Juan: The Mexican government don't care, don't help on anything, to the citizens. The Mexican government, they just think of filling up their pockets. That's all they care about. Versus the United States, you're allowed to ... And that's why they call it the American dream, because you're allowed to do as much as you want, as much as you can. And I've seen many, many, many immigrants, undocumented immigrants, becoming millionaires with starting their own businesses. And I know many cases where, if not millionaires, they're living very good because they started their own business and just because they're allowed to get their business going and everything. Over here, the bureaucracy and the corruption, it's killing the small businesses. The enterprise or the small business is under the corruption and the bureaucracy of Mexico.

My next, my daughter is eighteen and just graduated from high school. And she is going to join the army. And she leaves in July and I'm going to hate not to be there to say goodbye and hug her. I just hate the idea of her leaving for a long time, for almost a year, on the basic training, and I'm not going to be able to be with her to say goodbye or give her a hug or anything like that. And my youngest, she's a junior in high school. She has two more years of high school and she wants to go to college.

My next, my daughter is eighteen and just graduated from high school. And she is going to join the army. And she leaves in July and I'm going to hate not to be there to say goodbye and hug her. I just hate the idea of her leaving for a long time, for almost a year, on the basic training, and I'm not going to be able to be with her to say goodbye or give her a hug or anything like that. And my youngest, she's a junior in high school. She has two more years of high school and she wants to go to college.

Juan: Yes. I lived there for twenty-eight years. I got there in 1990 and I lived there for twenty-eight years. I lived in several States. I lived in the state of California. Then from there, I went to New York. In New York, I used to live in ____. And from there, I moved to Texas, to the ____ area.

Yordani: I mean I had some friends who were like, "Sometimes I've been discriminated." Like, "Oh you're American" tu vienes de alla because they know that I come from over there. Like, "Nah, you're from over there, you're American, you can't be a part of this", or something like that. So yeah, then I'm , "Nah, I'm Mexican too. I was born here. Yeah, I lived over there, but I was born here." So it's like, yeah they don't see me as too Mexican. I see myself as Mexican. It's because of that I said not too much.

Yordani: I mean, I came and yeah they had to ask me for like get my transcript. I mean the school did give me my transcripts. Other people here have trouble with that, they won't get their transcript unless they were there in person. I mean, I guess I was lucky that I got those. I guess I didn't really struggle too much with that, but I see how other people do.

Yordani: Well, yeah. Yeah, definitely becoming a good software developer. Just establishing myself as good. I mean, I don't want to be the best. I want to be up there. I don't want to be the best. Like I want to set goals for myself, I want to accomplish them. And yeah, maybe if getting a visa doesn't work out, like my parents get deported, I'll be there to support my mom.

Yordani: I mean that was my reason for coming over here. I felt so trapped in the game. I was like, "If I just go over there, I'm going to be forced to not play video games. I'm going to be forced to reintegrate into society and just change, you know? Like, just coming back here is going to change me." And it did, I guess it worked, I saved myself, I guess.

Yordani: Let's see... Well, I really feel like this was all my fault. I hung out with the wrong crowd. I mean part of it was my status, but mostly it was my life decisions, you know? I hung out with the wrong crowd. I guess I didn't really have guidance. I ended up in a position where I didn't like being there. I guess I found the solution was to leave.

Yordani: Yeah. I mean now I feel like more part of here now that I have spent more time here, so I'm getting used to it here. I guess I'm seeing myself more as a Mexican citizen now. I'd still like to go there though, I still want to... I don't know. I guess I was a citizen, I wish I was a citizen of Mexico and the United States. That'd be fucking awesome. I live here and then over there, it's like... Yeah, that'd be sweet.

Yordani: Yeah, definitely. Like the type of music I listen to, sometimes my ideas are very different.Lizzy: Like what kind of ideas?Yordani: I guess like my religion, I guess I was born into Christianity, and here it's like Catholicism, so it's like, my family is Catholic. It's like, "Oy."

Yordani: I guess just the culture, I guess. Yeah, I had Mexican parents, but it's like I interacted more with Americans, so it's like... I guess, the music. Yeah, the music, I guess. Yeah, not too sure. The lifestyle, I'm used to having more money, and the style too like... here I guess. Well, here in Mexico, it's more varied, but where I'm from, el rancho , they dress a certain way. They have their own style. I don't really follow that. You know, like they dress in their hats and stuff like that and like I don't really do that. Like the music too, I don't really feel like I really like Mexican music. It's like I'm forcing myself to do it because I want to fit in, but in the end I don't.

Yordani: Well, I have no clue. I guess I feel more Mexican because I know that I was born here. I knew that I was not born over there. So it's like, I guess I feel more Mexican, but at the same time I feel sort of American-ish and Mexican American-ish. I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, I guess it's both.

Lizzy: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, that's huge. What about in the U.S.? What do you think the U.S. government could be doing differently in how they treat or how they support migrants, migrant families like yours?Yordani: I really don't really know how to answer that.

Yordani: Yeah, at first like, "I'm free." By a year I was like, "I'm good." And then it's like two years, it's like, "Okay, well, when am I going to see them?" I'm like, "This is..." Yeah, I guess you start feeling it. It took me awhile. I was like, "Dang, am I ever going to see them?"

Yordani: Well... I guess learning to speak Spanish better. Just feeling more free, like I can go wherever I want. Police aren't going to be looking at me, I don't have to worry about them. Whoa... Now with police are assholes sometimes, I guess everywhere they're that way. They're like that everywhere, right? But just that fear of like, "I don't know what's going to happen. They're just going to send me away", and stuff like, "I don't know what's going to happen." I guess that's gone.

Yordani: Yeah, at first, yeah because I wasn't used to it. Sometimes I would say words in English, they'd just come out of me, and it's like, "Oh dude, I didn't realize." You know? And they'd just be like, "What?" And just, yeah, I guess learning all these new words, you know?

Yordani: Like here people talk to each other with like jokes and stuff all the time, Mexicans, all the time. And sometimes you're left out because you don't understand what... It's like puns or something like that. They say something, but it means something else, and there's a lot of that. It's like you say one thing and then it's not... it doesn't mean that, it means something else. And so, you've got to like kind of learn to decipher that. It was really hard at first, I would always be out of the loop like, "Wh- What?", because that was hard.

Yordani: I guess just knowing what to do. I guess just first accepting the fact that I was just going to work in the field and I had nowhere else to go. Just like life was harder there... Just learning how to interact with people here, because they have a different way of communicating. It's like, you've got to communicate the way they do, otherwise you're like, I don't know, like, outcast.

Lizzy: And then you mention in the survey about, when we were talking about whether you feel safe in Mexico, and you said that at least you don't have the fear of the authorities that you have in the States.

Yordani: Nope, in high school. Around high school, like 9th, 10th grade. I guess that's what sent me down to depression because it was like 9th grade, you transition from middle school to 9th, it's a big change and then you find out this. And obviously, yeah.

Yordani: Anytime I had an encounter with the police, it just like... Oh, I have to say like red and white or something. I'd just really just feel very panicked inside. And it didn't help that sometimes I guess they'd tell my mom you know like, "Hey, immigration's around, don't open the door, if somebody knocks check who it is." It's like dang, you know?

Yordani: And so, when that happened, the police, they talked with me and my mom, they were like, "Hey, we know you're illegal. You know? We're not going to report you to immigration. We just want a clean community, we just don't want any problems." But still, it's like now they know. It's like, they know. Next time I do something, it's going to be, I guess, I'm just going to get kicked out or something. So it just created a fear.

Yordani: No, I’ve only one friend. I guess the feedback that he gave me, it's like I guess I didn't want to tell anybody. I felt really like... Yeah, I guess just ashamed for it. And then just scared, the police, they're going to ask me if I'm legal or not. And it became even more scary when I was in high school, middle school, and I was with the bad crowd and we bought some cans and spray painted this church. And the church was really nice. They didn't put charges and when we were cleaning they took us to eat. They were just really nice, you know?

Yordani: Yeah. It's like when I became aware of it, I told my friend and my friend was like, "You should get a -- your green card, you know?" And I guess ever since then I felt like... just judged, you know, like I felt afraid that somebody would find out. I was scared, you know? There was other people like me that... they wouldn't care, they'd share it, and I'd be like, "Why? You know... Why?" So it was really embarrassing for me.

Yordani: I mean, it was only that one day, and actually the church paid for it because I would go to this church. And yeah, I guess a little silly thing happened, my pastor came... My mom called the pastor because I wasn't listening to the doctor. I guess I was unconscious or something, and the doctor was giving me instructions because they wanted to remove the tube, and I had to sit up or something. I was sedated and they would remove the sedative and I'd wake up and they would ask me to do things, I wouldn't listen. So they called the pastor and I actually listened to him. The doctor would ask me to do something, I'd be like, "No, I'm laughing here." I'd be like, "No." And the pastor came and I was like, "All right, I did it." So they found out about it and they were nice enough to pay for that.