Mike: Oh yeah, drugs, man. It's just it didn't really get to me. But I could see if I didn't have that motivation in myself, I could see how it would be really easy to just go down a spiral and just drug binge. But luckily thank God that that didn't happen to me. But weed I would usually use it a lot, because it was my coping mechanism.Mike: When you smoke, it makes you feel like nothing is important. All your problems go away basically. And it was just like a coping mechanism to just go on every day with my life. I felt like if I didn't have that, there was no point. My life was whack.... There was one point in time that I had to smoke before I do something fun.Mike: It got to that point and it sucked, because I'm like, "You had so much energy. You did so many things and now it's like you got to smoke weed to have fun." You know what I mean? But that's the only thing I had a problem with. I've tried drugs, but it never really got something to where I could say like, "Dang bro, you're addicted. You need to stop."

I would always get beat up. This is an everyday thing fighting, because you have to. You are in the wrong hood, you're wearing the wrong color, you're going to get beat up.Mike: If you don't got a gun, like you're going to get either shot, or you're going to get beat up. It's one of the two. So, you always had to be ready. And yeah man, just it's a lot of stuff. I'm sorry. What was I talking about? I don't even remember what I'm talking about anymore. It's just so much things running through my mind.

Mike: Yeah. Marijuana. I feel like some people don't classify it as a drug, but at the same time, when you're depressed or when you're going through stuff, it really affects you. It affects every decision that you make. And, of course, everybody—I've tried drugs, I'm not going to say exactly which one, but I've experimented.Mike: I've never really liked it though. I don't like to be high because I used to fight a lot. I would always see that when I would smoke, I would always get beat up. This is an everyday thing fighting, because you have to. You are in the wrong hood, you're wearing the wrong color, you're going to get beat up.

Mike: So that's a lot of the reasons that I did stupid things too, because I was just trying to live that childhood—I feel like I got robbed, kind of. So sometimes when I do stupid stuff, I still have that mindset of a kid. It's weird. I don't know how to explain it. Just like I did a lot of stuff, because I felt like I got robbed of that time. So it's like, "You know what? If I go to a party and I get drunk and this and that and I get locked up—Oh well, I'm still young."

Mike: These were kids from Nigeria. They're African—these guys are like, "Whoa." So he caught it and then he just said hi to my mom. My mom was so mad that day, man. I didn't come home for like two or three days just because of that. I got a lot of stories. I'm sorry I get out of track.

Mike: Not even that, it's just getting with my stepdad. I'd always had trouble listening to male authority, just because I didn't have that at all. So every time he would tell me to do something, I'd get so mad. I just want to punch him in the face. And it sucked, man, because he would always try to tell me stuff—he would do it for my own good.Mike: He would never get out of hand talk to me, but I would always explode on him. I would treat him like the parent that I never had who wanted to be back in my life. So you know you could kind of treat him like however you want? That's how I would treat him. And I just started realizing over time my dad just—this guy really cares about us. He's providing for five kids and still doesn't ask for anything.Mike: It just started growing on me and we started getting along and it started getting better. But yeah, I would not get along with my mom, or my dad at all. And my mom was—I feel like a lot of Mexican women and men, they have something against black folks even if you want to or not. I feel like that's racist too, because my mom would always be like, "Why do you hang out with them? Why do you do this? Why do you do that?"Mike: I'm like, "Because they're cool, man. They're like... I feel like these are my people. They've gone through the same struggles, a lot of the same stuff that happened to them. They would happen to me." So I would always bring them over, and I remember one time my mom got so mad she grabbed an orange and threw it at my friend, but my friend was so tall, he just caught it.Mike: These were kids from Nigeria. They're African—these guys are like, "Whoa." So he caught it and then he just said hi to my mom. My mom was so mad that day, man. I didn't come home for like two or three days just because of that. I got a lot of stories. I'm sorry I get out of track.Anne: No, that's okay. That's okay [Laughs]. So when you started to work and it was working for your stepdad friend's company. When you started doing that, did you start getting along better with him and with your mom?

Anne: Why were you so mad at your mom do you think?Mike: Because all this stuff that happened, I kind of blamed it on her. Slowly I started saying because of one decision that she had made, all our lives got messed up, even if she wanted to or not, point blank period. But then I didn't think on both sides. I was really young, so I would always be like “Me, me, me.” When I started getting older, I realized like, "Dude, she only did it to give us a better life."

Anne: Was this your mom and stepdad?Mike: Oh yeah.Anne: Why were you so mad at your mom do you think?Mike: Because all this stuff that happened, I kind of blamed it on her. Slowly I started saying because of one decision that she had made, all our lives got messed up, even if she wanted to or not, point blank period. But then I didn't think on both sides. I was really young, so I would always be like “Me, me, me.” When I started getting older, I realized like, "Dude, she only did it to give us a better life."

Mike: I used to hang out with a lot of black people, so I was always the shortest one. I was always doing the most man. And I was like, "Dude, what's wrong with you?" Then everybody would be like, "Dude, calm down." You're like one of those mad chihuahuas. And I was like, "Dude, you're so right. I got to stop, man. I got to stop." Which is crazy.

It just releases my anger. And since I didn't want to take it on my family, I would just always, whoever wanted it, I'd be the first one to step in. And it's crazy because I was the shortest one I remember. I was the shortest one man.

Anne: You didn't go to school for two years?Mike: Yeah. I didn't go to school, because my dad thought that if something happened... And I remember one time the cops came to my house, because my little brother was playing outside and it was school hours.

"I'm not shit. What are they talking about? What do they see in me that I don't see in myself?" And it sucked because other people looked at my potential and I put myself so low that I didn't even look at that. Every time they're like, "Dude, you've got so much potential." And I'm like, "Yeah, right dude, what are you talking about? You just trying to butter me up man."

Mike: I got a lot of disorderly conducts and it was for fighting. It's just something about fighting that just releases the stress. It just releases my anger. And since I didn't want to take it on my family, I would just always, whoever wanted it, I'd be the first one to step in. And it's crazy because I was the shortest one I remember. I was the shortest one man.

And I was with that guy. Fights. I also loved fighting. It's just a way of me just getting my anger out.

Mike: Basically it was just petty things. They would always catch us for skipping school. One time I remember my friend went into a gas station and stole some cigarettes, which is—how do you grab the cigarettes in the back counter? And I was with that guy. Fights. I also loved fighting. It's just a way of me just getting my anger out.

Mike: Oh yeah. A couple of times. But it was my high school year, so it never stayed in my record, but I was getting in trouble constantly. And I liked it, because my parents would have to suffer. That's the sucky thing about it. Looking back at it now, I put my mom through a lot of stuff, and it sucks

Mike: Remember when I told you that my mom put in the Visa U or some stuff like that? Since they denied us, they wouldn't give us another shot. I had to wait a certain amount of years.

Mike: So we never got married. I never fixed anything. I could, I had the chance because at that time they told me, "Why don't you put your papers in?" My boss—damn, that guy has helped me a lot. His name is Richard Perkin. Man, that guy's like a second father to me. He did everything he could to try to help me out and my status, but at that point it was already too late because they had denied us for—

Mike: I didn't like her and I didn't want to do that to her. But she was just wanting to help me out so I could get my papers, but I couldn't do it to her, man. I just imagine myself like, "Damn, she's going to marry me." And then like, "What if I'm not the right one, and then she's going to have to go. She's taking that sacrifice for me. I don't feel like that's fair."

Mike: No, that was actually... She was still in high school. She was in senior year I believe. I wasn't in high school anymore, I was working at that time, working for the Solar Spot. I had barely started working for the Solar Spot and she kind of gave me motivation to do better. When you have somebody, you want to take them out and do extra stuff. So you're like, "Yeah man, I got to get this money."Mike: And that was another motivation that helped me kind of get up at a higher level than I was. But it was just a lot of stuff. When you have kids young, you think you want something, but you don't know. It's just like you think you like the person but you don't like them. You just like them for their looks or their body, and that was my mistake. And yes, she actually told me if I wanted to marry her.

Mike: I was almost there, and my AIMS... Everything I passed it except for the math. I passed all my AIMS exams. You know the test that you take at the end of the year, Stanford or AIMS or whatever they are?

Mike: I passed all of them except for my math. My senior year I actually passed it, but I didn't graduate. I just would go to school, literally eat lunch, just get out. It got boring for me and I was really good. I should have never started.Mike: I remember I was taking Japanese, I was taking English, social studies, a bunch of extra stuff just to try to advance my knowledge and stuff, but I don't know. Once you don't get that motivation and wants to stop, it sucks.

Mike: And I remember I bought my whole family stuff, and I had the whole cops crying. The whole department was crying because of all the kids, I was the only one that got something for their family. The cops looked at that and they're like, "Wow, you're so young, but yet still you're family orientated."

I remember my teacher, Ms. Garcia—I'll never forget her, she's an angel. She signed us up for this program where you could go ride along with the cop and you would go to a store, you had $200 and you could buy whatever you want.

Mike: We weren't from there, so we didn't get any of that. I remember my mom signed us up for this Christmas thing, because we didn't have any money. And this was before I got kidnapped. She signed us up for this little Christmas thing and we weren't accepted, because we weren't from there. From the United States. So that program didn't apply to us, they said.

Mike: But I started seeing that some of the stuff that they were saying was true and started trying to do better and trying to do something. And then when I had my first kid, I was like, "Nope, I'm not going to give him the life that I have." And he was a big motivation. My first kid was a really big motivation to just get on it.

"I'm not shit. What are they talking about? What do they see in me that I don't see in myself?" And it sucked because other people looked at my potential and I put myself so low that I didn't even look at that. Every time they're like, "Dude, you've got so much potential." And I'm like, "Yeah, right dude, what are you talking about? You just trying to butter me up man."

Mike: That was going on high school. I think it was my freshman year, because like I said man, it's just all these things that happen to you, there's just only so much you could take to where you're like, "You know what? Eff it." You're just done with everybody and you're just like, "You know what? If life paid me back like this, then why should I care?" You know what I mean? And it makes me feel like inferior at times.Mike: So yeah, I feel like it was around my freshman year, everything started going downhill, because I used to be in events, classes, and all my teachers loved me. I would have conversations like this with my teachers and they'd be amazed sometimes like, "Wow, this kid has so much insight. So much to talk about." And they would always encourage me, but the thing about it is I wouldn't feel like that.Mike: I would always feel like, "I'm not shit. What are they talking about? What do they see in me that I don't see in myself?" And it sucked because other people looked at my potential and I put myself so low that I didn't even look at that. Every time they're like, "Dude, you've got so much potential." And I'm like, "Yeah, right dude, what are you talking about? You just trying to butter me up man."

Mike: I feel like I kind of took the burden of kind of being the man of the house that, that kind of just wore me down. So my brothers and sisters seen that and I was kind of like the black sheep, but I was like an example. Like, "Oh, don't be like him." So I feel like I wasn't there to help them, or to actually guide them like a big brother should, but at least I was like, "Okay, don't be like him." You know what I mean?

Mike: Just going through everything, it kind of made me not have feelings for anybody, because when you have feelings for somebody that's a way that somebody could hurt you. So it's like you block all that out and you don't want nothing to do with it, because that way you can get hurt. I'm sorry, I'm going off topic.

Mike: It was gang members. I used to hang out with people that they didn't care for themselves. I remember walking into my friend's house and the house was just like, "Oh my God." It was like a tornado went in and I usually don't hang out with people like this. I was so scared just being in that house and I just started getting used to it, because those are the people that I could not relate to, but I had something in common like, "Okay if you're not ish, then I'm not an ish either."Mike: So we relate and I feel like kind of adopted. They kind of adopted me. The streets adopted me kind of in a way. I didn't really have a relationship with my family. When there was a family events or anything, I felt like an outcast. I would never go to them. Christmas, I was always in my room. Every little... It's just weird man. Everything messed me up. I feel like traumatic. Just the trauma of everything.

Mike: I started hanging out with the wrong kind of kids. These other kids that wouldn't go to school and I noticed what type of kids I was hanging out with. I noticed the difference, because there's productive people that make you want to do better, and there's this people that just see you and they want to see you do as bad as them.Mike: So they kind of drag you down under. I felt like I just wanted to fit in kind of because all my life I felt like I wasn't equal—I don't know how to explain it. It's just I just wanted to fit in kind of, not feel like I wasn't as good as them, because I felt like I was always inferior, because I didn't have the things that they had.

Mike: So they kind of drag you down under. I felt like I just wanted to fit in kind of because all my life I felt like I wasn't equal—I don't know how to explain it. It's just I just wanted to fit in kind of, not feel like I wasn't as good as them, because I felt like I was always inferior, because I didn't have the things that they had.

Mike: And then when they strip that away, that's when you kind of want to take your anger out, because you're like, "Wow. What else can I go through?" And then it starts raining just kind of like that scenario. But yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

Just got to go back to the old things that we were doing. But luckily, I was able to cut hair and do tattoos, and I was able to get by.

Mike: Yeah. But they didn't tell us that if he wasn't from there, that it didn't apply to us. And since he's not a resident, or he's not anything, they just took it all away. But they gave me a social security card. They gave me a work permit. They gave me everything that I needed. I even got my taxes one year [Emotional]. I got $3,000 back, put my taxes on my wall, like I'm really doing it.Mike: But then out of nowhere, stripped everything from us. We didn't know what to do. There was no... Just got to go back to the old things that we were doing. But luckily, I was able to cut hair and do tattoos, and I was able to get by.

Mike: And you know what's crazy? My mom actually signed us up for this program. It's called Visa U , which is a process for the immigration and it's just one route that you could go.Mike: She signed us up, but the people that were doing all the paperwork for us basically lied to us and basically committed fraud, because they told us that through this for certain we were going to be able to get papers, because we went through some kind of a violence.

Mike: I feel like if I was a little more informed, it would have gone a different way, or a little more help, programs or anything. I feel like I could have still had a fighting chance.

Anne: No, they haven't reached an agreement, but it's this new dream. If you had known that all you had to do was keep going to school and you could get a social security card and you could have a path to citizenship, would that have made a difference, do you think?Mike: Yes. I feel like yes, if I would have known earlier. But at the same time, once you start living in Arizona, or anywhere in the US, you kind of start thinking like you're from there. I was telling the nice lady from earlier, Anita, that once you get used to it, once you think that you're from there—that was my mistake, because I started not caring—you just start doing stuff that if you don't have papers you should know you're not supposed to do. I got kind of carried away and was trying to get the whole world. Because I didn't have my papers, I was trying to go after everybody. I'm like, "Okay. So if I can't work, cool, I'll just do my own thing, or I'll just do this, do that."

Anne: And you think that when she told you that getting a job was not an option, you think that broke you?Mike: Yeah. That really hurt like a lot, a lot. Oh man, I'm getting emotional, now because that sucks when you hear that stuff.

Mike: And I wish I had that energy in high school, but I don't know what happened. I just lost that. They took everything out of me. But yeah, when you get that motivation, I feel like anything is possible, because I learned how to draw, and I learned how to talk to people. There's a language barrier that's really, really hard. If you don't know English, you don't fit in.

Mike: And I wish I had that energy in high school, but I don't know what happened. I just lost that. They took everything out of me. But yeah, when you get that motivation, I feel like anything is possible, because I learned how to draw, and I learned how to talk to people. There's a language barrier that's really, really hard. If you don't know English, you don't fit in.Mike: I wanted to do better for myself and for my family, and I felt like that was like a big motivation right there. That push you just need, because you see stuff and you're like, "Dude, I hope that when I have kids, they don't have to go through that." And yeah, that was the push that kind of—

he's done a lot of sacrifices. At the same time, we're like the push he needed. So we both helped each other out.Anne: They're still in Arizona?Mike: Yeah, he's actually married to my mom. They got a house. I don't know how they do it, but they're blessed. Good people, do good things, I feel like you get blessed. Yeah, good karma just come back.

Mike: Yeah. My stepdad. She got with a guy before that and had a kid and then she got married to my stepdad. My stepdad was the one that actually kind of changed our lives, because we didn't have anything and he came into our lives and he got a better job. He started wanting to do better for the family that he just basically adopted, and—

Mike: And I feel that's why I kind of rebelled too. I don't know. There's a lot of stuff I wish I could have done different, but—Anne: Do your little sisters, your little brothers, would you say their experiences were very different than yours, because of your sacrifices? Or—Mike: Yes. Yes. A lot of them. A lot of things. If we didn't do, they probably would have had to do, because if it wasn't me, it would've been the next one. And they did have to go through that stuff too, in a way, because sometimes I couldn't do it, because I'd be in school doing something really, really important. My mom would be like, "No, just stay in school. Do this. Do that."Mike: So it's like she would take my other little brothers. But somebody always had to watch my little sisters. Yeah, it was just we took turns and stuff, but I feel like everybody felt it. Everybody got a chance to go through that stuff even if they didn't want to [Chuckle].

Mike: Those two years. Those two years I was out of school and stuff. And then I was in school with my mom, but in the mornings I would have to help her. So sometimes I would have to miss school, sometimes I wouldn't go to school. So then it was chaos.Mike: Sometimes you'd go to school, sometimes you wouldn't. It just depended on if you had money or if there was food on the table. But I got used to it. There's just only so much crying you could do basically until you're like, "You know what? You just got to have that solid heart so nothing can hurt you."

Mike: Yeah. I would sell CDs. Me and my mom would be the breadwinners basically. There was no other way. I was the only one that talked English, and it was just hard.

Mike: That's how we made our money and we made a living. And I remember growing up way too early, man. I used to cry sometimes, because I would wake up at 5:00 in the morning. I'm like, "Dude, I'm a little kid I don't deserve this." You know what I mean?

Mike: Yeah. But we were used to it though. I was used to it at least, because growing up my mom didn't have a job so she couldn't provide for us even if she wanted to, because she's illegal. So what we would do is we would make fake CDs, and every morning I would just wake up, go to different little towns and stuff, sell CDs.

Mike: It sucked. It sucked so bad. We couldn't go to school. We didn't have papers. On top of that, we're not from there.

ike: It sucked. It sucked so bad. We couldn't go to school. We didn't have papers. On top of that, we're not from there. So we don't have papers. Not papers, but you know how you have to get the medical shots. We had to redo all of that stuff. So my mom got the shots, did all the immunization records and all that stuff. When we were with my dad, we didn't have none of that. So we had to redo it again.

Mike: We stayed with them for a couple of days, and then they flew us back to Arizona where my mom was staying at. So yeah, those two years being away from her, my dad had lied to us and said that she didn't want us anymore because she had another kid on the way. And yeah, my dad didn't care. He just lied to us and said that my mom didn't want us.Mike: So, I was thinking like, "Why do you want us back? You say you didn't want us.” Little did I know all that. She told me all this stuff that happened and I just started busting down and crying. And I was always mean to my little stepsister too. But once I learned about how my dad, when she was a newborn, put her in the closet with my mom—got my mom butt naked and put her in the closet—and left her there and then took us to Texas… I used to be mean to my little sister, but after I heard that, I was just like—me and her just got close and stuff. Yeah.

Mike: And I had remembered he had already done that. He gave me a bag of chips, and he just told me, "Pay me back whenever you come." So I was like, "Dude, I can't do that again, because I don't have no money this time" [Emotional]. So I remember I prayed to God. I prayed to God. I was like, "Please God help me. I don't want to steal from this man. He's really good guy." And, oh dude, this is crazy, because I look in my pocket—I had the chips in my hand and I was acting like I had money. Sure enough, I reached in my pocket, and I had a dollar. A freaking dollar. I was like, "God I know you're real." Because at that time I was like, "Yeah." But I got home, opened the little bag, put some lime, put some hot sauce, feed my little brothers and sisters.Mike: Then I'm telling you, we were so hungry that I had some seeds, some plants—the garden seeds and stuff. I went outside thinking that they were going to grow in a couple of days. I made myself a little garden, I was planting them, and I was like, "Please, God..." When I was praying, I was like, "Please God, let me get this food so I can feed my brothers and sisters, because I don't know when my dad is going to come.” And right when I look up, I see two officers. A lady and then a man. They said they were US Marshalls or something like that. They took us.

Mike: Yeah. And that's that right there... I could see why single mothers and people that just don't have any help, why they stress, or why they go through all that stuff, or why they treat their kids bad and stuff, because it’s hard taking care of kids. I remember not having anything.

Mike: And it took a whole month for the cops to come to my house.

Mike: My dad was already in the States. But a couple of years passed after we crossed the border, my mom and my dad didn't get along, and my dad was really controlling and abusive. So my mom ran away and took us to Los Angeles to live with my uncle. And, at that time, my dad didn't know where we were, because my mom was really scared.Mike: She took us to Los Angeles to live with my uncle, and I remember we moved back to Arizona, because we thought my dad wasn't there anymore. Well, we were staying in this little spot called Conway, Arizona—like two, three months. And at that time my dad found us—because one of my family members told him where we were—and he tied my mom up, went in there with another guy, masks on and kidnapped us.Mike: He took us to Texas for two years. We were actually on the news as missing children. If you look me up, I have all our photos. We were gone for two years, and the reason that they found us was because my dad was actually trying to rob a wheel store—rim store. He broke in and the police got him, and they took him to jail, but they had no idea who he was or he was being looked for.

"What am I going to get my kids if I just decided to go there and do it illegally and start all over if not try to do something here?"

Mike: I could cross the border right now if I wanted to, but I feel like, "What's the point if I'm going to be in the same status, or the same place, not having a future?

So, but I did a voluntary departure, because I want to see my kids. I got two kids actually. So I want to see my kids and I want to do it legally.

And since it was marijuana was illegal they told me I had to go to jail. So I went to jail. I stayed a day—

And since it was marijuana was illegal they told me I had to go to jail. So I went to jail. I stayed a day—

Mike: Yeah. So I started working in the solar business with him, and it was actually good money. Really, really good money. From then on I started working with him. Everything was good, but I got caught with... What was it called? Something in my ear. A blunt in my ear. And it was in a hotel.

Mike: Yeah. So I started working in the solar business with him, and it was actually good money. Really, really good money. From then on I started working with him. Everything was good, but I got caught with... What was it called? Something in my ear. A blunt in my ear. And it was in a hotel.

So I asked my mom if I could get a job, and that's when she broke it down to me that I wasn't even from here. And that was right there like a slap in the face.Anne: So you were 15?

I noticed all my friends getting jobs and having new shoes and this and that. And I would ask him like, "What are you doing?" And he was like, "I just got a job. I got a car. I got this."

Mike: I was doing really good. I was actually doing advanced classes, and this was all from first grade onto middle school. I was doing a lot of extra stuff, but once I started getting into high school, I noticed all my friends getting jobs and having new shoes and this and that. And I would ask him like, "What are you doing?" And he was like, "I just got a job. I got a car. I got this."

Mike: I was in kindergarten when I crossed the border and, yeah, I remember it was tough. I remember we didn't have any water, and the coyotes had beer and I was so thirsty and they kept telling me, "No, you don't want this. You don't want this.

Mike: And I remember it was me, my mother, my two little brothers—my sisters weren't born at the time—and the two coyotes, the people that cross you. Yeah, I remember that, because that was really, really hard. Just being three days in the desert, especially when you're like three or four, that right there just takes a toll—

oing to the US, how old you were, your first impressions, why you went or your family went.

Mike: All this green and pus was coming out and a lady from the Taco Bell gave us some food, and let us stay with her. Really good people too. I remember that every time I think about that. But we started living with them and then we started getting side jobs here and there. There was also a point in time where my dad and my mom really didn't get along.

I was so thirsty and they kept telling me, "No, you don't want this. You don't want this." But I was so thirsty, I just took a drink and it was the best thing in life. [Laughs] I think that's why I kind of like it now, but I don't have a problem with it, but...

well, my mom decided—that she wanted a better life for us. So we ended up crossing the border to Arizona. It actually took us three days.

m driven, man. I'm extremely driven. When you grow up with all of these people telling you that you can't, you want it more and you want it more and you have this hunger inside of you that you want it and you need it and you're going to make it, and I'm pretty sure I could run laps around all these fuckers that were born citizens.

The apartment that we moved into in California was a one-bedroom apartment. It was a big complex and I remember it. There was a pool in the middle and there were a lot of families like us that shared a one-bedroom apartment. And there were eight to twelve people in this one space, and we were trying to find something bigger, but it was impossible.

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