18 Matching Annotations
  1. Last 7 days
    1. WhatsApp has its own backup feature (actually, it has more than one way to do it.) WhatsApp supports end-to-end encrypted backups that can be protected with a password, a 64-digit key, and (more recently) passkeys. WhatsApp’s public docs are here and WhatsApp’s engineering writeup of the key-vault design is here. Conceptually, this is an interesting compromise: it reduces what cloud providers can read, but it introduces new key-management and recovery assumptions (and, depending on configuration, new places to attack). Importantly, even if you think backups are a mess — and they often are — this is still a far cry from the effortless, universal access alleged in this lawsuit.

      WhatsApp has its own backup feature, w additional key pairs etc. But this is not what is being claimed.

    2. Several online commenters have pointed out that there are loopholes in WhatsApp’s end-to-end encryption guarantees. These include certain types of data that are explicitly shared with WhatsApp, such as business communications (when you WhatsApp chat with a company, for example.) In fairness, both WhatsApp and the lawsuit are very clear about these exceptions. These exceptions are real and important. WhatsApp’s encryption protects the content of your messages, it does not necessarily protect information about who you’re talking to, when messages were sent, and how your social graph is structured. WhatsApp’s own privacy materials talk about how personal message content is protected while other categories of data exist.

      The lawsuit is not about metadata, or WhatsApp use within a company which is not E2EE apparently (making it very unsuited for work situations I'd say)

    3. The most important thing to keep in mind here is that Meta’s encryption happens on the client application, the one you run on your phone. If the claims in this lawsuit are true, then Meta would have to alter the WhatsApp application so that plaintext (unencrypted) data would be uploaded from your app’s message database to some infrastructure at Meta, or else the keys would. And this should not be some rare, occasional glitch. The allegations in the lawsuit state that this applied to nearly all users, and for every message ever sent by those users since they signed up. Those constraints would tend to make this a very detectable problem. Even if WhatsApp’s app source code is not public, many historical versions of the compiled app are available for download. You can pull one down right now and decompile it using various tools, to see if your data or keys are being exfiltrated. I freely acknowledge that this is a big project that requires specialized expertise — you will not finish it by yourself in a weekend (as commenters on HN have politely pointed out to me.) Still, reverse-engineering WhatsApp’s client code is entirely possible and various parts of the app have indeed been reversed several times by various security researchers. The answer really is knowable, and if there is a crime, then the evidence is almost certainly* right there in the code that we’re all running on our phones.

      If the claim is correct, one could reverse engineer the app to see if true. Not a low hurdle but possible. 'the answer is knowable'

    4. Today WhatsApp describes itself as serving on the order of three billion users worldwide, and end-to-end encryption is on by default for personal messaging. They haven’t once been ambiguous about what they claim to offer. That means that if the allegations in the lawsuit proved to be true, this would be one of the largest corporate coverups since Dupont.

      Publicly WhatsApp has always maintained they do E2EE, the lawsuit says otherwise, that would be a major scandal. But also makes the claim hard to swallow

    5. Beginning in 2014 (around the time they were acquired by Facebook), the app began rolling out end-to-end (E2E) encryption based on the Signal protocol.

      WhatsApp started rolling out E2EE around the time they were acquired by Meta. They use the Signal protocol

  2. Jan 2026
    1. Confer, e2ee llm chat by Moxie Marlinspike (of Signal). Of course this whole encryption thing isn't necessary, if you run things locally. Somehow that option isn't mentioned anywhere. Unclear which model is being used.

  3. Sep 2024
    1. it feels we’re creeping ever closer to that goal of providing the missing communication layer for the open Web. The European Union’s Digital Markets Act (DMA) is a huge step in that direction - regulation that mandates that if the large centralised messaging providers are to operate in the EU, they must interoperate. We’ve been busy working away to make this a reality, including participating in the IETF for the first time as part of the MIMI working group - demonstrating concretely how (for instance) Android Messages could natively speak Matrix in order to interoperate with other services, while preserving end-to-end encryption.

      Matrix seeing DMA as supportive towards their goal of open web's communication layer. Actively demo'ng Android interoperability while preserving E2EE, and participating in IETF / MIMI ( https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/mimi/about/ )

  4. Jul 2023
  5. Nov 2020