10,000 Matching Annotations
  1. Mar 2026
    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to investigate whether disruption of intracrine steroid hormone metabolism contributes to meibomian gland dysfunction and proposed a "vicious cycle" of gland dysfunction and inflammation, using a global Had3b6 knockout mouse model. The work addresses an important aspect of MGD, but its impact may be limited unless the intracrine mechanism can be more clearly distinguished from systemic hormonal effects.

      Strengths:

      This study addressed an important question. The hormonal regulation of the meibomian gland has long been recognized. If clarified, the concept of local steroid metabolism influencing gland homeostasis could have implications for understanding disease mechanisms and identifying therapeutic targets.

      Weaknesses:

      The use of a global knockout makes it difficult to separate local intracrine effects from systemic hormonal changes, and key controls and hormone measurements are lacking.<br /> LPS-induced inflammation may not reflect the chronic nature of MGD.

    2. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      While the results show some loss in the eyelid meibomian glands, there is significant gland retention in HSD3b6 KO mice, as shown in Figure 2. This is supported by the lack of DEG patterns showing downregulation of Meibum lipid genes (AWAT2, Far2, Soat1, Plin2, SCD, etc.), and no decrease in Pparg expression, known to be critical for meibomian gland lipid gene expression.

      Weaknesses:

      It should be noted that while the authors indicate that CD38 is significantly up-regulated in the HSD3b6 KO mouse, the increase was not sufficient to show a significant adjusted P-value. Bulk RNA sequencing also shows no significant change in meibum lipid gene expression for aged mice that are treated with 78c, an inhibitor of CD38, which the authors indicate increases NAD levels, leading to increased meibomian gland size compared to vehicle-treated mice. Unfortunately, there was no increase in meibum lipid gene expression with 78c, as identified by adjusted P-value. However, it should be noted that the supplemental file covering DEG expression was labeled as a Microarray analysis. This did not include the 78c+NMN treated mice, which the authors contend show a more impactful effect on the meibomian gland.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful evaluation and insightful comments regarding the interpretation of meibomian gland phenotypes and gene expression profiles.

      Regarding the point on the apparent retention of meibomian gland structure and the lack of downregulation of key lipid-related genes (e.g., Awat2, Far2, Soat1, Plin2, Scd, and Pparg), we agree that these observations are important for interpreting the extent of gland dysfunction. In the revised manuscript, we will more clearly present and discuss the RNA-seq data, including the expression profiles of representative meibomian gland lipid genes (and other DEGs), to better contextualize these findings.

      With respect to Cd38 expression, we acknowledge that the statistical significance based on adjusted P-values was limited in the current microarray dataset. To address this point, we will perform additional validation using targeted quantitative PCR with specific primers to more accurately assess Cd38 expression changes.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, the authors demonstrate strong correlations between a pro-inflammatory state, the activity of an intracrine hormone (3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 3B-HSD), and the NAD co-factor. Specifically, in a 3B-HSD knockout mouse, there was an upregulation in pro-inflammatory cytokines and increased CD38+ cells (CD38 is an enzyme that depletes NAD, a necessary cofactor for 3B-HSD activity). Conversely, induction of inflammation in the eyelids resulted in reductions in 3B-HSD activity. Supplementation with 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) or the NAD precursor NMN, and inhibition of CD38 activity (78c), corrected the pathologies observed in both the 3B-HSD knockout mouse and the pro-inflammatory model (LPS injection into eyelids).

      Strengths:

      The experiments were performed with good rigor, assessing the impact of inflammation and 3B-HSD activity using multiple model systems. The endpoints represented a combination of transcriptional changes, protein quantification, enzymatic activity, and immunofluorescent microscopy. The authors use human tissue from both younger and older individuals to justify their hypotheses that increased CD38 + cells and reduced 3B-HSD quantity exist in older individuals. The data provide the foundation for assessing more global changes to the tear film and ocular surface.

      Weaknesses:

      The main weaknesses of the study include the following:

      (1) An absence of information on meibomian gland health, tear film, and ocular surface.

      (2) Too few human subjects to validate the hypotheses.

      Conclusion:

      Overall, this study demonstrates an important relationship that exists between intracrine signaling, inflammation, and cofactor signaling. It represents a novel approach in therapeutic design for patients with meibomian gland dysfunction.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation of our study and for recognizing the rigor of the experiments, the use of multiple model systems, and the potential of the data to provide a foundation for further investigation.

      Regarding the points raised under weaknesses, we agree that evaluation of meibomian gland function, tear film, and ocular surface phenotypes would provide important additional insight. In the present study, we focused primarily on the structural phenotype of the meibomian gland, particularly gland size, as a primary feature of MGD. We acknowledge that pathological assessments of gland function and ocular surface conditions have not been fully addressed. We will clearly state this limitation and expand the Discussion to position these aspects as important directions for future investigation.

      With respect to the limited number of human samples, we acknowledge that this is an important consideration for validating the translational relevance of our findings. We will revise the manuscript to more explicitly address this limitation and interpret the human data with appropriate caution.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to investigate whether disruption of intracrine steroid hormone metabolism contributes to meibomian gland dysfunction and proposed a "vicious cycle" of gland dysfunction and inflammation, using a global Had3b6 knockout mouse model. The work addresses an important aspect of MGD, but its impact may be limited unless the intracrine mechanism can be more clearly distinguished from systemic hormonal effects.

      Strengths:

      This study addressed an important question. The hormonal regulation of the meibomian gland has long been recognized. If clarified, the concept of local steroid metabolism influencing gland homeostasis could have implications for understanding disease mechanisms and identifying therapeutic targets.

      Weaknesses:

      The use of a global knockout makes it difficult to separate local intracrine effects from systemic hormonal changes, and key controls and hormone measurements are lacking.

      LPS-induced inflammation may not reflect the chronic nature of MGD.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful evaluation and for highlighting the importance of distinguishing intracrine mechanisms from systemic hormonal effects.

      We agree that, as currently presented, the use of a global Hsd3b6 knockout model makes it difficult to fully separate local intracrine effects from systemic hormonal changes. This point is also consistent with the major concern raised in the editorial assessment regarding the need to more clearly establish the proposed intracrine mechanism. To address this issue, we will strengthen the evidence for intracrine regulation by incorporating additional analyses. Specifically, we will assess systemic testosterone levels in Hsd3b6 knockout mice and include appropriate controls using orchidectomized (ORX) mice. These analyses will help to better distinguish local intracrine mechanisms from systemic hormonal influences.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study provides valuable insights into aged muscle stem cell biology by revealing phenotypic and functional heterogeneity within the geriatric MuSC pool and proposing a VCam-low/negative subpopulation that may account for the reported decline in MuSC numbers with age. These findings have implications for understanding aging-related changes in stem cell maintenance and for improving strategies to isolate or rejuvenate aged MuSCs. However, the evidence supporting the main claims is incomplete, key analyses such as absolute MuSC quantification, fate assessment of VCam-low/negative cells, inclusion of standard aged cohorts, and validation of proposed surface markers are still needed to confirm that overall MuSC abundance is maintained and that a distinct subpopulation has been identified.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      It is widely accepted that the number of muscle stem cells (MuSCs) declines with aging, leading to diminished regenerative capacity. In this study, when MuSCs were labeled with YFP at a young age, the authors found that the YFP-positive MuSC population remained stable with aging. However, VCAM1 and Pax7 expression levels were reduced in the YFP-positive MuSCs. These VCAM1-negative/low cells exhibited limited proliferative potential and reduced regenerative ability upon transplantation into MuSC-depleted mice. Furthermore, Vcam1-/low MuSCs were highly sensitive to senolysis and represented the population in which Vcam1 expression could be restored by DHT. Finally, the authors identified CD200 and CD63 as markers capable of detecting the entire geriatric MuSC population, including Vcam1-/low cells. Although numerous studies have reported an age-related decline in MuSC numbers, this study challenges that consensus. Therefore, the conclusions require further careful validation.

      Major comments:

      (1) As mentioned above, numerous studies have reported that the number of MuSCs declines with aging. The authors' claim is valid, as Pax7 and Vcam1 were widely used for these observations. However, age-related differences have also been reported even when using these markers (Porpiglia et al., Cell Stem Cell 2022; Liu et al., Cell Rep 2013). When comparing geriatric Vcam1⁺ MuSCs with young MuSCs in this study, did the authors observe any of the previously reported differences? Furthermore, would increasing the sample size in Figure 1 reveal a statistically significant difference? The lack of significance appears to result from variation within the young group. In addition, this reviewer requests the presentation of data on MuSC frequency in geriatric control mice using CD200 and CD63 in the final figure.

      (2) Can the authors identify any unique characteristics of Pax7-VCAM-1 GER1-MuSCs using only the data generated in this study, without relying on public databases? For example, reduced expression of Vcam1 and Pax7. The results of such analyses should be presented.

      (3) In the senolysis experiment, the authors state that GER1-MuSCs were depleted. However, no data are provided to support this conclusion. Quantitative cell count data would directly address this concern. In addition, the FACS profile corresponding to Figure 4D should be included.

      (4) Figure S4: It remains unclear whether DHT enhances regenerative ability through restoration of the VCAM1 expression in GER1-MuSCs, as DHT also acts on non-MuSC populations. Analyses of the regenerative ability of Senolysis+DHT mice may help to clarify this issue.

      (5) Why are there so many myonuclear transcripts detected in the single-cell RNA-seq data? Was this dataset actually generated using single-nucleus RNA-seq? This reviewer considers it inappropriate to directly compare scRNA-seq and snRNA-seq results.

      Comments on revisions:

      Related to Comment#3: The percentage is also influenced by the number of other cell types. Therefore, to demonstrate cell removal, it is necessary to present the absolute number of cells. If the cells were removed and were not replenished from Vcam1+ cells, the absolute number of cells should be reduced.

      Related to Comment#4: Without the DHT+Senolysis experiment proposed by this reviewer or related experiments, there is no evidence demonstrating that GERI-MuSCs functionally rejuvenate. The current data only show that VCAM1 expression is restored.

      Related to Comment#8: Individual results from 3-4 biological replicates should be shown in Figure 4. It will help readers to recognize the variation of each sample.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Kim et al. investigate heterogeneity in aged muscle stem cells using a model that enables lifelong lineage tracing. The questions addressed in the paper are highly relevant to the fields of aging and stem cell biology, and the experimental approach overcomes some of the limitations of previous studies.

      The study provides evidence for phenotypic and functional heterogeneity within the lineage-traced aged MuSC pool. However, the data as presented do not yet support the broader conclusions that MuSC abundance is maintained with age or that a previously unrecognized aged MuSC subpopulation has been identified. These claims would require stronger age-matched cohorts, absolute cell counts normalized to tissue mass, and direct comparison to previously described aged muscle stem cell states.

      If the core observations were experimentally reinforced, this study could prompt the field to reassess muscle stem cell loss, heterogeneity, and age-associated changes in canonical marker expression in geriatric mice. However, because several of the central claims depend on analyses that are currently incomplete, the conceptual impact should be treated as provisional. The deposited bulk RNA-seq and scRNA-seq datasets should be useful for mapping these states to existing atlases and for re-analysis by groups interested in quiescent and senescent programs in geriatric muscle stem cells.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Kim et al. describes a MuSC subpopulation that loses VCam expression in geriatric muscle and shows reduced ability to contribute to muscle regeneration. They propose that this population underlies the reported decline of MuSCs in aged mice, suggesting that these cells remain present in geriatric muscle but are overlooked due to low or absent VCam expression. The identification of a subpopulation that changes with aging would be compelling and of interest to the field.

      Strengths:

      The authors employ a wide range of assays, from in vitro to in vivo systems, to characterize Vcam-low/negative cells from geriatric muscle. The loss of Vcam appears strong in geriatric mice. They further identify CD63 and CD200 as potential surface markers that remain stable with age, thereby enabling the isolation of MuSCs across different age groups.

      Weaknesses:

      Some issues remain before establishing whether this population represents a true functional subset or explains the reported decline in MuSC numbers in aged mice. Stronger fate assessment of Vcam-low/negative cells is needed to assess their propensity for cell death and whether this contributes to the conclusions. Comparisons include young, middle-aged, and geriatric mice, but not aged (~24 months) mice, which would help comparisons to previous reports of age-related MuSC decline. The suggestion that the Vcam-low/negative population reflects a senescence-like state remains unclear, as these cells display limited canonical senescence markers, exhibit reversible cell-cycle exit, and yet are reported to be sensitive to senolytic treatment. Validation of CD63 and CD200 as reliable age-independent MuSC markers requires further testing, specifically using the Pax7-YFP tracing model and co-labeling in geriatric mice. Finally, the grouping patterns in some analyses suggest that the Vcam-low/negative fraction may be present in only a subset of geriatric mice, raising the possibility that it reflects health status or pathology rather than a consistent aging-associated phenotype.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) As mentioned above, numerous studies have reported that the number of MuSCs declines with aging. The authors' claim is valid, as Pax7 and Vcam1 were widely used for these observations. However, age-related differences have also been reported even when using these markers (Porpiglia et al., Cell Stem Cell 2022; Liu et al., Cell Rep 2013). (a) When comparing geriatric Vcam1⁺ MuSCs with young MuSCs in this study, did the authors observe any of the previously reported differences? (b) Furthermore, would increasing the sample size in Figure 1 reveal a statistically significant difference? The lack of significance appears to result from variation within the young group. (c) In addition, this reviewer requests the presentation of data on MuSC frequency in geriatric control mice using CD200 and CD63 in the final figure.

      (a) When comparing geriatric Vcam1<sup>+</sup> MuSCs with middle aged MuSCs, we found 1,428 DEGs, where 701 genes were downregulated and 727 genes were upregulated (Fig. S3E). Some of the pathways altered were similar to previously reported differences, such as alterations in the autophagy-lysosome related genes and PI3K-Akt Pathways. However, these alterations did not affect the functional integrity of geriatric Vcam1<sup>+</sup> MuSCs (Fig. 3 A-F). On the other hand, greater alterations were observed in geriatric Vcam1<sup>-</sup> MuSCs, accompanied by functional impairment. We have added further elaborations in the manuscript to reflect the comment from the reviewer (pg. 17, lines 369-379).

      (b) Thank you for this helpful comment. We understand the reviewer’s concern that the variability within the young group may contribute to the absence of statistical significance. We respectfully note that the variance observed in the young cohort could be biologically expected rather than technical noise. Multiple studies have shown that young adult MuSCs display great transcriptional and functional heterogeneity from undergoing post-natal myogenic maturation (e.g., Biressi et al., 2010; Tierney & Sacco, 2016; Motohashi & Asakura, 2014). This broader heterogeneity naturally increases variance in marker distribution within young samples. We would also like to clarify that our main conclusions are not solely based on differences in the overall proportion of YFP⁺ and Lin⁻ cells among age groups. Instead, we also rely on the functional and phenotypic heterogeneity that specifically emerges in geriatric MuSCs.

      Although the young group shows greater biological variation, the mean values are relatively similar among the groups. Multiple independent datasets in our study including functional performance and molecular profiles consistently show that the total MuSC frequency does not markedly decline with aging. For these reasons, even if the sample size is increased, we do not expect a change in the overall interpretation of this result. We have revised the Results section to acknowledge the variability observed in the young group and to emphasize that total MuSC frequency is not central to the conclusions of this study (pg. 6, lines 129-134).

      (c) MuSC frequency in geriatric control mice using CD200 and CD63 in the final figure are in the figure legend of Fig. 5F (pg. 39, line 825-828).

      (2) Can the authors identify any unique characteristics of Pax7-VCAM-1 GERI-MuSCs using only the data generated in this study, without relying on public databases? For example, reduced expression of Vcam1 and Pax7. The results of such analyses should be presented.

      In Fig S2C, using the bulk-RNA sequencing data generated in this study, we observe reduced expression of both Pax7 and Vcam1 in Pax7-VCAM-1 GERI-MuSCs population. To better highlight this finding, we have added text in the Results section that explicitly describes the reduced Pax7 expression and Vcam1 loss as distinguishing features of Pax7-VCAM-1 GERI-MuSCs in our dataset (pg. 9, lines 199-200).

      (3) In the senolysis experiment, the authors state that GER1-MuSCs were depleted. However, no data are provided to support this conclusion. Quantitative cell count data would directly address this concern. In addition, the FACS profile corresponding to Figure 4D should be included.

      In Figure 4D we quantified the frequency of VCAM1 Low YFP positive Lin negative MuSCs after senolysis treatment. This analysis shows a clear trend toward a decrease in the GERI subpopulation, although the difference did not reach conventional statistical significance in this experiment (t test p = 0.0596). We have therefore revised the text to describe this as a reduction trend rather than complete depletion, and we now explicitly report the p value in the results section (pg. 12, line 270-272). Furthermore, representative FACS profiles for Figure 4D is now included with the quantification (pg. 38, line 811-814).

      (4) Figure S4: It remains unclear whether DHT enhances regenerative ability through restoration of the VCAM1 expression in GER1-MuSCs, as DHT also acts on non-MuSC populations. Analyses of the regenerative ability of Senolysis+DHT mice may help to clarify this issue.

      We thank the reviewer for this important insight. We agree that DHT can act on non-stem cell populations in the muscle environment and therefore we cannot conclusively attribute the improved regenerative performance solely to restoration of VCAM1 expression in GERI-MuSCs. To address this concern, we have revised the discussion to explicitly state this limitation and to clarify that DHT may influence multiple cell types that contribute to muscle regeneration. We also indicate that combined senolysis plus DHT treatment would be an informative future approach, although additional animal experiments were not feasible within the scope of the current study (pg. 18, line 382-390).

      (5) Why are there so many myonuclear transcripts detected in the single-cell RNA-seq data? Was this dataset actually generated using single-nucleus RNA-seq? This reviewer considers it inappropriate to directly compare scRNA-seq and snRNA-seq results.

      Regarding the question of why many myonuclear transcripts were detected and whether this dataset was generated using single nucleus RNA sequencing, we confirm that the experiments were performed using single cell RNA sequencing. The presence of myonuclear transcripts likely reflects partial nuclear leakage or fragmentation during the enzymatic dissociation of aged muscle tissue. This is a known technical issue when preparing single cell suspensions from adult or geriatric skeletal muscle.

      To avoid inappropriate interpretation, we identified the myonuclear transcript enriched cluster and excluded it from all downstream analyses that involve MuSC comparison. Therefore, our major conclusions do not rely on this cluster. We have revised the Results text to clearly state that the dataset was generated using single cell RNA sequencing and to explain how myonuclear transcript-positive cells were handled (pg. 8, lines 176-181).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In this study, Kim et al. explore the heterogeneity within the aged MuSC population using a mouse model that enables lineage tracing of MuSCs throughout life. The questions addressed in the manuscript are highly relevant to the fields of aging and stem cell biology, and the experimental approach overcomes limitations of earlier studies. However, some of the claims would benefit from additional data analysis, and the central claim of the identification of a "previously unrecognized subpopulation" of aged MuSCs should be evaluated in light of prior work that has also examined MuSC heterogeneity in aging.

      Specific points:

      (1) As a general comment that is transversal to multiple figures, several experiments should include a direct comparison to a young cohort. Previous studies have shown that the depletion of subpopulations with aging is observed early in the aging process, for example, the loss of Pax7-high MuSCs is observed already in 18‐month‐old mice (Li, 2019, doi: 10.15252/embj.2019102154). Using only mice at 12-14 months as the control group is therefore insufficient to claim that no changes occur with aging.

      We thank the reviewer’s suggestion for comparing the aged mice to a young cohort and we acknowledge that previous studies have observed depletion of subpopulations is observed early in the aging process. However, this study is specifically designed to delineate the transition from middle aged to geriatric stages, rather than to characterize differences that are already well established in young versus geriatric comparisons. Previous studies have extensively documented the decline in MuSC function between young and aged animals, whereas the process and timing by which these changes emerge remain unclear. Our results show that major alterations in MuSC phenotype and identity are detected predominantly in the geriatric stage rather than at the middle aged stage. To avoid any misunderstanding, we have revised the text to clearly state that the primary objective of this work is to define the critical shift that occurs from middle aged to geriatric muscle stem cells (page 3-4, line 67-71).

      (2) One of the central claims of the manuscript is a challenge to the notion that MuSCs number declines with age. However, the data analysis associated with the quantification of YFP+ cells needs to be expanded to support this conclusion. The authors present YFP+ cells only as a proportion of Lin-neg cells. Since FAP numbers are known to decrease with aging, a stable proportion of YFP+ cells would simply indicate that MuSCs decline at the same rate as FAPs. To more accurately assess changes in MuSC abundance, the authors should report absolute numbers of YFP+ cells normalized to tissue mass (cells/ mg of muscle).

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We agree that a proportion based analysis alone does not fully exclude the possibility that MuSCs and FAPs decrease at similar rates during aging. At the time of isolation, muscle mass was not recorded, so we are unable to report YFP<sup>+</sup> cell numbers normalized to tissue weight as requested. To partially address this limitation, we have now clarified our gating strategy in the methods and Figure 1 to explicitly indicate Sca1<sup>+</sup> FAP exclusion (pg. 6, line 121-122, pg. 22, lines 460-463). These analyses do not support a major selective loss of MuSCs relative to other mesenchymal populations with aging.

      (3) The authors emphasize that several studies use VCAM1 as a surface marker to identify MuSCs. However, many other groups rely on α7-integrin, and according to Figure 1D, the decline in ITGA7 expression within the YFP+ population is not significant. Therefore, the suggestion that MuSC numbers have been misquantified with aging would apply only to a subset of studies. If the authors can demonstrate that YFP+ cell numbers (normalized per milligram of tissue) remain unchanged in geriatric mice, the discussion should directly address the discrepancies with studies that quantify MuSCs using the Lin−/α7-integrin+ strategy.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment. We agree that VCAM1 is only one of several commonly used surface markers for MuSC identification and that many studies quantify MuSCs using the Lin negative and ITGA7 positive strategy. That is why in our study, in addition to VCAM1, we also examined ITGA7 expression within the YFP positive population. Although the mean ITGA7 level did not significantly decline, the variance among geriatric MuSCs was significantly increased based on the F test. This supports the idea that aging does not uniformly reduce marker expression but instead increases phenotypic instability, which could lead to under detection of a subset of MuSCs even when ITGA7 is used as the primary marker. We have added this interpretation to the Discussion (pg. 16, lines 346-355).

      (4) The authors focus their attention on a population of VCAM-low/VCAM-neg subpopulation of MuSCs that is enriched in aging. However, the functional properties of this same population in middle-aged (or young) mice are not addressed. Thus, it remains unclear whether geriatric VCAM-low/VCAM-neg MuSCs lose regenerative potential or whether this subpopulation inherently possesses low regenerative capacity and simply expands during aging.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. In young and middle aged mice, the VCAM low or VCAM negative population is extremely small, nearly absent in most samples. The emergence and expansion of this population is therefore a feature that becomes detectable only at the geriatric stage. Given that these cells are not present in appreciable numbers earlier in life, the reduced regenerative performance observed in geriatric VCAM1<sup>low</sup> MuSCs likely reflects a phenotype that arises during aging rather than an inherent property of a pre-existing subpopulation. We have added this clarification to the Results section (pg. 7, lines 142-146).

      (5) According to Figure 1F, the majority of MuSCs appear to fall within the category of VCAM-low or VCAM-neg (over 80% by visual estimate). It would be important to have an exact quantification of these data. As a result, the assays testing the proliferative and regenerative capacity of VCAM-low/negative cells are effectively assessing the performance of more than 80% of geriatric MuSCs, which unsurprisingly show reduced efficiency. Perhaps more interesting is the fact that a population of VCAM-high geriatric MuSCs retains full regenerative potential. However, the existence of MuSCs that preserve regenerative potential into old age has been reported in other studies (Garcia-Prat, 2020, doi: 10.1038/s41556-020-00593-7; Li, 2019, doi: 10.15252/embj.2019102154). At this point, the central question is whether the authors are describing the same aging-resistant subpopulations of MuSCs using a new marker (VCAM) or whether this study truly identifies a new subpopulation of MuSCs. The authors should directly compare the YFP+VCAM+ aged cells with other subpopulations that maintain regenerative potential in aging.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. First, in response to the request for precise quantification, we now provide the proportions of VCAM1-high and VCAM1-low/negative MuSCs in each age group in the figure legends for Fig.1F (pg. 34-35, lines 765-772). In geriatric mice, VCAM1 low/negative MuSCs represent approximately 44.6% ± 35.7%, whereas VCAM-high MuSCs represent 3.9% ± 1.8%. The substantial variability reflects mouse-to-mouse heterogeneity at very advanced ages.

      Importantly, our conclusions do not rely solely on the observation that a large fraction of geriatric MuSCs exhibit reduced regenerative potential. Rather, the VCAM-low state represents a transcriptionally and functionally distinct subpopulation that emerges specifically in the geriatric stage, and exhibits molecular signatures not present in young or mid-aged MuSCs. We have expanded the Results and Discussion to clarify this point.

      Regarding whether VCAM-high geriatric MuSCs correspond to previously reported “aging-resistant” MuSCs (e.g., Garcia-Prat 2020; Li 2019), we agree that there may be conceptual overlap, as both populations retain regenerative activity. However, those studies identified resilient MuSCs based on mitochondrial or Pax7-high properties, whereas our classification is based on surface VCAM1 intensity, and we currently lack direct evidence that these populations are equivalent. We have therefore added a statement acknowledging this possibility while clarifying that our work does not claim that VCAM1-high MuSCs represent a newly discovered resilient subset, but instead focuses on the emergence and characterization of the VCAM-low dysfunctional subpopulation (pg. 16, lines 346-355).

      (6) In Figure 3F, it is unclear from the data presentation and figure legend whether the authors are considering the average of fiber sizes in each mouse as a replicate (with three data points per condition), or applied statistical analysis directly to all individual fiber measurements. The very low p-values with n=3 are surprising. It is important to account for the fact that observations from the same mouse are correlated (shared microenvironment, mouse-specific effects) and therefore cannot be considered independent.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important statistical point. We fully agree that individual myofibers from the same mouse are not independent biological replicates. In morphometric analyses of regenerated muscle, however, it is standard practice to analyze the full CSA distribution across all regenerated fibers, as the distribution itself (rather than a per-mouse mean) provides the biologically relevant measure of regeneration quality.

      The original analysis therefore treated each regenerated fiber as a component of the overall CSA distribution, not as an independent biological replicate, and the statistical comparison was performed at the level of distributions rather than per-mouse replication. We agree that per-mouse averaged CSA values would also be informative, but the raw data were not archived in a format that allows reconstruction of mouse-specific fiber subsets.

      Importantly, the group-level CSA distribution differences are robust and remain clearly detectable regardless of statistical approach. We have added clarification in the figure legend to explicitly describe how CSA measurements were obtained and analyzed mouse (pg. 36, lines 796-800).

      (7) Regarding Figure 5, it is unclear why ITGA7, a classical surface marker for MuSCs that appears unchanged in aged YFP+ MuSCs (Fig. 1F), is considered inadequate for detecting and isolating GERI-MuSCs.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. As shown in Figure 1F, the mean ITGA7 expression level does not significantly decline in geriatric YFP positive MuSCs. However, the variance of ITGA7 expression is significantly increased in geriatric MuSCs based on the F test, indicating instability in surface marker expression. This suggests that a fraction of MuSCs may fall below the conventional gating threshold for ITGA7 during aging. Therefore, ITGA7 remains effective for identifying a large portion of MuSCs but may under detect the subset of geriatric MuSCs with reduced marker expression. We have revised the Discussion to clarify this point (pg. 16, lines 346-355).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 3B: In the colony formation assay, the authors should specify the number of biological replicates and the number of cells analyzed per mouse.

      We have now added the number of biological replicates and the number of cells analyzed per mouse in the figure legend of Figure 3B (pg. 37, lines 790-791).

      (2) Figure 3F: The replication number is indicated as n = 3, which appears to refer to the number of transplanted mice. How many myofibers were analyzed in each transplanted mouse? The authors should provide a more detailed description of the methodology in the Figure legend or M&M.

      We thank the reviewer for the question and clarify that n = 3 refers to three independent transplanted mice per group. For each mouse, the entire TA muscle was cryosectioned and immunostained, and all regenerated fibers containing centrally located nuclei were included in the CSA quantification. We have added clarification in the Figure legend to indicate that quantification was performed on all regenerated fibers from each mouse (pg. 37, lines 796-800).

      (3) Figure 4: The RNA-seq results are presented as a single dataset per sample. If multiple experiments were performed, individual datasets should be shown. Replicated analyses are essential to ensure the reliability of the findings.

      In response to the reviewer comment, we confirm that the RNA sequencing in Figure 4 was performed with 3-4 independent biological replicates for each condition. These replicates showed very consistent sequencing quality and gene expression profiles and were therefore combined for the differential expression analysis. We have revised the materials and methods to clearly describe the number of biological replicates and the analysis workflow. (pg. 25, lines 543).

      (4) Line 148: If the authors examined MyoG expression, it should be described as committed myoblasts.

      We have now changed the term from myoblasts to committed myoblasts (pg. 8, line 168).

      (5) Typo and Referencing Errors:

      (a) Line 244: The term 'Antide' appears to be a typo.

      We thank the reviewer for noting this point. ‘Antide’ is not a typo but the correct name of a GnRH antagonist (Antide acetate). To avoid confusion, we have revised the text to specify ‘Antide, a GnRH antagonist’ at its first mention (pg. 13, line 289).

      (b) Lines 278, 280: Please correct Figure 5H to Figure 5F.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the figure notations accordingly (pg. 15, lines 326-330).

      (c) Some references are incomplete or inappropriate (ex. line 49, line 71, line 86, line 109).

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the references accordingly (pg. 4, line 94, pg.6, line 117).

      (d) Line 49: Skeletal muscle regeneration is orchestrated primarily by tissue resident stem cells, known as muscle stem cells (MuSCs) or satellite cells (Relaix et al., 2021). The following paper should be cited:

      Satellite cell of skeletal muscle fibers.

      MAURO A. J Biophys Biochem Cytol. 1961 Feb;9(2):493-5.

      The reference has been revised (pg. 3, line 49).

      (e) Line 109: Paired box protein 7 (Pax7) is a transcription factor widely recognized as a defining marker of MuSCs (Sambasivan et al., 2011). The following paper should be cited:

      Pax7 is required for the specification of myogenic satellite cells.

      Seale P, Sabourin LA, Girgis-Gabardo A, Mansouri A, Gruss P, Rudnicki MA. Cell. 2000 Sep 15;102(6):777-86.

      The reference has been revised (pg.6, line 117).

      (6) Lines 73-74: Many rejuvenation studies define 'aged' mice as 12 to 24 months old. This reviewer is not aware of any studies that have examined 12-month-old MuSCs as a model of aging.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the numbers to 18 months accordingly (pg. 4, line 94).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Geriatric versus aged mice in the MuSC subpopulation analysis. The authors use geriatric mice (>28 months) to demonstrate the loss of VCam expression in MuSCs and propose that this accounts for previous reports of decreased MuSC numbers in aged contexts. However, as noted in their introduction, most reports use "aged" mice, which are typically around 24 months old, which is biologically distinct from the geriatric stage. This distinction makes it difficult to conclude that the reported decline in MuSC numbers in aged mice can be explained by the phenomenon observed only in geriatric mice (Line 289). The authors should test whether VCam expression is altered in aged (24-month-old) mice to strengthen this argument.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comment and agree that 24 month old mice are commonly used as an aged reference in the literature. However, prior studies using 18 to 24 month old animals have reported inconsistent results regarding whether and to what extent MuSCs decline during this period. To avoid ambiguity from intermediate aging stages, we purposefully selected geriatric mice older than 28 months, a condition under which MuSC depletion has been more consistently reported in previous studies. Notably, our data show that even at this stage MuSC abundance is not dramatically reduced, which makes it unlikely that a robust decline would already be present at 24 months. We have clarified this rationale in the revised text. Although investigating the precise timing of the emergence of these changes at earlier time points is an important future direction, it is beyond the scope of the present study.

      (2) Variability and bimodal distributions.

      Figure 1b: The decline in VCAM+ MuSCs in geriatric mice shows high variability - 3 of 7 replicates align more closely with young/mid-aged levels. Please clarify this variability.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the variability. We agree that there is heterogeneity in the extent of VCAM1 reduction across geriatric mice. This variability likely reflects animal-to-animal differences in the onset and progression of aging-related phenotypes, which are known to vary at very advanced ages. Importantly, despite this variability, all geriatric samples contain a detectable VCAM1 low population that is not observed in young or middle-aged mice, and the overall trend is consistent across all replicates. We have clarified this in the revised manuscript (pg. 6, lines 125-127).

      Figure 1c: While the Mid and Geriatric groups are tightly clustered, the Young group appears bimodal, which challenges the claim (Line 118) that values are "comparable across ages." Since all males were used and it is not sex related, what is driving this bimodal distribution?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation regarding the variability in the young group. Muscle stem cells in young adult mice are known to encompass diverse transcriptional and functional substates, which contribute to greater biological heterogeneity at this stage (Biressi et al. 2010; Tierney & Sacco 2016; Motohashi & Asakura 2014). As aging progresses, these substates gradually converge toward a common functional phenotype, resulting in more uniform profiles in middle-aged and geriatric mice. Therefore the bimodal appearance in the young group likely reflects the broader developmental heterogeneity of early adult MuSCs rather than a technical discrepancy. We have added this explanation to the revised in the results section (pg.6. lines 129-134).

      Figure 4D: Geriatric replicates also display a trimodal distribution. This should be addressed throughout - what is causing these types of distribution, and how does this impact significance tests and conclusions?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation regarding the multimodal distribution. We interpret this pattern as reflecting increased individual variability that becomes more pronounced at the geriatric stage. Even though aging affects all mice, the extent and timing of age-related phenotypic changes can vary considerably across individuals at very advanced ages. This leads to broader divergence in VCAM1 expression states among geriatric mice. Therefore, when we look at the correlation between VCAM1 High and VCAM1 Low/- population, there exists a significant negative correlation between the two populations (Fig. S3F). We have clarified this interpretation in the text and note that the statistical analysis was performed using the mouse as the biological replicate, so this variability does not alter the overall conclusion (pg.12-13, lines 270-278).

      (3) The fate of the Vcam-low/negative cells should be better assessed. For example, Line 180: Colony formation is low/absent in VCAM-low/- cells. Are these cells still viable? Cell death assays are needed. Is expansion capacity truly impaired, or are the cells simply non-viable? Using gene expression as the only means (Line 300) to suggest not dying is insufficient.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. As per the reviewer's analysis, there is lack of direct evidence to show that these cells are viable and apoptosis or viability assay would further strengthen our research. However, we carefully suggest that they are viable from the fact that these cells can be isolated by FACS and generate high quality RNA sequencing libraries, which would not be possible if they were undergoing cell death. Moreover, the transcriptomic data indicate upregulation of stress response and senescence associated pathways rather than apoptotic or necrotic signatures. These findings suggest that VCAM low or negative cells are alive but exhibit reduced proliferative and regenerative capacity. We have revised the text to clarify that our data reflect impaired function rather than loss of viability and that apoptosis assays represent a direction for future investigation (pg. 16, 360-366).

      (4) Transplant assays are suggestive, but could use additional characterization. Lines 191 & Figure 3E-F: While representative images match quantification, areas at the edge of VCAM-low/- TAs show signs of regeneration. Please include lower-magnification images. Additionally, assess early post-transplant engraftment efficiency - do certain populations experience a higher loss rate (cell death)? YFP-tracing would also help confirm the donor contribution to fibers.

      While we did not collect additional early time-point samples for new engraftment analyses, we carefully re-examined all available transplantation data, including the distribution and density of YFP<sup>+</sup> donor-derived cells in early post-injury sections. We did not observe patterns suggestive of differential early cell loss between VCAM-high and VCAM-low groups. Thus, although we cannot formally quantify early engraftment efficiency, the existing evidence does not support a model in which differential donor-cell retention accounts for the observed regenerative differences.

      Also, we attempted direct YFP co-staining of regenerated myofibers, but as reported by several groups, YFP signal within mature or regenerating myofibers is often diminished or inconsistent after fixation and permeabilization, making reliable fiber-level YFP detection technically challenging in our system. Therefore, instead, we confirmed donor contribution using PBS-injected control muscles, which lack donor MuSCs, and showed that PBS-injected muscles never generated YFP<sup>+</sup> fibers. This demonstrates that endogenous MuSCs do not contribute to YFP⁺ myofibers in our model, and therefore indirectly supports our suggestion that any YFP⁺-regenerated fiber necessarily originates from transplanted donor cells. We hope the reviewer understands the technical limitations.

      (5) Figure S3D: mRNA profiling suggests Mid-aged MuSCs are more distinct from Geriatric Vcam-hi than expected. This should be addressed or at least elaborated on in text.

      We appreciate this insightful comment. We agree that mid aged VCAM high MuSCs show detectable transcriptional differences from geriatric VCAM high cells. This pattern likely reflects the fact that some aging related molecular changes begin to accumulate gradually during the middle aged stage even before overt functional decline or VCAM1 loss becomes evident. Importantly, however, these transcriptomic shifts do not lead to the emergence of the VCAM low dysfunctional phenotype that is uniquely present in geriatric muscle. We have added clarification to the text noting that molecular alterations arise progressively while the major phenotypic transition in VCAM1 expression and regenerative impairment occurs at the geriatric stage (pg.11, 238-244).

      (6) The conclusion of senescence needs more support. Lines 218-226: p16 is elevated in VCAM-low/- cells, but drawing conclusions on senescence from 1-2 markers (mRNA) is insufficient. DQ Treatment: It's unclear how DQ alters cell composition in the absence of clear senescence markers (besides p16). Since DQ targets BCL-2/anti-apoptotic pathways, analyzing these signaling cascades is necessary. Line 255: The term "terminally senescent" is contradictory. These may be pre-senescent. It's also surprising DQ would target such cells, and further clarification is needed. Lines 307-313: Proposing a revised definition of senescence is premature. These cells may be pre-senescent, and multiple ways to senescence exist (replicative, stress-induced, etc.). Please clarify.

      We agree with the reviewer that the term 'terminally senescent' may be premature and potentially contradictory. Although p16 is elevated in this population, we acknowledge that one or two mRNA markers are insufficient to establish bona fide senescence, and that multiple senescence programs exist, including replicative, stress-induced, and mitochondrial-associated pathways. We have revised this to 'senescent-like' throughout the manuscript to better reflect the complexity of this state. Also, although beyond the scope of this study, we now emphasize that future studies incorporating additional senescence markers, functional assays, and lineage tracing will be required to determine the precise senescence status of VCAM-low MuSCs (pg.17-18, lines 381-392).

      Regarding DQ treatment, we agree that DQ is not selective for senescent cells, as it targets BCL-2–related survival pathways. The reduction of VCAM-low cells after DQ treatment therefore indicates increased dependence on survival signaling in this population rather than providing direct evidence of senescence. We have revised the text to clarify this interpretation (pg.12-13, lines 270-278).

      (7) Figure 5C: The Pax7+ cells appear interstitial rather than sublaminar. This raises questions about the specificity of staining. Providing lower-magnification images with these as insets may help.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We agree that the high-magnification image in Figure 5C may give the impression that Pax7<sup>+</sup> cells are interstitial due to the limited field of view. We regret to inform the reviewer that low-magnification images for this sample are not available as these images were obtained via confocal imaging where we only recorded areas of interest. Therefore, we are unable to provide an additional panel at this time and we hope the reviewer understand.

      (8) CD63 and CD200 expression on Pax7-YFP traced cells. Figure 5: YFP-traced geriatric MuSCs co-stained for CD63 and CD200 are essential. Current data only show expression in Young traced cells. It's crucial to confirm whether protein/surface expression persists in geriatric YFP+ (traced) cells. The current Figure 5 F does not appear to include YFP tracing for geriatrics.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the importance of confirming CD63 and CD200 expression specifically in Pax7-YFP traced MuSCs from geriatric muscle. The datasets shown in Figure 5F were generated from wild-type C57BL/6 mice using a standard MuSC gating strategy rather than Pax7-YFP animals. All geriatric Pax7-YFP mice available for this study were exhausted during earlier experiments, and additional tissue is not available for new co-staining or FACS analyses. We now state this technical limitation in the manuscript and clarify that the geriatric CD63/CD200 data were obtained from conventionally isolated MuSC populations rather than YFP-traced cells (pg.18-19, lines 407-416).

      Minor points:

      (1) Please show the outliers in addition to the concentric circles. Figures 1B, C, and F are examples, but this should be addressed throughout.

      Outliers have been added where applicable.

      (2) Figure 2C: Was a significance test performed between the 5 dpi and "geri" fractions?

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We have now performed the requested statistical comparison between the 5 dpi fraction and the geriatric VCAM1-defined subpopulations using the same analysis framework applied in Figure 2 (Kruskal–Wallis test followed by Dunn’s multiple comparisons).

      While 5 dpi MuSCs differed significantly from young MuSCs (adjusted p = 0.0139), the comparisons between 5 dpi and each geriatric subgroup (VCAM-high, -mid, and -low) did not reach statistical significance after correction for multiple testing (adjusted p = 0.17, 0.15, and 0.17, respectively). These results have been added to the revised Figure 2C corresponding figure legend (pg. 36, lines 777-780).

      Importantly, we now clarify in the text that although 5 dpi muscles display a prominent increase in VCAM1-high cells at the population level, this increase does not statistically exceed the variability observed within geriatric subpopulations under the conservative non-parametric testing framework used.

      (3) Line 155: The phrase "Surprisingly, all clusters mapped to quiescent clusters" is misleading; this is expected given the population type.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We have revised the sentence to remove the misleading wording and now describe the observation more accurately (pg. 8 lines 180-181).

      (4) Line 211: The figure notation should be corrected from Figure S4E to Figure S3E.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the figure notation for Figure S4E to S3E (pg. 11, line 247).

      (5) Line 216: "All of which" seems overstated. Many populations share similar profiles with minor differences.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment. We agree that the phrase “all of which” overstated the degree of divergence among clusters. We have revised the wording to more accurately reflect the data (pg. 11-12, lines 252-253).

      (6) Line 270: The notations for panels D, E, and F need to be updated to match the figure. Panel "H" is not indicated in Figure 5.

      We apologize for this error. We have fixed the figure notations accordingly (pg. 15, lines 326-336).

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study illustrates a valuable application of BID-seq to bacterial RNA, allowing transcriptome-wide mapping of pseudouridine modifications across various bacterial species. The evidence presented includes solid data and analyses that would benefit from additional experimental validation. The work will interest a specialized audience involved in RNA biology.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Xu et al. reported base-resolution mapping of RNA pseudouridylation in five bacterial species, utilizing recently developed BID-seq. They detected pseudouridine (Ψ) in bacterial rRNA, tRNA, and mRNA, and found growth phase-dependent Ψ changes in tRNA and mRNA. They then focused on mRNA and conducted comparative analysis of Ψ profiles across different bacterial species. Finally, they developed a deep learning model to predict Ψ sites based on RNA sequence and structure.

      Strengths:

      This is the first comprehensive Ψ map across multiple bacterial species, and systematically reveals Ψ profiles in rRNA, tRNA, and mRNA under exponential and stationary growth conditions. It provides a valuable resource for future functional studies of Ψ in bacteria.

      Weaknesses:

      Ψ is highly abundant on non-coding RNA such as rRNA and rRNA, while its level on mRNA is very low. The manuscript focuses primarily on Ψ on mRNA, which is prone to false positives. Many conclusions in the manuscript are speculative, based solely on the sequencing data, but not supported by additional experiments.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Xu et al. present a transcriptome-wide, single-base resolution map of RNA pseudouridine modifications across evolutionarily diverse bacterial species using an adapted form of BID-Seq. By optimizing the method for bacterial RNA, the authors successfully mapped modifications in rRNA, tRNA, and, importantly, mRNA across both exponential and stationary growth phases. They uncover evolutionarily conserved Ψ motifs, dynamic Ψ regulation tied to bacterial growth state, and propose functional links between pseudouridylation and bacterial transcript stability, translation, and RNA-protein interactions. To extend these findings, they develop a deep learning model that predicts pseudouridine sites from local sequence and structural features.

      Strengths:

      The authors provide a valuable resource: a comprehensive Ψ atlas for bacterial systems, spanning hundreds of mRNAs and multiple species. The work addresses a gap in the field - our limited understanding of bacterial epitranscriptomics, by establishing both the method and datasets for exploring post-transcriptional modifications.

      Weaknesses:

      The main limitation of the study is that most functional claims (i.e. translation efficiency, mRNA stability, and RNA-binding protein interactions) are based on correlative evidence. While suggestive, these inferences would be significantly strengthened by targeted perturbation of specific Ψ synthases or direct biochemical validation of proposed RNA-protein interactions (e.g., with Hfq). Additionally, the GNN prediction model is a notable advance.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aimed to investigate pseudouridylation across various RNA species in multiple bacterial strains using an optimized BID-seq approach. It examined both conserved and divergent modification patterns, the potential functional roles of pseudouridylation, and its dynamic regulation across different growth conditions.

      Strengths:

      The authors optimized the BID-seq method and applied this important technique to bacterial systems, identifying multiple pseudouridylation sites across different species. They investigated the distribution of these modifications, associated sequence motifs, their dynamics across growth phases, and potential functional roles. These data are of great interest to researchers focused on understanding the significance of RNA modifications, particularly mRNA modifications, in bacteria.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The manuscript by Xu et al. reported base-resolution mapping of RNA pseudouridylation in five bacterial species, utilizing recently developed BID-seq. They detected pseudouridine (Ψ) in bacterial rRNA, tRNA, and mRNA, and found growth phase-dependent Ψ changes in tRNA and mRNA. They then focused on mRNA and conducted a comparative analysis of Ψ profiles across different bacterial species. Finally, they developed a deep learning model to predict Ψ sites based on RNA sequence and structure.

      This is the first comprehensive Ψ map across multiple bacterial species, and systematically reveals Ψ profiles in rRNA, tRNA, and mRNA under exponential and stationary growth conditions. It provides a valuable resource for future functional studies of Ψ in bacteria.

      We thank Reviewer 1 for the supportive and positive comments, particularly for highlighting the novelty and value of our comprehensive pseudouridine landscapes across multiple bacterial species as a valuable resource for the scientific community.

      Ψ is highly abundant on non-coding RNA such as rRNA and tRNA, while its level on mRNA is very low. The manuscript focuses primarily on mRNA, which raises questions about the data quality and the rigor of the analysis. Many conclusions in the manuscript are speculative, based solely on the sequencing data but not supported by additional experiments.

      We appreciate the insightful comments of Reviewer 1. We fully agree that Ψ is highly abundant on rRNA and tRNA, while its fractions on mRNA are generally lower. Ψ is highly conserved at specific positions in rRNA and tRNA, such as Ψ within tRNA T‑arm (position 55), where it plays essential roles in tRNA structural folding, tRNA stability, and mRNA translation, across plants, mammals, and bacteria[1–3]. However, most Ψ sites in mRNA exhibit lower fractions compared to rRNA and tRNA. This phenomenon is also widely observed in HeLa cell mRNA and plant mRNA, as evidenced by bisulfite-induced deletion sequencing and 2-bromoacrylamide-assisted cyclization sequencing[3–5]. In bacteria, the modifications on mRNA are harder to map and quantify, due to its low abundance in total RNA and difficulty in bacterial rRNA removal. This highlights the significance of our study.

      To prove our data quality and analytical rigor, we first present the most convincing sites in bacteria, as benchmark sites. Specifically, we detected 9 out of 10 known conserved pseudouridine (Ψ) sites in E. coli across two biological replicates [6], displaying notable modification fraction. Ψ516 site in E. coli 16S rRNA, which serves as a benchmark site, consistently exhibited a high modification fraction (~100%) under multiple growth conditions, underscoring the robustness of our method. In other strains, we also observed conserved 16S rRNA Ψ sites.

      To further demonstrate strong reproducibility and sensitivity. We selected three positive Ψ sites from two independent biological replicates for experimental validation, alongside one negative control site, using pseU‑TRACE method[6]. Ct values were first normalized to the corresponding Ct value of the negative control site, and the treated samples were then further normalized to their corresponding input controls (new Supplementary Fig. 2e).

      Four Ψ sites were tested with pseU‑TRACE: Ψ site at position 944 on 23S rRNA, a negative control site located within guaA gene, a Ψ site within clpV1 gene, and an intergenic Ψ site located between guaA and guaB genes. We successfully validated these Ψ sites in P. aeruginosa. The detailed pseU‑TRACE experimental procedures and corresponding data figures have been added to the revised manuscript, in either Results or Methods sections (Line 171-175, 594–617).

      Previous transcriptome-wide mapping of Ψ have primarily relied on CMC-based methods to induce RT truncation signatures at the modified sites, exhibiting a limited Ψ detection sensitivity caused by low labeling efficiency[5]. In contrast, BID-seq method used in this study provides substantially higher sensitivity of Ψ detection, particularly the low-stoichiometry Ψ sites within mRNA. The high reliability and quantitative performance of BID-seq have been extensively validated in prior work using mammalian cells and synthetic Ψ-containing oligonucleotides[4].

      To further ensure robustness and minimize false positives—when identifying low-level mRNA Ψ sites through bioinformatic analysis—we have applied stringent and uniform filtration criteria to all candidate sites on mRNA (new Supplementary Table 1):

      (1) Total sequencing coverage >20 reads in both ‘Treated’ (BID-seq; Σd<sub>t</sub> > 20) and ‘Input’ libraries (Σd<sub>i</sub> > 20);

      (2) An average deletion count >5 in ‘Treated’ libraries;

      (3) An average modification fraction >0.02 (2%) in ‘Treated’ libraries;

      (4) A deletion ratio in ‘Treated’ libraries at least two-fold higher than that in ‘Input’ libraries.

      Sites with a Ψ stoichiometry >0.5 (50%) were classified as highly modified. These filtration criteria have now been explicitly described in Methods section (Lines 739–745). We strictly adhered to these Ψ site identification standards, leading to all subsequent analysis and functional studies.

      Finally, to address concerns regarding reproducibility, we calculated mRNA Ψ site overlap and correlation of Ψ fractions, between two biological replicates, which has been presented in (new Supplementary Fig. 2a,d).

      Overall, we have revised the manuscript to clarify these methodological strengths, and validate mRNA Ψ detection. We also tone down all speculative conclusions, with more clear linkage to the actual sequencing data, which await future functional validation.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Xu et al. present a transcriptome-wide, single-base resolution map of RNA pseudouridine modifications across evolutionarily diverse bacterial species using an adapted form of BID-Seq. By optimizing the method for bacterial RNA, the authors successfully mapped modifications in rRNA, tRNA, and, importantly, mRNA across both exponential and stationary growth phases. They uncover evolutionarily conserved Ψ motifs, dynamic Ψ regulation tied to bacterial growth state, and propose functional links between pseudouridylation and bacterial transcript stability, translation, and RNA-protein interactions. To extend these findings, they develop a deep learning model that predicts pseudouridine sites from local sequence and structural features.

      Strengths:

      The authors provide a valuable resource: a comprehensive Ψ atlas for bacterial systems, spanning hundreds of mRNAs and multiple species. The work addresses a gap in the field - our limited understanding of bacterial epitranscriptomics, by establishing both the method and datasets for exploring post-transcriptional modifications.

      We thank Reviewer 2 for the supportive and positive comments. We appreciate the reviewer’s recognition of the novelty and value of our work in providing a comprehensive pseudouridine atlas across multiple bacterial species.

      Weaknesses:

      The main limitation of the study is that most functional claims (i.e., translation efficiency, mRNA stability, and RNA-binding protein interactions) are based on correlative evidence. While suggestive, these inferences would be significantly strengthened by targeted perturbation of specific Ψ synthases or direct biochemical validation of proposed RNA-protein interactions (e.g., with Hfq).

      We thank Reviewer 2 for the constructive feedback. We fully agree that our functional claims regarding translation efficiency, mRNA stability, and RNA-binding protein interactions rely primarily on correlative evidence from existing datasets rather than a direct experimental validation. We agree that the perturbation of specific pseudouridine synthases and direct biochemical validation of proposed RNA-protein interactions (for instance, Hfq) would substantially strengthen the conclusions on bacterial Ψ function. In Discussion section, we have added a discussion on this limitation of our current study (Line 517–523). Considering the scope of our current work, we anticipate such validation experiments in future research.

      Additionally, the GNN prediction model is a notable advance, but methodological details are insufficient to reproduce or assess its robustness.

      In response to methodological concerns regarding our pseU_GNN prediction model, we have undertaken substantial improvements to address these issues comprehensively. We have updated the complete codebase on GitHub (https://github.com/Dylan-LT/pseU_NN.git) with comprehensive documentation and a user-friendly prediction tool specifically designed for Ψ site prediction across the four bacterial species examined in this study.

      We further systematically evaluated multiple neural network architectures and implemented critical architectural refinements. Specifically, we incorporated bidirectional LSTM (bid-LSTM) layers upstream of the transformer block to more effectively capture sequential dependencies and contextual information in RNA sequences. This enhanced architecture demonstrates substantially improved predictive performance, achieving an AUC-ROC of 0.89 on independent test datasets using 41-nucleotide input sequences (new Figure 6).

      We have revised Figure 6 and Supplementary Fig. 7, along with their corresponding content and figure legends (Lines 428-430, 434–436, 440-447, 1065-1073), to reflect these architectural improvements and performance enhancements. We have detailed the methods part (Lines 679–708), including model architecture, validation methods and evaluation score calculation. Additionally, we have provided detailed documentation of the evaluation score calculation methodology to ensure reproducibility and transparency.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aimed to investigate pseudouridylation across various RNA species in multiple bacterial strains using an optimized BID-seq approach. It examined both conserved and divergent modification patterns, the potential functional roles of pseudouridylation, and its dynamic regulation across different growth conditions.

      Strengths:

      The authors optimized the BID-seq method and applied this important technique to bacterial systems, identifying multiple pseudouridylation sites across different species. They investigated the distribution of these modifications, associated sequence motifs, their dynamics across growth phases, and potential functional roles. These data are of great interest to researchers focused on understanding the significance of RNA modifications, particularly mRNA modifications, in bacteria.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the supportive and positive assessment. We are particularly grateful for the reviewer’s acknowledgment of the value of our analyses on modification distribution, sequence motifs, growth‑phase dynamics, and potential functional roles, which we hope will be of broad interest to researchers studying bacterial RNA modifications, particularly mRNA Ψ.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The reliability of BID-seq data is questionable due to a lack of experimental validations.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the constructive feedback. We have undertaken comprehensive revisions to address the concerns regarding manuscript structure and information organization. We have incorporated pseU‑TRACE experiments and data quality results to provide orthogonal validation of Ψ detection, strengthening the robustness of our work.

      Here we copied the response in Reviewer 1 section:

      “To further demonstrate strong reproducibility and sensitivity. We selected three positive Ψ sites from two independent biological replicates for experimental validation, alongside one negative control site, using pseU‑TRACE method[6]. Ct values were first normalized to the corresponding Ct value of the negative control site, and the treated samples were then further normalized to their corresponding input controls (new Supplementary Fig. 2e ).

      Four Ψ sites were tested with pseU‑TRACE: Ψ site at position 944 on 23S rRNA, a negative control site located within guaA gene, a Ψ site within clpV1 gene, and an intergenic Ψ site located between guaA and guaB genes. We successfully validated these Ψ sites in P. aeruginosa. The detailed pseU‑TRACE experimental procedures and corresponding data figures have been added to the revised manuscript, in either Results or Methods sections (Line 171-175, 594–617).”

      (2) The manuscript is not well-written, and the presented work shows a major lack of scientific rigor, as several key pieces of information are missing.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the suggestion. We restructured the main text to present a clearer logical flow, with key objectives (Lines 83–96, 171–175, 428–447, 517-523) explicitly stated in Introduction section and Conclusions section, with data figures directly addressing these stated aims (Supplementary Fig. 1–7).

      (3) The manuscript's organization requires significant improvement, and numerous instances of missing or inconsistent information make it difficult to understand the key objectives and conclusions of the study.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the constructive feedback. All supplementary figures have been updated with detailed figure legend, methodology description, and consistent formatting. We also systematically inspected and resolved instances of missing or inconsistent information throughout the main text and supplementary materials (Supplementary Fig. 1–7; Supplementary Table 1). To enhance computational reproducibility, we have updated our GitHub repository with well-documented code and developed user-friendly prediction tools for Ψ identification across the four bacterial species examined in this study.

      (4) The rationale for selecting specific bacterial species is not clearly explained, and the manuscript lacks a systematic comparison of pseudouridylation among these species.

      We thank Reviewer 3 for the constructive feedback. The bacterial species analyzed in this study were selected based on both diversity and significance. K. pneumoniae, B. cereus, and P. aeruginosa are top model human pathogens responsible for a wide range of clinically significant infections, yet transcriptome-wide pseudouridylation has not been systematically explored in these organisms[7–9]. P. syringae, the most important model plant pathogen, was included to extend our analysis beyond human pathogens and to examine Ψ modification in a distinct ecological and evolutionary context, where epitranscriptomic regulation also remains poorly characterized[10]. Importantly, the selected species represent both Gram-positive (B. cereus) and Gram-negative (K. pneumoniae, P. aeruginosa, and P. syringae) bacteria, spanning substantial differences in genome size, GC content, lifestyle, and pathogenic strategies. This diversity enables a comparative framework for examining conserved and species-specific pseudouridylation patterns across bacterial lineages.

      To address the reviewer’s concern, we have revised the manuscript to more clearly articulate the rationale for species selection and have added a comparative analysis highlighting similarities and differences in Ψ site distribution and modification levels among these species (Lines 83–96). We systematically compared Ψ-carrying motif for analyzing sequence context of 10 bases flanking Ψ sites in bacterial mRNA, with Supplementary Fig. 4 added.

      Reference

      (1) Leppik, M., Liiv, A. & Remme, J. Random pseuoduridylation in vivo reveals critical region of Escherichia coli 23S rRNA for ribosome assembly. Nucleic Acids Res. 45, (2017).

      (2) Rajan, K. S. et al. A single pseudouridine on rRNA regulates ribosome structure and function in the mammalian parasite Trypanosoma brucei. Nat. Commun. 14, (2023).

      (3) Li, H. et al. Quantitative RNA pseudouridine maps reveal multilayered translation control through plant rRNA, tRNA and mRNA pseudouridylation. Nat. Plants 11, 234–247 (2025).

      (4) Dai, Q. et al. Quantitative sequencing using BID-seq uncovers abundant pseudouridines in mammalian mRNA at base resolution. Nat. Biotechnol. 41, 344–354 (2023).

      (5) Xu, H. et al. Absolute quantitative and base-resolution sequencing reveals comprehensive landscape of pseudouridine across the human transcriptome. Nat. Methods 21, 2024–2033 (2024).

      (6) Fang, X. et al. A bisulfite-assisted and ligation-based qPCR amplification technology for locus-specific pseudouridine detection at base resolution. Nucleic Acids Res. 52, (2024).

      (7) Wyres, K. L., Lam, M. M. C. & Holt, K. E. Population genomics of Klebsiella pneumoniae. Nature Reviews Microbiology vol. 18 Preprint at https://doi.org/10.1038/s41579-019-0315-1 (2020).

      (8) Kerr, K. G. & Snelling, A. M. Pseudomonas aeruginosa: a formidable and ever-present adversary. Journal of Hospital Infection vol. 73 Preprint at https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jhin.2009.04.020 (2009).

      (9) Ehling-Schulz, M., Lereclus, D. & Koehler, T. M. The Bacillus cereus Group: Bacillus Species with Pathogenic Potential . Microbiol. Spectr. 7, (2019).

      (10) Xin, X. F., Kvitko, B. & He, S. Y. Pseudomonas syringae: What it takes to be a pathogen. Nature Reviews Microbiology vol. 16 Preprint at https://doi.org/10.1038/nrmicro.2018.17 (2018).

    1. eLife Assessment

      The study curated a set of Liver X receptor ligands that may guide the design of future drugs that activate the Liver X receptor as potential therapeutics for cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's and type 2 diabetes, without inducing mechanisms that promote fat/lipid production. The authors also present improved multiplexed precision CRT (coregulator TR-FRET) and cellular assays which allows measurement of ligand potencies to displace corepressors in the presence of coactivators, which cannot be achieved in a regular CRT assay. This makes the evidence presented compelling as it stretches beyond the current state-of-the-art, and these important findings are expected to have practical implications in many sub-fields and remain of interest to scientists working in cell and molecular biology, drug discovery, medicinal chemistry and pharmacology.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This important study functionally profiled ligands targeting the LXR nuclear receptors using biochemical assays in order to classify ligands according to pharmacological functions. Overall, the evidence is solid, but nuances in the reconstituted biochemical assays and cellular studies and terminology of ligand pharmacology limit the potential impact of the study. This work will be of interest to scientists interested in nuclear receptor pharmacology.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors rigorously tested their ligand set in CRTs for several nuclear receptors that could display ligand-dependent cross-talk with LXR cellular signaling and found that all compounds display LXR selectivity when used at ~1 µM.

      (2) The authors tested the ligand set for selectivity against two LXR isoforms (alpha and beta). Most compounds were found to be LXRbeta-specific.

      (3) The authors performed extensive LXR CRTs, performed correlation analysis to cellular transcription and gene expression, and classification profiling using heatmap analysis-seeking to use relatively easy-to-collect biochemical assays with purified ligand-binding domain (LBD) protein to explain the complex activity of full-length LXR-mediated transcription.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have addressed the comments from the prior round of review with care. I find the revised manuscript significantly strengthened.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript by Laham and co-workers, the authors profiled structurally diverse LXR ligands via a coregulator TR-FRET (CRT) assay for their ability to recruit coactivators and kick off corepressors, while identifying coregulator preference and LXR isoform selectivity.

      The relative ligand potencies measured via CRT for the two LXR isoforms were correlated with ABCA1 induction or lipogenic activation of SRE depending on cellular contexts (i.e, astrocytoma or hepatocarcinoma cells). While these correlations are interesting, there is some leg room to improve the quantitative presentation of these correlations. Finally, the CRT signatures were correlated with the structural stabilization of the LXR: coregulator complexes. In aggregate, this study curated a set of LXR ligands with disparate agonism signatures that may guide the design of future nonlipogenic LXR agonists with potential therapeutic applications for cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's and type 2 diabetes, without inducing mechanisms that promote fat/lipid production.

      Strengths:

      This study has many strengths, from curating an excellent LXR compound set, to the thoughtful design of the CRT and cellular assays. The design of a multiplexed precision CRT (pCRT) assay that detects corepressor displacement as a function of ligand-induced coactivator recruitment is quite impressive as it allows measurement of ligand potencies to displace corepressors in the presence of coactivators, which cannot be achieved in a regular CRT assay that looks at coactivator recruitment and corepressor dissociation in separate experiments.

      Comments on revisions:

      These weaknesses have been satisfactorily addressed by the authors in the revised preprint.

    4. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This important study functionally profiled ligands targeting the LXR nuclear receptors using biochemical assays in order to classify ligands according to pharmacological functions. Overall, the evidence is solid, but nuances in the reconstituted biochemical assays and cellular studies and terminology of ligand pharmacology limit the potential impact of the study. This work will be of interest to scientists interested in nuclear receptor pharmacology.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors rigorously tested their ligand set in CRTs for several nuclear receptors that could display ligand-dependent cross-talk with LXR cellular signaling and found that all compounds display LXR selectivity when used at ~1 µM.

      (2) The authors tested the ligand set for selectivity against two LXR isoforms (alpha and beta). Most compounds were found to be LXRbeta-specific.

      The majority of ligands were found to be LXRβ-selective; however, examples of non-selective and LXRα-selective ligands were identified. It should be noted that this is a small compound set of literature ligands with reasonable structural diversity.

      (3) The authors performed extensive LXR CRTs, performed correlation analysis to cellular transcription and gene expression, and classification profiling using heatmap analysis-seeking to use relatively easy-to-collect biochemical assays with purified ligand-binding domain (LBD) protein to explain the complex activity of full-length LXR-mediated transcription.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The descriptions of some observations lack detail, which limits understanding of some key concepts.

      Changes to the submitted manuscript hopefully add clarity. Several observations reinforce aspects of the literature and are a corollary of the observation that the majority of ligands with agonist activity more strongly stabilize/induce coactivator-bound complexes with LXRβ. This results in general LXRβ selectivity for agonists and also more variability in the response of LXRα to different ligand chemotypes. The most significant observations were for partial agonists that stabilize corepressor binding, in particular of the complex with LXRα.

      (2) The presence of endogenous NR ligands within cells may confound the correlation of ligand activity of cellular assays to biochemical assay data.

      This is generally a confounding factor for ligands with apparent antagonist activity and is a source of ambiguity in designating inverse agonists across the nuclear receptor research field. Theoretically, this could also impact weak and partial agonists; however, this requires further study.

      (3) The normalization of biochemical assay data could confound the classification of graded activity ligands.

      Normalization to TO (100%) and vehicle (0%) is applied to most data. It is not clear how this confounds data interpretation. TO is a very reliable and reproducible agonist without significant bias towards LXR isoforms.

      (4) The presence of >1 coregulator peptide in the biplex (n=2 peptides) CRT (pCRT) format will bias the LBD conformation towards the peptide-bound form with the highest binding affinity, which will impact potency and interpretation of TR-FRET data.

      Multiplex assays must be optimized to balance binding affinity of the coregulator peptides (bear in mind these are somewhat-artificial small peptide constructs that are hoped to reflect binding of the much larger coregulator protein itself). Since the dominant theory of NR tissue-selectivity is based on the cellular availability (read concentration) of coregulators, this balance exists in a cellular context.

      (5) Correlation graphical plots lack sufficient statistical testing.

      Correlations are now supported by statistical data and we have added hierarchical clustering analysis.

      (6) Some of the proposed ligand pharmacology nomenclature is not clear and deviates from classifications used currently in the field (e.g., hard and soft antagonist; weak vs. partial agonist, definition of an inverse agonist that is not the opposite function to an agonist).

      Classifications used currently in the field vary from one NR to another and the use of partial and inverse agonist, in particular, is usually qualitative, unclear, and often misleading. We expand on these classifications with respect to our use of labels to classify pCRT response to LXR ligands. In agreement with the reviewer, we have replaced IA (inverse agonist) with (RA) reverse agonist as a label specifically associated with pCRT analysis.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript by Laham and co-workers, the authors profiled structurally diverse LXR ligands via a coregulator TR-FRET (CRT) assay for their ability to recruit coactivators and kick off corepressors, while identifying coregulator preference and LXR isoform selectivity.

      The relative ligand potencies measured via CRT for the two LXR isoforms were correlated with ABCA1 induction or lipogenic activation of SRE, depending on cellular contexts (i.e, astrocytoma or hepatocarcinoma cells). While these correlations are interesting, there is some leeway to improve the quantitative presentation of these correlations. Finally, the CRT signatures were correlated with the structural stabilization of the LXR: coregulator complexes. In aggregate, this study curated a set of LXR ligands with disparate agonism signatures that may guide the design of future nonlipogenic LXR agonists with potential therapeutic applications for cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, and type 2 diabetes, without inducing mechanisms that promote fat/lipid production.

      Strengths:

      This study has many strengths, from curating an excellent LXR compound set to the thoughtful design of the CRT and cellular assays. The design of a multiplexed precision CRT (pCRT) assay that detects corepressor displacement as a function of ligand-induced coactivator recruitment is quite impressive, as it allows measurement of ligand potencies to displace corepressors in the presence of coactivators, which cannot be achieved in a regular CRT assay that looks at coactivator recruitment and corepressor dissociation in separate experiments.

      Weaknesses:

      I did not identify any major weaknesses.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Page 2. "The endogenous ligands ... activate LXR via canonical or alternate mechanisms." What is an alternate mechanism?

      Small modifications to Fig. 1 caption identify a mechanism alternative to the canonical mechanism: LXR transcriptional complexes are RXR heterodimers that can be activated by a canonical mechanism of coregulator recruitment or an alternative de-repression mechanism

      (2) Page 5: "Notably, the 25 amino acid SRC-1 peptide is the only coactivator tested for LXR binding that has the fluorophore remote from the coactivator peptide." What does this mean, and could it influence the results?

      The sentence has been expanded to clarify the meaning. Notably, the 25 amino acid SRC-1 peptide is the only coactivator, amongst those tested for LXR binding, which has the fluorophore remote from the coactivator peptide: i.e., the only coactivator tested that uses a fluorophore labeled anti-tag antibody to bind the tagged coactivator rather than a fluorophore-labeled coactivator. In methods based on fluorescent tags (CRT, TR-FRET, fluorescence polarization, etc.), a fluorophore that interacts directly with the receptor can generate a maximal signal that differs depending on this interaction: i.e. the identity of the coregulator used in CRT can influence the response. As seen in Figures 6 and S6, maximal response is dependent on ligand and coregulator.

      (3) Page 5: "The [CRT] assay measures the EC50 for coactivator recruitment, a measure of ligand binding affinity." The dose-dependent activity in the CRT assays is more classically defined as a functional "potency", not "affinity".

      The text is changed to remove “measure of affinity”: The assay measures the ligand-dependent EC<sub>50</sub> for ligand-induced coactivator recruitment to LXR; the affinity of the ligand for the LXR:coregulator complex contributes to this potency

      (4) Page 5: "Perhaps surprisingly, considering the description of multiple LXR ligands as partial agonists, most agonists studied gave maximal response at the same level as T0, behaving as full agonists." Can the authors speculate as to why partial agonist activity is not observed in their CRT assays when it has been observed in CRT assays for other nuclear receptors?

      This section has been reworded and please note the apparent partial agonist activity observed in CRT assays for multiple coactivators as shown in Figures 6 and S6 (also see (2) above). Although many LXR ligands have been reported to display partial agonist activity, most agonists studied in this specific biotin-SRC-1 CRT assay, gave maximal response at the same level as T0, behaving as full agonists.

      (5) Page 5: "Conformational cooperativity of LBD residues beyond these two amino acids leads to different conformations of Leu274 and Ala275 that generally favor ligand binding to LXRβ." Where are these residues located? Why are they important?

      We have simplified this paragraph that introduces the interesting observations and interpretation of Ding et al. to illustrate potential contributions to isoform selectivity: The ligand binding pockets of the two LXR isoforms differ by only one amino acid located in helix-3. (H3: LXRα-Val263 and LXRβ-Ile277) Interestingly, correction of this difference by mutation of these residues to alanine (V263A and I277A) was observed to lower, but not to ablate isoform selectivity in reporter assays.[108] Supported by modeling studies, this observation by Ding et al. led to the suggestion that conformational cooperativity of LBD residues beyond these two amino acids, generally favors ligand binding to LXRβ. Therefore, most reported ligands, including those examined in the current work, are LXRβ-selective or non-selective.

      (6) Some correlation plots are described to show "poor" correlations without showing the underlying statistical fits. All correlation plots should show Pearson and Spearman correlation coefficients and p-values within the figures.

      This section of the manuscript has been completely reworked with full correlation analysis and stats . There is no substantive change in data interpretation.

      (7) The normalization of TR-FRET data could introduce undesired bias when comparing activities. The methods section should provide more details about normalization of CRT data, including stating whether the control compounds' activity data were collected on the same CRT 384-well plate on the same day, or different plates, or different days, etc.

      This is now clarified in SI materials and methods section. In-plate controls are always used.

      (8) The authors describe their pCRT assay as "multiplex", whereas "biplex" might be more accurate, as they only used two peptides.

      Biplex is commonly used referring to qPCR. Bio-Plex is a commercial version of an antibody assay. Duplex is obviously a term used in nucleic acid research. Therefore, multiplex is a simpler, more generic term that we feel is suitable and can be extended to add a third coregulator.

      (9) The pCRT assays use the same peptide concentrations (200 nM). However, the peptides will have different affinities for the LBD, which may bias ligand-dependent pCRT profiles. The peptide that binds with higher affinity in the absence of ligand will bias the LBD conformation and impact ligand affinity. Can the authors comment on any limitations of the pCRT approach vs. a normal CRT? Did the authors perform any optimization to see if increasing peptide concentrations (>200 nM) or having different concentrations (e.g., 400 nM SRC1 and 200 nM NCorR2) influences the pCRT data, extracted parameters, correlations, etc.?

      As we write in the Limitations section, our assays are focused on ligand-dependence, whereas other excellent studies focus more on coregulator-dependence. The length and affinity of peptide constructs varies and therefore it is important to “balance” corepressor and coactivator concentrations. The most important conclusions from our pCRT assays concern the ability of some ligands to stabilize corepressor binding in the monoplex CRT and the universal ability of coactivator complex stabilization to eject the corepressor in the multiplex assay. Furthermore, without measurements and correlations in “natural” cellular contexts, the CRT data obtained in cell-free conditions is somewhat artificial. We evaluated a range of peptide concentrations to assess signal-to-background and overall assay performance. Each new receptor added to the panel underwent rigorous optimization to establish robust and reliable assay conditions. This included identifying a suitable positive control for each receptor, determining the optimal coregulator selection and concentration, and refining other key parameters such as buffer composition and total well volume. The concentrations reported represent the optimized balance—producing a strong, reproducible signal without oversaturation or disproportionate contribution from any individual assay component.

      (10) Page 11. The authors introduce a few ligand classification terms that are not standard in the field and unclear: "soft" vs. "hard" antagonist, "weak" vs. "partial" agonist, and their definition of an inverse agonist that, in classical pharmacologic terms, should have an opposite (inverse) function to an agonist. Furthermore, the presence of endogenous LXR ligands within cells may confound the correlation of ligand activity of cellular assays to biochemical assay data. See the following paper for an example of ligand-dependent classification and activation mechanisms when there are endogenous cellular ligands at play: https://elifesciences.org/articles/47172

      The paragraph discussing nomenclature went through many iterations of terminology and a further paragraph was removed that discussed problems with ligand classification in the broader field of NR pharmacology: this has now been added back. We apologise for not citing the excellent Strutzenberg et al. paper on RORa pharmacology, which is now included. In this paper, Griffin and co-workers also use terms that are not standard in the field, such as “silent agonist”, which covers, in part, ligands that we describe as “weak agonists”. A standard, definitive lexicon of terms across NRs is unfortunately problematic. We have added 2 paragraphs:

      The nomenclature for NR ligands often lacks precision and differs across NR classes. SERM (a subset of selective NR modulator) is used to describe varied families of ER ligands that show tissue-selective agonist and/or antagonist actions. Unfortunately, “partial agonist” is also widely used to describe SERMs, even though its use is usually pharmacologically incorrect and biased agonist may be a more accurate label.[124] The majority of reported ER ligands are SERMs, even some that cause ER degradation, because they are transcriptionally active. Consequently, the term “pure antagonist” (PA) has been used to differentiate transcriptionally null ligands[125]; although, pure antagonist/antiestrogen was originally introduced to describe antagonism of both AF1 and AF2 functions.[90]

      Elegant work by Griffin’s team on RAR-related orphan receptor C (RORɣ) is interesting, because it used a combination of HDX-MS and CRT and defined categories of RORɣ ligands.[126] In addition to full agonist, “silent agonist” was introduced to include endogenous and synthetic partial agonists; although, by definition, partial agonists should antagonize full agonists. On the antagonist side of the spectrum, “active antagonist” was used to describe ligands that reduce cellular activity to baseline; and “inverse agonist” for ligands that reduce cellular transcription below baseline and induce recruitment of corepressors. Curiously, inverse agonist has almost never been used to describe ER ligands and is used frequently for other NR ligands, mostly for ligands that reduce transcription below baseline, without any evidence for corepressor recruitment. GSK2033 and SR9238 show inverse agonist activity in cells (Figs 3, 5); however, neither is capable of recruiting SMRT2 or NCOR2 to LXR (Fig. 7).

      (11) Figure 9A and Figure S8. Could hierarchical clustering analysis be used to more rigorously compare the activities of the ligands?

      We have now added hierarchical clustering analysis (Figs 4 S4). It should be noted that the value of such an analysis is much higher when the number of ligands is increased.

      (12) How does cellular potency correlate to pCRT vs. CRT potencies? Does pCRT better explain cellular potency?

      We have added this specific correlation (multiplex CRT vs. monoplex CRT).

      (13) The authors should provide an SI table of parameters (potency values) used for correlation and heatmap analyses.

      Tables have been added to SI accordingly.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This manuscript has many strengths, but can still be improved by addressing the following critiques:

      (1) I am surprised the team did not find a ligand with a higher efficacy than T0. Please would you explain why T0 seems to have maxed out ligand efficacy for both LXRalpha and LXRbeta?

      Several ligands gave superior efficacy to T0 in cell-based reporter assays and in CRT assays shown in Figures 6 and S6: AZ876, BE1218, and MK9 gave maximal response higher than that of T0.

      (2) In the subsection, "Activity and isoform selectivity of LXR ligands", you mentioned that "The assay measures the EC50 for coactivator recruitment, a measure of ligand binding affinity." This is incorrect. EC50 is a measure of ligand potency, not affinity.

      See Reviewer-1 (3)

      (3) In Figure 3 it is unclear what was used to normalize the antagonist responses in Panel F. Also, I recommend changing the y-axis of Panel F to -100 to 50 to get a better view of the response.

      This has been clarified: zero is vehicle control. Change to y-axis is made.

      (4) In Figure 4, the correlation R-squared values should be presented as a Table to have a better qualitative assessment of the correlations. It is challenging to judge which correlations are better by relying only on visual inspection. I also recommend moving the two panels from Figure S3 to Figure 4 as panels E and F.

      Extensive changes to Figure 4 have been made in response to this comment and that of Reviewer 1, who wanted these values in the figures: Reviewer-1 points (6) and (12).

      (5) In Figure 5, the fold changes in panels G, H, and I could better be presented as a bar graph. Also, the cytotoxicity of ligands needs to be assessed. For instance, in BE1218, there is a sharp decrease in fold change going from ~1 uM to ~10 uM. This will also confirm if the downward trends for SR9238 and GSK2033 are "real" and not as a result of cells dying off at higher ligand concentrations.

      Across our many studies on potent NR ligands, at concentrations above 3 uM, cell growth inhibition is observed. This is true for ER ligands, such as tamoxifen, with explanations in the literature including membrane disruption and low-affinity cytoplasmic binding proteins. We include cell viability measurements in Supplemental as a specific response to the reviewer’s query. There is no loss of cell viability in HepG2 cells.

      (6) Several ligands induce recruitment of coactivators but with minimal ability to displace corepressors. Physiologically, what would be the expected effect of these ligands on LXR activity?\

      We have defined such ligands from pCRT analysis as weak agonists (WA); however, pCRT shows WA ligands induce corepressor loss in the presence of coactivator. Depending on coregulator balance and isoform expression and the importance of the derepression mechanism in a specific cell context, WA ligands might be expected to be differentiated from SA (strong agonist) ligands.

      (7) In the subsection, "synchronous coregulator recruitment by multiplex, precision CRT" you mentioned that "For LXRbeta, the correlation between SRC1 recruitment in monoplex and multiplexed CRT is good," but the data is not shown. I think it would be better to show this data for transparency.

      See query (4) and Reviewer-1. Done.

      (8) In Figure 9, Panel A, the heat map is quantitated as 0-150. Is this fold change? If so, add this label to the figure legend.

      It is Normalized Response as %, which is now added.

      (9) In Figure 9, Panel B, please explain why in all cases, CoA-bound LXR resides at a higher energy level than the CoR-bound, and the apo LXR is at a lower energy level than the CoA-bound protein. A coregulator-bound (holo) protein structure is generally a lower energy (more stable) structure than the unbound (apo) protein. The binding of a coregulator stabilizes the protein's conformation and shifts the equilibrium towards a more thermodynamically favorable state. Using the same argument, it does not make sense to me that the CoR-bound LXR is on the same energy level as the apo LXR.

      This schema reflects our observations in pCRT. No signal was observed for coactivator-bound (holo) protein in the absence of ligand; whereas, a signal was observed for corepressor-bound (holo) protein in the absence of ligand. Therefore, the CoA-bound LXR is higher energy than apo-LXR (+ unbound CoA). Conversely, the signal for CoR-bound LXR can be reduced or increased by ligands, requiring the CoA-bound LXR to be of similar energy to apo-LXR (+ unbound CoR).

      (10) In the Figure 9b caption, "measured at 1uM" pertains to the concentration of ligand or coregulator? This is unclear. You should report the concentration of both ligand and coregulator.

      Clarified in caption.

      (11) In Figure S4, signal for SR9238 shoot up to ~300 units for ligand concentrations >3 uM. Please explain what could have contributed to this anomalous activation and why this was moved to the Supplementary File and not shown in the main figure (Figure 5).

      The HepG2-SRE assay is a nano-luc reporter assay, unlike the CCF-ABCA1 that is a firefly luciferase assay. There is substantial anecdotal evidence that furimazine/nano-luc is susceptible to stabilization enhancement. The RT-PCR data presented in Fig. 5 confirms that this is an artifact for some biphenyl sulfones.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study presents results supporting a model that tumorous germline stem cells (GSCs) in the Drosophila ovary mimic the stem cell niche and inhibit the differentiation of neighboring cells. The valuable findings show that GSC tumors often contain non-mutant cells whose differentiation is suppressed by the GSC tumorous cells. However, the evidence showing that the GSC tumors produce BMP ligands to suppress differentiation of non-mutant cells is incomplete due to concerns about the new HCR data.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This preprint from Shaowei Zhao and colleagues presents results that suggest tumorous germline stem cells (GSCs) in the Drosophila ovary mimic the ovarian stem cell niche and inhibit the differentiation of neighboring non-mutant GSC-like cells. The authors use FRT-mediated clonal analysis driven by a germline-specific gene (nos-Gal4, UASp-flp) to induce GSC-like cells mutant for bam or bam's co-factor bgcn. Bam-mutant or bgcn-mutant germ cells produce tumors in the stem cell compartment (the germarium) of the ovary (Fig. 1). These tumors contain non-mutant cells - termed SGC for single-germ cells. 75% of SGCs do not exhibit signs of differentiation (as assessed by bamP-GFP) (Fig. 2). The authors demonstrate that block in differentiation in SGC is a result of suppression of bam expression (Fig. 2). They present data suggesting that in 73% of SGCs BMP signaling is low (assessed by dad-lacZ) (Fig. 3) and proliferation is less in SGCs vs GSCs. They present genetic evidence that mutations in BMP pathway receptors and transcription factors suppress some of the non-autonomous effects exhibited by SGCs within bam-mutant tumors (Fig. 4). They show data that bam-mutant cells secrete Dpp, but this data is not compelling (see below) (Fig. 5). They provide genetic data that loss of BMP ligands (dpp and gbb) suppresses the appearance of SGCs in bam-mutant tumors (Fig. 6). Taken together, their data support a model in which bam-mutant GSC-like cells produce BMPs that act on non-mutant cells (i.e., SGCs) to prevent their differentiation, similar to what in seen in the ovarian stem cell niche. This preprint from Shaowei Zhao and colleagues presents results that suggest tumorous germline stem cells (GSCs) in the Drosophila ovary mimic the ovarian stem cell niche and inhibit the differentiation of neighboring non-mutant GSC-like cells. The authors use FRT-mediated clonal analysis driven by a germline-specific gene (nos-Gal4, UASp-flp) to induce GSC-like cells mutant for bam or bam's co-factor bgcn. Bam-mutant or bgcn-mutant germ cells produce tumors in the stem cell compartment (the germarium) of the ovary (Fig. 1). These tumors contain non-mutant cells - termed SGC for single-germ cells. 75% of SGCs do not exhibit signs of differentiation (as assessed by bamP-GFP) (Fig. 2). The authors demonstrate that block in differentiation in SGC is a result of suppression of bam expression (Fig. 2). They present data suggesting that in 73% of SGCs BMP signaling is low (assessed by dad-lacZ) (Fig. 3) and proliferation is less in SGCs vs GSCs. They present genetic evidence that mutations in BMP pathway receptors and transcription factors suppress some of the non-autonomous effects exhibited by SGCs within bam-mutant tumors (Fig. 4). They show data that bam-mutant cells secrete Dpp, but this data is not compelling (see below) (Fig. 5). They provide genetic data that loss of BMP ligands (dpp and gbb) suppresses the appearance of SGCs in bam-mutant tumors (Fig. 6). Taken together, their data support a model in which bam-mutant GSC-like cells produce BMPs that act on non-mutant cells (i.e., SGCs) to prevent their differentiation, similar to what in seen in the ovarian stem cell niche.

      Strengths:

      (1) Use of an excellent and established model for tumorous cells in a stem cell microenvironment

      (2) Powerful genetics allow them to test various factors in the tumorous vs non-tumorous cells

      (3) Appropriate use of quantification and statistics

      Weaknesses:

      (1) What is the frequency of SGCs in nos>flp; bam-mutant tumors? For example, are they seen in every germarium, or in some germaria, etc or in a few germaria.

      This concern was addressed in the rebuttal. The line number is 106, not line 103.

      (2) Does the breakdown in clonality vary when they induce hs-flp clones in adults as opposed to in larvae/pupae?

      This concern was addressed in the rebuttal. However, these statements are no on lines 331-335 but instead starting on line 339. Please be accurate about the line numbers cited in the rebuttal. They need to match the line numbers in the revised manuscript.

      (3) Approximately 20-25% of SGCs are bam+, dad-LacZ+. Firstly, how do the authors explain this? Secondly, of the 70-75% of SGCs that have no/low BMP signaling, the authors should perform additional characterization using markers that are expressed in GSCs (i.e., Sex lethal and nanos).

      The authors did not perform additional staining for GSC-enriched protein like Sex lethal and nanos.

      (4) All experiments except Fig. 1I (where a single germarium with no quantification) were performed with nos-Gal4, UASp-flp. Have the authors performed any of the phenotypic characterizations (i.e., figures other than figure 1) with hs-flp?

      In the rebuttal, the authors stated that they used nos>flp for all figures except for Fig. 1I. It would be more convincing for them to prove in Fig. 1 than there is not phenoytpic difference between the two methods and then switch to the nos>FLP method for the rest of the paper.

      (5) Does the number of SGCs change with the age of the female? The experiments were all performed in 14-day old adult females. What happens when they look at young female (like 2-day old). I assume that the nos>flp is working in larval and pupal stages and so the phenotype should be present in young females. Why did the authors choose this later age? For example, is the phenotype more robust in older females? or do you see more SGCs at later time points?

      The authors did not supply any data to prove that the clones were larger in 14-day-old flies than in younger flies. Additionally, the age of "younger" flies was not specified. Therefore, the authors did not satisfactorily answer my concern.

      (6) Can the authors distinguish one copy of GFP versus 2 copies of GFP in germ cells of the ovary? This is not possible in the Drosophila testis. I ask because this could impact on the clonal analyses diagrammed in Fig. 4A and 4G and in 6A and B. Additionally, in most of the figures, the GFP is saturated so it is not possible to discern one vs two copies of GFP.

      In the rebuttal, the authors stated that they cannot differential one vs two copies of GFP. They used other clone labeling methods in Fig. 4 and 6. I think that the authors should make a statement in the manuscript that they cannot distinguish one vs two copies of GFP for the record.

      (7) More evidence is needed to support the claim of elevated Dpp levels in bam or bgcn mutant tumors. The current results with dpp-lacZ enhancer trap in Fig 5A,B are not convincing. First, why is the dpp-lacZ so much brighter in the mosaic analysis (A) than in the no-clone analysis (B); it is expected that the level of dpp-lacZ in cap cells should be invariant between ovaries and yet LacZ is very faint in Fig. 5B. I think that if the settings in A matched those in B, the apparent expression of dpp-lacZ in the tumor would be much lower and likely not statistically significantly. Second, they should use RNA in situ hybridization with a sensitive technique like hybridization chain reactions (HCR) - an approach that has worked well in numerous Drosophila tissues including the ovary.

      The HCR FISH in Fig.5 of the revised manuscript needs an explanation for how the mRNA puncta were quantified. Currently, there is no information in the methods. What is meant but relative dpp levels. I think that the authors should report in and unbiased manner "number" of dpp or gbb puncta in TFs. For the germaria, I think that they should report the number of puncta of dpp or gbb divide by the total area in square pixels counted. Additionally, the background fluorescence is noticeably much higher in bamBG/delta86 germaria, which would (falsely) increase the relative intensity of dpp and gbb in bam mutants. Although, I commend the authors for performing HCR FISH, these data are still not convincing to me.

      (8) In Fig 6, the authors report results obtained with the bamBG allele. Do they obtain similar data with another bam allele (i.e., bamdelta86)?

      The authors did not try any experiments with the bamdelta86 allele, despite this allele being molecularly defined, where the bamBG allele is not defined.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In the current version, Zhang et al. have made substantial improvements to the manuscript. It is now easier to read, and the data are more solid compared with the previous version, supporting their conclusion that tumor GSCs secrete stemness factors (BMPs and Dpp) to suppress the differentiation of neighboring wild-type GSCs. This study should benefit a broad readership across developmental biology, germ cell biology, stem cell biology, and cancer biology.

      However, the following suggestions may further improve the clarity and rigor of the research content:

      (1) Clarification of sample size (n).<br /> Each germarium can contain highly variable numbers of SGCs, sometimes reaching 50-100. When reporting "n" values, the authors are encouraged to also indicate the number of germaria analyzed. For example, in lines 126-128:<br /> "Notably, 74% of SGCs (n = 132) were GFP-negative, while the remaining 26% were GFP-positive (Figure 2B, C). This suggests that SGCs can be categorized into two distinct groups: those resembling GSCs (GSC-like) and those resembling cystoblasts (cystoblast-like)."<br /> Please clarify how many germaria were examined to obtain n = 132. In addition, it is unclear whether the authors intend to suggest that the GFP-negative SGCs are GSC-like or cystoblast-like; this point should be clarified.

      (2) Improvement of Fig. 6 in situ hybridization images.<br /> The in situ hybridization images in Fig. 6 are not fully convincing. The control images, in particular, would benefit from higher resolution and enlarged views of the germarium region. In panel C, abundant signals are also present outside the germarium, which may complicate interpretation and should be clarified or controlled for.

      Alternatively, the authors could strengthen the in situ analysis by using bam mutants or bam dpp / bam gbb double mutants as controls to better define signal specificity.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Zhang et al. investigated how germline tumors influence the development of neighboring wild-type (WT) germline stem cells (GSC) in the Drosophila ovary. They report that germline tumors generated by differentiation-arrested mutations (bam and bgcn) inhibit the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs by arresting them in an undifferentiated state, resulting from reduced expression of the differentiation-promoting factor Bam. They find that these tumor cells produce low levels of the niche-associated signaling molecules Dpp and Gbb, which suppress bam expression and consequently inhibit the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs non-cell-autonomously. Based on these findings, the authors propose that germline tumors mimic the niche to suppress the differentiation of the neighboring wild-type germline stem cells.

      Strengths:

      The study uses a well-established in vivo model to address an important biological question concerning the interaction between germline tumor cells and wild-type (WT) germline stem cells in the Drosophila ovary. If the findings are substantiated, this study could provide valuable insights that are applicable to other stem cell systems.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors have addressed some of my concerns in the revised submission. However, the data presented do not allow the authors to distinguish whether the failed differentiation of WT stem cells/germline cells results from "arrested differentiation due to the loss of the differentiation niche" or from "direct inhibition by tumor-derived expression of niche-associated molecules Dpp and Gbb". The critical supporting data, HCR in situ results, are not sufficiently convincing.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This study presents results supporting a model that tumorous germline stem cells (GSCs) in the Drosophila ovary mimic the stem cell niche and inhibit the differentiation of neighboring cells. The valuable findings show that GSC tumors often contain non-mutant cells whose differentiation is suppressed by the GSC tumorous cells. However, the evidence showing that the GSC tumors produce BMP ligands to suppress differentiation of non-mutant cells is incomplete. It could be strengthened by the use of sensitive RNA in situ hybridization approaches.

      Thank you for your valuable assessment. RNA in situ hybridization evidence has been added to the revised manuscript (Figure 5A-D) to support that GSC tumors produce BMP ligands.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This preprint from Shaowei Zhao and colleagues presents results that suggest tumorous germline stem cells (GSCs) in the Drosophila ovary mimic the ovarian stem cell niche and inhibit the differentiation of neighboring non-mutant GSC-like cells. The authors use FRT-mediated clonal analysis driven by a germline-specific gene (nos-Gal4, UASp-flp) to induce GSC-like cells mutant for bam or bam's co-factor bgcn. Bam-mutant or bgcn-mutant germ cells produce tumors in the stem cell compartment (the germarium) of the ovary (Figure 1). These tumors contain non-mutant cells - termed SGC for single-germ cells. 75% of SGCs do not exhibit signs of differentiation (as assessed by bamP-GFP) (Figure 2). The authors demonstrate that block in differentiation in SGC is a result of suppression of bam expression (Figure 2). They present data suggesting that in 73% of SGCs, BMP signaling is low (assessed by dad-lacZ) (Figure 3) and proliferation is less in SGCs vs GSCs. They present genetic evidence that mutations in BMP pathway receptors and transcription factors suppress some of the non-autonomous effects exhibited by SGCs within bam-mutant tumors (Figure 4). They show data that bam-mutant cells secrete Dpp, but this data is not compelling (see below) (Figure 5). They provide genetic data that loss of BMP ligands (dpp and gbb) suppresses the appearance of SGCs in bam-mutant tumors (Figure 6). Taken together, their data support a model in which bam-mutant GSC-like cells produce BMPs that act on non-mutant cells (i.e., SGCs) to prevent their differentiation, similar to what is seen in the ovarian stem cell niche.

      Strengths:

      (1) Use of an excellent and established model for tumorous cells in a stem cell microenvironment.

      (2) Powerful genetics allow them to test various factors in the tumorous vs non-tumorous cells.

      (3) Appropriate use of quantification and statistics.

      We greatly appreciate your valuable comments.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) What is the frequency of SGCs in nos>flp; bam-mutant tumors? For example, are they seen in every germarium, or in some germaria, etc, or in a few germaria?

      This is a good question. Because the SGC phenotype depends on the presence of both germline tumor clones and out-of-niche wild-type germ cells, our quantification was restricted to germaria containing both. In 14-day-old fly ovaries, 70% of germaria (432/618) met this criterion (Line 103). Each of them contained an average of 1.5 SGCs (Figure 1K).

      (2) Does the breakdown in clonality vary when they induce hs-flp clones in adults as opposed to in larvae/pupae?

      Our attempts to induce ovarian hs-FLP germline clones by heat-shocking adult flies were unsuccessful, with very few clones being observed. Therefore, we shifted our approach to an earlier developmental stage. Successful induction was achieved by subjecting late-L3/early-pupal animals to a twice-daily heatshock at 37°C for 6 consecutive days (2 hours per session with a 6-hour interval, see Lines 331-335) (Zhao et al., 2018).

      (3) Approximately 20-25% of SGCs are bam+, dad-LacZ+. Firstly, how do the authors explain this? Secondly, of the 70-75% of SGCs that have no/low BMP signaling, the authors should perform additional character rization using markers that are expressed in GSCs (i.e., Sex lethal and nanos).

      These 20-25% of SGCs are bamP-GFP<sup>+</sup> dad-lacZ<sup>-</sup>, not bam<sup>+</sup> dad-lacZ<sup>+</sup> (see Figure 2C and 3D). They would be cystoblast-like cells that may have initiated a differentiation program toward forming germline cysts (see Lines 122-130). The 70-75% of SGCs that have low BMP signaling exhibit GSC-like properties, including: 1) dot-like spectrosomes; 2) dad-lacZ positivity; 3) absence of bamP-GFP expression. While additional markers would be beneficial, we think that this combination of properties is sufficient to classify these cells as GSC-like.

      (4) All experiments except Figure 1I (where a single germarium with no quantification) were performed with nos-Gal4, UASp-flp. Have the authors performed any of the phenotypic characterizations (i.e., figures other than Figure 1) with hs-flp?

      Yes, we initially identified the SGC phenotype through hs-FLP-mediated mosaic analysis of bam or bgcn mutant in ovaries. However, as noted in our response to Weakness (2), this approach was very labor-intensive. Therefore, we switched to using the more convenient nos>FLP system for subsequent experiments. To our observation, there was no difference in inducing the SGC phenotype by these two approaches.

      (5) Does the number of SGCs change with the age of the female? The experiments were all performed in 14-day-old adult females. What happens when they look at a young female (like 2-day-old). I assume that the nos>flp is working in larval and pupal stages, and so the phenotype should be present in young females. Why did the authors choose this later age? For example, is the phenotype more robust in older females? Or do you see more SGCs at later time points?

      These are very good questions. The SGC phenotype was consistent over the 14-day analysis period (Figure 1J) and was specifically dependent on the presence of germline tumor clones. In 14-day-old fly ovaries, these clones were both larger and more frequent than in younger flies. This age-dependent enhancement in clone size and frequency significantly improved our quantification efficiency (see Lines 101-112).

      (6) Can the authors distinguish one copy of GFP versus 2 copies of GFP in germ cells of the ovary? This is not possible in the Drosophila testis. I ask because this could impact the clonal analyses diagrammed in Figure 4A and 4G and in 6A and B. Additionally, in most of the figures, the GFP is saturated, so it is not possible to discern one vs two copies of GFP.

      Thank you for this valuable comment. It was also difficult for us to distinguish 1 and 2 copies of GFP in the Drosophila ovary. In Figure 4A-F, to resolve this problem, we used a triple-color system, in which red germ cells (RFP<sup>+/+</sup> GFP<sup>-/-</sup>) are bam mutant, yellow germ cells (RFP<sup>+/-</sup> GFP<sup>+/-</sup>) are wild-type, and green germ cells (RFP<sup>-/-</sup> GFP<sup>+/+</sup>) are punt or med mutant. In Figure 4G-J, we quantified the SGC phenotype only in black germ cells (GFP<sup>-/-</sup>), which are wild-type (control) or mad mutant. In Figure 6, we quantified the SGC phenotype only in green germ cells (both GFP<sup>+/+</sup> and GFP<sup>+/-</sup>), all of which are wild-type.

      (7) More evidence is needed to support the claim of elevated Dpp levels in bam or bgcn mutant tumors. The current results with the dpp-lacZ enhancer trap in Figure 5A, B are not convincing. First, why is the dpp-lacZ so much brighter in the mosaic analysis (A) than in the no-clone analysis (B)? It is expected that the level of dpp-lacZ in cap cells should be invariant between ovaries, and yet LacZ is very faint in Figure 5B. I think that if the settings in A matched those in B, the apparent expression of dpp-lacZ in the tumor would be much lower and likely not statistically significant. Second, they should use RNA in situ hybridization with a sensitive technique like hybridization chain reactions (HCR) - an approach that has worked well in numerous Drosophila tissues, including the ovary.

      Thank you for this critical comment. The settings of immunofluorescent staining and confocal parameters in the original Figure 5A were the same as those in 5B. To our observation, the levels of dpp-lacZ in terminal filament and cap cells were highly variable across germaria, even within the same ovary. We have omitted these results from the revised Figure 5. Instead, the HCR-FISH data have been added (Figure 5A-D) to support that bam mutant germline tumors secret BMP ligands.

      (8) In Figure 6, the authors report results obtained with the bamBG allele. Do they obtain similar data with another bam allele (i.e., bamdelta86)?

      No. Given that bam<sup>BG</sup> was functionally indistinguishable from bam<sup>Δ86</sup> in inducing the SGC phenotype (Figure 1J), we believe that repeating these experiments with bam<sup>Δ86</sup> would be redundant and would not alter the key conclusion of our study. Thank you for your understanding!

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      While the study by Zhang et al. provides valuable insights into how germline tumors can non-autonomously suppress the differentiation of neighboring wild-type germline stem cells (GSCs), several conceptual and technical issues limit the strength of the conclusions.

      Major points:

      (1) Naming of SGCs is confusing. In line 68, the authors state that "many wild-type germ cells located outside the niche retained a GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) morphology." However, bam or bgcn mutant GSCs are also referred to as "SGCs," which creates confusion when reading the text and interpreting the figures. The authors should clarify the terminology used to distinguish between wild-type SGCs and tumor (bam/bgcn mutant) SGCs, and apply consistent naming throughout the manuscript and figure legends.

      We apologize for any confusion. In our manuscript, the term "SGC" is reserved specifically for wild-type germ cells that maintain a GSC-like morphology outside the niche. bam or bgcn mutant germ cells are referred to as GSC-like tumor cells (Lines 89-90), not SGCs.

      (a) The same confusion appears in Figure 2. It is unclear whether the analyzed SGCs are wild-type or bam mutant cells. If the SGCs analyzed are Bam mutants, then the lack of Bam expression and failure to differentiate would be expected and not informative. However, if the SGCs are wild-type GSCs located outside the niche, then the observation would suggest that Bam expression is silenced in these wild-type cells, which is a significant finding. The authors should clarify the genotype of the SGCs analyzed in Figure 2C, as this information is not currently provided.

      The SGCs analyzed in Figure 2A-C are wild-type, GSC-like cells located outside the niche. They were generated using the same genetic strategy depicted in Figures 1C and 1E (with the schematic in Figure 1B). The complete genotypes for all experiments are available in Source data 1.

      (b) In Figures 4B and 4E, the analysis of SGC composition is confusing. In the control germaria (bam mutant mosaic), the authors label GFP⁺ SGCs as "wild-type," which makes interpretation unclear. Note, this is completely different from their earlier definition shown in line 68.

      The strategy to generate SGCs in Figure 4B-F (with the schematic in Figure 4A) is different from that in Figure 1C-F, H, and I (with the schematic in Figure 1B). In Figure 4B-F, we needed to distinguish punt<sup>-/-</sup> (or med<sup>-/-</sup>) with punt<sup>+/-</sup> (or med<sup>+/-</sup>) germ cells. As noted in our response to Reviewer #1’s Weakness (6), it was difficult for us to distinguish 1 and 2 copies of GFP in the Drosophila ovary. Therefore, we chose to use the triple-color system to distinguish these germ cells in Figure 4B-F (see genotypes in Source data 1).

      (c) Additionally, bam<sup>+/-</sup> GSCs (the first bar in Figure 4E) should appear GFP<sup>+</sup> and Red>sup>+</sup> (i.e., yellow). It would be helpful if the authors could indicate these bam<sup>+/-</sup> germ cells directly in the image and clarify the corresponding color representation in the main text. In Figure 2A, although a color code is shown, the legend does not explain it clearly, nor does it specify the identity of bam<sup>+/-</sup> cells alone. Figure 4F has the same issue, and in this graph, the color does not match Figure 4A.

      The color-to-genotype relationships for the schematics in Figures 2A and 4E are provided in Figures 1B and 4A, respectively. Due to the high density of germ cells, it is impractical to label each genotype directly in the images. In contrast to Figure 4E, the colors in Figure 4F do not represent genotypes; instead, blue denotes the percentage of SGCs, and red denotes the percentage of germline cysts, as indicated below the bar chart.

      (2) The frequencies of bam or bgcn mutant mosaic germaria carrying [wild-type] SGCs or wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes, as well as the average number of wild-type SGCs per germarium and the number of days after heat shock for the representative images, are not provided when Figure 1 is first introduced. Since this is the first time the authors describe these phenotypes, including these details is essential. Without this information, it is difficult for readers to follow and evaluate the presented observations.

      Thank you for this constructive suggestion. These quantification data have been added to the revised Figure 1 (Figure 1J, K).

      (3) Without the information mentioned in point 2, it causes problems when reading through the section regarding [wild-type] SGCs induced by impairment of differentiation or dedifferentiation. In lines 90-97, the authors use the presence of midbodies between cystocytes as a criterion to determine whether the wild-type GSCs surrounded by tumor GSCs arise through dedifferentiation. However, the cited study (Mathieu et al., 2022) reports that midbodies can be detected between two germ cells within a cyst carrying a branched fusome upon USP8 loss.

      Unlike wild-type cystocytes, which undergo incomplete cytokinesis and lack midbodies, those with USP8 loss undergo complete cell division, with the presence of midbodies (white arrow, Figure 1F’ from Mathieu et al., 2022) as a marker of the late cytokinesis stage (Mathieu et al., 2022).

      (a) Are wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes present in the bam mutant mosaic germaria? What is the proportion of germaria containing wild-type SGCs versus those containing wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes?

      (b) If all bam mutant mosaic germaria carry only wild-type GSCs outside the niche and no germaria contain wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes, then examining midbodies as an indicator of dedifferentiation may not be appropriate.

      We appreciate your critical comment. bam mutant mosaic germaria indeed contained wild-type germline cysts, as evidenced by an SGC frequency of ~70%, rather than 100% (see Figures 2H, 4F, 4J, 6F, 6I, and Figure 6-figure supplement 3C). Since the SGC phenotype depends on the presence of bam or bgcn mutant germline tumors, we quantified it as “the percentage of SGCs relative to the total number of SGCs and germline cysts that are surrounded by germline tumors” (see Lines 103-108). Quantifying the SGC phenotype as "the percentage of germaria with SGCs" would be imprecise. This is because the presence and number of SGCs were variable among germaria with bam or bgcn mutant germline clones, and a small number of germaria entirely lacked these clones. The data of "SGCs per germarium with both germline clones and out-of-niche wild-type germ cells" have been added to the revised Figure 1 (Figure 1K).

      (c) If, however, some germaria do contain wild-type germ cell cysts with branched fusomes, the authors should provide representative images and quantify their proportion.

      Such germaria could be found in Figure 2G, 3B, 3C, 6D, 6E, and 6H. The percentage of germline cysts can be calculated by “100% - SGC%”.

      (d) In line 95, although the authors state that 50 germ cell cysts were analyzed for the presence of midbodies, it would be more informative to specify how many germaria these cysts were derived from and how many biological replicates were examined.

      As noted in our response to points a) and b) above, the germ cells surrounded by germline tumors, rather than germarial numbers, are more precise for analyzing the phenotype. For this experiment, we examined >50 such germline cysts via confocal microscopy. As the analysis was performed on a defined cellular population, this sample size should be sufficient to support our conclusion.

      (4) Note that both bam mutant GSCs and wild-type SGCs can undergo division to generate midbodies (double cells), as shown in Figure 4H. Therefore, the current description of the midbody analysis is confusing. The authors should clarify which cell types were examined and explain how midbodies were interpreted in distinguishing between cell division and differentiation.

      We assayed for the presence of midbodies or not specifically within the wild-type germline cysts surrounded by bam or bgcn mutant tumors, not within the tumors themselves (Lines 96-97). As detailed in Lines 90-100, the absence of midbodies was used as a key criterion to exclude the possibility of dedifferentiation.

      (5) The data in Figure 5 showing Dpp expression in bam mutant tumorous GSCs are not convincing. The Dpp-lacZ signal appears broadly distributed throughout the germarium, including in escort cells. To support the claim more clearly, the authors should present corresponding images for Figures 5D and 5E, in which dpp expression was knocked down in the germ cells of bam or bgcn mutant mosaic germaria. Showing these images would help clarify the localization and specificity of Dpp-lacZ expression relative to the tumorous GSCs.

      Thank you for your constructive comment. RNA in situ hybridization data have been added to support that bam or bgcn mutant germline tumors secret BMP ligands (Figure 5A-D).

      (6) While Figure 6 provides genetic evidence that bam mutant tumorous GSCs produce Dpp to inhibit the differentiation of wild-type SGCs, it should be noted that these analyses were performed in a dpp⁺/⁻ background. To strengthen the conclusion, the authors should include appropriate controls showing [dpp<sup>+/-</sup>; bam<sup>+/-</sup>] SGCs and [dpp<sup>+/-</sup>; bam<sup>+/-</sup>] germ cell cysts without heat shock (as referenced in Figures 6F and 6I).

      Schematic cartoons in Figure 6A and 6B demonstrate that these analyses were performed in a dpp<sup>+/-</sup> background. Figure 6-figure supplement 1 indicates tha dpp<sup>+/-</sup> or gbb<sup>+/-</sup> does not affect GSC maintenance, germ cell differentiation, and female fly fertility. Figure 6C is the control for 6D and 6E, and 6G is the control for 6H, with quantification in 6F and 6I. We used nos>FLP, not the heat shock method, to induce germline clones in these experiments (see genotypes in Source data 1).

      (7) Previous studies have reported that bam mutant germ cells cause blunted escort cell protrusions (e.g., Kirilly et al., Development, 2011), which are known to contribute to germ cell differentiation (e.g., Chen et al., Frontiers in Cell and Developmental Biology, 2022). The authors should include these findings in the Discussion to provide a broader context and to acknowledge how alterations in escort cell morphology may further influence differentiation defects in their model.

      Thank you for teaching us! We have included the introduction of these two papers in the revised manuscript (Lines 197-199).

      (8) Since fusome morphology is an important readout of SGCs vs differentiation. All the clonal analysis should have fusome staining.

      SGC is readily distinguishable from multi-cellular germline cyst based on morphology. In some clonal-analysis experiments, fusome staining was not feasible due to technical limitations such as channel saturation or antibody incompatibility. Thank you for your understanding!

      (9) Figure arrangement. It is somewhat difficult to identify the figure panels cited in the text due to the current panel arrangement.

      The figure panels were arranged to optimize space while ensuring that related panels are grouped in close proximity for logical comparison. We would be happy to consider any specific suggestions for an alternative layout that could improve clarity.

      (10) The number of biological replicates and germaria analyzed should be clearly stated somewhere in the manuscript-ideally in the Methods section or figure legends. Providing this information is essential for assessing data reliability and reproducibility.

      The detailed quantification information is labeled directly in figures or described in figure legends, and all raw quantification data are provided in Source data 2.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Zhang et al. investigated how germline tumors influence the development of neighboring wild-type (WT) germline stem cells (GSC) in the Drosophila ovary. They report that germline tumors inhibit the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs by arresting them in an undifferentiated state, resulting from reduced expression of the differentiation-promoting factor Bam. They find that these tumor cells produce low levels of the niche-associated signaling molecules Dpp and Gbb, which suppress bam expression and consequently inhibit the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs non-cell-autonomously. Based on these findings, the authors propose that germline tumors mimic the niche to suppress the differentiation of the neighboring stem cells.

      Strengths:

      This study addresses an important biological question concerning the interaction between germline tumor cells and WT germline stem cells in the Drosophila ovary. If the findings are substantiated, they could provide valuable insights applicable to other stem cell systems.

      We greatly appreciate your valuable comments.

      Weaknesses:

      Previous work from Xie's lab demonstrated that bam and bgcn mutant GSCs can outcompete WT GSCs for niche occupancy. Furthermore, a large body of literature has established that the interactions between escort cells (ECs) and GSC daughters are essential for proper and timely germline differentiation (the differentiation niche). Disruption of these interactions leads to arrest of germline cell differentiation in a status with weak BMP signaling activation and low bam expression, a phenotype virtually identical to what is reported here. Thus, it remains unclear whether the observed phenotype reflects "direct inhibition by tumor cells" or "arrested differentiation due to the loss of the differentiation niche." Because most data were collected at a very late stage (more than 10 days after clonal induction), when tumor cells already dominate the germarium, this question cannot be solved. To distinguish between these two possibilities, the authors could conduct a time-course analysis to examine the onset of the WT GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) phenotype and determine whether early-stage tumor clones with a few tumor cells can suppress the differentiation of neighboring WT GSCs with only a few tumor cells present. If tumor cells indeed produce Dpp and Gbb (as proposed here) to inhibit the differentiation of neighboring germline cells, a small cluster or probably even a single tumor cell generated at an early stage might prevent the differentiation of their neighboring germ cells.

      Thank you for your critical comment. The revised manuscript now includes a time-course analysis of the SGC phenotype (Figure 1J). Our data in Figure 6 demonstrate that BMP ligands from germline tumors are required to inhibit SGC differentiation. Furthermore, we have incorporated into the manuscript the possibility that disruption of the differentiation niche may also contribute to the SGC phenotype (Lines 197-199).

      The key evidence supporting the claim that tumor cells produce Gpp and Gbb comes from Figures 5 and 6, which suggest that tumor-derived dpp and gbb are required for this inhibition. However, interpretation of these data requires caution. In Figure 5, the authors use dpp-lacZ to support the claim that dpp is upregulated in tumor cells (Figure 5A and 5B). However, the background expression in somatic cells (ECs and pre-follicular cells) differs noticeably between these panels. In Figure 5A, dpp-lacZ expression in somatic cells in 5A is clearly higher than in 5B, and the expression level in tumor cells appears comparable to that in somatic cells (dpp-lacZ single channel). Similarly, in Figure 5B, dpp-lacZ expression in germline cells is also comparable to that in somatic cells. Providing clear evidence of upregulated dpp and gbb expression in tumor cells (for example, through single-molecular RNA in situ) would be essential.

      We greatly appreciate your critical comment. In our data, the expression levels of dpp-lacZ in terminal filament and cap cells were highly variable across germaria, even within the same ovary. We have omitted these results in the revised Figure 5. RNA in situ hybridization data have been added to visualize the expression of BMP ligands within bam mutant germline tumor cells (Figure 5A-D).

      Most tumor data present in this study were collected from the bam[86] null allele, whereas the data in Figure 6 were derived from a weaker bam[BG] allele. This bam[BG] allele is not molecularly defined and shows some genetic interaction with dpp mutants. As shown in Figure 6E, removal of dpp from homozygous bam[BG] mutant leads to germline differentiation (evidenced by a branched fusome connecting several cystocytes, located at the right side of the white arrowhead). In Figure 6D, fusome is likely present in some GFP-negative bam[BG]/bam[BG] cells. To strengthen their claim that the tumor produces Dpp and Gbb to inhibit WT germline cell differentiation, the authors should repeat these experiments using the bam[86] null allele.

      Although a structure resembling a "branched fusome" is visible in Figure 6E (right of the white arrowhead), it is an artifact resulting from the cytoplasm of GFP-positive follicle cells, which also stain for α-Spectrin, projecting between germ cells of different clones (see the merged image). In both our previous (Zhang et al., 2023) and current studies, bam<sup>BG</sup> was functionally indistinguishable from bam<sup>Δ86</sup> in its ability to block GSC differentiation and induce the SGC phenotype (Figure 1J). Given this, we believe that repeating the extensive experiments in Figure 6 with the bam<sup>Δ86</sup> allele would be scientifically redundant and would not change the key conclusion of our study.

      It is well established that the stem niche provides multiple functional supports for maintaining resident stem cells, including physical anchorage and signaling regulation. In Drosophila, several signaling molecules produced by the niche have been identified, each with a distinct function - some promoting stemness, while others regulate differentiation. Expression of Dpp and Gbb alone does not substantiate the claim that these tumor cells have acquired the niche-like property. To support their assertion that these tumors mimic the niche, the authors should provide additional evidence showing that these tumor cells also express other niche-associated markers. Alternatively, they could revise the manuscript title to more accurately reflect their findings.

      Dpp and Gbb are the key niche signals from cap cells for maintaining GSC stemness. Our work demonstrates that germline tumors can specifically mimic this signaling function, not the full suite of cap cell properties, to create a non-cell-autonomous differentiation block. The current title “Tumors mimic the niche to inhibit neighboring stem cell differentiation” reflects this precise concept: a partial, functional mimicry of the niche's most relevant activity in this context. We feel it is an appropriate and compelling summary of our main conclusion.

      In the Method section, the authors need to provide details on how dpp-lacZ expression levels were quantified and normalized.

      Because of the highly variable expression levels in terminal filament and cap cells, we have omitted the dpp-lacZ results in the revised manuscript.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor points

      (1) Not all readers may be familiar with the nos>FLP/FRT or hs-FLP/FRT systems. It would be helpful if the authors could briefly introduce these genetic mosaic systems and explain how they were used in this study before presenting the results.

      Thank you for this constructive suggestion. Such brief introduction has been added to the revised manuscript (Lines 64-70).

      (2) Line 68-70: "Surprisingly, ...outside the niche retained a GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) morphology, even when encapsulated within egg chambers (Figure 1C, D, Figure 1- figure supplement 1).

      (3) The figure citation is not appropriate, as Figures 1C and 1D do not show "single germ cells (SGCs) encapsulated within egg chambers." To improve clarity, the authors could revise the sentence as follows: "Surprisingly, wild-type germ cells located outside the niche retained a GSC-like single-germ-cell (SGC) morphology (Figures 1C and D), even when encapsulated within egg chambers (Figure 1-figure supplement 1)." This modification would make the description consistent with the figure content and easier for readers to follow.

      Thank you for teaching us! The manuscript has been revised following this suggestion (Lines 70-73).

      (4) Line 106-110. The description is confusing. The authors state, "Under normal conditions... Notably, 74% of SGCs (n = 132) were GFP-negative, while the remaining 26% were GFP-positive (Figure 2B, C). However, Figure 2B shows the bam mutant mosaic germaria, and Figure 2C does not specify the genotypes of the germaria used for the analysis of GSCs, CBs, and SGCs. The authors should clarify the experimental conditions and genotypes corresponding to each panel. In addition, it would be more informative to indicate how many germaria these quantified GSCs, CBs, and SGCs were derived from.

      (5) Throughout the manuscript, the authors report the number of SGCs analyzed (e.g., Lines 149-151). However, it would be more informative to also indicate how many germaria these quantified SGCs were derived from. Providing this information would help readers assess the sampling size and variability across biological replicates.

      Thank you for your suggestion. As shown in Figure 2B, these wild-type (RFP-positive) GSCs and CBs were also derived from bam mutant mosaic germaria. The phrase "under normal conditions" has been deleted from the revised manuscript to prevent any potential ambiguity. Given the specificity of the SGC phenotype, the germ cells surrounded by germline tumors, rather than germarial numbers, are more precise for its quantification (Lines 103-108). The data of “SGCs per germarium with both germline clones and out-of-niche wild-type germ cells” have been added to the revised Figure 1K.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Additionally, the authors should clarify what the "red dot" signal in the GFP-positive cap cell in Figure 3 F (left panel) represents.

      The “red dot” is an asterisk that is used to mark a cap cell (Line 620).

      (2) Finally, on line 266, "bamP-GFP-positive" should be corrected to "bamP-GFP-negative."

      It should be “bamP-GFP-positive”, not “bamP-GFP-negative” (see Figure 2B).

      Reference:

      Mathieu, J., Michel-Hissier, P., Boucherit, V., and Huynh, J.R. (2022). The deubiquitinase USP8 targets ESCRT-III to promote incomplete cell division. Science 376, 818-823.

      Zhang, Q., Zhang, Y., Zhang, Q., Li, L., and Zhao, S. (2023). Division promotes adult stem cells to perform active niche competition. Genetics 224.

      Zhao, S., Fortier, T.M., and Baehrecke, E.H. (2018). Autophagy Promotes Tumor-like Stem Cell Niche Occupancy. Curr Biol 28, 3056-3064.e3053.

    1. eLife Assessment

      The manuscript concerns a fundamental and controversial question in Trypanosoma brucei biology and the parasite life cycle, providing further evidence that slender bloodstream forms can indeed infect Tsetse flies. The study is solid in design and execution, and addresses several criticisms made of the authors' earlier work. Nevertheless, some of the main conclusions are only partially supported: one issue is how, precisely, a "slender" bloodstream form is defined, and discrepancies with some results from other laboratories remain unexplained.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper is an exciting follow-up to two recent publications in eLife: one from the same lab, reporting that slender forms can successfully infect tsetse flies (Schuster, S et al., 2021), and another independent study claiming the opposite (Ngoune, TMJ et al., 2025). Here, the authors address four criticisms raised against their original work: the influence of N-acetyl-glucosamine (NAG), the use of teneral and male flies, and whether slender forms bypass the stumpy stage before becoming procyclic forms.

      Strengths:

      We applaud the authors' efforts in undertaking these experiments and contributing to a better understanding of the T. brucei life cycle. The paper is well-written and the figures are clear.

      Comments on revisions:

      We thank the authors for the revised manuscript and for considering our comments.

      We outline below the 3 points that, in our opinion, remain to be clarified.

      (1) Effect of NAG on slender-form infections in tsetse flies<br /> The conclusion that "NAG has a negligible effect on slender infections in tsetse flies" based on Figure 1, cannot be fully supported in the absence of a positive control. A relevant positive control is well established in the literature, namely that NAG promotes Tsetse infection by stumpy forms. Without such a control, it is not possible to exclude technical issues (for example, an ineffective NAG treatment), which would yield results similar to those presented in Figure 1.

      (2) Infection of non-teneral flies<br /> Because the experiments shown in Figure 1 (teneral flies) and Figure 2 (non-teneral flies) were not conducted in parallel or under identical conditions, it is important that the figure legends clearly state the parasite numbers used in each case. Specifically, infections of teneral flies were performed with 200 parasites/mL (approximately 4 parasites per bloodmeal), whereas non-teneral infections used 1 × 10⁶ parasites/mL (approximately 20,000 parasites per bloodmeal?). At present, this information is scattered across the Methods and Supplementary Tables 1 and 2, making it difficult for readers to immediately appreciate that the parasite load differs by roughly 5,000-fold between these conditions.

      As previously shown by the authors (Schuster et al., 2021) and in the Rotureau laboratory (Tsagmo Ngoune et al.), and as generally expected, the initial parasite dose strongly influences infection outcomes in teneral flies. In this context, it would be informative to know whether the authors have attempted infections of non-teneral flies using lower parasite numbers (noting that Tsagmo Ngoune et al. used a maximum of 10,000 parasites) and what the infection rate was.<br /> Relatedly, the statement in line 370 appears to be an overgeneralization, as fly age was not directly tested under matched experimental conditions:

      Line 370 - "Here, we unambiguously show that, in the absence of immunosuppressive treatment, slender forms can establish infections in tsetse flies, irrespective of the fly's age or sex."

      (3) Transcriptomic analysis<br /> Supplementary Figure 8 lacks statistical analysis, which limits its interpretability. Two types of comparisons would be particularly helpful:<br /> (i) a comparison of PAD1/2 expression levels between slender and stumpy forms at 0 h; and<br /> (ii) for each gene, a comparison of the overall change in expression (from 0 to 72 h) between infections initiated with slender versus stumpy forms.<br /> In addition, the figure legend should clarify what "expression levels" refer to. TPM? Normalized counts?

      Finally, for the benefit of the field, eLife could encourage publishing a collaborative study in which the Engstler and Rotureau laboratories exchange parasite lines and culture protocols (including media with and without methylcellulose) and perform tsetse fly infections in parallel in their respective laboratories. Such an approach could help resolve the remaining discrepancies and provide a valuable reference for the community.

    3. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work provides evidence that slender T. brucei can initiate and complete cyclical development in Glossina morsitans without GlcNAc supplementation, in both sexes, and importantly in non-teneral flies, including salivary-gland infections.

      Comparative transcriptomics show early divergence between slender- and stumpy-initiated differentiation (distinct GO enrichments), with convergence by ~72 h, supporting an alternative pathway into the procyclic differentiation program.

      The work addresses key methodological criticisms of earlier studies and supports the hypothesis that slender forms may contribute to transmission at low parasitaemia.

      Strengths:

      (1) Directly tackles prior concerns (no GlcNAc, both sexes, non-teneral flies) with positive infections through to the salivary glands.

      (2) Transcriptomic time course adds some mechanistic depth.

      (3) Clear relevance to the "transmission paradox"; advances an important debate in the field.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Discrepancy with Ngoune et al. (2025) remains unresolved; no head-to-head control for colony/blood source or microbiome differences that could influence vector competence.

      We acknowledge that a direct head-to-head comparison was not performed and that microbiome composition can affect vector competence. However, both the tsetse flies used in Ngoune et al. (2025) and those in our study originated from the same colony and were maintained under comparable standard laboratory conditions. In both cases, flies were fed on sheep blood through identical silicon membrane systems, minimizing potential differences.

      (2) Lacks in vivo feeding validation (e.g., infecting flies directly on parasitaemic mice) to strengthen ecological relevance.

      Our study deliberately focused on controlling experimental variables through the use of an artificial feeding system, which allows for standardization of parasite dose and exposure conditions. This approach facilitates reproducibility and direct comparison with previous studies. Also, to us it appears questionable if feeding flies on infected laboratory mice really adds ecological relevance.

      (3) Mechanistic inferences are largely correlative (although not requested, there is no functional validation of genes or pathways emerging from the transcriptomics).

      Functional validation of individual genes or pathways was not undertaken in this study. Instead, the aim was to identify and compare transcriptional signatures associated with slender-to-procyclic versus stumpy-to-procyclic differentiation, and to directly address previous criticism of original finding that slender bloodstream forms are capable of infecting the tsetse fly.

      (4) Reliance on a single parasite clone (AnTat 1.1) and one vector species limits external validity.

      Incorporating additional pleomorphic T. brucei clones and alternative tsetse species would undoubtedly broaden our understanding of parasite-vector interactions, and studies using fresh field isolates and wild-caught tsetse flies would be even more informative. However, in order to directly address the specific concerns raised against our original study (Schuster et al., 2021), it was essential to employ the same parasite clone and vector species.

      We further emphasize that the pleomorphic clone used here is a well-characterized and widely employed T. brucei strain that closely reflects parasites encountered under natural conditions. Likewise, Glossina morsitans represents the standard vector species used in the majority of tsetse laboratories, thereby ensuring reproducibility and facilitating comparison with existing work in the field.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper is an exciting follow-up to two recent publications in eLife: one from the same lab, reporting that slender forms can successfully infect tsetse flies (Schuster, S et al., 2021), and another independent study claiming the opposite (Ngoune, TMJ et al., 2025). Here, the authors address four criticisms raised against their original work: the influence of N-acetyl-glucosamine (NAG), the use of teneral and male flies, and whether slender forms bypass the stumpy stage before becoming procyclic forms.

      Strengths:

      We applaud the authors' efforts in undertaking these experiments and contributing to a better understanding of the T. brucei life cycle. The paper is well-written and the figures are clear.

      Weaknesses:

      We identified several major points that deserve attention.

      (1) What is a slender form? Slender-to-stumpy differentiation is a multi-step process, and most of these steps unfortunately lack molecular markers (Larcombe et al, 2023). In this paper, it is essential that the authors explicitly define slender forms. Which parameters were used? It is implicit that slender forms are replicative and GFP::PAD1-negative. Isn't it possible that some GFP::PAD1-negative cells were already transitioning toward stumpy forms, but not yet expressing the reporter? Transcriptomically, these would be early transitional cells that, upon exposure to "tsetse conditions" (in vitro or in vivo), could differentiate into PCF through an alternative pathway, potentially bypassing the stumpy stage (as suggested in Figure 4). Given the limited knowledge of early molecular signatures of differentiation, we cannot exclude the possibility that the slender forms used here included early differentiating cells. We suggest:

      (1.1) Testing the commitment of slender forms (e.g., using the plating assay in Larcombe et al., 2023), assessing cell-cycle profile, and other parameters that define slender forms.

      (1.2) In the Discussion, acknowledging the uncertainty of "what is a slender?" and being explicit about the parameters and assumptions.

      We appreciate the critical evaluation concerning the identity of slender forms and potential presence of intermediate forms displaying slender morphology yet exhibiting cell-cycle arrest, as proposed in Larcombe et al. (2023). Indeed, our original paper is entitled “Unexpected plasticity in the life cycle of Trypanosoma brucei.” It is precisely this phenotypic plasticity that enables slender parasites to transition directly into the procyclic insect stage. Notably, we have shown that even monomorphic trypanosome strains are capable of undergoing this transition in the fly, and such strains are not considered to represent “intermediate” or “half-stumpy” forms. Consequently, while the question “what constitutes a slender parasite?” may be of conceptual interest, it currently is, in our view, not central to the biological conclusions of this study.

      Nevertheless, we now have included an additional section in our Discussion that compares the slender cells used in our study with the commitment classification introduced by Larcombe et al. Our infection experiments were conducted using cells that meet the Larcombe-criteria of “true slender cells”, characterized by the absence of PAD1 expression and the maintenance of a slender morphology (Supplementary Figure 3A, B, following FACS sorting). Moreover, these cells are not cell-cycle arrested but continue to proliferate (Supplementary Figure 3C). Accordingly, our experimental assumptions and parameters align those of previous studies, in which continuous cell division, lack of cell cycle arrest, lack of PAD1 expression, and slender morphology are still established markers defining the slender bloodstream form.

      (1.3) Clarifying in the Materials and Methods how cultures were maintained in the 3-4 days prior to tsetse infections, including daily cell densities. Ideally, provide information on GFP expression, cell cycle, and morphology. While this will not fully resolve the concern, it will allow future reinterpretation of the data when early molecular events are better understood.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. Details on the maintenance of T. brucei cultures and culture conditions, including cell density, are provided in our previous publication (Schuster et al., 2021). In the present study, cultures were routinely monitored prior to infection to ensure that the cells used were GFP-negative and exhibited the characteristic slender morphology.

      For infections performed with higher cell numbers, fluorescence-activated cell sorting (FACS) was used to obtain a 100% GFP-negative population, thereby avoiding the need for daily monitoring of GFP fluorescence. This approach ensured that all infection experiments were initiated with a homogeneous population of slender bloodstream forms.

      (2) Figure 1: This analysis lacks a positive control to confirm that NAG is working as expected. It would strengthen the paper if the authors showed that NAG improves stumpy infection. Once confirmed, the authors could discuss possible differences in the tsetse immune response to slender vs. stumpy forms to explain the absence of an effect on slender infections.

      The enhancing effect of N-acetylglucosamine (NAG) on stumpy-form infections of T. brucei is well established and widely accepted in the field (e.g. Peacock et al., 2006, 2012). In the present Research Advance, our objective was to directly address the specific concerns raised in response to our previous publication (Schuster et al., 2021), in which NAG supplementation during stumpy infections was already included and shown to function as expected. Accordingly, the aim here was not to reiterate the established role of NAG in promoting stumpy infections, but rather to directly examine infections initiated by slender bloodstream forms in the absence of NAG, thereby approximating more natural conditions.

      (3) Figure 2. To conclude that teneral flies are less infected than non-teneral flies, data from Figures 1 and 2 must be directly comparable. Were these experiments performed simultaneously? Please clarify in the figure legends. Moreover, the non-teneral flies here are still relatively young (6-7 days old), limiting comparisons with Ngoune, TMJ et al. 2025, where flies were 2-3 weeks old.

      The experiments presented in Figures 1 and 2 were not performed simultaneously. Importantly, the comparison between teneral and non-teneral flies was not intended as a direct quantitative comparison across experiments, but rather to assess infection outcomes under distinct physiological states of the vector. It is well established that teneral flies are generally more susceptible to T. brucei infection than non-teneral flies, a phenomenon commonly referred to as the “teneral phenomenon.”

      Our objective was to demonstrate that slender bloodstream forms are capable of establishing infections also in non-teneral flies, thereby directly addressing concerns in the comment to our original study (Schuster et al.) that the experimental set-up may have created an unnaturally permissive environment. The data presented here in fact support the conclusion that slender forms can contribute to disease transmission under more natural conditions.

      A key determinant of the increased susceptibility of teneral flies is the incomplete maturation of the peritrophic matrix (PM) (Walshe et al., 2011; Haines, 2013). In Glossina morsitans morsitans, the PM reaches its full length along the midgut approximately 84 hours post-eclosion (Lehane and Msangi, 1991). In addition, teneral flies have not yet taken a bloodmeal prior to the infective one, a factor known to further increase susceptibility (Haines, 2013).

      In the present paper, non-teneral flies were selected that had received two non-infectious bloodmeals prior to the infective challenge. At 6-7 days post-eclosion, these flies possessed a fully established PM, which is known to increase refractoriness to infection (Walshe et al., 2011), while still being sufficiently young to survive the time required for T. brucei to complete its developmental cycle. This is an important point, as our timing allowed robust interpretation of infection outcomes, without the substantial loss of flies (approximately 40%) that has been reported to occur prior to dissection in Ngoune et al., 2025.

      (4) Figure 3. The PCA plot (A) appears to suggest the opposite of the authors' interpretation: slender differentiation seems to proceed through a transcriptome closer to stumpy profiles. Plotting DEG numbers (panel C) is informative, but how were paired conditions selected? Besides, plotting of the number of DEGs between consecutive time points within and between parasite types is also necessary. There may also be better computational tools to assess temporal relationships. Finally, how does PAD1 transcript abundance change over time in both populations? It would also be important to depict the upregulation of procyclic-specific genes.

      Regarding the PCA plot (Figure 3A), we agree that slender form differentiation transiently exhibits transcriptomic similarities to stumpy form profiles. However, as discussed in the paper, this overlap specifically reflects shared early differentiation responses rather than the adoption of a full stumpy-like transcriptome. The overall trajectory and clustering pattern indicate that slender-derived parasites follow a distinct differentiation path that - as expected -ultimately converges with the procyclic stage, consistent with our interpretation.

      For the DEG analysis (Figure 3C), paired conditions were selected based on biologically meaningful time points corresponding to key stages in the differentiation process, allowing for direct comparisons between slender- and stumpy-derived populations either for the same timepoints following addition of cis-aconitate (Supplementary Figure 5) or timepoints plotting close on the PCA (Supplementary Figure 6).

      We also appreciate the recommendation to consider alternative computational approaches for assessing temporal relationships. While our current analysis provides robust insights into transcriptomic transitions, we agree that future studies employing different tools could further refine our observations.

      Finally, we have included the expression dynamics of PAD1 and PAD2 in the Supplementary Data (Supplementary Figure 8). The expression profile for procyclic-specific genes can now be found in Supplementary Figure 9.

      (5) Could methylcellulose in the medium sensitize parasites to QS-signal, leading to more frequent and/or earlier differentiation, despite low densities? If so, cultures with vs. without methylcellulose might yield different proportions of early-differentiating (yet GFP-negative) parasites. This could explain discrepancies between the Engstler and Rotureau labs despite using the same strain. The field would benefit from reciprocal testing of culture conditions. Alternatively, the authors could compare infectivity and transcriptomes of their slender forms under three conditions: (i) in vitro with methylcellulose, (ii) in vitro without methylcellulose, and (iii) directly from mouse blood.

      The original description of stumpy induction factor (SIF)-mediated quorum sensing in Trypanosoma brucei was performed by the Boshart laboratory using (a) the same cell line employed in the present study and (b) an identical HMI-9 medium supplemented with the same amount of methylcellulose (Reuner et al., 1997; Vassella et al., 1997). All relevant controls were comprehensively reported in those studies in the late 1990s. There is therefore no experimental or historical basis to suggest that methylcellulose sensitises parasites to stumpy differentiation. Moreover, the viscosity of HMI-9-methylcellulose remains well below the threshold required to impose a diffusion barrier for small molecules such as peptides. Consequently, accumulation of SIF as a result of increased medium viscosity can be excluded on physical grounds.

      The present Research Advance was conducted with a focused objective, namely, to directly address the specific concerns raised in response to our original publication (Schuster et al., 2021). Expanding the study to include additional experimental conditions, such as systematic comparisons of cultures grown with and without methylcellulose, or analyses of parasites freshly isolated from mouse blood, would have extended the scope well beyond what is useful for a Research Advance and would have diluted the central purpose of this contribution.

      Recommendations for authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Thank you for your perseverance in filling the gaps flagged by others - these data strengthen the story.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 1: The use of teneral flies is not mentioned in the text or the legend

      Thank you: we added this to the main text and figure legend (lines 103 and 140).

      (2) Figure 1 legend (line 2): Typo - "with or 60 nm" should read "with or without 60 nm."

      Thank you: this has been corrected (line 141).

      (3) Figure 2. Please provide the FACS gating strategy and cell numbers before and after sorting

      The cell number before gating is 1x10<sup>7</sup> cells, and 1x10<sup>6</sup> cells were collected via FACS for infection experiments. This is stated in the Materials & Methods section (lines 473 and 478).

      (4) Figure 3. RNAseq data presentation could be improved:

      (a) Clarify which type of differentially expressed genes are shown in panels B and C (presumably those upregulated in slender forms and those upregulated in stumpy forms).

      Thank you: the information has now been added to the figure legend (lines 279 and 282).

      (b) The color code in panel A is inverted relative to panels B and C.

      Thank you: this has been corrected (figure 3B and C).

      (c) The GO-term analysis represents an important conclusion and should be moved to the main figure.

      As a Research Advance, this paper is restricted in the number of figures and therefore the decision had to be made to move the GO-term analysis to the Supplements.

      (d) Provide dataset quality control in the supplement (genes detected per sample, sample consistency, replicate correlations, etc.).

      Sequencing analysis is now explained in detail in the Materials & Methods section (lines 515 - 528).

      (5) Figure legends: Indicate how many times each experiment was performed and the number of independent biological replicates.

      The number of replicates (and flies per replicate) is stated for both infection experiments in the respective figure legends (lines 143 and 203/04). For the RNA sequencing, it is stated in the main text, and we now have also added the information to the figure legend (lines 219 and 276/77).

      (6) Discussion: Despite the ongoing debate about midgut pH, could the authors also comment on other evidence suggesting that stumpy forms are better adapted to the fly?

      The pH of the midgut has been determined by the Acosta-Serrano laboratory. We have cited the paper (Liniger et al. 2003) in lines 328-330 of the discussion. Furthermore, we have discussed the developing mitochondria of stumpy forms as well as expression of Krebs cycle, and the proposed higher resistance to proteolytic stress (Vickerman, 1965; Brown et al., 1973; Hamm et al., 1990; Reuner et al., 1997, Nolan et al., 2000).

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study provides a valuable contribution to the field of zebrafish immunology by demonstrating that the two TNF paralogs tnfa and tnfb show distinct cellular sources and temporal expression patterns during inflammation. These findings are potentially significant because they suggest regulatory divergence and functional specialization within the TNF signaling system in teleosts. While the evidence supporting differential expression is convincing, the work remains largely observational and would benefit from functional experiments and deeper mechanistic insight to determine whether these differences translate into distinct roles in inflammatory signaling. This work will be of interest to immunologists interested in inflammatory cytokine evolution and immune regulation in vertebrates.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigates the roles of the two tumor necrosis factor genes (tnfa and tnfb) in zebrafish during inflammatory responses. TNF is a central regulator of inflammation across vertebrates; however, while mammalian TNF signaling is well characterized, the functional divergence of duplicated TNF genes in teleosts remains less well understood. In this work, the authors generate novel zebrafish fluorescent reporter lines for tnfb and use them to perform comparative analyses of the spatial and temporal expression patterns of tnfa and tnfb during inflammation. They report that these paralogous genes are produced by distinct immune cell populations and exhibit different induction kinetics during inflammatory processes. Based on these observations, the authors propose that tnfa and tnfb may fulfill non-redundant roles in the zebrafish immune response.

      Strengths:

      The study addresses an important gap in understanding the functional divergence of TNF paralogs in teleosts. Given that gene duplication events are common in fish genomes, clarifying how duplicated cytokines partition their functions is valuable for both evolutionary immunology and zebrafish model research. The work makes effective use of the zebrafish model, which is particularly well suited for in vivo imaging of dynamic immune cell behaviors during inflammation. A key strength of the study is the integration of analyses of cell-type specificity, transcriptional regulation, and temporal expression dynamics. In particular, the live imaging experiments are compelling and provide clear visual evidence that tnfa and tnfb differ in both cellular sources and expression kinetics, which strengthens the claim that these paralogs may have diverged in their regulation and potentially their function. By distinguishing these aspects of the two cytokines, the study provides useful conceptual and methodological guidance for future investigations of inflammatory signaling in zebrafish.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) While the manuscript convincingly documents distinct expression patterns, the functional consequences of these differences remain unexplored. The conclusions regarding non-redundant roles would benefit from functional perturbation experiments. Relatedly, the authors propose that tnfa and tnfb may play different immunological roles, but the mechanistic basis underlying these differences is not addressed. For example, do the two cytokines engage different receptors or signaling pathways? Do they trigger distinct downstream transcriptional programs?

      (2) Some imaging-based observations appear largely qualitative. Additional quantitative analyses, such as statistical comparisons of expression levels across time points or cell populations, would strengthen the robustness of the conclusions. For instance, in Figure 4, the expression levels of tnfa and tnfb reporter transgenes in immune cells should be quantitatively compared between control and amputated conditions.

      (3) It would also be important to clarify whether the distinct maturation kinetics of the fluorescent reporters were taken into account when interpreting expression timing. Since GFP typically matures more rapidly than mCherry in vivo, the authors should comment on whether this difference could influence the apparent expression kinetics of tnfa versus tnfb.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, van Dijk et al analyse the expression of the largely ignored paralogue of TNF in zebrafish, tnfb. They generate reporter transgenic lines and show that the reporter expression is consistent with endogenous mRNA expression in zebrafish larvae. Unlike its better-known paralogue tnfa, tnfb is constitutively expressed in mantle cells of neuromasts, and in a few leukocytes. It is also inducible in macrophages and some neutrophils upon wounding or detection of microbes, with faster kinetics than tnfa or il1b.

      Strengths:

      Generation and convincing validation of new transgenic reporter lines for tnfb with either green or red fluorescent proteins. Superb imaging and careful analysis of these lines crossed to complementary reporter transgenics, backed with in situ hybridization and qRT-PCR analysis of FACS-sorted cells. Excellent methods section.

      Weaknesses:

      Lack of functional analysis; these lines are a potentially valuable tool, but so far provide no clue regarding the role of tnfb. Is it a pro-inflammatory cytokine acting in synergy with tnfa, or is it an antagonist? What are its receptor(s)? What signalling pathways and downstream genes does it induce? Addressing at least some of these questions should greatly increase the impact of the paper.

    4. Author response:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) While the manuscript convincingly documents distinct expression patterns, the functional consequences of these differences remain unexplored. The conclusions regarding non-redundant roles would benefit from functional perturbation experiments. Relatedly, the authors propose that tnfa and tnfb may play different immunological roles, but the mechanistic basis underlying these differences is not addressed. For example, do the two cytokines engage different receptors or signaling pathways? Do they trigger distinct downstream transcriptional programs?

      We agree functional analysis on Tnfb is relevant to address, however, the focus of the current manuscript (Tools and Resources article type) was to report the generation and validation of the new tnfb-reporter line, we feel that functional data is better suited for a separate manuscripts. In fact, this will be part of a follow manuscript which will be forthcoming soon.

      (2) Some imaging-based observations appear largely qualitative. Additional quantitative analyses, such as statistical comparisons of expression levels across time points or cell populations, would strengthen the robustness of the conclusions. For instance, in Figure 4, the expression levels of tnfa and tnfb reporter transgenes in immune cells should be quantitatively compared between control and amputated conditions.

      In figure 4, we focus on which cells express either cytokine, not on when they express it nor whether the one cell expresses more or less eGFP/mCh. Also, tnfb:mCh-F and tnfa:eGFP-F expression is membrane-bound as these protein is farnesylated, whereas il1b:eGFP is not, and has a cytoplasmic distribution. Because of possible biases due to the different distribution or abundance of cytoplasmic vs farnesylated proteins within a cell, we never compared max eGFP to max mCherry within a treatment group.

      (3) It would also be important to clarify whether the distinct maturation kinetics of the fluorescent reporters were taken into account when interpreting expression timing. Since GFP typically matures more rapidly than mCherry in vivo, the authors should comment on whether this difference could influence the apparent expression kinetics of tnfa versus tnfb.

      In figure 5, we do count the cells expressing either of the cytokine, and use eGFP/mCherry signal to infer on how early these cells express the cytokine. We, however, do not directly compare maximum eGFP or mCherry fluorescence intensity per cell, which, especially in the early time points, could be biased by differences in protein maturation, we only score eGFP or mCherry presence in a cell. We could not really compare or account for differences in protein maturation as we do not possess Il1b and tnfa transgenic lines driving mCherry expression for comparison (and to our knowledge are not available in other laboratories). Based on the obtained results however, it appears that the earlier maturation of eGFP compared to mCherry may not influence the outcome of the analysis, as no single tnfa:eGFP-F+ cells were observed at any time point and single il1b:eGFP+ cells were observed only 6h after amputation, whereas eGFP/mCherry double positive cells could be observed as early as 2h after amputation. Any bias should influence the period between 1h and 2h, and we did not look at time lapses shorter than 1h.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Lack of functional analysis; these lines are a potentially valuable tool, but so far provide no clue regarding the role of tnfb. Is it a pro-inflammatory cytokine acting in synergy with tnfa, or is it an antagonist? What are its receptor(s)? What signalling pathways and downstream genes does it induce? Addressing at least some of these questions should greatly increase the impact of the paper.

      Please refer to response to Reviewer #1 point 1.

      We will address the other recommendation to the authors as they will improve the manuscript.

    1. eLife assessment

      The study provides an important advance towards understanding how spatial and temporal transcriptional programs are integrated to regulate lineage-specific chromatin and enhancer activation. The functional evidence is currently incomplete, but the current data provide a solid correlative and conceptual foundation. Functional experiments directly linking Gsb occupancy to chromatin state and regulation of some lineage-specific targets would further strengthen the causal interpretation of the model. Clarifying the scope of conclusions and explicitly acknowledging the technical limitations of current chromatin assays would provide a more balanced interpretation of the manuscript.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      It has long been known that Drosophila embryonic ventral nerve cord neuroblasts incorporate both spatial and temporal transcription factor expression to generate 30 distinct neuroblasts and lineages per hemisegment. This manuscript aims to elucidate the mechanism by which this integration of spatial and temporal transcription factors occurs through "direct regulation" or "epigenetic regulation". Direct regulation is defined as both spatial and temporal factors binding to open chromatin and working together to dictate specific lineages. Epigenetic regulation is defined as a spatial factor priming the chromatin in a neuroblast-specific manner to allow for the integration of temporal factors to generate specific lineages. The authors conclude that there is a two-step model in which a spatial transcription factor code "primes" the chromatin in terms of accessibility and then recruits temporal factors to ensure lineage-specific enhancer activation.

      Strengths:

      The authors tested two models, "direct regulation" vs "epigenetic regulation" in a well-defined pool of neural stem cells during normal development.

      Weaknesses:

      The data in this study cannot clearly substantiate these two models.

      Overall, there are a number of issues that are inconsistent and not supportive of the model proposed in this manuscript. Firstly, there is no evidence of pioneer factor activity in any of the NB lineages described - i.e., any changes in chromatin accessibility being shown over time. The authors must show chromatin conformation changes during the window of spatial transcription factor expression in order to convince the readers of this phenomenon. Secondly, the phenotypic data do not align with the sequencing data - the story would be more cohesive if the sequencing data and phenotypic data were in the same NB subtypes. On one hand, we are shown that Gsb misexpression induces loss of chromatin accessibility in NB 7-4, however in the widespread loss model, we are not shown a phenotype in these NB7-4 - which suggest that the chromatin accessibility at these sites (sites that have already been distinguished as SoIs for that NB subtype) does not play an important role in distinguishing NB 7-4 identity. However, the authors report loss of NB3-5 identity but have no evidence as to how the chromatin has changed (or if it has at all) in that subtype, leaving the readers to wonder how the loss of identity occurred.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This article by Bhattacharya et al. investigates how neural stem cells (NSCs, NBs) in Drosophila integrate spatial and temporal cues to activate neuron-specific terminal selector (TS) genes. Prior to this work, it was understood that NSCs utilize spatial transcription factors (STFs) and temporal transcription factors (TTFs) to determine lineage identity and birth order, but the mechanisms of integration were not fully elucidated. The authors employed chromatin profiling techniques to analyze the binding of STFs and TTFs in two specific neuroblast lineages, NB5-6 and NB7-4. They found that Gsb (an STF) binds both accessible and less-accessible chromatin in NB5-6, while En (another STF) binds only to pre-accessible chromatin in NB7-4. The findings support an "STF code" where the combination of pioneer and non-pioneer spatial factors, along with temporal factors, triggers neuroblast-specific enhancer activation and determines lineage identity.

      Strengths:

      The experiments are well-executed, the interpretations are generally sound, and the figures are clear and elegant. However, some conclusions are drawn too broadly without essential functional data. Therefore, additional work is needed to more effectively convey the central message.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Integration of TaDa and functional data on Gsb for the STF model

      The authors demonstrate that TaDa profiling maps Gsb binding across the genome and identifies candidate chromatin-priming sites in NB5-6. Gsb LOF/GOF experiments reveal effects on NB identity. Combining TaDa data with LOF and GOF analyses indicates that Gsb influences NB5-6 specification by binding to both open and relatively closed chromatin, helping maintain NB5-6 identity while limiting NB3-5 fate.

      However, the study does not establish a direct link between specific LOF/GOF phenotypes and particular genomic targets. For instance, analyzing Gsb occupancy at lineage-specific identity factors or terminal selector genes (such as Lbe, Ap, or Eya for NB5-6; and Ems, etc., for NB3-5) in wild-type and manipulated conditions (Gsb misexpression) would directly connect chromatin binding to the regulation of fate determinants. These investigations would strengthen the mechanistic connection between the correlative TaDa profiles and the observed identity changes, supporting the idea that Gsb functions as a context-dependent chromatin-priming factor within the STF code, rather than as a generic transcription factor.

      (2) Gsb misexpression reveals bidirectional chromatin remodelling

      Experiments with ectopic Gsb expression demonstrate bidirectional chromatin remodeling in NB7-4, showing decreases in accessibility at some binding sites and increases at others. While the authors show that Gsb can disrupt chromatin upon misexpression, interpreting its "pioneer-like" or chromatin-priming activity is complex due to several factors: the misexpression occurs in a non-native lineage, the direct versus indirect effects rely on whole-embryo Dam-Gsb peaks instead of NB7-4-specific binding, and heat-shock-induced chromatin changes are not fully accounted for. These issues make it challenging to definitively determine Gsb's role in chromatin priming.

      A complementary approach would be to perform Gsb knockdown/loss-of-function in its native NB5-6 lineage and profile chromatin accessibility (TaDa or CATaDa). This would allow a cleaner, more physiologically relevant assessment of Gsb's contribution to priming, SoI establishment, and Hb recruitment. Such an experiment would strengthen the causal link between Gsb occupancy and chromatin state and clarify whether Gsb truly acts as a context-dependent pioneer in vivo, rather than producing indirect effects due to ectopic misexpression.

      (3) En is not a pioneer factor

      The authors conclude that Engrailed (En) is not a pioneer factor, based on the observation that En binding correlates with accessible chromatin and that En is not enriched at NB5-6-specific SOIs. However, this conclusion is not sufficiently supported by the functional data.

      First, the absence of En binding at NB5-6-specific SOIs does not necessarily indicate an inability to engage closed chromatin. These regions were not selected for the presence of En consensus motifs, so their lack of occupancy may simply reflect the absence of En binding motifs rather than a lack of pioneering capacity. A systematic motif analysis at NB5-6-specific SOIs is needed to determine whether En binding sites are present but unoccupied.

      Second, the claim that En lacks pioneer activity relies solely on a single steady-state TaDa/DamID occupancy assay at one developmental stage. Because pioneer factor interactions can be transient, low-affinity, and stage-specific, such binding may not be detected by TaDa, which also depends on local GATC density and methylation kinetics and may yield false negatives. Given these technical limitations, the absence of En binding at less accessible regions does not definitively rule out a priming role.

      In the absence of direct functional assays (En LOF/GOF), the authors should explicitly acknowledge these technical and conceptual limitations and tone down the claim that "En lacks pioneer activity".

      (4) Clarity of STF-code Model and Central Message

      The manuscript begins by presenting two models, direct and epigenetic, but the central takeaway of the paper is not clear. Specifically, the nuanced roles of the spatial factors Gsb and En as chromatin-priming versus stabilizing/effector factors within an STF code, and the resulting division of labor, are not clearly illustrated. The distinction between Gsb as a chromatin-priming factor and En as a cofactor-dependent activator/stabilizer should be explicitly presented in a stepwise model for better clarity. The authors could strengthen this by providing a schematic with two sequential stages illustrating how neuroblast identity factors (STF code) change chromatin states to drive lineage-specific enhancer activation. The schematic can be shown from the neuroectoderm to individual NB lineages to make it more panoramic.

      (5) Identification of Priming Factors in NB7-4

      While the authors suggest that an unknown priming factor might be responsible for establishing sites of integration in NB7-4, they do not identify or explore potential candidates for this role. Further investigation into what factors might be involved in chromatin priming in NB7-4 could provide a more complete understanding of the mechanisms at play.

      (6) Functional Validation of STF Code Components

      The study proposes an STF code for each neuroblast lineage, but the specific components of these codes, beyond Gsb and En, are not fully explored. Identifying and validating additional factors that contribute to the STF code in each lineage could strengthen the conclusions.

    4. Author Response:

      eLife assessment:

      The study provides an important advance towards understanding how spatial and temporal transcriptional programs are integrated to regulate lineage-specific chromatin and enhancer activation. The functional evidence is currently incomplete, but the current data provide a solid correlative and conceptual foundation. Functional experiments directly linking Gsb occupancy to chromatin state and regulation of some lineage-specific targets would further strengthen the causal interpretation of the model. Clarifying the scope of conclusions and explicitly acknowledging the technical limitations of current chromatin assays would provide a more balanced interpretation of the manuscript.

      We thank the reviewers and editors for their comments on our manuscript. We address here the concerns raised by them.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      It has long been known that Drosophila embryonic ventral nerve cord neuroblasts incorporate both spatial and temporal transcription factor expression to generate 30 distinct neuroblasts and lineages per hemisegment. This manuscript aims to elucidate the mechanism by which this integration of spatial and temporal transcription factors occurs through "direct regulation" or "epigenetic regulation". Direct regulation is defined as both spatial and temporal factors binding to open chromatin and working together to dictate specific lineages. Epigenetic regulation is defined as a spatial factor priming the chromatin in a neuroblast-specific manner to allow for the integration of temporal factors to generate specific lineages. The authors conclude that there is a two-step model in which a spatial transcription factor code "primes" the chromatin in terms of accessibility and then recruits temporal factors to ensure lineage-specific enhancer activation.

      We thank the reviewer for this clear and succinct summary and for accurately capturing the central idea of the model we propose. In particular, we appreciate that the reviewer highlights the distinction between the previously proposed “direct regulation” and “epigenetic regulation” models, which our work suggests may operate together within neuroblast lineages through a combinatorial spatial transcription factor code.

      Strengths:

      The authors tested two models, "direct regulation" vs "epigenetic regulation" in a well-defined pool of neural stem cells during normal development.

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing this aspect of the study.

      Weaknesses:

      The data in this study cannot clearly substantiate these two models.

      Overall, there are a number of issues that are inconsistent and not supportive of the model proposed in this manuscript. Firstly, there is no evidence of pioneer factor activity in any of the NB lineages described - i.e., any changes in chromatin accessibility being shown over time. The authors must show chromatin conformation changes during the window of spatial transcription factor expression in order to convince the readers of this phenomenon.

      Thank you for raising this point. In most studies, pioneer or chromatin-priming activity is inferred from a transcription factor’s ability to bind regions of relatively low accessibility and to remodel chromatin upon perturbation, rather than from direct developmental time-course measurements of chromatin accessibility.

      In our study we provide two lines of evidence consistent with such activity. First, TaDa profiling shows that Gsb occupies both accessible loci and regions that are relatively less accessible in NB5-6. Second, ectopic expression of Gsb in the non-cognate NB7-4 lineage results in clear chromatin remodelling, with loci both gaining and losing accessibility (Fig. 6). These perturbation experiments demonstrate that Gsb is sufficient to alter chromatin accessibility in vivo and therefore support a chromatin-priming role for it.

      We agree that a developmental time-course would be very informative. The difficulty is that, in this system, the relevant sequence unfolds extremely rapidly and across two different cellular contexts. Spatial transcription factors such as Gsb are expressed in the neuroectoderm, neuroblasts are then specified and delaminate, and Hb expression begins almost immediately after NB formation — on the order of minutes to tens of minutes. Before delamination there is no neuroblast to target with NB-specific drivers, and once the NB forms the temporal program is already underway. More generally, resolving chromatin accessibility changes across this transition would require temporally precise profiling at very high resolution in vivo, likely with live or near-live methods, and is not feasible with the Dam-based lineage-restricted approaches currently available.

      Secondly, the phenotypic data do not align with the sequencing data - the story would be more cohesive if the sequencing data and phenotypic data were in the same NB subtypes. On one hand, we are shown that Gsb misexpression induces loss of chromatin accessibility in NB 7-4, however in the widespread loss model, we are not shown a phenotype in these NB7-4 - which suggest that the chromatin accessibility at these sites (sites that have already been distinguished as SoIs for that NB subtype) does not play an important role in distinguishing NB 7-4 identity. However, the authors report loss of NB3-5 identity but have no evidence as to how the chromatin has changed (or if it has at all) in that subtype, leaving the readers to wonder how the loss of identity occurred

      Thank you for raising this point regarding the alignment between the chromatin and phenotypic analyses. The reviewer’s comment made us realise that the rationale for these experiments may not have been sufficiently clear in the original manuscript and could therefore be perceived as misaligned. We therefore explain the logic of the experimental design here and will edit the manuscript in the revision to clarify this point for readers.

      The chromatin experiments were designed to test whether Gsb is capable of remodelling chromatin when introduced into a non-cognate lineage. For this purpose, NB7-4 provided a suitable lineage with clean genetic access for TaDa/CATaDa experiments, allowing us to assess whether ectopic Gsb expression can alter chromatin accessibility in vivo.

      The functional role of Gsb, however, was examined within the spatial domain in which it is normally expressed. We knocked-down Gsb broadly and early in development and assayed its effects on NB5-6. Consistent with its established role in row-5/6 patterning, reduction of Gsb disrupted the specification of NB5-6 identity. In the converse experiment, broad misexpression of Gsb led to a partial expansion of NB5-6 markers. Because spatial patterning in the ventral nerve cord is organized into mutually exclusive row identities, changes in NB5-6 specification can be accompanied by reciprocal effects in neighbouring lineages. In our experiments, this is reflected in changes in markers of adjacent identities, particularly NB3-5. For this reason, NB3-5 markers provide a sensitive and informative readout of altered NB5-6 specification in the phenotypic analyses.

      We recognize that this point may not have been clear in the original manuscript. To avoid similar confusion for readers, we will make this reasoning explicitly clear in the revision.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This article by Bhattacharya et al. investigates how neural stem cells (NSCs, NBs) in Drosophila integrate spatial and temporal cues to activate neuron-specific terminal selector (TS) genes. Prior to this work, it was understood that NSCs utilize spatial transcription factors (STFs) and temporal transcription factors (TTFs) to determine lineage identity and birth order, but the mechanisms of integration were not fully elucidated. The authors employed chromatin profiling techniques to analyze the binding of STFs and TTFs in two specific neuroblast lineages, NB5-6 and NB7-4. They found that Gsb (an STF) binds both accessible and less-accessible chromatin in NB5-6, while En (another STF) binds only to pre-accessible chromatin in NB7-4. The findings support an "STF code" where the combination of pioneer and non-pioneer spatial factors, along with temporal factors, triggers neuroblast-specific enhancer activation and determines lineage identity.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s careful summary of our findings and their clear articulation of the STF-code framework that emerges from the work.

      Strengths:

      The experiments are well-executed, the interpretations are generally sound, and the figures are clear and elegant. However, some conclusions are drawn too broadly without essential functional data. Therefore, additional work is needed to more effectively convey the central message.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive assessment of the experiments, interpretation, and figures, and we respond to their specific concerns below.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Integration of TaDa and functional data on Gsb for the STF model

      The authors demonstrate that TaDa profiling maps Gsb binding across the genome and identifies candidate chromatin-priming sites in NB5-6. Gsb LOF/GOF experiments reveal effects on NB identity. Combining TaDa data with LOF and GOF analyses indicates that Gsb influences NB5-6 specification by binding to both open and relatively closed chromatin, helping maintain NB5-6 identity while limiting NB3-5 fate.

      However, the study does not establish a direct link between specific LOF/GOF phenotypes and particular genomic targets. For instance, analyzing Gsb occupancy at lineage-specific identity factors or terminal selector genes (such as Lbe, Ap, or Eya for NB5-6; and Ems, etc., for NB3-5) in wild-type and manipulated conditions (Gsb misexpression) would directly connect chromatin binding to the regulation of fate determinants. These investigations would strengthen the mechanistic connection between the correlative TaDa profiles and the observed identity changes, supporting the idea that Gsb functions as a context-dependent chromatin-priming factor within the STF code, rather than as a generic transcription factor.

      We thank the reviewer for this very helpful suggestion. We agree that illustrating how the TaDa binding profiles relate to known lineage determinants will help connect the genome-wide chromatin data to the developmental phenotypes. In the revision therefore, we will examine Gsb occupancy at several genes associated with NB5-6 and NB3-5 identity (including Lbe, Ap, Eya, and Ems).

      (2) Gsb misexpression reveals bidirectional chromatin remodelling

      Experiments with ectopic Gsb expression demonstrate bidirectional chromatin remodeling in NB7-4, showing decreases in accessibility at some binding sites and increases at others. While the authors show that Gsb can disrupt chromatin upon misexpression, interpreting its "pioneer-like" or chromatin-priming activity is complex due to several factors: the misexpression occurs in a non-native lineage, the direct versus indirect effects rely on whole-embryo Dam-Gsb peaks instead of NB7-4-specific binding, and heat-shock-induced chromatin changes are not fully accounted for. These issues make it challenging to definitively determine Gsb's role in chromatin priming.

      A complementary approach would be to perform Gsb knockdown/loss-of-function in its native NB5-6 lineage and profile chromatin accessibility (TaDa or CATaDa). This would allow a cleaner, more physiologically relevant assessment of Gsb's contribution to priming, SoI establishment, and Hb recruitment. Such an experiment would strengthen the causal link between Gsb occupancy and chromatin state and clarify whether Gsb truly acts as a context-dependent pioneer in vivo, rather than producing indirect effects due to ectopic misexpression.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. We agree that the ectopic Gsb misexpression experiment in NB7-4 should be interpreted as a test of chromatin-remodelling capacity rather than as a fully physiological assay of Gsb function in its native NB5-6 context. At the same time, we note that ectopic expression in a non-native lineage is a standard approach used to assess pioneering or chromatin-remodelling capacity, precisely because it tests whether a factor can alter chromatin outside its endogenous setting. In the revision, we will explicitly discuss this distinction.

      We also agree that NB7-4-specific Gsb occupancy under misexpression would provide a cleaner distinction between direct and indirect effects. In the current manuscript, we infer likely direct effects from overlap with whole-embryo Gsb Dam profiles: loci that lose accessibility upon Gsb misexpression overlap whole-embryo Gsb binding, whereas loci that gain accessibility generally do not. We interpret this as support for the idea that decreased accessibility is more likely to reflect direct Gsb action, whereas increased accessibility is more likely to be indirect. We will clarify this logic in the revision.

      Regarding the reviewer’s suggestion of profiling chromatin accessibility after Gsb loss in native NB5-6, we completely agree that this would be an important complementary experiment. However, this experiment is not currently possible in our system. Gsb is required before NB specification/delamination, whereas available NB5-6 Gal4 drivers turn on only after this stage, precluding the use of RNAi. Early mutant analysis is also technically difficult because homozygous mutant embryos cannot be readily identified at the required stage, and the TaDa/CATaDa approach in this system requires large amounts of input material collected during the very short Hb window. We also tested an early CRISPR-based strategy using maternally contributed Cas9, but in this context the NB5-6 driver is lost, preventing TaDa/CATaDa profiling. We will therefore revise the manuscript to acknowledge that the current misexpression data support chromatin-remodelling capacity and are consistent with context-dependent priming, while not definitively establishing endogenous priming activity in NB5-6.

      (3) En is not a pioneer factor

      The authors conclude that Engrailed (En) is not a pioneer factor, based on the observation that En binding correlates with accessible chromatin and that En is not enriched at NB5-6-specific SOIs. However, this conclusion is not sufficiently supported by the functional data.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We agree that, in several places, our wording was stronger than warranted by the data. For example, we stated that this pattern “argues against a pioneer role for En” and that the results “indicate that En does not act as a pioneer factor.” We agree that these statements are too definitive given the current evidence. Below, we address each of the reviewer’s specific concerns and explain the reasoning behind our original interpretation.

      First, the absence of En binding at NB5-6-specific SOIs does not necessarily indicate an inability to engage closed chromatin. These regions were not selected for the presence of En consensus motifs, so their lack of occupancy may simply reflect the absence of En binding motifs rather than a lack of pioneering capacity. A systematic motif analysis at NB5-6-specific SOIs is needed to determine whether En binding sites are present but unoccupied.

      We agree that the absence of En binding at NB5-6-specific SOIs alone would not be sufficient to infer a lack of pioneering activity, particularly if these loci do not contain En consensus motifs. That observation was only the starting point for our interpretation. Our reasoning was based on several additional lines of evidence from the genome-wide analysis:

      (1) When we examined En binding genome-wide, we consistently found that En occupancy in NB7-4 is restricted to regions of accessible chromatin.

      (2) Loci that are less accessible in NB7-4 show no detectable En occupancy.

      (3) Accessibility is strongly predictive of En binding: chromatin accessibility is markedly higher at En-bound loci than at En-unbound loci.

      Taken together, these patterns suggested to us that En binding in this lineage occurs primarily at pre-accessible chromatin rather than at less accessible regions that would require priming.

      Our interpretation was also guided by the broader literature. To our knowledge, neither Drosophila Engrailed nor its vertebrate homologues (EN1/EN2) have been reported to bind nucleosome-occluded DNA or initiate chromatin opening, which further informed our original interpretation.

      That said, we agree with the reviewer that these observations are suggestive rather than definitive. We will therefore temper the language throughout the manuscript so that we do not make categorical claims about En lacking pioneer activity. We will also perform the suggested motif analysis at NB5-6-specific SOIs to determine whether En binding motifs are present at these loci, which should help clarify whether the lack of En occupancy reflects motif availability or chromatin state.

      Second, the claim that En lacks pioneer activity relies solely on a single steady-state TaDa/DamID occupancy assay at one developmental stage. Because pioneer factor interactions can be transient, low-affinity, and stage-specific, such binding may not be detected by TaDa, which also depends on local GATC density and methylation kinetics and may yield false negatives. Given these technical limitations, the absence of En binding at less accessible regions does not definitively rule out a priming role.

      We take the reviewer’s point that our data cannot definitively rule out En as a pioneer. At the same time, it may be useful to clarify that TaDa is not a snapshot assay. Because Dam-mediated methylation accumulates over time while the fusion protein is expressed, even weak or transient interactions can leave a detectable signal when averaged across many cells and across the duration of the expression window.

      This cumulative nature of the assay is why our consistent observation of strong enrichment of En at accessible loci, and no detectable enrichment at less accessible regions across the genome, led us to infer that En binding in NB7-4 is strongly conditioned on chromatin accessibility. We nevertheless agree that this does not definitively exclude rare or transient interactions below the detection threshold of the assay, and we will temper the language in the manuscript accordingly.

      In the absence of direct functional assays (En LOF/GOF), the authors should explicitly acknowledge these technical and conceptual limitations and tone down the claim that "En lacks pioneer activity".

      Yes, we will do that!

      (4) Clarity of STF-code Model and Central Message

      The manuscript begins by presenting two models, direct and epigenetic, but the central takeaway of the paper is not clear. Specifically, the nuanced roles of the spatial factors Gsb and En as chromatin-priming versus stabilizing/effector factors within an STF code, and the resulting division of labor, are not clearly illustrated. The distinction between Gsb as a chromatin-priming factor and En as a cofactor-dependent activator/stabilizer should be explicitly presented in a stepwise model for better clarity. The authors could strengthen this by providing a schematic with two sequential stages illustrating how neuroblast identity factors (STF code) change chromatin states to drive lineage-specific enhancer activation. The schematic can be shown from the neuroectoderm to individual NB lineages to make it more panoramic.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and for clearly articulating the conceptual point. As the reviewer points out, the literature has generally framed spatial–temporal integration as two alternative models—direct regulation at pre-accessible enhancers versus epigenetic priming by spatial factors. Our results suggest that elements of both mechanisms may operate within a lineage through a combinatorial STF code, with different spatial factors playing distinct roles (for example, Gsb contributing to chromatin priming, while En acts primarily at pre-accessible enhancers together with Hb). We agree that this central idea would benefit from being illustrated more explicitly. In the revision we will add a schematic summarizing this proposed two-step model and clarify the relevant parts of the text.

      (5) Identification of Priming Factors in NB7-4

      While the authors suggest that an unknown priming factor might be responsible for establishing sites of integration in NB7-4, they do not identify or explore potential candidates for this role. Further investigation into what factors might be involved in chromatin priming in NB7-4 could provide a more complete understanding of the mechanisms at play.

      We agree that identifying the factor responsible for establishing sites of integration in NB7-4 would be very informative. However, doing so would require substantial additional experiments to systematically test candidate spatial factors and assess their effects on chromatin accessibility in this lineage. Our goal in the present study was to establish how spatial and temporal cues are integrated at lineage-specific enhancers rather than to fully dissect all components of the STF code in each lineage. Identifying the priming factor in NB7-4 is therefore an important next step that we intend to pursue in future work, and we will clarify this point in the Discussion.

      (6) Functional Validation of STF Code Components

      The study proposes an STF code for each neuroblast lineage, but the specific components of these codes, beyond Gsb and En, are not fully explored. Identifying and validating additional factors that contribute to the STF code in each lineage could strengthen the conclusions.

      We agree that identifying additional components of the STF codes operating in each lineage would be very informative. Our goal in this study was not to comprehensively define all spatial factors involved in each lineage, but rather to understand how spatial and temporal inputs are integrated at lineage-specific enhancers. By examining two well-characterized spatial factors with distinct properties -- Gsb in NB5-6 and En in NB7-4 -- we aimed to illustrate how different members of an STF code can play distinct roles in shaping chromatin accessibility and enhancer activation. Identifying additional factors that contribute to these lineage-specific codes will be an important direction for future work.

    1. eLife assessment:

      This important study presents a novel and technically robust framework that combines deep learning and optimized patch‑clamp protocols to infer biophysical parameters and generate electrophysiology‑based digital twins, with the inclusion of convincing experimental data being a clear strength; there is methodological innovation and potential impact for understanding cellular heterogeneity, drug response, and arrhythmia risk prediction. Concerns remain about clarity and validation, particularly regarding the biological meaning of the modeled heterogeneity, the selection and sufficiency of large synthetic training populations, and the robustness and uniqueness of inferred parameter sets. Most notably, key translational claims (e.g., replacing large‑scale wet experiments and predicting rare arrhythmic events) lack direct experimental validation and head‑to‑head comparisons with conventional protocols. Overall, while the approach is promising and timely, stronger biological grounding, clearer framing, and additional experimental validation are needed to support the manuscript's broad claims.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study presents an interesting approach for finding electrophysiological models that match experimental patch-clamp data. The authors develop a new method for deriving optimized current clamp protocols by training a neural network on synthetic data. This optimized current clamp is then used on both computational training data and on experimental data to predict current gating and conductance parameters that correctly reconstruct the electrical phenotype.

      Strengths:

      (1) The fitting of gating variables through an optimized patch clamp protocol is interesting.

      (2) The inclusion of experimental data is important, and the approach is shown to be effective in fitting them.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Some clarity is necessary on the generation and selection of variable IPSC models. With such a large variation in so many parameters, I would expect some resulting parameters to generate non-realistic phenotypes, quiescent cells, etc. Are all 200,000 or 1,100,000 generated cells viable? Or are they selected somehow for realistic cell properties?

      (2) The error shown in Figure 4 between different population sizes is not completely explained in the text - there seems to be a minimal difference between a population of 1,000 and 10,000, followed by a very good fit at 200,000. Is there a particular threshold that needs to be crossed where the error drops off? Related, how was the 200,000 number chosen?

      (3) Related to the point above, the 1,100,000 population for fitting experimental data also needs a more complete explanation: how was this number chosen, and how does the error compare with the other population sizes shown in Figure 4?

      (4) Why are the optimized current clamp protocols different between panels A and B in Figure 5? Are they somehow informed by experimental data?

      (5) Figure 6D: Is the EAD risk in panel D specific to cell 1, 2, or the pooled variants of both?

      (6) How sensitive is the fitting to minor parameter variation? Further, if one were to pick, let's say, the next-best fitting value, would that fall close to the best one? Is the solution found unique, or are there multiple sets with good fits?

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors present a computational framework for generating "cell-specific" digital twins of human iPSC-CMs from a single optimized voltage clamp recording. Using deep learning trained on > 1 million artificial cells, the authors demonstrate that the model can infer 52 biophysical parameters governing 6 major ionic currents, and the resulting digital twins can reproduce experimentally recorded action potentials.

      Strengths:

      The framework has clear potential for understanding cellular heterogeneity in iPSC-CMs, predicting individual drug responses, and reducing the experimental burden of multiple patch clamp protocols.

      Weaknesses:

      There are several concerns about the validation of the model and its clarity. First, the biological variability being modeled in this manuscript is not defined well. It is unclear whether the framework addresses cell-to-cell differences within a single differentiation batch, variability across iPSC lines, or donor-to-donor differences. This ambiguity makes it difficult to interpret what the "digital twin populations" actually represent biologically. Second, the main claim, "the digital twins enable drug testing and arrhythmia prediction that would be impractical experimentally", is not experimentally validated. For example, the E-4031 simulations predict EAD rates, but no direct experimental head-to-head comparison is provided to confirm that these predictions are accurate. Third, technical reproducibility and biological representativeness are not assessed. Single voltage clamp recordings are inherently noisy. Without knowing how much variability comes from the recording process (technical variation) vs true biological differences, it is difficult to judge whether observed "cell-specific" parameter differences are meaningful. In addition, the optimized protocol is claimed to be superior to conventional approaches, but again, no experimental comparison is shown.

      The authors should address these concerns, with particular emphasis on clarifying the biological context and providing direct experimental validation. Below are detailed specific points:

      (1) Ambiguous definition of iPSC-CM heterogeneity.

      The authors model "typical iPSC-CM heterogeneity" by varying 52 parameters +/- 40% around a baseline model (Figure 1), generating > 1 million synthetic cells. However, the manuscript does not clearly state what biological variability this model is intended to capture. Is this modeling within-line, cell-to-cell variability (e.g., cells from the same dish or differentiation batch that differ due to stochastic gene expression or maturation state)? Or is this modeling between-line or between-donor variability (e.g., genetic background differences, reprogramming efficiency)? This distinction is critical for interpretation. If the goal is to understand why different cells in the same dish behave differently, then training data should reflect that. If the goal is to compare patient lines or disease models, the framework needs validation across multiple donors or lines.

      For example, the experimental validation in Figure 5 uses a single iPSC line (iPS-6-9-9T.B), but how many differentiation batches or dishes were tested, or whether cells came from the same preparation are unclear. Another example is that the wide AP diversity in the training population (Figure 1A) is impressive, but there is no demonstration that real experimental cells actually fall within this assumption range of +/- 40%.

      From a biological perspective, iPSC-CMs are known to be highly heterogeneous within lines (maturation state, metabolic differences, epigenetic variation, spatial differences within the same dish, etc) and between lines (different donor/genetic background). Thus, please explicitly state whether the +/- 40% variation is intended to model within-line or between-line heterogeneity, and justify this choice with wet experiment data (or reference to experimental literature on iPSC-CM variability). Please clarify how many dishes, differentiation batches, and time points post-differentiation were used for experimental recordings (Figures 5-6). If the framework is intended to generalize across lines from different donors, please test the model on multiple independent iPSC lines (from different donors).

      (2) Biological representativeness of single-cell measurements.

      The framework generates digital twins from single voltage clamp recordings. The patch clamp recordings in iPSC-CMs are subject to substantial technical variability. The manuscript does not address a fundamental question: "How representative are the measurements from a single cell on the dish (or line)?" In other words, if I measure one cell from a dish of a million cells, does that cell's digital twin tell me something about the dish as a whole, or just about that one cell? The manuscript presents Cell 1 and Cell 2 (Figures 5-6) as distinct individuals, but it's unclear whether these differences reflect true biological heterogeneity or simply sampling variability. I think the authors should perform replicate recordings on multiple cells (e.g., > 10 cells) from the same dish (same differentiation batch) and quantify how much the inferred parameters vary, and then compare between lines.

      (3) No experimental validation of the main claim that in silico populations can replace wet experiments.

      The most exciting claim in the manuscript is that digital twins enable drug testing and arrhythmia prediction "at scale" without requiring hundreds of patch clamp experiments. Specifically, the authors show that in silico populations derived from two experimental cells (Figure 6C) predict dose-dependent EAD incidence for the IKr blocker E-4031 (Figure 6D), with ~3% of cells showing EADs at 50 nM.

      However, this prediction is not validated experimentally. If I actually patch 20-30 real iPSC-CMs and apply 50 nM E-4031, will ~3% of them show EADs, as the model predicts? Without this validation, I think the drug testing framework is purely hypothetical. The model may be internally consistent (e.g., Cell 1's twin behaves differently from Cell 2's twin), but there is no evidence that these in silico populations reflect real biological variability in drug response. Please provide experimental validation that justifies the prediction by digital twins.

      (4) Experimental validation and head-to-head comparison of optimized protocol.

      The authors claim that their deep learning-optimized voltage clamp protocol (Figure 3, Figure 4A) is superior to conventional approaches, but they have not validated this experimentally by doing a head-to-head comparison. The manuscript does not compare the optimized protocol to any published voltage clamp designs. If the optimized protocol is genuinely easier to implement and more informative than existing approaches, this would be a major practical advance. But without side-by-side comparison, it is impossible to judge whether the optimization made a real difference.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work uses a convolutional neural network to optimize a voltage clamp protocol to identify features and parameters from human pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes.

      Yang et al. introduce an innovative experimental framework that integrates computational modeling and deep learning to generate a digital twin of human pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes (hPSC-CMs).

      Strengths:

      The major strength is the methodology used to bridge in silico prediction of cell behavior and mechanistic insights from the experimental dataset.

      The approach used in this study represents a significant step toward precision medicine by enabling in silico prediction of cellular behavior and mechanistic insight from experimental datasets. The study addresses an important and timely challenge in stem cell-based and personalized medicine, and the authors compellingly leverage state-of-the-art methods alongside strong expertise in computational modeling and cardiac electrophysiology

      Weaknesses:

      While the overall approach is highly compelling and the potential impact is substantial, there are two areas where clarification and refinement, particularly in the phrasing and framing used throughout the manuscript, would further strengthen the work.

      (1) While the overall goal of the study is compelling, the manuscript would benefit from clearer articulation of how the proposed framework is intended to be used in practice. In particular, it is not entirely clear whether the authors envision this approach as:

      a) a method to extract population-level trends that, when paired with biological data, enhance statistical power and interpretability, or

      b) a strategy capable of constructing a population-based model from limited single-cell recordings. If the latter is intended, additional guidance on the number of action potentials required per cell and the assumptions underlying this extrapolation would greatly clarify the scope and applicability of the method.

      (2) The manuscript would also benefit from a clearer explanation of how electrophysiological heterogeneity observed in hPSC-CMs is linked to inter-patient variability. Although the authors state that this framework can be generalized to compare patient-specific hiPSC-CM lines, it remains unclear how this generalization is achieved, given the substantial sources of variability intrinsic to hiPSC-CMs (e.g., batch effects, reprogramming strategy, differentiation protocol, and maturation state). As acknowledged by the authors, addressing this level of variability likely requires large datasets; further clarification of how the proposed approach mitigates or accommodates these challenges would strengthen the translational claims.

      Below are my suggestions that could help strengthen the claims in the manuscript:

      (1) Adding a dedicated section describing the electrophysiological phenotype of the hPSC-CMs used in this study would help justify the choice of the underlying ionic model and the selection of the six ion currents analyzed. These currents are not only developmentally regulated but may also vary substantially across different hPSC-CM lines, which has implications for generalizability.

      (2) If feasible, inclusion of patch-clamp data from an additional hPSC-CM line would significantly strengthen the claim that this framework can harmonize and generalize across datasets and cell sources.

      (3) The authors note that the experimental cells exhibited high variability in action potential morphology. This is an important observation that directly supports the motivation for the study and should be explicitly presented, even if only in the supplementary materials.

      (4) In the hERG-blocker experiments, further clarification is needed regarding the biological relevance of the reported 3% incidence of early afterdepolarizations (EADs). Additionally, an interrupted sentence in this section makes it unclear whether the goal is to demonstrate that the digital twin can capture rare arrhythmic risk events or whether the digital twin is necessary to determine whether this level of risk is clinically meaningful.

      (5) The manuscript states that some action potentials were excluded from the experimental dataset. A brief explanation of the exclusion criteria, along with guidance on how to distinguish high-quality from low-quality recordings, would improve transparency and reproducibility.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important study by Mattenburger et al. employs structural biology, biochemistry, and genetics to advance understanding of how bacteriophage contractile injection systems mediate host recognition and DNA delivery, yielding a remarkable 1.15 A crystal structure of the T4 spike tip complex (gp5-gp5.4). The compelling evidence presented demonstrates that the spike tip protein gp5.4 is essential for phage fitness and successful infection of Escherichia coli strains bearing truncated lipopolysaccharide; however, direct proof regarding interaction with the cell wall or its components is lacking. The study further provides biochemical evidence that the analogous spike tip protein from phage P2 (GpV) is translocated into the host periplasm during infection, together establishing the spike tip as a critical and active component of the phage infection machinery.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Here, Mattenburger et al use structural biology, biochemistry, and genetics to analyze the membrane-attacking end (spike/spike tip) of the contractile injection systems of two DNA phages (P2 and T4). Understanding how a phage tail mediates host recognition and injects DNA into the host is an important question. This manuscript is divided into two stories. First is a biochemical fractionation showing that the fused spike-spike tip protein of P2 (GpV) is translocated into the host periplasm. Second is a somewhat separate story about the spike tip protein of T4 (gp5.4), which is structurally characterized and shown to aid in infection of E. coli with truncated lipopolysaccharides (LPS). I find the suggestion that gp5.4 aids in penetration of the bacterial envelope the most compelling portion of the manuscript, but I find this conclusion to be insufficiently supported, and the presentation could be described as awkward. Further, while the experiments are generally elegant, I believe additional experiments and a discussion to fully connect the two stories of the manuscript would increase impact.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript is methodologically careful and adds nuance to our understanding of P2 and T4 spike function. The T4 gp5.4 structure is extensively characterized, with crystallography and cryo-EM support. Many experiments are elegant and clever, specifically the P2 periplasmic fractionation and the ex vivo gp5.4 phage reconstitution. If completely supported and explained, the finding that gp5.4 aids in penetration of the bacterial envelope rather than adsorption is compelling.

      Weaknesses:

      The novelty of the work is somewhat incremental, as phage injection is known to occur into the periplasm and gp5.4 is known to be part of the spike tip (Taylor et al, 2016). The finding that gp5.4 promotes penetration and DNA delivery in strains with truncated LPS is incompletely supported. The gp5.4am phage plaquing data are incompletely explained, and may generate a more modest effect for gp5.4 than is claimed. The P2 results, although well-performed, do not directly support the T4 experiments given the evolutionary divergence between these two phages. Lastly, the overall organization of the manuscript and writing is lacking as (1) the P2 results are presented within the T4 data, (2) many figures are presented out of order, and (3) there is no discussion to contextualize the results for the reader.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript provides a very high-resolution crystal structure of the bacteriophage T4 spike gp5-gp5.4 complex and clear evidence of the importance of gp5.4 for the fitness of the phage and its necessity for successful infection of strains of Escherichia coli with truncated lipopolysaccharide. Evidence, or at least speculation, as to what bacterial compounds gp5.4 interacts with would have been welcome.

      Strong points:

      (1) Very high resolution detailed crystal structure of the gp5-gp5.4 complex.

      (2) First proof of the importance of gp5.4 for bacteriophage T4 and by extension, of homologous proteins in other phages.

      Weaker points:

      (1) Localisation experiments were performed not with protein 5.4 but the homologous gpV from bacteriophage P2.

      (2) The exact mechanism was not yet resolved, i.e. to which bacterial component gp5.4 binds.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The paper describes the structure of gp5.4, the spike tip of phage T4. This structure was released in the PBD in 2013. The paper further investigates the role of this protein in virion assembly, stability, and infection by comparing the behaviour of the WT phage and a phage without the protein, resulting from an amber mutation in the phage genome. A competition assay between the WT and mutant phage shows a clear increase in the fitness of the WT. A further screening of a transposon bank allowed for the identification of a host strain that is resistant to the mutant phage while still sensitive to the WT phage.

      Strengths:

      (1) Beautiful structure, at very high resolution (1.15 Å).

      (2) Very sophisticated microbiology experiments to allow mutant phage characterisation and dissect the role of the spike tip in phage fitness.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The paper is very descriptive, and the lack of a general conclusion, not to say discussion, is frustrating. What do the findings of the paper bring to the knowledge of infection? What would be the fate of the spike and tip? A discussion in the context of the data available in the literature would greatly increase the interest of the paper.

      (2) Why didn't the authors include the description of the structure of the homologous Pvc10 and PhiKV gp5.4 in complex with gp5ß, which they also solved a while ago?

      (3) Because microbiology is sophisticated, special care should be taken to introduce the strains used (both E. coli and T4). E.g. it is still not clear to me what the difference is between the supF and the supD coli strains in terms of mutant phage produced (both should produce T4(5.4am)-gp5.4?).

      (4) For the same reason, strains should always be called by the same name.

      (5) In some sections, the conclusion seems lost in the description of controls (e.g. in the "The spike is translocated into the periplasmic space during infection" paragraph).

      Appraisal:

      The authors show that the sharp tip of the membrane-perforating tube of T4 contractile tail contributes to perforating the outer membrane. In particular, this protein is necessary in a host bearing mutated LPS.

    1. eLife Assessment

      In their study, Brown et. al. provide an important advance in understanding the architecture of the mycobacterial outer membrane. Using all-atom simulations of model mycomembranes, the work reports compelling structural insights into how α-mycolic acids and outer leaflet lipids (PDIM and PAT) shape membrane organisation. The work revealed membrane heterogeneity with ordered inner leaflets and disordered outer leaflets that provide a molecular explanation for the resilience of the mycobacterial envelope.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Disclaimer:

      This reviewer is not an expert on MD simulations but has a basic understanding of the findings reported and is well-versed with mycobacterial lipids.

      Summary:

      In this manuscript titled "Dynamic Architecture of Mycobacterial Outer Membranes Revealed by All-Atom 1 Simulations", Brown et al describe outcomes of all-atom simulation of a model outer membrane of mycobacteria. This compelling study provided three key insights:

      (1) The likely conformation of the unusually long chain alpha-branched, beta-methoxy fatty acids-mycolic acids in the mycomembrane to be the extended U or Z type rather than the compacted W-type.

      (2) Outer leaflet lipids such as PDIM and PAT provide regional vertical heterogeneity and disorder in the mycomembrane that is otherwise prevented in a mycolic acid only bilayer.

      (3) Removal of specific lipid classes from the symmetric membrane systems lead to significant changes in membrane thickness and resilience to high temperatures. (4) The asymmetric mycomembrane presents a phase transition from a disordered outer leaflet to an ordered inner leaflet.

      Strengths:

      The authors take a stepwise approach to increasing the membrane's complexity and highlight the limitations of each approach. A case in point is the use of supraphysiological temperatures of 333 K or higher in some simulations. Overall, this is a very important piece of work for the mycobacterial field and will likely help develop membrane-disrupting small molecules and provide important insights into lipid-lipid interactions in the mycomembrane.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors used alpha-mycolic acids only for their models. The ratios of alpha-, keto-, and methoxy-mycolic acids are well documented in the literature, and it may be worth including them in their model. Future studies can aim to address changes in the dynamic behavior of the MOM by altering this ratio, but including all three forms in the current model will be important and may alter the other major findings of the current study.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript reports all-atom molecular dynamics simulations on outer membrane of Mycobacterium tuberculosis. This is the first all-atom MD simulation of MTb outer membrane and complements the earlier studies which used coarse-grained simulation.

      Strengths:

      The simulation of outer membrane consisting of heterogeneous lipids is a challenging task and the current work is technically very sound.

      The observation about membrane heterogeneity and ordered inner leaflets vs disordered outer leaflets is a novel result from the study. This work will also facilitate other groups to work on all atom models of mycobacterial outer membrane for drug transport etc.

      Comments on revisions:

      I would like to thank the authors for addressing all the concerns and providing additional details to improve the clarity of presentation.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript titled "Dynamic Architecture of Mycobacterial Outer Membranes Revealed by All-Atom 1 Simulations", Brown et al describe outcomes of all-atom simulation of a model outer membrane of mycobacteria. This compelling study provided three key insights:

      (1) The likely conformation of the unusually long chain alpha-branched beta-methoxy fatty acids, mycolic acids in the mycomembrane, to be the extended U or Z type rather than the compacted W-type. (2) Outer leaflet lipids such as PDIM and PAT provide regional vertical heterogeneity and disorder in the mycomembrane that is otherwise prevented in a mycolic acid-only bilayer. (3) Removal of specific lipid classes from the symmetric membrane systems leads to significant changes in membrane thickness and resilience to high temperatures.

      In addition to the three key insights, we would like to add one more; (4) asymmetric mycomembrane presents a phase transition from a disordered outer leaflet to an ordered inner leaflet.

      Strengths:

      The authors take a step-wise approach in building the complexity of the membrane and highlight the limitations of each of the approaches. A case in point is the use of supraphysiological temperature of 333 K or even higher temperatures for some of the simulations. Overall, this is a very important piece of work for the mycobacterial field, and will help in the development of membrane-disrupting small molecules and provide important insights for lipid-lipid interactions in the mycomembrane.

      We appreciate Reviewer’s positive view on our work.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors used alpha-mycolic acids only for their models. The ratios of alpha, keto, and methoxy-mycolic acids are known in the literature, and it may be worth including these in their model. Future studies can be aimed at addressing changes in the dynamic behavior of the MOM by altering this ratio, but the inclusion of all three forms in the current model will be important and may alter the other major findings of the current study.

      We agree that adjusting the ratios of mycolates may impact the dynamic behavior of the MOM. However, including various ratios of these lipids would require much work and introduce unnecessary complexity to our model; believe or not, the current work took more than 3 years. Investigations into the effects of mycolate structure in the MOM would be interesting and suitable for future studies.

      (2) The findings from the 14 different symmetric membrane systems developed with the removal of one complex lipid at a time are very interesting but have not been analysed/discussed at length in the current manuscript. I find many interesting insights from Figures S3 and S5, which I find missing in the manuscript. These are as follows:

      (a) Loss of PDIM resulted in reduced membrane thickness. This is a very important finding given that loss of PDIM can be a spontaneous phenomenon in Mtb cultures in vitro and that this is driven by increased nutrient uptake by PDIM-deficient bacilli (Domenech and Reed, 2009 Microbiology). While the latter is explained by the enhanced solute uptake by several PE/PPE transporter systems in the absence of PDIM (Wang et al, Science 2020), the findings presented by Brown et al could be very important in this context. A discussion on these aspects would be beneficial for the mycobacterial community.

      Following Reviewer’s suggestion, we have added the following to the Discussion section.

      “The outer leaflet symmetric bilayers, comprised of trehalose-derived glycolipids and PDIMs, reveal PDIM-dependent thickness. As observed in both symmetric outer leaflet systems and asymmetric systems, PDIM migrates to the bilayer midplane, causing the upper leaflet to bulge and increasing the overall thickness. Reduced thickness in the systems lacking PDIM, an important virulence factor for Mtb, may allow for higher nutrient uptake. This corroborates a 2009 study in which Domenech and Reed found a correlation between PDIM absence in vitro and attenuated virulence (Domenech and Reed, 2009).”

      (b) I find it interesting that loss of PAT or DAT does not change membrane thickness (Figure S3). While both PAT and PDIM can migrate to the interleaflet space, loss of PDIM and PAT has a different impact on membrane thickness. It is worth explaining what the likely interactions are that shape membrane thickness in the case of the modelled MOM.

      We have added the following to the section titled “Outer leaflet lipids drive unexpected membrane heterogeneity and softness of the Mycomembrane”.

      “Although PAT also migrates to the bilayer midplane, the PAT-deficient bilayers did not exhibit reduced thickness as the PDIM-deficient thickness did (Supporting Information Table S1). This may be due to fewer PAT than PDIM moving to the bilayer midplane. In the All_Lipids systems, PDIM migrates first, bulging the upper leaflet and reducing lipid headgroup crowding (Supporting Information Figs. S5, S6). In this slightly less crowded environment, hydrophobic forces from PAT’s tails overcome the hydrophilic forces from the trehalose headgroup, causing some PATs to move deeper into the hydrophobic region.”

      (c) Figure S5: Is the presence of SGL driving PDIM and PAT to migrate to the inter-leaflet space? Again, a discussion on major lipid-lipid interactions driving these lipid migrations across the membrane thickness would be useful.

      We have added the following to the section titled “Outer leaflet lipids drive unexpected membrane heterogeneity and softness of the Mycomembrane”.

      “Additionally, in SGL-deficient bilayers, fewer PDIMs and PATs move to the bilayer midplane. This may be due to the highly methylated lipid tails of SGL. When present in the bilayer, these methyl groups may disrupt lipid packing and increase fluidity, allowing more PDIMs to move into the hydrophobic region. Supporting Information Figure S8 shows the average lipid order parameter along each lipid tail for all outer leaflet symmetric systems. Without SGL, lipid tails are consistently more ordered, supporting the notion that SGL’s methylated tails are disrupting lipid packing. Further studies are necessary to investigate the effect of glycolipid-deficient compositions on the dynamic properties of the asymmetric MOM.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript reports all-atom molecular dynamics simulations on the outer membrane of Mycobacterium tuberculosis. This is the first all-atom MD simulation of the MTb outer membrane and complements the earlier studies, which used coarse-grained simulation.

      The Reviewer is correct in that this is the first MD simulation of the Mtb outer membrane with diverse lipide types.

      Strengths:

      The simulation of the outer membrane consisting of heterogeneous lipids is a challenging task, and the current work is technically very sound. The observation about membrane heterogeneity and ordered inner leaflets vs disordered outer leaflets is a novel result from the study. This work will also facilitate other groups to work on all-atom models of mycobacterial outer membrane for drug transport, etc.

      We appreciate Reviewer’s positive view on our work.

      Weaknesses:

      Beyond a challenging simulation study, the current manuscript only provides qualitative explanations on the unusual membrane structure of MTb and does not demonstrate any practical utility of the all-atom membrane simulation. It will be difficult for the general biology community to appreciate the significance of the work, based on the manuscript in its current form, because of the high content of technical details and limited evidence on the utility of the work.

      Major Points:

      (1) The simulation by Basu et al (Phys Chem Chem Phys 2024) has studied drug transports through mycolic acid monolayers. Since the authors of the current study have all atom models of MTb outer membrane, they should carry out drug transport simulations and compare them to the outer membranes of other bacteria through which drugs can permeate. In the current manuscript, it is only discussed in lines 388-392. Can the disruption of MA cyclopropanation be simulated to show its effect on membrane structure?

      We acknowledge the potential for simulations of drug transport through our MOM model. However, we believe with the current timescale, these simulations may be better suited for a coarse-grained model of the MOM. We plan to do this in the future, but it is out of the scope of the current study. We have added the following to the Discussion section to address this point.

      “Additionally, coarse-grained models of the outer membrane could aid in drug-transport studies, potentially revealing energetic pathways by which novel antibiotics penetrate the complex cell envelope over larger timescales.”

      (2) In line 277, the authors mention about 6 simulations which mimic lipid knockout strains. The results of these simulations, specifically the outcomes of in silico knockout of lipids, are not described in detail.

      We have added the following to the Discussion section to show the effect of glycolipid composition on the deuterium order parameter.

      “The outer leaflet symmetric bilayers, comprised of trehalose-derived glycolipids and PDIMs, reveal PDIM-dependent thickness. As observed in both symmetric outer leaflet systems and asymmetric systems, PDIM migrates to the bilayer midplane, causing the upper leaflet to bulge and increasing the overall thickness. Reduced thickness in the systems lacking PDIM, an important virulence factor for Mtb, may allow for higher nutrient uptake. This corroborates a 2009 study in which Domenech and Reed found a correlation between PDIM absence in vitro and attenuated virulence (Domenech and Reed, 2009). Although PAT also migrates to the bilayer midplane, the PAT-deficient bilayers did not exhibit reduced thickness as the PDIM-deficient thickness did. This may be due to fewer PAT than PDIM moving to the bilayer midplane. In the All_Lipids systems, PDIM migrates first, bulging the upper leaflet and reducing lipid headgroup crowding. In this slightly less crowded environment, hydrophobic forces from PAT’s tails overcome the hydrophilic forces from the trehalose headgroup, causing some PATs to move deeper into the hydrophobic region. Additionally, in SGL-deficient bilayers, fewer PDIMs and PATs move to the bilayer midplane. This may be due to the highly methylated lipid tails of SGL. When present in the bilayer, these methyl groups may disrupt lipid packing and increase fluidity, allowing more PDIMs to move into the hydrophobic region. Supporting Information Figure S8 shows the average lipid order parameter along each lipid tail for all outer leaflet symmetric systems. Without SGL, lipid tails are consistently more ordered, supporting the notion that SGL’s methylated tails are disrupting lipid packing. Further studies are necessary to investigate the effect of glycolipid-deficient compositions on the dynamic properties of the asymmetric MOM.”

      (3) Figure 5 shows PDIM and PAT-driven lipid redistribution, which is a significant novel observation from the study. However, comparison of 3B and 3D shows that at 313K, the movement of the PDIM head group is much less. Since MD simulations are sensitive to random initial seeds, repeated simulations with different random seeds and initial structures may be necessary.

      The difference in headgroup movement at different temperatures can be attributed to higher kinetics at 333K, causing the lipids to move faster. The relatively slow speed and computational load of running all-atom simulations make it difficult to simulate these lower temperatures on the timescales necessary to observe full aggregation of PDIM. However, CG simulations may be sufficient to sample these events. We have addressed this by adding the following to the Results section.

      “We also observed a stark difference in the speed with which PDIM and PAT migrate to the center at different temperatures. PDIM molecules do not fully aggregate at the membrane center until about 1500 ns at 313K, whereas they accumulate within 500 ns at 333K (Fig. 5B, 5D). This can be attributed to higher kinetics at 333K, causing the lipids to move faster. Coarse-grained models may be sufficient to observe full aggregation of hydrophobic species at the membrane midplane at lower temperatures.”

      (4) As per Figure 1, in the initial structure, the head group of PAT should be on the membrane surface, similar to TDM and TMM, while PDIM is placed towards the interior of the outer membrane. However, Figure 5 shows that at t=0, PAT has the same Z position as PDIM. It will be necessary to provide Z-position Figures for TMM and TDM to understand the difference. Is it really dependent on the chemical structure of the lipid moiety or the initial position of the lipid in the bilayer at the beginning of the simulation?

      We have added the following to the Results section to address this comment.

      “In all symmetric outer leaflet simulations, PDIM and PAT sit just below the headgroups of other lipids at the start of production, due to our equilibration scheme. During the last step of equilibration, lipid headgroups are allowed to move freely, which initiates migration to the membrane center and causes the slight difference between PDIM/PAT and the other lipids’ headgroup positions (Supporting Information Figs. S5, S6).”

      Minor Point:

      In view of the complexity of the system undertaken for the study, the manuscript in its current form may not be informative for readers who are not experts in molecular simulations.

      This work represents the first atomistic simulation of the mycobacterial outer membrane. While not perfectly realistic, as it does not include arabinogalactan or peptidoglycan, it does have extensive descriptions of each lipid simulated and their relevance to the survival of Mtb.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The interface to build and set up all atom coordinates of the outer membrane of Mycobacterium tuberculosis should be available from CHARMM-GUI.

      The current manuscript is meant as a proof of concept for simulating bilayers composed of complex mycobacterial lipids. The current study itself took more than 3 years. Since we have developed CHARMM-GUI, the lipids described in this paper may be available in CHARMM-GUI in the future, but that is not the aim of this paper. Initial structures and final 50 ns of the simulations are available to readers (see Data Acknowledgements).

      (2) The difference between symmetric and asymmetric systems in Figures 2K and 2L is not at all clear, neither in the legend to the figure nor in the manuscript text. The color codes in 2K and 2L should be described with clarity. The authors should provide schematic diagrams similar to Figure 1 to explain each of the simulation systems they are discussing. This will clarify the difference between symmetric and asymmetric systems.

      We have updated Figure 1 to clearly show which systems are symmetric and which are asymmetric.

      (3) The first two sub-sections of the RESULT section discuss symmetric mycolic acid bilayers. The observations on thermal resilience and phase transitions are interesting, but the relevance of symmetric mycolic acid bilayers (Figures 3 & 4) to the major focus of the current manuscript (i.e., outer membrane consisting of multiple lipids) is not clear.

      Most previous simulations only focused on monolayers of mycolic acids. Our symmetric bilayers are used to provide reasonable APL and system compositions for the asymmetric membrane, so as to avoid area mismatch. We can also gain insights into how these unique lipids behave in symmetric bilayers, which may be useful to scientists aiming to study simpler membranes in the context of drug permeation or pore formation. These points have been addressed in the following addition to the Introduction section.

      “We have also used the equilibrated symmetric bilayers to estimate reasonable areas per lipid and facilitate the modeling of stable asymmetric systems.”

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important study introduces an innovative synthetic nanobody approach to probe the function of the bacterial SMC complex. The authors provide convincing evidence that these nanobodies target the coiled-coil region of the SMC subunit and demonstrate that this region is critical for SMC function in vivo. Overall, the work is significant for the fields of genome organization, SMC protein biology, synthetic biology, and bacterial cell biology.

      [Editors' note: this paper was reviewed by Review Commons.]

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Gosselin et al., develop a method to target protein activity using synthetic single-domain nanobodies (sybodies). They screen a library of sybodies using ribosome/ phage display generated against bacillus Smc-ScpAB complex. Specifically, they use an ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of SMC so as to identify sybodies that will potentially disrupt Smc-ScpAB activity. They next screen their library in vivo, using growth defects in rich media as a read-out for Smc activity perturbation. They identify 14 sybodies that mirror smc deletion phenotype including defective growth in fast-growth conditions, as well as chromosome segregation defects. The authors use a clever approach by making chimeras between bacillus and S. pnuemoniae Smc to narrow-down to specific regions within the bacillus Smc coiled-coil that are likely targets of the sybodies. Using ATPase assays, they find that the sybodies either impede DNA-stimulated ATP hydrolysis or hyperactivate ATP hydrolysis (even in the absence of DNA). The authors propose that the sybodies may likely be locking Smc-ScpAB in the "closed" or "open" state via interaction with the specific coiled-coil region on Smc. I have a few comments that the authors should consider:

      Major comments:

      (1) Lack of direct in vitro binding measurements:<br /> The authors do not provide measurements of sybody affinities, binding/ unbinding kinetics, stoichiometries with respect to Smc-ScpAB. Additionally, do the sybodies preferentially interact with Smc in ATP/ DNA-bound state? And do the sybodies affect the interaction of ScpAB with SMC?<br /> It is understandable that such measurements for 14 sybodies is challenging, and not essential for this study. Nonetheless, it is informative to have biochemical characterization of sybody interaction with the Smc-ScpAB complex for at least 1-2 candidate sybodies described here.

      (2) Many modes of sybody binding to Smc are plausible<br /> The authors provide an elaborate discussion of sybodies locking the Smc-ScpAB complex in open/ closed states. However, in the absence of structural support, the mechanistic inferences may need to be tempered. For example, is it also not possible for the sybodies to bind the inner interface of the coiled-coil, resulting in steric hinderance to coiled-coil interactions. It is also possible that sybody interaction disrupts ScpAB interaction (as data ruling this possibility out has not been provided). Thus, other potential mechanisms would be worth considering/ discussing. In this direction, did AlphaFold reveal any potential insights into putative binding locations?

      (3) Sybody expression in vivo<br /> Have the authors estimated sybody expression in vivo? Are they all expressed to similar levels?

      (4) Sybodies should phenocopy ATP hydrolysis mutant of Smc<br /> The sybodies were screened against an ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of Smc, with the rationale that these sybodies would interfere this step of the Smc duty cycle. Does the expression of the sybodies in vivo phenocopy the ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of Smc? Could the authors consider any phenotypic read-outs that can indicate whether the sybody action results in an smc-null effect or specifically an ATP hydrolysis deficient effect?

      Significance:

      Overall, this is an impressive study that uses an elegant strategy to find inhibitors of protein activity in vivo. The manuscript is clearly written and the experiments are logical and well-designed. The findings from the study will be significant to the broad field of genome biology, synthetic biology and also SMC biology. Specifically, the coiled coil domain of SMC proteins have been proposed to be of high functional value. The authors have elegantly identified key coiled-coil regions that may be important for function, and parallelly exhibited potential of the use of synthetic sybody/designed binders for inhibition of protein activity.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Structural Maintenance of Chromosome proteins (SMCs), a family of proteins found in almost all organisms, are organizers of DNA. They accomplish this by a process known as loop extrusion, wherein double-stranded DNA is actively reeled in and extruded into loops. Although SMCs are known to have several DNA binding regions, the exact mechanism by which they facilitate loop extrusion is not understood but is believed to entail large conformational changes. There are currently several models for loop extrusion, including one wherein the coiled coil (CC) arms open, but there is a lack of insightful experimentation and analysis to confirm any of these models. The work presented aims to provide much-needed new tools to investigate these questions: conformation-selective sybodies (synthetic nanobodies) that are likely to alter the CC opening and closing reactions.

      The authors produced, isolated, and expressed sybodies that specifically bound to Bacillus subtilis Smc-ScpAB. Using chimeric Smc constructs, where the coiled coils were partly replaced with the corresponding sequences from Streptococcus pneumoniae, the authors revealed that the isolated sybodies all targeted the same 4N CC element of the Smc arms. This region is likely disrupted by the sybodies either by stopping the arms from opening (correctly) or forcing them to stay open (enough). Disrupting these functional elements is suggested to cause the Smc-dependent chromosome organization lethal phenotype, implying that arm opening and closing is a key regulatory feature of bacterial Smc-ScpAB.

      Significance:

      The authors present a new method for trapping bacterial Smc's in certain conformations using synthetic antibodies. Using these antibodies, they have pinpointed the (previously suggested) 4N region of the coiled coils as an essential site for the opening and closing of the Smc coiled coil arms and that hindering these reactions blocks Smc-driven chromosomal organization. The work has important implications for how we might elucidate the mechanism of DNA loop extrusion by SMC complexes.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Gosselin et al. use the sybody technology to study effects of in vivo inhibition of the Bacillus subtilis SMC complex. Smc proteins are central DNA binding elements of several complexes that are vital for chromosome dynamics in almost all organisms. Sybodies are selected from three different libraries of the single domain antibodies, using the "transition state" mutant Smc. They identify 14 such mutant sybodies that are lethal when expressed in vivo, because they prevent proper function of Smc. The authors present evidence suggesting that all obtained sybodies bind to a coiled-coil region close to the Smc "neck", and thereby interfere with the Smc activity cycle, as evidenced by defective ATPase activity when Smc is bound to DNA.<br /> The study is well done and presented and shows that the strategy is very potent in finding a means to quickly turn off a protein's function in vivo, much quicker than depleting the protein.

      The authors also draw conclusions on the molecular mode of action of the SMC complex. The provide a number of suggestive experiments, but in my view mostly indirect evidence for such mechanism.

      My main criticism is that the authors have used a single - and catalytically trapped form of SMC. They speculate why they only obtain sybodies from one library, and then only identify sybodies that bind to a rather small part of the large Smc protein. While the approach is definitely valuable, it is biassed towards sybodies that bind to Smc in a quite special way, it seems. Using wild type Smc would be interesting, to make more robust statements about the action of sybodies potentially binding to different parts of Smc.

      Line 105: Alternatively, the other libraries did not produce good binders or these sybodies were 106 not stably expressed in B. subtilis. This could be tested using Western blotting - I am assuming sybody antibodies are commercially available. However, this test is not important for the overall study, it would just clarify a minor point.

      Fig. 2B: is odd to count Spo0J foci per cells, as it is clear from the images that several origins must be present within the fluorescent foci. I am fine with the "counting" method, as the images show there is a clear segregation defect when sybodies are expressed, I believe the authors should state, though, that this is not a replication block, but failure to segregate origins.

      Testing binding sites of sybodies to the SMC complex is done in an indirect manner, by using chimeric Smc constructs. I am surprised why the authors have not used in vitro crosslinking: the authors can purify Smc, and mass spectrometry analyses would identify sites where sybodies are crosslinked to Smc. Again, I am fine with the indirect method, but the authors make quite concrete statements on binding based on non-inhibition of chimeric Smc; I can see alternative explanations why a chimera may not be targeted.

      Smc-disrupting sybodies affect the ATPase activity in one of two ways. Again, rather indirect experiments. This leads to the point Revealing Smc arm dynamics through synthetic binders in the discussion. The authors are quite careful in stating that their experiments are suggestive for a certain mode of action of Smc, which is warranted.

      In line 245, they state More broadly, the study demonstrates how synthetic binders can trap, stabilize, or block transient conformations of active chromatin-associated machines, providing a powerful means to probe their mechanisms in living cells. This is off course a possible scenario for the use of sybodies, but the study does not really trap Smc in a transient conformation, at least this is not clearly shown.

      Overall, it is an interesting study, with a well-presented novel technology, and a limited gain of knowledge on SMC proteins.

      Significance:

      The work describes the gaining and use of single-binder antibodies (sybodies) to interfere with the function of proteins in bacteria. Using this technology for the SMC complex, the authors demonstrate that they can obtain a significant of binders that target a defined region is SMC and thereby interfere with the ATPase cycle.

      The study does not present a strong gain of knowledge of the mode of action of the SMC complex.

    5. Author response:

      General Statements

      First, we would like to thank the editor at Review Commons for the efficient handling of our manuscript. We also apologize for our delayed response.

      We would like to thank all three reviewers for their careful evaluation of our work and their constructive feedback, which will provide a valuable basis for improving the figures and the text, as described below. We expect to be able to complete the revision following the plan described below quickly.

      We would like to note that the reviewer reports (Rev. #1 and Rev. #3) made us realize that the manuscript text was misleading on the following point. Although we used the purified ATP hydrolysis–deficient Smc protein for sybody isolation, this does not restrict the selection to a specific conformation. As described in detail in Vazquez-Nunez et al. (Figure 5), this mutant displays the ATP-engaged conformation only in a smaller fraction of complexes (~25% in the presence of ATP and DNA), consistent with prior in vivo observations reported by Diebold-Durand et al. (Figure 5). Rather than limiting the selection to a particular configuration, our aim was to reduce the prevalence of the predominant rod state in order to broaden the range of conformations represented during sybody selection. Consistent with this interpretation, only a small number of isolated sybodies show strong conformation-specific binding in the presence or absence of ATP/DNA, as observed by ELISA (now included in the manuscript). We will revise the manuscript text accordingly to clarify this point.

      Description of the planned revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Gosselin et al., develop a method to target protein activity using synthetic single-domain nanobodies (sybodies). They screen a library of sybodies using ribosome/ phage display generated against bacillus Smc-ScpAB complex. Specifically, they use an ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of SMC so as to identify sybodies that will potentially disrupt Smc-ScpAB activity. They next screen their library in vivo, using growth defects in rich media as a read-out for Smc activity perturbation. They identify 14 sybodies that mirror smc deletion phenotype including defective growth in fast-growth conditions, as well as chromosome segregation defects. The authors use a clever approach by making chimeras between bacillus and S. pnuemoniae Smc to narrow-down to specific regions within the bacillus Smc coiled-coil that are likely targets of the sybodies. Using ATPase assays, they find that the sybodies either impede DNA-stimulated ATP hydrolysis or hyperactivate ATP hydrolysis (even in the absence of DNA). The authors propose that the sybodies may likely be locking Smc-ScpAB in the "closed" or "open" state via interaction with the specific coiled-coil region on Smc. I have a few comments that the authors should consider:

      Major comments:

      (1) Lack of direct in vitro binding measurements:

      The authors do not provide measurements of sybody affinities, binding/ unbinding kinetics, stoichiometries with respect to Smc-ScpAB. Additionally, do the sybodies preferentially interact with Smc in ATP/ DNA-bound state? And, do the sybodies affect the interaction of ScpAB with SMC?

      It is understandable that such measurements for 14 sybodies is challenging, and not essential for this study. Nonetheless, it is informative to have biochemical characterization of sybody interaction with the Smc-ScpAB complex for at least 1-2 candidate sybodies described here.

      We agree with the reviewer that adding such data would be reassuring and that obtaining solid data using purified components is not easy even for a smaller selection of sybodies. We have data that show direct binding of Smc to sybodies by various methods including ELISA, pull-downs and by biophysical methods (GCI). Initially, we omitted these data from the manuscript as we are convinced that the mapping data obtained with chimeric SMC proteins is more definitive and relevant.  During the revision we will incorporate the ELISA data showing direct binding and also indicating a lack of preference for a specific state of Smc.

      (2) Many modes of sybody binding to Smc are plausible

      The authors provide an elaborate discussion of sybodies locking the Smc-ScpAB complex in open/ closed states. However, in the absence of structural support, the mechanistic inferences may need to be tempered. For example, is it also not possible for the sybodies to bind the inner interface of the coiled-coil, resulting in steric hinderance to coiled-coil interactions. It is also possible that sybody interaction disrupts ScpAB interaction (as data ruling this possibility out has not been provided). Thus, other potential mechanisms would be worth considering/ discussing. In this direction, did AlphaFold reveal any potential insights into putative binding locations?

      We have attempted to map the binding by structure prediction, however, so far, even the latest versions of AlphaFold are not able to clearly delineate the binding interface. Indeed, many ways of binding are possible, including disruption of ScpAB interaction. However, since the main binding site is located on the SMC coiled coils, the later scenario would likely be an indirect consequence of altered coiled coil configuration, consistent with our current interpretation.

      (3) Sybody expression in vivo

      Have the authors estimated sybody expression in vivo? Are they all expressed to similar levels?

      We have tagged selected sybodies with gfp and performed live cell imaging. This showed that they are all roughly equally expressed and that they localize as foci in the cell presumably by binding to Smc complexes loaded onto the chromosome at ParB/parS sites. We will include this data in the revised version of the manuscript.

      (4) Sybodies should phenocopy ATP hydrolysis mutant of Smc

      The sybodies were screened against an ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of Smc, with the rationale that these sybodies would interfere this step of the Smc duty cycle. Does the expression of the sybodies in vivo phenocopy the ATP hydrolysis deficient mutant of Smc? Could the authors consider any phenotypic read-outs that can indicate whether the sybody action results in an smc-null effect or specifically an ATP hydrolysis deficient effect?

      As eluded to above, we think that our selection gave rise to sybodies that bind various, possibly multiple Smc conformations. Consistent with this idea, the phenotypes are similar to null mutant rather than the ATP-hydrolysis defective EQ mutant, which display even more severe growth phenotypes. We will add the following notes to the text:

      “These conditions favour ATP-engaged particles alongside the typically predominant ATP-disengaged rod-shaped state (add Vazquez Nunez et al., 2021).”

      “ELISA data confirm that nearly all clones bind Smc-ScpAB; however, their binding shows little or no dependence on the presence of ATP or DNA.”

      Minor comments:

      (1) It was surprising that no sybodies were found that could target both bacillus and spneu Smc. For example, sybodies targeting the head regions of Smc that might work in a more universal manner. Could the authors comment on the coverage of the sybodies across the protein structure?

      It is rather common that sybodies (like antibodies and nanobodies) exhibit strong affinity differences between highly conserved proteins (> 90 % identity). The underlying reasons for such strong discrimination are i) location of less conserved residues primarily at the target protein surface and ii) the large interaction interface between sybody and target which offers multiple vulnerabilities for disturbance, in particular through bulky side chains resulting in steric clashes. Another frequently observed phenomenon is sybody binding to a dominant epitope, which also often applies to nanobodies and antibodies. A great example for this are the dominant epitopes on SARS-CoV-2 RBDs.

      (2) Growth curves (Fig. S3) show a large jump in recovery in growth under sybody induction conditions. Could the authors address this observation here and in the text?

      We suppose that this recovery represents suppressor mutants and/or (more likely) improved growth in the absence of functional Smc during nutrient limitation (see Gruber et al., 2013 and Wang et al., 2013). We will add this statement to the text.

      (3) L41- Sentence correction: Loop can be removed.

      Ah, yes, sorry for this confusing error. Thank you.

      (4) L525 - bsuSmc 'E' :extra E can be removed.

      To do. Thank you.

      (5) References need to be properly formatted.

      To do. Thank you.

      (6) The authors should add in figure legend for Fig 1i) details on representation of the purple region, and explain the grey strokes for orientation of the loop.

      To do.

      (7) How many cells were analysed in the cell biological assays? Legends should include these information.

      To Be Included.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance):

      Overall, this is an impressive study that uses an elegant strategy to find inhibitors of protein activity in vivo. The manuscript is clearly written and the experiments are logical and well-designed. The findings from the study will be significant to the broad field of genome biology, synthetic biology and also SMC biology. Specifically, the coiled coil domain of SMC proteins have been proposed to be of high functional value. The authors have elegantly identified key coiled-coil regions that may be important for function, and parallelly exhibited potential of the use of synthetic sybody/designed binders for inhibition of protein activity.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Review: "Single Domain Antibody Inhibitors Target the Coiled Coil Arms of the Bacillus subtilis SMC complex" by Ophélie Gosselin et al, Review Commons RC-2025-03280 Structural Maintenance of Chromosome proteins (SMCs), a family of proteins found in almost all organisms, are organizers of DNA. They accomplish this by a process known as loop extrusion, wherein double-stranded DNA is actively reeled in and extruded into loops. Although SMCs are known to have several DNA binding regions, the exact mechanism by which they facilitate loop extrusion is not understood but is believed to entail large conformational changes. There are currently several models for loop extrusion, including one wherein the coiled coil (CC) arms open, but there is a lack of insightful experimentation and analysis to confirm any of these models. The work presented aims to provide much-needed new tools to investigate these questions: conformation-selective sybodies (synthetic nanobodies) that are likely to alter the CC opening and closing reactions.

      The authors produced, isolated, and expressed sybodies that specifically bound to Bacillus subtilis Smc-ScpAB. Using chimeric Smc constructs, where the coiled coils were partly replaced with the corresponding sequences from Streptococcus pneumoniae, the authors revealed that the isolated sybodies all targeted the same 4N CC element of the Smc arms. This region is likely disrupted by the sybodies either by stopping the arms from opening (correctly) or forcing them to stay open (enough). Disrupting these functional elements is suggested to cause the Smc-dependent chromosome organization lethal phenotype, implying that arm opening and closing is a key regulatory feature of bacterial Smc-ScpAB.

      In summary, the authors present a new method for trapping bacterial Smc's in certain conformations using synthetic antibodies. Using these antibodies, they have pinpointed the (previously suggested) 4N region of the coiled coils as an essential site for the opening and closing of the Smc coiled coil arms and that hindering these reactions blocks Smc-driven chromosomal organization. The work has important implications for how we might elucidate the mechanism of DNA loop extrusion by SMC complexes.

      Some specific comments:

      Line 75: "likely stabilizing otherwise rare intermediates of the conformational cycle." - sorry, why is that being concluded? Why not stabilizing longer-lived oncformations?

      We will clarify this statement!

      Line 89: Sorry, possibly our lack of understanding: why first ribosome and then phage display?

      Ribosome display offers to screen around 10^12 sybodies per selection round (technically unrestricted library size), while for phage display, the library size is restricted to around 10^9 sybodies due to the fact that production of a phage library requires transformation of the phagemid plasmid into E. coli, thereby introducing a diversity bottleneck. This is why the sybody platform starts off with ribosome display. It switches to phage display from round 2 onwards because the output of the initial round of ribosome display is around 10^6 sybodies, which can be easily transferred into the phage display format. Phage display is used to minimize selection biases. For more information, please consult the original sybody paper (PMID: 29792401).

      Line 100: Why was only lethality selected? Less severe phenotypes not clear enough?

      Yes, colony size is more difficult to score robustly, as the sizes of individual transformant colonies can vary quite widely. The number of isolated sybodies was at the limit of further analysis.

      Line 106: Could it be tested somehow if convex and concave library sybodies fold in Bs?

      We did not focus on the non-functional sybody candidates and only sybodies of the loop library turned out to cause functional consequences at the cellular level. Notably, we will include gfp-imaging showing that non-lethal sybodies are expressed to similar levels that toxic sybodies. Given the identical scaffold of concave and loop sybodies (they only differ in their CDR3 length), we expect that the concave sybodies fold in the cytoplasm of B. subtilis. For the convex sybodies exhibiting a different scaffold, this will be tested.

      Line 125: Could Pxyl be repressed by glucose?

      To our knowledge and experience, repression by glucose (catabolite repression) does not work well in this context in B. subtilis.

      Line 131: The SMC replacement strain is a cool experiment and removes a lot of doubts!

      Thank you! (we agree).

      Line 141: The mapping is good and looks reliable, but looks and feels like a tour de force? Of course, some cryo-EM would have been lovely (lines 228-229 understood, it has been tried!).

      Yes, we have made several attempts at structural biology. Unfortunately, Smc-ScpAB is not well suited for cryo-EM in our hands and crystallography with Smc fragments and sybodies did not yield well-diffracting crystals.

      Line 179: Mmmh. Do we not assume DNA binding on top of the dimerised heads to open the CC (clamp)?

      We will clarify the text here.

      Line 187: Having sybodies that presumably keep the CC together (closing) and some that do not allow them to come together correctly (opening) is really cool and probably important going forward.

      Thank you!

      Figure 1 Ai is not very colour-blind friendly.

      We are sorry for this oversight. We will try to make the color scheme more inclusive. Thank you for the notification.

      Optional: did the authors see any spontaneous mutations emerge that bypass the lethal phenotype of sybody expression?

      No, we did not observe spontaneous mutations suppressing the phenotype, possibly due to the limited number of cell generations observed. We tried to avoid suppressors by limiting growth, but this may indeed be a good future approach for further fine map the binding sites and to obtain insights into the mechanism of inhibition.

      Optional: we think it would be nice to try some biochemical experiment with BMOE/cysteine-crosslinked B. subtilis Smc in the mid-region (4N or next to it) of the Smc coiled coils to try to further strengthen the story. Some of the authors are experts in this technique and strains might already exist?

      We have indeed tried to study the impact of sybody binding on Smc conformation by cysteine cross-linking. However, we were not convinced by the results and thus prefer not to draw any conclusions from them. We will add a corresponding note to the text.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance):

      The authors present a new method for trapping bacterial Smc's in certain conformations using synthetic antibodies. Using these antibodies, they have pinpointed the (previously suggested) 4N region of the coiled coils as an essential site for the opening and closing of the Smc coiled coil arms and that hindering these reactions blocks Smc-driven chromosomal organization. The work has important implications for how we might elucidate the mechanism of DNA loop extrusion by SMC complexes.

      Thank you!

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Gosselin et al. use the sybody technology to study effects of in vivo inhibition oft he Bacillus subtilis SMC complex. Smc proteins are central DNA binding elements of several complexes that are vital for chromosome dynamics in almost all organisms. Sybodies are selected from three different libraries of the single domain antibodies, using the „transition state" mutant Smc. They identify 14 such mutant sybodies that are lethal when expressed in vivo, because they prevent proper function of Smc. The authors present evidence suggesting that all obtained sybodies bind to a coiled-coil region close to the Smc „neck", and thereby interfere with the Smc activity cycle, as evidenced by defective ATPase activity when Smc is bound to DNA.

      The study is well done and presented and shows that the strategy is very potent in finding a means to quickly turn off a protein's function in vivo, much quicker than depleting the protein.

      The authors also draw conclusions on the molecular mode of action of the SMC complex. The provide a number of suggestive experiments, but in my view mostly indirect evidence for such mechanism.

      My main criticism ist hat the authors have used a single - and catalytically trapped form of SMC. They speculate why they only obtain sybodies from one library, and then only idenfity sybodies that bind to a rather small part oft he large Smc protein. While the approach is definitely valuable, it is biassed towards sybodies that bind to Smc in a quite special way, it seems. Using wild type Smc would be interesting, to make more robust statements about the action of sybodies potentially binding to different parts of Smc.

      As explained above, we are quite confident the Smc ATPase mutation did not bias the selection in an obvious way. The surprising bias towards coiled coil binding sites has likely other explanations, as they likely form a preferred epitope recognized by sybodies.

      Line 105: Alternatively, the other libraries did not produce good binders or these sybodies were 106 not stably expressed in B. subtilis. This could be tested using Western blotting - I am assuming sybody antibodies are commercially available. However, this test is not important for the overall study, it would just clarify a minor point.

      While there are antibody fragments available to augment the size of sybodies (PMID: 40108246), these recognize 3D-epitopes and are thus not suited for Western blotting. We did not follow up on the negative results much, but would like to point out again that there are several biases that likely emerge for the same reason (bias to library, bias to coiled coil binding site). If correct, then likely few other sybodies are effectively lethal in B. subtilis, with the exception of the ones isolated and characterized. We have added this notion to the manuscript. We have also tested the expression of non-lethal sybodies by gfp-tagging and imaging. These results will be included in the revision.

      Fig. 2B: is is odd to count Spo0J foci per cells, as it is clear from the images that several origins must be present within the fluorescent foci. I am fine with the „counting" method, as the images show there is a clear segregation defect when sybodies are expressed, I believe the authors should state, though, that this is not a replication block, but failure to segregate origins.

      We agree that this is an important point and will add a corresponding comment to the text.

      Testing binding sites of sybodies tot he SMC complex is done in an indirect manner, by using chimeric Smc constructs. I am surprised why the authors have not used in vitro crosslinking: the authors can purify Smc, and mass spectrometry analyses would identify sites where sybodies are crosslinked to Smc. Again, I am fine with the indirect method, but the authors make quite concrete statements on binding based on non-inhibition of chimeric Smc; I can see alternative explanations why a chimera may not be targeted.

      We have made several attempts of testing direct binding with mixed outcomes and decided to not include those results in the light of the stronger and more relevant in vivo mapping. However, we will add ELISA results and briefly discuss grating coupled interferometry (GCI) data and pull-downs.

      Smc-disrupting sybodies affect the ATPase activity in one of two ways. Again, rather indirect experiments. This leads to the point Revealing Smc arm dynamics through synthetic binders in the discussion. The authors are quite careful in stating that their experiments are suggestive for a certain mode of action of Smc, which is warranted.

      In line 245, they state More broadly, the study demonstrates how synthetic binders can trap, stabilize, or block transient conformations of active chromatin-associated machines, providing a powerful means to probe their mechanisms in living cells. This is off course a possible scenario for the use of sybodies, but the study does not really trap Smc in a transient conformation, at least this is not clearly shown.

      We agree and will carefully rephrase this statement. Thank you.

      Overall, it is an interesting study, with a well-presented novel technology, and a limited gain of knowledge on SMC proteins.

      We respectfully disagree with the last point, since our unique results highlight the importance of the Smc coiled coils, which are otherwise largely neglected in the SMC literature, likely (at least in part) due the mild effect of single point mutations on coiled coil dynamics.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      The work describes the gaining and use of single-binder antibodies (sybodies) to interfere with the function of proteins in bacteria. Using this technology for the SMC complex, the authors demonstrate that they can obtain a significant of binders that target a defined region is SMC and thereby interfere with the ATPase cycle.

      The study does not present a strong gain of knowledge of the mode of action of the SMC complex.

      As pointed out above, we respectfully disagree with this assertion.

      Description of analyses that authors prefer not to carry out

      As pointed out above, there are a few minor points that we prefer not to experimentally address. In particular, we do not consider it as necessary to determine the expression levels of sybodies which were non-inhibitory. We also wish to note that we attempted to obtain structural additional biochemical data and to that end performed cryo-EM, crystallography and cysteine cross-linking experiments. Unfortunately, we did not obtain sybody complex structures and the cross-linking data were unfortunately not conclusive.  We also wish to note that the first author has finished her PhD and left the lab, which limits our capacity to add additional experiments. However, as the reviewers also pointed out, the main conclusions are well supported by the data already.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This paper's biochemical studies of the mechanisms underlying paradoxical activation of RAF family kinases by small-molecule inhibitors have uncovered some important new features of this process by establishing a role for the N-terminal acidic (NtA) motif and showing that CRAF and ARAF can also exhibit paradoxical activation. However, there are substantial criticisms that can be made regarding the data analysis and the evidence for the authors' new model that paradoxical activation does not rely on negative allostery is considered incomplete.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Tkacik et al describe their efforts to reconstitute and biochemically characterize ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF proteins and measure their ability to be paradoxically activated by current clinical and preclinical RAF inhibitors. Paradoxical activation of MAPK signaling is a major clinical problem plaguing current RAF inhibitors, and the mechanisms are complex and relatively poorly understood. The authors utilize their preparations of purified ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF kinase domains to measure paradoxical activation by type I and type II inhibitors, utilizing MEK protein as the substrate, and show that CRAF is activated in a similar fashion to BRAF, whereas ARAF appears resistant to activation. These data are analyzed using a simple cooperativity model with the goal of testing whether paradoxical activation involves negative cooperativity between RAF dimer binding sites, as has been previously reported. The authors conclude that it does not. They also test activation of B- and CRAF isoforms prepared in their full-length autoinhibited states and show that under the conditions of their assays, activation by inhibitors is not observed. In a particularly noteworthy part of the paper, the authors show that mutation of the N-terminal acidic (NtA) motif of ARAF and CRAF to match that of BRAF enhances paradoxical activation of CRAF and dramatically restores paradoxical activation of ARAF, which is not activated at all in its WT form, indicating a clear role for the NtA motif in the paradoxical activation mechanism. Additional experiments use mass photometry to measure BRAF dimer induction by inhibitors. The mass photometry measurements are a relatively novel way of achieving this, and the results are qualitatively consistent with previous studies that tracked BRAF dimerization in response to inhibitors using other methods. Overall, the paper establishes that WT CRAF is paradoxically activated by the same inhibitors that activate BRAF, and that ARAF contains the latent potential for activation that appears to be controlled by its NtA motif. The biochemical activation data for BRAF are qualitatively consistent with previous work.

      Strengths:

      While previous studies have put forward detailed molecular mechanisms for paradoxical activation of BRAF, comparatively little is known about the degree to which ARAF and CRAF are prone to this problem, and relatively little biochemical data of any sort are available for ARAF. Seen in this light, the current work should be considered of substantial potential significance for the RAF signaling field and for efforts to understand paradoxical activation and design new inhibitors that avoid it.

      Weaknesses:

      There are, unfortunately, some significant flaws in the data analysis and fitting of the RAF activation data that render the primary conclusion of the paper about the detailed activation mechanism, namely that it does not involve negative cooperativity between active sites, unjustified. This claim is made repeatedly throughout the manuscript, including in the title. Unfortunately, their data analysis approach is overly simplistic and does not probe this question thoroughly. This is the primary weakness of the study and should be addressed. A full biochemical modeling approach that accurately captures what is happening in the experiment needs to be applied in order for detailed inferences to be drawn about the mechanism beyond just the observation of activation.

      The authors' analysis of their RAF:MEK "monomer" paradoxical activation data (Figures 1, 3, and Tables 1, 2) suffers from two fundamental flaws that render the resulting AC50/IC50 and cooperativity (Hill) parameters essentially uninterpretable. Without explaining or justifying their choice, the authors use a two-phase cooperative binding model from GraphPad Prism to fit their activation/inhibition data. This model is intended to describe cooperative ligand binding to multiple coupled sites within a preformed receptor assembly, and does not provide an adequate description of what is happening in this complicated experiment. Specifically, it has two fundamental flaws when applied to the analysis in question:

      (a) It does not account for ligand depletion effects that occur with high-affinity drugs, and that profoundly affect the shapes of the dose-response curves, which are what are being fit

      The chosen model is one of a class of ligand-binding models that are derived by assuming that the free ligand concentration is effectively equal to the total ligand concentration. Under these conditions, binding curves have a characteristic steepness, and the presence of cooperativity can be inferred from changes in this steepness as described by a Hill coefficient. However, many RAF inhibitors, including most of the type II inhibitors in this study, bind to the dimerized forms of at least one of the RAF isoforms with ultra-high affinity in the picomolar range (particularly apparent in Figure 1 with LY inhibiting BRAF). Under these conditions, the model assumption is not valid. Instead, binding occurs in the high-affinity regime in which the drug titrates the receptor and effectively all the added drug molecules bind, so there is hardly any free ligand (see e.g. Jarmoskaite and Herschlag eLife 2020 for a full description of this "titration" regime). The shapes of the curves under these conditions reflect the total amount of RAF protein (and to some extent drug affinity), rather than the presence of cooperativity. Fitting dose response curves with the chosen model under these conditions will result in conflating binding affinity and protein concentration with cooperativity.

      (b) It does not model the RAF monomer-dimer equilibrium, which is dramatically modulated by drug binding, rendering the results RAF-concentration dependent in a manner not accounted for by the analysis.

      The chosen analysis model also fails to consider the monomer-dimer equilibrium of RAF. This has two ramifications. Since drug binding is coupled to dimerization to a very strong degree, the observed apparent affinities of drug binding (reflected in AC50 and IC50 values) are functions of the concentration of RAF molecules used in the experiment. Since dimerization affinities are likely different for ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF, the measured AC50 values also cannot be compared between isoforms. This concentration dependence is not addressed by the authors. A related issue is that the model assumes drug binding occurs to two coupled sites on preformed dimers, not to a mixture of monomers and dimers. "Cooperativity" parameters determined in this manner will reflect the shifting monomer-dimer equilibrium rather than the cooperativity within dimers. Additionally, the inhibition side of the activation/inhibition curves is driven by binding of the drug to the single remaining site on the dimer, not to two coupled sites, and so one cannot determine cooperativity values for this process in this manner.

      As a result of both of these issues, the parameters reported in the tables do not correctly reflect cooperativity and cannot be used to infer the presence or absence of negative cooperativity between RAF dimer subunits. To address these major issues, the authors would need to apply a data analysis/fitting procedure that correctly models the biochemical interactions occurring in the sample, including both the monomer-dimer equilibrium and how this equilibrium is coupled to drug binding, such as that developed in e.g., Kholodenko Cell Reports 2015. Alternatively, the authors should remove the statements claiming a lack of negative cooperativity from the manuscript and alter the title to reflect this.

      Some other points to consider

      (1) The observation that ARAF is not activated by type II inhibitors is interesting. A detailed comparison of the activation magnitudes between inhibitors and between A-, B-, and CRAF is hampered by the arbitrary baseline signal in the assay, which arises from a non-zero FRET ratio in the absence of any RAF activity. The authors might consider background correcting their data using a calibration curve constructed using MEK samples of known degrees of phosphorylation, so that they can calculate turnover numbers and fold activation values rather than an increase over baseline. This will likely reveal that the activation effects are more substantial than they appear against the high background signal.

      (2) The authors note that full-length autoinhibited 14-3-3-bound RAF monomers are not activated by type I and II inhibitors. However, since this process involves the formation of a RAF dimer from two monomers, the process would also be expected to be concentration dependent, and the authors have only investigated this at a single protein concentration. Since disassembly of the autoinhibited state must also occur before dimerization, it might be expected to be kinetically disfavored as well. Have the authors tested this?

      (3) ATP concentration modulates activation. While this is an interesting observation, some of this analysis suffers from the same issue discussed above, of not considering high-affinity binding effects. For instance, LY is not affected by ATP concentration in their data (Figure 4D), but this is easily explained as being due to its very tight binding affinity, resulting in titration of the receptor and the shape of the inhibition curve reflecting the amount of RAF kinase in the experiment and not the effective Kd or IC50 value.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript by Tkacik et al. uses in vitro reconstituted systems to examine paradoxical activation across RAF isoforms and inhibitor classes. The authors conclude that paradoxical activation can be explained without invoking negative allostery and propose a general model in which ATP displacement from an "open monomer" promotes dimerization and activation. The biochemical work is technically sound, and the systematic comparison across RAF paralogs (along with mutational/functional analysis) across inhibitor classes is a strength.

      However, the central mechanistic conclusions are overgeneralized relative to the experimental systems, and several key claims, particularly the dismissal of negative allostery and the proposed unifying model in Figure 6, are not directly supported by the data presented. Most importantly, the absence of RAS, membranes, and relevant regulatory context fundamentally limits the physiological relevance of several conclusions, especially regarding the current clinical type I.5 RAF inhibitors and paradoxical activation.

      Overall, this is a potentially valuable biochemical study, but the manuscript would benefit from more restrained interpretation, clearer framing of scope, and revisions to the model and title to better reflect what is actually tested.

      (1) A central issue is that the biochemical system lacks RAS, membranes, 14-3-3 and endogenous regulatory factors that are known to be required for paradoxical RAF and MAPK activation in cells. As previous work has repeatedly shown and the authors also acknowledge, paradoxical activation by RAF inhibitors is RAS-dependent in cells, and this dependence presumably explains why full-length autoinhibited RAF complexes are refractory to activation in the authors' assays.

      Importantly, the absence of paradoxical activation by type I.5 inhibitors in this system is therefore not mechanistically informative. Type I.5 inhibitors (e.g., vemurafenib, dabrafenib, encorafenib), but not Paradox Breakers (e.g., plixorafenib), robustly induce paradoxical activation in cells because binding of the inhibitor to inactive cytosolic RAF monomer promotes a conformational change that drives RAF recruitment to RAS in the membrane, promoting dimerization. The inability of the type 1.5 inhibitor to suppress the newly formed dimers is the basis of the pronounced paradoxical activation in cells. In the absence of RAS and membrane recruitment, failure to observe paradoxical activation in vitro does not distinguish between competing mechanistic models.

      As a result, conclusions regarding inhibitor class differences, and especially the generality of the proposed model, should be substantially tempered.

      (2) The authors argue that their data argue against negative allostery as a central feature of paradoxical activation. However, the presented data do not directly test negative allostery, nor do they exclude it. The biochemical assays do not recreate the cellular context in which negative allostery has been inferred. Further, structural data showing asymmetric inhibitor occupancy in RAF dimers cannot be dismissed on the basis of alternative symmetric structures alone, particularly given the dynamic nature of RAF dimers in cells.

      Most importantly, negative allostery was proposed to explain paradoxical activation by Type I.5 RAF inhibitors, yet these inhibitors do not paradoxically activate in the assays presented here. The absence of paradoxical activation in this system, therefore, cannot be used to argue against a mechanism that is specifically invoked to explain cellular behavior not recapitulated by the assay.

      (3) The model presented in Figure 6 is conceptually possible but remains speculative. Key elements of the model, including RAS engagement, membrane recruitment, 14-3-3 rearrangements, and the involvement of cellular kinases and phosphatases, are explicitly absent from the experimental system. Accordingly, the model is not tested by the data presented and should not be framed as a validated or general mechanism. The figure and accompanying text should be clearly labeled as a working or conceptual model rather than a mechanistically supported conclusion.

      (4) The manuscript states that type I.5 inhibitors do not induce paradoxical activation in the biochemical assay because their C-helix-out binding mode disfavors dimerization. While this is true in isolation, it overlooks the well-established fact that type I.5 inhibitors (with the exception of paradox breakers) clearly promote RAS-dependent RAF dimerization in cells. This distinction is critical and should be explicitly acknowledged when interpreting the in vitro findings.

      (5) The title suggests a general mechanism for paradoxical activation across RAF isoforms and inhibitor classes, whereas the data primarily address type I and type II inhibitors acting on isolated kinase-domain monomers. A more accurate framing would avoid the term "general" and confine the conclusions to C-helix-in (type I/II) RAF inhibitors in a reduced biochemical context.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Tkacik et al. systematically characterized all three RAF kinase isoforms in vitro with all three types of RAF inhibitors (Type I, I1/2, and II) to investigate the mechanism underlying paradoxical activation.

      In this study, the authors reconstituted heterodimers of A-, B-, and C-RAF kinase domains bound to non-phosphorylable MEK1 (SASA), mimicking the monomeric auto-inhibited state of RAF. These "RAF monomers" were tested for MEK phosphorylation with an increasing concentration of all three types of RAF inhibitors (Type I, I1/2, and II). This study is reminiscent of a previous study of the same team measuring RAF kinase activity in the presence of all three types of inhibitors in the context of dimeric RAF isoforms stabilized by 14-3-3 proteins (Tkacik et al 2025 JBC). RAF monomers had little to no activity at low concentrations of inhibitors (consistent with their "monomeric state"). Addition of type I1/2 inhibitor did not induce paradoxical activation as, in this context, they do not induce RAF dimerization required for activation, as observed by MP. Addition of type I and type II inhibitors led to paradoxical activation consistent with the RAF dimerization induced by these inhibitors, as observed by MP. Interestingly, type II inhibitors induced activation only for B- and C-RAF and not A-RAF.

      At high concentrations of type II inhibitors, kinase activity is inhibited with a strong or weak positive cooperativity for BRAF and CRAF, respectively. This observation is very similar to what the authors previously observed with their dimeric RAF system. Interestingly, when the NtA motif is modified by phosphomimetic mutations in A- and C-Raf, basal kinase activity is stronger, but most importantly, inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation is much stronger with both type I and II inhibitors. This demonstrates that mutation of the NtA motif of ARAF and CRAF sensitized them to paradoxical activation by type II inhibitors.

      The authors also tested the effect of ATP in the paradoxical activation observed in their RAF "monomer" system. As previously published in their assay with 14-3-3 stabilized dimeric RAF, the authors observed an expected shift of the IC50 with Type I inhibitors, while Type II inhibitors seem to behave as a non-competitive inhibitor. The authors next reconstituted the MAP kinase pathway (with RAF monomers at the top of the phosphorylation cascade) to test paradoxical activation amplification. Again, Type I1/2 inhibitors did not induce paradoxical activation, while Type I and II inhibitors did. The authors tested the inhibitors with FL auto-inhibited RAF/MEK/14-3-3 complexes, where, contrary to the "RAF monomers" experiments, FL B- and C-RAF were not paradoxically activated but were inhibited by all three types of inhibitors.

      Overall, Tkacik et al. tackle an important question in the field for which definitive experiments and thorough biochemical investigation to understand the molecular mechanisms for the inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation are still missing, and of high importance for future drug development.

      Strengths:

      The biochemical experiments here are rigorously executed, and the results obtained are highly informative in the field to decipher the intricate mechanisms of RAF activation and inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation.

      Weaknesses:

      The interpretation of the results in the context of the current state of the art is ambiguous and raises questions about the relevance of introducing a new model for inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation, particularly since the findings presented here do not clearly contradict established paradigms. I believe some clarification and precision are required.

      Main comments:

      (1) Figure 2:

      The authors comment on the expected greater increase (for a cascade assay) in the magnitude of ERK phosphorylation compared to what was observed for MEK phosphorylation. However, this observation might be reflective of the stoichiometries used in the assay, with 40 times more MEK compared to RAF concentration (250nm vs 6nM), which might favour pERK vs pMEK.

      - The authors should clarify their rationale for the protein concentration used in this assay and explain how protein stoichiometry was taken into account for the interpretation of their results.

      - In addition, the authors should justify comparing pMEK and pERK TR-FRET values when different anti-phospho antibodies were used. Antibodies may have distinct binding affinities for their epitopes. Could this not lead to differences in FRET signal amplitudes that complicate direct comparison?

      (2) Supplementary Figure 2:

      The author mentioned that the inhibitors did not activate the FL auto-inhibited RAF complexes; however, they did inhibit the TR-FRET signal.

      - Can the authors comment on the origin of the observed basal activity? Would the authors expect self-release of the RAF kinase protein from the auto-inhibited state in the absence of RAS, leading to dimerization and activation? Alternatively, do the inhibitors at low-concentration relieve the auto-inhibited state, thereby driving dimerization and activation?

      - Did the author test the addition of RAS protein in their in vitro system to determine whether "soluble" RAS is sufficient to release the protective interactions with RBD/CRD/14-3-3 and lead to inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation of FL RAF?

      (3) Figure 5B:

      The authors said that the Kd values obtained from their MP assay are consistent with prior studies of RAF homodimerization and RAF:MEK heterodimerization. While this is true from the previous studies of RAF:MEK interaction by BLI (performed from the same team), the Kd of isolated RAF kinase homodimerization has been measured around ~30µM by AUC in the cited ref (24,27 & 37).

      - The authors should discuss the discrepancy between their Kd of homodimerization and the reported Kd values in the literature. At the concentration used for MP, it is surprising to observe RAF dimerization while the Kd of homodimerization has been measured at ~30µM (in the absence of MEK).

      - Would the authors expect the presence of MEK to influence the homodimerization affinity for the isolated KD?

      (4) Conclusions:

      Several times in the introduction and the conclusion, the authors suggest that the negative allostery model (where "inhibitor binding to one protomer of the dimer promotes an active but inhibitor-resistant conformation in the other") is a model that applies to all types of RAF inhibitors (I, I1/2, and II).

      However, from my understanding and all the references cited by the authors, this model only applies to type I1/2 inhibitors, where indeed the aC IN conformation in the second (inhibitor-free) protomer of the RAF dimer might be incompatible with the type I1/2 inhibitors inducing aC OUT conformation. The type I and type II inhibitors are aC IN inhibitors and are expected to bind both protomers from RAF dimers with similar affinities. Therefore, the negative allostery model does not apply to the type I and type II inhibitors. The difference in the mechanism of action of inhibitors is even used to explain the difference in the concentration range in which inhibitor-induced activation is observed in cells. The description of the state of the art in this study is confusing and does not help to properly understand their argumentation to revise the established model for paradoxical RAF activation.

      - Can the authors clarify their analysis of the state of the art on the different mechanisms of action for the paradoxical activation of RAF by the different types of RAF inhibitors?

      5) Conclusions:

      "Our results suggest that negative allostery (or negative cooperativity) is not a requisite feature of paradoxical activation. The type I and type II inhibitors studied here induce RAF dimers and exhibit paradoxical activation but do so without evidence of negative cooperativity, nor do they appear to inhibit intentionally engineered RAF dimers with negative cooperativity (25). Indeed, type II inhibitors exhibit apparent positive cooperativity while type I inhibitors are non-cooperative inhibitors of RAF dimers (25)."

      - Can the authors explain how results on the paradoxical activation induced by type I and type II inhibitors inform or challenge a model that specifically applies to type I1/2 inhibitors?

      The authors often refer to their previous study (reference 25), where they tested the inhibition of all three types of inhibitors with engineered RAF dimers. While I agree with the authors that in reference 25 the Type I and type II inhibitors inhibit RAF dimers without exhibiting negative cooperativity (as expected from the literature and the current model), the authors did observe some negative cooperativity for Type I1/2 inhibitors in their study most particularly for the type I1/2 PB (with hill slope ranging from -0.4 to -0.9, indicative of negative cooperativity).<br /> While the observations that type II inhibitors display positive cooperativity is both novel and very interesting, from what I understand the results from thakick et al 2025 and the current study appear more in line with the current paradigm in the field (which describe paradoxical activation with negative cooperativity for type I1/2 inhibitors and no negative cooperativity for the Type I and II inhibitors) rather than disapproving of the current model and supporting for a new model.

      - In this context, can the authors clarify how their results challenge the current model for paradoxical activation?

      (6) Conclusions:

      The authors describe the JAB34 experiment from Poulikakos et al. 2010 to conclude that "While this experiment cleanly demonstrates inhibitor-induced transactivation of RAF dimers, it is important to recognize that the differential inhibitor sensitivity of the two subunits in this experiment is artificial - it is engineered rather than induced by inhibitor binding as the negative allostery model proposes."

      Indeed, the JAB34 experiment demonstrated the inhibitor-induced transactivation, but the Poulikakos et al. 2010 study does not discuss differential inhibitor sensitivity. The negative allostery model was proposed later by poulikakos team in other papers (Yao et al 2015 and Karoulia et al, 2016), in which JAB34 was not used.

      - Can the authors clarify how the JAB34 experiments question differential inhibitor sensitivity?

      (7) Conclusions:

      "Considering that the conformation required for binding of type I.5 inhibitors destabilizes RAF dimers, it is unclear how an inhibitor binding to one protomer would be able to transmit an allosteric change to the opposite protomer, if that inhibitor's binding causes the existing dimer to dissociate."

      - The authors should comment on whether 14-3-3 proteins might overcome negative regulation by type I1/2 inhibitors, similar to what has been shown for ATP, which acts as a dimer breaker like type I1/2 inhibitors.

      (8) Conclusions:

      "Furthermore, the complex effects of type I.5 inhibitors on dimer stability and the clear resistance of active RAF dimers to these inhibitors complicates interpretation of inhibition data - weak or incomplete inhibition of an enzyme can be difficult to discern from true negative cooperativity (43). As we discuss below, the clear resistance of RAF dimers to type I.5 inhibitors is alone sufficient to explain their ineffective inhibition during paradoxical activation, without invoking negative allostery."

      - The authors should explain how they reconcile this statement and their proposal of a new model that does not rely on negative allostery with their previous findings showing negative cooperativity for RAF dimer inhibition with type I1/2 inhibitors.

      (9) Conclusions:

      Here, the authors propose a new universal model to explain paradoxical activation of RAF by all types of RAF inhibitors:<br /> " Our findings here, in light of structural studies of RAF complexes and prior cellular investigations of paradoxical activation, lead us to a model for paradoxical activation that does not rely on negative allostery and is consistent with activation by diverse inhibitor classes. In this model, the open monomer complex is the target of inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation (Figure 6). Binding of ATP to the RAF active site stabilizes the inactive conformation of the open monomer, which disfavors dimerization. Displacement of ATP by an ATP-competitive inhibitor, irrespective of class, alters the relative N- and C-lobe orientations of the kinase to promote dimerization (30, 35). Once dimerized, inhibitor dissociation from one or both sides of the dimer would allow phosphorylation and activation of MEK."

      From my understanding, the novelty of this new model is twofold: a) the open monomer is the target of the inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation and b) once dimerized, inhibitor dissociation from one or both sides of the dimer would allow phosphorylation and activation of MEK.

      Novelty a) implies, as the authors stated, that "Inhibitor-induced activation and inhibition act on distinct species - activation on the open monomer and inhibition on the 14-3-3-stabilized dimer". The authors should explain what they mean by "activation of the open monomer", while only RAF dimers are catalytically active (except for BRAF V600E mutant)?

      For novelty b), the authors should explain more clearly what experimental results support this new model.

    5. Author Response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Tkacik et al describe their efforts to reconstitute and biochemically characterize ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF proteins and measure their ability to be paradoxically activated by current clinical and preclinical RAF inhibitors. Paradoxical activation of MAPK signaling is a major clinical problem plaguing current RAF inhibitors, and the mechanisms are complex and relatively poorly understood. The authors utilize their preparations of purified ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF kinase domains to measure paradoxical activation by type I and type II inhibitors, utilizing MEK protein as the substrate, and show that CRAF is activated in a similar fashion to BRAF, whereas ARAF appears resistant to activation. These data are analyzed using a simple cooperativity model with the goal of testing whether paradoxical activation involves negative cooperativity between RAF dimer binding sites, as has been previously reported. The authors conclude that it does not. They also test activation of B- and CRAF isoforms prepared in their full-length autoinhibited states and show that under the conditions of their assays, activation by inhibitors is not observed. In a particularly noteworthy part of the paper, the authors show that mutation of the N-terminal acidic (NtA) motif of ARAF and CRAF to match that of BRAF enhances paradoxical activation of CRAF and dramatically restores paradoxical activation of ARAF, which is not activated at all in its WT form, indicating a clear role for the NtA motif in the paradoxical activation mechanism. Additional experiments use mass photometry to measure BRAF dimer induction by inhibitors. The mass photometry measurements are a relatively novel way of achieving this, and the results are qualitatively consistent with previous studies that tracked BRAF dimerization in response to inhibitors using other methods. Overall, the paper establishes that WT CRAF is paradoxically activated by the same inhibitors that activate BRAF, and that ARAF contains the latent potential for activation that appears to be controlled by its NtA motif. The biochemical activation data for BRAF are qualitatively consistent with previous work.

      Strengths:

      While previous studies have put forward detailed molecular mechanisms for paradoxical activation of BRAF, comparatively little is known about the degree to which ARAF and CRAF are prone to this problem, and relatively little biochemical data of any sort are available for ARAF. Seen in this light, the current work should be considered of substantial potential significance for the RAF signaling field and for efforts to understand paradoxical activation and design new inhibitors that avoid it.

      Weaknesses:

      There are, unfortunately, some significant flaws in the data analysis and fitting of the RAF activation data that render the primary conclusion of the paper about the detailed activation mechanism, namely that it does not involve negative cooperativity between active sites, unjustified. This claim is made repeatedly throughout the manuscript, including in the title. Unfortunately, their data analysis approach is overly simplistic and does not probe this question thoroughly. This is the primary weakness of the study and should be addressed. A full biochemical modeling approach that accurately captures what is happening in the experiment needs to be applied in order for detailed inferences to be drawn about the mechanism beyond just the observation of activation.

      The authors' analysis of their RAF:MEK "monomer" paradoxical activation data (Figures 1, 3, and Tables 1, 2) suffers from two fundamental flaws that render the resulting AC50/IC50 and cooperativity (Hill) parameters essentially uninterpretable. Without explaining or justifying their choice, the authors use a two-phase cooperative binding model from GraphPad Prism to fit their activation/inhibition data. This model is intended to describe cooperative ligand binding to multiple coupled sites within a preformed receptor assembly, and does not provide an adequate description of what is happening in this complicated experiment. Specifically, it has two fundamental flaws when applied to the analysis in question:

      (a) It does not account for ligand depletion effects that occur with high-affinity drugs, and that profoundly affect the shapes of the dose-response curves, which are what are being fit 

      The chosen model is one of a class of ligand-binding models that are derived by assuming that the free ligand concentration is effectively equal to the total ligand concentration. Under these conditions, binding curves have a characteristic steepness, and the presence of cooperativity can be inferred from changes in this steepness as described by a Hill coefficient. However, many RAF inhibitors, including most of the type II inhibitors in this study, bind to the dimerized forms of at least one of the RAF isoforms with ultra-high affinity in the picomolar range (particularly apparent in Figure 1 with LY inhibiting BRAF). Under these conditions, the model assumption is not valid. Instead, binding occurs in the high-affinity regime in which the drug titrates the receptor and effectively all the added drug molecules bind, so there is hardly any free ligand (see e.g. Jarmoskaite and Herschlag eLife 2020 for a full description of this "titration" regime). The shapes of the curves under these conditions reflect the total amount of RAF protein (and to some extent drug affinity), rather than the presence of cooperativity. Fitting dose response curves with the chosen model under these conditions will result in conflating binding affinity and protein concentration with cooperativity.

      (b) It does not model the RAF monomer-dimer equilibrium, which is dramatically modulated by drug binding, rendering the results RAF-concentration dependent in a manner not accounted for by the analysis.

      The chosen analysis model also fails to consider the monomer-dimer equilibrium of RAF. This has two ramifications. Since drug binding is coupled to dimerization to a very strong degree, the observed apparent affinities of drug binding (reflected in AC50 and IC50 values) are functions of the concentration of RAF molecules used in the experiment. Since dimerization affinities are likely different for ARAF, BRAF, and CRAF, the measured AC50 values also cannot be compared between isoforms. This concentration dependence is not addressed by the authors. A related issue is that the model assumes drug binding occurs to two coupled sites on preformed dimers, not to a mixture of monomers and dimers. "Cooperativity" parameters determined in this manner will reflect the shifting monomer-dimer equilibrium rather than the cooperativity within dimers. Additionally, the inhibition side of the activation/inhibition curves is driven by binding of the drug to the single remaining site on the dimer, not to two coupled sites, and so one cannot determine cooperativity values for this process in this manner.

      As a result of both of these issues, the parameters reported in the tables do not correctly reflect cooperativity and cannot be used to infer the presence or absence of negative cooperativity between RAF dimer subunits. To address these major issues, the authors would need to apply a data analysis/fitting procedure that correctly models the biochemical interactions occurring in the sample, including both the monomer-dimer equilibrium and how this equilibrium is coupled to drug binding, such as that developed in e.g., Kholodenko Cell Reports 2015. Alternatively, the authors should remove the statements claiming a lack of negative cooperativity from the manuscript and alter the title to reflect this.

      The bell-shaped dose response model that we employed models the sum of two dose-response curves – one that activates and one that inhibits. That is a simple way of capturing the essence of paradoxical activation -- the superposition of drug-induced activation at low inhibitor concentrations with inhibition at higher concentrations. That said, we agree completely with the reviewer that the model does not capture the complexity of what is happening in the experiment. We worked extensively with the Kholodenko model (which we implemented in Kintek Explorer), which accounts for the effect of drug on the monomer/dimer equilibrium and for the affinity of drug for each protomer of a dimer (and can therefore model positive or negative cooperativity as well as non-cooperative binding). We could obtain excellent fits with this model with positive cooperativity – perhaps not surprising considering that this is a 12 parameter model – with reasonable Kd values for drug binding and monomer/dimer equilibrium. However, we ultimately chose not to include this analysis when we realized that the fits were not at steady-state. The underlying Kon and Koff rates for the reasonable Kd’s for monomer/dimer formation were unreasonably slow. We could also obtain superficially reasonable fits with negative or non-cooperative binding, but close inspection revealed that they did not accurately fit the steepness of the inhibition phase of the dose-response curves for type II inhibitors. Even the Kholodenko model does not capture all the key aspects of our experiment. Perhaps most notably competition with ATP, the effect of ATP on the monomer dimer equilibrium, and the divergent conformations of the kinase required for binding ATP vs a type II inhibitor. We put some effort into explicitly including ATP in the model, but quickly decided that it was beyond our modeling expertise (and it also was not feasible to implement in Kintek explorer). In the end, we settled on the bell-shaped dose-response model because it was the simplest model that fit the data. We expect to include a supplemental figure/note in the revised manuscript to discuss our work with the Kholodenko model. We will also acknowledge the limitations of the bell-shaped dose response model.

      This reviewer is also concerned that the steepness of the inhibition phase of the curves may be the result of enzyme-titration with these tight-binding inhibitors, rather than a result of positive cooperativity. We are reasonably sure that this is not the case. The shape of these curves and the IC50/AC50 values obtained is relatively insensitive to enzyme concentration, and we will include additional data in our revision to demonstrate this. Also, the steep hill slopes are unique to the type II inhibitors, which require a distinct inactive conformation of the kinase. Type I inhibitor SB590885 is similarly potent to the type II inhibitors, but does not exhibit this effect. If we were simply titrating enzyme, we would expect to see this with SB590885 as well.

      Also, we will clarify in the revised manuscript that our interpretation of positive cooperativity of inhibition by type II inhibitors is also supported by our prior work with 14-3-3-bound RAF dimers (Tkacik et al, JBC 2025). This is a much simpler experiment, as dimers are pre-formed. We have now done a thorough study of the effect of enzyme concentration on the IC<sub>50</sub> and apparent cooperativity in dimer inhibition, which we will include in our revised manuscript. These experiments confirm that we are not in a regime where we are titrating enzyme.

      As an aside, with respect to models that incorporate free inhibitor concentration, we did try to fit our 14-3-3-bound dimer inhibition data (in Tkacik et al, JBC 2025) with the Morrison equation for tight-binding inhibitors, which does take into account free ligand concentration. The fits were not reasonable with type II inhibitors, at least in part due to the non-ATP-competitive behavior of the type II drugs. Also the Morrison equation does not model cooperativity.

      Some other points to consider

      (1) The observation that ARAF is not activated by type II inhibitors is interesting. A detailed comparison of the activation magnitudes between inhibitors and between A-, B-, and CRAF is hampered by the arbitrary baseline signal in the assay, which arises from a non-zero FRET ratio in the absence of any RAF activity. The authors might consider background correcting their data using a calibration curve constructed using MEK samples of known degrees of phosphorylation, so that they can calculate turnover numbers and fold activation values rather than an increase over baseline. This will likely reveal that the activation effects are more substantial than they appear against the high background signal.

      We will explore this for our revision.

      (2) The authors note that full-length autoinhibited 14-3-3-bound RAF monomers are not activated by type I and II inhibitors. However, since this process involves the formation of a RAF dimer from two monomers, the process would also be expected to be concentration dependent, and the authors have only investigated this at a single protein concentration. Since disassembly of the autoinhibited state must also occur before dimerization, it might be expected to be kinetically disfavored as well. Have the authors tested this?

      Good points. We have carried out this experiment at more than one enzyme concentration and differing reaction times, and also failed to see activation. However, we have not systematically explored either variable.

      (3) ATP concentration modulates activation. While this is an interesting observation, some of this analysis suffers from the same issue discussed above, of not considering high-affinity binding effects. For instance, LY is not affected by ATP concentration in their data (Figure 4D), but this is easily explained as being due to its very tight binding affinity, resulting in titration of the receptor and the shape of the inhibition curve reflecting the amount of RAF kinase in the experiment and not the effective Kd or IC50 value.

      As discussed above, we’ve convinced ourselves that we are not simply titrating enzyme. It occurred to us that such an effect could explain both the steepness of the inhibition curves with LY and other type II inhibitors and the apparent ATP-insensitivity. Our studies of concentration-dependence and the correlation of this effect with the type II binding mode argue against this possibility.

      Finally, as an overarching comment to this Reviewer and the others, we understand well that our enzyme inhibition studies (here and in Tkacik 2025) do not rise to the level of a formal demonstration of cooperative ligand binding. We envision a future study in which we could address this directly, perhaps by using single molecule fluorescence to observe on/off rates for binding of fluorescently tagged inhibitors to immobilized RAF dimers. (This is clearly beyond the scope of the present work).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript by Tkacik et al. uses in vitro reconstituted systems to examine paradoxical activation across RAF isoforms and inhibitor classes. The authors conclude that paradoxical activation can be explained without invoking negative allostery and propose a general model in which ATP displacement from an "open monomer" promotes dimerization and activation. The biochemical work is technically sound, and the systematic comparison across RAF paralogs (along with mutational/functional analysis) across inhibitor classes is a strength.

      However, the central mechanistic conclusions are overgeneralized relative to the experimental systems, and several key claims, particularly the dismissal of negative allostery and the proposed unifying model in Figure 6, are not directly supported by the data presented. Most importantly, the absence of RAS, membranes, and relevant regulatory context fundamentally limits the physiological relevance of several conclusions, especially regarding the current clinical type I.5 RAF inhibitors and paradoxical activation.

      Overall, this is a potentially valuable biochemical study, but the manuscript would benefit from more restrained interpretation, clearer framing of scope, and revisions to the model and title to better reflect what is actually tested.

      (1) A central issue is that the biochemical system lacks RAS, membranes, 14-3-3 and endogenous regulatory factors that are known to be required for paradoxical RAF and MAPK activation in cells. As previous work has repeatedly shown and the authors also acknowledge, paradoxical activation by RAF inhibitors is RAS-dependent in cells, and this dependence presumably explains why full-length autoinhibited RAF complexes are refractory to activation in the authors' assays.

      Importantly, the absence of paradoxical activation by type I.5 inhibitors in this system is therefore not mechanistically informative. Type I.5 inhibitors (e.g., vemurafenib, dabrafenib, encorafenib), but not Paradox Breakers (e.g., plixorafenib), robustly induce paradoxical activation in cells because binding of the inhibitor to inactive cytosolic RAF monomer promotes a conformational change that drives RAF recruitment to RAS in the membrane, promoting dimerization. The inability of the type 1.5 inhibitor to suppress the newly formed dimers is the basis of the pronounced paradoxical activation in cells. In the absence of RAS and membrane recruitment, failure to observe paradoxical activation in vitro does not distinguish between competing mechanistic models.

      As a result, conclusions regarding inhibitor class differences, and especially the generality of the proposed model, should be substantially tempered.

      We will emphasize the limitations of our highly simplified experimental system in the revised manuscript, and temper some of our interpretations. And while the lack of membranes/RAS/14-3-3 in our system and the lack of observed PA with type I.5 inhibitors is a limitation of our study, we disagree that it renders our study of type I.5 inhibitors mechanistically uninformative. As seen here and consistent with prior studies, the binding mode of these compounds disfavors formation of the kinase dimer. While this may be overcome by 14-3-3 binding and other effects in the cellular context, it reflects a fundamental mechanistic difference as compared with type I and type II inhibitors, which also exhibit paradoxical activation.

      (2) The authors argue that their data argue against negative allostery as a central feature of paradoxical activation. However, the presented data do not directly test negative allostery, nor do they exclude it. The biochemical assays do not recreate the cellular context in which negative allostery has been inferred. Further, structural data showing asymmetric inhibitor occupancy in RAF dimers cannot be dismissed on the basis of alternative symmetric structures alone, particularly given the dynamic nature of RAF dimers in cells.

      Most importantly, negative allostery was proposed to explain paradoxical activation by Type I.5 RAF inhibitors, yet these inhibitors do not paradoxically activate in the assays presented here. The absence of paradoxical activation in this system, therefore, cannot be used to argue against a mechanism that is specifically invoked to explain cellular behavior not recapitulated by the assay.

      To be clear, we are not dismissing the possibility of negative cooperativity. And we do not think of our model as an alternative to the negative cooperativity model – rather it is a generalization that can account for paradoxical activation by diverse inhibitor classes, irrespective of positive, negative or non-cooperative modes of inhibition. We will emphasize these points in the revised manuscript.

      If negative allostery were a requisite feature of PA, we would not expect to see PA with type II inhibitors. As discussed in our response to Reviewer 1, we see clear evidence of positively cooperative inhibition of 14-3-3-bound RAF dimers by type II inhibitors (Tkacik JBC 2025) and in the present study, we find clear paradoxical activation by type II inhibitors (and there are many reports in the literature of PA by type II inhibitors in cellular contexts).

      (3) The model presented in Figure 6 is conceptually possible but remains speculative. Key elements of the model, including RAS engagement, membrane recruitment, 14-3-3 rearrangements, and the involvement of cellular kinases and phosphatases, are explicitly absent from the experimental system. Accordingly, the model is not tested by the data presented and should not be framed as a validated or general mechanism. The figure and accompanying text should be clearly labeled as a working or conceptual model rather than a mechanistically supported conclusion.

      We will revise the text to more clearly reflect that this is a working model, and importantly, that it is based on a large literature in this area in addition to the relevant experimental work in this manuscript.

      (4) The manuscript states that type I.5 inhibitors do not induce paradoxical activation in the biochemical assay because their C-helix-out binding mode disfavors dimerization. While this is true in isolation, it overlooks the well-established fact that type I.5 inhibitors (with the exception of paradox breakers) clearly promote RAS-dependent RAF dimerization in cells. This distinction is critical and should be explicitly acknowledged when interpreting the in vitro findings.

      We will explicitly make this point in the revised manuscript.

      (5) The title suggests a general mechanism for paradoxical activation across RAF isoforms and inhibitor classes, whereas the data primarily address type I and type II inhibitors acting on isolated kinase-domain monomers. A more accurate framing would avoid the term "general" and confine the conclusions to C-helix-in (type I/II) RAF inhibitors in a reduced biochemical context.

      As noted above, and in our response to Reviewer 3 below, we will clarify the contribution of data in present manuscript to the model and that it is based more broadly on the literature on PA and our insights into RAF structure and regulation. We will also revise the title to avoid the implication that the model arises mainly from the experimental data in the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Tkacik et al. systematically characterized all three RAF kinase isoforms in vitro with all three types of RAF inhibitors (Type I, I1/2, and II) to investigate the mechanism underlying paradoxical activation.

      In this study, the authors reconstituted heterodimers of A-, B-, and C-RAF kinase domains bound to non-phosphorylable MEK1 (SASA), mimicking the monomeric auto-inhibited state of RAF. These "RAF monomers" were tested for MEK phosphorylation with an increasing concentration of all three types of RAF inhibitors (Type I, I1/2, and II). This study is reminiscent of a previous study of the same team measuring RAF kinase activity in the presence of all three types of inhibitors in the context of dimeric RAF isoforms stabilized by 14-3-3 proteins (Tkacik et al 2025 JBC). RAF monomers had little to no activity at low concentrations of inhibitors (consistent with their "monomeric state"). Addition of type I1/2 inhibitor did not induce paradoxical activation as, in this context, they do not induce RAF dimerization required for activation, as observed by MP. Addition of type I and type II inhibitors led to paradoxical activation consistent with the RAF dimerization induced by these inhibitors, as observed by MP. Interestingly, type II inhibitors induced activation only for B- and C-RAF and not A-RAF.

      At high concentrations of type II inhibitors, kinase activity is inhibited with a strong or weak positive cooperativity for BRAF and CRAF, respectively. This observation is very similar to what the authors previously observed with their dimeric RAF system. Interestingly, when the NtA motif is modified by phosphomimetic mutations in A- and C-Raf, basal kinase activity is stronger, but most importantly, inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation is much stronger with both type I and II inhibitors. This demonstrates that mutation of the NtA motif of ARAF and CRAF sensitized them to paradoxical activation by type II inhibitors.

      The authors also tested the effect of ATP in the paradoxical activation observed in their RAF "monomer" system. As previously published in their assay with 14-3-3 stabilized dimeric RAF, the authors observed an expected shift of the IC50 with Type I inhibitors, while Type II inhibitors seem to behave as a non-competitive inhibitor. The authors next reconstituted the MAP kinase pathway (with RAF monomers at the top of the phosphorylation cascade) to test paradoxical activation amplification. Again, Type I1/2 inhibitors did not induce paradoxical activation, while Type I and II inhibitors did. The authors tested the inhibitors with FL auto-inhibited RAF/MEK/14-3-3 complexes, where, contrary to the "RAF monomers" experiments, FL B- and C-RAF were not paradoxically activated but were inhibited by all three types of inhibitors.

      Overall, Tkacik et al. tackle an important question in the field for which definitive experiments and thorough biochemical investigation to understand the molecular mechanisms for the inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation are still missing, and of high importance for future drug development.

      Strengths:

      The biochemical experiments here are rigorously executed, and the results obtained are highly informative in the field to decipher the intricate mechanisms of RAF activation and inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation.

      Weaknesses:

      The interpretation of the results in the context of the current state of the art is ambiguous and raises questions about the relevance of introducing a new model for inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation, particularly since the findings presented here do not clearly contradict established paradigms. I believe some clarification and precision are required.

      While our model does not conflict with established paradigms (because it can allow for negative cooperativity) our experimental findings (here and in Tkacik et al JBC 2025) are in conflict with the negative allostery model. We will work to clarify this in the revised manuscript.

      Main comments:

      (1) Figure 2:

      The authors comment on the expected greater increase (for a cascade assay) in the magnitude of ERK phosphorylation compared to what was observed for MEK phosphorylation. However, this observation might be reflective of the stoichiometries used in the assay, with 40 times more MEK compared to RAF concentration (250nm vs 6nM), which might favour pERK vs pMEK.

      The authors should clarify their rationale for the protein concentration used in this assay and explain how protein stoichiometry was taken into account for the interpretation of their results.

      The Reviewer makes a good point, the concentrations and ratios chosen are expected to make a substantial difference in observed amplification. We intended this experiment more as a qualitative demonstration of cascade amplification and will clarify this in the revised manuscript.

      In addition, the authors should justify comparing pMEK and pERK TR-FRET values when different anti-phospho antibodies were used. Antibodies may have distinct binding affinities for their epitopes. Could this not lead to differences in FRET signal amplitudes that complicate direct comparison?

      Also a good point, we will note this limitation in the revised manuscript.

      (2) Supplementary Figure 2:

      The author mentioned that the inhibitors did not activate the FL auto-inhibited RAF complexes; however, they did inhibit the TR-FRET signal.

      Can the authors comment on the origin of the observed basal activity? Would the authors expect self-release of the RAF kinase protein from the auto-inhibited state in the absence of RAS, leading to dimerization and activation? Alternatively, do the inhibitors at low-concentration relieve the auto-inhibited state, thereby driving dimerization and activation?

      We think that the baseline activity that is being inhibited is due to low concentrations of active dimer in our autoinhibited state preparations.

      Did the author test the addition of RAS protein in their in vitro system to determine whether "soluble" RAS is sufficient to release the protective interactions with RBD/CRD/14-3-3 and lead to inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation of FL RAF?

      We did not, but we’ve thought about it. We expect that soluble RAS would not be activating. We have previously carried our extensive studies of BRAF activation by soluble vs. farnesylated RAS in a membrane environment (liposomes) and observed partial activation in the latter (Park et al, Nature Communications 2023).

      (3) Figure 5B:

      The authors said that the Kd values obtained from their MP assay are consistent with prior studies of RAF homodimerization and RAF:MEK heterodimerization. While this is true from the previous studies of RAF:MEK interaction by BLI (performed from the same team), the Kd of isolated RAF kinase homodimerization has been measured around ~30µM by AUC in the cited ref (24,27 & 37).

      The authors should discuss the discrepancy between their Kd of homodimerization and the reported Kd values in the literature. At the concentration used for MP, it is surprising to observe RAF dimerization while the Kd of homodimerization has been measured at ~30µM (in the absence of MEK).

      We will cite/discuss these differences in our revised manuscript.

      Would the authors expect the presence of MEK to influence the homodimerization affinity for the isolated KD?

      Perhaps, but likely only modestly. We do not think this explains the discrepancy noted above.

      (4) Conclusions:

      Several times in the introduction and the conclusion, the authors suggest that the negative allostery model (where "inhibitor binding to one protomer of the dimer promotes an active but inhibitor-resistant conformation in the other") is a model that applies to all types of RAF inhibitors (I, I1/2, and II).

      However, from my understanding and all the references cited by the authors, this model only applies to type I1/2 inhibitors, where indeed the aC IN conformation in the second (inhibitor-free) protomer of the RAF dimer might be incompatible with the type I1/2 inhibitors inducing aC OUT conformation. The type I and type II inhibitors are aC IN inhibitors and are expected to bind both protomers from RAF dimers with similar affinities. Therefore, the negative allostery model does not apply to the type I and type II inhibitors. The difference in the mechanism of action of inhibitors is even used to explain the difference in the concentration range in which inhibitor-induced activation is observed in cells. The description of the state of the art in this study is confusing and does not help to properly understand their argumentation to revise the established model for paradoxical RAF activation.

      We will work to clarify these complicated issues in the revised manuscript. While the reviewer is correct that the negative allostery model was developed in the context of Type 1.5 inhibitors, there are many examples in the literature of it being used to explain PA by type I and type II inhibitors as well.

      Can the authors clarify their analysis of the state of the art on the different mechanisms of action for the paradoxical activation of RAF by the different types of RAF inhibitors?

      We’ll try!

      5) Conclusions:

      "Our results suggest that negative allostery (or negative cooperativity) is not a requisite feature of paradoxical activation. The type I and type II inhibitors studied here induce RAF dimers and exhibit paradoxical activation but do so without evidence of negative cooperativity, nor do they appear to inhibit intentionally engineered RAF dimers with negative cooperativity (25). Indeed, type II inhibitors exhibit apparent positive cooperativity while type I inhibitors are non-cooperative inhibitors of RAF dimers (25)."

      Can the authors explain how results on the paradoxical activation induced by type I and type II inhibitors inform or challenge a model that specifically applies to type I1/2 inhibitors?

      As noted above, the negative allostery model has also been widely applied irrespective of inhibitor type (rightly or wrongly). Essentially any review or discussion of the topic will explain in one way or another how inhibitor binding to one side of a dimer leaves the opposite side active but resistant to inhibitor. Our model is agnostic with respect to cooperativity of inhibition – essentially we are pointing out a simple circumstance that seems to have been lost in the focus on negative allostery. Paradoxical activation is a result of drug action on RAF monomers, while inhibition is a result of drug action on RAF dimers. Because these are distinct molecular species/complexes, they can be expected to differ in their affinity for RAF inhibitors, irrespective of type. Because binding of ATP in the active site of RAF monomers stabilizes the inactive monomeric state, displacing ATP can promote activation/dimerization. For any inhibitor that is more potent at displacing ATP from a monomer that from an active dimer, we could expect to observe a window of paradoxical activation.

      The authors often refer to their previous study (reference 25), where they tested the inhibition of all three types of inhibitors with engineered RAF dimers. While I agree with the authors that in reference 25 the Type I and type II inhibitors inhibit RAF dimers without exhibiting negative cooperativity (as expected from the literature and the current model), the authors did observe some negative cooperativity for Type I1/2 inhibitors in their study most particularly for the type I1/2 PB (with hill slope ranging from -0.4 to -0.9, indicative of negative cooperativity).

      Correct! Although we do note the caveat that weak inhibition can also give rise to apparent negative cooperativity.

      While the observations that type II inhibitors display positive cooperativity is both novel and very interesting, from what I understand the results from thakick et al 2025 and the current study appear more in line with the current paradigm in the field (which describe paradoxical activation with negative cooperativity for type I1/2 inhibitors and no negative cooperativity for the Type I and II inhibitors) rather than disapproving of the current model and supporting for a new model. 

      In this context, can the authors clarify how their results challenge the current model for paradoxical activation?

      While the difference in binding modes and structural effects of type I.5 vs type I and type II inhibitors are well known in the field, we do not know of any work that suggests paradoxical activation arises from anything other than negative allostery. As one example to the contrary, Rasmussen et al. observe allosteric coupling asymmetry in binding of type II inhibitors to BRAF and attribute the observed paradoxical activation to “induction of dimers with one inhibited and one catalytically active subunit” (Rasmussen et al., Elife 2024). They also studied type I inhibitors in this work, but did not observe paradoxical activation.

      (6) Conclusions:

      The authors describe the JAB34 experiment from Poulikakos et al. 2010 to conclude that "While this experiment cleanly demonstrates inhibitor-induced transactivation of RAF dimers, it is important to recognize that the differential inhibitor sensitivity of the two subunits in this experiment is artificial - it is engineered rather than induced by inhibitor binding as the negative allostery model proposes."

      Indeed, the JAB34 experiment demonstrated the inhibitor-induced transactivation, but the Poulikakos et al. 2010 study does not discuss differential inhibitor sensitivity. The negative allostery model was proposed later by poulikakos team in other papers (Yao et al 2015 and Karoulia et al, 2016), in which JAB34 was not used.

      Can the authors clarify how the JAB34 experiments question differential inhibitor sensitivity?

      Good point, we neglected to discuss the Yao and Karoulia papers and will do so in our revised manuscript.

      (7) Conclusions:

      "Considering that the conformation required for binding of type I.5 inhibitors destabilizes RAF dimers, it is unclear how an inhibitor binding to one protomer would be able to transmit an allosteric change to the opposite protomer, if that inhibitor's binding causes the existing dimer to dissociate."

      The authors should comment on whether 14-3-3 proteins might overcome negative regulation by type I1/2 inhibitors, similar to what has been shown for ATP, which acts as a dimer breaker like type I1/2 inhibitors.

      Certainly we expect that they will, and we will discuss this in our revised manuscript.

      (8) Conclusions:

      "Furthermore, the complex effects of type I.5 inhibitors on dimer stability and the clear resistance of active RAF dimers to these inhibitors complicates interpretation of inhibition data - weak or incomplete inhibition of an enzyme can be difficult to discern from true negative cooperativity (43). As we discuss below, the clear resistance of RAF dimers to type I.5 inhibitors is alone sufficient to explain their ineffective inhibition during paradoxical activation, without invoking negative allostery." 

      The authors should explain how they reconcile this statement and their proposal of a new model that does not rely on negative allostery with their previous findings showing negative cooperativity for RAF dimer inhibition with type I1/2 inhibitors.

      As discussed above and in responses to other Reviewers, we do not exclude negative cooperativity for Type I.5 inhibitors. That said, we are skeptical, even in light of our own findings of apparent negative cooperativity by type 1.5 compounds, due in part to the caveats the reviewer highlights above.

      (9) Conclusions:

      Here, the authors propose a new universal model to explain paradoxical activation of RAF by all types of RAF inhibitors:

      " Our findings here, in light of structural studies of RAF complexes and prior cellular investigations of paradoxical activation, lead us to a model for paradoxical activation that does not rely on negative allostery and is consistent with activation by diverse inhibitor classes. In this model, the open monomer complex is the target of inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation (Figure 6). Binding of ATP to the RAF active site stabilizes the inactive conformation of the open monomer, which disfavors dimerization. Displacement of ATP by an ATP-competitive inhibitor, irrespective of class, alters the relative N- and C-lobe orientations of the kinase to promote dimerization (30, 35). Once dimerized, inhibitor dissociation from one or both sides of the dimer would allow phosphorylation and activation of MEK."

      From my understanding, the novelty of this new model is twofold: a) the open monomer is the target of the inhibitor-induced paradoxical activation and b) once dimerized, inhibitor dissociation from one or both sides of the dimer would allow phosphorylation and activation of MEK.

      Novelty a) implies, as the authors stated, that "Inhibitor-induced activation and inhibition act on distinct species - activation on the open monomer and inhibition on the 14-3-3-stabilized dimer". The authors should explain what they mean by "activation of the open monomer", while only RAF dimers are catalytically active (except for BRAF V600E mutant)?

      We will clarify – by activation we mean promoting conversion of the open monomer to a dimer.

      For novelty b), the authors should explain more clearly what experimental results support this new model.

      We will more explicitly detail how our results here as well as prior work in the field support this model.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important study presents a convincing methodological approach to probe the structural features of the full-length human Hv1 channel as a purified protein. The method is supported by rigorous biochemical assays and spectral FRET analysis, which will interest biophysicists and physiologists studying Hv1 and other ion channels and membrane proteins. Overall, the work introduces an interesting labeling strategy and provides a methodology that is of value in investigating hHV1 in particular and can be extended to other ion channels. The authors also provide preliminary observations regarding conformational changes induced by zinc.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      [Editors' note: this version has been assessed by the Reviewing Editor without further input from the original reviewers. The authors have addressed the comments raised in the previous round of review, shown below.]

      In this study, the noncanonical amino acid acridon-2-ylalanine (Acd) was inserted at various positions within the human Hv1 protein using a genetic code expansion approach. The purified mutants with incorporated fluorophore were shown to be functional using a proton flux assay in proteoliposomes. FRET between native tryptophan and tyrosine residues and Acd were quantified using spectral FRET analysis. Predicted FRET efficiencies calculated from an AlphaFold model of the Hv1 dimer were compared to the corresponding experimental values. Spectral FRET analysis was also used to test whether structural rearrangements caused by Zn2+, a well-known Hv1 inhibitor, could be detected. The experimental data provide a good validation of the approach, but further expansion of the analysis will be necessary to differentiate between intra- and intersubunit structural features.

      Interestingly, the observed rearrangements induced by Zn2+ were not limited to the protein region proximal to the extracellular binding site but extended to the intracellular side of the channel. This finding agrees with previous studies showing that some extracellular Hv1 inhibitors, such as Zn2+ or AGAP/W38F, can cause long-range structural changes propagating to the intracellular vestibule of the channel (De La Rosa et al. J. Gen. Physiol. 2018, and Tang et al. Brit J. Pharm 2020). The authors should consider adding these references.

      Since one of the main goals of this work was to validate Acd incorporation and the spectral FRET analysis approach to detect conformational changes in hHv1 in preparation for future studies, the authors should consider removing one subunit from their dimer model, recalculating FRET efficiencies for the monomer, and comparing the predicted values to the experimental FRET data. This comparison could support the idea that the reported FRET measurements can inform not only on intrasubunit structural features but also on subunit organization.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript by Carmona, Zagotta, and Gordon is generally well-written. It presents a crude and incomplete structural analysis of the voltage-gated proton channel based on measured FRET distances. The primary experimental approach is Förster Resonance Energy Transfer (FRET), using a fluorescent probe attached to a noncanonical amino acid. This strategy is advantageous because the noncanonical amino acid likely occupies less space than conventional labels, allowing more effective incorporation into the channel structure.

      Fourteen individual positions within the channel were mutated for site-specific labeling, twelve of which yielded functional protein expression. These twelve labeling sites span discrete regions of the channel, including P1, P2, S0, S1, S2, S3, S4, and the dimer-connecting coiled-coil domain. FRET measurements are achieved using acridon-2-ylalanine (Acd) as the acceptor, with four tryptophan or four tyrosine residues per monomer serving as donors. In addition to estimating distances from FRET efficiency, the authors analyze full FRET spectra and investigate fluorescence lifetimes on the nanosecond timescale.

      Despite these strengths, the manuscript does not provide a clear explanation of how channel structure changes during gating. While a discrepancy between AlphaFold structural predictions and the experimental measurements is noted, it remains unclear whether this mismatch arises from limitations of the model or from the experimental approach. No further structural analysis is presented to resolve this issue or to clarify the conformational states of the protein.

      The manuscript successfully demonstrates that Acd can be incorporated at specific positions without abolishing channel function, and it is noteworthy that the reconstituted proteins function as voltage-activated proton channels in liposomes. The authors also report reversible zinc inhibition of the channel, suggesting that zinc induces structural changes in certain channel regions that can be reversed by EDTA chelation. However, this observation is not explored in sufficient depth to yield meaningful mechanistic insight.

      Overall, while the study introduces an interesting labeling strategy and provides valuable methodological observations, the analysis appears incomplete. Additional structural interpretation and mechanistic insight are needed.

    4. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Interestingly, the observed rearrangements induced by Zn<sup>2+</sup> were not limited to the protein region proximal to the extracellular binding site but extended to the intracellular side of the channel. This finding agrees with previous studies showing that some extracellular H<sub>v</sub>1 inhibitors, such as Zn<sup>2+</sup> or AGAP/W38F, can cause long-range structural changes propagating to the intracellular vestibule of the channel (De La Rosa et al. J. Gen. Physiol. 2018, and Tang et al. Brit J. Pharm 2020). The authors should consider adding these references.

      We added the suggested references to the Results section.

      Since one of the main goals of this work was to validate Acd incorporation and the spectral FRET analysis approach to detect conformational changes in hHv1 in preparation for future studies, the authors should consider removing one subunit from their dimer model, recalculating FRET efficiencies for the monomer, and comparing the predicted values to the experimental FRET data. This comparison could support the idea that the reported FRET measurements can inform not only on intrasubunit structural features but also on subunit organization.

      We calculated the predicted intrasubunit FRET efficiency and presented the results in the new Figure S10. Pearson’s coefficient decreased from 0.48 for the dimer to 0.18 for the monomer, suggesting the experimental FRET contains information about subunit organization. This was added to the text.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Tryptophan and tyrosine exhibit similar quantum yields, but their extinction coefficients differ substantially. Is this difference accounted for in your FRET analysis? Please clarify whether this would result in a stronger weighting of tryptophan compared to tyrosine.

      We accounted for differences in the extinction coefficients of Trp and Tyr in our calculations, which are detailed in the Supplementary Text. The assumptions result in a stronger contribution from Trp than from Tyr.

      (2) Is the fluorescence of acridon-2-ylalanine (Acd) pH-dependent? If so, could local pH variations within the channel environment influence the probe's photophysical properties and affect the measurements?

      The acridone fluorescence, which is the fluorophore in Acd, is not pH-dependent between pH 2 and 9 (Stephen G.S. and Sturgeon R.J. Analytica Chimica Acta. 1977). This was added to the text.

      (3) Several constructs (e.g., K125Tag, Y134Tag, I217Tag, and Q233Tag) display two bands on SDS-PAGE rather than a single band. Could this indicate incomplete translation or premature termination at the introduced tag site? Please clarify.

      Yes, the additional bands in the WB are due to the termination of translation for the mentioned protein constructs. We added a note in the legend of Figure 2 regarding this point.

      (4) In Figure 5F, the comparison between predicted FRET values and experimentally determined ratio values appears largely uninformative. The discussion on page 9 suggests either an inaccurate structural model or insufficient quantification of protein dynamics. If the underlying cause cannot be distinguished, how do the authors propose to improve the structural model of hHv1 or better describe its conformational dynamics?

      We understand the confusion about this point. We are not planning to improve the structural model with FRET between Trp/Tyr and Acd. We modified the text to avoid confusion regarding this point. We plan to use Acd as a transition metal ion FRET (tmFRET) donor to study the conformational dynamics of hH<sub>v</sub>1 in the future (Discussion). 

      (5) Cu<sup>2+</sup>, Ru<sup>2+</sup>, and Ni<sup>2+</sup> are presented as suitable FRET acceptors for Acd. Would Zn<sup>2+</sup> also be expected to function as an acceptor in this context? If so, could structural information be derived from zinc binding independently of Trp/Tyr?

      Transition metal ion FRET (tmFRET) uses a fluorophore as the donor and a transition metal ion chelator as the acceptor. For FRET to occur between these donor-acceptor pairs, the fluorescence spectrum of the donor must overlap the absorption spectrum of the metal ion (Zagotta et al., eLife. 2021; Zagotta et al., Biophys J. 2024; Gordon et al., Biophys J. 2024). Zn<sup>2+</sup> does not absorb visible light, so tmFRET cannot occur for this divalent metal.

      (6) The investigated structure is most likely dimeric. Previous studies report that zinc stabilizes interactions between hHv1 monomers more strongly than in the native dimeric state. Could this provide an explanation for the observed zinc-dependent effects? Additionally, do the detergent micelles used in this study predominantly contain monomers or dimers?

      Our full-length hH<sub>v</sub>1 in Anz3-12 detergent micelles is predominantly a dimer, as demonstrated in the new panel of Figure S5. From our data, we cannot compare the effects of zinc between monomers and dimers.

      (7) hHv1 normally inserts into a phospholipid bilayer, as used in the reconstitution experiments. In contrast, detergent micelles may form monolayers rather than bilayers. Could the authors clarify the nature of the micelles used and discuss whether the protein is expected to adopt the same fold in a monolayer environment as in a bilayer?

      We used Anzergent 3-12 detergent micelles, which stabilize hH<sub>v</sub>1 in solution. We indicated this in the Results and Materials and Methods sections. We are also intrigued by whether protein folding and conformational dynamics differ between detergent micelles and proteoliposomes, but our data do not provide an answer to this question. We found that the proteoliposomes used for measuring the hH<sub>v</sub>1 function don’t have enough Acd signals to record their spectra, preventing us from performing the same FRET measurements between Trp/Tyr and Acd in liposomes. Still, detergent-solubilized hH<sub>v</sub>1 is functional upon reconstitution, demonstrating that its functional folding is not irreversibly altered in micelles.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) On page 9, the reference to Figure S11 should be corrected to Figure S10.

      We thank the reviewer for catching this mistake. It was corrected in the updated version.

      (2) On page 9, multiple prior studies describing zinc binding to hHv1 should be acknowledged, for example:

      Musset et al. (2010), J. Physiol., 588, 1435-1449;

      Jardin et al. (2020), Biophys. J., 118, 1221-1233.

      References were added to the text.

      (3) On page 11, the statement "with Acd incorporated ... we can interrogate its gating mechanism in unprecedented detail" appears overly strong relative to the data presented. Another phrasing might be appropriate.

      The sentence was changed. It now reads: “With Acd incorporated at multiple sites in full-length hH<sub>v</sub>1, it will be possible to interrogate conformational changes across the protein’s different structural domains using Acd as a tmFRET donor to understand its molecular mechanisms.”

    1. eLife Assessment

      This is an important study that addresses the temporal aspects of cell non-autonomous regulation of lifespan. It demonstrates that the same neurons and neurotransmitter have distinct impacts on longevity at different ages. The data convincingly supports the authors' claims.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript addresses the temporal patterns in how cholinergic signaling to the gut affects the lifespan of the worm C. elegans, which should make the manuscript of wide interest to those who study aging, as well as those who study the brain-gut axis in health and disease. The authors show that early acetylcholine (ACh) signaling to the intestine via the ACR-6 receptor shortens worm lifespan, which depends on the DAF-16/FOXO transcription factor. However, later ACh signaling to the intestine via the GAR-3 receptor extends lifespan, which in turn depends on the heat shock factor HSF-1. The authors also show a potential mechanism through which these two temporal patterns of ACh signaling might be coordinated to influence longevity in the worm, and possibly in other animals.

      Strengths:

      The authors observed that the functional ablation of acr-2-expressing cholinergic neurons in C. elegans (Pacr-2::TeTx) produced a lifespan curve that intersects the lifespan curve of a wild-type population. The first quartile of Pacr-2::TeTx worms shows a longer lifespan than the first quartile of wild-type worms, whereas the last quartile of Pacr-2::TeTx worms exhibits a shorter lifespan than wild type. These observations raised the hypothesis that cholinergic neurons have two opposing effects on longevity: an early longevity-inhibiting effect and a later longevity-promoting effect. Much of the data support the authors' conclusions.

      The authors have also addressed the points raised in the previous review.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      I very much enjoyed reading Lingxiu Xu et al.'s paper "Temporally controlled nervous system-to-gut signaling bidirectionally regulates longevity in C. elegans," where they investigate the mechanisms by which motor neurons regulate lifespan in C. elegans worms. In this paper, they first discover that interfering with synaptic release in cholinergic motor neurons affects lifespan. Using mutants and gene knockdowns they show that these effects are due to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. They show that the effects these motor neurons on lifespan are opposite, depending on timed genetic interventions promoting synaptic release. If these interventions occur during development, lifespan is shortened, but if they occur starting on day 7 of adulthood, then lifespan is lengthened. They then show that the transcription factor daf-16 is required for the former effect, while the transcription factor hsf-1 is required for the latter one. In addition, these early and late effects, they find, required the acetylcholine receptors acr-6 and gar-3, respectively, and intestinal expression of these genes rescues the respective phenotypes. Interestingly, tagging the endogenous acr-6 and gar-3 genes with mCherry, they find that the ACR-6 and GAR-3 proteins are expressed in the intestine, ACR-6 during development and GAR-3 during adulthood. Based on these findings they propose a model where acetylcholine from motor neurons regulates lifespan by modulating different receptors expressed at different times. These receptors, in turn, affect lifespan in opposing ways via different transcription factors.

      Comments on revisions:

      I am grateful to the authors for their effort to address my comments and suggestions, and for the thoughtful discussion of their efforts to strengthen the claims supporting their model.

    4. Reviewer #4 (Public review):

      This is a very interesting study, where the authors discovered two neuroendocrine signaling circuits with opposite effects on organismal longevity elicited by motor neurons at different ages.

      Interestingly, both systems employ the same neurotransmitter (that is, acetylcholine) and signal the intestine. However, one has effects on early life to shorten lifespan whereas the other system is activated in mid-life to extend lifespan. At the mechanistic level, this bidirectional regulation is possible through the recruitment of two different ACh receptors in the gut: ACR-6 and GAR-3. The authors found that ACR-6 expression in the intestine is restricted to early life, whereas GAR-3 expression in the gut is confined to mid-late life. Interestingly, ACR-6 modulates the transcription factor DAF-16, but GAR-3 regulates HSF-1.

      The study combines different approaches, including inducible systems (AID) which are critical for the conclusions of the paper. The conclusions are well supported by the experiments and results. The data provide a potential mechanism for the temporal control of lifespan and shed light on the complex role of the nervous system in organismal aging. These results can have important implications to understand how organismal aging is regulated in a temporal manner by cell non-autonomous mechanisms.

      The paper has significantly improved after addressing all the Reviewers' comments and I did not observe significant weaknesses in the study.

    5. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      While the authors have proved their hypothesis by temporally increasing the activity of cholinergic neurons at different life stages through the auxin-inducible degron system, their work raises two major concerns. First, they might want to discuss the conflicting data from Zullo et al (Nature 2019, vol 574, pp 359-364). For example, the authors show that increasing the activity of acr-2-expressing neurons after the 7th day of adulthood increases lifespan. However, Zullo et al (2019) show that the reciprocal experiment, inhibiting cholinergic neuron activity on the 1st day or the 8th day of adulthood, also increases lifespan. Is this because the two studies are using different promoters, that of the acr-2 ACh receptor (this work) versus that of the unc-17 vesicular ACh transporter (Zullo et al., 2019)? The two genes are expressed in different subsets of cells that do not completely overlap. CeNGEN shows that acr-2 is expressed in motor and non-motor neurons, but some of these neurons are also different from those that express unc-17. Is it possible that different cholinergic neurons also have opposite lifespan effects during adulthood? Or is it because both lack of signaling and hypersignaling can lead to a long-life phenotype? Leinwand et al (eLife 2015, vol 4, e10181) previously suggested that disturbing the balance in neurotransmission alone can extend lifespan. A simple discussion of these possibilities in the Discussion section is likely sufficient. Or can the auxin treatment and removal be confounding factors? Loose and Ghazi (Biol Open 2021, vol 10, bio058703) show that auxin IAA alone can affect lifespan and that this effect can depend on the time the animal is exposed to the auxin.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful comments and valuable suggestions. In response, we have expanded the Discussion section to address the points raised, as detailed below.

      We fully agree with the reviewer that the different results between our study (activating acr-2-expressing neurons) and Zullo et al. (inhibiting unc-17- expressing neurons) are most likely due to the distinct cholinergic neurons targeted. Our new preliminary data further support this neuron-specific model, as inhibition of acetylcholine synthesis at mid-late life stages produces opposing lifespan effects in different cholinergic neurons. At the same time, we cannot rule out the alternative possibility raised by the reviewer (eLife, 2015) that both activation and inhibition of neuronal activity may extend lifespan by similarly disrupting the balance of neurotransmission. This hypothesis requires further experimental validation in the context of cholinergic motor neurons. Regarding the potential technical concern related to auxin exposure (Biol Open, 2021), our control experiments using 0.5 mM auxin did not show non-specific lifespan effects.

      Accordingly, in the revised manuscript, we have discussed the first two possibilities in the Discussion by stating (page 17-18): “Nevertheless, it is still unclear whether other neuronal populations share similar temporal regulatory mechanisms. A previous study reported that inhibiting cholinergic neurons activity (using unc-17 promoter) extends lifespan regardless of timing[2], which is different from the temporal lifespan regulation we observed in cholinergic motor neurons (using acr-2 promoter). This discrepancy is likely due to differences in subsets of neurons, as the unc-17 promoter labels a broad repertoire of cholinergic neurons, while the acr-2 promoter mainly marks cholinergic motor neurons[53]. Thus, the distinct lifespan-modulating effects of cholinergic motor neurons may be overshadowed by opposing contributions from other cholinergic subtypes when a mixed population is manipulated. Alternatively, both activation and inhibition of cholinergic activity may perturb neurotransmission balance, leading to similar effects on lifespan[54]. It will be interesting to test these hypotheses in future studies.”

      Second, the daf-16-dependence of the early longevity-inhibiting effect of ACh signaling needs clarification and further experimentation. The authors present a model in Figure 6D, where DAF-16 inhibits longevity. This contradicts published literature. Libina et al (Cell 2003, vol 115, pp 489-502) have shown that intestinal DAF-16 increases lifespan. From the authors' data, it is possible that ACh signaling inhibits DAF-16, not promotes it as they have drawn in Figure 6D.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We agree that intestinal DAF-16 promotes longevity. Our original model Figure 6D aimed to show that the larval pathway shortens lifespan by inhibiting DAF-16, not that DAF-16 itself shortens lifespan. The arrowhead style used in the original Fiugure 6D might have given an impression that DAF-16 shortens lifespan. Our apologies. We have now fixed this error in Figure 6D. In addition, as suggested, we have performed additional daf-16 experiments (see below).

      In Figure 3F, the authors used Pacr-2::TeTx, which inhibits cholinergic neuron activity, to show an increase in the expression of DAF-16 targets. Why did the authors not use the worms that express the transgene Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I), which increases cholinergic neuron activity? What happens to the expression of DAF-16 targets in these animals? Do their expression go down? What happens if intestinal daf-16 is knocked down in animals with increased cholinergic neuron activity, instead of reduced cholinergic neuron activity?”

      Thanks for these insightful questions. In Figure 3F-H, we used TeTx instead of syntaxin(T254I) to investigate the function of DAF-16 in the early stage pathway based on the two main reasons. First, Pacr-2::TeTx transgene extends lifespan in early life by inhibiting cholinergic activity, which provides a genetic background complementary to that of syntaxin(T254I) for characterizing the role of DAF-16. Second, TeTx pathway is expected to activate DAF-16 and upregulate its target genes. This approach is more sensitive than measuring gene downregulation in Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms.

      We fully agree with the reviewer that performing the corresponding experiments in the syntaxin(T254I) background would strengthen the overall evidence. As suggested, we have now examined the expression of DAF-16 target genes in Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms, and performed intestine-specific RNAi of daf-16 in the same background. We found that these worms exhibit downregulation of DAF-16 target genes. Furthermore, intestinal daf-16 knockdown did not further shorten the already reduced lifespan of these transgenic worms. Together, these results from both the TeTx and syntaxin(T254I) lines confirms that cholinergic motor neurons require DAF-16 in the intestine to regulate lifespan. These new data has now been described in Figure S5A-5D (page 11-12): “As expected, the expression level of sod-3 and mtl-1, two commonly characterized DAF-16 target genes, was upregulated in transgenic worms deficient in releasing ACh from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure 3F), and downregulated in transgenic worms with enhanced ACh release from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure S5A), consistent with the notion that DAF-16 acts downstream of cholinergic motor neurons.”, and “RNAi of daf-16 in the intestine abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to regulate lifespan at early life stage (Figure 3G, 3H and Figure S5C-S5E).”

      Recommendations for The Authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “The Methods section needs to be clarified/expanded.”

      (a) “For example, are the authors using indole-3-acetic acid or a synthetic auxin? How long does it take for syntaxin to be made after the removal of the auxin?”

      We have now included auxin information and recovery time in the Method for auxin treatment by stating (page 24): “natural auxin indole-3-acetic acid (G&K Scientific)”, and “Expression of syntaxin(T254I) can be suppressed by auxin treatment and restored in 24 hours following auxin removal.”

      (b) “How much FUDR was used in some of the lifespan assays?”

      2 μg/mL FUDR was used in some of the lifespan assays. We have now included the concentration in the Method for lifespan assay by stating (page 23 line 526): “2 μg/mL 5-Fluoro-2’-deoxyuridine (FUDR) was included in assays involving TeTx transgene worms, unc-31 and unc-17 mutant worms, which show a defect in egg laying.”

      (c) “In line 494 of the Methods section, worms were anesthetized with 50 mM sodium azide. That concentration seems a bit high.”

      It is an error indeed. We used 5 mM NaN3. This has now been fixed in the text and in line 548.

      (d) “What are the concentrations of the transgenes used in the extrachromosomal arrays?”

      We have now included the concentrations in the Method for strains and genetics by stating (line 507-509 on page 22): “Microinjections were performed using standard protocols. Each plasmid DNA listed above in the transgenic line was injected at a concentration of 50 ng/μL. Each marker for RNAi was co-injected at a concentration of 25 ng/μL.”

      (2) “Gene expression can vary in different parts of the worm intestine. Do the measurements in Figure 6C represent the entire intestine or only certain parts of the intestine?”

      We have now included the intestine area used for quantification in the Method for microscopy by stating (page 24): “and the entire intestine area was selected by ImageJ”, and in the legends of Figure 6C by stating (page 36): “The entire intestinal area was selected for measurement.”

      (3) “In Figure S1C, does tph-1 have a slight effect? Might serotonin partly counteract the effects of ACh?”

      We thank the reviewer for raising this interesting point regarding the potential role of serotonin. We have re-examined our data in Figure S2C (the original Figure S1C) and agree that loss of tph-1 partly counteracted the lifespan-shortening effect of Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgene in early life stage, thought the whole-life suppression effect is slight. To assess whether the acr-2 promoter-driven manipulation might directly affect serotonergic neurons, we checked the CeNGen. We found that the transcript expression of acr-2 can be detected in serotonergic neurons (ADF, HSN, and NSM), but the levels are extremely low. In this regard, it is unlikely that the Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgene exerts its primary effect by substantially altering serotonin release. While a potential indirect interaction between cholinergic and serotonergic signaling in lifespan regulation remains, it falls beyond the primary focus of the current study. We would like to follow up this in future studies. We have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 9):“As a control, we also tested mutants deficient in other types of small neurotransmitters, including glutamate (eat-4), GABA (unc-25), serotonin (tph-1), dopamine (cat-2), tyramine (tdc-1), and octopamine (tbh-1), but detected no effect, with the exception of tph-1, which showed a modest, partial suppression of the phenotype (Figure S2A-S2F). This observation suggests that the lifespan effects of cholinergic signaling can be modulated by serotonin.”

      (4) “Where else is GAR-2 expressed? Might there be redundancies between neuronal and intestinal GAR-2?”

      We appreciate this insightful question. Based on available single-cell gene expression atlases of C. elegans at both embryonic and adult stages[1,2], gar-2 expression has been detected not only in neurons and the intestine, but also in additional tissues such as the muscle. Regarding the observed lack of effects upon neuronal or intestinal gar-2 RNAi on the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan in mid-late life, and also suggested by another reviewer, we performed muscle-specific RNAi experiments. Together with our previously presented data, the results show that intestinal (but not neuronal or muscle) RNAi of gar-3 abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stages, while muscle-specific (but not neuronal or intestinal) RNAi of gar-2 suppresses this effect. This finding indicates that GAR-3 and GAR-2 mediate cholinergic signaling in distinct peripheral tissues, with GAR-3 primarily in the intestine and GAR-2 primarily in muscle, to produce their effects on longevity. Given our focus on neuron-gut signaling, the role of GAR-2 in the muscle will be further investigated in future studies. The new data have now been described in Figure S8 by stating (page 13-14): “RNAi of gar-2 in the intestine (Figure 4D and 4E), but not in neurons or the muscle (Figure 4D-4F, and Figure S8A, S8D-S8E), abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stage. Thus, GAR-3 may function in the intestine to regulate lifespan. Surprisingly, RNAi of gar-2 in the muscle (Figure S8A-S8C), but not in neurons or the intestine (Figure S7F-S7H) had an effect on the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan in mid-late life, indicating that GAR-2 acts in the muscle to regulate lifespan.”

      (1) Packer, J. S. et al. A lineage-resolved molecular atlas of C. elegans embryogenesis at single-cell resolution. Science 365, doi:10.1126/science.aax1971 (2019).

      (2) Roux, A. E. et al. Individual cell types in C. elegans age differently and activate distinct cell-protective responses. Cell Rep 42, 112902, doi:10.1016/j.celrep.2023.112902 (2023).

      (3) Chun, L. et al. Metabotropic GABA signalling modulates longevity in C. elegans. Nat Commun 6, 8828, doi:10.1038/ncomms9828 (2015).

      (4) Izquierdo, P. G. et al. Cholinergic signaling at the body wall neuromuscular junction distally inhibits feeding behavior in Caenorhabditis elegans. J Biol Chem 298, 101466, doi:10.1016/j.jbc.2021.101466 (2022).

      (5) “In line 344, please correct "fwork" to "work".”

      This has now been fixed.

      (6) “In line 360, please correct "acts" to "act".”

      This has now been fixed.

      (7) “Please check citations within the main text. Some of the citations do not fit the cited material. For example, in line 112, reference 28 is not about GABAergic neurons.”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out these important details. We have now carefully checked and corrected the citations throughout the manuscript as suggested.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “How are the authors assessing the efficacy of the TeTx manipulations in their strains? Likely TeTx has a concentration-dependent effect. Are there any phenotypes associated with the loss of cholinergic signaling? Also, does TeTx expression in cholinergic neurons alter the neuronal activity of other associated neurons, or alter muscle integrity?”

      Thanks for the question. Our observations show that overexpression of TeTx results in defects including small size, slow growth, egg-laying deficiencies, and severe locomotion impairment, which are all associated with the loss of cholinergic signaling. While we did not directly examine the activity of interconnected neurons in our strains, we tested the muscle integrity by recording muscle reaction to 1 mM levamisole and found that overexpression of TeTx does not affect muscle integrity. To circumvent these pleiotropic complications, we instead employed Syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms, which exhibits only slight locomotion defects, to further characterize the temporal effect of cholinergic motor neurons on lifespan. This data has now been described in Figure S1A by stating (page 6): “Overexpression of TeTx induces characteristic phenotypes of cholinergic deficiency, such as developmental delay and severe locomotion impairment[32], yet does not compromise muscle function (Figure S1A).”

      (2) “The authors are expressing TeTx throughout the lifespan of the animal, including during development. How does this contribute to the organismal phenotype?”

      As described above, chronic TeTx expression from egg stage results in developmental delay, which is similar to the development phenotype of unc-17 mutant worms defective in acetylcholine transmission. However, unc-17 mutation has no effect on lifespan[3], which is different from TeTx overexpression, indicating that the developmental delay caused by TeTx overexpression may not affect the lifespan phenotype.

      (3) Chun, L. et al. Metabotropic GABA signalling modulates longevity in C. elegans. Nat Commun 6, 8828, doi:10.1038/ncomms9828 (2015).

      (3) “A previous study has shown that increasing cholinergic activity by altering ACR-2 expression can cause neurodegeneration (DOI: https://doi.org/10.1523/JNEUROSCI.1515-10.2010). Does overexpressing syntaxin, or AID-mediated degradation of syntaxin cause motor neuron degeneration, which could also contribute to the lifespan phenotype?”

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point regarding potential motor neuron degeneration. In response, we performed confocal microscopy to assess the motor neurons. We found that worms expressing the transgene Pacr-2::syntaxin::mCherry do not exhibit a defect in the number or morphology of labeled neuronal cell bodies compared to control worms expressing Pacr-2::mCherry. This observation indicates that chronic, increased cholinergic activity through syntaxin overexpression, under our experimental conditions, does not induce motor neuron degeneration. This data has now been described in Figure S1B by stating (page 7): “This transgene simply shortened lifespan without causing a pleotropic effect (Figure 1B), and critically, without inducing motor neuron degeneration (Figure S1B).”

      (4) “Figures 1I-1L: The authors do not show how long it takes for the expression of syntaxin to be restored following the removal of auxin from plates. This would be important to assess the age-dependent effects of neuronal signaling.”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. In general, complete restoration of syntaxin expression occurred within 24 hours after auxin withdrawal. We have now pointed this out in the text by stating (the last sentence on page 24):“Expression of syntaxin(T254I) can be suppressed by auxin treatment and restored in 24 hours following auxin removal.”

      (5) “In Figures S1A-E: Although the mutant backgrounds decrease the lifespan of animals expressing the Pacr2::syntaxin(T254I) transgene, the lifespan of these transgenic animals appears to be extended compared to what was shown in Figure 1B. Is this the case? (can these experiments be repeated alongside wild-type N2s to assess if their lifespan is indeed extended compared to the N2?). Also, if so, could it be that the lifespan effects are modified to different extents by other small neurotransmitters?”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. All the experiments presented in current Figure S2 (original Figure S1) were performed with wild-type N2 controls, which are now included in the updated Figure S2. This data shows that, in the Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic background, loss of unc-25 (GABA) or tph-1 (serotonin) leads to a further extension of lifespan, while loss of other genes had no effect. Importantly, while unc-25 mutation also extends lifespan in wild-type worms, tph-1 mutation does not. This observation indicates that the lifespan effects of cholinergic signaling can be modulated by serotonin. We have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 9):“As a control, we also tested mutants deficient in other types of small neurotransmitters, including glutamate (eat-4),, GABA (unc-25), serotonin (tph-1), dopamine ,(cat-2), tyramine (tdc-1), and octopamine (tbh-1), but detected no effect, with the exception of tph-1, which showed a modest, partial suppression of the phenotype (Figure S2A-S2F). This observation suggests that the lifespan effects of cholinergic signaling can be modulated by serotonin.”

      (6) “RNAi of several of the receptors appear to modulate wild-type lifespan. Although I understand that this is not the main focus of the manuscript, the fact that this occurs should be mentioned in the results and discussed later on.”

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 9):“Notably, RNAi of several ACh receptors such as acr-11 appears to shorten wild-type lifespan, whereas RNAi of several other ACh receptors such as acr-9 extends wild-type lifespan, suggesting lifespan-modulating potential of ACh receptors (Figure S3).”

      (7) “Cholinergic signaling and ACR-6 have been previously shown to regulate pharyngeal pumping/feeding behavior. (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jbc.2021.10146”). Could the requirements for ACR-6/cholinergic signaling in longevity be related to caloric restriction/nutritional intake which in turn could be expected to alter DAF-16 and HSF-1 activity? These previous studies should be referenced and discussed.”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have examined the pumping rate of acr-6 mutant worms. Our results showed that acr-6 mutation slightly reduced the pumping rate. As the decrease is relatively minor, we do not expect a major DR effect, though we cannot completely rule out such a possibility. Furthermore, as acr-6 acts in the pharynx to regulate pumping but in the intestine to regulate the role of cholinergic signaling in lifespan, we do not expect this would have a major contribution to our pathway. This new data has now been described in Figure S4I. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 10): Previous data has shown that cholinergic signaling and ACR-6 may control pharyngeal pumping[42]. As expected, we found that acr-6 mutation slightly reduced pumping rates (Figure S4G).”

      (8) “The expectation for the studies in Figure 3/DAF-16, is that animals expressing Ex[Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I)], should have downregulated DAF-16 in the intestine. This needs to be shown through some method (increased daf-16 activation upon loss of cholinergic signaling does not necessarily imply that the converse is also true).”

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful suggestion. The reviewer has suggested us performing additional measurements to confirm that DAF-16 is the downstream transcription factor in the intestine. Specifically, the reviewer suggested testing if syntaxin(T254I) transgene signaling could inhibit DAF-16 activity. We have now followed the reviewer’s suggestion by performing two different assays. First, as also suggested by the first reviewer, we detected the expression of DAF-16 target genes in Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) transgenic worms, which exhibited downregulation of these genes, consistent with the notion that increasing cholinergic motor neuron activity inhibits DAF-16. This data has now been described in Figure S5A. Second, we performed an assay to detect DAF-16 subcellular localization pattern in the intestine. We found that acr-6 RNAi notably promotes nuclear translocation of DAF-16, suggesting that ACR-16 inhibits DAF-16, which is consistent with our model. This new data has now been described in Figure S5E. As suggested by the reviewers, we have now pointed this out in the text by stating (page 11): “As expected, the expression level of sod-3 and mtl-1, two commonly characterized DAF-16 target genes, was upregulated in transgenic worms deficient in releasing ACh from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure 3F), and downregulated in transgenic worms with enhanced ACh release from cholinergic motor neurons (Figure S5A), consistent with the notion that DAF-16 acts downstream of cholinergic motor neurons. To obtain further evidence, we assessed the subcellular localization pattern of DAF-16::GFP fusion and found that acr-6 RNAi notably promoted nuclear translocation of DAF-16, confirming that ACh signaling inhibits DAF-16 activity (Figure S5B).”

      (9) “Similarly, it would be good to have additional lines of evidence that signaling through GAR-3 impinges on HSF1, and that the lifespan effects are not due to non-specific effects of hsf-1 knockdown, which could lead to several un-related deficiencies and compromise lifespan (Figure 5b).”

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestions. The reviewer correctly noted that the observed lifespan effect from hsf-1 RNAi could involve non-specific deficiencies. In response, we performed an assay to detect HSF-1 subcellular localization in the intestine upon gar-3 overexpression by using the strain EQ87 (iqIs28[pAH71(hsf-1p::hsf-1::gfp) + pRF4(rol-6)]). We found that the induced nuclear translocation of HSF-1 was weak. This result suggests that GAR-3 may modulate HSF-1 activity through a mechanism distinct from, or more subtle than, robust nuclear accumulation, or that its effect is highly dependent on the expression level and timing.

      (10) “Figure 6: An N2 control should be provided to assess the specificity of the mCherry signal from the intestine (given autofluorescence in the animals' gut).”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now included the control in Figure S10.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “While the model is consistent with the data, there are alternatives that were not addressed. Additionally, there are some deficiencies in the interpretation of results that should be addressed, in my opinion. Possibly most importantly given the claims, the authors should address an alternative model: that it is the level of acetylcholine signaling that matters. Is it possible that the level auxin-inducible degradation of syntaxin(T254I) in acr-2 expressing cells is age dependent, such that one level increases lifespan and the other shortens it, and that the timing doesn't matter at all? A chronic dose response to auxin concentration would address if the level of syntaxin is a non-monotonic determinant of lifespan.”

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for raising this important alternative model. The reviewer suggested that the apparent temporal effect we observed might instead be explained by an age-dependent change in the efficiency of AID system in degrading syntaxin(T254I) in acr-2 expressing cells. That is, different levels of acetylcholine signaling, rather than timing, produce opposite lifespan outcomes. We agree that this is a formal possibility that our current data cannot fully rule out. On the other hand, other data in the manuscript suggests otherwise. For example, the expression of ACR-6 and GAR-3 in the intestine exhibited a temporal switch in early and mid-late life, providing support for a time-dependent mechanism. In addition, the differential requirement of the downstream transcription factors DAF-16 and HSF-1 in the early and mid-late life, respectively, provides further evidence supporting a temporal mechanism. Thus, while we agree that the possibility raised by the reviewer cannot be formally ruled out, the temporal mechanism we proposed may play an important role.

      The reviewer suggested performing a chronic dose-response experiment with varying auxin concentrations. Actually when we first employed the AID system to temporally manipulate motor neuron output at different life stages, we tested potential effects of auxin concentration. Using the soma-expressed TIR1 system, we found that, restoring syntaxin(T254I) activity from day 10 of adulthood extends lifespan, regardless of whether the prior suppression was maintained with 0.1 mM or 0.5 mM auxin. This suggests that the pro-longevity effect is likely not triggered by differences in the efficacy of prior suppression within this concentration range. We acknowledge that the tested dose range may not cover potential threshold concentrations. Furthermore, we cannot exclude the possibility of a non-linear relationship between auxin concentration and degradation efficiency. We agree that a comprehensive chronic dose-response analysis remains a valuable future direction, and we plan to employ more precise tools in the future to investigate the interplay between signal level and temporal context in lifespan regulation. The auxin concentration data have now been described in Figure S1C-1D by stating (page 7): “Comparable outcomes were obtained with both 0.1 mM and 0.5 mM auxin treatments (Figure S1C-1D).” As suggested by the reviewer, we have discussed the alternative model in the Discussion by stating (page 19): “An alternative mechanism based on differential levels of cholinergic signaling could also contribute to the observed lifespan effects.”

      (2) “Several times, including in several section headings, it is claimed that daf-16 (eg line 205-206) and acr-6 (eg line 185-186) function "early in life". This was not tested, so the claim is not warranted. For instance, these genes could act later in life to respond to signals made or sent early in life, or they could act both early and late, or only early (as they claim).”

      We thank the reviewer for this precise and important clarification. The reviewer is correct that our genetic interventions do not by themselves define the temporal window.

      Our experimental rationale was based on the observation that the lifespan-shortening effect of Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) expression is similar whether it is induced throughout life or specifically during larval stages (early life), indicating the detrimental effect results from enhanced motor neuron output in early life. Therefore, we used the lifelong expression paradigm as a tool to genetically dissect the downstream pathway triggered by early-life neuronal activation. We acknowledge the reviewer's point that this design does not formally prove that daf-16 or acr-6 acts only in early life; they could be required continuously or again later. However, we would like to note that our expression data show that the gut expression of ACR-6 is restricted to early life, which is consistent with a primary early-life function in this context.

      To reflect this more accurate interpretation, we have revised all relevant statements, including section headings. We now consistently state that daf-16 is required for the lifespan-shortening effect of cholinergic motor neuron, rather than claiming it functions "in early life". We have also toned down the discussion regarding their temporal function by stating (page 12): “Because this lifespan-shortening effect results from enhanced motor neuron output in early life and overwrites its beneficial effect at later stages, we propose this signaling circuit mediates the lifespan-shortening effect in early life.”

      (3) “In line 118, they note that such intervention led to a complex effect on the lifespan curve "by initially promoting worm's survival followed by inhibiting it at later stages." I think that while findings from later experiments support a time-dependent lifespan effect stemming from syntaxin function in the cholinergic motor neurons, this experiment's TeTx expression in those neurons is not time-dependent. Lifespan is an endpoint measure, so there is no sense in which a non-timed perturbation has an early or late effect on an individual. Rather, the effect on survival they observed is at the population level, their intervention increases the average lifespan while decreasing the worm-to-worm variation in lifespan.”

      We thank the reviewer for the critical and precise comment regarding our interpretation of the survival curves of TeTx transgenic worms. As suggested by the reviewers, we have revised the text by stating (page 6): “Surprisingly, such intervention led to a complex effect on the population survival curve by reducing both early mortality and the proportion of long-lived individuals (Figure 1A). Specifically, the 25% lifespan of these worms was prolonged, while their 75% and maximal lifespan were slightly shortened, leading to a mean lifespan slightly increased or unchanged compared to that of wild-type worms. This suggests that inhibiting cholinergic motor neurons may exert temporally distinct effects on survival, leading to decreased individual variation in lifespan.”

      (4) “The layout of the plots separating the responses of wild type and mutants to different panels makes it often difficult to interpret the results. For instance, do acr-6, gar-3, and other receptor mutants or knockdowns affect lifespan on their own? If they do, it matters to the interpretation whether they live longer or shorter than the wild type: which of the mutants phenocopy the lack of a lifespan-extending signal that activates them? Which phenocopy lacks a lifespan-shortening signal that activates them? Could they phenocopy the effect of an inhibitory signal? And critically, are the effects of these mutants on lifespan consistent with their model?”

      “The paper would be stronger if they determined when ACR-6 and GAR-3 functions are necessary and sufficient. Is it possible that the receptor doesn't matter, just that there be one of the two expressed in the intestine, and that other mechanisms determine the lifespan response to modulation of syntaxin(T254I)? What does time-dependent knockdown of these receptors do to daf-16 and hsf-1 localization and to the transcription of the targets of these transcription factors?”

      We thank the reviewer for these insightful comments. We have addressed the points as follows:

      As suggested, we have reorganized the lifespan data in Figure S4 to directly compare wild type and mutant/RNAi conditions within the same panels. This new presentation clarifies the autonomous effects of these genes. The data shows that loss of acr-6 or gar-2 (via RNAi or mutation) has minimal effect on lifespan. Notably, acr-8 RNAi shortens lifespan, whereas the acr-8 mutation does not, supporting our hypothesis of tissue-specific or compensatory roles for this receptor, as detailed in our following response to point (5). The reviewer's key question regarding when these receptors are necessary and sufficient is central to our model. We agree with the reviewer that complementary loss-of-function experiments with temporal precision, such as time-specific knockdown of the two receptors, would provide even stronger evidence. To this end, we attempted to generate endogenous degron-tagged alleles of acr-6 and gar-3 to apply the AID system for precise, stage-specific degradation. Unfortunately, despite multiple design attempts and screening efforts, we were unable to obtain homozeygous strains with the desired genomic edits using the same gRNA we used to knock in mCherry or other gRNAs. This is rather frustrating. Consequently, we are currently unable to perform the ideal temporally controlled loss-of-function experiments suggested by the reviewer.

      (5) “Why does RNAi but not mutation of acr-8 and gar-2 suppress the lifespan shortening effect of Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I)?”

      Thanks for this important question regarding the differential effects of feeding RNAi versus mutation of acr-8 and gar-2. The discrepancy likely arises from the potential off-target effects of RNAi. RNAi is not strictly specific as it may target other related genes, generating a non-specific effect, whereas precise mutations in acr-8 and gar-2 alone may not produce the same effect.

      (6) “sid-1(-); Ex[Pacr-2::tetx lives longer than sid-1(-); in daf-16(+) worms in Figure 3G; so it is very hard to interpret the lack of effect of Pacr-2::tetx in daf-16(-) worms, since this transgene behaves differently in sid-1 mutants than in wild type worms. This would be clear if the two plots were combined (appropriately, since it is the same experiment). It looks like daf-16 RNAi has a shortening effect in the sid-1 mutant, but not in in sid-1 mutants expressing Pacr-2::text.”

      Thanks for this helpful suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now merged Figure 3G and 3H into one figure to present as Figure S5F. This combined presentation clarifies the comparison and shows that intestinal daf-16 RNAi shortens lifespan in both sid-1 mutants and sid-1 mutants expressing Pacr-2::TeTx.

      Reviewer #4 (Recommendations for The Authors):

      (1) “Lines 50-52: I would replace "leading to increased incidents in age-related diseases and probability of death" with "leading to the onset of age-related diseases and increased probability of death". Instead of "such an aging process" I would use "the aging process".”

      This has now been fixed.

      (2) “Figure 2E-F: By rescuing the expression of ACR-6 in neurons or intestinal cells alone, the authors show that the release of ACh from cholinergic neurons has effects on the intestine to shorten lifespan. Is ACR-6 expressed in other tissues (e.g. muscle?) It might be interesting to assess whether ACh also regulates lifespan through activating the ACR-6 receptor in other tissues or specifically targets the intestine. This question is partially answered with the tissue-specific RNAi experiments for DAF-16, but it is possible that ACR-6 also modulates other pathways beyond the tested transcription factors.”

      Analyzing the role of other tissues could also be applied to understand how GAR-3 influences lifespan. Along these lines, it would be interesting to expand the tissue-specific knockdown experiments for GAR-3 to other tissues. More importantly, these experiments can address whether activation of ACR-6 and GAR-3 can also have different effects on lifespan by regulating distinct tissues in addition to the intestine, and not only due to temporal expression patterns. For instance, whereas DAF-16 regulates lifespan primarily through its effects in the intestine, HSF1 could have effects on additional tissues. Although it would interesting to perform these experiments, I understand that the authors main focus is the nervous system-gut axis.

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful suggestions regarding the potential tissue-specific functions of ACR-6 and GAR-3. As noted in our response to point #6, endogenous expression imaging indicates that ACR-6 and GAR-3 are primarily expressed in neurons and the intestine with weak expression of GAR-3 in the muscle, so we tested the muscle. We found that muscle-specific RNAi of gar-2 abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stages, whereas muscle-specific RNAi of gar-3 does not. This result further supports that GAR-3 primarily exerts this effect in the intestine.

      (3) “Can the authors specify in the corresponding figure legend at what age they tested sod-3 and mtl-1 expression in Pacr-2::TeTx worms (Figure 3F)? This is important to support the conclusions of the paper. Along these lines, can the authors also specify at what age they quantified the expression of HSF-1 targets (Figure 5F).”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As recommended, we have now provided the worm age in Figure 3F (day 1 adult) and Figure 5F legends (day 10 adult).

      (4) “To further strengthen the authors' conclusions, it might be interesting to examine the intracellular localization of DAF-16 in the intestine of Pacr-2::TeTx and syntaxin(T254I) worms compared to controls.”

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion, which was also raised by another reviewer. In response, we examined the subcellular localization of DAF-16 in the intestine. Direct imaging in the Pacr-2::TeTx or Pacr-2::syntaxin(T254I) backgrounds was technically challenging because their fluorescent protein tags (YFP or mCherry) would interfere with the detection of DAF-16::GFP. Therefore, we adopted an alternative approach by modulating the activity of acr-6, the intestinal acetylcholine receptor that transmits cholinergic signals from motor neurons to DAF-16. We found that acr-6 RNAi promotes the nuclear translocation of DAF-16. These new data are presented in Figure S5E by stating (page 11): “To obtain further evidence, we assessed the subcellular localization pattern of DAF-16::GFP fusion and found that acr-6 RNAi notably promotes nuclear translocation of DAF-16, confirming that ACh signaling modulate DAF-16 activity (Figure S5B).”

      (5) “The results with gar-2 RNAi are fascinating. I am very curious (and I assume potential readers too) about what tissues mediate the mid-late life effects of GAR-2 in longevity. Perhaps the authors could add experiments in a couple of other tissues known to regulate organismal lifespan (e.g. muscle). However, I totally understand why the authors focused on GAR-3, especially because both GAR-3 and ACR-6 have effects on the intestine and this is sufficient for the main conclusions of the paper.”

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the insightful suggestion and for highlighting the potential role of GAR-2. In response, we performed muscle-specific RNAi experiments. Together with our previously presented data, the results show that intestinal (but not neuronal or muscle) RNAi of gar-3 abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stages, while muscle-specific (but not neuronal or intestinal) RNAi of gar-2 suppresses this effect. This finding indicates that GAR-3 and GAR-2 mediate cholinergic signaling in distinct peripheral tissues, with GAR-3 primarily in the intestine and GAR-2 primarily in the muscle, to produce their effects on longevity. Given our focus on neuron-gut signaling, the role of GAR-2 will be investigated in future studies. The new data have now been described in Figure S8 by stating (page 13-14): “RNAi of gar-3 in the intestine (Figure 4D and 4E), but not in neurons or the muscle (Figure 4D-4F, and Figure S8A, S8D-S8E), abolished the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan at mid-late life stage. Thus, GAR-3 may function in the intestine to regulate lifespan. Surprisingly, RNAi of gar-2 in the muscle (Figure S8A-S8C), but not in neurons or the intestine (Figure S7F-S7H) had effect on the ability of cholinergic motor neurons to extend lifespan in mid-late life, indicating that GAR-2 acts in the muscle to regulate lifespan.”

      (6) “Figure 6: It seems that the genes are also expressed in the muscle. Can the authors include images of other tissues in supplementary figures?”

      Thanks for the suggestion. As suggested by the reviewer, we have now included images of whole worms expressing mCherry, which was knocked in the endogenous locus off gar-3 or acr-6 by CRISPR in Figure S10. However, we did not detect strong expression of gar-3 or acr-6 in the muscle under the conditions examined, which may be limited by the low endogenous protein expression level of the two genes in the muscle, though the CeNGEN website shows they are expressed in the muscle. Determining the precise spatiotemporal expression profiles of these receptors will likely require more sensitive methods. We plan to address this important question in future studies by using such refined approaches.

    1. eLife Assessment

      In this valuable study, the authors examine transcription and chromatin dynamics during early zebrafish development by simultaneously profiling histone modifications and full-length transcriptomes in thousands of single cells, providing solid analysis that chromatin and transcriptional states are initially weakly correlated in early embryonic cells and become progressively more aligned as differentiation proceeds. The work also supports a model in which promoter-anchored cis-spreading of H3K27me3 contributes to stable gene silencing during development. Future functional perturbations and orthogonal validations will be needed to determine the causal contribution of Polycomb spreading to fate commitment. Overall, the dataset and accompanying analyses provide a robust resource and a quantitative framework for studying chromatin-transcription relationships during vertebrate embryogenesis.

      [Editors' note: this paper was reviewed by Review Commons.]

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This manuscript presents a comprehensive and technically impressive study investigating the interplay between active (H3K4me1) and silencing (H3K27me3) chromatin states and gene expression during early zebrafish development. By applying an optimized single-cell multi-omics method (whole-organism T-ChIC) to profile histone modifications and transcriptomes simultaneously in thousands of cells from 4 to 24 hours post-fertilization, the work addresses a significant gap in understanding how epigenetic states are established and propagated during vertebrate embryogenesis.

      There are several obvious strengths:

      (1) Innovative Methodology: The adaptation and application of the T-ChIC protocol to a whole-organism, multiplexed time-course design is a major technical achievement. The generation of a high-quality, paired chromatin (H3K27me3 and H3K4me1) and full-length transcriptome dataset from the same single cells is a powerful resource for the field.

      (2) Novel Biological Insights:

      (2.1) It provides single-cell evidence for the promoter-anchored cis-spreading of H3K27me3 as a mechanism for gene silencing during differentiation, a process that appears largely lineage-agnostic.

      (2.2) It demonstrates that global chromatin states (both active and repressive) are initially decoupled from transcriptional output in pluripotent cells and become correlated as cells mature, suggesting this coupling is a hallmark of identity formation.

      (2.3) It develops a predictive model using TF expression and the H3K4me1 state at TF binding sites to infer lineage-specific activator/repressor functions and epigenetic regulation of TFs themselves, revealing novel roles for factors like zbtb16a and zeb1a.

      There are also several weaknesses for further clarification:

      (1) The study focuses on H3K27me3 and H3K4me1. Why these two specific histone modifications were chosen as the primary focus for this study on early fate commitment?

      (2) There are some similar single-cell techniques available (histone modifications and transcription from the same single cell), what is the performance of T-ChIC when comparing to other methods?

      Comments on revised version:

      Other histone modifications and TFs, or even DNA methylation could be tested to see the robustness of T-ChIC.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Joint analysis of multiple modalities in single cells will provide a comprehensive view of cell fate states. In this manuscript, Bhardwaj et al developed a single-cell multi-omics assay, T-ChIC, to simultaneously capture histone modifications and the full-length transcriptome and applied the method to early embryos of zebrafish. The authors observed a decoupled relationship between the chromatin modifications and gene expression at early developmental stages. The correlation becomes stronger as development proceeds, as genes are silenced by the cis-spreading of the repressive marker H3k27me3. Overall, the work is well performed, and the results are meaningful and interesting to readers in the epigenomic and embryonic development fields.

      Strengths:

      This work utilized a new single-cell multi-omics method and generated abundant epigenomics and transcriptomics datasets for cells covering multiple key developmental stages of zebrafish.

      Weaknesses:

      The data analysis was superficial and mainly focused on the correspondence between the two modalities. The discussion of developmental biology was limited.

      Overall, the T-ChIC method is efficient and user-friendly, and the single-cell datasets for zebrafish early development are also valuable. Audiences in the field of epigenomic and embryonic development will benefit from this work.

      Comments on revised version:

      The authors have answered my previous concerns.

    4. Author response:

      General Statements

      We thank all three reviewers for their time taken to provide valuable feedback on our manuscript, and for appreciating the quality and usefulness of our data and results presented in our study. We have improved the manuscript based on their suggestions and provide a detailed, point-by-point response below.

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      The authors have a longstanding focus and reputation on single cell sequencing technology development and application. In this current study, the authors developed a novel single-cell multi-omic assay termed "T-ChIC" so that to jointly profile the histone modifications along with the full-length transcriptome from the same single cells, analyzed the dynamic relationship between chromatin state and gene expression during zebrafish development and cell fate determination. In general, the assay works well, the data look convincing and conclusions are beneficial to the community.

      Thank you for your positive feedback.

      There are several single-cell methodologies all claim to co-profile chromatin modifications and gene expression from the same individual cell, such as CoTECH, Paired-tag and others. Although T-ChIC employs pA-Mnase and IVT to obtain these modalities from single cells which are different, could the author provide some direct comparisons among all these technologies to see whether T-ChIC outperforms?

      In a separate technical manuscript describing the application of T-ChIC in mouse cells (Zeller, Blotenburg et al 2024, (Zeller et al., 2024)), we have provided a direct comparison of data quality between T-ChIC and other single-cell methods for chromatin-RNA co-profiling (Please refer to Fig. 1C,D and Fig. S1D, E, of the preprint). We show that compared to other methods, T-ChIC is able to better preserve the expected biological relationship between the histone modifications and gene expression in single cells.

      In current study, T-ChIC profiled H3K27me3 and H3K4me1 modifications, these data look great. How about other histone modifications (eg H3K9me3 and H3K36me3) and transcription factors?

      While we haven’t profiled these other modifications using T-ChIC in Zebrafish, we have previously published high quality data on these histone modifications using the sortChIC method, on which T-ChIC is based (Zeller, Yeung et al 2023)(Zeller et al., 2022). In our comparison, we find that histone modification profiles between T-ChIC and sortChIC are very similar (Fig. S1C in Zeller, Blotenburg et al 2024). Therefore the method is expected to work as well for the other histone marks.

      T-ChIC can detect full length transcription from the same single cells, but in FigS3, the authors still used other published single cell transcriptomics to annotate the cell types, this seems unnecessary?

      We used the published scRNA-seq dataset with a larger number of cells to homogenize our cell type labels with these datasets, but we also cross-referenced our cluster-specific marker genes with ZFIN and homogenized the cell type labels with ZFIN ontology. This way our annotation is in line with previous datasets but not biased by it. Due the relatively smaller size of our data, we didn’t expect to identify unique, rare cell types, but our full-length total RNA assay helps us identify non-coding RNAs such as miRNA previously undetected in scRNA assays, which we have now highlighted in new figure S1c .

      Throughout the manuscript, the authors found some interesting dynamics between chromatin state and gene expression during embryogenesis, independent approaches should be used to validate these findings, such as IHC staining or RNA ISH?

      We appreciate that the ISH staining could be useful to validate the expression pattern of genes identified in this study. But to validate the relationships between the histone marks and gene expression, we need to combine these stainings with functional genomics experiments, such as PRC2-related knockouts. Due to their complexity, such experiments are beyond the scope of this manuscript (see also reply to reviewer #3, comment #4 for details).

      In Fig2 and FigS4, the authors showed H3K27me3 cis spreading during development, this looks really interesting. Is this zebrafish specific? H3K27me3 ChIP-seq or CutTag data from mouse and/or human embryos should be reanalyzed and used to compare. The authors could speculate some possible mechanisms to explain this spreading pattern?

      Thanks for the suggestion. In this revision, we have reanalysed a dataset of mouse ChIP-seq of H3K27me3 during mouse embryonic development by Xiang et al (Nature Genetics 2019) and find similar evidence of spreading of H3K27me3 signal from their pre-marked promoter regions at E5.5 epiblast upon differentiation (new Figure S4i). This observation, combined with the fact that the mechanism of pre-marking of promoters by PRC1-PRC2 interaction seems to be conserved between the two species (see (Hickey et al., 2022), (Mei et al., 2021) & (Chen et al., 2021)), suggests that the dynamics of H3K27me3 pattern establishment is conserved across vertebrates. But we think a high-resolution profiling via a method like T-ChIC would be more useful to demonstrate the dynamics of signal spreading during mouse embryonic development in the future. We have discussed this further in our revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance):

      The authors have a longstanding focus and reputation on single cell sequencing technology development and application. In this current study, the authors developed a novel single-cell multi-omic assay termed "T-ChIC" so that to jointly profile the histone modifications along with the full-length transcriptome from the same single cells, analyzed the dynamic relationship between chromatin state and gene expression during zebrafish development and cell fate determination. In general, the assay works well, the data look convincing and conclusions are beneficial to the community.

      Thank you very much for your supportive remarks.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      Joint analysis of multiple modalities in single cells will provide a comprehensive view of cell fate states. In this manuscript, Bhardwaj et al developed a single-cell multi-omics assay, T-ChIC, to simultaneously capture histone modifications and full-length transcriptome and applied the method on early embryos of zebrafish. The authors observed a decoupled relationship between the chromatin modifications and gene expression at early developmental stages. The correlation becomes stronger as development proceeds, as genes are silenced by the cis-spreading of the repressive marker H3k27me3. Overall, the work is well performed, and the results are meaningful and interesting to readers in the epigenomic and embryonic development fields. There are some concerns before the manuscript is considered for publication.

      We thank the reviewer for appreciating the quality of our study.

      Major concerns:

      (1) A major point of this study is to understand embryo development, especially gastrulation, with the power of scMulti-Omics assay. However, the current analysis didn't focus on deciphering the biology of gastrulation, i.e., lineage-specific pioneer factors that help to reform the chromatin landscape. The majority of the data analysis is based on the temporal dimension, but not the cell-type-specific dimension, which reduces the value of the single-cell assay.

      We focussed on the lineage-specific transcription factor activity during gastrulation in Figure 4 and S8 of the manuscript and discovered several interesting regulators active at this stage. During our analysis of the temporal dimension for the rest of the manuscript, we also classified the cells by their germ layer and “latent” developmental time by taking the full advantage of the single-cell nature of our data. Additionally, we have now added the cell-type-specific H3K27me3 demethylation results for 24hpf in response to your comment below. We hope that these results, together with our openly available dataset would demonstrate the advantage of the single-cell aspect of our dataset.

      (2) The cis-spreading of H3K27me3 with developmental time is interesting. Considering H3k27me3 could mark bivalent regions, especially in pluripotent cells, there must be some regions that have lost H3k27me3 signals during development. Therefore, it's confusing that the authors didn't find these regions (30% spreading, 70% stable). The authors should explain and discuss this issue.

      Indeed we see that ~30% of the bins enriched in the pluripotent stage spread, while 70% do not seem to spread. In line with earlier observations(Hickey et al., 2022; Vastenhouw et al., 2010), we find that H3K27me3 is almost absent in the zygote and is still being accumulated until 24hpf and beyond. Therefore the majority of the sites in the genome still seem to be in the process of gaining H3K27me3 until 24hpf, explaining why we see mostly “spreading” and “stable” states. Considering most of these sites are at promoters and show signs of bivalency, we think that these sites are marked for activation or silencing at later stages. We have discussed this in the manuscript (“discussion”). However, in response to this and earlier comment, we went back and searched for genes that show H3K27me3 demethylation in the most mature cell types (at 24 hpf) in our data, and found a subset of genes that show K27 demethylation after acquiring them earlier. Interestingly, most of the top genes in this list are well-known as developmentally important for their corresponding cell types. We have added this new result and discussed it further in the manuscript (Fig. 2d,e, , Supplementary table 3).

      Minors:

      (1) The authors cited two scMulti-omics studies in the introduction, but there have been lots of single-cell multi-omics studies published recently. The authors should cite and consider them.

      We have cited more single-cell chromatin and multiome studies focussed on early embryogenesis in the introduction now.

      (2) bT-ChIC seems to have been presented in a previous paper (ref 15). Therefore, Fig. 1a is unnecessary to show.

      Figure 1a. shows a summary of our Zebrafish TChIC workflow, which contains the unique sample multiplexing and sorting strategy to reduce batch effects, which was not applied in the original TChIC workflow. We have now clarified this in “Results”.

      (3) It's better to show the percentage of cell numbers (30% vs 70%) for each heatmap in Figure 2C.

      We have added the numbers to the corresponding legends.

      (4) Please double-check the citation of Fig. S4C, which may not relate to the conclusion of signal differences between lineages.

      The citation seems to be correct (Fig. S4C supplements Fig. 2C, but shows mesodermal lineage cells) but the description of the legend was a bit misleading. We have clarified this now.

      (5) Figure 4C has not been cited or mentioned in the main text. Please check.

      Thanks for pointing it out. We have cited it in Results now.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance):

      Strengths:

      This work utilized a new single-cell multi-omics method and generated abundant epigenomics and transcriptomics datasets for cells covering multiple key developmental stages of zebrafish.

      Limitations:

      The data analysis was superficial and mainly focused on the correspondence between the two modalities. The discussion of developmental biology was limited.

      Advance:

      The zebrafish single-cell datasets are valuable. The T-ChIC method is new and interesting.

      The audience will be specialized and from basic research fields, such as developmental biology, epigenomics, bioinformatics, etc.

      I'm more specialized in the direction of single-cell epigenomics, gene regulation, 3D genomics, etc.

      Thank you for your remarks.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      This manuscript introduces T‑ChIC, a single‑cell multi‑omics workflow that jointly profiles full‑length transcripts and histone modifications (H3K27me3 and H3K4me1) and applies it to early zebrafish embryos (4-24 hpf). The study convincingly demonstrates that chromatin-transcription coupling strengthens during gastrulation and somitogenesis, that promoter‑anchored H3K27me3 spreads in cis to enforce developmental gene silencing, and that integrating TF chromatin status with expression can predict lineage‑specific activators and repressors.

      Major concerns

      (1) Independent biological replicates are absent, so the authors should process at least one additional clutch of embryos for key stages (e.g., 6 hpf and 12 hpf) with T‑ChIC and demonstrate that the resulting data match the current dataset.

      Thanks for pointing this out. We had, in fact, performed T-ChIC experiments in four rounds of biological replicates (independent clutch of embryos) and merged the data to create our resource. Although not all timepoints were profiled in each replicate, two timepoints (10 and 24hpf) are present in all four, and the celltype composition of these replicates from these 2 timepoints are very similar. We have added new plots in figure S2f and added (new) supplementary table (#1) to highlight the presence of biological replicates.

      (2) The TF‑activity regression model uses an arbitrary R² {greater than or equal to} 0.6 threshold; cross‑validated R<sup>2</sup> distributions, permutation‑based FDR control, and effect‑size confidence intervals are needed to justify this cut‑off.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We did use 10-fold cross validation during training and obtained the R<sup>2</sup>> values of TF motifs from the independent test set as an unbiased estimate. However, the cutoff of R<sup>2</sup> > 0.6 to select the TFs for classification was indeed arbitrary. In the revised version, we now report the FDR-adjusted p-values for these R<sup>2</sup> estimates based on permutation tests, and select TFs with a cutoff of padj < 0.01. We have updated our supplementary table #4 to include the p-values for all tested TFs. However, we see that our arbitrary cutoff of 0.6 was in fact, too stringent, and we can classify many more TFs based on the FDR cutoffs. We also updated our reported numbers in Fig. 4c to reflect this. Moreover, supplementary table #4 contains the complete list of TFs used in the analysis to allow others to choose their own cutoff.

      (3) Predicted TF functions lack empirical support, making it essential to test representative activators (e.g., Tbx16) and repressors (e.g., Zbtb16a) via CRISPRi or morpholino knock‑down and to measure target‑gene expression and H3K4me1 changes.

      We agree that independent validation of the functions of our predicted TFs on target gene activity would be important. During this revision, we analysed recently published scRNA-seq data of Saunders et al. (2023) (Saunders et al., 2023), which includes CRISPR-mediated F0 knockouts of a couple of our predicted TFs, but the scRNAseq was performed at later stages (24hpf onward) compared to our H3K4me1 analysis (which was 4-12 hpf). Therefore, we saw off-target genes being affected in lineages where these TFs are clearly not expressed (attached Fig 1). We therefore didn’t include these results in the manuscript. In future, we aim to systematically test the TFs predicted in our study with CRISPRi or similar experiments.

      (4) The study does not prove that H3K27me3 spreading causes silencing; embryos treated with an Ezh2 inhibitor or prc2 mutants should be re‑profiled by T‑ChIC to show loss of spreading along with gene re‑expression.

      We appreciate the suggestion that indeed PRC2-disruption followed by T-ChIC or other forms of validation would be needed to confirm whether the H3K27me3 spreading is indeed causally linked to the silencing of the identified target genes. But performing this validation is complicated because of multiple reasons: 1) due to the EZH2 contribution from maternal RNA and the contradicting effects of various EZH2 zygotic mutations (depending on where the mutation occurs), the only properly validated PRC2-related mutant seems to be the maternal-zygotic mutant MZezh2, which requires germ cell transplantation (see Rougeot et al. 2019 (Rougeot et al., 2019)) , and San et al. 2019 (San et al., 2019) for details). The use of inhibitors have been described in other studies (den Broeder et al., 2020; Huang et al., 2021), but they do not show a validation of the H3K27me3 loss or a similar phenotype as the MZezh2 mutants, and can present unwanted side effects and toxicity at a high dose, affecting gene expression results. Moreover, in an attempt to validate, we performed our own trials with the EZH2 inhibitor (GSK123) and saw that this time window might be too short to see the effect within 24hpf (attached Fig. 2). Therefore, this validation is a more complex endeavor beyond the scope of this study. Nevertheless, our further analysis of H3K27me3 de-methylation on developmentally important genes (new Fig. 2e-f, Sup. table 3) adds more confidence that the polycomb repression plays an important role, and provides enough ground for future follow up studies.

      Minor concerns

      (1) Repressive chromatin coverage is limited, so profiling an additional silencing mark such as H3K9me3 or DNA methylation would clarify cooperation with H3K27me3 during development.

      We agree that H3K27me3 alone would not be sufficient to fully understand the repressive chromatin state. Extension to other chromatin marks and DNA methylation would be the focus of our follow up works.

      (2) Computational transparency is incomplete; a supplementary table listing all trimming, mapping, and peak‑calling parameters (cutadapt, STAR/hisat2, MACS2, histoneHMM, etc.) should be provided.

      As mentioned in the manuscript, we provide an open-source pre-processing pipeline “scChICflow” to perform all these steps (github.com/bhardwaj-lab/scChICflow). We have now also provided the configuration files on our zenodo repository (see below), which can simply be plugged into this pipeline together with the fastq files from GEO to obtain the processed dataset that we describe in the manuscript. Additionally, we have also clarified the peak calling and post-processing steps in the manuscript now.

      (3) Data‑ and code‑availability statements lack detail; the exact GEO accession release date, loom‑file contents, and a DOI‑tagged Zenodo archive of analysis scripts should be added.

      We have now publicly released the .h5ad files with raw counts, normalized counts, and complete gene and cell-level metadata, along with signal tracks (bigwigs) and peaks on GEO. Additionally, we now also released the source datasets and notebooks (Rmarkdown format) on Zenodo that can be used to replicate the figures in the manuscript, and updated our statements on “Data and code availability”.

      (4) Minor editorial issues remain, such as replacing "critical" with "crucial" in the Abstract, adding software version numbers to figure legends, and correcting the SAMtools reference.

      Thank you for spotting them. We have fixed these issues.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      The method is technically innovative and the biological insights are valuable; however, several issues-mainly concerning experimental design, statistical rigor, and functional validation-must be addressed to solidify the conclusions.

      Thank you for your comments. We hope to have addressed your concerns in this revised version of our manuscript.

      Author response image 1.

      (1) (top) expression of tbx16, which was one of the common TFs detected in our study and also targeted by Saunders et al by CRISPR. tbx16 expression is restricted to presomitic mesoderm lineage by 12hpf, and is mostly absent from 24hpf cell types. (bottom) shows DE genes detected in different cellular neighborhoods (circled) in tbx16 crispants from 24hpf subset of cells in Saunders et al. None of these DE genes were detected as “direct targets” in our analysis and therefore seem to be downstream effects. (2) Effect of 3 different concentrations of EZH2 inhibitor (GSK123) on global H3K27me3 quantified by flow cytometry using fluorescent coupled antibody (same as we used in T-ChIC) in two replicates. The cells were incubated between 3 and 10 hpf and collected afterwards for this analysis. We observed a small shift in H3K27me3 signal, but it was inconsistent between replicates.

      References

      Chen, Z., Djekidel, M. N., & Zhang, Y. (2021). Distinct dynamics and functions of H2AK119ub1 and H3K27me3 in mouse preimplantation embryos. Nature Genetics, 53(4), 551–563. den Broeder, M. J., Ballangby, J., Kamminga, L. M., Aleström, P., Legler, J., Lindeman, L. C., & Kamstra, J. H. (2020). Inhibition of methyltransferase activity of enhancer of zeste 2 leads to enhanced lipid accumulation and altered chromatin status in zebrafish. Epigenetics & Chromatin, 13(1), 5.

      Hickey, G. J., Wike, C. L., Nie, X., Guo, Y., Tan, M., Murphy, P. J., & Cairns, B. R. (2022). Establishment of developmental gene silencing by ordered polycomb complex recruitment in early zebrafish embryos. eLife, 11, e67738.

      Huang, Y., Yu, S.-H., Zhen, W.-X., Cheng, T., Wang, D., Lin, J.-B., Wu, Y.-H., Wang, Y.-F., Chen, Y., Shu, L.-P., Wang, Y., Sun, X.-J., Zhou, Y., Yang, F., Hsu, C.-H., & Xu, P.-F. (2021). Tanshinone I, a new EZH2 inhibitor restricts normal and malignant hematopoiesis through upregulation of MMP9 and ABCG2. Theranostics, 11(14), 6891–6904.

      Mei, H., Kozuka, C., Hayashi, R., Kumon, M., Koseki, H., & Inoue, A. (2021). H2AK119ub1 guides maternal inheritance and zygotic deposition of H3K27me3 in mouse embryos. Nature Genetics, 53(4), 539–550.

      Rougeot, J., Chrispijn, N. D., Aben, M., Elurbe, D. M., Andralojc, K. M., Murphy, P. J., Jansen, P. W. T. C., Vermeulen, M., Cairns, B. R., & Kamminga, L. M. (2019). Maintenance of spatial gene expression by Polycomb-mediated repression after formation of a vertebrate body plan. Development (Cambridge, England), 146(19), dev178590.

      San, B., Rougeot, J., Voeltzke, K., van Vegchel, G., Aben, M., Andralojc, K. M., Flik, G., & Kamminga, L. M. (2019). The ezh2(sa1199) mutant zebrafish display no distinct phenotype. PloS One, 14(1), e0210217.

      Saunders, L. M., Srivatsan, S. R., Duran, M., Dorrity, M. W., Ewing, B., Linbo, T. H., Shendure, J., Raible, D. W., Moens, C. B., Kimelman, D., & Trapnell, C. (2023). Embryo-scale reverse genetics at single-cell resolution. Nature, 623(7988), 782–791.

      Vastenhouw, N. L., Zhang, Y., Woods, I. G., Imam, F., Regev, A., Liu, X. S., Rinn, J., & Schier, A. F. (2010). Chromatin signature of embryonic pluripotency is established during genome activation. Nature, 464(7290), 922–926.

      Zeller, P., Blotenburg, M., Bhardwaj, V., de Barbanson, B. A., Salmén, F., & van Oudenaarden, A. (2024). T-ChIC: multi-omic detection of histone modifications and full-length transcriptomes in the same single cell. In bioRxiv (p. 2024.05.09.593364). https://doi.org/10.1101/2024.05.09.593364

      Zeller, P., Yeung, J., Viñas Gaza, H., de Barbanson, B. A., Bhardwaj, V., Florescu, M., van der Linden, R., & van Oudenaarden, A. (2022). Single-cell sortChIC identifies hierarchical chromatin dynamics during hematopoiesis. Nature Genetics. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41588-022-01260-3

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important work examines the effects of gaze on valuation signals in the human brain as participants choose between bundles of sequentially presented items food items. The paper provides convincing analyses of how gaze affects participants choice behaviour and how this varies across time. The work will be of interest to neuroscientists working on attention and decision-making.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study builds upon a major theoretical account of value-based choice, the 'attentional drift diffusion model' (aDDM), and examines whether and how this might be implemented in the human brain using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). The aDDM states that the process of internal evidence accumulation across time should be weighted by the decision maker's gaze, with more weight being assigned to the currently fixated item. The present study aims to test whether there are (a) regions of the brain where signals related to the currently presented value are affected by the participant's gaze; (b) regions of the brain where previously accumulated information is weighted by gaze.

      To examine this, the authors developed a novel paradigm that allowed them to dissociate currently and previously presented evidence, at a timescale amenable to measuring neural responses with fMRI. They asked participants to choose between bundles or 'lotteries' of food times, which they revealed sequentially and slowly to the participant across time. This allowed modelling of the haemodynamic response to each new observation in the lottery, separately for previously accumulated and currently presented evidence.

      Using this approach, they find that regions of the brain supporting valuation (vmPFC and ventral striatum) have responses reflecting gaze-weighted valuation of the currently presented item, where as regions previously associated with evidence accumulation (preSMA and IPS) have responses reflected gaze-weighted modulation of previously accumulated evidence.

      A major strength of the current paper is the design of the task, nicely allowing the researchers to examine evidence accumulation across time despite using a technique with poor temporal resolution. The dissociation between currently presented and previously accumulated evidence in different brain regions in GLM1 (before gaze-weighting), as presented in Figure 5, is already compelling. The result that regions such as preSMA response positively to |AV| (absolute difference in accumulated value) is particularly interesting, as it would seem that the 'decision conflict' account of this region's activity might predict the exact opposite result. Additionally, the behaviour has been well modelled at the end of the paper when examining temporal weighting functions across the multiple samples.

      In response to reviewer comments, the authors have explicitly tested for the effects of gaze-weighting over and above any main effect of value, and convincingly shown that these effects are both present in the main regions of interest - namely |SV| and gaze-weighted |SV| in the vmPFC, alongside |AV| and |AV_gaze| in the pre-SMA. This provides clear evidence in support of the notion of gaze-weighting of value signals in these regions.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper the authors seek to disentangle brain areas that encode the subjective value of individual stimuli/items (input regions) from those that accumulate those values into decision variables (integrators) for value-based choice. The authors used a novel task in which stimulus presentation was slowed down to ensure that such a dissociation was possible using fMRI despite its relatively low temporal resolution. In addition, the authors leveraged the fact that gaze increases item value, providing a means of distinguishing brain regions that encode decision variables from those that encode other quantities such as conflict or time-on-task. The authors adopt a region-of-interest approach based on an extensive previous literature and found that the ventral striatum and vmPFC correlated with the item values and not their accumulation whereas the pre-SMA, IPS and dlPFC correlated more strongly with their accumulation. Further analysis revealed that the pre-SMA was the only one of the three integrator regions to also exhibit gaze modulation.

      The study uses a highly innovative design and addresses an important and timely topic. The manuscript is well-written and engaging, while the data analysis appears highly rigorous.

      Weaknesses:

      With 23 subjects the study has relatively low statistical power for fMRI although the within-subjects design and relatively high trial count reduces these concerns.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study builds upon a major theoretical account of value-based choice, the 'attentional drift diffusion model' (aDDM), and examines whether and how this might be implemented in the human brain using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). The aDDM states that the process of internal evidence accumulation across time should be weighted by the decision maker's gaze, with more weight being assigned to the currently fixated item. The present study aims to test whether there are (a) regions of the brain where signals related to the currently presented value are affected by the participant's gaze; (b) regions of the brain where previously accumulated information is weighted by gaze.

      To examine this, the authors developed a novel paradigm that allowed them to dissociate currently and previously presented evidence, at a timescale amenable to measuring neural responses with fMRI. They asked participants to choose between bundles or 'lotteries' of food times, which they revealed sequentially and slowly to the participant across time. This allowed modelling of the haemodynamic response to each new observation in the lottery, separately for previously accumulated and currently presented evidence.

      Using this approach, they find that regions of the brain supporting valuation (vmPFC and ventral striatum) have responses reflecting gaze-weighted valuation of the currently presented item, whereas regions previously associated with evidence accumulation (preSMA and IPS) have responses reflecting gaze-weighted modulation of previously accumulated evidence.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of the current paper is the design of the task, nicely allowing the researchers to examine evidence accumulation across time despite using a technique with poor temporal resolution. The dissociation between currently presented and previously accumulated evidence in different brain regions in GLM1 (before gaze-weighting), as presented in Figure 5, is already compelling. The result that regions such as preSMA respond positively to |AV| (absolute difference in accumulated value) is particularly interesting, as it would seem that the 'decision conflict' account of this region's activity might predict the exact opposite result. Additionally, the behaviour has been well modelled at the end of the paper when examining temporal weighting functions across the multiple samples.

      Weaknesses:

      The results relating to gaze-weighting in the fMRI signal could do with some further explication to become more complete. A major concern with GLM2, which looks at the same effects as GLM1 but now with gaze-weighting, is that these gaze-weighted regressors may be (at least partially) correlated with their non-gaze-weighted counterparts (e.g., SVgaze will correlate with SV). But the non-gaze-weighted regressors have been excluded from this model. In other words, the authors are not testing for effects of gaze-weighting of value signals *over and above* the base effects of value in this model. In my mind, this means that the GLM2 results could simply be a replication of the findings from GLM1 at present. GLM3 is potentially a stronger test, as it includes the value signals and the interaction with gaze in the same model. But here, while the link to the currently attended item is quite clear (and a replication of Lim et al, 2011), the link to previously accumulated evidence is a bit contorted, depending upon the interpretation of a behavioural regression to interpret the fMRI evidence. The results from GLM3 are also, by the authors' own admission, marginal in places.

      We have addressed this comment with new GLMs. The new GLM1 includes both non-gazeweighted and gaze-weighted regressors and finds that the vmPFC and striatum reflect gazeweighted sampled value, while the preSMA reflects gaze-weighted accumulated value. We have now dropped the old GLM3 and added two other GLMs, one that explicitly interacts accumulated value with accumulated dwell, and the other that considers only partial gaze discounting. These analyses all support the preSMA as encoding gaze-weighted accumulated value.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, the authors seek to disentangle brain areas that encode the subjective value of individual stimuli/items (input regions) from those that accumulate those values into decision variables (integrators) for value-based choice. The authors used a novel task in which stimulus presentation was slowed down to ensure that such a dissociation was possible using fMRI despite its relatively low temporal resolution. In addition, the authors leveraged the fact that gaze increases item value, providing a means of distinguishing brain regions that encode decision variables from those that encode other quantities such as conflict or time-on-task. The authors adopt a region-of-interest approach based on an extensive previous literature and found that the ventral striatum and vmPFC correlated with the item values and not their accumulation, whereas the pre-SMA, IPS, and dlPFC correlated more strongly with their accumulation. Further analysis revealed that the preSMA was the only one of the three integrator regions to also exhibit gaze modulation.

      Strengths:

      The study uses a highly innovative design and addresses an important and timely topic. The manuscript is well-written and engaging, while the data analysis appears highly rigorous.

      Weaknesses:

      With 23 subjects, the study has relatively low statistical power for fMRI.

      We believe several features of our study design and analytic approach mitigate concerns regarding statistical power.

      First, our paradigm leveraged a within-subjects design with high total sample counts. Each participant completed approximately 60 choice trials across three 15-minute runs, with an average of 6.37 samples per trial. This yielded roughly 380 observations per participant, providing substantial statistical power at the individual level before aggregating across subjects. This within-subject power is particularly important for detecting parametric effects, as our regressors of interest (|∆_S_V| and |∆AV|) varied continuously across and within trials.

      Second, rather than conducting an exploratory whole-brain analysis that would require larger sample sizes to correct for multiple comparisons, we employed a targeted ROI approach based on well-established regions from prior literature (e.g., Bartra et al., 2013; Hare et al., 2011). This ROI-driven approach substantially increases statistical power by reducing the search space and leverages theoretical predictions about where effects should occur. Our novel contribution that gaze modulation of accumulated evidence signals was reflected in preSMA activity builds naturally on established findings. However, we acknowledge that a larger sample size would provide greater confidence in the null effects and would enable more detailed individual differences analyses.

      We have added a brief acknowledgement of the sample size limitation to the Discussion section of the main text:

      “While our sample size of 20 subjects is modest by current neuroimaging standards, the withinsubject statistical power from our extended decision paradigm (~380 observations per subject), combined with hypothesis-driven ROI analyses and multiple comparisons correction, provides confidence in our core findings. Nevertheless, replication with larger samples would be valuable, particularly for more fully characterizing null effects and marginal findings.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Editor Comments:

      Reviewer 1 in particular makes a number of suggestions for additional analyses that would help to strengthen the evidence supporting your conclusions.

      We thank the editor and the reviewers for the helpful suggestions for improving our manuscript. We discuss our efforts to address each point below.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) To address my concerns about GLM2, the first thing to do might be to simply show the correlation between the regressors used across the three different models (e.g., as a figure in the methods). Although the authors have done a good job to ensure that AV and SV are decorrelated when including them both in the same model, they haven't shown us whether the regressors used in, for example, GLM2 are correlated/similar to the regressors used in GLM1. This is important information for interpretation.

      Thank you for raising concerns about the overlap between different models. We agree that additional information regarding the correlation among sample-level regressors would aide readers in understanding the differences among the analyses. We now include this information in Figure 7 in the Methods section, as requested. While |SV| was uncorrelated with gaze-weighted |SV| (|SV<sub>Gaze</sub>|; Pearson’s r = 0.002, p = 0.848), lagged |AV| was significantly correlated with lagged, gaze-weighted |AV| (lagged |AV<sub>Gaze</sub>|; r = 0.365, p < 2.2 × 10<sup.-16</sup>).

      (2) The acid test for gaze-modulation of value signals would be to show that the gazemodulated signals explain the fMRI results over and above the non-gaze-modulated signals. This could simply mean including SVgaze and SV (and equivalent terms for AV) within the same GLM. Following from point (1), the authors may point out that these terms are highly correlated - yes, but the GLM will then test for the effects of SVgaze *over and above* the effects of SV. (In fact, although I'd normally caution against orthogonalisation - it would here be totally legitimate to orthogonalise SVgaze w.r.t. SV).

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestions for more robust tests of the presence of gaze-weighted signals. For reasons highlighted in our response above, we were initially hesitant to include both types of regressors in the same model due to their significant correlation. However, we now report the results of this analysis in the main text as the new GLM 1. This model incorporates both gaze-weighted and non-gaze-weighted terms. For each contrast we used the same procedures as reported in the main text (family-wise error corrected at p<0.05 and clusterforming thresholds at p<0.005).

      In the vmPFC, we found significant effects of both |∆SV| (peak voxel: x = -14, y = 44, z = -12; t = 3.90, p = 0.0190) and |∆SV<sub>Gaze</sub>| (peak voxel: x = 4, y = 38, z = -4; t= 5.21 p = 0.004), but no effects of |∆AV| or |∆AV<sub>Gaze</sub>|. The striatum also showed a significant correlation with |∆SV<sub>Gaze</sub>| (peak voxel: x = 22, y = 20, z = -10; t = 5.10 p = 0.014), but no other regressors.

      In the pre-SMA, we found a significantly positive relationship with both |∆AV| (peak voxel: x = 4, y = 14, z = 50; t = 4.75 p < 0.001) and |∆AV<sub>Gaze</sub>| (peak voxel: x = 4, y = 18, z = 50; t = 2.98, p = 0.032). In contrast, the dlPFC (x = 40, y = 34, z = 26; t = 6.83, p < 0.001) and IPS (x = 42, y = -50, z = 42; t = 5.16, p \= 0.010) were only correlated with |∆AV|. No other significant contrasts emerged.

      These results provide direct support for the presence of gaze-modulated value signals in the brain, which we now describe in the main text Results section.

      (3) With regards to GLM3, it would help to provide a bit more detail on what the time series looks like for the gaze regressor in this model - is it the entire timeseries of gaze (which presumably shifts back/forth between options multiple times within each trial) which is being convolved with the HRF? This seems different from how gaze is being calculated in GLM2, where it is amalgamated into an 'average gaze difference' within a sample between left/right options, if I understand the text correctly?

      We apologize for the lack of details regarding how we operationalized the gaze regressors in our analyses. You are correct that the gaze regressor was calculated differently in GLM2 and GLM3.

      However, in response to the reviewer’s points above (Major Point 2) and below (Major Point 4, Minor Point 1), we have decided to drop the old GLM3 from the paper while incorporating a revised GLM1 (combining old GLM1 and GLM2) and two new GLMs (see responses to Major Point 4 and Minor Point 1) to provide clearer evidence for gaze modulation of accumulated value in the brain.

      (4) Also, is there not a reason why it isn't more appropriate to interact AV with *previously deployed gaze difference* (accumulated across previous samples) in this model, rather than the current gaze location? The latter seems to rely upon the indirect linkage via the behavioural modelling result, which seems to weaken the claim.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that our original GLM3 approach was limited because it interacted AV with current binary gaze location, which relies on the indirect behavioral relationship we established (i.e., that current gaze is negatively correlated with accumulated past gaze).

      The original GLM2 (which is now incorporated into the new GLM1) implemented something similar to what the reviewer is suggesting as it used gaze-weighted values accumulated across all previous samples. Specifically, in GLM2, the gaze-weighted accumulated value (AV<sub>gaze</sub>) was calculated as the sum of all previous sampled values, each weighted by the proportion of gaze allocated to each option during that sampling period.

      However, to more directly test whether accumulated evidence signals are modulated by accumulated gaze allocation we have now run an additional analysis (GLM2). In this analysis we have revised the old GLM3 to include additional regressors: ∆SV, lagged ∆AV, current gaze location, accumulated dwell advantage, ∆SV × current gaze location, and lagged ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage.

      The two new regressors were defined as follows:

      Accumulated dwell advantage: For each sample t, accumulated dwell advantage represents the cumulative difference in gaze allocation up to sample t-1, calculated as (total dwell left – total dwell right) / (total dwell left + total dwell right). This is a continuous measure from -1 (all previous gaze to right) to +1 (all previous gaze to left).

      ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage: The interaction between accumulated values and accumulated dwell advantage, which directly tests whether brain regions encoding accumulated value are modulated by the history of gaze allocation.

      This approach is conceptually similar to old GLM2’s gaze-weighting method, but allows us to examine the interaction effect more explicitly as a separate regressor rather than having it embedded within the value calculation.

      Here, we found that the pre-SMA showed a positive correlation with the ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage term (peak voxel: x = 8, y = 10, z = 58; t = 3.10, p = 0.0258). Surprisingly, the striatum also showed a correlation with this term (peak: x = -16, y = 10, z = -6; t = 4.07, p = 0.0176). No other ROIs showed significant relationships.

      This analysis provides additional evidence that pre-SMA encodes accumulated value signals that are modulated by accumulated gaze allocation, without relying on indirect relationships between current and past gaze. We now report these results in the main text as GLM2 as follows:

      “To more directly test whether accumulated evidence signals were modulated by accumulated gaze allocation throughout a trial, we conducted additional, exploratory analyses. Specifically, we ran a GLM that incorporated the following two terms: accumulated dwell advantage and ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage, in addition to ∆SV, the current gaze location, and ∆SV × current gaze location.

      We calculated accumulated dwell advantage as follows: For each sample t, accumulated dwell advantage is the cumulative difference in gaze allocation up to sample t-1, calculated as (total dwell left – total dwell right) / (total dwell left + total dwell right). This is a continuous measure from -1 (all previous gaze to right) to +1 (all previous gaze to left).

      We also included the interaction between accumulated dwell advantage and ∆AV (i.e., signed accumulated evidence). This interaction term is positive when gaze is primarily to the left and left has more value or when gaze is primarily to the right and right has more value. This interaction term directly tests whether brain regions encoding accumulated evidence are modulated by the history of gaze allocation. This approach allows us to examine the interaction effect more explicitly as a separate regressor rather than having it embedded within the value calculation itself.

      This GLM revealed a positive correlation between pre-SMA activity and the ∆AV × accumulated dwell advantage term (peak voxel: x = 8, y = 10, z = 58; t = 3.01, p = 0.026). Surprisingly, the striatum also showed a correlation with this term (peak voxel: x = -16, y = 10, z = -6; t = 4.07, p = 0.018). Additionally, activity in the dlPFC was positively correlated with ∆SV (peak voxel: x = -36, y = 34, z = 22; t = 3.96, p \= 0.016). No other ROIs showed significant relations.

      This analysis provides additional evidence that the pre-SMA encodes accumulated value signals that are modulated by the history of gaze allocation.”

      Minor

      (1) "In Trial A, the subject looks left 30% of the time and right 70% of the time. In Trial B, the subject looks left 70% of the time and right 30% of the time. In Trial A, the net input value ("drift rate") would be |0.3 ∙ 7 − 0.7 ∙ 3| = 0. In Trial B, the drift rate would be |0.7 ∙ 7 − 0.3 ∙ 3| = 4." I may be missing something, but isn't this consistent with an aDDM with theta=0, rather than theta=0.3-0.5 as is typically found?

      The reviewer raises an important point about our assumptions regarding attentional discounting. We agree that our approach could be problematic as it may assume stronger discounting than has been observed in the literature.

      To address this concern, we calculated drift on a sample-by-sample basis before aggregating to the trial level. Following Smith, Krajbich, and Webb (2019), for each individual sample within a trial, we computed:

      β = (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>)

      γ = (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>),

      where G<sub>Left</sub> and G<sub>Right</sub> represent the proportion of time spent fixating left versus right within that specific sample, and V<sub>Left</sub> and V<sub>Right</sub> are the instantaneous values of the left and right options. We then averaged these sample-level β and γ values across all samples within each trial to obtain trial-level regressors. This approach preserves the fine-grained temporal dynamics of gazedependent value accumulation that would be lost by calculating gaze proportions only at the trial level.

      Using this sample-level method in a mixed-effects logistic regression predicting choice (left vs. right), we estimated subject-specific values of θ = γ/β. Across our sample (N=20), we found mean θ = 0.77 (SD = 0.21, range = 0.55–1.25). These estimates are somewhat higher than the typical aDDM findings of attentional bias (θ = 0.3–0.5). This may reflect the drawn-out nature of this task relative to prior aDDM tasks.

      Next, we ran a new GLM that incorporated these θ estimates in the sampled value estimates. For this GLM3, we computed θ-weighted sampled-value (|∆_TW_SV|) as:

      TWSV = (G<sub>Left</sub> × (V<sub>Left</sub> – θV<sub>Right</sub>)) – (G_R × (V<sub>Right</sub> – θV<sub>Left</sub>)).

      Similar to GLM1, we computed an accumulated value signal based on the lagged sum of previous samples’ |∆_TW_SV| (i.e., |∆_TW_AV|).

      We found significant positive effects of |∆TW_SV| in the vmPFC (peak voxel: x = -14, y = 44, z = -12; t = 3.57, _p = 0.0270) and IPS (peak voxel: x = 30, y = -28, z = 40; t = 4.58 p = 0.0198), but in no other ROI.

      In contrast, we found significant positive relationships between |∆TW_AV| and activity in the preSMA (peak voxel: x = 0, y = 22, z = 52; t = 4.68, _p = 0.0014), dlPFC (peak voxel: x = 40, y = 32, z = 26; t = 4.32, p = 0.0040), and IPS (peak voxel: x = 44, y = -48, z = 42; t = 6.26, p < 0.0000). Notably, we also observed a significant relationship between |∆TW_AV| and activity in the vmPFC (x = 8, y = 38, z = 18; t = 3.89, _p = 0.0410). No other significant contrasts emerged.

      We now report this additional analysis as GLM3 in the main text, as follows:

      “In our first set of analyses, we implicitly assumed complete discounting of non-fixated information, in contrast with previous studies that have generally found only partial discounting (Krajbich et al., 2010; Sepulveda et al., 2020; Smith & Krajbich, 2019; Westbrook et al., 2020). To verify that our results are robust to inter-subject variability in attentional discounting, we estimated subject-level attentional discounting parameters and then re-estimated our original GLM with new, recalculated gaze-weighted value regressors.

      Following Smith, Krajbich, and Webb (2019), for each individual sample within a trial, we computed:

      β = (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>) γ = (G<sub>Right</sub> × V<sub>Left</sub>) – (G<sub>Left</sub> × V<sub>Right</sub>), where G<sub>Left</sub> and G<sub>Right</sub> represent the proportion of time spent gazing left versus right within that specific sample, and V<sub>Left</sub> and V<sub>Right</sub> are the instantaneous values of the left and right options. We then averaged these sample-level β and γ values across all samples within each trial to obtain trial-level regressors. We then ran a mixed-effects logistic regression predicting choice (left vs. right) as a function of β and γ and then calculated subject-specific values of θ = γ/β. Across our sample (N=20), we found mean θ = 0.77 (SD = 0.21, range = 0.55–1.25).

      Next, for the GLM, we computed θ-weighted sampled-value (|∆SV<sub>θ</sub>|) as:

      SV<sub>θ</sub> = (G<sub>Left</sub> × (V<sub>Left</sub> − _θ_V<sub>Right</sub>)) – (G<sub>Right</sub> × (V<sub>Right</sub> − _θ_V<sub>Left</sub>))

      Similar to the original GLM, we computed an accumulated value signal, |∆AV<sub>θ</sub>|, based on the lagged sum of previous samples’ |∆SV<sub>θ</sub>|.

      We found significant positive effects of |∆SV<sub>θ</sub>| in the vmPFC (peak voxel: x = -14, y = 44, z = 12; t = 3.57 p = 0.027) and IPS (peak voxel: x = 30, y = -28, z = 40; t = 4.58 p = 0.020), but in no other ROI.

      In contrast, we found significant positive relationships between |∆AV<sub>θ</sub>| and activity in the preSMA (peak voxel: x = 0, y = 22, z = 52; t = 4.68, p = 0.001), dlPFC (peak voxel: x = 40, y = 32, z = 26; t = 4.32, p = 0.004), and IPS (peak voxel: x = 44, y = -48, z = 42; t = 6.26, p < 0.0001). Notably, we also observed a significant relationship between |∆AV<sub>θ</sub>| and activity in the vmPFC (x = 8, y = 38, z = 18; t = 3.89, p = 0.041). No other significant contrasts emerged.

      In summary, these analyses provide additional evidence that the vmPFC encodes gaze-weighted sampled value signals and the pre-SMA encodes gaze-weighted accumulated value signals, though other correlations also emerged.”

      (2) The reporting of statistical results in the fMRI could be sharpened - e.g. in the figure legends, don't just say "Voxels thresholded at p < .05.", but make clear whether you mean FWE whole-brain corrected (I think you do from the methods) or whether this is uncorrected for display; similarly, for the peak voxels, report the associated Z statistic at that voxel rather than just "negative beta".

      We agree that it is important to include additional details regarding how we reported the statistical results. We now clarify our procedures in the main text:

      “We report results using FWE-corrected statistical significance of p < 0.05 and a cluster significance threshold of p < 0.005.”

      We now also report the T statistics for peak voxels.

      (3) A couple of the citations are slightly wrong - e.g., Kolling et al 2012 shouldn't be cited as arguing for decision conflict, as in fact it argues strongly against this account and in favour of a foraging account of ACC activity. Similarly, Hunt et al 2018 doesn't provide support for decision conflict; instead, it shows signals in ACC show evidence accumulation for left/right actions over time (although not whether these accumulator signals are gazeweighted, in the same way as the present study).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out these mistakes in our citations. We have revised the references throughout.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In some places, the introduction would benefit from fleshing out certain points. For example it is stated “For instance, decisions that are less predictable also tend to take more time (Konovalov & Krajbich, 2019) and can be influenced by attention manipulations (Parnamets et al., 2015; Tavares et al., 2017; Gwinn et al., 2019; Bhatnagar & Orquin, 2022). The quantitative relations between these measures argue for an evidenceaccumulation process.” It is not clear why the relations between them argue for an EA process, and the reader would benefit from some further explanation.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We agree that the original text did not sufficiently explain why these relationships support evidence-accumulation models. We have revised the introduction to better articulate the mechanistic basis for this claim.

      This revision clarifies these points in the main text:

      “Decisions like this are thought to rely on a bounded, evidence-accumulation process that depends on factors such as the value of the sampled information and shifts in attention. According to this framework, when two options are similar in value, evidence accumulates more slowly towards the decision threshold, resulting in longer response times (RT) and more opportunity for shifts in attention to influence the choice outcome. In contrast, when one option is clearly superior, evidence accumulates more rapidly and the decision is made quickly with less of a relation between gaze and choice. This choice process produces reliable, quantitative patterns in choice, RT, and eye-tracking data (Ashby et al., 2016; Callaway et al., 2021; Gluth et al., 2018; Krajbich et al., 2010; Smith & Krajbich, 2018). For instance, decisions with similar values are more random (i.e., less predictable), tend to take more time (Konovalov & Krajbich, 2019), and can be experimentally manipulated by diverting attention towards one option more than the other (Bhatnagar & Orquin, 2022; Gwinn et al., 2019; Pärnamets et al., 2015; Pleskac et al., 2022; Tavares et al., 2017). Critically, these behavioral measures do not simply correlate; rather, they exhibit precise quantitative relationships consistent with evidence accumulation models (Konovalov & Krajbich, 2019).”

      (2) Some of the study hypotheses also need to be clarified. What are the hypotheses regarding how SV and AV should translate to BOLD in an input vs integrator region? Larger SV/AV = larger BOLD? What predictions would be made for a time-on-task or conflict region? Are the predictions the same or different? Clarifying this will help the reader to understand to what extent the gaze manipulation is pivotal in identifying integrator regions.

      We thank the reviewer for this excellent suggestion. We agree that it is useful to clearly articulate our hypotheses about BOLD signal predictions for different aspects of the model, and why gaze manipulation is critical for distinguishing between them. We have now expanded the introduction to clarify these predictions.

      For input regions, we predicted a straightforward positive relationship: larger sampled value (|ΔSV|) should produce larger BOLD activity. Input regions encode the momentary evidence being sampled (i.e., the relative value of currently presented stimuli). Consistent with prior work (Bartra et al., 2013), we expected such activity in the vmPFC and ventral striatum.

      Critically, we also predicted that these sampled value signals should be modulated by gaze location. The attentional drift-diffusion model (aDDM; Krajbich et al., 2010) posits that attended items receive full value weight while unattended items are discounted. Consistent with prior work (Lim et al., 2011), we expected stronger vmPFC/striatum activity when the higher-value item is fixated compared to when the lower-value item is fixated

      For integrator regions, we predicted an analogous positive relationship: larger accumulated value (|ΔAV|) should produce more BOLD activity. Accumulator regions encode the summed evidence over the course of the decision. Consistent with prior work (Hare et al. 2011; Gluth et al. 2021; Pisauro et al. 2017) we expected such activity in the pre-SMA, dlPFC, and, IPS.

      As with sampled value, we predicted that integrator activity should reflect gaze-weighted accumulated value. Just as inputs are modulated by current gaze, the accumulated evidence should be weighted by the history of gaze allocation over the entire trial.

      Conflict-based models make qualitatively different predictions. Regions implementing conflict monitoring should show increased activity when options are similar in value, regardless of time.

      The conflict account predicts that BOLD activity should scale with inverse value difference: smaller |ΔV| → higher conflict → higher BOLD (Shenhav et al., 2014, 2016). In simple choice tasks, high conflict and high accumulated value are both associated with long RT (Pisauro et al. 2017), leading to ambiguity about how to interpret purported neural correlates of accumulated value. In our task we avoid this ambiguity – we analyze the effect of accumulated value at each point in time, not just at the time of decision. In this case, conflict should be inversely correlated with accumulated value. Moreover, the conflict account makes no predictions about how BOLD activity should be modulated by gaze allocation for a given set of values.

      A more serious concern is the potential link to putative time-on-task BOLD activity. Accumulated value inevitably increases with time, leading to a correlation between the two variables (Grinband et al. 2011; Holroyd et al., 2018; Mumford et al. 2024). This is where the gaze data become particularly important. Time-on-task regions should show no relation with gaze allocation. After accounting for non-gaze-weighted accumulated value, only accumulator, and not time-on-task, regions should show a relation with gaze-weighted accumulated value. The results of the revised GLMs provide exactly such evidence.

      We have edited the manuscript to make clear to readers why our gaze manipulation was not merely exploratory but rather a theoretically-motivated test to distinguish between competing models of decision-related neural activity.

      We have clarified our study hypotheses in the Introduction as follows:

      “We hypothesized that we would find (1) a positive correlation between gaze-weighted |SV| and activity in the reward network (the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC) and ventral striatum), and (2) a positive correlation between gaze-weighted |AV| in the pre-supplementary motor area (pre-SMA) (Aquino et al., 2023), dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (dlPFC), and intraparietal sulcus (IPS).”

      We have also added clarifying text about conflict and time-on-task to the Discussion as follows: “Conflict-based models make qualitatively different predictions. Regions implementing conflict monitoring should show increased activity when options are similar in value, regardless of time. The conflict account predicts that BOLD activity should scale with the inverse value difference: smaller |ΔV| → higher conflict → higher BOLD (Shenhav et al., 2014, 2016). In simple choice tasks, high conflict and high accumulated value are both associated with long response times (Pisauro et al., 2017), leading to ambiguity about how to interpret purported neural correlates of accumulated value. In our task we avoided this ambiguity by analyzing the effect of accumulated value at each point in time, not just at the moment of decision. Under this approach, conflict should be inversely correlated with accumulated value (as higher accumulated evidence indicates less similarity between options). Moreover, the conflict account makes no predictions about how BOLD activity should be modulated by gaze allocation for a given set of option values.

      A more serious concern is the potential confound with time-on-task BOLD activity. Accumulated value inevitably increases with time within a trial, leading to a correlation between the two variables (Grinband et al., 2011; Holroyd et al., 2018; Mumford et al., 2024). This is where the gaze data were particularly important. Time-on-task regions should show no relation with gaze allocation patterns. After accounting for non-gaze-weighted accumulated value, only accumulator regions, and not time-on-task regions, should show a relationship with gazeweighted accumulated value. The results of our analyses provide exactly such evidence: preSMA activity was positively correlated with gaze-weighted accumulated value, even when accounting for previous gaze history and individual differences in attention discounting.”

      (3) The authors allude to there being a correlation between SV and AV on this task, but the correlation is never reported. Please report the correlation with and without the removal of T-1.

      We appreciate the reviewer pointing out this omission. We now report all correlations between SV and both the lagged and non-lagged versions of AV in the Methods section (Fig. 7). SV was significantly correlated with the full calculation of AV (Pearson’s r = 0.27). In contrast, this correlation, while still statistically significant, decreased when compared to lagged AV (Pearson’s r = 0.06).

      (4) When examining relationships between SV, AV, and choice probability, the authors note that a larger coefficient for SV compared to AV is an inevitable consequence of an SSM choice process. Please explain why this is the case.

      The reviewer is correct in observing that this point was not made sufficiently clear in the main text. We have now expanded the explanation in the behavioral results section.

      The key insight is that in sequential sampling models, choices occur when accumulated evidence reaches a decision threshold. Importantly, the perceived value of each sample consists of the true underlying value plus random noise. The final sample (SV) is what pushes the accumulated evidence over the threshold, which creates a selection bias: decisions tend to occur when the noise component of SV happens to be positive and large. This means that the perceived final SV systematically overestimates the true SV, biasing upward the regression coefficient for the effect of SV on choice. In contrast, AV represents the sum of all previous sampled evidence, samples that we know did not lead to a choice. These samples are thus more likely to have had a negative or small noise component, meaning that the perceived AV systematically underestimates the true AV. This biases downwards the regression coefficient for the effect of AV on choice.

      In the net, we expect that even when sample evidence is weighted equally over time in the true decision process, regression analyses will inevitably shower larger coefficients for the effects of SV then for those of AV. This is a statistical artefact of the threshold-crossing mechanism, and not a reflection of differential weighting. We have incorporated this explanation into the revised manuscript to make clear why this pattern is an expected consequence of the SSM framework:

      “The larger coefficient for ∆SV compared to ∆AV is an inevitable consequence of an SSM choice process. In SSMs, a choice occurs when accumulated evidence reaches a threshold. Critically, perceived value for any given sample consists of the true underlying value plus random noise. The final sample (∆SV) is what pushes the accumulated evidence over the threshold, which creates a selection effect: decisions tend to be made when the noise component of ∆SV is relatively large and aligned with the ultimate choice, causing the perceived final ∆SV to systematically overestimate the true ∆SV. As a result, the regression coefficient for the effect of final ∆SV on choice is overestimated. In contrast, ∆AV represents the sum of all previous evidence, which includes samples that were insufficient to trigger a choice and thus more likely to have noise components that favored the non-chosen option. This means that the perceived ∆AV systematically underestimates the true ∆AV. As a result, the regression coefficient for the effect of ∆AV on choice is underestimated. This creates an inherent asymmetry between ∆SV and ∆AV: even when the true decision process weights evidence equally over time, regression analyses will show larger coefficients for ∆SV than ∆AV. For any data generated by an SSM, regressing choice probability on final ∆SV and total ∆AV would produce a larger coefficient for ∆SV due to this threshold-crossing selection effect.”

      (5) It is not clear to me why the authors single out the pre-SMA only in the abstract when IPS and dlPFC also show stronger correlations with AV and exhibit gaze modulation in the authors' final non-linear analysis. Further explanation is required in the Discussion and I would also suggest amending the Abstract because the 'Most importantly' claim will not be meaningful for the reader.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point. In the revised manuscript, we have included several new GLMs, including the new GLM1 that looks at gaze-weighted AV, above and beyond the effect of non-gaze-weighted AV. That analysis only supports pre-SMA. We have now clarified this in the Abstract as follows:

      “Finally, we found gaze modulated accumulated-value signals, above and beyond the non-gazemodulated signals, in the pre-supplementary motor area (pre-SMA), providing novel evidence that visual attention has lasting effects on decision variables and suggesting that activity in the pre-SMA reflects accumulated evidence.”

      (6) Some discussion of statistical power would be warranted given that a sample of 23 is now considered small by current fMRI standards.

      We appreciate the reviewer raising this important issue. We acknowledge that our sample size of 23 subjects (with only 20 having useable eye-tracking data) is on the small side by current fMRI standards. However, we believe several features of our study design and analytic approach mitigate concerns regarding statistical power.

      First, our paradigm leveraged a within-subjects design with high total sample counts. Each participant completed approximately 60 choice trials across three 15-minute runs, with an average of 6.37 samples per trial. This yielded roughly 380 observations per participant, providing substantial statistical power at the individual level before aggregating across subjects. This within-subject power is particularly important for detecting parametric effects, as our regressors of interest (|∆SV| and |∆AV|) varied continuously across and within trials.

      Second, rather than conducting an exploratory whole-brain analysis that would require larger sample sizes to correct for multiple comparisons, we employed a targeted ROI approach based on well-established regions from prior literature (e.g., Bartra et al., 2013; Hare et al., 2011). This ROI-driven approach substantially increases statistical power by reducing the search space and leverages theoretical predictions about where effects should occur. Our novel contribution that gaze modulation of accumulated evidence signals was reflected in pre-SMA activity builds naturally on established findings.

      However, we acknowledge that a larger sample size would provide greater confidence in the null effects and would enable more detailed individual differences analyses.

      We have added a brief acknowledgement of the sample size limitation to the Discussion section of the main text:

      “While our sample size of 20 subjects is modest by current neuroimaging standards, the withinsubject statistical power from our extended decision paradigm (~380 observations per subject), combined with hypothesis-driven ROI analyses and multiple comparisons correction, provides confidence in our core findings. Nevertheless, replication with larger samples would be valuable, particularly for more fully characterizing null effects and marginal findings.”

    1. eLife Assessment

      This manuscript addresses an important and conceptually ambitious question by using a synthetic biology strategy to perturb ATP homeostasis in yeast and examine its causal relationship with lifespan. While the experimental approach and lifespan data are intriguing, the current evidence is incomplete and internally inconsistent, particularly regarding intracellular ATP measurements, transporter directionality, mitochondrial dependence, and the proposed mechanistic model. Substantial clarification, additional controls, and further experimentation will be necessary before the main conclusions can be considered robust and the biological significance of the findings can be fully assessed.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aim to engineer a synthetic system for manipulating ATP homeostasis in budding yeast by expressing the microsporidian nucleotide transporter NTT1, thereby enabling ATP import from the extracellular environment. Using this system, they attempt to test whether intracellular ATP abundance causally regulates replicative lifespan and whether extracellular ATP sensing contributes independently to longevity pathways. The manuscript presents data from ATP biosensing, transcriptomics, mitochondrial perturbations, and microfluidic aging assays to build a dual-mechanism model linking ATP availability, MAPK signaling, mitochondrial function, and aging trajectories.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of the study is its creative application of xenotopic synthetic biology to directly manipulate ATP homeostasis-an ambitious approach that addresses an important and difficult question in aging biology. The use of complementary methods, including single-cell ATP reporters, microfluidic lifespan measurements, and RNA-seq, generates a rich experimental dataset with the potential to reveal multiple layers of ATP-dependent physiological regulation. The manuscript also raises interesting hypotheses regarding extracellular nucleotide sensing and HOG/MAPK pathway involvement, opening conceptual space for future exploration of ATP-based signaling in yeast.

      Weaknesses:

      Despite these strengths, the manuscript suffers from several critical weaknesses that undermine the central conclusions. Foremost, the intracellular ATP measurements contradict key interpretations: NTT1 expression lowers ATP levels, yet multiple sections assert or assume that NTT1 increases intracellular ATP via import. This unresolved contradiction propagates throughout the mechanistic model. The authors do not consider or experimentally address the more parsimonious explanation that NTT1 may be a bidirectional ATP transporter, which would unify many perplexing results. Several important analyses are missing (e.g., transcriptomic comparison of NTT1 cells with vs. without ATP), and key signaling claims lack proper validation (e.g., Hog1 quantification, AMPK controls). Additionally, inconsistencies in figures-such as incorrect scale bars, mismatched ATP measurements, and a conceptual model contradicted by the data-further detract from clarity. As a result, the manuscript does not yet convincingly achieve its stated aims, and the current evidence does not adequately support the proposed causal relationships between ATP homeostasis and lifespan.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work presents interesting findings where the addition of exogenous ATP extends the replicative lifespan of yeast cells in a way that seems uncorrelated with actual increased intracellular ATP levels or mitochondria. To be clear, the addition of ATP to yeast growth media increases the number of cell divisions per cell in yeast. Expression of the NTT1 ATP transporter gene increases intracellular ATP levels according to LCMS analysis, but the effect on replicative lifespan works without the NTT1 gene and without an intracellular increase in ATP (possibly with a decrease in intracellular ATP), so the effect appears to be independent of the effect on intracellular ATP levels or mitochondria, as mitochondria-less R0 yeast cells also have increased numbers of cell division when grown with extracellular ATP. The plots in Figure 5 make it seem like exogenous ATP addition lowers intracellular ATP for both the NTT1 cells and the wild-type cells, and that is not what the data in Figure 2d with LCMS shows.

      As an aside, this seems like a better model for increased tumor cell growth in the presence of increased extracellular ATP, which happens in some cancers.

      Restated, the data suggest they were successful in increasing intracellular ATP by LCMS, but not by queen reporter, and that the seemingly likely increased intracellular ATP was not causative, as cells that did not have an increase in intracellular ATP, but had the same exogenous ATP addition, also gained an increase in replicative lifespan. There could also be two distinct mechanisms extending replicative lifespan to the same degree in these two different strains. More measurements, controls, and analyses are needed to accurately determine what is happening with intracellular ATP levels with age. It is currently unknown if there is any correlation between ATP levels and replicative aging (with properly controlled longitudinal measurements).

      Strengths:

      Longitudinal imaging of single cells. Analyzed ATP levels with two approaches. Creative approach to use NTT1 transporter to increase intracellular ATP levels. Solid replicative lifespan data.

      Weaknesses:

      Mostly unclear about ATP levels with age and the relationship, or lack thereo,f between intracellular ATP levels and replicative lifespan. No idea what this effect depends on, but some ideas what it does not depend on (mitochondria or increased intracellular ATP). Experiments seem to lack biological controls (cells without gfp) for age related changes in autofluorescence (and pH that can affect gfp signal) for the fluorescent microscopy quantifying ATP with age using the QUEEN reporter (seems that way as written); conflicting evidence on ATP levels; lack of LC-MS measurements in old cells; no apparent correlation between ATP levels and replicative lifespan, but that could be wrong - just not apparent from the longitudinal data plots. The LCMS data seems better than the microscopy data on ATP because the microscopy approach seems to lack proper biological controls, and the selection of only the top 40% of pixels to quantify signal seems unjustified as written, and possibly prone to technical artifacts. Figure 2 B&C plots of ATP levels should show what the cells were normalized to. The figures also seem too diluted and should probably be combined or put in the supplements (hog1 western) if they do not relate to the lifespan effect. There seem to be some technical scientific editorial errors, like in Figure 7.

    4. Author response:

      Thank you for considering our manuscript, “Engineering ATP Import in Yeast Uncovers a Synthetic Route to Extend Cellular Lifespan” (eLife-RP-RA-2025-109761) for publication in eLife. We appreciate the time and effort invested by the reviewers and editors.

      We have carefully read the eLife assessment and both public reviews. After thorough evaluation, we believe there is a significant factual misunderstanding that has propagated through both reviews and fundamentally affected the interpretation of our central findings and the overall evaluation.

      We must also express concern regarding the review process duration. We were informed that the manuscript experienced an extended review period (107 days) due to delay from a third reviewer. Ultimately, we received only two reviews.

      The raised problem of our manuscript containing obvious internal contradictions or technical inconsistencies are not due to flawed data but due to a misinterpretation of measurement directionality.

      We also acknowledge the fact that we should more explicitly describe the figure legend 5, and that the methods sections should include the experimental design that led to the reverse correlation of the AU units.

      Together these facts led to the misinterpretation of the ATP measurements presented in Figure 5, specifically the directionality of the fluorescence-based ATP readout by both reviewers. In this essay, arbitrary units (AU) are reversely correlated with intracellular ATP abundance. Higher AU values correspond to lower ATP levels. This inverse relationship was clearly described in the Results section and figures marked with “Low versus High” of the manuscript, but it appears to have been overlooked. As a result, reviewers interpreted Figure 5 as contradicting Figure 2, when in fact the two datasets are fully consistent.

      Because this misunderstanding affected interpretation of the foundational ATP data, it appears to have influenced evaluation of all downstream conclusions. For example, neither reviewer meaningfully engaged with:

      - The identification of distinct cell death trajectories.

      - The mitochondrial dependency of NTT1-associated toxicity.

      - The integration of ATP depletion with mitochondrial function.

      - The distinction between intracellular ATP manipulation and extracellular ATP sensing mechanisms.

      We fully understand that when foundational data appears contradictory, reviewers naturally deprioritize downstream conclusions. However, in this case, the foundational contradiction does not exist it arises from a misreading of the reporter’s scale.

      From the Results section of the manuscript:

      “Our analysis of ATP abundance throughout the yeast lifespan showed that yeast cells are born with low ATP levels, which gradually increase during their lifespan. Some cells completed their lifespan without any observable reduction in ATP abundance, while others showed a drastic decrease in ATP levels during late life (Fig. 5A–D, Supplementary File S3), consistent with previous observations supporting two modes of yeast lifespan, mediated by mitochondrial and/or SIR2 function (42,46–49). Consistent with our data presented in Figure 2, we also observed significantly lower ATP abundance in NTT1-expressing cells throughout their entire lifespan compared to Wt control cells (Fig. 5A–C). Furthermore, these cells displayed significantly reduced mean and maximum replicative lifespan (RLS), directly indicating that intracellular ATP depletion shortens lifespan (Fig. 5D). Next, we assessed RLS and age-associated ATP changes under ATP supplementation. We found that exposing NTT1 cells to medium supplemented with 10 µM ATP restored intracellular ATP levels (Fig. 5A–C) and significantly (p = 4.03E-18) increased both mean and maximum RLS to levels comparable to WT cells (Fig. 5D).”

      This section explicitly explains that Figure 5 is consistent with Figure 2. LC-MS data (Figure 2) show intracellular ATP depletion in NTT1 cells under baseline conditions and restoration upon extracellular ATP supplementation. Figure 5 shows the same pattern longitudinally. The apparent contradiction raised by both reviewers stems entirely from misreading the directionality of the AU scale.

      In the public assessment,

      Concerns are raised about:

      - “Internally inconsistent, particularly regarding intracellular ATP measurements”

      - “Mismatched ATP measurements”

      - “Conceptual model contradicted by the data”

      - “The plots in Figure 5 make it seem like exogenous ATP addition lowers intracellular ATP…”

      These statements arise directly from the reversed interpretation of the AU scale. If the inverse relationship had been recognized, these perceived inconsistencies would not exist. Unfortunately, this misunderstanding then influenced broader interpretations, including the conclusion that the fundamental NTT1 model is internally contradictory.

      Similarly, Reviewer #2 states that LC-MS and QUEEN reporter data conflict and that ATP supplementation appears to lower intracellular ATP. This again reflects the same directional misunderstanding. There is no conflict between Figure 2 and Figure 5. Both show reduced ATP in NTT1 cells and restoration upon ATP supplementation.

      A second major point concerns the bidirectional transporter hypothesis. Reviewer #1 suggests that NTT1 may be bidirectional. However, NTT1 is well-characterized in the literature as a nucleotide transporter that exchanges extracellular ATP for intracellular ADP. We clearly described this in Figure 1C and cited the appropriate primary literature. The suggestion that we failed to consider directionality appears to stem from the same misinterpretation of intracellular ATP levels. We agree that clarifying the role of ADP/AMP depletion in NTT1-expressing cells would strengthen the manuscript, and we are prepared to revise the text to more explicitly describe how intracellular nucleotide exchange dynamics contribute to ATP depletion under baseline conditions.

      We also note that several criticisms, such as:

      -“Incorrect scale bars”

      - “Figure 5C does not match 5AB”

      - “Conceptual model contradicted by the data”

      - “No apparent correlation between ATP levels and lifespan”

      Are all rooted in this central misunderstanding of how ATP abundance is represented in the fluorescence measurements.

      To address this constructively during the next revision, we are willing to:

      (1) Revise all relevant figure legends to explicitly state that AU values are inversely correlated with ATP abundance. We will expand materials and methods section for clarifying reverse correlation and/or will generate new figures to minimize the confusion.

      (2) Add clarifying annotations directly onto the figures.

      (3) Include new figures for further validation of observed nucleotide changes.

      (4) We will expand our RNAseq data analyses.

      (5) Expand discussion of nucleotide exchange dynamics and transporter directionality

      (6) Adress remaining concerns with additional analyses, experiments and clarification throughout the manuscript.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study presents an important new method for probing the DNA and proteins associated with targeted chromatin domains in cells. The authors present solid evidence that the method can map DNA-DNA interactions for individual loci and can detect proteins enriched near repetitive DNA loci or targeted gene clusters. The methodological details of this study will be of particular interest and utility to chromatin biologists.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The new experiments on the HOX and XIC look strong. A limited (conservative) number of proteins are determined to be enriched at the respective loci. And the number of cells used is a good advancement for these kinds of methods.

      Unfortunately, the warnings about mitochondrial to nuclear comparisons and validations do not appear to be taken seriously. It's not that "...there could be non-specific nuclear comparison." There are definitely non-specific enriched proteins. Minimizing false positives is the responsibility of those developing the method and generating the hit lists. I think you saying our probes go to where they are supposed to and label the proteins in that compartment is fine. But that is as far as that should go. Any non-validated protein hits in those comparisons need to be removed. It will contaminate the literature by having all the proteins in 1E, S4D-F, and S5 reported (even though it appears there is no tables reporting the new proteins claimed to be associated with that locus. Why is that?).

      I think the line "...we have not made any claims about new proteins at specific loci." is the heart of the issue. What is the point of this method then? Isn't it to identify unknown proteins at a locus of interest? Without that, it's just generating a long list of proteins, where an unknown number of which are likely erroneous, and highlighting the ones you already knew to be there. Along those lines, it is not validation to show proteins that we already knew were at a locus are at the locus. Validation is developing a method to help find new things, then testing those new things to confirm the new method's fidelity.

      The comparison of OMAP identified proteins to the several other methods that look at similar regions is not there. A Figure 1F is referred to in the rebuttal but is not in the manuscript. If you mean the Bioplex comparison, that is not the goal. The goal of this analysis to see how much overlap, if any, is being identified across methods. OMAP has so many proteins claimed to be associated with telomeres that are not tested or validated, it would be nice if other methods see similar ones.

      Minor points: You have now done label free proteomics. A) Methodological details are needed. It is not clear if you mean MS1 or DIA based quant. B) Do you need all the language about how multiplexed proteomics is enabling this methods?

      Labeling the all the enriched proteins in the volcano plots would be nice. I don't want to see just the "relevant" ones that support your claims. I want to see all the "new" ones your discovery method is claiming to discover.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      The authors introduce DNA O-MAP, a method that combines oligo-based in situ hybridization with peroxidase-mediated proximity biotinylation to profile proteins and DNA-DNA interactions linked to targeted genomic regions. In the revised manuscript, they expand the method beyond repetitive elements by profiling non-repetitive gene clusters (HOXA and HOXB), studying inhibitor-induced chromatin remodeling, and differentiating homolog-specific proteomes on both the active and inactive X chromosome. These additions considerably broaden the scope of the work and indicate that DNA O-MAP is currently most effective for analyzing gene-cluster size or domain-level chromatin environments, rather than focusing on individual promoters or cis-regulatory elements.

      Strengths

      The study demonstrates that DNA O-MAP can be applied to both repetitive domains and non-repetitive genomic regions, including gene clusters spanning 80 kilobases and larger single-copy chromosomal intervals, rather than isolated cis-regulatory elements.

      Orthogonal validation using ENCODE ChIP-seq data supports several differentially enriched proteins observed between the HOXA and HOXB gene clusters proteomes.

      The ability to detect quantitative changes in local protein environments after chemical perturbation demonstrates the method's sensitivity at the level of extended genomic domains.

      Homolog-resolved analysis of the active and inactive X chromosome provides an additional demonstration of biological specificity and technical flexibility at the megabase scale.

      The revised manuscript appropriately frames DNA O-MAP as a method for interrogating local domain-level genomic environments, rather than exhaustively defining the protein composition of individual regulatory elements.

      Weaknesses

      As with all proximity labeling approaches, the effective resolution of DNA O-MAP is constrained by the spatial distance of peroxidase-mediated labeling rather than by genomic distance. Consequently, for gene-cluster-scale targets, enrichment extends beyond the targeted interval into surrounding chromosomal regions, potentially limiting the method's specificity at the level of individual promoters, enhancers, or gene bodies.

      Specificity is demonstrated through comparative and internally controlled analyses rather than through a quantitative estimate of false discovery rate for locus specificity. Readers should therefore interpret individual protein enrichments as indicative of local chromatin environments rather than definitive evidence of direct binding to a specific regulatory element.

      Orthogonal validation is necessarily selective and hypothesis-driven. A broader validation would be required before newly enriched proteins can be interpreted as bona fide region-resident factors.

      Comparisons to prior locus-proteomics methods remain indirect and should be interpreted primarily in terms of demonstrated feasibility, scalability, and reduced cell-number requirements rather than absolute performance or resolution.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Significance of the Findings:

      The study by Liu et al. presents a novel method, DNA-O-MAP, which combines locus-specific hybridisation with proximity biotinylation to isolate specific genomic regions and their associated proteins. The potential significance of this approach lies in its purported ability to target genomic loci with heightened specificity by enabling extensive washing prior to the biotinylation reaction, theoretically improving the signal-to-noise ratio when compared with other methods such as dCas9-based techniques. Should the method prove successful, it could represent a notable advancement in the field of chromatin biology, particularly in establishing the proteomes of individual chromatin regions-an extremely challenging objective that has not yet been comprehensively addressed by existing methodologies.

      Strength of the Evidence:

      The evidence presented by the authors is somewhat mixed, and the robustness of the findings appears to be preliminary at this stage. While certain data indicate that DNA-O-MAP may function effectively for repetitive DNA regions, a number of the claims made in the manuscript are either unsupported or require further substantiation. There are significant concerns about the resolution of the method, with substantial biotinylation signals extending well beyond the intended target regions (megabases around the target), suggesting a lack of specificity and poor resolution, particularly for smaller loci. Furthermore, comparisons with previous techniques are unfounded since the authors have not provided direct comparisons with the same mass spectrometry (MS) equipment and protocols. Additionally, although the authors assert an advantage in multiplexing, this claim appears overstated, as previous methods could achieve similar outcomes through TMT multiplexing. Therefore, while the method has potential, the evidence requires more rigorous support, comprehensive benchmarking, and further experimental validation to demonstrate the claimed improvements in specificity and practical applicability.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors describe a method to probe both the proteins associated with genomic elements in cells, as well as 3D contacts between sites in chromatin. The approach is interesting and promising, and it is great to see a proximity labeling method like this that can make both proteins and 3D contacts. It utilizes DNA oligomers, which will likely make it a widely adopted method. However, the manuscript over-interprets its successes, which are likely due to the limited appropriate controls, and of any validation experiments. I think the study requires better proteomic controls, and some validation experiments of the "new" proteins and 3D contacts described. In addition, toning down the claims made in the paper would assist those looking to implement one of the various available proximity labeling methods and would make this manuscript more reliable to non-experts.

      Strengths:

      (1) The mapping of 3D contacts for 20 kb regions using proximity labeling is beautiful.

      (2) The use of in situ hybridization will probably improve background and specificity.

      (3) The use of fixed cells should prove enabling and is a strong alternative to similar, living cell methods.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) A major drawback to the experimental approach of this study is the "multiplexed comparisons". Using the mtDNA as a comparator is not a great comparison - there is no reason to think the telomeres/centrosomes would look like mtDNA as a whole. The mito proteome is much less complex. It is going to provide a large number of false positives. The centromere/telomere comparison is ok, if one is interested in what's different between those two repetitive elements.

      We appreciate the reviewers' point here. In fact we selected the mitochondrial DNA as a target for just the reason that the reviewer notes. mtDNA should be spatially distinct from the nuclear targets and allow us to determine if we were in fact seeing spatially distinct proteins at the interorganelle (mtDNA vs. telomeres/centrosomes) and intraorganelle (telomeres vs centromeres) levels.

      But the more realistic use case of this method would be "what is at a specific genomic element"? A purely nuclear-localized control would be needed for that. Or a genomic element that has nothing interesting at it (I do not know of one).

      We have now added two studies in Figure 4 and Figure 5 detailing the use of OMAP to investigate specific genomic elements. In this case the Hox clusters (HOXA and HOXB) and haplotype-specific analysis of X-chromosome inactivation centers in female murine (EY.T4) cells. The controls in these cases are more specific, in line with those suggested by the reviewer as we (1) compare HOXA and HOXB with or without EZH2 inhibition using the same sets of probes and (2) specifically compare the region surrounding the XIC in female cells for the inactive and active X chromosomes.

      You can see this in the label-free work: non-specific, nuclear GO terms are enriched likely due to the random plus non-random labeling in the nucleus. What would a Telo vs general nucleus GSEA look like? (GSEA should be used for quantitative data, no GO). That would provide some specificity. Figures 2G and S4A are encouraging, but a) these proteins are largely sequestered in their respective locations, and b) no validation by an orthogonal method like ChIP or Cut and Run/Tag is used.

      We performed GSEA on the enrichment scores for the label-free proteomics data from the SAINT output in Figure 1D and that several of these proteins (e.g., those highlighted in Figure 2A: TERF1, CENPN, TOM70) have already been extensively validated to co-localize to these locations.

      To the reviewers request for additional validation, we analyzed ChIP-seq data for several proteins to determine if they were enriched surrounding specific loci. In the case of the HoxA/B analysis, we found that HDAC3 and TCF12 were enriched at HOXB compared to HOXA, and SMARCB1 and ZC3H13 were enriched at HOXA compared to HOXB (Figure 4C). HDAC3 and TCF12 ChIP data confirmed increased peak calls at HOXB and SMARCB1 and ZC3H13 ChIP data confirmed increased peak calls at HOXA for these four selected proteins (Figure 4D).

      You can also see this in the enormous number of "enriched" proteins in the supplemental volcano plots. The hypothesis-supporting ones are labeled, but do the authors really believe all of those proteins are specific to the loci being looked at? Maybe compared to mitochondria, but it's hard to believe there are not a lot of false positives in those blue clouds. I believe the authors are more seeing mito vs nucleus + Telo than the stated comparison. For example, if you have no labeling in the nucleus in the control (Figures 1C and 2C) you cannot separate background labeling from specific labeling. Same with mito vs. nuc+Telo. It is not the proper control to say what is specifically at the Telo.

      We agree with the reviewer that compared to mitochondrial targeting, there could be non-specific nuclear comparisons. We note again though that we purposefully stayed away from using the word “specifically” when describing the proteomics work developed here. The reason being that we are not atlasing a large number of targets to define specificity. Instead, we highlight in Figure 2 that we did observe differences in proteins associating with telomeres and mitochondrial DNA. That may be non-specific, and in fact, this is also why we decided to include two nuclear targets to determine what might be specifically enriched. Thus, we compared centromeric and telomeric protein enrichment as determined by OMAP and observed consistent differential enrichment of shelterin proteins at telomeres (Figure 2I) and CENP-A complex members at centromeres (Figure 2J). We could have done the relative comparisons to no-oligo controls, analogous to how CASPEX compared targeted analyses to no-sgRNA controls (PMID: 29735997). However, we found that the mitochondrial targeted samples were generally better as a comparator because (1) we have clear means to validate differences and (2) the local environment around DNA is being labeled.

      I would like to see a Telo vs nuclear control and a Centromere vs nuc control. One could then subtract the background from both experiments, then contrast Telo vs Cent for a proper, rigorous comparison. However, I realize that is a lot of work, so rewriting the manuscript to better and more accurately reflect what was accomplished here, and its limitations, would suffice.

      Assuming the nuclear control was the same, It is unclear how this ratio-of-ratios ([Telo/Ctrl]/[Cent/ctrl]) experiment would be inherently different from the direct comparison between Telo and Centromere. Again, assuming the backgrounds are derived from the same cellular samples. More than likely adding the extra ratios could increase the artifactual variance in the estimates, reducing the power of the comparisons as has been seen in proteomics data using ratio-of-ratio comparisons in the past (Super-SILAC).

      (2) A second major drawback is the lack of validation experiments. References to literature are helpful but do not make up for the lack of validation of a new method claiming new protein-DNA or DNA-DNA interactions. At least a handful of newly described proximal proteins need to be validated by an orthogonal method, like ChIP qPCR, other genomic methods, or gel shifts if they are likely to directly bind DNA. It is ok to have false positives in a challenging assay like this. But it needs to be well and clearly estimated and communicated.

      We appreciate the reviewers' point here. To be clear, we have not made any claims about new proteins at specific loci. Instead we validated that known telomeric and centromeric associating proteins were consistently enriched by DNA OMAP (Figure 2). We also want to emphasize that while valuable, the current paper is not an atlasing paper to define the full and specific proteomes of two genomic loci. We instead show how this method can be used to observe quantitative differences in proteins enriched at certain loci (HOXA/B work, Figure 4) and even between haplotypes (Xi/Xa work, Figure 5).

      (3) The mapping of 3D contacts for 20 kb regions is beautiful. Some added discussion on this method's benefits over HiC-variants would be welcomed.

      We appreciate the reviewers' point here and have added the following text to the discussion: “Additionally, we show that this method is also able to detect DNA-DNA contacts through biotinylation of loop anchors. Our approach functions similarly to 4C[86]. However, our approach of biotin labeling of contacts does not rely on pairwise ligation events. Thus, detection of contacts through DNA O-MAP will vary in the sampling of DNA-DNA contacts in comparison.”

      (4) The study claims this method circumvents the need for transfectable cells. However, the authors go on to describe how they needed tons of cells, now in solution, to get it to work. The intro should be more in line with what was actually accomplished.

      We took the reviewers point and have worked to scale down the DNA OMAP experiments while revising this manuscript. As noted in Figure 5, we have been able to scale this work down to work on plates with ~10x fewer cells than with our initial experiments. This is on top of the initial DNA OMAP work in Figure 1 and 2, as well as our additional work in Figure 4, where we are using 30-60 million cells in solutions which is still 10x less material than previous work (PMID: 29735997). Thus, the newest DNA OMAP platform uses ~100x fewer cells than previous work.

      (5) Comments like "Compared to other repetitive elements in the human genome...." appear to circumvent the fact that this method is still (apparently) largely limited to repetitive elements. Other than Glopro, which did analyze non-repetitive promoter elements, most comparable methods looked at telomeres. So, this isn't quite the advancement you are implying. Plus, the overlap with telomeric proteins and other studies should be addressed. However, that will be challenging due to the controls used here, discussed above.

      As noted above, we have added Figures 4 and 5 to address the reviewer concerns by targeting multiple non-repetitive loci (HOXA and HOXB clusters and a 4.5Mb region straddling X-inactivation center on both the active and inactive X homolog). Targeting the regions around the X-inactivation center shows the potential to perform haplotype-resolved proteome analysis of chromatin interactors.

      For the telomeric protein overlap, we tried to do this specifically in Figure 1F, we agree with the reviewer that the controls used dramatically change the proteins considered enriched. The goal of the network analysis was to show (1) that we identify proteins previously observed in telomere proteomic datasets and (2) that we gain a more complete view of proteins based on capturing more known interacting proteins than many previous methods as was noted for the RNA OMAP platform (PMID: 39468212). For example, we observed enrichment of PRPF40A in the telomeric DNA OMAP data. From the Bioplex interactome, PRPF40A was observed to interact with TERF2IP and TERF2, suggesting that through these interactions PRPF40A may colocalize at telomeres. Similarly, we observed enrichment of SF3A1, SF3B1, and SF3B2. The SF3 proteins are known regulators of telomere maintenance (PMID: 27818134), but have not previously been observed in telomeric proteomics datasets, except now in DNA OMAP.

      We have added the following text to the Results to clarify these points:

      “To benchmark DNA O-MAP, we compared the full set of telomeric proteins to proteins observed in five established telomeric datasets (PICh, C-BERST, CAPLOCUS, CAPTURE, BioID)12,14,16,35,36 (Figure 1F). DNA O-MAP captured both previously observed telomeric interacting proteins (shelterins) as well as telomere associated proteins (ribonucleoproteins). We identified multiple heterogeneous nuclear ribonucleoproteins (hnRNPs) previously annotated as telomere-associated, including HNRNPA1 and HNRNPU. HNRNPA1 has been demonstrated to displace replication protein A (RPA) and directly interact with single-stranded telomeric DNA to regulate telomerase activity37–39. HNRNPU belongs to the telomerase-associated proteome40 where it binds the telomeric G-quadruplex to prevent RPA from recognizing chromosome ends41. We mapped DNA O-MAP enriched telomeric proteins to the BioPlex protein interactome and observed that in addition to capturing proteins from previously observed telomeric datasets (Figure 1F), DNA O-MAP enriched for interactors of previously observed telomeric proteins. Previous data found RBM17 and SNRPA1 at telomeres, and in BioPlex these proteins interact with three SF3 proteins (SF3A1, SF3B1, SF3B2). Though they were not identified in previous telomeric proteome datasets, all three of these SF3 proteins were enriched in the DNA O-MAP telomeric data. Furthermore, through interactions with G-quadruplex binding factors, these SF3 proteins are regulators of telomere maintenance (PMID: 27818134). Taken together, this data supports the effectiveness of DNA O-MAP for sensitively and selectively isolating loci-specific proteomes.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      Liu and MacGann et al. introduce the method DNA O-MAP that uses oligo-based ISH probes to recruit horseradish peroxidase for targeted proximity biotinylation at specific DNA loci. The method's specificity was tested by profiling the proteomic composition at repetitive DNA loci such as telomeres and pericentromeric alpha satellite repeats. In addition, the authors provide proof-of-principle for the capture and mapping of contact frequencies between individual DNA loop anchors.

      Strengths

      Identifying locus-specific proteomes still represents a major technical challenge and remains an outstanding issue (1). Theoretically, this method could benefit from the specificity of ISH probes and be applied to identify proteomes at non-repetitive DNA loci. This method also requires significantly fewer cells than other ISH- or dCas9-based locus-enrichment methods. Another potential advantage to be tested is the lack of cell line engineering that allows its application to primary cell lines or tissue.

      We thank the reviewers for their comments and note that we have followed up on the idea of targeting non-repetitive DNA loci (HOXA and HOXB clusters and a 4.5Mb section of the X chromosome on each homolog) in the revised manuscript (Figures 4 and 5).

      Weaknesses

      The authors indicate that DNA O-MAP is superior to other methods for identifying locus-specific proteomes. Still, no proof exists that this method could uncover proteomes at non-repetitive DNA loci. Also, there is very little validation of novel factors to confirm the superiority of the technique regarding specificity.

      Our primary claim for DNA OMAP is that it requires orders of magnitude fewer cells than previous studies. Based on comments along these lines from both reviewers, we performed DNA OMAP targeting non-repetitive DNA loci (HOXA and HOXB clusters and a 4.5Mb section of the X chromosome on each homolog) in the revised manuscript (Figure 4 and 5). For the X chromosome targeting, we used ~3 million cells per condition with methods that we optimized during revision. When targeting HOXA and HOXA, we were able to identify HDAC3 and TCF12 enrichment at HOXB compared to HOXA as well as ZC3H13 and SMARB1 enrichment at HOXA compared to HOXB, which is consistent with ChIP-seq reads from ENCODE for these proteins (Figure 4C, D). Both the HOXand X chromosome work help to address limitations noted in the Gauchier et al. paper the reviewer notes as both show progress towards overcoming “the major signal-to-noise ratio problem will need to be addressed before they can fully describe the specific composition of single-copy loci”.

      The authors first tested their method's specificity at repetitive telomeric regions, and like other approaches, expected low-abundant telomere-specific proteins were absent (for example, all subunits of the telomerase holoenzyme complex). Detecting known proteins while identifying noncanonical and unexpected protein factors with high confidence could indicate that DNA O-MAP does not fully capture biologically crucial proteins due to insufficient enrichment of locus-specific factors. The newly identified proteins in Figure 1E might still be relevant, but independent validation is missing entirely. In my opinion, the current data cannot be interpreted as successfully describing local protein composition.

      We analyzed ChIP-seq reads for our HOXA and HOXB (Figure 4C,D) which recapitulate our findings for four of our differentially enriched proteins. We also note that with the addition of the nonrepetitive loci (Figures 4 and 5), we have performed DNA OMAP on seven different targets (telomeres, pericentromeres, mitoDNA, HOXA, HOXB, Xi, and Xa) and identified expected targets at each of these. The consistency of these data, which mirrors the consistency of the RNA implementation of OMAP (PMID: 39468212), reinforces that we can successfully enrich local proteomes at genomic loci.

      Finally, the authors could have discussed the limitations of DNA O-MAP and made a fair comparison to other existing methods (2-5). Unlike targeted proximity biotinylation methods, DNA O-MAP requires paraformaldehyde crosslinking, which has several disadvantages. For instance, transient protein-protein interactions may not be efficiently retained on crosslinked chromatin. Similarly, some proteins may not be crosslinked by formaldehyde and thus will be lost during preparation (6).

      Based on this critique we have gone back through the manuscript to improve the fairness of our comparisons and expanded the limitations in our discussion section.

      To the point about fixation, Schmiedeberg et al., which the reviewer references, does describe crosslinking requiring longer interactions (~5 s). Yet, as featured in reviews, many additional studies have found that “it has been possible to perform ChIP on transcription factors whose interactions with chromatin are known from imaging studies to be highly transient” (Review PMID: 26354429). We note similar results in proteomics analysis in Subbotin and Chait that state that the linkage of lysine-based fixatives like formaldehyde and “glutaraldehyde to reactive amines within the cellular milieu were sufficient to preserve even labile and transient interactions (PMID: 25172955).

      (1) Gauchier M, van Mierlo G, Vermeulen M, Dejardin J. Purification and enrichment of specific chromatin loci. Nat Methods. 2020;17(4):380-9.

      (2) Dejardin J, Kingston RE. Purification of proteins associated with specific genomic Loci. Cell. 2009;136(1):175-86.

      (3) Liu X, Zhang Y, Chen Y, Li M, Zhou F, Li K, et al. In Situ Capture of Chromatin Interactions by Biotinylated dCas9. Cell. 2017;170(5):1028-43 e19.

      (4) Villasenor R, Pfaendler R, Ambrosi C, Butz S, Giuliani S, Bryan E, et al. ChromID identifies the protein interactome at chromatin marks. Nat Biotechnol. 2020;38(6):728-36.

      (5) Santos-Barriopedro I, van Mierlo G, Vermeulen M. Off-the-shelf proximity biotinylation for interaction proteomics. Nat Commun. 2021;12(1):5015.

      (6) Schmiedeberg L, Skene P, Deaton A, Bird A. A temporal threshold for formaldehyde crosslinking and fixation. PLoS One. 2009;4(2):e4636.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Significance of the Findings:

      The study by Liu et al. presents a novel method, DNA-O-MAP, which combines locus-specific hybridisation with proximity biotinylation to isolate specific genomic regions and their associated proteins. The potential significance of this approach lies in its purported ability to target genomic loci with heightened specificity by enabling extensive washing prior to the biotinylation reaction, theoretically improving the signal-to-noise ratio when compared with other methods such as dCas9-based techniques. Should the method prove successful, it could represent a notable advancement in the field of chromatin biology, particularly in establishing the proteomes of individual chromatin regions - an extremely challenging objective that has not yet been comprehensively addressed by existing methodologies.

      Strength of the Evidence:

      The evidence presented by the authors is somewhat mixed, and the robustness of the findings appears to be preliminary at this stage. While certain data indicate that DNA-O-MAP may function effectively for repetitive DNA regions, a number of the claims made in the manuscript are either unsupported or require further substantiation. There are significant concerns about the resolution of the method, with substantial biotinylation signals extending well beyond the intended target regions (megabases around the target), suggesting a lack of specificity and poor resolution, particularly for smaller loci.

      We thank the reviewers for their comments and note that we have followed up on the idea of targeting non-repetitive DNA loci (HOX clusters and part of the X chromosome) in the revised manuscript (Figures 4 and 5).

      Furthermore, comparisons with previous techniques are unfounded since the authors have not provided direct comparisons with the same mass spectrometry (MS) equipment and protocols. Additionally, although the authors assert an advantage in multiplexing, this claim appears overstated, as previous methods could achieve similar outcomes through TMT multiplexing. Therefore, while the method has potential, the evidence requires more rigorous support, comprehensive benchmarking, and further experimental validation to demonstrate the claimed improvements in specificity and practical applicability.

      We have made the comparisons as best as possible. In fact, we found it difficult to find examples of recent implementations of many of these methods. Purchasing the exact mass spectrometers or performing every version of chromatin proteomics would be well beyond the scope of this work. On the other hand, OMAP has already generated data for three manuscripts. We are making the claim that using the instrumentation and methods available to us, we were able to reduce the number of cells required to analyze a given genomic loci. We then applied TMT multiplexing to further improve the throughput and perform replicate analyses. To fully validate that one protein exists at one loci and no other would require exhaustive atlasing of protein-genomic interactions which would be well beyond the scope of this single paper. Similarly, ChIP for every target identified to assess an empirical FDR would be well beyond the scope of this work.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      In summary, all three reviewers raised major concerns about the limitations of the method, many of which could be resolved by more precise and transparent language about these limitations. If you choose to resubmit a revised version, you should address questions like: What scale does "individual locus" refer to? At what scale can the method map protein-DNA interactions at individual targeted loci, rather than large repetitive domains? What is the estimated false discovery rate for a set of enriched proteins? The eLife assessment for this version of the manuscript is based on reviewer concerns. Note that this assessment can be updated after receiving a response to reviewer comments.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1)The first couple of paragraphs make it sound like your method would exclusively benefit from sample multiplexing with MS-based proteomics. That is a bit misleading. The other stated methods use TMT. They don't use it to compare very different genomic (or compartmental) regions, but there is no reason cberst, glopro or CasID could not.

      A good point and we have updated the manuscript to reflect this. While previous methods generally did not use TMT, they could be adapted to do so and, similar to OMAP, improved by the use of more replicates in their analyses.

      (2) Please make the colors in 1F for the dataset overlap easier to read. 2 and 4+ are too similar.

      We appreciate the comment on making the colors easier to discern. Along these lines we’ve changed the color of “2” to make it easier to distinguish from “4+”.

      (3) Label as many dots as legible in your volcano plots.

      We’ve labeled a number of proteins that are relevant to the discussion in this paper as well as some additional proteins. We feel that additional labeling would detract from the points that we are trying to make in individual figure panels about groups of proteins, rather than general remodeling of all proteins.

      (4) Figure 2E needs a divergent color scheme since it crosses 0. And is it scaled, log-transformed, or both? And compared to what then?

      Figure 2E (heatmap) is z-scaled relative protein abundance measurements based on TMTpro reporter ion signal to noise (“s/n”). We have added additional information to the legend to highlight the information that the reviewer points out here. For the color, we are unsure of what is being asked for, as above 0 is red and below 0 is blue.

      (5) Unclear what you are implying with "...only 1-2 biological replicates." I would omit or clarify.

      Fair point, we have updated the manuscript to omit this section to simplify the introduction.

      (6) H2O2 and biotin phenols might be toxic to living organisms. But so is 4% PFA and ISH. I realize you are trying to justify your new approach but you don't need to do it with exaggerated contrasts. This O-MAP is a great approach and probably more likely for people to adopt it because it's DNA ISH based. Plus, with the clinking, you are likely not displacing proteins via Cas9 landing.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comments about adoption and lack of protein displacement. We’ve scaled back on the claims and added more about limitations owing to crosslinking and ISH.

      (7) How much genome does the Cent regions take up? You state 500 kb for Telos.

      In the text we delineate how large of a region the PanAlpha probes target “The genome-wide binding profile of the pan-alpha probe closely overlaps with centromeres (Figure S1) and covers approximately 35 Mb of the genome according to in silico predictions.” Additionally, we’ve added Table S4 to summarize target locus sizes for all of the included targets.

      (8) You seem to be underestimating the lysine labeling. Is that after TMT labeling and analysis? If so, you're already ignoring what couldn't be seen. I don't think it's that important but you included it, so please describe clearly why it's an issue and how much of an issue it is. How does that relate to lit values? And it's not just TMTpro, it's any lysine labeler.

      We appreciate the reviewers point about specifying the reasoning and the lack of clarity around overall lysine labeling. That 1.38% is the number of peptides with remainder modifications due to formaldehyde crosslinking. For overall acylation of lysines with TMT labels, we generally expect (and achieve) >97% labeling of lysines with TMT reagents as the Kuster and Carr labs nicely demonstrated across a range of labeling conditions (PMID: 30967486).

      Decrosslinking is a critical step generally for proteomics workflows on fixed or FFPE tissues and thus we sought to explore whether we could achieve sufficiently low residual lysine alkylation to enable protein quantitation by TMTpro reagents (or any lysine labeler, as the reviewer notes). For TMTpro-based methods on peptides, this is less of a concern generally as protease cleavage frees new primary amines at the N-termini of peptides which can be labeled for quantitation. But in part since we are describing a proteomics method on fixed tissues we wanted to share these data and the potential inclusion of residual fixation modifications for readers to potentially take into consideration when performing this method.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Liu et al. describe an original locus labelling approach that enables the isolation of specific genomic regions and their associated proteins. I have mixed views on this work, which, in my opinion, remains preliminary at this stage. Establishing the proteome of a single chromatin region is one of the most complex challenges in chromatin biology, as extensively discussed in Gauchier et al. (2020). Any breakthrough towards this goal is of significant interest to the community, making this manuscript potentially compelling. Indeed, some data suggest that the method works for repetitive DNA to some extent. However, much of the data is not very convincing, and in the case of small DNA targets, it argues against the use of DNA-O-MAP.

      In contrast to existing methods, DNA-O-MAP combines locus-specific hybridisation in situ (using affordable oligonucleotides) with proximity biotinylation. A major advantage of this strategy over other locus-specific biotinylation methods is the possibility of extensively washing excess or non-specifically hybridised probes before the biotinylation reaction, theoretically limiting biotinylation to the target region and thus significantly enhancing the signal-to-noise ratio. Other methods involving proximity biotinylation, such as targeted dCas9, do not have this capacity, meaning biotinylation occurs not only at the locus where a small fraction of dCas9 molecules is targeted but also around non-bound dCas9 molecules (representing the vast majority of dCas9 expressed in a given cell). This aspect potentially represents an interesting advance.

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughts and critiques, which we hope have in part relieved concerns pertaining to limitation on repetitive elements. To the latter points, we confirmed this with new specificity analysis that showed labeling to be highly specific to a given probe locus (Figure S3).

      Below, I outline the significant issues:

      The manuscript implies that DNA-O-MAP has better sensitivity than earlier techniques like CAPTURE, GLOPRO, or PICh. The authors state that PICh uses one trillion cells (which I doubt is accurate), and other methods require 300 million cells, whereas DNA-O-MAP uses only 60 million cells, suggesting the latter is more feasible. However, these earlier experiments were conducted almost 15 and 6 years ago, when mass spectrometry (MS) sensitivity was considerably lower than that of current instruments. The authors cannot know whether the proteome obtained by previous methods using 60 million cells, but analysed with current MS technology, would yield results inferior to those of DNA-O-MAP. Unless the authors directly compare these methods using the same number of cells and identical MS setups, I find their argument unjustified and misleading.

      Based on the instrumentation listed, we actually do have a good idea of how sensitivity changes may have affected identifications and overall sensitivity. For example, the CASPEX data was collected on an Orbitrap Fusion Lumos, while our data was collected on an Orbitrap Fusion Eclipse. From our work characterizing these two instruments during the Eclipse development (PMID: 32250601), we do actually know that the ion optics improvements boosted sensitivity of the Eclipse used in our work compared to the Lumos by ~50%, meaning if GLOPRO was run on an Eclipse it would still require >200 million cells per replicate for input.

      It is suggested that DNA-O-MAP is capable of 'multiplexing', whereas previous methods are not. This statement is also misleading. As I understand it, the targeted regions do not originate from a common pool of cells. Instead, TMT multiplexing only occurs after each group of cells has been independently labelled (Telo, Centro, Mito, control). Therefore, previous methods could also perform multiplexing with TMT. Moreover, it is unclear how each proteome was compared: one would expect many more proteins from centromeres than from telomeres (I am unsure about the number of mitochondria in these cells) since these regions are significantly larger than telomeres (possibly 10 to 100 times larger?). Have the authors attempted to normalise their proteomics data to the size (concatenated) of each target? This is particularly relevant when comparing histone enrichment at chromatin regions of differing sizes.

      We agree with the reviewers that this was overstated. In fact the GLOPRO paper notes that they performed a MYC analysis with a previous generation of TMT that could multiplex 10 samples. We have amended the manuscript to be more specific in those contexts. As stated in the methods section, “Samples were column normalized for total protein concentration”, to account for the amount of protein and size of the different targets.

      Figure 1C shows streptavidin dots resembling telomeres. To substantiate this claim, simultaneous immunofluorescence with a telomere-specific protein (e.g., TRF1 or TRF2) is required. It is currently unknown whether all or only a subset of telomeres are targeted by DNA-O-MAP, and it is also unclear if some streptavidin foci are non-telomeric. Quantification is needed to indicate the reproducibility of the labelling (the same comment applies to the centromere probes later in the manuscript; an immunofluorescence assay with CENPB would be informative, alongside quantifications).

      We understand the reviewer’s concern about specificity and reproducibility of DNA-O-MAP. To address this we have added analysis showing the efficiency and specificity of our FISH and biotin labeling for Telomere, PanAlpha, and Mitochondria targeting oligos (Figure S3). We found that biotin deposition was highly specific to the intended targets with an average across the three probes of 98% specificity.

      Perhaps more importantly, the authors suggest that it may be possible to enrich proteins that are not necessarily present at the target locus but are instead in spatial proximity (e.g., RNA polymerase I subunits enriched upon centromere targeting). Does this not undermine the purpose of retrieving locus-specific proteomes?

      The goal of DNA OMAP is to identify a local neighborhood of proteins around a specific genomic loci, similar to GLOPRO. As we note in the work presented in Figure 4 and 5 now, these neighborhoods are inherently interesting for comparison of quantitative changes that occur around a genomic locus.

      Possibly related to the previous issue, when DNA-O-MAP is used to assess DNA-DNA interactions, probes covering regions of 20-25 kb are employed. Therefore, one would expect these regions to be significantly biotinylated compared to flanking regions. However, Genome Browser screenshots indicate extensive biotinylation signals spanning several megabases around the 20-25 kb targets. If the method were highly resolutive, the target region would be primarily enriched, with possibly discrete lower enrichment at distant interacting regions. The lack of discrete enrichment suggests poor resolution, likely due to the likely large scale of proximity biotinylation. This compromises the effectiveness of DNA-O-MAP, especially if it is intended to target small loci with complex sequences. Could the authors quantify the absolute number of reads from the target region compared to those from elsewhere in the genome (both megabases around the locus and other chromosomes, where many co-enriched regions seem to exist)? This would provide insights into both enrichment and specificity.

      Thanks for this suggestion, we have included a new Figure S8 to look at normalized read depth as a function of distance from the genomic target. The resolution of DNA OMAP, like all peroxidase mediated proximity labeling methods, is not dependent on the sequence length of the DNA region, but the 30-40nm of physical space around the HRP molecule that is targeted to the genomic loci. 

      Minor Issues:

      (1) Page 3, second paragraph: It is unclear why probes producing a visible signal in situ necessarily translates to their ability to retrieve a specific proteome.

      We have revised the manuscript to de-emphasize the visible signal aspect of probe targeting and re-emphasize our initial point that the number of probes needed to properly target unique regions makes the use of locked nucleic acid probes cost-prohibitive. The basic point though, we and others previously showed with RNA OMAP (PMID: 39468212) and Apex/proximity labeling strategies, the ability to deposit biotin and visualize generally directly translates to recovery of proximally labeled proteins (PMID: 26866790).

      (2) Page 3, last paragraph: "to reach a higher degree of enrichment...": Has it been demonstrated that direct protein biotinylation provides higher enrichment of relevant proteins? Certainly, there is higher enrichment of proteins, but whether they are relevant is another matter.

      Our point here was that the methods using direct protein biotinylation have higher levels of enrichment and thus require less cells than the previously mentioned PICh method, which is why we wrote the following: “In the case of GLoPro, APEX-based proximity labeling enhanced protein detection sensitivity, reducing the input required for each replicate analysis to ~300 million cells—a 10-fold reduction in cell input compared to PICh which used 3 billion cells.”

      Regarding if these proteins are relevant or not, we show enrichment of known proteins that are critical to the function of their occupied genomic region at telomeres and centromeres. Additionally, we’ve made added quantitative comparisons to assess relevance in our analysis of Hox and our targeted region of the X chromosome through comparisons to ChIP data at these regions. The improved enrichment that we’ve established in our initial submission as well as in the updated version also means that we can further scale down the number of cells required.

      (3) Figure 2B is misleading; it appears as though all three regions are targeted in the same cell, suggesting true multiplexing, which, I believe, is not the case.

      To avoid any potential confusion about how the samples were derived we’ve updated this figure panel to show three separate cells, each with a different region being targeted.

      (3) If I understand correctly, the 'no probe' control should primarily retrieve endogenously biotinylated proteins (carboxylases), which are mainly found in mitochondria. Why does the Pearson clustering in Supplementary Figure 2 not place this control proteome closer to the mitochondrial proteome?

      Under the assumption that the ~10 carboxylases are biotinylated at the same levels in all cells, yet the proportion of these carboxylases compared to all enriched proteins for a given target is markedly reduced. Thus, as a proportion of the enriched proteome we note in Figure S4 that mitochondrial DNA OMAP enriches proteins besides the carboxylases. We believe this explains why the ‘no probe’ sample can be clearly separated along PC2 in Figure 2D.

      (4) Was CENPA enriched in the centromere DNA-O-MAP? If not, have the authors scaled up (e.g., with ten times more cells) to see if the local proteome becomes deeper and detects relevant low-abundance proteins like CENPA or HJURP? This would be very informative.

      We did not observe CENPA, and we had originally contemplated the experiment the reviewer suggested, but noted that CENPA has only two tryptic peptides (>7 AA, <35AA), and they are both in the commonly phosphorylated region of the protein. Rather than scale up these experiments, we decided to attempt DNA OMAP on the non-repetitive locus experiments.

      (5) Using a few million cells, I do not see how the starting chromatin amount could range from 0.5 to 7 mg, as shown in Figures 2 and 3. How were these figures calculated? One diploid cell contains approximately 6 pg of DNA/chromatin, which means one billion cells represent about 6 mg of DNA/chromatin (a typical measurement for these methods).

      Thanks to the reviewer for catching this, that should have been the total lysate amount, not chromatin mass. We have corrected Figures 2 and 3.

      (6) Figure S1: There is no indication of the metrics used for the shades of red.

      We have added a gradient legend to depict this.

      (7) What is the purpose of HCl in the experiment?

      HCl treatment was done to reduce autofluorescence for imaging (PMID: 39548245).

      (8) I could not find the MS dataset on the server using the provided accession number (PDX054080).

      Thank you for pointing this out, we have confirmed the dataset is public now and added the new datasets for the Xi/Xa and Hox studies. We also note that the accession should be “PXD054080”

      (9) Why desthiobiotin instead of biotin?

      We have tested both; desthiobiotin was helpful to reduce adsorption to surfaces. Either biotin or desthiobiotin can be used, though, for OMAP.

    1. eLife Assessment

      Koch et al. describe a valuable novel methodology, SynSAC, to synchronise cells to analyse meiosis I or meiosis II or mitotic metaphase in budding yeast. The authors present convincing data to validate abscisic acid-induced dimerisation to induce a synthetic spindle assembly checkpoint (SAC) arrest that will be of particular importance to analyse meiosis II. The authors use their approach to determine the composition and phosphorylation of kinetochores from meiotic metaphase I and metaphase II that will be of interest to the broader meiosis research community.

      [Editors' note: this paper was reviewed by Review Commons.]

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      [Editors' note: this version has been assessed by the Reviewing Editor without further input from the original reviewers. The authors have comprehensively addressed the comments raised in the previous round of review.]

      Summary:

      These authors have developed a method to induce MI or MII arrest. While this was previously possible in MI, the advantage of the method presented here is it works for MII, and chemically inducible because it is based on a system that is sensitive to the addition of ABA. Depending on when the ABA is added, they achieve a MI or MII delay. The ABA promotes dimerizing fragments of Mps1 and Spc105 that can't bind their chromosomal sites. The evidence that the MI arrest is weaker than the MII arrest is convincing and consistent with published data and indicating the SAC in MI is less robust than MII or mitosis. The authors use this system to find evidence that the weak MI arrest is associated with PP1 binding to Spc105. This is a nice use of the system.

      The remainder of the paper uses the SynSAC system to isolate populations enriched for MI or MII stages and conduct proteomics. This shows a powerful use of the system, but more work is needed to validate these results, particularly in normal cells.

      Overall, the most significant aspect of this paper is the technical achievement, which is validated by the other experiments. They have developed a system and generated some proteomics data that maybe useful to others when analyzing kinetochore composition at each division.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript submitted by Koch et al. describes a novel approach to collect budding yeast cells in metaphase I or metaphase II by synthetically activating the spinde checkpoint (SAC). The arrest is transient and reversible. This synchronization strategy will be extremely useful for studying meiosis I and meiosis II, and compare the two divisions. The authors characterized this so named syncSAC approach and could confirm previous observations that the SAC arrest is less efficient in meiosis I than in meiosis II. They found that downregulation of the SAC response through PP1 phosphatase is stronger in meiosis I than in meiosis II. The authors then went on to purify kinetochore-associated proteins from metaphase I and II extracts for proteome and phosphoproteome analysis. Their data will be of significant interest to the cell cycle community (they compared their datasets also to kinetochores purified from cells arrested in prophase I and -with SynSAC in mitosis).

      Significance:

      The technique described here will be of great interest to the cell cycle community. Furthermore, the authors provide data sets on purified kinetochores of different meiotic stages and compare them to mitosis. This paper will thus be highly cited, for the technique, and also for the application of the technique.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In their manuscript, Koch et al. describe a novel strategy to synchronize cells of the budding yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae in metaphase I and metaphase II, thereby facilitating comparative analyses between these meiotic stages. This approach, termed SynSAC, adapts a method previously developed in fission yeast and human cells that enables the ectopic induction of a synthetic spindle assembly checkpoint (SAC) arrest by conditionally forcing the heterodimerization of two SAC components upon addition of the plant hormone abscisic acid (ABA). This is a valuable tool, which has the advantage that induces SAC-dependent inhibition of the anaphase promoting complex without perturbing kinetochores. Furthermore, since the same strategy and yeast strain can be also used to induce a metaphase arrest during mitosis, the methodology developed by Koch et al. enables comparative analyses between mitotic and meiotic cell divisions. To validate their strategy, the authors purified kinetochores from meiotic metaphase I and metaphase II, as well as from mitotic metaphase, and compared their protein composition and phosphorylation profiles. The results are presented clearly and in an organized manner.

      Significance:

      Koch et al. describe a novel methodology, SynSAC, to synchronize budding yeast cells in metaphase I or metaphase II during meiosis, as well and in mitotic metaphase, thereby enabling differential analyses among these cell division stages. Their approach builds on prior strategies originally developed in fission yeast and human cells models to induce a synthetic spindle assembly checkpoint (SAC) arrest by conditionally forcing the heterodimerization of two SAC proteins upon addition of abscisic acid (ABA). The results from this manuscript are of special relevance for researchers studying meiosis and using Saccharomyces cerevisiae as a model. Moreover, the differential analysis of the composition and phosphorylation of kinetochores from meiotic metaphase I and metaphase II adds interest for the broader meiosis research community. Finally, regarding my expertise, I am a researcher specialized in the regulation of cell division.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      General Statements

      We are delighted that all reviewers found our manuscript to be a technical advance by providing a much sought after method to arrest budding yeast cells in metaphase of mitosis or both meiotic metaphases. The reviewers also valued our use of this system to make new discoveries in two areas. First, we provided evidence that the spindle checkpoint is intrinsically weaker in meiosis I and showed that this is due to PP1 phosphatase. Second, we determined how the composition and phosphorylation of the kinetochore changes during meiosis, providing key insights into kinetochore function and providing a rich dataset for future studies.

      The reviewers also made some extremely helpful suggestions to improve our manuscript, which we will have now implemented:

      (1) Improvements to the discussion. Following the recommendation of the reviewers recommended we have focused our discussion on the novel findings of the manuscript and drawn out some key points of interest that deserve more attention.

      (2) We added a new Figure 5 to help interpret the mass spectrometry data, to address Reviewer #3, point 4.

      (3) We added a new additional control experiment to address the minor point 1 from reviewer #3. Our experiment to confirm that SynSAC relies on endogenous checkpoint proteins was missing the cell cycle profile of cells where SynSAC was not induced for comparison. We have performed this experiment and the new data is show as part of a new Figure 2.

      (4) We included representative images of spindle morphology as requested by Reviewer #1, point 2 in Figure1.

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      These authors have developed a method to induce MI or MII arrest. While this was previously possible in MI, the advantage of the method presented here is it works for MII, and chemically inducible because it is based on a system that is sensitive to the addition of ABA. Depending on when the ABA is added, they achieve a MI or MII delay. The ABA promotes dimerizing fragments of Mps1 and Spc105 that can't bind their chromosomal sites. The evidence that the MI arrest is weaker than the MII arrest is convincing and consistent with published data and indicating the SAC in MI is less robust than MII or mitosis. The authors use this system to find evidence that the weak MI arrest is associated with PP1 binding to Spc105. This is a nice use of the system.

      The remainder of the paper uses the SynSAC system to isolate populations enriched for MI or MII stages and conduct proteomics. This shows a powerful use of the system but more work is needed to validate these results, particularly in normal cells.

      Overall the most significant aspect of this paper is the technical achievement, which is validated by the other experiments. They have developed a system and generated some proteomics data that maybe useful to others when analyzing kinetochore composition at each division. Overall, I have only a few minor suggestions.

      We appreciate the reviewers’ support of our study.

      (1) In wild-type - Pds1 levels are high during M1 and A1, but low in MII. Can the authors comment on this? In line 217, what is meant by "slightly attenuated? Can the authors comment on how anaphase occurs in presence of high Pds1? There is even a low but significant level in MII.

      The higher levels of Pds1 in meiosis I compared to meiosis II has been observed previously using immunofluorescence and live imaging[1–3]. Although the reasons are not completely clear, we speculate that there is insufficient time between the two divisions to re-accumulate Pds1 prior to separase re-activation. We added the following sentence at Line 218: “ In wild-type cells, Pds1 levels are higher in meiosis I than in meiosis II, likely because the interval between the divisions is too short to allow Pds1 reaccumulation [1,2,4]. This pattern was also observed in SynSAC strains in the absence of ABA (Figure 3A).

      We agree “slightly attenuated” was confusing and we have re-worded this sentence to read “However, ABA addition at the time of prophase release resulted in Pds1<sup>securin</sup> stabilisation throughout the time course, consistent with delays in both metaphase I and II”. (Line 225).

      We do not believe that either anaphase I or II occur in the presence of high Pds1. Western blotting represents the amount of Pds1 in the population of cells at a given time point. The time between meiosis I and II is very short even when treated with ABA. For example, in Figure 2B (now Figure 3B), spindle morphology counts show that at 105 minutes, 40% of cells had anaphase I spindles (and will be Pds1 negative), while ~20% had metaphase I and ~20% metaphase II spindles (and will be Pds1 positive). In contrast, due to the better efficiency of the meiosis II arrest, anaphase II hardly occurs at all in these conditions, since anaphase II spindles (and the second nuclear division) are observed at very low frequency (maximum 10%) from 165 minutes onwards. Instead, metaphase II spindles partially or fully breakdown, without undergoing anaphase extension. Taking Pds1 levels from the western blot and the spindle data together leads to the conclusion that at the end of the time-course, these cells are biochemically in metaphase II, but unable to maintain a robust spindle. Spindle collapse is also observed in other situations where meiotic exit fails, and potentially reflects an uncoupling of the cell cycle from the programme governing gamete differentiation[3,5,6]. We re-wrote this section as follows. (Line 222).

      “Note that Pds1 levels do not fully decline in this population-based analysis as the short duration of meiotic stages results in a mixed-stage population. For example, at the anaphase I peak (90 minutes) around 30% of cells remain in prior stages in which Pds1 levels are expected to be high. However, ABA addition at the time of prophase release resulted in Pds1<sup>securin</sup> stabilisation throughout the time course, consistent with delays in both metaphase I and metaphase II. (Figure 3B). Anaphase I spindles nevertheless appeared with delayed kinetics, peaking at ~40% at 105 min. Concurrently, ~40% of cells remained in metaphase I or II and were therefore Pds1-positive, accounting for the persistent Pds1 signal on the western blot. In contrast, anaphase II spindles are observed at low frequency (maximum 10%) from 165 minutes onwards because metaphase II spindles give way to post-meiotic spindles, without undergoing anaphase II extension (Figure 1D).”

      (2) The figures with data characterizing the system are mostly graphs showing time course of MI and MII. There is no cytology, which is a little surprising since the stage is determined by spindle morphology. It would help to see sample sizes (ie. In the Figure legends) and also representative images. It would also be nice to see images comparing the same stage in the SynSAC cells versus normal cells. Are there any differences in the morphology of the spindles or chromosomes when in the SynSAC system?

      We have now included representative images as Figure 1D along with a schematic Figure 1C. This shows that there are no differences in spindle morphology or nuclei (chromosomes cannot be observed at this resolution), except of course the number of cells with a particular spindle morphology at a given time. We added the following text confirming that there is no change in spindle morphology (Line 174). “We scored spindle morphology after anti-tubulin immunofluorescence to determine cell cycle stage (Figure 1C). Prophase, metaphase I, anaphase I, metaphase II, anaphase II and post-meiotic spindles appeared successively over the timecourse in both the absence and presence of ABA (Figure 1D). While SynSAC dimerisation did not alter characteristic spindle morphologies, it changed their distribution over time.”

      The number of cells scored (at least 100 cells per timepoint) is given in the figure legends.

      (3) A possible criticism of this system could be that the SAC signal promoting arrest is not coming from the kinetochore. Are there any possible consequences of this? In vertebrate cells, the RZZ complex streams off the kinetochore. Yeast don't have RZZ but this is an example of something that is SAC dependent and happens at the kinetochore. Can the authors discuss possible limitations such as this? Does the inhibition of the APC effect the native kinetochores? This could be good or bad. A bad possibility is that the cell is behaving as if it is in MII, but the kinetochores have made their microtubule attachments and behave as if in anaphase.

      In our view, the fact that SynSAC does not come from kinetochores is a major advantage as this allows the study of the kinetochore in an unperturbed state. It is also important to note that the canonical checkpoint components are all still present in the SynSAC strains, and perturbations in kinetochore-microtubule interactions would be expected to mount a kinetochore-driven checkpoint response as normal. Indeed, it would be interesting in future work to understand how disrupting kinetochore-microtubule attachments alters kinetochore composition (presumably checkpoint proteins will be recruited) and phosphorylation but this is beyond the scope of this work. In terms of the state at which we are arresting cells – this is a true metaphase because cohesion has not been lost but kinetochore-microtubule attachments have been established. This is evident from the enrichment of microtubule regulators but not checkpoint proteins in the kinetochore purifications from metaphase I and II. While this state is expected to occur only transiently in yeast, since the establishment of proper kinetochore-microtubule attachments triggers anaphase onset, the ability to capture this properly bioriented state will be extremely informative for future studies. We acknowledge however that we cannot completely rule out unwanted effects of the system, as in any synchronisation system, and where possible findings with the system should be backed up with an orthogonal approach. We appreciate the reviewers’ insight in highlighting these interesting discussion points and we have re-written the relevant paragraph in the discussion, starting line 545.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance):

      These authors have developed a method to induce MI or MII arrest. While this was previously possible in MI, the advantage of the method presented here is it works for MII, and chemically inducible because it is based on a system that is sensitive to the addition of ABA. Depending on when the ABA is added, they achieve a MI or MII delay. The ABA promotes dimerizing fragments of Mps1 and Spc105 that can't bind their chromosomal sites. The evidence that the MI arrest is weaker than the MII arrest is convincing and consistent with published data and indicating the SAC in MI is less robust than MII or mitosis. The authors use this system to find evidence that the weak MI arrest is associated with PP1 binding to Spc105. This is a nice use of the system.

      The remainder of the paper uses the SynSAC system to isolate populations enriched for MI or MII stages and conduct proteomics. This shows a powerful use of the system but more work is needed to validate these results, particularly in normal cells.

      Overall the most significant aspect of this paper is the technical achievement, which is validated by the other experiments. They have developed a system and generated some proteomics data that maybe useful to others when analyzing kinetochore composition at each division.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s enthusiasm for our work.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      The manuscript submitted by Koch et al. describes a novel approach to collect budding yeast cells in metaphase I or metaphase II by synthetically activating the spinde checkpoint (SAC). The arrest is transient and reversible. This synchronization strategy will be extremely useful for studying meiosis I and meiosis II, and compare the two divisions. The authors characterized this so-named syncSACapproach and could confirm previous observations that the SAC arrest is less efficient in meiosis I than in meiosis II. They found that downregulation of the SAC response through PP1 phosphatase is stronger in meiosis I than in meiosis II. The authors then went on to purify kinetochore-associated proteins from metaphase I and II extracts for proteome and phosphoproteome analysis. Their data will be of significant interest to the cell cycle community (they compared their datasets also to kinetochores purified from cells arrested in prophase I and -with SynSAC in mitosis).

      I have only a couple of minor comments:

      (1) I would add the Suppl Figure 1A to main Figure 1A. What is really exciting here is the arrest in metaphase II, so I don't understand why the authors characterize metaphase I in the main figure, but not metaphase II. But this is only a suggestion.

      Thanks for the suggestion. We agree and have moved the data for both meiosis I and meiosis II to make a new main Figure 2.

      (2) Line 197, the authors state: ...SyncSACinduced a more pronounced delay in metaphase II than in metaphase I. However, line 229 and 240 the auhtors talk about a "longer delay in metaphase <i compared to metaphase II"... this seems to be a mix-up.

      Thank you for pointing this out, this is indeed a typo and we have corrected it.

      (3) The authors describe striking differences for both protein abundance and phosphorylation for key kinetochore associated proteins. I found one very interesting protein that seems to be very abundant and phosphorylated in metaphase I but not metaphase II, namely Sgo1. Do the authors think that Sgo1 is not required in metaphase II anymore? (Top hit in suppl Fig 8D).

      This is indeed an interesting observation, which we plan to investigate as part of another study in the future. Indeed, data from mouse indicates that shugoshin-dependent cohesin deprotection is already absent in meiosis II in mouse oocytes7, though whether this is also true in yeast is not known. Furthermore, this does not rule out other functions of Sgo1 in meiosis II (for example promoting biorientation). We have included a paragraph in the discussion in the section starting line 641.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance):

      The technique described here will be of great interest to the cell cycle community. Furthermore, the authors provide data sets on purified kinetochores of different meiotic stages and compare them to mitosis. This paper will thus be highly cited, for the technique, and also for the application of the technique.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

      In their manuscript, Koch et al. describe a novel strategy to synchronize cells of the budding yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae in metaphase I and metaphase II, thereby facilitating comparative analyses between these meiotic stages. This approach, termed SynSAC, adapts a method previously developed in fission yeast and human cells that enables the ectopic induction of a synthetic spindle assembly checkpoint (SAC) arrest by conditionally forcing the heterodimerization of two SAC components upon addition of the plant hormone abscisic acid (ABA). This is a valuable tool, which has the advantage that induces SAC-dependent inhibition of the anaphase promoting complex without perturbing kinetochores. Furthermore, since the same strategy and yeast strain can be also used to induce a metaphase arrest during mitosis, the methodology developed by Koch et al. enables comparative analyses between mitotic and meiotic cell divisions. To validate their strategy, the authors purified kinetochores from meiotic metaphase I and metaphase II, as well as from mitotic metaphase, and compared their protein composition and phosphorylation profiles. The results are presented clearly and in an organized manner.

      We are grateful to the reviewer for their support.

      Despite the relevance of both the methodology and the comparative analyses, several main issues should be addressed:

      (1) In contrast to the strong metaphase arrest induced by ABA addition in mitosis (Supp. Fig. 2), the SynSAC strategy only promotes a delay in metaphase I and metaphase II as cells progress through meiosis. This delay extends the duration of both meiotic stages, but does not markedly increase the percentage of metaphase I or II cells in the population at a given timepoint of the meiotic time course (Fig. 1C). Therefore, although SynSAC broadens the time window for sample collection, it does not substantially improve differential analyses between stages compared with a standard NDT80 prophase block synchronization experiment. Could a higher ABA concentration or repeated hormone addition improve the tightness of the meiotic metaphase arrest?

      For many purposes the enrichment and extended time for sample collection is sufficient, as we demonstrate here. However, as pointed out by the reviewer below, the system can be improved by use of the 4A-RASA mutations to provide a stronger arrest (see our response below). We did not experiment with higher ABA concentrations or repeated addition since the very robust arrest achieved with the 4A-RASA mutant deemed this unnecessary.

      (2) Unlike the standard SynSAC strategy, introducing mutations that prevent PP1 binding to the SynSAC construct considerably extended the duration of the meiotic metaphase arrests. In particular, mutating PP1 binding sites in both the RVxF (RASA) and the SILK (4A) motifs of the Spc105(1-455)-PYL construct caused a strong metaphase I arrest that persisted until the end of the meiotic time course (Fig. 3A). This stronger and more prolonged 4A-RASA SynSAC arrest would directly address the issue raised above. It is unclear why the authors did not emphasize more this improved system. Indeed, the 4A-RASA SynSAC approach could be presented as the optimal strategy to induce a conditional metaphase arrest in budding yeast meiosis, since it not only adapts but also improves the original methods designed for fission yeast and human cells. Along the same lines, it is surprising that the authors did not exploit the stronger arrest achieved with the 4A-RASA mutant to compare kinetochore composition at meiotic metaphase I and II.

      We agree that the 4A-RASA mutant is the best tool to use for the arrest and going forward this will be our approach. We collected the proteomics data and the data on the SynSAC mutant variants concurrently, so we did not know about the improved arrest at the time the proteomics experiment was done. Because very good arrest was already achieved with the unmutated SynSAC construct, we could not justify repeating the proteomics experiment which is a large amount of work using significant resources. We highlighted the potential of using the 4A-RASA variant more strongly as follows:

      Line 312, Results:

      “These findings also indicate that spc105<sup>(1-455)</sup>-4A-RASA is the preferred SynSAC variant, particularly where metaphase I arrest is the goal.”

      Line 598, Discussion: “Finally, the stronger and more prolonged SynSAC arrest obtained using the PP1 binding site mutant spc105<sup>(1-455)</sup>-4A-RASA prompts its consideration as an alternative tool for future studies, particularly where meiosis I arrest is important. At the time of performing the kinetochore immunoprecipitations, these mutations were not yet available but, as we have demonstrated, wild type SynSAC protein fragments nevertheless yielded sufficiently enriched populations of metaphase I and II cells to allow reliable detection of stage-specific kinetochore proteins and phosphorylations. Going forward, however, we consider SynSAC-4A-RASA to be the optimal tool for inducing metaphase arrests.”

      (3) The results shown in Supp. Fig. 4C are intriguing and merit further discussion. Mitotic growth in ABA suggest that the RASA mutation silences the SynSAC effect, yet this was not observed for the 4A or the double 4A-RASA mutants. Notably, in contrast to mitosis, the SynSAC 4A-RASA mutation leads to a more pronounced metaphase I meiotic delay (Fig. 3A). It is also noteworthy that the RVAF mutation partially restores mitotic growth in ABA. This observation supports, as previously demonstrated in human cells, that Aurora B-mediated phosphorylation of S77 within the RVSF motif is important to prevent PP1 binding to Spc105 in budding yeast as well.

      We agree these are intriguing findings that highlight key differences as to the wiring of the spindle checkpoint in meiosis and mitosis and potential for future studies, however, currently we can only speculate as to the underlying cause. The effect of the RASA mutation in mitosis is unexpected and unexplained. However, the fact that the 4A-RASA mutation causes a stronger delay in meiosis I compared to mitosis can be explained by a greater prominence of PP1 phosphatase in meiosis. Indeed, our data (now Figure 7A) show that the PP1 phosphatase Glc7 and its regulatory subunit Fin1 are highly enriched on kinetochores at all meiotic stages compared to mitosis.

      We agree that the improved growth of the RVAF mutant is intriguing, along with the reduced metaphase I delay, which together point to a role of Aurora B-mediated phosphorylation also in S. cerevisiae, though previous work has not supported such a role [8].

      We have re-written and expanded the paragraph in the discussion related to the mutation of the RVSF motif starting line 564 to reflect these points.

      (4) To demonstrate the applicability of the SynSAC approach, the authors immunoprecipitated the kinetochore protein Dsn1 from cells arrested at different meiotic or mitotic stages, and compared kinetochore composition using data independent acquisition (DIA) mass spectrometry. Quantification and comparative analyses of total and kinetochore protein levels were conducted in parallel for cells expressing either FLAG-tagged or untagged Dsn1 (Supp. Fig. 7A-B). To better detect potential changes, protein abundances were next scaled to Dsn1 levels in each sample (Supp. Fig. 7C-D). However, it is not clear why the authors did not normalize protein abundance in the immunoprecipitations from tagged samples at each stage to the corresponding untagged control, instead of performing a separate analysis. This would be particularly relevant given the high sensitivity of DIA mass spectrometry, which enabled quantification of thousands of proteins. Furthermore, the authors compared protein abundances in tagged-samples from mitotic metaphase and meiotic prophase, metaphase I and metaphase II (Supp. Fig. 7E-F). If protein amounts in each case were not normalized to the untagged controls, as inferred from the text (lines 333 to 338), the observed differences could simply reflect global changes in protein expression at different stages rather than specific differences in protein association to kinetochores.

      While we agree with the reviewer that at first glance, normalising to no tag appears to be the most appropriate normalisation, in practice there is very low background signal in the no tag sample which means that any random fluctuations have a big impact on the final fold change used for normalisation. This approach therefore introduces artefacts into the data rather than improving normalisation.

      To provide reassurance that our kinetochore immunoprecipitations are specific, and that the background (no tag) signal is indeed very low, we have provided a new figure showing the volcanos comparing kinetochore purifications at each stage with their corresponding no tag control (Figure 5).

      It is also important to note that our experiment looks at relative changes of the same protein over time, which we expect to be relatively small in the whole cell lysate. We previously documented proteins that change in abundance in whole cell lysates throughout meiosis9. In this study, we found that relatively few proteins significantly change in abundance. We added a sentence to this effect in the discussion (Line 632). “Although some variation could reflect global changes in protein abundance during meiosis, we previously found that only a few proteins undergo dynamic abundance changes during the meiotic divisions [9], so this is unlikely to fully explain the kinetochore composition differences observed.”

      Our aim in the current study was to understand how the relative composition of the kinetochore changes and for this, we believe that a direct comparison to Dsn1, a central kinetochore protein which we immunoprecipitated is the most appropriate normalisation.

      (5) Despite the large amount of potentially valuable data generated, the manuscript focuses mainly on results that reinforce previously established observations (e.g., premature SAC silencing in meiosis I by PP1, changes in kinetochore composition, etc.). The discussion would benefit from a deeper analysis of novel findings that underscore the broader significance of this study.

      We strongly agree with this point and we have re-framed the discussion to focus on the novel findings, as also raised by the other reviewers and noted above.

      Finally, minor concerns are:

      (1) Meiotic progression in SynSAC strains lacking Mad1, Mad2 or Mad3 is severely affected (Fig. 1D and Supp. Fig. 1), making it difficult to assess whether, as the authors state, the metaphase delays depend on the canonical SAC cascade. In addition, as a general note, graphs displaying meiotic time courses could be improved for clarity (e.g., thinner data lines, addition of axis gridlines and external tick marks, etc.).

      We added the requested data, which is now part of Figure 2. This now clearly shows that mad2 and mad3 mutants have very similar meiotic cell cycle profiles in the SynSAC background whether or not ABA is added. Please note that we removed the mad1 mutant from this analysis as technical difficulties prevented the strain from entering meiosis well.

      We have improved graphs throughout, as suggested: data lines are thinner, axis gridlines and external grid marks are included. We added an arrow to indicate the time of ethanol/ABA addition.

      (2) Spore viability following SynSAC induction in meiosis was used as an indicator that this experimental approach does not disrupt kinetochore function and chromosome segregation. However, this is an indirect measure. Direct monitoring of genome distribution using GFP-tagged chromosomes would have provided more robust evidence. Notably, the SynSAC mad3Δ mutant shows a slight viability defect, which might reflect chromosome segregation defects that are more pronounced in the absence of a functional SAC.

      Spore viability is a much more sensitive way of analysing segregation defects that GFP-labelled chromosomes. This is because GFP labelling allows only a single chromosome to be followed. On the other hand, if any of the 16 chromosomes mis-segregate in a given meiosis this would result in one or more aneuploid spores in the tetrad, which are typically inviable. The fact that spore viability is not significantly different from wild type in this analysis indicates that there are no major chromosome segregation defects in these strains, and we therefore we think this experiment unnecessary.

      (3) It is surprising that, although SAC activity is proposed to be weaker in metaphase I, the levels of CPC/SAC proteins seem to be higher at this stage of meiosis than in metaphase II or mitotic metaphase (Fig. 4A-B).

      We speculate that the challenge in biorienting homologs which are held together by chiasmata, rather than back-to-back kinetochores results in a greater requirement for dynamic error correction in meiosis I. Interestingly, the data with the RASA mutant also point to increased PP1 activity in meiosis I, and we additionally observed increased levels of PP1 (Glc7 and Fin1) on meiotic kinetochores, consistent with the idea that cycles of error correction and silencing are elevated in meiosis I. We have re-written and expanded the discussion section starting line 565 to reflect these points.

      (4) Although a more detailed exploration of kinetochore composition or phosphorylation changes is beyond the scope of the manuscript, some key observations could have been validated experimentally (e.g., enrichment of proteins at kinetochores, phosphorylation events that were identified as specific or enriched at a certain meiotic stage, etc.).

      We agree that this is beyond the scope of the current study but will form the start of future projects from our group, and hopefully others.

      (5) Several typographical errors should be corrected (e.g., "Kinvetochores" in Fig. 4 legend, "250uM ABA" in Supp. Fig. 1 legend, etc.)

      Thank you for pointing these out, they have been corrected and we have carefully proofread the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance):

      Koch et al. describe a novel methodology, SynSAC, to synchronize budding yeast cells in metaphase I or metaphase II during meiosis, as well and in mitotic metaphase, thereby enabling differential analyses among these cell division stages. Their approach builds on prior strategies originally developed in fission yeast and human cells models to induce a synthetic spindle assembly checkpoint (SAC) arrest by conditionally forcing the heterodimerization of two SAC proteins upon addition of abscisic acid (ABA). The results from this manuscript are of special relevance for researchers studying meiosis and using Saccharomyces cerevisiae as a model. Moreover, the differential analysis of the composition and phosphorylation of kinetochores from meiotic metaphase I and metaphase II adds interest for the broader meiosis research community. Finally, regarding my expertise, I am a researcher specialized in the regulation of cell division.

      References

      (1) Salah, S.M., and Nasmyth, K. (2000). Destruction of the securin Pds1p occurs at the onset of anaphase during both meiotic divisions in yeast. Chromosoma 109, 27–34.

      (2) Matos, J., Lipp, J.J., Bogdanova, A., Guillot, S., Okaz, E., Junqueira, M., Shevchenko, A., and Zachariae, W. (2008). Dbf4-dependent CDC7 kinase links DNA replication to the segregation of homologous chromosomes in meiosis I. Cell 135, 662–678.

      (3) Marston, A.L.A.L., Lee, B.H.B.H., and Amon, A. (2003). The Cdc14 phosphatase and the FEAR network control meiotic spindle disassembly and chromosome segregation. Developmental cell 4, 711–726. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1534-5807(03)00130-8.

      (4) Marston, A.L., Lee, B.H., and Amon, A. (2003). The Cdc14 phosphatase and the FEAR network control meiotic spindle disassembly and chromosome segregation. Dev Cell 4, 711–726. https://doi.org/10.1016/s1534-5807(03)00130-8.

      (5) Attner, M.A., and Amon, A. (2012). Control of the mitotic exit network during meiosis. Molecular Biology of the Cell 23, 3122–3132. https://doi.org/10.1091/mbc.E12-03-0235.

      (6) Pablo-Hernando, M.E., Arnaiz-Pita, Y., Nakanishi, H., Dawson, D., del Rey, F., Neiman, A.M., and de Aldana, C.R.V. (2007). Cdc15 Is Required for Spore Morphogenesis Independently of Cdc14 in Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Genetics 177, 281–293. https://doi.org/10.1534/genetics.107.076133.

      (7) El Jailani, S., Cladière, D., Nikalayevich, E., Touati, S.A., Chesnokova, V., Melmed, S., Buffin, E., and Wassmann, K. (2025). Eliminating separase inhibition reveals absence of robust cohesin protection in oocyte metaphase II. EMBO J 44, 5187–5214. https://doi.org/10.1038/s44318-025-00522-0.

      (8) Rosenberg, J.S., Cross, F.R., and Funabiki, H. (2011). KNL1/Spc105 Recruits PP1 to Silence the Spindle Assembly Checkpoint. Current Biology 21, 942–947. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2011.04.011.

      (9) Koch, L.B., Spanos, C., Kelly, V., Ly, T., and Marston, A.L. (2024). Rewiring of the phosphoproteome executes two meiotic divisions in budding yeast. EMBO J 43, 1351–1383. https://doi.org/10.1038/s44318-024-00059-8.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study identifies the uncharacterised protein FAM53C as a novel, potential regulator of the G1/S cell cycle transition, linking its function to the DYRK1A kinase and the RB/p53 pathways. The work is valuable and of interest to the cell cycle field, leveraging a strong computational screen to identify a new candidate. The findings are solid, although confidence in the siRNA depletion phenotypes would have been higher with rescue experiments using an siRNA-resistant cDNA.

      [Editors' note: this paper was reviewed by Review Commons.]

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      [Editors' note: This version has been assessed by the Reviewing Editor without further input from the original reviewers. The authors have addressed comments raised in the previous round of review, shown below, through minor changes to the text without additional experiments.]

      Summary:

      Taylar Hammond and colleagues identified new regulators of the G1/S transition of the cell cycle. They did so by screening publicly available data from the Cancer Dependency Map and identified FAM53C as a positive regulator of the G1/S transition. Using biochemical assays they then show that FAM53 interacts with the DYRK1A kinase to inhibit its function. They show in RPE1 cells that loss of FAMC53 leads to a DYRK1A + P53-dependent cell cycle arrest. Combined inactivation of FAM53C and DYRK1A in a TP53-null background caused S-phase entry with subsequent apoptosis. Finally the authors assess the effect of FAM53C deletion in a cortical organoid model, and in Fam53c knockout mice. Whereas proliferation of the organoids is indeed inhibited, mice show virtually no phenotype.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors sought to identify new regulators of the G1/S transition by mining the Cancer Dependency Map (DepMap) co-dependency dataset. This analysis successfully identified FAM53C, a poorly characterized protein, as a candidate. The strength of the paper lies in this initial discovery and the subsequent biochemical work convincingly showing that FAM53C can directly interact with the kinase DYRK1A, a known cell cycle regulator.

      The authors then present evidence, primarily from acute siRNA knockdown in RPE-1 cells, that loss of FAM53C induces a strong G1 cell cycle arrest. Their follow-up investigation proposes a model where FAM53C normally inhibits DYRK1A, thereby protecting Cyclin D from degradation and preventing p53 activation, to allow for G1/S progression. The authors have commendably addressed some concerns from the initial review: they have now demonstrated the G1 arrest using two independent siRNAs (an improvement over the initial pool), shown the effect in several additional cancer cell lines (U2OS, A549, HCT-116), and developed a more nuanced model that incorporates p53 activation, which helps to explain some of the complex data.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In this study Hammond et al. investigated the role of Dual-specificity Tyrosine Phosphorylation regulated Kinase 1A (DYRK1) in G1/S transition. By exploiting Dependency Map portal, they identified a previously unexplored protein FAM53C as potential regulator of G1/S transition. Using RNAi, they confirmed that depletion of FAM53C suppressed proliferation of human RPE1 cells and that this phenotype was dependent on the presence protein RB. In addition, they noted increased level of CDKN1A transcript and p21 protein that could explain G1 arrest of FAM53C-depleted cells but surprisingly, they did not observe activation of other p53 target genes. Proteomic analysis identified DYRK1 as one of the main interactors of FAM53C and the interaction was confirmed in vitro. Further, they showed that purified FAM53C blocked the ability of DYRK1 to phosphorylate cyclin D in vitro although the activity of DYRK1 was likely not inhibited (judging from the modification of FAM53C itself). Instead, it seems more likely that FAM53C competes with cyclin D in this assay. Authors claim that the G1 arrest caused by depletion of FAM53C was rescued by inhibition of DYRK1 but this was true only in cells lacking functional p53. This is quite confusing as DYRK1 inhibition reduced the fraction of G1 cells in p53 wild type cells as well as in p53 knock-outs, suggesting that FAM53C may not be required for regulation of DYRK1 function. Instead of focusing on the impact of FAM53C on cell cycle progression, authors moved towards investigating its potential (and perhaps more complex) roles in differentiation of IPSCs into cortical organoids and in mice. They observed a lower level of proliferating cells in the organoids but if that reflects an increased activity of DYRK1 or if it is just an off-target effect of the genetic manipulation remains unclear. Even less clear is the phenotype in FAM53C knock-out mice. Authors did not observe any significant changes in survival nor in organ development but they noted some behavioral differences. Whether and how these are connected to the rate of cellular proliferation was not explored. In the summary, the study identified previously unknown role of FAM53C in proliferation but failed to explain the mechanism and its physiological relevance at the level of tissues and organism.

      Comments on the previous version:

      In the revised version of the manuscript, authors addressed most of the critical points. They now include new data with depletion of FAM53C using single siRNAs that show small but significant enrichment of population of the G1 cells. This G1 arrest is likely caused by a combined effects on induction of p21 expression and decreased levels of cyclin D1. Authors observed that inhibition of DYRK1 rescued cyclin D1 levels in FAM53 depleted cells suggesting that FAM53C may inhibit DYRK1. This possibility is also supported by in vitro experiments. On the other hand, inhibition of DYRK1 did not rescue the G1 arrest upon depletion of FAM53C, suggesting that FAM53C may have also DYRK1-independent role in G1. Functional rescue experiments with cyclin D1 mutants and detection of DYRK1 activity in cells would be necessary to conclusively explain the function of FAM53C in progression through G1 phase but unfortunately these experiments were technically not possible. Knock out of FAM53C in iPSCs and in mice suggest that FAM53C may have additional functions besides the cell cycle control and/or that adaptation may have occurred in these model systems. Overall, the study implicated FAM53C in fine tuning DYRK1 activity in cells that may to some extent influence the progression through G1 phase. In addition, FAM53C may also have DYRK1 and cell cycle independent functions that remain to be addressed by future studies.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Taylar Hammond and colleagues identified new regulators of the G1/S transition of the cell cycle. They did so by screening publicly available data from the Cancer Dependency Map and identified FAM53C as a positive regulator of the G1/S transition. Using biochemical assays they then show that FAM53 interacts with the DYRK1A kinase to inhibit its function. They show in RPE1 cells that loss of FAMC53 leads to a DYRK1A + P53-dependent cell cycle arrest. Combined inactivation of FAM53C and DYRK1A in a TP53-null background caused S-phase entry with subsequent apoptosis. Finally the authors assess the effect of FAM53C deletion in a cortical organoid model, and in Fam53c knockout mice. Whereas proliferation of the organoids is indeed inhibited, mice show virtually no phenotype.

      The authors have revised the manuscript, and I respond here point-by-point to indicate which parts of the revision I found compelling, and which parts were less convincing. So the numbering is consistent with the numbering in my first review report.

      (1) The p21 knockdowns are a valuable addition, and the claim that other p53 targets than p21 are involved in the FAMC53 RNAi-mediated arrest is now much more solid. Minor detail: if S4D is a quantification of S4C, it is hard to believe that the quantification was done properly (at least the DYRK1Ai conditions). Perhaps S4C is not the best representative example, or some error was made?

      We appreciate the concern from the Reviewer. As explained in the first round of revisions, we have mostly used an immunoassay based on capillary transfer (WES system), which is very quantitative (much more than classical immunoblot). As for the other WES assays, the panel in S4C is a representation from the signal in the capillary from one of the experiments we performed (in many ways, we should simply not show these representations but readers and reviewers expect them). We agree that this was not visually the most representative, likely because of the saturation of the signal, and we replaced it with another one.

      (2a) I appreciate the decision to remove the cyclin D1 phosphorylation data. A more nuanced model now emerges. It is not clear to me however why the Protein Simple immunoassay was used for experiments with RPE cells, and not the cortical organoids. Even though no direct claims are made based on the phospho-cyclin D data in Figure 5E+G, showing these data suggests that FAM53C deletion increases DYRK1A-mediated cyclin D1 phosphorylation. I find it tricky to show these data, while knowing now that this effect could not be shown in the RPE1 cells.

      The Reviewer raises a valid point. The data we had presented in the first version of the manuscript were strongly suggestive of changes in Cyclin D1 phosphorylation and protein stability but we followed the Reviewer’s advice to remove them from the revised manuscript because the effects were sometimes small. We decided to keep these data in the organoid model because we felt this is a question that many readers would have (how do changes in FAM53C affect Cyclin D levels?). As the Reviewer mentions, we did not draw conclusions about this but we felt and still feel it is important to connect the dots, even if imperfectly, between FAM53C and the cell cycle, and these data in Figure complement the data in Figure 3F. The experiments with RPE-1 cells were mostly performed in the Sage lab with the WES assay while the experiments with organoids were largely performed in the Pasca lab where more ‘classic’ immunoblots are routinely used. More generally, some antibodies work better with one method vs. the other and we often go back and forth between the two.

      (2b) The quantifications of the immunoassays are not convincing. In multiple experiments, the HSP90 levels vary wildly, which indicates big differences in protein loading if HSP90 is a proper loading control. This is for example problematic for the interpretation of figure 3F and S3I. The cyclin D1 "bands" look extremely similar between siCtrl and siFAM53C (Fig S3I), in fact the two series of 6 samples with different dosages of DYRK1Ai look seem an identical repetition of each other. I did not have to option to overlay them, but it would be important to check if a mistake was made here. The cyclin D1 signals aside, the change in cycD1/HSP90 ratios seems to be entirely caused by differences in HSP90 levels. Careful re-analysis of the raw data and more equal loading seem necessary. The same goes (to a lesser extent) for S3J+K.

      As mentioned above, the representation of the fluorescence signal may be important for readers who are used to seeing immunoblot (Western blots), but the quantification is performed on the values directly obtained from the WES system from ProteinSimple. In these experiments, we make sure that the numbers we obtain are in a validated range, allowing us to use the values, even if sometimes the loading is a bit different between lanes. The sensitivity of the WES assay allows for high accuracy in intra-well quantification allowing for accurate inter-well quantification once loading control normalization is completed.

      (2c) the new model in Fig S4L: what do the arrows at the right FAM53C and p53 that merge a point straight towards S-phase mean? They suggest that p53 (and FAM53C) directly promote S-phase progression, but most likely this is not what the authors intended with it.

      Very good point. We were trying to be inclusive of various signaling pathways that may be implicated in the regulation of the cell cycle by this group of proteins. FAM53C does promote S-phase entry (more cycling when FAM53C is overexpressed) but we removed the arrow coming from p53, which is certainly not a positive regulator of cell cycle progression. Thank you for helping us correct this mistake.

      (3) Clear; nicely addressed.

      (4) Thank you for correcting.

      (5) I appreciate that the authors are now more careful to call the IMPC analysis data preliminary. This is acceptable to me, but nevertheless, I suggest the authors to seriously consider taking this part entirely out. The risk of chance finding and the extremely skewed group sizes (as reviewer #2 had pointed out) hamper the credibility of this statistical analysis.

      We appreciate this concern but feel that it is important for the community to be aware of these phenotypes so other investigators either study FAM53C in different genetic contexts or, for example, generate a conditional knockout allele to study more acute effects of FAM53C loss during development and in adult mice. We believe that the text is carefully written and acknowledge the caveats of small sample sizes in some statistical analyses.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors sought to identify new regulators of the G1/S transition by mining the Cancer Dependency Map (DepMap) co-dependency dataset. This analysis successfully identified FAM53C, a poorly characterized protein, as a candidate. The strength of the paper lies in this initial discovery and the subsequent biochemical work convincingly showing that FAM53C can directly interact with the kinase DYRK1A, a known cell cycle regulator.

      The authors then present evidence, primarily from acute siRNA knockdown in RPE-1 cells, that loss of FAM53C induces a strong G1 cell cycle arrest. Their follow-up investigation proposes a model where FAM53C normally inhibits DYRK1A, thereby protecting Cyclin D from degradation and preventing p53 activation, to allow for G1/S progression. The authors have commendably addressed some concerns from the initial review: they have now demonstrated the G1 arrest using two independent siRNAs (an improvement over the initial pool), shown the effect in several additional cancer cell lines (U2OS, A549, HCT-116), and developed a more nuanced model that incorporates p53 activation, which helps to explain some of the complex data.

      However, a central and critical weakness persists. The entire functional model is built upon the very strong G1 arrest phenotype observed in vitro following acute knockdown. This finding is in stark contrast to data from other contexts. As the authors note, the knockout of Fam53c in mice results in minimal phenotypes, and the DepMap data itself suggests the gene is largely non-essential in most cancer cell lines.

      This major discrepancy creates two competing interpretations:

      As the authors suggest, FAM53C has a critical role in the cell cycle, but its loss is rapidly masked by compensatory mechanisms in long-term knockout models (like iPSCs and mice) or in established cancer cell lines.

      The strong acute G1 arrest is an experimental artifact of the siRNA-mediated knockdown, and not a true reflection of FAM53C's primary function.

      The authors' new controls (using two individual siRNAs and showing the arrest is RB-dependent) make an off-target effect less likely, but they do not definitively rule it out. The gold-standard experiment to distinguish between these two possibilities-a rescue of the phenotype using an siRNA-resistant cDNA-has not been performed.

      Because this key control is missing, the foundation of the paper's functional claims is not as solid as it needs to be. While the study provides an interesting and valuable new candidate for the cell cycle field to investigate, readers should be cautious in accepting the strength of FAM53C's role in the G1/S transition until this central discrepancy is definitively resolved.

      We appreciate this concern from the Reviewer. Genetically, FAM53C is linked to a number of genes coding for known regulators of the G1/S transition and its loss of function would be predicted to lead to G1 arrest based on these genetic interactions. As the Reviewer nicely summarizes, we have data in several cell types, including non-cancerous immortalized cells (RPE-1) and several cancer cell lines, that FAM53C acute knock-down leads to a G1 arrest. Our data also indicate that this arrest is RB dependent and p53 independent. Furthermore, genetic knockout of FAM53C in iPSC-derived human cortical organoids results in decreased proliferation. All these elements point to a role for FAM53C in G1/S. We performed some pilot rescue experiments, as suggested by the Reviewer, but these preliminary assays could not identify the right “dose” of FAM53C. We agree that it will be important in future studies to develop better genetic systems in which FAM53C can be manipulated genetically. However, our overexpression experiments show increased proliferation, providing more support for a role of FAM53C at the G1/S transition of the cell cycle.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study Hammond et al. investigated the role of Dual-specificity Tyrosine Phosphorylation regulated Kinase 1A (DYRK1) in G1/S transition. By exploiting Dependency Map portal, they identified a previously unexplored protein FAM53C as potential regulator of G1/S transition. Using RNAi, they confirmed that depletion of FAM53C suppressed proliferation of human RPE1 cells and that this phenotype was dependent on the presence protein RB. In addition, they noted increased level of CDKN1A transcript and p21 protein that could explain G1 arrest of FAM53C-depleted cells but surprisingly, they did not observe activation of other p53 target genes. Proteomic analysis identified DYRK1 as one of the main interactors of FAM53C and the interaction was confirmed in vitro. Further, they showed that purified FAM53C blocked the ability of DYRK1 to phosphorylate cyclin D in vitro although the activity of DYRK1 was likely not inhibited (judging from the modification of FAM53C itself). Instead, it seems more likely that FAM53C competes with cyclin D in this assay. Authors claim that the G1 arrest caused by depletion of FAM53C was rescued by inhibition of DYRK1 but this was true only in cells lacking functional p53. This is quite confusing as DYRK1 inhibition reduced the fraction of G1 cells in p53 wild type cells as well as in p53 knock-outs, suggesting that FAM53C may not be required for regulation of DYRK1 function. Instead of focusing on the impact of FAM53C on cell cycle progression, authors moved towards investigating its potential (and perhaps more complex) roles in differentiation of IPSCs into cortical organoids and in mice. They observed a lower level of proliferating cells in the organoids but if that reflects an increased activity of DYRK1 or if it is just an off-target effect of the genetic manipulation remains unclear. Even less clear is the phenotype in FAM53C knock-out mice. Authors did not observe any significant changes in survival nor in organ development but they noted some behavioral differences. Weather and how these are connected to the rate of cellular proliferation was not explored. In the summary, the study identified previously unknown role of FAM53C in proliferation but failed to explain the mechanism and its physiological relevance at the level of tissues and organism. Although some of the data might be of interest, in current form the data is too preliminary to justify publication.

      Major comments:

      (1) Whole study is based on one siRNA to Fam53C and its specificity was not validated. Level of the knock down was shown only in the first figure and not in the other experiments. The observed phenotypes in the cell cycle progression may be affected by variable knock-down efficiency and/or potential off target effects.

      We fully acknowledge these limitations in our study. First, we agree that the efficiency of the knock-down can be variable across experiments; unfortunately, antibodies against FAM53C are currently still not optimal and immunoassays against this protein have not always been reliable in our hands. It will be important in the future to develop better antibodies for this poorly studied factor. Second, we also agree that the siRNA pool is perhaps not optimal (note that we used a pool, not a single siRNA). We provide data in the manuscript that single siRNAs (from the pool) also arrest cells in G1. Our data also show that this arrest in observed in several cell lines (cancerous and not cancerous), in a p53 independent but RB dependent way. We further note that we also provide data in cortical spheroids derived from CRISPR/Cas9 knockout iPSCs showing a similar inhibition of proliferation, validating our observations in a completely orthogonal system. Finally, overexpression studies support a role for FAM53C at the G1/S transition (i.e., FAM53C overexpression is sufficient to promote proliferation).

      (2) Experiments focusing on the cell cycle progression were done in a single cell line RPE1 that showed a strong sensitivity to FAM53C depletion. In contrast, phenotypes in IPSCs and in mice were only mild suggesting that there might be large differences across various cell types in the expression and function of FAM53C. Therefore, it is important to reproduce the observations in other cell types.

      As mentioned above, we have observed cell cycle arrest in several cancer cell lines (U2OS, A549, HCT-116) and in iPSC-derived organoids. We acknowledge that RPE-1 cells seem most sensitive to the knock-down and, currently, we do not understand why. In the future, it will be critical to gain a better understanding of the cellular/genetic contexts in which FAM53C plays more important roles in the G1/S transition; it will be also critical to understand what mechanisms may compensate for loss of FAM53C in cells, in culture and in vivo.

      (3) Authors state that FAM53C is a direct inhibitor of DYRK1A kinase activity (Line 203), however this model is not supported by the data in Fig 4A. FAM53C seems to be a good substrate of DYRK1 even at high concentrations when phosphorylations of cyclin D is reduced. It rather suggests that DYRK1 is not inhibited by FAM53C but perhaps FAM53C competes with cyclin D. Further, authors should address if the phosphorylation of cyclin D is responsible for the observed cell cycle phenotype. Is this Cyclin D-Thr286 phosphorylation, or are there other sites involved?

      We completely agree with the Reviewer that the functional interactions between FAM53C and DYRK1A will need to be explored further. Our data (and other data from mass spectrometry experiments in other contexts) support a model in which FAM53C binds to DYRK1A. Genetics analyses indicate that FAM53C is antagonistic to DYRK1A function. Our phosphorylation assays show decreased DYRK1A activity when FAM53C is present. Because our data also show that DYRK1A phosphorylates FAM53C, there may be more than one level of functional interaction between the two proteins, including effects by DYRK1A on FAM53C through its phosphorylation activity. We state in the text that our data suggest “that FAM53C may be a competitive substrate and/or an inhibitor of DYRK1A”, and we agree that we cannot provide a stronger conclusion at this point.

      We believe that genetic data from DepMap and our data support a model in which Cyclin D is downstream of FAM53C in its regulation of the G1/S progression. As discussed with Reviewer #1, it has proven challenging to investigate how FAM53C may control the phosphorylation and degradation of Cyclin D. Thr286 is certainly a critical phosphorylation site, and this residue can be phosphorylated by DYRK1A, but whether FAM53C and DYRK1A engage with other residues or domains is not known and should be the focus of future studies.

      (4) At many places, information on statistical tests is missing and SDs are not shown in the plots. For instance, what statistics was used in Fig 4C? Impact of FAM53C on cyclin D phosphorylation does not seem to be significant. In the same experiment, does DYRK1 inhibitor prevent modification of cyclin D?

      We thank the Reviewer for this comment. We made sure in the revised version to mention all the statistical tests used.

      (5) Validation of SM13797 compound in terms of specificity to DYRK1 was not performed.

      We provided tables in Figure S3 that summarize the biochemical characterization of this DYRK1A inhibitor (performed by Biosplice Therapeutics, where this compound was developed)

      (6) A fraction of cells in G1 is a very easy readout but it does not measure progression through the G1 phase. Extension of the S phase or G2 delay would indirectly also result in reduction of the G1 fraction. Instead, authors could measure the dynamics of entry to S phase in cells released from a G1 block or from mitotic shake off.

      This is an interesting point raised by the Reviewer. It is correct that we only performed a more in-depth characterization of cell cycle phenotypes in certain contexts (e.g., cell counting, EdU incorporation) (see Figures 1 and S1). It is possible that different cell types adapt differently to loss or overexpression of FAM53C, and assays to synchronize the cells, including by mitotic shake off, maybe useful in future experiments to further characterize the cell cycle of FAM53C mutant cells.

      Comments to the revised manuscript:

      In the revised version of the manuscript, authors addressed most of the critical points. They now include new data with depletion of FAM53C using single siRNAs that show small but significant enrichment of population of the G1 cells. This G1 arrest is likely caused by a combined effects on induction of p21 expression and decreased levels of cyclin D1. Authors observed that inhibition of DYRK1 rescued cyclin D1 levels in FAM53 depleted cells suggesting that FAM53C may inhibit DYRK1. This possibility is also supported by in vitro experiments. On the other hand, inhibition of DYRK1 did not rescue the G1 arrest upon depletion of FAM53C, suggesting that FAM53C may have also DYRK1-independent role in G1. Functional rescue experiments with cyclin D1 mutants and detection of DYRK1 activity in cells would be necessary to conclusively explain the function of FAM53C in progression through G1 phase but unfortunately these experiments were technically not possible. Knock out of FAM53C in iPSCs and in mice suggest that FAM53C may have additional functions besides the cell cycle control and/or that adaptation may have occurred in these model systems. Overall, the study implicated FAM53C in fine tuning DYRK1 activity in cells that may to some extent influence the progression through G1 phase. In addition, FAM53C may also have DYRK1 and cell cycle independent functions that remain to be addressed by future studies.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      All my minor points (6-11) were addressed adequately. No further comments.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The paper's conclusions would be substantially strengthened and the primary concern about off-target effects could be definitively resolved by performing one of the following two experiments:

      (1) Perform a rescue experiment. This would involve transfecting RPE-1 cells with an expression vector for an siRNA-resistant FAM53C cDNA (alongside a control vector) and then treating the cells with the FAM53C siRNAs. If the G1 arrest is a true on-target effect, the cells expressing the resistant cDNA should be "rescued" and continue to proliferate, while the control cells arrest. This is the most direct and standard way to validate a phenotype derived from siRNA.

      (2) Use an acute gene deletion approach that bypasses siRNAs entirely. The authors could use a lentiviral gRNA/Cas9 system to induce acute knockout of FAM53C in RPE-1 cells and assess the cell cycle phenotype at an early time point (e.g., 48-72 hours post-infection). This would provide a direct comparison to the acute siRNA knockdown, and if it recapitulates the strong G1 arrest, it would confirm the phenotype is due to FAM53C loss and not an artifact of the RNAi machinery. The current knockout models (iPSC, mice) are stable and long-term, which allows for the compensatory mechanism argument; an acute knockout would be a much stronger control. The authors could then also follow the fate of the cells and determine the nature of the suspected compensatory mechanisms.

      Addressing this central point is critical for the credibility of the proposed G1/S control element.

      As discussed above, the observations of similar phenotypes in four cell lines (RPE-1 cells and three cancer cell lines) using a pool of siRNAs and in cortical organoids derived from iPSCs using a knockout approach strongly support our results. But we agree that our current study has limitations, including the lack of genetic re-introduction of FAM53C in knock-down or mutant cells. We also note that strong genetic evidence points to a role for FAM53C at the G1/S transition. We hope that some of the readers will be excited by FAM53C as an understudied factor with possible critical roles in fundamental cell biology and human diseases, and future studies will continue to investigate its function in cells using additional approaches.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important study investigates how differences in heart anatomy and electrical activity relate to observed patterns in ECG signals, with potential implications for understanding sex‑ and disease‑related variation. The study has several compelling strengths, including the development of an open-source pipeline for reconstruction and analysis of heart/torso geometry from a large cohort. However, the strength of evidence remains incomplete, as the conclusions rely heavily on linear modeling approaches whose assumptions are not fully validated, and for which the impact of model error and non‑linear interactions has not been rigorously quantified. The work will be of interest to researchers studying cardiovascular physiology and data‑driven modeling, but the main claims require stronger analytical support. In particular, it would benefit from a more robust evaluation of model uncertainty, clearer presentation of the mathematical framework, and comparison to alternative regression strategies that can better address collinearity and non‑linearity.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This paper provides solid electrophysiological evidence that an individual's effort expenditure increases the subjective value of a subsequent reward when the beneficiary is the individual themselves, but decreases the subjective value of a reward when the beneficiary is someone else. These findings have valuable implications for our understanding of how effort investment shapes reward evaluation during prosocial behavior.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors test the hypotheses, using an effort-exertion and an effort-based decision-making task, while recording brain dynamics with EEG, that the brain processes reward outcomes for effort differentially when they earned for themselves versus others.

      Strengths:

      The strengths of this experiment include what appears to be a novel finding of opposite signed effects of effort on the processing of reward outcomes when the recipient is self versus others. Also, the experiment is well-designed, the study seems sufficiently powered, and the data and code are publicly available.

      Weaknesses:

      There is some concern about the fact that participants report feeling less subjective effort, but also more disliking of tasks when they were earning rewards for others versus self. The concern is that participants worked with less vigor during self-versus-others trials and this may partly account for a key two-way Recipient x Effort interaction on the size of the Reward Positivity EEG component. Of note, participants took longer to complete tasks when working for others. While it is true that, in all cases, participants met the requisite task demands (they pressed the required number of buttons) they did so more sluggishly when earning rewards for others. The Authors argue that this reflects less motivation when working for others, which is a plausible explanation. The Authors also try to rule out this diminished vigor as a confounding explanation by showing that the two way interaction remains even when including reaction times (and also self-reported task liking) as a covariate. Nevertheless, it is possible that covariates do not fully account for the effects of differential motivation levels which would otherwise explain the two-way interaction. As such, I think a caveat is warranted regarding this particular result.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Measurements of the reward positivity, an electrophysiological component elicited during reward evaluation, have previously been used to understand how self-benefitting effort expenditure influences processing of rewards. The present study is the first to complement those measurements with electrophysiological reward after-effects of effort expenditure during prosocial acts. The results provide solid evidence that effort adds reward value when the recipient of the reward is the self but discounts reward value when the beneficiary is another individual.

      Strengths:

      An important strength of the study is that amount of effort, the prospective reward, the recipient of the reward, and whether the reward was actually gained or not were parametrically and orthogonally varied. In addition, the researchers examined whether the pattern of results generalized to decisions about future efforts. The sample size (N=40) and mixed-effects regression models are also appropriate for addressing the key research questions. Those conclusions are plausible and adequately supported by statistical analyses.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The authors test the hypotheses, using an effort-exertion and an effort-based decision-making task, while recording brain dynamics with EEG, that the brain processes reward outcomes for effort differentially when they earned for themselves versus others.

      The strengths of this experiment include what appears to be a novel finding of opposite signed effects of effort on the processing of reward outcomes when the recipient is self versus others. Also, the experiment is well-designed, the study seems sufficiently powered, and the data and code are publicly available.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for the affirmative appraisal of our manuscript as well as the thoughtful and insightful comments, which have enabled us to significantly improve the manuscript.

      (1) Inferences rely heavily on the results of mixed effects models which may or may not be properly specified and are not supported by complementary analyses.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for raising this critical issue of model specification. We have re-fitted our mixed-effects models and performed complementary analyses to validate the robustness of our findings. Specifically, we adopted the maximal converging random-effects structure (including random slopes for Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude where feasible) while ensuring model stability (see Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 2). Crucially, our primary findings, including the Recipient × Effort and Recipient × Effort × Magnitude interactions, remained robust. Furthermore, additional analyses confirmed that these results were not confounded by factors such as response speed and subjective effort rating (see Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 5).

      (2) Also, not all results hang together in a sensible way. For example, participants report feeling less subjective effort, but also more disliking of tasks when they were earning rewards for others versus self. Given that participants took longer to complete tasks when earning effort for others, it is conceivable that participants might have been working less hard for others versus themselves, and this may complicate the interpretation of results.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this insightful point (which also relates to Reviewer #3’s point 5). In our study, participants were asked to rate three specific dimensions: Effort (“How much effort did you exert to complete each effort condition when earning rewards for yourself [or the other person]?”), Difficulty (“How much difficulty did you perceive in each effort condition when earning rewards for yourself [or the other person]?”), and liking (“How much did you like each effort condition when earning rewards for yourself [or the other person]?”).

      We acknowledge the Reviewer #1’s concern that the lower subjective effort ratings for others seems contradictory to the higher disliking and longer completion times. We propose that in this paradigm, subjective effort ratings are susceptible to demand characteristics and likely captured motivational engagement (e.g., “how hard I tried” or “how willing I was”) rather than perceived task demands. To disentangle these factors, we included a measure of perceived task difficulty, which is anchored in task properties and is less prone to social desirability biases (Harmon-Jones et al., 2020; Wright et al., 1990). We found no differences in perceived difficulty between self- and other-benefiting trials (Figure 2D), suggesting that the task demands were perceived as equivalent across conditions. To examine this interpretation more directly, we analyzed correlations among participants’ ratings of difficulty, effort, and liking. As illustrated in Figure S1, we found no correlation between difficulty and effort ratings. Crucially, liking ratings were negatively correlated with difficulty ratings.

      More importantly, our performance data contradict the interpretation that participants “worked less hard” for others in terms of task completion. While participants took longer to complete tasks for others, they maintained comparable, near-ceiling success rates for self (97%) and other (96%) recipients (b = -0.46, p = 0.632; Supplementary Table S1). This dissociation suggests that although participants were less motivated (e.g., lower subjective ratings, longer completion times, and greater disliking) to work for others, they ultimately exerted the necessary physical effort to achieve successful outcomes. Thus, the results consistently point to a decrease in prosocial motivation (consistent with prosocial apathy) rather than a failure of effort exertion.

      Wright, R. A., Shaw, L. L., & Jones, C. R. (1990). Task demand and cardiovascular response magnitude: Further evidence of the mediating role of success importance. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 59(6), 1250-1260. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.59.6.1250

      Harmon-Jones, E., Willoughby, C., Paul, K., & Harmon-Jones, C. (2020). The effect of perceived effort and perceived control on reward valuation: Using the reward positivity to test a dissonance theory prediction. Biological Psychology, 107910. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.biopsycho.2020.107910

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Measurements of the reward positivity, an electrophysiological component elicited during reward evaluation, have previously been used to understand how self-benefitting effort expenditure influences the processing of rewards. The present study is the first to complement those measurements with electrophysiological reward after-effects of effort expenditure during prosocial acts. The results provide solid evidence that effort adds reward value when the recipient of the reward is the self but discounts reward value when the beneficiary is another individual.

      An important strength of the study is that the amount of effort, the prospective reward, the recipient of the reward, and whether the reward was actually gained or not were parametrically and orthogonally varied. In addition, the researchers examined whether the pattern of results generalized to decisions about future efforts. The sample size (N=40) and mixed-effects regression models are also appropriate for addressing the key research questions. Those conclusions are plausible and adequately supported by statistical analyses.

      We appreciate Reviewer #2’s positive appraisal of our manuscript. We are fortunate to receive your thoughtful and insightful suggestions and have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      (1) Although the obtained results are highly plausible, I am concerned whether the reward positivity (RewP) and P3 were adequately measured. The RewP and P3 were defined as the average voltage values in the time intervals 300-400 ms and 300-440 ms after feedback onset, respectively. So they largely overlapped in time. Although the RewP measure was based on frontocentral electrodes (FC3, FCz, and FC4) and the P3 on posterior electrodes (P3, Pz, and P4), the scalp topographies in Figure 3 show that the RewP effects were larger at the posterior electrodes used for the P3 than at frontocentral electrodes. So there is a concern that the RewP and P3 were not independently measured. This type of problem can often be resolved using a spatiotemporal principal component analysis. My faith in the conclusions drawn would be further strengthened if the researchers extracted separate principal components for the RewP and P3 and performed their statistical analyses on the corresponding factor scores.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for raising this issue. We would like to clarify that these two components were time-locked to different types of feedback and therefore reflect neural responses to distinct stages of the prosocial effort task. Specifically, the P3 was time-locked to performance feedback (the effort-completion cue; e.g., the tick shown in Figure 1B), whereas the RewP was time-locked to reward feedback (e.g., the display of “+0.6”). Thus, despite the numerical similarity in the post-stimulus windows, the components capture neural activity evoked by independent events separated in time, corresponding to the performance monitoring versus reward evaluation stages of the task. To avoid misunderstanding, we have made this distinction more explicit in the revised manuscript, which now reads, “Single-trial RewP amplitude was measured as mean voltage from 300 to 400 ms relative to reward feedback onset (i.e., reward delivery) over frontocentral channels (FC3, FCz, FC4). We also measured the parietal P3 (300–440 ms; averaged across P3, Pz, and P4) in response to performance feedback (i.e., effort completion), given its relationship with motivational salience (Bowyer et al., 2021; Ma et al., 2014)” (page 27, para. 1, lines 2–6).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This study investigates how effort influences reward evaluation during prosocial behaviour using EEG and experimental tasks manipulating effort and rewards for self and others. Results reveal a dissociable effect: for self-benefitting effort, rewards are evaluated more positively as effort increases, while for other-benefitting effort, rewards are evaluated less positively with higher effort. This dissociation, driven by reward system activation and independent of performance, provides new insights into the neural mechanisms of effort and reward in prosocial contexts.

      This work makes a valuable contribution to the prosocial behaviour literature by addressing areas that previous research has largely overlooked. It highlights the paradoxical effect of effort on reward evaluation and opens new avenues for investigating the mechanisms underlying this phenomenon. The study employs well-established tasks with robust replication in the literature and innovatively incorporates ERPs to examine effort-based prosocial decision-making - an area insufficiently explored in prior work. Moreover, the analyses are rigorous and grounded in established methodologies, further enhancing the study's credibility. These elements collectively underscore the study's significance in advancing our understanding of effort-based decision-making.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for the positive assessment. We are particularly encouraged by the reviewer’s recognition of our novel integration of ERPs to uncover the distinct effects of effort on reward evaluation for self versus others. We have carefully addressed the specific recommendations raised in the subsequent comments to further strengthen the rigor and clarity of the manuscript.

      (1) Incomplete EEG Reporting: The methods indicate that EEG activity was recorded for both tasks; however, the manuscript reports EEG results only for the first task, omitting the decision-making task. If the authors claim a paradoxical effect of effort on self versus other rewards, as revealed by the RewP component, this should also be confirmed with results from the decision-making task. Omitting these findings weakens the overall argument.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for giving us the opportunity to verify the specific roles of our two tasks. The primary aim of our study is to elucidate the neural after-effects of effort exertion on subsequent reward evaluation during prosocial acts. The prosocial effort task was specifically designed for this purpose, as it involves actual effort expenditure followed by reward outcomes. Furthermore, this task uses preset effort-reward combinations, ensuring balanced trial counts and adequate signal-to-noise ratios across conditions, a critical requirement for robust ERP analysis. In contrast, the prosocial decision-making task was included specifically to quantify behavioral preference (i.e., prosocial effort discounting) rather than neural reward processing. Specifically, this task involves choices without immediate effort execution and reward feedback, making it impossible to examine the neural after-effects of effort exertion. However, the decision-making task remains indispensable for our study structure: it provides an independent behavioral phenomenon of prosocial apathy, which allowed us to link individual differences in behavioral motivation to the neural dissociations observed in the prosocial effort tasks (as detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #3’s 2). Thus, the two tasks provide complementary, rather than redundant, insights into the behavioral and neural mechanism of prosocial effort.

      (2) Neural and Behavioural Integration: The neural results should be contrasted with behavioural data both within and between tasks. Specifically, the manuscript could examine whether neural responses predict performance within each task and whether neural and behavioural signals correlate across tasks. This integration would provide a more comprehensive understanding of the mechanisms at play.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for this insightful and helpful suggestion. We agree that linking neural signatures with behavioral patterns is crucial for establishing the functional significance for our ERP findings. Regarding within-task association, it is important to note that the prosocial effort task was designed to require participants to exert fixed, preset levels of physical effort to earn uncertain rewards. This experimental control was necessary to standardize effort exertion across self-benefiting and other benefiting trials, thereby minimizing confounds such as differences in physical or perceived effort prior to the feedback phase. Indeed, the neural after-effects remained after controlling for these behavioral measures (i.e., response speed and self-reported effort; as detailed in responses to Reviewer #1’Recommendations point 5). Furthermore, unlike the prosocial effort task, the decision-making task inherently precludes the examination of the neural after-effects of effort; therefore, within-task association in this task was not possible.

      Given these considerations, we focused on the cross-task association. We examined whether the neural after-effects of effort (indexed by the RewP) in the prosocial effort task were modulated by individual differences in effort discounting. We used the K value estimated from the prosocial decision-making task as the index of effort discounting. We entered the K value (log-transformed and z-scored) as a continuous predictor into the mixed-effects models of RewP amplitudes. The full regression estimates for the model are presented in Table S1 (left).

      We observed a significant four-way interaction among recipient, effort, magnitude, and K value (b = 0.58, p = 0.013). To decompose this complex interaction, we performed simple slopes analyses separately for self- and other-benefiting trials at high and low levels of reward magnitude and discounting rate (±1 SD). As shown in Figure S2, for self-benefiting trials, the effort-enhancement effect on the RewP was significant only for participants with high discounting rates at low reward magnitude (b = 1.02, 95% CI = [0.22, 1.82], p = 0.012). In contrast, participants with low discounting rates exhibited no significant effort effect (b = -0.37, 95% CI = [-0.89, 0.15], p = 0.159). At high reward magnitude, simple slopes analyses detected no significant effort effects for either high (b = 0.35, 95% CI = [-0.44, 1.14], p = 0.383) or low (b = 0.45, 95% CI = [-0.07, 0.97], p = 0.093) discounting individuals. These findings strongly support the cognitive dissonance account (Aronson & Mills, 1959): those who find effort most aversive are most compelled to inflate the value of small rewards to justify their exertion. For these individuals, the completion of a costly action for a small reward may trigger a stronger internal justification effect, resulting in an amplified neural reward response.

      For other-benefiting trials, participants with low discounting rates exhibited a significant effort-discounting effect at high reward magnitude (b = -0.97, 95% CI = [-1.74, -0.20], p = 0.014). In contrast, no significant effort effects were observed for participants with high discounting rates at either high (b = -0.45, 95% CI = [-0.97, 0.08], p = 0.098) or low (b = -0.16, 95% CI = [-0.69, 0.38], p = 0.564) reward magnitudes, nor for participants with low discounting rates at low reward magnitude (b = 0.14, 95% CI = [-0.64, 0.92], p = 0.729). These results suggest that the justification mechanism observed for self-benefiting effort appears absent for other-benefiting effort. Instead, we observed a persistent effort discounting before, during, and after effort expenditure, which was most pronounced in individuals with low effort sensitivity (low K) when reward magnitude was high. This seemingly paradoxical pattern might be interpreted through the lens of disadvantageous inequity aversion (Fehr & Schmidt, 1999). Specifically, the combination of high personal effort and high monetary reward for another person creates a salient disparity between the participant’s incurred cost and the recipient’s gain. Although low-K individuals are behaviorally willing to tolerate this cost, their neural valuation system may nonetheless track the “unfairness” of this asymmetry, thereby attenuating the neural reward signal (Tricomi et al., 2010). These insights suggest that facilitating prosocial behavior may require not just lowering costs, but potentially framing outcomes to trigger the effort justification mechanisms that drive the effort paradox observed in self-benefiting acts (Inzlicht & Campbell, 2022).

      To confirm this four-way interaction, we also replaced the high-effort choice proportions in the decision-making task and observed a similar four-way interaction among recipient, effort, magnitude, and high-effort choice proportions (b = -0.58, p = 0.014; see Table S1 for detailed regression estimates). Together, this cross-task analysis not only provides a more comprehensive understanding of the mechanisms at play but also justifies the inclusion of the prosocial decision-making task. We sincerely thank Reviewer #3’ for this valuable suggestion, which has significantly strengthened our manuscript. We have included this analysis (page 16, para. 2; page 17, paras. 1–2) and discussed the results (page 20, para. 2, lines 10–15; page 20, para. 3; page 21, para. 1, lines 1–8) in the revised manuscript.

      Aronson, E., & Mills, J. (1959). The effect of severity of initiation on liking for a group. The Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology, 59(2), 177-181. https://doi.org/10.1037/h0047195

      Fehr, E., & Schmidt, K. M. (1999). A theory of fairness, competition, and cooperation. The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 114(3), 817-868. http://www.jstor.org/stable/2586885

      Tricomi, E., Rangel, A., Camerer, C. F., & O'Doherty, J. P. (2010). Neural evidence for inequality-averse social preferences. Nature, 463(7284), 1089-1091. https://doi.org/10.1038/nature08785

      (3) Success Rate and Model Structure: The manuscript does not clearly report the success rate in the prosocial effort task. If success rates are low, risk aversion could confound the results. Additionally, it is unclear whether the models accounted for successful versus unsuccessful trials or whether success was included as a covariate. If this information is present, it needs to be explicitly clarified. The exclusion criteria for unsuccessful trials in both tasks should also be detailed. Moreover, the decision to exclude electrodes as independent variables in the models warrants an explanation.

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify these points. In the revised manuscript, we have now explicitly reported the descriptive statistics and the results of a mixed-effects logistic model on response success in the revised manuscript (page 8, para. 1, lines 2–4; Supplementary Table S1). Participants achieved similarly high success rates in both self (M = 97%) and other trials (M = 96%; Figure S3). As shown in Table S2, success rates decreased as effort increased (b = -4.77, p < 0.001). However, no other effects reached significance (ps > 0.245). These near-ceiling success rates indicate strong task engagement and effectively rule out risk aversion as a potential confound.

      Regarding model structure, we excluded unsuccessful trials from statistical analyses because they were rare and distributed equally across conditions. Given the near-ceiling performance, we did not include success rate as a covariate, as it offers limited variance.

      Finally, we did not include electrodes as an independent variable because our hypotheses focused on condition effects rather than topographic differences. Following established research (e.g., Krigolson, 2018; Proudfit, 2015), we averaged RewP amplitudes across a frontocentral cluster (FC3, FCz, and FC4) and P3 amplitudes across a parietal cluster (P3, Pz, and P4), where activity is typically maximal. Averaging across these theoretically grounded clusters improves the signal-to-noise ratio and provides more reliable estimates of the underlying components. We have explicitly included this rationale in the revised manuscript, which reads, “Data were averaged across the selected electrode clusters to improve signal-to-noise ratio and reliability” (page 27, para. 1, lines 9–10).

      Proudfit, G. H. (2015). The reward positivity: From basic research on reward to a biomarker for depression. Psychophysiology, 52(4), 449-459. https://doi.org/10.1111/psyp.12370

      Krigolson, O. E. (2018). Event-related brain potentials and the study of reward processing: Methodological considerations. Int J Psychophysiol, 132(Pt B), 175-183. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijpsycho.2017.11.007

      (4) Prosocial Decision Computational Modelling: The prosocial decision task largely replicates prior behavioural findings but misses the opportunity to directly test the hypotheses derived from neural data in the prosocial effort task. If the authors propose a paradoxical effect of effort on self-rewards and an inverse effect for prosocial effort, this could be formalised in a computational model. A model comparison could evaluate the proposed mechanism against alternative theories, incorporating the complex interplay of effort and reward for self and others. Furthermore, these parameters should be correlated with neural signals, adding a critical layer of evidence to the claims. As it is, the inclusion of the prosocial decision task seems irrelevant.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for this thoughtful suggestion regarding the value of computational modelling. We fully agree that formalizing mechanisms is crucial, but we would like to clarify why a computational model of decision-making cannot directly capture the paradoxical after-effects observed in our neural data. The paradoxical after-effect of effort exertion we report refers to experienced utility (i.e., how prior costs modulate the hedonic consumption of a reward), whereas the decision task measures decision utility (i.e., how prospective costs and benefits are integrated to guide choice). We included the prosocial decision task to establish a behavioral baseline and replicate the well-documented phenomenon of prosocial apathy. Consistent with prior work (e.g., Lockwood et al., 2017; Lockwood et al., 2022), our data show that at the decision stage (ex-ante), effort functions as a universal cost: participants discounted rewards for both self and others, differing only quantitatively (steeper discounting for others). It is only after effort is exerted (ex-post) that the pattern reverses: effort is valued for self but remains costly for others, representing a qualitative shift. Crucially, incorporating a "paradoxical valuation" parameter (i.e., effort as a reward) into our decision model would mathematically contradict the behavioral reality. Since participants actively avoided high-effort options, a model assuming effort adds value might fail to fit the choice data. The theoretical novelty of our study lies precisely in this temporal dissociation: whereas self-benefiting effort paradoxically enhances reward valuation, other-benefiting effort induces a persistent reward devaluation.

      To address the reviewer’s interest in bridging these two domains, we examined whether these distinct stages are linked at the level of individual differences. We hypothesized that an individual’s sensitivity to prospective effort cost (discounting rate K) might modulate their susceptibility to the retrospective neural after-effect. As detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #3’s point 2, we found that for self-benefiting trials, high-discounting individuals showed an effort-enhancement effect on the RewP at low reward magnitude, while for other-benefiting trials, low-discounting individuals exhibited effort-discounting effects at high reward magnitude. We sincerely thank Reviewer #3’ for this valuable suggestion, which has successfully correlated the two tasks and facilitated our understanding of the mechanisms at play.

      Lockwood, P. L., Hamonet, M., Zhang, S. H., Ratnavel, A., Salmony, F. U., Husain, M., & Apps, M. A. J. (2017). Prosocial apathy for helping others when effort is required. Nat Hum Behav, 1(7), 0131. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-017-0131.

      Lockwood, P. L., Wittmann, M. K., Nili, H., Matsumoto-Ryan, M., Abdurahman, A., Cutler, J., Husain, M., & Apps, M. A. J. (2022). Distinct neural representations for prosocial and self-benefiting effort. Curr Biol, 32(19), 4172-4185 e4177. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2022.08.010.

      (5) Contradiction Between Effort Perception and Neural Results: Participants reported effort as less effortful in the prosocial condition compared to the self condition, which seems contradictory to the neural findings and the authors' interpretation. If effort has a discounting effect on rewards for others, one might expect it to feel more effortful. How do the authors reconcile these results? Additionally, the relationship between behavioural data and neural responses should be examined to clarify these inconsistencies.

      This point aligns with the issues raised in Reviewer #1’s point 2. We acknowledge the apparent discrepancy between lower reported effort in the prosocial condition and the neural discounting effect. As detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #1’s point 2, we reconcile this by proposing that subjective effort ratings in this paradigm likely reflect motivational engagement (e.g., “how hard I tried” or “how willing I was”) rather than perceived task demands. Under this interpretation, the lower effort ratings for others reflect a withdrawal of engagement (consistent with prosocial apathy), which conceptually aligns with, rather than contradicts, the neural discounting effect. To validate this, we contrasted effort ratings with difficulty ratings (a more reliable index of objective demand). Our correlational analysis revealed no significant relationship between difficulty and effort ratings (r = -0.21, p = 0.196), suggesting that they capture distinct constructs. Furthermore, liking ratings were negatively correlated with difficulty ratings (r = -0.43, p = 0.011) but not with effort ratings (r = 0.32, p = 0.061), further dissociating the two measures. Crucially, as detailed in our Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 5, our RewP effects remained significant even after controlling for individual effort ratings. This demonstrates that the neural effort-discounting effect for others is a physiological signature that operates independently of the subjective report bias.

      (6) Necessary Revisions to Manuscript: If the authors address the issues above, corresponding updates to the introduction and discussion sections could strengthen the narrative and align the manuscript with the additional analyses.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for the above insightful and helpful comments. We have carefully addressed these issues raised above and have updated the manuscript accordingly, including abstract, introduction, result, and discussion sections.

      Recommendations for the Authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments:

      (1) The two biggest concerns I have are

      - Whether the mixed-effect models are properly specified, and

      - Whether the main interaction between the Recipient and effort on the reward positivity (RewP) reflects different levels of effort exertion when working for self versus others.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for identifying these two critical issues. We have carefully considered these points and conducted additional analyses to address them. Below, we provide a detailed response to each concern, explaining how we have improved the model specification and ruled out alternative interpretations regarding effort exertion.

      (2) On the first point, I noticed that the authors selectively excluded random effects for Effort and Magnitude when regressing RewP on Effort, Magnitude, Recipient, and Valence. This is important because the key result in the paper is a fixed effect two-way interaction between Recipient and Effort and a three-way interaction between Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude. It is not clear that these results will remain significant when Effort and Magnitude are included as random effects in the model. Thus the authors should justify their exclusion as random effects, and/or show that the results don't depend on including those random effects in the model. The same logic applies to the specification of other mixed effects models (e.g. the effect of Magnitude in the model predicting RTs).

      We thank Reviewer #1 for raising this important methodological point. We fully agree that including random slopes wherever possible reduces Type 1 error rates and yields more conservative tests of fixed effects. In our analyses, we determined the random effects structure for each model using singular value decomposition (SVD). Specifically, we began with a maximal model that included by-participant random slopes for all main effects and interactions as well as a participant-level random intercept. When the model failed to converge or yielded a singular fit, we applied SVD to identify redundant dimensions (i.e., components explaining zero variance) and iteratively removed these terms until convergence was achieved. This procedure allowed us to retain the maximal converging random-effects structure while ensuring model stability. We have clarified this procedure in the revised manuscript as follows, “For each model, we fitted the maximal random-effects structure and, when the model was overparameterized, used singular value decomposition to simplify the random-effects structure until the model converged” (page 28, para. 1, lines 5–8).

      Regarding the RewP model, including all variables (i.e., Recipient, Effort, Magnitude, and Valence) in the random-effects structure resulted in a boundary (singular) fit. Examination of the variance-covariance structure of the random effects revealed that the random slopes for Valence and Magnitude were perfectly negatively correlated (r = -1.00), indicating severe overparameterization. In our original submission, we removed the random slopes for Effort and Magnitude because the SVD analysis indicated redundant dimensions in the model structure.

      However, we agree with the Reviewer that retaining slopes for variables involved in key interactions is crucial. Therefore, we re-evaluated the model strategy: instead of removing Effort and Magnitude, we removed the random slope for Valence (which was the primary source of the perfect correlation). This modification successfully resolved the singularity while allowing us to retain the random slopes for the critical variables (i.e., Effort and Magnitude).

      Critically, this updated model yielded the same pattern of results as our original submission: the two-way interaction between Recipient and Effort and the three-way interaction between Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude remained significant (see Table S3). As expected, including the random slopes for Effort and Magnitude yielded a more conservative test of the fixed effects. While the critical three-way interaction remained significant (p = 0.019), the simple slope for the Self condition at high reward magnitude shifted slightly from significant (p = 0.041) to marginally significant (p = 0.056). However, the effect size remained largely unchanged (b = 0.42 vs. original b = 0.43), and the dissociation pattern, where self-benefiting trials show a positive trend while other-benefiting trials show a significant negative slope, remains robust and is statistically supported by the significant interaction. We have adopted this updated model in the revised manuscript and updated the relevant sections accordingly. Finally, note that we have removed the RewP table from the Supplementary Materials because the RewP model results are now presented as a figure in the main text (as suggested by Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 3).

      We have also carefully verified the random effects structures for other mixed-effects models, including the RT and Performance-P3 models in the prosocial effort task, as well as the decision time and decision choice models in the prosocial decision-making task. The updated information is detailed as follows:

      Regarding the RT model, we replaced it with a more reasonable model of response speed (button presses per second), as suggested by Reviewer #1 (see our responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 4 for details).

      Regarding the performance-P3 model, the random-effects structure could only support Effort, as in our original submission; thus, the results remain unchanged.

      Regarding the decision time model, we have updated our results to include the quadratic effort term, as suggested by Reviewer #1 (see our responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 6 for details).

      Regarding the decision choice model, we included Recipient, Effort, and Magnitude in the random-effects structure. As shown in Table S4, the results remain largely consistent with the original model, except for a newly significant interaction between effort and magnitude. Follow-up simple slopes analyses revealed that the discounted effect of effort was more pronounced at low reward magnitude (M − 1SD: b = -2.69, 95% CI = [-3.09, -2.29], p < 0.001) than at high reward magnitude (M + 1SD: b = -2.38, 95% CI = [-2.82, -1.94],p < 0.001).

      In summary, we have improved the model specification following Reviewer #1’s suggestion. Crucially, the results remain qualitatively consistent with our original findings. We have updated the Results section, figures (Figures 2, 4, and 5), and OSF documents (including a new R Markdown file and an HTML output file detailing the final results) to reflect these analyses. Additionally, we have explicitly stated the method used for calculating p-values in the mixed-effects models (page 28, para. 1, lines 8–10), which was omitted in the original submission.

      (3) Regarding the mixed models, it would also be good to show a graphical depiction summarizing key effects (e.g. the Recipient by Effort interaction on RewP) rather than just showing the predictions of the fitted mixed effects models.

      This point is well-taken. Please see Figure S4, which visualizes the key effects and has now been included in the revised manuscript as Figure 4A.

      (4) Finally, regarding the mixed effect models of RTs - given the common finding that RTs are not normally distributed, the Authors might be better off regressing 1/RT (interpreted as speed rather than latency) since 1/RT will often make distributions less asymmetric and heavy-tailed.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this helpful suggestion regarding data distribution. In our original analysis, the dependent variable was “completion time” (i.e., the latency to complete the required button presses with the 6-s window). We agree that these raw latency data exhibited characteristic non-normality (see Figure S5, Left). Based on Reviewer #1’s suggestion, we adopted “response speed” (calculated as button presses per second) as the dependent variable. As expected, this transformation substantially improved the normality of the distribution (see Figure S5, Right). We have refitted the mixed-effects model using this speed metric. Critically, the results largely replicated the patterns observed in our original model, with the exception that the main effect of reward magnitude did not reach significance in the speed model (see Table 5). Given the superior distributional properties of the speed metric, we have replaced the original latency analysis with the response speed model in the revised manuscript. We have updated the Results section (page 8, para. 1, lines 4–9) and Figures 2B–C accordingly.

      (5) Regarding the level of effort exerted, there are two reasons to suspect that participants exerted less for others versus themselves. The first is that they were slower to complete the button pressing for others versus themselves. The second is that they reported paradoxically less subjective effort for others versus self (paradoxical because they also reported liking the task less for others versus self). The explanation for both may be that they exerted less effort for others versus self and this has important implications for interpreting the main effects. If they exerted less effort for others, this may partly account for the key Recipient:Effort and Recipient:Effort:Magnitude interactions in the mixed effects regression of RewP. Do either median effort durations or self-reported effort predict the magnitude of the Recipient:Effort and Recipient:Effort:Magnitude interactions (if these were included as random effects)? If so, that would provide evidence supporting this story. Alternatively, if median durations or self-reported effort were included as covariates, do these interactions still obtain? In any case, the Authors should include caveats regarding this potential explanation of the self-versus-other interactions with effort and magnitude on the RewP" (or explain why this can not explain the interactions).

      We thank Reviewer #1 for raising this important interpretational issue. We acknowledge the concern that differences in physical exertion or perceived effort could potentially confound the neural findings. However, we argue that the observed RewP effects are not driven by these factors for several reasons.

      First, the prosocial effort task enforced fixed effort thresholds (10%–90% of their maximum effort level) across self-benefiting and other-benefiting trials. Importantly, participants achieved ceiling-level success rates that were highly comparable between self-benefiting (97%) and other-benefiting (96%) trials, indicating that they successfully exerted the required effort across conditions.

      Second, regarding the slower response speed for others (we used response speed instead of completion time, as the former is more suitable for statistical analysis; see details in Responses to Reviewer #1’s Recommendations point 4), we interpret this as a reduction in motivation rather than a reduction in the amount of effort exerted. Similarly, as detailed in our Responses to Reviewer#1’s point 2, subjective effort ratings in this paradigm appear to be influenced by demand characteristics and do not reliably track physical exertion. For instance, liking ratings were associated with difficulty (r = -0.43, p = 0.011) instead of effort (r = 0.32, p = 0.061) ratings.

      To empirically rule out the possibility that these behavioral differences account for the neural effect, we followed the reviewer’s suggestion and re-ran the mixed-effects model predicting RewP amplitudes with trial-by-trial response speed and subjective effort rating included as covariates. These control analyses revealed that neither response speed (b = -0.07, p = 0.614) nor self-reported effort (b = 0.10, p = 0.186) significantly predicted RewP amplitudes (see Table S6). Most importantly, the key interactions of interest (Recipient × Effort and Recipient × Effort × Magnitude) remained significant and virtually unchanged. These findings suggest that the observed neural after-effects of prosocial effort are not driven by variations in motor execution or perceived effort.

      Minor comments:

      (6) In Figure 5A a quadratic effect (not a linear effect) seems fairly obvious in decision times as a function of effort level. This makes sense given that participants are close to indifference, on average, around the 50-70% effort level. I recommend fitting a model that has a quadratic predictor and not just a linear predictor when regression decision times on effort levels.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this insightful suggestion. We agree that decision times likely track decision conflict, which typically peaks near indifference points (e.g., moderate effort levels). Accordingly, we reanalyzed the decision time data using a mixed-effects model that included both linear and quadratic terms for effort. As detailed in Table S7, this analysis revealed a significant quadratic main effect of effort, which was further qualified by a significant interaction between the quadratic effort term and reward magnitude. Decomposition of this interaction (Figure S6) revealed that the quadratic effort effect was more pronounced at low reward magnitude (M − 1SD: b = -160.10, 95% CI = [-218.30, -101.90], p < 0.001) than at high reward magnitude (M + 1SD: b = -99.50, 95% CI = [-157.60, -41.40], p = 0.001). However, we found no significant interactions involving the quadratic effort term and recipient. We have updated the Results section (page 13, para. 2; page 14, para. 1) and Figures 5A–B (right panel) to reflect these findings.

      (7) The distinction between the effort and decision-making tasks wasn't super clear from the main text. A sentence early on in the results section could be useful for readers' understanding.

      This point is well taken. In the revised manuscript, we have clarified this distinction at the beginning of the Results section (page 6, para. 2, lines 1–10). In addition, we have explicitly indicated the corresponding task within each subsection heading in the Results:

      “2.1 Investing effort for others is less motivating than for self in the prosocial effort task” (page 7)

      “2.2 Effort adds reward value for self but discounts reward value for others in the prosocial effort task” (page 9)

      “2.3 Reward is devalued by effort to a higher degree for others than for self in the prosocial decision-making task” (page 13)

      (8) To what does "three trials" refer to on lines 143-144?

      Thank you for raising this point. Participants completed three trials in which they were asked to press a button as rapidly as possible with their non-dominant pinky finger for 6000 ms. The maximum effort level was operationalized as the average button-press count across the three trials. To improve clarity, we have also provided more detailed description in the Results section, which reads: “The mean maximum effort level (i.e., the average button-press count across three 6000-ms trials; see Procedure for details) ….” (page 7, para. 1, lines 1–2).

      (9) It is unclear how the authors select their time windows for ERP analyses.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for this comment. Measurement parameters (i.e., time windows and channel sites) were determined based on the grand-averaged ERP waveforms and topographic maps collapsed across all conditions. This procedure is orthogonal to the conditions of interest and prevents bias in the selection of measurement windows and channels, consistent with the “orthogonal selection approach” (Luck & Gaspelin, 2017). We have clarified this point in the revised manuscript, which now reads, “Measurement parameters (time windows and channel sites) were determined from the grand-averaged ERP waveforms and topographic maps collapsed across all conditions, which was thus orthogonal to the conditions of interest (Luck & Gaspelin, 2017)” (page 27, para. 1, lines 6–9).

      Luck, S., & Gaspelin, N. (2017). How to get statistically significant effects in any ERP experiment (and why you shouldn't). Psychophysiology, 54(1), 146-157.

      (10) There are a few typos throughout. For example, Line 124 should read "other half benefitted...", Line 127 should read "interest at each effort level...", "following" on Line 369, and Supplemental table titles incorrectly spell the word "Results".

      We thank Reviewer #1 for catching these errors. We have corrected all the specific typos noted (page 6, para. 2, lines 11 and 15; page 22, para. 3, line 2; Supplementary Table S2). Furthermore, we have conducted a thorough proofreading of the entire text and supplementary materials to ensure linguistic accuracy and consistency throughout the manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor comments:

      (1) Lines 84-86. "The RewP ... has its neural sources in the anterior cingulate cortex (Gehring & Willoughby, 2002) and ventral striatum (Foti et al., 2011)." This is a better reference for the ACC source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23973408/. And perhaps remove the reference to the ventral striatum; most people would agree that activity in the ventral striatum cannot be measured with scalp EEG.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for providing the updated reference, which has been cited in the revised manuscript. We agree that activity in the VS cannot be reliably measured with scalp EEG and thus have removed the reference to the VS. The revised sentence now reads, “… has its neural sources in the anterior cingulate cortex (Gehring & Willoughby, 2002; Hauser et al., 2014)” (page 4, para. 2, lines 12–13).

      (2) Lines 152-153. What exactly is shown in Figure 2A? How did the authors average across subjects?

      We thank Reviewer #2 for raising this issue. Figure 2A depicts the distribution of the maximum effort level, defined as the average button-press count across three 6000-ms trials completed before the prosocial effort task. In these trials, participants were instructed to press the button as rapidly as possible with their non-dominant pinky fingers. To improve clarity, we have revised the figure caption as: “(A) Distribution of the maximum effort level (i.e., the average button-press count across three 6000-ms trials) across participants” (Figure 2).

      (3) Lines 160-164. "As expected (Figure 2D), participants perceived increased effort as more difficult ... and more disliking (b = -0.62, p < 0.001) when the beneficiary was others than themselves." Does this sentence describe the main effect of the beneficiary or the interaction between beneficiary and effort level, as the start of the sentence ("increased effort") suggests?

      We thank Reviewer #2 for pointing out this ambiguity. The sentence describes the main effect of beneficiary rather than the interaction between beneficiary and effort level. In the revised manuscript, we have rephrased the sentence as: “They felt less effort (b = -0.32, p = 0.019) and more disliking (b = -0.62, p = 0.001) for other-benefiting trials compared to self-benefiting trials” (page 9, para. 1, lines 4–6).

      (4) Lines 195-196. "..., we conducted post-hoc simple slopes analyses at -1 SD ("Low") and + SD ("High") reward magnitude." I did not understand what the authors meant with these reward magnitudes, given that the actual potential rewards were ¥0.2, ¥0.4, ¥0.6, ¥0.8, and ¥1.0.

      In our analyses, the actual reward magnitudes (¥0.2, ¥0.4, ¥0.6, ¥0.8, and ¥1.0) were z-scored and entered as a continuous regressor in the mixed-effects models. Post-hoc simple slopes analyses were then conducted at ±1 SD from the mean of the z-scored reward magnitude. To clarify, we have revised the sentence as “… we conducted post-hoc simple slopes analyses at 1 standard deviation (SD) below (“Low”) and above (“High”) the mean reward magnitude” (page 11, para. 2, lines 8–9). This standard method for testing simple effects for continuous predictors is recommended by Aiken and West (1991). Aiken, L. S., West, S. G., & Reno, R. R. (1991). Multiple regression: Testing and interpreting interactions. Sage.

      (5) Lines 253 and 275. I would not call this a computational model. The authors fit a curve to data, there is no model of the computations involved.

      This point is well taken. We have replaced “computational model” with “discounting” (Figure 5) and “parabolic discounting model” (page 15, para. 1, line 15).

      (6) Line 710. Figure S1 does not show topographic maps of the P3, as the figure caption suggests.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for identifying this oversight. We have now included topographic maps of the P3 in Figure S1.

      (7) Please check language in lines 33 (effect between), 38 (shape), 49 (highest cost form?), 74 (tunning), 90 (omit following), 127 (interest on at each effort level), 135 (press buttons >> rapidly press a button?), 142 (motivated), 219 (should low be high?), 265-266 (missing word), 275 (confirmed by following), 292 (an action can be effortful, a feeling cannot), 315 (when it comes into), 330-331 (data is plural; the aftereffect of prosocial effect), 387 (interest on at each effort level), 405 (should quickly be often?).

      We thank Reviewer #2 for the careful review and feedback about these language issues. We have revised all the phrasing you identified. The corrections are as follows:

      Line 33: “effect between” has been changed to “effects for” (page 2, para. 1, line 6).

      Line 38: “shape” has been updated to “shapes” (page 2, para. 1, line 13).

      Line 49: “highest cost form?” has been revised to “the most common cost type” (page 3, para. 1, lines 7–8).

      Line 74: “tunning” has been corrected to “tuning” (page 4, para. 2, line 1).

      Line 90: omit following. Done (page 5, para. 1, line 2).

      Line 127: “interest on at each effort level” has been corrected to “liking for each effort level” (page 6, para. 2, line 15).

      Line 135: “press buttons” has been updated to “rapidly press a button” (the caption of Figure 1).

      Line 142: “motivated” has been revised to “motivating” (page 7).

      Line 219: should low be high? Yes, we have corrected this (the caption of Figure 4).

      Lines 265–266: The missing word “with” has been inserted (page 15, para. 1, line 2).

      Line 275: “confirmed by following” has been revised as “corroborated by a parabolic …” (page 15, para. 1, line 15).

      Line 292: an action can be effortful, a feeling cannot. We have changed the word “effortful” to “effort” (page 18, para. 2, line 3).

      Line 315: “when it comes into” has been revised to “when it came to” (page 19, para. 1, line 10).

      Lines 330–331: These two expressions have been revised to “our data establish …” and “the after-effect of prosocial effort” (page 20, para. 1, lines 2–3).

      Line 387: “interest on at each effort level” has been corrected to “interest at each effort level” (page 23, para. 2, line 5).

      Line 405: should quickly be often? We agree that “quickly” might imply latency or speed of a single press, whereas the task required maximizing the frequency of presses within the time window. To capture this meaning accurately, we have revised the phrase to “pressed a button as rapidly as possible” (implying repetition rate) in the revised manuscript (page 24, para. 2, lines 3–4).

    1. eLife Assessment

      This fundamental study substantially advances our understanding of sibling chimerism in marmosets by demonstrating that chimerism is limited to hematopoietic cells. The evidence supporting these findings is compelling, demonstrated through comprehensive analyses, including single-cell RNA-seq data from multiple individuals and tissues. A few minor concerns were successfully addressed in a revision. The work will be of broad interest to many fields of biology.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Del Rosario et al characterized the extent and cell types of sibling chimerism in marmosets. To do so, they took advantage of the thousands of SNPs that are transcribed in single-nucleus RNA-seq (snRNA-seq) data to identify the sibling genotype of origin for all sequenced cells across 4 tissues (blood, liver, kidney, and brain) from many marmosets. They found that chimerism is prevalent and widespread across tissues in marmosets, which has previously been shown. However, their snRNA-seq approach allowed them to identify precisely which cells were of sibling origin, and which were not. In doing so they definitively show that sibling chimerism across tissues is limited to cells of myeloid and lymphoid lineages. The authors then focus on a large sample of microglia sequenced across many brain regions to quantify: (1) variation in chimerism across brain regions in the same individual, and (2) the relative importance of genetic vs. environmental context on microglia function/identity. (1) Much like across different tissues in the same individual, they found that the proportion of chimeric microglia varies across brain regions collected from the same individuals (as well as differing from the proportion of sibling cells found in blood of the same animals), suggesting that cells from different genetic backgrounds may differ in their recruitment and/or proliferation across regions and local tissue contexts, or that this may be linked to stochastic bottleneck effects during brain development. (2) Their (admittedly smaller sample size) analyses of host-sibling gene expression showed that the local environment dominates genotype. All told, this thoughtful and thorough manuscript accomplishes two important goals. First, it all but closes a previously open question on the extent and cell origins of sibling chimerism. Second, it sets the stage for using this unique model system to examine, in a natural context, how genetic variation in microglia may impact brain development, function, and disease.

      The conclusions of this paper are well supported by the data, and the authors exert appropriate care when extrapolating their results that come from smaller samples. However, there are a few concerns that should be addressed.

      The "modest correlation" mentioned in lines 170-172 does not take into account the uncertainty in estimates of each chimeric cell proportion (although the plot shows those estimates nicely). This is particularly important for the macrophages, which are far less abundant. Perhaps a more appropriate way to model this would be in a binomial framework (with a random effect for individual of origin). Here, you could model sibling identity of each macrophage as a function of the proportion of sibling-origin microglia and then directly estimate the percent variance explained.

      A similar (albeit more complicated because of the number of regions being compared) approach could be applied to more rigorously quantify the variation in chimerism across brain regions (L198-215; Fig 4). This would also help to answer the question of whether specific brain regions are more "amenable" to microglia chimerism than others.

      While the sample size is small, it would be exciting to see if any microglia eQTL are driven by sibling chimerism across the marmosets.

      L290-292: The authors should propose ways in which they could test the two different explanations proposed in this paragraph. For instance, a simulation-based modeling approach could potentially differential more stochastic bottleneck effects from recruitment-like effects.

      While intriguing, the gene expression comparison (Fig 5) is extremely underpowered. It would be helpful to clarify this and note the statistical thresholds used for identifying DEGs (the black points in the figure).

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have thoroughly addressed all my suggestions.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript reports a novel and quite important study of chimerism among common marmosets. As the authors discuss, it has been known for years that marmosets display chimerism across a number of tissues. However, as the authors also recognize, the scope and details of this chimerism have been controversial. Some prior publications have suggested that the chimerism only involves cells derived from hematopoietic stem cells, while other publications have suggested more cell types can also be chimeric, including a wide range of cell types present in multiple organs. The present authors address this question and several other important issues by using snRNA-seq to track the expression of host and sibling-derived mRNAs across multiple tissues and cell types. The results are clear and provide convincing evidence that for the various organs analyzed, all chimeric cells are derived from hematopoietic cell lineages.

      This work will have impact on studies using marmosets to investigate various biological questions, but will have biggest impact on neuroscience and studies of cellular function within the brain. The demonstration that microglia and macrophages from different siblings from a single pregnancy, with different genomes expressing different transcriptomes, are commonly present within specific brain structures of a single individual opens a number of new opportunities to study microglia and macrophage function as well as interations between microglia, macrophages and other cell types.

      Strengths:

      The paper has a number of important strengths. This analysis employs the first unambiguous approach providing a clear answer to the question of whether sibling-derived chimeric cells arise only from hematopoietic lineages or from a wider array of embryonic sources. That is a long-standing open question and these snRNA-seq data seem to provide a clear answer, at least for brain and liver and kidney. In addition, the present authors investigate quantitative variation in chimeric cell proportions across several dimensions, comparing the proportion of chimeric cells across individual marmosets, across organs within an individual and across brain regions within an individual. All these are significant questions, and the answers have important implications for multiple research areas. Marmosets are increasingly being used for a range of neuroscience studies, and a better understanding of the process that leads to chimerism of microglia and macrophages in the marmoset brain is a valuable and timely contribution. But this work also has implications for other lines of study such as defining embryological and development processes and the potential to track specific cell populations within genetically engineered marmosets. Third, the snRNA-seq data will be made available through Brain Initiative NeMO portal and the software used to quantify host vs. sibling cell proportions in different biosamples will be available through Github.

      Comments on revisions:

      Several minor weaknesses have been addressed by the authors in a revision of the original manuscript. Each of my concerns and perceived weaknesses regarding the initial submission have been satisfactorily addressed in the revision.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Del Rosario et al characterized the extent and cell types of sibling chimerism in marmosets. To do so, they took advantage of the thousands of SNPs that are transcribed in single-nucleus RNA-seq (snRNA-seq) data to identify the sibling genotype of origin for all sequenced cells across 4 tissues (blood, liver, kidney, and brain) from many marmosets. They found that chimerism is prevalent and widespread across tissues in marmosets, which has previously been shown. However, their snRNA-seq approach allowed them to identify precisely which cells were of sibling origin, and which were not. In doing so they definitively show that sibling chimerism across tissues is limited to cells of myeloid and lymphoid lineages. The authors then focus on a large sample of microglia sequenced across many brain regions to quantify: (1) variation in chimerism across brain regions in the same individual, and (2) the relative importance of genetic vs. environmental context on microglia function/identity.

      (1) Much like across different tissues in the same individual, they found that the proportion of chimeric microglia varies across brain regions collected from the same individuals (as well as differing from the proportion of sibling cells found in the blood of the same animals), suggesting that cells from different genetic backgrounds may differ in their recruitment and/or proliferation across regions and local tissue contexts, or that this may be linked to stochastic bottleneck effects during brain development.

      (2) Their (admittedly smaller sample size) analyses of host-sibling gene expression showed that the local environment dominates genotype.

      All told, this thoughtful and thorough manuscript accomplishes two important goals. First, it all but closes a previously open question on the extent and cell origins of sibling chimerism. Second, it sets the stage for using this unique model system to examine, in a natural context, how genetic variation in microglia may impact brain development, function, and disease.

      The conclusions of this paper are well supported by the data, and the authors exert appropriate care when extrapolating their results that come from smaller samples. However, there are a few concerns that should be addressed.

      The "modest correlation" mentioned in lines 170-172 does not take into account the uncertainty in estimates of each chimeric cell proportion (although the plot shows those estimates nicely). This is particularly important for the macrophages, which are far less abundant. Perhaps a more appropriate way to model this would be in a binomial framework (with a random effect for individuals of origin). Here, you could model the sibling identity of each macrophage as a function of the proportion of sibling-origin microglia and then directly estimate the percent variance explained.

      We appreciate this good suggestion. We performed an analysis along these lines, and found that it supported the conclusion of a lack of strong relationship between microglial and macrophage chimerism. In particular (and as we now have added to the Methods):

      “To perform an analysis of Fig. 2D that takes into account the uncertainty in the estimate of the chimeric cell proportion, we performed a binomial generalized linear mixed-effects model analysis in R using the command glmer( y~(1|indiv) + chimerism_micro, family=binomial), where y is a vector (of length 1,333) containing the genomic identity of each macrophage (either host or twin), 1|indiv models a random effect for the identity of each animal, and chimerism_micro is the microglia chimerism of the animal’s brain. The fixed effects probability of chimerism_micro was 0.795, indicating that microglial chimerism fraction was not statistically significant as a predictor for macrophage chimerism fraction. The estimate for the intercept was -0.8115 and the estimate for chimerism_micro was 0.3106, which indicates that the probability of a cell is a macrophage given the microglia chimerism fraction was only 0.57 (plogis(-0.8115+0.3106)).”

      We have added the following in the main text:

      “We investigated further by performing a statistical test that takes into account the uncertainty in the estimates of the chimeric cell proportion using a binomial framework (Methods); in this analysis, microglia chimerism fraction was not a statistically significant predictor of macrophage chimerism fraction (Methods). This suggests that in addition to the cell’s genome, other factors such as local host environment play a role in differential recruitment, proliferation or survival of the sibling cells. (We note that macrophages often transit the fluid-filled perivascular space, with a substantially different migration history and arrival dynamics than microglia.)”

      Given this new analysis, and our original observation that the Pearson correlation was only 0.31, we believe that other factors in addition to the cell’s genome play a role in differential recruitment or survival of sibling cells.

      A similar (albeit more complicated because of the number of regions being compared) approach could be applied to more rigorously quantify the variation in chimerism across brain regions (L198-215; Figure 4). This would also help to answer the question of whether specific brain regions are more "amenable" to microglia chimerism than others.

      We performed the analysis along these lines and added the following in the Methods section:

      “We used the same framework to further analyze Fig. 4. We included brain region as a covariate in the binomial framework: glmer( y~(1|indiv) + brain_reg + assay, family=binomial), where, y is a vector (of length 48,439) containing the genomic identity of each microglia, and assay is either “Drop-seq” or “10X”. The brain regions assayed in Fig. 4 are the cortex, hippocampus, hypothalamus, striatum, thalamus, and basal forebrain. All these brain regions were statistically significant predictors for microglia chimerism fraction (all P-values<2x10<sup>-16</sup>), supporting the conclusion that chimerism varies across brain regions. We also re-analyzed Supplementary Fig. 4 (Fig. 4B in original manuscript) using the same framework and found that 18 out of 27 brain substructures were statistically significant predictors for microglia chimerism fraction.”

      We have added the following sentences in the main text:

      “We used the binomial generalized linear mixed-model framework and found that all brain regions were statistically significant predictors for microglia chimerism fraction, supporting the conclusion that chimerism varies across brain regions (Methods).

      Analysis of finer brain substructures showed a similar result (Supplementary Fig. 4; the binomial generalized linear mixed-model framework determined that 18 out of 27 brain substructures were statistically significant as predictors for microglia chimerism fraction, Methods).”

      While the sample size is small, it would be exciting to see if any microglia eQTL are driven by sibling chimerism across the marmosets.

      We like this idea, but our study is underpowered for eQTL analysis since we only have 14 data points in the correlation analysis (eight cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from a single sibling, plus three cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from two siblings, collectively allowing 8 + (2*3)=14 pairwise analyses).

      L290-292: The authors should propose ways in which they could test the two different explanations proposed in this paragraph. For instance, a simulation-based modeling approach could potentially differentiate more stochastic bottleneck effects from recruitment-like effects.

      While intriguing, the gene expression comparison (Figure 5) is extremely underpowered. It would be helpful to clarify this and note the statistical thresholds used for identifying DEGs (the black points in the figure).

      We agree; to help clarify this for readers, we added the following sentence at the end of the paragraph discussing Fig. 5A-C.

      “In all eleven individual marmosets, analysis identified genes whose differential expression distinguished microglia with the two sibling genomes (hundreds of genes in total), documenting a substantial effect of sibling genetic differences on microglial gene expression. However, we did not find any gene whose expression level recurrently distinguished “host” microglia (microglia with the same genome as neural cell types) from “guest” microglia (microglia with the sibling genome), aside from the XIST gene (a proxy for sibling sex differences, which were of course common) (Supplementary Fig. 5, Fig. 5A-C). In other words, although there were always gene-expression differences between sibling microglia, none of them consistently distinguished between host and guest microglia, suggesting that they were instead due to sibling genetic differences. We note that both analyses are power-limited, as the number of microglia in most animals, especially guest microglia, were modest (Supplementary Fig. 5); thus, we cannot rule out the possibility that there may be one or more genes whose expression levels reflect developmental histories (host vs. guest origin), just as there are likely far more genes (than the hundreds we identified) that can have sibling expression differences due e.g. to genetic differences between siblings. We sought to increase power (beyond single-gene analysis) by using latent factor analysis (Ling et al., 2024) to identify and quantify the expression of microglial gene-expression programs; however, even this analysis did not find any gene expression programs that exhibited consistent host-twin differences in expression levels (Methods).”

      And in the caption of Fig. 5A-C, we have included the statistical threshold for identifying DEGs:

      “In (A) to (C), each point represents a gene; its location on the plot represents the level of expression of that gene among microglia with two different genomes in the same animal. x- and y-axes: normalized gene expression levels (number of transcripts per 100,000 transcripts). FC: fold-change of gene expression, female/male for XIST. Fold-change and P-values were calculated using the binomTest method from the edgeR package (Robinson et al., 2010). Differentially expressed genes (black dots) were defined as: FDR Q-value<0.05 and fold-change>1.5 (in either direction) and the gene must be expressed in at least 10% of at least one of the two sets of microglia being compared.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript reports a novel and quite important study of chimerism among common marmosets. As the authors discuss, it has been known for years that marmosets display chimerism across a number of tissues. However, as the authors also recognize, the scope and details of this chimerism have been controversial. Some prior publications have suggested that the chimerism only involves cells derived from hematopoietic stem cells, while other publications have suggested more cell types can also be chimeric, including a wide range of cell types present in multiple organs. The present authors address this question and several other important issues by using snRNA-seq to track the expression of host and sibling-derived mRNAs across multiple tissues and cell types. The results are clear and provide strong evidence that all chimeric cells are derived from hematopoietic cell lineages.

      This work will have an impact on studies using marmosets to investigate various biological questions but will have the biggest impact on neuroscience and studies of cellular function within the brain. The demonstration that microglia and macrophages from different siblings from a single pregnancy, with different genomes expressing different transcriptomes, are commonly present within specific brain structures of a single individual opens a number of new opportunities to study microglia and macrophage function as well as interactions between microglia, macrophages, and other cell types.

      Strengths:

      The paper has a number of important strengths. This analysis employs the first unambiguous approach providing a clear answer to the question of whether sibling-derived chimeric cells arise only from hematopoietic lineages or from a wider array of embryonic sources. That is a long-standing open question and these snRNA-seq data seem to provide a clear answer, at least for the brain, liver, and kidney. In addition, the present authors investigate quantitative variation in chimeric cell proportions across several dimensions, comparing the proportion of chimeric cells across individual marmosets, across organs within an individual, and across brain regions within an individual. All these are significant questions, and the answers have important implications for multiple research areas. Marmosets are increasingly being used for a range of neuroscience studies, and a better understanding of the process that leads to the chimerism of microglia and macrophages in the marmoset brain is a valuable and timely contribution. But this work also has implications for other lines of study. Third, the snRNA-seq data will be made available through the Brain Initiative NeMO portal and the software used to quantify host vs. sibling cell proportions in different biosamples will be available through GitHub.

      Weaknesses:

      I find no major weaknesses, but several minor ones. First, the main text of the manuscript provides no information about the specific animals used in this study, other than sex. Some basic information about the sources of animals and their ages at the time of study would be useful within the main paper, even though more information will be available in the supplementary material.

      We moved the table containing animal information (age at time of study, sex, source, tissues analyzed) from Supplementary Table 1 into the main text as Table 1. We also added the following sentences starting on line 140:

      “Brain snRNA-seq was performed on 11 animals (6 adults, 3 neonates and 1 six months old; Table 1). All were unrelated except for CJ006 and CJ007 which are birth siblings, and CJ025 and CJ026 which are (non-birth) siblings. All animals come from the three main marmoset colonies that comprise the animals in our facilities: New England Primate Research Center (NEPRC), CLEA Japan, and from a non-clinical contract research organization in Massachusetts. All adult marmosets had no known previous disease and were selected as part of a larger project to create a single cell atlas of the marmoset brain. The three neonates had died shortly after birth due to unknown reasons and were subsequently selected for snRNA-seq analysis.”

      Second, it is not clear why only 14 pairs of animals were used for estimating the correlation of chimerism levels in microglia and macrophages. Is this lower than the total number of pairwise comparisons possible in order to avoid using non-independent samples? Some explanation would be helpful.

      Only birth siblings (twins and triplets) can be meaningfully included in this analysis. The 14 pairs of animals we used to estimate the correlation of chimerism levels in microglia and macrophages included all pairs that we could use for this analysis: eight cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from a single sibling, plus three cases in which an animal’s brain hosted microglia derived from two siblings, collectively allowing 8 + (2*3)=14 pairwise analyses.

      Finally, I think more analysis of the consistency and variability of gene expression in microglia across different regions of the brain would be valuable. Are there genetic pathways expressed similarly in host and sibling microglia, regardless of region of the brain? Are there pathways that are consistently expressed differently in host vs sibling microglia regardless of brain region?

      For brain-region differences in microglial gene expression, we are under-powered and would only be scratching the surface of a question (interesting but beyond the focus and scope of this paper) that needs deeper experimental sampling.

      For the questions about sibling-sibling differences (regardless of which sibling is host) and recurring host-sibling differences, we can do a stronger analysis, because these analyses have similar power to each other. We describe this analysis in the revised manuscript as follows:

      “In all eleven individual marmosets, analysis identified genes whose differential expression distinguished microglia with the two sibling genomes (hundreds of genes in total), documenting a substantial effect of sibling genetic differences on microglial gene expression. However, we did not find any gene whose expression level recurrently distinguished “host” microglia (microglia with the same genome as neural cell types) from “guest” microglia (microglia with the sibling genome), aside from the XIST gene (a proxy for sibling sex differences, which were of course common) (Supplementary Fig. 5, Fig. 5A-C). In other words, although there were always gene-expression differences between sibling microglia, none of them consistently distinguished between host and guest microglia, suggesting that they were instead due to sibling genetic differences. We note that both analyses are power-limited, as the number of microglia in most animals, especially guest microglia, were modest (Supplementary Fig. 5); thus, we cannot rule out the possibility that there may be one or more genes whose expression levels reflect developmental histories (host vs. guest origin), just as there are likely far more genes (than the hundreds we identified) that can have sibling expression differences due e.g. to genetic differences between siblings.”

      We also, as suggested, tried to get beyond single-gene analyses to expression of programs/pathways, by performing latent factor analysis on the single-cell gene expression measurements. 

      “Following the method described in (Ling et al., 2024), we performed latent factor analysis using the probabilistic estimation of expression residuals (PEER, Stegle et al., 2010) on the gene-by-donor matrix expression of microglia. We started by creating a gene-by-cell matrix of microglia gene expression from all animals, and we normalized the matrix using SCT transform version 2 (Choudhary and Satija, 2022) with 3000 variable features. We obtained the Pearson residuals from SCT normalization and summed up the residuals across cells with the same genome to obtain a gene-by-donor matrix of expression measurements of microglia. We used this matrix as input to PEER and ran the tool with a provided number of factors from 9 to 12. For each gene-expression latent factor, to evaluate whether host/sibling identity had a consistent effect on expression levels, we performed a linear regression with host/sibling identity using glm(peer_factor_k ~ host_or_twin). For all factors, the P-values for the effect of host_or_twin were all insignificant (greater than 0.1), indicating that no PEER factor associated with host-vs-twin identity. Thus, our results found no large-scale gene expression program that was consistently expressed differently between hosts and twins.”

      We have added the text above to the Methods section, and we added the following at the end of the section on Gene-expression comparisons of host- to sibling-derived microglia (lines 264-267):

      “We sought to increase power (beyond single-gene analysis) by using latent factor analysis (Ling et al., 2024) to identify and quantify the expression of microglial gene-expression programs; however, even this analysis did not find any gene expression programs that exhibited consistent host-twin differences in expression levels (Methods).”

      Gene-expression pathways/factors did (within some animals) did show host-twin differences in expression levels, but without a consistent host-twin direction of effect that was shared across the many host-twin comparisons. In particular, we used the PEER analysis that we have performed above and calculated the host-sibling expression level difference for each latent factor. Many factors differed in expression in individual cases, though none did so in all cases nor in a consistent-sign manner:

      Author response image 1.

      Difference between host and sibling expression of gene-expression latent factors for each of the 12 factors computed (using PEER) from the single-cell dataset. For a given factor, the factor expression value of the sibling-genome cells is subtracted from that of the host-genome cells and the difference is divided by the maximum of the absolute value of all elements in that factor.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In the introduction (line 62), the authors mention that chimerism might have shaped behavior in marmosets (and perhaps been selected for). It would be helpful to see this revisited in the discussion. Is it possible that additional genetic variation in immune cells (resident and circulating) provides adaptive benefits and/or disease resistance? In the case of microglia, could the proportion of sibling cells be related (either positively or negatively) to local/regional pathology?

      We liked this suggestion and have added the following in the Discussion:

      “Chimerism could also enable interesting future analyses of whether there are adaptive benefits of chimerism in marmoset immune cells, among whom chimerism could in principle allow presentation of a wider variety of antigens for adaptive immunity. In a recent outbreak of yellow fever in Brazil in 2016-2018, marmosets were found to be less susceptible than other primates that lack immune system chimerism, including the howler monkeys (Alouatta), robust capuchins (Sapajus), and titi monkeys (Callicebus) (de Azebedo Fernandes, et al., 2021). In studying future outbreaks in marmosets, one could use single-cell RNA-seq and the methods described here to study how genetically distinct immune cells (in the same animal) have differentially migrated to affected tissues and/or assumed "activated" immune cell states. Recent innovations in spatial transcriptomics with sequencing readouts (that detect SNP alleles) may also make it possible to identify any differential recruitment of genetically distinct immune cells to focal infection sites.”

      Minor comments:

      L300 delete "temporal.”

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      L305: "more-restricted" should not be hyphenated.

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      L309: "from the non-cell" - delete "the.”

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      L367: Louvain, not Louvaine.

      We have revised the text accordingly.

      Figure 2B can be removed - it does not add much information and takes up a lot of space.

      We have moved Figure 2B to panel J Supplementary Fig. 1 (it is now displayed together with all other animals).

      The same can be said for Figure 4B, which is too tiny. There might be more effective ways to show this variation across animals.

      We have moved Figure 4B to Supplementary Fig. 4 and we have increased the font sizes to make the text in the figures more readable.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I would suggest providing some basic information about the sources of study animals within the main text. At a minimum, it would be useful to state which colonies are represented in the data, and if there is anything significant about the individual animal histories (e.g. prior exposure to surgical intervention or infectious disease). I believe this basic information should be in the main text, despite the inclusion of a broader range of information in the supplements.

      We appreciate this suggestion and revised lines 143 to 149 of the main text as follows:

      “All animals come from the three main marmoset colonies that comprise the animals in our facilities: New England Primate Research Center (NEPRC), CLEA Japan, and from a non-clinical contract research organization. All adult marmosets had no known previous disease and were selected as part of a larger project to create a single-cell atlas of the marmoset brain (Krienen et al., 2020; Krienen et al., 2023). The three neonates died shortly after birth due to unknown reasons and were subsequently selected for snRNA-seq analysis.”

      I would include the species name (Callithrix jacchus) in line 48.

      “On lines 47-48, we now indicate the name of the genus: “Chimerism is common, however, in the Callitrichidae family that consists of the marmosets (Callithrix) and their close relatives the tamarins (Saguinus)...”

      Then on line 65, we now indicate the species name: “Here, we analyze chimerism in the common marmoset (Callithrix jacchus) brain, liver, kidney and blood,...”

      The word "organisms" in line 59 should be "organs.”

      We have modified the text accordingly.

      Lines 100-101: I would suggest this would be clearer to readers if it read: "The relative likelihoods of the original source of each cell could be strongly...".

      We have modified the text accordingly.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This well-designed study offers important insights into the development of infants' responses to music based on the exploration of EEG neural auditory responses and video-based movement analysis. The compelling results revealed that evoked responses emerge between 3 and 12 months of age, but no age group demonstrated evidence of coordinated movements to music. This study will be of significant interest to developmental psychologists and neuroscientists, as well as researchers interested in music processing and in the translation of perception into action.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aims to investigate the development of infants' responses to music by examining neural activity via EEG and spontaneous body kinematics using video-based analysis. The authors also explore the role of musical pitch in eliciting neural and motor responses, comparing infants at 3, 6, and 12 months of age.

      Strengths:

      A key strength of the study lies in its analysis of body kinematics and modeling of stimulus-motor coupling, demonstrating how the amplitude envelope of music predicts infant movement, and how higher musical pitch may enhance auditory-motor synchronization.

      EEG data provide evidence for enhanced neural responses to music compared to shuffled auditory sequences. These findings ecourage further investigation of the proposed developmental trajectory of neural responses to music and their link to musical behavior in infants.

      Comments on revisions:

      I thank the authors for the considerable effort devoted to revising the manuscript and addressing the raised questions and comments. I particularly appreciate the additional analyses and the extended arguments included in the discussion. I believe that this paper represents a valuable contribution to the literature on music development.

      One remaining comment concerns the evoked response observed in the shuffled condition, which I still find intriguing. Considering that the auditory events in the shuffled condition display a clear rise time, particularly for those events that were selected based on being preceded and followed by longer periods of silence, one would expect to observe an evoked response emerging from baseline. However, this pattern is not evident in the presented curves. The authors may further examine and discuss the shape and characteristics of these response patterns.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Infants' auditory brain responses reveal processing of music (clearly different from shuffled music patterns) from the age of 3 months; however, they do not show related increase in spontaneous movement activity to music until the age of 12 months.

      Strengths:

      This is a nice paper, well designed, with sophisticated analyses and presenting clear results filling an important gap about early infant sensitivity, detection, and differentiation of musical sounds. The addition of EEG recordings (specifically ERPs) in response to music presentations at 3 different infant ages in the first postnatal year is important, and the manipulation of the music stimuli into shuffled, high and low pitch to capture differences in brain response processing and spontaneous movements is interesting. Further, the movement analysis based on Quantity of Movements (QoM) and movement subdivision into 10 distinct Principal Movements (PMs) is novel and creative.

      Overall, results show that ERPs responses to music occurs earlier than QoM in early development, and that even at 12 months, motor responses to music remain coarse and not rhythmically aligned with the music tempo. This work increases our fundamental understanding of infants' early music perception in relation to auditory processing and motor response.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have addressed my questions in their revision. I have no other questions. Thanks again for the opportunity to read and evaluate this interesting work.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary

      This study provides a detailed investigation of neural auditory responses and spontaneous movements in infants listening to music. Analyses of EEG data (event-related potentials and steady-state responses) first highlighted that infants at 3, 6 and 12 months of age and adults showed enhanced auditory responses to music than shuffled music. 6-month-olds also exhibited enhanced P1 response to high-pitch vs low-pitch stimuli, but not the other groups. Besides, whole body spontaneous movements of infants were decomposed into 10 principal components. Kinematic analyses revealed that the quantity of movement was higher in response to music than shuffled music only at 12 months of age. Although Granger causality analysis suggested that infants' movement was related to the music intensity changes, particularly in the high-pitch condition, infants did not exhibit phase-locked movement responses to musical events, and the low movement periodicity was not coordinated with music.

      Strengths

      This study investigates an important topic on the development of music perception and translation to action and danse. It targets a crucial developmental period that is difficult to explore. It evaluates two modalities by measuring neural auditory responses and kinematics, while cross-modal development is rarely evaluated. Overall, the study fills a clear gap in the literature.

      Besides, the study uses state-of-the-art analyses. Detailed investigations were performed, as well as exploratory analyses in supplementary information. The discussion is rich in neurodevelopmental interpretations and comparisons with the literature. All steps are clearly detailed. The manuscript is very clear, well-written and pleasant to read. Figures are well-designed and informative. The authors' responses to previous reviews are also detailed and informative.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors answered all my questions.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aims to investigate the development of infants' responses to music by examining neural activity via EEG and spontaneous body kinematics using video-based analysis. The authors also explore the role of musical pitch in eliciting neural and motor responses, comparing infants at 3, 6, and 12 months of age.

      Strengths:

      A key strength of the study lies in its analysis of body kinematics and modeling of stimulus-motor coupling, demonstrating how the amplitude envelope of music predicts infant movement, and how higher musical pitch may enhance auditory-motor synchronization.

      Weaknesses:

      The neural data analysis is currently limited to auditory evoked potentials aligned with beat timing. A more comprehensive approach is needed to robustly support the proposed developmental trajectory of neural responses to music.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and would like to clarify that there has been a misunderstanding: our EEG analyses were time-locked to actual tone onsets, not to expected beat positions. For both music and shuffled conditions, ERPs were computed by epoching around all real auditory events present in each stimulus. This approach ensures that the AEPs reflect neural responses to actual auditory events rather than to predicted or expected events that do not exist in the shuffled stimuli. We have now clarified this further in the revised manuscript (p. 9).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Infants' auditory brain responses reveal processing of music (clearly different from shuffled music patterns) from the age of 3 months; however, they do not show a related increase in spontaneous movement activity to music until the age of 12 months.

      Strengths:

      This is a nice paper, well designed, with sophisticated analyses and presenting clear results that make a lot of sense to this reviewer. The additions of EEG recordings in response to music presentations at 3 different infant ages are interesting, and the manipulation of the music stimuli into shuffled, high, and low pitch to capture differences in brain response and spontaneous movements is good. I really enjoyed reading this work and the well-written manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      I only have two comments. The first is a change to the title. Maybe the title should refer to the first "postnatal" year, rather than the first year of life. There are controversies about when life really starts; it could be in the womb, so using postnatal to refer to the period after birth resolves that debate.

      Thank you very much for your thoughtful suggestion regarding the title. To ensure clarity and to unambiguously indicate that our study focuses on the period after birth, we agree that specifying "first postnatal year” in the title is appropriate. We have revised the title accordingly.

      The other comment relates to the 10 Principal Movements (PMs) identified. I was wondering about the rationale for identifying these different PMs and to what extent many PMs entered in the analyses may hinder more general pattern differences. Infants' spontaneous movements are very variable and poorly differentiated in early development. Maybe, instead of starting with 10 distinct PMs, a first analysis could be run using the combined Quantity of Movements (QoM) without PM distinctions to capture an overall motor response to music. Maybe only 2 PMs could be entered in the analysis, for the arms and for the legs, regardless of the patterns generated. Maybe the authors have done such an analysis already, but describing an overall motor response, before going into specific patterns of motor activation, could be useful to describe the level of motor response. Again, infants provide extremely variable patterns of response, and such variability may potentially hinder an overall effect if the QoM were treated as a cumulated measure rather than one with differentiated patterns.

      We agree that due to the high variability and limited differentiation of infant motor responses at this age, it is important to consider an overall measure of movement in addition to specific PMs. To address exactly this, we had included an analysis in which we combined all 10 PMs into a single global QoM metric. This ‘All PMs’ measure reflects the overall motor response to the different auditory stimuli. For clarity, this result is presented in Figure 5, where we show the denoised global QoM signal and highlight the observed Condition × Age interaction (which averaged QoM for all PMs and is therefore equivalent to QoM without PM distinction). We now emphasize this analysis more clearly in the Results section (p. 16).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study provides a detailed investigation of neural auditory responses and spontaneous movements in infants listening to music. Analyses of EEG data (event-related potentials and steady-state responses) first highlighted that infants at 3, 6, and 12 months of age and adults showed enhanced auditory responses to music than shuffled music. 6-month-olds also exhibited enhanced P1 response to high-pitch vs low-pitch stimuli, but not the other groups. Besides, whole body spontaneous movements of infants were decomposed into 10 principal components. Kinematic analyses revealed that the quantity of movement was higher in response to music than shuffled music only at 12 months of age. Although Granger causality analysis suggested that infants' movement was related to the music intensity changes, particularly in the high-pitch condition, infants did not exhibit phase-locked movement responses to musical events, and the low movement periodicity was not coordinated with music.

      Strengths:

      This study investigates an important topic on the development of music perception and translation to action and dance. It targets a crucial developmental period that is difficult to explore. It evaluates two modalities by measuring neural auditory responses and kinematics, while cross-modal development is rarely evaluated. Overall, the study fills a clear gap in the literature.

      Besides, the study uses state-of-the-art analyses. All steps are clearly detailed. The manuscript is very clear, well-written, and pleasant to read. Figures are well-designed and informative.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Differences in neural responses to high-pitch vs low-pitch stimuli between 6-month-olds and other infants are difficult to interpret.

      We agree with the reviewer that the differences in neural responses to high-pitch versus low-pitch stimuli between 6-month-olds and other infants are difficult to interpret. We have offered several possible explanations for these findings, including developmental changes in auditory plasticity, social interaction effects, maturation of the auditory system, and arousal or exposure differences. If the reviewer has additional perspectives or alternative explanations, we would be very pleased to incorporate them into the revised manuscript.

      (2) Making some links between the neural and movement responses that are described in this manuscript could be expected, given the study goal. Although kinematic analyses suggested that movement responses are not phase-locked to the music stimuli, analyses of Granger causality between motion velocity and neural responses could be relevant.

      We appreciate the suggestion that exploring links between neural and movement responses would be valuable, especially given the study's goals. We were initially cautious about interpreting potential Granger-causal relations between neural and motor activity, as temporal scale differences between the two measures can easily bias directionality estimates. Neural responses typically occur on the scale of milliseconds, whereas movement unfolds over seconds. As a result, an apparent directional relation might emerge simply due to these intrinsic timescale differences rather than reflecting genuine causal influence.

      Nevertheless, we agree that this relationship warrants further investigation and added the following analyses to the supplements (p. 9). Accordingly, we conducted additional exploratory analyses to examine whether ERP amplitudes correlated with movement measures. To this end, we computed correlations between neural and movement responses using participant-averaged data (not single trials). For neural measures, we extracted mean ERP amplitudes in the time window post-tone-onset encompassing the P1 component derived from cluster-based analyses. For movement measures, we used: (1) total movement quantity (mean velocity across the entire trial), and (2) Granger causality F-values reflecting music-to-movement coupling strength. These analyses included comparisons between music and shuffled music conditions, as well as between high- and low-pitch conditions. We therefore ran two linear mixed-effects models, with ERP amplitudes as response variables and either QoM or Granger causality F-values as fixed effects. Infants were modelled as random intercepts. Our results showed no significant correlations between ERP amplitudes and movement quantity, irrespective of conditions (p>.124), and neither when comparing music vs shuffled music (p>.111) nor when comparing high vs low pitch (p>.071) across all age groups. We also do not find significant correlations between ERP amplitudes and Granger causality F-values, irrespective of conditions (p>.164), and when comparing music vs shuffled music (p>.494) or high vs low pitch (p>.175) across all age groups. The absence of robust correlations suggests that neural sensitivity to musical structure (as indexed by ERPs) and motor responsiveness to music (as indexed by movement quantity or coupling strength) develop somewhat independently during the first year of life. This dissociation aligns with broader developmental theories proposing that perceptual sensitivity often precedes and enables later motor coordination, rather than developing together.

      (3) The study considers groups of infants at different ages, but infants within each group might be at different stages of motor development. Was this assessed behaviorally? Would it be possible to explore or take into account this possible inter-individual variability?

      We agree this is important. Infants in each age group were within a quite narrow age range (3 months: M=113.04 days, SD=5.68 days, Range=98-120 days, 6 months: M=195.88 days, SD=9.46 days, Range=182-211 days,12-13 months: M=380.44 days, SD=14.93 days, range=361-413 days), as detailed in the sample description on p. 37. Despite this, we asked parents to report on infants' major motor milestones, specifically their ability to sit and/or walk. At 6 months, 25% of infants were able to sit (N = 20), and at 12 months, 50% of infants were able to walk (N = 18). Given the relatively small group sizes for these milestones, we are concerned that conducting detailed analyses could yield unstable or misleading results that may not generalize beyond our sample. Therefore, we chose to focus on broader analyses that are more robust given our current dataset. We fully support your suggestion that future studies with larger samples and more comprehensive motor assessments will better clarify these developmental trajectories.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      While the analysis and findings on auditory-evoked spontaneous movement are highly interesting, the results from the neural data raise questions about the genuine role of music in the observed evoked and induced responses.

      General comments on the findings related to neural data

      (1) The main neural finding is a larger response in the Music condition compared to the Shuffled Music condition. To address their hypothesis, the authors computed the AEP to tones at the beat position and compared responses between the Music and Shuffled Music conditions, aligning the onset to the expected beat position. However, given that inter-onset intervals were permuted in the Shuffled condition, an AEP time-locked to the expected beat position is not meaningful, as no tone is expected at that time. Therefore, it is expected to have a relatively flat AEP in response to the shuffled condition. Furthermore, given the reduced regularity in the Shuffled condition, the observed difference in ASSR at the beat frequency is expected. Similar results could be obtained using an isochronous sequence of pure tones and a shuffled version of the same sequence. Therefore, these two analyses do not strongly support the conclusion of infants' enhanced neural responses to music.

      The authors could consider comparing AEPs by aligning onsets in the Shuffled condition to the actual tone positions, potentially focusing only on tones with sufficiently long preceding and following IOIs to avoid confounds from short intervals. The two conditions could then be compared with correction for the number of tones. Potential differences in this case could have suggested an impact beyond the auditory evoked responses.

      We agree that ASSR analyses at the beat frequency is not enough to evidence enhanced neural responses to music. However, we would like to clarify that for the AEP analyses, the EEG data were epoched to all actual tone onsets rather than the expected beat positions, therefore adding to the ASSR analysis. Thus, for the shuffled music condition, the EEG was aligned with the real tone onsets present in that sequence, not with hypothetical beat positions derived from a regular rhythm. This approach ensures that the AEPs reflect neural responses to actual auditory events rather than to predicted or expected events that do not exist in the shuffled stimuli.

      We further clarify this in the results section on p. 9

      “Figure 2 shows the average ERPs to the bassline notes in the auditory stimuli, with EEG data time-locked to actual tone onsets (see Methods for details).”

      Finally, following the reviewer’s suggestion, we carried out three control analyses: 1) including only epochs corresponding to bassline tones whose prior inter-onset interval (IOI) exceeded the median IOI duration, 2) including only epochs corresponding to bassline tones whose subsequent IOI exceeded the median IOI duration, and 3) including only epochs corresponding to both melody and bassline tones whose prior and subsequent IOI exceeded the median IOI duration. These analyses yielded event-related potentials in the shuffled music condition that were highly similar to those obtained when all epochs were included (see Figure S1). Therefore, the greater neural response to music compared with shuffled music likely reflects an effect of predictability in the musical condition or, more generally, infants’ disengagement with the shuffled stimuli.

      It would also be helpful to see whether the authors explored other approaches for evaluating neural responses across conditions, such as brain-stimulus synchronization, coherence measures, or temporal response functions (TRF), and whether these yielded comparable results.

      Thank you for this question. We have not explored these approaches, but we agree that alternative methods for evaluating neural responses, such as brain-stimulus synchronization, coherence measures, or temporal response functions (TRF), could offer complementary insights. Given the scope and focus of the present work, and the already extensive set of neural and behavioral measures reported, we chose to prioritize analyses most directly relevant to our initial research questions. Incorporating further methods might risk complicating the narrative and obscuring the key findings. We appreciate the value of these additional methods and consider them promising avenues for future investigations.

      (2) Another important finding concerns the difference in AEPs between the High Pitch and Low Pitch conditions in 6-month-old infants, a pattern not observed in the younger (3-month) or older (12-month and adult) groups. The authors interpret this as heightened sensitivity to high-pitch sounds, typical of infant-directed speech. However, the absence of this effect at 12 months raises questions. It would be helpful to consider whether this pattern may be influenced by data quality differences across age groups. Additionally, the authors could discuss this observation in relation to studies showing stronger neural tracking of rhythms in infants, particularly for low-frequency sounds (e.g., Lenc et al., Developmental Science, 2022).

      This is an interesting consideration that we investigated further. Regarding data quality differences, we considered different measures and now report these in the methods section (p. 30) and supplements (p. 1).

      “We conducted two analyses to compare the EEG data quality across age groups. First, we compared the number of trials that were included in the final analysis per age group. The trial number did not differ significantly across age groups (p > .361). Second, we calculated the SNR by dividing the EEG power at the frequency of interest (i.e., 2.25 Hz, matching the musical beat) by the background noise in surrounding bins (3rd to 5th bin, see ASSR methodology for further details; c.f., Christodoulou et al., 2018; Cirelli et al., 2014). This division yields a signal-to-noise ratio that can be averaged across conditions and compared across age groups to assess variations in signal quality (especially when focusing on the pitch conditions with the same beat frequency). Here, we find that all three age groups show considerable SNR above 1 (3m: M = 2.569, SD = 1.104; 6m: M = 2.743, SD = 1.001; 12m: M = 1.907, SD = 0.749), with no statistically significant differences (three t-tests, FDR-corrected, p > .134). Importantly, our key comparison of High vs. Low Pitch was performed within each age group, thus controlling for any overall differences in signal quality across groups. Together, these two analyses indicate that signal quality was comparable across age groups.”

      Overall, these control analyses seem to support the observed high-pitch sensitivity in the neural response of 6-month-olds, specifically, and in line with previous research investigating this age range (Trainor & Zacharias, 1998; Fernald & Kuhl, 1987). What is more is that there might be some particular changes towards the end of the first year that mark infants’ widening of their attention towards others (beyond their primary caregivers) and objects in their environment (Cooper et al., 1997; Newman & Hussain, 2006), as well as a decrease in exposure to face-to-face interactions with their primary caregivers (Jayaraman et al., 2015). Taken together, research shows that infants' preference for infant-directed speech decreases significantly between 4.5 and 9 months, coinciding with developmental changes in attentional systems and social interaction patterns. This might explain the absence of high-pitch sensitivity in 12-month-olds. However, further research is needed to determine if and in which contexts high-pitch sensitivity to music changes throughout infancy.

      We also edited the discussion in order to compare our results to those of Lenc et al., 2023, p. 23: “It should also be noted that our musical stimuli comprised polyphonic (two-voice) music, carrying sound frequencies falling within the typical range of infant-directed song (~200-400 Hz, Cirelli et al., 2020; Nguyen, Reisner, et al., 2023b; Trainor & Zacharias, 1998). As such, our results might specifically speak for infants’ ability to separate (and prioritize among) simultaneous communicative auditory streams (Marie & Trainor, 2013; Trainor, 2015). Indeed, other studies presenting one-voice pure tone sequences (single isochronous and isotonous tones) with high vs. low pitch - notably at frequencies outside our range (130 vs. 1237 Hz) - have reported stronger neural responses to relatively low frequencies (Lenc et al., 2023). Together, these contrasting observations suggest that pitch prioritization changes not only throughout development but also depends on the polyphonic complexity and spectral characteristics of the perceived stimuli. Further research might investigate this interesting issue further.”

      (3) It would also be helpful if the authors provided more detailed information on the stimuli, including both temporal/rhythmic and spectral content, for the original music, high-pitch and low-pitch variations, and shuffled versions.

      Absolutely. We agree that this is important to report. We have added a Table to the Results (Table 1) and a Table S1 with M, SD and range of the envelope to further describe the temporal and spectral features of the Stimuli.

      General comments on the findings related to body kinematics

      (4) Quantification of movement based on the PMs did not lead to any differences between the High Pitch and Low Pitch conditions. However, Granger causality showed high prediction strength for the High Pitch condition. In the discussion, the authors proposed that high-pitch music might have led to higher arousal. If this were the case, one might expect to observe increased movement in the High Pitch condition relative to the Low Pitch condition in the PM analyses. I propose that the authors revise the discussion to address the misalignment between different findings.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this important point and welcome the suggestion to clarify the relationship between movement quantification based on principle movements (PM) and the Granger causality results. We agree that the apparent discrepancy between these measures merits further clarification. We note that the discrepancy suggests that Granger causality may capture subtler temporal coordination between movements and the music, rather than gross movement magnitude. We have incorporated this reasoning into the revised discussion paragraph (page 23-24), which now reads as:

      “If increased arousal were to result in greater overall movement, we would expect higher movement levels in the high pitch condition; however, this was not observed. QoM analyses based on the PMs did not reveal significant differences between the high pitch and low pitch conditions. This discrepancy may arise because Granger causality captures subtler temporal coordination between movement and music rather than gross movement quantity. Thus, high-pitch music may modulate the timing and coordination of motor responses without necessarily increasing the overall amount of movement. In line with prior work (e.g., Bigand et al., 2024), this interpretation emphasizes that musical coordination often involves changes in coupling strength rather than movement quantity per se.”

      (5) The authors report a lack of periodicity and phase-locked movement in infants. Considering the developmental stage, I assume that spontaneous movements to music have emerged over short periods during each exposition period. Probably to further investigate movement periodicity, which has been previously suggested, the authors can first automatically extract periods of periodic movement and further evaluate the tempo/frequency and synchronization with the stimulus during these specific periods.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful suggestion. We conducted similar analyses prior to submission, using methods comparable to previous studies (Fujii et al., 2014). These analyses did not yield additional insights beyond those already presented in the manuscript, so we opted not to include them initially. For completeness, we briefly mention these results on p. 19:

      “Robustness analyses based on thresholding of variation in the time series to identify movement burst epochs (similar to Fujii et al., 2014) yielded consistent results. No significant movement-to-music synchronization was found across age groups (all ps > .563).“

      It is important to clarify that while movement periodicity in infants listening to music has been previously suggested, the evidence for actual synchronization to musical beats remains limited and has been frequently misinterpreted in the literature. The seminal study by Zentner and Eerola (2010) is often cited as evidence for infant rhythmic entrainment, but their findings actually demonstrated tempo flexibility rather than synchronization, i.e., infants moved faster when the music was faster. Similarly, Fujii et al. (2014) found that while individual infants showed some movement-to-music coordination, this occurred in only 2 out of 11 tested infants (18%), and the authors emphasized that "movement-to-music synchronization is rare in infants and observed at an individual level".

      (6) A last general comment is that the authors try to explain the findings of the current study, providing hypotheses, for instance, on the origin of differences in the neural response to high and low pitch only at 6 months. It would be helpful if the authors also consider the misalignment of results with previous findings.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and acknowledge the importance of placing our findings in the context of prior research on infant pitch perception, including some apparent inconsistencies such as those noted for Lenc et al. (2023), which we have addressed in our response to comment 2. We agree that results inevitably vary across studies due to differences in methods, stimuli, and participant samples—all factors that contribute to some variability in developmental trajectories observed in the literature.

      Importantly, our observation of a transient difference in neural responses to high versus low pitch emerging at 6 months aligns with existing evidence indicating significant neural reorganization occurring around this age (Carr et al., 2022) and continuing toward 12 months (Kuhl et al., 2014). This may reflect a sensitive developmental window during which infants show heightened sensitivity to prosodic features important for early social and communicative interactions. After this window, attentional and auditory processing priorities shift, which could explain the subsequent decline in pitch sensitivity.

      We emphasize that these interpretations are preliminary, and further systematic investigations—preferably longitudinal studies incorporating diverse pitch ranges and multimodal attentional and neural measures—are needed to delineate the developmental course of pitch sensitivity comprehensively.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Thank you for the opportunity to read this interesting work.

      Thank you for the constructive comments.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) I would suggest replacing "first year of life" with "first post-natal year".

      Thank you for the suggestion. In line with yours and Reviewer #2’s comments, we have revised the title to “first postnatal year”.

      (2) Precising the music paradigm and the stimuli nature/timing would be useful at the beginning of the Results section.

      We agree and have added two tables (Table 1 and Table S1 for continued information on the envelope) for further information about the paradigm and stimuli to the beginning of the results section (p.8).

      In addition, the stimuli are also shared on a repository: https://doi.org/10.48557/DCSCFO.

      (3) Since the infants moved during the experiment, EEG data might show movement artefacts. Was the approach used to correct these artefacts satisfactory, even in 12-month-olds who moved more?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s important question regarding artifact correction in infant EEG data, especially given increased movement in older infants. We recognize that movement-related artifacts are an inherent challenge in EEG recordings with infants, and complete elimination of such artifacts is technically difficult (if not impossible). However, several points support the robustness of our ERP findings despite spontaneous movement:

      First, we used a two‐stage pipeline to maximize artifact removal without bias: First, Artifact Subspace Reconstruction (ASR) repaired brief, high‐variance artifacts by reconstructing contaminated channels from clean data. Second, Independent Component Analysis (ICA, as implemented in ICLabel) decomposed the ASR‐cleaned EEG into independent components, allowing us to remove residual non‐neural artifacts (e.g., eye movements) based on their spatial and spectral features. Both ASR and ICA operate agnostically to condition or age group and automatically, without subjective decisions, ensuring unbiased cleaning and reliable ERP comparisons.

      As noted in the response to R1 Comment (2), we also compared the EEG data quality across age groups and conditions. The trial number did not differ significantly across age groups (p > .361). Second, we calculated the SNR by dividing the EEG power at the frequency of interest and found no statistically significant differences across age groups (three t-tests, FDR-corrected, p > .134). Together, these two analyses indicate that signal quality was comparable across age groups.

      Infant movements during the session were sporadic and, most importantly not time-locked to tone onsets (see Fig S2). Because artifact rejection (namely, Artifact Subspace Reconstruction and Independent Component Analysis) discarded only those epochs containing large, transient artifacts irrespective of condition, residual movement-related noise would not systematically inflate ERPs.

      (4) The timing of the P200 response peak could be specified in adults as for infants.

      The timing of the P200 in adults is mentioned on page 9: “[…] a second positivity peaking at 158 ms post-stimulus (so-called “P200”, here reaching an amplitude of 0.85 µV).” The timing of the infant P2 is specified on p 10 and 11: “The P2 ranged between 307 and 325 ms post-stimulus and peaked at 316 ms, reaching an average amplitude of 1.026 µV.”

      (5) In infants, the evocation of "peaking at 212ms" is not completely clear: does this timing correspond to the P1 peak at 3 months of age or to the time when the response to music was enhanced compared to shuffled music?

      Thank you for highlighting the need for greater clarity regarding the timing of the P1 peak and its relation to the observed enhancement. We have revised the text to explicitly state that 212 ms corresponds to the P1 peak in 3-month-old infants within the window where the response to music was significantly enhanced compared to shuffled music.

      p.9: “Importantly, and in line with the adults’ data, all infant groups exhibited enhanced P1 amplitudes in response to music compared to shuffled music. Cluster-based permutation (nPerm=1000) testing revealed that 3-month-old infants’ P1 amplitude was enhanced between 177 and 305 ms post-stimulus (cluster-t=1111.90, p=.002). Within this window, the P1 peaked at 212 ms and reached an amplitude of 1.8 µV.”

      (6) It might be useful to put the results of this study into perspective with other studies of infant motor development (e.g., Hinnekens et al, eLife 2023).

      Thank you for pointing out this study. We have integrated the Hinnekens et al. (2023) findings into our discussion of infant motor development toward dance-like behaviors. p.22 “Taking a broader perspective on infants’ motor development, our findings align with research on locomotion across the first 14 months of life, which shows that as the number of motor primitives increases, their intrinsic variability decreases (Hinnekens et al., 2023). Viewed together, these patterns point toward a gradual refinement of motor control: the human motor system first develops the capacity to control individual muscles, and gradually to integrate them into motor synergies that support complex, coordinated behaviours, such as locomotion, musical synchronization, and dance.”

      (7) Regarding the progressive maturation of the auditory/linguistic pathways during infancy, the authors might also refer to (Dubois et al, Cerebral Cortex 2016).

      Thank you for the suggestion. We added the study to the discussion on page 22: “This developmental trajectory aligns with neuroimaging evidence showing that while the ventral linguistic pathway (connecting temporal and frontal regions via the extreme capsule) is well-established at birth, the dorsal pathway—particularly the arcuate fasciculus connecting temporal regions to inferior frontal areas—continues maturing throughout the first postnatal months, with different maturational timelines for dorsal versus ventral connections (Dubois et al., 2016).“

    1. eLife Assessment

      This manuscript makes a valuable contribution to the concept of fragility of meta-analyses via the so-called 'ellipse of insignificance for meta-analyses' (EOIMETA). The strength of evidence is convincing, supported primarily by an example of the fragility of meta-analyses in the association between Vitamin D supplementation and cancer mortality, but the approach could be applied in other meta-analytic contexts. The significance of the work could be enhanced with a more thorough assessment of the impact of between-study heterogeneity, additional case studies, and improved contextualization of the proposed approach in relation to other methods.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript addresses an important methodological issue-the fragility of meta-analytic findings-by extending fragility concepts beyond trial-level analysis. The proposed EOIMETA framework provides a generalizable and analytically tractable approach that complements existing methods such as the traditional Fragility Index and Atal et al.'s algorithm. The findings are significant in showing that even large meta-analyses can be highly fragile, with results overturned by very small numbers of event recodings or additions. The evidence is clearly presented, supported by applications to vitamin D supplementation trials, and contributes meaningfully to ongoing debates about the robustness of meta-analytic evidence. Overall, the strength of evidence is moderate to strong.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript tackles a highly relevant methodological question on the robustness of meta-analytic evidence.<br /> (2) EOIMETA represents an innovative extension of fragility concepts from single trials to meta-analyses.<br /> (3) The applications are clearly presented and highlight the potential importance of fragility considerations for evidence synthesis.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary and strengths:

      In this manuscript, Grimes presents an extension of Ellipse of Insignificant (EOI) and Region of Attainable Redaction (ROAR) metrics to meta-analysis setting as metrics for fragility and robustness evaluation of meta-analysis. The author applies these metrics to three meta-analyses of Vitamin D and cancer mortality, finding substantial fragility in their conclusions. Overall, I think extension/adaption is a conceptually valuable addition to meta-analysis evaluation, and the manuscript is generally well-written.

      Specific comments:

      (1) The manuscript would benefit from a clearer explanation of in what sense EOIMETA is generalizable. The author mentions this several times, but without a clear explanation of what they mean here.

      (2) The authors mentioned the proposed tools assume low between-study heterogeneity. Could the author illustrate mathematically in the paper how the between-study heterogeneity would influence the proposed measures? Moreover, the between-study heterogeneity is high in Zhang et al's 2022 study. It would be a good place to comment on the influence of such high heterogeneity on the results, and specifying a practical heterogeneity cutoff would better guide future users.

      (3) I think clarifying the concepts of "small effect", "fragile result", and "unreliable result" would be helpful for preventing misinterpretation by future users. I am concerned that the audience may be confusing these concepts. A small effect may be related to a fragile meta-analysis result. A fragile meta-analysis doesn't necessarily mean wrong/untrustworthy results. A fragile but precise estimate can still reflect a true effect, but whether that size of true effect is clinically meaningful is another question. Clarifying the effect magnitude, fragility, and reliability in the discussion would be helpful.

      Comments on revisions:

      I am unable to find the author's responses to my previous round comments (Reviewer #3) in the revision package, though replies to the other reviewers are present. I will provide my updated feedback once these responses are available for review.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript addresses an important methodological issue - the fragility of meta-analytic findings - by extending fragility concepts beyond trial-level analysis. The proposed EOIMETA framework provides a generalizable and analytically tractable approach that complements existing methods such as the traditional Fragility Index and Atal et al.'s algorithm. The findings are significant in showing that even large meta-analyses can be highly fragile, with results overturned by very small numbers of event recodings or additions. The evidence is clearly presented, supported by applications to vitamin D supplementation trials, and contributes meaningfully to ongoing debates about the robustness of meta-analytic evidence. Overall, the strength of evidence is moderate to strong, though some clarifications would further enhance interpretability.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript tackles a highly relevant methodological question on the robustness of meta-analytic evidence.

      (2) EOIMETA represents an innovative extension of fragility concepts from single trials to meta-analyses.

      (3) The applications are clearly presented and highlight the potential importance of fragility considerations for evidence synthesis.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The rationale and mathematical details behind the proposed EOI and ROAR methods are insufficiently explained. Readers are asked to rely on external sources (Grimes, 2022; 2024b) without adequate exposition here. At a minimum, the definitions, intuition, and key formulas should be summarized in the manuscript to ensure comprehensibility.

      (2) EOIMETA is described as being applicable when heterogeneity is low, but guidance is missing on how to interpret results when heterogeneity is high (e.g., large I²). Clarification in the Results/Discussion is needed, and ideally, a simulation or illustrative example could be added.

      (3) The manuscript would benefit from side-by-side comparisons between the traditional FI at the trial level and EOIMETA at the meta-analytic level. This would contextualize the proposed approach and underscore the added value of EOIMETA.

      (4) Scope of FI: The statement that FI applies only to binary outcomes is inaccurate. While originally developed for dichotomous endpoints, extensions exist (e.g., Continuous Fragility Index, CFI). The manuscript should clarify that EOIMETA focuses on binary outcomes, but FI, as a concept, has been generalized.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study expands existing analytical tools originally developed for randomized controlled trials with dichotomous outcomes to assess the potential impact of missing data, adapting them for meta-analytical contexts. These tools evaluate how missing data may influence meta-analyses where p-value distributions cluster around significance thresholds, often leading to conflicting meta-analyses addressing the same research question. The approach quantifies the number of recodings (adding events to the experimental group and/or removing events from the control group) required for a meta-analysis to lose or gain statistical significance. The author developed an R package to perform fragility and redaction analyses and to compare these methods with a previously established approach by Atal et al. (2019), also integrated into the package. Overall, the study provides valuable insights by applying existing analytical tools from randomized controlled trials to meta-analytical contexts.

      Strengths:

      The author's results support his claims. Analyzing the fragility of a given meta-analysis could be a valuable approach for identifying early signs of fragility within a specific topic or body of evidence. If fragility is detected alongside results that hover around the significance threshold, adjusting the significance cutoff as a function of sample size should be considered before making any binary decision regarding statistical significance for that body of evidence. Although the primary goal of meta-analysis is effect estimation, conclusions often still rely on threshold-based interpretations, which is understandable. In some of the examples presented by Atal et al. (2019), the event recoding required to shift a meta-analysis from significant to non-significant (or vice versa) produced only minimal changes in the effect size estimation. Therefore, in bodies of evidence where meta-analyses are fragile or where results cluster near the null, it may be appropriate to adjust the cutoff. Conducting such analyses-identifying fragility early and adapting thresholds accordingly-could help flag fragile bodies of evidence and prevent future conflicting meta-analyses on the same question, thereby reducing research waste and improving reproducibility.

      Weaknesses:

      It would be valuable to include additional bodies of conflicting literature in which meta-analyses have demonstrated fragility. This would allow for a more thorough assessment of the consistency of these analytical tools, their differences, and whether this particular body of literature favored one methodology over another. The method proposed by Atal et al. was applied to numerous meta-analyses and demonstrated consistent performance. I believe there is room for improvement, as both the EOI and ROAR appear to be very promising tools for identifying fragility in meta-analytical contexts.

      I believe the manuscript should be improved in terms of reporting, with clearer statements of the study's and methods' limitations, and by incorporating additional bodies of evidence to strengthen its claims.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary and strengths:

      In this manuscript, Grimes presents an extension of the Ellipse of Insignificant (EOI) and Region of Attainable Redaction (ROAR) metrics to the meta-analysis setting as metrics for fragility and robustness evaluation of meta-analysis. The author applies these metrics to three meta-analyses of Vitamin D and cancer mortality, finding substantial fragility in their conclusions. Overall, I think extension/adaptation is a conceptually valuable addition to meta-analysis evaluation, and the manuscript is generally well-written.

      Specific comments:

      (1) The manuscript would benefit from a clearer explanation of in what sense EOIMETA is generalizable. The author mentions this several times, but without a clear explanation of what they mean here.

      (2) The authors mentioned the proposed tools assume low between-study heterogeneity. Could the author illustrate mathematically in the paper how the between-study heterogeneity would influence the proposed measures? Moreover, the between-study heterogeneity is high in Zhang et al's 2022 study. It would be a good place to comment on the influence of such high heterogeneity on the results, and specifying a practical heterogeneity cutoff would better guide future users.

      (3) I think clarifying the concepts of "small effect", "fragile result", and "unreliable result" would be helpful for preventing misinterpretation by future users. I am concerned that the audience may be confusing these concepts. A small effect may be related to a fragile meta-analysis result. A fragile meta-analysis doesn't necessarily mean wrong/untrustworthy results. A fragile but precise estimate can still reflect a true effect, but whether that size of true effect is clinically meaningful is another question. Clarifying the effect magnitude, fragility, and reliability in the discussion would be helpful.

      I am very appreciative of the insightful comments you all shared, and in light of them have made several clarifications and revisions. Thank you again, I am grateful to have received such considered feedback and I hope I’ve addressed any outstanding issues. I have replied to each reviewer’s recommendations in this document sequentially for ease of scanning, and am most grateful for the summary strengths and weaknesses, which I am also incorporated into these replies. Thank you again!

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The manuscript makes the important argument that many meta-analyses are inherently fragile, which aligns with prior work (e.g., PMID: 40999337). Please add the reference to the statements.

      Excellent point, thank you – I’ve expanded the discussion of fragility analysis, and its application to meta-analysis, including this reference.

      (2) The rationale and mathematical underpinnings of the proposed EOI and ROAR methods are not sufficiently explained. While the authors cite Grimes (2022, 2024b), readers are expected to rely heavily on these external sources without adequate exposition in the current paper. This limits the ability to fully evaluate the reasonableness of the methods or to reproduce the approach. I strongly recommend expanding the description of EOI and ROAR within the manuscript.

      I agree fully – I was a little remiss in this scope, as I was worried about overwhelming the reader. However, I was too sparse with detail and have now extended the text this way to describe the methods intuitively as possible (see Discussion, subsection “Ellipse of Insignificance and Region of Attainable Redaction”

      (3) In the Methods, the authors note that EOIMETA is applicable when between-study heterogeneity is low. However, the manuscript provides little guidance on how to interpret results when heterogeneity is high (e.g., larger I² values). I recommend clarifying this issue in the Results or Discussion sections, emphasizing the limitations of EOIMETA under high heterogeneity. Ideally, the authors could include either a small simulation study or an illustrative example to demonstrate the performance of the method in such settings.

      This is an excellent question, and I was remiss for not considering it better in the manuscript. Originally, the simple idea was to just pool the results for EOI, in which case heterogeneity would be an issue. But I then subsequently added weighed-inverse variance methods to account for situations with increased heterogeneity, so my initial comment was not strictly correct. I’ve changed the text in several places, notably in the methods and in the discussion (see reply point 5).

      (4) While EOIMETA is introduced as a generalizable fragility metric for meta-analyses, the illustrative examples would benefit from clearer comparisons with the traditional Fragility Index (FI). Because FI is well established in the RCT literature and familiar to many readers, presenting side-by-side results (e.g., FI at the trial level versus EOIMETA at the meta-analytic level) would provide important context. Such comparisons would also highlight the added value of EOIMETA, underscoring that even when individual trials appear robust under FI, the pooled meta-analysis may remain fragile.

      This is an excellent idea! The new table is given below. Note that traditional FI are not defined for non-significant results, and EOI is ambiguous for counts <2.

      (5) In the Discussion currently states that the Fragility Index (FI) applies only to binary outcomes. This is not entirely accurate. While the original FI was indeed developed for dichotomous endpoints, subsequent methodological work has extended the concept to other data types, including continuous outcomes (continuous fragility index, CFI). The manuscript should acknowledge this distinction: EOIMETA presently focuses on binary outcomes at the meta-analytic level, but FI more broadly is not restricted to binary data. Adding this clarification, with appropriate citations, would improve accuracy and place EOIMETA more clearly within the broader fragility literature.

      Thank you for this catch – clarified now in the discussion:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Typos/inconsistencies/writing clarifications: All table and figure legends and titles are missing a period at the end of each sentence. In the sentence "to be estimated by bootstrap methods. Initially, we ran...", there should be a space between "methods" and "Initially" (line 113).

      Apologies, these are now remedied.

      (2) In Table 2, the total number of patients in the meta-analysis of all 12 studies is reported as 133,262, whereas the text states 133,475 patients. Based on my calculations from Figure 2, the total appears to be 133,262. Could you please clarify this discrepancy?

      Certainly – your calculations are correct. The text figure was a typo based on a very early draft where the summation function was not correctly run, and doubled counted some cases. This was fixed for the figure but not the text. The text should now match, thank you for spotting this. There are some issues with figure 2, which I will address in next few points.

      (3) Regarding this point, the meta-analysis by Zhang et al. (2019) shows some inconsistencies in the reported number of patients in the paper. According to the data provided on GitHub the total number of patients is 37671. However, Table 1 of the paper lists 38538 patients, and the main text states "5 RCTs involving 39168 patients." Similarly, for Guo et al. (2023), the main text reports that the meta-analysis included 11 RCTs with 112165 patients, whereas the table lists 111952, which appears consistent with the data available on GitHub. There is also a discrepancy in Zhang et al. (2022), which cites 61853 patients in the introduction but 61223 patients in Table 1. These inconsistencies should be clarified, as even small discrepancies in reported sample sizes can undermine the credibility of the analyses presented.

      Well-spotted – the incorrect figures are artefacts of an early draft with a double-counting summation function, and I should have spotted them and removed them prior to submission. To clarify, the correct figures from each study (which agree with github data) are given in the corrected table 1.

      Thus, there are 38,538 subjects in the Zhang et al 2019 analysis, which matches the first sheet of the github listing. The confusion comes from sheet 2 which was included only with this, which breaks these events down into events / non-events (hence the total non-events being 37,671) but keeps the old labels. This is needlessly confusing, and accordingly I have re-uploaded the data with correct headers for sheet 2.  This summation problem was also apparent in the total of figure 2, which has been replaced with a correct version now. Thank you for spotting this!

      (4) In line 158, who does "He" refer to? Please clarify this in more detail.

      Apologies, this was a typo and should have read “the” – now corrected.

      (5) The discrepant results of the RCT by Scragg et al. (2018) between the meta-analysis by Zhang et al. and that by Guo et al. could be presented in a table. This could be included as supplementary material or, preferably, in the main text (Results section).

      To avoid confusion, I will add a version of this to the github files for interested users to explore.

      (6) In the legend of Figure 2, a period is missing at the end of the sentence. Additionally, although it is generally understood, it would be helpful to specify that the numbers in parentheses represent the confidence intervals. Please confirm whether these are 95%, 89%, or 99% confidence intervals.

      Apologies, these are 95% CIs. Clarified now in updated legends.

      (7) The statement of "The more recent and robust methods for fragility analysis (EOI) and redaction (ROAR) have potential applications beyond fragile-by-design RCTs, extending to cohort studies, preclinical work, and even ecological studies, as stated by the author" in line 163. Could you please provide references supporting these claims? I believe the relevant references may be included in the EOI paper, but it would be helpful to cite them here as well.

      This has recently been used in new analysis now cited in the introduction with fuller description of method for context. Please see response to reviewer 1, points 2

      (8) Since the study was previously published as a preprint (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.08.15.25333793v1.full-text), this should be mentioned in the manuscript.

      Added as a note now.

      (9) It would also be valuable to include a figure illustrating ROAR for the same meta-analyses presented in Figure 1 for EOI, possibly as supplementary material.

      See reply to point 10.

      (10) Finally, it would be interesting to provide plots of both EOI and ROAR for the meta-analyses of all 12 included studies. These graphs could be replicated using the code examples provided by the author in the original EOI and ROAR publications.

      These have now been added to the github repository as supplementary material.

      (11a) Replications of EOI fragility: eoicfunc.R (github): - In the code provided on GitHub, an error occurred in the "EllipseFromEquation" function within eoifunc. This was due to the PlaneGeometry package not being available for the latest version of R. I attempted several installation methods (using devtools, remotes, and GitHub, as well as direct installation from a URL). However, after adjusting the code, I was able to run the analyses. For the full cohort, including all 12 studies using the EOI approach, I obtained a Minimal Experimental Arm only recoding (xi) = 14 and a Minimal Control Arm only recoding (yi) = 15, whereas the authors reported that 5 recodings were sufficient. It appears that differences in code versions or functions might have slightly affected the results. After downgrading R and running the eoic function with PlaneGeometry successfully installed, the fragility index for the EOI approach was 15 rather than 5.

      Apologies for the issue with PlaneGeometry, I will try to fix this for future iterations. The difference you see is an artefact of running EOIFUNC on pooled data, rather than the dedicated EOIMETA function, with the chief difference being that EOIFUNC doesn’t apply WIV correction.  If we simply pool events, this is the output:

      Author response image 1.

      If the reviewer uses the EOIMETA function which employs inverse weighing, then to define each trial we use a vector of events and non-events in each arm. For all the 12 studies, this would be (in R code syntax, or import from github file)

      Author response image 2.

      Then they will obtain:

      Author response image 3.

      If the reviewer runs a simple pooler analysis with weighed inverse correction turned off, they should return a similar answer as a simple eoifunc call, save the zero count correction difference. But EOIMETA weighs the sample, and is reported in main paper.

      (12) I recalculated the eoic function for Zhang et al. (2019) and found a fragility index (dmin) of 1. FECKUP Vector Length: 0.5722. Minimal Experimental Arm Recoding (xi): 0.7738. Minimal Control Arm Recoding (yi): 0.8499.

      This again appears to be an artefact of using eoifunc rather than eoimeta; with eoimeta, which uses WIV to adjust the studies for heterogeneity effects, this is the reported output:

      Author response image 4.

      (13) Using the previous code (before downgrading R and loading PlaneGeometry), I recalculated the EOI for Zhang et al. (2022) and found Minimal Experimental Arm only recoding (xi) = 55 and Minimal Control Arm only recoding (yi) = 59-results slightly closer to those reported by the authors. After properly loading PlaneGeometry, I recalculated and obtained for Zhang et al. (2022): Fragility index (dmin) = 57; FECKUP Vector Length = 39.948; Minimal Experimental Arm Recoding (xi) = 54.5436; Minimal Control Arm Recoding (yi) = 58.635.

      Again this appears to be a difference in using eoifunc or eoimeta as a call -  I can replicate this result using EOIFUNC:

      Author response image 5:

      But adjusting for study weighing with eoimeta:

      Author response image 6.

      (14) For Guo et al. (2022), the EOI fragility index was 17 [dmin = 17]. FECKUP Vector Length: 11.3721. Minimal Experimental Arm Recoding (xi): -15.6825. Minimal Control Arm Recoding (yi): -16.5167. However, the authors report an EOI fragility of 38. Since I was able to load PlaneGeometry properly and run eoicfunc.R (from GitHub) without errors, the discrepancies likely reflect minor coding or version inconsistencies rather than software limitations.

      These again stem from using eoifunc on simple pooled data versus eoimeta, which adjusts by study.

      (15) Replications of ROAR fragility: roarfunc.R (github): - For Guo et al. (2022), the ROAR fragility calculated using roarfunc.R was 16 [rmin (Redaction Fragility Index) = 16]. FOCK Vector Length: 15.942. Minimal Experimental Arm Redaction (xc): 15.9442. Minimal Control Arm Redaction (yc): 978.8906. In the main text, the author reports a redaction fragility of 37. What might explain these discrepancies?

      Again, this stems from EOIMETA versus EOIFUNC (and roarfunc calls without weighed adjustment). As the reviewer has observed, the fragility increases when there is no study level adjustment, which we have now added to the discussion text.

      (16) In generic_run.R, line 6 contains a bug - it is missing a forward slash (/) between the directory path and the filename. The correct line of code should be: pathload = paste0(pathname, "/", filename, exname). The same issue occurs in generalcode.R.

      Apologies, I will correct this in the upload!

      (17) Theoretical framework: Is there any other method available for comparison besides the one proposed by Atal et al.? Could you include a brief literature review describing alternative approaches?

      To my knowledge, there is not – Xing et al (now referenced) covered this earlier in the year, and I have included an expanded background for this purpose. Please see reply to reviewer 1, point 1.

      (18a) There appears to be no heterogeneity in the meta-analysis in terms of effect sizes and I², likely because most values are quite large, yet the included studies address very different populations (e.g., patients with COPD, NSCLC survivors, older adults, women, and GI cancer survivors). This could have been explained more clearly, including how such diverse literature might influence fragility indices or whether there is a logical rationale for combining these studies. Could you perform a sensitivity analysis or provide a conceptual explanation of how the heterogeneity - or lack thereof - across these trials may affect the fragility indices? Although I² values are small, the conceptual heterogeneity among studies suggests that the pooled results may be comparing fundamentally different clinical contexts, which requires clarification.

      I think this is a very pertinent point, I am unsure as to why these authors combined such diverse populations without any consideration of whether they were comparable, but this is a common problem in meta-analysis. I have added the following to the discussion to address this problem:

      “The use of vitamin D meta-analyses in this work was chosen as illustrative rather than specific, but it is worth noting that there are methodological concerns with much vitamin D research. (Grimes aet al., 2024). The three studies cited in this work report relatively low heterogeneity in their meta-analysis in both effect sizes and I<sup>2</sup> values, but it is worth noting that the included studies addressed very different populations, including patients with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, Non small cell lung cancer survivors, women only cohorts, older adults, and gastrological cancer survivors. These groups have presumably different risk factors for cancer deaths, and why the authors of these studies combined the cohorts with fundamentally different clinical contexts is unclear. Why the heterogeneity appeared so relatively low in different groups is also a curious feature. This goes beyond the scope of the current work, but serves as an example of the reality that meta-analysis is only as strong as its underlying data and methodological rigor in comparing like-with-like, and the conclusions drawn from them must always be seen in context.”

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 156, acronym FI not defined.

      Apologies, I this is now defined at the outset as “fragility index”.

      (2) Line 158, typo "He"?

      Apologies again, this was a typo and was supposed to read “the”, fixed now.

      (3) Across the manuscript, I think the "re-coding" phrasing may confuse clinical readers. Maybe rephrasing to "flipping event classification" or "flipping group" would be better.

      Excellent point – this has now been modified at the outset.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important study combines microscopy and CRISPR screening to identify factors involved in global chromatin organisation, using centromere clustering as a proxy. The authors present solid evidence demonstrating that acute depletion of a range of mitotic regulators alters centromere distribution in interphase. The work will be of interest to researchers studying genome organisation, nuclear architecture, chromosome biology, and the mechanisms linking mitosis to interphase nuclear organisation.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Guin and colleagues establish a microscopy-based CRISPR screen to find new factors involved in global chromatin organization. As a proxy of global chromatin organization they use centromere clustering in two different cell lines. They find 52 genes whose CRISPR depletion leads to centrome clustering defects in both cell lines. Using cell cycle synchronisation, they demonstrate that centromeres-redistribution upon depletion of these hits necessitates cell cycle progression through mitosis.

      Strengths:

      This manuscript explores the mechanisms of global chromatin organization, which is a scale of chromatin organization which remains poorly understood. The imaging based CRISPR screeen is very elegant and use of appropriate positive and negative controls reinforces the solidity of the findings.

      Weaknesses:

      The manuscript shows interesting observations but left a major question unanswered: what is the functional relevance of centromeres clustering?

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors begin by highlighting the importance of genome organisation in cellular compartmentalisation and identity. They focus their study on centromeres - key chromosomal features required for segregation-and aim to identify proteins responsible for their spatial distribution in interphase nuclei. However, none of the experimental data addresses broader aspects of genome architecture, such as individual chromosome territories or A/B compartments. As such, the title of the article may be misleading and would benefit from being more specific, for example: "Identification of factors influencing centromere positioning in interphase."

      Strengths:

      One of the strengths of the paper is the comprehensive CRISPR-based screening and the comparative analysis between two distinct cell lines.

      Including further investigation into factors that behave differently across these cell lines - particularly in relation to expression levels or the unique "inverted architecture" of RPE cells-would have added valuable depth.

      Comments on revisions:

      From the previous review:<br /> The Authors have undertook a very minimal revision of the paper. The Authors have addressed some of the comments raised by rewarding the text and being slightly more critical in the interpretation of their results and added previously published literature.<br /> They have provided more details on the characterisation of the new cell lines and added some statistical analyses.

      However, I still believe that the title does not reflect the finding, as it is all about centromere position rather than "interphase genome architecture" as claimed.<br /> As I said in my previous comments, this will make a precedent and will cause mis-interpretations in the field.

      Changes from the previous version:

      While in the new manuscript the Authors have discussed that degradation of NUF2 and SPC24 caused some aberrant nuclear phenotypes, this is at odd with the first screening where these morphologies were used as part of the exclusion criteria. Some comments would be required.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Guin et al. use a CRISPR KO screen of ~1000 candidates in two human cell lines along with high-throughput image analysis to demonstrate that orderly progression through mitosis shapes centromere organization. They identify ~50 genes that perturb centromere clustering when depleted in both RPE1 and HCT116 cells and validate many of these hits using RNAi. They then use auxin-mediated acute depletion of four factors (NCAPH2, KI67, SPC24 and NUF2) to demonstrate that their effects on centromere clustering require passage through mitosis. They further suggest that lack of these factors during mitosis leads to disorganization of centromeres on the mitotic spindle and these effects persist in the subsequent interphase. Overall, the manuscript is clear, well-written, the experiments performed are appropriate and the data is interpreted accurately. In my opinion, the main strength of this manuscript is the discovery of several hits associated with altered centromere clustering. These hits will serve as a solid foundation for future work investigating the functional significance of centromere clustering in human cells. On the other hand, how the changes in centromere clustering relate to other aspects of interphase genome architecture (A/B compartments, chromosome territories etc) remains unclear and represents the main limitation of this manuscript.

    5. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Although the data are generally solid and well interpreted, a control showing that protein depletion works properly in cell-cycle arrested cells is lacking, both when using siRNAs and degron-based depletion.

      We now demonstrate in Fig. S9 efficient degron-mediated depletion of both NUF2 and SPC24 in cell-cycle arrested cells by Western blotting. We show similar data for siRNA knockdowns. Our siRNA knockdown experiments include a “siDEATH” control that induces cytotoxicity by targeting several essential genes. In Fig. S6a we now show that siDEATH transfection results in strong cytotoxicity and cell death in cycling as well as cell cycle arrested G1/S and G2/M populations indicating efficient protein depletion. Additionally, in Fig. S6b we now show depletion NCAPH2 protein levels by siRNA knockdown in cycling as well as cell cycle arrested cell populations by Western blot analysis. We mention these results on page 11 and page 13.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The filtering strategy used in the screen imposes significant constraints, as it selects only for non-essential or functionally redundant genes. This is a critical point, as key regulators of chromatin organisation - such as components of the condensin and cohesin complexes-are typically essential for viability. Similarly, known effectors of centromere behaviour (e.g., work by the Fachinetti's lab) often lead to aneuploidy, micronuclei formation, and cell cycle arrest in G1. The implication of this selection criterion should be clearly discussed, as it fundamentally shapes the interpretation of the study's findings.

      We discussed our hit selection criteria on page 8 and in the Methods section. Some of the concerns regarding a bias towards non-essential genes are alleviated by the fact that our screen is limited to a relative short duration of 72 hours rather than the longer timepoints that are generally used to assess essentiality in pooled CRISPR-KO screens, allowing us to identify genes that may be essential if eliminated permanently. In support of this notion, we identify subunits of the essential condensin and cohesin complexes as hits with only limited effect on cell viability. In this case, the Z-score for change in cell number upon NCAPH2 knockout was -0.26 indicating only a mild reduction compared to the average cell number across all targets.

      Other confounding effects on hit selection due to micronuclei formation, cell cycle effects etc. are minimized as we closely monitor micronuclei formation and cell viability in our screen. Finally, aneuploidy is similarly not a confounding factor in hit identification since, as we previously demonstrated, the Ripley’s K-based clustering score is robust to changes in spot number (Keikhosravi, A., et al. 2025).

      A major limitation of the study is the lack of connection between centromere clustering and its biological significance. It remains unclear whether this clustering is a meaningful proxy for higher-order genome organisation. Additionally, the study does not explore potential links to cell identity or transcriptional landscapes. Readers may struggle to grasp the broader relevance of the findings: if gene knockouts that alter centromere positioning do not affect cell viability or cell cycle progression, does this imply that centromere clustering - and by extension, interphase genome organisation - is not biologically significant?

      We appreciate these points. Given the presence of one centromere on each chromosome, we used centromeres as surrogate landmarks of higher-order nuclear genome organization and considered centromere patterns as a general indicator of overall genome organization. While the relationship of centromere patterns to other genome features is poorly understood in mammalian cells, a link is suggested by observations in other organisms. For example, in yeast, the clustering of centromeres reflects the overall Rabl configuration of chromosomes. Having said that, we agree that our extrapolation to overall genome organization is somewhat speculative, and we have toned down these conclusions throughout the manuscript.

      We agree that one of the most interesting questions emerging from our study is whether centromere clustering has a functional role. In follow-up studies we will use some of the key regulator identified in these screens to perturb the native centromere distribution and assay for various cellular responses including in gene expression and genome integrity. These studies will be the subject of future publications.

      Another point requiring clarification is the conclusion that the four identified genes represent independent pathways regulating centromere clustering. In reality, all of these proteins localise to centromeres. For example, SPC24 and NUF2 are components of the NDC80 complex; Ki-67, a chromosome periphery protein, has been mapped to centromeres; and CAP-Hs, a subunit of the condensin II complex that during G1 promotes CENP-A deposition. Given their shared localisation, it would be informative to assess aneuploidy indices following depletion of each factor. Chromosome-specific probes could help determine whether centromere dysfunction leads to general mis-segregation or reflects distinct molecular mechanisms. Additionally, exploring whether Ki-67 mutants that affect its surfactant-like properties influence centromere clustering could provide a more mechanistic insight.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We now clarify the relationship of these proteins to centromeres in more detail on page 12. While they all have some relationship to centromeres, as would be expected if they contributed to centromere clustering, they represent multiple distinct pathways and processes.

      The observed effects on clustering are unlikely due to aneuploidy as only very limited aneuploidy is observed in our cells and because Ripley’s K measurement of centromere clustering is robust to change in chromosome copy number. Follow-up studies using live cell imaging approaches are currently in progress to address some of these mechanistic questions.

      Finally, the additive effects observed mild mis-segregation effects are amplified when two proteins within the same pathway are depleted. This possibility should be considered in the interpretation of the data.

      We rephrased the text on page 14 based on the reviewer’s recommendations.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Given the authors' suggestion that disorderly mitotic progression underlies the changes in centromere clustering in the subsequent interphase, I think it would be beneficial to showcase examples of disorderly mitosis in the AID samples and perhaps even quantify the misalignment on the metaphase plate.

      We now include in Fig. S11 examples of disordered mitotic nuclei observed in the absence of NUF2 or SPC24.

      I don't quite agree with the description that centromeres cluster into chromocenters (p4 para 2, p17 para 1, and other instances in the manuscript). To the best of my knowledge, chromocenters primarily consist of clustered pericentromeric heterochromatin, while the centromeres are studded on the chromocenter surface. This has been beautifully demonstrated in mouse cells (Guenatri et al., JCB, 2004), but it is true in other systems like flies and plants as well.

      We have modified this description on page 4.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      (1) Proper characterisation of the cell lines used in the manuscript. Tagged proteins have been known to affect protein levels compared to the parental cell, and where this is the case (or not), it needs to be transparently shown in the manuscript.

      The cell lines to conditionally deplete NCAPH2 and KI67 have previously been published, and they have been characterized to show normal expression levels of the tagged protein (Takagi et al., 2018). We also show quantification of Western blots to compare protein level of tagged SPC24 and NUF2 to that of the untagged proteins in the parental cell line (Fig. S8e-f) and discuss these results on page 11 and page 12.

      (2) Demonstration of protein depletion in the degron cell lines.

      We showed efficient protein depletion in the degron cell lines (Fig. S8c and S8d). In addition, we now show in Fig. S9 depletion of SPC24 and NUF2 in cells arrested at G1/S and G2/M.

      (3) The study examines centromere clustering, but not genome architecture. While it is understood that a complete investigation of genome architecture is beyond the scope of the current study, the interpretation does not match the data. The authors are suggested to pay attention to this point throughout the manuscript and consider their findings in terms of centromere clustering rather than genome architecture, including changing the title accordingly.

      We have toned down our statements regarding overall genome organization throughout the manuscript. Since centromeres are a natural fiducial marker for overall genome organization and a link to overall genome organization has been suggested in some organisms such as yeast, we have retained the wording in a few select instances, including the title. We also make it clear that we do not intend to draw conclusions regarding TADs or even compartments but consider centromere patterns an indicator of overall genome organization.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Controls of depletion by western blot in synchronized cells (siRNAs and degrons) are lacking.

      We now show Western blots demonstrating efficient depletion of the target proteins in degron (Fig. S9) and siRNA treated cell-cycle arrested cells (Fig. S6b).

      It would have been very nice to discuss the implications of these findings further. For example, do centromere clustering changes gene expression/repression of pericentromeric heterochromatin expression? Is centromere clustering associated with specific diseases? How is global chromatin organization affecting gene expression/genome stability, etc? Although some of these aspects are unknown, a discussion about them would have been nice.

      We appreciate these interesting points. These questions are the subject of our ongoing follow up studies. We now discuss possible consequences of centromere re-organization on gene expression and genome stability on page 18.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major Comments:

      (1) Clarify Scope and Avoid Overinterpretation

      (a) The study exclusively investigates centromere positioning, without addressing broader aspects of genome architecture.

      (b) There is no established link presented between centromere positioning and higher-order genome organisation.

      We have toned down our statements regarding overall genome organization throughout the manuscript. Since centromeres are a natural fiducial marker for overall genome organization and observations in yeast suggest such a link, we have retained the wording in a few select instances. We make it clear that we do not intend to draw conclusions regarding TADs or even compartments but consider centromere patterns an indicator of overall genome organization.

      (c) The exclusion criteria used in the screen should be clearly explained, including the implications of selecting only non-essential or redundant genes.

      We discuss on page 8 and in the Methods section the exclusion criteria used in the screen, including the implications for identifying essential genes.

      (d) The authors should discuss why the identified proteins significantly affect centromere clustering but do not impact cell cycle progression.

      We now discuss this topic briefly on page 9. While some hits are expected to affect both cell-cycle progression and centromere clustering (Fig. S4c), it is not a priori expected that all hits would affect both.

      (2) Supplementary Figure 1

      This figure appears unnecessary. The co-localisation between CENP-C and CENP-A is well established in the literature, and the scoring provided does not add essential new information.

      The data was included in response to repeat questions from a centromere expert. We prefer to retain this data for completeness.

      (3) Differential Hits between Cell Lines 

      For hits that behave differently across cell lines, expression data should be provided. Are the genes equally expressed in both cell types? What is the level of depletion achieved?

      It is possible that cell-type specific hits arise due to difference in expression. Cell-type specific hits may also arise due multiple other reason including cancer vs. non-cancer origin, hTERT-immortalization, cell growth properties, variation in underlying DNA sequences of the Cas9 target loci, initial state of centromere clustering to name a few. Each of these possibilities requires additional experiments to identify the exact reason for cell-type specificity of a given factor. A full analysis of the reason for cell-type specificity is, however, beyond the scope of current study.

      (4) Efficiency of Cell Cycle-Specific Degradation

      Degradation efficiency likely varies across cell cycle stages. The authors should provide Western blots showing the extent of protein depletion at each cell cycle block.

      We provide Western blot data in Fig. S9 to demonstrate efficient knockdown of proteins in G1/S and G2/M arrested cells.

      (5) Figure S6 - Validation of New Cell Lines

      Genotyping data for the newly generated cell lines should be included, along with Western blots using protein-specific antibodies (not just the tag), compared to the parental cell line.

      We provide in Fig. S7c-d genotyping data and in Fig. S8e-f Western blot data to compare levels of tagged and untagged proteins.

      (6) Figure S7 - G2/M Block Efficiency

      The G2/M block appears suboptimal after 20 hours in RO-3306, with only ~50% of cells in G2/M and just 21-27% for Ki-67, where most cells remain in S phase. This raises concerns about the interpretation of mitotic depletion effects. It is possible that cells never progressed from G1 or completed S phase without Ki-67. Prior studies (van Schaik et al., 2022; Stamatiou et al., 2024) have shown delayed and uneven replication of centromeric/pericentromeric regions upon Ki-67 depletion during S phase, which could affect the readout. Live-cell imaging would be a more robust approach to confirm mitotic status.

      For KI67 after RO-3306 treatment, 73 and 67% cells were arrested at the G2/M boundary in the presence or absence of KI67, respectively (Fig. S10a-b). Upon release from G2/M arrest, the proportion of G1 cells increased from 6-13% to 28-60% in all four factors tested (Fig. S10b, and d). Please note that our results are not directly dependent on release efficiency, since we use single-cell staging (Fig. 3b) and selectively analyze only G1 populations (Fig. 5c).

      We are currently working towards live cell imaging, but this requires development and characterization of additional cell lines which is beyond the scope of this study.

      Statistical analyses of cell cycle phase distributions should also be included.

      We include statistical analyses of cell cycle phase distributions in Fig. S4c and Fig. S10c-d by performing t-tests with FDR corrections to compare percentage of cells in either in G1, S or G2 in the presence and absence of each factor tested.

      (7) Aneuploidy Assessment

      Aneuploidy scores for the four key proteins should be provided, ideally using centromere-specific FISH probes.

      While an aneuploidy score for each hit would be interesting piece of information, we showed in a previous publication that the Ripley’s K-based Clustering Score method used here is robust to aneuploidy (Keikhosravi et al., 2025) and aneuploidy would thus not lead to spurious identification of these proteins in our screen.

      (8) Add-Back Experiment (Page 14)

      While the add-back experiment is conceptually strong, its execution could be improved. <br /> It should be performed on synchronised cells: deplete the protein in G2/M, arrest in thymidine, then release into G1 without the protein to observe the unclustering phenotype.

      Re-expression should occur during the block, followed by release and analysis in the next G1 phase. This would better demonstrate whether clustering defects from the previous division can be rescued.

      We have attempted these types of long-term depletion experiments in cell-cycle arrested cells, but have observed significant viability defects, making results uninterpretable.

      (9) Statistical Analyses

      Several figures lack statistical analysis, which is essential for data interpretation:

      (a) Figure 1B-E

      (b) Figure 3I

      (c) Figure 4B

      (d) Figure 5B, C, G

      (e) Supplementary Figures S4B and S7

      Statistical analyses were performed for a) Fig. 1b-e, b) Fig. 3i, c) Fig. 4b, d) Fig. 5b-c and the details of the test are mentioned in the corresponding figure legends. We also include statistical tests for Fig. 5g, S5b and S7c-d.

      Minor Comments:

      (1) Page 9: "Reassuringly, in line with known centromere-nucleoli association (Bury, Moodie et al. 2020, van Schaik, Manzo et al. 2022)..."

      The citation "van Schaik, Manzo et al. 2022" is incorrect and should be revised.

      We have removed this reference.

      (2) Page 10:

      "...were grouped into six categories: regulators of chromatin structure, kinetochore proteins, nucleolar proteins, nuclear pore complex components..."

      The authors should note that NUP160, listed as a nuclear pore complex hit, is also a kinetochore component during mitosis and may be linked to mitotic defects.

      We now mention this on page 10.

      (3) Page 12:

      "Progression through S phase was equally efficient in the presence or absence of KI67."

      While bulk S phase progression may appear unaffected, refined analyses (e.g., Repli-seq, EdU patterning) have shown delayed replication of centromeric/pericentromeric regions upon Ki-67 depletion. This should be acknowledged, especially given the study's focus on centromeres (see Schaik et al., 2022; Stamatiou et al., 2024).

      Our statement was meant to describe the results we observed in this study. We indicate that overall progression is not affected, but subtle effects may persist, and we cite the relevant references on page 13.

      (4) Page 12:

      "KI67 is a well-known marker of cell proliferation..."

      The first study demonstrating the dependency of chromosome periphery on Ki-67 was Booth et al., 2014, which should be cited.

      This citation has been added.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) On page 14, paragraph 1, the authors suggest that NCAPH2 and SPC24 act independently on centromere clustering. I'm not convinced that this is the right interpretation of the data. Rather, the lack of an additive phenotype following NCAPH2 and SPC24 dual depletion suggests to me that these two proteins are acting in the same pathway.

      We show that knockdown of NCAPH2 and SPC24 results in opposite effects in centromere clustering. However, knockdown of SPC24 in NCAPH2-AID cells produces an intermediate level of clustering compared to depletion of NCAPH2 or SPC24 knockdown alone. This indicates additive effects. We have modified our description of these results on p. 14.

      (2) The analysis and experimental design in Figure 5g could be improved. For one, I would add statistical comparisons like the other figure panels. Second, the authors would ideally perform AID depletion in a synchronized G2 population before washout during the subsequent G1. This design might make some of the more subtle changes (e.g., KI67-AID) more obvious.

      We now include statistical analysis in Fig. 5g. We have attempted long-term depletion experiments in cell-cycle arrested cells, but have observed significant viability defects, making results uninterpretable.

      (3) In the discussion, the authors allude to centromere clustering data from the NDC80 complex, HMGA1, and other HMGs but fail to direct the reader to where they may find the data. If these data are in Tables S4 and S5, perhaps the authors could make these tables more reader-friendly?

      For each target, the mean Z-score of two biological replicates based on Clustering Score is located in column H in Table S4 and S5.

      (4) In my opinion, the term 'clustering score' comes across a bit ambiguous. In most cases, this term appears to refer to the distance between centromeric foci but is used occasionally to refer to the number of centromeric spots. For example, on page 9, paragraph 1, line 3, cluster/clustering is used three times but with slightly different meanings. Perhaps the authors can consider using the word 'clustering' to indicate the number of spots, 'dispersion' to indicate distance between centromeres, and 'radial distribution' to indicate distance from the nuclear center? Or other ways to improve the consistency of the descriptive terms.

      We apologize for not being clear. The Clustering Score is a very specific parameter derived from use of a Ripley’s K clustering algorithm as described in Materials and Methods. We now ensure that the term is used correctly throughout and that the other terms are also used consistently.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This manuscript provides a valuable contribution by identifying a stress-responsive circuit and its regulation of anxiety-related behaviors. The evidence is convincing that the supramammillary nucleus contains stress-responsive neurons that increase anxiety-like behaviors when activated, and that ventral subiculum projections to the supramammillary are also activated by stress and their inhibition alleviates some effects of stress. Evidence that this pathway encodes and is functionally specific to anxiety is, at present, not sufficiently support and will require future studies. This work offers new insights into how distinct circuits are activated by stress and can regulate emotional behaviors and will be of interest to those interested in brain systems of aversive emotional and behavioral states.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In the revised manuscript, the authors refine their conclusions, narrow their interpretation, and add limited new analyses but have not added additional new data or made fundamental changes in the analyses of their data.

      The central findings are that the SuM contains neurons that are activated by stressors (foot shock and social defeat). Chemogenetic activation of SuM and the neurons genetically tagged as active during foot shocks, which the authors define as Stress Activated Neurons, increases classic anxiety-like behaviors. The subiculum projects to the SuM, and terminals in the SuM from the ventral versus dorsal subiculum are differentially active during elevated plus-maze transitions. Chronic inhibition of vSub neurons that project to SuM mitigates CSDS-induced anxiety-like behaviors.

      Due to limitations in the data and experimental design the findings are felt to remain incomplete. A central limitation is the discordance between the temporal resolution of the behavioral assays and the neural interventions used. This weakens support for the conclusions drawn about the causal roles the SuM and specific vSub projections to SuM (vSub→SuM) may play in anxiety and anxiety-like behaviors. The authors acknowledge this limitation but do not address it experimentally in the revised manuscript. Furthermore, the connection between chronic inhibition of vSub→SuM neurons for 10 days and the alleviation of CSDS-induced anxiety is incomplete. Separately, the use of foot shock and social defeat stressors in connection with SuM neurons, with limited exploration of the potential (or lack thereof) relation between the two groups, further limits the ability to draw conclusions from the data.

      Although a number of interesting points are raised through the experiments the weakness noted will reduce the impact of the work in the field.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript investigates the neural mechanisms of anxiety and identifies the supramammillary nucleus (SuM) as a critical hub in mediating anxiety-related behaviors. The authors describe a population of neurons in the SuM that are activated by acute and chronic stress. While their activity is not required for fear memory recall, reactivation of these neurons after chronic stress robustly increases anxiety-like behaviors as well as physiological stress markers. Circuit analysis further shows that these stress-activated neurons are driven by inputs from the ventral, but not dorsal, subiculum, and inhibition of this pathway exerts an anxiolytic effect.

      The study provides an elegant integration of techniques linking stress, neuronal ensembles, and circuit function, advancing our understanding of the neural substrates of anxiety. A particularly notable point is the selective role of these stress-activated neurons in anxiety, but not in associative fear memory, highlighting functional distinctions between neural circuits underlying anxiety and fear.

      The recruited neuronal population is activated by acute and chronic stress, though the overlap across stress exposures is partial, suggesting that further studies will be important to define how these neurons respond under other stressors and conditions.

      Overall, this work identifies SuM stress-activated neurons and their ventral subiculum inputs as central elements of anxiety circuitry, providing a valuable framework for future studies and potential targeted interventions for stress-related disorders.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aim to investigate the mechanisms of anxiety. The paper focuses on supramammillary nucleus (SuM) based on a fos screen and recordings showing that footshock and social defeat stress increases activity in this region. Using activity-dependent tagging, they show that reactivation of stress-activated neurons in SuM has an anxiety-like effect, reducing open-arm exploration in the elevated zero task. They then investigate the ventral subiculum as a potential source of anxiety-related information for SuM. They show that ventral subiculum (vSub) inputs to SuM are more strongly activated than dSub when mice explore open arms of the elevated zero. Finally, they show that DREADD-mediated inhibition of vSub-SuM projections alleviates stress-enhanced anxiety. Overall the results provide good evidence that SuM contains a stress-activated neuronal population whose later activity increases anxiety-like behavior. It further provides evidence that vSub projects to SuM are activated by stress and their inhibition alleviates some effects of stress.

      Strengths:

      Strengths of this paper include the use of convergent methods (e.g., fos plus electrode recordings, footshock and social defeat) to demonstrate that the SuM is activated by different forms of stress. The activity-dependent tagging experiment shows that footshock-activated SuM neurons are reactivated by social defeat but not sucrose is also compelling because it provides evidence that SuM neurons are driven by some integrative aspect of stress rather than by a simple sensory stimulus.

      Weaknesses:

      The strength of some evidence is judged to be incomplete. The paper provides good evidence that SuM contains stress-responsive neurons, and the activity of these neurons increases some measure of anxiety-like behavior. However, the evidence that the vSub-SuM projection "encodes anxiety" and that the SuM is a key regulator of anxiety is judged to be incomplete. I am not convinced that the identified SuM cells have a specific anxiety function. As the authors mention in the introduction, SuM regulates exploration and theta activity. Since theta potently regulates hippocampal function, there is the concern that SuM manipulations could have broad effects beyond anxiety-like behavior.

    5. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Weaknesses

      As presented, the manuscript has limitations that weaken support for the central conclusions drawn by the authors. Many of the findings align with prior work on this topic, but do not extend those findings substantially.

      An overarching limitation is the lack of temporal resolution in the manipulations relative to the behavioral assays. This is particularly important for anxiety-like behaviors, as antecedent exposures can alter performance. In the open field and elevated zero maze assays, testing occurred 30 minutes after CNO injection. During much of this interval, the targeted neurons were likely active, making it difficult to determine whether observed behavioral changes were primary - resulting directly from SuM neuronal activity - or secondary, reflecting a stress-like state induced by prolonged activation of SuM and related circuits. This concern also applies to the chronic inhibition of ventral subiculum (vSub) neurons during 10 days of CSDS.

      We appreciate the reviewer's concern regarding the timing of CNO administration relative to behavioral testing. The 30-minute interval was selected according to some previous studies[1, 2]. This window ensures stable and specific neuronal manipulation while minimizing off-target effects and was strictly performed through all experiments. We acknowledge that shorter interval (~15 mins) can be efficient to produce biological effect in vivo[3, 4]. We repeated chemogenetic tests 2-3 times to make sure to get reliable data for statistical analysis. However, we cannot exclude potential side-effects caused by chemogenetically prolonged activation of SuM because of its poor temporal resolution compared to optogenetic manipulation. We agree that employing techniques with higher temporal resolution, such as optogenetics, in future studies would provide an excellent complement to these findings.

      The combination of stressors (foot shock and CSDS) and behavioral assays further complicates interpretation. The precise role of SuM neurons, including SANs, remains unclear. Both vSub and dSub neurons responded to foot shock, but only vSub neurons showed activity differences associated with open-arm transitions in the EZM.

      We agree that the use of multiple stressors (foot shock and CSDS) adds complexity to the interpretation. Our rationale was to test the generality of the SuM response and the role of SANs across different stress modalities (acute vs. chronic). The key finding is that while both vSub and dSub projections to the SuM were activated by the acute stressor of foot shock (Figure 5N-R), only the vSub-SuM pathway showed a significant increase in calcium activity specifically during the anxiety-provoking transition from the closed to the open arms of the EZM (Figure 5I-M). This dissociation suggests a selective role for the vSub-SuM circuit in encoding anxiety-related information, beyond a general response to stress.

      In light of prior studies linking SuM to locomotion (Farrell et al., Science 2021; Escobedo et al., eLife 2024), the absence of analyses connecting subpopulations to locomotor changes weakens the claim that vSub neurons selectively encode anxiety. Because open- and closed-arm transitions are inherently tied to locomotor activity, locomotion must be carefully controlled to avoid confounding interpretations.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the important studies linking the SuM to locomotion. We acknowledge this known function and carefully considered it in our analyses. Non-selective activation of the entire SuM didn’t affect total distance traveled in open field and elevated zero maze (Supplemental Figure 2 B-C). Although the locomotion of mice in OF and EZM was affected while targeting SANs, we also compared the travel distance in the central area of OF, to some extent, to minimize the influence of locomotion on the estimation of anxiety produced avoidance to the central area (Figure 4 I). We agree that future work delineating the specific subpopulations within the SuM that regulate locomotion versus anxiety would be highly valuable.

      Another limitation is the narrow behavioral scope. Beyond open field and EZM, no additional assays were used to assess how SAN reactivation affects other behaviors. Without richer behavioral analyses, interpretations about fear engrams, freezing, or broader stress-related functions of SuM remain incomplete.

      In addition, small n values across several datasets reduce confidence in the strength of the conclusions.

      We acknowledge that the primary focus on OF and EZM tests is a limitation in fully characterizing the behavioral profile of SAN manipulation. These tests were selected as they are well-validated, standard assays for anxiety-like behavior in rodents[5–10]. However, we also included the reward-seeking test, where activation of SANs significantly suppressed sucrose consumption (Figure 4L), suggesting a broader impact on motivational state that is often linked to anxiety. We fully agree with the reviewer that employing a richer behavioral battery—such as tests for social avoidance, conditioned place aversion, or Pavlovian fear conditioning—in future studies will be essential to comprehensively define the functional scope of SuM SANs and to conclusively dissect their role from fear memory engrams.

      Figure level concerns:

      (1) Figure 1: In Figure 1, the acute recruitment of SuM neurons by for shock is paired with changes in neural activity induced by social defeat stress. Although interesting, the connections of changes induced by a chronic stressor to Fos induction following acute foot shock are unclear and do not establish a baseline for the studies in Figure 3 on activation of SANs by social stressors.

      Thank you for this important comment. We agree that directly linking acute foot shock-induced cFos expression with chronic social defeat stress (CSDS) electrophysiological changes may create an interpretive gap. In Figure 1, we aimed to demonstrate that both acute (foot shock) and chronic (CSDS) stressors can activate SuM neurons, using complementary methods (cFos for acute, in vivo recording for chronic). We did not intend to imply that the same neuronal population responds identically to both stressors.

      To address this, we have clarified in the text that the purpose of Figure 1 is to show that SuM is responsive to diverse stressors, rather than to establish a direct mechanistic link between acute and chronic activation patterns. The baseline for SAN studies in Figure 3 is established through the TRAP2 tagging protocol following foot shock, independent of the CSDS model. We acknowledge that future studies should compare SAN recruitment across acute vs. chronic stressors to better define their functional overlap.

      (2) Figure 2: The chemogenetic experiments using AAV-hSyn-Gq-DREADDs lack data or images, or hit maps showing viral spread across animals. This omission is critical given the small size of SuM, where viral spread directly determines which neurons are manipulated. Without this, it is difficult to interpret findings in the context of prior studies on SuM circuits involved in threats and rewards.

      Please see Supplemental Figure 2 for the infection area of AAV.

      (3) Figure 3: The TRAP experiments show that the number of labeled neurons following foot shock (Figure 3F) is approximately double that of baseline home-cage animals, though y-axis scaling complicates interpretation. It is unclear whether this reflects true Fos induction, low TRAP efficiency, or baseline recombination.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the axis scaling issue. We have modified the y-axis to start from 0. The SuM nucleus has been reported to play role in the awake of rodents, it’s reasonable to have some basal neuronal activation after 4-OHT i.p. injection.

      Overlap analyses are also limited. For example, it is not shown what proportion of foot shock SANs are reactivated by subsequent foot shock. Comparisons of Fos induction after sucrose reward are also weakened by the very low Fos signal observed. If sucrose reward does not robustly induce Fos in SuM, its utility in distinguishing reward- versus stress-activated neurons is questionable. Thus, conclusions about overlap between SANs and socially stressed neurons remain uncertain due to the missing quantification of Fos+ populations.

      Thank you for the question. We have replaced the reactivation chance graph with a new reactivation percent analysis graph to show the proportion of SANs that reactivated by subsequent sucrose reward or stress. The rationale we use social stress other than foot shock is to show the potential generality of foot-shock tagged neurons. The lower expression of cFos after sucrose exposure suggest first, the SuM may not involve in reward regulation, which we agree with you; second, those SANs are more likely to modulate anxiety-like behavior but not reward.

      (4) Supplemental Figure 3: The claim that "SANs in the SuM encode anxiety but not fear memory" is not well supported. Inhibition of SANs (Gi-DREADDs) did not alter freezing behavior, but the absence of change could reflect technical issues (e.g., insufficient TRAP efficiency, low expression of Gi-DREADDs). Moreover, the manuscript does not provide a positive control showing that SuM SANs inhibition alters anxiety-like behavior, making it difficult to interpret the negative result. Prior work (Escobedo et al., eLife 2024) suggests SuM neurons drive active responses, not freezing, raising further interpretive questions.

      We agree that here we didn’t provide enough data to confirm there is no regulation effect of SuM-SANs on fear memory. Relevant statement has been removed to avoid any further misunderstanding.

      (5) Figure 4: The statement that corticosterone concentration is "usually used to estimate whether an individual is anxious" (line 236) is an overstatement. Corticosterone fluctuates dynamically across the day and responds to a broad range of stimuli beyond anxiety.

      Thank you for your kind reminder. Corticosterone/cortisol, the primary stress hormone, is a well-established biomarker whose levels are elevated in response to stress and in anxiety states.[11, 12]. Some studies also reported that supplying corticosterone can produce anxiety-like behaviors in rodents[13–16]. We collect the blood sample at the same timepoint in Figure 4 C-D. We agree that line 236 is a kind of overstatement and has modified.

      (6) Figures 5-6: The conclusion that vSub neurons encode anxiety-like behavior is not firmly supported. Data from photo-activating terminals in SuM is shown for ex vivo recording, but not in vivo behavior, which would strengthen support for this conclusion. Both vSub and dSub neurons responded to foot shock. The key evidence comes from apparent differential recruitment during open-arm exploration. However, the timing appears to lag arm entry, no data are provided for closed-arm entry, and there is heterogeneity across animals. These limitations reduce confidence in the authors' central claim regarding vSub-specific encoding of anxiety.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. To address the concern regarding the in vivo behavioral encoding specificity of the vSub-SuM pathway, we further analyzed the in vivo fiber photometry data. The new analysis revealed that calcium activity in vSub-SuM projection neurons exhibited bidirectional, instantaneous, and specific changes during transitions between the open and closed arms of the elevated plus maze: their activity significantly and immediately decreased when mice moved from the open arm to the closed arm (new results shown in Supplemental Figure 5), and conversely, significantly and immediately increased upon transitioning from the closed to the open arm. However, under the same behavioral events, dSub-SuM projection neurons showed no significant change in activity. We hope this finding could strengthens the role of the vSub-SuM pathway in encoding anxiety-like behavior.

      An appraisal of whether the authors achieved their aims, and whether the results support their conclusions:

      (1) From the data presented, the authors conclude that "the SuM is the critical brain region that regulates anxiety" (line 190). This interpretation appears overstated, as it downplays well-established contributions of other brain regions and does not place SuM's role within a broader network context. The data support that SuM neurons are recruited by foot shock and, to a lesser extent, by acute social stress. However, the alterations in activity of SuM subpopulations following chronic stress reported in Figure 1 remain largely unexplored, limiting insight into their functional relevance.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We have modified the line 190 with cautious “In this study, we combined multiple methods to determine whether the SuM is a brain region that involve in modulating anxiety.”

      (2) The limited temporal resolution of DREADD-based manipulations leaves alternative explanations untested. For example, if SANs encode signals of threat, generalized stress, or nociception, then prolonged activation could indirectly alter behavior in the open field and EZM assays, rather than reflecting direct anxiety regulation.

      We discussed the DREADD method in the first part in our response.

      (3) The conclusion that "SuM store information about stress but not memory" (line 240) is not fully supported, particularly with respect to possible roles in memory. The lack of a role in memory of events, as opposed to the output of threat or stress memory, may be true, but is functionally untested in presented experiments. The data do indicate activation of the SuM neuron by foot shock, which has been previously reported (Escobedo et al eLife 2024). The changes in SuM activity following chronic stress (Figure 1) are intriguing, but their relationship to "stress information storage" is not clearly established.

      Thank you for your valuable comments. Foot-shock-activated neurons may play role in modulate any of the following anxiety-like behaviors and emotional memory (fear memory). We realized that we didn’t fully test all aspects of anxiety and memory, thus resulting in some overstatements in the manuscript. It is more proper to focus on “anxiety avoidance” according to the reduced open-arm exploration in EZM/EPM.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript investigates the neural mechanisms of anxiety and identifies the supramammillary nucleus (SuM) as a critical hub in mediating anxiety-related behaviors. The authors describe a population of neurons in the SuM that are activated by acute and chronic stress. While their activity is not required for fear memory recall, reactivation of these neurons after chronic stress robustly increases anxiety-like behaviors as well as physiological stress markers. Circuit analysis further shows that these stress-activated neurons are driven by inputs from the ventral, but not dorsal, subiculum, and inhibition of this pathway exerts an anxiolytic effect.

      The study provides an elegant integration of techniques to link stress, neuronal ensembles, and circuit function, thereby advancing our understanding of the neural substrates of anxiety. A particularly notable point is the selective role of these stress-activated neurons in anxiety, but not in associative fear memory, which highlights functional distinctions between neural circuits underlying anxiety and fear.

      Some aspects would benefit from clarification. For example, how selective is the recruitment of this population to stress compared with other aversive states, and how should one best interpret their definition as "stress-activated neurons" given the relatively modest overlap across stress exposures? In addition, the use of the term "engram" in this context raises conceptual questions. Is it appropriate to describe a neuronal ensemble encoding an emotional state as an engram, a term usually tied to specific memory recall?

      Overall, this work makes a valuable contribution by identifying SuM stress-activated neurons and their ventral subiculum inputs as central elements of the circuitry underlying anxiety. These findings provide a valuable framework for future studies investigating anxiety circuitry and may inform the development of targeted interventions for stress-related disorders.

      We thank the reviewer for raising these important points. We agree that further clarification is warranted. In our study, we compared SAN reactivation across different stimuli: foot shock (acute physical stress), social stress (chronic psychosocial stress), and sucrose reward (non-aversive positive stimulus). As shown in Figure 3, SANs in the supramammillary nucleus (SuM) were significantly reactivated by social stress but not by sucrose reward. Moreover, the c-Fos response in SuM was markedly higher after foot shock compared to home cage controls (Figure 1). While we did not test all possible aversive states (e.g., pain, sickness), our data support that SuM SANs are preferentially recruited by stressors rather than by reward or neutral conditions. We acknowledge that the overlap across stress modalities is not complete, which may reflect differences in stress intensity, duration, or circuit engagement. Future work will systematically compare SAN recruitment across diverse aversive and non-aversive states to further define their selectivity.

      The term “stress-activated neurons” (SANs) here refers to neurons that are reliably activated by at least one type of stressor and can be reactivated by subsequent stress exposure. The partial overlap across stressors likely reflects the diversity of stress responses and the possibility that distinct subpopulations within SuM may encode different aspects of aversive experience. Importantly, chemogenetic activation of SANs was sufficient to induce anxiety-like behavior and elevate corticosterone (Figure 4), supporting their functional role in stress-related behavioral and physiological outputs. We have revised the manuscript to clarify that SANs represent a stress-responsive ensemble rather than a uniform population activated identically by all stressors.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s conceptual caution. In the revised manuscript, we intentionally avoided using the term “engram” to describe SANs. Our focus is on a stress-activated neuronal ensemble that drives anxiety-like behavior, not on memory recall per se. We refer to SANs as an “ensemble” or “population” rather than an engram, consistent with the TRAP-based labeling approach used to capture neurons activated during a specific experience. We agree that “engram” is best reserved for memory-encoding cells and will ensure this distinction remains clear throughout the text.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Weaknesses:

      The strength of some of the evidence is judged to be incomplete. The paper provides good evidence that SuM contains stress-responsive neurons, and the activity of these neurons increases some measure of anxiety-like behavior. However, the evidence that the vSub-SuM projection "encodes anxiety" and that the SuM is a key regulator of anxiety is judged to be incomplete. The claim that SuM generates an "anxiety engram" is also judged to be incompletely supported by the evidence. Namely, what is unclear is whether these cells/regions encode anxiety per se versus modulate behaviors (like exploration) that tend to correlate with anxiety. Since many brain regions respond to footshock and other stressors, the response of SuM to these stimuli is not strong evidence for a role in anxiety. I am not convinced that the identified SuM cells have a specific anxiety function. As the authors mention in the introduction, SuM regulates exploration and theta activity. Since theta potently regulates hippocampal function, there is the concern that SuM manipulations could have broad effects. As shown in Supplementary Figure 2, stimulating stress-responsive cells in SuM potently reduces general locomotor exploration. This raises concerns that the manipulation could have broader effects that go beyond just changes in anxiety-like behavior. Furthermore, the meaning of an "anxiety engram" is unclear. Would this engram encode stress, the sense of a potential threat, or the behavioral response? A more developed analysis of the behavioral correlates of SuM activity and the behavioral effects of SuM manipulations could give insight into these questions.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful critique regarding the specificity of SuM’s role in anxiety and the interpretation of our findings. We acknowledge that SuM has broad functions, including regulating exploration and hippocampal theta. However, our data show that general SuM activation increases anxiety-like measures (reduced open-arm time in EZM, decreased center exploration in OF) without altering total locomotion (Fig. 2, Suppl. Fig. 2). The locomotor reduction in SAN activation experiments (Suppl. Fig. 2F–G) was observed alongside clear anxiety-like behavioral changes (e.g. suppressed reward seeking), suggesting that the effects are not solely due to motor suppression. We agree that the methods we used to estimate anxiety-like behaviors base on mice movement when testing, and this could be a shortage of this research when trying to link the data to anxiety. Therefore it will be more proper to interpret the results as modulation of anxiety-like behavior (anxiety related avoidance) but not anxiety itself. We have modified the manuscript to describe more precise to avoid overstatement.

      Our fiber photometry data (Fig. 5) show that vSub–SuM projection neurons increase activity specifically when mice enter open arms of the EZM—a behavioral transition associated with anxiety—whereas dSub–SuM projections do not. This activity correlates with anxiety-related behavior, not merely with movement or stress per se.

      We also agree that the term “engram” may be misleading in this context. In the manuscript, we refer to SANs as a “stress-activated neuronal ensemble” rather than an anxiety engram. Our data indicate that these neurons are recruited by stress and their reactivation produces more anxiety related avoidance to open arms. We have revised the text to avoid conceptual overreach and to clarify that SuM SANs likely contribute to a state of sustained anxiety/avoidance.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      Should you choose to revise your manuscript, if you have not already done so, please include full statistical reporting, including exact p-values wherever possible alongside the summary statistics (test statistic and df) and, where appropriate, 95% confidence intervals. These should be reported for all key questions and not only when the p-value is less than 0.05 in the main manuscript.

      Readers would also benefit from noting that the subjects were male in the abstract and discussion of the limitations of the exclusion of females.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We have included the full statistical detail in a separate sheet as Table 1. Also, we have modified the title of the manuscript to reflect the sex of the mice.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In line 211, the authors state, "we recorded neuronal action potentials via multichannel extracellular recording while the mice were moving in the EPM, a traditional type of maze used to test anxiety in rodents,". However, it is unclear what data is presented in the paper, that is, extracellular recordings from SuM in mice on the elevated plus maze.

      We have deleted the description of multichannel recording data in EPM as the data was removed earlier.

      Minor corrections to the text and figures.

      (2) For bar plots, perhaps clarify how the data is presented. For example, in Figure 4, "The data in B, D, E and I-L are presented as the means {plus minus} SEMs," but this does not appear to be plotted as a mean with SEM error bars because the error bars cover all the values.

      Corrected.

      (3) In Figure 5, the white text for EGFP in panel B is very difficult to see.

      Corrected.

      (4) For Figure 5D, it would be helpful to more clearly specify which neurons in SuM were recorded from. Was it SANs or all SuM neurons?

      We did whole-cell recording on all SuM neurons.

      (5) Fos2A-iCreERT2 is mislabeled as "Fos2A-iCreERT" in the methods.

      Corrected.

      (6) The sentence at line 139 "To make sure foot shock induced anxiety won't last until manipulation, we subjected139mice to an acute stress protocol involving foot shocks and then performed the elevated plus140maze (EPM) and elevated zero maze (EZM) tests to evaluate anxiety on days 2 and 7," is unclear as written.

      Thank you for pointing this. We have modified the sentence to make it more clear. “To make sure mice are on similar basal condition while applying chemo-genetic manipulation, we subjected mice to an acute stress protocol involving foot shocks and then performed the elevated plus maze (EPM) and elevated zero maze (EZM) tests to evaluate anxiety on days 2 and 7 (Figure 4 A). The mice that experienced foot shocks showed decreases in the exploration time in the open arms on day 2. However, acute stress-induced anxiety was not detected on day 7 (Figure 4 B), which allow us to compare the reactivation of SANs produced anxiety-like behavior between groups at the same baseline.”

      (7) The details of the viral injections used for ex vivo electrophysiology are not sufficient to understand the experiment and the implications of the data. Which neurons (SANs?) are recorded from, what percent of those had inputs, were the sub-neurons globally labeled or just SANs?

      We performed whole-cell recording on global SuM neurons to show if the projection is innervated by glutamergic neurons in Sub as shown in Figure 5-B that the projection neurons in Sub are exclusively vglut1 expressed. Based on this aim of the experiment, we didn’t keep any neurons that were not response to the light stimulation, therefore can’t calculate the input percent in this case. We have added words to clearly show that we did global SuM neurons in Methods.

      (8) The scale used in Figure 6C renders that data unreadable. 120 to 40% changes in body weight are well beyond the variability in the data.

      We have modified the axis (90 to 110%) to show the body weight change clearer.

      (9) The dose of CNO used, 5 mg/kg, is high, and using lower doses or other DREADD ligands is worth considering.

      Thank you for your valuable comment. We have noticed that people are using relatively lower dose of CNO or other DREADD ligands that are reported much higher affinity and less side-effect. The dose of 5mg/kg was adapted from earlier papers that using DREADD and show no obvious side-effect in mice[17], e.g locomotion (S Figure 2B), in our experiments, so we keep using this dose in this project to make it consistent across different cohorts of experiments. We are switching to DCZ to avoid any potential side-effect of CNO in the following experiments based on this project.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This is a strong manuscript that provides important insights into the role of the supramammillary nucleus (SuM) and its inputs from the ventral subiculum in regulating anxiety. The combination of behavioral, imaging, electrophysiological, and circuit manipulation approaches is impressive, and the distinction the authors propose between anxiety-related and fear-related circuits is conceptually important.

      There are, however, some points that I think need clarification. The authors emphasize that the hippocampus is essential for fear memory recall, yet they do not directly evaluate whether the SuM-hippocampal pathway might contribute differentially to anxiety versus fear memory. Addressing this would help to explain where the dissociation between the two processes arises.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We realized that we didn’t collect enough data to exclude the role of those SANs on memory, especially fear memory, a memory formation bases on strong emotional training as aforementioned. The data and relevant discussion have been removed to avoid misunderstanding and overstatement.

      I am also not fully convinced about the definition of the "stress-activated neurons" (SANs). The overlap across repeated stress exposures is quite modest (around 20%), which suggests that this population may not be strictly stress-specific but rather a dynamic subset that is preferentially, though not exclusively, engaged by stress. Related to this, the use of the term "engram" raises conceptual questions. Since the classic engram refers to an ensemble encoding and recalling a specific memory, it is not obvious whether it is appropriate to apply the term to a neuronal population that appears to represent a persistent emotional state. The authors should consider justifying this choice of terminology more carefully or adopting a different term.

      Thank you for your important comments. Yes we agree that the SANs in this manuscript are more likely dynamic subset other than exclusive foot-stress engaged “engram”. That’s why we use “stress-activated neurons” but not “engram” to describe this neuronal ensemble. To avoid further misleading, we have made some modification to reduce the use of “engram” across the manuscript.

      Some parts of the text also need more precision. For example, the statement in lines 63-65 that "few studies have explored emotion-related engram cells" is potentially misleading, as most engram studies focus on memories with a strong emotional component. The rationale for this claim should be clarified.

      This sentence has been deleted since it is not necessary to link the text and misleading.

      In Figure 1, the choice of methods is also puzzling: cFos immunostaining is used after shock delivery, while electrophysiology is used for the CSDS paradigm. It would be helpful to explain why different readouts were chosen for different stress models, and whether this may affect the comparability of the results.

      Thank you for this important comment. In Figure 1, we aimed to demonstrate that both acute (foot shock) and chronic (CSDS) stressors can activate SuM neurons, using complementary methods (cFos for acute, in vivo recording for chronic). The reason we chose different method is that acute stress produces transit effect while chronic stress produces long-lasting effect. To our knowledge, cFos is a well-established marker for strong neuronal activation, but with short lifespan (~4-6 hours) and suits acute paradigm better. In vivo recording allows us to compare the neuronal activity before and after chronic experiments within subjects and has ability to reveal cumulative effect which cFos cannot. To address this, we have clarified in the text that the purpose of Figure 1 in Line 112-113: “To investigate if SuM would be responsive to diverse stressors, we next examined whether chronic stress, which different mechanism underlying…”

      Finally, some additional details would strengthen the presentation. The discussion of corticosterone and other physiological markers could be expanded to indicate whether these effects were robust across stress paradigms. Similarly, the relatively modest overlap between SANs activated by different stressors could be framed more explicitly as part of a broader principle of flexible ensemble recruitment in anxiety-related circuits.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have added more discussion about the corticosterone and the flexibility of SANs in the manuscript. See Line 267-270: “The serum corticosterone concentration can be used as a marker of stress-induced change in the peripheral blood. Previous studies showed serum corticosterone can be increased by various stress stimulation [39–42]; meanwhile, intentionally supplementing the diet with corticosterone can induce anxiety-like behaviors in rodents[43].” and Line 275-281: “However, the reactivation rate of SANs caused by different stressor was relatively lower than the initial activation rate caused by foot shock (Figure 3). This suggests that stress-activated neuronal clusters may have more flexible recruitment principles, with only a small number of neurons potentially encoding emotional information, while most other neurons remain involved in encoding other neural activities. Studies in other field, particularly studies of memory engram, has shown that the sets of neurons activated during learning are dynamic and exhibit high flexibility [44, 45].”

      Overall, the work is of high quality and provides a valuable contribution to the field, but addressing these points would help sharpen the mechanistic claims and ensure that the conceptual framework is as clear and precise as the experimental data.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Since increased SuM activity is hypothesized to mediate the effects of stress on anxiety-like behavior, a logical step would be to test for necessity by silencing the stress-activated SuM cells.

      We agree this is a logical and valuable experiment. While our current study focused primarily on the sufficiency of SuM/SAN activation to induce anxiety-like behavior, we acknowledge that inhibition experiments would provide critical complementary evidence for necessity. We have added a statement in the Discussion noting that “future studies should examine whether silencing SuM SANs, either during stress exposure or during anxiety testing, can prevent or reduce stress-induced anxiety”. This will help establish a more complete causal role.

      (2) Discuss what is meant by "anxiety engram" and what features of anxiety the labeled cells might encode.

      We concur that “stress-activated neuron (SAN)” is a more precise descriptor than “engram” in this context. We have revised the text to avoid the potentially misleading term “engram” and instead refer to a “stress-activated neuron”. The labeled cells are preferentially reactivated by stress (not reward), and their activation promotes both behavioral avoidance and physiological stress markers (corticosterone). They likely contribute to the maintenance of an anxious state under perceived threat, rather than encoding discrete threat cues or memories.

      (3) A more nuanced analysis of behavioral correlates of SuM activity and/or the behavioral effects of SuM manipulations would strengthen this paper.

      To provide a more nuanced understanding of the behavioral correlates, we have performed additional analyses on our fiber photometry data (now presented in Supplemental Figure 6). and have also planned additional experiments for the future study to deepen our understanding.

      References:

      (1) Jendryka M, Palchaudhuri M, Ursu D, van der Veen B, Liss B, Kätzel D, et al. Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic actions of clozapine-N-oxide, clozapine, and compound 21 in DREADD-based chemogenetics in mice. Sci Rep. 2019;9.

      (2) Koike H, Demars MP, Short JA, Nabel EM, Akbarian S, Baxter MG, et al. Chemogenetic Inactivation of Dorsal Anterior Cingulate Cortex Neurons Disrupts Attentional Behavior in Mouse. Neuropsychopharmacology. 2016;41:1014–1023.

      (3) Guettier J-M, Gautam D, Scarselli M, Ruiz De Azua I, Li JH, Rosemond E, et al. A chemical-genetic approach to study G protein regulation of cell function in vivo. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 2009;106:19197–19202.

      (4) Wess J, Nakajima K, Jain S. Novel designer receptors to probe GPCR signaling and physiology. Trends Pharmacol Sci. 2013;34:385–392.

      (5) Kraeuter AK, Guest PC, Sarnyai Z. The Elevated Plus Maze Test for Measuring Anxiety-Like Behavior in Rodents. Methods in Molecular Biology, vol. 1916, Humana Press Inc.; 2019. p. 69–74.

      (6) Kraeuter AK, Guest PC, Sarnyai Z. The Open Field Test for Measuring Locomotor Activity and Anxiety-Like Behavior. Methods in Molecular Biology, vol. 1916, Humana Press Inc.; 2019. p. 99–103.

      (7) Wall PM, Messier C. Methodological and conceptual issues in the use of the elevated plus-maze as a psychological measurement instrument of animal anxiety-like behavior. Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2001;25:275–286.

      (8) Carobrez AP, Bertoglio LJ. Ethological and temporal analyses of anxiety-like behavior: The elevated plus-maze model 20 years on. Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2005;29:1193–1205.

      (9) Seibenhener ML, Wooten MC. Use of the open field maze to measure locomotor and anxiety-like behavior in mice. Journal of Visualized Experiments. 2015. 6 February 2015. https://doi.org/10.3791/52434.

      (10) Prut L, Belzung C. The open field as a paradigm to measure the effects of drugs on anxiety-like behaviors: A review. Eur J Pharmacol. 2003;463:3–33.

      (11) Chen Y, Zhou X, Chu B, Xie Q, Liu Z, Luo D, et al. Restraint Stress, Foot Shock and Corticosterone Differentially Alter Autophagy in the Rat Hippocampus, Basolateral Amygdala and Prefrontal Cortex. Neurochem Res. 2024;49:492–506.

      (12) Hassell JE, Nguyen KT, Gates CA, Lowry CA. The Impact of Stressor Exposure and Glucocorticoids on Anxiety and Fear. Curr. Top. Behav. Neurosci., vol. 43, Springer; 2019. p. 271–321.

      (13) Peng B, Xu Q, Liu J, Guo S, Borgland SL, Liu S. Corticosterone attenuates reward-seeking behavior and increases anxiety via D2 receptor signaling in ventral tegmental area dopamine neurons. Journal of Neuroscience. 2021;41:1566–1581.

      (14) Myers B, Greenwood-Van Meerveld B. Elevated corticosterone in the amygdala leads to persistant increases in anxiety-like behavior and pain sensitivity. Behavioural Brain Research. 2010;214:465–469.

      (15) Demuyser T, Deneyer L, Bentea E, Albertini G, Van Liefferinge J, Merckx E, et al. In-depth behavioral characterization of the corticosterone mouse model and the critical involvement of housing conditions. Physiol Behav. 2016;156:199–207.

      (16) Shoji H, Maeda Y, Miyakawa T. Chronic corticosterone exposure causes anxiety- and depression-related behaviors with altered gut microbial and brain metabolomic profiles in adult male C57BL/6J mice. Molecular Brain . 2024;17.

      (17) Manvich DF, Webster KA, Foster SL, Farrell MS, Ritchie JC, Porter JH, et al. The DREADD agonist clozapine N-oxide (CNO) is reverse-metabolized to clozapine and produces clozapine-like interoceptive stimulus effects in rats and mice. Sci Rep. 2018;8.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This structural biology study provides insights into the assembly of the GID/CTLH E3 ligase complex. The multi-subunit complex forms unique, ring-shaped assemblies and the findings presented here describe a "specificity code" that regulates formation of subunit interfaces. The data supporting the conclusions are convincing, both in thoroughness and rigor. This study will be valuable to biochemists, structural biologists, and could lay foundation for novel designed protein assemblies.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      GID/CTLH-type RING ligases are huge multi-protein complexes that play an important role in protein ubiquitylation. The subunits of its core complex are distinct and form a defined structural arrangement, but there can be variations in subunit composition, such as exchange of RanBP9 and RanBP10. In this study, van gen Hassend and Schindelin provide new crystal structures of (parts of) key subunits and use those structures to elucidate the molecular details of the pairwise binding between those subunits. They identify key residues that mediate binding partner specificity. Using in vitro binding assays with purified protein, they show that altering those residues can switch specificity to a different binding partner.

      Strengths:

      This is a technically demanding study that sheds light on an interesting structural biology problem in residue-level detail. The combination of crystallization, structural modeling and binding assays with purified mutant proteins is elegant and, in my eyes, convincing.

      Weaknesses:

      This study has no major weaknesses.

      It will be very interesting to see follow-up studies that use the mutants generated here to dive deeper into the biology of RING ligases, or design new mutants of multi-subunit complexes with an analogous methodology.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is a very interesting study focusing on a remarkable oligomerization domain, the LisH-CTLH-CRA module. The module is found in a diverse set of proteins across evolution. The present manuscript focuses on the extraordinary elaboration of this domain in GID/CTLH RING E3 ubiquitin ligases, which assemble into a gigantic, highly ordered, oval-shaped megadalton complex with strict subunit specificity. The arrangement of LisH-CTLH-CRA modules from several distinct subunits is required to form the oval on the outside of the assembly, allowing functional entities to recruit and modify substrates in the center. Although previous structures had shown that data revealed that CTLH-CRA dimerization interfaces share a conserved helical architecture, the molecular rules that govern subunit pairing have not been explored. This was a daunting task in protein biochemistry that was achieved in the present study, which defines this "assembly specificity code" at the structural and residue-specific level.<br /> The authors used X-ray crystallography to solve high-resolution structures of mammalian CTLH-CRA domains, including RANBP9, RANBP10, TWA1, MAEA, and the heterodimeric complex between RANBP9 and MKLN. They further examined and characterized assemblies by quantitative methods (ITC and SEC-MALS) and qualitatively using nondenaturing gels. Some of their ITC measurements were particularly clever, and involved competitive titrations, and titrations of varying partners depending on protein behavior. The experiments allowed the authors to discover that affinities for interactions between partners is exceptionally tight, in the pM-nM range, and to distill the basis for specificity while also inferring that additional interactions beyond the LisH-CTLH-CRA modules likely also contribute to stability. Beyond discovering how the native pairings are achieved, the authors were able to use this new structural knowledge to reengineer interfaces to achieve different preferred partnerings.

      Strengths:

      Nearly everything about this work is exceptionally strong.<br /> -The question is interesting for the native complexes, and even beyond that has potential implications for design of novel molecular machines.<br /> -The experimental data and analyses are quantitative, rigorous, and thorough.<br /> -The paper is a great read - scholarly and really interesting.<br /> -The figures are exceptional in every possible way. They present very complex and intricate interactions with exquisite clarity. The authors are to be commended for outstanding use of color and color-coding throughout the study, including in cartoons to help track what was studied in what experiments. And the figures are also outstanding aesthetically.

      Weaknesses:

      There are no major weaknesses of note, and in the revision the authors addressed my minor suggestions for the text.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Protein complexes, like the GID/CTLH-type E3 ligase, adopt a complex three-dimensional structure, which is of functional importance. Several domains are known to be involved in shaping the complexes. Structural information based on cryo-EM is available, but its resolution does not always provide detailed information on protein-protein interactions. The work by van gen Hassend and Schindelin provides additional structural data based on crystal structures.

      Strengths:

      The work is solid and very carefully performed. It provides high-resolution insights into the domain architecture, which helps to understand the protein-protein interactions on a detailed molecular level. They also include mutant data and can thereby draw conclusions on the specificity of the domain interactions. These data are probably very helpful for others who work on a functional level with protein complexes containing these domains.

      Weaknesses:

      The manuscript contains a lot of useful, very detailed information. This information is likely very helpful to investigate functional and regulatory aspects of the protein complexes, whose assembly relies on the LisH-CTLH-CRA modules. However, this goes beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      Comments on revisions:

      I am fine with the revised version of the manuscript.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      GID/CTLH-type RING ligases are huge multi-protein complexes that play an important role in protein ubiquitylation. The subunits of its core complex are distinct and form a defined structural arrangement, but there can be variations in subunit composition, such as exchange of RanBP9 and RanBP10. In this study, van gen Hassend and Schindelin provide new crystal structures of (parts of) key subunits and use those structures to elucidate the molecular details of the pairwise binding between those subunits. They identify key residues that mediate binding partner specificity. Using in vitro binding assays with purified protein, they show that altering those residues can switch specificity to a different binding partner.

      Strengths:

      This is a technically demanding study that sheds light on an interesting structural biology problem in residue-level detail. The combination of crystallization, structural modeling, and binding assays with purified mutant proteins is elegant and, in my eyes, convincing.

      Weaknesses:

      I mainly have some suggestions for further clarification, especially for a broad audience beyond the structural biology community.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful evaluation of our manuscript and for the positive and encouraging assessment of our work. We also thank the reviewer for the constructive suggestions to improve clarity for a broader audience and have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      (1) The authors establish what they call an 'engineering toolkit' for the controlled assembly of alternative compositions of the GID complex. The mutagenesis results are great for the specific questions asked in this manuscript. It would be great if they could elaborate on the more general significance of this 'toolkit' - is there anything from a technical point of view that can be generalized? Is there a biological interest in altering the ring composition for functional studies?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. Beyond addressing the specific pairwise assembly mechanisms analyzed in this study, we agree that the broader significance of this engineering toolkit warrants further discussion. The residue-level understanding of CTLH-CRA interfaces not only explains assembly specificity but also enables rational manipulation of ring composition in a controlled manner. We have therefore expanded the end of the discussion section to outline generalizable strategies for CRA-interface disruption and to highlight potential biological applications of altering ring composition for functional studies.

      (2) Along the same lines, the mutagenesis required to rewire Twa1 binding was very complex (8 mutations). While this is impressive work, the 'big picture conclusion' from this part is not as clear as for the simpler RanBP9/10. It would be great if the authors could provide more context as to what this is useful for (e.g., potential for in vivo or in vitro functional studies, maybe even with clinical significance?)

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment and agree that the broader implications of the more complex Twa1 rewiring were not sufficiently emphasized in the original manuscript. Through the competition ITC experiments (Fig. 5), we aimed to demonstrate a concrete application of the Twa1. At the same time, we recognize that additional use cases are conceivable. To address this point, we have expanded the discussion section to clarify the conceptual significance of Twa1 rewiring and briefly outline further potential applications of controlled interface manipulation. These additions aim to better contextualize the broader relevance of this approach beyond the specific mechanistic questions addressed in this study.

      (3) For many new crystal structures, the authors used truncated, fused, or otherwise modified versions of the proteins for technical reasons. It would be helpful if the authors could provide reasoning why those modifications are unlikely to change the conclusions of those experiments compared to the full-length proteins (which are challenging to work with for technical reasons). For instance, could the authors use folding prediction (AlphaFold) that incorporates information of their resolved structures and predicts the impact of the omitted parts of the proteins? The authors used AlphaFold for some aspects of the study, which could be expanded.

      We agree with the reviewer that the transferability of the domain constructs to the corresponding full-length proteins is an important consideration. In the original version of the manuscript, we addressed this point by fitting the experimentally determined CTLH-CRA domain structures of muskelin and RanBP9 into the cryo-EM maps of the full-length complexes (Fig. 5d), demonstrating that the applied truncations and fusion strategies are compatible with the architecture observed in the intact assembly. Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we have further strengthened this analysis by adding a new Supplementary Figure 1. In this figure, the experimentally determined CTLH-CRA domain structures are superposed with full-length AlphaFold predictions. This comparison shows that removal of flexible linker regions, such as those between the CTLH and CRA motifs or at terminal segments, does not alter the overall fold or the binding interfaces of the domains. Together, these analyses support the conclusion that the domain constructs faithfully represent the structural and interaction properties of the full-length proteins.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is a very interesting study focusing on a remarkable oligomerization domain, the LisH-CTLH-CRA module. The module is found in a diverse set of proteins across evolution. The present manuscript focuses on the extraordinary elaboration of this domain in GID/CTLH RING E3 ubiquitin ligases, which assemble into a gigantic, highly ordered, oval-shaped megadalton complex with strict subunit specificity. The arrangement of LisH-CTLHCRA modules from several distinct subunits is required to form the oval on the outside of the assembly, allowing functional entities to recruit and modify substrates in the center. Although previous structures had shown that data revealed that CTLH-CRA dimerization interfaces share a conserved helical architecture, the molecular rules that govern subunit pairing have not been explored. This was a daunting task in protein biochemistry that was achieved in the present study, which defines this "assembly specificity code" at the structural and residue-specific level.

      The authors used X-ray crystallography to solve high-resolution structures of mammalian CTLH-CRA domains, including RANBP9, RANBP10, TWA1, MAEA, and the heterodimeric complex between RANBP9 and MKLN. They further examined and characterized assemblies by quantitative methods (ITC and SEC-MALS) and qualitatively using nondenaturing gels. Some of their ITC measurements were particularly clever and involved competitive titrations and titrations of varying partners depending on protein behavior. The experiments allowed the authors to discover that affinities for interactions between partners is exceptionally tight, in the pM-nM range, and to distill the basis for specificity while also inferring that additional interactions beyond the LisH-CTLH-CRA modules likely also contribute to stability. Beyond discovering how the native pairings are achieved, the authors were able to use this new structural knowledge to reengineer interfaces to achieve different preferred partnerings.

      Strengths:

      Nearly everything about this work is exceptionally strong.

      (1) The question is interesting for the native complexes, and even beyond that, has potential implications for the design of novel molecular machines.

      (2) The experimental data and analyses are quantitative, rigorous, and thorough.

      (3) The paper is a great read - scholarly and really interesting.

      (4) The figures are exceptional in every possible way. They present very complex and intricate interactions with exquisite clarity. The authors are to be commended for outstanding use of color and color-coding throughout the study, including in cartoons to help track what was studied in what experiments. And the figures are also outstanding aesthetically.

      Weaknesses:

      There are no major weaknesses of note, but I can make a few recommendations for editing the text.

      We are very grateful to the reviewer for this exceptionally positive and thoughtful assessment of our work. We sincerely appreciate the recognition of both the conceptual scope and the technical depth of the study. We are particularly encouraged by the reviewer’s comments regarding the clarity and presentation of the figures. Considerable effort went into ensuring that the structural and biochemical complexity of the CTLH assemblies could be conveyed in a clear and accessible manner, and we are grateful that this was appreciated. We thank the reviewer for the constructive recommendations for textual improvements.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Protein complexes, like the GID/CTLH-type E3 ligase, adopt a complex three-dimensional structure, which is of functional importance. Several domains are known to be involved in shaping the complexes. Structural information based on cryo-EM is available, but its resolution does not always provide detailed information on protein-protein interactions. The work by van gen Hassend and Schindelin provides additional structural data based on crystal structures.

      Strengths:

      The work is solid and very carefully performed. It provides high-resolution insights into the domain architecture, which helps to understand the protein-protein interactions on a detailed molecular level. They also include mutant data and can thereby draw conclusions on the specificity of the domain interactions. These data are probably very helpful for others who work on a functional level with protein complexes containing these domains.

      Weaknesses:

      The manuscript contains a lot of useful, very detailed information. This information is likely very helpful to investigate functional and regulatory aspects of the protein complexes, whose assembly relies on the LisH-CTLHCRA modules. However, this goes beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed review of our manuscript and for the constructive and positive remarks. We greatly appreciate the recognition of the high-resolution structural insights and the value of combining crystallographic data with mutational analyses to elucidate domain-specific interactions. We are also grateful for the acknowledgment that these findings may serve as a useful resource for future functional and regulatory studies of LisH-CTLH-CRA-containing complexes. While such aspects extend beyond the immediate scope of the present study, we hope that the structural framework provided here will facilitate and inspire future investigations addressing these questions.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) For the ITC measurements that are less accurate, the authors may want to represent that in the figures with an approximate sign.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. After consideration, we decided not to introduce an approximate sign in the main figures, as this would be inconsistent with the graphical conventions used throughout the manuscript (there is also no equal sign). Since the associated errors are reported directly alongside each K<sub>D</sub> value, we believe that the precision of the measurements is sufficiently conveyed. However, we agree that explicitly marking estimated values can be appropriate in specific cases. We have therefore added approximate signs in Supplementary Fig. 5 for the K<sub>D</sub> estimation of self-association.

      (2) The names of the proteins are from mammals and should probably be capitalized.

      We agree that capitalization is generally appropriate for mammalian protein names. In particular, for proteins such as Rmnd5a, which is identical in sequence between mouse and human, the use of human-style nomenclature would indeed be fully justified. Originally, we chose the current nomenclature to distinguish the proteins studied here from strictly human versions, as most constructs are derived from mouse and one (muskelin) from rat. This approach also avoids inconsistencies between the mouse and rat proteins within the manuscript and maintains alignment with the nomenclature used in our previous publications. For the sake of consistency and continuity, we have therefore retained the original formatting throughout the manuscript.

      (3) For the sequence alignments, it would be good to specify in the legend which organisms these are from, and where the differences are in mouse and rat proteins used in the study, and the human proteins.

      We appreciate this constructive suggestion. We have revised the sequence alignment legends to clearly specify the organism of origin for each sequence included in the analysis. In addition, we have added a new Supplementary Figure 1 presenting the AlphaFold predictions of the mouse proteins and rat muskelin used in this study. Within these models, sequence differences relative to the human proteins are indicated, and variations within the CTLH-CRA domains are explicitly annotated. These additions clarify how the constructs analyzed here relate to their human counterparts.

      (4) A few points about the referencing:

      (a) It was reference 27 that first described the dual-sided interactions where the CRA domain weaves back and forth such that CTLH-CRAN and LisH-CRAC mediate the contacts on the two sides. This should be cited.

      We fully agree and added the reference accordingly.

      (b) To this reviewer's knowledge, it was references 13 and 9 that resolved the daisy-chain of helical LisH-CTLHCRA interactions around the oval helical structures.

      We agree with the reviewer that references 13 and 9 resolved the helical LisH-CTLH-CRA daisy-chain arrangement around the oval structure. Reference 13 was already cited in the original manuscript, and we have now added reference 9 to appropriately acknowledge this contribution. We have retained reference 14, although it did not resolve the helical daisy-chain architecture, as it described a related oval assembly of CTLH complex components that remains relevant in the structural context discussed.

      (c) A cryo-EM map with RANBP10 was shown at low resolution in reference 8.

      We agree with the reviewer that a low-resolution cryo-EM map including RANBP10 was reported in reference 8. Our original wording was not sufficiently precise and may have given the impression that RANBP10 had not been characterized. Our intention was to convey that, although cryo-EM maps exist, detailed atomic-level information on subunit interfaces was lacking. We have revised the paragraph accordingly to clarify this point and now cite reference 8 explicitly in this context.

      (d) The Discussion requires referencing.

      We agree with the reviewer that additional referencing improves the clarity and contextualization of the Discussion. We have revised the Discussion section accordingly and added appropriate references to support the statements made.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study presents a valuable contribution by introducing a model-based, Bayesian method for inferring action potentials from calcium imaging data that directly quantifies uncertainty in spike timing through posterior distributions. Using a Monte Carlo particle Gibbs sampling approach, the method achieves temporal resolution and accuracy comparable to existing techniques while offering the key added benefit of principled uncertainty estimates. The underlying methodology and characterization are convincing, and the work will be of particular interest to theoretically oriented neuroscientists seeking rigorous new tools for data-driven parameter inference.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Diana et al. present a Monte Carlo-based method to perform spike inference from calcium imaging data. A particular strength of their approach is that they can estimate not only averages but also uncertainties of the modeled process. The authors focus on the quantification of spike time uncertainties in simulated data and in data recorded with high sampling rate in cebellar slices with GCaMP8f, and they demonstrate the high temporal precision that can be achieved with their method to estimate spike timing.

      Strengths:

      - The author provide a solid ground work for sequential Monte Carlo-based spike inference, which extends previous work of Pnevmatikakis et al., Greenberg et al. and others.

      - The integration of two states (silence vs. burst firing) seems to improve the performance of the model.

      - The acquisition of a GCaMP8f dataset in cerebellum is useful and helps make the point that high spike time inference precision is possible under certain conditions.

      Weaknesses:

      - Although the algorithm is compared (in the revised manuscript) to other models to infer individual spikes (e.g., MLSpike), these comparisons could be more comprehensive. Future work that benchmarks this and other algorithms under varying conditions (e.g., noise levels, temporal resolution, calcium indicators) would help assess and confirm robustness and useability of this algorithm.

      - The mathematical complexity underlying the method may pose challenges for experimentalist who may want to use the methods for their analyses. While this is not a weakness of the approach itself, this highlights the need for further validation and benchmarking in future work, to build user confidence.

      Comments on revisions:

      Thank you for addressing the final comments, and congrats on this study!

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Methods to infer action potentials from fluorescence-based measurements of intracellular calcium dynamics are important for optical measurements of activity across large populations of neurons. The variety of existing methods can be separated into two broad classes: a) model-independent approaches that are trained on ground truth datasets (e.g., deep networks), and b) approaches based on a model of the processes that link action potentials to calcium signals. Models usually contains parameters describing biophysical variables, such as rate constants of the calcium dynamics and features of the calcium indicator. The method presented here, PGBAR, is model-based and uses a Bayesian approach. A novelty of PGBAR is that static parameters and state variables are jointly estimated using particle Gibbs sampling, a sequential Monte Carlo technique that can efficiently sample the latent embedding space.

      Strengths:

      A main strength of PGBAR is that it provides probability distributions rather than point estimates of spike times. This is different from most other methods and may be an important feature in cases when estimates of uncertainty are desired. Another important feature of PGBAR is that it estimates not only the state variable representing spiking activity, but also other variables such as baseline fluctuations and stationary model variables, in a joint process. PGBAR can therefore provide more information than various other methods. The information in the github repository is well-organized. The authors demonstrate convincingly that PGBAR can resolve inter-spike intervals in the range of 5 ms using fluorescence data obtained with a very fast genetically encoded calcium indicator at very high sampling rates (line scans at >= 1 kHz).

      Weaknesses:

      The accuracy of spike train reconstructions is not higher than that of other model-based approaches, and lower than the accuracy of a model-independent approach based on a deep network in a regime of commonly used acquisition rates.

      Comments on revisions:

      I have no further comments on the manuscript.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Diana et al. present a Monte Carlo-based method to perform spike inference from calcium imaging data. A particular strength of their approach is that they can estimate not only averages but also uncertainties of the modeled process. The authors focus on the quantification of spike time uncertainties in simulated data and in data recorded with high sampling rate in cebellar slices with GCaMP8f, and they demonstrate the high temporal precision that can be achieved with their method to estimate spike timing.

      Strengths:

      - The author provide a solid ground work for sequential Monte Carlo-based spike inference, which extends previous work of Pnevmatikakis et al., Greenberg et al. and others.

      - The integration of two states (silence vs. burst firing) seems to improve the performance of the model.

      - The acquisition of a GCaMP8f dataset in cerebellum is useful and helps make the point that high spike time inference precision is possible under certain conditions.

      Weaknesses:

      - Although the algorithm is compared (in the revised manuscript) to other models to infer individual spikes (e.g., MLSpike), these comparisons could be more comprehensive. Future work that benchmarks this and other algorithms under varying conditions (e.g., noise levels, temporal resolution, calcium indicators) would help assess and confirm robustness and useability of this algorithm.

      The metrics used for comparison follow the field's benchmarking conventions (see the CASCADE paper, Rupprecht et al. 2021). Indeed, improved standardized methods would be ideal to develop, which is beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      - The mathematical complexity underlying the method may pose challenges for experimentalist who may want to use the methods for their analyses. While this is not a weakness of the approach itself, this highlights the need for further validation and benchmarking in future work, to build user confidence.

      We acknowledge the challenges of understanding the mathematics underlying our method, but such a study is necessary to ensure its accuracy and reliability. Indeed, we will strive to improve the technique's user-friendliness in future instantiations.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Methods to infer action potentials from fluorescence-based measurements of intracellular calcium dynamics are important for optical measurements of activity across large populations of neurons. The variety of existing methods can be separated into two broad classes: a) model-independent approaches that are trained on ground truth datasets (e.g., deep networks), and b) approaches based on a model of the processes that link action potentials to calcium signals. Models usually contains parameters describing biophysical variables, such as rate constants of the calcium dynamics and features of the calcium indicator. The method presented here, PGBAR, is model-based and uses a Bayesian approach. A novelty of PGBAR is that static parameters and state variables are jointly estimated using particle Gibbs sampling, a sequential Monte Carlo technique that can efficiently sample the latent embedding space.

      Strengths:

      A main strength of PGBAR is that it provides probability distributions rather than point estimates of spike times. This is different from most other methods and may be an important feature in cases when estimates of uncertainty are desired. Another important feature of PGBAR is that it estimates not only the state variable representing spiking activity, but also other variables such as baseline fluctuations and stationary model variables, in a joint process. PGBAR can therefore provide more information than various other methods. The information in the github repository is well-organized.

      Weaknesses:

      On the other hand, the accuracy of spike train reconstructions is not higher than that of other model-based approaches, and clearly lower than the accuracy of a model-independent approach based on a deep network. The authors demonstrate convincingly that PGBAR can resolve inter-spike intervals in the range of 5 ms using fluorescence data obtained with a very fast genetically encoded calcium indicator at very high sampling rates (line scans at >= 1 kHz).

      In the revision, Figure 9 shows that temporal accuracy is very similar between PGBAR and the supervised method, CASCADE, and that PGBAR has a lower false positive rate. These results support the effectiveness of unsupervised Monte Carlo sampling, even with a simple autoregressive model.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I'd like to thank the authors for their revisions. Their comments have addressed all my concerns, and I thank them for the clarifications. I have no further comments, except a few minor notes that the authors may consider or not:

      - The paragraph starting in line 367 is newly written and not yet as clear and mature as other parts of the manuscript. It is at several sentences roughly clear what it is about, but the precision of the wording is lacking. For example "distributions of the average time from ground-truth" seems a bit unclear, maybe "distributions of the average time of estimate spikes from ground-truth spikes" instead. Similarly, "the false detection rate, defined as the difference between detected and ground-truth spikes ..." could be rephrased using the difference between "numbers of spikes" instead of the difference between "spikes". But all of this is minor.

      - In the new Figure 9A, the error bars for the MLSpike method seem to be absent. In the same figure legend, it should be "excess" instead of "excess".

      We thank the reviewer for the feedback. We revised the wording of the new paragraph in response to the reviewer’s suggestions, restored the missing error bar in Figure 9, and corrected the figure legend.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Comparison to CASCADE: as far as I know there are no CASCADE models that have been trained on ground truth data in the regime of very fast (line scan) sampling, which is rarely used. A fair comparison of spike time estimates between PGBAR and CASCADE should take this into account. This can be done by training a new CASCADE model using the dataset of this paper. Given that performance of PGBAR and CASCADE is very similar already now (except for the false positive rate), a CASCADE model optimized for high sampling rate may be expected to catch up with (or even exceed) the performance of PGBAR. At a minimum, this possibility should be discussed.

      While this may be true, retraining a CASCADE model on high-frequency ground-truth data is beyond the scope of this manuscript. Indeed, a retrained CASCADE model optimized for line-scan or GCaMP8f data could improve performance and potentially match or exceed PGBAR, particularly in reducing false positives.

      Our aim, however, is not to benchmark supervised methods under their optimal retraining conditions, but to provide an unsupervised alternative that does not rely on labeled training data. In practice, retraining supervised models is constrained by the availability of suitable ground-truth datasets and by the uncertainty in how the method generalizes to acquisition regimes that differ substantially from the training set.

      We have therefore added a sentence in the Discussion (at the end of the subsection Comparison with benchmark datasets):

      [...] “While retraining supervised methods such as CASCADE on high-frequency or GCaMP8f ground-truth datasets could further improve its performance, limitations in dataset availability and generalization across acquisition regimes motivate complementary, training-free approaches such as PGBAR.”

      As stated in the manuscript, future extensions, such as using nonlinear biophysical models as the generative model for Monte Carlo–based inference, may further improve spike estimation accuracy.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study presents a well-executed investigation into how the olfactory system disconnects from the environment during sleep and anesthesia, identifying a potential gating mechanism at the earliest synaptic stages of the olfactory bulb. The findings are important, as they challenge current theories by demonstrating that sensory gating occurs in non-thalamic pathways even under controlled airflow conditions. The strength of evidence is solid, supported by rigorous multimodal recordings, although the reliance on anesthetic models to draw conclusions about natural sleep is a limitation that requires further contextualization.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors of Serantes et al. produced a well-designed set of experiments to address the mechanisms of olfactory disconnection during sleep. In contrast to other sensory modalities, olfaction is not filtered or potentially gated by the thalamus, potentially opening the door to unimodal sensory stimulation during sleep. Recent work (Schreck, 2022) used optogenetically activated Olfactory Sensory Neurons to show that local field potential and activity across the olfactory pathway, not only remained open during sleep but were potentially even accentuated under these brain states. However, their optogenetic manipulation is an artificial perturbation to the system that could override naturalistic early-gating mechanisms. In a set of careful experiments, Serantes et al. show that coupling between airflow and brain activity at the Olfactory Bulb is diminished under sleep and anesthetic brain states. In contrast to a peripheral gating mechanism proposed by Schreck, this lack of respiration-locked activity, measured with EEG and LFP, persists even in the presence of intense respiration and even when nasal airflow is artificially induced and controlled. Their results point to nonthalamic early sensory gating of olfactory information during sleep, which is independent of nasal airflow but dependent on internal brain states. Their work elicits questions about potentially undiscovered mechanisms at the level of the early sensory pathway.

      Strengths:

      The strengths of this paper lie in the level of control afforded by the multiple preps and the wide array of physiological recordings. Specifically, both their control of airflow with a dual tracheotomy and their control of internal states using both sleep and urethane anaesthesia have a cumulative impact on the results.

      The paper is simple, well-written, well executed, has clear questions, describes the literature comprehensively, and points out conflicting results with precision and transparency. The same transparency and judgment should be used on their own results.

      Another strength of the paper is the clear, unambiguous results. The effect sizes presented in the paper are sizable and convincing.

      Weaknesses:

      The paper's shortcomings include open questions and a lack of a full mechanistic understanding of the suggested internal gating process. There are some open questions about the relative importance of airflow sensing vs. odorant sensing. Recent work by Mahajan et al., Sci.Adv 2025 points to OSN as sensing both odorants and airflow to produce anemotaxis. Potentially, other cells could contribute to anemosensation as well, so that gated or non-gated information might depend on the ratio of airflow to odorant information. Perhaps, optogenetic stimulation of OSN acts as an unnatural sensory stimulation that can alter both olfaction and anemosensation.

      Detailed ablation, pharmacological, and optogenetic experiments may be needed to elucidate the suggested mechanisms and determine the correct answer to the question posed by the authors.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Serantes and colleagues analysed how sleep and anesthesia impact the processing of olfactory inputs, focusing on early sensory processing (occurring at the first or second synaptic contacts). First, they show that the transition to sleep has a major impact on breathing-dependent gamma activity. Second, they show that this decrease originates at the first synaptic contact and is independent of respiration itself. Third, they show a decrease in connectivity associated with neocortical slow waves. These results are very interesting and supported by a robust methodology. However, I have two major concerns regarding this work.

      First, the authors fail to adequately contextualize their work. For example, the impact of sleep on respiration-locked gamma activity was reported several years ago and is, in fact, used in some laboratories to score sleep using data from the olfactory bulb.

      Second, the authors should exercise much more caution when comparing the urethane anesthesia model with NREM/REM sleep cycles. There are very significant differences between the two. Yet, the title and abstract of the article mention only sleep and anesthesia. More concerningly, the results obtained under urethane anesthesia are uncritically generalized to sleep.

      In conclusion, the first finding was already shown in previous studies, and the second and third results were obtained not during sleep but during an anesthetic state that only resembles certain aspects of sleep.

      Strengths:

      The authors deploy an interventional approach that allows them to determine with compelling evidence the relationship of the gamma activity time-locked to breathing and different aspects of breathing, proving in particular that the disconnection is independent of respiratory dynamics. They leveraged invasive recordings that allow them to pinpoint at which level the disconnection occurs.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) My first comment concerns how this work fits within the state of the art. The introduction of the article leaves out very important and highly relevant work.

      (1a) First, "disconnection" is not a defining feature of sleep; "unresponsiveness" is. It is often assumed that this unresponsiveness (which can be directly measured, contrary to disconnection) is due to a form of disconnection, but there has been substantial work over the past decade showing that disconnection is not as extensive as initially expected. It is therefore incorrect, in my view, to state that "most models attribute sensory gating to thalamocortical mechanisms". Most models attribute sensory gating to a combination of thalamocortical and cortical mechanisms.

      (1b) The rationale of the article appears unclear ("the olfactory system-bypassing the thalamus-offers a unique window into earlier stages of sensory disconnection"). If the idea is to investigate gating mechanisms before the thalamus, then any sensory modality would suffice, since even modalities that later relay through the thalamus involve pre-thalamic processing stages. I assume that the authors instead mean that, because olfactory information does not relay through the thalamus, gating mechanisms in the olfactory stream could occur very early. However, this also implies that focusing on olfactory processing would say little about other sensory modalities.

      (1c) Key previous results have been completely overlooked. First, the impact of sleep on respiration-locked gamma activity was reported several years ago (Bagur et al., Plos Biology 2018). Second, important articles investigating olfactory processing during sleep have been overlooked (e.g., Arzi et al., Nature Neuroscience 2012; Arzi et al., Journal of Neuroscience 2014). I am not providing an exhaustive list here, but these articles are not only extremely relevant to the present study; they have also become classics in the sleep literature.

      (2) For most of their findings (Figures 2 to 5), the authors used urethane anesthesia. They show that this pharmacological manipulation results in alternation between periods of high-amplitude delta waves (SWSt) and a desynchronized state (ASt). However, the parallel with NREM and REM sleep, respectively, is rough and insufficiently justified. Differences can already be noted by contrasting the short examples provided in the figures. While NREM and REM sleep differ in terms of muscle tone (EMG), no such difference is discernible between SWSt and ASt. In SWSt, the slow waves appear to overlap with fast activity at the cortical level (M1, S1), which is not typically the case during NREM sleep. In addition, because the time scale is not the same in Figures 1 and 2 (1 s vs 2 s), yet the slow waves appear to have similar durations, it is also possible that the slow waves generated during SWSt and NREM differ. To better support the proposed parallel between NREM and SWSt on the one hand, and ASt and REM on the other, the authors should provide a thorough comparison of these states (spectral features, properties of the slow waves, duration and frequency of each state, etc.). Without this, inferences from results obtained under urethane anesthesia to sleep are not warranted.

      The authors acknowledge this issue in the Discussion ("These findings suggest that there is no functional equivalence between urethane-activated states and REM sleep"), but this caveat should be integrated from the very beginning (title, abstract, and introduction).

      (3) In some graphs, the power spectrum is normalized. Under anesthesia, this normalization was performed "within each animal to the SWSt maximum for that signal". However, I could not find equivalent information for sleep. This is key information needed to correctly interpret the results shown in Figure 1.

      (4) The authors should also clarify their criteria for concluding on the absence or presence of a given effect. For example, in the legend of Figure 1c, they write: "Note the presence of coherence during wakefulness, demonstrating the internalization of the respiratory signal, and its drop during sleep". Unless coherence is exactly zero, some degree of coherence is always "present". Figure 1 instead shows that coherence is modulated across frequencies during wakefulness, with peaks in the delta and theta ranges.

      In Figure 2, they write: "PAC between respiration and OB gamma amplitude was present during ASt but disappeared during SWSt". Again, the authors should clarify what is meant by "disappeared", as they only tested for differences between ASt and SWSt.

      Given that the authors implemented a strategy to test for above-chance coherence using surrogate datasets, they should consistently provide statistical tests showing which conditions or frequency bands exhibit coherence above chance in order to justify claims about the presence or absence of an effect.

      (5) Likewise, comparisons across states should always be supported by statistical tests, for example, in Figure 4. In addition, despite the apparent absence of coherence during SWSt in Figures 4f and 4g (which again should be formally tested), Figure 4h shows an increase in coherence around 2 Hz, which suggests some degree of coherence between nasal airflow and the olfactory bulb.

      (6) Figures should more clearly distinguish results based on a single "representative" animal from population averages. For example, were Figures 4g and 2h computed at the population level?

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Sleep is typified by a behavioural attenuation of responsiveness to external stimuli (higher arousal thresholds). There are various mechanisms through which sensory perception could be dampened, and while thalamic and cortical gate points have been well studied, the focus here is on peripheral ones - at the level of the olfactory bulb (OB). While something conceptually similar has been shown in insects, this paper represents an important contribution to understanding attenuation of sensory perception during rodent sleep and anaesthesia.

      This paper shows that respiration-locked potentials and gamma activity in the olfactory bulb, which are important for olfactory coding, are diminished during sleep and when under anaesthesia compared to wake. Further, this state-dependent activity in OB is likely to be locally generated. Using a tracheotomy procedure aimed to dissociate nasal airflow from natural inhalations, authors demonstrate that local field potentials (LFPs) in the OB phase lock with artificially generated air pulses (delivered into the nasal cavity) during the active phase of anaesthesia but not during a more passive state. LFPs did not synchronise with respiratory signals during either anaesthesia state. Lastly, the authors showed that as delta power increased (typical of slow-wave-sleep), the coherence between nasal inhalation rhythms and OB LFP coherence decreased, indicating that as rats experienced something akin to slow-wave-sleep (during anaesthesia), disconnection from the external environment could be augmented. Taken together, the authors argue that the change in activity observed in the olfactory bulb during sleep and anaesthesia provides a non-permissive state for sensory processing and manifests as sensory dissociation

      Strengths:

      The manuscript is well-written, and the experiments are thorough. Experiments examining coupling of nasal respiration with OB potentials and delta activity are particularly interesting as they point to augmented sensory disconnection during a sleep phase typically associated with higher arousal thresholds.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) An experiment addressing the following points, is missing:

      Does odour stimulation that wakes up a subject restore gamma activity and respiration-locked potentials?

      Is OB/respiration desynchrony maintained when presented with a non-rousing stimulus?

      Is waking upon stimulus delivery less likely as delta activity increases and coherence between OB/respiratory rhythms weakens?

      (2) Many of the experiments are performed under anaesthesia, which I understand is for practical reasons. While authors are forthcoming about limitations of using anaesthesia in lieu of natural sleep states, I would have preferred to see more experiments performed on sleeping animals.

    5. Author response:

      We thank the reviewing editor and the reviewers for their careful evaluation of our manuscript “Early sleep dependent sensory gating in the olfactory system”, and for their constructive feedback. We are encouraged by the overall positive assessment of the work.

      In the revised version, we will address all the points raised by the reviewers. Below, we outlined the main aspects of the revision.

      (1) Contextualization within prior literature.

      We will expand the text to better situate our findings within the existing literature and clarify the specific contribution of our work, particularly with respect to state dependent changes in olfactory bulb activity.

      (2) Distinction between sleep and urethane anaesthesia.

      We will revise the text to more clearly distinguish findings obtained during natural sleep from those obtained under urethane anaesthesia. While avoiding direct equivalence between states, we will clarify that the comparison is intended to highlight shared features of slow wave brain dynamics associated with sensory gating.

      (3) Clarification of analytical methods and statistical criteria.

      We will provide additional details regarding normalisation procedures, surrogate based analysis, and statistical criteria used to assess the presence or absence of coherence and phase amplitude coupling, ensuring consistency across figures.

      (4) Improvements in figures in terminology.

      We will revise figure annotations to improve clarity (axis, colour scales, units and labelling) and ensure consistent terminology throughout the manuscript.

      We believe these revisions will further strengthen the manuscript while preserving its central conclusions.

    1. eLife Assessment

      The present work provides new insights into detailed brain morphology. Using state-of-the-art methods, it provides compelling evidence for the relevance of sucal morphology for the precise localization of brain function. The fundamental findings have great relevance for the fields of imaging neuroscience and individualized medicine as ever-improving techniques improve precision to the point where individual brain anatomy is taking centre stage.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      [Editors' note: this version has been assessed by the Reviewing Editor without further input from the original reviewers. The authors have addressed the comments raised in the previous round of review.]

      Summary:

      Ever-improving techniques allow the detailed capture of brain morphology and function to the point where individual brain anatomy becomes an important factor. This study investigated detailed sulcal morphology in the parieto-occipital junction. Using cutting-edge methods, it provides important insights into local anatomy, individual variability, and local brain function. The presented work advances the field and will stimulate future research into this important area.

      Strengths:

      Detailed, very thorough methodology. Multiple raters mapped detailed sulci in a large cohort. The identified sulcal features and their functional and behavioural relevance are then studied using various complementary methods. The results provide compelling evidence for the importance of the described sulcal features and their proposed relationship to cortical brain function.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      After manually labelling 144 human adult hemispheres in the lateral parieto-occipital junction (LPOJ), the authors 1) propose a nomenclature for 4 previously unnamed highly variable sulci located between the temporal and parietal or occipital lobes, 2) focus on one of these newly named sulci, namely the ventral supralateral occipital sulcus (slocs-v) and compare it to neighbouring sulci to demonstrate its specificity (in terms of depth, surface area, gray matter thickness, myelination, and connectivity), 3) relate the morphology of a subgroup of sulci from the region including the slocs-v to the performance in a spatial orientation task, demonstrating behavioural and morphological specificity. In addition to these results, the authors propose an extended reflection on the relationship between these newly named landmarks and previous anatomical studies, a reflection about the slocs-v related to functional and cytoarchitectonic parcellations as well as anatomic connectivity and an insight about potential anatomical mechanisms relating sulcation and behaviour.

      Strengths:

      - To my knowledge, this is the first study addressing the variable tertiary sulci located between the superior temporal sulcus (STS) and intra-parietal sulcus (IPS).

      - This is a very comprehensive study addressing altogether anatomical, architectural, functional and cognitive aspects.

      - The definition of highly variable yet highly reproductible sulci such as the slocs-v feeds the community with new anatomo-functional landmarks (which is emphasized by the provision of a probability map in supp. mat., which in my opinion should be proposed in the main body).

      - The comparison of different features between the slocs-v and similar sulci is useful to demonstrate their difference.

      - The detailed comparison of the present study with state of the art contextualises and strengthens the novel findings.

      - The functional study complements the anatomical description and points towards cognitive specificity related to a subset of sulci from the LPOJ

      - The discussion offers a proposition of theoretical interpretation of the findings

      - The data and code are mostly available online (raw data made available upon request).

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      72 subjects, and 144 hemispheres, from the Human Connectome Project had their parietal sulci manually traced. This identified the presence of previous undescribed shallow sulci. One of these sulci, the ventral supralateral occipital sulcus (slocs-v), was then demonstrated to have functional specificity in spatial orientation. The discussion furthermore provides an eloquent overview of our understanding of the anatomy of the parietal cortex, situating their new work into the broader field. Finally, this paper stimulates further debate about the relative value of detailed manual anatomy, inherently limited in participant numbers and areas of the brain covered, against fully automated processing that can cover thousands of participants but easily misses the kinds of anatomical details described here.

      Strengths:

      - This is the first paper describing the tertiary sulci of the parietal cortex with this level of detail, identifying novel shallow sulci and mapping them to behaviour and function.

      - It is a very elegantly written paper, situating the current work into the broader field.

      - The combination of detailed anatomy and function and behaviour is superb.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Strengths

      (1) The definition of highly variable yet highly reproducible sulci such as the slocs-v feeds the community with new anatomo-functional landmarks (which is emphasized by the provision of a probability map in supp. mat., which in my opinion should be proposed in the main body).

      We agree with Reviewer 2 that there is merit to including the probability maps as a main text Figure rather than Supplementary Figure. We have now added it to the main text.

      Weaknesses

      (1) While the identification of the sulci has been done thoroughly with expert validation, the sulci have not been labeled in a way that enables the demonstration of the reproducibility of the labeling.

      Our group was unable to use an approach amenable to calculating inter-rater agreements to expedite the process of defining thousands of sulci at the individual level in multiple regions as this was our first study comprehensively documenting the sulcal organization of this region. Nevertheless, our method followed a rigorous, three-tiered procedure to ensure accurate sulcal definitions were identified in all participants. In the case of this study, authors YT and TG first defined sulci. These sulci were then checked by a trained expert (EHW). Finally, sulcal definitions were finalized by the senior author, an expert neuroanatomist (KSW). We emphasize that this process has produced reproducible anatomical results when charting other regions such as posteromedial cortex (Willbrand et al., 2023 Science Advances; Willbrand et al., 2023 Communications Biology; Maboudian et al., 2024 The Journal of Neuroscience; Ramos Benitez et al., 2024 Neuropsychologia), ventral temporal cortex (Miller et al., 2020 Scientific Reports; Parker et al., 2023 Brain Structure and Function), and lateral prefrontal cortex (Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Voorhies et al., 2021 Nature Communications; Yao et al., 2022 Cerebral Cortex; Willbrand et al., 2022 Brain Structure and Function; Willbrand et al., 2023 The Journal of Neuroscience; Willbrand et al., 2024 Brain Structure and Function) across age groups, species, and clinical populations. For the present study, by the time the final tier of our method was reached, we emphasize that a very small percentage (~2%) of sulcal definitions were actually modified. We will include an exact percentage in future publications in LPC/LOPJ.

      Our Methods have been edited to describe these features (Pages 21-22):

      “As this is the first time the sulcal expanse of LPC/LOPJ was comprehensively charted with a focus on pTS, the location of each sulcus was confirmed through a three-tiered procedure for each participant in each hemisphere. First, trained independent raters (Y.T. and T.G.) identified sulci. Second, these definitions were checked by a trained expert (E.H.W.). Third, these labels were finalized by a neuroanatomist (K.S.W.). We emphasize that this procedure has produced reproducible results in our prior work across the cortex (Miller et al. 2021; Voorhies et al. 2021; Yao et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2023; Willbrand et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2024; Parker et al. 2023; Miller et al. 2020; Willbrand et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2023; Maboudian et al. 2024; Ramos Benitez et al. 2024). All LPC sulci were then manually defined and saved as .label files in FreeSurfer using tksurfer tools, from which morphological and anatomical features were extracted. We defined LPC/LPOJ sulci for each participant based on the most recent schematics of sulcal patterning by Petrides (2019) as well as pial, inflated, and smoothed white matter (smoothwm) FreeSurfer cortical surface reconstructions of each individual. In some cases, the precise start or end point of a sulcus can be difficult to determine on a surface (Borne et al., 2020); however, examining consensus across multiple surfaces allowed us to clearly determine each sulcal boundary in each individual. For four example hemispheres with these 13-17 sulci identified, see Fig. 1a (Supplementary Fig. 5 for all hemispheres). The specific criteria to identify the slocs and pAngs are outlined in Fig. 1b.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Weaknesses

      (1) The numbers of subjects are inherently limited both in number as well as in being typically developing young adults.

      First, although the sample size of the present study is small in number in comparison to large N, group-level neuroimaging analyses, it is comparable to precision neuroimaging studies examining sulcal features in individual participants (for example, Cachia et al., 2021 Frontiers in Neuroanatomy; Garrison et al., 2015 Nature Communications; Lopez-Persem et al., 2019 The Journal of Neuroscience; Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Roell et al., 2021 Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience; Voorhies et al., 2021 Nature Communications; Weiner, 2019 The Anatomical Record; Willbrand, et al., 2022 Science Advances; Willbrand, et al., 2022 Brain Structure & Function; Yao et al., 2022 Cerebral Cortex). We discuss this point in detail in the Limitations subsection of the Discussion (Page 17):

      “This manual method is also arduous and time-consuming, which, on the one hand, limits the sample size in terms of number of participants, while on the other, results in thousands of precisely defined sulci. This push-pull relationship reflects a broader conversation in the human brain mapping and cognitive neuroscience fields between a balance of large N studies and “precision imaging” studies in individual participants (Gratton et al., 2022; Naselaris et al., 2021; Rosenberg and Finn, 2022). Though our sample size is comparable to other studies that produced reliable results relating sulcal morphology to brain function and cognition (for example, Cachia et al., 2021; Garrison et al., 2015; Lopez-Persem et al., 2019; Miller et al., 2021; Roell et al., 2021; Voorhies et al., 2021; Weiner, 2019; Willbrand et al., 2022a, 2022b; Yao et al., 2022), ongoing work that uses deep learning algorithms to automatically define sulci should result in much larger sample sizes in future studies (Borne et al., 2020; Lee et al., 2024, 2025; Lyu et al., 2021). The time-consuming manual definitions of primary, secondary, and PTS also limit the cortical expanse explored in each study, thus restricting the present study to LPC/LPOJ.”

      Second, we utilized a young adult sample as this is what is the standard of the field when charting features of sulci for the first time (for example, Paus et al., 1996 Cerebral Cortex; Chiavaras & Petrides, 2000 Journal of Comparative Neurology; Segal & Petrides, 2012 European Journal of Neuroscience; Zlatkina & Petrides, 2014 Proceedings of the Royal Society B Biological Science; Sprung-Much & Petrides, 2018 Brain Structure & Function; Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Willbrand et al., 2022 Science Advances; Willbrand et al., 2023 Communications Biology; Drudik et al., 2023 Cerebral Cortex). Nevertheless, it is indeed crucial to confirm that this schematic is translatable to other age groups; however this exploration is beyond the scope of the present project and is for future investigation. We have added text to the Limitations subsection of the Discussion to emphasize the points (Pages 17-18):

      “Additionally, the scope of the present study is limited in that the sample was only in young adults. This sample was selected as it is the standard of the field when charting features of sulci for the first time (for example, Paus et al. 1996; Chiavaras and Petrides 2000; Segal and Petrides 2012; Zlatkina and Petrides 2014; Sprung-Much and Petrides 2018; Miller et al. 2021; Willbrand et al. 2022; Willbrand et al. 2023; Drudik et al. 2023). Nevertheless, it is necessary to explore how well this updated schematic translates to different age groups, species, and clinical populations.”

      Finally, it is worth mentioning that we have begun preliminary analyses on the translatability of this schematic, and have shown that it does hold in a pediatric sample (ages 6-18 years old; Author response image 1).

      Author response image 1.

      Example pediatric participant with all LPC/LOPJ sulci identified in both hemispheres. Incidence rates for the variable pTS identified in the present work in a pediatric sample are included below (N = 79 participants)

      (2) While the paper begins by describing four new sulci, only one is explored further in greater detail.

      We focused on the slocs-v as it has a high incidence rate, making it amenable to our analytic pipelines relating sulci to cortical morphology, architecture, and function, as well as cognition (Miller et al., 2021 The Journal of Neuroscience; Voorhies et al., 2021 Nature Communications; Yao et al., 2022 Cerebral Cortex; Willbrand et al., 2022 Science Advances; Willbrand et al., 2023 The Journal of Neuroscience; Maboudian et al., 2024 The Journal of Neuroscience). However, we want to emphasize that throughout the paper there are multiple analyses that further describe the three more variable sulci: 1) detailing their sulcal patterning (Supplementary Tables 1-4) and 2) detailing their morphology and architecture (Supplementary Fig. 6). We do agree though that it is a worthwhile endeavor to further describe these sulci—especially if the data is readily available. As such, to complement our behavioral analysis identifying a relationship between the morphology of the consistent sulci and spatial orientation and considering the well-documented relationship between sulcal incidence and cognition (for review see Cachia et al., 2021 Frontiers in Neuroanatomy), we tested whether the number of variable sulci and the incidence of each variable sulcus specifically were related to spatial orientation. This procedure produced null results on all neuroanatomical variables, which we now mention in the Results (Page 11):

      “Finally, as in prior work examining variably-present PTS in other cortical expanses (for example, (Amiez et al., 2018; Cachia et al., 2014; Fornito et al., 2004; Willbrand et al., 2024b), we assessed whether the presence/absence of the more variable PTS identified in the present work (slocs-d, pAngs-v, and pAngs-d) was related to spatial orientation, reasoning, and processing speed task performance. We identified no significant associations between the presence/absence of these sulci in either hemisphere with performance on these tests (ps > .05).”

      (3) There is some tension between calling the discovered sulci new vs acknowledging they have already been reported, but not named.

      To resolve this tension, we have revised the text to 1) ensure proper acknowledgment that sulci have been noticed in this region, 2) point out that these sulci were left unnamed and undescribed, and 3) emphasize that one of the primary goals of this project was to comprehensively detail the sulcal organization of this region at a precise, individual-level considering these often-overlooked sulci.

      This is primarily done at the beginning of the Results (Pages 4-5), where we now write:

      “Four previously undescribed small and shallow sulci in the lateral parieto-occipital junction (LPOJ)

      In previous research in small sample sizes, neuroanatomists noticed shallow sulci in this cortical expanse, but did not describe them beyond including an unlabeled sulcus in their schematic at best (Supplementary Methods and Supplementary Figs. 1-4 for historical details). In the present study, we fully update this sulcal landscape considering these overlooked indentations. In addition to defining the 13 sulci previously described within the LPC/LPOJ, as well as the posterior superior temporal cortex in individual participants (Methods) (Petrides, 2019), we could also identify as many as four small and shallow PTS situated within the LPC/LPOJ that were highly variable across individuals and left undescribed until now (Supplementary Methods and Supplementary Figs. 1-4). Though we officially name and characterize features of these sulci in this paper for the first time, it is necessary to note that the location of these four sulci is consistent with the presence of variable “accessory sulci” in this cortical expanse mentioned in prior modern and classic studies (Supplementary Methods). For four example hemispheres with these 13-17 sulci identified, see Fig. 1a (Supplementary Fig. 5 for all hemispheres).”

      (4) The anatomy of the sulci, as opposed to their relation to other sulci, could be described in greater detail.

      To detail these sulci above and beyond their relation to other sulci, we document the anatomical metrics of all sulci in Supplemental Figure 6:

      Results (Page 8):

      The morphological and architectural features of all LPC/LPOJ sulci are described in Supplementary Fig. 6.

    1. eLife Assessment

      The study investigates an emerging research field: the interaction between sleep and development. The authors used Drosophila larvae sleep as a study model and provide insight into how neuropeptide circuitry control sleep differentially between larvae and adult Drosophila. By using board range of behaviour and imaging methods and analysis, the authors provide a valuable investigation that demonstrates a larvae-specific sleep regulatory neural pathway of Hugin-PK2-Dilps in the Drosophila neurosecretory centre IPC. While some further text clarifications are still required, the revision presented convincing evidence supporting the claims with the new imaging data, sleep parametric analysis, and further clarification addressing the reviewers' comments.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The manuscript investigates how neuropeptidergic signaling affects sleep regulation in Drosophila larvae. The authors first conduct a screen of CRISPR knock-out lines of genes encoding enzymes or receptors for neuropeptides and monoamines. As a result of this screen, the authors follow up on one hit, the hugin receptor, PK2-R1. They use genetic approaches including mutants and targeted manipulations of PK2-R1 activity in insulin-producing cells (IPCs) to increase total sleep amounts in 2nd instar larvae. Similarly, dilp3 and dilp5 null mutants and genetic silencing of IPCs show increases in sleep. The authors also show that hugin mutants and thermogenetic/optogenetic activation of hugin-expressing neurons caused reductions in sleep. Furthermore, they show through imaging-based approaches that hugin-expressing neurons activate IPCs. A key finding is that wash on of hugin peptides, Hug-γ and PK-2, in ex vivo brain preparations activates larval IPCs, as assayed by CRTC::GFP imaging. The authors then examine how the PK2-R1, hugin, and IPC manipulations affect adult sleep. Finally, the authors examine how Ca2+ responses through CRTC::GFP imaging in adult IPCs are influenced by the wash on of hugin peptides.

      Strengths:

      (1) This paper builds on previously published studies that examine Drosophila larval sleep regulation. Through the power of Drosophila genetics, this study yields additional insights into what role neuropeptides play in regulation of Drosophila larval sleep.

      (2) This study utilizes several diverse approaches to examine larval and adult sleep regulation, neural activity, and circuit connections. The impressive array of distinct analyses provides new understanding into how Drosophila sleep-wake circuitry in regulated across the lifespan.

      (3) The imaging approaches used to examine IPC activation upon hugin manipulation (either thermogenetic activation or wash on of peptides) demonstrate a powerful approach for examining how changes in neuropeptidergic signaling affect downstream neurons. These experiments involve precise manipulations as the authors use both in vivo and ex vivo conditions to observe an effect on IPC activity.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) There is limited discussion of why statistically significant differences are observed in some genetic and temperature controls. This discussion would better support the authors' conclusions.

      (2) The functional connectivity of the huginPC-IPC circuit in larvae could be better supported by chemogenetics using real-time calcium imaging (GCaMP).

      Comments on revisions:

      I would like to thank the authors for the revisions. The inclusion of all sleep metrics, more detailed descriptions in the methods, & a more thorough comparison to other published articles has addressed most of my concerns.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Sleep affects cognition and metabolism, evolving throughout development. In mammals, infants have fast sleep-wake cycles that stabilize in adults via circadian regulation. In this study, the author performed a genetic screen for neurotransmitters/peptides regulating sleep and identified the neuropeptide Hugin and its receptor PK2-R1 as essential components for sleep in Drosophila larvae. They showed that IPCs express Pk2-R1 and silencing IPCs resulted in significant increase in the sleep amount, which was consistent with the effect they observed in PK2-R1 knock out mutants. They also showed that Hugin peptides, secreted by a subset of Hugin neurons (Hug-PC), activate IPCs through the PK2-R1 receptor. This activation prompts IPCs to release insulin-like peptides (Dilps), which are implicated in the modulation of sleep. They showed that Hugin peptides induce a PK2-R1 dependent calcium (Ca²⁺) increase in IPCs, which they linked to the release of Dilp3, showing a connection between Hugin signaling to IPCs, Dilp3 release and sleep regulation. Additionally, the activation of Hug-PC neurons reduced sleep amounts, while silencing them had the opposite effect. In contrast to the larval stage, the Hugin/PK2-R1 axis was not critical for sleep regulation in Drosophila adults, suggesting that this neuropeptidergic circuitry has divergent roles in sleep regulation across different stages of development.

      Strengths:

      This study used an updated system for sleep quantification in Drosophila larvae and this method allowed precise measurement of larval sleep patterns which is essential for the understanding of sleep regulation.

      The authors performed unbiased genetics screening and successfully identified novel regulators for larval sleep, Hugin and its receptor PK2-R1, making a substantial contribution to the understanding of neuropeptidergic control of sleep regulation.

      They clearly demonstrated the mechanism by which Hugin expressing neurons influence sleep through the activation of IPCs via PK2-R1 with Ca2+ responses and can modulate sleep.

      Based on the demonstrated activation of PK2-R1 by the human Hugin orthologue Neuromedin U, research on human sleep disorders may benefit from the discoveries from Drosophila since sleep regulating mechanisms are conversed across species.

      Weaknesses:

      Previously identified weaknesses have been largely addressed by the authors.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study investigates how neuropeptidergic signaling affects sleep regulation in Drosophila larvae. The authors first conduct a screen of CRISPR knock-out lines of genes encoding enzymes or receptors for neuropeptides and monoamines. As a result of this screen, the authors follow up on one hit, the hugin receptor, PK2-R1. They use genetic approaches, including mutants and targeted manipulations of PK2-R1 activity in insulin-producing cells (IPCs) to increase total sleep amounts in 2nd instar larvae. Similarly, dilp3 and dilp5 null mutants and genetic silencing of IPCs show increases in sleep. The authors also show that hugin mutants and thermogenetic/optogenetic activation of hugin-expressing neurons caused reductions in sleep. Furthermore, they show through imaging-based approaches that hugin-expressing neurons activate IPCs. A key finding is that wash-on of hugin peptides, Hug-γ and PK-2, in ex vivo brain preparations activates larval IPCs, as assayed by CRTC::GFP imaging. The authors then examine how the PK2-R1, hugin, and IPC manipulations affect adult sleep. Finally, the authors examine how Ca2+ responses through CRTC::GFP imaging in adult IPCs are influenced by the wash-on of hugin peptides. The conclusions of this paper are somewhat well supported by data, but some aspects of the experimental approach and sleep analysis need to be clarified and extended.

      Strengths:

      (1) This paper builds on previously published studies that examine Drosophila larval sleep regulation. Through the power of Drosophila genetics, this study yields additional insights into what role neuropeptides play in the regulation of Drosophila larval sleep.

      (2) This study utilizes several diverse approaches to examine larval and adult sleep regulation, neural activity, and circuit connections. The impressive array of distinct analyses provides new understanding into how Drosophila sleep-wake circuitry in regulated across the lifespan.

      (3) The imaging approaches used to examine IPC activation upon hugin manipulation (either thermogenetic activation or wash-on of peptides) demonstrate a powerful approach for examining how changes in neuropeptidergic signaling affect downstream neurons. These experiments involve precise manipulations as the authors use both in vivo and ex vivo conditions to observe an effect on IPC activity.

      Weaknesses:

      Although the paper does have some strengths in principle, these strengths are not fully supported by the experimental approaches used by the authors. In particular:

      (1) The authors show total sleep amount over an 18-hour period for all the measures of 2nd instar larval sleep throughout the paper. However, published studies have shown that sleep changes over the course of 2nd instar development, so more precise time windows are necessary for the analyses in this study.

      (2) Previously published reports of sleep metrics in both Drosophila larvae and adults include the average number of sleep episodes (bout number) and the average length of sleep episodes (bout length). Neither of these metrics is included in the paper for either the larval sleep or adult sleep data. Not including these metrics makes it difficult for readers to compare the findings in this study to previously published papers in the established Drosophila sleep literature.

      (3) Because Drosophila adult & larval sleep is based on locomotion, the authors need to show the activity values for the experiments supporting their key conclusions. They do show travel distances in Figure 2 - Figure Supplement 1, however, it is not clear how these distances were calculated or how the distances relate to the overall activity of individual larvae during sleep experiments. It is also concerning that inactivation of the PK2-R1-expressing neurons causes a reduction in locomotion speed. This could partially explain the increase in sleep that they observe.

      (4) The authors rely on homozygous mutant larvae and adult flies to support many of their conclusions. They also rely on Gal4 lines with fairly broad expression in the Drosophila brain to support their conclusions. Adding more precise tissue-specific manipulations, including thermogenetic activation and inhibition of smaller populations of neurons in the study would be needed to increase confidence in the presented results. Similarly, demonstrating that larval development and feeding are not affected by the broad manipulations would strengthen the conclusions.

      (5) Many of the experiments presented in this study would benefit from genetic and temperature controls. These controls would increase confidence in the presented results.

      (6) The authors claim that their findings in larvae uncover the circuit basis for larval sleep regulation. However, there is very little comparison to published studies demonstrating that neuropeptides like Dh44 regulate larval sleep. Because hugin-expressing neurons have been shown to be downstream of Dh44 neurons, the authors need to include this as part of their discussion. The authors also do not explain why other neuropeptides in the initial screen are not pursued in the study. Given the effect that these manipulations have on larval sleep in their initial screen, it seems likely that other neuropeptidergic circuits regulate larval sleep.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for the constructive comments. According to the suggestions, we have compared the relative sleep amounts of wild-type control and Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs mutants/manipulations between 6hr-period and 18-hour periods in the 2nd instar larval stage and found consistent sleep phenotypes. We have also showed the sleep metrics data of larva and adults. We have included additional data of locomotion and feeding behavior in wild-type control and Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs mutants/manipulations, which suggest that sleep phenotypes of Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs mutants/manipulations are less affected by locomotion and feeding behavior changes. As pointed out, our study could not exclude the possibility that in addition to the Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs axis, other pathways including DH44 could act in larval sleep control. We have included these points in Discussion. Please see point-to-point responses for details.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study examines larval sleep patterns and compares them to sleep regulation in adult flies. The authors demonstrate hallmark sleep characteristics in larvae, including sleep rebound and increased arousal thresholds. Through genetic and behavioral analyses, they identify PK2-R1 as a key receptor involved in sleep modulation, likely via the HuginPC-IPC signaling pathway. Loss of PK2-R1 results in increased sleep, which aligns with previous findings in hugin knockout mutants. While the study presents significant contributions to the field, further investigation is needed to address discrepancies with earlier research and strengthen mechanistic claims.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study explores a relatively understudied aspect of sleep regulation, focusing on larval development.

      (2) The use of an automated behavioral measurement system ensures precise quantification of sleep patterns.

      (3) The findings provide strong genetic and behavioral evidence supporting the role of the HuginPC-IPC pathway in sleep regulation.

      (4) The study has broader implications for understanding the evolution and functional divergence of sleep circuits.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The manuscript does not sufficiently discuss previous studies, particularly concerning hugin mutants and their metabolic effects.

      (2) The specificity of IPC secretion mechanisms is unclear, particularly regarding potential indirect effects on Dilp2.

      (3) Alternative circuits, such as the HuginPC-DH44 pathway, require further consideration.

      (4) Functional connectivity between HuginPC neurons and IPCs is not directly validated.

      (5) Developmental differences in sleep regulatory mechanisms are not thoroughly examined.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for the positive comments. As suggested, our study could not exclude the possibility that in addition to the Hugin/PK2-R1/IPCs axis, alternative pathways including the Hugin/DH44 axis could contribute to sleep control in larvae. We have added these points in Discussion. We also have added additional data to show mechanistic differences of larval and adult sleep control. Please see point-to-point responses for details.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Sleep affects cognition and metabolism, evolving throughout development. In mammals, infants have fast sleep-wake cycles that stabilize in adults via circadian regulation. In this study, the author performed a genetic screen for neurotransmitters/peptides regulating sleep and identified the neuropeptide Hugin and its receptor PK2-R1 as essential components for sleep in Drosophila larvae. They showed that IPCs express Pk2-R1 and silencing IPCs resulted in a significant increase in the sleep amount, which was consistent with the effect they observed in PK2-R1 knock-out mutants. They also showed that Hugin peptides, secreted by a subset of Hugin neurons (Hug-PC), activate IPCs through the PK2-R1 receptor. This activation prompts IPCs to release insulin-like peptides (Dilps), which are implicated in the modulation of sleep. They showed that Hugin peptides induce a PK2-R1 dependent calcium (Ca²⁺) increase in IPCs, which they linked to the release of Dilp3, showing a connection between Hugin signaling to IPCs, Dilp3 release, and sleep regulation. Additionally, the activation of Hug-PC neurons reduced sleep amounts, while silencing them had the opposite effect. In contrast to the larval stage, the Hugin/PK2-R1 axis was not critical for sleep regulation in Drosophila adults, suggesting that this neuropeptidergic circuitry has divergent roles in sleep regulation across different stages of development.

      Strengths:

      This study used an updated system for sleep quantification in Drosophila larvae, and this method allowed precise measurement of larval sleep patterns which is essential for the understanding of sleep regulation.

      The authors performed unbiased genetics screening and successfully identified novel regulators for larval sleep, Hugin and its receptor PK2-R1, making a substantial contribution to the understanding of neuropeptidergic control of sleep regulation.

      They clearly demonstrated the mechanism by which Hugin-expressing neurons influence sleep through the activation of IPCs via PK2-R1 with Ca2+ responses and can modulate sleep.

      Based on the demonstrated activation of PK2-R1 by the human Hugin orthologue Neuromedin U, research on human sleep disorders may benefit from the discoveries from Drosophila since sleep-regulating mechanisms are conserved across species.

      Weaknesses:

      The study primarily focused on sleep regulation in Drosophila larvae, showing that the Hugin/PK2-R1 axis is critical for larval sleep but not necessary for adult sleep. The effects of the Hugin axis in the adult are, however, incompletely explained and somewhat inconsistent. PK2-R1 knockout adults also display increased sleep, as does HugPC silencing, at least for daytime sleep. The difference lies in Dilp3/5 mutant animals showing decreased sleep and IPCs seemingly responding with reduced Dilp3 release to PK-2 treatment (Figure 6). It seems difficult to reconcile the author's conclusions regarding this point without additional data. It could be argued that PK2-R1 still regulates adult sleep, but not via Hugin and IPCs/Dilps.

      Another issue might be that the authors show relative sleep levels for adults using Trikinetics monitoring. From the methods, it is not clear if the authors backcrossed their line to an isogenic wild-type background to normalize for line-specific effects on sleep. Thus, it is likely that each line has differences in total sleep time due to background effects, e.g., their Kir2.1 control line showed reduced sleep relative to the compared genotypes. This might limit the conclusions on the role of Hugin/PK2-R1 on adult sleep.

      We thank Reviewer #3 for the valuable comments. According to the suggestions, we have included additional data of adult sleep phenotypes with IPCs/Dilps and HugPC/PK-2 manipulations. We believe that these additional data further support the idea that the Hugin/PR2/IPCs axis acts differently in larval and adult sleep control.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Show all data as individual data points in the graphs. The use of box-and-whisker plots makes it difficult to determine how much variation there is in each experiment.

      According to the comments, we have changed all graphs to the dots-and-whisker plots (Figures 1–6; Figure 1—figure supplements 2–4; Figure 2—figure supplement 1; Figure 3—figure supplement 1 and 3; Figure 5—figure supplement 1; and Figure 6— figure supplements 1 and 3).

      (2) Show all larval sleep metrics (total sleep duration, bout #, bout length, & activity) over the first 6-hour period of 2nd instar development. Larval sleep changes over the course of 2nd instar development so showing an 18-hour period is not as informative for the different manipulations in the study. This also allows for a more thorough comparison to Szuperak et al 2018.

      According to the comments, we have shown all larval sleep metrics (total sleep duration, bout #, bout length, & activity) over the first 6 hours for PK2-R1 KO mutants (Figure 1-figure supplemental 5). These PK2-R1 mutant phenotypes are consistent with those described by our sleep amount data over an 18 hr period (Figure 1-figure supplemental 5). We thus consistently show all the sleep phenotype data in the 18 hr period window in the 2nd instar larvae in this paper.

      (3) Show activity values for every experiment. Behavior is based on locomotion, so there is a need to show that larvae in each manipulation do not have locomotive defects.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have shown the activity values for each experiment (Figure 2—figure supplement 1 and Figure 3—figure supplement 1). These data clearly indicated that changes in sleep amounts in each manipulation are not only due to locomotion alterations. We have thus added the sentence below at line 151156 in the manuscript.

      Locomotion changes were not consistently observed upon either activation or suppression of Hug neurons (Figure 3—figure supplement 1), suggesting that changes in sleep amounts is unrelated to locomotor alterations.

      (4) Provide additional explanation as to why PK2-R1 was pursued in the study. There are several candidates in Figure 1 - Figure Supplement 4 (like sNPF-Gal4, Dh31-Gal4, and DskGal4) that have effects on sleep. These have also not been studied in the context of larval sleep regulation.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added the following sentences at line 108-114 in the manuscript.

      The role of PK2-R1 in larval sleep, on the other hand, has been unknown to date. Given its strong expression in insulin-producing cells (Schlegel et al., 2016) and its function as a receptor for the neuropeptide Hugin, which modulates feeding (Schoofs et al., 2014), we hypothesized that PK2-R1 might mediate neuropeptidergic signaling that links metabolic and sleep regulation during development. We thus focused on this gene as a candidate connecting behavioral and endocrine sleep control.

      (5) Insulin manipulations are known to disrupt Drosophila development (Rulifson et al, 2002). Therefore, it would be beneficial to show that larvae develop normally in dilp3 and dilp5 mutants by examining the time to pupal formation in these mutants compared to controls. If the mutant larvae take longer to reach the pupal stage, how do the authors know that the 2nd instar control and mutant larvae are the same developmental age? As indicated above, the developmental age of larvae does affect the total amount of sleep, so this could affect the authors' conclusions.

      We agree that this is an important point in this study. In each experiment, we carefully checked the developmental stage of larvae progeny by mouth hook analysis and measuring larval size and used only larvae with characteristics comparable to wildtype 2nd instar larvae. We have added these descriptions in Methods (line 411–416).

      (6) Figure 1 data is only supported by homozygous mutants & 1 fairly-broadly expressed Gal4 driver. The authors need to show that inactivation of PK2-R1 neurons with more tissuerestrictive Gal4 driver lines has the same effect as the other manipulations to further support the conclusions. Examining sleep in activation of PK2-R1 neurons with the broadly expressed Gal4 driver & UAS-TrpA1 would also provide better support for the conclusions.

      We agree. Indeed, we tried to narrow down to small subsets of neurons using multiple different Gal4 drivers, but unfortunately, we did not obtain potential candidates.

      Therefore, although our data show that the Hugin/PK2-R1axis contributes to sleep control in larvae, we cannot rule out the possibility that other axises could also function in larval sleep control. We mentioned this point in the original version of the submitted manuscript (line 134-137).

      (7) Provide more explanation as to how your methods of defining sleep compare/contrast to published papers. It is not clear how many frames = 1 sec in your recordings. The definition of sleep as 12 frames needs to include a time component as well. This allows for easier comparison to other published papers examining Drosophila larval sleep (Szuperak et al 2018; Churgin et al 2019; Poe et al 2023; Poe et al 2024).

      Our recordings were acquired at 0.87 frames per second. We have added this information in Method (line 431).

      (8) Figure 2 data is only supported by mutants & inactivation with 1 Gal4 driver per cell population. Showing activation of Gal4-expressing cells with UAS-TrpA1 would add more support to the conclusions.

      We have already showed the reduced sleep amounts in both HuginGAL4>ReaChR and HuginGAL4>TrpA larvae (Figure 3 C & D) in the original version.

      (9) Need to clarify in the methods how the authors calculated travel distances as a measure of locomotive activity. It's not clear if this is done during larval sleep experiments or in independent experiments. It is also not clear why the y-axes of Figure 2-Figure Supplement 1 are not consistent across the panels. Finally, the authors do see decreases in locomotive activity in PK2-R1>Kir2.1 and in dilp3 mutants, so the conclusions presented in the results section of the paper need to be modified to reflect those results.

      We calculated travel distances from the same video recording datasets used for sleep quantification. We have added this information in Method (line 431-435). As the reviewer indicated, locomotor activity was reduced in a part of conditions/mutants including PK2-R1 > Kir2.1 and dilp3 mutants, and therefore we cannot exclude the possibility that locomotion changes might contribute to sleep phenotypes. On the other hand, a large part of manipulations of Hugin neurons and IPCs caused a sleep increase without significant changes in locomotor activity (Figure 2—figure supplement 1 and Figure 3—figure supplement 1). It is thus likely that Hugin and IPCs contribute to sleep control independent of locomotion, whereas other neurons trapped by PK2-R1 GAL4 might contribute to locomotion control.

      (10) Given the role that hugin neurons play in Drosophila feeding (Schlegel et al, 2016), the authors should include feeding data for the hugin/PK2-R1 manipulations. It is also unclear from the methods if their thresholding for defining sleep can detect feeding behaviors. Changes in feeding behavior could explain some of the reported increases in sleep if feeding is not classified as a waking but is instead picked up as inactivity.

      We agree that this is an important point. According to reviewer’s points, we have added feeding amounts of the wild-type control and the HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae (Figure 3-figure supplement 3). These data suggest that feeding amounts of the HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae are significantly reduced compared to those of the control. Given that our data analysis typically categorized feeding behavior into “moving (not sleep)” (see Materials and Methods) and that HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae showed increased sleep amounts compared to the wild-type control, it is likely that the increased sleep amounts in HuginPC>Kir2.1 larvae are unrelated to changes in feeding behavior.

      (11) The Hugin-IPC localization data (Figure 3E) would be better supported by the use of more specific synaptic and dendritic markers. Specifically, expressing Syt-eGFP (axon marker) in hugin neurons & DenMark (dendritic marker) in IPCs. Using GRASP or P2X2 to demonstrate the anatomical/functional connections between hugin & IPC neurons would also provide better support for this conclusion.

      According to the reviewer’s suggestion, we have added Syt-eGFP signals in HuginPC neurons (Figure 4—figure supplement 1). We also tried DenMark expression in IPCs, but we could not obtain dipl3>DenMark F1 progeny for unknown season. We also applied GRASP to the HuginPC-IPCs interaction, but we could not detect obvious GRASP signals. It is well known that peptidergic transmission is often independent of conventional synapse structures, called as volume transmission, in which peptidergic signals can transmit over a long-range distance to targeting neurons. It is thus possible that IPCs might receive Hugin signals from HuginPC neurons through volume transmission.

      (12) Figure 4 is missing temperature controls for thermal activation experiments. Also missinggenetic control for UAS/+. It would be more convincing to see experiments in Figure 4 with the more specific hug-PC-Gal4 line instead of the broadly expressed hugin-Gal4 line.

      According to reviewer’s comments, we have added the control data in Figure 4.

      (13) Representative images for Figure 4B & 4C would provide better support for the quantifications & conclusions presented.

      According to the reviewer’s suggestions, we show the representative imagine for Figure 4B and 4C (please see Author response image 1). We are, however, afraid that these images might not help readers’ further understanding in addition to the quantitative data, so we have decided to not add these images in the manuscript.

      Author response image 1.

      mCD8::mCherry (top) and CRTC::GFP (bottom) are shown under high-temperature conditions without ("−") or with ("+") hugin neuron activation. "-" denotes a high-temperature genetic control lacking LexAop-TrpA1, thus no thermogenetic activation occurs. CRTC::GFP is shown in pseudocolor.

      (14) A more zoomed-out image of all the IPC neurons in the bath application of hugin peptides (Figure 5D) would help with the interpretation of the results. It's not clear if the authors only measured the same exact neuron in each IPC cluster or if they examined all of the IPC neurons. If they measured all of the IPC neurons, did they observe similar results across the different neurons? How much variability is there in the response of IPC neurons to hugin peptide application?

      For Figure 5, we obtained images of multiple brains from each genotype and quantified the NLI values from all IPC neurons. For reference, we show plots of the CRTC signals of Figure 5C each brain by bran (Author response image 2). We have added detailed information of CRTC analysis in Methods (lines 552-554).

      Author response image 2.

      Distribution of CRTC signals across individual brains. Plots of nuclear localization index (NLI) for individual brains, corresponding to the conditions shown in Figure 5C. The x-axis represents each larval brain preparation, and each dot indicates the NLI value of a single IPC neuron. Horizontal bars represent the median within each brain. These plots illustrate variability both within and across individual brains.

      (15) The conclusion that application of Hug peptides results in dilp3 release is not well supported (Figure 5E). There is a large amount of variation in anti-dilp3 signal. Representative images for these quantifications would be beneficial. The authors also don't directly show that dilp3 vesicles are released. They only see a reduction in antibody accumulation in IPCs. Could there be other reasons for the reduction in accumulation in the IPCs? Would changes in dilp3 gene expression or membrane localization cause a reduction in signal? Showing that actual release of dilp3 is affected by Hug peptides using a reporter like ANF-GFP would be more convincing.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added representative images (Figure 5—figure supplement 2). As for the ex vivo experiments in Fig5, we treated the extracted brain tissues with Hugin/NMU peptides for only 5minutes. It is thus most likely that reduction of Dilps in IPCs is mediated by Hugin/PK2-R1 signal-dependent secretion, rather than transcriptional control and/or degradation of Dilps.

      (16) Show all sleep metrics (total sleep duration, bout #, bout length, and activity) for adult sleep experiments. Showing relative total sleep for the adult experiments is confusing & would benefit from plots of total average sleep in minutes for each genotype.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added the sleep metrics in adults (Figure 6; Figure 6-figure supplement 3).

      (17) The authors can't conclude that expression patterns of PK2-R1 & hug between larvae & adults are "almost comparable." They don't track neurons over development or immortalize neurons in larvae & check expression patterns in adults. They need to show some type of quantification to support these claims. Or revise the text to remove this conclusion.

      We agree. We have changed our augments as follow (line 211-214).

      Interestingly, the expression patterns of PK2-R1 and Hug as well as the morphology of HugPC neurons in adults appeared to be similar to those in larvae (Figure 6—figure supplement 2), implying that the differential roles of Hug in larvae vs adults are likely due to physiological differences in HugPC neurons and/or IPCs.

      (18) For Figure 6, what effect does genetic inactivation of IPCs have on adult sleep? A more specific manipulation of these cells would provide better support for the conclusion that IPC manipulations have distinct effects on larval & adult sleep. The sleep traces for the hugin manipulation & dilp mutants (Figure 6-Figure Supplement 1) also look inconsistent when comparing genetic controls in (Figure 6-Figure Supplement 1D) or when comparing the dilp mutants. Plotting this data as total sleep amount in the day & night (2 separate graphs) would be beneficial. It would also be helpful to see additional sleep traces for these experiments.

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we have added the sleep amounts of added dilp3 and dilp5 adults (Figure 6-figure supplement 1C-D) as well as IPC silencing (Figure6-figure supplement 3D) in a daytime/night time sleep-separated manner.

      (19) For Figure 6, what effect does thermogenetic activation of hugin neurons have on IPC activity? The authors demonstrate in Figure 5 that thermal activation results in an increase in larval IPC activity, but they do not show these experiments in the adult brain. These experiments would provide more support for their conclusion that hugin has differential effects on IPC activity depending on the developmental age (larvae vs adults).

      According to the reviewer’s comments, we performed thermo-activation of hugin neurons and found no significant effects on adult IPCs (see Author response image 3), consists with the ex vivo data in Figure 6.

      Author response image 3.

      (20) A figure legend is needed for Figure 7. The model is not self-explanatory, nor is there an adequate explanation in the discussion section.

      We have added legends (line 781-785).

      (21) Since hugin is known to be downstream of Dh44 in larvae, the discussion needs to include comparison to published work on Dh44 in larvae (Poe et al, 2023). The hugin receptor, PK2R1, is also expressed in Dh44 & DMS neurons (Schlegel et al, 2016), so a discussion of what role Dh44/DMS neurons may play in their model is necessary.

      We agree. We have added discussion as follow in Discussion (line 313-320).

      We cannot rule out the possibility that other neurons could function downstream of HuginPC neurons in sleep regulation. For instance, given that Dh44 neurons in the brain promote arousal (Poe et al. 2023) and are PK2-R1-positive (Schlegel et al. 2016), Hugin might control sleep in part through Dh44 neurons.

      (22) Minor point: Line 97 should say "resulted in a significant sleep increase." Currently, it says "decrease" which is not what is depicted in the figure.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point. We have corrected this.

      (23) Minor point: Figure 5 should be renamed as Figure 4 since the text describing the results in Figure 5A & 5B occurs before the text describing the results in Figure 4.

      We do understand the point the reviewer arose. However, since Fig5A explains the experimental setup of the whole Fig5s, we would like to keep Fig5A at the original position.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      First, the study would benefit from a more comprehensive discussion of previous research, particularly the work by Schlegel et al. (2016) and Melcher and Pankratz (2006). A key inconsistency that should be addressed is the observation that hugin mutant larvae exhibit reduced body size and feeding behavior, which may influence Dilp2 secretion. The selective effect on Dilp3 and Dilp5 without affecting Dilp2 warrants further clarification. Conducting conditional gene expression experiments to control hugin, dilp3, and dilp5 expression, along with neuronal activity modulation, would help determine whether the observed effects are direct or secondary consequences.

      According to the review’s comments, we tried to manipulate neuronal activity in IPCs, but unfortunately, expression of Kir2.1 in IPCs caused die or very weak animals. Instead, we cited a recent paper that shows a differential secretion of Dilp2 and Dilp6 in a stimulant-dependent manner (Suzawa et al. PNAS 2025) and added more discussion about selective Dilp3/5 secretion by Hugin-PK2-R1 signals (line 275-297).

      Second, the specificity of IPC secretion mechanisms should be clarified. Given that IPCs coexpress Dilp2, Dilp3, and Dilp5, it remains unclear how the pathway selectively modulates Dilp3 and Dilp5 while leaving Dilp2 unaffected. Additional experiments, such as electron microscopy, could provide insights into whether anatomical differences in vesicular pools influence peptide secretion. Since hugin mutants are reported to have reduced body size, confirming that Dilp2 secretion remains truly unchanged is crucial for eliminating potential indirect effects.

      We thank this reviewer for the valuable suggestions. Since the selective Dilp secretion mechanisms in IPCs are not the main scope in this paper, we would like to attempt detailed EM analysis in next studies. We cited a recent paper that shows a differential secretion of Dilp2 and Dilp6 from IPCs in a stimulant-dependent manner (Suzawa et al. PNAS 2025) and added more discussion about selective Dilp3/5 secretion by Hugin-PK2-R1 signals (line 275-297).

      Third, the study should explore the potential role of alternative circuits, such as the HuginPCDH44 pathway, in sleep regulation. The observation that DH44 mutants exhibit even greater sleep amounts than PK2-R1 mutants suggests the involvement of additional regulatory mechanisms. Prior studies indicate that HuginPC neurons may influence DH44 neuron activity, which could impact sleep. Furthermore, recent findings link DH44 with starvation-induced sleep loss in adult flies. Discussing and experimentally investigating the HuginPC-DH44 axis in larval sleep regulation would provide additional depth to the study.

      As far as we understand, any direct evidence for HuginPC→DH44 pathway has not been reported in larvae as well as adults. Instead, DH44 influences Hugin neuron activity in adults (King et al. 2017). We thus examined whether optogenetic DH44 activation could influence HuginPC activity using CRTC analysis, but unfortunately, we could not detect significant changes in HuginPC activity.

      Given that PK2-R1 is expressed in DH44-positive neurons (Schelgel et al 2016) and that DH44-positive neurons are localized at the regions to which HuginPC neurons innervate, it is still possible that the HuginPC→DH44 pathway might function in parallel to the HuginPC→IPCs pathway. We feel that this is quite an interesting possibility and should be a nice scope in the next paper.

      Fourth, validating the functional connectivity between HuginPC neurons and IPCs using calcium imaging would significantly enhance the study. Employing real-time calcium imaging with GCaMPs would provide direct evidence of synaptic activity between these neuronal populations. Such data would strengthen the claim that the observed sleep regulatory effects result from direct neural communication rather than secondary systemic influences.

      We agree. Indeed, we tried Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging of HuginPC neurons and IPCs in living larvae as well as using ex vivo preparations, and realized that it was quite technically difficult to obtain reliable Ca<sup>2+</sup> dynamics data in the brain of living larvae/ex vivo brain tissue. Therefore, instead of live Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging, we performed the CRTC analysis using fixed brain preparations. We have added the mention that we tried Ca<sup>2+</sup> imaging in the larval brain, but it did not work well (line 555-558).

      Finally, a more detailed discussion of developmental differences in sleep regulatory mechanisms would be beneficial. The manuscript should address why genes involved in sleep modulation during development may function differently from their roles in adult sleep regulation. Providing a conceptual framework or experimental evidence to explain these developmental differences would enhance the study's contribution to understanding the evolution of sleep circuits. Clarifying how these findings fit into broader sleep regulation models would increase the impact of the research.

      We agree. We would like to add discussions about how factors/circuits involved in sleep modulation during development may function differently from their roles in adult sleep regulation as follows (line 349-371), as it is rather difficult to discuss why.

      It is thus possible that Hugin/PK2-R1 signaling along the HugPC-IPCs circuitry is suppressed in adults. IPCs in adults receive multiple positive and negative modulatory inputs through GPCRs including the metabotropic GABA<sub>B</sub> receptors (Enell et al., 2010), which suppresses IPC activity and Dilp release in adult IPCs (Enell et al., 2010). It is thus plausible that such negative modulatory inputs to IPCs in adults might counteract with the Hugin/PK2-R1 axis to suppress Dilp release. In addition, our data suggest that Dilps modulate sleep amount in the opposite directions in larvae and adults (Figure 7). Comparing the expression levels and activities of GPCRs in larval and adult IPCs would be essential to better understand how the same modulatory signals over the course of development come to exert differential impacts on sleep. Interestingly, Hugin in adults appears irrelevant for the baseline sleep amount but is required for homeostatic regulation of sleep (Schwarz et al., 2021). Thus, testing if Hugin/PK2-R1 axis is involved in the homeostatic regulation of larval sleep, and how such a system compares to its adult counterpart, may further provide mechanistic insights into how homeostatic sleep regulation matures over development.

      By addressing these aspects, the manuscript will provide a clearer, more robust, and wellsupported analysis of larval sleep regulation. These refinements will help improve the study's clarity and impact, ensuring that its findings are effectively communicated to the research community.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 97: "Silencing neurons expressing Oamb and PK2-R1 resulted in a significant sleep decrease?" But there is an increase in sleep amounts from Figure 1A. (Typo error).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this typo. We have corrected this typo in the revised version.

      (2) Line139: "HugPC and IPCs labeled by Dilp3-GAL4 are located in close proximity to each other." While proximity does not equal synaptic connections, direct connectivity of HugPC and IPCs was already shown in larval connectome analyses with HugPC providing the strongest input of larval IPCs (Hückesfeld et al. eLife 2021). This could be cited in this context instead.

      We agree. We have cited this paper in References (line 163).

      (3) Figure 2 Supplement 1: Locomotion speed is affected in PK2-R1 knockouts; what is the significance regarding the observed sleep increase?

      We agree that this is a very important point. As the reviewer pointed out, since locomotion speed was reduced in PK2-R1 KO larvae, sleep increase phenotype in PK2-R1 KO larvae might be in part due to reduction of locomotion. On the other hand, IPCs silencing by Kir2.1caused sleep increase phenotype without significant changes in locomotion (Figure 2; Figure 2-figure supplement 1). It is thus possible that since PK2-R1 is broadly expressed in the nervous system in addition to IPCs (Figure 2), PK2-R1 neurons other than IPCs might contribute to locomotion control.

      (4) Why are Dilp3 levels changing (increasing) in adult IPCs after PK-2 treatment? This is not mentioned in the text and is not discussed at all.

      As the reviewer indicated, this data is unexpected to us. At this moment, we could only assume that PK-2 could act in larval and adult IPCs in a different manner. We have added this sentence in Results (line 211-214).

      (5) It has been shown in other publications that Dilps play a role in sleep regulation (Cong et al., Sleep 2015), this study should be cited.

      We have cited this paper in References (line 224).

      (6) The order of discussing figure panels is sometimes confusing, e.g. Figure 6C is discussed at the very end after 6D-F.

      We agree. Indeed, we discussed a lot about this order during preparation of the first draft. However, we finally decided the current order, as grouping “sleep phenotype data” and “ex vivo data” should be easier to understand for readers. We thus keep the current order in the revised submission.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important article reports on the role of specific interneurons in the motion processing circuitry of the fruit fly, and marshals convincing evidence from neural recording, genetic manipulation, and behavioral analysis. A significant result ties the activity of C2/C3 neurons to the temporal resolution of the motion vision system. It remains unclear whether disrupting this pathway affects the dynamics of vision more generally.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Henning et al. examine the impact of GABAergic feedback inhibition on the motion-sensitive pathway of flies. Based on a previous behavioral screen, the authors determined that C2 and C3, two GABAergic inhibitory feedback neurons in the optic lobes of the fly, are required for the optomotor response. Through a series of calcium imaging and disruption experiments, connectomics analysis, and follow-up behavioral assays, the authors concluded that C2 and C3 play a role in temporally sharpening visual motion responses. While this study employs a comprehensive array of experimental approaches, I have some reservations about the interpretation of the results in their current form. I strongly encourage the authors to provide additional data to solidify their conclusions. This is particularly relevant in determining whether this is a general phenomenon affecting vision or a specific effect on motion vision. Knowing this is also important for any speculation on the mechanisms of the observed temporal deficiencies.

      Strengths:

      This study uses a variety of experiments to provide a functional, anatomical, and behavioral description of the role of GABAergic inhibition in the visual system. This comprehensive data is relevant for anyone interested in understanding the intricacies of visual processing in the fly.

      Weaknesses:

      The most fundamental criticism of this study is that the authors present a skewed view of the motion vision pathway in their results. While this issue is discussed, it is important to demonstrate that there are no temporal deficiencies in the lamina, which could be the case since C2 and C3, as noted in the connectomics analysis, project strongly to laminar interneurons. If the input dynamics are indeed disrupted, then the disruption seen in the motion vision pathway would reflect disruptions in temporal processing in general and suggest that these deficiencies are inherited downstream. A simple experiment could test this. Block C2, C3, and both together using Kir2.1 and shibiere independently, then record the ERG. Alternatively, one could image any other downstream neuron from the lamina that does not receive C2 or C3 input.

      Figure 6c. More analysis is required here, since the authors claim to have found a loss in inhibition (ND). However, the difference in excitation appears similar, at least in absolute magnitude (see panel 6c), for PD direction for T4 C2 and C3 block. Also I predict that C2&C3 block statistically different from C3 only, why? In any case, it would be good to discuss the clear trend in the PD direction by showing the distribution of responses as violin plots to better understand the data. It would be also good to have some raw traces to be able to see the differences more clearly, not only polar plots and averages.

      The behavioral experiments are done with a different disruptor than the physiological ones. One blocks chemical synapses, the other shunts the cells. While one would expect similar results in both, this is not a given. It would be great if the authors could test the behavioral experiments with kir2.1 too.

      Comments on revisions:

      I have no further comments.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The work by Henning et al. explores the role of feedback inhibition in motion vision circuits, providing the first identification of inhibitory inheritance in motion-selective T4 and T5 cells of Drosophila. Among the strengths of this work is the verification of the GABAergic nature of C2 and C3 with genetic and immunohistochemical approaches. In addition, double-silencing C2&C3 experiments help to establish a functional role for these cells. The authors holistically use the Drosophila toolbox to identify neural morphologies, synaptic locations, network connectivity, neuronal functions and the behavioral output.

      A limitation of the study is that the mediating neural correlates from C2&C3 to T4&T5 are not clarified, rather Mi1 is found to be one of them. In the future, the same set of silencing experiments performed for C2-Mi1 could be extended to C2 &C3-Tm1 or Tm4 to find the T5 neural mediators of this feedback inhibition loop. Future experiments might also disentangle the parallel or separate function of C2 and C3 neurons.

      In summary, this work advances our current knowledge in Drosophila motion vision and sets the way for further exploring the intricate details of direction selective computations.

      Comments on revisions:

      A label for T5 is missing from Figure 5b. Thank you for addressing our concerns and considering each of our suggestions.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Henning et al. examine the impact of GABAergic feedback inhibition on the motion-sensitive pathway of flies. Based on a previous behavioral screen, the authors determined that C2 and C3, two GABAergic inhibitory feedback neurons in the optic lobes of the fly, are required for the optomotor response. Through a series of calcium imaging and disruption experiments, connectomics analysis, and follow-up behavioral assays, the authors concluded that C2 and C3 play a role in temporally sharpening visual motion responses. While this study employs a comprehensive array of experimental approaches, I have some reservations about the interpretation of the results in their current form. I strongly encourage the authors to provide additional data to solidify their conclusions. This is particularly relevant in determining whether this is a general phenomenon affecting vision or a specific effect on motion vision. Knowing this is also important for any speculation on the mechanisms of the observed temporal deficiencies.

      Strengths:

      This study uses a variety of experiments to provide a functional, anatomical, and behavioral description of the role of GABAergic inhibition in the visual system. This comprehensive data is relevant for anyone interested in understanding the intricacies of visual processing in the fly.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The most fundamental criticism of this study is that the authors present a skewed view of the motion vision pathway in their results. While this issue is discussed, it is important to demonstrate that there are no temporal deficiencies in the lamina, which could be the case since C2 and C3, as noted in the connectomics analysis, project strongly to laminar interneurons. If the input dynamics are indeed disrupted, then the disruption seen in the motion vision pathway would reflect disruptions in temporal processing in general and suggest that these deficiencies are inherited downstream. A simple experiment could test this. Block C2, C3, and both together using Kir2.1 and Shibire independently, then record the ERG. Alternatively, one could image any other downstream neuron from the lamina that does not receive C2 or C3 input.

      Given the prominent connectivity of C2 and C3 to lamina neurons, we actually expected that lamina processing is also affected. We did the experiment of silencing C2 and recording in the lamina neuron L2 and found no significant difference in their response profile (Author response image 1).

      Author response image 1.

      Calcium responses of L2 axon terminals to full field ON and PFF flashes for controls (grey, N=8 flies, 59 cells) or while genetically silencing C2 using shibire<sup>ts</sup> (magenta, N=4 flies, 26 cells). Traces show mean +- SEM.

      We could include these data in the main manuscript, but we do not really feel comfortable in claiming that C2 and C3 have a specific role in motion processing only, even if it was predominantly affecting medulla neurons. To our knowledge, how peripheral visual circuitry contributes to any other visual behaviors, such as object detection, including the pursuit of mating partners, or escape behaviors, is not well understood. Instead, we added a sentence to the discussion stating that our work does not exclude that, given their wide connectivity, C2 and C3 are also involved in other visual computations.

      (2) Figure 6c. More analysis is required here, since the authors claim to have found a loss in inhibition (ND). However, the difference in excitation appears similar, at least in absolute magnitude (see panel 6c), for PD direction for the T4 C2 and C3 blocks. Also, I predict that C2 & C3 block statistically different from C3 only, why? In any case, it would be good to discuss the clear trend in the PD direction by showing the distribution of responses as violin plots to better understand the data. It would also be good to have some raw traces to be able to see the differences more clearly, not only polar plots and averages.

      We apologize: The plots in the manuscript show the mean across all cells, but the statistics were done more conservatively, across flies. We corrected this mismatch and the figure now shows the mean ± ste across flies after first averaging across cells within each fly. Thank you for pointing this out. Since we recorded n=6-8 flies per genotype, we did not include violin plots, which would indeed make sense if we showed data for each cell.

      (3) The behavioral experiments are done with a different disruptor than the physiological ones. One blocks chemical synapses, the other shunts the cells. While one would expect similar results in both, this is not a given. It would be great if the authors could test the behavioral experiments with Kir2.1, too.

      We have tried this experiment, but unfortunately, flies were not walking well on the ball, and we were not able to obtain data of sufficient quality.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The work by Henning et al. explores the role of feedback inhibition in motion vision circuits, providing the first identification of inhibitory inheritance in motion-selective T4 and T5 cells of Drosophila. This work advances our current knowledge in Drosophila motion vision and sets the way for further exploring the intricate details of direction-selective computations.

      Strengths:

      Among the strengths of this work is the verification of the GABAergic nature of C2 and C3 with genetic and immunohistochemical approaches. In addition, double-silencing C2&C3 experiments help to establish a functional role for these cells. The authors holistically use the Drosophila toolbox to identify neural morphologies, synaptic locations, network connectivity, neuronal functions, and the behavioral output.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors claim that C2 and C3 neurons are required for direction selectivity, as per the publication's title; however, even with their double silencing, the directional T4 & T5 responses are not completely abolished. Therefore, the contribution of this inherited feedback in direction-selective computations is not a prerequisite for its emergence, and the title could be re-adjusted.

      We adjusted the title to “are involved in motion detection.”

      Connectivity is assessed in one out of the two available connectome datasets; therefore, it would make the study stronger if the same connectivity patterns were identified in both datasets.

      We did not assume large differences between the datasets because Nern et al. 2025 described no major sexual dimorphism. To verify this, we now plotted C2 and C3 connectivity from the three major EM datasets that include C2/C3 connectivity, the female FAFB dataset (Zheng et al. 2018, Dorkenwald et al. 2024, Schlegel et al. 2024) the male visual system (Nern et al. 2025), and the 7-column dataset (Takemura et al. 2015) and see no major differences (Author response image 2 and Author response image 3).

      Author response image 2.

      Relative pres- and post-synaptic counts for C3 from 3 different data sets. Shown are up to ten post- or pre-synaptic partner neurons.

      Author response image 3.

      Relative pres- and post-synaptic counts for C2 from 3 different data sets. Shown are up to ten post- or pre-synaptic partner neurons.

      The mediating neural correlates from C2 & C3 to T4 & T5 are not clarified; rather, Mi1 is found to be one of them. The study could be improved if the same set of silencing experiments performed for C2-Mi1 were extended to C2 &C3-Tm1 or Tm4 to find the T5 neural mediators of this feedback inhibition loop. Stating more clearly from the connectomic analysis, the potential T5 mediators would be equally beneficial. Future experiments might also disentangle the parallel or separate functions of C2 and C3 neurons.

      We fully agree that one could go down this route. Given the widespread connectivity of C2 and C3, and the fact that these are time-consuming experiments with often complex genetics, we had decided to instead study the “compound effect” of C2 and C3 silencing by analyzing T4/T5 physiological properties and motion-guided behavior. We now explicitly explain this logic by saying, “To understand the compound effect of C2 and C3 on motion processing, we focused on the direction-selective T4/T5 neurons, which are downstream of many of the neurons that C2 and C3 directly connect to.”

      Finally, the authors' conclusions derive from the set of experiments they performed in a logical manner. Nonetheless, the Discussion could benefited from a more extensive explanation on the following matters: why do the ON-selective C2 and C3 neurons control OFF-generated behaviors, why the T4&T5 responses after C2&C3 silencing differ between stationary and moving stimuli and finally why C2 and not C3 had an effect in T5 DS responses, as the connectivity suggests C3 outputting to two out of the four major T5 cholinergic inputs.

      Apart from the behavioral screen results, we only tested ON edges in our more detailed behavioral characterizations. And while we show phenotypes for the OFF-DS cell T5, it is well established that inhibitory cells that respond to one contrast polarity can function in the pathway with the opposite contrast polarity (e.g., the OFF-selective Mi9 in the ON pathway). We realized that our narrative in the results section was misleading in this regard (we had given the ON selectivity of C2/C3 as one argument why we first focused on the ON pathway) and eliminated this argument.

      For the differential involvement of C2/C3 for T4/T5 responses to stationary and moving stimuli (C2 and C3 silencing affects both T4 and T5 DS responses, but mostly T4 flash responses): We mostly took the disinhibition of flash responses in T4 as a motivation to look more specifically at a potential role in motion-computation. We now added a sentence about the potential emergence of these flash responses to the already extensive discussion paragraph “How could inhibitory feedback neurons affect motion detection in the ON pathway?”

      Last, we added a discussion point about the relationship between C2 and C3 connectivity and the functional consequences, and discussed the fact that C3 connectivity alone does not correlate with a functional role of C3 (alone) in DS computation.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This article is about the neural circuitry underlying motion vision in the fruit fly. Specifically, it regards the roles of two identified neurons, called C2 and C3, that form columnar connections between neurons in the lamina and medulla, including neurons that are presynaptic to the elementary motion detectors T4 and T5. The approach takes advantage of specific fly lines in which one can disable the synaptic outputs of either or both of the C2/3 cell types. This is combined with optical recording from various neurons in the circuit, and with behavioral measurements of the turning reaction to moving stimuli.

      The experiments are planned logically. The effects of silencing the C2/C3 neurons are substantial in size. The dominant effect is to make the responses of downstream neurons more sustained, consistent with a circuit role in feedback or feedforward inhibition. Silencing C2/C3 also makes the motion-sensitive neurons T4/T5 less direction-selective. However, the turning response of the fly is affected only in subtle ways. Detection of motion appears unaffected. But the response fails to discriminate between two motion pulses that happen in close succession. One can conclude that C2/C3 are involved in the motion vision circuit, by sharpening responses in time, though they are not essential for its basic function of motion detection.

      Strengths:

      The combination of cutting-edge methods available in fruit fly neuroscience. Well-planned experiments carried out to a high standard. Convincing effects documenting the role of these neurons in neural processing and behavior.

      Weaknesses:

      The report could benefit from a mechanistic argument linking the effects at the level of single neurons, the resulting neural computations in elementary motion detectors, and the altered behavioral response to visual motion.

      We agree that we cannot fully draw this mechanistic argument, but we also do not think that this is a realistic goal of this study. Even in a scenario where one would measure the temporal and spatial properties of “all” neurons that are connected to C2 and C3, this would likely not reveal the full mechanisms linking the single neurons to DS computation, but would require silencing specific connections, or specific molecular components of the connection, or could be complemented by models. A beautiful example where such a mechanistic understanding was achieved, recently published in Nature, essentially focused on a single synaptic connection (between Mi9 and T4) (Groschner et al. 2024), and built on extensive work that had already highlighted the importance of these neurons. We would further argue that the field does not have a good understanding of how T4/T5 responses are translated into behavior. Although possible pathways emerge from connectomes, it is for example not understood why the temporal frequency tuning of T4/T5 substantially differs from the temporal frequency tuning of the optomotor response.

      We therefore would like to highlight that the focus of our study was not to connect all those pieces, but rather to highlight the hitherto unknown overall importance of inhibitory feedback neurons for visual computations along the visual hierarchy, from individual neuron properties, via DS computation, to the temporal precision of the optomotor response.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Line 52: "The functional significance of feedback neurons, particularly inhibitory feedback mechanisms, in early visual processing is not understood."

      This is incorrect not only because it is referred to as a general statement, but also because many studies have examined inhibition in flies. It may not be solely GABAergic inhibition, but that is just one type. While some discussions later address feedback from horizontal cells in the retina, etc., there is no mention of work on color vision, which requires feedback. Please rephrase.

      We now say “visual motion processing” in this sentence, and added a sentence on color vision: “... color-opponent signalling requires reciprocal inhibition between photoreceptors as well as feedback inhibition from distal medulla (Dm) neurons. (Schnaitmann et al., 2018, Heath et al., 2020, Schnaitmann et al., 2024). “

      (2) Line 197: "Because a previous studies" One or many?, but more important, please cite them.

      We corrected to “a previous study” and cite Tuthill et al. 2013

      (3) Line 172: I noticed a few minor grammatical errors and wording issues, such as the use of "we next" twice in one sentence. "To next identify potential GABAergic neurons that are important for motion computation in the ON pathway, we next intersected 12 InSITE-Gal4." I am bad at picking them out, but since I noticed them, I would strongly suggest looking at the text carefully again.

      We deleted one occurrence of ‘next’, thank you for catching that.

      (4) Question to the authors. Why did you use twice independent lines and not checkers for the white noise analysis in Figure 3e?

      We used flickering bars because many visual system neurons tested in our lab respond with a better signal-to-noise ratio as compared to checkerboards. Flickering bars also appear to be more suited to isolate the spatial surround of neurons. This type of stimulus has been successfully used in previous studies to extract receptive fields of neurons in the fly visual system (Arenz et al. 2017; Leong et al., 2016, Salazar-Gatzimas et al. 2016; Fisher et al. 2015, …).

      (5) Line 248: "Because C2 emerged as a prominent candidate from the behavioral screen, we focused on C2 and asked how silencing C2 affects..." Please state how here. I would need to go to the methods.

      We added a sentence “C2 was silenced by expression of UAS-shibire<sup>ts</sup> (UAS-shi<sup>ts</sup>) for temporal control of the inhibition of synaptic activity.”

      (6) Much of the work in the blowfly uses picrotoxinin to block GABAergic inhibition in the visual motion pathway. It would be useful to mention some of this early work and its results, particularly that of Single et al. (1997). It might be interesting to reinterpret their results.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We added this paragraph to the discussion: ‘Work in blowflies has found a severe impact of GABAergic signaling for DS in LPTCs downstream of T4 and T5 cells, using application of picrotoxin to the whole brain (Single et al. 1997; Schmid and Bülthoff 1988). Although the loss of DS in LPTCs could originate from direct inhibitory synapses onto LPTCs (Mauss et al. 2015; Ammer et al. 2023), the disruption of GABAergic signaling in upstream circuitry, which reduces DS in T4 and T5, may also contribute to the phenotype seen in LPTCs.’

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The following set of corrections aims to better the scientific and presentation aspects of this work.

      (1) The title of the work implies that C2 and C3 neurons are required for motion processing, whereas the study shows their participation in motion computations, which persists post their silencing. Therefore, "Inhibitory columnar feedback neurons contribute to Drosophila motion processing" would be a more appropriate title.

      We rephrased the title to say that inhibitory feedback neurons “are involved in” motion processing.

      (2) The morphology of C2 and C3 neurons, i.e., ramifications in medulla & cell body in medulla and axonal targeting to lamina, implies their feedback role. It would be important to mention the specific feedback loop they participate in and the role of Mi1 more extensively in lines 36, 120.

      We find it hard to speculate on the specific feedback loops that C2 and C3 are involved in from their widespread input and output connectivity. If we had, we would have wanted to support this by functional measurements of this specific loop, which was not the goal of this study.

      (3) In lines 55-89, the authors explore the instances of feedback inhibition within and across species and modalities. For the Drosophila visual example (lines 76-89), given that it also addresses motion circuits, the following studies should be included:

      Ammer, G., Serbe-Kamp, E., Mauss, A.S., et al. Multilevel visual motion opponency in Drosophila. Nat Neurosci 26, 1894-1905 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41593-023-01443-z. Mabuchi Y, Cui X, Xie L, Kim H, Jiang T, Yapici N. Visual feedback neurons fine-tune Drosophila male courtship via GABA-mediated inhibition. Curr Biol. 2023 Sep 25;33(18):3896-3910.e7. doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2023.08.034.

      We added a sentence on the Ammer et al. finding to the introduction. Since the introduction paragraph focuses on known physiological effects within the visual system, we did not find a good fit for the Mabuchi et al. study, which focuses on serotonergic feedback neurons with a role far downstream in courtship behavior.

      (4) In lines 102-103, the following work should be referenced: Groschner LN, Malis JG, Zuidinga B, Borst A. A biophysical account of multiplication by a single neuron. Nature. 2022 Mar;603(7899):119-123. doi: 10.1038/s41586-022-04428-3.

      We cited a few of the many papers that used “modeling frameworks” and selected the ones focusing on the entire feedforward circuitry. To also give credit to the Borst lab, we instead added Serbe et al. 2016 here.

      (5) In lines 107-108, the Braun et al. (2023) study has not performed Rdl knockdown experiments in T4 cells; hence, it needs to be better clarified in the text.

      We corrected this in the text.

      (6) Even though the dataset was previously published, a summary plot of the different phenotypes would be very helpful to the reader. Moreover, in line 131, as the study focuses on motion vision, it would be better to use "early motion visual processing" rather than "early visual processing.”

      We added a summary plot of the behavioral screen data to Supplementary figure 1, and rephrased previous line 131.

      (7) The first result section title excludes C3 neurons, even though in lines 172-179 they are addressed; therefore, the C3 inclusion is suggested as in "GABAergic C2 and C3 neurons control behavioral responses to motion cues". The term "required" should be excluded from the title as the other neuronal types encountered in the InSITE drivers were never quantified; thus, the "behavioral requirement" might come from these other neurons as well.

      From the experiments shown in this paragraph alone we cannot make conclusive claims about C3, as it was also weakly visible in one of our genetic control in the intersectional strategy that we took (we had written: “This strategy also revealed other GABAergic cell types, including the columnar neuron C3 and the large amacrine cell CT1 which were however also weakly present in the gad1-p65AD control).

      We changed the title of this paragraph to: A forward genetic behavioral screen identifies GABAergic C2 neurons to be involved in motion detection.

      (8) In line 142, it should be clearly stated that the MultiColor FlpOut technique was used and should also be cited: Nern A, Pfeiffer BD, Rubin GM. Optimized tools for multicolor stochastic labeling reveal diverse stereotyped cell arrangements in the fly visual system. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2015 Jun 2;112(22):E2967-76. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1506763112.

      We did not use MCFO clones, but simple Flp-out clones, and the genotype and reference for this were given in the methods: UAS-FRT-CD2y+-RFT-mCD8::GFP; UAS-Flp , (Wong et al. 2002). To make this clearer, we now also cite (Wong et al. 2002) in the results section.

      (9) In Figure 1c, a description of RFP should be written as it is already in Supplementary Figure 1c.

      We added this to the Figure caption.

      (10) In line 172, "next" is redundant as it was previously used at the beginning of the sentence.

      Removed

      (11) In line 175, based on both figures that the authors refer to, instead of C2, C3 should be written.

      We do indeed see C3 labeled in the images, but also in a gad1-p65AD control. We thus cannot be sure if C3 indeed reflects the intersection pattern. However, the three lines shown in Figure 1d clearly also label C2, which is not seen in the control condition.

      (12) In line 184, a split-C2 line is used (and a split C3 as in Supplementary Figure 2). It would enhance the credibility of the work and even be appropriate afterwards to use the word "requirement" if this split-C2 line was used for behavioral experiments, as in Gohl et al., 2011, and Sillies et al.,2013 studies.

      We are indeed using the same split-C2 line for imaging and for behavioral experiments in Figure 7. We see Figure 1 (and with that, Silies et al. 2013) as a first pass screen, from which we obtained candidates, which we then more thoroughly tested throughout the remaining manuscript, with more specific lines. We are no longer using the word “requirement”

      (13) In lines 186-188, is DenMark used as a postsynaptic marker? If yes, an additional control would be the use of Discs-large (DLG) as a postsynaptic marker, as DenMark would not be restricted to postsynaptic densities.

      Yes, we used DenMark as written in the sentence “we expressed GFP-tagged Synaptotagmin (Syt::GFP) to label pre-synapses together with the dendritic marker DenMark (Nicolai et al., 2010)”. Since our claims about widespread C2 and C3 connectivity are further supported by connectomics, we did not use another postsynaptic marker.

      (14) In line 191, L2 is mentioned as presynaptic, whereas in Figure 2b is clearly postsynaptic.

      We write “This revealed that C2 forms several presynaptic contacts with the lamina neurons L5, L1, and L2” . L5, L1, and L2 are hence postsynaptic to C2, which is what is plotted in Figure 2b. 

      (15) In line 197, the "a" in "because a previous studies" should be removed, and these studies should be cited as the authors do in line 514.

      Done as suggested.

      (16) In line 1191, the figure title uses the term "required", whereas the plotted data suggest that T4 and T5 responses remain DS after C2&C3 silencing. Rephrasing to "C2 and C3 affect direction-selective.." would be better suited.

      We replaced “required” with “contribute to”

      (17) In the legend of Figure 2b, the "Counts of synapses" is misleading. The number plotted refers to the percentage of synapse counts from the target neuron.

      Corrected.

      (18) A general question about the C2 and C3 ON selectivity: How would the authors explain the OFF deficits from the published behavioral screening in Supplementary Figure 1a? Do the other InSITE neurons contribute to it? This needs to be further elaborated in the discussion.

      A neuron being ON selective does not imply that it is functionally required in the ON pathway only. In fact, Mi9, a major component of the ON pathway (even if not “required” under many stimulus conditions), is OFF selective.

      Furthermore, both we (Ramos-Traslosheros and Silies, 2021) and others (Salazar-Gatzimas et al. 2019) have shown that both ON and OFF signals are combined in ON and OFF pathways, which is further supported by connectomics data. We clarified the transition from physiology to function in the results section, as already explained above.

      (19) In line 216, the authors' image from layer M1, but the reasoning behind this choice is missing. The explanation gap intensifies after you proceed with further examining the layer-specific responses in Supplementary Figure 2. Is this because C2 and C3 receive their inputs in M1, as is insinuated in line 219?

      As Supplementary Figure 2 shows, we initially imaged from all layers of the medulla, where C2 arborizes. Because the response properties, including kinetics, weren’t different, we had no reason to believe that C2 is highly compartmentalized. We thus subsequently focused on layer M1, where amplitudes were highest. We clarified this in the text.

      (20) In line 229, it should be clear whether the STRFs come from M1 measurements. STRF analysis in M5, M8, and M9/10 also verifies that the C2, C3 multicolumnar span would further strengthen the results. Given the focus of the work in Mi1 and T4/T5, Mi1-C2 connections should be clarified in terms of which medulla layer they formulate. Additionally, the reasoning behind showing in Figure 3 STRFs from M1 measurements, even though Supplementary Figure 2b implies equal responses in M9/10, where also Tm1 and Tm4 output from C3, should be explained.

      We never recorded STRFs in the silenced condition and make no claims about C2 changing spatial properties of Mi1. We added the information that STRFs were recorded in layer M1 to the figure caption. We checked the specific connectivity of C2 and Mi1 and they indeed connect in M1 (Author response image 4), but regardless of this result, there is no evidence for compartmentalization in these columnar neurons.

      Author response image 4.

      Image of a C2 (blue) and Mi1 (yellow) neuron from EM Data (FAFB). Circles depict synapses from C2 to Mi1 in layer M1 of the medulla.

      (21) In Figure 3e, the statistical significance or lack thereof is not visible at the bar plot.

      Consistently throughout the manuscript, we now just indicate if a comparison is significant. If nothing is shown, it means that it is not.

      To clarify this, we added a sentence to the statistics section in the methods now saying: We show significant differences in figures using asterisks (p<0.05 *,p<0.01 **, p<0.001***). Non-significant differences are not further indicated.

      Please note that based on another reviewer comment, we also adapted the analysis of the kernels. This changed the statistics to be significant for the timing of the on peak response (Figure 3e).’

      (22) In line 249, it is mentioned that the strongest C2 connection is Mi1; this does not derive from the data shown in Figure 2b.

      We intended to look at medulla neurons, and Mi1 is the most connected medulla neuron to C2. We clarified that in the text, which now reads: “Because C2 emerged as a prominent candidate from the behavioral screen, we focused on C2 and asked how silencing C2 affects temporal and spatial filter properties of the medulla neurons that provide direct input to T4 neurons. We chose to test Mi1 as it is the medulla neuron most strongly connected to C2.”

      (23) The result section title "C2 & C3 neurons shape response properties of the ON pathway medulla neuron Mi1" does not include C3 results. This would be fundamental to have. As previously mentioned, the neural correlates of this inhibitory feedback loop should be clearly defined, and the current version of this work evades doing so.

      We corrected the title. As discussed elsewhere, it was not the goal of this study to work the specific contributions of C2 (and C3) to all neurons they connect to, but rather focus on the compound effect for motion detection.

      (24) In line 276, the following work should be cited: Maisak MS, Haag J, Ammer G, Serbe E, Meier M, Leonhardt A, Schilling T, Bahl A, Rubin GM, Nern A, Dickson BJ, Reiff DF, Hopp E, Borst A. A directional tuning map of Drosophila elementary motion detectors. Nature. 2013 Aug 8;500(7461):212-6. doi: 10.1038/nature12320.

      We added the citation.

      (25) In line 273, the title implies the investigation of the spatial filtering of T4 and T5 cells. This does not take place in the respective result section.

      We changed the title to: “C2 and C3 shape temporal and spatial response properties of T4 and T5 neurons.”

      (26) In line 280, Kir2.1 is used, whereas previously thermogenetic silencing with Shibirets was preferred; could the authors elaborate on this choice in the text, for example, genetic reasons?

      We generally prefer shibire[ts] because of its inducible nature. However, our T4/T5 recordings too included more stimuli (motion stimuli) than the Mi1 recordings, and the effect of shi[ts] mediated silencing by pre-heating the flies (as established by Joesch et al. 2010) was not longlasting enough for these experiments, which is why we used Kir2.1. In a previous set of experiments, we had tried incubating flies while imaging, but this induced too large movements of the brain and T4/T5 recordings were not stable enough.

      (27) In lines 290-291, T5 ON suppression is found to be affected by C2 silencing, but the bar plot in Figure 5b uses the OFF-step data. It would be best if the ON-step data for T5 cells were also plotted.

      ON-step data for T5 are plotted in Supplementary Fig. 3e

      (28) In line 288, "when C2 was also blocked", "also" should be included, as you are referring to double silencing.

      Sorry for the confusion, we called the wrong figure in that sentence. Here, we wanted to point at the increased response of T4 to the ON-step upon C2 silencing, which was quantified in Supplementary Fig. 3e.

      (29) In line 312, it is important to mention in the discussion why it is the case that C2 and not C3 had an effect on T5 DS responses. C2 outputs to Tm1, whereas C3 to Tm1 and Tm4, based on Figure 2b, with Tm1 and Tm4 being one of the four major cholinergic T5 inputs. Hence, it would be natural to think that C3 and not C2 would affect T5 responses.

      We addressed this in the discussion.

      (30) In lines 326-328, it is crucial to mention the neural correlates that connect C2 and C3 to T4 and T5. Additionally, the Shinomiya et al. (2019) study shows C3 to T4 connections, which are mentioned in the discussion and should be cited in line 429.

      We do not think that mentioning neural correlates at this point is crucial, as these sentences were concluding a paragraph in which we link C2/C3 silencing to T4/T5 responses. We also do not know the neural correlates (but for Mi1) so this would not be accurate.

      We have been mentioning C3 to T4 connection in both the results and discussion, and our analysis (Figure 2) stems from the FAFB dataset. We added citations to both results and discussion.

      (31) In Figure 6a, compared to Figure 3b, the term compass plots is used instead of polar plots. It would be best to use one consistent term. Additionally, in Figure 6c, it is not mentioned if the responses across genotypes are the outcome of averaging across subtype responses.

      These two plots are not the same; a compass plot is a sub-category of polar plots. Polar plots, as in Figure 3, show the response amplitude of the neurons to the different directions of motion. Instead, compass plots, as in Figure 6, show vectors that depict the tuning direction and the strength of tuning of individual neurons.

      We added the following sentence to clarify the calculation in Figure 6c: ‘To average responses of all neurons, the PD of each neuron was determined by its maximal response to one of 8 directions shown.'

      (32) In line 344, the title could be adjusted to "C2 is controlling the temporal dynamics of ON behavior", under the same reasoning of 'requirements' explained before.

      We think that “is controlling” is a stronger claim than “being required”. For a geneticist, the word “required” simply means that there is a(ny) loss of function phenotype, i.e., a reduction in DS when C2 and C3 are silenced/blocked. Many neurons are sufficient but not required to induce a certain behavior (i.e., they can induce a behavior when ectopically activated, but show no significant loss of function phenotype). We therefore consider it remarkable that C2 and C3 silencing indeed shows a significant reduction in DS.

      However, we do not want to overclaim anything, and the title now reads: “T4 tunes the temporal dynamics of ON behavior”

      (33) In Figure 7c, the plot legend should be "deceleration".

      Corrected

      (34) In line 424, the Braun et al. (2023) experiments were performed in T5 cells as previously mentioned.

      Corrected

      (35) In line 435, the authors mention that both ON-selective C2 and C3 neurons act partially in parallel pathways. In Figure 2b, the upstream circuitry between C2 and C3 is identical. How would they explain the functional-connectivity contradiction?

      In terms of acting in parallel pathways, downstream, not upstream, connectivity of C2 and C3 will matter, which is not identical. C2 for example connects to Mi1, L1, and L4, whereas C3 does not. On the other hand, C3 connects to Mi9 and Tm4, which C2 does not.

      (36) In lines 445-447, the authors address C2 and C3 neurons as columnar, whereas they previously showed in Figure 3 that they are multicolumnar.

      Here, we refer to the nomenclature of Nern et al, that use the term “columnar” whenever something is present in each column. We specifically define this by saying “only 15 cells are truly columnar in the sense that they are present once per column and present in each column”. In the results section, we instead talk about “functionally multicolumnar” and changed a sentence in the discussion to say “The spatial receptive fields of C2 and C3 are consistent with the multicolumnar branching of their projections in the medulla” to avoid any such confusion.

      (37) In line 448, "thus" is repetitive, and the extracted view in line 449 does not contribute to the essence of the study.

      Fixed.

      (38) In line 459, the authors refer to inhibition inheritance; this term should be used frequently in the text in case the neural correlates between C2 & C3 and T4 & T5 are not deciphered.

      We think this point is very clear throughout the manuscript now. As one prominent example, we added a sentence to the first paragraph of the discussion saying “Given the widespread connectivity of C2 and C3 to neurons upstream of T4/T5, this effect [on DS tuning] is likely inherited from upstream neurons of T4/T5.”

      (39) In line 521, the transition between sentences is problematic.

      Corrected

      (40) For Supplementary Figure 1, why were the ON-motion deficits not addressed with the antibody approach used for Supplementary Figure 1a?

      The approach using anti-GABA stainings turned out to be largely redundant with the intersectional strategy. Furthermore, the intersectional strategy provided the full morphology of the cell and, hence, led to easier identification of the cell types involved.

      (41) In line 1169, C2 is mentioned, whereas C3 is annotated in the figure.

      Corrected

      (42) A general comment is that Tm1 inputs could be a good candidate for assessing T5 inputs, as performed for Mi1-T4 in Fig.4. Such experiments would enhance the understanding of inhibitory inheritance to T5 responses.

      We fully agree.

      (42) Do the authors have any indication or experiments done regarding the C2&C3 role in T4&T5 velocity tuning? This would be complementary to the direction of this study.

      This is a good idea, that we had tried. However, we did not see a difference between control and C2 silencing for the temporal frequency tuning of T4/T5. As velocity is closely related to temporal frequency tuning, we would not expect to see a difference there either.

      While it would have been nice to be able to draw such a link, we would also state that our behavioral data are a bit different: We did not look at temporal frequency tuning per se, and overall, it is not well understood how responses in T4/T5 relate to behavior, as they for example have different frequency tunings (T4/T5 physiology: Maisak et al., 2013, Arenz et al., 2017; optomotor behaviour: Strother et al.,2017, Clark et al., 2013). 

      (43) As a suggestion, Figure 7 would be better positioned as Figure 4, right after the ON-selectivity finding of C2 neurons.

      We preferred to keep the current order.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Main recommendation:

      It would be useful to propose a neural circuit model that connects the various observations. One can draw here on the many circuit models for motion vision in the prior literature.

      (1) How might the extended response in upstream neurons Mi1 lead to the inappropriate nulldirection responses in T4/T5?

      This is a good question and we can only speculate. Mi1 responses are enhanced upon C2 silencing and T4 responses to full field flash responses are also enhanced. Likely, these motionindependent responses are also seen when the edge travels into the non-preferred direction, whereas this non-motion response would likely be masked by the motion response to the preferred direction. The phenotype seen in T5 is likely inherited from medulla neurons, e.g. Tm1, to which C2 connects. How the delay of the Mi1 response upon C2 silencing may specifically affect ND responses, we don’t know. 

      (2) How is the loss of DS in T4/T5 compatible with the continued sensitivity to motion in the turning response? Perhaps the signal from 180-degree oppositely tuned T-cells gets subtracted, so as to remove the baseline activity?

      This is a great question that we cannot answer. Overall, perturbations that affect T4/T5 physiology do not necessarily manifest in equivalent phenotypes when looking at behavioral turning responses. Prominent examples come from silencing core neurons of motion-detection circuits, such as Mi1 and Tm3 (see Figure 4, Strother et al. 2017).

      (3) How do the altered dynamics in upstream neurons relate to the loss of high-frequency discrimination in the behavior? One would want to explain why the normal fly has a pronounced decay in the response even though the motion is still ongoing (Figure 7b left, starting at 0.4 s). That decay is missing in the mutant response.

      That is an excellent question that we unfortunately do not have an answer for. Please note that our visual stimuli is a single edge which is sweeping across the eye, and which might not elicit equally strong responses at each position of the eye, or each time during the stimulus presentation.

      In terms of linking the dynamics of upstream neurons to behavior, we already pointed out above that it is not well understood how responses in T4/T5 relate to behavior, as they for example have different frequency tuning, with T4/T5 neurons being tuned to lower temporal frequencies than the turning behavior of a fly walking on a ball (T4/T5 physiology: Maisak et al., 2013, Arenz et al., 2017; optomotor behaviour: Strother et al.,2017, Clark et al., 2013).

      Other recommendations:

      (1) Abstract line 37 "At the behavioral level, feedback inhibition temporally sharpens responses to ON stimuli, enhancing the fly's ability to discriminate visual stimuli that occur in quick succession." It may be worth specifying *moving* stimuli.

      Done as suggested

      (2) Line 52: "The functional significance of feedback neurons, particularly inhibitory feedback mechanisms, in early visual processing is not understood." This seems overly negative. Subsequent text mentions a number of such instances that are understood, and one could add more from the retina.

      We agree. We rephrased to say ‘motion vision’ and added more examples of known roles of feedback inhibition

      (3) Line 69: "inhibitory feedback signals from horizontal cells and amacrine cells to photoreceptors and bipolar cells, respectively, are involved in multiple mechanisms of retinal processing, including global light adaptation, spatial frequency tuning, or the center-surround organization (Diamond 2017)." Maybe add the proven role in temporal sharpening of responses, which is of relevance to the present report.

      We added temporal sharpening to that introduction point.

      (4) Figure 1: The text for this figure talks about behavioral motion detection deficits in various lines. Maybe add an example of the behavioral effects to this figure.

      We added a summary plot of the behavioral screen data to Supplementary figure 1.

      (5) Line 325: "the timing of the ON peak tended to be slower for C3 compared to C2 for both the vertical and the horizontal STRF": It's hard to see evidence for that in the data.

      Based on your next comment we reanalysed the kernels of C2 and C3. This resulted in a significant difference in peak timing between C2 and C3. 

      (6) When presenting kernels as in Figure 3d and Figure 4b, extend the time axis to positive times until the kernel goes to zero. This "prediction of future stimuli" allows the reader to see the degree of correlation within the stimulus, which affects how one interprets the shape of the kernel. Also, plotting the entire peak gives a better assessment of whether there are any shape differences between conditions. An alternative is to compute the kernel via deconvolution, which gets closer to the actual causal kernel, but that procedure tends to highlight high-frequency noise in the measurement.

      We replotted the kernels in Figure 3d and 4b to show positive times. The kernels of C2 and C3 stayed at a positive level. Going back through the data we found a severe decrease in GCaMP signal in the first 2 seconds of the recording. We reanalyzed the kernels by ignoring the first seconds. All kernels now go back to zero. The shape of the kernels did not change but we now find a significant difference in peak timing between C2 and C3. Thank you for pointing this out.

      (7) Line 280 "simultaneously blocked C2 and C3 using Kir2.1": First use of that acronym. Please explain what the method is.

      We now explain “we simultaneously blocked C2 and C3 by overexpression of the inwardrectifying potassium channel Kir2.1”

      (8) Line 350 "temporal dynamics for C2 silencing": suggests "dynamics of silencing"; maybe better "response dynamics during C2 silencing".

      Edited as suggested

      (9) Figure 7: Explain the details of the stimulus containing two subsequent on edges. What happens between one edge and the next? Does the screen switch back to black? Or does the second edge ride on top of the final level of the first edge? This matters for interpreting the response.

      Yes, the screen turns dark between subsequent edge presentations. We added a sentence to the methods to clarify that. 

      (10) Line 402 "novel, critical components of motion computation.": This seems exaggerated. At the behavioral level, motion computation is mostly unaffected, except for some details of time resolution. Whether those matter for the fly's life is unclear.

      We deleted the word ‘critical.’

      (11) Line 413 "GABAergic inhibition required for motion detection is mediated by C2 and C3": Again, this seems exaggerated. Motion *detection* appears to work fine, but the *discrimination* of two closely successive motion stimuli is affected. The rest of the text does properly distinguish "discrimination" from "detection".

      We changed the title to say: ‘GABAergic inhibition in motion detection is mediated by C2 and C3.’

      (12) Line 489 "Whereas the role of C2 and C3 for the OFF pathway may be more generally to suppress neuronal activity,": Unclear to what this refers. The present report emphasizes that there is no effect on OFF activity (Figure 5).

      We did not see an effect of T5 responses to OFF flashes as shown in Figure 5 but we found a significant reduction of DS when silencing C2, as well as slightly overall increased responses to all directions for C2 and C3 silencing, which was significant for null directions when silencing C2. This is shown in Figure 6.

      Typos:

      (1) Line 521.

      Fixed

      (2) Line 1170: context of the citation unclear.

      Fixed

    1. eLife Assessment

      This is a solid paper on intermittent fasting that will be of interest to readers. The data presented are certainly valuable as a resource. The findings of both shared and tissue-specific signatures, both at the proteomic and transcriptomic levels, align well with what has been established and bring new insight into metabolic adaptation and its consequences in muscle, cortex, and liver. The organ specific changes unveiled by proteomics in response to IF reveal unique rewiring of metabolic, signaling and physiological function.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, authors employed comprehensive proteomics and transcriptomics analysis to investigate the systemic and organ-specific adaptations to IF in male and they found that shared biological signaling processes were identified across tissues, suggesting unifying mechanisms linking metabolic changes to cellular communication, which reveal both conserved and tissue-specific responses by which IF may optimize energy utilization, enhance metabolic flexibility, and promote cellular.

      Strengths:

      This study detected multiple organs including liver, brain and muscle and revealed both conserved and tissue-specific responses to IF.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Why did the authors choose liver, brain and muscle but not other organs such as heart and kidney? The latter are proven to be the large consumer of ketones, which is also changed in the IF treatment of this study.

      (2) The proteomics and transcriptomics analysis were only performed at 4 months. However, a strong correlation between IF and the molecular adaptions should be time points-dependent.

      (3) The context lack section of "discussion", which shows the significance and weakness of the study.

      (4) There is no confirmation for the proteomic and transcriptomic profiling. For example, the important changes in proteomics could be further identified by a Western blot.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Fan and colleagues measure proteomics and transcriptomics in 3 organs (liver, skeletal muscle, cerebral cortex) from male C57BL/6 mice to investigate whether intermittent fasting (IF; 16h daily fasting over 4 months) produces systemic and organ-specific adaptations.

      They find shared signaling pathways, certain metabolic changes and organ-specific responses that suggest IF might affect energy utilization, metabolic flexibility while promoting resilience at the cellular level.

      Strengths:

      The fact that there are 3 organs and 2 -omics approaches is a strength of this study.

      Weaknesses:

      Poor figures presentation and knowledge of the literature. One sex (male).

      On resubmission the Authors' decision to discriminate the organ-specific from the organ-shared effects of intermittent fasting (IF) also enabled them to more precisely determine the lack of correspondence between transcriptomics and proteomics, i.e., not all transcripts lead to protein translation.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Fan et al utilize large omics data sets to give an overview of proteomic and gene expression changes after 4 moths of intermittent fasting (IF) in liver, muscle and brain tissue. They describe common and district pathways altered under IF across tissues using different analysis approaches. Main conclusions presented are the variability in responses across tissues with IF. Some common pathways were observed, but there were notable distinctions between tissues.

      Strengths:

      (1) The IF study was well conducted and ran out to 4 months which was a nice long-term design.

      (2) The multi omics approach was solid and additional integrative analysis was complementary to the illustrate the differential pathways and interactions across tissues.

      (3) The authors did not over-step their conclusions and imply an overreached mechanism.

      Weaknesses:

      The weaknesses, which are minor, include use of only male mice and the early start (6 weeks) of the IF treatment. However, the authors have provided justification on why they chose male mice and the time points used in the study.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors employed comprehensive proteomics and transcriptomics analysis to investigate the systemic and organ-specific adaptations to IF in males. They found that shared biological signaling processes were identified across tissues, suggesting unifying mechanisms linking metabolic changes to cellular communication, which revealed both conserved and tissue-specific responses by which IF may optimize energy utilization, enhance metabolic flexibility, and promote cellular resilience.

      Strengths:

      This study detected multiple organs, including the liver, brain, and muscle, and revealed both conserved and tissue-specific responses to IF.

      We appreciate the recognition of the study’s strengths and the opportunity to clarify the points raised.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Why did the authors choose the liver, brain, and muscle, but not other organs such as the heart and kidney? The latter are proven to be the largest consumers of ketones, which is also changed in the IF treatment of this study.

      We agree that the heart and kidney are critical organs in ketone metabolism. Our selection of the liver, brain, and muscle was guided by their distinct metabolic functions and relevance to systemic energy balance, neuroplasticity, and locomotor activity, key domains influenced by intermittent fasting (IF). These tissues also offer complementary perspectives on central and peripheral adaptations to IF. Notably, we have previously examined the effects of IF on the heart (eLife 12:RP89214), and we fully acknowledge the importance of the kidney. We intend to include it in future studies to broaden the scope and deepen our understanding of IF-induced systemic responses.

      (2) The proteomics and transcriptomics analyses were only performed at 4 months. However, a strong correlation between IF and the molecular adaptations should be time point-dependent.

      We appreciate this insightful comment. The 4-month time point was selected to capture long-term adaptations to IF, beyond acute or transitional effects. While we acknowledge that molecular responses to IF are time-dependent, our goal in this study was to establish a foundational understanding of sustained systemic and tissue-specific changes. We fully agree that a longitudinal approach would provide deeper insights into the temporal dynamics of IF-induced adaptations. To address this, we are currently undertaking a comprehensive 2-year study that is specifically designed to explore these time-dependent effects in greater detail.

      (3) The context lacks a "discussion" section, which would detail the significance and weaknesses of the study.

      We appreciate this observation. The manuscript was originally structured to emphasize results and interpretation within each section, but we recognize that a dedicated discussion section would enhance clarity and contextual depth. In the revised version, we will add a comprehensive discussion section addressing broader implications, limitations, and future directions of the study.

      (4) There is no confirmation for the proteomic and transcriptomic profiling. For example, the important changes in proteomics could be further identified by a Western blot. 

      We acknowledge the importance of orthogonal validation to support high-throughput findings. While our study primarily focused on uncovering systemic patterns through proteomic and transcriptomic profiling, we agree that targeted confirmation would strengthen the conclusions. To this end, we have included immunohistochemical validation of a key protein common to all three organs— Serpin A1C. Additionally, we are planning a dedicated follow-up study to expand functional validation of several key proteins identified in this manuscript, which will be pursued as a separate project.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Fan and colleagues measure proteomics and transcriptomics in 3 organs (liver, skeletal muscle, cerebral cortex) from male C57BL/6 mice to investigate whether intermittent fasting (IF; 16h daily fasting over 4 months) produces systemic and organ-specific adaptations. 

      They find shared signaling pathways, certain metabolic changes, and organ-specific responses that suggest IF might affect energy utilization, metabolic flexibility, while promoting resilience at the cellular level.

      Strengths:

      The fact that there are 3 organs and 2 -omics approaches is a strength of this study. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s recognition of the breadth of our study design. By integrating proteomics and transcriptomics across three metabolically distinct organs, we aimed to provide a comprehensive view of systemic and tissue-specific adaptations to IF. This multi-organ, multi-omics approach was central to uncovering both conserved and divergent biological responses.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The analytical approach of the data generated by the present study is not well posed, because it doesn't help to answer key questions implicit in the experimental design. Consequently, the paper, as it is for now, reads as a mere description of results and not a response to specific questions.

      We thank the reviewer for this important observation. Our initial aim was to establish a foundational atlas of molecular changes induced by IF across key organs. However, we recognize that clearer framing of the biological questions would enhance interpretability. In the revised manuscript, we will have restructured the introduction, results, and discussion to align more explicitly with specific hypotheses, particularly those related to energy metabolism, cellular resilience, and inter-organ signaling. We have also added targeted analyses and clarified how each dataset contributes to answering these questions.

      (2) The presentation of the figures, the knowledge of the literature, and the inclusion of only one sex (male) are all weaknesses.

      We appreciate this feedback and agree that these are important considerations. Regarding figure presentation, we will revise several figures for improved clarity, add more descriptive legends, and reorganize supplemental materials to better support the main findings. On the literature front, we will expand the discussion to include recent and relevant studies on IF, metabolic adaptation, and sex-specific responses. As for the use of only male mice, this was a deliberate choice to reduce hormonal variability and focus on establishing baseline molecular responses. We fully acknowledge the importance of sex as a biological variable and will soon be conducting studies in female mice to address this gap.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Fan et al utilize large omics data sets to give an overview of proteomic and gene expression changes after 4 months of intermittent fasting (IF) in liver, muscle, and brain tissue. They describe common and distinct pathways altered under IF across tissues using different analysis approaches. The main conclusions presented are the variability in responses across tissues with IF. Some common pathways were observed, but there were notable distinctions between tissues.

      Strengths:

      (1) The IF study was well conducted and ran out to 4 months, which was a nice long-term design.

      (2) The multiomics approach was solid, and additional integrative analysis was complementary to illustrate the differential pathways and interactions across tissues. 

      (3) The authors did not overstep their conclusions and imply an overreached mechanism.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for acknowledging the strengths of our study design and analytical approach. We aimed to strike a careful balance between comprehensive data generation and cautious interpretation, and we appreciate the recognition that our conclusions were appropriately framed within the scope of the data.

      Weaknesses:

      The weaknesses, which are minor, include the use of only male mice and the early start (6 weeks) of the IF treatment. See specifics in the recommendations section.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comments. The decision to use male mice and initiate IF at 6 weeks was based on minimizing hormonal variability and capturing early adult metabolic programming. We acknowledge that sex and developmental timing are important biological variables. To address this, we are conducting parallel studies in female mice and evaluating IF initiated at later life stages. These follow-up investigations will help determine the extent to which sex and timing influence the molecular and physiological outcomes of IF.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The editor suggested addressing points regarding the young age at diet onset, use of males only, and justification for the choice of tissues analyzed without requiring new data generation.

      We agree that these are important points for context. We have now added a dedicated paragraph to the Discussion section (page 22) to explicitly acknowledge and discuss these as limitations of our study. We justify our initial experimental design choices in the context of the existing literature while acknowledging the valuable insights that studies in females and with different diet onset timings would provide.

      The editor and reviewers recommended a more integrative analysis, suggesting the use of freely available tools, and a deeper discussion to frame the work against the existing literature.

      We thank the editor for this excellent suggestion. In response to this and the detailed points from Reviewer #2, we have performed a new, integrated multi-omics analysis using Latent variable approaches (DIABLO), implemented in the mixOmics R package version 6.28.0 tool, a state-of-the-art, freely available package for integrative multi-omics analysis. This new analysis, presented in a new Figure 4 and described in the Results section (pages 20-23), identifies the key sources of variation across tissues and omics layers, directly addressing the request for a true integrative approach. Furthermore, we have thoroughly revised the Results and Discussion to more sharply frame our findings and highlight the new insights gleaned from our study.

      The editor requested clarification on whether mice were fasted at euthanasia and to rephrase the statement on page 12 regarding mitochondrial pathways.

      - We have clarified in the Methods section (page 4) that mice were euthanized at the end of their fasting period, precisely detailing the stage of the IF cycle.

      - We thank the editor for this critical correction. We have rephrased the statement on page 12 to more accurately reflect that we observed a lower abundance of proteins involved in mitochondrial oxidative pathways, and we now carefully discuss the important distinction between protein abundance and functional activity in this context.

      The editor noted that the introduction is missing key citations and should acknowledge foundational work.

      We apologize for this oversight. We have now revised the Introduction to include several key foundational citations that were previously missing, ensuring proper credit to the important work of our colleagues.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      We thank the reviewer for their exceptionally detailed and helpful technical suggestions, which have greatly improved the analytical rigor of our manuscript.

      (1) & (4) 3D PCA and Integrated Multi-Omics Analysis:

      We agree with the reviewer that a more sophisticated integrative analysis was needed. As detailed in our response to the editor, we have replaced the original side-by-side analysis with a proper integrated multi-omics analysis using Latent variable approaches (DIABLO), implemented in the mixOmics R package version 6.28.0 tool. This new analysis simultaneously models the proteomic and transcriptomic data from all three organs, identifying shared and tissue-specific sources of variation. This directly and more powerfully validates our claim of "conserved and tissue-specific responses." The results of this analysis are now central to our revised Results section and Figure 4 and supplementary figures (PCA analysis). 

      (2) Concordance/Discordance Analysis:

      This is an excellent point. We have now performed a comprehensive analysis of transcript-protein concordance for the differentially expressed molecules in each tissue. A new figure 4 summarizes these findings, and we discuss the biological implications of both concordant and discordant pairs in the Results section.

      (3) Organ-Specific Functional Remodeling:

      We have taken this advice to heart. The new analysis inherently addresses whether the functional remodeling is shared or tissue-specific. 

      (5) Missing Citations:

      We have thoroughly reviewed the literature and added key citations throughout the manuscript, particularly in the Introduction and Discussion, to properly situate our work within the field.

      (6) Starting Results with Supplementary Data:

      As the study design, including the timing of experimental interventions and blood and tissue collections, is summarized in the supplementary figures, the Results and Discussion section begins with those figures. However, we have now renamed the figures according to the eLife style, in which supplementary figures are linked to the main figures. This ensures a more logical and coherent flow.

      (7) Figure Presentation and Explanation:

      We have completely revised all figures to improve their clarity, consistency, and professional appearance. We have also carefully gone through the manuscript to ensure that every panel in every figure is explicitly mentioned and explained in the main text.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      We thank the reviewer for their important comments regarding the model system.

      (1) Sex Differences and Limitations:

      We fully agree that studying sex differences is a critical and profound aspect of dietary interventions. As noted in our response to the editor, we have added a paragraph to the Discussion to explicitly acknowledge this as a key limitation of our current study. We discuss the existing evidence for sex-specific responses to IF and state that this is an essential direction for future research.

      (2) Early Diet Onset and Developmental Programs:

      This is a valuable point. We have added text to the Discussion acknowledging that starting IF at 6 weeks of age could potentially interact with developmental programs. We discuss this as a consideration for interpreting our data and for the design of future studies.

      We believe that our revised manuscript is substantially stronger as a result of addressing these comments. We are grateful for the opportunity to improve our work and hope that you and the reviewers find these responses and revisions satisfactory.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This useful and interesting study provides evidence that EABR mRNA is at least as effective as standard S mRNA vaccines for SARS-CoV-2. The authors provide convincing justification for the conclusion that the inconsistent statistical significance for Omicron is likely due to immune imprinting or original antigenic sin. In this regard, the significance of the findings is stronger as it points to possible challenges for updated vaccine strategies in overcoming immune imprinting.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigated the immunogenicity of a novel bivalent EABR mRNA vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 that expresses enveloped virus-like particles in pre-immune mice as a model for boosting the population that is already pre-immune to SARS-CoV-2. The study builds on promising data showing a monovalent EABR mRNA vaccine induced substantially higher antibody responses than a standard S mRNA vaccine in naïve mice. In pre-immune mice, the EABR booster increased the breadth and magnitude of the antibody response, but for Omicron, the effects were modest and often not statistically significant. The authors provide compelling evidence to support this may be due to immune imprinting.

      This study also builds on prior work with additional experiments to elucidate the mechanisms that contributed to the EABR increased immunogenicity in naive mice including evidence that the vaccine is inducing responses to more RBD epitopes and a potential role for heterodimer formation as a mechanism whereby bivalent vaccines induce cross-reactive B cell responses.

      Strengths:

      Evaluating a novel SARS-CoV-2 vaccine that was substantially superior in naive mice in pre-immune mice as a model for its potential in the pre-immune population.

      Providing insight into a possible role of immune imprinting in shaping immune responses to updated booster immunizations.

      Minor weaknesses:

      (1) Overall, immune responses against Omicron variants were substantially lower than against the ancestral Wu-1 strain that the mice were primed with. The authors speculate this is evidence of immune imprinting. While parallel controls (mice immunized 3 times with just the bivalent EABR vaccine) were not tested, the authors point to prior published work showing Omicron S antigen is a strong immunogen. This indicates the lower immune responses to Omicron are likely due to immune imprinting (or original antigenic sin) and not due to S immunogen being inherently less immunogenic than the S protein from the ancestral Wu-1 strain.

      (2) The authors reported statistically significant increase in antibody responses with the bivalent EABR vaccine booster when compared to the monovalent S mRNA vaccine but consistently failed to show significantly higher responses when compared to the bi-valent S mRNA vaccine suggesting that in pre-immune mice, the EABR vaccine has no apparent advantage over the bivalent S mRNA vaccine which is the current standard. There were, however, some trends indicating the group sizes were insufficiently powered to see a difference. The discussion acknowledges these limitations of their studies and potential limited benefits of the EABR strategy in pre-immune mice vs standard bivalent mRNA vaccine.

      (3) The EABR S mRNA vaccine was superior to the conventional mRNA S vaccine in naïve mice but not in pre-immune mice. The authors expanded the discussion to propose a possible role for immune imprinting in this result which is supported by the data.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors evaluated a novel bivalent (Wu1/BA.5 based) mRNA platform that uses the EABR strategy to produce enveloped virus-like particles for vaccination. These were tested as boosters in the context of pre-existing immunity in mice that received two prior immunizations with conventional Wu1 mRNA vaccines. The animal experimental timeline aimed at mimicking the vaccinations/booster schedule implemented during the COVID-19 pandemia. The authors tested and compared different booster strategies: (1) conventional Wu1 S protein encoding mRNA vaccine, (2) EABR Wu1 S protein encoding mRNA vaccine that produces enveloped virus-like particles, (3) conventional Wu1/BA.5 S protein encoding mRNA vaccine, and (4) EABR Wu1/BA.5 S protein encoding mRNA vaccine that produces enveloped virus-like particles. The EABR approach (monovalent or bivalent) enhanced the antibody response against Wu1 and Omicron subvariants. Interestingly, the bivalent EABR Wu1/BA.5 mRNA (strategy 4) generated polyclonal sera targeting multiple receptor-binding domain epitopes: these sera were more diverse than those generated with the other tested booster strategies (1 to 3).

      Strengths:

      The monovalent Wu1 S-EABR mRNA booster led to increase in antibody binding to tested Omicron variants (BA.5, BQ.1.1, XBB.1), while the bivalent Wu1/BA.5 S-EABR mRNA booster led to the highest Ab response against Omicron variants (BA.5, BQ.1.1, XBB.1) in pre-vaccinated mice.

      Neutralization assays showed that the monovalent Wu1 S-EABR mRNA booster had the highest Wu1 neutralization activity and to a lesser extent the early BA.1 early Omicron variant. The monovalent Wu1 S-EABR mRNA booster and bivalent Wu1/BA.5 S-EABR mRNA booster had similar BA.5 neutralizing activity. Neutralizing activity of the different boosters was less pronounced with later Omicron variants BQ.1.1 and XBB.1. However, of the different boosters tested, the bivalent Wu1/BA.5 S-EABR mRNA booster induced the highest neutralizing titers. These results support that the EABR mRNA vaccine strategy helps improve neutralizing activity against different tested Omicron subvariants: a few (1 or 2) mRNA constructs expressing major antigens in enveloped virus-like particles likely provide a novel strategy to elicit an immune response that has the potential to neutralize subsequent variants.

      The EABR enveloped virus-like particle strategy induces a more diverse antibody response, including epitopes not recognized by the other booster strategies: these new epitopes could play a role in neutralizing activity against new future variants.

      Moreover, the bivalent Wu1/BA.5 S-EABR mRNA booster could potentially produce heterotrimeric S proteins to help activation of cross-reactive B cells and increase polyclass antibody responses.

      Weaknesses:

      When it comes to later Omicron variants (BQ.1.1 and XBB.1), there is a discrepancy between epitope binding response and neutralization titers: only a few binding antibodies have neutralizing activity with these later variants, showing a limitation of the EABR strategy.

      The authors showed that the EABR mRNA strategy represents a novel antigen exposing strategy where antigens are produced at the cell surface and also at the surface of enveloped virus-like particles. This allows the production of novel antigens in addition to those that would be typically generated against cell surface exposed antigens. These novel antigens targeting new epitopes could potentially have neutralizing activity.

      Using a bivalent EABR mRNA booster led to higher antibody titers and higher neutralizing activity. The challenge is to select the best antigen target/variant to support neutralizing activity against later virus variants.

    4. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This report provides useful evidence that EABR mRNA is at least as effective as standard S mRNA vaccines for the SARS-CoV-2 booster vaccine. Although the methodology and the experimental approaches are solid, the inconsistent statistical significance throughout the study presents limitations in interpreting the results. Also, the absence of results showing possible mechanisms underlying the lack of benefit with EABR in the pre-immune makes the findings mostly observational.

      Thank you for your assessment of our study. Respectfully, we do not agree that our study shows a lack of benefit of using the EABR approach. For the monovalent boosters, the S-EABR mRNA booster improved neutralizing antibody titers by 3.4-fold against BA.1 (p = 0.03; Fig. S5) and 4.8-fold against BA.5 (failed to reach statistical significance; Fig. 3B) compared to the regular S mRNA booster, which is consistent with the findings from our prior study in naïve mice. In addition, the bivalent S-EABR booster consistently elicited the highest neutralizing titers against all tested variants, including significantly higher titers against BA.5 and BQ.1.1 than the monovalent S booster. The bivalent S-EABR booster also induced detectable neutralization activity in a larger number of mice than all other boosters.

      Consistent with this analysis, please note that reviewers 1 and 2 commented that “the EABR booster increased the breadth and magnitude of the antibody response, but the effects were modest and often not statistically significant” (reviewer 1) and “the authors found that across both monovalent and bivalent designs, the EABR antigens had improved antibody titers than conventional antigens, although they observed dampened titers against Omicron variants, likely due to immune imprinting” (reviewer 2).

      We agree with the reviewers’ assessment that the EABR booster-mediated improvements were mostly modest, in particular against the BQ.1.1 and XBB.1 strains. We also acknowledge that the improvements in titers did not reach statistical significance in many cases, which we believe could have been addressed by adding more animals to our cohorts. Unfortunately, that would have been prohibitively expensive and time-consuming given that we already included 10 mice per group, which is standard practice in the vaccine field.

      Finally, we also wish to point out that we did include experiments that addressed potential mechanistic differences between booster groups. For example, we conducted deep mutational scanning studies to determine polyclonal antibody epitope mapping profiles, showing that bivalent S-EABR boosters induced more balanced targeting of multiple RBD epitopes, which likely contributed to the observed improvements in neutralization. Our work also included cryo-EM studies demonstrating that bivalent S mRNA boosters promote heterotrimer formation, which could potentially drive preferential stimulation of cross-reactive B cells via intra-spike crosslinking. This represents a potential mechanism explaining how bivalent boosters outperformed monovalent boosters in our and many prior studies, which warrants further investigation. Finally, we also performed serum depletion assays, showing that the BA.5 neutralizing activity elicited by the bivalent Wu1/BA.5 S and S-EABR mRNA boosters was primarily driven by cross-neutralizing Abs induced by the primary vaccination series.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigated the immunogenicity of a novel bivalent EABR mRNA vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 that expresses enveloped virus-like particles in pre-immune mice as a model for boosting the population that is already pre-immune to SARS-CoV-2. The study builds on promising data showing a monovalent EABR mRNA vaccine induced substantially higher antibody responses than a standard S mRNA vaccine in naïve mice. In pre-immune mice, the EABR booster increased the breadth and magnitude of the antibody response, but the effects were modest and often not statistically significant.

      We thank the reviewer for their accurate summary of our study. Please see our comments to the reviewer’s individual points below, as well as our responses to the editor’s assessment above.

      Strengths:

      Evaluating a novel SARS-CoV-2 vaccine that was substantially superior in naive mice in pre-immune mice as a model for its potential in the pre-immune population.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Overall, immune responses against Omicron variants were substantially lower than against the ancestral Wu-1 strain that the mice were primed with. The authors speculate this is evidence of immune imprinting, but don't have the appropriate controls (mice immunized 3 times with just the bivalent EABR vaccine) to discern this. Without this control, it's not clear if the lower immune responses to Omicron are due to immune imprinting (or original antigenic sin) or because the Omicron S immunogen is just inherently more poorly immunogenic than the S protein from the ancestral Wu-1 strain.

      The reviewer raises an important point, and we agree that including additional groups receiving three immunizations with the bivalent spike and/or spike-EABR mRNA vaccines would have improved the experimental design. However, we believe that several prior studies have already demonstrated that Omicron S immunogens are not inherently poorly immunogenic compared to the ancestral S; e.g., Scheaffer et al., Nat Med (2022); Ying et al., Cell (2022); Muik et al., Sci Immunol (2022). Based on these prior reports, we conclude that the lower neutralizing titers against Omicron variants in our study are most likely driven by immune imprinting as a result of the initial vaccination series with the ancestral S immunogen.

      (2) The authors reported a statistically significant increase in antibody responses with the bivalent EABR vaccine booster when compared to the monovalent S mRNA vaccine, but consistently failed to show significantly higher responses when compared to the bivalent S mRNA vaccine, suggesting that in pre-immune mice, the EABR vaccine has no apparent advantage over the bivalent S mRNA vaccine which is the current standard. There were, however, some trends indicating the group sizes were insufficiently powered to see a difference. This is mostly glossed over throughout the manuscript. The discussion section needs to better acknowledge these limitations of their studies and the limited benefits of the EABR strategy in pre-immune mice vs the standard bivalent mRNA vaccine.

      We acknowledge that the improvements in titers did not reach statistical significance in many cases, which we believe could have been addressed by adding more animals to our cohorts. Unfortunately, that would have been prohibitively expensive and timeconsuming given that we already included 10 mice per group, which is standard practice in the vaccine field. We added a “Limitations of the study” section at the end of the discussion to address all of these points in detail (lines 570-598 in the revised version).

      (3) The discussion would benefit from additional explanation about why they think the EABR S mRNA vaccine was substantially superior in naïve mice vs the standard S mRNA vaccine in their previously published work, but here, there is not much difference in pre-immune mice.

      As we pointed out in our response to the editor’s assessment above, the monovalent SEABR mRNA booster improved neutralizing antibody titers by 3.4-fold against BA.1 (p = 0.03; Fig. S5) and 4.8-fold against BA.5 (failed to reach statistical significance; Fig. 3B) compared to the conventional monovalent S mRNA booster, which is largely consistent with the findings from our prior study in naïve mice. Although the bivalent S-EABR mRNA booster consistently elicited higher neutralizing titers than the conventional bivalent S mRNA booster, we agree with the reviewer that these improvements were modest and not statistically significant. Overall, neutralizing activity against later Omicron variants, such as BQ.1.1 and XBB.1 was low. We attributed this finding to immune imprinting (see response to point (1) above) and acknowledged that the EABR approach was not able to effectively overcome this effect (see discussion section of the paper, lines 537-558; and “Limitations of the study” section, lines 570-598 in the revised version).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Fan, Cohen, and Dam et al. conducted a follow-up study to their prior work on the ESCRT- and ALIX-binding region (EABR) mRNA vaccine platform that they developed. They tested in mice whether vaccines made in this format will have improved binding/neutralization antibody capacity over conventional antigens when used as a booster. The authors tested this in both monovalent (Wu1 only) or bivalent (Wu1 + BA.5) designs. The authors found that across both monovalent and bivalent designs, the EABR antigens had improved antibody titers than conventional antigens, although they observed dampened titers against Omicron variants, likely due to immune imprinting. Deep mutational scanning experiments suggested that the improvement of the EABR format may be due to a more diversified antibody response. Finally, the authors demonstrate that co-expression of multiple spike proteins within a single cell can result in the formation of heterotrimers, which may have potential further usage as an antigen.

      We thank the reviewer for their support and for the accurate summary and evaluation of our study.

      Strengths:

      (1) The experiments are conducted well and are appropriate to address the questions at hand. Given the significant time that is needed for testing of pre-existing immunity, due to the requirement of pre-vaccinated animals, it is a strength that the authors have conducted a thorough experiment with appropriate groups.

      (2) The improvement in titers associated with EABR antigens bodes well for its potential use as a vaccine platform.

      Weaknesses:

      As noted above, this type of study requires quite a bit of initial time, so the authors cannot be blamed for this, but unfortunately, the vaccine designs that were tested are quite outdated. BA.5 has long been replaced by other variants, and importantly, bivalent vaccines are no longer used. Testing of contemporaneous strains as well as monovalent variant vaccines would be desirable to support the study.

      We thank the reviewer for bringing up this important point. We agree that the variants used for this study are now outdated, and it would have been informative to evaluate conventional and EABR boosters against contemporaneous strains. However, as the reviewer correctly pointed out, this type of study requires a substantial amount of time to conduct and will therefore will likely always be outdated by the time the data are analyzed and prepared for publication. To accurately assess immune responses against recent or current strains in mice, multiple boosters would have been needed to mimic the pre-existing immune context in the human population in 2025. Assuming intervals of 6-7 months between boosters (as used in this study to mimic booster intervals in the human population as closely as possible), this type of study would have been challenging to conduct, especially given the limited lifespan of mice. Thus, we performed this proof-of-concept study using outdated variants to assess the potential of EABR-modified boosters. We greatly appreciate the reviewer’s understanding and acknowledge this limitation of our study, which is highlighted in the added “Limitations of the study” section in the revised version of the manuscript (lines 570-598).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The acronym RBD in the title should be spelled out.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We made this change in the revised version of the paper.

      (2) Lines 167-168 describe no differences between the cohorts at day 244. It should also be stated that for all timepoints, there are no significant differences.

      We modified the revised manuscript according to the reviewer’s suggestion (line 170).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Given the focus on developing broad vaccines for future coronavirus outbreaks, it would be particularly informative to test whether the EABR antigens elicit broadened/heightened responses against other (beta)coronaviruses. If enough serum is left, it would seem straightforward to conduct neutralization assays against non-SARSCoV-2 coronaviruses.

      We thank the reviewer for this valid suggestion. Unfortunately, the extensive analysis of the serum samples, including spike and RBD ELISAs and neutralization assays against multiple variants, deep mutational scanning, and depletion assays, used up the serum samples for most mice. We agree that it would be interesting to investigate whether bivalent EABR boosters elicit pan-sarbecovirus responses in future studies.

      (2) In the bar plots for antibody titer changes, shown as log10 fold change, it is quite hard to interpret the difference between bars (e.g., what is the fold change difference between each bar in the same time point?). A table of mean {plus minus} SD values would be helpful.

      That’s a great suggestion. We added a table (Table S1) presenting all the geometric mean neutralization titers for all timepoints and variants in the revised version of the manuscript.

      (3) The development of heterotrimers as potential antigens is very interesting, but it seems out of place in the current manuscript. This should likely be in a separate, standalone manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for commenting on the heterotrimer part of our manuscript. The presented work was not intended to advance the development of heterotrimers as potential antigens. Instead, our findings demonstrate that bivalent spike mRNA vaccines readily generate heterotrimers, which could promote intra-spike crosslinking and potentially impact antibody epitope targeting profiles as suggested by the deep mutational scanning data for the bivalent S-EABR mRNA booster (Fig. 4; Fig. S7-8). We think this is an important consideration that warrants further investigation with regards to the development of future bivalent or multivalent vaccines.

      (4) As a minor note, the sequences of the variants used or accession numbers should be provided in the Methods, since different groups have used different mutations for variants.

      We added the accession numbers for the vaccine strains used in this study (lines 604605).

    1. eLife Assessment

      These findings are among some of the first to identify a behavioral and neurobiological substrate that disentangles nonassociative from associative fear responses following stress, providing a fundamental push forward in the field. The evidence supporting this is compelling and uses a variety of conceptual and technological approaches. This investigation will be of interest to neuroscientists and behaviourists broadly, as well as clinicians for its relevance to post-traumatic stress disorder.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study delineates a highly specific role for the pPVT in unconditioned defensive responses. The authors use a novel, combined SEFL and SEFR paradigm to test both conditioned and unconditioned responses in the same animal. Next, a c-fos mapping experiment showed enhanced PVT activity in the stress group when exposed to the novel tone. No other regions showed differences. Fiber photometry measurements in pPVT showed enhancement in response to the novel tone in the stressed but not non-stressed groups. Importantly, there were also no effects when calcium measurements were taken during conditioning. Using DREADDS to bidirectionally manipulate global pPVT activity, inhibition of the PVT reduced tone freezing in stressed mice while stimulation increased tone freezing in non-stressed mice.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of this research is the use of a multi-dimensional behavioral assay that delineates behavior related to both learned and non-learned defensive responses. The research also incorporates high-resolution approaches to measure neuronal activity and provide causal evidence for a role for PVT in a very narrow band of defensive behavior. The data are compelling, and the manuscript is well-written overall.

      Weaknesses:

      Figure 1 shows a small, but looks to be, statistically significant, increase in freezing in response to the novel tone in the no-stress group relative to baseline freezing. This observation was also noticed in Figures 2 and 7. The tone presented is relatively high frequency (9 kHz) and high dB (90), making it a high-intensity stimulus. Is it possible that this stimulus is acting as an unconditioned stimulus? In addition, in the final experiment, the tone intensity was increased to 115 dB, and the freezing % in the non-stressed group was nearly identical (~20%) to the non-stressed groups in Figures 1-2 and Figure 7. It seems this manipulation was meant as a startle assay (Pantoni et al., 2020). Because the auditory perception of mice is better at high frequencies (best at ~16 kHz), would the effect seen be evident at a lower dB (50-55) at 9 kHz? If the tone was indeed perceived as "neutral," there should be no freezing in response to the tone. This complicates the interpretation of the results somewhat because while the authors do admit the stimulus is loud, would a less loud stimulus result in the same effect? Could the interaction observed in this set of studies require not a novel tone, but rather a high-intensity tone that elicits an unconditioned response? Along these same lines, it appears there may be an elevation in c-fos in the PVT in the non-stress tone test group versus the no-stress home cage control, and overall it appears that tone increases c-fos relative to homecage. Could PVT be sensitive to the tone outside of stress? Would there be the same results with a less intense stimulus? I would also be curious to know what mice in the non-stressed group were doing upon presentation of the tone besides freezing. Were any startle or orienting responses noticed?

      Comments on revisions:

      Following revision, this reviewer felt all of the above concerns were addressed.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Nishimura and colleagues present findings of a behavioral and neurobiological dissociation of associative and nonassociative components of Stress Enhanced Fear Responding (SEFR).

      Strengths:

      This is a strong paper that identifies the PVT as a critical brain region for SEFR responses using a variety of approaches, including immunohistochemistry, fiber photometry, and bidirectional chemogenetics. In addition, there is a great deal of conceptual innovation. The authors identify a dissociable behavior to distinguish the effects of PVT function (among other brain regions).

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors find a lack of difference between the Stress and No Stress groups in pPVT activity during SEFL conditioning with fiber photometry but an increase in freezing with Gq DREADD stimulation. How do authors reconcile this difference in activity vs function?

      (2) Because the PVT plays a role in defensive behaviors, it would be beneficial to show fiber photometry data during freezing bouts vs exclusively presented during tone a shock cue presentations.

      (3) Similar to the above point, were other defensive behaviors expressed as a result of footshock stress or PVT manipulations?

      (4) Tone attenuation in Figure 8 seems to be largely a result of minimal freezing to a 115-dB tone. While not a major point of the paper, a more robust fear response would be convincing.

      (5) In the open field test, the authors measure total distance. It would be beneficial to also show defensive behavioral (escape, freezing, etc) bouts expressed.

      (6) The authors, along with others, show a behavioral and neural dissociation of footshock stress on nonassociative vs associative components of stress; however, the nonassociative components as a direct consequence of the stress seem to be necessary for enhancement of associative aspects of fear. Can authors elaborate on how these systems converge to enhance or potentiate fear?

      (7) In the discussion, authors should elaborate on/clarify the cell population heterogeneity of the PVT since authors later describe PVT neurons as exclusively glutamatergic.

      Comments on revisions:

      Following revision, this reviewer felt all of the above concerns were addressed.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Nishimura et al. examines the behavioural and neural mechanisms of stress-enhanced fear responding (SEFR) and stress-enhanced fear learning (SEFL). Groups of stressed (4 x shock exposure in a context) vs non-stressed (context exposure only) animals are compared for their fear of an unconditioned tone, and context, as well as their learning of new context fear associations. Shock of higher intensity led to higher levels of unlearned stress-enhanced fear expression. Immediate early gene analysis uncovered the PVT as a critical neural locus, and this was confirmed using fiber photometry, with stressed animals showing an elevated neural signal to an unconditioned tone. Using a gain and loss of function DREADDs methodology, the authors provide convincing evidence for a causal role of the PVT in SEFR.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript uses critical behavioural controls (no stress vs stress) and behavioural parameters (0.25mA, 0.5mA, 1mA shock). Findings are replicated across experiments.

      (2) Dissociating the SEFR and SEFL is a critical distinction that has not been made previously. Moreover, this dissociation is essential in understanding the behavioural (and neural) processes that can go awry in fear.

      (3) Neural methods use a multifaceted approach to convincingly link the PVT to SEFR: from Fos, fiber photometry, gain and loss of function using DREADDs.

      Weaknesses:

      No weaknesses were identified by this reviewer; however, I have the following comments:

      A closer examination of the Test data across time would help determine if differences may be present early or later in the session that could otherwise be washed out when the data are averaged across time. If none are seen, then it may be worth noting this in the manuscript.

      Given the sex/gender differences in PTSD in the human population, having the male and female data points distinguished in the figures would be helpful. I assume sex was run as a variable in the statistics, and nothing came as significant. Noting this would also be of value to other readers who may wonder about the presence of sex differences in the data.

      Comments on revisions:

      Following revision, this reviewer felt all of the above comments were addressed.

    5. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study delineates a highly specific role for the pPVT in unconditioned defensive responses. The authors use a novel, combined SEFL and SEFR paradigm to test both conditioned and unconditioned responses in the same animal. Next, a c-fos mapping experiment showed enhanced PVT activity in the stress group when exposed to the novel tone. No other regions showed differences. Fiber photometry measurements in pPVT showed enhancement in response to the novel tone in the stressed but not nonstressed groups. Importantly, there were also no effects when calcium measurements were taken during conditioning. Using DREADDS to bidirectionally manipulate global pPVT activity, inhibition of the PVT reduced tone freezing in stressed mice while stimulation increased tone freezing in non-stressed mice.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of this research is the use of a multi-dimensional behavioral assay that delineates behavior related to both learned and non-learned defensive responses. The research also incorporates high-resolution approaches to measure neuronal activity and provide causal evidence for a role for PVT in a very narrow band of defensive behavior. The data are compelling, and the manuscript is well-written overall.

      Weaknesses:

      Figure 1 shows a small, but looks to be, statistically significant, increase in freezing in response to the novel tone in the no-stress group relative to baseline freezing. This observation was also noticed in Figures 2 and 7. The tone presented is relatively high frequency (9 kHz) and high dB (90), making it a high-intensity stimulus. Is it possible that this stimulus is acting as an unconditioned stimulus?

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. In our view, the freezing behavior elicited by the tone reflects an unconditioned response; accordingly, the tone functions as an unconditioned stimulus. Indeed, in our data we found a modest increase in freezing in the no-stress group during the tone presentation relative to baseline (Figures 1, 2, and 7). This effect, however, was considerably smaller in magnitude than the robust freezing observed in stressed mice. We conclude that prior footshock stress enhances the unconditioned tone response.

      In addition, in the final experiment, the tone intensity was increased to 115 dB, and the freezing % in the non-stressed group was nearly identical (~20\%) to the non-stressed groups in Figures 1-2 and Figure 7. It seems this manipulation was meant as a startle assay (Pantoni et al., 2020).

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this aspect of the model. In Figure 7, the rationale for selecting a tone amplitude to 115 dB was not to conduct a startle assay. Instead, we sought to determine whether chemogenetic inhibition of the pPVT influenced tone-elicited unconditioned fear in stress naïve mice. Given our prior experiments demonstrating that a 90 dB tone elicits relatively low levels of freezing in non-stressed groups, we increased the tone amplitude to 115 dB in an attempt to elicit a more robust freezing response that would be sufficient to detect meaningful group differences (i.e., prevent a floor effect). As noted by the reviewer, the 115 dB tone yielded moderate levels of freezing behavior. Although freezing levels were not very high, we believe they were sufficient to avoid a floor effect. There was no effect pPVT inhibition in this version of the task, which suggests that pPVT is preferentially engaged after stress. Future studies that identify tone parameters capable of eliciting high levels of freezing will be necessary to further strengthen this finding.

      Because the auditory perception of mice is better at high frequencies (best at ~16 kHz), would the effect seen be evident at a lower dB (50-55) at 9 kHz? If the tone was indeed perceived as “neutral,” there should be no freezing in response to the tone. This complicates the interpretation of the results somewhat because while the authors do admit the stimulus is loud, would a less loud stimulus result in the same effect? Could the interaction observed in this set of studies require not a novel tone, but rather a highintensity tone that elicits an unconditioned response?

      Within our framework, it is important to emphasize that tone intensity (amplitude and frequency), rather than the perceived novelty of the stimulus, is the primary determinant of unconditioned freezing behavior. Moreover, numerous studies have demonstrated that auditory stimuli have the capacity to elicit unconditioned fear responses, as in the case of pseudoconditioning. Accordingly, we agree with the reviewer that decreasing the tone amplitude from 90 dB to 50 dB would diminish the unconditioned freezing response. For example, Kamprath and Wotjak (2004) demonstrated that stress-naïve mice exposed to a 95 dB tone exhibited significantly greater levels of freezing compared to those exposed to an 80 dB tone. This graded effect of tone amplitude on unconditioned freezing was also observed in mice previously exposed to footshock stress. Notably, the authors also reported a plateau effect, such that increases in tone amplitude beyond 95 dB did not further elevate freezing levels. As it relates to our findings, this plateau effect may explain the rather modest changes in freezing behavior that we observed between the 90 dB and 115 dB tone.

      Along these same lines, it appears there may be an elevation in c-fos in the PVT in the non-stress tone test group versus the no-stress home cage control, and overall it appears that tone increases c-fos relative to homecage. Could PVT be sensitive to the tone outside of stress? Would there be the same results with a less intense stimulus?

      Indeed, as the reviewer noted, we observed an increase in PVT c-Fos expression in non-stressed animals exposed to the SEFR tone test relative to homecage controls. The finding is consistent with previous reports demonstrating that PVT neurons are robustly activated by salient stimuli and regulate properties of arousal (Penzo and Gau, 2022). Moreover, the PVT has been shown to exhibit neuronal activity responses that are scaled to stimulus intensity. For example, PVT neurons display increased firing rates in response to a tail shock compared to an air puff (Zhu, 2018). Thus, it is conceivable that a less intense stimuli would evoke a diminished level of c-Fos expression.

      I would also be curious to know what mice in the non-stressed group were doing upon presentation of the tone besides freezing. Were any startle or orienting responses noticed?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important question. Regarding startle responses, we have found that our standard 90 dB, 9 kHz tone parameter elicits similar degrees of startle between stressed and non-stressed mice (data unpublished). However, Golub et al. (2009) observed effects of prior footshock stress on acoustic startle. Further investigation of behavioral responses expressed during the tone is certainly warranted.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Nishimura and colleagues present findings of a behavioral and neurobiological dissociation of associative and nonassociative components of Stress Enhanced Fear Responding (SEFR).

      Strengths:

      This is a strong paper that identifies the PVT as a critical brain region for SEFR responses using a variety of approaches, including immunohistochemistry, fiber photometry, and bidirectional chemogenetics. In addition, there is a great deal of conceptual innovation. The authors identify a dissociable behavior to distinguish the effects of PVT function (among other brain regions).

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors find a lack of difference between the Stress and No Stress groups in pPVT activity during SEFL conditioning with fiber photometry but an increase in freezing with Gq DREADD stimulation. How do authors reconcile this difference in activity vs function?

      The reviewer points out a curious dissociation. Fiber photometry showed no effect of prior stress on the PVT response during single-shock contextual fear conditioning; however, Gq DREADD stimulation of PVT led to increased postshock freezing during this session. We don’t have a definitive explanation for this dissociation, but we wish to emphasize two relevant points. The first is that in our experience, post-shock freezing during the one-shock contextual fear conditioning session is modest, variable, and an unreliable predictor of long-term contextual fear. Thus, we are hesitant to draw firm conclusions from these data. Second, we did not observe differences in freezing during the SEFL context test, indicating that stimulation of pPVT during conditioning is not sufficient to elicit long-term enhancement of conditioned fear (i.e., SEFL). This suggests that the acute freezing response following shock exposure is mechanistically distinct from expression of conditioned contextual fear. Clearly, further research will be needed to clarify the conditions under which PVT activity regulates / does not regulate freezing.

      (2) Because the PVT plays a role in defensive behaviors, it would be beneficial to show fiber photometry data during freezing bouts vs exclusively presented during tone a shock cue presentations.

      We appreciate the reviewer's suggestion. Unfortunately, freezing data are not available for the fiber photometry experiment because the fiber optic patch cable interfered with mouse activity. We now acknowledge this as a limitation in the paper (line #202).

      (3) Similar to the above point, were other defensive behaviors expressed as a result of footshock stress or PVT manipulations?

      In addition to freezing behavior and locomotor activity in the open field, we examined the time and distance spent in the center of the open field arena. Consistent with our previous report (Hassien, 2020), we did not observe significant group differences between stress conditions, nor did we detect differences across the various experiential manipulations. We did not examine other defensive behaviors in this study. Ongoing research in the lab is examining a broader range of defensive behaviors in this paradigm.

      (4) Tone attenuation in Figure 8 seems to be largely a result of minimal freezing to a 115-dB tone. While not a major point of the paper, a more robust fear response would be convincing.

      Although our data indicate that DREADD-mediated inhibition of the pPVT did not attenuate freezing in non-stressed mice, we agree with the reviewer’s assessment that the 115 dB tone elicited only minimal freezing. Therefore, we remain open to the possibility that higher baseline levels of freezing might reveal a significant behavioral effect. We found it challenging to identify a decibel range that reliably evokes robust freezing in non-stressed mice. Future studies could explore varying tone frequencies to achieve a stronger freezing response.

      (5) In the open field test, the authors measure total distance. It would be beneficial to also show defensive behavioral (escape, freezing, etc) bouts expressed.

      We agree this would be valuable information, and we have noted it as a future direction in the discussion.

      (6) The authors, along with others, show a behavioral and neural dissociation of footshock stress on nonassociative vs associative components of stress; however, the nonassociative components as a direct consequence of the stress seem to be necessary for enhancement of associative aspects of fear. Can authors elaborate on how these systems converge to enhance or potentiate fear?

      We appreciate the reviewer for recognizing this important point regarding the mechanistic relationship between nonassociative fear sensitization and associative fear learning that occurs following footshock stress. At present, the majority of research on this topic has been conducted using the SEFL paradigm.

      At the behavioral level, previous studies indicate that manipulations that interfere or attenuate associative fear memory of the footshock stress event fail to block nonassociative fear sensitization. For example, both SEFL and SEFR persist in animals that have successfully undergone fear extinction training in the footshock stress context (Rau et al., 2005; Hassien et al., 2020). Furthermore, reports also find that infantile or pharmacological amnesia of the footshock stress memory does not occlude the emergence of SEFL (Rau et al., 2005; Poulos et al., 2014). Taken together, associative fear memory of the footshock stress event does not appear to be necessary for fear sensitization.

      If and how the associative and nonassociative mechanisms interact is an interesting question that we are currently investigating. PVT has direct projections to the central and basolateral amygdala, regions well known to mediate conditioned fear acquisition and expression (Penzo et al., 2015). Why PVT activity does not modulate conditioned fear in our hands is intriguing. PVT is a heterogeneous structure with a variety of projections (e.g., Shima et al., 2023), and it is possible that the PVT-Amygdala projections are not hyperactive in our paradigm. As we alluded above, further research will be needed to understand why stress-induced PVT hyperactivity affects some forms of fear and not others.

      (7) In the discussion, authors should elaborate on/clarify the cell population heterogeneity of the PVT since authors later describe PVT neurons as exclusively glutamatergic.

      The reviewer is correct that additional explanation of PVT cellular heterogeneity is warranted. We now provide clarity on this point in the discussion.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Nishimura et al. examines the behavioural and neural mechanisms of stress-enhanced fear responding (SEFR) and stress-enhanced fear learning (SEFL). Groups of stressed (4 x shock exposure in a context) vs non-stressed (context exposure only) animals are compared for their fear of an unconditioned tone, and context, as well as their learning of new context fear associations. Shock of higher intensity led to higher levels of unlearned stress-enhanced fear expression. Immediate early gene analysis uncovered the PVT as a critical neural locus, and this was confirmed using fiber photometry, with stressed animals showing an elevated neural signal to an unconditioned tone. Using a gain and loss of function DREADDs methodology, the authors provide convincing evidence for a causal role of the PVT in SEFR.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript uses critical behavioural controls (no stress vs stress) and behavioural parameters (0.25mA, 0.5mA, 1mA shock). Findings are replicated across experiments.

      (2) Dissociating the SEFR and SEFL is a critical distinction that has not been made previously. Moreover, this dissociation is essential in understanding the behavioural (and neural) processes that can go awry in fear.

      (3) Neural methods use a multifaceted approach to convincingly link the PVT to SEFR: from Fos, fiber photometry, gain and loss of function using DREADDs.

      Weaknesses:

      No weaknesses were identified by this reviewer; however, I have the following comments:

      A closer examination of the Test data across time would help determine if differences may be present early or later in the session that could otherwise be washed out when the data are averaged across time. If none are seen, then it may be worth noting this in the manuscript.

      Given the sex/gender differences in PTSD in the human population, having the male and female data points distinguished in the figures would be helpful. I assume sex was run as a variable in the statistics, and nothing came as significant. Noting this would also be of value to other readers who may wonder about the presence of sex differences in the data.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful feedback and have addressed these points as follows: In the methods section, we clarify that pre-tone and post-tone freezing behavior was averaged because we did not detect a significant effect of time across all experiments (line #474). With regards to sex differences, we clarify in the methods section that we did not detect sex as a statistically significant variable across tests (line #443). In addition, we have revised the figures to denote male and female subjects separately.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      Following discussion, the reviewers and editors agreed that the strength of the evidence could be updated to compelling, provided the comments were adequately addressed.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In the discussion around line 333, there is also data indicating a time-dependent role for PVT in conditioned fear (Quinones-Laracuente 2021; Do-Monte 2015).

      We agree with the reviewer’s assessment and have revised the discussion accordingly (line #364).

      (2) The 129S6/SvEvTac mouse exhibits impaired fear extinction but intact discrimination (Temme, 2014). Was there any rationale for using this line of mice?

      The reviewer is correct that additional explanation is warranted. We have amended the manuscript to include additional rationale for using the 129S6/SvEvTac mouse strain as well as address the findings of Temme, 2014 as they relate to our study (line #94).

      (3) Was there any reason why there were no c-fos results in the PAG and IPBM? You discuss those brain regions and their importance in the circuit in the discussion.

      In the current manuscript, we do show c-fos results for the lPAG, dlPAG, and lPBN (Figure 3). We highlight in the discussion the relevance of these regions in the fear circuit.

      (4) Take a look at Sillivan et al., 2018 for an additional reference in the introduction (around lines 61).

      We thank the reviewer for their suggestion and have included the reference in the introduction (line #63).

      (5) Can the authors show the c-fos data for aPVT and pPVT separately? The authors focus on pPVT for later manipulations, but the c-fos data is collapsed. Along these same lines, were there any corrections for multiple comparisons across the brain regions? While the subsequent experiments firmly support a role for pPVT in unlearned stressinduced fear response, a proper correction for multiple comparisons is warranted.

      We have revised Figure 3 to include c-fos expression for both the anterior and posterior PVT separately. To correct for multiple comparisons, we conducted twoway ANOVA (Brain Region X Group) with Tukey's-corrected posthoc tests detailed in methods section (line #577).

      (6) Do the authors provide rationale for why they began to focus specifically on pPVT versus aPVT?

      We agree that additional clarity is warranted. We have provided additional rationale for selecting pPVT as our primary focus in the results section (line #197).

      (7) Lines 298-337 of the discussion could be shortened. This long preamble is a summary of the results.

      We agree with the reviewer’s assessment and have revised the manuscript accordingly.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Additional analyses for fiber photometry and open field data to probe for PVT-related changes in defensive behaviors beyond freezing.

      As stated above, we agree with the reviewer that additional behavioral analyses would be valuable. Unfortunately, such measures are not available for the current experiment.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      As mentioned in the weaknesses, just checking for differences across time on the Tests, highlighting the M vs. F datapoints in the figures, and reporting if there are sex differences in any of the analyses.

      In the revised manuscript, we have included separate male and female data points for each figure. In addition, we provided clarity in the methods section reporting a lack of statistically significant sex differences across each experiment (line #443).

    1. eLife Assessment

      This valuable study shows that targeted mutations in specific cassava eIF4E-family genes can reduce infection and disease symptoms caused by cassava brown streak viruses. Through systematic knockouts across the eIF4E gene family, the authors provide convincing evidence that certain double mutants show resistance-associated outcomes. Overall, the work supports practical routes to engineer cassava with improved resistance and clarifies which host factors are relevant for this disease.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      It is well established that many potivirids (viruses in the Potiviridae family) particularly potyviruses (viruses in the Potyvirus genus) recruit (selectively) either eIF4E or eIF(iso)4E, while some others can use both of them to ensure a successful infection. CBSD caused by two potyvirids, i.e., ipomoviruses CBSV and UCBSV severely impedes cassava production in West Africa. In a previous study (PBI, 2019), Gomez and Lin (co-first authors), et al. reported that cassava encodes five eIF4E proteins including eIF4E, eIF(iso)4E-1, eIF(iso)4E-2, nCBP-1 and nCBP-2, and CBSV VPg interacts with all of them (Co-IP data). Simultaneous CRISPR/Cas9-mediated editing of nCBp-1 and -2 in cassava significantly mitigate CBSD symptoms and incidence. In this study, Lin et al further generated all five eIF4E family single mutants as well as both eIF(iso)4E-1/-2 and nCBP-1/-2 double mutants in a farmer-preferred casava cultivar. They found that both eIF(iso)4E and nCBP double mutants show reduced symptom severity and the latter is of better performance. Analysis of mutant sequences revealed one important point mutation L51F of nCBP-2 that may be essential for the interaction with VPg. The authors suggest that introduction of L51F mutation into all five eIF4E family proteins may lead to strong resistance. Overall I believe this is an important study enriching knowledge about eIF4E as a host factor/susceptibility factor of potyvirids and proposing new information for the development of high CBSD resistance in cassava. I suggest the following two major comments for authors to consider for improvement:

      (1) As eIF(iso)4e-1/-2 or nCBP-1/-2 double mutans show resistance, why not try to generate a quadruple mutant? I believe it is technically possible through conventional breeding.

      (2) I agree that L51F mutation may be important. But more evidence is needed to support this idea. For example. Authors may conduct quantitative Y2H assay on binding of VPg to each of eIF4E (L51F) mutants. Such data may

      Comments on revisions:

      (1) The authors explained it is technically challenging to generate quadruple mutant.<br /> (2) The authors have properly addressed my comment 2.<br /> I do not have more concerns.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Eukaryotic translation initiation factor 4E (eIF4E) acts as a key susceptibility factor for members of the Potyviridae family, and knockout of eIF4E family members enables the generation of corresponding virus-resistant germplasm. In this study, the authors performed systematic knockout experiments on the members of eIF(iso)4E and nCBP clades in cassava, which demonstrated that simultaneous knockout of the eIF4E-family genes nCBP-1 and nCBP-2 in the cultivar 60444 significantly attenuates Cassava Brown Streak Disease (CBSD) root symptoms and reduces viral titer. The authors further screened for CBP mutants without VPg-binding activity and identified the nCBP-2 L51F mutant, which loses the ability to interact with VPg. In the revised manuscript, the authors have addressed most of my previous questions and revised the relevant content accordingly. Overall, this study is a well-performed work, with extensive explorations carried out particularly in the gene knockout of members of eIF(iso)4E and nCBP. It provides an important value for investigating the functions of eIF(iso)4E and nCBP clade members in the development of disease-resistant germplasm, and the identified nCBP-2 L51F mutant also offers a crucial gene editing site target for the generation of virus-resistant cassava germplasm in future.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In the manuscript, the authors generated several mutant plants defective in the eIF4E family proteins and detected cassava brown streak viruses (CBSVs) infection in these mutant plants. They found that CBSVs induced significantly lower disease scores and virus accumulation in the double mutant plants. Furthermore, they identified important conserved amino acid for the interaction between eIF4E protein and the VPg of CBSVs by yeast two hybrid screening. The experiments are well designed, however, some points need to be clarified:

      (1) The authors reported that the ncbp1 ncbp2 double mutant plants were less sensitive to CBSVs infection in their previous study, and all the eIF4E family proteins interact with VPg. In order to identify the redundancy function of eIF4E family proteins, they generated mutants for all eIF4E family genes, however, these mutants are defective in different eIF4E genes, they did not generate multiple mutants (such as triple, quadruple mutants or else) except several double mutant plants, it is hard to identify the redundant function eIF4E family genes.

      (2) The authors identified some key amino acids for the interaction between eIF4E and VPg such as the L51, it is interesting to complement ncbp1 ncbp2 double mutant plants with L51F form of eIF4E and double check the infection by CBSVs.

      Comments on revisions:

      The reviewer understand Cassava is not a model plant, it is hard for the authors to generate multiple genetic mutant plants for experiments, so nothing was done to respond to the comments raised by the reviewer.

    5. Author Response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      It is well established that many potivirids (viruses in the Potiviridae family), particularly potyviruses (viruses in the Potyvirus genus), recruit (selectively) either eIF4E or eIF(iso)4E, while some others can use both of them to ensure a successful infection. CBSD caused by two potyvirids, i.e., ipomoviruses CBSV and UCBSV, severely impedes cassava production in West Africa. In a previous study (PBI, 2019), Gomez and Lin (co-first authors), et al. reported that cassava encodes five eIF4E proteins, including eIF4E, eIF(iso)4E-1, eIF(iso)4E-2, nCBP-1 and nCBP-2, and CBSV VPg interacts with all of them (Co-IP data). Simultaneous CRISPR/Cas9-mediated editing of nCBp-1 and -2 in cassava significantly mitigates CBSD symptoms and incidence. In this study, Lin et al further generated all five eIF4E family single mutants as well as both eIF(iso)4E-1/-2 and nCBP-1/-2 double mutants in a farmer-preferred casava cultivar. They found that both eIF(iso)4E and nCBP double mutants show reduced symptom severity, and the latter is of better performance. Analysis of mutant sequences revealed one important point mutation, L51F of nCBP-,2 that may be essential for the interaction with VPg. The authors suggest that the introduction of the L51F mutation into all five eIF4E family proteins may lead to strong resistance. Overall I believe this is an important study enriching knowledge about eIF4E as a host factor/susceptibility factor of potyvirids and proposing new information for the development of high CBSD resistance in cassava. I suggest the following two major comments for authors to consider for improvement:

      (1) As eIF(iso)4e-1/-2 or nCBP-1/-2 double mutants show resistance, why not try to generate a quadruple mutant? I believe it is technically possible through conventional breeding.

      (2) I agree that L51F mutation may be important. But more evidence is needed to support this idea. For example, the authors may conduct a quantitative Y2H assay on the binding of VPg to each of the eIF4E (L51F) mutants. Such data may add as additional evidence to support your claim.

      We thank the reviewer for their overall assessment. Regarding investigating a quadruple mutant, we agree that this is a logical next step to investigate. A conventional breeding approach with existing mutant lines, however, is problematic for several reasons; 1) cassava does not flower where this work was conducted, and 2) cassava is subject to inbreeding depression, resulting in both low seed set and considerable heterogeneity among progeny that do arise. Editing existing double mutants is possible, but would require a significant, multi-year investment to produce embryogenic tissue from existing lines and generate the new lines. Cassava has practical limits as a non-model plant. Given these constraints, we conclude that investigating a quadruple mutant is beyond the scope of the current work.

      For investigating the HPL to HPF mutation in other cassava eIF4E-family proteins and their interaction with VPg in yeast, we have now completed this experiment and included the data in the paper. Notably we find that generating this mutant for eIF(iso)4E-2 attenuates VPg interaction without impairing eIF(iso)4E-2 accumulation, while similarly mutating nCBP-1 and eIF(iso)4E-1 results in total and reduced protein accumulation, respectively.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors generated single and double knockout mutants for the eIF4E family members eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2, nCBP1, and nCBP2 in cassava. While a single knockout of these eIF4E genes did not abolish viral infection, the nCBP1/nCBP2 double knockout mutant displayed the weakest symptoms and viral infection. Through yeast two-hybrid screening, the nCBP-2 L51F mutant was identified, and the mutant was unable to interact with VPg, yet the nCBP-2 L51F mutant could complement the eIF4E yeast mutant. This L51F is a potentially important editing site for eIF4E.

      Strengths:

      This study systematically generated single and double knockout mutants for the eIF4E family members and investigated their antiviral activity. It also identified a L51F site as a potentially important antiviral editing site in eIF4E, however, its antiviral genetic evidence remains to be validated.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The symptoms of the iso4E1 & iso4E2 double-knockout mutant are slightly alleviated, and those of the nCBP1 & nCBP2 double-knockout mutant are alleviated the most. If the iso4E1 & iso4E2 and nCBP1 & nCBP2 mutants are crossed to obtain quadruple-knockout mutant plants, whether the resistance of the quadruple mutant will be more excellent should be further investigated.

      (2) Although the yeast two-hybrid identified the nCBP-2 L51F mutant, there is no direct biological evidence demonstrating its antiviral function. While the 6-amino acid deletion mutant (including L51F) showed attenuated symptoms, this deletion might be sufficient to cause loss-of-function of nCBP-2. These indirect observations cannot definitively establish that the L51F mutation specifically confers antiviral activity.

      (3) Given that nCBP-2 can rescue yeast eIF4E mutants, introducing wild type and L51F nCBP2 into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant viral infectious clones into yeast systems could clarify whether the L51F mutation (and the same mutations in eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2) abrogates their roles as viral susceptibility factors - critical genetic evidence currently missing.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for their constructive feedback.

      With regards to investigating a quadruple eIF4E mutant, please see our response to reviewer 1.

      The reviewer makes a salient point regarding the nCBP-2 L51F and K45_L51del mutations. Ideally, complementation of the ncbp double mutant with nCBP-2 L51F, followed by viral challenge, would address this question. However, the practical limitations, as noted in our response to reviewer 1, make this difficult within the context of this manuscript. We acknowledge that this is a limitation of our study and have been cautious in not overstating our conclusions.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In the manuscript, the authors generated several mutant plants defective in the eIF4E family proteins and detected cassava brown streak viruses (CBSVs) infection in these mutant plants. They found that CBSVs induced significantly lower disease scores and virus accumulation in the double mutant plants. Furthermore, they identified important conserved amino acid for the interaction between eIF4E protein and the VPg of CBSVs by yeast two hybrid screening. The experiments are well designed, however, some points need to be clarified:

      (1) The authors reported that the ncbp1 ncbp2 double mutant plants were less sensitive to CBSVs infection in their previous study, and all the eIF4E family proteins interact with VPg. In order to identify the redundancy function of eIF4E family proteins, they generated mutants for all eIF4E family genes, however, these mutants are defective in different eIF4E genes, they did not generate multiple mutants (such as triple, quadruple mutants or else) except several double mutant plants, it is hard to identify the redundant function eIF4E family genes.

      (2) The authors identified some key amino acids for the interaction between eIF4E and VPg such as the L51, it is interesting to complement ncbp1 ncbp2 double mutant plants with L51F form of eIF4E and double check the infection by CBSVs.

      We thank the reviewer for their assessment and feedback.

      Regarding analysis of higher-order mutants, please see our response to Reviewer #1’s public review.

      For investigation of nCBP-2 L51F in planta, please see our response to Reviewer #2’s public review.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Since nCBP2 can complement a yeast mutant, it indicates that nCBP2 can also complement Arabidopsis. Wild-type nCBP2 should be introduced into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant to determine whether it can complement Arabidopsis iso4e and whether the virus can re-establish the infection. The nCBP2 L51F mutant should also be introduced into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant to see if this mutant fails to re-establish the virus infection. Similarly, eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2, nCBP1, etc., should be introduced into the Arabidopsis iso4e mutant to determine whether they can truly complement the virus-infected mutant Arabidopsis, while the L51F mutants cannot.

      Arabidopsis encodes multiple eIF4E proteins, an nCBP protein, and an eIF(iso)4E protein, and knocking out the eIF(iso)4e gene specifically confers resistance to TuMV. Introducing cassava nCBP-2 into arabidopsis eif(iso)4e mutants is unlikely to restore TuMV susceptibility. Because TuMV belongs to a different genus than CBSV, we used the TuMV VPg interaction with arabidopsis eIF(iso)4E to test the generality of mutating the eIF4E HPL motif to HPF potyvirid VPg-eIF4E interaction. However, since this mutation disrupts arabidopsis eIF(iso)4E’s endogenous translation initiation activity in yeast, this mutant protein is not worth pursuing further. In contrast, cassava eIF(iso)4E-2 L27F retains translation initiation activity and has reduced interaction with CBSV VPg by quantitative yeast two-hybrid. It would be interesting to see if this particular mutant protein could interact with TuMV VPg, and if not, would then be worth testing for the ability to restore TuMV susceptibility in Arabidopsis eif(iso)4e. Unfortunately, we are unable to pursue these experiments at this time.

      (2) Given that nCBP-2 can complement yeast eIF4E mutants, the authors may introduce viral infectious clones into yeast systems expressing nCBP-2 variants to determine whether nCBP-2 supports viral translation. This approach could further clarify whether the L51F mutation (and mutations in eIF4E, iso4E1, so4E2) abolishes their roles as viral susceptibility factors.

      This is an intriguing suggestion, but challenging for a few reasons. First, an infectious clone of CBSV Naliendele isolate does not exist, although we have tried to construct one, without success. There is also no guarantee such a clone could infect yeast. We are aware of yeast being used as a surrogate host for a few plant viruses, such as Tomato bushy stunt virus and Brome mosaic virus but are unaware of a similar system for any potyvirid. Developing such a system would undoubtedly require a significant investmentbeyond the scope of this manuscript.

      (3) Phenotypes of all mutant lines with and without virus inoculation in Table 1 should be presented.

      Photos of un-challenged mutants are included in supplemental figures. Representative storage root symptoms for all lines have now been included in the supplemental figures as well.

      (4) In Figure 1c, the results of viral accumulation assays should be presented for additional mutant lines beyond ncbp-1, ncbp-2, ncbp-1 nCBP-2 K45_L51del, and ncbp-1 ncbp-2, particularly eif(iso)4e-1 & eif(iso)4e-2#172 and eif(iso)4e-1 & eif(iso)4e-2#92.

      We have previously found that subtle reductions in visible disease do not always translate to clear differences in viral titer when analyzed by qPCR (Gomez et al., 2018). As such, we focused on lines with the strongest phenotypes in viral titer experiments.

      (5) Inconsistently, the ncbp-1 nCBP-2 K45_L51del line showed reduced symptoms compared to wild-type in Figures 1a and 1b, yet viral accumulation levels were comparable to wild-type in Figure 1c. The explanations for this discrepancy are required.

      Please see our response to (4).

      (6) Root phenotypic data for all mutant lines shown in Figure 1d should be presented.

      Please see our response to (3).

      (7) In Figure 2b, GST control pulldowns showed detectable proteins. This background signal requires explanation.

      It is not uncommon to see weak signal in bead or tag-only negative control pulldown and IP reactions. Importantly, we see strong enrichment of VPg relative to these controls in our experimental samples.

      (8) Contrary to the abstract's implication, Figure 5c indicates that the L51F mutation impacts yeast growth, suggesting potential pleiotropic effects of this mutant.

      We interpret the results to be that nCBP2 L51F does not fully complement the yeast eif4e mutation, rather than nCBP2 L51F impacts yeast growth.

      (9) In vivo protein-protein interaction assays (e.g., co-immunoprecipitation) should be performed to complement the in vitro GST pull-down data in Figure 6.

      We appreciate the desire for these experiments and agree that they would bolster our Y2H and pulldown data. Unfortunately, we are not able to complete these experiments at this time, so have been careful not to over interpret the data.

      (10) Since the AteIF(iso)4E L28F mutant fails to complement yeast, the authors should test whether introducing the L51F mutation into other family members (eIF4E, iso4E1, iso4E2, nCBP1) preserves their yeast complementation capacity.

      This has now been done for additional cassava eIF4E-family proteins.

      (11) Indicate molecular weight sizes in all Western blots.

      This was done. As differences in buffer formulations between gel types can affect the mobility and thus apparent molecular weight of markers, we have provided in the methods section SDS-PAGE gel chemistries and specific protein ladders used in this study. Importantly we note in our experience that certain markers, in relation to proteins of interest, can vary up to 15 kDa between gel chemistries.

      (12) Figures 4d,e are not provided in the paper. Based on the content of the paper, the description in the paper likely corresponds to Figures 5c, d.

      Thank you for catching this error, this has now been corrected.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This useful study uses in vitro electrophysiology, projection-specific chemogenetics, and different behavioural tasks to investigate the role of Vglut1-expression in basolateral amygdala neurons projecting to the nucleus accumbens in aspects of motivated behaviour. Although the manuscript is clearly written, the strength of the evidence supporting claims about the role of this pathway is incomplete. Currently, the work may be of interest to some behavioural neuroscientists, but additional controls and further clarification of specific analyses would strengthen their broader significance.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to determine whether reward conditioning increases inhibitory regulation of Vglut1-expressing BLA→NAc neurons and whether this inhibition shapes motivated behaviors. They used whole-cell electrophysiology to measure conditioning-induced changes in synaptic inhibition and intrinsic excitability. Subsequently, they employed dual-recombinase chemogenetics to selectively inhibit this projection during behavioral tasks. The goal was to test whether suppressing the activity of Vglut1-expressing neurons would alter reward learning, valuation, and fear discrimination.

      Strengths:

      (1) The combination of electrophysical and behavioral assessments to dissect the function of Vglut1-expressing BLA→NAc neurons.

      (2) The various behavioral assessments employed to determine the effect of silencing Vglut1-expressing BLA→NAc neurons.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The introduction underscores the importance of molecular identity and population dynamics when studying the function of BLA→NAc neurons. Yet, the experiments and manuscript provide little to no information about the Slc17a7-expressing population under study. In fact, there is no evidence that the viral manipulations targeted this neuronal population (e.g., extent and specificity of viral transduction). Regarding population dynamics, evidence is meant to be provided by Experiment 1, but the results are difficult to interpret. The control mice were not exposed to the conditioning chambers, stimuli, or food rewards. These exposures may have been sufficient to produce the changes observed in the experimental mice (i.e., they may have had nothing to do with cue-reward learning). Further, the experiments provide no evidence that the observed effects result from prolonged conditioning, since there is no group receiving a single conditioning session.

      (2) The dual-recombinase approach employed does not permit conclusions about the BLA→NAc pathway specifically, because the effects of silencing NAc-projecting BLA neurons could be driven by modulation of activity in other brain regions innervated by these same neurons through collateral projections. This limitation must be clearly acknowledged by the authors, and the manuscript should refrain from making definitive claims about the BLA→NAc pathway per se.

      (3) The experimental parameters and measures used for cued-reward conditioning complicate any firm conclusions about the observed effects. The use of a 2-second cue provides a minimal temporal window to monitor cue-related behavior. This issue is masked in the data presented because what is labeled as "cued responses" includes responses that occur after the cue has terminated and overlap with those triggered by sucrose delivery itself. These post-cue responses cannot be classified as cue-reward responses since the cue is no longer present; they are reward-related responses. Perhaps the z-score calculation addresses this issue, but this is difficult to assess since the authors do not explain how this calculation was performed or what baseline period was used.

      (4) Throughout the manuscript, there is conceptual confusion regarding the fundamental distinction between Pavlovian (cue-outcome) and instrumental (action-outcome) responses. It is unclear why the authors aimed to study both types of conditioning, but greater caution is necessary when interpreting the findings labeled as "instrumental conditioning." First, no evidence is provided that initiation port entries constitute an instrumental or goal-directed response rather than a Pavlovian approach behavior. Second, many of the conclusions are based on analyzing reward port entries-a Pavlovian conditioned response identical to that measured in the cued-reward conditioning task. This conflation undermines claims about instrumental learning.

      (5) The data from the reward valuation and reversal learning experiments are difficult to interpret. The animals are not tested under extinction conditions (with the flavors present but without reward delivery), making it impossible to establish whether their behavior relies on learned associations or ongoing reinforcement. Further, the behavior generated by these procedures appears unreliable, with substantial inconsistencies across figures (compare Figure 4A with Figures 5B, C, G, H).

      (6) The results from the auditory fear discrimination procedure are also difficult to interpret. No conditioning data are presented, and the "enhanced discrimination" could simply reflect reduced overall responding to the CS-. It is not clear how this selective impact on the CS- fits with the authors' conclusions about enhanced associative salience (noting that the meaning of the latter remains obscure).

      (7) The manuscript contains several statements about behavioral outcomes that are not supported by statistical evidence. The list provided here is non-exhaustive, and the authors should carefully correct any conclusions that lack statistical support.<br /> a) Line 294 (Figure 2F): the control mice gradually reached a similar performance to the experimental mice.<br /> b) Lines 301-303 (Figures 3D-F): inhibition strengthened the temporal association between initiation and reward consumption.<br /> c) Lines 337-339 (Figure 4A): both groups increased their preference for 10% sucrose.

      (8) The manuscript suffers from a lack of clarity and/or transparency about experimental parameters and data. Clarifications about the following would be necessary for the reader to confidently interpret the findings.<br /> a) Number of animals of each sex in each group.<br /> b) Number of animals excluded and justification.<br /> c) Analysis of sex differences.<br /> d) A clarification on the control group used in the electrophysiological experiment.<br /> e) Whether the same animals progress through multiple behavioral paradigms or if separate cohorts are used.<br /> f) All protocols should be described in the methods section.

      Without clarifying the points made above, a reliable and fair assessment of the discussion is impossible.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study by Mercer et al. focused on Vglut1 neurons in the BLA that project to the NAc. They characterized reward conditioning-induced electrophysiological changes in these neurons, including a decrease in membrane excitability and an increase in inhibitory synaptic inputs onto them, and showed the consequences of reducing their activity in enhancing reward-seeking behaviors. Considering that Vglut1 neurons represent the majority of the BLA→NAc projecting neurons, the findings are important for potentially correcting some of the previous biases in understanding the role of BLA-to-NAc projection in reward processing, for example, the notion that this projection generally promotes reward seeking by conveying reward-associated cue information.

      Strengths:

      The paper is clearly written, with results strongly supporting the main conclusions for the most part.

      There are a few weaknesses noted. For example:

      (1) They used a retrograde recombinase strategy to drive DREADD expression in these cells; however, it is not known if they project exclusively to NAc or to other brain regions as well, and whether those other potential regions may mediate the DREADDs (Gi) effects on reward seeking. They also did not show which subregions of the NAc were innervated by these neurons.

      (2) They did not assess potential changes in excitatory synaptic transmission onto these cells after reward conditioning, which leaves a gap in concluding a shift toward inhibition.

      (3) They also did not report on whether the inhibition was specific to Vglut1 neurons.

      (4) Some statistics appear missing (Figure 3D-F), not optimal (Figure 5CEF and HJK using separate t-tests rather than repeated measure ANOVA), not clear (Figure 2I on peak timing or port entry), or has low n number (Figure 1 Ephys, animal-based manipulations).

      (5) They did not clarify why they used two different doses of the DREADDs ligand Compound 21 at 0.1 or 0.3 mg/kg for different experiments.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study by Mercer et al. investigates how inhibitory modulation of basolateral amygdala neurons expressing Vglut1 and projecting to the nucleus accumbens (Vglut1BLA→NAc) influences motivated behavior in both appetitive and aversive tasks. Using a combination of whole-cell electrophysiology, chemogenetic inhibition and behavioral tests, the authors demonstrate that (1) reward conditioning increases inhibitory synaptic input and reduces intrinsic excitability of Vglut1BLA→NAc neurons, (2) chemogenetic inhibition of these neurons enhances the number of conditioned approaches in a Pavlovian task and the number of nosepoke responses in an instrumental task, elevates reward valuation, and increases fear discrimination and (3) these effects are linked to salience assignment and associative strength, rather than altered learning or reversal flexibility. The work challenges the classical excitatory function usually reported about the BLA projection to the NAc and highlights an interesting and thought-provoking result. Nevertheless, the study does not address the potential effect of their manipulation on motoric impulsivity, nor did they provide a theoretical framework explaining this unorthodox yet interesting effect.

      Strengths:

      The study establishes the initial finding with a correlational approach that informs a causal study. They find convincingly that Pavlovian conditioning induces an increase in inhibitory inputs onto Vglut1BLA→NAc neurons that leads to reduced excitability. Causality is studied using a powerful dual recombinase chemogenetic strategy to selectively inhibit this population of Vglut1BLA→NAc neurons and determine the effect on different behavioral tasks. The use of different tasks provides convergence on their effect. This surprising finding provokes interest and will stimulate further investigation into the mechanisms underlying these effects.

      Weaknesses:

      Several important aspects of the evidence remain incomplete.

      (1) First, an important aspect of the underlying processes at play remains to be investigated. In all behavioral tasks, the authors find that their manipulation increases responding that they interpret as a facilitation of learning. However, none of the appetitive tasks include a control stimulus that could address the specificity of their effect. Given that on the Pavlovian task, responding to the CS is almost 100%, I suspect that their manipulation may induce motoric impulsivity. This aspect would clearly benefit from additional controls.

      (2) Second, I have several interrogations about the time-resolved probability of port entries (PSTHs).

      a) There is a mismatch between the results presented in Figure 1. Panel D shows a peak of responses on the PSTH at ~2s on day 5 (my remark applies to all days), suggesting that the average should lie around this value. However, panel C reports a latency to respond at ~4sec. Could the authors double-check their PSTHs?

      b) More generally, the fact that in the Pavlovian task all PSTHs show a peak at almost exactly 2 sec is quite surprising and raises questions about how they are constructed. Sure, the most salient event is the water drop occurring 2s after cue onset. Yet, if mice responded only to these drops, the peak response should occur at 2s+reaction time, which is not the case. Figure 2 shows that on the first acquisition day, responding is already centered around 2s and does not decrease with learning, except for treated animals.

      (3) Several methodological flaws are present.

      a) The authors need to report clearly the statistics. In most cases, the statistical test used is mentioned in the figure caption with a single P-value. Thus, on two-way ANOVAs, I do not know whether the P-value relates to the interaction, the main effects, or the post-hoc tests.

      b) Another important issue is related to the average time-resolved z-score probability of port entries. The bin size used, the smoothing (that is much too strong), and the baseline period used to calculate the z-score are absent from the methods.

      (4) This study reports that manipulating 70% of the glutamatergic projection to the NAc induces an effect opposed to what has been previously reported in many different studies. Such a surprising finding deserves a more elaborate discussion about the mechanism that could be at play.

    1. eLife Assessment

      In this study, the authors investigated how inference about the current task context, by weighting evidence based on surprise and uncertainty in the environment, is encoded in the cortex. Using MEG imaging and an impressive amount of analytic work based on normative decision modeling, they provided solid evidence for the involvement of the visual and parietal cortex. These results are a valuable complement to and extension of a previous study using fMRI measurements, by identifying the candidate regions that are of importance for the inference process, not just for encoding the end product.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This paper presents another excellent, sophisticated analysis from this group of brain-wide neural activity correlated with the tracking of belief about the generative state of a stochastic visual environment under volatile conditions. Whereas previous work focussed on the normative belief-updating dynamics mainly in brain areas related to motor planning, under conditions where the environmental state translates directly to a correct action, here, they abstract the belief-updating DV from a specific action by instead associating the environmental state to a stimulus-response mapping rule, to be used in a simple perceptual decision coming up after the environmental state cues. A decoding analysis shows that a remarkably large portion of the brain has activity correlated with the normatively evolving belief about environmental state and the evidence samples feeding into that belief. What the authors were trying to achieve, however, seems far more general than the above, namely, to study "the algorithmic and neural basis of higher-order internal decisions about behavioural context, formed under multiple sources of uncertainty", and I think that the loose implication of such grand notions (such phrasing brings to mind someone's choice to believe in God, to regulate their behaviour depending on whether they are on a rugby pitch or at church, etc, not how grating orientations link to left/right hand movements) muddies the value of the study. The authors thus may have overestimated the generality of the findings. I hope my impressions are a useful guide to focus the interpretations more.

      Strengths:

      One of the main strengths of the study is that it is a technical tour de force. As reflected in an unusually extensive methods section, the authors put an extraordinary amount of work into rigorous data collection and analysis, and all of it is described in excellent detail. The study also builds in a very valuable way on previous landmark studies on tracking of volatile environmental state linked to correct actions using MEG (Murphy et al 2021) and tracking of volatile stimulus-response mappings using fMRI (van den Brink et al 2023). Here, the environmental state is not directly linked to actions during the cues informing about the state, but instead linked to a stimulus-response mapping rule.

      Weaknesses:

      It is surprising, given this main innovation of abstracting the decision about visual position-distribution from particular actions, that the authors do not engage with the literature using EEG and fMRI to study such 'abstract,' 'motor-independent' or 'domain-general' (synonymous terms) decisions. The discussion, for example, mentions the curious lack of involvement of the frontal cortex, and the possibility of intermingled opposites being represented there; motor-independent EEG decision signals have been characterised by regressing against the absolute value of the differential belief-updating process for this very reason (e.g., see Pares-Pujolras et al 2025). Single-unit studies like Bennur & Gold (2011) have also found activity related to a decision about environmental state (non-volatile motion) even when that state does not yet translate directly to an action, and, like the current study, is instead specified in a later frame of the trial.

      Another weakness, as mentioned above, is that of overgeneralisation. It is not clear how "higher-order, internal decisions" are generally defined, and terms more concretely grounded in the paradigm at hand (as in van den Brink et al (2023)), e.g., 'tracking of environmental state dictating a sensory-motor mapping rule,' would seem more useful. Since this task tracks a belief about a sensory feature and how it maps to motor actions, it may not be as surprising a revelation that a range of sensorimotor areas correlate with it, as compared to more general, truly internal decisions about behavioural context involving no sensory input (e.g., deciding one has become hungry). Similarly, the authors paint the belief-tracking process of Murphy et al (2021) as "lower-order" and the current one as higher-order, but both cases are the same in that a hidden binary generative state needs to be inferred on a continual basis from a series of discrete spatial positions presented visually. The only difference is that in the current case, the belief about the current binary state is not transformed directly into an immediate action choice but rather utilised to map a follow-up stimulus to its appropriate action. These decisions then happen one after the other in sequence, with a contingency, but I'm not sure this constitutes a 'high-level' and 'low-level' in the way implied by the authors.

      The paper left me confused on the question of what these widespread decoding effects reflect - whether all areas directly compute and represent the normative DV in concert, or whether at least some areas reflect other processes that may correlate with the DV. Although the discussion mentions things like feedback modulation in V1, which seems to allow for the possibility that it is not directly involved in DV computation, the phrasing used ('encoding' and 'representation' and never 'secondary modulation') from Abstract to Results tends to imply direct involvement.

      Related to this, it seems that the extensive model comparison was done for behaviour, but not for the activation in each area, which may have suggested some dissociations in role - for example, for areas that showed decoding of the evidence (LLR), at least some of them may more closely correspond to the related lower-level quantity of simply spatial position itself, or the higher-level quantity of the transformed belief update (the change in prior from before to after the current cue). There is a map of areas that correlate with the difference of new vs old prior (if I understand correctly - Figure 4D), but not of areas for which activity conforms better to this belief update than to the objective LLR or location. Aside from such model-defined quantities, a critical factor is spatial attention. The authors highlight that the correlated activation of visual regions may reflect feedback modulations akin to attention in nature, but it might actually reflect attention itself, since it is plausible that subjects would pay more attention to the upper field when it is more likely that the centre of the generative distribution is up there (i.e., belief leans upwards). It seems the data could provide insight into this: If the visual cortical effects reflect a spatial attention modulation towards the likely generative source (upper/lower), then the relationship with prior, coded so that upper and lower have opposite sign, should flip in ventral versus dorsal visual cortex. Figure 4A seems like it could be positioned to answer this, but I can't fully interpret it because the prior coding is not explicit in the methods - the relevant section (lines 989-1001) refers back to the normative model description (without pointing to specific equations), which does not say what states S1 and S2 mean (upper and lower? Correct and incorrect? The former is needed to test for this spatial-specificity expected of attention). Even if there are reasons not to perform extra analyses related to the above, the impressions could guide edits to clarify what the data can and cannot say about what these DV-decoding effects reflect. Finally, it could be acknowledged that because the environmental state (upper or lower field generative source) is directly linked to stimulus-response mapping, even decoding effects that are not spatially-specific could equally reflect a representation of either one of these.

      The motivation for the decoding analysis running up to the response is not clear - what are the hypotheses here? Is the idea that if these areas truly represented the belief about the currently active context, then they should continue to do so during the response and beyond, since the next trial will begin in the same context as the previous ended? Or is this section tackling a different question? Is it that there is a potential confound in finding the significant decoding during the cue tokens, because it could be driven by the visual responses to the different spatial positions, and there are no such visual responses later at the response?

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Calder-Travis et al. investigate how people form decisions about abstract rules in environments that may change over time. They show that individuals adaptively accumulate information, adjusting how much weight they give new evidence depending on how surprising or uncertain the environment is. Using whole-brain recordings (MEG), they further report that signals reflecting beliefs about the current rule are broadly distributed, particularly in visual and parietal regions. They further argue that these belief-related signals cannot be reduced to representations of momentary sensory evidence alone.

      Overall, the behavioral results convincingly demonstrate adaptive evidence accumulation consistent with the normative model. The neural data provide solid evidence for temporally structured belief-related signals that are broadly distributed across cortical regions. However, the evidence for sustained belief maintenance "across" cues and for full dissociation from gaze-related influences in visual cortex is less definitive. These issues temper, but do not undermine, the central conclusions.

      Strengths:

      A major strength of the study is the integration of normative modeling with temporally resolved neural data. The authors exploit the fine temporal scale of the recordings to examine belief updating across distinct task epochs, and they show that neural signals evolve in a manner consistent with the normative model that best captures behavior. This alignment between behavioral modeling and neural dynamics is carefully executed and conceptually coherent.<br /> Another strength is the authors' cautious interpretation of their findings. They explicitly acknowledge limitations in distinguishing between direct representation of a latent variable and neural modulation driven by that variable. This restraint strengthens the credibility of the conclusions and avoids overstatement.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Evidence for sustained belief representation across cues

      Behaviorally, the data clearly demonstrate accumulation across sequential cues. However, the neural analyses primarily focus on responses around individual samples (from pre-cue to late post-cue windows). While these analyses demonstrate belief updating following each sample, they do not fully establish whether belief representations are maintained continuously across cues.

      Specifically, it remains unclear whether the neural representation of the prior belief is sustained from the late post-cue period of cue t-1 into the pre-cue period of cue t. Without explicit evidence of such continuity, it is difficult to conclude that the neural signals reflect a maintained belief state rather than repeated sample-locked updating processes. This distinction is important for interpreting the neural mechanism of accumulation.

      (2) Interpretation of belief signals in the visual cortex

      The claim that belief-related signals in the visual cortex cannot be explained by gaze position requires stronger support. The distribution of gaze positions across contexts appears largely non-overlapping, raising the possibility that context-related gaze biases could contribute to the observed neural effects.

      In particular, the "gaze-inconsistent" analysis based on a median split may not fully dissociate belief from gaze if the absolute gaze positions remain systematically different between contexts. As currently presented, the evidence does not fully rule out the possibility that gaze-related modulation contributes to the belief-related signal in visual areas. This affects the strength of the interpretation regarding abstract belief representation in early sensory cortex.

      (3) Clarity and transparency of task and model description

      Several aspects of the task and modeling framework would benefit from clearer exposition. The description of the noise distribution in the context cue would be easier to interpret if the overlapping distributions were visualized explicitly, allowing readers to assess how much accumulation is required versus reliance on strong individual cues. Similarly, the main text would benefit from a clearer explanation of how change point probability and uncertainty are computed (not just in Methods), as these quantities are central to the analyses and interpretation.

      In addition, temporal epochs (e.g., pre-cue, early post-cue, late post-cue) are not clearly defined with specific time ranges in the main text, making it difficult to compare across figures.

      (4) Interpretation of neural dynamics

      Several neural findings are intriguing but underinterpreted. For example, the absence of clear sensory evidence representation in early post-cue epochs in any regions (Figure 4B) is surprising and not discussed. The relative stability of belief-related signals in visual cortex compared to parietal regions (Figure 4E) is also unexpected and warrants interpretation. Additionally, the temporal dynamics of change point probability and uncertainty representations appear different from each other, but such a pattern was not described in detail.

      Clarifying these points would strengthen the interpretability of the results and help readers understand the mechanistic implications.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary

      In this study, the authors investigated how inference about the current task context is encoded in the cortex, using MEG measurements. Using the same behavioral task that was initially developed for an fMRI study to identify the loci of task context representation, the current results complement and extend the previous study by identifying the candidate regions that are important for the inference process, not just for encoding the end product. They reported widespread modulation of cortical activity by uncertainty in evidence and volatility of task context changes. In comparison, modulation correlated with the decision variable underlying the task context inference process was more restricted to the parietal and visual cortices, particularly in alpha-band activity.

      Strengths:

      (1) The normative model provides a solid computational foundation for disambiguating quantities related to decision variables from those related to task factors (e.g., uncertainty and volatility).

      (2) The MEG technique allows examination of cortical activity that is modulated by the temporally evolving decision variable.

      (3) Rigorous modeling efforts, including comparisons of well-reasoned alternative/reduced models and examinations of diagnostic features using participant-matched simulations.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) There are two major surprises in the results that raise concerns about how to interpret these data. The first is the absence of modulation of prefrontal cortical activities by prior or posterior. As the authors acknowledged, there are extensive single-neuron recording data (e.g., from the Miller group) demonstrating the presence of task rule modulation in the monkey PFC and prior representation in the PFC in the mouse study that they cited. The second surprise is that the strongest modulation of prior/posterior/evidence was almost always observed in the visual cortex, in contrast to the common embodied cognition assumption. A more elaborated discussion about these discrepancies would help contextualize the current results.

      (2) It is not clear why the effects in Figures 2D and E dipped before responses, which is not expected from any of the models. This could potentially affect the interpretation of the MEG signals in late-post-cue or pre-response periods.

      (3) The definitions of the different periods (e.g., early/late post-cue) are vague, making it hard to assess the functional relevance of the signals. For example, is the difference between the early pre-response map in Figure 5B and the late evidence map in Figure 4B due to completely non-overlapping time periods? A diagram of the timing definitions for different task periods would be helpful.

      (4) Perhaps related to #2, it is puzzling that evidence encoding is absent in the visual cortex during the early post-cue period.

      (5) The presentation and discussion of results related to correlated variability assume that the readers have already read their previous paper. A little more elaboration of the significance of this measurement would be helpful.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important study links blood-derived dietary content to sustained increases in sleep in the mosquito Aedes aegypti. Using multiple independent approaches, the authors provide convincing evidence for blood-induced changes in sleep. These findings have broad implications for understanding how specialized diets regulate sleep across species and for mosquito vector biology.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The presented investigation aims to expand the sleep definition and its relationship with blood meal and/or circadian clock in the mosquito, Aedes aegypti. The authors exhausted the established sleep analytical paradigm and three behaviour toolkits: LAM10, EthoVision, and DART. They also investigated the potential underlying molecular mechanism by using dsRNA injection (LkR) and a KO mosquito (Cyc-/-).

      Strengths:

      The authors presented a very solid dataset showing posture changes and an increase in the arousal threshold of the mosquito after 10 minutes of immobility. This is a major clarification and extension to our understanding of insect sleep beyond Drosophila. Inclusion of analytical parameters such as bout length, waking activity and pDoze/Wake provide critical reminder for other investigators of the steps needed for defining sleep in a new species. The investigation, with its technical span in behaviour assays, therefore establishes a good standard for mosquito sleep analysis to the same quality seen in the landmark studies (Shaw et al 2000 and Hendricks et al 2000) for Drosophila sleep. The pioneering data showing a clear effect of blood meal and LkR reduction on locomotion and sleep provides an entry point for further investigations.

      Weaknesses:

      Despite the versatility of the behaviour and transgenic methods in this manuscript, there are two logical gaps in the conclusion, which are related to the effect of blood meal/BSA/LkR KD on A. aegypti sleep:<br /> (1) Conventionally, a coincidence of sleep increase and locomotion reduction would weaken the certainty of a sleep increase assessment. The authors implied this concurrence observed after blood meal is derived from internal "drowsy" neural state instead of physical "cripple", but they did not use their two high-resolution video tracking velocity or pDoze/Wake to clarify this.<br /> (2) The major molecular component underlying blood meal effect on sleep/locomotion is less certain, because the BSA solution used for feeding contains ATP, which itself is able to enter haemolymph and potentially exerts sleep/locomotion effect. Additionally, the basal or control sleep recording is done after sucrose feeding. It is, however, unclear from the method if this is 10% too? And if the observed sleep level increase after a blood meal is a result of sugar level reduction in the blood (~0.1%).

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Zhang et al. investigate how blood feeding and dietary protein influence sleep in the mosquito Aedes aegypti. The authors first establish a behavioural definition of sleep using postural analysis and arousal threshold measurements, then demonstrate that both blood meals and a bovine serum albumin (BSA)-based protein diet increase sleep for several days. They further show that RNAi-mediated knockdown of the leucokinin receptor (Lkr) enhances sleep, implicating neuropeptide signalling in the regulation of postprandial sleep. The authors propose that elevated sleep persists well beyond the restoration of host-seeking behaviour, suggesting the existence of distinct "opportunistic" versus "determined" host-seeking phases.

      Strengths

      The central question is well-motivated, and the experimental approach is systematic. The use of multiple independent methods to characterise sleep - postural analysis, infrared activity monitoring, videography, and arousal threshold - provides converging evidence. The BSA feeding experiment is a particularly effective demonstration that dietary protein, rather than other blood components, is the key regulator of the sleep increase. The conservation of leucokinin signalling in sleep regulation between Drosophila and Ae. aegypti is a noteworthy finding that adds comparative depth.

      Weaknesses

      (1) Sleep definition.

      The authors settle on a 10-minute immobility threshold, but their own data do not convincingly support this choice. The arousal threshold data (Figure 1G) show no significant difference between the 1-5 min and 6-10 min bins (P=0.246), with significance emerging only at the 11-15 min bin. The postural analysis likewise indicates that sleep-associated postures appear at ~20 min during the day and ~11 min at night. A 15-minute threshold would be better supported by the data as presented. The previous literature used 120 minutes for this species (Ajayi et al. 2022), making this a dramatic shift.

      (2) Confound of reproduction and sleep.

      The primary experimental paradigm measures sleep beginning at Day 4 post-blood feeding, immediately after oviposition. Animals have undergone gut distension, vitellogenesis, and oviposition, and what is being measured as "sleep" could reflect post-reproductive quiescence or recovery rather than diet-induced sleep per se. The BSA experiment partially addresses this, but since BSA also triggers vitellogenesis and egg production (as the authors note), the confound persists.

      (3) Opportunistic vs. determined host-seeking hypothesis.

      This framework is presented as a key conceptual contribution, but the paper contains no data on host-seeking behaviour. The authors infer two phases from the temporal mismatch between a 72-hour host-seeking suppression window (from prior studies) and elevated sleep through Day 5 (~120 hours). While this is an interesting hypothesis, it requires actual measurement of host-seeking alongside sleep to be substantiated, or at least the caveats need to be discussed more explicitly.

      (4) Statistical approach.

      The methods describe "one-way ANOVA, followed by Mann-Whitney tests with Welch's correction," which is an internally inconsistent combination: Mann-Whitney is non-parametric and does not use Welch's correction (which applies to t-tests). Throughout the figures, F-statistics (parametric) are reported alongside what appear to be non-parametric tests. The statistical framework needs to be clarified and made consistent. Exact sample sizes per group should also be stated explicitly in the methods for all experiments.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This manuscript reports a potentially valuable modeling study on sequence generation in the hippocampus in a variety of behavioral contexts. While the scope of the model is ambitious, its presentation is incomplete, and there remains some lack of clarity on the methodology and interpretation. The work will interest the broad community of researchers studying cortical-hippocampal interactions and sequences.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Ito and Toyoizumi present a computational model of context-dependent action selection. They propose a "hippocampus" network that learns sequences based on which the agent chooses actions. The hippocampus network receives both stimulus and context information from an attractor network that learns new contexts based on experience. The model is consistent with a variety of experiments both from the rodent and the human literature such as splitter cells, lap cells, the dependence of sequence expression on behavioral statistics. Moreover, the authors suggest that psychiatric disorders can be interpreted in terms of over/under representation of context information.

      My general assessment of the work is unchanged, and I still have some questions requesting methodological clarification

      Strengths:

      This ambitious work links diverse physiological and behavioral findings into a self-organizing neural network framework. All functional aspects of the network arise from plastic synaptic connections: Sequences, contexts, action selection. The model also nicely links ideas from reinforcement learning to a neuronally interpretable mechanisms, e.g. learning a value function from hippocampal activity.

      Weaknesses:

      The presentation, particularly of the methodological aspects, needs to be heavily improved. Judgment of generality and plausibility of the results is severely hampered but is essential, particularly for the conclusions related to psychiatric disorders. In its present form, it is impossible to judge whether the claims and conclusions made are justified. Also, the lack of clarity strongly reduces the impact of the work on the field.

      Comments:

      The authors have made strong efforts to improve on their description of the methods, however, it is still very hard to understand. As a result of some of their clarifications, new issues appeared that I was not able to extract in the previous version.

      (1) Particularly I had problems figuring out how the individual dynamical systems are interrelated (sequences, attractor, action, learning). As I understand it now (and I still might be wrong) there is one discrete time dynamics, where in each time step one action takes place as well as the attractor and sequence dynamics are moved one step forward. Also, synaptic updates happen in every one of those time steps. The authors may verify or correct my interpretations and further improve on their description in the manuscript. It is also confusing that time in the figure panels is given in units of trials, where each trial may consist of (maybe different amounts of) multiple time steps. Are the thin horizontal red ad blue lines time steps?

      (2) As a consequence of my new understanding of the model dynamics, I have become doubts about the interpretation of the attractor network as context encoding. Since the X population mainly serves to disambiguate sequence continuation, right before the action has to be taken (active for only two time steps in Figure 1C?) they could also be considered to encode task space (El-Gaby et al. 2024; doi: 10.1038/s41586-024-08145-x).

      (3) Also technically, I wonder why the authors introduce the criterion of 50(!) time steps to allow the attractor to converge, if the state of the attractor network is only relevant in one time step to choose the appropriate continuation of the sequence of actions. Is attractor dynamics important at all? What would happen if just the input and output weights to the X population are kept and the recurrent weights are set 0?

      (4) Figure 3E: How many time steps are the H cells active (red bars?) Figure 4J: What are the units of the time axis?

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper develops a model to account for flexible and context-dependent behaviors, such as where the same input must generate different responses or representations depending on context. The approach is anchored in the hippocampal place cell literature. The model consists of a module X, which represents context, and a module H (hippocampus), which generates "sequences". X is a binary attractor RNN, and H appears to be a discrete binary network, which is called recurrent but seems to operate primarily in a feedforward mode. H has two types of units (those that are directly activated by context, and transition/sequence units). An input from X drives a winner-take-all activation of a single unit H_context unit, which can trigger a sequence in the H_transition units. When a new/unpredicted context arises, a new stable context in X is generated, which in turn can trigger a new sequence in H. The authors use this model to account for some experimental findings, and on a more speculative note, propose to capture key aspects of contextual processing associated with schizophrenia and autism.

      Strengths:

      Context-dependency is an important problem. And for this reason, there are many papers that address context-dependency - some of this work is cited. To the best of my knowledge, the approach of using an attractor network to represent and detect changes in context is novel and potentially valuable.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have adequately addressed my concerns. Most importantly, the details of the implementation of the different components of the model are much more clearly described.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This is a potentially valuable modeling study on sequence generation in the hippocampus in a variety of behavioral contexts. While the scope of the model is ambitious, its presentation is incomplete and would benefit from substantially more methodological clarity and better biological justification. The work will interest the broad community of researchers studying corticalhippocampal interactions and sequences.

      Thank you very much for your comments. We are very encouraged by your positive feedback. We have revised our manuscript to clarify our model, strengthen its biological justification, and make it more accessible to a broader audience.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Ito and Toyozumi proposes a new model for biologically plausible learning of context-dependent sequence generation, which aims to overcome the predefined contextual time horizon of previous proposals. The model includes two interacting models: an Amari-Hopfield network that infers context based on sensory cues, with new contexts stored whenever sensory predictions (generated by a second hippocampal module) deviate substantially from actual sensory experience, which then leads to hippocampal remapping. The hippocampal predictions themselves are context-dependent and sequential, relying on two functionally distinct neural subpopulations. On top of this state representation, a simple Rescola-Wagner-type rule is used to generate predictions for expected reward and to guide actions. A collection of different Hebbian learning rules at different synaptic subsets of this circuit (some reward-modulated, some purely associative, with occasional additional homeostatic competitive heterosynaptic plasticity) enables this circuit to learn state representations in a set of simple tasks known to elicit context-dependent effects.

      We appreciate it for carefully reading the manuscript and finding the novelty and significance in our work.

      Strengths:

      The idea of developing a circuit-level model of model-based reinforcement learning, even if only for simple scenarios, is definitely of interest to the community. The model is novel and aims to explain a range of context-dependent effects in the remapping of hippocampal activity.

      Weaknesses:

      The link to model-based RL is formally imprecise, and the circuit-level description of the process is too algorithmic (and sometimes discrepant with known properties of hippocampus responses), so the model ends up falling in between in a way that does not fully satisfy either the computational or the biological promise. Some of the problems stem from the lack of detail and biological justification in the writing, but the loose link to biology is likely not fully addressable within the scope of the current results. The attempt at linking poor functioning of the context circuit to disease is particularly tenuous.

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful comments.

      To better characterize our model, we added formal descriptions of each task setting and explicitly specified the sources of uncertainty. We revised the schematic figures in Figure 1 to more clearly illustrate our model. An important revision is that we now distinguish between stimulus prediction error (SPE)–driven remapping and reward prediction error (RPE)–facilitated remapping. SPEdriven remapping is triggered by mismatches between actual sensory stimuli and those predicted from past history and serves to update the current contextual state or to create a new one. In contrast, RPE-facilitated remapping is more likely to occur when executing an action planning sequence associated with recent negative reward prediction errors, possibly due to environmental changes, and promotes exploration of alternative planning sequences.

      “Based on the source of prediction errors, we consider two types of remapping: sensory prediction error (SPE)–driven remapping and reward prediction error (RPE)–facilitated remapping (Figure 1C). SPE-driven remapping is triggered when the mismatch between the predictive inputs from H to X and externally driven sensory inputs exceeds a threshold (see Materials and Methods), causing X to either transition to a different contextual state or form a new one (Figure 1D). RPE-facilitated remapping is more likely to be triggered when the agents execute an action plan following a hippocampal sequence marked by a no-good indicator. The no-good indicator indicates that the action plan, i.e. the hippocampal sequence, has recently been associated with negative reward prediction errors, possibly due to environmental changes (see Materials and Methods). It then facilitates the exploration of alternative hippocampal sequences (Figure 1E).”

      In addition, we added Figure 2C-E to clarify the neural representations of external stimuli and contextual states in the X module, as well as the neural representations within the H module. We also clarified the purpose of each model component and discussed plausible biological implementations to justify our modeling choices. Furthermore, we added a schematic illustration of our results related to psychiatric disorders in Figure 5B and revised the corresponding section of the manuscript to explicitly frame these results as a computational hypothesis. We also expanded the discussion to relate our findings to existing computational psychiatry models (see point-bypoint responses below).

      We believe that these revisions have improved the clarity of our model and broadened its accessibility to a wider audience.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Ito and Toyoizumi present a computational model of context-dependent action selection. They propose a "hippocampus" network that learns sequences based on which the agent chooses actions. The hippocampus network receives both stimulus and context information from an attractor network that learns new contexts based on experience. The model is consistent with a variety of experiments, both from the rodent and the human literature, such as splitter cells, lap cells, and the dependence of sequence expression on behavioral statistics. Moreover, the authors suggest that psychiatric disorders can be interpreted in terms of over-/under-representation of context information.

      We appreciate it for carefully reading the manuscript and finding the novelty and significance in our work.

      Strengths:

      This ambitious work links diverse physiological and behavioral findings into a self-organizing neural network framework. All functional aspects of the network arise from plastic synaptic connections: Sequences, contexts, and action selection. The model also nicely links ideas from reinforcement learning to neuronally interpretable mechanisms, e.g., learning a value function from hippocampal activity.

      Weaknesses:

      The presentation, particularly of the methodological aspects, needs to be majorly improved. Judgment of generality and plausibility of the results is hampered, but is essential, particularly for the conclusions related to psychiatric disorders. In its present form, it is unclear whether the claims and conclusions made are justified. Also, the lack of clarity strongly reduces the impact of the work in the larger field.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s valuable feedback. In the revised manuscript, we have improved the presentation of the methodological aspects by providing a more intuitive and general explanation of the model framework and training procedure. We also rewrote the section on psychiatric implications to more clearly explain how dysfunction in contextual inference occurs in our model. These revisions enhance both the clarity and plausibility of our conclusions.

      More specifically:

      (1) The methods section is impenetrable. The specific adaptations of the model to the individual use cases of the model, as well as the posthoc analyses of the simulations, did not become clear. Important concepts are only defined in passing and used before they are introduced. The authors may consider a more rigorous mathematical reporting style. They also may consider making the methods part self-contained and moving it in front of the results part.

      Thank you for raising the important point.

      To improve readability, we have updated Figure 1 to more clearly illustrate the main model structure and its adaptation to individual use cases. Additionally, we have moved the previous Figure 6 (now Figure S1) to an earlier point in the Results to facilitate understanding of the methodological flow. Method section is also revised to explain the algorithmic structure indicated in Figure S1. These revisions make the methods more self-contained and easier to follow.

      In the revised manuscript, we have clarified that our model is qualitatively related to the Bayesadaptive reinforcement learning framework (Guez et al., 2013) as follows.

      “In the framework of reinforcement learning, our model can be mapped onto a Bayesian-adaptive model-based architecture in which contextual state serves as the root of Monte Carlo tree search (Guez et al., 2013) in a simple, largely stable environment with noiseless and unambiguous sensory stimuli, and only occasional abrupt changes. In this setup, prediction errors arise from agent’s lack of experience or due to abrupt environmental changes. Once a context selector X infer the hidden state, the sequence composer H generates episodic sequences that correspond to trajectories in a search tree, each branch representing possible action–outcome sequences. Just as Monte Carlo tree search explores potential future paths to evaluate expected rewards, H produces hippocampal sequences that simulate future states and rewards based on its learned connectivity. In this way, X defines the context that anchors the root of the tree, while H expands the tree through replay or planning, thereby our model provides a simplified algorithmic implementation model-based reinforcement learning via tree search planning.”

      (2) The description of results in the main text remains on a very abstract level. The authors may consider showing more simulated neural activity. It remains vague how the different stimuli and contexts are represented in the network. Particularly, the simulations and related statistical analyses underlying the paradigms in Figure 4 are incompletely described.

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      In the revised manuscript, we have added explicit examples of simulated neural activity. Specifically, we added new figures in Figure 2C–E and showed representative activity patterns from both Context selector (X) and Sequence composer (H). We also clarified the distinction between activity in the stimulus domain (externally driven) and the context domain (internally inferred states)

      “Figure 2C illustrates an example of both the environmental state transition and the corresponding contextual state transition of an agent. The neural activity of X at each contextual state is shown in Figure 2D, where the environmental states … are represented in the stimulus domain and the contextual states … are represented in the context domain. … In the example transition shown in Figure 2C, the agent selected an environmental state transition from S2 to S4 in the 2nd, 5th, and 8th trials, which corresponds to a contextual state transition from X2β to X4β in the X module. However, because this transition was not rewarded, no synaptic potentiation occurred among hippocampal neurons. Subsequently, in the 11th trial, the agent attempted an environmental state transition from S2 to S5, corresponding to the transition from X2β to X5β in the contextual states.

      The agent received a reward at S5, and the corresponding hippocampal sequence was strengthened, enabling the agent to acquire the alternation task in the following trials (Figure 2E).”

      (see point-by-point responses below).

      We also added a detailed explanation of our results in Figure 4 as follows.

      “We consider a simplified environment of a probabilistic cueing paradigm (Ekman et al., 2022). In this study, two auditory contextual cues probabilistically predicted distinct visual motion sequences, and fMRI decoding was used to examine the frequency of hippocampal replay. We simplified this task as shown in Figure 4A. ”

      “... This result replicates Ekman et al. (2022), who showed that the probability of the contextual cues is reflected in the statistically significant differences in hippocampal replay probability in humans (Figure 4F).”

      “F, Our model behavior is similar to the human fMRI result of the cue-probability-dependent hippocampal replay (Ekman et al., 2022). Paired sample t-test. **P<0.01.”

      We believe that these revisions make the model description and simulation results more concrete and easier to interpret.

      (3) The literature review can be improved (laid out in the specific recommendations).

      Thank you for pointing this out. We revised the literature review to the best of our ability.

      (4) Given the large range of experimental phenomenology addressed by the manuscript, it would be helpful to add a Discussion paragraph on how much the results from mice and humans can be integrated, particularly regarding the nature of the context selection network.

      Thank you for your suggestion.

      In the revised manuscript, we added a new paragraph in the Discussion explicitly addressing how results from mice and humans can be integrated.

      “Our model is a functionally modular account of the cortical regions and hippocampus, enabling it to capture experimental findings across species. While hippocampal activity in rodents has been extensively characterized in terms of spatial coding, human hippocampal representations are more often non-spatial and episodic-like (Bellmund et al., 2018; Eichenbaum, 2017). For episodic memory to support flexible behavior, it would be beneficial to retrieve each episode in a contextdependent manner. The episodic contents may vary across species and individuals, yet the fundamental computations—estimating the current context from external stimuli and their history, and flexibly updating this estimate via prediction errors—are likely conserved. Holding context information until the contextual prediction error is detected is analogous to the belief state in model-based reinforcement learning, which is known to improve performance under partially observable conditions (POMDPs) (Kaelbling et al., 1998). Our model provides a simple algorithmic implementation of this principle.”

      (5) As a minor point, the hippocampus is pretty much treated as a premotor network. Also, a Discussion paragraph would be helpful.

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      We define action as a transition from one environmental state to another, and transition-coding hippocampal neurons are used for action-planning. Because our model does not incorporate errors in transitions (actions), the generated hippocampal sequences are perfectly correlated with the executed transitions (actions). However, we acknowledge that computations in the brain are more complex, with contributions from other regions such as the premotor network and the basal ganglia. To clarify this, we added formal representations of state transitions (action) in each task and the following sentences to the manuscript.

      “In Sequence composer, there exist two types of neurons: state-coding neurons, which represent each contextual state, and transition-coding neurons, which encode transitions to successive contextual states given the contextual state indicated by the state-coding neurons (Materials and Methods). Note that in the real brain, not only hippocampus but also the premotor cortex and the basal ganglia contribute to action planning and execution (Hikosaka et al., 2002). Here, however, we focus on how simplified planning sequences are learned and composed in a context-dependent manner.”

      “Our model posits that the Sequence Composer corresponds to computations within the hippocampus. As a biologically plausible projection, we consider CA3–CA1 circuit, where contextual inputs from regions such as the PFC and EC provide the current contextual state to CA3, enabling the recurrent CA3–CA1 architecture to generate predictions of the next contextual state without errors in action.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper develops a model to account for flexible and context-dependent behaviors, such as where the same input must generate different responses or representations depending on context. The approach is anchored in the hippocampal place cell literature. The model consists of a module X, which represents context, and a module H (hippocampus), which generates "sequences". X is a binary attractor RNN, and H appears to be a discrete binary network, which is called recurrent but seems to operate primarily in a feedforward mode. H has two types of units (those that are directly activated by context, and transition/sequence units). An input from X drives a winner-take-all activation of a single unit H_context unit, which can trigger a sequence in the H_transition units. When a new/unpredicted context arises, a new stable context in X is generated, which in turn can trigger a new sequence in H. The authors use this model to account for some experimental findings, and on a more speculative note, propose to capture key aspects of contextual processing associated with schizophrenia and autism.

      We thank the reviewer for this summary of our model.

      We would like to clarify that the hippocampal Sequence composer (H) is a recurrent network that iteratively composes the next state and the associated sensory stimuli in the sequence based on the current contextual state.

      Strengths:

      Context-dependency is an important problem. And for this reason, there are many papers that address context-dependency - some of this work is cited. To the best of my knowledge, the approach of using an attractor network to represent and detect changes in context is novel and potentially valuable.

      Weaknesses:

      The paper would be stronger, however, if it were implemented in a more biologically plausible manner - e.g., in continuous rather than discrete time. Additionally, not enough information is provided to properly evaluate the paper, and most of the time, the network is treated as a black box, and we are not shown how the computations are actually being performed.

      We thank the reviewer for suggesting an important direction for future work. The goal of this research is to develop a minimal, functionally modular neural circuit model that provides general insights into how context-dependent behavior can be realized across species, including humans. To simplify our model, we only considered discrete-time environmental states, where the exact length of the time step depends on each environment. Extending the model to a more biologically plausible, continuous-time framework is a promising direction for future work, such as using continuous-time modern Hopfield networks and synfire chains. We modified the Discussion section to clearly point out this direction.

      “... the resolution at which our model should distinguish different contextual states, including the stimulus resolution and time resolution, is hand-tuned in this work. While we used an abstract, gridlike state space with discrete time, an important direction for future work is to model its activity at finer-grained neural timescales, … In realistic, continuously changing environments, such resolutions should be adjusted autonomously. Introducing continuous and hierarchical representations with multiple levels of spatial and temporal resolution would facilitate such adjustments, potentially through mechanisms such as modern Hopfield networks (Kurotov and Hopfield, 2020) or synfire-chain–based hippocampal sequence generation (Abeles, 1982; Diesmann et al., 1999; Shimizu and Toyoizumi, 2025; Toyoizumi, 2012), but this is beyond the focus of the current study”

      Also, we would like to emphasize that our model is not treated as a black box. To improve the understandability, we have majorly revised Figures 1 and 2 to include additional details illustrating the neural activity and the internal computational mechanisms.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major comments and suggestions for improvement:

      (1) Formal link to model based RL is unclear: a core feature of inference is the role of uncertainty in modulating computation and corresponding circuit dynamics, in particular defining expected and unexpected degree of errors; as far as I understand the degree of tolerable errors within a context is defined by the size of the basin of attraction of the context module (which is dependent on number of items and the structure of correlations across patterns) and in no obvious way affected by sensory uncertainty (unless the inputs from H serve that purpose in a more indirect way). Similarly, most experiments are deemed to have deterministic (unambiguous) maps between sensory inputs and world state (although how the agent's state relates to environmental state is more complex and not completely clear based on the existing text).

      Thank you for raising this important point. Our model bears conceptual similarities to model-based RL frameworks, for example, the optimal-inference formulation that underlies Monte Carlo Tree Search (Guez et al., 2013), as we now clarify in the revised manuscript. These similarities, however, are qualitative rather than quantitative. In particular, the error thresholds that separate expected from unexpected outcomes are manually specified in our model, but their exact values do not appreciably influence the simulation results.

      Concretely, the heuristic threshold for SPE-driven remapping (𝜃<sub>𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑝</sub>) is set to 5 bits, allowing for small miss-convergence during recall in the Amari–Hopfield model. For RPE-facilitated remapping, the threshold is set to 𝜃<sub>𝑁𝐺</sub> = 0.7, making the agent sufficiently sensitive to abrupt environmental changes and enabling it to explore some candidate contexts after RPE-facilitated remapping. This simple thresholding scheme is adequate for our largely deterministic simulation setting, where contextual switches are rare and occur abruptly in an otherwise stable and unambiguous environment.

      Importantly, our goal in this work was not to achieve Bayesian optimality. Mice and likely humans in certain settings often deviate from optimal inference. Instead, we focus on the qualitative remapping-related processes that support goal-directed planning following epistemic errors. We have clarified this scope in the revised manuscript.

      “In the framework of reinforcement learning, our model can be mapped onto a Bayesian-adaptive model-based architecture in which contextual state serves as the root of Monte Carlo tree search (Guez et al., 2013) in a simple, largely stable environment with noiseless and unambiguous sensory stimuli, and only occasional abrupt changes. In this setup, prediction errors arise from the agent’s lack of experience or due to abrupt environmental changes. … However, these conceptual similarities are qualitative rather than quantitative. The goal of this work is not to achieve Bayesian optimality, but rather to show qualitative remapping-related processes that support goal-directed planning following epistemic errors.”

      “Note that we set the remapping threshold 𝜃<sub>𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑝</sub> = 5 bits to allow for small miss-convergence during recall in the Amari–Hopfield model.”

      “Note that we set 𝜃<sub>𝑁𝐺</sub> as 0.7 to make the agents sufficiently sensitive to abrupt environmental changes and enable exploring some candidate contexts after RPE-facilitated remapping.”

      (2) Improvement: start describing each task specification in explicit model-based RL terms, then explain how the environmental specification translates into agent operations. Be explicit about what about the process is inferential, in particular, sources of uncertainty.

      Thank you for this important suggestion. Following your recommendation, we revised the manuscript to describe each task explicitly in model-based RL terms. For each task, we now identify the relevant sources of uncertainty, which arise either from imperfections in the agent’s internal model of the environment or from occasional abrupt switches in task rules. We also explain how the agent infers the hidden state from experience to construct an appropriate context representation, enabling the model to perform the task successfully.

      (3) A lot of seemingly arbitrary model choices need additional computational and biological justification; the description of the process is fundamentally an algorithmic one, which includes a lot of if-then type of operations: the dynamics of different elements of the circuit switch between "initialization to landmark/other", "error detected/not", different forms of plasticity on/off etc and it is not discussed in way how this kind of global coordination of different processes is supposed to be orchestrated biologically; e.g. as far as I understand the sequential structure in H activity is largely hardcoded rather than an emergent property of the learning+neural dynamics.

      Thank you for this important suggestion. We have made a concerted effort to clearly describe the biological context and the relevant literature motivating each of our algorithmic assumptions. Notably, as highlighted in Fig. 1F, we emphasize that the sequential structure in H activity emerges as a consequence of the agent’s exploration and learning. We also explain how the two remapping mechanisms concatenate sequence segments to support long-term planning and to predict both stimuli and rewards.

      About Fig. 1F

      “At the beginning of learning, hippocampal segments are not connected, and H yields only short sequences that generate immediate actions and short-term predictions. As learning continues, the three-factor Hebbian plasticity rule concatenates these segments, thereby creating longer sequences that reflect the task structure (Figure 1F).”

      About “initialization to landmark/other,”

      “While the history-based initialization was introduced to select contextual state based on the history input from H (episodic), the landmark-based initialization was introduced to terminate the episodes that would otherwise continue indefinitely. Biologically, the landmark-based initialization corresponds to the operation of anchoring a contextual state to salient environmental landmarks - such as an animal’s nest - that serve as clear reference points.”

      About “error detected/not,”

      “Based on the source of prediction errors, we consider two types of remapping: sensory prediction error (SPE)-driven remapping and reward prediction error (RPE)-facilitated remapping (Figure 1C). SPE-driven remapping is triggered when the mismatch between the predictive inputs from H to X and externally driven sensory inputs exceeds a threshold (see Materials and Methods), causing X to either transition to a different contextual state or form a new one (Figure 1D). RPE-facilitated remapping is more likely to be triggered when the agents execute an action plan following a hippocampal sequence marked by a no-good indicator. The no-good indicator indicates that the action plan, i.e. the hippocampal sequence, has recently been associated with negative reward prediction errors, possibly due to environmental changes (see Materials and Methods). It then facilitates the exploration of alternative hippocampal sequences (Figure 1E). ”

      About “different forms of plasticity on/off”

      “We used different learning rules for the intra-hippocampal synaptic weights depending on withinepisodic and between-episodic segments.”

      “Within-episodic connections, i.e., state-coding to transition-coding synapses, are constantly updated in a reward-independent manner … This modeling is inspired by behavioral time scale plasticity in the hippocampus (Bittner et al., 2017), in which synaptic potentiation occurs for events that are close in time regardless of reward, and such plasticity is believed to support the formation of place cells, etc..”

      “Between-episodic connections, i.e., transition-coding to state-coding synapses, are constantly updated in a reward-dependent manner … This is supported by the finding that dopaminergic neuromodulation gates LTP, enabling preferential consolidation of reward-associated experiences (Lisman and Grace, 2005; Takeuchi et al., 2016).”

      (4) Improvement: Justify individual design choices by biology whenever possible; in the absence of such justification, provide at least a computational rationale for each such model choice. Additional justification for the neural substrate of different prediction errors.

      Thank you for pointing this out. Following the advice, we have added the computational objectives behind each algorithmic component in addition to the biological motivations described above. In particular, we have completely updated Fig. 1 to help readers better understand the key remapping mechanisms in our algorithm: SPE-driven and RPE-facilitated remapping.

      About the Amari-Hopfield model

      “We employ the Amari–Hopfield model because it allows multiple contexts to be stably maintained and selected in response to stimuli and can be trained via Hebbian plasticity. We assume that similar computations are carried out in prefrontal and entorhinal cortical circuits in the brain.” “As one possible biological implementation, we consider that Context selection in X as the brainwide evoked potential during which bottom-up information may be integrated with top-down signals to select the current context (Mohanty et al., 2025). In this case, it takes several hundred milliseconds for the contextual states in X to settle (Massimini et al., 2005).”

      About the default matrix

      “This contextual state is set as a default context, ensuring that the X module assigns a unique contextual state to each environmental state. Biologically, one possible interpretation is that this default context corresponds to modality-specific innate representations in prefrontal regions (Manita et al., 2015).”

      About state-coding neurons and transition-coding neurons

      “The state-coding neurons receive input from X and represent the current contextual state, while the transition-coding neurons send output to X and predict the next contextual state after an action ... One possible biological grounding for this functional separation is that entorhinal cortex provide contextual inputs to CA3, and CA3 and CA1 generates predictions of next state through its recurrent architecture (Chen et al., 2024).”

      About the no-good indicator

      “No-good indicator is introduced to transiently suppress previously established sequences that have not been recently rewarded, without devaluing them. This no-good indicator facilitates RPEfacilitated remapping (see RPE-facilitated remapping section) that leads to exploration of different contextual states in X and sequences in H. The no-good indicator is inspired by recent findings in the ventral hippocampus, where dopamine D2-expressing neurons of the ventral subiculum selectively promote exploration under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025).”

      (5) In particular, the temporal scale at which processes unfold with reference to behavioral time scale actions is fundamentally unclear: what determines the time scale of a sequential element? What stitches them together? What is the temporal relationship between H and X operations? At what time scale do actions happen in terms of those operating scales? How does this align with what is known about hippocampal dynamics during behavior?

      (6) Improvement: make the time scales of different aspects of the process explicit in the text, potentially with additional graphic support.

      Thank you for the questions and suggestions. In this work, we model the agent’s behavior in an abstract grid-world environment with discrete time steps, as is common in classical RL. At each time step, the agent observes a sensory stimulus, makes a plan, and executes an action based on it. The action induces a state transition in the environment. Accordingly, the model includes a single fundamental timescale: the environmental (behavioral) time step.

      The modeled brain dynamics in both X and H are similarly locked to this environmental clock. As clarified in Fig. 1F, each sequence segment corresponds to one behavioral time step. These segments are then chunked based on reward events, enabling longer-horizon planning and prediction.

      The agent’s cognitive operations at each behavioral time step are summarized in Fig. S1. Briefly, the agent infers the contextual state X from the current stimulus and its stimulus history, generates a sequential action plan H with predictions using chunked sequence segments, and then follows the plan when it is sufficiently promising. In addition, when sensory or reward prediction errors occur, the agent reorganizes the synaptic-weight parameters of the context selector and sequence composer. Once the agent becomes familiar with the environment, H typically generates an extended action sequence along with predictions of future stimuli and the resulting reward. The agent then executes this sequential plan, bypassing step-by-step context estimation by X, until a prediction error triggers remapping.

      The revised manuscript includes the following additions.

      “For simplicity, the environment is defined in discrete time, and agents move through environmental states characterized by distinct external stimuli. The model operation relies on the environmental (behavioral) time step. At each time step, the agents perform contextual state estimation by Context selector and activate a corresponding hippocampal neuron. Then, this hippocampal neuron initiates sequential activity based on hippocampal synaptic connectivity. Each hippocampal sequence represents a planned course of action and is used to predict a series of external stimuli. … The hippocampal sequence from which actions are generated is updated upon a reward. After the action execution, the agents repeat the process by selecting the current contextual state. As the agents become familiar with the environment, hippocampal sequences that enable future predictions to become longer, and contextual state estimation by Context selector becomes less frequent. The algorithmic flow chart of our model is described in Figure S1.”

      (7) As far as I understand it, the existence of splitter cells is directly inherited from the task specification, and to some extent the same can be said about the lap cells; please explain what can be understood from the model simulations that goes beyond what was put into the inputs/reward function for each experiment. Emphasize numerical results that are counterintuitive or where additional predictions about the dynamics come directly from simulating the model but would have been less obvious beforehand.

      The existence of splitter cells in our model is not inherited from the task specification. Instead, it emerges directly from the hippocampal module retaining sensory history (namely, whether the agent approached from the left or right arm), independent of reward structure or other task details. When sensory history is removed from the sequence composer (and, consequently, from the context selector), splitter-cell representations disappear.

      To develop lap-cell representations, immediate sensory history alone is not sufficient. The sequence composer must chunk episodic segments based on rewards to support sufficiently long action plans (i.e., history dependence) that span the multiple laps required by the task. The planning horizon - the length of action sequences - typically increases as animals learn a task. This progressive development of hippocampal sequences and their dependence on reward yields experimentally testable predictions. Notably, as we clarified in Fig. S2, the required sensory history length must also be learned adaptively: if it is too short, the agent cannot solve the task, whereas if it is too long, learning becomes unnecessarily slow.

      In the revised manuscript, we explicitly described the emergent process of splitter cells and lap cells as follows.

      About splitter cells

      “A second contextual state at S2, X2β, was generated through SPE-driven remapping at the second visit of S2 (second trial) due to history mismatch… In our model, the transition-coding neurons exhibit right/left turn-specific firing at S2 after learning is complete (Figure 2E, I), replicating the emergence of splitter cells.”

      About lap cells

      “the task environment changes again and the agents are rewarded for two laps, …. Either the shortest transition, ..., or the one-lap transition, …, is no longer rewarded, which triggers another RPE-facilitated remapping and exploration. During exploration, a history mismatch occurs …, and the contextual states for the second lap … are generated. Finally, the rewarded transition of contextual states and corresponding sequence… is reinforced (Figure 3B).”

      “This task can also be solved by simply preparing temporal contexts with three steps of sensory history (n=3), which is the minimal number to solve this task. (see Materials and Methods for Model-free learning). However, it takes much longer to find the correct transition for solving the 1-lap task than our model because it involves an excessive number of states (Figure S2).”

      “As the agents become familiar with the environment, hippocampal sequences that enable future predictions to become longer, and contextual state estimation by Context selector becomes less frequent.”

      (8) The partitioning of H subpopulation into current input vs predictive subpopulations seems to fundamentally deviate from known CA1 properties like theta phase processing, where the same neurons encode information about recent past, present, and future at different moments in time within a theta cycle. The existence of such populations (especially since they come with distinct plasticity mechanisms and projection patterns) seems like a strong avenue for validating the model experimentally.

      (9) Improvement: biologically justify the two subpopulations, discuss neural signatures of this distinction that could be used to identify such neurons in experiments

      We thank the reviewer for bridging our model with biological circuits.

      First, we would like to clarify that we do not claim that our H module corresponds to CA1 specifically.

      Rather, we assume that within the broader hippocampal loop (EC–DG–CA3–CA1–EC), subpopulations emerge that preferentially encode the current contextual states and the transitions to the next contextual states. This assumption reflects our hypothesis that the hippocampus implements a mechanism for predicting the next context given the current one. Importantly, this functional separation does not contradict known theta-phase coding in which the same neurons can represent past, present, and future information at different phases of the theta cycle.

      As a possible biological grounding, we particularly emphasize the CA3–CA1 projection. Recent studies have shown that CA1 representations exhibit a temporal delay relative to CA3 activity (Chen et al., 2024), suggesting a circuit-level mechanism by which predictions of upcoming contextual states may be computed based on the current context. In this framework, state-coding and transition-coding functions could be assigned to CA3 and CA1, or dynamically expressed through their interactions. Based on our model, we make testable experimental predictions. Specifically, we predict that neural representations in CA3 and CA1 should precede contextual switching in tasks such as alternation or multiple-lap tasks, and that perturbing CA3–CA1 computations would impair task performance.

      Please note, however, that our model does not characterize the sequence composer’s activity at such fine-grained neuronal timescales. Instead, we model the computation it performs in abstract time steps corresponding to the grid states (e.g., while the animal is at a corner of the maze).

      We have added these points to the Discussion to clarify the biological interpretation and to suggest potential experimental validations of the proposed subpopulation distinction as follows.

      “Our model posits that the Sequence composer corresponds to computations within the hippocampus. As a biologically plausible projection, we consider the CA3–CA1 circuit, where contextual inputs from regions such as the PFC and EC provide the current contextual state to CA3, enabling the recurrent CA3–CA1 architecture to generate predictions of the next contextual state. Consistent with this idea, the temporal lag in CA3→CA1 transmission suggests a functional gradient in which CA3 represents present-oriented information while CA1 carries more futureoriented predictions (Chen et al., 2024), and neurons in both CA3 and CA1 exhibit action-driven remapping and encode action-planning signals (Green et al., 2022). Our framework, therefore, predicts that changes in CA3→CA1 population activity precede behavioral switching in contextdependent alternation in Figure 2 or multi-lap tasks in Figure 3, and perturbation of this input will degrade the behavioral performance.”

      “While we used an abstract, grid-like state space with discrete time, an important direction for future work is to model its activity at finer-grained neural timescales, such as theta cycles (Foster and Wilson, 2007; Wikenheiser and Redish, 2015).”

      (10) The flexibility of the new solution in terms of learning contexts with variable temporal horizons seems an important feature of the model, but one poorly demonstrated in the existing numerical experiments. Could more concrete model predictions be generated by designing an experiment targeted specifically for such scenarios?

      Thank you for raising this point.

      As we showed in Figure S2, in environments with variable temporal horizons, our model performs better than model-free learning (Q-learning) that incorporates temporal context.

      To further demonstrate this point, we added a new task in Figures 3G and H, in which the 1-lap task and the 2+ lap task are alternated. Our model exhibits rapid switching between these tasks, regardless of differences in sequence length or temporal horizon. We added the following text.

      “To demonstrate the advantage of our model in a rapidly switching task that requires different history lengths, we show that an agent trained on both the 1-lap and 2-lap tasks can flexibly alternate between them in a reward-dependent manner (Figure 3G), selectively engaging hippocampal sequences of different lengths according to the current task context (Figure 3H). Together, these results illustrate how hippocampal lap-like representations emerge through learning and enable flexible context switching across tasks with distinct temporal demands.”

      In such a scenario, a subjective representation of laps in the hippocampus is the key to solving the task. As we responded to points (8) and (9), neural representations, especially in CA1, are expected to bifurcate between the 1-lap and 2-lap conditions, and this bifurcation would precede and critically govern the animal’s behavior.

      (11) I found figures confusing/uninformative, specifically in making it explicit what is external task structure and what is the agent's internal representation of it; as a result it is not clear what of the results is trivially inherited from the task specification and what is an emergent property of the model; e.g. Figure 2A described external transition specification according to world model but it is unclear to me if Figure 2B shows the ideal agent state representation across context or a graphical summary of what the agent actually learned from the sensory experience described in A; from the text. Figure 2F is supposed to describe a property of the emergent representation, but what is shown is another cartoon... etc.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comments regarding the clarity of our figures.

      To clarify the neural representation of the agent and how it links to the action, we have revised Figure 2 and the descriptions in the main text.

      First, Figure 2A schematically depicts the external stimulus as being determined solely by the task. In this task, animals must keep track of the immediately preceding state (S1 or S3) to correctly choose between S4 and S5 upon reaching S2. Without such a memory of prior states, an agent would have no basis for distinguishing which action is appropriate, and therefore cannot selectively move to S4 and S5. Therefore, any reinforcement learning model that does not incorporate at least a onestep state history cannot solve the task.

      To solve the task, S2 must be represented as two distinct contextual states depending on the previous state. Figure 2B therefore illustrates an example of internal representation that separates S2 into X2α and X2β: transitions from S1 to S2 are internally represented as X1 → X2α, whereas transitions from S3 to S2 are represented as X3 → X2β. Although the sensory inputs provided to the model correspond only to the task-defined states in Figure 2A, the combination of the sensory input with contextual states in Context selector successfully achieves this contextual representation of X2α and X2β (see Figure 2C, D). Also, the hippocampal neurons in Sequence composer indicate the next contextual states given the current contextual states, i.e., X2α→X4 and X2β→X5 (see Figure 2E). Thus, combining Context selector and Sequence composer successfully achieves the task requirement indicated in Figure 2B.

      Regarding the reviewer’s concern that Figure 2F (now Figure 2I) appeared to be another cartoon, we have revised the panel to clearly display our result. These results demonstrate that some hippocampal neurons in our model encode the transition from X2α→X4 and X2β→X5. The updated figure clarifies that our hippocampal neurons functionally work similarly to the splitter cells in Wood et al., 2000.

      (12) Improvement: use visuals and captions. Make it clear what is a cartoon, what is a model specification, and what is an actual result. Replace/complement algorithmic cartoons in Figure 1 with a description of the actual result.

      Thank you for raising this point.

      As we explained in the previous point (11), we added Figure 2D and Figure 2E for displaying the actual neural activity, and the corresponding annotations in the manuscript, e.g, X2α. Also, we revised the cartoons of our model description in Figure 1 to better describe our model structure.

      (13) Map between model and experimental results is poorly justified: in particular the nature of sensory inputs is not clearly specified, and how the experimental manipulations (e.g. MEC input disruption) map into model manipulations is not intuitive and no justification is provided for the choices beyond that the model ends up matching the experiment by some metric. Also, not clear why a tradeoff of neural resources as implemented in the model makes sense for the clinical case and how this hypothesis deviates from alternative Bayesian accounts invoking imperfections in inference (e.g. relative strength of priors vs likelihood as reported by e.g. P.Series's group, or issues with hierarchical inference more generally along R.Jardri's work).

      Thank you for raising this important point. We have revised the manuscript to clarify the mapping between model components, sensory inputs, and the experimental manipulations, and to further justify the clinical interpretation.

      About sensory inputs

      First, each environmental state in our model is represented as a binary (0/1) pattern. We have added Figure 2D to explicitly illustrate these sensory stimuli and how they are provided to the context-selection module.

      About mapping between model components and brain circuits

      Functionally, we speculate that Context selector (X) corresponds to computations carried out in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and entorhinal cortex (EC), and Sequence composer (H) corresponds to the hippocampus. Inputs from the PFC are thought to reach the hippocampus via the EC. Therefore, suppression of MEC→hippocampus inputs in Sun et al. (2020) naturally maps onto blocking a subset of the inputs from X to H in our model.

      We clarified this correspondence in the revised manuscript and now explicitly justify why this manipulation matches the biological experiment.

      Relation to Bayesian theories

      We agree that Bayesian accounts have provided influential explanations of psychiatric symptoms by invoking imperfections in inference, such as imbalances between priors and likelihoods (e.g., work by P. Series and colleagues) or disruptions in hierarchical inference (e.g., work by Jardri and others). Our model complements these frameworks by explicitly incorporating sequential structure and context remapping. Rather than treating priors as static or fixed-weight quantities, our model allows contextual representations to be dynamically reorganized based on prediction errors over time. In the SZ-like condition, we assume that an excessively expanded context domain increases the influence of internally generated contextual predictions, causing them to override sensory inputs and resulting in maladaptive behavior with hallucination-like percepts. Importantly, this effect reflects not only stronger priors but also excessive generation and competition of contextual states, leading to unstable and non-reproducible remapping. In contrast, in the ASD-like condition, sensory-weighted context representations limit the ability to flexibly incorporate newly introduced contexts, causing the model to perseverate on an initially learned context and thereby reproduce inflexible behavior. We added a schematic illustration in Figure 5B and expanded the Discussion to clarify this point.

      “When the stimulus domain is relatively underrepresented, the reconstruction of contextual state in the Amari-Hopfield network tends to infer contextual states based on the context domain rather than the stimulus domain. Consequently, it converges to an incorrect attractor that is not assigned to the current environmental state, thereby increasing perceptual error for external stimuli (hallucination-like effects). Moreover, SPE-driven remapping and the corresponding synaptic plasticity occur more frequently. In contrast, when the stimulus domain is overrepresented, the Amari-Hopfield network rarely assigns multiple contextual states to a given environmental state, leading to an overuse of default contextual states (see Figure 5B and Materials and Methods). ”

      “Our model also provides an algorithmic-level account of psychiatric symptoms by changing the relative weighting of sensory-encoding versus context-coding neurons. This implementation is analogous to Bayesian theories linking priors to psychiatric symptoms. In SZ, hallucinations and delusions have been modeled as arising from overly strong top-down priors (Powers et al., 2016) or circular inference, which leads to erroneous belief formation (Jardri et al., 2017; Jardri and Denève, 2013). In our model, we used an underrepresented stimulus domain to increase the relative influence of internally generated context representation in context selection. Crucially, this implementation does not simply strengthen priors but induces excessive generation and competition of contextual states, leading to frequent yet non-reproducible remapping of hippocampal contextual activity and a failure of learning to converge despite repeated experience. In ASD, it has been argued that abnormally high sensory precision reduces the updating of expectations (Karvelis et al., 2018) or leads to sensory-dominant perception, which has been interpreted as weak priors (Angeletos, Chrysaitis, and Seriès, 2023; Lawson et al., 2014; Pellicano and Burr, 2012). In our framework, we used an overrepresented stimulus domain to increase the relative influence of external stimulus representations in context selection. Importantly, our model captures not only sensory-dominant processing emphasized in previous studies, but also a distinctive impairment in flexibly utilizing newly introduced contexts, reflecting a failure of context reconstruction and resulting in persistent inflexible behavior. Thus, our conjunctive modeling of sensory and context processing complements Bayesian accounts of psychiatric symptoms and provides a mechanistic explanation for the role of sensory processing in maladaptive, inflexible behavior. ”

      (14) Improvement: justify choices, explain in more detail relationships with computational psychiatry literature.

      Thank you for pointing it out. As we explained in the previous point (13), we justified our model choice in the revised version.

      Minor comments:

      (1) Typos: "algorism" (pg2), duplicate Sun reference.

      Thank you for finding the typo and the missing reference. We revised accordingly.

      (2) Unclear statements from Methods:

      • "preparing temporal context with three histories" not sure what is meant by this.

      • "... state estimation by the context-selection module becomes less frequent." (Methods/Overview): what is the mechanism?

      • "default pattern" and failure to converge: What is the biological basis for them?

      • Why is the converter function used on some occasions but not others?

      • "new contextual state is prepared": What does that mean?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out several unclear statements in the Methods section.

      • “preparing temporal context with three histories”

      We now explicitly state the formal description of three histories in the Methods as follows.

      “the state is defined by the recent n-step transition history of task state (i.e. 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> =(𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub>,𝑆<sub>𝑘−1</sub>, ⋯,𝑆<sub>𝑘−𝑛</sub>)<sup>𝑇</sup> , where 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> is the temporal context state, and 𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub> is the environmental state at time 𝑘). We changed n from 0 to 3.”

      • “state estimation by the context-selection module becomes less frequent”

      In our model, context selection is performed every time the agents execute an action sequence generated by Sequence composer. As learning progresses, the Sequence composer comes to predict distant future states and executes coherent action sequences based on these predictions. When no unexpected errors are encountered during execution, context estimation is suppressed, resulting in less frequent context selection. We modified the manuscript as follows.

      “After the action execution, the agents repeat the process by selecting the current contextual state. As the agents become familiar with the environment, hippocampal sequences that enable future predictions to become longer, and contextual state estimation by Context selector becomes less frequent. The algorithmic flow chart of our model is described in Figure S1.”

      • “default pattern”

      In biological systems, it is reported that the frontal cortex shows sensory modality-specific representation without prior learning (Manita et al., 2015). We refer to these innate modalityspecific sensory representations as the default pattern. In the early stages of learning, we assume that no stable contextual representations have yet been formed in the brain, and therefore, a default pattern uniquely driven by external stimuli is used as the context representation. Even during intermediate stages of learning, the context selector may fail to converge to a specific state. In such context-uncertain environments, it has been reported that agents often rely on previously learned or habitual action choices (psychological inertia), which is evident in ASD patients.

      “This contextual state is set as a default context, ensuring that the X module assigns a unique contextual state to each environmental state. Biologically, one possible interpretation is that this default context corresponds to modality-specific innate representations in prefrontal regions (Manita et al., 2015).”

      “This default implementation is analogous to psychological inertia, particularly under uncertainty (Ip and Nei, 2025; Sautua, 2017), which has been reported to be more pronounced in ASD patients (Joyce et al., 2017).”

      • Why is the converter function used only in some cases?

      The converter function A(stim → context) was introduced to compose the default pattern (one-toone mappings between stimuli and contexts) as we described above. In other cases, the Hopfield dynamics were used to select contextual states; therefore, we did not use the converter function.

      • “new contextual state is prepared”

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      The term “prepared” was inaccurate. We revised it to “generated”.

      In the case of remapping, we assumed that X generates a new random neural activity pattern in its contextual domain and stores it as a new contextual state. We described this process as “a new contextual state is generated”.

      (3) Please explain the mapping between hippocampal sequences to actions in more detail for each task.

      • Why 9 attempts before rejection?

      • Why all the variations on Hebb?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s request for clarification. Below, we provide additional explanations point by point.

      Mapping between hippocampal sequences and actions

      In this research, we defined action as the transition from one environmental state to another environmental state. The hippocampal sequences predict the transition of environmental states; therefore, they correspond to a set of action plans from the current environmental state. In the revised manuscript, we added the formal definition of environmental states and actions in each task.

      • Why 9 attempts before rejection?

      These repetitions ensure adequate exploration of the contextual states in X and the episodic sequence in H before committing to an action. Increasing the number of attempts excessively causes the reward value function to be dominated by a single highest-scoring sequence, thereby causing excessive exploitation and narrowing behavioral variability. While the exact number 9 is not critical—the qualitative results are robust to moderate changes—we selected this value because it provides a good balance between exploration and exploitation and produces the clearest visualizations in our figures. We have clarified this in Method below.

      “We set the number of attempts before rejection to nine, providing a balance between exploration and exploitation and serving as a good compromise for visualization.”

      • Why all the variations on Hebbian learning?

      We consider three loci of plasticity in our model: the X module, the H module, and their reciprocal connections. Within the H module, synaptic connections that link episodic segments—specifically from transition-coding neurons to state-coding neurons—are assumed to follow a reward prediction error–dependent, supervised form of Hebbian learning. This choice reflects the need to selectively reinforce transitions that lead to successful outcomes. In contrast, all other synaptic updates in the model are assumed to follow reward-independent, activity-based Hebbian learning. These learning rules support the unsupervised formation and stabilization of contextual representations and action execution.

      In addition to the basic Hebbian rule, we introduced biologically motivated constraints, such as upper and lower bounds on synaptic weights and heterosynaptic depression, which weakens nonpotentiated synapses. Importantly, these mechanisms do not alter the fundamental nature of Hebbian learning but increase the stability of our model.

      (4) For Q learning: please clarify "the state is defined by the recent transition history of task state.

      As you suggested, we clarified the statement by adding the following sentences in Method. “To highlight the advantage of our model, we compared it to the Q-learning with temporal contexts, namely, the state is defined by the recent n-step transition history of task states (i.e. 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> =(𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub>,𝑆<sub>𝑘−1</sub>, ⋯,𝑆<sub>𝑘−𝑛</sub>)<sup>𝑇</sup> , where 𝑠<sub>𝑘</sub><sup>(𝑛)</sup> is the temporal context state, and 𝑆<sub>𝑘</sub> is the environmental state at time 𝑘.”

      (5) What is the purpose and biological justification for the NG addition to RW?

      Thank you for raising this point. The prediction-error–based update of each sequence’s value function 𝑅 alone cannot distinguish between two fundamentally different cases:

      (a) the value of a sequence has genuinely decreased, or

      (b) the sequence remains useful, but it is just not appropriate in the current context. This distinction is essential for modeling context-dependent switching of behavioral strategies. To address this, we introduced the No-good (NG) indicator. NG allows the agent to temporarily mark certain sequences as unsuitable without altering their long-term value, thereby facilitating short-term exploration of alternative sequences. In other words, NG provides a mechanism for transiently suppressing a previously valid sequence in case of contextual changes, while preserving the underlying value learned in past experiences.

      This mechanism is consistent with several lines of biological evidence. First, extinction learning after fear conditioning does not erase the original fear memory but instead forms a new memory trace, known to be stored in the medial PFC (Milad & Quirk, 2002). This suggests that animals may switch to a different contextual representation rather than simply downgrading the value of the conditioned stimulus, supporting the idea of temporarily suppressing a sequence without modifying its intrinsic value.

      Second, recent studies in the ventral hippocampus show that dopamine D2–expressing neurons in the ventral subiculum promote exploration specifically under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025). This finding is consistent with the short-term exploratory behavior enabled by our NG mechanism. Thus, we added the following statement to the manuscript:

      “No-good indicator is introduced to transiently suppress previously established sequences that have not been recently rewarded, without devaluing them. This no-good indicator facilitates RPEfacilitated remapping … that leads to exploration of different contextual states in X and sequences in H. The no-good indicator is inspired by recent findings in the ventral hippocampus, where dopamine D2-expressing neurons of the ventral subiculum selectively promote exploration under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025).”

      Together, these biological findings provide a conceptual basis for modeling NG as a contextsensitive, transient modulation that encourages exploration without overwriting previously learned sequence values.

      (6) Missing details about H network size

      Thank you for pointing it out.

      We used 300 neurons for H. We indicated it as below.

      “We model the hippocampus with an N = 300 binary recurrent neural network.”

      (7) S1 figure: learning is slower even in the early, easy phases of learning when the temporal dependence should not matter; how are learning rates calibrated across models?

      Thank you for raising this point. In our model, the learning rate was fixed at 0.15, whereas the control model (now shown in Figure S2) uses a higher learning rate of 0.4, independent of temporal context.

      Regarding why learning appears slower even in the early, easy phases, when the number of temporal contexts increases, the size of the state space expands. This broadening of the state space makes it more time-consuming to identify and reinforce the appropriate state transitions. This is especially evident in easy phases because the temporal context prepared in the model is excessive to the number of temporal contexts that the task requires.

      Importantly, unlike the control model, which postulated a fixed number of temporal contexts, our model gradually increases the number of temporal contexts depending on prediction error. This adaptive mechanism allows the model to achieve fast learning during early, easy phases while still enabling more complex learning in later phases.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) "Hippocampal neurons show sequential activity...." The authors should include more classical references for hippocampal sequential activity at this point, too.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We added the citations below

      Skaggs and McNaughton, 1996; Wilson and McNaughton, 1993

      (2) "...called remapping" also here, please reference classic work (Bostock, Muller, ...)

      As suggested, we added the citations below

      Bostock et al., 1991; Muller and Kubie, 1987

      (3) "Several theoretical models..." What I miss here are models that explain remapping by inputs from the grid cell population, and/or the LEC (see Latuske 2017 for review), still widely considered the standard mechanism. Also, the models by Stachenfeld et al. 2017, Mattar and Daw 2019, and Leibold 2020 specifically address context dependence. Accordingly, "A comprehensive model that can explain the formation of context-dependent hippocampal sequences of various lengths through remapping, while relying on a biologically plausible learning process,..." somewhat overstates the novelty of the current paper.

      Thank you for pointing this out and for suggesting relevant citations. We agree with the reviewer that inputs from MEC and LEC to the hippocampus constitute a fundamental mechanism underlying remapping. However, in our view, a key open question in the remapping field is how MEC and LEC estimate the current context and convey this information to the hippocampus in a manner that supports goal-directed behavior. While previous studies have addressed remapping at the representational level and the hippocampal sequence at planning, the overall relationship between remapping, reinforcement learning, and planning has not yet been explained within a single unified model. In this work, we propose a simple and biologically plausible model that integrates an Amari–Hopfield network for context selection with hippocampal sequences, providing an account of coordination under goal-directed behavior. To more accurately position the novelty of our contribution, we have revised the manuscript as follows.

      “While previous works have explored hippocampal sequential activity for planning (Jensen et al., 2024; Mattar and Daw, 2018; Pettersen et al., 2024; Stachenfeld et al., 2017) and hippocampal remapping for contextual inference (Low et al., 2023) separately, they have yet to elucidate how these two aspects jointly enable flexible behavior. A simple biologically plausible model-based reinforcement learning model that uses the Amari-Hopfield model for context selection and hippocampal sequences of various lengths as a state-transition model for long-horizon planning, relying on remapping driven by prediction errors to form state representation, would thus provide valuable insights into the neural mechanisms underpinning context-dependent flexible behavior.”

      (4) Please properly introduce nomenclature "C2α, C2β, S2,...." S is sometimes used for stimulus, sometimes for location (state?), or even action?

      Thank you for pointing it out. We acknowledge that the annotation of Cn (e.g., C1, C2…) was not straightforward. Therefore, we changed the annotation to Xn (e.g., X1, X2, …) in order to indicate the contextual state of X.

      We define Sn (e.g., S1, S2…) as the external input given by the environment and represented in stim. domain of X, while Xn (e.g., X1, X2…) is the subjective contextual state generated by the agent and represented in the context domain of X. As a reference, we added the neural representation of X in Figure 2D and added the following text below.

      “The neural activity of X at each contextual state is shown in Figure 2D, where the environmental states (e.g., S1, S2…) are represented in the stimulus domain, and the contextual states (e.g., X1, X2α…) are represented in the context domain.”

      (5) "Our model replicates this result by blocking the synaptic transmission from most of the neurons in the context domain of X to H (Figure 3F).". Does this mean the X module is hypothesized to be in the EC?

      Thank you for the thoughtful question. In our model, the X module is intended as a functional abstraction that combines the roles of several brain regions known to contribute to contextual representation, including the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and the entorhinal cortex (EC). Although X is not necessarily meant to correspond to a single anatomical region, we consider it likely that the contextual information represented in X would reach the hippocampus (H) (CA3 and CA1) primarily through the EC. Thus, the experimental manipulation shown in Figure 3F—suppression of medial EC axon at the hippocampus—is interpreted in our framework as weakening the input from X to H.

      We added the following texts in the Discussion section.

      “We speculate that Context selector is implemented across multiple brain regions with varying degrees of resolution, including a part of the entorhinal cortex and prefrontal cortex.”

      “Our model posits that the Sequence Composer corresponds to computations within the hippocampus. As a biologically plausible projection, we consider the CA3–CA1 circuit, where contextual inputs from regions such as the PFC and EC provide the current contextual state to CA3, enabling the recurrent CA3–CA1 architecture to generate predictions of the next contextual state.”

      (6) Discussion "model-based reinforcement learning": Please detail where the model is here. In my understanding, the naive agent does not have a model (this would be model-free then?).

      Thank you for asking.

      Unlike model-free reinforcement learning, where each action is evaluated step by step, we use hippocampal sequences for multiple-step prediction and action planning. This is the “model” in our research. As you mentioned, initially, animals do not have a “model”, but Sequence composer gradually chunks the episodic segments to compose a longer sequence.

      (7) "...can change the attractor dynamics in the hippocampus (34)": What is (34)? I also would doubt that one can make such absolute statements about the human hippocampus.

      Thank you for pointing out the missing citation. We corrected it accordingly.

      Rolls E. 2021. Attractor cortical neurodynamics, schizophrenia, and depression. Transl Psychiatry 11. doi:10.1038/s41398-021-01333-7

      (8) "To the best of our knowledge, this is the first model that describes the formation of contextdependent hippocampal activity through remapping and its contribution to flexible behavior." See "Several theoretical models...".

      Thank you for pointing this out. We admit that it was an overstatement. We corrected it accordingly.

      “To the best of our knowledge, this is the first model that uses associative memory for describing the formation and switching of context-dependent hippocampal activity through remapping and its contribution to flexible behavior.”

      (9) "We speculate that the context-selection module is implemented across multiple brain regions..." How would an attractor network be implemented over "multiple brain regions"?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important conceptual question. Context information in realistic environments is likely to have a hierarchical structure. We therefore speculate that multiple brain regions may jointly support context selection by maintaining different levels or components of this hierarchy. In particular, the prefrontal cortex (PFC), medial entorhinal cortex (MEC), and lateral entorhinal cortex (LEC) have all been implicated in representing contextual or task-state information at different levels of abstraction. These regions are known to exhibit attractor-like dynamics and to provide inputs to the hippocampus. Thus, an attractor network spanning multiple regions could arise, with different areas stabilizing distinct components of the contextual representation, depending on the timescale of memory, task demands, or sensory features.

      We used the Amari–Hopfield network as a functional abstraction to explain such multi-regional interactions underlying context representation, rather than to provide a one-to-one mapping onto a specific brain region. How region-specific attractor dynamics jointly contribute to maintaining global contextual information and enabling context switches in response to prediction errors remains an important direction for future research.

      Methods:

      (10) "... agents move through discrete environmental states characterized by distinct external stimuli.": How is this exactly implemented? What is the neural representation of these states, xi? What is the difference to a "landmark"?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful question regarding the implementation and neural representation of environmental states. In our model, each environmental state is represented as a binary stimulus pattern provided to the stimulus-domain neurons in Context Selector. Specifically, for each state, we constructed a pattern in which half of the neurons are set to 1 and the other half to 0. We chose this design because, in the Amari–Hopfield model, memory performance is maximized when stored patterns contain approximately equal proportions of 0 and 1. For clarity, we have added an illustration of these stimulus patterns in the revised Figure 2D.

      Regarding the reviewer’s question about landmarks: in our framework, a landmark denotes an environmental state for which the contextual state is uniquely determined, regardless of the preceding transition history. For simplicity in this study, we designated the initial environmental state in each task (S0 or S1) as the landmark. Importantly, in our implementation, landmarks do not differ from other states in terms of their stimulus pattern; their special role arises solely from the task structure, not from additional sensory properties.

      In real environments, what constitutes a landmark likely varies depending on stimulus saliency and the agent’s prior experience. Determining how landmarks should be optimally defined or learned is an interesting direction for future work.

      (11) How are different contexts represented for the same stimulus xi^stim?

      We added an example of neural activity in X in Figure 2D, illustrating the distinction between the stimulus domain and the context domain. While the activity in the stimulus domain depends on the external stimulus, the contextual domain consists of uncorrelated random neural states. We exploit a key property of the Amari–Hopfield network to associate each contextual state with a given external stimulus.

      (12) "...and its stimulus domain ??stim becomes identical to ??xistim ." Does that mean every stimulus is an attractor in the context net? How can that work with only 1200 neurons? Is that realistic for real-life environments? Neuron numbers would need to increase dramatically.

      As you mentioned, we assigned each stimulus to a corresponding attractor in the Context selector (X). An Amari–Hopfield network with 1,200 neurons can store approximately 10–20 attractors, which is sufficient to solve the tasks considered in this study. We adopted the Amari–Hopfield network for its simplicity and conceptual clarity; however, in biological neural systems, it is not necessary to construct such rigid attractors for every stimulus. For example, modality-specific neural projections exist in the brain and are sometimes sufficient to form loose attractor states across different stimuli. In addition, the prefrontal cortex is known to support working memory, which may also serve as a form of contextual representation incorporating recent history. Thus, we propose that multiple brain regions cooperate to implement the Context selector.

      (13) How are WHX and WHH initialized?

      Thank you for pointing this out.

      We set the initial condition of all W to 0. We added the following text in the Method section.

      “Note that the initial synaptic weights of 𝑊<sup>𝐻𝑋</sup> and 𝑊<sup>𝑋𝐻</sup> are all 0.”

      (14) It is unclear why the hippocampus separates into state and transition neurons. Why cannot one pattern serve both purposes?

      Thank you for asking about this important point.

      The reason why we prepare two kinds of hippocampal neurons is that state-coding neurons represent the current contextual state, and transition-coding neurons predict the following contextual state under the current contextual state. These two separations enable it to predict multiple scenarios under the current contextual state and to choose a sequence most suitable in the environment.

      We rewrote the following sentences in the manuscript.

      In result section,

      “In Sequence composer, there exist two types of neurons: state-coding neurons, which represent each contextual state, and transition-coding neurons, which encode transitions to successive contextual states given the contextual state indicated by the state-coding neurons”

      In Method section,

      “The state-coding neurons receive input from 𝑋 and represent the current contextual state, while the transition-coding neurons send output to 𝑋 and predict the next contextual state after an action i.e., T(𝑋<sub>𝑘+1</sub>|𝑋<sub>𝑘</sub>,𝑎<sub>𝑘,𝑘+1</sub>).”

      (15) "the agents execute actions according to this sequence." How are the actions defined? Are they part of the state?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In our model, an action is defined as the transition from a given environmental state to the next environmental state. To avoid ambiguity, we have added a formal mathematical definition of actions for each task in the revised manuscript. In our framework, the transition-coding neurons in Sequence Composer (H) predict the upcoming environmental state, and thus the hippocampal sequence intrinsically contains the representation of an action. Consequently, the sequence generated before actions functions as the agent’s internal action planning process.

      (16) "Because the input source for the state-coding neuron and the transition coding neuron differ (the former is selected from ??, while the latter is selected from ??), the same hippocampal neuron could occasionally be used for both state-coding and transition-coding across different contextual states. This is evident when an excessive number of contextual states are prepared, especially in the SZ condition. This phenomenon degrades state estimation at X (eq.3)." I have no idea what you want to convey here, .... and how is state estimation related to Equation 3?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s feedback and agree that our original explanation was unclear. Our intention was to clarify why context estimation deteriorates specifically in the SZ condition.

      In our model, state-coding neurons in the hippocampus represent the current contextual state, and transition-coding neurons predict the next contextual state given the current contextual state. Under normal conditions, these two sets of neurons remain sufficiently distinct, allowing accurate prediction of the upcoming contextual state, which is conveyed to X. However, when an excessively large number of contextual states are stored in the SZ condition, representations in the hippocampus begin to overlap. As a result, some hippocampal neurons are inadvertently recruited for both state-coding and transition-coding across different contextual states. This overlap disrupts the H’s ability to accurately predict the next contextual state.

      This degraded prediction directly affects the state-estimation process in X (Eq.3), because Eq.3 relies on receiving an accurate predicted next state from H. When this signal becomes ambiguous, X may converge to an incorrect contextual state, potentially mimicking hallucination-like inference errors.

      We have rewritten the relevant passage in the manuscript to clarify this mechanism as follows.

      “When the number of contextual states increases - particularly in the SZ condition - representational overlap arises between hippocampal state-coding and transition-coding neurons.

      This overlap makes the prediction of the next contextual state by the transition-coding neurons unreliable. The degraded prediction from H, in turn, corrupts the initial condition for context selection in X (Eq. 3), leading to hallucination-like behavior.”

      (17) The figures hardly show simulated activity. Consider displaying more neuronal simulations to help the reader grasp the workings of the model.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We indicated the neural activity of X and H in Figures 2D and 2E, respectively, to show the overview of our model.

      (18) Figure 5: What is the "Hopfield count"?

      Thank you for pointing this out. The definition of the Hopfield count was ambiguous. We added an explicit explanation of “context selection” and its possible outcomes (correct association, hallucination-like, and default contexts) in Fig. S1. To clarify our claim, we replaced the countbased measure with the probability of selecting hallucination-like and default contexts during context selection. Accordingly, we removed the term “Hopfield count” and revised the caption of Figure 5 as follows.

      “The result of context selection (see Figure S1). The probability of wrong stimulus reconstruction (hallucination-like effects) is plotted in red, and the probability of default context usage due to failures in context reconstruction (see Materials and Methods) is plotted in blue.”

      (19) Figure 6: Consider moving this upfront.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We moved Fig.6 to Fig.S1 and introduced it earlier in the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I was a bit confused about the implementation, which may not be autonomous, meaning there are numerous stages that require intervention from outside the X-H network (see Figure 6). It seems that the X network might wait to converge before providing input to H, rather than having the entire network evolve in parallel. There are also aspects to the implementation that seem rather ad hocsuch as the "no-good indicator".

      Thank you for the thoughtful comments. We would like to clarify several points regarding the implementation and its biological motivation.

      First, regarding the concern that the X–H interaction may not be fully autonomous:

      In our framework, the convergence time of the X module under external sensory input is assumed to be on the order of several hundred milliseconds, consistent with the timescale of stimulus-evoked cortical population dynamics observed in biological systems. Especially when hippocampal input is present, X does not need to explore the full attractor landscape. Instead, it quickly settles into an attractor located near the hippocampal cue, which substantially shortens the convergence time.

      Second, although our current implementation proceeds in an algorithmically sequential manner for clarity, we do not intend to imply that the brain performs these steps sequentially. Biologically, the states of X and H are expected to co-evolve and mutually constrain each other through recurrent interactions. The sequential algorithm in the model is therefore a practical choice for implementation, not a theoretical claim about strict temporal ordering in the neural system.

      Finally, the “no-good indicator” is introduced to suppress hippocampal sequences transiently and thereby accelerate switching behavior. Our no-good indicator is most consistent with the biological findings on D2-expressing neurons in the hippocampus. We added the following text below.

      About the no-good indicator

      “The no-good indicator is inspired by recent findings in the ventral hippocampus, where dopamine D2-expressing neurons of the ventral subiculum selectively promote exploration under anxiogenic contexts (Godino et al., 2025)”

      Besides the hippocampus, similar mechanisms—temporary suppression of recently visited or lowvalue attractor states—have been proposed in biological decision-making and working-memory literature, providing conceptual support for the no-good indicator in our model.

      After exposure to a new context, a new memory/context is stored in the X network. As the storage of a new memory requires synaptic plasticity, this step would presumably take a significant amount of time in an animal.

      Thank you for raising this important point. We agree that the formation of a new memory or context requires synaptic changes, and it is well established that processes such as tagging during wakefulness and consolidation during sleep take considerable time. However, once a context has been learned, switching between contexts can be achieved just by moving between attractors in the X network. This mechanism allows for rapid, context-dependent behavior without requiring new synaptic modifications each time. Our study focuses on this aspect of fast context-dependent switching rather than the initial memory formation.

      My understanding is that the Amari-Hopfield network should be evolving in continuous time and not be binary. But there were no time constants mentioned, and the equations were not provided, and it seems that the elements of X were binary units, rather than analog. This should be clarified.

      Thank you for the comment.

      Although there are models with continuous firing rates and continuous time (Ramsauer et al., 2021), the original Amari-Hopfield model uses binary neurons operating in discrete time steps. As we answered the comments (5) and (6) from Reviewer 1, we considered only a discretely timestepped environment for which the timescale is arbitrary. At each environmental state where the current contextual state is selected, it typically takes about ten iterations for the conversion of the Amari-Hopfield network.

      In the text, we added the following text.

      “For simplicity, the environment is defined in discrete time, and agents move through environmental states characterized by distinct external stimuli.”

      Figure 3 is aimed at replicating the lap cell finding of Sun et al, 2020. In panel E, a comparison is made between the data and the model. Are the cells in the model the entire population of H neurons (state and transition), or just a subset? Does the absence of the "ghosts" (the weaker off diagonal responses seen in the experimental data) imply that the network is not encoding that it is in the same location, but a different lap? Why is there not any true sequentiality (i.e., why do all H units go on at once)?

      Thank you for your insightful comments. Throughout this study, we used 300 neurons for the Sequence composer (H); however, for simplicity, we constrained the model such that only a single H neuron was active at each time point. As a result, most other neurons remained silent. Accordingly, in Fig. 3E, we display only neurons with firing activity, and silent neurons are not shown.

      As you correctly inferred, hippocampal neurons in our model encode lap identity rather than the same physical location across laps. This design choice reflects our focus on hippocampal neurons representing contextual states, rather than place-coding neurons, as only the former contributes directly to contextual behavior in our framework. As shown in Fig. 3E, hippocampal neurons exhibit clear sequential activity with “episode-like” representations corresponding to individual laps. Nevertheless, we believe that incorporating a mixture of context-coding neurons and place-coding neurons is an important direction for future work, as illustrated in Fig. S3.

      We revised the caption of Fig. 3E as follows.

      “E, The comparison of (Left) lap cells in the hippocampus in the 4-lap task (Sun et al., 2020) and (Right) our results of active neurons in the H module.”

      Typo "but also makeS predictions".

      Thank you for pointing this out. We revised it correctly.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This is a potentially valuable modeling study on sequence generation in the hippocampus in a variety of behavioral contexts. While the scope of the model is ambitious, its presentation is incomplete and would benefit from substantially more methodological clarity and better biological justification. The work will interest the broad community of researchers studying cortical-hippocampal interactions and sequences.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Ito and Toyozumi proposes a new model for biologically plausible learning of context-dependent sequence generation, which aims to overcome the predefined contextual time horizon of previous proposals. The model includes two interacting models: an Amari-Hopfield network that infers context based on sensory cues, with new contexts stored whenever sensory predictions (generated by a second hippocampal module) deviate substantially from actual sensory experience, which then leads to hippocampal remapping. The hippocampal predictions themselves are context-dependent and sequential, relying on two functionally distinct neural subpopulations. On top of this state representation, a simple Rescola-Wagner-type rule is used to generate predictions for expected reward and to guide actions. A collection of different Hebbian learning rules at different synaptic subsets of this circuit (some reward-modulated, some purely associative, with occasional additional homeostatic competitive heterosynaptic plasticity) enables this circuit to learn state representations in a set of simple tasks known to elicit context-dependent effects.

      Strengths:

      The idea of developing a circuit-level model of model-based reinforcement learning, even if only for simple scenarios, is definitely of interest to the community. The model is novel and aims to explain a range of context-dependent effects in the remapping of hippocampal activity.

      Weaknesses:

      The link to model-based RL is formally imprecise, and the circuit-level description of the process is too algorithmic (and sometimes discrepant with known properties of hippocampus responses), so the model ends up falling in between in a way that does not fully satisfy either the computational or the biological promise. Some of the problems stem from the lack of detail and biological justification in the writing, but the loose link to biology is likely not fully addressable within the scope of the current results. The attempt at linking poor functioning of the context circuit to disease is particularly tenuous.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Ito and Toyoizumi present a computational model of context-dependent action selection. They propose a "hippocampus" network that learns sequences based on which the agent chooses actions. The hippocampus network receives both stimulus and context information from an attractor network that learns new contexts based on experience. The model is consistent with a variety of experiments, both from the rodent and the human literature, such as splitter cells, lap cells, and the dependence of sequence expression on behavioral statistics. Moreover, the authors suggest that psychiatric disorders can be interpreted in terms of over-/under-representation of context information.

      Strengths:

      This ambitious work links diverse physiological and behavioral findings into a self-organizing neural network framework. All functional aspects of the network arise from plastic synaptic connections: Sequences, contexts, and action selection. The model also nicely links ideas from reinforcement learning to neuronally interpretable mechanisms, e.g., learning a value function from hippocampal activity.

      Weaknesses:

      The presentation, particularly of the methodological aspects, needs to be majorly improved. Judgment of generality and plausibility of the results is hampered, but is essential, particularly for the conclusions related to psychiatric disorders. In its present form, it is unclear whether the claims and conclusions made are justified. Also, the lack of clarity strongly reduces the impact of the work in the larger field.

      More specifically:

      (1) The methods section is impenetrable. The specific adaptations of the model to the individual use cases of the model, as well as the posthoc analyses of the simulations, did not become clear. Important concepts are only defined in passing and used before they are introduced. The authors may consider a more rigorous mathematical reporting style. They also may consider making the methods part self-contained and moving it in front of the results part.

      (2) The description of results in the main text remains on a very abstract level. The authors may consider showing more simulated neural activity. It remains vague how the different stimuli and contexts are represented in the network. Particularly, the simulations and related statistical analyses underlying the paradigms in Figure 4 are incompletely described.

      (3) The literature review can be improved (laid out in the specific recommendations).

      (4) Given the large range of experimental phenomenology addressed by the manuscript, it would be helpful to add a Discussion paragraph on how much the results from mice and humans can be integrated, particularly regarding the nature of the context selection network.

      (5) As a minor point, the hippocampus is pretty much treated as a premotor network. Also, a Discussion paragraph would be helpful.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper develops a model to account for flexible and context-dependent behaviors, such as where the same input must generate different responses or representations depending on context. The approach is anchored in the hippocampal place cell literature. The model consists of a module X, which represents context, and a module H (hippocampus), which generates "sequences". X is a binary attractor RNN, and H appears to be a discrete binary network, which is called recurrent but seems to operate primarily in a feedforward mode. H has two types of units (those that are directly activated by context, and transition/sequence units). An input from X drives a winner-take-all activation of a single unit H_context unit, which can trigger a sequence in the H_transition units. When a new/unpredicted context arises, a new stable context in X is generated, which in turn can trigger a new sequence in H. The authors use this model to account for some experimental findings, and on a more speculative note, propose to capture key aspects of contextual processing associated with schizophrenia and autism.

      Strengths:

      Context-dependency is an important problem. And for this reason, there are many papers that address context-dependency - some of this work is cited. To the best of my knowledge, the approach of using an attractor network to represent and detect changes in context is novel and potentially valuable.

      Weaknesses:

      The paper would be stronger, however, if it were implemented in a more biologically plausible manner - e.g., in continuous rather than discrete time. Additionally, not enough information is provided to properly evaluate the paper, and most of the time, the network is treated as a black box, and we are not shown how the computations are actually being performed.

    5. Author Response:

      We appreciate the reviewers’ thoughtful assessments and constructive feedback on our manuscript. The central goal of our study was to propose a simple and biologically inspired model-based reinforcement learning (MBRL) framework that draws on mechanisms observed in episodic memory systems. Unlike model-free approaches that require processing at each state transition, our model uses sequential activity (= transition model) to predict environmental changes in the long term by leveraging episode-like representations.

      While many prior studies have focused on optimizing task performance in MBRL, our primary aim is to explore how flexible, context-dependent behavior—reminiscent of that observed in biological systems—can be instantiated using simple, neurally plausible mechanisms. In particular, we emphasize the use of an Amari-Hopfield network for the context selection module. This network, governed by Hebbian learning, forms attractors that can correct for sensory noise and facilitate associative recall, allowing dynamic separation of prediction errors due to sensory noise versus those due to contextual mismatches. However, we acknowledge that our explanation of these mechanisms, especially in relation to sensory noise, was not sufficiently developed in the current manuscript. We plan to revise the text to clarify this limitation and to expand on the implications of these mechanisms in the context of psychiatric disorder-like behaviors, as illustrated in Figure 5. Several reviewers raised concerns about the clarity of our model. Our implementation is intentionally algorithmic rather than formal, designed to provide an accessible proof-of-concept model. We will revise the manuscript to better describe the core logic of the model—namely, the bidirectional interaction between the Hopfield network (X) and the hippocampal sequence module (H), where X sends the information on estimated current context to H, and H returns a future prediction based on the episode to X. This interaction forms a loop enabling the current context estimation and its reselection.

      The key advantage of this architecture is its ability to flexibly adjust the temporal span of episodes used for inference and control, providing a potential solution to the challenge of credit assignment over variable time scales in MBRL. Because our model forms and stores the variable length of episodes depending on the context, it can handle both short-horizon and long-horizon tasks simultaneously. Moreover, because each episode is organized by context, reselecting contexts enables rapid switching between these variable timescales. This flexibility addresses a challenge in MBRL—the assignment of credit across variable time scales—without requiring explicit optimization. To better illustrate this important feature, we plan to include additional experiments in the revised manuscript that demonstrate how context-dependent modulation of episode length enhances behavioral flexibility and task performance.

      Finally, we will address the comments on the presentation and the biological grounding of our model. To improve clarity and biological relevance, we will revise the Methods section to explicitly describe how the model is grounded in mechanisms observed in real neural systems. Also, we will clarify which parts of our figures represent computational results versus schematic illustrations and more clearly explain how each model component relates to known neural mechanisms. These revisions aim to improve both clarity and accessibility for a broad audience, while reinforcing the biological relevance of our approach.

      We thank the reviewers again for their insightful comments, which will help us substantially improve the manuscript. We look forward to submitting a revised version that more clearly conveys the contributions and implications of our work.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important paper presents a rigorous and comprehensive deep mutational analysis of the kinase TYK2, revealing how single amino acid substitutions influence protein abundance, signaling activity, and responses to pharmacological inhibitors. By combining high‑quality experimental design with dose‑response signaling assays and multiple inhibitor conditions, the authors generate a robust dataset that identifies variants across all domains of TYK2, including clusters at functionally critical sites and protein-protein interfaces. The study highlights mutations that drive drug resistance or potentiation and shows that reduced TYK2 abundance aligns with protective autoimmune‑associated variants, underscoring the therapeutic relevance of modulating TYK2 stability. Overall, the work provides compelling insights with clear implications for biochemistry, immunology, clinical genetics, and drug discovery.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this compelling study, Howard et al. use deep mutational scanning to probe essentially all possible single amino acid substitutions in the TYK2 tyrosine kinase, and identify those that modulate signaling function and protein abundance. The methodological approach is elegant and thorough, and the results identify numerous examples of amino acid substitutions that have been previously reported to modulate TYK2 function, validating the approach.

      Substitutions that are LOF with respect to IFN-a signaling but not protein abundance are particularly interesting and are widely dispersed across the protein. They include known functionally critical sites such as the active site and activation loop of the kinase domain, as well as the allosteric site within the regulatory pseudokinase domain, but also hundreds of other additional sites. The approach is then used to study the effects of substitutions on kinase inhibition using several JAK family inhibitors that target the pseudokinase domain. By assessing variant effects at both high and low drug concentrations, they are able to identify variants that mediate resistance or conversely potentiate inhibition, respectively. These map to distinct sites on the pseudokinase domain. Finally, the authors show that several TYK2 variants, most notably the P1104A substitution, previously shown to protect against autoimmune disease, correspond to substitutions that reduce protein abundance in their screen. Combining their DMS data with autoimmune phenotype and TYK2 genotype data uncovered a general dose relationship between autoimmunity and TYK2 abundance, and the authors propose that this might justify targeting TYK2 protein levels with degraders.

      Strengths:

      This is a nicely executed, well-written study with good figures and a clear presentation.

      Weaknesses:

      The only substantial critique I have is that while the paper makes a compelling case for the validity and power of the approach, the authors could perhaps go further in their interpretation of their data, particularly with regards to identifying functionally important sites and connecting them to putative allosteric sites and functionally relevant protein-protein interfaces in the context of what is known about JAK family kinase structure and function. An attempt is made to interpret the data in light of a composite structural model of full-length TYK2 engaged with the IFNAR1 receptor (Figure 2C), but much more could be said about this. Below, I list several examples where additional insight might be gleaned.

      (1) The discussion of gain-of-function variants is limited. Given that tight regulation is a general theme of kinase signaling and gain-of-function mutations are a common disease mechanism, these mutations could be particularly interesting. Could the authors comment on patterns of gain versus loss? Are there gain-of-function signaling variants that work in a IFN-a dose dependent versus independent manner?

      (2) The discussion of the signaling-specific variants (LOF in signaling but not abundance) is interesting but could be expanded. Can the authors comment on which regions of the pseudokinase/kinase interface, for instance, are affected, since this allosteric communication is a critical and unique aspect of JAK family protein function? Can something be said about what the 6 activation loop substitutions are doing?

      (3) The cytokine signaling screen was performed at several different levels of IFN-α cytokine stimulation. The authors state that these data were used to identify quantitative variant effects (p7), but the cytokine dose response data are not widely discussed in the manuscript. Is it not possible that valuable information about the strength of substitution effects could be gleaned from this? One might expect that simple loss of function mutants that, e.g. completely destroy catalytic activity, will be LOF at all levels of stimulation, whereas mutations that have more nuanced "tuning" or allosteric effects on signaling might display LOF at low cytokine stimulation levels but be restored at high stimulation levels. Such information could be of potential functional importance and interest. Could the authors comment on this?

      (4) In general, the variant data could be interpreted more specifically in light of the available detailed structural information about TYK2 and JAK kinases generally. For instance, could the resistance versus potentiation variants be interpreted in this context to hypothesize what they might be doing?

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Howard et al. describe a set of deep mutational scanning (DMS) experiments applied to TYK2, which is a drug target implicated in autoimmune disease. By assaying protein abundance (stability) effects as well as immune signaling, the authors are able to disentangle variant effects that may be directly involved in protein activity (and therefore potentially druggable) from variant effects that are due to loss of protein or general structural instability. By performing these assays under multiple conditions, including the presence of various concentrations of small molecules, they develop a clear picture of which sites in TYK2 may be most relevant for intervention or targeting. Overall, the work represents a very compelling example of DMS for understanding protein biology and candidate drug mechanisms.

      The work is very thorough, with multiple DMS assays described and compared/contrasted. This greatly enhances the impact and interpretability of any individual assay performed.

      The authors have made improvements to the state of the art in terms of wet-lab assay design as well as the analysis of FACS-based deep mutational scans.

      The potential mechanism of loss of protein abundance in TYK2 being protective for autoimmune disease is clear, but the estimates of the effect size in more physiologically relevant settings vary quite a bit and might be quite small. Are there examples that could be cited of other similar disease mechanisms where a 10% loss in abundance is associated with a clinical phenotype?

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the paper "Deep mutational scanning reveals pharmacologically relevant insights into TYK2 signaling and disease", the authors perform a comprehensive deep mutational scan of the kinase TYK2, a protein of pharmacological interest due to its central role in multiple immune-related phenotypes. The study assesses two key functional phenotypes: protein abundance and IFN-α-dependent signaling. The signaling assays were conducted across a dose-response range under various inhibitor conditions, allowing for an in-depth characterization of TYK2 activity and regulation. Both the experimental design and data analysis were executed with rigor and transparency, yielding a dataset that appears highly reliable. The authors provide strong evidence and a scientifically grounded interpretation of their results.

      The paper presents the results of a deep mutational scan based on two assays: an IFN-α-stimulated signaling assay and a protein abundance assay. These measurements are further supported by variant classifications from AlphaMissense and ClinVar, providing a framework for functional interpretation. Building on these data, the authors propose four potential pharmacological applications of their screening system at the end of the first results section.

      First, they demonstrate that the combined analysis of abundance and IFN-α signaling identifies potential allosteric sites, focusing on variants with normal protein stability but reduced signaling activity. Through this approach, they detect two previously uncharacterized allosteric regions (Results Section 2).

      Second, they explore how the screen can be used to predict variant-specific drug responses or resistance mechanisms (Results Section 3). This is achieved through assays involving two different inhibitors, which reveal both resistance- and potentiation-associated variants.

      Third, they assess the relative functional consequences of ligand and inhibitor dosing by performing IFN-α and inhibitor dose-response experiments (1, 10, and 100 U/mL IFN-α; IC99 and IC75 inhibitor concentrations; Results Section 3).

      Finally, the authors investigate how specific human variants, such as P1104A and I684S, may inform therapeutic modality selection (Results Section 4). Although these variants exhibit no detectable effect on IFN-α signaling within this experimental system, they substantially impact protein abundance. By integrating data from the UK Biobank, the authors further demonstrate that protective effects against autoimmune disease are associated with altered protein abundance rather than differences in IFN-α signaling, highlighting the distinct mechanistic basis of TYK2's clinical relevance.

      Strengths:

      Overall, we found this paper rigorous, well-written, and easy to follow. As such, we think this is an exceptional example of a deep mutational scanning manuscript, and this dataset will be invaluable to the field. We particularly appreciate that the authors could explore sensitivity to inhibitor concentration across multiple doses of the inhibitor.

      Weaknesses:

      Despite the authors' rigorous experimentation and thoughtful interpretation, the study leaves several important mechanistic questions unresolved, as is common in any study. While the data provide clear functional patterns, the underlying biophysical and biochemical explanations remain insufficiently explored. For instance, in point 1, the identification of two novel allosteric sites is intriguing, yet the paper does not elaborate on the structural basis or mechanistic rationale for their regulatory effects. In point 2, resistance and potentiation variants are described for two distinct inhibitors, but it remains unclear why certain variants respond specifically to one compound and not the other. In point 3, higher inhibitor concentrations appear to diminish allosteric interactions, though the reasons why some sites are affected while others are not are left unexplained. Finally, in point 4, the observation that protein abundance, but not IFN-α signaling, correlates with autoimmune protection is compelling but mechanistically ambiguous. These gaps do not detract from the technical excellence of the work; rather, they highlight opportunities for future studies to clarify the molecular and pharmacological mechanisms underlying TYK2 regulation and to deepen the translational insights drawn from this comprehensive mutational scan. We hope that the authors could provide more direction and mechanistic context in the discussion section to guide readers toward these next steps.

    5. Author response:

      We thank the reviewers for their excellent and thoughtful comments and suggestions, along with their strong support of the work. We agree with the general feedback that there is opportunity for further mechanistic dissection of the data from a variety of interesting angles. This was a fascinating project to work on because of all of the possible directions, and we attempted to highlight a diversity of compelling findings. We wish we had time to devote to answering more of the open mechanistic questions, but, given competing priorities, we are unfortunately unable to do them justice at this time. At the suggestion of a reviewer, we have made results available through MaveDB (accession numbers urn:mavedb:00001270-a and urn:mavedb:00001271-a) as a way to empower others to explore more.

    1. eLife Assessment

      The authors establish solid theoretical principles for designing brain perturbations under the assumption that brain activity evolves under a linear model. By prioritizing low-variance components, resonant frequencies, and hub nodes, this framework provides an important foundation for optimizing information gain, neural state classification, and the control of neural dynamics. However, the lack of investigation of model mismatch makes the study incomplete.

    2. Joint Public Review:

      Summary:

      Inferring so-called "functional connectivity" between neurons or groups of neurons is important both for validating models and for inferring brain state. Under the assumption that brain dynamics is linear, the authors show that the error in estimating functional connectivity depends only on the eigenvalues of the covariance matrix of the observed data, and it is the small eigenvalues -corresponding to directions in which the variance of the brain activity is low - that lead to large estimation errors. Based on this, the authors show that to achieve low estimation error, it's important to excite the resonant frequencies and perturb well-connected hubs. The authors propose a practical iterative approach to estimate the functional connectivity and demonstrate faster convergence to the optimal estimate compared to passive observation.

      Strengths:

      The main contribution of the study is the derivation of an explicit expression for the error in functional connectivity that depends only on the covariance matrix of the observed data. If valid, this result can have a profound impact on the field. The study also motivates the current shift to closed-loop experiments by demonstrating the effectiveness of active learning in the system using perturbation, in comparison to passive estimation from resting-state activity. Finally, the relative simplicity of the model makes its practical applications straightforward, as the authors illustrate in the context of brain state classification and neural control.

      Weaknesses:

      The derivation of the main error term misses some important steps, which complicates peer review at this stage. In particular, factorisation of the covariance into noise and the inverse of the observation covariance matrix needs a more thorough justification. The cited sources do not contain the derivation for a noise term with full covariance, which is essential for deriving this error term.

      The practical recommendation at the end of the paper also requires clearer guidance on how the design perturbations are constructed, and how many times and for how long the system is stimulated in each iteration of the experiment.

      Finally, there is no analysis of model mis-specification. In particular, the true dynamics are unlikely to be linear; the noise is unlikely to be either Gaussian or uncorrelated across time; and the B matrix is unlikely to be known perfectly. We're not suggesting that the authors consider a more complex model, but it's important to know how sensitive their method is to model mismatch. If nothing can be done analytically, then simulations would at least provide some kind of guide.

    3. Author response:

      We thank the editors and reviewers for their careful reading of our manuscript and for their insightful comments. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify several aspects of the derivations and experimental design, and we will revise the manuscript accordingly. Below we provide responses to the major weaknesses raised by the reviewers.

      The derivation of the main error term misses some important steps, which complicates peer review at this stage. In particular, factorisation of the covariance into noise and the inverse of the observation covariance matrix needs a more thorough justification. The cited sources do not contain the derivation for a noise term with full covariance, which is essential for deriving this error term.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We agree that the derivation of the main error term should be presented more explicitly to facilitate peer review. In the revised manuscript, we will explicitly cite the relevant equation numbers from the references to make each step of the argument easier to follow. We will also revise the text to more clearly discuss the assumption on the noise covariance matrix.

      The pratical recommendation at the end of the paper also requires clearer guidance on how the design perturbations are constructed, and how many times and for how long the system is stimulated in each iteration of the experiment.

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We agree that the practical implementation of the experimental design should be explained more clearly. In the revised manuscript, we will provide a more explicit description of how the input perturbations are constructed in each iteration. To more clearly explain how many times and for how long the system is stimulated, we will clarify the stopping criterion used in the iterative procedure and the time length of the external inputs. As shown in Eq. (8), the estimation error scales approximately as 1/T, so longer measurements improve accuracy. For clearer guidance, we will add additional explanations on the relation between the stimulation time and estimation accuracy, as well as on the role of iterative input design.

      Finally, there is no analysis of model mis-specification. In particular, the true dynamics are unlikely to be linear; the noise is unlikely to be either Gaussian or uncorrelated across time; and the B matrix is unlikely to be known perfectly. We're not suggesting that the authors consider a more complex model, but it's important to know how sensitive their method is to model mismatch. If nothing can be done analytically, then simulations would at least provide some kind of guide.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We agree that it is important to understand how sensitive the proposed method is to model mismatch. While our current theoretical analysis assumes linear dynamics with Gaussian noise for analytical tractability, real systems may deviate from these assumptions in several ways, including nonlinear dynamics, temporally correlated noise, or imperfect knowledge of the input matrix B. To address this concern, we will add simulation experiments to examine the robustness of our method under several types of model misspecification. These simulations will provide practical guidance on how deviations from the assumed model affect estimation performance. We will include these results and discuss their implications in the revised manuscript.

    1. eLife assessment

      This important study uses state-of-the-art, multi-region two-photon calcium imaging to characterize the statistics of functional connectivity between visual cortical neurons. Although alternative interpretations may partially account for the data, the study provides solid evidence that functionally distinct classes of neurons convey visual information via parallel channels within and across both primary and higher-order cortical areas.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Using multi-region two-photon calcium imaging, the manuscript meticulously explores the structure of noise correlations (NCs) across mouse visual cortex and uses this information to make inferences about the organization of communication channels between primary visual cortex (V1) and higher visual areas (HVAs). Using visual responses to grating stimuli, the manuscript identifies 6 tuning groups of visual cortex neurons, and finds that NCs are highest among neurons belonging to the same tuning group whether or not they are found in the same cortical area. The NCs depend on the similarity of tuning of the neurons (their signal correlations) but are preserved across different stimulus sets - noise correlations recorded using drifting gratings are highly correlated with those measured using naturalistic videos. Based on these findings, the manuscript concludes that populations of neurons with high NCs constitute discrete communication channels that convey visual signals within and across cortical areas.

      Strengths:

      Experiments and analyses are conducted to a high standard and the robustness of noise correlation measurements is carefully validated. To control for potential influences of behaviour-related top-down modulation of noise correlations, the manuscript uses measurements of pupil dynamics as a proxy for behavioural state and shows that this top-down modulation cannot explain the stability of noise correlations across stimuli.

      Weaknesses:

      The interpretation of noise correlation measurements as a proxy from network connectivity is fraught with challenges. While the data clearly indicate the existence of distributed functional ensembles, the notion of communication channels implies the existence of direct anatomical connections between them, which noise correlations cannot measure.

      The traditional view of noise correlations is that they reflect direct connectivity or shared inputs between neurons. While it is valid in a broad sense, noise correlations may reflect shared top-down input as well as local or feedforward connectivity. This is particularly important since mouse cortical neurons are strongly modulated by spontaneous behavior (e.g. Stringer et al, Science, 2019). Therefore, noise correlation between a pair of neurons may reflect whether they are similarly modulated by behavioral state and overt spontaneous behaviors. Consequently, noise correlation alone cannot determine whether neurons belong to discrete communication channels.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This groundbreaking study characterizes the structure of activity correlations over millimeter scale in the mouse cortex with the goal of identifying visual channels, specialized conduits of visual information that show preferential connectivity. Examining the statistical structure of visual activity of L2/3 neurons, the study finds pairs of neurons located near each other or across distances of hundreds of micrometers with significantly correlated activity in response to visual stimuli. These highly correlated pairs have closely related visual tuning sharing orientation and/or spatial and/or temporal preference as would be expected from dedicated visual channels with specific connectivity.

      Strengths:

      The study presents best-in-class mesoscopic-scale 2-photon recordings from neuronal populations in pairs of visual areas (V1-LM, V1-PM, V1-AL, V1-LI). The study employs diverse visual stimuli that capture some of the specialization and heterogeneity of neuronal tuning in mouse visual areas. The rigorous data quantification takes into consideration functional cell groups as well as other variables that influence trial-to-trial correlations (similarity of tuning, neuronal distance, receptive field overlap, behavioral state). The paper demonstrates the robustness of the activity clustering analysis and of the activity correlation measurements. The paper shows convincingly that the correlation structure observed with grating stimuli is present in the responses to naturalistic stimuli. A simple simulation is provided that suggest that recurrent connectivity is required for the stimulus invariance of the results. The paper is well written and conceptually clear. The figures are beautiful and clear. The arguments are well laid out and the claims appear in large part supported by the data and analysis results (but see weaknesses).

      Weaknesses:

      An inherent limitation of the approach is that it cannot reveal which anatomical connectivity patterns are responsible for observed network structure. A methodological issue that does not seem completely addressed is whether the calcium imaging measurements with their limited sensitivity amplify the apparent dependence of noise correlations on the similarity of tuning. Although the paper shows that noise correlation measurements are robust to changes in firing rates / missing spikes, the effects of receptive field tuning dissimilarity are not addressed directly. The calcium responses of mouse visual cortical neurons are sharply tuned. Neurons with dissimilar receptive fields may show too little overlap in their estimated firing rates to infer noise correlations, which could lead to underestimation of correlations across groups of dissimilar neurons.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Yu et al harness the capabilities of mesoscopic 2P imaging to record simultaneously from populations of neurons in several visual cortical areas and measure their correlated variability. They first divide neurons in 65 classes depending on their tuning to moving gratings. They found the pairs of neurons of the same tuning class show higher noise correlations (NCs) both within and across cortical areas. Based on these observations and a model they conclude that visual information is broadcast across areas through multiple, discrete channels with little mixing across them.<br /> NCs can reflect indirect or direct connectivity, or shared afferents between pairs of neurons, potentially providing insight on network organization. While NCs have been comprehensively studied in neurons pairs of the same area, the structure of these correlations across areas is much less known. Thus, the manuscripts present novel insights on the correlation structure of visual responses across multiple areas.

      Strengths:

      The measurements of shared variability across multiple areas are novel. The results are mostly well presented and many thorough controls for some metrics are included.

      Weaknesses:

      I have concerns that the observed large intra class/group NCs might not reflect connectivity but shared behaviorally driven multiplicative gain modulations of sensory evoked responses. In this case, the NC structure might not be due to the presence of discrete, multiple channels broadcasting visual information as concluded. I also find that the claim of multiple discrete broadcasting channels needs more support before discarding the alternative hypothesis that a continuum of tuning similarity explains the large NCs observed in groups of neurons.

      Specifically:

      Major concerns:

      (1) Multiplicative gain modulation underlying correlated noise between similarly tuned neurons

      (1a) The conclusion that visual information is broadcasted in discrete channels across visual areas relies on interpreting NC as reflecting, direct or indirect connectivity between pairs, or common inputs. However, a large fraction of the activity in the mouse visual system is known to reflect spontaneous and instructed movements, including locomotion and face movements, among others. Running activity and face movements are one of the largest contributors to visual cortex activity and exert a multiplicative gain on sensory evoked responses (Niell et al , Stringer et al, among others). Thus, trial-by-fluctuations of behavioral state would result in gain modulations that, due to their multiplicative nature, would result in more shared variability in cotuned neurons, as multiplication affects neurons that are responding to the stimulus over those that are not responding ( see Lin et al , Neuron 2015 for a similar point).

      In the new version of the manuscript, behavioral modulations are explicitly considered in Figure S8. New analyses show that most of the variance of the neuronal responses is driven by the stimulus, rather than by behavioural variable. However, they new analyses still do not address if the shared noise correlation in cotuned neurons is also independent of behavioral modulations .

      As behavioral modulations are not considered this confound affects the conclusions and the conclusion that activity in communicated unmixed across areas ( results in Figure 4), as it would result in larger NCs the more similar the tuning of the neurons is, independently of any connectivity feature. It seems that this alternative hypothesis can explain the results without the need of discrete broadcasting channels or any particular network architecture and should be addressed to support the main claims.

      (2) Discrete vs continuous communication channels<br /> (2a) One of the author's main claims is that the mouse cortical network consists of discrete communication channels, as stated in teh title of the paper. This discreteness is based on an unbiased clustering approach on the tuning of neurons, followed by a manual grouping into six categories with relation to the stimulus space. I believe there are several problems with this claim. First, this clustering approach is inherently trying to group neurons and discretise neural populations. To make the claim that there are 'discrete communication channels' the null hypothesis should be a continuous model. An explicit test in favor of a discrete model is lacking, i.e. are the results better explained using discrete groups vs. when considering only tuning similarity? Second, the fact that 65 classes are recovered (out of 72 conditions) and that manual clustering is necessary to arrive at the six categories is far from convincing that we need to think about categorically different subsets of neurons. That we should think of discrete communication channels is especially surprising in this context as the relevant stimulus parameter axes seem inherently continuous: spatial and temporal frequency. It is hard to motivate the biological need for a discretely organized cortical network to process these continuous input spaces.

      Finally, as stated in point 1, the larger NCs observed within groups than across groups might be due to the multiplicative gain of state modulations, due to the larger tuning similarity of the neurons within a class or group.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      General Response

      We are grateful for the constructive comments from reviewers and the editor.

      The main point converged on a potential alternative interpretation that top-down modulation to the visual cortex may be contributing to the NC connectivity we observed. For this revision, we address that point with new analysis in Fig. S8 and Fig. 6. These results indicate that top-down modulation does not account for the observed NC connectivity.

      We performed the following analyses.

      (1) In a subset of experiments, we recorded pupil dynamics while the mice were engaged in a passive visual stimulation experiment (Fig. S8A). We found that pupil dynamics, which indicate the arousal state of the animal, explained only 3% of the variance of neural dynamics. This is significantly smaller than the contribution of sensory stimuli and the activity of the surrounding neuronal population (Fig. S8B). In particular, the visual stimulus itself typically accounted for 10-fold more variance than pupil dynamics (Fig. S8C). This suggests that the population neural activity is highly stimulus-driven and that a large portion of functional connectivity is independent of top-down modulation. In addition, after subtracting the neural activity from the pupil-modulated portion, the cross-stimulus stability of the NC was preserved (Fig. S8D).

      We note that the contribution from pupil dynamics to neural activity in this study is smaller than what was observed in an earlier study (Stringer et al. 2019 Science). That can be because mice were in quiet wakefulness in the current study, while mice were in spontaneous locomotion in the earlier study. We discuss this discrepancy in the main text, in the subsection “Functional connectivity is not explained by the arousal state”.

      (2) We performed network simulations with top-down input (Fig. 6F-H). With multidimensional top-down input comparable to the experimental data, recurrent connections within the network are necessary to generate cross-stimulus stable NC connectivity (Fig. 6G). It took increasing the contribution from the top-down input (i.e., to more than 1/3 of the contribution from the stimulus), before the cross-stimulus NC connectivity can be generated by the top-down modulation (Fig. 6H). Thus, this analysis provides further evidence that top-down modulation was not playing a major role in the NC connectivity we observed.

      These new results support our original conclusion that network connectivity is the principal mechanism underlying the stability of functional networks.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Using multi-region two-photon calcium imaging, the manuscript meticulously explores the structure of noise correlations (NCs) across the mouse visual cortex and uses this information to make inferences about the organization of communication channels between primary visual cortex (V1) and higher visual areas (HVAs). Using visual responses to grating stimuli, the manuscript identifies 6 tuning groups of visual cortex neurons and finds that NCs are highest among neurons belonging to the same tuning group whether or not they are found in the same cortical area. The NCs depend on the similarity of tuning of the neurons (their signal correlations) but are preserved across different stimulus sets - noise correlations recorded using drifting gratings are highly correlated with those measured using naturalistic videos. Based on these findings, the manuscript concludes that populations of neurons with high NCs constitute discrete communication channels that convey visual signals within and across cortical areas.

      Experiments and analyses are conducted to a high standard and the robustness of noise correlation measurements is carefully validated. However, the interpretation of noise correlation measurements as a proxy from network connectivity is fraught with challenges. While the data clearly indicates the existence of distributed functional ensembles, the notion of communication channels implies the existence of direct anatomical connections between them, which noise correlations cannot measure.

      The traditional view of noise correlations is that they reflect direct connectivity or shared inputs between neurons. While it is valid in a broad sense, noise correlations may reflect shared top-down input as well as local or feedforward connectivity. This is particularly important since mouse cortical neurons are strongly modulated by spontaneous behavior (e.g. Stringer et al, Science, 2019). Therefore, noise correlation between a pair of neurons may reflect whether they are similarly modulated by behavioral state and overt spontaneous behaviors. Consequently, noise correlation alone cannot determine whether neurons belong to discrete communication channels.

      Behavioral modulation can influence the gain of sensory-evoked responses (Niell and Stryker, Neuron, 2010). This can explain why signal correlation is one of the best predictors of noise correlations as reported in the manuscript. A pair of neurons that are similarly gain-modulated by spontaneous behavior (e.g. both active during whisking or locomotion) will have higher noise correlations if they respond to similar stimuli. Top-down modulation by the behavioral state is also consistent with the stability of noise correlations across stimuli. Therefore, it is important to determine to what extent noise correlations can be explained by shared behavioral modulation.

      We thank the reviewer for the constructive and positive feedback on our study.

      The reviewer acknowledged the quality of our experiments and analysis and stated a concern that the noise correlation can be explained by top-down modulation. We have addressed this concern carefully in the revision, please see the General Response above.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      This groundbreaking study characterizes the structure of activity correlations over a millimeter scale in the mouse cortex with the goal of identifying visual channels, specialized conduits of visual information that show preferential connectivity. Examining the statistical structure of the visual activity of L2/3 neurons, the study finds pairs of neurons located near each other or across distances of hundreds of micrometers with significantly correlated activity in response to visual stimulation. These highly correlated pairs have closely related visual tuning sharing orientation and/or spatial and/or temporal preference as would be expected from dedicated visual channels with specific connectivity.

      Strengths:

      The study presents best-in-class mesoscopic-scale 2-photon recordings from neuronal populations in pairs of visual areas (V1-LM, V1-PM, V1-AL, V1-LI). The study employs diverse visual stimuli that capture some of the specialization and heterogeneity of neuronal tuning in mouse visual areas. The rigorous data quantification takes into consideration functional cell groups as well as other variables that influence trial-to-trial correlations (similarity of tuning, neuronal distance, receptive field overlap). The paper convincingly demonstrates the robustness of the clustering analysis and of the activity correlation measurements. The calcium imaging results convincingly show that noise correlations are correlated across visual stimuli and are strongest within cell classes which could reflect distributed visual channels. A simple simulation is provided that suggests that recurrent connectivity is required for the stimulus invariance of the results. The paper is well-written and conceptually clear. The figures are beautiful and clear. The arguments are well laid out and the claims appear in large part supported by the data and analysis results (but see weaknesses).

      Weaknesses:

      An inherent limitation of the approach is that it cannot reveal which anatomical connectivity patterns are responsible for observed network structure. The modeling results presented, however, suggest interestingly that a simple feedforward architecture may not account for fundamental characteristics of the data. A limitation of the study is the lack of a behavioral task. The paper shows nicely that the correlation structure generalizes across visual stimuli. However, the correlation structure could differ widely when animals are actively responding to visual stimuli. I do think that, because of the complexity involved, a characterization of correlations during a visual task is beyond the scope of the current study.

      An important question that does not seem addressed (but it is addressed indirectly, I could be mistaken) is the extent to which it is possible to obtain reliable measurements of noise correlation from cell pairs that have widely distinct tuning. L2/3 activity in the visual cortex is quite sparse. The cell groups laid out in Figure S2 have very sharp tuning. Cells whose tuning does not overlap may not yield significant trial-to-trial correlations because they do not show significant responses to the same set of stimuli, if at all any time. Could this bias the noise correlation measurements or explain some of the dependence of the observed noise correlations on signal correlations/similarity of tuning? Could the variable overlap in the responses to visual responses explain the dependence of correlations on cell classes and groups?

      With electrophysiology, this issue is less of a problem because many if not most neurons will show some activity in response to suboptimal stimuli. For the present study which uses calcium imaging together with deconvolution, some of the activity may not be visible to the experimenters. The correlation measure is shown to be robust to changes in firing rates due to missing spikes. However, the degree of overlap of responses between cell pairs and their consequences for measures of noise correlations are not explored.

      Beyond that comment, the remaining issues are relatively minor issues related to manuscript text, figures, and statistical analyses. There are typos left in the manuscript. Some of the methodological details and results of statistical testing also seem to be missing. Some of the visuals and analyses chosen to examine the data (e.g., box plots) may not be the most effective in highlighting differences across groups. If addressed, this would make a very strong paper.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the contributions of our study.

      We agree with the reviewer that future studies on behaviorally engaged animals are necessary. Although we also agree with the reviewer that behavior studies are out the scope of the current manuscript, we have included additional analysis and discussion on whether and how top-down input would affect the NC connectivity in the revision. Please see the General Response above.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Yu et al harness the capabilities of mesoscopic 2P imaging to record simultaneously from populations of neurons in several visual cortical areas and measure their correlated variability. They first divide neurons into 65 classes depending on their tuning to moving gratings. They found the pairs of neurons of the same tuning class show higher noise correlations (NCs) both within and across cortical areas. Based on these observations and a model they conclude that visual information is broadcast across areas through multiple, discrete channels with little mixing across them.

      NCs can reflect indirect or direct connectivity, or shared afferents between pairs of neurons, potentially providing insight on network organization. While NCs have been comprehensively studied in neuron pairs of the same area, the structure of these correlations across areas is much less known. Thus, the manuscripts present novel insights into the correlation structure of visual responses across multiple areas.

      Strengths:

      The study uses state-of-the art mesoscopic two-photon imaging.

      The measurements of shared variability across multiple areas are novel.

      The results are mostly well presented and many thorough controls for some metrics are included.

      Weaknesses:

      I have concerns that the observed large intra-class/group NCs might not reflect connectivity but shared behaviorally driven multiplicative gain modulations of sensory-evoked responses. In this case, the NC structure might not be due to the presence of discrete, multiple channels broadcasting visual information as concluded. I also find that the claim of multiple discrete broadcasting channels needs more support before discarding the alternative hypothesis that a continuum of tuning similarity explains the large NCs observed in groups of neurons.

      Specifically:

      Major concerns:

      (1) Multiplicative gain modulation underlying correlated noise between similarly tuned neurons

      (1a) The conclusion that visual information is broadcasted in discrete channels across visual areas relies on interpreting NC as reflecting, direct or indirect connectivity between pairs, or common inputs. However, a large fraction of the activity in the mouse visual system is known to reflect spontaneous and instructed movements, including locomotion and face movements, among others. Running activity and face movements are some of the largest contributors to visual cortex activity and exert a multiplicative gain on sensory-evoked responses (Niell et al, Stringer et al, among others). Thus, trial-by-fluctuations of behavioral state would result in gain modulations that, due to their multiplicative nature, would result in more shared variability in cotuned neurons, as multiplication affects neurons that are responding to the stimulus over those that are not responding ( see Lin et al, Neuron 2015 for a similar point).<br /> As behavioral modulations are not considered, this confound affects most of the conclusions of the manuscript, as it would result in larger NCs the more similar the tuning of the neurons is, independently of any connectivity feature. It seems that this alternative hypothesis can explain most of the results without the need for discrete broadcasting channels or any particular network architecture and should be addressed to support its main claims.

      (1b) In Figure 5 the observations are interpreted as evidence for NCs reflecting features of the network architecture, as NCs measured using gratings predicted NC to naturalistic videos. However, it seems from Figure 5 A that signal correlations (SCs) from gratings had non-zero correlations with SCs during naturalistic videos (is this the case?). Thus, neurons that are cotuned to gratings might also tend to be coactivated during the presentation of videos. In this case, they are also expected to be susceptible to shared behaviorally driven fluctuations, independently of any circuit architecture as explained before. This alternative interpretation should be addressed before concluding that these measurements reflect connectivity features.

      We thank the reviewer for acknowledging the contributions of our study.

      The reviewer suggested that gain modulation might be interfering with the interpretation of the NC connectivity. We have addressed this issue in the General Response above.

      Here, we will elaborate on one additional analysis we performed, in case it might be of interest. We carried out multiplicative gain modeling by implementing an established method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci) on our dataset. We were able to perform the modeling work successfully. However, we found that it is not a suitable model for explaining the current dataset because the multiplicative gain induced a negative correlation. This seemed odd but can be explained. First, top-down input is not purely multiplicative but rather both additive and multiplicative. Second, the top-down modulation is high dimensional. Third, the firing rate of layer 2/3 mouse visual cortex neurons is lower than the firing rates for non-human primate recordings used in the development of the method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci). Thus, we did not pursue the model further. We just mention it here in case the outcome might be of interest to fellow researchers.

      (2) Discrete vs continuous communication channels

      (2a) One of the author's main claims is that the mouse cortical network consists of discrete communication channels. This discreteness is based on an unbiased clustering approach to the tuning of neurons, followed by a manual grouping into six categories in relation to the stimulus space. I believe there are several problems with this claim. First, this clustering approach is inherently trying to group neurons and discretise neural populations. To make the claim that there are 'discrete communication channels' the null hypothesis should be a continuous model. An explicit test in favor of a discrete model is lacking, i.e. are the results better explained using discrete groups vs. when considering only tuning similarity? Second, the fact that 65 classes are recovered (out of 72 conditions) and that manual clustering is necessary to arrive at the six categories is far from convincing that we need to think about categorically different subsets of neurons. That we should think of discrete communication channels is especially surprising in this context as the relevant stimulus parameter axes seem inherently continuous: spatial and temporal frequency. It is hard to motivate the biological need for a discretely organized cortical network to process these continuous input spaces.

      (2b) Consequently, I feel the support for discrete vs continuous selective communication is rather inconclusive. It seems that following the author's claims, it would be important to establish if neurons belong to the same groups, rather than tuning similarity is a defining feature for showing large NCs.

      Thanks for pointing this out so that we can clarify.

      We did not mean to argue that the tuning of neurons is discrete. Our conclusions are not dependent on asserting a particular degree of discreteness. We performed GMM clustering to label neurons with an identity so that we could analyze the NC connectivity structure with a degree of granularity supported by the data. Our analysis suggested that communication happens within a class, rather than through mixed classes. We realized that using the term “discrete” may be confusing. In the revised text we used the term “unmixed” or “non-mixing” instead to emphasize that the communication happens between neurons belonging to the same tuning cluster, or class. 

      However, we do see how the question of discreteness among classes might be interesting to readers. To provide further information, we have included a new Fig. S2 to visualize the GMM classes using t-SNE embedding.

      Finally, as stated in point 1, the larger NCs observed within groups than across groups might be due to the multiplicative gain of state modulations, due to the larger tuning similarity of the neurons within a class or group.

      We have addressed this issue in the General Response above and the response to comment (1).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor (Recommendations For The Authors):

      A general recommendation discussed with the reviewers is to make use of behavioural recording to assess whether shared behaviourally driven modulations can explain the observed relation between SC and NC, independently of the network architecture. Alternatively, a simulation or model might also address this point as well as the possibility that the relation of SC and NC might be also independent of network architecture given the sparseness of the sensory responses in L2/3.

      We have addressed this in the General Response above.

      Broadly speaking, inferring network architecture based on NCs is extremely challenging. Consequently, the study could also be substantially improved by reframing the results in terms of distributed co-active ensembles without insinuation of direct anatomical connectivity between them.

      We agree that the inferring network architecture based on NCs is challenging. The current study has revealed some principles of functional networks measured by NCs, and we showed that cross-stimulus NC connectivity provides effective constraints to network modeling. We are explicit about the nature of NCs in the manuscript. For example, in the Abstract, we write “to measure correlated variability (i.e., noise correlations, NCs)”, and in the Introduction, we write “NCs are due to connectivity (direct or indirect connectivity between the neurons, and/or shared input)”. We are following conventions in the field (e.g., Sporns 2016; Cohen and Kohn 2011).

      Notice also that the abstract or title should make clear that the study was made in mice.

      Sorry for the confusion, we now clearly state the study was carried out in mice in the Abstract and Introduction.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The manuscript presents a meticulous characterization of noise correlations in the visual cortical network. However, as I outline in the public review, I think the use of noise correlations to infer communication channels is problematic and I urge the authors to carefully consider this terminology. Language such as "strength of connections" (Figure 4D) should be avoided.

      We now state in the figure legend that the plot in Fig. 4D shows the average NC value.

      My general suggestion to the authors, which primarily concerns the interpretation of analyses in Figures 4-6, is to consider the possible impact of shared top-down modulation on noise correlations. If behavioral data was recorded simultaneously (e.g. using cameras to record face and body movements), behavioral modulation should be considered alongside signal correlation as a possible factor influencing NCs.

      We have addressed this issue in the General Response above.

      I may be misunderstanding the analysis in Figure 4C but it appears circular. If the fraction of neurons belonging to a particular tuning group is larger, then the number of in-group high NC pairs will be higher for that group even if high NC pairs are distributed randomly. Can you please clarify? I frankly do not understand the analysis in Figure 4D and it is unclear to me how the analyses in Figure 4C-D address the hypotheses depicted in the cartoons.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have clarified this in the Fig. 4 legend.

      Each HVA has a SFTF bias (Fig. 1E,F; Marshel et al., 2011; Andermann et al., 2011; Vries et al., 2020). Each red marker on the graph in Fig. 4C is a single V1-HVA pair (blue markers are within an area) for a particular SFTF group (Fig. 1). The x-axis indicates the number of high NC pairs in the SFTF group in the V1-HVA pair divided by the total number of high NC pairs per that V1-HVA pair (summed over all SFTF groups). The trend is that for HVAs with a bias towards a particular SFTF group, there are also more high NC pairs in that SFTF group, and thus it is consistent with the model on the right side. This is not circular because it is possible to have a SFTF bias in an HVA and have uniformly low NCs. The reviewer is correct that a random distribution of high NCs could give a similar effect, which is still consistent with the model: that the number of high NC pairs (and not their specific magnitudes) can account for SFTF biases in HVAs.

      To contrast with that model, we tested whether the average NC value for each tuning group varies. That is, can a small number of very high NCs account for SFTF biases in HVAs? That is what is examined in Fig. 4D. We found that the average NC value does not account for the SFTF biases. Thus, the SFTF biases were not related to the modulation in NC (i.e., functional connection strength). 

      I found the discussion section quite odd and did not understand the relevance of the discussion of the coefficient of variation of various quantities to the present manuscript. It would be more useful to discuss the limitations and possible interpretations of noise correlation measurements in more detail.

      We have revised the discussion section to focus on interpreting the results of the current study and comparing them with those of previous studies.

      Figure 3B: please indicate what the different colors mean - I assume it is the same as Figure 3A but it is unclear.

      We added text to the legend for clarification.

      Typos: Page 7: "direct/indirection wiring", Page 11: "pooled over all texted areas"

      We have fixed the typos.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The significance of the results feels like it could be articulated better. The main conclusion is that V1 to HVA connections avoid mixing channels and send distinctly tuned information along distinct channels - a more explicit description of what this functional network understanding adds would be useful to the reader.

      Thanks for the suggestion. We have edited the introduction section and the discussion section to make the take-home message more clear.

      Previous studies with anatomical data already indicate distinctly tuned channels - several of which the authors cite - although inconsistently:

      • Kim et al 2018 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuron.2018.10.023

      • Glickfeld et al., 2013 (cited)

      • Han et al., 2022 (cited)

      • Han and Bonin 2023 (cited)

      Thanks for the suggestion, we now cite the Kim et al. 2018 paper.

      I think the information you provide is valuable - but the value should be more clearly spelled out - This section from the end of the discussion for example feels like abdicates that responsibility:<br /> "In summary, mesoscale two-photon imaging techniques open up the window of cellular-resolution functional connectivity at the system level. How to make use of the knowledge of functional connectivity remains unclear, given that functional connectivity provides important constraints on population neuron behavior."

      A discussion of how the results relate to previous studies and a section on the limitations of the study seems warranted.

      Thanks for the suggestion, we have extensively edited the discussion section to make the take-home message clear and discuss prior studies and limitations of the present study.

      Details:

      Analyses or simulations showing that the dependency of correlations on similarity of tuning is not an artifact of how the data was acquired is in my mind missing and if that is the case it is crucial that this be addressed.

      At each step of data analysis, we performed control analysis to assess the fidelity of the conclusion. For example, on the spike train inference (Fig. S4), GMM clustering (Fig. S1), and noise correlation analysis (Figs. 2, S5).

      None of the statistical testing seems to use animals as experimental units (instead of neurons). This could over-inflate the significance of the results. Wherever applicable and possible, I would recommend using hierarchical bootstrap for testing or showing that the differences observed are reproducible across animals.

      We analyzed the tuning selectivity of HVAs (Fig. 1F) using experimental units, rather than neurons. It is very difficult to observe all tuning classes in each experiment, so pooling neurons across animals is necessary for much of the analysis. We do take care to avoid overstating statistical results, and we show the data points in most figure to give the reader an impression of the distributions.

      Page 2. "The number of neurons belonged to the six tuning groups combined: V1, 5373; LM, 1316; AL, 656; PM, 491; LI, 334." Yet the total recorded number of neurons is 17,990. How neurons were excluded is mentioned in Methods but it should be stated more explicitly in Results.

      We have added text in the Fig. 1 legend to direct the audience to the Methods section for information on the exclusion / inclusion criteria.

      Figure 1C, left. I don't understand how correlation is the best way to quantify the consistency of class center with a subset of data. Why not use for example as the mean square error. The logic underlying this analysis is not explained in Methods.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have clarified this in the Methods section.

      We measured the consistency of the centers of the Gaussian clusters, which are 45-dimensional vectors in the PC dimensions. We measured the Pearson correlation of Gaussian center vectors independently defined by GMM clustering on random subsets of neurons. We found the center of the Gaussian profile of each class was consistent (Fig. 1C). The same class of different GMMs was identified by matching the center of the class.

      Figure 1E. There are statements in the text about cell groups being more represented in certain visual areas. These differences are not well represented in the box plots. Can't the individual data points be plotted? I have also not found the description and results of statistical testing for these data.

      We have replotted the figure (now Fig. 1F) with dot scatters which show all of the individual experiments.

      Figure 2A, right, since these are paired data, I am not quite sure why only marginal distributions are shown. It would be interesting to know the distributions of correlations that are significant.

      This is only for illustration showing that NCs are measurable and significantly different from zero or shuffled controls. The distribution of NCs is broad and has both positive and negative values. We are not using this for downstream analysis.

      Figure 4A, I wonder if it would not be better to concentrate on significant correlations.

      We focused on large correlation values rather than significant values because we wanted to examine the structure of “strongly connected” neuron pairs. Negative and small correlation values can be significant as well. Focusing on large values would allow us to generate a clear interpretation.  

      Figure 4B, 'Mean strength of connections' which I presume mean correlations is not defined anywhere that I can see.

      I believe the reviewer means Fig. 4D. It means the average NC value. We have edited the figure legend to add clarity.

      Figure 4F, a few words explaining how to understand the correlation matrix in text or captions would be helpful.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have clarified this part in figure legend for Fig. 4F.

      Page 5, right column: Incomplete sentence: "To determine whether it is the number of high NC pairs or the magnitude of the NCs,".

      We have edited this sentence.

      Page 5, right column: "Prior findings from studies of axonal projections from V1 to HVAs indicated that the number of SF-TF-specific boutons -rather than the strength of boutons- contribute to the SF-TF biases among HVAs (Glickfeld et al., 2013)." Glickfeld et al. also reported that boutons with tuning matched to the target area showed stronger peak dF/F responses.

      Thank you. We have revised this part accordingly.

      Page 9, the Discussion and Figure 7 which situates the study results in a broader context is welcome and interesting, but I have the feeling that more words should be spent explaining the figure and conceptual framework to a non-expert audience. I am a bit at a loss about how to read the information in the figure.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have added an explanation about this section (page 10, right column).

      As far as I can see, data availability is not addressed in the manuscript. The data, code to analyze the data and generate the figures, and simulation code should be made available in a permanent public repository. This includes data for visual area mapping, calcium imaging data, and any data accessory to the experiments.

      We have stated in the manuscript that code and data are available upon request. We regularly share data with no conditions (e.g., no entitlement to authorship), and we often do so even prior to publication.

      The sex of the mice should be indicated in Figure T1.

      The sex of the mice was mixed. This is stated in the Methods section.

      Methods:

      Section on statistical testing, computation of explained variance missing, etc. I feel many analyses are not thoroughly described.

      Sorry for the confusion, we have improved our method section.

      Signal correlation (similarity between two neurons' average responses to stimuli) and its relation to noise correlation is not formally defined.

      We have included the definition of signal correlation in the Methods.

      Number of visual stimulation trials is not stated in Methods. Only stated figure caption.

      The number of visual stimulus trials is provided in the last paragraph of the Methods section (Visual Stimuli).

      Fix typos: incorrect spelling, punctuation, and missing symbols (e.g. closing parentheses).

      We have carefully examined the spelling, punctuation, and grammar. We have corrected errors and we hope that none remain.

      Why use intrinsic imaging to locate retinotopic boundaries in mice already expressing GCaMP6s?

      We agree with the reviewer that calcium imaging of visual cortex can be used to identify the visual cortex.

      It is true that areas can be mapped using the GCaMP signals. That is not our preferred approach. Using intrinsic imaging to define the boundary between V1 and HVAs has been a well refined routine in our lab for over a decade. It is part of our standard protocol. One advantage is that the data (from intrinsic signals) is of the same nature every time. This enables us to use the same mapping procedure no matter what reporters mice might be expressing (and the pattern, e.g., patchy or restricted to certain cell types).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The possibilty that larger intra-group NCs observed simply reflect a multiplicative gain on cotuned neurons could be addressed using pupil and/or face recordings: Does pupil size or facial motion predict NCs and if factored out, does signal correlation still predict NCs?

      Perhaps a variant of the network model presented in Figure 6 with multiplicative gain could also be tested to investigate these issues.

      We have addressed this issue in general response.

      Here, we will elaborate on one additional analysis we performed, in case it might be of interest. We carried out multiplicative gain modeling by implementing an established method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci) on our dataset. We were able to perform the modeling work successfully. However, we found that it is not a suitable model for explaining the current dataset because the multiplicative gain induced a negative correlation. This seemed odd but can be explained. First, top-down input is not purely multiplicative but rather both additive and multiplicative. Second, the top-down modulation is high dimensional. Third, the firing rate of layer 2/3 mouse visual cortex neurons is lower than the firing rates for non-human primate recordings used in the development of the method (Goris et al. 2014 Nat Neurosci). Thus, we did not pursue the model further. We just mention it here in case the outcome might be of interest to fellow researchers.

      Similarly further analyses can be done to strengthen support for the claims that the observed NCs reflect discrete communication channels. A direct test of continuous vs categorical channels would strengthen the conclusions. One possible analysis would be to compare pairs with similar tuning (same SC) belonging to the same or different groups.

      Thanks for pointing this out so that we can clarify.

      We did not mean to argue that the tuning of neurons is discrete. Our conclusions are not dependent on asserting a particular degree of discreteness. We performed GMM clustering to label neurons with an identity so that we could analyze the NC connectivity structure with a degree of granularity supported by the data. Our analysis suggested that communication happens within a class, rather than through mixed classes. We realized that using the term “discrete” may be confusing. In the revised text we used the term “unmixed” or “non-mixing” instead to emphasize that the communication happens between neurons belonging to the same tuning cluster, or class. 

      However, we do see how the question of discreteness among classes might be interesting to readers. To provide further information, we have included a new Fig. S2 to visualize the GMM classes using t-SNE embedding.

      I also found many places where the manuscript needs clarification and /or more methodological details:<br /> • How many times was each of the stimulus conditions repeated? And how many times for the two naturalistic videos? What was the total duration of the experiments?

      The number of visual stimulus trials is provided in the last paragraph of the Methods section entitled Visual Stimuli. About 15 trials were recorded for each drifting grating stimulus, and about 20 trials were recorded for each naturalistic video.

      • Typo: Suit2p should be Suite2p (section Calcium image processing - Methods).

      We have fixed the typo.

      • What do the error bars in Figure 1E represent? Differences in group representation across areas from Figure 1E are mentioned in the text without any statistical testing.

      We have revised the Figure 1E (current Fig. 1F), and we now show all data points.

      • The manuscript would benefit from a comparison of the observed area-specific tuning biases across areas (Figure 1E and others) with the previous literature.

      We have included additional discussion on this in the last paragraph of the section entitled Visual cortical neurons form six tuning groups.

      • Why are inferred spike trains used to calculate NCs? Why can't dF/F be used? Do the results differ when using dF/F to calculate NC? Please clarify in the text.

      We believe inferred spike trains provide better resolution and make it easier to compare with quantitative values from electrical recordings. Notice that NC values computed using dF/F can be much larger than those computed by inferred spike trains. For example, see Smith & Hausser 2010 Nat Neurosci. Supplementary Figure S8.

      • The sentence seems incomplete or unclear: "That is, there are more high NC pairs that are in-group." Explicit vs what?

      We have revised this sentence.

      • Figure 1E is unclear to me. What is being plotted? Please add a color bar with the metric and the units for the matrix (left) and in the tuning curves (right panels). If the Y and X axes represent the different classes from the GMM, why are there more than 65 rows? Why is the matrix not full?

      We have revised this figure. Fig. 1D is the full 65 x 65 matrix. Fig. 1F has small 3x3 matrices mapping the responses to different TF and SF of gratings. We hope the new version is clearer.

      • How are receptive fields defined? How are their long and short axes calculated? How are their limits defined when calculating RF overlap?

      We have added further details in the Methods section entitled “Receptive field analysis”.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This useful study presents a simple homeostatic-plasticity model in spiking E-I networks to link spontaneous critical dynamics with representational drift and relatively stable stimulus-response geometry in mouse visual cortex. However, the evidence is incomplete because key concepts and analysis details are not well defined, controls are limited, and several results might be the result of specific methodological choices (e.g., dimensionality reduction, aggregation, or tuned parameters) rather than a robust mechanism. As a result, the work currently supports an interesting correlation between these phenomena, but not a clear causal account.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors study criticality and drift in spontaneous activity observed in visual cortex of mice from existing data, and relate it to a model based on homeostatic plasticity. The main phenomena are power laws and an alignment across different neural representations that is maintained through drift.

      Strengths:

      The authors should be commended by making the effort of relating their model to experimental data. The mechanism that they propose has the advantage of being simple, and could unify various phenomena.

      Weaknesses:

      Introduction/abstract: General wording: the notion of reliability, which is key to the paper is not explicitly defined anywhere. The authors refer to some notion of information being preserved, but again, this is not clearly explained. A good example is the sentence "identical input signals exhibit significant variability but also share certain reliability across sessions". Depending on the definition of reliability, the sentence could be a contradiction. A similar issue appears when the authors talk about "restricted" representation. I get what they want to say, but it's not properly defined. "One example is the recent studies about stimulus-evoked..." The sentence explains that there are examples, but provides no citations! Also "One" and "exampleS"

      Fig. 1: - The method to fit the power law is not detailed in the methods (just a vague reference to a package). This is a problem because some methods like least squares don't do well on power laws, and particularly for neuroscience due to low sampling (Wilting & Priesemann, Nat com.). - The "olive" curve is not "olive". Olive is dark green, and the color is purple. The problem appears in the subsequent figure.

      Fig. 2: - The number of neurons is very small (19). This is very odd, since the original dataset has a lot of neurons. Also, the authors seem to pick age 97 and 102, but do not explain why those two points have any relevance. - If you run a correlation you need to explain what is the correlation (pearson, spearman?). It also matters where the variables are normalized or not, and there is no control for shuffling. - The authors mention "low dimensional", but don't explain what method they use (looks t-SNE to me). - The authors use the word "signal" while in the text they refer to the "mean activity". Are those the same? - "We reproduced previous results showing that low-dimensional embeddings of mean population response vectors for different signals remain similar across sessions" The blue and green clusters that the authors report as being close across sessions are not close. Red-green-grey seem to remain closer, but even that is quite a stretch. - Correlation across matrices is strange. Since the authors did not clarify the actual formula or method, the correlation of 0.5 in Fig. 2E could be simply due to the fact that all the variables are pre-selected to be positive (or above threshold). This would also have an important effect on the angle (Fig. G). In fact, it would explain how comes that the correlation does not decrease with Delta T (which is what would be expected from drift. - Whenever the authors run a statistical analysis, it would help to run a shuffled control.

      Self-organised criticality emerges through homeostatic plasticity. - The authors refer a lot to reference 35, but it's not clear what is the difference between their work and that one. - The text provides a general overview and refers to the methods for details. Since most of the results are based on that mode, I suggest putting it in the main text (although this is an opinion, not a dealbreaker). - Especially, mention which populations are we talking about, what are the numbers of neurons in each, and how are they connected.

      • Fig. 4 has a lot of the same weaknesses as Fig. 2. In fact, the results on E are very similar, despite the fact that the matrices in D are clearly not the same.

      Enhanced Neural representation through self-organised criticality The phase transition seems to be an observation over a computational model, but I don't see much analysis. It would be nice to have some order parameter, although the plots are convincing without it. The authors do spend time talking about co-spiking and silent periods though, but don't actually plot this. The only reference is to S4, which actually only seems to cover the super-critical state.

      Fig 6: - It might be true that the accuracy peaks at the critical point, but it's really hard to call it significant. The authors should run multiple models and assess significance. - I don't entirely see the point of C. What does it mean for the model? And although I assume it is on the same experimental data, the authors do not mention it.

      Fig. 7: - Plot is squeezed, and has low resolution. - Since the authors didn't clarify whether they have II connections or not (some models use them, some don't), or whether their plasticity applies to inhibitory neurons, it is very hard to assess what are the differences between A and B.

      References: There are a fair amount of works that studied computational models for criticality. I am particularly thinking of the works of Bruno del Papa "Criticality meets learning: Criticality signatures in a self-organizing recurrent neural network". Experimentally, there are works showing that the so-called spontaneous activity is actually very reliable (if you record enough neurons). Nghia et al. "Nguyen, Nghia D., et al. "Cortical reactivations predict future sensory responses." Nature 625.7993 (2024): 110-118."

      An important point missing in this work is that it assumes that spontaneous activity is somehow intrinsically generated. This is not necessarily true of cortical areas (where it could easily come from hippocampus).

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This work attempts to reconcile the concepts of critical neural dynamics with short-term reliable responses and long-term drifting responses. This is an important question, because critical dynamics are typically associated with unpredictable population responses to perturbations. Instead, this paper demonstrates that recordings from the mouse visual cortex include typical avalanche statistics in their spontaneous state as well as clustered within-session responses to natural movies. The authors find that a spiking neural network with homeostatic plasticity on inhibitory coupling captures the correlation-based metrics observed in experiments and that this network self-organizes into a critical state.

      Strengths:

      The structure of the manuscript is clear, and the line of argumentation is easy to follow. The question raised is valid, and the model employed to answer it is adequate. While I am unsure if representation should be equated with reliable responses, I find the framework of reliable responses well-suited to compare experimental and numerical data.

      Weaknesses:

      • The claim that the presented model "self-organizes to the critical spontaneous state" is incompatible with Fig. 6 showing that the inhibitory timescale is a control parameter of the transition from subcritical to supercritical avalanche statistics.

      • The notion of "drift" implies to me a gradual change on long timescales. This is demonstrated in Ref. [47] for a model including two different types of plasticity. Also, such a drift over time was observed in Ref. [11] Fig.3C. In the present work, we can see from Fig. 2E that the correlation drops immediately to a plateau. Instead, the model actually shows some decay of correlations, expected from the ongoing plasticity. This challenges the claim that the "model successfully reproduce[s] both representational drift and [...]". Instead, the model of [47] does reproduce representation drift.

      • The claim that "spontaneous self-organized criticality serves as [...] functional mechanism for maintaining reliable information representation under continuously changing networks" is not justified by the above-raised points.

      • From the methods, I understand that the dimensionality reduction in Fig.2C and Fig.4C is a result of independent t-SNE. Since t-SNE to my knowledge starts with a random projection of data to then optimize the embedding, the resulting orientation of independent runs cannot be compared such that statements like "rotation of low-dimensional representations as in Fig. 2C, where nodes (centers of the same-color clusters) change their positions across sessions (top panel and bottom panel), but their relative positions remain stable" are not possible.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study uses computational modeling of a spiking network of E-I with homeostatic inhibitory plasticity and aims to show that self-organized criticality that arises from the homeostatic mechanism can result in representational drift as well as reliable stimulus representation, because the geometric representation of stimuli remains restricted.

      Strengths:

      This paper provides a framework to link critical spontaneous state, homeostatic inhibitory plasticity, representational drift, and stimulus population response reliability

      Weaknesses:

      The study does not show a causal (or necessary/ sufficient) relationship between criticality at the spontaneous state, representational drift, and reliable stimulus presentation. The study only reports an observation that these features could co-exist. However, it does not show how the criticality of the spontaneous state could restrict the manifold for stimulus response.