Good Enough Is Very Fine: Royal KMG Tabulator Issue by [[maryech]]

Carriage on a Royal KMG was grinding, so Mary disconnected the spring on the brake gear for the tabulator rack to fix the issue.

The brake gear on Royals isn't meant to be engaged during normal typing operation.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4770669677/?multi_permalinks=10162232824949678

Reported via Elisabeth Paton.

The Last Typewriter Shop Near Boston Is Closing. Here's What Its Owner Learned Along the Way by [[Jake Kleinman]]

https://www.ebay.com/usr/spanghew

A gentleman in MA named Nis Kildegaard heavily refurbishes and sells various electric and mechanical typewriters on eBay under the seller name "spanghew." via Derrell Sherrod https://www.facebook.com/groups/705152958470148/posts/1023976513254456/?comment_id=1024077156577725

See also: https://www.youtube.com/c/NisKildegaard

Royal Arrow by [[Joe Van Cleave]]

Joe Van Cleave on the importance of holding your mouth just right as you effectuate typewriter repairs.

https://youtu.be/qrlt6VyC8D0?si=rsFVWr30nmzpb8Zd&t=1052

Description of a set screw on the drive mechanism on the Royal Arrow / Royal Quiet De Luxe portables' ribbon reversal system for cleanly effectuating the reversal

https://youtu.be/qrlt6VyC8D0?si=rMlSFmo1rrbsfuEW&t=800

https://youtu.be/qrlt6VyC8D0?si=yHjByRVLa2BMYt-4&t=485

Description of typebars sticking at the typing point and needing forming to repair them.

u/Dangerous-Ratio6448 is a typewriter repair person at TB Writers Plus

Learning Typewriter Maintenance and Repair by [[Chris Aldrich]]

https://typespec.com/typewriter-service-apprentice-training-update-2/

Paul Lundy has a 12 week apprenticeship program for typewriter repair at Bremerton Typewriter.

https://www.reddit.com/user/palump/

Works at Bremerton Office Machine Co., 245 Fourth St, Suite 503, Bremerton, WA 98310

Given the screen name, it's likely Paul Lundy? Bremerton Typewriter

Cross reference: - https://reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1lgaptx/how_do_you_source_parts/myw369m/

https://old.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1i0w488/do_you_tip_for_machine_servicing/

Tipping is generally not encouraged at typewriter shops.

via u/palump at https://reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1i1ydyz/nobody_in_boston_big_enough_to_fill_these_shoes/m7e497l/

Bremerton Typewriter has a 12 week apprentice training program as a means of helping to create the next generation of typewriter repair people.

https://reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/160pen0/typewriter_repair_shops_in_the_usa/jxryjns/

https://www.printables.com/model/1338443-olympia-sm2sm3sm4-frame-bushing-and-washer/files

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1lkpl2c/3dprinted_olympia_sm_frame_bushings/

see also: https://www.printables.com/model/1338443-olympia-sm2sm3sm4-frame-bushing-and-washer/files

Berkeley’s California Typewriter, star of documentary, closes shop by [[Cirrus Wood]] 2020-02-21

from 2011

https://www.biedlers-belts.com/single-v-belts/polyflex-belts.html

VOGUE by [[Lucas Dul]]

Lucas talks about swapping out the segment and typebars of a Royal P to transplant a Vogue typeface.

The design changed in about 1930 for a different width.

grand opening of Indy Type Shop in Indianapolis, IN on 2025-05-14<br /> https://www.facebook.com/events/9811716722250635/

Repairing typewriter broken carriage spring. #typewriters #Olympia #repairing by [[Subham Kumar]]

Royal QDL Carriage Removal/Install-The Easy Way…do you want to fight? by [[The HotRod Typewriter Co.]]

SM7 carriage bearings won't work on a QDL-style typewriter, but Royal Diana ones will. It requires removing a pin from the tab mechanism (after loosening a side nut). There's also bilateral carriage stop nuts which require removing at least one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1lhemm3/olympia_sm9_1973_model_platen_and_feed_roller/

Notes for platen removal on an Olympia SM9.

https://youtu.be/ciVbKWMO3xY?si=qYWgTCMm0EJivN9M&t=462

Sarah describes the issue of slightly and accidentally forming an important piece while carrying out repairs. These sorts of repairs are incredibly subtle and require careful troubleshooting and observation.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/705152958470148/posts/1010406587944782/

Removing the carriage of the Royal Quiet De Luxe is generally not recommended.

https://www.harborfreight.com/200-piece-assorted-spring-set-67562.html

An inexpensive set of replacement springs for typewriter repair.

https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Thermos-Insulated-Stainless-Tumbler/dp/B0DQT9J4WM?th=1

Gift idea for typewriter restorers, repairpeople, etc. h/t Bryan of Typing Pint.

https://reddit.com/user/colombocollection/comments/1ldes6b/to_all_my_north_georgia_peeps_i_will_be_at_my/

Jennifer Colombo of Colombo Collection has ties to Ellijay, GA.

reply to u/SisterGoldenHair70 at https://reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1lbjr5f/sorry_to_say/mxz1ag2/

I'm honestly curious about your definition of a "machine that only cost $250" is? Make/Model? Where was it bought? What is the actual condition (both cosmetic exterior and mechanical interior as well as cleanliness)? Also, what is your definition of investment with respect to how you're going to use it? Is it a display machine? Is it for display and the occasional addressed envelope or grocery store list? Or is it something you're planning on giving moderate to heavy use on a daily or weekly basis as a professional writer?

Most typewriter repair shops won't spend more than $20 on purchasing a machine and typically they're getting machines donated for free (or for the cost of coming to pick them up); then they spend hours to clean, oil, adjust, repair and restore them for sale in the $400-600 range unless they've got rarer colors or typefaces. (At this level, you're probably not getting any new rubber at all.) The level of restoration is definitely a choice as there are restorers out there who can easlily charge in the $1,500+ range depending on how much work you want done and to what level.

As an example, if someone chooses to spend $120-200 pus shipping on something like an old/dirty Olympia SM3 with old gaskets from an outlet like ShopGoodwill.com (the current going rate for one in unknown condition and only using photos) that is going to need several hundred dollars of repair work, that's their choice. If they don't have the expertise, it's far better to buy one outright in the $500 range from a shop. Usually people are just keeping that $120 machine and limping along with what it offers instead of cleaning it up or they attempt to do the clean up work themselves. This work may seem "free", but it's time, effort, and expense of one sort or another. Economists call this opportunity cost.

There is a massive information imbalance in the typewriter market between buyers and sellers, because incredibly few people really have any idea of what they've got and what sort of condition it is in. This imbalance means that most professional shops are an absolute steal if you're looking for something in excellent condition that's going to be a work-a-day typewriter or be in good shape for another 50-75 years.

As a small example, an indiviual could call JJ Short and get a platen recovered for around $100 plus two way shipping, but you take it to a shop and you're probably looking at $180 because they're going to charge you for the time, effort, and cost of knowing what to do, where to ship it, taking it off, putting it back on, and doing the appropriate ring & cylinder, on-feet, and motion adjustments on

reply to u/TypewriterJustice at https://old.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1lbjr5f/sorry_to_say/mxunsb6/

I think the real crime here was the quote of $200 for all this work. $200 should just barely cover the recovered platen, rollers, and new feet with any margin. The full clean, oil, and adjust is a few more hours at $40-75/hour and that's not even getting to the parts or labor on the tougher troubleshooting and repair portions. With this rough diagnosis and potential issues, I (and many others I'm sure) would be quoting closer to $500-600 for a refurbish job at this level.

Living in the LA area, I'm blessed to have 7 shops within a reasonable drive, but if I put a machine into the queue at most of them it'd be a two or three month's wait time at the very best. Most of them have been at the game for decades much less in the midst of also recently setting up a brick and mortar shop.

As a point of comparison, Lucas Dul publishes his wait list on his website (currently 84 people) where he states "Average repair cost is $300-350 for general cleaning, service, and minor repairs. Average turnaround time is 2-3 weeks." Perhaps Charlie might benefit from creating a wait list and not taking machines into the shop until his time and attention can turn directly to them?

It's not often addressed here in this fora how much one should expect to either pay or wait for repair services which aren't evenly distributed across the United States and likely even less so in many other countries. In the broader scheme of things, I think that you get a far better deal at professional shops than you're going to find within the broader public of so-called typewriter sellers (antique shops, thrift stores, etc.)

As a point of reference, I'm an advanced hobbyist with my own garage-based shop for my personal collection and even I get one or two queries a week about repairing or restoring the machines of others, so I'm at least reasonably aware of what some of the wait times can look like. I wish I had the time or stock of parts machines to do more than a handful of friends and family repairs on top of my own personal repair work.

Sadly, at the end of the day, it sounds like both sides were potentially not good at communicating expectations about how long repairs would take. If nothing else we should all be sharing more details about these issues to help level set how this all works for the broader typewriter community.

Typewriter repair people on r/typewriters:

• Lucas Dul of Typewriter Chicago: u/Lucasdul2 #
• Kirk Jackson of Nashville Typewriter: u/NashvilleTypewriter
• Scott Connnors of Stephentown Typewriter: u/scottconnors #
• Typewriter Justice of Keller, TX: u/TypewriterJustice

via TypewriterJustice at https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1lb8brp/type_slug_question/

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1l8byfh/quick_question_about_the_ibm_selectric_series/

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1l6njbd/successful_platen_shrink_tube_project/

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1jn08u7/royal_vibrator_spring_help_how_does_this_attach/

Type Shop, Ep. 3: How to remove and install the carriage on a Royal Standard Desktop Typewriter by [[Typewriter Chicago]]

Plastic Repair Welding MELDING Reinforced with Metal Demo DIY (#1) by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1l03oxd/stephentown_typewriter/

https://newenglandtypewriter.com/about-us

Electric Repair Tip: Drive Belt Replacements by [[Sarah Everett]] of [[Just My Typewriter]]

Sarah Everett has used water filter o-rings of 3 3/4 x 4 1/8 to replace the drive belts of her electric typewriters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PUYEJB2/

Sarah Everett suggests using a saw to turn Phillips head screws into a flat head screw if they've been stripped.

Confidence is a (the?) key ingredient of typewriter repair.

rofl!

via https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3xNRlLd1-c

Smith Corona H Electronic Typewriter Repair High Pitch Buzz Rattle Disassemble Fix by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1k0q8ep/olivetti_studio_44_case_lock_mechanism/

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1kp9cye/any_guesses_on_how_these_springs_go_back_together/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/typewritermaintenance/posts/4083165991920819/

Kenneth Alexander begins tearing down a Hermes 3000 typewriter for servicing.

https://typewritermuse.com/ <br /> Bob Marshall

Everyone mentioned most of the usual tricks, but one.

To get your sticky typewriter keys working again, while you're flushing out the segment with your solvent of choice (lacquer thinner, paint thinner, mineral spirits, alcohol, etc.), actually move the typebars using the keys or by other means. This will help to get them moving and allow the solvent and subsequently compressed air to help flush the oil, dust, hair, etc. out of your machine. You've already got a mechanical cleaning device of sorts (the typebar itself) inside the segment, so move it while you're flushing it out!

It may take a few repeated treatments/attempts to get it all clear for all the keys, but it's far easier than taking everything apart.

reply to u/nogaesallowed at https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1cp75ln/how_do_you_clean_a_1mm_gap/

People were recommending all sorts of ideas and solvents here, including folded card stock, tooth brushes, floss, toothpicks, interdental brushes, wood cuticle sticks, Swiss Army knife tweezers, microbrushes, and even an ultrasonic cleaner.

Royal Futura 800 Typewriter Plastic Key Top White Crud Removal Cleaning Servicing by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

For the white, crusty out gassing (or off gassing) on plastic typewriter keys, Duane recommends a round or two of Simple Green with a stiff bristle brush. Follow this up with a scrub down using WD-40 to displace the water from the Simple Green and then follow up with denatured alcohol, which is safe on plastics, and a wipe down with a rag to dry.

Peter V. Tytell, a Typewriter Whisperer, Is Dead at 74 by [[Richard Sandomir]]

https://akblongs.nl/

Per Pelicram, AKB Longs does platen recovering for typewriters in Europe: Send an email to rollen@akblongs.nl Prices are about 40€ + VAT for portable platens + shipping both ways

Olympia Typewriter Spacers 3D printed with TPU Filament by [[Subham Kumar]]

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7009800

A Type-In to Say Goodbye to a New England Institution by Scott Cacciola and Jillian Freyer for New York Times 2025-03-24

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1jlg0l9/new_typewriter_first_typewriter/

Two poets to open a typewriter and book shop in Garfield Park by [[Sophie Young]]

recently opened typewriter repair shops, 2025

Usually it might have been typewriter shop, gun shop, then cell phone store, so it's intriguing to see the opposite ordering.

https://www.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1jgepoi/those_of_you_who_have_replaced_a_drawband_on_an/

Remington 5: Learning how to replace feed rollers by [[Just My Typewriter]]

The Texas Bucket List - The Typewriter Repairman

How a Mechanical Typewriter Works by [[Animagraffs]]

https://www.gates.com/us/en.html

Sells belts including v-belts which might be used for typewriter repair parts.

The Hermes 3000 repair manual has a really good section on type alignment including tools, according to Joe Van Cleave. (9:17)

https://www.vescovorestauri.it/

Alessio Vescovo looks like he does typewriter restoration and recovers platens in Europe (Italy) as well: https://www.vescovorestauri.it/laboratorio/european-typewriter-platen-recovery-service/

Found via https://typewriterdatabase.com/1956-underwood-de-luxe.24945.typewriter

https://old.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/w1k8lq/vintage_typewriter_repair_resources/

Triumph Adler Tippa / Tippa S / Contessa De Luxe Service Manual - T.A. Vertriebs-GmbH Nürnberg<br /> by [[T.A. Vertriebs-GmbH Nürnberg]]

https://old.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/16s3u8o/i_found_this_cool_service_guid_in_one_of_my/

I read this as a mixture of mineral spirits, Blue Creeper and a bit of gun oil which is applied after cleaning as a means of lubricating a typewriter.

Typewriter Chicago / Lucas Dul rates: - Diagnosis for $20 - Manuals: general cleaning and service: $165 - repairs at $65/hour plus parts - average job on manuals runs around $400 - teardowns and restorations billed purely hourly around $55/hour

This example is $1,100 for 5 hours of frame/welding work and 15 hours of tear down, cleaning and re-assembly. He'll likely go 4 hours over, but is discounting it.

‘We’d be stuck’: alarm as UK’s last braille typewriter repairer ponders retirement by [[Matthew Weaver]]

Virtual Hermans - Lucas Dul

Lucas Dul does an overview of affordable and available tools for typewriter repair as well as more advanced

Basic Tools

• screwdriver sets
  • Carpenter screwdrivers (come to a point) the point can slip and causecam out screws
  • Hollow ground - provide the most amount of torque and prevent cam-out problems (also called gunsmith He uses the 0623 Chapman set (the number is the date of international typewriter day) The large tip can be problematic
  • long reach screwdriver
  • magnetic screwdriver
  • tempered stainless steel ruler (as a screwdriver, especially
  • microdrivers (usually used for eyeglasses or electronics)
• spring hooks (push/pull)
  • Fixture from an embroidery set with length for getting length
  • grab hooks
• pliers
  • standard needle nose pliers
  • 45-90 degree pliers (he uses more often)
  • wire cutters (for modifying springs in machines and modifying links in machines)
  • parallel draw pieces (with heavy duty cutters)
• Mechanics' wrench set
  • prefer cast ones
  • socket screwdrivers (fixed hex screwdriver) expecially for shift adjustment on the Royal Ps
  • Chapman's has a mini rachet 1/4" socket in it's 0623 set
• Forceps especially a long pair for IBM Selectrics (via Duane Jensen)
• Tweezers
• Blowtorches
  • alcohol torches (for heating and bending metal)
  • soldering, brazing, and heat shrinking
  • small butane torch (cigarette lighter use)
• Oilers with needlepoint applicator (he uses sewing machine oil)
  • One can use the surface tension of the oil to place a dot on the tip of a scewdriver (flat head) and then place the dot within a machine with reasonable precision
• MIG Pliers - have cutouts for taking rubber off of old feedrollers (otherwise these pliers are used for welding); he describes it as the nutcracker of the typewriter world
• strap wrench (especially for removing platen knobs to prevent damage)
• knife (butter knife)
  • razor blade for trimming rubber (otherwise too thin for other applications)
• flashlight (simple is fine)
• marker (Sharpie)
  • marking orientation of removed parts (washes off with alcohol)
• hammer
• retainer clip pliers (especially for IBMs, Brothers, Swintecs) with spare e- and c-clips (some have thumbscrews for minimizing damage to clips) openers are more useful than "closers"
• Bristol wrenches - looks like Allen Keys, but with star cross section for bristol locks in IBM machines
• Hand crank (for IBM Selectrics) thread into the operational cam shaft

Intermediate Tools

• segment bearing rod (good for removing individual typebars)
• drinking straw for ball bearings on royal portables and S-C portables and flat tops staggered 1/2" ball bearings with orbital gear (star-shaped) - snip opposite sides to insert orbital ring and ball bearing for holding and placement in typewriter
• carpenter's pencil for marking

Advanced/Specialty tools

• t-bender for forming metal (exp. thin pieces)
• 9 jaw pliers for bending typebars
• peening pliers (for manipulating and stretching materials)
• wheel benders (he doesn't use often)
• eyelete tool for putting eyelets in typewritter ribbon
• files (small/cheap) widen gaps inside of type guides when necessary or thinning out tight pieces

Very specialized

• Type slug solder jig or solder guide (30:52)
• keyring pliers ($400 and above to purchase)
• multimeter for checking circuit components on electric models. Primarily using Ohm setting to see if current is passing through parts, otherwise they're broken.

Honorable mentions

• center punch for drilling points and new screws
• dental mirror for looking into machines
• spring gauge to set 2lbs for desktop and 1lb for portables

Q&A

air compressors are useful for cleaning

Don't damage screws on older machines.

US used imperial screws until 1940/50s and machines after are all metric.

3 dessert island tools<br /> - screwdrivers, pliers, spring hook

Royal Quiet Deluxe Typewriter Cuts Off Top of Letters Ribbon Lift Adjusted, Repaired Character Print by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

If the tops of one or two individual letters is being cut off, it may require forming of the letter's assembly to have it engage with ribbon lift bar a tad earlier.

This is different in form from an on feet adjustment.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/BrooksawAntiques<br /> Adam of Brooksaw Antiques<br /> Indicates 5 years of typewriter repair experience in an individual listing from eBay.

(Some summary of ring & cylinder adjustments based on other notes)

A new platen in many cases will help to solve some of the proximal problem, but you'll still have heavy wear on your paper/ribbon and your new platen over time as a result. The first adjustments a pro typewriter repair person would make after installing a new platen would be to check the ring & cylinder, on feet, and motion which can all be subtly out of alignment with a new platen.

Pretty much every typewriter in modern era has adjustment points for this. All three of the machines you name definitely do. You'll find some of the basics and adjustment points for several machines described at https://typewriterdatabase.com/1945-AMES-OAMI-MechanicalTrainingMan.v1-ringcylinder.manual. If you look at the manuals for specific machines that Ted Munk has collected at the typewriterdatabase.com, you'll find how/where to make those adjustments. Several on Polt's website describe the adjustment as well: https://site.xavier.edu/polt/typewriters/tw-manuals.html#servicemanuals

Some sources may describe the adjustment as hammer and anvil as opposed to ring and cylinder.

You're also likely to find YouTube videos on them as well (I'd check Phoenix Typewriter's channel first, though I do recall he mislabeled one once on a S-C Skyriter which was really an on feet/motion adjustment.) Duane's also got a really subtle and uncommon adjustment on a Royal QDL here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOET0i3DsR8

Gerren gives an adjustment nod for the Olympia SM series here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2jnC6ODB834&t=670s And here's a blogpost about the adjustment points for an Olympia SF: https://ber10thal.com/blog/repairing-a-1961-olympia-sf/

Related blogposts from Munk for a Brother JP-1:

• https://munk.org/typecast/2022/01/23/adjusting-ring-cylinder-on-a-brother-jp-1/
• https://munk.org/typecast/2013/07/30/typewriter-repair-101-adjusting-vertical-typeface-alignment-segmentbasket-shift-typewriters/

Hopefully your machines and hardware appreciate the finer adjustments and wear better over time as a result.

Happy typing!

via https://old.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1hc2olg/royalite_64_replacement_draw_band/

Easy access to your Super-Riter and later Typewriters – To Type, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth… by [[Ted Munk]]

CaiKleen™ RBR - CAIG by Caig Laboratories, Inc.

via https://reddit.com/user/k1lky/ at How can I cork my platen? And if it's the same than rubber. : r/typewriters

Smith Corona Vintage Typewriter Margin Rack Alignment Stop Adjustment by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

https://www.clicketyclacktypewriters.com/

Rolla typewriter enthusiasts open store for those enchanted by the 'clickety clack' by [[Jonathan Ahl]]

Retired collector turned repair person

https://typewriterdatabase.com/img/g17557_111429_1643735948.jpg

https://www.austintypewriterink.com/typewriters-201-general-maintenance.html

https://www.mohawk-finishing.com/products/wood-touch-up-repair/fillers/fil-stik-putty-sticks/

Putty sticks (aka paint sticks) are good for filling in nicks and dings on furniture.

These putty sticks and some crayons are also great for restoring the colored index lines on typewriters as well as other colored metal parts and occasionally on some plastic typewriter keys.

M231-10104 SYY Red<br /> M230-0054 Crimson Rose #SN292<br /> M230-0046 COCONUT, COTTON, BRIE, HEAVY CREAM, SNOWFLAKE <br /> M230-0090 Picket Fence

Typewriter Basics: Carriage Locks by [[Sarah Everett]] of [[Just My Typewriter]]

Sarah describes having a common spacebar issue when repairing a typewriter, bending the spacebar down which causes the machine not to work/advance as a result when it's put back into the typewriter shell.

Sarah also shows some type bar benders, but doesn't demonstrate how she (or her father) used them to do the repair.

Royal Strengthen Shift Springs KMM Typewriter by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

I picked this up from a repair manual, but good to see my reading was correct.

Forming the tabs on the shift assembly inwards will increase the tension and responsiveness of the shift assembly on older Royal standard typewriters.

Royal Typewriter Shift Operation Full Motion Visual Aid by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

Shift adjustment points and shift assembly on Royal portable typewriters

While Zippo lighter fluid (Naphtha) is a bit more expensive per ounce than other solvents (mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, et al), it does usually come packaged in a dispensing container that may make it easier to dispense in a directed method into the internals of typewriters for cleaning them out.

The other benefit is that some may have it on hand for general household use without needing to make a separate trip to the hardware store.

via, but not really directly suggested by https://old.reddit.com/r/typewriters/comments/1g9ntnj/lubricant_reccomendations/

The hardest part of typewriter repair is believing you can do it. Everything else is just instructions plus a careful, thoughtful hand.<br /> —Theodore Munk

Royal KMM KMG Typewriter Feet Spacers Original Smashed Rubber Replaced by [[Phoenix Typewriter]]

Squished rubber feet spacers on the Royal standard typewriters can cause interfere with the universal bar and when they do, they'll need replacement.

This is the same sort of interference seen on Olympia SM3s due to their squished/flattened rubber gaskets, though the symptoms are different.

"Phoenix typewriter. Have a Royal day!" <br /> A slightly different sign off from Duane's usual... :)