I FEEL LIKE THIS MATTERS BUT DO NOT KNOW WHY/HOW

ANGER ACCORDING TO HOOKS IS HOW RIGHT?

CONNECTS TO BODIES, BUT I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE FIRST PART.

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN LOOKING AT WHAT COLONIALSIM IS

SETTLER COLONIALISM

SUPER IMPORTANT

Like those of the body with people

SUPER IMPORTANT - could this connect to to Sara Ahmed?

Get over the fear of difference.

like how women were seen as weird things to study but really it all makes sense.

like how women were seen as weird things to study but really it all makes sense.

Sounds interesting, but what would that look like? - also this is why we have more than one feminism i feel like botany is a metaphor for feminism

THIS is why context and understanding the history is important.

This is also why it is important to why we have more than one kind of feminism.

The combination of ONT and Illumina is great - I wondered if you have found a tradeoff of trying to maximise finding diversity, i.e., reads that have differences, but also minimize retaining reads with sequencing errors that look artificially dissimilar. Presumably, walking the line between the two is critical to not over-inflating diversity estimates and retaining only confident 'true' standing diversity - I would love to know more about how you navigate this!

for - AI - Alien Intelligence, not Artificial Intelligence - It is not an Artifact that we create and control

See also similar property https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P12855 for Bibliotheca Hertziana Fotothek OBJ ID (semantically similar, not PID but URL)

Directive set_fact is very useful for decomposing your tasks and sending proper input to them thus using handlers like functions with dynamic parameters. You can just register result of the set fact into reg-variable and then notify handler. It will be available at the handler like "{{ reg-variable.ansible_facts.one_fact }}".

This "register-notify" construct works for any task but not every task returns the output you wish to see at handlers.

You can also add vars: for the block: these vars will be available for all tasks of the block. But you can't add the same listen to all tasks at the block level: you'll have to add it on a per-task basis.

In recent versions loop is more preferred than with_items but the idea is the same: you can use handlers via notify to trigger multiple actions per item in the loop. You just need to place same listen value to all needed handlers to run them all. These handlers can be even decomposed into different files if you want. Just include them in the main file to actually register them.

Часто, не понимая принципов работы искусственного интеллекта, студенты склонны безоговорочно доверять его ответам. Автор подчеркивает необходимость обучения студентов критическому мышлению при работе с ИИ, а также, что еще важнее, – осознанию силы и возможностей собственного разума.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

This research group has consistently performed cutting-edge research aiming to understand the role of hormones in the control of social behaviors, specifically by utilizing the genetically-tractable teleost fish, medaka, and the current work is no exception. The overall claim they make, that estrogens modulate social behaviors in males is supported, with important caveats. For one, there is no evidence these estrogens are generated by "neurons" as would be assumed by their main claim that it is NEUROestrogens that drive this effect. While indeed the aromatase they have investigated is expressed solely in the brain, in most teleosts, brain aromatase is only present in glial cells (astrocytes, radial glia). The authors should change this description so as not to mislead the reader. Below I detail more specific strengths and weaknesses of this manuscript.

Strengths:

Excellent use of the medaka model to disentangle the control of social behavior by sex steroid hormones

The findings are strong for the most part because deficits in the mutants are restored by the molecule (estrogens) that was no longer present due to the mutation

Presentation of the approach and findings are clear, allowing the reader to make their own inferences and compare them with the authors'

Includes multiple follow-up experiments, which leads to tests of internal replication and an impactful mechanistic proposal

Findings are provocative not just for teleost researchers, but for other species since, as the authors point out, the data suggest mechanisms of estrogenic control of social behaviors may be evolutionary ancient

Weaknesses:

The experimental design for studying aggression in males has flaws, but it appears a typical resident-intruder type assay is not appropriate for medaka. seems other species may be better for studying aggression in teleosts.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

Summary:

This research group has consistently performed cutting-edge research aiming to understand the role of hormones in the control of social behaviors, specifically by utilizing the genetically-tractable teleost fish, medaka, and the current work is no exception. The overall claim they make, that estrogens modulate social behaviors in males and females is supported, with important caveats. For one, there is no evidence these estrogens are generated by "neurons" as would be assumed by their main claim that it is NEUROestrogens that drive this effect. While indeed the aromatase they have investigated is expressed solely in the brain, in most teleosts, brain aromatase is only present in glial cells (astrocytes, radial glia). The authors should change this description so as not to mislead the reader. Below I detail more specific strengths and weaknesses of this manuscript.

We thank the reviewer for this positive evaluation of our work and for the helpful comments and suggestions. Regarding the concern that the term “neuroestrogens” may be misleading, we addressed this in the previous revision by consistently replacing it throughout the manuscript with “brain-derived estrogens” or “brain estrogens.”

In addition, the following sentence was added to the Introduction (line 61): “In teleost brains, including those of medaka, aromatase is exclusively localized in radial glial cells, in contrast to its neuronal localization in rodent brains (Forlano et al., 2001; Diotel et al., 2010; Takeuchi and Okubo, 2013).”

Strenghth:

Excellent use of the medaka model to disentangle the control of social behavior by sex steroid hormones 

The findings are strong for the most part because deficits in the mutants are restored by the molecule (estrogens) that was no longer present due to the mutation 

Presentation of the approach and findings are clear, allowing the reader to make their own inferences and compare them with the authors' 

Includes multiple follow-up experiments, which leads to tests of internal replication and an impactful mechanistic proposal 

Findings are provocative not just for teleost researchers, but for other species since, as the authors point out, the data suggest mechanisms of estrogenic control of social behaviors may be evolutionary ancient 

We thank the reviewer again for their positive evaluation of our work.

Weakness:

As stated in the summary, the authors are attributing the estrogen source to neurons and there isn't evidence this is the case. The impact of the findings doesn't rest on this either

As mentioned above, we addressed this in the previous revision by replacing “neuroestrogens” with “brain-derived estrogens” or “brain estrogens” throughout the manuscript. In addition, the following sentence was added to the Introduction (line 61): “In teleost brains, including those of medaka, aromatase is exclusively localized in radial glial cells, in contrast to its neuronal localization in rodent brains (Forlano et al., 2001; Diotel et al., 2010; Takeuchi and Okubo, 2013).”

The d4 versus d8 esr2a mutants showed different results for aggression. The meaning and implications of this finding are not discussed, leaving the reader wondering

This comment is the same as one raised in the first review (Reviewer #1’s comment 2 on weaknesses), which we already addressed in our initial revision. For the reviewer’s convenience, we provide the response below:

Line 300: As the reviewer correctly noted, circles were significantly reduced in mutant males of the Δ8 line, whereas no significant reduction was observed in those of the Δ4 line. However, a tendency toward reduction was evident in the Δ4 line (P = 0.1512), and both lines showed significant differences in fin displays. Based on these findings, we believe our conclusion that esr2a^−/− males exhibit reduced aggression remains valid. To clarify this point and address potential reader concerns, we have revised the text as follows: “esr2a^−/− males exhibited significantly fewer fin displays (P = 0.0461 and 0.0293 for Δ8 and Δ4 lines, respectively) and circles (P = 0.0446 and 0.1512 for Δ8 and Δ4 lines, respectively) than their wild-type siblings (Fig. 5L; Fig. S8E), suggesting less aggression” was edited to read “esr2a^−/− males from both the Δ8 and Δ4 lines exhibited significantly fewer fin displays than their wild-type siblings (P = 0.0461 and 0.0293, respectively). Circles followed a similar pattern, with a significant reduction in the Δ8 line (P = 0.0446) and a comparable but non-significant decrease in the Δ4 line (P =0.1512) (Figure 5L, Figure 5—figure supplement 3E), showing less aggression.”

Lack of attribution of previous published work from other research groups that would provide the proper context of the present study

This comment is also the same as one raised in the first review (Reviewer #1’s comment 3 on weaknesses). In our previous revision, in response to this comment, we cited the relevant references (Hallgren et al., 2006; O’Connell and Hofmann, 2012; Huffman et al., 2013; Jalabert et al., 2015; Yong et al., 2017; Alward et al., 2020; Ogino et al., 2023) in the appropriate sections. We also added the following new references and revised the Introduction and Discussion accordingly:

(2) Alward BA, Laud VA, Skalnik CJ, York RA, Juntti SA, Fernald RD. 2020. Modular genetic control of social status in a cichlid fish. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 117:28167–28174. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2008925117

(39) O’Connell LA, Hofmann HA. 2012. Social status predicts how sex steroid receptors regulate complex behavior across levels of biological organization. Endocrinology 153:1341–1351. DOI:https://doi.org/10.1210/en.2011-1663

(54) Yong L, Thet Z, Zhu Y. 2017. Genetic editing of the androgen receptor contributes to impaired male courtship behavior in zebrafish. Journal of Experimental Biology 220:3017–3021.DOI:https://doi.org/10.1242/jeb.161596

There are a surprising number of citations not included; some of the ones not included argue against the authors' claims that their findings were "contrary to expectation"

In our previous revision, we cited the relevant references (Hallgren et al., 2006; O’Connell and Hofmann, 2012; Huffman et al., 2013; Jalabert et al., 2015) in the Introduction. We also revised the text to remove phrases such as “contrary to expectation” and “unexpected.”

The experimental design for studying aggression in males has flaws. A standard test like a residentintruder test should be used.

Following this comment, we have attempted additional aggression assays using the resident-intruder paradigm. However, these experiments did not produce consistent or interpretable results. As noted in our previous revision, medaka naturally form shoals and exhibit weak territoriality, and even slight differences in dominance between a resident and an intruder can markedly increase variability, reducing data reliability. Therefore, we believe that the approach used in the present study provides a more suitable assessment of aggression in medaka, regardless of territorial tendencies. We will continue to explore potential refinements in future studies and respectfully ask the reviewer to evaluate the present work based on the assay used here.

While they investigate males and females, there are fewer experiments and explanations for the female results, making it feel like a small addition or an aside

While we did not adopt this comment in our previous revision, we have carefully reconsidered the reviewers’ feedback and have now decided to remove the female data. This change allows us to present a more focused and cohesive story centered on males. The specific revisions are outlined below:

Abstract

Line 25: The text “, thereby revealing a previously unappreciated mode of action of brain-derived estrogens. We additionally show that female fish lacking Cyp19a1b are less receptive to male courtship and conversely court other females, highlighting the significance of brain-derived estrogens in establishing sex-typical behaviors in both sexes.” has been revised to “. Taken together, these findings reveal a previously unappreciated mode of action of brain-derived estrogens in shaping male-typical behaviors.”

Results

Line 88: The text “Loss of cyp19a1b function in these fish was verified by measuring brain and peripheral levels of sex steroids. As expected, brain estradiol-17β (E2) in both male and female homozygous mutants (cyp19a1b^−/−) was significantly reduced to 16% and 50%, respectively, of the levels in their wild-type (cyp19a1b^+/+) siblings (P = 0.0037, males; P = 0.0092, females) (Fig. 1, A and B). In males, brain E2 in heterozygotes (cyp19a1b^−/−) was also reduced to 45% of the level in wild-type siblings (P = 0.0284) (Fig. 1A), indicating a dosage effect of cyp19a1b mutation. In contrast, peripheral E2 levels were unaltered in both cyp19a1b^−/− males and females (Fig. S1, C and D), consistent with the expected functioning of Cyp19a1b primarily in the brain. Strikingly, brain levels of testosterone, as opposed to E2, increased 2.2-fold in cyp19a1b^−/− males relative to wild-type siblings (P = 0.0006) (Fig. 1A). Similarly, brain 11KT levels in cyp19a1b^−/− males and females increased 6.2- and 1.9-fold, respectively, versus wild-type siblings (P = 0.0007, males; P = 0.0316, females) (Fig. 1, A and B). These results show that cyp19a1b-deficient fish have reduced estrogen levels coupled with increased androgen levels in the brain, confirming the loss of cyp19a1b function. They also suggest that the majority of estrogens in the male brain and half of those in the female brain are synthesized locally in the brain. In addition, peripheral 11KT levels in cyp19a1b^−/− males and females increased 3.7- and 1.8-fold, respectively (P = 0.0789, males; P = 0.0118, females) (Fig. S1, C and D), indicating peripheral influence in addition to central effects.” has been revised to “Loss of cyp19a1b function in these fish was verified by measuring brain and peripheral levels of sex steroids in males. As expected, brain estradiol-17β (E2) in homozygous mutants (cyp19a1b^−/−) was significantly reduced to 16% of the levels in wild-type (cyp19a1b^+/+) siblings (P = 0.0037) (Figure 1A). Brain E2 in heterozygotes (cyp19a1b^+/−) was also reduced to 45% of wild-type levels (P = 0.0284) (Figure 1A), indicating a dosage effect of the cyp19a1b mutation. In contrast, peripheral E2 levels were unaltered in cyp19a1b^−/− males (Figure 1B), consistent with the expected functioning of Cyp19a1b primarily in the brain. Strikingly, brain testosterone levels, as opposed to E2, increased 2.2-fold in cyp19a1b^−/− males relative to wild-type siblings (P = 0.0006) (Figure 1A). Similarly, brain 11KT levels increased 6.2-fold (P = 0.0007) (Figure 1A). These results indicate that cyp19a1b-deficient males have reduced estrogen coupled with elevated androgen levels in the brain, confirming the loss of cyp19a1b function. They also suggest that the majority of estrogens in the male brain are synthesized locally in the brain. Peripheral 11KT levels also increased 3.7-fold in cyp19a1b^−/− males (P = 0.0789) (Figure 1B), indicating peripheral influence in addition to central effects.”

Line 211: “expression of vt in the pNVT of cyp19a1b^−/− males was significantly reduced to 18% as compared with cyp19a1b^+/+ males (P = 0.0040), a level comparable to that observed in females” has been revised to “expression of vt in the pNVT of cyp19a1b^−/− males was significantly reduced to 18% as compared with cyp19a1b^+/+ males (P = 0.0040).”

The subsection entitled “cyp19a1b-deficient females are less receptive to males and instead court other females,” which followed line 311, has been removed.

Discussion

The two paragraphs between lines 373 and 374, which addressed the female data, have been removed.

Materials and methods

Line 433: “males and females” has been changed to “males”.

Line 457: “focal fish” has been changed to “focal male”.

Line 458: “stimulus fish” has been changed to “stimulus female”.

Line 458: “Fig. 6, E and F, ” has been deleted.

Line 460: “; wild-type males in Fig. 6, A to C” has been deleted.

Line 466: The text “The period of interaction/recording was extended to 2 hours in tests of courtship displays received from the stimulus esr2b-deficient female and in tests of mating behavior between females, because they take longer to initiate courtship (12). In tests using an esr2b-deficient female as the stimulus fish, where the latency to spawn could not be calculated because these fish were unreceptive to males and did not spawn, the sexual motivation of the focal fish was instead assessed by counting the number of courtship displays and wrapping attempts in 30 min. The number of these mating acts was also counted in tests to evaluate the receptivity of females. In tests of mating behavior between two females, the stimulus female was marked with a small notch in the caudal fin to distinguish it from the focal female.” has been revised to “In tests using an esr2b-deficient female as the stimulus fish, the latency to spawn could not be calculated because the female was unreceptive to males and did not spawn. Therefore, the sexual motivation of the focal male was assessed by counting the number of courtship displays and wrapping attempts in 30 min. To evaluate courtship displays performed by stimulus esr2bdeficient females toward focal males, the recording period was extended to 2 hours, as these females take longer to initiate courtship (Nishiike et al., 2021). In all video analyses, the researcher was blind to the fish genotype and treatment.”

Line 499: “brains dissected from males and females of the cyp19a1b-deficient line (analysis of ara, arb, vt, gal, npba, and esr2b) and males of the esr1-, esr2a-, and esr2b-deficient lines” has been revised to “male brains from the cyp19a1b-deficient line (analysis of ara, arb, vt, and gal) and from the esr1-, esr2a-, and esr2b-deficient lines.”

Line 504: “After color development for 15 min (gal), 40 min (npba), 2 hours (vt), or overnight (ara, arb, and esr2b)” has been revised to “After color development for 15 min (gal), 2 hours (vt), or overnight (ara and arb).”

Line 516: “Thermo Fisher Scientific, Waltham, MA” has been changed to “Thermo Fisher Scientific” to avoid redundancy.

Line 565: The subsection entitled “Measurement of spatial distances between fish” has been removed.

Line 585: “6/10 cyp19a1b^+/+, 3/10 cyp19a1b^+/−, and 6/10 cyp19a1b^−/− females were excluded in Fig. 6B;” has been deleted.

References

The following references have been removed:

Capel B. 2017. Vertebrate sex determination: evolutionary plasticity of a fundamental switch. Nature Reviews Genetics 18:675–689. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1038/nrg.2017.60

Hiraki T, Nakasone K, Hosono K, Kawabata Y, Nagahama Y, Okubo K. 2014. Neuropeptide B is femalespecifically expressed in the telencephalic and preoptic nuclei of the medaka brain. Endocrinology 155:1021–1032. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1210/en.2013-1806

Juntti SA, Hilliard AT, Kent KR, Kumar A, Nguyen A, Jimenez MA, Loveland JL, Mourrain P, Fernald RD. 2016. A neural basis for control of cichlid female reproductive behavior by prostaglandin F2α. Current Biology 26:943–949. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.067

Kimchi T, Xu J, Dulac C. 2007. A functional circuit underlying male sexual behaviour in the female mouse brain. Nature 448:1009–1014. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1038/nature06089

Kobayashi M, Stacey N. 1993. Prostaglandin-induced female spawning behavior in goldfish (Carassius auratus) appears independent of ovarian influence. Hormones and Behavior 27:38–55.

DOI:https://doi.org/10.1006/hbeh.1993.1004

Liu H, Todd EV, Lokman PM, Lamm MS, Godwin JR, Gemmell NJ. 2017. Sexual plasticity: a fishy tale. Molecular Reproduction and Development 84:171–194. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1002/mrd.22691

Munakata A, Kobayashi M. 2010. Endocrine control of sexual behavior in teleost fish. General and Comparative Endocrinology 165:456–468. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ygcen.2009.04.011

Nugent BM, Wright CL, Shetty AC, Hodes GE, Lenz KM, Mahurkar A, Russo SJ, Devine SE, McCarthy MM. 2015. Brain feminization requires active repression of masculinization via DNA methylation. Nature Neuroscience 18:690–697. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1038/nn.3988

Shaw K, Therrien M, Lu C, Liu X, Trudeau VL. 2023. Mutation of brain aromatase disrupts spawning behavior and reproductive health in female zebrafish. Frontiers in Endocrinology 14:1225199.

DOI:https://doi.org/10.3389/fendo.2023.1225199

Stacey NE. 1976. Effects of indomethacin and prostaglandins on the spawning behaviour of female goldfish. Prostaglandins 12:113–126. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/s0090-6980(76)80010-x

Figure 1

Panel B, which originally showed steroid levels in female brains, has been replaced with steroid levels in the periphery of males, originally presented in Figure S1, panel C. Accordingly, the legend “(A and B) Levels of E2, testosterone, and 11KT in the brain of adult cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, and cyp19a1b^−/− males (A) and females (B) (n = 3 per genotype and sex).” has been revised to “(A, B) Levels of E2, testosterone, and 11KT in the brain (A) and periphery (B) of adult cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, and cyp19a1b^−/− males (n = 3 per genotype).”

Figure 3

The female data have been deleted from Figure 3. The revised Figure 3 is presented.

The corresponding legend text has been revised as follows:

Line 862: “males and females (n = 4 and 5 per genotype for males and females, respectively)” has been changed to “males (n = 4 per genotype)”.

Line 864: “males and females (n = 4 except for cyp19a1b^+/+ males, where n = 3)” has been changed to “males (n = 3 and 4, respectively)”.

Figure 6

Figure 6 and its legend have been removed.

Figure 1—figure supplement 1

Panel C, showing male data, has been moved to Figure 1B, as described above, while panel D, showing female data, has been deleted. The corresponding legend “(C and D) Levels of E2, testosterone, and 11KT in the periphery of adult cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, and cyp19a1b^−/− males (C) and females (D) (n = 3 per genotype and sex). Statistical differences were assessed by Bonferroni’s post hoc test (C and D). Error bars represent SEM. *P < 0.05.” has also been removed.

Line 804: Following this change, the figure title has been updated from “Generation of cyp19a1bdeficient medaka and evaluation of peripheral sex steroid levels” to “Generation of cyp19a1b-deficient medaka.”

The statistics comparing "experimental to experimental" and "control to experimental" isn't appropriate 

This comment is the same as one raised in the first review (Reviewer #1’s comment 7 on weaknesses), which we already addressed in our initial revision. For the reviewer’s convenience, we provide the response below:

The reviewer raised concerns about the statistical analysis used for Figures 4C and 4E, suggesting that Bonferroni’s test should be used instead of Dunnett’s test. However, Dunnett’s test is commonly used to compare treatment groups to a reference group that receives no treatment, as in our study. Since we do not compare the treated groups with each other, we believe Dunnett’s test is the most appropriate choice.

Line 576: The reviewer’s concern may have arisen from the phrase “comparisons between control and experimental groups” in the Materials and methods. We have revised it to “comparisons between untreated and E2-treated groups in Figure 4C and D” for clarity.

Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

Summary:

Taking advantage of the existence in fish of two genes coding for estrogen synthase, the enzyme aromatase, one mostly expressed in the brain (Cyp19a1b) and the other mostly found in the gonads (Cyp19a1a), this study investigates the role of brain-derived estrogens in the control of sexual and aggressive behavior in medaka. The constitutive deletion of Cyp19a1b markedly reduced brain estrogen content in males and to a lesser extent in females. These effects are accompanied by reduced sexual and aggressive behavior in males and reduced preference for males in females. These effects are reversed by adult treatment with supporting a role for estrogens. The deletion of Cyp19a1b is associated with a reduced expression of the genes coding for the two androgen receptors, ara and arb, in brain regions involved in the regulation of social behavior. The analysis of the gene expression and behavior of mutants of estrogen receptors indicates that these effects are likely mediated by the activation of the esr1 and esr2a isoforms. These results provide valuable insight into the role of estrogens in social behavior in the most abundant vertebrate taxon, however the conclusion of brain-derived estrogens awaits definitive confirmation.

We thank this reviewer for their positive evaluation of our work and comments that have improved the manuscript.

Strength:

Evaluation of the role of brain "specific" Cyp19a1 in male teleost fish, which as a taxon are more abundant and yet proportionally less studied that the most common birds and rodents. Therefore, evaluating the generalizability of results from higher vertebrates is important. This approach also offers great potential to study the role of brain estrogen production in females, an understudied question in all taxa.

Results obtained from multiple mutant lines converge to show that estrogen signaling, likely synthesized in the brain drives aspects of male sexual behavior.

The comparative discussion of the age-dependent abundance of brain aromatase in fish vs mammals and its role in organization vs activation is important beyond the study of the targeted species.  - The authors have made important corrections to tone down some of the conclusions which are more in line with the results. 

We thank the reviewer again for their positive evaluation of our work and the revisions we have made.

weaknesses:

No evaluation of the mRNA and protein products of Cyp19a1b and ESR2a are presented, such that there is no proper demonstration that the mutation indeed leads to aromatase reduction. The conclusion that these effects dependent on brain derived estrogens is therefore only supported by measures of E2 with an EIA kit that is not validated. No discussion of these shortcomings is provided in the discussion thus further weakening the conclusion manuscript.

In response to this and other comments, we have now provided direct validation that the cyp19a1b mutation in our medaka leads to loss of function. Real-time PCR analysis showed that cyp19a1b transcript levels in the brain were reduced by approximately half in cyp19a1b^+/− males and were nearly absent in cyp19a1b^−/− males, consistent with nonsense-mediated mRNA decay

In addition, AlphaFold 3-based structural modeling indicated that the mutant Cyp19a1b protein lacks essential motifs, including the aromatic region and heme-binding loop, and exhibits severe conformational distortion (see figure; key structural features are annotated as follows: membrane helix (blue), aromatic region (red), and heme-binding loop (orange)). 

Results:

Line 101: The following text has been added: “Loss of cyp19a1b function was further confirmed by measuring cyp19a1b transcript levels in the brain and by predicting the three-dimensional structure of the mutant protein. Real-time PCR revealed that transcript levels were reduced by half in cyp19a1b^+/− males and were nearly undetectable in cyp19a1b^−/− males, presumably as a result of nonsense-mediated mRNA decay (Lindeboom et al., 2019) (Figure 1C). The wild-type protein, modeled by AlphaFold 3, exhibited a typical cytochrome P450 fold, including the membrane helix, aromatic region, and hemebinding loop, all arranged in the expected configuration (Figure 1—figure supplement 1C). The mutant protein, in contrast, was severely truncated, retaining only the membrane helix (Figure 1—figure supplement 1C). The absence of essential domains strongly indicates that the allele encodes a nonfunctional Cyp19a1b protein. Together, transcript and structural analyses consistently demonstrate that the mutation generated in this study causes a complete loss of cyp19a1b function.”

Materials and methods

Line 438: A subsection entitled “Real-time PCR” has been added. The text of this subsection is as follows: “Total RNA was isolated from the brains of cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, and cyp19a1b^−/− males using the RNeasy Plus Universal Mini Kit (Qiagen, Hilden, Germany). cDNA was synthesized with the SuperScript VILO cDNA Synthesis Kit (Thermo Fisher Scientific, Waltham, MA). Real-time PCR was performed on the LightCycler 480 System II using the LightCycler 480 SYBR Green I Master (Roche Diagnostics). Melting curve analysis was conducted to verify that a single amplicon was obtained in each sample. The β-actin gene (actb; GenBank accession number NM_001104808) was used to normalize the levels of target transcripts. The primers used for real-time PCR are shown in Supplementary file 2.”

Line 448: A subsection entitled “Protein structure prediction” has been added. The text of this subsection is as follows: “Structural predictions of Cyp19a1b proteins were conducted using AlphaFold 3 (Abramson et al., 2024). Amino acid sequences corresponding to the wild-type allele and the mutant allele generated in this study were submitted to the AlphaFold 3 prediction server. The resulting models were visualized with PyMOL (Schrödinger, New York, NY), and key structural features, including the membrane helix, aromatic region, and heme-binding loop, were annotated.”

References

The following two references have been added:

Abramson J, Adler J, Dunger J, Evans R, Green T, Pritzel A, Ronneberger O, Willmore L, Ballard AJ, Bambrick J, Bodenstein SW, Evans DA, Hung CC, O'Neill M, Reiman D, Tunyasuvunakool K, Wu Z, Žemgulytė A, Arvaniti E, Beattie C, Bertolli O, Bridgland A, Cherepanov A, Congreve M, CowenRivers AI, Cowie A, Figurnov M, Fuchs FB, Gladman H, Jain R, Khan YA, Low CMR, Perlin K, Potapenko A, Savy P, Singh S, Stecula A, Thillaisundaram A, Tong C, Yakneen S, Zhong ED, Zielinski M, Žídek A, Bapst V, Kohli P, Jaderberg M, Hassabis D, Jumper JM. 2024. Accurate structure prediction of biomolecular interactions with AlphaFold 3. Nature 630:493–500. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07487-w

Lindeboom RGH, Vermeulen M, Lehner B, Supek F. 2019. The impact of nonsense-mediated mRNA decay on genetic disease, gene editing and cancer immunotherapy. Nature Genetics 51:1645–1651.DOI:https://doi.org/10.1038/s41588-019-0517-5

Figure 1

The real-time PCR results described above have been incorporated in Figure 1, panel C, with the corresponding legend provided below (line 788).

(C) Brain cyp19a1b transcript levels in cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, and cyp19a1b^−/− males (n = 6 per genotype). Mean value for cyp19a1b^+/+ males was arbitrarily set to 1.

The subsequent panels have been renumbered accordingly. The entirety of the revised Figure 1.

Figure 1—figure supplement 1

The AlphaFold 3-generated structural models described above have been incorporated in Figure 1— figure supplement 1, panel C, with the corresponding legend provided below (line 811).

(C) Predicted three-dimensional structures of wild-type (left) and mutant (right) Cyp19a1b proteins. Key structural features are annotated as follows: membrane helix (blue), aromatic region (red), and heme-binding loop (orange).

The entirety of the revised Figure 1—figure supplement 1 is presented

The information on the primers used for real-time PCR has been included in Supplementary file 2.

The functional deficiency of esr2a was already addressed in the previous revision. For clarity, we have reproduced the relevant information here.

A previous study reported that female medaka lacking esr2a fail to release eggs due to oviduct atresia (Kayo et al., 2019, Sci Rep 9:8868). Similarly, in this study, some esr2a-deficient females exhibited spawning behavior but were unable to release eggs, although the sample size was limited (Δ8 line: 2/3; Δ4 line: 1/1). In contrast, this was not observed in wild-type females (Δ8 line: 0/12; Δ4 line: 0/11). These results support the effective loss of esr2a function. To incorporate this information into the manuscript, the following text has been added to the Materials and methods (line 423): “A previous study reported that esr2a-deficient female medaka cannot release eggs due to oviduct atresia (Kayo et al., 2019). Likewise, some esr2a-deficient females generated in this study, despite the limited sample size, exhibited spawning behavior but were unable to release eggs (Δ8 line: 2/3; Δ4 line: 1/1), while such failure was not observed in wild-type females (Δ8 line: 0/12; Δ4 line: 0/11). These results support the effective loss of esr2a function.”

Most experiments are weakly powered (low sample size).

This comment is essentially the same as one raised in the first review (Reviewer #3’s comment 7 on weaknesses). We acknowledge the reviewer’s concern that the histological analyses were weakly powered due to the limited sample size. In our earlier revision, we responded as follows:

Histological analyses were conducted with a relatively small sample size, as our previous experience suggested that interindividual variability in the results would not be substantial. Since significant differences were detected in many analyses, further increasing the sample size was deemed unnecessary.

The variability of the mRNA content for a same target gene between experiments (genotype comparison vs E2 treatment comparison) raises questions about the reproducibility of the data (apparent disappearance of genotype effect).

This comment is the same as one raised in the first review (Reviewer #3’s comment 8 on weaknesses), which we already addressed in our initial revision. For the reviewer’s convenience, we provide the response below:

As the reviewer pointed out, the overall area of ara expression is larger in Figure 2J than in Figure 2F. However, the relative area ratios of ara expression among brain nuclei are consistent between the two figures, indicating the reproducibility of the results. Thus, this difference is unlikely to affect the conclusions of this study.

Additionally, the differences in ara expression in pPPp and arb expression in aPPp between wild-type and cyp19a1b-deficient males appear less pronounced in Figures 2J and 2K than in Figures 2F and 2H. This is likely attributable to the smaller sample size used in the experiments for Figures 2J and 2K, resulting in less distinct differences. However, as the same genotype-dependent trends are observed in both sets of figures, the conclusion that ara and arb expression is reduced in cyp19a1b-deficient male brains remains valid.

Conclusions:

Overall, the claims regarding role of estrogens originating in the brain on male sexual behavior is supported by converging evidence from multiple mutant lines. The role of brain-derived estrogens on gene expression in the brain is weaker as are the results in females. 

We appreciate the reviewer’s positive evaluation of our findings on male behavior. The concern regarding the role of brain-derived estrogens in gene expression has been addressed in our rebuttal, and the female data have been removed so that the analysis now focuses on males. The specific revisions for removing the female data are described in Response to reviewer #1’s comment 6 on weaknesses.

Recommendations For The Authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

The manuscript is improved slightly. I am thankful the authors addressed some concerns, but for several concerns the referees raised, the authors acknowledged them yet did not make corresponding changes to the manuscript or disagreed that they were issues at all without explanation. All reviewers had issues with the imbalanced focus on males versus females and the male aggression assay. Yet, they did not perform additional experiments or even make changes to the framing and scope of the manuscript. If the authors had removed the female data, they may have had a more cohesive story, but then they would still be left with inadequate behavior assays in the males. If the authors don't have the time or resources to perform the additional work, then they should have said so. However, the work would be incomplete relative to the claims. That is a key point here. If they change their scope and claims, the authors avoid overstating their findings. I want to see this work published because I believe it moves the field forward. But the authors need to be realistic in their interpretations of their data. 

In response to this and related comments, we have removed the female data and focused the manuscript on analyses in males. The specific revisions are described in Response to reviewer #1’s comment 6 on weaknesses. Additionally, we have validated that the cyp19a1b mutation in our medaka leads to loss of function (see Response to reviewer #3’s comment 1 on weaknesses), which further strengthens the reliability of our conclusions regarding male behavior.

I agree with the reviewer who said we need to see validation of the absence of functional cyp19a1 b in the brain. However, the results from staining for the protein and performing in situ could be quizzical. Indeed, there aren't antibodies that could distinguish between aromatase a and b, and it is not uncommon for expression of a mutated gene to be normal. One approach they could do is measure aromatase activity, but they are *sort of* doing that by measuring brain E2. It's not perfect, but we teleost folks are limited in these areas. At the very least, they should show the predicted protein structure of the mutated aromatase alleles. It could show clearly that the tertiary structure is utterly absent, giving more support to the fact that their aromatase gene is non-functional. 

As noted above, we have further validated the loss of cyp19a1b function by measuring cyp19a1b transcript levels in the brain and predicting the three-dimensional structure of the mutant protein. These analyses confirmed that cyp19a1b function is indeed lost, thereby increasing the reliability of our conclusions. For further details, please refer to Response to reviewer #3’s comment 1 on weaknesses.

With all of this said, the work is important, and it is possible that with a reframing of the impact of their work in the context of their findings, I could consider the work complete. I think with a proper reframing, the work is still impactful. 

In accordance with this feedback, and as described above, we have reframed the manuscript by removing the female data and focusing exclusively on males. This revision clarifies the scope of our study and reinforces the support for our conclusions. For further details, please refer to Response to reviewer #1’s comment 6 on weaknesses.

(1) Clearly state in the Figure 1 legend that each data point for male aggressive behaviors represents the total # of behaviors calculated over the 4 males in each experimental tank.

In response to this comment, we have revised the legend of Figure 1K (line 797). The original legend, “(K) Total number of each aggressive act observed among cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, or cyp19a1^−/− males in the tank (n = 6, 7, and 5, respectively),” has been updated to “(K) Total number of each aggressive act performed by cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, and cyp19a1b^−/− males. Each data point represents the sum of acts recorded for the 4 males of the same genotype in a single tank (n = 6, 7, and 5 tanks, respectively).” This clarifies that each data point reflects the total behaviors of the 4 males within each tank.

(2) The authors wrote under "Response to reviewer #1's major comment "...the development of male behaviors may require moderate neuroestrogen levels that are sufficient to induce the expression of ara and arb, but not esr2b, in the underlying neural circuitry": "This may account for the lack of aggression recovery in E2-treated cyp19a1b-deficient males in this study.".

What is meant by the latter statement? What accounts for the lack of aggression? The lack of increase in esr2b? Please clarify. 

Line 365: In response to this comment, “This may account for the lack of aggression recovery in E2treated cyp19a1b-deficient males in this study.” has been revised to “Considering this, the lack of aggression recovery in E2-treated cyp19a1b-deficient males in this study may be explained by the possibility that the E2 dose used was sufficient to induce not only ara and arb but also esr2b expression in aggression-relevant circuits, which potentially suppressed aggression.”

This revision clarifies that, while moderate brain estrogen levels are sufficient to promote male behaviors via induction of ara and arb, the E2 dose used in this study may have additionally induced esr2b in circuits relevant to aggression, potentially underlying the lack of aggression recovery.

(3) This is a continuation of my comment/concern directly above. If the induction of ara and arb aren't enough, then how can, as the authors state, androgen signaling be the primary driver of these behaviors? 

In response to this follow-up comment, we would like to clarify that, as described above, the lack of aggression recovery in E2-treated cyp19a1b-deficient males is not due to insufficient induction of ara and arb, but instead is likely because esr2b was also induced in aggression-relevant circuits, which may have suppressed aggression. Therefore, the concern that androgen signaling cannot be the primary driver of these behaviors is not applicable.

(4) The authors' point about sticking with the terminology for the ar genes as "ara" and "arb" is not convincing. The whole point of needing a change to match the field of neuroendocrinology as a whole (that is, across all vertebrates) is researchers, especially those with high standing like the Okubo group, adopt the new terminology. Indeed, the Okubo group is THE leader in medaka neuroendocrinology. It would go a long way if they began adopting the new terminology of "ar1" and "ar2". I understand this may be laborious to a degree, and each group can choose to use their terminology, but I'd be remiss if I didn't express my opinion that changing the terminology could help our field as a whole. 

We sincerely appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comments regarding nomenclature consistency in vertebrate neuroendocrinology. We understand the motivation behind the suggestion to adopt ar1 and ar2. However, we consider the established nomenclature of ara and arb to be more appropriate for the following reasons.

First, adopting the ar1/ar2 nomenclature would introduce a discrepancy between gene and protein symbols. According to the NCBI International Protein Nomenclature Guidelines (Section 2B.Abbreviations and symbols;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/internatprot_nomenguide/), the ZFIN Zebrafish Nomenclature Conventions (Section 2. PROTEINS:https://zfin.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/general/pages/1818394635/ZFIN+Zebrafish+Nomenclature+Con ventions), and the author guidelines of many journal

(e.g.,https://academic.oup.com/molehr/pages/Gene_And_Protein_Nomenclature), gene and protein symbols should be identical (with proteins designated in non-italic font and with the first letter capitalized). Maintaining consistency between gene and protein symbols helps avoid unnecessary confusion. The ara/arb nomenclature allows this, whereas ar1/ar2 does not.

Second, the two androgen receptor genes in teleosts are paralogs derived from the third round of wholegenome duplication that occurred early in teleost evolution. For such duplicated genes, the ZFIN Zebrafish Nomenclature Conventions (Section 1.2. Duplicated genes) recommend appending the suffixes “a” and “b” to the approved symbol of the human or mouse ortholog. This convention clearly indicates that these genes are whole-genome duplication paralogs and provides an intuitive way to represent orthologous and paralogous relationships between teleost genes and those of other vertebrates. As a result, it has been widely adopted, and we consider it logical and beneficial to apply the same principle to androgen receptors.

In light of these considerations, we respectfully maintain that the ara/arb nomenclature is more suitable for the present manuscript than the alternative ar1/ar2 system.

(5) In the discussion please discuss these potentially unexpected findings.

(a) gal was unaffected in female cyp19a1 mutants, but they exhibit mating behaviors towards females. Given gal is higher in males and these females act like females, what does this mean about the function of gal/its utility in being a male-specific marker (is it one??)? 

(b) esr2b expression is higher in female cyp19a1 mutants. this is unexpected as well given esr2b is required for female-typical mating and is higher in females compared to males and E2 increases esr2b expression. please explain...well, what this means for our idea of what esr2b expression tell us. 

We thank the reviewer for the insightful comments. As the female data have been removed from the manuscript, discussion of these findings in female cyp19a1b mutants is no longer necessary.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

The authors have addressed a number of answers to the reviewer's comments, notably they provided missing methodological information and rephrased the text. However, the authors have not addressed the main issues raised by the reviewers. Notably, it is regrettable that the reduced amount of brain aromatase cannot be confirmed, this seems to be the primary step when validating a new mutant. Even if protein products of the two genes may not be discriminated (which I can understand), it should be possible to evaluate the expression of a common messenger and/or peptide and confirm that aromatase expression is reduced in the brain. Since Cyp19a1b is relatively more abundant in the brain Cyp19a1a, this would strengthen the conclusion and provide confidence that the mutant indeed does silence aromatase expression in the brain. Although these short comings are acknowledged in the rebuttal letter, this is not mentioned in the discussion. Doing so would make the manuscript more transparent and clearer. 

As noted in Response to reviewer #3’s comment 1 on weaknesses, we have validated the loss of Cyp19a1b function by measuring its transcript levels in the brain and predicting the three-dimensional structure of the mutant protein. These analyses confirmed that Cyp19a1b function is indeed lost, thereby increasing the reliability of our conclusions.

FigS1 - panels C&D please indicate in which tissue were hormones measured. Blood?

We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. In our study, “peripheral” refers to the caudal half of the body excluding the head and visceral organs, not blood. Accordingly, we have revised the figure legend and the description in the Materials and Methods section as follows:

Legend for Figure 1B (line 787) now reads: “Levels of E2, testosterone, and 11KT in the brain (A) and peripheral tissues (caudal half of the body) (B) of adult cyp19a1b^+/+, cyp19a1b^+/−, and cyp19a1b^−/− males (n = 3 per genotype).”

Materials and methods (line 431): The sentence “Total lipids were extracted from the brain and peripheral tissues (from the caudal half) of” has been revised to “Total lipids were extracted from the brain and from peripheral tissues, specifically the caudal half of the body excluding the head and visceral organs, of.”

Additional Alterations:

We have reformatted the text and supporting materials to comply with the journal’s Author Guidelines. The following changes have been made:

(1) Figures and supplementary files are now provided separately from the main text.

(2) The title page has been reformatted without any changes to its content.

(3) In-text citations have been changed from numerical references to the author–year format.

(4) Figure labels have been revised from “Fig. 1,” “Fig. S1,” etc., to “Figure 1,” “Figure 1—figure supplement 1,” etc.

(5) Table labels have been revised from “Table S1,” etc., to “Supplementary file 1,” etc.

(6) Line 324: The typo “is” has been corrected to “are”.

(7) Line 382: The section heading “Materials and Methods” has been changed to “Materials and methods” (lowercase “m”).

(8) Line 383: The Key Resources Table has been placed at the beginning of the Materials and methods section.

(9) Line 389: The sentence “Sexually mature adults (2–6 months) were used for experiments, and tissues were consistently sampled 1–5 hours after lights on.” has been revised to “Sexually mature adults (2–6 months) were used for experiments and assigned randomly to experimental groups. Tissues were consistently sampled 1–5 hours after lights on.”

(10)  Line 393: The sentence “All fish were handled in accordance with the guidelines of the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee of the University of Tokyo.” has been removed.

(11)  Line 589: The following sentence has been added: “No power analysis was conducted due to the lack of relevant data; sample size was estimated based on previous studies reporting inter-individual variation in behavior and neural gene expression in medaka.”

(12)  Line 598: The reference list has been reordered from numerical sequence to alphabetical order by author.

(13)  In the figure legends, notations such as “A and B” have been revised to “A, B.”

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

This paper provides a novel method to improve the accuracy of predictions of the impact of ITN strategies, by using sub-national estimates of the duration of ITN access and use over time from cross-sectional survey data and annual country ITNs received.

Strengths:

The approach is novel, makes use of available data, and has considered all of the relevant components of ITN distributions.

Weaknesses:

(1) The main message of the paper was not very clear, and did not seem to fit the title. The title focuses on sub-national tailoring of ITN, but the abstract did not feature results directly about SNT. It was not very clear what the main result of the paper was - there are several ITN observations in the results and discussion. Most did not seem to be directly about SNT, but rather sub-national differences in use and access were accounted for in the analyses. It was not clear if the same conclusions would be reached without accounting for sub-national differences, but the estimates and predictions could be expected to be more accurate.

(2) Some of the results seemed to me to be apparent even without a modelling exercise (eg high coverage could not be maintained between campaigns, use would be higher with 2-yearly distributions rather than 3-yearly) or were not in themselves new insights (eg estimates of the duration of use). It would be helpful to clearly state what the novel results are in the abstract, the first paragraph of the discussion and the conclusions, and to make sure that the title is consistent.

(3) On L236, the link to SNT is stated: "the models indicate trends that can support sub-national tailoring of ITNs". They could indeed, but SNT itself is not done in this paper. It seems to be about improving sub-national predictions of the impact of single ITN strategies, by taking into account sub-national variation in access and use duration. This is useful, and the model developed has novel aspects.

(4) Individual countries may have records on when nets were distributed to the regions rather than needing to use the annual country number of nets together with the DHS data. It could be helpful to say what the analysis steps would be in that case.

(5) There were several assumptions that needed to be made in building the model. There is some validation of the timing of the distributions (L633 "verified where possible through discussion with interested parties nationally and internationally") and the fit of estimated access and use to survey data, and agreement between predictions of prevalence and MAP estimates. It would be helpful to say which assumptions are important for the results (and would be key knowledge gaps) and which would not make a difference. It might be possible to validate the net timing model using a country where net distributions are known reasonably well.

(6) What was assumed about what happens to old nets after a mass campaign was not clear. This assumption is likely to affect the predictions of access for the biennial distributions.

(7) L312 and elsewhere: That use given access declines with net age is plausible. However, I wondered if this could be partly a consequence of the assumptions in the model (eg the two exponential decays for access and use, the possible assumption that new nets displace the current ones when there is a mass campaign).

(8) The Methods section on Estimating historical use and access seemed to be aimed at readers familiar with formulae, but I think it could lose other interested readers. It could be useful to explain a little more about what is happening at each step and also why.

(9) The model was fitted to MAP estimates of PfPR2-10, which themselves come from a model. It may be that there is different uncertainty in the MAP estimates for different regions. I couldn't see this on the graph, but maybe the uncertainty is small. Was this taken into account in the fitting?

(10) Was uncertainty from each estimated component integrated into the other components?

(11) Eyeballing Figure 2 (Burkina Faso), there is a general pattern of decline in all the regions, some differences between the regions and some differences in how well the model fits between the regions. If possible, it could be helpful to say how much better the fit was when using region-specific compared to countrywide parameter values for access and use, and how different the results would be.

(12) The question of moving from a campaign every three to every two years may not be the most pertinent question in the current funding landscape. I realise that a paper is in development for a long time, but it would be helpful to comment on what else the model could be used for when fewer rather than more nets are likely to be available.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

Metabolic dysfunction-associated steatotic liver disease (MASLD) ranges from simple steatosis, steatohepatitis, fibrosis/cirrhosis, and hepatocellular carcinoma. In the current study, the authors aimed to determine the early molecular signatures differentiating patients with MASLD associated fibrosis from those patients with early MASLD but no symptoms. The authors recruited 109 obese individuals before bariatric surgery. They separated the cohorts as no MASLD (without histological abnormalities) and MASLD. The liver samples were then subjected to transcriptomic and metabolomic analysis. The serum samples were subjected to metabolomic analysis. The authors identified dysregulated lipid metabolism, including glyceride lipids, in the liver samples of MASLD patients compared to the no MASLD ones. Circulating metabolomic changes in lipid profiles slightly correlated with MASLD, possibly due to the no MASLD samples derived from obese patients. Several genes involved in lipid droplet formation were also found elevated in MASLD patients. Besides, elevated levels of amino acids, which are possibly related to collagen synthesis, were observed in MASLD patients. Several antioxidant metabolites were increased in MASLD patients. Furthermore, dysregulated genes involved in mitochondrial function and autophagy were identified in MASLD patients, likely linking oxidative stress to MASLD progression. The authors then determined the representative gene signatures in the development of fibrosis by comparing this cohort with the other two published cohorts. Top enriched pathways in fibrotic patients included GTPas signaling and innate immune responses, suggesting the involvement of GTPas in MASLD progression to fibrosis. The authors then challenged human patient derived 3D spheroid system with a dual PPARa/d agonist and found that this treatment restored the expression levels of GTPase-related genes in MASLD 3D spheroids. In conclusion, the authors suggested the involvement of upregulated GTPase-related genes during fibrosis initiation.

Concerns from first round of review:

(1) A recent study, via proteomic and transcriptomic analysis, revealed that four proteins (ADAMTSL2, AKR1B10, CFHR4 and TREM2) could be used to identify MASLD patients at risk of steatohepatitis (PMID: 37037945). It is not clear why the authors did not include this study in their comparison.

(2) The authors recruited 109 patients but only performed transcriptomic and metabolomic analysis in 94 liver samples. Why did the authors exclude other samples?

(3) The authors mentioned clinical data in Table 1 but did not present the table in this manuscript.

(4) The generated metabolomic data could be a very useful resource to the MASLD community. However, it is very confusing how the data was generated in those supplemental tables. There is no clear labeling of human clinical information in those tables. Also, what do those values mean in columns 47-154? This reviewer assumed that they are the raw data of metabolomic analysis in plasma samples. However, without clear clinical information in these patients, it is impossible that any scientist can use the data to reproduce the authors' findings.

(5) In Fig. 5B, the authors excluded the steatosis and fibrosis overlapped genes. Steatosis and fibrosis specific genes could simply reflect the outcomes rather than causes. In this case, the obtained results might not identify the gene signatures related to fibrosis initiation.

(6 In Fig. 6D, the authors used 3D liver spheroid to validate their findings. However, there is no images showing the 3D liver spheroid formation before and after PPARa/d agonist treatment. It is not clear whether the 3D liver spheroid was successfully established.

(7) The authors suggested that targeting LX-2 cells with Rac1 and Cdc42 inhibitors could reduce collagen production. Did the authors observe these two genes upregulated in mRNA and protein expression levels in their cohort when compared MASLD patients with and without fibrosis?

(8) Did the authors observe that the expression levels of Rac1 and Cdc42 are correlated with fibrosis progression in MASLD patients?

(9) Other studies have revealed several metabolite changes related to MASLD progression (PMID: 35434590, PMID: 22364559). However, the authors did not discuss the discrepancies between their findings with the previous studies.

Significance:

Overall, the current study might provide some new resources regarding transcriptomic and metabolomic data derived from obese patients with and without MASLD. The MASLD research community will be interested in the resource data.

Comments on revised version:

Thank you for the authors' responses to my concerns. I do not have any further comments.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

In this paper, Kaldis and collaborators investigate the molecular heterogeneity of a 109 morbidly obese patient cohort, focusing on liver transcriptomics and metabolomics analysis from liver and serum. The main finding (i.e. upregulation of GTPase-coding genes) was validated in spheroids and a human HSC cell line. As these proteins are involved in critical cellular functions related to metabolism and cytoskeleton dynamics, these findings shed light on their involvement in human liver pathology which so far has been poorly (or even not) documented to date. This is an interesting addition to the current knowledge about chronic liver pathology and warranting further in-depth molecular investigations to address molecular mechanisms of action (cellular specificity, GTPase-driven pathways...).

Strengths:

Using a well-characterized patient cohort of moderate size, the study provide transcriptomic and metabolomic data of high quality with adequate statistical corrections which are a very useful resource for the community. Mechanistic experiments usefully hint at novel druggable targets in the early steps of fibrosis, hence probably in hepatic stellate cell activation.

Weaknesses:

Cross comparisons with other cohorts is informative but of limited interest due to patient classification issues, inherent to histological staging practices. The lack of correlation between transcriptomic and metabolomic data is deceptive but expected due to the systemic nature of metabolomic analysis and was also observed in recently published papers.

Comments on revised version:

I have no further comment about this amended version, aside from suggesting to add (if known) the time at which biopsies were collected. Time-of-day is an important yet often overlooked parameter of gene expression variation, and along the same line, the imposed fasting to bariatric surgery patients is also a matter of variation of gene expression and of metabolite abundance. It is hoped that future investigations will more precisely characterize the role of the newly identified targets in MASLD.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

Metabolic dysfunction associated liver disease (MASLD) describes a spectrum of progressive liver pathologies linked to life style-associated metabolic alterations (such as increased body weight and elevated blood sugar levels), reaching from steatosis over steatohepatitis to fibrosis and finally end stage complications, such as liver failure and hepatocellular carcinoma. Treatment options for MASLD include diet adjustments, weight loss, and the receptor-β (THR-β) agonist resmetirom, but remain limited at this stage, motivating further studies to elucidate molecular disease mechanisms to identify novel therapeutic targets.

In their present study, the authors aim to identify early molecular changes in MASLD linked to obesity. To this end, they study a cohort of 109 obese individuals with no or early-stage MASLD combining measurements from two anatomic sides: 1. bulk RNA-sequencing and metabolomics of liver biopsies, and 2. metabolomics from patient blood. Their major finding is that GTPase-related genes are transcriptionally altered in livers of individuals with steatosis with fibrosis compared to steatosis without fibrosis.

Comments from the first round of review:

(1) Confounders (such as (pre-)diabetes)

The patient table shows significant differences in non-MASLD vs. MASLD individuals, with the latter suffering more often from diabetes or hypertriglyceridemia. Rather than just stating corrections, subgroup analyses should be performed (accompanied with designated statistical power analyses) to infer the degree to which these conditions contribute to the observations. I.e., major findings stating MASLD-associated changes should hold true in the subgroup of MASLD patients without diabetes/of female sex and so forth (testing for each of the significant differences between groups).

Post-rebuttal update: The authors have performed the requested sub-group analysis and find the gene signatures hold for the non-diabetic sub-cohort, but not the diabetic subgroup. They denote a likely interaction between fibrosis and diabetes, that was not corrected for in the original analysis.

(2) External validation

Additionally, to back up the major GTPase signature findings, it would be desirable to analyze an external dataset of (pre)diabetes patients (other biased groups) for alternations in these genes. It would be important to know if this signature also shows in non-MASLD diabetic patients vs. healthy patients or is a feature specific to MASLD. Also, could the matched metabolic data be used to validate metabolite alterations that would be expected under GTPase-associated protein dysregulation?

Post-rebuttal update: The authors confirm that with the present data, insulin resistance cannot be fully ruled out as a confounder to the GTP-ase related gene signature. They however plan future mouse model experiments to study whether the GTPase-fibrosis signature differs in diabetic vs. non-diabetic conditions.

(3).3D liver spheroid MASH model, Fig. 6D/E

This 3D experiment is technically not an external validation of GTPase-related genes being involved in MASLD, since patient-derived cells may only retain changes that have happened in vivo. To demonstrate that the GTPase expression signature is specifically invoked by fibrosis the LX-2 set up is more convincing, however, the up-regulation of the GTPase-related genes upon fibrosis induction with TGF-beta, in concordance with the patient data, needs to be shown first (qPCR or RNA-seq). Additionally, the description of the 3D model is too uncritical. The maintenance of functional PHHs is a major challenge (PMID: 38750036, PMID: 21953633, PMID: 40240606, PMID: 31023926). It cannot be ruled out that their findings are largely attributable to either 1) the (other present) mesenchymal cells (i.e., mesenchyme-derived cells, such as for example hepatic stellate cells, not to be confused with mesenchymal stem cells, MSCs), or 2) related to potential changes in PHHs in culture, and these limitations need to be stated.

Post-rebuttal update: To address the concern of other cells than hepatocytes contributing to the observed effects in culture, the authors performed TGF-beta treatment in independent mono-cultures (Figure R4): LX-2 and hepatocytes, and the spheroid system. Surprisingly, important genes highlighted in Figure 6E for the spheroid system (RAB6A, ARL4A, RAB27B, DIRAS2) are all absent from this qPCR(?) validation experiment. The authors evaluate instead RAC1, RHOU, VAV1, DOCK2, RAB32. ­In spheroids, RHOU and RAB32 are down-regulated with TGF-B. In hepatocytes DOCK2 and RAC seemed up-regulated. They find no difference in these genes in LX-2 cells. Surprisingly, ACTA2 expression values are missing for LX-2 cells. Together, it is hard to judge which individual cell type recapitulates the changes observed in patients in this validation experiment, as the major genes called out in Figure 6E are not analyzed.

Unfortunately, the 3D liver spheroid model used (as presente­d in PMID39605182) lacks important functional validation tests of maintained hepatocyte identity in culture (at the very least Albumin expression and secretion plus CYP3A4 assay). This functional data (acquired at the time point in culture when the RNA expression analysis in 6E was performed) is indispensable prior to stating that mature hepatocytes cause the observed effects.

(4) Novelty / references

Similar studies that also combined liver and blood lipidomics/metabolomics in obese individuals with and without MASLD (e.g. PMID 39731853, 39653777) should be cited. Additionally, it would benefit the quality of the discussion to state how findings in this study add new insights over previous studies, if their findings/insights differ, and if so, why.

Post-rebuttal update: The authors have included the studies into their discussion.

Ooooh, but the game was not for them. I wonder how Nintendo does its testing...

What follows is only partly new, but mainly no. Sports as at the work level are hardly games. People there don't play, they train, they work, they compete. Sports as competition is football, basketball, you may know more ancient forms of them... and they have rules, referees, time, and metrics like assists, goals, even dating very far back.

The olympics of wrestling, of lifting, or ball throwing. They had metrics in the past, in Greece, in Rome. This ain't new, come on.

The point being, there is exogenous, or what is forced from outside, and endogenous, or what is forced from inside. UK, France, Spain, etc. were and are colonialists countries that forced upon others their empire, and they still do, but in a more palatable less visibly violent fashion.

They opress, homogenise, silence, displace, much like the US, Mainland China, India, or Mexico. Their internal dissidents, varied ideologies, immigrants, subcultures, languages, natives, are squished, minoritised, colonised.

Yes, arguably that is the game's goal, but as I see it, most of the game's players are actually very far from being mindless colonialists. They are not warmongers either. Instead, I see historians, economists, people that may be white, sure, but that are also concerned with whiteness, that try to tackle it by explaining it. Strategy games demand systems thinking that is somewhat incompatible with reductionist us vs them narratives.

Hall's dominant/hegemonic, negotiated, and oppositional is like Castell's legitimizing identity, resistance, and project, which is basically a rehashed virtue ethics by another name. You will deny it, but it maps onto right-wrong with a middle ground in between, or a conservatist-progressivist axis whereby one seeks perpetuation and another one seeks disruption, similar to Nietzsche and Camus in this sense.

Are you the rebel, or the empire? Come on, this ain't new: Time in memorial has had preachers claim things need changing.

Language shapes identity and reflects social power

Debates about black english are about power

I tried out some of the Wexford cards today. They're generally the same exact thickness and general quality as the Amazon Basics and the Oxford branded cards I've got. They're probably closer in quality to Amazon Basics than the Oxford which are a bit "tighter weave". I've got almost a dozen different brands, perhaps one of these days I'll set up my microscope along with a camera and do photos of the differences in paper quality.

The Wexfords have some of the more textured feel of any I've seen out there. They have the standard red top line, but the rest of the lines seem almost grayish or nearly black compared to most other cards which have a medium to lighter blue coloring. The Wexfords also have an only very slightly thinner than usual 1/4" spacing. (It measures out to 0.2375 inches between lines rather than the typical 0.25" most American cards would have. This nets out to be a 6mm line which makes me think it's a more European/Japanese/Chinese card than an American one despite the 4x6" dimensions.)

reviewer challneges wheter respecting language

Synthèse sur l'Optimisation des Plaques de Gélatine DIY

Résumé Exécutif

Ce document de synthèse détaille les problèmes, solutions et innovations présentés dans le contexte de la fabrication et de l'utilisation de plaques d'impression à la gélatine faites maison (DIY).

L'analyse révèle trois problèmes majeurs avec les recettes traditionnelles :

un séchage prématuré de la peinture, des risques significatifs liés à l'utilisation d'alcool, et des réactions chimiques indésirables avec la peinture acrylique.

La solution centrale est l'adoption d'une nouvelle recette "sobre", qui élimine complètement l'alcool et le remplace par du propylène glycol.

Ce changement résout non seulement le risque d'incendie et les problèmes d'irritation, mais améliore également de manière significative la rétention d'eau de la plaque, prévenant ainsi le séchage de la peinture.

Parallèlement, de nouveaux protocoles de maintenance sont introduits, notamment une "routine de soins" en deux étapes (nettoyage et hydratation) pour préserver la surface de la plaque et inhiber la croissance microbienne.

Les recommandations de stockage ont été révisées pour préconiser un contenant hermétique, en conjonction avec cette nouvelle routine.

Enfin, des outils et méthodologies de précision sont proposés, comme le passage à des mesures en grammes et le lancement d'un "Calculateur de Recette 2.0".

Cet outil en ligne permet de personnaliser les recettes en fonction de la taille de la plaque et de la force (valeur de Bloom) de la gélatine.

Le document aborde également la cause du "caillage" de la peinture acrylique—un environnement acide—et fournit une solution de neutralisation à base de bicarbonate de soude.

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1. Problèmes Identifiés avec la Recette Originale

L'analyse de la recette originale de la plaque de gélatine DIY a mis en évidence plusieurs problèmes récurrents rencontrés par les utilisateurs, transformant parfois l'expérience d'impression en un processus frustrant.

1.1. Le Problème de la "Plaque Assoiffée"

Le problème le plus courant est celui d'une plaque qui sèche trop rapidement, rendant la peinture quasi impossible à retirer.

• Cause principale : Un surdosage de gélatine ou l'utilisation d'une gélatine à haute valeur de Bloom. Une telle plaque n'est pas entièrement saturée en eau et devient "très, très assoiffée".

• Mécanisme : La plaque de gélatine sèche aspire instantanément l'eau contenue dans la peinture acrylique. Les pigments adhèrent alors de manière presque irréversible à la surface.

• Conséquence : La plaque se comporte comme un "aimant suceur de peinture acrylique" plutôt que comme une surface de transfert antiadhésive.

• Analogies : L'auteure compare ce phénomène aux premières crêpes que l'on jette, expliquant que la plaque a besoin de "s'échauffer", c'est-à-dire de se saturer en eau, avant de fonctionner correctement.

1.2. Les Risques et Inconvénients de l'Alcool

L'alcool, ingrédient clé de l'ancienne recette pour réduire l'aspect collant et améliorer la conservation, présente deux inconvénients majeurs.

• Risque d'incendie : L'utilisation d'alcool (isopropylique, dénaturé, ou à haute teneur) lors du chauffage du mélange présente un risque réel d'incendie.

Une utilisatrice nommée Rita a d'ailleurs connu un tel incident, ce qui a été un catalyseur pour le changement de recette.

• Irritation : Les vapeurs d'alcool peuvent irriter les yeux et les voies respiratoires des utilisateurs.

• Déshydratation de la plaque : L'alcool contribue significativement à la déshydratation de la plaque sur le long terme.

L'auteure fait une analogie avec la "sensation de Sahara dans la bouche" après une soirée arrosée pour illustrer cet effet.

1.3. Comportement Anormal de la Peinture Acrylique

Certains utilisateurs ont rapporté un comportement "super étrange" de la peinture acrylique, qui se met à cailler ou à se décomposer sur la plaque.

• Cause : Un environnement acide (pH bas).

• Origine du problème : L'ajout d'acides comme le jus de citron ou l'acide citrique dans le mélange, souvent dans le but d'agir comme conservateur.

• Effet : Dans un milieu fortement acide, le système liant de la peinture acrylique peut se rompre, provoquant son caillage.

La peinture adhère alors davantage au rouleau qu'à la plaque elle-même.

2. La Nouvelle Recette "Sobre" : La Solution Centrale

Pour remédier à ces problèmes, la recette a été entièrement reformulée, la modification la plus importante étant le retrait de l'alcool, qualifiant la nouvelle plaque de "sobre".

2.1. Le Remplacement de l'Alcool par le Propylène Glycol

L'alcool est remplacé par le propylène glycol, décrit comme le "partenaire parfait" de la glycérine.

• Propriétés : Le propylène glycol appartient chimiquement à la famille des alcools, mais il est beaucoup moins volatil, ne s'évapore quasiment pas et présente un risque d'incendie significativement plus faible dans des conditions de cuisine normales.

• Bénéfices dans la recette :

◦ Stabilité : Il aide à rendre la plaque plus ferme et stable sans lui "voler toute son eau".  

◦ Rétention d'humidité : Il aide la plaque à rester flexible, à moins rétrécir et à conserver son humidité, ce qui garantit de belles impressions.   

◦ Conservation : Il contribue à ralentir la croissance des bactéries et des moisissures, agissant comme un agent de conservation.

• Conclusion de l'auteure : "Si je devais choisir entre 'Brûle bien' et 'Imprime bien'... je suis assez sûre que vous choisirez la plaque qui imprime parfaitement plutôt que le feu d'artifice dans la cuisine."

2.2. Expérimentations avec des Plaques "Fusion"

Des tests ont été menés sur des plaques "fusion" combinant les propriétés de la gélatine et d'agents gélifiants à base de plantes. Ces versions semblent résoudre nativement le problème de séchage de la peinture.

• Ingrédients testés :

◦ Gomme de xanthane   

◦ Konjac (ou glucomannane) : L'agent actif de la farine de konjac, connu pour son pouvoir gélifiant et épaississant extrême.

• Résultats préliminaires : Les plaques fusion semblent libérer plus de peinture sur le papier, laissant moins de résidus sur la surface. Les tests sont jugés "très prometteurs".

• Note : Une exploration plus approfondie de ces hydrogels est prévue dans une future vidéo.

3. Nouveaux Protocoles de Maintenance, de Stockage et de Réparation

La nouvelle approche s'accompagne de protocoles mis à jour pour entretenir, stocker et même réparer les plaques.

3.1. Réhydratation d'une Plaque Sèche

Une plaque devenue trop sèche peut être "ramenée à la vie" sans être refondue.

• Méthode : Un "bain" d'eau. La plaque est immergée dans l'eau pendant une durée allant de 3 à 48 heures, voire plus, jusqu'à ce qu'elle absorbe l'eau nécessaire et augmente de volume.

• Alternative : Si un contenant adapté n'est pas disponible, la surface peut être vaporisée d'eau, recouverte de papier essuie-tout humide et enveloppée dans un film plastique.

3.2. Nettoyage des Anciennes Couches de Peinture

Une découverte notable a été faite pour enlever les couches de peinture tenaces : La colle artisanale simple à base d'eau (colle blanche universelle) s'est avérée extrêmement efficace pour décoller les anciennes couches de peinture séchée de la surface de la plaque.

3.3. Nouvelle "Routine de Soins"

Un protocole de soins post-impression, comparé à une routine de soins pour la peau, est désormais recommandé pour préserver la plaque.

1. Nettoyage Doux : Vaporiser un spray nettoyant sur la plaque, essuyer avec un chiffon doux pour enlever les résidus de peinture.

2. Rinçage : Repasser sur la surface avec de l'eau claire pour éliminer tout tensioactif résiduel.

3. Hydratation et Protection : Masser une petite quantité d'un spray de soin sur la surface.

Les recettes pour ces sprays sont les suivantes :

Spray

Ingrédients (en grammes)

Instructions

Spray Nettoyant

- 500g Eau<br>- 2g Savon neutre<br>- 1g Alcool (pour dissoudre)<br>- 1g Huile essentielle (Arbre à thé ou Clou de girofle, optionnel)

Dissoudre l'huile essentielle dans l'alcool, ou directement dans le savon. Mélanger tous les ingrédients et verser dans un flacon pulvérisateur.

Spray de Soin

- 200g Eau<br>- 2g Huile pour bébé (huile minérale)<br>- 1g Huile essentielle d'arbre à thé<br>- 1g Huile essentielle de clou de girofle

Mélanger tous les ingrédients. Agiter vigoureusement avant chaque utilisation car le mélange est biphasique (l'huile se sépare de l'eau).

Le spray de soin laisse un "film protecteur huileux très fin" qui protège contre le dessèchement et rend la surface moins accueillante pour les microbes grâce aux propriétés des huiles essentielles.

3.4. Recommandations de Stockage Mises à Jour

• Ancienne recommandation (pour les plaques avec alcool) : Ne pas stocker dans un contenant hermétique les premiers jours pour permettre à l'humidité de s'échapper et éviter un "microclimat tropical" propice aux moisissures.

• Nouvelle recommandation (pour les plaques "sobres" avec routine de soin) : Stocker dans un contenant hermétique dès le début.

Cette approche est jugée optimiste pour minimiser la perte d'eau, les précautions étant prises par la routine de soin antimicrobienne.

4. Outils et Méthodologies de Précision

Pour améliorer la fiabilité et la reproductibilité des résultats, de nouvelles méthodologies ont été introduites.

4.1. Passage aux Mesures en Grammes

Toutes les nouvelles recettes sont désormais formulées en grammes plutôt qu'en unités de volume.

• Raison : La précision est cruciale, en particulier avec les agents gélifiants végétaux où "un demi-gramme de plus ou de moins peut déjà faire une énorme différence".

• Avantage pratique : Il devient très simple de calculer la perte d'eau lors de la refonte d'une plaque.

Il suffit de peser la plaque usagée, de comparer son poids au poids total initial des ingrédients, et d'ajouter la différence en eau lors de la refonte pour la restaurer à son état optimal.

4.2. Le Calculateur de Recette 2.0

https://ashrey.com/diy-gel-plate/

Un nouvel outil en ligne, le "Calculateur de Recette 2.0", a été développé.

• Fonctionnalités :

◦ Fonctionne entièrement en grammes.  

◦ Prend en compte la force de la gélatine (valeur de Bloom).   

◦ Permet de dimensionner les recettes précisément à la taille de plaque souhaitée.   

◦ Offre le choix entre différents types de plaques : standard, plus souple, ou la version expérimentale "fusion" avec hydrogel.

• Disponibilité : L'outil est accessible sur le site web de l'auteure. Le calculateur classique (en unités métriques et impériales) reste également disponible.

5. Diagnostic et Solution pour le Caillage de la Peinture

Le mystère du comportement anormal de la peinture acrylique a été résolu.

• Diagnostic : La peinture acrylique n'aime pas les environnements acides. Un pH bas provoque son caillage et la rupture de son système liant.

• Action à éviter : Ne pas ajouter d'acides (jus de citron, acide citrique) comme conservateurs dans le mélange de la plaque de gélatine.

• Solution de Réparation ("Fix d'Urgence") : Pour une plaque déjà acide, il est possible de neutraliser sa surface.

1. Préparer une solution alcaline douce : Dissoudre 2 à 3 grammes de bicarbonate de soude (disponible sous des noms comme "Kaisernatron" en Allemagne) dans 1 litre d'eau.  

2. Appliquer : Verser ou vaporiser la solution sur la surface de la plaque.  

3. Attendre : Laisser agir pendant 30 à 60 secondes. 

4. Essuyer : Sécher la plaque, puis la nettoyer à nouveau avec de l'eau propre ou une lingette pour bébé.  

5. Répéter si nécessaire jusqu'à ce que la plaque fonctionne correctement.

People from all social levels, including everyday colonists, soldiers, and organizers, contributed to a major war for independence in the American colonies during the late 18th century, which later inspired movements for equality and rights across the following centuries.

Not all colonists supported the revolution—many stayed loyal to Britain or tried to remain neutral. As resistance grew in 1774–1775, divisions appeared, especially among elites like merchants, clergy, and royal officials who relied on ties to Britain. At first they tried to moderate the protests, but later some feared the resistance was becoming too radical and still hoped for a peaceful reconciliation.

describes the Boston Tea Party, where colonists boldly destroyed 342 chests of tea to protest British taxes. I like how it emphasizes their courage and carefulness they made a huge statement without damaging the ships. It really shows how direct action became a key part of colonial resistance.

The American Revolution emerged largely from British attempts to reform and control its empire after the costly Seven Years’ War. Britain gained vast territories in North America and India but faced enormous debts and expenses to defend its empire. Efforts in the 1760s to consolidate control over the colonies sparked colonial resistance, setting the stage for revolution.

Colonial political culture differed from Britain’s because land was easier to obtain, allowing more men to participate in politics. Colonists embraced republicanism, influenced by Britain’s “country” party, emphasizing virtue, public good, and vigilance against corruption and centralized power. While these ideas were fringe in Britain, they became widespread in the colonies, shaping colonial political identity.

ritain struggled to define its relationship with the colonies between 1688 and the mid-18th century, failing to implement coherent imperial reforms. Continuous wars and competing visions of empire authoritarian Old Whigs/Tories versus trade-focused Patriot Whigs divided officials and distracted from effective governance. As a result, occasional reform attempts failed, leaving colonial management inconsistent and setting the stage for future tens

This passage reminds readers that colonial society was deeply divided, with many people remaining loyal to Britain or choosing neutrality. It challenges the idea that all colonists supported resistance or independence. Recognizing these divisions helps explain why the Revolution created internal conflict as well as opposition to British rule.

The debate over bilingual education is about america's identiity and if multilingualism should be valued

even nick sees his emotion,he saw the interaction between daisy and gastby

yess they are finally interacting,i can tell gastby pretend to be calm

This sentence reveals how unstable Gatsby’s self-narrative has become. His words no longer sound deliberate but defensive and automatic. It suggests that the persona he performs is slipping beyond his control.

Should this be green to denote "correct"answer?

"Key takeaway" is used here but this section is "Concept explainer" in previous pages. Suggest stick to "Key Takeaway" to be consistent with other modules.

However,

Restate your thesis in this paragraph but do not merely repeat what it is that you have wrote. Find a way to connect everything and wrap things up and explain connections.

Definition of an informative research report. This is to relay results of a research question. Almost like an experiment but for text.

like even though that person didn't experience assault or something it can be created as a false memory

a is agoraphobia but doesn't have to be in panic disorder c is seperation anxiety disorder and d is part of the ocd

remember the movie we watched

Child fails to speak in some certain events or surrondings maybe in school they rather use their body language like nodding but rather not speak.

use passion and facts and don't create unanswered questions

for - progress champion - Steven Pinker - discredited - one example of many - outright lie - he says violence committed BY indigenous Uruguay people but it was colonialist violence done TO THEM!

for - AI - ponzi scheme - keep the progress narrative alive - while everything else is falling apart

Note: This response was posted by the corresponding author to Review Commons. The content has not been altered except for formatting.

Learn more at Review Commons

Reply to the reviewers

Manuscript number: RC-2025-03091

Corresponding author(s): Chia-Tsen, Tsai, Liuh-Yow Chen

1. General Statements [optional]

We thank the reviewers for their valuable time and constructive feedback on our study, which ultimately improved our manuscript. Herein, we provide a detailed response to each of the reviewers' comments, supported by new data that have been integrated into both the main text and the supplementary figures.

2. Point-by-point description of the revisions

Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

Summary This manuscript builds upon the authors' prior findings that targeting COUP-TF2 to TRF1 induces ALT-associated phenotypes and G2-mediated synthesis in telomerase-immortalised BJT human fibroblasts. In this study, the authors show that telomere-coupled COUP-TF2 promotes H3K9me3 enrichment in these cells, and that this effect is blocked by TRIM28 depletion. Furthermore, TRIM28 depletion also suppresses the formation of ALT phenotypes in VA13 ALT cells. Given that TRIM28 has been implicated in regulating H3K9me3 deposition via SETDB1, and has been reported to co-purify with TR2 and TR4 (though not previously in the context of ALT telomeres), these findings add mechanistic depth to how heterochromatin regulators contribute to ALT activity. Overall, the manuscript's conclusions are generally supported by the presented data, but several aspects require clarification or additional experimental validation.

The authors report a modest reduction in telomeric H3K9me3 following COUP-TF2 and TR4 depletion in U-2 OS and VA13 cells (Figure 1B). To strengthen the claim that these orphan receptors specifically regulate H3K9me3, the authors should 1) Assess additional heterochromatic histone marks (e.g., H4K20me3) at telomeres, 2) Normalize telomeric signals to both parental histone levels and input, and 3) Evaluate whether global H3K9me3 levels also decrease upon receptor depletion

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's suggestion. To address the concern regarding specificity, we assessed H3K27me3 and H4K20me3 levels upon COUP-TF2/TR4 depletion and found no significant changes (Supplementary Fig. 1C). Furthermore, we reprocessed the telomeric ChIP data, normalizing to both input DNA and parental histone levels (Figure 1B). This refined analysis reinforces our original conclusion. Finally, Western blot analysis showed no significant changes in global H3 or H3K9me3 levels upon COUP-TF2/TR4 depletion (Figure 1A). Altogether, these results further support the specificity of COUP-TF2/TR4 for H3K9me3 at telomeres. We have revised the main text (page 3) and updated Figure 1A, 1B, and Supplementary Figure 1C for these changes.

Most experiments explore chromatin changes in telomerase-positive BJT fibroblasts (Figure 2, Figure 4D). It remains unclear whether similar manipulations in ALT cells yield consistent effects, which would give a broader context for ALT phenotype induction. Are ALT phenotypes similarly induced in ALT cells? Does altered chromatin status affect telomere length or telomerase recruitment/activity? Can these pathways drive ALT phenotypes in non-immortalised cells?

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's suggestion and have explored chromatin changes in telomerase-negative BJ and IMR90 primary fibroblasts (Supplementary Fig. 2C, D). Consistent to the result in BJ-telomerase cells, we found that VP64-TRF1 decreased telomeric H3, H4, and H3K9me3 levels, whereas KRAB-TRF1 increased these marks. Moreover, expression of either VP64-TRF1 or KRAB-TRF1 was sufficient to induce APB formation and ATDs in BJ and IMR90 cells. These results indicate that the chromatin changes at telomeres can drive ALT phenotypes in both primary and telomerase-immortalized fibroblast cells.

    Additionally, regarding whether chromatin alteration affects telomere length or telomere regulation, we have explored telomere length changes in BJT cells expressing vector, TRF1, KRAB-TRF1 or VP64-TRF1. The result of telomere restriction fragment (TRF) assay showed that the cells of all conditions maintained static telomere lengths through 30 days in culture (data shown below), suggesting that the chromatin alterations may not impact telomerase recruitment or activity. As this result is beyond the scope of current study, this data is only shown here in the rebuttal letter for a reference and is not included in the revised manuscript.

    Moreover, according to the reviewer's suggestion, we also carried out VP64-TRF1 or KRAB-TRF1 expression experiments in WI38-VA13/2RA cells that express high TERRA and have altered chromatin structures. Our data revealed that VP64-TRF1 suppresses telomere H3K9me3 and ALT activity, while KRAB-TRF1 increases both (Supplementary Figure 2E), suggesting an association of heterochromatin state with ALT activation in WI38-VA13/2RA cells.

    The observation that VP64-TRF1 reduces ALT activity in WI38-2RA/VA13 cells contrasts with findings in BJT cells. It is worth noting that studies from the Azzalian and Linger groups demonstrated that experimentally induced TERRA expression promotes ALT activity in ALT and non-ALT cells (PMID: 36122232, PMID: 40624280). Therefore, we propose that TERRA upregulation by VP64-TRF1 may contribute to the ALT induction observed in BJT cells (Supplementary Figure 2A, B), whereas the ability of VP64-TRF1 to suppress ALT activity in WI38-2RA/VA13 cells could be attributed to the reduction of telomere H3K9me3 and heterochromatin loss. Importantly, KRAB-TRF1 concurrently enhanced histone H3, H4, and H3K9me3 occupancy and ATL activity in both human fibroblasts and ALT cells. Altogether, these results support the notion that heterochromatin formation triggers ALT.

    We also examined TRIM28 recruitment to telomeres by telomere-ChIP and found that COUP-TF2LBD-TRF1 promotes TRIM28 telomere enrichment in BJ, IMR90 and U2OS, similar to BJT cells (Supplementary Fig. 5A-D).  Moreover, in ALT cell lines WI38-2RA/VA13, U2OS, and Saos-2, depletion of COUP-TF2 or TR4 reduced TRIM28 telomeric association (Figure 4A, B). Together, the data from human fibroblasts and ALT cells supports a role of orphan NRs in recruiting TRIM28 to ALT telomeres.

We acknowledge the reviewer's suggestions, which allow us to clarify and strengthen the conclusions. The corresponding data are presented in Figure 4A-B and Supplementary Figure 2B-D and 5E-F, and the main text has been modified on page 4-6 in the revised manuscript.

When referring to Figure 3G, the authors state that that telomeric H3K9me3 was abolished upon depleting TRIM28 from the U2OS and WI38-VA13/2RA cells. Abolished is a strong word for a 50% decrease, and this sentence should be revised. The reduction appears greater than that seen with COUP-TF2/TR4 depletion. Are the effects additive? If so, might TRIM28 act, at least in part, independently of COUP-TF2/TR4?

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's comments. We have revised the manuscript on page 5, replacing "abolished" with "significantly reduced" to better describe the effect of TRIM28 depletion on telomeric H3K9me3. To further investigate the interplay between TRIM28 and orphan NRs in regulating telomeric H3K9me3, we conducted single and combined knockdown experiments in U2OS and WI38-VA13/2RA cells, followed by telomere-ChIP analysis (Supplementary Figures 4D, E). Our results showed that single depletion of either orphan NRs or TRIM28 lead to a similar decrease in telomeric H3K9me3, and that combined knockdown do not result in any further reduction. These findings support an epistatic interaction between orphan NRs and TRIM28 in the regulation of telomeric H3K9me3. We have expanded on this interpretation in the main text (page 6) and included the relevant data in Supplementary Figures 4D, E.

VA13 cells consistently exhibit stronger effects than U-2 OS (e.g., Figures 1 and 3). This discrepancy could be linked to the high content of variant repeats in VA13 cells. The authors should assess whether variant repeat content underlies the differential response. Repeating key experiments in additional ALT lines with varied repeat compositions would be informative.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's suggestion and have extended our analyses to two additional ALT osteosarcoma cell lines, SAOS-2 and G292. In both lines, depletion of orphan NRs resulted in a consistent decrease in telomeric H3K9me3 levels (Supplementary Figures 1A, B). We also examined the contribution of TRIM28 to telomeric H3K9me3 in these cells. siRNA-mediated depletion of TRIM28 in SAOS-2 and G292 cells similarly caused a significant reduction in telomeric H3K9me3 and ALT phenotypes (Supplementary Figure 4A-C). Together, these results from 4 ALT cell lines confirm that orphan NRs and TRIM28 promote telomeric H3K9me3 formation in ALT cells. We have modified the main text on page 3 and 5-6 for these results.

In line with the previous point, it would be useful to show whether TRIM28 telomeric enrichment is affected by COUP-TF2/TR4 depletion in U2OS cells (Figure 4C). To improve confidence in these findings, the authors should perform telomeric ChIP assays, especially with the COUP-TF2^LBDΔAF2-TRF1 mutant construct.

Response: Following the reviewer's suggestion, we performed telomere-ChIP assays to assess TRIM28 enrichment at telomeres upon expression of COUP-TF2LBD-TRF1 and its ΔAF2 mutant in U2OS cells. Consistent with our immunofluorescence results, telomere-ChIP revealed that COUP-TF2LBD-TRF1 expression promotes TRIM28 telomere enrichment, while the AF2 deletion mutant failed to recruit TRIM28 (Supplementary Figure 5D). We have modified the main text on page 6 for this result.

The immunoprecipitation experiments showing TRIM28 association with orphan receptors should include benzonase treatment to rule out DNA-mediated co-association (Figure 4F-G).

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's suggestion. To address the possibility of DNA-mediated interactions, we pre-incubated cell lysates with benzonase prior to Co-IP (Page 7). This treatment did not disrupt the association between TRIM28 and COUP-TF2 or TR4 in WI38-VA13/2RA and BJT cells (Supplementary Figures 5E-G), indicating a DNA-independent interaction. We have modified the main text on page 7 for this result.

The study would benefit from a direct assessment of whether COUP-TF2LBDΔAF2-TRF1 fails to induce ALT phenotypes in BJTfibroblasts.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. As the role of the COUP-TF2 AF2 domain in ALT induction in BJT fibroblasts has recently been thoroughly investigated and published by our group (PMID: 38752489), we have directed the current study towards a more detailed mechanistic question. Specifically, we have carried out experiments to further demonstrate that COUP-TF2 recruits TRIM28 to telomeres via its AF2 domain in both human fibroblasts and ALT cells (Supplementary Figures 5A-D). On Page 6, we have modified the main text for these results and included a citation to our previous publication to provide the necessary background.

The experiments performed in Figure 5E-H lack a vector-only + siCtrl control.• In Figure 5E, the observation that APB formation is restored in siTRIM28 + Vector-treated cells is unexpected. The authors should address this finding and clarify whether this reflects biological noise or a compensatory effect.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We have repeated the experiments with a revised design, ensuring a consistent vector background across all groups (Vector + siCtrl, Vector + siTRIM28, TRIM28 WT + siTRIM28, and TRIM28 ΔRBCC + siTRIM28) (Figure 5E-H). This improved design confirms that expression of wild-type TRIM28, but not TRIM28 ΔRBCC, restores APB formation, ATDS, ssTeloC, and telomeric H3K9me3 levels in TRIM28-depleted cells. The updated dataset also resolves the previous unexpected increase in APB formation in the siTRIM28 + Vector condition, which is now excluded. We have modified the main text accordingly on page 8.

Reviewer #1 (Significance (Required)):

This work offers valuable mechanistic insight into how COUP-TF2 and TRIM28 coordinate to regulate heterochromatin deposition and ALT phenotype formation. It adds to the growing understanding of chromatin-mediated telomere regulation. What remains unclear is how important this interaction is for ALT maintenance, as H3K9me3 is only moderately altered upon TRIM28 depletion in ALT cells. Depletion of TRIM28 has been shown previously to induce APB formation and telomere elongation in U-2 OS ALT cells (Wang et al., 2021), the opposite to what the authors observed here in VA13 cells (Figure 5E-H). Clarifying whether these differences are variant repeat-dependent, or reflect intrinsic features of specific ALT cell lines, would substantially elevate the study's impact.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's recognition of the significance of our work in elucidating the molecular basis of ALT regulation through COUP-TF2-TRIM28-mediated heterochromatin formation. In response to the reviewer's insightful comment regarding the importance of this interaction for ALT maintenance, we have expanded our study. We now include data from three additional primary human fibroblasts and a total of four ALT cancer cell lines (Figure 4, Supplementary Figure 4). These new data further strengthen the conclusion that TRIM28 promotes telomeric H3K9me3 and ALT-associated features. Furthermore, our rescue experiments support the model that the ALT-promoting function of TRIM28 in both fibroblasts and ALT cell lines is mediated through its physical interaction with COUP-TF2 (Supplementary Figure 5). We believe these results provide a solid foundation for demonstrating a cooperative role of COUP-TF2 and TRIM28 in ALT maintenance, and address the reviewer's concern regarding the generalizability of our findings.

Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required):

Summary This manuscript investigates the role of orphan nuclear receptors (ORs), specifically COUP-TF2 and TR4, in promoting H3K9me3 enrichment at ALT telomeres via recruitment of TRIM28 (KAP1). The authors propose that the AF2 domain of COUP-TF2, located in its ligand-binding domain (LBD), is sufficient to recruit TRIM28 to telomeres. This, in turn, promotes heterochromatinization and induces hallmarks of the Alternative Lengthening of Telomeres (ALT) pathway, including APB formation and telomeric DNA synthesis outside of S-phase. This study addresses one important and unresolved question in the field: by what mechanism is the heterochromatic state established at ALT telomeres? Another timely question, not addressed here is: how is heterochromatin (specifically H3K9me3) functionally linked to ALT? The findings are potentially novel and mechanistically insightful. However, key elements of the study, particularly the central tethering experiments, require stronger quantification and clarity. Additional mechanistic tests and literature adjustments would also improve the manuscript.

Major Concerns

Central TRF1-COUP-TF2-LBD result lacks quantification and clarity: the tethering of COUP-TF2's LBD to telomeres via TRF1 is a core result of the paper. This experiment demonstrates that this domain is sufficient to induce weak H3K9me3 enrichment and ALT features (APBs and ATDS). However, the supporting ALT data are presented only in Supplementary Figures S1A and S1B, and are not quantified. These data should be quantified with appropriate statistics and moved to a main figure.

Response: The current study builds upon our recent publication (PMID: 38752489), which comprehensively analyzed ALT induction (APBs, ATDS, C-circles, T-SCEs) by orphan NR-TRF1 expression (COUP-TF1, COUP-TF2, TR2, and TR4; full-length and LBD) in various human fibroblast cell lines. To avoid potential duplicate publication concerns, particularly regarding APB and ATDS results for COUP-TF2LBD-TRF1 in BJT cells, we have put the data with revised quantification results in Supplementary Figure 1D-E. We will follow the reviewer's suggestion and move this data to the main figures if the editors agree.

Furthermore, the broader functional implication is not explored. Does this tethering induce a fully functional ALT pathway? For example, can telomerase knockout cells expressing TRF1-COUP-TF2-LBD maintain long-term proliferation? Such evidence would significantly strengthen the impact of the study.

Response: While COUP-TF2LBD-TRF1 expression rapidly induces key ALT phenotypes, we acknowledge that this alone is insufficient to directly promote telomere lengthening and long-term proliferation of primary fibroblasts, as discussed in Gaela et al., 2024 (PMID: 38752489). However, our ongoing, unpublished studies indicate that COUP-TF2LBD-TRF1 can drive immortalization of primary BJ fibroblasts expressing SV40LT by promoting ALT-mediated telomere elongation (Attached Figure A-C; additional data not shown). These findings suggest that COUP-TF2 may cooperate with additional genetic or epigenetic alterations to facilitate ALT development. We appreciate the reviewer's recognition of this critical aspect. As our immortalization study is still in progress and will be the subject of a separate manuscript, we hope the reviewer understands that the data shown in this letter will not be included in the revised manuscript.

Chromatin manipulation experiments lead to ambiguous conclusions: the authors propose that telomeric heterochromatin promotes ALT activity, but their own experiments (e.g., Figure 2) show that both heterochromatin-inducing (KRAB-TRF1) and euchromatin-inducing (VP64-TRF1) tethering can trigger ALT-like features. This makes it difficult to conclude that heterochromatin is specifically required.

To clarify:

-Did the authors express TRF1-VP64 in an ALT cell line? According to their model, this should suppress ALT activity.

-More broadly, do chromatin alterations per se (regardless of direction) trigger ALT features? Clarifying these points is important for interpretation.

Response: In response to the reviewer's suggestion, we expressed VP64-TRF1 and KRAB-TRF1 in WI38-2RA/VA13 cells to investigate telomere chromatin changes and ALT activity. Our data indeed revealed that VP64-TRF1 suppresses telomere H3K9me3 and ALT activity, while KRAB-TRF1 increases both (Supplementary Figure 2E), suggesting that heterochromatin triggers ALT activation.

The observation that VP64-TRF1 reduces ALT activity in WI38-2RA/VA13 cells contrasts with findings in BJT cells. Of note, studies from the Azzalian and Lingner groups demonstrated that experimentally induced TERRA expression promotes ALT activity in ALT and non-ALT cells (PMID: 36122232, PMID: 40624280). Therefore, we propose that TERRA upregulation may contribute to the ALT induction observed in BJT cells (Figure 2A, Supplementary Figure 2A, B). Given the high basal TERRA expression, expression of VP64-TRF1 and KRAB-TRF1 did not result in a consistent change in TERRA levels (Supplementary Figure 2F). Thus, the ability of VP64-TRF1 to suppress ALT activity in WI38-2RA/VA13 cells could be attributed to the reduction of telomere H3K9me3 and heterochromatin loss. Altogether, our results support the hypothesis that heterochromatin formation, rather than euchromatin triggers ALT.

We thank the reviewer's insightful comments, which have allowed us to resolve the ambiguity of our results and strengthen the notion that heterochromatin formation promotes ALT. We think that the heterochromatin features and high TERRA expression represent two independent, coexisting mechanisms within ALT cancer cells to guarantee ALT activation. We have modified the main text on page 4-5 accordingly.

TERRA downregulation contradicts current models: while TERRA upregulation is often observed in ALT cells and is thought to contribute to replication stress and recombination at telomeres, the authors show that TRF1-KAP1 expression induces ALT features while TERRA is downregulated. This observation is not addressed in the manuscript. The authors should at least discuss this discrepancy and propose whether this reflects a cell line-specific phenomenon or a decoupling between TERRA levels and ALT induction in this context.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the comments. As mentioned above (Major Concerns 2), heterochromatin formation and TERRA expression are two mechanisms that can independently promote ALT. Unlike ALT cell lines that have high TERRA levels, human fibroblasts BJ cells have low TERRA that does not induce ALT phenotypes. Thus, the effect of KRAB-TRF1 on ALT induction in BJ cells could be attributed to the heterochromatin formation, but not reduction of TERRA. We have modified the main text on page 5 to clarify the result.

Minor Comments

Introduction (p. 3): The authors cite Episkopou et al. as showing increased H3K9me3 at ALT telomeres. This is incorrect; that paper suggests the opposite. The first study to clearly demonstrate H3K9me3 enrichment at ALT telomeres is Cubiles et al., 2018 and should be cited instead. Results (p. 5, first paragraph): The manuscript should cite Déjardin and Kingston, 2009 as the first to report COUP-TF2 and TR4 localization at ALT telomeres. The studies by Conomos et al., 2012 and Gaela et al., 2024 build on this prior evidence. Please also include this citation in the bibliography.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's careful reading and for pointing out these errors. The citation errors on pages 2 and 3 have now been corrected.Broader relevance of TRIM28-OR interaction: TRIM28 is a complex protein with roles in SUMOylation, heterochromatin formation, and transcriptional initiation/elongation regulation.

The authors should explore whether similar COUP-TF2/TRIM28 interactions occur at other genomic loci. Public ChIP-seq data for COUP-TF2, TR4, and TRIM28 could be mined to investigate whether these factors co-occupy regulatory regions elsewhere in the genome, and how this relates to gene expression states.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's insightful suggestion regarding a potential genome-wild functional interaction between TRIM28 and COUP-TF2. To address this, we analyzed public ENCODE ChIP-seq data from K562 cells (TRIM28: ENCSR000BRW; COUP-TF2: ENCSR000BRS). This analysis revealed 3,326 co-binding sites for TRIM28 and COUP-TF2 (Attached Figure A). Interestingly, these co-binding sites were preferentially located within gene bodies (70.7%) and promoter regions (4.3%) (Attached Figures B-D), suggesting a potential cooperative role in gene regulation that aligns with our observation of physical interaction. While the finding is intriguing, a full exploration is beyond the scope of this manuscript, which focuses on ALT telomere regulation. We consider this is an important insight and have briefly noted it in the discussion (p. 9), although the corresponding analyses are not included in the revised manuscript.

Reviewer #2 (Significance (Required)):

This work contributes mechanistic insight into how heterochromatin is established at ALT telomeres-an important and timely question in telomere biology and cancer research. It offers a noncanonical recruitment mechanism for TRIM28, independent of KRAB-ZNFs, and highlights the functional role of orphan nuclear receptors in telomeric chromatin regulation. The study has potential implications for understanding ALT regulation and for identifying new intervention points in ALT-positive cancers. The work is conceptually interesting, but the conclusions are currently limited by insufficient quantification, some interpretative ambiguities, and a few overlooked references. Addressing the concerns listed above would significantly enhance the rigor and impact of the manuscript.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer's recognition of the significance of our work in elucidating the molecular basis of ALT regulation through COUP-TF2-TRIM28-mediated heterochromatin formation. We also thank the reviewer for the valuable feedback, which has significantly strengthened our manuscript.

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Referee #2

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

Summary

This manuscript investigates the role of orphan nuclear receptors (ORs), specifically COUP-TF2 and TR4, in promoting H3K9me3 enrichment at ALT telomeres via recruitment of TRIM28 (KAP1). The authors propose that the AF2 domain of COUP-TF2, located in its ligand-binding domain (LBD), is sufficient to recruit TRIM28 to telomeres. This, in turn, promotes heterochromatinization and induces hallmarks of the Alternative Lengthening of Telomeres (ALT) pathway, including APB formation and telomeric DNA synthesis outside of S-phase. This study addresses one important and unresolved question in the field: by what mechanism is the heterochromatic state established at ALT telomeres? Another timely question, not addressed here is: how is heterochromatin (specifically H3K9me3) functionally linked to ALT? The findings are potentially novel and mechanistically insightful. However, key elements of the study, particularly the central tethering experiments, require stronger quantification and clarity. Additional mechanistic tests and literature adjustments would also improve the manuscript.

Major Concerns

1. Central TRF1-COUP-TF2-LBD result lacks quantification and clarity: the tethering of COUP-TF2's LBD to telomeres via TRF1 is a core result of the paper. This experiment demonstrates that this domain is sufficient to induce weak H3K9me3 enrichment and ALT features (APBs and ATDS). However, the supporting ALT data are presented only in Supplementary Figures S1A and S1B, and are not quantified. These data should be quantified with appropriate statistics and moved to a main figure. Furthermore, the broader functional implication is not explored. Does this tethering induce a fully functional ALT pathway? For example, can telomerase knockout cells expressing TRF1-COUP-TF2-LBD maintain long-term proliferation? Such evidence would significantly strengthen the impact of the study.
2. Chromatin manipulation experiments lead to ambiguous conclusions: the authors propose that telomeric heterochromatin promotes ALT activity, but their own experiments (e.g., Figure 2) show that both heterochromatin-inducing (KRAB-TRF1) and euchromatin-inducing (VP64-TRF1) tethering can trigger ALT-like features. This makes it difficult to conclude that heterochromatin is specifically required. To clarify:
3. Did the authors express TRF1-VP64 in an ALT cell line? According to their model, this should suppress ALT activity.
4. More broadly, do chromatin alterations per se (regardless of direction) trigger ALT features? Clarifying these points is important for interpretation.
5. TERRA downregulation contradicts current models: while TERRA upregulation is often observed in ALT cells and is thought to contribute to replication stress and recombination at telomeres, the authors show that TRF1-KAP1 expression induces ALT features while TERRA is downregulated. This observation is not addressed in the manuscript. The authors should at least discuss this discrepancy and propose whether this reflects a cell line-specific phenomenon or a decoupling between TERRA levels and ALT induction in this context.

Minor Comments

Introduction (p. 3): The authors cite Episkopou et al. as showing increased H3K9me3 at ALT telomeres. This is incorrect; that paper suggests the opposite. The first study to clearly demonstrate H3K9me3 enrichment at ALT telomeres is Cubiles et al., 2018 and should be cited instead. Results (p. 5, first paragraph): The manuscript should cite Déjardin and Kingston, 2009 as the first to report COUP-TF2 and TR4 localization at ALT telomeres. The studies by Conomos et al., 2012 and Gaela et al., 2024 build on this prior evidence. Please also include this citation in the bibliography. Broader relevance of TRIM28-OR interaction: TRIM28 is a complex protein with roles in SUMOylation, heterochromatin formation, and transcriptional initiation/elongation regulation. The authors should explore whether similar COUP-TF2/TRIM28 interactions occur at other genomic loci. Public ChIP-seq data for COUP-TF2, TR4, and TRIM28 could be mined to investigate whether these factors co-occupy regulatory regions elsewhere in the genome, and how this relates to gene expression states.

Significance

This work contributes mechanistic insight into how heterochromatin is established at ALT telomeres-an important and timely question in telomere biology and cancer research. It offers a noncanonical recruitment mechanism for TRIM28, independent of KRAB-ZNFs, and highlights the functional role of orphan nuclear receptors in telomeric chromatin regulation. The study has potential implications for understanding ALT regulation and for identifying new intervention points in ALT-positive cancers.

The work is conceptually interesting, but the conclusions are currently limited by insufficient quantification, some interpretative ambiguities, and a few overlooked references. Addressing the concerns listed above would significantly enhance the rigor and impact of the manuscript.

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Referee #1

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

Summary

This manuscript builds upon the authors' prior findings that targeting COUP-TF2 to TRF1 induces ALT-associated phenotypes and G2-mediated synthesis in telomerase-immortalised BJT human fibroblasts. In this study, the authors show that telomere-coupled COUP-TF2 promotes H3K9me3 enrichment in these cells, and that this effect is blocked by TRIM28 depletion. Furthermore, TRIM28 depletion also suppresses the formation of ALT phenotypes in VA13 ALT cells. Given that TRIM28 has been implicated in regulating H3K9me3 deposition via SETDB1, and has been reported to co-purify with TR2 and TR4 (though not previously in the context of ALT telomeres), these findings add mechanistic depth to how heterochromatin regulators contribute to ALT activity. Overall, the manuscript's conclusions are generally supported by the presented data, but several aspects require clarification or additional experimental validation.

• The authors report a modest reduction in telomeric H3K9me3 following COUP-TF2 and TR4 depletion in U-2 OS and VA13 cells (Figure 1B). To strengthen the claim that these orphan receptors specifically regulate H3K9me3, the authors should 1) Assess additional heterochromatic histone marks (e.g., H4K20me3) at telomeres, 2) Normalize telomeric signals to both parental histone levels and input, and 3) Evaluate whether global H3K9me3 levels also decrease upon receptor depletion
• Most experiments explore chromatin changes in telomerase-positive BJT fibroblasts (Figure 2, Figure 4D). It remains unclear whether similar manipulations in ALT cells yield consistent effects, which would give a broader context for ALT phenotype induction. Are ALT phenotypes similarly induced in ALT cells? Does altered chromatin status affect telomere length or telomerase recruitment/activity? Can these pathways drive ALT phenotypes in non-immortalised cells?
• When referring to Figure 3G, the authors state that that telomeric H3K9me3 was abolished upon depleting TRIM28 from the U2OS and WI38-VA13/2RA cells. Abolished is a strong word for a 50% decrease, and this sentence should be revised. The reduction appears greater than that seen with COUP-TF2/TR4 depletion. Are the effects additive? If so, might TRIM28 act, at least in part, independently of COUP-TF2/TR4?
• VA13 cells consistently exhibit stronger effects than U-2 OS (e.g., Figures 1 and 3). This discrepancy could be linked to the high content of variant repeats in VA13 cells. The authors should assess whether variant repeat content underlies the differential response. Repeating key experiments in additional ALT lines with varied repeat compositions would be informative.
• In line with the previous point, it would be useful to show whether TRIM28 telomeric enrichment is affected by COUP-TF2/TR4 depletion in U-2 OS cells (Figure 4C). To improve confidence in these findings, the authors should perform telomeric ChIP assays, especially with the COUP-TF2^LBDΔAF2-TRF1 mutant construct.
• The immunoprecipitation experiments showing TRIM28 association with orphan receptors should include benzonase treatment to rule out DNA-mediated co-association (Figure 4F-G).
• The study would benefit from a direct assessment of whether COUP-TF2LBDΔAF2-TRF1 fails to induce ALT phenotypes in BJT fibroblasts.
• The experiments performed in Figure 5E-H lack a vector-only + siCtrl control.
• In Figure 5E, the observation that APB formation is restored in siTRIM28 + Vector-treated cells is unexpected. The authors should address this finding and clarify whether this reflects biological noise or a compensatory effect.

Significance

This work offers valuable mechanistic insight into how COUP-TF2 and TRIM28 coordinate to regulate heterochromatin deposition and ALT phenotype formation. It adds to the growing understanding of chromatin-mediated telomere regulation. What remains unclear is how important this interaction is for ALT maintenance, as H3K9me3 is only moderately altered upon TRIM28 depletion in ALT cells. Depletion of TRIM28 has been shown previously to induce APB formation and telomere elongation in U-2 OS ALT cells (Wang et al., 2021), the opposite to what the authors observed here in VA13 cells (Figure 5E-H). Clarifying whether these differences are variant repeat-dependent, or reflect intrinsic features of specific ALT cell lines, would substantially elevate the study's impact.

Try to keep this in mind when asked to write a synthesis essay. Connect ideas and information and don't forget to explain how it all connects.

Definition of synthesis, keep in mind.

This is interesting that the dramatic imbalance in forces, showing how a small defending army relied on massive, historic walls to withstand a much larger invading army.

The sentence shows that Europe didn’t just recover after the plague, but also experienced major growth in learning and creativity.

Both sides got something: the Byzantines protected their pride, and Charlemagne kept his huge territory.

Two brothers first shared the kingdom, but when Carloman died young, Charles became the only ruler.

The senators who killed Caesar hoped Rome would return to its old system with no single ruler, but things didn’t go the way they planned.

This challenged my understanding of activism. I used to associate political action mainly with protests, but the authors show that decolonization also happens through everyday relational practices care, responsibility, and accountability to land and community.

This challenged my understanding of activism. I used to associate political action mainly with protests, but the authors show that decolonization also happens through everyday relational practices care, responsibility, and accountability to land and community.

Gas exchange relies on Fick’s Law of Diffusion, which states that the rate of diffusion is directly proportional to the surface area of the membrane. Oxygen cannot enter the bloodstream fast enough to meet the body's demands, and carbon dioxide cannot exit efficiently. The alveolar walls contain the dense network of capillaries where the actual exchange takes place. When the walls are destroyed, the capillaries are destroyed with them. This creates a "dead space" effect where there is air in the lungs, but insufficient blood flow to pick up the oxygen. Healthy alveoli are elastic—they snap back to push air out during exhalation. Smoking destroys the elastin fibers that provide this recoil. When the smoker inhales fresh air, it mixes with this stale, trapped air.10 This lowers the partial pressure of oxygen (PO2) within the alveoli, reducing the driving force that pushes oxygen into the blood.

Flock camera saves recordings locally

Keep these tips in mind when it comes to writing about your own reflections.

Reflecting on your strengths and weaknesses is something that will help you more in not just writing, but in any kind of subject

being self aware is something that I find to be the most helpful when it comes to making writings with the intention to share with others.

Try to keep it short and to the point so it isn't drawn out and wordy.

To build respectful and truthful relationships rather than appropriating indigenous identities.

The definition of "consensual allyship.

Decolonial work happens through kitchen tables, through parenting or just simple conversations.

Author emphasized that reflections in private should be connected with public actions. Allyship needs to exist in both intimate and public contexts. Which represents the idea that decolonial work is relational.

This is important as it shows that allyship requires actual action and consistent engagement rather than just an agreement. Which made me think in my own life, the actions from those that supposed to share responsibility with me.

This idea really stood out to me, as the author challenged the tranditional idea which is political work only occurs in public settings.

It's important to note that decolonization is something through lived experience. It's always been talked in scholar spaces which might people the illusion that it's the past when it's the present also.

As much as they do so much work but their work goes undervalued in academic settings, just like in family settings, particular groups's emotional and labor work goes unnoticed even though it is the tie to hold the family together.

Language is changeable but all works towards one goal.

Queer decolonial groups' work exists to challenge how our society shapes people's lives. From a personal perspective, as someone balancing caregiving, education, working, this made me reflect on how my situation could be connected to a bigger system that i imagined.

This is a powerful tool that allows everyone to train on large datasets, thank you for sharing it with the community! Do you have any practical sense about the tradeoffs between minibatch entropy and model validation performance for a set amount of training time? Obviously this is an impossible experiment to actually run, but I wonder if even lower minibatch entropy which allows higher throughput would be ideal given a set training time. Do you have any anecdotal evidence from training runs on how much shuffling is optimal? I agree that since this experiment could not actually be performed, close to random shuffling is probably the best. Thank you for this contribution!

Thank you for this excellent resource that allows anyone to use this dataset. Obviously the SCVI approach has many benefits in terms of eliminating batch effects and noise, but are there any concerns about the noisiness in the generative process for the (corrected, normalized) expected value of the contributions from each gene for downstream tasks? The reconstruction during training looks excellent, but there should be some tradeoff between the benefits of the SCVI latent representation and the generative process - where do you think the model lands on that spectrum? Thank you again for such a useful model!

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Reply to the reviewers

1. General Statements

In this study, we mechanistically define a new molecular interaction linking two of the cell's major morphological regulatory pathways-the Rho GTPase and Hippo signaling networks. These two major signaling pathways are both required for life across huge swaths of the tree of life. They are required for the dynamic organization and reorganization of proteins, lipids, and genetic material that occurs in essential cellular processes such as division, motility and differentiation. For decades these pathways have been almost exclusively studied independently, however, they are known to act in concert in cancer to drive cytoskeletal remodeling and morphological changes that promote proliferation and metastasis. However, mechanistic insight into how they are coordinated is lacking.

Our data reveal a mechanistic model where coordination is mediated by the RhoA GTPase-activating protein ARHGAP18, which forms molecular interactions with both the tumor suppressor Merlin (NF2) and the transcriptional co-regulator YAP (YAP1). Using a combination of state-of-the-art super-resolution microscopy (STORM, SORA-confocal) in cultured human cells, biochemical pulldown assays with purified proteins, and analyses of tissue-derived samples, we characterize ARHGAP18's function from the molecular to the tissue level in both native and cancer model systems.

Together, these findings establish a previously unrecognized molecular connection between the RhoA and Hippo pathways and culminate in a working model that integrates our current results with prior work from our group and decades of prior studies. This model provides a new conceptual framework for understanding how RhoA and Hippo signaling are coordinated to regulate cell morphology and tumor progression in human cells.

In this substantially revised manuscript, we have addressed all comments from the expert reviewers described point-by-point below. A shared major comment from the reviewers was the request for direct evidence of the proposed mechanistic model. To address these constructive comments, we've added new experiments, new quantification, new text, new control data, and have added two expert authors, adding super-resolution mouse tissue imaging data for the endogenous study of ARHGAP18 in its native condition. We believe that these additions greatly enhance the manuscript and collectively address the overall message from the reviewer's collective comments.

2. Point-by-point description of the revisions

Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

This manuscript describes a dual mechanism by which ARHGAP18 regulates the actin cytoskeleton. The authors propose that in addition to the known role for ARHGAP18 in regulating Rho GTPases, it also affects the cytoskeleton through regulation of the Hippo pathway transcriptional regulator YAP. ARHGAP18 knockout Jeg3 cells are were generated and show a clear loss of basal stress fiber like F-actin bundles. The authors further characterize the effects of ARHGAP18 knockout and overexpression. It is also discovered that ARHGAP18 binds to the Hippo pathway regulator Merlin and to YAP. Ultimately it is concluded that ARHGAP18 regulates the F-actin cytoskeleton through dual regulation of RHO GTPases and of YAP. While the phenotype of the ARHGAP18 knockout and the association of ARHGAP18 with Merlin and YAP is interesting, I found the authors conclusion that these phenotypes are due to ARHGAP18 regulation of both RHO and YAP to be based on largely correlative evidence and sometimes lacking in controls or tests for significance. In addition the authors often make overly strong conclusions based on the experimental evidence. In some instances, the rationale for how the experimental results support the conclusion is insufficiently articulated, making evaluation challenging. In general although the authors have some interesting observations, more definitive experiments with proper controls and statistical tests for significance and reproducibility are needed to justify their overall conclusions.

• *

*We appreciate the reviewers' constructive comments and have added substantial new data and quantifications to address their concerns. We have focused these new data on directly testing the proposed mechanisms, adding controls, and performing quantitative analysis with statistical testing. Additionally, we have edited our language to make our rationale clearer and to present our conclusions as a more moderate assessment of our experimental results. Below we respond to the specific comments made by the reviewer, followed by a list of additional editorial changes we've made based on the reviewer's overarching comments on clarity and rationale. *

Specific Comments

1) The authors make a big point about the effects of ARHGAP18 on myosin light chain phosphorylation. However, this result is not quantified and tested for statistical significance and reproducibility.

*We thank the reviewer for their comments on our western blotting quantification, which in the original submission version had quantification of RhoA downstream signaling of pCofilin/ Cofilin and pLIMK/ LIMK. We had withheld the pMLC and MLC quantification as the result was previously published with quantification, reproducibility, and statistical significance by our group in our prior manuscript on ARHGAP18 published in Elife in 2024 (Fig. 4E of *

https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.83526 ). However, these prior results lacked the new overexpression data. We recognize the need to add these data to this manuscript as requested by the reviewer.

• *

*To address the reviewer's comment, we have added quantification of pMLC/MLC (Fig. 1F) *

2) Along similar lines in Figure 2C they state that overexpression of ARHGAP18 causes cells to invade over the top of their neighbors. This might be true and interesting, but only a single cell is shown and there is no quantification or controls for simply overexpressing something in that cell. The authors also conclude from this image that the overexpression phenotype is independent of its GAP activity on Rho. It is not clear how this conclusion is made based on the data. It would seem like a more definitive experiment would be to see if a similar phenotype was induced by an ARHGAP18 mutant deficient in GAP activity.

Based on the reviewer's comment, we recognize the qualitative statements made in Figure 2C (now Figure 3) should've been made more quantitative. We have added the control of Jeg 3 WT cells expressed with empty vector flag to show that WT cells do not invade over the top of each other (Fig. 3F). Additionally, we have added the quantification found in Fig. 3E, which shows the % invasive/ non-invasive cells between WT and ARHGAP18 overexpression cells. We have clarified our conclusions to make clear that these data do not directly test if the invasive phenotype derives from a Rho-independent mechanism. The text now states the following conclusion alongside others, which can be seen in our tracked changes:

• *

"These data support the conclusion that ARHGAP18 acts to regulate basal and junctional actin. However, it was not clear whether this activity occurred through a Rho-independent or a Rho-dependent mechanism."

• *

We have added new data of cells expressing an ARHGAP18 mutant deficient in GAP activity, which is explained in detail in the following response below.

3) In Figure 3 the authors compare gene expression profiles of ARHGAP18 knockout cells to wild-type cells. They see lots of differences in focal adhesion and cytoskeletal proteins and conclude that this supports their conclusion that ARHGAP18 is not just acting through RHO. The rationale for this in not clear. In addition, they observe changes in expression profiles consistent with changes in YAP activity. They conclude that the effects are direct. This very well might be true. However RHO is a potent regulator of YAP activity and the results seem quite consistent with ARHGAP18 acting through RHO to affect YAP.

• *

We thank the reviewer for their comment and believe the revised manuscript now presents direct evidence to support the conclusions made through the editing text and the incorporation of new data.

• *

First, the reviewer highlighted that we were not clear in our rationale and explanation of the conclusions made from our RNAseq data in the new Figure 4 (Previously Figure 3). We agree with the reviewer that the RNAseq data alone is not sufficient rationale for the conclusion that ARHGAP18 is acting through YAP directly. In the revised manuscript, the conclusion is now made based on the combination of our multi-faceted investigation of the relationship between ARHGAP18 and YAP (most importantly, new Figure 5). It's important for us to argue that our RNAseq analysis is much more robust and specific than simply reporting a descriptive assay seeing lots of differences in cytoskeletal proteins. We recruited an outside RNAseq expert collaborator; Dr. Yongho Bae, to perform state-of-the-art IPA analysis and a grueling manual curation of the top hit genes to identify the predominant signaling pathways linking the loss of ARHGAP18 to known YAP translational products. We've provided a supplemental table listing each citation supporting the identified YAP pathway associations from this manual curation. We also have added a new discussion paragraph on RNAseq data to clarify our specific RNAseq data results and analysis. In the revised manuscript, we have moderated our language in the results text regarding the RNAseq data to reflect the reviewer's suggestion:

• *

"Our RNAseq data alone could not independently confirm if the alterations to transcriptional signaling and expression of actin cytoskeleton proteins were through a Rho-dependent or Rho-independent mechanism."

• *

• *

Second, in this comment and the above, the reviewer highlights the need for a new experiment to directly test the Rho Independent effects of ARHGAP18, which we now provide in the new Figure 5. In this new data, we've applied an experimental design suggested by reviewer 2 regarding the same concern. In short, we've produced and expressed a point mutant variant ARHGAP18(R365A), which abolishes the Rho GAP activity while maintaining the remainder of the protein intact. This construct allows us to directly test the effects of ARHGAP18 independent from its RhoA GAP activity. We find that the GAP-deficient ARHGAP18 is able to fully rescue basal focal adhesions, indicating that the basal actin phenotype is at least in part regulated through a Rho-independent mechanism.

• *

• *

*We believe the revised manuscript, when taken in totality, provides the definitive proof requested by the reviewer. Specifically, the combination of Figure 5, where we show new data using the ARHGAP18(R365A) variant, and the result that ARHGAP18 forms a stable complex with YAP (Fig. 6G) or Merlin (Fig.6A), is supportive of direct Rho-independent molecular interactions between YAP, Merlin, and ARHGAP18. *

4) In Figure 4A showing Merlin binding to ARHGAP18 there is no control for the amount of Merlin sticking to the column as was done in Figure 4F for binding experiments with YAP. This makes it difficult to determine the significance of the observed binding.

We have performed the requested control experiment and added the results to Figure 6A.

5) The images in Figure 4C showing YAP being maintained in the nucleus more in ARHGAP18 knockout cells compared to wild-type. However the images only show a few cells and YAP localization can be highly variable depending on where you look in a field. Images with more cells and some sort of quantification would bolster this result.

We have provided quantification (Figure 6D) of what was originally Figure 4C (now Figure 6C).

Reviewer #1 (Significance (Required)):

While the phenotype of the ARHGAP18 knockout and the association of ARHGAP18 with Merlin and YAP is interesting, I found the authors conclusion that these phenotypes are due to ARHGAP18 regulation of both RHO and YAP to be based on largely correlative evidence and sometimes lacking in controls or tests for significance. In addition the authors often make overly strong conclusions based on the experimental evidence. In some instances, the rationale for how the experimental results support the conclusion is insufficiently articulated, making evaluation challenging. In general although the authors have some interesting observations, more definitive experiments with proper controls and statistical tests for significance and reproducibility are needed to justify their overall conclusions.

In the above comments, we detail the specific definitive experiments, proper controls, and statistical tests for significance, requested by the reviewer, which we believe greatly strengthen our manuscript.

Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

This manuscript investigates the Rho effector, ARHGAP18 in Jegs cells, a trophoblastic cell line. It presents a number of new pieces of data, which increase our understanding of the importance of this GAP on cell function and explains at a molecular level previous results of other workers in the field. ARHGAP18 was originally given the name "conundrum' and continues to stand apart from the majority of other GAP proteins and their functions. Hence the data here is significant and of high standard.

The data is clear, and the images are of high quality and extremely impressive in their resolution. It is significant and adds a further layer to our understanding of the regulation of cell migration, particularly in the formation and resolution of microvilli.

• *

We appreciate the reviewer's comments and supportive insights.

The data is based on the use of the cell line Jeg3. Even the authors previous publication in eLife is based only on this cell line. They need to show the conclusions are general and not specific to this line of cells. As an extension of this, is the ARHGAP18 function shown here only in transformed cells? Does the same mechanisms operate in normal cells, which respond to activation to proliferate or migrate?

• *

• We respectfully point out that the critical experiments of the prior eLife publication were validated in DLD-1 colorectal cells and not Jeg-3 cells alone (Figure 1-figure supplement 2). Our newly independent lab, established just over a year ago, is unable to perform a full expansion of the manuscript using untransformed cells, however, we agree with the reviewer's perspective and wish to address the comment to the best of our current capability. To answer the reviewers' suggestions, we have recruited Dr. Christine Schaner Tooley, an expert in mouse model system studies. In the revised manuscript, we've added new Super-Resolution SORA confocal images of endogenous ARHGAP18's localization in the intact intestinal villi tissue, and apical junctions of WT mice (Fig.1A-C). These data indicate that endogenous ARHGAP18 is enriched (but not exclusively localized) at the apical plasma membranes of normal WT epithelial cells. This localization, where both Merlin and Ezrin are present at apical membrane/ junctions under normal conditions, is a major component of the working model proposed in Fig. 7. These data also indicate that ARHGAP18 is capable of entering the nucleus in WT cells, another critical aspect of our proposed model. Collectively, our DLD-1 studies published previously and or new studies using WT mice tissue samples support the conclusion that at least some of ARHGAP18's functions described in this manuscript are not limited to Jeg3 cells.*

In endothelial cells, Lovelace et al 2017 showed localization to microtubules and that depletion of ARHGAP18 resulted in microtubule instability. The authors may like to comment on the differences. Is this a cell type difference or RhoA versus RhoC difference?

• *

In our previous publication (Lombardo Elife), we validated the finding that ARHGAP18 forms a complex with microtubules, as we detected tubulin in the ARHGAP18 pulldown experiment (Figure 1- Source Data). However, our data indicate that in Jeg3 cells ARHGAP18 does not localize to the same microtubule associated spheres observed in the Lovelace publication. We now comment on the shared conclusions and differences between this manuscript and the Lovelace et al 2017 in the discussion section.

• *

"In endothelial cells, ARHGAP18 has been reported to localize microtubules and plays a role in maintaining proper microtubule stability (Lovelace et al., 2017). In our epithelial cell culture models and WT mouse intestine, we have been unable to detect ARHGAP18 at microtubules suggesting ARHGAP18 may have additional functions is various cell types."

On pages 7,9 they conclude that MLC and basal and junctional actin are regulated through a GAP independent mechanism. The best way to show this is with overexpression of a GAP mutant.

We appreciate the reviewer's insight and have produced and expressed a GAP mutant, ARHGAP18(R365A), in our cells, directly testing our conclusion that ARHGAP18 has a GAP-independent function. These data are now presented in revised Figure 5 and explained further in response to reviewer #1.

There is a huge amount of data presented in Figure 3, but their 2 genes which they focus on, LOP1 and CORO1A, are discussed but no actual data presented in support.

We now validate the CORO1A by qPCR in Figure 4J.

• *

Reviewer #2 (Significance (Required)):

The data is significant and adds a further layer to our understanding of the regulation of cell migration, particularly in the formation and resolution of microvilli. This manuscript will be of significance to an basic science audience in the field of RhoGTPases and cell migration.

Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

The study by Murray et al explores the effects of ARHGAP18 on the actin cytoskeleton, Rho effector kinases, non-muscle myosin, and transcription. Using super resolution microscopy, they show that in ARHGAP18 KO cells there is a mixed and unexpected cytoskeleton phenotype where myosin phosphorylation appears to be increased, but actin is disorganised with reduced stress fibres, diminished focal adhesions and augmented invasiveness. They conclude that the underlying mechanisms are likely independent from RhoA. Next, they perform RNAseq using the KO cells and identify an array of dysregulated genes, including those that play crucial roles in microvilli (related to previously published findings). Analysis of the data identify gene expression changes that are relevant for altered focal adhesion (integrins). Further analysis reveals that a large cohort of the dysregulated genes are YAP targets. They then show that in ARHGAP18 KO cells YAP nuclear localization, as detected by immunostaining, is augmented; and demonstrate that immobilized ARHGAP18 protein can bind the Hippo regulator merlin as well as YAP itself.

Major comments:

1, The premise of the study (that ARHGAP18 is a RhoA effector or may acts independently of RhoA) remains not proven.

We have added new evidence of direct RhoA independent activity for ARHGAP18 described in the above comments. Specifically, we've added data using a RhoA-GAP dead variant of ARHGAP18 in Figure 5, which we believe addresses this comment.

• *

At several places (including in the title) the authors refer to ARHGAP18 as a Rho effector, which would suggest that it is downstream form Rho, but the basis for this is not clear. In fact, their own previous study suggested that ARHGAP is a RhoA regulator, rather than an effector. In general, the connection of the described effects to RhoA remains unclear, and not addressed in this study. The authors seem to go back and forth in their conclusions regarding the connection between ARHGAP18 and RhoA. For example, the first section of results is finished by stating (line 194): "These data support the conclusion that ARHGAP18 acts to regulate basal and junctional actin through Rho-independent mechanism". But the next section starts by stating (line 198): "We hypothesized that the invasive and cytoskeletal phenotypes observed at the basal surface of cells devoid of ARHGAP18 may be a result of changes in regulation at the transcriptional level either directly through RhoA signaling or through an additional mechanism specific to ARHGAP18". The paper would be strengthened by adding data that show whether the effects are indeed downstream, from RhoA or RhoA independent. If there is no sufficient demonstration that ARHGAP18 is downstream of RhoA and is an effector, this needs to be stated explicitly, and the wording should be changed.

*We now provide new data in Figure 5, which directly tests the RhoA independent functions of ARHGAP18 as recommended by the reviewer. Our understanding of the term effector is 'a molecule that activates, controls, or inactivates a process or action.' Based on this understanding, we used the term to convey ARHGAP18's functional role within the feedback loop, rather than to imply that it acts exclusively downstream. *

• *

We seek to clarify our perspective with the reviewer's assertion that we go "back and forth" as to if ARHGAP18 functions in a Rho Dependent or Rho Independent manner. It was our intent to propose a model where ARHGAP 18 acts in two separate circuits that regulate cell signaling. The first circuit involves ARHGAP18's canonical RhoA GAP activity, which involves ERMs and LOK/SLK, and is limited to the apical plasma membrane. This first signaling circuit was characterized in our prior Elife manuscript (Lombardo et al., 2024) and in an earlier JCB manuscript (Zaman and Lombardo et al., 2021). In this newly revised manuscript, we provide a partial mechanistic characterization of the second circuit, which we freely admit is much more complex and will likely require additional study to fully characterize.

• *

As both circuits operate as signaling feedback loops, we find the terms 'upstream' and 'downstream' to be of limited value, and we attempt to avoid their use when possible. We retain their use only when referring to the Hippo and ROCK signaling cascades, where these designations are well established. We suggest that the conceptual inconsistencies of Conundrum/ARHGAP18 may have arisen from the tendency to view it in strictly binary terms as upstream or downstream. Here, we propose a third possibility that ARHGAP18 functions as both, participating in a negative feedback loop.

• *

*We have edited and added data testing if the effects are Rho independent and discussion text in response to the reviewer's comments and clarify the molecular function of ARHGAP18.

"Additionally, focal adhesions and basal actin bundles are restored to WT levels when the ARHGAP18(R365A) GAP-ablated mutant is expressed in ARHGAP18 KO cells (Fig. 5A, B). These results represent the strongest argument that ARHGAP18 functions in additional pathways to RhoA/C alone. Our data suggests that at least one of the alternative pathways is through ARHGAP18's interaction with YAP and Merlin. From these data we conclude that ARHGAP18 has important functions in both RhoA signaling through both its GAP activity and in Hippo signaling through its GAP independent binding partners. "*

• *

• *

The study is descriptive and contains a series of observations that are not connected. Because of this, the study's conclusions are not well supported, and key mechanistic insight is limited. The study feels like a set of separate observations, that remain incompletely worked out and have some preliminary feel to them. The model in the last figure also seems to contain hypotheses based on the observations, several of which remains to be proven.

• *

*We present our revised manuscript, in which we've more clearly outlined our rationale and conclusions, as detailed in the above responses, to emphasize the overall connectivity of the study. We have also updated the title of Figure 7 to read "__Theoretical __Model of ARHGAP18's coordination of RhoA and Hippo signaling pathways in Human epithelial cells." To make it clear that we are presenting a working model, which has elements that will require additional investigation. Throughout the manuscript, we highlight the unknown elements that remain to be tested or other outstanding questions. Thus, we do not aim to characterize this complex signaling coordination completely. Instead, this manuscript represents the 3rd iteration in our systematic advances to describe this entirely new signaling pathway. We agree that, despite three separate manuscripts (this one included) to date, this work represents an early stage in understanding the system, many additional studies will be needed to characterize this signaling system fully. Figure 7 is presented as a working model that results from a thoughtful combination of our collective data and that of other researchers, derived from numerous species across decades of study. We firmly believe that proposing such integrative models is valuable for advancing the field. We also recognize the importance of clearly indicating which aspects remain hypothetical. We now explicitly note in several places within the discussion which components of the model will require further validation and experimental confirmation. For example, regarding our theoretical mechanism in Figure 7 we state: *

"Validation of the direct mechanism by which YAP/TAZ transcriptional changes drive basal actin changes in ARHGAP18 KO cells will require further investigation based on predictions from RNAseq results."

• *

Addressing any possible connection between key effects of ARHGAP18 KO (changes in actin, focal adhesion, integrins, Yap and merlin binding) could strengthen the manuscript. One such specific question is the whether the changes in integrin expression (RNAseq) are indeed connected to the actin alterations and reduction ion focal adhesions (Fig 1). Staining for these integrins to show they are indeed altered, and/or manipulating any of them to reproduce changes could provide and exciting addition.

• *

*We attempted to stain cells for Integrins by purchasing three separate antibodies. However, despite extensive optimization and careful selection of the specific integrins using our RNAseq results we were unable to get any of these antibodies to work in any cell type or condition. We believe that there is a technical challenge to staining for integrins due to their transmembrane and extracellular components, which we were unable to overcome. As an attempt to address the reviewers comment, we alternatively stained cells for paxillin which directly binds the cytoplasmic tails of integrins (Fig. 3&5). *

Some of the experimental findings are not convincing or lack controls. Fig 1: some of the western blots are not convincing or poor quality. [...] On the same figure, the quality of LIM kinase blots is poor. [...] The signal is weak, and the blot does not appear to support the quantification. The last condition (expression of flag-ARHGAP18) results in a large drop in pLIMK and pcofilin on the blot, which is not reflected by the graph. Addition of *a better blot and the use of strong positive or negative control would boost confidence in these data. *

• *

In response to this and other reviewers' comments, we have added new western data and quantification to Figure 1. We now focus on MLC/pMLC data as we believe these data highlight the potential Rho-independent mechanism of ARHGAP18, and we were able to greatly improve the quality of the blots through careful optimization. We hope the reviewer finds these blots and quantifications (Fig. 1E and F) more convincing.

*We note that phospho-specific Western blotting presents considerably greater technical challenges than conventional blotting. We believe that the appearance of an attractive looking blot does not always correlate to quality or reproducibility and have focused on taking extraordinarily careful steps in the blotting of our phospho-specific antibodies, which at times comes at the cost of the blot's attractiveness in appearance. For example, all phospho-specific antibodies are run using two color fluorescent markers to blot against both the total protein and the phospho-protein on the same blot. This approach often leads to blots that have reduced signal to noise compared to chemiluminescent Westerns. Additionally, we use phospho-specific blocking buffer reagents which do not contain phosphate-based buffers or agents that attract non-specific phospho-staining signals. These blocking buffers are not as effective as non-fat milk in pbs at blocking the background signal, however, they are ultimately cleaner for phospho-specific primary antibodies. We use carefully optimized protocols, from cell treatment to lysis, transfer, and antibody incubation, including methods developed by laboratories where the corresponding author of the manuscript was trained. Nonetheless, despite these efforts, we have now removed the LIMK and cofilin data because we deemed them unnecessary for the main conclusions of this manuscript and were unable to improve their quality to satisfy the reviewer. *

The changes in pMLC on the western blots are very small, and for any conclusion, these studies require quantification. Further, the expression levels of Flag-ARHGAP18 needs to be shown to support the statement that the protein is expressed, and indeed overexpressed under these conditions (vs just re-expressed).

In continuation of the above comment, we have made significant effort to improve the quality of our pMLC western blots and now provide quantification in Figure 1. We also now provide the Flag-ARHGAP18 signal as requested by the reviewer.

Fig 4: the differences in YAP nuclear localization under the various conditions are not well visible. Quantitation of nuclear/cytosolic signal ratio should be provided. Please provide a rationale and more context for using serum starvation and re-addition. What is the expected effect? Serum removal and addition is referred to as nutrient removal and re-addition, but this is inaccurate, as it does not equal nutrient removal, since serum contains a variety of other important components, e.g. growth factors too.

We have provided new quantification of the nuclear/cytosolic signal ratio in Figure 6D. We have explained our rational for the study through the following new text:

"Merlin is activated and localized to junctions upon signaling, promoting growth and proliferation; among these signals is the availability of growth factors and other components of serum (Bretscher et al., 2002). We hypothesized that since ARHGAP18 formed a complex with Merlin that ARHGAP18's localization may localize to junctions under conditions which promote Merlin activation."

• *

We have altered our use of "nutrient removal" to "serum removal"

The binding between ARHGAP18 and merlin is interesting, but a key limitation is the use of expressed proteins. Can the binding be shown for the endogenous proteins (IP, colocalization). Another important unaddressed question is the relevance of this binding, and the relation of this to altered YAP nuclear localization.

• *

*Our data in Fig. 6G shows binding of a resin bound human ARHGAP18 to endogenous YAP from human cells as suggested by the reviewer. In Fig. 6A, we have selected to use GFP-Merlin as Merlin shares approximately 60% sequence identity with Ezrin, Radixin, and Moesin (ERMs). Their similarity is such that Merlin was named for Moesin-Ezrin-Radixin-Like Protein. In our experience, nearly all Merlin or ERM antibodies have some cross-contaminating signal. Thus, a major concern is that if we were to blot for endogenous Merlin in the pull-down experiment, we may see a band that could in fact be ERMs. To avoid this, we tagged Merlin with GFP to ensure that the product pulled down by ARHGAP18 was Merlin, not an ERM. Regarding the ARHGAP18-resin bound column, our homemade ARHGAP18 antibody is polyclonal. We have extensive experience in pulldown assays and have found that the binding of a polyclonal antibody to the bait protein can produce less accurate results, as the binding site for the antibody is unknown and can sterically hinder attachment of target proteins like Merlin. In our experience, attachment to a flag-tag, which is expressed after a flexible linker at the N- or C-terminus, allows us to overcome this limitation, which we've used in this manuscript. *

Minor comments:

Introduction line 99: "When localized to the nucleus, YAP/TAZ promotes the activation of cytoskeletal transcription factors associated with cell proliferation and actin polymerization" Please clarify what you mean by this statement, that is inaccurate in its present for. Did you mean effects on transcription factors that control cytoskeletal proteins, or do you mean that Yap/Taz affect these proteins? Please also provide reference for this.

We've altered the sentence as suggested by the reviewer, which now reads the following:

"When localized to the nucleus, YAP/TAZ promotes transcriptional changes associated with cell proliferation and actin polymerization."

• *

*The full mechanism for how YAP/TAZ promotes proliferation and actin polymerization is a currently debated issue. We do not think introducing the various current proposed models is required for this manuscript, and we simply intend to convey that when in the nucleus, YAP/TAZ promotes transcriptional changes that drive actin polymerization and cell proliferation. *

-What is the cell confluence in these experiments? For epithelial cells confluence affects actin structure. Please comment on similarity of confluency across experimental conditions?

• *

All cellular experiments are paired where WT and ARHGAP18 KO cells are plated at the same time under identical conditions. For imaging, we plate all cells onto glass coverslips in a 6 well dish so that each condition is literally in the same cell culture plate and gets identical treatment. In our prior Elife paper studying ARHGAP18, we characterized that ARHGAP18 KO cells and WT cells divide at a similar rate and have similar proliferation characteristics. The epithelial cell cultures are maintained for experiments around 70-80% confluency. For the focal adhesion staining experiments, the confluency is slightly lower, between 50-60% to capture the focal adhesions towards the leading edge. We have added the following new text to further describe these methods: "Cell cultures for experiments were maintained at 70%-80% confluency. For focal adhesion experiments, the cell cultures were maintained at 50%-60% confluency."

-Fig 2 legend: please indicate that the protein detected was non-muscle myosin heavy chain (distinct from the light chain detected in Fig 1).

• *

We have altered original Figure 2 (new Figure 3) legend.

-Line 339-340: please check the syntax of this sentence -Western blot quantification: the comparison of experiments with samples run on different gels/blots requires careful normalization and experimental consistency. Please describe how this was achieved.

• *

We have added the following new text to further describe these methods:

"For blots which required quantification of antibodies that were only rabbit primaries (e.g., pMLC/MLC antibodies listed above), samples were loaded onto a single gel and transferred onto a single membrane at the same time. After transfer, the membrane was cut in half and subsequent steps were done in parallel. All quantified blots were checked for equal loading using either anti-tubulin as a housekeeping protein or total protein as detected by Coomassie staining"

Reviewer #3 (Significance (Required)):

Rho signalling is a central regulator of an array of normal and pathological cell functions, and our understanding of the context dependent regulation of this key pathway remains very incomplete. Therefore, new knowledge on the role of specific regulators, such as ARHGAP18, is of interest to a very broad range of researchers. A further exciting aspect of this protein, that despite indications by many studies that it acts as a GAP (inhibitor) for Rho proteins, there are findings in the literature that suggest that its manipulation can affect actin in unexpected (opposite) manner. These point to possible Rho-independent roles, and warranted further in-depth exploration.

One of the strength of the study is that it explores possible roles of ARHGAP18 beyond RhoA and describes some new and interesting observations, which advance our knowledge. The authors use some excellent tools (e.g. ARHGAP KO cells and re-expression) and approaches (e.g. super resolution microscopy to analyze actin changes, RNAseq and bioinformatics to find genes that may be downstream from ARHGAP18). A key limitation of the study however, is that it is not clear whether the observed findings are indeed independent from RhoA. Further limitation is that potential causal relationships between the described findings are not studied, and therefore the findings are in some cases overinterpreted, and limited mechanistic insights are provided. In some cases the exclusive use of expressed proteins is also a limitation. Finally, some of the experiments also need improvement.

Reviewer expertise: RhoA signalling, guanine nucleotide exchange factors, epithelial biology, cell migration, intercellular junctions.

In the above comments, we detail the new experimental data addressing reviewer 3's listed key limitations. We've added new data using the Rho GAP deficient ARHGAP18(R365A) variant which allows for the direct characterization of ARHGAP18's Rho independent activity. We have introduced new data in WT cells studying endogenous proteins to address the limitations from expressed proteins. Finally, we have moderated our language to address overinterpretation. Collectively, we believe that our revised manuscript addresses the constructive reviewer's comments.

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Referee #3

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

The study by Murray et al explores the effects of ARHGAP18 on the actin cytoskeleton, Rho effector kinases, non-muscle myosin, and transcription. Using super resolution microscopy, they show that in ARHGAP18 KO cells there is a mixed and unexpected cytoskeleton phenotype where myosin phosphorylation appears to be increased, but actin is disorganised with reduced stress fibres, diminished focal adhesions and augmented invasiveness. They conclude that the underlying mechanisms are likely independent from RhoA. Next, they perform RNAseq using the KO cells and identify an array of dysregulated genes, including those that play crucial roles in microvilli (related to previously published findings). Analysis of the data identify gene expression changes that are relevant for altered focal adhesion (integrins). Further analysis reveals that a large cohort of the dysregulated genes are YAP targets. They then show that in ARHGAP18 KO cells YAP nuclear localization, as detected by immunostaining, is augmented; and demonstrate that immobilized ARHGAP18 protein can bind the Hippo regulator merlin as well as YAP itself.

Major comments:

1. The premise of the study (that ARHGAP18 is a RhoA effector or may acts independently of RhoA) remains not proven. At several places (including in the title) the authors refer to ARHGAP18 as a Rho effector, which would suggest that it is downstream form Rho, but the basis for this is not clear. In fact, their own previous study suggested that ARHGAP is a RhoA regulator, rather than an effector. In general, the connection of the described effects to RhoA remains unclear, and not addressed in this study. The authors seem to go back and forth in their conclusions regarding the connection between ARHGAP18 and RhoA. For example, the first section of results is finished by stating (line 194): "These data support the conclusion that ARHGAP18 acts to regulate basal and junctional actin through Rho-independent mechanism". But the next section starts by stating (line 198): "We hypothesized that the invasive and cytoskeletal phenotypes observed at the basal surface of cells devoid of ARHGAP18 may be a result of changes in regulation at the transcriptional level either directly through RhoA signaling or through an additional mechanism specific to ARHGAP18". The paper would be strengthened by adding data that show whether the effects are indeed downstream, from RhoA or RhoA independent. If there is no sufficient demonstration that ARHGAP18 is downstream of RhoA and is an effector, this needs to be stated explicitly and the wording should be changed.
2. The study is descriptive and contains a series of observations that are not connected. Because of this, the study's conclusions are not well supported, and key mechanistic insight is limited. The study feels like a set of separate observations, that remain incompletely worked out and have some preliminary feel to them. The model in the last figure also seems to contain hypotheses based on the observations, several of which remains to be proven. Addressing any possible connection between key effects of ARHGAP18 KO (changes in actin, focal adhesion, integrins, Yap and merlin binding) could strengthen the manuscript. One such specific question is the whether the changes in integrin expression (RNAseq) are indeed connected to the actin alterations and reduction ion focal adhesions (Fig 1). Staining for these integrins to show they are indeed altered, and/or manipulating any of them to reproduce changes could provide and exciting addition.
3. Some of the experimental findings are not convincing or lack controls.

Fig 1: some of the western blots are not convincing or poor quality. The changes in pMLC on the western blots are very small, and for any conclusion, these studies require quantification. Further, the expression levels of Flag-ARHGAP18 needs to be shown to support the statement that the protein is expressed, and indeed overexpressed under these conditions (vs just re-expressed). On the same figure, the quality of LIM kinase blots is poor. The signal is weak, and the blot does not appear to support the quantification. The last condition (expression of flag-ARHGAP18) results in a large drop in pLIMK and pcofilin on the blot, which is not reflected by the graph. Addition of a better blot and the use of a strong positive or negative control would boost confidence in these data.

Fig 4: the differences in YAP nuclear localization under the various conditions are not well visible. Quantitation of nuclear/cytosolic signal ratio should be provided. 4. Please provide a rationale and more context for using serum starvation and re-addition. What is the expected effect? Serum removal and addition is referred to as nutrient removal and re-addition, but this is inaccurate, as it does not equal nutrient removal, since serum contains a variety of other important components, e.g. growth factors too. 5. The binding between ARHGAP18 and merlin is interesting, but a key limitation is the use of expressed proteins. Can the binding be shown for the endogenous proteins (IP, colocalization). Another important unaddressed question is the relevance of this binding, and the relation of this to altered YAP nuclear localization.

Minor comments:

• Introduction line 99: "When localized to the nucleus, YAP/TAZ promotes the activation of cytoskeletal transcription factors associated with cell proliferation and actin polymerization" Please clarify what you mean by this statement, that is inaccurate in its present for. Did you mean effects on transcription factors that control cytoskeletal proteins, or do you mean that Yap/Taz affect these proteins? Please also provide reference for this.
• What is the cell confluence in these experiments? For epithelial cells confluence affects actin structure. Please comment on similarity of confluency across experimental conditions?
• Fig 2 legend: please indicate that the protein detected was non-muscle myosin heavy chain (distinct from the light chain detected in Fig 1).
• Line 339-340: please check the syntax of this sentence
• Western blot quantification: the comparison of experiments with samples run on different gels/blots requires careful normalization and experimental consistency. Please describe how this was achieved.

Significance

Rho signalling is a central regulator of an array of normal and pathological cell functions, and our understanding of the context dependent regulation of this key pathway remains very incomplete. Therefore, new knowledge on the role of specific regulators, such as ARHGAP18, is of interest to a very broad range of researchers. A further exciting aspect of this protein, that despite indications by many studies that it acts as a GAP (inhibitor) for Rho proteins, there are findings in the literature that suggest that its manipulation can affect actin in unexpected (opposite) manner. These point to possible Rho-independent roles, and warranted further in-depth exploration. One of the strength of the study is that it explores possible roles of ARHGAP18 beyond RhoA and describes some new and interesting observations, which advance our knowledge. The authors use some excellent tools (e.g. ARHGAP KO cells and re-expression) and approaches (e.g. super resolution microscopy to analyze actin changes, RNAseq and bioinformatics to find genes that may be downstream from ARHGAP18). A key limitation of the study however, is that it is not clear whether the observed findings are indeed independent from RhoA. Further limitation is that potential causal relationships between the described findings are not studied, and therefore the findings are in some cases overinterpreted, and limited mechanistic insights are provided. In some cases the exclusive use of expressed proteins is also a limitation. Finally, some of the experiments also need improvement.<br /> Reviewer expertise: RhoA signalling, guanine nucleotide exchange factors, epithelial biology, cell migration, intercellular junctions.

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Referee #2

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

This manuscript investigates the Rho effector, ARHGAP18 in Jegs cells, a trophoblastic cell line. It presents a number of new pieces of data, which increase our understanding of the importance of this GAP on cell function and explains at a molecular level previous results of other workers in the field. ARHGAP18 was originally given the name "conundrum' and continues to stand apart from the majority of other GAP proteins and their functions. Hence the data here is significant and of high standard.

The data is clear, and the images are of high quality and extremely impressive in their resolution. It is significant and adds a further layer to our understanding of the regulation of cell migration, particularly in the formation and resolution of microvilli.

The data is based on the use of the cell line Jeg3. Even the authors previous publication in eLife is based only on this cell line. They need to show the conclusions are general and not specific to this line of cells. As an extension of this, is the ARHGAP18 function shown here only in transformed cells? Does the same mechanisms operate in normal cells, which respond to activation to proliferate or migrate? In endothelial cells, Lovelace et al 2017 showed localisation to microtubules and that depletion of ARHGAP18 resulted in microtubule instability. The authors may like to comment on the differences. Is this a cell type difference or RhoA versus RhoC difference?

On pages 7,9 they conclude that MLC and basal and junctional actin are regulated through a GAP independent mechanism. The best way to show this is with overexpression of a GAP mutant.

There is a huge amount of data presented in Figure 3, but their 2 genes which they focus on, LOP1 and CORO1A, are discussed but no actual data presented in support.

Significance

The data is significant and adds a further layer to our understanding of the regulation of cell migration, particularly in the formation and resolution of microvilli.

This manuscript will be of significance to an basic science audience in the field of RhoGTPases and cell migration.

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Referee #1

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

This manuscript describes a dual mechanism by which ARHGAP18 regulates the actin cytoskeleton. The authors propose that in addition to the known role for ARHGAP18 in regulating Rho GTPases, it also affects the cytoskeleton through regulation of the Hippo pathway transcriptional regulator YAP. ARHGAP18 knockout Jeg3 cells are were generated and show a clear loss of basal stress fiber like F-actin bundles. The authors further characterize the effects of ARHGAP18 knockout and overexpression. It is also discovered that ARHGAP18 binds to the Hippo pathway regulator Merlin and to YAP. Ultimately it is concluded that ARHGAP18 regulates the F-actin cytoskeleton through dual regulation of RHO GTPases and of YAP. While the phenotype of the ARHGAP18 knockout and the association of ARHGAP18 with Merlin and YAP is interesting, I found the authors conclusion that these phenotypes are due to ARHGAP18 regulation of both RHO and YAP to be based on largely correlative evidence and sometimes lacking in controls or tests for significance. In addition the authors often make overly strong conclusions based on the experimental evidence. In some instances, the rationale for how the experimental results support the conclusion is insufficiently articulated, making evaluation challenging. In general although the authors have some interesting observations, more definitive experiments with proper controls and statistical tests for significance and reproducibility are needed to justify their overall conclusions.

Specific Comments

1) The authors make a big point about the effects of ARHGAP18 on myosin light chain phosphorylation. However this result is not quantified and tested for statistical significance and reproducibility.

2) Along similar lines in Figure 2C they state that overexpression of ARHGAP18 causes cells to invade over the top of their neighbors. This might be true and interesting, but only a single cell is shown and there is no quantification or controls for simply overexpressing something in that cell. The authors also conclude from this image that the overexpression phenotype is independent of its GAP activity on Rho. It is not clear how this conclusion is made based on the data. It would seem like a more definitive experiment would be to see if a similar phenotype was induced by an ARHGAP18 mutant deficient in GAP activity.

3) In Figure 3 the authors compare gene expression profiles of ARHGAP18 knockout cells to wild-type cells. They see lots of differences in focal adhesion and cytoskeletal proteins and conclude that this supports their conclusion that ARHGAP18 is not just acting through RHO. The rationale for this in not clear. In addition, they observe changes in expression profiles consistent with changes in YAP activity. They conclude that the effects are direct. This very well might be true. However RHO is a potent regulator of YAP activity and the results seem quite consistent with ARHGAP18 acting through RHO to affect YAP.

4) In Figure 4A showing Merlin binding to ARHGAP18 there is no control for the amount of Merlin sticking to the column as was done in Figure 4F for binding experiments with YAP. This makes it difficult to determine the significance of the observed binding.

5) The images in Figure 4C showing YAP being maintained in the nucleus more in ARHGAP18 knockout cells compared to wild-type. However the images only show a few cells and YAP localization can be highly variable depending on where you look in a field. Images with more cells and some sort of quantification would bolster this result.

Significance

While the phenotype of the ARHGAP18 knockout and the association of ARHGAP18 with Merlin and YAP is interesting, I found the authors conclusion that these phenotypes are due to ARHGAP18 regulation of both RHO and YAP to be based on largely correlative evidence and sometimes lacking in controls or tests for significance. In addition the authors often make overly strong conclusions based on the experimental evidence. In some instances, the rationale for how the experimental results support the conclusion is insufficiently articulated, making evaluation challenging. In general although the authors have some interesting observations, more definitive experiments with proper controls and statistical tests for significance and reproducibility are needed to justify their overall conclusions.

I think that ths statement is true because when people get into new things, it seems weird at first but when you adapt to the new habit and start to gradually become better then it eventually becomes a hobby.

for - genes subservient to culture - We speculate that, in the long term, culture will continue to grow in influence over human evolution - until genes become secondary structures that encode human biological design blueprints - but are ultimately governed by culture.

for - cell intelligence - the cell knowns when to divide - it won't divide until all replication errors have been fixed

for - unanswered question - when cells know when to divide

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Reply to the reviewers

Dear editor and reviewers,

We sincerely thank you for your thoughtful comments and constructive suggestions, which have greatly improved the quality and clarity of our manuscript. In response, we have implemented all requested changes, which are highlighted in yellow throughout the revised text, and updated several figures accordingly. Furthermore, we have performed all additional experiments recommended by the reviewers and incorporated the new data into the manuscript. To enhance clarity, we have also included a schematic representation of our proposed model in an additional figure, providing a concise visual summary of our findings.

We hope that these revisions fully address all concerns raised by the reviewers and meet all the expectations for publication.

Below, we answer the reviewers point by point (in blue).

---

Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

In this paper, the authors address the important question of the role of centrosomes during neuronal development. They use Drosophila as an in vivo model. The field is somewhat unclear on the role and importance of centrosomes during neuronal development, although the current data would suggest they are dispensable for axon specification and growth. Early studies in cultured mammalian neurons showed that centrosomes are active and that their microtubules can be cut and transported into the neurites. But a study then showed that centrosomes in these cultured neurons are deactivated relatively early during neuronal development in vitro and that ablating centrosomes even when they are active had no obvious effect on axon specification and growth. Consistent with this, a study in Drosophila provided evidence that centrosomes were not active or necessary in different types of neurons. More recently, a study showed that centrosomal microtubules are dispensable for axon specification and growth in mice in vivo but are required for neuronal migration in the cerebral cortex. However, another study has linked the generation of acetylated microtubules at centrosomes with axon development. In this current study, the authors examine the effect of centrosome loss on various motor and sensory neurons and muscles mainly by examining mutants in essential centriole duplication genes. They associate axonal routing and morphology defects with centrosome loss and provide some evidence that centrosomes could still be active in the developing neurons. Overall, they conclude that centrosomes are active during at least early neuronal development and that this activity is important for proper axonal morphology and routing.

While I think this study addressing a very interesting and important question, I think as it stands the data is not sufficient to be conclusive on a role for centrosomes during neuronal development. My biggest concern is that most phenotypes have not yet been shown to be cell autonomous, as whole animal mutants have been analysed rather than analysing the effect of cell-specific depletion, and the evidence for active centrosomes needs to be strengthened. If the authors can provide stronger evidence for a role of centrosomes in axonal development then the paper will certainly be of interest to a broad readership.

We thank the reviewer for the clear and concise summary and fully agree that our study addresses a critical gap in understanding. Centrosomes have long been implicated in morphogenesis, yet their precise contribution to nervous system development has remained unclear. Our findings provide compelling evidence that centrosomes are indispensable for proper nervous system formation and that their absence also triggers muscular defects, highlighting their broader role in tissue organization.

We acknowledge that the original manuscript lacked some key details; therefore, we have now strengthened our conclusions with additional experiments. Specifically, we demonstrate that these effects are cell-autonomous by using two independent RNAi lines targeted to a subset of motor neurons. Furthermore, we present new data showing that neuronal centrosomes remain active during the early stages of axonal development, emphasising their functional relevance in morphogenesis. All new experiments, figures, and corresponding text revisions are detailed below.

Major comments 1) The sas-6 transallelic combination shows only 17% embryonic lethality compared to 50% embryonic lethality with sas-4 mutants. Given that both mutants should result in the same degree of centrosome loss (this should be quantified in sas-6 mutants) it would suggest that either sas-4 has other roles away from centrosomes or that the sas-4 mutant chromosome used in the experiment has other mutations that affect viability. The effect of picking up "second-site lethal" mutations on mutant chromosomes is common and so I would not be surprised if this is the reason for the difference in phenotypes. This can be addressed either by "cleaning up" the sas-4 mutant chromosome by backcrossing to wild-type lines, allowing recombination to occur and replace the potential second site mutations, or by using transallelic combinations of sas-4, as they did for sas-6. The "easier" option may just be to analyse all the phenotypes with the sas-6 transallelic combination.

We appreciate this comment, as it brought to light an issue with the CRISPR line Sas-6-Δa. Upon reanalysing all the data, we determined that this line is embryonic lethal both in homozygosis and when combined with the deficiency uncovering the genomic region, Df(3R)BSC794. In contrast, Sas-6-Δb homozygotes are viable. The inconsistency between these results raised concerns about whether the Δa and Δb Sas-6 mutants carry deletions confined to the Sas-6 coding region. Although this would not hinder our cell biology analysis, it could represent a problem in viability tests. To address this, we repeated all analyses using Sas-6-Δb homozygotes and Sas-6-Δb combined with Df(3R)BSC794. These new results are more consistent and indicate that approximately 50% of Sas-6/Def individuals hatch as adults. Fig. 3 was redone and the manuscript text changed in view of these results.

2) Using "whole animal" mutants for assessing neuronal morphology is risky due to non-cell-autonomous effects. The authors have carried out some phenotypic analysis of neurons depleted of Sas-4 by cell-specific RNAi, but I feel they need to do this for all of their analysis. This includes embryonic lethality measures, quantification of centrosome numbers, and all axonal phenotypes in Sas-4 RNAi neurons. It would also be prudent to use 2 distinct RNAi lines to help ensure any phenotypes are not off-target effects (and this may help clarify why the authors see some additional phenotypes with RNAi). Indeed, there are relatively weak phenotypes in muscles when using RNAi compared to the mutants and these potential non-cell-autonomous effects could then have a knock-on effect on neuronal morphology. If the authors were concerned that RNAi is not very efficient (explaining any potential weaker phenotypes than in mutants) the authors could examine the effectiveness of RNAi lines by analysing protein depletion by western blotting or mRNA depletion by rt-qPCR (although this has to be done in a different cell type due to the difficulty in obtaining a neuronal extract).

We have now added a new panel to supplementary Figure 1, showing how the expression of a different Sas-4 RNAi line (2) induces similar nervous system phenotypes when expressed only in aCC, pCC and RP2 pioneer neurons (Sup. Fig. 1 M-O).

3) When analysing centriole presence or absence it is a good idea to stain with two different centriole markers e.g. Asl and Plp. This helps rule out unspecific staining. It is clear from the images that similar sized foci can be observed outside of the cells (see Figure 5A for example), so clearly some of the foci that appear to be within the cells may also be unspecific staining.

In a new supplementary figure, we now show that Asl and Plp colocalize and quantify the number of times we find this colocalization in neurons (Supl. Fig 3). In addition, and we apologise for the confusion, but the reason why there are foci outside the marked cells is because these are wholemount embryonic stainings and the anti-Plp antibody marks all centrosomes in all cells in the embryo.

4) The evidence for active centrosomes is not that convincing. Acetylated tubulin is associated with stable MTs, which are not normally organised by "active" centrosomes that nucleate dynamic microtubules. Moreover, it is plausible that centriole foci happen to overlap with the acetylated tubulin staining by chance. This would explain why not all centrosomes colocalise with acetylated tubulin signal. The authors could better test centrosome activity by performing live imaging with EB1-GFP. If centrosomes are active, it is very easy to observe the many comets produced by the centrosomes.

We appreciate the reviewer’s comment and agree that acetylated tubulin alone is not an ideal marker for centrosome activity. To address this, we performed live imaging of aCC neurons expressing EB1-GFP together with Asl-Tomato. This was technically challenging because we were imaging only two neurons per segment in live embryos, under significant limitations in fluorescence detection and timing. Despite these constraints, we were able to clearly observe EB1 comets emerging from the centrosome and moving toward the cell periphery, providing direct evidence of microtubule nucleation from centrosomes in neurons.

Importantly, we complemented this with a microtubule depolymerization/polymerization assay, which provides unequivocal evidence that polymerization initiates at the centrosome. After depolymerization, we observed microtubule regrowth from the centrosome, confirming its role as an active microtubule-organizing centre in these neurons. Together, we hope that these results are enough to demonstrate that neuronal centrosomes are functionally active during early axonal development. These experiments are presented in Figure 6 and corresponding text in the manuscript.

5) If the authors believe that centrosomes have a role in axon pathfinding in sensory neurons, they should show that these centrosomes are active, at least during early stages (again using EB1-GFP imaging).

We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion and agree that EB1-GFP imaging would be the most direct way to assess centrosome activity in sensory neurons. However, performing time-lapse imaging in these neurons is technically very demanding due to their location and accessibility in live embryos, and we did not attempt this approach. Instead, we now provide new evidence showing that sensory neuron centrosomes colocalize with both α-tubulin and γ-tubulin. This strongly supports that these centrosomes are associated with microtubule nucleation machinery and are as likely as motor neuron centrosomes to be active during early stages of axon development. These new data have been included in the revised manuscript (see Figure 5 and corresponding text).

6) The authors mention in the discussion that "increased JNK activity, can result in axonal wiggliness (Karkali et al, 2023)". I therefore wonder whether centrosome loss may induce JNK activation (the stress response), as this would then indicate an indirect effect of centrosome loss on axonal structure rather than a direct influence of centrosome-generated microtubules. The authors could assess whether the DNK-JNK pathway is activated in neurons lacking centrosomes by expression UAS-Puc-GFP and quantifying the nuclear signal.

In a new supplementary figure, we now show by using a reporter for JNK signalling, as requested, that Sas-4 neurons do not activate the JNK pathway (Supl. Fig 4).

7) In Figure 5, the authors claim that they find "a correlation between axonal guidance phenotypes and the numbers of centrioles per embryo". I don't think this is a strong correlation. The difference in centriole number between embryos with no defects and those with defects is very small. In contrast, the difference between centriole numbers in control (no defects) and mutant (no defects) is very large. So, there does not appear to be a strong correlation between centrosome number and phenotype.

We agree and we have corrected this sentence to better explain the results.

Minor comments

1) I don't understand Figure 3C - why do the % of surviving homozygotes and heterozygotes add up to 100%? Should the grey boxes not relate to dead and the white to surviving?

Thank you for pointing this out. Figures 1B and 3C represent only the surviving individuals. The grey boxes correspond to surviving homozygotes, and the white boxes correspond to surviving heterozygotes. The percentages add up to 100% only at embryonic stages because all embryos reach late embryonic stages. The grey and white boxes reflect the proportion of these two genotypes among the survivors, not the total number of embryos including those that died. We have changed the text to convey this.

2) "In mouse fibroblasts, myoblasts and endothelial cells, centrosome orientation is important for nuclear positioning and cell migration(Chang et al, 2015; Gomes et al, 2005; Kushner et al, 2014)." Do you mean "centrosome position"?

Yes, text changed, thank you for spotting it.

3) In the introduction, the authors mention Meka et al. when saying the centrosomal microtubules are important for axonal development, but they should also discuss the counter argument from Vinopal et al., 2023 (Neuron) that showed how centrosomes were required for neuronal migration but not axon growth, which was instead mediated by Golgi-derived microtubules.

Done, thank you very much.

4) Lines 228-230 - repeated sentence

Corrected, thank you very much.

5) Additionally, we did not detect centrioles in the quadrant opposite the axon exit point (Fig. 2B n=75) - this data is not in Fig 2B

Correct, it is in figure 4B, thank you very much.

6) "This significant decrease in the humber of centrioles further supports the critical role of Sas-4 in pioneer neurons of the ventral nerve cord (VNC) during Drosophila embryogenesis". It rather highlights that Sas-4 is required for centriole formation in these neurons. Also, humber = number.

We agree, and have changed the text, thank you very much.

7) Result title: Non-ciliated sensory neurons have centrioles. This is kind of obvious. A better title may be "axon phenotypes correlate with centriole numbers in sensory neurons" but unfortunately i don't think there is good evidence for this (See major point above).

We agree and we have changed. We now believe we have strong evidence to support it. We hope the additional data presented in the revision convincingly demonstrate this point.

Reviewer #1 (Significance (Required)):

As mentioned above, the advance will be important if more evidence is provided. In this case, the paper will be interesting to a broad readership. But currently the paper is limited by the lack of evidence for centrosome function and activity in the neurons.

We hope that reviewer 1, now considers that the manuscript is not limited anymore and that it shows convincing evidence for centrosome function and activity in embryonic neurons.

Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

Summary: In this manuscript, Gonzalez et al. examine the potential function of centrosomes in the neurons and muscle cells of Drosophila embryos. By studying various mutant and RNAi lines in which centriole duplication has been disrupted, they conclude that the loss of centrioles disrupts axonal pathfinding and muscle integrity.

Major points: 1. Throughout the manuscript, the phenotypes presented are often quite subtle. For this reason, I would really recommend that these experiments are scored blind. Perhaps the authors did this, but I didn't see any mention of this.

All our phenotypic analyses are performed blind. We apologize for not having originally included this information in the Methods section; it has now been added. Embryos are stained using colorimetric methods (DAB) to label the nervous system, while balancer chromosomes are marked with a fluorescent antibody. This approach allows us to assess and quantify phenotypes using white light without knowing whether the embryos are homozygous mutants or heterozygous, which can only be detected by changing the channels to fluorescence.

1. The authors conclude that neurons have active centrioles that function as centrosomes (Figure 6), but the data here is confusing. The authors state that in these cells they observe acetylated MTs extending from the centrosomes and these colocalised with g-tubulin. But the authors don't show the overlap between centrosomes, g-tubulin and MTs, as they stain for these separately. This is problematic, as it was not clear from these images that the majority of the MTs really are extending from the centrosome: the centrosome may just associate or be close by to these MT cables (Figure 6A,B). Moreover, the authors show that only a fraction of the centrosomes in these cells associate with g-tubulin, so presumably in cells where the centrosomes lack g-tubulin they would not expect the centrosomes to be associated with the MTs-but they do not show that this is the case. Perhaps the authors can't test this, but an alternative would be to show that these MT arrays are absent in Sas-4 mutants. This would give more confidence that these MTs arise from the centrosomes.

We agree that the initial data based on acetylated microtubules and γ-tubulin colocalization were not sufficient to conclude that microtubules originate from the centrosome, as these markers can only suggest association. To address this, we have now included additional experiments that provide direct evidence of centrosome activity.

First, we performed live imaging of aCC neurons expressing EB1-GFP together with Asl-Tomato. Despite the technical challenges of imaging only two neurons per segment in live embryos under strict fluorescence and timing constraints, we were able to clearly observe EB1 comets emerging from the centrosome and moving toward the cell periphery. This demonstrates active microtubule nucleation from centrosomes rather than mere proximity to microtubule bundles.

Second, we carried out a microtubule depolymerization/polymerization assay, which provides unequivocal evidence that polymerization initiates at the centrosome. After depolymerization, microtubules regrew from the centrosome, confirming its role as an active microtubule-organizing center. These experiments go beyond colocalization and directly address the concern that centrosomes might simply be adjacent to microtubule cables.

Regarding the suggestion to use Sas-4 mutants, while we did not perform this experiment, the regrowth assay combined with EB1 imaging strongly supports that these microtubules originate from the centrosome. All new data are presented in Figure 6 and the corresponding text in the revised manuscript.

1. The authors show that muscle cell integrity is compromised by centriole-loss (Figure 2). This is very surprising as it is widely believed that centrosomes are non-functional in muscle cells, and the MTs are instead organised around the nuclear envelope. I'm not aware of the situation in Drosophila muscle cells, but the authors should ideally try to examine if the centrioles are functioning as centrosomes in these cells. At the very least they should discuss how they think centriole-loss is influencing the muscle integrity when it is widely believed they are inactive in these cells.

We do not claim that centrosomes are active in muscle cells at these developmental stages. The observed muscle defects could result from earlier processes such as cell division, migration, or muscle fusion. We agree that this is an intriguing observation; however, pursuing this question further would go beyond the scope of the current manuscript. As requested by the reviewer, we have now expanded the discussion to consider how centriole loss might impact muscle integrity.

Regardless of the strength of the supporting data, I think the authors should tone down their conclusions. The title and abstract led me to believe that centriole loss would cause significant problems in axonal pathfinding and muscle integrity. In all the mutant specimens examined (and certainly the low magnification views shown in Figure 1D'-F', Figure 1I'-K' and Figure 2D'-F') the mutants look very similar to the WT. Many readers may not get past the title and abstract, so the authors should make it clearer that these defects are very subtle.

We have changed the text to convey this idea.

Minor points: 1. In Figures 4 and 5, CP309 staining is relied on to identify centrioles, but there is quite a background of non-specific dots, making it hard to be certain what is a centriole and what isn't. For example, in Figure 5D' there are lots of dots within some of the cells - are any of these centrioles? How can the authors be certain which dot is a centriole in some of the cells shown in Figure 5C'? Is it possible to use a second marker and only count as centrioles dots that are recognised by both antibodies?

We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and agree that using a second marker improves confidence in centriole identification. In a new supplementary figure (Supplementary Fig. 3), we now show that Asl and Plp colocalize in neurons and provide a quantification of the frequency of this colocalization. This dual labelling confirms the identity of centrioles and addresses the concern about non-specific background.

We also apologize for any confusion regarding the presence of foci outside the marked cells. These images are whole-mount embryonic stainings, and the anti-Plp antibody labels all centrosomes in all cells of the embryo, which explains the additional foci observed.

In the abstract that authors state that traditionally centrosomes have been considered to be non-essential in terminally differentiated cells. I don't think this is correct. In the standard "textbook" view of a cell, the centrosome is normally positioned in the centre of the cell organising an extensive array of MTs that are thought play an important role in organising intracellular transport, the positioning and movement of organelles and the maintenance and establishment of cell polarity. I don't think it is only recent evidence that suggests they play vital roles in terminally differentiated cells.

We thank the reviewer for this correction and we have changed the text accordingly.

1. Line 162 the authors state that in the RNAi knockdown lines they observe several additional phenotypes, but then in the same sentence (Line 164) they say that these defects were also observed in the original mutant and mutant/Df lines.

We apologise for this confusion, we have rearranged the sentence for clearance.

The sentences in Line281-287 don't reference any of the Figures, so it seems the authors are just stating these results without presenting any data (e.g. "Significantly, we also found a correlation between axonal guidance phenotypes and the numbers of centrioles per embryo". If they've tested this correlation, they should show it.

We have rearranged the sentences for better understanding.

In Figure 7 I did not understand how the authors measured tortuosity (wiggliness) and could see no description in the methods. This is important as, again the defect seems quite subtle, but perhaps I am not understanding which bits of the axon are being measures. Is it just the small bit of the axons close to the asterixis that is being measured, or the whole FasII track?

We have now added another quantification and additional descriptions in the methods section.

Reviewer #2 (Significance (Required)):

The potential function of centrosomes in axonal outgrowth is quite controversial, so this study is potentially of considerable interest.

However, several aspects of the data presented here were confusing or not terribly convincing. In its present state, I don't think the main conclusions are strongly enough supported by the data.

We hope that reviewer 2, now considers that the manuscript is not confusing anymore and that it shows convincing evidence for centrosome function and activity in embryonic neurons.

Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

The manuscript of González et al. entitled "Centriole Loss in Embryonic Development Disrupts Axonal Pathfinding and Muscle Integrity" deals with the role of centrosomes in shaping axonal morphology. To this aim the AA analysed Drosophila Sas-4 mutants that are reported to develop until adult stage without centrioles. Remarkably, the AA observe that 50% of the homozygous mutant embryos fail to hatch as larvae. The present observations suggest that centrosome loss results in axonemal shaping defects and muscle developmental abnormalities. Finally, the AA show the presence of functional centrosomes in neurons. In my opinion, the manuscript is interesting because shows unexpected findings. However, to justify these new findings the AA are required to improve some experimental observations.

We thank the reviewer for his summary of our work and for considering it interesting. We have taken into account all the comments and believe that these have helped improve our manuscript.

Major: Abstract- It is unclear in which phenotypic condition the observations of centrosome loss or centrosome presence have been found. Please better explain. l.36. embryos, larvae, adult, from Sas4 or controls? If mutants, the observations are very interesting since Sas4 would be without centrioles. Indeed, Basto et al., show that chemosensory neurons do not develop an axoneme in the absence of centrioles, but extend dendrites toward the sensory bristle.

We have made clear which refer to wild-type and which are Centriole Loss (CL) conditions. CL conditions refer to mutant and downregulation conditions, whereas targeted downregulation refers to RNAi downregulation only in neurons.

I do not think appropriate the use of "centriole" in the main title since the centrioles would be localized by true centriolar antigens rather than by centrosomal antigens. This problem occurs throughout the text and some figures where the AA image centrioles by centrosomal material. In Gig. 5A only the AA properly look at Asl localization. The other pictures of presumptive centrioles or centriole quantification report CP309 dots. This localization does not unequivocally reveal centrioles, since CP309 is essentially required for centrosome-mediated Mt nucleation. There are differentiated Drosophila tissues in which centrioles are present, but inactivated, and unable to recruit pericentriolar material. Mt are nucleated by ncMTOCs that contain centrosomal material and gamma-tubulin. Thus, the centrosomal antigens do not colocalize with centrioles.

We have changed centrioles to centrosomes in the title and most sections in the manuscript. We have also included an extra control, showing that Asl and Plp colocalize and quantify the number of times we find this colocalization in neurons (Supl. Fig 3). Asl is a reliable and widely used marker for centrioles, as it localizes specifically to the centriole structure (Varmark H, Llamazares S, Rebollo E, Lange B, Reina J, Schwarz H, Gonzalez C. Asterless is a centriolar protein required for centrosome function and embryo development in Drosophila. Curr Biol. 2007 Oct 23;17(20):1735-45. doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2007.09.031. PMID: 17935995.)

Minor: l. 58. The early arrest is mainly due to a checkpoint control. In double mutant for Sas4 and P53 the embryos survive longer, even if their further development is asrrested.

We thank the reviewer for this comment, and we have changed the text accordingly.

1. Previous works, also quoted by the AA, reported that in mature neurons the centrosome are inactivated, whereas the present manuscript describes functional centrosomes in Drosophila motor and peripheral nervous system. This is an intriguing observations that needs a better explanation in Discussion section.

We thank the reviewer for this comment, and we have changed the discussion accordingly.

l.143-145. I understand that 50% of the Sas4 embryos that reach the adult stage have centrioles. Is it correct? But if it is so, how the AA explain the absence of centrioles in sensory neurons of adult flies as reported by Basto et al. ?

According to our results they have less centrioles than controls already at embryonic stages. In addition, as reported in Basto et al. they continue losing centrioles during larval stages and metamorphosis, which explains why centrioles are not detected at adult stages.

l.215. It is unclear for me why the AA analyse Sas6 flies, unless explain the mutant phenotype.

To strengthen our conclusions with Sas-4 and exclude the possibility that the observed phenotypes arise from a centrosome-independent function of Sas-4. For this reason, we have taken additional steps to confirm that the effects are specifically due to centrosome loss and we used Sas-6 mutants as one of these.

l.221. How the centrioles have been quantified? What antibody, the AA used.

We have quantified centrosomes using antibodies agains Plp (CP309) and Asl-YFP expression.

l.244. and Fig 4C,D. I see high background with CP309. As reported previously I think better to use antibodies against centriolar proteins, such as Sas6, Ana1, Asl, or Sas4 ( if centrioles are present in 50% of mutants as the AA claim, the antibody could be also useful). In addition, I can see some CP309 spots in Fig 4E,F. Are they centrioles?

Indeed, as we report, Sas-4 mutant embryos are not totally devoid of centrosomes. In addition, and we apologise for the confusion, but the reason why there are foci outside the marked cells in control embryos is because these are wholemount embryonic stainings and the anti-Plp antibody marks all centrosomes in all cells in the embryo, not just in the neurons.

l.270 and Fig. 5A and Fig.5 C-E. Why the AA localize Cp309 and not Asl (Fig. 5A) to detect centrioles?

In a new supplementary figure, we now show that Asl and Plp colocalize and quantify the number of times we find this colocalization in neurons (Supl. Fig 3). So, we can use CP309 in neurons to the same effect as Asl-

L295-296. I cannot see Mts, but only a diffuse staining. I am expecting to see distinct Mt bundles.

In figure 5 it is now easier to see the MT bundles in the new experiment in Fig. 5F-I , where we performed MT depolymerisation/repolymerisation: Nevertheless, we need to stress out that we are doing these analyses in wholemount embryonic stainings.

326-327. How the AA explain this different lethality, even if both the proteins are involved in centriole assembly?

We have now redone all the viability and mutant phenotype analysis using Sas-6 CRISPR mutant over the Deficiency, which is a better way to access the phenotype.

335-337. In my opinion the quoted publications are not relevant.

We believe that these references back up our hypothesis because:

• Metzger et al 2012 stress the importance of nuclear position in muscle development in Drosophila
• Loh et al 2023, relate centrosomes with nuclear migration in Drosophila
• Tillery et al 2018, is a review describing MTs in muscle development in Drosophila.

358-359. Does maternal contribution persist after gastrulation?

While bulk degradation occurs by midblastula transition, some stable maternal products persist beyond gastrulation. In our case, if centrioles are formed due to the maternal contribution, they will only be diluted by cell division, which explains why we can detect centrioles at late embryonic stages.

l.366. This is an intriguing point, but as previously observed I have some problem with centriole localization. References. Please uniform Journal abbreviations and control page numbers.

I hope we have clarified this problem with the new experiments showing MT repolarization from the centrosomes in neurons.

Reviewer #3 (Significance (Required)):

The manuscript is potentially interesting for peoples working of cell and molecular biology, and development. However, the paper needs an additional working to be suitable for publication.

We hope that reviewer 3, considers that the additional work and revision make this manuscript suitable for publication.

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Referee #3

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

The manuscript of González et al. entitled "Centriole Loss in Embryonic Development Disrupts Axonal Pathfinding and Muscle Integrity" deals with the role of centrosomes in shaping axonal morphology. To this aim the AA analysed Drosophila Sas-4 mutants that are reported to develop until adult stage without centrioles. Remarkably, the AA observe that 50% of the homozygous mutant embryos fail to hatch as larvae. The present observations suggest that centrosome loss results in axonemal shaping defects and muscle developmental abnormalities. Finally, the AA show the presence of functional centrosomes in neurons. In my opinion, the manuscript is interesting because shows unexpected findings. However, to justify these new findings the AA are required to improve some experimental observations.

Major:

Abstract- It is unclear in which phenotypic condition the observations of centrosome loss or centrosome presence have been found. Please better explain. l.36. embryos, larvae, adult, from Sas4 or controls? If mutants, the observations are very interesting since Sas4 would be without centrioles. Indeed, Basto et al., show that chemosensory neurons do not develop an axoneme in the absence of centrioles, but extend dendrites toward the sensory bristle.

I do not think appropriate the use of "centriole" in the main title since the centrioles would be localized by true centriolar antigens rather than by centrosomal antigens. This problem occurs throughout the text and some figures where the AA image centrioles by centrosomal material. In Gig. 5A only the AA properly look at Asl localization. The other pictures of presumptive centrioles or centriole quantification report CP309 dots. This localization does not unequivocally reveal centrioles, since CP309 is essentially required for centrosome-mediated Mt nucleation. There are differentiated Drosophila tissues in which centrioles are present, but inactivated, and unable to recruit pericentriolar material. Mt are nucleated by ncMTOCs that contain centrosomal material and gamma-tubulin. Thus, the centrosomal antigens do not colocalize with centrioles.

Minor:

l. 58. The early arrest is mainly due to a checkpoint control. In double mutant for Sas4 and P53 the embryos survive longer, even if their further development is asrrested.

l. 102. Previous works, also quoted by the AA, reported that in mature neurons the centrosome are inactivated, whereas the present manuscript describes functional centrosomes in Drosophila motor and peripheral nervous system. This is an intriguing observations that needs a better explanation in Discussion section.

l.143-145. I understand that 50% of the Sas4 embryos that reach the adult stage have centrioles. Is it correct? But if it is so, how the AA explain the absence of centrioles in sensory neurons of adult flies as reported by Basto et al. ?

l.215. It is unclear for me why the AA analyse Sas6 flies, unless explain the mutant phenotype.

l.221. How the centrioles have been quantified? What antibody, the AA used.

l.244. and Fig 4C,D. I see high background with CP309. As reported previously I think better to use antibodies against centriolar proteins, such as Sas6, Ana1, Asl, or Sas4 ( if centrioles are present in 50% of mutants as the AA claim, the antibody could be also useful). In addition, I can see some CP309 spots in Fig 4E,F. Are they centrioles?

l.270 and Fig. 5A and Fig.5 C-E. Why the AA localize Cp309 and not Asl (Fig. 5A) to detect centrioles?

L295-296. I cannot see Mts, but only a diffuse staining. I am expecting to see distinct Mt bundles.

L. 326-327. How the AA explain this different lethality, even if both the proteins are involved in centriole assembly?

l. 335-337. In my opinion the quoted publications are not relevant.

l. 358-359. Does maternal contribution persist after gastrulation?

l.366. This is an intriguing point, but as previously observed I have some problem with centriole localization.

References. Please uniform Journal abbreviations and control page numbers.

Significance

The manuscript is potentially interesting for peoples working of cell and molecular biology, and development. However, the paper needs an additional working to be suitable for publication.

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Referee #2

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

Summary: In this manuscript, Gonzalez et al. examine the potential function of centrosomes in the neurons and muscle cells of Drosophila embryos. By studying various mutant and RNAi lines in which centriole duplication has been disrupted, they conclude that the loss of centrioles disrupts axonal pathfinding and muscle integrity.

Major points:

1. Throughout the manuscript, the phenotypes presented are often quite subtle. For this reason, I would really recommend that these experiments are scored blind. Perhaps the authors did this, but I didn't see any mention of this.
2. The authors conclude that neurons have active centrioles that function as centrosomes (Figure 6), but the data here is confusing. The authors state that in these cells they observe acetylated MTs extending from the centrosomes and these colocalised with g-tubulin. But the authors don't show the overlap between centrosomes, g-tubulin and MTs, as they stain for these separately. This is problematic, as it was not clear from these images that the majority of the MTs really are extending from the centrosome: the centrosome may just associate or be close by to these MT cables (Figure 6A,B). Moreover, the authors show that only a fraction of the centrosomes in these cells associate with g-tubulin, so presumably in cells where the centrosomes lack g-tubulin they would not expect the centrosomes to be associated with the MTs-but they do not show that this is the case. Perhaps the authors can't test this, but an alternative would be to show that these MT arrays are absent in Sas-4 mutants. This would give more confidence that these MTs arise from the centrosomes.
3. The authors show that muscle cell integrity is compromised by centriole-loss (Figure 2). This is very surprising as it is widely believed that centrosomes are non-functional in muscle cells, and the MTs are instead organised around the nuclear envelope. I'm not aware of the situation in Drosophila muscle cells, but the authors should ideally try to examine if the centrioles are functioning as centrosomes in these cells. At the very least they should discuss how they think centriole-loss is influencing the muscle integrity when it is widely believed they are inactive in these cells.
4. Regardless of the strength of the supporting data, I think the authors should tone down their conclusions. The title and abstract led me to believe that centriole loss would cause significant problems in axonal pathfinding and muscle integrity. In all the mutant specimens examined (and certainly the low magnification views shown in Figure 1D'-F', Figure 1I'-K' and Figure 2D'-F') the mutants look very similar to the WT. Many readers may not get past the title and abstract, so the authors should make it clearer that these defects are very subtle.

Minor points:

1. In Figures 4 and 5, CP309 staining is relied on to identify centrioles, but there is quite a background of non-specific dots, making it hard to be certain what is a centriole and what isn't. For example, in Figure 5D' there are lots of dots within some of the cells - are any of these centrioles? How can the authors be certain which dot is a centriole in some of the cells shown in Figure 5C'? Is it possible to use a second marker and only count as centrioles dots that are recognised by both antibodies?
2. In the abstract that authors state that traditionally centrosomes have been considered to be non-essential in terminally differentiated cells. I don't think this is correct. In the standard "textbook" view of a cell, the centrosome is normally positioned in the centre of the cell organising an extensive array of MTs that are thought play an important role in organising intracellular transport, the positioning and movement of organelles and the maintenance and establishment of cell polarity. I don't think it is only recent evidence that suggests they play vital roles in terminally differentiated cells.
3. Line 162 the authors state that in the RNAi knockdown lines they observe several additional phenotypes, but then in the same sentence (Line 164) they say that these defects were also observed in the original mutant and mutant/Df lines.
4. The sentences in Line281-287 don't reference any of the Figures, so it seems the authors are just stating these results without presenting any data (e.g. "Significantly, we also found a correlation between axonal guidance phenotypes and the numbers of centrioles per embryo". If they've tested this correlation, they should show it.
5. In Figure 7 I did not understand how the authors measured tortuosity (wiggliness) and could see no description in the methods. This is important as, again the defect seems quite subtle, but perhaps I am not understanding which bits of the axon are being measures. Is it just the small bit of the axons close to the asterixis that is being measured, or the whole FasII track?

Significance

The potential function of centrosomes in axonal outgrowth is quite controversial, so this study is potentially of considerable interest.

However, several aspects of the data presented here were confusing or not terribly convincing. In its present state, I don't think the main conclusions are strongly enough supported by the data.

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Referee #1

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

In this paper, the authors address the important question of the role of centrosomes during neuronal development. They use Drosophila as an in vivo model. The field is somewhat unclear on the role and importance of centrosomes during neuronal development, although the current data would suggest they are dispensable for axon specification and growth. Early studies in cultured mammalian neurons showed that centrosomes are active and that their microtubules can be cut and transported into the neurites. But a study then showed that centrosomes in these cultured neurons are deactivated relatively early during neuronal development in vitro and that ablating centrosomes even when they are active had no obvious effect on axon specification and growth. Consistent with this, a study in Drosophila provided evidence that centrosomes were not active or necessary in different types of neurons. More recently, a study showed that centrosomal microtubules are dispensable for axon specification and growth in mice in vivo but are required for neuronal migration in the cerebral cortex. However, another study has linked the generation of acetylated microtubules at centrosomes with axon development. In this current study, the authors examine the effect of centrosome loss on various motor and sensory neurons and muscles mainly by examining mutants in essential centriole duplication genes. They associate axonal routing and morphology defects with centrosome loss and provide some evidence that centrosomes could still be active in the developing neurons. Overall, they conclude that centrosomes are active during at least early neuronal development and that this activity is important for proper axonal morphology and routing.

While I think this study addressing a very interesting and important question, I think as it stands the data is not sufficient to be conclusive on a role for centrosomes during neuronal development. My biggest concern is that most phenotypes have not yet been shown to be cell autonomous, as whole animal mutants have been analysed rather than analysing the effect of cell-specific depletion, and the evidence for active centrosomes needs to be strengthened. If the authors can provide stronger evidence for a role of centrosomes in axonal development then the paper will certainly be of interest to a broad readership.

Major comments

1. The sas-6 transallelic combination shows only 17% embryonic lethality compared to 50% embryonic lethality with sas-4 mutants. Given that both mutants should result in the same degree of centrosome loss (this should be quantified in sas-6 mutants) it would suggest that either sas-4 has other roles away from centrosomes or that the sas-4 mutant chromosome used in the experiment has other mutations that affect viability. The effect of picking up "second-site lethal" mutations on mutant chromosomes is common and so I would not be surprised if this is the reason for the difference in phenotypes. This can be addressed either by "cleaning up" the sas-4 mutant chromosome by backcrossing to wild-type lines, allowing recombination to occur and replace the potential second site mutations, or by using transallelic combinations of sas-4, as they did for sas-6. The "easier" option may just be to analyse all the phenotypes with the sas-6 transallelic combination.
2. Using "whole animal" mutants for assessing neuronal morphology is risky due to non-cell-autonomous effects. The authors have carried out some phenotypic analysis of neurons depleted of Sas-4 by cell-specific RNAi, but I feel they need to do this for all of their analysis. This includes embryonic lethality measures, quantification of centrosome numbers, and all axonal phenotypes in Sas-4 RNAi neurons. It would also be prudent to use 2 distinct RNAi lines to help ensure any phenotypes are not off-target effects (and this may help clarify why the authors see some additional phenotypes with RNAi). Indeed, there are relatively weak phenotypes in muscles when using RNAi compared to the mutants and these potential non-cell-autonomous effects could then have a knock-on effect on neuronal morphology. If the authors were concerned that RNAi is not very efficient (explaining any potential weaker phenotypes than in mutants) the authors could examine the effectiveness of RNAi lines by analysing protein depletion by western blotting or mRNA depletion by rt-qPCR (although this has to be done in a different cell type due to the difficulty in obtaining a neuronal extract).
3. When analysing centriole presence or absence it is a good idea to stain with two different centriole markers e.g. Asl and Plp. This helps rule out unspecific staining. It is clear from the images that similar sized foci can be observed outside of the cells (see Figure 5A for example), so clearly some of the foci that appear to be within the cells may also be unspecific staining.
4. The evidence for active centrosomes is not that convincing. Acetylated tubulin is associated with stable MTs, which are not normally organised by "active" centrosomes that nucleate dynamic microtubules. Moreover, it is plausible that centriole foci happen to overlap with the acetylated tubulin staining by chance. This would explain why not all centrosomes colocalise with acetylated tubulin signal. The authors could better test centrosome activity by performing live imaging with EB1-GFP. If centrosomes are active, it is very easy to observe the many comets produced by the centrosomes.
5. If the authors believe that centrosomes have a role in axon pathfinding in sensory neurons, they should show that these centrosomes are active, at least during early stages (again using EB1-GFP imaging).
6. The authors mention in the discussion that "increased JNK activity, can result in axonal wiggliness (Karkali et al, 2023)". I therefore wonder whether centrosome loss may induce JNK activation (the stress response), as this would then indicate an indirect effect of centrosome loss on axonal structure rather than a direct influence of centrosome-generated microtubules. The authors could assess whether the DNK-JNK pathway is activated in neurons lacking centrosomes by expression UAS-Puc-GFP and quantifying the nuclear signal.
7. In Figure 5, the authors claim that they find "a correlation between axonal guidance phenotypes and the numbers of centrioles per embryo". I don't think this is a strong correlation. The difference in centriole number between embryos with no defects and those with defects is very small. In contrast, the difference between centriole numbers in control (no defects) and mutant (no defects) is very large. So, there does not appear to be a strong correlation between centrosome number and phenotype.

Minor comments

1. I don't understand Figure 3C - why do the % of surviving homozygotes and heterozygotes add up to 100%? Should the grey boxes not relate to dead and the white to surviving?
2. "In mouse fibroblasts, myoblasts and endothelial cells, centrosome orientation is important for nuclear positioning and cell migration(Chang et al, 2015; Gomes et al, 2005; Kushner et al, 2014)." Do you mean "centrosome position"?
3. In the introduction, the authors mention Meka et al. when saying the centrosomal microtubules are important for axonal development, but they should also discuss the counter argument from Vinopal et al., 2023 (Neuron) that showed how centrosomes were required for neuronal migration but not axon growth, which was instead mediated by Golgi-derived microtubules.
4. Lines 228-230 - repeated sentence
5. Additionally, we did not detect centrioles in the quadrant opposite the axon exit point (Fig. 2B n=75) - this data is not in Fig 2B
6. "This significant decrease in the humber of centrioles further supports the critical role of Sas-4 in pioneer neurons of the ventral nerve cord (VNC) during Drosophila embryogenesis". It rather highlights that Sas-4 is required for centriole formation in these neurons. Also, humber = number.
7. Result title: Non-ciliated sensory neurons have centrioles. This is kind of obvious. A better title may be "axon phenotypes correlate with centriole numbers in sensory neurons" but unfortunately i don't think there is good evidence for this (See major point above).

Significance

As mentioned above, the advance will be important if more evidence is provided. In this case, the paper will be interesting to a broad readership. But currently the paper is limited by the lack of evidence for centrosome function and activity in the neurons.

Patients finding data from EHRs that hold their data requires either NPI, CLIA, or CCN. They are not required to publish "individual" NPIs. But they have to have ONPI or something else that we can link to.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public Reviews):

Summary:

Argunşah et al. describe and investigate the mechanisms underlying the differential response dynamics of barrel vs septa domains of the whisker-related primary somatosensory cortex (S1). Upon repeated stimulation, the authors report that the response ratio between multi- and single-whisker stimulation increases in layer (L) 4 neurons of the septal domain, while remaining constant in barrel L4 neurons. This difference is attributed to the short-term plasticity properties of interneurons, particularly somatostatin-expressing (SST+) neurons. This claim is supported by the increased density of SST+ neurons found in L4 of the septa compared to barrels, along with a stronger response of (L2/3) SST+ neurons to repeated multi- vs single-whisker stimulation. The role of the synaptic protein Elfn1 is then examined. Elfn1 KO mice exhibited little to no functional domain separation between barrel and septa, with no significant difference in single- versus multi-whisker response ratios across barrel and septal domains. Consistently, a decoder trained on WT data fails to generalize to Elfn1 KO responses. Finally, the authors report a relative enrichment of S2- and M1-projecting cell densities in L4 of the septal domain compared to the barrel domain.

Strengths:

This paper describes and aims to study a circuit underlying differential response between barrel columns and septal domains of the primary somatosensory cortex. This work supports the view that barrel and septal domains contribute differently to processing single versus multi-whisker inputs, suggesting that the barrel cortex multiplexes sensory information coming from the whiskers in different domains.

We thank the reviewer for the very neat summary of our findings that barrel cortex multiplexes converging information in separate domains.

Weaknesses:

While the observed divergence in responses to repeated SWS vs MWS between the barrel and septal domains is intriguing, the presented evidence falls short of demonstrating that short-term plasticity in SST+ neurons critically underpins this difference. The absence of a mechanistic explanation for this observation limits the work’s significance. The measurement of SST neurons’ response is not specific to a particular domain, and the Elfn1 manipulation does not seem to be specific to either stimulus type or a particular domain.

We appreciate the reviewer’s perspective. Although further research is needed to understand the circuit mechanisms underlying the observed phenomenon, we believe our data suggest that altering the short-term dynamics of excitatory inputs onto SST neurons reduces the divergent spiking dynamics in barrels versus septa during repetitive single- and multi-whisker stimulation. Future work could examine how SST neurons, whose somata reside in barrels and septa, respond to different whisker stimuli and the circuits in which they are embedded. At this time, however, the authors believe there is no alternative way to test how the short-term dynamics of excitatory inputs onto SST neurons, as a whole, contribute to the temporal aspects of barrel versus septa spiking.

The study's reach is further constrained by the fact that results were obtained in anesthetized animals, which may not generalize to awake states.

We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the generalizability of our findings from anesthetized animals to awake states. Anesthesia was employed to ensure precise individual whisker stimulation (and multi-whisker in the same animal), which is challenging in awake rodents due to active whisking. While anesthesia may alter higher-order processing, core mechanisms, such as short and long term plasticity in the barrel cortex, are preserved under anesthesia (Martin-Cortecero et al., 2014; Mégevand et al., 2009).

The statistical analysis appears inappropriate, with the use of repeated independent tests, dramatically boosting the false positive error rate.

Thank you for your feedback on our analysis using independent rank-based tests for each time point in wild-type (WT) animals. To address concerns regarding multiple comparisons and temporal dependencies (for Figure 1F and 4D for now but we will add more in our revision), we performed a repeated measures ANOVA for WT animals (13 Barrel, 8 Septa, 20 time points), which revealed a significant main effect of Condition (F(1,19) = 16.33, p < 0.001) and a significant Condition-Time interaction (F(19,361) = 2.37, p = 0.001). Post-hoc tests confirmed significant differences between Barrel and Septa at multiple time points (e.g., p < 0.0025 at times 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 16, 19 after Bonferroni posthoc correction), supporting a differential multi-whisker vs. single-whisker ratio response in WT animals. In contrast, a repeated measures ANOVA for knock-out (KO) animals (11 Barrel, 7 Septa, 20 time points) showed no significant main effect of Condition (F(1,14) = 0.17, p = 0.684) or Condition-Time interaction (F(19,266) = 0.73, p = 0.791), indicating that the BarrelSepta difference observed in WT animals is absent in KO animals.

Furthermore, the manuscript suffers from imprecision; its conclusions are occasionally vague or overstated. The authors suggest a role for SST+ neurons in the observed divergence in SWS/MWS responses between barrel and septal domains. However, this remains speculative, and some findings appear inconsistent. For instance, the increased response of SST+ neurons to MWS versus SWS is not confined to a specific domain. Why, then, would preferential recruitment of SST+ neurons lead to divergent dynamics between barrel and septal regions? The higher density of SST+ neurons in septal versus barrel L4 is not a sufficient explanation, particularly since the SWS/MWS response divergence is also observed in layers 2/3, where no difference in SST+ neuron density is found.

Moreover, SST+ neuron-mediated inhibition is not necessarily restricted to the layer in which the cell body resides. It remains unclear through which differential microcircuits (barrel vs septum) the enhanced recruitment of SST+ neurons could account for the divergent responses to repeated SWS versus MWS stimulation.

We fully appreciate the reviewer’s comment. We currently do not provide any evidence on the contribution of SST neurons in the barrels versus septa in layer 4 on the response divergence of spiking observed in SWS versus MWS. We only show that these neurons differentially distribute in the two domains in this layer. It is certainly known that there is molecular and circuit-based diversity of SST-positive neurons in different layers of the cortex, so it is plausible that this includes cells located in the two domains of vS1, something which has not been examined so far. Our data on their distribution are one piece of information that SST neurons may have a differential role in inhibiting barrel stellate cells versus septa ones. Morphological reconstructions of SST neurons in L4 of the somatosensory barrel cortex has shown that their dendrites and axons project locally and may confine to individual domains, even though not specifically examined (Fig. 3 of Scala F et al., 2019). The same study also showed that L4 SST cells receive excitatory input from local stellate cells) and is known that they are also directly excited by thalamocortical fibers (Beierlein et al., 2003; Tan et al., 2008), both of which facilitate.

As shown in our supplementary figure, the divergence is also observed in L2/3 where, as the reviewer also points out, where we do not have a differential distribution of SST cells, at least based on a columnar analysis extending from L4. There are multiple scenarios that could explain this “discrepancy” that one would need to examine further in future studies. One straightforward one is that the divergence in spiking in L2/3 domains may be inherited from L4 domains, where L4 SST act on. Another is that even though L2/3 SST neurons are not biased in their distribution their input-output function is, something which one would need to examine by detailed in vitro electrophysiological and perhaps optogenetic approaches in S1. Despite the distinctive differences that have been found between the L4 circuitry in S1 and V1 (Scala F et al., 2019), recent observations indicate that small but regular patches of V1 marked by the absence of muscarinic receptor 2 (M2) have high temporal acuity (Ji et al., 2015), and selectively receive input from SST interneurons (Meier et al., 2025). Regions lacking M2 have distinct input and output connectivity patterns from those that express M2 (Meier et al., 2021; Burkhalter et al., 2023). These findings, together with ours, suggest that SST cells preferentially innervate and regulate specific domains columns- in sensory cortices.

Regardless of the mechanism, the Elfn1 knock-out mouse line almost exclusively affects the incoming excitability onto SST neurons (see also reply to comment below), hence what can be supported by our data is that changing the incoming short-term synaptic plasticity onto these neurons brings the spiking dynamics between barrels and septa closer together.

The Elfn1 KO mouse model seems too unspecific to suggest the role of the short-term plasticity in SST+ neurons in the differential response to repeated SWS vs MWS stimulation across domains. Why would Elfn1-dependent short-term plasticity in SST+ neurons be specific to a pathway, or a stimulation type (SWS vs MWS)? Moreover, the authors report that Elfn1 knockout alters synapses onto VIP+ as well as SST+ neurons (Stachniak et al., 2021; previous version of this paper)-so why attribute the phenotype solely to SST+ circuitry? In fact, the functional distinctions between barrel and septal domains appear largely abolished in the Elfn1 KO.

Previous work by others and us has shown that globally removing Elfn1 selectively removes a synaptic process from the brain without altering brain anatomy or structure. This allows us to study how the temporal dynamics of inhibition shape activity, as opposed to inhibition from particular cell types. We will nevertheless update the text to discuss more global implications for SST interneuron dynamics and include a reference to VIP interneurons that contain Elfn1.

When comparing SWS to MWS, we find that MWS replaces the neighboring excitation which would normally be preferentially removed by short-term plasticity in SST interneurons, thus providing a stable control comparison across animals and genotypes. On average, VIP interneurons failed to show modulation by MWS. We were unable to measure a substantial contribution of VIP cells to this process and also note that the Elfn1 expressing multipolar neurons comprise only ~5% of VIP neurons (Connor and Peters, 1984; Stachniak et al., 2021), a fraction that may be lost when averaging from 138 VIP cells. Moreover, the effect of Elfn1 loss on VIP neurons is quite different and marginal compared to that of SST cells, suggesting that the primary impact of Elfn1 knockout is mediated through SST+ interneuron circuitry. Therefore, even if we cannot rule out that these 5% of VIP neurons contribute to barrel domain segregation, we are of the opinion that their influence would be very limited if any.

Reviewer #2 (Public Reviews):

Summary:

Argunsah and colleagues demonstrate that SST-expressing interneurons are concentrated in the mouse septa and differentially respond to repetitive multi-whisker inputs. Identifying how a specific neuronal phenotype impacts responses is an advance.

Strengths:

(1)  Careful physiological and imaging studies.

(2)  Novel result showing the role of SST+ neurons in shaping responses.

(3)  Good use of a knockout animal to further the main hypothesis.

(4)  Clear analytical techniques.

We thank the reviewer for their appreciation of the study.

Weaknesses:

No major weaknesses were identified by this reviewer. Overall, I appreciated the paper but feel it overlooked a few issues and had some recommendations on how additional clarifications could strengthen the paper. These include:

(1) Significant work from Jerry Chen on how S1 neurons that project to M1 versus S2 respond in a variety of behavioral tasks should be included (e.g. PMID: 26098757). Similarly, work from Barry Connor’s lab on intracortical versus thalamocortical inputs to SST neurons, as well as excitatory inputs onto these neurons (e.g. PMID: 12815025) should be included.

We thank the reviewer for these valuable resources that we overlooked. We will include Chen et al. (2015), Cruikshank et al. (2007) and Gibson et al. (1999) to contextualize S1 projections and SST+ inputs, strengthening the study’s foundation as well as Beierlein et al. (2003) which nicely show both local and thalamocortical facilitation of excitatory inputs onto L4 SST neurons, in contrast to PV cells. The paper also shows the gradual recruitment of SST neurons by thalamocortical inputs to provide feed-forward inhibition onto stellate cells (regular spiking) of the barrel cortex L4 in rat.

(2) Using Layer 2/3 as a proxy to what is happening in layer 4 (~line 234). Given that layer 2/3 cells integrate information from multiple barrels, as well as receiving direct VPm thalamocortical input, and given the time window that is being looked at can receive input from other cortical locations, it is not clear that layer 2/3 is a proxy for what is happening in layer 4.

We agree with the reviewer that what we observe in L2/3 is not necessarily what is taking place in L4 SST-positive cells. The data on L2/3 was included to show that these cells, as a population, can show divergent responses when it comes to SWS vs MWS, which is not seen in L2/3 VIP neurons. Regardless of the mechanisms underlying it, our overall data support that SST-positive neurons can change their activation based on the type of whisker stimulus and when the excitatory input dynamics onto these neurons change due to the removal of Elfn1 the recruitment of barrels vs septa spiking changes at the temporal domain. Having said that, the data shown in Supplementary Figure 3 on the response properties of L2/3 neurons above the septa vs above the barrels (one would say in the respective columns) do show the same divergence as in L4. This suggests that a circuit motif may exist that is common to both layers, involving SST neurons that sit in L4, L5 or even L2/3. This implies that despite the differences in the distribution of SST neurons in septa vs barrels of L4 there is an unidentified input-output spatial connectivity motif that engages in both L2/3 and L4. Please also see our response to a similar point raised by reviewer 1.

(3) Line 267, when discussing distinct temporal response, it is not well defined what this is referring to. Are the neurons no longer showing peaks to whisker stimulation, or are the responses lasting a longer time? It is unclear why PV+ interneurons which may not be impacted by the Elfn1 KO and receive strong thalamocortical inputs, are not constraining activity.

We thank the reviewer for their comment and will clarify the statement.

This convergence of response profiles was further clear in stimulus-aligned stacked images, where the emergent differences between barrels and septa under SWS were largely abolished in the KO (Figure 4B). A distinction between directly stimulated barrels and neighboring barrels persisted in the KO. In addition, the initial response continued to differ between barrel and septa and also septa and neighbor (Figure 4B). This initial stimulus selectivity potentially represents distinct feedforward thalamocortical activity, which includes PV+ interneuron recruitment that is not directly impacted by the Elfn1 KO (Sun et al., 2006; Tan et al., 2008). PV+ cells are strongly excited by thalamocortical inputs, but these exhibit short-term depression, as does their output, contrasting with the sustained facilitation observed in SST+ neurons. These findings suggest that in WT animals, activity spillover from principal barrels is normally constrained by the progressive engagement of SST+ interneurons in septal regions, driven by Elfn1-dependent facilitation at their excitatory synapses. In the absence of Elfn1, this local inhibitory mechanism is disrupted, leading to longer responses in barrels, delayed but stronger responses in septa, and persistently stronger responses in unstimulated neighbors, resulting in a loss of distinction between the responses of barrel and septa domains that normally diverge over time (see Author response image 1 below).

Author response image 1.

(A) Barrel responses are longer following whisker stimulation in KO. (B) Septal responses are slightly delayed but stronger in KO. (C) Unstimulated neighbors show longer persistent responses in KO.

(4) Line 585 “the earliest CSD sink was identified as layer 4…” were post-hoc measurements made to determine where the different shank leads were based on the post-hoc histology?

Post hoc histology was performed on plane-aligned brain sections which would allow us to detect barrels and septa, so as to confirm the insertion domains of each recorded shank. Layer specificity of each electrode therefore could therefore not be confirmed by histology as we did not have coronal sections in which to measure electrode depth.

(5) For the retrograde tracing studies, how were the M1 and S2 injections targeted (stereotaxically or physiologically)? How was it determined that the injections were in the whisker region (or not)?

During the retrograde virus injection, the location of M1 and S2 injections was determined by stereotaxic coordinates (Yamashita et al., 2018). After acquiring the light-sheet images, we were able to post hoc examine the injection site in 3D and confirm that the injections were successful in targeting the regions intended. Although it would have been informative to do so, we did not functionally determine the whisker-related M1 and whisker-related S2 region in this experiment.

(6) Were there any baseline differences in spontaneous activity in the septa versus barrel regions, and did this change in the KO animals?

Thank you for this interesting question. Our previous study found that there was a reduction in baseline activity in L4 barrel cortex of KO animals at postnatal day (P)12, but no differences were found at P21 (Stachniak et al., 2023).

Reviewer #3 (Public Reviews):

Summary:

This study investigates the functional differences between barrel and septal columns in the mouse somatosensory cortex, focusing on how local inhibitory dynamics, particularly involving Elfn1-expressing SST⁺ interneurons, may mediate temporal integration of multiwhisker (MW) stimuli in septa. Using a combination of in vivo multi-unit recordings, calcium imaging, and anatomical tracing, the authors propose that septa integrate MW input in an Elfn1-dependent manner, enabling functional segregation from barrel columns.

Strengths:

The core hypothesis is interesting and potentially impactful. While barrels have been extensively characterized, septa remain less understood, especially in mice, and this study's focus on septal integration of MW stimuli offers valuable insights into this underexplored area. If septa indeed act as selective integrators of distributed sensory input, this would add a novel computational role to cortical microcircuits beyond what is currently attributed to barrels alone. The narrative of this paper is intellectually stimulating.

We thank the reviewer for finding the study intellectually stimulating.

Weaknesses:

The methods used in the current study lack the spatial and cellular resolution needed to conclusively support the central claims. The main physiological findings are based on unsorted multi-unit activity (MUA) recorded via low-channel-count silicon probes. MUA inherently pools signals from multiple neurons across different distances and cell types, making it difficult to assign activity to specific columns (barrel vs. septa) or neuron classes (e.g., SST⁺ vs. excitatory).

The recording radius (~50-100 µm or more) and the narrow width of septa (~50-100 µm or less) make it likely that MUA from "septal" electrodes includes spikes from adjacent barrel neurons.

The authors do not provide spike sorting, unit isolation, or anatomical validation that would strengthen spatial attribution. Calcium imaging is restricted to SST⁺ and VIP⁺ interneurons in superficial layers (L2/3), while the main MUA recordings are from layer 4, creating a mismatch in laminar relevance.

We thank the reviewer for pointing out the possibility of contamination in septal electrodes. Importantly, it may not have been highlighted, although reported in the methods, but we used an extremely high threshold (7.5 std, in methods, line 583) for spike detection in order to overcome the issue raised here, which restricts such spatial contaminations. Since the spike amplitude decays rapidly with distance, at high thresholds, only nearby neurons contribute to our analysis, potentially one or two. We believe that this approach provides a very close approximation of single unit activity (SUA) in our reported data. We will include a sentence earlier in the manuscript to make this explicit and prevent further confusion.

Regarding the point on calcium imaging being performed on L2/3 SST and VIP cells instead of L4. Both reviewer 1 and 2 brought up the same issue and we responded as follows. As shown in our supplementary figure, the divergence is also observed in L2/3 where we do not have a differential distribution of SST cells, at least based on a columnar analysis extending from L4. There are multiple scenarios that could explain this “discrepancy” that one would need to examine further in future studies. One straightforward one is that the divergence in spiking in L2/3 domains may be inherited from L4 domains, where L4 SST act on. Another is that even though L2/3 SST neurons are not biased in their distribution their input-output function is, something which one would need to examine by detailed in vitro electrophysiological and perhaps optogenetic approaches in S1. Despite the distinctive differences that have been found between the L4 circuitry in S1 and V1 (Scala F et al., 2019), recent observations indicate that small but regular patches of V1 marked by the absence of muscarinic receptor 2 (M2) have high temporal acuity (Ji et al., 2015), and selectively receive input from SST interneurons (Meier et al., 2025). Regions lacking M2 have distinct input and output connectivity patterns from those that express M2 (Meier et al., 2021; Burkhalter et al., 2023). These findings, together with ours, suggest that SST cells preferentially innervate and regulate specific domains -columns- in sensory cortices.

Furthermore, while the role of Elfn1 in mediating short-term facilitation is supported by prior studies, no new evidence is presented in this paper to confirm that this synaptic mechanism is indeed disrupted in the knockout mice used here.

We thank Reviewer #3 for noting the absence of new evidence confirming Elfn1’s disruption of short-term facilitation in our knockout mice. We acknowledge that our study relies on previously strong published data demonstrating that Elfn1 mediates short-term synaptic facilitation of excitatory inputs onto SST+ interneurons (Sylwestrak and Ghosh, 2012; Tomioka et al., 2014; Stachniak et al., 2019, 2023). These studies consistently show that Elfn1 knockout abolishes facilitation in SST+ synapses, leading to altered temporal dynamics, which we hypothesize underlies the observed loss of barrel-septa response divergence in our Elfn1 KO mice (Figure 4). Nevertheless, to address the point raised, we will clarify in the revised manuscript (around lines 245-247 and 271-272) that our conclusions are based on these established findings, stating: “Building on prior evidence that Elfn1 knockout disrupts short-term facilitation in SST+ interneurons (Sylwestrak and Ghosh, 2012; Tomioka et al., 2014; Stachniak et al., 2019, 2023), we attribute the abolished barrel-septa divergence in Elfn1 KO mice to altered SST+ synaptic dynamics, though direct synaptic measurements were not performed here.”

Additionally, since Elfn1 is constitutively knocked out from development, the possibility of altered circuit formation-including changes in barrel structure and interneuron distribution, cannot be excluded and is not addressed.

We thank Reviewer #3 for raising the valid concern that constitutive Elfn1 knockout could potentially alter circuit formation, including barrel structure and interneuron distribution. To address this, we will clarify in the revised manuscript (around line ~271 and in the Discussion) that in our previous studies that included both whole-cell patch-clamp in acute brain slices ranging from postnatal day 11 to 22 (P11 - P21) and in vivo recordings from barrel cortex at P12 and P21, we saw no gross abnormalities in barrel structure, with Layer 4 barrels maintaining their characteristic size and organization, consistent with wildtype (WT) mice (Stachniak et al., 2019, 2023). While we cannot fully exclude subtle developmental changes, prior studies indicate that Elfn1 primarily modulates synaptic function rather than cortical cytoarchitecture (Tomioka et al., 2014). Elfn1 KO mice show no gross morphological or connectivity differences and the pattern and abundance of Elfn1 expressing cells (assessed by LacZ knock in) appears normal (Dolan and Mitchell, 2013).

We will add the following to the Discussion: “Although Elfn1 is constitutively knocked out, we find here and in previous studies that barrel structure is preserved (Stachniak et al., 2019, 2023). Further, the distribution of Elfn1 expressing interneurons is not different in KO mice, suggesting minimal developmental disruption (Dolan and Mitchell, 2013).

Nonetheless, we acknowledge that subtle circuit changes cannot be ruled out without the usage of time-depended conditional knockout of the gene.”

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

(1) My biggest concern is regarding statistics. Did the authors repeatedly apply independent tests (Mann-Whitney) without any correction for multiple comparisons (Figures 1 and 4)? In that case, the chances of a spurious "significant" result rise dramatically. 

In response to the reviewer’s comment, we now present new statistical results by utilizing ANOVA and blended these results in the manuscript between lines 172 and 192 for WT data and 282 and 298 for Elfn1 KO data. This new statistical approach shows the same differences as we had previously reported, hence consolidating the statements made. 

(2) The findings only hint at a mechanism involving SST+ neurons for how SWS and MWS are processed differently in the barrel vs septal domains. As a direct test of SST+ neuron involvement in the divergence of barrel and septal responses, the authors might consider SST-specific manipulations - for example, inhibitory chemo- or optogenetics during SWS and MWS stimulation.

We thank the reviewer for this comment and agree that a direct manipulation of SST+ neurons via inhibitory chemo- or opto-genetics could provide further supporting evidence for the main claims in our study. We have opted out from performing these experiments for this manuscript as we feel they can be part of a future study.  At the same time, it is conceivable that such manipulations and depending on how they are performed may lead to larger and non-specific effects on cortical activity, since SST neurons will likely be completely shut down. So even though we certainly appreciate and value the strengths of such approaches, our experiments have addressed a more nuanced hypothesis, namely that the synaptic dynamics onto SST+ neurons matter for response divergence of septa versus barrels, which could not have been easily and concretely addressed by manipulating SST+ cell firing activity.  

(3) In general, it is hard to comprehend what microcircuit could lead to the observed divergence in the MWS/SWS ratio in the barrel vs septal domain. There preferential recruitment of SST+ neurons during MWS is not specific to a particular domain, and the higher density of SST+ neurons specifically in L4 septa cannot per se explain the diverging MWS/SWS ratio in L4 septal neurons since similar ratio divergence is observed across domains in L2/3 neurons without increase SST+ neuron density in L2/3. This view would also assume that SST+ inhibition remains contained to its own layer and domain. Is this the case? Is it that different microcircuits between barrels and septa differently shape the response to repeated MWS? This is partially discussed in the paper; can the authors develop on that? What would the proposed mechanism be? Can the short-term plasticity of the thalamic inputs (VPM vs POm) be part of the picture?

We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We propose that the divergence in MWS/SWS ratios across barrel and septal domains arises from dynamic microcircuit interactions rather than static anatomical features such as SST+ density, which we describe and can provide a hint. In L2/3, where SST+ density is uniform, divergence persists, suggesting that trans-laminar and trans-domain interactions are key. Barrel domains, primarily receiving VPM inputs, exhibit short-term depression onto excitatory cells and engage PV+ and SST+ neurons to stabilize the MWS/SWS ratio, with Elfn1-dependent facilitation of SST+ neurons gradually increasing inhibition during repetitive SWS. Septal domains, in contrast, are targeted by facilitating POm inputs, combined with higher L4 SST+ density and Elfn1-mediated facilitation, producing progressive inhibitory buildup that amplifies the MWS/SWS ratio. SST+ projections in septa may extend trans-laminarly and laterally, influencing L2/3 and neighboring barrels, thereby explaining L2/3 divergence despite uniform SST+ density in L2/3. In this regards, direct laminar-dependent manipulations will be required to confirm whether L2/3 divergence is inherited from L4 dynamics. In Elfn1 KO mice, the loss of facilitation in SST+ neurons likely flattens these dynamics, disrupting functional segregation. Future experiments using VPM/POm-specific optogenetic activation and SST+ silencing will be critical to directly test this model.

We expanded the discussion accordingly.

(4) Can the decoder generalize between SWS and MWS? In this condition, if the decoder accuracy is higher for barrels than septa, it would support the idea that septa are processing the two stimuli differently. 

Our results show that septal decoding accuracy is generally higher than barrel accuracy when generalizing from multi-whisker stimulation (MWS) to single-whisker stimulation (SWS), indicating distinct information processing in septa compared to barrels.

In wild-type (WT) mice, septal accuracy exceeds barrel accuracy across all time windows (150ms, 51-95ms, 1-95ms), with the largest difference in the 51-95ms window (0.9944 vs. 0.9214 at pulse 20, 10Hz stimulation). This septal advantage grows with successive pulses, reflecting robust, separable neural responses, likely driven by the posterior medial nucleus (POm)’s strong MWS integration contrasting with minimal SWS activation. Barrel responses, driven by consistent ventral posteromedial nucleus (VPM) input for both stimuli, are less distinguishable, leading to lower accuracy.

In Elfn1 knockout (KO) mice, which disrupt excitatory drive to somatostatin-positive (SST+) interneurons, barrel accuracy is higher initially in the 1-50ms window (0.8045 vs. 0.7500 at pulse 1), suggesting reduced early septal distinctiveness. However, septal accuracy surpasses barrels in later pulses and time windows (e.g., 0.9714 vs. 0.9227 in 51-95ms at pulse 20), indicating restored septal processing. This supports the role of SST+ interneurons in shaping distinct MWS responses in septa, particularly in late-phase responses (51-95ms), where inhibitory modulation is prominent, as confirmed by calcium imaging showing stronger SST+ activation during MWS.

These findings demonstrate that septa process SWS and MWS differently, with higher decoding accuracy reflecting structured, POm- and SST+-driven response patterns. In Elfn1 KO mice, early deficits in septal processing highlight the importance of SST+ interneurons, with later recovery suggesting compensatory mechanisms. 

We have added Supplementary Figure 4 and included this interpretation between lines 338353. 

We thank the reviewer for suggesting this analysis.

(5) It is not clear to me how the authors achieve SWS. How is it that the pipette tip "placed in contact with the principal whisker" does not detach from the principal whisker or stimulate other whiskers? Please clarify the methods. 

Targeting the specific principal whisker is performed under the stereoscope.  

Specifically, we have added this statement in line 628:

“We trimmed the whiskers where necessary, to avoid them touching each other and to avoid stimulating other whiskers. By putting the pipette tip very close (almost touching) to the principal whisker, the movement of the tip (limited to 1mm) would reliably move the targeted whisker. The specificity of the stimulation of the selected principal whisker was observed under the stereoscope.”

(6) The method for calculating decoder accuracy is not clearly described-how can accuracy exceed 1? The authors should clarify this metric and provide measures of variability (e.g., confidence intervals or standard deviations across runs) to assess the significance of their comparisons. Additionally, using a consistent scale across all plots would improve interoperability. 

We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We have now changed the way accuracies are calculated and adopted a common scale among different plots (see updated Figure 5). We have also changed the methods section accordingly.

(7) Figure 1: The sample size is not specified. It looks like the numbers match the description in the methods, but the sample size should be clearly stated here. 

These are the numbers the reviewer is inquiring about. 

WT: (WT) animals: a 280 × 95 × 20 matrix for the stimulated barrel (14 Barrels, 95ms, 20 pulses), a 180 × 95 × 20 matrix for the septa (9 Septa, 95ms, 20 pulses), and a 360 × 95 × 20 matrix for the neighboring barrel (18 Neighboring barrels, 95ms, 20 pulses). N=4 mice.

KO: 11-barrel columns, 7 septal columns, 11 unstimulated neighbors from N=4 mice.

Panels D-F are missing axes and axis labels (firing rate, p-value). Panel D is mislabeled (left, middle, and right). I can't seem to find the yellow line. 

Thank you for this observation. We made changes in the figures to make them easier to navigate based on the collective feedback from the reviewers.

Why is changing the way to compare the differences in the responses to repeated stimulation between SWS and MWS? 

To assess temporal accumulation of information, we compared responses to repeated single-whisker stimulation (SWS) and multi-whisker stimulation (MWS) using an accumulative decoding approach rather than simple per-pulse firing rates. This method captures domain-specific integration dynamics over successive pulses.

The use of the term "principal whisker" is confusing, as it could refer to the whisker that corresponds to the recorded barrel. 

When we use the term principal whisker, the intention is indeed to refer to the whisker corresponding to the recorded barrel during single whisker stimulation. The term principal whisker is removed from Figure legend 1 and legend S1C where it may have led to  ambiguity.    

Why the statement "after the start of active whisking"? Mice are under anesthesia here; it does not appear to be relevant for the figure. 

“After the start of active whisking” refers to the state of the barrel cortex circuitry at the time of recordings. The particular reference we use comes from the habit of assessing sensory processing also from a developmental point of view. The reviewer is correct that it has nothing to do the with the status of the experiment. Nevertheless, since the reviewer found that it may create confusion, we have now taken it out. 

(8) Figure 3: The y-axis label is missing for panel C. 

This is now fixed. (dF/F).

(9) Figure 4: Axis labels are missing.

Added.

Minor: 

(10) Line 36: "progressive increase in septal spiking activity upon multi-whisker stimulation". There is no increase in septal spiking activity upon MWS; the ratio MWS/SWS increases.

We have changed the sentence as follows: Genetic removal of Elfn1, which regulates the incoming excitatory synaptic dynamics onto SST+ interneurons, leads to the loss of the progressive increase in septal spiking ratio (MWS/SWS) upon stimulation.

(11) Line 105: domain-specific, rather than column-specific, for consistency.

We have changed it.

(12) Lines 173-174: "a divergence between barrel and septa domain activity also occurred in Layer 4 from the 2nd pulse onward (Figure 1E)". The authors only show a restricted number of comparisons. Why not show the p-values as for SWS?

The statistics is now presented in current Figure 1E.

(13) Lines 151-153: "Correspondingly, when a single whisker is stimulated repeatedly, the response to the first pulse is principally bottom-up thalamic-driven responses, while the later pulses in the train are expected to also gradually engage cortico-thalamo-cortical and cortico-cortical loops." Can the authors please provide a reference?

We have now added the following references : (Kyriazi and Simons, 1993; Middleton et al., 2010; Russo et al., 2025).

(14) Lines 184-186: "Our electrophysiological experiments show a significant divergence of responses over time upon both SWS and MWS in L4 between barrels (principal and neighboring) and adjacent septa, with minimal initial difference". The only difference between the neighboring barrel and septa is the responses to the initial pulse. Can the author clarify? 

We have now changed the sentence as follows: Our electrophysiological experiments show a significant divergence of responses between domains upon both SWS and MWS in L4. (Line 198 now)

(15) Line 214: "suggest these interneurons may play a role in diverging responses between barrels and septa upon SWS". Why SWS specifically?

We have changed the sentence as follows: These results confirmed that SST+ and VIP+ interneurons have higher densities in septa compared to barrels in L4 and suggest these interneurons may play a role in diverging responses between barrels and septa. (Line 231 now).

(16) Line 235: "This result suggests that differential activation of SST+ interneurons is more likely to be involved in the domain-specific temporal ratio differences between barrels and septa". Why? The results here are not domain-specific.

We have now revised this statement to: This result suggested that temporal ratio differences specific to barrels and septa might involve differential activation of SST+ interneurons rather than VIP+ interneurons.

(17) Lines 241-243: "SST+ interneurons in the cortex are known to show distinct short-term synaptic plasticity, particularly strong facilitation of excitatory inputs, which enables them to regulate the temporal dynamics of cortical circuits." Please provide a reference.

We have now added the following references: (Grier et al., 2023; Liguz-Lecznar et al., 2016).

(18) Lines 245-247: "A key regulator of this plasticity is the synaptic protein Elfn1, which mediates short-term synaptic facilitation of excitation on SST+ interneurons (Stachniak et al., 2021, 2019; Tomioka et al., 2014)". Is Stachniak et al., 2021 not about the role of Elf1n in excitatory-to-VIP+ neuron synapses?

The reviewer correctly spotted this discrepancy . This reference has now been removed from this statement.

(19) Lines 271-272: "Building on our findings that Elfn1-dependent facilitation in SST+ interneurons is critical for maintaining barrel-septa response divergence". The authors did not show that.

We have now changed the statement to: Building on our findings that Elfn1 is critical for maintaining barrel-septa response divergence  

(20) Line 280: second firing peak, not "peal".

Thank you, it is now fixed.

(21) Lines 304-305: "These results highlight the critical role of Elfn1 in facilitating the temporal integration of 305 sensory inputs through its effects on SST+ interneurons". This claim is also overstated. 

We have now changed the statement to: These results highlight the contribution of Elfn1 to the temporal integration of sensory inputs. (Line 362)

(22) Line 329: Any reason why not cite Chen et al., Nature 2013?

We have now added this reference, as also pointed out by reviewer 1.

(23) Line 341-342: "wS1" and "wS2" instead of S1 and S2 for consistency.

Thanks, we have now updated the terms.

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

(1) Figure 3D - the SW conditions are labeled but not the MW conditions (two right graphs) - they should be labeled similarly (SSTMW, VIPMW). 

The two right graphs in Figure 3D represent paired SW vs MW comparisons of the evoked responses for SST and VIP populations, respectively.

(2) Figure 6 D and E I think it would be better if the Depth measurements were to be on the yaxis, which is more typical of these types of plots. 

We thank the reviewer for this comment. Although we appreciate this may be the case, we feel that the current presentation may be easier for the reader to navigate, and we have hence kept it. 

(3) Having an operational definition of septa versus barrel would be useful. As the authors point out, this is a tough distinction in a mouse, and often you read papers that use Barrel Wall versus Barrel Hollow/Center - operationally defining how these areas were distinguished would be helpful. 

We thank the reviewer for this comment and understand the point made.

We have now updated the methods section in line 611: 

DiI marks contained within the vGlut2 staining were defined as barrel recordings, while DiI marks outside vGlut2 staining were septal recordings.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

To support the manuscript's major claims, the authors should consider the following:

(1) Validate the septal identity of the neurons studied, either anatomically or functionally at the single-cell level (e.g., via Ca²⁺ imaging with confirmed barrel/septa mapping). 

We thank the reviewer for this suggestion, but we feel that these extensive experiments are beyond the scope of this study. 

(2) Provide both anatomical and physiological evidence to assess the possibility of altered cortical development in Elfn1 KO mice, including potential changes in barrel structure or SST⁺ cell distribution. 

To address the reviewer’s point, we have now added the following to the Discussion: “Although Elfn1 is constitutively knocked out, we find here and in previous studies that barrel structure is preserved (Stachniak et al., 2019, 2023). Further, the distribution of Elfn1 expressing interneurons is not different in KO mice, suggesting minimal developmental disruption (Dolan and Mitchell, 2013). Nonetheless, we acknowledge that subtle circuit changes cannot be ruled out without conditional knockouts.”,

(3) Examine the sensory responses of SST⁺ and VIP⁺ interneurons in deeper cortical layers, particularly layer 4, which is central to the study's main conclusions.

We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and appreciate the value it would bring to the study. We nevertheless feel that these extensive experiments are beyond the scope of this study and hence opted out from performing them. 

Minor Comments:

(1)  The authors used a CLARITY-based passive clearing protocol, which is known to sometimes induce tissue swelling or distortion. This may affect anatomical precision, especially when assigning neurons to narrow domains such as septa versus barrels. Please clarify whether tissue expansion was measured, corrected, or otherwise accounted for during analysis.

Yes, the tissue expansion was accounted during analysis for the laminar specification. We excluded the brains with severe distortion. 

(2) While the anatomical data are plotted as a function of "depth from the top of layer 4," the manuscript does not specify the precise depth ranges used to define individual cortical layers in the cleared tissue. Given the importance of laminar specificity in projection and cell type analyses, the criteria and boundaries used to delineate each layer should be explicitly stated.

Thank you for pointing this out. We now include the criteria for delineating each layer in the manuscript. “Given that the depth of Layer 4 (L4) can be reliably measured due to its welldefined barrel boundaries, and that the relative widths of other layers have been previously characterized (El-Boustani et al., 2018), we estimated laminar boundaries proportionally. Specifically, Layer 2/3 was set to approximately 1.3–1.5 times the width of L4, Layer 5a to ~0.5 times, and Layer 5b to a similar width as L4. Assuming uniform tissue expansion across the cortical column, we extrapolated the remaining laminar thicknesses proportionally.”

(3)  In several key comparisons (e.g., SST⁺ vs. VIP⁺ interneurons, or S2-projecting vs. M1projecting neurons), it is unclear whether the same barrel columns were analyzed across conditions. Given the anatomical and functional heterogeneity across wS1 columns, failing to control for this may introduce significant confounds. We recommend analyzing matched columns across groups or, if not feasible, clearly acknowledging this limitation in the manuscript.

We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. For the comparison of SST⁺ versus VIP⁺ interneurons, it would in principle have been possible to analyze the same barrel columns across groups. However, because some of the cleared brains did not reach the optimal level of clarity, our choice of columns was limited, and we were not always able to obtain sufficiently clear data from the same columns in both groups. Similarly, for the analysis of S2- versus M1-projecting neurons, variability in the position and spread of retrograde virus injections made it difficult to ensure measurements from identical barrel columns. We have now added a statement in the Discussion to acknowledge this limitation.

(4) Figure 1C: Clarify what each point in the t-SNE plot represents-e.g., a single trial, a recording channel, or an averaged response. Also, describe the input features used for dimensionality reduction, including time windows and preprocessing steps.

In response to the reviewer’s comment, we have now added the following in the methods: In summary, each point in the t-SNE plots represents an averaged response across 20 trials for a specific domain (barrel, septa, or neighbor) and genotype (WT or KO), with approximately 14 points per domain derived from the 280 trials in each dataset. The input features are preprocessed by averaging blocks of 20 trials into 1900-dimensional vectors (95ms × 20), which are then reduced to 2D using t-SNE with the specified parameters. This approach effectively highlights the segregation and clustering patterns of neural responses across cortical domains in both WT and KO conditions.

(5) Figures 1D, E (left panels): The y-axes lack unit labeling and scale bars. Please indicate whether values are in spikes/sec, spikes/bin, or normalized units.

We have now clarified this. 

(6) Figures 1D, E (right panels): The color bars lack units. Specify whether the values represent raw firing rates, z-scores, or other normalized measures. Replace the vague term "Matrix representation" with a clearer label such as "Pulse-aligned firing heatmap."

Thank you, we have now done it.

(7) Figure 1E (bottom panel): There appears to be no legend referring to these panels. Please define labels such as "B" and "S." 

Thank you, we have now done it.

(8) Figure 1E legend: If it duplicates the legend from Figure 1D, this should be made explicit or integrated accordingly. 

We have changed the structure of this figure.

(9) Figure 1F: Define "AUC" and explain how it was computed (e.g., area under the firing rate curve over 0-50 ms). Indicate whether the plotted values represent percentages and, if so, label the y-axis accordingly. If normalization was applied, describe the procedure. Include sample sizes (n) and specify what each data point represents (e.g., animal, recording site). 

The following paragraph has been added in the methods section:

The Area Under the Curve (AUC) was computed as the integral of the smoothed firing rate (spikes per millisecond) over a 50ms window following each whisker stimulation pulse, using trapezoidal integration. Firing rate data for layer 4 barrel and septal regions in wild-type (WT) and knockout (KO) mice were smoothed with a 3-point moving average and averaged across blocks of 20 trials. Plotted values represent the percentage ratio of multi-whisker (MW) to single whisker (SW) AUC with error bars showing the standard error of the mean. Each data point reflects the mean AUC ratio for a stimulation pulse across approximately 11 blocks (220 trials total). The y-axis indicates percentages.

(10) Figure 3C: Add units to the vertical axis.

We have added them.

(11) Figure 3D: Specify what each line represents (e.g., average of n cells, individual responses?). 

Each line represents an average response of a neuron.  

(12) Figure 4C legend: Same with what?". No legend refers to the bottom panels - please revise to clarify. 

Thank you. We have now changed the figure structure and legends and fixed the missing information issue.

(13) Supplementary Figure 1B: Indicate the physical length of the scale bar in micrometers. 

This has been fixed. The scale bar is 250um.

(14) Indicate the catalog number or product name of the 8×8 silicon probe used for recordings.

We have added this information. It is the A8x8-Edge-5mm-100-200-177-A64

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(21) Yamashita, T., Vavladeli, A., Pala, A., Galan, K., Crochet, S., Petersen, S. S. & Petersen, C. C. (2018). Diverse long-range axonal projections of excitatory layer 2/3 neurons in mouse barrel cortex. Front. Neuroanat. 12, 33.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

In this manuscript, Pereira de Castro and coworkers are studying potential competition between a more standard splicing factor SF1 and an alternative splicing factor called QK1. This is interesting because they bind to overlapping sequence motifs and could potentially have opposing effects on promoting the splicing reaction. To test this idea, the authors KD either SF1 or QK1 in mammalian cells and uncover several exons whose splicing regulation follows the predicted pattern of being promoted for splicing by SF1 and repressed by QK1. Importantly, these have introns enriched in SF1 and QK1 motifs. The authors then focus on one exon in particular with two tandem motifs to study the mechanism of this in greater detail and their results confirm the competition model. Mass spec analysis largely agrees with their proposal; however, it is complicated by apparently quick transition of SF1 bound complexes to later splicing intermediates. An inspired experiment in yeast shows how QK1 competition could potentially have a determinental impact on splicing in an orthogonal system. Overall these results show how splicing regulation can be achieved by competition between a "core" and alternative splicing factor and provide additional insight into the complex process of branch site recognition. The manuscript is exceptionally clear and the figures and data very logically presented. The work will be valuable to those in the splicing field who are interested in both mechanism and bioinformatics approaches to deconvolve any apparent "splicing code" being used by cells to regulate gene expression.

Strengths:

(1) The main discovery of the manuscript involving evidence for SF1/QK1 competition is quite interesting and important for this field. This evidence has been missing and may change how people think about branch site recognition.

(2) The experiments and the rationale behind them are clearly and logically presented.

(3) The experiments are carried out to a high standard and well-designed controls are included.

(4) The extrapolation of the result to yeast in order to show the potentially devastating consequences of QK1 competition was creative and informative.

Weaknesses:

Overall the weaknesses are relatively minor and involve cases where conclusions could potentially have been strengthened with additional experimentation. For example, pull-down of the U2 snRNP could be strengthened by detection of the snRNA whereas the proteins may themselves interact with these factors in the absence of the snRNA. In addition the discussion is a bit speculative given the data, but compelling nonetheless.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

In this manuscript the authors were trying to establish whether competition between the RNA binding proteins SF1 and QKI controlled splicing outcomes. These two proteins have similar binding sites and protein sequences, but SF1 lacks a dimerization motif and seems to bind a single version of the binding sequence. Importantly, these binding sequences correspond to branchpoint consensus sequences, with SF1 binding leading to productive splicing, but QKI binding leading instead to association with paraspeckle proteins. They show that in human cells SF1 generally activates exons and QKI represses, and a large group of the jointly regulated exons (43% of joint targets) are reciprocally controlled by SF1 and QKI. They focus on one of these exons RAI14 that shows this reciprocal pattern of regulation, and has 2 repeats of the binding site that make it a candidate for joint regulation, and confirm regulation within a minigene context. The authors used assembly of proteins within nuclear extracts to explain the effect of QKI versus SF1 binding. Finally the authors show that expression of QKI is lethal in yeast, and causes splicing defects.

How this fits in the field. This study is interesting and provides a conceptual advance by providing a general rule how SF1 and QKI interact with relation to binding sites, and the relative molecular fates followed, so is very useful. Most of the analysis seems to focus on one example, but the choice of this example was carefully explained in the text. The molecular analysis and global work significantly adds to the picture from the previously published paper about NUMB joint regulation by QKI and SF (Zong et al, cited in text as reference 50, that looked at SF1 and QKI binding in relation to a duplicated binding site/branchpoint sequence in NUMB).

Strengths:

The data presented are strong and clear. The ideas discussed in this paper are of wide interest, and present a simple model where two binding sites generates a potentially repressive QKI response, whereas exons that have a single upstream sequence are just regulated by SF1. The assembly of splicing complexes on RNAs derived from RAI14 in nuclear extracts, followed by mass spec gave interesting mechanistic insight into what was occurring as a result of QKI versus SF1 binding.

Weaknesses:

The authors have addressed the previous weaknesses of the study, resulting in a much stronger manuscript

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

eLife Assessment

This important manuscript provides insights into the competition between Splicing Factor 1 (SF1) and Quaking (QKI) for binding at the ACUAA branch point sequence in a model intron, regulating exon inclusion. The study employs rigorous transcriptomic, proteomic, and reporter assays, with both mammalian cell culture and yeast models. Nevertheless, while the data are convincing, broadening the analysis to additional exons and narrowing the manuscript's title to better align with the experimental scope would strengthen the work.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

In this manuscript, the authors aimed to show that SF1 and QKI compete for the intron branch point sequence ACUAA and provide evidence that QKI represses inclusion when bound to it.

Major strengths of this manuscript include:

(1) Identification of the ACUAA-like motif in exons regulated by QKI and SF1.

(2) The use of the splicing reporter and mutant analysis to show that upstream and downstream ACUAAC elements in intron 10 of RAI are required for repressing splicing.

(3) The use of proteomic to identify proteins in C2C12 nuclear extract that binds to the wild type and mutant sequence.

(4) The yeast studies showing that ectopic lethality when Qki5 expression was induced, due to increased mis-splicing of transcripts that contain the ACUAA element.

The authors conclusively show that the ACUAA sequence is bound by QKI and provide strong evidence that this leads to differences in exons inclusion and exclusion. In animal cells, and especially in human, branchpoint sequences are degenerate but seem to be recognized by specific splicing factors. Although a subset of splicing factors shows tissue-specific expression patterns most don't, suggesting that yet-to-be-identified mechanisms regulate splicing. This work suggests that an alternate mechanism could be related to the binding affinity of specific RNA binding factors for branchpoint sequences coupled with the level of these different splicing factors in a given cell.

We thank the reviewer for the positive comments.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

In this manuscript, Pereira de Castro and coworkers are studying potential competition between a more standard splicing factor SF1, and an alternative splicing factor called QK1. This is interesting because they bind to overlapping sequence motifs and could potentially have opposing effects on promoting the splicing reaction. To test this idea, the authors KD either SF1 or QK1 in mammalian cells and uncover several exons whose splicing regulation follows the predicted pattern of being promoted for splicing by SF1 and repressed by QK1. Importantly, these have introns enriched in SF1 and QK1 motifs. The authors then focus on one exon in particular with two tandem motifs to study the mechanism of this in greater detail and their results confirm the competition model. Mass spec analysis largely agrees with their proposal; however, it is complicated by the apparently quick transition of SF1-bound complexes to later splicing intermediates. An inspired experiment in yeast shows how QK1 competition could potentially have a detrimental impact on splicing in an orthogonal system. Overall, these results show how splicing regulation can be achieved by competition between a "core" and alternative splicing factor and provide additional insight into the complex process of branch site recognition. The manuscript is exceptionally clear and the figures and data are very logically presented. The work will be valuable to those in the splicing field who are interested in both mechanism and bioinformatics approaches to deconvolve any apparent "splicing code" being used by cells to regulate gene expression. Criticisms are minor and the most important of them stem from overemphasis on parts of the manuscript on the evolutionary angle when evolution itself wasn't analyzed per se.

We thank the reviewer for the positive comments and very clear and fair critical points.

Strengths:

(1) The main discovery of the manuscript involving evidence for SF1/QK1 competition is quite interesting and important for this field. This evidence has been missing and may change how people think about branch site recognition.

(2) The experiments and the rationale behind them are exceptionally clearly and logically presented. This was wonderful!

Thank you so much. We felt the overall flow of the paper and data make for a nice “story” that conveys a relatively easy-to-understand explanation for a complex subject.

(3) The experiments are carried out to a high standard and well-designed controls are included.

(4) The extrapolation of the result to yeast in order to show the potentially devastating consequences of the QK1 competition was very exciting and creative.

We agree this is a very exciting result and finding! Thanks.

Weaknesses:

Overall the weaknesses are relatively minor and involve cases where clarification is necessary, some additional analysis could bolster the arguments, and suggestions for focusing the manuscript on its strengths.

(1) The title (Ancient...evolutionary outcomes), abstract, and some parts of the discussion focus heavily on the evolutionary implications of this work. However, evolutionary analysis was not performed in these studies (e.g., when did QK1 and SF1 proteins arise and/or diverge? How does this line up with branch site motifs and evolution of U2? Any insight from recent work from Scott Roy et al?). I think this aspect either needs to be bolstered with experimental work/data or this should be tamped down in the manuscript. I suggest highlighting the idea expressed in the sentence "A nuanced implication of this model is that loss-of-function...". To me, this is better supported by the data and potentially by some analysis of mutations associated with human disease.

We have revised the title and dampened the evolutionary aspects of the previous version of the manuscript.

(2) One paper that I didn't see cited was that by Tanackovic and Kramer (Mol Biol Cell 2005). This paper is relevant because they KD SF1 and found it nonessential for splicing in vivo. Do their results have implications for those here? How do the results of the KD compare? Could QK1 competition have influenced their findings (or does their work influence the "nuanced implication" model referenced above?)?

This is an interesting point, and thank you for the suggestion. We have now included a brief description of this study in the Introduction of the revised manuscript and do note that the authors measured intron retention of a beta globin reporter and SF3A1, SF3A2, and SF3A3 during SF1 knockdown, but did not detect elevated unspliced RNA in these targets.

(3) Can the authors please provide a citation for the statement "degeneracy is observed to a higher degree in organisms with more alternative splicing"? Does recent evolutionary analysis support this?

We have removed the statement, as it did not add much to the content and I am not sure I can state the concept I was attempting to convey in a simple manner with few citations.

(4) For the data in Figure 3, I was left wondering if NMD was confounding this analysis. Can the authors respond to this and address this concern directly?

We have not measured if the reporters used in Figure 3 produce protein(s). Presumably, though, all spliced reporter RNA would be degraded equally (the included/skipped isoforms’ “reading frames” are not altered from one another). This would not be case for unspliced nuclear reporter RNA, however. Given this difference, and that our analysis can not resolve the subcellular localization of the different reporter species, we have removed the measurement of and subsequent results describing unspliced reporter RNA from Figure 3.

(5) To me, the idea that an engaged U2 snRNP was pulled down in Figure 4F would be stronger if the snRNA was detected. Was that able to be observed by northern or primer extension? Would SF1 be enriched if the U2 snRNA was degraded by RNaseH in the NE?

We did not measure any co-associating RNAs in this experimental approach, but agree that this approach would strengthen the evidence for it.

(6) I'm wondering how additive the effects of QK1 and SF1 are... In Figure 2, if QK1 and SF1 are both knocked down, is the splicing of exon 11 restored to "wt" levels?

This is an interesting question that we were unfortunately unable to address experimentally here.

(7) The first discussion section has two paragraphs that begin "How does competition between SF1..." and "Relatively little is known about how...". I found the discussion and speculation about localization, paraspekles, and lncRNAs interesting but a bit detracting from the strengths of the manuscript. I would suggest shortening these two paragraphs into a single one.

We have revised the Discussion.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

In this manuscript, the authors were trying to establish whether competition between the RNA-binding proteins SF1 and QKI controlled splicing outcomes. These two proteins have similar binding sites and protein sequences, but SF1 lacks a dimerization motif and seems to bind a single version of the binding sequence. Importantly, these binding sequences correspond to branchpoint consensus sequences, with SF1 binding leading to productive splicing, but QKI binding leading instead to association with paraspeckle proteins. They show that in human cells SF1 generally activates exons and QKI represses, and a large group of the jointly regulated exons (43% of joint targets) are reciprocally controlled by SF1 and QKI. They focus on one of these exons RAI14 that shows this reciprocal pattern of regulation, and has 2 repeats of the binding site that make it a candidate for joint regulation, and confirm regulation within a minigene context. The authors used the assembly of proteins within nuclear extracts to explain the effect of QKI versus SF1 binding. Finally, the authors show that the expression of QKI is lethal in yeast, and causes splicing defects.

How this fits in the field. This study is interesting and provides a conceptual advance by providing a general rule on how SF1 and QKI interact in relation to binding sites, and the relative molecular fates followed, so is very useful. Most of the analysis seems to focus on one example, although the molecular analysis and global work significantly add to the picture from the previously published paper about NUMB joint regulation by QKI and SF (Zong et al, cited in text as reference 50, that looked at SF1 and QKI binding in relation to a duplicated binding site/branchpoint sequence in NUMB).

Thank you for the encouraging remarks.

Strengths:

The data presented are strong and clear. The ideas discussed in this paper are of wide interest, and present a simple model where two binding sites generate a potentially repressive QKI response, whereas exons that have a single upstream sequence are just regulated by SF1. The assembly of splicing complexes on RNAs derived from RAI14 in nuclear extracts, followed by mass spec gave interesting mechanistic insight into what was occurring as a result of QKI versus SF1 binding.

Weaknesses:

I did not think the title best summarises the take-home message and could be perhaps a bit more modest. Although the authors investigated splicing patterns in yeast and human cells, yeast do not have QKI so there is no ancient competition in that case, and the study did not really investigate physiological or evolutionary outcomes in splicing, although it provides interesting speculation on them. Also as I understood it, the important issue was less conserved branchpoints in higher eukaryotes enabling alternative splicing, rather than competition for the conserved branchpoint sequence. So despite the the data being strong and properly analysed and discussed in the paper, could the authors think whether they fit best with the take-home message provided in the title? Just as a suggestion (I am sure the authors can do a better job), maybe "molecular competition between variant branchpoint sequences predict physiological and evolutionary outcomes in splicing"?

Thank you for this point (Reviewer 2 had a similar comment) and the suggestion. We have revised the title.

Although the authors do provide some global data, most of the detailed analysis is of RAI14. It would have been useful to examine members of the other quadrants in Figure 1C as well for potential binding sites to give a reason why these are not co-regulated in the same way as RAI14. How many of the RAI14 quadrants had single/double sites (the motif analysis seemed to pull out just one), and could one of the non-reciprocally regulated exons be moved into a different quadrant by addition or subtraction of a binding site or changing the branchpoint (using a minigene approach for example).

This is an interesting point that we have considered. Our intent with the focus on RAI14 was to use a naturally occurring intron bps with evidence of strong QKI binding that did not require a high degree of sequence manipulation or engineering.

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

(1) Most of my recommendations are really centered on the figures. In their current state, they detract from the data shown and could be improved: I recommend the authors use a uniform font. For example, Figure 1E and F have at least three different fonts of varying sizes making it very messy. In Figure 1C, the authors could bold the Ral14 ex11 or simply indicate that the blue is this exon in the legend, thus removing the text from this very busy graph. In Figure 4F, I would recommend, having all the labels the same size and putting those genes of interest like Sf3a1 in bold. This could also be done in Figure 4E.

Thank you for the suggestion and we have edited these (FYI the font in Fig’s 1E and 1F were from the rMAPS default output, but I agree, it gives a sloppy appearance).

(2) In Figures 4D and 4G, is there QKI binding to the downstream deletion mutant after 30 minutes? Also, in Figure 4G, are these all from the same blot? The band sizes seem to be very different between lanes. If these were not on the same blot, the original gels should be submitted.

A small amount of Qki appears to be binding after 30 min. All lanes/blots are from the same gels/membranes; see new Supplemental Figure 4 for the original (uncropped) images of the blots.

(3) The authors should indicate, the source and concentration of the antibodies used for their WB. They should also indicate the primers used for RT-PCRs.

We have revised the methods to include the antibody information and have uploaded a supplemental table 8 with all oligonucleotide sequences used (which I (Sam Fagg) neglected to do initially, so that’s my bad).

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

(1) This may come down to the author's preference but branch point and branch site are frequently two words, not a single compound word (branch point vs. branchpoint). In addition, the authors may want to use branchsite with the abbreviation BS more frequently since they often don't describe the specific point of branching, and bp and bps could be confused for the more frequent abbreviations for base pair(s).

Good suggestion; we have edited the text accordingly.

(2) In general the addition of page numbers and line numbers to the manuscript would greatly aid reviewers!

Point taken…

(3) Introduction; "...under normal growth conditions they are efficiently spliced". I would say MOST introns in yeast are efficiently spliced. This is definitely not universal.

Text edited to indicate that most are efficiently spliced.

(4) Introduction; " recognition of the bps by SF1 (mammals) (20)". The choice of reference 20 is an odd one here. I think the Robin Reed and Michael Rosbash paper was the first to show SF1 was the human homolog of BBP.

Got it, thanks (added #14 here and kept #20 also since it shows the structure of SF1 in complex with a UACUAAC bps.)

(5) Results; "QK1 and SF1 co-regulate.."; it may be useful for the reader if you could explain in more detail why exon inclusion and intron retention are expected outcomes for QK1 knockdown and vice versa for SF1. The exon inclusion here is more obvious than the intron retention phenotype. (In other words, if more exons are included shouldn't it follow that more introns are removed?)

We explain the expected results for exon inclusion in the Introduction and this paragraph of the Results. Although we have observed more intron retention under QKI loss-of-function approaches before, I am uncertain where the reviewer sees that we indicate any expected result for intron retention from either QKI or SF1 knockdown. I believe the statement you refer to might be on line 162 and starts with: “Consistent with potentially opposing functions in splicing…” ?

Also, I agree that if SF1 is a “splicing activator,” one might expect more IR in its absence (but this is not the case; there is, in fact, less), but nonetheless, the opposite outcome is observed with QKI knockdown (more IR). It is unclear why this is the case, and we did not investigate it.

(6) Results; "QK1 and SF1 co-regulate.."; "Thus the most highly represented set.." To me, the most highly represented set is those which are not both QK1-repressed and SF1-activated. Does this indicate that other factors are involved at most sites than simple competition between these two?

We have revised the sentence in question to include the text “by quadrant” in order to convey our meaning more precisely.

(7) Throughout the manuscript, 5 apostrophes and 3 apostrophes are used instead of 5 prime symbols and 3 prime symbols.

Thank you for pointing that out. We have fixed each instance of this.

(8) Sometimes SF1 is written as Sf1. (also Tatsf1)

This was a mouse/human gene/protein nomenclature error that we have fixed; thank you for pointing this out.

(9) You may want to make sure that figures are labeled consistently with the manuscript text. In Figure 1B, it is RI rather than IR. In Figure 4 it is myoblast NE rather than C2C12 nuclear extract.

We have fixed these, checked for other examples, and where relevant, edited those too.

(10) I think Figure 1A could be improved by also including a depiction of the domain arrangements of SF1 and QK1.

Done.

(11) I was a bit confused with all the lines in Figure 1E and 1F. What is the difference between the log (pVal) and upregulated plots? Can these figures be simplified or explained more thoroughly?

Based on this comment and one from Reviewer 1, we have slightly revised the wording (and font) on the output, which hopefully clarifies. These are motif enrichment plots generated by rMAPS (Refs 61 and 62) analysis of rMATS (Ref 60) data for exons more included (depicted by the red lines) or more skipped (depicted by the blue lines) compared to control versus a “background” set of exons that are detectable but unchanged. The -log₁₀ is P-value (dotted line) indicates the significance of exons more included in shRNA treatment vs control shRNA (previously read “upregulated”) compared to background exons that are detectable but unchanged; the solid lines indicate the motif score; these are described in the references indicated.

(12) Figure 1B, it is a bit hard to conclude that there is more AltEx or "RI/IR" in one sample vs. the other from these plots since the points overlay one another. Can you include numbers here?

Added (and deleted Suppl Fig S1, which was simply a chart showing the numbers).

(13) How was PSI calculated in Figure 2A?

VAST-tools (we state this in the legend in the revised version).

You may want to include rel protein (or the lower limit of detection) for Figure 2B to be consistent with 2C. Why is KD of SF1 so poor and variable between 2C and 2D?

We have not investigated this, but these blots show an optimized result that we were able to obtain for the knockdown in each cell type. It may be that HEK293 cells (Fig 2B) have a stronger requirement for SF1 than C2C12 cells…? I would argue that it is not necessarily “poor” in Fig 2C, as we observe ~70% depletion of the protein.

Why are two bands present in the gel?

Two to three isoforms of SF1 are present in most cell types.

A good (or bad, really) example of an SF1 western blot (and knockdown of ~35% in K562 or ~45% in HepG2 can also be seen on the ENCODE project website, for reference:

https://www.encodeproject.org/documents/6001a414-b096-4073-94ff-3af165617eb5/@@download/attachment/SF1_BGKLV28-49.pdf

By comparison, I think ours are much more cosmetically pleasing, and our knockdown (especially in C2C12) is much more efficient.

(14) Figure 3, The asterisk refers to a cryptic product. Can the uaAcuuuCAG be used as a branch point? Presumably the natural 3' SS is now too close so this would result in activation of a downstream 3'SS?

We did not pursue determining the identity of this minor and likely artefactual product, but we (and others) have observed a similar phenomenon when using splicing reporter-based mutational approaches.

(15) For the methods. The "RNA extraction, RT -PCR,..." subheading needs to be on its own line. Please add (w/v) or (v/v) to percentages where appropriate. Please convert ug to the symbol for "micro".

Thank you, we have made these changes.

(16) In Figure 4B, the text here and legend are microscopic. Even with reading glasses, I couldn't make anything out!

We have increased the font sizes for the text and scale bar…when referring to “legend” does the reviewer mean the scale bar?

(17) As a potential discussion item, it is worth noting that SF1 could also repress splicing if it could either not engage with U2AF or be properly displaced by U2 snRNP so the snRNA could pair. I was wondering if QK1 could similarly be activating if it could engage with U2AF. I'm unsure if this could be tested by domain swaps (and is beyond the scope of this paper). It just may be worth speculating about.

Good point and suggestion…we are looking into this.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

(1) Is the reference in the text to Figure 5F correct for actin splicing (this is just before the discussion)?

I see references several lines up from this, but I do not see a reference just before the discussion…?

(2) I was not sure why the minigene experiments showed such high levels of intron retention that seemed to be impacted also by deletion of the branchpoint sequences, and suggest that the two branchpoints are not equal in strength.

Neither were we, but Reviewer 2 has suggested that degradation of the spliced products could be rapid (NMD substrates) which could complicate the interpretation of what appears to be higher levels of intron retention. Given the possibility that this could be a non-physiological artefact, we have removed the measurement of unspliced reporter and now only show the spliced products (equally subject to degradation) and report their percent inclusion.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

In this manuscript, the authors investigate the nanoscopic distribution of glycine receptor subunits in the hippocampus, dorsal striatum, and ventral striatum of the mouse brain using single-molecule localization microscopy (SMLM). They demonstrate that only a small number of glycine receptors are localized at hippocampal inhibitory synapses. Using dual-color SMLM, they further show that clusters of glycine receptors are predominantly localized within gephyrin-positive synapses. A comparison between the dorsal and ventral striatum reveals that the ventral striatum contains approximately eight times more glycine receptors and this finding is consistent with electrophysiological data on postsynaptic inhibitory currents. Finally, using cultured hippocampal neurons, they examine the differential synaptic localization of glycine receptor subunits (α1, α2, and β). This study is significant as it provides insights into the nanoscopic localization patterns of glycine receptors in brain regions where this protein is expressed at low levels. Additionally, the study demonstrates the different localization patterns of GlyR in distinct striatal regions and its physiological relevance using SMLM and electrophysiological experiments. However, several concerns should be addressed.

Specific comments on the original version:

(1) Colocalization analysis in Figure 1A. The colocalization between Sylite and mEos-GlyRβ appears to be quite low. It is essential to assess whether the observed colocalization is not due to random overlap. The authors should consider quantifying colocalization using statistical methods, such as a pixel shift analysis, to determine whether colocalization frequencies remain similar after artificially displacing one of the channels.

(2) Inconsistency between Figure 3A and 3B. While Figure 3B indicates an ~8-fold difference in the number of mEos4b-GlyRβ detections per synapse between the dorsal and ventral striatum, Figure 3A does not appear to show a pronounced difference in the localization of mEos4b-GlyRβ on Sylite puncta between these two regions. If the images presented in Figure 3A are not representative, the authors should consider replacing them with more representative examples or providing an expanded images with multiple representative examples. Alternatively, if this inconsistency can be explained by differences in spot density within clusters, the authors should explain that.

(3) Quantification in Figure 5. It is recommended that the authors provide quantitative data on cluster formation and colocalization with Sylite puncta in Figure 5 to support their qualitative observations.

(4) Potential for pseudo replication. It's not clear whether they're performing stats tests across biological replica, images, or even synapses. They often quote mean +/- SEM with n = 1000s, and so does that mean they're doing tests on those 1000s? Need to clarify.

(5) Does mEoS effect expression levels or function of the protein? Can't see any experiments done to confirm this. Could suggest WB on homogenate, or mass spec?

(6) Quantification of protein numbers is challenging with SMLM. Issues include i) some of FP not correctly folded/mature, and ii) dependence of localisation rate on instrument, excitation/illumination intensities, and also the thresholds used in analysis. Can the authors compare with another protein that has known expression levels- e.g. PSD95? This is quite an ask, but if they could show copy number of something known to compare with, it would be useful.

(7) Rationale for doing nanobody dSTORM not clear at all. They don't explain the reason for doing the dSTORM experiments. Why not just rely on PALM for coincidence measurements, rather than tagging mEoS with a nanobody, and then doing dSTORM with that? Can they explain? Is it to get extra localisations- i.e. multiple per nanobody? If so, localising same FP multiple times wouldn't improve resolution. Also, no controls for nanobody dSTORM experiments- what about non-spec nb, or use on WT sections?

(8) What resolutions/precisions were obtained in SMLM experiments? Should perform Fourier Ring Correlation (FRC) on SR images to state resolutions obtained (particularly useful for when they're presenting distance histograms, as this will be dependent on resolution). Likewise for precision, what was mean precision? Can they show histograms of localisation precision.

(9) Why were DBSCAN parameters selected? How can they rule out multiple localisations per fluor? If low copy numbers (<10), then why bother with DBSCAN? Could just measure distance to each one.

(10) For microscopy experiment methods, state power densities, not % or "nominal power".

(11) In general, not much data presented. Any SI file with extra images etc.?

(12) Clarification of the discussion on GlyR expression and synaptic localization: The discussion on GlyR expression, complex formation, and synaptic localization is sometimes unclear, and needs terminological distinctions between "expression level", "complex formation" and "synaptic localization". For example, the authors state: "What then is the reason for the low protein expression of GlyRβ? One possibility is that the assembly of mature heteropentameric GlyR complexes depends critically on the expression of endogenous GlyR α subunits." Does this mean that GlyRβ proteins that fail to form complexes with GlyRα subunits are unstable and subject to rapid degradation? If so, the authors should clarify this point. The statement "This raises the interesting possibility that synaptic GlyRs may depend specifically on the concomitant expression of both α1 and β transcripts." suggests a dependency on α1 and β transcripts. However, is the authors' focus on synaptic localization or overall protein expression levels? If this means synaptic localization, it would be beneficial to state this explicitly to avoid confusion. To improve clarity, the authors should carefully distinguish between these different aspects of GlyR biology throughout the discussion. Additionally, a schematic diagram illustrating these processes would be highly beneficial for readers.

(13) Interpretation of GlyR localization in the context of nanodomains. The distribution of GlyR molecules on inhibitory synapses appears to be non-homogeneous, instead forming nanoclusters or nanodomains, similar to many other synaptic proteins. It is important to interpret GlyR localization in the context of nanodomain organization.

Significance:

The paper presents biological and technical advances. The biological insights revolve mostly on the documentation of Glycine receptors in particular synapses in forebrain, where they are typically expressed at very low levels. The authors provide compelling data indicating that the expression is of physiological significance. The authors have done a nice job of combining genetically tagged mice with advanced microscopy methods to tackle the question of distributions of synaptic proteins. Overall, these advances are more incremental than groundbreaking.

Comments on revised version:

The authors have addressed the majority of the significant issues raised in the review and revised the manuscript appropriately. One issue that can be further addressed relates to the issue of pseudo-replication. The authors state in their response that "All experiments were repeated at least twice to ensure reproducibility (N independent experiments). Statistical tests were performed on pooled data across the biological replicates; n denotes the number of data points used for testing (e.g., number of synaptic clusters, detections, cells, as specified in each case).". This suggests that they're not doing their stats on biological replicates, and instead are pseudo replicating. It's not clear how they have ensured reproducibility, when the stats seem to have been done on pooled data across repeats.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

In this study, Camuso et al., make use of a knock-in mouse model expressing endogenously mEos4b-tagged GlyRβ subunits to detect endogenous glycine receptors in mouse brain using single-molecule localization microscopy (SMLM). At synapses in the hippocampus GlyRβ molecules are detected at very low copy numbers. Assuming that each detected GlyRβ molecule is incorporated in a pentameric glycine receptor, it was estimated that while the majority of hippocampal inhibitory synapses do not contain glycine receptors, a small population of inhibitory synapses contain a few (up to 10) glycine receptors. Using dual-color SMLM approaches it is furthermore confirmed that the detected GlyRβ molecules are embedded in the postsynaptic domain marked by gephyrin. In contrast to the hippocampus, at inhibitory synapses in the striatum GlyRβ molecules were detected at considerably higher copy numbers. Interestingly, the observed number of GlyRβ detections was significantly higher in the ventral striatum compared to the dorsal striatum. These findings are corroborated by electrophysiological recordings showing that postsynaptic glycinergic currents can be readily detected in the ventral striatum but are almost absent in the dorsal striatum. Using lentiviral overexpression of recombinant GlyRalpha1, alpha2, and beta subunits in cultured hippocampal neurons, it is shown that GlyR alpha1 subunits are readily detectable at synapses, but overexpressed GlyRalpha2 and beta subunits did not strongly enrich at synapses. This could indicate that GlyRa1 expression is limiting the synaptic expression of GlyRβ-containing glycine receptors in hippocampal neurons.

Comments on revised version:

This revised manuscript is significantly improved. New experimental and quantitative analysis is presented that strengthen the conclusions. Overall, the results presented in this manuscript are based on carefully performed SMLM experiments and are well-presented and described. The knock-in mouse with endogenously tagged GlyRβ molecules is a very strong aspect of this study and provides confidence in the labeling, the combination with SMLM is very strong as it provides high sensitivity and spatial resolution. These results confirm previous studies and will be of interest to a specialised audience interested in glycine receptors, inhibitory synapse biology and super-resolution microscopy.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

We thank the editors of eLife and the reviewers for their thorough evaluation of our study. As regards the final comments of reviewer 1 please note that all experimental replicates were first analyzed separately, and were then pooled, since the observed changes were comparable between experiments. This mean that statistical analyses were done on pooled biological replicates.

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

General Statements

We thank the reviewers for their thorough and constructive evaluation of our work. We have revised the manuscript carefully and addressed all the criticisms raised, in particular the issues mentioned by several of the reviewers (see point-by-point response below). We have also added a number of explanations in the text for the sake of clarity, while trying to keep the manuscript as concise as possible.

In our view, the novelty of our research is two-fold. From a neurobiological point of view, we provide conclusive evidence for the existence of glycine receptors (GlyRs) at inhibitory synapses in various brain regions including the hippocampus, dentate gyrus and sub-regions of the striatum. This solves several open questions and has fundamental implications for our understanding of the organisation and function of inhibitory synapses in the telencephalon. Secondly, our study makes use of the unique sensitivity of single molecule localisation microscopy (SMLM) to identify low protein copy numbers. This is a new way to think about SMLM as it goes beyond a mere structural characterisation and towards a quantitative assessment of synaptic protein assemblies.

Point-by-point description of the revisions

Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity): 

In this manuscript, the authors investigate the nanoscopic distribution of glycine receptor subunits in the hippocampus, dorsal striatum, and ventral striatum of the mouse brain using single-molecule localization microscopy (SMLM). They demonstrate that only a small number of glycine receptors are localized at hippocampal inhibitory synapses. Using dual-color SMLM, they further show that clusters of glycine receptors are predominantly localized within gephyrinpositive synapses. A comparison between the dorsal and ventral striatum reveals that the ventral striatum contains approximately eight times more glycine receptors and this finding is consistent with electrophysiological data on postsynaptic inhibitory currents. Finally, using cultured hippocampal neurons, they examine the differential synaptic localization of glycine receptor subunits (α1, α2, and β). This study is significant as it provides insights into the nanoscopic localization patterns of glycine receptors in brain regions where this protein is expressed at low levels. Additionally, the study demonstrates the different localization patterns of GlyR in distinct striatal regions and its physiological relevance using SMLM and electrophysiological experiments. However, several concerns should be addressed. 

The following are specific comments: 

(1) Colocalization analysis in Figure 1A. The colocalization between Sylite and mEos-GlyRβ appears to be quite low. It is essential to assess whether the observed colocalization is not due to random overlap. The authors should consider quantifying colocalization using statistical methods, such as a pixel shift analysis, to determine whether colocalization frequencies remain similar after artificially displacing one of the channels. 

Following the suggestion of reviewer 1, we re-analysed CA3 images of Glrb^eos/eos hippocampal slices by applying a pixel-shift type of control, in which the Sylite channel (in far red) was horizontally flipped relative to the mEos4b-GlyRβ channel (in green, see Methods). As expected, the number of mEos4b-GlyRβ detections per gephyrin cluster was markedly reduced compared to the original analysis (revised Fig. 1B), confirming that the synaptic mEos4b detections exceed chance levels (see page 5). 

(2) Inconsistency between Figure 3A and 3B. While Figure 3B indicates an ~8-fold difference in the number of mEos4b-GlyRβ detections per synapse between the dorsal and ventral striatum, Figure 3A does not appear to show a pronounced difference in the localization of mEos4bGlyRβ on Sylite puncta between these two regions. If the images presented in Figure 3A are not representative, the authors should consider replacing them with more representative examples or providing an expanded images with multiple representative examples. Alternatively, if this inconsistency can be explained by differences in spot density within clusters, the authors should explain that. 

The pointillist images in Fig. 3A are essentially binary (red-black). Therefore, the density of detections at synapses cannot be easily judged by eye. For clarity, the original images in Fig. 3A have been replaced with two other examples that better reflect the different detection numbers in the dorsal and ventral striatum. 

(3) Quantification in Figure 5. It is recommended that the authors provide quantitative data on cluster formation and colocalization with Sylite puncta in Figure 5 to support their qualitative observations. 

This is an important point that was also raised by the other reviewers. We have performed additional experiments to increase the data volume for analysis. For quantification, we used two approaches. First, we counted the percentage of infected cells in which synaptic localisation of the recombinant receptor subunit was observed (Fig. 5C). We found that mEos4b-GlyRa1 consistently localises at synapses, indicating that all cells express endogenous GlyRb. When neurons were infected with mEos4b-GlyRb, fewer cells had synaptic clusters, meaning that indeed, GlyR alpha subunits are the limiting factor for synaptic targeting. In cultures infected with mEos4b-GlyRa2, only very few neurons displayed synaptic localisation (as judged by epifluorescence imaging). We think this shows that GlyRa2 is less capable of forming heteromeric complexes than GlyRa1, in line with our previous interpretation (see pp. 9-10, 13). 

Secondly, we quantified the total intensity of each subunit at gephyrin-positive domains, both in infected neurons as well as non-infected control cultures (Fig. 5D). We observed that mEos4bGlyRa1 intensity at gephyrin puncta was higher than that of the other subunits, again pointing to efficient synaptic targeting of GlyRa1. Gephyrin cluster intensities (Sylite labelling) were not significantly different in GlyRb and GlyRa2 expressing neurons compared to the uninfected control, indicating that the lentiviral expression of recombinant subunits does not fundamentally alter the size of mixed inhibitory synapses in hippocampal neurons. Interestingly, gephyrin levels were slightly higher in hippocampal neurons expressing mEos4b-GlyRa1. In our view, this comes from an enhanced expression and synaptic targeting of mEos4b-GlyRa1 heteromers with endogenous GlyRb, pointing to a structural role of GlyRa1/b in hippocampal synapses (pp. 10, 13).

The new data and analyses have been described and illustrated in the relevant sections of the manuscript.

(4) Potential for pseudo replication. It's not clear whether they're performing stats tests across biological replica, images, or even synapses. They often quote mean +/- SEM with n = 1000s, and so does that mean they're doing tests on those 1000s? Need to clarify. 

All experiments were repeated at least twice to ensure reproducibility (N independent experiments). Statistical tests were performed on pooled data across the biological replicates; n denotes the number of data points used for testing (e.g., number of synaptic clusters, detections, cells, as specified in each case). We have systematically given these numbers in the revised manuscript (n, N, and other experimental parameters such as the number of animals used, coverslips, images or cells). Data are generally given as mean +/- SEM or as mean +/- SD as indicated.

(5) Does mEoS effect expression levels or function of the protein? Can't see any experiments done to confirm this. Could suggest WB on homogenate, or mass spec? 

The Glrb^eos/eos knock-in mouse line has been characterised previously and does not to display any ultrastructural or functional deficits at inhibitory synapses (Maynard et al. 2021 eLife). GlyRβ expression and glycine-evoked responses were not significantly different to those of the wildtype. The synaptic localisation of mEos4b-GlyRb in KI animals demonstrates correct assembly of heteromeric GlyRs and synaptic targeting. Accordingly, the animals do not display any obvious phenotype. We have clarified this in the manuscript (p. 4). In the case of cultured neurons, long-term expression of fluorescent receptor subunits with lentivirus   has proven ideal to achieve efficient synaptic targeting. The low and continuous supply of recombinant receptors ensures assembly with endogenous subunits to form heteropentameric receptor complexes (e.g. [Patrizio et al. 2017 Sci Rep]). In the present study, lentivirus infection did not induce any obvious differences in the number or size of inhibitory synapses compared to control neurons, as judged by Sylite labelling of synaptic gephyrin puncta (new Fig. 5D).

(6) Quantification of protein numbers is challenging with SMLM. Issues include i) some of FP not correctly folded/mature, and ii) dependence of localisation rate on instrument, excitation/illumination intensities, and also the thresholds used in analysis. Can the authors compare with another protein that has known expression levels- e.g. PSD95? This is quite an ask, but if they could show copy number of something known to compare with, it would be useful. 

We agree that absolute quantification with SMLM is challenging, since the number of detections depends on fluorophore maturation, photophysics, imaging conditions, and analysis thresholds (discussed in Patrizio & Specht 2016, Neurophotonics). For this reason, only very few datasets provide reliable copy numbers, even for well-studied proteins such as PSD-95. One notable exception is the study by Maynard et al. (eLife 2021) that quantified endogenous GlyRβcontaining receptors in spinal cord synapses using SMLM combined with correlative electron microscopy. The strength of this work was the use of a KI mouse strain, which ensures that mEos4b-GlyRβ expression follows intrinsic regional and temporal profiles. The authors reported a stereotypic density of ~2,000 GlyRs/µm² at synapses, corresponding to ~120 receptors per synapse in the dorsal horn and ~240 in the ventral horn, taking into account various parameters including receptor stoichiometry and the functionality of the fluorophore. These values are very close to our own calculations of GlyR numbers at spinal cord synapses that were obtained slightly differently in terms of sample preparation, microscope setup, imaging conditions, and data analysis, lending support to our experimental approach. Nevertheless, the obtained GlyR copy numbers at hippocampal synapses clearly have to be taken as estimates rather than precise figures, because the number of detections from a single mEos4b fluorophore can vary substantially, meaning that the fluorophores are not represented equally in pointillist images. This can affect the copy number calculation for a specific synapse, in particular when the numbers are low (e.g. in hippocampus), however, it should not alter the average number of detections (Fig. 1B) or the (median) molecule numbers of the entire population of synapses (Fig. 1C). We have discussed the limitations of our approach (p. 11).

(7) Rationale for doing nanobody dSTORM not clear at all. They don't explain the reason for doing the dSTORM experiments. Why not just rely on PALM for coincidence measurements, rather than tagging mEoS with a nanobody, and then doing dSTORM with that? Can they explain? Is it to get extra localisations- i.e. multiple per nanobody? If so, localising same FP multiple times wouldn't improve resolution. Also, no controls for nanobody dSTORM experiments- what about non-spec nb, or use on WT sections? 

As discussed above (point 6), the detection of fluorophores with SMLM is influenced by many parameters, not least the noise produced by emitting molecules other than the fluorophore used for labelling. Our study is exceptional in that it attempts to identify extremely low molecule numbers (down to 1). To verify that the detections obtained with PALM correspond to mEos4b, we conducted robust control experiments (including pixel-shift as suggested by the reviewer, see point 1, revised Fig. 1B). The rationale for the nanobody-based dSTORM experiments was twofold: (1) to have an independent readout of the presence of low-copy GlyRs at inhibitory synapses and (2) to analyse the nanoscale organisation of GlyRs relative to the synaptic gephyrin scaffold using dual-colour dSTORM with spectral demixing (see p. 6). The organic fluorophores used in dSTORM (AF647, CF680) ensure high photon counts, essential for reliable co-localisation and distance analysis. PALM and dSTORM cannot be combined in dual-colour mode, as they require different buffers and imaging conditions. 

The specificity of the anti-Eos nanobody was demonstrated by immunohistochemistry in spinal cord cultures expressing mEos4b-GlyRb and wildtype control tissue (Fig. S3). In response to the reviewer's remarks, we also performed a negative control experiment in Glrb^eos/eos slices (dSTORM), in which the nanobody was omitted (new Fig. S4F,G). Under these conditions, spectral demixing produced a single peak corresponding to CF680 (gephyrin) without any AF647 contribution (Fig. S4F). The background detection of "false" AF647 detections at synapses was significantly lower than in the slices labelled with the nanobody. We conclude that the fluorescence signal observed in our dual-colour dSTORM experiments arises from the specific detection of mEos4b-GlyRb by the nanobody, rather than from background, crossreactivity or wrong attribution of colour during spectral demixing. We have added these data and explanations in the results (p. 7) and in the figure legend of Fig. S4F,G.

(8) What resolutions/precisions were obtained in SMLM experiments? Should perform Fourier Ring Correlation (FRC) on SR images to state resolutions obtained (particularly useful for when they're presenting distance histograms, as this will be dependent on resolution). Likewise for precision, what was mean precision? Can they show histograms of localisation precision. 

This is an interesting question in the context of our experiments with low-copy GlyRs, since the spatial resolution of SMLM is limited also by the density of molecules, i.e. the sampling of the structure in question (Nyquist-Shannon criterion). Accordingly, the priority of the PALM experiments was to improve the sensibility of SMLM for the identification of mEos4b-GlyRb subunits, rather than to maximize the spatial resolution. The mean localisation precision in PALM was 33 +/- 12 nm, as calculated from the fitting parameters of each detection (Zeiss, ZEN software), which ultimately result from their signal-to-noise ratio. This is a relatively low precision for SMLM, which can be explained by the low brightness of mEos4b compared to organic fluorophores together with the elevated fluorescence background in tissue slices.

In the case of dSTORM, the aim was to study the relative distribution of GlyRs within the synaptic scaffold, for which a higher localisation precision was required (p. 6). Therefore, detections with a precision ≥ 25 nm were filtered during analysis with NEO software (Abbelight). The retained detections had a mean localisation precision of 12 +/- 5 for CF680 (Sylite) and 11 +/- 4 for AF647 (nanobody). These values are given in the revised manuscript (pp. 18, 22).

(9) Why were DBSCAN parameters selected? How can they rule out multiple localisations per fluor? If low copy numbers (<10), then why bother with DBSCAN? Could just measure distance to each one. 

Multiple detections of the same fluorophore are intrinsic to dSTORM imaging and have not been eliminated from the analysis. Small clusters of detections likely represent individual molecules (e.g. single receptors in the extrasynaptic regions, Fig. 2A). DBSCAN is a robust clustering method that is quite insensitive to minor changes in the choice of parameters. For dSTORM of synaptic gephyrin clusters (CF680), a relatively low length (80 nm radius) together with a high number of detections (≥ 50 neighbours) were chosen to reconstruct the postsynaptic domain with high spatial resolution (see point 8). In the case of the GlyR (nanobody-AF647), the clustering was done mostly for practical reasons, as it provided the coordinates of the centre of mass of the detections. The low stringency of this clustering (200 nm radius, ≥ 5 neighbours) effectively filters single detections that can result from background noise or incorrect demixing. An additional reference explaining the use of DBSCAN including the choice of parameters is given on p. 22 (see also R2 point 4).

(10) For microscopy experiment methods, state power densities, not % or "nominal power". 

Done. We now report the irradiance (laser power density) instead of nominal power (pp. 18, 21). 

(11) In general, not much data presented. Any SI file with extra images etc.? 

The original submission included four supplementary figures with additional data and representative images that should have been available to the reviewer (Figs. S1-S4). The SI file has been updated during revision (new Fig. S4E-G). 

(12) Clarification of the discussion on GlyR expression and synaptic localization: The discussion on GlyR expression, complex formation, and synaptic localization is sometimes unclear, and needs terminological distinctions between "expression level", "complex formation" and "synaptic localization". For example, the authors state:"What then is the reason for the low protein expression of GlyRβ? One possibility is that the assembly of mature heteropentameric GlyR complexes depends critically on the expression of endogenous GlyR α subunits." Does this mean that GlyRβ proteins that fail to form complexes with GlyRα subunits are unstable and subject to rapid degradation? If so, the authors should clarify this point. The statement "This raises the interesting possibility that synaptic GlyRs may depend specifically on the concomitant expression of both α1 and β transcripts." suggests a dependency on α1 and β transcripts. However, is the authors' focus on synaptic localization or overall protein expression levels? If this means synaptic localization, it would be beneficial to state this explicitly to avoid confusion. To improve clarity, the authors should carefully distinguish between these different aspects of GlyR biology throughout the discussion. Additionally, a schematic diagram illustrating these processes would be highly beneficial for readers. 

We thank the reviewer to point this out. We are dealing with several processes; protein expression that determines subunit availability and the assembly of pentameric GlyRs complexes, surface expression, membrane diffusion and accumulation of GlyRb-containing receptor complexes at inhibitory synapses. We have edited the manuscript, particularly the discussion and tried to be as clear as possible in our wording.

We chose not to add a schematic illustration for the time being, because any graphical representation is necessarily a simplification. Instead, we preferred to summarise the main numbers in tabular form (Table 1). We are of course open to any other suggestions.

(13) Interpretation of GlyR localization in the context of nanodomains. The distribution of GlyR molecules on inhibitory synapses appears to be non-homogeneous, instead forming nanoclusters or nanodomains, similar to many other synaptic proteins. It is important to interpret GlyR localization in the context of nanodomain organization. 

The dSTORM images in Fig. 2 are pointillist representations that show individual detections rather than molecules. Small clusters of detections are likely to originate from a single AF647 fluorophore (in the case of nanobody labelling) and therefore represent single GlyRb subunits. Since GlyR copy numbers are so low at hippocampal synapses (≤ 5), the notion of nanodomain is not directly applicable. Our analysis therefore focused on the integration of GlyRs within the postsynaptic scaffold, rather than attempting to define nanodomain structures (see also response to point 8 of R1). A clarification has been added in the revised manuscript (p. 6).

Reviewer #1 (Significance): 

The paper presents biological and technical advances. The biological insights revolve mostly on the documentation of Glycine receptors in particular synapses in forebrain, where they are typically expressed at very low levels. The authors provide compelling data indicating that the expression is of physiological significance. The authors have done a nice job of combining genetically-tagged mice with advanced microscopy methods to tackle the question of distributions of synaptic proteins. Overall these advances are more incremental than groundbreaking. 

We thank the reviewer for acknowledging both the technical and biological advances of our study. While we recognize that our work builds upon established models, we consider that it also addresses important unresolved questions, namely that GlyRs are present and specifically anchored at inhibitory synapses in telencephalic regions, such as the hippocampus and striatum. From a methodological point of view, our study demonstrates that SMLM can be applied not only for structural analysis of highly abundant proteins, but also to reliably detect proteins present at very low copy numbers. This ability to identify and quantify sparse molecule populations adds a new dimension to SMLM applications, which we believe increases the overall impact of our study beyond the field of synaptic neuroscience.

Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity): 

In their manuscript "Single molecule counting detects low-copy glycine receptors in hippocampal and striatal synapses" Camuso and colleagues apply single molecule localization microscopy (SMLM) methods to visualize low copy numbers of GlyRs at inhibitory synapses in the hippocampal formation and the striatum. SMLM analysis revealed higher copy numbers in striatum compared to hippocampal inhibitory synapses. They further provide evidence that these low copy numbers are tightly linked to post-synaptic scaffolding protein gephyrin at inhibitory synapses. Their approach profits from the high sensitivity and resolution of SMLM and challenges the controversial view on the presence of GlyRs in these formations although there are reports (electrophysiology) on the presence of GlyRs in these particular brain regions. These new datasets in the current manuscript may certainly assist in understanding the complexity of fundamental building blocks of inhibitory synapses. 

However I have some minor points that the authors may address for clarification: 

(1) In Figure 1 the authors apply PALM imaging of mEos4b-GlyRß (knockin) and here the corresponding Sylite label seems to be recorded in widefield, it is not clearly stated in the figure legend if it is widefield or super-resolved. In Fig 1 A - is the scale bar 5 µm? Some Sylite spots appear to be sized around 1 µm, especially the brighter spots, but maybe this is due to the lower resolution of widefield imaging? Regarding the statistical comparison: what method was chosen to test for normality distribution, I think this point is missing in the methods section. 

This is correct; the apparent size of the Sylite spots does not reflect the real size of the synaptic gephyrin domain due to the limited resolution of widefield imaging including the detection of outof-focus light. We have clarified in the legend of Fig. 1A that Sylite labelling was with classic epifluorescence microscopy. The scale bar in Fig. 1A corresponds to 5 µm. Since the data were not normally distributed, nonparametric tests (Kruskal- Wallis one-way ANOVA with Dunn’s multiple comparison test or Mann-Whitney U-test for pairwise comparisons) were used (p. 23). 

Moreover I would appreciate a clarification and/or citation that the knockin model results in no structural and physiological changes at inhibitory synapses, I believe this model has been applied in previous studies and corresponding clarification can be provided. 

The Glrbeos/eos mouse model has been described previously and does not exhibit any structural or physiological phenotypes (Maynard et al. 2021 eLife). The issue was also raised by reviewer R1 (point 5) and has been clarified in the revised manuscript (p. 4).

(2) In the next set of experiments the authors switch to demixing dSTORM experiments - an explanation why this is performed is missing in the text - I guess better resolution to perform more detailed distance measurements? For these experiments: which region of the hippocampus did the authors select, I cannot find this information in legend or main text. 

Yes, the dSTORM experiments enable dual-colour structural analysis at high spatial resolution (see response to R1 point 7). An explanation has been added (p. 6).

(3) Regarding parameters of demixing experiments: the number of frames (10.000) seems quite low and the exposure time higher than expected for Alexa 647. Can the authors explain the reason for chosing these particular parameters (low expression profile of the target - so better separation?, less fluorophores on label and shorter collection time?) or is there a reference that can be cited? The laser power is given in the methods in percentage of maximal output power, but for better comparison and reproducibility I recommend to provide the values of a power meter (kW/cm2) as lasers may change their maximum output power during their lifetime. 

Acquisition parameters (laser power, exposure time) for dSTORM were chosen to obtain a good localisation precision (~12 nm; see R1 point 8). The number of frames is adequate to obtain well sampled gephyrin scaffolds in the CF680 channel. In the case of the GlyR (nanobody-AF647), the concept of spatial resolution does not really apply due to the low number of targets (see R1, point 13). Power density (irradiance) values have now been given (pp. 18, 21).

(4) For analysis of subsynaptic distribution: how did the authors decide to choose the parameters in the NEO software for DBSCAN clustering - was a series of parameters tested to find optimal conditions and did the analysis start with an initial test if data is indeed clustered (K-ripley) or is there a reference in literature that can be provided? 

DBSCAN parameters were optimised manually, by testing different values. Identification of dense and well-delimited gephyrin clusters (CF680) was achieved with a small radius and a high number of detections (80 nm, ≥ 50 neighbours), whereas filtering of low-density background in the AF647 channel (GlyRs) required less stringent parameters (200 nm, ≥ 5) due to the low number of target molecules. Similar parameters were used in a previous publication (Khayenko et al. 2022, Angewandte Chemie). The reference has been provided on p. 22 (see also R1 point 9).

(5) A conclusion/discussion of the results presented in Figure 5 is missing in the text/discussion. 

This part of the manuscript has been completely overhauled. It includes new experimental data, quantification of the data (new Fig.5), as well as the discussion and interpretation of our findings (see also R1, point 3). In agreement with our earlier interpretation, the data confirm that low availability of GlyRa1 subunits limits the expression and synaptic targeting of GlyRa1/b heteropentamers. The observation that GlyRa1 overexpression with lentivirus increases the size of the postsynaptic gephyrin domain further points to a structural role, whereby GlyRs can enhance the stability (and size) of inhibitory synapses in hippocampal neurons, even at low copy numbers (pp. 13-14). 

(6) In line 552 "suspension" is misleading, better use "solution" 

Done.

Reviewer #2 (Significance): 

Significance: The manuscript provides new insights to presence of low-copy numbers by visualizing them via SMLM. This is the first report that visualizes GlyR optically in the brain applying the knock-in model of mEOS4b tagged GlyRß and quantifies their copy number comparing distribution and amount of GlyRs from hippocampus and striatum. Imaging data correspond well to electrophysiological measurements in the manuscript. 

Field of expertise: Super-Resolution Imaging and corresponding analysis 

Reviewer #4 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity): 

In this study, Camuso et al., make use of a knock-in mouse model expressing endogenously mEos4b-tagged GlyRβ to detect endogenous glycine receptors using single-molecule localization microscopy. The main conclusion from this study is that in the hippocampus GlyRβ molecules are barely detected, while inhibitory synapses in the ventral striatum seem to express functionally relevant GlyR numbers. 

I have a few points that I hope help to improve the strength of this study. 

- In the hippocampus, this study finds that the numbers of detections are very low. The authors perform adequate controls to indicate that these localizations are above noise level. Nevertheless, it remains questionable that these reflect proper GlyRs. The suggestion that in hippocampal synapses the low numbers of GlyRβ molecules "are important in assembly or maintenance of inhibitory synaptic structures in the brain" is on itself interesting, but is not at all supported. It is also difficult to envision how such low numbers could support the structure of a synapse. A functional experiment showing that knockdown of GlyRs affects inhibitory synapse structure in hippocampal neurons would be a minimal test of this. 

It is not clear what the reviewer means by “it remains questionable that these reflect proper GlyRs”. The PALM experiments include a series of stringent controls (see R1, point 1) demonstrating the existence of low-copy GlyRs at inhibitory synapses in the hippocampus (Fig. 1) and in the striatum (Fig. 3), and are backed up by dSTORM experiments (Fig. 2). We have no reason to doubt that these receptors are fully functional (as demonstrated for the ventral striatum (Fig. 4). However, due to their low number, a role in inhibitory synaptic transmission is clearly limited, at least in the hippocampus and dorsal striatum. 

We therefore propose a structural role, where the GlyRs could be required to stabilise the postsynaptic gephyrin domain in hippocampal neurons. This is based on the idea that the GlyRgephyrin affinity is much higher than that of the GABAAR-gephyrin interaction (reviewed in Kasaragod & Schindelin 2018 Front Mol Neurosci). Accordingly, there is a close relationship between GlyRs and gephyrin numbers, sub-synaptic distribution, and dynamics in spinal cord synapses that are mostly glycinergic (Specht et al. 2013 Neuron; Maynard et al. 2021 eLife; Chapdelaine et al. 2021 Biophys J). It is reasonable to assume that low-copy GlyRs could play a similar structural role at hippocampal synapses. A knockdown experiment targeting these few receptors is technically very challenging and beyond the scope of this study. However, in response to the reviewer's question we have conducted new experiments in cultured hippocampal neurons (new Fig. 5). They demonstrate that overexpression of GlyRa1/b heteropentamers increases the size of the postsynaptic domain in these neurons, supporting our interpretation of a structural role of low-copy GlyRs (p. 14).

- The endogenous tagging strategy is a very strong aspect of this study and provides confidence in the labeling of GlyRβ molecules. One caveat however, is that this labeling strategy does not discriminate whether GlyRβ molecules are on the cell membrane or in internal compartments. Can the authors provide an estimate of the ratio of surface to internal GlyRβ molecules? 

Gephyrin is known to form a two-dimensional scaffold below the synaptic membrane to which inhibitory GlyRs and GABAARs attach (reviewed in Alvarez 2017 Brain Res). The majority of the synaptic receptors are therefore thought to be located in the synaptic membrane, which is supported by the close relationship between the sub-synaptic distribution of GlyRs and gephyrin in spinal cord neurons (e.g. Maynard et al. 2021 eLife). To demonstrate the surface expression of GlyRs at hippocampal synapses we labelled cultured hippocampal neurons expressing mEos4b-GlyRa1 with anti-Eos nanobody in non-permeabilised neurons (see Author response image 1). The close correspondence between the nanobody (AF647) and the mEos4b signal confirms that the majority of the GlyRs are indeed located in the synaptic membrane.

Author response image 1.

Left: Lentivirus expression of mEos4b-GlyRa1 in fixed and non-permeabilised hippocampal neurons (mEos4b signal). Right: Surface labelling of the recombinant subunit with anti-Eos nanoboby (AF647). 

- “We also estimated the absolute number of GlyRs per synapse in the hippocampus. The number of mEos4b detections was converted into copy numbers by dividing the detections at synapses by the average number of detections of individual mEos4b-GlyRβ containing receptor complexes”. In essence this is a correct method to estimate copy numbers, and the authors discuss some of the pitfalls associated with this approach (i.e., maturation of fluorophore and detection limit). Nevertheless, the authors did not subtract the number of background localizations determined in the two negative control groups. This is critical, particularly at these low-number estimations. 

We fully agree that background subtraction can be useful with low detection numbers. In the revised manuscript, copy numbers are now reported as background-corrected values. Specifically, the mean number of detections measured in wildtype slices was used to calculate an equivalent receptor number, which was then subtracted from the copy number estimates across hippocampus, spinal cord and striatum. This procedure is described in the methods (p. 20) and results (p. 5, 8), and mentioned in the figure legends of Fig. 1C, 3C. The background corrected values are given in the text and Table 1.

- Furthermore, the authors state that "The advantage of this estimation is that it is independent of the stoichiometry of heteropentameric GlyRs". However, if the stoichometry is unknown, the number of counted GlyRβ subunits cannot simply be reported as the number of GlyRs. This should be discussed in more detail, and more carefully reported throughout the manuscript. 

The reviewer is right to point this out. There is still some debate about the stoichiometry of heteropentameric GlyRs. Configurations with 2a:3b, 3a:2b and 4a:1b subunits have been advanced (e.g. Grudzinska et al. 2005 Neuron; Durisic et al. 2012 J Neurosci; Patrizio et al. 2017 Sci Rep; Zhu & Gouaux 2021 Nature). We have therefore chosen a quantification that is independent of the underlying stoichiometry. Since our quantification is based on very sparse clusters of mEos4b detections that likely originate from a single receptor complex (irrespective of its stoichiometry), the reported values actually reflect the number of GlyRs (and not GlyRb subunits). We have clarified this in the results (p. 5) and throughout the manuscript (Table 1). 

- The dual-color imaging provides insights in the subsynaptic distribution of GlyRβ molecules in hippocampal synapses. Why are similar studies not performed on synapses in the ventral striatum where functionally relevant numbers of GlyRβ molecules are found? Here insights in the subsynaptic receptor distribution would be of much more interest as it can be tight to the function. 

This is an interesting suggestion. However, the primary aim of our study was to identify the existence of GlyRs in hippocampal regions. At low copy numbers, the concept of sub-synaptic domains (SSDs, e.g. Yang et al. 2021 EMBO Rep) becomes irrelevant (see R1 point 13). It should be pointed out that the dSTORM pointillist images (Fig. 2A) represent individual GlyR detections rather than clusters of molecules. In the striatum, our specific purpose was to solve an open question about the presence of GlyRs in different subregions (putamen, nucleus accumbens).

- It is unclear how the experiments in Figure 5 add to this study. These results are valid, but do not seem to directly test the hypothesis that "the expression of α subunits may be limiting factor controlling the number of synaptic GlyRs". These experiments simply test if overexpressed α subunits can be detected. If the α subunits are limiting, measuring the effect of α subunit overexpression on GlyRβ surface expression would be a more direct test. 

Both R1 and R2 have also commented on the data in Fig. 5 and their interpretation. We have substantially revised this section as described before (see R1 point 3) including additional experiments and quantification of the data (new Fig. 5). The findings lend support to our earlier hypothesis that GlyR alpha subunits (in particular GlyRa1) are the limiting factor for the expression of heteropentameric GlyRa/b in hippocampal neurons (pp. 13-14). Since the GlyRa1 subunit itself does not bind to gephyrin (Patrizio et al. 2017 Sci Rep), the synaptic localisation of the recombinant mEos4b-GlyRa1 subunits is proof that they have formed heteropentamers with endogenous GlyRb subunits and driven their membrane trafficking, which the GlyRb subunits are incapable of doing on their own.

Reviewer #4 (Significance): 

These results are based on carefully performed single-molecule localization experiments, and are well-presented and described. The knockin mouse with endogenously tagged GlyRβ molecules is a very strong aspect of this study and provides confidence in the labeling, the combination with single-molecule localization microscopy is very strong as it provides high sensitivity and spatial resolution. 

The conceptual innovation however seems relatively modest, these results confirm previous studies but do not seem to add novel insights. This study is entirely descriptive and does not bring new mechanistic insights. 

This study could be of interest to a specialized audience interested in glycine receptor biology, inhibitory synapse biology and super-resolution microscopy. 

My expertise is in super-resolution microscopy, synaptic transmission and plasticity 

As we have stated before, the novelty of our study lies in the use of SMLM for the identification of very small numbers of molecules, which requires careful control experiments. This is something that has not been done before and that can be of interest to a wider readership, as it opens up SMLM for ultrasensitive detection of rare molecular events. Using this approach, we solve two open scientific questions: (1) the demonstration that low-copy GlyRs are present at inhibitory synapses in the hippocampus, (2) the sub-region specific expression and functional role of GlyRs in the ventral versus dorsal striatum.

The following review was provided later under the name “Reviewer #4”. To avoid confusion with the last reviewer from above we will refer to this review as R4-2.

Reviewer #4-2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):  

Summary:

Provide a short summary of the findings and key conclusions (including methodology and model system(s) where appropriate).

The authors investigate the presence of synaptic glycine receptors in the telencephalon, whose presence and function is poorly understood. 

Using a transgenically labeled glycine receptor beta subunit (Glrb-mEos4b) mouse model together with super-resolution microscopy (SLMM, dSTORM), they demonstrate the presence of a low but detectable amount of synaptically localized GLRB in the hippocampus. While they do not perform a functional analysis of these receptors, they do demonstrate that these subunits are integrated into the inhibitory postsynaptic density (iPSD) as labeled by the scaffold protein gephyrin. These findings demonstrate that a low level of synaptically localized glycerine receptor subunits exist in the hippocampal formation, although whether or not they have a functional relevance remains unknown.

They then proceed to quantify synaptic glycine receptors in the striatum, demonstrating that the ventral striatum has a significantly higher amount of GLRB co-localized with gephyrin than the dorsal striatum or the hippocampus. They then recorded pharmacologically isolated glycinergic miniature inhibitory postsynaptic currents (mIPSCs) from striatal neurons. In line with their structural observations, these recordings confirmed the presence of synaptic glycinergic signaling in the ventral striatum, and an almost complete absence in the dorsal striatum. Together, these findings demonstrate that synaptic glycine receptors in the ventral striatum are present and functional, while an important contribution to dorsal striatal activity is less likely.

Lastly, the authors use existing mRNA and protein datasets to show that the expression level of GLRA1 across the brain positively correlates with the presence of synaptic GLRB.

The authors use lentiviral expression of mEos4b-tagged glycine receptor alpha1, alpha2, and beta subunits (GLRA1, GLRA1, GLRB) in cultured hippocampal neurons to investigate the ability of these subunits to cause the synaptic localization of glycine receptors. They suggest that the alpha1 subunit has a higher propensity to localize at the inhibitory postsynapse (labeled via gephyrin) than the alpha2 or beta subunits, and may therefore contribute to the distribution of functional synaptic glycine receptors across the brain.

Major comments:

- Are the key conclusions convincing?

The authors are generally precise in the formulation of their conclusions.

(1) They demonstrate a very low, but detectable, amount of a synaptically localized glycine receptor subunit in a transgenic (GlrB-mEos4b) mouse model. They demonstrate that the GLRB-mEos4b fusion protein is integrated into the iPSD as determined by gephyrin labelling. The authors do not perform functional tests of these receptors and do not state any such conclusions.

(2) The authors show that GLRB-mEos4b is clearly detectable in the striatum and integrated into gephyrin clusters at a significantly higher rate in the ventral striatum compared to the dorsal striatum, which is in line with previous studies.

(3) Adding to their quantification of GLRB-mEos4b in the striatum, the authors demonstrate the presence of glycinergic miniature IPSCs in the ventral striatum, and an almost complete absence of mIPSCs in the dorsal striatum. These currents support the observation that GLRB-mEos4b is more synaptically integrated in the ventral striatum compared to the dorsal striatum.

(4) The authors show that lentiviral expression of GLRA1-mEos4b leads to a visually higher number of GLR clusters in cultured hippocampal neurons, and a co-localization of some clusters with gephyrin. The authors claim that this supports the idea that GLRA1 may be an important driver of synaptic glycine receptor localization. However, no quantification or statistical analysis of the number of puncta or their colocalization with gephyrin is provided for any of the expressed subunits. Such a claim should be supported by quantification and statistics 

A thorough analysis and quantification of the data in Fig.5 has been carried out as requested by all the other reviewers (e.g. R1, point 3). The new data and results have been described in the revised manuscript (pp. 9-10, 13-14).

- Should the authors qualify some of their claims as preliminary or speculative, or remove them altogether?

One unaddressed caveat is the fact that a GLRB-mEos4b fusion protein may behave differently in terms of localization and synaptic integration than wild-type GLRB. While unlikely, it is possible that mEos4b interacts either with itself or synaptic proteins in a way that changes the fused GLRB subunit’s localization. Such an effect would be unlikely to affect synaptic function in a measurable way, but might be detected at a structural level by highly sensitive methods such as SMLM and STORM in regions with very low molecule numbers (such as the hippocampus). Since reliable antibodies against GLRB in brain tissue sections are not available, this would be difficult to test. Considering that no functional measures of the hippocampal detections exist, we would suggest that this possible caveat be mentioned for this particular experiment.

This question has also been raised before (R1, point 5). According to an earlier study the mEos4b-GlyRb knock-in does not cause any obvious phenotypes, with the possible exception of minor loss of glycine potency (Maynard et al. 2021 eLife). The fact that the synaptic levels in the spinal cord in heterozygous animals are precisely half of those of homozygous animals argues against differences in receptor expression, heteropentameric assembly, forward trafficking to the plasma membrane and integration into the synaptic membrane as confirmed using quantitative super-resolution CLEM (Maynard et al. 2021 eLife). Accordingly, we did not observe any behavioural deficits in these animals, making it a powerful experimental model. We have added this information in the revised manuscript (p. 4). 

In addition, without any quantification or statistical analysis, the author’s claims regarding the necessity of GLRA1 expression for the synaptic localization of glycine receptors in cultured hippocampal neurons should probably be described as preliminary (Fig. 5).

As mentioned before, we have substantially revised this part (R1, point 3). The quantification and analysis in the new Fig. 5 support our earlier interpretation.

- Would additional experiments be essential to support the claims of the paper? Request additional experiments only where necessary for the paper as it is, and do not ask authors to open new lines of experimentation.

The authors show that there is colocalization of gephyrin with the mEos4b-GlyRβ subunit using the Dual-colour SMLM. This is a powerful approach that allows for a claim to be made on the synaptic location of the glycine receptors. The images presented in Figure 1, together with the distance analysis in Figure 2, display the co-localization of the fluorophores. The co-localization images in all the selected regions, hippocampus and striatum, also show detections outside of the gephyrin clusters, which the authors refer to as extrasynaptic. These punctated small clusters seem to have the same size as the ones detected and assigned as part of the synapse. It would be informative if the authors analysed the distribution, density and size of these nonsynaptic clusters and presented the data in the manuscript and also compared it against the synaptic ones. Validating this extrasynaptic signal by staining for a dendritic marker, such as MAP-2 or maybe a somatic marker and assessing the co-localization with the non-synaptic clusters would also add even more credibility to them being extrasynaptic. 

The existence of extrasynaptic GlyRs is well attested in spinal cord neurons (e.g. Specht et al. 2013 Neuron; this study see Fig. S2). The fact that these appear as small clusters of detections in SMLM recordings results from the fact that a single fluorophore can be detected several times in consecutive image frames and because of blinking. Therefore, small clusters of detections likely represent single GlyRs (that can be counted), and not assemblies of several receptor complexes. Due to their diffusion in the neuronal membrane, they are seen as diffuse signals throughout the somatodendritic compartment in epifluorescence images (e.g. Fig. 5A). SMLM recordings of the same cells resolves this diffuse signal into discrete nanoclusters representing individual receptors (Fig. 5B). It is not clear what information co-localisation experiments with specific markers could provide, especially in hippocampal neurons, in which the copy numbers (and density) of GlyRs is next to zero.

In addition we would encourage the authors to quantify the clustering and co-localization of virally expressed GLRA1, GLRA2, and GLRB with gephyrin in order to support the associated claims (Fig. 5). Preferably, the density of GLR and gephyrin clusters (at least on the somatic surface, the proximal dendrites, or both) as well as their co-localization probability should be quantified if a causal claim about subunit-specific requirements for synaptic localization is to be made.

Quantification of the data have been carried out (new Fig.5C,D). The results have been described before (R1, point 3) and support our earlier interpretation of the data (pp. 13-14).

Lastly, even though it may be outside of the scope of such a study analysing other parts of the hippocampal area could provide additional important information. If one looks at the Allen Institute’s ISH of the beta subunit the strongest signal comes from the stratum oriens in the CA1 for example, suggesting that interneurons residing there would more likely have a higher expression of the glycine receptors. This could also be assessed by looking more carefully at the single cell transcriptomics, to see which cell types in the hippocampus show the highest mRNA levels. If the authors think that this is too much additional work, then perhaps a mention of this in the discussion would be good. 

We have added the requested information from the ISH database of the Allen Institute in the discussion as suggested by the reviewer (p. 12). However, in combination with the transcriptomic data (Fig. S1) our finding strongly suggest that the expression of synaptic GlyRs depends on the availability of alpha subunits rather than on the presence of the GlyRb transcript. This is obvious when one compares the mRNA levels in the hippocampus with those in the basal ganglia (striatum) and medulla. While the transcript concentrations of GlyRb are elevated in all three regions and essentially the same, our data show that the GlyRb copy numbers at synapses differ over more than 2 orders of magnitude (Fig. 1B, Table 1). 

- Are the suggested experiments realistic in terms of time and resources? It would help if you could add an estimated cost and time investment for substantial experiments.

Since the labeling and some imaging has been performed already, the requested experiment would be a matter of deploying a method of quantification. In principle, it should not require any additional wet-lab experiments, although it may require additional imaging of existing samples.

- Are the data and the methods presented in such a way that they can be reproduced?

Yes, for the most part.

- Are the experiments adequately replicated and statistical analysis adequate?

Yes

Minor comments:

- Specific experimental issues that are easily addressable.

N/A

- Are prior studies referenced appropriately?

Yes

- Are the text and figures clear and accurate?

Yes, although quantification in figure 5 is currently not present.

A quantification has been added (see R1, point 3).

- Do you have suggestions that would help the authors improve the presentation of their data and conclusions?

This paper presents a method that could be used to localize receptors and perhaps other proteins that are in low abundance or for which a detailed quantification is necessary. I would therefore suggest that Figure S4 is included into Figure 2 as the first panel, showcasing the demixing, followed by the results. 

We agree in principle with this suggestion. However, the revised Fig. S4 is more complex and we think that it would distract from the data shown in Fig. 2. Given that Fig. S4 is mostly methodological and not essential to understand the text, we have kept it in the supplement for the time being. We leave the final decision on this point to the editor.

Reviewer #4-2 (Significance): 

[This review was supplied later]

- Describe the nature and significance of the advance (e.g. conceptual, technical, clinical) for the field.

Using a novel and high resolution method, the authors have provided strong evidence for the presence of glycine receptors in the murine hippocampus and in the dorsal striatum. The number of receptors calculated is small compared to the numbers found in the ventral striatum. This is the first study to quantify receptor numbers in these region. In addition it also lays a roadmap for future studies addressing similar questions. 

- Place the work in the context of the existing literature (provide references, where appropriate).

This is done well by the authors in the curation of the literature. As stated above, the authors have filled a gap in the presence of glycine receptors in different brain regions, a subject of importance in understanding the role they play in brain activity and function. 

- State what audience might be interested in and influenced by the reported findings.

Neuroscientists working at the synaptic level, on inhibitory neurotransmission and on fundamental mechanisms of expression of genes at low levels and their relationship to the presence of the protein would be interested. Furthermore, researchers in neuroscience and cell biology may benefit from and be inspired by the approach used in this manuscript, to potentially apply it to address their own aims. 

We thank the reviewer for the positive assessment of the technical and biological implications of our work, as well as the interest of our findings to a wide readership of neuroscientists and cell biologists. 

- Define your field of expertise with a few keywords to help the authors contextualize your point of view. Indicate if there are any parts of the paper that you do not have sufficient expertise to evaluate.

Synaptic transmission, inhibitory cells and GABAergic synapses functionally and structurally, cortex and cortical circuits. No strong expertise in super-resolution imaging methods.

for - economic superorganism - human species qualifies

for - key insight - culture - adaption through culture, not genes - SRG comment - danger is progress traps! - This is a key insight. Once we have sophisticated culture, we don't rely on slow moving genetic change to adapt anymore. Instead we rely on culture! - This is the world of human progress, but is also a dangerous one because progress (cultural adaptation to environmental pressures) comes with progress traps.

for - quote - the basic elements of the superorganism are not cells and tissues but closely cooperating animals - E.O. Wilson & Holldobler

"Simulacrum"

These AI models are basically designed by Despot Dictators that choose their premises and training data RLHF style.

Also

"Nature is Fascist" --- Peter Joseph of Zeitgeist Movement

Bro someones you just need to touch grass. But like literally go touch grass.

What are these requirements?

Mirroring is also part of the Human Condition via Mirror Neurons

That response is in the training data right!?!?!

There are a LOT of premises in the training data, and let's also not forget to talk about RLHF

I believe this is why it takes different human languages the same amount of time to communicate the same amount of ideas

The maps can feel aligned when they aren't really aligned

Very interesting Dichotomy to point out, also applies to the Gender Identity stuff. I bet this Pain and Gender Identity stuff are related deeply some how

What is Human Experience sublime or something, the more you try and define it the more mysterious it becomes?!?!?!

Just so yall know, this "Pressence of God" stuff can be includes via a repeatable scientific experiment. God helmet - Wikipedia

Bro you need to talk about the Anima and Animus, the Behavioural Psychological Feminine and Masculine.

This reminds me of people that speak languages, their narrative self speaks a specific language but they can learn a new one and switch too it. I wonder if we can do that for new sensory systems

"Qualia"

There were a couple moments in here that I think are talking about other fairy tales and fables, but this is the only one where I can remember the specific story that it's talking about— and I wonder if every instruction is a direct reference to another story or if they're just so seamlessly interwoven that I can't tell which ones are exclusive to this one

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

This work provides an overview of the motor neuron landscape in the male reproductive system. Some work had been done to elucidate the circuits of ejaculation in the spine, as well as, the cord but this work fills a gap of knowledge at the level of the reproductive organs. Using complementary approaches the authors show that there are two types of motor neurons that are mutually exclusive: neurons that co-express octopamine and glutamate and neurons that co-express serotonin and glutamate. They also show evidence that both types of neurons express large dense core vesicles indicating that neuropeptides play a role in male fertility. This paper provides a thorough characterization of expression of the different glutamate, octopamine and serotonin receptors in the different organs and tissues of the male reproductive system. The differential expression in different tissues and organs allows building initial theories on the control of emission and expulsion. Additionally, the authors characterize the expression of synaptic proteins and the neuromuscular junction sites. On a mechanistic level, the authors show that neither octopamine/glutamate neuron transmission nor glutamate transmission in serotonin/glutamate neurons are required for male fertility. This final result is quite surprising and opens up many questions on how ejaculation is coordinated.

Strengths:

This work fills an important gap on characterization of innervation of the male reproductive system by providing an extensive characterization of the motor neurons and the potential receptors of motor neuron release.The authors show convincing evidence of glutamate/monoamine co-release and of mutual exclusivity of serotonin/glutamate and octopamine/glutamate neurons.

Weaknesses:

The experiment looking at peristaltic waves in the male organs is missing labeling of the different regions and quantification of the observed waves.

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

Summary: 

This very thorough anatomical study addresses the innervation of the Drosophila male reproductive tract. Two distinct glutamatergic neuron types were classified: serotonergic (SGNs) and octopaminergic (OGNs). By expansion microscopy, it was established that glutamate and serotonin /octopamine are co-released. The expression of different receptors for 5-HT and OA in muscles and epithelial cells of the innervation target organs was characterized. The pattern of neurotransmitter receptor expression in the target organs suggests that seminal fluid and sperm transport and emission are subjected to complex regulation. While silencing of abdominal SGNs leads to male infertility and prevents sperm from entering the ejaculatory duct, silencing of OGNs does not render males infertile. 

Strengths: 

The studied neurons were analysed with different transgenes and methods, as well as antibodies against neurotransmitter synthesis enzymes, building a consistent picture of their neurotransmitter identity. The careful anatomical description of innervation patterns together with receptor expression patterns of the target organs provides a solid basis for advancing the understanding of how seminal fluid and sperm transport and emission are subjected to complex regulation. The functional data showing that SGNs are required for male fertility and for the release of sperm from the seminal vesicle into the ejaculatory duct is convincing. 

Weaknesses: 

The functional analysis of the characterized neurons is not as comprehensive as the anatomical description, and phenotypic characterization was limited to simple fertility assays. It is understandable that a full functional dissection is beyond the scope of the present work. The paper contains experiments showing neuron-independent peristaltic waves in the reproductive tract muscles, which are thematically not very well integrated into the paper. Although very interesting, one wonders if these experiments would not fit better into a future work that also explores these peristaltic waves and their interrelation with neuromodulation mechanistically. 

Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

Summary: 

Cheverra et al. present a comprehensive anatomical and functional analysis of the motor neurons innervating the male reproductive tract in Drosophila melanogaster, addressing a gap in our understanding of the peripheral circuits underlying ejaculation and male fertility. They identify two classes of multi-transmitter motor neurons-OGNs (octopamine/glutamate) and SGNs (serotonin/glutamate)-with distinct innervation patterns across reproductive organs. The authors further characterize the differential expression of glutamate, octopamine, and serotonin receptors in both epithelial and muscular tissues of these organs. Behavioral assays reveal that SGNs are essential for male fertility, whereas OGNs and glutamatergic transmission are dispensable. This work provides a high-resolution map linking neuromodulatory identity to organ-specific motor control, offering a valuable framework to explore the neural basis of male reproductive function. 

Strengths: 

Through the use of an extensive set of GAL4 drivers and antibodies, this work successfully and precisely defines the neurons that innervate the male reproductive tract, identifying the specific organs they target and the nature of the neurotransmitters they release. It also characterizes the expression patterns and localization of the corresponding neurotransmitter receptors across different tissues. The authors describe two distinct groups of dual-identity neurons innervating the male reproductive tract: OGNs, which co-express octopamine and glutamate, and SGNs, which co-express serotonin and glutamate. They further demonstrate that the various organs within the male reproductive system differentially express receptors for these neurotransmitters. Based on these findings, the authors propose that a single neuron capable of co-releasing a fast-acting neurotransmitter alongside a slower-acting one may more effectively synchronize and stagger events that require precise timing. This, together with the differential expression of ionotropic glutamate receptors and metabotropic aminergic receptors in postsynaptic muscle tissue, adds an additional layer of complexity to the coordinated regulation of fluid secretion, organ contractility, and directional sperm movement-all contributing to the optimization of male fertility. 

Weaknesses: 

The main weakness of the manuscript is the lack of detail in the presentation of the results. Specifically, all microscopy image figures are missing information about the number of samples (N), and in the case of colocalization experiments, quantitative analyses are not provided. Additionally, in the first behavioral section, it would be beneficial to complement the data table with figures similar to those presented later in the manuscript for consistency and clarity. 

Wider context: 

This study delivers the first detailed anatomical map connecting multi-transmitter motor neurons with specific male reproductive structures. It highlights a previously unrecognized functional specialization between serotonergic and octopaminergic pathways and lays the groundwork for exploring fundamental neural mechanisms that regulate ejaculation and fertility in males. The principles uncovered here may help explain how males of Drosophila and other organisms adjust reproductive behaviors in response to environmental changes. Furthermore, by shedding light on how multi-transmitter systems operate in reproductive control, this model could provide insights into therapeutic targets for conditions such as male infertility and prostate cancer, where similar neuronal populations are involved in humans. Ultimately, this genetically accessible system serves as a powerful tool for uncovering how multi-transmitter neurons orchestrate coordinated physiological actions necessary for the functioning of complex organs. 

Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

Summary: 

This work provides an overview of the motor neuron landscape in the male reproductive system. Some work had been done to elucidate the circuits of ejaculation in the spine, as well as the cord, but this work fills a gap in knowledge at the level of the reproductive organs. Using complementary approaches, the authors show that there are two types of motor neurons that are mutually exclusive: neurons that co-express octopamine and glutamate and neurons that co-express serotonin and glutamate. They also show evidence that both types of neurons express large dense core vesicles, indicating that neuropeptides play a role in male fertility. This paper provides a thorough characterization of the expression of the different glutamate, octopamine, and serotonin receptors in the different organs and tissues of the male reproductive system. The differential expression in different tissues and organs allows building initial theories on the control of emission and expulsion. Additionally, the authors characterize the expression of synaptic proteins and the neuromuscular junction sites. On a mechanistic level, the authors show that neither octopamine/glutamate neuron transmission nor glutamate transmission in serotonin/glutamate neurons is required for male fertility. This final result is quite surprising and opens up many questions on how ejaculation is coordinated. 

Strengths: 

This work fills an important gap in the characterization of innervation of the male reproductive system by providing an extensive characterization of the motor neurons and the potential receptors of motor neuron release. The authors show convincing evidence of glutamate/monoamine co-release and of mutual exclusivity of serotonin/glutamate and octopamine/glutamate neurons. 

Weaknesses: 

(1) Often, it is mentioned that the expression is higher or lower or regional without quantification or an indication of the number of samples analysed. 

(2) The experiment aimed at tracking sperm in the male reproductive system is difficult to interpret when it is not assessed whether ejaculation has occurred. 

(3) The experiment looking at peristaltic waves in the male organs is missing labeling of the different regions and quantification of the observed waves. 

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

(1) While the peripheral innervations are very carefully described, it is not clear to which SGNs and OGNs (i.e., cell bodies in the central nervous system) these innervations belong. Are SV, AG, and ED innervated by branches of one neuron or by separate neurons? Multi-color flip-out experiments could provide an answer to this. 

We agree this is important and are planning these experiments for follow-up study.

(2) In contrast, for the analysis of the VT19028 split line (Figure 9), only vnc and cell body images are shown. How do the arborisations of these split combinations look in the periphery? Are the same reproductive organs innervated as shown in Figure 2?

Figure 9S3 was inadvertently omitted from the initial submission.  That figure is now included and shows that the VT019028 split broadly innervates the SV, AG, and ED.

(3) In the discussion, I think it would be helpful to offer some potential explanations for the role of octopaminergic and glutamatergic signaling. If not required for basic fertility, they probably have some other role.

Thank you, we have included speculation in the Discussion section "Potential for adaptation to environment".

(4) Line 543: Figure 8S4 E, (not 8E). 

Correction made.

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

(1) Line 213-217 

Comment:

The use of "significantly less expression" may be misleading, as no quantification or statistical analysis is provided to support this comparison. 

Suggestion:

Consider using a more neutral term, such as "markedly less" or "noticeably less," unless quantitative data and statistical analysis are included to substantiate the claim.

Good recommendation.This suggestion has been incorporated.

(2) Line 264-267 

Comment:

The observation regarding the distinct morphology of SGNs and OGNs is interesting and could strengthen the argument regarding functional differences. 

Suggestion: 

Consider including a quantification of morphological complexity (e.g., branching) to support the claim. A method such as Sholl analysis (Sholl, 1953), as adapted in Fernández et al., 2008, could be applied. 

This is a good suggestion, and we will consider it as part of a follow-up study.

(3) Line 269-271 

Comment:

The anatomical context of the observation is not explicitly stated. 

Suggestion:

Add "in the ED" for clarity: "With the TRH-GAL4 experiment in the ED, vGlut-40XMYC (Figure 5S1, A and E) and 6XV5-vMAT (Figure 5S1, B and F) were both present with a highly overlapping distribution (Figure 5S1, I)." 

Suggestion has been incorporated.

(4) Line 275-276 

Comment:

The claim about the reduced ability to distinguish SGNs and OGNs in the ED would benefit from quantitative support. 

Suggestion:

Include a morphological comparison or quantification between SGNs and OGNs in the ED and SV to reinforce this point.

Certain information on morphological comparison can be inferred within the images themselves, and we will include quantitation in a follow-up study.

(5) Line 277-279 

Comment:

As with line 269, the anatomical site could be specified more clearly. 

Suggestion: 

Rephrase as: "With the Tdc2-GAL4 experiment in the ED, vGlut-40XMYC (Figure 5S1, M and Q) and 6XV5-vMAT (Figure 5S1, N and R) were both observed in a highly overlapping distribution (Figure 5S1, U)." 

Suggestion has been incorporated.

(6) Line 348-350 

Comment:

The phrase "significantly higher density" implies a statistical comparison that is not shown. 

Suggestion:

If no quantification is provided, replace with a qualitative term such as "visibly higher" or "notably more dense." Alternatively, add a quantitative analysis with statistical testing to justify the use of "significantly." 

Suggestion has been incorporated.

(7) Lines 415-458 (Section comment) 

Comment:

There appears to be differential localization of neurotransmitter receptor expression (glutamate in muscle vs. 5-HT in epithelium or neurons), which could have functional implications. 

Suggestion:

Expand this section to briefly discuss the differential localization patterns of these receptors and potential implications for signal transduction in male reproductive tissues. 

(8) Lines 638-682 (Section comment) 

Comment:

The table summarizing fertility phenotypes would be more informative with additional detail on experimental outcomes. 

Suggestion:

Add a column showing the number of fertile males over the total tested (e.g., "n fertile / n total"). Also, clarify whether the fertility assays are identical to those reported in Figure 10S2, and whether similar analyses were conducted for females. Consider including a figure summarizing fertility results for all genotypes listed in the table, similar to Figure 10S2. 

The fertility tests reported in Table 1 were separate from those reported in Figure 10S2.  For these tests, the results were clear-cut with 100% of males and females reported as infertile exhibiting the infertile phenotype.  For the males and females reported as fertile, it was also clear-cut with nearly 100% showing fertility at a high level.  In subsequent figures we attempted to assess degrees of fertility.

(9) Line 724-727 

Comment:

There seems to be a mistake in the identification of the driver lines used to silence OA neurons. Also, figure references might be incorrect. 

Suggestion:

The OA neuron driver line should be corrected to "Tdc2-GAL4-DBD ∩ AbdB-AD" instead of TRH-GAL4. Additionally, the figure references should be verified; specifically, the letter "B" (in "Figure 10B, D" and "10B, E") appears to be unnecessary or misplaced.

Thanks for catching this, the corrections have been made.

(10) Line 872-877 

Comment:

The discussion on the co-release of fast-acting glutamate and slower aminergic neurotransmitters is interesting and well-articulated. However, it remains somewhat disconnected from the behavioral findings. 

Suggestion:

Consider linking this proposed mechanism to the results observed in the mating duration assays. For instance, the sequential action of neurotransmitters described here could potentially underlie the prolonged mating observed when specific neuromodulators are active, helping to functionally integrate molecular and behavioral data. 

(11) Line 926-928 

Comment:

The interpretation of 5-HT7 receptor expression in the sphincter is compelling, suggesting a role in regulating its function. However, this anatomical observation could be further contextualized with the functional data. 

Suggestion:

It may strengthen the interpretation to explicitly connect this finding with the fertility assays, where SGNs - presumably acting via serotonergic signaling - are shown to be necessary for male fertility. This would support a functional role for 5-HT7 in reproductive success via sphincter regulation.

This has been added. 

(12) Figure 1 

Comment:

The figure legend is generally clear, but could benefit from more consistency and precision in the color-coded labeling. Additionally, the naming of some structures could be more explicit. 

Suggestion: 

Revise the figure and the legend as follows:

Figure 1. The Drosophila male reproductive system. A) Schematic diagram showing paired testes (colour), SVs (green), AGs (purple), Sph (red), ED (gray), and EB (colour). B) Actual male reproductive system. Te - testes, SV - seminal vesicle, AG - accessory gland, Sph - singular sphincter, ED - ejaculatory duct, EB - ejaculatory bulb. Scale bar: 200 µm.

This suggestion has been incorporated.

(13) Figure 3S2 

Comment:

There appears to be a typographical error in the description of the genotypes, which may lead to confusion. 

Suggestion:

Correct the legend to reflect the appropriate genotypes:

Figure 3S2. Expression of vGlut-LexA and Tdc2-GAL4 in the Drosophila male reproductive system. A, D, G, J, M, P) vGlut-LexA, LexAop-6XmCherry; B, E, H, K, N, Q) Tdc2-GAL4, UAS-6XGFP; C, F, I, L, O, R) Overlay. Scale bars: O - 50 µm; R - 10 µm.

The corrections have been made.

(14) Figure 3S3

Comment:

The genotypes for panels D and E appear to be incomplete; the DBD component of the split-GAL4 drivers is missing. 

Suggestion:

Update the figure legend to: 

Figure 3S3. Fruitless and Doublesex expression in the Drosophila male reproductive system. A) fru-GAL4, UAS-6XGFP; B) vGlut-LexA, LexAop-6XmCherry; C) Overlay; D) Tdc2-AD ∩ dsx-GAL4-DBD; E) TRH-AD ∩ dsx-GAL4-DBD. Scale bar: 200 µm.

The corrections have been made.

(15) Figure 4S4 

Comment: 

There is a repeated segment in the figure legend, which makes it unclear and redundant. 

Suggestion:

Edit the legend to remove the duplicated lines: 

Figure 4S4. Expression of vGlut, TβH-GFP, and 5-HT at the junction of the SV and AGs with the ED of the Drosophila male reproductive system. A) vGlut-40XV5; B) TβH-GFP; C) 5-HT; D) vGlut-40XV5, TβH-GFP overlay; E) vGlut-40XV5, 5-HT overlay; F) TβH-GFP, 5-HT overlay. Scale bar: 50 µm.

The correction has been made.

(16) Figure 6S5 

Comment:

Within this figure, the orientation and/or scale of the tissue varies noticeably between individual panels, making it difficult to directly compare the different experimental conditions. 

Suggestion:

For improved clarity and interpretability, consider standardizing the orientation and size of the tissue shown across all panels within the figure. Consistent presentation will facilitate direct comparisons between treatments or genotypes. 

There is often variation in the size of the male reproductive organs. They were all acquired at the same magnification. The only point of this figure is there is no vGAT or vAChT at these NMJs and the result is unambiguously negative. 

(17) Figure 10 

Comment:

Panel A appears redundant, as it shows the same information as the other panels but without indicating statistical significance. 

Suggestion:

Consider removing panel A and keeping only the remaining four graphs, which include relevant statistical comparisons and clearly show significant differences.

We realize there is some redundancy of panel A with the other panels, but we feel there is value in having all the genotypes in a single panel for comparison.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

Here are some suggestions to improve the manuscript: 

(1) Prot B GFP experiment: the authors should explain better the time chosen to look at the sperm content of the male reproductive system. At 10 minutes, it is expected that the male has already ejaculated, and therefore, a failure to ejaculate would result in more sperm in the reproductive system, not less. Since we are not certain when the male ejaculates, it would be important to do the analysis at different time points.

In the Prot-GFP experiments, the 10-minute time point was chosen because we nearly always observe sperm in the ejaculatory duct of control males.  In the experimental males, we never observed sperm in the ejaculatory duct at this time point.  Also, no Prot-GFP sperm were observed in the reproductive tract of females mated to experimental males even when mating was allowed to go to completion, while abundant sperm were found in females mated to Prot-GFP controls.  Figure 10S1 has been updated to include Images of these female reproductive systems.  The results showing the absence of Prot-GFP sperm in the female reproductive tract mated to experimental males indicates sperm transfer in these males isn't occurring earlier during the copulation process than in control males and that we didn't miss it by only examining at the ejaculatory duct.

(2) Discuss what may be the role of the octopamine/glutamate neurons and glutamate transmission in serotonin/glutamate neurons in the male reproductive system, given that they are not required for fertility (at least under the context in which it was tested). It is quite a striking result that deserves some attention. 

We agree it is a surprising result and have included speculation on the role of glutamate and octopamine in male reproduction in the Discussion section "Potential for adaptation to environment".

(3) Very important: 

(a) Figure 3 is present in the Word document but not the PDF. 

(b) Figure 9S3 is not present 

(c) In Figure 5 X), the legend does not correspond to the panel.

All of these corrections have been made. 

(4) Other suggestions:

(a) A summary schematic (or several) of the findings would make it an easier read.

(b) Explain why the ejaculatory bulb was left out of the analysis.

(c) Explain in the main text some of the tools, such as, BONT-C and the conditional vGlut mutation.

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

In this manuscript, Arnould et. al. develop an unbiased, affinity-guided reagent to label P2X7 receptor and use super-resolution imaging to monitor P2X7 redistribution in response to inflammatory signaling.

Strengths:

I think the X7-uP probe that they developed is very useful for visualizing localization of P2X7 receptor. They convincingly show that under inflammatory conditions, there is a reorganization of P2X7 localization into receptor clusters. Moreover, I think they have shown a very clever way to specifically label any receptor of interest. This has broad appeal.

I think the authors have done a very nice job addressing my original concerns. Here are those original concerns and my new comments related to how the authors address them.

(1) While the authors state that chemical modification of AZ10606120 to produce the X7-UP reagent has "minimal impact" on the inhibition of P2X7, we can see from Figure 2A and 2B that it does not antagonize P2X7 as effectively as the original antagonist. For the sake of completeness and quantitation, I think it would be great if the authors could determine the IC50 for X7-uP and compare it to the IC50 of AZ10606120.

The authors now show the relative inhibition of X7-uP compared to AZ10606120 at different concentrations. This provides a nice comparison to give the reader an idea of how effectively X7-uP inhibits P2X7 receptor. This is great.

(2) Do the authors know whether modification of the lysines with biotin affects the receptor's affinity for ATP (or ability to be activated by ATP)? What about P2X7 that has been modified with biotin and then labeled with Alexa 647? For the sake of completeness and quantitation, I think it would be great if the authors could determine the EC50 of biotinylated P2X7 for ATP as well as biotinylated and then Alexa 647 labeled P2X7 for ATP and compare these values to the affinity of unmodified WT P2X7 for ATP.

I agree with the authors that assessing the functional integrity of P2X7 following biotinylation and fluorophore labeling is outside the scope of this paper but would be important for studies involving dynamic or post-labeling functional analyses such as live trafficking.

(3) It is a little misleading to color the fluorescence signal from mScarlet green (for example, in Figure 3 and Figure 4). The fluorescence is not at the same wavelength as GFP. In fact, the wavelength (570 nm - 610 nm) for emission is closer to orange/red than to green. I think this color should be changed to differentiate the signal of mScarlet from the GFP signal used for each of the other P2X receptor subtypes.

The authors have now changed the mScarlet color to orange, which solves my concern.

(4) It is my understanding that P2X6 does not form homotrimers. Thus, I was a little surprised to see that the density and distribution of P2X6-GFP in Figure 3 looks very similar to the density and distribution of the other P2X subtypes. Do the authors have an explanation for this? Are they looking at P2X6 protomers inserted into the plasma membrane? Does the cell line have endogenous P2X receptor subtypes? Is Figure 3 showing heterotrimers with P2X6 receptor? A little explanation might be helpful.

The authors address this point very well and include nice data to show that P2X6 does not insert into the plasma membrane as a homotrimer.

(5) It is easy to overlook the fact that the antagonist leaves the binding pocket once the biotin has been attached to the lysines. It might be helpful if the authors made this a little more apparent in Figure 1 or in the text describing the NASA chemistry reaction.

The authors have modified Figure 1 to make it easier to understand the NASA chemistry reaction.

I congratulate the authors on an outstanding paper!

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

Public Reviews:

Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

Summary: 

In this paper, the authors developed a chemical labeling reagent for P2X7 receptors, called X7-uP. This labeling reagent selectively labels endogenous P2X7 receptors with biotin based on ligand-directed NASA chemistry (Ref. 41). After labeling the endogenous P2X7 receptor with biotin, the receptor can be fluorescently labeled with streptavidin-AlexaFluor647. The authors carefully examined the binding properties and labeling selectivity of X7-uP to P2X7, characterized the labeling site of P2X7 receptors, and demonstrated fluorescence imaging of P2X7 receptors. The data obtained by SDS-PAGE, Western blot, and fluorescence microscopy clearly show that X7-uP labels the P2X7 receptor. Finally, the authors fluorescently labeled the endogenous P2X7 in BV2 cells, which are a murine microglia model, and used dSTORM to reveal a nanoscale P2X7 redistribution mechanism under inflammatory conditions at high resolution. 

Strengths: 

X7-uP selectively labels endogenous P2X7 receptors with biotin. Streptavidin-AlexaFluor647 binds to the biotin labeled to the P2X7 receptor, allowing visualization of endogenous P2X7 receptors. 

We thank the reviewer for their positive comment.

Weaknesses: 

Weaknesses & Comments 

(1) The P2X7 receptor exists in a trimeric form. If it is not a monomer under the conditions of the pull-down assay in Figure 2C, the quantitative values may not be accurate. 

We thank the reviewer for this comment. As shown in Figure 2C, the band observed on the denaturing SDS-PAGE corresponds to the monomeric form of the P2X7 receptor. While we cannot exclude the presence of non-monomeric species under native conditions, no such higher-order forms are visible in the gel. This observation supports the conclusion that the quantitative values presented are based on the monomeric form and are therefore reliable.

(2) In Figure 3, GFP fluorescence was observed in the cell. Are all types of P2X receptors really expressed on the cell surface ? 

We thank the reviewer for this excellent comment, which was also raised by reviewer 2. To address this concern, we performed a commercial cell-surface protein biotinylation assay to assess whether GFP-tagged P2X receptors reach the plasma membrane. As expected, all P2X subtypes except P2X6 were detected at the cell surface in HEK293T cells, thereby validating our confocal fluorescence microscopy assay. These new data are now included in Figure 3 — figure supplement 1.

(3) The reviewer was not convinced of the advantages of the approach taken in this paper, because the endogenous receptor labeling in this study could also be done using conventional antibody-based labeling methods. 

We thank the reviewer for raising this important point and would like to highlight several advantages of our approach compared to conventional antibody-based labeling.

First, commercially available P2X7 antibodies often suffer from poor specificity and are generally not suitable for reliably detecting endogenous P2X7 receptors, as documented in previous studies (e.g., PMID: 16564580 and PMID: 15254086). While recent advances have been made using nanobodies with improved specificity for P2X7 (e.g., PMID: 30074479 and PMID: 38953020), our strategy is distinct and complementary to nanobody-based approaches.

Second, antibodies rely on non-covalent interactions with the receptor, which can result in dissociation over time. In contrast, our X7-uP probe covalently biotinylates lysine residues on the P2X7 receptor through stable amide bond formation. This covalent labeling ensures that the biotin moiety remains permanently attached, an advantage not afforded by reversible binding strategies.

Third, by selectively biotinylating P2X7 receptors, our method provides a versatile platform for the chemical attachment of a wide range of probes or functional moieties. Although we did not demonstrate this application in the current study, we believe this modularity represents an additional advantage of our approach.

We have now revised the discussion to highlight these key advantages, allowing the reader to form their own opinion. We hope this addresses the reviewer’s concerns and clarifies the benefits of our approach.

(4) Although P2X7 was successfully labeled in this paper, it is not new as a chemistry. There is a need for more attractive functional evaluation such as live trafficking analysis of endogenous P2X7. 

We agree with the reviewer that the underlying chemistry is not novel per se. However, to our knowledge, it has not previously been applied to the P2X7 receptor, and thus constitutes a novel application with specific relevance for studying native P2X7 biology.

We also appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion regarding live trafficking analysis of endogenous P2X7. While this is indeed a valuable and interesting direction, we believe it lies beyond the scope of the present study, as it would first require demonstrating that the labeling itself does not affect P2X7 function (see below). This important step would necessitate additional experiments, which we consider more appropriate for a follow-up investigation.

(5) The reviewer has concerns that the use of the large-size streptavidin to label the P2X7 receptor may perturbate the dynamics of the receptor. 

We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. Although we did not directly measure receptor dynamics, it is indeed possible that tetrameric streptavidin (tStrept-A 647) could promote P2X7 clustering by cross-linking nearby receptors due to its tetravalency (see also point 7 raised by the reviewer). To address this concern, we performed additional dSTORM experiments using a monomeric form of streptavidin-Alexa 647 (mSA) (see PMID: 26979420). Owing to its reduced size and lack of tetravalency, mSA has been shown to minimize artificial crosslinking of synaptic receptors (PMID: 26979420). A drawback of using mSA, however, is that the monomeric form carries only two fluorophores (estimated degree of labeling, DOL ≈ 2, PMID: 26979420), whereas the tetrameric form, according to the manufacturer’s certificate of analysis (Invitrogen S21374), has an average DOL of three fluorophores per monomer, resulting in a total of ~12 fluorophores per streptavidin.

We tested three conditions with mSA incubation: (i) control BV2 cells (without X7-uP), (ii) untreated X7-uP-labeled BV2 cells, and (iii) X7-uP-labeled BV2 cells treated with LPS and ATP (using the same concentrations and incubation times described in the manuscript). As shown in Author response image 1, only LPS+ATP treatment induced a clear increase in the mean cluster density compared to quiescent (untreated) BV2 cells. This effect closely matches the results obtained with tStrept-A 647, supporting the conclusion the tetrameric streptavidin does not artificially promote P2X7 clustering. It is also possible that the cellular environment of BV2 microglia differs from the confined architecture of synapses, which may further explain why cross-linking effects are less pronounced in our system.

As expected, the overall fluorescence signal with mSA was about tenfold lower than with tStrept-A 647, consistent with the expected fluorophore stoichiometry. This lower signal may explain why the values for the untreated condition appeared slightly higher than for the control, although the difference was not statistically significant (P = 0.1455).

We hope these additional experiments adequately address the reviewer’s concerns.

Author response image 1.

BV2 labeling with monomeric streptavidin–Alexa 647 (mSA).(A) Bright-field and dSTORM images of BV2 cells labeled with mSA in the presence (untreated and LPS+ATP) or absence (control) of 1 µM X7-uP. Treatment: LPS (1 µg/mL for 24 hours) and ATP (1 mM for 30 minutes). Scale bars, 10 µm. Insets: Magnified dSTORM images. Scale bars, 1 µm.(B) Quantification of the number of localizations (n = 2 independent experiments). Bars represent mean ± s.e.m. One-way ANOVA with Tukey’s multiple comparisons (P values are indicated above the graph).

(6) It is better to directly label Alexa647 to the P2X7 receptor to avoid functional perturbation of P2X7. 

Directly labeling of Alexa647 to the P2X7 receptor would require the design and synthesis of a novel probe, which is currently not available. Implementing such a strategy would involve substantial new experimental work that lies beyond the scope of the present study.

(7) In all imaging experiments, the addition of streptavidin, which acts as a cross-linking agent, may induce P2X7 receptor clustering. This concern would be dispelled if the receptors were labeled with a fluorescent dye instead of biotin and observed. 

We refer the reviewer to our response in point 5, where we addressed this concern by comparing tetrameric and monomeric streptavidin conjugates. As noted above (see also point 6), directly labeling the receptor with a fluorescent dye would require the development of a new probe, which is outside the scope of the present study.

(8) There are several mentions of microglia in this paper, even though they are not used. This can lead to misunderstanding for the reader. The author conducted functional analysis of the P2X7 receptor in BV-2 cells, which are a model cell line but not microglia themselves. The text should be reviewed again and corrected to remove the misleading parts that could lead to misunderstanding. e.g. P8. lines 361-364

First, it combines N-cyanomethyl NASA chemistry with the high-affinity AZ10606120 ligand, enabling rapid labeling in microglia (within 10 min)

P8. lines 372-373 

Our results not only confirm P2X7 expression in microglia, as previously reported (6, 26-33), but also reveal its nanoscale localization at the cell surface using dSTORM. 

We agree with the reviewer’s comment. We have now modified the text, including the title.

Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

Summary: 

In this manuscript, Arnould et. al. develop an unbiased, affinity-guided reagent to label P2X7 receptor and use super-resolution imaging to monitor P2X7 redistribution in response to inflammatory signaling. 

Strengths: 

I think the X7-uP probe that they developed is very useful for visualizing localization of P2X7 receptor. They convincingly show that under inflammatory conditions, there is a reorganization of P2X7 localization into receptor clusters. Moreover, I think they have shown a very clever way to specifically label any receptor of interest. This has broad appeal 

We thank the reviewer for their positive comment.

Weaknesses: 

Overall, the manuscript is novel and interesting. However, I do have some suggestions for improvement. 

(1) While the authors state that chemical modification of AZ10606120 to produce the X7-UP reagent has "minimal impact" on the inhibition of P2X7, we can see from Figure 2A and 2B that it does not antagonize P2X7 as effectively as the original antagonist. For the sake of completeness and quantitation, I think it would be great if the authors could determine the IC50 for X7-uP and compare it to the IC50 of AZ10606120. 

We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. Unfortunately, due to the limited availability of X7-uP, we were not able to establish a complete concentration–response curve to determine its IC₅₀, which would require testing at concentrations >1 µM. Nevertheless, to estimate the effect of the modification, we assessed current inhibition at 300 µM X7-uP and compared it with the reported IC₅₀ of AZ10606120 (10 nM). Under these conditions, both compounds produced a similar level of inhibition, indicating that while the chemical modification reduces potency relative to AZ10606120, X7-uP still functions as an effective probe for P2X7. We have now included these data in Figure 2 and revised the text accordingly.

(2) Do the authors know whether modification of the lysines with biotin affects the receptor's affinity for ATP (or ability to be activated by ATP)? What about P2X7 that has been modified with biotin and then labeled with Alexa 647? For the sake of completeness and quantitation, I think it would be great if the authors could determine the EC50 of biotinylated P2X7 for ATP as well as biotinylated and then Alexa 647 labeled P2X7 for ATP and compare these values to the affinity of unmodified WT P2X7 for ATP.

We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. At present, we have not determined whether modification of lysine residues with biotin, or subsequent labeling with Alexa647, affects the ATP sensitivity or functional properties of P2X7. However, we believe this does not impact the conclusions of the current study, as all functional assays were conducted prior to X7-uP labeling. The labeling is used here as a terminal "snapshot" to visualize the endogenous receptor without interfering with the functional characterization.

We fully agree that assessing the functional integrity of P2X7 following biotinylation and fluorophore labeling—such as by determining the EC₅₀ for ATP—would be essential for studies involving dynamic or post-labeling functional analyses, such as live trafficking. However, as noted earlier in our response to Reviewer 1 (point 4), these experiments lie beyond the scope of the current study.

(3) It is a little misleading to color the fluorescence signal from mScarlet green (for example, in Figure 3 and Figure 4). The fluorescence is not at the same wavelength as GFP. In fact, the wavelength (570 nm - 610 nm) for emission is closer to orange/red than to green. I think this color should be changed to differentiate the signal of mScarlet from the GFP signal used for each of the other P2X receptor subtypes. 

As suggested, we changed the mScarlet color to orange for all relevant figures.

(4) It is my understanding that P2X6 does not form homotrimers. Thus, I was a little surprised to see that the density and distribution of P2X6-GFP in Figure 3 looks very similar to the density and distribution of the other P2X subtypes. Do the authors have an explanation for this? Are they looking at P2X6 protomers inserted into the plasma membrane? Does the cell line have endogenous P2X receptor subtypes? Is Figure 3 showing heterotrimers with P2X6 receptor? A little explanation might be helpful.

We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. Indeed, it is well established that P2X6 does not form functional channels, which supports the conclusion that it does not form homotrimeric complexes. Although previous studies have shown that P2X6–GFP expression is generally lower, more diffuse, and not efficiently targeted to the cell surface compared with other P2X subtypes (see PMID: 12077178), the similar fluorescence distribution and density observed in our Figure 3 do not imply that P2X6 forms homotrimers.

We did not directly assess the presence of endogenous P2X6 in our HEK293T cells; however, according to the Human Protein Atlas, there is no detectable P2X6 RNA expression in HEK293 cells (nTPM = 0), indicating that endogenous P2X6 is not expressed in this cell line. To further investigate surface expression (see also point 2 of reviewer 1), we performed a commercial cell-surface protein biotinylation assay to assess whether GFP-tagged P2X6 reaches the plasma membrane. As expected, P2X6 was not detected at the cell surface in HEK293T cells, whereas GFP-tagged P2X1 to P2X5 were readily detected. These results further support the conclusion that P2X6 does not insert into the plasma membrane as a homotrimer, thereby validating our confocal fluorescence microscopy assay. These new data are now included in Figure 3 — figure supplement 1.

(5) It is easy to overlook the fact that the antagonist leaves the binding pocket once the biotin has been attached to the lysines. It might be helpful if the authors made this a little more apparent in Figure 1 or in the text describing the NASA chemistry reaction.

We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. To address this, we have modified Figure 1A and updated the legend.

Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

Summary: 

This manuscript describes the development of a covalent labeling probe (X7-uP) that selectively targets and tags native P2X7 receptors at the plasma membrane of BV2 microglial cells. Using super-resolution imaging (dSTORM), the authors demonstrate that P2X7 receptors form nanoscale clusters upon microglial activation by lipopolysaccharide (LPS) and ATP, correlating with synergistic IL-1β release. These findings advance understanding of P2X7 reorganization during inflammation and provide a generalizable labeling strategy for monitoring endogenous P2X7 in immune cells. 

Strengths: 

(1) The authors designed X7-uP by coupling a high-affinity, P2X7-specific antagonist (AZ10606120) with N-cyanomethyl NASA chemistry to achieve site-directed biotinylation. This approach offers high specificity, minimal off-target reactivity, and a straightforward pull-down/imaging readout. 

(2) The results connect P2X7's nanoscale clustering directly with IL-1β secretion in microglia, reinforcing the role of P2X7 in inflammation. By localizing endogenous P2X7 at single-molecule resolution, the authors reveal how LPS priming and ATP stimulation synergistically reorganize the receptor. 

(3) The authors systematically validate their method in recombinant systems (HEK293 cells) and in BV2 cells, showing selective inhibition, mutational confirmation of the binding site, and Western blot pulldown experiments.

We thank the reviewer for their positive comment.

Weaknesses: 

(1) While the data strongly indicate that P2X7 clustering contributes to IL-1β release, the manuscript would benefit from additional experiments (if feasible) or discussion on how receptor clustering interfaces with downstream inflammasome assembly. Clarification of whether the P2X7 clusters physically colocalize with known inflammasome proteins would solidify the mechanism. 

We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. Determining the physical colocalization of P2X7 clusters with known inflammasome components would provide important insight into the molecular partners involved in inflammasome activation. However, we believe that such an investigation would constitute a substantial study on its own and therefore lies beyond the scope of the present work.

Nevertheless, in response to the reviewer’s suggestion, we have added a short paragraph at the end of the Discussion section addressing potential mechanisms by which P2X7 clustering may contribute to downstream inflammasome activation. We also revised the text to tone down the hypothesis of physical colocalization.

(2) The authors might expand on the scope of X7-uP in other native cells that endogenously express P2X7 (e.g., macrophages, dendritic cells). Although they mention the possibility, demonstrating the probe's applicability in at least one other primary immune cell type would strengthen its general utility. 

We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. Again, we believe that such an investigation would constitute a substantial study on its own and therefore lies beyond the scope of the present work.

(3) The authors do include appropriate negative controls, yet providing additional details (e.g., average single-molecule on-time or blinking characteristics) in supplementary materials could help readers assess cluster calculations. 

As suggested, we have included additional data showing single-molecule blinking events in untreated and LPS+ATP-treated BV2 cells, along with the corresponding movies. The data are now presented in Figure 5—supplement figure 3A and B and Figure 5—Videos 1 and 2.

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

(1) On line 96, the authors refer to the "ballast" domain of P2X7 receptor but do not cite the original article from which this nomenclature originated (McCarthy et al., 2019, Cell). This article should be cited to give appropriate credit. 

Done.

(2) On line 602, the authors state that they use models from PDB 1MK5 and 6U9W to generate the cartoons in Figure 6. The manuscripts from which these PDB files were generated need to be appropriately cited. 

Done.

(3) On line 319, the authors say "300 mM BzATP" but I think they mean 300 uM.

Done. Thank you for catching the typo.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

Overall, excellent data quality. The paper would benefit from a discussion of the physiological implications of clustering. It would also be helpful to elaborate about the potential mechanisms for clustering: diffusion and/or insertion. Finally, the authors should comment on work by Mackinnon's (PMID: 39739811) and Santana lab (PMID: 31371391) on two distinct models for clustering of proteins. 

As suggested by the reviewer, we have revised the discussion to incorporate their comments. First, we have added the following text:

“Upon BV2 activation, we observed significant nanoscale reorganization of P2X7. Both LPS and ATP (or BzATP) trigger P2X7 upregulation and clustering, increasing the overall number of surface receptors and the number of receptors per cluster, from one to three (Figure 6). By labeling BV2 cells with X7-uP shortly after IL-1b release, we were able to correlate the nanoscale distribution of P2X7 with the functional state of BV2 cells, consistent with the two-signal, synergistic model for IL-1b secretion observed in microglia and other cell types (Ferrari et al, 1996; Perregaux et al, 2000; Ferrari et al, 2006; Di Virgilio et al, 2017; He et al, 2017; Swanson et al, 2019). In this model, LPS priming leads to intracellular accumulation of pro-IL-1b, while ATP stimulation activates P2X7, triggering NLRP3 inflammasome activation and the subsequent release of mature IL-1b.

What is the mechanism underlying P2X7 upregulation that leads to an overall increase in surface receptors—does it result from the lateral diffusion of previously masked receptors already present at the plasma membrane, or from the insertion of newly synthesized receptors from intracellular pools in response to LPS and ATP? Although our current data do not distinguish between these possibilities, a recent study suggests that the a1 subunit of the Na⁺/K</sup>+</sup>-ATPase (NKAa1) forms a complex with P2X7 in microglia, including BV2 cells, and that LPS+ATP induces NKAa1 internalization (Huang et al, 2024). This internalization appears to release P2X7 from NKAa1, allowing P2X7 to exist in its free form. We speculate that the internalization of NKAa1 induced by both LPS and ATP exposes previously masked P2X7 sites, including the allosteric AZ10606120 sites, thus making them accessible for X7-uP labeling.”

Second, we have added a short paragraph at the end of the Discussion section addressing potential mechanisms by which P2X7 clustering may contribute to downstream inflammasome activation:

“What mechanisms underlie P2X7 clustering in response to inflammatory signals? Several models have been proposed to explain membrane protein clustering, including recruitment to structural scaffolds (Feng & Zhang, 2009), partitioning into membrane domains enriched in specific chemical components such as lipid rafts (Simons & Ikonen, 1997), and self-assembly mechanisms (Sieber et al, 2007). These self-assembly mechanisms include an irreversible stochastic model (Sato et al, 2019) and a more recent reversible self-oligomerization model which gives rise to higher-order transient structures (HOTS) (Zhang et al, 2025). Supported by cryogenic optical localization microscopy with very high resolution (~5 nm), the HOTS model has been observed in various membrane proteins, including ion channels and receptors (Zhang et al, 2025). Furthermore, HOTS are suggested to be dynamically modulated and to play a functional role in cell signaling, potentially influencing both physiological and pathological processes (Zhang & MacKinnon, 2025). While this hypothesis is compelling, our current dSTORM data lack sufficient spatial resolution to confirm whether P2X7 trimers form HOTS via self-oligomerization. Further biophysical and ultra-high-resolution imaging studies are required to test this model in the context of P2X7 clustering.”

Author response:

The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

Reviewer #1 (Public review):

Summary:

This manuscript by Pournejati et al investigates how BK (big potassium) channels and CaV1.3 (a subtype of voltage-gated calcium channels) become functionally coupled by exploring whether their ensembles form early-during synthesis and intracellular trafficking-rather than only after insertion into the plasma membrane. To this end, the authors use the PLA technique to assess the formation of ion channel associations in the different compartments (ER, Golgi or PM), single-molecule RNA in situ hybridization (RNAscope), and super-resolution microscopy.

Strengths:

The manuscript is well written and addresses an interesting question, combining a range of imaging techniques. The findings are generally well-presented and offer important insights into the spatial organization of ion channel complexes, both in heterologous and endogenous systems.

Weaknesses:

The authors have improved their manuscript after revisions, and some previous concerns have been addressed.

Still, the main concern about this work is that the current experiments do not quantitatively or mechanistically link the ensembles observed intracellularly (in the endoplasmic reticulum (ER) or Golgi) to those found at the plasma membrane (PM). As a result, it is difficult to fully integrate the findings into a coherent model of trafficking. Specifically, the manuscript does not address what proportion of ensembles detected at the PM originated in the ER. Without data on the turnover or halflife of these ensembles at the PM, it remains unclear how many persist through trafficking versus forming de novo at the membrane. The authors report the percentage of PLApositive ensembles localized to various compartments, but this only reflects the distribution of pre-formed ensembles. What remains unknown is the proportion of total BK and Ca_V1.3 channels (not just those in ensembles) that are engaged in these complexes within each compartment. Without this, it is difficult to determine whether ensembles form in the ER and are then trafficked to the PM, or if independent ensemble formation also occurs at the membrane. To support the model of intracellular assembly followed by coordinated trafficking, it would be important to quantify the fraction of the total channel population that exists as ensembles in each compartment. A comparable ensemble-to-total ratio across ER and PM would strengthen the argument for directed trafficking of pre-assembled channel complexes.

We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comment and agree that quantitatively linking intracellular hetero-clusters to those at the plasma membrane is an important and unresolved question. Our current study does not determine what proportion of ensembles at the plasma membrane originated during trafficking. It also does not quantify the fraction of total BK and Ca_V1.3 channels engaged in these complexes within each compartment. Addressing this requires simultaneous measurement of multiple parameters—total BK channels, total Ca_V1.3 channels, hetero-cluster formation (via PLA), and compartment identity—in the same cell. This is technically challenging. The antibodies used for channel detection are also required for the proximity ligation assay, which makes these measurements incompatible within a single experiment.

To overcome these limitations, we are developing new genetically encoded tools to enable real-time tracking of BK and Ca_V1.3 dynamics in live cells. These approaches will enable us to monitor channel trafficking and the formation of hetero-clusters, as detected by colocalization. This kind of experiments will provide insight into their origin and turnover. While these experiments are beyond the scope of the current study, the findings in our current manuscript provide the first direct evidence that BK and CaV channels can form hetero-clusters intracellularly prior to reaching the plasma membrane. This mechanistic insight reveals a previously unrecognized step in channel organization and lays the foundation for future work aimed at quantifying ensemble-to-total ratios and determining whether coordinated trafficking of pre-assembled complexes occurs.

This limitation is acknowledged in the discussion section, page 23. It reads: “Our findings highlight the intracellular assembly of BK-Ca_V1.3 hetero-clusters, though limitations in resolution and organelle-specific analysis prevent precise quantification of the proportion of intracellular complexes that ultimately persist on the cell surface.”

Reviewer #2 (Public review):

Summary:

The co-localization of large conductance calcium- and voltage activated potassium (BK) channels with voltage-gated calcium channels (CaV) at the plasma membrane is important for the functional role of these channels in controlling cell excitability and physiology in a variety of systems.

An important question in the field is where and how do BK and CaV channels assemble as 'ensembles' to allow this coordinated regulation - is this through preassembly early in the biosynthetic pathway, during trafficking to the cell surface or once channels are integrated into the plasma membrane. These questions also have broader implications for assembly of other ion channel complexes

Using an imaging based approach, this paper addresses the spatial distribution of BKCaV ensembles using both overexpression strategies in tsa201 and INS-1 cells and analysis of endogenous channels in INS-1 cells using proximity ligation and superesolution approaches. In addition, the authors analyse the spatial distribution of mRNAs encoding BK and Cav1.3.

The key conclusion of the paper that BK and Ca_V1.3 are co-localised as ensembles intracellularly in the ER and Golgi is well supported by the evidence.However, whether they are preferentially co-translated at the ER, requires further work. Moreover, whether intracellular pre-assembly of BK-Ca_V1.3 complexes is the major mechanism for functional complexes at the plasma membrane in these models requires more definitive evidence including both refinement of analysis of current data as well as potentially additional experiments.

The reviewer raises the question of whether BK and Ca_V1.3 channels are preferentially co-translated. In fact, I would like to propose that co-translation has not yet been clearly defined for this type of interaction between ion channels. In our current work, we 1) observed the colocalization between BK and Ca_V1.3 mRNAs and 2) determined that 70% of BK mRNA in active translation also colocalizes with Ca_V1.3 mRNA. We think these results favor the idea of translational complexes that can underlie the process of co-translation. However, and in total agreement with the Reviewer, the conclusion that the mRNA for the two ion channels is cotranslated would require further experimentation. For instance, mRNA coregulation is one aspect that could help to define co-translation. 

To avoid overinterpretation, we have revised the manuscript to remove references to “co-translation” in the Results section and included the word “potential” when referring to co-translation in the Discussion section. We also clarified the limitations of our evidence in the Discussion that can be found on page 25: “It is important to note that while our data suggest mRNA coordination, additional experiments are required to directly assess co-translation.”

Strengths & Weaknesses

(1) Using proximity ligation assays of overexpressed BK and CaV1.3 in tsa201 and INS1 cells the authors provide strong evidence that BK and CaV can exist as ensembles (ie channels within 40 nm) at both the plasma membrane and intracellular membranes, including ER and Golgi. They also provide evidence for endogenous ensemble assembly at the Golgi in INS-1 cells and it would have been useful to determine if endogenous complexes are also observe in the ER of INS-1 cells. There are some useful controls but the specificity of ensemble formation would be better determined using other transmembrane proteins rather than peripheral proteins (eg Golgi 58K).

We thank the reviewer for their thoughtful feedback and for recognizing the strength of our proximity ligation assay data supporting BK–Ca_V1.3 hetero-clusters formation at both the plasma membrane and intracellular compartments. As for specificity controls, we appreciate the suggestion to use transmembrane markers. To strengthen our conclusion, we have performed an additional experiment comparing the number of PLA puncta formed by the interaction of Ca_V1.3 and BK channels with the number of PLA puncta formed by the interaction of Ca_V1.3 channels and ryanodine receptors in INS-1 cells. As shown in the figure below, the number of interactions between Ca_V1.3 and BK channels is significantly higher than that between Ca_V1.3 and RyR₂. Of note, RyR₂ is a protein resident of the ER. These results provide additional evidence of the existence of endogenous complex formation in INS-1 cells. We have added this figure as a supplement.

(2) Ensemble assembly was also analysed using super-resolution (dSTORM) imaging in INS-1 cells. In these cells only 7.5% of BK and CaV particles (endogenous?) co-localise that was only marginally above chance based on scrambled images. More detailed quantification and validation of potential 'ensembles' needs to be made for example by exploring nearest neighbour characteristics (but see point 4 below) to define proportion of ensembles versus clusters of BK or Cav1.3 channels alone etc. For example, it is mentioned that a distribution of distances between BK and Cav is seen but data are not shown.

We thank the reviewer for this comment. To address the request for more detailed quantification and validation of ensembles, we performed additional analyses:

Proportion of ensembles vs isolated clusters: We quantified clusters within 200 nm and found that 37 ± 3% of BK clusters are near one or more CaV1.3 clusters, whereas 15 ± 2% of CaV1.3 clusters are near BK clusters. Figure 8– Supplementary 1A

Distance distribution: As shown in Figure 8–Supplementary 1B, the nearestneighbor distance distribution for BK-to-CaV1.3 in INS-1 cells (magenta) is shifted toward shorter distances compared to randomized controls (gray), supporting preferential localization of BK–CaV1.3 hetero-clusters.

Together, these analyses confirm that BK–CaV1.3 ensembles occur more frequently than expected by chance and exhibit an asymmetric organization favoring BK proximity to CaV1.3 in INS-1 cells. We have included these data and figures in the revised manuscript, as well as description in the Results section. 

(3) The evidence that the intracellular ensemble formation is in large part driven by cotranslation, based on co-localisation of mRNAs using RNAscope, requires additional critical controls and analysis. The authors now include data of co-localised BK protein that is suggestive but does not show co-translation. Secondly, while they have improved the description of some controls mRNA co-localisation needs to be measured in both directions (eg BK - SCN9A as well as SCN9A to BK) especially if the mRNAs are expressed at very different levels. The relative expression levels need to be clearly defined in the paper. Authors also use a randomized image of BK mRNA to show specificity of co-localisation with Cav1.3 mRNA, however the mRNA distribution would not be expected to be random across the cell but constrained by ER morphology if cotranslated so using ER labelling as a mask would be useful?

We thank the reviewer for these constructive suggestions. We measured mRNA colocalization in both directions as recommended. As shown in the figure below, colocalization between KCNMA1 and SCN9A transcripts was comparable in both directions, with no statistically significant difference, supporting the specificity of the observed associations. We decided not to add this to the original figure to keep the figure simple. 

We agree that co-localization of BK protein with BK mRNA is not conclusive evidence of co-translation, and we do not intend to mislead readers in our conclusion. Consequently, we were careful in avoiding the use of co-translation in the result section and added the word “potential” when referring to co-translation in the Discussion section. We added a sentence in the discussion to caution our interpretation: “It is important to note that while our data suggest mRNA coordination, additional experiments are required to directly assess cotranslation.”

Author response image 1.

(4) The authors attempt to define if plasma membrane assemblies of BK and CaV occur soon after synthesis. However, because the expression of BK and CaV occur at different times after transient transfection of plasmids more definitive experiments are required. For example, using inducible constructs to allow precise and synchronised timing of transcription. This would also provide critical evidence that co-assembly occurs very early in synthesis pathways - ie detecting complexes at ER before any complexes 

We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful suggestion regarding the use of inducible constructs to synchronize transcription timing. This is an excellent approach and would allow direct testing of whether co-assembly occurs early in the synthesis pathway, including detection of complexes at the ER prior to plasma membrane localization. These experiments are beyond the scope of the present work but represent an important direction for future studies.

We have added the following sentence to the Discussion section (page 24) to highlight this idea. “Future experiments using inducible constructs to precisely control transcription timing will enable more precise quantification of heterocluster formation in the ER compartment prior to plasma membrane insertion and reduce the variability introduced by differences in expression timing after plasmid transfection.” 

(5) While the authors have improved the definition of hetero-clusters etc it is still not clear in superesolution analysis, how they separate a BK tetramer from a cluster of BK tetramers with the monoclonal antibody employed ie each BK channel will have 4 binding sites (4 subunits in tetramer) whereas Cav1.3 has one binding site per channel. Thus, how do authors discriminate between a single BK tetramer (molecular cluster) with potential 4 antibodies bound compared to a cluster of 4 independent BK channels.

We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comment regarding the interpretation of super-resolution data. We agree that distinguishing a single BK tetramer from a cluster of multiple BK channels is challenging when using an antibody that can bind up to four sites per channel. To clarify, our analysis does not attempt to resolve individual subunits within a tetramer; rather, it focuses on the nanoscale spatial proximity of BK and Ca_V1.3 signals.

We want to note that this limitation applies only to the super-resolution maps in Figures 8C and 9D and does not affect Airyscan-based analyses or measurements of BK–Ca_V1.3 proximity.

To address how we might distinguish between a single BK tetramer and a cluster of multiple BK channels, we considered two contrasting scenarios. In the first case, we assume that all four α-subunits within a tetramer are labeled. Based on cryoEM structures, a BK tetramer measures approximately 13 nm × 13 nm (≈169 nm²). Adding two antibody layers (primary and secondary) would increase the footprint by ~14 nm in each direction, resulting in an estimated area of ~41 nm × 41 nm (≈1681 nm²). Under this assumption, particles smaller than ~1681 nm² would likely represent individual tetramers, whereas larger particles would correspond to clusters of multiple tetramers. 

In the second scenario, we propose that steric constraints at the S9–S10 segment, where the antibody binds, limit labeling to a single antibody per tetramer. If true, the localization precision would approximate 14 nm × 14 nm—the combined size of the antibody complex and the channel—close to the resolution limit of the microscope. To test this, we performed a control experiment using two antibodies targeting the BK C-terminal domain, raised in different species and labeled with distinct fluorophores. Super-resolution imaging revealed that only ~12% of particles were colocalized, suggesting that most channels bind a single antibody.

If multiple antibodies could bind each tetramer, we would expect much greater colocalization.

Although these data are not included in the manuscript, we have added the following clarification to the Results section (page 19): “It is important to note that this technique does not allow us to distinguish between labeling of four BK αsubunits within a tetramer and labeling of multiple BK channel clusters. Hence, particles smaller than ~1680 nm² may represent either a single tetramer or a cluster. This limitation applies to Figures 8C and 9D and does not affect measurements of BK–Ca_V1.3 proximity.”

Author response image 2.

(6) The post-hoc tests used for one way ANOVA and ANOVA statistics need to be defined throughout

We thank the reviewer for highlighting the need for clarity regarding our statistical analyses. We have now specified the post-hoc tests used for all one-way ANOVA and ANOVA comparisons throughout the manuscript, and updated figure legends.

Reviewer #3 (Public review):

Summary:

The authors present a clearly written and beautifully presented piece of work demonstrating clear evidence to support the idea that BK channels and Cav1.3 channels can co-assemble prior to their assertion in the plasma membrane.

Strengths:

The experimental records shown back up their hypotheses and the authors are to be congratulated for the large number of control experiments shown in the ms.

Recommendations for the authors:

Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

The authors have sufficiently addressed the specific points previously raised and the manuscript has improved clarity in those aspects. My main concern, which still remains, is stated in the public review.

Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

I am content that the authors have attempted to fully address my previous criticisms.

I have only three suggestions

(1) I think the word Homo-clusters at the bottom right of Figure 1 is erroneously included.

We thank the reviewer for bringing this to our attention. The figure has been corrected accordingly.

(2) The authors should, for completeness, to refer to the beta, gamma and LINGO subunit families in the Introduction and include appropriate references:

Knaus, H. G., Folander, K., Garcia-Calvo, M., Garcia, M. L., Kaczorowski, G. J., Smith, M., & Swanson, R. (1994). Primary sequence and immunological characterization of betasubunit of high conductance Ca2+-activated K+ channel from smooth muscle. The Journal of Biological Chemistry, 269(25), 17274-17278.

Brenner, R., Jegla, T. J., Wickenden, A., Liu, Y., & Aldrich, R. W. (2000a). Cloning and functional characterization of novel large conductance calcium-activated potassium channel beta subunits, hKCNMB3 and hKCNMB4. The Journal of Biological Chemistry, 275(9), 6453-6461.

Yan, J & R.W. Aldrich. (2010) LRRC26 auxiliary protein allows BK channel activation at resting voltage without calcium. Nature. 466(7305):513-516

Yan, J & R.W. Aldrich. (2012) BK potassium channel modulation by leucine-rich repeatcontaining proteins. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 109(20):7917-22

Dudem, S, Large RJ, Kulkarni S, McClafferty H, Tikhonova IG, Sergeant, GP, Thornbury, KD, Shipston, MJ, Perrino BA & Hollywood MA (2020). LINGO1 is a novel regulatory subunit of large conductance, Ca2+-activated potassium channels. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 117 (4) 2194-2200

Dudem, S., Boon, P. X., Mullins, N., McClafferty, H., Shipston, M. J., Wilkinson, R. D. A., Lobb, I., Sergeant, G. P., Thornbury, K. D., Tikhonova, I. G., & Hollywood, M. A. (2023). Oxidation modulates LINGO2-induced inactivation of large conductance, Ca2+-activated potassium channels. The Journal of Biological Chemistry, 299 (3) 102975.

We agree with the reviewer’s suggestion and have revised the Introduction to include references to the beta, gamma, and LINGO subunit families. Appropriate citations have been added to ensure completeness and contextual relevance.

Additionally, BK channels are modulated by auxiliary subunits, which fine-tune BK channel gating properties to adapt to different physiological conditions. The β, γ, and LINGO1 subunits each contribute distinct structural and regulatory features: β-subunits modulate Ca²⁺ sensitivity and can induce inactivation; γ-subunits shift voltage-dependent activation to more negative potentials; and LINGO1 reduces surface expression and promotes rapid inactivation (18-24). These interactions ensure precise control over channel activity, allowing BK channels to integrate voltage and calcium signals dynamically in various cell types.

(3) I think it may be more appropriate to include the sentence "The probes against the mRNAs of interest and tested in this work were designed by Advanced Cell Diagnostics." (P16, right hand column, L12-14) in the appropriate section of the Methods, rather than in Results.

We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. In response, we have relocated the sentence to the appropriate section of the Methods, where it now appears with relevant context.

Hornsby's posture seems clear: in these verses, he states that legal measures can only "go so far", that is, they can only operate up to a certain extent. He hints at the fact that another change has to occur: a cultural one. According to the author, indeed, equality can be achieved only in a co-constructive process that implicates the law on one side, and the culture on the other. In other words, what Hornsby is trying to state is that acts can be signed into law and assure people their rights, but it is equally important that people change their mindsets.

Note: This response was posted by the corresponding author to Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

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Reply to the reviewers

Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

A previous study by Komada et al. demonstrated that MAP7 is expressed in both Sertoli and germ cells, and that Map7 gene-trap mutant mice display disrupted microtubule bundle formation in Sertoli cells, accompanied by defects in spermatid manchettes and germ cell loss. In the current study, Kikuchi et al. investigated the role of MAP7 in the formation of the Sertoli cell apical domain during the first wave of spermatogenesis. They generated a GFP-tagged MAP7 mouse line and demonstrated that the endogenous MAP7 protein localizes to the apical microtubules in Sertoli cells and to the manchette microtubules in step 9-11 spermatids. They also generated a new Map7 knockout (KO) mouse line in a genetic background distinct from the one used in the previous study. Focusing on stages before the emergence of step 9-11 spermatids, the authors aimed to isolate defects caused by the function of MAP7 in Sertoli cells. They report that loss of MAP7 impairs Sertoli cell polarity and apical domain formation, accompanied by the microtubule remodeling defect. Using the GFP-tagged MAP7 line, they performed immunoprecipitation-mass spectrometry and identified several MAP7-interacting proteins in the testis, including MYH9. They further observed that MAP7 deletion alters the distribution of MYH9. Single-cell RNA sequencing revealed that the loss of MAP7 in Sertoli cells resulted in slight transcriptomic shifts but had no significant impact on their functional differentiation. Single-cell RNA sequencing analysis also showed delayed meiotic progression in the MAP7-deficient testis. Overall, while the study provides some interesting discoveries of early Sertoli cell defects in MAP7-deficient testes, some conclusions are premature and not fully supported by the presented data. The mechanistic investigations remain limited in depth.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this insightful summary. We agree that some of our initial interpretations were speculative and have revised the relevant sections to more accurately reflect the limitations of the current data. We also acknowledge that further mechanistic studies will be important to strengthen our conclusions, and we have outlined these plans in the individual responses below.

Major comments:

• Although the infertility phenotype of the Map7 gene-trap mutant mice has been reported previously, it remains essential to assess fertility in this newly generated MAP7 knockout line. While the authors present testis size and histological differences between WT and KO mice (Extended Fig. 2e and 2f), there is no corresponding description or interpretation in the main text regarding fertility outcomes.

Response: We thank the reviewer for raising this point. Although we had presented the differences in testis size and histology between wild-type and Map7-/- mice, we agree that a description of the corresponding fertility outcomes was missing from the main text. We have now revised the relevant part of the Results section as follows: “Consistent with observations in Map7 gene-trap mice, Map7-/- males exhibited reduced testis size and spermatogenic defects (Supplemental Fig. 2E, F). Notably, the cauda epididymis of Map7-/- males contained no mature spermatozoa (Supplemental Fig. 2F), indicating male infertility.” (page 5, line 33–page 6, line 2)

• In Figure 2C, the authors identified Sertoli cells, spermatogonia cells, and spermatocytes using SEM, based on their cell morphology and adhesion to the basement membrane. Given that the loss of MAP7 disrupts the polarity and architecture of Sertoli cells, the position of germ cells will be affected, making this identification criterion less reliable.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s comment. While the reviewer notes that cell identification was based on cell morphology and adhesion to the basement membrane, we clarify that nuclear morphology was also considered, as described in the original manuscript. Specifically, germ cells have spherical nuclei, whereas Sertoli cell nuclei are irregularly shaped (representative segmentation results can be provided as an additional Supplemental Figure upon request). Round spermatids at P21 can be distinguished from spermatocytes by their smaller nuclear size. In addition, spermatogonia remain attached to the basement membrane even in Map7-/- testes, as confirmed by GFRα1-positive spermatogonial stem cells (Figure 6A). Together, these features ensure reliable identification of each cell type, independent of the altered polarity observed in Map7-deficient Sertoli cells.

• In Figure 2e, the number of Sox9-positive Sertoli cells in MAP7 knockout mice appears higher than that in the control at P17. Quantification of total Sox9-positive cells should be done to determine whether MAP7 deletion increases Sertoli cell numbers.

Response: As suggested by the reviewer, we will quantify the density of SOX9-positive Sertoli cells per unit area of seminiferous tubule at P10 and P17 in Map7+/- and Map7-/- testes, and include the results in the revised manuscript.

• To determine whether MAP7's role in regulating Sertoli cell polarity relies on germ cells, the authors treated mice with busulfan at P28 to delete germ cells, a stage after Sertoli cell polarity defect has developed in MAP7 knockout mice. This data is insufficient to support the conclusion that MAP7 regulates Sertoli cell polarity independently of the presence of germ cells. Germ cell deletion should be done before the Sertoli cell defect develops to address this question.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comment regarding the interpretation of the busulfan experiments. While depletion of germ cells at P28 enabled us to assess Sertoli cell polarity in the absence of postnatal spermatogonia, these experiments do not definitively determine whether MAP7 regulates Sertoli cell polarity independently of germ cells. Neonatal germ-cell depletion would more directly test germ cell–independent effects; however, systemic busulfan administration at early developmental stages is highly toxic, often causing bone marrow failure and multi-organ damage, which precludes survival and confounds analysis of testis-specific effects. Although germ cell ablation could, in principle, be achieved using transgenic approaches that exploit the natural resistance of mice to diphtheria toxin (DTX) (reviewed in Smith et al., Andrology, 2015), these strategies require multiple transgenes and show minor variability in efficiency, making them impractical for our current experiments. Generating the necessary genetic combinations would require considerable time. We therefore plan to pursue alternative genetic approaches in future work.

In the revised manuscript, we have modified the relevant section to more accurately reflect the limitations of the current experiments, as follows: “Busulfan was administered at P28, and testes were analyzed 6 weeks later, after complete elimination of germ cell lineages. Following treatment, Map7+/- mice showed testis-to-body weight ratios comparable to untreated Map7-/- mice (Supplemental Fig. 3D), and hematoxylin-eosin (HE) staining confirmed germ cell depletion (Fig. 2F; Supplemental Fig. 3E). In Map7+/- testes, most Sertoli nuclei remained basally positioned, indicating that once apical–basal polarity is established, it is stably maintained even in the absence of germ cells. In contrast, Map7-/- Sertoli nuclei were frequently misoriented toward the lumen under the same conditions (Fig. 2F; Supplemental Fig. 3E), suggesting that polarity defects in Map7-deficient Sertoli cells occur independently of germ cell presence.” (page 7, lines 20–28)

In addition, we have added the following sentences to the Discussion section to highlight the implication of these findings: “In addition, even after germ cell depletion by busulfan treatment, Map7-deficient Sertoli cells failed to reestablish basal nuclear positioning, indicating that loss of MAP7 causes an intrinsic polarity defect. These findings suggest that MAP7 acts as a cell-autonomous regulator of Sertoli cell polarity, rather than mediating effects indirectly through germ cell–Sertoli cell interactions.” (page 15, lines17–21)

• The resolution of the SEM images in Figure 3c is insufficient to evaluate tight and adherens junctions clearly. As such, these images do not convincingly support the claim that adherens junctions are absent in the KO testes.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. Tight junctions can be reliably identified in SEM images as dense intercellular structures accompanied by endoplasmic reticulum aligned along the cell boundaries. The region immediately apical to the tight junctions likely corresponds to adherens junctions, which are also associated with the endoplasmic reticulum. Unlike tight junctions, these regions exhibit wider intercellular spaces, consistent with the looser membrane apposition characteristic of adherens junctions, although they cannot be unambiguously distinguished from gap junctions or desmosomes based on morphology alone. In the original figure, 2× binning reduced image resolution, which may have contributed to the reviewer’s concern.

In the revised manuscript, we have re-acquired the SEM images in high-resolution mode, focusing on the relevant regions. The new high-resolution images have replaced the original panels in revised Figure 3C, providing clearer visualization of junctional structures at P10 and P21 in Map7+/- and Map7-/- testes. The original Figure 3C images have been moved to Supplemental Figure 4B for reference.

The corresponding section in the Results has been revised as follows in the updated manuscript: “We then performed SEM to examine the effects of Map7 KO. In P21 Map7+/- testes, electron-dense regions along the basal side of Sertoli–Sertoli junctions corresponded to tight junctions closely associated with the endoplasmic reticulum, consistent with previous reports (Luaces et al. 2023) (Fig. 3C; Supplemental Fig. 4B). The region immediately apical to the tight junctions likely represents adherens junctions, which were also associated with the endoplasmic reticulum. Unlike tight junctions, these regions displayed wider intercellular spaces, reflecting the looser membrane apposition typical of adherens junctions, though they could not be definitively distinguished from gap junctions or desmosomes based on morphology alone (Fig. 3C; Supplemental Fig. 4B). At P10, both Map7+/- and Map7-/- testes lacked clearly defined tight junctions and adherens junction–like structures (Fig. 3C; Supplemental Fig. 4B). In P21 Map7-/- mice, Sertoli cells formed expanded basal tight junctions but failed to establish adherens junction–like structures (Fig. 3C; Supplemental Fig. 4B).” (page 8, line 34–page 9, line 12)

• GFP-tagged reporter mice and HeLa cells were used for immunoprecipitation-mass spectrometry to identify proteins that interact with MAP7. Given that the authors aimed to elucidate the mechanism by which MAP7 regulates Sertoli cell cytoskeleton organization, the rationale for including HeLa cells is unclear and should be better justified or reconsidered.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this comment. MAP7-egfpKI HeLa cells were used as a complementary system to identify MAP7-associated proteins, providing sufficient material and a controlled environment for robust detection. By comparing IP-MS results from MAP7-egfpKI HeLa cells and P17–P20 Map7-egfpKI testes, we can distinguish proteins that are specific to polarized Sertoli cells: proteins detected exclusively in P17–P20 testes may be involved in Sertoli cell polarization, whereas proteins detected in both systems likely represent general MAP7-associated factors that are not specific to Sertoli cell polarity.

This rationale has been clarified in the revised manuscript by adding the following sentence to the Results section: “MAP7-egfpKI HeLa cells were used as a complementary system, providing sufficient material and a controlled environment for robust detection of MAP7-associated proteins. Comparison of IP-MS results between MAP7-egfpKI HeLa cells and P17–P20 Map7-egfpKI testes allows identification of MAP7-associated proteins that are specific to polarized Sertoli cells, whereas proteins detected in both systems likely represent general MAP7-associated proteins.” (page 9 lines 27-32)

• The authors observed that MYH9, one of the MAP7-interacting proteins, does not colocalize with ectopic microtubule and F-actin structures in MAP7 KO testes and concluded that MAP7 facilitates the integration of microtubules and F-actin via interaction with NMII heavy chains. This conclusion is speculative and not adequately supported by the presented data.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. We agree that our initial conclusion was speculative and have revised the relevant section to more accurately reflect the limitations of the current data. The revised text now reads as follows: “These findings indicate that MYH9 localization at the luminal interface depends on MAP7, and suggest that MAP7 helps coordinate microtubules and F-actin, potentially via its association with NMII heavy chains.” (page 10, lines 13–15)

To further elucidate this mechanism, we will perform biochemical domain-mapping to define the MAP7 region responsible for MYH9 complex formation. We have already established a series of human MAP7 deletion mutants (as reported previously, EMBO Rep., 2018) and will conduct co-immunoprecipitation assays in HEK293 cells to identify the specific MAP7 domain required for complex formation with MYH9. Based on these results, we plan to use AlphaFold3 to predict the three-dimensional structure of the MAP7–MYH9 complex. These analyses will help clarify how MAP7 associates with the actomyosin network and provide additional mechanistic insights that complement our in vivo observations of MYH9 mislocalization in Map7-/- testes.

• The authors used Spearman correlation coefficients to analyze six Sertoli cell clusters and generated a minimum spanning tree to infer differentiation trajectories. However, details on the method used for constructing the tree are lacking. Moreover, relying solely on Spearman correlation to define differentiation topology is oversimplified.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s valuable feedback. We agree that Spearman correlation alone is insufficient to infer differentiation topology. In response, we reanalyzed the data using Monocle3, which implements branch-aware pseudotime inference to capture both cluster continuity and differentiation directionality. This reanalysis provides a more accurate reconstruction of differentiation trajectories among the six Sertoli cell clusters. Although the overall trajectories appeared different and a higher proportion of Map7-/- Sertoli cells exhibited very low pseudotime values, comparison of the control and Map7-/- trajectories revealed that the average node degree was nearly identical, indicating that the local graph structure—reflecting the connectivity among neighboring cells—was largely preserved. The numbers of branch points and the graph diameter differed slightly, likely due to differences in sample size (311 control vs. 434 Map7-/- Sertoli cells) and distribution bias rather than major topological changes. Accordingly, Figures 5C and 5D have been replaced with the updated Monocle3-based trajectory analysis, and the corresponding text in the Results section and figure legend have been revised as follows:

“To reconstruct differentiation trajectories among the six Sertoli cell clusters, we reanalyzed the datasets using Monocle3, which incorporates branch-aware pseudotime inference. Cluster C1 was selected as the root based on shared specificity and entropy scores, consistent with its metabolically active and transcriptionally diverse profile (Fig. 5B, C; Supplemental Fig. 7). While the overall trajectories appeared altered, the proportion of Map7-/- Sertoli cells with very low pseudotime values was only modestly increased (Fig. 5D). Comparison with controls showed that the average node degree was nearly identical (Fig. 5C), indicating that the local graph structure, reflecting connectivity among neighboring cells, remained largely intact. Minor differences in branch points and graph diameter likely reflect inherent variability in the data rather than major topological changes (Supplemental Fig. 6B). Consistent with this, the relative proportions of the six clusters showed only modest shifts, suggesting that the overall architecture of Sertoli cell differentiation is largely preserved in the absence of MAP7.” (page 11, lines 7-18)

“(C) Control and Map7-/- Sertoli cells were visualized separately using UMAPs constructed in Seurat. Using the same datasets, pseudotime trajectories were inferred with Monocle3. For root selection, shared_score (cluster overlap), specificity_score (cluster uniqueness), and entropy_score (transcriptional diversity) were computed, resulting in cluster 1 being selected as the root. The numbers of nodes, edges, branch points, average degree, and diameter of each trajectory are shown below the corresponding UMAPs. (D) Parallel comparison of pseudotime distributions between control and Map7-/- populations.” (page 30, lines 5-12)

Minor comments:

• Several extended data figures are redundant with main figures and do not provide additional value (e.g., Fig. 2d vs. Extended Data Fig. 3a; Fig. 2f vs. Extended Data Fig. 3d; Fig. 2C vs. Extended Data Fig. 4b; Fig. 3d vs. Extended Data Fig. 4c). The authors should consolidate or remove duplicates.

Response: Regarding the concerns about redundancy between main and Supplemental figures, we would like to clarify the rationale for retaining certain Supplemental figures.

Fig. 2D vs. Supplemental Fig. 3A: Due to space limitations in the main figure, only the merged three-color image was shown. We believe that the single-color grayscale images in Supplemental Fig. 3A provide additional clarity, allowing easier visualization of SOX9-positive Sertoli cell distribution and differences in F-actin structure.

Fig. 2F vs. Supplemental Fig. 3E: In the main figure, only the high-magnification image was shown due to space constraints. The lower-magnification image in Supplemental Fig. 3E demonstrates that the selected field was not chosen arbitrarily, providing context for the observed structures. In addition, Supplemental Fig. 3E includes both low- and high-magnification images of age-matched busulfan (-) testes as a control for the busulfan (+) condition, further supporting the validity of the comparison.

For the above-mentioned cases (Fig. 2D vs. Supplemental. 3A; Fig. 2F vs. Supplemental Fig. 3E), as well as other potentially overlapping figures (e.g., Fig. 3D vs. Supplemental Fig. 4C), we believe that the additional single-channel and lower-magnification images provide important context that cannot be fully conveyed in the main figures due to space limitations. Nevertheless, to address the reviewer’s concern, we will (i) clearly state the purpose of each Supplemental figure in the corresponding legends, and (ii) re-evaluate all figures to consolidate or remove any truly redundant panels. Our goal is to ensure that all figures collectively convey the data in the most concise and informative manner.

• Figure citations in the main text do not consistently match figure content. For example, on page 7 (lines 5-6), the text refers to Extended Data Fig. 4a for SOX9 staining. Yet, it is the extended Data Fig. 3a that contains the relevant data. Similarly, the reference to Extended Data Fig. 4b and 4c on page 7 (lines 7-8) for adult defects is inaccurate.

Response: We thank the reviewer for drawing attention to these inconsistencies. We have carefully checked all figure citations throughout the main text and corrected them so that they consistently match the figure content. The revised manuscript reflects these corrections.

• In Figure 2e, percentages of Sertoli cells across three layers are shown. The figure legend should specify which layer(s) show statistically significant differences between WT and KO.

Response: We are grateful to the reviewer for highlighting this point. Statistical comparisons were performed between Map7+/- and Map7-/- mice within each corresponding layer at P17. Statistical significance was assessed using Student’s t-test, and all three layers showed significant differences between Map7+/- and Map7-/- (P < 2.20 × 10⁻⁴). The figure legend has been revised accordingly as follows: “Statistical comparisons between Map7+/- and Map7-/- mice were performed for each corresponding layer at P17 using Student’s t-test. All three layers showed significant differences between Map7+/- and Map7-/- mice (*, P<2.20 × 10⁻⁴).” (page 28, lines 5-8)

• The current color scheme for F-actin and TUBB3 in Figure 3 lacks sufficient contrast. Adjusting to more distinguishable colors would improve readability.

Response: Response: We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. In the original merged images, four channels (DNA, TUBB3, F-actin, and β-catenin) were displayed together, which reduced contrast between cytoskeletal signals. To improve clarity, we generated new merged images showing only TUBB3 and F-actin, allowing better visual distinction between these components. In addition, β-catenin and DNA are now displayed together as a separate merged image (β-catenin in yellow and DNA in blue) in the final column, highlighting the altered localization of β-catenin in Map7-/- testes.

• Since multiple scale bars with different units are present within the same figures, adding units directly above or beside each scale bar would improve readability.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. Following this recommendation, we have added units directly above each scale bar in all figures to improve readability.

• It is recommended to directly mark Sertoli cells, spermatogonia, and spermatocytes on the SEM images in Figure 2C for clearer visualization.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. We will follow this recommendation by performing segmentation and directly marking Sertoli cells, spermatogonia, and spermatocytes on the SEM images in Figure 2C to improve visualization.

• The quantification of Sertoli cell positioning shown in Fig. 2C is already described in the main text and is unnecessary in the figure.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the quantification of Sertoli cell positioning. Although the results are described in the main text, we believe that the visual presentation in Figure 2C is essential for conveying the spatial distribution pattern in an intuitive and comparative manner. To address the concern about redundancy, we have slightly revised the figure legend (page 27, lines 28–29) to clarify that this panel provides a visual summary of the quantitative data described in the text, thereby improving clarity without unnecessary duplication.

_Referee cross-commenting_

I concur with Reviewer 2 that the Map7-eGFP mouse model is a valuable tool for the research community. I also agree that performing MAP7-MYH9 double immunofluorescence staining to demonstrate their colocalization would further strengthen the authors' conclusions regarding their interaction. My overall assessment of the manuscript remains unchanged: the study represents an incremental advance that extends previous findings on MAP7 function but provides limited new mechanistic insight.

Reviewer #1 (Significance):

This study investigates the role of the microtubule-associated protein MAP7 in Sertoli cell polarity and apical domain formation during early stages of spermatogenesis. Using GFP-tagged and MAP7 knockout mouse models, the authors show that MAP7 localizes to apical microtubules and is required for Sertoli cell cytoskeletal organization and germ cell development. While the study identifies early Sertoli cell defects and candidate MAP7-interacting proteins, the mechanistic insights remain limited, and several conclusions require stronger experimental support. Overall, the discovery represents an incremental advance that extends prior findings on MAP7 function, providing additional but modest insights into the role of MAP7 in cytoskeletal regulation in male reproduction.

Response: We thank the reviewer for their constructive comments and thoughtful evaluation of our manuscript. We appreciate the positive feedback regarding the value of the Map7-egfpKI mouse model for the research community. We also thank the reviewer for the suggestion to perform MAP7–MYH9 double immunofluorescence staining to demonstrate colocalization, which we agree will further strengthen the mechanistic support.

We would like to clarify that several aspects of our findings represent novel contributions within a field where the mechanisms of microtubule remodeling during apical domain formation have remained largely unresolved. In particular, our study provides evidence that MAP7 is asymmetrically enriched at the apical microtubule network in Sertoli cells and contributes to the directional organization of these microtubules—an aspect of Sertoli cell polarity that has not been previously characterized. Our results further indicate that dynamic microtubule turnover, rather than stabilization alone, is required for proper apical domain formation, addressing a gap in current understanding of how microtubules are reorganized during early polarity establishment. In addition, the data support a role for MAP7 in coordinating microtubule and actomyosin organization, suggesting a scaffolding function that links these cytoskeletal systems. We also observe that Sertoli cell polarity can be functionally separated from cell identity and that disruptions in apical domain architecture precede delays in germ cell developmental progression. Taken together, these observations provide mechanistic insight that expands upon previous studies of MAP7 function at the cellular level.

The conclusions are supported by multiple, complementary lines of evidence, including knockout and Map7-egfpKI mouse models, high-resolution electron microscopy, immunoprecipitation–mass spectrometry, and single-cell RNA sequencing. While we agree that further experiments, such as MAP7–MYH9 double staining, will strengthen the mechanistic framework, we will also perform complementary biochemical analyses to provide additional insight. Specifically, we plan to conduct domain-mapping experiments to identify the MAP7 region required for MYH9 complex formation, coupled with co-immunoprecipitation assays in cultured cells to validate this association.

Although generating new mutant mouse lines is not feasible within the scope of this revision, and no in vitro system fully recapitulates Sertoli cell polarization, these complementary approaches will provide further mechanistic support. We believe that these planned experiments, together with the current dataset, will clarify the underlying mechanisms and reinforce the significance of our findings, while appropriately acknowledging the current limits of experimental evidence.

Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

In this manuscript the authors evaluate the role of Microtubule Associated Protein 7 (MAP7) in postnatal Sertoli cell development. The authors build two novel transgenic mouse lines (Map7-eGFP, Map7 knockout) which will be useful tools to the community. The transgenic mouse lines are used in paired advanced sequencing experiments and advanced imaging experiments to determine how Sertoli cell MAP7 is involved in the first wave of spermatogenesis. The authors identify MAP7 as an important regulator of Sertoli cell polarity and junction formation with loss of MAP7 disrupting intracellular microtubule and F-actin arrangement and Sertoli cell morphology. These structural issues impact the first wave of spermatogenesis causing a meiotic delay that limits round spermatid numbers. The authors also identify possible binding partners for MAP7, key among those MYH9.

The authors did a great job building a complex multi-modal project that addressed the question of MAP7 function from many angles. The is an excellent balance of using many advanced methods while still keeping the project narrowed, to use only tools to address the real questions. The lack of quality testing on the germ cells outside of TUNEL is disappointing, but the Conclusion section implies that this sort of work is being done currently so the omission in this manuscript is acceptable. However, there is an issue with the imaging portion of the work on MYH9. The conclusions from the MYH9 data is currently overstated, super-resolution imaging of Map7 knockouts with microtubule and F-actin stains, and imaging that uses MYH9 with either Map7-eGFP or anti-MAP7 are also needed to both support the MAP7-MYH9 interaction normally and lack of interaction with failure of MYH9 to localize to microtubules and F-actin in knockouts. Since a Leica SP8 was used for the imaging, using either Leica LIGHTNING or just higher magnification will likely be the easiest solution.

Response: We sincerely appreciate the reviewer’s thorough and positive evaluation of our study. We are encouraged that the reviewer recognized the overall strength of our multi-modal approach and the scientific value of the Map7-egfp knock-in and Map7 knockout genome-edited mouse models that we generated. We also thank the reviewer for highlighting the balance between methodological breadth and focused, hypothesis-driven investigation in our work.

Regarding the reviewer’s valuable comments on the imaging data, we have addressed them as follows. We improved the cytoskeletal imaging data as described in response to the reviewer’s minor comments. Specifically, in the revised Figure 3B, we replaced the original images with higher-resolution confocal images to provide a clearer view of cytoskeletal organization. In addition, following Reviewer #1’s suggestion, we modified the panel layout to enlarge each field and enhance the contrast between TUBB3 and F-actin channels, allowing better visualization of their altered localization in Map7-/- testes.

We agree that super-resolution imaging comparing control and Map7-/- testes stained for TUBB3 and F-actin would further strengthen the analysis. If the current resolution is still considered insufficient, we plan to perform additional imaging using a Carl Zeiss Airyscan or Leica Stellaris 5 system to further improve spatial resolution and confirm the observed cytoskeletal phenotypes. Finally, we will perform co-imaging of MYH9 with MAP7 to validate their spatial relationship under normal conditions, complementing the existing data obtained from Map7-/- testes.

This manuscript is nicely organized with almost all of the results spelled out very clearly and almost always paired with figures that make compelling and convincing support for the conclusions. There are minor revision suggestions for improving the manuscript listed below. These include synching up Figure and Supplemental Figure reference mismatches. There are also many minor, but important, details that need to be added to the Methods section including many catalog numbers and some references.

- Some of the imaging, especially Fig4F could benefit and be more convincing with super-resolution imaging in the 150nm range (SIM, Airyscan, LIGHTNING, SoRa) possibly even just imaging with a higher magnification objective (60x or 100x)

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to improve the resolution of the imaging data. In addition to revising Figure 3B as described above, we have also replaced the images in Figure 4F with higher-resolution confocal images to provide a clearer view of MYH9 localization relative to microtubules and F-actin. These revised images highlight that MYH9 specifically accumulates at apical regions where microtubules and F-actin intersect, forming the apical ES, but is not localized to the basal ES-associated F-actin structures. To retain spatial context and allow readers to appreciate the overall distribution pattern, the original lower-magnification images from Figure 4F have been moved to Supplemental Figure 5.

- SuppFig1D: Please add context in the legend to the meaning of the Yellow Stars and "O->U" labels. The latter would seem to be to indicate the Ovarian and Uterine sides of the image

Response: In response to this comment, we revised the figure legend to clarify the annotations. The legend now states: “O, ovary side; U, uterus side. Asterisks indicate secretory cells that lack planar cell polarity.”

- Pg6Line7: up to P23 or up to P35?

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s attention to this detail. The text has been revised for clarity as follows: “To examine the temporal dynamics of Sertoli cell polarity establishment, we analyzed seminiferous tubule morphology across the first wave of spermatogenesis, from postnatal day (P)10 to P35. To specifically assess the role of MAP7 in Sertoli cells while minimizing contributions from germ cells, our analysis focused on stages up to P23, before MAP7 expression becomes detectable in step 9–11 spermatids (Fig. 1), to exclude potential secondary effects resulting from MAP7 loss in germ cells.” (page 6, lines 5-10)

- SuppFig4B: Does SuppFig4B reference back to Fig3B or Fig3C? If the latter please update this in the legend.

- Pg7Line21-23: Is SuppFig3D,E meant to be referenced and not SuppFig5A,B?

- Pg8Line22-25: Is SuppFig4A meant to be reference and not SuppFig5?

- Pg8Line34-Pg9Line: Is SuppFig4B meant to be reference and not SuppFig5B?

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s careful reading. All mismatches in Supplemental figure references have been corrected, ensuring that each reference in the text now accurately corresponds to the appropriate data.

- Pg9Line28-33: Would the authors be willing to rework this figure to include images that more closely match the reported findings? The current version does not strongly support the idea that MYH9 fails to localize to microtubule and F-actin domains in Map7 knockout P17 seminiferous tubules. This could also just be a matter of acquiring these images at a higher magnification or with a lower-end (150nm range) super-resolution system (SIM, Airyscan, LIGHTNING, SoRa etc)

Response: Following the reviewer’s recommendation, we replaced the images in Figure 4F with higher-resolution confocal images to better visualize MYH9 localization relative to microtubules and F-actin in Map7+/- and Map7-/- testes. These revised images demonstrate that MYH9 specifically accumulates at apical regions where microtubules and F-actin intersect, but not at the basal ES-associated F-actin structures. To preserve spatial context, the original low-magnification images have been moved to Supplemental Figure 5. If additional resolution is required, we are prepared to acquire further images using an Airyscan or Stellaris 5 system.

- SuppFig7A: The legend notes these are P23 samples but the image label says 8W. Please update this to whichever is the correct age.

Response: We thank the reviewer for pointing out this discrepancy. The figure legend for Supplemental Figure 7A (now revised as Supplemental Figure 8A) has been corrected to indicate that the samples are from 8-week-old mice, consistent with the image label.

- Pg16Line4-5: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the C57BL/6 mice

Response: The text now specifies: “C57BL/6NJcl mice were purchased from CLEA Japan (Tokyo, Japan)” (page 17, line 4). CLEA Japan does not assign catalog numbers to mouse strains.

- Pg16Line18-19: Please include in the text the catalog number for the DMEM

- Pg16Line19-20: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the FBS

- Pg16Line20: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the Pen-Strep

Response: We have added vendor and catalog information as follows: “Wild-type and MAP7-EGFPKI HeLa cells were cultured in Dulbecco’s Modified Eagle Medium (DMEM, 043-30085; Fujifilm Wako Pure Chemical, Osaka, Japan) supplemented with 10% fetal bovine serum (FBS, 35-015-CV; Corning, Corning, NY, USA) and penicillin–streptomycin (26253-84; Nacalai, Kyoto, Japan) at 37 °C in a humidified atmosphere containing 5% CO₂ 18.” (page 17, lines 18-22)

- Pg17Line6-12: Thank you for including organized and detailed information about the primers, please also define the PCR protocol used including temperatures, timing, and cycles for Map7 knockout genotyping

- Pg17Line20-27: Thank you for including organized and detailed information about the primers, please also define the PCR protocol used including temperatures, timing, and cycles for Map7-eGFP genotyping

Response: The text has been updated to include the PCR conditions used for genotyping as follows: “Genotyping PCR was routinely performed as follows. Genomic DNA was prepared by incubating a small piece of the cut toe in 180 µL of 50 mM NaOH at 95 °C for 15 min, followed by neutralization with 20 µL of 1 M Tris-HCl (pH 8.0). After centrifugation for 20 min, 1 µL of the resulting DNA solution was used as the PCR template. Each reaction (8 µL total volume) contained 4 µL of Quick Taq HS DyeMix (DTM-101; Toyobo, Osaka, Japan) and a primer mix. PCR cycling conditions were as follows: 94 °C for 2 min; 35 cycles of 94 °C for 30 s, 65 °C for 30 s, and 72 °C for 1 min; followed by a final extension at 72 °C for 2 min and a hold at 4 °C. PCR products were analyzed using agarose gel electrophoresis. This protocol was also applied to other mouse lines and alleles generated in this study.” (page 18, lines 17–25)

- Pg17Line30: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the Laemmli sample buffer

Response: We clarified that the buffer was prepared in-house.

- Pg17Line32&SuppTable1: Thank you for including an organized and detailed table for the primary antibodies used, please also make either a similar table or expand the current table to include secondary antibody information

- Pg17Line32: Please note in the text which primary antibodies and secondary antibodies from Supp Table 1

Response: Supplementary Table 1 has been updated to include both primary and HRP-conjugated secondary antibodies. In the Immunoblotting section of the Materials and Methods, we specified the antibodies used: “The following primary antibodies were used: mouse anti-Actin (C4, 0869100-CF; MP Biomedicals, Irvine, CA, USA), mouse anti-Clathrin heavy chain (610500; BD Biosciences, Franklin Lakes, NJ, USA), rat anti-GFP (GF090R; Nacalai, 04404-84), rabbit anti-MAP7 (SAB1408648; Sigma-Aldrich, St. Louis, MO, USA), rabbit anti-MAP7 (C2C3, GTX120907; GeneTex, Irvine, CA, USA), and mouse anti-α-tubulin (DM1A, T6199; Sigma-Aldrich). Corresponding HRP-conjugated secondary antibodies were used for detection: goat anti-mouse IgG (12-349; Sigma-Aldrich), goat anti-rabbit IgG (12-348; Sigma-Aldrich), and goat anti-rat IgG (AP136P; Sigma-Aldrich). Detailed information for all primary and secondary antibodies is provided in Supplementary Table 1.” (page 19, lines 14-22)

- Pg18Line2: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the Bouin's

Response: The text has been updated to indicate that Bouin’s solution was prepared in-house

- Pg18Line3: Please include in the text the catalog number for the CREST-coated glass slides

- Pg18Line7: Please include in the text the catalog number for the OCT compound

- Pg18Line11: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the Donkey Serum

- Pg18Line11: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the Goat Serum

Response: The text now includes vendor and catalog information for all these reagents, including CREST-coated slides (SCRE-01; Matsunami Glass, Osaka, Japan), OCT compound (4583; Sakura Finetechnical, Tokyo, Japan), donkey serum (017-000-121; Jackson ImmunoResearch Laboratories, PA, USA), and goat serum (005-000-121; Jackson ImmunoResearch Laboratories).

- Pg18Line13: Thank you for including an organized and detailed table for the primary antibodies used, please also make either a similar table or expand the current table to include secondary antibody information

Response: We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. Supplementary Table 1 already includes information for the antibodies used for immunoblotting, and we have now added information for the Alexa Fluor-conjugated secondary antibodies used for immunofluorescence in this study.

- Pg18Line18: Please include in the text the vendor and catalog number for the DAPI

Response: The text has been updated to include the vendor and catalog number for DAPI (D9542; Sigma-Aldrich).

- Pg18Line19: Please also include information about the objectives used including catalog numbers, detectors used (PMT vs HyD)

Response: We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. The following information has been added to the Histological analysis section in Materials and Methods: “Objectives used were HC PL APO 40×/1.30 OIL CS2 (11506428; Leica) and HC PL APO 63×/1.40 OIL CS2 (11506350; Leica), with digital zoom applied as needed for high-magnification imaging. DAPI was detected using PMT detectors, while Alexa Fluor 488, 594, and 647 signals were captured using HyD detectors. Images were acquired in sequential mode with detector settings adjusted to prevent signal bleed-through.” (page 20, lines 13-17)

- Pg18Line23: Please cite in the text the reference paper for Fiji (Schindelin et al. 2012 Nature Methods PMID: 22743772) and note the version of Fiji used

- Pg18Line24: Please note the version of Aivia used

Response: We have revised the text accordingly by citing the reference paper for Fiji (Schindelin et al., 2012, Nature Methods, PMID: 22743772) and noting the version used (v.2.16/1.54p). In addition, we have added the version of Aivia used in this study (version 14.1).

- Pg18Line25: If possible, please use a more robust and reliable system than Microsoft Excel to do statistics (Graphpad Prism, Stata, R, etc), if this is not possible please note the version of Microsoft Excel used

Response: We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion. For basic statistical analyses such as the Student’s t-test, we used Microsoft Excel (Microsoft Office LTSC Professional Plus 2021), which has been sufficient for these standard calculations. For more advanced analyses, including ANOVA and single-cell RNA-seq analyses, we used R. These details have now been added to the text.

- Pg18Line25: Please cite in the text the reference paper for R (R Core Team 2021 R Foundation for Statistical Computing "R: A Language and Environment for Statistical Computing") and note the version of R used

- Pg18Line25: Please note the specific R package with version used to do ANOVA, and cite in the text the reference for this package

Response: We have cited the reference for R (R Core Team, 2021. R: A Language and Environment for Statistical Computing. R Foundation for Statistical Computing, Vienna, Austria) and noted the version used (version 4.4.0) in the text. In addition, regarding ANOVA, we have added the following description: “For ANOVA analysis, linear models were fitted using the base stats package (lm function), and analysis of variance was conducted with the anova function.” (page 20, lines 23-25)

- Pg18Line25: Please clarify, was a R package called "AVNOVA" used to do ANOVA or is this a typo?

Response: We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. It was a typographical error — the correct term is “ANOVA”. The text has been corrected accordingly.

- Pg18Line32: Please include in the text the catalog number for the EPON 812 Resin

- Pg19Line3: Please include the version number for Stacker Neo

- Pg19Line5: Please include the vendor and version number for Amira 2022

- Pg19Line5: Please include the version number for Microscopy Image Browser

- Pg19Line5: Please include the version number for MATLAB that was used to run Microscopy Image Browser

Response: We added the catalog number for the EPON 812 resin and the vendor and version information for the software used. The following details have been included in the revised text:

EPON 812 resin: TAAB Embedding Resin Kit with DMP-30 (T004; TAAB Laboratory and Microscopy, Berks, UK)

Stacker Neo: version 3.5.3.0; JEOL

Amira 2022: version 2022.1; Thermo Fisher Scientific

Microscopy Image Browser: version 2.91

Note that although Microscopy Image Browser is written in MATLAB, we used the standalone version that does not require a separate MATLAB installation.

- Pg19Line: 9-10: Please include in the text the catalog number for the complete protease inhibitor

- Pg19Line14: Please include in the text the catalog number for the Magnetic Agarose Beads

- Pg19Line16: Please include in the text the catalog number for the GFP-Trap Magnetic Agarose Beads

Response: We have added the catalog numbers for the complete protease inhibitor (4693116001), control magnetic agarose beads (bmab), and GFP-Trap magnetic agarose beads (gtma).

- Pg19Line21: Please note in the text which primary antibodies and secondary antibodies from Supp Table 1

- Pg19Line21-22: Please include in the text the catalog number for the ECL Prime

Response: We thank the reviewer for the helpful suggestions. The description regarding immunoblotting (“Eluted samples were separated by SDS–PAGE, transferred to PVDF membranes…”) was reorganized: overlapping content has been removed, and the necessary information has been integrated into the “Immunoblotting” section, where details of the primary and secondary antibodies (listed in Supplementary Table 1) are already provided. In addition, the information for ECL Prime has been updated to “Amersham ECL Prime (RPN2236; Cytiva, Tokyo, Japan)”.

- Pg20Line2: Please include the version number for Xcalibur

Response: The version of Xcalibur used in this study (version 4.0.27.19) has been added to the text.

- Pg20Line5: Please cite in the text the reference paper for SWISS-PROT (Bairoch and Apweiler 1999 Nucleic Acid Research PMID: 9847139)

Response: The reference paper for SWISS-PROT (Bairoch and Apweiler, 1999, Nucleic Acids Research, PMID: 9847139) has been cited in the text.

- Pg19Line26: Please include in the text the catalog number for the NuPAGE gels

- Pg19Line28: Please include in the text the catalog number for the SimpleBlue SafeStain

Response: Both catalog numbers have been added in the Mass spectrometry section as follows: 4–12% NuPAGE gels (NP0321PK2; Thermo Fisher Scientific) and SimplyBlue SafeStain (LC6060; Thermo Fisher Scientific).

- Pg20Line26: Please include in the text the catalog number for the Chromium Singel Cell 3' Reagent Kits v3

Response: The catalog number for the Chromium Single Cell 3′ Reagent Kits v3 (PN-1000075; 10x Genomics) has been added to the text.

- Pg21Line3: Please cite in the text the reference paper for R (R Core Team 2021 R Foundation for Statistical Computing "R: A Language and Environment for Statistical Computing")

Response: The reference for R (R Core Team, 2021. R: A Language and Environment for Statistical Computing. R Foundation for Statistical Computing, Vienna, Austria) has already been cited in the “Histological analysis” section, where ANOVA analysis is described.

- Pg21Line3 Please cite in the text the reference for RStudio (Posit team (2025). RStudio: Integrated Development Environment for R. Posit Software, PBC, Boston, MA. URL http://www.posit.co/.)

Response: The reference for RStudio (Posit team, 2025. RStudio: Integrated Development Environment for R. Posit Software, PBC, Boston, MA, USA. URL: http://www.posit.co/) has been added to the text.

- Pg21Line23: Please include the version number for Metascape

Response: The version of Metascape used in this study (v3.5.20250701) has been added to the text.

- SuppFig12: please update the legend to include a description after the title and update the figure labeling to correspond to the legend. Also, this figure is currently not referenced anywhere in the text.

Response: We have updated the legend for Supplemental Figure 12 (Supplemental Figure 13) to include a descriptive sentence after the title and have adjusted the figure labeling to match the legend. The revised legend now reads: “Full-scan images of the agarose gels shown in Supplemental Figs. 1B and 2C are displayed in the upper and lower left panels, respectively, while the corresponding full-scan images of the immunoblots shown in Supplemental Figs. 1C and 2D are presented in the upper and lower right panels, respectively.”

As these images serve as source data, they are not referenced directly in the main text.

_Referee cross-commenting_

I generally agree with Reviewer 1 and specifically concur related to adding details about fertility assessment of the Map7 Knockout line, and enhancing the SEM imaging.

Response: As noted in our response to Reviewer #1, we have re-acquired the SEM images in high-resolution mode, focusing on the relevant regions. The new high-resolution images have replaced the original panels in revised Figure 3C, providing clearer visualization of junctional structures at P10 and P21 in Map7+/- and Map7-/- testes. The original Figure 3C images have been moved to Supplemental Figure 4B for reference.

Reviewer #2 (Significance):

There are mouse lines, and datasets that will be useful resources to the field. This work also advances our understanding of a period in Sertoli cell development that is critical to fertility but very understudied.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the positive comments and for recognizing the potential value of our mouse lines and datasets to the field, as well as the significance of our work in advancing the understanding of this critical but understudied period in Sertoli cell development.

Bad advice. Safe to fail probes are not 'unserious', bc of aiming to limit the downside should they fail. The point is having the probe to explore 'cheaply' within the actual context of work. First part, the interest should be genuine, is completely true. It does not mean you can't do risk containment though. Probes are real and safe simultaneously. [[Probe proberend handelen 20201111162752]]

How to Start a Zettelkasten When You Are Stuck in Theory • Zettelkasten Method<br /> by [[sascha]]<br /> accessed on 2025-12-11T14:08:33

Meh...

one of the shortest routes, but it also presumes a knowledge of too much other theory and is geared at getting one moving at creating rather than reading the theory

Note: This response was posted by the corresponding author to Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

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Reply to the reviewers

Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

Summary:

The manuscript titled "Unravelling the Progression of the Zebrafish Primary Body Axis with Reconstructed Spatiotemporal Transcriptomics" presents a comprehensive analysis of the development of the primary body axis in zebrafish by integrating bulk RNA-seq, 3D images, and Stereo-Seq. The authors first clearly demonstrate the application of Palette for integrating RNA-seq and Stereo-Seq using published spatial transcriptomics data of Drosophila embryos. Subsequently, they produced serial bulk RNA-seq data for certain developmental stages of Danio rerio embryos and utilized published Stereo-Seq data. Through robust validation, the authors observe the molecular network involved in AP axis formation. While the authors show that integrating bulk RNA-seq data with Stereo-Seq improves spatial resolution, additional proof is required to demonstrate the extent of this improvement.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the positive feedback on our Palette pipeline, zSTEP construction and analysis of primary body axis development. We appreciate the constructive suggestions provided, which we can implement to improve our manuscript. As pointed out by the reviewer, some analysis procedures were not described in sufficient detail. To address this, we have added more explanatory texts and additional schematic diagrams to make the methods clearer and more understandable. We also thank the reviewer for the meticulous reading and for reminding us to include parameters, references and essential texts, which significantly improve the manuscript quality and make the manuscript more rigorous. Furthermore, as suggested by the reviewer, the extent of the improvement on the spatial resolution was not clearly demonstrated in the manuscript. Therefore, we have provided an additional figure to show the original expression on the stacked Stereo-seq slices and 3D live image compared to the expression from zSTEP, and the results indicate that zSTEP provides better, more continuous expression patterns. We still have two remaining tasks that are expected to be completed within the next month. We hope our responses have address the concerns raised by the reviewer, and we are pleased to provide any additional proof as needed.

Major Comments:

1. Lines 66-68: Discuss the limitations of existing tools and explicitly state the advantages of using Palette.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestion. We have added the following new texts after line 68 to emphasize the features and advantages of Palette.

"Newly developed tools are committed to integrating bulk and/or scRNA-seq data with ST data to enhance spatial resolution, focusing on expression at the spot level. However, gene expression patterns are closely correlated to the biological functions and are more critical for understanding biological processes. Therefore, a tool focusing on inferring spatial gene expression patterns would be desirable."

1. Body Pattern Genes Analysis: For both Drosophila and Danio rerio, it would be valuable to examine body pattern genes in Stereo-Seq and apply Palette to determine if the resolution of the segments improves or merges. The resolution of the A-P axis is convincing, but further evidence for other segments would be beneficial.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the suggestions. For the Drosophila data, we only used two adjacent slices for Palette performance assessment, and thus were only able to evaluate the expression patterns within the slice.

For the zebrafish data, although we have construct zSTEP as a 3D transcriptomic atlas, we have to admit that the left-right (LR) and dorsal-ventral (DV) patterning is not satisfactory enough. Here we show a section from the dorsal part of 16 hpf zSTEP that displays a relatively well-defined left-right pattern (Fig. 2). Along the left-right axis, the notochord cells are centrally located, flanked by somite cells on either side, with the outermost cells being pronephros.

One reason for the limited LR and DV patterning is that the original annotation of the ST data does not clearly distinguish all the cell types. Another reason is likely due to the disordered cell positions when stacking ST slices. Thus, our zSTEP is most suitable for investigating the AP patterns, while the performances on LR and DV patterns may not achieve the same level of accuracy.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Figure 2d: Include the A-P line for which the intensity profile was plotted in the main figure, rather than just in the supplementary material. Additionally, consider simplifying the plot by not combining three lines into one, as it complicates the interpretation of observations.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the helpful suggestions. We have updated Figure 2d and Figure S1b by adding a A-P line on each subfigure (Fig. 3). Additionally, as the reviewer suggested, we have separated the intensity plots so that each subfigure now includes a dedicated intensity plot along A-P axis.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Drosophila Data Analysis: While the alignment and validation of Danio rerio sections are clearly explained, the analysis and validation of Drosophila data are insufficiently detailed. Provide a more thorough explanation of how the intensity profiles between BDGP in situ data and Stereo-Seq data are adjusted.

Response: We thank the reviewer for raising this issue. To make the analysis procedure clearer, we have updated Figure 2a (Fig. 4) and added explanatory texts in the figure legends to describe the processing procedure for the Drosophila ST data.

See response letter for the figure.

Additionally, the following sentences have been added into the Methods section to describe the generation of the intensity profiles.

"The intensity plot profiles along AP axis were generated through the following steps: The expression pattern plot images or in situ hybridization images were imported into ImageJ and converted to grayscale. The colour was then inverted, and a line of a certain width (here set as 10) was drawn across from the anterior part to the posterior part (Fig. S1a). The signal intensities along the width of the line were measured and imported into R for generating intensity plots."

1. Figure 3d: Present a plot with the expected expression profiles of the three genes if the embryo is aligned as anticipated.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion, which improves the clarity of our manuscript. We have added the following subfigure in as Figure 3d (Fig. 5) to show the expected expression profiles of the three midline genes along left-right axis.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Analysis Without Palette: Between lines 277-438, the outcome of using Palette with bulk RNA-seq and Stereo-Seq is convincing. However, consider the following:

o What would be the observations if the analysis were conducted solely with Stereo-Seq data, without incorporating bulk RNA-seq data and employing Palette?

Response: We thank the reviewer for raising this important question. Here we show the comparison of ST expression on stacked Stereo-seq slices, ST expression projected on 3D live images, and the Palette-inferred expression (Fig. 6). The stacked ST slices do not fully reflect the zebrafish morphology, and the gene expression appears sparse, making it look massive (the first row). While after projecting ST expression onto the live image, the expression patterns can be observed on zebrafish morphology, but the expression is still sparsely distributed in spots (the second row). However, the expression patterns captured by Palette in zSTEP show more continuous expression patterns (the third row), which are more similar to the observations in in situ hybridization images (the fourth row). We are considering put these analyses into the supplementary figure.

See response letter for the figure.

o This study uses only Stereo-Seq as the spatial transcriptomics reference. It would strengthen the argument to use at least one other spatial transcriptomics method, such as Visium or MERFISH, in conjunction with bulk RNA-seq and Palette, to demonstrate whether Palette consistently improves gene expression resolution.

Response: We thank the reviewer for raising this professional question. To demonstrate a broad application of Palette, it would be necessary to test Palette performance using different types of ST references. We plan to perform extra analyses to evaluate Palette performance using Visium and MERFISH data as ST references, respectively. Additionally, our Palette pipeline only takes the overlapped genes for inference. As only hundreds of genes can be detected by MERFISH, Palette can only infer the expression patterns of these genes. As mentioned in the work of Liu et al. (2023), MERFISH can independently resolve distinct cell types and spatial structures, and thus we believe Palette will also show great performance when using MERFISH as ST reference. We've already started the analyses and expect to accomplish it within the next month. And we will update the analyses as separated tutorials to the GitHub repository.

Reference:

Liu, J. et al. Concordance of MERFISH spatial transcriptomics with bulk and single-cell RNA sequencing. Life Sci Alliance 6 (2023).

1. PDAC Data Analysis: Provide a more detailed explanation of the PDAC data analysis and use appropriate colors in the tissue images to clearly distinguish cell types.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the suggestions. We have updated the colours used in the tissue images to be consistent to the colours in tissue clustering analysis. Additionally, we have added an additional subfigure in supplementary figure (Fig. 7) with more explanatory texts in the figure legends to provide a more thorough explanation for the analysis.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Comparison with Other Methods: State the limitations of not using STitch3D and Spateo for alignment and explain why these methods were not employed.

Response: We thank the reviewer for raising this constructive comment. We fully agree with you that the introduction of published alignment algorithms would be helpful in our analysis. Currently, the slice alignment is adjusted manually, and thus the main limitation of not using these tools is that manual operation may induce bias compared to the alignment generated by computational algorithm. Unfortunately, STitch3D and Spateo are not included in this study because of two reasons. First, these two newly developed tools have been recently posted, and our analyses were largely completed before that. Therefore, we only mentioned these tools in the Discussion section. Second, we do not want to embed too many external tools into our analysis, which may increase the difficulties for researchers' operation. Specifically, STitch3D and Spateo are configured to run in Python environment, while Palette is based on R packages. Moreover, without these tools, our current manual alignment also achieves desired performance. However, we value this enlightening suggestion by the reviewer and therefore plan to further compare the performance of manual alignment versus the mentioned two alignment tools. At present, we have a preliminary comparison scheme and collected relevant datasets. Hopefully, we will complete this analysis within the next 1 to 2 weeks.

Minor Comments:

1. References: Add references to the statements in lines 51-53.

Response: We thank the reviewer for reminding us of the missing references. We have added the works of Junker et al. (2014), Liu et al. (2022), Chen et al. (2022), Wang et al. (2022), Shi et al. (2023) and Satija et al. (2015) as references in line 53 as follows.

"Thus, great efforts are ongoing to construct gene expression maps of these models with higher resolution, depth, and comprehensiveness1-6."

References:

1. Junker, J.P. et al. Genome-wide RNA Tomography in the zebrafish embryo. Cell 159, 662-675 (2014).
2. Liu, C. et al. Spatiotemporal mapping of gene expression landscapes and developmental trajectories during zebrafish embryogenesis. Dev Cell 57, 1284-1298 e1285 (2022).
3. Chen, A. et al. Spatiotemporal transcriptomic atlas of mouse organogenesis using DNA nanoball-patterned arrays. Cell 185, 1777-1792 e1721 (2022).
4. Wang, M. et al. High-resolution 3D spatiotemporal transcriptomic maps of developing Drosophila embryos and larvae. Dev Cell 57, 1271-1283 e1274 (2022).
5. Shi, H. et al. Spatial atlas of the mouse central nervous system at molecular resolution. Nature 622, 552-561 (2023).
6. Satija, R. et al. Spatial reconstruction of single-cell gene expression data. Nature biotechnology 33, 495-502 (2015)

1. Scientific Name Consistency: Ensure consistency in using either "Danio rerio" or "zebrafish" throughout the manuscript.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We have changed "Danio rerio" to "zebrafish" to make "zebrafish" consistent throughout the manuscript.

1. Related References: Include the following relevant references:

o https://academic.oup.com/bib/article/25/4/bbae316/7705532

o https://www.life-science-alliance.org/content/6/1/e202201701

Response: We thank the reviewer for bringing these two relevant works to us. Baul et al. (2024) presented STGAT leveraging Graph Attention Networks for integrating spatial transcriptomics and bulk RNA-seq, and Liu et al. (2023) demonstrated the concordance of MERFISH ST with bulk and single-cell RNA-seq. Both are excellent works and relevant to our work. We have added these two references in line 61 and line 68, respectively.

References:

Baul, S. et al. Integrating spatial transcriptomics and bulk RNA-seq: predicting gene expression with enhanced resolution through graph attention networks. Brief Bioinform 25 (2024).

Liu, J. et al. Concordance of MERFISH spatial transcriptomics with bulk and single-cell RNA sequencing. Life Sci Alliance 6 (2023).

1. Figure 1a: In the Venn diagram, include the number of genes in the bulk and Stereo-Seq datasets, as well as the number of overlapping genes.

Response: We thank the reviewer reminding us to include these important numbers. And in our current manuscript, we have added the following sentences in the Methods section to provide the gene numbers (Fig. 8). While the Venn diagram in Figure 1a serves as a schematic representation, so we did not include the gene numbers, as these may vary depending on the actual data.

"Palette was performed on the aligned slices using the overlapped genes. For the 10 hpf embryo, there were 24,658 genes in the bulk data, 18,698 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 16,601 overlapped genes. For the 12 hpf embryo, there were 23,018 genes in the bulk data, 18,948 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 16,401 overlapped genes. For the 16 hpf embryo, there were 24,357 genes in the bulk data, 23,110 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 19,539 overlapped genes."

See response letter for the figure.

1. Figure 1 Improvement: Enlarge Figure 1 and reduce repetitive elements, such as parts of the deconvolution and Figure 1b.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the helpful suggestion. We agree with the reviewer that the deconvolution sections appear repetitive. We have updated Figure 1 (Fig. 9) by replacing these repetitive elements with a clearer and simpler diagram.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Figure 3f: Explain the black discontinuous line in the plot.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the reminder. We are sorry about the lack of the explanation. We have added the below explanation for the black discontinuous line in the legend of Figure 3 (Fig. 10) as follows.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Line 610: State the percentage of unpaired imaging spots.

Response: We thank the review for the reminder. We are sorry about not including the paired and unpaired spot number. We have added the number of paired spots with the percentage in the total spots in the Method section as follows.

"The numbers of mapped spots for the 10 hpf, 12 hpf and 16 hpf embryos are 15,379 (69.4% of the total spots), 14,697 (70.5% of the total spots) and 21,605 (77.2% of the total spots), respectively."

1. Lines 616-618: Specify the unit for the spot diameter.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the reminder. Again, we are sorry about not including the spot diameter information in our previous version of manuscript. We have added the spot diameter in Method section as follows.

"In the Stereo-seq data, each spot contained 15 × 15 DNA nanoball (DNB) spots (The diameter of each spot is near 10 μm)."

Reviewer #1 (Significance):

This algorithm will be useful not only for the field of developmental biology but also for wider applications in spatial omics. Although I have expertise in spatial omics technology development, my understanding of computational biology is limited, which restricts my ability to fully evaluate the Palette algorithm presented in this paper.

Response: We thank the reviewer for recognizing our work, and we greatly appreciate the constructive suggestions from the reviewer. Although the reviewer acknowledged limited expertise in computational biology, the comments from the reviewer are highly professional and valuable. Following the suggestions from the reviewer, we have not only included more explanatory texts and figures to make the analysis procedures clearer and more understandable, but also supplemented the important parameters that were missing in our previous manuscript. We also provided extra figure to demonstrate the improvements of zSTEP on gene expression patterns. We believe that our work is now more scientific and more understandable, and we will continue working to solve the remaining issues as planned. We express our thanks for the reviewer again.

Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

The authors of the study introduce the Palette method, a novel approach designed to infer spatial gene expression patterns from bulk RNA-sequencing (RNA-seq) data. This method is complemented by the development of the DreSTEP 3D spatial gene expression atlas of zebrafish embryos, establishing a comprehensive resource for visualizing gene expression and investigating spatial cell-cell interactions in developmental biology.

Response: We sincerely appreciate the reviewer's positive feedback on our Palette pipeline and the zSTEP 3D spatial expression atlas of zebrafish embryos. We also thank the reviewer for the professional comments and constructive suggestions. The reviewer raised the concerns from the aspect of algorithm design and computational biology, which we did not address well in our previous manuscript. We agree with the reviewer that we did not clarify the selection criteria of the parameters in detail, and we are now working on the additional analyses to address this issue.

We also agree with the reviewer that we did not provide enough discussion of the strategies used in the pipeline, the features of Palette and the application scenarios of Palette and zSTEP. For wide use of our tools, it is significantly important to state these aspects. In this revised version, we have added more paragraphs in the Discussion section to address this issue. Additionally, we acknowledge that we did not adequately demonstrate the computational efficacy and computational requirements, which are important for researchers. We are also working on the additional analyses to address this issue.

Finally, we thank the reviewer again for the professional and constructive suggestions. These suggestions are addressable, and by following them, we believe our manuscript will see a significant improvement, especially in the Palette pipeline part, making the pipeline more rigorous and easier to access. We are confident that we can complete the planned additional tasks within the next 1-2 months.

1. The efficacy of the Palette method may be compromised by its dependency on the quality of the reference spatial transcriptomics data. As highlighted in the study, variations in data quality can lead to significant challenges in reconstructing accurate spatial expression patterns from bulk data. This underscores the necessity of evaluating quality parameters, such as the number of gene detections and spatial resolution, to ensure reliable outcomes. Additional studies should rigorously assess how these quality factors influence the accuracy and efficiency of the algorithm in various data contexts, particularly under diverse conditions of gene detection.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. We agree with the reviewer that the quality of the reference ST data may greatly influence the performance and efficacy of the Palette, and we have added paragraphs in the Discussion section to further discuss the impact of ST data quality on Palette performance. As mentioned by the reviewer, gene detections and spatial resolution are two important parameters that can influence the Palette performance. Low gene detection may impact the clustering process, making the cell types of spots not distinguished well. To evaluate the performance of Palette when ST data shows low gene detection, we plan to applied Palette using MERFISH data as the ST reference, which only captures hundreds of genes. Moreover, we will also investigate the impact of spatial resolution on Palette performance by merging ST spots to simulate lower resolution scenarios, as well as the impact of gene detection by randomly reducing detected genes. Through the comparison among the inferred expression patterns with ST data of different spatial resolutions or different numbers of detected genes, we can better access the performance of Palette and provide guidance to researchers on the appropriate ST data requirements for optimal performance. These analyses will take another one month to accomplish after this round of revision due to the limited response time.

1. The methodology raises pertinent questions regarding how the clustering results from different algorithms may affect the reconstructions by the Palette method. The authors would better provide a detailed discussion/comparison of clustering processes that optimize the reconstruction of spatial patterns, ensuring precision in the downstream analyses.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the constructive comments. We agree with the reviewer that the differences in clustering results would impact the inference of the Palette. In our Palette pipeline, rather than develop a new methodology for clustering, we employ the BayesSpace for spot clustering, which considers both spot transcriptional similarity and neighbouring structure for clustering. In this case, researchers may adjust the parameters in the BayesSpace package to achieve optimal clustering results. Actually, in most cases, the spot identities were achieved through UMAP analysis, which only considers the transcriptional differences but does not consider the spatial information. This kind of clustering strategy will potentially lead to an intricate arrangement of spots belonging to different clusters, and may result in sparse gene expression in Palette outcome, which is different from the patterns in bona fide tissues. Therefore, a suitable clustering strategy will definitely help capture the local patterns.

Moreover, our Palette pipeline also can use the clustering results from the tissue histomorphology. Using tissue histomorphology for clustering would be a good choice, as it is closer to the real case. The following Figure (Fig. 11) displays the Palette performance on PDAC datasets using both spatial clustering and histomorphology clustering strategies. The result using histomorphology clustering captures the weak pattern (indicated by the red circle) that were missed when using the spatial clustering (Fig. 11d).

See response letter for the figure.

1. The choice to utilize only highly expressed genes in the initial stages of the Palette algorithm also warrants further exploration. Addressing the criteria for determining which genes qualify as "highly expressed" and outlining robust cutoff will enhance the algorithm's rigor and applicability. Similarly, in the iterative estimation of gene expression across spatial spots, establishing optimal iteration conditions is crucial. Implementing a loss function may offer a systematic method for concluding iterations, thus refining computational efficiency.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the professional suggestions. As pointed out by the reviewer, the selection of highly expressed genes and the iteration times are two important parameters in our pipeline. The definition of highly expressed genes and the number of highly expressed genes are important for achieving a satisfactory clustering performance. We tested the impact of different numbers of highly expressed genes on cluster performance in our preliminary analyses, while we did not summarize these tests and specify the parameters. Therefore, we plan to include a supplementary figure showing the clustering performances under different definitions of highly expressed genes and different numbers of highly expressed genes. Additionally, for the iteration conditions, we have tested different iteration numbers to find out a suitable iteration number to achieve a stable expression in each spot. The following figure (Fig. 1) shows the results after performing Palette with different iteration times. We randomly selected 20 cells and compared their expression across tests with varying iteration times. The results indicate that for a ST dataset with 819 spots, the expression in each spot becomes nearly stable after 5000 iteration times. We previously did not consider the computational efficiency, while here the reviewer raises a valuable and professional suggestion to implement a loss function to determine the optimal number of iterations. We greatly appreciate this suggestion, and plan to apply a loss function to summarize the optimal iteration times for ST datasets of different sizes. This will provide guidance for potential researchers in selecting iteration times and enhance computational efficiency.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Performance metrics relating to processing speed and computational demands remain inadequately addressed in the current framework. Understanding how the Palette method scales across varying gene counts and bulk RNA-seq datasets will be essential for potential applications in larger biological contexts. Notably, the quantitative demands of analyzing 20,000 genes when processing 10, 100, or 1,000 bulk RNA profiles must be articulated to guide researchers in planning accordingly.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this valuable and professional suggestion. In our previous analyses, we did not consider the computation efficiency, processing speed and computational demands, which are important information for potential researchers. To address this issue, we will list our computer configuration first. And under this configuration, we plan to run Palette on datasets with different numbers of overlapped genes or ST references with varying spot numbers, and then summarize the running times into a metrics table. This will help researchers estimate the running time for their datasets and guide them in planning the analyses. We will begin the analyses soon and expect to complete the analysis within the next 1 to 2 months.

Minor opinions:

1. Despite the promising advances offered by the zebrafish 3D reconstruction, there is a lack of details regarding numbers of the spatial transcriptomics (ST) data utilized, and the number of bulk RNA-seq data employed in the analyses. These parameters need to be clarified.

Response: We thank the reviewer for reminding us of these parameters. We are sorry for not including these parameters in our previous manuscript. We have now included the numbers of bulk, ST and overlap genes in the Methods section as follows (Fig. 12).

"Palette was performed on the aligned slices using the overlapped genes. For the 10 hpf embryo, there were 24,658 genes in the bulk data, 18,698 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 16,601 overlapped genes. For the 12 hpf embryo, there were 23,018 genes in the bulk data, 18,948 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 16,401 overlapped genes. For the 16 hpf embryo, there were 24,357 genes in the bulk data, 23,110 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 19,539 overlapped genes."

See response letter for the figure.

1. Issues regarding spatial cell-cell communication, especially concerning interactions over longer distances, necessitate careful consideration. Introducing spatial distance constraints could help formulate more realistic models of cellular interactions, a vital aspect of embryonic development.

Response: We thank the reviewer for this essential comment. We agree with the reviewer that the spatial distance is an essential factor to investigate in vivo cell-cell communication during embryonic development. Therefore, in our analyses, we employed CellChat for spatial cell-cell communication analysis, which can be used to infer and visualize spatial cell-cell communication network for ST datasets, considering the spatial distance as constrains of the computed communication probability. However, during our analyses, we observed that there were interactions between cell types over longer distances, as mentioned by the reviewer. We then investigated how these interactions of longer distances occurred. Here, we show the FGF interaction between tail bud and neural crest cells from our spatial cell-cell analysis as an example, and the distance between these two cell types appears quite significant (Fig. 13). We labelled tail bud cells and neural crest cells on the selected midline section and observed that, although most neural crest cells are distributed anteriorly, a small number of neural crest cells are located at tail, close to the tail bud cells. Therefore, the observed interaction between tail bud and neural crest cells is likely due to their adjacent distribution in the tail region, while the anteriorly distributed of neural crest spot in spatial cell-cell communication analysis reflects the anterior positioning of most neural crest cells. As a result, the distances shown on the spatial cell-cell communication analysis are not the real distance between two cell types.

In most cases in our spatial cell-cell communication analyses, the observed interactions over longer distances are likely influenced by this visualization strategy. Additionally, pre-processing the dataset may enhance the performance of the analyses. Here we performed systematic analyses of the entire embryo, which can make the interactions between cell types appear massive. To investigate specific biological questions, researchers can subset cell types of interest or categorize them into different subtypes based on their positions.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Evaluation metrics such as the Adjusted Rand Index (ARI) and Root Mean Square Error (RMSE) represent critical tools for systematically measuring the similarity of inferred spatial patterns, yet their specific application within this context should be elaborated.

Response: We thank the reviewer for recommending these two tools. We have applied them to evaluate the similarity between the expression patterns (Fig. 14). The inclusion of these statistical values makes our comparisons of expression patterns more scientific and convincing. And we have added the following texts in the Methods section to describe the calculation of these two values.

"The Adjusted Rand Index (ARI) and Root Mean Square Error (RMSE) were used to evaluate the similarity of the expression patterns. The expression patterns of in situ hybridization images were considered as the expected values, and the expression patterns of ST data and inferred expression patterns were compared to the expected values. Common positions along the AP axis within all three expression profiles were used, and the RMSE were calculated based on the scaled intensity of these positions. Values greater than the threshold were set to 1; otherwise, they were set to 0, and the ARI was then calculated based on the intensity category. Higher ARI and lower RMSE indicate greater similarity."

See response letter for the figure.

1. The study's limitations surrounding ST data quality cannot be overstated. Discussing scenarios where only limited or poor-quality ST data are available will be crucial for guiding future studies. Furthermore, a clear explanation of how enhanced specificity and accuracy translate into tangible biological insights is essential for demystifying the underlying mechanisms driving developmental processes.

Response: We thank the reviewer for raising this essential suggestion. We have realized that in our previous manuscript, our discussion on the advantages and limitations of Palette and zSTEP was neither broad nor detailed enough.

Therefore, in our revised manuscript, we have added the following paragraphs to further discuss the advantages and limitations of Palette and zSTEP, as well as the potential application of zSTEP in developmental biology.

In this section, we have emphasized again the impact of ST data quality on the performance of Palette and zSTEP, and then compared Palette with the strategy that uses well-established marker genes to infer spatial information. We demonstrated that although Palette cannot achieve single cell resolution, it captures the major expression patterns, which are closely correlated to biological functions and critical for embryonic development. Furthermore, we further discussed that zSTEP is not only a valuable tool for investigating gene expression patterns, but also has the potential in evaluating the reaction-diffusion model to investigate the complicated and well-choreographed pattern formation during embryonic development.

As here we have provided a more comprehensive discussion about Palette and zSTEP, we think that the potential researchers will better understand the application scenarios of our inference pipeline and our datasets. We hope our study can assist and inspire further research in the field of spatial transcriptomics and developmental biology.

"Thirdly, the performance of Palette and zSTEP heavily relied on the quality of ST data. If the quality of ST data is not of sufficient quality, the low-expression genes may not be detected or only appear in very few scattered spots, and the performance of spot clustering could also be affected. Moreover, in this study, for example, the Stereo-seq data of 12 hpf zebrafish embryo had fewer slices on the right side (Fig. S3b), resulting in more blank spots in the right part of zSTEP for the 12 hpf embryo. However, with the ongoing advancements in spatial resolution and data quality, the performance of Palette is expected to be enhanced and demonstrate even greater potential for analysing spatiotemporal gene expression.

On the other hand, compared to the brilliant strategy that infers spatial information of scRNA-seq data from well-established genes, our Palette pipeline cannot achieve single cell resolution. However, our Palette pipeline is based on the ST reference, and thus preserves the real positional relationships between spots. Furthermore, the focus of our pipeline is to infer the gene expression patterns, which are closely correlated to biological functions and critical for embryonic development, rather than the sparse expression within individual spots. In this regard, our Palette pipeline can be advantageous, as it allows for reconstruction of the major expression profiles, which are often more relevant for understanding developmental processes. Additionally, our Palette can be applied to serial sections, enabling the construction of 3D ST atlas.

Finally, while the current analyses demonstrated that zSTEP can serve as a valuable tool for identifying genes having specific patterns at certain developmental stages, the exploration of zSTEP is still limited. During animal development, pattern formation is always one of the most important developmental issues. As demonstrated by the reaction-diffusion (RD) model, morphogen molecules are produced at specific regions of the embryo, forming morphogen gradients to guide cell specification, while interactions between different morphogens instruct more complicated and well-choreographed pattern formation. Our Palette constructed zSTEP, as a comprehensive transcriptomic expression pattern during development, could be leveraged to evaluate and prove the RD model during development, including AP patterning. Moreover, the investigation of gene expression patterns should not be limited to morphogens and TFs, and further investigation of their roles in AP patterning is desirable. Additionally, here a random forest model may be sufficient for investigating the most essential morphogens and TFs for AP axis refinement, while more sophisticated machine learning models may be required for addressing more specific biological questions."

Reviewer #2 (Significance):

The Palette pipeline demonstrates a marked improvement in specificity and accuracy when predicting spatial gene expression patterns. Evaluative studies on Drosophila and zebrafish datasets affirm its enhanced performance compared to existing methodologies. By effectively reconstructing spatial information from bulk transcriptomic data, the Palette method innovatively merges the philosophy of leveraging single-cell transcriptomic data for deconvolution analyses. This integration is pivotal, advancing traditional bulk RNA-seq approaches while laying the groundwork for future research.

One of the notable achievements in this work is the construction of the DreSTEP atlas, which integrates serial bulk RNA-seq data with advanced 3D imaging techniques. This resource grants researchers unprecedented access to the visualization of gene expression patterns across the zebrafish embryo, facilitating the investigation of spatial relationships and cell-cell interactions critical for developmental processes. Such capabilities are invaluable for understanding the intricate dynamics of embryogenesis and the distinct roles of individual cell types.

Response: We thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation of our work, either the Palette pipeline or zSTEP. The reviewer has strong expertise in algorithm development and computational biology, and the concerns and suggestions from the reviewer are significantly precious and valuable for us. Regarding the bioinformatics tool development, we did not have extensive experiences, and thus we did not thoroughly address the selection criteria or clarify the parameters used in the pipeline, which may influence the application by other researchers. Therefore, we sincerely appreciate the professional suggestions from the reviewer, which we can follow to address these issues, improve our manuscript and make our work more impactful for researchers. Additionally, we did not consider computation efficiency, processing speed and computational demands, which would be important factors for other researchers to use Palette. We would like to add extra analyses to address these aspects.

Currently, based on the suggestions from the reviewer, we have added extra texts discussing the clustering strategy in Palette pipeline, the advantages and limitations of Palette, and the potential application of zSTEP in developmental biology. We believe that readers will now have a clearer understanding of the performance of Palette and the application scenarios of both Palette and zSTEP. We have not fully addressed the comments raised by the reviewer yet, while we are working on the planned additional analyses and expect to complete all these tasks within the next 1-2 months. We sincerely thank the reviewer for the professional and valuable suggestions, which definitely improve our work and will make it accessible for a wide range of researchers.

Finally, through this review process, we have learned a lot about the important considerations and requirements when designing bioinformatics tools, and we benefit a lot from the thoughtful guidance. We express our thanks to the reviewer again for the guidance, and we will try our best to address the remaining issues to further improve our manuscript.

Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity):

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

In this study, Dong and colleagues developed a computational pipeline to use spatial transcriptomics (ST) datasets as a reference to infer the spatial patterns of gene expression from bulk RNA sequencing data. This approach aims to overcome the low read depth and limited gene detection capabilities in current ST datasets, while exploiting its ability to provide highly resolved spatial information. By combining bulk RNA-seq datasets from 3 developmental stages during early zebrafish development with previously available ST and imaging datasets, the authors build DreSTEP (Danio rerio spatiotemporal expression profiles). Using this approach, they go on to identify the morphogens and transcription factors involved in anteroposterior patterning.

The paper is well written, and the pipeline presented in this study is likely to be useful beyond the case studies included in this study. There are a few questions that, in my view, would be important to clarify to increase the impact of this work:

Response: We sincerely appreciate the positive feedback from the reviewer on the Palette pipeline and zebrafish spatiotemporal expression profiles zSTEP. We thank the reviewer for the constructive suggestions, which have inspired us to think deeply about application and advantages of Palette and zSTEP for future studies.

We fully agree with the reviewer that we do not sufficiently clarify the advantages and limitations of our inference pipeline in the original manuscript. The questions raised by the reviewer are very insightful. For example, while the inference expression patterns may closely resemble the in situ hybridization observation, which we consider as good performance, the reviewer pointed out that we should consider whether weak, yet real expression may have been removed. These questions have motivated us to think more deeply about the underlying principles and assumptions of our inference pipeline. Following the reviewer's questions, we have expanded our discussion on the application of zSTEP in developmental biology and the features of Palette compared to the existing strategies.

We believe that after incorporating the revisions, our current manuscript now demonstrates the application scenario of Palette clearer and suggested the application of zSTEP for investigating biological questions in developmental biology. We are grateful for the reviewer's guidance, which helps us increase the impact of our work.

1. The authors mention that they used a variable factor to adjust expression differences between the ST and bulk RNA-seq datasets. It would be important for the authors to comment on how much overlap in gene expression is necessary between the datasets for an accurate calculation of this variable factor? Can this be directly tested, for instance, by testing how their conclusions vary if expression is adjusted by a variable factor calculated from only a smaller set of genes?

Response: We thank the reviewer for the professional questions. We are sorry about not including the gene numbers in our previous manuscript. And now we have provided the numbers of genes in bulk and ST data and the numbers of the overlapped genes (Fig. 15).

"Palette was performed on the aligned slices using the overlapped genes. For the 10 hpf embryo, there were 24,658 genes in the bulk data, 18,698 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 16,601 overlapped genes. For the 12 hpf embryo, there were 23,018 genes in the bulk data, 18,948 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 16,401 overlapped genes. For the 16 hpf embryo, there were 24,357 genes in the bulk data, 23,110 genes in the Stereo-seq data, and 19,539 overlapped genes."

See response letter for the figure.

For Palette implementation, we took all the overlapped genes. To calculate the variable factor, we aggregated the expression of each gene in the ST data, and then used the expression of the bulk data to divide the aggregated expression for variable factor calculation. As a result, each overlapped gene was assigned a variable factor to adjust its expression, based on its difference between bulk and ST data. The rationale behind this approach is that by considering the ST data as a whole, we can effectively reduce the variations among individual spots. This allows the variable factors to provide reasonable adjustment to gene expression.

Above all, the variable factors can be directly calculated. Currently Palette only can infer the expression patterns of overlapped genes. It means when the number of overlapped genes is small, such as MERFISH only detecting hundreds of genes, Palette can only infer the expression patterns of these genes. However, if the MERFISH data have good quality, which enable resolving distinct cell types, we believe Palette will also show good performance when using MERFISH as ST reference. Additionally, we plan to perform Palette using MERFISH as ST reference to further demonstrate its broad application when using different ST references.

1. Palette gives rise to highly spatially precise patterns, which closely match those found in ISH. However, the smoothening of the expression can also remove weak, yet real, local expression patterns, as shown for idgf6 in Fig. 2a. Can the authors test this more extensively for other genes?

Response: We thank the reviewer for this essential question. We agree with the reviewer that weak, yet real expression might be removed in our Palette inference pipeline. The weak, sparse expression may be due to the ST technique itself or the variations in samples. However, that sparse gene expression may not have biological meaning, and the focus of our pipeline in to capture the expression patterns, which are closely correlated with functions and crucial for embryonic development. Therefore, our algorithm considers spot characteristics and emphasize cluster-specific expression, resulting in spatial-specific expression patterns. In most cases, the main gene expression patterns can be captured, which can help understand gene functions and roles in embryonic development. We have updated Supplementary Figure S1a (Fig. 16) to include more gene patterns to demonstrate this point.

See response letter for the figure.

1. Using adjacent slices for ST and "bulk RNA-seq" may provide better results than those obtained when comparing two independent datasets. Could the authors also extend the analysis of Palette's functionalities by using separate, previously available but independent datasets, for ST and bulk RNA-seq in Drosophila as well?

Response: We thank the reviewer for the valuable question. We agree with the reviewer that using adjacent slices may provide better results. The idea here is that the inferred spatial expression patterns from pseudo bulk RNA-seq can be used to compare with the real expression of ST to evaluate Palette performance. We have updated our Figure 2a (Fig. 17) to illustrate the analysis clearer.

See response letter for the figure.

To demonstrate the Palette's functionalities, we have used Palette to infer zebrafish bulk RNA-seq slice (Junker et al., 2014) using Stereo-seq slice (Liu et al., 2022) as ST reference, and these two datasets are separate and independent. We agree with the reviewer that it would be good to use separate datasets to test in Drosophila to further demonstrate the Palette's functionalities. However, unfortunately, we did not find the Drosophila serial bulk RNA-seq data along left-right axis of the corresponding stages, and thus we might be unable to perform the extra analyses using independent Drosophila datasets.

References:

Junker, J.P. et al. Genome-wide RNA Tomography in the zebrafish embryo. Cell 159, 662-675 (2014).

Liu, C. et al. Spatiotemporal mapping of gene expression landscapes and developmental trajectories during zebrafish embryogenesis. Dev Cell 57, 1284-1298 e1285 (2022).

1. The DreSTEP analysis in zebrafish embryos is interesting and validates well-established observations in the field. Can the authors also discuss whether and how their dataset allows them to refine our understanding of the spatial or temporal pattern of the morphogens and TFs involved in AP patterning? This would further validate their approach.

Response: We appreciate the reviewer for recognition of our zSTEP and raising this valuable question, which has inspired us to think more deeply about the potential application of zSTEP in developmental biology. As the reviewer noted, our zSTEP analyses have validated well-established observations in the field. Rather than focusing on the sparse expression detected in ST data, zSTEP emphasizes the gene expression patterns that are closely correlated with biological functions and critical for embryonic development. Therefore, zSTEP can serve as a valuable tool for identifying the genes having specific patterns at certain developmental stages.

Pattern formation is one of the most important developmental issues for all animals. The reaction-diffusion (RD) model is a widely recognized theoretical framework used to explain self-regulated pattern formation in developing animal embryos (Kondo & Miura, 2010). Morphogen molecules are produced at specific regions of the embryo, forming morphogen gradients to guide cell specification. Most importantly, interactions between different morphogens instruct more complicated and well-choreographed pattern formation. Our Palette-constructed zSTEP provides a comprehensive transcriptomic expression pattern, including all morphogens and TFs, across the whole embryo during development. These valuable resources, in our opinion, could be leveraged to evaluate and prove the RD model during development, including AP patterning. In our current zSTEP analyses, we have already identified genes that exhibit specific expression patterns along AP axis, some of which have not been fully characterized. These genes could be potential targets for further investigation into their roles in AP patterning, although they are not the primary focus of this study. Additionally, our analyses only focused on morphogens and TFs, but zSTEP can be used to investigate the expression patterns of other genes as well. Moreover, we employed a random forest model to investigate the most essential morphogens and TFs for AP axis refinement, which is one of the basic applications of zSTEP. To investigate specific biological questions of interest, it would be worth exploring the use of more sophisticated machine learning models.

We have added the following paragraph in the Discussion section to discuss the potential application of zSTEP in future studies.

"Finally, while the current analyses demonstrated that zSTEP can serve as a valuable tool for identifying genes having specific patterns at certain developmental stages, the exploration of zSTEP is still limited. During animal development, pattern formation is always one of the most important developmental issues. As demonstrated by the reaction-diffusion (RD) model, morphogen molecules are produced at specific regions of the embryo, forming morphogen gradients to guide cell specification, while interactions between different morphogens instruct more complicated and well-choreographed pattern formation. Our Palette constructed zSTEP, as a comprehensive transcriptomic expression pattern during development, could be leveraged to evaluate and prove the RD model during development, including AP patterning. Moreover, the investigation of gene expression patterns should not be limited to morphogens and TFs, and further investigation of their roles in AP patterning is desirable. Additionally, here a random forest model may be sufficient for investigating the most essential morphogens and TFs for AP axis refinement, while more sophisticated machine learning models may be required for addressing more specific biological questions."

Reference

Kondo, S. & Miura, T. Reaction-Diffusion model as a framework for understanding biological pattern formation. Science 329, 1616-1620 (2010).

1. Can the authors comment on the limits of this inference pipeline? And how it performs as compared to single-cell RNA sequencing datasets where spatial information is inferred from well-established marker genes?

Response: We appreciate the reviewer for this insightful question, which has inspired us to further explore the advantages and limitations of the Palette pipeline in comparison with other inference strategies. As mentioned in the Discussion section, a key limitation of the inference pipeline is its heavy reliance on the quality of ST data. It is obvious that if the quality of ST data is not of sufficient quality, the low-expression genes may not be detected or only appear in very few scattered spots. We think it is a common issue for any inference tools using ST data as the reference. However, with the ongoing advancements in spatial resolution and data quality, the performance of Palette is expected to be improved.

As a comparison, the single-cell RNA sequencing datasets where spatial information is inferred from well-established marker genes do not face this limitation. The ground-breaking work by Satija et al. (2015) used such a strategy that combined scRNA-seq and in situ hybridizations of well-established marker genes to infer spatial location, enabling single cell resolution, as it maintains the high read depth and gene detection. One advantages of this scRNA-seq-based strategy is that it provides the transcriptomics of individual cells, rather than a combination of cell within a ST spot, although the positional relationships between cells are not real.

However, compared to the inference from ST data, the positional relationships between cells are not directly captured. On the other hand, as the embryonic development progresses, more cell types will be specified, and the body patterning becomes more complex. In this scenario, using well-established marker gene to infer spatial information would be much more challenging. Additionally, there are not many scRNA-seq datasets of serial sections, and thus this strategy may not be used to construct 3D ST atlas.

In contrast, our Palette inference pipeline is based on the ST data, which preserves the real positional relationships between spots. Although our inference pipeline cannot achieve single cell resolution, it focuses on the gene expression patterns rather than the sparse expression within individual spots. By applying Palette to paired serial sections, we were able to generated a 3D spatial expression atlas of zebrafish embryos, which has showed promising performance for investigating gene expression patterns and their involvement in AP patterning.

Reference

Satija, R. et al. Spatial reconstruction of single-cell gene expression data. Nature biotechnology 33, 495-502 (2015)

We have updated the following paragraphs to further demonstrating the limitation of the inference pipeline in details in the Discussion section.

"Thirdly, the performance of Palette and zSTEP heavily relied on the quality of ST data. If the quality of ST data is not of sufficient quality, the low-expression genes may not be detected or only appear in very few scattered spots, and the performance of spot clustering could also be affected. Moreover, in this study, for example, the Stereo-seq data of 12 hpf zebrafish embryo had fewer slices on the right side (Fig. S3b), resulting in more blank spots in the right part of zSTEP for the 12 hpf embryo. However, with the ongoing advancements in spatial resolution and data quality, the performance of Palette is expected to be enhanced and demonstrate even greater potential for analysing spatiotemporal gene expression.

On the other hand, compared to the brilliant strategy that infers spatial information of scRNA-seq data from well-established genes, our Palette pipeline cannot achieve single cell resolution. However, our Palette pipeline is based on the ST reference, and thus preserves the real positional relationships between spots. Furthermore, the focus of our pipeline is to infer the gene expression patterns, which are closely correlated to biological functions and critical for embryonic development, rather than the sparse expression within individual spots. In this regard, our Palette pipeline can be advantageous, as it allows for reconstruction of the major expression profiles, which are often more relevant for understanding developmental processes. Additionally, our Palette can be applied to serial sections, enabling the construction of 3D ST atlas."

Reviewer #3 (Significance):

This study tackles an important challenge in biology - the difficult to resolve gene expression patterns with high spatial precision and in a high-throughput manner. By integrating sequencing datasets from previously published studies, as well as newly-generated datasets, the authors provide evidence that their novel inference pipeline enables them to obtain high-quality spatial information simply from bulk RNA-seq datasets, using ST as a reference. The development of this pipeline - Palette - is a major part of this manuscript and its applicability is validated using datasets from Drosophila and zebrafish embryos. This in an important advance for the field, but it would be nice for the authors to further comment on i) the validity of some of their approaches and how they may influence the quality of their inference, as well as, ii) potential pitfalls/limitations of this approach as compared to others available in the field. This would synthetize both previous and current findings into a conceptual and technological framework that would have a strong impact well beyond cell and developmental biology.

Audience: This study would be relevant for a broad audience of biologists, interested in morphogen signaling, gene regulatory networks and cell fate specification.

Expertise in zebrafish development, gastrulation, morphogen signaling and morphogenesis.

Response: We thank the reviewer for providing the positive feedback, arising these valuable questions, which have motivated us to deeply consider the design concept and further application of Palette and zSTEP. Based on the insightful questions from the reviewer, we have added two extra paragraphs in the Discussion section to further discuss the potential application of zSTEP in developmental biology and application scenarios of the Palette pipeline. Specially, we have demonstrated that the performance of the inference pipeline relies on the spatial resolution and data quality of the ST data. We have then compared the advantages and limitations of Palette with the existing brilliant spatial inference strategy, which infers spatial information of scRNA-seq from well-established marker genes. Although our inference pipeline cannot achieve single cell resolution, it can capture the major expression patterns, which are closely correlated to functions and critical for embryonic development. We believe this will help readers gain a clearer understanding of the advantage and limitations of our pipeline compared to other tools, as well as the tasks for which Palette and our constructed zSTEP can be utilized. We express our thanks to the reviewer again for the valuable comments.

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Referee #3

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

In this study, Dong and colleagues developed a computational pipeline to use spatial transcriptomics (ST) datasets as a reference to infer the spatial patterns of gene expression from bulk RNA sequencing data. This approach aims to overcome the low read depth and limited gene detection capabilities in current ST datasets, while exploiting its ability to provide highly resolved spatial information. By combining bulk RNAseq datasets from 3 developmental stages during early zebrafish development with previously available ST and imaging datasets, the authors build DreSTEP (Danio rerio spatiotemporal expression profiles). Using this approach, they go on to identify the morphogens and transcription factors involved in anteroposterior patterning.

The paper is well written, and the pipeline presented in this study is likely to be useful beyond the case studies included in this study. There are a few questions that, in my view, would be important to clarify to increase the impact of this work:

1. The authors mention that they used a variable factor to adjust expression differences between the ST and bulk RNAseq datasets. It would be important for the authors to comment on how much overlap in gene expression is necessary between the datasets for an accurate calculation of this variable factor? Can this be directly tested, for instance, by testing how their conclusions vary if expression is adjusted by a variable factor calculated from only a smaller set of genes?
2. Palette gives rise to highly spatially precise patterns, which closely match those found in ISH. However, the smoothening of the expression can also remove weak, yet real, local expression patterns, as shown for idgf6 in Fig. 2a. Can the authors test this more extensively for other genes?
3. Using adjacent slices for ST and "bulk RNAseq" may provide better results than those obtained when comparing two independent datasets. Could the authors also extend the analysis of Palette's functionalities by using separate, previously available but independent datasets, for ST and bulk RNAseq in Drosophila as well?
4. The DreSTEP analysis in zebrafish embryos is interesting and validates well-established observations in the field. Can the authors also discuss whether and how their dataset allows them to refine our understanding of the spatial or temporal pattern of the morphogens and TFs involved in AP patterning? This would further validate their approach.
5. Can the authors comment on the limits of this inference pipeline? And how it performs as compared to single-cell RNA sequencing datasets where spatial information is inferred from well-established marker genes?

Significance

This study tackles an important challenge in biology - the difficult to resolve gene expression patterns with high spatial precision and in a high-throughput manner. By integrating sequencing datasets from previously published studies, as well as newly-generated datasets, the authors provide evidence that their novel inference pipeline enables them to obtain high-quality spatial information simply from bulk RNAseq datasets, using ST as a reference. The development of this pipeline - Palette - is a major part of this manuscript and its applicability is validated using datasets from Drosophila and zebrafish embryos. This in an important advance for the field, but it would be nice for the authors to further comment on i) the validity of some of their approaches and how they may influence the quality of their inference, as well as, ii) potential pitfalls/limitations of this approach as compared to others available in the field. This would synthetize both previous and current findings into a conceptual and technological framework that would have a strong impact well beyond cell and developmental biology.

Audience: This study would be relevant for a broad audience of biologists, interested in morphogen signaling, gene regulatory networks and cell fate specification.

Expertise in zebrafish development, gastrulation, morphogen signaling and morphogenesis.

Note: This preprint has been reviewed by subject experts for Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

Learn more at Review Commons

Referee #1

Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

Summary:

The manuscript titled "Unravelling the Progression of the Zebrafish Primary Body Axis with Reconstructed Spatiotemporal Transcriptomics" presents a comprehensive analysis of the development of the primary body axis in zebrafish by integrating bulk RNA-seq, 3D images, and Stereo-Seq. The authors first clearly demonstrate the application of Palette for integrating RNA-seq and Stereo-Seq using published spatial transcriptomics data of Drosophila embryos. Subsequently, they produced serial bulk RNA-seq data for certain developmental stages of Danio rerio embryos and utilized published Stereo-Seq data. Through robust validation, the authors observe the molecular network involved in AP axis formation. While the authors show that integrating bulk RNA-seq data with Stereo-Seq improves spatial resolution, additional proof is required to demonstrate the extent of this improvement.

Major Comments: