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    1. Highly privileged people went to these universities as students, but they didn’t really attend classes, write papers, and take exams like college students today. Instead they acted as independent, though novice, scholars: they read everything they could find in their areas of interest, attended lectures that expert scholars gave, and, if they were lucky (and perhaps charming), got some feedback from those scholars on their own work or assisted scholars in theirs

      The fact that early university students did not have classes, assignments, or exams like contemporary students may surprise and intrigue a freshman. Rather, they were treated almost like novice scholars, reading, attending lectures by experts, and interacting directly with eminent intellectuals. This demonstrates how the role of students has completely changed over time and stands in stark contrast to the structured coursework of today.

    2. 89 percent of employers say that colleges and universities should place more emphasis on “the ability to effectively communicate orally and in writing.

      “Most employers almost 9 out of 10 think colleges should focus more on teaching students how to speak and write clearly.

    3. Research shows that deliberate practice—that is, close focus on improving one’s skills—makes all the difference in how one performs.

      This sentence introduces the idea of deliberate practice, highlighting the fact that intentional, focused work—rather than just producing more text—is what leads to better writing. This concept is used by the author to support the idea that students should continue honing their writing abilities in college, even if they already write a lot.

    1. What makes a complex line of thinking easy to follow? The tricks of cohesion and coherence, discussed in Chapter 6, are a big help. Williams and Bizup offer another key point. They explain that readers experience writing as clear when the “character” of a sentence is also its grammatical subject

      I find this super practical It’s basically teaching that every sentence should show the main actor and action clearly. I can see how using this makes technical writing way easier to read and understand. I need to practice this in my essays to avoid confusing readers.

    2. One approach that often leads to a difficult writing process and a clunky result is the pursuit of “academese”

      This is really helpful because it shows that professors don’t want complicated words just to sound smart. Using simple, clear language actually makes your ideas stronger. I sometimes overthink words to sound “fancy,” but this reminds me that clarity is more important than sounding scholarly.

    3. Focusing first or only on sentence-level issues is a troublesome approach.

      I like this because it reminds me that worrying too much about fancy sentences can actually hurt your writing. It makes sense that if your overall argument is strong, the sentences almost write themselves. It feels less stressful knowing I can fix sentence stuff after I have a solid plan.

    1. In 2008 we worried that:- It might become cheaper to live in a home.- Wall Street might shrink as a share of the economy.- The corrupt Big 3 automakers might get out of the way of well-run companies like Hyundai and TeslaThe Fed made more money to prevent this good outcome.
    2. For this reason, in the 2008 financial crisis, the Big Three automakers were bailed out, even though there were plenty of more efficiently run foreign companies happy to sell cars to Americans.

      Let me see if I got this right,

      The Car Companies were bailed out because if they could not pay back their debt it would cause a chain reaction. It wasn't just about the jobs disappearing and causing a chain reaction, it was the effect the bankruptcy would have on the banks balance sheets and how they would have to respond to said balance sheets.

    3. which can increase their paper profitability yet again without any improvement in the efficiency of real resource usage.

      This sounds like a Externality to me, a unaccounted effect on the human lived experience that does not show up int he money documents.

    4. This sort of opportunity would not exist if there were an adequate supply of potential entrepreneurs with access to capital.

      This seems like a loaded statement, let's break it down.

      If the laundromats were all independently owned this math would not work. The capacity to leverage oneself to buyout companies is a privilege of a specific caste.

      This reminds me of the story about how Pornhub (Mindgeek), being a tech company not a porn company, was a member of this specific caste. Pornhub, like youtube at the time, allowed anyone to upload whatever copyrighted material they wanted to share for free. This put the porn producing companies all out of business because no one bought their product since it was on Pornhub for free. As these porn producing companies went brankupt, Pornhub, with access to cheap debt was able to buy them all up.

    5. Housing is an informal part of what economists would call the money supply.

      Bro I have never seen this concept stated so bluntly. England, Australia, and Canada all have Housing Pricing affordability problems. That probably just means they are mindlessly printing money, which is part of Managed Decline

    6. Forgetting about down payments, suppose the effective rate of interest on a house is 20%. Then someone with a housing budget of $10,000 per year can afford a house priced at up to $50,000. But if the rate of interest goes down to 5%, then that person's leveraged purchasing power goes up to $200,000. Thus, as mortgage rates declined over time along with Treasury rates, the value of real estate increased over time.

      Yea trumps 50-year mortgages are probably going to mess with housing prices quite a bit. It's subsidizing the elites. I wonder why he decided to do that, do you have any idea why?

      Some ideas, * 50 year mortgages reduce monthly payments for working class home buyers, even thought the bank makes way more money * The USA is printing money and this is where some of it has to go * Boomers need exit liquidity, if home prices decide every boomer with a reverse mortgage is gonna end up without a home

    7. Medicaid, hospital care can be financially ruinous unless you have a "good job," which will usually be the kind of job one holds due not to competence but to class privilege

      I like to think that Blue Collar workers get healthcare in the United States. Do they not? Are there any info graphics or studies that illustrate who in America has what levels of health care coverage?

    8. If you are able to demonstrate dependency via unemployability, then you can access housing and food subsidies that are probably enough to live decently on if you are diligent and clever, though in practice bureaucrats might threaten you with withdrawal of those resources if you don't demonstrate a level of shame incompatible with economic prudence.

      What would an example of this "shame" bureaucrats might threaten the poors with?

    9. As debt increases over time, more resources are allocated on the basis not of cash profits, but of access to capital, i.e. ability to borrow (or issue stock) at low effective rates of interest.

      Robert Kiyosaki knows this game quite well and has leveraged himself to 1.2 Billion Dollars in debt.

      He likes to say, if you have a million dollar loan and can't pay it back, you have a problem, but if you have a billion dollar loan and can't pay it back, the bank has a problem.

    10. Instead, publicly traded corporations are able to pay more than private competitors for leases and talent and charge consumers less because they have access to cheap capital, and are optimizing not for profits, but for growth. In other words, their interest in expanding their business is not to increase total profits, but to increase total expenditures.

      Ohhh this right here is the real thesis, there is a caste of people with access to cheap capital and another caste of people without access to cheap capital. These different castes are playing different games but they both operate for survival in the same world.

      Do you agree with this interpretation of the text?

    11. In the old regime, they were accountable. In the new regime, they are instead asked to obey and conform, i.e. pass the Milgram and Asch tests respectively.

      There's a name for this trend. Atomization? What name would you give it?

    12. His daughter sees that her father's way of life is financially unsustainable, and also sees herself as only a financial burden to him, not a potentially productive asset.

      Modernity my dude, Modern Urban Living inverts the value of Children, on the farm Children were assets, in cities they are expenses.

      I have heard of Curtis Yarvin describe children in Urban settings basically functioning as "expensive furniture" in his Gray Mirror block, I can't find the exact one right now.

    13. A local entrepreneur I know tells me that a well-run coffee shop in a well-chosen location can pay for itself (recoup the initial investment) within a year, while an investor in the stock market is doing well if they double their money in nine years.

      This is a financial anecdote I have never heard of. Do you know how I can discover and make these kind of small business investments?

    14. The television series Thirteen Reasons Why is a story told within the frame of a high school student's audiocasette suicide note, which describes an experience of high school that was not preparing her to serve any useful function in society

      Not gonna lie, this description of the 13 Reasons Why has me sold on watching the show. I also felt like high school was not preparing her to serve any useful function in society.

      If what we learned in highschool was really that useful we would retain some of it, let's get some kids in their late 20's and provide them the exact same tests they did in highschool and see how they do on them.

      It's amazing how useful something like Home Ec would be to the average person compared to mindless Science and Math. I do consider "Science and Math" to the average person to be mindless pursuits because their lives after high school don't resonate with what they learned in school.

      If people spent as much time learning cooking, not nutrition out of a dam book but actual cooking and nutrition with food that you can actually eat, instead of the Periodic Table I bet Obesity would be less of a problem in the West.

    15. I was able to explain to Shawanna - and demonstrate by my failed attempt to have a conversation with Ann - that Ann can't listen to Shawanna, not because Shawanna is black, but because Ann can't listen to anything that might hold her accountable.

      Ah A Child, she is acting like a child

    16. But Ann's class performance rendered her in need of coddling, mentally incompetent to handle criticism.

      There has to be a name for this archetype of person, do you know what it might be?

    17. underwriting loans based on the kinds of fundamentals a bank might use before the existence of empiricist credit scores.

      Ancedotal thought, do we know how these credit score algorithms work? Like is there a reference design, design document, open source implementation out there so we can take a look inside the system.

      It would be interesting to use this "Open Source Implementation" with agent based modeling

    18. asked Ann whether she had considered designing an alternative system of credit on a for-profit basis - in other words, lending to formerly incarcerated people not because they are in need, but because they might be creditworthy. She didn't recognize that as an option, responded as though I had said she should not underwrite based on "risk" at all, and asserted without argument the moral superiority of credit unions over for-profit banks.

      Sounds like a business opportunity to me, compete with the money marts and other short term loan companies online. Leveraging the white listed ex criminals who did the financial literacy course and other "Social Credit" activities makes business sense.

    1. knowledge base of grassroots initiatives

      I feel like you can work on the wording here, like use the phrase knowledge base of grassroots initiatives in actual conversation with normal every day people.

    1. Good writers write to win. As such, rhetorical appeals underlie much of the successful persuasive writing in society, whether in the form of written arguments, television commercials, or educational campaigns. As previously discussed, some thoughtful, strategic anti-smoking campaigns have reduced smoking-related diseases and death. Additionally, Ariel Chernin, advertising researcher, observes that a large body of literature proves that food marketing affects children’s food preferences. Similarly, appealing to logos, pathos, ethos, and kairos in your persuasive writing can help you achieve your goals. Approaching rhetorical appeals from the inside out—from the perspective of the writer—one can note their effectiveness in persuasive writing, and one can write to win.

      I want to win and become a good writer and make people want to dig deeper into my stories and even have a bit of humor at the right times.

    2. Writers may employ several methods to appeal to pathos. Read “Pathos” to explore several suggestions which include: Referring to other emotionally compelling stories. Citing stark, startling statistics that will invoke a specific emotion in audience members. Showing empathy and/or understanding for an opposing view. Using humor, if appropriate.

      I like this idea because it makes the reader want to dive deeper into the story and make it actually interesting.

    3. Often times ads for medical products or even chewing gum might say that four out of five doctors/dentists recommend a certain product. Some commercials may even show a doctor in a white lab coat approving whatever is for sale. Now, provided that the person you are viewing is an actual doctor, this might be an example of a good ethos argument. On the other hand, if an automotive company uses a famous sports figure to endorse a product, we might wonder what that person knows about this product. The campaign and celebrity are not being used to inform the consumer, but rather to catch their attention with what is actually a faulty example of ethos.

      I never knew this. Now i want to pay attention to more commercials and see if its good ethos.

    4. Every time we write, we engage in debate or argument. Through writing and speaking, we try to persuade and influence our readers, either directly or indirectly. We work to get them to change their minds, to do something, or to begin thinking in new ways. Put simply, to be effective, every writer needs to know, and be able to use, principles of rhetoric.

      I like how this is kind of an intro or a little definition to make the rest of this article easier to read.

    1. Correlating with the EEGs, Dr. Law and her colleagues found that with every hour increase in average screen time, the children had more difficulties with attention and struggled more with executive functioning. However, because screen time is just one aspect of an infant’s environment, it is likely that multiple factors come into play, such as the quality of time with parents, the researchers say. It’s also possible that more active infants unintentionally receive more screen time as their parents try to manage their daily routines.

      impotant evadance

    2. The more time the children had spent with screens at 12 months of age, the stronger were their slower-frequency brain waves, known as theta waves, compared with high-frequency beta waves.

      key argment

    3. “The infant brain thrives on enriching interactions with the environment, and excessive infant screen time can reduce opportunities for real-world interactions that are important for brain development,”

      Key agment

    4. But a new study suggests that too much screen time during infancy may lead to changes in brain activity, as well as problems with executive functioning — the ability to stay focused and control impulses, behaviors, and emotions — in elementary school.

      Main Point

  2. Dec 2025
    1. We saw block-based editors as the future, not just for productivity but for social interactions. We centered Anytype on unique and extendable primitives: objects, types and relations. Why couldn’t a page be a blog post, a forum thread or some other object? Why not connect everything in a unified graph database, viewable as sets and collections? We were thrilled with the possibilities, though the complexity was immense.

      Es interesante esta generalidad desde los bloques (objetos, tipos y relaciones, que se juntan en un grafo). Los Dumems en Cardumem son otra forma de generalización desde el hipertexto programable (gracias al scripting en YueScript) y los metadatos personalizables que permiten las tablas de Lua.

      Sin embargo, para disminuir la complejidad y aumentar la practicidad, en Cardumem no apuntamos a tecnologías de la llamada web 3.0, sino que usamos las buenas y confliables web 2.0 con algo de retrofuturismo en los sistemas hipermedia.

    1. I really liked this article, placing human attention in the realm of natural resources extracted by "Investors" is a novel idea I had never heard of before.

      The idea of attention as a mineable resource hits really well given the context provided in this article. First presenting the limited resources of Coal, Trees, Fish, and Oil really helps paint a tangible feeling to help put the idea that "Attention is finite".

      Not using the word capitalism in the article a single time and instead using "Investor", "MBA Prodigies" really helps paint the picture, I believe Capitalism is a very loaded word and appreciate the word choice.

      I think that this as a stand alone piece works great, but it's got me thinking. It speaks to one emotionally which is very important. There is more to be done in digesting the meme, "Attention as a mineable resource". For example, What really is attention, why it is valuable, what are products it defines, what is the history of attention as a mineable resource. These questions would be a good starting off point for future discussion. For example we think of Facebook and Tik tok as attention mining systems, but before the internet we also has TV(Idiot Box), Magazine, Taboilds, and News Papers as systems of mining attention. There's a fun "The Medium is the Message" allegory to be made here I don't quite have the media literacy to articulate.

    2. But what if you didn’t need to wait for nature? What if you manufactured the dependency in days and provided the relief in minutes? Create the craving, sell the satisfaction. Scale that across millions of people. The formation time collapses to nothing. The extraction becomes continuous.

      This reminds me of Soma (Brave New World) - Wikipedia

    3. What happens when you deplete human psychology? When the substrate itself changes because you’ve extracted from it too aggressively?

      You end up with a population that can't read I guess, what do you think future reader of this article?

    4. The ability to focus deeply is finite. We’re not extracting rocks from the ground. We’re extracting cognitive capacity from people. And unlike oil, which you can stop pumping, this extraction is continuous. Every human, every day, having their attention harvested.

      So we are basically witnessing the creation of the Borg or is it more like the Matrix? Something seems to be happening

    1. Ile NAPRAWDĘ BIEGAĆ po 40? Kardiolog sportowy prof. Łukasz Małek obala największe mity
      • The Heart of the Active vs. Sedentary Person

        • The heart of an active individual undergoes positive adaptive changes and ages slower compared to the heart of someone with a sedentary lifestyle [00:03:04].
        • In people over 40, a sedentary heart tends to be less elastic, slightly thicker, and fills with blood less efficiently (diastolic dysfunction) [00:03:35].
        • For endurance athletes, the heart’s chambers enlarge (increased volume), which is a positive, physiological change, enabling it to fill and pump blood more effectively [00:04:27].
        • Active people have more elastic arteries, which helps maintain healthy blood pressure. In contrast, inactive people develop stiff, calcified arteries, which increases blood pressure and susceptibility to damage and plaque formation [00:05:24].
        • Exercise promotes the development of collateral circulation (new blood vessels). This helps protect the heart muscle by supplying blood via alternative routes during an event like a heart attack, often resulting in less severe damage [01:06:17].
      • Activity and Atherosclerosis

        • Physical activity acts similarly to statins by stabilizing atherosclerotic plaques [00:09:28]. It helps transform soft, rupture-prone (vulnerable) plaques into hard, fibrous, and calcified plaques, significantly reducing the risk of a heart attack or stroke [00:10:14].
        • Plaques do not disappear completely, as no known medicine or diet can "clean out" the arteries; the goal is stabilization and prevention of new plaques [00:09:39].
      • The Optimal Protocol for Heart Health

        • Regularity is the absolute key to cardiovascular benefits. The type or intensity of the activity is less important than consistency [01:31:42].
        • Weekend Warrior Principle: Research now shows that completing the required weekly volume of activity (a few hours) over the weekend provides the same health benefits as spreading it out daily [01:52:07], [00:00:08].
        • Intensity Mix: For maximizing health benefits, most of your training should be at a moderate intensity (a pace where you can comfortably hold a conversation, around 5-6 out of 10 on the perceived exertion scale) [01:46:25], [01:46:42].
        • High-Intensity Training (HIT) is effective for saving time, as it achieves the same health effects in a shorter duration, but it does not provide significantly greater health benefits than longer, moderate-intensity training [01:46:01], [01:47:14].
      • Non-Training Activity and VO2 Max

        • Non-training activity (e.g., taking the stairs, cleaning, parking further away) is crucial because every movement adds up and counteracts the sedentary nature of modern life [01:18:59].
        • Step Count: Focus on making steps count by including portions of brisk walking or climbing that cause a light sweat or quickened breath [02:22:04]. While optimal step counts vary (8,000–12,000+), any increase from a sedentary baseline (3,000-4,000) provides benefits [02:28:40].
        • VO2 Max and Longevity: Maximal oxygen uptake \(VO_2\) is considered one of the strongest predictors of longevity, as it measures the entire system’s function (lungs, circulation, muscle uptake) [01:34:51].
        • Training at any age builds this "capital," which helps counteract the natural decline in capacity (about 1 MET per decade), ensuring a higher level of functional fitness later in life [01:33:09].
      • Regeneration and Safety

        • Regeneration: The greatest health benefits occur between workouts. Exercise provides the stimulus, but the positive changes—like lowering blood pressure and metabolic adjustments—happen during the rest and recovery period [01:50:29], [01:51:25].
        • Monitoring (HRV): Parameters like Heart Rate Variability (HRV) from smartwatches should be treated as supplemental information. They are highly sensitive to stress, illness, and sleep, but they are not a reliable medical indicator. Always listen to your body and your self-assessed fatigue level over a watch [02:55:09].
        • Medical Screening: For people planning very intense training or competitive events, a basic medical check-up is recommended. This should include assessing family history of heart disease, checking risk factors (blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose), and performing an EKG [02:01:15], [02:02:01], [02:07:07]. Avoid self-ordering large, expensive "sports packages" of tests, as they often lead to false-positive results and unnecessary worry [02:03:04].
      • Final Key Message

        • The single most important factor for long-term health is regularity. Choose an activity that is enjoyable, sustainable, and that you can imagine yourself doing consistently at 60 or 70 years old [03:09:05].
    1. If the Woodstock music festival of August 1969 captured the idealism of the sixties youth culture, the Altamont concert the following December revealed its dark side.

      Concerts reflected youth culture’s optimism and creativity, but also its violence, chaos, and social unrest.

    2. Neil Armstrong’s “Giant leap for mankind” fulfilled the promise of the late John F. Kennedy, who had declared in 1961 that the United States would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade.

      The moon landing showed U.S. technological achievement and victory in the space race against the USSR.

    3. Johnson had already managed passage of the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960 as Senate Majority Leader.

      Johnson’s long experience, political skill, and knowledge of Congress allowed him to pass major legislation effectively.

    4. Fifty million Americans watching a star-studded courtroom drama about Nazi atrocities instead watched uniformed Americans behaving like German storm troopers, following orders to brutalize their fellow Americans.

      Televised violence shocked viewers, showing peaceful protesters being attacked, highlighting racial injustice in the United States.

    1. “They ain’t gonna go to school with my kids,” Milam said.

      Many whites resisted integration to maintain racial hierarchy and prevent social mixing in schools.

    2. the war and the Double V campaign for victory against fascism abroad and racism at home led to rising expectations for many African Americans.

      African Americans demanded more equality, challenging segregation and inspiring activism during the 1950s.

    3. The system included nearly 47,000 miles of highway, and the project was designed to be self-liquidating, so that the cost of building highways did not contribute to the national debt.

      Unlike railroads, highways were built for cars, funded by the government, and didn’t increase the national debt.

    4. Without paved roads to run on, there would have been far fewer cars and trucks built and sold in America, and their impact on society and the environment would have been much different.

      Better transportation, like highways, allowed more cars, boosting jobs, spending, and overall American wealth.

  3. mlpp.pressbooks.pub mlpp.pressbooks.pub
    1. The European Recovery Program or “Marshall Plan” pumped money into Western Europe.

      Marshall Plan rebuilt economies: NATO provided military security—Marshall Plan stabilized Europe more effectively long term.

    2. The issues that drove the conflict between the two superpowers strongly suggest the point was power rather than ideology.

      Beyond ideology, both nations wanted global influence and control over strategic regions and resources.

    3. The Soviet Union was among the fifty charter UN member-states and was given one of five seats alongside the “Four Policemen” (the United States, Britain, France, and China) on the Security Council.

      Unlike the League, the UN included major powers with permanent Security Council seats and veto power.

    4. There could be no cooperation between the United States and the Soviet Union, Kennan wrote. Instead, the Soviets had to be “contained.”

      Kennan believed the USSR’s expansion threatened peace, so the U.S. needed to stop its influence.

    1. By the end of the 1930s, Roosevelt and his Democratic Congresses had transformed American government and realigned politics.

      Roosevelt’s direct communication helped Americans trust him and support New Deal programs and reforms.

    2. many New Deal programs were built on the assumption that men would be the breadwinners and women mothers, homemakers, and consumers.

      Programs assumed men earned money and women stayed home, limiting women’s access to economic benefits.

    3. Running for reelection and facing rising opposition from both the left and the right, Roosevelt adopted a more radical, aggressive approach to poverty,

      Critics felt Roosevelt’s radical programs gave too much federal power, possibly violating the Constitution.

    4. During World War I he oversaw voluntary rationing as the head of the U.S. Food Administration and after the armistice served as the director-general of the American Relief Association in Europe.

      Hoover had experience helping people during crises, so Americans thought he could handle the Depression.

    1. Hoover focused on economic growth and prosperity. As secretary of commerce under Harding and Coolidge, he claimed credit for the sustained economic growth seen during the 1920s. Hoover boasted in 1928 that America had never been closer to eliminating poverty.

      People liked Hoover because he promised more wealth and a better standard of living.

    2. To deliver on his promises of stability and prosperity, Harding signed legislation to restore a high protective tariff and eliminated the last wartime controls over industry.

      People liked Republicans because they promised safety, steady jobs, and strong business support after the war.

    3. The decade so reshaped American life that it is remembered by many names: the New Era, the Jazz Age, the Age of the Flapper, the Prosperity Decade, and, most commonly, the Roaring Twenties.

      Life was changing fast with new music, movies, and jobs, so voters wanted things to feel familiar again.

    1. Missionary women played a central role in cultural reeducation programs that tried to not only instill Protestant religion but also to impose traditional American gender roles and family structures.

      This shows that assimilation focused on controlling social structures, but it ignored the deep cultural roots of Native communities, limiting its effectiveness.

    2. Throughout the 1850s, the Dakota of the Minnesota River Valley had grown increasingly frustrated by broken treaty promises and missed annuity payments by the U.S. government.

      This shows that unfair treatment and unfulfilled agreements by the U.S. government created economic hardship and anger among the Dakota people.

    3. The party’s leaders found it difficult to shepherd what remained a diverse and loosely organized coalition of reformers toward unified political action.

      Internal divisions made it hard for Populists to maintain a consistent national strategy and message.

    4. “Wall Street owns the country,” the Populist leader Mary Elizabeth Lease told dispossessed farmers around 1890. “It is no longer a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, but a government of Wall Street, by Wall Street, and for Wall Street.”

      This shows that Populists gained support by tapping into widespread frustration with economic inequality and corporate power, giving farmers and laborers a voice against elites.

    1. Taylor said, firms needed a scientific organization of mass production. He urged all manufacturers to increase efficiency by subdividing tasks. Rather than having thirty mechanics individually making thirty machines, for instance, a manufacturer could assign thirty laborers to perform thirty distinct tasks. The workers would complete their individual tasks more quickly and with greater precision, since their attention would be focused. Such a shift would not only make workers as interchangeable as the parts they were using, it would also dramatically speed up the process of production.

      Investors and managers liked Taylorism because it increased productivity, reduced labor costs, and made output more predictable, which meant higher profits.

    2. the war and its aftermath catalyzed a widespread increase in federal power at the expense of state and local control.

      This shows that the civil war forced the federal government to take on more authority, weakening state power to manage the nation during and after the war.

    1. change

      I think this is great, and we just need a little bridge to connect these ideas. Something like: That's because you've been getting answers designed for someone else's life, someone else's nervous system, someone else's problems. Ancient Greek philosophy worked differently. It wasn't about following someone else's rules—it was about developing your own capacity for wisdom. The Eleusinian Mysteries weren't a TED talk you attended once; they were an initiatory experience that changed how you understood reality. Protection practices weren't one-size-fits-all Instagram graphics; they were adapted to your specific life, your specific threats.

    2. Because what if it's ok to be a bit woo-woo and also want to dive deeper into Aristotle? What if it's ok to be suspicious of all that IG manifestation talk, but still want to turn up the volume on the magic you know exists in the world?  And finally, what if it's ok to be a bit nerdy, but also super curious about working with Greek and Balkan protection magic?

      I think we asked a ton of hypothetical questions up top, so for sake of changing the structure up a bit I'd phrase this like:

      This course assumes you're the kind of person who wants BOTH: the philosophical framework and the practical magic. Who finds TikTok manifestation culture too shallow but also knows there's something real happening when you work with ritual. Who wants to understand the 'why' behind the protection practices, not just follow instructions. If that's you, you're in the right place

    3. What if you could do this while also indulging your curiosity to delve deeper into philosophy and magic, inspired by Hellenic traditions?

      I think we could do something stronger here! "You don't have to choose between intellectual rigor and magical practice. Ancient Greek philosophers didn't. The same people who invented formal logic also practiced protective rituals. The same culture that gave us Aristotle also gave us the Eleusinian Mysteries. Philosophy and folklore weren't separate—they were two ways of understanding the same reality"

    4. Three things

      just make this a little clearer -- "But maybe the problem isn't your self-help book addiction — it's the fact that you're trying to "fix" your social media hygiene at all. Consider this: 1... "

    5. A 4-week journey designed to help us let go of what’s not ours, live more in tune with the seasons (something hard in modern life), and protect our peace + energy in a world that is increasingly clawing for our attention.

      maybe something instead that leads with the benefit upfront like: Four weekly workshops that adapt ancient Greek and Balkan protection and intention practices for modern life. You'll learn what's actually yours to carry, how to work with seasonal energy instead of your Google calendar, and why Persephone's story is the best manual for protecting your attention we have

    6. designed to help us let go of what’s not ours

      can this be more specific? "let go of what's not ours" — maybe something like, "push the mute button on your inner hater" ... not that, something better!

    1. Accessible Teaching Resource Hub

      It seems like this resource is less about working with the DRC and more about something like: "A self-paced toolkit with practical recommendations to ensure course materials are accessible." Besides the DRC Guide and Testing accommodations, do we want to focus on "accommodations" when the new guidelines are really about increasing access for all learners?

    1. Web Disability Simulator

      This one is crappy, but I am sure you can find one where, I don't know, prior tab labels vanish (like oldies who don't know how to navigate, with nonsense symbols), and the mouse jitters, and text is small or low contrast and can't be read, or words jumbling around, would be a fun experience! And actually, you can check something here: https://www.disabilitysimulator.com/

    Annotators

    1. So you guys are gonna force German companies (ultimately taxpayers) by law to pay for forest preservation in far Central America which allows them to pollute climate here in Germany and Deutsche Bank basically gets revenue through fees and Siemens and co. gets revenue through cheap taxes? So this is international scandal, "German government makes laws that helps DB to steal money from German people" but who cares if info war is gonna be won by you guys anyway given the money you paid to stinky Politico to show us this green propaganda as advertisement.

    1. Today, under the Polish Presidency of the Council of the European Union, EuroHPC JU inaugurated PIAST-Q in Poznań, Poland. This first inauguration of a EuroHPC quantum computer marks a milestone in building a European quantum computing infrastructure. This is also the first EuroHPC infrastructure located in Poland.

      PSNC PIAST-Q is a EuroHPC quantum computer Inaugurated June 2025

    1. The university’s signature thirty-one-story tower dominates the cityskyline and overlooks the remains of destroyed and depopulated Palestinianvillages on the slopes of the mountain below.

      Towers again...

    2. The Hebrew University administration has long collaborated withthe repression of Issawiyeh, carried out with the overwhelming support ofits Jewish-Israeli students. Over the last decade, student union chairpersonsand leaders of student groups have demanded increased policing of theneighborhood. Some even deployed racialized tropes to allege thatPalestinian men pose a danger to Jewish-Israeli women

      The role of student unions in universities interesting to consider in this context indeed

    3. The university’s iconic water tower, one of the tallest in theJerusalem skyline, served as a military lookout on East Jerusalem until2006; today, it remains inaccessible due to military use.

      Militarisation of university architecture

    4. After a brief negotiation with theIsraeli military governor, the National Library and Hebrew University weregranted authority to appropriate books from Palestinian homes, libraries,and educational and religious institutions left behind by Palestinian warrefugees. Hebrew University granted funds and official status to thisenterprise, and organized teams of librarians to trail Israeli soldiers andcollect books from Palestinian buildings. University students andadministrators joined them to comb through Palestinian neighborhoods,searching for institutional libraries and troves of private book collections.

      This was also in the Azoulay book

    5. The university was officially recruited by Israel soon after the state’sestablishment, and expected to commit its resources, campus, and researchtoward building the new state.

      This is quite something... Is there a comparison between the civic mission of UK universities?

    1. New vocabulary

      1. Performative confidence - (looking the part rather than trying to learn to be a part, basically projecting self assurance and confidence to gain external validation, and hide shortcomings)
      2. Viscerally - feeling something deeply and instinctively, like in your "gut," rather than through logical thought
    2. **Summary ** 1) This isn’t nostalgia — it’s a structural change in childhood space

      The essay argues that across history and cultures, kids have naturally carved out autonomous zones (streets, empty lots, forests, corners of towns) where they own time and space away from adults. That’s not a random pattern — it’s deeply human behavior. The Browser

      The disappearance of these spaces isn’t just kids playing less. It’s a loss of a psychological environment where children make sense of the world on their own terms.

      Insight: It reframes the problem from “kids spend more time inside” to “children are being structurally excluded from public life,” not by kids’ choices, but by how adult society is organized.

      2) The cause is more built environment + social patterns than screens

      The author pushes back against the common idea that the internet is the big culprit. Instead, he points to car-dependent suburbs, families spread far apart, and modern work patterns (parents not at home, schedules tightly managed), making free interaction physically harder. aman.bh

      Insight: Technology is a symptom of isolation, not the root cause. The real bottlenecks are:

      towns designed without gathering places

      kids physically separated from peers

      reliance on cars over walking/biking

      3) Modern “play” is not truly play

      There’s a distinction made between:

      Structured activities (sports practice, classes with adults)

      Unstructured peer play (kids deciding what to do, how to do it, together)

      The latter is what’s disappearing. Organized activities fill time, but don’t create the same kind of autonomy and peer culture that spontaneous play does. aman.bh

      Insight: If all your child’s social interactions are planned by adults, the dynamic changes — it becomes supervision, not co-participation.

      4) Internet/online spaces are a child-managed arena

      One reason kids gravitate online is because it’s one of the only unsupervised social spaces left. They aren’t free in the physical world, so they find agency where adults are less present (forums, chats, games). The Browser

      New angle: The internet isn’t the cause of isolation — it’s a response to it. Kids go where they can control interactions without adult oversight.

      5) The core issue isn’t “kids vs screens” — it’s where childhood autonomy can exist

      This reframes the whole debate from blaming technologies to asking:

      Where in the modern city can children act independently?

      And the answer the essay hints at is: almost nowhere — so kids create their own spaces, even if imperfect.

      Insight: Autonomy isn’t earned by limiting devices. It’s earned by restoring real-world environments where children can make choice, risk, negotiation, and friendship happen without adult orchestration.

      6) Play functions as a designed culture, not an activity

      When the essay references he “wishes children had forests,” he’s pointing to a deeper truth: What matters isn’t a physical object (forest) — it’s the freedom to explore, innovate, and improvise with peers.

      Insight: Play loses value when it’s designed by adults for kids (e.g., programs, classes) and gains value when it’s designed by kids for themselves.

      7) This problem isn’t just a “kids issue” — it’s a community design failure

      The commentary makes it clear that the conditions limiting play — distance, traffic fears, suburban sprawl — are not random. They’re outcomes of how cities and societies organize:

      roads instead of paths

      fences instead of common spaces

      schedules instead of unstructured time

      Insight: If you want kids to have autonomy, you have to change the adult world — it’s not something kids can generate on their own.

    3. 71% have not used a sharp knife;

      We removed tools before removing dangers

      71% haven’t used a sharp knife. 63% haven’t built anything outside.

      These aren’t random activities. They teach:

      • cause and effect

      • respect for tools

      • spatial reasoning

      • responsibility

      Instead of teaching how to handle danger, we tried to delete danger.

      But danger didn’t disappear — it just moved:

      • from knives → pornography

      • from forts → anonymous chats

      • from scraped knees → psychological harm

      We eliminated the training ground, not the threat.

    4. 45% have not walked in a different aisle than their parents at a store;

      **Exposure ≠ agency **

      Exposure without agency creates:

      • anxiety

      • dependency

      • performative confidence (looking the part rather than trying to learn to be a part, basically projecting self assurance and confidence to gain external validation, and hide shortcomings)

      low real-world resilience

      You’re seeing kids who know about the world but don’t know how to move in it.

    5. Consider some statistics on the American childhood, drawn from children aged 8-12:

      We didn’t make childhood safer. We made it less formative.

      Kids now:

      encounter adult-level content early

      but reach adult-level independence late

      That gap is the story.

    6. Meanwhile, 31% of 8-12 year olds have spoken with large language models. 23% have talked to strangers online, while only 44% have physically spoken to a neighbor without their parents. 50% have seen pornography by the time they turn 13.

      Kids are independent in the digital world before the physical one.

      That flips the historical order. Earlier generations learned:

      • physical world → social norms → abstract/digital spaces

      Now it’s:

      • abstract/digital spaces → simulated interaction → limited real-world agency

      This matters because:

      **Digital spaces forgive mistakes cheaply

      Physical spaces teach consequences viscerally**

    1. eLife Assessment

      This Review Article explores the intricate relationship between humans and Mycobacterium tuberculosis (Mtb), providing an additional perspective on TB disease. Specifically, this review focuses on the utilization of systems-level approaches to study TB, while highlighting challenges in the frameworks used to identify the relevant immunologic signals that may explain the clinical spectrum of disease. The work could be further enhanced by better defining key terms that anchor the review, such as "unified mechanism" and "immunological route." This review will be of interest to immunologists as well as those interested in evolution and host-pathogen interactions.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is an interesting and useful review highlighting the complex pathways through which pulmonary colonisation or infection with Mycobacterium tuberculosis (Mtb) may progress to develop symptomatic disease and transmit the pathogen. I found the section on immune correlates associated with individuals who have clearly been exposed to and reacted to Mtb but did not develop latent infections particularly valuable. However, several aspects would benefit from clarification.

      Strengths:

      The main strengths lie in the arguments presented for a multiplicity of immune pathways to TB disease.

      Weaknesses:

      The main weaknesses lie in clarity, particularly in the precise meanings of the three figures.

      I accept that there is a 'goldilocks zone' that underpins the majority of TB cases we see and predominantly reflects different patterns of immune response, but the analogies used need to be more clearly thought through.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is a thought-provoking perspective by Reichmann et al, outlining supportive evidence that Mycobacterium tuberculosis co-evolved with its host Homo Sapiens to both increase susceptibility to infection and reduce rates of fatal disease through decreased virulence. TB is an ancient disease where two modes of virulence are likely to have evolved through different stages of human evolution: one before the Neolithic Demographic Transition, where humans lived in sparse hunter-gatherer communities, which likely selected for prolonged Mtb infection with reduced virulence to allow for transmission across sparse populations. Conversely, following the agricultural and industrial revolutions, Mtb virulence is likely to have evolved to attack a higher number of susceptible individuals. These different disease modalities highlight the central idea that there are different immunological routes to TB disease, which converge on a disease phenotype characterized by high bacterial load and destruction of the extracellular matrix. The writing is very clear and provides a lot of supportive evidence from population studies and the recent clinical trials of novel TB vaccines, like M72 and H56. However, there are areas to support the thesis that have been described only in broad strokes, including the impact of host and Mtb genetic heterogeneity on this selection, and the alternative model that there are likely different TB diseases (as opposed to different routes to the same disease), as described by several groups advancing the concept of heterogeneous TB endotypes. I expand on specific points below.

      Strengths:

      (1) The idea that Mtb evolved to both increase transmission (and possible commensalism with humans) with low rates of reactivation is intriguing. The heterogeneous TB phenotypes in the collaborative cross model (PMID: 35112666) support this idea, where some genetic backgrounds can tolerate a high bacterial load with minimal pathology, while others show signs of pathogenesis with low bacterial loads. This supports the idea that the underlying host state, driven by a number of factors like genetics and nutrition, is likely to explain whether someone will co-exist with Mtb without pathology, or progress to disease. I particularly enjoyed the discussion of the protective advantages provided by Mtb infection, which may have rewired the human immune system to provide protection against heterologous pathogens- this is supported by recent studies showing that Mtb infection provides moderate protection against SARS-CoV-2 (PMID: 35325013, and 37720210), and may have applied to other viruses that are likely to have played a more significant role in the past in the natural selection of Homo Sapiens.

      (2) Modeling from Marcel Behr and colleagues (PMID: 31649096) indeed suggests that there are at least TB clinical phenotypes that likely mirror the two distinct phases of Mtb co-evolution with humans. Most of the TB disease progression occurs rapidly (within 1-2 years of exposure), and the rest are slow cases of reactivation over time. I enjoyed the discussion of the difference between the types of immune hits needed to progress to disease in the two scenarios, where you may need severe immune hits for rapid progression, a phenotype that likely evolved after the Neolithic transition to larger human populations. On the other hand, a series of milder immune events leading to reactivation after a long period of asymptomatic infection likely mirrors slow progression in the hunter-gatherer communities, to allow for prolonged transmission in scarce populations. Perhaps a clearer analysis of these models would be helpful for the reader.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The discussion of genetic heterogeneity is limited and only discusses evidence from MSMD studies. Genetics is an important angle to consider in the co-evolution of Mtb and humans. There is a large body of literature on both host and Mtb genetic associations with TB disease. The very fact that host variants in one population do not necessarily cross-validate across populations is evidence in support of population-specific adaptations. Specific Mtb lineages are likely to have co-evolved with distinct human populations. A key reference is missing (PMID: 23995134), which shows that different lineages co-evolved with human migrations. Also, meta-analyses of human GWAS studies to define variants associated with TB are very relevant to the topic of co-evolution (e.g., PMID: 38224499). eQTL studies can also highlight genetic variants associated with regulating key immune genes involved in the response to TB. The authors do mention that Mtb itself is relatively clonal with ~2K SNPs marking Mtb variation, much of which has likely evolved under the selection pressure of modern antibiotics. However, some of this limited universe of variants can still explain co-adaptations between distinct Mtb lineages and different human populations, as shown recently in the co-evolution of lineage 2 with a variant common in Peruvians (PMID: 39613754).

      (2) Although the examples of anti-TNF and anti-PD1 treatments are relevant as drivers of TB in limited clinical contexts, the bigger picture is that they highlight major distinct disease endotypes. These restricted examples show that TB can be driven by immune deficiency (as in the case of anti-TNF, HIV, and malnutrition) or hyperactivation (as in the case of anti-PD1 treatment), but there are still certainly many other routes leading to immune suppression or hyperactivation. Considering the idea of hyper-activation as a TB driver, the apparent higher rate of recurrence in the H56 trial referenced in the review is likely due to immune hyperactivation, especially in the context of residual bacteria in the lung. These different TB manifestations (immune suppression vs immune hyperactivation) mirror TB endotypes described by DiNardo et al (PMID: 35169026) from analysis of extensive transcriptomic data, which indicate that it's not merely different routes leading to the same final endpoint of clinical disease, but rather multiple different disease endpoints. A similar scenario is shown in the transcriptomic signatures underlying disease progression in BCG-vaccinated infants, where two distinct clusters mirrored the hyperactivation and immune suppression phenotypes (PMID: 27183822). A discussion of how to think about translating the extensive information from system biology into treatment stratification approaches, or adjunct host-directed therapies, would be helpful.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This perspective article by Reichmann et al. highlights the importance of moving beyond the search for a single, unified immune mechanism to explain host-Mtb interactions. Drawing from studies in immune profiling, host and bacterial genetics, the authors emphasize inconsistencies in the literature and argue for broader, more integrative models. Overall, the article is thought-provoking and well-articulated, raising a concept that is worth further exploration in the TB field.

      Strengths:

      Timely and relevant in the context of the rapidly expanding multi-omics datasets that provide unprecedented insights into host-Mtb interactions.

      Weaknesses (Minor):

      (1) Clarity on the notion of a "unified mechanism". It remains unclear whether prior studies explicitly proposed a single unifying immunological model. While inconsistencies in findings exist, they do not necessarily demonstrate that earlier work was uniformly "single-minded". Moreover, heterogeneity in TB has been recognized previously (PMIDs: 19855401, 28736436), which the authors could acknowledge.

      (2) Evolutionary timeline and industrial-era framing. The evolutionary model is outdated. Ancient DNA studies place the Mtb's most recent common ancestor at ~6,000 years BP (PMIDs: 25141181; 25848958). The Industrial Revolution is cited as a driver of TB expansion, but this remains speculative without bacterial-genomics evidence and should be framed as a hypothesis. Additionally, the claim that Mtb genomes have been conserved only since the Industrial Revolution (lines 165-167) is inaccurate; conservation extends back to the MRCA (PMID: 31448322).

      (3) Trained immunity and TB infection. The treatment of trained immunity is incomplete. While BCG vaccination is known to induce trained immunity (ref 59), revaccination does not provide sustained protection (ref 8), and importantly, Mtb infection itself can also impart trained immunity (PMID: 33125891). Including these nuances would strengthen the discussion.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This Review Article explores the intricate relationship between humans and Mycobacterium tuberculosis (Mtb), providing an additional perspective on TB disease. Specifically, this review focuses on the utilization of systems-level approaches to study TB, while highlighting challenges in the frameworks used to identify the relevant immunologic signals that may explain the clinical spectrum of disease. The work could be further enhanced by better defining key terms that anchor the review, such as "unified mechanism" and "immunological route." This review will be of interest to immunologists as well as those interested in evolution and host-pathogen interactions.

      We thank the editors for reviewing our article and for the primarily positive comments. We accept that better definition and terminology will improve the clarity of the message, and so have changed the wording as suggested above in the revised manuscript.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is an interesting and useful review highlighting the complex pathways through which pulmonary colonisation or infection with Mycobacterium tuberculosis (Mtb) may progress to develop symptomatic disease and transmit the pathogen. I found the section on immune correlates associated with individuals who have clearly been exposed to and reacted to Mtb but did not develop latent infections particularly valuable. However, several aspects would benefit from clarification.

      Strengths:

      The main strengths lie in the arguments presented for a multiplicity of immune pathways to TB disease.

      Weaknesses:

      The main weaknesses lie in clarity, particularly in the precise meanings of the three figures.

      We accept this point, and have completely changed figure 2, and have expanded the legends for figure 1 and 3 to maximise clarity.

      I accept that there is a 'goldilocks zone' that underpins the majority of TB cases we see and predominantly reflects different patterns of immune response, but the analogies used need to be more clearly thought through.

      We are glad the reviewer agrees with the fundamental argument of different patterns of immunity, and have revised the manuscript throughout where we feel the analogies could be clarified.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is a thought-provoking perspective by Reichmann et al, outlining supportive evidence that Mycobacterium tuberculosis co-evolved with its host Homo Sapiens to both increase susceptibility to infection and reduce rates of fatal disease through decreased virulence. TB is an ancient disease where two modes of virulence are likely to have evolved through different stages of human evolution: one before the Neolithic Demographic Transition, where humans lived in sparse hunter-gatherer communities, which likely selected for prolonged Mtb infection with reduced virulence to allow for transmission across sparse populations. Conversely, following the agricultural and industrial revolutions, Mtb virulence is likely to have evolved to attack a higher number of susceptible individuals. These different disease modalities highlight the central idea that there are different immunological routes to TB disease, which converge on a disease phenotype characterized by high bacterial load and destruction of the extracellular matrix. The writing is very clear and provides a lot of supportive evidence from population studies and the recent clinical trials of novel TB vaccines, like M72 and H56. However, there are areas to support the thesis that have been described only in broad strokes, including the impact of host and Mtb genetic heterogeneity on this selection, and the alternative model that there are likely different TB diseases (as opposed to different routes to the same disease), as described by several groups advancing the concept of heterogeneous TB endotypes. I expand on specific points below.

      Strengths:

      The idea that Mtb evolved to both increase transmission (and possible commensalism with humans) with low rates of reactivation is intriguing. The heterogeneous TB phenotypes in the collaborative cross model (PMID: 35112666) support this idea, where some genetic backgrounds can tolerate a high bacterial load with minimal pathology, while others show signs of pathogenesis with low bacterial loads. This supports the idea that the underlying host state, driven by a number of factors like genetics and nutrition, is likely to explain whether someone will co-exist with Mtb without pathology, or progress to disease. I particularly enjoyed the discussion of the protective advantages provided by Mtb infection, which may have rewired the human immune system to provide protection against heterologous pathogens- this is supported by recent studies showing that Mtb infection provides moderate protection against SARS-CoV-2 (PMID: 35325013, and 37720210), and may have applied to other viruses that are likely to have played a more significant role in the past in the natural selection of Homo Sapiens.

      We thank the reviewer for their positive comments, and also for pointing out work that we have overlooked citing previously. We now discuss and cite the work above as suggested

      Modeling from Marcel Behr and colleagues (PMID: 31649096) indeed suggests that there are at least TB clinical phenotypes that likely mirror the two distinct phases of Mtb co-evolution with humans. Most of the TB disease progression occurs rapidly (within 1-2 years of exposure), and the rest are slow cases of reactivation over time. I enjoyed the discussion of the difference between the types of immune hits needed to progress to disease in the two scenarios, where you may need severe immune hits for rapid progression, a phenotype that likely evolved after the Neolithic transition to larger human populations. On the other hand, a series of milder immune events leading to reactivation after a long period of asymptomatic infection likely mirrors slow progression in the hunter-gatherer communities, to allow for prolonged transmission in scarce populations. Perhaps a clearer analysis of these models would be helpful for the reader.

      We agree that we did not present these concepts in as much detail as we should, and so we now discuss this more on lines 81 – 83 and 184 - 187)

      Weaknesses:

      The discussion of genetic heterogeneity is limited and only discusses evidence from MSMD studies. Genetics is an important angle to consider in the co-evolution of Mtb and humans. There is a large body of literature on both host and Mtb genetic associations with TB disease. The very fact that host variants in one population do not necessarily cross-validate across populations is evidence in support of population-specific adaptations. Specific Mtb lineages are likely to have co-evolved with distinct human populations. A key reference is missing (PMID: 23995134), which shows that different lineages co-evolved with human migrations. Also, meta-analyses of human GWAS studies to define variants associated with TB are very relevant to the topic of co-evolution (e.g., PMID: 38224499). eQTL studies can also highlight genetic variants associated with regulating key immune genes involved in the response to TB. The authors do mention that Mtb itself is relatively clonal with ~2K SNPs marking Mtb variation, much of which has likely evolved under the selection pressure of modern antibiotics. However, some of this limited universe of variants can still explain co-adaptations between distinct Mtb lineages and different human populations, as shown recently in the co-evolution of lineage 2 with a variant common in Peruvians (PMID: 39613754).

      We thank the reviewer for these comments and agree we failed to cite and discuss the work from Sebastian Gagneux’s group on co-migration, which we now discuss. We include a new paragraph discussing co-evolution as suggested on lines 145 – 155 and 218 -220 , citing the work proposed, which we agree enhances the arguments about co-evolution.

      Although the examples of anti-TNF and anti-PD1 treatments are relevant as drivers of TB in limited clinical contexts, the bigger picture is that they highlight major distinct disease endotypes. These restricted examples show that TB can be driven by immune deficiency (as in the case of anti-TNF, HIV, and malnutrition) or hyperactivation (as in the case of anti-PD1 treatment), but there are still certainly many other routes leading to immune suppression or hyperactivation. Considering the idea of hyper-activation as a TB driver, the apparent higher rate of recurrence in the H56 trial referenced in the review is likely due to immune hyperactivation, especially in the context of residual bacteria in the lung. These different TB manifestations (immune suppression vs immune hyperactivation) mirror TB endotypes described by DiNardo et al (PMID: 35169026) from analysis of extensive transcriptomic data, which indicate that it's not merely different routes leading to the same final endpoint of clinical disease, but rather multiple different disease endpoints. A similar scenario is shown in the transcriptomic signatures underlying disease progression in BCG-vaccinated infants, where two distinct clusters mirrored the hyperactivation and immune suppression phenotypes (PMID: 27183822). A discussion of how to think about translating the extensive information from system biology into treatment stratification approaches, or adjunct host-directed therapies, would be helpful.

      We agree with the points made and that the two publications above further enhance the paper. We have added discussion of the different disease endpoints on line 65 - 67, the evidence regarding immune herpeactivation versus suppression in the vaccination study on lines 162 - 164, and expanded on the translational implications on lines 349 – 352.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This perspective article by Reichmann et al. highlights the importance of moving beyond the search for a single, unified immune mechanism to explain host-Mtb interactions. Drawing from studies in immune profiling, host and bacterial genetics, the authors emphasize inconsistencies in the literature and argue for broader, more integrative models. Overall, the article is thought-provoking and well-articulated, raising a concept that is worth further exploration in the TB field.

      Strengths:

      Timely and relevant in the context of the rapidly expanding multi-omics datasets that provide unprecedented insights into host-Mtb interactions.

      Weaknesses (Minor):

      Clarity on the notion of a "unified mechanism". It remains unclear whether prior studies explicitly proposed a single unifying immunological model. While inconsistencies in findings exist, they do not necessarily demonstrate that earlier work was uniformly "single-minded". Moreover, heterogeneity in TB has been recognized previously (PMIDs: 19855401, 28736436), which the authors could acknowledge.

      We accept this point and have toned down the language, acknowledging that we are expanding on an argument that others have made, whilst focusing on the implications for the systems immunology era, and cite the previous work as suggested.

      Evolutionary timeline and industrial-era framing. The evolutionary model is outdated. Ancient DNA studies place the Mtb's most recent common ancestor at ~6,000 years BP (PMIDs: 25141181; 25848958). The Industrial Revolution is cited as a driver of TB expansion, but this remains speculative without bacterial-genomics evidence and should be framed as a hypothesis. Additionally, the claim that Mtb genomes have been conserved only since the Industrial Revolution (lines 165-167) is inaccurate; conservation extends back to the MRCA (PMID: 31448322).

      Our understanding is that the evolutionary timeline is not fully resolved, with conflicting evidence proposing different dates. The ancient DNA studies giving a timeline of 6,000 years seem to oppose the evidence of evidence of Mtb infection of humans in the middle east 10,000 years ago, and other estimates suggesting 70,000 years. Therefore, we have cited the work above and added a sentence highlighting that different studies propose different timelines. We would propose the industrial revolution created the ideal societal conditions for the expansion of TB, and this would seem widely accepted in the field, but have added a proviso as suggested. We did not intent to claim that Mtb genomes have been conserved since the industrial revolution, the point we were making is that despite rapid expansion within human populations, it has still remained conserved. We therefore have revised our discussion of the conservation of the Mtb genomes on lines and 72 – 74, 81 – 83 and 185 – 190.

      Trained immunity and TB infection. The treatment of trained immunity is incomplete. While BCG vaccination is known to induce trained immunity (ref 59), revaccination does not provide sustained protection (ref 8), and importantly, Mtb infection itself can also impart trained immunity (PMID: 33125891). Including these nuances would strengthen the discussion.

      We have refined this section. We did cite PMID: 33125891 in the original submission but have changed the wording to emphasise the point on line …

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Abstract

      Line 30: What is an immunological route? Suggest

      ”...host-pathogen interaction, with diverse immunological processes leading to TB disease (10%) or stable lifelong association or elimination. We suggest these alternate relationships result from the prolonged co-evolution of the pathogen with humans and may even confer a survival advantage in the 90% of exposures that do not progress to disease.”

      Thank you, we have reworded the abstract along the lines suggested above, but not identically to allow for other reviewer comments.

      Introduction

      Ln 43: It is misleading to suggest that the study of TB was the leading influence in establishing the Koch's postulates framework. Many other infections were involved, and Jacob Henle, one of Koch's teachers, is credited with the first clear formulation (see Evans AS. 1976 THE YALE JOURNAL OF BIOLOGY AND MEDICIN PMID: 782050).

      We have downplayed the language, stating that TB “contributed” to the formulation if Koch’s postulated.

      Ln 46: While the review rightly emphasises intracellular infection in macrophages, the importance and abundance of extracellular bacilli should not be ignored, particularly in transmission and in cavities.

      We agree, and have added text on the importance of extracellular bacteria and transmission.

      Ln: 56: This is misleading as primary disease prevention is implied, whereas the vaccine was given to individuals presumed to be already infected (TST or IGRA positive). Suggest ..."reduces by 50% progression to overt TB disease when given to those with immunological evidence of latent infection.

      Thank you, edit made as suggested

      Ln 62: Not sure why it is urgent. Suggest "high priority".

      Wording changed as suggested.

      Figure 1 needs clarification. The colour scale appears to signify the strength or vigour of the immune response so that disease is associated with high (orange/red) or low (green/blue) activity. The arrows seem to imply either a sequence or a route map when all we really have is an association with a plausible mechanistic link. They might also be taken to imply a hierarchy that is not appropriate. I'm not sure that the X-rays and arrows add anything, and the rectangle provides the key information on its own. Clarify please.

      We have clarified the figure legend. We feel the X-rays give the clinical context, and so have kept them, and now state in the legend that this is highlighting that there are diverse pathways leading to active disease to try to emphasise the point the figure is illustrating.

      Ln 149-157: I agree that the current dogma is that overt pulmonary disease is required to spread Mtb and fuel disease prevalence. It is vitally important to distinguish the spread of the organism from the occurrence of disease (which does not, of itself, spread). However, both epidemiological (e.g. Ryckman TS, et al. 2022Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A:10.1073/pnas.2211045119) and recent mechanistic (Dinkele R, et al. 2024iScience:10.1016/j.isci.2024.110731, Patterson B, et al. 2024Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A:10. E1073/pnas.2314813121, Warner DF, et al. 2025Nat Rev Microbiol:10.1038/s41579-025-01201-x) studies indicate the importance of asymptomatic infections, and those associated with sputum positivity have recently been recognised by WHO. I think it will be important to acknowledge the importance of this aspect and consider how immune responses may or may not contribute. I regard the view that Mtb is an obligate pathogen, dependent on overt pTB for transmission, as needing to be reviewed.

      We agree that we did not give sufficient emphasis to the emerging evidence on asymptomatic infections, and that this may play an important part in transmission in high incidence settings. We now include a discussion on this, and citation of the papers above, on lines 168 – 170.

      Ln 159: The terms colonise and colonisation are used, without a clear definition, several times. My view is that both refer to the establishment and replication of an organism on or within a host without associated damage. Where there is associated damage, this is often mediated by immune responses. In this header, I think "establishment in humanity" would be appropriate.

      We agree with this point and have changed the header as suggested, and clarified our meaning when we use the term colonisation, which the reviewer correctly interprets.

      Ln 181-: I strongly support the view that Mtb has contributed to human selection, even to the suggestion that humanity is adapted to maintain a long-term relationship with Mtb

      Thank you, and we have expanded on this evidence as suggested by other reviewers.

      Ln 189: improved.

      Apologies, typo corrected.

      Figure 2: I was also confused by this. The x-axis does not make sense, as a single property should increase. Moreover, does incidence refer to incidence in individuals with that specific balance of resistance and susceptibility, or contribution to overall global incidence - I suspect the latter (also, prevalence would make more sense). At the same time, the legend implies that those with high resistance to colonisation will be infrequent in the population, suggesting that the Y axis should be labelled "frequency in human population". Finally, I can't see what single label could apply to the X axis. While the implication that the majority of global infections reflect a balance between the resistance and susceptibilities is indicated, a frequency distribution does not seem an appropriate representation.

      The reviewer is correct that the X axis is aiming to represent two variables, which is not logical, and so we have completely changed this figure to a simple one that we hope makes the point clearly and have amended the legend appropriately. We are aiming to highlight the selective pressures of Mtb on the human population over millennia.

      Ln 244: Immunological failure - I agree with the statement but again find the figure (3) unhelpful. Do we start or end in the middle? Is the disease the outside - if so, why are different locations implied? The notion of a maze has some value, but the bacteria should start and finish in the same place by different routes.

      We are attempting to illustrate the concept that escape from host immunological control can occur through different mechanisms. As this comment was just from one reviewer, we have left the figure unchanged but have expanded the legend to try to make the point that this is just a conceptual illustration of multiple routes to disease.

      Ln 262 onward: I broadly agree with the points made about omic technologies, but would wish to see major emphasis on clear phenotyping of cases. There is something of a contradiction in the review between the emphasis on the multiplicity of immunological processes leading ultimately to disease and the recommendation to analyse via omics, which, in their most widely applied format, bundle these complexities into analyses of the humoral and cellular samples available in blood. Admittedly, the authors point out opportunities for 3-dimensional and single-cell analyses, but it is difficult to see where these end without extrapolation ad infinitum.

      We totally agree that clear phenotyping of infection is critical, and expand on this further on lines 307 - 309.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I suggest expanding on the genetic determinants of Mtb/host co-evolution.

      Thank you, we have now expanded on these sections as suggested.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      We are in an era of exploding large-scale datasets from multi-omics profiling of Mtb and host interactions, offering an unprecedented lens to understand the complexity of the host immune response to Mtb-a pathogen that has infected human populations for thousands of years. The guiding philosophy for how to interpret this tremendous volume of data and what models can be built from it will be critical. In this context, the perspective article by Reichmann et al. raises an interesting concept: to "avoid unified immune mechanisms" when attempting to understand the immunology underpinning host-Mtb interactions. To support their arguments, the authors review studies and provide evidence from immune profiling, host and bacterial genetics, and showcase several inconsistencies. Overall, this perspective article is well articulated, and the concept is worthwhile for further exploration. A few comments for consideration:

      Clarity on the notion of a "unified mechanism". Was there ever a single, clearly proposed unified immunological mechanism? For example, in lines 64-65, the authors criticize that almost all investigations into immune responses to Mtb are based on the premise that a unifying disease mechanism exists. However, after reading the article, it was not clear to me how previous studies attempted to unify the model or what that unifying mechanism was. While inconsistencies in findings certainly exist, they do not necessarily indicate that prior work was guided by a unified framework. I agree that interpreting and exploring data from a broader perspective is valuable, but I am not fully convinced that previous studies were uniformly "single-minded". In fact, the concept of heterogeneity in TB has been previously discussed (e.g., PMIDs: 19855401, 28736436).

      We accept this point, and that we have overstated the argument and not acknowledged previous work sufficiently. We now downplay the language and cite the work as proposed.

      However, we would propose that essentially all published studies imply that single mechanisms underly development of disease. The authors are not aware of any manuscript that concludes “Therefore, xxxx pathway is one of several that can lead to TB disease”, instead they state “Therefore, xxxx pathway leads to TB disease”. The implication of this language is that the mechanism described occurs in all patients, whilst in fact it likely only is involved in a subset. We have toned down the language and expand on this concept on line 268 – 270.

      Evolutionary timeline and industrial-era framing. The evolutionary model needs updating. The manuscript cites a "70,000-year" origin for Mtb, but ancient-DNA studies place the most recent common ancestor at ~6,000 years BP (PMIDs: 25141181; 25848958). The Industrial Revolution is invoked multiple times as a driver of TB expansion, yet the magnitude of its contribution remains debated and, to my knowledge, lacks direct bacterial-genomics evidence for causal attribution; this should be framed as a hypothesis rather than a conclusion. In addition, the statement in lines 165-167 is inaccurate: at the genome level, Mtb has remained highly conserved since its most recent common ancestor-not specifically since the Industrial Revolution (PMID: 31448322).

      We accept these points and have made the suggested amendments, as outlined in the public responses. Our understanding is that the evidence about the most common ancestor is controversial; if the divergence of human populations occurred concurrently with Mtb, then this must have been significantly earlier than 6,000 years ago, and so there are conflicting arguments in this domain.

      Trained immunity and TB infection. The discussion of trained immunity could be expanded. Reference 59 suggests the induction of innate immune training, but reference 8 reports that revaccination does not confer protection against sustained TB infection, indicating that at least "re"-vaccination may not enhance protection. Furthermore, while BCG is often highlighted as a prototypical inducer of trained immunity, real-world infection occurs through Mtb itself. Importantly, a later study demonstrated that Mtb infection can also impart trained immunity (PMID: 33125891). Integrating these findings would provide a more nuanced view of how both vaccination and infection shape innate immune training in the TB context.

      We thank the reviewer for these suggestions and have edited the relevant section to include these studies.

    1. Risk assessments are applied disproportionately to Palestine-related events, turningsimple events into bureaucratic obstacles that require navigating a maze of approvals,fees and excessive security measures. By cloaking these restrictions in the language ofneutral bureaucratic procedure, universities effectively suppress activism, ensuring thatcontentious issues are kept out of public view.

      See Arnolfini

    2. This moment forces a re-evaluation of the oft-invoked commitments to decolonisa-tion, as the silence of disciplinary departments and journals in the face of genocideexposes these narratives as performative at best.

      Specific mention of journals here too

  4. accessmedicine-mhmedical-com.ezproxy.lib.vt.edu accessmedicine-mhmedical-com.ezproxy.lib.vt.edu
    1. Distal interphalangeal (DIP) joint involvement may occur in RA, but it usually is a manifestation of coexistent osteoarthritis.

      Likely due to the anatomic differences in the DIP. Pathogenesis of RA is related to the synovial membrane. While it is not lacking in the DIP they must pose other structual differences.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This important study describes the progressive transformation of olfactory information across five different brain regions in the olfactory pathway, including a comparison of responses to familiar and unfamiliar odors. This dataset is of broad interest for olfactory researchers and provides a solid analysis of a graded change in representations of odor identity and experience in different locations in the pathway.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this important study, the authors characterized the transformation of neural representations of olfactory stimuli from primary sensory cortex to multisensory regions in the medial temporal lobe and investigated how they were affected by non-associative learning. The authors used high-density silicon probe recordings from five different cortical regions while familiar vs. novel odors were presented to a head-restrained mouse. This is a timely study because unlike other sensory systems (e.g., vision), the progressive transformation of olfactory information is still poorly understood. The authors report that both odor identity and experience are encoded by all of these five cortical areas but nonetheless, some themes emerge. Single neuron tuning of odor identity is broad in the sensory cortices but becomes narrowly tuned in hippocampal regions. Furthermore, while experience affects neuronal response magnitudes in early sensory cortices, it changes the proportion of active neurons in hippocampal regions. Thus, this study is an important step forward in the ongoing quest to understand how olfactory information is progressively transformed along the olfactory pathway.

      The study is well-executed. The direct comparison of neuronal representations from five different brain regions is impressive. Conclusions are based on single neuronal level as well as population level decoding analyses. Among all the reported results, one stands out for being remarkably robust. The authors show that the anterior olfactory nucleus (AON), which receives direct input from the olfactory bulb output neurons, was far superior at decoding odor identity as well as novelty compared to all the other brain regions. This is perhaps surprising because the other primary sensory region - the piriform cortex - has been thought to be the canonical site for representing odor identity. A vast majority of studies have focused on aPCx, but direct comparisons between odor coding in the AON and aPCx are rare. The experimental design of this current study allowed the authors to do so and the AON was found to convincingly outperform aPCx. Although this result goes against the canonical model, it is consistent with a few recent studies including one that predicted this outcome based on anatomical and functional comparisons between the AON-projecting tufted cells vs. the aPCx-projecting mitral cells in the olfactory bulb.

      Future experiments are needed to probe the circuit mechanisms underlying the differential importance of the two primary olfactory cortices, as well as their potential causal roles in odor identification. Moreover, future work should test whether the decoding accuracy of odor identity and experience from neural data (as reported here) can predict the causal contributions of these regions, as revealed through perturbations during behavioral tasks that explicitly probe odor identification and/or experience.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript investigates how olfactory representations are transformed along the cortico-hippocampal pathway in mice during a non-associative learning paradigm involving novel and familiar odors. By recording single-unit activity in several key brain regions (AON, aPCx, LEC, CA1, and SUB), the authors aim to elucidate how stimulus identity and experience are encoded and how these representations change across the pathway.

      The study addresses an important question in sensory neuroscience regarding the interplay between sensory processing and signaling novelty/familiarity. It provides insights into how the brain processes and retains sensory experiences, suggesting that the earlier stations in the olfactory pathway, the AON aPCx, play a central role in detecting novelty and encoding odor, while areas deeper into the pathway (LEC, CA1 & Sub) are more sparse and encodes odor identity but not novelty/familiarity. However, there are several concerns related to methodology, data interpretation, and the strength of the conclusions drawn.

      Strengths:

      The authors combine the use of modern tools to obtain high-density recordings from large populations of neurons at different stages of the olfactory system (although mostly one region at a time) with elegant data analyses to study an important and interesting question.

      Weaknesses:

      The first and biggest problem I have with this paper is that it is very confusing, and the results seem to be all over the place. In some parts, it seems like the AON and aPCx are more sensitive to novelty; in others, it seems the other way around. I find their metrics confusing and unconvincing. For example, the example cells in Figure 1C shows an AON neuron with a very low spontaneous firing rate and a CA1 with a much higher firing rate, but the opposite is true in Fig. 2A. So, what are we to make of Fig. 2C that shows the difference in firing rates between novel vs. familiar odors measured as a difference in spikes/sec. The meaning of this is unclear. The authors could have used a difference in Z-scored responses to normalize different baseline activity levels. (This is just one example of a problem with the methodology.)

      There are a lot of high-level data analyses (e.g., decoding, analyzing decoding errors, calculating mutual information, calculating distances in state space, etc.) but very little neural data (except for Fig. 2C, and see my comment above about how this is flawed). So, if responses to novel vs. familiar odors are different in the AON and aPCx, how are they different? Why is decoding accuracy better for novel odors in CA1 but better for familiar odors in SUB (Fig. 3A)? The authors identify a small subset of neurons that have unusually high weights in the SVM analyses that contribute to decoding novelty, but they don't tell us which neurons these are and how they are responding differently to novel vs. familiar odors.

      The authors call AON and aPCx "primary sensory cortices" and LEC, CA1, and Sub "multisensory areas". This is a straw man argument. For example, we now know that PCx encodes multimodal signals (Poo et al. 2021, Federman et al., 2024; Kehl et al., 2024), and LEC receives direct OB inputs, which has traditionally been the criterion for being considered a "primary olfactory cortical area". So, this terminology is outdated and wrong, and although it suits the authors' needs here in drawing distinctions, it is simplistic and not helpful moving forward.

      Why not simply report z-scored firing rates for all neurons as a function of trial number? (e.g., Jacobson & Friedrich, 2018). Fig. 2C is not sufficient. For example, in the Discussion, they say, "novel stimuli caused larger increases in firing rates than familiar stimuli" (L. 270), but what does this mean? Odors typically increase the firing in some neurons and suppress firing in others. Where does the delta come from? Is this because novel odors more strongly activate neurons that increase their firing or because familiar odors more strongly suppress neurons?

      Ls. 122-124 - If cells in AON and aPCx responded the same way to novel and familiar odors, then we would say that they only encode for odor and not at all for experience. So, I don't understand why the authors say these areas code for a "mixed representation of chemical identity and experience." "On the other hand," if LEC, CA1, and SUB are odor selective and only encode novel odors, then these areas, not AON and aPCx, are the jointly encoding chemical identity and experience. Also, I do not understand why, here, they say that AON and PCx respond to both while LEC, CA1, and SUB were selective for novel stimuli, but the authors then go on to argue that novelty is encoded in the AON and PCx, but not in the LEC, CA1, and SUB.

      Ls. 132-140 - As presented in the text and the figure, this section is unclear and confusing. Their use of the word "shuffled" is a major source of this confusion, because this typically is the control that produces outcomes at chance level. More importantly, it seems as though they did the wrong analysis here. A better way to do this analysis is to train on some of the odors and test on an untrained odor (i.e., what Bernardi et al., 2021 called "cross-condition generalization performance"; CCGP).

      Comments on revisions:

      I think the authors have done an adequate job addressing the reviewers' concerns. Most importantly, I found the first version of the manuscript quite confusing, and the consequent clarifications have addressed this issue.

      In several cases, I see their point, while I still disagree with whether they made the best decisions. However, the issues here do not fundamentally change the big-picture outcome, and if they want to dig in with their approaches (e.g., only using auROC or just reporting delta firing rates without any normalization), it's their choice.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In this manuscript, the authors investigate how odor-evoked neural activity is modulated by experience within the olfactory-hippocampal network. The authors perform extracellular recordings in the anterior olfactory nucleus (AON), the anterior piriform (aPCx) and lateral entorhinal cortex (LEC), the hippocampus (CA1) and the subiculum (SUB), in naïve mice and in mice repeatedly exposed to the same odorants. They determine the response properties of individual neurons and use population decoding analyses to assess the effect of experience on odor information coding across these regions.

      The authors' findings show that odor identity is represented in all recorded areas, but that the response magnitude and selectivity of neurons are differentially modulated by experience across the olfactory-hippocampal pathway.

      Overall, this work represents a valuable multi-region data set of odor-evoked neural activity. However, a few limitations in experimental design and analysis restrict the conclusions that can be drawn from this study.

      Main limitations:

      The authors use a non-associative learning paradigm - repeated odor exposure - to test how experience modulates odor responses along the olfactory-hippocampal pathway. While repeated odor exposure clearly modulates sampling behavior and odor-evoked neural activity, the relevance of this modulation across different brain areas remains difficult to assess.

      The authors discuss the olfactory-hippocampal pathway as a transition from primary sensory (AON, aPCx) to associative areas (LEC, CA1, SUB). While this is reasonable, given the known circuit connectivity, other interpretations are possible. For example, AON, aPCx, and LEC receive direct inputs from the olfactory bulb ('primary cortex'), while CA1 and SUB do not; AON receives direct top-down inputs from CA1 ('associative cortex'), while aPCx does not. In fact, the data presented in this manuscript do not appear to support a consistent transformation from sensory to associative, as implied by the authors.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this important study, the authors characterized the transformation of neural representations of olfactory stimuli from the primary sensory cortex to multisensory regions in the medial temporal lobe and investigated how they were affected by non-associative learning. The authors used high-density silicon probe recordings from five different cortical regions while familiar vs. novel odors were presented to a head-restrained mouse. This is a timely study because unlike other sensory systems (e.g., vision), the progressive transformation of olfactory information is still poorly understood. The authors report that both odor identity and experience are encoded by all of these five cortical areas but nonetheless some themes emerge. Single neuron tuning of odor identity is broad in the sensory cortices but becomes narrowly tuned in hippocampal regions. Furthermore, while experience affects neuronal response magnitudes in early sensory cortices, it changes the proportion of active neurons in hippocampal regions. Thus, this study is an important step forward in the ongoing quest to understand how olfactory information is progressively transformed along the olfactory pathway.

      The study is well-executed. The direct comparison of neuronal representations from five different brain regions is impressive. Conclusions are based on single neuronal level as well as population level decoding analyses. Among all the reported results, one stands out for being remarkably robust. The authors show that the anterior olfactory nucleus (AON), which receives direct input from the olfactory bulb output neurons, was far superior at decoding odor identity as well as novelty compared to all the other brain regions. This is perhaps surprising because the other primary sensory region - the piriform cortex - has been thought to be the canonical site for representing odor identity. A vast majority of studies have focused on aPCx, but direct comparisons between odor coding in the AON and aPCx are rare. The experimental design of this current study allowed the authors to do so and the AON was found to convincingly outperform aPCx. Although this result goes against the canonical model, it is consistent with a few recent studies including one that predicted this outcome based on anatomical and functional comparisons between the AON-projecting tufted cells vs. the aPCx-projecting mitral cells in the olfactory bulb (Chae, Banerjee et. al. 2022). Future experiments are needed to probe the circuit mechanisms that generate this important difference between the two primary olfactory cortices as well as their potential causal roles in odor identification.

      The authors were also interested in how familiarity vs. novelty affects neuronal representation across all these brain regions. One weakness of this study is that neuronal responses were not measured during the process of habituation. Neuronal responses were measured after four days of daily exposure to a few odors (familiar) and then some other novel odors were introduced. This creates a confound because the novel vs. familiar stimuli are different odorants and that itself can lead to drastic differences in evoked neural responses. Although the authors try to rule out this confound by doing a clever decoding and Euclidian distance analysis, an alternate more straightforward strategy would have been to measure neuronal activity for each odorant during the process of habituation.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript investigates how olfactory representations are transformed along the cortico-hippocampal pathway in mice during a non-associative learning paradigm involving novel and familiar odors. By recording single-unit activity in several key brain regions (AON, aPCx, LEC, CA1, and SUB), the authors aim to elucidate how stimulus identity and experience are encoded and how these representations change across the pathway.

      The study addresses an important question in sensory neuroscience regarding the interplay between sensory processing and signaling novelty/familiarity. It provides insights into how the brain processes and retains sensory experiences, suggesting that the earlier stations in the olfactory pathway, the AON aPCx, play a central role in detecting novelty and encoding odor, while areas deeper into the pathway (LEC, CA1 & Sub) are more sparse and encodes odor identity but not novelty/familiarity. However, there are several concerns related to methodology, data interpretation, and the strength of the conclusions drawn.

      Strengths:

      The authors combine the use of modern tools to obtain high-density recordings from large populations of neurons at different stages of the olfactory system (although mostly one region at a time) with elegant data analyses to study an important and interesting question.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The first and biggest problem I have with this paper is that it is very confusing, and the results seem to be all over the place. In some parts, it seems like the AON and aPCx are more sensitive to novelty; in others, it seems the other way around. I find their metrics confusing and unconvincing. For example, the example cells in Figure 1C show an AON neuron with a very low spontaneous firing rate and a CA1 with a much higher firing rate, but the opposite is true in Figure 2A. So, what are we to make of Figure 2C that shows the difference in firing rates between novel vs. familiar odors measured as a difference in spikes/sec. This seems nearly meaningless. The authors could have used a difference in Z-scored responses to normalize different baseline activity levels. (This is just one example of a problem with the methodology.)

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concerns regarding clarity and methodology. It is less clear why all neurons in a given brain area should have similar firing rates. Anatomically defined brain areas typically comprise of multiple cell types, which can have diverse baseline firing rates. Since we computed absolute firing rate differences per neuron (i.e., novel vs. familiar odor responses within the same neuron), baseline differences across neurons do not have a major impact.

      The suggestion to use Z-scores instead of absolute firing rate differences is well taken. However, Z-scoring assumes that the underlying data are normally distributed, which is not the case in our dataset. Specifically, when analyzing odor-evoked firing rates on a per-neuron basis, only 4% of neurons exhibit a normal distribution. In cases of skewed distributions, Z-scoring can distort the data by exaggerating small variations, leading to misleading conclusions. We acknowledge that different analysis methods exist, we believe that our chosen approach best reflects the properties of the dataset and avoids potential misinterpretations introduced by inappropriate normalization techniques.

      (2) There are a lot of high-level data analyses (e.g., decoding, analyzing decoding errors, calculating mutual information, calculating distances in state space, etc.) but very little neural data (except for Figure 2C, and see my comment above about how this is flawed). So, if responses to novel vs. familiar odors are different in the AON and aPCx, how are they different? Why is decoding accuracy better for novel odors in CA1 but better for familiar odors in SUB (Figure 3A)? The authors identify a small subset of neurons that have unusually high weights in the SVM analyses that contribute to decoding novelty, but they don't tell us which neurons these are and how they are responding differently to novel vs. familiar odors.

      We performed additional analyses to address the reviewer’s feedback (Figures 2C-E and lines 118-132) and added more single-neuron data (Figures 1, S3 and S4).

      (3) The authors call AON and aPCx "primary sensory cortices" and LEC, CA1, and Sub "multisensory areas". This is a straw man argument. For example, we now know that PCx encodes multimodal signals (Poo et al. 2021, Federman et al., 2024; Kehl et al., 2024), and LEC receives direct OB inputs, which has traditionally been the criterion for being considered a "primary olfactory cortical area". So, this terminology is outdated and wrong, and although it suits the authors' needs here in drawing distinctions, it is simplistic and not helpful moving forward.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the classification of brain regions as “primary sensory” versus “multisensory.” Of note, the cited studies (Poo et al., 2021; Federman et al., 2024; Kehl et al., 2024) focus on posterior PCx (pPCx), while our recordings were conducted in very anterior section of anterior PCx. The aPCx and pPCx have distinct patterns of connectivity, both anatomically and functionally. To the best of our knowledge, there is no evidence for multimodal responses in aPCx, whereas there is for LEC, CA1 and SUB. Furthermore, our distinction is not based on a connectivity argument, as the reviewer suggests, but on differences in the α-Poisson ratio (Figure 1E and F).

      To avoid confusion due to definitions of what constitutes a “primary sensory” region, we adopted a more neutral description throughout the manuscript.

      (4) Why not simply report z-scored firing rates for all neurons as a function of trial number? (e.g., Jacobson & Friedrich, 2018). Figure 2C is not sufficient.

      Regarding z-scores, please see response to 1). We further added a figure showing responses of all neurons to novel stimuli (using ROC instead of z-scoring, as described previously (e.g. Cohen et al. Nature 2012). We added the following figure to the supplementary for the completeness of the analysis (S2E).

      For example, in the Discussion, they say, "novel stimuli caused larger increases in firing rates than familiar stimuli" (L. 270), but what does this mean?

      This means that on average, the population of neurons exhibit higher firing rates in response to novel odors compared to familiar ones.

      Odors typically increase the firing in some neurons and suppress firing in others. Where does the delta come from? Is this because novel odors more strongly activate neurons that increase their firing or because familiar odors more strongly suppress neurons?

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable feedback and extended the characterization of firing rate properties, including a separate analysis of neurons i) significantly excited by odorants, ii) significantly inhibited by odorants and iii) not responsive to odorants. We added the analysis and corresponding discussion to the main manuscript (Figures 2C-E and lines 118-132)

      (5) Lines 122-124 - If cells in AON and aPCx responded the same way to novel and familiar odors, then we would say that they only encode for odor and not at all for experience. So, I don't understand why the authors say these areas code for a "mixed representation of chemical identity and experience." "On the other hand," if LEC, CA1, and SUB are odor selective and only encode novel odors, then these areas, not AON and aPCx, are the jointly encoding chemical identity and experience. Also, I do not understand why, here, they say that AON and PCx respond to both while LEC, CA1, and SUB were selective for novel stimuli, but the authors then go on to argue that novelty is encoded in the AON and PCx, but not in the LEC, CA1, and SUB.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s request for clarification. Throughout the brain areas we studied, odorant identity and experience can be decoded. However, the way information is represented is different between regions. We acknowledge that that “mixed” representation is a misleading term and removed it from the manuscript.

      In AON and aPCx, neurons significantly respond to both novel and familiar odors. However, the magnitude of their responses to novel and familiar odors is sufficiently distinct to allow for decoding of odor experience (i.e., whether an odor is novel or familiar). Moreover, novelty engages more neurons in encoding the stimulus (Figure 2D). In neural space, the position of an odor’s representation in AON and aPCx shifts depending on whether it is novel or familiar, meaning that experience modifies the neural representation of odor identity. This suggests that in these regions the two representations are intertwined.

      In contrast, some neurons in LEC, CA1, and SUB exhibit responses to novel odors, but few neurons respond to familiar odors at all. This suggests a more selective encoding of novelty.

      (6) Lines 132-140 - As presented in the text and the figure, this section is poorly written and confusing. Their use of the word "shuffled" is a major source of this confusion, because this typically is the control that produces outcomes at the chance level. More importantly, they did the wrong analysis here. The better and, I think, the only way to do this analysis correctly is to train on some of the odors and test on an untrained odor (i.e., what Bernardi et al., 2021 called "cross-condition generalization performance"; CCGP).

      We appreciate the feedback and thank the reviewer for the recommendation to implement cross-condition generalization performance (CCGP) as used in Bernardi et al., 2020. We acknowledge that the term "shuffled" may have caused confusion, as it typically refers to control analyses producing chance-level outcomes. In our case, by "shuffling" we shuffled the identity of novel and familiar odors to assess how much the decoder relies on odor identity when distinguishing novelty. This test provided insight into how novelty-based structure exists within neural activity beyond random grouping but does not directly assess generalization.

      As suggested, we used CCGP to measure how well novelty-related representations generalize across different odors. Our findings show that in AON and aPCx, novelty-related information is indeed highly generalizable, supporting the idea that these regions encode novelty in a less odor-selective manner (Figure 2K).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      In this manuscript, the authors investigate how odor-evoked neural activity is modulated by experience within the olfactory-hippocampal network. The authors perform extracellular recordings in the anterior olfactory nucleus (AON), the anterior piriform (aPCx) and lateral entorhinal cortex (LEC), the hippocampus (CA1), and the subiculum (SUB), in naïve mice and in mice repeatedly exposed to the same odorants. They determine the response properties of individual neurons and use population decoding analyses to assess the effect of experience on odor information coding across these regions.

      The authors' findings show that odor identity is represented in all recorded areas, but that the response magnitude and selectivity of neurons are differentially modulated by experience across the olfactory-hippocampal pathway.

      Overall, this work represents a valuable multi-region data set of odor-evoked neural activity. However, limitations in the interpretability of odor experience of the behavioral paradigm, and limitations in experimental design and analysis, restrict the conclusions that can be drawn from this study.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Some suggestions, in no particular order, to further improve the manuscript:

      (1) The example neuronal responses for CA1 and SUB in Figure 1 are not very inspiring. To my eyes, the odor period response is not that different from the baseline period. In general, a thorough characterization of firing rate properties during the odor period between the different brain regions would be informative.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable feedback. We have replaced the example neurons from CA1 and SUB in Figure 1C. We further extended the characterization of firing rate properties, including a separate analysis of neurons i) significantly excited by odorants, ii) significantly inhibited by odorants and iii) not responsive to odorants. We added the analysis and corresponding discussion to the main manuscript (Figures 2C-E and lines 118-132)

      (2) For the summary in Figure 1, why not show neuronal responses as z-scored firing rates as opposed to auROC?

      We chose to use auROC instead of z-scored firing rates due to the non-normality of the dataset, which can distort results when using z-scores. Specifically, z-scoring can exaggerate small deviations in neurons with low responsiveness, potentially leading to misleading conclusions. auROC provides a more robust measure of response change that is less sensitive to these distortions because it does not assume any specific distribution. This approach has been used previously (e.g. Cohen et al. 2012, Nature).

      (3) To study novelty, the authors presented odorants that were not used during four days of habituation. But this design makes it hard to dissociate odor identity from novelty. Why not track the response of the same odorants during the habituation process itself?

      We respectfully disagree with the argument that using different stimuli as novel and familiar constitutes a confound in our analysis. In our study, we used multiple different, structurally dissimilar single molecule chemicals which were randomly assigned to novel and familiar categories in each animal. If individual stimuli did cause “drastic differences in evoked neural responses”, these would be evenly distributed between novel and familiar stimuli. It is therefore extremely unlikely that the clear differences we observed between novel and familiar conditions and between brain areas can be attributed to the contribution of individual stimuli, in particular given our analyses was performed at the population level. In fact, we observed that responses between novel and familiar conditions were qualitatively very similar in the short time window after odor onset (Figure 1G and H).

      Importantly, the goal of this study was to investigate the impact of long-term habituation over more than 4 days, rather than short term habituation during one behavioral session. However, tracking the activity of large numbers of neurons across multiple days presents a significant technical challenge, due to the difficulty of identifying stable single-unit recordings over extended periods of time with sufficient certainty. Tools that facilitate tracking have recently been developed (e.g. Yuan AX et al., Elife. 2024) and it will be interesting to apply them to our dataset in the future.

      (4) Since novel odors lead to greater sniffing and sniffing strongly influences firing rates in the olfactory system, the authors decided to focus on a 400 ms window with similar sniffing rates for both novel vs. familiar odors. Although I understand the rationale for this choice, I worry that this is too restrictive, and it may not capture the full extent of the phenomenology.

      Could the authors model the effect of sniffing on firing rates of individual neurons from the data, and then check whether the odor response for novel context can be fully explained just by increased sniffing or not?

      It is an interesting suggestion to extend the window of analysis and observe how responses evolve with sniffing (and other behavioral reactions). To address this, we added an additional figure to the supplementary material, showing the mean responses of all neurons to novel stimuli during the entire odor presentation window (Fig. S1B).

      As suggested, we further created a Generalized Linear Model (GLM) for the entire 2s odor stimulation period, incorporating sniffing and novelty as independent variables. As expected, sniffing had a dominant impact on firing rate in all brain areas. A smaller proportion of neurons was modulated by novelty or by the interaction between novelty x breathing, suggesting the entrainment of neural activity by sniffing during the response to novel odors. These results support our decision to focus the analysis on the early 400ms window in order to dissociate the effects of novelty and behavioral responses. Taken together, our results suggest that odorant responses are modulated by novelty early during odorant processing, whereas at later stages sniffing becomes the predominant factor driving firing (Figure S2C-D).

      (5) The authors conclude that aPCx has a subset of neurons dedicated to familiar odors based on the distribution of SVM weights in Figure 3D. To me, this is the weakest conclusion of the paper because although significant, the effect size is paltry; the central tendencies are hardly different for the two conditions in aPCx. Could the authors show the PSTHs of some of these neurons to make this point more convincing?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the effect size. To strengthen our conclusion, we now include PSTHs of representative neurons in the least 10% and best 10% of neuronal population based on the SVM analysis (Figures S3 and S4). We hope this provides more clarity and support for the interpretation that there is a subset of neurons in aPCx that show greater sensitivity to familiar odors, despite the relatively modest central tendency differences.

      In the revised manuscript, we discuss the effect size more explicitly in the text to provide context for its significance (lines 193 - 195).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) The authors only talk about "responsive" neurons. Does this include neurons whose activity increases significantly (activated) and neurons whose activity decreases (suppressed)?

      Yes, the term "responsive" refers to neurons whose activity either increases significantly (excited) or decreases (inhibited) in response to the odor stimuli. We performed additional analyses to characterize responses separately for the different groups (Figure 2C-E and lines 118-132).

      (2) Line 54 - The Schoonover paper doesn't show that cells lose their responses to odors, but rather that the population of cells that respond to odors changes with time. That is, population responses don't become more sparse

      The fact that “the population of cells that respond to odors changes with time”, implies that some neurons lose their responsiveness (e.g. unit 2 in Figure 1 of Schoonover et al., 2021), while others become responsive (e.g. unit 1 in Figure 1 of Schoonover et al., 2021). Frequent responses reduce drift rate (Figure 4 of Schoonover et al., 2021), thus fewer neurons loose or gain responsiveness. We have revised the manuscript to clarify this.

      (3) Line 104 - "Recurrent" is incorrectly used here. I think the authors mean "repeated" or something more like that.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We replaced "recurrent" with "repeated".

      (4) Figure 3D - What is the scale bar here?

      We apologize for the accidental omission. The scale bar was be added to Figure 3D in the revised version of the manuscript.

      (5) Line 377 - They say they lowered their electrodes to "200 um/s per second." This must be incorrect. Is this just a typo, or is it really 200 um/s, because that's really fast?

      Thank you for pointing this out. It was 20 to 60 um/s, the change has been made in the manuscript.

      (6) Line 431: The authors say they used auROC to calculate changes in firing rates (which I think is only shown in Figure 1D). Note that auROC measures the discriminability of two distributions, not the strength or change in the strength of response.

      Indeed we used auROC to measure the discriminability of firing between baseline and during stimulus response. We have corrected the wording in the methods.

      (7) Figure 1B: The anatomical locations of the five areas they recorded from are straightforward, and this figure is not hugely helpful. However, the reader would benefit tremendously by including an experimental schematic. As is, we needed to scour the text and methods sections to understand exactly what they did when.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We included an experimental schematic in the supplementary material.

      (8) Figure 1F(left): This plot is much less useful without showing a pre-odor window, even if only times after the odor onset were used for calculation alpha

      We appreciate this concern, however the goal of Figure 1F is to illustrate the meaning of the alpha value itself. We chose not to include a pre-odor window comparison to avoid confusing the reader.

      (9) Figure 2A: What are the bar plots above the raster plots? Are these firing rates? Are the bars overlaid or stacked? Where is the y-axis scale bar?

      The bar plots above the raster plots represent a histogram of the spike count/trials over time, with a bin width of 50 ms. These bars are overlaid on the raster plot. We will include a y-axis scale bar in the revised figure to clarify the presentation.

      (10) Figure 4G: This makes no sense. First, the Y axis is supposed to measure standard deviation, but the axis label is spikes/s. Second, if responses in the AON are much less reliable than responses in "deeper" areas, why is odor decoding in AON so much better than in the other areas?

      We acknowledge the error in the axis label, and we will correct it to indicate the correct units. AON has a larger response variability but also larger responses magnitudes, which can explain the higher decoding accuracy.

      (11) From the model and text, one predicts that the lifetime sparseness increases along the pathway. The authors should use this metric as well/instead of "odor selectivity" because of problems with arbitrary thresholding.

      We acknowledge that lifetime sparseness, often computed using lifetime kurtosis, can be an informative measure of selectivity. However, we believe it has limitations that make it less suitable for our analysis. One key issue is that lifetime sparseness does not account for the stability of responses across multiple presentations of the same stimulus. In contrast, our odor selectivity measure incorporates trial-to-trial variability by considering responses over 10 trials and assessing significance using a Wilcoxon test compared to baseline. While the choice of a p-value threshold (e.g., 0.05) is somewhat arbitrary, it is a widely accepted statistical convention. Additionally, lifetime sparseness does not account for excitatory and inhibitory responses. For example, if a neuron X is strongly inhibited by odor A, strongly excited by odor B, and unresponsive to odors C and D, lifetime sparseness would classify it as highly selective for odor B, without capturing its inhibitory selectivity for odor A. The lifetime sparseness will be higher than if X was simply unresponsive for A.

      Our odor selectivity measure addresses this by considering both excitation and inhibition as potential responses. Thus, while lifetime sparseness could provide a useful complementary perspective in another type of dataset, it does not fully capture the dynamics of odor selectivity here.

      Author response 1.

      Lifetime Kurtosis distribution per region.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Main points:

      (1) The authors use a non-associative learning paradigm - repeated odor exposure - to test how experience modulates odor responses along the olfactory-hippocampal pathway. While repeated odor exposure clearly modulates odor-evoked neural activity, the relevance of this modulation and its differential effect across different brain areas are difficult to assess in the absence of any behavioral read-outs.

      Our experimental paradigm involves a robust, reliable behavioral readout of non-associative learning. Novel olfactory stimuli evoke a well-characterized orienting reaction, which includes a multitude of physiological reactions, including exploratory sniffing, facial movements and pupil dilation (Modirshanechi et al., Trends Neuroscience 2023). In our study, we focused on exploration sniffing.

      Compared to associative learning, non-associative learning might have received less attention. However, it is critically important because it forms the foundation for how organisms adapt to their environment through experience without forming associations. This is highlighted by the fact that non-instrumental stimuli can be remembered in large number (Standing, 1973) and with remarkable detail (Brady et al., 2008). While non-associative learning can thus create vast, implicit memory of stimuli in the environment, it is unclear how stimulus representations reflect this memory. Our study contributes to answering this question. We describe the impact of experience on olfactory sensory representations and reveal a transformation of representations from olfactory cortical to hippocampal structures. Our findings also indicate that sensory responses to familiar stimuli persist within sensory cortical and hippocampal regions, even after spontaneous orienting behaviors habituated. Further studies involving experimental manipulation techniques are needed to elucidate the causal mechanisms underlying the formation of stimulus memory during non-associative learning.

      (2) The authors discuss the olfactory-hippocampal pathway as a transition from primary sensory (AON, aPCx) to associative areas (LEC, CA1, SUB). While this is reasonable, given the known circuit connectivity, other interpretations are possible. For example, AON, aPCx, and LEC receive direct inputs from the olfactory bulb ('primary cortex'), while CA1 and SUB do not; AON receives direct top-down inputs from CA1 ('associative cortex'), while aPCx does not. In fact, the data presented in this manuscript does not appear to support a consistent, smooth transformation from sensory to associative, as implied by the authors (e.g. Figure 4A, F, and G).

      Thank you for this insightful comment. Indeed, there are complexities in the circuitry, and the relationships between different areas are not linear. We believe that AON and aPCx are distinctly different from LEC, CA1 and SUB, as the latter areas have been shown to integrate multimodal sensory information. To avoid confusion due to definitions of what constitutes a “primary sensory” region, we adopted a more neutral description throughout the manuscript. We also removed the term “gradual” to describe the transition of neural representations from olfactory cortical to hippocampal areas.

      (3) The analysis of odor-evoked responses is focused on a 400 ms window to exclude differences in sniffing behavior. This window spans 200 ms before and after the first inhalation after odor onset. Inhalation onset initiates neural odor responses - why do the authors include neural data before inhalation onset?

      The reason to include a brief time window prior to odor onset is to account for what is often called “partical” sniffs. In our experimental setup, odor delivery is not triggered by the animal’s inhalation. Therefore, it can happen that an animal has just begun to inhale when the stimulus is delivered. In this case, the animal is exposed to odorant molecules prior to the first complete inhalation after odor onset. We acknowledge that this limits the temporal resolution of our measurements, but it does not affect the comparison of sensory representations between different brain areas.

      It would also be interesting to explore the effect of sniffing behavior (see point 2) on odor-evoked neural activity.

      Thank you for your comment, we performed additional analysis including a GLM to address this question (Figure S2C-D).

      Minor points:

      (4) Figure 2A represents raster plots for 2 neurons per area - it is unclear how to distinguish between the 2 neurons in the plots.

      Figure 2A shows one example neuron per brain area. Each neurons has two raster plot which indicate responses to either a novel (orange) or a familiar stimulus (blue). We have revised the figure caption for clarity.

      (5) Overall, axes should be kept consistent and labeled in more detail. For example, Figure 2H and I are difficult to compare, given that the y-axis changes and that decoding accuracies are difficult to estimate without additional marks on the y-axis.

      Axes are indeed different, because chance level decoding accuracy is different between those two figures. The decoding between novel and familiar odors has a chance level of 0.5, while chance level decoding odors is 0.1 (there are 10 odors to decode the identity from).

      (6) Some parts of the discussion seem only loosely related to the data presented in this manuscript. For example, the statement that 'AON rather than aPCx should be considered as the primary sensory cortex in olfaction' seems out of context. Similarly, it would be helpful to provide data on the stability of subpopulations of neurons tuned to familiar odors, rather than simply speculate that they could be stable. The authors could summarize more speculative statements in an 'Ideas and Speculation' subsection.

      Thank you for your comment. We appreciate your perspective on our hypotheses. We have revised the discussion accordingly. Specifically, we removed the discussion of stable subpopulations, since we have not performed longitudinal tracking in this study.

      (7) The authors should try to reference relevant published work more comprehensively.

      Thank you for your comment. We attempted to include relevant published work without exceeding the limit for references but might have overseen important contributions. We apologize to our colleagues, whose relevant work might not have been cited.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This work provides a fundamental molecular mechanism of how a single enzyme can coordinate the ordered assembly of hyaluronan, a complex polysaccharide, from two different building blocks in an alternating pattern. The authors present compelling evidence by combining high-resolution structural data with rigorous biochemical validation to define the underlying process. Major strengths of the study include the clarity and coherence of the mechanistic insights and the complementary use of structural and functional approaches to address the research question.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript describes critical intermediate reaction steps of a HA synthase at the molecular level; specifically, it examines the 2nd step, polymerization, adding GlcA to GlcNAc to form the initial disaccharide of the repeating HA structure. Unlike the vast majority of known glycosyltransferases, the viral HAS (a convenient proxy extrapolated to resemble the vertebrate forms) uses a single pocket to catalyze both monosaccharide transfer steps. The authors' work illustrates the interactions needed to bind & proof-read the UDP-GlcA using direct and '2nd layer' amino acid residues. This step also allows the HAS to distinguish the two UDP-sugars; this is very important as the enzymes are not known or observed to make homopolymers of only GlcA or GlcNAc, but only make the HA disaccharide repeats GlcNAc-GlcA.

      Strengths:

      Overall, the strengths of this paper lie in its techniques & analysis.

      The authors make significant leaps forward towards understanding this process using a variety of tools and comparisons of wild-type & mutant enzymes. The work is well presented overall with respect to the text and illustrations (especially the 3D representations), and the robustness of the analyses & statistics is also noteworthy.

      Furthermore, the authors make some strides towards creating novel sugar polymers using alternative primers & work with detergent binding to the HAS. The authors tested a wide variety of monosaccharides and several disaccharides for primer activity and observed that GlcA could be added to cellobiose and chitobiose, which are moderately close structural analogs to HA disaccharides. Did the authors also test the readily available HA tetramer (HA4, [GlcA-GlcNAc]2) as a primer in their system? This is a highly recommended experiment; if it works, then this molecule may also be useful for cryo-EM studies of CvHAS as well.

      Weaknesses:

      In the past, another report describing the failed attempt of elongating short primers (HA4 & chitin oligosaccharides larger than the cello- or chitobiose that have activity in this report) with a vertebrate HAS, XlHAS1, an enzyme that seems to behave like the CvHAS ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10473619/); this work should probably be cited and briefly discussed. It may be that the longer primers in the 1999 paper and/or the different construct or isolation specifics (detergent extract vs crude) were not conducive to the extension reaction, as the authors extracted recombinant enzyme.

      There are a few areas that should be addressed for clarity and correctness, especially defining the class of HAS studied here (Class I-NR) as the results may (Class I-R) or may not (Class II) align (see comment (a) below), but overall, a very nicely done body of work that will significantly enhance understanding in the field.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The paper by Stephens and co-workers provides important mechanistic insight into how hyaluronan synthase (HAS) coordinates alternating GlcNAc and GlcA incorporation using a single Type-I catalytic centre. Through cryo-EM structures capturing both "proofreading" and fully "inserted" binding poses of UDP-GlcA, combined with detailed biochemical analysis, the authors show how the enzyme selectively recognizes the GlcA carboxylate, stabilizes substrates through conformational gating, and requires a priming GlcNAc for productive turnover.

      These findings clarify how one active site can manage two chemically distinct donor sugars while simultaneously coupling catalysis to polymer translocation.

      The work also reports a DDM-bound, detergent-inhibited conformation that possibly illuminates features of the acceptor pocket, although this appears to be a purification artefact (it is indeed inhibitory) rather than a relevant biological state.

      Overall, the study convincingly establishes a unified catalytic mechanism for Type-I HAS enzymes and represents a significant advance in understanding HA biosynthesis at the molecular level.

      Strengths:

      There are many strengths.

      This is a multi-disciplinary study with very high-quality cryo-EM and enzyme kinetics (backed up with orthogonal methods of product analysis) to justify the conclusions discussed above.

      Weaknesses:

      There are few weaknesses.

      The abstract and introduction assume a lot of detailed prior knowledge about hyaluronan synthases, and in doing so, risk lessening the readership pool.

      A lot of discussion focuses on detergents (whose presence is totally inhibitory) and transfer to non-biological acceptors (at high concentrations). This risks weakening the manuscript.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This valuable study addresses a question related to how we achieve visual stability across saccadic eye movements. The authors' gaze-contingent fMRI design provides convincing evidence that peripherally presented visual stimuli are represented in foveal visual cortex prior to a saccade. The results will be of interest to vision scientists and behavioural neuroscientists.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigated whether the identity of a peripheral saccade target object is fed back to the foveal retinotopic cortex during saccade preparation, a critical prediction of the foveal prediction hypothesis proposed by Kroell & Rolfs (2022). To achieve this, the authors leveraged a gaze-contingent fMRI paradigm, where the peripheral saccade target was removed before the eyes landed near it, and used multivariate decoding analysis to quantify identity information in the foveal cortex. The results showed that the identity of the saccade target object can be decoded based on foveal cortex activity, despite the fovea never directly viewing the object, and that the foveal feedback representation was similar to passive viewing and not explained by spillover effects. Additionally, exploratory analysis suggested IPS as a candidate region mediating such foveal decodability. Overall, these findings provide neural evidence for the foveal cortex processing the features of the saccade target object, potentially supporting the maintenance of perceptual stability across saccadic eye movements.

      Strengths:

      This study is well-motivated by previous theoretical findings (Kroell & Rolfs, 2022), aiming to provide neural evidence for a potential neural mechanism of trans-saccadic perceptual stability. The question is important, and the gaze-contingent fMRI paradigm is a solid methodological choice for the research goal. The use of stimuli allowing orthogonal decoding of stimulus category vs stimulus shape is a nice strength, and the resulting distinctions in decoded information by brain region are clean. The results will be of interest to readers in the field, and they fill in some untested questions regarding pre-saccadic remapping and foveal feedback.

      Weaknesses:

      The authors have done a nice job addressing the previous weaknesses. The remaining weaknesses / limitations are appropriately discussed in the manuscript. E.g., the use of only 4 unique stimuli in the experiment. The findings are intriguing and relevant to saccadic remapping and foveal feedback, but somewhat limited in terms of the ability to draw theoretical distinctions between these related phenomena.

      Specifics:

      The revised manuscript is much improved in terms of framing and discussion of the prior literature, and the theoretical claims are now stated with appropriate nuance.

      I have two remaining minor suggestions/comments, which the authors may optionally respond to:

      (1) In the parametric modulation analysis, the authors' additional analyses nicely addresses my concern and strengthens the claim. However, the description in the revised manuscript (Pg 7 Ln 190-191) is minimal and may be difficult to grasp what the control analysis is about and how it rules out alternative explanations to the IPS findings. The authors may wish to elaborate on the description in the text.

      (2) Out of curiosity (not badgering): The authors argued that the findings of Harrison et al. (2013) and Szinte et al. (2015) can be explained by feature integration between the currently attended location and its future, post-saccadic location. Couldn't the same argument apply in the current paradigm, where attention at the saccade target gets remapped to the pre-saccadic fovea (see also Rolfs et al., 2011 Fig 5), thus leading to the observed feature remapping?

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper the authors used fMRI to determine whether peripherally-viewed objects could be decoded from foveal cortex, even when the objects themselves were never viewed foveally. Specifically they investigated whether pre-saccadic target attributes (shape, semantic category) could be decoded from foveal cortex. They found that object shape, but not semantic category could be decoded, providing evidence that foveal feedback relies on low-mid-level information. The authors claim that this provides evidence for a mechanism underlying visual stability and object recognition across saccades.

      Strengths:

      I think this is another nice demonstration that peripheral information can be decoded from / is processed in foveal cortex - the methods seem appropriate, and the experiments and analyses carefully conducted, and the main results seem convincing. The paper itself was very clear and well-written.

      Weaknesses:

      Given that foveal feedback has been found in previous studies that don't incorporate saccades, it is still unclear how this mechanism might specifically contribute to stability across saccades, rather than just being a general mechanism that aids the processing/discrimination of peripherally-viewed stimuli. The authors address this point, but I guess whether foveal feedback during fixation and saccade prep are really the same, is ultimately a question that needs more experimental work to disentangle.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The main contributions of this paper are: (1) a replication of the surprising prior finding that information about peripherally-presented stimuli can be decoded from foveal V1 (Williams et al 2008), (2) a new demonstration of cross-decoding between stimuli presented in the periphery and stimuli presented at the fovea, (3) a demonstration that the information present in the fovea is based on shape not semantic category, and (4) a demonstration that the strength of foveal information about peripheral targets is correlated with the univariate response in the same block in IPS.

      Strengths:

      The design and methods appear sound, and finding (2) above is new, and importantly constrains our understanding of this surprising phenomenon. The basic effect investigated here is so surprising that even though it has been replicated several times since it was first reported in 2008, it is useful to replicate it again.

      We thank the reviewer for their summary. While we agree with many points, we would like to respectfully push back on the notion that this work is a replication of Williams et al. (2008). What our findings share with those of Williams is a report of surprising decoding at the fovea without foveal stimulation. Beyond this similarity, we treat these as related but clearly separate findings, for the following reasons:

      (1) Foveal feedback, as shown by Williams et al. (2008) and others during fixation, was only observed during a shape discrimination task, specific to the presented stimulus. Control experiments without such a task (or a color-related task) did not show effects of foveal feedback. In contrast, in the present study, the participants’ task was merely to perform saccades towards stimuli, independently of target features. We thus show that foveal feedback can occur independently of a task related to stimulus features. This dissociation demonstrates that our study must be tapping into something different than reported by Williams.

      (2) In a related study, Kroell and Rolfs (2022, 2025) demonstrated a connection between foveal feedback and saccade preparation, including the temporal details of the onset of this effect before saccade execution, highlighting the close link of this effect to saccade preparation. Here we used a very similar behavioral task to capture this saccade-related effect in neural recordings and investigate how early it occurs and what its nature is. Thus, there is a clear motivation for this study in the context of eye movement preparation that is separate from the previous work by Williams.

      (3) Lastly, decoding in the experimental task was positively associated with activity in FEF and IPS, areas that have been reliably linked to saccade preparation. We have now also performed an additional analysis (see our response to Specific point 2 of Reviewer 2) showing that decoding in the control condition did not show the same association, further supporting the link of foveal feedback to saccade preparation. 

      Despite our emphasis on these critical differences in studies, covert peripheral attention, as required by the task in Williams et al., and saccade preparation in natural vision, as in our study, are tightly coupled processes. Indeed, the task in Williams et al. would, during natural vision, likely involve an eye movement to the peripheral target. While speculative, a parsimonious and ecologically valid explanation is that both ours and earlier studies involve eye movement preparation, for which execution is suppressed, however, in studies enforcing fixation (e.g., Williams et al., 2008). We now discuss this idea of a shared underlying mechanism more extensively in the revised manuscript (pg 8 ln 228-240). 

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The paper, including in the title ("Feedback of peripheral saccade targets to early foveal cortex") seems to assume that the feedback to foveal cortex occurs in conjunction with saccade preparation. However, participants in the original Williams et al (2008) paper never made saccades to the peripheral stimuli. So, saccade preparation is not necessary for this effect to occur. Some acknowledgement and discussion of this prior evidence against the interpretation of the effect as due to saccade preparation would be useful. (e.g., one might argue that saccade preparation is automatic when attending to peripheral stimuli.)

      We agree that the effects Williams et al. showed were not sufficiently discussed in the first version of this manuscript. To more clearly engage with these findings we now introduce saccade related foveal feedback (foveal prediction) and foveal feedback during fixation separately in the introduction (pg 2 ln 46-59).

      We further added another section in the discussion called “Foveal feedback during saccade preparation” in which we discuss how our findings are related to Williams et al. and how they differ (pg 8 ln 211-240). 

      As described in our previous response, we believe that our findings go beyond those described by Williams et al. (2008) and others in significant ways. However, during natural vision, the paradigm used by Williams et al. (2008) would likely be solved using an eye movement. Thus, while participants in Williams et al. (2008) did not execute saccades, it appears plausible that they have prepared saccades. Given the fact that covert peripheral attention and saccade preparation are tightly coupled processes (Kowler et al., 1995, Vis Res; Deubel & Schneider, 1996, Vis Res; Montagnini & Castet, 2007, J Vis; Rolfs & Carrasco, 2012, J Neurosci; Rolfs et al., 2011, Nat Neurosci), their results are parsimoniously explained by saccade preparation (but not execution) to a behaviorally relevant target.

      (2) The most important new finding from this paper is the cross-decodability between stimuli presented in the fovea and stimuli presented in the periphery. This finding should be related to the prior behavioral finding (Yu & Shim, 2016) that when a foveal foil stimulus identical to a peripheral target is presented 150 ms after the onset of the peripheral target, visual discrimination of the peripheral target is improved, and this congruency effect occurred even though participants did not consciously perceive the foveal stimulus (Yu, Q., & Shim, W. M., 2016). Modulating foveal representation can influence visual discrimination in the periphery (Journal of Vision, 16(3), 15-15).

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this highly relevant reference. In the revised version of the manuscript, we now put more emphasis on the finding of cross-decodability (pg 2 ln 60-61). We now also discuss Yu et al.’s finding, which support our conclusion that foveal feedback and direct stimulus presentation share representational formats in early visual areas (pg 9 ln 277-279).

      (3) The prior literature should be laid out more clearly. For example, most readers will not realize that the basic effect of decodability of peripherally-presented stimuli in the fovea was first reported in 2008, and that that original paper already showed that the effect cannot arise from spillover effects from peripheral retinotopic cortex because it was not present in a retinotopic location between the cortical locus corresponding to the peripheral target and the fovea. (For example, this claim on lines 56-57 is not correct: "it remains unknown 1) whether information is fed back all the way to early visual areas".) What is needed is a clear presentation of the prior findings in one place in the introduction to the paper, followed by an articulation and motivation of the new questions addressed in this paper. If I were writing the paper, I would focus on the cross-decodability between foveal and peripheral stimuli, as I think that is the most revealing finding.

      We agree that the structure of the introduction did not sufficiently place our work in the context of prior literature. We have now expanded upon our Introduction section to discuss past studies of saccade- and fixation-related foveal feedback (pg 2 ln 49-59), laying out how this effect has been studied previously. We also removed the claim that "it remains unknown 1) whether information is fed back all the way to early visual areas", where our intention was to specifically focus on foveal prediction. We realize that this was not clear and hence removed this section. Instead, we now place a stronger focus on the cross-decodability finding (pg 2 ln 60-61).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigated whether the identity of a peripheral saccade target object is predictively fed back to the foveal retinotopic cortex during saccade preparation, a critical prediction of the foveal prediction hypothesis proposed by Kroell & Rolfs (2022). To achieve this, the authors leveraged a gaze-contingent fMRI paradigm, where the peripheral saccade target was removed before the eyes landed near it, and used multivariate decoding analysis to quantify identity information in the foveal cortex. The results showed that the identity of the saccade target object can be decoded based on foveal cortex activity, despite the fovea never directly viewing the object, and that the foveal feedback representation was similar to passive viewing and not explained by spillover effects. Additionally, exploratory analysis suggested IPS as a candidate region mediating such foveal decodability. Overall, these findings provide neural evidence for the foveal cortex processing the features of the saccade target object, potentially supporting the maintenance of perceptual stability across saccadic eye movements.

      Strengths:

      This study is well-motivated by previous theoretical findings (Kroell & Rolfs, 2022), aiming to provide neural evidence for a potential neural mechanism of trans-saccadic perceptual stability. The question is important, and the gaze-contingent fMRI paradigm is a solid methodological choice for the research goal. The use of stimuli allowing orthogonal decoding of stimulus category vs stimulus shape is a nice strength, and the resulting distinctions in decoded information by brain region are clean. The results will be of interest to readers in the field, and they fill in some untested questions regarding pre-saccadic remapping and foveal feedback.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive assessment of our study.

      Weaknesses:

      The conclusions feel a bit over-reaching; some strong theoretical claims are not fully supported, and the framing of prior literature is currently too narrow. A critical weakness lies in the inability to test a distinction between these findings (claiming to demonstrate that "feedback during saccade preparation must underlie this effect") and foveal feedback previously found during passive fixation (Williams et al., 2008). Discussions (and perhaps control analysis/experiments) about how these findings are specific to the saccade target and the temporal constraints on these effects are lacking. The relationship between the concepts of foveal prediction, foveal feedback, and predictive remapping needs more thorough treatment. The choice to use only 4 stimuli is justified in the manuscript, but remains an important limitation. The IPS results are intriguing but could be strengthened by additional control analysis. Finally, the manuscript claims the study was pre-registered ("detailing the hypotheses, methodology, and planned analyses prior to data collection"), but on the OSF link provided, there is just a brief summary paragraph, and the website says "there have been no completed registrations of this project".

      We thank the reviewer for these helpful considerations. We agree that some of the claims were not sufficiently supported by the evidence, and in the revised manuscript, we added nuance to those claims (pg 8 ln 211-240). Furthermore, we now address more directly the distinction between foveal feedback during fixation and foveal feedback (foveal prediction) during saccade preparation. In particular, we now describe the literature about these two effects separately in the introduction (pg 2 ln 46-59), and we have added a new section in the discussion (“Foveal feedback during saccade preparation”) that more thoroughly explains why a passive fixation condition would have been unlikely to produce the same results we find (pg 8 ln 211-227). We also adapted the section about “Saccadic remapping or foveal prediction”, clearly delineating foveal prediction from feature remapping and predictive updating of attention pointers. As recommended by the reviewer, we conducted the parametric modulation analyses on the control condition, strengthening the claim that our findings are saccade-related. These results were added as Supplementary Figure 2 and are discussed in (pg 7 ln 190-191) and (pg 8 ln 224-227). 

      Lastly, we would like to apologize about a mistake we made with the pre-registration. We realized that the pre-registration had indeed not been submitted. We have now done so without changing the pre-registration itself, which can be seen from the recent activity of the preregistration (screenshot attached in the end). After consulting an open science expert at the University of Leipzig, we added a note of this mistake to the methods section of the revised manuscript (pg 10 ln 326-332). We could remove reference to this preregistration altogether, but would keep it at the discretion of the editor. 

      Specifics:

      (1) In the eccentricity-dependent decoding results (Figure 2B), are there any statistical tests to support the results being a U-shaped curve? The dip isn't especially pronounced. Is 4 degrees lower than the further ones? Are there alternative methods of quantifying this (e.g., fitting it to a linear and quadratic function)?

      We statistically tested the U-shaped relationship using a weighted quadratic regression, which showed significant positive curvature for decoding between fovea and periphery in all early visual areas (V1: t(27) = 3.98, p = 0.008, V2: t(27) = 3.03, p = 0.02, V3: t(27)= 2.776, p = 0.025, one-sided). We now report these results in the revised manuscript (pg 5 ln 137-138).

      (2) In the parametric modulation analysis, the evidence for IPS being the only region showing stronger fovea vs peripheral beta values was weak, especially given the exploratory nature of this analysis. The raw beta value can reflect other things, such as global brain fluctuations or signal-to-noise ratio. I would also want to see the results of the same analysis performed on the control condition decoding results.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion and repeated the same parametric modulation analysis on the control condition to assess the influence of potential confounds on the overall beta values (Supplementary Figure 2). The results show a negative association between foveal decoding and FEF and IPS (likely because eye movements in the control condition lead to less foveal presentation of the stimulus) and a positive association with LO. Peripheral decoding was not associated with significant changes in any of the ROIs, indicating that global brain fluctuations alone are not responsible for the effects reported in the experimental condition. The results of this analysis thus show a specific positive association of IPS activity with the experimental condition, not the control condition, which is in line with the idea that the foveal feedback effect reported in this study may be related to saccade preparation.

      (3) Many of the claims feel overstated. There is an emphasis throughout the manuscript (including claims in the abstract) that these findings demonstrate foveal prediction, specifically that "image-specific feedback during saccade preparation must underlie this effect." To my understanding, one of the key aspects of the foveal prediction phenomenon that ties it closely to trans-saccadic stability is its specificity to the saccade target but not to other objects in the environment. However, it is not clear to what degree the observed findings are specific to saccade preparation and the peripheral saccade target. Should the observers be asked to make a saccade to another fixation location, or simply maintain passive fixation, will foveal retinotopic cortex similarly contain the object's identity information? Without these control conditions, the results are consistent with foveal prediction, but do not definitively demonstrate that as the cause, so claims need to be toned down.

      We fully agree with the reviewer and toned down claims about foveal prediction. We engage with the questions raised by the reviewer more thoroughly in the new discussion section “Foveal feedback during saccade preparation”.

      In addition, we agree that another condition in which subjects make a saccade towards a different location would have been a great addition that we also considered, but due to concerns with statistical power did not add. While including such a condition exceeds the scope of the current study, we included this limitation in the Discussion section (pg 10 ln 316) and hope that future studies will address this question.

      (4) Another critical aspect is the temporal locus of the feedback signal. In the paradigm, the authors ensured that the saccade target object was never foveated via the gaze-contingent procedure and a conservative data exclusion criterion, thus enabling the test of feedback signals to foveal retinotopic cortex. However, due to the temporal sluggishness of fMRI BOLD signals, it is unclear when the feedback signal arrives at the foveal retinotopic cortex. In other words, it is possible that the feedback signal arrives after the eyes land at the saccade target location. This possibility is also bolstered by Chambers et al. (2013)'s TMS study, where they found that TMS to the foveal cortex at 350-400 ms SOA interrupts the peripheral discrimination task. The authors should qualify their claims of the results occurring "during saccade preparation" (e.g., pg 1 ln 22) throughout the manuscript, and discuss the importance of temporal dynamics of the effect in supporting stability across saccades.

      We fully agree that the sluggishness of the fMRI signal presents an important challenge in investigating foveal feedback. We have now included this limitation in the discussion (pg 10 ln 306-318). We also clarify that our argument connects to previous studies investigating the temporal dynamics of foveal feedback using similar tasks (pg 10 ln 313-316). Specifically, in their psychophysical work, Kroell and Rolfs (2022) and (2025) showed that foveal feedback occurs before saccade execution with a peak around 80 ms before the eye movement. 

      (5) Relatedly, the claims that result in this paradigm reflect "activity exclusively related to predictive feedback" and "must originate from predictive rather than direct visual processes" (e.g., lines 60-65 and throughout) need to be toned down. The experimental design nicely rules out direct visual foveal stimulation, but predictive feedback is not the only alternative to that. The activation could also reflect mental imagery, visual working memory, attention, etc. Importantly, the experiment uses a block design, where the same exact image is presented multiple times over the block, and the activation is taken for the block as a whole. Thus, while at no point was the image presented at the fovea, there could still be more going on than temporally-specific and saccade-specific predictive feedback.

      We agree that those claims could have misled the reader. Our intention was to state that the activation originates from feedback rather than direct foveal stimulation because of the nature of the design. We have now clarified these statements (pg 2 ln 65) and also included a discussion of other effects including imagery and working memory in the limitations section (pg 10 ln 306-313).

      (6) The authors should avoid using the terms foveal feedback and foveal prediction interchangeably. To me, foveal feedback refers to the findings of Williams et al. (2008), where participants maintained passive fixation and discriminated objects in the periphery (see also Fan et al., 2016), whereas foveal prediction refers to the neural mechanism hypothesized by Kroell & Rolfs (2022), occurring before a saccade to the target object and contains task irrelevant feature information.

      We agree, and we have now adopted a clearer distinction between these terms, referring to foveal prediction only when discussing the distinct predictive nature of the effect discovered by Kroell and Rolfs (2022). Otherwise we referred to this effect as foveal feedback.

      (7) More broadly, the treatment of how foveal prediction relates to saccadic remapping is overly simplistic. The authors seem to be taking the perspective that remapping is an attentional phenomenon marked by remapping of only attentional/spatial pointers, but this is not the classic or widely accepted definition of remapping. Within the field of saccadic remapping, it is an ongoing debate whether (/how/where/when) information about stimulus content is remapped alongside spatial location (and also whether the attentional pointer concept is even neurophysiologically viable). This relationship between saccadic remapping and foveal prediction needs clarification and deeper treatment, in both the introduction and discussion.

      We thank the reviewer for their remarks. We reformulated the discussion section on “Saccadic remapping or foveal prediction” to include the nuances about spatial and feature remapping laid out in the reviewer’s comment (pg 8-9 ln 241-269). We also put a stronger focus on the special role the fovea seems to be playing regarding the feedback of visual features (pg 8-9 ln 265-269).

      (8) As part of this enhanced discussion, the findings should be better integrated with prior studies. E.g., there is some evidence for predictive remapping inducing integration of non-spatial features (some by the authors themselves; Harrison et al., 2013; Szinte et al., 2015). How do these findings relate to the observed results? Can the results simply be a special case of non-spatial feature integration between the currently attended and remapped location (fovea)? How are the results different from neurophysiological evidence for facilitation of the saccade target object's feature across the visual field (Burrow et al., 2014)? How might the results be reconciled with a prior fMRI study that failed to find decoding of stimulus content in remapped responses (Lescroart et al, 2016)? Might this reflect a difference between peripheral-to-peripheral vs peripheral-to-foveal remapping? A recent study by Chiu & Golomb (2025) provided supporting evidence for peripheral-to-fovea remapping (but not peripheral-to-peripheral remapping) of object-location binding (though in the post-saccadic time window), and suggested foveal prediction as the underlying mechanism.

      We thank the reviewer for raising these intriguing questions. We now address them in the revised discussion. We argue that the findings by Harrison et al., 2013 and Szinte et al., 2015 of presaccadic integration of features across two peripheral locations can be explained by presaccadic updating of spatial attention pointers rather than remapping of feature information (pg 8 ln 248-253). The lack of evidence for periphery-to-periphery remapping (Lescroart et al, 2016) and the recent study by Chiu & Golomb (2025) showing object-location binding from periphery to fovea nicely align with our characterization of foveal processing as unique in predicting feature information of upcoming stimuli (pg 8-9 ln 265-269). Finally, we argue that the global (i.e., space-invariant) selection task-irrelevant saccadic target features (Burrows et al., 2014) is well-established at the neural level, but does not suffice to explain the spatially specific nature of foveal prediction (pg 8 ln 220-224). We now include these studies in the revised discussion section.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, the authors used fMRI to determine whether peripherally viewed objects could be decoded from the foveal cortex, even when the objects themselves were never viewed foveally. Specifically, they investigated whether pre-saccadic target attributes (shape, semantic category) could be decoded from the foveal cortex. They found that object shape, but not semantic category, could be decoded, providing evidence that foveal feedback relies on low-mid-level information. The authors claim that this provides evidence for a mechanism underlying visual stability and object recognition across saccades.

      Strengths:

      I think this is another nice demonstration that peripheral information can be decoded from / is processed in the foveal cortex - the methods seem appropriate, and the experiments and analyses are carefully conducted, and the main results seem convincing. The paper itself was very clear and well-written.

      We thank the reviewer for this positive evaluation of our work. As discussed in our response to Reviewer 1, we now elaborate on the differences between previous work showing decoding of peripheral information from foveal cortex from the effect shown here. While there are important similarities between these findings, foveal prediction in our study occurs in a saccade condition and in the absence of a task that is specific to stimulus features. 

      Weaknesses:

      There are a couple of reasons why I think the main theoretical conclusions drawn from the study might not be supported, and why a more thorough investigation might be needed to draw these conclusions.

      (1) The authors used a blocked design, with each object being shown repeatedly in the same block. This meant that the stimulus was entirely predictable on each block, which weakens the authors' claims about this being a predictive mechanism that facilitates object recognition - if the stimulus is 100% predictable, there is no aspect of recognition or discrimination actually being tested. I think to strengthen these claims, an experiment would need to have unpredictable stimuli, and potentially combine behavioural reports with decoding to see whether this mechanism can be linked to facilitating object recognition across saccades.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point and would like to highlight that it was not our intention to claim a behavioral effect on object recognition. We believe that an ambiguous formulation in the original abstract may have been interpreted this way, and we thus removed this reference. We also speculated in our Discussion that a potential reason for foveal prediction could be a headstart in peripheral object recognition and in the revised manuscript more clearly highlight that this is a  potential future direction only.

      (2)  Given that foveal feedback has been found in previous studies that don't incorporate saccades, how is this a mechanism that might specifically contribute to stability across saccades, rather than just being a general mechanism that aids the processing/discrimination of peripherally-viewed stimuli? I don't think this paper addresses this point, which would seem to be crucial to differentiate the results from those of previous studies.

      We fully agree that this point had not been sufficiently addressed in the previous version of the manuscript. As described in our responses to similar comments from reviewers 1 and 2, we included an additional section in the Discussion (“Foveal feedback during saccade preparation”) to more clearly delineate the present study from previous findings of foveal feedback. Previous studies (Williams et al., 2008) only found foveal feedback during narrow discrimination tasks related to spatial features of the target stimulus, not during color-discrimination or fixation-only tasks, concluding that the observed effect must be related to the discrimination behavior. In contrast, we found foveal feedback (as evidenced by decoding of target features) during a saccade condition that was independent of the target features, suggesting a different role of foveal feedback than hypothesized by Williams et al. (2008).

      Recommendations for the authors:  

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (A) Minor comments:

      (1)  The task should be clarified earlier in the manuscript.

      We now characterise the task in the abstract and clarified its description in the third paragraph, right after introducing the main literature.

      (2) Is there actually only 0.5 seconds between saccades? This feels very short/rushed.

      The inter-trial-interval was 0.5 seconds, though effectively it varied because the target only appeared once participants fixated on the fixation dot. Note that this pacing is slower than the rate of saccades in natural vision (about 3 to 4 saccades per second).Participants did not report this paradigm as rushed.

      (3) Typo on pg2 ln64 (whooe).

      Fixed.

      (4)  Can the authors also show individual data points for Figures 3 and 4?

      We added individual data points for Figures 4 and S2

      (5) The MNI coordinates on Figure 4A seem to be incorrect.

      We took out those coordinates.

      (6) Pg4 ln126 and pg6 ln194, why cite Williams et al. (2008)?

      We included this reference here to acknowledge that Williams et al. raised the same issues. We added a “cf.” before this reference to clarify this.

      (7) Pg7 ln207 Fabius et al. (2020) showed slow post-saccadic feature remapping, rather than predictive remapping of spatial attention.

      We have corrected this mistake.

      (8) The OSF link is valid, but I couldn't find a pre-registration.

      The issue with the OSF link has been resolved. The pre-registration had been set up but not published. We now published it without changing the original pre-registration (see the screenshot attached).

      (9) I couldn't access the OpenNeuro repository.

      The issue with the OpenNeuro link has been resolved.

      (B) Additional references you may wish to include:

      (1) Burrows, B. E., Zirnsak, M., Akhlaghpour, H., Wang, M., & Moore, T.  (2014). Global selection of saccadic target features by neurons in area v4. Journal of Neuroscience.

      (2) Chambers, C. D., Allen, C. P., Maizey, L., & Williams, M. A. (2013). Is delayed foveal feedback critical for extra-foveal perception?. Cortex.

      (3) Chiu, T. Y., & Golomb, J. D. (2025). The influence of saccade target status on the reference frame of object-location binding. Journal of Experimental Psychology. General.

      (4) Harrison, W. J., Retell, J. D., Remington, R. W., & Mattingley, J. B. (2013). Visual crowding at a distance during predictive remapping. Current Biology.

      (5) Lescroart, M. D., Kanwisher, N., & Golomb, J. D. (2016). No evidence for automatic remapping of stimulus features or location found with fMRI. Frontiers in Systems Neuroscience.

      (6) Moran, C., Johnson, P. A., Hogendoorn, H., & Landau, A. N. (2025). The representation of stimulus features during stable fixation and active vision. Journal of Neuroscience.

      (7) Szinte, M., Jonikaitis, D., Rolfs, M., Cavanagh, P., & Deubel, H. (2016). Presaccadic motion integration between current and future retinotopic locations of attended objects. Journal of Neurophysiology.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out these references. We have included them in the revised version of the manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I just have a few minor points where I think some clarifications could be made.

      (1) Line 64 - "whooe" should be "whoose" I think.

      Fixed.

      (2) Around line 53 - you might consider citing this review on foveal feedback - https://doi.org/10.1167/jov.20.12.2

      We included the reference (pg 2 ln 55).

      (3) Line 129 - you mention a u-shaped relationship for decoding - I wasn't quite sure of the significance/relevance of this relationship - it would be helpful to expand on this / clarify what this means.

      We have expanded this section and added statistical tests of the u-shaped relationship in decoding using a weighted quadratic regression. We found significant positive curvature in all early visual areas between fovea and periphery (V1: t(27) = 3.98, p = 0.008, V2: t(27) = 3.03, p = 0.02, V3: t(27)= 2.776, p = 0.025). These findings support a u-shaped relationship. We now report these results in the revised manuscript (pg 5 ln 137-138).

      (4) Figure 1 - it would be helpful to indicate how long the target was viewed in the "stim on" panels - I assume it was for the saccade latency, but it would be good to include those values in the main text.

      We included that detail in the text (pg 3 ln 96-97).

    1. eLife Assessment

      The development of glmSMA represents a valuable advancement in spatial transcriptomics analysis, offering a mathematically robust regression-based approach that achieves higher-resolution mapping of single-cell RNA sequencing data to spatial locations than existing methods. The evidence is convincing, as the authors demonstrate the method's superiority by formulating it as a convex optimization problem that ensures stable solutions, coupled with successful validation across multiple biological systems. The rigorous mathematical framework and validation across diverse tissues enable precise spatial mapping of cellular heterogeneity at enhanced resolution.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The author proposes a novel method for mapping single-cell data to specific locations with higher resolution than several existing tools.

      Strengths:

      The spatial mapping tests were conducted on various tissues, including the mouse cortex, human PDAC, and intestinal villus.

      Comments on revised version:

      I have no additional comments regarding the current version of the manuscript.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors have provided a thorough and constructive response to the comments. They effectively addressed concerns regarding the dependence on marker gene selection by detailing the incorporation of multiple feature selection strategies, such as highly variable genes and spatially informative markers (e.g., via Moran's I), which enhance glmSMA's robustness even when using gene-limited reference atlases.

      Furthermore, the authors thoughtfully acknowledged the assumption underlying glmSMA-that transcriptionally similar cells are spatially proximal-and discussed both its limitations and empirical robustness in heterogeneous tissues such as human PDAC. Their use of real-world, heterogeneous datasets to validate this assumption demonstrates the method's practical utility and adaptability.

      Overall, the response appropriately contextualizes the limitations while reinforcing the generalizability and performance of glmSMA. The authors' clarifications and experimental justifications strengthen the manuscript and address the reviewer's concerns in a scientifically sound and transparent manner.

      Comments on revised version:

      Figure 1 does not yet clearly convey what the glmSMA algorithm actually does. I recommend revising or redesigning the figure so that the workflow, main inputs, and outputs of the algorithm are more intuitively presented. A clearer visual explanation would help readers quickly grasp the core concept and contribution of glmSMA.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

      Reviewer #1

      (1) Related to comment 3, related to the spatial communication section, either provide a clearer worked example or adjust the framing to avoid implying a more developed capability than is shown.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s feedback regarding the framing of the spatial communication section. We have removed this section from the revised version.

      (2) Related to comment 4 about resolution, consider including explicit numerical estimates of spatial resolution (e.g., median patch diameter in micrometers) for at least one dataset to help users understand practical mapping granularity.

      We appreciate the suggestion. We have added explicit numerical estimates of spatial resolution to clarify our mappings. Specifically, we now (i) define “patch” precisely and (ii) report the median patch diameter (in µm) for representative datasets:

      10x Visium (mouse cortex): spot diameter = 55 µm; center-to-center spacing = 100 µm.

      Slide-seqV2 (mouse brain): bead diameter ≈ 10 µm. When we optionally coarse-grain to 5×5 bead tiles for robustness, the effective patch diameter is ~50 µm

    1. eLife Assessment

      This valuable study investigates the relationship between pupil dilation and information gain during associative learning, using two different tasks. A key strength of this study is its exploration of pupil dilation beyond the immediate response period, extending analysis to later time windows after feedback, and it provides convincing evidence that pupillary response to information gain may be context-dependent during associative learning. The interpretation remains limited by task heterogeneity and unresolved contextual factors influencing pupil dynamics, but a range of interesting ideas are discussed.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study examines whether changes in pupil size index prediction-error-related updating during associative learning, formalised as information gain via Kullback-Leibler (KL) divergence. Across two independent tasks, pupil responses scaled with KL divergence shortly after feedback, with the timing and direction of the response varying by task. Overall, the work supports the view that pupil size reflects information-theoretic processes in a context-dependent manner.

      Strengths:

      This study provides a novel and convincing contribution by linking pupil dilation to information-theoretic measures, such as KL divergence, supporting Zénon's hypothesis that pupil responses reflect information gain during learning. The robust methodology, including two independent datasets with distinct task structures, enhances the reliability and generalisability of the findings. By carefully analysing early and late time windows, the authors capture the timing and direction of prediction-error-related responses, offering new insights into the temporal dynamics of model updating. The use of an ideal-learner framework to quantify prediction errors, surprise, and uncertainty provides a principled account of the computational processes underlying pupil responses. The work also highlights the critical role of task context in shaping the direction and magnitude of these effects, revealing the adaptability of predictive processing mechanisms. Importantly, the conclusions are supported by rigorous control analyses and preprocessing sanity checks, as well as convergent results from frequentist and Bayesian linear mixed-effects modelling approaches.

      Weaknesses:

      Some aspects of directionality remain context-dependent, and on current evidence cannot be attributed specifically to whether average uncertainty increases or decreases across trials. Differences between the two tasks (e.g., sensory modality and learning regime) limit direct comparisons of effect direction and make mechanistic attribution cautious. In addition, subjective factors such as confidence were not measured and could influence both prediction-error signals and pupil responses. Importantly, the authors explicitly acknowledge these limitations, and the manuscript clearly frames them as areas for future work rather than settled conclusions.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors investigate whether pupil dilation reflects information gain during associative learning, formalised as Kullback-Leibler divergence within an ideal observer framework. They examine pupil responses in a late time window after feedback and compare these to information-theoretic estimates (information gain, surprise, and entropy) derived from two different tasks with contrasting uncertainty dynamics.

      Strength:

      The exploration of task evoked pupil dynamics beyond the immediate response/feedback period and then associating them with model estimates was interesting and inspiring. This offered a new perspective on the relationship between pupil dilation and information processing.

      Weakness:

      However, the interpretability of the findings remains constrained by the fundamental differences between the two tasks (stimulus modality, feedback type, and learning structure), which confound the claimed context-dependent effects. The later time-window pupil effects, although intriguing, are small in magnitude and may reflect residual noise or task-specific arousal fluctuations rather than distinct information-processing signals. Thus, while the study offers valuable methodological insight and contributes to ongoing debates about the role of the pupil in cognitive inference, its conclusions about the functional significance of late pupil responses should be treated with caution.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Thank you for inviting me to review this manuscript entitled "Pupil dilation offers a time-window on prediction error" by Colizoli and colleagues. The study examines prediction errors, information gain (Kullback-Leibler [KL] divergence), and uncertainty (entropy) from an information-theory perspective using two experimental tasks and pupillometry. The authors aim to test a theoretical proposal by Zénon (2019) that the pupil response reflects information gain (KL divergence). The conclusion of this work is that (post-feedback) pupil dilation in response to information gain is context dependent.

      Strengths:

      Use of an established Bayesian model to compute KL divergence and entropy.

      Pupillometry data preprocessing and multiple robustness checks.

      Weaknesses:

      Operationalization of prediction errors based on frequency, accuracy, and their interaction:

      The authors rely on a more model-agnostic definition of the prediction error in terms of stimulus frequency ("unsigned prediction error"), accuracy, and their interaction ("signed prediction error"). While I see the point, I would argue that this approach provides a simple approximation of the prediction error, but that a model-based approach would be more appropriate.

      Model validation:

      My impression is that the ideal learner model should work well in this case. However, the authors don't directly compare model behavior to participant behavior ("posterior predictive checks") to validate the model. Therefore, it is currently unclear if the model-derived terms like KL divergence and entropy provide reasonable estimates for the participant data.

      Lack of a clear conclusion:

      The authors conclude that this study shows for the first time that (post-feedback) pupil dilation in response to information gain is context dependent. However, the study does not offer a unifying explanation for such context dependence. The discussion is quite detailed with respect to task-specific effects, but fails to provide an overarching perspective on the context-dependent nature of pupil signatures of information gain. This seems to be partly due to the strong differences between the experimental tasks.

    5. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study examines whether changes in pupil size index prediction-error-related updating during associative learning, formalised as information gain via Kullback-Leibler (KL) divergence. Across two independent tasks, pupil responses scaled with KL divergence shortly after feedback, with the timing and direction of the response varying by task. Overall, the work supports the view that pupil size reflects information-theoretic processes in a context-dependent manner.

      Strengths:

      This study provides a novel and convincing contribution by linking pupil dilation to informationtheoretic measures, such as KL divergence, supporting Zénon's hypothesis that pupil responses reflect information gain during learning. The robust methodology, including two independent datasets with distinct task structures, enhances the reliability and generalisability of the findings. By carefully analysing early and late time windows, the authors capture the timing and direction of prediction-error-related responses, oPering new insights into the temporal dynamics of model updating. The use of an ideal-learner framework to quantify prediction errors, surprise, and uncertainty provides a principled account of the computational processes underlying pupil responses. The work also highlights the critical role of task context in shaping the direction and magnitude of these ePects, revealing the adaptability of predictive processing mechanisms. Importantly, the conclusions are supported by rigorous control analyses and preprocessing sanity checks, as well as convergent results from frequentist and Bayesian linear mixed-ePects modelling approaches.

      Weaknesses:

      Some aspects of directionality remain context-dependent, and on current evidence cannot be attributed specifically to whether average uncertainty increases or decreases across trials. DiPerences between the two tasks (e.g., sensory modality and learning regime) limit direct comparisons of ePect direction and make mechanistic attribution cautious. In addition, subjective factors such as confidence were not measured and could influence both predictionerror signals and pupil responses. Importantly, the authors explicitly acknowledge these limitations, and the manuscript clearly frames them as areas for future work rather than settled conclusions.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors investigate whether pupil dilation reflects information gain during associative learning, formalised as Kullback-Leibler divergence within an ideal observer framework. They examine pupil responses in a late time window after feedback and compare these to informationtheoretic estimates (information gain, surprise, and entropy) derived from two diPerent tasks with contrasting uncertainty dynamics.

      Strength:

      The exploration of task evoked pupil dynamics beyond the immediate response/feedback period and then associating them with model estimates was interesting and inspiring. This oPered a new perspective on the relationship between pupil dilation and information processing.

      Weakness:

      However, the interpretability of the findings remains constrained by the fundamental diPerences between the two tasks (stimulus modality, feedback type, and learning structure), which confound the claimed context-dependent ePects. The later time-window pupil ePects, although intriguing, are small in magnitude and may reflect residual noise or task-specific arousal fluctuations rather than distinct information-processing signals. Thus, while the study oPers valuable methodological insight and contributes to ongoing debates about the role of the pupil in cognitive inference, its conclusions about the functional significance of late pupil responses should be treated with caution.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Thank you for inviting me to review this manuscript entitled "Pupil dilation oPers a time-window on prediction error" by Colizoli and colleagues. The study examines prediction errors, information gain (Kullback-Leibler [KL] divergence), and uncertainty (entropy) from an information-theory perspective using two experimental tasks and pupillometry. The authors aim to test a theoretical proposal by Zénon (2019) that the pupil response reflects information gain (KL divergence). The conclusion of this work is that (post-feedback) pupil dilation in response to information gain is context dependent.

      Strengths:

      Use of an established Bayesian model to compute KL divergence and entropy.

      Pupillometry data preprocessing and multiple robustness checks.

      Weaknesses:

      Operationalization of prediction errors based on frequency, accuracy, and their interaction:

      The authors rely on a more model-agnostic definition of the prediction error in terms of stimulus frequency ("unsigned prediction error"), accuracy, and their interaction ("signed prediction error"). While I see the point, I would argue that this approach provides a simple approximation of the prediction error, but that a model-based approach would be more appropriate.

      Model validation:

      My impression is that the ideal learner model should work well in this case. However, the authors don't directly compare model behavior to participant behavior ("posterior predictive checks") to validate the model. Therefore, it is currently unclear if the model-derived terms like KL divergence and entropy provide reasonable estimates for the participant data.

      Lack of a clear conclusion:

      The authors conclude that this study shows for the first time that (post-feedback) pupil dilation in response to information gain is context dependent. However, the study does not oPer a unifying explanation for such context dependence. The discussion is quite detailed with respect to taskspecific ePects, but fails to provide an overarching perspective on the context-dependent nature of pupil signatures of information gain. This seems to be partly due to the strong diPerences between the experimental tasks.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I highly appreciate the care and detail in the authors' response and thank them for the ePort invested in revising the manuscript. They addressed the core concerns to a high standard, and the manuscript has substantially improved in methodological rigour (through additional controls/sanity checks and complementary mixed-ePects analyses) and in clarity of interpretation (by explicitly acknowledging context-dependence and tempering stronger claims). The present version reads clearly and is much strengthened overall. I only have a few minor points below:

      Minor suggestions:

      Abstract:

      In the abstract KL is introduced as abbreviation, but at first occurence it should be written out as "Kullback-Leibler (KL)" for readers not familiar with it.

      We thank the reviewer for catching this error. It has been correct in the version of record.

      Methods:

      I appreciate the additional bayesian LME analysis. I only had a few things that I thought were missing from knowing the parameters: 1) what was the target acceptance rate (default of .95?), 2) which family was used to model the response distribution: (default) "gaussian" or robust "student-t"? Depending on the data a student-t would be preferred, but since the author's checked the fit & the results corroborate the correlation analysis, using the default would also be fine! Just add the information for completeness.

      Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We have now noted that default parameters were used in all cases unless otherwise mentioned. 

      Thank you once again for your time and consideration.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Thanks to the authors' ePort on revision. I am happy with this new version of manuscript.

      Thank you once again for your time and consideration.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Regarding comments #3 and #6 (first round) on model validation and posterior predictive checks, the authors replied that since their model is not a "generative" one, they can't perform posterior predictive checks. Crucially, in eq. 2, the authors present the p{tilde}^j_k variable denoting the learned probability of event k on trial j. I don't see why this can't be exploited for simulations. In my opinion, one could (and should) generate predictions based on this variable. The simplest implementation would translate the probability into a categorical choice (w/o fitting any free parameter). Based on this, they could assess whether the model and data are comparable.

      We thank the reviewer for this clarification. The reviewer suggests using the probability distributions at each trial to predict which event should be chosen on each trial. More specifically, the event(s) with the highest probability on trial j could be used to generate a prediction for the choice of the participant on trial j. We agree that this would indeed be an interesting analysis. However, the response options of each task are limited to two-alternatives. In the cue-target task, four events are modeled (representing all possible cue-target conditions) while the participants’ response options are only “left” and “right”. Similarly, in the letter-color task, 36 events are modeled while the participants’ response options are “match” and “no-match”. In other words, we do not know which event (either four or 36, for the two tasks) the participant would have indicated on each trial. As an approximation to this fine-grained analysis, we investigated the relationship between the information-theoretic variables separately for error and correct trials. Our rationale was that we would have more insight into how the model fits depended on the participants’ actual behavior as compared with the ideal learner model.

      (2) I recommend providing a plot of the linear mixed model analysis of the pupil data. Currently, results are only presented in the text and tables, but a figure would be much more useful.

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion to add a plot of the linear mixed model results. We appreciate the value of visualizing model estimates; however, we feel that the current presentation in the text and tables clearly conveys the relevant findings. For this reason, and to avoid further lengthening the manuscript, we prefer to retain the current format.

      (3) I would consider only presenting the linear mixed ePects for the pupil data in the main results, and the correlation results in the supplement. It is currently quite long.

      We thank the reviewer for this recommendation. We agree that the results section is detailed; however, we consider the correlation analyses to be integral to the interpretation of the pupil data and therefore prefer to keep them in the main text rather than move them to the supplement.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      eLife Assessment

      This important study seeks to examine the relationship between pupil size and information gain, showing opposite effects dependent upon whether the average uncertainty increases or decreases across trials. Given the broad implications for learning and perception, the findings will be of broad interest to researchers in cognitive neuroscience, decision-making, and computational modelling. Nevertheless, the evidence in support of the particular conclusion is at present incomplete - the conclusions would be strengthened if the authors could both clarify the differences between model-updating and prediction error in their account and clarify the patterns in the data.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigates whether pupil dilation reflects prediction error signals during associative learning, defined formally by Kullback-Leibler (KL) divergence, an information-theoretic measure of information gain. Two independent tasks with different entropy dynamics (decreasing and increasing uncertainty) were analyzed: the cue-target 2AFC task and the lettercolor 2AFC task. Results revealed that pupil responses scaled with KL divergence shortly after feedback onset, but the direction of this relationship depended on whether uncertainty (entropy) increased or decreased across trials. Furthermore, signed prediction errors (interaction between frequency and accuracy) emerged at different time windows across tasks, suggesting taskspecific temporal components of model updating. Overall, the findings highlight that pupil dilation reflects information-theoretic processes in a complex, context-dependent manner.

      Strengths:

      This study provides a novel and convincing contribution by linking pupil dilation to informationtheoretic measures, such as KL divergence, supporting Zénon's hypothesis that pupil responses reflect information gained during learning. The robust methodology, including two independent datasets with distinct entropy dynamics, enhances the reliability and generalisability of the findings. By carefully analysing early and late time windows, the authors capture the temporal dynamics of prediction error signals, offering new insights into the timing of model updates. The use of an ideal learner model to quantify prediction errors, surprise, and entropy provides a principled framework for understanding the computational processes underlying pupil responses. Furthermore, the study highlights the critical role of task context - specifically increasing versus decreasing entropy - in shaping the directionality and magnitude of these effects, revealing the adaptability of predictive processing mechanisms.

      Weaknesses:

      While this study offers important insights, several limitations remain. The two tasks differ significantly in design (e.g., sensory modality and learning type), complicating direct comparisons and limiting the interpretation of differences in pupil dynamics. Importantly, the apparent context-dependent reversal between pupil constriction and dilation in response to feedback raises concerns about how these opposing effects might confound the observed correlations with KL divergence. 

      We agree with the reviewer’s concerns and acknowledge that the speculation concerning the directional effect of entropy across trials can not be fully substantiated by the current study. As the reviewer points out, the directional relationship between pupil dilation and information gain must be due to other factors, for instance, the sensory modality, learning type, or the reversal between pupil constriction and dilation across the two tasks. Also, we would like to note that ongoing experiments in our lab already contradict our original speculation. In line with the reviewer’s point, we noted these differences in the section on “Limitations and future research” in the Discussion. To better align the manuscript with the above mentioned points, we have made several changes in the Abstract, Introduction and Discussion summarized below: 

      We have removed the following text from the Abstract and Introduction: “…, specifically related to increasing or decreasing average uncertainty (entropy) across trials.”

      We have edited the following text in the Introduction (changes in italics) (p. 5):

      “We analyzed two independent datasets featuring distinct associative learning paradigms, one characterized by increasing entropy and the other by decreasing entropy as the tasks progressed. By examining these different tasks, we aimed to identify commonalities (if any) in the results across varying contexts. Additionally, the contrasting directions of entropy in the two tasks enabled us to disentangle the correlation between stimulus-pair frequency and information gain in the postfeedback pupil response.

      We have removed the following text from the Discussion:

      “…and information gain in fact seems to be driven by increased uncertainty.”

      “We speculate that this difference in the direction of scaling between information gain and the pupil response may depend on whether entropy was increasing or decreasing across trials.” 

      “…which could explain the opposite direction of the relationship between pupil dilation and information gain”

      “… and seems to relate to the direction of the entropy as learning progresses (i.e., either increasing or decreasing average uncertainty).” 

      We have edited the following texts in the Discussion (changes in italics):

      “For the first time, we show that the direction of the relationship between postfeedback pupil dilation and information gain (defined as KL divergence) was context dependent.” (p. 29):

      Finally, we have added the following correction to the Discussion (p. 30):

      “Although it is tempting to speculate that the direction of the relationship between pupil dilation and information gain may be due to either increasing or decreasing entropy as the task progressed, we must refrain from this conclusion. We note that the two tasks differ substantially in terms of design with other confounding variables and therefore cannot be directly compared to one another. We expand on these limitations in the section below (see Limitations and future research).”

      Finally, subjective factors such as participants' confidence and internal belief states were not measured, despite their potential influence on prediction errors and pupil responses.

      Thank you for the thoughtful comment. We agree with the reviewer that subjective factors, such as participants' confidence, can be important in understanding prediction errors and pupil responses. As per the reviewer’s point, we have included the following limitation in the Discussion (p. 33): 

      “Finally, while we acknowledge the potential relevance of subjective factors, such as the participants’ overt confidence reports, in understanding prediction errors and pupil responses, the current study focused on the more objective, model-driven measure of information-theoretic variables. This approach aligns with our use of the ideal learner model, which estimates information-theoretic variables while being agnostic about the observer's subjective experience itself. Future research is needed to explore the relationship between information-gain signals in pupil dilation and the observer’s reported experience of or awareness about confidence in their decisions.” 

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors proposed that variability in post-feedback pupillary responses during the associative learning tasks can be explained by information gain, which is measured as KL divergence. They analysed pupil responses in a later time window (2.5s-3s after feedback onset) and correlated them with information-theory-based estimates from an ideal learner model (i.e., information gain-KL divergence, surprise-subjective probability, and entropy-average uncertainty) in two different associative decision-making tasks.

      Strength:

      The exploration of task-evoked pupil dynamics beyond the immediate response/feedback period and then associating them with model estimates was interesting and inspiring. This offered a new perspective on the relationship between pupil dilation and information processing.

      Weakness:

      However, disentangling these later effects from noise needs caution. Noise in pupillometry can arise from variations in stimuli and task engagement, as well as artefacts from earlier pupil dynamics. The increasing variance in the time series of pupillary responses (e.g., as shown in Figure 2D) highlights this concern.

      It's also unclear what this complicated association between information gain and pupil dynamics actually means. The complexity of the two different tasks reported made the interpretation more difficult in the present manuscript.

      We share the reviewer’s concerns. To make this point come across more clearly, we have added the following text to the Introduction (p. 5):

      “The current study was motivated by Zenon’s hypothesis concerning the relationship between pupil dilation and information gain, particularly in light of the varying sources of signal and noise introduced by task context and pupil dynamics. By demonstrating how task context can influence which signals are reflected in pupil dilation, and highlighting the importance of considering their temporal dynamics, we aim to promote a more nuanced and model-driven approach to cognitive research using pupillometry.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study examines prediction errors, information gain (Kullback-Leibler [KL] divergence), and uncertainty (entropy) from an information-theory perspective using two experimental tasks and pupillometry. The authors aim to test a theoretical proposal by Zénon (2019) that the pupil response reflects information gain (KL divergence). In particular, the study defines the prediction error in terms of KL divergence and speculates that changes in pupil size associated with KL divergence depend on entropy. Moreover, the authors examine the temporal characteristics of pupil correlates of prediction errors, which differed considerably across previous studies that employed different experimental paradigms. In my opinion, the study does not achieve these aims due to several methodological and theoretical issues.

      Strengths:

      (1)  Use of an established Bayesian model to compute KL divergence and entropy.

      (2)  Pupillometry data preprocessing, including deconvolution.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Definition of the prediction error in terms of KL divergence:

      I'm concerned about the authors' theoretical assumption that the prediction error is defined in terms of KL divergence. The authors primarily refer to a review article by Zénon (2019): "Eye pupil signals information gain". It is my understanding that Zénon argues that KL divergence quantifies the update of a belief, not the prediction error: "In short, updates of the brain's internal model, quantified formally as the Kullback-Leibler (KL) divergence between prior and posterior beliefs, would be the common denominator to all these instances of pupillary dilation to cognition." (Zénon, 2019).

      From my perspective, the update differs from the prediction error. Prediction error refers to the difference between outcome and expectation, while update refers to the difference between the prior and the posterior. The prediction error can drive the update, but the update is typically smaller, for example, because the prediction error is weighted by the learning rate to compute the update. My interpretation of Zénon (2019) is that they explicitly argue that KL divergence defines the update in terms of the described difference between prior and posterior, not the prediction error.

      The authors also cite a few other papers, including Friston (2010), where I also could not find a definition of the prediction error in terms of KL divergence. For example [KL divergence:] "A non-commutative measure of the non-negative difference between two probability distributions." Similarly, Friston (2010) states: Bayesian Surprise - "A measure of salience based on the Kullback-Leibler divergence between the recognition density (which encodes posterior beliefs) and the prior density. It measures the information that can be recognized in the data." Finally, also in O'Reilly (2013), KL divergence is used to define the update of the internal model, not the prediction error.

      The authors seem to mix up this common definition of the model update in terms of KL divergence and their definition of prediction error along the same lines. For example, on page 4: "KL divergence is a measure of the difference between two probability distributions. In the context of predictive processing, KL divergence can be used to quantify the mismatch between the probability distributions corresponding to the brain's expectations about incoming sensory input and the actual sensory input received, in other words, the prediction error (Friston, 2010; Spratling, 2017)."

      Similarly (page 23): "In the current study, we investigated whether the pupil's response to decision outcome (i.e., feedback) in the context of associative learning reflects a prediction error as defined by KL divergence."

      This is problematic because the results might actually have limited implications for the authors' main perspective (i.e., that the pupil encodes prediction errors) and could be better interpreted in terms of model updating. In my opinion, there are two potential ways to deal with this issue:

      (a) Cite work that unambiguously supports the perspective that it is reasonable to define the prediction error in terms of KL divergence and that this has a link to pupillometry. In this case, it would be necessary to clearly explain the definition of the prediction error in terms of KL divergence and dissociate it from the definition in terms of model updating.

      (b) If there is no prior work supporting the authors' current perspective on the prediction error, it might be necessary to revise the entire paper substantially and focus on the definition in terms of model updating.

      We thank the reviewer for pointy out these inconsistencies in the manuscript and appreciate their suggestions for improvement. We take approach (a) recommended by the reviewer, and provide our reasoning as to why prediction error signals in pupil dilation are expected to correlate with information gain (defined as the KL divergence between posterior and prior belief distributions). This can be found in a new section in the introduction, copied here for convenience (p. 3-4):

      “We reasoned that the link between prediction error signals and information gain in pupil dilation is through precision-weighting. Precision refers to the amount of uncertainty (inverse variance) of both the prior belief and sensory input in the prediction error signals [6,64–67]. More precise prediction errors receive more weighting, and therefore, have greater influence on model updating processes. The precisionweighting of prediction error signals may provide a mechanism for distinguishing between known and unknown sources of uncertainty, related to the inherent stochastic nature of a signal versus insufficient information of the part of the observer, respectively [65,67,68]. In Bayesian frameworks, information gain is fundamentally linked to prediction error, modulated by precision [65,66,69–75]. In non-hierarchical Bayesian models, information gain can be derived as a function of prediction errors and the precision of the prior and likelihood distributions, a relationship that can be approximately linear [70]. In hierarchical Bayesian inference, the update in beliefs (posterior mean changes) at each level is proportional to the precision-weighted prediction error; this update encodes the information gained from new observations [65,66,69,71,72]. Neuromodulatory arousal systems are well-situated to act as precision-weighting mechanisms in line with predictive processing frameworks [76,77]. Empirical evidence suggests that neuromodulatory systems broadcast precisionweighted prediction errors to cortical regions [11,59,66,78]. Therefore, the hypothesis that feedback-locked pupil dilation reflects a prediction error signal is similarly in line with Zenon’s main claim that pupil dilation generally reflects information gain, through precision-weighting of the prediction error. We expected a prediction error signal in pupil dilation to be proportional to the information gain.”

      We have referenced previous work that has linked prediction error and information gain directly (p. 4): “The KL divergence between posterior and prior belief distributions has been previously considered to be a proxy of (precision-weighted) prediction errors [68,72].”

      We have taken the following steps to remedy this error of equating “prediction error” directly with the information gain.

      First, we have replaced “KL divergence” with “information gain” whenever possible throughout the manuscript for greater clarity. 

      Second, we have edited the section in the introduction defining information gain substantially (p. 4): 

      “Information gain can be operationalized within information theory as the KullbackLeibler (KL) divergence between the posterior and prior belief distributions of a Bayesian observer, representing a formalized quantity that is used to update internal models [29,79,80]. Itti and Baldi (2005)81 termed the KL divergence between posterior and prior belief distributions as “Bayesian surprise” and showed a link to the allocation of attention. The KL divergence between posterior and prior belief distributions has been previously considered to be a proxy of (precision-weighted) prediction errors[68,72]. According to Zénon’s hypothesis, if pupil dilation reflects information gain during the observation of an outcome event, such as feedback on decision accuracy, then pupil size will be expected to increase in proportion to how much novel sensory evidence is used to update current beliefs [29,63]. ” 

      Finally, we have made several minor textual edits to the Abstract and main text wherever possible to further clarify the proposed relationship between prediction errors and information gain.

      (2) Operationalization of prediction errors based on frequency, accuracy, and their interaction:

      The authors also rely on a more model-agnostic definition of the prediction error in terms of stimulus frequency ("unsigned prediction error"), accuracy, and their interaction ("signed prediction error"). While I see the point here, I would argue that this approach offers a simple approximation to the prediction error, but it is possible that factors like difficulty and effort can influence the pupil signal at the same time, which the current approach does not take into account. I recommend computing prediction errors (defined in terms of the difference between outcome and expectation) based on a simple reinforcement-learning model and analyzing the data using a pupillometry regression model in which nuisance regressors are controlled, and results are corrected for multiple comparisons.

      We agree with the reviewer’s suggestion that alternatively modeling the data in a reinforcement learning paradigm would be fruitful. We adopted the ideal learner model as we were primarily focused on Information Theory, stemming from our aim to test Zenon’s hypothesis that information gain drives pupil dilation. However, we agree with the reviewer that it is worthwhile to pursue different modeling approaches in future work. We have now included a complementary linear mixed model analysis in which we controlled for the effects of the information-theoretic variables on one another, while also including the nuisance regressors of pre-feedback baseline pupil dilation and reaction times (explained in more detail below in our response to your point #4). Results including correction for multiple comparisons was reported for all pupil time course data as detailed in Methods section 2.5. 

      (3) The link between model-based (KL divergence) and model-agnostic (frequency- and accuracy-based) prediction errors:

      I was expecting a validation analysis showing that KL divergence and model-agnostic prediction errors are correlated (in the behavioral data). This would be useful to validate the theoretical assumptions empirically.

      The model limitations and the operalization of prediction error in terms of post-feedback processing do not seem to allow for a comparison of information gain and model-agnostic prediction errors in the behavioral data for the following reasons. First, the simple ideal learner model used here is not a generative model, and therefore, cannot replicate or simulate the participants responses (see also our response to your point #6 “model validation” below). Second, the behavioral dependent variables obtained are accuracy and reaction times, which both occur before feedback presentation. While accuracy and reaction times can serve as a marker of the participant’s (statistical) confidence/uncertainty following the decision interval, these behavioral measures cannot provide access to post-feedback information processing. The pupil dilation is of interest to us because the peripheral arousal system is able to provide a marker of post-feedback processing. Through the analysis presented in Figure 3, we indeed aimed to make the comparison of the model-based information gain to the model-agnostic prediction errors via the proxy variable of post-feedback pupil dilation instead of behavioral variables. To bridge the gap between the “behaviorally agnostic” model parameters and the actual performance of the participants, we examined the relationship between the model-based information gain and the post-feedback pupil dilation separately for error and correct trials as shown in Figure 3D-F & Figure 3J-L. We hope this addresses the reviewers concern and apologize in case we did not understand the reviewers suggestion here.

      (4) Model-based analyses of pupil data:

      I'm concerned about the authors' model-based analyses of the pupil data. The current approach is to simply compute a correlation for each model term separately (i.e., KL divergence, surprise, entropy). While the authors do show low correlations between these terms, single correlational analyses do not allow them to control for additional variables like outcome valence, prediction error (defined in terms of the difference between outcome and expectation), and additional nuisance variables like reaction time, as well as x and y coordinates of gaze.

      Moreover, including entropy and KL divergence in the same regression model could, at least within each task, provide some insights into whether the pupil response to KL divergence depends on entropy. This could be achieved by including an interaction term between KL divergence and entropy in the model.

      In line with the reviewer’s suggestions, we have included a complementary linear mixed model analysis in which we controlled for the effects of the information-theoretic variables on one another, while also including the nuisance regressors of pre-feedback baseline pupil dilation and reaction times. We compared the performance of two models on the post-feedback pupil dilation in each time window of interest: Modle 1 had no interaction between information gain and entropy and Model 2 included an interaction term as suggested. We did not include the x- and y- coordinates of gaze in the mixed linear model analysis, as there are multiple values of these coordinates per trial. Furthermore, regressing out the x and y- coordinates of gaze can potentially remove signal of interest in the pupil dilation data in addition to the gaze-related confounds and we did not measure absolute pupil size (Mathôt, Melmi & Castet, 2015; Hayes & Petrov, 2015). We present more sanity checks on the pre-processing pipeline as recommended by Reviewer 1.  

      This new analysis resulted in several additions to the Methods (see Section 2.5) and Results. In sum, we found that including an interaction term for information gain and entropy did not lead to better model fits, but sometimes lead to significantly worse fits. Overall, the results of the linear mixed model corroborated the “simple” correlation analysis across the pupil time course while accounting for the relationship to the pre-feedback baseline pupil and preceeding reaction time differences. There was only one difference to note between the correlation and linear mixed modeling analyses: for the error trials in the cue-target 2AFC task, including entropy in the model accounted for the variance previously explained by surprise.

      (5) Major differences between experimental tasks:

      More generally, I'm not convinced that the authors' conclusion that the pupil response to KL divergence depends on entropy is sufficiently supported by the current design. The two tasks differ on different levels (stimuli, contingencies, when learning takes place), not just in terms of entropy. In my opinion, it would be necessary to rely on a common task with two conditions that differ primarily in terms of entropy while controlling for other potentially confounding factors. I'm afraid that seemingly minor task details can dramatically change pupil responses. The positive/negative difference in the correlation with KL divergence that the authors interpret to be driven by entropy may depend on another potentially confounding factor currently not controlled.

      We agree with the reviewer’s concerns and acknowledge that the speculation concerning the directional effect of entropy across trials can not be fully substantiated by the currect study. We note that Review #1 had a similar concern. Our response to Reviewer #1 addresses this concern of Reviewer #3 as well. To better align the manuscript with the above mentioned points, we have made several changes that are detailed in our response to Reviewer #1’s public review (above). 

      (6) Model validation:

      My impression is that the ideal learner model should work well in this case. However, the authors don't directly compare model behavior to participant behavior ("posterior predictive checks") to validate the model. Therefore, it is currently unclear if the model-derived terms like KL divergence and entropy provide reasonable estimates for the participant data.

      Based on our understanding, posterior predictive checks are used to assess the goodness of fit between generated (or simulated) data and observed data. Given that the “simple” ideal learner model employed in the current study is not a generative model, a posterior predictive check would not apply here (Gelman, Carlin, Stern, Dunson, Vehtari, & Rubin (2013). The ideal learner model is unable to simulate or replicate the participants’ responses and behaviors such as accuracy and reaction times; it simply computes the probability of seeing each stimulus type at each trial based on the prior distribution and the exact trial order of the stimuli presented to each participant. The model’s probabilities are computed directly from a Dirichlet distribution of values that represent the number of occurences of each stimulus-pair type for each task. The information-theoretic variables are then directly computed from these probabilities using standard formulas. The exact formulas used in the ideal learner model can be found in section 2.4.

      We have now included a complementary linear mixed model analysis which also provides insight into the amount of explained variance of these information-theoretic predictors on the post-feedback pupil response, while also including the pre-feedback baseline pupil and reaction time differences (see section 3.3, Tables 3 & 4). The R<sup>2</sup> values ranged from 0.16 – 0.50 across all conditions tested.

      (7) Discussion:

      The authors interpret the directional effect of the pupil response w.r.t. KL divergence in terms of differences in entropy. However, I did not find a normative/computational explanation supporting this interpretation. Why should the pupil (or the central arousal system) respond differently to KL divergence depending on differences in entropy?

      The current suggestion (page 24) that might go in this direction is that pupil responses are driven by uncertainty (entropy) rather than learning (quoting O'Reilly et al. (2013)). However, this might be inconsistent with the authors' overarching perspective based on Zénon (2019) stating that pupil responses reflect updating, which seems to imply learning, in my opinion. To go beyond the suggestion that the relationship between KL divergence and pupil size "needs more context" than previously assumed, I would recommend a deeper discussion of the computational underpinnings of the result.

      Since we have removed the original speculative conclusion from the manuscript, we will refrain from discussing the computational underpinnings of a potential mechanism. To note as mentioned above, we have preliminary data from our own lab that contradicts our original hypothesis about the relationship between entropy and information gain on the post-feedback pupil response. 

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Apart from the points raised in the public review above, I'd like to use the opportunity here to provide a more detailed review of potential issues, questions, and queries I have:

      (1) Constriction vs. Dilation Effects:

      The study observes a context-dependent relationship between KL divergence and pupil responses, where pupil dilation and constriction appear to exhibit opposing effects. However, this phenomenon raises a critical concern: Could the initial pupil constriction to visual stimuli (e.g., in the cue-target task) confound correlations with KL divergence? This potential confound warrants further clarification or control analyses to ensure that the observed effects genuinely reflect prediction error signals and are not merely a result of low-level stimulus-driven responses.

      We agree with the reviewers concern and have added the following information to the limitations section in the Discussion (changes in italics below; p. 32-33).

      “First, the two associative learning paradigms differed in many ways and were not directly comparable. For instance, the shape of the mean pupil response function differed across the two tasks in accordance with a visual or auditory feedback stimulus (compare Supplementary Figure 3A with Supplementary Figure 3D), and it is unclear whether these overall response differences contributed to any differences obtained between task conditions within each task. We are unable to rule out whether so-called “low level” effects such as the initial constriction to visual stimuli in the cue-target 2AFC task as compared with the dilation in response auditory stimuli in letter-color 2AFC task could confound correlations with information gain. Future work should strive to disentangle how the specific aspects of the associative learning paradigms relate to prediction errors in pupil dilation by systematically manipulating design elements within each task.”

      Here, I also was curious about Supplementary Figure 1, showing 'no difference' between the two tones (indicating 'error' or 'correct'). Was this the case for FDR-corrected or uncorrected cluster statistics? Especially since the main results also showed sig. differences only for uncorrected cluster statistics (Figure 2), but were n.s. for FDR corrected. I.e. can we be sure to rule out a confound of the tones here after all?

      As per the reviewer’s suggestion, we verified that there were also no significant clusters after feedback onset before applying the correction for multiple comparisons. We have added this information to Supplemenatary section 1.2 as follows: 

      “Results showed that the auditory tone dilated pupils on average (Supplementary Figure 1C). Crucially, however, the two tones did not differ from one another in either of the time windows of interest (Supplementary Figure 1D; no significant time points after feedback onset were obtained either before or after correcting for multiple comparisons using cluster-based permutation methods; see Section 2.5.” 

      Supplementary Figure 1 is showing effects cluster-corrected for multiple comparisons using cluster-based permutation tests from the MNE software package in Python (see Methods section 2.5). We have clarified that the cluster-correction was based on permutation testing in the figure legend. 

      (2) Participant-Specific Priors:

      The ideal learner models do not account for individualised priors, assuming homogeneous learning behaviour across participants. Could incorporating participant-specific priors better reflect variability in how individuals update their beliefs during associative learning?

      We have clarified in the Methods (see section 2.4) that the ideal learner models did account for participant-specific stimuli including participant-specific priors in the letter-color 2AFC task. We have added the following texts: 

      “We also note that while the ideal learner model for the cue-target 2AFC task used a uniform (flat) prior distribution for all participants, the model parameters were based on the participant-specific cue-target counterbalancing conditions and randomized trial order.” (p. 13)

      “The prior distributions used for the letter-color 2AFC task were estimated from the randomized letter-color pairs and randomized trial order presentation in the preceding odd-ball task; this resulted in participant-specific prior distributions for the ideal learner model of the letter-color 2AFC task. The model parameters were likewise estimated from the (participant-specific) randomized trial order presented in the letter-color 2AFC task.” (p. 13)

      (3) Trial-by-Trial Variability:

      The analysis does not account for random effects or inter-trial variability using mixed-effects models. Including such models could provide a more robust statistical framework and ensure the observed relationships are not influenced by unaccounted participant- or trial-specific factors.

      We have included a complementary linear mixed model analysis in which “subject” was modeled as a random effect on the post-feedback pupil response in each time window of interest and for each task. Across all trials, the results of the linear mixed model corroborated the “simple” correlation analysis across the pupil time course while accounting for the relationship to the prefeedback baseline pupil and preceeding reaction time differences (see section 3.3, Tables 3 & 4).

      (4) Preprocessing/Analysis choices:

      Before anything else, I'd like to highlight the authors' effort in providing public code (and data) in a very readable and detailed format!

      We appreciate the compliment - thank you for taking the time to look at the data and code provided.

      I found the idea of regressing the effect of Blinks/Saccades on the pupil trace intriguing. However, I miss a complete picture here to understand how well this actually worked, especially since it seems to be performed on already interpolated data. My main points here are:

      (4.1) Why is the deconvolution performed on already interpolated data and not on 'raw' data where there are actually peaks of information to fit?

      To our understanding, at least one critical reason for interpolating the data before proceeding with the deconvolution analysis is that the raw data contain many missing values (i.e., NaNs) due to the presence of blinks. Interpolating over the missing data first ensures that there are valid numerical elements in the linear algebra equations. We refer the reviewer to the methods detailed in Knapen et al. (2016) for more details on this pre-processing method. 

      (4.2) What is the model fit (e.g. R-squared)? If this was a poor fit for the regressors in the first place, can we trust the residuals (i.e. clean pupil trace)? Is it possible to plot the same Pupil trace of Figure 1D with a) the 'raw' pupil time-series, b) after interpolation only (both of course also mean-centered for comparison), on top of the residuals after deconvolution (already presented), so we can be sure that this is not driving the effects in a 'bad' way? I'd just like to make sure that this approach did not lead to artefacts in the residuals rather than removing them.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. In the Supplementary Materials, we have included a new figure (Supplementary Figure 2, copied below for convience), which illustrates the same conditions as in Figure 1D and Figure 2D, with 1) the raw data, and 2) the interpolated data before the nuisance regression. Both the raw data and interpolated data have been band-pass filtered as was done in the original pre-processing pipeline and converted to percent signal change. These figures can be compared directly to Figure 1D and Figure 2D, for the two tasks, respectively. 

      Of note is that the raw data seem to be dominated by responses to blinks (and/or saccades). Crucially, the pattern of results remains overall unchaged between the interpolated-only and fully pre-processed version of the data for both tasks. 

      In the Supplementary Materials (see Supplementary section 2), we have added the descriptives of the model fits from the deconvolution method. Model fits (R<sup>2</sup>) for the nuisance regression were generally low: cue-target 2AFC task, M = 0.03, SD = 0.02, range = [0.00, 0.07]; letter-color visual 2AFC, M = 0.08, SD = 0.04, range = [0.02, 0.16].

      Furthermore, a Pearson correlation analysis between the interpolated and fully pre-processed data within the time windows of interest for both task indicated high correspondence: 

      Cue-target 2AFC task

      Early time window: M = 0.99, SD = 0.01, range = [0.955, 1.000]

      Late time window: M = 0.99, SD = 0.01, range = [0.971, 1.000]

      Letter-color visual 2AFC

      Early time window: M = 0.95, SD = 0.04, range = [0.803, 0.998]

      Late time window: M = 0.97, SD = 0.02, range = [0.908, 0.999]

      In hindsight, including the deconvolution (nuisance regression) method may not have changed the pattern of results much. However, the decision to include this deconvolution method was not data-driven; instead, it was based on the literature establishing the importance of removing variance (up to 5 s) of these blinks and saccades from cognitive effects of interest in pupil dilation (Knapen et al., 2016). 

      (4.3) Since this should also lead to predicted time series for the nuisance-regressors, can we see a similar effect (of what is reported for the pupil dilation) based on the blink/saccade traces of a) their predicted time series based on the deconvolution, which could indicate a problem with the interpretation of the pupil dilation effects, and b) the 'raw' blink/saccade events from the eye-tracker? I understand that this is a very exhaustive analysis so I would actually just be interested here in an averaged time-course / blink&saccade frequency of the same time-window in Figure 1D to complement the PD analysis as a sanity check.

      Also included in the Supplementary Figure 2 is the data averaged as in Figure 1D and Figure 2D for the raw data and nuisance-predictor time courses (please refer to the bottom row of the sub-plots). No pattern was observed in either the raw data or the nuisance predictors as was shown in the residual time courses. 

      (4.4) How many samples were removed from the time series due to blinks/saccades in the first place? 150ms for both events in both directions is quite a long bit of time so I wonder how much 'original' information of the pupil was actually left in the time windows of interest that were used for subsequent interpretations.

      We thank the reviewer for bringing this issue to our attention. The size of the interpolation window was based on previous literature, indicating a range of 100-200 ms as acceptable (Urai et al., 2017; Knapen et al., 2016; Winn et al., 2018). The ratio of interpolated-to-original data (across the entire trial) varied greatly between participants and between trials: cue-target 2AFC task, M = 0.262, SD = 0.242, range = [0,1]; letter-color 2AFC task, M = 0.194, SD = 0.199, range = [0,1]. 

      We have now included a conservative analysis in which only trials with more than half (threshold = 60%) of original data are included in the analyses. Crucially, we still observe the same pattern of effects as when all data are considered across both tasks (compare the second to last row in the Supplementary Figure 2 to Figure 1D and Figure 2D).

      (4.5) Was the baseline correction performed on the percentage change unit?

      Yes, the baseline correction was performed on the pupil timeseries after converting to percentsignal change. We have added that information to the Methods (section 2.3).

      (4.6) What metric was used to define events in the derivative as 'peaks'? I assume some sort of threshold? How was this chosen?

      The threshold was chosen in a data-driven manner and was kept consistent across both tasks. The following details have been added to the Methods:

      “The size of the interpolation window preceding nuisance events was based on previous literature [13,39,99]. After interpolation based on data-markers and/or missing values, remaining blinks and saccades were estimated by testing the first derivative of the pupil dilation time series against a threshold rate of change. The threshold for identifying peaks in the temporal derivative is data-driven, partially based on past work[10,14,33]. The output of each participant’s pre-processing pipeline was checked visually. Once an appropriate threshold was established at the group level, it remained the same for all participants (minimum peak height of 10 units).” (p. 8 & 11).

      (5) Multicollinearity Between Variables:

      Lastly, the authors state on page 13: "Furthermore, it is expected that these explanatory variables will be correlated with one another. For this reason, we did not adopt a multiple regression approach to test the relationship between the information-theoretic variables and pupil response in a single model". However, the very purpose of multiple regression is to account for and disentangle the contributions of correlated predictors, no? I might have missed something here.

      We apologize for the ambiguity of our explanation in the Methods section. We originally sought to assess the overall relationship between the post-feedback response and information gain (primarily), but also surprise and entropy. Our reasoning was that these variables are often investigated in isolation across different experiments (i.e., only investigating Shannon surprise), and we would like to know what the pattern of results would look like when comparing a single information-theoretic variable to the pupil response (one-by-one). We assumed that including additional explanatory variables (that we expected to show some degree of collinearity with each other) in a regression model would affect variance attributed to them as compared with the one-on-one relationships observed with the pupil response (Morrissey & Ruxton 2018). We also acknowledge the value of a multiple regression approach on our data. Based on the suggestions by the reviewers we have included a complementary linear mixed model analysis in which we controlled for the effects of the information-theoretic variables on one another, while also including the nuisance regressors of pre-feedback baseline pupil dilation and reaction times.  

      This new analysis resulted in several additions to the Methods (see Section 2.5) and Results (see Tables 3 and 4). Overall, the results of the linear mixed model corroborated the “simple” correlation analysis across the pupil time course while accounting for the relationship to the prefeedback baseline pupil and preceeding reaction time differences. There was only one difference to note between the correlation and linear mixed modeling analyses: for the error trials in the cue-target 2AFC task, including entropy in the model accounted for the variance previously explained by surprise. 

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Given the inherent temporal dependencies in pupil dynamics, characterising later pupil responses as independent of earlier ones in a three-way repeated measures ANOVA may not be appropriate. A more suitable approach might involve incorporating the earlier pupil response as a covariate in the model.

      We thank the reviewer for bringing this issue to our attention. From our understanding, a repeated-measures ANOVA with factor “time window” would be appropriate in the current context for the following reasons. First, autocorrelation (closely tied to sphericity) is generally not considered a problem when only two timepoints are compared from time series data (Field, 2013; Tabachnick & Fidell, 2019). Second, the repeated-measures component of the ANOVA takes the correlated variance between time points into account in the statistical inference. Finally, as a complementary analysis, we present the results testing the interaction between the frequency and accuracy conditions across the full time courses (see Figures 1D and 2D); in these pupil time courses, any difference between the early and late time windows can be judged by the reader visually and qualitatively. 

      (2) Please clarify the correlations between KL divergence, surprise, entropy, and pupil response time series. Specifically, state whether these correlations account for the interrelationships between these information-theoretic measures. Given their strong correlations, partialing out these effects is crucial for accurate interpretation.

      As mentioned above, based on the suggestions by the reviewers we have included a complementary linear mixed model analysis in which we controlled for the effects of the information-theoretic variables on one another, while also including the nuisance regressors of pre-feedback baseline pupil dilation and reaction times.  

      This new analysis resulted in several additions to the Methods (see Section 2.5) and Results (see Tables 3 and 4). Overall, the results of the linear mixed model corroborated the “simple” correlation analysis across the pupil time course while accounting for the relationship to the prefeedback baseline pupil and preceeding reaction time differences. There was only one difference to note between the correlation and linear mixed modeling analyses: for the error trials in the cue-target 2AFC task, including entropy in the model accounted for the variance previously explained by surprise. 

      (3) The effects observed in the late time windows appear weak (e.g., Figure 2E vs. 2F, and the generally low correlation coefficients in Figure 3). Please elaborate on the reliability and potential implications of these findings.

      We have now included a complementary linear mixed model analysis which also provides insight into the amount of explained variance of these information-theoretic predictors on the post-feedback pupil response, while also including the pre-feedback baseline pupil and reaction time differences (see section 3.3, Tables 3 & 4). The R<sup>2</sup> values ranged from 0.16 – 0.50 across all conditions tested. Including the pre-feedback baseline pupil dilation as a predictor in the linear mixed model analysis consistently led to more explained variance in the post-feedback pupil response, as expected.  

      (4) In Figure 3 (C-J), please clarify how the trial-by-trial correlations were computed (averaged across trials or subjects). Also, specify how the standard error of the mean (SEM) was calculated (using the number of participants or trials).

      The trial-by-trial correlations between the pupil signal and model parameters were computed for each participant, then the coefficients were averaged across participants for statistical inference. We have added several clarifications in the text (see section 2.5 and legends of Figure 3 and Supplementary Figure 4).

      We have added “the standard error of the mean across participants” to all figure labels.

      (5) For all time axes (e.g., Figure 2D), please label the ticks at 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, and 3 seconds. Clearly indicate the duration of the feedback on the time axes. This is particularly important for interpreting the pupil dilation responses evoked by auditory feedback.

      We have labeled the x-ticks every 0.5 seconds in all figures and indicated the duration of the auditory feedback in the letter-color decision task and as well as the stimuli presented in the control tasks in the Supplementary Materials. 

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Introduction page 3: "In information theory, information gain quantifies the reduction of uncertainty about a random variable given the knowledge of another variable. In other words, information gain measures how much knowing about one variable improves the prediction or understanding of another variable."

      (2) In my opinion, the description of information gain can be clarified. Currently, it is not very concrete and quite abstract. I would recommend explaining it in the context of belief updating.

      We have removed these unclear statements in the Introduction. We now clearly state the following:

      “Information gain can be operationalized within information theory as the KullbackLeibler (KL) divergence between the posterior and prior belief distributions of a Bayesian observer, representing a formalized quantity that is used to update internal models [29,79,80].” (p. 4)

      (3) Page 4: The inconsistencies across studies are described in extreme detail. I recommend shortening this part and summarizing the inconsistencies instead of listing all of the findings separately.

      As per the reviewer’s recommendation, we have shortened this part of the introduction to summarize the inconsistencies in a more concise manner as follows: 

      “Previous studies have shown different temporal response dynamics of prediction error signals in pupil dilation following feedback on decision outcome: While some studies suggest that the prediction error signals arise around the peak (~1 s) of the canonical impulse response function of the pupil [11,30,41,61,62,90], other studies have shown evidence that prediction error signals (also) arise considerably later with respect to feedback on choice outcome [10,25,32,41,62]. A relatively slower prediction error signal following feedback presentation may suggest deeper cognitive processing, increased cognitive load from sustained attention or ongoing uncertainty, or that the brain is integrating multiple sources of information before updating its internal model. Taken together, the literature on prediction error signals in pupil dilation following feedback on decision outcome does not converge to produce a consistent temporal signature.” (p. 5)

      We would like to note some additional minor corrections to the preprint:

      We have clarified the direction of the effect in Supplementary Figure 3 with the following: 

      “Participants who showed a larger mean difference between the 80% as compared with the 20% frequency conditions in accuracy also showed smaller differences (a larger mean difference in magnitude in the negative direction) in pupil responses between frequency conditions (see Supplementary Figure 4).”

      The y-axis labels in Supplementary Figure 3 were incorrect and have been corrected as the following: “Pupil responses (80-20%)”.

      We corrected typos, formatting and grammatical mistakes when discovered during the revision process. Some minor changes were made to improve clarity. Of course, we include a version of the manuscript with Tracked Changes as instructed for consideration.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study identifies 53BP1 as an interaction partner of GMCL1 (a likely CUL3 substrate receptor). The study proposes a novel mechanism by which cancer cells evade the mitotic surveillance pathway through GMCL1-mediated degradation of 53BP1, leading to reduced p53 activation and paclitaxel resistance. These data are the most useful aspect of the study, but the data supporting the authors' conclusions as to the clinical relevance of the study are inadequate. The authors have not taken relevant data about the clinical mechanism of taxanes into account.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      This study investigates the role of GMCL1 in regulating the mitotic surveillance pathway (MSP), a protective mechanism that activates p53 following prolonged mitosis. The authors identify a physical interaction between 53BP1 and GMCL1, but not with GMCL2. They propose that the ubiquitin ligase complex CRL3-GMCL1 targets 53BP1 for degradation during mitosis, thereby preventing the formation of the "mitotic stopwatch" complex (53BP1-USP28-p53) and subsequent p53 activation. The authors show that high GMCL1 expression correlates with resistance to paclitaxel in cancer cell lines that express wild-type p53. Importantly, loss of GMCL1 restores paclitaxel sensitivity in these cells, but not in p53-deficient lines. They propose that GMCL1 overexpression enables cancer cells to bypass MSP-mediated p53 activation, promoting survival despite mitotic stress. Targeting GMCL1 may thus represent a therapeutic strategy to re-sensitize resistant tumors to taxane-based chemotherapy.

      Strengths

      This manuscript presents potentially interesting observations. The major strength of this article is the identification of GMCL1 as 53BP1 interaction partner. The authors identified relevant domains and show that GMCL1 controls 53BP1 stability. The authors further show a potentially interesting link between GMCL1 status and sensitivity to Taxol.

      Weaknesses

      A major limitation of the original manuscript was that the functional relevance of GMCL1 in regulating 53BP1 within an appropriate model system was not clearly demonstrated. In the revised version, the authors attempt to address this point. However, the new experiment is insufficiently controlled, making it difficult to interpret the results. State-of-the-art approaches would typically rely on single-cell tracking to monitor cell fate following release from a moderately prolonged mitosis.

      In contrast, the authors use a population-based assay, but the reported rescue from arrest is minimal. If the assay were functioning robustly, one would expect that nearly all cells depleted of USP28 or 53BP1 should have entered S-phase at a defined time after release. Thus, the very small rescue effect of siTP53BP1 suggests that the current assay is not suitable. It is also likely that release from a 16-hour mitotic arrest induces defects independent of the 53BP1-dependent p53 response.

      Furthermore, the cell-cycle duration of RPE1 cells is less than 20 hours. It is therefore unclear why cells are released for 30 hours before analysis. At this time point, many cells are likely to have progressed into the next cell cycle, making it impossible to draw conclusions regarding the immediate consequences of prolonged mitosis. As a result, the experiment cannot be evaluated due to inadequate controls.

      To strengthen this part of the study, I recommend that the authors first establish an assay that reliably rescues the mitotic-arrest-induced G1 block upon depletion of p53, 53BP1, or USP28. Once this baseline is validated, GMCL1 knockout can then be introduced to quantify its contribution to the response.

      A broader conceptual issue is that the evidence presented does not form a continuous line of reasoning. For example, it is not demonstrated that GMCL1 interacts with or regulates 53BP1 in RPE1 cells-the system in which the limited functional experiments are conducted.

      There are also a number of inconsistencies and issues with data presentation that need to be addressed:

      (1) Figure 2C: p21 levels appear identical between GMCL1 KO and WT rescue. If GMCL1 regulates p53 through 53BP1, p21 should be upregulated in the KO.

      (2) Figure 2A vs. 2C: GMCL1 KO affects chromatin-bound 53BP1 in Figure 2A, yet in Figure 2C it affects 53BP1 levels specifically in G1-phase cells. This discrepancy requires clarification.

      (3) Figure 2C quantification: The three biological repeats show an unusual pattern, with one repeat's data points lying exactly between the other two. It is unclear what the line represents; please clarify.

      (4) Figure nomenclature: Some abbreviations (e.g., FLAG-KI in Fig. 1F, WKE in Fig. 1C-D, ΔMFF in Fig. 1E) are not defined in the figure legends. All abbreviations must be explained.

      (5) Figure 2D: Please indicate how many times the experiment was reproduced. Quantification with statistical testing would strengthen the result. Pull-downs of 53BP1 with calculation of the ubiquitinated/total ratio could also support the conclusion.

      (6) Figures 3A and 3C: The G1 bars share the same color as the error bars, making the graphs difficult to interpret. Please adjust the color scheme.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Kito et al follow up on previous work that identified Drosophila GCL as a mitotic substrate recognition subunit of a CUL3-RING ubiquitin ligase (CRL3) complex. Here they identified mutants of the human ortholog of GCL, GMCL1, that disrupt the interaction with CUL3 (GMCL1E142K) and that lack the substrate interaction domain (GMCL1 BBO). Immunoprecipitation followed by mass spectrometry identified 9 proteins that interacted with wild type FLAG-GMCL1 but not GMCL1 EK or GMCL1 BBO. These proteins included 53BP1, which plays a well characterized role in double strand break repair but also functions in a USP28-p53-53BP1 "mitotic stopwatch" complex that arrests the cell cycle after a substantially prolonged mitosis. Consistent with the IP-MS results, FLAG-GMCL1 immunoprecipitated 53BP1. Depletion of GMCL1 during mitotic arrest increased protein levels of 53BP1, and this could be rescued by wild type GMCL1 but not the E142K mutant or a R433A mutant that failed to immunoprecipitate 53BP1. Using a publicly available dataset, the authors identified a relatively small subset of cell lines with high levels of GMCL1 mRNA that were resistant to the taxanes paclitaxel, cabazitaxel, and/or docetaxel. This type of analysis is confounded by the fact that paclitaxel and other microtubule poisons accumulate to substantially different levels in various cell lines (PMID: 8105478, PMID: 10198049) so careful follow up experiments are required to validate results. The correlation between increased GMCL1 mRNA and taxane resistance was not observed in lung cancer cell lines. The authors propose this was because nearly half of lung cancers harbor p53 mutations, and lung cancer cell lines with wild type but not mutant p53 showed the correlation between increased GMCL1 mRNA and taxane resistance. However, the other cancer cell types in which they report increased GMCL1 expression correlates with taxane sensitivity also have high rates of p53 mutation. Furthermore, p53 status does not predict taxane response in patients (PMID: 10951339, PMID: 8826941, PMID: 10955790). The authors then depleted GMCL1 and reported that it increased apoptosis in two cell lines with wild type p53 (MCF7 and U2OS) due to activation of the mitotic stopwatch. This is surprising because the mitotic stopwatch paper cited (PMID: 38547292) reported that U2OS cells have an inactive stopwatch. Though it can be partially restored by treatment with an inhibitor of WIP1, the stopwatch was reported to be substantially impaired in U2OS cells, in contrast to what is reported here. Additionally, activation of the stopwatch results in cell cycle arrest rather than apoptosis in most cell types, including MCF7. Beyond this, it has recently been shown that the level of taxanes and other microtubule poisons achieved in patient tumors is too low to induce mitotic arrest (PMID: 24670687, PMID: 34516829, PMID: 37883329). Physiologically relevant concentrations are achieved with approximately 5-10 nM paclitaxel, rather than the 100 nM used here. The findings here demonstrating that GMCL1 mediates chromatin localization of 53BP1 during mitotic arrest are solid and of interest to cell biologists, but it is unlikely that these findings are relevant to paclitaxel response in patients.

      Strengths:

      This study identified 53BP1 as a target of CRL3GMCL1-mediated degradation during mitotic arrest. AlphaFold3 predictions of the binding interface followed by mutational analysis identified mutants of each protein (GMCL1 R433A and 53BP1 IEDI1422-1425AAAA) that disrupted their interaction. Knock-in of a FLAG tag into the C-terminus of GMCL1 in HCT116 cells followed by FLAG immunoprecipitation confirmed that endogenous GMCL1 interacts with endogenous CUL3 and 53BP1 during mitotic arrest.

      Weaknesses:

      The clinical relevance of the study is overinterpreted. The authors have not taken relevant data about the clinical mechanism of taxanes into account. Supraphysiologic doses of microtubule poisons cause mitotic arrest and can activate the mitotic stopwatch. However, in physiologic concentrations of clinically useful microtubule poisons, cells proceed though mitosis and divide their chromosomes on mitotic spindles that are at least transiently multipolar. Though these low concentrations may result in a brief mitotic delay, it is substantially shorter than the arrest caused by high concentrations of microtubule poisons, and the one mimicked here by 16 hours of 0.4 mg/mL nocodazole or 48 hours of 100 nM paclitaxel. Resistance to mitotic arrest occurs through different mechanisms than resistance to multipolar spindles, raising concerns about the relevance of prolonged mitosis to paclitaxel response in cancer. Nocodazole is a microtubule poison that is not used clinically and does not induce multipolar spindles, so a similar apoptotic response to both drugs increases concern about a lack of physiological relevance. Moreover, clinical response to paclitaxel does not correlate with p53 status (PMID: 10951339, PMID: 8826941, PMID: 10955790). No evidence is presented that GMCL1 affects cellular response to clinically relevant doses of paclitaxel.

      Comments on revisions:

      (1) The claim that GMCL1 modulates paclitaxel sensitivity in cancer should be toned down. Inaccurate statements based on an outdated understanding of the anti-cancer mechanism of paclitaxel should be removed (eg lines 42-44: "In cancers that are resistant to paclitaxel, a microtubule-targeting agent, cells bypass mitotic surveillance activation, allowing unchecked proliferation...", lines 73-75: "Proper mitotic arrest is critical for the efficacy of microtubule-targeting therapies...", lines 78-79: "This resistance is frequently associated with loss of MSP activity, for example due to defective p53 signaling". As cited in the public review, p53 status does not correlate with paclitaxel response in cancer.)

      (2) Perform timelapse experiments +/- GMCL1 siRNA in the absence of drug and in the presence of low, physiologically relevant concentrations of paclitaxel (5-10 nM), as well as supraphysiologic concentrations (100 nM) and correlate mitotic duration with cell cycle arrest. Test if co-depletion of 53BP1 with GMCL1 rescues cell cycle arrest after a substantially prolonged mitosis. Perform these experiments in a cell line with an intact mitotic stopwatch.

    4. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1(Public review):

      In this manuscript, Pagano and colleagues test the idea that the protein GMCL1 functions as a substrate receptor for a Cullin RING 3 E3 ubiquitin ligase (CUL3) complex. Using a pulldown approach, they identify GMCL1 binding proteins, including the DNA damage scaffolding protein 53BP1. They then focus on the idea that GMCL1 recruits 53BP1 for CUL3-dependent ubiquitination, triggering subsequent proteasomal degradation of ubiquitinated 53BP1.

      In addition to its DNA damage signalling function, in mitosis, 53BP1 is reported to form a stopwatch complex with the deubiquitinating enzyme USP28 and the transcription factor p53 (PMID: 38547292). These 53BP1-stopwatch complexes generated in mitosis are inherited by G1 daughter cells and help promote p53-dependent cell cycle arrest independent from DNA damage (PMID: 38547292). Several studies show that knockout of 53BP1 overcomes G1 cell cycle arrest after mitotic delays caused by anti-mitotic drugs or centrosome ablation (PMID: 27432897, 27432896). In this model, it is crucial that 53BP1 remains stable in mitosis and more stopwatch complex is formed after delayed mitosis.

      Major concerns:

      Pagano and coworkers suggest that 53BP1 levels can sometimes be suppressed in mitosis if the cells overexpress GMCL1. They carry out a bioinformatic analysis of available public data for p53 wild-type cancer cell lines resistant to the anti-mitotic drug paclitaxel and related compounds. Stratifying GMCL1 into low and high expression groups reveals a weak (p = 0.05 or ns) correlation with sensitivity to taxanes. It is unclear on what basis the authors claim paclitaxel-resistant and p53 wild-type cancer cell lines bypass the mitotic surveillance/timer pathway. They have not tested this. Figure 3 is a correlation assembled from public databases but has no experimental tests. Figure 4 looks at proliferation but not cell cycle progression or the length of mitosis. The main conclusions relating to cell cycle progression and specifically the link to mitotic delays are therefore not supported by experimental data. There is no imaging of the cell cycle or cell fate after mitotic delays, or analysis of where the cells arrest in the cell cycle. Most of the cell lines used have been reported to lack a functional mitotic surveillance pathway in the recent work by Meitinger. To support these conclusions, the stability of endogenous 53BP1 under different conditions in cells known to have a functional mitotic surveillance pathway needs to be examined. A key suggestion in the work is that the level of GMCL1 expression correlates with resistance to taxanes. For the mitotic surveillance pathway, the type of drug (nocodazole, taxol, etc) used to induce a delay isn't thought to be relevant, only the length of the delay. Do GMCL1-overexpressing cells show resistance to anti-mitotics in general?

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. We propose that GMCL1 promotes CUL3-dependent ubiquitination of 53BP1 during prolonged mitotic arrest, thereby facilitating its proteasome-dependent degradation. To evaluate the potential clinical relevance of this mechanism, we stratified cancer cell lines based on GMCL1 mRNA expression using publicly available datasets from DepMap (PMID: 39468210). We observed correlations between GMCL1 expression levels and taxane sensitivity that appear to reflect specific cancer type-drug combinations. To experimentally evaluate this correlation and obtain mechanistic insights, we performed knockdown experiments in hTERT-RPE1 cells, which are known to possess an intact mitotic surveillance pathway. Silencing of GMCL1 alone inhibited cell proliferation and induced apoptosis, while co-depletion of either TP53BP1 or USP28 significantly rescued these effects. These results suggest that GMCL1 modulates the stability of 53BP1 and therefore the availability of the 53BP1-USP28-p53 ternary complex in cells with a functional mitotic surveillance pathway (MSP) (new Figure 5I,J) directly linking GMCL1 to the regulation of the MSP complex. Moreover, to further support our mechanism, we assessed the effect of GMCL1 levels on cell cycle progression. Briefly, following nocodazole synchronization and release, we treated cells with EdU and performed FACS analyses at different times. Knockdown of GMCL1 alone led to a delayed cell cycle progression, but co-depletion of either TP53BP1 or USP28 restored this phenotype (new Figure 3A and new Supplementary Figure 3A-C). These results are consistent with our proliferation data and suggest that the observed effects of GMCL1 are specific to mitotic exit. Finally, overexpression of GMCL1 accelerates cell cycle progression (as assessed by FACS analyses) upon release from prolonged mitotic arrest (new Figure 3B and new Supplementary Figure 3D-E). 

      Importantly, if GMCL1 specifically degrades 53BP1 during prolonged mitotic arrests, the authors should show what happens during normal cell divisions without any delays or drug treatments. How much 53BP1 is destroyed in mitosis under those conditions? Does 53BP1 destruction depend on the length of mitosis, drug treatment, or does 53BP1 get degraded every mitosis regardless of length? Testing the contribution of key mitotic E3 ligase activities on mitotic 53BP1 stability, such as the anaphase-promoting complex/cyclosome (APC/C) is important in this regard. One previous study reported an analysis of putative APC/C KEN-box degron motifs in 53BP1 and concluded these play a role in 53BP1 stability in anaphase (PMID: 28228263).

      Physiological mitosis under unperturbed conditions is typically brief (approximately 30 minutes), making protein quantification during this window challenging. Despite this, we tried by synchronizing cells using RO-3306 and releasing them into drug-free medium to assess GMCL1 dynamics during normal mitosis. Under these conditions, GMCL1 expression was similar to that in asynchronous cells and higher than the levels upon extended mitosis. However, when we attempted to measure the half-life of proteins using cycloheximide, most cells died, likely due to the toxic effect of cycloheximide in cells subjected to co-treatment with RO-3306 or nocodazole. This is the same reasons why in Figure 2C, we assessed 53BP1 in daughter cells rather than mitotic cells. 

      There is no direct test of the proposed mechanism, and it is therefore unclear if 53BP1 is ubiquitinated by a GMCL1-CUL3 ligase in cells, and how efficient this process would be at different cell cycle stages. A key issue is the lack of experimental data explaining why the proposed mechanism would be restricted to mitosis. Indirect effects, such as loss of 53BP1 from the chromatin fraction during M phase upon GMCL1 overexpression, do not necessarily mean that 53BP1 is degraded. PLK1-dependent chromatin-cytoplasmic shuttling of 53BP1 during mitotic delays has been described previously (PMID: 38547292, 37888778). These papers are cited in the text, but the main conclusions of those papers on 53BP1 incorporation into a stopwatch complex during mitotic delays have been ignored. Are the authors sure that 53BP1 is destroyed in mitosis and not simply re-localised between chromatin and non-chromatin fractions? At the very least, these reported findings should be discussed in the text.

      To examine whether GMCL1 promotes 53BP1 ubiquitination in cells, we expressed in cells Trypsin-Resistant Tandem Ubiquitin-Binding Entity (TR-TUBE), a protein that binds polyubiquitin chains. Abundant, endogenous ubiquitinated 53BP1 co-precipitated with TR-TUBE constructs only when wild-type GMCL1 but not the E142K GMCL1 mutant, was expressed (new Figure 2D).  The PLK1-dependent incorporation of 53BP1 into the stopwatch complex and the chromatin-cytoplasmic shuttling of 53BP1 during mitotic delays is now discussed in the text. That said, compared to parental cells, 53BP1 levels in the chromatin fraction are high in two different GMCL1 KO clones in M phase arrested cells (Figure 2A-B).  This increase does not correspond to a decrease in the 53BP1 soluble fraction (Figure 2A and new Supplementary Figure 2D), suggesting decreased 53BP1 is not due to re-localization. The increased half-life of 53BP1 in daughter cells (Figure 2C), also supports this hypothesis. 

      The authors use a variety of cancer cell line models throughout their study, most of which have been reported to lack a functional mitotic surveillance pathway. U2OS and HCT116 cells do not respond normally to mitotic delays, despite being annotated as p53 WT. Other studies have used p53 wild-type hTERT RPE-1 cells to study the mitotic surveillance pathway. If the model is correct, then over-expressing GMCL1 in hTERT-RPE1 cells should suppress cell cycle arrest after mitotic delays, and GMCL1 KO should make the cells more sensitive to delays. These experiments are needed to provide an adequate test of the proposed model.

      We greatly appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion regarding overexpression of GMCL1 in hTERT-RPE1 cells. To address this, we generated stable RPE1 cells expressing V5-tagged GMCL1 and conducted EdU incorporation assays following nocodazole synchronization and release. Overexpression of GMCL1 enhanced cell cycle progression compared to control cells (new Figure 3B and new Supplementary Figure 3D-E) after mitotic arrest, consistent with our model. We, therefore, propose that GMCL1 controls 53BP1 stability to suppress p53-dependent cell cycle arrest.

      We also want to point out that while some papers suggest that HCT116 and U2OS cells do not have an intact mitotic surveillance pathway, others have shown that the MSP is indeed functioning in HCT116 cells and can be triggered with variable efficiency in U2OS cells (PMID: 38547292). This is likely due to high heterogeneity and extensive clonal diversity of cancer cell lines grown in different labs. Please see examples in PMIDs: 3620713, 30089904, and 30778230. In particular, PMID: 30089904 shows that this heterogeneity correlates with considerably different drug responses. 

      To conclude, while the authors propose a potentially interesting model on how GMCL1 overexpression could regulate 53BP1 stability to limit p53-dependent cell cycle arrest, it is unclear what triggers this pathway or when it is relevant. 53BP1 is known to function in DNA damage signalling, and GMCL1 might be relevant in that context. The manuscript contains the initial description of GMCL1-53BP1 interaction but lacks a proper analysis of the function of this interaction and is therefore a preliminary report.

      We hope that the new experiments, along with the clarifications provided in this response letter and revised manuscript, offer the reviewer increased confidence in the robustness and validity of our proposed model.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This study investigates the role of GMCL1 in regulating the mitotic surveillance pathway (MSP), a protective mechanism that activates p53 following prolonged mitosis. The authors identify a physical interaction between 53BP1 and GMCL1, but not with GMCL2. They propose that the ubiquitin ligase complex CRL3-GMCL1 targets 53BP1 for degradation during mitosis, thereby preventing the formation of the "mitotic stopwatch" complex (53BP1-USP28-p53) and subsequent p53 activation. The authors show that high GMCL1 expression correlates with resistance to paclitaxel in cancer cell lines that express wild-type p53. Importantly, loss of GMCL1 restores paclitaxel sensitivity in these cells, but not in p53-deficient lines. They propose that GMCL1 overexpression enables cancer cells to bypass MSP-mediated p53 activation, promoting survival despite mitotic stress. Targeting GMCL1 may thus represent a therapeutic strategy to re-sensitize resistant tumors to taxane-based chemotherapy.

      Strengths:

      This manuscript presents potentially interesting observations. The major strength of this article is the identification of GMCL1 as a 53BP1 interaction partner. The authors identified relevant domains and showed that GMCL1 controls 53BP1 stability. The authors further show a potentially interesting link between GMCL1 status and sensitivity to Taxol.

      Weaknesses:

      However, the manuscript is significantly weakened by unsubstantiated mechanistic claims, overreliance on a non-functional model system (U2OS), and overinterpretation of correlative data. To support the conclusions of the manuscript, the authors must show that the GMCL1-dependent sensitivity to Taxol depends on the mitotic surveillance pathway.

      To demonstrate that GMCL1-dependent taxane sensitivity is mediated through the mitotic surveillance pathway (MSP), we now performed experiments using hTERT-RPE1 (RPE1) cells, a widely used, non-transformed cell line known to possess a functional MSP.  We compared RPE1 cells with knockdown of GMCL1 alone to those with simultaneous knockdown of GMCL1 and either TP53BP1 or USP28. Upon paclitaxel (Taxol) treatment, cells with GMCL1 knockdown exhibited suppressed proliferation and increased apoptosis. Notably, these phenotypes were rescued by co-depletion of TP53BP1 or USP28 (new Figure 5I,J). These results support the notion that GMCL1 contributes to MSP activity, at least in part, through its regulation of 53BP1.       

      To further strengthen our mechanistic experiments, we assessed the effect of GMCL1 levels on cell cycle progression. Following nocodazole synchronization and release, we treated cells with EdU and performed FACS analyses at different times. Knockdown of GMCL1 alone led to a delay in cell cycle progression, but co-depletion of either TP53BP1 or USP28 alleviate this phenotype (new Figure 3A and new Supplementary Figure 3A, B). These results are consistent with our proliferation data.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Kito et al follow up on previous work that identified Drosophila GCL as a mitotic substrate recognition subunit of a CUL3-RING ubiquitin ligase (CRL3) complex.

      Here they characterize mutants of the human ortholog of GCL, GMCL1, that disrupt the interaction with CUL3 (GMCL1E142K) and that lack the substrate interaction domain (GMCL1 BBO). Immunoprecipitation followed by mass spectrometry identified 9 proteins that interacted with wild-type FLAG-GMCL1 and GMCL1 EK but not GMCL1 BBO. These proteins included 53BP1, which plays a well-characterized role in double-strand break repair but also functions in a USP28-p53-53BP1 "mitotic stopwatch" complex that arrests the cell cycle after a substantially prolonged mitosis. Consistent with the IP-MS results, FLAG-GMCL1 immunoprecipitated 53BP1. Depletion of GMCL1 during mitotic arrest increased protein levels of 53BP1, and this could be rescued by wild-type GMCL1 but not the E142K mutant or a R433A mutant that failed to immunoprecipitate 53BP1.

      Using a publicly available dataset, the authors identified a relatively small subset of cell lines with high levels of GMCL1 mRNA that were resistant to the taxanes paclitaxel, cabazitaxel, and docetaxel. This type of analysis is confounded by the fact that paclitaxel and other microtubule poisons accumulate to substantially different levels in various cell lines (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.90.20.9552 , DOI: 10.1091/mbc.10.4.947 ), so careful follow-up experiments are required to validate results. The correlation between increased GMCL1 mRNA and taxane resistance was not observed in lung cancer cell lines. The authors propose this was because nearly half of lung cancers harbor p53 mutations, and lung cancer cell lines with wild-type but not mutant p53 showed the correlation between increased GMCL1 mRNA and taxane resistance. However, the other cancer cell types in which they report increased GMCL1 expression correlates with taxane sensitivity also have high rates of p53 mutation. Furthermore, p53 status does not predict taxane response in patients (DOI: 10.1002/1097-0142(20000815)89:4<769::aid-cncr8>3.0.co;2-6 , DOI: 10.1002/(SICI)1097-0142(19960915)78:6<1203::AID-CNCR6>3.0.CO;2-A , PMID: 10955790).

      The authors then depleted GMCL1 and reported that it increased apoptosis in two cell lines with wild-type p53 (MCF7 and U2OS) due to activation of the mitotic stopwatch. This is surprising because the mitotic stopwatch paper they cite (DOI: 10.1126/science.add9528 ) reported that U2OS cells have an inactive stopwatch and that activation of the stopwatch results in cell cycle arrest rather than apoptosis in most cell types, including MCF7. Beyond this, it has recently been shown that the level of taxanes and other microtubule poisons achieved in patient tumors is too low to induce mitotic arrest (DOI: 10.1126/scitranslmed.3007965 , DOI: 10.1126/scitranslmed.abd4811 , DOI: 10.1371/journal.pbio.3002339 ), raising concerns about the relevance of prolonged mitosis to paclitaxel response in cancer. The findings here demonstrating that GMCL1 mediates degradation of 53BP1 during mitotic arrest are solid and of interest to cell biologists, but it is unclear that these findings are relevant to paclitaxel response in patients.

      Strengths:

      This study identified 53BP1 as a target of CRL3GMCL1-mediated degradation during mitotic arrest. AlphaFold3 predictions of the binding interface, followed by mutational analysis, identified mutants of each protein (GMCL1 R433A and 53BP1 IEDI1422-1425AAAA) that disrupted their interaction. Knock-in of a FLAG tag into the C-terminus of GMCL1 in HCT116 cells, followed by FLAG immunoprecipitation, confirmed that endogenous GMCL1 interacts with endogenous CUL3 and 53BP1 during mitotic arrest.

      Weaknesses:

      The clinical relevance of the study is overinterpreted. The authors have not taken relevant data about the clinical mechanism of taxanes into account. Supraphysiologic doses of microtubule poisons cause mitotic arrest and can activate the mitotic stopwatch. However, in physiologic concentrations of clinically useful microtubule poisons, cells proceed through mitosis and divide their chromosomes on mitotic spindles that are at least transiently multipolar. Though these low concentrations may result in a brief mitotic delay, it is substantially shorter than the arrest caused by high concentrations of microtubule poisons, and the one mimicked here by 16 hours of 0.4 mg/mL nocodazole, which is not used clinically and does not induce multipolar spindles. Resistance to mitotic arrest occurs through different mechanisms than resistance to multipolar spindles. No evidence is presented in the current version of the manuscript that GMCL1 affects cellular response to clinically relevant doses of paclitaxel.

      We agree that it would be an overstatement to claim that GMCL1 and p53 regulates paclitaxel sensitivity in cancer patients in a clinical context. The correlations we observed were based on publicly available cancer cell lines from datasets catalogued in CCLE and DepMap, which do not fully account for clinical heterogeneity and patient-specific factors. In response to this important point, we have revised the text accordingly. 

      In the experiments shown in former Figure 4A-H (now Figure 5A-H) and in those shown in the new Figure 5I-J, we used 100 nM paclitaxel to test the hypothesis that low GMCL1 levels sensitizes cancer cells in a p53-dependent manner. Here, paclitaxel was chosen to mimic the conditions reported in the PRISM dataset (PMID: 32613204), which compiles the proliferation inhibitory activity of 4,518 compounds tested across 578 cancer cell lines. Consistent with our cell cycle findings, the paclitaxel sensitivity caused by GMCL1 depletion was reverted by silencing 53BP1 or USP28 (new Figure 5I-J), again supporting the involvement of the stopwatch complex. We are unsure about how to model the “physiologic concentrations of clinically useful microtubule poisons” in cell-based studies. A recent review notes that “The time above a threshold paclitaxel plasma concentration (0.05 mmol/L) is important for the efficacy and toxicity of the drug” (PMID: 28612269).  Two other reviews mention that the clinically relevant concentration of paclitaxel is considered to be plasma levels between 0.05–0.1 μmol/L (approximately 50–100 nM) and that in clinical dosing, typical patient plasma concentrations after paclitaxel infusion range from 80–280 nM, with corresponding intratumoral concentrations between 1.1–9.0 μM, due to drug accumulation in tumor tissue (PMIDs: 24670687 and  29703818).  We have now emphasized in the revised text the rationale for using 100 nM paclitaxel in our experiments.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      General comments on the Figures:

      (1) Western blots lack molecular weight markers on most panels and are often over-exposed and over-contrasted, rendering them hard to interpret.

      We have now included molecular weight markers in all Western blot panels. We have also reprocessed the images to avoid overexposure and excessive contrast, ensuring that the bands are clearly visible and interpretable.

      (2) Input and IP samples do not show percentage loading, so it is hard to interpret relative enrichments.

      In the revised figures, we have indicated what % of the input was loaded.

      (3) The authors change between cell line models for their experiments, and this is not clear in the figures. These are important details for interpreting the data, as many of the cell lines used are not functional for the mitotic surveillance pathway.

      In the revised manuscript, we have clearly indicated the specific cell lines used in each experiment in the figure legends. Additionally, to address concerns regarding the mitotic surveillance pathway, we have included new experiments using hTERT-RPE1 cells, which have been reported to possess a functional mitotic surveillance pathway (MSP) (Figure 4I-J).

      (4) No n-numbers are provided in the figure legends. Are the Western blots provided done once, or are they reproducible? Many of the blots would benefit from quantification and presentation via graphs to test for reproducible changes to 53BP1 levels under the different conditions.

      As now indicated in the methods section, we have conducted each Western blot no less than three times, yielding results that exhibit a high degree of reproducibility. A representative Western blot has been selected for each figure. We did not include densiometric quantification of immunoblots, given that the semi-quantitative nature of this technique would lead to an overinterpretation of our data; unfortunately, this is a limitation of the technique. In fact, eLife and other similar scientific journals do not adhere to the practice of quantifying Western blots. One exception to this norm is for protein half-life studies, which is done to measure the kinetics of decay rates and their internal comparisons. Accordingly, the experiments in Figure 2C were quantified.

      (5) Graphs displayed in the supplementary figures are blacked out, and individual data points cannot be visualised. All graphs should have individual data points clearly visible.

      We revised the quantified graphs and replaced them with scatter plots to clearly display individual data points, showing sample distribution.

      Additional experiments with specific comments on Figures:

      (1) Figure 1C-D: the relative amount of 53BP1 co-precipitating with FLAG-tagged GMCL1 WT appears very different between the two experiments. If the idea is that MLN4924 (Cullin neddylation inhibitor) makes the interaction easier to capture, then this should be explained in the text, and ideally shown on the same gel/blot -/+ MLN4924.

      We now present the samples treated with and without MLN4924 on the same gel/blot to allow direct comparison (new Figure 1D) and clarified this point in the text.

      (2) Figure 1E: The figure legend states that GMCL1 was immunoprecipitated, but the Figure looks as though FLAG-tagged 53BP1 was the bait protein being immunoprecipitated? Can the authors clarify?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the discrepancy between the figure and the figure legend in Figure 1E. The immunoprecipitation was indeed performed using FLAG-tagged 53BP1, and we have now rectified the figure legend accordingly. 

      (3) Figure 1F: Rather than parental cell lysate, the better control would be to IP FLAG from another FLAG-tagged expressing cell line, to rule out non-specific binding with the FLAG tag at the non-overexpressed level. 

      Figure 1F shows interaction at the endogenous level. The specificity of binding with overexpressed proteins is shown in Figures 1C and 1D.

      The USP28 blot is over-exposed and makes it hard to see any changes in electrophoretic mobility - it looks as though there is a change between the parental and the KI cell line? It is surprising that USP28 would co-IP with GMCL1 (presumably because USP28 is bound to 53BP1) if the function of GMCL1-53BP1 interaction is to promote 53BP1 degradation. Can the authors reconcile this? Crucially, if the authors claim that the 53BP1-GMCL1 interaction is specific to prolonged mitosis, then this experiment should be repeated and performed with asynchronous, normal-length mitosis, and prolonged mitosis conditions. This is vital for supporting the claim that this interaction only occurs during prolonged mitoses and does not occur in every mitosis regardless of length.

      This is a good point. Unfortunately, many of the protein-protein interactions occur post lysis. Therefore, we could not observe differences in asynchronous vs. mitotic cells.

      (4) Figure S1F: Label on blot should be CUL3 not CUI3.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out and we have corrected the typo.

      (5) Figure 2A: The authors suggest an increase in chromatin-bound 53BP1 in GMCL1 KO U2OS cells, specifically in M phase. Again, is this time in mitosis dependent, or would this be evident in every mitosis, regardless of length? Such an experiment would benefit from repetition and quantification to test whether the observed effect is reproducibly consistent. If the authors' model is correct, simply treating U2OS WT mitotic cells with MG132 during the mitotic arrest and performing the same fractionation should bring 53BP1 levels up to that seen in GMCL1 KO cells under the same conditions.

      The reviewer’s suggestion to assess 53BP1 accumulation in wild-type U2OS cells treated with MG132 during mitotic arrest is indeed highly relevant. However, treatment with MG132 during prolonged mitosis consistently led to significant cell death, making it technically challenging to evaluate 53BP1 levels under these conditions.

      (6) Figure 2B: The authors restore GMCL1 expression in the KO U2OS cells using WT and 2 distinct mutant cDNAs. However, the expression of these constructs is not equivalent, and thus their effects cannot be directly compared. It is also surprising that GMCL1 is much higher in M phase samples in this experiment (shouldn't it be destroyed?), when no such behaviour has been observed in the other figures.

      There is no evidence in our study or others that GMCL1 should be destroyed in M phase.  We show that the R433A mutant is expressed at a level very similar to the WT protein, yet it doesn’t promote the degradation of 53BP1. It is true that the E142K is expressed less in mitotic cells whereas is the most expressed in asynchronous cells. For some reason, this mutant has an inverse behavior compared to the WT, limiting the interpretation of this result. We now mention this in the text. 

      (7) Figure 2C: The CHX experiment would benefit from inclusion of a control protein known to have a short half-life (e.g. c-myc, p53). Is GMCL1 known to have a relatively short half-life? It looks as though GMCL1 disappears after 1 h CHX treatment (although hard to definitively tell in the absence of molecular weight markers). 53BP1 appears to continue declining in the absence of GMCL1, which is surprising if p53BP1 degradation requires GMCL1. How can the authors reconcile this?

      As a control for the CHX chase experiments, we included p21, whose protein levels decreased in a CHX-dependent. GMCL1 itself also appeared to undergo degradation upon CHX treatment, but it doesn’t disappear completely.

      (8) Supplemental Figure 2:

      Transcription is largely inhibited in M phase, so the p53 target gene transcripts present in M phase are inherited from the preceding G2 phase. The qPCR's thus need a reference sample to compare against. I.e., was p21/PUMA/NOXA mRNA already low in G2 in the GMCL1 KO + WT cells before they entered mitosis? Or is the mRNA stability affected during M phase specifically? Is this effect on the mRNA dependent on the time in mitosis?

      It is well established that transcription is not entirely shut down during mitosis, particularly for a subset of genes involved in cell cycle regulation. For example, p21, PUMA, NOXA, and p53 mRNAs have been shown to remain actively transcribed during mitosis (see Table S5 in PMID: 28912132). However, we currently lack direct evidence that p53 activation during mitosis, specifically through the mitotic surveillance pathway, drives the transcription of p21, PUMA, or NOXA mRNAs during M phase. In the absence of such mechanistic data, we opted to exclude these analyses from the final figures.

      Panel B: blots are too over-exposed to see differences in p53 stability under the different conditions. Mitotic samples should be included to show how these differ from the G1 samples.

      The background of all blot images has been adjusted to ensure clarity and consistency.

      Panel D: The authors show no significant difference in the cell cycle profiles of the GMCL1 KO and reconstituted cells compared to parental U2OS cells. This should also be performed in the G1 daughter cells following a prolonged mitosis, to test the effect of the different GMCL1 constructs on G1 cell cycle arrest. U2OS cells have been reported not to have a functional mitotic surveillance pathway (Meitinger et al, Science, 2024), so U2OS cells are perhaps not a good model for testing this.

      We performed cell cycle profiling using EdU incorporation in hTERT-RPE1 cells, which possess a functional MSP, to evaluate cell cycle progression in daughter cells following prolonged mitosis. We observed that GMCL1 knockdown alone leads to G1-phase arrest. In contrast, co-depletion of GMCL1 with either 53BP1 or USP28 bypasses this arrest, indicating that GMCL1 regulates cell cycle progression in an MSP-dependent manner. Please see also the answer to the public review above. 

      (9) Figure 3:

      The authors show expression data for GMCL1 in the different cancer cell lines. This should be validated for a subset of cancer cell lines at the GMCL1 protein level, and cross-correlated to their MSP/mitotic timer status. Does GMCL1 depletion or knockout in p53 wild-type cancer cell lines overexpressing GMCL1 protein restore mitotic surveillance function?

      We were unable to assess GMCL1 protein levels using publicly available proteomics datasets, as GMCL1 expression was not detected. In p53 wild-type hTERT-RPE1 cells, GMCL1 knockdown impaired the mitotic surveillance pathway, as evidenced by G1-phase arrest following prolonged mitosis (new Figure 3A and new Supplementary Figure 3A, B). This arrest was rescued by co-depletion of either TP53BP1 or USP28, indicating that GMCL1 acts upstream of the MSP.

      (10) Figure 4:

      The authors show siRNA experiments depleting GMCL1 and testing the effects of GMCL1 loss on cell viability and apoptosis induction. This is performed in different cell line backgrounds. However, there is no demonstration that any of the observed effects are due to a lack of GMCL1 activity on 53BP1. These experiments need to be repeated in 53BP1 co-depleted cells to test for rescue. Without this, the interpretation is purely correlative.

      We assessed the effects of GMCL1 knockdown, alone or in combination with TP53BP1 or USP28 knockdown, on cell viability and apoptosis in hTERT-RPE1 cells using siRNA. Knockdown of GMCL1 alone led to a significant reduction in cell viability and an increase in apoptosis. However, co-depletion of GMCL1 with either TP53BP1 or USP28 restored both cell viability and apoptosis levels to those observed in control cells (new Figure 5I,J).

      (11) Text comments:

      Line 257: HeLa cells supress p53 through the E6 viral protein and are not "mutant" for p53.

      The authors should cite early work by Uetake and Sluder describing the effects of spindle poisons on the mitotic surveillance pathway.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comments – We have now made the necessary corrections.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major Points:

      (1) Unsubstantiated Mechanistic Claims:

      In Figures 3 and 4, the authors show correlations between GMCL1 expression and sensitivity to Taxol. However, they fail to demonstrate that the mitotic stopwatch is mechanistically involved. To support this conclusion, the authors must test whether deletion of 53BP1, USP28, or disruption of their interaction rescues Taxol sensitivity in GMCL1-depleted cells. Since 53BP1 also plays a role in DNA damage response, such rescue experiments are necessary to distinguish between mitotic surveillance-specific and broader stress-response effects. Deletion of USP28 would be particularly informative.

      We sought to experimentally determine whether GMCL1 is involved in regulating the mitotic stopwatch. Knockdown of GMCL1 alone resulted in reduced cell proliferation and increased apoptosis. In contrast, co-depletion of GMCL1 with either TP53BP1 or USP28 restored both proliferation and apoptosis levels to those observed in control cells (new Figure 5I, J). To further strengthen our mechanistic experiments, we assessed the effect of GMCL1 levels on cell cycle progression. We conducted EdU incorporation assays following nocodazole synchronization and release. Knockdown of GMCL1 alone led to a delay in G1 progression, whereas co-depletion of either TP53BP1 or USP28 rescued normal cell cycle progression (new Figure 3A and new Supplementary Figure 3A, B). These results are consistent with our proliferation data and suggest that GMCL1 functions upstream of the ternary complex, likely by regulating 53BP1 protein levels.

      (2) Model System Limitations (U2OS Cells):

      The use of U2OS cells is highly problematic for investigating the mitotic surveillance pathway. U2OS cells lack a functional mitotic stopwatch and do not arrest following prolonged mitosis in a 53BP1/USP28-dependent manner (PMID: 38547292). Therefore, conclusions drawn from this model system about the function of the mitotic surveillance pathway are not substantiated. Key experiments should be repeated in a cell line with an intact pathway, such as RPE1.

      We now performed all key experiments also hTERT-RPE1 cells (see above). We also would like to point out that while some papers suggest that HCT116 and U2OS cells do not have an intact mitotic surveillance pathway, others have showed that the MSP is indeed functioning in HCT116 cells and can be triggered with variable efficiency in U2OS cells (PMID: 38547292).  This is likely due to high heterogeneity and extensive clonal diversity of cancer cell lines grown in different labs. Please see examples in PMIDs: 3620713, 30089904, and 30778230. In particular, PMID: 30089904 shows that this heterogeneity correlates with considerably different drug responses. 

      (3) Misinterpretation of p53 Activity Timing:

      The manuscript states that "GMCL1 KO cells led to decreased mRNA levels of p21 and NOXA during mitosis" (line 194). However, it is well established that the mitotic surveillance pathway activates p53 in the G1 phase following prolonged mitosis-not during mitosis itself (PMID: 38547292). Therefore, the observed changes in mRNA levels during mitosis are unlikely to be relevant to this pathway.

      We currently lack direct evidence that p53 activated during mitosis through the mitotic surveillance pathway directly influences the transcription of p21, PUMA, or NOXA mRNAs during M phase. Therefore, we have chosen to exclude these data from the final figures.

      (4) Incorrect Interpretation of 53BP1 Chromatin Binding:

      The authors claim that 53BP1 remains associated with chromatin during mitosis, which contradicts established literature. It is known that 53BP1 is released from chromatin during mitosis via mitosis-specific phosphorylation (PMID: 24703952), and this is supported by more recent findings (PMID: 38547292). A likely explanation for the discrepancy may be contamination of mitotic fractions with interphase cells. The chromatin fraction data in Figure 2C must be interpreted with caution.

      Our method to synchronize in M phase is rather stringent (see Supplementary Figure 3D as an example). The literature indicates that the bulk of 53BP1 is released from chromatin during mitosis. Yet, even in the two publications mentioned by the reviewer, there is a difference in the observable amount of 53BP1 bound to chromatin (compare Figure 2B in PMID: 38547292 and Figure 5A in PMID: 24703952). The difference is likely due to the different biochemical approaches used to purify chromatin bound proteins (salt and detergent concentrations, sonication, etc.). Using our fractionation approach, we can reliably separate the soluble fraction (containing also the nucleoplasmic fraction) and chromatin associated proteins as indicated by the controls such as a-Tubulin and Histon H3.  We have now mentioned these limitations when comparing different fractionation methods in our discussion section.

      (5) Inadequate Citation of Foundational Literature:

      The literature on the mitotic surveillance pathway is relatively limited, and it is essential that the authors provide a comprehensive and accurate account of its development. The foundational work by the Sluder lab (PMID: 20832310), demonstrating a p53-dependent arrest following prolonged mitosis, must be cited. Furthermore, the three key 2016 papers (PMID: 27432896, 27432897, 27432896) that identified the involvement of USP28 and 53BP1 in this pathway are critical and should be cited as the basis of the mitotic surveillance pathway.

      In contrast, the manuscript currently emphasizes publications that either contribute minimally or have been contradicted by prior and subsequent work. For example: PMID: 31699974, which proposes Ser15 phosphorylation of p53 as critical, has been contradicted by multiple groups (e.g., Holland, Oegema, and Tsou labs).

      PMID: 37888778, which suggests that 53BP1 must be released from kinetochores, is inconsistent with findings that indicate kinetochore localization is not relevant.

      The authors should thoroughly revise the Introduction to reflect what this reviewer would describe as a more accurate and scholarly approach to the literature.

      We have substantially revised both the Introduction and Discussion sections to incorporate important references kindly suggested by the reviewer.

      Minor Points:

      (1) Overexposed Western Blots:

      The Western blots throughout the manuscript are heavily overexposed and saturated, obscuring differences in protein levels and hindering data interpretation. The authors should provide properly exposed blots with quantification where appropriate.

      We have provided Western blot images with appropriate exposure levels and included quantification where appropriate (i.e., to measure the kinetics of decay rates as in Figure 2C). For all the other immunoblots, we did not include densiometric quantification, given that the semi-quantitative nature of this technique would lead to overinterpretation of our data. This is, unfortunately, a limitation of the technique. In fact, eLife and other similar scientific journals do not adhere to the practice of quantifying Western blot analyses. 

      (2) Missing information in the graphs in Figure 2C and 4; S2? How many repeats? What are the asterisks?

      Panels referenced above have been repeated several times, and further details are now provided in the figure legends.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1)   The claim that GMCL1 modulates paclitaxel sensitivity in cancer should be toned down

      .

      We agree that it would be an overstatement to claim that GMCL1 regulates paclitaxel sensitivity in cancer patients in a clinical context. The correlations we observed were based on publicly available, cell line–based datasets, which do not fully account for clinical heterogeneity and patient-specific factors. In response to this important point, we have revised our statements and corresponding text accordingly. We now placed greater emphasis on our molecular and cell biology studies.

      (2) Additional experiments in low, physiologically relevant concentrations of paclitaxel would be interesting. It is possible that these concentrations activate the mitotic stopwatch in a portion of cells, in addition to inducing cell death due to chromosome loss, activation of an immune response, and chromothripsis. Results should be interpreted in the context of this complexity.

      Please see the response to the public review. 

      (3) It would be helpful to show that CUL3 interacts with 53BP1 only in the presence of GMCL1.

      We show that the binding of 53BP1 to GMCL1 is independent of the ability of GMCL1 to bind CUL3 (Figure 1C, D). The binding between 53BP1 and CUL3 is difficult to detect (Figure 1F) likely because it’s not direct but mediated by GMCL1.

      (4) The GMCL1 "KO" lines appear to still express a low level of GMCL1 (Figure 2A), which should be acknowledged

      We have included the GMCL1 mRNA expression data, as measured by RT-PCR, in Supplementary Figure 1G, demonstrating that GMCL1 expression was undetectable under the tested conditions.

      (5) Additional description of the methods is warranted. This is particularly true for the database analysis that forms the basis for the claim that GMCL1 overexpression causes resistance to paclitaxel and other taxanes presented in Figure 3, the methodology used to obtain M-phase cells, and the concentration and duration of taxol treatment.

      We have now extensively revised the Methods section.  

      (6) "Taxol" and "paclitaxel" are used interchangeably throughout the manuscript. Consistency would be preferable.

      We have revised the manuscript to maintain consistency in the use of the terms “Taxol” and “paclitaxel” and now refer to “paclitaxel” when discussing that individual compound; “taxanes” when referring collectively to cabazitaxel, docetaxel and paclitaxel; and “Taxol” has been removed entirely to avoid redundancy or confusion.    

      (7) It is unclear why it is claimed that GMCL1 interacts "specifically" with 53BP1 (line 176) since multiple interactors were identified in the IP-MS study

      We meant that the GMCL1 R433A mutant loses its ability to bind 53BP1, suggesting that the GMCL1-53BP1 interaction is not an artifact. We have now clarified the text. 

      (8) The bottom row in Figure S3 is misleading. Paclitaxel is not uniformly effective in every tumor of any given type, and so resistance occurs in every cancer type.

      We fully agree that cancer is highly heterogeneous and that paclitaxel efficacy varies across tumors, even within the same histological subtype. Our intension was not to suggest uniform sensitivity/resistance, but rather to provide a high-level overview using aggregated data. We acknowledge that this coarse-grained representation may unintentionally imply overly generalized conclusions. To avoid potential misinterpretation, we have removed the corresponding panel in the revised paper.

    1. To ensure a smooth transition in this chapter, it might be helpful to briefly mention 두레생협, which carries on the spirit of 두레. In addition, a short introduction to how folk music such as 사물놀이 and other forms of traditional culture were later inherited and revitalized within Hansalim would add interest.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study presents a valuable advance in reconstructing naturalistic speech from intracranial ECoG data using a dual-pathway model. The evidence supporting the claims of the authors is solid, although the rationale for employing a smaller language model rather than a large language model (LLM) should be further clarified. This work will be of interest to cognitive neuroscientists and computer scientists/engineers working on speech reconstruction from neural data.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper introduces a dual-pathway model for reconstructing naturalistic speech from intracranial ECoG data. It integrates an acoustic pathway (LSTM + HiFi-GAN for spectral detail) and a linguistic pathway (Transformer + Parler-TTS for linguistic content). Output from the two components is later merged via CosyVoice2.0 voice cloning. Using only 20 minutes of ECoG data per participant, the model achieves high acoustic fidelity and linguistic intelligibility.

      Strengths:

      (1) The proposed dual-pathway framework effectively integrates the strengths of neural-to-acoustic and neural-to-text decoding and aligns well with established neurobiological models of dual-stream processing in speech and language.

      (2) The integrated approach achieves robust speech reconstruction using only 20 minutes of ECoG data per subject, demonstrating the efficiency of the proposed method.

      (3) The use of multiple evaluation metrics (MOS, mel-spectrogram R², WER, PER) spanning acoustic, linguistic (phoneme and word), and perceptual dimensions, together with comparisons against noise-degraded baselines, adds strong quantitative rigor to the study.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) It is unclear how much the acoustic pathway contributes to the final reconstruction results, based on Figures 3B-E and 4E. Including results from Baseline 2 + CosyVoice and Baseline 3 + CosyVoice could help clarify this contribution.

      (2) As noted in the limitations, the reconstruction results heavily rely on pre-trained generative models. However, no comparison is provided with state-of-the-art multimodal LLMs such as Qwen3-Omni, which can process auditory and textual information simultaneously. The rationale for using separate models (Wav2Vec for speech and TTS for text) instead of a single unified generative framework should be clearly justified. In addition, the adaptor employs an LSTM architecture for speech but a Transformer for text, which may introduce confounds in the performance comparison. Is there any theoretical or empirical motivation for adopting recurrent networks for auditory processing and Transformer-based models for textual processing?

      (3) The model is trained on approximately 20 minutes of data per participant, which raises concerns about potential overfitting. It would be helpful if the authors could analyze whether test sentences with higher or lower reconstruction performance include words that were also present in the training set.

      (4) The phoneme confusion matrix in Figure 4A does not appear to align with human phoneme confusion patterns. For instance, /s/ and /z/ differ only in voicing, yet the model does not seem to confuse these phonemes. Does this imply that the model and the human brain operate differently at the mechanistic level?

      (5) In general, is the motivation for adopting the dual-pathway model to better align with the organization of the human brain, or to achieve improved engineering performance? If the goal is primarily engineering-oriented, the authors should compare their approach with a pretrained multimodal LLM rather than relying on the dual-pathway architecture. Conversely, if the design aims to mirror human brain function, additional analysis, such as detailed comparisons of phoneme confusion matrices, should be included to demonstrate that the model exhibits brain-like performance patterns.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study by Li et al. proposes a dual-path framework that concurrently decodes acoustic and linguistic representations from ECoG recordings. By integrating advanced pre-trained AI models, the approach preserves both acoustic richness and linguistic intelligibility, and achieves a WER of 18.9% with a short (~20-minute) recording.

      Overall, the study offers an advanced and promising framework for speech decoding. The method appears sound, and the results are clear and convincing. My main concerns are the need for additional control analyses and for more comparisons with existing models.

      Strengths:

      (1) This speech-decoding framework employs several advanced pre-trained DNN models, reaching superior performance (WER of 18.9%) with relatively short (~20-minute) neural recording.

      (2) The dual-pathway design is elegant, and the study clearly demonstrates its necessity: The acoustic pathway enhances spectral fidelity while the linguistic pathway improves linguistic intelligibility.

      Weaknesses:

      The DNNs used were pre-trained on large corpora, including TIMIT, which is also the source of the experimental stimuli. More generally, as DNNs are powerful at generating speech, additional evidence is needed to show that decoding performance is driven by neural signals rather than by the DNNs' generative capacity.

    4. Author response:

      Here we provide a provisional response addressing the public comments and outlining the revisions we are planning to make:

      (1) We will add additional baseline models to delineate the contributions of the acoustic and linguistic pathways.

      (2) We will show additional ablation analysis and other model comparison results, as suggested by the reviewers, to justify the choice of the DNN models.

      (3) We will clarify the use of the TIMIT dataset during pre-training. In fact, the TIMIT speech data (the speech corpora used in the test set) was not included or used when pre-training the acoustic or linguistic pathway. It was only used in fine-tuning the final speech synthesizer (the cosyvoice model). We will present results without this fine-tuning step, which will fully eliminate the usage of the TIMIT data during model training.

      (4) We will further analyze the phoneme confusion matrices and/or other data to evaluate the model behavior.

      (5) We will analyze the test sentences with high and low accuracies. We will also include results with partial training data (e.g. using 25%, 50%, 75% of the training set) to further evaluate the impact of the total amount of training data.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This fundamental study provides compelling evidence for the functional segregation of the sensorimotor cortex into precisely delineated areas, and highlights a rapid transition in functional properties at the boundaries between these areas. This result further confirms and extends recent work on the diversity of neural response specificities across cortical areas in the context of complex behavioral tasks. This work will be of interest to neuroscientists studying sensory-motor functions.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Here, the authors address the organization of reach-related activity in layer 2/3 across a broad swath of anterodorsal neocortex that included large subregions of M1, M2, and S1. In mice performing a novel variant water-reaching task, the authors measured activity using two-photon fluorescence imaging of a GECI expressed in excitatory projection neurons. The authors found a substantial diversity of response patterns using a number of metrics they developed for characterizing the PETHs of neurons across reach conditions (target locations). By mapping single-neuron properties across the cortex, the authors found substantial spatial variation, only some of which aligned with traditional boundaries between cortical regions. Using Gaussian mixture models, the authors found evidence of distinct response types in each region, with several types prominent in multiple cortical regions. Aggregating across regions, four primary subpopulations were apparent, each distinct in its average response properties. Strikingly, each subpopulation was observed in multiple regions, but subpopulation members from different regions exhibited largely similar response properties.

      Strengths:

      The work addresses a fundamental question in the field that has not previously been addressed at cellular resolution across such a broad cortical extent. I see this as truly foundational work that will support future investigation of how the rodent brain drives and controls reaching.

      The quantification is thoughtful and rigorous. It is great that the authors provide an explanation for and intuition behind their response metrics, rather than burying everything in the Methods.

      The Discussion and general contextualization of the results are thorough, thoughtful, and strong. It is great that the authors avoid the common over-interpretation of classical observations regarding cortical organization that are endemic in the field.

      All things considered, this is the best paper regarding spatial structure in the motor system I have ever read. The breadth of cellular resolution activity measurement, the rigor of the quantification, and the clear and open-minded interrogation of the data collectively have produced a very special piece of work.

      Weaknesses:

      The behavioral task is very impressive and an important contribution to the field in its own right. However, given that it appears substantially different from the one used in the previous paper, the characterization of the behavior provided in the Results is too brief. More illustration of the behavior would be helpful. For example, it is rather deep into the paper when the authors reveal that the mice can whisk to help localize the target location. That should be expressed at the outset when the behavior is first described. Other suggestions for elaborating the behavior description are included below.

      Statistical support for key claims is lacking. For example, "The five areas of interest varied in the fraction of neurons that were modulated: M2 had 14%, M1 had 23%, S1-fl had 30%, S1-hl had 25%, and S1-tr had 27%" - I cannot locate the statistical tests showing that these values are actually different. Another example is Figure 7, where a key observation is that distributions of PETH features are distinct across regions. It is clear that at least some distributions are not overlapping, but a clearer statistical basis for this key claim should be provided.

      I understand that the authors are planning a follow-up study that addresses the relation between activity patterns and kinematics. One question about interpreting the results here though, is how much the activity variation across target locations may relate to the kinematic differences across these different conditions, as opposed to true higher-order movement features like reach direction.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The functional parcellation of cortical areas is a critical question in neuroscience. This is particularly true in frontal areas in mice. While sensory areas are relatively well characterized by their tuning to sensory stimuli, the situation is much less clear for motor areas. This has become even more ambiguous since recent studies using large-scale neuronal recordings consistently report mixed sensory and motor-related activity throughout the brain, and motor mapping studies have shown that movements evoked by cortical stimulation are by no means limited to motor areas alone. Here, the authors use a correlation approach combining large-scale functional imaging at cellular resolution with movement-tracking in mice executing a reaching task. Across multiple recording sessions in the same animals, the authors have imaged a large portion of the sensorimotor cortex at cellular resolution in mice performing a reaching task, recording the activity of nearly 40,000 neurons. By aligning the calcium signal of each neuron to three task events-the Go cue triggering the reach, the onset of paw lift, and the contact between the paw and the target-for different target positions, the authors identified different response patterns distributed differently across cortical areas. They defined a set of features that describe the neurons' response pattern, representing the temporal dynamics and tuning properties for the different target positions. These features were used to construct cortical maps, and the authors show that, interestingly, gradient maps obtained from the first derivative of the feature maps reveal sharp discontinuities at the boundaries between anatomically defined cortical areas. Using dimensionality reduction of the neuronal response features, the authors found that, despite clear differences in their average response properties, individual neurons from the same cortical areas do not form distinct clusters in the reduced-dimensional space. In fact, most areas contain heterogeneous neuronal populations, and most neuronal populations are present in multiple areas, albeit in different proportions. Interestingly, the authors identified four neuronal subpopulations based on the distance between the components of the Gaussian mixture model used to model the distribution of neurons within each area. One of these subpopulations is almost exclusively represented in the anterior M2 cortex, while another is broadly distributed across the different areas.

      Strengths:

      This article is based on an impressive dataset of nearly 40,000 neurons covering a large portion of the sensorimotor cortex and on innovative analytical approaches. This study is likely the first to clearly demonstrate boundaries between cortical areas defined based on the responses of individual neurons. This innovative approach to functional mapping of cortical areas potentially opens up new perspectives for higher-resolution mapping of frontal cortical areas, using a broader repertoire of sensory and motor evoked responses.

      Weaknesses:

      The second part of the article, which presents multimodal responses in the cortical areas, seems to be a perhaps overly complicated way of showing what has already been demonstrated in numerous recent publications, but these new analyses expand upon these previous observations by revealing an interesting functional organization of the sensorimotor cortex, highlighting interesting similarities and differences between certain areas.

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      Overall the page is well setup. I feel that if we can include some of the keyword terms through the content it will rank without needing to overhaul the pages.

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    2. Marketplace & Multi-Channel Integrations for Smarter Parcel Delivery

      The whole page needs to look at including terms like software, solution, service in the content of any content on this page - keywords are multi channel delivery software multi channel delivery solution multi channel shipping software multi channel service delivery multiple delivery channels

    1. eLife Assessment

      The authors present evidence for a WIPI2-Retriever complex (termed CROP2) that couples cargo selection to carrier fission at endosomes. CROP2 appears to function analogously to the previously described CROP1 complex, formed by WIPI1 and Retromer, with which it shares structural similarities. They provide convincing evidence that CROP1 and CROP2 regulate the trafficking of distinct subsets of cargoes; however, the cellular evidence for the existence of these distinct complexes remains incomplete. Overall, the findings are important and expand our understanding of how cargo selection by Retriever and Retromer is orchestrated at endosomes.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      WIPI1 is a PROPPIN family protein that has been implicated in Retromer-mediated membrane fission events. Although the cargos that it has been tested to be important for are diverse, one of the cargos that is unaffected is Beta1-Integrin. This leads the authors to assess another PROPPIN family protein - WIPI2, which is a homolog of WIPI1. KD using siRNA is effective and had no consequences on LAMP1, EGFR trafficking or GLUT1 trafficking. Integrin-B1, however, had a large and significant defect in its recycling from the endosome, with a clear endosomal colocalisation. Complementation experiments with WT WIPI2 recovered the phenotype, but various mutant WIPI2 complements resulted in elongated tubules, and there was also a dominant negative effect of the mutant. Integrin is a classic retreiver cargo, so the authors rationalise that WIPI2 may be playing a role with retreiver that WIPI1 plays with retromer. To assess this, they perform a set of immunoprecipitations. SNX17, the retreiver-associated sorting nexin, co-IPs with WIPI2 in a VPS26C-dependent manner. VPS26C but not VPS26 co-IPs with WIPI2, and the reciprocal with WIPI1. These interactions were not present for the FSSS mutation of WIPI2. WIPI2 localises to Rab11 endosomes mainly, as does retriever. Mutations of WIPI2 not only affected WIPI2 localisation, but also VPS35L mutations, indicating that there is a functional relationship between the two.

      On the whole, I find the manuscript compelling. The manuscript is very clearly written, the results are convincing and well performed. The flow of experiments is logical, and although not comprehensive in the subsequent mechanistic understanding, the fundamental findings are important and convincing. My comments below are, on the whole, minor and are intended to support the communication of the findings to the field.

      (1) The IP interaction data were convincing; however, for me and some others, an interaction is only convincing when performed in vitro, and understood at a structural level. I do not suggest the authors do that in this case; however, I think, at a minimum, some sensible moderation of claims would be useful here.

      (2) I found the final localisation data and its interpretation confusing. My interpretation of that data would not be that the retreiver is relocalised, but rather that there is less of both recruited to the membrane and the remaining localisation distribution is shifted. In addition, I am not quite sure of the model here - is the idea that WIPI2 recruits retreiver, if that is the case, I find it hard to resolve with its role as a mediator of fission. Clarity would be appreciated here.

      (3) I am concerned that the repeats being compared for statistical analysis are not biological repeats but technical repeats (cells in the same experiment). I should think the idea of the statistical comparison is to show experimental reproducibility and variability across biological repeats. Therefore, I would expect an appropriate number of biological repeats (3 or more minimum), to be the data compared in the statistical analysis and graphs. I think it is appropriate to average the technical repeats from each biological repeat. I find these to be useful resources https://doi.org/10.1083/jcb.202401074, https://doi.org/10.1083/jcb.200611141

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript from De Leo and Mayer presents evidence that the PROPPIN protein, WIPI2, associates with the Retriever complex, and is required for the proper transport of the SNX17-Retriever cargo, beta1-integrin. This finding fits with prior papers from the Mayer lab, which showed that a related PROPPIN, WIPI1, is required for the transport of some SNX27-Retromer cargo, including GLUT1. The retromer and retriever complexes are architecturally similar. Importantly, they act at the same endosomes, and each transports cargo from endosomes to the plasma membrane. Thus, the possibility that each also requires a structurally related PROPPIN is of interest. However, the manuscript is incomplete, and the main claims are only partially supported.

      Strengths:

      The topic that PROPPIN proteins are important for the function of the Retromer and Retriever complexes expands our view of the trafficking complex.

      Weaknesses:

      Many important controls are missing. Several points that are made in the manuscript are only supported through a single approach.

    4. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript of Mayer and colleagues analyzes the function of WIPI proteins in mammalian cells. The authors previously identified CROP as a complex consisting of WIPI1 and the retromer complex, primarily in yeast cells. In mammalian cells, both WIPI1 and WIPI2 exist, whereas retromer has a homologous complex termed retriever. They now find that WIPI2 can form a complex with retriever subunits. They named this complex CROP2. Their data further indicate that CROP2 and CROP1 have distinct substrate specificities as knockdown of CROP2 subunits affects beta1 integrin sorting, whereas knockdown of CROP1 affects EGFR and GLUT1. They further identify a similar sequence (FSSS) in both WIPI1 and WIPI2, which is required for their specific binding to retromer and retriever.

      Strengths:

      CROP1 and CROP2 seem to use similar features for their formation, and have different substrates, which is convincingly shown.

      Weaknesses:

      The analysis lacks information that this is a complex as claimed. It can be deduced from the interaction analysis, but was not shown.

    1. Note: This response was posted by the corresponding author to Review Commons. The content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Reply to the reviewers

      Manuscript number: RC-2025-03206

      Corresponding author(s____): Teresa M. Przytycka

      General Statements

      We thank all the reviewers for their time and their constructive criticism, based on which we have revised our manuscript. All review comments in are italics. Our responses are indicated in normal font except the excerpts from manuscript which are shown within double quote and in italics. The line numbers indicated here refer to those in the revised manuscript.

      Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      This paper addresses the interesting question of how cell size may scale with organ size in different tissues. The approach is to mine data from the fly single cell atlas (FCA) which despite its name is a database of gene expression levels in single isolated nuclei. Using this data, they infer cell size based on ribosomal protein gene expression, and based on this approach infer that there are tissue and sex specific differences in scaling, some of which may be driven by differences in ribosomal protein gene expression.

      Response: Indeed, using the FCA dataset, we infer sex-specific differences in both cell size and cell number, which we validated with targeted experiments. We show that Drosophila cell types scale through distinct strategies-via cell size, cell number, or a mix of both-in an allometric rather than uniform fashion. We further propose that these scaling differences are driven, at least in part, by variation in translational activity, reflected in the expression of ribosomal proteins, translation elongation factors, and Myc.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      I think the idea of mining this database is a clever one, however there a number of concerns about whether the existing data can really be used to draw the conclusions that are stated.

      __Response: __We are pleased to see that the reviewer found the question and our approach interesting.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *One concern has to do with the assumption that RP (ribosome protein) expression is a proxy for cell size. It is well established that ribosome abundance scales with cell size, but is there reason to believe that ribosome nuclear gene EXPRESSION correlates with ribosome abundance? *

      I'm not saying that this can't be true, but it seems like a big assumption that needs to be justified with some data. Maybe this is well known in the Drosophila literature, but in that case the relevant literature really needs to be cited.

      __Response: __To avoid any misunderstanding: we use sex-biased RP expression as an indicator of sex differences in cell size only within the same cell type or subtype, as defined by expression-based clustering in the FCA-not as a general estimator of cell size. This measure is applied strictly within the same clusters, never between different ones. To prevent overinterpretation, we replaced the term 'proxy' with 'indicator,' since the earlier wording might have implied that ribosomal gene expression was being used to estimate cell size more broadly.

      We should have begun by providing more background on the well-established link between ribosomal protein gene dosage and cell growth. This context was missing from the introduction, so we have now added a full paragraph outlining what is known about this connection:

      *Added at line 85: *

      "Cell growth, which supports both cell enlargement and cell division, demands elevated protein synthesis, accomplished by boosting translation rates. Indeed, ribosome abundance is known to scale with cell size in many organisms (Schmoller and Skotheim 2015; Cadart and Heald 2022; Serbanescu et al. 2022). Long before it was known that DNA was the carrier of genetic information, Drosophila researchers had identified a large class of mutations known as "Minutes" (Schultz 1929). These were universally haplo-insufficient. A single wild type copy resulted in a tiny slowly growing fly, and the homozygous loss-of-function alleles were lethal. In clones, the Minute cells are clearly smaller and compete poorly with surrounding wild type cells. We now know that most of the Minute loci encode ribosomal proteins (Marygold et al. 2007). Similarly, the Drosophila diminutive locus, also characterized by small flies almost a century ago, is now known to encode the Myc oncogene (Gallant 2013). This is significant as Myc is a regulator of ribosomal protein encoding genes in metazoans, including Drosophila (Grewal et al. 2005). The ribosome is assembled in a specialized nuclear structure called the nucleolus (Ponti 2025). Across species, including Drosophila (Diegmiller et al. 2021) and C. elegans (Ma et al. 2018), nucleolar size scales with cell size and is broadly correlated with growth in cell size and/or cell number, processes that are directly relevant to sex-specific allometry. Collectively, these and many other studies offer compelling evidence that ribosomal biogenesis is positively associated with cell size and growth, underscoring the value of measuring ribosome biogenesis as a metric."

      We understand that the reviewer is asking whether reduced RP mRNA expression directly leads to reduced functional ribosome assembly. We do not have a definitive answer to that specific question. However, we directly measured translation in fat body cells (section: Female bias in ribosomal gene expression in fat body cells leads to sex-biased protein synthesis), and the results show a clear correlation between RP gene expression and biosynthetic activity; even though we did not track every step from transcription to ribosome assembly to polysome loading across all cell types. This would indeed be an excellent direction for future work, including polysome profiling and related assays. Importantly, we did examine the nucleolus (Figure 4), where ribosome assembly occurs, and showed that nucleolar volume scales with RP gene expression. This strongly supports the presence of sex-specific differences in ribosome biogenesis.

      Added at line 115:

      "Building on the earlier studies noted above, as well as our direct measurements of translation bias in the fat body, nucleolar size, and cell size, we used sex-biased expression of ribosomal proteins as an indicator of sex differences in per-nucleus cell size."

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      Second, the interpretation of RP expression as a proxy for cell size seems potentially at odds with the fact that some cells are multi-nucleate. Those cells are big because of multiple nuclei, and so they might not show any increase in ribosome expression per nucleus. presumably for multi-nucleate cells, RP expression if it reflects anything at all would be something to do with cell size PER nucleus.

      Response: Yes, this is a very important point, and this is why we chose multinucleated indirect flight muscles for our direct experimental analysis. We show that in indirect flight muscle cells, adult cell size is greatly influenced by the sex-specific number of nuclei per cell. The female muscle cells are larger and have larger nuclei count per cell. Additionally, they also have higher expression of ribosomal protein coding genes. As the latter data are from the single nucleus sequencing atlas, this already demonstrates what this reviewer is asking for: per nucleus, female muscle cells express more ribosome protein coding mRNAs.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *Third, it is well known that many tissues in Drosophila are polyploid or polytene. I don't know enough about the methodology used to produce the FCA to know whether this is somehow normalized. Otherwise, my hypothesis would be that nuclei showing higher RP expression might just be polyploid or polytene. You might say that this could be controlled by asking if all genes are similary upregulated, but that isn't the case since at least in polytene chromosomes it is well known that only a small number of genes are expressed at a given time, while many are silent. *

      Response: Yes, this is an excellent point. As noted above, our study does not distinguish among the different potential causes of sex differences in ribosomal mRNA copy number, as these may vary across cell types. We now explicitly acknowledge it in the discussion (line 327). Importantly, even in the cases when ribosomal gene expression bias primarily reflects differences in DNA content, this still represents a plausible mechanistic route linking ribosomal gene expression to increased nucleolar ribosome biogenesis and, ultimately, larger cell size. This possibility does not alter our main conclusions.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      Overall, I think a lot more foundational work would need to be done in order to allow the inference of cell size from RP expression. In a way, it is a bit unfortunate that they chose to do this work in Drosophila where so many cells are polyploid, although I gather that even in humans some tissues have this issue, for example large neurons in the brain.

      Response: We acknowledge that we did not clearly reference some of the foundational work in the literature. To address this, we have expanded the introduction to provide additional background and context. We also clarify that our fat body experiment offers independent support for the relationship between ribosomal gene expression bias, nuclear size bias, and corresponding biases in protein synthesis, thereby reinforcing the use of sex-specific ribosomal gene expression as an indicator of sex-specific cell size. Importantly, we assess this bias only within clusters, not between them. These clusters are derived from gene-expression-based clustering and are therefore relatively homogeneous. For example, as discussed in our response to Reviewer #3, the fat body contains several clusters that correspond to expression-defined subtypes of fat body cells. Our previous terminology may have inadvertently implied that we were using ribosomal gene expression to estimate cell size more broadly, which was not our intention.

      As for the choice of the organism, most of the authors are Drosophila researchers and we benefit from the unique, highly replicated data from whole head and whole body of both sexes. Such data is necessary for a non-biased estimation of the differences in nuclear number.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *Reviewer #1 (Significance (Required)):

      The idea that gene regulatory networks could "program" differences in scaling by changing levels of ribosomal protein gene expression is a tremendously important one if it can be established, because it would show a simple way for size scaling to be placed under control of developmental regulatory pathways. My original concern when I first looked at the abstract was going to be that yeah the results are interesting but a mechanism is not provided, but as I read it, that concern went away. showing that RP gene expression, which could be programmed by various driving pathways, can affect allometric scaling, would be extremely impactful and really change how we think about scaling, but putting it into the framework of gene expression networks that control other aspects of developmewnht. it would not be necessary to show which pathways actually drive these expression differences, the fact that they are different would be interesting enough to make everyone want to read this paper. But as discussed above I am not, however, convinced by the evidence presented here. So while I think it would be very significant if true, I am not convinced that the conclusion is well supported. This doesn't mean I have a reason to think it is false, just that its not well supported for the reasons I have given.*

      Response: We are grateful to the reviewer for this positive assessment of our findings despite lack of a specific mechanism. We also regret that our initial writing did not clearly situate our work within the foundational literature on the relationship between ribosomal biogenesis and scaling. The key contribution of our study is to demonstrate that sex-biased ribosomal biogenesis plays a role in allometric scaling, providing a basis for future mechanistic exploration. We hope that the revised manuscript now offers clear and compelling support for the conclusion that RP gene expression bias can influence allometric scaling.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      I hasten to point out that I could be entirely wrong, if the missing bits of logic (i.e. that RP expression matches ribosome abundance and that gene expression in the FCA dataset isn't influenced by ploidy of the nucleus). If suitable references can be provided to support these underlying assumptions, then in fact I think these concerns could be answered with very little effort. Otherwise, I think experiments would be needed to support these assumptions, and that might be non-trivial to do in a reasonable time frame. for that reason, in the next question I have put "cannot tell" for the time estimate.

      Response: While gene expression in some FCA cell types may indeed be influenced by ploidy, our analysis does not depend on distinguishing among the possible sources of gene expression bias, which may vary across cell types. Rather, our key point is that-regardless of its origin-an increase in ribosomal gene expression is associated with enhanced ribosome biogenesis in the nucleolus and, ultimately, larger cell size. Thus, our main conclusions do not rely on any specific mechanism underlying RP gene expression upregulation. We now include additional references supporting the relationship between RP expression bias and cell size bias. We also strengthen the link between ribosomal gene expression and biosynthetic activity by clarifying its relationship with sex-biased Myc expression and the strong correlation with expression bias of EF1. We now include additional references supporting the relationship between RP expression bias and cell size bias. We also strengthen the link between ribosomal gene expression and biosynthetic activity by clarifying its relationship with sex-biased Myc expression and the strong correlation with expression bias of EF1.

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughtful and constructive comments, which have prompted us to clarify both our reasoning and the relevant literature more fully.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      The authors analyzed the FlyAtlas single-nucleus dataset to identify sex differences in gene expression and cell numbers. This led them to focus on muscles, cardiomyocytes, and fat body cells. They then measured cell and nucleolus size across different tissues and showed that reducing Myc function decreases sex differences in fat body cells. Overall, the manuscript provides a characterization of dimorphic differences in cell and organ size across three tissues.*

      Response: This is a nice synopsis of the work.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      Major Comments: The major claims of the manuscript are well supported by the reported experiments and analyses. While Reviewer #2 considered the major claims of the manuscript to be well supported, by the reported experiments and analysesStatistical analyses appear adequate.

      Response: We agree, and we are glad that the reviewer found our work well supported.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *Minor Comments: The following minor issues should be addressed through textual edits:In the Introduction:

      "Disruptions in proportionality, whether due to undergrowth or overgrowth, can lead to reduced fitness or diseases such as cancer." Could the authors provide a reference for this statement, particularly for the claim that disruptions in proportion*

      Response: We apologize for this omission. The following explanation is now included starting at line 39:

      "For example, scaled cell growth is a driver of symmetry in Myc-dependent scaling of bone growth in the skeleton by chondrocyte proliferation (Ota et al. 2007; Zhou et al. 2011). Increased nucleolus size is a well known marker of cancer progression in a histopathological setting (Pianese 1896; Derenzini et al. 1998; Elhamamsy et al. 2022)."

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *The authors state:

      "This study offers a comprehensive, cellular-resolution analysis of sexual size dimorphism in a model organism, uncovering how differences in cell number and size contribute to sex-specific body plans."*

      The study cannot be considered comprehensive, as not all organs were examined.

      Response: Indeed, "comprehensive" is a loaded word and in the revised manuscript we just omitted it.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *The following sentence from the abstract is unclear:

      "By uncovering how a conserved developmental system produces sex-specific proportions through distinct cellular strategies..."*

      * What do the authors mean by a conserved developmental system? Do they refer to a commonly used developmental model, or to a developmental system that is evolutionarily conserved?*

      Response: We acknowledge that the use of the word 'conserved' was inappropriate, and we have therefore removed it from the statement.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *Reviewer #2 (Significance (Required)):

      The manuscript presents a relevant exploration of sex-specific differences in cell size and cell number in Drosophila males and females. The limitations of the study are clearly acknowledged in the "Limitations" section. The work does not provide mechanistic insight into the causes or functional consequences of the observed differences. Nonetheless, the study extends our understanding of sexual dimorphism and establishes a foundation for future investigations into the autonomous and systemic mechanistic factors that regulate these differences.*

      Response: Thank you.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      The manuscript by Pal and colleagues addresses an important question: the cellular mechanisms underlying sex differences in organ size. By leveraging single-nucleus transcriptomic data from the adult Drosophila Cell Atlas, the authors show that different cell types adopt distinct strategies to achieve sex differences in organ size-either by increasing cell size or by altering cell number. They then focus on three organs-the indirect flight muscles, the heart, and the fat body-and provide supporting evidence for their transcriptomic analyses.*

      Response: This is a nice summary of the study. Thank you.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      This study tackles a highly relevant and often overlooked question, as our understanding of the molecular and cellular events driving sex differences remains incomplete. The work presents interesting observations; however, it is largely descriptive, establishing correlations without providing functional evidence or mechanistic insight.

      Response: We agree that this is an often overlooked problem that has been difficult to address experimentally without single-cell genomics. Our work aims to help fill this gap. While the paper does contain descriptive elements, we believe such characterization is important at the early stages of developing a new area of inquiry. The study explores a unique dataset and includes experimental validation to support key observations. We also propose how allometry may be shaped by cell division and cell size, drawing on well-established molecular mechanisms. Thus, the reviewer's comment regarding a lack of mechanistic insight likely pertains to the absence of a direct connection to the sex-determination pathway, which is beyond the scope of the current study.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      Below are four main points that should be addressed before publication: 1. Introduction and contextualisation of prior work The introduction does not adequately present the current state of knowledge. Several key studies are missing or insufficiently discussed. In particular, the following works should be included and integrated into the introduction: - PMID: 26710087 - shows that the sex determination gene transformer regulates male-female differences in Drosophila body size. - PMID: 28064166 - describes how differences in Myc gene dosage contribute to sex differences in body size. - PMID: 26887495 - demonstrates that the intrinsic sexual identity of adult stem cells can control sex-biased organ size through sex-biased proliferation. - PMID: 28976974 - reveals that Sxl modulates body growth through both tissue-autonomous and non-autonomous mechanisms. - PMID: 39138201 - shows that transformer drives sex differences in organ size and body weight. Incorporating and discussing these references would provide a more comprehensive and up-to-date framework for the study.

      Response: We agree that the literature suggested by the reviewer strengthens the introduction and improves the contextualization of prior work relevant to our study. Although much of it was previously included in the discussion section on cell-autonomous and hormonal regulation, it has now been moved to the introduction, along with the discussion of the papers suggested by the reviewer (beginning at line 58).

      "In Drosophila melanogaster, adult females are substantially larger than males (Fig. 1A1), yet both sexes develop from genetically similar zygotes and share most organs and cell types. In wild type flies, sex is determined by the number of X chromosomes in embryos, with XX flies developing as females and X(Y) flies developing as males due to the activation and stable expression of Sex-lethal only in XX flies (Erickson and Quintero 2007). While it is not entirely clear how sexually dimorphic size is regulated, the sex determination pathway is implicated in size regulation. Sex-reversed flies often show a size based on the X chromosome number rather than sexual morphology. Female Sex-lethal contributes to larger female size independently of sexual identity (Cline 1984), and Sex-lethal expression in insulin producing neurons in the brain also impacts body size (Sawala and Gould 2017). Female-specific Transformer protein is produced as a consequence of female-specific Sex-lethal and also contributes to increased female size (Rideout et al. 2015). This size scaling also applies to individual organs. For example, the Drosophila female gut is longer than the male gut due Transformer activity (Hudry et al. 2016). It has also been suggested that Myc dose (it is X-linked) is a regulator of body size (Mathews et al. 2017), although the failed dosage compensation model proposed has not been demonstrated."

      And again at line 74:

      "These studies show that size is regulated, but they do not address whether scaling is uniform or non-uniform and the mechanism for sexual size differences (SSD). The origins of SSD can, in principle, arise from differences in (i) gene expression, (ii) the presence of sex-specific cell types, (iii) the number of cell-specific nuclei, or (iv) the size (per nucleus) of those cells. Previous research in Drosophila has largely focused on gene expression in sex-specific organs like the gonads (Arbeitman et al. 2002; Parisi et al. 2004; Graveley et al. 2011; Pal et al. 2023), which are governed by a well-characterized sex-determination pathway (Salz and Erickson 2010; Clough and Oliver 2012; Raz et al. 2023) However, whether and how scaling differences in shared, non-sex-specific tissues are achieved via changes in cell size and number remains largely unexamined (Fig. 1A2). These studies show that size is regulated, but they do not address whether scaling is uniform or non-uniform and the mechanism for size differences."

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      2. Use of ribosomal gene expression as a proxy for cell size The authors use ribosomal gene expression levels as a proxy for cell size, but this assumption is not adequately justified. The cited references (refs. 20-22) focus on unicellular organisms (bacteria and yeast) or cleavage divisions in frog embryos, which are fundamentally different from adult Drosophila tissues. The authors should provide evidence that ribosome abundance scales with cell size across the distinct adult Drosophila cell types. Given that most adult fly tissues are post-mitotic, it is more likely that ribosomal gene expression reflects protein synthesis activity rather than cell size, particularly in secretory cell types.

      Response: Reviewer 1 raised a similar point, and we agree. We recognize that the term "proxy" may have been misleading. We use this measure only in the context of sex bias within homogeneous cell clusters, and not between clusters, even when such clusters share the same cell-type annotation. To avoid overinterpretation, we changed "poxy" to "indicator".

      In response to the reviewer's concern, we have expanded our discussion of the relevant supporting literature (additional text starting line 75). We have also directly measured translation in the fat body cells (section: Female bias in ribosomal gene expression in fat body cells leads to sex biased protein synthesis), which clearly demonstrates a correlation between ribosomal protein gene expression and biosynthetic activity. Although, we have not traced the chain of events from expression to ribosome assembly to polysome loading in all cell types, we did examine the nucleolus (Figure 4), where ribosomes are assembled, and we make a strong point that the volume of the nucleolus scales like ribosome protein gene expression. This provides strong evidence for sex-specific ribosome biogenesis contributing to cell size.

      Furthermore, the observation that ribosomal gene expression likely reflects protein synthesis activity is not at odds with increased cell size: biosynthesis increases in larger cells (Schmoller and Skotheim 2015). We have added a panel to Figure 4 showing the relationship between ribosomal gene expression bias and the average expression bias of Eukaryotic Elongation Factor 1 (eEF1).

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      3. Relationship between Myc and sex-biased Rp expression The proposed link between Myc and sex-biased Rp expression is unclear. Panels D and E of Figure 1 show no consistent relationship: some cell types with strong Rp sex bias exhibit either high or low female Myc bias, or even a male bias. The linear regression in Figure 4I (R = 0.07, p = 0.59) confirms the lack of correlation. The authors should clarify this point and adopt a more cautious interpretation regarding Myc as a potential regulator of sex-biased Rp expression and cell size differences. Experimentally, using Myc hypomorph or heterozygous conditions would be more appropriate than complete knockdown to test its role.

      Response: Thank you for noting that the relationship between Myc expression bias and sex-biased RP expression required clarification. This response was prepared in consultation with Myc expert Dr. David Levens.

      We demonstrate that both Myc and RP gene expression exhibit an overall female bias in the body. The absence of a strong correlation across cell clusters does not invalidate this conclusion. Myc is a well-established master regulator of ribosome biogenesis, but its quantitative effects are complex. According to recent models of Myc-mediated gene regulation (Nie et al. 2012; Lin et al. 2012), Myc upregulates all actively transcribed genes. Because this regulation is global, the relationship between changes in Myc expression and corresponding changes in ribosomal protein gene expression depends on cell type. Moreover, (Lorenzin et al. 2016) demonstrated that ribosomal protein genes saturate at relatively low levels of Myc, which helps explain why we observe a correlation in head cell clusters-where Myc expression is lower-but not in body clusters.

      Importantly, on average, the female-specific Myc expression bias is stronger in body cell clusters than in head cell clusters, consistent with the stronger female bias in ribosomal protein gene expression observed in the head relative to the body.

      To make this relationship more transparent, we combined the head and body clusters, which yielded a strong overall correlation (Fig. 4J, replacing the previous Fig. 4H).

      To further strengthen the evidence linking ribosomal gene expression to cell size, we also examined the relationship between ribosomal gene expression bias and Elongation Factor 1 (eEF1) expression bias, a key component of protein biosynthesis during the elongation step of translation. The resulting correlation exceeds 0.9 (new Fig. 4H, added as an additional panel in Fig. 4).

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      4. Conclusions about fat body cell number I have concerns about drawing conclusions on sex differences in fat body cell number from single-nucleus transcriptomic data for two reasons:

      1- Drosophila fat body tissue is heterogeneous, comprising distinct subpopulations (e.g., visceral fat cells, subcuticular fat cells), some of which are sex-specific-such as fat cells associated with the spermathecae in females.

      Response: Thank you for giving us the opportunity to clarify our analysis of the FCA data. Our approach does account for subpopulations within the fat body as well as within other cell types. Based on gene expression profiles, we identify three fat body clusters, all of which are reported in Table S3. One small female-specific cluster (

      When all fat body clusters are combined into a single supercluster, this supercluster still shows a male bias. We have now clarified this point in the manuscript (line 113). Note that both subclusters of fat body are already shown in Fig. 1C and 1D.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      2- Adult fat body cells can be multinucleated (PMID: 13723227). Apparent sex differences in nucleus number may reflect differences in specific subpopulations or degrees of multinucleation rather than true differences in cell number. To strengthen the conclusions, the analysis should be performed at the level of fat body subpopulations, distinguishing clusters where possible. Additionally, quantifying nuclei relative to actual cell number-as done for muscle tissue-would clarify whether observed sex differences reflect true variation in cell number or differences in nuclear content per cell.

      Response: Yes, some cells can be multinucleate. We specifically address this in the context of muscle cells, where multinucleation is prominent, and we also conducted experimental validation in this tissue. As noted above, our analysis is performed at the subpopulation level, since clusters are defined by expression similarity (Leiden resolution 4.0) rather than by annotation.

      Because our work relies on single-nucleus data, each nucleus is treated as an individual unit of analysis. Nevertheless, we observe genuine nuclear differences within each cluster. Importantly, the presence of multinucleated cells does not alter our conclusions; it simply represents one form of variation in cell number that can be thought of as a subcomponent of cell/nuclei number.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      Minor corrections/points: 1-The term body size in the title does not accurately reflect the content of the paper. I recommend replacing it with organ size to better align with the study's focus.

      Response: Thank you for the suggestion.

      ----------------------------------------------------------- 2-The term sexual size dimorphism is somewhat inaccurate in this context. Sex differences in size would be more appropriate. The term sexual dimorphism typically refers to traits that exhibit two distinct forms in males and females-such as primary or secondary sexual characteristics like sex organs or sex combs. In contrast, size is a quantitative trait that follows a normal distribution. Although the average female may be larger than the average male, the distributions overlap, making the term dimorphism imprecise.

      Response: Thank you for the suggestion.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      3-In Figure 2E, there appears to be an inconsistency between the text, figure legend, and the data presented. The text and legend state that the total volume of dorsal longitudinal flight muscle cells was quantified, whereas the graph indicates measurements of nuclear size. This discrepancy should be clarified.

      Response: Thank you for pointing this out. We figured out that Y-axis label in the graph was incorrect and it is now fixed.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      4-The authors proposed: "This increased biosynthetic activity in fat body cells may contribute to cell size differences, but also to the regulation of body size via production of factors that mediate body growth via interorgan communication". Please note that this hypothesis has already been tested functionally in PMID: 39138201 and was shown to be incorrect. Sex differences in body size are completely independent of fat body sexual identity or any intrinsic sex differences within fat cells.

      __Response: __We thank the reviewer for the opportunity to discuss why the data shown in PMID 39138201 (Hérault et al. 2024) do not rule out a model in which the fat body contributes to the sex-specific regulation of body size via interorgan communication. The main reason data in Herault et al cannot rule out such a model is that they use wing size as a proxy for body size. This is in contrast to prior studies, such as (Rideout et al. 2015), in which pupal volume was used to directly measure body size and show a non-autonomous effect of sex determination gene transformer on body size. Measuring body size directly is a more precise readout of growth during the larval stages of development, as opposed to using adult wing area which reflects the growth of a single organ. It is also important to note that the diets used to rear flies in Herault and Rideout differ, which is an important consideration as females do not achieve their maximal size without high dietary protein levels (Millington et al. 2021). To ensure all these points are communicated to readers, we added text to this effect in the revised version of our manuscript.

      Added at line 254:

      "This increased biosynthetic activity in fat body cells may contribute to cell size differences, but also to the regulation of body size via production of factors that mediate body growth via interorgan communication (Colombani et al. 2003; Géminard et al. 2009; Rajan and Perrimon 2012; Sano et al. 2015; Koyama and Mirth 2016). Indeed, one study showed the sexual identity of the fat body influenced pupal volume, which is an accurate readout of larval growth (Rideout et al. 2015; Delanoue et al. 2010). While a recent study suggests that male-female differences in body size were regulated independently of fat body sexual identity (Hérault et al. 2024), this study measured the growth of a single organ, the wing, as a proxy for body size. Additional studies are therefore needed to resolve whether fat body protein synthesis plays an important role in regulating sex differences in body size."

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *5-The authors state: "This demonstrate that Myc plays a key role in regulating the sex difference in nucleolar size." This is an overstatement given the functional data presented. The claim should be toned down to reflect the limited evidence.

      **Referee cross-commenting**

      I completely agree with the main comments of Reviewer 1, as they address the paper's core.*

      Response: We have addressed the comments of Reviewer 1 in the response to reviewer's comments above.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      *Reviewer #3 (Significance (Required)):

      The main novelty and strongest aspect of this study is its use of single-nucleus transcriptomic data from the adult Drosophila Cell Atlas to investigate how different cell types adopt distinct strategies to generate sex differences in organ size-either by increasing cell size or by altering cell number. Previous studies have largely focused on specific tissues, whereas this work provides a comprehensive, organism-wide view that encompasses all tissues, enabling direct cross-comparison between organs. This represents a clear advance in the field, primarily from a technical perspective, by leveraging organism-wide single-cell transcriptomics. The main limitations lie in the lack of functional experiments and mechanistic insights. Moreover, the proposed mechanism-differences in Myc gene dosage or expression levels-is not entirely novel, as Myc dosage has previously been implicated in contributing to sex differences in body size (PMID: 28064166).*

      Response: We do have some functional testing in the 3 tissues, flight muscle, heart and fat body, however, providing mechanistic insights is beyond the scope of this paper. The paper suggested by the reviewer is an example of one attempt to provide such a mechanism, probably not the only one. We hope that our rich data that we have assembled in this paper provide resources for generating hypotheses and stimulate further research.

      -----------------------------------------------------------

      References

      Cadart, Clotilde, and Rebecca Heald. 2022. "Scaling of Biosynthesis and Metabolism with Cell Size." Molecular Biology of the Cell 33 (9): pe5. https://doi.org/10.1091/mbc.E21-12-0627.

      Diegmiller, Rocky, Caroline A. Doherty, Tomer Stern, Jasmin Imran Alsous, and Stanislav Y. Shvartsman. 2021. "Size Scaling in Collective Cell Growth." Development (Cambridge, England) 148 (18): dev199663. https://doi.org/10.1242/dev.199663.

      Gallant, Peter. 2013. "Myc Function in Drosophila." Cold Spring Harbor Perspectives in Medicine 3 (10): a014324. https://doi.org/10.1101/cshperspect.a014324.

      Grewal, Savraj S., Ling Li, Amir Orian, Robert N. Eisenman, and Bruce A. Edgar. 2005. "Myc-Dependent Regulation of Ribosomal RNA Synthesis during Drosophila Development." Nature Cell Biology 7 (3): 295-302. https://doi.org/10.1038/ncb1223.

      Hérault, Chloé, Thomas Pihl, and Bruno Hudry. 2024. "Cellular Sex throughout the Organism Underlies Somatic Sexual Differentiation." Nature Communications 15 (1): 6925. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-024-51228-6.

      Lin, Charles Y., Jakob Lovén, Peter B. Rahl, et al. 2012. "Transcriptional Amplification in Tumor Cells with Elevated C-Myc." Cell 151 (1): 56-67. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2012.08.026.

      Lorenzin, Francesca, Uwe Benary, Apoorva Baluapuri, et al. 2016. "Different Promoter Affinities Account for Specificity in MYC-Dependent Gene Regulation." eLife 5 (July): e15161. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.15161.

      Ma, Tian-Hsiang, Po-Hsiang Chen, Bertrand Chin-Ming Tan, and Szecheng J. Lo. 2018. "Size Scaling of Nucleolus in Caenorhabditis Elegans Embryos." Biomedical Journal 41 (5): 333-36. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bj.2018.07.003.

      Marygold, Steven J., John Roote, Gunter Reuter, et al. 2007. "The Ribosomal Protein Genes and Minute Loci of Drosophila Melanogaster." Genome Biology 8 (10): R216. https://doi.org/10.1186/gb-2007-8-10-r216.

      Millington, Jason W., George P. Brownrigg, Charlotte Chao, et al. 2021. "Female-Biased Upregulation of Insulin Pathway Activity Mediates the Sex Difference in Drosophila Body Size Plasticity." eLife 10 (January): e58341. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.58341.

      Nie, Zuqin, Gangqing Hu, Gang Wei, et al. 2012. "C-Myc Is a Universal Amplifier of Expressed Genes in Lymphocytes and Embryonic Stem Cells." Cell 151 (1): 68-79. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2012.08.033.

      Ponti, Donatella. 2025. "The Nucleolus: A Central Hub for Ribosome Biogenesis and Cellular Regulatory Signals." International Journal of Molecular Sciences 26 (9): 4174. https://doi.org/10.3390/ijms26094174.

      Rideout, Elizabeth J., Marcus S. Narsaiya, and Savraj S. Grewal. 2015. "The Sex Determination Gene Transformer Regulates Male-Female Differences in Drosophila Body Size." PLOS Genetics 11 (12): e1005683. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1005683.

      Schmoller, Kurt M., and Jan M. Skotheim. 2015. "The Biosynthetic Basis of Cell Size Control." Trends in Cell Biology 25 (12): 793-802. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tcb.2015.10.006.

      Schultz, J. 1929. "The Minute Reaction in the Development of DROSOPHILA MELANOGASTER." Genetics 14 (4): 366-419. https://doi.org/10.1093/genetics/14.4.366.

      Serbanescu, Diana, Nikola Ojkic, and Shiladitya Banerjee. 2022. "Cellular Resource Allocation Strategies for Cell Size and Shape Control in Bacteria." The FEBS Journal 289 (24): 7891-906. https://doi.org/10.1111/febs.16234.

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      Referee #3

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      The manuscript by Pal and colleagues addresses an important question: the cellular mechanisms underlying sex differences in organ size. By leveraging single-nucleus transcriptomic data from the adult Drosophila Cell Atlas, the authors show that different cell types adopt distinct strategies to achieve sex differences in organ size-either by increasing cell size or by altering cell number. They then focus on three organs-the indirect flight muscles, the heart, and the fat body-and provide supporting evidence for their transcriptomic analyses.

      This study tackles a highly relevant and often overlooked question, as our understanding of the molecular and cellular events driving sex differences remains incomplete. The work presents interesting observations; however, it is largely descriptive, establishing correlations without providing functional evidence or mechanistic insight.

      Below are four main points that should be addressed before publication:

      1. Introduction and contextualisation of prior work The introduction does not adequately present the current state of knowledge. Several key studies are missing or insufficiently discussed. In particular, the following works should be included and integrated into the introduction:
        • PMID: 26710087 - shows that the sex determination gene transformer regulates male-female differences in Drosophila body size.
        • PMID: 28064166 - describes how differences in Myc gene dosage contribute to sex differences in body size.
        • PMID: 2688749 - demonstrates that the intrinsic sexual identity of adult stem cells can control sex-biased organ size through sex-biased proliferation.
        • PMID: 28976974 - reveals that Sxl modulates body growth through both tissue-autonomous and non-autonomous mechanisms.
        • PMID: 39138201 - shows that transformer drives sex differences in organ size and body weight. Incorporating and discussing these references would provide a more comprehensive and up-to-date framework for the study.
      2. Use of ribosomal gene expression as a proxy for cell size The authors use ribosomal gene expression levels as a proxy for cell size, but this assumption is not adequately justified. The cited references (refs. 20-22) focus on unicellular organisms (bacteria and yeast) or cleavage divisions in frog embryos, which are fundamentally different from adult Drosophila tissues. The authors should provide evidence that ribosome abundance scales with cell size across the distinct adult Drosophila cell types. Given that most adult fly tissues are post-mitotic, it is more likely that ribosomal gene expression reflects protein synthesis activity rather than cell size, particularly in secretory cell types.
      3. Relationship between Myc and sex-biased Rp expression The proposed link between Myc and sex-biased Rp expression is unclear. Panels D and E of Figure 1 show no consistent relationship: some cell types with strong Rp sex bias exhibit either high or low female Myc bias, or even a male bias. The linear regression in Figure 4I (R = 0.07, p = 0.59) confirms the lack of correlation. The authors should clarify this point and adopt a more cautious interpretation regarding Myc as a potential regulator of sex-biased Rp expression and cell size differences. Experimentally, using Myc hypomorph or heterozygous conditions would be more appropriate than complete knockdown to test its role.
      4. Conclusions about fat body cell number I have concerns about drawing conclusions on sex differences in fat body cell number from single-nucleus transcriptomic data for two reasons:

      1) Drosophila fat body tissue is heterogeneous, comprising distinct subpopulations (e.g., visceral fat cells, subcuticular fat cells), some of which are sex-specific-such as fat cells associated with the spermathecae in females.

      2) Adult fat body cells can be multinucleated (PMID: 13723227). Apparent sex differences in nucleus number may reflect differences in specific subpopulations or degrees of multinucleation rather than true differences in cell number. To strengthen the conclusions, the analysis should be performed at the level of fat body subpopulations, distinguishing clusters where possible. Additionally, quantifying nuclei relative to actual cell number-as done for muscle tissue-would clarify whether observed sex differences reflect true variation in cell number or differences in nuclear content per cell.

      Minor corrections/points:

      1. The term body size in the title does not accurately reflect the content of the paper. I recommend replacing it with organ size to better align with the study's focus.
      2. The term sexual size dimorphism is somewhat inaccurate in this context. Sex differences in size would be more appropriate. The term sexual dimorphism typically refers to traits that exhibit two distinct forms in males and females-such as primary or secondary sexual characteristics like sex organs or sex combs. In contrast, size is a quantitative trait that follows a normal distribution. Although the average female may be larger than the average male, the distributions overlap, making the term dimorphism imprecise.
      3. In Figure 2E, there appears to be an inconsistency between the text, figure legend, and the data presented. The text and legend state that the total volume of dorsal longitudinal flight muscle cells was quantified, whereas the graph indicates measurements of nuclear size. This discrepancy should be clarified.
      4. The authors proposed: "This increased biosynthetic activity in fat body cells may contribute to cell size differences, but also to the regulation of body size via production of factors that mediate body growth via interorgan communication". Please note that this hypothesis has already been tested functionally in PMID: 39138201 and was shown to be incorrect. Sex differences in body size are completely independent of fat body sexual identity or any intrinsic sex differences within fat cells.
      5. The authors state: "This demonstrate that Myc plays a key role in regulating the sex difference in nucleolar size." This is an overstatement given the functional data presented. The claim should be toned down to reflect the limited evidence.

      Referee cross-commenting

      I completely agree with the main comments of Reviewer 1, as they address the paper's core.

      Significance

      The main novelty and strongest aspect of this study is its use of single-nucleus transcriptomic data from the adult Drosophila Cell Atlas to investigate how different cell types adopt distinct strategies to generate sex differences in organ size-either by increasing cell size or by altering cell number. Previous studies have largely focused on specific tissues, whereas this work provides a comprehensive, organism-wide view that encompasses all tissues, enabling direct cross-comparison between organs. This represents a clear advance in the field, primarily from a technical perspective, by leveraging organism-wide single-cell transcriptomics. The main limitations lie in the lack of functional experiments and mechanistic insights. Moreover, the proposed mechanism-differences in Myc gene dosage or expression levels-is not entirely novel, as Myc dosage has previously been implicated in contributing to sex differences in body size (PMID: 28064166).

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      Referee #2

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      The authors analyzed the FlyAtlas single-nucleus dataset to identify sex differences in gene expression and cell numbers. This led them to focus on muscles, cardiomyocytes, and fat body cells. They then measured cell and nucleolus size across different tissues and showed that reducing Myc function decreases sex differences in fat body cells. Overall, the manuscript provides a characterization of dimorphic differences in cell and organ size across three tissues.

      Major Comments:

      The major claims of the manuscript are well supported by the reported experiments and analyses. Statistical analyses appear adequate.

      Minor Comments:

      The following minor issues should be addressed through textual edits:In the Introduction:

      "Disruptions in proportionality, whether due to undergrowth or overgrowth, can lead to reduced fitness or diseases such as cancer."

      Could the authors provide a reference for this statement, particularly for the claim that disruptions in proportionality can lead to cancer?

      The authors state:

      "This study offers a comprehensive, cellular-resolution analysis of sexual size dimorphism in a model organism, uncovering how differences in cell number and size contribute to sex-specific body plans."

      The study cannot be considered comprehensive, as not all organs were examined.

      The following sentence from the abstract is unclear:

      "By uncovering how a conserved developmental system produces sex-specific proportions through distinct cellular strategies..."

      What do the authors mean by a conserved developmental system? Do they refer to a commonly used developmental model, or to a developmental system that is evolutionarily conserved?

      Significance

      The manuscript presents a relevant exploration of sex-specific differences in cell size and cell number in Drosophila males and females. The limitations of the study are clearly acknowledged in the "Limitations" section. The work does not provide mechanistic insight into the causes or functional consequences of the observed differences. Nonetheless, the study extends our understanding of sexual dimorphism and establishes a foundation for future investigations into the autonomous and systemic mechanistic factors that regulate these differences.

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      Referee #1

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      This paper addresses the interesting question of how cell size may scale with organ size in different tissues. The approach is to mine data from the fly single cell atlas (FCA) which despite its name is a databse of gene expression levels in single isolated nuclei. Using this data, they infer cell size based on ribosomal protein gene expression, and based on this approach infer that there are tissue and sex specific differences in scaling, some of which may be driven by differences in ribosomal protein gene expression.

      I think the idea of mining this database is a clever one, however there a number of concerns about whether the existing data can really be used to draw the conclusions that are stated.

      One concern has to do with the assumption that RP (ribosome protein) expression is a proxy for cell size. It is well established that ribosome abundance sclse with cell size, but is there reason to believe that ribosome nuclear gene EXPRESSION correlates with ribosome abundance? I'm not saying that this can't be true, but it seems like a big assumption that needs to be justified with some data. Maybe this is well known in the Drosophila literature, but in that case the relevant literature really needs to be cited.

      Second, the interpretation of RP expression as a proxy for cell size seems potentially at odds with the fact that some cells are multi-nucleate. those cells are big because of multiple nuclei, and so they might not show any increase in ribosome expression per nucleus. presumably for a multi-nucleate cells, RP expression if it reflects anythnig at all would be something to do with cell size PER nucleus.

      Third, it is well known that many tissues in Drosophila are polyploid or polytene. I don't know enough about the methodology used to produce the FCA to know whether this is somehow normalized. Otherwise, my hypothesis would be that nuclei showing higher RP expression might just be polyploid or polytene. You might say that this could be controlled by asking if all genes are similary upregulated, but that isn't the case since at least in polytene chromosomes it is well known that only a small number of genes are expressed at a given time, while many are silent.

      Overall, I think a lot more foundational work would need to be done in order to allow the inference of cell size from RP expression. In a way, it is a bit unfortunate that they chose to do this work in Drosophila where so many cells are polyploid, although I gather that even in humans some tissues have this issue, for example large neurons in the brain.

      Significance

      The idea that gene regulatory networks could "program" differences in scaling by changing levels of ribosomal protein gene expression is a tremendously important one if it can be established, because it would show a simple way for size scaling to be placed under control of developmental regulatory pathways. My original concern when I first looked at the abstract was going to be that yeah the results are interesting but a mechanism is not provided, but as I read it, that concern went away. showing that RP gene expression, which could be programmed by various driving pathways, can affect allometric scaling, would be extremely impactful and really change how we think about scaling, but putting it into the framework of gene expression networks that control other aspects of developmewnht. it would not be necessary to show which pathways actually drive these expression differences, the fact that they are different would be interesting enough to make everyone want to read this paper. But as discussed above I am not, however, convinced by the evidence presented here. So while I think it would be very significant if true, I am not convinced that the conclusion is well supported. This doesn't mean I have a reason to think it is false, just that its not well supported for the reasons I have given.

      I hasten to point out that I could be entirely wrong, if the missing bits of logic (i.e. that RP expression matches ribosome abundance and that gene expression in the FCA dataset isn't influenced by ploidy of the nucleus). If suitable references can be provided to support these underlying assumptions, then in fact I think these concerns could be answered with very little effort. Otherwise, I think experiments would be needed to support these assumptions, and that might be non-trivial to do in a reasonable time frame. for that reason, in the next question I have put "cannot tell" for the time estimate.

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study reports a valuable method to predict the capacity of a candidate probiotic bacterium to metabolically outcompete a bacterial pathogen in the ecological niche of the murine respiratory tract (niche exclusion) based on the overlap of used carbon sources in vitro. The in vivo confirmation of the in vitro/in silico predicted efficacy is, at this stage, incomplete and would require more persuasive experimental evidence for the elimination of alternative mechanisms of action.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      A summary of what the authors were trying to achieve:

      (1) Identify probiotic candidates based on the phylogenetic proximity and their presence in the lower respiratory tract based on phylogenetic analysis and on meta-analysis of 16S rRNA sequencing of mouse lung samples.

      (2) Predefine probiotic candidates with overlapping and competing metabolic profiles based on a simple and easy-to-applicable score, taking carbon source use into consideration.

      (3) Confirm the functionality of these candidate probiotics in vitro and define their mechanism of action (niche exclusion by either metabolic competition or active antibacterial strategies).

      (4) Confirm the probiotic action in vivo.

      Strengths:

      The authors attempt to go the whole 9 yards from rational choice of phylogenetic close lower respiratory tract probiotics, over in silico modelling of niche index based on use of similar carbon sources with in vitro confirmation, to in vivo competition experiments in mice.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The use of a carbon source is defined as growth to OD600 two SD above the blank level. While allowing a clear cutoff, this procedure does not take into account larger differences in the preferences of carbon sources between the pathogen and the probiotic candidate. If the pathogen is much better at taking up and processing a carbon source, the competition by the probiotic might be biologically irrelevant.

      (2) The authors do not take into account the growth of candidate probiotics in the presence of Bt. In monoculture, three of the four most potent candidate probiotics grow to comparable levels as Bt in LSM.

      (3) Niche exclusion in vivo is not shown. Mortality of hosts after infection with Bt is not a measure for competition of CP with the pathogen. Only Bt titers would prove a competitive effect. For CP17, less than half of the mice were actually colonized, but still, there is 100% protection. Activation of the host immune system would explain this and has to be excluded as an alternative reason for improved host survival.

      Appraisal:

      (1) Based on phylogenetic comparison and published resources on lower respiratory tract colonizing bacteria, the authors find a reasonably good number of candidate probiotics that grow in LSM and successfully compete with the pathogenic target bacterium Bt in vitro.

      (2) In vivo, only host survival was tested, and a direct competition of CP with Bt by testing for Bt titers was not shown.

      Impact:

      Niche exclusion based on competition for environmentally provided metabolites is not a new concept and was experimentally tested, e.g. in the intestine. The authors show here that this concept could be translated into the resource-poor environment of the respiratory tract. It remains to be tested if the LSM growth-based competition data in vitro can be translated into niche exclusion in vivo.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aims to establish a rational framework for designing bacterial probiotics against respiratory infections. The central hypothesis is that in vitro antagonism, particularly through metabolic niche overlap with a pathogen, predicts in vivo efficacy.

      Strengths:

      (1) Systematic pipeline: The study integrates bacterial isolation, in vitro characterization, model development, and in vivo validation into a cohesive workflow.

      (2) Quantitative model: The introduction of the Niche Index (NI) and Niche Index Fraction (NIF) provides a novel, quantitative tool for predicting probiotic efficacy based on ecological principles.

      (3) Mechanistic insight: The work dissects different modes of action, clearly demonstrating that inhibition can be driven by specialized metabolite production (CP8) or carbon resource competition (e.g., CP7), with lactate utilization identified as a key factor.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Limited model generalizability: The predictive power of the NI model is not universal. It fails to account for the in vivo inefficacy of CP8 (a metabolite-dependent inhibitor) and cannot explain the short-term protection conferred by some non-inhibitory CPs in vivo, suggesting unmodeled mechanisms like immune priming are at play.

      (2) Preliminary nature of key findings: The emphasis on lactate consumption as a critical predictor, while interesting, is not sufficiently explored to establish its general importance beyond the specific strains and conditions tested.

      Appraisal:

      The authors successfully achieve their aim of establishing a rational probiotic-design pipeline. The data robustly support the conclusion that metabolic niche overlap predicts efficacy for many strains, while also clearly delineating the model's limitations, as acknowledged by the authors.

      Impact:

      This work provides a valuable methodological framework for hypothesis-driven probiotic discovery. The quantitative Niche Index offers immediate utility to the field and, with further refinement, has the potential to become a fundamental tool for developing respiratory therapeutics.

    1. Support

      -> How about using 'Specialized Organization'? We are not simply supporting the Federation; we autonomously carry out our own research movement or energy movements within Hansalim movement.

    2. charitable

      I’m not sure whether the term 'charitable' is appropriate. It has a strong activist character rather than that of a charitable foundation.-> How about just 'Hansalim Foundation'?

    3. in 1985 and the Hansalim Nongsan rice store a year later.

      -> and the Hansalim Nongsan rice store in Seoul a year later ; please add the exact location, otherwise readers would be confused.

    1. .

      For the further sections of this analysis, this has no impact, since we measured the dark count at the same exposure time for each measurement in the lab or field. However, this subject should be discussed for future PandoraGO units (see section 3.2).

    Annotators

    1. Attached to Prince Zhu Di's forces in Dadu, the boy became a warrior and gradually a trusted commander.

      ows Zheng He’s rise through the military hierarchy. Being attached to Zhu Di’s forces in Dadu (modern Beijing) allowed him to gain military experience and prove his loyalty, demonstrating how competence and loyalty could elevate eunuchs in Ming society.

    2. One of the new emperor's most effective eunuch allies was a general named Zheng He. Zheng He had been castrated as a boy of ten or eleven at about the same time his father died opposing Hongwu on behalf of the Mongols on the eastern frontiers of China. Eunuchs were valued because it was believed being unable to sire children would eliminate any conflicts of loyalty.

      Introduces Zheng He as a key player in Yongle’s administration. His effectiveness was not only military but also political, as he embodied the trusted service that Yongle relied upon to secure his authority. This positions Zheng He as both a loyal servant and a symbol of the importance of eunuchs in Ming governance.

    3. As emperor, Yongle promoted the eunuchs who had been his allies and sometimes even spies in his predecessor's court.

      consolidated power by promoting trusted eunuchs who had experience in court politics. Eunuchs often acted as intermediaries, administrators, or informants because they had no family ties that could conflict with loyalty to the emperor.

    1. But I had my eyes closed. I thought I’d keep them that way for a little longer. I thought it something I ought to do.

      The narrator's sentences slowing down shows the intensity of the scene and how much this means to him. He truly has an impactful experience that opens his mind up and takes away his prejudice beliefs that he had earlier.

    2. I did it. I closed them just like he said. ‘Are they closed?’ he said. ‘Don’t fudge.’

      Starts to call Robert "he" instead of only referring to him as "the blind man."

    3. He found my hand, the hand with the pen. He closed his hand over my hand. ‘Go ahead, bub, draw,’ he said. ‘Draw. You’ll see. I’ll follow along with you. It’ll be okay. Just begin now like I’m telling you. You’ll see. Draw,’ the blind man said.

      Robert is now "in control" of the narrator or at least now they are peers, whereas in the beginning of the story the narrator believed he was better than Robert.

    4. I said, ‘The truth is, cathedrals don’t mean anything special to me. Nothing. Cathedrals. They’re something to look at on late-night TV. That’s all they are.’

      This symbolizes the message of the story - he does not see the deeper meaning and story behind the cathedrals, so he treats them as they are on the outside. Much like he does with Robert in the beginning of the story.

    5. ‘That’s all right,’ I said. Then I said, ‘I’m glad for the company.’

      The narrator appreciates Robert's company, even if he judged him previously. His likely does not have many people in his life and enjoys the times when he does.

    6. He said, ‘I do now, my dear. There’s a first time for everything. But I don’t feel anything yet.’

      Robert shows how he is open-minded and willing to try new things - contrast to the narrator who has set opinions alrwady on Robert.

    7. I thought she might have gone to bed. I wished she’d come back downstairs. I didn’t want to be left alone with a blind man.

      Treats the man as if he would be in danger because of the man, even though the man has shown no signs of harm.