43 Matching Annotations
  1. Last 7 days
    1. Joy, Bill. “Why the Future Doesn’t Need Us.” Wired, April 1, 2000. https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/.

      Annotation url: urn:x-pdf:753822a812c861180bef23232a806ec0

      Annotations: https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?user=chrisaldrich&url=urn%3Ax-pdf%3A753822a812c861180bef23232a806ec0&max=100&exactTagSearch=true&expanded=true

      Reprints available at: - Joy, Bill. “Why the Future Doesn’t Need Us.” 2000. AAAS Science and Technology Policy Yearbook 2001, edited by Albert H. Teich et al., Amer Assn for the Advancement of Science, 2002, pp. 47–75. Google Books, https://www.google.com/books/edition/Integrity_in_Scientific_Research/0X-1g8YElcsC.<br /> - Joy, Bill. “Why the Future Doesn’t Need Us.” 2000. Emerging Technologies: Ethics, Law and Governance, by Gary E. Marchant and Wendell Wallach, edited by Gary E. Marchant and Wendell Wallach, 1st ed., Routledge, 2020, pp. 65–71.

  2. Feb 2024
    1. The experiences of the atomic scientists clearly show the need to takepersonal responsibility, the danger that things will move too fast, andthe way in which a process can take on a life of its own. We can, as theydid, create insurmountable problems in almost no time flat. We mustdo more thinking up front if we are not to be similarly surprised andshocked by the consequences of our inventions.

      Bill Joy's mention that insurmountable problems can "take on a life of [their] own" is a spectacular reason for having a solid definition of what "life" is, so that we might have better means of subverting it in specific and potentially catastrophic situations.

    2. But many other people who know about the dangers still seemstrangely silent. When pressed, they trot out the “this is nothing new”riposte—as if awareness of what could happen is response enough.They tell me, There are universities filled with bioethicists who studythis stuff all day long. They say, All this has been written about before,and by experts. They complain, Your worries and your arguments arealready old hat.

      For so many issues we face the "nothing new" argument seems to abound. It's not just the bioethics issues Joy points out, but even things like fascism and Nazism.

      How to better argue these points for society so we aren't always having to re-hoe the same row?

    3. I havefound the ideas in the book Ethics for the New Millennium, by the DalaiLama, to be very helpful. As is perhaps well known but little heeded, theDalai Lama argues that the most important thing is for us to conduct ourlives with love and compassion for others, and that our societies need todevelop a stronger notion of universal responsibility and of our interde-pendency; he proposes a standard of positive ethical conduct for individ-uals and societies that seems consonant with Attali’s Fraternity utopia.The Dalai Lama further argues that we must understand what it is thatmakes people happy, and acknowledge the strong evidence that neithermaterial progress nor the pursuit of the power of knowledge is the key—that there are limits to what science and the scientific pursuit alone can do.

      Dalai Lama throwing back to a large number of indigenous cultures and societies.... contemplate reading this book...

    4. At the dawn of societies, men saw their passage on Earth as noth-ing more than a labyrinth of pain, at the end of which stood adoor leading, via their death, to the company of gods and to Eter-nity. With the Hebrews and then the Greeks, some men dared freethemselves from theological demands and dream of an ideal Citywhere Liberty would flourish. Others, noting the evolution of themarket society, understood that the liberty of some would entailthe alienation of others, and they sought Equality.

      quote pulled from Jacques Attali's book Fraternités

    5. The GNR technologies do not divide clearly into commercial andmilitary uses; given their potential in the market, it’s hard to imaginepursuing them only in national laboratories. With their widespreadcommercial pursuit, enforcing relinquishment will require a verificationregime similar to that for biological weapons, but on an unprecedentedscale. This, inevitably, will raise tensions between our individual pri-vacy and desire for proprietary information, and the need for verifica-tion to protect us all. We will undoubtedly encounter strong resistanceto this loss of privacy and freedom of action.

      While Joy looks at the Biological and Chemical Weapons Conventions as well as nuclear nonproliferation ideas, the entirety of what he's looking at is also embedded in the idea of gun control in the United States as well. We could choose better, but we actively choose against our better interests.

      What role does toxic capitalism have in pushing us towards these antithetical goals? The gun industry and gun lobby have had tremendous interest on that front. Surely ChatGPT and other LLM and AI tools will begin pushing on the profitmaking levers shortly.

    6. As Thoreau said, “We do not ride on the railroad; it rides upon us”;and this is what we must fight, in our time. The question is, indeed,Which is to be master? Will we survive our technologies?

      another variation of Thoreau on tools... source?

      It's Walden. (see: https://hypothes.is/a/b10mJsGoEe6rgteMdxbwKQ)

      Joy may have more profitably quoted the earlier Walden piece from p.41: "But lo! men have become the tools of their tools."

      There also seems to be the idea of our slow evolution into cybernetic or Borg-like beings hiding not only in Joy's argument, but in Thoreau's. If we integrate so closely with our tools, where do they stop and we end and vice versa?

      Compare this with the infamous problem of the ship of Theseus.

    7. I believe that we all wish our course could be determined by ourcollective values, ethics, and morals.

      the collective "we" here must broadly be the West, but even there our values, ethics, and morals aren't all the same. Things devolve further and more quickly beyond the cis-gendered white male perspective which Joy represents here.

    8. We have, as a bedrock value in our society, long agreed on thevalue of open access to information, and recognize the problems thatarise with attempts to restrict access to and development of knowledge.

      Many academics and modern people may think this way, but it is far from a "bedrock value".

      In many indigenous cultures knowledge was carefully sectioned and cordoned off.

      And as we know that knowledge itself is power (ipsa scientia potestas est - Francis Bacon) many people have frequently cordoned off access to information.

    9. In November 1945, three months after the atomic bombings,Oppenheimer stood firmly behind the scientific attitude, saying, “It isnot possible to be a scientist unless you believe that the knowledge ofthe world, and the power which this gives, is a thing which is of in-trinsic value to humanity, and that you are using it to help in the spreadof knowledge and are willing to take the consequences.”
    10. Among the cognoscenti of nanotechnology, this threat has becomeknown as the “gray goo problem.” Though masses of uncon-trolled replicators need not be gray or gooey, the term “gray goo”emphasizes that replicators able to obliterate life might be less in-spiring than a single species of crabgrass. They might be superiorin an evolutionary sense, but this need not make them valuable.

      quote in Bill Joy originally from the book Engines of Creation.

  3. Jan 2024
    1. It seems to me farmore likely that a robotic existence would not be like a human one inany sense that we understand, that the robots would in no sense be ourchildren, that on this path our humanity may well be lost.

      Here would be a good place to give a solid definition of humanity? What makes it special beyond the "self"?

      We are genetically very closely related to great apes and chimpanzees and less closely to dogs, cats, and even rats. Do we miss our dogicity? Or ratanity?

      What if the robot/human mix is somehow even more interesting and transcendent than humanity? His negativity doesn't leave any space for this possible eventuality.

    2. But if we are downloaded into our technology, what are the chancesthat we will thereafter be ourselves or even human?

      reminiscent of the quote:

      Life imitates art. We shape our tools and thereafter they shape us.<br /> —John M. Culkin, “A Schoolman’s Guide to Marshall McLuhan” (The Saturday Review, March 1967) (Culkin was a friend and colleague of Marshall McLuhan)<br /> (see: https://hypothes.is/a/6Znx6MiMEeu3ljcVBsKNOw)

      or the earlier version:

      But lo! men have become the tools of their tools. The man who independently plucked the fruits when he was hungry is become a farmer; and he who stood under a tree for shelter, a housekeeper.<br /> —Henry David Thoreau, Walden, p41 <br /> (see: https://hypothes.is/a/vooPrPkwEe2r_4MIb6tlFw)

    3. The physicistsStephen Wolfram and Brosl Hasslacher introduced me, in the early1980s, to chaos theory and nonlinear systems. In the 1990s, I learnedabout complex systems from conversations with Danny Hillis, the bi-ologist Stuart Kauffman, the Nobel-laureate physicist Murray Gell-Mann, and others. Most recently, Hasslacher and the electrical engineerand device physicist Mark Reed have been giving me insight into the in-credible possibilities of molecular electronics.

      some of Bill Joy's intellectual history here mirrors much of my own...

    4. After a few years at Berkeley I started to send out some of the soft-ware I had written—an instructional Pascal system, Unix utilities, anda text editor called vi (which is still, to my surprise, widely used morethan 20 years later)—to others who had similar small PDP-11 and VAXminicomputers
    5. Uncontrolledself-replication in these newer technologies runs a much greater risk: arisk of substantial damage in the physical world.

      As a case in point, the self-replication of misinformation on social media networks has become a substantial physical risk in the early 21st century causing not only swings in elections, but riots, take overs, swings in the stock market (GameStop short squeeze January 2021), and mob killings. It is incredibly difficult to create risk assessments for these sorts of future harms.

      In biology, we see major damage to a wide variety of species as the result of uncontrolled self-replication. We call it cancer.

      We also see programmed processes in biological settings including apoptosis and necrosis as means of avoiding major harms. What might these look like with respect to artificial intelligence?

    6. Moravec’s view is that the robots will eventually suc-ceed us—that humans clearly face extinction.

      Joy contends that one of Hans Moravec's views in his book Robot: Mere Machine to Transcendent Mind is that robots will push the human species into extinction in much the same way that early North American placental species eliminated the South American marsupials.

    7. The systems involvedare complex, involving interaction among and feedback between manyparts. Any changes to such a system will cascade in ways that are diffi-cult to predict; this is especially true when human actions are involved.

      Perhaps the evolution to solve AI-resistance (mentioned in https://hypothes.is/a/-JjZurr3Ee6EtG8G_Sbt8Q) won't be done at the level of the individual human genome, but will be done at the human society level genome.

      Political groups of people have an internal memetic genome which can evolve and change over time much more quickly than the individual human's genes would work.

    8. Our overuse of antibiotics has led to what may be thebiggest such problem so far: the emergence of antibiotic-resistant andmuch more dangerous bacteria. Similar things happened when attemptsto eliminate malarial mosquitoes using DDT caused them to acquireDDT resistance; malarial parasites likewise acquired multi-drug-resistant genes.

      Just as mosquitoes can "acquire" (evolve) DDT resistance or bacteria might evolve antiobiotic-resistance, might not humans evolve AI resistance? How fast might we do this? On what timeline? Will the pressure be slowly built up over time, or will the onset be so quick that extinction is the only outcome?