Odysseus has traditionally been viewed as Achilles' antithesis in the Iliad:[35] while Achilles' anger is all-consuming and of a self-destructive nature, Odysseus is frequently viewed as a man of the mean, a voice of reason, renowned for his self-restraint and diplomatic skills.

November 2023 First Friday Lecture: From Mythos to Logos

Prometheus is the creative and rebellious spirit which, rejected by God, angrily defies him and asserts itself; Ganymede is the boyish self which is adored and seduced by God. One is the lone defiant, the other the yielding acolyte. As the humanist poet, Goethe presents both identities as aspects or forms of the human condition.

Beginning in the 18th century, the relation of mythos and logos flipped into reverse. Not entirely: variants of traditional allegory persist all the way to the present. But among some thinkers – Vico, Herder, and Christian Gottlob Heyne – a different, historicist approach emerged. There were two key shifts. First, these writers claim that mythos has its own philosophical content, without being translated into logos. Second, the philosophical content of myth isn’t a universally valid, timeless logos, but is specific to the era when the myth was formulated. That is, these thinkers insisted on “the pluralization of forms of Logos” (40).

The use of use mythos to critique logos “became one of the central traditions of German philosophy since the nineteenth century.”

Throughout the centuries, the distinction always tilted in favor of logos. Reason could question myths; myths couldn’t challenge reason. Allegory was one of the main devices for rationalizing the irrational, but allegorists “never looked for traces of Mythos in their Logos, but only for traces of their Logos in the Mythos” (32). Allegorists assumed that myth-makers already grasped logos, and “cloaked the Logos in Mythos in order to protect it from the ignorant masses, or to guarantee that only a few elect would have access to it” (32). For advocates of logos, myth was merely accommodated logos. No truth can be told only in mythic terms. Truth is in reason, not in narrative. Allegorists had a problem: “even if the content of the Mythos always reveals itself in the allegorist’s hands to be nothing other than the Logos, none the less the conversion mechanisms which transform that Mythos into his Logos remain resolutely arbitrary and cannot themselves ever be successfully subsumed into the Logos” (33).

Chillingly, Nestle, writing in Stuttgart in 1940 and though no Nazi, argues that the great maturation from mythos to logos “seems to have been reserved from the Aryan peoples” (quoted p. 30).

William Nestle’s Vom Mythos zum Logos (1940) is the classical statement of this reading. On the opening page, Nestle claims mythos and logos are “the two poles between which man’s mental life oscillates. Mythic imagination and logical thought are opposites,” the former being “imagistic and involuntary,” rooted in the unconscious, while the latter is “conceptual and intentional, and analyzes and synthesizes by means of consciousness” (quoted in Glenn Most, “From Logos to Mythos,” in From Myth to Reason?, 27).

Many have summarized the intellectual history of Greece as an evolution from the mythos to logos.

From Myth to Reason

His main works, which appeared late in 1940 and 1944, are the aforementioned Vom Mythos zum Logos, die Selbstentfaltung des griechischen Denkens von Homer bis auf die Sophistik und Sokrates and Griechische Geistesgeschichte von Homer bis Lukian in ihrer Entfaltung vom mythischen zum rationalen Denken dargestellt, are the result of his Greek studies conducted over several decades.

Vom Mythos zum Logos. Die des griechischen Denkens Selbstentfaltung von Homer bis auf die Sophistik und Sokrates. (From Mythos to Logos: The Self-development of Greek Thought from Homer to the Sophistics and Socrates.) 1940. 2nd edition. 1942. Reprint. 1975, 1986.

The typewriter division of Wanderer Werke continued unencumbered, manufacturing precision typing machines such as this one, emblazoned with its striking “WW” crest (which bears a striking similarity to the Wonder Woman logo from the 1980s).

The typewriter was made in Siegmar-Schönau—a suburb of Chemnitz—by Wanderer, an early German pioneer in manufacturing bicycles, motorcycles, cars, and later military trucks and tanks for the Wehrmacht, the armed forces in the Nazi era. In the 1930s, Wanderer’s automotive division was one of four car companies consolidated into the Auto Union AG, which later became Audi. Indeed, one of the four interconnected rings on the Audi brand logo represents Wanderer.

More specifically, 12.1 percent of these young diners will get more than 40 percent of their daily calories from fast food. Another 10.7 percent will get 25 percent to 40 percent of their daily calories from a fast food restaurant.

hese questions recall some familiar rhetorical categories of composition, including writing as context, writing as style, writing as signification

Miri Forbesis a postdoctoral research fellow in psychiatry and psychology at the University of Minnesota,Nicholas Eaton is the Assistant Professor of Clinical Psychology at Stony Brook University,and Robert Kruger is the professor of psychology at the University of Minnesota. They arequalified to write and provide information through logo

Arbeit am Logos be-deutet unter diesem Aspekt, sich argumenta-tiv und rational in prägende Lebenswelter-fahrungen einzuschalten

It’s grand larceny and, as usual, what is being stolen is power.

certain and undoubted

indeliblylinguistic:dialectic.

o it is difficultfor the judges to determine justice and benefits fairly; but most important of all, because the judgment of a lawmaker is not about aparticular case but about what lies in the future and in general, whilethe assemblyman and the juror are actually judging present andspecific cases.

in so far as it proves or seems to prove.

Are we serving Shamus as well as he's serving us?

Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or do we participate in a politics of hope?

Now don’t get me wrong.  The people I meet in small towns and big cities, in diners and office parks, they don’t expect government to solve all their problems.  They know they have to work hard to get ahead and they want to.  Go into the collar counties around Chicago, and people will tell you they don’t want their tax money wasted by a welfare agency or by the Pentagon.  Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach our kids to learn.  They know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white.  They know those things.  People don’t expect government to solve all their problems.  But they sense, deep in their bones, that with just a slight change in priorities, we can make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life, and that the doors of opportunity remain open to all.  They know we can do better.  And they want that choice

we have more work to do.  More work to do for the workers I met in Galesburg, Illinois, who are losing their union jobs at the Maytag plant that’s moving to Mexico, and now are having to compete with their own children for jobs that pay seven bucks an hour.  More to do for the father that I met who was losing his job and choking back the tears, wondering how he would pay $4,500 a month for the drugs his son needs without the health benefits that he counted on.  More to do for the young woman in East St. Louis, and thousands more like her, who has the grades, has the drive, has the will, but doesn’t have the money to go to college

, Harvard Men's Health Watch

Arrangement itself is thus a form of nonlogical appeal,

Use of private prisons in the United States has coincided with the widelycited rapid growth of the number of inmates: “The population grew more than400% from less than 320,000 in 1980 to nearly 1.4 million at the end of 2002.

11.7 million Mexican-born individuals living in the United States, almost half (5.6 million) have no legal authorization

about 150,000 to 200,000 Mexicans cross the border each year heading north, and about as many head south

Logos principle

Those who are more thrifty (as I must confess the times require) mayflay the carcass; the skin of which artificially dressed* will make admirablegloves for ladies, and summer boots for fine gentlemen.

and help to pay their landlord’s rent, their corn andcattle being already seized and money a thing unknown

Infant’s flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentifulin March, and a little before and after. For we are told by a grave author,an eminent French physician [François Rabelais], that fish being a prolific

Thirdly, whereas the maintenance of an hundred thousand children,from two years old and upwards, cannot be computed at less than tenshillings a piece per annum, the nation’s stock will be thereby increasedfifty thousand pounds per annum, besides the profit of a new dish intro-duced to the tables of all gentlemen of fortune in the kingdom who haveany refinement in taste. And the money will circulate among ourselves,the goods being entirely of our own growth and manufacture.

I do therefore humbly offer it to public consideration that of the hun-dred and twenty thousand children, already computed, twenty thousandmay be reserved for breed, whereof only one fourth part to be males,which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle, or swine; and myreason is that these children are seldom the fuits of marriage, a circum-stance not much reagarded by our savages, therefore one male will besufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousandmay at a year old be offered in sale to the persons of quality and fortunethrough the kingdom, always advising the mother to let them suck plen-tifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a goodtable. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends; andwhen the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reason-able dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt will be very good boildedon the fourth day, especially in winter.

I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance inLondon, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a mostdelicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked,or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or aragout*.

and myreason is that these children are seldom the fuits of marriage, a circum-stance not much reagarded by our savages, therefore one male will besufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousandmay at a year old be offered in sale to the persons of quality and fortunethrough the kingdom, always advising the mother to let them suck plen-tifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a goodtable.

It is true, a child just dropped from its dam may be supported by hermilk for a solar year, with little other nourishment; at most not above thevalue of two shillings, which the mother may certainly get, or the value inscraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one yearold that I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead ofbeing a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting food andraiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute tothe feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousands.

unwavering reaso

And so, all you dialecticians - that is, whoever can form a judgment about this question with truth and constancy - come here, pay at-tention, sharpen your wits, drive far away from you (in case passions of this kind have been ready to seize your minds), drive far away, I say, love, hate, prejudice, levity, fickleness, and rashness

The second is how to set these facts out in language.

Thirdly, persuasion is effected through the speech itself when we have proved a truth or an apparent truth by means of the persuasive arguments suitable to the case in question.

There are, then, these three means of effecting persuasion. The man who is to be in command of them must, it is clear, be able (1) to reason logically, (2) to understand human character and goodness in their various forms, and (3) to understand the emotions-that is, to name them and describe them, to know their causes and the way in which they are excited.

it has three divisions -- (1) the speaker's power of evincing a personal character which will make his speech credible (ethos ); (2) his power of stirring the emotions of his hearers (pathos ); (3) his power of proving a truth, or an apparent truth, by means of persuasive arguments (logos ).

The truth is, as indeed we have said already, that rhetoric is a combination of the science of logic and of the ethical branch of politics; and it is partly like dialectic, partly like sophistical reasoning.

There are, then, these three means of effecting persuasion. The man who is to be in command of them must, it is clear, be able (1) to reason logically, (2) to understand human character and goodness in their various forms, and (3) to understand the emotions-that is, to name them and describe them, to know their causes and the way in which they are excited.

Of the modes of persuasion furnished by the spoken word there are three kinds. The first kind depends on the personal character of the speaker; the second on putting the audience into a certain frame of mind; the third on the proof, or apparent proof, provided by the words of the speech itself

The reason for this is that in political oratory there is less inducement to talk about nonessentials. Political oratory is less given to unscrupulous practices than forensic, because it treats of wider issues. In a political debate the man who is forming a judgement is making a decision about his own vital interests. There is no need, therefore, to prove anything except that the facts are what the supporter of a measure maintains they are. In forensic oratory this is not enough; to conciliate the listener is what pays here.

(3) his power of proving a truth, or an apparent truth, by means of persuasive arguments (logos ).

(1) the speaker's power of evincing a personal character which will make his speech credible (ethos ); (2) his power of stirring the emotions of his hearers (pathos ); (3) his power of proving a truth, or an apparent truth, by means of persuasive arguments (logos )

it must adapt itself to an audience of untrained thinkers who cannot follow a long train of reasoning.

The former kind he must provide himself; and it has three divisions -- (1) the speaker's power of evincing a personal character which will make his speech credible (ethos ); (2) his power of stirring the emotions of his hearers (pathos ); (3) his power of proving a truth, or an apparent truth, by means of persuasive arguments (logos ). Hence rhetoric may be regarded as an offshoot of dialectic, and also of ethical (or political) studies.

For, although he undertook most of his wars without support from the city, he brought them all to a successful issue, and convinced all the Hellenes that he won them justly. And what greater or clearer proof of his wise judgement could one adduce than this fact?

But you have heard also from my accuser that I have received many great presents from Nicocles, the king of the Salaminians.39 And yet, can any one of you be persuaded that Nicocles made me these presents in order that he might learn how to plead cases in court—he who dispensed justice, like a master, to others in their disputes? So, from what my accuser has himself said, it is easy for you to conclude that I have nothing to do with litigation.

You can judge this from my habits of life, from which, indeed, you can get at the truth much better than from the lips of my accusers; for no one is, I think, blind to the fact that all people are wont to spend their time in the places where they elect to gain their livelihood. And you will observe that those who live upon your contracts and the litigation connected with them are all but domiciled in the courts of law, while no one has ever seen me either at the council-board, or at the preliminaries,35 or in the courts,36 or before the arbitrators 37; on the contrary, I have kept aloof from all these more than any of my fellow-citizens

for if any man had been wronged by me, even though he might have held his tongue up till now, he would not have neglected the present opportunity, but would have come forward to denounce me or bear witness against me. For when one who has never in his life heard a single disparaging word from me has put me in so great peril, depend upon it, had any suffered injury at my hands, they would now attempt to have their revenge.

ou should remember this and not trust too hastily the assertions of the accuser nor hear the defendant in uproar and anger.19 Ours is a shameful state of inconsistency; for while it is acknowledged that in our life in general we are the most merciful20 and gentle of all the Hellenes, yet in the conduct of our trials here we manifestly give the lie to this reputation

they attempt to persuade our young men that if they will only study under them they will know what to do in life and through this knowledge will become happy and prosperous

I think all intelligent people will agree with me that while many of those who have pursued philosophy have remained in private life,(16) others, on the other hand, who have never taken lessons from any one of the sophists have become able orators and statesmen.

whereas nature herself intimates that it is just for the better to have more than the worse, the more powerful than the weaker; and in many ways she shows, among men as well as among animals, and indeed among whole cities and races, that justice consists in the superior ruling over and having more than the inferior.

For, as Euripides says, 'Every man shines in that and pursues that, and devotes the greatest portion of the day to that in which he most excels,'

And this I take to be the sentiment of Pindar, when he says in his poem, that 'Law is the king of all, of mortals as well as of immortals;' this, as he says, 'Makes might to be right,

Then why, if you call rhetoric the art which treats of discourse, and all the other arts treat of discourse, do you not call them arts of rhetoric?

And music is concerned with the composition of melodies?

For it is clear that her mother was Leda and her father was in fact the god, but said to be mortal, Tyndareus and Zeus--of whom the one, by being, seemed, while the other, by speech, was disproved--and the one was the mightiest of men while the other was tyrant over all. Born of such parentage, she had godlike beauty, which having received she not inconspicuously retained.

if one must attribute responsibility to Fortune and the god, one must acquit Helen of infamy.

Now in the first case, the responsible party deserves the responsibility. For the will of a god cannot be hindered by human forethought. For it is not natural for the superior to be hindered by the inferior, but for the inferior to be ruled and led by the superior--for the superior to lead and the inferior to follow. And a god is superior to a human being in force, intelligence, etcetera. Accordingly, if one must attribute responsibility to Fortune and the god, one must acquit Helen of infamy.