- Nov 2024
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Zettelkasten Numbering is so Damn Confusing (I Think I Can Help) by [[Zettelkasten Blah Blah Blah]]
He doesn't say it explicitly, but the Luhmann-artig zettelkasten numbers are only addresses. They don't represent hierarchies. Doing this allows a bottom up organization to emerge.
You can later create hub notes or outlines that create a "correct" or hierarchical order. This is where things become top down.
He points out that Scheper's recommendations for using the numbering for academic disciplines and putting cards in specific orders (giving them negative numbers, etc.) is a counter-productive habit with respect to Luhmann-artig practice.
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- Jan 2024
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Top down thinking is when you plan a meal, find recipes, get ingredients, and then cook the meal. You started with the result and worked your way down to what was needed to make it happen.Bottoms up is when you rifle through your cabinets and fridge to try to cobble together something edible. You start with the components and figure out what you can do.
In this example both versions have a specific goal in mind: "to diminish hunger". What does this look like when we have no specific goal in mind, but are exploring a space without purpose, but only for cause?
exploring with relationship to: ᔥ[[Bob Doto]] in What Do We Mean When We Say "Bottom-Up?"
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writing.bobdoto.computer writing.bobdoto.computer
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Top-down approaches work in the opposite direction. Instead of allowing the materials to inform the whole, a perception of what the whole should be determines which materials are allowed to be used. It's "having an overarching concept before working out the details."5
One of the more notable adopters of this approach to design and architecture was the Bauhaus in the early 20th century. See: Owen, C. (2009). "Bottom-up, Top-down." https://id.iit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Bottom-up-top-down-updown09.pdf↩
It's a question of teleology. Is there a goal or a purpose in mind? (teleology: the explanation of phenomena in terms of the purpose they serve rather than of the cause by which they arise.)
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working "bottom-up" pertains to the manner in which a sense of wholeness and coherence emerges from the information collected from the individual components that constitute or contribute to the whole.
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communicationnation.blogspot.com communicationnation.blogspot.com
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In 1941, he published "Wells, Hitler and the World State," in which he argued that Germany hewed much closer to a well-run society in which everyone thinks similarly and along scientific lines than England ever has. But it was run by a "criminal lunatic," so that didn't work out quite as Wells thought it would. Orwell also noted that patriotism, which Wells thought of as civilization-destroying, was the primary force inducing Russians and Britons to fight against Hitler.
first referent "he" is George Orwell
Example of a time in which patriotism and nationalism may have been beneficial.
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- Nov 2023
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www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
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from the buddhist point of view it's about the nature of perception and conception usually our perception of the world that is to say the life that we have through our senses what is revealed through our senses is instantly merged with our conceptualization so that interpretation which is essentially the play of our imagination it's our mental activity when it gets as it were fused into the appearance
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for: epoche, perceptual interpretation, perception - epoche, perception - bottom up sensation and top down conceptualisation, lebenswelt
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key insight
- Those is an important observation, namely that our ubiquitous, everyday act of perception, performed thousands of times a day is a near-instantaneous fusion of
- sensory information and
- conceptualising from our accumulated lebenswelt
- in third context, Husserl's epoche or phenomenological reduction is a way to give us insight into this otherwise invisible process that normative social learning deeply conditions into us.
- Indeed, one of the unique traits of our species is our individual and collective immersion into a virtual world of ideas, the symbolosphere.
- The 24/7 immersion in this world would not be possible unless we institutionalised decades of education in our stake childhood years to steep use all in at m language training that forges ideas out of intention and symbols, creating the deep associations necessary for effortless meaning-making and linguistic participation as adults
- Those is an important observation, namely that our ubiquitous, everyday act of perception, performed thousands of times a day is a near-instantaneous fusion of
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- Oct 2023
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www.researchgate.net www.researchgate.net
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We do not, however, intend to suggest thatbottom-up social change or individual actions are a sub-stitute for climate legislation or broader structural changes.Rather, we see these as complementary approaches to, orintegral parts of, broader climate action
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- top down and bottom up actions compliment and strengthen each other.
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Tags
Annotators
URL
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www.reddit.com www.reddit.com
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So I am taking notes on functional groups in organic chemistry. Would each functional group be its own note, ie. 47~Alkenes, or would each functional group fall under my parent note "35~Functional groups", and be 35a~Alkenes for example.I think the latter makes more sense, but I am also no zettel expert
reply to u/6_squids at https://www.reddit.com/r/Zettelkasten/comments/178nr6j/simple_problem/
Functional groups are certainly a top down categorization of these structures that some have found useful over time. But what if you wrote about them in other ways from a bottom up perspective? Perhaps you might discover other useful and intriguing ways of categorizing them? While your textbook is trying to present an organized method, you might find some interesting insight by looking at them in other ways. Be willing to play around and experiment—not coincidentally, this is what a good organic chemist should be trained to do.
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- Sep 2023
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www.reddit.com www.reddit.com
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Is the idea that you force yourself to find the link between a new idea and the existing cards? I didn't understand it that way.Example of the 4 cards I have nowone how there's a continuum between music that's easy digestable for the listener, where the creator does a lot of effort, and music that asks a lot from the listener, because the creator makes idiosyncratic music.the concept of "false consensus" in psychologylinked with that: "naive realism"one about (marching band) parades, how in some cultures/for some people it's more about choosing to enjoy and dance then about the musicians who are responsible for that. (I see a link with the first, but that's not what interests me in this one)
reply to u/JonasanOniem at https://www.reddit.com/r/Zettelkasten/comments/16ss0yu/comment/k2buxsc/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
In digital contexts it is much easier and very common to create orphaned notes that aren't connected to anything. In a paper zettelkasten, you are forced to file your note somewhere and give it a number (only to be able to find it again—it's difficult, but try not to make the mistake of conflating your number with the idea of category). The physical act of placing it in your slipbox creates an implicit link to the things around it. As a result, your four notes would all initially seem to be directly related because they're nearby, but over time, they will naturally drift apart as you intersperse new notes between and among them. Though if they're truly directly interrelated, you can write down explicit links from notes at one end of your thought space to notes which seem distant.
In your example, you may see some sort of loose link between your first and fourth notes relating to music. While it may be a distant one, given what you have, putting marching band "next to" digestible music is really the only place to put it. Over time, you'll certainly find other notes that come between them which will tend to split them apart and separate them by physical distance, but for now, if it's what you've got, then place them into the same neighborhood by giving them addresses (numbers) to suggest they live nearby. (Some note applications like Obsidian make this much harder to do, and as a result orphaned notes will eventually become a problem.)
This physical process is part of the ultimate value of building knowledge from the bottom up. Like most people, you've probably been heavily trained to want to create a hierarchy from the top down (folder-based systems on computers of the late 20th century are a big factor here) which is exactly why you're going to have problems like this at the start. You'll want to place that music note somewhere else, or worse, orphan it. For some people who may not be able to immediately trust the process, it can be easier to create a few dozen or a hundred notes and then come back to them later to file and arrange them. This will allow you to seed some ground from which to continually build and help to bridge the gap between the desire to move top-down in a system designed to move from bottom-up.
Depending on one's zettelkasten application (Obsidian, Zettlr, Logseq, The Archive, et al.) some do a better job of allowing the creation of "soft links" versus the more explicit hard or direct links (usually using [[WikiLinks]]). The soft links are usually best done by providing a number that places one note into proximity with another, but not all systems work this way. As a result, it's much easier to build a traditional commonplace book with Obsidian than it is to build a Luhmann-artig zettelkasten (see: https://boffosocko.com/2022/10/22/the-two-definitions-of-zettelkasten/). The concept of tags/categories in many systems is another form of soft link that can hold ideas together, so use this affordance if your application offers it as well. But also keep in mind that if sociology is your life's work, you'll eventually amass such a huge number of digital notes tagged with "sociology" that this affordance will become useless as it won't scale well for discovery and creating links.
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bobdoto.computer bobdoto.computer
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Whether or not a note maker increases their knowledge "sufficiently" at the time of import or at the time of writing longer works, is a moot point. So long as it happens.
"So long as it happens." And here lies the rub: when will you put in the work to make the note useful and actionable? Will it be now or later?
Some notes are certainly more mission critical than others. Some work towards one's life's work while others are tidbits which may be useful at a later time. Distinguishing along this spectrum isn't always easy, particular in build a bottom up view of one's research.
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docdrop.org docdrop.org
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I engage with the World Economic Forum, I engage with CEOs around the world, because I think they are keystone actors, that you just have to – between us – bend them to... Because they are simply sitting on so much finance and cash and emission representation.
- for: leverage points - top-down actors
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- they are top-down leverage points
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we have been happy to engage with CEOs, with the senior policy makers, with the 'Davos set'. We've been happy to engage with them – across, generally, the sort of more senior climate change academics. But they haven't delivered for 30 years. But what we haven't... Who we very seldom engage with – the balance, to me, is wrong – with citizenry groups. We haven't engaged... with the climate parliament group. So we haven't lent... 00:58:06 Our support has been biased towards a group who are very much in favor of the status quo.
- for: quote, quote - Kevin Anderson, quote - academic support for bottom-up actors, bottom-up actors - academic support
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quote
- We have been happy to engage with CEOs, with the senior policy makers, with the 'Davos set'.
- We've been happy to engage with them – across, generally, the sort of more senior climate change academics. But they haven't delivered for 30 years.
- But what we haven't... Who we very seldom engage with – the balance, to me, is wrong – with citizenry groups.
- We haven't engaged... with the climate parliament group. Our support has been biased towards a group who are very much in favor of the status quo.
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comment
- Kevin is tuning into a potential idling capacity and leverage point that academic community has by-and-large missed.
- Academic support of bottom-up and citizen groups could yield the kind of top-down and bottom-up partnership that could really accelerate climate policy action
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as you know, in Sweden right now, we're actually backpedalling on climate policy, rather than going forward. Which is really worrying. And this is, of course, the dilemma with politics. That as soon as you get a stress factor over here – 00:55:33 a war in Ukraine, inflation, recession, energy prices going up, food prices going up – then suddenly, you cannot handle two crises at the same time.
- for: top-down and bottom-up partnerships, top-down and bottom-up climate action
- comment
- as the polycrisis accelerates, this is only going to get worse so we have to find a new, nonlinear way for politicians to actually work in partnership with bottom-up actors
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in Sweden, the Swedish parliament, which is completely set up by citizens – set up by citizens for citizens. They've produced a fantastic report. Detailed, rich report from citizens about how you could deliver budgets that are... from colleagues' and myself work on this, would say are broadly in line with somewhere between 1.5 and 2 [°C].
- for: Swedish climate report, cidtizen action, bottom-up climate action, top-down and bottom-up partnership
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future research
- study the Swedish parliament climate policy model and citizen's roles in achieving it and see if it can be replicated in all countries
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question
- is there anyone studying this with the object of scaling to other countries?
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I hope anyway, it is a hope – that there will be some sort of partnership between bottom-up and top-down that will provide guidance to leaders to put the right things in place.
- for: quote, quote - Kevin Anderson, quote - bottom-up and top-down partnership, IPCC AR6 WGIII demand side reduction and bottom-up actions
- quote
- I hope that there will be some sort of partnership between bottom-up and top-down that will provide guidance to leaders to put the right things in place.
- author: Kevin Anderson
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date: Sept., 2023
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comment
- The last IPCC report, AR6, WGIII described the important role that bottom-up, societal actors can play
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if we just make this a big, big, you know, parliament for every citizen in the world, which would be wonderful of course, you know, you wouldn't make much progress. 00:50:06 [KEVIN] No I certainly don't think that it's going to be driven by bottom-up. But I don't think top-down will do it unless it's dragged kicking and screaming by small... it will be small, catalytic, vociferous groups that are bottom-up
- for: bottom-up action, top-down and bottom-up, TPF
- comment
- Kevin Anderson makes a good point. He agrees with Johan that a parliament of 8 billion people is not realistic. However, small vociferous and strategic bottom-up groups are needed to prod the top-down actors into action.
- He makes the observation that the elite actors, the so called "Davos set" have effectively delayed any real climate action for the past 3 decades and if left to them alone, will do the same thing.
- Anderson hopes for some kind of partnership between top-down and bottom-up actors to provide guidance to leaders to choose the most appropriate policy.
- In fact, the last IPCC report actually reports on the important role of bottom-up action from societal actors
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we have a crisis 00:49:16 And things have to change at the global level so fast that we need to correct big system failures at a very large scale. And I'm convinced that that can only be done top-down not bottom-up.
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for: Johan Rockstrom - top down strategy, quote, quote - Johan Rockstrom, quote - climate top down strategy
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quote
- we have a crisis and things have to change at the global level so fast that we need to correct big system failures at a very large scale. And I'm convinced that that can only be done top-down not bottom-up.
- author: Johan Rockstrom
- date: Sept., 2023
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Tags
- bottom-up action
- bottom-up actors - academic support
- quote - top-down and bottom-up partnership
- top-down and bottom-up
- quote - top down climate strategy
- quote - Johan Rockstrom
- quote - academic support for bottom-up actors
- quote - Kevin Anderson
- top down climate strategy
- leverage points - top-down actors
- Swedish climate report
- IPCC AR6 WGIII - demand side reduction and bottom-up actions
- TPF
- top-down and bottom-up partnership
- quote
- bottom-up climate action
- top-down and bottom-up climate action
Annotators
URL
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- Aug 2023
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www.lesswrong.com www.lesswrong.com
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Ideally, the tree would perfectly reflect some kind of conceptual hierarchy; but in practice, card 11c might turn out to be the primary thing, with card 11 just serving as a historical record of what seeded the idea.
The numbering doesn't matter! (especially as much as people may want it to)
Zettelkasten grow their hierarchies from the bottom-up rather than from the top-down. It's easy to create a hierarchy from the top-down when you know the entire space to begin with, but when you're just exploring and discovering the space, this is impossible, but is build-able if one doesn't get too caught up in perfection from the start.
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- Dec 2022
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www.sicpers.info www.sicpers.info
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you should use this idea to guide your app’s architecture and your class design too. Start from the problem, then work through solving that problem to building your application.
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- Nov 2022
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theinformed.life theinformed.life
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All research… All significant research is, in some respects, bottom-up. There is no alternative. And so, the only research that you can do top-down entirely is research for which you already have the solution.
Research, by design, is a bottom-up process.
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- Oct 2022
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www.reddit.com www.reddit.com
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Underlining Keyterms and Index Bloat .t3_y1akec._2FCtq-QzlfuN-SwVMUZMM3 { --postTitle-VisitedLinkColor: #9b9b9b; --postTitleLink-VisitedLinkColor: #9b9b9b; --postBodyLink-VisitedLinkColor: #989898; }
Hello u/sscheper,
Let me start by thanking you for introducing me to Zettelkasten. I have been writing notes for a week now and it's great that I'm able to retain more info and relate pieces of knowledge better through this method.
I recently came to notice that there is redundancy in my index entries.
I have two entries for Number Line. I have two branches in my Math category that deals with arithmetic, and so far I have "Addition" and "Subtraction". In those two branches I talk about visualizing ways of doing that, and both of those make use of and underline the term Number Line. So now the two entries in my index are "Number Line (Under Addition)" and "Number Line (Under Subtraction)". In those notes I elaborate how exactly each operation is done on a number line and the insights that can be derived from it. If this continues, I will have Number Line entries for "Multiplication" and "Division". I will also have to point to these entries if I want to link a main note for "Number Line".
Is this alright? Am I underlining appropriately? When do I not underline keyterms? I know that I do these to increase my chances of relating to those notes when I get to reach the concept of Number Lines as I go through the index but I feel like I'm overdoing it, and it's probably bloating it.
I get "Communication (under Info. Theory): '4212/1'" in the beginning because that is one aspect of Communication itself. But for something like the number line, it's very closely associated with arithmetic operations, and maybe I need to rethink how I populate my index.
Presuming, since you're here, that you're creating a more Luhmann-esque inspired zettelkasten as opposed to the commonplace book (and usually more heavily indexed) inspired version, here are some things to think about:<br /> - Aren't your various versions of number line card behind each other or at least very near each other within your system to begin with? (And if not, why not?) If they are, then you can get away with indexing only one and know that the others will automatically be nearby in the tree. <br /> - Rather than indexing each, why not cross-index the cards themselves (if they happen to be far away from each other) so that the link to Number Line (Subtraction) appears on Number Line (Addition) and vice-versa? As long as you can find one, you'll be able to find them all, if necessary.
If you look at Luhmann's online example index, you'll see that each index term only has one or two cross references, in part because future/new ideas close to the first one will naturally be installed close to the first instance. You won't find thousands of index entries in his system for things like "sociology" or "systems theory" because there would be so many that the index term would be useless. Instead, over time, he built huge blocks of cards on these topics and was thus able to focus more on the narrow/niche topics, which is usually where you're going to be doing most of your direct (and interesting) work.
Your case sounds, and I see it with many, is that your thinking process is going from the bottom up, but that you're attempting to wedge it into a top down process and create an artificial hierarchy based on it. Resist this urge. Approaching things after-the-fact, we might place information theory as a sub-category of mathematics with overlaps in physics, engineering, computer science, and even the humanities in areas like sociology, psychology, and anthropology, but where you put your work on it may depend on your approach. If you're a physicist, you'll center it within your physics work and then branch out from there. You'd then have some of the psychology related parts of information theory and communications branching off of your physics work, but who cares if it's there and not in a dramatically separate section with the top level labeled humanities? It's all interdisciplinary anyway, so don't worry and place things closest in your system to where you think they fit for you and your work. If you had five different people studying information theory who were respectively a physicist, a mathematician, a computer scientist, an engineer, and an anthropologist, they could ostensibly have all the same material on their cards, but the branching structures and locations of them all would be dramatically different and unique, if nothing else based on the time ordered way in which they came across all the distinct pieces. This is fine. You're building this for yourself, not for a mass public that will be using the Dewey Decimal System to track it all down—researchers and librarians can do that on behalf of your estate. (Of course, if you're a musician, it bears noting that you'd be totally fine building your information theory section within the area of "bands" as a subsection on "The Bandwagon". 😁)
If you overthink things and attempt to keep them too separate in their own prefigured categorical bins, you might, for example, have "chocolate" filed historically under the Olmec and might have "peanut butter" filed with Marcellus Gilmore Edson under chemistry or pharmacy. If you're a professional pastry chef this could be devastating as it will be much harder for the true "foodie" in your zettelkasten to creatively and more serendipitously link the two together to make peanut butter cups, something which may have otherwise fallen out much more quickly and easily if you'd taken a multi-disciplinary (bottom up) and certainly more natural approach to begin with. (Apologies for the length and potential overreach on your context here, but my two line response expanded because of other lines of thought I've been working on, and it was just easier for me to continue on writing while I had the "muse". Rather than edit it back down, I'll leave it as it may be of potential use to others coming with no context at all. In other words, consider most of this response a selfish one for me and my own slip box than as responsive to the OP.)
Tags
- Niklas Luhmann's index
- bottom-up vs. top-down
- multi-disciplinary research
- Universal Decimal Classification
- The Bandwagon
- information theory
- Dewey Decimal System
- Niklas Luhmann's zettelkasten
- hierarchies
- indices
- commonplace books vs. zettelkasten
- examples
- zettelkasten
- reply
- Claude Shannon
Annotators
URL
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- Aug 2022
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ganelson.github.io ganelson.github.io
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:
Notice with the line about Tom and Huck being boys, the bottom-up description sounds unnatural.
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www.cs.virginia.edu www.cs.virginia.edu
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Since the original Pascal was implemented with a one-pass compiler, the language believes strongly in declaration before use. In particular, procedures and functions must be declared (body and all) before they are used. The result is that a typical Pascal program reads from the bottom up - all the procedures and functions are displayed before any of the code that calls them, at all levels. This is essentially opposite to the order in which the functions are designed and used.
Worth noting that almost every C program is impaired by a similar limitation in the C language (despite the disclaimer that follows this passage about the use of the preproccessor), and many programmers' thought processes suffer because of it—no consideration for the presentability of code (even when not in languages that are affected by this limitation!)
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- Jun 2022
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multilateral cooperation is key to accelerate such action that new and additional voices need to be heard and engaged with especially 00:10:11 those of youth women indigenous groups and local communities the need to centre action on the principles of reaching out to the furthest first and leaving no one behind something like gandhian talisman
There is a need to integrate top down, middle and bottom up actors into a grand synthesis to achieve the greatest efficacy in a Marshall plan.
The community is the building block of society. Community action is still an idling capacity, an untapped resource. There is a natural synergy between communities and youth, and the bridge is schools.
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- Mar 2022
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www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
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“Twitch’s leadership is uncomfortable with mid-level and lower level employees pushing for change,”
Please name one larger tech company where questioning leadership is encouraged.
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- Jan 2022
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Bakker, B. N., & Lelkes, Y. (2022). The Structure, Prevalence, and Nature of Mass Belief Systems. PsyArXiv. https://doi.org/10.31234/osf.io/v3dg9
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- Oct 2021
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One major problem with top-down hierarchies is that they contain concentrated points of failure, since individuals are subject to bias and have limited bandwidth. The interests of the powerful few are often misaligned with those of the less powerful many, leaving the decision-makers frequently incentivized to act against the common good.
An emergent property of top down hierarchies.
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- Apr 2021
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360learning.com 360learning.com
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But decentralized learning goes farther than that: in a decentralized, Collaborative Learning environment, each team member participates in the learning process. They can identify their learning needs, request courses, give feedback on existing courses, and create courses themselves. We call this a bottom-up approach
- push vs pull for learning - create an environment that enables learning to happen, and let the people doing the work surface what they need to learn, and then help facilitate and amplify that process
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- Mar 2020
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www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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The truth is that building an innovative organization from top-down is a dynamic process. It often involves people at all levels of the company. But, the fundamental narrative across the board with innovative organizations is the culture. The company culture has to include employees who feel connected to the organization and want to contribute value.
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