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  1. Jan 2026
    1. clover

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “clover” literally means

      Clover is a noun referring to a group of low-growing flowering plants in the genus Trifolium (pea/legume family). They are common in lawns, meadows, and fields.

      In simple terms: clover = a small plant with three-part leaves and round flower heads


      2) Key identifying features

      • Leaves: Usually three leaflets (the name Trifolium means “three leaves”)
      • Flowers: Small flowers packed into round or oval heads (white, pink, or red)
      • Growth habit: Low, spreading; often forms patches
      • Family: Legumes (related to peas and beans)

      Note: A four-leaf clover is rare and traditionally considered lucky.


      3) Pollination and reproduction

      Clover is mainly insect-pollinated:

      • Attracts bees and other insects
      • Produces nectar
      • Has sticky pollen suited to insect transfer

      This makes clover important for pollinator health.


      4) Ecological importance (very common in science texts)

      Clover plays several key roles:

      • Nitrogen fixation: Special bacteria in its roots convert nitrogen from the air into a form plants can use → improves soil fertility
      • Food source: Eaten by insects, livestock, and some wildlife
      • Ground cover: Helps prevent soil erosion

      5) Common types of clover

      • White clover (very common in lawns)
      • Red clover (taller, common in fields and meadows)
      • Crimson clover (often used as a cover crop)

      6) How the word might be used if it appears alone

      If you see “clover” by itself, it usually functions as:

      • a plant name or example of insect-pollinated wildflowers,
      • a label under a picture,
      • a vocabulary word in ecology/agriculture,
      • or part of a list (e.g., grasses, clover, asters).

      7) Pronunciation

      • clover /ˈkloʊ.vɚ/ Sounds like KLOH-ver.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“clover”的基本意思

      clover三叶草,是一类 低矮的开花植物,属于 豆科(Trifolium 属),在草地和草坪中非常常见。

      简单说: clover = 三叶草


      2)主要特征

      • 叶片: 通常由 三片小叶 组成
      • 花序: 小花聚成 圆形或椭圆形花球(白、粉、红色)
      • 生长方式: 匍匐生长,容易成片
      • 分类: 豆科植物

      四叶草 属于基因突变,较罕见,常被视为幸运象征。


      3)授粉方式

      三叶草主要是 虫媒花

      • 吸引 蜜蜂 等昆虫
      • 花蜜
      • 花粉 黏性强,适合昆虫传播

      4)生态与农业价值(考试常考)

      • 固氮作用:根瘤菌把空气中的氮转化为植物可用形式,提高土壤肥力
      • 食物来源:为昆虫、牲畜提供食物
      • 保持水土:作为地被植物,减少水土流失

      5)常见三叶草种类

      • 白三叶草(草坪常见)
      • 红三叶草(草地、牧草)
      • 深红三叶草(常作绿肥)

      6)单独出现 “clover” 的含义

      如果只看到 clover,通常表示:

      • 植物名称
      • 虫媒授粉野花的例子
      • 图片说明或词汇表条目

      7)发音

      • clover /ˈkloʊ.vər/ 中文可近似理解为:“克洛沃”

      If you want, paste the 完整句子或课文段落(如 Science 10 的授粉或生态系统内容),我可以帮你 逐词拆解并标出考点(中英对照)。

    2. goldenrod

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “goldenrod” literally means

      Goldenrod is a noun referring to a group of wildflower plants in the genus Solidago. They are named for their bright golden-yellow flowers arranged in clusters on tall stems.

      In simple terms: goldenrod = tall yellow wildflowers commonly seen in late summer and fall


      2) Key characteristics of goldenrod

      • Flowers: Many small yellow flower heads grouped into plume-like or arching clusters
      • Height: Often tall and upright (from knee-high to over a meter)
      • Blooming season: Late summer to autumn
      • Habitat: Meadows, grasslands, roadsides, forest edges

      3) Pollination (important concept)

      Goldenrod is insect-pollinated, not wind-pollinated.

      • Attracts bees, butterflies, flies, and other insects
      • Produces nectar and pollen
      • One of the most important late-season food sources for pollinators

      ⚠️ Common misconception: Goldenrod does NOT cause hay fever.

      • Its pollen is heavy and sticky, so it does not travel far in the air.
      • Ragweed (a wind-pollinated plant) is the real cause of most fall allergies.

      4) Goldenrod in ecosystems (Science 10 relevance)

      Goldenrod:

      • Supports pollinator populations
      • Increases biodiversity
      • Is a classic example of an insect-pollinated wildflower
      • Often appears alongside asters in late-season meadows

      5) How the word is used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “goldenrod”, it usually functions as:

      • a plant name / species example,
      • an example of insect-pollinated wildflowers,
      • a label or caption under an image,
      • a vocabulary term in ecology or biology.

      6) Pronunciation

      • goldenrod /ˈɡoʊl.dən.rɑːd/ Sounds like: GOHL-dən-rod

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“goldenrod”的基本意思

      goldenrod一枝黄花,是一类常见的 野生开花植物,学名属 Solidago

      名字直译为“金色的枝条”,形容它 金黄色的花序

      简单说: goldenrod = 一枝黄花,秋季常见的黄色野花


      2)主要特征

      • 花朵: 许多小黄花组成穗状或羽状花序
      • 植株: 茎直立,通常较高
      • 花期: 夏末到 秋季
      • 生境: 草地、林缘、路边

      3)授粉方式(常考点)

      一枝黄花是 虫媒花

      • 吸引 蜜蜂、蝴蝶等昆虫
      • 花粉 黏重,不随风飘散

      ⚠️ 常见误区: 一枝黄花不是导致花粉过敏的元凶。 真正引起秋季过敏的多是 豚草(ragweed),因为它是 风媒花


      4)生态系统中的作用

      • 为传粉昆虫提供 重要秋季食物
      • 提高野花群落的 物种多样性
      • 常与 紫菀(asters) 一起出现,作为秋季野花代表

      5)单独出现 “goldenrod” 的含义

      如果只看到 goldenrod,通常表示:

      • 植物名称
      • 虫媒授粉野花的例子
      • 图片或图表说明
      • 生态学词汇

      6)发音

      • goldenrod /ˈɡoʊldənrɑːd/ 中文可近似读作:“戈登罗德”

      If you want, you can paste the 完整句子或课文段落(例如 Science 10 关于授粉或生态系统的内容),我可以帮你 逐句拆解 + 标出考点(中英对照)。

    3. asters

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “asters” literally means

      Asters is the plural noun of aster. It refers to a group of wildflower plants in the daisy family (Asteraceae), known for their star-shaped flowers.

      The word aster comes from Greek, meaning “star”, describing the flower’s shape.

      In simple terms: asters = star-shaped wildflowers, often blooming in late summer and fall


      2) Key characteristics of asters

      • Flower shape: Looks like a single flower but is actually a composite flower head

      • Disk florets in the center

      • Ray florets (petal-like) around the edge
      • Colors: Purple, blue, pink, white (yellow center is common)
      • Blooming season: Late summer to autumn
      • Habitat: Meadows, grasslands, forest edges, roadsides

      3) Asters and pollination

      Asters are typically insect-pollinated:

      • Attract bees, butterflies, and other insects
      • Produce nectar and pollen
      • Important late-season food sources for pollinators

      This makes asters ecologically important in temperate ecosystems.


      4) Asters in ecosystems (Science 10 relevance)

      Asters:

      • Support pollinator populations
      • Contribute to biodiversity
      • Are part of wildflower communities
      • Often appear in discussions of wind- vs. insect-pollinated plants (asters = insect-pollinated)

      5) How the word is used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “asters”, it usually functions as:

      • a plant category name,
      • an example of insect-pollinated wildflowers,
      • a label or caption under an image,
      • a vocabulary term in a science or ecology text.

      6) Pronunciation

      • aster /ˈæs.tɚ/
      • asters /ˈæs.tɚz/ Sounds like “ASS-ter(s)”.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“asters”的基本意思

      astersaster(紫菀) 的复数形式,指一类 野生开花植物,属于 菊科

      “aster” 一词源自希腊语,意思是 “星星”,形容花朵呈放射状。

      简单说: asters = 紫菀类野花,花形像星星


      2)紫菀的主要特征

      • 复合花序:看起来像一朵花,实际上由很多小花组成

      • 中央是 管状花

      • 周围是 舌状花
      • 颜色:紫、蓝、粉、白色居多
      • 花期:夏末到 秋季
      • 生境:草地、林缘、路旁

      3)紫菀与授粉

      紫菀属于 虫媒花

      • 吸引 蜜蜂、蝴蝶等昆虫
      • 提供 花蜜和花粉
      • 是秋季重要的 传粉植物

      4)生态系统中的作用(考试点)

      • 支持传粉昆虫
      • 增加植物多样性
      • 野花群落 的组成部分
      • 常作为 虫媒授粉植物 的例子

      5)单独出现 “asters” 的含义

      如果只看到 asters,通常表示:

      • 植物名称 / 分类名称
      • 野花举例
      • 图片说明
      • 科学词汇

      6)发音

      • asters /ˈæs.tɚz/ 中文可近似读作:“阿斯特兹”

      If you want, you can paste the 完整句子或课文段落(例如 Science 10 的野花或授粉内容),我可以帮你 逐词拆解 + 标注考点(中英对照)。

    4. wind- and insect-pollinated wildflowers

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “wind- and insect-pollinated wildflowers” means

      This phrase describes wildflowers (naturally growing flowering plants) that are pollinated in two different ways:

      • Wind-pollinated → pollen is carried by air currents
      • Insect-pollinated → pollen is carried by insects (bees, butterflies, flies, beetles)

      So, the phrase groups wildflowers by their pollination method.

      In simple terms: wind- and insect-pollinated wildflowers = wildflowers that rely on wind or insects to transfer pollen


      2) What pollination is (key concept)

      Pollination is the transfer of pollen from the male parts of a flower (anthers) to the female parts (stigma). This process is necessary for:

      • fertilization
      • seed production
      • plant reproduction

      3) Wind-pollinated wildflowers (features)

      Wind-pollinated plants do not rely on animals, so they usually have:

      • Small, dull, or no petals
      • No scent
      • No nectar
      • Large amounts of lightweight pollen
      • Long, exposed stamens to release pollen easily

      Examples (general): grasses, some meadow plants.

      👉 Strategy: quantity over attraction — release lots of pollen and let the wind do the work.


      4) Insect-pollinated wildflowers (features)

      Insect-pollinated plants attract insects, so they usually have:

      • Brightly colored petals
      • Strong scent
      • Nectar as a reward
      • Sticky or heavy pollen that clings to insects
      • Specific shapes that guide insects to pollen

      Examples: daisies, lupines, buttercups.

      👉 Strategy: attraction and precision — fewer pollen grains, but targeted delivery.


      5) Key comparison (exam-friendly)

      | Feature | Wind-pollinated | Insect-pollinated | | ---------- | --------------- | ----------------- | | Petals | Small / dull | Bright / showy | | Scent | None | Often strong | | Nectar | None | Present | | Pollen | Light, abundant | Sticky, heavier | | Efficiency | Low precision | High precision |


      6) Why this phrase is used in science texts

      When you see “wind- and insect-pollinated wildflowers”, the text is usually:

      • comparing pollination strategies,
      • explaining plant adaptations,
      • describing biodiversity in ecosystems, or
      • linking plant reproduction to environmental factors (wind, insects).

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“wind- and insect-pollinated wildflowers”的基本意思

      这个短语指的是 野生开花植物(野花),它们通过 两种方式之一 完成授粉:

      • 风媒授粉(wind-pollinated):靠风传播花粉
      • 虫媒授粉(insect-pollinated):靠昆虫传播花粉

      简单说: 风媒和虫媒授粉的野花


      2)什么是授粉(核心概念)

      授粉 是指 花粉从雄蕊传到雌蕊 的过程,是植物:

      • 受精
      • 结籽
      • 繁殖 的必要步骤。

      3)风媒野花的典型特征

      风媒植物通常具有:

      • 花小、不显眼
      • 无香味
      • 无花蜜
      • 花粉多而轻
      • 花药外露,利于散播

      👉 依赖自然风力,而不是动物。


      4)虫媒野花的典型特征

      虫媒植物通常具有:

      • 鲜艳的花瓣
      • 香味
      • 花蜜
      • 黏性花粉,容易附着在昆虫身上
      • 特殊花形,引导昆虫取蜜

      👉 依靠昆虫的“精准投递”。


      5)对比总结(考试常用)

      | 特征 | 风媒花 | 虫媒花 | | ---- | ----- | ---- | | 花瓣 | 小、不显眼 | 鲜艳 | | 气味 | 无 | 有 | | 花蜜 | 无 | 有 | | 花粉 | 多、轻 | 少、黏 | | 授粉方式 | 随机 | 高效精准 |


      6)为什么课本要用这个短语

      看到 “wind- and insect-pollinated wildflowers”,通常是在:

      • 植物适应性
      • 比较 授粉机制
      • 描述 生态系统多样性
      • 连接植物与 昆虫、环境因素

      If you want, paste the 完整句子或课文段落(例如 Science 10 生态系统或阅读理解),我可以帮你 逐句拆解 + 标出考点(中英对照)。

    5. sticky

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “sticky” literally means

      Sticky is an adjective describing something that clings, adheres, or sticks to other things when touched. It usually involves a tacky or glue-like surface.

      In simple terms: sticky = able to stick to things


      2) Common physical qualities

      Something described as sticky often has one or more of these features:

      • Adhesive (things attach easily)
      • Tacky (slightly wet or gluey)
      • Hard to separate once attached
      • May leave residue when touched

      Examples:

      • Sticky tape
      • Sticky tree sap
      • Sticky candy or syrup

      3) Common contexts where “sticky” is used

      a) Nature / biology

      • “Sap is sticky, helping protect the tree.”
      • “Some plants have sticky leaves to trap insects.”

      Here, sticky often describes an adaptation for protection or feeding.


      b) Everyday objects

      • “The label left a sticky mark.”
      • “My hands are sticky from juice.”

      c) Figurative (non-physical) meanings

      Sticky can also describe difficult or awkward situations:

      • “That’s a sticky problem.”
      • “He got into a sticky situation.”

      Meaning: hard to deal with or escape from.


      4) Grammar notes

      • Part of speech: adjective
      • Comparative: stickier
      • Superlative: stickiest
      • Related words:

      • stick (verb)

      • sticky substance (noun phrase)

      Example sentences:

      • “The resin is sticky.”
      • “This tape is stickier than that one.”

      5) “Sticky” vs similar words

      | Word | Difference | | ---------- | ---------------------- | | sticky | general, everyday term | | adhesive | more technical | | tacky | lightly sticky | | gluey | thick, glue-like |


      6) Pronunciation

      • sticky /ˈstɪk.i/ Sounds like “STIK-ee”.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“sticky”的基本意思

      sticky 是一个形容词,意思是 黏的、粘的、容易粘住东西的

      简单说: sticky = 有黏性的


      2)常见物理特征

      被形容为 sticky 的东西通常:

      • 容易粘住 其他物体
      • 触感发黏
      • 不容易分开
      • 有时会 留下黏性残留物

      例子:

      • 黏胶
      • 树脂
      • 糖浆

      3)常见使用场景

      ① 自然 / 生物

      • 树的树脂是 黏的,可以防虫
      • 捕虫植物用 黏液 抓昆虫

      ② 日常生活

      • 手上沾了果汁,很
      • 胶带留下 黏痕

      ③ 引申含义

      sticky 也可形容 棘手、难处理的情况

      • “这是个 棘手的问题。”

      4)语法

      • 词性: 形容词
      • 比较级: stickier
      • 最高级: stickiest

      例句:

      • 这个表面很
      • 这种胶更

      5)与近义词区别

      | 英文 | 中文差别 | | -------- | --------- | | sticky | 通用“黏” | | adhesive | 技术性“有黏附力” | | tacky | 微黏 | | gluey | 像胶水一样黏 |


      6)发音

      • sticky /ˈstɪki/ 中文可近似读作:“斯提基”

      If you want, you can paste the 完整句子或课文 where sticky appears (例如 Science 10 的生态系统描述), and I’ll explain 它在该语境中的准确含义和考点(中英对照)。

    6. beaks

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “beaks” literally means

      Beaks is the plural noun of beak. A beak is the hard, pointed mouthpart of birds (and some other animals) used for eating, grasping, grooming, building nests, and defense.

      In simple terms: beaks = the hard mouths of birds


      2) What beaks are made of

      • Beaks are covered with keratin (the same material as human fingernails).
      • They do not contain teeth.
      • Beaks grow continuously and are shaped by use and diet.

      3) Why beaks have different shapes (adaptation)

      Beak shape reflects what and how an animal eats:

      | Beak type | Shape | Function | | ------------- | ------------- | --------------------------------- | | Short & thick | Cone-shaped | Cracking seeds (e.g., finches) | | Long & thin | Needle-like | Sipping nectar / catching insects | | Hooked | Sharp, curved | Tearing meat (hawks, owls) | | Flat & broad | Wide | Filtering food from water (ducks) |

      This is a classic example of adaptation and natural selection.


      4) Other animals with beaks

      While most common in birds, beaks are also found in:

      • Turtles (no teeth)
      • Octopus & squid (hard beak-like jaws)

      5) How the word is used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “beaks”, it usually functions as:

      • a topic heading (e.g., bird adaptations),
      • a label under images or diagrams,
      • a vocabulary term in biology,
      • or a list item (e.g., wings, feathers, beaks).

      6) Pronunciation

      • beak /biːk/
      • beaks /biːks/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“beaks”的基本意思

      beaksbeak(喙) 的复数形式。 是鸟类坚硬的口器,用于 进食、抓取、整理羽毛、筑巢、防御 等。

      简单说: beaks = 鸟的嘴(喙)


      2)喙的结构

      • 主要由 角蛋白 构成
      • 没有牙齿
      • 持续生长,形状与食性密切相关

      3)喙的形状与功能(适应性)

      不同鸟类的喙形状不同,是为了适应不同食物:

      | 喙形 | 功能 | | ---- | ----------- | | 短而厚 | 啄碎种子 | | 细而长 | 吸食花蜜 / 捕捉昆虫 | | 弯钩状 | 撕裂肉类 | | 扁平宽阔 | 过滤水中食物 |

      这是生物课中常见的 适应性进化 例子。


      4)非鸟类中的“喙”

      除了鸟类,一些动物也有喙:

      • 龟类(没有牙齿)
      • 章鱼、鱿鱼(坚硬喙状结构)

      5)单独出现 “beaks” 的含义

      如果只看到 beaks,通常是:

      • 章节标题 / 分类名称
      • 图片或图表说明
      • 生物学词汇

      6)发音

      • beaks /biːks/ 中文可近似读作:“比克斯”

      If you want, paste the full sentence, diagram, or exam question where beaks appears, and I’ll explain its exact role and why it matters in that context(中英对照).

    7. tree bark

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “tree bark” literally means

      Tree bark is the outer protective covering of a tree’s trunk, branches, and roots. It is not wood; it’s the layer outside the wood that shields the tree from harm.

      In simple terms: tree bark = the tree’s “skin”


      2) What bark is made of (structure)

      Bark usually includes two main parts:

      • Outer bark

      • Dead tissue

      • Protects against injury, insects, disease, fire, and weather
      • Inner bark (phloem)

      • Living tissue

      • Transports sugars and nutrients from leaves to the rest of the tree

      Together, these layers keep the tree alive and protected.


      3) Main functions of tree bark

      Tree bark helps a tree by:

      • Protecting it from physical damage
      • Preventing water loss
      • Blocking pests and pathogens
      • Insulating against heat and cold
      • Helping some species survive fire (thick bark)

      4) Bark differences among trees

      Bark appearance varies widely:

      • Birch bark: smooth, pale, papery
      • Pine bark: thick, rough, scaly
      • Oak bark: deeply ridged
      • Young trees often have smoother bark than older trees

      These differences help with tree identification.


      5) Bark in ecology

      Tree bark:

      • Provides habitat for insects, lichens, mosses, and fungi
      • Offers shelter for small animals
      • Supports forest biodiversity

      6) How the phrase is used if it appears alone

      If you see “tree bark” by itself, it usually functions as:

      • a label or caption (e.g., under a photo),
      • a science vocabulary term,
      • part of a description (e.g., “lichen grows on tree bark”).

      7) Pronunciation

      • tree bark /triː bɑːrk/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“tree bark”的基本意思

      tree bark树皮,是覆盖在树干、树枝和根部最外层的组织。

      简单说: tree bark = 树的“皮肤”


      2)树皮的结构

      树皮一般包括两部分:

      • 外树皮

      • 多为死亡组织

      • 主要起 保护作用
      • 内树皮(韧皮部)

      • 活组织

      • 负责 运输养分和糖分

      3)树皮的主要作用

      树皮的功能包括:

      • 保护树体(防撞伤、虫害、病菌)
      • 减少水分流失
      • 隔热保温
      • 在某些树种中 防火

      4)不同树种的树皮差异

      • 桦树皮:白色、光滑、可剥落
      • 松树皮:厚、粗糙、呈鳞片状
      • 橡树皮:深裂、粗糙

      这些差异常用于 识别树种


      5)生态意义

      树皮为生态系统提供:

      • 昆虫、苔藓、地衣的 生境
      • 小动物的 藏身处
      • 提高森林 生物多样性

      6)单独出现 “tree bark” 的含义

      如果只看到 tree bark,通常是:

      • 图片说明
      • 科学词汇
      • 生态系统描述的一部分

      7)发音

      • tree bark 读作 /triː bɑːrk/ 中文可近似理解为:“特里·巴克”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or diagram where tree bark appears (for example in a Science 10 forest ecosystem passage), and I’ll explain why it’s mentioned and what concept it supports, in both English and Chinese.

    8. Ferns

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “Ferns” literally means

      Ferns is the plural noun of fern. It refers to a group of non-flowering, seedless plants that reproduce by spores, not seeds.

      In simple terms: ferns = leafy plants with fronds that reproduce by spores instead of flowers or seeds


      2) Key characteristics of ferns

      • Fronds: Fern “leaves” are called fronds, often divided into many small leaflets.
      • No flowers or seeds: Ferns never produce flowers, fruits, or seeds.
      • Spores: Reproduction occurs via spores, usually found on the underside of fronds in clusters (sori).
      • Vascular plants: They do have roots, stems, and leaves (unlike mosses).
      • Moist habitats: Most prefer shady, damp environments.

      3) Life cycle (important for science classes)

      Ferns have alternation of generations:

      1. The visible fern plant is the sporophyte.
      2. It produces spores on the fronds.
      3. Spores grow into a tiny gametophyte.
      4. Fertilization requires water, which is why ferns thrive in moist places.

      This explains why ferns are common near forests, streams, and wetlands.


      4) Ferns vs. mosses vs. seed plants

      | Feature | Ferns | Mosses | Seed plants | | --------------- | ---------- | ----------- | ----------- | | Vascular tissue | ✅ Yes | ❌ No | ✅ Yes | | Flowers | ❌ No | ❌ No | ✅ (many) | | Seeds | ❌ No | ❌ No | ✅ Yes | | Reproduction | Spores | Spores | Seeds | | Dominant stage | Sporophyte | Gametophyte | Sporophyte |


      5) Common examples

      • Bracken fern
      • Sword fern (very common in British Columbia)
      • Maidenhair fern
      • Tree ferns (tropical regions)

      6) How the word is used if it appears alone

      If you see “Ferns” by itself, it is usually:

      • a heading or section title in a biology text,
      • a category name (e.g., mosses → ferns → conifers),
      • a label under images or diagrams,
      • a vocabulary term in Science 10.

      7) Pronunciation

      • fern /fɝːn/
      • ferns /fɝːnz/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“Ferns”的基本意思

      Fernsfern(蕨类植物) 的复数形式,指 蕨类植物。 蕨类 不开花、不结果、不结种子,而是通过 孢子 繁殖。

      简单说: ferns = 通过孢子繁殖的蕨类植物


      2)蕨类植物的主要特征

      • 叶片(fronds):常呈羽状分裂
      • 无花无种子:这是蕨类的核心特征
      • 孢子繁殖:孢子多生在叶背的 孢子囊群
      • 维管植物:有根、茎、叶
      • 喜阴湿环境

      3)生活史(考试重点)

      蕨类具有 世代交替

      1. 我们看到的大型蕨类是 孢子体
      2. 孢子发育成 配子体
      3. 受精需要水

      这也是蕨类多分布在潮湿地区的原因。


      4)蕨类与苔藓、种子植物对比

      | 特点 | 蕨类 | 苔藓 | 种子植物 | | ---- | --- | --- | ---- | | 输导组织 | ✅ | ❌ | ✅ | | 种子 | ❌ | ❌ | ✅ | | 花 | ❌ | ❌ | ✅ | | 显性世代 | 孢子体 | 配子体 | 孢子体 |


      5)常见蕨类

      • 蕨菜
      • 剑蕨(BC 非常常见)
      • 铁线蕨
      • 树蕨(热带)

      6)单独出现 “Ferns” 的含义

      如果只出现 Ferns,通常表示:

      • 章节标题 / 分类名称
      • 植物类型标签
      • 科学课词汇

      7)发音

      • Ferns /fɜːrnz/ 中文可近似读作:“芬兹”

      If you want, you can paste the 完整句子、图表或考试题 where Ferns appears, and I’ll explain 它在该语境中的具体含义和考点(中英对照)。

    9. lichens

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “lichens” literally means

      Lichens is the plural noun of lichen. Lichens are not single organisms; they are a partnership (symbiosis) between:

      • a fungus (provides structure and protection), and
      • an alga or cyanobacterium (makes food by photosynthesis).

      In simple terms: lichens = organisms made of fungus + algae living together


      2) How lichens live (the key idea)

      • The fungus forms the body and absorbs water/minerals.
      • The alga/cyanobacterium produces sugars using sunlight. Both partners benefit → this is mutualism.

      3) Main types of lichens (by shape)

      • Crustose: flat and crust-like; tightly attached to rocks or bark
      • Foliose: leaf-like, with lobes; partly attached
      • Fruticose: shrubby or hair-like; often hanging or branching

      4) Where lichens are found

      Lichens can grow in extreme environments:

      • On rocks, tree bark, soil, rooftops
      • In cold Arctic regions, mountains, and dry areas They don’t need soil because they get nutrients from air and rain.

      5) Ecological importance

      Lichens are very important because they:

      • Act as pioneer species, starting soil formation on bare rock
      • Help break down rock into soil (slowly)
      • Provide food for some animals (e.g., caribou eat reindeer lichen)
      • Are air-quality indicators (very sensitive to pollution)

      6) How the word is used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “lichens”, it usually functions as:

      • a heading in a biology or ecosystem section,
      • a plant-like category (often listed with mosses and ferns),
      • a label under a photo or diagram,
      • a science vocabulary term.

      7) Pronunciation

      • lichen /ˈlaɪ.kən/ (“LYE-ken”) or /ˈlɪtʃ.ən/ (both accepted)
      • lichens /ˈlaɪ.kənz/ or /ˈlɪtʃ.ənz/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“lichens”的基本意思

      lichenslichen(地衣) 的复数形式。 地衣不是单一生物,而是由 真菌 + 藻类(或蓝藻) 共同组成的 共生体

      简单说: lichens = 真菌和藻类共同生活形成的生物


      2)地衣是如何生存的(核心概念)

      • 真菌:提供结构、保护,并吸收水分和矿物质
      • 藻类/蓝藻:进行光合作用,制造养分 两者互利共生,称为 互利共生(mutualism)

      3)地衣的主要形态

      • 壳状地衣:紧贴岩石,像一层壳
      • 叶状地衣:像叶子,有裂片
      • 枝状地衣:呈灌木状或须状,常下垂

      4)地衣的生境

      地衣能生活在 极端环境 中:

      • 岩石、树皮、土壤、屋顶
      • 高寒、干旱、贫瘠地区 它们 不需要土壤,主要从 空气和雨水 中获取养分。

      5)生态意义(考试常考)

      地衣的作用包括:

      • 先锋物种:最早在裸岩上定居,促进土壤形成
      • 风化岩石,为其他植物创造条件
      • 食物来源:如驯鹿/北美驯鹿以地衣为食
      • 空气污染指示生物:对污染极其敏感

      6)单独出现 “lichens” 的含义

      如果只看到 lichens,通常表示:

      • 章节标题 / 分类名称
      • 生态系统中的一类生物
      • 图片或图表说明
      • 科学词汇

      7)发音

      • lichens 可读作 /ˈlaɪkənz/(常见) 中文可近似读作:“莱肯兹 / 莱肯斯”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or diagram (for example from a Science 10 forest ecosystem passage), and I’ll explain exact meaning, function, and why lichens are mentioned there, in both English and Chinese.

    10. draped

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “draped” literally means

      Draped is the past tense / past participle of the verb drape. It means hung loosely or laid over something so that it falls naturally in folds.

      In simple terms: draped = loosely hung or spread over something


      2) Core idea

      The key idea behind draped is gravity + softness:

      • The object is not tight or fixed
      • It falls naturally, often creating folds or curves
      • It usually covers or partly covers what’s underneath

      3) Common contexts where “draped” is used

      a) Nature & science texts

      • “Snow lay draped over the branches.”
      • “Mosses were draped over rocks and logs.”

      Here, draped emphasizes gentle coverage, not force or damage.


      b) Clothing & fabric

      • “A scarf was draped over her shoulders.”
      • “Curtains draped across the window.”

      c) Figurative / descriptive use

      • “Darkness was draped over the valley.”
      • “Silence draped the room.”

      This use creates a soft, atmospheric image.


      4) Grammar notes

      • Base verb: drape
      • Past / past participle: draped
      • Passive voice: often used

      • “The hills were draped in fog.”

      Common patterns:

      • draped over (something)
      • draped across (something)
      • draped in (something)

      5) “Draped” vs similar words

      | Word | Difference | | ----------- | --------------------------- | | draped | loose, natural, soft | | covered | neutral, no texture implied | | wrapped | tight, enclosed | | coated | thin layer, often liquid |


      6) Pronunciation

      • draped /dreɪpt/ Rhymes with “shaped”.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“draped”的基本意思

      draped 是动词 drape过去式/过去分词,意思是: 松散地垂挂、披着、覆盖在……之上,通常是 自然下垂的状态

      简单说: draped = 垂挂着的、披着的


      2)核心含义

      “draped” 强调的是:

      • 不紧、不包裹
      • 自然下垂
      • 柔和地覆盖

      3)常见使用场景

      ① 自然 / 科学文本

      • “雪 披在 树枝上。”
      • “苔藓 垂挂在 岩石上。”

      这里的 draped 强调 轻柔覆盖,不是压断或破坏。


      ② 服装 / 织物

      • 围巾 披在 肩上
      • 窗帘 垂挂在 窗前

      ③ 文学 / 抽象描写

      • “黑暗 笼罩着 山谷。”
      • “寂静 笼罩 房间。”

      4)常见搭配

      • draped over(垂挂在……上)
      • draped across(横跨覆盖)
      • draped in(被……笼罩)

      5)与相近词对比

      | 英文 | 中文区别 | | ---------- | ----------- | | draped | 垂挂、披着(柔软自然) | | covered | 覆盖(中性) | | wrapped | 包裹(紧) | | coated | 涂层(薄层) |


      6)发音

      • draped /dreɪpt/ 中文可近似读作:“德瑞普特”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence where draped appears (for example in a Science 10 forest ecosystem passage), and I’ll explain why this word is chosen instead of “covered”, in both English and Chinese.

    11. Mosses

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “Mosses” literally means

      Mosses is the plural noun of moss. It refers to a group of small, non-vascular plants (called bryophytes) that do not produce flowers or seeds and instead reproduce by spores.

      In simple terms: mosses = tiny green plants that grow in damp places and reproduce by spores


      2) Key characteristics of mosses

      • Non-vascular: They lack xylem and phloem, so water moves by diffusion.
      • No true roots: They have rhizoids (hair-like anchors), not real roots.
      • Spore reproduction: Spores are produced in a capsule on a stalk.
      • Small size: Usually form soft mats or carpets on soil, rocks, or tree bark.
      • Moisture dependent: Water is required for fertilization.

      3) Life cycle (important for science courses)

      Mosses show alternation of generations, but with a key difference from ferns:

      • The gametophyte (the green, leafy plant you see) is the dominant stage.
      • The sporophyte (stalk + capsule) grows attached to and dependent on the gametophyte.
      • Sperm must swim through water to reach the egg → explains why mosses prefer wet habitats.

      4) Mosses vs. ferns vs. seed plants (quick comparison)

      | Feature | Mosses | Ferns | Seed plants | | --------------- | ----------- | ---------- | ----------- | | Vascular tissue | ❌ No | ✅ Yes | ✅ Yes | | Seeds | ❌ No | ❌ No | ✅ Yes | | Flowers | ❌ No | ❌ No | ✅ (many) | | Dominant stage | Gametophyte | Sporophyte | Sporophyte | | Typical size | Very small | Medium | Large |


      5) Ecological importance

      Mosses play major roles in ecosystems:

      • Soil formation on bare rock (pioneer species)
      • Moisture retention in forests
      • Erosion control
      • Provide microhabitats for tiny organisms

      6) How the word is used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “Mosses”, it most likely functions as:

      • a section heading in a biology text,
      • a plant category (e.g., mosses → ferns → conifers),
      • a label/caption under images or diagrams,
      • or a vocabulary term in Science 10.

      7) Pronunciation

      • mosses /ˈmɒsɪz/ or /ˈmɔːsɪz/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“Mosses”的基本意思

      Mossesmoss(苔藓) 的复数形式,指 苔藓植物。 苔藓是 非维管植物不开花、不结种子,通过 孢子繁殖

      简单说: mosses = 苔藓植物


      2)苔藓的主要特征

      • 无输导组织:没有真正的导管
      • 无真根:只有 假根(rhizoids),主要用于固定
      • 孢子繁殖:孢子囊产生孢子
      • 体型很小:常形成绿色苔藓毯
      • 依赖水环境:受精必须有水

      3)生活史(考试重点)

      苔藓具有 世代交替,但特点是:

      • 配子体(绿色主体)是 显性世代
      • 孢子体 依附在配子体上生长
      • 精子需要水游动 才能完成受精

      这就是苔藓多分布在 阴湿环境 的原因。


      4)苔藓、蕨类与种子植物对比

      | 特点 | 苔藓 | 蕨类 | 种子植物 | | ---- | --- | --- | ---- | | 输导组织 | ❌ | ✅ | ✅ | | 种子 | ❌ | ❌ | ✅ | | 花 | ❌ | ❌ | ✅ | | 显性世代 | 配子体 | 孢子体 | 孢子体 | | 体型 | 很小 | 中等 | 大 |


      5)生态作用

      • 促进土壤形成
      • 保持湿度
      • 防止水土流失
      • 先锋植物
      • 提供 微生境

      6)单独出现 “Mosses” 的含义

      如果只看到 Mosses,通常表示:

      • 章节标题 / 分类名称
      • 图表或图片说明
      • 科学词汇

      7)发音

      • Mosses 读作 /ˈmɔːsɪz/ 中文可近似读作:“莫西兹”

      If you want, paste the full sentence、图表或考试题 where Mosses appears, and I’ll explain 它在该语境中的确切含义与考点(中英对照)。

    12. Sitka spruce

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “Sitka spruce” means

      Sitka spruce is a large evergreen coniferous tree (Picea sitchensis) native to the Pacific Northwest coast of North America—from Alaska down through British Columbia to California.

      In simple terms: Sitka spruce = a very tall coastal evergreen tree common in wet, cool climates.


      2) Key identifying features

      • Size: One of the tallest trees in North America (often 60–90 m; some even taller).
      • Needles: Short, stiff, sharp needles (bluish-green), attached singly to the twig.
      • Cones: Long, hanging cones (typical of spruces).
      • Bark: Thin, gray-brown, flaky or scaly.
      • Growth conditions: Thrives in cool, moist, foggy coastal environments.

      3) Habitat & distribution

      • Found mainly in coastal rainforests.
      • Very common in coastal British Columbia (including Vancouver Island).
      • Often grows alongside western hemlock and western red cedar.

      4) Ecological importance

      • Forms the canopy of coastal temperate rainforests.
      • Provides habitat for birds and mammals.
      • Stabilizes soil in wet, windy coastal areas.

      5) Human uses

      • Wood: Lightweight yet strong; used in construction, boat building, and aircraft (historically).
      • Musical instruments: Highly valued for guitar soundboards, violins, and pianos due to excellent resonance.
      • Indigenous use: Traditionally used for tools, housing materials, and baskets.

      6) How it’s usually used in texts

      If you see “Sitka spruce” alone, it’s usually:

      • a species name in a biology/geography text,
      • a forest-type label,
      • or a key example of a coastal evergreen tree.

      Example sentence:

      • “Sitka spruce dominates many coastal forests of British Columbia.”

      7) Pronunciation

      • Sitka spruce /ˈsɪt.kə spruːs/ Sounds like: SIT-kuh sproose

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“Sitka spruce”的基本意思

      Sitka spruce西加云杉(学名 Picea sitchensis),是一种生长在 北美太平洋沿岸大型常绿针叶树

      简单说: Sitka spruce = 太平洋沿岸常见的高大云杉树


      2)主要特征

      • 树高极高:北美最高的树种之一
      • 针叶:短而尖,单根生长
      • 球果:细长,下垂
      • 树皮:灰褐色,薄且呈鳞片状
      • 环境适应:喜 凉爽、潮湿、多雾 的气候

      3)分布与生境

      • 主要分布在 阿拉斯加—BC—加州沿海
      • 不列颠哥伦比亚省沿海 非常常见
      • 常与 西部铁杉、西部红雪松 混生

      4)生态价值

      • 构成 沿海温带雨林 的主体
      • 为鸟类和哺乳动物提供 栖息地
      • 帮助 稳固土壤、防风防侵蚀

      5)人类用途

      • 木材:轻而结实,用于建筑、造船
      • 乐器木材:制作吉他、钢琴、提琴音板
      • 原住民传统用途:工具、建筑材料、编织品

      6)在课本中的常见作用

      如果单独出现 Sitka spruce,通常是:

      • 植物物种名
      • 森林类型代表树种
      • BC 沿海生态系统的典型例子

      7)发音

      • Sitka spruce 读作 /ˈsɪtkə spruːs/ 中文可近似读作:“西特卡 斯普鲁斯”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or diagram (for example from a Science 10 or BC ecosystems reading), and I’ll explain why Sitka spruce is mentioned there and what point it supports, in both English and Chinese.

    13. blue jays

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “blue jays” literally means

      Blue jays is the plural noun of blue jay, a medium-sized songbird native to North America. They are famous for their bright blue feathers, white chest, black markings, and loud, intelligent behavior.

      In simple terms: blue jays = bright blue birds known for loud calls and high intelligence.


      2) Key characteristics of blue jays

      • Color: Blue on top, white underneath, with black bars and a black “necklace”
      • Crest: A small crest on the head that rises when the bird is alert
      • Voice: Very vocal—can squawk loudly and even imitate hawks
      • Diet: Omnivorous—nuts (especially acorns), seeds, insects, fruit, eggs
      • Intelligence: Highly intelligent; excellent memory for food storage

      3) Behavior and habits

      • Food caching: Blue jays hide food (especially acorns) and remember where they put it
      • Territorial: Can be aggressive toward other birds
      • Social: Often seen alone or in small groups; sometimes form flocks in migration
      • Seasonal movement: Some migrate, some stay year-round (common in Canada)

      4) Ecological role

      Blue jays are important to ecosystems because they:

      • Help spread oak trees by burying acorns
      • Control insect populations
      • Act as alarm birds, warning other animals of predators

      5) How the phrase might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “blue jays”, it most likely functions as:

      • a heading or topic label (e.g., forest animals),
      • an item in a list (e.g., blue jays, chipmunks, cougars),
      • a caption under a photo,
      • or a vocabulary term in a science reading.

      6) Pronunciation

      • blue jay /bluː dʒeɪ/
      • blue jays /bluː dʒeɪz/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“blue jays”的基本意思

      blue jaysblue jay(蓝松鸦) 的复数形式,指一种生活在 北美 的鸟类,以 鲜艳的蓝色羽毛吵闹、聪明 而著名。

      简单说: blue jays = 蓝松鸦,蓝色、聪明、声音很大的鸟


      2)蓝松鸦的主要特征

      • 羽毛颜色: 蓝色为主,腹部白色,带黑色条纹
      • 冠羽: 头顶有可竖起的小羽冠
      • 叫声: 非常吵,能模仿猛禽的叫声
      • 食性: 杂食(坚果、昆虫、水果等)
      • 智力高: 善于记忆和储存食物

      3)行为习性

      • 储存食物:会把橡子等藏起来,之后再取用
      • 领地意识强:对其他鸟类有攻击性
      • 部分迁徙:有的迁徙,有的全年居住(加拿大常见)

      4)生态作用

      • 帮助 传播橡树种子
      • 控制害虫数量
      • 作为“警戒鸟”,提醒周围动物有危险

      5)单独出现 “blue jays” 的含义

      如果只看到 blue jays,通常表示:

      • 标题 / 分类名称
      • 动物列表中的一项
      • 图片说明
      • 科学或阅读理解词汇

      6)发音

      • blue jays /bluː dʒeɪz/ 中文可近似读作:“布鲁 杰兹”

      If you’d like, paste the full sentence or paragraph (for example from a Science 10 ecosystem or food-web passage), and I’ll explain their exact role and meaning in context in both English and Chinese.

    14. chipmunks

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “chipmunks” literally means

      Chipmunks is the plural noun of chipmunk. It refers to small, ground-dwelling rodents in the squirrel family, easily recognized by their striped backs and cheek pouches.

      In simple terms: chipmunks = small striped rodents that store food in their cheeks.


      2) Key characteristics of chipmunks

      • Size: Small and agile; smaller than squirrels
      • Stripes: Distinct dark and light stripes running along the back
      • Cheek pouches: Expandable pouches used to carry and store food
      • Diet: Omnivores—seeds, nuts, berries, insects
      • Behavior: Very active during the day (diurnal) and quick movers

      3) Habitat and behavior

      • Live in forests, woodlands, and rocky areas
      • Build burrows underground for nesting and food storage
      • Often seen scurrying along the ground or sitting upright while eating
      • In cold regions, they enter torpor (light hibernation) and rely on stored food

      4) Ecological role

      Chipmunks play useful roles in ecosystems:

      • Seed dispersal, helping plants spread
      • Part of the food web as prey for birds, snakes, and larger mammals
      • Help aerate soil through burrowing

      5) How the word might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “chipmunks”, it likely functions as:

      • a heading or label in a biology or ecosystem section,
      • an item in an animal list (e.g., skunks, chipmunks, cougars),
      • a caption under a photo,
      • or a vocabulary term in science.

      6) Pronunciation

      • chipmunk /ˈtʃɪp.mʌŋk/
      • chipmunks /ˈtʃɪp.mʌŋks/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“chipmunks”的基本意思

      chipmunkschipmunk 的复数形式,指 花栗鼠,是一种体型很小、背部有明显条纹的啮齿动物。

      简单说: chipmunks = 花栗鼠,小型、有条纹、会囤食物的动物


      2)花栗鼠的主要特征

      • 体型小巧,行动敏捷
      • 背部条纹明显,便于识别
      • 颊囊发达,可用来装食物
      • 杂食性:吃种子、坚果、浆果、昆虫
      • 日行性:白天活动频繁

      3)栖息环境与行为

      • 常见于 森林、林地、岩石区
      • 在地下 挖洞筑巢,储存食物
      • 天冷时会进入 半冬眠状态,靠储存食物度过

      4)生态系统中的作用

      • 传播植物种子
      • 是许多动物的重要 食物来源
      • 挖洞有助于 改善土壤结构

      5)单独出现 “chipmunks” 的含义

      如果只看到 chipmunks,通常表示:

      • 标题 / 分类名称
      • 动物清单中的一项
      • 图片说明
      • 科学或阅读理解词汇

      6)发音

      • chipmunks /ˈtʃɪp.mʌŋks/ 中文可近似读作:“奇普芒克斯”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or paragraph (for example from a Science 10 ecosystem or food-web passage), and I’ll explain the exact role and meaning in context in both English and Chinese.

    15. cougars

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “cougars” literally means

      Cougars is the plural noun of cougar. It refers to a large wild cat species found mainly in the Americas. The same animal is also commonly called mountain lion, puma, or panther (regional names).

      In simple terms: cougars = large wild cats that are powerful predators.


      2) Key characteristics of cougars

      • Size & build: Large, muscular cats with long tails; adults can be as big as a person in length (tail included).
      • Color: Usually tan or light brown, helping them blend into forests and mountains.
      • Movement: Excellent jumpers and climbers; can leap long distances.
      • Diet: Carnivores—they hunt deer and other animals.
      • Behavior: Solitary and mostly nocturnal or crepuscular (active at dawn and dusk).

      3) Habitat and range

      Cougars live in a wide range of environments:

      • Mountains
      • Forests
      • Grasslands
      • Deserts

      They are found from Canada through the western United States and down into South America. In British Columbia, cougars are part of the natural ecosystem.


      4) Role in ecosystems

      Cougars are apex predators:

      • They help control prey populations (such as deer).
      • This prevents overgrazing and helps maintain ecosystem balance.

      5) How the word might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “cougars”, it most likely functions as:

      • a heading or topic label (e.g., animals in a forest ecosystem),
      • a category item in a list (e.g., wolves, bears, cougars),
      • a caption under an image,
      • or a vocabulary word in a science or geography text.

      6) Pronunciation

      • cougar /ˈkuː.ɡɚ/
      • cougars /ˈkuː.ɡɚz/ Sounds like “KOO-gar(s)”.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“cougars”的基本意思

      cougarscougar 的复数形式,指 美洲狮(也常称为 山狮 / 美洲豹猫 / puma,不同地区叫法不同)。

      简单说: cougars = 美洲狮,一种大型野生猫科动物


      2)美洲狮的主要特征

      • 体型健壮,尾巴很长
      • 毛色偏棕黄,有利于伪装
      • 跳跃与攀爬能力极强
      • 肉食性,以鹿等动物为主要猎物
      • 独居、警惕性高,多在黄昏或夜间活动

      3)栖息环境与分布

      美洲狮分布范围很广,包括:

      • 山地
      • 森林
      • 草原
      • 沙漠

      加拿大(包括 BC),美洲狮是重要的本地大型捕食者。


      4)生态系统中的作用

      美洲狮属于 顶级捕食者

      • 控制食草动物数量
      • 维持生态平衡
      • 防止植被被过度啃食

      5)单独出现 “cougars” 的含义

      如果只看到 cougars,通常表示:

      • 章节标题 / 分类名称
      • 动物列表中的一项
      • 图片说明
      • 自然科学词汇

      6)发音

      • cougars /ˈkuːɡərz/ 中文可近似读作:“库-嘎兹”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or paragraph (for example from a Science 10 food web or forest ecosystem passage), and I’ll explain exact meaning, ecological role, and exam-relevant points in both English and Chinese.

    16. skunks

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “skunks” literally means

      Skunks is the plural noun of skunk. It refers to small to medium-sized mammals best known for their ability to spray a strong-smelling liquid as a defense.

      In simple terms: skunks = animals famous for their black-and-white coloring and strong defensive smell.


      2) Key characteristics of skunks

      • Distinctive coloring: Usually black with white stripes or spots, which serves as a warning to predators.
      • Defensive spray: They can spray a pungent liquid from scent glands near the tail to deter threats.
      • Diet: Omnivores—they eat insects, small animals, fruits, plants, and garbage.
      • Behavior: Mostly nocturnal (active at night) and generally non-aggressive unless threatened.

      3) How skunks use their spray

      Skunks do not spray immediately. They usually:

      1. Raise their tail
      2. Stamp their feet
      3. Turn their back as a warning
      4. Spray only if the threat continues

      The spray can reach several meters and is very hard to remove.


      4) Habitats and range

      Skunks are common in North and Central America and often live:

      • In forests
      • Along grasslands
      • Near farms
      • In suburban neighborhoods (including many parts of Canada)

      They adapt well to human environments.


      5) How the word might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “skunks”, it most likely functions as:

      • a heading or topic label (e.g., a wildlife section),
      • a category name in a list of animals,
      • a caption under a picture,
      • or a vocabulary term in a science text.

      6) Pronunciation

      • skunk /skʌŋk/
      • skunks /skʌŋks/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“skunks”的基本意思

      skunksskunk(臭鼬) 的复数形式,指 臭鼬 这种哺乳动物。 臭鼬以 能喷射强烈臭味的防御液体 而闻名。

      简单说: skunks = 臭鼬,多为黑白相间、以臭味防身的动物


      2)臭鼬的主要特征

      • 黑白警戒色:提醒天敌“不要靠近”
      • 臭味喷射:从尾部附近的腺体喷出,味道极其刺鼻
      • 杂食性:吃昆虫、小动物、水果、植物、人类食物残渣
      • 夜行性:多在夜间活动,性格一般较温和

      3)臭鼬的防御行为

      臭鼬通常 不会立刻喷臭液,而是先警告:

      1. 翘尾巴
      2. 跺脚
      3. 转身对准威胁
      4. 最后才喷射

      4)栖息环境

      臭鼬主要分布在 北美和中美洲,在加拿大十分常见,常见于:

      • 森林边缘
      • 草地
      • 农场
      • 郊区住宅区

      5)单独出现 “skunks” 的含义

      如果只出现一个词 skunks,通常是:

      • 标题 / 分类名称
      • 动物清单中的一项
      • 图片说明
      • 科学或阅读理解词汇

      6)发音

      • skunks /skʌŋks/ 中文可近似读作:“斯康克斯”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or paragraph (for example from a Science 10 ecosystem passage), and I’ll explain how skunks fit into that context, in both English and Chinese.

    17. breakage

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “breakage” literally means

      Breakage is a noun that refers to the act, process, or result of breaking. It describes damage caused when something breaks, often into pieces or becomes structurally weakened.

      In simple terms: breakage = the damage or loss caused by something breaking.


      2) What kinds of things can have “breakage”

      Breakage can apply to many contexts:

      • Plants & nature:

      • “Snow causes branch breakage.” (Branches snap under heavy snow.)

      • Materials & objects:

      • “Glass breakage during transport.”

      • Hair & fibers:

      • “Hair breakage from dryness or heat.”

      • Engineering & science:

      • “Metal breakage due to stress or fatigue.”

      👉 The focus is usually on damage or loss, not the action itself.


      3) Grammar & usage notes

      • Part of speech: noun
      • Countability: usually uncountable (general damage), but can be countable in technical contexts
      • Related forms:

      • break (verb)

      • broken (adjective)

      Common patterns:

      • prevent/reduce breakage
      • risk of breakage
      • breakage occurs when…

      Example sentences:

      • “Leaf drop reduces snow breakage in trees.”
      • “Careful packaging minimizes breakage.”

      4) Science & ecology context (very common)

      In biology or geography texts, breakage often appears when explaining adaptations:

      • Deciduous trees shed leaves to reduce branch breakage from snow load.
      • Flexible materials reduce breakage under stress.

      So here, breakage means structural damage caused by external forces.


      5) Pronunciation

      • breakage /ˈbreɪ.kɪdʒ/ Sounds like: BRAY-kij

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“breakage”的基本意思

      breakage 是一个名词,指 破损、断裂、损坏,强调 由于“断裂”而造成的结果或损失

      简单说: breakage = 因断裂造成的损坏


      2)常见使用场景

      • 自然 / 植物:

      • 积雪造成树枝 折断

      • 物品运输:

      • 玻璃制品的 破损率

      • 日常生活:

      • 头发 断裂

      • 工程 / 科学:

      • 材料在应力下发生 断裂

      👉 重点不是“打断这个动作”,而是 断了之后的损坏状态


      3)语法与搭配

      • 词性: 名词
      • 可数性: 多为 不可数名词
      • 常见搭配:

      • 减少 / 防止 breakage

      • breakage 的风险
      • breakage 发生

      例句:

      • 落叶可以减少树枝因积雪造成的 折断
      • 小心包装可以降低 破损

      4)考试与课本中的常见含义

      在科学课中,breakage 常用于解释 适应性结构

      • 落叶树在冬天落叶,以减少树枝因积雪而发生的 断裂

      5)发音

      • breakage /ˈbreɪ.kɪdʒ/ 中文可近似读作:“布雷-基志”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or paragraph where breakage appears (for example in a Science 10 ecosystem passage), and I’ll explain the exact meaning and why it’s used there, in both English and Chinese.

    18. shed

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) Core meanings of “shed”

      Shed can be both a verb and a noun, with related but different meanings.

      A) Verb: to shed

      To shed means to let something fall off, drop, or be removed naturally, often as part of a normal process.

      Common uses:

      • Plants: “Trees shed their leaves in autumn.”
      • Animals: “Snakes shed their skin.” / “Dogs shed fur.”
      • Abstract: “She shed her fears.” / “He shed tears.”

      👉 Core idea: losing or getting rid of something, often naturally or gradually.


      B) Noun: a shed

      A shed (noun) is a small, simple building, usually for storage, such as a garden shed or tool shed.

      Example:

      • “The tools are kept in the shed.”

      2) Grammar notes (important)

      Verb forms of “shed” are irregular but simple:

      • Present: shed
      • Past: shed
      • Past participle: shed

      Examples:

      • “Trees shed leaves.”
      • “The tree shed its leaves last fall.”
      • “It has shed its leaves.”

      3) Typical science / biology contexts

      In science texts (like Science 10), shed usually means:

      • lose leaves (deciduous trees)
      • lose skin (reptiles)
      • lose fur/feathers (animals adapting to seasons)

      Example:

      • “Deciduous trees shed their leaves to conserve water.”

      4) Verb vs. noun — quick contrast

      | Form | Meaning | Example | | --------------- | -------------- | ----------------------- | | shed (verb) | lose naturally | “Snakes shed skin.” | | shed (noun) | small building | “A tool shed.” |


      5) Pronunciation

      • shed /ʃɛd/ Rhymes with “bed”.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“shed”的基本意思

      shed 既可以是动词,也可以是名词


      A)动词:shed

      shed 的意思是:自然脱落、脱去、摆脱,通常指一个自然或周期性过程

      常见用法:

      • 植物: 树木在秋天 落叶
      • 动物:蜕皮,狗 掉毛
      • 抽象含义: 摆脱恐惧、流泪

      例句:

      • “落叶树在秋天会 shed 叶子。”

      👉 核心含义:自然地失去或去掉某物


      B)名词:shed

      shed(名词)指 小棚子 / 储物间,常用于放工具或杂物。

      例句:

      • “工具放在小棚里。”

      2)语法重点

      shed 的动词三种形式相同:

      • 现在时:shed
      • 过去时:shed
      • 过去分词:shed

      例:

      • 它去年 shed 了叶子。
      • 它已经 shed 了叶子。

      3)科学语境中的常见用法

      在生物或地理课中,shed 常用于说明适应环境

      • 落叶树 落叶 来减少水分流失
      • 爬行动物 蜕皮 以生长
      • 动物 换毛 适应季节变化

      4)发音

      • shed /ʃed/ 中文近似读作:“谢德”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence where shed appears (for example, “deciduous trees shed their leaves”), and I’ll explain exact meaning + exam-relevant reasoning in both English and Chinese.

    19. mosses

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “mosses” literally means

      Mosses is the plural noun of moss. It refers to a group of small, non-vascular plants (called bryophytes) that do not have true roots, stems, or leaves and do not produce flowers or seeds.

      In simple terms: mosses = tiny green plants that grow in damp places and reproduce by spores.


      2) Key characteristics of mosses

      Mosses share several defining features:

      • Non-vascular: No xylem or phloem → water moves by diffusion
      • No true roots: They have rhizoids (hair-like structures) for anchoring, not absorption
      • Spores, not seeds: Reproduce via spores in capsules
      • Small size: Usually form soft mats or carpets
      • Moisture-dependent: Fertilization requires water

      3) Life cycle (very important for science courses)

      Mosses show alternation of generations, but unlike ferns:

      • The gametophyte (green, leafy part) is the dominant stage
      • The sporophyte (stalk + capsule) grows attached to the gametophyte
      • Water is required for sperm to reach the egg

      This explains why mosses thrive in wet, shady environments.


      4) Mosses vs. ferns vs. seed plants

      | Feature | Mosses | Ferns | Seed plants | | --------------- | ----------- | ---------- | ----------- | | Vascular tissue | ❌ No | ✅ Yes | ✅ Yes | | Seeds | ❌ No | ❌ No | ✅ Yes | | Flowers | ❌ No | ❌ No | ✅ (many) | | Dominant stage | Gametophyte | Sporophyte | Sporophyte | | Size | Very small | Medium | Large |


      5) Ecological importance

      Mosses play major roles in ecosystems:

      • Soil formation on bare rock
      • Moisture retention in forests
      • Prevent erosion
      • Early colonizers (pioneer species)
      • Provide habitat for tiny organisms

      6) How “mosses” might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “mosses”, it is most likely:

      • a heading in a biology text,
      • a plant category (e.g., mosses, ferns, conifers),
      • a label under an image or diagram,
      • or a vocabulary term in Science 10.

      7) Pronunciation

      • moss /mɔːs/
      • mosses /ˈmɔː.sɪz/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“mosses”的基本意思

      mossesmoss(苔藓) 的复数形式,指 苔藓植物。 苔藓属于 非维管植物不开花、不结种子,通过 孢子繁殖

      简单说: mosses = 苔藓植物


      2)苔藓的主要特征

      • 非维管植物:没有真正的输导组织
      • 没有真根:只有 假根(rhizoids),主要用于固定
      • 孢子繁殖:孢子囊中产生孢子
      • 体型很小:常形成柔软的“苔藓毯”
      • 依赖水环境:受精必须有水

      3)生活史(考试重点)

      苔藓也有 世代交替,但特点是:

      • 配子体(绿色主体)是 显性世代
      • 孢子体 依附在配子体上
      • 精子游动需要水

      因此苔藓多见于 阴湿环境


      4)苔藓 vs 蕨类 vs 种子植物(对比)

      | 特点 | 苔藓 | 蕨类 | 种子植物 | | ---- | --- | --- | ---- | | 输导组织 | ❌ | ✅ | ✅ | | 种子 | ❌ | ❌ | ✅ | | 花 | ❌ | ❌ | ✅ | | 显性世代 | 配子体 | 孢子体 | 孢子体 | | 体型 | 很小 | 中等 | 大 |


      5)生态作用

      苔藓在生态系统中非常重要:

      • 促进土壤形成
      • 保持水分
      • 防止水土流失
      • 先锋植物
      • 为微小生物提供栖息地

      6)单独出现 “mosses” 的含义

      如果只看到 mosses,通常表示:

      • 生物学章节标题
      • 植物分类名称
      • 图片或图表说明
      • 科学词汇

      7)发音

      • mosses /ˈmɒ.sɪz/ 中文可近似读作:“莫西兹”

      If you’d like, you can paste the full sentence, diagram, or exam question where mosses appears, and I’ll explain exact meaning, comparison points, and test-relevant details in both English and Chinese.

    20. ferns

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “ferns” literally means

      Ferns is the plural noun of fern. It refers to non-flowering, seedless plants that reproduce using spores rather than seeds.

      In simple terms: ferns = leafy plants that do not produce flowers or seeds.


      2) Key characteristics of ferns

      Ferns are easy to recognize because they share several features:

      • Fronds: Their leaves are called fronds, often divided into many small leaflets.
      • No flowers or seeds: Ferns do not bloom and do not make seeds.
      • Spores: They reproduce using tiny spores, usually found on the underside of fronds.
      • Vascular plants: They have roots, stems, and leaves (unlike mosses).
      • Moist habitats: Many ferns prefer shady, damp environments.

      3) Life cycle (important for science courses)

      Ferns have a two-stage life cycle called alternation of generations:

      1. Sporophyte (the familiar leafy plant) produces spores
      2. Spores grow into a small gametophyte, which produces sex cells
      3. Fertilization requires water, which is why ferns thrive in moist areas

      4) Common examples of ferns

      • Bracken fern
      • Sword fern (very common in British Columbia)
      • Maidenhair fern
      • Tree ferns (in warmer climates)

      5) How the word might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “ferns”, it likely functions as:

      • a topic heading in a biology text,
      • a category label (e.g., mosses, ferns, conifers),
      • a vocabulary term in science,
      • or a list item describing vegetation.

      6) Pronunciation

      • fern /fɝːn/
      • ferns /fɝːnz/

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“ferns”的基本意思

      fernsfern(蕨类植物) 的复数形式,指 蕨类植物。 蕨类植物是 不结果、不开花,而是通过 孢子繁殖 的植物。

      简单说: ferns = 蕨类植物


      2)蕨类植物的主要特征

      • 叶片(fronds):蕨类的叶通常呈羽状分裂
      • 无花无种子:不产生花和种子
      • 孢子繁殖:孢子多生长在叶片背面
      • 维管植物:有根、茎、叶
      • 喜阴湿环境:多见于森林、溪边

      3)生活史(考试常考点)

      蕨类植物具有 世代交替

      1. 孢子体(我们常看到的蕨类)产生孢子
      2. 孢子发育成 配子体
      3. 受精需要 水环境

      因此蕨类常见于潮湿地区。


      4)常见蕨类

      • 蕨菜
      • 剑蕨(BC 非常常见)
      • 铁线蕨
      • 树蕨

      5)单独出现 “ferns” 的含义

      如果只看到一个词 ferns,通常是:

      • 标题 / 分类名
      • 科学课词汇
      • 植物列表中的一项(如 mosses, ferns, conifers)

      6)发音

      • ferns 读作 /fɜːrnz/ 中文可近似读作:“芬兹”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or diagram (for example from Science 10 or a forest ecosystem passage), and I’ll explain exact meaning, function, and exam-relevant points in both English and Chinese.

    21. birch

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “birch” literally means

      Birch is a noun referring to a type of deciduous tree in the genus Betula. Birch trees are well known for their light-colored (often white or silvery) bark and are common in cool and temperate regions, including Canada.

      In simple terms: birch = a deciduous tree with pale bark that sheds its leaves seasonally.


      2) Key characteristics of birch trees

      • Bark: Thin, smooth, and often white or silver, peeling in papery layers
      • Leaves: Small to medium, oval with serrated edges
      • Type: Deciduous (leaves fall in autumn)
      • Growth: Often among the first trees to grow after fires or disturbances (pioneer species)

      3) Common types of birch

      • Paper birch (very common in Canada)
      • Yellow birch
      • Silver birch
      • River birch

      Each type shares the same general features but differs slightly in bark color and habitat.


      4) Ecological importance

      Birch trees:

      • Improve soil quality
      • Provide food and shelter for wildlife
      • Play an important role in forest regeneration

      5) Other meanings & uses

      • Birch wood: strong yet flexible; used in furniture, plywood, and tools
      • Birch bark: traditionally used by Indigenous peoples for canoes, containers, and coverings
      • Birch sap: sometimes tapped for syrup or drinks

      6) How “birch” may be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “birch”, it most likely functions as:

      • a topic heading (a section about birch trees),
      • a label or caption under an image,
      • a vocabulary term in science or geography,
      • or an item in a list (e.g., spruce, birch, maple).

      7) Pronunciation

      • birch /bɝːtʃ/ (rhymes with “church”)

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“birch”的基本意思

      birch 是一个名词,指 桦树(桦木),属于 桦木属(Betula),是一种常见的 落叶乔木,在加拿大非常普遍。

      简单说: birch = 桦树,一种树皮浅色、会季节性落叶的树


      2)桦树的主要特征

      • 树皮: 白色或银白色,薄而可剥落
      • 叶子: 卵形,边缘呈锯齿状
      • 类型: 落叶树
      • 生长特性: 常作为 先锋树种,在森林更新中很重要

      3)常见桦树种类

      • 白桦(纸皮桦)
      • 黄桦
      • 银桦
      • 河桦

      4)生态与文化价值

      • 改善土壤环境
      • 为动物提供食物和栖息地
      • 桦树皮在加拿大原住民文化中用途广泛(如独木舟、容器)

      5)“birch” 单独出现的含义

      如果只看到一个词 birch,通常是:

      • 标题 / 分类名称
      • 图片说明
      • 科学或地理词汇
      • 列表中的一项(如 spruce, birch, maple)

      6)发音

      • birch /bɜːtʃ/ 中文可近似读作:“伯奇 / 博奇”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or paragraph where birch appears (for example, a Science 10 reading about Canadian forests), and I’ll explain the exact meaning and exam-relevant nuance in both English and Chinese.

    22. Reptiles

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “Reptiles” literally means

      Reptiles is the plural noun referring to animals in the class Reptilia. They are cold-blooded (ectothermic) vertebrates that typically have dry, scaly skin and reproduce mainly by laying eggs (with some exceptions).

      In simple terms: reptiles = snakes, lizards, turtles, crocodiles, and their relatives.


      2) Core characteristics of reptiles

      Most reptiles share these features:

      • Ectothermic (“cold-blooded”): body temperature depends on the environment
      • Scaly or plated skin: reduces water loss and offers protection
      • Lungs for breathing: all reptiles breathe air
      • Amniotic eggs: eggs with protective membranes (often leathery shells)
      • Internal fertilization

      3) Major groups of reptiles

      • Snakes (e.g., vipers, pythons)
      • Lizards (e.g., geckos, iguanas)
      • Turtles & tortoises (shell-bearing reptiles)
      • Crocodilians (crocodiles, alligators, caimans)

      4) Reptiles vs. amphibians (common confusion)

      | Feature | Reptiles | Amphibians | | ---------- | ----------------- | ----------------------------- | | Skin | Dry, scaly | Moist, smooth | | Eggs | On land (usually) | In water | | Body temp | Cold-blooded | Cold-blooded | | Life cycle | No larval stage | Metamorphosis (e.g., tadpole) |


      5) Habitats & behavior

      Reptiles live on every continent except Antarctica, from deserts to forests to wetlands. Many bask in the sun to warm up, and some hibernate or brumate in cold seasons.


      6) How the word might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “Reptiles”, it most likely functions as:

      • a heading or topic label (e.g., a biology section),
      • a category name in a list or chart,
      • a caption under images.

      7) Pronunciation

      • reptiles /ˈrɛp.taɪlz/ Sounds like “REP-tiles”.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“Reptiles”的基本意思

      Reptiles爬行动物 的复数形式,指 爬行动物纲(Reptilia) 的动物。 它们是 变温动物,皮肤通常 干燥、有鳞片,大多数 产卵繁殖

      简单说: reptiles = 蛇、蜥蜴、龟、鳄鱼等动物


      2)爬行动物的典型特征

      • 变温动物(依靠环境调节体温)
      • 鳞片或甲片皮肤(防止水分流失)
      • 用肺呼吸
      • 羊膜卵(适应陆地生活)
      • 体内受精

      3)主要类型

      • 蛇类
      • 蜥蜴类
      • 龟鳖类(乌龟、陆龟)
      • 鳄形目(鳄鱼、短吻鳄)

      4)爬行动物 vs 两栖动物(常见对比)

      | 特征 | 爬行动物 | 两栖动物 | | ---- | ----- | ----- | | 皮肤 | 干燥、有鳞 | 湿润、光滑 | | 产卵 | 多在陆地 | 多在水中 | | 生命周期 | 无变态 | 有变态 | | 呼吸 | 肺 | 幼体可用鳃 |


      5)栖息地与行为

      爬行动物分布广泛(除南极洲外),常通过 晒太阳 来升高体温,寒冷季节可能进入 冬眠/蛰伏(brumation)


      6)单独出现 “Reptiles” 的含义

      如果只看到一个词 Reptiles,通常是:

      • 标题/分类名称
      • 课程或课本中的章节名
      • 图表或图片说明

      7)发音

      • reptiles 读作 /ˈrɛp.taɪlz/ 可近似读成 “雷普-泰尔兹”

      If you want, paste the full sentence or paragraph where Reptiles appears (e.g., a Science 10 text or exam question), and I’ll explain its exact meaning and role in that context in both English and Chinese.

    23. camouflages

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “camouflages” literally means

      Camouflages is the third-person singular form of the verb camouflage.

      • camouflage (verb): to hide or disguise something by making it blend in with its surroundings
      • camouflages = “hides / disguises” (used with he / she / it)

      Example:

      • “The white fur camouflages the animal in snow.”

      2) Core idea: blending in

      To camouflage means reducing visibility by matching:

      • color (white in snow, green in leaves),
      • pattern (spots, stripes, mottling),
      • shape or texture (breaking up outlines),
      • behavior (staying still, moving slowly).

      So camouflages emphasizes the function: something actively makes another thing harder to see.


      3) Common contexts where “camouflages” is used

      a) Biology / ecology

      • “Its brown fur camouflages it against tree bark.”
      • Used to explain predator avoidance or hunting advantage.

      b) Military / equipment

      • “The netting camouflages the vehicle.”
      • Means concealment from visual detection.

      c) Figurative / abstract use

      • “Humor camouflages his insecurity.”
      • Meaning: hides the true nature of something.

      4) Grammar notes

      • Part of speech: verb
      • Base form: camouflage
      • Third-person singular: camouflages
      • Past tense: camouflaged
      • Present participle: camouflaging

      Sentence pattern:

      Subject + camouflages + object + (environment)

      Example:

      • “The waxy coating camouflages the leaf.”

      5) Pronunciation

      • camouflages /ˈkæm.ə.flɑːʒɪz/ or /ˈkæm.ə.flɑːdʒɪz/ Sounds like: KAM-uh-flah-jiz

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“camouflages”的基本意思

      camouflages 是动词 camouflage(伪装)第三人称单数形式

      意思是: 通过与环境融为一体来隐藏、掩护、伪装某物 常译为:伪装、掩盖、使不易被发现

      例句:

      • “白色的毛发在雪地中 伪装了 它。”

      2)核心含义:不被发现

      “camouflages” 强调 功能性隐藏,方式包括:

      • 颜色匹配(雪地白、森林绿)
      • 花纹破坏轮廓
      • 外形与环境相似
      • 静止或缓慢行为

      本质是: 👉 让观察者“看不出来”


      3)常见使用场景

      ① 生物 / 自然科学

      • “斑点皮毛 伪装 它在草丛中。”
      • 用来解释 躲避天敌捕食优势

      ② 军事 / 技术

      • “迷彩网 掩盖 了设备。”

      ③ 比喻用法

      • “笑容 掩盖 了他的紧张。” → 指 表象掩盖真实情况

      4)语法说明

      • 词性: 动词
      • 原形: camouflage
      • 第三人称单数: camouflages
      • 过去式: camouflaged

      常见结构:

      主语 + camouflages + 宾语 + 环境

      例:

      • “蜡质表面 camouflages 叶片。”

      5)发音

      • camouflages 读作近似:“卡姆-弗拉-吉兹”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or paragraph where camouflages appears (for example, a biology passage describing animals like caribou or spruce forests), and I’ll explain exact meaning, grammar role, and nuance in both English and Chinese.

    24. waxy

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “waxy” literally means

      Waxy is an adjective meaning like wax or covered with wax. It describes something that has the look, feel, or properties of wax—for example, being smooth, slightly shiny, slippery, or water-repellent.

      In simple terms: waxy = having a wax-like surface or quality.


      2) Common physical characteristics

      When something is described as waxy, it often has one or more of these traits:

      • Smooth / slick to the touch
      • Slightly shiny or dull-glossy (not metallic shine)
      • Water-resistant (water beads up)
      • Soft or pliable (in some contexts)

      3) Common contexts where “waxy” is used

      a) Biology & plants

      • Many leaves have a waxy coating (cuticle) that reduces water loss.

      • “The leaves are waxy, helping the plant survive dry conditions.”

      b) Food & materials

      • Waxy apples, waxy corn, waxy chocolate bloom (appearance/texture)
      • Waxy paper (paper coated with wax)

      c) Medicine & appearance

      • Waxy skin can describe an unnaturally smooth, pale, or stiff look (often clinical).
      • Waxy complexion suggests lack of vitality or stiffness.

      d) Figurative / descriptive language

      • Waxy smile or waxy expression → looks fixed, artificial, or emotionless, like a wax figure.

      4) Grammar notes

      • Part of speech: adjective
      • Comparatives: waxier / waxiest
      • Related noun: wax
      • Related adjective: waxen (more literary)

      Example sentences:

      • “The plant has waxy leaves.”
      • “His face looked waxy and pale.”
      • “Water rolled off the waxy surface.”

      5) Pronunciation


      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“waxy”的基本意思

      waxy 是一个形容词,意思是 像蜡一样的 / 有蜡质的 / 覆盖着蜡的。 常用来形容表面或外观 光滑、略有光泽、防水、滑溜

      简单说: waxy = 蜡状的、蜡质的


      2)常见物理特征

      被形容为 waxy 的东西,通常具有:

      • 表面光滑
      • 略微发亮(柔光,不刺眼)
      • 不易被水浸湿
      • 触感略滑

      3)常见使用场景

      ① 生物 / 植物

      • 许多植物叶片有 蜡质层,用于减少水分蒸发。

      • “这种植物的叶子是 蜡质的。”

      ② 食物 / 材料

      • 蜡质水果(外皮发亮)
      • 蜡纸(waxy paper)

      ③ 医学 / 外貌描写

      • 蜡样皮肤:皮肤显得异常光滑、苍白、僵硬
      • 常用于病理或文学描写

      ④ 比喻 / 文学用法

      • waxy smile / waxy face → 表情 僵硬、不自然、像蜡像一样

      4)语法与词形

      • 词性: 形容词
      • 比较级: waxier(更蜡质的)
      • 最高级: waxiest(最蜡质的)
      • 相关词:

      • wax(蜡,名词)

      • waxen(文学用,蜡状的)

      例句:

      • 叶子表面很 蜡质
      • 他的脸色显得 蜡样苍白

      5)发音

      • waxy /ˈwæk.si/ 中文可近似读作 “瓦克西”

      If you’d like, you can paste the full sentence or passage where waxy appears (science text, poem, exam question, etc.), and I’ll explain the exact meaning and nuance in that context in both English and Chinese.

    25. spruce

      English (thorough explanation)

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      1) What “spruce” literally means

      Spruce is a noun referring to a type of evergreen coniferous tree in the genus Picea. Spruce trees are common in cold and temperate regions, especially across Canada, Alaska, Scandinavia, and northern Europe.

      In simple terms: spruce = a tall evergreen tree with sharp needles and hanging cones.


      2) Key characteristics of spruce trees

      • Needles: Short, stiff, and sharp, usually square in cross-section. They grow one by one directly from the branch.
      • Cones: Long and hang downward (unlike fir cones, which stand upright).
      • Shape: Often tall and cone-shaped, forming dense forests.
      • Smell: Many spruces have a fresh, resinous scent.

      3) Spruce vs. fir vs. pine (common confusion)

      | Tree | Needles | Cones | Texture | | ---------- | --------------------- | ------------- | --------------- | | Spruce | Sharp, single needles | Hang down | Rough branches | | Fir | Flat, soft needles | Stand upright | Smooth branches | | Pine | Needles in bundles | Hang down | Long needles |

      This distinction is very common in biology and forestry texts.


      4) Other meanings of “spruce” (adjective & verb)

      Besides the tree, spruce can also be used as:

      • Adjective: spruce = neat, tidy, smart-looking

      • “He looks very spruce in his uniform.”

      • Verb (phrasal): spruce up = clean, decorate, or improve appearance

      • “They spruced up the classroom.”

      These meanings come from an older sense of “spruce” meaning lively or elegant.


      5) How “spruce” might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “spruce” by itself (like your example), it most likely functions as:

      • a label or heading (e.g., a section about spruce trees),
      • a picture caption,
      • a vocabulary item,
      • or a list entry (e.g., spruce, pine, fir).

      6) Pronunciation

      • spruce /spruːs/ Rhymes with “loose”.

      中文(详细解释)

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      1)“spruce”的基本意思

      spruce 是一个名词,指 云杉,一种常见的 常绿针叶树,属于 云杉属(Picea)。 在加拿大和北欧地区非常常见。

      简单来说: spruce = 云杉,一种高大的常绿针叶树


      2)云杉的主要特征

      • 针叶: 短、硬、尖,单根长在枝条上(摸起来会扎手)。
      • 球果: 细长,下垂生长(这是区分云杉和冷杉的重要特征)。
      • 外形: 树形呈 尖塔状/圆锥形
      • 气味: 常有清新的松脂味。

      3)云杉 vs 冷杉 vs 松树(常见区分)

      | 树种 | 针叶 | 球果 | 手感 | | -------------- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | 云杉(spruce) | 尖、单根 | 下垂 | 枝条粗糙 | | 冷杉(fir) | 扁平柔软 | 向上直立 | 枝条光滑 | | 松树(pine) | 成束 | 下垂 | 针叶较长 |


      4)“spruce”的引申含义

      除了“云杉”,spruce 还有引申用法:

      • 形容词: spruce = 整洁的、精神的

      • 他穿着制服,看起来很 精神

      • 短语动词: spruce up = 收拾、装饰、打扮一下

      • 把教室 收拾得更好看一些


      5)单独出现 “spruce” 的可能含义

      如果只看到一个词 spruce,通常是:

      • 标题/分类名称
      • 图片说明
      • 词汇表条目
      • 自然类清单中的一项

      6)发音

      • spruce 读作 /spruːs/ 中文可近似读作 “斯普鲁斯”

      If you want, you can paste the full sentence or surrounding paragraph (for example from a poem, biology text, or exam question), and I’ll explain exact meaning, tone, and implication in both English and Chinese.

    26. Caribou

      English (thorough explanation)

      1) What “Caribou” literally means

      Caribou is the common name for a large, hoofed, deer-like animal in the species Rangifer tarandus. In many parts of the world, the same species is called reindeer.

      So in simple terms: Caribou = a large northern deer, closely related to (and often the same as) reindeer.

      2) Caribou vs. reindeer (why two names?)

      • “Caribou” is used mainly in North America, especially Canada and Alaska, and often for wild populations.
      • “Reindeer” is used more in Europe and Asia, and it often refers to domesticated (herded) populations—though biologically they’re the same species.

      Think of it like a naming convention:

      • Caribou (North American / wild context)
      • Reindeer (Eurasian / domesticated or general context)

      3) Key features (what makes a caribou distinctive)

      • Antlers: Both males and females can grow antlers (this is unusual among deer).
      • Hooves: Wide hooves act like snowshoes, helping them walk on snow and soft ground.
      • Cold adaptation: Thick fur and an efficient metabolism help them survive Arctic/subarctic winters.
      • Migration: Many populations travel in large seasonal migrations.

      4) Grammar: singular/plural form

      Caribou is commonly used as both singular and plural:

      • “I saw a caribou.” (one)
      • “I saw three caribou.” (more than one)

      Sometimes you’ll see caribous, but caribou is more common.

      5) How the word might be used if it appears alone

      If the excerpt is just “Caribou” by itself (like your example), it most likely serves as:

      • a topic heading (a section about the animal),
      • a label (e.g., a picture caption),
      • a category name (wildlife list), or
      • a symbolic reference (e.g., representing the North, wilderness, migration, resilience).

      6) Pronunciation

      • CARE-ih-boo (common English pronunciation) IPA often shown as /ˈkærɪbuː/

      中文(详细解释)

      1)“Caribou”的基本意思

      Caribou 指一种生活在寒带/亚寒带的大型鹿科动物,中文常译为: 北美驯鹿 / 北美驯鹿(野生型) / 卡里布驯鹿(不同资料翻译略有差异)

      它和 “reindeer(驯鹿)” 在生物学上通常是 同一种动物(同一物种:Rangifer tarandus,只是不同地区习惯叫法不同。

      2)Caribou 和 Reindeer 的区别(名字上的区别)

      • Caribou:多用于 北美语境(加拿大、阿拉斯加等),常指 野生种群
      • Reindeer:多用于 欧洲/亚洲语境,也常指 被人类驯养、放牧的驯鹿

      简单记忆:

      • 北美野外常叫 caribou
      • 欧亚与驯养常叫 reindeer

      3)典型特征(为什么它很“特别”)

      • 雌雄都有角:很多鹿只有雄鹿长角,但驯鹿/Caribou 的 雌性也常长角
      • 蹄子宽大:像“雪鞋”一样,适合走雪地和沼泽。
      • 耐寒结构:毛厚、保温强,适应极冷环境。
      • 迁徙行为:许多种群会进行 大规模季节性迁徙

      4)语法:单复数

      英语里 caribou 常同时当 单数和复数

      • one caribou(一只)
      • three caribou(三只)

      也可能看到 caribous,但更常见还是 caribou

      5)单独出现 “Caribou” 可能表示什么

      如果只出现一个词 Caribou(没有句子),它很可能是:

      • 标题/小标题(这一段讲“驯鹿/北美驯鹿”)
      • 图片说明(图下写 Caribou)
      • 清单标签(野生动物列表里的一项)
      • 象征意义(北境、荒野、迁徙、坚韧等意象)

      6)发音

      大致读作:“开-ri-bu”(CARE-ih-boo)


      If you paste the sentence or paragraph around “Caribou”, I can explain the exact meaning, including whether it’s literal (the animal) or symbolic/metaphorical in that context, in both English and Chinese.

    27. hares

      English (thorough explanation)

      1) What “hares” literally means

      Hares is the plural of hare — a type of wild mammal that looks similar to a rabbit. So the excerpt is simply naming the animal: “hares” = more than one hare.

      2) How a hare is different from a rabbit (common confusion)

      People often mix up hares and rabbits, but they’re not the same animal.

      • Body & ears: Hares are usually larger, with longer ears (often with black tips) and longer legs.
      • Lifestyle: Hares tend to live above ground, often resting in shallow hollows called forms, rather than living in deep burrows like many rabbits.
      • Speed & behavior: Hares are typically faster and rely on running and zig-zagging to escape predators.
      • Babies:

      • Baby hares (called leverets) are born with fur and eyes open, and can move soon after birth.

      • Baby rabbits (kits/kittens) are often born hairless and blind, needing more time in the nest.

      3) How the word is used in writing

      Depending on the context, “hares” may do different jobs in a sentence:

      • As a subject: “Hares run fast.”
      • As an object: “Foxes hunt hares.”
      • As a category label (like a dictionary entry or heading): “Hares” (just naming the topic)

      Since your excerpt is only one word with no sentence, it most likely functions as a label/title or a standalone noun.

      4) Pronunciation

      • hare /her/ (rhymes with “air”)
      • hares /herz/

      中文(详细解释)

      1)“hares”的基本意思

      hareshare(野兔)复数形式,表示 不止一只野兔。 所以这段摘录只有一个词,本身就是在说:“野兔们 / 多只野兔”

      2)野兔(hare)和家兔/兔子(rabbit)的区别(容易混淆点)

      很多人会把 hare 和 rabbit 都叫“兔子”,但它们在生物学和习性上不同:

      • 体型与耳朵: 野兔通常 更大耳朵更长(常见 耳尖发黑),腿更长
      • 生活方式: 野兔多在 地表活动,休息时常躲在浅浅的凹坑(类似“卧坑”),不像很多兔子那样打深洞穴。
      • 逃生方式: 野兔一般 跑得更快,靠高速奔跑、急转弯来躲避捕食者。
      • 幼崽差异:

      • 野兔幼崽(leveret)出生时通常 有毛、睁眼、较快能活动

      • 兔子幼崽往往 无毛、闭眼,更依赖巢穴照顾。

      3)在文章里的常见用法

      因为你给的摘录只有一个词,没有句子,所以它可能是:

      • 标题/小标题:比如一节内容讲“野兔”
      • 词条/分类标签:像字典或生物分类里直接写 “hares”

      如果放进句子里,它也可以当名词使用:

      • 作主语:Hares are fast.(野兔跑得快。)
      • 作宾语:Predators hunt hares.(捕食者捕猎野兔。)

      4)发音提示

      • hare 约等于“海尔/air”那种韵母(英语 /her/)
      • hares = hare + s,读 /herz/(结尾是 z 的音)

      If you tell me where this word appears (a sentence, poem, biology text, idiom like “Mad as a March hare,” etc.), I can explain the exact meaning in that context in both languages.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      We would like to proceed with this paper as a Version of Record but we will correct the mistake that we made in the Key resources table. As the reviewer noted we had added the wrong guide RNA sequence here. We are super thankful to the reviewer and apologize for the mistake.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment 

      This important study identifies a new key factor in orchestrating the process of glial wrapping of axons in Drosophila wandering larvae. The evidence supporting the claims of the authors is convincing and the EM studies are of outstanding quality.

      We are thankful for this kind and very positive judgment.

      However, the quantification of the wrapping index, the role of Htl/Uif/Notch signaling in differentiation vs growth/wrapping, and the mechanism of how Uif "stabilizes" a specific membrane domain capable of interacting with specific axons might require further clarification or discussion.

      This is now addressed

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      A central function of glial cells is the ensheathment of axons. Wrapping of larger-diameter axons involves myelin-forming glial classes (such as oligodendrocytes), whereas smaller axons are covered by non-myelin-forming glial processes (such as olfactory ensheathing glia). While we have some insights into the underlying molecular mechanisms orchestrating myelination, our understanding of the signaling pathways at work in non-myelinating glia remains limited. As non-myelinating glial ensheathment of axons is highly conserved in both vertebrates and invertebrates, the nervous system of Drosophila melanogaster, and in particular the larval peripheral nerves, have emerged as a powerful model to elucidate the regulation of axon ensheathment by a class of glia called wrapping glia. Using this model, this study seeks to specifically address the question, as to which molecular mechanisms contribute to the regulation of the extent of glial ensheathment focusing on the interaction of wrapping glia with axons. 

      Strengths and Weaknesses:

      For this purpose, the study combines state-of-the-art genetic approaches with high-resolution imaging, including classic electron microscopy. The genetic methods involve RNAi-mediated knockdown, acute Crispr-Cas9 knock-outs, and genetic epistasis approaches to manipulate gene function with the help of cell-type specific drivers. The successful use of acute Crispr-Cas9 mediated knockout tools (which required the generation of new genetic reagents for this study) will be of general interest to the Drosophila community. 

      The authors set out to identify new molecular determinants mediating the extent of axon wrapping in the peripheral nerves of third-instar wandering Drosophila larvae. They could show that over-expressing a constitutive-active version of the Fibroblast growth factor receptor Heartless (Htl) causes an increase in wrapping glial branching, leading to the formation of swellings in nerves close to the cell body (named bulges). To identify new determinants involved in axon wrapping acting downstream of Htl, the authors next conducted an impressive large-scale genetic interaction screen (which has become rare, but remains a very powerful approach), and identified Uninflatable (Uif) in this way. Uif is a large single-pass transmembrane protein that contains a whole series of extracellular domains, including Epidermal growth factor-like domains. Linking this protein to glial branch formation is novel, as it has so far been mostly studied in the context of tracheal maturation and growth. Intriguingly, a knock-down or knock-out of uif reduces branch complexity and also suppresses htl over-expression defects. Importantly, uif over-expression causes the formation of excessive membrane stacks. Together these observations are in in line with the notion that htl may act upstream of uif. 

      Further epistasis experiments using this model implicated also the Notch signaling pathway as a crucial regulator of glial wrapping: reduction in Notch signaling reduces wrapping, whereas over-activation of the pathway increases axonal wrapping (but does not cause the formation of bulges). Importantly, defects caused by the over-expression of uif can be suppressed by activated Notch signaling. Knock-down experiments in neurons suggest further that neither Delta nor Serrate act as neuronal ligands to activate Notch signaling in wrapping glia, whereas knock-down of Contactin, a GPI anchored Immunoglobulin domain-containing protein led to reduced axon wrapping by glia, and thus could act as an activating ligand in this context. 

      Based on these results the authors put forward a model proposing that Uif normally suppresses Notch signaling, and that activation of Notch by Contactin leads to suppression of Htl, to trigger the ensheathment of axons. While these are intriguing propositions, future experiments would need to conclusively address whether and how Uif could "stabilize" a specific membrane domain capable of interacting with specific axons.

      We absolutely agree with the reviewer that it would be fantastic to understand whether and how Uif could stabilize specific membrane domains that are capable of interacting with axons. To address this we need to be able to label such membrane domains and unfortunately we still cannot do so. We analyzed the distribution of PIP2/PIP3 but failed to detect any differences. Thus we still lack wrapping glial membrane markers that are able to label specific compartments.

      Moreover, to obtain evidence for Uif suppression by Notch to inhibit "precocious" axon wrapping and for a "gradual increase" of Notch signaling that silences uif and htl, (1) reporters for N and Htl signaling in larvae, (2) monitoring of different stages at a time point when branch extension begins, and (3) a reagent enabling to visualize Uif expression could be important next tools/approaches. Considering the qualitatively different phenotypes of reduced branching, compared to excessive membrane stacks close to cell bodies, it would perhaps be worthwhile to explore more deeply how membrane formation in wrapping glia is orchestrated at the subcellular level by Uif.

      In the revised version of the manuscript we have now included the use of Notch and RTK-signaling reporters.

      (1) reporters for N and Htl signaling in larvae,

      We had already employed the classic reporter generated by the Bray lab: Gbe-Su(H)-lacZ. This unfortunately failed to detect any activity in larval wrapping glia nuclei but was able to detect Notch activity in the adult wrapping glia (Figure S5C,F).

      We did, as requested, the analysis of a RTK signaling reporter.  The activity of sty-lacZ that we had previously characterized in the lab (Sieglitz et al., 2013) increases by 22% when Notch is silenced. Given the normal distribution of the data points, this shows a trend which, however, is not in the significance range. We have not included this in the paper, but would be happy to do so, if requested.

      Author response image 1.

       

      (2) monitoring of different stages at a time point when branch extension begins,

      The reviewer asks for an important question; however, this is extremely difficult to tackle experimentally. It would require a detailed electron microscopic analysis of early larval stages which cannot be done in a reasonable amount of time. We have however added additional information on wrapping glia growth summarizing recently published work from the lab (Kautzmann et al., 2025).

      (3) a reagent enabling to visualize Uif expression could be important next tools/approaches.

      The final comment of the reviewer also addresses an extremely relevant and important issue. We employed antibodies generated by the lab of R. Ward, but they did not allow detection of the protein in larval nerves. We also attempted to generate anti-Uif peptide antibodies but these antibodies unfortunately do not work in tissue. We are still trying to generate suitable reagents but for the current revision cannot offer any solution.

      Lastly, we agree with the reviewer that it would be worthwhile to explore how Uif controls membrane formation at the subcellular level. This, however, is a completely new project and will require the identification of the binding partners of Uif in wrapping glia to start working on a link between Uif and membrane extension. The reduced branching phenotype might well be a direct consequence of excessive membrane formation as it likely blocks recourses needed for efficient growth of glial processes.

      Finally, in light of the importance of correct ensheathment of axons by glia for neuronal function, this study will be of general interest to the glial biology community. 

      We are very grateful for this very positive comment.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      The FGF receptor Heartless has previously been implicated in Drosophila peripheral glial growth and axonal wrapping. Here, the authors perform a large-scale screen of over 2600 RNAi lines to find factors that control the downstream signaling in this process. They identify a transmembrane protein Uninflatable to be necessary for the formation of plasma membrane domains. They further find that a Uif regulatory target, Notch, is necessary for glial wrapping. Interestingly, additional evidence suggests Notch itself regulates uif and htl, suggesting a feedback system. Together, they propose that Uif functions as a "switch" to regulate the balance between glial growl and wrapping of axons. 

      Little is known about how glial cell properties are coordinated with axons, and the identification of Uif is a promising link to shed light on this orchestration. The manuscript is well-written, and the experiments are generally well-controlled. The EM studies in particular are of outstanding quality and really help to mechanistically dissect the consequences of Uif and Notch signaling in the regulation of glial processes. Together, this valuable study provides convincing evidence of a new player coordinating the interactions controlling the glial wrapping of axons.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) To be reproducible and understandable, it would be important to provide detailed information about crosses and genotypes, as reagents are currently listed individually and genotypes are provided in rather simplified versions. 

      We have added the requested information to the text.

      (2) Neurons are inherently resistant to RNAi-mediated knockdown and it thus may be necessary to introduce the over-expression of UAS-dcr2 when assessing neuronal requirements and to specifically exclude Delta or Serrate as ligands. 

      We agree with the reviewer and have repeated the knockdown experiments using UAS-dcr2 and obtained the same results. To use an RNAi independent approach we also employed sgRNA expression in the presence of Cas9. The neuron specific gene knockout also showed no glial wrapping phenotype. These results are now added to the manuscript.

      (3) Throughout the manuscript, the authors use the terms "growth" and "differentiation" referring to the extent of branch formation versus axon wrapping. However glial differentiation and growth could have different meanings (for instance, growth could implicate changes in cell size or numbers, while differentiation could refer to a change from an immature precursor-like state to a mature cell identity). It may thus be useful to replace these general terms with more specific ones. 

      This is a very good point. When we use the term “growth” we only infer on glial cell growth and thus, the increase in cell mass. Proliferation is excluded and this is now explicitly stated in the manuscript. The term “differentiation” is indeed difficult and therefore we changed it either directly addressing the morphology or to axon wrapping.

      (4) Page 4. "remake" fibers should be Remak fibers. 

      We have corrected this typo.

      (5) Page 5. "Heartless controls glial growth but does promote axonal wrapping", this sentence is not clear in its message because of the "but".

      We have corrected this sentence.

      (6) Generally, many gene names are used as abbreviations without introductions (e.g. Sos, Rl, Msk on page 7). These would require an introduction.

      All genetic elements are now introduced.

      (7) Page 8. When Cas9 is expressed ubiquitously ... It would be helpful to add how this is done (nsyb-Gal4, nrv2-Gal4, or another Gal4 driver are used to express UAS-Cas9, as the listed Gal4 drivers seem to be specific to neurons or glia?).

      This now added. We used the following genotype for ubiquitous knockout using the four different uif specific sgRNAs (UAS-uif<sup>sgRNA X</sup>): [w; UAS-Cas9/ Df(2L)ED438; da-Gal4 /UAS-uif<sup>sgRNA X</sup>]. We used the following genotype for a glial knockout in wrapping glia ([+/+; UAS-Cas9/+; nrv2-Gal4,UAS-CD8::mCherry/UAS-uif<sup>sgRNA X</sup>].

      We had previously shown that nrv2-Gal4 is a wrapping glia specific driver in the larval PNS (Kottmeier et al., 2020).

      Moreover, the authors mention that "This indicates that a putatively secreted version of Uif is not functional". This conclusion would need to be explained in detail.

      First, because it requires quite some detective work to understand the panels in Figure 1 on which this statement is based; second, since the acutely induced double-stranded breaks in the DNA and subsequent repair may cause variable defects, it may indeed be not certain what changes have been induced in each cell; and third considering that there is a putative cleavage site, would it be not be expected that the protein is not functional, when it is not cleaved, and there is no secreted extracellular part (unless the cleavage site is not required). The latter could probably only be addressed by rescue experiments with UAS transgenes with identified changes.

      We agree with the reviewer. The rescue experiments are unfortunately difficult, since even expression of a full length uif construct does not fully rescue the uif mutant phenotype (Loubéry et al., 2014). We therefore explained the conclusion taken from the different sgRNA knockout experiments better and also removed the statement that secreted Uif forms are non-functional.

      In the Star Method reagent table, it is not clear, why all 8 oligonucleotides are for "uif cleavage just before transmembrane domain" despite targeting different locations. 

      We are very sorry for this mistake and corrected it now. Thank you very much for spotting this.

      (8) Page 13. However, we expressed activated Notch,... the word "when" seems to be missing, and it would be helpful to specify how this was done (over-expression of N[ICD].

      We corrected it now accordingly.

      (9) To strengthen the point similarity of phenotypes caused by Htl pathway over-activation and Uif over-expression, it would be helpful to also show an EM electron micrograph of the former.

      We now added an extensive description of the phenotype caused by activated Heartless. This is shown as new Figure 2.

      (10) Figure 4C, the larval nerve seems to be younger, as many extracellular spaces between axons are detected.

      This perception is a misunderstanding and we are sorry for not explaining this better. The third instar larvae are all age matched. The particular specimen in Figure 4C shows some fixation artifacts that result in the loss of material. Importantly, however, membranes are not affected. Similar loss of material is also seen in Figure 6C. For further examples please see a study on nerve anatomy by (Kautzmann et al., 2025).

      (11) The model could be presented as a figure panel in the manuscript. To connect the recommendation section with the above public review, a step forward could be to adjust the model and the wording in the Result section and to move some of the less explored points and thoughts to the discussion.

      We are thankful for this advice and have moved an updated model figure to the end of the main text (now Figure 7).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Screen and the interest in Uif: Out of the ~62 genes that came out of the RNAi screen, why did the authors prioritize and focus on Uif? What were the other genes that came out of the screen, and did any of those impinge on Notch signaling? 

      We have now more thoroughly described the results of the screen.  We selected Uif as it was the only transmembrane // adhesion protein identified and given the findings that Uif decorate apical membrane domains in epithelial cells, we hoped to identify a protein specific for a similar membrane domain in wrapping glia.

      Notch as well as its downstream transcription factors were not included in the initial screen, and were only analyzed, once we had seen the contribution of Notch. Interestingly, here is one single hit in our screen linked to Notch signaling: Gp150. Here however, we have tested additional dsRNA expressing lines and were not able to reproduce the phenotype. This information is added to the discussion.

      The authors performed a large-scale screen of 2600 RNAi lines, it seems more details about what came out of the screen and why the focus on Uif would benefit the manuscript. 

      See above comment.

      Relatedly, there would be a discussion of the limitations of the screen, and that it was really a screen looking to modify a gain-of-function phenotype from the activated Htl allele; it seems a screen of this design may lead to artifacts that may not reflect endogenous signaling.

      We have now added a short paragraph on suppressor screens, employing gain of function alleles to the introduction.

      “In Drosophila, such suppressor screens have been used successfully many times (Macagno et al., 2014; Rebay et al., 2000; Therrien et al., 2000). Possibly, such screens also uncover genes that are not directly linked to the signaling pathway under study but this can be tested in further experiments. Our screen led to the unexpected identification of the large transmembrane protein Uninflatable, which in epithelial cells localizes to the apical plasma membrane. Loss of uninflatable suppresses the phenotype caused by activated RTK signaling. In addition, we find that uif knockdown and uif knockout larvae show impaired glial growth while an excess of Uninflatable leads to the formation of ectopic wrapping membrane processes that, however, fail to interact with axons. uninflatable is also known to inhibit Notch.  “

      (2) In general this study relies on RNAi knockdown, and is generally well controlled in using multiple RNAi lines giving the same phenotype, and also controlled for by tissue-specific gene knockout. However, there is little in the way of antibody staining to directly confirm the target of interest is lost/reduced, which would obviously strengthen the study. 

      Lacking the tools or ability to assess RNAi efficiency (qPCR, antibody staining), some conclusions need to be tempered. For example, in the experiments in Figure S6 regarding canonical Notch signaling, the authors do not find a phenotype by Delta or Serrate knockdown, but there are no experiments that show Delta or Serrate are lost. Thus, if the authors cannot directly test for RNAi efficiency, these conclusions should be tempered throughout the manuscript. 

      We agree with the reviewer and now provide information on the use of Dicer in our RNAi experiments and conducted new sgRNA/Cas9 experiments. In addition we tempered our wording stating that Dl and or Ser are still possible ligands.

      (3) More description is needed regarding how the authors are measuring and calculating the "wrapping index". In principle, the approach seems sound. However, are there cases where axons are "partially" wrapped of various magnitudes, and how are these cases treated in the analysis? Are there additional controls of previously characterized mutants to illustrate the dynamic range of the wrapping index in various conditions?

      This is now explained.

      Further, can the authors quantify the phenotypes in the axonal "bulges" in Figures 1, 3, and 5?

      This is a difficult question. Although we can easily quantify the number of bulges we cannot quantify the severity of the phenotype as this will require EM analysis. Sectioning nerves at a specific distance of the ventral nerve cord already requires very careful adjustments. Sectioning at the level of a bulge is way more difficult and it is not possible to get the number of sections needed to quantify the bulge phenotype.

      The fact is that all wrapping glial cells develop swellings (bulges) at the position of the nucleus. As there are in general three wrapping glial cells per segmental nerve, the number of bulges is three.

      (4) It seems difficult to clearly untangle the functions of Htl/Uif/Notch in differentiation itself vs subsequent steps in growth/wrapping. For example, if the differentiation steps are not properly coordinated, couldn't this give rise to some observed differences in growth or wrapping at later stages? I'm not sure of any obvious experiments to pursue here, but at least a brief discussion of these issues in the manuscript would be of use.

      We have discussed this in our discussion now more carefully. To discriminate the function of the three genes in either differentiation or in a stepwise mode of growth and differentiation.

      When comparing the different loss of function phenotypes they al appear the same, which would argue all three genes act in a common process.

      However, when we look at gain of function phenotypes, Htl and Uif behave different compared to Notch. This would favor for two distinct processes.

      We have now added activity markers for RTK signaling to directly show that Notch silences RTK activity. Unfortunately we were not able to do a similar reciprocal experiment.

      Minor:

      (1) The Introduction is too long, and would benefit from revisions to make it shorter and more concise.

      We have shortened the introduction and hopefully made it more concise.

      (2) A schematic illustrating the model the authors propose about Htl, Uif, and Notch in glial differentiation, growth, and wrapping would benefit the clarity of this work. 

      We had previously added the graphical abstract below that we updated and included as a Figure in the main text.

      References

      Kautzmann, S., Rey, S., Krebs, A., and Klämbt, C. (2025). Cholinergic and glutamatergic axons differentially require glial support in the Drosophila PNS. Glia. 10.1002/glia.70011.

      Kottmeier, R., Bittern, J., Schoofs, A., Scheiwe, F., Matzat, T., Pankratz, M., and Klämbt, C. (2020). Wrapping glia regulates neuronal signaling speed and precision in the peripheral nervous system of Drosophila. Nature communications 11, 4491-4417. 10.1038/s41467-020-18291-1.

      Loubéry, S., Seum, C., Moraleda, A., Daeden, A., Fürthauer, M., and González-Gaitán, M. (2014). Uninflatable and Notch control the targeting of Sara endosomes during asymmetric division. Current biology : CB 24, 2142-2148. 10.1016/j.cub.2014.07.054.

      Macagno, J.P., Diaz Vera, J., Yu, Y., MacPherson, I., Sandilands, E., Palmer, R., Norman, J.C., Frame, M., and Vidal, M. (2014). FAK acts as a suppressor of RTK-MAP kinase signalling in Drosophila melanogaster epithelia and human cancer cells. PLoS Genet 10, e1004262. 10.1371/journal.pgen.1004262.

      Rebay, I., Chen, F., Hsiao, F., Kolodziej, P.A., Kuang, B.H., Laverty, T., Suh, C., Voas, M., Williams, A., and Rubin, G.M. (2000). A genetic screen for novel components of the Ras/Mitogen-activated protein kinase signaling pathway that interact with the yan gene of Drosophila identifies split ends, a new RNA recognition motif-containing protein. Genetics 154, 695-712. 10.1093/genetics/154.2.695.

      Sieglitz, F., Matzat, T., Yuva-Adyemir, Y., Neuert, H., Altenhein, B., and Klämbt, C. (2013). Antagonistic Feedback Loops Involving Rau and Sprouty in the Drosophila Eye Control Neuronal and Glial Differentiation. Science signaling 6, ra96. 10.1126/scisignal.2004651.

      Therrien, M., Morrison, D.K., Wong, A.M., and Rubin, G.M. (2000). A genetic screen for modifiers of a kinase suppressor of Ras-dependent rough eye phenotype in Drosophila. Genetics 156, 1231-1242.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews: 

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary 

      In this manuscript, Weir et al. investigate why the 13-lined ground squirrel (13LGS) retina is unusually rich in cone photoreceptors, the cells responsible for color and daylight vision. Most mammals, including humans, have rod-dominant retinas, making the 13LGS retina both an intriguing evolutionary divergence and a valuable model for uncovering novel mechanisms of cone generation. The developmental programs underlying this adaptation were previously unknown. 

      Using an integrated approach that combines single-cell RNA sequencing (scRNAseq), scATACseq, and histology, the authors generate a comprehensive atlas of retinal neurogenesis in 13LGS. Notably, comparative analyses with mouse datasets reveal that in 13LGS, cones can arise from late-stage neurogenic progenitors, a striking contrast to mouse and primate retinas, where late progenitors typically generate rods and other late-born cell types but not cones. They further identify a shift in the timing (heterochrony) of expression of several transcription factors.

      Further, the authors show that these factors act through species-specific regulatory elements. And overall, functional experiments support a role for several of these candidates in cone production. 

      Strengths 

      This study stands out for its rigorous and multi-layered methodology. The combination of transcriptomic, epigenomic, and histological data yields a detailed and coherent view of cone development in 13LGS. Cross-species comparisons are thoughtfully executed, lending strong evolutionary context to the findings. The conclusions are, in general, well supported by the evidence, and the datasets generated represent a substantial resource for the field. The work will be of high value to both evolutionary neurobiology and regenerative medicine, particularly in the design of strategies to replace lost cone photoreceptors in human disease. 

      Weaknesses 

      (1) Overall, the conclusions are strongly supported by the data, but the paper would benefit from additional clarifications. In particular, some of the conclusions could be toned down slightly to reflect that the observed changes in candidate gene function, such as those for Zic3 by itself, are modest and may represent part of a more complex regulatory network.  

      We have revised the text to qualify these conclusions as suggested.

      “Zic3 promotes cone-specific gene expression and is necessary for generating the full complement of cone photoreceptors”

      “Pou2f1 overexpression upregulated an overlapping but distinct, and larger, set of cone-specific genes relative to Zic3, while also downregulating many of the same rod-specific genes, often to a greater extent (Fig. 3C).”

      “This resulted in a statistically significant ~20% reduction in the density of cone photoreceptors in the mutant retina (Fig. 3E,F), while the relative numbers of rods and horizontal cells remained unaffected (Fig. S4A-D).”

      “Our analysis suggests that gene regulatory networks controlling cone specification are highly redundant, with transcription factors acting in complex, redundant, and potentially synergistic combinations. This is further supported by our findings on the synergistic effects of combined overexpression of Zic3 and Pou2f1 increasing both the number of differentially expressed genes and their level of change in expression relative to the modest changes seen with overexpression of either gene alone (Fig. 3) and the relatively mild or undetectable phenotypes observed following loss of function of Zic3 and Mef2c (Fig. 3, Fig. S6), as well as other cone-promoting factors such as Onecut1 and Pou2f1[18,19].“

      (2) Additional explanations about the cell composition of the 13LGS retina are needed. The ratios between cone and rod are clearly detailed, but do those lead to changes in other cell types? 

      The 13LGS retina, like most cone-dominant retinas, shows relatively lower numbers of rod and cone photoreceptors (~20%) than do nocturnal species such as mice (~80%). The difference is made up by increased numbers of inner retinal neurons and Muller glia. While rigorous histological quantification of the abundance of inner retinal cell types has not yet been performed for 13LGS, we can estimate these values using our snATAC-Seq data.  These numbers are provided in Table ST1, and are now discussed in the text.  

      (3) Could the lack of a clear trajectory for rod differentiation be just an effect of low cell numbers for this population? 

      This is indeed likely to be the case. This is now stated explicitly in the text.

      “However, no clear trajectory for rod differentiation was detected, likely due to the very low number of rod cells detected prior to P17 (Fig. 2A).”

      (4) The immunohistochemistry and RNA hybridization experiments shown in Figure S2 would benefit from supporting controls to strengthen their interpretability. While it has to be recognized that performing immunostainings on non-conventional species is not a simple task, negative controls are necessary to establish the baseline background levels, especially in cases where there seems to be labeling around the cells. The text indicates that these experiments are both immunostainings and ISH, but the figure legend only says "immunohistochemistry". Clarifying these points would improve readers' confidence in the data. 

      The figure legend has been corrected, and negative controls for P24 have been added. The figure legend has been modified as follows:

      “Fluorescent in situ hybridization showing co-expression of (A) Pou2f1 and Otx2 or (B) Zic3, Rxrg, and Otx2 in P1, P5, P10, and P24 retinas. Insets show higher power images of highlighted areas. (C) Zic3, Rxrg, and Otx2 fluorescent in situ hybridization from P24 with matched (C’) negative controls.  (D) Pou2f1 and Otx2 fluorescent in situ hybridization from P24 with matched (D’) negative controls. (E) Quantification of the fraction of Otx2-positive cells in the outer neuroblastic layer (P1, P5) and ONL (P10, P24) that also express Zic3. (F) Immunohistochemical analysis Mef2c and Otx2 expression in P1, P5, P10, and P24 retinas. (G) Mef2c and Otx2 immunohistochemistry from P24 with matched (G’) negative controls. Negative controls for fluorescent in situ hybridization omit the probe and for immunohistochemistry omit primary antibodies. Scale bars, 10 µm (S2A-F), 50 µm (S2G) and 5 µm (inset). Cell counts in E were analyzed using one-way ANOVA analysis with Sidak multiple comparisons test and 95% confidence interval. ** = p <0.01, **** = p <0.0001, and ns = non-significant. N=3 independent experiments.”

      (5) Figure S3: The text claims that overexpression of Zic3 alone is sufficient to induce the conelike photoreceptor precursor cells as well as horizontal cell-like precursors, but this is not clear in Figure S3A nor in any other figure. Similarly, the effects of Pou2f1 overexpression are different in Figure S3A and Figure S3B. In Figure S3B, the effects described (increased presence of cone-like and horizontal-like precursors) are very clear, whereas it is not in Figure S3A. How are these experiments different? 

      These UMAP data represent two independent experiments. Total numbers and relative fractions of each cell type are now included in Table ST5.

      In these experiments, cone-like precursors were identified by both cell type clustering and differential gene expression. Cells from all conditions were found in the cone-like precursor cluster. However, cells electroporated with a plasmid expressing GFP alone only showed GFP as a differentially expressed gene, identifying them most likely as GFP+ rods. In contrast, Zic3 overexpression resulted in increased expression of cone-specific genes and decreased expression of rod-specific genes in both cone-like precursors and rods relative to controls electroporated with GFP alone. Cell type proportions across independent overexpression singlecell experiments could be influenced by a number of factors, including electroporation efficiency and ex vivo growth conditions. 

      (6) The analyses of Zic3 conditional mutants (Figure S4) reveal an increase in many cone, rod, and pan-photoreceptor genes with only a reduction in some cone genes. Thus, the overall conclusion that Zic3 is essential for cones while repressing rod genes doesn't seem to match this particular dataset. 

      We observe that loss of function of Zic3 in developing retinal progenitors leads to a reduction in the total number of cones (Fig. 4E,F). In Fig. S4, we investigate how gene expression is altered in both the remaining cones and in other retinal cell types. We only observed significant changes in mutant cones and Muller glia relative to controls. We observe a mixed phenotype in cones, with a subset of cone-specific genes downregulated (notably including Thrb), a subset of others upregulated (including Opn1sw). We also find that genes expressed both in rods and cones, as well as rod-specific genes, are downregulated in cKO cones. Since rods are fragile cells that are located immediately adjacent to cones, some level of contamination of rod-specific genes is inevitable in single-cell analysis of dissociated cones (c.f. PMID: 31128945, 34788628), and this reduced level of rod contamination could result from altered adhesion between mutant rods and cones. In mutant Muller glia, in contrast, we see a broad decrease in expression of Muller glia-specific genes, which likely reflects the indirect effects of Zic3 loss of function in retinal progenitors, and an upregulation of both broadly photoreceptor-specific genes and a subset of rod-specific genes, which may also result from altered adhesion between Muller glia and rods. 

      This is consistent with the conclusions in the text, although we have both modified the text and included heatmaps showing downregulation of rod-specific genes in mutant cones, to clarify this finding.

      “In addition, we observe a broad decrease in expression of genes expressed at high levels in both cones and rods (Rpgrip1, Drd4) and rod-specific genes (Rho, Cnga1, Pde6b) in mutant cones (Fig. S4F). Since rods are fragile cells that are located immediately adjacent to cones, some level of contamination of rod-specific genes is inevitable in single-cell analysis of dissociated cones (c.f. PMID: 31128945, 34788628), and this reduced level of rod contamination could result from altered adhesion between mutant rods and cones. In contrast, increased expression of rod-specific genes (Rho, Nrl, Pde6g, Gngt1) and pan-photoreceptor genes (Crx, Stx3, Rcvrn) was observed in Müller glia (Fig. S4G), which may likewise result from altered adhesion between Muller glia and rods. Finally, several Müller glia-specific genes were downregulated, including Clu, Aqp4, and Notch pathway components such as Hes1 and Id3, with the exception of Hopx, which was upregulated (Fig. S4G). This likely reflects the indirect effects of Zic3 loss of function in retinal progenitors. These findings indicate that Zic3 is essential for the proper expression of photoreceptor genes in cones while also playing a role in regulating expression of Müller glia-specific genes.”

      (7) Throughout the text, the authors used the term "evolved". To substantiate this claim, it would be important to include sequence analyses or to rephrase to a more neutral term that does not imply evolutionary inference. 

      We have modified the text as requested to replace “evolved” and “evolutionarily conserved” where possible, with examples of revised text listed below:  

      “These results demonstrate that modifications to gene regulatory networks underlie the development of cone-dominant retina,...”

      “Our results demonstrate that heterochronic expansion of the expression of transcription factors that promote cone development is a key event in the development of the cone-dominant 13LGS retina.”

      “Conserved patterns of motif accessibility, identified using ChromVAR and theTRANSFAC2018 database, (Fig. S1F, Table ST1)...”

      “However, most of these elements  mapped to sequences that were not shared between 13LGS and mouse, with intergenic enhancers exhibiting particularly low levels of conservation (Fig. 5B).”

      “We conclude that the development of the cone-dominant retina in 13LGS is driven by novel cisregulatory elements…”

      “Based on our bioinformatic analysis, the cone-dominant 13LGS retina follows this paradigm, in which species-specific enhancer elements…”

      “Dot plots showing the enrichment of binding sites for Otx2 and Neurod1, TFs which are broadly expressed in both neurogenic RPC and photoreceptor precursors, which are enriched in both conserved cis-regulatory elements in both species. (D) Bar plots showing the number of conversed and species-specific enhancers per TSS in four cone-promoting genes between 13LGS and mouse.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This paper aims to elucidate the gene regulatory network governing the development of cone photoreceptors, the light-sensing neurons responsible for high acuity and color vision in humans. The authors provide a comprehensive analysis through stage-matched comparisons of gene expression and chromatin accessibility using scRNA-seq and scATAC-seq from the conedominant 13-lined ground squirrel (13LGS) retina and the rod-dominant mouse retina. The abundance of cones in the 13LGS retina arises from a dominant trajectory from late retinal progenitor cells (RPCs) to photoreceptor precursors and then to cones, whereas only a small proportion of rods are generated from these precursors. 

      Strengths: 

      The paper presents intriguing insights into the gene regulatory network involved in 13LGS cone development. In particular, the authors highlight the expression of cone-promoting transcription factors such as Onecut2, Pou2f1, and Zic3 in late-stage neurogenic progenitors, which may be driven by 13LGS-specific cis-regulatory elements. The authors also characterize candidate cone-promoting genes Zic3 and Mef2C, which have been previously understudied. Overall, I found that the across-species analysis presented by this study is a useful resource for the field. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The functional analysis on Zic3 and Mef2C in mice does not convincingly establish that these factors are sufficient or necessary to promote cone photoreceptor specification. Several analyses lack clarity or consistency, and figure labeling and interpretation need improvement. 

      We have modified the text and figures to more clearly describe the observed roles of Zic3 and Mef2c in cone photoreceptor development as detailed in our responses to reviewer recommendations.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      The authors perform deep transcriptomic and epigenetic comparisons between mouse and 13lined ground squirrel (13LGS) to identify mechanisms that drive rod vs cone-rich retina development. Through cross-species analysis, the authors find extended cone generation in 13LGS, gene expression within progenitor/photoreceptor precursor cells consistent with a lengthened cone window, and differential regulatory element usage. Two of the transcription factors, Mef2c and Zic3, were subsequently validated using OE and KO mouse lines to verify the role of these genes in regulating competence to generate cone photoreceptors. 

      Strengths: 

      Overall, this is an impactful manuscript with broad implications toward our understanding of retinal development, cell fate specification, and TF network dynamics across evolution and with the potential to influence our future ability to treat vision loss in human patients. The generation of this rich new dataset profiling the transcriptome and epigenome of the 13LGS is a tremendous addition to the field that assuredly will be useful for numerous other investigations and questions of a variety of interests. In this manuscript, the authors use this dataset and compare it to data they previously generated for mouse retinal development to identify 2 new regulators of cone generation and shed insights into their regulation and their integration into the network of regulatory elements within the 13LGS compared to mouse. 

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) The authors chose to omit several cell classes from analyses and visualizations that would have added to their interpretations. In particular, I worry that the omission of 13LGS rods, early RPCs, and early NG from Figures 2C, D, and F is notable and would have added to the understanding of gene expression dynamics. In other words, (a) are these genes of interest unique to late RPCs or maintained from early RPCs, and (b) are rod networks suppressed compared to the mouse? 

      We were unable to include 13LGS rods in our analysis due to the extremely low number of cells detected prior to P17. Relative expression levels of cone-promoting transcription factors in 13LGS in early RPCs and early NG cells is shown in Fig. 2H. Particularly when compared to mice, we also observe elevated expression of cone-promoting genes in early-stage RPC and/or early NG cells. These include Zic3, Onecut2, Mef2c, and Pou2f1, as well as transcription factors that promote the differentiation of post-mitotic cone precursors, such as Thrb and Rxrg. Contrast this with genes that promote specification and differentiation of both rods and cones, such as Otx2 and Crx, which show similar or even slightly higher expression in mice. Genes such as Casz1, which act in late NG cells to promote rod specification, are indeed downregulated in 13LGS late NG cells relative to mice. We have modified the text to clarify these points, as shown below:

      “To further characterize species-specific patterns of gene expression and regulation during postnatal photoreceptor development, we analyzed differential gene expression, chromatin accessibility, and motif enrichment across late-stage primary and neurogenic progenitors, immature photoreceptor precursors, rods, and cones. Due to their very low number before time point P17, we were unable to include 13LGS rods in the analysis.”

      “In contrast, two broad patterns of differential expression of cone-promoting transcription factors were observed between mouse and 13LGS.”

      “First, transcription factors identified in this network that are known to be required for committed cone precursor differentiation, including Thrb, Rxrg, and Sall3 [25,26,45], consistently showed stronger expression in late-stage RPCs and early-stage primary and/or neurogenic RPCs of 13LGS compared to mice.”

      “Second, transcription factors in the network known to promote cone specification in early-stage mouse RPCs, such as Onecut2 and Pou2f1, exhibited enriched expression in early and latestage primary and/or neurogenic RPCs of 13LGS, implying a heterochronic expansion of conepromoting factors into later developmental stages.”

      “In contrast, genes such as Casz1, which act in late neurogenic RPCs to promote rod specification, are downregulated in 13LGS late neurogenic RPCs relative to mice.”

      (2) The authors claim that the majority of cones are generated by late RPCs and that this is driven primarily by the enriched enhancer network around cone-promoting genes. With the temporal scRNA/ATACseq data at their disposal, the authors should compare early vs late born cones and RPCs to determine whether the same enhancers and genes are hyperactivated in early RPCs as well as in the 13LGS. This analysis will answer the important question of whether the enhancers activated/evolved to promote all cones, or are only and specifically activated within late RPCs to drive cone genesis at the expense of rods. 

      This is an excellent question.  We have addressed this question by analyzing both expression of the cone-promoting genes identified in C2 and C3 in Figure 2C and accessibility of their associated enhancer sequences, which are shown in Figure 6B, in early and late-stage RPCs and cone precursors.  The results are shown in Author response image 1 below. We observe that cone-promoting genes consistently show higher expression in both late-stage RPCs and cones.  We do not observe any clear differences in the accessibility of the associated enhancer regions, as determined by snATAC-Seq.  However, since we have not performed CUT&RUN analysis in embryonic retina for H3K27Ac or any other marker of active enhancer elements, we cannot determine whether the total number of active enhancers differs between early and late-stage RPCs. We suspect, however, this is likely to be the case, given the differences in the expression levels of these genes.

      Author response image 1.

      Relative expression levels of cone-promoting genes and accessibility of enhancer elements associated with these genes in early- and late-stage RPCs and cone precursors.

      (3) The authors repeatedly use the term 'evolved' to describe the increased number of local enhancer elements of genes that increase in expression in 13LGS late RPCs and cones. Evolution can act at multiple levels on the genome and its regulation. The authors should consider analysis of sequence level changes between mouse, 13LGS, and other species to test whether the enhancer sequences claimed to be novel in the 13LGS are, in fact, newly evolved sequence/binding sites or if the binding sites are present in mouse but only used in late RPCs of the 13LGS. 

      Novel enhancer sequences here are defined as having divergent sequences rather than simply divergent activity. This point has been clarified in the text, with the following changes made:

      “However, most of these elements mapped to sequences that were not shared between 13LGS and mouse, with intergenic enhancers exhibiting particularly low levels of conservation (Fig. 5B).”

      “...demonstrated far greater motif enrichment in active regulatory elements in 13LGS than in mice, though few of these elements mapped to sequences that were shared between 13LGS and mouse (Fig. 5C,D, Table ST10).”

      (4) The authors state that 'Enhancer elements in 13LGS are predicted to be directly targeted by a considerably greater number of transcription factors than in mice'. This statement can easily be misread to suggest that all enhancers display this, when in fact, this is only the conepromoting enhancers of late 13LGS RPCs. In a way, this is not surprising since these genes are largely less expressed in mouse vs 13LGS late RPCs, as shown in Figure 2. The manuscript is written to suggest this mechanism of enhancer number is specific to cone production in the 13LGS- it would help prove this point if the authors asked the opposite question and showed that mouse late RPCs do not have similar increased predicted binding of TFs near rodpromoting genes in C7-8. 

      The Reviewer’s point is well taken, and we agree that this mechanism is unlikely to be specific to cone photoreceptors, since we are simply looking at genes that show higher expression in late-stage neurogenic RPCs in 13LGS. We have changed the relevant text to now state:

      “Enhancer elements associated with cone-specific genes in 13LGS are predicted to be directly targeted by a considerably greater number of transcription factors in late-stage neurogenic RPCs than in mice, as might be expected, given the higher expression levels of these genes.”

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) Minor: Clusters C1-C8 (Figure 2) are labeled as "C1-8" in the text but "G1-8" in the figure. 

      This has been done.

      (2) Minor: Showing other neurogenic factors (Olig2, Ascl1, Otx2) and late-stage specific factors (Lhx2, Sox8, Nfia/b) could be shown in Figure 2 to better support the text. 

      This has been done. These motifs are consistent in both species, but Figure 2F shows differential motifs. The reference to Figure 2F has been altered to include Table ST4, while Neurod1 motifs are shown in Fig. 2F.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) Figure 2 

      2A-B: The exclusion of early-stage data from the species-integrated analysis is puzzling, as it could reveal significant differences between early-stage neurogenic progenitors in mice and late-stage progenitors in 13LGS that both give rise to cones. This analysis would also shed light on how cone-promoting transcription factors are suppressed in mouse early-stage progenitors, limiting the window for cone genesis.

      2C: The figure labels G1-8, while C1-8 are referenced in the text. 

      2F: Neurog2, Olig2, Ascl1, and Neurod1 are mentioned in the text but not labeled in the figure. 

      2A-B: There are indeed substantial differences between early-stage RPC in 13LGS and latestage RPC in mice that are broadly linked to control of temporal patterning, which are mentioned in the text. For instance, early-stage RPCs in both animals express higher levels of Nr2f1/2, Meis1/2, and Foxp1/4, while late-stage RPCs express higher levels of Nfia/b/x, indicating that core distinction between early- and late-stage RPCs is maintained.  What most clearly differs in 13-LGS is the sustained expression of a subset of cone-promoting transcription factors in late-stage RPCs that are normally restricted to early-stage RPCs in mice. However, as mentioned in response to Reviewer #3’s first point, we do observe some evidence for increased expression of cone-promoting transcription factors in early-stage RPCs and NG cells of 13LGS relative to mice, although this is much less dramatic than observed at later stages.  We have modified the text to directly mention this point. G1-8 has been corrected to C1-8 in the figure, a reference to Table ST4 has been added in discussion of neurogenic bHLH factors, and Fig. 2F has been modified to label Neurod1. 

      “First, transcription factors identified in this network that are known to be required for committed cone precursor differentiation, including Thrb, Rxrg, and Sall3 [25,26,45], consistently showed stronger expression in late-stage RPCs and early-stage primary and/or neurogenic RPCs of 13LGS compared to mice.”

      “Second, transcription factors in the network known to promote cone specification in early-stage mouse RPCs, such as Onecut2 and Pou2f1, exhibited enriched expression in early and latestage primary and/or neurogenic RPCs of 13LGS, implying a heterochronic expansion of conepromoting factors into later developmental stages.”

      (2) Figure 3 

      In 3F, the cone density in the WT retina is approximately 0.25 cones per micron, while in the Zic3 cKO retina, it is about 0.2 cones per micron. However, the WT control in Figure S6C also shows about 0.2 cones per micron, raising questions about whether there is a genuine decrease in cone number or if it results from quantification variability. Additionally, the proportion of cone cells in the Zic3 cKO scRNA-seq data shown in Figure S4E appears comparable to the WT control, which is inconsistent with the conclusion that Zic3 cKO leads to reduced cone production. Therefore, I found that the conclusion that Zic3 is necessary for cone development is not supported by the data.

      The cone density counts in the two mutant lines and accompanying littermate controls were collected by blinded counting by two different observers (R.A. for the Zic3 cKO and N.P. for the Mef2c cKO). We believe that the ~20% difference in the observed cone density in the two control samples likely represents investigator-dependent differences. These can exceed 20% between even highly skilled observers when quantifying dissociated cells (PMID: 35198419) and are likely to be even higher for immunohistochemistry samples.  Since both controls were done in parallel with littermate mutant samples, we therefore stand by our interpretation of these results.

      (3) Figures 4 and 5

      These figures are duplicates. In Figure 4, Mef2C overexpression in postnatal progenitors leads to increased numbers of neurogenic RPCs, suggesting it may promote cell proliferation rather than inhibit rod cell fate or promote cone cell fate. Electroporation of plasmids into P0 retina typically does not label cone cells, as cones are born prenatally in mice. Given the widespread GFP signal in Figure 4D, the authors should consider that the high background of GFP signal may have misled the quantification of the result.

      The figure duplication has been corrected. We respectfully disagree with the Reviewer’s statement that ex vivo electroporation performed at P0, as is the case here, does not label cones. We routinely observe small numbers of electroporated cones when performing this analysis. Cones at this age are located on the scleral face of the retina at this age and therefore in direct contact with the buffer solution containing the plasmid in question (c.f. PMID: 20729845, 31128945, 34788628, 40654906). Furthermore, since the level of GFP expression that is used to gate electroporated cells for isolation using FACS is typically considerably less than that used to identify a GFP-positive cell using standard immunohistochemical techniques, making it difficult to directly compare the efficiency of cone electroporation between these approaches. We agree, however, that Mef2c overexpression seems to broadly delay the differentiation of rod photoreceptors, and have modified the text to include discussion of this point.

      “Although a few GFP-positive electroporated cells co-expressing the cone-specific marker Gnat2 were detected in control (likely due to the electroporation of cone precursors, which we have previously observed in P0 retinal explants (Clark et al., 2019; Leavey et al., 2025; Lyu et al., 2021; Onishi et al., 2010)), there was a significant increase in double-positive cells in the test condition, matching the novel cone-like precursor population found in the scRNA-Seq (Fig. 4E).”

      “Indeed, overexpression of Mef2c increased the number of both neurogenic RPCs and immature photoreceptor precursors, suggesting that rod differentiation was broadly delayed.”

      (4) Figure S2 

      The figure legend lacks information about panels A and B. It is unclear which panels represent immunohistochemistry and which represent RNA hybridization chain reaction. Overall, the staining results are difficult to interpret, as it appears that all examined RNAs/proteins are positively stained across the sections with varying background levels. Specificity is hard to assess. For instance, in Figure S2B, the background intensity of Zic3 staining varies inconsistently from P1 to P24. The number of Zic3 mRNA dots seems to peak at P5 and decrease at P10, which contradicts the scRNA-seq results showing peak expression in mature cones.

      The figure legend has been corrected. Negative controls are now included for both in situ hybridization (Fig. S2C’) and immunostaining (Fig. S2G) at P24, along with paired experimental data.  We have quantified the total fraction of Otx2+ cells that also contain Zic3 foci, and find that coexpression peaks at P5 and P10.  This is now included as Fig. S2E.

      The number of Zic3 foci is in fact higher at P5 than P10, with XX foci/Otx2+ cell at P5 vs. YY foci/Otx2+ cell at P10.

      “Fluorescent in situ hybridization showing co-expression of (A) Pou2f1 and Otx2 or (B) Zic3, Rxrg, and Otx2 in P1, P5, P10, and P24 retinas. Insets show higher power images of highlighted areas. (C) Zic3, Rxrg, and Otx2 fluorescent in situ hybridization from P24 with matched (C’) negative controls. (D) Pou2f1 and Otx2 fluorescent in situ hybridization from P24 with matched (D’) negative controls. (E) Quantification of the fraction of Otx2-positive cells in the outer neuroblastic layer (P1, P5) and ONL (P10, P24) that also express Zic3. (F) Immunohistochemical analysis Mef2c and Otx2 expression in P1, P5, P10, and P24 retinas. (G) Mef2c and Otx2 immunohistochemistry from P24 with matched (G’) negative controls. Negative controls for fluorescent in situ hybridization omit the probe and for immunohistochemistry omit primary antibodies. Scale bars, 10 µm (S2A-F),  50 µm (S2G) and 5 µm (inset). Cell counts in E were analyzed using one-way ANOVA analysis with Sidak multiple comparisons test and 95% confidence interval. ** = p <0.01, **** = p <0.0001, and ns = non-significant. N=3 independent experiments.”

      (5) Figure S3

      In S3A and S3B, the UMAPs of the empty vector-treated groups are distinctly different. The same goes for Zic3+Pou2F1 UMAPS.

      In S3A, Zic3 overexpression alone does not appear to have any impact on cell fate. It is not evident that Zic3, even in combination with Pou2F1, has any significant impact on cone or other cell type production, as the proportions of the cones and cone precursors seem similar across different groups.

      In S3B, Zic3+Pou2F1 seems to increase HC-like precursors without increasing cone-like procursors or cones.

      Moreover, the cone-like precursors described do not seem to contribute to cone generation, as there is no increase in cones in the adult mouse retina; rather, these cells resemble rod-cone mosaic cells with expression of both rod- and cone-specific genes.

      As the Reviewer states, we observe some differences in the proportion of cell types in both control and experimental conditions between the two experiments. Notably, relatively more photoreceptors and correspondingly fewer progenitors, bipolar, and amacrine cells are observed in the samples shown in Fig. S3A relative to Fig. S3B.  However, these represent two independent experiments. Cell type proportions seen across independent ex vivo electroporation experiments such as these can be affected by a number of variables, including precise developmental age of the samples, electroporation efficiency, cell dissociation conditions, and ex vivo growth conditions.  Some differences are inevitable, which is why paired negative controls must always be done for results to be interpretable.

      In both experiments, we observe that overexpression of Zic3, Pou2f1, and most notably Zic3 and Pou2f1 lead to an increase in the relative fraction of cone-like precursors. In the experiment shown in Fig. S3B, we also observe that Zic3 alone, Onecut1 alone, and Zic3 and Pou2f1 in combination also promote generation of horizontal-like cells. All treatments likewise induce expression of different subsets of cone-enriched genes in the cone-like precursors, while also suppressing rod-specific genes in these same cells.

      Total numbers and relative fractions of each cell type are now included in Table ST5.

      (6) Figure S4

      The proportion of cone cells in the Zic3 cKO scRNA-seq data shown in Figure S4E appears comparable to the WT control, contradicting the conclusion that Zic3 cKO leads to reduced cone production. 

      Total numbers and relative fractions of each cell type are now included in Table ST6.

      (7) Figure S5

      In Figure S5A, Mef2C overexpression does not decrease expression of the rod gene Nrl. 

      This is correct, and is mentioned in the text.

      “No obvious reduction in the relative number of Nrl-positive cells was observed (Fig. S5A).”

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) The authors make several broad and definitive statements that have the potential to confuse readers. In the first sections of Results: 'retinal ganglion cells and amacrine cells were generated predominantly by early stage progenitors' but later say 'late-stage RPCs in 13LGS retina are competent to generate cone photoreceptors but not other early born cell types.' In the discussion, the authors themselves point out limitations of analyses without birthdating. These definitive statements should be qualified/amended. 

      Both single-cell RNA and ATAC-Seq analysis can be used to accurately profile cells that have recently exited mitosis and committed to a specific cell fate. When applied to data obtained from a developmental timecourse such as is the case here, this can in turn serve as a reasonable proxy for generating birthdating data. Nonetheless, we have modified the text to state that BrdU/EdU labeling is indeed the gold standard for drawing conclusions about cell birthdates, and should be used to confirm these findings in future studies.

      “The expected temporal patterns of neurogenesis were observed in both species: retinal ganglion cells and amacrine cells were generated predominantly in the early stage, whereas bipolar cells and Müller glia were produced in the late stage.”

      “Though BrdU/EdU labeling would be required to unambiguously demonstrate species-specific differences in birthdating, our findings strongly indicate that 13LGS exhibit a selective expansion of the temporal window of cone generation, extending into late stages of neurogenesis.”

      This sentence does not make a definitive statement about 13LGS RPC competence, and we have left it unaltered. 

      “These findings suggest that late-stage RPCs in 13LGS retina are competent to generate cone photoreceptors but not other early-born cell types…”

      (2) Figure 2C clusters are referred to as C1-8 in the text but G1-8 in the figure. This is confusing and should be fixed. 

      This has been corrected.

      (3) The authors refer to many genes that show differential expression in Figure 2F, but virtually none of these are labelled in the heatmap, making it hard to follow the narrative. 

      Figure 2F represents transcription factor binding motifs that are differentially active between mouse and 13LGS, not gene expression. We have modified the figure to include names of all differentially active motifs discussed in the text, and otherwise refer the reader to Table ST4, which includes a list of all differentially expressed genes.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is a retrospective analysis of 53 individuals over 26 features (12 clinical phenotypes, 12 CGM features, and 2 autocorrelation features) to examine which features were most informative in predicting percent necrotic core (%NC) as parameter for coronary plaque vulnerability. Multiple regression analysis demonstrated a better ability to predict %NC from 3 selected CGM derived features than 3 selected clinical phenotypes. LASSO regularization and partial least squares (PLS) with VIP scores were used to identify 4 CGM features that most contribute to the precision of %NC. Using factor analysis they identify 3 components that have CGM related features: value (relating to the value of blood glucose), variability (relating to glucose variability), and autocorrelation (composed of the two autocorrelation features). These three groupings appeared in the 3 validation cohorts and when performing hierarchical clustering. To demonstrate how these three features change, a simulation was created to allow the user to examine these features under different conditions.

      Summary of Revision 1. This is a Valuable study supported by Solid evidence. The revisions meaningfully strengthen the manuscript by clarifying methods, improving transparency, and refining presentation. The work provides useful conceptual and methodological advances for understanding CGM-derived glucose dynamics and their possible relationship to cardiovascular pathology.

      Strengths:

      The authors have provided a much clearer exposition of how each glycemic component was defined and validated across cohorts. The revised manuscript now includes explicit pairwise correlations, clarified p- and q-value reporting, and better visualization of key associations between CGM indices and %NC. The justification for LASSO and PLS use is now well explained, and additional details on cohort timing relative to PCI, validation dataset structure, and statistical robustness (e.g., VIP stability with covariates) address prior concerns. The inclusion of precise factor definitions and clearer graphics notably improves interpretability.

      Limitations:

      Some limitations remain inherent to the study design, including the modest primary sample size, reliance on retrospective data, and differences between validation datasets in outcome ascertainment. However, these are now acknowledged more openly.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      We appreciate the reviewer for the critical review of the manuscript and the valuable comments. We have carefully considered the reviewer’s comments and have revised our manuscript accordingly.

      The reviewer’s comments in this letter are in Bold and Italics.

      Summary:

      This study identified three independent components of glucose dynamics-"value," "variability," and "autocorrelation", and reported important findings indicating that they play an important role in predicting coronary plaque vulnerability. Although the generalizability of the results needs further investigation due to the limited sample size and validation cohort limitations, this study makes several notable contributions: validation of autocorrelation as a new clinical indicator, theoretical support through mathematical modeling, and development of a web application for practical implementation. These contributions are likely to attract broad interest from researchers in both diabetology and cardiology and may suggest the potential for a new approach to glucose monitoring that goes beyond conventional glycemic control indicators in clinical practice.

      Strengths:

      The most notable strength of this study is the identification of three independent elements in glycemic dynamics: value, variability, and autocorrelation. In particular, the metric of autocorrelation, which has not been captured by conventional glycemic control indices, may bring a new perspective for understanding glycemic dynamics. In terms of methodological aspects, the study uses an analytical approach combining various statistical methods such as factor analysis, LASSO, and PLS regression, and enhances the reliability of results through theoretical validation using mathematical models and validation in other cohorts. In addition, the practical aspect of the research results, such as the development of a Web application, is also an important contribution to clinical implementation.

      We appreciate reviewer #1 for the positive assessment and for the valuable and constructive comments on our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      The most significant weakness of this study is the relatively small sample size of 53 study subjects. This sample size limitation leads to a lack of statistical power, especially in subgroup analyses, and to limitations in the assessment of rare events. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding the sample size. We acknowledge that a larger sample size would increase statistical power, especially for subgroup analyses and the assessment of rare events.

      We would like to clarify several points regarding the statistical power and validation of our findings. Our sample size determination followed established methodological frameworks, including the guidelines outlined by Muyembe Asenahabi, Bostely, and Peters Anselemo Ikoha. “Scientific research sample size determination.” (2023). These guidelines balance the risks of inadequate sample size with the challenges of unnecessarily large samples. For our primary analysis examining the correlation between CGM-derived measures and %NC, power calculations (a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4) indicated that a minimum of 47 participants was required. Our sample size of 53 exceeded this threshold and allowed us to detect statistically significant correlations, as described in the Methods section. Moreover, to provide transparency about the precision of our estimates, we have included confidence intervals for all coefficients. 

      Furthermore, our sample size aligns with previous studies investigating the associations between glucose profiles and clinical parameters, including Torimoto, Keiichi, et al. “Relationship between fluctuations in glucose levels measured by continuous glucose monitoring and vascular endothelial dysfunction in type 2 diabetes mellitus.” Cardiovascular Diabetology 12 (2013): 1-7. (n=57), Hall, Heather, et al. “Glucotypes reveal new patterns of glucose dysregulation.” PLoS biology 16.7 (2018): e2005143. (n=57), and Metwally, Ahmed A., et al. “Prediction of metabolic subphenotypes of type 2 diabetes via continuous glucose monitoring and machine learning.” Nature Biomedical Engineering (2024): 1-18. (n=32).

      Furthermore, the primary objective of our study was not to assess rare events, but rather to demonstrate that glucose dynamics can be decomposed into three main factors - mean, variance and autocorrelation - whereas traditional measures have primarily captured mean and variance without adequately reflecting autocorrelation. We believe that our current sample size effectively addresses this objective. 

      Regarding the classification of glucose dynamics components, we have conducted additional validation across diverse populations including 64 Japanese, 53 American, and 100 Chinese individuals. These validation efforts have consistently supported our identification of three independent glucose dynamics components.

      However, we acknowledge the importance of further validation on a larger scale. To address this, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which confirmed our main finding that glucose dynamics consist of mean, variance, and autocorrelation. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, it provides further support for the clinical relevance and generalizability of our findings.

      To address the sample size considerations, we have added the following sentences in the Discussion section (lines 409-414): 

      Although our analysis included four datasets with a total of 270 individuals, and our sample size of 53 met the required threshold based on power calculations with a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4, we acknowledge that the sample size may still be considered relatively small for a comprehensive assessment of these relationships. To further validate these findings, larger prospective studies with diverse populations are needed.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s feedback and believe that these clarifications improve the manuscript.

      In terms of validation, several challenges exist, including geographical and ethnic biases in the validation cohorts, lack of long-term follow-up data, and insufficient validation across different clinical settings. In terms of data representativeness, limiting factors include the inclusion of only subjects with well-controlled serum cholesterol and blood pressure and the use of only short-term measurement data.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the challenges associated with validation. In terms of geographic and ethnic diversity, our study includes validation datasets from diverse populations, including 64 Japanese, 53 American and 100 Chinese individuals. These datasets include a wide range of metabolic states, from healthy individuals to those with diabetes, ensuring validation across different clinical conditions. In addition, we recognize the limited availability of publicly available datasets with sufficient sample sizes for factor decomposition that include both healthy individuals and those with type 2 diabetes (Zhao, Qinpei, et al. “Chinese diabetes datasets for data-driven machine learning.” Scientific Data 10.1 (2023): 35.). The main publicly available datasets with relevant clinical characteristics have already been analyzed in this study using unbiased approaches.

      However, we fully agree with the reviewer that expanding the geographic and ethnic scope, including long-term follow-up data, and validation in different clinical settings would further strengthen the robustness and generalizability of our findings. To address this, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals with two years of follow-up (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which confirmed our main finding that glucose dynamics consist of mean, variance, and autocorrelation. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, it provides further support for the clinical relevance and generalizability of our findings.

      Regarding the validation considerations, we have added the following sentences to the Discussion section (lines 409-414, 354-361): 

      Although our analysis included four datasets with a total of 270 individuals, and our sample size of 53 met the required threshold based on power calculations with a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4, we acknowledge that the sample size may still be considered relatively small for a comprehensive assessment of these relationships. To further validate these findings, larger prospective studies with diverse populations are needed.

      Although our LASSO and factor analysis indicated that CGM-derived measures were strong predictors of %NC, this does not mean that other clinical parameters, such as lipids and blood pressure, are irrelevant in T2DM complications. Our study specifically focused on characterizing glucose dynamics, and we analyzed individuals with well-controlled serum cholesterol and blood pressure to reduce confounding effects. While we anticipate that inclusion of a more diverse population would not alter our primary findings regarding glucose dynamics, it is likely that a broader data set would reveal additional predictive contributions from lipid and blood pressure parameters.

      In terms of elucidation of physical mechanisms, the study is not sufficient to elucidate the mechanisms linking autocorrelation and clinical outcomes or to verify them at the cellular or molecular level.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point regarding the need for further elucidation of the physical mechanisms linking glucose autocorrelation to clinical outcomes. We fully agree with the reviewer that the detailed molecular and cellular mechanisms underlying this relationship are not yet fully understood, as noted in our Discussion section.

      However, we would like to emphasize the theoretical basis that supports the clinical relevance of autocorrelation. Our results show that glucose profiles with identical mean and variability can exhibit different autocorrelation patterns, highlighting that conventional measures such as mean or variance alone may not fully capture inter-individual metabolic differences. Incorporating autocorrelation analysis provides a more comprehensive characterization of metabolic states. Consequently, incorporating autocorrelation measures alongside traditional diabetes diagnostic criteria - such as fasting glucose, HbA1c and PG120, which primarily reflect only the “mean” component - can improve predictive accuracy for various clinical outcomes. While further research at the cellular and molecular level is needed to fully validate these findings, it is important to note that the primary goal of this study was to analyze the characteristics of glucose dynamics and gain new insights into metabolism, rather than to perform molecular biology experiments.

      Furthermore, our previous research has shown that glucose autocorrelation reflects changes in insulin clearance (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Improved detection of decreased glucose handling capacities via continuous glucose monitoring-derived indices.” Communications Medicine 5.1 (2025): 103.). The relationship between insulin clearance and cardiovascular disease has been well documented (Randrianarisoa, Elko, et al. “Reduced insulin clearance is linked to subclinical atherosclerosis in individuals at risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus.” Scientific reports 10.1 (2020): 22453.), and the mechanisms described in this prior work may potentially explain the association between glucose autocorrelation and clinical outcomes observed in the present study.

      Rather than a limitation, we view these currently unexplored associations as an opportunity for further research. The identification of autocorrelation as a key glycemic feature introduces a new dimension to metabolic regulation that could serve as the basis for future investigations exploring the molecular mechanisms underlying these patterns.

      While we agree that further research at the cellular and molecular level is needed to fully validate these findings, we believe that our study provides a theoretical framework to support the clinical utility of autocorrelation analysis in glucose monitoring, and that this could serve as the basis for future investigations exploring the molecular mechanisms underlying these autocorrelation patterns, which adds to the broad interest of this study. Regarding the physical mechanisms linking autocorrelation and clinical outcomes, we have added the following sentences in the Discussion section (lines 331-339, 341-352): 

      This study also provided evidence that autocorrelation can vary independently from the mean and variance components using simulated data. In addition, simulated glucose dynamics indicated that even individuals with high AC_Var did not necessarily have high maximum and minimum blood glucose levels. This study also indicated that these three components qualitatively corresponded to the four distinct glucose patterns observed after glucose administration, which were identified in a previous study (Hulman et al., 2018). Thus, the inclusion of autocorrelation in addition to mean and variance may improve the characterization of inter-individual differences in glucose regulation and improve the predictive accuracy of various clinical outcomes.

      Despite increasing evidence linking glycemic variability to oxidative stress and endothelial dysfunction in T2DM complications (Ceriello et al., 2008; Monnier et al., 2008), the biological mechanisms underlying the independent predictive value of autocorrelation remain to be elucidated. Our previous work has shown that glucose autocorrelation is influenced by insulin clearance (Sugimoto et al., 2025), a process known to be associated with cardiovascular disease risk (Randrianarisoa et al., 2020). Therefore, the molecular pathways linking glucose autocorrelation to cardiovascular disease may share common mechanisms with those linking insulin clearance to cardiovascular disease. Although previous studies have primarily focused on investigating the molecular mechanisms associated with mean glucose levels and glycemic variability, our findings open new avenues for exploring the molecular basis of glucose autocorrelation, potentially revealing novel therapeutic targets for preventing diabetic complications.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      We appreciate the reviewer for the critical review of the manuscript and the valuable comments. We have carefully considered the reviewer’s comments and have revised our manuscript accordingly. The reviewer’s comments in this letter are in Bold and Italics.

      Sugimoto et al. explore the relationship between glucose dynamics - specifically value, variability, and autocorrelation - and coronary plaque vulnerability in patients with varying glucose tolerance levels. The study identifies three independent predictive factors for %NC and emphasizes the use of continuous glucose monitoring (CGM)-derived indices for coronary artery disease (CAD) risk assessment. By employing robust statistical methods and validating findings across datasets from Japan, America, and China, the authors highlight the limitations of conventional markers while proposing CGM as a novel approach for risk prediction. The study has the potential to reshape CAD risk assessment by emphasizing CGM-derived indices, aligning well with personalized medicine trends.

      Strengths:

      (1) The introduction of autocorrelation as a predictive factor for plaque vulnerability adds a novel dimension to glucose dynamic analysis.

      (2) Inclusion of datasets from diverse regions enhances generalizability.

      (3) The use of a well-characterized cohort with controlled cholesterol and blood pressure levels strengthens the findings.

      (4) The focus on CGM-derived indices aligns with personalized medicine trends, showcasing the potential for CAD risk stratification.

      We appreciate reviewer #2 for the positive assessment and for the valuable and constructive comments on our manuscript.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The link between autocorrelation and plaque vulnerability remains speculative without a proposed biological explanation. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point about the need for a clearer biological explanation linking glucose autocorrelation to plaque vulnerability. We fully agree with the reviewer that the detailed biological mechanisms underlying this relationship are not yet fully understood, as noted in our Discussion section.

      However, we would like to emphasize the theoretical basis that supports the clinical relevance of autocorrelation. Our results show that glucose profiles with identical mean and variability can exhibit different autocorrelation patterns, highlighting that conventional measures such as mean or variance alone may not fully capture inter-individual metabolic differences. Incorporating autocorrelation analysis provides a more comprehensive characterization of metabolic states. Consequently, incorporating autocorrelation measures alongside traditional diabetes diagnostic criteria - such as fasting glucose, HbA1c and PG120, which primarily reflect only the “mean” component - can improve predictive accuracy for various clinical outcomes.

      Furthermore, our previous research has shown that glucose autocorrelation reflects changes in insulin clearance (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Improved detection of decreased glucose handling capacities via continuous glucose monitoring-derived indices.” Communications Medicine 5.1 (2025): 103.). The relationship between insulin clearance and cardiovascular disease has been well documented (Randrianarisoa, Elko, et al. “Reduced insulin clearance is linked to subclinical atherosclerosis in individuals at risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus.” Scientific reports 10.1 (2020): 22453.), and the mechanisms described in this prior work may potentially explain the association between glucose autocorrelation and clinical outcomes observed in the present study. 

      Rather than a limitation, we view these currently unexplored associations as an opportunity for further research. The identification of autocorrelation as a key glycemic feature introduces a new dimension to metabolic regulation that could serve as the basis for future investigations exploring the molecular mechanisms underlying these patterns.

      While we agree that further research at the cellular and molecular level is needed to fully validate these findings, we believe that our study provides a theoretical framework to support the clinical utility of autocorrelation analysis in glucose monitoring, and that this could serve as the basis for future investigations exploring the molecular mechanisms underlying these autocorrelation patterns, which adds to the broad interest of this study. Regarding the physical mechanisms linking autocorrelation and clinical outcomes, we have added the following sentences in the Discussion section (lines 331-339, 341-352): 

      This study also provided evidence that autocorrelation can vary independently from the mean and variance components using simulated data. In addition, simulated glucose dynamics indicated that even individuals with high AC_Var did not necessarily have high maximum and minimum blood glucose levels. This study also indicated that these three components qualitatively corresponded to the four distinct glucose patterns observed after glucose administration, which were identified in a previous study (Hulman et al., 2018). Thus, the inclusion of autocorrelation in addition to mean and variance may improve the characterization of inter-individual differences in glucose regulation and improve the predictive accuracy of various clinical outcomes.

      Despite increasing evidence linking glycemic variability to oxidative stress and endothelial dysfunction in T2DM complications (Ceriello et al., 2008; Monnier et al., 2008), the biological mechanisms underlying the independent predictive value of autocorrelation remain to be elucidated. Our previous work has shown that glucose autocorrelation is influenced by insulin clearance (Sugimoto et al., 2025), a process known to be associated with cardiovascular disease risk (Randrianarisoa et al., 2020). Therefore, the molecular pathways linking glucose autocorrelation to cardiovascular disease may share common mechanisms with those linking insulin clearance to cardiovascular disease. Although previous studies have primarily focused on investigating the molecular mechanisms associated with mean glucose levels and glycemic variability, our findings open new avenues for exploring the molecular basis of glucose autocorrelation, potentially revealing novel therapeutic targets for preventing diabetic complications.

      (2) The relatively small sample size (n=270) limits statistical power, especially when stratified by glucose tolerance levels. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding sample size and its potential impact on statistical power, especially when stratified by glucose tolerance levels. We fully agree that a larger sample size would increase statistical power, especially for subgroup analyses.

      We would like to clarify several points regarding the statistical power and validation of our findings. Our sample size followed established methodological frameworks, including the guidelines outlined by Muyembe Asenahabi, Bostely, and Peters Anselemo Ikoha. “Scientific research sample size determination.” (2023). These guidelines balance the risks of inadequate sample size with the challenges of unnecessarily large samples. For our primary analysis examining the correlation between CGM-derived measures and %NC, power calculations (a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4) indicated that a minimum of 47 participants was required. Our sample size of 53 exceeded this threshold and allowed us to detect statistically significant correlations, as described in the Methods section. Moreover, to provide transparency about the precision of our estimates, we have included confidence intervals for all coefficients. 

      Furthermore, our sample size aligns with previous studies investigating the associations between glucose profiles and clinical parameters, including Torimoto, Keiichi, et al. “Relationship between fluctuations in glucose levels measured by continuous glucose monitoring and vascular endothelial dysfunction in type 2 diabetes mellitus.” Cardiovascular Diabetology 12 (2013): 1-7. (n=57), Hall, Heather, et al. “Glucotypes reveal new patterns of glucose dysregulation.” PLoS biology 16.7 (2018): e2005143. (n=57), and Metwally, Ahmed A., et al. “Prediction of metabolic subphenotypes of type 2 diabetes via continuous glucose monitoring and machine learning.” Nature Biomedical Engineering (2024): 1-18. (n=32).

      Regarding the classification of glucose dynamics components, we have conducted additional validation across diverse populations including 64 Japanese, 53 American, and 100 Chinese individuals. These validation efforts have consistently supported our identification of three independent glucose dynamics components.

      However, we acknowledge the importance of further validation on a larger scale. To address this, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals with two years of followup (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which confirmed our main finding that glucose dynamics consist of mean, variance, and autocorrelation. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, it provides further support for the clinical relevance and generalizability of our findings.

      To address the sample size considerations, we have added the following sentences in the Discussion section (lines 409-414): 

      Although our analysis included four datasets with a total of 270 individuals, and our sample size of 53 met the required threshold based on power calculations with a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4, we acknowledge that the sample size may still be considered relatively small for a comprehensive assessment of these relationships. To further validate these findings, larger prospective studies with diverse populations are needed.

      (3) Strict participant selection criteria may reduce applicability to broader populations. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the potential impact of strict participant selection criteria on the broader applicability of our findings. We acknowledge that extending validation to more diverse populations would improve the generalizability of our findings.

      Our study includes validation cohorts from diverse populations, including 64 Japanese, 53 American and 100 Chinese individuals. These cohorts include a wide range of metabolic states, from healthy individuals to those with diabetes, ensuring validation across different clinical conditions. However, we acknowledge that further validation in additional populations and clinical settings would strengthen our conclusions. To address this, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which confirmed our main finding that glucose dynamics consist of mean, variance, and autocorrelation. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, it provides further support for the clinical relevance and generalizability of our findings.

      We have added the following text to the Discussion section to address these considerations (lines 409-414, 354-361):

      Although our analysis included four datasets with a total of 270 individuals, and our sample size of 53 met the required threshold based on power calculations with a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4, we acknowledge that the sample size may still be considered relatively small for a comprehensive assessment of these relationships. To further validate these findings, larger prospective studies with diverse populations are needed.

      Although our LASSO and factor analysis indicated that CGM-derived measures were strong predictors of %NC, this does not mean that other clinical parameters, such as lipids and blood pressure, are irrelevant in T2DM complications. Our study specifically focused on characterizing glucose dynamics, and we analyzed individuals with well-controlled serum cholesterol and blood pressure to reduce confounding effects. While we anticipate that inclusion of a more diverse population would not alter our primary findings regarding glucose dynamics, it is likely that a broader data set would reveal additional predictive contributions from lipid and blood pressure parameters.

      (4) CGM-derived indices like AC_Var and ADRR may be too complex for routine clinical use without simplified models or guidelines. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern about the complexity of CGM-derived indices such as AC_Var and ADRR for routine clinical use. We acknowledge that for these indices to be of practical use, they must be both interpretable and easily accessible to healthcare providers. 

      To address this concern, we have developed an easy-to-use web application that automatically calculates these measures, including AC_Var, mean glucose levels, and glucose variability (https://cgmregressionapp2.streamlit.app/). This tool eliminates the need for manual calculations, making these indices more practical for clinical implementation.

      Regarding interpretability, we acknowledge that establishing specific clinical guidelines would enhance the practical utility of these measures. For example, defining a cut-off value for AC_Var above which the risk of diabetes complications increases significantly would provide clearer clinical guidance. However, given our current sample size limitations and our predefined objective of investigating correlations among indices, we have taken a conservative approach by focusing on the correlation between AC_Var and %NC rather than establishing definitive cutoffs. This approach intentionally avoids problematic statistical practices like phacking. It is not realistic to expect a single study to accomplish everything from proposing a new concept to conducting large-scale clinical trials to establishing clinical guidelines. Establishing clinical guidelines typically requires the accumulation of multiple studies over many years. Recognizing this reality, we have been careful in our manuscript to make modest claims about the discovery of new “correlations” rather than exaggerated claims about immediate routine clinical use.

      To address this limitation, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals in the next study (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which proposed clinically relevant cutoffs and reference ranges for AC_Var and other CGM-derived indices. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, by integrating automated calculation tools with clear clinical thresholds, we expect to make these measures more accessible for clinical use.

      We have added the following text to the Discussion section to address these considerations (lines 415-419):

      While CGM-derived indices such as AC_Var and ADRR hold promise for CAD risk assessment, their complexity may present challenges for routine clinical implementation. To improve usability, we have developed a web-based calculator that automates these calculations. However, defining clinically relevant thresholds and reference ranges requires further validation in larger cohorts.

      (5) The study does not compare CGM-derived indices to existing advanced CAD risk models, limiting the ability to assess their true predictive superiority. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the comparison of CGMderived indices with existing CAD risk models. Given that our study population consisted of individuals with well-controlled total cholesterol and blood pressure levels, a direct comparison with the Framingham Risk Score for Hard Coronary Heart Disease (Wilson, Peter WF, et al. “Prediction of coronary heart disease using risk factor categories.” Circulation 97.18 (1998): 1837-1847.) may introduce inherent bias, as these factors are key components of the score.

      Nevertheless, to further assess the predictive value of the CGM-derived indices, we performed additional analyses using linear regression to predict %NC. Using the Framingham Risk Score, we obtained an R² of 0.04 and an Akaike Information Criterion (AIC) of 330. In contrast, our proposed model incorporating the three glycemic parameters - CGM_Mean, CGM_Std, and AC_Var - achieved a significantly improved R² of 0.36 and a lower AIC of 321, indicating superior predictive accuracy. 

      We have added the following text to the Result section (lines 115-122):

      The regression model including CGM_Mean, CGM_Std and AC_Var to predict %NC achieved an R² of 0.36 and an Akaike Information Criterion (AIC) of 321. Each of these indices showed statistically significant independent positive correlations with %NC (Fig. 1A). In contrast, the model using conventional glycemic markers (FBG, HbA1c, and PG120) yielded an R² of only 0.05 and an AIC of 340 (Fig. 1B). Similarly, the model using the Framingham Risk Score for Hard Coronary Heart Disease (Wilson et al., 1998) showed limited predictive value, with an R² of 0.04 and an AIC of 330 (Fig. 1C).

      (6) Varying CGM sampling intervals (5-minute vs. 15-minute) were not thoroughly analyzed for impact on results. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the potential impact of different CGM sampling intervals on our results. To assess the robustness of our findings across different sampling frequencies, we performed a down sampling analysis by converting our 5minute interval data to 15-minute intervals. The AC_Var value calculated from 15-minute intervals was significantly correlated with that calculated from 5-minute intervals (R = 0.99, 95% CI: 0.97-1.00). Furthermore, the regression model using CGM_Mean, CGM_Std, and AC_Var from 15-minute intervals to predict %NC achieved an R² of 0.36 and an AIC of 321, identical to the model using 5-minute intervals. These results indicate that our results are robust to variations in CGM sampling frequency. 

      We have added this analysis to the Result section (lines 122-125):

      The AC_Var computed from 15-minute CGM sampling was nearly identical to that computed from 5-minute sampling (R = 0.99, 95% CI: 0.97-1.00) (Fig. S1A), and the regression using the 15‑min features yielded almost the same performance (R² = 0.36; AIC = 321; Fig. S1B).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      We appreciate the reviewer for the critical review of the manuscript and the valuable comments. We have carefully considered the reviewer’s comments and have revised our manuscript accordingly. The reviewer’s comments in this letter are in Bold and Italics.

      Summary:

      This is a retrospective analysis of 53 individuals over 26 features (12 clinical phenotypes, 12 CGM features, and 2 autocorrelation features) to examine which features were most informative in predicting percent necrotic core (%NC) as a parameter for coronary plaque vulnerability. Multiple regression analysis demonstrated a better ability to predict %NC from 3 selected CGM-derived features than 3 selected clinical phenotypes. LASSO regularization and partial least squares (PLS) with VIP scores were used to identify 4 CGM features that most contribute to the precision of %NC. Using factor analysis they identify 3 components that have CGM-related features: value (relating to the value of blood glucose), variability (relating to glucose variability), and autocorrelation (composed of the two autocorrelation features). These three groupings appeared in the 3 validation cohorts and when performing hierarchical clustering. To demonstrate how these three features change, a simulation was created to allow the user to examine these features under different conditions.

      We appreciate reviewer #3 for the valuable and constructive comments on our manuscript.

      The goal of this study was to identify CGM features that relate to %NC. Through multiple feature selection methods, they arrive at 3 components: value, variability, and autocorrelation. While the feature list is highly correlated, the authors take steps to ensure feature selection is robust. There is a lack of clarity of what each component (value, variability, and autocorrelation) includes as while similar CGM indices fall within each component, there appear to be some indices that appear as relevant to value in one dataset and to variability in the validation. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the classification of CGMderived measures into the three components: value, variability, and autocorrelation. As the reviewer correctly points out, some measures may load differently between the value and variability components in different datasets. However, we believe that this variability reflects the inherent mathematical properties of these measures rather than a limitation of our study.

      For example, the HBGI clusters differently across datasets due to its dependence on the number of glucose readings above a threshold. In populations where mean glucose levels are predominantly below this threshold, the HBGI is more sensitive to glucose variability (Fig. S3A). Conversely, in populations with a wider range of mean glucose levels, HBGI correlates more strongly with mean glucose levels (Fig. 3A). This context-dependent behaviour is expected given the mathematical properties of these measures and does not indicate an inconsistency in our classification approach.

      Importantly, our main findings remain robust: CGM-derived measures systematically fall into three components-value, variability, and autocorrelation. Traditional CGM-derived measures primarily reflect either value or variability, and this categorization is consistently observed across datasets. While specific indices such as HBGI may shift classification depending on population characteristics, the overall structure of CGM data remains stable.

      To address these considerations, we have added the following text to the Discussion section (lines 388-396):

      Some indices, such as HBGI, showed variation in classification across datasets, with some populations showing higher factor loadings in the “mean” component and others in the “variance” component. This variation occurs because HBGI calculations depend on the number of glucose readings above a threshold. In populations where mean glucose levels are predominantly below this threshold, the HBGI is more sensitive to glucose variability (Fig. S5A). Conversely, in populations with a wider range of mean glucose levels, the HBGI correlates more strongly with mean glucose levels (Fig. 3A). Despite these differences, our validation analyses confirm that CGM-derived indices consistently cluster into three components: mean, variance, and autocorrelation.

      We are sceptical about statements of significance without documentation of p-values. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding statistical significance and the documentation of p values.

      First, given the multiple comparisons in our study, we used q values rather than p values, as shown in Figure 1D. Q values provide a more rigorous statistical framework for controlling the false discovery rate in multiple testing scenarios, thereby reducing the likelihood of false positives.

      Second, our statistical reporting follows established guidelines, including those of the New England Journal of Medicine (Harrington, David, et al. “New guidelines for statistical reporting in the journal.” New England Journal of Medicine 381.3 (2019): 285-286.), which recommend that “reporting of exploratory end points should be limited to point estimates of effects with 95% confidence intervals” and that “replace p values with estimates of effects or association and 95% confidence intervals”. According to these guidelines, p values should not be reported in this type of study. We determined significance based on whether these 95% confidence intervals excluded zero - a method for determining whether an association is significantly different from zero (Tan, Sze Huey, and Say Beng Tan. "The correct interpretation of confidence intervals." Proceedings of Singapore Healthcare 19.3 (2010): 276-278.). 

      For the sake of transparency, we provide p values for readers who may be interested, although we emphasize that they should not be the basis for interpretation, as discussed in the referenced guidelines. Specifically, in Figure 1A-B, the p values for CGM_Mean, CGM_Std, and AC_Var were 0.02, 0.02, and <0.01, respectively, while those for FBG, HbA1c, and PG120 were 0.83,

      0.91, and 0.25, respectively. In Figure 3C, the p values for factors 1–5 were 0.03, 0.03, 0.03, 0.24, and 0.87, respectively, and in Figure S8C, the p values for factors 1–3 were <0.01, <0.01, and 0.20, respectively.

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify our statistical methodology and are happy to provide additional details if needed.

      While hesitations remain, the ability of these authors to find groupings of these many CGM metrics in relation to %NC is of interest. The believability of the associations is impeded by an obtuse presentation of the results with core data (i.e. correlation plots between CGM metrics and %NC) buried in the supplement while main figures contain plots of numerical estimates from models which would be more usefully presented in supplementary tables. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the presentation of our results and recognize the importance of ensuring clarity and accessibility of the core data. 

      The central finding of our study is twofold: first, that the numerous CGM-derived measures can be systematically classified into three distinct components-mean, variance, and autocorrelation-and second, that each of these components is independently associated with %NC. This insight cannot be derived simply from examining scatter plots of individual correlations, which are provided in the Supplementary Figures. Instead, it emerges from our statistical analyses in the main figures, including multiple regression models that reveal the independent contributions of these components to %NC.

      We acknowledge the reviewer’s concern regarding the accessibility of key data. To improve clarity, we have moved several scatter plots from the Supplementary Figures to the main figures (Fig. 1D-J) to allow readers to more directly visualize the relationships between CGM-derived measures and %NC. We believe this revision improved the transparency and readability of our results while maintaining the rigor of our analytical approach.

      Given the small sample size in the primary analysis, there is a lot of modeling done with parameters estimated where simpler measures would serve and be more convincing as they require less data manipulation. A major example of this is that the pairwise correlation/covariance between CGM_mean, CGM_std, and AC_var is not shown and would be much more compelling in the claim that these are independent factors.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s feedback on our statistical analysis and data presentation. The correlations between CGM_Mean, CGM_Std, and AC_Var were documented in Figure S1B. However, to improve accessibility and clarity, we have moved these correlation analyses to the main figures (Fig. 1F). 

      Regarding our modeling approach, we chose LASSO and PLS methods because they are wellestablished techniques that are particularly suited to scenarios with many input variables and a relatively small sample size. These methods have been used in the literature as robust approaches for variable selection under such conditions (Tibshirani R. 1996. Regression shrinkage and selection via the lasso. J R Stat Soc 58:267–288. Wold S, Sjöström M, Eriksson L. 2001. PLS-regression: a basic tool of chemometrics. Chemometrics Intellig Lab Syst 58:109–130. Pei X, Qi D, Liu J, Si H, Huang S, Zou S, Lu D, Li Z. 2023. Screening marker genes of type 2 diabetes mellitus in mouse lacrimal gland by LASSO regression. Sci Rep 13:6862. Wang C, Kong H, Guan Y, Yang J, Gu J, Yang S, Xu G. 2005. Plasma phospholipid metabolic profiling and biomarkers of type 2 diabetes mellitus based on high-performance liquid chromatography/electrospray mass spectrometry and multivariate statistical analysis.

      Anal Chem 77:4108–4116.). 

      Lack of methodological detail is another challenge. For example, the time period of CGM metrics or CGM placement in the primary study in relation to the IVUS-derived measurements of coronary plaques is unclear. Are they temporally distant or proximal/ concurrent with the PCI? 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s important question regarding the temporal relationship between CGM measurements and IVUS-derived plaque assessments. As described in our previous work (Otowa‐Suematsu, Natsu, et al. “Comparison of the relationship between multiple parameters of glycemic variability and coronary plaque vulnerability assessed by virtual histology–intravascular ultrasound.” Journal of Diabetes Investigation 9.3 (2018): 610615.), all individuals underwent continuous glucose monitoring for at least three consecutive days within the seven-day period prior to the PCI procedure. To improve clarity for readers, we have added the following text to the Methods section (lines 440-441):

      All individuals underwent CGM for at least three consecutive days within the seven-day period prior to the PCI procedure.

      A patient undergoing PCI for coronary intervention would be expected to have physiological and iatrogenic glycemic disturbances that do not reflect their baseline state. This is not considered or discussed. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding potential glycemic disturbances associated with PCI. As described in our previous work (Otowa‐Suematsu, Natsu, et al. “Comparison of the relationship between multiple parameters of glycemic variability and coronary plaque vulnerability assessed by virtual histology–intravascular ultrasound.” Journal of Diabetes Investigation 9.3 (2018): 610-615.), all CGM measurements were performed before the PCI procedure. This temporal separation ensures that the glycemic patterns analyzed in our study reflect the baseline metabolic state of the patients, rather than any physiological or iatrogenic effects of PCI. To avoid any misunderstanding, we have clarified this temporal relationship in the revised manuscript (lines 440-441):

      All individuals underwent CGM for at least three consecutive days within the seven-day period prior to the PCI procedure.

      The attempts at validation in external cohorts, Japanese, American, and Chinese are very poorly detailed. We could only find even an attempt to examine cardiovascular parameters in the Chinese data set but the outcome variables are unspecified with regard to what macrovascular events are included, their temporal relation to the CGM metrics, etc. Notably macrovascular event diagnoses are very different from the coronary plaque necrosis quantification. This could be a source of strength in the findings if carefully investigated and detailed but due to the lack of detail seems like an apples-to-oranges comparison. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the validation cohorts and the need for greater clarity, particularly in the Chinese dataset. We acknowledge that our initial description lacked sufficient methodological detail, and we have expanded the Methods section to provide a more comprehensive explanation.

      For the Chinese dataset, the data collection protocol was previously documented (Zhao, Qinpei, et al. “Chinese diabetes datasets for data-driven machine learning.” Scientific Data 10.1 (2023): 35.). Briefly, trained research staff used standardized questionnaires to collect demographic and clinical information, including diabetes diagnosis, treatment history, comorbidities, and medication use. Physical examinations included anthropometric measurements, and body mass index was calculated using standard protocols. CGM was performed using the FreeStyle Libre H device (Abbott Diabetes Care, UK), which records interstitial glucose levels at 15-minute intervals for up to 14 days. Laboratory measurements, including metabolic panels, lipid profiles, and renal function tests, were obtained within six months of CGM placement. While previous studies have linked necrotic core to macrovascular events (Xie, Yong, et al. “Clinical outcome of nonculprit plaque ruptures in patients with acute coronary syndrome in the PROSPECT study.” JACC: Cardiovascular Imaging 7.4 (2014): 397-405.), we acknowledge the limitations of the cardiovascular outcomes in the Chinese data set. These outcomes were extracted from medical records rather than standardized diagnostic procedures or imaging studies. To address these concerns, we have added the following text to the Methods section (lines 496-504):

      The data collection protocol for the Chinese dataset was previously documented (Zhao et al., 2023). Briefly, trained research staff used standardized questionnaires to collect demographic and clinical information, including diabetes diagnosis, treatment history, comorbidities, and medication use. CGM records interstitial glucose levels at 15-minute intervals for up to 14 days. Laboratory measurements, including metabolic panels, lipid profiles, and renal function tests, were obtained within six months of CGM placement. While previous studies have linked necrotic core to macrovascular events, we acknowledge the limitations of the cardiovascular outcomes in the Chinese data set. These outcomes were extracted from medical records rather than from standardized diagnostic procedures or imaging studies.

      Finally, the simulations at the end are not relevant to the main claims of the paper and we would recommend removing them for the coherence of this manuscript. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s feedback regarding the relevance of the simulation component of our manuscript. The primary contribution of our study goes beyond demonstrating correlations between CGM-derived measures and %NC; it highlights three fundamental components of glycemic patterns-mean, variability, and autocorrelation-and their independent relationships with coronary plaque characteristics. The simulations are included to illustrate how glycemic patterns with identical means and variability can have different autocorrelation structures. Because temporal autocorrelation can be conceptually difficult to interpret, these visualizations were intended to provide intuitive examples for the readers. 

      However, we agree with the reviewer’s concern about the coherence of the manuscript. In response, we have streamlined the simulation section by removing simulations that do not directly support our primary conclusions (old version of the manuscript, lines 239-246, 502526), while retaining only those that enhance understanding of the three glycemic components. Regarding reviewer 2’s minor comment #4, we acknowledge that autocorrelation can be challenging to understand intuitively. To address this, we kept Fig. 4A with a brief description.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer 2# (Recommendations for the authors):

      Summary:

      The study by Sugimoto et. al. investigates the association between components of glucose dynamics-value, variability, and autocorrelation-and coronary plaque vulnerability (%NC) in patients with varying glucose tolerance levels. The research identifies three key factors that independently predict %NC and highlights the potential of continuous glucose monitoring (CGM)-derived indices in risk assessment for coronary artery disease (CAD). Using robust statistical methods and validation across diverse populations, the study emphasizes the limitations of conventional diagnostic markers and suggests a novel, CGMbased approach for improved predictive performance While the study demonstrates significant novelty and potential impact, several issues must be addressed by the authors.

      Major Comments:

      (1) The study demonstrates originality by introducing autocorrelation as a novel predictive factor in glucose dynamics, a perspective rarely explored in prior research. While the innovation is commendable, the biological mechanisms linking autocorrelation to plaque vulnerability remain speculative. Providing a hypothesis or potential pathways would enhance the scientific impact and practical relevance of this finding.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s point about the need for a clearer biological explanation linking glucose autocorrelation to plaque vulnerability. Our previous research has shown that glucose autocorrelation reflects changes in insulin clearance (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Improved detection of decreased glucose handling capacities via continuous glucose monitoring-derived indices.” Communications Medicine 5.1 (2025): 103.). The relationship between insulin clearance and cardiovascular disease has been well documented (Randrianarisoa, Elko, et al. “Reduced insulin clearance is linked to subclinical atherosclerosis in individuals at risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus.” Scientific reports 10.1 (2020): 22453.), and the mechanisms described in this prior work may potentially explain the association between glucose autocorrelation and clinical outcomes observed in the present study. We have added the following sentences to the Discussion section (lines 341-352):

      Despite increasing evidence linking glycemic variability to oxidative stress and endothelial dysfunction in T2DM complications (Ceriello et al., 2008; Monnier et al., 2008), the biological mechanisms underlying the independent predictive value of autocorrelation remain to be elucidated. Our previous work has shown that glucose autocorrelation is influenced by insulin clearance (Sugimoto et al., 2025), a process known to be associated with cardiovascular disease risk (Randrianarisoa et al., 2020). Therefore, the molecular pathways linking glucose autocorrelation to cardiovascular disease may share common mechanisms with those linking insulin clearance to cardiovascular disease. Although previous studies have primarily focused on investigating the molecular mechanisms associated with mean glucose levels and glycemic variability, our findings open new avenues for exploring the molecular basis of glucose autocorrelation, potentially revealing novel therapeutic targets for preventing diabetic complications.

      (2) The inclusion of datasets from Japan, America, and China adds a valuable cross-cultural dimension to the study, showcasing its potential applicability across diverse populations. Despite the multi-regional validation, the sample size (n=270) is relatively small, especially when stratified by glucose tolerance categories. This limits the statistical power and applicability to diverse populations. A larger, multi-center cohort would strengthen conclusions.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding sample size and its potential impact on statistical power, especially when stratified by glucose tolerance levels. We fully agree that a larger sample size would increase statistical power, especially for subgroup analyses.

      We would like to clarify several points regarding the statistical power and validation of our findings. Our study adheres to established methodological frameworks for sample size determination, including the guidelines outlined by Muyembe Asenahabi, Bostely, and Peters Anselemo Ikoha. “Scientific research sample size determination.” (2023). These guidelines balance the risks of inadequate sample size with the challenges of unnecessarily large samples. For our primary analysis examining the correlation between CGM-derived measures and %NC, power calculations with a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4 indicated that a minimum of 47 participants was required. Our sample size of 53 exceeded this threshold and allowed us to detect statistically significant correlations, as described in the Methods section.

      Furthermore, our sample size aligns with previous studies investigating the associations between glucose profiles and clinical parameters, including Torimoto, Keiichi, et al. “Relationship between fluctuations in glucose levels measured by continuous glucose monitoring and vascular endothelial dysfunction in type 2 diabetes mellitus.” Cardiovascular Diabetology 12 (2013): 1-7. (n=57), Hall, Heather, et al. “Glucotypes reveal new patterns of glucose dysregulation.” PLoS biology 16.7 (2018): e2005143. (n=57), and Metwally, Ahmed A., et al. “Prediction of metabolic subphenotypes of type 2 diabetes via continuous glucose monitoring and machine learning.” Nature Biomedical Engineering (2024): 1-18. (n=32). Moreover, to provide transparency about the precision of our estimates, we have included confidence intervals for all coefficients.

      Regarding the classification of glucose dynamics components, we have conducted additional validation across diverse populations including 64 Japanese, 53 American, and 100 Chinese individuals. These validation efforts have consistently supported our identification of three independent glucose dynamics components. Furthermore, the primary objective of our study was not to assess rare events, but rather to demonstrate that glucose dynamics can be decomposed into three main factors - mean, variance and autocorrelation - whereas traditional measures have primarily captured mean and variance without adequately reflecting autocorrelation. We believe that our current sample size effectively addresses this objective. 

      However, we acknowledge the importance of further validation on a larger scale. To address this, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals with two years of followup (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which confirmed our main finding that glucose dynamics consist of mean, variance, and autocorrelation. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, it provides further support for the clinical relevance and generalizability of our findings.

      To address the sample size considerations, we have added the following sentences to the Discussion section (lines 409-414):

      Although our analysis included four datasets with a total of 270 individuals, and our sample size of 53 met the required threshold based on power calculations with a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4, we acknowledge that the sample size may still be considered relatively small for a comprehensive assessment of these relationships. To further validate these findings, larger prospective studies with diverse populations are needed.

      (3) The study focuses on a well-characterized cohort with controlled cholesterol and blood pressure levels, reducing confounding variables. However, this stringent selection might exclude individuals with significant variability in these parameters, potentially limiting the study's applicability to broader, real-world populations. The authors should discuss how this may affect generalizability and potential bias in the results.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the potential impact of strict participant selection criteria on the broader applicability of our findings. We acknowledge that extending validation to more diverse populations would improve the generalizability of our findings.

      Our validation strategy included multiple cohorts from different regions, specifically 64 Japanese, 53 American and 100 Chinese individuals. These cohorts represent a clinically diverse population, including both healthy individuals and those with diabetes, allowing for validation across a broad spectrum of metabolic conditions. However, we recognize that further validation in additional populations and clinical settings would strengthen our conclusions. To address this, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals with two years of follow-up (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which confirmed our main finding that glucose dynamics consist of mean, variance, and autocorrelation. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, it provides further support for the clinical relevance and generalizability of our findings.

      We have added the following text to the Discussion section to address these considerations (lines 409-414, 354-361):

      Although our analysis included four datasets with a total of 270 individuals, and our sample size of 53 met the required threshold based on power calculations with a type I error of 0.05, a power of 0.8, and an expected correlation coefficient of 0.4, we acknowledge that the sample size may still be considered relatively small for a comprehensive assessment of these relationships. To further validate these findings, larger prospective studies with diverse populations are needed.

      Although our LASSO and factor analysis indicated that CGM-derived measures were strong predictors of %NC, this does not mean that other clinical parameters, such as lipids and blood pressure, are irrelevant in T2DM complications. Our study specifically focused on characterizing glucose dynamics, and we analyzed individuals with well-controlled serum cholesterol and blood pressure to reduce confounding effects. While we anticipate that inclusion of a more diverse population would not alter our primary findings regarding glucose dynamics, it is likely that a broader data set would reveal additional predictive contributions from lipid and blood pressure parameters.

      (4) The study effectively highlights the potential of CGM-derived indices as a tool for CAD risk assessment, a concept that aligns with contemporary advancements in personalized medicine. Despite its potential, the complexity of CGM-derived indices like AC_Var and ADRR may hinder their routine clinical adoption. Providing simplified models or actionable guidelines would facilitate their integration into everyday practice.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern about the complexity of CGM-derived indices such as AC_Var and ADRR for routine clinical use. We recognize that for these indices to be of practical use, they must be both interpretable and easily accessible to healthcare providers.

      To address this, we have developed an easy-to-use web application that automatically calculates these measures, including AC_Var, mean glucose levels, and glucose variability. By eliminating the need for manual calculations, this tool streamlines the process and makes these indices more practical for clinical use.

      Regarding interpretability, we acknowledge that establishing specific clinical guidelines would enhance the practical utility of these measures. For example, defining a cut-off value for AC_Var above which the risk of diabetes complications increases significantly would provide clearer clinical guidance. However, given our current sample size limitations and our predefined objective of investigating correlations among indices, we have taken a conservative approach by focusing on the correlation between AC_Var and %NC rather than establishing definitive cutoffs. This approach intentionally avoids problematic statistical practices like phacking. It is not realistic to expect a single study to accomplish everything from proposing a new concept to conducting large-scale clinical trials to establishing clinical guidelines. Establishing clinical guidelines typically requires the accumulation of multiple studies over many years. Recognizing this reality, we have been careful in our manuscript to make modest claims about the discovery of new “correlations” rather than exaggerated claims about immediate routine clinical use.

      To address this limitation, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals in the next study (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which proposed clinically relevant cutoffs and reference ranges for AC_Var and other CGM-derived indices. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper; however, by integrating automated calculation tools with clear clinical thresholds, we expect to make these measures more accessible for clinical use.

      We have added the following text to the Discussion section to address these considerations (lines 415-419):

      While CGM-derived indices such as AC_Var and ADRR hold promise for CAD risk assessment, their complexity may present challenges for routine clinical implementation. To improve usability, we have developed a web-based calculator that automates these calculations. However, defining clinically relevant thresholds and reference ranges requires further validation in larger cohorts.

      (5) The exclusion of TIR from the main analysis is noted, but its relevance in diabetes management warrants further exploration. Integrating TIR as an outcome measure could provide additional clinical insights.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the potential role of time in range (TIR) as an outcome measure in our study. Because TIR is primarily influenced by the mean and variance of glucose levels, it does not fully capture the distinct role of glucose autocorrelation, which was the focus of our investigation.

      To clarify this point, we have expanded the Discussion section as follows (lines 380-388):

      Although time in range (TIR) was not included in the main analyses due to the relatively small number of T2DM patients and the predominance of participants with TIR >70%, our results demonstrate that CGM-derived indices outperformed conventional markers such as FBG, HbA1c, and PG120 in predicting %NC. Furthermore, multiple regression analysis between factor scores and TIR revealed that only factor 1 (mean) and factor 2 (variance) were significantly associated with TIR (Fig. S8C, D). This finding confirms the presence of three distinct components in glucose dynamics and highlights the added value of examining AC_Var as an independent glycemic feature beyond conventional CGM-derived measures.

      (6) While the study reflects a commitment to understanding CAD risks in a global context by including datasets from Japan, America, and China, the authors should provide demographic details (e.g., age, gender, socioeconomic status) and discuss how these factors might influence glucose dynamics and coronary plaque vulnerability.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the potential influence of demographic factors on glucose dynamics and coronary plaque vulnerability. We examined these relationships and found that age and sex had minimal effects on glucose dynamics characteristics, as shown in Figure S8A and S8B. These findings suggest that our primary conclusions regarding glucose dynamics and coronary risk remain robust across demographic groups within our data set.

      To address the reviewer’s suggestion, we have added the following discussion (lines 361-368):

      In our analysis of demographic factors, we found that age and gender had minimal influence on glucose dynamics characteristics (Fig. S8A, B), suggesting that our findings regarding the relationship between glucose dynamics and coronary risk are robust across different demographic groups within our dataset. Future studies involving larger and more diverse populations would be valuable to comprehensively elucidate the potential influence of age, gender, and other demographic factors on glucose dynamics characteristics and their relationship to cardiovascular risk.

      (7) While the article shows CGM-derived indices outperform traditional markers (e.g., HbA1c, FBG, PG120), it does not compare these indices against existing advanced risk models (e.g., Framingham Risk Score for CAD). A direct comparison would strengthen the claim of superiority.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the comparison of CGMderived indices with existing CAD risk models. Given that our study population consisted of individuals with well-controlled total cholesterol and blood pressure levels, a direct comparison with the Framingham Risk Score for Hard Coronary Heart Disease (Wilson, Peter WF, et al. “Prediction of coronary heart disease using risk factor categories.” Circulation 97.18 (1998): 1837-1847.) may introduce inherent bias, as these factors are key components of the score.

      Nevertheless, to further assess the predictive value of the CGM-derived indices, we performed additional analyses using linear regression to predict %NC. Using the Framingham Risk Score, we obtained an R² of 0.04 and an Akaike Information Criterion (AIC) of 330. In contrast, our proposed model incorporating the three glycemic parameters - CGM_Mean, CGM_Std, and AC_Var - achieved a significantly improved R² of 0.36 and a lower AIC of 321, indicating superior predictive accuracy. We have updated the Result section as follows (lines 115-122):

      The regression model including CGM_Mean, CGM_Std and AC_Var to predict %NC achieved an R<sup>2</sup> of 0.36 and an Akaike Information Criterion (AIC) of 321. Each of these indices showed statistically significant independent positive correlations with %NC (Fig. 1A). In contrast, the model using conventional glycemic markers (FBG, HbA1c, and PG120) yielded an R² of only 0.05 and an AIC of 340 (Fig. 1B). Similarly, the model using the Framingham Risk Score for Hard Coronary Heart Disease (Wilson et al., 1998) showed limited predictive value, with an R² of 0.04 and an AIC of 330 (Fig. 1C).

      (8) The study mentions varying CGM sampling intervals across datasets (5-minute vs. 15minute). Authors should employ sensitivity analysis to assess the impact of these differences on the results. This would help clarify whether higher-resolution data significantly improves predictive performance.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the potential impact of different CGM sampling intervals on our results. To assess the robustness of our findings across different sampling frequencies, we performed a down sampling analysis by converting our 5minute interval data to 15-minute intervals. The AC_Var value calculated from 15-minute intervals was significantly correlated with that calculated from 5-minute intervals (R = 0.99, 95% CI: 0.97-1.00). Consequently, the main findings remained consistent across both sampling frequencies, indicating that our results are robust to variations in temporal resolution. We have added this analysis to the Result section (lines 122-126):

      The AC_Var computed from 15-minute CGM sampling was nearly identical to that computed from 5-minute sampling (R = 0.99, 95% CI: 0.97-1.00) (Fig. S1A), and the regression using the 15‑min features yielded almost the same performance (R<sup>2</sup>  = 0.36; AIC = 321; Fig. S1B).

      (9) The identification of actionable components in glucose dynamics lays the groundwork for clinical stratification. The authors could explore the use of CGM-derived indices to develop a simple framework for stratifying risk into certain categories (e.g., low, moderate, high). This could improve clinical relevance and utility for healthcare providers.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion regarding the potential for CGMderived indices to support clinical stratification. We completely agree with the idea that establishing risk categories (e.g., low, moderate, high) based on specific thresholds would enhance the clinical utility of these measures. However, given our current sample size limitations and our predefined objective of investigating correlations among indices, we have taken a conservative approach by focusing on the correlation between AC_Var and %NC rather than establishing definitive cutoffs. This approach intentionally avoids problematic statistical practices like p-hacking. It is not realistic to expect a single study to accomplish everything from proposing a new concept to conducting large-scale clinical trials to establishing clinical thresholds. Establishing clinical thresholds typically requires the accumulation of multiple studies over many years. Recognizing this reality, we have been careful in our manuscript to make modest claims about the discovery of new “correlations” rather than exaggerated claims about immediate routine clinical use.

      To address this limitation, we conducted a large follow-up study of over 8,000 individuals in the next study (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Stratification of individuals without prior diagnosis of diabetes using continuous glucose monitoring” medRxiv (2025)), which proposed clinically relevant cutoffs and reference ranges for AC_Var and other CGM-derived indices. As this large study was beyond the scope of the present manuscript due to differences in primary objectives and analytical approaches, it was not included in this paper. However, we expect to make these measures more actionable in clinical use by integrating automated calculation tools with clear clinical thresholds.

      We have added the following text to the Discussion section to address these considerations (lines 415-419):

      While CGM-derived indices such as AC_Var and ADRR hold promise for CAD risk assessment, their complexity may present challenges for routine clinical implementation. To improve usability, we have developed a web-based calculator that automates these calculations. However, defining clinically relevant thresholds and reference ranges requires further validation in larger cohorts.

      (10) While the study acknowledges several limitations, authors should also consider explicitly addressing the potential impact of inter-individual variability in glucose metabolism (e.g., age-related changes, hormonal influences) on the findings.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the potential impact of interindividual variability in glucose metabolism, including age-related changes and hormonal influences, on our results. In our analysis, we found that age had minimal effects on glucose dynamics characteristics, as shown in Figure S8A. In addition, CGM-derived measures such as ADRR and AC_Var significantly contributed to the prediction of %NC independent of insulin secretion (I.I.) and insulin sensitivity (Composite index) (Fig. 2). These results suggest that our primary conclusions regarding glucose dynamics and coronary risk remain robust despite individual differences in glucose metabolism.

      To address the reviewer’s suggestion, we have added the following discussion (lines 186-188, 361-368):

      Conventional indices, including FBG, HbA1c, PG120, I.I., Composite index, and Oral DI, did not contribute significantly to the prediction compared to these CGM-derived indices.

      In our analysis of demographic factors, we found that age and gender had minimal influence on glucose dynamics characteristics (Fig. S8A, B), suggesting that our findings regarding the relationship between glucose dynamics and coronary risk are robust across different demographic groups within our dataset. Future studies involving larger and more diverse populations would be valuable to comprehensively elucidate the potential influence of age, gender, and other demographic factors on glucose dynamics characteristics and their relationship to cardiovascular risk.

      (11) It's unclear whether the identified components (value, variability, and autocorrelation) could serve as proxies for underlying physiological mechanisms, such as beta-cell dysfunction or insulin resistance. Please clarify.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the physiological underpinnings of the glucose components we identified. The mean, variance, and autocorrelation components we identified likely reflect specific underlying physiological mechanisms related to glucose regulation. In our previous research (Sugimoto, Hikaru, et al. “Improved detection of decreased glucose handling capacities via continuous glucose monitoring-derived indices.” Communications Medicine 5.1 (2025): 103.), we explored the relationship between glucose dynamics characteristics and glucose control capabilities using clamp tests and mathematical modelling. These investigations revealed that autocorrelation specifically shows a significant correlation with the disposition index (the product of insulin sensitivity and insulin secretion) and insulin clearance parameters.

      Furthermore, our current study demonstrates that CGM-derived measures such as ADRR and AC_Var significantly contributed to the prediction of %NC independent of established metabolic parameters including insulin secretion (I.I.) and insulin sensitivity (Composite index), as shown in Figure 2. These results suggest that the components we identified capture distinct physiological aspects of glucose metabolism beyond traditional measures of beta-cell function and insulin sensitivity. Further research is needed to fully characterize these relationships, but our results imply that these characteristics of glucose dynamics offer supplementary insight into the underlying beta-cell dysregulation that contributes to coronary plaque vulnerability.

      To address the reviewer’s suggestion, we have added the following discussion to the Result section (lines 186-188):

      Conventional indices, including FBG, HbA1c, PG120, I.I., Composite index, and Oral DI, did not contribute significantly to the prediction compared to these CGM-derived indices.

      Minor Comments:

      (1) The use of LASSO and PLS regression is appropriate, but the rationale for choosing these methods over others (e.g., Ridge regression) should be explained in greater detail.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment and have added the following discussion to the Methods section (lines 578-585):

      LASSO regression was chosen for its ability to perform feature selection by identifying the most relevant predictors. Unlike Ridge regression, which simply shrinks coefficients toward zero without reaching exactly zero, LASSO produces sparse models, which is consistent with our goal of identifying the most critical features of glucose dynamics associated with coronary plaque vulnerability. In addition, we implemented PLS regression as a complementary approach due to its effectiveness in dealing with multicollinearity, which was particularly relevant given the high correlation among several CGM-derived measures.

      (2) While figures are well-designed, adding annotations to highlight key findings (e.g., significant contributors in factor analysis) would improve clarity.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to improve the clarity of our figures. In the factor analysis, we decided not to include annotations because indicators such as ADRR and J-index can be associated with multiple factors, which could lead to misleading or confusing interpretations. However, in response to the suggestion, we have added annotations to the PLS analysis, specifically highlighting items with VIP values greater than 1 (Fig. 2D, S2D) to emphasize key contributors.

      (3) The term "value" as a component of glucose dynamics could be clarified. For instance, does it strictly refer to mean glucose levels, or does it encompass other measures?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s question regarding the term “value” in the context of glucose dynamics. Factor 1 was predominantly influenced by CGM_Mean, with a factor loading of 0.99, indicating that it primarily represents mean glucose levels. Given this strong correlation, we have renamed Factor 1 to “Mean” (Fig. 3A) to more accurately reflect its role in glucose dynamics.

      (4) The concept of autocorrelation may be unfamiliar to some readers. A brief, intuitive explanation with a concrete example of how it manifests in glucose dynamics would enhance understanding.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion. Autocorrelation refers to the relationship between a variable and its past values over time. In the context of glucose dynamics, it reflects how current glucose levels are influenced by past levels, capturing patterns such as sustained hyperglycemia or recurrent fluctuations. For example, if an individual experiences sustained high glucose levels after a meal, the strong correlation between successive glucose readings indicates high autocorrelation. We have included this explanation in the revised manuscript (lines 519-524) to improve clarity for readers unfamiliar with the concept. Additionally, Figure 4A shows an example of glucose dynamics with different autocorrelation.

      (5) Ensure consistent use of terms like "glucose dynamics," "CGM-derived indices," and "plaque vulnerability." For instance, sometimes indices are referred to as "components," which might confuse readers unfamiliar with the field.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment about ensuring consistency in terminology. To avoid confusion, we have reviewed and standardized the use of terms such as “CGM-derived indices,” and “plaque vulnerability” throughout the manuscript. Additionally, while many of our measures are strictly CGM-derived indices, several “components” in our analysis include fasting blood glucose (FBG) and glucose waveforms during the OGTT. For these measures, we retained the descriptors “glucose dynamics” and “components” rather than relabelling them as CGM-derived indices.

      (6) Provide a more detailed overview of the supplementary materials in the main text, highlighting their relevance to the key findings.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion. We revised the manuscript by integrating the supplementary text into the main text (lines 129-160), which provides a clearer overview of the supplementary materials. Consequently, the Supplementary Information section now only contains supplementary figures, while their relevance and key details are described in the main text. 

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Other Concerns:

      (1) The text states the significance of tests, however, no p-values are listed: Lines 118-119: Significance is cited between CGM indices and %NC, however, neither the text nor supplementary text have p-values. Need p-values for Figure 3C, Figure S10. When running the https://cgm-basedregression.streamlit.app/ multiple regression analysis, a p-value should be given as well. Do the VIP scores (Line 142) change with the inclusion of SBP, DBP, TG, LDL, and HDL? Do the other datasets have the same well-controlled serum cholesterol and BP levels?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding statistical significance and the documentation of p values.

      First, given the multiple comparisons in our study, we used q values rather than p values, as shown in Figure 1D. Q values provide a more rigorous statistical framework for controlling the false discovery rate in multiple testing scenarios, thereby reducing the likelihood of false positives.

      Second, our statistical reporting follows established guidelines, including those of the New England Journal of Medicine (Harrington, David, et al. “New guidelines for statistical reporting in the journal.” New England Journal of Medicine 381.3 (2019): 285-286.), which recommend that “reporting of exploratory end points should be limited to point estimates of effects with 95% confidence intervals” and that “replace p values with estimates of effects or association and 95% confidence intervals”. According to these guidelines, p values should not be reported in this type of study. We determined significance based on whether these 95% confidence intervals excluded zero - a statistical method for determining whether an association is significantly different from zero (Tan, Sze Huey, and Say Beng Tan. “The correct interpretation of confidence intervals.” Proceedings of Singapore Healthcare 19.3 (2010): 276-278.).

      For the sake of transparency, we provide p values for readers who may be interested, although we emphasize that they should not be the basis for interpretation, as discussed in the referenced guidelines. Specifically, in Figure 1A-B, the p values for CGM_Mean, CGM_Std, and AC_Var were 0.02, 0.02, and <0.01, respectively, while those for FBG, HbA1c, and PG120 were 0.83, 0.91, and 0.25, respectively. In Figure 3C, the p values for factors 1–5 were 0.03, 0.03, 0.03, 0.24, and 0.87, respectively, and in Figure S8C, the p values for factors 1–3 were <0.01, <0.01, and 0.20, respectively. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify our statistical methodology and are happy to provide additional details if needed.

      We confirmed that the results of the variable importance in projection (VIP) analysis remained stable after including additional covariates, such as systolic blood pressure (SBP), diastolic blood pressure (DBP), triglycerides (TG), low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C). The VIP values for ADRR, MAGE, AC_Var, and LI consistently exceeded one even after these adjustments, suggesting that the primary findings are robust in the presence of these clinical variables. We have added the following sentences in the Results and Methods section (lines 188-191, 491-494):

      Even when SBP, DBP, TG, LDL-C, and HDL-C were included as additional input variables, the results remained consistent, and the VIP scores for ADRR, AC_Var, MAGE, and LI remained greater than 1 (Fig. S2D).

      Of note, as the original reports document, the validation datasets did not specify explicit cutoffs for blood pressure or cholesterol. Consequently, they included participants with suboptimal control of these parameters.

      (2) Negative factor loadings have not been addressed and consistency in components: Figure 3, Figure S7. All the main features for value in Figure 3A are positive. However, MVALUE in S7B is very negative for value whereas the other features highlighted for value are positive. What is driving this difference? Please explain if the direction is important. Line 480 states that variables with factor loadings >= 0.30 were used for interpretation, but it appears in the text (Line 156, Figure 3) that oral DI was used for value, even though it had a -0.61 loading. Figure 3, Figure S7. HBGI falls within two separate components (value and variability). There is not a consistent component grouping. Removal of MAG (Line 185) and only MAG does not seem scientific. Did the removal of other features also result in similar or different Cronbach's ⍺? It is unclear what Figure S8B is plotting. What does each point mean?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment regarding the classification of CGMderived measures into the three components: value, variability, and autocorrelation. As the reviewer correctly points out, some measures may load differently between the value and variability components in different datasets. However, we believe that this variability reflects the inherent mathematical properties of these measures rather than a limitation of our study.

      For example, the HBGI clusters differently across datasets due to its dependence on the number of glucose readings above a threshold. In populations where mean glucose levels are predominantly below this threshold, the HBGI is more sensitive to glucose variability (Fig. S3A). Conversely, in populations with a wider range of mean glucose levels, HBGI correlates more strongly with mean glucose levels (Fig. 3A). This context-dependent behaviour is expected given the mathematical properties of these measures and does not indicate an inconsistency in our classification approach.

      Importantly, our main findings remain robust: CGM-derived measures systematically fall into three components-value, variability, and autocorrelation. Traditional CGM-derived measures primarily reflect either value or variability, and this categorization is consistently observed across datasets. While specific indices such as HBGI may shift classification depending on population characteristics, the overall structure of CGM data remains stable.

      With respect to negative factor loadings, we agree that they may appear confusing at first. However, in the context of exploratory factor analysis, the magnitude, or absolute value, of the loading is most critical for interpretation, rather than its sign. Following established practice, we considered variables with absolute loadings of at least 0.30 to be meaningful contributors to a given component. Accordingly, although the oral DI had a negative loading of –0.61, its absolute magnitude exceeded the threshold of 0.30, so it was considered in our interpretation of the “value” component. Regarding the reviewer’s observation that MVALUE in Figure S7B shows a strongly negative loading while other indices in the same component show positive loadings, we believe this reflects the relative orientation of the factor solution rather than a substantive difference in interpretation. In factor analysis, the direction of factor loadings is arbitrary: multiplying all the loadings for a given factor by –1 would not change the factor’s statistical identity. Therefore, the important factor is not whether a variable loads positively or negatively but rather the strength of its association with the latent component (i.e., the absolute value of the loading).

      The rationale for removing MAG was based on statistical and methodological considerations. As is common practice in reliability analyses, we examined whether Cronbach’s α would improve if we excluded items with low factor loadings or weak item–total correlations. In the present study, we recalculated Cronbach’s α after removing the MAG item because it had a low loading. Its exclusion did not substantially affect the theoretical interpretation of the factor, which we conceptualize as “secretion” (without CGM). MAG’s removal alone is scientifically justified because it was the only item whose exclusion improved Cronbach's α while preserving interpretability. In contrast, removing other items would have undermined the conceptual clarity of the factor or would not have meaningfully improved α. Furthermore, the MAG item has a high factor 2 loading.

      Each point in Figure S8B (old version) corresponds to an individual participant.

      To address these considerations, we have added the following text to the Discussion, Methods, (lines 388-396, 600-601) and Figure S6B (current version) legend:

      Some indices, such as HBGI, showed variation in classification across datasets, with some populations showing higher factor loadings in the “mean” component and others in the “variance” component. This variation occurs because HBGI calculations depend on the number of glucose readings above a threshold. In populations where mean glucose levels are predominantly below this threshold, the HBGI is more sensitive to glucose variability (Fig. S5A). Conversely, in populations with a wider range of mean glucose levels, the HBGI correlates more strongly with mean glucose levels (Fig. 3A). Despite these differences, our validation analyses confirm that CGM-derived indices consistently cluster into three components: mean, variance, and autocorrelation.

      Variables with absolute factor loadings of ≥ 0.30 were used in interpretation.

      Box plots comparing factors 1 (Mean), 2 (Variance), and 3 (Autocorrelation) between individuals without (-) and with (+) diabetic macrovascular complications. Each point corresponds to an individual. The boxes represent the interquartile range, with the median shown as a horizontal line. Mann–Whitney U tests were used to assess differences between groups, with P values < 0.05 considered statistically significant.

      Minor Concerns:

      (1) NGT is not defined.

      We appreciate the reviewer for pointing out that the term “NGT” was not clearly defined in the original manuscript. We have added the following text to the Methods section (lines 447-451):

      T2DM was defined as HbA1c ≥ 6.5%, fasting plasma glucose (FPG) ≥ 126 mg/dL or 2‑h plasma glucose during a 75‑g OGTT (PG120) ≥ 200 mg/dL. IGT was defined as HbA1c 6.0– 6.4%, FPG 110–125 mg/dL or PG120 140–199 mg/dL. NGT was defined as values below all prediabetes thresholds (HbA1c < 6.0%, FPG < 110 mg/dL and PG120 < 140 mg/dL).

      (2) Is it necessary to list the cumulative percentage (Line 173), it could be clearer to list the percentage explained by each factor instead.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to list the percentage explained by each factor rather than the cumulative percentage for improved clarity. According to the reviewer’s suggestion, we have revised the results to show the individual contribution of each factor (39%, 21%, 10%, 5%, 5%) rather than the cumulative percentages (39%, 60%, 70%, 75%, 80%) that were previously listed (lines 220-221).

      (3) Figure S10. How were the coefficients generated for Figure S10? No methods are given.

      We conducted a multiple linear regression analysis in which time in range (TIR) was the dependent variable and the factor scores corresponding to the first three latent components (factor 1 representing the mean, factor 2 representing the variance, and factor 3 representing the autocorrelation) were the independent variables. We have added the following text to the figure legend (Fig. S8C) to provide a more detailed description of how the coefficients were generated:

      Comparison of predicted Time in range (TIR) versus measured TIR using multiple regression analysis between TIR and factor scores in Figure 3. In this analysis, TIR was the dependent variable, and the factor scores corresponding to the first three latent components (factor 1 representing the mean, factor 2 representing the variance, and factor 3 representing the autocorrelation) were the independent variables. Each point corresponds to the values for a single individual.

      (4) In https://cgm-basedregression.streamlit.app/, more explanation should be given about the output of the multiple regression. Regression is spelled incorrectly on the app.

      We appreciate the reviewer for pointing out the need for a clearer explanation of the multiple regression analysis presented in the online tool

      (https://cgmregressionapp2.streamlit.app/). We have added the description about the regression and corrected the typographical error in the spelling of “regression” within the app. 

      (5) The last section of results (starting at line 225) appears to be unrelated to the goal of predicting %NC.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s feedback regarding the relevance of the simulation component of our manuscript. The primary contribution of our study goes beyond demonstrating correlations between CGM-derived measures and %NC; it highlights three fundamental components of glycemic patterns-mean, variance, and autocorrelation-and their independent relationships with coronary plaque characteristics. The simulations are included to illustrate how glycemic patterns with identical means and variability can have different autocorrelation structures. As reviewer 2 pointed out in minor comment #4, temporal autocorrelation can be difficult to interpret, so these visualizations were intended to provide intuitive examples for readers.

      However, we agree with the reviewer’s concern about the coherence of the manuscript. In response, we have streamlined the simulation section by removing technical simulations that do not directly support our primary conclusions (old version of the manuscript, lines 239-246, 502-526), while retaining only those that enhance understanding of the three glycemic components (Fig. 4A).

      (6) Figure S2. The R2 should be reported.

      We appreciate the reviewer for suggesting that we report R² in Figure S2. In the revised version, we have added the correlation coefficients and their 95% confidence intervals to Figure 1E.

      (7) Multiple panels have a correlation line drawn with a slope of 1 which does not reflect the data or r^2 listed. this should be fixed.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern that several panels included regression lines with a fixed slope of one that did not reflect the associated R² values. We have corrected Figures 1A–C and 3C to display regression lines representing the estimated slopes derived from the regression analyses.

    1. R0:

      Review Comments to the Author

      Please use the space provided to explain your answers to the questions above. You may also include additional comments for the author, including concerns about dual publication, research ethics, or publication ethics. (Please upload your review as an attachment if it exceeds 20,000 characters)

      Reviewer #1: 1. The manuscript primarily shows that adding a visual inspection step increased the proportion of prosthetic feet deemed usable (83% to 94%). This outcome is predictable and does not constitute meaningful scientific innovation. The work reads as an operational description rather than rigorous research; novelty and contribution are therefore limited. 2. The proposed checklist is not validated. There is no mechanical or structural testing, no clinical functional outcomes, no prospective field evaluation, no inter-rater reliability assessment, and no sensitivity or specificity analysis. Accordingly, the checklist cannot be considered a standard, and the conclusions overstate the evidence. A formal validation phase is required. 3. Safety, mechanical integrity, and lifespan have not been evaluated. Visual inspection alone is inadequate for medical devices. No ISO-aligned static or cyclic loading tests are presented, nor are durability or time-in-service data available. This is a critical omission given the manuscript’s intent to inform international practice. 4. No patient-level outcomes are included (for example, fit success, comfort, skin issues, mobility, abandonment, repair frequency, or time-to-failure). Without these data, the practical value of the intervention remains uncertain. 5. Brand-level comparisons are underpowered, and model-level or material-level analyses are not presented. Despite acknowledging this limitation, the manuscript still interprets brand-related effects. 6. The Introduction and narrative sections are disproportionately long and repetitive; substantial condensation is recommended. In contrast, the Methods and Results require greater depth and clarity. 7. The statistical analysis is limited. Logistic models do not account for key confounders such as service age, storage duration, materials, or model type. Model diagnostics, effect sizes with confidence intervals, and multiple-comparison considerations are not reported. 8. Economic evaluation is absent. Donation and reuse programs in low and middle income settings are cost sensitive, and without cost modeling, the recommendations have limited actionable value. 9. Several claims are overstated, including suggestions related to circular economy effects, international standard development, and safety assurance. These assertions are not supported by the presented data and should be moderated.

      Reviewer #2: It is suggested to review the Nippon Foundation/Exceed Cambodia in proposing the standards of P&O. The case study that has been done in Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam and Sri Lanka in will guide the current P&O Standard in low and middle income countries.

      It is best to review the minimum standards of P&O in these countries as a underlying theory to govern the foundation of foot reuse and donation used.

      A robust systematic reviews are vital in proposing standards for foot reuse and donations used in low and middle income countries. An updated literature are needed.

      It is suggested to explore the preliminary findings in these low and middle income countries.

      Reviewer #3: GENERAL This reviewer welcomes the ambition of the authors to start developing standards for donated prosthetic componentry to LMICs. Such standards are indeed much needed as one important factor to improve the quality of the prosthetic devices provided within LMICs.

      The authors’ work has carefully been imbedded into a wealth of information and reasons for why the need is urgent for developing standards of donated prosthetic components. This information has been mindfully drafted including viewpoints and situation of many LMICs as well as HICs. Well done!

      What left this reviewer wondering is why the development of the checklist has not been carried out with locals at the two centers, where MB and PM were able to collect the data of the stored feet. The rationale for not doing so should be included into the Limitations section.

      Further, why has no testing of the developed checklist been carried out with the two centers? For example, dividing the available feet into two equal sized groups would have raised the opportunity to develop the checklist with one group of feet including the regression model and then test it on the remaining feet in the second group. Why was this not considered? One could classify all available feet as indicated in Table 1, but then consider only these feet who were mostly used in the field or were mostly available. Lowering the numbers of independent variables to the those variables that would represent the essence of the checklist best would have given the option for a regression model, or is this reviewer mistaken? These points should be discussed in the paper. In case the paper gets too long (word count), it is recommended to concise the actual discussion section as it provides similar points stated in the introduction.

      And lastly, this reviewer does not think that retesting used feet similar to the stated ISO standards would be feasible. Instead, it might be worthwhile checking in other industries (aviation, deep-sea shipping) what type of non-mechanical controls for checking of wear and tear on materials/motors are available without dismantling motors or testing of used structures. Perhaps some light and/or sonar evaluation would be a way to check the mechanical structure of used prosthetic feet and other componentry without putting any more strain on the used materials. That might be some thoughts for the Future Work section. Also probable collaboration with universities in LMICs should be considered as a close source of additional brain power for the development of standards within a given country.

      DETAILED The reviewer finds the word ‘prosthetics’ difficult and prefers the (correct) term ‘prosthetic componentry or prosthetic components’ instead. In her experience using the nomenclature of the P/O profession adds clarity in an interdisciplinary context. It is often unclear to people outside of or adjacent to the P/O profession that a ‘prosthetics’ is composed of different products, i.e. some industrial produced prosthetic components and – in most cases – a bespoken locally fabricated prosthetic socket. By using prosthetic components or prosthesis/prostheses when referring to the final product – the authors will signal directly that there are ‘pieces’ needed to compose an entire prosthesis. Further, using the correct term assists in distinguishing prostheses fabricated with componentry from those being fabricated by 3D printing, also a field needing standards for C2C design. Therefore, please change the wording accordingly within the entire paper – thank you!

      Lines 165-168. This sentence seems to be incomplete – please check.

      Line 229. This statement is incorrect. In Switzerland (and the reviewer is sure this is the case in France, Netherlands and the UK), prosthetic componentry has different life/warranty cycles depending on the type of prosthetic component and its model. Please rephrase this sentence pointing out that different prosthetic components and their models have different life/warranty cycles set by the industrial manufacturers.

      Lines 284-286.This sentence is unclear: Are the authors checking prosthetic feet shipped to Africa prior to the study or as part of the study when these feet arrive in Africa? If they are analyzed prior to the study how do the authors make sure that the damage seen is indeed due to shipping and not due to storage, for example? If the authors controlled feet within the study time period, would the sentence not needed to be stated “… we review prosthetic feet ALSO in Africa.”? Or did the authors not review the feet at the study place, but only in Africa? Please clarify and rephrase – thank you. These clarifications/details seem to be better placed within the Materials and Methods Chapter.

      Lines 287-311, in particular lines 311-317. Because the authors use an experimental setup, variables are usually considered as ‘independent’ or ‘dependent’. Please clarify what variables (independent, dependent) were considered. All variables the authors used to classify the different feet need be listed together with the rationale for the decision to include them into the regression model, including their order.

      Ok – are the variables listed on line 314 the once considered as independent variables to classify a prosthetic foot as ‘reusable’ or ‘not reusable’? If so, why? In other words, why do the authors consider the ‘brand’ to be more important than the condition of the foot itself? Or is it the case because only those feet that passed the visual test of being 'usable' were included into the regression model? Up to this point, this reviewer understood the aim of the study as being to develop a set of criteria to classify a prosthetic foot as reusable or not. If a visual pre-selection needs to be carried out first, how good/robust is the regression model that follows? Please clarify and add this clarification to the text – thank you.

      Lines 296-298. What variables (the authors call them ‘flaws’, if understood correctly) did the authors consider during the usability tests? How were these tests carried out? What happened with the feet the authors did consider as ‘not usable’: where they removed from the total sample of 366 feet (see below remarks to line 319)? For illustration: assuming the authors used for their visual check a variable called ‘cracks within the cosmetic’: did the authors classify a foot as still usable when only surface cracks were available, or did they exclude any foot with a crack in its shell? What were the criteria to classify a SACH foot as ‘usable’? More detailed information about the entire method for the visual checks and the resulting classification needs to be stated.

      When did the authors add any of this variable into the regression model and they give some of the variables a weighting, i.e. were some of the variables considered more important than others, and if so, why? Please add this information and make a reference to Table 2 or better, create a new Table or flowchart showing the authors thoughts and decision process including the variables used upon which they based their decision to classify a foot as ‘usable’ or ‘not usable’. Clarification on this matter will strengthen the work as it helps the reader to better understand the authors’ rationale – thank you!

      Line 319. Please start the results section with “A total of 366 feet where analyzed, 196 left and 170 right feet…”

      Line 320. Please add “… and A brand could be identified for… ” – thank you.

      Lines 320-322. Based on the information given in Table 1, there were 12 brands identified as categories plus one category with feet unknown to the authors. Because ‘unknown’ is not a brand, the sentence needs to be rephrased – thank you.

      Lines 353-357. These sentences seem to be missing some text, at least, they do not make sense to this reviewer. In lines 353-355 the authors state that the feet of Trulife and Ossur performed worst. Then in the following lines the authors state that they are (nevertheless??) considered as appropriate for donation. Please clarify – thank you.

      Table 4. Please explain/add, either in the corresponding text (lines 350 and subsequently) how the negative signs have to be read. Why has the measurement made against ‘BioQuest’ and not ‘Janton’ and how do the authors explain the difference in the coefficient between these two feet? Both feet were represented with n=1, why is there a difference? Please explain and add the clarification into the text within the Discussion section – thank you.

      Figure 2. Please add to Fig. 2, a, b, and c, as done in Fig. 1. This assists in clarifying matters. Please add this clarification into the text: line 364 = Figure 2a; line 378: delete (Figure 2) and add after ‘NCRPPD’ (Figure 2b); line 379: add (Figure 2c) after ‘K4C’.

      Line 388. Add at the end of the sentence ‘(Figure 3)’.

      Line 395. Please expand this sentence like or similar as proposed “…can be a burden to the recipient LMIC [31, 39,40], as indicated by Marks et al (2019 – Please check PLOS rules!!):” and then have the quotation followed. This will connect the quotation with the text and makes it easier to read.

      Line 469. Please check this sentence – the word ‘design’ seems to be twice stated. If this is correct, consider rephrasing as the sentence reads strange, thank you.

      Checklist questions: • Question (1): Please add example of ‘completeness’ of a prosthetic foot, as you did for Question 2. • Question (3): Add examples of what the authors consider ‘compliant’: forefoot, heel, middle section? All of these, only one? Usable for light persons, like children if only one part of the foot is too compliant? If so, which one do the authors consider as the most important variable for a foot to be still considered ‘usable’?

      Line 529. Word missing: “..cost of what” was the biggest barrier? Please complete.

      Line 533. Please consider replacing ‘in this way’ with ‘Therefore’ or similar that would connect clearer the content of the previous paragraph with this new one.

      Line 544. Typos: ‘reduce’ instead of ‘reduces’, ‘limit’ instead of ‘limits’.

      Line 567. Stop the sentence after ‘repair of equipment’ and continue with a new sentence starting, for example with “Hamner et al (please check PLOS rules!!) point out that … and than add the quotation.

      Line 570. Please delete ‘etc.’ This should not be used in a text as it lefts the reader wonder what else – in this case – could have had an influence. Instead write ‘for example’ and list the three most missing points that were not considered.

      Line 620. Keep the number correct: the authors tested 306 feet. The number speaks for itself, no need to bolster it. To this reviewer bolstering looks bad, stay with the figures.

      Line 622. Replace ‘are’ with ‘were’, as this was the case for the authors' sample. Samples of other authors might vary.

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Areas of improvement and suggestions:

      (1) "These results suggest the SP targets interneurons in the brain that feed into higher processing centers from different entry points likely representing different sensory input" and "All together, these data suggest that the abdominal ganglion harbors several distinct type of neurons involved in directing PMRs"

      The characterization of the post-mating circuitry has been largely described by the group of Barry Dickson and other labs. I suggest ruling out a potential effect of mSP in any of the well-known post-mating neuronal circuitry, i.e: SPSN, SAG, pC1, vpoDN or OviDNs neurons. A combination of available split-Gal4 should be sufficient to prove this.

      We agree that this information is important to distinguish neurons which are direct SP targets from neurons which are involved in directing reproductive behaviors. We have now tested drivers for these neurons and added these data in Fig 3 (SAG neurons) and as Suppl Figs S4 (SPSN and genital tract neuron drivers SPR3 and SPR21), Suppl Fig S6 (overlap in single cell expression atlas), Suppl Fig S7 (overlap of SPSN split drivers with SPR8, fru11/12 and dsx split drivers in the brain inducing PMRs) and Suppl Fig S9 (pC1, OviDNs, OviENs, OviINs and vpoDN).  

      The newly added data are in full support of our conclusion that SP targets central nervous system neurons, which we termed SP Response Inducing Neurons (SPRINz). In particular, we find lines that express in genital tract neurons, but do not induce an SP response (Supp Figs S4, S7 and S10) or do not express in genital tract neurons and induce an SP response (Fig 2 and Supp Fig S2).

      We have analysed the expression of SPSN in the brain and VNC and find expression in few neurons (Suppl Fig S4). This result is consistent with expression of the genes driving SPSN expression in the single cell expression atlas indicating overlap of expression in very few neurons (Suppl Fig S6). We have already shown that FD6 (VT003280) which is part of the SPSN splitGal4 driver, expresses in the brain and VNC and can induce PMRs from SP expression (Fig 4).

      We have taken this further to test another SPSN driver (VT058873) in combination with SPR8, fru11/12 and dsx and find PMRs induced by mSP expression (Suppl Fig S7). Moreover, if we restrict expression of mSP to the brain with otdflp we can induce PMRs from mSP expression and obtain the same response by activating these brain neurons (Suppl Fig S7). We note that the VT058873 ∩ fru11/12 intersection in combination with otdflp stopmSP or stopTrpA1 in the head, did not result in PMRs. Here, PMR inducing neurons likely reside in the VNC, but currently no tools are available to test this further.

      We further tested pC1, OviDNs, OviENs, OviINs and vpoDN for induction of PMRs from expression of mSP. We are pleased to see that OviEN-SS2s, OviIN-SS1 and vpoDN splitGAl4 drivers can reduce receptivity, but not induce oviposition (Suppl Fig S8). We predicted such drivers based on previously published data (Haussmann et al. 2013), which we now validated.

      (2) Authors must show how specific is their "head" (elav/otd-flp) and "trunk" (elav/tsh) expression of mSP by showing images of the same constructs driving GFP.

      The expression pattern for tshGAL, which expresses in the trunk is already published (Soller et al., 2006). We have added images for “head” expression for tshGAL and adjusted our statement to be pre-dominantly expressed in the VNC in Suppl Fig 1.

      (3) VT3280 is termed as a SAG driver. However, VT3280 is a SPSN specific driver (Feng et al., 2014; Jang et al., 2017; Scheunemann et al., 2019; Laturney et al., 2023). The authors should clarify this.

      According to the reviewers suggestion, we have clarified the specificity of VT003280 and now say that this is FD6.

      (4) Intersectional approaches must rule out the influence of SP on sex-peptide sensing neurons (SPSN) in the ovary by combining their constructs with SPSN-Gal80 construct. In line with this, most of their lines targets the SAG circuit (4I, J and K). Again, here they need to rule out the involvement of SPSN in their receptivity/egg laying phenotypes. Especially because "In the female genital tract, these split-Gal4 combinations show expression in genital tract neurons with innervations running along oviduct and uterine walls (Figures S3A-S3E)".

      We agree with this reviewer that we need a higher resolution of expression to only one cell type. However, this is a major task that we will continue in follow up studies.

      In principal, use of GAL80 is a valid approach to restrict expression, if levels of GAL80 are higher than those of GAL4, because GAL80 binds GAL4 to inhibit its activity. Hence, if levels of GAL80 are lower, results could be difficult to interpret.

      (5) The authors separate head (brain) from trunk (VNC) responses, but they don't narrow down the neural circuits involved on each response. A detailed characterization of the involved circuits especially in the case of the VNC is needed to (a) show that the intersectional approach is indeed labelling distinct subtypes and (b) how these distinct neurons influence oviposition.

      Again, we agree with this reviewer that we need a higher resolution of expression to only one cell type. However, this is a major task that we will continue in follow up studies.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Strength:

      The intersectional approach is appropriate and state-of-the art. The analysis is a very comprehensive tour-de-force and experiments are carefully performed to a high standard. The authors also produced a useful new transgenic line (UAS-FRTstopFRT mSP). The finding that neurons in the brain (head) mediate the SP effect on receptivity, while neurons in the abdomen and thorax (ventral nerve cord or peripheral neurons) mediate the SP effect on oviposition, is a significant step forward in the endavour to identify the underlying neuronal networks and hence a mechanistic understanding of SP action. Though this result is not entirely unexpected, it is novel as it was not shown before.

      We thank reviewer 2 for recognizing the advance of our work.

      Weakness:

      Though the analysis identifies a small set of neurons underlying SP responses, it does not go the last step to individually identify at least a few of them. The last paragraph in the discussion rightfully speculates about the neurochemical identity of some of the intersection neurons (e.g. dopaminergic P1 neurons, NPF neurons). At least these suggested identities could have been confirmed by straight-forward immunostainings agains NPF or TH, for which antisera are available. Moreover, specific GAL4 lines for NPF or P1 or at least TH neurons are available which could be used to express mSP to test whether SP activation of those neurons is sufficient to trigger the SP effect.

      We appreciate this reviewers recognition of our previous work showing that receptivity and oviposition are separable. As pointed out we have now gone one step further and identified in a tour de force approach subsets of neurons in the brain and VNC.

      We agree with this reviewer that we need a higher resolution of expression to only one cell type. As pointed out by this reviewer, the neurochemical identity is an excellent suggestions and will help to further restrict expression to just one type of neuron. However, this is a major task that we will continue in follow up studies.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Strengths:

      Besides the main results described in the summary above, the authors discovered the following:

      (1) Reduction of receptivity and induction of egg-laying are separable by restricting the expression of membrane-tethered SP (mSP): head-specific expression of mSP induces reduction of receptivity only, whereas trunk-specific expression of mSP induces oviposition only. Also, they identified a GAL4 line (SPR12) that induced egg laying but did not reduce receptivity.

      (2) Expression of mSP in the genital tract sensory neurons does not induce PMR. The authors identified three GAL4 drivers (SPR3, SPR 21, and fru9), which robustly expressed mSP in genital tract sensory neurons but did not induce PMRs. Also, SPR12 does not express in genital tract neurons but induces egg laying by expressing mSP.

      We thank reviewer 2 for recognizing these two important points regarding the SP response that point to a revised model for how the underlying circuitry induces the post-mating response. To further substantiate these findings we now have added a splitGal4 nSyb ∩ ppk which expresses in genital tract neurons, but does not induce PMRs from mSP expression.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Intersectional expression involving ppk-GAL4-DBD was negative in all GAL4AD lines (Supp. Fig.S5). As the authors mentioned,   neurons may not intersect with SPR, fru, dsx, and FD6 neurons in inducing PMRs by mSP. However, since there was no PMR induction and no GAL4 expression at all in any combination with GAL4-AD lines used in this study, I would like to have a positive control, where intersectional expression of mSP in ppk-GAL4-DBD and other GAL4-AD lines (e.g., ppk-GAL4-AD) would induce PMR.

      We have added a positive control for ppk expression by combining the ppk-DBD line with a nSyb-AD which expresses in all neurons in Supp Fig S8. This experiment confirms our previous observations that ppk splitGal4 in combination with other drivers does not induce an SP response despite driving expression in genital tract neurons. We have expanded the discussion section to point out that we have identified additional cells in the brain expressing ppkGAL4, but expression of split-GAL4 ppk is absent in these cells. Part of this work has previously been published (Nallasivan et al. 2021). Accordingly, we amended the text to say when expression was achieved with ppkGAL or ppk splitGAL4.

      (2) The results of SPR RNAi knock-down experiments are inconclusive (Figure 5). SPR RNAi cancelled the PMR in dsx ∩ fru11/12 and partially in SPR8 ∩ fru 11/12 neurons. SPR RNAi in dsx ∩ SPR8 neurons turned virgin females unreceptive; it is unclear whether SPR mediates the phenotype in SPR8 ∩ fru 11/12 and dsx ∩ SPR8 neurons.

      We agree with this reviewer that the interpretation of the SPR RNAi results are complicated by the fact that SP has additional receptors (Haussmann et al 2013). The results are conclusive for all three intersections when expressing UAS mSP in SPR RNAi with respect to oviposition, e.g. egg laying is not induced in the absence of SPR. For receptivity, the results are conclusive for dsx ∩ fru11/12 and partially for SPR8 ∩ fru 11/12.

      Potentially, SPR RNAi knock-down does not sufficiently reduce SPR levels to completely reduce receptivity in some intersection patterns, likely also because splitGal4 expression is less efficient.

      Why SPR RNAi in dsx ∩ SPR8 neurons turned virgin females unreceptive is unclear, but we anticipate that we need a higher resolution of expression to only one cell type to resolve this unexpected result. However, this is a major task that we will continue in follow up studies.

      SPR RNAi knock-down experiments may also help clarify whether mSP worked autocrine or juxtacrine to induce PMR. mSP may produce juxtacrine signaling, which is cell non-autonomous.

      Whether membrane-tethered SP induces the response in a autocrine manner is an import aspect in the interpretation of the results from mSP expression.

      Removing SPR by SPR RNAi and expression of mSP in the same neurons did not induce egg laying for all three intersection and did not reduce receptivity for dsx ∩ fru11/12 and for SPR8 ∩ fru 11/12. Accordingly, we can conclude that for these neurons the response is induced in an autocrine manner.

      We have added this aspect to the discussion section.

    1. Acknowlegement This study was funded by Public Safety Canada. Start of text box Overview of the study Using multiple surveys, this article examines cyberbullying and cybervictimization among Canadian youth and young adults aged 12 to 29. With rates of online and social media use being high among young people, there is an increased risk of online forms of bullying and victimization. This paper examines the prevalence of cyberbullying and cybervictimization among young people, with a focus on identifying the at-risk populations, behaviours related to prevalence, such as internet and smart phone usage, and the association of online victimization with other forms of victimization, such as fraud and assault. Some young people are more vulnerable to cybervictimization, including Indigenous youth, sexually diverse and non-binary youth, youth with a disability, and girls and women.  Cybervictimization increases during adolescence and remains high among young adults in their early 20s. It then tapers off in the late 20s. Increased internet usage, as well as using smart phones before bed and upon waking, are associated with an increased risk of being cyberbullied. For youth aged 12 to 17, not using devices at mealtime, having parents who often know what their teens are doing online, and having less difficulty making friends act as potential buffers against cybervictimization. Cybervictimized young adults often change their behaviour, both online—from blocking people and restricting their own access—and offline—such as carrying something for protection. Cybervictimized young adults were also more likely to have experienced other forms of victimization such as being stalked and being physically or sexually assaulted. End of text box Introduction Internet use is now woven into the fabric of Canadian society. It has become a large part of everyday life, whether it is in the context of online learning, remote working, accessing information, e-commerce, obtaining services (including healthcare), streaming entertainment, or socializing. And while nearly all Canadians use the internet to some degree, Canadians under 30 represent the first generation born into a society where internet use was already ubiquitous. As such, it may not be surprising that Canadians under the age of 30 are more likely to be advanced users of the internet, compared to older generations.Note   In addition, they often spend many hours on the internet, with this usage increasing during the COVID-19 pandemic, more so than any other age group.Note  Besides proficiency and intensity, the way in which young people interact with the internet is often different from older generations. Previous Statistics Canada research has shown that younger people are more likely than their older counterparts to use social media, more likely to use multiple social media apps, and engage in more activities on these apps.Note  This use has been related to some negative outcomes for younger people, including lost sleep and trouble concentrating.Note  Social media and online activities may also place youth and young people at increased risk of cybervictimization or cyberbullying. Numerous studies have investigated both the prevalence and impact of cybervictimization, noting that youth are often at increased risk.Note   While comparisons across studies are often difficult because of definitional differences, ages of the youth being studied, and the time frames, there is consensus on the criteria for measuring cybervictimization. These include (1) intentions to harm the victim, (2) power imbalance between the bully and victim, (3) the repeated nature of aggression, (4) use of electronic devices (including phones or computers), and (5) possible anonymity.Note  This article examines cyberbullying among youth and young adults aged 12 to 29 in Canada using four population-based surveys. The Canadian Health Survey of Children and Youth (CHSCY) collects information on cyberbullying among youth aged 12 to 17, while three surveys capture this information for adults aged 18 to 29. These surveys include the Canadian Internet Use Survey (CIUS), the General Social Survey (GSS-Cycle 34) on Victimization and the Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces (SSPPS). Each will be used to help paint a picture of cyberbullying of younger people in Canada.Note  Definitions and measures of cyberbullying within each of the surveys are detailed in “Cyberbullying content across four Statistics Canada surveys” text box. The study starts by discussing the prevalence of, and risk factors associated with, cyberbullying among teens aged 12 to 17. This is followed by an analysis of cyberbullying among young adults aged 18 to 29. Along with providing a profile of cyberbullying, another goal is to highlight data and knowledge gaps in this area and potential areas where future surveys and research should focus. One-quarter of teens experience cyberbullying In 2019, one in four teens (25%) aged 12 to 17 reported experiencing cyberbullying in the previous year (Chart 1). Being threatened or insulted online or by text messages was the most common form, at 16%. This was followed by being excluded from an online community (13%) and having hurtful information posted on the internet (9%).   Among those aged 12 to 17, rates of cyberbullying increased with age, rising from 20% at age 12 to 27% by age 17. This perhaps reflects an increased use of the internet, and specifically social media usage with age. The largest increase in cyberbullying prevalence related to being threatened or insulted online or by text messages (from 11% at age 12 to 19% at age 17). Data table for Chart 1  Data table for chart 1 Table summary This table displays the results of Data table for chart 1 percentage (appearing as column headers). percentage Total youth aged 12 to 17 25 Hurtful information was posted on the internet 9 Excluded from an online community 13 Threatened/insulted online or by text messages 16 Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Health Survey on Children and Youth, 2019. Besides age, the likelihood of being victimized online varied by gender, sexual attraction, Indigenous identity and educational accommodations.  Generally, boys and girls have quite similar prevalence of cybervictimization. For instance, about 1 in 4 (24% for boys and 25% for girls) reported that they experienced any of the three forms of cybervictimization. Non-binary teens, however, experienced cybervictimization at significantly higher levels than both boys and girls. Over half (52%) of teens who reported a gender other than male or female said that they were cybervictimized in the past year. The higher prevalence among non-binary teens was seen across all types of cybervictimization. The greatest difference, however, was seen for being excluded from an online community. The proportion of non-binary teens who reported this type of cybervictimization was about three and a half times the proportion recorded for boys and girls (45% versus 12% for boys and 13% for girls). In addition, youth aged 15 to 17Note  who identified as having the same gender attraction had a significantly higher likelihood of being cyberbullied (33%), compared to their peers who were exclusively attracted to a different gender (26%). This increased risk was seen for all types of cyberbullying but was most pronounced for hurtful information being posted on the internet and being excluded from an online community. First Nations youth (off-reserve) are at greater risk of cyberbullying First NationsNote  youth living off-reserve were more likely than their non-Indigenous peers to have been cyberbullied in the past year. In particular, 34% of First Nations youth reported being bullied online, compared to 24% of non-Indigenous youth. The risk was heightened for certain types of cyberbullying, including having hurtful information posted on the internet and being threatened/insulted online or by text messages. These higher levels of cybervictimization mirror the overall higher rates of victimization for Indigenous people, which could be rooted in the long-standing legacy of colonialism resulting in discrimination and systemic racismNote  (Table 1). No significant differences were observed for Inuit and Métis youth.Note   Most racialized groups had either similar or lower prevalence rates of cyberbullying compared to non-racialized and non-Indigenous youth. For example, 16% of the South Asian youth and 18% of Filipino youth said that they had experienced cyberbullying in the past year, much lower than the 27% of non-racialized, non-Indigenous youth who reported being victimized online. In addition, those born in Canada had a higher likelihood of cyberbullying, compared to the immigrant youth population (26% versus 19%). This was seen for all forms of online victimization. The differences in risk may be due to variations in frequency of going online. Indeed, previous research has shown that immigrants are less likely to be advanced users of the internet, and are more often non-users, basic users or intermediate users.Note     Table 1 Prevalence of cyberbullying among youth aged 12 to 17, by population group, 2019 Table summary This table displays the results of Prevalence of cyberbullying among youth aged 12 to 17. The information is grouped by Population Subgroups, ages 12 to 17 (appearing as row headers), Types of cyberbullying, Hurtful information was posted on the internet, Threatened/insulted online or by text messages, Excluded from an online community and Any of the 3 types of cyberbullying, calculated using percent units of measure (appearing as column headers). Population group Types of cyberbullying Hurtful information was posted on the internet Threatened/insulted online or by text messages Excluded from an online community Any of the 3 types of cyberbullying percentage Gender Boys (ref.) 7 16 12 24 Girls 10 16 13 25 Non-binary 30Note E: Use with cautionNote * 34Note E: Use with cautionNote * 45Note E: Use with cautionNote * 52Note E: Use with cautionNote * Indigenous identity First Nations 14Note E: Use with caution 23Note * 16Note E: Use with caution 34Note * Métis 12Note E: Use with caution 20 13Note E: Use with caution 30 Inuit 14Note E: Use with caution 30Note E: Use with caution Note F: too unreliable to be published 36Note E: Use with caution Non-Indigenous (ref.) 8 16 13 24 Racialized group Black 8 16 12 24 Chinese 7 11Note * 12 22 Filipino 10 10Note * 7Note * 18Note * South Asian 5Note * 9Note * 9Note * 16Note * Not part of a racialized group (ref.) 9 18 14 27 Country of Birth Canada (ref.) 9 17 14 26 Outside Canada 5Note * 11Note * 10Note * 19Note * Gender attractionTable 1 Note 1 Same gender (ref.) 15 22 17 33 Opposite gender 9Note * 18 13Note * 26Note * Youth has an education accomodation Yes 11Note * 19Note * 15 27Note * No (ref.) 7 14 12 23 Don't know 12Note * 19Note * 15 29Note * E use with caution F too unreliable to be published Note 1 Only asked of youth aged 15 to 17. Return to note 1 referrer Note * significantly different from the reference category (ref.) (p<0.05) Return to note * referrer Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Health Survey of Children and Youth, 2019. Higher likelihood of cyberbullying among youth with education accommodation Based on results from CHSCY, having an education accommodation, such as an Individual Education Plan (IEP), Special Education Plan (SEP) or Inclusion and Intervention Plan (IIP), places youth at increased risk of cyberbullying. Overall, 27% of youth with some type of education accommodation for learning exceptionalities or special education needs were bullied online, compared to 23% of their peers without accommodation. The risk was greatest when the cyberbullying incidents involved hurtful information being posted on the internet or being threatened or insulted online or by text messages. The increased risk of cyberbullying among those with an education accommodation peaks at age 16, with 36% of 16 year-olds with an educational accommodation reporting being cyberbullied compared with 24% of youth without an accommodation.Note  Frequent use of social media tied to higher prevalence of cyberbullying among youth Because of the potential negative impacts of cyberbullying, including the effects on mental wellbeing, it is important to understand the factors that can expose youth to online harm. One of these possible factors relates to the frequency of online activity. The CHSCY asked youth how often they go online for social networking, video/instant messaging, and online gaming. The majority (about 80%) said that went online at least weekly, with 60% saying they went on social network platforms several times a day, and just over 50% reporting that they used video or instant messenger apps at this same level of frequency. About 1 in 3 (32%) teens said that they went online for gaming at least once a day or more. In general, results from CHSCY show that more frequent social networking, instant messaging use and online gaming had a strong association with an increased risk of cybervictimization. For instance, among youth who stated that they constantly use social networking, video and instant messaging or online gaming, about one-third (34%, 36% or 30% respectively) said that they had been cyberbullied in the past year. Conversely, the proportion reporting cybervictimization drops to around 20% when social networking and video and instant messaging was used less than once a week (22%, 22%, and 24% respectively). The risk decreases even further to less than 15% when youth never utilized social networking or video and instant messaging apps (Table 2).  Table 2 Prevalence of cyberbullying among youth aged 12 to 17, by frequency of social media use and gender, 2019 Table summary This table displays the results of Prevalence of cyberbullying among youth aged 12 to 17. The information is grouped by Frequency of social media use (appearing as row headers), Proportion cyberbullied in past year, by gender, Total, Boys, Girls, Social networking , Video or instant messaging and Online Gaming , calculated using percent units of measure (appearing as column headers). Frequency of social media use Proportion cyberbullied in past year Total Boys Girls Social networking Video or instant messaging Online Gaming Social networking Video or instant messaging Online Gaming Social networking Video or instant messaging Online Gaming percentage Constantly 34Note * 36Note * 30 33Note * 32Note * 30 34Note * 38Note * 28 Several times a day 27Note * 27Note * 30 26 27 30 27Note * 27Note * 29 Once a day (ref.) 21 23 27 22 25 26 20 20 29 Weekly 27 24 24 30 27 23 21 21 27 Less than weekly 22 20 24 22 21 19Note * 21 17 29Table 2 Note † Never 12Note * 14Note * 22Note * 14Note * 15Note * 15Note * 9Note * 13Note * 24Table 2 Note † Note † significant gender difference (p < 0.05) Return to note † referrer Note * significantly different from reference category (ref.) (p < 0.05) Return to note * referrer Note: Due to sample size limitations, the non-binary category is not releasable. Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Health Survey of Children and Youth, 2019. No gender differences were found between social media, video or instant messaging use and cybervictimization.Note   For instance, for both boys and girls, the proportion who said they were cybervictimized in the past year was over 30% if they constantly checked their social networking and instant messaging applications, with the risk decreasing similarly with lower levels of use. The risk of cybervictimization increases with age, from 12 to 17, mirroring the increased frequency in the use of social networking, video and instant messaging as youth age. Going online more frequently had the same impact on the cybervictimization risk for Indigenous and non-Indigenous youth. That is, going on social media more frequently increased the risk to the same extent for both Indigenous youth and non-Indigenous youth. However, this was not the case for all youth. For instance, the risk associated with more frequent social media and gaming use was greater for non-racialized youth than it was for racialized youth. Cyberbullying is sometimes related to usage patterns of electronic devices In addition to frequency of use, usage pattern of electronic devices may also be related to risk. Among youth aged 12 to 17, three-quarters (75%) used an electronic device before falling asleep in the past week. This usage pattern rises from a low of 54% at age 12 to a high of 92% by age 17. Using electronic devices before going to sleep appears to increase the risk of being cyberbullied. About 27% of youth that used their electronic device before going to sleep were cyberbullied in the past year, compared to 19% who had not used their device before going to sleep. The increased risk was most often related to being threatened or insulted online or by text messages (18% versus 11% who had not used a device before going to sleep) (Chart 2). Data table for Chart 2  Data table for chart 2 Table summary This table displays the results of Data table for chart 2 Yes, a device was used and No, a device was not used (ref.), calculated using percentage units of measure (appearing as column headers). Yes, a device was used No, a device was not used (ref.) percentage Total youth aged 12 to 17 27Note * 19 Hurtful information was posted on the internet 10Note * 5 Threatened/insulted online or by text messages 18Note * 11 Excluded from an online community 14Note * 10 Note * significantly different from the reference category (ref.) (p<0.05) Return to note * referrer Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Health Survey of Children and Youth, 2019. Use of electronic devices before going to sleep and risk of cybervictimization is fairly constant across age, but appears to be highest at age 15, where 31% had been cybervictimized in the past year. This proportion falls to 16% if they did not use their device before bedtime. Results suggest that parents may, in some cases, serve as protective agents, by not allowing electronic devices at the dinner table and having a greater knowledge of what their teens are doing online. For most youth (71%), parents did not allow electronic devices during the evening meal. However, 21% of youth said that their parents allowed electronic devices at the evening meal and another 7% said that their family does not eat together. The association with cybervictimization, especially being threatened or insulted online or by text messages, increases if electronic devices were allowed at dinner (18% versus 15%). However, there are no differences with respect to other types of cybervictimization. The real risk of cybervictimization is not whether a device was used, but whether the family ate together, which can be influenced by financial or other circumstances, such as work schedules or extracurricular activities.  Across all types of cybervictimization, 35% of youth who had not eaten dinner with parents reported that they had been cybervictimized in the past year, significantly greater than the 26% of youth who said that electronic devices were allowed at the evening meal, and the 23% who said that electronic devices were not allowed. This risk is strongest for ages 12 and 16. Parents’ knowledge of youth’s online activities may help lower the association with cybervictimization. Most Canadian youth who go online have some types of rules or guidelines established by their parents, which is usually more stringent for younger children and is typically relaxed as they age and gain more trust.Note  In 2019, the proportion who stated that their parents often or always know what they are doing online was quite high. In all, 63% stated this level of parental knowledge, while another 37% said that their parents never or only sometimes knew what they were doing online. Parental knowledge about online activity declines with age. At age 12, 77% of youth state that their parents often or always know what they are doing online, which drops to 51% by age 16 and to 49% by age 17. As may be expected, increased parental knowledge of teen’s online activity was associated with a lower risk of cybervictimization (Chart 3). In particular, close to a third of youth (29%) who said their parents never or only sometimes knew about their online activities reported that they had been cybervictimized. This proportion drops to 22% when parents often or always knew what their teen was doing online. A similar pattern is noted regardless of type of cybervictimization experienced. Data table for Chart 3  Data table for chart 3 Table summary This table displays the results of Data table for chart 3 Parents never or sometimes know online activity and Parents often or always know online activity (ref.), calculated using percentage units of measure (appearing as column headers). Parents never or sometimes know online activity Parents often or always know online activity (ref.) percentage Total youth aged 12 to 17 29Note * 22 Hurtful information was posted on the internet 12Note * 7 Threatened/insulted online or by text messages 20Note * 13 Excluded from an online community 15Note * 12 Note * significantly different from the reference category (ref.) (p<0.05) Return to note * referrer Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Health Survey of Children and Youth, 2019. Youth who have difficulty making friends are most vulnerable to online victimization Based on previous research,Note  knowing more people and having more friends, especially close friends can perhaps shield youth from being victimized, and if they are victimized, having friends can perhaps offset some of the negative impacts. Therefore, it is expected that individuals who have a difficult time making friends may be at greater risk of being victims of cyberbullying, as the person or persons victimizing them may believe them to be easier targets of abuse. In general, across all youth aged 12 to 17, most do not have any difficulty making friends, based on responses from parents. Just over 80% of parents reported that their teen had no difficulty in making friends, while 15% said that their teen had some difficulty and around 4% said that they had a lot of difficulty or could not do it at all. Across individual ages, these proportions are similar. Also, boys and girls have very similar patterns of ease of making friends (parents of around 80% of both boys and girls said that they had no difficulty making friends).Note  It bears mentioning that these are parents’ reports about their child’s purported difficulty making friends and therefore may not be the most accurate. Parents may not be fully aware of how well their child develops friendships, as this information may be intentionally hidden from them. With respect to cybervictimization, teens that have greater difficulty making friends have a greater risk of being cybervictimized than their peers without any difficulty. For example, 23% of youth whose parents said they have no difficulty making friends reported that they had been victims of cyberbullying in the past year.  This proportion climbs 12 percentage points to 35% if teens had a lot of difficulty or were unable to make friends (Table 3). A similar pattern was observed regardless of the type of cyberbullying. The relationship between the ease of making friends and cyberbullying was seen across all ages, though the gap appears to be greatest at age 16. For example, almost half (44%) of 16-year-old teens who had trouble forming friendship were cyberbullied, compared with 24% who had no difficulty making friends. Girls were especially vulnerable to cyberbullying when they had trouble making friends.Note  Overall, 40% of girls whose parents said had a lot of difficulty making friends, or were unable to do so, were cybervictimized. This compares to 23% of girls who had no difficulty making friends. The corresponding difference for boys was much lower, with 28% being cyberbullied if they had trouble making friends and 23% without any difficulty.  Table 3 Prevalence of cyberbullying among youth aged 12 to 17, by ease of developing friendships, 2019 Table summary This table displays the results of Prevalence of cyberbullying among youth aged 12 to 17. The information is grouped by Cyberbullying type, age and gender (appearing as row headers), Difficulty making friends, No difficulty (ref.), Some difficulty and A lot of difficulty /Cannot make friends, calculated using percent units of measure (appearing as column headers). Cyberbullying type, age and gender Difficulty making friendsTable 3 Note 1 No difficulty (ref.) Some difficulty A lot of difficulty or Cannot make friends percentage Total youth aged 12 to 17 23 32Note * 35Note * Type of cyberbullying Hurtful information was posted on the internet 7 14Note * 15Note * Threatened/insulted online or by text messages 15 22Note * 22Note * Excluded from an online community 12 18Note * 24Note * Age 12 years 18 27Note * 29 13 years 21 32Note * 32 14 years 22 28 39 15 years 27 32 28 16 years 24 35Note * 44Note * 17 years 24 40Note * 39 Gender Boys 23 29Note * 28 Girls 23 35Note * 39Note * Note 1 Based on responses from parents. Return to note 1 referrer Note * significantly different from reference category (ref.) (p < 0.05) Return to note * referrer Note: Due to sample size limitations, the non-binary category is not releasable. Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Health Survey of Children and Youth, 2019. Young adults: Women and young adults most often the target of cybervictimization The remainder of the study examines the patterns of cybervictimization among young adults aged 18 to 29.  To understand cyberbullying among this age group, three population-based surveys were used. These complementary surveys, while differing in survey design and measurement, shed light on the nature of cyberbullying and the young people most at risk. According to the 2018 SSPPS, 25% of young people aged 18 to 29 experienced some form of cybervictimization, with the most common being receiving unwanted sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages (15%) and aggressive or threatening emails, social media or text messages (13%) (Table 4). Young women were more often the target of the online abuse, with a prevalence almost double the rate for young men (32% versus 17%). This gender difference was even more pronounced for receiving unwanted sexually suggestive or explicit material, where young women were almost three times as likely to be targeted (22% versus 8%).Note   Therefore, the main gender differences appear to be with respect to cybervictimization of a sexualized nature, as there were no differences between men and women on solely aggressive content without sexual content.Note   Table 4 Prevalence of cybervictimization among young people aged 18 to 29, by age group, gender and type of cybervictimization, 2018 Table summary This table displays the results of Prevalence of cybervictimization among young people aged 18 to 29. The information is grouped by Type of cybervictimization (appearing as row headers), Total, Men, Women, Overall, 18-21 (ref.), 22-25 and 26-29, calculated using percent units of measure (appearing as column headers). Type of cybervictimization Total Men Women Young people aged 18 to 29 18 to 21 years (ref.) 22 to 25 years 26 to 29 years Young people aged 18 to 29 18 to 21 years (ref.) 22 to 25 years 26 to 29 years Young people aged 18 to 29 18 to 21 years (ref.) 22 to 25 years 26 to 29 years percentage Total 25 31 25 19Note * 17 25 16 13Note * 32Table 4 Note † 38Table 4 Note † 34Table 4 Note † 26Table 4 Note †Note * Received any threatening or aggressive emails, social media messages or text messages where you were the only recipient 13 14 13 11 9 12 8 8 16Table 4 Note † 17 18Table 4 Note † 14 You were the target of threatening or aggressive comments spread through group emails, group text messages or postings on social media 6 6 7 6 5 7 5 4 8 6 9 7 Somone posted or distributed (or threatened to) intimate or sexually explicit videos or images of you without your consent 2 2 3 2 2 3 2 1 3 2 5 3 Someone pressured you to send, share, or post sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages 6 10 5Note * 4Note * 3 5 3 3 9Table 4 Note † 16Table 4 Note † 8Table 4 Note †Note * 6Note * Someone sent you sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages when you did not want to receive them 15 20 17 10Note * 8 13 8 5Note * 22Table 4 Note † 27Table 4 Note † 26Table 4 Note † 16Table 4 Note †Note * Note † significant gender difference for a particular group (p < 0.05) Return to note † referrer Note * significantly different from reference category (ref.) (p < 0.05) Return to note * referrer Note: Due to sample size limitations, the non-binary category is not releasable. Source: Statistics Canada, Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces, 2018. For some types of cybervictimization, there was a significantly greater risk for young adults aged 18 to 21, as compared with young adults aged 26 to 29. For instance, about 20% of young adults aged 18 to 21 reported receiving unwanted sexually suggestive or explicit images or messeges in the last year, double the 10% of young adults aged 26 to 29 who said they also received these types of unwanted images or messages. Young adults aged 18 to 21 were also twice as likely to report being pressured to send, share or post sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages (10%) than their older counterparts (5% for ages 22 to 25 and 4% for ages 26 to 29). The relationship between cybervictimization and age is similar for both men and women, though rates are always higher for women. Both men and women have about a 12-percentage point gap between ages 18 and 21 and 26 and 29 in experiencing any of the five forms of cybervictimization in the past year (25% versus 13% for men, 38% versus 26% for women). With respect to the individual forms of cybervictimization, the largest decreases by age group related to sexual victimization, especially for women. For example, for women, there was about a 10-percentage point decline from age 18-21 to age 26-29 on being pressured to send, share or post sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages (16% to 6%) and receiving unwanted sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages (27% to 16%). Greater risk of cybervictimization among LGBTQ2 young adults Data from the SSPPS also show that LGBTQ2Note  young adults were more likely than their non-LGBTQ2 counterparts to have experienced cybervictimization (49% versus 23%).Note ,Note  Moreover, the decrease in the risk of cybervictimization across age groups is not seen among the LGBTQ2 population. That is, the proportion experiencing cybervictimization at ages 18 to 21 and late 20s is similar for LGBTQ2 adults, whereas the prevalence of cyberbullying among non-LGBTQ2 young adults declines by about half between the same ages (30% at age 18 to 21 to 18% at ages 26 to 29). Interestingly, among the LGBTQ2 population, the age group with the highest rates of cybervictimization are young adults aged 22 to 25 (at 58%).  This is a rare instance of a nonlinear age trend with respect to cybervictimization declining from age 18 to age 29.Note  First Nations young adults are more frequently the victims of cyberbullying Almost half (46%) of First Nations young people living off-reserve had experienced some form of cyberbullying in the preceding year. This was nearly double the share of non-Indigenous young adults (26%). There was no increased risk among Métis or Inuit young people.Note  Among racialized groups, the likelihood of being cyberbullied was similar to the non-racialized, non-Indigenous population. There was also no difference in risk by immigrant status.  Table 5 Prevalence of cybervictimization among young people aged 18 to 29, by selected characteristics, 2018 Table summary This table displays the results of Prevalence of cybervictimization among young people aged 18 to 29. The information is grouped by Selected characteristics (appearing as row headers), Percent (appearing as column headers). Selected characteristics percentage Total 25 Gender Men (ref.) 17 Women 32Note * Racialized population Black 23 Chinese 19 Filipino 16 South Asian 18 Non-racialized (ref.) 27 Immigrant status Immigrant (ref.) 20 Canadian-born 27 Indigenous identity First Nations 46Note * Métis 31 Inuit 13 Non-Indigenous (ref.) 26 Disability No 17Note * Yes (ref.) 39 Sexual/gender diversity LGBTQ2 (ref.) 49 Non-LGBTQ2 23Note * Note * significantly different from reference category (ref.) (p < 0.05) Return to note * referrer Note: Due to sample size limitations, the non-binary category is not releasable. Source: Statistics Canada, Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces, 2018. Young adults with a disability are more often targeted Young adults aged 18 to 29 with a disabilityNote  were significantly more likely to report that they were cybervictimized in the past year. Across all forms of cybervictimization measured in the SSPPS, 39% of young adults with a disability reported having experienced cyberbullying in the past year, compared with 17% of the nondisabled young adult population (Table 5).Note  The SSPPS also allows for the examination of gender differences among young men and women with a disability. Almost half (46%) of women with a disability had experienced cybervictimization in the past year, much higher than the 22% of women without a disability. The difference for men was less marked. In 2018, 27% of men with a disability were targeted online, compared to 14% of other young men. The severity of the disability also appears to heighten risk. Based on the SSPPS, 56% of young adults with a severe to very severe disability stated that they had been cybervictimized in the past year, while 46% with moderate disability and 34% of those with a mild disability stated the same. This compares to 17% of young adults without a disability that experienced cybervictimization in the past year.Note  Frequent smart phone use is related to cybervictimization Being continually connected to the Internet is common among young adults aged 18 to 29, though this may place them at increased risk. Over half (55%) checked their smart phone at least every 15 to 30 minutes, with another one-third (30%) checking their smart phone at least once per hour on a typical day. Heavy cell phone use, defined as checking at least every 5 minutes, was the least common, with 15% of youth falling into this category. However, heavy use was more prevalent in the younger age groups. In 2018, 17% of young adults aged 18 to 20 were heavy users, falling to 11% among those aged 27 to 29. The majority, around three quarters, of young adults between the ages of 18 and 29 also stated that the last thing they do before going to sleep is check their phones, and a similar percentage stated that they do this again first thing upon waking up. The rates of checking before bed and upon waking are very similar regardless of gender and age. About 4 out of 5 (82%) young adults aged 18 to 20 checked their phones when waking up, and 71% of young adults aged 27 to 29 did the same. This difference, however, was not statistically significant. A pattern, albeit weak, emerges showing that more frequent smart phone use is associated with more online victimization. Based on data from the CIUS, 15% of young adults who used their smart phone at least every 5 minutes said that they had been cybervictimized in the past year. This was double (statistically significant at the p < 0.10 level) the rate of young adults who checked their phone less often (7%)Note . There were no significant differences on whether one used the smart phone before going to bed or after waking up and cybervictimization in the past year. While a direct comparison cannot be made with the data from the CHSCY on ages 12 to 17 presented earlier, it is interesting to note that among 12-to-17-year-olds there was a significant association between using one’s electronic device at bedtime and risk of cybervictimization, with a higher risk noted especially for teens age 12 and age 15. Using protective measures online is more common among younger women Being victimized online can also lead people to pull back from social media and other online activities. For example, information from the SSPPS shows that about 22% of young adults aged 18 to 29 said that in the past year, they blocked people on the internet because of harassment, while 13% said they restricted their access to the internet to protect themselves from harassment. A further 3% deleted their online account because of harassment. Young women were twice as likely as young men to block people because of harassment (31% versus 13%) and to restrict their own access (17% versus 10%) (Chart 4). These gender differences may be driven by the higher overall cybervictimization rates for women.Note  Data table for Chart 4  Data table for chart 4 Table summary This table displays the results of Data table for chart 4 Men, Women, Young people aged 18 to 29, 18 to 21 years, 22 to 25 years and 26 to 29 years, calculated using percentage units of measure (appearing as column headers). Men Women Young people aged 18 to 29 18 to 21 years 22 to 25 years 26 to 29 years Young people aged 18 to 29 18 to 21 years 22 to 25 years 26 to 29 years percentage Blocked people because of harassment 13Note * 15Note * 13Note * 11Note * 31 35 33 27 Restricted own access to protect self 10Note * 7Note * 10Note * 11 17 14 20 17 Deleted online account because of harassment 3 2 3 2 4 4 5 4 Note * significant difference (p < 0.05) between men and women for a particular age group. Return to note * referrer Note: Due to sample size limitations, the non-binary category is not releasable. Source: Statistics Canada, Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces (SSPPS), 2018. Limiting online activities as a response to cybervictimization is not surprising. Results from the GSS show a strong association between being victimized online and taking other precautions for one’s safety beyond unplugging from the internet. For example, when asked if they do certain things routinely to make themselves safer from crime, young adults aged 18 to 29 who had been cybervictimized in the past year were much more likely to say that they carry something for defense, such as a whistle, a knife or pepper spray, compared with young adults who had not experienced online victimization (12% versus 3%).  Cybervictimization associated with other forms of victimization among young people There is often a strong association between different types of in-person victimization.Note  This is also the case for cybervictimization.  Young adults who have been cybervictimized were more likely to be victims of fraud, more likely to have been stalked and also more likely to have been physically or sexually assaulted in the past year. Data from the GSS showed a connection between cybervictimization and risk of fraud. For example, 17% of young adults who had been cybervictimized in the past year said that they had also been a victim of fraud in the past year, more than four times higher than young adults who had not experienced cybervictimization (4%).Note  Cybervictimization is also highly correlated with other forms of victimization and behaviour. For instance, information from the SSPPS shows that young adults who have experienced unwanted behaviours in public that made them feel unsafe or uncomfortable had also been victims of online harassment and bullying in the past year.Note  About 45% of young adults who had experienced such behaviours had been cybervictimized in the past year, compared with 11% who had not experienced such behaviours (Table 6). The relationship between online victimization and unwanted behaviours in public appears to be similar for men and women. In particular, 41% of men and 46% of women who had experienced unwanted behaviours in public had also been cybervictimized. This compares to around 10% of men and women who had not experienced such incidents.Note  Cybervictimization may manifest itself in real-world public encounters because victims of online abuse may be highly sensitized to possibly unsafe or uncomfortable situations in public, especially in instances where the identity of the online abuser is not known. For all they know, the person making them feel unsafe or uncomfortable in public might be the very same person harassing them online.  Table 6 Prevalence of cybervictimization among young people aged 18 to 29, by experiences of in-person victimization in the past 12 months and gender, 2018 Table summary This table displays the results of Prevalence of cybervictimization among young people aged 18 to 29. The information is grouped by Gender (appearing as row headers), Felt unsafe or uncomfortable in public, Stalked and Experienced physical/sexual assault (appearing as column headers). Gender Felt unsafe or uncomfortable in publicTable 6 Note 1 StalkedTable 6 Note 2 Experienced physical/sexual assault Table 6 Note 3 Yes (ref.) No Yes (ref.) No None (ref.) One incident Two or more incidents percentage Total young people aged 18 to 29 45 10Note * 67 22Note * 21 54Note * 64Note * Men 41 10Note * 57 16Note * 15 44Note * 54Note * Women 46 11Note * 72 29Note * 27 62Note * 70Note * Note * significantly different from reference category (ref.) (p < 0.05) Return to note * referrer Note 1 Respondents were asked: Thinking about time you spent in public spaces in the past 12 months, how many times has anyone made you feel unsafe or uncomfortable by doing any of the following? Making unwanted physical contact, such as hugs or shoulder rubs or getting too close to you in a sexual manner. Indecently exposing themselves to you or inappropriately displaying any body parts to you in a sexual manner. Making unwanted comments that you do not look or act like a [man/woman/man or woman] is supposed to look or act. Making unwanted comments about your sexual orientation or assumed sexual orientation. Giving you unwanted sexual attention, such as inappropriate comments, whistles, calls, suggestive looks, gestures, or body language. Return to note 1 referrer Note 2 Respondents were asked: In the past 12 months, have you been stalked, that is, have you been the subject of repeated and unwanted attention, by someone other than a current or former spouse, common-law partner or dating partner. Return to note 2 referrer Note 3 Respondents are asked if the following incidents happened to them in the past 12 months (excluding acts committed by a current or previous spouse, common-law partner or dating partner): a. been attacked, b. anyone threatened to hit or attack you or threatened you with a weapon, c. has someone touch them in a sexual way against their will, d. has someone forced or attempted to force them into unwanted sexual activity by threatening them, holding them down or hurting them in some way, e. has anyone subjected you to a sexual activity to which you were not able to consent, that is, were you drugged, intoxicated, manipulated or forced in other ways than physically. Respondents are then asked if these things happened in one incident or more than one incident. Return to note 3 referrer Note: Due to sample size limitations, the non-binary category is not releasable. Source: Statistics Canada, Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces, 2018. According to the SSPPS, young adults who have been stalked in the past year have also been victims of online bullying and harassment in the past year.Note   For instance, 67% of young adults who stated that they had been stalked in the past year also stated that they had been cybervictimized in the past 12 months, three times higher than young adults who had not been stalked in the past year (22%). The relationship is similar for both men and women, with over 72% of women and 57% of men who had been stalked also stating that they had been cybervictimized. Being a victim of stalking is more prevalent among women in general, as 32% of women stated they had been stalked, significantly greater than the 17% of men who stated that they had been stalked.Note  A connection between online victimization and physical and sexual assaults also exists.Note  Overall, among victims of physical and sexual assault, the proportion that said they were also cybervictimized was very high. In 2018, 54% of physical or sexual assault victims reported being cybervictimized, climbing to 64% if young people had experienced two or more incidents of physical or sexual assault. The strong association is present for both young adult men and women, with consistently higher prevalence for women regardless of number of physical or sexual assaults. Perpetrators of online victimization are most often men and known to the victim An important area of research on cybervictimization that is often lacking relates to the gender of the offender and the relationship between the offender and the victim. Using the SSPPS, it is possible to understand the characteristics of the perpetrator in cybervictimization incidents (Chart 5). About two-thirds (64%) of young adults who had been cybervictimized stated that a man (or men) was responsible, while 19% said it was a woman (or women), 4% said that it was both, and 13% did not know the gender of their online attacker. This general pattern was similar regardless of gender of the victim, though for women victims, the perpetrator was much more likely to be a man (or men). For instance, 73% of women who had been victimized stated that their offender(s) was (were) a man/men, while 13% stated that it was a woman or women. In contrast, 45% of men said that it was a man (or men) that was responsible, while 31% stated that their offender(s) was a woman or women. At the same time, 19% of men and 11% of women did not know the gender of their online offender.Note  Data table for Chart 5  Data table for chart 5 Table summary This table displays the results of Data table for chart 5 Total, Gender of victim, Male victim (ref.) and Female victim, calculated using percentage units of measure (appearing as column headers). Total Gender of victim Male victim (ref.) Female victim percentage Male offender 64 45 73Note * Female offender 19 31 13Note * Both male and female offenders 4 6 3 Don’t know 13 19 11 Note * significantly different from reference category (ref.) (p < 0.05) Return to note * referrer Note: Due to sample size limitations, the non-binary category is not releasable. Source: Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces (SSPPS), 2018. The SSPPS also has information on the relationship of the offender and victim for the most serious incident of inappropriate online behaviour (combining single and multiple offender incidents). The most common offenders, at 55%, were offenders known to the victim, including friends, neighbours, acquaintances, teachers, professors, managers, co-workers, and classmates, as well as family members or current or former partners including spouses, common-law partners or dating partners. Meanwhile, 45% were offenders who were not known to the victim, including strangers or persons known by sight only. Thus, results show that the perpetrator was known to the victim in more than 50% of cases, regardless of the gender of the victim. Based on the SSPPS, 53% of men victims and 56% of women victims knew the person victimizing them online.  Conclusion Internet and smart phone use among youth and young adults in Canada is at a very high level, particularly since the pandemic. It is a tether to the outside world, allowing communication with one another, expanding knowledge, and being entertained. It is this importance and pervasiveness that makes it particularly challenging when there are risks of online victimization. A goal of this study was to highlight the current state of cybervictimization among Canadian youth and young adults aged 12 to 29. Four separate surveys were used to paint a picture of who is most at risk of cybervictimization, how online and offline behaviours may contribute to this association, and the association with other forms of victimization. Based on the analysis of the data, there are five key messages related to cybervictimization of youth and young adults: Not all youth and young adults experience cybervictimization equally.  Those that are most vulnerable to online harm were youth aged 15 -17 with same-gender attraction or, more broadly, LGBTQ2 young adults aged 18-29, youth and young adults with a disability, Indigenous youth, and young adult women when the cybervictimization measures were more of a sexual nature. Cybervictimization increases during adolescence and remains high among young adults in their early 20s. The risk drops somewhat as young adults approach age 30. This age pattern was found using two surveys that allowed for prevalence estimates by smaller age groupings (CHSCY and SSPPS). The prevalence estimates were not completely comparable across ages 12 to 29, but the pattern remained. Greater internet use, as well as using devices at bedtime and upon waking up was associated with being cybervictimized. Potential buffers of this connection especially for the teenage population (ages 12-17) were not using devices at mealtime, having parents who often know what their teens were doing online, and having less difficulty making friends. Taking action to make themselves safer was seen for youth and young adults who have been cybervictimized. This included blocking people online, restricting their own internet access, and carrying something for protection when offline. Experiencing other forms of victimization was more common among those who were cybervictimized. This includes being stalked and being physically or sexually assaulted, and experiencing other types of unwanted behaviours in public. The benefits of the internet for the youth and young adult population are numerous, however, as this study has illustrated, there are certain risks associated with the anonymity and widespread exposure to many unknown factors while online. Knowing the socio-demographic factors and internet use patterns associated with cybervictimization can help tailor interventions to better prevent and respond to cybervictimization. Future analytical work should continue to better understand online victimization faced by youth and young adults. Darcy Hango is a senior researcher with Insights on Canadian Society at Statistics Canada. Start of text box Data sources, methods and definitions Four surveys are used in this paper: (1) Canadian Health Survey on Children and Youth (CHSCY), 2019; (2) Canadian Internet Use Survey (CIUS),2018-2019; (3) General Social Survey GSS on Victimization (cycle 34): 2019-2020, and (4) Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces (SSPPS): 2018. The analysis is split into 2 separate broad age groups: ages 12 to 17 is examined using the CHSCY, and ages 18 to 29 is examined using the CIUS, the GSS, and the SSPPS. There remain data gaps in cybervictimization. For instance, there is a need for more information on the perpetrators of cybervictimization. This may involve adding more follow-up questions on existing surveys, whether it is CHSCY or victimization surveys. Moreover, information on specific types of social media platforms, such as social networking sites, image-based sites and discussion forums would be helpful to pinpoint which applications are seeing the most incidents of cyberbullying. As internet use and potential harm is not restricted to people aged 12 and older, it would be critical to understand the prevalence and nature of cybervictimization for the youngest Canadians, those under the age of 12, recognizing that survey adaptation and ethical considerations would need to be considered. Lastly, certain population subgroups are more at risk of cybervictimization than others and the research for this study revealed that an inadequate sample size for some groups, such as Indigenous youth and young adults, as well as sexually and gender diverse youth and young adults, limits the ability to understand the dimensions of the issue for these populations. As such, it is necessary to consider oversampling certain groups to produce meaningful cybervictimization estimates. An additional concern, overarching many of the above issues, is the “digital divide”, particularly affecting communities in rural areas and the north. Recent statistics reveal that in 2017, 99% of Canadians had access to long term evolution (LTE) networks, though this was true for only about 63% of Northern residents.Note  The disparity in connectivity may have an adverse impact especially for the Indigenous population in terms of not only Indigenous youths’ underrepresentation in Canadian data on cyberbullying, but also digital literacy initiatives in Northern or in First Nations and Inuit communities. End of text box                                 Start of text box Cyberbullying content across four Statistics Canada surveys 1. Canadian Health Survey on Children and Youth (CHSCY), youth aged 12 to 17 years, 2019 (data collection period between February and August 2019) During the past 12 months, how often did the following things happen to you? Someone posted hurtful information about you on the Internet Someone threatened or insulted you through email, instant messaging, text messaging or an online game Someone purposefully excluded you from an online community 2. Canadian Internet Use Survey (CIUS), people aged 15 years and older, 2018-2019 (data collection period between November 2018 and March 2019) Universe: Internet users in the past 3 months During the past 12 months, have you felt that you were a victim of any of the following incidents on the Internet? Did you experience? Bullying, harassment, discrimination Misuse of personal pictures, videos or other content Other incident 3. General Social Survey GSS on Victimization (cycle 34), people aged 15 years and older, 2019-2020 (data collection period between April 2019 and March 2020) Universe: Internet users in the past 12 months In the past 5 years, have you experienced any of the following types of cyber-stalking or cyber-bullying? This can be narrowed down to past year by the following question: “You indicated that you experienced some type of cyber-stalking or cyber-bullying in the past 5 years. Did any occur in the past 12 months?” You received threatening or aggressive emails or instant messages where you were the only recipient You were the target of threatening or aggressive comments spread through group emails, instant messages or postings on Internet sites Someone sent out or posted pictures that embarrassed you or made you feel threatened Someone used your identity to send out or post embarrassing or threatening information Any other type 4. Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces (SSPPS), people aged 15 years and older, 2018 (data collection period between April and December 2018) Universe: Internet users in the past 12 months Indicate how many times in the past 12 months you have experienced each of the following behaviours while online. You received any threatening or aggressive emails, social media messages, or text messages where you were the only recipient You were the target of threatening or aggressive comments spread through group emails, group text messages or postings on social media Someone posted or distributed, or threatened to post or distribute, intimate or sexually explicit videos or images of you without your consent Someone pressured you to send, share, or post sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages Someone sent you sexually suggestive or explicit images or messages when you did not want to receive them End of text box Notes Note Internet-use Typology of Canadians: Online Activities and Digital Skills Return to note  referrer Note See Bilodeau, Kehler, and Minnema 2021 Return to note  referrer Note Canadians’ assessments of social media in their lives Return to note  referrer Note Other concerns as a result of increased internet and/or smart phone usage such as lack of sleep and anxiety are important but are left for other research. A recent example is an article by Schimmele et al 2021. Return to note  referrer Note Because there are already very comprehensive reviews of the prevalence and consequences of cybervictimization in Canada and abroad this is not gone into detail here. Readers should consult Zych et al 2019 ; Field 2018 for reviews, and Kim et al 2017; Hango 2016; and Holfeld and Leadbeater 2015 for examples of recent research using Canadian data. Return to note  referrer Note See Field, 2018 Return to note  referrer Note All differences are significant at p <0.05 level, unless otherwise noted. Return to note  referrer Note Questions on sexual attraction were only asked for youth aged 15 to 17. Return to note  referrer Note The Indigenous population covered in this paper are from all provinces and territories. In both the CHSCY and the SSPPS samples were selected from across Canada. The samples do not include youth and young adults living on First Nations reserves and other Aboriginal settlements. Return to note  referrer Note See Perreault 2022 for recent research focused on exploring victimization trends among the Indigenous population in Canada. Return to note  referrer Note The sample size for Inuit youth was too small to detect significant differences between groups. Return to note  referrer Note Wavrock, Schellenberg, and Schimmele 2021. Return to note  referrer Note The analysis by age is not shown but is available upon request. Return to note  referrer Note Sample size was not sufficient to conduct analyses in this section separately for the gender diverse population. Return to note  referrer Note See MediaSmarts 2022. Return to note  referrer Note See for example, research by Bollmer et al 2005 and Kendrick et al 2012. Return to note  referrer Note Due to sample size limitations, analysis does not include gender diverse youth. Return to note  referrer Note Due to sample size limitations, analysis does not include gender diverse youth. Return to note  referrer Note Due to sample size limitations, analysis does not include gender diverse young adults. Return to note  referrer Note Among ages 12 to 17, there were no differences between boys and girls on cybervictimization because none of the measures explicitly asked whether the bullying was of a sexual nature. Some additional analysis on the SSPPS on ages 15 to 17 (available upon request), showed that teen girls did report a significantly higher probability than teen boys of experiencing the three cybervictimization forms that explicitly tapped into the sexualized nature of the abuse. There were no gender differences on the two measures that only asked about aggressive cybervictimization. Return to note  referrer Note Based on the SSPPS derived variable of ‘LGBTQ2’, which uses responses to sex at birth, gender, and sexual orientation. Return to note  referrer Note This aligns with other research on violent victimization among the LGBTQ population. See Jaffray 2020; Cotter and Savage 2019. Return to note  referrer Note In the GSS, LGBTQ2 young adults also reported a significantly higher probability of experiencing cybervictimization in the form of pictures that embarrassed or threatened them (4.4% versus 1%). Return to note  referrer Note These estimates are not presented in a table but are available upon request. Return to note  referrer Note The sample size for Inuit young adults was too small to detect significant differences between groups. Return to note  referrer Note A person is defined as having a disability if he or she has one or more of the following types of disability: seeing, hearing, mobility, flexibility, dexterity, pain-related, learning, developmental, memory, mental health-related. Return to note  referrer Note In the GSS, a larger share of young adults with a disability also reported being cybervictimized via aggressive comments through email (4.3% versus 1.1%), and in CIUS, on any of the 3 types of cybervictimization measures (18.1% versus 7%). Return to note  referrer Note These results are not in a table and are available upon request. Based on the global severity score, severity classes were established. Severity scores increase with the number of disability types, the level of difficulty associated with the disability and the frequency of the activity limitation. The name assigned to each class is simply intended to facilitate use of the severity score. It is not a label or judgement concerning the person’s level of disability. The classes should be interpreted as follows: people in class 1 have a less severe disability than people in class 2; the latter have a less severe disability than people in class 3; and so on. For more information on severity scores and classes, please refer to the Canadian Survey on Disability (CSD), 2017: Concepts and Methods Guide. Return to note  referrer Note These proportions are not statistically different from each other due to high sampling variability. Return to note  referrer Note Recall that data from the SSPPS showed that 32% of young women said they were cybervictimized in the past year, compared with 17% of young men. Return to note  referrer Note See examples of some research that examines links between different types of victimization for example see Finkelhor et. al 2011; Turner et. al 2016; Waasdorp and Bradshaw 2015. Return to note  referrer Note Fraud in this case refers to having one’s personal information or account details used to obtain money or buy goods and services, having one’s personal information or account details used to create or access an account, apply for benefits, services or documents, and having been tricked or deceived out of money or goods either in person, by telephone or online. Return to note  referrer Note Respondents were asked: Thinking about time you spent in public spaces in the past 12 months, how many times has anyone made you feel unsafe or uncomfortable by doing any of the following? a. Making unwanted physical contact, such as hugs or shoulder rubs or getting too close to you in a sexual manner, b. Indecently exposing themselves to you or inappropriately displaying any body parts to you in a sexual manner, c. Making unwanted comments that you do not look or act like a (man/woman) is supposed to look or act, d. Making unwanted comments about your sexual orientation or assumed sexual orientation, or e. Giving you unwanted sexual attention, such as inappropriate comments, whistles, calls, suggestive looks, gestures, or body language. Return to note  referrer Note Due to sample size limitations, analysis does not include gender diverse young adults. Return to note  referrer Note Respondents were asked: In the past 12 months, have you been stalked, that is, have you been the subject of repeated and unwanted attention, by someone other than a current or former spouse, common-law partner or dating partner. Return to note  referrer Note These results are not shown in a table but are available upon request. Return to note  referrer Note In the SSPPS, respondents were asked if the following things happened to them in the past 12 months (excluding acts committed by a current or previous spouse, common-law partner or dating partner): a. been attacked, b. anyone threatened to hit or attack them or threatened them with a weapon, c. has someone touch them in a sexual way against their will, d. has someone forced or attempted to force them into unwanted sexual activity by threatening them, holding them down or hurting them in some way, e. has anyone subjected them to a sexual activity to which they were not able to consent, that is, were they drugged, intoxicated, manipulated or forced in other ways than physically. Respondents are then asked if these things happened in one incident or more than one incident. Return to note  referrer Note Due to sample size limitations, analysis does not include non-binary young adults. Return to note  referrer Note See CRTC Communications Monitoring Report, 2019. Return to note  referrer Related information Related Articles Bullying victimization among sexually and gender diverse youth in Canada Social Media Use, Connections and Relationships in Canadian Adolescents Findings from the 2018 Health Behaviour in School-aged Children (HBSC) Study Data sources Canadian Health Survey on Children and Youth Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces General Social Survey - Canadians' Safety Canadian Internet Use Survey Bibliographic references References How to cite this article  More information ISSN: 2291-0840 Note of appreciation Canada owes the success of its statistical system to a long-standing partnership between Statistics Canada, the citizens of Canada, its businesses, governments and other institutions. Accurate and timely statistical information could not be produced without their continued co-operation and goodwill. Standards of service to the public Statistics Canada is committed to serving its clients in a prompt, reliable and courteous manner. To this end, the Agency has developed standards of service which its employees observe in serving its clients. Copyright Published by authority of the Minister responsible for Statistics Canada. © His Majesty the King in Right of Canada as represented by the Minister of Industry, 2023 Use of this publication is governed by the Statistics Canada Open Licence Agreement. Catalogue no. 75-006-x Frequency: Occasional Ottawa Related infographics Cyberbullying among youth in Canada Cybervictimization among young adults in Canada Date modified: 2023-03-15

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    1. Open accessTips and Tools29 January 2021 Share on Sharing Notes Is Encouraged: Annotating and Cocreating with Hypothes.is and Google DocsAuthors: Carlos C. Goller ccgoller@ncsu.edu, Micah Vandegrift, Will Cross, Davida S. SmythAuthors Info & Affiliationshttps://doi.org/10.1128/jmbe.v22i1.2135 101,598MetricsTotal Citations10Total Downloads1,598View all metrics CitePDF/EPUBContents JMBE Volume 22, Number 130 April 2021ABSTRACTINTRODUCTIONPROCEDURECONCLUSIONACKNOWLEDGMENTSSupplemental MaterialREFERENCESInformation & ContributorsMetrics & CitationsReferencesFiguresTablesMediaShareABSTRACTEffectively analyzing literature can be challenging for those unfamiliar with studies from rapidly evolving research fields. Previous studies have shown that incorporating primary literature promotes scientific literacy and critical thinking skills. We’ve used collaborative note-taking and annotation of peer-reviewed articles to increase student engagement with course content and primary literature. Participants annotate articles using the web-annotation tool Hypothes.is and have access to comments from their peers. Groups are then assigned to summarize the annotations and findings, posting a synthesis for the course’s Hypothes.is group. In parallel, students contribute to common notes. The instructor generates a weekly video discussing the student notes. The goal of these activities is to foster an environment of open annotation and co-creation of knowledge to aid in studying for deeper learning. Compiled notes can be used to create an open educational resource (OER). The OER provides an entry point for future students and the public. Based on the evaluation of annotations, notes, and assessments, we conclude that these activities encourage student engagement and achievement of learning outcomes while raising awareness of the importance of open and collaborative practices.INTRODUCTIONReading primary literature can be challenging for those unfamiliar with terminology or methodology (1–3). Often, students highlight long passages or read over unfamiliar jargon without fully comprehending the significance and details of a study. Several approaches have been described to promote the critical reading and analysis of primary literature (4–9). While these methods provide structure, students often read and analyze in isolation, as the methods do not facilitate virtual and open peer collaboration. Additionally, note-taking is a skill that is not commonly taught or emphasized in science courses (10). To create an inclusive and empowering environment of cocreation of knowledge, we’ve infused an upper-division metagenomics course with activities to reduce the anxiety of reading primary literature and note-taking and promote collective and collaborative constructivism.Many tools are available that allow collaborative work on electronic documents. Google Docs, Sheets, and Slides can be used to enable participants to contribute. There are also resources to annotate web pages. One such tool often used in the humanities is Hypothes.is (11–14); it is free, open source, and easy to use in classroom settings, including online courses. Initiatives such as Science in the Classroom (https://www.scienceintheclassroom.org/) have led to studies highlighting the use of annotation as a pedagogical tool (15–17).Student collaborative notes and summaries can be used to create an Open Educational Resource (OER). Furthermore, student-created OERs can foster a sense of ownership as class participants work toward creating a common resource that will serve them and a wider audience beyond the course (18).PROCEDUREWe introduced the use of Hypothes.is and collaborative notes in the fall of 2019 in an 8-week upper-division undergraduate and graduate student Metagenomics course (19). The course has weekly lectures of 1 hour 50 minutes and 5-hour labs with a course-based research project that relies heavily on the assigned readings. There were 15 students enrolled in the course: 4 undergraduates and 11 graduate students. The study was approved by the NCSU IRB (#20309).Students annotate articles using Hypothes.is (https://web.hypothes.is/) and have access to all comments. Hypothes. is a free open-source software package that allows users to highlight and annotate websites and text. Students are required to submit at least 10 meaningful annotations before the in-class discussion (see Appendix 1). A week after the discussion, groups of three or four students assigned to summarize the article post a brief synopsis on the class’s Hypothes.is group (Fig. 1 and Appendix 1).FIGURE 1.FIGURE 1. “Sharing Notes is Encouraged” workflow. Students annotate and cocreate notes to produce an OER for studying and future course participants. Students use Hypothes.is to annotate primary literature as homework assignments, following set guidelines (for details see Appendix 1), and groups are tasked with creating shared summaries for the class to view within a Hypothes.is group. Students contribute to shared notes both during and outside of the class session. The instructor then uses the notes to produce weekly recaps to provide feedback and encouragement. Student contributions are then compiled to create a final OER, containing all notes and annotations generated over the course of the semester in a publicly viewable dynamic resource (for a sample OER, go to go.nscu.edu/bitmetagenomics) and click on “Meta Book”). PB, Pressbooks.For collective notes, students have access to a Google Doc with the learning outcomes for each class session. Students are encouraged to contribute by providing definitions, examples, and links to additional resources. Notes are not graded but are lightly edited by the instructor for accuracy. Peers can provide constructive feedback and correct, remedy, or amend misconceptions and inaccuracies. Each week the instructor generates a video reviewing the notes and administers individual quizzes based on the content of the class notes.Students are informed that, with their consent, their notes and annotations can be used to create an OER that would benefit them and others beyond the course. An example of a student-generated OER is available at go.ncsu.edu/bitmetagenomics.Materials and preparationInstructors create a private course Hypothes.is “group” and share the link with students via their Learning Management System (LMS) or e-mail. Students require free Hypothes.is accounts. If using the Google Chrome browser, there is a useful Hypothes.is extension. Helpful tutorials for using Hypothes.is in education can be found on the website: https://web.hypothes.is/education/. If Google Docs are to be used for shared class notes, the instructor needs to make the document editable by participants. The creation of a short link that is easy to remember may be helpful. The instructor should provide guidelines for annotation (types of annotations including asking questions, clarifying or linking to resources, and examples of tags used by others), expectations for the number of individual annotations, and grading rubrics (Appendix 1). Frequently presenting or projecting the progress of the class notes encourages participation. The instructor can read and discuss the class notes in a short (6- to 15-min) weekly screencast video posted on an unlisted YouTube playlist (e.g., https://go.ncsu.edu/metanotes19).Students that contribute to class notes can produce a final web-based Pressbooks OER. Pressbooks is an affordable ($20 to $100/eBook) and easy-to-use online eBook creation platform used by universities and the OER community [e.g., Granite State College OERs (https://granite.pressbooks.pub/) and BC Open Textbooks (https://opentextbc.ca/pressbooks/)].Modifications and extensionsThe Hypothes.is annotation and group summaries assignment has been adapted for other lab-based courses. For example, for an undergraduate and graduate student 8-week Yeast Metabolic Engineering lab module (20), we have modified the assignment guidelines to allow students to complete the minimum number of meaningful annotations after the in-person discussion of articles. This extension resulted in several participants returning to the papers weeks later to provide additional information. Guidelines can be modified to increase the minimum number of annotations, have students ask and respond to each other, find related studies, or alter the due dates (e.g., until after in-class discussion). The rubric for group summaries can be modified for different course learning outcomes (e.g., data analysis). An example of an annotated paper can be shared with students; for example, a microbiome study from Science in the Classroom can help students learn to annotate using different tags/elements (https://www.scienceintheclassroom.org/research-papers/whats-normal-scoop-poop).Instructors can choose to encourage all participants to contribute to class notes by making the assignment credit-bearing. Instead of weekly screencast videos, alternatives include an audio file, podcast, or e-mail announcement. Other OER platforms exist, and some faculty may decide to use WordPress or GoogleSites to create publicly accessible sites to publish the collective contributions of participants. Data privacy and consent cannot be overlooked: talk to your students about posting their names on publicly facing sites, after asking for their consent in writing. Instructors are encouraged to contact other faculty to collaborate on topic-specific OERs.CONCLUSIONStudents annotate and produce summaries and collaborative notes following the guidelines. Analysis of the annotations and quiz grades suggests that participants are engaging with the articles (Fig. 2) and able to summarize the findings of the studies (Appendix 2). Annotations of student-selected papers by groups indicate students continue to use rich annotations. Participants contribute to a Google Doc and view weekly video summaries.FIGURE 2.FIGURE 2. Students annotated assigned papers frequently and began using descriptive “tags.” (A) Students used the Hypothes.is tool to annotate reading assignments and tag keywords or phrases. Some students responded to other comments and included links and other resources. (B) All students’ (n = 15) annotated readings.We note that, while students unfamiliar with Hypothes.is require a demonstration, having seen the demonstration, participants are capable of providing productive comments about the studies. For all the articles we’ve included as reading, students have contributed definitions, links to additional resources, and even responses to questions posed by peers. We advise that instructors highlight the benefits of collaborative annotation and critical note-taking. Our study demonstrates the impact of creating a scholarly community to promote learning and how it can encourage participation and ownership of an OER project. Our implementation demonstrated that all students made annotations and contributed their thoughts and ideas to the shared notes document. These efforts helped constitute a student-derived OER that could serve not only these students beyond the course but others as well.ACKNOWLEDGMENTSThe NCSU OPEN Incubator Program (summer 2019) provided training and inspired us to use Hypothes.is in this course and beyond. We are grateful for funding from the National Science Foundation (NSF) and to the PALM network for providing mentorship and access to active learning resources. The NCSU Biotechnology Program (BIT) provided the resources to offer the Metagenomics and Yeast Metabolic Engineering courses in which these activities were implemented. C.C.G. is also supported by an NIH Innovative Program to Enhance Research Training (IPERT) grant, “Molecular Biotechnology Laboratory Education Modules (MBLEMs)” 1R25GM130528-01A1. We thank the students in the fall 2019 BIT 477/577 Metagenomics course for their patience, commitment, feedback, and energy. This study has been reviewed by the Institutional Review Board at North Carolina State University and approved under protocol number #20309. We do not have any conflicts of interest to declare.Supplemental MaterialFile (jmbe00006-21_supp_1_seq2.pdf)Download1000.11 KBASM does not own the copyrights to Supplemental Material that may be linked to, or accessed through, an article. The authors have granted ASM a non-exclusive, world-wide license to publish the Supplemental Material files. Please contact the corresponding author directly for reuse.REFERENCES1.Rawlings JS. 2019. Primary literature in the undergraduate immunology curriculum: strategies, challenges, and opportunities. Front Immunol 10:1857.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar2.Nelms AA, Segura-Totten M. 2019. Expert–novice comparison reveals pedagogical implications for students’ analysis of primary literature. CBE Life Sci Educ 18:ar56.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar3.Abdullah C, Parris J, Lie R, Guzdar A, Tour E. 2015. Critical analysis of primary literature in a master’s-level class: effects on self-efficacy and science-process skills. CBE Life Sci Educ 14:ar34.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar4.Liao MK. 2017. A simple activity to enhance the learning experience of reading primary literature. J Microbiol Biol Educ 18.Go to CitationViewPubMedGoogle Scholar5.Hoskins SG, Lopatto D, Stevens LM. 2011. The C.R.E.A.T.E. approach to primary literature shifts undergraduates’ self-assessed ability to read and analyze journal articles, attitudes about science, and epistemological beliefs. CBE Life Sci Educ 10:368–378.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar6.Gottesman AJ, Hoskins SG. 2013. CREATE cornerstone: introduction to scientific thinking, a new course for stem-interested freshmen demystifies scientific thinking through analysis of scientific literature. CBE Life Sci Educ 12:59–72.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar7.Carmichael JS, Allison LA. 2019. Using “research boxes” to enhance understanding of primary literature and the process of science. J Microbiol Biol Educ 20(2).Go to CitationViewPubMedGoogle Scholar8.Round JE, Campbell AM. 2013. Figure facts: encouraging undergraduates to take a data-centered approach to reading primary literature. CBE Life Sci Educ 12:39–46.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar9.Lo SM, Luu TB, Tran J. 2020. A modified CREATE intervention improves student cognitive and affective outcomes in an upper-division genetics course. J Microbiol Biol Educ 21(1).Go to CitationViewPubMedGoogle Scholar10.Morehead K, Dunlosky J, Rawson KA, Blasiman R, Hollis RB. 2019. Note-taking habits of 21st-century college students: implications for student learning, memory, and achievement. Memory 27:807–819.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar11.Kennedy M. 2016. Open annotation and close reading the Victorian text: using hypothes.is with students. J Vic Cult 21:550–558.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar12.Shrout AH. 2016. Hypothes.is. J Am Hist 103:870–871.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar13.Perkel JM. 2015. Annotating the scholarly web. Nat News 528:153.Go to CitationViewWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar14.Kalir JH, Dean J. 2018. Web annotation as conversation and interruption. Media Pract Educ 19:18–29.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar15.Kararo M, McCartney M. 2019. Annotated primary scientific literature: a pedagogical tool for undergraduate courses. PLOS Biol 17:e3000103.Go to CitationView Updates PubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar16.Miller K, Zyto S, Karger D, Yoo J, Mazur E. 2016. Analysis of student engagement in an online annotation system in the context of a flipped introductory physics class. Phys Rev Phys Educ Res 12:e020143.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar17.Sahota M, Leung B, Dowdell S, Velan GM. 2016. Learning pathology using collaborative vs. individual annotation of whole slide images: a mixed methods trial. BMC Med Educ 16:311.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar18.Yaeger J, Wolfe T. 2018. Creating the ripple effect: applying student-generated OER to increase engagement in distance education and enhance the OER community. Digital Universities 1/2.Go to CitationGoogle Scholar19.Goller CC, Ott LE. 2020. Evolution of an 8-week upper-division metagenomics course: diagramming a learning path from observational to quantitative microbiome analysis. Biochem Mol Biol Educ 48:391–403.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar20.Gordy CL, Goller CC. 2020. Using metabolic engineering to connect molecular biology techniques to societal challenges. Front Microbiol.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle ScholarInformation & ContributorsInformationContributorsInformationPublished In Journal of Microbiology & Biology EducationVolume 22 • Number 1 • 30 April 2021eLocator: 10.1128/jmbe.v22i1.2135PubMed: 33584941Copyright© 2021 Goller et al. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International license.HistoryReceived: 12 April 2020Accepted: 28 November 2020Published online: 29 January 2021TopicsAnnotation Tools and PipelinesGenome AnnotationGenome Assembly and AnnotationMicrobial GenomicsMicrobial Physiology and GeneticsMicrobiome ResearchDownload PDFContributorsExpand AllAuthorsCarlos C. Goller ccgoller@ncsu.eduDepartment of Biological Sciences and Biotechnology Program (BIT), North Carolina State University, Raleigh, NC 27695View all articles by this authorMicah VandegriftNC State University Libraries, Raleigh, NC 27695View all articles by this authorWill CrossNC State University Libraries, Raleigh, NC 27695View all articles by this authorDavida S. SmythEugene Lang College of Liberal Arts at The New School, New York City, NY 10011View all articles by this authorMetrics & CitationsMetricsCitationsMetrics Article MetricsView all metricsDownloadsCitationsNo data available.0204060Jan 2022Jan 2023Jan 2024Jan 20251,59810TotalFirst 90 Days6 Months12 MonthsTotal number of downloads and citations Note: For recently published articles, the TOTAL download count will appear as zero until a new month starts. There is a 3- to 4-day delay in article usage, so article usage will not appear immediately after publication. Citation counts come from the Crossref Cited by service. 11030Smart Citations11030Citing PublicationsSupportingMentioningContrastingView CitationsSee how this article has been cited at scite.aiscite shows how a scientific paper has been cited by providing the context of the citation, a classification describing whether it supports, mentions, or contrasts the cited claim, and a label indicating in which section the citation was made. Citations Citation text copied Copy Goller CC, Vandegrift M, Cross W, Smyth DS. 2021. Sharing Notes Is Encouraged: Annotating and Cocreating with Hypothes.is and Google Docs. J Microbiol Biol Educ. 22:10.1128/jmbe.v22i1.2135. https://doi.org/10.1128/jmbe.v22i1.2135 If you have the appropriate software installed, you can download article citation data to the citation manager of your choice. For an editable text file, please select Medlars format which will download as a .txt file. Simply select your manager software from the list below and click Download. Format RIS (ProCite, Reference Manager)EndNoteBibTexMedlarsRefWorks Direct import $(".js__slcInclude").on("change", function(e){ if ($(this).val() == 'refworks') $('#direct').prop("checked", false); $('#direct').prop("disabled", ($(this).val() == 'refworks')); }); View OptionsFiguresOpen all in viewerFIGURE 1. “Sharing Notes is Encouraged” workflow. Students annotate and cocreate notes to produce an OER for studying and future course participants. Students use Hypothes.is to annotate primary literature as homework assignments, following set guidelines (for details see Appendix 1), and groups are tasked with creating shared summaries for the class to view within a Hypothes.is group. Students contribute to shared notes both during and outside of the class session. The instructor then uses the notes to produce weekly recaps to provide feedback and encouragement. Student contributions are then compiled to create a final OER, containing all notes and annotations generated over the course of the semester in a publicly viewable dynamic resource (for a sample OER, go to go.nscu.edu/bitmetagenomics) and click on “Meta Book”). PB, Pressbooks.Go to FigureOpen in ViewerFIGURE 2. Students annotated assigned papers frequently and began using descriptive “tags.” (A) Students used the Hypothes.is tool to annotate reading assignments and tag keywords or phrases. Some students responded to other comments and included links and other resources. (B) All students’ (n = 15) annotated readings.Go to FigureOpen in ViewerTablesMediaShareShareShare the article linkhttps://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/jmbe.v22i1.2135Copy LinkCopied!Copying failed.Share with emailEmail a colleagueShare on social mediaFacebookX (formerly Twitter)LinkedInWeChatBlueskyReferencesReferencesREFERENCES1.Rawlings JS. 2019. Primary literature in the undergraduate immunology curriculum: strategies, challenges, and opportunities. Front Immunol 10:1857.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar2.Nelms AA, Segura-Totten M. 2019. Expert–novice comparison reveals pedagogical implications for students’ analysis of primary literature. CBE Life Sci Educ 18:ar56.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar3.Abdullah C, Parris J, Lie R, Guzdar A, Tour E. 2015. Critical analysis of primary literature in a master’s-level class: effects on self-efficacy and science-process skills. CBE Life Sci Educ 14:ar34.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar4.Liao MK. 2017. A simple activity to enhance the learning experience of reading primary literature. J Microbiol Biol Educ 18.Go to CitationViewPubMedGoogle Scholar5.Hoskins SG, Lopatto D, Stevens LM. 2011. The C.R.E.A.T.E. approach to primary literature shifts undergraduates’ self-assessed ability to read and analyze journal articles, attitudes about science, and epistemological beliefs. CBE Life Sci Educ 10:368–378.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar6.Gottesman AJ, Hoskins SG. 2013. CREATE cornerstone: introduction to scientific thinking, a new course for stem-interested freshmen demystifies scientific thinking through analysis of scientific literature. CBE Life Sci Educ 12:59–72.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar7.Carmichael JS, Allison LA. 2019. Using “research boxes” to enhance understanding of primary literature and the process of science. J Microbiol Biol Educ 20(2).Go to CitationViewPubMedGoogle Scholar8.Round JE, Campbell AM. 2013. Figure facts: encouraging undergraduates to take a data-centered approach to reading primary literature. CBE Life Sci Educ 12:39–46.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar9.Lo SM, Luu TB, Tran J. 2020. A modified CREATE intervention improves student cognitive and affective outcomes in an upper-division genetics course. J Microbiol Biol Educ 21(1).Go to CitationViewPubMedGoogle Scholar10.Morehead K, Dunlosky J, Rawson KA, Blasiman R, Hollis RB. 2019. Note-taking habits of 21st-century college students: implications for student learning, memory, and achievement. Memory 27:807–819.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar11.Kennedy M. 2016. Open annotation and close reading the Victorian text: using hypothes.is with students. J Vic Cult 21:550–558.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar12.Shrout AH. 2016. Hypothes.is. J Am Hist 103:870–871.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar13.Perkel JM. 2015. Annotating the scholarly web. Nat News 528:153.Go to CitationViewWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar14.Kalir JH, Dean J. 2018. Web annotation as conversation and interruption. Media Pract Educ 19:18–29.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar15.Kararo M, McCartney M. 2019. Annotated primary scientific literature: a pedagogical tool for undergraduate courses. PLOS Biol 17:e3000103.Go to CitationView Updates PubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar16.Miller K, Zyto S, Karger D, Yoo J, Mazur E. 2016. Analysis of student engagement in an online annotation system in the context of a flipped introductory physics class. Phys Rev Phys Educ Res 12:e020143.Go to CitationViewGoogle Scholar17.Sahota M, Leung B, Dowdell S, Velan GM. 2016. Learning pathology using collaborative vs. individual annotation of whole slide images: a mixed methods trial. BMC Med Educ 16:311.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar18.Yaeger J, Wolfe T. 2018. Creating the ripple effect: applying student-generated OER to increase engagement in distance education and enhance the OER community. Digital Universities 1/2.Go to CitationGoogle Scholar19.Goller CC, Ott LE. 2020. Evolution of an 8-week upper-division metagenomics course: diagramming a learning path from observational to quantitative microbiome analysis. Biochem Mol Biol Educ 48:391–403.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar20.Gordy CL, Goller CC. 2020. Using metabolic engineering to connect molecular biology techniques to societal challenges. Front Microbiol.Go to CitationViewPubMedWeb of ScienceGoogle Scholar Advertisement
    1. 1.  At the age of eight, she_______________________ speak three languages. 2.  And when she was ten, she ___________________________ speak another two languages. 3.  When I was fifteen, I ________________________ ride a motorbike. 4.  However, at age fifteen, I  ____________________________ drive a car. 5.  Unfortunately, I ______________________________ find my keys last night when I got home last night. 6.  Fortunately, I ____________________________ unlock the door with a spare key last night. 7.  However, I _______________________ find the original keys at that time. 8.  The rescuers _______________________contact the trapped miners soon after the mine collapsed yesterday. 9.  She ______________________ smell gas coming from the stove, so she turned off the burner. 10.  However, she  ____________________________ see the escaping gas. 11.  I ________________________________understand anything that he was saying. 12.  We ______________________________ hear Joe enter the house because he made a loud noise.

      she could / was able to speak she was able to speak I could / was able to ride I couldn’t / wasn’t able to drive I couldn’t / wasn’t able to find /I was able to unlock I couldn’t / wasn’t able to find /were able to contact /She could smell/ she couldn’t see/ I couldn’t / wasn’t able to understand /We could hear

    2. 1.____ I was able to ride a bike when I was ten years old. 2.____ Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make a dentist appointment for this week. 3.____ We were able to get an excellent price on flights for our trip. 4.____ Sherry was able to run faster than her brother when they were young. 5.____ David was able to lift heavy boxes before his injury. 6.____ Randy was not able to drive until age eighteen. 7.____ I used to be able to sing. 8.____ The students were able to pass the Final Exam last fall. 9.____ Were you able to finish your homework yesterday?

      1GA 2SA 3SA 4GA 5GA 6GA 7GA 8SA 9SA

    3. Complete these sentences about past ability using could/couldn't or was/were able to. More than one answer may be correct. If two answers are correct, write both answers. 1.  At the age of eight, she_______________________ speak three languages. 2.  And when she was ten, she ___________________________ speak another two languages. 3.  When I was fifteen, I ________________________ ride a motorbike. 4.  However, at age fifteen, I  ____________________________ drive a car. 5.  Unfortunately, I ______________________________ find my keys last night when I got home last night. 6.  Fortunately, I ____________________________ unlock the door with a spare key last night. 7.  However, I _______________________ find the original keys at that time. 8.  The rescuers _______________________contact the trapped miners soon after the mine collapsed yesterday. 9.  She ______________________ smell gas coming from the stove, so she turned off the burner. 10.  However, she  ____________________________ see the escaping gas. 11.  I ________________________________understand anything that he was saying. 12.  We ______________________________ hear Joe enter the house because he made a loud noise.

      she could / was able to speak she was able to speak I could / was able to ride I couldn’t / wasn’t able to drive I couldn’t / wasn’t able to find I was able to unlock I couldn’t / wasn’t able to find were able to contact She could smell she couldn’t see I couldn’t / wasn’t able to understand We could hear

    4. Decide whether the sentence describes a specific or general ability Write SA for specific ability and GA for general ability. 1.____ I was able to ride a bike when I was ten years old. 2.____ Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make a dentist appointment for this week. 3.____ We were able to get an excellent price on flights for our trip. 4.____ Sherry was able to run faster than her brother when they were young. 5.____ David was able to lift heavy boxes before his injury. 6.____ Randy was not able to drive until age eighteen. 7.____ I used to be able to sing. 8.____ The students were able to pass the Final Exam last fall. 9.____ Were you able to finish your homework yesterday?

      1GA 2SA 3SA 4GA 5GA 6GA 7GA 8SA 9SAI could ride a bike when I was ten years old.

      Sherry could run faster than her brother when they were young.

      David could lift heavy boxes before his injury.

      Randy could not drive until age eighteen.

      I could sing.

    1. 8. You shouldn’t forget to lock your door.   /*<![CDATA[*/ $(function() { if(!window['autoDefinitionList']){ window['autoDefinitionList'] = true; $('dl').find('dt').on('click', function() { $(this).next().toggle('350'); }); } });/*]]>*/ /*<![CDATA[*/window.addEventListener('load', function(){$('iframe').iFrameResize({warningTimeout:0, scrolling: 'omit'});})/*]]>*//*<![CDATA[*/ window.PageNum = "auto"; window.InitialOffset = "false"; window.PageName = "6.2: Negatives of Modals"; /*]]>*/ /*<![CDATA[*/ //<!-- MathJax Config --> var front = window.PageNum.trim(); if(front=="auto"){ front = window.PageName.replace('\"', '\\\"').trim(); //front = "'..string.matchreplace(PageName,'\"','\\\"')..'".trim(); if(front.includes(":")){ front = front.split(":")[0].trim(); if(front.includes(".")){ front = front.split("."); front = front.map((int)=>int.includes("0")?parseInt(int,10):int).join("."); } front+="."; } else { front = ""; } } front = front.trim(); function loadMathJaxScript() { try { const script = document.createElement('script'); script.id = "mathjax-script"; script.src = "https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/mathjax@4/tex-mml-svg.js"; script.type = "text/javascript"; script.defer = true; document.head.appendChild(script); } catch (err) { console.error(err); } } document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', (e) => { loadMathJaxScript(); }); if (window.PageName !== 'Realtime MathJax'){ MathJax = { options: { ignoreHtmlClass: "tex2jax_ignore", processHtmlClass: "tex2jax_process", menuOptions: { settings: { zscale: "150%", zoom: "Double-Click", assistiveMml: true, // true to enable assitive MathML collapsible: false, // true to enable collapsible math }, }, }, output: { scale: 0.85, mtextInheritFont: false, displayOverflow: "linebreak", linebreaks: { width: "100%", }, }, startup: { pageReady: () => { if (window.activateBeeLine) { window.activateBeeLine(); } return MathJax.startup.defaultPageReady(); }, }, chtml: { matchFontHeight: true, }, tex: { tags: "all", tagformat: { number: (n) => { if (window.InitialOffset) { const offset = Number(window.InitialOffset); if(!offset) { return front + n; // If offset is falsy (nan, undefined, etc.) } const added = Number(n) + offset; return front + added; } else { return front + n; } }, }, macros: { eatSpaces: ['#1', 2, ['', ' ', '\\endSpaces']], PageIndex: ['{' + front.replace(/\./g, '{.}') + '\\eatSpaces#1 \\endSpaces}', 1], test: ["{" + front + "#1}", 1], mhchemrightleftharpoons: "{\\unicode{x21CC}\\,}", xrightleftharpoons: ['\\mhchemxrightleftharpoons[#1]{#2}', 2, ''] }, packages: { "[+]": [ "mhchem", "color", "cancel", "ams", "tagformat" ], }, }, loader: { '[tex]/mhchem': { ready() { const {MapHandler} = MathJax._.input.tex.MapHandler; const mhchem = MapHandler.getMap('mhchem-chars'); mhchem.lookup('mhchemrightarrow')._char = '\uE42D'; mhchem.lookup('mhchemleftarrow')._char = '\uE42C'; } }, load: [ "[tex]/mhchem", "[tex]/color", "[tex]/cancel", "[tex]/tagformat", ], }, }; }; //<!-- End MathJax Config -->/*]]>*/

      It is bad advice to forget to lock your door (it is not a good idea )

  2. Dec 2025
    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The manuscript by Shan et al seeks to define the role of the CHI3L1 protein in macrophages during the progression of MASH. The authors argue that the Chil1 gene is expressed highly in hepatic macrophages. Subsequently, they use Chil1 flx mice crossed to Clec4F-Cre or LysM-Cre to assess the role of this factor in the progression of MASH using a high fat high, fructose diet (HFFC). They found that loss of Chil1 in KCs (Clec4F Cre) leads to enhanced KC death and worsened hepatic steatosis. Using scRNA seq they also provide evidence that loss of this factor promotes gene programs related to cell death. From a mechanistic perspective they provide evidence that CHI3L serves as a glucose sink and thus loss of this molecule enhances macrophage glucose uptake and susceptibility to cell death. Using a bone marrow macrophage system and KCs they demonstrate that cell death induced by palmitic acid is attenuated by the addition of rCHI3L1. While the article is well written and potentially highlights a new mechanism of macrophage dysfunction in MASH and the authors have addressed some of my concerns there are some concerns about the current data that continue to limit my enthusiasm for the study. Please see my specific comments below.

      Major:

      (1) The authors' interpretation of the results from the KC ( Clec4F) and MdM KO (LysM-Cre) experiments is flawed. The authors have added new data that suggests LyM-Cre only leads to a 40% reduction of Chil1 in KCs and that this explains the difference in the phenotype compared to the Clec4F-Cre. However, this claim would be made stronger using flow sorted TIM4hi KCs as the plating method can lead to heterogenous populations and thus an underestimation of knockdown by qPCR. Moreover, in the supplemental data the authors show that Clec4f-Cre x Chil1flx leads to a significant knockdown of this gene in BMDMs. As BMDMs do not express Clec4f this data calls into question the rigor of the data. I am still concerned that the phenotype differences between Clec4f-cre and LyxM-cre is not related to the degree of knockdown in KCs but rather some other aspect of the model (microbiota etc). It woudl be more convincing if the authors could show the CHI3L reduction via IF in the tissue of these mice.

      (2) Figure 4 suggests that KC death is increased with KO of Chil1. The authors have added new data with TIM4 that better characterizes this phenotype. The lack of TIM4 low, F4/80 hi cells further supports that their diet model is not producing any signs of the inflammatory changes that occur with MASLD and MASH. This is also supported by no meaningful changes in the CD11b hi, F4/80 int cells that are predominantly monocytes and early Mdms). It is also concerning that loss of KCs does not lead to an increase in Mo-KCs as has been demonstrated in several studies (PMID37639126, PMID:33997821). This would suggest that the degree of resident KC loss is trivial.

      (3) The authors demonstrated that Clec4f-Cre itself was not responsible for the observed phenotype, which mitigates my concerns about this influencing their model.

      (4) I remain somewhat concerned about the conclusion that Chil1 is highly expressed in liver macrophages. The author agrees that mRNA levels of this gene are hard to see in the datasets; however, they argue that IF demonstrates clear evidence of the protein, CHI3L. The IF in the paper only shows a high power view of one KC. I would like to see what percentage of KCs express CHI3L and how this changes with HFHC diet. In addition, showing the knockout IF would further validate the IF staining patterns.

      Minor:

      (1) The authors have answered my question about liver fibrosis. In line with their macrophage data their diet model does not appear to induce even mild MASH.

    2. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This paper investigates the role of Chi3l1 in regulating the fate of liver macrophages in the context of metabolic dysfunction leading to the development of MASLD. I do see value in this work, but some issues exist that should be addressed as well as possible.

      Here are my comments:

      (1) Chi3l1 has been linked to macrophage functions in MASLD/MASH, acute liver injury, and fibrosis models before (e.g., PMID: 37166517), which limits the novelty of the current work. It has even been linked to macrophage cell death/survival (PMID: 31250532) in the context of fibrosis, which is a main observation from the current study.

      (2) The LysCre-experiments differ from experiments conducted by Ariel Feldstein's team (PMID: 37166517). What is the explanation for this difference? - The LysCre system is neither specific to macrophages (it also depletes in neutrophils, etc), nor is this system necessarily efficient in all myeloid cells (e.g., Kupffer cells vs other macrophages). The authors need to show the efficacy and specificity of the conditional KO regarding Chi3l1 in the different myeloid populations in the liver and the circulation.

      (3) The conclusions are exclusively based on one MASLD model. I recommend confirming the key findings in a second, ideally a more fibrotic, MASH model.

      (4) Very few human data are being provided (e.g., no work with own human liver samples, work with primary human cells). Thus, the translational relevance of the observations remains unclear.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have done a thorough job addressing my comments. However, I am not convinced about the MCD diet model, which is somewhat hidden in the Supplementary Files. Neither seems MASH different nor are any fibrosis data shown to support the conclusions. I am not satisfied with this part of the revised manuscript, and I do not agree that the second MASH model would support the conclusions.

    3. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      The manuscript by Shan et al seeks to define the role of the CHI3L1 protein in macrophages during the progression of MASH. The authors argue that the Chil1 gene is expressed highly in hepatic macrophages. Subsequently, they use Chil1 flx mice crossed to Clec4F-Cre or LysM-Cre to assess the role of this factor in the progression of MASH using a high-fat, high-cholesterol diet (HFHC). They found that loss of Chil1 in KCs (Clec4F Cre) leads to enhanced KC death and worsened hepatic steatosis. Using scRNA seq, they also provide evidence that loss of this factor promotes gene programs related to cell death. From a mechanistic perspective, they provide evidence that CHI3L serves as a glucose sink and thus loss of this molecule enhances macrophage glucose uptake and susceptibility to cell death. Using a bone marrow macrophage system and KCs they demonstrate that cell death induced by palmitic acid is attenuated by the addition of rCHI3L1. While the article is well written and potentially highlights a new mechanism of macrophage dysfunction in MASH, there are some concerns about the current data that limit my enthusiasm for the study in its current form. Please see my specific comments below.

      (1) The authors' interpretation of the results from the KC (Clec4F) and MdM KO (LysM-Cre) experiments is flawed. For example, in Figure 2 the authors present data that knockout of Chil1 in KCs using Clec4f Cre produces worse liver steatosis and insulin resistance. However, in supplemental Figure 4, they perform the same experiment in LysM-Cre mice and find a somewhat different phenotype. The authors appear to be under the impression that LysM-Cre does not cause recombination in KCs and therefore interpret this data to mean that Chil1 is relevant in KCs and not MdMs. However, LysM-Cre DOES lead to efficient recombination in KCs and therefore Chil1 expression will be decreased in both KCs and MdM (along with PMNs) in this line.

      Therefore, a phenotype observed with KC-KO should also be present in this model unless the authors argue that loss of Chil1 from the MdMs has the opposite phenotype of KCs and therefore attenuates the phenotype. The Cx3Cr1 CreER tamoxifen inducible system is currently the only macrophage Cre strategy that will avoid KC recombination. The authors need to rethink their results with the understanding that Chil1 is deleted from KCs in the LysM-Cre experiment. In addition, it appears that only one experiment was performed, with only 5 mice in each group for both the Clec4f and LysM-Cre data. This is generally not enough to make a firm conclusion for MASH diet experiments.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point regarding our data interpretation. We have carefully examined the deletion efficiency of Chi3l1 in primary Kupffer cells (KCs) from Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> (LysM-Cre) mice. Our results show roughly a 40% reduction in Chi3l1 expression at both the mRNA and protein levels (Revised Manuscript, Figure S7B and C). Given this modest decrease, Chi3l1 deletion in KCs of Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice was incomplete, which likely accounts for the phenotypic differences observed between Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> and Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice in the MASLD model.

      Furthermore, we have increased the sample size in both the Clec4f- and LysM-Cre experiments to 9–12 mice per group following the HFHC diet, thereby strengthening the statistical power and reliability of our findings (Revised Figures 2 and S8).

      (2) The mouse weight gain is missing from Figure 2 and Supplementary Figure 4. This data is critical to interpret the changes in liver pathology, especially since they have worse insulin resistance.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable comment. We have now included the mouse body weight data in the revised manuscript (Figure 2A, B and Figures S8A, B). Compared with mice on a normal chow diet (NCD), all groups exhibited progressive weight gain during HFHC diet feeding. Notably, Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice gained significantly more body weight than Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> controls, whereas Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice showed a similar weight gain trajectory to Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> mice under the same conditions.

      (3) Figure 4 suggests that KC death is increased with KO of Chil1. However, this data cannot be concluded from the plots shown. In Supplementary Figure 6 the authors provide a more appropriate gating scheme to quantify resident KCs that includes TIM4. The TIM4 data needs to be shown and quantified in Figure 4. As shown in Supplementary Figure 6, the F4/80 hi population is predominantly KCs at baseline; however, this is not true with MASH diets. Most of the recruited MoMFs also reside in the F4/80 hi gate where they can be identified by their lower expression of TIM4. The MoMF gate shown in this figure is incorrect. The CD11b hi population is predominantly PMNs, monocytes, and cDC,2 not MoMFs (PMID:33997821). In addition, the authors should stain the tissue for TIM4, which would also be expected to reveal a decrease in the number of resident KCs.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this critical point regarding the gating strategy and interpretation of KC death. We have now refined our flow cytometry gating based on the reviewer’s suggestion. Specifically, we analyzed TIM4 expression and attempted to identify TIM4<sup>low</sup> MoMFs populations in our model. However, we did not detect a distinct TIM4<sup>low</sup> population, likely because our mice were fed the HFHC diet for only 16 weeks and had not yet developed liver fibrosis. We therefore reason that MoMFs have not fully acquired TIM4 expression at this stage.

      To improve our analysis, we referred to published strategies (PMID: 41131393; PMID: 32562600) and gated KCs as CD45<sup>+</sup>CD11b<sup>+</sup>F4/80<sup>hi</sup> TIM4<sup>hi</sup> and MoMFs as CD45<sup>+</sup>Ly6G<sup>-</sup>CD11b<sup>+</sup>F4/80<sup>low</sup> TIM4<sup>low/-</sup>. Using this approach, we observed a gradual reduction of KCs and a corresponding increase in MoMFs in WT mice, with a significantly faster loss of KCs in Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice (Revised Figure 4C, D; Figure S10A).

      Furthermore, immunofluorescence staining for TIM4 combined with TUNEL or cleaved caspase-3 confirmed an increased number of dying KCs in Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice compared to WT following HFHC diet feeding (Revised Figure 4E; Figure S10B).

      (4) While the Clec4F Cre is specific to KCs, there is also less data about the impact of the Cre system on KC biology. Therefore, when looking at cell death, the authors need to include some mice that express Clec4F cre without the floxed allele to rule out any effects of the Cre itself. In addition, if the cell death phenotype is real, it should also be present in LysM Cre system for the reasons described above. Therefore, the authors should quantify the KC number and dying KCs in this mouse line as well.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. During our study, we indeed observed an increased number of KCs in Clec4f-Cre mice compared to WT controls, suggesting that the Clec4f-Cre system itself may modestly affect KC homeostasis. To address this, we compared KCs numbers between Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> and Clec4f-Cre mice and found that Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice displayed a significant reduction in KCs numbers following HFHC diet feeding. Moreover, co-staining for TIM4 and TUNEL revealed a marked increase in KCs death in Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice relative to Clec4f-Cre mice, indicating that the observed phenotype is attributable to Chil1 deletion rather than Cre expression alone. These data have been reported in our related manuscript (He et al., bioRxiv, 2025.09.26.678483; doi: 10.1101/2025.09.26.678483).

      In addition, we quantified KCs numbers and KCs death in the Lyz2-Cre line. TIM4/TUNEL co-staining showed comparable levels of KCs death between Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> and Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice (Revised Figure S11B). Consistently, flow cytometry analyses revealed no significant differences in KCs numbers between these two groups before (0 weeks) or after (20 weeks) HFHC diet feeding (Revised Figures S11C, D). As discussed in our response to Comment 1, this may be due to the incomplete deletion of Chi3l1 in KCs (<50%) in the Lyz2-Cre line, which likely attenuates the phenotype.

      (5) I am somewhat concerned about the conclusion that Chil1 is highly expressed in liver macrophages. Looking at our own data and those from the Liver Atlas it appears that this gene is primarily expressed in neutrophils. At a minimum, the authors should address the expression of Chil1 in macrophage populations from other publicly available datasets in mouse MASH to validate their findings (several options include - PMID: 33440159, 32888418, 32362324). If expression of Chil1 is not present in these other data sets, perhaps an environmental/microbiome difference may account for the distinct expression pattern observed. Either way, it is important to address this issue.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment and agree that analysis of scRNA-seq data, including our own and those reported in the Liver Atlas as well as in the referenced studies (PMID: 33440159, 32888418, 32362324), indicates that Chil1 is predominantly expressed in neutrophils.

      However, our immunofluorescence staining under normal physiological conditions revealed that Chi3l1 protein is primarily localized in Kupffer cells (KCs), as demonstrated by strong co-staining with TIM4 (Revised Figure 1E). In MASLD mouse models induced by HFHC or MCD diets, we observed that both KCs and monocyte-derived macrophages (MoMFs) express Chi3l1, with particularly high levels in MoMFs.

      We speculate that the apparent discrepancy between scRNA-seq datasets and our in situ findings may reflect differences in cellular proportions and detection sensitivity. Since hepatic macrophages (particularly KCs and MoMFs) constitute a larger proportion of total liver immune cells compared with neutrophils, their contribution to total Chi3l1 protein levels in tissue staining may appear dominant, despite lower transcript abundance per cell in sequencing datasets. We have included a discussion of this point in the revised manuscript to clarify this distinction (Revised manuscript, page 8,line 341-350 ).

      Minor points:

      (1) Were there any changes in liver fibrosis or liver fibrosis markers present in these experiments?

      We assessed liver fibrosis using Sirius Red staining and α-SMA Western blot analysis.

      We found no induction of liver fibrosis in our HFHC-induced MASLD model (Revised Figure S1A, B), but a clear elevation of fibrosis markers in the MCD-induced MASH model (Revised Figure S6A, B).

      (2) In Supplementary Figure 3, the authors do a western blot for CHI3L1 in BMDMs. This should also be done for KCs isolated from these mice. Does this antibody work for immunofluorescence? Staining liver tissue would provide valuable information on the expression patterns.

      We have included qPCR and western blot for Chi3l1 in isolated primary KCs from Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice. The data show a slight, non-significant reduction in both mRNA and protein levels in KCs (Revised Figure S7B, C). The immunofluorescence staining on liver tissue showed that Chi3l1 is more likely expressed in the plasma membranes of TIM4<sup>+</sup> F4/80<sup>+</sup> KCs both under NCD and HFHC diet (Revised Figure 1E).

      (3) What is the impact of MASH diet feeding on Chil1 expression in KCs or in the liver in general?

      In both our MASLD and MASH models, diet feeding consistently upregulates Chi3l1 in KCs or in the liver in general (Revised Figure 1F, G, S6C,D).

      (4) In Figure S1 the authors show tSNE plots of various monocyte and macrophage genes in the liver. Are these plots both diets together? How do things look when comparing these markers between the STD and HFHC diet? The population of recruited LAMs seems very small for 16 weeks of diet. Moreover, Chil1 should also be shown on these tSNE plots as well.

      Yes, these plots are both diets together. When compared separately, the core marker expression is consistent between NCD and HFHC diets. However, the HFHC diet induces a relative increase in KC marker expression within the MoMF cluster, suggesting phenotypic adaptation (Author response image 1A, below). Moreover, Chil1 expression on the t-SNE plot was shown (Author response image 1B, below). However, compared to lineage-specific marker genes, Chi3l1 expression is rather low.

      Author response image 1.

      Gene expression levels of lineage-specific marker genes in monocytes/macrophages clusters between NCD and HFHC diets. (A) UMAP plots show the scaled expression changes of lineage-specific markers in KCs/monocyte/macrophage clusters from mice under NCD and HFHC diets. Color represents the level of gene expression. (B) UMAP plots show the scaled expression changes of Chil1 in KCs/monocyte/macrophage clusters from mice under NCD and HFHC diets. Color represents the level of gene expression.

      (5) In Figure 5, the authors demonstrate that CHI3L1 binds to glucose. However, given that all chitin molecules bind to carbohydrates, is this a new finding? The data showing that CHI3L is elevated in the serum after diet is interesting. What happens to serum levels of this molecule in KC KO or total macrophage KO mice? Do the authors think it primarily acts as a secreted molecule or in a cell-intrinsic manner?

      We thank the reviewer for these insightful comments, which helped us clarify the novelty of our findings.

      (1) Novelty of CHI3L1-Glucose Binding:

      While chitin-binding domains are known to interact with carbohydrate polymers, our key discovery is that CHI3L1 (YKL-40)—a mammalian chitinase-like protein lacking enzymatic activity—specifically binds to glucose, a simple monosaccharide. This differs fundamentally from canonical binding to insoluble polysaccharides such as chitin and reveals a potential role for CHI3L1 in monosaccharide recognition, linking it to glucose metabolism and energy sensing. We clarified this point in the revised manuscript (page 9, line374-379).

      (2) Serum CHI3L1 in Knockout Models:

      Consistent with the reviewer’s suggestion, serum Chi3l1 levels are altered in our knockout models:

      KC-specific KO (Clec4f<sup>ΔChil1</sup>): Under normal chow, serum CHI3L1 is markedly reduced compared to controls and remains lower following HFHC feeding (Author response image 2A, below), indicating that Kupffer cells are the main source of circulating CHI3L1 under basal and disease conditions.

      Macrophage KO (Lyz2<sup>ΔChil1</sup>): No significant changes were observed between Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> and Lyz2<sup>ΔChil1</sup> mice under either diet (Author response image 2B, below), likely due to minimal monocyte-derived macrophage recruitment in this HFHC model (see Revised Figure 4C,D).

      (3) Secreted vs. Cell-Intrinsic Role:

      CHI3L1 predominantly localizes to the KC plasma membrane, consistent with a secreted role, and its serum reduction in KC-specific knockouts supports the physiological relevance of its secreted role. While cell-intrinsic effects have been reported elsewhere, our current data do not address this in KCs and warrant future investigation.

      Author response image 2.

      Chi3l1 expression in serum before and after HFHC in CKO mice. (A) Western blot to detect Chi3l1 expression in serum of Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> and Clec4f<sup>ΔChil1</sup> mice before and after 16 weeks’ HFHC diet. n=3 mice/group. (B) Western blot to detect Chi3l1 expression in serum of Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> and Lyz2ΔChil1 before and after 16 weeks’ HFHC diet. n=3 mice/group.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The manuscript from Shan et al., sets out to investigate the role of Chi3l1 in different hepatic macrophage subsets (KCs and moMFs) in MASLD following their identification that KCs highly express this gene. To this end, they utilise Chi3l1KO, Clec4f-CrexChi3l1fl, and Lyz2-CrexChi3l1fl mice and WT controls fed a HFHC for different periods of time.

      Major:

      Firstly, the authors perform scRNA-seq, which led to the identification of Chi3l1 (encoded by Chil1) in macrophages. However, this is on a limited number of cells (especially in the HFHC context), and hence it would also be important to validate this finding in other publicly available MASLD/Fibrosis scRNA-seq datasets. Similarly, it would be important to examine if cells other than monocytes/macrophages also express this gene, given the use of the full KO in the manuscript. Along these lines, utilisation of publicly available human MASLD scRNA-seq datasets would also be important to understand where the increased expression observed in patients comes from and the overall relevance of macrophages in this finding.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion and acknowledge the limited number of cells analyzed under the HFHC condition in our original dataset. To strengthen our findings, we have now examined four additional publicly available scRNA-seq datasets— two from mouse models and two from human MASLD patients (Revised Figure S3, manuscript page 4, line 164-172). Across these datasets, the specific cell type showing the highest Chil1 expression varied somewhat between studies, likely reflecting model differences and disease stages. Nevertheless, Chil1 expression was consistently enriched in hepatic macrophage populations, including both Kupffer cells and infiltrating macrophages, in mouse and human livers. Notably, Chil1 expression was higher in infiltrating macrophages compared to resident Kupffer cells, supporting its upregulation during MASLD progression. These additional analyses confirm the robustness and crossspecies relevance of our finding that macrophages are the primary Chil1-expressing cell type in the liver.

      Next, the authors use two different Cre lines (Clec4f-Cre and Lyz2-Cre) to target KCs and moMFs respectively. However, no evidence is provided to demonstrate that Chil1 is only deleted from the respective cells in the two CRE lines. Thus, KCs and moMFs should be sorted from both lines, and a qPCR performed to check the deletion of Chil1. This is especially important for the Lyz2-Cre, which has been routinely used in the literature to target KCs (as well as moMFs) and has (at least partial) penetrance in KCs (depending on the gene to be floxed). Also, while the Clec4f-Cre mice show an exacerbated MASLD phenotype, there is currently no baseline phenotype of these animals (or the Lyz2Cre) in steady state in relation to the same readouts provided in MASLD and the macrophage compartment. This is critical to understand if the phenotype is MASLD-specific or if loss of Chi3l1 already affects the macrophages under homeostatic conditions.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point.

      (1) Chil1 deletion efficiency in Clec4f-Cre and Lyz2-Cre lines:

      We have assessed the efficiency of Chil1 deletion in both Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> and Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice by evaluating mRNA and protein levels of Chi3l1. For the Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice, we measured Chi3l1 expression in bone marrow-derived macrophages (BMDMs) and primary Kupffer cells (KCs). Both qPCR (for mRNA) and Western blotting (for protein) reveal that Chi3l1 is almost undetectable in BMDMs from Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice when compared to Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> controls. In contrast, we observe no significant reduction in Chi3l1 expression in KCs from these animals (Revised Figure S7B, C), suggesting Chil1 is deleted in BMDMs but not in KCs in Lyz2-Cre line.

      For the Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice, both mRNA and protein levels of Chi3l1 are barely detectable in BMDMs and primary KCs when compared to Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> controls (Revised Figure S4B, C). However, we did observe a faint Chi3l1 band in KCs of Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice, which we suspect is due to contamination from LSECs during the KC isolation process, given that the TIM4 staining for KCs was approximately 90%. Overall, Chil1 is deleted in both KCs and BMDMs in Clec4f-Cre line.

      Notably, since we observed a pronounced MASLD phenotype in Clec4f-Cre mice but not in Lyz2-Cre mice, these findings further underscore the critical role of Kupffer cells in the progression of MASLD.

      (2) Whether the phenotype is MASLD-specific or whether loss of Chi3l1 already affects the macrophages under homeostatic conditions: We now included phenotypic data of Clec4f<sup>ΔChil1</sup> mice (KC-specific KO) and Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice (MoMFs-specific KO) fed with NCD 16w (Revised Figure 2A-F, S8A-F). Shortly speaking, there is no baseline difference between Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> and Clec4f<sup>ΔChil1</sup> or Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice in steady state in relation to the same readouts provided in MASLD.

      Next, the authors suggest that loss of Chi3l1 promotes KC death. However, to examine this, they use Chi3l1 full KO mice instead of the Clec4f-Cre line. The reason for this is not clear, because in this regard, it is now not clear whether the effects are regulated by loss of Chi3l1 from KCs or from other hepatic cells (see point above). The authors mention that Chi3l1 is a secreted protein, so does this mean other cells are also secreting it, and are these needed for KC death? In that case, this would not explain the phenotype in the CLEC4F-Cre mice. Here, the authors do perform a basic immunophenotyping of the macrophage populations; however, the markers used are outdated, making it difficult to interpret the findings. Instead of F4/80 and CD11b, which do not allow a perfect discrimination of KCs and moMFs, especially in HFHC diet-fed mice, more robust and specific markers of KCs should be used, including CLEC4F, VSIG4, and TIM4.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We performed experiments in Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> (KC-specific KO) model. The phenotype in these mice closely mirrors that of the full KO: we observed a significant reduction in KC numbers and a concurrent increase in KC cell death following an HFHC diet in Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice post HFHC diet compared to Clec4f-cre mice. We have reported these data in the following related manuscript (Figure 6 D-G). This confirms that the loss of CHI3L1 specifically from KCs is sufficient to drive this effect.

      Hyperactivated Glycolysis Drives Spatially-Patterned Kupffer Cell Depletion in MASLD Jia He, Ran Li, Cheng Xie, Xiane Zhu, Keqin Wang, Zhao Shan bioRxiv 2025.09.26.678483; doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2025.09.26.678483

      While other hepatic cells (e.g., neutrophils and liver sinusoidal endothelial cells) also express Chi3l1, our data indicate that KC-secreted Chi3l1 plays a dominant and cellautonomous role in maintaining KCs viability. The potential contribution of other cellular sources to this phenotype remains an interesting direction for future study.

      We apologize for the lack of clarity in our initial immunophenotyping. We have revised the flow cytometry data to clearly show that KCs are rigorously defined as TIM4+ cells (Revised Figure 4C, D).

      Additionally, while the authors report a reduction of KCs in terms of absolute numbers, there are no differences in proportions. Thus, coupled with a decrease also in moMF numbers at 16 weeks (when one would expect an increase if KCs are decreased, based on previous literature) suggests that the differences in KC numbers may be due to differences in total cell counts obtained from the obese livers compared with controls. To rule this out, total cell counts and total live CD45+ cell counts should be provided. Here, the authors also provide tunnel staining in situ to demonstrate increased KC death, but as it is typically notoriously difficult to visualise dying KCs in MASLD models, here it would be important to provide more images. Similarly, there appear to be many more Tunel+ cells in the KO that are not KCs; thus, it would be important to examine this in the CLEC4F-Cre line to ascertain direct versus indirect effects on cell survival.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. We have now included the total cell counts and total live CD45<sup>+</sup> cell counts, which showed similar numbers between WT and Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice post HFHC diet (Figure 3A, below).

      Moreover, we included cleavaged caspase 3 and TIM4 co-staining in WT and Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice before and after HFHC diets, which confirmed increased KCs death in Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice (Revised Figure S10B). We have compared KCs number and KCs death between Clec4fcre and Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice under NCD and HFHC diet in the following manuscript (Figure 6 D-G). The data showed similar KCs number under NCD and reduced KCs number in Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice compared to Clec4f-cre mice, which confirms direct effects of Chi3l1 on cell survival but not because of cre insertion.

      Hyperactivated Glycolysis Drives Spatially-Patterned Kupffer Cell Depletion in MASLD Jia He, Ran Li, Cheng Xie, Xiane Zhu, Keqin Wang, Zhao Shan bioRxiv 2025.09.26.678483; doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2025.09.26.678483

      Author response image 3.

      Number of total cells and total live CD45+ cells in liver of WT and Chil1<sup>-/-</sup> mice. (A) Number of total cells and total live CD45+ cells/liver were statistically analyzed. n= 3-4 mice per group.

      Finally, the authors suggest that Chi3l1 exerts its effects through binding glucose and preventing its uptake. They use ex vivo/in vitro models to assess this with rChi3l1; however, here I miss the key in vivo experiment using the CLEC4F-Cre mice to prove that this in KCs is sufficient for the phenotype. This is critical to confirm the take-home message of the manuscript.

      We agree that it is essential to confirm the in vivo relevance of Chi3l1-mediated glucose regulation in Kupffer cells (KCs). Our data suggest that KCs undergo cell death not because they express Chi3l1 per se, but because they exhibit a glucose-hungry metabolic phenotype that makes them uniquely dependent on Chi3l1-mediated regulation of glucose uptake. To directly assess this mechanism in vivo, we injected 2-NBDG, a fluorescent glucose analog, into overnight-fasted and refed mice and quantified its uptake in hepatic KCs. Notably, Chi3l1-deficient KCs exhibited significantly increased 2-NBDG uptake compared with controls, and this effect was markedly suppressed by co-treatment with recombinant Chi3l1 (rChi3l1) (Revised Figure 6G, H). These findings demonstrate that Chi3l1 regulates glucose uptake by KCs in vivo, supporting our proposed mechanism that Chi3l1 controls KC metabolic homeostasis through modulation of glucose availability.

      Minor points:

      (1) Some key references of macrophage heterogeneity in MASLD are not cited: PMID: 32362324 and PMID: 32888418.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting these critical references and have included them in the introduction (Revised manuscript, page 2, line 64-73).

      (2) In the discussion, Figure 3H is referenced (Serum data), but there is no Figure 3H. If the authors have this data (increased Chi3l1 in serum of mice fed HFHC diet), what happens in CLEC4F-Cre mice fed the diet? Is this lost completely? This comes back to the point regarding the specificity of expression.

      We apologize for the mistake. It should be Figure 5F now in the revised version, in which serum Chi3l1 was significantly upregulated after HFHC diet. Moreover, under a normal chow diet (NCD), serum CHI3L1 is significantly lower in Clec4f<sup>ΔChil1</sup> mice compared to controls (Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup>). Following an HFHC diet, levels increase in both genotypes but remain relatively lower in the KC-KO mice (please see Figure 2A above). This data strongly suggests that Kupffer Cells (KCs) are the primary source of serum CHI3L1 under basal conditions and a major contributor during MASLD progression.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This paper investigates the role of Chi3l1 in regulating the fate of liver macrophages in the context of metabolic dysfunction leading to the development of MASLD. I do see value in this work, but some issues exist that should be addressed as well as possible.

      (1) Chi3l1 has been linked to macrophage functions in MASLD/MASH, acute liver injury, and fibrosis models before (e.g., PMID: 37166517), which limits the novelty of the current work. It has even been linked to macrophage cell death/survival (PMID: 31250532) in the context of fibrosis, which is a main observation from the current study.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment regarding the novelty of our findings. We agree that Chi3l1 has previously been linked to macrophage survival and function in models of liver injury and fibrosis (e.g., PMID: 37166517, 31250532). However, our study focuses specifically on the early stage of MASLD, prior to the onset of fibrosis, revealing a distinct mechanistic role for CHI3L1 in this context.

      We demonstrate that CHI3L1 directly interacts with extracellular glucose to regulate its cellular uptake—a previously unrecognized biochemical function. Furthermore, we show that CHI3L1’s protective role is metabolically dependent, safeguarding glucose-dependent Kupffer cells (KCs) but not monocyte-derived macrophages (MoMFs). This metabolic dichotomy and the direct link between CHI3L1 and glucose sensing represent conceptual advances beyond previous studies of CHI3L1 in fibrotic or injury models.

      (2) The LysCre-experiments differ from experiments conducted by Ariel Feldstein's team (PMID: 37166517). What is the explanation for this difference? - The LysCre system is neither specific to macrophages (it also depletes in neutrophils, etc), nor is this system necessarily efficient in all myeloid cells (e.g., Kupffer cells vs other macrophages). The authors need to show the efficacy and specificity of the conditional KO regarding Chi3l1 in the different myeloid populations in the liver and the circulation.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment and the opportunity to clarify both the efficiency and specificity of our conditional knockouts, as well as the differences from the study by Feldstein’s group (PMID: 37166517).

      (1) Chil1 deletion efficiency in Clec4f-Cre and Lyz2-Cre lines:

      We have assessed the efficiency of Chil1 deletion in both Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> and Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice by evaluating mRNA and protein levels of Chi3l1. For the Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice, we measured Chi3l1 expression in bone marrow-derived macrophages (BMDMs) and primary Kupffer cells (KCs). Both qPCR (for mRNA) and Western blotting (for protein) reveal that Chi3l1 is almost undetectable in BMDMs from Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice when compared to Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> controls. In contrast, we observe no significant reduction in Chi3l1 expression in KCs from these animals (Revised Figure S7B, C), suggesting that Chil1 is deleted in BMDMs but not in KCs in Lyz2-Cre line.

      For the Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice, both mRNA and protein levels of Chi3l1 are barely detectable in BMDMs and primary KCs when compared to Chil1<sup>fl/fl</sup> controls (Revised Figure S4B, C). However, we did observe a faint Chi3l1 band in KCs of Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice, which we suspect is due to contamination from LSECs during the KC isolation process, given that the TIM4 staining for KCs was approximately 90%. Overall, Chil1 is deleted in both KCs and BMDMs in Clec4f-Cre line.

      Notably, since we observed a pronounced MASLD phenotype in Clec4f-Cre mice but not in Lyz2-Cre mice, these findings further underscore the critical role of Kupffer cells in the progression of MASLD.

      (2) Explanation for Differences from Feldstein et al. (PMID: 37166517):

      Our findings differ from those reported by Feldstein’s group primarily due to differences in disease stage and model. We used a high-fat, high-cholesterol (HFHC) diet to model earlystage MASLD characterized by steatosis and inflammation without fibrosis (Revised Figure S1A,B). In this context, we observed KC death but minimal MoMF infiltration (Revised Figure 4D). Accordingly, deletion of Chi3l1 in MoMFs (Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup>) had no measurable effect on insulin resistance or steatosis, consistent with limited MoMF involvement at this stage. In contrast, the Feldstein study employed a CDAA-HFAT diet that models later-stage MASH with fibrosis. In that setting, Lyz2<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice showed reduced recruitment of neutrophils and MoMFs, which likely underlies the attenuation of fibrosis and disease severity reported. Together, these data support a model in which KCs and MoMFs play temporally distinct roles during MASLD progression: KCs primarily drive early lipid accumulation and metabolic dysfunction, whereas MoMFs contribute more substantially to inflammation and fibrosis at later stages.

      (3) The conclusions are exclusively based on one MASLD model. I recommend confirming the key findings in a second, ideally a more fibrotic, MASH model.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion to validate our findings in an additional MASH model. We have now included data from a methionine- and choline-deficient (MCD) diet–induced MASH model, which exhibits pronounced hepatic lipid accumulation and fibrosis (Revised Figure S6A,B). Consistent with our HFHC results, Clec4f<sup>∆Chil1</sup> mice displayed exacerbated MASH progression in this model, including increased lipid deposition, inflammation, and fibrosis (Revised Figure S6E-G).These findings confirm that CHI3L1 deficiency in Kupffer cells promotes hepatic lipid accumulation and disease progression across distinct MASLD/MASH models.

      (4) Very few human data are being provided (e.g., no work with own human liver samples, work with primary human cells). Thus, the translational relevance of the observations remains unclear.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment regarding translational relevance. We fully agree that validation in human liver samples would further strengthen our study. However, obtaining tissue from early-stage steatotic livers is challenging due to the asymptomatic nature of this disease stage. Nonetheless, multiple studies have consistently reported Chi3l1 upregulation in human fibrotic and steatotic liver disease (PMID: 31250532, 40352927, 35360517), supporting the clinical significance of our mechanistic findings. We have now expanded the Discussion to highlight these human data and better contextualize our results within the spectrum of human MASLD/MASH progression (Revised manuscript, page 9, line390-394).

      Minor points:

      The authors need to follow the new nomenclature (e.g., MASLD instead of MAFLD, e.g., in Figure 1).

      "MASLD" used throughout.

      We thank the reviewers for their rigorous critique again. We thank eLife for fostering an environment of fairness and transparency that enables authors to communicate openly and present their data honestly.

      Reference

      (1) Tran, S. Baba I, Poupel L, et al(2020) Impaired Kupffer Cell Self-Renewal Alters the Liver Response to Lipid Overload during Non-alcoholic Steatohepatitis. Immunity 53, 627-640.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We are grateful for the insightful and constructive feedback received from reviewers. As outlined in our previous response to the public reviews of the manuscript, we have made only minor changes to the manuscript to clarify some points noted by Reviewers 1 and 3. Firstly, we identify the DUB shown in the correlation plot (Fig 3B) - whose knockdown enhances PROTAC sensitivity without significantly altering cell cycle progression - as BAP1. Secondly, we explain in more detail how we selected DUB hits for further study, and thirdly, we acknowledge that the result in Figure 5G is unexpected given prevailing knowledge in the field.

      Please see below the detailed list of changes we have made to the manuscript.

      In response to Reviewer 1 (Point 2 of public review and Point 2 in recommendations to author)

      We have labelled one of the hits (as BAP1) in Figure 3B

      In response to Reviewer 1 (Point 2 of public review and Point 2 in recommendations to author) and Reviewer 3 (Point 6 in recommendations to authors)

      We have rewritten our description of Figure 3 in order to make clarifications about how we selected which hits to take forwards in our study

      In response to Reviewer 3 (Point 1 in the recommendation to authors)

      We corrected a typo in the first subtitle of the results section

      In response to Reviewer 3 (Point 2 in the recommendation to authors)

      We added information requested about how we selected our top hits

      In response to Reviewer 1 (Point 4 in public review and Point 4 in recommendation to authors)

      We pointed out the seemingly contradictory nature of the UCHL5 result in Figure 5G for the reader

      All of the changes have been aimed at clarifying our narrative, without any change to data content, analysis or interpretation, and we hope these improvements can be agreed by editorial review.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Wang, Po-Kai, et al., utilized the de novo polarization of MDCK cells cultured in Matrigel to assess the interdependence between polarity protein localization, centrosome positioning, and apical membrane formation. They show that the inhibition of Plk4 with Centrinone does not prevent apical membrane formation, but does result in its delay, a phenotype the authors attribute to the loss of centrosomes due to the inhibition of centriole duplication. However, the targeted mutagenesis of specific centrosome proteins implicated in the positioning of centrosomes in other cell types (CEP164, ODF2, PCNT, and CEP120) did not affect centrosome positioning in 3D cultured MDCK cells. A screen of proteins previously implicated in MDCK polarization revealed that the polarity protein Par-3 was upstream of centrosome positioning, similar to other cell types.

      Strengths:

      The investigation into the temporal requirement and interdependence of previously proposed regulators of cell polarization and lumen formation is valuable to the community. Wang et al., have provided a detailed analysis of many of these components at defined stages of polarity establishment. Furthermore, the generation of PCNT, p53, ODF2, Cep120, and Cep164 knockout MDCK cell lines is likely valuable to the community.

      Weaknesses:

      Additional quantifications would highly improve this manuscript, for example it is unclear whether the centrosome perturbation affects gamma tubulin levels and therefore microtubule nucleation, it is also not clear how they affect the localization of the trafficking machinery/polarity proteins. For example, in Figure 4, the authors measure the intensity of Gp134 at the apical membrane initiation site following cytokinesis, but there is no measure of Gp134 at the centrosome prior to this.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. Previous studies have shown that genes encoding appendage proteins and CEP120 do not regulate γ-tubulin recruitment to centrosomes (Betleja, Nanjundappa, Cheng, & Mahjoub, 2018; Vasquez-Limeta & Loncarek, 2021). Although the loss of PCNT reduces γ-tubulin levels, this reduction is partially compensated by AKAP450. Even in the case of PCNT/AKAP450 double knockouts, low levels of γ-tubulin remain at the centrosome (Gavilan et al., 2018), suggesting that it is difficult to completely eliminate γ-tubulin by perturbing centrosomal genes alone.

      To directly address this question, in the revised manuscript (Page 8, Paragraph 4; Figure 4—figure supplement 3), we employed a recently reported method to block γ-tubulin recruitment by co-expressing two constructs: the centrosome-targeting carboxy-terminal domain (C-CTD) of CDK5RAP2 and the γ-tubulin-binding domain of NEDD1 (N-gTBD). This approach effectively depleted γ-tubulin and abolished microtubule nucleation at the centrosome (Vinopal et al., 2023). Interestingly, despite the reduced efficiency of apical vesicle trafficking, these cells were still able to establish polarity, with centrioles positioned apically. These results suggest that microtubule nucleation at the centrosomes (centrosomal microtubules) facilitates—but is not essential for—polarity establishment.

      Regarding Figure 4, we assume the reviewer was referring to Gp135 rather than Gp134. In the revised manuscript (Page 8, Paragraph 2; Figure 4I), we observed a slight decrease in Gp135 intensity near PCNT-KO centrosomes at the pre-Abs stage. However, its localization at the AMIS following cytokinesis remained unaffected. These results suggest that the loss of PCNT has a limited impact on Gp135 localization. 

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors decoupled several players that are thought to contribute to the establishment of epithelial polarity and determined their causal relationship. This provides a new picture of the respective roles of junctional proteins (Par3), the centrosome, and endomembrane compartments (Cdc42, Rab11, Gp135) from upstream to downstream.

      Their conclusions are based on live imaging of all players during the early steps of polarity establishment and on the knock-down of their expression in the simplest ever model of epithelial polarity: a cell doublet surrounded by ECM.

      The position of the centrosome is often taken as a readout for the orientation of the cell polarity axis. There is a long-standing debate about the actual role of the centrosome in the establishment of this polarity axis. Here, using a minimal model of epithelial polarization, a doublet of daugthers MDCK cultured in Matrigel, the authors made several key observations that bring new light to our understanding of a mechanism that has been studied for many years without being fully explained:

      (1) They showed that centriole can reach their polarized position without most of their microtubule-anchoring structures. These observations challenge the standard model according to which centrosomes are moved by the production and transmission of forces along microtubules.

      (2) However) they showed that epithelial polarity can be established in the absence of a centriole.

      (3) (Somehow more expectedly) they also showed that epithelial polarity can't be established in the absence of Par3.

      (4) They found that most other polarity players that are transported through the cytoplasm in lipid vesicles, and finally fused to the basal or apical pole of epithelial cells, are moved along an axis which is defined by the position of centrosome and orientation of microtubules.

      (5) Surprisingly, two non-daughter cells that were brought in contact (for 6h) could partially polarize by recruiting a few Par3 molecules but not the other polarity markers.

      (6) Even more surprisingly, in the absence of ECM, Par 3 and centrosomes could move to their proper position close to the intercellular junction after cytokinesis but other polarity markers (at least GP135) localized to the opposite, non-adhesive, side. So the polarity of the centrosome-microtubule network could be dissociated from the localisation of GP135 (which was believed to be transported along this network).

      Strengths:

      (1) The simplicity and reproducibility of the system allow a very quantitative description of cell polarity and protein localisation.

      (2) The experiments are quite straightforward, well-executed, and properly analyzed.

      (3) The writing is clear and conclusions are convincing.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The simplicity of the system may not capture some of the mechanisms involved in the establishment of cell polarity in more physiological conditions (fluid flow, electrical potential, ion gradients,...).

      We agree that certain mechanisms may not be captured by this simplified system. However, the model enables us to observe intrinsic cellular responses, minimize external environmental variables, and gain new insights into how epithelial cells position their centrosomes and establish polarity. 

      (2) The absence of centriole in centrinone-treated cells might not prevent the coalescence of centrosomal protein in a kind of MTOC which might still orient microtubules and intracellular traffic. How are microtubules organized in the absence of centriole? If they still form a radial array, the absence of a centriole at the center of it somehow does not conflict with classical views in the field.

      Previous studies have shown that in the absence of centrioles, centrosomal proteins can relocate to alternative microtubule-organizing centers (MTOCs), such as the Golgi apparatus (Gavilan et al., 2018). Furthermore, centriole loss leads to increased nucleation of non-centrosomal microtubules (Martin, Veloso, Wu, Katrukha, & Akhmanova, 2018). However, these microtubules typically do not form the classical radial array or a distinct star-like organization. 

      While this non-centrosomal microtubule network can still support polarity establishment, it does so less efficiently—similar to what is observed in p53-deficient cells undergoing centriole-independent mitosis (Meitinger et al., 2016). Thus, although the absence of centrioles does not completely prevent microtubule-based organization or polarity establishment, it impairs their spatial coordination and reduces overall efficiency compared to a centriole-centered microtubule-organizing center (MTOC). 

      (3) The mechanism is still far from clear and this study shines some light on our lack of understanding. Basic and key questions remain:

      (a) How is the centrosome moved toward the Par3-rich pole? This is particularly difficult to answer if the mechanism does not imply the anchoring of MTs to the centriole or PCM.

      Previous studies have shown that Par3 interacts with dynein, potentially anchoring it at the cell cortex (Schmoranzer et al., 2009). This interaction enables dynein, a minus-enddirected motor, to exert pulling forces on microtubules, thereby promoting centrosome movement toward the Par3-enriched pole.

      In our experiments (Figure 4), we attempted to disrupt centrosomal microtubule nucleation by knocking out multiple genes involved in centrosome structure and function, including ODF2 and PCNT. Under these perturbations, γ-tubulin still remained detectable at the centrosome, and we were unable to completely eliminate centrosomal microtubules. 

      To address this question more directly, we employed a strategy to deplete γ-tubulin from centrosomes by co-expressing the centrosome-targeting C-terminal domain (C-CTD) of CDK5RAP2 and the γ-tubulin-binding domain of NEDD1 (N-gTBD). As shown in the new data of the revised manuscript (Page 8, Paragraph 4; Figure 4—figure supplement 3), this approach effectively depleted γ-tubulin from centrosomes, thereby abolishing microtubule nucleation at the centrosome. 

      Surprisingly, even under these conditions, centrioles remained apically positioned (Page 8, Paragraph 4; Figure 4—figure supplement 3), indicating that centrosomal microtubules are not essential for centrosome movement during polarization.

      Given these findings, we agree that the precise mechanism by which the Par3-enriched cortex attracts or guides centrosome movement remains unclear. Although dynein–Par3 interactions may contribute, further studies are needed to elucidate how centrosome repositioning occurs in the absence of microtubule-based pulling forces from the centrosome itself.

      (b) What happens during cytokinesis that organises Par3 and intercellular junction in a way that can't be achieved by simply bringing two cells together? In larger epithelia cells have neighbours that are not daughters, still, they can form tight junctions with Par3 which participates in the establishment of cell polarity as much as those that are closer to the cytokinetic bridge (as judged by the overall cell symmetry). Is the protocol of cell aggregation fully capturing the interaction mechanism of non-daughter cells?

      We speculate that a key difference between cytokinesis and simple cell-cell contact lies in the presence or absence of actomyosin contractility during the process of cell division. Specifically, contraction of the cytokinetic ring generates mechanical forces between the two daughter cells, which are absent when two non-daughter cells are simply brought together. While adjacent epithelial cells can indeed form tight junctions and recruit Par3, the lack of shared cortical tension and contractile actin networks between non-daughter cells may lead to differences in how polarity is initiated. This mechanical input during cytokinesis may serve as an organizing signal for centrosome positioning. This idea is supported by recent work showing that the actin cytoskeleton can influence centrosome positioning (Jimenez et al., 2021), suggesting that contractile actin structures formed during cytokinesis may contribute to spatial organization in a manner that cannot be replicated by simple aggregation. 

      In our experiments, we simply captured two cells that were in contact within Matrigel. We cannot say for sure that it captures all the interaction mechanisms of non-daughter cells, but it does provide a contrast to daughter cells produced by cytokinesis. 

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Here, Wang et al. aim to clarify the role of the centrosome and conserved polarity regulators in apical membrane formation during the polarization of MDCK cells cultured in 3D. Through well-presented and rigorous studies, the authors focused on the emergence of polarity as a single MDCK cell divided in 3D culture to form a two-cell cyst with a nascent lumen. Focusing on these very initial stages, rather than in later large cyst formation as in most studies, is a real strength of this study. The authors found that conserved polarity regulators Gp135/podocalyxin, Crb3, Cdc42, and the recycling endosome component Rab11a all localize to the centrosome before localizing to the apical membrane initiation site (AMIS) following cytokinesis. This protein relocalization was concomitant with a repositioning of centrosomes towards the AMIS. In contrast, Par3, aPKC, and the junctional components E-cadherin and ZO1 localize directly to the AMIS without first localizing to the centrosome. Based on the timing of the localization of these proteins, these observational studies suggested that Par3 is upstream of centrosome repositioning towards the AMIS and that the centrosome might be required for delivery of apical/luminal proteins to the AMIS.

      To test this hypothesis, the authors generated numerous new cell lines and/or employed pharmacological inhibitors to determine the hierarchy of localization among these components. They found that removal of the centrosome via centrinone treatment severely delayed and weakened the delivery of Gp135 to the AMIS and single lumen formation, although normal lumenogenesis was apparently rescued with time. This effect was not due to the presence of CEP164, ODF2, CEP120, or Pericentrin. Par3 depletion perturbed the repositioning of the centrosome towards the AMIS and the relocalization of the Gp135 and Rab11 to the AMIS, causing these proteins to get stuck at the centrosome. Finally, the authors culture the MDCK cells in several ways (forced aggregation and ECM depleted) to try and further uncouple localization of the pertinent components, finding that Par3 can localize to the cell-cell interface in the absence of cell division. Par3 localized to the edge of the cell-cell contacts in the absence of ECM and this localization was not sufficient to orient the centrosomes to this site, indicating the importance of other factors in centrosome recruitment.

      Together, these data suggest a model where Par3 positions the centrosome at the AMIS and is required for the efficient transfer of more downstream polarity determinants (Gp135 and Rab11) to the apical membrane from the centrosome. The authors present solid and compelling data and are well-positioned to directly test this model with their existing system and tools. In particular, one obvious mechanism here is that centrosome-based microtubules help to efficiently direct the transport of molecules required to reinforce polarity and/or promote lumenogenesis. This model is not really explored by the authors except by Pericentrin and subdistal appendage depletion and the authors do not test whether these perturbations affect centrosomal microtubules. Exploring the role of microtubules in this process could considerably add to the mechanisms presented here. In its current state, this paper is a careful observation of the events of MCDK polarization and will fill a knowledge gap in this field. However, the mechanism could be significantly bolstered with existing tools, thereby elevating our understanding of how polarity emerges in this system.

      We agree that further exploration of microtubule dynamics could strengthen the mechanistic framework of our study. In our initial experiments, we disrupted centrosome function through genetic perturbations (e.g., knockout of PCNT, CEP120, CEP164, and ODF2). However, consistent with previous reports (Gavilan et al., 2018; Tateishi et al., 2013), we found that single-gene deletions did not completely eliminate centrosomal microtubules. Furthermore, imaging microtubule organization in 3D culture presents technical challenges. Due to the increased density of microtubules during cell rounding, we were unable to obtain clear microtubule filament structures—either using α-tubulin staining in fixed cells or SiR-tubulin labeling in live cells. Instead, the signal appeared diffusely distributed throughout the cytosol.

      To overcome this, we employed a recently reported approach by co-expressing the centrosome-targeting carboxy-terminal domain (C-CTD) of CDK5RAP2 and the γtubulin-binding domain (gTBD) of NEDD1 to completely deplete γ-tubulin and abolish centrosomal microtubule nucleation (Vinopal et al., 2023). In our new data presented in the revised manuscript (Page 8, Paragraph 4; Figure 4—figure supplement 3), we found that cells lacking centrosomal microtubules were still able to polarize and position the centrioles apically. However, the efficiency of polarized transport of Gp135 vesicles to the apical membrane was reduced. These findings suggest that centrosomal microtubules are not essential for polarity establishment but may contribute to efficient apical transport. 

      Reference

      Betleja, E., Nanjundappa, R., Cheng, T., & Mahjoub, M. R. (2018). A novel Cep120-dependent mechanism inhibits centriole maturation in quiescent cells. Elife, 7. doi:10.7554/eLife.35439

      Gavilan, M. P., Gandolfo, P., Balestra, F. R., Arias, F., Bornens, M., & Rios, R. M. (2018). The dual role of the centrosome in organizing the microtubule network in interphase. EMBO Rep, 19(11). doi:10.15252/embr.201845942

      Jimenez, A. J., Schaeffer, A., De Pascalis, C., Letort, G., Vianay, B., Bornens, M., . . . Thery, M. (2021). Acto-myosin network geometry defines centrosome position. Curr Biol, 31(6), 1206-1220 e1205. doi:10.1016/j.cub.2021.01.002

      Martin, M., Veloso, A., Wu, J., Katrukha, E. A., & Akhmanova, A. (2018). Control of endothelial cell polarity and sprouting angiogenesis by non-centrosomal microtubules. Elife, 7. doi:10.7554/eLife.33864

      Meitinger, F., Anzola, J. V., Kaulich, M., Richardson, A., Stender, J. D., Benner, C., . . . Oegema, K. (2016). 53BP1 and USP28 mediate p53 activation and G1 arrest after centrosome loss or extended mitotic duration. J Cell Biol, 214(2), 155-166. doi:10.1083/jcb.201604081

      Schmoranzer, J., Fawcett, J. P., Segura, M., Tan, S., Vallee, R. B., Pawson, T., & Gundersen, G. G. (2009). Par3 and dynein associate to regulate local microtubule dynamics and centrosome orientation during migration. Curr Biol, 19(13), 1065-1074. doi:10.1016/j.cub.2009.05.065

      Tateishi, K., Yamazaki, Y., Nishida, T., Watanabe, S., Kunimoto, K., Ishikawa, H., & Tsukita, S. (2013). Two appendages homologous between basal bodies and centrioles are formed using distinct Odf2 domains. J Cell Biol, 203(3), 417-425. doi:10.1083/jcb.201303071

      Vasquez-Limeta, A., & Loncarek, J. (2021). Human centrosome organization and function in interphase and mitosis. Semin Cell Dev Biol, 117, 30-41. doi:10.1016/j.semcdb.2021.03.020

      Vinopal, S., Dupraz, S., Alfadil, E., Pietralla, T., Bendre, S., Stiess, M., . . . Bradke, F. (2023). Centrosomal microtubule nucleation regulates radial migration of projection neurons independently of polarization in the developing brain. Neuron, 111(8), 1241-1263 e1216. doi:10.1016/j.neuron.2023.01.020.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Figures:

      (1) Figure 3 B+C - Although in comparison to Figure 2 it appears the p53 mutation does not affect θN-C, or Lo-c. the figure would benefit from direct comparison to control cells.

      We appreciate your suggestion to improve the clarity of the figure. In response, we have revised Figure 3B+C to include control cell data, allowing for clearer side-by-side comparisons in the updated figures. 

      (2) Figure 3D - Clarify if both were normalized to time point 0:00 of the p53 KO. The image used appears that Gp135 intensity increases substantially between 0:00 and 0:15 in the figure, but the graph suggests that the intensity is the same if not slightly lower.

      Figure 3D – The data were normalized to the respective 0:00 time point for each condition. Because the intensity profile was measured along a line connecting the two nuclei, Gp135 signal could only be detected if it appeared along this line. However, the images shown are maximum-intensity projections, meaning that Gp135 signals from peripheral regions are projected onto the center of the image. This may create the appearance of increased intensity at certain time points (e.g., Figure 3A, p53-KO + CN, 0:00–0:15). 

      (3) Figure 4A: The diagram does not accurately represent the effect of the mutations, for example, PCNT mutation likely doesn't completely disrupt PCM (given gamma-tubulin is still visible in the staining), but instead results in its disorganization, Cep164 also wouldn't be expected to completely ablate distal appendages.

      Thank you for your comment. We have modified the figure in the revised manuscript (Figure 4A) to more clearly depict the defective DAs. 

      (4) Figure 4 + Supplements: A more in-depth characterization of the mutations would help address the previous comment and strengthen the manuscript. Especially as these components have previously been implicated in centrosome transport.

      Thank you for your valuable suggestion. As noted in previous studies, CEP164 is essential for distal appendage function and basal body docking, with its loss resulting in blocked ciliogenesis (Tanos et al., 2013); CEP120 is required for centriole elongation and distal appendage formation, and its loss also results in blocked ciliogenesis (Comartin et al., 2013; Lin et al., 2013; Tsai, Hsu, Liu, Chang, & Tang, 2019); ODF2 functions upstream in the formation of subdistal appendages, and its loss eliminates these structures and impairs microtubule anchoring (Tateishi et al., 2013); and PCNT functions as a PCM scaffold, necessary for the recruitment of PCM components and for microtubule nucleation at the centrosome (Fong, Choi, Rattner, & Qi, 2008; Zimmerman, Sillibourne, Rosa, & Doxsey, 2004). 

      Given that the phenotypes of these mutants have been well characterized in the literature. Here, we further focus on their roles in centrosome migration and polarized vesicle trafficking within the specific context of our study. 

      (5) Figure 4: It would be interesting to measure the Gp135 intensity at the centrosomes, given that the model proposes it is trafficked from the centrosomes to the AMIS.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have included measurements of Gp135 intensity at the centrosomes during the Pre-Abs stage in the revised figure (Figure 4I). Our data show no significant differences in Gp135 intensity between wild-type (WT) and CEP164-, ODF2-, or CEP120-knockout (KO) cell lines. However, a slight decrease in Gp135 intensity was observed in PCNT-KO cells. 

      (6) Figure 6F shows that in suspension culture polarity is reversed, however, in Figure 6G gp135 still localizes to the cytokinetic furrow prior to polarity reversal. Given this paper demonstrates Par-3 is upstream of centrosome positioning, it would be important to have temporal data of how Par-3 localizes prior to the ring observed in 6F.

      Thank you for your comment. We have included a temporal analysis of Par3 localization using fixed-cell staining in the revised figure (Figure 6—figure supplement 1D). This analysis shows that Par3 also localizes to the cytokinesis site during the Pre-Abs stage, prior to ring formation observed during the Post-CK stage (Figure 6F). Interestingly, during the Pre-Abs stage, the centrosomes also migrate toward the center of the cell doublets in suspension culture, and Gp135 surrounding the centrosomes is also recruited to a region near the center (Figure 6—figure supplement 1E). These data suggest that Par3 also is initially recruited to the cytokinesis site before polarity reversal, potentially promoting centrosome migration. The main difference from Matrigel culture is the peripheral localization of Par3 and Gp135 in suspension, which is likely due to the lack of external ECM signaling. 

      Results:

      (1) Page 7 Paragraph 1 - consistently use AMIS (Apical membrane initiation site) rather than "the apical site".

      Thank you for your helpful comment. We have revised the manuscript (Page 7, Paragraph 1) and will now use "AMIS" (Apical Membrane Initiation Site) instead of "the apical site" throughout the text. 

      (2) Page 7 Paragraph 4 - A single sentence explaining why the p53 background had to be used for the Cep120 deletion would be beneficial. Did the cell line have a reduced centrosome number? Does this effect apical membrane initiation similar to centrinone?

      We have revised the text (Page 7, Paragraph 4) to clarify that we were unable to generate a CEP120 KO line in p53-WT cells for unknown reasons. CEP120-KO cells have a normal number of centrosome, but their centrioles are shorter. Because this KO line still contains centrioles, the effect is different from centrinone treatment, which results in a complete loss of centrioles. 

      (3) Page 10 paragraph 4 - This paragraph is confusing to read. I understand that in the cysts and epithelial sheet the cytokinetic furrow is apical, therefore a movement towards the AMIS could be due to its coincidence with the furrow. However, the phrasing "....we found that centrosomes move towards the apical membrane initiation site direction before bridge abscission. Taken together these findings indicate the position is strongly associated with the site of cytokinesis but not with the apical membrane" is confusing to the reader.

      We have revised the manuscript (Page 11, paragraph 4) to change the AMIS as the center of the cell doublet. During de novo epithelial polarization, the apical membrane has not yet formed at the Pre-Abs stage. However, at the Pre-Abs stage, the centrosome has already migrated toward the site of cytokinesis, suggesting that centrosome positioning is correlated with the site of cell division. A similar phenomenon occurs in fully polarized epithelial cysts and sheets, where the centrosomes also migrate before bridge abscission. Thus, we propose that the position of the centrosome is closely associated with the site of cytokinesis and is independent of apical membrane formation. 

      Discussion

      (1) Page 11, Paragraph 2 - citations needed when discussing previous studies.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have included the necessary references to the discussion of the previous studies in the revised manuscript (Page 12, Paragraph 2). 

      (2) Page 12, Paragraph 2 - This section of the discussion would be strengthened by discussing the role of the actomyosin network in defining centrosome position (Jimenez et al., 2021). It seems plausible that the differences observed in the different conditions could be due to altered actomyosin architecture. Especially where the cells haven't undergone cytokinesis.

      We appreciate the suggestion of a role for the actomyosin network in determining centrosome positioning. Recent studies have indeed highlighted the role of the actomyosin network in regulating centrosome centering and off-centering (Jimenez et al., 2021). During the pre-abscission stage of cell division, the actomyosin network undergoes significant dynamic changes, with the contractile ring forming at the center and actin levels decreasing at the cell periphery. In contrast, under aggregated cell conditions—meaning cells that have not undergone division—the actomyosin network does not exhibit such dynamic changes. The loss of actomyosin remodeling may therefore influence whether the centrosome moves. Thus, alterations in actomyosin architecture may contribute to the differences observed under various conditions, particularly when cells have not yet completed cytokinesis. We have revised Paragraph 2 on Page 13 to briefly mention the referenced study and to propose that the actomyosin network may influence centrosome positioning, contributing to our observed results. This addition strengthens the discussion and clarifies our findings. 

      (3) Page 12 paragraph 3 - Given that centrosome translocation during cytokinesis in MDCK cells (this study) appears to be similar to that observed in HeLa cells and the zebrafish Kupffers vesicle (Krishnan et al., 2022) it would be interesting to discuss why Rab11a and PCNT may not be essential to centrosome positioning in MDCK cells.

      Thank you for your insightful comment. We agree that it is interesting that centrosome translocation during cytokinesis in MDCK cells (as observed in our study) is similar to that observed in HeLa cells and zebrafish Kupffer's vesicle (Krishnan et al., 2022). However, there are notable differences between these systems that may help explain why Rab11a and PCNT are not essential for centrosome positioning in MDCK cells.

      Our study used 3D culture of MDCK cells, while the reference study examined adherent culture of HeLa cells. In the adherent culture, cells attached to the culture surface form large actin stress fibers on their basal side, which weakens the actin networks in the apical and intercellular regions. In contrast, the 3D culture system used in our study better preserves cell polarity and the integrity of the actin network, which might contribute to centrosome positioning independent of Rab11a and PCNT. Differences in culture conditions and actin network architecture may explain why Rab11a and PCNT are not required for centrosome positioning in MDCK cells.

      Furthermore, the referenced study focused on Rab11a and PCNT in zebrafish embryos at 3.3–5 hours post-fertilization (hpf), a time point before the formation of the Kupffer’s vesicle. At this stage, the cells they examined may not yet have become epithelial cells, which may also influence the requirement of Rab11a and PCNT for centrosome positioning. We hypothesize that during the pre-abscission stage, centrosome migration toward the cytokinetic bridge occurs primarily in epithelial cells, and that the polarity and centrosome positioning mechanisms in these cells may differ from those in other cell types, such as zebrafish embryos.

      Furthermore, data from Krishnan et al. (2022) suggest that cytokinesis failure in pcnt+/- heterozygous embryos and Rab11a functional-blocked embryos may be due to the presence of supernumerary centrosomes. Consistent with this, our data show that blocking cytokinesis inhibits centrosome movement in MDCK cells. However, in our MDCK cell lines with PCNT or Rab11a knockdown, we did not observe significant cytokinesis failure, and centrosome migration proceeded normally. 

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Suggestions for experiments:

      (1) A description of the organization of microtubules in the absence of centriole, or in the absence of ECM would be interesting to understand how polarity markers end up where you observed them. This easy experiment may significantly improve our understanding of this system.

      Previous studies have shown that in the absence of centrioles, microtubule organization undergoes significant changes. Specifically, the number of non-centrosomal microtubules increases, and these microtubules are not radially arranged, leading to the absence of focused microtubule organizing centers in centriolar-deficient cells (Martin, Veloso, Wu, Katrukha, & Akhmanova, 2018). This disorganized microtubule network reduces the efficiency of vesicle transport during de novo epithelial polarization at the mitotic preabscission stage. 

      In contrast, the organization of microtubules under ECM-free conditions remains less well characterized. Here, we show that while the ECM plays a critical role in establishing the direction of epithelial polarity, it does not influence the positioning of the centrosome, the microtubule-organizing center (MTOC).  

      (2) Would it be possible to knock down ODF2 and pericentrin to completely disconnect the centrosome from microtubules?

      ODF2 is the base of subdistal appendages. When ODF2 is knocked out, it affects the recruitment of all downstream proteins to the subdistal appendages (Mazo, Soplop, Wang, Uryu, & Tsou, 2016). One study has shown that ODF2 knockout cells almost completely lost subdistal appendage structures and significantly reduced the microtubule asters surrounding the centrioles (Tateishi et al., 2013). However, although pericentrin (PCNT) is the main scaffold of the pericentriolar matrix (PCM) of centrosomes, the microtubule organization ability of centrosomes can be compensated by AKAP450, a paralog of PCNT, after PCNT knockout. A previous study has even shown that in cells with a double knockout of PCNT and AKAP450, γ-tubulin can still be recruited to the centrosomes, and centrosomes can still nucleate microtubules (Gavilan et al., 2018). This suggests that there are other proteins or pathways that promote microtubule nucleation on centrosomes. We are unsure whether the triple knockout of ODF2, PCNT, and AKAP450 can completely disconnect the centrosome from microtubules. However, a recent study reported a simpler approach involving the expression of dominant-negative fragments of the γ-tubulinbinding protein NEDD1 and the activator CDK5RAP2 at the centrosome (Vinopal et al., 2023). In our revised manuscript (Page 8, Paragraph 4; Figure 4—figure supplement 3), we applied this strategy, which resulted in the depletion of nearly all γ-tubulin from the centrosome. This indicates a strong suppression of centrosomal microtubule nucleation and an effective disconnection of the centrosome from the microtubule network. 

      (3) The study does not distinguish the role of cytokinesis from the role of tight junctions, which form only after cytokinesis and not simply by bringing cells into contact. Would it be feasible and interesting to study the polarization after cytokinesis in cells that could not form tight junctions (due to the absence of Ecad or ZO1 for example)?

      Studying cell polarization after cytokinesis in cells unable to form tight junctions is a promising area of research.

      Recent studies have shown that mouse embryonic stem cells (mESCs) cultured in Matrigel can form ZO-1-labelled tight junctions at the midpoint of cell–cell contact even in the absence of cell division. However, in the absence of E-cadherin, ZO-1 localization is significantly impaired. Interestingly, despite the loss of E-cadherin, the Golgi apparatus and centrosomes remain oriented toward the cell–cell interface (Liang, Weberling, Hii, Zernicka-Goetz, & Buckley, 2022). These findings suggest that cell polarity can be maintained independently of tight junction formation, highlighting the potential value of studying cell polarization that lack tight junctions.

      Furthermore, while studies have explored the effects of knocking down tight junction components such as JAM-A and Cingulin on lumen formation in MDCK 3D cultures (Mangan et al., 2016; Tuncay et al., 2015), the role of ZO-1 in this context remains underexplored. Cingulin knockdown has been shown to disrupt endosome targeting and the formation of the AMIS, while both JAM-A and Cingulin knockdown result in actin accumulation at multiple points, leading to the formation of multi-lumen structures rather than a reversal of polarity. However, previous research has not specifically investigated centrosome positioning in JAM-A and Cingulin knockdown cells, an area that could provide valuable insights into how polarity is maintained in the absence of tight junctions. 

      Writing details:

      (1) The migration of the centrosome in the absence of appendages or PCM is proposed to be ensured by compensatory mechanisms ensuring the robustness of microtubule anchoring to the centrosome. It could also be envisaged that the centrosome motion does not require this anchoring and that other yet unknown moving mechanisms, based on an actin network for example, might exist.

      Thank you for your valuable comments. We agree that there may indeed be some unexpected mechanisms that allow centrosomes to move independently of microtubule anchoring to the centrosome, such as mechanisms based on actin filaments or noncentrosomal microtubules; these mechanisms are worth further investigation.

      In response to your suggestion, in the Paragraph 5 of the discussion section, we further clarified that while a microtubule anchoring mechanism might be one explanation, other mechanisms could also influence centrosome movement in the absence of appendages or PCM. Additionally, we revised the Paragraph 4 regarding the possibility of actin network-driven centrosome movement and emphasized the importance of future research for a deeper understanding of these processes. 

      (2) The actual conclusion of the study of Martin et al (eLife 2018) is not simply that centrosome is not involved in cell polarization but that it hinders cell polarization!

      Thank you for your valuable feedback. We agree with the findings of Martin et al. (eLife 2018) that centrosome is not irrelevant to cell polarity, but rather they inhibit cell polarization. Therefore, we have revised the manuscript (Page 2, Paragraph 2) to more accurately reflect this viewpoint. 

      (3) This study recalls some conclusions of the study by Burute et al (Dev Cell 2017), in particular the role of Par3 in driving centrosome toward the intercellular junction of daughter cells after cytokinesis. It would be welcome to comment on the results of this study in light of their work.

      Thank you for your valuable feedback. The study by Burute et al. (Dev Cell, 2017) showed that in micropattern-cultures of MCF10A cells, the cells exhibit polarity and localize their centrosomes towards the intercellular junction, while downregulation of Par3 gene expression disrupts this centrosome positioning. This result is similar to our findings in 3D cultured MDCK cells and consistent with previous studies in C. elegans intestinal cells and migrating NIH 3T3 cells (Feldman & Priess, 2012; Schmoranzer et al., 2009), indicating that Par3 indeed influences centrosome positioning in different cellular systems. However, Par3 does not directly localize to the centrosome; rather, it localizes to the cell cortex or cell-cell junctions. Therefore, Par3 likely regulates centrosome positioning through other intermediary molecules or mechanisms, but the specific mechanism remains unclear and requires further investigation. 

      (4) Could the term apico-basal be used in the absence of a basement membrane to form a basal pole?

      We understand that using the term "apico-basal" in the absence of a basement membrane might raise some questions. Traditionally, the apico-basal axis refers to the polarity of epithelial cells, where the apical surface faces the lumen or external environment, and the basal surface is oriented toward the basement membrane. However, in the absence of a basement membrane, such as in certain in vitro systems or under specific experimental conditions, polarity along a similar axis can still be observed. In such cases, the term "apico-basal" can still be used to describe the polarity between the apical domain and the region where it contacts the substrate or adjacent cells. 

      (5) The absence of centrosome movement to the intercellular bridge in spread cells in culture is not so surprising considering the work of Lafaurie-Janvore et al (Science 2018) about the role of cell spreading in the regulation of bridge tension and abscission delay.

      Thank you for your valuable comment. Indeed, previous studies have shown that in some cell types, the centrosome does move toward the intercellular bridge in spread cells (Krishnan et al., 2022; Piel, Nordberg, Euteneuer, & Bornens, 2001), but other studies have suggested that this movement may not be significant and it may not occur in universally observed across all cell types (Jonsdottir et al., 2010). In our study, we aim to demonstrate that this phenomenon is more pronounced in 3D culture systems compared to 2D spread cell culture systems. Previous studies and our work have observed that centrosome migration occurs during the pre-abscission stage, but whether this migration is directly related to cytokinetic bridge tension or the time of abscission remains an open question. Further research is needed to explore the potential relationship between centrosome positioning, cytokintic bridge tension, and the timing of abscission. 

      (6) GP135 (podocalyxin) has been proposed to have anti-adhesive/lubricant properties (hence its pro-invasive effect). Could it be possible that once localized at the cell surface it is systematically moved away from regions that are anchored to either the ECM or adjacent cells? So its localization away from the centrosome in an ECM-free experiment would not be a consequence of defective targeting but relocalization after reaching the plasma membrane?

      Thank you for your valuable comment. We agree that GP135 may indeed move directly across the cell surface, away from the region where it interacts with the ECM or adjacent cells. This re-localization could be due to its anti-adhesive or lubricating properties, which may facilitate its displacement from these adhesive sites. To validate this, it is necessary to employ higher-resolution real-time imaging system to observe the dynamic behavior of GP135 on the cell surface.

      However, this does not contradict our main conclusion. Under suspension culture conditions without ECM, the centrosome positioning in cell doublets is indeed decoupled from apical membrane orientation. This suggests that the localization of the centrosome and the apical membrane is regulated by different mechanisms. Specifically, the GP135 protein tends to accumulate away from areas of contact with the ECM or adjacent cells, possibly through movement within the cell membrane or by recycling endosome transport. In contrast, centrosome positioning is closely related to the cytokinesis site. Our study clearly elucidates the differences between these two polarity properties. 

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major:

      (1) To me, a clear implication of these studies is that Gp135, Rab11, etc. are delivered to the AMIS on centrosomal microtubules. The authors do not explore this model except to say that depletion of SD appendage or pericentrin has no effect on the protein relocalization to the AMIS. However, the authors do not observe microtubule association with the centrosome in these KO conditions. This analysis is imperative to interpret existing results since these are new KO conditions in this cell/culture system and parallel pathways (e.g. CDK5RAP2) are known to contribute to microtubule association with the centrosome. An ability to comment on the mechanism by which the centrosome contributes to the efficiency of polarization would greatly enhance the paper.

      Microtubule requirement could also be tested in numerous additional ways requiring varying degrees of new experiments:

      (a) faster live cell imaging at abscission to see if the deposition of those components appears to traffic on MTs;

      (b) live cell imaging with microtubules (e.g. SPY-tubulin) and/or EB1 to determine the origin and polarity of microtubules at the pertinent stages;

      For (a) and (b), because the cells were cultured in Matrigel, they tended to be round up, with a dense internal structure that made observation difficult. In contrast, under adherent culture conditions, the cells were flattened with a more dispersed internal structures, making them easier to observe. We had previously used SPY-tubulin to label microtubules for live cell imaging; however, due to the dense microtubule structure in 3D culture, the image contrast was reduced, and we could not clearly observe the microtubule network within the cells. 

      (c) acute nocodazole treatment at abscission to determine the effect on protein localization.

      Regarding the method of using nocodazole to study microtubule requirements at the abscission stage, we believe that nocodazole treatment may lead to cytokinesis failure. Cell division failure results in the formation of binucleated cells, which are unable to establish cell polarity. Furthermore, nocodazole treatment cannot distinguish between centrosomal and non-centrosomal microtubules, making it unsuitable for studying the specific role of centrosomal microtubules in this process.

      In our new data (Figure 4-figure supplementary 3) presented in the revised manuscript, we employed a recently reported method by co-expressing of the centrosome-targeting carboxy-terminal domain (C-CTD) of CDK5RAP2 and the γ-tubulin-binding domain (gTBD) of NEDD1 to completely deplete γ-tubulin and abolish centrosomal microtubule nucleation (Vinopal et al., 2023). We found that cells lacking centrosomal microtubules were still able to polarize and position the centrioles apically. However, the efficiency of polarized transport of Gp135 vesicles to the apical membrane was reduced. These findings suggest that centrosomal microtubules are not essential for polarity establishment but may contribute to facilitate efficient apical transport. 

      (2) Similar to the expanded analysis of the role of microtubules in this system, it would be excellent if the author could expand on the role of Par3 and the centrosome, although this reviewer recognizes that the authors have already done substantial work. For example, what are the consequences of Gp135 and/or Rab11 getting stuck at the centrosome? Do the authors have any later images to determine when and if these components ever leave the centrosome? Existing literature focuses on the more downstream consequence of Par3 removal on single-lumen formation. 

      Similarly, could the authors expand on the description of polarity disruption following centrinone treatment? It is clear that Gp135 recruitment is disrupted, but how and when do things get fixed and what else is disrupted at the very earliest stages of AMIS formation? The authors have an excellent opportunity to really expand on what is known about the requirements for these conserved components.

      Regarding the use of centrinone in treatment, we speculate that Gp135 can still accumulate at the AMIS over time, although the efficiency of its recruitment may be reduced.

      Furthermore, under similar conditions, other apical membrane components (such as the Crumbs3 protein) may exhibit similar characteristics to Gp135 protein. 

      (3) Perhaps satisfying both of the above asks, could the authors do a faster time-lapse at the relevant time points, i.e. as proteins are being recruited to the AMIS (time points between 1Aiv and v)? This type of imaging again might help shed light on the mechanism.

      We believe the above questions are very important and may require further experimental verification in the future. 

      Minor:

      (1) What is the green patch of Gp135 in Figure 2A that does not colocalize with the centrosome? Is this another source of Gp135 that is being delivered to the AMIS? This type of patch is also visible in Figure 3A 15 and 30-minute panels.

      During mitosis, membrane-composed organelles such as the Golgi apparatus are typically dispersed throughout the cytoplasm. However, during the pre-abscission stage, these organelles begin to reassemble and cluster around the centrosome. Furthermore, they also accumulate in the region between the nucleus and the cytokinetic bridge, corresponding to the “patch” mentioned in Figure 2A. 

      Live cell imaging results showed that this Gp135 patch initially appears in a region not associated with the centrosome. Subsequently, they were either directly transported to the AMIS or fused with the centrosome-associated Gp135 and transported together. Notably, this patch was only observed when Gp135 was overexpressed in cells. No such distinct protein patches were observed when staining endogenous Gp135 protein (Figure 1A), suggesting that overexpression of Gp135 protein may lead to a localized increase in its concentration in that region. 

      (2) I am confused by the "polarity index" quantification as this appears to just be a nucleus centrosome distance measurement and wouldn't, for example, distinguish if the centrosomes separated from the nucleus but were on the basal side of the cell.

      The position of the centrosome within the cell (i.e., its distance from the nucleus) can indeed serve as an indicator of cell polarity (Burute et al., 2017). We acknowledge that this quantitative method does not directly capture the specific direction in which the centrosome deviates from the cell center. To address this limitation, we have incorporated information about the angle between the nucleus and the centrosome, which allows for a more accurate description of changes in cell polarity (Rodriguez-Fraticelli, Auzan, Alonso, Bornens, & Martin-Belmonte, 2012). 

      (3) How is GP135 "at AMIS" measured? Is an arbitrary line drawn? This is important later when comparing to centrinone treatment in Figure 3D where the quantification does not seem to accurately capture the enrichment of Gp135 that is seen in the images.

      To measure the expression level of Gp135 in the "AMIS" region of the cell, we first connected the centers of the two cell nuclei in three-dimensional space to form a straight line. Then, we used the Gp135 expression intensity at the midpoint of this line as the representative value for the AMIS region. This method is based on the assumption that the AMIS region is most likely located between the centers of the two cell nuclei. Therefore, this quantitative method provides a standardized assessment tool for comparing Gp135 expression levels under different conditions. 

      (4) The authors reference cell height (p.7) but no data for this measurement are shown

      Thank you for the comment. Although we did not perform quantitative measurements, the differences in cell height are clearly visible in Figure 3E (p53-KO + CN), which visually illustrates this phenomenon. 

      (5) Can the authors comment on the seeming reduction of Par3 in p53 KO cells?

      We did not observe a reduction of Par3 in p53-KO cells in our experiments.

      (6) Can the authors make sense of the E-cad localization: Figure 5, Supplement 2.

      Our study revealed that E-cadherin begins to accumulate at the cell-cell contact sites during the pre-abscission stage. Its appearance is similar to that of ZO-1, which also appears near the cell division site during this phase. Therefore, the behavior of E-cadherin contrasts sharply with that of Gp135, further highlighting the unique trafficking mechanisms of apical membrane proteins during this process. 

      (7) I find the results in Figure 6G puzzling. Why is ECM signaling required for Gp135 recruitment to the centrosome. Could the authors discuss what this means?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s valuable comments and thank you for the opportunity to clarify this point. The data in Figure 6G do not indicate that ECM signaling is required for the recruitment of Gp135 to the centrosome. Rather, our findings suggest that even in the absence of ECM, the centrosomes can migrate to a polarized position similar to that in Matrigel culture. This suggests that centrosome migration and the orientation of the nucleus–centrosome axis may be independent of ECM signaling and are primarily driven by cytokinesis alone. 

      Regarding the localization of Gp135, previous studies have shown that ECM signaling through integrin promotes endocytosis, which is crucial for the internalization of Gp135 from the cell membrane and its subsequent transport to the AMIS (Buckley & St Johnston, 2022). Our study found that, prior to its accumulation at the AMIS, Gp135 transiently localizes around the centrosome. In the absence of ECM, due to reduced endocytosis, Gp135 primarily remains on the cell membrane and does not undergo intracellular trafficking.  

      (8) The authors end the Discussion stating that these studies may have implication for in vivo settings, yet do not discuss the striking similarities to the C. elegans and Drosophila intestine or the findings from any other more observational studies of tubular epithelial systems in vivo (e.g. mouse kidney polarization, zebrafish neuroepithelium, etc.). These models should be discussed.

      Thank you for your valuable comment. Indeed, all types of epithelial tissues or tubular epithelial systems in vivo share some common features during cell division, which have been well-documented across various species. 

      These features include: during interphase, the centrosome is located at the apical surface of the cells; after the cell enters mitosis, the centrosome moves to the lateral side of the cell to regulate spindle orientation; and during cytokinesis, the cleavage furrow ingresses asymmetrically from the basal to the apical side, with the cytokinetic bridge positioned at the apical surface. Our study using MDCK 3D culture and transwell culture systems successfully mimicked these key features, demonstrating that these in vitro models are of significant value for studying cell polarization dynamics. 

      Based on our observations, we speculate that the centrosome may return to the apical surface after anaphase, just before bridge abscission. This is consistent with our findings from studies using MDCK 3D cultures and transwell systems, which showed that the centrosome relocates prior to the final stages of cytokinesis.

      Additionally, we propose that de novo polarization of the kidney tubule in vivo may not solely depend on the aggregation and mesenchymal-epithelial transition (MET) of the metanephric mesenchyme. It may also be related to the cell division process, which triggers centrosome migration and polarized vesicle trafficking. These processes likely contribute to enhancing cell polarization, as we observed in our in vitro models.

      We hope this will further clarity the potential implications of our findings for in vivo model studies, as well as and their broader impact on the field of tubular epithelial cell polarization research. 

      (9) There are several grammatical issues/typos throughout the paper. A careful readthrough is required. For example:

      this sentence makes no sense "that the centrosome acts as a hub of apical recycling endosomes and centrosome migration during cytokinetic pre-abscission before apical membrane components are targeted to the AMIS"

      We carefully reviewed the paper and made necessary revisions to address the issues raised. In particular, we revised certain sentences to improve clarity and readability (Page 5, Paragraph 3). 

      (10) P.8: have been previously reported [to be] involved in MDCK...

      We appreciate the reviewer's valuable suggestions. We have revised the sentence accordingly (Page 9, Paragraph 2). 

      (11) This sentence seems misplaced: "Cultured conditions influence cellular polarization preferences."

      The sentence itself is fine, but to improve the coherence and clarity of the paragraph, we adjusted the paragraph structure and added some transitional phrases (Page 13, Paragraph 1).  

      (12) "Play a downstream role in Par3 recruitment" doesn't make sense, this should just be downstream of Par3 recruitment.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have revised the wording accordingly, changing it to "downstream of Par3 recruitment" (Page 10, Paragraph 2).  

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      Zimmerman, W. C., Sillibourne, J., Rosa, J., & Doxsey, S. J. (2004). Mitosis-specific anchoring of gamma tubulin complexes by pericentrin controls spindle organization and mitotic entry. Mol Biol Cell, 15(8), 3642-3657. doi:10.1091/mbc.e03-11-0796.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The present manuscript of Xu et al. reports a novel clearing and imaging method focusing on the liver. The Authors simultaneously visualized the portal vein, hepatic artery, central vein, and bile duct systems by injected metal compound nanoparticles (MCNPs) with different colors into the portal vein, heart left ventricle, vena cava inferior and the extrahepatic bile duct, respectively. The method involves: trans-cardiac perfusion with 4% PFA, the injection of MCNPs with different colors, clearing with the modified CUBIC method, cutting 200 micrometer thick slices by vibratome, and then microscopic imaging. The Authors also perform various immunostaining (DAB or TSA signal amplification methods) on the tissue slices from MCNP-perfused tissue blocks. With the application of this methodical approach, the Authors report dense and very fine vascular branches along the portal vein. The authors name them as 'periportal lamellar complex (PLC)' and report that PLC fine branches are directly connected to the sinusoids. The authors also claim that these structures co-localize with terminal bile duct branches and sympathetic nerve fibers and contain endothelial cells with a distinct gene expression profile. Finally, the authors claim that PLC-s proliferate in liver fibrosis (CCl4 model) and act as scaffold for proliferating bile ducts in ductular reaction and for ectopic parenchymal sympathetic nerve sprouting.

      Strengths:

      The simultaneous visualization of different hepatic vascular compartments and their combination with immunostaining is a potentially interesting novel methodological approach.

      Weaknesses:

      This reviewer has some concerns about the validity of the microscopic/morphological findings as well as the transcriptomics results, and suggests that the conclusions of the paper may be critically viewed. Namely, at this point, it is still not fully clear that the 'periportal lamellar complex (PLC)' that the Authors describe really exists as a distinct anatomical or functional unit or these are fine portal branches that connect the larger portal veins into the adjacent sinusoid. Also, in my opinion, to identify the molecular characteristics of such small and spatially highly organized structures like those fine radial portal branches, the only way is to perform high-resolution spatial transcriptomics (instead of data mining in existing liver single cell database and performing Venn diagram intersection analysis in hepatic endothelial subpopulations). Yet, the existence of such structures with a distinct molecular profile cannot be excluded. Further research with advanced imaging and omics techniques (such as high resolution volume imaging, and spatial transcriptomics/proteomics) are needed to reproduce these initial findings.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Chengjian Zhao et al. focused on the interactions between vascular, biliary, and neural networks in the liver microenvironment, addressing the critical bottleneck that the lack of high-resolution 3D visualization has hindered understanding of these interactions in liver disease.

      Strengths:

      This study developed a high-resolution multiplex 3D imaging method that integrates multicolor metallic compound nanoparticle (MCNP) perfusion with optimized CUBIC tissue clearing. This method enables the simultaneous 3D visualization of spatial networks of the portal vein, hepatic artery, bile ducts, and central vein in the mouse liver. The authors reported a perivascular structure termed the Periportal Lamellar Complex (PLC), which is identified along the portal vein axis. This study clarifies that the PLC comprises CD34⁺Sca-1⁺ dual-positive endothelial cells with a distinct gene expression profile, and reveals its colocalization with terminal bile duct branches and sympathetic nerve fibers under physiological conditions.<br />

      Weaknesses:

      This manuscript is well-written, organized, and informative. However, there are some points that need to be clarified.

      (1) After MCNP-dye injection, does it remain in the blood vessels, adsorb onto the cell surface, or permeate into the cells? Does the MCNP-dye have cell selectivity?

      The experimental results showed that after injection, the MCNP series nanoparticles predominantly remained within the lumens of blood vessels and bile ducts, with their tissue distribution determined by physical perfusion. No diffusion of the dye signal into the surrounding parenchymal tissue was observed, nor was there any evidence of adsorption onto the cell surface or entry into cells. The newly added Supplementary Figure S2A–H further confirmed this feature, demonstrating that the dye signals were strictly confined to the luminal space, clearly delineating the continuous course of blood vessels and the branching morphology of bile ducts. These findings strongly support the conclusion that “MCNP dyes are distributed exclusively within the luminal compartments.”

      Therefore, the MCNP dyes primarily serve as intraluminal tracers within the tissue rather than as labels for specific cell types.

      (2) All MCNP-dyes were injected after the mice were sacrificed, and the mice's livers were fixed with PFA. After the blood flow had ceased, how did the authors ensure that the MCNP-dyes were fully and uniformly perfused into the microcirculation of the liver?

      Thank you for the reviewer’s valuable comments. Indeed, since all MCNP dyes were perfused after the mice were euthanized and blood circulation had ceased, we cannot fully ensure a homogeneous distribution of the dye within the hepatic microcirculation. The vascular labeling technique based on metallic nanoparticle dyes used in this study offers clear imaging, stable fluorescence intensity, and multiplexing advantages; however, it also has certain limitations. The main issue is that the dye distribution within the hepatic parenchyma can be affected by factors such as lobular overlap, local tissue compression, and variations in vascular pathways, resulting in regional inhomogeneity of dye perfusion. This is particularly evident in areas where multiple lobes converge or where anatomical structures are complex, leading to local dye accumulation or over-perfusion.

      In our experiments, we attempted to minimize local blockage or over-perfusion by performing PBS pre-flushing and low-pressure, constant-speed perfusion. Nevertheless, localized dye accumulation or uneven distribution may still occur in lobe junctions or structurally complex regions. Such variation represents one of the methodological limitations. Overall, the dye signals in most samples remained confined to the vascular and biliary lumens, and the distribution pattern was highly reproducible.

      We have addressed this issue in the Discussion section but would like to emphasize here that, although this system has clear advantages, it remains sensitive to anatomical variability in the liver—such as lobular overlap and vascular heterogeneity. At vascular junctions, local perfusion inhomogeneity or dye accumulation may occur; therefore, injection strategies and perfusion parameters should be adjusted according to liver size and vascular condition to improve reproducibility and imaging quality. It should also be noted that the results obtained using this method primarily aim to visualize the overall and fine anatomical structures of the hepatic vascular system rather than to quantitatively reflect hemodynamic processes. In the future, we plan to combine in vivo perfusion or dynamic fluid modeling to further validate the diffusion characteristics of the dyes within the hepatic microcirculation.

      (3) It is advisable to present additional 3D perspective views in the article, as the current images exhibit very weak 3D effects. Furthermore, it would be better to supplement with some videos to demonstrate the 3D effects of the stained blood vessels.

      Thank you for the reviewer’s valuable comments. In response to the suggestion, we have added perspective-rendered images generated from the 3D staining datasets to provide a more intuitive visualization of the spatial morphology of the hepatic vasculature. These images have been included in Figure S2A–J. In addition, we have prepared supplementary videos (available upon request) that dynamically display the three-dimensional distribution of the stained vessels, further enhancing the spatial perception and visualization of the results.

      (4) In Figure 1-I, the authors used MCNP-Black to stain the central veins; however, in addition to black, there are also yellow and red stains in the image. The authors need to explain what these stains are in the legend.

      Thank you for the reviewer’s constructive comment. In Figure 1I, MCNP-Black labels the central vein (black), MCNP-Yellow labels the portal vein (yellow), MCNP-Pink labels the hepatic artery (pink), and MCNP-Green labels the bile duct (green). We have revised the Figure 1 legend to include detailed descriptions of the color signals and their corresponding structures to avoid any potential confusion.

      (5) There is a typo in the title of Figure 4F; it should be "stem cell".

      Thank you for the reviewer’s careful correction. We have corrected the spelling error in the title of Figure 4F to “stem cell” and updated it in the revised manuscript.

      (6) Nuclear staining is necessary in immunofluorescence staining, especially for Figure 5e. This will help readers distinguish whether the green color in the image corresponds to cells or dye deposits.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestion. We understand that nuclear staining can help determine the origin of fluorescence signals. However, in our three-dimensional imaging system, the deep signal acquisition range after tissue clearing often causes nuclear dyes such as DAPI to generate highly dense and widespread fluorescence, especially in regions rich in vascular structures, which can obscure the fine vascular and perivascular details of interest. Therefore, this study primarily focuses on high-resolution visualization of the spatial architecture of the vascular and biliary systems. We have added an explanation regarding this point in Figures S2I–J.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The present manuscript of Xu et al. reports a novel clearing and imaging method focusing on the liver. The authors simultaneously visualized the portal vein, hepatic artery, central vein, and bile duct systems by injecting metal compound nanoparticles (MCNPs) with different colors into the portal vein, heart left ventricle, inferior vena cava, and the extrahepatic bile duct, respectively. The method involves: trans-cardiac perfusion with 4% PFA, the injection of MCNPs with different colors, clearing with the modified CUBIC method, cutting 200 micrometer thick slices by vibratome, and then microscopic imaging. The authors also perform various immunostaining (DAB or TSA signal amplification methods) on the tissue slices from MCNP-perfused tissue blocks. With the application of this methodical approach, the authors report dense and very fine vascular branches along the portal vein. The authors name them as 'periportal lamellar complex (PLC)' and report that PLC fine branches are directly connected to the sinusoids. The authors also claim that these structures co-localize with terminal bile duct branches and sympathetic nerve fibers, and contain endothelial cells with a distinct gene expression profile. Finally, the authors claim that PLC-s proliferate in liver fibrosis (CCl4 model) and act as a scaffold for proliferating bile ducts in ductular reaction and for ectopic parenchymal sympathetic nerve sprouting.

      Strengths:

      The simultaneous visualization of different hepatic vascular compartments and their combination with immunostaining is a potentially interesting novel methodological approach.

      Weaknesses:

      This reviewer has several concerns about the validity of the microscopic/morphological findings as well as the transcriptomics results. In this reviewer's opinion, the introduction contains overstatements regarding the potential of the method, there are severe caveats in the method descriptions, and several parts of the Results are not fully supported by the documentation. Thus, the conclusions of the paper may be critically viewed in their present form and may need reconsideration by the authors.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the thorough evaluation and constructive comments on our study. We fully understand and appreciate the reviewer’s concerns regarding the methodological validity and interpretation of the results. In response, we have made comprehensive revisions and additions to the manuscript as follows:

      First, we have carefully revised the Introduction and Discussion sections to provide a more balanced description of the methodological potential, removing statements that might be considered overstated, and clarifying the applicable scope and limitations of our approach (see the revised Introduction and Discussion).

      Second, we have substantially expanded the Methods section with detailed information on model construction, imaging parameters, data processing workflow, and technical aspects of the single-cell transcriptomic reanalysis, to enhance the transparency and reproducibility of the study.

      Third, we have added additional references and explanatory notes in the Results section to better support the main conclusions (see Section 6 of the Results).

      Finally, we have rechecked and validated all experimental data, and conducted a verification analysis using an independent single-cell RNA-seq dataset (Figure S6). The results confirm that the morphological observations and transcriptomic findings are consistent and reproducible across independent experiments.

      We believe these revisions have greatly strengthened the reliability of our conclusions and the overall scientific rigor of the manuscript. Once again, we sincerely appreciate the reviewer’s valuable comments, which have been very helpful in improving the logic and clarity of our work.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the reviewed manuscript, researchers aimed to overcome the obstacles of high-resolution imaging of intact liver tissue. They report successful modification of the existing CUBIC protocol into Liver-CUBIC, a high-resolution multiplex 3D imaging method that integrates multicolor metallic compound nanoparticle (MCNP) perfusion with optimized liver tissue clearing, significantly reducing clearing time and enabling simultaneous 3D visualization of the portal vein, hepatic artery, bile ducts, and central vein spatial networks in the mouse liver. Using this novel platform, the researchers describe a previously unrecognized perivascular structure they termed Periportal Lamellar Complex (PLC), regularly distributed along the portal vein axis. The PLC originates from the portal vein and is characterized by a unique population of CD34⁺Sca-1⁺ dual-positive endothelial cells. Using available scRNAseq data, the authors assessed the CD34⁺Sca-1⁺ cells' expression profile, highlighting the mRNA presence of genes linked to neurodevelopment, biliary function, and hematopoietic niche potential. Different aspects of this analysis were then addressed by protein staining of selected marker proteins in the mouse liver tissue. Next, the authors addressed how the PLC and biliary system react to CCL4-induced liver fibrosis, implying PLC dynamically extends, acting as a scaffold that guides the migration and expansion of terminal bile ducts and sympathetic nerve fibers into the hepatic parenchyma upon injury.

      The work clearly demonstrates the usefulness of the Liver-CUBIC technique and the improvement of both resolution and complexity of the information, gained by simultaneous visualization of multiple vascular and biliary systems of the liver at the same time. The identification of PLC and the interpretation of its function represent an intriguing set of observations that will surely attract the attention of liver biologists as well as hepatologists; however, some claims need more thorough assessment by functional experimental approaches to decipher the functional molecules and the sequence of events before establishing the PLC as the key hub governing the activity of biliary, arterial, and neuronal liver systems. Similarly, the level of detail of the methods section does not appear to be sufficient to exactly recapitulate the performed experiments, which is of concern, given that the new technique is a cornerstone of the manuscript.

      Nevertheless, the work does bring a clear new insight into the liver structure and functional units and greatly improves the methodological toolbox to study it even further, and thus fully deserves the attention of readers.

      Strengths:

      The authors clearly demonstrate an improved technique tailored to the visualization of the liver vasulo-biliary architecture in unprecedented resolution.

      This work proposes a new biological framework between the portal vein, hepatic arteries, biliary tree, and intrahepatic innervation, centered at previously underappreciated protrusions of the portal veins - the Periportal Lamellar Complexes (PLCs).

      Weaknesses:

      Possible overinterpretation of the CD34+Sca1+ findings was built on re-analysis of one scRNAseq dataset.

      Lack of detail in the materials and methods section greatly limits the usefulness of the new technique to other researchers.

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment. We agree that when conclusions are mainly based on a single dataset, overinterpretation should be avoided. In response to this concern, we have carefully re-evaluated and clearly limited the scope of our interpretation of the scRNA-seq analysis. In addition, we performed a validation analysis using an independent single-cell RNA-seq dataset (see new Figure S6), which consistently confirmed the presence and characteristic transcriptional profile of the periportal CD34⁺Sca1⁺ endothelial cell population. These supplementary analyses strengthen the robustness of our findings and address the reviewer’s concern regarding potential overinterpretation.

      In the revised manuscript, we have also greatly expanded the Materials and Methods section by providing detailed information on sample preparation, imaging parameters, data processing workflow, and single-cell reanalysis procedures. These revisions substantially improve the transparency and reproducibility of our methodology, thereby enhancing the usability and reference value of this technique for other researchers.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Introduction

      (1) In general, the Introduction is very lengthy and repetitive. It needs extensive shortening to a maximum of 2 A4 pages.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestions. We have thoroughly condensed and restructured the Introduction, removing redundant content and merging related paragraphs to make the theme more focused and the logic clearer. The revised Introduction has been shortened to within two A4 pages, emphasizing the scientific question, innovation, and technical approach of the study.

      (2) Please correct this erroneous sentence:

      '...the liver has evolved the most complex and densely n organized vascular network in the body, consisting primarily of the portal vein system, central vein system, hepatic artery system, biliary system, and intrahepatic autonomic nerve network [6, 7].'

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this spelling error. The revised sentence is as follows:

      “…the liver has evolved the most complex and densely organized ductal-vascular network in the body, consisting primarily of the portal vein system, central vein system, hepatic artery system, biliary system, and intrahepatic autonomic nerve network [6, 7].”

      (3) '...we achieved a 63.89% improvement in clearing efficiency and a 20.12% increase in tissue transparency'

      Please clarify what you exactly mean by 'clearing efficiency' and 'increased tissue transparency'.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable comments and have clarified the relevant terminology in the revised manuscript.

      “Clearing efficiency” refers to the improvement in the time required for the liver tissue to become completely transparent when treated with the optimized Liver-CUBIC protocol (40% urea + H₂O₂), compared with the conventional CUBIC method. In this study, the clearing time was reduced from 9 days to 3.25 days, representing a 63.89% increase in time efficiency.

      “Tissue transparency” refers to the ability of the cleared tissue to transmit visible light. We quantified the optical transparency by measuring light transmittance across the 400–900 nm wavelength range using a microplate reader. The results showed that the average transmittance increased by 20.12%, indicating that Liver-CUBIC treatment markedly enhanced the optical clarity of the liver tissue.

      (4) I am concerned about claiming this imaging method as real '3D imaging'. Namely, while the authors clear full lobes, they actually cut the cleared lobes into 200-micrometer-thick slices and perform further microscopy imaging on these slices. Considering that they focus on ductular structures of the liver (such as vasculature, bile duct system, and innervations), 200 micrometer allows a very limited 3D overview, particularly in comparison with the whole-mount immuno-imaging methods combined with light sheet microscopy (such as Adori 2021, Liu 2021, etc). In this context, I feel several parts of the Introduction to be an overstatement: besides of emphasizing the advantages of the technique (such as simultaneous visualization of different hepatic vascular compartments and the bile duct system by MCNPs, the combination with immunostainings), the authors must honestly discuss the limitations (such as limited tissue overview, potential dye perfusion problems - uneven distribution of the dye etc).

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comments. It is true that most of the imaging depth in this study was limited to approximately 200 μm, and thus it could not achieve whole-liver three-dimensional imaging comparable to light-sheet microscopy. However, the primary focus of our study was to resolve the microscopic intrahepatic architecture, particularly the spatial relationships among blood vessels, bile ducts, and nerve fibers. Through high-resolution imaging of thick tissue sections, combined with MCNP-based multichannel labeling and immunofluorescence co-staining, we were able to accurately delineate the three-dimensional distribution of these microstructures within localized regions.

      In addition to thick-section imaging, we also obtained whole-lobe dye perfusion data (as shown in Figure S1F), which comprehensively depict the three-dimensional branching patterns and distribution of the vascular systems within the liver lobe. These images were acquired from intact liver lobes perfused with MCNP dyes, revealing a continuous vascular network extending from major trunks to peripheral branches, thereby demonstrating that our approach is also capable of achieving organ-level visualization.

      We have added this image and a corresponding description in the revised manuscript to more comprehensively present the coverage of our imaging system, and we have incorporated this clarification into the Discussion section.

      Method

      (5) More information may be needed about MCNPs:

      a) As reported, there are nanoparticles with different colors in brightfield microscopy, but the particles are also excitable in fluorescence microscopy. Would you please provide a summary about excitation/emission wavelengths of the different MCNPs? This is crucial to understand to what extent the method is compatible with fluorescence immunohistochemistry.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful attention and professional suggestion. We fully agree that this issue is critical for evaluating the compatibility of our method with fluorescent immunohistochemistry. Different types of metal compound nanoparticles (MCNPs) have clearly distinguishable spectral properties:

      - MCNP-Green and MCNP-Yellow: AF488-matched spectra, with excitation/emission wavelengths of 495/519 nm.

      - MCNP-Pink: Designed for far-red spectra, with excitation/emission wavelengths of 561/640 nm.

      - MCNP-Black: Non-fluorescent, appearing black under bright-field microscopy only.

      The above information has been added to the Materials and Methods section.

      b) Also, is there more systematic information available concerning the advantage of these particles compared to 'traditional' fluorescence dyes, such as Alexa fluor or Cy-dyes, in fluorescence microscopy and concerning their compatibility with various tissue clearing methods (e.g., with the frequently used organic-solvent-based methods)?

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed question. Compared with conventional organic fluorescent dyes, MCNP offers the following advantages:

      - Enhanced photostability: Its inorganic core-shell structure resists fading even after hydrogen peroxide bleaching.

      - High signal stability: Fluorescence is maintained during aqueous-based clearing (e.g., CUBIC) and multiple rounds of staining without quenching.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion. In our Liver-CUBIC system, MCNP nanoparticles exhibited excellent multi-channel labeling stability and fluorescence signal retention. Regarding compatibility with other clearing methods (e.g., SCAFE, SeeDB, CUBIC), since these methods have limited effectiveness for whole-liver clearing (see Figure 2 of Tainaka, et al. 2014) and cannot meet the requirements for high-resolution microstructural imaging in this study, we consider further testing of their compatibility unnecessary.

      In summary, MCNP dye demonstrates superior signal stability and spectral separation compared with conventional organic fluorescent dyes in multi-channel, long-term, high-transparency three-dimensional tissue imaging.

      c) When you perfuse these particles, to which structures do they bind inside the ducts (vessels, bile ducts)? Is the 48h post-fixation enough to keep them inside the tubes/bind them to the vessel walls? Is there any 'wash-out' during the complex cutting/staining procedure? E.g., in Figure 2D: the 'classical' hepatic artery in the portal triad is not visible - but the MCNP apparently penetrated to the adjacent sinusoids at the edge of the lobulus. Also, in Figure 3B, there is a significant mismatch between the MNCP-green (bile duct) signal and the CD19 (epithelium marker) immunostaining. Please discuss these.

      The experimental results showed that following injection, MCNP nanoparticles primarily remained within the vascular and biliary lumens, and their tissue distribution depended on physical perfusion. No dye signal was observed to diffuse into the surrounding parenchyma, nor did the particles adhere to cell surfaces or enter cells. The newly added Supplementary Figures S2A–H further confirm this feature: the dye signal is strictly confined within the lumens, clearly delineating continuous vascular paths and biliary branching patterns, strongly supporting the conclusion that “MCNP dye is distributed only within luminal spaces.”

      Thus, MCNP dye mainly serves as an intraluminal tracer rather than a label for specific cell types.

      We provide the following explanations and analyses regarding MCNP distribution in the hepatic vascular and biliary systems and its post-fixation stability:

      - Potential signal displacement during sectioning/immunostaining: During slicing and immunostaining, a small number of particles may be washed away due to mechanical cutting or washing steps; however, the overall three-dimensional structure retains high spatial fidelity.

      - Observation in Figure 2D: MCNP was seen entering the sinusoidal spaces at the lobule periphery, but hepatic arteries were not visible, likely due to limitations in section thickness. Although arteries were not apparent in this slice, arterial distribution around the portal vein is visible in Figure 2C. It should be noted that Figures 2C, D, and E do not represent whole-liver imaging, so not all regions necessarily contain visible hepatic arteries. For easier identification, the main hepatic artery trunk is highlighted in cyan in Figure 2E.

      - Incomplete biliary signal in Figure 3B: This may be because CK19 labeling only covers biliary epithelial cells, whereas MCNP-green distributes throughout the biliary lumen. In Figure 3B, the terminal MCNP-green signal exhibits irregular polygonal structures, which we interpret as the canalicular regions.

      (6) Which fixative was used for 48h of postfixation (step 6) after MCNP injections?

      After MCNP injection, mouse livers were post-fixed in 4% paraformaldehyde (PFA) for 48 hours. This fixation condition effectively “locks” the MCNP particles within the vascular and biliary lumens, maintaining their spatial positions, while also being compatible with subsequent sectioning and multi-channel immunostaining analyses.

      The above information has been added to the Materials and Methods section

      (7) What is the 'desired thickness' in step 7? In the case of immunostained tissue, a 200-micrometer slice thickness is mentioned. However, based on the Methods, it is not completely clear what the actual thickness of the tissue was that was examined ultimately in the microscopes, and whether or not the clearing preceded the cutting or vice versa.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s question. The “desired thickness” referred to in step 7 of the manuscript corresponds to the thickness of tissue sections used for immunostaining and high-resolution microscopic imaging, which is typically around 200 µm. We selected 200 µm because this thickness is sufficient to observe the PLC structure in its entirety, allows efficient staining, and preserves tissue architecture well. Other researchers may choose different section thicknesses according to their experimental needs.

      In this study, the processing order for immunostained tissue samples was sectioning followed by clearing, as detailed below:

      Section Thickness

      To ensure antibody penetration and preservation of three-dimensional structure, tissue sections were typically cut to ~200 µm. Thicker sections can be used if more complete three-dimensional structures are required, but adjustments may be needed based on antibody penetration and fluorescence detection conditions.

      Clearing Sequence

      After sectioning, slices were processed using the Liver-CUBIC aqueous-based clearing system.

      (8) More information is needed concerning the 'deep-focus microscopy' (Keyence), the applied confocal system, and the THUNDER 'high resolution imaging system': basic technical information, resolutions, objectives (N.A., working distance), lasers/illumination, filters, etc.

      In this study, all liver lobes (left, right, caudate, and quadrate lobes) were subjected to Liver-CUBIC aqueous-based clearing to ensure uniform visualization of MCNP fluorescence and immunolabeling throughout the three-dimensional imaging of the entire liver.

      The above information has been added to the Materials and Methods section.

      Imaging Systems and Settings

      VHX-6000 Extended Depth-of-Field Microscope: Objective: VH-Z100R, 100×–1000×; resolution: 1 µm (typical); illumination: coaxial reflected; transmitted illumination on platform: ON.

      Zeiss Confocal Microscope (980): Objectives: 20× or 40×; image size: 1024 × 1024. Fluorescence detection was set up in three channels:

      - Channel 1: 639 nm laser, excitation 650 nm, emission 673 nm, detection range 673–758 nm, corresponding to Cy5-T1 (red).

      - Channel 2: 561 nm laser, excitation 548 nm, emission 561 nm, detection range 547–637 nm, corresponding to Cy3-T2 (orange).

      - Channel 3: 488 nm laser, excitation 493 nm, emission 517 nm, detection range 490–529 nm, corresponding to AF488-T3 (green).

      Leica THUNDER Imager 3D Tissue: Fluorescence detection in two channels:

      - Channel 1: FITC channel (excitation 488 nm, emission ~520 nm).

      - Channel 2: Orange-red channel (excitation/emission 561/640 nm).<br /> Equipped with matching filter sets to ensure signal separation.

      The above information has been added to the Materials and Methods section.

      (9) Liver-CUBIC, step 2: which lobe(s) did you clear (...whole liver lobes...).

      In this study, all liver lobes (left, right, caudate, and quadrate lobes) were subjected to Liver-CUBIC aqueous-based clearing to ensure uniform visualization of MCNP fluorescence and immunolabeling throughout the three-dimensional imaging of the entire liver.

      The above information has been added to the Materials and Methods section.

      (10) For the DAB and TSA IHC stainings, did you use free-floating slices, or did you mount the vibratome sections and do the staining on mounted sections?

      In this study, fixed livers were first sectioned into thick slices (~200 µm) using a vibratome. Subsequently, DAB and TSA immunohistochemical (IHC) staining were performed on free-floating sections. During the entire staining process, the slices were kept floating in the solutions, ensuring thorough antibody penetration in the thick sections while preserving the three-dimensional tissue architecture, thereby facilitating multiple rounds of staining and three-dimensional imaging.

      (11) Regarding the 'transmission quantification': this was measured on 1 mm thick slices. While it is interesting to make a comparison between different clearing methods in general, one must note that it is relatively easy to clear 1mm thick tissue slices with almost any kind of clearing technique and in any tissues. The 'real' differences come with thicker blocks, such as >5mm in the thinnest dimension. Do you have such experiences (e.g., comparison in whole 'left lateral liver lobes')?

      In this study, we performed three-dimensional visualization of entire liver lobes to depict the distribution of MCNPs and the overall spatial architecture of the vascular and biliary systems (Figure S1F). However, due to the limitations of the plate reader and fluorescence imaging systems in terms of spatial resolution and light penetration depth, quantitative analyses were conducted only on tissue sections approximately 1 mm thick.

      Regarding the comparative quantification of different clearing methods, as the reviewer noted, nearly all aqueous- or organic solvent–based clearing techniques can achieve relatively uniform transparency in 1 mm-thick tissue sections, so differences at this thickness are limited. We have not yet conducted systematic comparisons on whole-lobe sections thicker than 5 mm and therefore cannot provide “true” difference data for thicker tissues.

      (12) There is no method description for the ELMI studies in the Methods.

      Transmission Electron Microscopy (TEM) Analysis of MCNPs

      Before imaging, the MCNP dye solution was centrifuged at 14,000 × g for 10 minutes at 4 °C to remove aggregates and impurities. The supernatant was collected, diluted 50-fold, and 3–4 μL of the sample was applied onto freshly glow-discharged Quantifoil R1.2/1.3 copper grids (Electron Microscopy Sciences, 300 mesh). The sample was allowed to sit for 30 seconds to enable particle adsorption, after which excess liquid was gently wicked away with filter paper and the grid was air-dried at room temperature. The sample was then negatively stained with 1% uranyl acetate for 30 seconds and air-dried again before imaging.

      Negative-stain TEM images were acquired using a JEOL JEM-1400 transmission electron microscope operating at 120 kV and equipped with a CCD camera. Data acquisition followed standard imaging conditions.

      The above information has been added to the Materials and Methods section.

      (13) Please, provide a method description for the applied CCl4 cirrhosis model. This is completely missing.

      (1) Under a fume hood, carbon tetrachloride (CCl₄) was dissolved in corn oil at a 1:3 volume ratio to prepare a working solution, which was filtered through a 0.2 μm filter into a 30 mL glass vial. In our laboratory, to mimic chronic injury, mice in the experimental group were intraperitoneally injected at a dose of 1 mL/kg body weight per administration.

      (2) Mice were carefully removed from the cage and placed on a scale to record body weight for calculation of the injection volume.

      (3) The needle cap was carefully removed, and the required volume of the pre-prepared CCl₄ solution was drawn into the syringe. The syringe was gently flicked to remove any air bubbles.

      (4) Mice were placed on a textured surface (e.g., wire cage) and restrained. When the mouse was properly positioned, ideally with the head lowered about 30°, the left lower or right lower abdominal quadrant was identified.

      (5) Holding the syringe at a 45° angle, with the bevel facing up, the needle was inserted approximately 4–5 mm into the abdominal wall, and the calculated volume of CCl₄ was injected.

      (6) Mice were returned to their cage and observed for any signs of discomfort.

      (7) Needles and syringes were disposed of in a sharps container without recapping. A new syringe or needle was used for each mouse.

      (8) To establish a progressive liver fibrosis model, injections were administered twice per week (e.g., Monday and Thursday) for 3 or 6 consecutive weeks (n=3 per group). Control mice were injected with an equal volume of corn oil for 3 or 6 weeks (n=3 per group).

      (9) Forty-eight hours after the last injection, mice were euthanized by cervical dislocation, and livers were rapidly harvested. Portions of the liver were processed for paraffin embedding and histological sectioning, while the remaining tissue was either immediately frozen or used for subsequent molecular biology analyses.

      The above information has been added to the Materials and Methods section.

      (14) Please provide a method description for the quantifications reported in Figures 5D, 5F, and 6E.

      ImageJ software was used to analyze 3D stained images (Figs. 5F, 6E), and the ultra-depth-of-field 3D analysis module was used to analyze 3D DAB images (Fig. 5D). The specific steps are as follows:

      Figure 5D: DAB-stained 3D images from the control group and the CCl<sub>4</sub> 6-week (CCl<sub>4</sub>-6W) group were analyzed. For each group, 20 terminal bile duct branch nodes were randomly selected, and the actual path distance along the branch to the nearest portal vein surface was measured. All measurements were plotted as scatter plots to reflect the spatial extension of bile ducts relative to the portal vein under different conditions.

      Figure 5F: TSA 3D multiplex-stained images from the control group, CCl<sub>4</sub> 3-week (CCl<sub>4</sub>-3W), and CCl<sub>4</sub> 6-week (CCl<sub>4</sub>-6W) groups were analyzed. For each group, 5 terminal bile duct branch nodes were randomly selected, and the actual path distance along the branch to the nearest portal vein surface was measured. Measurements were plotted as scatter plots to illustrate bile duct spatial extension.

      Figure 6E: TSA 3D multiplex-stained images from the control, CCl<sub>4</sub>-3W, and CCl<sub>4</sub>-6W groups were analyzed. For each group, 5 terminal nerve branch nodes were randomly selected, and the actual path distance along the branch to the nearest portal vein surface was measured. Scatter plots were generated to depict the spatial distribution of nerves under different treatment conditions.

      (15) Please provide a method description for the human liver samples you used in Figure S6. Patient data, fixation, etc...

      The human liver tissue samples shown in Figure S6 were obtained from adjacent non-tumor liver tissues resected during surgical operations at West China Hospital, Sichuan University. All samples used were anonymized archived tissues, which were applied for scientific research in accordance with institutional ethical guidelines and did not involve any identifiable patient information. After being fixed in 10% neutral formalin for 24 hours, the tissues were routinely processed for paraffin embedding (FFPE), and sectioned into 4 μm-thick slices for immunostaining and fluorescence imaging.

      Results

      (16) While it is stated in the Methods that certain color MCNPs were used for labelling different structures (i.e., yellow: hepatic artery; green: bile duct; portal vein: pink; central veins: black), in some figures, apparently different color MCNPs are used for the respective structures. E.g., in Figure 1J, the artery is pink and the portal vein is green. Please clarify this.

      The color assignment of MCNP dyes is not fixed across different experiments or schematic illustrations. MCNP dyes of different colors are fundamentally identical in their physical and chemical properties and do not exhibit specific binding or affinity for particular vascular structures. We select different colors based on experimental design and imaging presentation needs to facilitate distinction and visualization, thereby enhancing recognition in 3D reconstruction and image display. Therefore, the color labeling in Figure 1F is primarily intended to illustrate the distribution of different vascular systems, rather than indicating a fixed correspondence to a specific dye or injection color.

      (17) In Figure 1J, the hepatic artery is extremely shrunk, while the portal vein is extremely dilated - compared to the physiological situation. Does it relate to the perfusion conditions?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s attention. In fact, under normal physiological conditions, the hepatic arteries labeled by CD31 are naturally narrow. Therefore, the relatively thin hepatic arteries and thicker portal veins shown in Figure 1J are normal and unrelated to the perfusion conditions. See figure 1E of Adori et al., 2021.

      (18) Re: MCNP-black labelled 'oval fenestrae': the Results state 50-100 nm, while they are apparently 5-10-micron diameter in Figure 1I. Accordingly, the comparison with the ELMI studies in the subsequent paragraph is inappropriate.

      We thank the reviewer for the correction. The previous statement was a typographical error. In fact, the diameter of the “elliptical windows” marked by MCNP-black is 5–10 μm, so the diameter of 5–10 μm shown in Figure 1I is correct.

      (19) Please, correct this erroneous sentence: 'Pink marked the hepatic arterial system by injection extrahepatic duct (Figure 2B).'

      Original sentence: “The hepatic arterial system was labeled in pink by injection through the extrahepatic duct (Figure 2B).”

      Revised sentence: “The hepatic arterial system was labeled in pink by injection through the left ventricle (Figure 2B).”

      (20) How do you define the 'primary portal vein tract'?

      We thank the reviewer for the question. The term “primary portal vein tract” refers to the first-order branches of the portal vein that enter the liver from the hepatic hilum. These are the major branches arising directly from the main portal vein trunk and are responsible for supplying blood to the respective hepatic lobes. This definition corresponds to the concept of the first-order portal vein in hepatic anatomy.

      (21) I am concerned that the 'periportal lamellar complex (PLC)' that the Authors describe really exists as a distinct anatomical or functional unit. I also see these in 3D scans - in my opinion, these are fine, lower-order portal vein branches that connect the portal veins to the adjacent sinusoid. The strong MCNP-labelling of these structures may be caused by the 'sticking' of the perfused MCNP solutions in these 'pockets' during the perfusion process. What do these structures look like with SMA or CD31 immunostaining? Also, one may consider that the anatomical evaluation of these structures may have limitations in tissue slices. Have you ever checked MCNP-perfused, cleared full live lobes in light sheet microscope scans? I think this would be very useful to have a comprehensive morphological overview. Unfortunately, based on the presented documentation, I am also not convinced that PLCs are 'co-localize' with fine terminal bile duct branches (Figure 3E, S3C), or with TH+ 'neuronal bead chain networks' (Fig 6C). More detailed and more convincing documentation is needed here.

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed comments. Regarding the existence and function of the periportal lamellar complex (PLC), our observations are based on MCNP-Pink labeling of the portal vein, through which we were able to identify the PLC structure surrounding the portal branches. It should be noted that the PLC represents a very small anatomical structure. Although we have not yet performed light-sheet microscopy scanning, we anticipate that such imaging would primarily visualize larger portal vein branches. Nevertheless, this does not affect our overall conclusions.

      We also appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion that the observed structures might result from MCNP adherence during perfusion. To verify the structural characteristics of the PLC, we performed immunostaining for SMA and CD31, which revealed a specific arrangement pattern of smooth muscle and endothelial markers rather than simple perfusion-induced deposition (Figures 4F and S6B).

      Regarding the apparent colocalization of the PLC with terminal bile duct branches (Figures 3E and S3C) and TH⁺ neuronal bead-like networks (Figure 6C), we acknowledge that current literature evidence remains limited. Therefore, we have carefully described these observations as possible spatial associations rather than definitive conclusions. Future studies integrating high-resolution three-dimensional imaging with functional analyses will help to further clarify the anatomical and physiological significance of the PLC.

      (22) 'Extended depth-of-field three-dimensional bright-field imaging revealed a strict 1:1 anatomical association between the primary portal vein trunk (diameter 280 {plus minus} 32 μm) and the first-order bile duct (diameter 69 {plus minus} 8 μm) (Figures 3A and S3A)'.

      How do you define '1:1 anatomical association'? How do you define and identify the 'order' (primary, secondary) of vessel and bile duct branches in 200-micrometer slices?

      We thank the reviewer for the question. In this study, the term “1:1 anatomical correlation” refers to the stable paired spatial relationship between the main portal vein trunk and its corresponding primary bile duct within the same portal territory. In other words, each main portal vein branch is accompanied by a primary bile duct of matching branching order and trajectory, together forming a “vascular–biliary bundle.”

      The definitions of “primary” and “secondary” branches were based on extended-depth 3D bright-field reconstructions, considering both branching hierarchy and vessel/duct diameters: primary branches arise directly from the main trunk at the hepatic hilum and exhibit the largest diameters (averaging 280 ± 32 μm for the portal vein and 69 ± 8 μm for the bile duct), whereas secondary branches extend from the primary branches toward the lobular interior with smaller calibers.

      (23) In my opinion, the applied methodical approach in the single cell transcriptomics part (data mining in the existing liver single cell database and performing Venn diagram intersection analysis in hepatic endothelial subpopulations) is largely inappropriate and thus, all the statements here are purely speculative. In my opinion, to identify the molecular characteristics of such small and spatially highly organized structures like those fine radial portal branches, the only way is to perform high-resolution spatial transcriptomic.

      We thank the reviewer for the comment. We fully acknowledge the importance of high-resolution spatial transcriptomics in identifying the fine structural characteristics of portal vein branches. Due to current funding and technical limitations, we were unable to perform such high-resolution spatial transcriptomic analyses. However, we validated the molecular features of the PLC using another publicly available liver single-cell RNA-sequencing dataset, which provided preliminary supporting evidence (Figures S6B and S6C). In the manuscript, we have carefully stated that this analysis is exploratory in nature and have avoided overinterpretation. In future studies, high-resolution spatial omics approaches will be invaluable for more precisely delineating the molecular characteristics of these fine structures.

      (24) 'How the autonomic nervous system regulates liver function in mice despite the apparent absence of substantive nerve fiber invasion into the parenchyma remains unclear.'

      Please consider the role of gap junctions between hepatocytes (e.g., Miyashita, 1991; Seseke, 1992).

      In this study, we analyzed the spatial distribution of hepatic nerves in mice using immunofluorescence staining and found that nerve fibers were almost exclusively confined to the portal vein region (Figure S6A). Notably, this distribution pattern differs markedly from that in humans. Previous studies have shown that, in human livers, nerves are not only located around the portal veins but also present along the central veins, interlobular septa, and within the parenchymal connective tissue (Miller et al., 2021; Yi, la Fleur, Fliers & Kalsbeek, 2010).

      Further research has provided a physiological explanation for this interspecies difference: even among species with distinct sympathetic innervation patterns in the parenchyma—i.e., with or without direct sympathetic input—the sympathetic efferent regulatory functions may remain comparable (Beckh, Fuchs, Ballé & Jungermann, 1990). This is because signals released from aminergic and peptidergic nerve terminals can be transmitted to hepatocytes through gap junctions as electrical signals (Hertzberg & Gilula, 1979; Jensen, Alpini & Glaser, 2013; Seseke, Gardemann & Jungermann, 1992; Taher, Farr & Adeli, 2017).

      However, the scarcity of nerve fibers within the mouse hepatic parenchyma suggests that the mechanisms by which the autonomic nervous system regulates liver function in mice may differ from those in humans. This observation prompted us to further investigate the potential role of PLC endothelial cells in this process.

      (25) Please, correct typos throughout the text.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We have carefully proofread the entire manuscript and corrected all typographical errors and minor language issues throughout the text.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) A strong recommendation - the authors ought to challenge their scRNAsq- re-analysis with another scRNAseq dataset, namely a recently published atlas of adult liver endothelial, but also mesenchymal, immune, and parenchymal cell populations https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40954217/, performed with Smart-seq2 approach, which is perfectly suitable as it brings higher resolution data, and extensive cluster identity validation with stainings. Pietilä et al. indicate a clear distinction of portal vein endothelial cells into two populations that express Adgrg6, Jag1 (e2c), from Vegfc double-positive populations (e5c and e2c). Moreover, the dataset also includes the arterial endothelial cells that were shown to be part of the PLC, but were not followed up with the scRNAseq analysis. This distinction could help the authors to further validate their results, better controlling for cross-contaminations that may occur during scRNAseq preparation.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestion. As noted, we have further validated the molecular characteristics of the PLC using a recently published atlas of adult liver endothelial cells (Pietilä et al., 2023, PMID: 40954217). This dataset, generated using the Smart-seq2 technique, provides high-resolution transcriptomic profiles. By analyzing this dataset, we identified a CD34⁺LY6A⁺ portal vein endothelial cell population within the e2 cluster, which is localized around the portal vein. We then examined pathways and gene expression patterns related to hematopoiesis, bile duct formation, and neural signaling within these cells. The results revealed gene enrichment patterns consistent with those observed in our primary dataset, further supporting the robustness of our analysis of the PLC’s molecular characteristics.

      (2) Improving the methods section is highly recommended, this includes more detailed information for material and protocols used - catalog numbers; protocol details of the usage - rocking platforms, timing, and tubes used for incubations; GitHub or similar page with code used for the scRNA seq re-analysis.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable suggestion. We have added more detailed information regarding the materials and experimental procedures in the Methods section, including catalog numbers, incubation conditions (such as the type of shaker, incubation time, and tube specifications), and other relevant parameters.

      (3) In Figure 2A, the authors claim the size of the nanoparticle is 100nm, while based on the image, the size is ~150-180nm. A more thorough quantification of the particle size would help users estimate the usability of their method for further applications.

      We thank the reviewer for the comment. In the TEM image shown in Figure 2A, the nanoparticles indeed appear to be approximately 150–200 nm in size. We have re-verified the particle dimensions and will update the corresponding description in the Methods section to allow readers to more accurately assess the applicability of this approach.

      (4) In Figure 3E, it is not clear what is labeled by the pink signal. Please consider labeling the structures in the figure.

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable comment. The pink signal in Figure 3E was originally intended to label the hepatic artery. However, a slight spatial misalignment occurred during the labeling process, making its position appear closer to the central vein rather than the portal vein in the image. To avoid misunderstanding, we will add clear annotations to the image and clarify this deviation in the figure legend in the revised version. It should also be noted that this figure primarily aims to illustrate the spatial relationship between the bile duct and the portal vein, and this minor deviation does not affect the reliability of our experimental conclusions.

      (5) The following statement is not backed by quantification as it ought to be „Dual-channel three-dimensional confocal imaging combined with CK19 immunostaining revealed that the sites of dye leakage did not coincide with the CK19-positive terminal bile duct epithelium, but instead were predominantly localized within regions adjacent to the PLC structures".

      We thank the reviewer for the valuable comment. We have added the corresponding quantitative analysis to support this conclusion. Quantitative assessment of the extended-depth imaging data revealed that dye leakage predominantly occurred in regions adjacent to the PLC structure, rather than in the perivenous sinusoidal areas. The corresponding results have been presented in the revised Figure 3G.

      (6) Similarly, Figure 4F is central to the Sca1CD34 cell type identification but lacks any quantification, providing it would strengthen the key statement of the article. A possible way to approach this is also by FACS sorting the double-positive cells and bluk/qRT validation.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We agree that quantitative validation of the Sca1⁺CD34⁺ population by FACS sorting could further support our conclusions. However, the primary focus of this study is on the spatial localization and transcriptional features of PLC endothelial cells. The identification of the Sca1⁺CD34⁺ subset is robustly supported by multiple complementary approaches, including three-dimensional imaging, co-staining with pan-endothelial markers, and projection mapping analyses. Collectively, these lines of evidence provide a solid basis for characterizing this unique endothelial population.

      (7) The images in Figure S4D are not comparable, as the Sca1-stained image shows a longitudinal section of the PV, but the other stainings are cross-sections of PVs.

      We thank the reviewer for the careful comment. We agree that the original Sca1-stained image, being a longitudinal section of the portal vein, was not optimal for direct comparison with other cross-sectional images. We have replaced it with a cross-sectional image of the portal vein to ensure comparability across all images. The updated image has been included in the revised Supplementary Figure S4D.

      (8) I might be wrong, but Figure 4J is entirely missing, and only a cartoon is provided. Either remove the results part or provide the data.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s careful observation. Figure 4J was intentionally designed as a schematic illustration to summarize the structural relationships and spatial organization of the portal vein, hepatic artery, and PLC identified in the previous panels (Figures 4A–4I). It does not represent newly acquired experimental data, but rather serves to provide a conceptual overview of the findings.

      To avoid misunderstanding, we have clarified this point in the figure legend and the main text, stating that Figure 4J is a schematic summary rather than an experimental image. Therefore, we respectfully prefer to retain the schematic figure to aid readers’ interpretation of the preceding results.

      (9) The methods section lacks information about the CCL4concentration, and it is thus hard to estimate the dosage of CCL4 received (ml/kg). This is important for the interpretation of the severity of the fibrosis and presence of cirrhosis, as different doses may or may not lead to cirrhosis within the short regimen performed by the authors [PMID: 16015684 DOI: 10.3748/wjg.v11.i27.4167]. Validation of the fibrosis/cirrhosis severity is, in this case, crucial for the correct interpretation of the results. If the level of cirrhosis is not confirmed, only progressive fibrosis should be mentioned in the manuscript, as these two terms cannot be used interchangeably.

      Thank you for the reviewer’s comment. We indeed omitted the information on the concentration of carbon tetrachloride (CCl<sub>4</sub>) in the Methods section. In our experiments, mice received intraperitoneal injections of CCl<sub>4</sub> at a dose of 1 mL/kg body weight, twice per week, for a total of six weeks. We have revised the manuscript accordingly, using the term “progressive fibrosis” to avoid confusion between fibrosis and cirrhosis.

      (10) The following statement is not backed by any correlation analysis: "Particularly during liver fibrosis progression, the PLC exhibits dynamic structural extension correlating with fibrosis severity,.. ".

      We thank the reviewer for the comment. The original statement that the “PLC correlates with fibrosis severity” lacked support from quantitative analysis. To ensure a precise description, we have revised the sentence as follows: “During liver fibrosis progression, the PLC exhibits dynamic structural extension.”

      (11) Similarly, the following statement is not followed by data that would address the impact of innervation on liver function: "How the autonomic nervous system regulates liver function in mice despite the apparent absence of substantive nerve fiber invasion into the parenchyma remains unclear.".

      This section has been revised. In this study, we analyzed the spatial distribution of nerves in the mouse liver using immunofluorescence staining. The results showed that nerve fibers were almost entirely confined to the portal vein region (Figure S6A). Notably, this distribution pattern differs significantly from that in humans. Previous studies have demonstrated that in the human liver, nerves are not only distributed around the portal vein but also present in the central vein, interlobular septa, and connective tissue of the hepatic parenchyma (Miller et al., 2021; Yi, la Fleur, Fliers & Kalsbeek, 2010).

      Previous studies have further explained the physiological basis for this difference: even among species with differences in parenchymal sympathetic innervation (i.e., species with or without direct sympathetic input), their sympathetic efferent regulatory functions may still be similar (Beckh, Fuchs, Ballé & Jungermann, 1990). This is because signals released by adrenergic and peptidergic nerve terminals can be transmitted to hepatocytes as electrical signals through intercellular gap junctions (Hertzberg & Gilula, 1979; Jensen, Alpini & Glaser, 2013; Seseke, Gardemann & Jungermann, 1992; Taher, Farr & Adeli, 2017). However, the scarcity of nerve fibers in the mouse hepatic parenchyma suggests that the mechanism by which the autonomic nervous system regulates liver function in mice may differ from that in humans. This finding also prompts us to further explore the potential role of PLC endothelial cells in this process.

      (12) Could the authors discuss their interpretation of the results in light of the fact that the innervation is lower in cirrhotic patients? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2871629/. Also, while ADGRG6 (Gpr126) may play important roles in liver Schwann cells, it is likely not through affecting myelination of the nerves, as the liver nerves are not myelinated https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2407769/ and https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.93.23.13280.

      We have revised the text to state that although most hepatic nerves are unmyelinated, GPR126 (ADGRG6) may regulate hepatic nerve distribution via non-myelination-dependent mechanisms. Studies have shown that GPR126 exerts both Schwann cell–dependent and –independent functions during peripheral nerve repair, influencing axon guidance, mechanosensation, and ECM remodeling (Mogha et al., 2016; Monk et al., 2011; Paavola et al., 2014).

      (13) The manuscript would benefit from text curation that would:

      a) Unify the language describing the PLC, so it is clear that (if) it represents protrusions of the portal veins.

      We have standardized the description of the PLC throughout the manuscript, clearly specifying its anatomical relationship with the portal vein. Wherever appropriate, we indicate that the PLC represents protrusions associated with the portal vein, avoiding ambiguous or inconsistent statements.

      b) Increase the accuracy of the statements.

      Examples: "bile ducts, and the central vein in adult mouse livers."

      We have refined all statements for accuracy.

      c) Reduce the space given to discussion and results in the introduction, moving them to the respective parts. The same applies to the results section, where discussion occurs at more places than in the Discussion part itself.

      We have edited the Introduction, removing detailed results and functional explanations, and retaining only a concise overview.

      Examples: "The formation of PLC structures in the adventitial layer may participate in local blood flow regulation, maintenance of microenvironmental homeostasis, and vascular-stem cell interactions."

      "This finding suggests that PLC endothelial cells not only regulate the periportal microcirculatory blood flow, but also establish a specialized microenvironment that supports periportal hematopoietic regulation, contributing to stem cell recruitment, vascular homeostasis, and tissue repair. "

      "Together, these findings suggest the PLC endothelium may act as a key regulator of bile duct branching and fibrotic microenvironment remodeling in liver cirrhosis. " This one in particular would require further validation with protein stainings and similar, directly in your model.

      d) Provide a clear reference for the used scRNA seq so it's clear that the data were re-analyzed.

      Example: "single-cell transcriptomic analysis revealed significant upregulation of bile duct-related genes in the CD34<sup>+</sup>Sca-1<sup>+</sup> endothelium of PLC in cirrhotic liver, with notably high expression of Lgals1 (Galectin-1) and HGF(Figure 5G) "

      When describing the transcriptional analysis of PLC endothelial cells, we explicitly cited the original scRNA-seq dataset (Su et al., 2021), clarifying that these data were reanalyzed rather than newly generated.

      e) Introducing references for claims that, in places, are crucial for further interpretation of experiments.

      Examples: "It not only guides bile duct branching during development but also"; the authors show no data from liver development.

      Thank you for pointing this out. We have revised the relevant statement to ensure that the claim is accurate and well-supported.

      f) Results sentence "Instead, bile duct epithelial cells at the terminal ducts extended partially along the canalicular network without directly participating in the formation of the bile duct lumen." Lacks a callout to the respective Figure.

      We would like to thank the reviewers for pointing out this issue. In the revised manuscript, the relevant image (Figure 3D) has been clearly annotated with white arrows to indicate the phenomenon of terminal cholangiocytes extending along the bile canaliculi network. Additionally, the schematic diagram on the right side clearly shows the bile canaliculi, cholangiocytes, and bile flow direction using arrows and color coding, thus intuitively corresponding to the textual description.

      (14) Formal text suggestions: The manuscript text contains a lot of missed or excessive spaces and several typos that ought to be fixed. A few examples follow:

      a) "densely n organized vascular network "

      b) "analysis, while offering high spatial "

      c) "specific differences, In the human liver, "

      d) Figure 4F has a typo in the description.

      e) "generation of high signal-to-noise ratio, multi-target " SNR abbreviation was introduced earlier.

      f) Canals of Hering, CoH abbreviation comes much later than the first mention of the Canals of Hering.

      We thank the reviewer for the helpful comment regarding textual consistency. We have carefully reviewed and revised the entire manuscript to improve the accuracy, clarity, and consistency of the text.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Domínguez-Rodrigo and colleagues make a moderately convincing case for habitual elephant butchery by Early Pleistocene hominins at Olduvai Gorge (Tanzania), ca. 1.8-1.7 million years ago. They present this at the site scale (the EAK locality, which they excavated), as well as across the penecontemporaneous landscape, analyzing a series of findspots that contain stone tools and large-mammal bones. The latter are primarily elephants, but giraffids and bovids were also butchered in a few localities. The authors claim that this is the earliest well-documented evidence for elephant butchery; doing so requires debunking other purported cases of elephant butchery in the literature, or in one case, reinterpreting elephant bone manipulation as being nutritional (fracturing to obtain marrow) rather than technological (to make bone tools). The authors' critical discussion of these cases may not be consensual, but it surely advances the scientific discourse. The authors conclude by suggesting that an evolutionary threshold was achieved at ca. 1.8 ma, whereby regular elephant consumption rich in fats and perhaps food surplus, more advanced extractive technology (the Acheulian toolkit), and larger human group size had coincided.

      The fieldwork and spatial statistics methods are presented in detail and are solid and helpful, especially the excellent description (all too rare in zooarchaeology papers) of bone conservation and preservation procedures. However, the methods of the zooarchaeological and taphonomic analysis - the core of the study - are peculiarly missing. Some of these are explained along the manuscript, but not in a standard Methods paragraph with suitable references and an explicit account of how the authors recorded bone-surface modifications and the mode of bone fragmentation. This seems more of a technical omission that can be easily fixed than a true shortcoming of the study. The results are detailed and clearly presented.

      By and large, the authors achieved their aims, showcasing recurring elephant butchery in 1.8-1.7 million-year-old archaeological contexts. Nevertheless, some ambiguity surrounds the evolutionary significance part. The authors emphasize the temporal and spatial correlation of (1) elephant butchery, (2) Acheulian toolkits, and (3) larger sites, but do not actually discuss how these elements may be causally related. Is it not possible that larger group size or the adoption of Acheulian technology have nothing to do with megafaunal exploitation? Alternative hypotheses exist, and at least, the authors should try to defend the causation, not just put forward the correlation. The only exception is briefly mentioning food surplus as a "significant advantage", but how exactly, in the absence of food-preservation technologies? Moreover, in a landscape full of aggressive scavengers, such excess carcass parts may become a death trap for hominins, not an advantage. I do think that demonstrating habitual butchery bears very significant implications for human evolution, but more effort should be invested in explaining how this might have worked.

      Overall, this is an interesting manuscript of broad interest that presents original data and interpretations from the Early Pleistocene archaeology of Olduvai Gorge. These observations and the authors' critical review of previously published evidence are an important contribution that will form the basis for building models of Early Pleistocene hominin adaptation.

      This is a good example of the advantages of the eLife reviewing process. It has become much too common, among traditional peer-reviewing journals, to reject articles when there is no coincident agreement in the reviews, regardless of the heuristics (i.e., empirically-supported weight) of the arguments on both reviewers. Reviewers 1 and 2 provide contrasting evaluations, and the eLife dialogue between authors and reviewers enable us to address their comments differentially. Reviewer 1 (R1), whose evaluation is overall positive, remarks that the methods of the zooarchaeological and taphonomic analysis are missing. We have added them now in the revised version of our manuscript. R1 also remarks that our work highlights correlation of events, but not necessarily causation. We did not establish causation because such interpretations bear a considerable amount of speculation (and they might have fostered further criticism by R2); however, in the revised version, we expanded our discussion of these issues substantially. Establishing causation among the events described is impossible, but we certainly provide arguments to link them.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors argue that the Emiliano Aguirre Korongo (EAK) assemblage from the base of Bed II at Olduvai Gorge shows systematic exploitation of elephants by hominins about 1.78 million years ago. They describe it as the earliest clear case of proboscidean butchery at Olduvai and link it to a larger behavioral shift from the Oldowan to the Acheulean.

      The paper includes detailed faunal and spatial data. The excavation and mapping methods appear to be careful, and the figures and tables effectively document the assemblage. The data presentation is strong, but the behavioral interpretation is not supported by the evidence.

      The claim for butchery is based mainly on the presence of green-bone fractures and the proximity of bones and stone artifacts. These observations do not prove human activity. Fractures of this kind can form naturally when bones break while still fresh, and spatial overlap can result from post-depositional processes. The studies cited to support these points, including work by Haynes and colleagues, explain that such traces alone are not diagnostic of butchery, but this paper presents them as if they were.

      The spatial analyses are technically correct, but their interpretation extends beyond what they can demonstrate. Clustering indicates proximity, not behavior. The claim that statistical results demonstrate a functional link between bones and artifacts is not justified. Other studies that use these methods combine them with direct modification evidence, which is lacking in this case.

      The discussion treats different bodies of evidence unevenly. Well-documented cut-marked specimens from Nyayanga and other sites are described as uncertain, while less direct evidence at EAK is treated as decisive. This selective approach weakens the argument and creates inconsistency in how evidence is judged.

      The broader evolutionary conclusions are not supported by the data. The paper presents EAK as marking the start of systematic megafaunal exploitation, but the evidence does not show this. The assemblage is described well, but the behavioral and evolutionary interpretations extend far beyond what can be demonstrated.

      We disagree with the arguments provided by Reviewer 2 (R2). The arguments are based on two issues: bone breakage and spatial association. We will treat both separately here.

      Bone breakage

      R2 argues that:

      “The claim for butchery is based mainly on the presence of green-bone fractures and the proximity of bones and stone artifacts. These observations do not prove human activity. Fractures of this kind can form naturally when bones break while still fresh, and spatial overlap can result from post-depositional processes. The studies cited to support these points, including work by Haynes and colleagues, explain that such traces alone are not diagnostic of butchery, but this paper presents them as if they were.”

      In our manuscript, we argued that green-breakage provides an equally good (or even  better) taphonomic evidence of butchery if documented following clear taphonomic indicators. Not all green breaks are equal and not all “cut marks” are unambiguously identifiable as such. First, “natural” elephant long limb breaks have been documented only in pre/peri-mortem stages when an elephant breaks a leg. As a matter of fact, they have only been reported in publication on femora, the thinnest long bone (Haynes et al., 2021). Unfortunately, they have been studied many months after the death of the individuals, and the published diagnosis is made under the assumption that no other process intervened in the modification of those bones during this vast time span. Most of the breaks resulting from pre-mortem fractures produce long smooth, oblique/helical outlines. Occasionally, some flake scarring may occur on the cortical surface. This has been documented as uneven, small-sized, spaced, and we are not sure if it resulted from rubbing of broken fragments while the animal was alive and attempting to walk or some may have resulted from dessication of the bone after one year. When looking at them in detail, such breaks contain sometimes step-microfractures and angular (butterfly-like) outlines. Sometimes, they may be accompanied by pseudo-notches, which are distinct and not comparable to the deep notches that hammerstone breaking generates on the same types of bones. Commonly, the edges of the breaks show some polishing, probably from separate break planes rubbing against each other. It should be emphasized that the experimental work on hammerstone breaking documented by Haynes et al. (2021) is based on bone fracture properties of bones that are no longer completely green. The cracking documented in their hammerstone experimentation, with very irregular outlines differs from the cracking that we are documented in butchery of recently dead elephants.

      All this contrasts with the overlapping notches and flake scars (mostly occurring on the medullary side of the bone), both of them bigger in size, with clear smooth, spiral and longitudinal trajectories, with a more intensive modification on the medullary surface, and with sharp break edges resulting from hammerstone breaking of the green bone. No “natural” break has been documented replicating the same morphologies displayed in the Supplementary File to our paper. We display specimens with inflection points, hackle marks on the breaks, overlapping scarring on the medullary surface, with several specimens displaying percussion marks and pitting (also most likely percussion marks). Most importantly, we document this patterned modification on elements other than femora, for which no example has been documented of purported morphological equifinality caused by pre-mortem “natural” breaking. In contrast, such morphologies are documented in hammerstone-broken completely green bones (work in progress). We cited the works of Haynes to support this, because they do not show otherwise. As a matter of fact, Haynes himself had the courtesy of making a thorough reading of our manuscript and did not encounter any contradiction with his work. 

      Spatial association

      R2 argues in this regard:

      “The spatial analyses are technically correct, but their interpretation extends beyond what they can demonstrate. Clustering indicates proximity, not behavior. The claim that statistical results demonstrate a functional link between bones and artifacts is not justified. Other studies that use these methods combine them with direct modification evidence, which is lacking in this case.”

      We should emphasize that there is some confusion in the use and interpretation of clustering by R2 when applied to EAK. R2 appears to interpret clustering as the typical naked-eye perception of the spatial association of different items. In contrast, we rely on the statistical concept of clustering, more specifically on spatial interdependence or covariance, which is different. Items may appear visually clustered but still be statistically independent. This could, for example, result from two independent depositional episodes that happen to overlap spatially. In such cases, the item-to-item relationship does not necessarily show any spatial interdependence between classes other than simple clustering (i.e., spatial coincidence in intensity).

      Spatial statistical interdependence, on the other hand, reflects a spatial relationship or co-dependence between different items. This goes beyond the mere fact that classes appear clustered: items between classes may show specific spatial relationships — they may avoid each other or occupy distinct positions in space (regular co-dependence), or they may interact within the same spatial area (clustering co-dependence). Our tests indicate the latter for EAK.

      Such patterns are difficult to explain when depositional events are unrelated, since the probability that two independent events would generate identical spatial patterns in the same loci is very low. They are also difficult to reconcile when post-depositional processes intervene and resediment part of the assemblage (Domínguez-Rodrigo et al. 2018).

      Finally, R2 concludes:

      “The discussion treats different bodies of evidence unevenly. Well-documented cut-marked specimens from Nyayanga and other sites are described as uncertain, while less direct evidence at EAK is treated as decisive. This selective approach weakens the argument and creates inconsistency in how evidence is judged.”

      The Nyayanga hippo remains bearing modifications have not been well-documented cut marks. Neither R2 nor we can differentiate those marks from those inflicted by natural abrasive processes in coarse-grained sedimentary contexts, where the carcasses are found. The fact that the observable microscopic features (through low-quality photographs as appear in the original publication) differ between the cut marks documented on smaller animals and those inferred for the hippo remains makes them even more ambiguous. Nowhere in our manuscript do we treat the EAK evidence (or any other evidence) as decisive, but as the most likely given the methods used and the results reported.

      References

      Haynes G, Krasinski K, Wojtal P. 2021. A Study of Fractured Proboscidean Bones in Recent and Fossil Assemblages. Journal of Archaeological Method and Theory 28:956–1025.

      Domínguez-Rodrigo, M., Cobo-Sánchez, L., yravedra, J., Uribelarrea, D., Arriaza, C., Organista, E., Baquedano, E. 2018. Fluvial spatial taphonomy: a new method for the study of post-depositional processes. Archaeological and Anthropological Sciences 10: 1769-1789.

      Recommendations for authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I have several recommendations that, in my opinion, could enhance the communication of this study to the readers. The first point is the only crucial one.

      (1) A detailed zooarchaeological methods section must be added, with explanations (or references to them) of precisely how the authors defined and recorded bone-surface modifications and mode of bone fragmentation.

      This appears in the revised version of the manuscript in the form of a new sub-section within the Methods section.

      (2) The title could be improved to better represent the contents of the paper. It contains two parts: the earliest evidence for elephant butchery (that's ok), and revealing the evolutionary impact of megafaunal exploitation. The latter point is not actually revealed in the manuscript, just alluded to here and there (see also below).

      We have elaborated on this in the revised version, linking megafaunal exploitation and anatomical changes (which appear discussed in much more detail in the references indicated).

      (3) The abstract does not make it clear whether the authors think that the megafaunal adaptation strongly correlates with the Acheulian technocomplex. It seems that they do, so please make this point apparent in the abstract.

      From a functional point of view, we document the correlation, but do not believe in the causation, since most butchering tools around these megafaunal carcasses are typologically non Acheulian. We have indicated so in the abstract.

      (4) Please define what you mean by "megafauna". How large should an animal be to be considered as megafauna in this particular context?

      We have added this definition: we identify as “megafauna” those animals heavier than 800 kg.

      (5) In the literature survey, consider also this Middle Pleistocene case-study of elephant butchery, including a probable bone tool: Rabinovich, R., Ackermann, O., Aladjem, E., Barkai, R., Biton, R., Milevski, I., Solodenko, N., and Marder, O., 2012. Elephants at the middle Pleistocene Acheulian open-air site of Revadim Quarry, Israel. Quaternary International, 276, pp.183-197.

      Added to the revised version

      (6) The paragraph in lines 123-160 is unclear. Do the authors argue that the lack of evidence for processing elephant carcasses for marrow and grease is universal? They bring forth a single example of a much later (MIS 5) site in Germany. Then, the authors state the huge importance of fats for foragers (when? Where? Surely not in all latitudes and ecosystems). This left me confused - what exactly are you trying to claim here?

      We have explained this a little more in the revised text. What we pointed out was that most prehistoric (and modern) elephant butchery sites leave grease-containing long bones intact. Evidence of anthropogenic breakage of these elements is rather limited. The most probably reason is the overabundance of meat and fat from the rest of the carcass and the time-consuming effort needed to access the medullary cavity of elephant long bones.

      (7) The paragraph in lines 174-187 disrupts the flow of the text, contains previously mentioned information, ends with an unclear sentence, and could be cut.

      (8) Results: please provide the MNI for the EAK site (presumably 1, but this is never mentioned).

      Done in the revised version.

      (9) Lines 292 - 295: The authors found no traces of carnivoran activity (carnivoran remains, coprolites, or gnawing marks on the elephant bones), yet they attribute the absence of some non-dense skeletal elements to carnivore ravaging. I cannot understand this rationale, given that other density-mediated processes could have deleted the missing bones and epiphysis.

      This interpretation stems from our observations of several elephant carcasses in the Okavango delta in Botswana. Those that were monitored showed deletion of remains (i.e., disappearance of certain bones, like feet) without necessarily imprinting damage on the rest of the carcass. Carnivore intervention in an elephant death site can result in deletion of a few remains without much damage (if any), or if hyena clans access the carcass, much more conspicuous damage can be documented. There is a whole range of carnivore signatures in between. We are currently working on our study of several elephant carcasses subjected to these highly variable degrees of carnivore impact.

      (10) Lines 412 - 422: "The clustering of the elephant (and hippopotamus) carcasses in the areas containing the highest densities of landscape surface artifacts is suggestive of a hominin agency in at least part of their consumption and modification." - how so? It could equally suggest that both hominins and elephants were drawn to the same lush environments.

      We agree. Both hominins and megafauna must have been drawn to the same ecological loci for interaction to emerge. However, the fact that the highest density clusters of artifacts coincide with the highest density of carcasses “showing evidence of having been broken”, is suggestive of hominin use and consumption.

      (11) Discussion: I suggest starting the Discussion with a concise appraisal of the lines of evidence detailed in the Results and their interpretation, and only then, the critical reassessment of other studies. Similarly, a new topic starts in line 508, but without any subheading or an introductory sentence that could assist the readers.

      We added the introductory lines of the former Conclusion section to the revised Discussion section, as suggested by R1.

      (12) Line 607: Neumark-Nord are Late Pleistocene sites (MIS 5), not Middle Pleistocene.

      Corrected.

      (13) Regarding the ambiguity in how megafaunal exploitation may be causally related to the other features of the early Acheulian, the authors can develop the discussion. Alternatively, they should explicitly state that correlation is not causation, and that the present study adds the megafaunal exploitation element to be considered in future discussion of the shifts in lifestyles 1.8 million years ago.

      We have done so.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The following detailed comments are provided to help clarify arguments, ensure accurate representation of cited literature, and strengthen the logical and methodological framing of the paper. Line numbers refer to the version provided for review.

      (1) Line 55: Such concurrency (sometimes in conjunction with other variables)

      The term "other variables" is very vague. I would suggest expanding on this or taking it out altogether.

      (2) Line 146: Megafaunal long bone green breakage (linked to continuous spiral fractures on thick cortical bone) is probably a less ambiguous trace of butchery than "cut marks", since many of the latter could be equifinal and harder to identify, especially in contexts of high abrasion and trampling (Haynes et al., 2021, 2020).

      This reasoning is not supported by the evidence or the cited sources. Green-bone spiral fractures only show that a bone broke while it was fresh and do not reveal who or what caused it. Carnivore feeding, trampling, and natural sediment pressure can all create the same patterns, so these fractures are not clearer evidence of butchery than cut marks. Cut marks, when they are preserved and morphologically clear, remain the most reliable indicator of human activity. The Haynes papers actually show the opposite of what is claimed here. They warn that spiral fractures and surface marks can form naturally and that fracture patterns alone cannot be used to infer butchery. This section should be revised to reflect what those studies actually demonstrate.

      The reasoning referred to in line 146 is further explained below in the original text as follows:

      “Despite the occurrence of green fractures on naturally-broken bones, such as those trampled by elephants (Haynes et al., 2020), those occurring through traumatic fracturing or gnawed by carnivores (Haynes and Hutson, 2020), these fail to reproduce the elongated, extensive, or helicoidal spiral fractures (uninterrupted by stepped sections), accompanied by the overlapping conchoidal scars (both cortical and medullary), the reflected scarring, the inflection points, or the impact hackled break surfaces and flakes typical of dynamic percussive breakage. Evidence of this type of green breakage had not been documented earlier for the Early Pleistocene proboscidean or hippopotamid carcasses, beyond the documentation of flaked bone with the purpose of elaboration of bone tools (Backwell and d’Errico, 2004; Pante et al., 2020; Sano et al., 2020).”

      The problem in the way that R2 uses Haynes et al.´s works is that R2 uses features separately. Natural breaks occurring while the bone is green can generate spiral smooth breaks, for example, but it is not the presence of a single feature that invalidates the diagnosis of agency or that is taphonomically relevant, but the concurrence of several of them. The best example of a naturally (pre-mortem) broken bone was published by Haynes et al.

      The natural break shows helical fractures, subjugated to linear (angular) fracture outlines. Notice how the crack displays a zig-zag. The break is smooth but most damage occurs on the cortical surface, with flaking adjacent to the break and step micro-fracturing on the edges. The cortical scarring is discontinuous (almost marginal) and very small, almost limited to the very edge of the break. No modification occurs on the medullary surface. No extensive conchoidal fractures are documented, and certainly none inside the medullary surface of the break.

      Compare with Figure S8, S10, S17 and S34 (all specimens are shown in their medullary surface):

      In these examples, we see clearly modified medullary surfaces with multiple green breaks and large-sized step fractures, accompanied in some examples by hackle marks. Some show large overlapping scars (of substantially bigger size than those documented in the natural break image). Not a single example of naturally-broken bones has been documented displaying these morphologies simultaneously. It is the comprehensive analysis of the co-occurrence of these features and not their marginal and isolated occurrence in naturally-broken bones that make a difference in the attribution of agency. Likewise, no example of naturally-broken bone has been published that could mimic any of the two green-broken bones documented at EAK. In contrast, we do have bones from our on-going experimentation with green elephant carcasses that jointly reproduce these features. See also Figure 6 of the article to find another example without any modern referent in the naturally-broken bones documented.

      We should emphasize that R2 is inaccurately portraying what Haynes et al.´s results really document. Contrary to R2´s assertion, trampling does not reproduce any of the examples shown above. Neither do carnivores. It should be stressed that Haynes & Harrod only document similar overlapping scarring on the medullary surface of bones, when using much smaller animals. In all the carnivore damage repertoire that they document for elephants, durophagous spotted hyenas can only inflict furrowing on the ends of the biggest long bones, especially if they are adults. Long bone midshafts remain inaccessible to them. The mid-shaft portions of bones that we document in our Supplementary File and at EAK cannot be the result of hyena (or carnivore damage) for this reason, and also because their intense gnawing on elephant bones leaves tooth marking on most of the elements that they modify, being absent in our sample.

      (3) Line 176: other than hominins accessed them in different taphonomically-defined stages- stages - the "Stages" is repeated twice

      Defined in the revised version

      (4) Line 174: Regardless of the type of butchery evidence - and with the taphonomic caveat that no unambiguous evidence exists to confirm that megafaunal carcasses were hunted or scavenged other than hominins accessed them in different taphonomically-defined stages- stages - the principal reasons for exploring megafaunal consumption in early human evolution is its origin, its episodic or temporally-patterned occurrence, its impact on hominin adaptation to certain landscapes, and its reflection on hominin group size and site functionality.

      This sentence is confusing and needs to be rewritten for clarity. It tries to combine too many ideas at once, and the phrasing makes it hard to tell what the main point is. The taphonomic caveat in the middle interrupts the sentence and obscures the argument. It should be broken into separate, clearer statements that distinguish what evidence exists, what remains uncertain, and what the broader goals of the discussion are.

      We believe the ideas are displayed clearly

      (5) Line 179: landscapes, and its reflection on hominin group size and site functionality. If hominins actively sought the exploitation of megafauna, especially if targeting early stages of carcass consumption, the recovery of an apparent surplus of resources reflects a substantially different behavior from the small-group/small-site pattern documented at several earlier Oldowan anthropogenic sites (Domínguez-Rodrigo et al., 2019) -or some modern foragers, like the Hadza, who only exploit megafaunal carcasses very sporadically, mostly upon opportunistic encounters (Marlowe, 2010; O'Connell et al., 1992; Wood, 2010; Wood and Marlowe, 2013).

      This sentence makes a reasonable point, but is written in a confusing way. The idea that early, deliberate access to megafauna would represent a different behavioral pattern from smaller Oldowan or modern foraging contexts is valid, but the sentence is awkward and hard to follow. It should be rephrased to make the logic clearer and more direct.

      We believe the ideas are displayed clearly

      (6) Line 186: When the process started of becoming megafaunal commensal started has major implications for human evolution.

      This sentence is awkward and needs to be rewritten for clarity. The phrasing "when the process started of becoming megafaunal commensal started" is confusing and grammatically incorrect. It could be revised to something like "Determining when hominins first began to interact regularly with megafauna has major implications for human evolution," or another version that clearly identifies the process being discussed.

      Modified in the revised version

      (7) Line189: The multiple taphonomic biases intervening in the palimpsestic nature of most of these butchery sites often prevent the detection of the causal traces linking megafaunal carcasses and hominins. Functional links have commonly been assumed through the spatial concurrence of tools and carcass remains; however, this perception may be utterly unjustified as we argued above. Functional association of both archaeological elements can more securely be detected through objective spatial statistical methods. This has been argued to be foundational for heuristic interpretations of proboscidean butchery sites (Giusti, 2021). Such an approach removes ambiguity and solidifies spatial functional association, as demonstrated at sites like Marathousa 1 (Konidaris et al., 2018) or TK Sivatherium (Panera et al., 2019). This method will play a major role in the present study.

      This section overstates what spatial analysis can demonstrate and misrepresents the cited studies. The works by Giusti (2021), Konidaris et al. (2018), and Panera et al. (2019) do use spatial statistics to examine relationships between artifacts and faunal remains, but they explicitly caution that spatial overlap alone does not prove functional or behavioral association. These studies argue that clustering can support such interpretations only when combined with detailed taphonomic and stratigraphic evidence. None of them claims that spatial analysis "removes ambiguity" or "solidifies" functional links. The text should be revised to reflect the more qualified conclusions of those papers and to avoid implying that spatial statistics can establish behavioral causation on their own.

      We disagree. Both works (Giusti and Panera) use spatial statistical tools to create an inferential basis reinforcing a functional association of lithics and bones. In both cases, the anthropogenic agency inferred is based on that. We should stress that this only provides a basis for argumentation, not a definitive causation. Again, those analyses show much more than just apparent visual clustering.

      (8) Line 200: Here, we present the discovery of a new elephant butchery site (Emiliano Aguirre Korongo, EAK), dated to 1.78 Ma, from the base of Bed II at Olduvai Gorge. It is the oldest unambiguous proboscidean butchery site at Olduvai.

      It is fine to state the main finding in the introduction, but the phrasing here is too strong. Calling EAK "the oldest unambiguous proboscidean butchery site" asserts certainty before the evidence is presented. The claim should be stated more cautiously, for example, "a new site that provides early evidence for proboscidean butchery," so that the language reflects the strength of the data rather than pre-judging it.

      We understand the caution by R2, but in this case, EAK is the oldest taphonomically-supported evidence of elephant butchery at Olduvai (see discussion about FLK North in the text). Whether this is declared at the beginning or the end of the text is irrelevant.

      (9) Line 224: The drying that characterizes Bed II had not yet taken place during this moment.

      This sentence reads like a literal translation. It should be rewritten for clarity.

      Modified in the revised version

      (10) Line 233: During the recent Holocene, the EAK site was affected by a small landslide which displaced the...

      This section contains far more geological detail than is needed for the argument. The reader only needs to know that the site block was displaced by a small Holocene landslide but retains its stratigraphic integrity. The extended discussion of regional faults, seismicity, and slope processes goes well beyond what is necessary for context and distracts from the main focus of the paper.

      We disagree. The geological information is what is most commonly missing from most archaeological reports. Here, it is relevant because of the atypical process and because it has been documented only twice with elephant butchery sites. Explaining the dynamic geological process that shaped the site helps to understand its spatial properties.

      (11) Line 264: In June 2022, a partial elephant carcass was found at EAK on a fragmented stratigraphic block...

      This section reads like field notes rather than a formal site description. Most of the details about the discovery sequence, trench setup, and excavation process are unnecessary for the main text. Only the basic contextual information about the find location, stratigraphic position, and anatomical composition is needed. The rest could be condensed or moved to the methods or supplementary material.

      We disagree. See reply above.

      (12) Line 291: hominins or other carnivores. Ongoing restoration work will provide an accurate estimate of well-preserved and modified fractions of the assemblage.

      This sentence is unclear and needs to specify what kind of restoration work is being done and what is meant by well-preserved and modified fractions. It is not clear whether modified refers to surface marks, diagenetic alteration, or something else. If the bones are still being cleaned or prepared, the analysis is incomplete, and the counts cannot be considered final. If restoration only means conservation or stabilization, that should be stated clearly so the reader understands that it does not affect the results. As written, it is not clear whether the data presented here are preliminary or complete.

      We added: For this reason, until restoration is concluded, we cannot produce any asssertion about the presence or absence of bone surface modifications.

      (13) Line 294: The tibiae were well preserved, but the epiphyseal portions of the femora were missing, probably removed by carnivores, which would also explain why a large portion of the rib cage and almost all vertebrae are missing.

      This explanation is not well supported. The missing elements could be the result of other forms of density-mediated destruction, such as sediment compaction or post-depositional fragmentation, especially since no tooth marks were found. Given the low density of ribs, vertebrae, and femoral epiphyses, these processes are more likely explanations than carnivore removal. The text should acknowledge these alternatives rather than attributing the pattern to carnivore activity without direct evidence.

      Sediment compaction and post-depositional can break bones but cannot make them disappear. Our excavation process was careful enough to detect bone if present. Their absence indicates two possibilities: erosion through the years at the front of the excavation or carnivore intervention. Carnivores can take elephant bones without impacting the remaining assemblage (see our reply above to a similar comment).

      (14) Line 304: The fact that the carcass was moved while encased in its sedimentary context, along with the close association of stone tools with the elephant bones, is in agreement with the inference that the animal was butchered by hominins. A more objective way to assess this association is through spatial statistical analysis.

      The authors state that "the carcass was moved while encased in its sedimentary context, along with the close association of stone tools with the elephant bones, is in agreement with the inference that the animal was butchered by hominins." This does not logically follow. Movement of the block explains why the bones and tools remain together, not how that association was created. The preserved association alone does not demonstrate butchery, especially in the absence of cut marks or other direct evidence of hominin activity.

      Again, we are sorry that R2 is completely overlooking the strong signal detected by the spatial statistical analysis. The way that the block moved, it preserved the original association of bones and tools. This statement is meant to clarify that despite the allochthonous nature of the block, the original autochthonous depositional process of both types of archaeological materials has been preserved. The spatial association, as statistically demonstrated, indicates that the functional link is more likely than any other alternative process. The additional fact that nowhere else in that portion of the outcrop do we identify scatters of tools (all appear clustered at a landscape scale with the elephant) adds more support to this interpretation. This would have been further supported by the presence of cut marks, no doubt, but their absence does not indicate lack of functional association, since as Haynes´ works have clearly shown, most bulk defleshing of modern elephant leaves no traces on most bones.

      (15) Line 370: This also shows that the functional connection between the elephant bones and the tools has been maintained despite the block post-sedimentary movement.

      The spatial analyses appear to have been carried out appropriately, and the interpretations of clustering and segregation are consistent with the reported results. However, the conclusion that the "functional connection" between bones and tools has been maintained goes beyond what spatial correlation alone can demonstrate. These analyses show spatial proximity and scale-dependent clustering but cannot, by themselves, confirm a behavioral or functional link.

      R2 is making this comment repeatedly and we have addressed it more than once above. We disagree and we refer to our replies above to sustain it.

      (16) Line 412: The clustering of the elephant (and hippopotamus) carcasses in the areas containing the highest densities of landscape surface artifacts is suggestive of a hominin agency in at least part of their consumption and modification. The presence of green broken elephant long bone elements in the area surveyed is only documented within such clusters, both for lower and upper Bed II. This constitutes inverse negative evidence for natural breaks occurring on those carcasses through natural (i.e., non-hominin) pre- and peri-mortem limb breaking (Haynes et al., 2021, 2020; Haynes and Hutson, 2020). In this latter case, it would be expected for green-broken bones to show a more random landscape distribution, and occur in similar frequencies in areas with intense hominin landscape use (as documented in high density artifact deposition) and those with marginal or non-hominin intervention (mostly devoid of anthropogenic lithic remains).

      The clustering of green-bone fractures with stone tools is intriguing but should be interpreted cautiously. The Haynes references are misrepresented here. Those studies address both cut marks and green-bone (spiral) fractures, emphasizing that each can arise through non-hominin processes such as trampling, carcass collapse, and sediment loading. They do not treat green fractures as clearer evidence of butchery; in fact, they caution that such breakage patterns can occur naturally and even form clustered distributions in areas of repeated animal activity. The claim that these studies support spiral fractures as unambiguous indicators of hominin activity, or that natural breaks would be randomly distributed, is not accurate.

      We would like to emphasize again that the Haynes´references are not misrepresented here. See our extensive reply above. If R2 can provide evidence of natural breakage patterns resulting from pre-mortem limb breaking or post-mortem trampling resulting in all limb bones being affected by these processes and resulting in smooth spiral breaks, accompanied with extensive and overlapping scarring on the medullary surface, in conjunction with the other features described in our replies above, then we would be willing to reconsider. With the evidence reported until now, that does not occur simultaneously on specimens resulting from studies on modern elephant bones.

      R2 seems to contradict him(her)self here by saying that Haynes studies show that cut marks are not reliable because they can also be reproduced via trampling. Until this point, R2 had been saying that only cut marks could demonstrate a functional link and support butchery. Haynes´ studies do not deal experimentally with sediment loading.

      (17) Line 424: This indicates that from lower Bed II (1.78 Ma) onwards, there is ample documented evidence of anthropogenic agency in the modification of proboscidean bones across the Olduvai paleolandscapes. The discovery of EAK constitutes, in this respect, the oldest evidence thereof at the gorge. The taphonomic evidence of dynamic proboscidean bone breaking across time and space supports, therefore, the inferences made by the spatial statistical analyses of bones and lithics at the site.

      This conclusion is overstated. The claim of "ample documented evidence of anthropogenic agency" is too strong, given that the main support comes from indirect indicators like green-bone fractures and spatial clustering rather than clear butchery marks. It would be more accurate to say that the evidence suggests or is consistent with possible hominin involvement. The final sentence also conflates association with causation; spatial and taphonomic data can indicate a relationship, but do not confirm that the carcasses were butchered by hominins.

      The evidence is based on spatially clustering (at a landscape scale) of tools and elephant (and other megafaunal taxa) bones, in conjunction with a large amount of green-broken elements. This interpretation, if we compare it against modern referents is supported even stronger. In the past few years, we have been conducting work on modern naturally dead elephant carcasses in Botswana and Zambia, and of the several carcasses that we have seen, we have not identified a single case of long bone shaft breaks like those described by Haynes as natural or like those we describe here as anthropogenic. This probably means that they are highly unlikely or marginal occurrences at a landscape scale. This seems to be supported by Haynes´ work too. Out of the hundreds of elephant carcasses that he has monitored and studied over the years for different works, we have managed to identify only two instances where he described natural pre-mortem breaks. This certainly qualifies as extremely marginal. 

      Most of the Results section is clearly descriptive, but beginning with "The clustering of the elephant (and hippopotamus) carcasses..." the text shifts from reporting observations to drawing behavioral conclusions. From this point on, it interprets the data as evidence of hominin activity rather than simply describing the patterns. This part would be more appropriate for the Discussion, or should be rewritten in a neutral, descriptive way if it is meant to stay in the Results.

      This appears extensively discussed in the Discussion section, but the data presented in the results is also interpreted in that section, following a clear argumental chain.

      (18) Line 433: A recent discovery of a couple of hippopotamus partial carcasses at the 3.0-2.6 Ma site of Nyayanga (Kenya), spatially concurrent with stone artifacts, has been argued to be causally linked by the presence of cut marks on some bones (Plummer et al., 2023). The only evidence published thereof is a series of bone surface modifications on a hippo rib and a tibial crest, which we suggest may be the result of byproduct of abiotic abrasive processes; the marks contrast noticeably with the well-defined cut marks found on smaller mammal bones (Plummer et al. ́s 2023: Figure 3C, D) associated with the hippo remains (Plummer et al., 2023).

      The authors suggest that the Nyayanga marks could result from abiotic abrasion, but this claim does not engage with the detailed evidence presented by Plummer et al. (2023). Plummer and colleagues documented well-defined, morphologically consistent cut marks and considered the sedimentary context in their interpretation. Raising abrasion as a general possibility without addressing that analysis gives the impression of selective skepticism rather than an evaluation grounded in the published data.

      We disagree again on this matter. R2 does not clarify what he/she means by well-defined or morphologically consistent. We provide an alternative interpretation of those marks that fit their morphology and features and that Plummer at al did not successfully exclude. We also emphasize that the interpretation of the Nyayanga marks was made descriptively, without any analytical approach and with a high degree of subjectivity by the researcher. All of this disqualifies the approach as well defined and keeps casting an old look at modern taphonomy. Descriptive taphonomy is a thing of the 1980´s. Today there are a plethora of analytical methods, from multivariate statistics, to geometric morphometrics to AI computer vision (so far the most reliable) which represent how taphonomy (and more specifically, analysis of bone surface modifications) should be conducted in the XXI century. This approaches would reinforce interpretations as preliminarily published by Plummer et al, provided they reject alternative explanations like those that we have provided.

      (19) Line 459: It would have been essential to document that the FLK N6 tools associated with the elephant were either on the same depositional surface as the elephant bones and/or on the same vertical position. The ambiguity about the FLK N6 elephant renders EAK the oldest secure proboscidean butchery evidence at Olduvai, and also probably one of the oldest in the early Pleistocene elsewhere in Africa.

      The concern about vertical mixing is fair, but the tone makes it sound like the association is definitely not real. It would be more accurate to say that the evidence is ambiguous, not that it should be dismissed altogether.

      We have precisely done so. We do not dismiss it, but we cannot take it for anything solid since we excavated the site and show how easily one could make functional associations if forgetting about the third dimension. It is not a secure butchery site. This is what we said and we stick to this statement.

      (20) Line 479: In all cases, these wet environments must have been preferred places for water-dependent megafauna, like elephants and hippos, and their overlapping ecological niches are reflected in the spatial co-occurrence of their carcasses. Both types of megafauna show traces of hominin use through either cutmarked or percussed bones, green-broken bones, or both (Supplementary Information).

      The environmental part is good, but the behavioral interpretation is too strong. Saying elephants and hippos "must have been" drawn to these areas is too certain, and claiming that both "show traces of hominin use" makes it sound like every carcass was modified. It should be clearer that only some have possible evidence of this.

      The sentence only refers to both types of fauna taxonomically. No inference can be drawn therefor that all carcasses are modified.

      (21) Line 496: In most green-broken limb bones, we document the presence of a medullary cavity, despite the continuous presence of trabecular bone tissue on its walls.

      This sentence is confusing and doesn't seem to add anything meaningful. All limb bones naturally have a medullary cavity lined with trabecular bone, so it's unclear why this is noted as significant. The authors should clarify what they mean here or remove it if it's simply describing normal bone structure.

      No. Modern elephant long bones do not have a hollow medullary cavity. All the medullary volume is composed of trabecular tissue. Some elephants in the past had hollow medullary cavities, which probably contained larger amounts of marrow and fat. 

      (22) Line 518: We are not confident that the artefacts reported by de la Torre et al are indeed tools.

      While I generally agree with this statement, the paragraph reads as defensive rather than comparative. It would help if they briefly summarized what de la Torre et al. actually argued before explaining why they disagree.

      We devote two full pages of the Discussion section to do so precisely.

      (23) Lines 518-574: They are similar to the green-broken specimens that we have reported here...

      This part is very detailed but inconsistent. They argue that the T69 marks could come from natural processes, but they use similar evidence (green fractures, overlapping scars) to argue for human activity at EAK. If equifinality applies to one, it applies to both.

      We are confused by this misinterpretation. Features like green fractures and overlapping scars (among others) can be used to detect anthropogenic agency in elephant bone breaking; that is, any given specimen can be determined to have been an “artifact” (in the sense of human-created item), but going from there to interpreting an artifact as a tool, there is a large distance. Whereas an artifact (something made by a human) can be created indirectly through several processes (for example, demarrowing a bone resulting in long bone fragments), a tool suggest either intentional manufacture and use or both. That is the difference between de la Torre et al.´s interpretation and ours. We believe that they are showing anthropogenically-made items, but they have provided no proof that they were tools.

      (24) Line 576: A final argument used by the authors to justify the intentional artifactual nature of their bone implements is that the bone tools were found in situ within a single stratigraphic horizon securely dated to 1.5 million years ago, indicating systematic production rather than episodic use. This is taphonomically unjustified.

      The reasoning here feels uneven in how clustering evidence is used. At EAK, clustering of bones and artifacts is taken as meaningful evidence of hominin activity, but here the same pattern at T69 is treated as a natural by-product of butchery or carnivore activity. If clustering alone cannot distinguish between intentional and incidental association, the authors should clarify why it is interpreted as diagnostic in one case but not in the other.

      Again, we are confused by this misinterpretation. It applies to two different scenarios/questions:

      a) is there a functional link between tools and bones at EAK and T69? We have statistically demonstrated that at EAK and we think de la Torre et al. is trying to do the same for T69, although using a different method. 

      b) Are the purported tools at T69 tools? Are those that we report here tools? In this regard there is no evidence for either case and given that several bones from T69 come from animals smaller than elephants, we do not discard that carnivores might have been responsible for those, whereas hominin butchery might have been responsible for the intense long limb breaking at that site. It remains to be seen how many (if any) of those specimens were tools.

      (25) Line 600: If such a bone implement was a tool, it would be the oldest bone tool documented to date (>1.7 Ma).

      The comparison to prior studies is useful, and the point about missing use-wear traces is well taken. However, the last lines feel speculative. If no clear use evidence has been found, it's premature to suggest that one specimen "would be the oldest bone tool." That claim should be either removed or clearly stated as hypothetical.

      It clearly reads as hypothetical.

      (26) Line 606: Evidence documents that the oldest systematic anthropogenic exploitation of proboscidean carcasses are documented (at several paleolandscape scales) in the Middle Pleistocene sites of Neumark-Nord (Germany)(Gaudzinski-Windheuser et al., 2023a, 2023b).

      This is the first and only mention of Neumark-Nord in the paper, and it appears without any prior discussion or connection to the rest of the study. If this site is being used for comparison or as part of a broader temporal framework, it needs to be introduced and contextualized earlier. As written, it feels out of place and disconnected from the rest of the argument.

      This is a Late Pleistocene site and we do not see the need to present it earlier, given that the scope of this work is Early Pleistocene.

      (27) Line 608: Evidence of at least episodic access to proboscidean remains goes back in time (see review in Agam and Barkai, 2018; Ben-Dor et al., 2011; Haynes, 2022).

      The distinction between "systematic" and "episodic" exploitation is useful, but the authors should clarify what criteria define each. The phrase "episodic access...goes back in time" is vague and could be replaced with a clearer statement summarizing the nature of the earlier evidence.

      It is self-explanatory

      (28) Line 610: Redundant megafaunal exploitation is well documented at some early Pleistocene sites from Olduvai Gorge (Domínguez-Rodrigo et al., 2014a, 2014b; Organista et al., 2019, 2017, 2016).

      The phrase "redundant megafaunal exploitation" needs clarification. "Redundant" is not standard terminology in this context. Does this mean repeated, consistent, or overlapping behaviors? Also, while these same Olduvai sites are mentioned earlier, this phrasing also introduces new interpretive language not used before and implies a broader behavioral generalization than what the data actually show.

      Webster: Redundant means repetitive, occurring multiple times.

      (29) Line 612: At the very same sites, the stone artifactual assemblages, as well as the site dimensions, are substantially larger than those documented in the Bed I Oldowan sites (Diez-Martín et al., 2024, 2017, 2014, 2009).

      The placement and logic of this comparison are unclear. The discussion moves from Middle Pleistocene Neumark-Nord to early Pleistocene Olduvai sites, then to Bed I Oldowan contexts without clearly signaling the temporal or geographic transitions. If the intent is to contrast Acheulean vs. Oldowan site scale or organization, that connection needs to be made explicit. As written, it reads as a disjointed shift rather than a continuation of the argument.

      We disagree. Here, we finalize by bringing in some more recent assemblages where hominin agency is not in question.

      (30) Line 616: Here, we have reported a significant change in hominin foraging behaviors during Bed I and Bed II times, roughly coinciding with the replacement of Oldowan industries by Acheulian tool kits -although during Bed II, both industries co-existed for a substantial amount of time (Domínguez-Rodrigo et al., 2023; Uribelarrea et al., 2019, 2017).

      This section should be restructured for flow. The reference to behavioral change during Bed I-II and the overlap of Oldowan and Acheulean industries is important, but feels buried after a long detour. Consider moving this earlier or rephrasing so the main conclusion (behavioral change across Beds I-II) is clearly stated first, followed by supporting examples.

      It is not within the scope of this work and is properly described in the references mentioned.

      (31) Line 620: The evidence presented here, together with that documented by de la Torre et al. (2025), represents the most geographically extensive documentation of repeated access to proboscidean and other megafaunal remains at a single fossil locality.

      The phrase "most geographically extensive documentation of repeated access" overstates what has been demonstrated. The evidence presented is site-specific and does not justify such a broad superlative. This should be toned down or supported with comparative quantitative data.

      We disagree. There is no other example where such an abundant record of green-broken elements from megafauna is documented. Neumark-Nord is more similar because it shows extensive evidence of butchery, but not so much about degreasing.

      (32) Line 623: The transition from Oldowan sites, where lithic and archaeofaunal assemblages are typically concentrated within 30-40 m2 clusters, to Acheulean sites that span hundreds or even over 1000 m2 (as in BK), with distinct internal spatial organization and redundancy in space use across multiple archaeological layers spanning meters of stratigraphic sequence (Domínguez-Rodrigo et al., 2014a, 2009b; Organista et al., 2017), reflects significant behavioral and technological shifts.

      This sentence about site size and spatial organization repeats earlier claims without adding new insight. If it's meant as a synthesis, it should explicitly say how the spatial expansion relates to changes in behavior or mobility, not just describe the difference.

      In the Conclusion section these correlations have been explained in more detail to add some causation.

      (33) Line 628: This pattern likely signifies critical innovations in human evolution, coinciding with major anatomical and physiological transformations in early hominins (Dembitzer et al., 2022; Domínguez-Rodrigo et al., 2021, 2012).

      The conclusion that this "signifies critical innovations in human evolution" is too sweeping, given the data presented. It introduces physiological and anatomical transformation without connecting it to any evidence in this paper. Either cite the relevant findings or limit the claim to behavioral implications.

      The references cited elaboration in extension this. The revised version of the Conclusion section also elaborates on this.

      Overall, the conclusions section reads as a loosely connected set of assertions rather than a focused synthesis. It introduces new interpretations and terminology not supported or developed earlier in the paper, and the argument jumps across temporal and geographic scales without clear transitions. The discussion should be restructured to summarize key results, clarify the scope of interpretation, and avoid speculative or overstated claims about evolutionary significance.

      We have done so, supported by the references used in addition to extending some of the arguments

      (34) Line 639: The systematic excavation of the stratigraphic layers involved a small crew.

      This sentence is not necessary.

      No comment

      (35) Line 643: The orientation and inclination of the artifacts were recorded using a compass and an inclinometer, respectively.

      What were these measurements used for (e.g., post-depositional movement analysis, spatial patterning)? A short note on the purpose would make this more meaningful.

      Fabric analysis has been added to the revised version.

      (36) Line 659: Restoration of the EAK elephant bones

      This section could be streamlined and clarified. It includes procedural detail that doesn't contribute to scientific replicability (e.g., the texture of gauze, number of consolidant applications), while omitting some key information (such as how restoration may have affected analytical results). It also contains interpretive comments ("most of the assemblage has been successfully studied") that don't belong in Methods.

      No comment

      (37) Line 689: In the field laboratory, cleaning of the bone remains was carried out, along with adhesion of fragments and their consolidation when necessary.

      Clarify whether cleaning or adhesion treatments might obscure or alter bone surface modifications, as this has analytical implications.

      These protocols do not impact bone like that anymore.

      (38) Line 711: (b) Percussion Tools - Includes hammerstones or cobbles exhibiting diagnostic battering, pitting, and/or impact scars consistent with percussive activities.

      Define how diagnostic features (battering, pitting) were identified - visual inspection, magnification, or quantitative criteria?

      Both macro and microscopically

      (39) Line 734: We conducted the analysis in three different ways after selecting the spatial window, i.e., the analysed excavated area (52.56 m2).

      Clarify why the 52.56 m<sup>2</sup> spatial window was chosen. Was this the total excavated area or a selected portion?

      It was what was left of the elephant accumulation after erosion.

      (40) Line 728: The spatial statistical analyses of EAK.

      Adding one or two sentences at the start explaining the analytical objective, such as testing spatial association between faunal and lithic materials, would help readers understand how each analysis relates to the broader research questions.

      This is well explained in the main text

      (41) Line 782: An intensive survey seeking stratigraphically-associated megafaunal bones was carried out in the months of June 2023 and 2024.

      It would help to specify whether the same areas were resurveyed in both field seasons or if different zones were covered each year. This information is important for understanding sampling consistency and potential spatial bias.

      Both areas were surveyed in both field seasons. We were very consistent.

      (42) Line 787: We focused on proboscidean bones and used hippopotamus bones, some of the most abundant in the megafaunal fossils, as a spatial control.

      Clarify how the hippopotamus remains functional as a "spatial control." Are they used as a proxy for water-associated taxa to test habitat patterning, or as a baseline for comparing carcass distribution? The meaning of "control" in this context is ambiguous.

      As a proxy for megafaunal distribution given their greater abundance over any other megafaunal taxa.

      (43) Line 789: Stratigraphic association was carried out by direct observation of the geological context and with the presence of a Quaternary geologist during the whole survey.

      This is good methodological practice, but it would be helpful to describe how stratigraphic boundaries were identified in the field (for example, by reference to tuffs or marker beds). That information would make the geological framework more replicable.

      This is basic geological work. Of course, both tuffs and marker beds were followed.

      (44) Line 791: When fossils found were ambiguously associated with specific strata, these were excluded from the present analysis.

      You might specify what proportion of the total finds were excluded due to uncertain stratigraphic association. Reporting this would indicate the strength of the stratigraphic control.

      This was not quantified but it was a very small amount compared to those whose stratigraphic provenience was certain.

      (45) Line 799: The goals of this survey were: a) collect a spatial sample of proboscidean and megafaunal bones enabling us to understand if carcasses on the Olduvai paleolandscapes were randomly deposited or associated to specific habitats.

      You might clarify how randomness or habitat association was tested.

      Randomness was tested spatially and comparing density according to ecotone. Same for habitat association.

      (46) The Methods section provides detailed information about excavation, restoration, and spatial analyses but omits critical details about the zooarchaeological and taphonomic procedures. There is no explanation of how faunal remains were analyzed once recovered, including how cut marks, percussion marks, or green bone fractures were identified or what magnification or diagnostic criteria were used. The authors also do not specify the analytical unit used for faunal quantification (e.g., NISP, MNI, MNE, or other), making it unclear how specimen counts were generated for spatial or taphonomic analyses. Even if these details are provided in the Supplementary Information, the main text should include at least a concise summary describing the analytical framework, the criteria for identifying surface modifications and fracture morphology, and the quantification system employed. This information is essential for transparency, replicability, and proper evaluation of the behavioral interpretations.

      See reply above. There is a new subsection on taphonomic methods now.

      Supplementary information:

      (47) The Supplementary Information includes a large number of green-broken proboscidean specimens from other Olduvai localities (BK, LAS, SC, FLK West), but it is never explained why these are shown or how they relate to the EAK study. The main analysis focuses entirely on the EAK elephant, including so much unrelated material without any stated purpose, which makes the supplement confusing. If these examples are meant only to illustrate the appearance of green fractures, that should be stated. Otherwise, the extensive inclusion of non-EAK material gives the impression that they were part of the analyzed assemblage when they were not.

      This is stated in the opening paragraph to the section.

      (48) Line 96: A small collection of green-broken elephant bones was retrieved from the lower and upper Bed II units.

      It would help to clarify whether these specimens are part of the EAK assemblage or derive from other Bed II localities. As written, it is not clear whether this description refers to material analyzed in the main text or to comparative examples shown only in the Supplementary Information.

      No, EAK only occupies the lower Bed II section. They belong in the Bed II paleolandscape units.

      (49) Line 97: One of them, a proximal femoral shaft found within the LAS unit, has all the traces of having been used as a tool (Figure 6).

      This says the bone tool in Figure 6 is from LAS, but the main text caption identifies it as from EAK. If I am not mistaken, EAK is a site at the base of Bed II, and LAS is a separate stratigraphic unit higher in the sequence, so the authors should clarify which is correct.

      Our mistake. It provenience is from LAS in the vicinity of EAK.

      (50) Line 186: Figure S20. Example of other megafaunal long bone shafts showing green breaks.

      Not cited in text or SI narrative. No indication where these bones come from or why they are relevant.

      It appears justified in the revised version.

      (51) Line 474: Figure S28-S30. Hyena-ravaged giraffe bones from Chobe (Botswana).

      These figures are not discussed in the text or SI, and their relevance to the study is unclear. The authors should explain why these modern comparative examples were included and how they inform interpretations of the Olduvai assemblages.

      It appears justified in the revised version.

      (52) Line 498: Figure S31. Bos/Bison bone from Bois Roche (France).

      This figure is not mentioned in the text or Supplementary Information. The authors should specify why this specimen is shown and how it contributes to the study's taphonomic or behavioral comparisons.

      It appears justified in the revised version.

      (53) Line 504: Figure S32. Miocene Gomphotherium femur from Spain.

      This figure is never referenced in the paper. The authors should clarify the purpose of including a Miocene specimen from outside Africa and explain what it adds to the interpretation of Bed II material.

      It appears justified in the revised version.

      (54) Line 508: Figure S33. Elephant femoral shaft from BK (Olduvai).

      This figure appears to show comparative material but is not cited or discussed in the text. The authors should explain why the BK material is presented here and how it relates to EAK or the broader analysis.

      There are two figures labeled S33.

      It appears justified in the revised version.

      (55) Line 515: Figure S33. Tibia fragment from a large medium-sized bovid displaying multiple overlapping scars on both breakage planes inflicted by carnivore damage.

      Because this figure repeats the S33 label and is not cited or explained in the text, it is unclear why this specimen is included or how it contributes to the study. The authors should correct the duplicate numbering and clarify the purpose of this figure.

      It appears justified in the revised version.

      (56) Line 522: Same specimen as shown in Figure S30, viewed on its medial side.

      This is not the same bone as S30. This figure is not discussed in the text or Supplementary Information. The authors should clarify why it is included and how it relates to the rest of the analysis.

      It appears justified in the revised version.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper focuses on understanding how covalent inhibitors of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma (PPARg) show improved inverse agonist activities. This work is important because PPARg plays essential roles in metabolic regulation, insulin sensitization, and adipogenesis. Like other nuclear receptors, PPARg, is a ligand-responsive transcriptional regulator. Its important role, coupled with its ligand-sensitive transcriptional activities, makes it an attractive therapeutic target for diabetes, inflammation, fibrosis, and cancer. Traditional non-covalent ligands like thiazolininediones (TZDs) show clinical benefit in metabolic diseases, but utility is limited by off-target effects and transient receptor engagement. In previous studies, the authors characterized and developed covalent PPARg inhibitors with improved inverse agonist activities. They also showed that these molecules engage unique PPARg ligand binding domain (LBD) conformations whereby the c-terminal helix 12 penetrates into the orthosteric binding pocket to stabilize a repressive state. In the nuclear receptor superclass of proteins, helix 12 is an allosteric switch that governs pharmacologic responses, and this new conformation was highly novel. In this study, the authors did a more thorough analysis of how two covalent inhibitors, SR33065 and SR36708 influence the structural dynamics of PPARg LBD.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors employed a compelling integrated biochemical and biophysical approach.

      (2) The cobinding studies are unique for the field of nuclear receptor structural biology, and I'm not aware of any similar structural mechanism described for this class of proteins.

      (3) Overall, the results support their conclusions.

      (4) The results open up exciting possibilities for the development of new ligands that exploit the potential bidirectional relationship between the covalent versus non-covalent ligands studied here.

      Weaknesses:

      All weaknesses were addressed by the Authors in revision.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews: 

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This paper focuses on understanding how covalent inhibitors of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma (PPARg) show improved inverse agonist activities. This work is important because PPARg plays essential roles in metabolic regulation, insulin sensitization, and adipogenesis. Like other nuclear receptors, PPARg, is a ligand-responsive transcriptional regulator. Its important role, coupled with its ligand-sensitive transcriptional activities, makes it an attractive therapeutic target for diabetes, inflammation, fibrosis, and cancer. Traditional non-covalent ligands like thiazolininediones (TZDs) show clinical benefit in metabolic diseases, but utility is limited by off-target effects and transient receptor engagement. In previous studies, the authors characterized and developed covalent PPARg inhibitors with improved inverse agonist activities. They also showed that these molecules engage unique PPARg ligand binding domain (LBD) conformations whereby the c-terminal helix 12 penetrates into the orthosteric binding pocket to stabilize a repressive state. In the nuclear receptor superclass of proteins, helix 12 is an allosteric switch that governs pharmacologic responses, and this new conformation was highly novel. In this study, the authors did a more thorough analysis of how two covalent inhibitors, SR33065 and SR36708 influence the structural dynamics of PPARg LBD. 

      Strengths: 

      (1) The authors employed a compelling integrated biochemical and biophysical approach.  

      (2) The cobinding studies are unique for the field of nuclear receptor structural biology, and I'm not aware of any similar structural mechanism described for this class of proteins.  

      (3) Overall, the results support their conclusions.  

      (4) The results open up exciting possibilities for the development of new ligands that exploit the potential bidirectional relationship between the covalent versus non-covalent ligands studied here. 

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) The major weakness in this work is that it is hard to appreciate what these shifting allosteric ensembles actually look like on the protein structure. Additional graphical representations would really help convey the exciting results of this study. 

      We thank the review for the comments. In response to the specific recommendations below, we added two new figures—Figure 1 and Figure 8 in this resubmission—that hopefully address the weakness identified by the reviewer.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      The authors use ligands (inverse agonists, partial agonists) for PPAR, and coactivators and corepressors, to investigate how ligands and cofactors interact in a complex manner to achieve functional outcomes (repressive vs. activating). 

      Strengths: 

      The data (mostly biophysical data) are compelling from well-designed experiments. Figures are clearly illustrated. The conclusions are supported by these compelling data. These results contribute to our fundamental understanding of the complex ligand-cofactor-receptor interactions. 

      Weaknesses: 

      This is not the weakness of this particular paper, but the general limitation in using simplified models to study a complex system. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comments. Breaking down a complex system into a simpler model system, when possible, provides a unique lens with which to probe systems with mechanistic insight. While simplified models may not always explain the complexity of systems in cells, for example, our recently published work showed that a simplified model system — biochemical assays using reconstituted PPARγ ligand-binding domain (LBD) protein and peptides derived from coregulator proteins (similar to the assays in this current work) and protein NMR structural biology studies using PPARγ LBD — can explain the activity of ligand-induced PPARγ activation and repression to a high degree (pearson/spearman correlation coefficients ~0.7-0.9):

      MacTavish BS, Zhu D, Shang J, Shao Q, He Y, Yang ZJ, Kamenecka TM, Kojetin DJ. Ligand efficacy shifts a nuclear receptor conformational ensemble between transcriptionally active and repressive states. Nat Commun. 2025 Feb 28;16(1):2065. doi: 10.1038/s41467-025-57325-4. PMID: 40021712; PMCID: PMC11871303.

      Recommendations for the authors

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) More set-up is needed in the results section. The first paragraph is unclear on what is new to this study versus what was done previously. Likewise, a brief description of the assays used and the meaning behind differences in signals would help the general reader along. 

      We modified the last paragraph of the introduction and first results section to hopefully better set the stage for what was done previously vs. what is new/recollected in this study. In our results section, we also include more description about what the assays measure.

      (2) Since this paper is building on previous work, additional figures are needed in the introduction and discussion. Graphical depictions of what was found in the first study on how these ligands uniquely influence PPARg LBD conformation. A new model/depiction in the discussion for what was learned and its context with the rest of the field. 

      Our revised manuscript includes a new Figure 1 describing the possible allosteric mechanism by which a covalent ligand inhibits binding of other non-covalent ligands that was inferred from our previous study; and a new Figure 8 with a model for what has been learned.

      (3) It is stated that the results shown are representative data for at least two biological replicates. However, I do not see the other replicates shown in the supplementary information. 

      We appreciate the Reviewer’s emphasis on data reproducibility and rigor. We confirm that the biochemical and cellular assay data presented are indeed representative of consistent findings observed across two or more biological replicates—and we show representative data in our figures but not the extensive replicate data in supplementary information consistent with standard practices.

      (4) Figure 1a could benefit from labels of antagonists, inverse agonist, etc., next to each chemical structure. Likewise, if any co-crystal or other models are available it would be helpful to include those for comparison. 

      We added the pharmacological labels to Figure 2a (old Figure 1a).

      (5) The figure legends don't seem to match up completely with the figures. For example, Figure 2b states that fitted Ki values +/- standard deviation. are stated in the legend, but it's shown as the log Ki. 

      We revised the figure legends to ensure they display the appropriate errors as reported from the data fitting.

      (6) EC50, IC50, Ki, and Kd values alongside reported errors and R2 values for the fits should be reported in a table. 

      Our revised manuscript now includes a Source Data file (Figure 5—source data 1.xlsx) of the data (n=2) plotted in Figure 5 (old Figure 4) so that readers can regenerate the plots and calculate the errors and R2 values if desired. Otherwise, fitted values and errors are reported in figures when fitting in Prism permitted and reported errors; when Prism was unable to fit data or fit the error, n.d. (not determined) is specified.

      (7) Statistical analysis is missing in some places, for example, Figure 1b. 

      We revised Figure 2b (old Figure 1b) to include statistical testing.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      I suggest that the authors discuss the following points to broaden the significance of the results: 

      (1) The two partial agonists MRL24 and nTZDpa) are "partial" in the coactivator and corepressor recruitment assays, but are "complete" in the TR-FRET ligand displacement assay (Figure 2). Please explain that a partial agonist is defined based on the functional outcome (cofactor recruitment in this study) but not binding affinity/efficacy. 

      We added the following sentence to describe the partial agonist activity of these compounds: “These high affinity ligands are partial agonists as defined on their functional outcome in coregulator recruitment and cellular transcription; i.e., they are less efficacious than full agonists at recruiting peptides derived from coactivator proteins in biochemical assays (Chrisman et al., 2018; Shang et al., 2019; Shang and Kojetin, 2024) and increasing PPARγ-mediated transcription (Acton et al., 2005; Berger et al., 2003).“

      (2) Will the discovery reported here be broadly applicable? 

      (a) Applicable if other partial agonists and inhibitors are used? 

      (b) Applicable if different coactivators/corepressors, or different segments of the same cofactor, are used?

      (c) Applicable to other NRs (their AF-2 are similar but with sequence variation)?

      (d) The term "allosteric" might mean different things to different people - many readers might think that it means a "distal and unrelated" binding pocket. It might be helpful to point out that in this study, the allosteric site is actually "proximal and related". 

      We expanded our introduction and/or discussion sections to expand upon these concepts; specific answers as follows:

      (a) Orthosteric partial agonists?—yes, because helix 12 would clash with an orthosteiric ligand; other covalent inhibitors?—it depends on whether the covalent inhibitor stabilizes helix 12 in the orthosteric pocket.

      (b) yes with some nuanced exceptions where certain segments of the same coregulator protein bind with high affinity and others apparently do not bind or bind with low affinity

      (c) it is not clear yet if other NRs share a similar ligand-induced conformational ensemble to PPARγ

      (d) we addressed this point in the 4th paragraph of the introduction “...the non-covalent ligand binding event we previously described at the alternate/allosteric site, which is proximal to the orthosteric ligand-binding pocket, …”

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study aims to explore how different forms of "fragile nucleosomes" facilitate RNA Polymerase II (Pol II) transcription along gene bodies in human cells. The authors propose that pan-acetylated, pan-phosphorylated, tailless, and combined acetylated/phosphorylated nucleosomes represent distinct fragile states that enable efficient transcription elongation. Using CUT&Tag-seq, RNA-seq, and DRB inhibition assays in HEK293T cells, they report a genome-wide correlation between histone pan-acetylation/phosphorylation and active Pol II occupancy, concluding that these modifications are essential for Pol II elongation.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript tackles an important and long-standing question about how Pol II overcomes nucleosomal barriers during transcription.

      (2) The use of genome-wide CUT&Tag-seq for multiple histone marks (H3K9ac, H4K12ac, H3S10ph, H4S1ph) alongside active Pol II mapping provides a valuable dataset for the community.

      (3) The integration of inhibition (DRB) and recovery experiments offers insight into the coupling between Pol II activity and chromatin modifications.

      (4) The concept of "fragile nucleosomes" as a unifying framework is potentially appealing and could stimulate further mechanistic studies.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Misrepresentation of prior literature

      The introduction incorrectly describes findings from Bintu et al., 2012. The cited work demonstrated that pan-acetylated or tailless nucleosomes reduce the nucleosomal barrier for Pol II passage, rather than showing no improvement. This misstatement undermines the rationale for the current study and should be corrected to accurately reflect prior evidence.

      (2) Incorrect statement regarding hexasome fragility

      The authors claim that hexasome nucleosomes "are not fragile," citing older in vitro work. However, recent studies clearly showed that hexasomes exist in cells (e.g., PMID 35597239) and that they markedly reduce the barrier to Pol II (e.g., PMID 40412388). These studies need to be acknowledged and discussed.

      (3) Inaccurate mechanistic interpretation of DRB

      The Results section states that DRB causes a "complete shutdown of transcription initiation (Ser5-CTD phosphorylation)." DRB is primarily a CDK9 inhibitor that blocks Pol II release from promoter-proximal pausing. While recent work (PMID: 40315851) suggests that CDK9 can contribute to CTD Ser5/Ser2 di-phosphorylation, the manuscript's claim of initiation shutdown by DRB should be revised to better align with the literature. The data in Figure 4A indicate that 1 µM DRB fully inhibits Pol II activity, yet much higher concentrations (10-100×) are needed to alter H3K9ac and H4K12ac levels. The authors should address this discrepancy by discussing the differential sensitivities of CTD phosphorylation versus histone modification turnover.

      (4) Insufficient resolution of genome-wide correlations

      Figure 1 presents only low-resolution maps, which are insufficient to determine whether pan-acetylation and pan-phosphorylation correlate with Pol II at promoters or gene bodies. The authors should provide normalized metagene plots (from TSS to TTS) across different subgroups to visualize modification patterns at higher resolution. In addition, the genome-wide distribution of another histone PTM with a different localization pattern should be included as a negative control.

      (5) Conceptual framing

      The manuscript frequently extrapolates correlative genome-wide data to mechanistic conclusions (e.g., that pan-acetylation/phosphorylation "generate" fragile nucleosomes). Without direct biochemical or structural evidence. Such causality statements should be toned down.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, the authors use various genomics approaches to examine nucleosome acetylation, phosphorylation, and PolII-CTD phosphorylation marks. The results are synthesized into a hypothesis that 'fragile' nucleosomes are associated with active regions of PolII transcription.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript contains a lot of genome-wide analyses of histone acetylation, histone phosphorylation, and PolII-CTD phosphorylation.

      Weaknesses:

      This reviewer's main research expertise is in the in vitro study of transcription and its regulation in purified, reconstituted systems. I am not an expert at the genomics approaches and their interpretation, and overall, I had a very hard time understanding and interpreting the data that are presented in this manuscript. I believe this is due to a problem with the manuscript, in that the presentation of the data is not explained in a way that's understandable and interpretable to a non-expert. For example:

      (1) Figure 1 shows genome-wide distributions of H3K9ac, H4K12ac, Ser2ph-PolII, mRNA, H3S10ph, and H4S1ph, but does not demonstrate correlations/coupling - it is not clear from these data that pan-acetylation and pan-phosphorylation are coupled with Pol II transcription.

      (2) Figure 2 - It's not clear to me what Figure 2 is supposed to be showing.

      (A) Needs better explanation - what is the meaning of the labels at the top of the gel lanes?

      (B) This reviewer is not familiar with this technique, its visualization, or its interpretation - more explanation is needed. What is the meaning of the quantitation graphs shown at the top? How were these calculated (what is on the y-axis)?

      (3) To my knowledge, the initial observation of DRB effects on RNA synthesis also concluded that DRB inhibited initiation of RNA chains (pmid:982026) - this needs to be acknowledged.

      (4) Again, Figures 4B, 4C, 5, and 6 are very difficult to understand - what is shown in these heat maps, and what is shown in the quantitation graphs on top?

    3. Author response:

      Public Reviews: 

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This study aims to explore how different forms of "fragile nucleosomes" facilitate RNA Polymerase II (Pol II) transcription along gene bodies in human cells. The authors propose that pan-acetylated, pan-phosphorylated, tailless, and combined acetylated/phosphorylated nucleosomes represent distinct fragile states that enable eFicient transcription elongation. Using CUT&Tagseq, RNA-seq, and DRB inhibition assays in HEK293T cells, they report a genome-wide correlation between histone pan-acetylation/phosphorylation and active Pol II occupancy, concluding that these modifications are essential for Pol II elongation. 

      Strengths: 

      (1) The manuscript tackles an important and long-standing question about how Pol II overcomes nucleosomal barriers during transcription. 

      (2) The use of genome-wide CUT&Tag-seq for multiple histone marks (H3K9ac, H4K12ac, H3S10ph, H4S1ph) alongside active Pol II mapping provides a valuable dataset for the community. 

      (3) The integration of inhibition (DRB) and recovery experiments oFers insight into the coupling between Pol II activity and chromatin modifications. 

      (4) The concept of "fragile nucleosomes" as a unifying framework is potentially appealing and could stimulate further mechanistic studies. 

      Really appreciate the positive or affirmative comments from the reviewer.

      Weaknesses: 

      (1)  Misrepresentation of prior literature 

      The introduction incorrectly describes findings from Bintu et al., 2012. The cited work demonstrated that pan-acetylated or tailless nucleosomes reduce the nucleosomal barrier for Pol II passage, rather than showing no improvement. This misstatement undermines the rationale for the current study and should be corrected to accurately reflect prior evidence. 

      What we said is according to the original report in the publication (Bintu et al., Cell, 2012). Here is the citation from the report:

      Page 739,(Bintu, L. et al., Cell, 2012)(PMID: 23141536)

      “Overall transcription through tailless and acetylated nucleosomes is slightly faster than through unmodified nucleosomes (Figure 1C), with crossing times that are generally under 1 min (39.5 ± 5.7 and 45.3 ± 7.6 s, respectively). Both the removal and acetylation of the tails increase eFiciency of NPS passage:71% for tailless nucleosomes and 63% for acetylated nucleosomes (Figures 1C and S1), in agreement with results obtained using bulk assays of transcription (Ujva´ ri et al., 2008).”

      We will cite this original sentence in our revision.

      (2) Incorrect statement regarding hexasome fragility

      The authors claim that hexasome nucleosomes "are not fragile," citing older in vitro work. However, recent studies clearly showed that hexasomes exist in cells (e.g., PMID 35597239) and that they markedly reduce the barrier to Pol II (e.g., PMID 40412388). These studies need to be acknowledged and discussed. 

      “hexasome” was introduced in the transcription field four decades ago. Later, several groups claimed that “hexasome” is fragile and could be generated in transcription elongation of Pol II. However, their original definition was based on the detection of ~100 bps DNA fragments (MNase resistant) in vivo by Micrococcal nuclease sequencing (MNase-seq), which is the right length to wrap up one hexasome histone subunit (two H3/4 and one H2A/2B) to form the sub-nucleosome of a hexasome. As we should all agree that acetylation or phosphorylation of the tails of histone nucleosomes will lead to the compromised interaction between DNA and histone subunits, which could lead to the intact naïve nucleosome being fragile and easy to disassemble, and easy to access by MNase. Fragile nucleosomes lead to better accessibility of MNase to DNA that wraps around the histone octamer, producing shorter DNA fragments (~100 bps instead of ~140 bps). In this regard, we believe that these ~100 bps fragments are the products of fragile nucleosomes (fragile nucleosome --> hexasome), instead of the other way around (hexasome --> fragile). 

      Actually, two early reports from Dr. David J.  Clark’s group from NIH raised questions about the existence of hexasomes in vivo (PMID: 28157509) (PMID: 25348398).

      From the report of PMID:35597239, depletion of INO80 leads to the reduction of “hexasome” for a group of genes, and the distribution of both “nucleosomes” and “hexasomes” with the gene bodies gets fuzzier (less signal to noise). In a recent theoretical model (PMID: 41425263), the corresponding PI found that chromatin remodelers could act as drivers of histone modification complexes to carry out different modifications along gene bodies. The PI found that INO80 could drive NuA3 (a H3 acetyltransferase) to carry out pan-acetylation of H3 and possibly H2B as well in the later runs of transcription of Pol II for a group of genes (SAGA-dependent). It suggests that the depletion of INO80 will affect (reduce) the pan-acetylation of nucleosomes, which leads to the drop of pan-acetylated fragile nucleosomes, subsequently the drop of “hexasomes”. This explains why depletion of INO80 leads to the fuzzier results of either nucleosomes or “hexasomes” in PMID: 35597239. The result of PMID: 35597239 could be a strong piece of evidence to support the model proposed by the corresponding PI (PMID: 41425263).

      From a recent report: PMID:40412388, the authors claimed that FACT could bind to nucleosomes to generate “hexasomes”, which are fragile for Pol II to overcome the resistance of nucleosomes. It was well established that FACT enhances the processivity of Pol II in vivo via its chaperonin property. However, the exact working mechanism of FACT still remains ambiguous. A report from Dr. Cramer’s group showed that FACT enhances the elongation of regular genes but works just opposite for pausing-regulated genes (PMID: 38810649). An excellent review by Drs. Tim Formosa and Fred Winston showed that FACT is not required for the survival of a group of differentiated cells (PMID: 33104782), suggesting that FACT is not always required for transcription. It is quite tricky to generate naïve hexasomes in vitro according to early reports from the late Dr. Widom’s group. Most importantly, the new data (the speed of Pol II, the best one on bare DNA is ~27 bps/s) from the report of PMID: 40412388, which is much slower than the speed of Pol II in vivo: ~2.5 kbs/min or ~40 bps/s. From our recovering experiments (Fig. 4C, as mentioned by reviewer #3), in 20 minutes (the period between 10 minutes and 30 minutes, due to the property of CUT-&TAG-seq, of which Pol II still active after cells are collected, there is a big delay of complete stop of Pol II during the procedure of CUT&TAG experiments, so the first period of time does not actually reflect the speed of Pol II, which is ~5 kb/min), all Pol IIs move at a uniform speed of ~2.5 kbs/min in vivo. Interestingly, a recent report from Dr. Shixin Liu’s group (PMID: 41310264) showed that adding SPT4/5 to the transcription system with bare DNA (in vitro), the speed of Pol II reaches ~2.5kbs/min, exactly the same one as we derived in vivo. Similar to the original report (PMID: 23141536), the current report of PMID:40412388 does not mimic the conditions in vivo exactly.

      There is an urgent need for a revisit of the current definition of “hexasome”, which is claimed to be fragile and could be generated during the elongation of Pol II in vivo. MNase is an enzyme that only works when the substrate is accessible. In inactive regions of the genome, due to the tight packing of chromatin, MNase is not accessible to individual nucleosomes within the bodies of a gene or upstream of promoters, which is why we only see phased/spacing or clear distribution of nucleosomes at the transcription start sites, but it becomes fuzzy downstream or upstream of promoters. On the other hand, for fragile nucleosomes, the accessibility to MNase should increase dramatically, which leads to the ~100 bps fragments. Based on the uniform rate (2.5 kbs/min) of Pol II for all genes derived from human 293T cells and the similar rate (2.5 kbs/min) of Pol II on bare DNA in vitro, it is unlikely for Pol II to pause in the middle of nucleosomes to generate “hexasomes” to continue during elongation along gene bodies. Similar to RNAPs in bacterial (no nucleosomes) and Archaea (tailless nucleosomes), there should be no resistance when Pol IIs transcribe along all fragile nucleosomes within gene bodies in all eukaryotes, as we characterized in this manuscript. 

      (3)  Inaccurate mechanistic interpretation of DRB 

      The Results section states that DRB causes a "complete shutdown of transcription initiation (Ser5-CTD phosphorylation)." DRB is primarily a CDK9 inhibitor that blocks Pol II release from promoter-proximal pausing. While recent work (PMID: 40315851) suggests that CDK9 can contribute to CTD Ser5/Ser2 di-phosphorylation, the manuscript's claim of initiation shutdown by DRB should be revised to better align with the literature. The data in Figure 4A indicate that 1 M DRB fully inhibits Pol II activity, yet much higher concentrations (10-100 ) are needed to alter H3K9ac and H4K12ac levels. The authors should address this discrepancy by discussing the differential sensitivities of CTD phosphorylation versus histone modification turnover. 

      Yes, it was reported that DRB is also an inhibitor of CDK9. However, if the reviewer agrees with us and the current view in the field, the phosphorylation of Ser5-CTD of Pol II is the initiation of transcription for all Pol II-regulated genes in eukaryotes. CDK9 is only required to work on the already phosphorylated Ser5-CTD of Pol II to release the paused Pol II, which only happens in metazoans. From a series of works by us and others: CDK9 is unique in metazoans, required only for the pausing-regulated genes but not for regular genes. We found that CDK9 works on initiated Pol II (Ser5-CTD phosphorylated Pol II) and generates a unique phosphorylation pattern on CTD of Pol II (Ser2ph-Ser2ph-Ser5ph-CTD of Pol II), which is required to recruit JMJD5 (via CID domain) to generate a tailless nucleosome at +1 from TSS to release paused Pol II (PMID: 32747552). Interestingly, the report from Dr. Jesper Svejstrup’s group (PMID: 40315851) showed that CDK9 could generate a unique phosphorylation pattern (Ser2ph-Ser5ph-CTD of Pol II), which is not responsive to the popular 3E10 antibody that recognizes the single Ser2phCTD of Pol II.  This interesting result is consistent with our early report showing the unique phosphorylation pattern (Ser2ph-Ser2ph-Ser5ph-CTD of Pol II) is specifically generated by CDK9 in animals, which is not recognized by 3E10 either (PMID: 32747552). Actually, an early report from Dr. Dick Eick’s group (PMID: 26799765) showed the difference in the phosphorylation pattern of the CTD of Pol II between animal cells and yeast cells.  We have characterized how CDK9 is released from 7SK snRNP and recruited onto paused Pol II via the coupling of JMJD6 and BRD4 (PMID: 32048991), which was published on eLIFE. It is well established that CDK9 works after CDK7 or CDK8. From our PRO-seq data (Fig. 3) and CUT&TAG-seq data of active Pol II (Fig. 4), adding DRB completely shuts down all genes via inhibiting the initiation of Pol II (generation of Ser5ph-CTD of Pol II). Due to the uniqueness of CDK9 only in metazoans, it is not required for the activation of CDK12 or CDK13 (they are orthologs of CTK1 in yeast), as we demonstrated recently (PMID: 41377501). Instead, we found that CDK11/10 acts as the ortholog of Bur1 kinase from yeast, is essential for the phosphorylation of Spt5, the link of CTD of Pol II, and CDK12 (PMID: 41377501). 

      (4) Insufficient resolution of genome-wide correlations 

      Figure 1 presents only low-resolution maps, which are Insufficient o determine whether pan-acetylation and pan-phosphorylation correlate with Pol II at promoters or gene bodies. The authors should provide normalized metagene plots (from TSS to TTS) across different subgroups to visualize modification patterns at higher resolution. In addition, the genome-wide distribution of another histone PTM with a diFerent localization pattern should be included as a negative control. 

      A popular view in the field is that the majority of genomes are inactive since they do not contain coding RNAs, which are responsible for ~20,000 protein candidates characterized in animals. However, our genomewide characterization using the four histone modification marks, active Pol II, and RNA-seq, shows a different story. Figure 1 shows that most of the human genome of HEK293T is active in producing not only protein-coding RNAs but also non-coding RNAs (the majority of them). We believe that Figure 1 could change our current view of the activity of the entire genome, and should be of great interest to general readers as well as researchers on genomics. Furthermore, it is a basis for Figure 2, which is a zoom-in of Figure 1.  

      (5) Conceptual framing 

      The manuscript frequently extrapolates correlative genome-wide data to mechanistic conclusions (e.g., that pan-acetylation/phosphorylation "generate" fragile nucleosomes). Without direct biochemical or structural evidence. Such causality statements should be toned down.  

      The reviewer is right, we should tone down the strong sentences. However, we believe that our data is strong enough to derive the general conclusion. The reviewer may agree with us that the entire field of transcription and epigenetics has been stagnant in recent decades, but there is an urgent need for fresh ideas to change the current situation. Our novel discoveries, for sure, additional supporting data are needed, should open up a brand new avenue for people to explore. We believe that a new era of transcription will emerge based on our novel discoveries. We hope that this manuscript will attract more people to these topics. As Reviewer #3 pointed out, this story establishes the connection between transcription and epigenetics in the field. 

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      In this manuscript, the authors use various genomics approaches to examine nucleosome acetylation, phosphorylation, and PolII-CTD phosphorylation marks. The results are synthesized into a hypothesis that 'fragile' nucleosomes are associated with active regions of PolII transcription. 

      Strengths: 

      The manuscript contains a lot of genome-wide analyses of histone acetylation, histone phosphorylation, and PolII-CTD phosphorylation. 

      Weaknesses: 

      This reviewer's main research expertise is in the in vitro study of transcription and its regulation in purified, reconstituted systems. 

      Actually, the pioneering work of the establishment of in vitro transcription assays at Dr. Robert Roeder’s group led to numerous groundbreaking discoveries in the transcription field. The contributions of in vitro work in the transcription field are the key for us to explore the complexity of transcription in eukaryotes in the early times and remain important currently.

      I am not an expert at the genomics approaches and their interpretation, and overall, I had a very hard time understanding and interpreting the data that are presented in this manuscript.  I believe this is due to a problem with the manuscript, in that the presentation of the data is not explained in a way that's understandable and interpretable to a non-expert.

      Thanks for your suggestions. You are right, we have problems expressing our ideas clearly in this manuscript, which could confuse. We will make modifications accordingly per your suggestions.

      For example: 

      (1) Figure 1 shows genome-wide distributions of H3K9ac, H4K12ac, Ser2phPolII, mRNA, H3S10ph, and H4S1ph, but does not demonstrate correlations/coupling - it is not clear from these data that pan-acetylation and pan-phosphorylation are coupled with Pol II transcription. 

      Figure 1 shows the overall distribution of the four major histone modifications, active Pol II, and mRNA genome-wide in human HEK293T cells. It tells general readers that the entire genome is quite active and far more than people predicted that most of the genome is inactive, since just a small portion of the genome expresses coding RNAs (~20,000 in animals). Figure 1 shows that the majority of the genome is active and expresses not only coded mRNA but also non-coding RNAs. After all, it is the basis of Figure 2, which is a zoom-in of Figure 1. However, it is beyond the scope of this manuscript to discuss the non-coding RNAs. 

      (2) Figure 2 - It's not clear to me what Figure 2 is supposed to be showing. 

      (A) Needs better explanation - what is the meaning of the labels at the top of the gel lanes? 

      Figure 2 is a zoom-in for the individual gene, which shows how histone modifications are coupled with Pol II activity on the individual gene. We will give a more detailed explanation of the figure per the reviewer’s suggestions.

      (B) This reviewer is not familiar with this technique, its visualization, or its interpretation - more explanation is needed. What is the meaning of the quantitation graphs shown at the top? How were these calculated (what is on the y-axis)? 

      Good suggestions, we will do some modifications.

      (3) To my knowledge, the initial observation of DRB eFects on RNA synthesis also concluded that DRB inhibited initiation of RNA chains (pmid:982026) - this needs to be acknowledged. 

      Thanks for the reference, which is the first report to show the DRB inhibits initiation of Pol II in vivo. We will cite it in the revision.  

      (4) Again, Figures 4B, 4C, 5, and 6 are very difficult to understand - what is shown in these heat maps, and what is shown in the quantitation graphs on top? 

      Thanks for the suggestions, we will give a more detailed description of the Figures.  

      Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      Li et al. investigated the prevalence of acetylated and phosphorylated histones (using H3K9ac, H4K12ac, H3S10ph & H4S1ph as representative examples) across the gene body of human HEK293T cells, as well as mapping elongating Pol II and mRNA. They found that histone acetylation and phosphorylation were dominant in gene bodies of actively transcribing genes. Genes with acetylation/phosphorylation restricted to the promoter region were also observed. Furthermore, they investigated and reported a correlation between histone modifications and Pol II activity, finding that inhibition of Pol II activity reduced acetylation/phosphorylation levels, while resuming Pol II activity restored them. The authors then proposed a model in which panacetylation or pan-phosphorylation of histones generates fragile nucleosomes; the first round of transcription is accompanied by panacetylation, while subsequent rounds are accompanied by panphosphorylation. 

      Strengths: 

      This study addresses a highly significant problem in gene regulation. The author provided riveting evidence that certain histone acetylation and/or phosphorylation within the gene body is correlated with Pol II transcription. The author furthermore made a compelling case that such transcriptionally correlated histone modification is dynamic and can be regulated by Pol II activity. This work has provided a clearer view of the connection between epigenetics and Pol II transcription. 

      Thanks for the insightful comments, which are exactly what we want to present in this manuscript. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The title of the manuscript, "Fragile nucleosomes are essential for RNA Polymerase II to transcribe in eukaryotes", suggests that fragile nucleosomes lead to transcription. While this study shows a correlation between histone modifications in gene bodies and transcription elongation, a causal relationship between the two has not been demonstrated. 

      Thanks for the suggestions. What we want to express is that the generation of fragile nucleosomes precedes transcription, or, more specifically, transcription elongation. The corresponding PI wrote a hypothetical model on how pan-acetylation is generated by the coupling of chromatin remodelers and acetyltransferase complexes along gene bodies, in which chromatin remodelers act as drivers to carry acetyltransferases along gene bodies to generate pan-acetylation of nucleosomes (PMID: 41425263). We have a series of work to show how “tailless nucleosomes” at +1 from transcription start sites are generated to release paused Pol II in metazoans (PMID: 28847961) (PMID: 29459673) (PMID: 32747552) (PMID: 32048991).   We still do not know how pan-phosphorylation along gene bodies is generated. It should be one of the focuses of our future research.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This study by Vitar et al. probes the molecular identity and functional specialization of pH-sensing channels in cerebrospinal fluid-contacting neurons (CSFcNs). Combining patch-clamp electrophysiology, laser-based local acidification, immunohistochemistry, and confocal imaging, the authors propose that PKD2L1 channels localized to the apical protrusion (ApPr) function as the predominant dual-mode pH sensor in these cells.

      The work establishes a compelling spatial-physiological link between channel localization and chemosensory behavior. The integration of optical and electrical approaches is technically strong, and the separation of phasic and sustained response modes offers a useful conceptual advance for understanding how CSF composition is monitored.

      Several aspects of data interpretation, however, require clarification or reanalysis-most notably the single-channel analyses (event counts, Po metrics, and mixed parameters), the statistical treatment, and the interpretation of purported "OFF currents." Additional issues include PKD2L1-TRPP3 nomenclature consistency, kinetic comparison with ASICs, and the physiological relevance of the extreme acidification paradigm. Addressing these points will substantially improve reproducibility and mechanistic depth.

      Overall, this is a scientifically important and technically sophisticated study that advances our understanding of CSF sensing, provided that the analytical and interpretative weaknesses are satisfactorily corrected.

      (1) The authors should re-analyze electrophysiological data, focusing on macroscopic currents rather than statistically unreliable Po calculations. Remove or revise the Po analysis, which currently conflates current amplitude and open probability.

      (2) PKD2L1-TRPP3 nomenclature should be clarified and all figure labels, legends, and text should use consistent terminology throughout.

      (3) The authors should reinterpret the so-called OFF currents as pH-dependent recovery or relaxation phenomena, not as distinct current species. Remove the term "OFF response" from the manuscript.

      (4) Evidence for physiological relevance should be provided, including data from milder acidification (pH 6.5-6.8) and, where appropriate, comparisons with ASIC-mediated currents to place PKD2L1 activity in context.

      (5) Terminology and data presentation should be unified, adopting consistent use of "predominant" (instead of "exclusive") and "sustained" (instead of "tonic"), and all statistical formats and units should be standardized.

      (6) The Discussion should be expanded to address potential Ca²⁺-dependent signaling mechanisms downstream of PKD2L1 activation and their possible roles in CSF flow regulation and central chemoreception.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Cerebrospinal fluid contacting neurons (CSF-cNs) are GABAergic cells surrounding the spinal cord central canal (CC). In mammals, their soma lies sub-ependymally, with a dendritic-like apical extension (AP) terminating as a bulb inside the CC.

      How this anatomy-soma and AP in distinct extracellular environments relate to their multimodal CSF-sensing function remains unclear.

      The authors confirm that in GATA3:GFP mice, where these cells are labeled, that CSFcNs exhibit prominent spontaneous electrical activity mediated by PKD2L1 (TRPP2) channels, non-selective cation channels with ~200 pS conductance modulated by protons and mechanical forces.

      They investigated PKD2L1 pH sensitivity and its effects on CSFcN excitability. They uncovered that PKD2L1 generates both phasic and tonic currents, bidirectionally modulated by pH with high sensitivity near physiological values.

      Combining electrophysiology (intact and isolated AP recordings) with elegant laser-photolysis, they show that functional PKD2L1 channels localize specifically to the apical extension (AP).

      This spatial segregation, coupled with PKD2L1's biophysical properties (high conductance, pH sensitivity) and the AP's unique features (very high input resistance), renders CSFcN excitability highly sensitive to PKD2L1 modulation. Their findings reveal how the AP's properties are optimised for its sensory role.

      Strengths:

      This is a very convincing demonstration using elegant and challenging approaches (uncaging, outside out patch of the AP) together to form a complete understanding of how these sensory cells can detect the changes of pH in the CSF so finely.

      Weaknesses:

      The following do not constitute weaknesses; rather, they are minor requests that this reviewer considers would complete this beautiful study.

      (1) It would be nice to quantify further the relation in spontaneous as well as in acidic or basic pH between the effects observed on channel opening and holding current: do they always vary together and in a linear way?

      (2) Since CSF-cNs also respond to changes in osmolarity (Orts Dell Immagine 2013) & mechanosensory stimulations in a PKD2L1 dependent manner (Sternberg NC 2018), it would be nice to test the same results whether the same results hold true on the role of PKD2L1 in AP for pressure application of changes in osmolarity.

      In mice, like in fish (Sternberg et al, NC 2018), we can observe throughout the figures that a large fraction of the channel activity occurs with partial and very fast openings of the PKD2L1 channel. I recommend the authors analyse the points below:<br /> a) To what extent do these partial openings of the channel contribute to the changes in holding current and resting potential?<br /> b) In the trace from the outside out AP, it looks like the partial transient openings are gone. Can the authors verify whether these partial openings are only present in somatic recordings?

      (3) Previous studies have observed expression of metabotropic Glutamate receptors in CSF-cNs (transcriptome from Prendergast et al CB 2023). The authors only used blockers for ionotropic glutamate receptors in their recordings: could it be that these metabotropic receptors influence the response to uncaging of MNI-Glu when glutamate is co-released with a proton?

      (4) In the outside out patch of the AP, PKD2L1 unitary currents appear rare. Could it be that the disruption in the cilium or underlying actin/myosin cytoskeleton drastically alter the open probability of the channel?

      (5) Could the authors use drugs against ASIC to specify which ASIC channels contribute to the pH response in the soma?

      (6) This is out of the scope of this study, but we did observe in fish a very rarely-opening channel in the PKD2L1KO mutant. I wonder if the authors have similar observations in the conditions where PKD2L1 is mainly in the closed state.

    3. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This study by Vitar et al. probes the molecular identity and functional specialization of pH-sensing channels in cerebrospinal fluid-contacting neurons (CSFcNs). Combining patch-clamp electrophysiology, laser-based local acidification, immunohistochemistry, and confocal imaging, the authors propose that PKD2L1 channels localized to the apical protrusion (ApPr) function as the predominant dual-mode pH sensor in these cells.

      The work establishes a compelling spatial-physiological link between channel localization and chemosensory behavior. The integration of optical and electrical approaches is technically strong, and the separation of phasic and sustained response modes offers a useful conceptual advance for understanding how CSF composition is monitored.

      Several aspects of data interpretation, however, require clarification or reanalysis-most notably the single-channel analyses (event counts, Po metrics, and mixed parameters), the statistical treatment, and the interpretation of purported "OFF currents." Additional issues include PKD2L1-TRPP3 nomenclature consistency, kinetic comparison with ASICs, and the physiological relevance of the extreme acidification paradigm. Addressing these points will substantially improve reproducibility and mechanistic depth.

      Overall, this is a scientifically important and technically sophisticated study that advances our understanding of CSF sensing, provided that the analytical and interpretative weaknesses are satisfactorily corrected.

      (1) The authors should re-analyze electrophysiological data, focusing on macroscopic currents rather than statistically unreliable Po calculations. Remove or revise the Po analysis, which currently conflates current amplitude and open probability.

      We agree with the reviewer that the Po analysis has strong limitations, particularly in experiments where the recording times are short, such as when extracellular pH is changed via photolysis (Figure 4D) or puff application (Figure 3Aa). To circumvent this problem and not rely solely on Po estimations, we used alternative methods, including an analysis of the total membrane charge (extensively used throughout the manuscript, as in Figures 3A and 4D) and an analysis of event latencies (Figure 4G). Nevertheless, single channel recordings contain information that is not included in the macroscopic current analysis. In the revised version, we intend to stress that the elementary current amplitude is conserved during manipulations such as pH changes, leaving the total number of channels (N) and the channel open probability (Po) as possible culprits for the current changes. Since these changes are rapid and reversible, it is likely that N remains constant while Po changes. To address the reviewer’s concern, we propose the following changes/reanalysis: (i) report in each condition the minimum N (based on the maximum number of simultaneously open channels; for example, in Figure 3Aa, the minimum N goes from 4-5 in control conditions to 1 during the puff of the pH 6.4 solution). Although imperfect, this method provides a tentative estimate of Po; (ii) report the fraction of time that the channels remain open; (iii) revise the text and figures to use the expression “apparent Po” instead of “Po”, acknowledging the limitations of the measurement in short recordings. We also acknowledge that some traces (Figure 3Aa, top) may appear confusing, as they seem to show macroscopic currents. We will modify these figures by including the amplitude histograms (as in Figure 1Bb) to clearly demonstrate that recordings from CSFcNs primarily reflect single-channel activity when challenged with pH changes.

      (2) PKD2L1-TRPP3 nomenclature should be clarified and all figure labels, legends, and text should use consistent terminology throughout.

      We agree with the reviewer that the nomenclature for the polycystin protein family is confusing. In this manuscript, we have followed the nomenclature  proposed in a recent comprehensive review on polycystin channels by Palomero, Larmore and DeCaen (Palomero et al. 2023), which refer to the channels by their gene names. As indicated in that review, the PKD2L1 channel corresponds to TRPP2 (previously known as TRPP3, see their Table 1). However, in another recent review on TRP channels,  the PKD2L1 channel is referred to as TRPP3 (Zhang et al. 2023). To prevent any ambiguity, we will remove references to the TRPP nomenclature from the text and exclusively use the PKD2L1 acronym.

      (3) The authors should reinterpret the so-called OFF currents as pH-dependent recovery or relaxation phenomena, not as distinct current species. Remove the term "OFF response" from the manuscript.

      Although largely used in the literature, we concur with the reviewer that the term “OFF response” is not very helpful from a biophysical perspective as it may imply the existence of a distinct current. Consequently, we will remove the terms “OFF response” and “OFF current” from the revised manuscript and replace them with the term “photolysis-evoked PKD2L1 current”. Furthermore, to improve the logical flow, we will condense the two sections (“The proton-induced current is an off-current” and “The off-current is mediated by the activation of PKD2L1 channels”) into a single, new section titled “The photolysis-induced current is mediated by PKD2L1 channels”. This consolidation will prevent the artificial separation of the description of this current. Finally, we will revise the discussion to better characterize this photolysis-evoked phenomenon as a recovery current.

      (4) Evidence for physiological relevance should be provided, including data from milder acidification (pH 6.5-6.8) and, where appropriate, comparisons with ASIC-mediated currents to place PKD2L1 activity in context.

      This point is partly addressed in Figure 3. The data indicate that  PKD2L1 channels are highly sensitive to pH variations within the physiological range. To strengthen this conclusion, we will add the EC50 values derived from the curve fittings to the figure. Regarding ASIC-mediated currents, one of our main conclusions is that ASICs are not present in the apical process (ApPr), as the effects of proton photolysis in the ApPr are not blocked by ASIC antagonists. Our results suggest that PKD2L1 channels are the exclusive pH sensitive channels in the ApPr. ASIC channels likely mediate acid sensitivity in the soma, although we have not investigated the latter in detail. We intend to modify the Discussion in order to provide a physiological framework linking channel activity with physiological and pathophysiological pH changes. 

      (5) Terminology and data presentation should be unified, adopting consistent use of "predominant" (instead of "exclusive") and "sustained" (instead of "tonic"), and all statistical formats and units should be standardized.

      Folllowing the reviewer’s suggestions, an exhaustive rephrasing will be performed to unify terminology, data presentation and correct the text.

      (6) The Discussion should be expanded to address potential Ca²⁺-dependent signaling mechanisms downstream of PKD2L1 activation and their possible roles in CSF flow regulation and central chemoreception.

      This is indeed a very interesting and currently unresolved point in the physiology of CSFcNs. Published data indicate that calcium influx through PKD2L1 channels is a key regulator of apical process (ApPr) physiology. These channels are calcium permeable yet are also inhibited by intracellular calcium (DeCaen et al. 2016). Additionally, ultrastructural data show that the ApPr is rich in mitochondria and tubulo-vesicular structures resembling the Golgi apparatus (Bruni et Reddy 1987; Bjugn et al. 1988; Nakamura et al. 2023), intracellular organelles critical for calcium homeostasis. Altogether, this evidence suggests that intra-ApPr calcium concentration must be finely regulated, both in space and time, for the ApPr to fulfill its physiological roles. Based on the existing literature, we can speculate that these calcium signals are decoded by several systems: (i) calcium may act as a second messenger, linking the activation of the multimodal PKD2L1 channels to changes in CSFcN excitability, which in turn regulates spinal neuronal networks controlling locomotor activity; (ii) calcium could initiate the neurosecretion of various molecules from the ApPr into the central canal, as proposed by the Wyart group in the zebrafish in the context of bacterial infections (Prendergast et al. 2023); (iii) calcium could activate the Hedgehog signaling pathway (as has been shown by Delling et al. 2013); iv) calcium could modulate CSF flow by modulating ependymal cells ciliary activity. Resolving these downstream pathways is essential to fully define the role of CSFcNs as integrators of cerebrospinal fluid homeostasis. We will expand on this topic in the Discussion section of the revised ms.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Cerebrospinal fluid contacting neurons (CSF-cNs) are GABAergic cells surrounding the spinal cord central canal (CC). In mammals, their soma lies sub-ependymally, with a dendritic-like apical extension (AP) terminating as a bulb inside the CC.

      How this anatomy-soma and AP in distinct extracellular environments relate to their multimodal CSF-sensing function remains unclear.

      The authors confirm that in GATA3:GFP mice, where these cells are labeled, that CSFcNs exhibit prominent spontaneous electrical activity mediated by PKD2L1 (TRPP2) channels, non-selective cation channels with ~200 pS conductance modulated by protons and mechanical forces.

      They investigated PKD2L1 pH sensitivity and its effects on CSFcN excitability. They uncovered that PKD2L1 generates both phasic and tonic currents, bidirectionally modulated by pH with high sensitivity near physiological values.

      Combining electrophysiology (intact and isolated AP recordings) with elegant laser-photolysis, they show that functional PKD2L1 channels localize specifically to the apical extension (AP).

      This spatial segregation, coupled with PKD2L1's biophysical properties (high conductance, pH sensitivity) and the AP's unique features (very high input resistance), renders CSFcN excitability highly sensitive to PKD2L1 modulation. Their findings reveal how the AP's properties are optimised for its sensory role.

      Strengths:

      This is a very convincing demonstration using elegant and challenging approaches (uncaging, outside out patch of the AP) together to form a complete understanding of how these sensory cells can detect the changes of pH in the CSF so finely.

      Weaknesses:

      The following do not constitute weaknesses; rather, they are minor requests that this reviewer considers would complete this beautiful study.

      (1) It would be nice to quantify further the relation in spontaneous as well as in acidic or basic pH between the effects observed on channel opening and holding current: do they always vary together and in a linear way?

      Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we performed a Spearman’s rank correlation test. The analysis revealed a significant correlation between the changes in the apparent open probability and the holding current in paired experiments (control vs pH 6.4 pressure applications; p < 0.05, Spearman r = 0.72 and critical value = 0.67). The Pearson correlation coefficient calculated on the same data set was r = 0.63 (critical value = 0.632), indicating that the correlation is not linear. We thank the reviewer for raising this point and will add this analysis to the manuscript.

      (2) Since CSF-cNs also respond to changes in osmolarity (Orts Dell Immagine 2013) & mechanosensory stimulations in a PKD2L1 dependent manner (Sternberg NC 2018), it would be nice to test the same results whether the same results hold true on the role of PKD2L1 in AP for pressure application of changes in osmolarity.

      This is a very important point. As the reviewer notes, previous experimental evidence indicates that CSFcNs are also sensitive to osmolarity changes and mechanical stimulation in a PKD2L1-dependent manner. It is therefore reasonable to assume that, similar to pH sensitivity, osmotic and mechanical sensitivity depend on channels localized to the apical process (ApPr). Regarding mechanosensitivity, this spatial segregation could be tested by mechanically stimulating either the ApPr or the soma with a piezo-controlled blunt pipette (see, for example, Hao et al. 2013). Assessing sensitivity to osmotic changes, however, is more challenging, as pressure application lacks the spatial resolution to discriminate between compartments in such a compact cell. In theory, a highly localized osmotic jump could be achieved via photolysis, provided a caged compound that releases many osmotic particles simultaneously is used. In typical photolysis experiments, a localized osmotic change is produced, but its amplitude is very low (on the order of 1 to 2 mOsm).

      In mice, like in fish (Sternberg et al, NC 2018), we can observe throughout the figures that a large fraction of the channel activity occurs with partial and very fast openings of the PKD2L1 channel. I recommend the authors analyse the points below:

      (a) To what extent do these partial openings of the channel contribute to the changes in holding current and resting potential?

      As the reviewer indicates, these partial and rapid openings are characteristic of PKD2L1 single-channel activity and appear to be conserved across species. However, estimating their precise contribution to the sustained current would require a detailed channel model, which is currently lacking. Indeed, the exact mechanism underlying this prominent sustained current in CSFcNs remains unknown and should definitely be addressed in future work.

      (b) In the trace from the outside out AP, it looks like the partial transient openings are gone. Can the authors verify whether these partial openings are only present in somatic recordings?

      The outside-out recordings from the apical process also show some partial openings (see the upper trace in Figure 4Db). We will specifically mention this important point in the revised version of the ms. 

      (3) Previous studies have observed expression of metabotropic Glutamate receptors in CSF-cNs (transcriptome from Prendergast et al CB 2023). The authors only used blockers for ionotropic glutamate receptors in their recordings: could it be that these metabotropic receptors influence the response to uncaging of MNI-Glu when glutamate is co-released with a proton?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out the presence of metabotropic glutamate receptors in CSFcNs. However, our evidence indicates that metabotropic receptors do not contribute to the response when uncaging MNI-glutamate. This conclusion is supported by two observations: (i) the response obtained when uncaging MNI-γLGG, which does not release glutamate (Figure 5Ab), and (ii) the response obtained when uncaging protons from DPNI-GABA (data not shown) (DPNI-GABA is a GABA cage with photochemistry similar to MNI cages that also releases a proton upon photolysis; Trigo et al. 2009), are the same. In both experiments (uncaging MNI-γLGG or DPNI-GABA) a clear photolysis-evoked PKD2L1 current is observed.

      (4) In the outside out patch of the AP, PKD2L1 unitary currents appear rare. Could it be that the disruption in the cilium or underlying actin/myosin cytoskeleton drastically alter the open probability of the channel?

      The reviewer is correct in noting that the opening frequency of PKD2L1 channels appears lower in outside-out patches than in whole-ApPr recordings, although we have not quantified this. We interpreted this difference as reflecting a lower channel number. However, as the reviewer suggests, a plausible alternative explanation is that the channel's biophysical properties are altered when removed from its native ionic environment or when it loses interactions with regulatory proteins. We will address this point in the Discussion.

      (5) Could the authors use drugs against ASIC to specify which ASIC channels contribute to the pH response in the soma?

      As described in the manuscript, we performed experiments with ASIC antagonists, although we did not attempt to characterize the specific ASIC subtype mediating the somatic response. Based on the published literature, we used both psalmotoxin-1, which blocks ASIC1 channels, and APETx2, which blocks ASIC3 channels. The presence of ASIC1 in mouse CSFcNs has been demonstrated previously (Orts-Del’immagine et al. 2012; Orts-Del’Immagine et al. 2016), while ASIC3 has been identified in lamprey CSFcNs (Jalalvand et al. 2016). When applying an acidic solution to the soma, we recorded an inward current that was substantially blocked by psalmotoxin-1, although a small residual component persisted, consistent with the earlier findings of Orts-Del’Immagine et al. We did not attempt to block this remaining Psalmotoxin1‑insensitive component.

      (6) This is out of the scope of this study, but we did observe in fish a very rarely-opening channel in the PKD2L1KO mutant. I wonder if the authors have similar observations in the conditions where PKD2L1 is mainly in the closed state.

      We have never seen such kind of openings in our recordings (when the channel is closed or in the presence of dibucaine).

      References

      Bjugn, R, H K Haugland, et P R Flood. 1988. “Ultrastructure of the mouse spinal cord ependyma”. Journal of Anatomy 160 (octobre): 117‑25.

      Bruni, J. E., et K. Reddy. 1987. “Ependyma of the Central Canal of the Rat Spinal Cord: A Light and Transmission Electron Microscopic Study”. Journal of Anatomy 152 (juin): 55‑70.

      Delling, Markus, Paul G. DeCaen, Julia F. Doerner, Sebastien Febvay, et David E. Clapham. 2013. ”Primary cilia are specialized calcium signaling organelles”. Nature 504 (7479): 311‑14 https://doi.org/10.1038/nature12833.

      Hao, Jizhe, Jérôme Ruel, Bertrand Coste, Yann Roudaut, Marcel Crest, et Patrick Delmas. 2013. “Piezo-Electrically Driven Mechanical Stimulation of Sensory Neurons”. In Ion Channels, édité par Nikita Gamper, vol. 998. Methods in Molecular Biology. Humana Press. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-1-62703-351-0_12.

      Jalalvand, Elham, Brita Robertson, Hervé Tostivint, Peter Wallén, et Sten Grillner. 2016. “The Spinal Cord Has an Intrinsic System for the Control of pH”. Current Biology: CB 26 (10): 1346‑51. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2016.03.048.

      Nakamura, Yuka, Miyuki Kurabe, Mami Matsumoto, et al. 2023. “Cerebrospinal Fluid-Contacting Neuron Tracing Reveals Structural and Functional Connectivity for Locomotion in the Mouse Spinal Cord”. eLife 12 (février): e83108. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.83108.

      Orts-Del’Immagine, Adeline, Riad Seddik, Fabien Tell, et al. 2016. “A Single Polycystic Kidney Disease 2-like 1 Channel Opening Acts as a Spike Generator in Cerebrospinal Fluid-Contacting Neurons of Adult Mouse Brainstem”. Neuropharmacology 101 (février): 549‑65. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neuropharm.2015.07.030.

      Orts-Del’immagine, Adeline, Nicolas Wanaverbecq, Catherine Tardivel, Vanessa Tillement, Michel Dallaporta, et Jérôme Trouslard. 2012. “Properties of Subependymal Cerebrospinal Fluid Contacting Neurones in the Dorsal Vagal Complex of the Mouse Brainstem”. The Journal of Physiology 590 (16): 3719‑41. https://doi.org/10.1113/jphysiol.2012.227959.

      Prendergast, Andrew E., Kin Ki Jim, Hugo Marnas, et al. 2023. “CSF-Contacting Neurons Respond to Streptococcus Pneumoniae and Promote Host Survival during Central Nervous System Infection”. Current Biology 33 (5): 940-956.e10. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2023.01.039.

      Trigo, Federico F., George Papageorgiou, John E. T. Corrie, et David Ogden. 2009. “Laser photolysis of DPNI-GABA, a tool for investigating the properties and distribution of GABA receptors and for silencing neurons in situ”. Journal of Neuroscience Methods 181 (2): 159‑69. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jneumeth.2009.04.022.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study presents a detailed single-cell transcriptomic analysis of the postnatal development of mouse anterior chamber tissues. Analysis focused on the development of cells that comprise Schlemm's Canal (SC) and trabecular meshwork (TM).

      Strengths:

      This developmental atlas represents a valuable resource for the research community. The dataset is robust, consisting of ~130,000 cells collected across seven time points from early post-natal development to adulthood. Analyses reveal developmental dynamics of SC and TM populations and describe the developmental expression patterns of genes associated with glaucoma.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Throughout the paper, the authors place significant weight on the spatial relationships of UMAP clusters, which can be misleading (See Chari and Patcher, Plos Comb Bio 2023). This is perhaps most evident in the assessment of vascular progenitors (VP) into BEC and SEC types (Figures 4 and 5). In the text, VPs are described as a common progenitor for these types, however, the trajectory analysis in Figure 5 denotes a path of PEC -> BEC -> VP -> SEC. These two findings are incongruous and should be reconciled. The limitations of inferring relationships based on UMAP spatial positions should be noted.

      (2) Figure 2d does not include P60. It is also noted that technical variation resulted in fewer TM3 cells at P21; was this due to challenges in isolation? What is the expected proportion of TM3 cells at this stage?

      (3) In Figures 3a and b it is difficult to discern the morphological changes described in the text. Could features of the image be quantified or annotated to highlight morphological features?

      (4) Given the limited number of markers available to identify SC and TM populations during development, it would be useful to provide a table describing potential new markers identified in this study.

      (5) The paper introduces developmental glaucoma (DG), namely Axenfeld-Rieger syndrome and Peters Anomaly, but the expression analysis (Figure S20) does not annotate which genes are associated with DG.

    2. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This study presents a comprehensive single-cell atlas of mouse anterior segment development, focusing on the trabecular meshwork and Schlemm's canal. The authors profiled ~130,000 cells across seven postnatal stages, providing detailed and solid characterization of cell types, developmental trajectories, and molecular programs. 

      Strengths: 

      The manuscript is well-written, with a clear structure and thorough introduction of previous literature, providing a strong context for the study. The characterization of cell types is detailed and robust, supported by both established and novel marker genes as well as experimental validation. The developmental model proposed is intriguing and well supported by the evidence. The study will serve as a valuable reference for researchers investigating anterior segment developmental mechanisms. Additionally, the discussion effectively situates the findings within the broader field, emphasizing their significance and potential impact for developmental biologists studying the visual system. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The weaknesses of the study are minor and addressable. As the study focuses on the mouse anterior segment, a brief discussion of potential human relevance would strengthen the work by relating the findings to human anterior segment cell types, developmental mechanisms, and possible implications for human eye disease. Data availability is currently limited, which restricts immediate use by the community. Similarly, the analysis code is not yet accessible, limiting the ability to reproduce and validate the computational analyses presented in the study. 

      In the revised version we will highlight the human relevance of our work in the discussion section. Additionally, data and codes are public on single cell portal and GEO, accession numbers have been updated.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This study presents a detailed single-cell transcriptomic analysis of the postnatal development of mouse anterior chamber tissues. Analysis focused on the development of cells that comprise Schlemm's Canal (SC) and trabecular meshwork (TM). 

      Strengths: 

      This developmental atlas represents a valuable resource for the research community. The dataset is robust, consisting of ~130,000 cells collected across seven time points from early post-natal development to adulthood. Analyses reveal developmental dynamics of SC and TM populations and describe the developmental expression patterns of genes associated with glaucoma. 

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) Throughout the paper, the authors place significant weight on the spatial relationships of UMAP clusters, which can be misleading (See Chari and Patcher, Plos Comb Bio 2023). This is perhaps most evident in the assessment of vascular progenitors (VP) into BEC and SEC types (Figures 4 and 5). In the text, VPs are described as a common progenitor for these types, however, the trajectory analysis in Figure 5 denotes a path of PEC -> BEC -> VP -> SEC. These two findings are incongruous and should be reconciled. The limitations of inferring relationships based on UMAP spatial positions should be noted. 

      (2) Figure 2d does not include P60. It is also noted that technical variation resulted in fewer TM3 cells at P21; was this due to challenges in isolation? What is the expected proportion of TM3 cells at this stage? 

      (3) In Figures 3a and b it is difficult to discern the morphological changes described in the text. Could features of the image be quantified or annotated to highlight morphological features? 

      (4) Given the limited number of markers available to identify SC and TM populations during development, it would be useful to provide a table describing potential new markers identified in this study. 

      (5) The paper introduces developmental glaucoma (DG), namely Axenfeld-Rieger syndrome and Peters Anomaly, but the expression analysis (Figure S20) does not annotate which genes are associated with DG.

      (1) We agree that inferring biological relationships from the spatial arrangement of UMAP clusters has limitations and we will qualify our interpretation accordingly in the text. We will also add clarifying language to the trajectory analysis in Figure 5. The intended developmental trajectory is PEC → VP → BEC and SEC; however, the cluster labels in Figure 5 were applied incorrectly. Specifically, VP-BECs were mislabeled as BECs, which led to the confusion.

      (2) We recently published the P60 dataset separately (Tolman, Li, Balasubramanian et al., eLife 2025); these data consist of integrated single-nucleus multiome profiles that were subjected to in-depth analysis. Additionally, we found that integrating the P60 dataset with the developmental datasets obscured sub-clustering of mature cell types. In future manuscripts, we will pursue a more detailed analysis of TM development and perform time point–specific clustering, similar to the approach we used for endothelial cells (Figure 4e).

      Comparing proportions of cells at different ages and as the eyes grows needs to be done cautiously. Notwithstanding the limitations, the proportions of TM1, TM2, and TM3 clusters are expected to be similar between P14 and P21 as the proportions at P14 and P60 are similar when comparing to the separately analyzed P60 data.  Importantly, our dissection strategy changed with age: from P2 to P14, we removed approximately one-third of the cornea, whereas at P21 and P60 we removed most of the cornea to help maximize representation of limbal cells as the eyes grew. This change in dissection likely contributed to the reduced number of TM3 cells observed at P21.  TM3 cells are enriched anteriorly (at-least in adult) and so are located closer to the corneal cut during dissection of the P21 eyes (which despite being larger than younger ages are still small and more delicate to accurately dissect than at P60) and are therefore more likely to be lost. Additional details are provided in the Methods section.

      (3) For Figure 3a and b, we will work to add clarity by providing additional annotations and an additional illustration.

      (4) We will include a table listing potential new markers for developing SC and TM populations.

      (5) We will annotate the genes associated with DG in Figure S20.

    1. Universal pre-school education to support school readiness before first grade

      Universal pre-school education aims to ensure that all children enter Grade 1 with basic language, cognitive, and social readiness. In India, this is feasible by strengthening and integrating the existing Anganwadi system with structured early childhood curricula and teacher training. Global examples from Finland, France, and the UK show that universal early childhood education reduces early learning gaps and improves long-term educational outcomes, especially for disadvantaged children.

      Why are Anganwadi reforms challenging? 1. Anganwadis were designed for nutrition & care, not education. Hence, the centers are not properly equipped nor is the staff. And if the early schooling is done in an incorrect manner it can lead to a major damage in child's curiosity

      1. Anganwadi workers are overburdened and undertrained Reality on the ground

      An Anganwadi worker today often:

      • Handles nutrition distribution
      • Maintains health records
      • Supports surveys and elections
      • Manages multiple government schemes

      Now we expect them to: * Teach early literacy * Build number sense * Do classroom management * Track learning progress

      Without: * Deep training * Time * Support staff

      • This isn’t resistance - it’s capacity mismatch.

      • Early childhood pedagogy is deceptively hard Biggest misconception that teaching children is easy. This involves knowing how child's brain develops, designing play that secretly builds skills, managing attention spans, language scaffolding through language (Language scaffolding through conversation means helping a child develop language step-by-step by talking with them in a guided way, instead of just teaching words or letters directly.)

      • Coordination problem - Anganwadis operate at the intersection of the women and child development, health, and education systems, but are governed primarily as welfare units rather than educational institutions. As a result, there is no clear ownership or accountability for learning outcomes.

    2. economic and socialreturns

      Economic returns (what do I gain?) = all measurable economic benefits. 1 Direct Monetary returns 2. Employment stability and options (Higher chances of getting a job, ability to switch and negotiate, less fear of losing job, access to better quality work) 3. Productivity and lifetime earning capacity - simply means that within the job either directly through the nature of the job, or buy time to progress outside of your job but make sure to become more productive and gain skills such that it does not only bring you money for the current year but also increases your chances of earnings for your lifetime. 4. Economic returns also encapsulates better health, financial literacy, mobility, and networks (access to opportunities)

      Social returns (What do we gain?) What does a society gain when an individual is well educated? 1. Public health improvements Education changes the decision quality of people. Basic literacy helps deepen understanding about importance of hygiene, medical instructions, etc.

      1. Social order and safety Education helps people control their impulses and improves conflict-resolution skills, improves understanding about consequences and drives a way to lawful income paths and gives confidence to engage with any kind of institutions.

      2. Civic and democratic participation Basic pollical literacy and critical thinking - ability to think beyond immediate self interest.

      3. Intergenerational human capital Educated parents talk more with children using good vocab, they themselves value schooling and intervene early when learning gaps appear.

      4. Social cohesion and equality Education creates a common language. Not only linguistically but also creates common ways in which people can understand each other's reasoning. Common base = numbers, terms, concepts, and some std. ways and ref. to explain things.

      Education brings about social mobility meaning a person's ability to move beyond social and economic status that they are born into - Education does not erase inequality but weakens the link between birth = destiny

  3. prototype-dot.web.app prototype-dot.web.app
    1. Briefing : Éduquer à l'Orientation, de l'École Primaire à Parcoursup

      Synthèse Exécutive

      Ce document synthétise les perspectives et stratégies clés concernant l'éducation à l'orientation dans le système éducatif français, de l'école primaire à l'enseignement supérieur.

      Il ressort que l'orientation est un processus continu et complexe qui doit commencer dès le plus jeune âge pour être efficace.

      L'enjeu principal est de lutter contre les déterminismes sociaux, géographiques et de genre qui se construisent très tôt.

      Les enseignants jouent un rôle central, non pas seulement informatif, mais comme des acteurs majeurs permettant aux élèves d'élargir leurs horizons et de se projeter dans un avenir concret.

      Les points critiques à retenir sont :

      L'orientation est un processus et non un acte ponctuel : Elle ne doit pas se réduire au choix final sur une plateforme comme Parcoursup, mais être un cheminement accompagné tout au long de la scolarité.

      La précocité de l'intervention est essentielle : Les actions menées dès l'école primaire sont fondamentales pour "ouvrir le champ des possibles" avant que les stéréotypes ne se cristallisent.

      La lutte contre les déterminismes est l'objectif suprême : L'école a pour mission de permettre à chaque jeune de s'émanciper de son genre, de son origine sociale ou de son territoire pour construire son propre parcours.

      Une approche collaborative est indispensable : Le succès de l'accompagnement repose sur l'articulation entre les différents acteurs : enseignants, parents, psychologues de l'Éducation nationale (PsyEN), et partenaires externes comme les Régions.

      Le développement de compétences transversales est central : Au-delà de la découverte des métiers, il s'agit de développer chez l'élève la connaissance de soi, l'esprit critique, la capacité à s'informer et à se projeter dans un monde incertain.

      1. Redéfinir l'Orientation : Un Processus Complexe et Multifactoriel

      L'orientation est un concept polysémique, perçu différemment par chaque acteur impliqué dans le parcours de l'élève. Comprendre ces perspectives est essentiel pour construire un accompagnement cohérent.

      Pour les parents : L'orientation est souvent définie par un lieu d'affectation final. Leur principal intérêt est de voir leur enfant épanoui dans un environnement choisi.

      Pour les enseignants : L'objectif est de garantir la réussite de l'élève dans son parcours. Ils observent les compétences de l'adolescent pour l'orienter vers des formations où il pourra augmenter son potentiel et réussir.

      Pour les spécialistes (PsyEN) : L'accent est mis sur le développement psychocognitif. Ils accompagnent les élèves dans la projection, ce qui implique d'accepter de faire des deuils et de renoncer à certaines options, un processus parfois complexe à l'adolescence.

      Ces acteurs, auxquels s'ajoute la Région qui détient la compétence de l'information sur les métiers et les formations, doivent s'articuler pour offrir un soutien complet.

      Yoril Baudoin, DRAIO : "Les différents acteurs de l'orientation dans le système éducatif doivent s'articuler pour accompagner le jeûne dans ses projets et dans l'accomplissement de ses rêves."

      2. Le "Parcours Avenir" : Une Approche Longitudinale de l'Orientation

      Le "Plan Avenir", et plus spécifiquement son "plan pluriannuel d'éducation à l'orientation", formalise la nécessité de voir l'orientation comme une trajectoire continue.

      Une vision de parcours : Le plan vise à créer une articulation fluide entre l'école, le collège, le lycée et l'enseignement supérieur. Il met l'accent sur le "parcours" plutôt que sur le "projet" ponctuel.

      L'importance du primaire : L'implication du premier degré, bien que récente, est jugée cruciale.

      Estelle Blanchard, directrice d'école, souligne que les élèves du primaire se posent déjà des questions sur leur avenir mais manquent de références.

      L'objectif est donc de leur "ouvrir le champ des possibles" dès la maternelle, en découvrant les métiers des parents puis en élargissant progressivement les horizons.

      Le rôle renforcé des enseignants : Le plan rappelle que les enseignants sont les premiers au contact des élèves et ont un impact significatif sur leurs trajectoires.

      Leur mission est d'agir activement contre les déterminismes pour permettre à chaque élève de se dire : "Et pourquoi pas moi ?".

      Yoril Baudoin, DRAIO : "[Le plan Avenir, c'est] dire aux enseignants vous avez une place très forte pour travailler sur les déterminismes quel qu'ils soient et pour permettre finalement à des jeunes de se dire 'Bah l'école peut me servir d'ascenseur social ou en tout cas de m'extirper d'une assignation si tenté que ce soit mon choix.'"

      3. Lutter contre les Déterminismes : Les Inégalités au Cœur du Sujet

      L'un des objectifs centraux de l'éducation à l'orientation est de corriger les inégalités qui entravent les choix des élèves. Celles-ci sont de plusieurs ordres.

      Déterminisme Géographique

      Particulièrement prégnant dans les territoires ruraux et enclavés, il se manifeste par :

      Des choix par défaut : Des élèves aux bons résultats scolaires s'orientent vers des filières professionnelles par dépit, simplement parce que le lycée général le plus proche est trop éloigné.

      La peur de l'inconnu : Les familles et les élèves appréhendent les "grandes villes", ce qui constitue un frein majeur aux projets ambitieux.

      Solutions concrètes mises en place :

      Visites de lycées dès le CM1-CM2 : Pour se projeter et découvrir les formations existantes.  

      Implication des familles : Inviter les parents à participer à ces visites pour "dédramatiser le passage au lycée".   

      Sorties scolaires stratégiques : Organiser des voyages dans de grandes villes (ex: Lille) en utilisant les transports en commun (train, métro) pour familiariser élèves et parents avec cet environnement.

      Déterminisme Social

      Ce biais affecte non seulement les élèves mais aussi la perception des éducateurs.

      L'autocensure des accompagnants : Face à un élève de milieu modeste, la tendance peut être de proposer un "projet par petit pas" (ex: Bac Pro puis BTS) en anticipant des difficultés financières, une approche qui ne serait pas adoptée pour un élève de milieu favorisé.

      Solutions proposées :

      Informer sur les droits : Communiquer de manière explicite sur les aides financières et les dispositifs de soutien (bourses, services du CROUS) pour lever les freins financiers.   

      Intégrer les services sociaux dans les temps forts de l'orientation, comme les forums des métiers.

      Déterminisme de Genre

      Les stéréotypes de genre sont ancrés dès le plus jeune âge et influencent fortement les projections professionnelles.

      Des projections stéréotypées : En maternelle, les choix sont très genrés ("princesse", "chevalier").

      Le travail consiste à déconstruire ces clichés (ex: les princesses peuvent être fortes et se sauver seules).

      Le risque de renforcer les stéréotypes : L'intervention de professionnels peut être contre-productive.

      Un chef d'entreprise affirmant que l'industrie a besoin de filles parce qu'elles sont "minutieuses et plus sérieuses" ancre le stéréotype au lieu de le combattre.

      Les limites des "rôles modèles" : Présenter des figures au parcours exceptionnel peut être intimidant et perçu comme inaccessible, au lieu d'inspirer.

      L'idéal est de présenter des modèles plus proches, dans une "zone proximale de développement", auxquels les jeunes peuvent s'identifier.

      L'Influence Familiale

      Les témoignages d'élèves révèlent le poids de l'entourage dans les décisions finales.

      Le dilemme de l'écoute : Une élève de terminale explique son tiraillement entre les conseils de ses professeurs (basés sur ses notes) et ceux de ses parents (basés sur sa personnalité et sa gestion du stress).

      Les choix faits "pour" les parents : Un élève raconte avoir choisi un lycée général "pour sa mère", alors qu'il aspirait à une filière professionnelle manuelle.

      Ce cheminement, bien que contraint, lui a permis de mûrir son projet et de mieux l'argumenter par la suite.

      4. Développer les Compétences à s'Orienter : Stratégies et Outils

      Éduquer à l'orientation ne se limite pas à informer, mais vise à équiper les élèves d'un ensemble de compétences pour naviguer leur parcours.

      Les Outils Pédagogiques

      | Stratégie | Description | Objectifs | | --- | --- | --- | | Le Référentiel de Compétences | Cadre officiel pour le collège et le lycée qui balise les compétences à développer (ex: s'informer, se projeter). | Intégrer l'orientation dans chaque discipline et non comme une activité annexe. Développer l'esprit critique, notamment face à l'information en ligne. | | L'Introspection et Connaissance de Soi | Travail sur les compétences psychosociales : estime de soi, confiance, savoir-être, apprendre à apprendre. | Permettre à l'élève de connaître ses forces, ses faiblesses et de prendre conscience de ses capacités via des outils comme l'auto-évaluation. | | L'Immersion et l'Expérience | Mise en situation concrète : journées portes ouvertes dans les lycées, stages, "classe en entreprise" (une classe délocalisée une fois par semaine dans une entreprise locale). | Rendre l'apprentissage concret en "passant par le geste". Faciliter la projection et démystifier le monde professionnel. L'interaction entre pairs est un levier puissant. | | La Gestion des "Grands Rêves" | Accompagner les élèves qui aspirent à des carrières très sélectives (footballeur, influenceur) sans briser leurs ambitions. | Le rêve est un moteur essentiel. Le rôle de l'éducateur est d'aider l'élève à développer les compétences nécessaires et la réflexivité pour, si besoin, réajuster son projet. | | L'Intelligence Artificielle (IA) | Utilisation d'outils comme les chatbots (ex: Orian) pour fournir de l'information. | Le risque est de court-circuiter le cheminement humain. L'opportunité est d'utiliser l'IA pour la recherche documentaire afin de libérer du temps pour l'accompagnement humain qualitatif. |

      Le témoignage d'une élève sur l'anxiété générée par les choix finaux sur Parcoursup illustre l'échec d'une approche tardive.

      Analyse de Yoril Baudoin : "Ce qu'elle nous décrit là c'est à un moment donné l'orientation se réduit à un acte administratif où il faut faire un choix et là d'un seul coup on n'est pas prêt [...] alors que nous souhaitons travailler collégialement pour montrer que c'est un cheminement."

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This manuscript proposes that phosphorylation of a conserved Hsp70 residue (human T495 / yeast Ssa1 T492) is a BER-triggered, DDR-dependent phospho-switch that acts as a conserved brake on G1/S cell-cycle progression in response to DNA damage.

      Although the topic is interesting and potentially useful, the strength of evidence of the mechanistic and "conserved checkpoint" claims that this site is directly activated by DNA damage is inadequate and fundamentally incorrect. The work requires extensive additional experimentation and substantial tempering of conclusions.

      Specific comments:

      (1) Activation of T495:

      (a) The author's premise for the site being activated by DNA damage is Albuquerque et al, where PTMs on MMS treated yeast are analyzed. T492 (the yeast equivalent of human T495) is observed as phosphorylated. However, the authors fail to note that there is no untreated sample analysis in this study, and it is likely that T492 phosphorylation is also present in untreated cells. This is also backed up by later evidence from the same lab (Smolka et al), where they do not identify T492 as being dependent on Mec1/Tel/Rad53 kinases.

      (b) The kinase(s) directly responsible for T495 phosphorylation are not identified. Instead, the authors show that knockdown or pharmacological inhibition of DNA-PKcs, ATM, Chk2, and CK1 attenuate pHsp70.

      (c) ATM siRNA knockdown has no effect, while ATM inhibitors do, which the authors acknowledge but do not resolve. This discrepancy raises concerns about off-target drug effects.

      (d) No in vitro kinase assays, motif analysis, or phosphosite mapping confirming these kinases as direct T495 kinases are presented. Thus, the proposed signaling cascade remains speculative.

      (e) Smolka and many other labs characterized DDR sites as SQ/TQ motifs, and T492 doesn't fit that motif.

      (f) No genetic tests in yeast (e.g., BER mutants) are used to connect Ssa1 T492 phosphorylation to BER in that system, despite the strong BER-centric model.

      (g) Overexpression of MPG gives only a modest increase in pHsp70, while APE1 overexpression has no effect, and Polβ overexpression does not decrease pHsp70. These mixed results weaken the central claim that Hsp70 phosphorylation is a tuned sensor of BER burden.

      (h) A major concern is that pHsp70 is only convincingly detected after very high, prolonged MMS (10 mM, 5 h) or 0.5 mM arsenite treatments. Other DNA-damaging agents (bleomycin, camptothecin, hydroxyurea) that robustly activate DDR kinases do not induce pHsp70. This suggests to me that the authors are observing a side effect of proteotoxic stress. This is likely (see Paull et al, PMID: 34116476).

      (i) A recent study in Nature Communications (Omkar et al., 2025) demonstrates rapid phosphorylation of yeast T492 in a pkc1-dependent manner, diminishing the impact of these findings.

      (2) Downstream Effects of T492/T495:

      (a) The manuscript's central conceptual advance is that pHsp70 is a cell-cycle-regulated brake on G1/S. Yet in mammalian cells, the authors show only that pHsp70 appears late, after cells have traversed mitosis, and that blocking CDK1 (G2/M) prevents its accumulation.

      (b) There is no functional test in human cells: no knockdown/rescue experiments with T495A or T495E, no cell-cycle profiling upon altering Hsp70 phosphorylation state, and no demonstration that pHsp70 actually causes any delay in S-phase entry, rather than simply correlating with late damage responses. The strong conclusion that pT495 "stalls cell cycle progression" (e.g., Figure 6 model) is therefore not supported in the human system.

      (c) All functional conclusions rely on T492A/E point mutants at the endogenous SSA1 locus, usually in an ssa2Δ background, in a family of highly redundant Hsp70s. Without showing that this site is actually modified during their MMS treatments, the assignment of phenotypes to loss of a physiological phospho-switch is premature. The authors need to repeat their studies in an Ssa1-4 background, as in https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32205407/.

      (d) The authors infer that T495E "locks" Hsc70 in a pseudo-open state based on reduced J-protein-stimulated ATPase activity, unchanged ATP binding, altered trypsin sensitivity, and retained tau binding. However, there is no direct comparison of phosphorylated vs T495E protein (e.g., via in vitro phosphorylation with LegK4 followed by side-by-side biochemical assays, or structural analysis). Thus, it remains unclear to what extent the glutamate substitution mimics a phosphate at this position.

      (e) No client release kinetics, co-chaperone binding assays, or in vivo chaperone function tests are provided, yet the discussion builds a detailed model of a "pseudo-open" state that simultaneously resembles ATP-bound conformation and allows persistent substrate engagement.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study evaluates the contributions of the mammalian PG-binding protein PGLYRP1 to Bordetella infection. The authors find potential roles for PGLYRP1 in both bacterial killing (canonical) and regulation of inflammation (non-canonical). While these are interesting findings and the idea that PG fragment release has differential impacts on infection depending on fragment structure, the study is limited by the lack of connection between the in vivo and in vitro experiments, and determining the precise mechanism of how PGLYRP1 regulates host responses and bacterial fitness during infection requires further study.

      Strengths:

      (1) The combination of scRNAseq with in vitro and in vivo assays provides complementary views of PGLYRP1 function during infection.

      (2) The use of TCT-deficient B. pertussis provides a useful control and perturbation in the in vitro assays.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The study does not ultimately resolve the initial early versus late phenotype divergence. While the in vitro assays suggest explanations for their in vivo observations, further mechanistic links are lacking and necessary for the author's conclusions throughout. To state one example, what is the early and late infection phenotype of TCT- Bp in mice lacking PGLYRP1? RNAseq data are reported from these mice, but there are no burden or pathology studies. Furthermore, what are the neutrophil phenotypes (NOD-1/TREM-1 activation) in vivo? And are they dependent on PGLYRP1 and/or TCT?

      (2) It is unclear whether or how the NOD1 and TREM-1 pathways interact.

      (3) Many of the study's conclusions rely on the use of HEK293 reporter lines in the absence of bacterial infection, which may not be physiologically representative.

      (4) The methods lack detail overall, and the experimental procedures should be described more concretely, especially for the scRNAseq datasets.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      The paper is well written and well presented. The topic is important, and its significance is explained succinctly and accurately. I am only capable of reviewing the clinical aspects of this work, which is very largely technical in nature. Several clinical points are worth considering:

      (1) Tendons typically display large magic angle effects as a result of their highly ordered collagen structure (cortical bone much less so), and so it would have been of interest to know what orientation the tendons had to B 0 (in vitro and in vivo). This could affect the signal level at the longer echo time and thus the signal on the subtracted images.

      (2) The in vivo transverse image looks about mid-forearm, where tendons are not prominent. A transverse image of the lower forearm, where there is an abundance of tendons, might have been preferable.

      (3) The in vivo images show the interosseous membrane as a high signal on both the shorter and longer TE images. The structure contains ordered collagen with fibres at different oblique angles to the radius and ulnar, and thus potentially to B 0. Collagen fibres may have been at an orientation towards the magic angle, and this may account for the high signal on the longer TE image and the low signal on the subtracted image.

      (4) Some of the signals attributed to the muscle may be from an attachment of the muscle to the aponeurosis.

      (5) There is significant collagen in subcutaneous tissues, so the designation "skin" may more correctly be "skin and subcutaneous tissue".

      (6) Cortical bone is very heterogeneous, with boundaries between hard bone and soft tissue with significant susceptibility differences between the two across a small distance. This might be another mechanism for ultrashort T 2 * tissue values in addition to the presence of collagen. The two effects might be distinguished by also including a longer TE spin echo acquisition.

      Solid cortical bone may also have an ultrashort T 2 * in its own right.

      (7) It may be worth noting that in disease T 2 * may be increased. As a result, the subtraction image may make abnormal tissue less obvious than normal tissue. Magic angle effects may also produce this appearance.

      (8) It may be worth distinguishing fibrous connective tissue (loose or dense), which may be normal or abnormal, from fibrosis, which is an abnormal accumulation of fibrous connective tissue in damaged tissue. Fibrosis typically has a longer T 2 initially and decreases its T 2 * over time. In places, the context suggests that fibrous connective tissue may be more appropriate than fibrosis.

      Overall, the paper appears very well constructed and describes thoughtful and important work.

  4. resu-bot-bucket.s3.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com resu-bot-bucket.s3.ca-central-1.amazonaws.com
    1. ∗ Front-end: React, MUI, and Leaflet. 50+ JSX Components spanning 7 views∗ Back-end: Express.js, MySQL, Sequelize, Redis, and Auth0. 20+ API endpoints with JWT authentication

      i would still say to describe what you did with these technologies instead of just listing them, e.g:

      Built dashboards with React and MUI..<br /> Built interactive map with Leaflet, etc...<br /> Implemented JWT authentication with Auth0 and ExpressJS...<br /> Caching with Redis....

      like those 4 bullets after these 2 are all great, if you can mix these technologies in there i think that would look good

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigates how the brain processes facial expressions across development by analyzing intracranial EEG (iEEG) data from children (ages 5-10) and post-childhood individuals (ages 13-55). The researchers used a short film containing emotional facial expressions and applied AI-based models to decode brain responses to facial emotions. They found that in children, facial emotion information is represented primarily in the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC)-a sensory processing area-but not in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC), which is involved in higher-level social cognition. In contrast, post-childhood individuals showed emotion encoding in both regions. Importantly, the complexity of emotions encoded in the pSTC increased with age, particularly for socially nuanced emotions like embarrassment, guilt, and pride.The authors claim that these findings suggest that emotion recognition matures through increasing involvement of the prefrontal cortex, supporting a developmental trajectory where top-down modulation enhances understanding of complex emotions as children grow older.

      Strengths:

      (1) The inclusion of pediatric iEEG makes this study uniquely positioned to offer high-resolution temporal and spatial insights into neural development compared to non-invasive approaches, e.g., fMRI, scalp EEG, etc.

      (2) Using a naturalistic film paradigm enhances ecological validity compared to static image tasks often used in emotion studies.

      (3) The idea of using state-of-the-art AI models to extract facial emotion features allows for high-dimensional and dynamic emotion labeling in real time.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The study has notable limitations that constrain the generalizability and depth of its conclusions. The sample size was very small, with only nine children included and just two having sufficient electrode coverage in the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC), which weakens the reliability and statistical power of the findings, especially for analyses involving age. Authors pointed out that a similar sample size has been used in previous iEEG studies, but the cited works focus on adults and do not look at the developmental perspectives. Similar work looking at developmental changes in iEEG signals usually includes many more subjects (e.g., n = 101 children from Cross ZR et al., Nature Human Behavior, 2025) to account for inter-subject variabilities.

      (2) Electrode coverage was also uneven across brain regions, with not all participants having electrodes in both the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC) and pSTC, making the conclusion regarding the different developmental changes between DLPFC and pSTC hard to interpret (related to point 3 below). It is understood that it is rare to have such iEEG data collected in this age group, and the electrode location is only determined by clinical needs. However, the scientific rigor should not be compromised by the limited data access. It's the authors' decision whether such an approach is valid and appropriate to address the scientific questions, here the developmental changes in the brain, given all the advantages and constraints of the data modality.

      (3) The developmental differences observed were based on cross-sectional comparisons rather than longitudinal data, reducing the ability to draw causal conclusions about developmental trajectories. Also, see comments in point 2.

      (4) Moreover, the analysis focused narrowly on DLPFC, neglecting other relevant prefrontal areas such as the orbitofrontal cortex (OFC) and anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), which play key roles in emotion and social processing. Agree that this might be beyond the scope of this paper, but a discussion section might be insightful.

      (5) Although the use of a naturalistic film stimulus enhances ecological validity, it comes at the cost of experimental control, with no behavioral confirmation of the emotions perceived by participants and uncertain model validity for complex emotional expressions in children. A non-facial music block that could have served as a control was available but not analyzed. The validation of AI model's emotional output needs to be tested. It is understood that we cannot collect these behavioral data retrospectively within the recorded subjects. Maybe potential post-hoc experiments and analyses could be done, e.g., collect behavioral, emotional perception data from age-matched healthy subjects.

      (6) Generalizability is further limited by the fact that all participants were neurosurgical patients, potentially with neurological conditions such as epilepsy that may influence brain responses. At least some behavioral measures between the patient population and the healthy groups should be done to ensure the perception of emotions is similar.

      (7) Additionally, the high temporal resolution of intracranial EEG was not fully utilized, as data were downsampled and averaged in 500-ms windows. It seems like the authors are trying to compromise the iEEG data analyses to match up with the AI's output resolution, which is 2Hz. It is not clear then why not directly use fMRI, which is non-invasive and seems to meet the needs here already. The advantages of using iEEG in this study are missing here.

      (8) Finally, the absence of behavioral measures or eye-tracking data makes it difficult to directly link neural activity to emotional understanding or determine which facial features participants attended to. Related to point 5 as well.

      Comments on revisions:

      A behavioral measurement will help address a lot of these questions. If the data continues collecting, additional subjects with iEEG recording and also behavioral measurements would be valuable.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, Fan et al. aim to characterize how neural representations of facial emotions evolve from childhood to adulthood. Using intracranial EEG recordings from participants aged 5 to 55, the authors assess the encoding of emotional content in high-level cortical regions. They report that while both the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC) and dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC) are involved in representing facial emotions in older individuals, only the pSTC shows significant encoding in children. Moreover, the encoding of complex emotions in the pSTC appears to strengthen with age. These findings lead the authors to suggest that young children rely more on low-level sensory areas and propose a developmental shift from reliance on lower-level sensory areas in early childhood to increased top-down modulation by the prefrontal cortex as individuals mature.

      Strengths:

      (1) Rare and valuable dataset: The use of intracranial EEG recordings in a developmental sample is highly unusual and provides a unique opportunity to investigate neural dynamics with both high spatial and temporal resolution.

      (2 ) Developmentally relevant design: The broad age range and cross-sectional design are well-suited to explore age-related changes in neural representations.

      (3) Ecological validity: The use of naturalistic stimuli (movie clips) increases the ecological relevance of the findings.

      (4) Feature-based analysis: The authors employ AI-based tools to extract emotion-related features from naturalistic stimuli, which enables a data-driven approach to decoding neural representations of emotional content. This method allows for a more fine-grained analysis of emotion processing beyond traditional categorical labels.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) While the authors leverage Hume AI, a tool pre-trained on a large dataset, its specific performance on the stimuli used in this study remains unverified. To strengthen the foundation of the analysis, it would be important to confirm that Hume AI's emotional classifications align with human perception for these particular videos. A straightforward way to address this would be to recruit human raters to evaluate the emotional content of the stimuli and compare their ratings to the model's outputs.

      (2) Although the study includes data from four children with pSTC coverage-an increase from the initial submission-the sample size remains modest compared to recent iEEG studies in the field.

      (3) The "post-childhood" group (ages 13-55) conflates several distinct neurodevelopmental periods, including adolescence, young adulthood, and middle adulthood. As a finer age stratification is likely not feasible with the current sample size, I would suggest authors temper their developmental conclusions.

      (4) The analysis of DLPFC-pSTC directional connectivity would be significantly strengthened by modeling it as a continuous function of age across all participants, rather than relying on an unbalanced comparison between a single child and a (N=7) post-childhood group. This continuous approach would provide a more powerful and nuanced view of the developmental trajectory. I would also suggest including the result in the main text.

    3. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This study examines a valuable question regarding the developmental trajectory of neural mechanisms supporting facial expression processing. Leveraging a rare intracranial EEG (iEEG) dataset including both children and adults, the authors reported that facial expression recognition mainly engaged the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC) among children, while both pSTC and the prefrontal cortex were engaged among adults. However, the sample size is relatively small, with analyses appearing incomplete to fully support the primary claims. 

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study investigates how the brain processes facial expressions across development by analyzing intracranial EEG (iEEG) data from children (ages 5-10) and post-childhood individuals (ages 13-55). The researchers used a short film containing emotional facial expressions and applied AI-based models to decode brain responses to facial emotions. They found that in children, facial emotion information is represented primarily in the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC) - a sensory processing area - but not in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC), which is involved in higher-level social cognition. In contrast, post-childhood individuals showed emotion encoding in both regions. Importantly, the complexity of emotions encoded in the pSTC increased with age, particularly for socially nuanced emotions like embarrassment, guilt, and pride. The authors claim that these findings suggest that emotion recognition matures through increasing involvement of the prefrontal cortex, supporting a developmental trajectory where top-down modulation enhances understanding of complex emotions as children grow older.

      Strengths:

      (1) The inclusion of pediatric iEEG makes this study uniquely positioned to offer high-resolution temporal and spatial insights into neural development compared to non-invasive approaches, e.g., fMRI, scalp EEG, etc.

      (2) Using a naturalistic film paradigm enhances ecological validity compared to static image tasks often used in emotion studies.

      (3) The idea of using state-of-the-art AI models to extract facial emotion features allows for high-dimensional and dynamic emotion labeling in real time

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The study has notable limitations that constrain the generalizability and depth of its conclusions. The sample size was very small, with only nine children included and just two having sufficient electrode coverage in the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC), which weakens the reliability and statistical power of the findings, especially for analyses involving age

      We appreciated the reviewer’s point regarding the constrained sample size.

      As an invasive method, iEEG recordings can only be obtained from patients undergoing electrode implantation for clinical purposes. Thus, iEEG data from young children are extremely rare,  and rapidly increasing the sample size within a few years is not feasible. However, we are confident in the reliability of our main conclusions. Specifically, 8 children (53 recording contacts in total) and 13 control participants (99 recording contacts in total) with electrode coverage in the DLPFC are included in our DLPFC analysis. This sample size is comparable to other iEEG studies with similar experiment designs [1-3]. 

      For pSTC, we returned to the data set and found another two children who had pSTC coverage. After involving these children’s data, the group-level analysis using permutation test showed that children’s pSTC significantly encode facial emotion in naturalistic contexts (Figure 3B). Notably, the two new children’s (S33 and S49) responses were highly consistent with our previous observations. Moreover, the averaged prediction accuracy in children’s pSTC (r<sub>speech</sub>=0.1565) was highly comparable to that in post-childhood group (r<sub>speech</sub>=0.1515).

      (1) Zheng, J. et al. Multiplexing of Theta and Alpha Rhythms in the Amygdala-Hippocampal Circuit Supports Pafern Separation of Emotional Information. Neuron 102, 887-898.e5 (2019).

      (2) Diamond, J. M. et al. Focal seizures induce spatiotemporally organized spiking activity in the human cortex. Nat. Commun. 15, 7075 (2024).

      (3) Schrouff, J. et al. Fast temporal dynamics and causal relevance of face processing in the human temporal cortex. Nat. Commun. 11, 656 (2020).

      (2) Electrode coverage was also uneven across brain regions, with not all participants having electrodes in both the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC) and pSTC, and most coverage limited to the left hemisphere-hindering within-subject comparisons and limiting insights into lateralization.

      The electrode coverage in each patient is determined entirely by the clinical needs. Only a few patients have electrodes in both DLPFC and pSTC because these two regions are far apart, so it’s rare for a single patient’s suspected seizure network to span such a large territory. However, it does not affect our results, as most iEEG studies combine data from multiple patients to achieve sufficient electrode coverage in each target brain area. As our data are mainly from left hemisphere (due to the clinical needs), this study was not designed to examine whether there is a difference between hemispheres in emotion encoding. Nevertheless, lateralization remains an interesting question that should be addressed in future research, and we have noted this limitation in the Discussion (Page 8, in the last paragraph of the Discussion).

      (3) The developmental differences observed were based on cross-sectional comparisons rather than longitudinal data, reducing the ability to draw causal conclusions about developmental trajectories.  

      In the context of pediatric intracranial EEG, longitudinal data collection is not feasible due to the invasive nature of electrode implantation. We have added this point to the Discussion to acknowledge that while our results reveal robust age-related differences in the cortical encoding of facial emotions, longitudinal studies using non-invasive methods will be essential to directly track developmental trajectories (Page 8, in the last paragraph of Discussion). In addition, we revised our manuscript to avoid emphasis causal conclusions about developmental trajectories in the current study (For example, we use “imply” instead of “suggest” in the fifth paragraph of Discussion).

      (4) Moreover, the analysis focused narrowly on DLPFC, neglecting other relevant prefrontal areas such as the orbitofrontal cortex (OFC) and anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), which play key roles in emotion and social processing.

      We agree that both OFC and ACC are critically involved in emotion and social processing. However, we have no recordings from these areas because ECoG rarely covers the ACC or OFC due to technical constraints. We have noted this limitation in the Discussion(Page 8, in the last paragraph of Discussion). Future follow-up studies using sEEG or non-invasive imaging methods could be used to examine developmental patterns in these regions.

      (5) Although the use of a naturalistic film stimulus enhances ecological validity, it comes at the cost of experimental control, with no behavioral confirmation of the emotions perceived by participants and uncertain model validity for complex emotional expressions in children. A nonfacial music block that could have served as a control was available but not analyzed. 

      The facial emotion features used in our encoding models were extracted by Hume AI models, which were trained on human intensity ratings of large-scale, experimentally controlled emotional expression data[1-2]. Thus, the outputs of Hume AI model reflect what typical facial expressions convey, that is, the presented facial emotion. Our goal of the present study was to examine how facial emotions presented in the videos are encoded in the human brain at different developmental stages. We agree that children’s interpretation of complex emotions may differ from that of adults, resulting in different perceived emotion (i.e., the emotion that the observer subjectively interprets). Behavioral ratings are necessary to study the encoding of subjectively perceived emotion, which is a very interesting direction but beyond the scope of the present work. We have added a paragraph in the Discussion (see Page 8) to explicitly note that our study focused on the encoding of presented emotion.

      We appreciated the reviewer’s point regarding the value of non-facial music blocks. However,  although there are segments in music condition that have no faces presented, these cannot be used as a control condition to test whether the encoding model’s prediction accuracy in pSTC or DLPFC drops to chance when no facial emotion is present. This is because, in the absence of faces, no extracted emotion features are available to be used for the construction of encoding model (see Author response image 1 below).  Thus, we chose to use a different control analysis for the present work. For children’s pSTC, we shuffled facial emotion feature in time to generate a null distribution, which was then used to test the statistical significance of the encoding models (see Methods/Encoding model fitting for details).

      (1) Brooks, J. A. et al. Deep learning reveals what facial expressions mean to people in different cultures. iScience 27, 109175 (2024).

      (2) Brooks, J. A. et al. Deep learning reveals what vocal bursts express in different cultures. Nat. Hum. Behav. 7, 240–250 (2023).

      Author response image 1.

      Time courses of Hume AI extracted facial expression features for the first block of music condition. Only top 5 facial expressions were shown here to due to space limitation.

      (6) Generalizability is further limited by the fact that all participants were neurosurgical patients, potentially with neurological conditions such as epilepsy that may influence brain responses. 

      We appreciated the reviewer’s point. However, iEEG data can only be obtained from clinical populations (usually epilepsy patients) who have electrodes implantation.  Given current knowledge about focal epilepsy and its potential effects on brain activity, researchers believe that epilepsy-affected brains can serve as a reasonable proxy for normal human brains when confounding influences are minimized through rigorous procedures[1]. In our study, we took several steps to ensure data quality: (1) all data segments containing epileptiform discharges were identified and removed at the very beginning of preprocessing, (2) patients were asked to participate the experiment several hours outside the window of seizures. Please see Method for data quality check description (Page 9/ Experimental procedures and iEEG data processing). 

      (1) Parvizi J, Kastner S. 2018. Promises and limitations of human intracranial electroencephalography. Nat Neurosci 21:474–483. doi:10.1038/s41593-018-0108-2

      (7) Additionally, the high temporal resolution of intracranial EEG was not fully utilized, as data were down-sampled and averaged in 500-ms windows.  

      We agree that one of the major advantages of iEEG is its millisecond-level temporal resolution. In our case, the main reason for down-sampling was that the time series of facial emotion features extracted from the videos had a temporal resolution of 2 Hz, which were used for the modelling neural responses. In naturalistic contexts, facial emotion features do not change on a millisecond timescale, so a 500 ms window is sufficient to capture the relevant dynamics. Another advantage of iEEG is its tolerance to motion, which is excessive in young children (e.g., 5-year-olds). This makes our dataset uniquely valuable, suggesting robust representation in the pSTC but not in the DLPFC in young children. Moreover, since our method framework (Figure 1) does not rely on high temporal resolution method, so it can be transferred to non-invasive modalities such as fMRI, enabling future studies to test these developmental patterns in larger populations.

      (8) Finally, the absence of behavioral measures or eye-tracking data makes it difficult to directly link neural activity to emotional understanding or determine which facial features participants afended to.  

      We appreciated this point. Part of our rationale is presented in our response to (5) for the absence of behavioral measures. Following the same rationale, identifying which facial features participants attended to is not necessary for testing our main hypotheses because our analyses examined responses to the overall emotional content of the faces. However, we agree and recommend future studies use eye-tracking and corresponding behavioral measures in studies of subjective emotional understanding. 

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, Fan et al. aim to characterize how neural representations of facial emotions evolve from childhood to adulthood. Using intracranial EEG recordings from participants aged 5 to 55, the authors assess the encoding of emotional content in high-level cortical regions. They report that while both the posterior superior temporal cortex (pSTC) and dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC) are involved in representing facial emotions in older individuals, only the pSTC shows significant encoding in children. Moreover, the encoding of complex emotions in the pSTC appears to strengthen with age. These findings lead the authors to suggest that young children rely more on low-level sensory areas and propose a developmental shiZ from reliance on lower-level sensory areas in early childhood to increased top-down modulation by the prefrontal cortex as individuals mature.

      Strengths: 

      (1) Rare and valuable dataset: The use of intracranial EEG recordings in a developmental sample is highly unusual and provides a unique opportunity to investigate neural dynamics with both high spatial and temporal resolution. 

      (2) Developmentally relevant design: The broad age range and cross-sectional design are well-suited to explore age-related changes in neural representations. 

      (3) Ecological validity: The use of naturalistic stimuli (movie clips) increases the ecological relevance of the findings. 

      (4) Feature-based analysis: The authors employ AIbased tools to extract emotion-related features from naturalistic stimuli, which enables a data-driven approach to decoding neural representations of emotional content. This method allows for a more fine-grained analysis of emotion processing beyond traditional categorical labels. 

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) The emotional stimuli included facial expressions embedded in speech or music, making it difficult to isolate neural responses to facial emotion per se from those related to speech content or music-induced emotion. 

      We thank the reviewer for their raising this important point. We agree that in naturalistic settings, face often co-occur with speech, and that these sources of emotion can overlap. However, background music induced emotions have distinct temporal dynamics which are separable from facial emotion (See the Author response image 2 (A) and (B) below). In addition, face can convey a wide range of emotions (48 categories in Hume AI model), whereas music conveys far fewer (13 categories reported by a recent study [1]). Thus, when using facial emotion feature time series as regressors (with 48 emotion categories and rapid temporal dynamics), the model performance will reflect neural encoding of facial emotion in the music condition, rather than the slower and lower-dimensional emotion from music. 

      For the speech condition, we acknowledge that it is difficult to fully isolate neural responses to facial emotion from those to speech when the emotional content from faces and speech highly overlaps. However, in our study, (1) the time courses of emotion features from face and voice are still different (Author response image 2 (C) and (D)), (2) our main finding that DLPFC encodes facial expression information in postchildhood individuals but not in young children was found in both speech and music condition (Figure 2B and 2C). In music condition, neural responses to facial emotion are not affected by speech. Thus, we have included the DLPFC results from the music condition in the revised manuscript (Figure 2C), and we acknowledge that this issue should be carefully considered in future studies using videos with speech, as we have indicated in the future directions in the last paragraph of Discussion.

      (1) Cowen, A. S., Fang, X., Sauter, D. & Keltner, D. What music makes us feel: At least 13 dimensions organize subjective experiences associated with music across different cultures. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 117, 1924–1934 (2020).

      Author response image 2.

      Time courses of the amusement. (A) and (B) Amusement conveyed by face or music in a 30-s music block. Facial emotion features are extracted by Hume AI. For emotion from music, we approximated the amusement time course using a weighted combination of low-level acoustic features (RMS energy, spectral centroid, MFCCs), which capture intensity, brightness, and timbre cues linked to amusement. Notice that music continues when there are no faces presented. (C) and (D) Amusement conveyed by face or voice in a 30-s speech block. From 0 to 5 seconds, a girl is introducing her friend to a stranger. The camera focuses on the friend, who appears nervous, while the girl’s voice sounds cheerful. This mismatch explains why the shapes of the two time series differ at the beginning. Such situations occur frequently in naturalistic movies

      (2) While the authors leveraged Hume AI to extract facial expression features from the video stimuli, they did not provide any validation of the tool's accuracy or reliability in the context of their dataset. It remains unclear how well the AI-derived emotion ratings align with human perception, particularly given the complexity and variability of naturalistic stimuli. Without such validation, it is difficult to assess the interpretability and robustness of the decoding results based on these features.  

      Hume AI models were trained and validated by human intensity ratings of large-scale, experimentally controlled emotional expression data [1-2]. The training process used both manual annotations from human raters and deep neural networks. Over 3000 human raters categorized facial expressions into emotion categories and rated on a 1-100 intensity scale. Thus, the outputs of Hume AI model reflect what typical facial expressions convey (based on how people actually interpret them), that is, the presented facial emotion. Our goal of the present study was to examine how facial emotions presented in the videos are encoded in the human brain at different developmental stages. We agree that the interpretation of facial emotions may be different in individual participants, resulting in different perceived emotion (i.e., the emotion that the observer subjectively interprets). Behavioral ratings are necessary to study the encoding of subjectively perceived emotion, which is a very interesting direction but beyond the scope of the present work. We have added text in the Discussion to explicitly note that our study focused on the encoding of presented emotion (second paragraph in Page 8).

      (1) Brooks, J. A. et al. Deep learning reveals what facial expressions mean to people in different cultures. iScience 27, 109175 (2024).

      (2) Brooks, J. A. et al. Deep learning reveals what vocal bursts express in different cultures. Nat. Hum. Behav. 7, 240–250 (2023).

      (3) Only two children had relevant pSTC coverage, severely limiting the reliability and generalizability of results.  

      We appreciated this point and agreed with both reviewers who raised it as a significant concern. As described in response to reviewer 1 (comment 1), we have added data from another two children who have pSTC coverage. Group-level analysis using permutation test showed that children’s pSTC significantly encode facial emotion in naturalistic contexts (Figure 3B). Because iEEG data from young children are extremely rare, rapidly increasing the sample size within a few years is not feasible. However, we are confident in the reliability of our conclusion that children’s pSTC can encode facial emotion. First,  the two new children’s responses (S33 and S49) from pSTC were highly consistent with our previous observations (see individual data in Figure 3B). Second, the averaged prediction accuracy in children’s pSTC (r<sub>speech</sub>=0.1565) was highly comparable to that in post-childhood group (r<sub>speech</sub>=0.1515).

      (4) The rationale for focusing exclusively on high-frequency activity for decoding emotion representations is not provided, nor are results from other frequency bands explored.   

      We focused on high-frequency broadband (HFB) activity because it is widely considered to reflect the responses of local neuronal populations near the recording electrode, whereas low-frequency oscillations in the theta, alpha, and beta ranges are thought to serve as carrier frequencies for long-range communication across distributed networks[1-2]. Since our study aimed to examine the representation of facial emotion in localized cortical regions (DLPFC and pSTC), HFB activity provides the most direct measure of the relevant neural responses. We have added this rationale to the manuscript (Page 3).

      (1) Parvizi, J. & Kastner, S. Promises and limitations of human intracranial electroencephalography. Nat. Neurosci. 21, 474–483 (2018).

      (2) Buzsaki, G. Rhythms of the Brain. (Oxford University Press, Oxford, 200ti).

      (5) The hypothesis of developmental emergence of top-down prefrontal modulation is not directly tested. No connectivity or co-activation analyses are reported, and the number of participants with simultaneous coverage of pSTC and DLPFC is not specified.  

      Directional connectivity analysis results were not shown because only one child has simultaneous coverage of pSTC and DLPFC. However, the  Granger Causality results from post-childhood group (N=7) clearly showed that the influence in the alpha/beta band from DLPFC to pSTC (top-down) is gradually increased above the onset of face presentation (Author response image 3, below left, plotted in red). By comparison, the influence in the alpha/beta band from pSTC to DLPFC (bottom-up) is gradually decreased after the onset of face presentation (Author response image 3, below left, blue curve). The influence in alpha/beta band from DLPFC to pSTC was significantly increased at 750 and 1250 ms after the face presentation (face vs nonface, paired t-test, Bonferroni  corrected P=0.005, 0.006), suggesting an enhanced top-down modulation in the post-childhood group during watching emotional faces. Interestingly, this top-down influence appears very different in the 8-year-old child at 1250 ms after the face presentation (Author response image 3, below left, black curve).

      As we cannot draw direct conclusions from the single-subject sample presented here, the top-down hypothesis is introduced only as a possible explanation for our current results. We have removed potentially misleading statements, and we plan to test this hypothesis directly using MEG in the future.

      Author response image 3.

      Difference of Granger causality indices (face – nonface) in alpha/beta and gamma band for both directions. We identified a series of face onset in the movie that paticipant watched. Each trial was defined as -0.1 to 1.5 s relative to the onset. For the non-face control trials, we used houses, animals and scenes. Granger causality was calculated for 0-0.5 s, 0.5-1 s and 1-1.5 s time window. For the post-childhood group, GC indices were averaged across participants. Error bar is sem.

      (6) The "post-childhood" group spans ages 13-55, conflating adolescence, young adulthood, and middle age. Developmental conclusions would benefit from finer age stratification.  

      We appreciate this insightful comment. Our current sample size does not allow such stratification. But we plan to address this important issue in future MEG studies with larger cohorts.

      (7) The so-called "complex emotions" (e.g., embarrassment, pride, guilt, interest) used in the study often require contextual information, such as speech or narrative cues, for accurate interpretation, and are not typically discernible from facial expressions alone. As such, the observed age-related increase in neural encoding of these emotions may reflect not solely the maturation of facial emotion perception, but rather the development of integrative processing that combines facial, linguistic, and contextual cues. This raises the possibility that the reported effects are driven in part by language comprehension or broader social-cognitive integration, rather than by changes in facial expression processing per se.  

      We agree with this interpretation. Indeed, our results already show that speech influences the encoding of facial emotion in the DLPFC differently in the childhood and post-childhood groups (Figure 2D), suggesting that children’s ability to integrate multiple cues is still developing. Future studies are needed to systematically examine how linguistic cues and prior experiences contribute to the understanding of complex emotions from faces, which we have added to our future directions section (last paragraph in Discussion, Page 8-9 ).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      In the introduction: "These neuroimaging data imply that social and emotional experiences shape the prefrontal cortex's involvement in processing the emotional meaning of faces throughout development, probably through top-down modulation of early sensory areas." Aren't these supposed to be iEEG data instead of neuroimaging? 

      Corrected.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This manuscript would benefit from several improvements to strengthen the validity and interpretability of the findings:

      (1) Increase the sample size, especially for children with pSTC coverage. 

      We added data from another two children who have pSTC coverage. Please see our response to reviewer 2’s comment 3 and reviewer 1’s comment 1.

      (2) Include directional connectivity analyses to test the proposed top-down modulation from DLPFC to pSTC. 

      Thanks for the suggestion. Please see our response to reviewer 2’s comment 5.

      (3) Use controlled stimuli in an additional experiment to separate the effects of facial expression, speech, and music. 

      This is an excellent point. However, iEEG data collection from children is an exceptionally rare opportunity and typically requires many years, so we are unable to add a controlled-stimulus experiment to the current study. We plan to consider using controlled stimuli to study the processing of complex emotion using non-invasive method in the future. In addition, please see our response to reviewer 2’s comment 1 for a description of how neural responses to facial expression and music are separated in our study.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Reviewer #1:

      In this well-written and timely manuscript, Rieger et al. introduce Squidly, a new deep learning framework for catalytic residue prediction. The novelty of the work lies in the aspect of integrating per-residue embeddings from large protein language models (ESM2) with a biology-informed contrastive learning scheme that leverages enzyme class information to rationally mine hard positive/negative pairs. Importantly, the method avoids reliance on the use of predicted 3D structures, enabling scalability, speed, and broad applicability. The authors show that Squidly outperforms existing ML-based tools and even BLAST in certain settings, while an ensemble with BLAST achieves state-of-the-art performance across multiple benchmarks. Additionally, the introduction of the CataloDB benchmark, designed to test generalization at low sequence and structural identity, represents another important contribution of this work.

      We thank the reviewer for their constructive and encouraging assessment of the manuscript. We appreciate the recognition of Squidly’s biology-informed contrastive learning framework with ESM2 embeddings, its scalability through the avoidance of predicted 3D structures, and the contribution of the CataloDB benchmark. We are pleased that the reviewer finds these aspects to be of value, and their comments will help us in further clarifying the strengths and scope of the work.

      The manuscript acknowledges biases in EC class representation, particularly the enrichment for hydrolases. While CataloDB addresses some of these issues, the strong imbalance across enzyme classes may still limit conclusions about generalization. Could the authors provide per-class performance metrics, especially for underrepresented EC classes?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We agree that per-class performance metrics provide important insight into generalizability across underrepresented EC classes. In response, we have updated Figure 3 to include two additional panels: (i) per-EC F1, precision and recall scores, and (ii) a relative display of true positives against the total number of predictable catalytic residues. These additions allow the class imbalance to be more directly interpretable. We have also revised the text between lines 316-321 to better contextualize our generalizability claims in light of these results.

      An ablation analysis would be valuable to demonstrate how specific design choices in the algorithm contribute to capturing catalytic residue patterns in enzymes.

      We agree an ablation analysis is beneficial to show the benefits of a specific approach. We consider the main design choice in Squidly to be how we select the training pairs, hence we chose a standard design choice for the contrastive learning model. We tested the effect of different pair schemes on performance and report the results in Figure 2A and lines 244258. These results are a targeted ablation in which we evaluate Squidly against AEGAN using the AEGAN training and test datasets, while systematically varying the ESM2 model size and pair-mining scheme. As a baseline, we included the LSTM trained directly on ESM2 embeddings and random pair selection.  We showed that indeed the choice of pairs has a large impact on performance, which is significantly improved when compared to naïve pairing. This comparison suggests that performance gains are attributable to reactioninformed pair-mining strategies. We recognize that the way these results were originally presented made this ablation less clear. We have revised the wording in the Results section (lines 244-247) and updated the caption to Figure 2A to emphasize the purpose of this section of the paper.

      The statement that users can optionally use uncertainty to filter predictions is promising but underdeveloped. How should predictive entropy values be interpreted in practice? Is there an empirical threshold that separates high- from low-confidence predictions? A demonstration of how uncertainty filtering shifts the trade-off between false positives and false negatives would clarify the practical utility of this feature.

      Thank you for the suggestion. Your comment prompted us to consider what is the best way to represent the uncertainty and, additionally, what is the best metric to return to users and how to visualize the results. Based on this, we included several new figures (Figure 3H and Supplementary Figures S3-5). We used these figures to select the cutoffs (mean prediction of 0.6, and variance < 0.225) which were then set as the defaults in Squidly, and used in all subsequent analyses. The effect of these cutoffs is most evident in the tradeoff of precision and recall. Hence users may opt to select their own filters based on the mean prediction and variance across the predictions, and these cutoffs can be passed as command line parameters to Squidly. The choice to use a consistent default cutoff selected using the Uni3175 benchmark has slightly improved the reported performance for the benchmarks seen in table 1, and figure 3C. However, our interpretation remains the same.

      The excerpt highlights computational efficiency, reporting substantial runtime improvements (e.g., 108 s vs. 5757 s). However, the comparison lacks details on dataset size, hardware/software environment, and reproducibility conditions. Without these details, the speedup claim is difficult to evaluate. Furthermore, it remains unclear whether the reported efficiency gains come at the expense of predictive performance

      Thank you for pointing out this limitation in how we presented the runtime results. We have rerun the tests and updated the table. An additional comment is added underneath, which details the hardware/software environment used to run both tools, as well as that the Squidly model is the ensemble version. As per the relationship between efficiency gains and predictive performance, both 3B and 15B models are benchmarked side by side across the paper.

      Compared to the tools we were able to comprehensively benchmark, it does not come at a cost. However, we note that the increased benefits in runtime assume that a structure must be folded, which is not the case for enzymes already present in the PDB. If that is the case, then it is likely already annotated and, in those cases, we recommend using BLAST which is superior in terms of run time than either Squidly or a structure-based tool and highly accurate for homologous or annotated sequences.

      Given the well-known biases in public enzyme databases, the dataset is likely enriched for model organisms (e.g., E. coli, yeast, human enzymes) and underrepresents enzymes from archaea, extremophiles, and diverse microbial taxa. Would this limit conclusions about Squidly's generalizability to less-studied lineages?

      The enrichment for model organisms in public enzyme databases may indeed affect both ESM2 and Squidly when applied to underrepresented lineages such as archaea, extremophiles, and diverse microbial taxa. We agree that this limitation is significant and have adjusted and expanded the previous discussion of benchmarking limitations accordingly (lines 358, 369). We thank the reviewer for highlighting this issue, which has helped us to improve the transparency and balance of the manuscript.

      Reviewer #2:

      The authors aim to develop Squidly, a sequence-only catalytic residue prediction method. By combining protein language model (ESM2) embedding with a biologically inspired contrastive learning pairing strategy, they achieve efficient and scalable predictions without relying on three-dimensional structure. Overall, the authors largely achieved their stated objectives, and the results generally support their conclusions. This research has the potential to advance the fields of enzyme functional annotation and protein design, particularly in the context of screening large-scale sequence databases and unstructured data. However, the data and methods are still limited by the biases of current public databases, so the interpretation of predictions requires specific biological context and experimental validation.

      Strengths:

      The strengths of this work include the innovative methodological incorporation of EC classification information for "reaction-informed" sample pairing, thereby enhancing the discriminative power of contrastive learning. Results demonstrate that Squidly outperforms existing machine learning methods on multiple benchmarks and is significantly faster than structure prediction tools, demonstrating its practicality.

      Weaknesses:

      Disadvantages include the lack of a systematic evaluation of the impact of each strategy on model performance. Furthermore, some analyses, such as PCA visualization, exhibit low explained variance, which undermines the strength of the conclusions.

      We thank the reviewer for their comments and feedback. 

      The authors state that "Notably, the multiclass classification objective and benchmarks used to evaluate EasIFA made it infeasible to compare performance for the binary catalytic residue prediction task." However, EasIFA has also released a model specifically for binary catalytic site classification. The authors should include EasIFA in their comparisons in order to provide a more comprehensive evaluation of Squidly's performance.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. EasIFA’s binary classification task includes catalytic, binding, and “other” residues, which differs from Squidly’s strict catalytic residue prediction. This makes direct comparison non-trivial, which is why we originally had opted to not benchmark against EasIFA and instead highlight it in our discussion.

      Given your comment, we did our best to include a benchmark that could give an indication of a comparison between the two tools. To do this, we filtered EasIFA’s multiclass classification test dataset for a non-overlapping subset with Squidly and AEGAN training data and <40% sequence identity to all training sets. This left only 66 catalytic residue– containing sequences that we could use as a held-out test set from both tools. We note it is not directly equal as Squidly and AEGAN had lower average identity to this subset (8.2%) than EasIFA (23.8%), placing them at a relative disadvantage.

      We also identified a potential limitation in EasIFA’s original recall calculation, where sequences lacking catalytic residues were assigned a recall of 0. We adapted this to instead consider only the sequences which do have catalytic residues, which increased recall across all models. With the updated evaluation, EasIFA continues to show strong performance, consistent with it being SOTA if structural inputs are available. Squidly remains competitive given it operates solely from sequence and has a lower sequence identity to this specific test set.

      Due to the small and imbalanced benchmark size, differences in training data overlap, and differences in our analysis compared with the original EasIFA analysis, we present this comparison in a new section (A.4) of the supplementary information rather than in the main text. References to this section have been added in the manuscript at lines 265-268. Additionally, we do update the discussion and emphasize the potential benefits of using EasIFA at lines (353-356).

      The manuscript proposes three schemes for constructing positive and negative sample pairs to reduce dataset size and accelerate training, with Schemes 2 and 3 guided by reaction information (EC numbers) and residue identity. However, two issues remain:

      (a) The authors do not systematically evaluate the impact of each scheme on model performance.

      (b) In the benchmarking results, it is not explicitly stated which scheme was used for comparison with other models (e.g., Table 1, Figure 6, Figure 8). This lack of clarity makes it difficult to interpret the results and assess reproducibility.

      (c) Regarding the negative samples in Scheme 3 in Figure 1, no sampling patterns are shown for residue pairs with the same amino acid, different EC numbers, and both being catalytic residues.

      We thank the reviewer for these suggestions, which enabled us to improve the clarity and presentation of the manuscript. Please find our point by point response:

      (a) We thank the reviewer for highlighting the lack of clarity in the way we have presented our evaluation in the section describing the Uni3175 benchmark. We aimed to systematically evaluate the impact of each scheme using the Uni3175 benchmark and refer to these results at lines 244-258, Additionally, we have adjusted the presentation of this section at lines 244-247 also in line with related comments from reviewer 1 in order to make the intention of this section and benchmark results to allow a comparison of each scheme to baseline models and AEGAN. These results led us to use Scheme 3 in both models for the other benchmarks in Figures 2 and 3. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to further improve the interpretability of Squidly’s performance.

      (b) We thank the reviewer for highlighting this issue and improving the clarity of our manuscript. We agree that after the Uni3175 benchmark was used to evaluate the schemes, we did not clearly state in the other benchmarks that scheme 3 was chosen for both the 3B and 15B models. We have made changes in table 1 and the Figure legends of Figures 2 and 3 to state that scheme 3 was used. In addition, we integrated related results into panel figures (e.g. Figures 2 and 3 now show models trained and tested on consistent benchmark datasets) and standardized figure colors and legend formatting throughout. Furthermore, we suspect that the previous switch from using the individual vs ensembled Squidly models during the paper was not well indicated, and likely to confuse the reader. Therefore, we decided to consistently report the ensembled Squidly models for all benchmarks except in the ablation study (Figure 2A). In line with this, we altered the overview Figure 1A, so that it is clearer that the default and intended version of Squidly is the ensemble.

      (c) We appreciate the reviewer pointing this out. You’re correct, we explicitly did not sample the negatives described by the reviewer in scheme 3 as our focus was on the hard negatives that relate most to the binary objective.  We do think this is a great idea and would be worth exploring further in future versions of Squidly, where we will be expanding the label space used for hard-negative sampling and including binding sites in our prediction. We have updated the discussion at lines 395-396 to highlight this potential direction.

      The PCA visualization (Figure 3) explains very little variance (~5% + 1.8%), but its use to illustrate the separability of embedding and catalytic residues may overinterpret the meaning of the low-dimensional projection. We question whether this figure is appropriate for inclusion in the main text and suggest that it be moved to the Supporting Information.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We had discussed this as well, and in the end decided to include it in the main manuscript. We agree that the explained variance is low. However, when we first saw the PCA we were surprised that there was any separation at all. This then prompted us to investigate further, so we kept it in the manuscript to be true to the scientific story. However, we do agree that our interpretation could be interpreted as overly conclusive given the minimal variance explained by the top 2 PCs. Therefore, we agree with the assessment that the figure, alongside the accompanying results section, is more appropriately placed in the supplementary information. We moved this section (A.1) to the appendix to still explain the exploratory data analysis process that we used to tackle this problem, so that the general thought process behind Squidly is available for further reading.  

      Minor Comments:

      (1) Figure Quality and Legends a) In Figure 4, the legend is confusing: "Schemes 2 and 3 (S1 and S2) ..." appears inconsistent, and the reference to Scheme 3 (S3) is not clearly indicated.

      (b) In Figure 6, the legend overlaps with the y-axis labels, reducing readability. The authors should revise the figures to improve clarity and ensure consistent notation.

      The reviewer correctly notes inconsistencies in figure presentation. We have revised the legend of Figure 4 (now 2A) to ensure schemes are referred to consistently and Scheme 3 (S3) is clearly indicated. We also adjusted Figure 6 (now 2c) to remove the overlap between the legend and y-axis labels.  

      Conclusion

      We thank the reviewers and editor again for their constructive input. We believe the revisions and clarifications substantially strengthened the manuscript and the resource

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study used explicit-solvent simulations and coarse-grained models to identify the mechanistic features that allow for the unidirectional motion of SMC on DNA. Shorter explicit-solvent models describe relevant hydrogen bond energetics, which were then encoded in a coarse-grained structure-based model. In the structure-based model, the authors mimic chemical reactions as signaling changes in the energy landscape of the assembly. By cycling through the chemical cycle repeatedly, the authors show how these time-dependent energetic shifts naturally lead SMC to undergo translocation steps along DNA that are on a length scale that has been identified.

      Strengths:

      Simulating large-scale conformational changes in complex assemblies is extremely challenging. This study utilizes highly-detailed models to parameterize a coarse-grained model, thereby allowing the simulations to connect the dynamics of precise atomistic-level interactions with a large-scale conformational rearrangement. This study serves as an excellent example for this overall methodology, where future studies may further extend this approach to investigated any number of complex molecular assemblies.

      We thank the reviewer for careful reading of our manuscript and highlighting the value of our bottom-up multiscale simulation approach.

      Weaknesses:

      The only relative weakness is that the text does not always clearly communicate which aspects of the dynamics are expected to be robust. That is, which aspects of the dynamics/energetics are less precisely described by this model? Where are the limits of the models, and why should the results be considered within the range of applicability of the models?

      We appreciate this insightful comment and agree that it is important to more explicitly describe the robustness and limitations of the simulation model used in this study. In response to this comment, we have revised the Discussion section of our manuscript.

      First, to clarify the robust aspects of our model, we have added a new subsection titled “Parametric choices and robustness of simulation model” to the Discussion, which is as follows:

      “The switching Gō approach adopted in this study is a powerful tool for providing the relationship between known large-scale conformational changes and the resulting functional and mechanical dynamics of the molecular machine (Brandani and Takada, 2018b; Koga and Takada, 2006b; Nagae et al., 2025). In this study, we mimic conformational change induced by ATP binding and hydrolysis events by instantaneously switching the potential energy function from one that stabilized a given conformation to another that stabilized a different conformation. This drives the protein to undergo a conformational transition toward the minimum of the new energy landscape.

      This approach is particularly well suited to investigate whether a given conformational change in a subunit of a molecular machine can produce the overall motion observed, and whether this process is mechanically feasible. Therefore, the fundamental mechanisms identified in this study, i.e., DNA segment capture mechanism, the correlation between step size and loop length, and the unidirectional translocation mechanism originating from the asymmetric kleisin path, can be considered as robust, as they emerge directly from the structural and topological constraints of the SMC-kleisin architecture rather than from tuned parameters.”

      Additionally, to more clearly define the limits of our model, we have expanded the "Limitations in current simulations" subsection. Specifically, we have added a detailed discussion regarding the energetics and transition pathways inherent to the switching Gō approach, which is as follows:

      “First, use of switching potentials to trigger conformational changes impose a limitation on predictive power for energetics and transition pathways. The switching of potentials is akin to a “vertical excitation” from one energy landscape to another, rather than a thermally activated crossing of an energy barrier. Consequently, the model cannot provide quantitative predictions of the transition rates or the free energy barriers associated with these changes. Furthermore, while the subsequent relaxation follows the new potential landscape, it is not guaranteed to reproduce the unique, physically correct transition pathway. Nevertheless, this simplification is justified because conformational changes within the protein are expected to occur on a much faster timescale than the large-scale motion of the DNA. Thus, this simplification has a limited impact on our main conclusions regarding the functional DNA dynamics driven by these large-scale conformational changes.”

      We have not made any additions regarding the timescale and dwell times for each ATP state, as these were already discussed in the original manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors perform coarse grained and all atom simulations to provide a mechanism for loop extrusion that is involved in genome compaction.

      Strengths:

      The simulations are very thoughtful. They provide insights into the translocation process, which is only one of the mechanisms. Much of the analyses is very good. Over all the study advances the use of simulations in this complicated systems.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for their thoughtful and encouraging comments.

      Weaknesses:

      Even the authors point out several limitations, which cannot be easily overcome in the paper because of the paucity of experimental data. Nevertheless, the authors could have done so to illustrate the main assertion that loop extrusion occurs by the motor translocating on DNA. They should mention more clearly that there are alternative theories that have accounted for a number of experimental data.

      We thank the reviewer for these constructive suggestions. As the reviewer pointed out, it is important to state more explicitly how the unidirectional DNA translocation revealed in this study relates to the widely recognized loop-extrusion hypothesis of genome organization and situate our findings with the context of major alternative theories.

      To address this, we first clarify the relationship between the translocation mechanism we observed and the phenomenon of loop extrusion. We emphasize that our simulations were designed to elucidate the core motor activity of the SMC complex, and we explicitly state our view that loop extrusion is a functional consequence of this motor activity when the complex is anchored to DNA.

      Second, as the reviewer also suggested, we addressed alternative models of loop extrusion that also have experimental support in more details. We have revised the Discussion accordingly to provide a more balanced and comprehensive context. Further details are provided in our separate response to the comment below.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Yamauchi and colleagues combine all-atom and coarse-grained MD simulations to investigate the mechanism of DNA translocation by prokaryotic SMC complexes. Their multiscale approach is well-justified and supports a segment-capture model in which ATP-dependent conformational changes lead to the unidirectional translocation of DNA. A key insight from the study is that asymmetry in the kleisin path enforces directionality. The work introduces an innovative computational framework that captures key features of SMC motor action, including DNA binding, conformational switching, and translocation.

      This work is well executed and timely, and the methodology offers a promising route for probing other large molecular machines where ATP activity is essential.

      Strengths:

      This manuscript introduces an innovative yet simple method that merges all-atom and coarse-grained, purely equilibrium, MD simulations to investigate DNA translocation by SMC complexes, which is triggered by activated ATP processes. Investigating the impact of ATP on large molecular motors like SMC complexes is extremely challenging, as ATP catalyses a series of chemical reactions that take and keep the system out of equilibrium. The authors simulate the ATP cycle by cycling through distinct equilibrium simulations where the force field changes according to whether the system is assumed to be in the disengaged, engaged, and V-shaped states; this is very clever as it avoids attempting to model the non-equilibrium process of ATP hydrolysis explicitly. This equilibrium switching approach is shown to be an effective way to probe the mechanistic consequences of ATP binding and hydrolysis in the SMC complex system.

      The simulations reveal several important features of the translocation mechanism. These include identifying that a DNA segment of ~200 bp is captured in the engaged state and pumped forward via coordinated conformational transitions, yielding a translocation step size in good agreement with experimental estimates. Hydrogen bonding between DNA and the top of the ATPase heads is shown to be critical for segment capturtrans, as without it, translocation is shown to fail. Finally, asymmetry in the kleisin subunit path is shown to be responsible for unidirectionally.

      This work highlights how molecular simulations are an excellent complement to experiments, as they can exploit experimental findings to provide high-resolution mechanistic views currently inaccessible to experiments. The findings of these simulations are plausible and expand our understanding of how ATP hydrolysis induces directional motion of the SMC complex.

      We thank the reviewer for the thoughtful and encouraging assessment of our work. We appreciate the reviewer’s summary of our key contributions, especially our switching Gō strategy, the segment-capture mechanism of SMC translocation, and the role of kleisin-path asymmetry in ensuring unidirectionality.

      Weaknesses:

      There are aspects of the methodology and modelling assumptions that are not clear and could be better justified. The major ones are listed below:

      (1) The all-atom MD simulations involve a 47-bp DNA duplex interacting with the ATPase heads, from which key residues involved in hydrogen bonding are identified. However, DNA mechanics-including flexibility and hydrogen bond formation-are known to be sequence-dependent. The manuscript uses a single arbitrary sequence but does not discuss potential biases. Could the authors comment on how sequence variability might affect binding geometry or the number of hydrogen bonds observed?

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment regarding the potential effects of DNA sequence.

      The primary biological role of the SMC complex is to organize genome architecture on a global scale; as such, its fundamental interaction with DNA is considered not to be sequence-specific. Our all-atom MD simulations and analysis pipeline were designed to probe the nature of this general interaction. Our approach confirms this rationale: the analysis exclusively identified hydrogen bonds formed between amino acid residues and the phosphate groups of the DNA's sugar-phosphate backbone. As shown in Figs. 1B and 1C, the results confirm that the key stabilizing interactions occur between basic residues on the SMC head surface and the DNA backbone. Since the backbone is chemically uniform, the stable binding mode we characterized is inherently sequence-independent.

      While the final bound state is likely sequence-independent, we agree that sequence-dependent properties such as local DNA flexibility or intrinsic curvature could influence the kinetics of the binding process. For example, the rate of initial recognition or the ease of DNA bending on the head surface might vary between AT-rich and GC-rich regions. However, once the DNA is bound, we expect the stable binding geometry and the identity of the key interacting residues to be conserved across different sequences.

      Therefore, we are confident that using a single, representative DNA sequence is a valid approach for elucidating the fundamental, non-sequence-specific aspects of SMC-DNA interaction and does not alter the general validity of the translocation mechanism proposed in this work.

      (2) A key feature of the coarse-grained model is the inclusion of a specific hydrogen-bonding potential between DNA and residues on the ATPase heads. The authors select the top 15 hydrogen-bond-forming residues from the all-atom simulations (with contact probability > 0.05), but the rationale for this cutoff is not explained. Also, the strength of hydrogen bonds in coarse-grained models can be sensitive to context. How did the authors calibrate the strength of this interaction relative to electrostatics, and did they test its robustness (e.g., by varying epsilon or residue set)? Could this interaction be too strong or too weak under certain ionic conditions? What happens when salt is changed?

      Thank you for these comments. We provide our rationale for the parameter choices below.

      The contact probability cutoff of 0.05 was chosen to create a comprehensive set of residues that form physically robust interactions with DNA. To establish this robustness, we performed a parallel set of all-atom simulations using a different force field (see Fig. S2). This cross-validation revealed two key points. First, the top six residues (Arg120, Arg123, Ile63, Arg111, Arg62, and Lys56), which include experimentally confirmed DNA-binding sites, consistently exhibited the highest contact probabilities in both force fields, confirming the reliability of our identification. Second, and just as importantly, many residues with lower contact probabilities (e.g., Trp115, Tyr107, Arg105, Ser124, and Ser54) were also consistently detected across both simulations. This reproducibility suggests that these interactions are physically robust and not artifacts of a specific force field. We therefore concluded that a 0.05 cutoff is a well-balanced threshold that ensures the inclusion of not only the primary anchor residues but also the secondary, moderately interacting residues that are crucial for cooperatively stabilizing the DNA. We discussed this point in Method in the revised manuscript, which is as follows:

      “The rationale for this cutoff is the physical robustness of the identified interactions; all-atom simulations using a different force field confirmed that the same set of key interacting residues, including both strong and moderate binders, was consistently identified (Fig. S2).”

      The strength of the hydrogen bond potential was set to ϵ = 4.0 k​T (≈2.4 kcal/mol), a physically plausible value corresponding to an ideal hydrogen bond. To test the robustness of this parameterization, we performed preliminary simulations where we varied these parameters by (i) reducing the value of ϵ and (ii) restricting the interaction to only the top six anchor residues. In both test cases, while a short DNA duplex (47 bp) could still bind to the ATPase heads, simulations with a long DNA (800 bp) failed to form a stable DNA loop after initial docking. These tests demonstrated that a larger set of cooperative interactions with a physically realistic strength was necessary for the full segment capture mechanism. Our final parameter set (15 residues at ϵ = 4.0 k​T) was thus chosen as the parameter set required to capture both the initial anchoring of DNA and the subsequent cooperative stabilization of the captured loop.

      As correctly pointed out, ionic conditions are a critical factor. Our simulations revealed that the salt concentration had a more pronounced effect on the kinetics of the DNA finding its correct binding site rather than on the thermodynamic stability of the final bound state. During our parameter tuning, we found that at physiological salt conditions (150 mM), long-range electrostatic interactions become dominant. This caused the DNA to be non-specifically captured by positively charged patches on the sides of the heads, which are not the functional binding sites. This off-pathway trapping kinetically prevented the DNA from reaching its proper location within the simulation timeframe. In contrast, the high-salt conditions (300 mM) used in this study screen these long-range interactions, suppressing non-specific trapping and allowing the DNA to efficiently explore the protein surface. This enables the correct binding to be established via the specific, short-range hydrogen bonds. Therefore, the ion concentration in our model is more as a crucial kinetic control factor to reproduce correct binding pathway within a realistic simulation timeframe. This point is discussed in the new subsection entitled “Parametric choices and robustness of simulation model”.

      (3) To enhance sampling, the translocation simulations are run at 300 mM monovalent salt. While this is argued to be physiological for Pyrococcus yayanosii, such a concentration also significantly screens electrostatics, possibly altering the interaction landscape between DNA and protein or among protein domains. This may significantly impact the results of the simulations. Why did the authors not use enhanced sampling methods to sample rare events instead of relying on a high-salt regime to accelerate dynamics?

      We agree that enhanced sampling methods are powerful for exploring rare events. However, many of these techniques require the pre-definition of a suitable, low-dimensional reaction coordinate (RC) to guide the simulation. The primary goal of our study was to discover the DNA translocation mechanism as it emerges naturally from fundamental physical interactions, without imposing a priori assumptions about the specific pathway.

      The DNA segment capture process is complex, involving the coordinated motion of a long DNA polymer and multiple protein domains. Defining a simple RC in advance was not feasible and would have carried a significant risk of biasing the system toward an artificial pathway. Therefore, to avoid such bias, we chose to perform direct, unbiased molecular dynamics simulations. Using a physiologically relevant high-salt concentration (300 mM) for Pyrococcus yayanosii was a strategy to accelerate the system's natural dynamics, allowing us to observe these unbiased trajectories within a feasible computational timescale.

      Because our current work has elucidated the fundamental steps of this mechanism, we agree that this work provides a foundation for more quantitative analyses. As suggested, future studies using methods like Markov State Model analysis or enhanced sampling techniques, guided by more sophisticated RCs defined from the insights of this work, would be a valuable next step for characterizing the free-energy landscape of the process or longer time scale dynamics.

      (4) Only a small fraction of the simulated trajectories complete successful translocation (e.g., 45 of 770 in one set), and this is attributed to insufficient simulation time. While the authors are transparent about this, it raises questions about the reliability of inferred success rates and about possible artefacts (e.g., DNA trapping in coiled-coil arms). Could the authors explore or at least discuss whether alternative sampling strategies (e.g., Markov State Models, transition path sampling) might address this limitation more systematically?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point that is crucial for considering limitations and future directions of our study.

      As we noted in a previous response, the primary reason we did not employ such enhanced sampling methods was the limited prior knowledge available to define previously uncharacterized DNA translocation process. Therefore, we first try to define the key conformational states and transitions without the potential bias of a predefined model or reaction coordinate. This approach was successful, as it allowed us to identify critical on-pathway states like “DNA segment capture” and significant off-pathway or kinetically trapped states such as 'DNA trapping' between the coiled-coil arms.

      We fully agree that the low success rate observed is a key finding that points to significant kinetic bottlenecks, and that a more systematic analysis is required. Having identified the essential states, applying techniques such as Markov State Models (MSMs) or transition path sampling represents a powerful and logical next step. These methods, using a state-space definition based on our findings, will enable a quantitative characterization of the free-energy landscape and the transition rates between states. This will provide a rigorous understanding of the kinetic factors, such as the depth of the trapped-state energy well, that underlie the low translocation efficiency.

      In the revised manuscript, we discuss the application of these advanced sampling methods as a feasible and promising future direction, which is as follows:

      “Future studies can leverage the insights from this work to overcome the current timescale limitations. Techniques such as Markov state modeling (Husic and Pande, 2018; Prinz et al., 2011) or enhanced sampling methods (Hénin et al., 2022) may be employed to quantitatively characterize the free-energy landscape and transition rates. Such an approach would provide a rigorous understanding of the kinetic barriers, such as the stability of the trapped state, that govern the efficiency of SMC translocation.”

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      As noted in the public review, there could be a more systematic description of the limits of the model. The model appears to be carefully crafted, though every model has limits. It could be helpful for the general readership to give some idea of which parametric choices are more critical, and which mechanistic features should be robust to minor changes in parameters.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for this constructive comment. We agree that clarifying which aspects of our model is robust and sensitive to specific parameter choices is crucial for the reader's understanding.

      We have expanded the Discussion to clarify how specific simulation parameters affect the efficiency and success rate of DNA translocation in our coarse-grained simulations. In particular, we have added a description of the parametric choices for (i) selection and strength of hydrogen bonds, (ii) ionic strength, and (iii) interaction strength between the coiled-coil arms. The discussion can be found in subsection entitled “Parametric choice and robustness of simulation model” in the Discussion, which is as follows:

      “On the other hand, the efficiency and success rate of DNA translocation in our simulations are more sensitive to certain parametric choices. For instance, the selection and strength of hydrogen bond-like interactions are a key factor. Our model incorporates specific hydrogen bonds between the upper surface of the ATPase heads and DNA, based on all-atom simulations. These interactions are essential for initiating segment capture; without them, DNA fails to migrate to the correct binding surface. While the identification of these key residues is a robust finding—persisting across different all-atom force fields (Fig. S2)—their strength and number in the coarse-grained potential are critical parameters that directly influence the probability and kinetics of DNA capture. Another critical parameter is the ionic strength. We performed translocation simulations at an ionic strength of 300 mM to accelerate DNA dynamics. At lower concentrations, non-specific electrostatic interactions between DNA and positively charged patches on the sides of the ATPase heads or coiled-coil arm became dominant, hindering the efficient migration of DNA to its functional binding site. Using a higher-than-physiological ionic strength is a justified practice in coarse-grained simulations employing the Debye-Hückel approximation, as it serves as a first-order correction to mimic the strong local charge screening by condensed counterions that is not explicitly captured by the mean-field model (Brandani et al., 2021; Niina et al., 2017b). Finaly, the interaction strength between the coiled-coil arms is also important. In our model, once the arms closed during the transition from the V-shaped to the disengaged state, they remained closed on the simulated timescale, frequently trapping DNA pushed from the hinge and thereby leading to failed translocation. This behavior suggests that the arm–arm interactions may be overestimated. A parameterization that allows for more frequent, transient opening of the arms could increase the success rate of DNA pumping.”

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      This paper reports simulations (all atom and coarse grained) to provide molecular details of loop extrusion. In general, it is a well done paper. There are a few issues that the authors should address.

      (1) The study supposes that loop extrusion occurs by translocation. Although they point out alternate models like scrunching (C Dekker; the theory by Takaki is also based on the scrunching model that the authors should mention), they should discuss this further. After all, the Takaki theory does predict several experimental outcomes very accurately. The precise mechanism has not been nailed down - The paper by Terakawa in Science suggests the extrusion is by translocation, but the evidence is not clear.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. We agree that our discussion should briefly acknowledge alternative models such as scrunching. We have therefore revised the manuscript to mention the theory by Takaki et al. (Nat. Commun., 2021), which reproduces several experimental outcomes.

      Because our present work specifically addresses the translocation mechanism based on DNA segment capture, we now state that scrunching and related models represent alternative proposals for loop extrusion.

      In this revision, we have added discussion to the end of the subsection titled "DNA segment capture as the mechanism of the DNA translocation by SMC complexes." in the Discussion section, which is as follows:

      “Turning to loop extrusion mechanisms, alternative mechanisms have been proposed in addition to the DNA-segment capture model. For example, Takaki et al. developed a scrunching-based theory that quantitatively accounts for several experimental observations, including force-velocity relationships and step-size distributions. While our present study focuses on the DNA translocation mechanism via segment capture, it is important to note that scrunching and other models remain plausible alternatives for loop extrusion. The precise mechanism may depends on the specific SMC complex and their subunits and remains to be fully resolved.”

      (2) It is unclear how one can say from Figure 4I and J that translocation has taken place. These panels show that the base pair length increases. This should be explained more clearly. They should also simultaneously plot the location of the heads (2D plot).

      Thank you for this valuable suggestion. In response to the comment on how translocation is presented in Fig. 4I and J, we have revised the text to make it clear that the SMC complex moves along DNA in subsection entitled “DNA translocation via DNA-segment capture”, as follows:

      “Fig. 4I represents the one-dimensional contour coordinate of the DNA molecule, indexed by base pairs (1-800). In this plot, translocation is visualized as a discontinuous shift in the range of base-pair indices that the SMC complex contacts over one complete ATP cycle”

      “This translocation is recorded in Fig. 4I as the average coordinate of the kleisin contact region (red dots) jumps from ~400 bp before the cycle to ~600bp after, which corresponds to a translocation event of ~200 bp”

      We believe that adding this explanation makes it clearer to readers that Fig. 4I and 4J provide direct evidence for unidirectional translocation of the SMC complex.

      (3) The transitions between the states are very abrupt (see Figure 2). Please explain. Also, in which state does extrusion take place? What is the role of the V-shape - is it part of the ATPase cycle?

      We thank the reviewer for raising these questions.

      In our simulation, we implemented ATP-binding state change by instantaneously switching the structure-based (Gō-type) potential between reference conformations for the disengaged (apo), engaged (ATP-bound), and V-shaped (ADP-bound) states at predetermined times. The system rapidly relaxes along the new funnel-shaped potential energy surface toward its minimum. This rapid relaxation is why the transition appears abrupt in metrics such as the Q-score in Fig.2.

      The V-shaped state corresponds to a key ADP-bound intermediate within the ATP hydrolysis cycle. Its primary role in our model is preparatory; it establishes the necessary open geometry that allows for the subsequent "zipping" of the coiled-coil arms. Crucially, unidirectional pumping motion is generated during the transition from the V-shaped state to the disengaged state. That is, the zipping motion of the coiled-coil arm pushes the captured DNA segment forward, resulting in a net translocation along the DNA.

      (4) It appears the heads do not move between the disengaged to engaged states. Why not in their model?

      Thank you for pointing out the lack of clarity in explanation of the SMC head movement in our simulations.

      In our model, the transition from the disengaged to the engaged state involves a dynamic rearrangement of the SMC heads. Specifically, one ATPase head slides (~10 Å) and rotates (~85°) relative to the other ATPase head to re-associate at a new dimer interface. This movement drives the global conformational change of the complex from a rod-like shape to an open ring, a mechanism proposed in a previous structural study (Diebold-Durand et al., Mol. Cell, 2017).

      As reviewer 2 noted, this crucial motion, which is reflected in the changing head-head distance and hinge angle in Fig. 2A, was not sufficiently highlighted in the text. We have therefore revised the manuscript to explicitly describe this head rearrangement to improve clarity, which is as follows:

      “Upon transition to the engaged state, the two ATPase heads were quickly rearranged to form the new inter-subunit contacts. Specifically, this rearrangement involves one ATPase head sliding by approximately 10 Å and rotating by 85° relative to the other, allowing it to associate through a different interface (Diebold-Durand et al., 2017b). The fractions of formed contacts, Q-scores, that exist at the disengaged (engaged) states quickly decreased (increased) (Fig. 2A, top two plots).”

      (5) What is pumping - it has been used in Marko NAR in the DNA capture model. How is that illustrated in the simulations?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. In the context of the DNA segment-capture model by Marko et al. (NAR, 2019), "pumping" refers to the conceptual process where a DNA loop, captured in an upper compartment of the SMC ring, is transferred to a lower compartment, resulting in net translocation.

      Our simulations provide a direct, molecular-resolution visualization of the physical mechanism underlying this concept. We illustrate that the "pumping" action is not a passive transfer but an active, mechanical process driven by a specific conformational change. This occurs during the transition from the V-shaped (ADP-bound) to the disengaged state. As shown in our trajectories, the two coiled-coil arms close in a zipper-like manner, beginning from the hinge and progressing toward the ATPase heads. This zipping motion physically pushes the captured DNA segment from the hinge region toward the kleisin ring.

      This process is visualized in our simulations as a clear, unidirectional translocation step (see Figs. 4B–D, 4I, and S6). The result is a net forward movement of the DNA by a distance that corresponds to the length of the initially captured loop, a key prediction of the Marko’s model that we quantify in our step-size analysis (Figs. 4K–L and S8).

      To make this point clearer for the reader, we have revised the manuscript. We have explicitly defined this "zipping and pushing" action as the physical basis for the "pumping" mechanism in the subsection titled "Zipping motion of coiled-coil arms pushes the DNA from hinge domain toward kleisin ring", which is as follows:.

      “This active, mechanical pushing of the DNA loop, driven by the sequential closing of the coiled-coil arm, constitutes the physical basis of the “pumping” mechanism that drives unidirectional translocation. Our simulations thus provide a concrete, molecular-level visualization for this key step in the DNA segment-capture model.”

      (6) The length of DNA simulated is small for understandable reasons. Both experiments and theory show that loop extrusion sizes can be very large, far exceeding the sizes of the SMA complex. Could the small size of DNA be affecting the results?

      We thank the reviewer for this important comment. The relationship between our simulated system size and the large-scale phenomena observed experimentally is a key point.

      Our study was specifically designed to elucidate the fundamental mechanism of the elementary, single-cycle translocation step at near-atomic resolution. For this purpose, the 800 bp DNA length was sufficient. The observed translocation step size per cycle was 216 ± 71 bp, which is substantially smaller than the total length of the simulated DNA. This confirms that the boundaries of our system did not artificially constrain the core translocation process we aimed to investigate. Therefore, we think that the DNA length used in this study did not systematically bias our main findings regarding the motor mechanism itself.

      As the reviewer pointed out, on the other hand, our current setup cannot reproduce the formation of kilobase-scale loops. We hypothesize that these large-scale events are intrinsically linked to the stochastic nature of the ATP hydrolysis cycle, which was simplified in our simulation model. We used fixed durations for each state for computational feasibility. In a more realistic scenario, a stochastically prolonged engaged state would provide a larger duration time for a captured DNA loop to grow via thermal diffusion. This could lead to occasional, much larger translocation steps upon ATP hydrolysis, contributing to the large loop sizes seen experimentally.

      (7) Minor point: The first CG model using three sites was introduced in PNAS vol 102, 6789 2005. The authors should consider citing it.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We have now cited the paper the reviewer recommended. Please find subsection entitled Coarse-grained simulations in Materials and Methods.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This is an interesting manuscript aimed at improving the transcriptome characterization of 52 C. elegans neuron classes. Previous single-cell RNA seq studies already uncovered transcriptomes for these, but the data are incomplete, with a bias against genes with lower expression levels. Here, the authors use cell-specific reporter combinations to FACS purify neurons and use bulk RNA sequencing to obtain better sequencing depth. This reveals more rare transcripts, as well as non-coding RNAs, pseudo genes, etc. The authors develop computational approaches to combine the bulk and scRNA transcriptome results to obtain more definitive gene lists for the neurons examined.

      To ultimately understand features of any cell, from morphology to function, an understanding of the full complement of the genes it expresses is a pre-requisite. This paper gets us a step closer to this goal, assembling a current "definitive list" of genes for a large proportion of C. elegans neurons. The computational approaches used to generate the list are based on reasonable assumptions, the data appear to have been treated appropriately statistically, and the conclusions are generally warranted. I have a few issues that the authors may chose to address:

      (1) As part of getting rid of cross contamination in the bulk data, the authors model the scRNA data, extrapolate it to the bulk data and subtract out "contaminant" cell types. One wonders, however, given that low expressed genes are not represented in the scRNA data, whether the assignment of a gene to one or another cell type can really be made definitve. Indeed, it's possible that a gene is expressed at low levels in one cell, and in high levels in another, and would therefore be considered a contaminant. The result would be to throw out genes that actually are expressed in a given cell type. The definitive list would therefore be a conservative estimate, and not necessarily the correct estimate.

      (2) It would be quite useful to have tested some genes with lower expression levels using in vivo gene-fusion reporters to assess whether the expression assignments hold up as predicted. i.e. provide another avenue of experimentation, non-computational, to confirm that the decontamination algorithm works.

      (3) In many cases, each cell class would be composed of at least 2 if not more neurons. Is it possible that differences between members of a single class would be missed by applying the cleanup algorithms? Such transcripts would be represented only in a fraction of the cells isolated by scRNAseq, and might then be considered not real?

      (4) I didn't quite catch whether the precise staging of animals was matched between the bulk and scRNAseq datasets. Importantly, there are many genes whose expression is highly stage specific or age specific so that even slight temporal difference might yield different sets of gene expression.

      (5) To what extent does FACS sorting affect gene expression? Can the authors provide some controls?

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have made reasonable arguments in response to my questions, and have done some additional experiments. I believe that although they did not do so, they could have generated additional reporters for the lower expressed genes, that would have validated their method of data integration. Nonetheless, I think the paper is rigorous and will be of use to the community.

    2. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary

      This study aims to overcome key limitations of single-cell RNA-seq in C. elegans neurons-especially the under-detection of lowly expressed and non-polyadenylated transcripts and residual contamination-by integrating bulk RNA-seq from FACS-isolated neuron types with an existing scRNA-seq atlas. The authors introduce LittleBites, an iterative, reference-guided decontamination algorithm that uses a single-cell reference together with ground-truth reporter datasets to optimize subtraction of contaminating signal from bulk profiles. They then generate an "Integrated" dataset that combines the sensitivity of bulk data with the specificity of scRNA-seq and use it to call neuron-specific expression for protein-coding genes, "rescued" genes not detected in scRNA-seq, and multiple classes of non-coding RNAs across 53 neuron classes. All data, code, and thresholded matrices are made publicly available to enable community reuse.

      Strengths

      (1) Conceptual advance and useful resource. The work demonstrates in a concrete way how bulk and single-cell datasets can be combined to overcome the weaknesses of each approach, and delivers a high-resolution transcriptomic resource for a substantial fraction of C. elegans neuron classes . The integrated matrices, thresholded expression calls, and non-coding RNA catalog will be useful both for basic neurobiology and for method developers.

      (2) Careful benchmarking and transparency. The revised manuscript includes extensive benchmarking of LittleBites and the Integrated dataset against multiple independent "ground-truth" sets: neuron-specific reporter lines, curated non-neuronal markers, and ubiquitous genes. The authors evaluate AUROCs over a wide range of thresholds, explain ROC/AUROC metrics for non-specialists, and quantify how integration affects both sensitivity and specificity relative to scRNA-seq alone.

      (3) Improved methodological clarity. In response to review, the authors now provide a much more intuitive description of the LittleBites algorithm, including a stepwise explanation of (1) contamination estimation via NNLS using single-cell references, (2) weighted subtraction tuned by a learning-rate parameter, and (3) performance optimization based on AUROC against ground-truth genes. this makes the approach accessible to readers who are not computational specialists and will facilitate re-implementation.

      (4) Systematic analysis of reference dependence. The authors explicitly address the concern that LittleBites depends on the completeness and accuracy of the scRNA-seq reference. They examine how performance varies with cluster size and by simulated degradation of the reference (e.g., reducing the number of cells per cluster), and show that AUROCs remain robust, but that gene-level assignments are more variable for clusters represented by fewer cells. This is an important and honest characterization of when the method is reliable and when users should be cautious.

      (5) Additional biological context. The manuscript now more clearly situates the dataset in the context of previous and ongoing work. In particular, the authors highlight that other groups have already used these bulk data to discover and validate cell-type-specific alternative splicing events, strengthening the case that the data are biologically meaningful beyond the immediate analyses presented here. The expanded analysis of non-coding RNAs and GPCR pseudogenes also adds biological interest.

      (6) Improved handling and documentation of "unexpressed" genes. The authors have trimmed the original list of 4,440 genes called "unexpressed" in scRNA-seq to a higher-confidence subset and provide new supplementary tables that include gene identities and tissue annotations. They also use a curated set of non-neuronal markers to estimate residual contamination and show that most such markers are not detected in the integrated data, with only a small number of apparent false positives remaining.

      Weaknesses

      (1) Novel assignments remain predictive rather than experimentally validated. Although the authors have strengthened their benchmarking and refer to external work that validates some splicing patterns from these data, the large sets of newly assigned lowly expressed genes and non-coding RNAs-particularly those rescued from the "unexpressed" gene pool-are still inferred from computational criteria (thresholding plus correlation-based decontamination) rather than direct orthogonal assays (e.g., smFISH, in situ hybridization, or reporter lines). This is understandable given scale and cost, but it means that many of these calls should be interpreted as well-supported predictions, not definitive expression maps. The revised manuscript acknowledges this, and a dedicated "Limitations of this study" subsection will further clarify this point for readers.

      (2) Reduced stability for neuron types with sparse single-cell representation. The authors' new analyses show that while integration improves overall correlation and AUROC across a wide range of neuron types, gene-level assignments are less stable for neuron classes represented by relatively few cells in the scRNA-seq reference. For such neuron types, both false negatives and false positives are more likely, and users should be cautious when interpreting cell-type-specific expression differences based solely on these calls.

      (3) Residual contamination and misclassification are not completely eliminated. Despite the careful design of LittleBites and the additional correlation-based decontamination of "unexpressed" genes, the authors' benchmarking against curated non-neuronal markers shows that a small fraction of putative non-neuronal genes remains detectable even at stricter thresholds, and some bona fide neuronal genes are removed as likely contaminants. The new supplementary tables documenting "unexpressed" genes and their tissue annotations, together with explicit statements about residual error rates and the predictive nature of these classifications, help users to judge the reliability of specific genes, but they also underscore that the dataset is not a perfect ground truth.

      (4) Scope and coverage remain incomplete. As the authors note, the dataset covers 53 neuron classes and does not fully represent all 302 neurons or all known neuron subtypes. In addition, bulk samples represent pools of neurons, and so the approach cannot resolve within-class heterogeneity or subtype-specific expression within those pools. These are inherent limitations of the current experimental design rather than flaws in the analysis, but they are important for readers to keep in mind when using the resource.

      Overall, the revised manuscript presents solid evidence for the main methodological and resource claims, with clearly articulated limitations. The work is likely to have valuable impact on the C. elegans community and provides a template for integrating bulk and single-cell data in other systems.

    3. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      (1) As part of getting rid of cross-contamination in the bulk data, the authors model the scRNA data, extrapolate it to the bulk data and subtract out "contaminant" cell types. One wonders, however, given that low expressed genes are not represented in the scRNA data, whether the assignment of a gene to one or another cell type can really be made definitive. Indeed, it's possible that a gene is expressed at low levels in one cell, and high levels in another, and would therefore be considered a contaminant. The result would be to throw out genes that actually are expressed in a given cell type. The definitive list would therefore be a conservative estimate, and not necessarily the correct estimate.

      We agree that the various strategies we employ do not result in perfect annotation of gene expression. However, despite their limitations, they are significantly better than either the single cell or the bulk data alone. We represent these strengths and shortcomings throughout the manuscript (for example, in ROC curves).

      (2) It would be quite useful to have tested some genes with lower expression levels using in vivo gene-fusion reporters to assess whether the expression assignments hold up as predicted. i.e. provide another avenue of experimentation, non-computational, to confirm that the decontamination algorithm works.

      We agree that evaluating only highly-expressed genes might introduce bias. We used a large battery of in vivo reporters, made with best-available technology (CRISPR insertion of the fluorophore into the endogenous locus) to evaluate our approaches. These reporters were constructed without bias in terms of gene expression and therefore represent both high and low expression levels. These data are represented throughout the manuscript (for example, in ROC curves). Details about the battery of reporters may be found in Taylor et al 2021. In addition to these reporters, this manuscript also generates and analyzes two other types of gene sets: non-neuronal and ubiquitous genes. Again, these genes are selected without bias toward gene expression, and the techniques presented here are benchmarked against them as well, with positive results.

      (3) In many cases, each cell class would be composed of at least 2 if not more neurons. Is it possible that differences between members of a single class would be missed by applying the cleanup algorithms? Such transcripts would be represented only in a fraction of the cells isolated by scRNAseq, and might then be considered not real.

      For the data set presented in this manuscript, all cells of a single neuron type were labeled and isolated together by FACS, and sequencing libraries were constructed from this pool of cells. Thus, potential subtypes within a particular type (when that type includes more than one cell) cannot be resolved by this method. By contrast, such subtypes were in some cases resolved in the single cell approach. To make the two data sets compatible with each other, for the single cell data we combined any subtypes together. We state in the Methods:

      “For this work, single cell clusters of neuron subtypes were collapsed to the resolution of the bulk replicates (example: VB and VB1 clusters in the single cell data were treated as one VB cluster).”

      (4) I didn't quite catch whether the precise staging of animals was matched between the bulk and scRNAseq datasets. Importantly, there are many genes whose expression is highly stage-specific or age-specific so even slight temporal differences might yield different sets of gene expression.

      We agree that accurate staging is critically important for valid comparisons between data sets and have included an additional supplemental table with staging metadata for each sample. The staging protocol used for the bulk data set was initially employed to generate scRNA seq data and should be comparable. An additional description of our approach is now included in Methods:

      “Populations of synchronized L1s were grown at 23 C until reaching the L4 stage on 150 mM 8P plates inoculated with Na22. The time in culture to reach the L4 stage varied (40.5-49 h) and was determined for each strain. 50-100 animals were inspected with a 40X DIC objective to determine developmental stage as scored by vulval morphology (Mok et al., 2025). Cultures were predominantly composed of L4 larvae but also typically included varying fractions of L3 larvae and adults.”

      We have also updated supplementary table 1 to include additional information about each sort including the observed developmental stages and their proportions when available, the temperature the worms were grown at, the genotype of each experiment, and the number of cells collected in FACS.

      (5) To what extent does FACS sorting affect gene expression? Can the authors provide some controls?

      We appreciate this suggestion. We agree that FACS sorting (and also dissociation of the animals prior to sorting) might affect gene expression, particularly of stress-related transcripts. We note that dissociation and FACS sorting was also used to collect cells for our single cell data set (Taylor et al 2021). We would note that clean controls for this approach can be prohibitively difficult to collect, as the process of dissociation and FACS will inevitably change the proportion of cell types present in the sample, and for bulk sequencing efforts it is difficult even with deconvolution approaches to accurately account for changes in gene expression that result from dissociation and FACS, versus changes in gene expression that result from differences in cell type composition. We regrettably omitted a discussion of these issues in the manuscript. We now write in the Results:

      “The dissociation and FACS steps used to isolate neuron types induce cellular stress responsive pathways (van den Brink et al., 2017; Kaletsky et al., 2016, Taylor 2021). Genes associated with this stress response (Taylor 2021) were not removed from downstream analyses, but should be viewed with caution.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The bulk RNA-seq data collected by the authors has high levels of contamination and, in some cases, is based on very few cells. The methodology to remove contamination partly makes up for this shortcoming, but the high background levels of contaminating RNA in the FACS-isolated neurons limit the confidence in cell-specific transcripts.

      We agree that these are the limitations of the source data. One of the manuscript’s main goals is to analyze and refine these source data, reducing these limitations and quantifying the results.

      The study does not experimentally validate any of the refined gene expression predictions, which was one of the main strengths of the initial CenGEN publication (Taylor et al, 2021). No validation experiments (e.g., fluorescence reporters or single molecule FISH) were performed for protein-coding or non-coding genes, which makes it difficult for the reader to assess how much gene predictions are improved, other than for the gold standard set, which may have specific characteristics (e.g., bias toward high expression as they were primarily identified in fluorescence reporter experiments).

      We agree that evaluating only highly-expressed genes might introduce bias. We used a large battery of in vivo reporters, made with best-available technology (CRISPR insertion of the fluorophore into the endogenous locus) to evaluate our approaches. These reporters were constructed without bias in terms of gene expression and therefore represent both high and low expression levels. These data are represented throughout the manuscript (for example, in ROC curves). Details about the battery of reporters may be found in Taylor et al 2021. In addition to these reporters, this manuscript also generates and analyzes two other types of gene sets: non-neuronal and ubiquitous genes. Again, these genes are selected without bias toward gene expression, and the techniques presented here are benchmarked against them as well, with positive results.

      The study notes that bulk RNA-seq data, in contrast to scRNA-seq data, can be used to identify which isoforms are expressed in a given cell. However, no analysis or genome browser tracks were supplied in the study to take advantage of this important information. For the community, isoform-specific expression could guide the design of cell-specific expression constructs or for predictive modeling of gene expression based on machine learning.

      We strongly agree that these datasets allow for new discoveries in neuronal splicing patterns and regulators, which is explored further in other publications from our group and other research groups in the field. We did not sufficiently highlight these works in the body of our text, and have added a reference in the discussion. “In addition, the bulk RNA-seq dataset contains transcript information across the gene body, which parallel efforts have used to identify mRNA splicing patterns that are not found in the scRNA-seq dataset.” These works can be found in references 26 and 27.

      (1) The study relies on thresholding to determine whether a gene is expressed or not. While this is a common practice, the choice of threshold is not thoroughly justified. In particular, the choice of two uniform cutoffs across protein-encoding RNAs and of one distinct threshold for non-coding RNAs is somewhat arbitrary and has several limitations. This reviewer recommends the authors attempt to use adaptive threshold-methods that define gene expression thresholds on a per-gene basis. Some of these methods include GiniClust2, Brennecke's variance modeling, HVG in Seurat, BASiCS, and/or MAST Hurdle model for dropout correction.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion, and would note that the integrated data currently incorporates some gene-specific weighting to identify gene expression patterns, as the single-cell data are weighted by maximum expression for each gene prior to integration with the LittleBites cleaned data. This gene level normalization markedly improved gene detection accuracy, and is discussed in depth in our 2021 Paper “Molecular topography of an entire nervous system”. We previously explored several methods for setting gene specific thresholds for identifying gene expression patterns in the integrated dataset. Unfortunately we found that none of the tested methods out performed setting “static” thresholds across all genes in the integrated dataset, and tended to increase false positive rates for some low abundance genes, where gene-specific thresholding can tend towards calling a gene expressed in at least one cell type when it is actually not expressed in any cell types present. These methods are likely to provide better results for expanded datasets that cover all tissue types (where one might reasonably expect that a gene is likely to be expressed in at least one sample).

      (2) Most importantly, the study lacks independent experimental validation (e.g., qPCR, smFISH, or in situ hybridization) to confirm the expression of newly detected lowly expressed genes and non-coding RNAs. This is particularly important for validating novel neuronal non-coding RNAs, which are primarily inferred from computational approaches.

      We agree that smFISH and related in situ validation methods would be an asset in this analysis. Unfortunately because most ncRNAs are very short, they are prohibitively difficult to accurately measure with smFISH. Many ncRNAs we attempted to assay with smFISH methods can bind at most 3 fluorescent probes, which unfortunately was not reliably distinguishable from background autofluorescence in the worm. Many published methods for smFISH signal amplification have not been optimized for C. elegans, and the tough cuticle is a major barrier for those efforts.

      (3) The novel biology is somewhat limited. One potential area of exploration would be to look at cell-type specific alternative splicing events.

      We appreciate this suggestion. Indeed, as we put our source data online prior to publishing this manuscript, two published papers already use this source data set to analyze alternative splicing. Further, these works include validation of splicing patterns observed in this source data, indicating the biological relevance of these data sets.

      (4) The integration method disproportionately benefits neuron types with limited representation in scRNA-seq, meaning well-sampled neuron types may not show significant improvement. The authors should quantify the impact of this bias on the final dataset.

      We agree that cell-types that are well represented in the single-cell dataset tend to have fewer new genes identified in the Integrated dataset than “rare” cell-types in the single cell data. However we would note that cell-types that are highly abundant in the single-cell data appear to become increasingly vulnerable to non-neuronal false positives, and that integration’s primary effect in high abundance cell-types appears to be reducing the false positive rate for non-neuronal genes. Thus we suggest that integration benefits all cell-types across the spectrum of single-cell abundance. The false positives are likely caused by a side-effect of normalization steps in the single-cell dataset, which is moderated by using the LittleBites cleaned bulk samples as an orthogonal measurement. The benefit of integration for cell-types with low abundance in the single-cell dataset is now quantified, and the benefits of integration for low and high abundance cell-types from the single cell data are described in the following section (p.13):

      “To test the stability of LittleBites cleanup across different single-cell reference dataset qualities, we ran the algorithm on a set of bulk samples by first subsetting the corresponding single-cell cluster’s population to 10, 50, 100, or 500 cells. We performed this process 500 times for each subsampling rate for each sample (2000 total runs per sample). We found that testing gene AUROC values are stable across reference cluster sizes (Fig. 2D), suggesting that even if the target cell type is rarely represented in a single cell reference, accurate cleaning is still possible. However, comparing gene level stability across target cluster population levels reveals that low abundance references have higher gene level variance (Fig. 2E), lower purity estimates (Fig. S2F), higher variance in the mean expression across genes (Fig. S2G), and they tend to have lower overall expression (suggesting more aggressive subtraction) (Fig. S2H). This indicates that while binary gene calling is improved even if the reference cluster is small, users should be cautious when using fewer than 100 cells in their single cell reference cluster as the resulting cleanup is less stable.”

      (5) The authors employ a logit transformation to model single-cell proportions into count space, but they need to clarify its assumptions and potential pitfalls (e.g., how it handles rare cell types).

      We agree that the assumptions and pitfalls of the logit model are key for evaluating its usefulness, especially for cell types that are rarely captured in the single-cell dataset. The assumptions and pitfalls are described in the methods section, but we regretfully omitted any mention of those pitfalls in the results, which we have now rectified.

      The description in the methods section is: “We applied this formula to our real single cell dataset and used this equation to transform proportion measures of gene expression into a count space to generate the Prop2Count dataset for downstream analysis and integration with bulk datasets. This procedure allows for proportions data to be used in downstream analyses that work with counts datasets. However, it does limit the range of potential values that each gene can have, with the potential values set as:

      As n approaches 0, the number of potential values decreases, which can be incompatible with some downstream models. Thus, caution should be used when applying this transformation to datasets with few cells.”

      The new mention in the results is: “However, caution should be taken when using this approach in scRNAseq cases where all replicates of a cell type contain few cells. scProp2Count values are limited to the space of possible proportion values, and so replicates with low numbers of cells will have fewer potential expression “levels” which may break some model assumptions in downstream applications (see Methods).”

      (6) The LittleBites approach is highly dependent on the accuracy of existing single-cell references. If the scRNA-seq dataset is incomplete or contains classification biases, this could propagate errors into the bulk RNA-seq data. The authors may want to discuss potential limitations and sensitivity to errors in the single-cell dataset, and it is critical to define minimum quality parameters (e.g. via modeling) for the scRNAseq dataset used as reference.

      We appreciate this suggestion, and agree that manuscript would benefit from a description of where the LittleBites method can give poor results. To this end, we subset our single cell reference for individual neurons of interest to the level of 10, 50, 100, or 500 cells (500 iterations per sample rate), and then ran Littlebites, and compared metrics of gene expression stability, sample composition estimates, and AUROC performance on test genes. We found that when fewer than 100 cells for the target cell type are included in the single cell reference, gene expression stability drops (variance between subsampling iterations was much higher when fewer reference cells were used). However, we found that AUROC values were consistently high regardless of how many reference cells were included, but that this stability in AUROC values was paired with lower overall counts in samples with <100 reference cells after cleanup. This indicates that in cases where few reference cells are present, higher AUROC values might be achieved by more aggressive subtraction, which is attenuated when the reference model is more complete. This analysis is shown in figure 2 and figure S2, and described in the results section, recreated here.

      “To test the stability of Littlebites cleanup across different single-cell reference dataset qualities, we ran the algorithm on a set of bulk samples by first subsetting the corresponding single-cell cluster’s population to 10, 50, 100, or 500 cells. We performed this process 500 times for each subsampling rate for each sample (2000 total runs per sample). We found that testing gene AUROC values are stable across reference cluster sizes (Fig. 2D), suggesting that even if the target cell type is rarely represented in a single cell reference, accurate cleaning is still possible. However, comparing gene level stability across target cluster population levels reveals that low population references have higher gene level variance (Fig. 2E), lower purity estimates (Fig. S2F), higher variance in the mean expression across genes (Fig. S2G), and they tend to have lower overall expression (suggesting more aggressive subtraction) (Fig. S2H). This suggests that while binary gene calling is improved similarly even if the reference cluster is small, users should be cautious when using less than 100 cells in their single cell reference cluster as the resulting cleanup is less stable.”

      (7) Also very important, the LittleBites method could benefit from a more intuitive explanation and schematic to improve accessibility for non-computational readers. A supplementary step-by-step breakdown of the subtraction process would be useful.

      We appreciate this suggestion and implemented a step-by-steo breakdown of the subtraction process in the methods section, also copied below. We also updated the graphic representation in figure 2A.

      “LittleBites Subtraction algorithm

      LittleBites is an iterative algorithm for bulk RNA-seq datasets, that improves the accuracy of cell-type specific bulk RNA-seq sample profiles by removing counts from non-target contaminants (e.g. ambient RNA from dead cells, carry-over non-target cells from FACS enrichment due to imperfect gating). This method leverages single cell reference datasets and ground truth expression information to guide iterative and conservative subtraction to enrich for true target cell-type expression. Using this approach, LittleBites balances subtraction by optimizing using both a single-cell reference, and an orthogonal ground truth reference, moderating biases inherent to either reference.

      This algorithm first calculates gene level specificity weights in a single cell reference dataset using SPM (Specificity Preservation Method) (re-add 22, re-add 23). SPM assigns high weights (approaching 1) to genes expressed in single cell types while applying conservative weights to genes with broader expression patterns, which helps to reduce inappropriate subtraction.

      The algorithm proceeds in a loop of three steps:

      Step 1: Estimate Contamination. Each bulk sample is modeled as the sum of a linear combination of single-cell profiles (target cell type and likely contaminants) using non-negative least squares (NNLS). The resulting coefficients provide the estimate of how much of the sample’s counts come from the target cell-type, and how much comes from each contaminant cell-type.

      Step 2: Weighted Subtraction. Each bulk sample is cleaned by subtracting the weighted sum of contaminant single-cell profiles. This subtraction is attempted multiple times (separately) across a series of learning rate weights (usually ranging from 0-1) which moderate the size of the subtraction step (Equation 1). This produces a range of possible “cleaned” sample options for evaluation.

      Step 3: Performance Optimization. For each learning rate, the cleaned result is evaluated against a set of ground truth genes by calculating the area under the receiver operating characteristic curve (AUROC). The learning rate that optimizes the AUROC is then selected. When multiple learning rates yielded equivalent AUROC values, the lowest learning rate value is chosen to minimize subtraction.

      If the optimal learning rate at Step 3 is 0 (no subtraction option beats the baseline) then the loop is halted. Else, the cleaned bulk profile is returned to Step 1, and the loop continues until the AUROC cannot be improved upon using the single-cell reference modeling.“

      (8) In the same vein, the ROC curves and AUROC comparisons should have clearer annotations to make results more interpretable for readers unfamiliar with these metrics.

      We agree that the ROC and AUROC metrics need a clearer explanation to make their use and interpretations clearer. We included a description of both metrics, and a suggestion for how to interpret them in the results section, copied below.

      “To evaluate the post-subtraction datasets accuracy we used the area under the Receiver-Operator Characteristic (AUROC) score. In brief, we set a wide range of thresholds to call genes expressed or unexpressed, and then compared it to expected expression from a set of ground truth genes. This comparison produces a true positive rate (TPR, the percentage of truly expressed genes that are called expressed), and false positive rate (FPR, the percentage of truly not expressed genes that are called expressed), and a false discovery rate (FDR, the percentage of genes called expressed that are truly not expressed). The Receiver-Operator Characteristic (ROC) is the graph of the line produced by the TPR and FPR values across the range of thresholds tested, and the AUROC is calculated as the sum of the area under that line. A “random” model of gene expression is expected to have an AUROC value of 0.5, and a “perfect” model is expected to have an AUROC value of 1. Thus, AUROCs below 0.5 are worse than a random guess, and values closer to 1 indicate higher accuracy.”

      (9) Finally, after the correlation-based decontamination of the 4,440 'unexpressed' genes, how many were ultimately discarded as non-neuronal?

      a) Among these non-neuronal genes, how many were actually known neuronal genes or components of neuronal pathways (e.g., genes involved in serotonin synthesis, synaptic function, or axon guidance)?

      b) Conversely, among the "unexpressed" genes classified as neuronal, how many were likely not neuron-specific (e.g., housekeeping genes) or even clearly non-neuronal (e.g., myosin or other muscle-specific markers)?

      Combined with point 10, see below.

      (10) To increase transparency and allow readers to probe false positives and false negatives, I suggest the inclusion of:

      a) The full list of all 4,440 'unexpressed' genes and their classification at each refinement step. In that list flag the subsets of genes potentially misclassified, including:

      - Neuronal genes wrongly discarded as non-neuronal.

      - Non-neuronal genes wrongly retained as neuronal.

      b) Add a certainty or likelihood ranking that quantifies confidence in each classification decision, helping readers validate neuronal vs. non-neuronal RNA assignments.

      This addition would enhance transparency, reproducibility, and community engagement, ensuring that key neuronal genes are not erroneously discarded while minimizing false positives from contaminant-derived transcripts.

      We agree that the genes called “unexpressed” in the single-cell data need more context and clarity. First, we trimmed the list to only include 2,333 genes of highest confidence. Second, for those genes we identified any with published neuronal expression patterns. Identifying genes that were retained as neuronal but are likely non-neuronal in origin is difficult as many markers are expressed in a mixture of neuronal and non-neuronal cell-types, however we used a curated list of putative non-neuronal markers to assess the accuracy of the integrated data (see supplementary table 4), and established that most non-neuronal markers are undetected in the integrated data, with the number of detected genes decreasing as our threshold stringency increases. Of note, a few putative non-neuronal genes remain detected even at high thresholds, indicating that our dataset still retains a small percentage of neuronal false positives. This result has been collected in the new supplementary figure 4F, and addressed in the following text in the results section “Testing against a curated list of non-neuronal genes from fluorescent reporters and genomic enrichment studies, we found that of 445 non-neuronal markers, each gene was detected in an average of 12.5 cells or a median of 3 cells in the single-cell dataset, and an average of 8.7 cells or a median of 1 cell in the integrated dataset, at a 14% FDR threshold.”

      We also included a list of “unexpressed” gene identities and tissue annotations as new supplementary tables 16 and 17.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The utility of the bulk RNA-seq data would be significantly increased if the authors were to analyze which isoforms are expressed in individual neurons. Also, it would be very useful to know if there are instances where a gene is expressed in several neurons, but different isoforms are specific to individual neurons.

      We appreciate this suggestion. Indeed, as we put our source data online prior to publishing this manuscript, two published papers already use this source data set to analyze alternative splicing. Further, these works include validation of splicing patterns observed in this source data, indicating the biological relevance of these data sets. This is now noted in our discussion section “In addition, the bulk RNA-seq dataset contains transcript information across the gene body, which parallel efforts have used to identify mRNA splicing patterns that are not found in the scRNA-seq dataset.” These works can be found in references 26 and 27.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Describe the number of L4 animals processed to obtain good-quality bulk RNAseq libraries from the different neuronal types. If the number of worms would be different for different neuronal types, then please make a supplementary table listing the minimum number of worms needed for each neuronal type.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s recommendation, and agree that it would be a useful resource to provide suggestions for how many worms are needed per experiment. Unfortunately We did not track the total number of animals for each sample. We aimed to start with 200-300 ul of packed worms for each strain, generally equating to >500,000 worms, but yields of FACS-isolated cells varied among cell types. Because replicates for specific neuron types were also variable in some instances (See additions to supplemental Table 1), yields likely depend on multiple factors. We have previously noted (Taylor et al., 2021), for example, that some cell types were under-represented in scRNA-seq data (e.g, pharyngeal neurons) based on in vivo abundance presumptively due to the difficulty of isolation or sub-viability in the cell dissociation-FACS protocol.

      (2) List the thresholds for the parameters used during the FASTQC quality control and the threshold number of reads that would make a sample not useful.

      We now include parameters for sample exclusion in the methods section. “Samples were excluded after sequencing if they had: fewer than 1 million read pairs, <1% of uniquely mapping reads to the C. elegans genome, > 50% duplicate reads (low umi diversity), or failed deduplication steps in the nudup package.”

      (3) In Figure 5C, include an overlapping bar that shows the total number of genes in each cell type. You may need to use a log scale to see both (new and all) numbers of genes in the same graph. Add supplementary tables with the names of all new genes assigned to each neuronal type.

      We agree that this figure panel needed additional context. On further reflection we concluded that figure 5 was not sufficiently distinct from figure 4 to warrant separation, and incorporated some key findings from figure 5 into figure S4.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This study conducted by Lu et al. explores the molecular underpinnings of sexual dimorphism in antiviral immunity in zebrafish, with a particular emphasis on the male-biased gene cyp17a2. The authors demonstrate that male zebrafish exhibit stronger antiviral responses than females, and they identify a teleost-specific gene cyp17a2 as a key regulator of this dimorphism. Utilizing a combination of in vivo and in vitro methodologies, they demonstrate that Cyp17a2 potentiates IFN responses by stabilizing STING via K33-linked polyubiquitination and directly degrades the viral P protein via USP8-mediated deubiquitination. The work challenges conventional views of sex-based immunity and proposes a novel, hormone- and sex chromosome-independent mechanism.

      Strengths:

      (1) The following constitutes a novel concept, sexual dimorphism in immunity can be driven by an autosomal gene rather than sex chromosomes or hormones represents a significant advance in the field, offering a more comprehensive understanding of immune evolution.

      (2) The present study provides a comprehensive molecular pathway, from gene expression to protein-protein interactions and post-translational modifications, thereby establishing a link between Cyp17a2 and both host immune enhancement (via STING) and direct antiviral activity (via viral protein degradation).

      (3) In order to substantiate their claims, the authors utilize a wide range of techniques, including transcriptomics, Co-IP, ubiquitination assays, confocal microscopy, and knockout models.

      (4) The utilization of a singular model is imperative. Zebrafish, which are characterized by their absence of sex chromosomes, offer a clear genetic background for the dissection of autosomal contributions to sexual dimorphism.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study employed a saccade-shifting sequential working memory paradigm, manipulating whether a saccade occurred after each memory array to directly compare retinotopic and transsaccadic working memory for both spatial location and color. Across four participant groups (young and older healthy adults, and patients with Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease), the authors found a consistent saccade-related cost specifically for spatial memory - but not for color - regardless of differences in memory precision. Using computational modeling, they demonstrate that data from healthy participants are best explained by a complex saccade-based updating model that incorporates distractor interference. Applying this model to the patient groups further elucidates the sources of spatial memory deficits in PD and AD. The authors then extend the model to explain copying deficits in these patient groups, providing evidence for the ecological validity of the proposed saccade-updating retinotopic mechanism.

      Strengths:

      Overall, the manuscript is well written, and the experimental design is both novel and appropriate for addressing the authors' key research questions. I found the study to be particularly comprehensive: it first characterizes saccade-related costs in healthy young adults, then replicates these findings in healthy older adults, demonstrating how this "remapping" cost in spatial working memory is age-independent. After establishing and validating the best-fitting model using data from both healthy groups, the authors apply this model to clinical populations to identify potential mechanisms underlying their spatial memory impairments. The computational modeling results offer a clearer framework for interpreting ambiguities between allocentric and retinotopic spatial representations, providing valuable insight into how the brain represents and updates visual information across saccades. Moreover, the findings from the older adult and patient groups highlight factors that may contribute to spatial working memory deficits in aging and neurological disease, underscoring the broader translational significance of this work.

      Weaknesses:

      Several concerns should be addressed to enhance the clarity of the manuscript:

      (1) Relevance of the figure-copy results (pp. 13-15).

      Is it necessary to include the figure-copy task results within the main text? The manuscript already presents a clear and coherent narrative without this section. The figure-copy task represents a substantial shift from the LOCUS paradigm to an entirely different task that does not measure the same construct. Moreover, the ROCF findings are not fully consistent with the LOCUS results, which introduces confusion and weakens the manuscript's coherence. While I understand the authors' intention to assess the ecological validity of their model, this section does not effectively strengthen the manuscript and may be better removed or placed in the Supplementary Materials.

      (2) Model fitting across age groups (p. 9).

      It is unclear whether it is appropriate to fit healthy young and healthy elderly participants' data to the same model simultaneously. If the goal of the model fitting is to account for behavioral performance across all conditions, combining these groups may be problematic, as the groups differ significantly in overall performance despite showing similar remapping costs. This suggests that model performance might differ meaningfully between age groups. For example, in Figure 4A, participants 22-42 (presumably the elderly group) show the best fit for the Dual (Saccade) model, implying that the Interference component may contribute less to explaining elderly performance.

      Furthermore, although the most complex model emerges as the best-fitting model, the manuscript should explain how model complexity is penalized or balanced in the model comparison procedure. Additionally, are Fixation Decay and Saccade Update necessarily alternative mechanisms? Could both contribute simultaneously to spatial memory representation? A model that includes both mechanisms-e.g., Dual (Fixation) + Dual (Saccade) + Interference-could be tested to determine whether it outperforms Model 7 to rule out the sole contribution of complexity.

      Minor point: On p. 9, line 336, Figure 4A does not appear to include the red dashed vertical line that is mentioned as separating the age groups.

      (3) Clarification of conceptual terminology.

      Some conceptual distinctions are unclear. For example, the relationship between "retinal memory" and "transsaccadic memory," as well as between "allocentric map" and "retinotopic representation," is not fully explained. Are these constructs related or distinct? Additionally, the manuscript uses terms such as "allocentric map," "retinotopic representation," and "reference frame" interchangeably, which creates ambiguity. It would be helpful for the authors to clarify the relationships among these terms and apply them consistently.

      (4) Rationale for the selective disruption hypothesis (p. 4, lines 153-154).

      The authors hypothesize that "saccades would selectively disrupt location memory while leaving colour memory intact." Providing theoretical or empirical justification for this prediction would strengthen the argument.

      (5) Relationship between saccade cost and individual memory performance (p. 4, last paragraph).

      The authors report that larger saccades were associated with greater spatial memory disruption. It would be informative to examine whether individual differences in the magnitude of saccade cost correlate with participants' overall/baseline memory performance (e.g. their memory precision in the no-saccade condition). Such analyses might offer insights into how memory capacity/ability relates to resilience against saccade-induced updating.

      (6) Model fitting for the healthy elderly group to reveal memory-deficit factors (pp. 11-12).

      The manuscript discusses model-based insights into components that contribute to spatial memory deficits in AD and PD, but does not discuss components that contribute to spatial memory deficits in the healthy elderly group. Given that the EC group also shows impairments in certain parameters, explaining and discussing these outcomes of the EC group could provide additional insights into age-related memory decline, which would strengthen the study's broader conclusions.

      (7) Presentation of saccade conditions in Figure 5 (p. 11).

      In Figure 5, it may be clearer to group the four saccade conditions together within each patient group. Since the main point is that saccadic interference on spatial memory remains robust across patient groups, grouping conditions by patient type rather than intermixing conditions would emphasize this interpretation.

    2. Author response:

      (1) About ROCF figure-copy results

      Reviewer #1 queried the necessity of including the Rey-Osterrieth Complex Figure (ROCF) results in the main text. We appreciate the reviewer’s perspective on the narrative flow and the transition between the LOCUS paradigm and the ROCF results. However, we remain keen to retain these findings in the main tex, as they provide critical ecological and clinical validation for the computational mechanisms identified in our study.

      We argue that the following points support the retention of these results:

      (1)  The ROCF we used is a standard neuropsychological tool for identifying constructional apraxia. Our results bridge the gap between basic cognitive neuroscience and clinical application by demonstrating that specific remapping parameters—rather than general memory precision—predict real-world deficits in patients.

      (2)  The finding that our winning model explains approximately 62% of the variance in ROCF copy scores across all diagnostic groups further indicates that these parameters from the LOCUS task represent core computational phenotypes that underpin complex, real-life visuospatial construction (copying drawings).

      (3)  Previous research has often observed only a weak or indirect link between drawing ability and traditional working memory measures, such as digit span  (Senese et al., 2020). This was previously attributed to “deictic” strategies—like frequent eye movements—that minimise the need to hold large amounts of information in memory (Ballard et al., 1995; Cohen, 2005; Draschkow et al., 2021). While our study was not exclusively designed to catalogue all cognitive contributions to drawing, our findings provide significant and novel evidence indicating that transsaccadic integration is a critical driver of constructional (copying drawing) ability. By demonstrating this link, we offer a new direction for future research, shifting the focus from general memory capacity toward the precision of spatial updating across eye movements.

      By including the ROCF results in the main text, we provide evidence for a functional role for spatial remapping that extends beyond perceptual stability into the domain of complex visuomotor control. We will expand on these points in the Discussion in our revised manuscript.

      (2) Model complexity and overfitting

      We would like to clarify that the Bayesian model selection (BMS) procedure utilised in this manuscript inherently balances model fit with parsimony. Unlike maximum likelihood inference, where overfitting is a primary concern often requiring cross-validation via out-of-sample prediction, our approach depends upon the comparison of marginal likelihoods. This method directly penalises model complexity — a principle often described as the “Bayesian Occam’s Razor” (Rasmussen and Ghahramani, 2000). This means that a model is only favoured if the improvement in fit justifies the additional parameter space. If a parameter were redundant, it would lower the model's evidence by “diluting” the probability mass over the parameter space. The emergence of the “Dual (Saccade) + Interference” model as the winning candidate suggests it offers the most plausible generative account of the data while maintaining necessary parsimony. We would be happy to point toward literature that discusses how these marginal likelihood approximations provide a more robust guard against overfitting than standard metrics like BIC or AIC (MacKay, 2003; Murray and Ghahramani, 2005; Penny, 2012).

      (3) On model fitting across age groups

      This approach is primarily supported by our empirical findings: there was no significant interaction between age group and saccade condition for either location or colour memory. While older adults demonstrated lower baseline precision, the specific disruptive effect of saccades (the “saccade cost”) was remarkably consistent across cohorts. This justifies the use of a common generative model to assess quantitative differences in parameter estimates.

      This approach does implicitly assume that participants perform the task in a qualitatively similar way. However, as this assumption is mitigated by the fact that our winning model nests simpler models as special cases, it supports the assessment of group differences in parameters that play consistent mechanistic roles. This flexibility allows the model to naturally accommodate groups where certain components—such as interference—may play a reduced role, while remaining sensitive to the specific mechanistic failures that differentiate healthy aging from neurodegeneration.

      (4) Conceptual terminology and patient group descriptions

      We will clarify our conceptual terminology, explicitly defining the relationships between retinotopic (eye-centred), transsaccadic (across-saccade), and spatiotopic (world-centred) representations.

      Regarding the demographics of the clinical cohorts, we apologise for any lack of clarity in our initial presentation. The patient demographics for both the Parkinson’s disease (PD) and Alzheimer’s disease (AD) groups—including age, gender, education, and ACE-III scores—are currently detailed alongside the healthy control data (two groups: Young Healthy Controls and Elderly Healthy Controls) in the table within the Participants section of the Materials and Methods. In our revision. We will ensure that this table is correctly labelled as Table 2 and will provide more comprehensive recruitment and characterisation details for both patient groups within the main text. Finally, we will include a detailed discussion in the Supplementary Materials regarding eye-tracking data quality across all cohorts, specifically comparing calibration accuracy, trace stability, and trial rejection rates to demonstrate that our findings are not confounded by differences in recording quality between healthy and clinical populations.

      References

      Ballard DH, Hayhoe MM, Pelz JB. 1995. Memory Representations in Natural Tasks. Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience 7:66–80. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1162/jocn.1995.7.1.66

      Cohen DJ. 2005. Look little, look often: The influence of gaze frequency on drawing accuracy. Perception & Psychophysics 67:997–1009. DOI: https://doi.org/10.3758/BF03193626

      Draschkow D, Kallmayer M, Nobre AC. 2021. When Natural Behavior Engages Working Memory. Current Biology 31:869-874.e5. DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2020.11.013, PMID: 33278355

      MacKay DJC. 2003. Information Theory, Inference and Learning Algorithms. Cambridge University Press.

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    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript describes the use of computational tools to design a mimetic of the interleukin-7 (IL-7) cytokine with superior stability and receptor binding activity compared to the naturally occurring molecule. The authors focused their engineering efforts on the loop regions to preserve receptor interfaces while remediating structural irregularities that destabilize the protein. They demonstrated the enhanced thermostability, production yield, and bioactivity of the resulting molecule through biophysical and functional studies. Overall, the manuscript is well written, novel, and of high interest to the fields of molecular engineering, immunology, biophysics, and protein therapeutic design. The experimental methodologies used are convincing; however, the article would benefit from more quantitative comparisons of bioactivity through titrations.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript presents the computational design and experimental validation of Neo-7, an engineered variant of interleukin-7 (IL-7) with improved folding efficiency, expression yield, and therapeutic activity. The authors employed a rational protein design approach using Rosetta loop remodeling to reconnect IL-7's functional helices through shorter, more efficient loops, resulting in a protein with superior stability and binding affinity compared to wild-type IL-7. The work demonstrates promising translational potential for cancer immunotherapy applications.

      Strengths:

      (1) The integration of Rosetta loop remodeling with AlphaFold validation represents an established computational pipeline for rational protein design. The iterative refinement process, using both single-sequence and multimer AlphaFold predictions, is methodologically sound.

      (2) The authors provide thorough characterization across multiple platforms (yeast display, bacterial expression, mammalian cell expression) and assays (binding kinetics, thermostability, bioactivity), strengthening the robustness of their findings.

      (3) The identification of the critical helix 1 kink stabilized by disulfide bonding and its recreation through G4C/L96C mutations demonstrates deep structural understanding and successful problem-solving.

      (4) The MC38 tumor model results show clear therapeutic advantages of Neo-7 variants, with compelling immune profiling data supporting CD8+ T cell-mediated anti-tumor mechanisms.

      (5) The transcriptomic profiling provides valuable mechanistic insights into T cell activation states and suggests reduced exhaustion markers, which are clinically relevant.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) While computational predictions are extensive, the manuscript lacks experimental structural validation of the designed Neo-7 variants. The term "Structural Validation" should not be used in the header.

      We thank the reviewer for this constructive comment. To better reflect the work conducted, we have revised the section title from “Structural Validation of Neo-7 in AlphaFold single sequence mode” to “Structural Modeling of Neo-7 in AlphaFold single sequence mode.” This change clarifies that our study employed in silico modeling approaches rather than experimental structural validation.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. We speculate that the slower off-rate observed for Neo-7 variants is primarily attributable to their enhanced structural stability, which promotes the formation of a more stable cytokine–receptor complex. This is consistent with prior observations in other engineered cytokines, such as IL-2 mimetics (Neo-2/15).

      In terms of biological consequences, we believe the slower off-rate is unlikely to result in signaling bias or qualitatively distinct pathways for several reasons:

      IL-7’s mechanism of action is inherently regulated to prevent over-signaling. T cells downregulate IL7R-α expression upon IL-7 stimulation, ensuring a built-in negative feedback mechanism.

      IL-7 signaling is dominated by STAT5 activation, without the signaling plasticity observed in cytokines like IL-21 or IL-22, which can bias toward STAT1/3 and drive divergent functional outcomes.

      Our RNA-seq data support this interpretation, as Neo-7–treated CD8⁺ T cells exhibited transcriptional profiles highly similar to those induced by WT-IL-7, with the difference being an enhanced magnitude of response rather than novel pathway engagement.

      Taken together, we infer that the slower off-rate of Neo-7 enhances the potency and durability of IL-7 signaling without altering its downstream specificity, thereby strengthening the magnitude of immune responses while maintaining the canonical STAT5-driven biology of IL-7.

      (3) While computational immunogenicity prediction is provided, these methods are very limited.

      We fully agree with the reviewer that current in silico immunogenicity prediction tools are limited and cannot be considered definitive. Indeed, to date, none of these algorithms has demonstrated a strong correlation with clinical immunogenicity outcomes of biologics. For example, the presence of anti-drug antibodies (ADA) in murine or non-human primate models often does not translate into ADA induction in human clinical trials. This disconnect underscores the inherent challenges of predicting immunogenicity based solely on computational or preclinical models.

      Our strategy to mitigate potential immunogenicity was therefore not to rely exclusively on prediction software, but instead to apply a conservative design principle: preserving the vast majority of the parental IL-7 sequence while introducing only the minimal number of amino acid substitutions required to achieve our engineering objectives. By maintaining sequence continuity with the native cytokine, we aim to minimize the risk of introducing novel epitopes while improving stability and developability. We acknowledge that definitive immunogenicity assessment can only be addressed in future clinical studies.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Specific Points:

      (1) The authors should describe the molecular composition of CYT-107.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and have added clarification regarding the molecular composition of CYT-107. CYT-107 is a recombinant form of wild-type human interleukin-7 (IL-7) expressed in eukaryotic cells, which introduces N-linked glycosylation modifications to the protein. As a glycosylated recombinant IL-7, CYT-107 more closely mimics the natural human cytokine compared to bacterial expression systems that produce non-glycosylated IL-7. This feature contributes to its stability and bioavailability in clinical applications.

      (Reference: U.S. National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences, GSRS record for IL-7, https://gsrs.ncats.nih.gov/ginas/app/ui/substances/46bd8013-1e2d-4b6e-afcf-340f447e8710

      (2) The authors should indicate the receptor layout for IL-7 in the introduction and indicate available structural data. Also, in line 93, the authors should indicate that IL-7Ra is one subunit of the heterodimeric receptor complex.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. However, due to page limitations, we have chosen to orient the introduction around the design rationale, computational workflow, and biological functionality of IL-7. To address the reviewer’s point while maintaining brevity, we have now included a concise description of the IL-7 receptor layout and its available structural data in the main text. Specifically, in line 93 we revised the sentence to read:“We began by examining the crystal structure of IL-7 bound to its receptor, IL7R-α (interleukin-7 receptor alpha; PDB ID: 3DI2), which recruits IL-2Rγ to form a heterodimeric receptor complex essential for downstream signaling.”

      (3) The abbreviation IL-7Ra should be defined at first use.

      We thank the reviewer for the comment. The abbreviation has now been defined at its first appearance in the manuscript. Specifically, at Line 93 we revised the sentence as follows:

      “We began by examining the crystal structure of IL-7 bound to its receptor, IL7R-α (interleukin-7 receptor alpha; PDB ID: 3DI2), which recruits IL-2Rγ to form a heterodimeric receptor complex essential for downstream signaling..”

      (4) The authors need to clarify whether the human or murine IL-7Ra is being used in each experiment mentioned in the results text.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We have now specified in the main text and corresponding subsection titles whether human or murine IL-7Rα was used in each experiment.

      (5) The authors sometimes use a dash in IL7Ra and IL2Rg and sometimes do not. This should be standardized.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation. We have standardized the terminology throughout the manuscript to “IL7Rα” and “IL2Rγ” to maintain consistency.

      (6) In Figure 3E, the authors left out the v in "Neo7-LDv1".

      We have corrected the omission of “v” and updated the label to read Neo7-LDv1.

      (7) In Figure 3E, the authors must indicate in the bottom row that they are visualizing sequential binding to IL-2Rg following incubation with IL-7Ra. This should be stated in the results text and the figure caption as well.

      We have revised the results text and figure caption to clearly state that the bottom row illustrates sequential binding to IL-2Rγ following incubation with IL-7Rα.

      “for detection of IL-2Rγ binding, yeast cells were first incubated with recombinant IL-7Rα, washed, and subsequently incubated with IL-2Rγ”

      (8) In Figure 3E, "IL-7Rg" should be corrected to "IL-2Rg".

      We have corrected “IL-7Rγ” to “IL-2Rγ” in Figure 3E for accuracy and consistency.

      (9) In line 140, the authors claim that Neo7-LDv1 is partially folded based on the binding to the heterodimeric receptor complex. However, the data are insufficient to support this conclusion.

      We understand the concern of the reviewer and we decided to rephrase the sentence for better understanding: “A degree of binding to IL2Rγ was detected, possibly reflecting partial folding of the displayed protein in the yeast display platform.” While we do not claim the protein to be fully or uniformly folded, this deduction is supported by the yeast display data and further corroborated by AlphaFold structural predictions.

      (10) In lines 185-186, the authors claim that the binding affinity for IL-2Rg is improved, but this is not shown in Figure 3, which looks only at a single concentration and shows comparable binding between WT-IL7 and Neo7-LDv2.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable observation. Our original wording was ambiguous and may have implied a direct comparison with WT-IL7, which was not intended. The sentence was meant to highlight that within the Neo-7 variant series, Neo7-LDv2 displayed stronger binding to both IL-7Rα and IL-2Rγ compared to other Neo-7 variants. To avoid misinterpretation, we have revised the text as follows:

      “Importantly, the enhanced binding affinity towards IL7Rα also led to improved binding towards the common IL2Rγ., relative to other variants in the Neo-7 series.”

      (11) Lines 202-203 appear to be an error.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. The lines in question were indeed an error and have now been removed from the manuscript.

      (12) In yeast display validation, negative controls showing binding to the fluorescent antibody only and an irrelevant control protein should be shown for all constructs in order to evaluate nonspecific interactions.

      We agree with the reviewer that appropriate negative controls are important to validate specificity. To address this, we will include yeast display data with negative controls—native yeast (EBY100) stained with the corresponding fluorescent antibody in the Supplementary Information. This addition will provide clearer validation of binding specificity and reduce concerns regarding nonspecific interactions.

      (13) For yeast display studies, titrations rather than single concentrations should be used to compare constructs (Figures 3 and 4). The claim that any of the constructs has a higher affinity than any other construct must be supported by performing titrations.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We respectfully note that yeast display titrations provide relative rather than absolute estimates of binding affinity. In our study, constructs were compared under identical antigen concentrations, where the observed fluorescence intensity reflected their relative binding strength. These yeast display results served as an initial screening strategy, which we subsequently validated using surface plasmon resonance (SPR). SPR provided quantitative binding parameters and confirmed the binding differences observed in yeast display. Thus, while yeast titrations were not performed, the combination of side-by-side yeast display comparisons and orthogonal validation by SPR supports our affinity claims with both qualitative and quantitative evidence.

      (14) The acronym SPR needs to be defined, and the authors should mention that this technique was used for quantitative binding studies in line 259.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. The acronym has now been defined in the main text at its first use, and we have clarified its role in the study. The revised text reads:

      “We then characterized the binding affinities of Neo-7 variants to mouse IL-7 receptor alpha (mIL-7Rα) in a quantitative manner using surface plasmon resonance (SPR).”

      (15) A titration of 2E8 cell proliferation versus concentration should be presented for IL-7 versus Neo-7 variants to directly compare EC50 values and make claims regarding potency in Figure 5H. Also, the authors should clarify whether a proliferation or viability assay was performed.

      We thank the reviewer for the helpful comment regarding the use of EC₅₀ values when discussing potency. In response, we have revised the manuscript to avoid overinterpreting the data. Specifically, we replaced the term potency with ability to stimulate, as the 2E8 cell assay was designed to validate whether receptor binding by IL-7 and Neo-7 variants translates into biological function—namely, supporting immune cell viability and proliferation under limiting cytokine conditions. The assay was not optimized to determine formal EC₅₀ values, but rather to demonstrate functional activity consistent with IL-7 receptor engagement.

      We have also clarified in the text that the experiment was a proliferation assay, with cell viability assessed as part of the readout. This revision better reflects the scope of the assay while aligning our claims with the data presented.

      (16) Isotype control is not an appropriate name for the Fc-Only construct. This should be denoted as Fc Only.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We have revised the terminology throughout the manuscript, changing isotype control to Fc control.

      (17) A titration of mouse splenocyte proliferation versus concentration should be presented for IL-7 versus Neo-7 variants to directly compare EC50 values and make claims regarding potency in Figure 6.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion regarding EC₅₀ analysis. In this study, the splenocyte proliferation assay was designed as a preliminary in vitro screen to confirm the biological activity of Neo-7 variants relative to wild-type IL-7 prior to in vivo testing. The assay was not optimized for quantitative potency determination, but rather to provide an initial functional validation of the constructs. We have therefore revised the manuscript wording to avoid overinterpreting the data and refrained from making claims regarding EC₅₀-based potency. Instead, we emphasize that the in vivo tumor model provides a more physiologically relevant and rigorous platform for assessing cytokine functionality, including proliferation and immunomodulation.

      (18) The legends in Figure 6 should indicate the colors used for each construct.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We have revised the legend for Figure 6 to include the color codes corresponding to each construct.

      (19) Metabolism should be singular in lines 433 and 435.

      We have corrected the wording so that “metabolism” is consistently used in the singular form.

      (20) In Figure 8D, "cycling" should be changed to "cycle".

      The word “cycling” has been corrected to “cycle” in Figure 8D.

      (21) The treatments need to be indicated in Figure 8D. Also, a color scale is needed.

      We agree with the reviewer, and a color scale description has now been included in the Figure legend to aid interpretation. “The gene expression heatmap is derived from Z-scores calculated from the RNA sequencing data, with expression levels color-coded from high (red) to low (blue). ”

      (22) More comparisons between RNASeq data for Fc-WTIL7 versus Fc-Neo7 (Figure 8) should be presented in the results section.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. Due to space limitations in the main manuscript, we are unable to include an expanded description of all RNA-Seq comparisons. However, we will provide a more detailed analysis of Fc-WT-IL7 versus Fc-Neo7 in the supplementary section, including expanded differential gene expression comparisons and pathway enrichment analyses. This will allow readers to fully appreciate the differences while maintaining focus in the main text.

      (23) The strikethrough in line 464 needs to be corrected.

      We have corrected the strikethrough error in line 464.

      (24) It is unclear how stabilizing IL-7 improves its toxicity or half-life. The authors should indicate more clearly which limitations of IL-7 were addressed by their molecule in the abstract, introduction, and discussion.

      Native IL-7 demonstrates an excellent safety profile but faces two major challenges in clinical application: (1) short plasma half-life and (2) suboptimal developability due to poor stability. The short half-life is typically addressed through Fc-fusion strategies, which extend systemic exposure via FcRn recycling. However, wild-type IL-7 exhibits a strong aggregation tendency when fused to Fc, rendering the fusion protein poorly developable. By redesigning IL-7 into the more stable Neo-7 format, we substantially improved the folding efficiency and purity of the Fc-fusion protein after affinity purification, thereby enabling its advancement as a recombinant biologic candidate.

      We do not intend to claim that increased stability directly reduces in vivo toxicity. The favorable safety profile of IL-7 arises primarily from its intrinsic biology (mechanism of action and downstream signaling), rather than from its structural stability. That said, improved stability and reduced aggregation propensity could potentially lower the immunogenicity risk of protein biologics. Nevertheless, there are currently no validated in vitro or in vivo assays that reliably correlate protein stability or aggregation with clinical immunogenicity outcomes.

      (25) The acronym MSA needs to be defined.

      We have defined the acronym MSA (Multiple Sequence Alignment) on page 7, line 142.

      (26) The acronym CPD needs to be defined.

      We have defined the acronym CPD (Computational Protein Design) on page 23, line 468.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Any experimental structural data would be good to have.

      We plan to pursue X-ray crystallography of Neo-7 in future studies to obtain high-resolution structural confirmation. However, we emphasize that such experiments require significant time and resources, and the results would not alter the biological claims made in this study. Our focus here is to demonstrate that with recent advances in in silico protein structure prediction algorithms, such as AlphaFold2, it is now feasible to redesign therapeutic proteins with sufficient accuracy to achieve improved developability and biological performance. This study highlights how computational approaches can streamline protein drug engineering, reducing reliance on labor-intensive structural studies during the early stages of therapeutic development.

      Please add details of how the changed kinetics might affect downstream pathways.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion to elaborate on the biological implications of the altered binding kinetics.

      Our data show that Neo-7 variants display a slower off-rate relative to WT-IL-7, which likely reflects enhanced stabilization of the cytokine–receptor complex. In principle, this could prolong receptor occupancy and modestly extend downstream signaling duration. However, several biological features of IL-7 constrain the risk of excessive or aberrant signaling:

      Receptor Regulation: IL-7 signaling induces rapid downregulation of IL7Rα on T cells, serving as a feedback mechanism to prevent sustained or uncontrolled activation. This "hardwired" receptor regulation reduces the likelihood that a slower off-rate translates into pathological over-signaling.

      Pathway Specificity: IL-7 primarily signals through the JAK/STAT5 axis, with little evidence of signaling bias. Unlike other cytokines (e.g., IL-21, IL-22) that can activate STAT1 or STAT3 and drive distinct functional outcomes, IL-7’s pathway specificity minimizes concerns about altered signaling directionality.

      Transcriptional Evidence: Our RNA-seq analysis further supports this, showing that Neo-7 and WT-IL-7 activate similar transcriptional programs. The differences we observed were in the magnitude of response, not in the qualitative nature of the pathways engaged. This suggests that Neo-7 variants enhance the intensity of canonical IL-7 signaling rather than redirecting it toward alternative or unintended pathways.

      Together, these findings support the interpretation that the slower off-rate of Neo-7 variants likely contributes to stronger or more sustained activation of IL-7’s canonical STAT5 pathway, while intrinsic regulatory mechanisms and pathway fidelity safeguard against inappropriate signaling outcomes.

      Minor:

      (1) The Figure 3 text is hard to read.

      We acknowledge the reviewer’s concern regarding the readability of Figure 3. In the revised manuscript, we will provide a higher-resolution version of the figure to ensure that all labels and text are clearly visible upon magnification.

      (2) The manuscript switches between "Neo-7" and "Neo7" .

      We agree with the reviewer’s observation. To maintain consistency throughout the manuscript, all references have been standardized to Neo-7.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript reports a prospective longitudinal study examining whether infants with high likelihood (HL) for autism differ from low-likelihood (LL) infants in two levels of word learning: brain-to-speech cortical entrainment and implicit word segmentation. The authors report reduced syllable tracking and post-learning word recognition in the HL group relative to the LL group. Importantly, both the syllable-tracking entrainment measure and the word recognition ERP measure are positively associated with verbal outcomes at 18-20 months, as indexed by the Mullen Verbal Developmental Quotient. Overall, I found this to be a thoughtfully designed and carefully executed study that tackles a difficult and important set of questions. With some clarifications and modest additional analyses or discussion on the points below, the manuscript has strong potential to make a substantial contribution to the literature on early language development and autism.

      Strengths:

      This is an important study that addresses a central question in developmental cognitive neuroscience: what mechanisms underlie variability in language learning, and what are the early neural correlates of these individual differences? While language development has a relatively well-defined sensitive period in typical development, the mechanisms of variability - particularly in the context of neurodevelopmental conditions - remain poorly understood, in part because longitudinal work in very young infants and toddlers is rare. The present study makes a valuable contribution by directly targeting this gap and by grounding the work in a strong theoretical tradition on statistical learning as a foundational mechanism for early language acquisition.

      I especially appreciate the authors' meticulous approach to data quality and their clear, transparent description of the methods. The choice of partial least squares correlation (PLS-c) is well motivated, given the multidimensional nature of the data and collinearity among variables, and the manuscript does a commendable job explaining this technique to readers who may be less familiar with it.

      The results reveal interesting developmental changes in syllable tracking and word segmentation from birth to 2 years in both HL and LL infants. Simply mapping these trajectories in both groups is highly valuable. Moreover, the associations between neural indices of brain-to-speech entrainment and word segmentation with later verbal outcomes in the LL group support a critical role for speech perception and statistical learning in early language development, with clear implications for understanding autism. Overall, this is a rich dataset with substantial potential to inform theory.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Clarifying longitudinal vs. concurrent associations

      Because the current analytical approach incorporates all time points, including the final visit, it is challenging to determine to what extent the brain-language associations are driven by longitudinal relationships vs. concurrent correlations at the last time point. This does not undermine the main findings, but clarifying this issue could significantly enhance the impact of the individual-differences results. If feasible, the authors might consider (a) showing that a model excluding the final visit still predicts verbal outcomes at the last visit in a similar way, or (b) more explicitly acknowledging in the discussion that the observed associations may be partly or largely driven by concurrent correlations. Either approach would help readers interpret the strength and nature of the longitudinal claims.

      (2) Incorporating sleep status into longitudinal models

      Sleep status changes systematically across developmental stages in this cohort. Given that some of the papers cited to justify the paradigm also note limitations in speech entrainment and word segmentation during sleep or in patients with impaired consciousness, it would be helpful to account for sleep more directly. Including sleep status as a factor or covariate in the longitudinal models, or at least elaborating more fully on its potential role and limitations, would further strengthen the conclusions and reassure readers that these effects are not primarily driven by differences in sleep-wake state.

      (3) Use of PLS-c and potential group × condition interactions

      I am relatively new to PLS-c. One question that arose is whether PLS-c could be extended to handle a two-way interaction between group and condition contrasts (STR vs. RND). If so, some of the more complex supplementary models testing developmental trajectories within each group (Page 8, Lines 258-265) might be more directly captured within a single, unified framework. Even a brief comment in the methods or discussion about the feasibility (or limitations) of modeling such interactions within PLS-c would be informative for readers and could streamline the analytic narrative.

      (4) STR-only analyses and the role of RND

      Page 8, Lines 241-245: This analysis is conducted only within the STR condition. The lack of group difference observed here appears consistent with the lack of group difference in word-level entrainment (Page 9, Lines 292-294), suggesting that HL and LL groups may not differ in statistical learning per se, but rather in syllabic-level entrainment. As a useful sanity check and potential extension, it might be informative to explore whether syllable-level entrainment in the RND condition differs between groups to a similar extent as in Figure 2C-D. In other work (e.g., adults vs. children; Moreau et al., 2022), group differences can be more pronounced for syllable-level than for word-level entrainment. Figure S6 seems to hint that a similar pattern may exist here. If feasible, including or briefly reporting such an analysis could help clarify the asymmetry between the two learning measures and further support the interpretation of syllabic-level differences.

      (5) Multi-speaker input and voice perception (Page 15, Lines 475-483)

      The multi-speaker nature of the speech input is an interesting and ecologically relevant feature of the design, but it does add interpretive complexity. The literature on voice perception in autism is still mixed: for example, Boucher et al. (2000) reported no differences in voice recognition and discrimination between children with autism and language-matched non-autistic peers, whereas behavioral work in autistic adults suggests atypical voice perception (e.g., Schelinski et al., 2016; Lin et al., 2015). I found the current interpretation in this paragraph somewhat difficult to follow, partly because the data do not directly test how HL and LL infants integrate or suppress voice information. I think the authors could strengthen this section by slightly softening and clarifying the claims.

      (6) Asymmetry between EEG learning measures

      Page 16, Lines 502-507 touches on the asymmetry between the two EEG learning measures but leaves some questions for the reader. The presence of word recognition ERPs in the LL group suggests that a failure to suppress voice information during learning did not prevent successful word learning. At the same time, there is an interesting complementary pattern in the HL group, who show LL-like word-level entrainment but does not exhibit robust word recognition. Explicitly discussing this asymmetry - why HL infants might show relatively preserved word-level entrainment yet reduced word recognition ERPs, whereas LL infants show both - would enrich the theoretical contribution of the manuscript.

      References:

      (1) Moreau, C. N., Joanisse, M. F., Mulgrew, J., & Batterink, L. J. (2022). No statistical learning advantage in children over adults: Evidence from behaviour and neural entrainment. Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience, 57, 101154. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.dcn.2022.101154

      (2) Boucher, J., Lewis, V., & Collis, G. M. (2000). Voice processing abilities in children with autism, children with specific language impairments, and young typically developing children. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 41(7), 847-857. https://doi.org/10.1111/1469-7610.00672

      (3) Schelinski, S., Borowiak, K., & von Kriegstein, K. (2016). Temporal voice areas exist in autism spectrum disorder but are dysfunctional for voice identity recognition. Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, 11(11), 1812-1822. https://doi.org/10.1093/scan/nsw089

      (4) Lin, I.-F., Yamada, T., Komine, Y., Kato, N., Kato, M., & Kashino, M. (2015). Vocal identity recognition in autism spectrum disorder. PLOS ONE, 10(6), e0129451. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0129451

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study provides novel insights into how individuals regulate the speed of their movements both alone and in pairs, highlighting consistent differences in movement vigor across people and showing that these differences can adapt in dyadic contexts. The findings are significant because they reveal stable individual patterns of action that are flexible when interacting with others, and they suggest that multiple factors, beyond reward sensitivity, may contribute to these idiosyncrasies. The evidence is generally strong, supported by careful behavioral measurements and appropriate modeling, though clarifying some statistical choices and including additional measures of accuracy and smoothness would further strengthen the support for the conclusions.

      Major Comments:

      (1) Given the idiosyncrasies in individual vigor, would linear mixed models (LMMs) be more appropriate than ANOVAs in some analyses (e.g., in the section "Solo session"), as they can account for random intercepts and slopes on vigor measures? Some figures (e.g., Figure 2.B and 3.E) indeed seem to show that some aspects of behaviour may present variability in slopes and intercepts across participants. In fact, I now realize that LMMs are used in the "Emergence of dyadic vigor from the partners' individual vigor" section, so could the authors clarify why different statistical approaches were applied depending on the sections?

      (2) If I understand correctly, the introduction suggests that idiosyncrasies in movement vigor may be driven by inter-individual differences in reward sensitivity. However, the current task does not involve any explicit rewards, yet the authors still observe idiosyncrasies in vigor, which is interesting. Could this indicate that other factors contribute to these consistent individual differences? For example, could sensitivity to temporal costs or physical effort explain the slow versus fast subgrouping? Specifically, might individuals more sensitive to temporal costs move faster to minimize opportunity costs, and might those less sensitive to effort costs also move faster? Along the same lines, could the two subgroups (slow vs. fast) be characterized in terms of underlying computational "phenotypes," such as their sensitivities to time and effort? If this is not feasible with the current dataset, it would still be valuable to discuss whether these factors could plausibly account for the observed patterns, based on existing literature.

      (3) The observation that dyads did not lose accuracy or smoothness despite changes in vigor is interesting and suggests a shift in the speed-accuracy tradeoff. Could the authors include accuracy and smoothness measures in the main figures rather than only in supplementary materials? I think it would make the manuscript more complete.

      (4) It is a bit unclear to me whether the variance assumptions for ANOVAs were checked, for instance, in Figure 3H.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary

      The strength of this manuscript lies in the behavior: mice use a continuous auditory background (pink vs brown noise) to set a rule for interpreting an identical single-whisker deflection (lick in W+ and withhold in W− contexts) while always licking to a brief 10 kHz tone. Behaviorally, animals acquire the rule and switch rapidly at block transitions and take a few trials to fully integrate the context cue. What's nice about this behavior is the separate auditory cue, which shows the animals remain engaged in the task, so it's not just that the mice check out (i.e., become disengaged in the W- context). The authors then use optical tools, combining cortex-wide optogenetic inactivation (using localized inhibition in a grid-like fashion) with widefield calcium imaging to map what regions are necessary for the task and what the local and global dynamics are. Classic whisker sensorimotor nodes (wS1/wS2/wM/ALM) behave as expected with silencing reducing whisker-evoked licking. Retrosplenial cortex (RSC) emerges as a somewhat unexpected, context-specific node: silencing RSC (and tjS1) increases licking selectively in W−, arguing that these regions contribute to applying the "don't lick" policy in that context. I say somewhat because work from the Delamater group points to this possibility, albeit in a Pavlovian conditioning task and without neural data. I would still recommend the authors of the current manuscript review that work to see whether there is a relevant framework or concept (Castiello, Zhang, Delamater, 'The retrosplenial cortex as a possible 'sensory integration' area: a neural network modeling approach of the differential outcomes effect of negative patterning', 2021, Neurobiology of Learning and Memory).

      The widefield imaging shows that RSC is the earliest dorsal cortical area to show W+ vs W− divergence after the whisker stimulus, preceding whisker motor cortex, consistent with RSC injecting context into the sensorimotor flow. A "Context Off" control (continuous white noise; same block structure) impairs context discrimination, indicating the continuous background is actually used to set the rule (an important addition!) Pre-stimulus functional-connectivity analyses suggest that there is some activity correlation that maps to the context presumably due to the continuous background auditory context. Simultaneous opto+imaging projects perturbations into a low-dimensional subspace that separates lick vs no-lick trajectories in an interpretable way.

      In my view, this is a clear, rigorous systems-level study that identifies an important role for RSC in context-dependent sensorimotor transformation, thereby expanding RSC's involvement beyond navigation/memory into active sensing and action selection. The behavioral paradigm is thoughtfully designed, the claims related to the imaging are well defended, and the causal mapping is strong. I have a few suggestions for clarity that may require a bit of data analysis. I also outline one key limitation that should be discussed, but is likely beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      Major strengths

      (1) The task is a major strength. It asks the animal to generate differential motor output to the same sensory stimulus, does so in a block-based manner, and the Context-Off condition convincingly shows that the continuous contextual cue is necessary. The auditory tone control ensures this is more than a 'motivational' context but is decision-related. In fact, the slightly higher bias to lick on the catch trials in the W+ context is further evidence for this.

      (2) The dorsal-cortex optogenetic grid avoids a 'look-where-we-expect' approach and lets RSC fall out as a key node. The authors then follow this up with pharmacology and latency analyses to rule out simple motor confounds. Overall, this is rigorous and thoughtfully done.

      (3) While the mesoscale imaging doesn't allow for cellular resolution, it allows for mapping of the flow of information. It places RSC early in the context-specific divergence after whisker onset, a valuable piece that complements prior work.

      (4) The baseline (pre-stim) functional connectivity and the opto-perturbation projections into a task subspace increase the significance of the work by moving beyond local correlates.

      Key limitation

      The current optogenetic window begins ~10 ms before the sensory cue and extends 1s after, which is ideal for perturbing within-trial dynamics but cannot isolate whether RSC is required to maintain the context-specific rule during the baseline. Because context is continuously available, it makes me wonder whether RSC is the locus maintaining or, instead, gating the context signal. The paper's results are fully consistent with that possibility, but causality in the pre-stimulus window remains an open question. (As a pointer for future work, pre-stimulus-only inactivation, silencing around block switches, or context-omission probe trials (e.g., removing the background noise unexpectedly within a W+ or W- context block), could help separate 'holding' from 'gating' of the rule. But I'm not suggesting these are needed for this manuscript, but would be interesting for future studies.)

  5. www.scratchapixel.com www.scratchapixel.com
    1. If B is a unit vector, the operation A⋅B yields ||A||cos⁡(θ), signifying the magnitude of A's projection in B's direction, with a negative sign if the direction is reversed. This is termed the scalar projection of A onto B.

      Chat with Gemini:<br /> Lee:

      I'm taking an online course of 3D graphics. Geometry (as it pertains to 3D graphics on computers) is the current focus. The text just said:

      If B is a unit vector, the operation A⋅B yields ∥A∥cos(θ), signifying the magnitude of A's projection in B's direction, with a negative sign if the direction is reversed. This is termed the scalar projection of A onto B. Can you explain this better to me? What does "magnitude of A's (a non-unit vector) projection in B's (a unit vector) direction " mean?

      Gemini:<br /> This is one of the most fundamental concepts in 3D graphics, but the math jargon can sometimes obscure the simple visual reality.

      To understand "the magnitude of A's projection in B's direction," the best tool is the Shadow Analogy.

      1. The Shadow Analogy

      Imagine Vector A is a stick floating in space. Vector B represents the ground (or a specific direction along the ground).

      If you were to shine a light directly from above (perpendicular to the ground B), the stick (A) would cast a shadow onto the ground.

      • The Projection: The "shadow" itself is the projection.
      • The Magnitude: The length of that shadow is the "magnitude of the projection."

      So, when the text says "magnitude of A's projection in B's direction," it is simply asking: "How much of Vector A is pointing in the same direction as Vector B?"

      2. Why does B have to be a Unit Vector?

      This is the crucial part that often trips people up.

      In 3D graphics, a Unit Vector has a length of exactly 1. It is used purely to point the way; it contains direction information but no "scale" or "weight."

      The formula for the dot product is:

      ** MISSING FORMULAS HERE **

      If B is a unit vector, then . The formula simplifies to:

      If B wasn't a unit vector (say, it was 5 units long), the result would be the length of the shadow multiplied by 5. That gives you a useless number if you just wanted to measure the shadow. By ensuring B is length 1, the math gives you the exact, unscaled length of the shadow of A.

      3. Visualizing the Angles (The "Negative" Sign)

      The text mentioned a "negative sign if the direction is reversed." This happens based on the angle () between the two vectors.

      • Acute Angle (): The vectors point generally in the same direction. The shadow falls forward along B. The result is Positive.
      • Right Angle (): The vectors are perpendicular. There is no shadow (it's just a dot). The result is Zero.
      • Obtuse Angle (): The vectors point generally away from each other. The shadow falls backward behind the start of B. The result is Negative.

      Summary Table

      ``` | Concept | The Visual | The Math | | ----------------- | ---------------------------------------- | ------------- | | Vector A | The object casting the shadow. | ∥A∥ | | Vector B (Unit) | The ground/direction we measure against. | ∥B∥=1 | | Dot Product (A⋅B) | The length of the shadow. | A⋅B=∥A∥cos(θ) |

      ```

      Why do you need this in 3D Graphics?

      You will use this constantly. Here are two immediate examples:

      1. Lighting: If B is the surface normal (pointing out of a polygon) and A is the light direction, the dot product tells you how directly the light hits the surface. High projection = Bright light. Negative projection = The light is hitting the back of the polygon (it's dark).<br />
      2. Mario running up a slope: If B is the direction of the slope and A is Mario's velocity, the projection tells you how fast he is actually moving up the hill vs just moving forward.

      Lee:

      So if B was pointing directly along the +X axis (X=1, Y=0, Z=0) and A was angled up from that and longer (X=2, Y=2, Z=0), A's magnitude would be ~2.83. But A⋅B would be 2 (It's X coordinate in this specific scenario). If you made a triangle with A being one side and B specifying the direction of the adjacent side, and drew a straight line from the end of A straight down to and perpendicular to the direction B, the length of that "B" side would be A⋅B assuming ∥B∥ was 1. Does that sound correct?

      Gemini:<br /> Yes, that is exactly correct. You have perfectly grasped the geometric interpretation of the dot product.

      Your example scenario is spot on. Here is the breakdown of why your visualization works, mapping your description to the standard trigonometry terms.

      1. The Math Check

      Using your numbers:

      • Vector A: (Magnitude )
      • Vector B: (Unit vector along X)

      The calculation is:

      You correctly identified that because B is aligned perfectly with the X-axis, the "shadow" of A is simply its X-coordinate (2).

      2. The Triangle Visualization

      You described making a triangle. This is the exact geometric definition used in physics and graphics.

      • The Hypotenuse: This is your Vector A (length ).
      • The "Drop" Line: The line you drew "straight down to and perpendicular to B" is the opposite side of the triangle.
      • The Adjacent Side: The side lying along the direction of B is the Scalar Projection. Its length is exactly the dot product (2).

      In trigonometry terms:

      3. One Crucial Detail

      You added the condition: "assuming ∥B∥ was 1."

      This is the most important part of your insight. If Vector B had been (2, 0, 0) (length of 2), the dot product would have been:

      (2×2) + (2×0) + (0×0) = 4

      The math would return 4, but the "shadow" is physically still only 2 units long. The dot product scales the result by the magnitude of B. That is why we must normalize B (make it a unit vector) before using it as a "measuring stick."


      You have the concept of Scalar Projection (the length of the shadow) down cold.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary

      Boccato et al. present an ambitious and thoughtfully developed framework, SynaptoGen, which proposes a differentiable model of synaptogenesis grounded in gene-expression vectors, protein interaction probabilities, and conductance rules. The authors aim to bridge the gap between computational connectomics and synthetic biological intelligence by enabling gradient-based optimization of genetically encoded circuit architectures. They support this goal with mathematical derivations, simulation experiments across several RL benchmarks, and a biologically grounded validation using C. elegans adhesion-molecule co-expression data. The paper is timely and conceptually compelling, offering a unified formulation of synaptic multiplicity and synaptic weight formation that can be integrated directly into learning systems.

      Strengths

      (1) Well-motivated framework with clear conceptual contributions.

      (2) Rigorous mathematical development.

      (3) Compelling empirical validation.

      (4) Excellent framing and discussion of future impact.

      Weaknesses

      (1) Overstated claims in the abstract and discussion.

      (2) Ambiguity in "first of its kind" assertions.

    1. To Gen or Not To Gen: The Ethical Use of Generative AI 33 minute read This blog entry started out as a translation of an article that my colleague Jakob and I wrote for a German magazine. After that we added more stuff and enriched it by additional references and sources. We aim at giving an overview about many - but not all - aspects that we learned about GenAI and that we consider relevant for an informed ethical opinion. As for the depth of information, we are just scratching the surface; hopefully, the loads of references can lead you to diving in deeper wherever you want. Since we are both software developers our views are biased and distorted. Keep also in mind that any writing about a “hot” topic like this is nothing but a snapshot of what we think to know today. By the time you read it the authors’ knowledge and opinions have already changed. Last Update: December 8, 2025. Table of ContentsPermalink Abstract About us Johannes Link Jakob Schnell Introduction Ethics, what does that even mean? Clarification of terms Basics Can LLMs think? What LLMs are good at GenAI as a knowledge source GenAI in software development Actual vs. promised benefits Harmful aspects of GenAI GenAI is an ecological disaster Power Water Electronic Waste GenAI threatens education and science GenAI is destroying the free internet. GenAI is a danger to democracy GenAI versus human creativity Digital colonialism Political aspects Conclusion Can there be ethical GenAI? How to act ethically AbstractPermalink ChatGPT, Gemini, Copilot. The number of generative AI applications (GenAI) and models is growing every day. In the field of software development in particular, code generation, coding assistants and vibe coding are on everyone’s lips. Like any technology, GenAI has two sides. The great promises are offset by numerous disadvantages: immense energy consumption, mountains of electronic waste, the proliferation of misinformation on the internet and the dubious handling of intellectual property are just a few of the many negative aspects. Ethically responsible behaviour requires us to look at all the advantages, disadvantages and collateral damages of a technology before we use it or recommend its use to others. In this article, we examine both sides and eventually arrive at our personal and naturally subjective answer to whether and how GenAI can be used in an ethical manner. About usPermalink Johannes LinkPermalink … has been programming for over 40 years, 30 of them professionally. Since the end of the last century, extreme programming and other human-centred software development approaches have been at the heart of his work. The meaningful and ethical implementation of his private and professional life has been his driving force for years. He has been involved with GenAI since the early days of OpenAI’s GPT language models. More about Johannes can be found at https://johanneslink.net. Jakob SchnellPermalink … studied mathematics and computer science and has been working as a software developer for 5 years. He works as a lecturer and course director in university and non-university settings. As a youth leader, he also comes into regular contact with the lives of children and young people. In all these environments, he observes the growing use of GenAI and its impact on people. IntroductionPermalink Ethics, what does that even mean?Permalink Ethical behaviour sounds like the title of a boring university seminar. However, if you look at the wikipedia article of the term 1, you will find that ‘how individuals behave when confronted with ethical dilemmas’ is at the heart of the definition. So it’s about us as humans taking responsibility and weighing up whether and how we do or don’t do certain things based on our values. We have to consider ethical questions in our work because all the technologies we use and promote have an impact on us and on others. Therefore, they are neither neutral nor without alternative. It is about weighing up the advantages and potential against the damage and risks; and that applies to everyone, not just us personally. Because often those who benefit from a development are different from those who suffer the consequences. As individuals and as a society, we have the right to decide whether and how we want to use technologies. Ideally, this should be in a way that benefits us all; but under no circumstances should it be in a way that benefits a small group and harms the majority. The crux of the matter is that ethical behaviour does not come for free. Ethics are neither efficient nor do they enhance your economic profit. That means that by acting according to your values you will, at some point, have to give something up. If you’re not willing to do that, you don’t have values - just opinions. Clarification of termsPermalink When we write ‘generative AI’ (GenAI), we are referring to a very specific subset of the many techniques and approaches that fall under the term ‘artificial intelligence’. Strictly speaking, these are a variety of very different approaches that range from symbolic logic, over automated planning up to the broad field of machine learning (ML). Nowadays most effort, hype and money goes into deep learning (DL): a subfield of ML that uses multi-layered artificial neural networks to discover statistical correlations (aka patterns) based on very large amounts of training data in order to reproduce those patterns later. Large language models (LLM) and related methods for generating images, videos and speech now make it possible to apply this idea to completely unstructured data. While traditional ML methods often managed with a few dozen parameters, these models now work with several trillion (10^12) parameters. In order for this to produce the desired results, both the amount of training data and the training duration must be increased by several orders of magnitude. This brings us to the definition of what we mean by ‘GenAI’ in this article: Hyperscaled models that can only be developed, trained and deployed by a handful of companies in the world. These are primarily the GenAI services provided by OpenAI, Anthropic, Google and Microsoft, or based on these services. We also focus primarily on language models; the generation of images, videos, speech and music plays only a minor role in this article. Our focus on hyperscale services does not mean that other ML methods are free of ethical problems; however, we are dealing with a completely different order of magnitude of damage and risk here. For example, there do exist variations of GenAI that use the same or similar techniques, but on a much smaller scale and restricted domains (e.g. AlphaFold 2). These approaches tend to bring more value with fewer downsides. BasicsPermalink GenAI models are designed to interpolate and extrapolate 3, i.e. to fill in the gaps between training data and speculate beyond the limits of the training data. Together with the stochastic nature of the training data, this results in some interesting properties: GenAI models ‘invent’ answers; with LLMs, we like to refer to this as ‘hallucinations’. GenAI models do not know what is true or false, good or bad, efficient or effective, only what is statistically probable or improbable in relation to training data, context and query (aka prompt). GenAI models cannot explain their output; they have no capability of introspection. What is sold as introspection is just more output, with the previous output re-injected. GenAI models do not learn from you; they only draw from their training material. The learning experience is faked by reinjecting prior input into a conversation’s context 4. The context, i.e. the set of input parameters provided, is decisive for the accuracy of the generated result, but can also steer the model in the wrong direction. Increasing the context window makes a query much more computation-intensive - likely in a quadratic way. Therefore, the promised increase of “maximum context window” of many models is mostly fake 5. The reliability of LLMs cannot be fundamentally increased by even greater scaling 6. Can LLMs think?Permalink Proponents of the language-of-thought hypothesis 7 believe it is possible for purely language-based models to acquire the capabilities of the human brain – reasoning, modelling, abstraction and much more. Some enthusiasts even claim that today’s models have already acquired this capability. However, recent studies 8 9 show that today’s models are neither capable of genuine reasoning nor do they build internal models of the world. Moreover, “…according to current neuroscience, human thinking is largely independent of human language 10” and there is fundamental scientific doubt that achieving human cognition through computation is achievable in practice let alone by scaling up training of deep networks 11. An example of a lack of understanding of the world is the prompt ‘Give me a random number between 0 and 50’. The typical GenAI response to this is ‘27’, and it is significantly more reliable than true randomness would allow. (If you don’t believe it, just try it out!) This is because 27 is the most likely answer in the GenAI training data – and not because the model understands what ‘random’ means. ‘Chain of Thought (CoT)’ approaches and ‘Reasoning models’ attempt to improve reasoning by breaking down a prompt, the query to the model, into individual (logical) steps and then delegating these individual steps back to the LLM. This allows some well-known reasoning benchmarks to be met, but it also multiplies the necessary computational effort by a factor between 30 and 700 12. In addition, multistep reasoning lets individual errors chain together to form large errors. And yet, CoT models do not seem to possess any real reasoning abilities 13 14 and improve the overall accuracy of LLMs only marginally 15. The following thought experiment from 16 underscores the lack of real “thinking” capabilities: LLMs have simultaneous access to significantly more knowledge than humans. Together with the postulated ability of LLMs to think logically and draw conclusions, new insights should just fall from the sky. But they don’t. Getting new insights from LLMs would require these to be already encoded in the existing training material, and to be decoded and extracted by pure statistical means. What LLMs are good atPermalink Undoubtedly, LLMs represent a major qualitative advance when it comes to extracting information from texts, generating texts in natural and artificial languages, and machine translation. But even here, the error rate, and above all the type of error (‘hallucinations’), is so high that autonomous, unsupervised use in serious applications must be considered highly negligent. GenAI as a knowledge sourcePermalink As we have pointed out above, LLMs cannot differentiate between true and false - regardless of the training material. It does not answer the question “What is XYZ?” but the question “How would an answer to question ‘What is XYZ?’ look like?”. Nevertheless, many people claim that the answers that ChatGPT and alike provide for the typical what-how-when-who queries are good enough and often better than what a “normal” web search would have given us. Arguably, this is the most prevalent use case for “AI” bots today. The problem is that most of the time we will never learn about the inaccuracies, left-outs, distortions and biases that the answer contained - unless we re-check everything, which defies the whole purpose of speeding up knowledge retrieval. The less we already know, the better the “AI’s” answer looks to us, but the less equipped we are to spot the problems. A recent by the BBC and 22 Public Service Media organizations shows that 45% of all “AI” assistants’ answers on questions about news and current affairs have significant errors 17. Moreover, LLMs are easy prey for manipulation - either by the service providing organization or by third parties. A recent study claims that even multi-billion-parameter models can be “poisoned” by injecting just a few corrupted documents 18. So, if anything is at stake all output from LLMs must be carefully validated. Doing that, however, would contradict the whole point of using “AI” to speed up knowledge acquisition. GenAI in software developmentPermalink The creation and modification of computer programmes is considered a prime domain for the use of LLMs. This is partly because programming languages have less linguistic variance and ambiguity than natural languages. Moreover, there are many methods for automatically checking generated source code, such as compiling, static code analysis and automated testing. This simplifies the validation of generated code and thereby gives an additional feeling of trust. Nevertheless, individual reports on the success of coding assistants such as Copilot, Cursor, etc. vary greatly. They range from ‘completely replacing me as a developer’ to ‘significantly hindering my work’. Some argue that coding agents considerably reduce the time they have to invest in “boilerplate” work, like writing tests, creating data transfer objects or connecting your domain code to external libraries. Others counter by pointing out that delegating these drudgeries to GenAI makes you miss opportunities to get rid of them, e.g. by introducing a new abstraction or automating parts of your pipeline, and to learn about the intricacies and failure modes of the external library. Other than old-school code generation or code libraries prompting a coding agent is not “just another layer of abstraction”. It misses out on several crucial aspects of a useful abstraction: Its output is not deterministic. You cannot rely on any agent producing the same code next time you feed it the same prompt. The agent does not hide the implementation details, nor does it allow you to reliably change those details if the previous implementation turns out to be inadequate. Code that is output by an LLM, even if it is generated “for free”, has to be considered and maintained each time you touch the related logic or feature. The agent does not tell you if the amount of details you give in your prompt is sufficient for figuring out an adequate implementation. On the contrary, the LLM will always fill the specification holes with some statistically derived assumptions. Sadly, serious studies on the actual benefits of GenAI in software development are rare. The randomised trial by Metr 19 provides an initial indication, measuring a decline in development speed for experienced developers. An informal study by ThoughtWorks estimates the potential productivity gain from using GenAI in software development at around 5-15% 20. If “AI coding” were increasing programmers’ productivity by any big number, we would see a measurable growth of new software in app stores and OSS repositories. But we don’t, the numbers are flat at best 2122. But even if we assume a productivity increase in coding through GenAI, there are still two points that further diminish this postulated efficiency gain: Firstly, the results of the generation must still be cross-checked by human developers. However, it is well known that humans are poor checkers and lose both attention and enjoyment in the process. Secondly, software development is only to a small extent about writing and changing code. The most important part is discovering solutions and learning about the use of these solutions in their context. Peter Naur calls this ‘programming as theory building’ 23. Even the perfect coding assistant can therefore only take over the coding part of software development. For the essential rest, we still need humans. If we now also consider the finding that using AI can relatively quickly lead to a loss of problem-solving skills 24 or that these skills are not acquired at all, then the overall benefit of using GenAI in professional software development is more than questionable. As long as programming - and every technicality that comes with it - will not be fully replaced by some kind of AI, we will still need expert developers who can programm, maintain and debug code to the finest level of detail. Where, we wonder, will those senior developers come from when companies replace their junior staff with coding agents? Actual vs. promised benefitsPermalink If you read testimonials about the use of GenAI that people perceive as successful, you will mostly encounter scenarios in which ‘AI’ helps to make tasks that are perceived as boring, unnecessarily time-consuming or actually pointless faster or more pleasant. So it’s mainly about personal convenience and perceived efficiency. Entertainment also plays a major role: the poem for Grandma’s birthday, the funny song for the company anniversary or the humorous image for the presentation are quickly and supposedly inexpensively generated by ‘AI’. However, the promises made by the dominant GenAI companies are quite different: solving the climate crisis, providing the best medical advice for everyone, revolutionising science, ‘democratising’ education and much more. GPT5, for example, is touted by Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, as follows: ‘With GPT-5, it’s now like talking to an expert — a legitimate PhD-level expert in any area you need […] they can help you with whatever your goals are.’ 25 However, to date, there is still no actual use case that provides a real qualitative benefit for humanity or at least larger groups. The question ‘What significant problem (for us as a society) does GenAI solve?’ remains unanswered. On the contrary: While machine learning and deep learning methods certainly have useful applications, the most profitable area of application for ‘AI’ at present is the discovery and development of new oil and gas fields 26. Harmful aspects of GenAIPermalink But regardless of how one assesses the benefits of this technology, we must also consider the downsides, because only then can we ultimately make an informed and fair assessment. In fact, the range of negative effects of hyperscaled generative AI that can already be observed is vast. Added to this are numerous risks that have the potential to cause great social harm. Let’s take a look at what we consider to be the biggest threats: GenAI is an ecological disasterPermalink PowerPermalink The data centres required for training and operating large generative models 27 far exceed today’s dimensions in terms of both number and size. The projected data centre energy demand in the USA is predicted to grow from 4.4% of total electricity in 2023 to 22% in 2028 28. In addition, the typical data centre electricity mix is more CO2-intensive than the average mix. There is an estimated raise of ~11 percent for coal generated electricity in the US, as well as tripled emissions of greenhouse gases worldwide by 2030 - compared to the scenario without GenAI technology 29. Just recently Sam Altman from OpenAI blogged some numbers about the energy and water usage of ChatGPT for “the average query” 30. On the one hand, an average is rather meaningless when a distribution is heavily unsymmetric; the numbers for queries with large contexts or “chain of reasoning” computations would be orders of magnitude higher. Thus, the potential efficiency gains from more economical language models are more than offset by the proliferation of use, e.g. through CoT approaches and ‘agent systems’. On the other hand, big tech’s disclosure of energy consumption (e.g. by Google 31) is intentionally selective. Ketan Joshi goes into quite some details why experts think that the AI industry is hiding the full picture 32. Since building new power plants - even coal or gas fuelled ones - takes a lot of time, data center companies are even reviving old jet engines for powering their new hyper-scalers 33. You have to be aware that those engines are not only much more noisy than other power plants but also pump out nitrous oxide, one of the main chemicals responsible for acid rain 34. WaterPermalink Another problem is the immensely high water consumption of these data centres 35. After all, cooling requires clean water in drinking quality in order to not contaminate or clog the cooling pipes and pumps. Already today, new data centre locations are competing with human consumption of drinking water. According to Bloomberg News about two-thirds of data-centers that were built or developed in 2022 are located in areas that are already under “water-stress” 36. In the US alone “AI servers […] could generate an annual water footprint ranging from 731 to 1,125 million m3” 37. It’s not only an American problem, though. In other areas of the world the water-thirsty data centers also compete with the drinking water supply for humans 38. Electronic WastePermalink Another ecological problem is being noticeably exacerbated by ‘AI’: the amount of electronic waste (e-waste) that we ship mainly to “Third World” countries and which is responsible for soil contamination there. Efficient training and querying of very large neural networks requires very large quantities of specialised chips (GPUs). These chips often have to be replaced and disposed of within two years. The typical data center might not last longer than 3 to 5 years before it has to be rebuilt in large parts39. In summary, it can be said that GenAI is at least an accelerator of the ecological catastrophe that threatens the earth. And it is the argument for Google, Amazon and Microsoft to completely abolish their zero CO2 targets 40 and replace them with investments of several hundred billion dollars for new data centers. GenAI threatens education and sciencePermalink People often try to use GenAI in areas where they feel overloaded and overwhelmed: training, studying, nursing, psychotherapeutic care, etc. The fields of application for ‘AI’ are therefore a good indication of socially neglected and underfunded areas. The fact that LLMs are very good at conveying the impression of genuine knowledge and competence makes their use particularly attractive in these areas. A teacher under the simultaneous pressure of lesson preparation, corrections and covering for sick colleagues turns to ChatGPT to quickly create an exercise sheet. A student under pressure to get good grades has their English essay corrected by ‘AI’. The researcher under pressure to publish will ‘save’ research time by reading the AI-generated summary of relevant papers – even if they are completely wrong in terms of content 41. Tech companies like OpenAI and Microsoft play on that situation by offering their ‘AI’ for free or for little money to students and universities. The goal is obvious: Students that get hooked on outsourcing some of their “tedious” task to a service will continue to use - and eventually buy - this service after graduation. What falls by the wayside are problem-solving skills, engagement with complex sources, and the generation of knowledge through understanding and supplementing existing knowledge. Some even argue that AI is destroying critical education and learning itself 42: Students aren’t just learning less; their brains are learning not to learn. The training cycle of schools and universities is fast. Teachers are already reporting that pupils and students have acquired noticeably less competence in recent years, but have instead become dependent on unreliable ‘tools’ 43. The real problem with using GenAI to do assignments is not cheating, but students “are not just undermining their ability to learn, but to someday lead.” 44 GenAI is destroying the free internet.Permalink The fight against bots on the internet is almost as old as the internet itself – and has been quite successful so far. Multifactor authentication, reCaptcha, honeypots and browser fingerprinting are just a few of the tools that help protect against automated abuse. However, GenAI takes this problem to a new level – in two ways. To make ‘the internet’ usable as the main source for training LLMs, AI companies use so-called ‘crawlers’. These essentially behave like DDoS attackers: They send tens of thousands of requests at once, from several hundred IPs in a very short time. Robot.txt files are ignored; instead, the source IP and user agent are obscured 45. These practices have massive disadvantages for providers of genuine content: Costs for additional bandwidth. Lost advertising revenue, as search engines now offer LLM-generated summaries instead of links to the sources. This threatens the existence of remaining independent journalism in particular 46. Misuse of own content for AI-supported competition. If the place where knowledge is generated is separated from the place where it is consumed, and if this makes the performance of generation even more opaque than before, the motivation to continue generating knowledge also declines. For projects such as Wikipedia, this means fewer donors and fewer contributors. Open communities often have no other option but to shut themselves off. Another aspect is the flooding of the internet with generated content that cannot be automatically distinguished from non-generated content. This content overwhelms the maintainers of open source software or portals such as Wikipedia 47. If this content is then also entered by humans – often in the belief that they are doing good – it is no longer possible to take action against the methodology. In the long run, this means that less and less authentic training material will lead to increasingly poor results from the models. Last but not least, autonomously acting agents make the already dire state of internet security much worse 48. Think of handing all your personal data and credentials to a robot that is distributing and using that data across the web, wherever and whenever it deems it necessary for reaching some goal. is controlled by LLMs who are vulnerable to all kinds of prompt injection attacs 49. is controlled by and reporting to companies that do not have your best interest in mind. has no awareness and knowledge about the implication of its actions. is acting on your behalf and thereby making you accountable. GenAI is a danger to democracyPermalink The manipulation of public opinion through social media precedes the arrival of LLMs. However, this technology gives the manipulators much more leverage. By flooding the web with fake news, fake videos and fake everything undemocratic (or just criminal) parties make it harder and harder for any serious media and journalism to get the attention of the public. People no longer have a common factual basis, which is necessary for all social negotiations. If you don’t agree on at least some basic facts, arguing about policies and measures to take is pointless. Without negotiations democracy will be dying; in many parts of the world it already is. GenAI versus human creativityPermalink Art and creativity are also threatened by generative AI. The impact on artists’ incomes of logos, images and illustrations now being easily and quickly created by AI prompts is obvious. A similar effect can also be observed in other areas. Studies show that poems written by LLMs are indistinguishable from those written by humans and that generative AI products are often rated more highly 50. This can be explained by a trend towards the middle and the average, which can also be observed in the music and film scenes film scene: due to its basic function, GenAI cannot create anything fundamentally new, but replicates familiar patterns, which is precisely why it is so well received by the public. Ironically, ‘AI’ draws its ‘creativity’ from the content of those it seeks to replace. Much of this content was used as training material against the will of the rights holders. Whether this constitutes a copyright infringement has not yet been decided; morally, the situation seems clear. The creative community is the first to be seriously threatened by GenAI in its livelihood 51. It’s not a coincidence that a big part of GenAI efforts is targeted at “democratizing art”. This framing is completely upside down. Art has been one of the most democratic activities for a very long time. Everybody can do it; but not everybody wants to do put in the effort, the practicing time and the soul. Real art is not about the product but about the process, which requires real humans. Generating art without the friction is about getting rid of the humans in the loop - and still making money. Digital colonialismPermalink The huge amount of data required by hyperscaled AI approaches makes it impossible to completely curate the learning content. And yet, one would like to avoid the reproduction of racist, inhuman and criminal content. Attempts are being made to get the problem under control by subsequently adapting the models to human preferences and local laws through additional ‘reinforcement learning from human feedback (RLHF)’ 52. The cheap labour for this very costly process can be found in the Global South. There, people are exposed to hours of hate speech, child abuse, domestic violence and other horrific scenarios in their poorly paid jobs in order to filter them out of the training material of large AI companies 53. Many emerge from these activities traumatised. However, it is not only people who are exploited in the less developed regions of the world, but also nature: the poisoning of the soil with chemicals during the extraction of raw materials for digital chips, as well as the contamination caused by our electronic waste and its improper disposal, are collateral damage that we willingly accept and whose long-term consequences are currently extremely difficult to assess. Here, too, the “developed” world profits, whereas the negative aspects are outsourced to the former colonies and other poor regions of the world. Political aspectsPermalink As software developers, we would like to ‘leave politics out of it’ and instead focus entirely on the cool tech. However, this is impossible when the advocates of this technology pursue strong political and ideological goals. In the case of GenAI, we can cleary see that the US corporations behind it (OpenAI, Google, Meta, Microsoft, etc.) have no problem with the current authoritarian – some say fascist – US government 54. In concrete terms, this means, among other things, that the models are explicitly manipulated to be less liberal or simply not to generate any output that could upset the CEO or the president 55. Even more serious is the fact that many of the leading minds behind these corporations and their financiers adhere to beliefs that can be broadly described as digital fascism. These include Peter Thiel, Marc Andreessen, Alex Karp, JD Vance, Elon Musk and many others on “The Authoritarian Stack” 56. Their ideologies, disguised as rational theories, are called longtermism and effective altruism. What they have in common is that they consider democracy and the state to be obsolete models, compassion to be ‘woke’, and that the current problems of humanity are insignificant, as our future lies in the colonisation of space and the merging of humans with artificial superintelligence 57. Do we want to give people who adhere to these ideologies (even) more power, money and influence by using and paying for their products? Do we want to feed their computer systems with our data? Do we really want to expose ourselves and our children to the answers from chatbots which they have manipulated? Not quite as abstruse, but similarly misanthropic, is the imminent displacement of many jobs by AI, as postulated by the same corporations in order to put pressure on employees with this claim. Demanding a large salary? Insisting on your legal rights? Complaining about too much workload? Doubts about the company’s goals? Then we’ll just replace you with cheap and uncomplaining AI! Whichever way you look at it, AI and GenAI are already being used politically. If we go along without resistance, we are endorsing this approach and supporting it with our time, our attention and our money. ConclusionPermalink Ideally, we would like to quantify our assessment by adding up the advantages, adding up the disadvantages and finally checking whether the balance is positive or negative. Unfortunately, in our specific case, neither the benefits nor the harm are easily quantifiable; we must therefore consult our social and personal values. Discussions about GenAI usually revolve purely around its benefits. Often, the capabilities of all ‘AI’ technologies (e.g. protein folding with AlphaFold 2) are lumped together, even though they have little in common with hyperscaling GenAI. However, if we consider the consequences and do not ignore the problems this technology entails – i.e. if we consider both sides in terms of ethics – the assessment changes. Convenience, speed and entertainment are then weighed against numerous damages and risks to the environment, the state and humanity. In this sense, the ethical use and further expansion of GenAI in its current form is not possible. Can there be ethical GenAI?Permalink If the use of GenAI is not ethical today what would have to change, which negative effects of GenAI would have to disappear or at least be greatly reduced in order to tip the balance between benefits and harms in the other direction? The models would have to be trained exclusively with publicly known content whose original creators consent to its use in training AI models. The environmental damage would have to be reduced to such an extent that it does not further fuel the climate crisis. Society would have to get full access to the training and operation of the models in order to rule out manipulation by third parties and restrict their use to beneficial purposes. This would require democratic processes, good regulation and oversight through judges and courts. The misuse and harming of others, e.g., through copyright theft or digital colonialism, would have to be prevented. Is such a change conceivable? Perhaps. Is it likely, given the interest groups and political aspects involved? Probably not

      All these factors are achievable I think, or will be soonish. Smaller models, better sourced data sets, niche models, etc. But not with current actors as mentioned at the end.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The study examined the extent to which children's word recognition skill improves across early development, becoming faster, more accurate and less variable, and the extent to which word recognition skill is related to children's concurrent and later vocabulary knowledge.

      Strengths:

      The main strength of the study comes from the dataset, which recycles previously collected data from 24 studies to examine the development of word recognition skill using data from 1963 children. This maximizes the impact of previously collected data while also allowing the study to reliably ask big-picture questions on the development of word recognition skill and its relation to chronological age and vocabulary knowledge. Data analysis is rigorous, thought through and very clearly described. Data and code necessary to reproduce the manuscript are shared on the project's GitHub.

      Weaknesses:

      The limitations of the study are acknowledged to some extent, but need to be improved and ensured that they run throughout the manuscript. Thus, in the discussion, the authors note that the approach is observational and exploratory, and highlight for me a key alternative explanation of the findings, namely that faster children could be faster due to their larger vocabulary, rather than faster children learning more words. Indeed, the latter explanation for the relationship is called into question, given that growth in speed was not related to growth in vocabulary. Here, the authors note that the null result may be related to the fact that they do not sufficiently precise estimates of growth slopes, rather than taking the alternative explanation seriously that there may not be as causal a link between being a faster word learner and a better word learner (learn more words). This is especially since, but correct me if I'm wrong here, the current vocabulary size is not taken into consideration in the model examining vocabulary growth. Given the increasing number of studies showing that current vocabulary knowledge predicts vocabulary growth (Laing, Kalinowski et al, Siew & Vitevitch), one simple alternative explanation is that current vocabulary knowledge predicts both current word recognition skill and later vocabulary knowledge. Is there anything in the data speaking against this hypothesis?

      Equally, while the SEM examines vocabulary growth controlling for age, I wonder about the other way around. What would happen to the effect of age on word recognition skill (in the LME model, S8) if one were to add concurrent vocabulary size? So does chronological age explain word recognition skill or vocabulary knowledge? Right now, the manuscript describes this effect purely related to chronological age, but is it age per se or other cognitive abilities, including a key change across development, namely, vocabulary size? Thus, the presentation of the skill learning hypothesis suggests that age is a proxy for experience, while you actually have here a very nice proxy for experience in terms of children's vocabulary size.

      Critically, while the discussion is more nuanced, the way the abstract is concluded and the way the Introduction is phrased suggest that the study is able to answer a causal question, which, as the authors themselves note, is not possible. The abstract, for instance, states that word recognition becomes faster, more accurate and less variable...consistent with a process of skill learning. And also that this skill plays a role in supporting early language learning, which is very causal language. I don't think you can really claim that you are testing the two hypotheses you suggest here. The work is definitely embedded in the context of these hypotheses, but are you really able to test them? My worry is that while the discussion is more nuanced, the extent to which this study will then be cited down the line as showing that children learn more words down the line because they are faster at recognizing words, and anything that you can do to tamper with such interpretations would be good for the literature. For me, this should not just be relegated to the discussion but should be touched upon in the abstract and Introduction.

      Finally, it would help to talk more about the mechanisms at work in any relationship between word recognition and language learning. It seems to me that this would rely on some predictive processing framework, given the description on page 4, and it would be good to make this clear (faster and more accurately you can recognize a ball, better use this evidence to infer the speaker's intended meaning). Equally, when referring to word recognition, it would be good to clarify what this refers to - how well a child knows what a word refers to (and in the context of LWL, what it does not refer to) or how quickly it directs attention to what is referred to.

      With regards to the data, I wonder if there is a clustering of kids past 24 months that is happening here, looking at Figures 1 and 2, where it seems like there is less change past the 24-month point. Is there any way to look at whether the effect of age or vocabulary on word recognition is not linear but asymptotic?

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Wu and colleagues aimed to explain previous findings that adolescents, compared to adults, show reduced cooperation following cooperative behaviour from a partner in several social scenarios. The authors analysed behavioural data from adolescents and adults performing a zero-sum Prisoner's Dilemma task and compared a range of social and non-social reinforcement learning models to identify potential algorithmic differences. Their findings suggest that adolescents' lower cooperation is best explained by a reduced learning rate for cooperative outcomes, rather than differences in prior expectations about the cooperativeness of a partner. The authors situate their results within the broader literature, proposing that adolescents' behaviour reflects a stronger preference for self-interest rather than a deficit in mentalising.

      Strengths:

      The work as a whole suggests that, in line with past work, adolescents prioritise value accumulation, and this can be, in part, explained by algorithmic differences in weighted value learning. The authors situate their work very clearly in past literature, and make it obvious the gap they are testing and trying to explain. The work also includes social contexts that move the field beyond non-social value accumulation in adolescents. The authors compare a series of formal approaches that might explain the results and establish generative and modelcomparison procedures to demonstrate the validity of their winning model and individual parameters. The writing was clear, and the presentation of the results was logical and well-structured.

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing the strengths of our work.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) I also have some concerns about the methods used to fit and approximate parameters of interest. Namely, the use of maximum likelihood versus hierarchical methods to fit models on an individual level, which may reduce some of the outliers noted in the supplement, and also may improve model identifiability.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. Following the comment, we added a hierarchical Bayesian estimation. We built a hierarchical model with both group-level (adolescent group and adult group) and individual-level structures for the best-fitting model. Four Markov chains with 4,000 samples each were run, and the model converged well (see Figure supplement 7).

      We then analyzed the posterior parameters for adolescents and adults separately. The results were consistent with those from the MLE analysis. These additional results have been included in the Appendix Analysis section (also see Figure supplement 5 and 7). In addition, we have updated the code and provided the link for reference. We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion, which improved our analysis.

      (2) There was also little discussion given the structure of the Prisoner's Dilemma, and the strategy of the game (that defection is always dominant), meaning that the preferences of the adolescents cannot necessarily be distinguished from the incentives of the game, i.e. they may seem less cooperative simply because they want to play the dominant strategy, rather than a lower preferences for cooperation if all else was the same.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and agree that adolescents’ lower cooperation may partly reflect a rational response to the incentive structure of the Prisoner’s Dilemma. 

      However, our computational modeling explicitly addressed this possibility. Model 4 (inequality aversion) captures decisions that are driven purely by self-interest or aversion to unequal outcomes, including a parameter reflecting disutility from advantageous inequality, which represents self-oriented motives. If participants’ behavior were solely guided by the payoff-dominant strategy, this model should have provided the best fit. However, our model comparison showed that Model 5 (social reward) performed better in both adolescents and adults, suggesting that cooperative behavior is better explained by valuing social outcomes beyond payoff structures.

      Besides, if adolescents’ lower cooperation is that they strategically respond to the payoff structure by adopting defection as the more rewarding option. Then, adolescents should show reduced cooperation across all rounds. Instead, adolescents and adults behaved similarly when partners defected, but adolescents cooperated less when partners cooperated and showed little increase in cooperation even after consecutive cooperative responses. This pattern suggests that adolescents’ lower cooperation cannot be explained solely by strategic responses to payoff structures but rather reflects a reduced sensitivity to others’ cooperative behavior or weaker social reciprocity motives. We have expanded our Discussion to acknowledge this important point and to clarify how the behavioral and modeling results address the reviewer’s concern.

      “Overall, these findings indicate that adolescents’ lower cooperation is unlikely to be driven solely by strategic considerations, but may instead reflect differences in the valuation of others’ cooperation or reduced motivation to reciprocate. Although defection is the payoff-dominant strategy in the Prisoner’s Dilemma, the selective pattern of adolescents’ cooperation and the model comparison results indicate that their reduced cooperation cannot be fully explained by strategic incentives, but rather reflects weaker valuation of social reciprocity.”

      Appraisal & Discussion:

      (3) The authors have partially achieved their aims, but I believe the manuscript would benefit from additional methodological clarification, specifically regarding the use of hierarchical model fitting and the inclusion of Bayes Factors, to more robustly support their conclusions. It would also be important to investigate the source of the model confusion observed in two of their models.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. In the revised manuscript, we have clarified the hierarchical Bayesian modeling procedure for the best-fitting model, including the group- and individual-level structure and convergence diagnostics. The hierarchical approach produced results that fully replicated those obtained from the original maximumlikelihood estimation, confirming the robustness of our findings. Please also see the response to (1).

      Regarding the model confusion between the inequality aversion (Model 4) and social reward (Model 5) models in the model recovery analysis, both models’ simulated behaviors were best captured by the baseline model. This pattern arises because neither model includes learning or updating processes. Given that our task involves dynamic, multi-round interactions, models lacking a learning mechanism cannot adequately capture participants’ trial-by-trial adjustments, resulting in similar behavioral patterns that are better explained by the baseline model during model recovery. We have added a clarification of this point to the Results:

      “The overlap between Models 4 and 5 likely arises because neither model incorporates a learning mechanism, making them less able to account for trial-by-trial adjustments in this dynamic task.”

      (4) I am unconvinced by the claim that failures in mentalising have been empirically ruled out, even though I am theoretically inclined to believe that adolescents can mentalise using the same procedures as adults. While reinforcement learning models are useful for identifying biases in learning weights, they do not directly capture formal representations of others' mental states. Greater clarity on this point is needed in the discussion, or a toning down of this language.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for this professional comment. We agree that our prior wording regarding adolescents’ capacity to mentalise was somewhat overgeneralized. Accordingly, we have toned down the language in both the Abstract and the Discussion to better align our statements with what the present study directly tests. Specifically, our revisions focus on adolescents’ and adults’ ability to predict others’ cooperation in social learning. This is consistent with the evidence from our analyses examining adolescents’ and adults’ model-based expectations and self-reported scores on partner cooperativeness (see Figure 4). In the revised Discussion, we state:

      “Our results suggest that the lower levels of cooperation observed in adolescents stem from a stronger motive to prioritize self-interest rather than a deficiency in predicting others’ cooperation in social learning”.

      (5) Additionally, a more detailed discussion of the incentives embedded in the Prisoner's Dilemma task would be valuable. In particular, the authors' interpretation of reduced adolescent cooperativeness might be reconsidered in light of the zero-sum nature of the game, which differs from broader conceptualisations of cooperation in contexts where defection is not structurally incentivised.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment and agree that adolescents’ lower cooperation may partly reflect a rational response to the incentive structure of the Prisoner’s Dilemma. However, our behavioral and computational evidence suggests that this pattern cannot be explained solely by strategic responses to payoff structures, but rather reflects a reduced sensitivity to others’ cooperative behavior or weaker social reciprocity motives. We have expanded the Discussion to acknowledge this point and to clarify how both behavioral and modeling results address the reviewer’s concern (see also our response to 2).

      (6) Overall, I believe this work has the potential to make a meaningful contribution to the field. Its impact would be strengthened by more rigorous modelling checks and fitting procedures, as well as by framing the findings in terms of the specific game-theoretic context, rather than general cooperation.

      We thank the reviewer for the professional comments, which have helped us improve our work.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript investigates age-related differences in cooperative behavior by comparing adolescents and adults in a repeated Prisoner's Dilemma Game (rPDG). The authors find that adolescents exhibit lower levels of cooperation than adults. Specifically, adolescents reciprocate partners' cooperation to a lesser degree than adults do. Through computational modeling, they show that this relatively low cooperation rate is not due to impaired expectations or mentalizing deficits, but rather a diminished intrinsic reward for reciprocity. A social reinforcement learning model with asymmetric learning rate best captured these dynamics, revealing age-related differences in how positive and negative outcomes drive behavioral updates. These findings contribute to understanding the developmental trajectory of cooperation and highlight adolescence as a period marked by heightened sensitivity to immediate rewards at the expense of long-term prosocial gains.

      Strengths:

      (1) Rigid model comparison and parameter recovery procedure.

      (2) Conceptually comprehensive model space.

      (3) Well-powered samples.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the strengths of our work.

      Weaknesses:

      A key conceptual distinction between learning from non-human agents (e.g., bandit machines) and human partners is that the latter are typically assumed to possess stable behavioral dispositions or moral traits. When a non-human source abruptly shifts behavior (e.g., from 80% to 20% reward), learners may simply update their expectations. In contrast, a sudden behavioral shift by a previously cooperative human partner can prompt higher-order inferences about the partner's trustworthiness or the integrity of the experimental setup (e.g., whether the partner is truly interactive or human). The authors may consider whether their modeling framework captures such higher-order social inferences. Specifically, trait-based models-such as those explored in Hackel et al. (2015, Nature Neuroscience)-suggest that learners form enduring beliefs about others' moral dispositions, which then modulate trial-bytrial learning. A learner who believes their partner is inherently cooperative may update less in response to a surprising defection, effectively showing a trait-based dampening of learning rate.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. We agree that social learning from human partners may involve higher-order inferences beyond simple reinforcement learning from non-human sources. To address this, we had previously included such mechanisms in our behavioral modeling. In Model 7 (Social Reward Model with Influence), we tested a higher-order belief-updating process in which participants’ expectations about their partner’s cooperation were shaped not only by the partner’s previous choices but also by the inferred influence of their own past actions on the partner’s subsequent behavior. In other words, participants could adjust their belief about the partner’s cooperation by considering how their partner’s belief about them might change. Model comparison showed that Model 7 did not outperform the best-fitting model, suggesting that incorporating higher-order influence updates added limited explanatory value in this context. As suggested by the reviewer, we have further clarified this point in the revised manuscript.

      Regarding trait-based frameworks, we appreciate the reviewer’s reference to Hackel et al. (2015). That study elegantly demonstrated that learners form relatively stable beliefs about others’ social dispositions, such as generosity, especially when the task structure provides explicit cues for trait inference (e.g., resource allocations and giving proportions). By contrast, our study was not designed to isolate trait learning, but rather to capture how participants update their expectations about a partner’s cooperation over repeated interactions. In this sense, cooperativeness in our framework can be viewed as a trait-like latent belief that evolves as evidence accumulates. Thus, while our model does not include a dedicated trait module that directly modulates learning rates, the belief-updating component of our best-fitting model effectively tracks a dynamic, partner-specific cooperativeness, potentially reflecting a prosocial tendency.

      This asymmetry in belief updating has been observed in prior work (e.g., Siegel et al., 2018, Nature Human Behaviour) and could be captured using a dynamic or belief-weighted learning rate. Models incorporating such mechanisms (e.g., dynamic learning rate models as in Jian Li et al., 2011, Nature Neuroscience) could better account for flexible adjustments in response to surprising behavior, particularly in the social domain.

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. Following the comment, we implemented an additional model incorporating a dynamic learning rate based on the magnitude of prediction errors. Specifically, we developed Model 9:  Social reward model with Pearce–Hall learning algorithm (dynamic learning rate), in which participants’ beliefs about their partner’s cooperation probability are updated using a Rescorla–Wagner rule with a learning rate dynamically modulated by the Pearce–Hall (PH) Error Learning mechanism. In this framework, the learning rate increases following surprising outcomes (larger prediction errors) and decreases as expectations become more stable (see Appendix Analysis section for details).

      The results showed that this dynamic learning rate model did not outperform our bestfitting model in either adolescents or adults (see Figure supplement 6). We greatly appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion, which has strengthened the scope of our analysis. We now have added these analyses to the Appendix Analysis section (see Figure Supplement 6) and expanded the Discussion to acknowledge this modeling extension and further discuss its implications.

      Second, the developmental interpretation of the observed effects would be strengthened by considering possible non-linear relationships between age and model parameters. For instance, certain cognitive or affective traits relevant to social learning-such as sensitivity to reciprocity or reward updating-may follow non-monotonic trajectories, peaking in late adolescence or early adulthood. Fitting age as a continuous variable, possibly with quadratic or spline terms, may yield more nuanced developmental insights.

      We thank the reviewer for this professional comment. In addition to the linear analyses, we further conducted exploratory analyses to examine potential non-linear relationships between age and the model parameters. Specifically, we fit LMMs for each of the four parameters as outcomes (α+, α-, β, and ω). The fixed effects included age, a quadratic age term, and gender, and the random effects included subject-specific random intercepts and random slopes for age and gender. Model comparison using BIC did not indicate improvement for the quadratic models over the linear models for α<sup>+</sup> (ΔBIC<sub>quadratic-linear</sub> = 5.09), α− (ΔBICquadratic-linear = 3.04), β (ΔBICquadratic-linear = 3.9), or ω (ΔBICquadratic-linear = 0). Moreover, the quadratic age term was not significant for α<sup>+</sup>, α<sup>−</sup>, or β (all ps > 0.10). For ω, we observed a significant linear age effect (b = 1.41, t = 2.65, p = 0.009) and a significant quadratic age effect (b = −0.03, t = −2.39, p = 0.018; see Author response image 1). This pattern is broadly consistent with the group effect reported in the main text. The shaded area in the figure represents the 95% confidence interval. As shown, the interval widens at older ages (≥ 26 years) due to fewer participants in that range, which limits the robustness of the inferred quadratic effect. In consideration of the limited precision at older ages and the lack of BIC improvement, we did not emphasize the quadratic effect in the revised manuscript and present these results here as exploratory.

      Author response image 1.

      Linear and quadratic model fits showing the relationship between age and the ω parameter, with 95% confidence intervals.<br />

      Finally, the two age groups compared - adolescents (high school students) and adults (university students) - differ not only in age but also in sociocultural and economic backgrounds. High school students are likely more homogenous in regional background (e.g., Beijing locals), while university students may be drawn from a broader geographic and socioeconomic pool. Additionally, differences in financial independence, family structure (e.g., single-child status), and social network complexity may systematically affect cooperative behavior and valuation of rewards. Although these factors are difficult to control fully, the authors should more explicitly address the extent to which their findings reflect biological development versus social and contextual influences.

      We appreciate this comment. Indeed, adolescents (high school students) and adults (university students) differ not only in age but also in sociocultural and socioeconomic backgrounds. In our study, all participants were recruited from Beijing and surrounding regions, which helps minimize large regional and cultural variability. Moreover, we accounted for individual-level random effects and included participants’ social value orientation (SVO) as an individual difference measure. 

      Nonetheless, we acknowledge that other contextual factors, such as differences in financial independence, socioeconomic status, and social experience—may also contribute to group differences in cooperative behavior and reward valuation. Although our results are broadly consistent with developmental theories of reward sensitivity and social decisionmaking, sociocultural influences cannot be entirely ruled out. Future work with more demographically matched samples or with socioeconomic and regional variables explicitly controlled will help clarify the relative contributions of biological and contextual factors. Accordingly, we have revised the Discussion to include the following statement:  “Third, although both age groups were recruited from Beijing and nearby regions, minimizing major regional and cultural variation, adolescents and adults may still differ in socioeconomic status, financial independence, and social experience. Such contextual differences could interact with developmental processes in shaping cooperative behavior and reward valuation. Future research with demographically matched samples or explicit measures of socioeconomic background will help disentangle biological from sociocultural influences.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Wu and colleagues find that in a repeated Prisoner's Dilemma, adolescents, compared to adults, are less likely to increase their cooperation behavior in response to repeated cooperation from a simulated partner. In contrast, after repeated defection by the partner, both age groups show comparable behavior.

      To uncover the mechanisms underlying these patterns, the authors compare eight different models. They report that a social reward learning model, which includes separate learning rates for positive and negative prediction errors, best fits the behavior of both groups. Key parameters in this winning model vary with age: notably, the intrinsic value of cooperating is lower in adolescents. Adults and adolescents also differ in learning rates for positive and negative prediction errors, as well as in the inverse temperature parameter.

      Strengths: 

      The modeling results are compelling in their ability to distinguish between learned expectations and the intrinsic value of cooperation. The authors skillfully compare relevant models to demonstrate which mechanisms drive cooperation behavior in the two age groups.

      We thank the reviewer’s recognition of our work’s strengths.

      Weaknesses:

      Some of the claims made are not fully supported by the data:

      The central parameter reflecting preference for cooperation is positive in both groups. Thus, framing the results as self-interest versus other-interest may be misleading.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. In the social reward model, the cooperation preference parameter is positive by definition, as defection in the repeated rPDG always yields a +2 monetary advantage regardless of the partner’s action. This positive value represents the additional subjective reward assigned to mutual cooperation (e.g., reciprocity value) that counterbalances the monetary gain from defection. Although the estimated social reward parameter ω was positive, the effective advantage of cooperation is Δ=p×ω−2. Given participants’ inferred beliefs p, Δ was negative for most trials (p×ω<2), indicating that the social reward was insufficient to offset the +2 advantage of defection. Thus, both adolescents and adults valued cooperation positively, but adolescents’ smaller ω and weaker responsiveness to sustained partner cooperation suggest a stronger weighting on immediate monetary payoffs. 

      In this light, our framing of adolescents as more self-interested derives from their behavioral pattern: even when they recognized sustained partner cooperation and held high expectations of partner cooperation, adolescents showed lower cooperative behavior and reciprocity rewards compared with adults. Whereas adults increased cooperation after two or three consecutive partner cooperations, this pattern was absent among adolescents. We therefore interpret their behavior as relatively more self-interested, reflecting reduced sensitivity to the social reward from mutual cooperation rather than a categorical shift from self-interest to other-interest, as elaborated in the Discussion.

      It is unclear why the authors assume adolescents and adults have the same expectations about the partner's cooperation, yet simultaneously demonstrate age-related differences in learning about the partner. To support their claim mechanistically, simulations showing that differences in cooperation preference (i.e., the w parameter), rather than differences in learning, drive behavioral differences would be helpful.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In our model, both adolescents and adults updated their beliefs about partner cooperation using an asymmetric reinforcement learning (RL) rule. Although adolescents exhibited a higher positive and a lower negative learning rate than adults, the two groups did not differ significantly in their overall updating of partner cooperation probability (Fig. 4a-b). We then examined the social reward parameter ω, which was significantly smaller in adolescents and determined the intrinsic value of mutual cooperation (i.e., p×ω). This variable differed significantly between groups and closely matched the behavioral pattern.

      Following the reviewer’s suggestion, we conducted additional simulations varying one model parameter at a time while holding the others constant. The difference in mean cooperation probability between adults and adolescents served as the index (positive = higher cooperation in adults). As shown in the Author response image 2, decreases in ω most effectively reproduced the observed group difference (shaded area), indicating that age-related differences in cooperation are primarily driven by variation in the social reward parameter ω rather than by others.

      Author response image 2.

      Simulation results showing how variations in each model parameter affect the group difference in mean cooperation probability (Adults – Adolescents). Based on the best-fitting Model 8 and parameters estimated from all participants, each line represents one parameter (i.e., α+, α-, ω, β) systematically varied within the tested range (α±:0.1–0.9; ω, β:1–9) while other parameters were held constant. Positive values indicate higher cooperation in adults. Smaller ω values most strongly reproduced the observed group difference, suggesting that reduced social reward weighting primarily drives adolescents’ lower cooperation.

      Two different schedules of 120 trials were used: one with stable partner behavior and one with behavior changing after 20 trials. While results for order effects are reported, the results for the stable vs. changing phases within each schedule are not. Since learning is influenced by reward structure, it is important to test whether key findings hold across both phases.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful and professional comment. In our GLMM and LMM analyses, we focused on trial order rather than explicitly including the stable vs. changing phase factor, due to concerns about multicollinearity. In our design, phases occur in specific temporal segments, which introduces strong collinearity with trial order. In multi-round interactions, order effects also capture variance related to phase transitions. 

      Nonetheless, to directly address this concern, we conducted additional robustness analyses by adding a phase variable (stable vs. changing) to GLMM1, LMM1, and LMM3 alongside the original covariates. Across these specifications, the key findings were replicated (see GLMM<sub>sup</sub>2 and LMM<sub>sup</sub>4–5; Tables 9-11), and the direction and significance of main effects remained unchanged, indicating that our conclusions are robust to phase differences.

      The division of participants at the legal threshold of 18 years should be more explicitly justified. The age distribution appears continuous rather than clearly split. Providing rationale and including continuous analyses would clarify how groupings were determined.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. We divided participants at the legal threshold of 18 years for both conceptual and practical reasons grounded in prior literature and policy. In many countries and regions, 18 marks the age of legal majority and is widely used as the boundary between adolescence and adulthood in behavioral and clinical research. Empirically, prior studies indicate that psychosocial maturity and executive functions approach adult levels around this age, with key cognitive capacities stabilizing in late adolescence (Icenogle et al., 2019; Tervo-Clemmens et al., 2023). We have clarified this rationale in the Introduction section of the revised manuscript.

      “Based on legal criteria for majority and prior empirical work, we adopt 18 years as the boundary between adolescence and adulthood (Icenogle et al., 2019; Tervo-Clemmens et al., 2023).”

      We fully agree that the underlying age distribution is continuous rather than sharply divided. To address this, we conducted additional analyses treating age as a continuous predictor (see GLMM<sub>sup</sub>1 and LMM<sub>sup</sub>1–3; Tables S1-S4), which generally replicated the patterns observed with the categorical grouping. Nevertheless, given the limited age range of our sample, the generalizability of these findings to fine-grained developmental differences remains constrained. Therefore, our primary analyses continue to focus on the contrast between adolescents and adults, rather than attempting to model a full developmental trajectory.

      Claims of null effects (e.g., in the abstract: "adults increased their intrinsic reward for reciprocating... a pattern absent in adolescents") should be supported with appropriate statistics, such as Bayesian regression.

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting the importance of rigor when interpreting potential null effects. To address this concern, we conducted Bayes factor analyses of the intrinsic reward for reciprocity and reported the corresponding BF10 for all relevant post hoc comparisons. This approach quantifies the relative evidence for the alternative versus the null hypothesis, thereby providing a more direct assessment of null effects. The analysis procedure is now described in the Methods and Materials section: 

      “Post hoc comparisons were conducted using Bayes factor analyses with MATLAB’s bayesFactor Toolbox (version v3.0, Krekelberg, 2024), with a Cauchy prior scale σ = 0.707.”

      Once claims are more closely aligned with the data, the study will offer a valuable contribution to the field, given its use of relevant models and a well-established paradigm.

      We are grateful for the reviewer’s generous appraisal and insightful comments.

      Recommendations for the authors

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      I commend the authors on a well-structured, clear, and interesting piece of work. I have several questions and recommendations that, if addressed, I believe will strengthen the manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for commending the organization of our paper.

      Introduction: - Why use a zero-sum (Prisoner's Dilemma; PD) versus a mixed-motive game (e.g. Trust Task) to study cooperation? In a finite set of rounds, the dominant strategy can be to defect in a PD.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We agree that both the rationale for using the repeated Prisoner’s Dilemma (rPDG) and the limitations of this framework should be clarified. We chose the rPDG to isolate the core motivational conflict between selfinterest and joint welfare, as its symmetric and simultaneous structure avoids the sequential trust and reputation dependencies/accumulation inherent to asymmetric tasks such as the Trust Game (King-Casas et al., 2005; Rilling et al., 2002).

      Although a finitely repeated rPDG theoretically favors defection, extensive prior research shows that cooperation can still emerge in long repeated interactions when players rely on learning and reciprocity rather than backward induction (Rilling et al., 2002; Fareri et al., 2015). Our design employed 120 consecutive rounds, allowing participants to update expectations about partner behavior and to establish stable reciprocity patterns over time. We have added the following clarification to the Introduction:

      “The rPDG provides a symmetric and simultaneous framework that isolates the motivational conflict between self-interest and joint welfare, avoiding the sequential trust and reputation dynamics characteristic of asymmetric tasks such as the Trust Game (Rilling et al., 2002; King-Casas et al., 2005)”

      Methods:

      Did the participants know how long the PD would go on for?

      Were the participants informed that the partner was real/simulated?

      Were the participants informed that the partner was going to be the same for all rounds?

      We thank the reviewer for the meticulous review work, which helped us present the experimental design and reporting details more clearly. the following clarifications: I. Participants were not informed of the total number of rounds in the rPDG. This prevented endgame expectations and avoided distraction from counting rounds, which could introduce additional effects. II. Participants were told that their partner was another human participant in the laboratory. However, the partner’s behavior was predetermined by a computer program. This design enabled tighter experimental control and ensured consistent conditions across age groups, supporting valid comparisons. III. Participants were informed that they would interact with the same partner across all rounds, aligning with the essence of a multiround interaction paradigm and stabilizing partner-related expectations. For transparency, we have clarified these points in the Methods and Materials section:

      “Participants were told that their partner was another human participant in the laboratory and that they would interact with the same partner across all rounds. However, in reality, the actions of the partner were predetermined by a computer program. This setup allowed for a clear comparison of the behavioral responses between adolescents and adults. Participants were not informed of the total number of rounds in the rPDG.”

      The authors mention that an SVO was also recorded to indicate participant prosociality. Where are the results of this? Did this track game play at all? Could cooperativeness be explained broadly as an SVO preference that penetrated into game-play behaviour?

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We agree that individual differences in prosociality may shape cooperative behavior, so we conducted additional analyses incorporating SVO. Specifically, we extended GLMM1 and LMM3 by adding the measured SVO as a fixed effect with random slopes, yielding GLMM<sub>sup</sub>3 and LMM<sub>sup</sub>6 (Tables 12–13). The results showed that higher SVO was associated with greater cooperation, whereas its effect on the reward for reciprocity was not significant. Importantly, the primary findings remained unchanged after controlling for SVO. These results indicate that cooperativeness in our task cannot be explained solely by a broad SVO preference, although a more prosocial orientation was associated with greater cooperation. We have reported these analyses and results in the Appendix Analysis section.

      Why was AIC chosen rather an BIC to compare model dominance?

      Sorry for the lack of clarification. Both the Akaike Information Criterion (AIC, Akaike, 1974) and Bayesian Information Criterion (BIC, Schwarz, 1978) are informationtheoretic criterions for model comparison, neither of which depends on whether the models to be compared are nested to each other or not (Burnham et al., 2002). We have added the following clarification into the Methods.

      “We chose to use the AICc as the metric of goodness-of-fit for model comparison for the following statistical reasons. First, BIC is derived based on the assumption that the “true model” must be one of the models in the limited model set one compares (Burnham et al., 2002; Gelman & Shalizi, 2013), which is unrealistic in our case. In contrast, AIC does not rely on this unrealistic “true model” assumption and instead selects out the model that has the highest predictive power in the model set (Gelman et al., 2014). Second, AIC is also more robust than BIC for finite sample size (Vrieze, 2012).”

      I believe the model fitting procedure might benefit from hierarchical estimation, rather than maximum likelihood methods. Adolescents in particular seem to show multiple outliers in a^+ and w^+ at the lower end of the distributions in Figure S2. There are several packages to allow hierarchical estimation and model comparison in MATLAB (which I believe is the language used for this analysis; see https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1007043).

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment and for referring us to relevant methodological work (Piray et al., 2019). We have addressed this point by incorporating hierarchical Bayesian estimation, which effectively mitigates outlier effects and improves model identifiability. The results replicated those obtained with MLE fitting and further revealed group-level differences in key parameters. Please see our detailed response to Reviewer#1 Q1 for the full description of this analysis and results.

      Results: Model confusion seems to show that the inequality aversion and social reward models were consistently confused with the baseline model. Is this explained or investigated? I could not find an explanation for this.

      The apparent overlap between the inequality aversion (Model 4) and social reward (Model 5) models in the recovery analysis likely arises because neither model includes a learning mechanism, making them unable to capture trial-by-trial adjustments in this dynamic task. Consequently, both were best fit by the baseline model. Please see Response to Reviewer #1 Q3 for related discussion.

      Figures 3e and 3f show the correlation between asymmetric learning rates and age. It seems that both a^+ and a^- are around 0.35-0.40 for young adolescents, and this becomes more polarised with age. Could it be that with age comes an increasing discernment of positive and negative outcomes on beliefs, and younger ages compress both positive and negative values together? Given the higher stochasticity in younger ages (\beta), it may also be that these values simply represent higher uncertainty over how to act in any given situation within a social context (assuming the differences in groups are true).

      We appreciate this insightful interpretation. Indeed, both α+ and α- cluster around 0.35–0.40 in younger adolescents and become increasingly polarized with age, suggesting that sensitivity to positive versus negative feedback is less differentiated early in development and becomes more distinct over time. This interpretation remains tentative and warrants further validation. Based on this comment, we have revised the Discussion to include this developmental interpretation.

      We also clarify that in our model β denotes the inverse temperature parameter; higher β reflects greater choice precision and value sensitivity, not higher stochasticity. Accordingly, adolescents showed higher β values, indicating more value-based and less exploratory choices, whereas adults displayed relatively greater exploratory cooperation. These group differences were also replicated using hierarchical Bayesian estimation (see Response to Reviewer #1 Q1). In response to this comment, we have added a statement in the Discussion highlighting this developmental interpretation.

      “Together, these findings suggest that the differentiation between positive and negative learning rates changes with age, reflecting more selective feedback sensitivity in development, while higher β values in adolescents indicate greater value sensitivity. This interpretation remains tentative and requires further validation in future research.”

      A parameter partial correlation matrix (off-diagonal) would be helpful to understand the relationship between parameters in both adolescents and adults separately. This may provide a good overview of how the model properties may change with age (e.g. a^+'s relation to \beta).

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. We fully agree that a parameter partial correlation matrix can further elucidate the relationships among parameters. Accordingly, we conducted a partial correlation analysis and added the visually presented results to the revised manuscript as Figure 2-figure supplement 4.

      It would be helpful to have Bayes Factors reported with each statistical tests given that several p-values fall within the 0.01 and 0.10.

      We thank the reviewer for this important recommendation. We have conducted Bayes factor analyses and reported BF10 for all relevant post hoc comparisons. We also clarified our analysis in the Methods and Materials section: 

      “Post hoc comparisons were conducted using Bayes factor analyses with MATLAB’s bayesFactor Toolbox (version v3.0, Krekelberg, 2024), with a Cauchy prior scale σ = 0.707.”

      Discussion: I believe the language around ruling out failures in mentalising needs to be toned down. RL models do not enable formal representational differences required to assess mentalising, but they can distinguish biases in value learning, which in itself is interesting. If the authors were to show that more complex 'ToM-like' Bayesian models were beaten by RL models across the board, and this did not differ across adults and adolescents, there would be a stronger case to make this claim. I think the authors either need to include Bayesian models in their comparison, or tone down their language on this point, and/or suggest ways in which this point might be more thoroughly investigated (e.g., using structured models on the same task and running comparisons: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0087619).

      We thank the reviewer for the comments. Please see our response to Reviewer 1 (Appraisal & Discussion section) for details.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      The authors may want to show the winning model earlier (perhaps near the beginning of the Results section, when model parameters are first mentioned).

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that highlighting the winning model early improves clarity. Currently, we have mentioned the winning model before the beginning of the Results section. Specifically, in the penultimate paragraph of the Introduction we state:

      “We identified the asymmetric RL learning model as the winning model that best explained the cooperative decisions of both adolescents and adults.”

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In addition to the points mentioned above, I suggest the following:

      (1) Clarify plots by clearly explaining each variable. In particular, the indices 1 vs. 1,2 vs. 1,2,3 were not immediately understandable.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We agree that the indices were not immediately clear. We have revised the figure captions (Figure 1 and 4) to explicitly define these terms more clearly: 

      “The x-axis represents the consistency of the partner’s actions in previous trials (t<sub>−1</sub>: last trial; t<sub>−1,2</sub>: last two trials; t<sub>−1,2,3</sub>: last three trials).”

      It's unclear why the index stops at 3. If this isn't the maximum possible number of consecutive cooperation trials, please consider including all relevant data, as adolescents might show a trend similar to adults over more trials.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. In our exploratory analyses, we also examined longer streaks of consecutive partner cooperation or defection (up to four or five trials). Two empirical considerations led us to set the cutoff at three in the final analyses. First, the influence of partner behavior diminished sharply with temporal distance. In both GLMMs and LMMs, coefficients for earlier partner choices were small and unstable, and their inclusion substantially increased model complexity and multicollinearity. This recency pattern is consistent with learning and decision models emphasizing stronger weighting of recent evidence (Fudenberg & Levine, 2014; Fudenberg & Peysakhovich, 2016). Second, streaks longer than three were rare, especially among some participants, leading to data sparsity and inflated uncertainty. Including these sparse conditions risked biasing group estimates rather than clarifying them. Balancing informativeness and stability, we therefore restricted the index to three consecutive partner choices in the main analyses, which we believe sufficiently capture individuals’ general tendencies in reciprocal cooperation.

      The term "reciprocity" may not be necessary. Since it appears to reflect a general preference for cooperation, it may be clearer to refer to the specific behavior or parameter being measured. This would also avoid confusion, especially since adolescents do show negative reciprocity in response to repeated defection.

      We thank you for this comment. In our work, we compute the intrinsic reward for reciprocity as p × ω, where p is the partner cooperation expectation and ω is the cooperation preference. In the rPDG, this value framework manifests as a reciprocity-derived reward: sustained mutual cooperation maximizes joint benefits, and the resulting choice pattern reflects a value for reciprocity, contingent on the expected cooperation of the partner. This quantity enters the trade-off between U<sub>cooperation</sub> and U<sub>defection</sub>and captures the participant’s intrinsic reward for reciprocity versus the additional monetary reward payoff of defection. Therefore, we consider the term “reciprocity” an acceptable statement for this construct.

      Interpretation of parameters should closely reflect what they specifically measure.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We have refined the relevant interpretations of parameters in the current Results and Discussion sections.

      Prior research has shown links between Theory of Mind (ToM) and cooperation (e.g., Martínez-Velázquez et al., 2024). It would be valuable to test whether this also holds in your dataset.

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. Although we did not directly measure participants’ ToM, our design allowed us to estimate participants’ trial-by-trial inferences (i.e., expectations) about their partner’s cooperation probability. We therefore treat these cooperation expectations as an indirect representation for belief inference, which is related to ToM processes. To test whether this belief-inference component relates to cooperation in our dataset, we further conducted an exploratory analysis (GLMM<sub>sup</sub>4) in which participants’ choices were regressed on their cooperation expectations, group, and the group × cooperation-expectation interaction, controlling for trial number and gender, with random effects. Consistent with the ToM–cooperation link in prior research (MartínezVelázquez et al., 2024), participants’ expectations about their partner’s cooperation significantly predicted their cooperative behavior (Table 14), suggesting that decisions were shaped by social learning about others’ inferred actions. Moreover, the interaction between group and cooperation expectation was not significant, indicating that this inference-driven social learning process likely operates similarly in adolescents and adults. This aligns with our primary modeling results showing that both age groups update beliefs via an asymmetric learning process. We have reported these analyses in the Appendix Analysis section.

      More informative table captions would help the reader. Please clarify how variables are coded (e.g., is female = 0 or 1? Is adolescent = 0 or 1?), to avoid the need to search across the manuscript for this information.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. We have added clear and standardized variable coding in the table notes of all tables to make them more informative and avoid the need to search the paper. We have ensured consistent wording and formatting across all tables.

      I hope these comments are helpful and support the authors in further strengthening their manuscript.

      We thank the three reviewers for their comments, which have been helpful in strengthening this work.

      Reference

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    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary: 

      Zhang and colleagues examine neural representations underlying abstract navigation in the entorhinal cortex (EC) and hippocampus (HC) using fMRI. This paper replicates a previously identified hexagonal modulation of abstract navigation vectors in abstract space in EC in a novel task involving navigating in a conceptual Greeble space. In HC, the authors claim to identify a three-fold signal of the navigation angle. They also use a novel analysis technique (spectral analysis) to look at spatial patterns in these two areas and identify phase coupling between HC and EC. Finally, the authors propose an EC-HPC PhaseSync Model to understand how the EC and HC construct cognitive maps. While the wide array of techniques used is impressive and their creativity in analysis is admirable, overall, I found the paper a bit confusing and unconvincing. I recommend a significant rewrite of their paper to motivate their methods and clarify what they actually did and why. The claim of three-fold modulation in HC, while potentially highly interesting to the community, needs more background to motivate why they did the analysis in the first place, more interpretation as to why this would emerge in biology, and more care taken to consider alternative hypotheses seeped in existing models of HC function. I think this paper does have potential to be interesting and impactful, but I would like to see these issues improved first.

      General comments:

      (1) Some of the terminology used does not match the terminology used in previous relevant literature (e.g., sinusoidal analysis, 1D directional domain).

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion, which helps to improve the consistency of our terminology with previous literature and to reduce potential ambiguity. Accordingly, we have replaced “sinusoidal analysis” with “sinusoidal modulation” (Doeller et al., 2010; Bao et al., 2019; Raithel et al., 2023) and “1D directional domain” with “angular domain of path directions” throughout the manuscript.

      (2) Throughout the paper, novel methods and ideas are introduced without adequate explanation (e.g., the spectral analysis and three-fold periodicity of HC).

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In the revised manuscript, we have substantially extended the Introduction (paragraphs 2–4) to clarify our hypothesis, explicitly explaining why the three primary axes of the hexagonal grid cell code may manifest as vector fields. We have also revised the first paragraph of the “3-fold periodicity in the HPC” section in the Results to clarify the rationale for using spectral analysis. Please refer to our responses to comment 2 and 3 below for details.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors report results from behavioral data, fMRI recordings, and computer simulations during a conceptual navigation task. They report 3-fold symmetry in behavioral and simulated model performance, 3-fold symmetry in hippocampal activity, and 6-fold symmetry in entorhinal activity (all as a function of movement directions in conceptual space). The analyses are thoroughly done, and the results and simulations are very interesting.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the positive and encouraging comments on our study.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) This paper has quite a few spelling and grammatical mistakes, making it difficult to understand at times.

      We apologize for the wordings and grammatical errors. We have thoroughly re-read and carefully edited the entire manuscript to correct typographical and grammatical errors, ensuring improved clarity and readability.

      (2) Introduction - It's not clear why the three primary axes of hexagonal grid cell code would manifest as vector fields.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In the revised Introduction (paragraphs 2, 3, and 4), we now explicitly explain the rationale behind our hypothesis that the three primary axes of the hexagonal grid cell code manifest as vector fields.

      In paragraph 2, we present empirical evidence from rodent, bat, and human studies demonstrating that mental simulation of prospective paths relies on vectorial representations in the hippocampus (Sarel et al., 2017; Ormond and O’Keefe, 2022; Muhle-Karbe et al., 2023).

      In paragraphs 3 and 4, we introduce our central hypothesis: vectorial representations may originate from population-level projections of entorhinal grid cell activity, based on three key considerations:

      (1) The EC serves as the major source of hippocampal input (Witter and Amaral, 1991; van Groen et al., 2003; Garcia and Buffalo, 2020).

      (2) Grid codes exhibit nearly invariant spatial orientations (Hafting et al., 2005; Gardner et al., 2022), which makes it plausible that their spatially periodic activity can be detected using fMRI.

      (3) A model-based inference: for example, in the simplest case, when one mentally simulates a straight pathway aligned with the grid orientation, a subpopulation of grid cells would be activated. The resulting population activity would form a near-perfect vectorial representation, with constant activation strength along the path. In contrast, if the simulated path is misaligned with the grid orientation, the population response becomes a distorted vectorial code. Consequently, simulating all possible straight paths spanning 0°–360° results in 3-fold periodicity in the activity patterns—due to the 180° rotational symmetry of the hexagonal grid, orientations separated by 180° are indistinguishable.

      We therefore speculate that vectorial representations embedded in grid cell activity exhibit 3-fold periodicity across spatial orientations and serve as a periodic structure to represent spatial direction. Supporting this view, reorientation paradigms in both rodents and young children have shown that subjects search equally in two opposite directions, reflecting successful orientation encoding but a failure to integrate absolute spatial direction (Hermer and Spelke, 1994; Julian et al., 2015; Gallistel, 2017; Julian et al., 2018).

      (3) It took me a few reads to understand what the spectral analysis was. After understanding, I do think this is quite clever. However, this paper needs more motivation to understand why you are performing this analysis. E.g., why not just take the average regressor at the 10º, 70º, etc. bins and compare it to the average regressor at 40º, 100º bins? What does the Fourier transform buy you?

      We are sorry for the confusion. we outline the rationale for employing Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) analysis to identify neural periodicity. In the revised manuscript, we have added these clarifications into the first paragraph of the “3-fold periodicity in the HPC” subsection in the Results.

      First, FFT serves as an independent approach to cross-validate the sinusoidal modulation results, providing complementary evidence for the 6-fold periodicity in EC and the 3-fold periodicity in HPC.

      Second, FFT enables unbiased detection of multiple candidate periodicities (e.g., 3–7-fold) simultaneously without requiring prior assumptions about spatial phase (orientation). By contrast, directly comparing “aligned” versus “misaligned” angular bins (e.g., 10°/70° vs. 40°/100°) would implicitly assume knowledge of the phase offset, which was not known a priori.

      Finally, FFT uniquely allows periodicity analysis of behavioral performance, which is not feasible with standard sinusoidal GLM approaches. This methodological consistency makes it possible to directly compare periodicities across neural and behavioral domains.

      (4) A more minor point: at one point, you say it’s a spectral analysis of the BOLD signals, but the methods description makes it sound like you estimated regressors at each of the bins before performing FFT. Please clarify. 

      We apologize for the confusion. In our manuscript, we use the term spectral analysis to distinguish this approach from sinusoidal modulation analysis. Conceptually, our spectral analysis involves a three-level procedure:

      (1) First level: We estimated direction-dependent activity maps using a general linear model (GLM), which included 36 regressors corresponding to path directions, down-sampled in 10° increments.

      (2) Second level: We applied a Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) to the direction-dependent activity maps derived from the GLM to examine the spectral magnitude of potential spatial periodicities.

      (3) Third level: We conducted group-level statistical analyses across participants to assess the consistency of the observed periodicities.

      We have revised the “Spectral analysis of MRI BOLD signals” subsection in the Methods to clarify this multi-level procedure.

      (5) Figure 4a:

      Why do the phases go all the way to 2*pi if periodicity is either three-fold or six-fold? 

      When performing correlation between phases, you should perform a circular-circular correlation instead of a Pearson's correlation.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In the original Figure 4a, both EC and HPC phases spanned 0–2π because their sinusoidal phase estimates were projected into a common angular space by scaling them according to their symmetry factors (i.e., multiplying the 3-fold phase by 3 and the 6-fold phase by 6), followed by taking the modulo 2π. However, this projection forced signals with distinct intrinsic periodicities (120° vs. 60° cycles) into a shared 360° space, thereby distorting their relative angular distances and disrupting the one-to-one correspondence between physical directions and phase values. Consequently, this transformation could bias the estimation of their phase relationship.

      In the revised analysis and Figure 4a, we retained the original phase estimates derived from the sinusoidal modulation within their native periodic ranges (0–120° for 3-fold and 0–60° for 6-fold) by applying modulo operations directly. Following your suggestion, the relationship between EC and HPC phases was then quantified using circular–circular correlation (Jammalamadaka & Sengupta, 2001), as implemented in the CircStat MATLAB toolbox. This updated analysis avoids the rescaling artifact and provides a statistically stronger and conceptually clearer characterization of the phase correspondence between EC and HPC.

      (6) Figure 4d needs additional clarification:

      Phase-locking is typically used to describe data with a high temporal precision. I understand you adopted an EEG analysis technique to this reconstructed fMRI time-series data, but it should be described differently to avoid confusion. This needs additional control analyses (especially given that 3 is a multiple of 6) to confirm that this result is specific to the periodicities found in the paper.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. We have extensively revised the description of the Figure 4 to avoid confusion with EEG-based phase-locking techniques. The revised text now explicitly clarifies that our approach quantifies spatial-domain periodic coupling across path directions, rather than temporal synchronization of neural signals.

      To further address the reviewer’s concern about potential effects of the integer multiple relationship between the 3-fold HPC and 6-fold EC periodicities, we additionally performed two control analyses using the 9-fold and 12-fold EC components, both of which are also integer multiples of the 3-fold HPC periodicity. Neither control analysis showed significant coupling (p > 0.05), confirming that the observed 3-fold–6-fold coupling was specific and not driven by their harmonic relationship.

      The description of the revised Figure 4 has been updated in the “Phase Synchronization Between HPC and EC Activity” subsection of the Results.

      (7) Figure 5a is misleading. In the text, you say you test for propagation to egocentric cortical areas, but I don’t see any analyses done that test this. This feels more like a possible extension/future direction of your work that may be better placed in the discussion.

      We are sorry for the confusion. Figure 5a was intended as a hypothesis-driven illustration to motivate our analysis of behavioral periodicity based on participants’ task performance. However, we agree with the reviewer that, on its own, Figure 5a could be misleading, as it does not directly present supporting analyses.

      To provide empirical support for the interpretation depicted in Figure 5a, we conducted a whole-brain analysis (Figure S8), which revealed significant 3-fold periodic signals in egocentric cortical regions, including the parietal cortex (PC), precuneus (PCU), and motor regions.

      To avoid potential misinterpretation, we have revised the main text to include these results and explicitly referenced Figure S8 in connection with Figure 5a.

      The updated description in the “3-fold periodicity in human behavior” subsection in the Results is as follows:

      “Considering the reciprocal connectivity between the medial temporal lobe (MTL), where the EC and HPC reside, and the parietal cortex implicated in visuospatial perception and action, together with the observed 3-fold periodicity within the DMN (including the PC and PCu; Fig. S8), we hypothesized that the 3-fold periodic representations of path directions extend beyond the MTL to the egocentric cortical areas, such as the PC, thereby influencing participants' visuospatial task performance (Fig. 5a)”.

      Additionally, Figure 5a has been modified to more clearly highlight the hypothesized link between activity periodicity and behavioral periodicity, rather than suggesting a direct anatomical pathway.

      (8) PhaseSync model: I am not an expert in this type of modeling, so please put a lower weight on this comment (especially compared to some of the other reviewers). While the PhaseSync model seems interesting, it’s not clear from the discussion how this compares to current models. E.g., Does it support them by adding the three-fold HC periodicity? Does it demonstrate that some of them can't be correct because they don't include this three-fold periodicity?

      We thank the reviewer for the insightful comment regarding the PhaseSync model. We agree that further clarifying its relationship to existing computational frameworks is important.

      The EC–HPC PhaseSync model is not intended to replace or contradict existing grid–place cell models of navigation (e.g., Bicanski and Burgess, 2019; Whittington et al., 2020; Edvardsen et al., 2020). Instead, it offers a hierarchical extension by proposing that vectorial representations in the hippocampus emerge from the projections of periodic grid codes in the entorhinal cortex. Specifically, the model suggests that grid cell populations encode integrated path information, forming a vectorial gradient toward goal locations.

      To simplify the theoretical account, our model was implemented in an idealized square layout. In more complex real-world environments, hippocampal 3-fold periodicity may interact with additional spatial variables, such as distance, movement speed, and environmental boundaries.

      We have revised the final two paragraphs of the Discussion to clarify this conceptual framework and emphasize the importance of future studies in exploring how periodic activity in the EC–HPC circuit interacts with environmental features to support navigation.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Please show a histogram of movement direction sampling for each participant.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful suggestion. We have added a new supplementary figure (Figure S2) showing histograms of path direction sampling for each participant (36 bins of 10°). The figure is also included. Rayleigh tests for circular uniformity revealed no significant deviations from uniformity (all ps > 0.05, Bonferroni-corrected across participants), confirming that path directions were sampled evenly across 0°–360°.

      (2) Why didn’t you use participants’ original trajectories (instead of the trajectories inferred from the movement start and end points) for the hexadirectional analyses? 

      In our paradigm, participants used two MRI-compatible 2-button response boxes (one for each hand) to adjust the two features of the greebles. As a result, the raw adjustment path contained only four cardinal directions (up, down, left, right). If we were to use the raw stepwise trajectories, the analysis would be restricted to these four directions, which would severely limit the angular resolution. By instead defining direction as the vector from the start to the end position in feature space, we can expand the effective range of directions to the full 0–360°. This approach follows previous literature on abstract grid-like coding in humans (e.g., Constantinescu et al., 2016), where direction was similarly defined by the relative change between two feature dimensions rather than the literal stepwise path. We have added this clarification in the “Sinusoidal modulation” subsection of the revised method.

      (3) Legend of Figure 2: the statement "localizing grid cell activity" seems too strong because it is still not clear whether hexadirectional signals indeed result from grid-cell activity (e.g., Bin Khalid et al., eLife, 2024). I would suggest rephrasing this statement (here and elsewhere). 

      Thank you for this helpful suggestion. We have removed the statement “localizing grid cell activity” to avoid ambiguity and revised the legend of Figure 2a to more explicitly highlight its main purpose—defining how path directions and the aligned/misaligned conditions were constructed in the 6-fold modulation. We have also modified similar expressions throughout the manuscript to ensure consistency and clarity.

      (4) Legend of Figure 2: “cluster-based SVC correction for multiple comparisons” - what is the small volume you are using for the correction? Bilateral EC?

      For both Figure 2 and Figure 3, the anatomical mask of the bilateral medial temporal lobe (MTL), as defined by the AAL atlas, was used as the small volume for correction. This has been clarified in the revised Statistical Analysis section of the Methods as “… with small-volume correction (SVC) applied within the bilateral MTL”.

      (5) Legend of Figure 2: "ROI-based analysis" - what kind of ROI are you using? "corrected for multiple comparisons" - which comparisons are you referring to? Different symmetries and also the right/left hemisphere?

      In Figure 2b, the ROI was defined as a functional mask derived from the significant activation cluster in the right entorhinal cortex (EC). Since no robust clusters were observed in the left EC, the functional ROI was restricted to the right hemisphere. We indeed included Figure 2c to illustrate this point; however, we recognize that our description in the text was not sufficiently clear.

      Regarding the correction for multiple comparisons, this refers specifically to the comparisons across different rotational symmetries (3-, 4-, 5-, 6-, and 7-fold). Only the 6-fold symmetry survived correction, whereas no significant effects were detected for the other symmetries.

      We have clarified these points in the “6-fold periodicity in the EC” subsection of the result as “… The ROI was defined as a functional mask of the right EC identified in the voxel-based analysis and further restricted within the anatomical EC. These analyses revealed significant periodic modulation only at 6-fold (Figure  2c; t(32) = 3.56, p = 0.006, two-tailed, corrected for multiple comparisons across rotational symmetries; Cohen’s d = 0.62) …”.

      We have also revised the “3-fold periodicity in the HPC” subsection of the result as “… ROI analysis, using a functional mask of the HPC identified in the spectral analysis and further restricted within the anatomical HPC, indicated that HPC activity selectively fluctuated at 3-fold periodicity (Figure 3e; t(32) = 3.94, p = 0.002, corrected for multiple comparisons across rotational symmetries; Cohen’s d = 0.70) …”.

      (6) Figure 2d: Did you rotationally align 0{degree sign} across participants? Please state explicitly whether (or not) 0{degree sign} aligns with the x-axis in Greeble space.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful question. Yes, before reconstructing the directional tuning curve in Figure 2d, path directions were rotationally aligned for each participant by subtracting the participant-specific grid orientation (ϕ) estimated from the independent dataset (odd sessions). We have now made this description explicit in the revised manuscript in the “6-fold periodicity in the EC” subsection of the Results, stating “… To account for individual difference in spatial phase, path directions were calibrated by subtracting the participant-specific grid orientation estimated from the odd sessions ...”.

      (7) Clustering of grid orientations in 30 participants: What does “Bonferroni corrected” refer to? Also, the Rayleigh test is sensitive to the number of voxels - do you obtain the same results when using pair-wise phase consistency? 

      “Bonferroni corrected” here refers to correction across participants. We have clarified this in the first paragraph of the “6-fold periodicity in the EC” subsection of the Result and in the legend of Supplementary Figure S5 as “Bonferroni-corrected across participants.”

      To examine whether our findings were sensitive to the number of voxels, we followed the reviewer’s guidance to compute pairwise phase consistency (PPC; Vinck et al., 2010) for each participant. The PPC results replicated those obtained with the Rayleigh test. We have updated the new results into the Supplementary Figure S5. We also updated the “Statistical Analysis” subsection of the Methods to describe PPC as “For the PPC (Vinck et al., 2010), significance was tested using 5,000 permutations of uniformly distributed random phases (0–2π) to generate a null distribution for comparison with the observed PPC”.

      (8) 6-fold periodicity in the EC: Do you compute an average grid orientation across all EC voxels, or do you compute voxel-specific grid orientations?

      Following the protocol originally described by Doeller et al. (2010), we estimated voxel-wise grid orientations within the EC and then obtained a participant-specific orientation by averaging across voxels within a hand-drawn bilateral EC mask. The procedure is described in detail in the “Sinusoidal modulation” subsection of the Methods.

      (9) Hand-drawn bilateral EC mask: What was your procedure for drawing this mask? What results do you get with a standard mask, for example, from Freesurfer or SPM? Why do you perform this analysis bilaterally, given that the earlier analysis identified 6-fold symmetry only in the right EC? What do you mean by "permutation corrected for multiple comparisons"?

      We thank the reviewer for raising these important methodological points. To our knowledge, no standard volumetric atlas provides an anatomically defined entorhinal cortex (EC) mask. For example, the built-in Harvard–Oxford cortical structural atlas in FSL contains only a parahippocampal region that encompasses, but does not isolate, the EC. The AAL atlas likewise does not contain an EC region. In FreeSurfer, an EC label is available, but only in the fsaverage surface space, which is not directly compatible with MNI-based volumetric group-level analyses.

      Therefore, we constructed a bilateral EC mask by manually delineating the EC according to the detailed anatomical landmarks described by Insausti et al. (1998). Masks were created using ITK-SNAP (Version 3.8, www.itksnap.org). For transparency and reproducibility, the mask has been made publicly available at the Science Data Bank (link: https://www.scidb.cn/s/NBriAn), as indicated in the revised Data and Code availability section.

      Regarding the use of a bilateral EC mask despite voxel-wise effects being strongest in the right EC. First, we did not have any a priori hypothesis regarding laterality of EC involvement before performing analyses. Second, previous studies estimated grid orientation using a bilateral EC mask in their sinusoidal analyses (Doeller et al., 2010; Constantinescu et al., 2016; Bao et al., 2019; Wagner et al., 2023; Raithel et al., 2023). We therefore followed this established approach to estimate grid orientation.

      By “permutation corrected for multiple comparisons” we refer to the family-wise error correction applied to the reconstructed directional tuning curves (Figure 2d for the EC, Figure 3f for the HPC). Specifically, directional labels were randomly shuffled 5,000 times, and an FFT was applied to each shuffled dataset to compute spectral power at each fold. This procedure generated null distributions of spectral power for each symmetry. For each fold, the 95th percentile of the maximal power across permutations was used as the uncorrected threshold. To correct across folds, the 95th percentile of the maximal suprathreshold power across all symmetries was taken as the family-wise error–corrected threshold. We have clarified this procedure in the revised “Statistical Analysis” subsection of the Methods.

      (10) Figures 3b and 3d: Why do different hippocampal voxels show significance for the sinusoidal versus spectral analysis? Shouldn’t the analyses be redundant and, thus, identify the same significant voxels? 

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful question. Although both sinusoidal modulation and spectral analysis aim to detect periodic neural activity, the two approaches are methodologically distinct and are therefore not expected to identify exactly the same significant voxels.

      Sinusoidal modulation relies on a GLM with sine and cosine regressors to test for phase-aligned periodicity (e.g., 3-fold or 6-fold), calibrated according to the estimated grid orientation. This approach is highly specific but critically depends on accurate orientation estimation. In contrast, spectral analysis applies Fourier decomposition to the directional tuning profile, enabling the detection of periodic components without requiring orientation calibration.

      Accordingly, the two analyses are not redundant but complementary. The FFT approach allows for an unbiased exploration of multiple candidate periodicities (e.g., 3–7-fold) without predefined assumptions, thereby providing a critical cross-validation of the sinusoidal GLM results. This strengthens the evidence for 6-fold periodicity in EC and 3-fold periodicity in HPC. Furthermore, FFT uniquely facilitates the analysis of periodicities in behavioral performance data, which is not feasible with standard sinusoidal GLM approaches. This methodological consistency enables direct comparison of periodicities across neural and behavioral domains.

      Additionally, the anatomical distributions of the HPC clusters appear more similar between Figure 3b and Figure 3d after re-plotting Figure 3d using the peak voxel coordinates (x = –24, y = –18), which are closer to those used for Figure 3b (x = –24, y = –20), as shown in the revised Figure 3.

      Taken together, the two analyses serve distinct but complementary purposes.

      (11) 3-fold sinusoidal analysis in hippocampus: What kind of small volume are you using to correct for multiple comparisons?

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. The same small volume correction procedure was applied as described in R4. Specifically, the anatomical mask of the bilateral medial temporal lobe (MTL), as defined by the AAL atlas, was used as the small volume for correction. This procedure has been clarified in the revised Statistical Analysis section of the Methods as following: “… with small-volume correction (SVC) applied within the bilateral MTL.”

      (12) Figure S5: “right HPC” – isn’t the cluster in the left hippocampus? 

      We are sorry for the confusion. The brain image was present in radiological orientation (i.e., the left and right orientations are flipped). We also checked the figure and confirmed that the cluster shown in the original Figure S5 (i.e., Figure S6 in the revised manuscript) is correctly labeled as the right hippocampus, as indicated by the MNI coordinate (x = 22), where positive x values denote the right hemisphere. To avoid potential confusion, we have explicitly added the statement “Volumetric results are displayed in radiological orientation” to the figure legends of all volume-based results.

      (13) Figure S5: Why are the significant voxels different from the 3-fold symmetry analysis using 10{degree sign} bins?

      As shown in R10, the apparent differences largely reflect variation in MNI coordinates. After adjusting for display coordinates, the anatomical locations of the significant clusters are in fact highly similar between the 10°-binned (Figure 3d, shown above) and the 20°-binned results (Figure S6).

      Although both analyses rely on sinusoidal modulation, they differ in the resolution of the input angular bins (10° vs. 20°). Combined with the inherent noise in fMRI data, this makes it unlikely that the two approaches would yield exactly the same set of significant voxels. Importantly, both analyses consistently reveal robust 3-fold periodicity in the hippocampus, indicating that the observed effect is not dependent on angular bin size.

      (14) Figure 4a and corresponding text: What is the unit? Phase at which frequency? Are you using a circular-circular correlation to test for the relationship?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important point. In the revised manuscript, we have clarified that the unit of the phase values is radians, corresponding to the 6-fold periodic component in the EC and the 3-fold periodic component in the HPC. In the original Figure 4a, both EC and HPC phases—estimated from sinusoidal modulation—were analyzed using Pearson correlation. We have since realized issues with this approach, as also noted R5 to Reviewer #1.

      In the revised analysis and Figure 4a (as shown above), we re-evaluated the relationship between EC and HPC phases using a circular–circular correlation (Jammalamadaka & Sengupta, 2001), implemented in the CircStat MATLAB toolbox. The “Phase synchronization between the HPC and EC activity” subsection of the Result has been accordingly updated as following:

      “To examine whether the spatial phase structure in one region could predict that in another, we tested whether the orientations of the 6-fold EC and 3-fold HPC periodic activities, estimated from odd-numbered sessions using sinusoidal modulation with rotationally symmetric parameters (in radians), were correlated across participants. A cross-participant circular–circular correlation was conducted between the spatial phases of the two areas to quantify the spatial correspondence of their activity patterns (EC: purple dots; HPC: green dots) (Jammalamadaka & Sengupta, 2001). The analysis revealed a significant circular correlation (Figure 4a; r = 0.42, p < 0.001) …”.

      In the “Statistical analysis” subsection of the method:

      “… The relationship between EC and HPC phases was evaluated using the circular–circular correlation (Jammalamadaka & Sengupta, 2001) implemented in the CircStat MATLAB toolbox …”.

      (15) Paragraph following “We further examined amplitude-phase coupling...” - please clarify what data goes into this analysis.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful comment. In this analysis, the input data consisted of hippocampal (HPC) phase and entorhinal (EC) amplitude, both extracted using the Hilbert transform from the reconstructed BOLD signals of the EC and HPC derived through sinusoidal modulation. We have substantially revised the description of the amplitude–phase coupling analysis in the third paragraph of the “Phase Synchronization Between HPC and EC Activity” subsection of the Results to clarify this procedure.

      (16) Alignment between EC 6-fold phases and HC 3-fold phases: Why don't you simply test whether the preferred 6-fold orientations in EC are similar to the preferred 3-fold phases in HC? The phase-amplitude coupling analyses seem sophisticated but are complex, so it is somewhat difficult to judge to what extent they are correct. 

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful comment. We employed two complementary analyses to examine the relationship between EC and HPC activity. In the revised Figure 4 (as shown in Figure 4 for Reviewer #1), Figure 4a provides a direct and intuitive measure of the phase relationship between the two regions using circular–circular correlation. Figure 4b–c examines whether the activity peaks of the two regions are aligned across path directions using cross-frequency amplitude–phase coupling, given our hypothesis that the spatial phase of the HPC depends on EC projections. These two analyses are complementary: a phase correlation does not necessarily imply peak-to-peak alignment, and conversely, peak alignment does not always yield a statistically significant phase correlation. We therefore combined multiple analytical approaches as a cross-validation across methods, providing convergent evidence for robust EC–HPC coupling.

      (17) Figure 5: Do these results hold when you estimate performance just based on “deviation from the goal to ending locations” (without taking path length into account)? 

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful suggestion. Following the reviewer’s advice, we re-estimated behavioral performance using the deviation between the goal and ending locations (i.e., error size) and path length independently. As shown in the new Figure S9, no significant periodicity was observed in error size (p > 0.05), whereas a robust 3-fold periodicity was found for path length (p < 0.05, corrected for multiple comparisons).

      We employed two behavioral metrics,(1) path length and (2) error size, for complementary reasons. In our task, participants navigated using four discrete keys corresponding to the cardinal directions (north, south, east, and west). This design inherently induces a 4-fold bias in path directions, as described in the “Behavioral performance” subsection of the Methods. To minimize this artifact, we computed the objectively optimal path length and used it to calibrate participants’ path lengths. However, error size could not be corrected in the same manner and retained a residual 4-fold tendency (see Figure S9d).

      Given that both path length and error size are behaviorally relevant and capture distinct aspects of task performance, we decided to retain both measures when quantifying behavioral periodicity. This clarification has been incorporated into the “Behavioral performance” subsection of the Methods, and the 2<sup>nd</sup> paragraph of the “3-fold periodicity in human behavior” subsection of the Results.

      (18) Phase locking between behavioral performance and hippocampal activity: What is your way of creating surrogates here?

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful question. Surrogate datasets were generated by circularly shifting the signal series along the direction axis across all possible offsets (following Canolty et al., 2006). This procedure preserves the internal phase structure within each domain while disrupting consistent phase alignment, thereby removing any systematic coupling between the two signals. Each surrogate dataset underwent identical filtering and coherence computation to generate a null distribution, and the observed coherence strength was compared with this distribution using paired t-tests across participants. The statistical analysis section has been systematically revised to incorporate these methodological details.

      (19) I could not follow why the authors equate 3-fold symmetry with vectorial representations. This includes statements such as “these empirical findings provide a potential explanation for the formation of vectorial representation observed in the HPC.” Please clarify.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point. Please refer to our response to R2 for Reviewer #1 and the revised Introduction (paragraphs 2–4), where we explicitly explain why the three primary axes of the hexagonal grid cell code can manifest as vector fields.

      (20) It was unclear whether the sentence “The EC provides a foundation for the formation of periodic representations in the HPC” is based on the authors’ observations or on other findings. If based on the authors’ findings, this statement seems too strong, given that no other studies have reported periodic representations in the hippocampus to date (to the best of my knowledge).

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We agree that the original wording lacked sufficient rigor. We have extensively revised the 3rd paragraph of the Discussion section with more cautious language by reducing overinterpretation and emphasizing the consistency of our findings with prior empirical evidence, as follows: “The EC–HPC PhaseSync model demonstrates how a vectorial representation may emerge in the HPC from the projections of populations of periodic grid codes in the EC. The model was motivated by two observations. First, the EC intrinsically serves as the major source of hippocampal input (Witter and Amaral, 1991; van Groen et al., 2003; Garcia and Buffalo, 2020), and grid codes exhibit nearly invariant spatial orientations (Hafting et al., 2005; Gardner et al., 2022). Second, mental planning, characterized by “forward replay” (Dragoi and Tonegawa, 2011; Pfeiffer, 2020), has the capacity to activate populations of grid cells that represent sequential experiences in the absence of actual physical movement (Nyberg et al., 2022). We hypothesize that an integrated path code of sequential experiences may eventually be generated in the HPC, providing a vectorial gradient toward the goal location. The path code exhibits regular, vector-like representations when the path direction aligns with the orientations of grid axes, and becomes irregular when they misalign. This explanation is consistent with the band-like representations observed in the dorsomedial EC (Krupic et al., 2012) and the irregular activity fields of trace cells in the HPC (Poulter et al., 2021). ”

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary

      The authors propose a transformer-based model for prediction of condition- or tissue-specific alternative splicing and demonstrate its utility in design of RNAs with desired splicing outcomes, which is a novel application. The model is compared to relevant exising approaches (Pangolin and SpliceAI) and the authors clearly demonstrate its advantage. Overall, a compelling method that is well thought out and evaluated.

      Strengths:

      (1) The model is well thought out: rather than modeling a cassette exon using a single generic deep learning model as has been done e.g. in SpliceAI and related work, the authors propose a modular architecture that focuses on different regions around a potential exon skipping event, which enables the model to learn representations that are specific to those regions. Because each component in the model focuses on a fixed length short sequence segment, the model can learn position-specific features. Furthermore, the architecture of the model is designed to model alternative splicing events, whereas Pangolin and SpliceAI are focused on modeling individual splice junctions, which is an easier problem.

      (2) The model is evaluated in a rigorous way - it is compared to the most relevant state-of-the-art models, uses machine learning best practices, and an ablation study demonstrates the contribution of each component of the architecture.

      (3) Experimental work supports the computational predictions: Regulatory elements predicted by the model were experimentally verified; novel tissue-specific cassette exons were verified by LSV-seq.

      (4) The authors use their model for sequence design to optimize splicing outcome, which is a novel application.

      Weaknesses:

      None noted.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews

      A point by point response included below. Before we turn to that we want to note one change that we decided to introduce, related to generalization on unseen tissues/cell types (Figure 3a in the original submission and related question by Reviewer #2 below). This analysis was based on adding a latent “RBP state” representation during learning of condition/tissue specific splicing. The “RBP state” per condition is captured by a dedicated encoder. Our original plan was to have a paper describing a new RBP-AE model we developed in parallel, which also served as the base to capture this “RBP State”. However, we got delayed in getting this second paper finalized (it was led by other lab members, some of whom have already left the lab). This delay affected the TrASPr manuscript as TrASPr’s code should be available and analysis reproducible upon publication. After much deliberation, we decided that in order to comply with reproducibility standards while not self scooping the RBP-AE paper, we eventually decided to take out the RBP-AE and replace it with a vanilla PCA based embedding for the “RBP-State”. The PCA approach is simpler and reproducible, based on linear transformation of the RBPs expression vector into a lower dimension. The qualitative results included in Figure 3a still hold, and we also produced the new results suggested by Reviewer #2 in other GTEX tissues with this PCA based embedding (below). 

      We don’t believe the switch to PCA based embedding should have any bearing on the current manuscript evaluation but wanted to take this opportunity to explain the reasoning behind this additional change.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors propose a transformer-based model for the prediction of condition - or tissue-specific alternative splicing and demonstrate its utility in the design of RNAs with desired splicing outcomes, which is a novel application. The model is compared to relevant existing approaches (Pangolin and SpliceAI) and the authors clearly demonstrate its advantage. Overall, a compelling method that is well thought out and evaluated.

      Strengths:

      (1) The model is well thought out: rather than modeling a cassette exon using a single generic deep learning model as has been done e.g. in SpliceAI and related work, the authors propose a modular architecture that focuses on different regions around a potential exon skipping event, which enables the model to learn representations that are specific to those regions. Because each component in the model focuses on a fixed length short sequence segment, the model can learn position-specific features. Another difference compared to Pangolin and SpliceAI which are focused on modeling individual splice junctions is the focus on modeling a complete alternative splicing event.

      (2) The model is evaluated in a rigorous way - it is compared to the most relevant state-of-the-art models, uses machine learning best practices, and an ablation study demonstrates the contribution of each component of the architecture.

      (3) Experimental work supports the computational predictions.     

      (4) The authors use their model for sequence design to optimize splicing outcomes, which is a novel application.

      We wholeheartedly thank Reviewer #1 for these positive comments regarding the modeling approach we took to this task and the evaluations we performed. We have put a lot of work and thought into this and it is gratifying to see the results of that work acknowledged like this.

      Weaknesses:

      No weaknesses were identified by this reviewer, but I have the following comments:

      (1) I would be curious to see evidence that the model is learning position-specific representations.

      This is an excellent suggestion to further assess what the model is learning. To get a better sense of the position-specific representation we performed the following analyses:

      (1) Switching the transformers relative order: All transformers are pretrained on 3’ and 5’ splice site regions before fine-tunning for the PSI and dPSI prediction task. We hypothesized that if relative position is important, switching the order of the transformers would make a large difference on prediction accuracy. Indeed if we switch the 3’ and 5’ we see as expected a severe drop in performance, with Pearson correlation on test data dropping from 0.82 to 0.11. Next, we switched the two 5’ and 3’ transformers, observing a drop to 0.65 and 0.78 respectively. When focusing only on changing events the drop was from 0.66 to 0.54 (for 3’ SS transformers), 0.48 (for 5’ SS transformers), and 0.13 (when the 3’ and 5’ transformers flanking the alternative exon were switched). 

      (2) Position specific effect of RBPs: We wanted to test whether the model is able to learn position specific effects for RBPs. For this we focused on two RBPs, FOX (a family of three highly related RBPs), and QKI, both have a relatively well defined motif, known condition and position specific effect identified via RBP KD experiments combined with CLIP experiments (e.g. PMID: 23525800, PMID: 24637117, PMID: 32728246). For each, we randomly selected 40 highly and 40 lowly included cassette exons sequences. We then ran in-silico mutagenesis experiments where we replaced small windows of sequences with the RBP motifs (80 for RBFOX and 80 for QKI), then compared TrASPR’s predictions for the average predictions for 5 random sequences inserted in the same location. The results of this are now shown in Figure 4 Supp 3, where the y-axis represents the dPSI effect per position (x-axis), and the color represents the percentile of observed effects over inserting motifs in that position across all 80 sequences tested. We see that both RBPs have strong positional preferences for exerting a strong effect on the alternative exon. We also see differences between binding upstream and downstream of the alternative exon. These results, learned by the model from natural tissue-specific variations, recapitulate nicely the results derived from high-throughput experimental assays. However, we also note that effects were highly sequence specific. For example, RBFOX is generally expected to increase inclusion when binding downstream of the alternative exon and decrease inclusion when binding upstream. While we do observe such a trend we also see cases where the opposite effects are observed. These sequence specific effects have been reported in the literature but may also represent cases where the model errs in the effect’s direction. We discuss these new results in the revised text.

      (3) Assessing BOS sequence edits to achieve tissue-specific splicing: Here we decided to test whether BOS edits in intronic regions (at least 8b away from the nearest splice site) are important for the tissue-specific effect. The results are now included in Figure 6 Supp 1, clearly demonstrating that most of the neuronal specific changes achieved by BOS were based on changing the introns, with a strong effect observed for both up and downstream intron edits.

      (2) The transformer encoders in TrASPr model sequences with a rather limited sequence size of 200 bp; therefore, for long introns, the model will not have good coverage of the intronic sequence. This is not expected to be an issue for exons.

      The reviewer is raising a good question here. On one hand, one may hypothesize that, as the reviewer seems to suggest, TrASPr may not do well on long introns as it lacks the full intronic sequence.

      Conversely, one may also hypothesize that for long introns, where the flanking exons are outside the window of SpliceAI/Pangolin, TrASPr may have an advantage.

      Given this good question and a related one by Reviewer #2, we divided prediction accuracy by intron length and the alternative exon length.

      For short exons  (<100bp) we find TrASPr and Pangolin perform similarly, but for longer exons, especially those > 200, TrASPr results are better. When dividing samples by the total length of the upstream and downstream intron, we find TrASPr outperform all other models for introns of combined length up to 6K, but Pangolin gets better results when the combined intron length is over 10K. This latter result is interesting as it means that contrary to the second hypothesis laid out above, Pangolin’s performance did not degrade for events where the flanking exons were outside its field of view. We note that all of the above holds whether we assess all events or just cases of tissue specific changes. It is interesting to think about the mechanistic causes for this. For example, it is possible that cassette exons involving very long introns evoke a different splicing mechanism where the flanking exons are not as critical and/or there is more signal in the introns which is missed by TrASPr. We include these new results now as Figure 2 - Supp 1,2 and discuss these in the main text.

      (3) In the context of sequence design, creating a desired tissue- or condition-specific effect would likely require disrupting or creating motifs for splicing regulatory proteins. In your experiments for neuronal-specific Daam1 exon 16, have you seen evidence for that? Most of the edits are close to splice junctions, but a few are further away.

      That is another good question. Regarding Daam1 exon 16, in the original paper describing the mutation locations some motif similarities were noted to PTB (CU) and CUG/Mbnl-like elements (Barash et al Nature 2010). In order to explore this question beyond this specific case we assessed the importance of intronic edits by BOS to achieve a tissue specific splicing profile - see above.

      (4) For sequence design, of tissue- or condition-specific effect in neuronal-specific Daam1 exon 16 the upstream exonic splice junction had the most sequence edits. Is that a general observation? How about the relative importance of the four transformer regions in TrASPr prediction performance?

      This is another excellent question. Please see new experiments described above for RBP positional effect and BOS edits in intronic regions which attempt to give at least partial answers to these questions. We believe a much more systematic analysis can be done to explore these questions but such evaluation is beyond the scope of this work.

      (5) The idea of lightweight transformer models is compelling, and is widely applicable. It has been used elsewhere. One paper that came to mind in the protein realm:

      Singh, Rohit, et al. "Learning the language of antibody hypervariability." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 122.1 (2025): e2418918121.

      We definitely do not make any claim this approach of using lighter, dedicated models instead of a large ‘foundation’ model has not been taken before. We believe Rohit et al mentioned above represents a somewhat different approach, where their model (AbMAP) fine-tunes large general protein foundational models (PLM) for antibody-sequence inputs by supervising on antibody structure and binding specificity examples. We added a description of this modeling approach citing the above work and another one which specifically handles RNA splicing (intron retention, PMID: 39792954).

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors present a transformer-based model, TrASPr, for the task of tissue-specific splicing prediction (with experiments primarily focused on the case of cassette exon inclusion) as well as an optimization framework (BOS) for the task of designing RNA sequences for desired splicing outcomes.

      For the first task, the main methodological contribution is to train four transformer-based models on the 400bp regions surrounding each splice site, the rationale being that this is where most splicing regulatory information is. In contrast, previous work trained one model on a long genomic region. This new design should help the model capture more easily interactions between splice sites. It should also help in cases of very long introns, which are relatively common in the human genome.

      TrASPr's performance is evaluated in comparison to previous models (SpliceAI, Pangolin, and SpliceTransformer) on numerous tasks including splicing predictions on GTEx tissues, ENCODE cell lines, RBP KD data, and mutagenesis data. The scope of these evaluations is ambitious; however, significant details on most of the analyses are missing, making it difficult to evaluate the strength of the evidence. Additionally, state-of-the-art models (SpliceAI and Pangolin) are reported to perform extremely poorly in some tasks, which is surprising in light of previous reports of their overall good prediction accuracy; the reasoning for this lack of performance compared to TrASPr is not explored.

      In the second task, the authors combine Latent Space Bayesian Optimization (LSBO) with a Transformer-based variational autoencoder to optimize RNA sequences for a given splicing-related objective function. This method (BOS) appears to be a novel application of LSBO, with promising results on several computational evaluations and the potential to be impactful on sequence design for both splicing-related objectives and other tasks.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for this detailed summary and positive view of our work. It seems the main issue raised in this summary regards the evaluations: The reviewer finds details of the evaluations missing and the fact that SpliceAI and Pangolin perform poorly on some of the tasks to be surprising. We made a concise effort to include the required details, including code and data tables. In short, some of the concerns were addressed by adding additional evaluations, some by clarifying missing details, and some by better explaining where Pangolin and SpliceAI may excel vs. settings where these may not do as well. More details are given below. 

      Strengths:

      (1) A novel machine learning model for an important problem in RNA biology with excellent prediction accuracy.

      (2) Instead of being based on a generic design as in previous work, the proposed model incorporates biological domain knowledge (that regulatory information is concentrated around splice sites). This way of using inductive bias can be important to future work on other sequence-based prediction tasks.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Most of the analyses presented in the manuscript are described in broad strokes and are often confusing. As a result, it is difficult to assess the significance of the contribution.

      We made an effort to make the tasks be specific and detailed,  including making the code and data of those available. We believe this helped improve clarity in the revised version.

      (2) As more and more models are being proposed for splicing prediction (SpliceAI, Pangolin, SpliceTransformer, TrASPr), there is a need for establishing standard benchmarks, similar to those in computer vision (ImageNet). Without such benchmarks, it is exceedingly difficult to compare models. For instance, Pangolin was apparently trained on a different dataset (Cardoso-Moreira et al. 2019), and using a different processing pipeline (based on SpliSER) than the ones used in this submission. As a result, the inferior performance of Pangolin reported here could potentially be due to subtle distribution shifts. The authors should add a discussion of the differences in the training set, and whether they affect your comparisons (e.g., in Figure 2). They should also consider adding a table summarizing the various datasets used in their previous work for training and testing. Publishing their training and testing datasets in an easy-to-use format would be a fantastic contribution to the community, establishing a common benchmark to be used by others.

      There are several good points to unpack here. Starting from the last one, we very much agree that a standard benchmark will be useful to include. For tissue specific splicing quantification we used the GTEx dataset from which we select six representative human tissues (heart, cerebellum, lung, liver, spleen, and EBV-transformed lymphocytes). In total, we collected 38394 cassette exon events quantified across 15 samples (here a ‘sample’ is a cassette exon quantified in two tissues) from the GTEx dataset with high-confidence quantification for their PSIs based on MAJIQ. A detailed description of how this data was derived is now included in the Methods section, and the data itself is made available via the bitbucket repository with the code.

      Next, regarding the usage of different data and distribution shifts for Pangolin: The reviewer is right to note there are many differences between how Pangolin and TrASPr were trained. This makes it hard to determine whether the improvements we saw are not just a result of different training data/labels. To address this issue, we first tried to finetune the pre-trained Pangolin with MAJIQ’s PSI dataset: we use the subset of the GTEx dataset described above, focusing on the three tissues analyzed in Pangolin’s paper—heart, cerebellum, and liver—for a fair comparison. In total, we obtained 17,218 events, and we followed the same training and test split as reported in the Pangolin paper. We got Pearson: 0.78 Spearman: 0.68 which are values similar to what we got without this extra fine tuning. Next, we retrained Pangolin from scratch, with the full tissues and training set used for TrASPr, which was derived from MAJIQ’s quantifications. Since our model only trained on human data with 6 tissues at the same time, we modified Pangolin from original 4 splice site usage outputs to 6 PSI outputs. We tried to take the sequence centered with the first or the second splice site of the mid exon. This test resulted in low performance (3’ SS: pearson 0.21 5’ SS: 0.26.). 

      The above tests are obviously not exhaustive but their results suggest that the differences we observe are unlikely to be driven by distribution shifts. Notably, the original Pangolin was trained on much more data (four species, four tissues each, and sliding windows across the entire genome). This training seems to be important for performance while the fact we switched from Pangolin’s splice site usage to MAJIQ’s PSI was not a major contributor. Other potential reasons for the improvements we observed include the architecture, target function, and side information (see below) but a complete delineation of those is beyond the scope of this work. 

      (3) Related to the previous point, as discussed in the manuscript, SpliceAI, and Pangolin are not designed to predict PSI of cassette exons. Instead, they assign a "splice site probability" to each nucleotide. Converting this to a PSI prediction is not obvious, and the method chosen by the authors (averaging the two probabilities (?)) is likely not optimal. It would be interesting to see what happens if an MLP is used on top of the four predictions (or the outputs of the top layers) from SpliceAI/Pangolin. This could also indicate where the improvement in TrASPr comes from: is it because TrASPr combines information from all four splice sites? Also, consider fine-tuning Pangolin on cassette exons only (as you do for your model).

      Please see the above response. We did not investigate more sophisticated models that adjust Pangolin’s architecture further as such modifications constitute new models which are beyond the scope of this work.

      (4) L141, "TrASPr can handle cassette exons spanning a wide range of window sizes from 181 to 329,227 bases - thanks to its multi-transformer architecture." This is reported to be one of the primary advantages compared to existing models. Additional analysis should be included on how TrASPr performs across varying exon and intron sizes, with comparison to SpliceAI, etc.

      This was a good suggestion, related to another comment made by Reviewer #1. Please see above our response to them with a breakdown by exon/intron length.

      (5) L171, "training it on cassette exons". This seems like an important point: previous models were trained mostly on constitutive exons, whereas here the model is trained specifically on cassette exons. This should be discussed in more detail.

      Previous models were not trained exclusively on constitutive exons and Pangolin specifically was trained with their version of junction usage across tissues. That said, the reviewer’s point is valid (and similar to ones made above) about a need to have a matched training/testing and potential distribution shifts. Please see response and evaluations described above. 

      (6) L214, ablations of individual features are missing.

      These were now added to the table which we moved to the main text (see table also below).

      (7) L230, "ENCODE cell lines", it is not clear why other tissues from GTEx were not included.

      Good question. The task here was to assess predictions in unseen conditions, hence we opted to test on completely different data of human cell lines rather than additional tissue samples. Following the reviewers suggestion we also evaluated predictions on two additional GTEx tissues, Cortex and Adrenal Gland. These new results, as well as the previous ones for ENCODE, were updated to use the PCA based embedding of “RBP-State” as described above. We also compared the predictions using the PCA based embedding of the “RBP-State” to training directly on data (not the test data of course) from these tissues. See updated Figure 3a,b. Figure 3 Supp 1,2.

      (8) L239, it is surprising that SpliceAI performs so badly, and might suggest a mistake in the analysis. Additional analysis and possible explanations should be provided to support these claims. Similarly, the complete failure of SpliceAI and Pangolin is shown in Figure 4d.

      Line 239 refers to predicting relative inclusion levels between competing 3’ and 5’ splice sites. We admit we too expected this to be better for SpliceAI and Pangolin but we were not able to find bugs in our analysis (which is all made available for readers and reviewers alike). Regarding this expectation to perform better, first we note that we are not aware of a similar assessment being done for either of those algorithms (i.e. relative inclusion for 3’ and 5’ alternative splice site events). Instead, our initial expectation, and likely the reviewer’s as well, was based on their detection of splice site strengthening/weakening due to mutations, including cryptic splice site activation. More generally though, it is worth noting in this context that given how SpliceAI, Pangolin and other algorithms have been presented in papers/media/scientific discussions, we believe there is a potential misperception regarding tasks that SpliceAI and Pangolin excel at vs other tasks where they should not necessarily be expected to excel. Both algorithms focus on cryptic splice site creation/disruption. This has been the focus of those papers and subsequent applications.  While Pangolin added tissue specificity to SpliceAI training, the authors themselves admit “...predicting differential splicing across tissues from sequence alone is possible but remains a considerable challenge and requires further investigation”. The actual performance on this task is not included in Pangolin’s main text, but we refer Reviewer #2 to supplementary figure S4 in the Pangolin manuscript to get a sense of Pangolin’s reported performance on this task. Similar to that, Figure 4d in our manuscript is for predicting ‘tissue specific’ regulators. We do not think it is surprising that SpliceAI (tissue agnostic) and Pangolin (slight improvement compared to SpliceAI in tissue specific predictions) do not perform well on this task. Similarly, we do not find the results in Figure 4C surprising either. These are for mutations that slightly alter inclusion level of an exon, not something SpliceAI was trained on - SpiceAI was trained on genomic splice sites with yes/no labels across the genome. As noted elsewhere in our response, re-training Pangolin on this mutagenesis dataset results in performance much closer to that of TrASPr. That is to be expected as well - Pangolin is constructed to capture changes in PSI (or splice site usage as defined by the authors), those changes are not even tissue specific for the CD19 data and the model has no problem/lack of capacity to generalize from the training set just like TrASPr does. In fact, if you only use combinations of known mutations seen during training a simple regression model gives correlation of ~92-95% (Cortés-López et al 2022). In summary, we believe that better understanding of what one can realistically expect from models such as SpliceAI, Pangolin, and TrASPr will go a long way to have them better understood and used effectively. We have tried to make this more clear in the revision.

      (9) BOS seems like a separate contribution that belongs in a separate publication. Instead, consider providing more details on TrASPr.

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. We agree those are two distinct contributions/algorithms and we indeed considered having them as two separate papers. However, there is strong coupling between the design algorithm (BOS) and the predictor that enables it (TrASPr). This coupling is both conceptual (TrASPr as a “teacher”) and practical in terms of evaluations. While we use experimental data (experiments done involving Daam1 exon 16, CD19 exon 2) we still rely heavily on evaluations by TrASPr itself. A completely independent evaluation would have required a high-throughput experimental system to assess designs, which is beyond the scope of the current paper. For those reasons we eventually decided to make it into what we hope is a more compelling combined story about generative models for prediction and design of RNA splicing.

      (10) The authors should consider evaluating BOS using Pangolin or SpliceTransformer as the oracle, in order to measure the contribution to the sequence generation task provided by BOS vs TrASPr.

      We can definitely see the logic behind trying BOS with different predictors. That said, as we note above most of BOS evaluations are based on the “teacher”. As such, it is unclear what value replacing the teacher would bring. We also note that given this limitation we focus mostly on evaluations in comparison to existing approaches (genetic algorithm or random mutations as a strawman). 

      Recommendations for the authors: 

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Additional comments:

      (1) Is your model picking up transcription factor binding sites in addition to RBPs? TFs have been recently shown to have a role in splicing regulation:

      Daoud, Ahmed, and Asa Ben-Hur. "The role of chromatin state in intron retention: A case study in leveraging large scale deep learning models." PLOS Computational Biology 21.1 (2025): e1012755.

      We agree this is an interesting point to explore, especially given the series of works from the Ben-Hur’s group. We note though that these works focus on intron retention (IR) which we haven’t focused on here, and we only cover short intronic regions flanking the exons. We leave this as a future direction as we believe the scope of this paper is already quite extensive.

      (2) SpliceNouveau is a recently published algorithm for the splicing design problem:

      Wilkins, Oscar G., et al. "Creation of de novo cryptic splicing for ALS and FTD precision medicine." Science 386.6717 (2024): 61-69.

      Thank you for pointing out Wilkins et al recent publication, we now refer to it as well. 

      (3) Please discuss the relationship between your model and this deep learning model. You will also need to change the following sentence: "Since the splicing sequence design task is novel, there are no prior implementations to reference."

      We revised this statement and now refer to several recent publications that propose similar design tasks.  

      (4) I would suggest adding a histogram of PSI values - they appear to be mostly close to 1 or 0.

      PSI values are indeed typically close to either 0 or 1. This is a known phenomenon illustrated in previous studies of splicing (e.g. Shen et al NAR 2012 ). We are not sure what is meant by the comment to add a histogram but we made sure to point this out in the main text: 

      “...Still, those statistics are dominated by extreme values, such that 33.2\% are smaller than 0.15 and 56.0\% are higher than 0.85. Furthermore, most cassette exons do not change between a given tissue pair (only 14.0\% of the samples in the dataset, \ie a cassette exon measured across two tissues, exhibit ΔΨ| ≥ 0.15).”

      (5) Part of the improvement of TrASPr over Pangolin could be the result of a more extensive dataset.

      Please see above responses and new analysis.

      (6) In the discussion of the roles of alternative splicing, protein diversity is mentioned, but I suggest you also mention the importance of alternative splicing as a regulatory mechanism:

      Lewis, Benjamin P., Richard E. Green, and Steven E. Brenner. "Evidence for the widespread coupling of alternative splicing and nonsense-mediated mRNA decay in humans." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 100.1 (2003): 189-192.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We added that point and citation. 

      (7) Line 96: You use dPSI without defining it (although quite clear that it should be Delta PSI).

      Fixed.

      (8) Pretrained transformers: Have you trained separate transformers on acceptor and donor sites, or a single splice junction transformer?

      Single splice junction pre-training.

      (9) "TrASPr measures the probability that the splice site in the center of Se is included in some tissue" - that's not my understanding of what TrASPr is designed to do.

      We revised the above sentence to make it more precise: “Given a genomic sequence context S<sub>e</sub> = (s<sub>e</sub>,...,s<sub>e</sub>), made of  a cassette exon e and flanking intronic/exonic regions, TrASPr predicts for tissue c the fraction of transcripts where exon e is included or skipped over, ΔΨ-<sub>e,c,c’</sub>.”

      (10) Please include the version of the human genome annotations that you used. 

      We used GENCODE v40 human genome hg38- this is now included in the Data section. 

      (11) I did not see a description of the RBP-AE component in the methods section. A bit more detail on the model would be useful as well.

      Please see above details about replacing RBP-AE with a simpler linear PCA “RBP-State” encoding. We added details about how the PCA was performed to the Methods section.

      (12) Typos, grammar:

      -   Fix the following sentence: ATP13A2, a lysosomal transmembrane cation transporter, linked to an early-onset form of Parkinson's Disease (PD) when 306 loss-of-function mutations disrupt its function.

      Sentence was fixed to now read: “The first example is of a brain cerebellum-specific cassette exon skipping event predicted by TrASPr in the ATP13A2 gene (aka PARK9). ATP13A2 is a lysosomal transmembrane cation transporter, for which loss of function mutation has been linked to early-onset of Parkinson’s Disease (PD)”.

      -   Line 501: "was set to 4e−4"(the - is a superscript). 

      Fixed

      -   A couple of citations are missing in lines 580 and 581.

      Thank you for catching this error. Citations in line 580, 581 were fixed.

      (13) Paper title: Generative modeling for RNA splicing predictions and design - it would read better as "Generative modeling for RNA splicing prediction and design", as you are solving the problems of splicing prediction and splicing design.  

      Thank you for the suggestion. We updated the title and removed the plural form.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Appendices are not very common in biology journals. It is also not clear what purpose the appendix serves exactly - it seems to repeat some of the things said earlier. Consider merging it into the methods or the main text. 

      We merged the appendices into the Methods section and removed redundancy.

      (2) L112, "For instance, the model could be tasked with designing a new version of the cassette exon, restricted to no more than N edit locations and M total base changes." How are N and M different? Is there a difference between an edit location and a base change? 

      Yes, N is the number of locations (one can think of it as a start position) of various lengths (e.g. a SNP is of length 1) and the total number of positions edited is M. The text now reads “For instance, the model could be tasked with designing a new version of the cassette exon, restricted to no more than  $N$ edit locations (\ie start position of one or more consecutive bases) and $M$ total base changes.”

      (3) L122: "DEN was developed for a distinct problem". What prevents one from adapting DEN to your sequence design task? The method should be generic. I do not see what "differs substantially" means here. (Finally, wasn't DEN developed for the task you later refer to as "alternative splice site" (as opposed to "splice site selection")? Use consistent terminology. And in L236 you use "splice site variation" - is that also the same?).

      Indeed, our original description was not clear/precise enough. DEN was designed and trained for two tasks: APA, and 5’ alternative splice site usage. The terms “selection”, “usage”, and “variation” were indeed used interchangeably in different locations and the reviewer was right, noting the lack of precision. We have now revised the text to make sure the term “relative usage” is used. 

      Nonetheless, we hold DEN was indeed defined for different tasks. See figures from Figure 2A, 6A of Linder et al 2020 (the reference was also incorrect as we cited the preprint and not the final paper):

      In both cases DEN is trying to optimize a short region for selecting an alternative PA site (left) or a 5’ splice site (right). This work focused on an MPRA dataset of short synthetic sequences inserted in the designated region for train/test. We hold this is indeed a different type of data and task then the one we focus on here. Yes, one can potentially adopt DEN for our task, but this is beyond the scope of this paper. Finally, we note that a more closely related algorithm recently proposed is Ledidi (Schreiber et al 2025) which was posted as a pre-print. Similar to BOS, Ledidi tries to optimize a given sequence and adopt it with a few edits for a given task. Regardless, we updated the main text to make the differences between DEN and the task we defined here for BOS more clear, and we also added a reference to Ledidi and other recent works in the discussion section.

      (4) L203, exons with DeltaPSI very close to 0.15 are going to be nearly impossible to classify (or even impossible, considering that the DeltaPSI measurements are not perfect). Consider removing such exons to make the task more feasible.

      Yes, this is how it was done. As described in more details below, we defined changing samples as ones where the change was >= 0.15 and non-changing as ones where the change in PSI was < 0.05 to avoid ambiguous cases affecting the classification task.  

      (5) L230, RBP-AE is not explained in sufficient detail (and does not appear in the methods, apparently). It is not clear how exactly it is trained on each new cellular condition.

      Please see response in the opening of this document and Q11 from

      Reviewer 1 

      (6) L230, "significantly improving": the r value actually got worse; it is therefore not clear you can claim any significant improvement. Please mention that fact in the text.

      This is a fair point. We note that we view the “a” statistic as potentially more interesting/relevant here as the Pearson “r” is dominated by points being generally close to 0/1.  Regardless, revisiting this we realized one can also make a point that the term “significant” is imprecise/misplaced since there is no statistical test done here (side note: given the amount of points, a simple null of same distribution yes/no would pass significance but we don’t think this is an interesting/relevant test here). Also, we note that with the transition to PCA instead of RBP-AE we actually get improvements in both a and r values, both for the ENCODE samples shown in Figure 3a and the two new GTEX tissues we tested (see above). We now changed the text to simply state: 

      “...As shown in Figure 3a, this latent space representation allows TrSAPr to generalize from the six GTEX tissues to unseen conditions, including unseen GTEX tissues (top row), and ENCODE cell lines (bottom row). It improves prediction accuracy compared to TrASPr lacking PCA (eg a=88.5% vs a=82.3% for ENCODE cell lines), though naturally training on the additional GTEX and ENCODE conditions can lead to better performance  (eg a=91.7%, for ENCODE, Figure 3a left column).”

      (7) L233, "Notably, previous splicing codes focused solely on cassette exons", Rosenberg et al. focused solely on alternative splice site choice.

      Right - we removed that sentence.. 

      (8) L236, "trained TrASPr on datasets for 3' and 5' splice site variations". Please provide more details on this task. What is the input to TrASPr and what is the prediction target (splice site usage, PSI of alternative isoforms)? What datasets are used for this task?

      The data for this data was the same GTEx tissue data processed, just for alternative 3’ and 5’ splice sites events. We revised the description of this task in the main task and added information in the Methods section. The data is also included in the repo.

      (9) L243, "directly from genomic sequences", and conservation?

      Yes, we changed the sentence to read “...directly from genomic sequences combined with related features” 

      (10) L262, what is the threshold for significant splicing changes?

      The threshold is 0.15 We updated the main text to read the following:

      The total number of mutations hitting each of the 1198 genomic positions across the 6106 sequences is shown in \FIG{mut_effect}b (left), while the distribution of effects ($|\Delta \Psi|$) observed across those 6106 samples is shown in \FIG{mut_effect}b (right). To this data we applied three testing schemes. The first is a standard 5-fold CV where 20\% of combinations of point mutations were hidden in every fold while the second test involved 'unseen mutation' (UM) where we hide any sample that includes mutations in specific positions for a total of 1480 test samples. As illustrated by the CDF in \FIG{mut_effect}b, most samples (each sample may involve multiple positions mutated) do not involve significant splicing changes. Thus, we also performed a third test using only  the 883 samples were mutations cause significant changes ($|\Delta \Psi|\geq 0.15 $). 

      (11) L266, Pangolin performance is only provided for one of the settings (and it is not clear which). Please provide details of its performance in all settings.

      The description was indeed not clear. Pangolin’s performance was similar to SpliceAI as mentioned above but retraining it on the CD19 data yielded much closer performance to TrASPr. We include all the matching tests for Pangolin after retraining in Figure 4 Supp Figure 1. 

      (12) Please specify "n=" in all relevant plots. 

      Fixed.

      (13) Figure 3a, "The tissues were first represented as tokens, and new cell line results were predicted based on the average over conditions during training." Please explain this procedure in more detail. What are these tokens and how are they provided to the model? Are the cell line predictions the average of the predictions for the training tissues?

      Yes, we compared to simply the average over the predictions for the training tissues for that specific event as baseline to assess improvements (see related work pointing for the need to have similar baselines in DL for genomics in https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33213499/). Regarding the tokens - we encode each tissue type as a possible value and feed the two tissues as two tokens to the transformer.

      (14) Figure 4b, the total count in the histogram is much greater than 6106. Please explain the dataset you're using in more detail, and what exactly is shown here.

      We updated the text to read: 

      “...we used 6106 sequence samples where each sample may have multiple positions mutated (\ie mutation combinations) in exon 2 of CD19 and its flanking introns and exons (Cortes et al 2022). The total number of mutations hitting each of the 1198 genomic positions across the 6106 sequences is shown in Figure 4b (left).”

      (15) Figure 5a, how are the prediction thresholds (TrASPr passed, TrASPr stringent, and TrASPr very stringent) defined?

      Passed: dpsi>0.1, Stringent: dpsi>0.15, Very stringent: dpsi>0.2 This is now included in the main text.

      (16) L417, please include more detail on the relative size of TrASPr compared to other models (e.g. number of parameters, required compute, etc.).

      SpliceAI is a general-purpose splicing predictor with 32-layer deep residual neural network to capture long-range dependencies in genomic sequences. Pangolin is a deep learning model specifically designed for predicting tissue-specific splicing with similar architecture as SpliceAI. The implementation of SpliceAI that can be found here https://huggingface.co/multimolecule/spliceai involves an ensemble of 5 such models for a total of ~3.5M parameters. TrASPr, has 4 BERT transformers (each 6 layers and 12 heads) and MLP a top of those for a total of ~189M parameters. Evo 2, a genomic ‘foundation’ model has 40B parameters, DNABERT has ~86M (a single BERT with 12 layers and 12 heads), and Borzoi has 186M parameters (as stated in https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.05.26.656171v2).  We note that the difference here is not just in model size but also the amount of data used to train the model. We edited the original L417 to reflect that.

      (17) L546, please provide more detail on the VAE. What is the dimension of the latent representation?

      We added more details in the Methods section like the missing dimension (256) and definitions for P(Z) and P(S). 

      (18) Consider citing (and possibly comparing BOS to) Ghari et al., NeurIPS 2024 ("GFlowNet Assisted Biological Sequence Editing").

      Added.

      (19) Appendix Figure 2, and corresponding main text: it is not clear what is shown here. What is dPSI+ and dPSI-? What pairs of tissues are you comparing? Spearman correlation is reported instead of Pearson, which is the primary metric used throughout the text.

      The dPSI+ and dPSI- sets were indeed not well defined in the original submission. Moreover, we found our own code lacked consistency due to different tests executed at different times/by different people. We apologize for this lack of consistency and clarity which we worked to remedy in the revised version. To answer the reviewer’s question, given two tissues ($c,c'$), dPSI+ and dPSI- is for correctly classifying the exons that are significantly differentially included or excluded. Specifically, differential included exons are those for which  $\Delta \Psi_{e,c1,c2} = \Psi_\Psi_{e,c1} - \Psi_{e,c2}  \geq 0.15$, compared to those that are not  ($\Delta \Psi_{e,c1,c2} < 0.05). Similarly, dPSI- is for correctly classifying the exons that are significantly differentially excluded in the first tissue or included in the second tissue ($\Delta \Psi_{e,c1,c2} = \Psi_\Psi_{e,c1} - \Psi_{e,c2}  \leq -0.15$) compared to those that are not  ($\Delta \Psi_{e,c1,c2} > -0.05). This means dPSI+ and dPSI- are dependent on the order of c1, c2. In addition, we also define a direction/order agnostic test for changing vs non changing events i.e. $|\Delta \Psi_{e,c1,c2}| \geq 0.15$ vs $|\Delta \Psi_{e,c1,c2}| < 0.05$. These test definitions are consistent with previous publications (e.g. Barash et al Nature 2010, Jha et al 2017) and also answer different biological questions: For example “Exons that go up in brain” and “Exons that go up in Liver” can reflect distinct mechanisms, while changing exons capture a model’s ability to identify regulated exons even if the direction of prediction may be wrong. The updated Appendix Figure 2 is now in the main text as Figure 2d and uses Pearson, while AUPRC and AUROC refer to the changing vs no-changing classification task described above such that we avoid dPSI+ and dPSI- when summarizing in this table over 3 pairs of tissues . Finally, we note that making sure all tests comply with the above definition also resulted in an update to Figure 2b/c labels and values, where TrASPr’s improvements over Pangolin reaches up to 1.8fold in AUPRC compared to 2.4fold in the earlier version. We again apologize for having a lack of clarity and consistent evaluations in the original submission.

      (20) Minor typographical comments:

      -   Some plots could use more polishing (e.g., thicker stroke, bigger font size, consistent style (compare 4a to the other plots)...).

      Agreed. While not critical for the science itself we worked to improve figure polishing in the revision to make those more readable and pleasant. 

      -   Consider using 2-dimensional histograms instead of the current kernel density plots, which tend to over-smooth the data and hide potentially important details. 

      We were not sure what the exact suggestion is here and opted to leave the plots as is.

      -   L53: dPSI_{e, c, c'} is never formally defined. Is it PSI_{e, c} - PSI_{e, c'} or vice versa?  

      Definition now included (see above).

      -   L91: Define/explain "transformer" and provide reference. 

      We added the explanation and related reference of the transformer in the introduction section and BERT in the method section.  

      -   L94: exons are short. Are you referring here to the flanking introns? Please explain. 

      We apologize for the lack of clarity. We are referring to a cassette exon alternative splicing event as is commonly defined by the splice junctions involved that is from the 5’ SS of the upstream exon to the 3’ SS of the downstream exon. The text now reads:

      “...In contrast, 24% of the cassette exons analyzed in this study span a region between the flanking exons' upstream 3' and downstream 5' splice sites that are larger than 10 kb.”

      -   L132: It's unclear whether a single, shared transformer or four different transformers (one for each splice site) are being pre-trained. One would at least expect 5' and 3' splice sites to have a different transformer. In Methods, L506, it seems that each transformer is pre-trained separately. 

      We updated the text to read:

      “We then center a dedicated transformer around each of the splice sites of the cassette exon and its upstream and downstream (competing) exons (four separate transformers for four splice sites in total).”

      -   L471: You explain here that it is unclear what tasks 'foundation' models are good for. Also in L128, you explain that you are not using a 'foundation' model. But then in L492, you describe the BERT model you're using as a foundation model! 

      Line 492 was simply a poor choice of wording as “foundation” is meant here simply as the “base component”. We changed it accordingly.

      -   L169, "pre-training ... BERT", explain what exactly this means. Is it using masking? Is it self-supervised learning? How many splice sites do you provide? Also explain more about the BERT architecture and provide references. 

      We added more details about the BERT architecture and training in the Methods section.

      -   L186 and later, the values for a and r provided here and in the below do not correspond to what is shown in Figure 2. 

      Fixed, thank you for noticing this.

      -   L187,188: What exactly do you mean by "events" and "samples"? Are they the same thing? If so, are they (exon, tissue) pairs? Please use consistent terminology. Moreover, when you say "changing between two conditions": do you take all six tissues whenever there is a 0.15 spread in PSI among them? Or do you take just the smallest PSI tissue and the largest PSI tissue when there is a 0.15 spread between them? Or something else altogether?

      Reviewer #2 is yet again correct that the definitions were not precise. A “sample” involves a specific exon skipping “event” measured in two tissues.  The text now reads: 

      “....most cassette exons do not change between a given tissue pair (only 14.0% of the samples in the dataset, i.e., a cassette exon measured across two tissues, exhibit |∆Ψ| ≥ 0.15). Thus, when we repeat this analysis only for samples involving exons that exhibited a change in inclusion (|∆Ψ| ≥ 0.15) between at least two tissues, performance degrades for all three models, but the differences between them become more striking (Figure 2a, right column).”

      -   Figure 1a, explain the colors in the figure legend. The 3D effect is not needed and is confusing (ditto in panel C).

      Color explanation is now added: “exons and introns are shown as blue rectangles and black lines. The blue dashed line indicates the inclusive pattern and the red junction indicates an alternative splicing pattern.” 

      These are not 3D effects but stacks to indicate multiple events/cases. We agree these are not needed in Fig1a to illustrate types of AS and removed those. However, in Fig1c and matching caption we use the stacks to  indicate HT data captures many such LSVs over which ML algorithms can be trained. 

      -   Figure 1b, this cartoon seems unnecessary and gives the wrong impression that this paper explores mechanistic aspects of splicing. The only relevant fact (RBPs serving as splicing factors) can be explained in the text (and is anyway not really shown in this figure).

      We removed Figure 1b cartoon.

      -   Figure 1c, what is being shown by the exon label "8"? 

      This was meant to convey exon ID, now removed to simplify the figure. 

      -   Figure 1e, left, write "Intron Len" in one line. What features are included under "..."? Based on the text, I did not expect more features.

      Also, the arrows emanating from the features do not make sense. Is "Embedding" a layer? I don't think so. Do not show it as a thin stripe. Finally, what are dPSI'+ and dPSI'-? are those separate outputs? are those logits of a classification task?

      We agree this description was not good and have updated it in the revised version. 

      -   Figure 1e, the right-hand side should go to a separate figure much later, when you introduce BOS.

      We appreciate the suggestion. However, we feel that Figure 1e serves as a visual representation of the entire framework. Just like we opted to not turn this work into two separate papers (though we fully agree it is a valid option that would also increase our publication count), we also prefer to leave this unified visual representation as is.

      -   Figure 2, does the n=2456 refer to the number of (exons, tissues) pairs? So each exon contributes potentially six times to this plot? Typo "approximately". 

      The “n” refers to the number of samples which is a cassette event measured in two tissues. The same cassette event may appear in multiple samples if it was confidently quantified in more than two tissues. We updated the caption to reflect this and corrected the typo.

      -   Figure 2b, typo "differentially included (dPSI+) or excluded" .

      Fixed.

      -   L221, "the DNABERT" => "DNABERT".

      Fixed.

      -   L232, missing percent sign.

      -    

      Fixed.

      -   L246, "see Appendix Section 2 for details" seems to instead refer to the third section of the appendix.

      We do not have this as an Appendix, the reference has been updated.

      -   Figure 3, bottom panels, PSI should be "splice site usage"? 

      PSI is correct here - we hope the revised text/definitions make it more clear now.

      -   Figure 3b: typo: "when applied to alternative alternative 3'".

      Fixed.

      -   p252, "polypyrimidine" (no capitalization).

      Fixed.

      -   Strange capitalization of tissue names (e.g., "Brain-Cerebellum"). The tissue is called "cerebellum" without capitalization.

      We used EBV (capital) for the abbreviation and lower case for the rest.

      -   Figure 4c: "predicted usage" on the left but "predicted PSI" on the right. 

      Right. We opted to leave it as is since Pangolin and SpliceAI do predict their definition of “usage” and not directly PSI, we just measure correlations to observed PSI as many works have done in the past. 

      -   Figure 4 legend typo: "two three".

      Fixed.

      -   L351, typo: "an (unsupervised)" (and no need to capitalize Transformer).

      Fixed.

      -   L384, "compared to other tissues at least" => "compared to other tissues of at least".

      Fixed.

      -   L549, P(Z) and P(S) are not defined in the text.

      Fixed.

      -   L572, remove "Subsequently". Add missing citations at the end of the paragraph.

      Fixed.

      -   L580-581, citations missing.

      Fixed.

      -   L584-585, typo: "high confidince predictions"

      Fixed.

      -   L659-660, BW-M and B-WM are both used. Typo?

      Fixed.

      -   L895, "calculating the average of these two", not clear; please rewrite.

      Fixed.

      -   L897, "Transformer" and "BERT", do these refer to the same thing? Be consistent.  

      BOS is a transformer and not a BERT but TrASPr uses the BERT architecture. BERT is a type of transformer as the reviewer is surely well aware so the sentence is correct. Still, to follow the reviewer’s recommendation for consistency/clarity we changed it here to state BERT.

      -   Appendix Figure 5: The term dPSI appears to be overloaded to also represent the difference between predicted PSI and measured PSI, which is inconsistent with previous definitions. 

      Indeed! We thank the reviewer again for their sharp eye and attention to details that we missed. We changed Supp Figure 5, now Figure 4 Supplementary Figure 2, to |PSI’-PSI| and defined those as the difference between TrASPr’s predictions (PSI’) and MAJIQ based PSI quantifications.

    1. Joint Public Review:

      Summary:

      This is an excellent, timely study investigating and characterizing the underlying neural activity that generates the neuroendocrine GnRH and LH surges that are responsible for triggering ovulation. Abundant evidence accumulated over the past 20 years implicated the population of kisspeptin neurons in the hypothalamic RP3V region (also referred to as the POA or AVPV/PeN kisspeptin neurons) as being involved in driving the GnRH surge in response to elevated estradiol (E2), also known as the "estrogen positive feedback". However, while former studies used Cfos coexpression as a marker of RP3V kisspeptin neuron activation at specific times and found this correlates with the timing of the LH surge, detailed examination of the live in vivo activity of these neurons before, during, and after the LH surge remained elusive due to technical challenges.

      Here, Zhou and colleagues use fiber photometry to measure the long-term synchronous activity of RP3V kisspeptin neurons across different stages of the mouse estrous cycle, including on proestrus when the LH surge occurs, as well as in a well-established OVX+E2 mouse model of the LH surge.

      The authors report that RP3V kisspeptin neuron activity is low on estrous and diestrus, but increases on proestrus several hours before the late afternoon LH surge, mirroring prior reports of rising GnRH neuron activity in proestrus female mice. The measured increase in RP3V kisspeptin activation is long, spanning ~13 hours in proestrus females and extending well beyond the end of the LH secretion, and is shown by the authors to be E2 dependent.

      For this work, Kiss-Cre female mice received a Cre-dependent AAV injection, containing GCaMP6, to measure the neuronal activation of RP3V Kiss1 cells. Females exhibited periods of increased neuronal activation on the day of proestrus, beginning several hours prior to the LH surge and lasting for about 12 hours. Though oscillations in the pattern of GCaMP fluorescence were occasionally observed throughout the ovarian cycle, the frequency, duration, and amplitude of these oscillations were significantly higher on the day of proestrus. This increase in RP3V Kiss1 neuronal activation that precedes the increase in LH supports the hypothesis that these neurons are critical in regulating the LH surge. The authors compare this data to new data showing a similar increased activation pattern in GnRH neurons just prior to the LH surge, further supporting the hypothesis that RP3V Kiss1 cell activation causes the release of kisspeptin to stimulate GnRH neurons and produce the LH surge.

      Strengths:

      This study provides compelling data demonstrating that RP3V kisspeptin neuronal activity changes throughout the ovarian cycle, likely in response to changes in estradiol levels, and that neuronal activation increases on the day of the LH surge.

      The observed increase in RP3V kisspeptin neuronal activation precedes the LH surge, which lends support to the hypothesis that these neurons play a role in regulating the estradiol-induced LH surge. Continuing to examine the complexities of the LH surge and the neuronal populations involved, as done in this study, is critical for developing therapeutic treatments for women's reproductive disorders.

      This innovative study uses a within-subject design to examine neuronal activation in vivo across multiple hormone milieus, providing a thorough examination of the changes in activation of these neurons. The variability in neuronal activity surrounding the LH surge across ovarian cycles in the same animals is interesting and could not be achieved without this within-subjects design. The inclusion and comparison of ovary-intact females and OVX+E2 females is valuable to help test mechanisms under these two valuable LH surge conditions, and allows for further future studies to tease apart minor differences in the LH surge pattern between these 2 conditions.

      This study provides an excellent experimental setup able to monitor the daily activity of preoptic kisspeptin neurons in freely moving female mice. It will be a valuable tool to assess the putative role of these kisspeptin neurons in various aspects of altered female fertility (aging, pathologies...). This approach also offers novel and useful insights into the impact of E2 and circadian cues on the electrical activity of RP3V kisspeptin neurons.

      An intriguing cyclical oscillation in kisspeptin neural activity every 90 minutes exists, which may offer critical insight into how the RP3V kisspeptin system operates. Interestingly, there was also variability in the onset and duration of RP3V Kisspeptin neuron activity between and within mice in naturally cycling females. Preoptic kisspeptin neurons show an increased activity around the light/dark transition only on the day of proestrus, and this is associated with an increase in LH secretion. An original finding is the observation that the peak of kisspeptin neuron activation continues a few hours past the peak of LH, and the authors hypothesize that this prolonged activity could drive female sexual behaviors, which usually appear after the LH surge.

      The authors demonstrated that ovariectomy resulted in very little neuronal activity in RP3V kisspeptin neurons. When these ovarietomized females were treated with estradiol benzoate (EB) and an LH surge was induced, there was an increase in RP3V kisspeptin neuronal activation, as was seen during proestrus. However, the magnitude of the change in activity was greater during proestrus than during the EB-induced LH surge. Interestingly, the authors noted a consistent peak in activity about 90 minutes prior to lights out on each day of the ovarian cycle and during EB treatment, but not in ovariectomized females. The functional purpose of this consistent neuronal activity at this time remains to be determined.

      Though not part of this study, the comparison of neuronal activation of GnRH neurons during the LH surge to the current data was convincing, demonstrating a similar pattern of increased activation that precedes the LH surge.

      In summary, the study is well-designed, uses proper controls and analyses, has robust data, and the paper is nicely organized and written. The data from these experiments is compelling, and the authors' claims and conclusions are nicely supported and justified by the data. The data support the hypothesis in the field that these RP3V neurons regulate the LH surge. Overall, these findings are important and novel, and lend valuable insight into the underlying neural mechanisms for neuroendocrine control of ovulation.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) LH levels were not measured in many mice or in robust temporal detail, such as every 30 or 60 min, to allow a more detailed comparison between the fine-scale timing of RP3V neuron activation with onset and timing of LH surge dynamics.

      (2) The authors report that the peak LH value occurred 3.5 hours after the first RP3V kisspeptin neuron oscillation. However, it is likely, and indeed evident from the 2 example LH patterns shown in Figures 3A-B, that LH values start to increase several hours before the peak LH. This earlier rise in LH levels ("onset" of the surge) occurs much closer in time to the first RP3V kisspeptin neuron oscillatory activation, and as such, the ensuing LH secretion may not be as delayed as the authors suggest.

      (3) The authors nicely show that there is some variation (~2 hours) in the peak of the first oscillation in proestrus females. Was this same variability present in OVX+E2 females, or was the variability smaller or absent in OVX+E2 versus proestrus? It is possible that the variability in proestrus mice is due to variability in the timing and magnitude of rising E2 levels, which would, in theory, be more tightly controlled and similar among mice in the OVX+E2 model. If so, the OVX+E2 mice may have less variability between mice for the onset of RP3V kisspeptin activity.

      (4) One concern regarding this study is the lack of data showing the specificity of the AAV and the GCaMP6s signals. There are no data showing that GCaMP6s is limited to the RP3V and is not expressed in other Kiss1 populations in the brain. Given that 2ul of the AAV was injected, which seems like a lot considering it was close to the ventricle, it is important to show that the signal and measured activity are specific to the RP3V region. Though the authors discuss potential reasons for the low co-expression of GCaMP6 and kisspeptin immunoreactivity, it does raise some concern regarding the interpretation of these results. The low co-expression makes it difficult to confirm the Kiss1 cell-specificity of the Cre-dependent AAV injections. In addition, if GFP (GCaMP6s) and kisspeptin protein co-localization is low, it is possible that the activation of these neurons does not coincide with changes in kisspeptin or that these neurons are even expressing Kiss1 or kisspeptin at the time of activation. It is important to remember that the study measures activation of the kisspeptin neuron, and it does not reveal anything specific about the activity of the kisspeptin protein.

      (5) One additional minor concern is that LH levels were not measured in the ovariectomized females during the expected time of the LH surge. The authors suggest that the lower magnitude of activation during the LH surge in these females, in comparison to proestrus females, may be the result of lower LH levels. It's hard to interpret the difference in magnitude of neuronal activation between EB-treated and proestrus females without knowing LH levels. In addition, it's possible that an LH surge did not occur in all EB-treated females, and thus, having LH levels would confirm the success of the EB treatment.

      (6) This kisspeptin neuron peak activity is abolished in ovariectomized mice, and estradiol replacement restored this activity, but only partially. Circulating levels of estradiol were not measured in these different setups, but the authors hypothesize that the lack of full restoration may be due to the absence of other ovarian signals, possibly progesterone.

      (7) Recordings in several mice show inter- and intra-variability in the time of peak onset. It is not shown whether this variability is associated with a similar variability in the timing of the LH surge onset in the recorded mice. The authors hypothesized that this variability indicates a poor involvement of the circadian input. However, no experiments were done to investigate the role of the (vasopressinergic-driven) circadian input on the kisspeptin neuron activation at the light/dark transition. Thus, we suggest that the authors be more tentative about this hypothesis.

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      Referee #3

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      Summary:

      Liu et al. provided evidence of the interaction between endocytosis and VAMP8-mediated endocytic recycling of clathrin-mediated endocytosis (CME) cargo through a knockdown approach combined with total internal reflection fluorescence (TIRF) microscopy, western blotting, and functional assays in a mammalian cell line system. They demonstrated that VAMP8 impairs the initial stages of CME, such as the initiation, stabilization, and invagination of clathrin-coated pits (CCPs). VAMP8 indirectly regulates CME by facilitating endocytic recycling. The depletion of VAMP8 alters endosomal recycling, as shown here by the transferrin receptor, towards lysosomal degradation, thereby inhibiting clathrin-coated vesicle (CCV) formation. Overall, I found this study to be highly engaging because of its elucidation of the unexpected role of R-Snare in influencing the levels of cargo proteins within the context of clathrin-mediated endocytosis (CME). This MS will be helpful for researchers in endocytosis and protein trafficking fields. It appears to me that VAMP8 interacts with multiple targets within the endo-lysosomal pathway, collectively influencing the clathrin-mediated endocytosis (CME). Therefore, the contribution of lysosomes in this context should be evaluated. This matter should be addressed experimentally and discussed in the MS before considering publication.

      Major comments:

      1. Figure 4D demonstrates that the knockdown of VAMP8 leads to an increase in lysosome numbers and lysosomal perinuclear clustering, as evidenced by LAMP1 staining (Figure 5A). Additionally, the knockdown of VAMP8 results in the downregulation of most surface receptors, as illustrated in Figure 3A, which typically follows the lysosomal degradation pathway. The observed reduction in TfR cargo could be attributable to the decreased presence of the Tfn Receptor in siVAMP8-treated cells compared to that in control cells. How do the authors explain this phenomenon? Upon reviewing these observations, I suggest that the mechanism outlined in the manuscript-specifically, "Depletion of VAMP8 skews endosomal recycling of CME cargo, exemplified here by transferrin receptor, toward lysosomal degradation, thereby inhibiting CCV formation"-may serve as a secondary rather than a primary cause. This can be ruled out by the following experiments:
        • Assessment of lysosomal biogenesis markers through RT-PCR or Western blotting following VAMP8 knockdown.
        • Assessment of transferrin receptor stability under VAMP8 knockdown conditions using cycloheximide.
        • Previous studies have indicated that perinuclear clustering of lysosomes is correlated with increased degradative activity. Therefore, assessing the lysosomal perinuclear index in the images presented in Figure 5A (LAMP1) effectively determines the presence or absence of this phenomenon.
      2. Given that VAMP8 is implicated in lysosomal fusion events, I hypothesized that VAMP8 undergoes degradation via the lysosomal pathway. However, Figure 4F indicates that there was no restoration of VAMP8 following leupeptin treatment. Could you please provide an explanation for this discrepancy or is it trafficked to proteasomal degradation pathway?
      3. Figure 5A and 5C demonstrate that the restoration of TfnR in siVAMP8 under leupeptin conditions was similar to the levels observed in the sicontrol without leupeptin. However, no enhancement in TfnR uptake (Figure 5F) was detected in cells treated with siVAMP8 under leupeptin treatment conditions. How can these observations be reconciled with each other?

      Minor comments:

      1. The manuscript does not provide details of the western blotting method and quantification criteria.
      2. Fig1A &B) - The siVAMP8 #1 blot indicates a reduction exceeding 90%, whereas the bar graph depicts a reduction of 70-80%. It is advisable to elucidate the quantification criteria in the Methods section to prevent potential confusion. Were the protein levels normalized to the loading control?
      3. Enhancing the readability of the graph could be achieved by labeling the Y-axis as either 'All CCP' or 'Bonafide CCP' of CME analysis graphs.
      4. The legends of panels 1M and N do not correlate with the corresponding figures. Need corrections.
      5. Fig 4D- Is the technique employed for electron immunogold staining utilizing a lysosome-specific antibody? How do the authors substantiate their assertion that the darkly stained structures are lysosomes and not other cellular compartments?
      6. Electron micrographs of siVAMP8 cells revealed the presence of dark-stained bodies near the plasma membrane. The implications of this observation should be explained in the discussion section.
      7. Fig5A- Provide the color code for the merged images.
      8. Fig5G- schematic needs to be improved to demonstrate the contribution of increased lysosomal content.

      Significance

      VAMP8 is an R-SNARE critical for late endosome/lysosome fusion and regulates exocytosis, especially in immune and secretory cells. It pairs with Q-SNAREs to mediate vesicle fusion, and its dysfunction alters immunity, inflammation, and secretory processes. This study revealed that the SNARE protein VAMP8 influences clathrin-mediated endocytosis (CME) by managing the recycling of endocytic cargo rather than being directly recruited to clathrin-coated vesicles. This study advances our understanding of cellular trafficking mechanisms and underscores the essential role of recycling pathways in maintaining membrane dynamics. This is an excellent piece of work, and the experiments were designed meticulously; however, the mechanism is not convincing enough at this point. This MS will surely benefit the general audience, specifically the membrane and protein trafficking and cell biology community.

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      Referee #2

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      The authors investigate the role of the SNARE protein VAMP8 in endocytic recycling and clathrin-mediated endocytosis (CME). Using siRNA knockdown, live-cell imaging, and recycling assays, they report that VAMP8 depletion impairs clathrin-coated pit (CCP) initiation, stabilisation, and invagination, thereby inhibiting CME. Furthermore, they suggest that VAMP8 knockdown promotes transferrin receptor (TfR) degradation and slows its recycling. Consistent with previous studies, knockdown of CALM expression inhibits CME, whereas overexpression of wild-type or L219S/M244K mutant CALM rescues CME.

      Major concerns:

      1. The authors claim their work "reshape our understanding" of CME by proposing that VAMP8 regulates CME through cargo recycling rather than by direct recruitment to clathrin-coated vesicles (CCVs). However, the concept that cargo recycling influences CME efficiency is not new. Prior work has established that cargo clustering stabilises CCPs and that cargo availability strongly impacts pit dynamics. Similarly, studies of CALM, Hrb, and SNAREs have implicated recycling and SNARE interactions in CME. The observation that reduced CME cargo expression (e.g. TfnR) in VAMP8-depleted cells impairs CME is therefore consistent with earlier findings, not a new paradigm. Moreover, the manuscript raises a conceptual paradox: if VAMP8 recruitment is dispensable for CME, why is VAMP8 recruited to CCPs, and why does its depletion produce such a striking phenotype?
      2. The authors note that VAMP8 knockdown reduces TfnR expression, which in turn reduces its surface levels (Figure 1N). Nevertheless, they report that VAMP8 knockdown also diminishes the endocytic efficiency of these TfRs already delivered to the plasma membrane (Figure 1M). Without rescue experiments - for example, re-expression of VAMP8 or TfnR - the specific roles of VAMP8 or cargo availability cannot be confirmed.
      3. The authors argue that overexpression of WT and L219S/M244K mutant CALM rescues CME, supporting the view that abolishing VAMP8 recruitment to CCVs does not impair CME. Yet previous studies have demonstrated that CALM is essential for CME through recruitment of multiple proteins, including the R-SNAREs VAMP8, VAMP3, and VAMP2. Miller et al. have shown a conserved interaction mechanism between CALM and these SNAREs. Thus, the finding that mutant CALM rescues CME does not sufficiently demonstrate that VAMP8 recruitment is unimportant. Furthermore, Sorkin's group showed that high levels of CALM overexpression inhibit transferrin and EGF receptor endocytosis and disrupt clathrin localisation in the trans-Golgi network (PMID: 10436022). In Figure S2, the authors clearly express CALM at levels far exceeding endogenous amounts. Such overexpression may itself perturb membrane trafficking, complicating interpretation of the rescue data.
      4. Most conclusions rely solely on TfR. Without examining additional receptors (e.g. EGFR, LDLR), the general claim regarding "cargo availability" remains unsubstantiated. The authors should quantify surface TfR levels following VAMP8 knockdown and/or leupeptin treatment. It also remains unclear why leupeptin treatment fails to induce TfR accumulation in lysosomes of control siRNA-treated cells.
      5. The manuscript presents several kymographs, but the appearance and disappearance of CCPs are difficult to discern. While this reviewer is not an expert in quantitative imaging analysis, it appears that in both siControl and siVAMP8 cells the tracks are either unusually persistent or very short-lived, with the only obvious differences being the brightness of the spots and tracks. Although some quantitative analyses are provided, the quality and representativeness of the imaging data remain unconvincing.
      6. Terms such as "productive" and "abortive" CCPs are used inconsistently and without clear definition in figure legends. In addition, the manuscript's claims of novelty, both in the Significance Statement and the main text, are overstated relative to prior literature.

      Significance

      General assessment: While the study shows that VAMP8 depletion negatively affects CME and TfR trafficking, the manuscript suffers from limited novelty, logical inconsistencies, and experimental shortcomings.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      We thank the reviewers and editors for this peer review. Following the editorial assessment and specific review comments, in this revision we have included new analysis to support the validity of the behavioral task (Reviewer #2). We have improved data presentation by including 1) data points from individual animals (Reviewer #1, #3), 2) updated histology showing the expression of hM4Di in LC neurons as well as LC terminals in the mPFC (Reviewer #3), and 3) more detailed descriptions of methodology and data analysis (Reviewer #1, #2, #3).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Planned t-tests should be performed in both control and experimental animals to determine if the number of trials needed to reach criterion on the ID is lower than on the ED. Based on the data analyses showing no difference among the control group, the data could be pooled to demonstrate that the task is valid. Reporting all p-values using 2 decimal points and standard language e.g., p < 0.001 would greatly improve the readability of the data. 

      Thank you for this suggestion. As pointed out by this reviewer, more trials to reach performance criterion in EDS than IDS is indicative of successful acquisition and switching of the attentional sets. Upon closer examination of the behavioral data, we exclude several sessions where more trials were taken in IDS than in EDS, and our conclusions that DREADD inhibition of the LC or LC input to the mPFC impaired rule switching in EDS remain robust (e.g., new Fig. 1e, 1h). We also pool control and test data (Fig. 1e, 1h, new Supp. Fig. 1a, 1b) to demonstrate the validity of this task (new Supp. Fig. 1c, IDS vs. EDS in the control group, 10 ± 1 trials vs. 16 ± 1 trials, P < 1e-3). The validity of set shifting is also supported by the new Fig. 1c.  

      We report p values using 2 decimal points and standard language as suggested by this reviewer.

      Relevant to the comments from Reviewer #1 in the public review, we now show individual data points on the bar charts (new Fig. 1e, 1h).  

      (2) It may also be helpful to provide the average time between CNO infusion and onset of the ED as well as information about when maximal effects are expected after these treatments.

      Systemic CNO injections were administered immediately after IDS, and we waited approximately one hour before proceeding to EDS. Maximal effects of systemic CNO activation were reported to occur after 30 minutes and last for at least 4-6 hours. Both control and test groups received the CNO injections in the same manner. This is now better described in Methods.  

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Add better histology images showing colocalization of TH and HM4Di. Quantification of colocalization would be optimal.

      We now include better histology images (new Fig. 1d) and have quantified the colocalization of TH and HM4Di in the main text (line 115-116).  

      (2) If possible, images showing HM4Di expression in mPFC axon terminals would be useful. If these are colocalized with TH immunostaining, that would increase confidence in their identity. This would be much more useful than the images provided in Figure 1C.

      We now include new image to show hM4Di expression (mCherry) in LC terminals in the mPFC (new Fig. 1f). However, due to technical limitations (species of the primary antibody), we did not co-stain with TH.

      (3) Include behavior of mice from the miniscope experiment in Figure 2 to show they are similar to those from Figure 1.

      This is now included in Supp. Fig. 1b.

      (4) More details about the processing and segmentation of miniscope data would be helpful (e.g., how many neurons were identified from each animal?). 

      We use standard preprocessing and segmentation pipelines in Inscopix data processing software (version 1.6), which includes modules for motion correction and signal extraction. Briefly, raw imaging videos underwent preprocessing, including a x4 spatial down sampling to reduce file size and processing time. No temporal down sampling was performed. The images were then cropped to eliminate post-registration borders and areas where cells were not visible. Prior to the calculation of the dF/F0 traces, lateral movement was corrected. For ROI identification, we used a constrained non-negative matrix factorization algorithm optimized for endoscopic data (CNMF-E) to extract fluorescence traces from ROIs. We identified 128 ± 31 neurons after manual selection, depending on recording quality and field of view. Number of neurons acquired from each animal are now included in Methods. This is now further elaborated in Methods (line 405415).  

      (5) Add more methodological detail for how cell tuning was analyzed, including how z-scoring was performed (across the entire session?), and how neurons in each category were classified. 

      We have expanded the Methods section to clarify how cell tuning was analyzed (line 419430). Calcium traces were z-scored on a per-neuron basis across the entire session. For each neuron, we computed trial-averaged activity aligned to specific task events (e.g., digging in one of the two ramekins available). A neuron was classified as responsive if its activity showed a significant difference (p < 0.05) between two conditions within the defined time window in the ROC analysis.

      (6) For data from Figure 2F it would be very useful to plot data from individual mice in addition to this aggregated representation.

      We now include data from individual mice in Supp. Table 1.

      (7) I think it would be helpful to move some parts of Figure S1 to the main Figure 1, in particular the table from S1A. 

      Fig. S1 is now part of the new Fig. 1.

      (8) Clarify whether Figure S2 is an independent replication, as implied, or whether the same test data is shown twice in two separate figures (In Figure 1b and Supplementary Figure 2).

      The test group in Fig. S2 (new Fig. S1) is the same as the test group in Fig. 1b (new Fig. 1e), but the control group is a separate cohort. This is now clarified in the figure legends.  

      (9) The authors should add a limitations section to the discussion where they specifically discuss the caveats involved in relating their results specifically to NE. This should include the possible involvement of co-transmitters and off-target expression of Cre in other populations.

      Thank you for this comment. Previous pharmacology and lesion studies showed that LC input or NE content in the mPFC was specifically required for EDS-type switching processes (Lapiz, M.D. et al., 2006; Tait, D.S. et al. 2007; McGaughy, J. et al. 2008), in light of which we interpret our mPFC neurophysiological effects with LC inhibition as at least partially mediated by the direct LC-NE input.  When discussing the limitations of our study, we now explicitly acknowledge the potential involvement of co-transmitters released by LC neurons (line 253-256).  

      (10) The authors should provide details about the TH antibody uses for IHC

      We now include more details in immunohistochemistry (line 384-388).

      (11) Throughout, it would be helpful to include datapoints from individual animals - these are included in some supplementary figures, but are missing in a number of the main plots.

      Reviewer #1 made a similar comment, and we now include individual data points in the figures (e.g., Fig. 1e, 1h).

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This study introduces a novel method for estimating spatial spectra from irregularly sampled intracranial EEG data, revealing cortical activity across all spatial frequencies, which supports the global and integrated nature of cortical dynamics. The study showcases important technical innovations and rigorous analyses, including tests to rule out potential confounds; however, the lack of comprehensive theoretical justification and assumptions about phase consistency across time points renders the strength of evidence incomplete. The dominance of low spatial frequencies in cortical phase dynamics continues to be of importance, and further elaboration on the interpretation and justification of the results would strengthen the link between evidence and conclusions.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The paper uses rigorous methods to determine phase dynamics from human cortical stereotactic EEGs. It finds that the power of the phase is higher at the lowest spatial phase.

      Strengths:

      Rigorous and advanced analysis methods.

      Weaknesses:

      The novelty and significance of the results are difficult to appreciate from the current version of the paper.

      (1) It is very difficult to understand which experiments were analysed, and from where they were taken, reading the abstract. This is a problem both for clarity with regard to the reader and for attribution of merit to the people who collected the data.

      We now explicitly state the experiments that were used, lines 715-716.

      (2) The finding that the power is higher at the lowest spatial phase seems in tune with a lot of previous studies. The novelty here is unclear and it should be elaborated better.

      It is not generally accepted in neuroscience that power is higher at lowest spatial frequencies, and recent research concludes that traveling waves at this scale may be the result of artefactual measurement (Orczyk et al., 2022; Hindriks et al., 2014; Zhigalov & Jensen,2023). The question we answer is therefore timely and a source of controversy to researchers analysing TWs in cortex. While, in our view, the previous literature points in the direction of our conclusions (notably the work of Freeman et. al. 2003; 2000; Barrie et al. 1996), it is not conclusive at the scale we are interested in, specifically >8cm, and certainly not convincing to the proponents of ‘artefactual measurement’.

      We have added to a sentence to make this explicit in the abstract, lines 20-22. Please also note previous text at the end of the introduction, lines 140-148 and in the first paragraph of the discussion, lines 563-569.

      I could not understand reading the paper the advantage I would have if I used such a technique on my data. I think that this should be clear to every reader.

      We have made the core part of the code available on github (line 1154), which should simplify adoption of the technique. We have urged, in the Discussion (lines 653-663), why habitual measurement of SF spectra is desirable, since the same task measured with EEG, sEEG or ECoG does not encompass the same spatial scales, and researchers may be comparing signals with different functional properties. Until reliable methods for estimating SF are available, not dependent on the layout of the recording array, data cannot be analysed to resolve this question. Publication of our results and methods will help this process along.

      (3) It seems problematic to trust in a strong conclusion that they show low spatial frequency dynamics of up to 15-20 cm given the sparsity of the arrays. The authors seem to agree with this concern in the last paragraph of page 12. 

      The new surrogate testing supports our conclusions. The sEEG arrays would not normally be a first choice to estimate SF spectra, for reasons of their sparsity, which may be why such estimates have not been done before. Yet, this is the research challenge that we sought to solve, and a problem for which there was no ready method to hand. Nevertheless, it is a problem that urgently needed to be solved given the current debate on the origin of large-scale TWs. We have now included detailed surrogate testing of real data plus varying strength model waves (Figure 6A and Supplementary Figure 4). We believe this should convince the reader that we are measuring the spatial frequency spectrum with sufficient accuracy to answer the central research question.

      They also say that it would be informative to repeat the analyses presented here after the selection of more participants from all available datasets. It begs the question of why this was not done. It should be done if possible.

      We have now doubled the number of participants in the main analyses. Since each participant comprises a test of the central hypothesis, now the hypothesis test now has 23 replications (Supplementary Figures 2 and 3). There were four failures to reach significance due to under-powered tests, i.e., not enough contacts. This is sufficient test of the hypothesis and, in our opinion, not the primary obstacle to scientific acceptance of our results. The main obstacle is providing convincing tests that the method is accurate, and this is what we have focussed on. Publication of python code and the detailed methods described here enable any interested researcher to extend our method to other datasets.

      (4) Some of the analyses seem not to exploit in full the power of the dataset. Usually, a figure starts with an example participant but then the analysis of the entire dataset is not as exhaustive. For example, in Figure 6 we have a first row with the single participants and then an average over participants. One would expect quantifications of results from each participant (i.e. from the top rows of GFg 6) extracting some relevant features of results from each participant and then showing the distribution of these features across participants. This would complement the subject average analysis.

      The results are now clearly split into sections, where we first deal with all the single participant analyses, then the surrogate testing to confirm the basic results, then the participant aggregate results (Figure 7 and Supplementary Figure 7). The participant aggregate results reiterate the basic findings for the single participants. The key finding is straightforward (SF power decreases with SF) and required only one statistical analysis per subject.

      (5) The function of brain phase dynamics at different frequencies and scales has been examined in previous papers at frequencies and scales relevant to what the authors treat. The authors may want to be more extensive with citing relevant studies and elaborating on the implications for them. Some examples below:

      Womelsdorf T, et alScience. 2007

      Besserve M et al. PloS Biology 2015

      Nauhaus I et al Nat Neurosci 2009

      We have added two paragraphs to the discussion, in response to the reviewer suggestion (lines 606-623). These paragraphs place our high TF findings in the context of previous research.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, the authors analyze the organization of phases across different spatial scales. The authors analyze intracranial, stereo-electroencephalogram (sEEG) recordings from human clinical patients. The authors estimate the phase at each sEEG electrode at discrete temporal frequencies. They then use higher-order SVD (HOSVD) to estimate the spatial frequency spectrum of the organization of phase in a data-driven manner. Based on this analysis, the authors conclude that most of the variance explained is due to spatially extended organizations of phase, suggesting that the best description of brain activity in space and time is in fact a globally organized process. The authors' analysis is also able to rule out several important potential confounds for the analysis of spatiotemporal dynamics in EEG.

      Strengths:

      There are many strengths in the manuscript, including the authors' use of SVD to address the limitation of irregular sampling and their analyses ruling out potential confounds for these signals in the EEG.

      Weaknesses:

      Some important weaknesses are not properly acknowledged, and some conclusions are overinterpreted given the evidence presented.

      The central weakness is that the analyses estimate phase from all signal time points using wavelets with a narrow frequency band (see Methods - "Numerical methods"). This step makes the assumption that phase at a particular frequency band is meaningful at all times; however, this is not necessarily the case. Take, for example, the analysis in Figure 3, which focuses on a temporal frequency of 9.2 Hz. If we compare the corresponding wavelet to the raw sEEG signal across multiple points in time, this will look like an amplitude-modulated 9.2 Hz sinusoid to which the raw sEEG signal will not correspond at all. While the authors may argue that analyzing the spatial organization of phase across many temporal frequencies will provide insight into the system, there is no guarantee that the spatial organization of phase at many individual temporal frequencies converges to the correct description of the full sEEG signal. This is a critical point for the analysis because while this analysis of the spatial organization of phase could provide some interesting results, this analysis also requires a very strong assumption about oscillations, specifically that the phase at a particular frequency (e.g. 9.2 Hz in Figure 3, or 8.0 Hz in Figure 5) is meaningful at all points in time. If this is not true, then the foundation of the analysis may not be precisely clear. This has an impact on the results presented here, specifically where the authors assert that "phase measured at a single contact in the grey matter is more strongly a function of global phase organization than local". Finally, the phase examples given in Supplementary Figure 5 are not strongly convincing to support this point.

      “using wavelets with a narrow frequency band … this analysis also requires a very strong assumption about oscillations, specifically that the phase at a particular frequency (e.g. 9.2 Hz in Figure 3, or 8.0 Hz in Figure 5) is meaningful at all points in time”

      Our method uses very short time-window Morlet wavelets to avoid the assumptions of oscillations, i.e., long-lasting sinusoids in the signal, in the sense of sinusoidal waveforms, or limit cycles extending in time. Cortical TWs can only last one or two cycles (Alexander et al., 2006), requiring methods that are compact in the time domain to avoid underreporting the desired phenomena. Additionally, the short time-window Morlet wavelets have low frequency resolution, so they are robust with respect to shifts in frequency between sites. We now discuss this issue explicitly in the Methods (lines 658-674). This means the phase estimation methods used in the manuscript precisely do not have the problem of assuming narrow-band oscillations in the signal. The methods are also robust to the exact shape of the waveforms; the signal needs be only approximately sinusoidal; to rise and fall. This means the Fourier variant we use does not introduce ringing artefact that can be introduced using longer timeseries methods, such as FFT.

      “This step makes the assumption that phase at a particular frequency band is meaningful at all times”

      This important consideration is entrenched in our choice of methods. By way of explanatory background, we point out that this step is not the final step. Aggregation methods can be used to distinguish between signal and noise. In the simple case, event-locked time-series of phase can be averaged. This would allow consistent (non-noise) phase relations to be preserved, while the inconsistent (including noise) phase relations would be washed out. This is part of the logic behind all such aggregation procedures, e.g., phase-locking, coherence. SVD has the advantage of capturing consistent relations in this sense, but without loss of information as occurs in averaging (up to the choice of number of singular vectors in the final model). Specifically, maps of the spatial covariances in phase are captured in the order of the variance explained. Noise (in the sense conveyed by the reviewer) in the phase measurements will not contribute to highest rank singular vectors. SVD is commonly used to remove noise, and that is one of its purposes here. This point can be seen by considering the very smooth singular vectors derived from MEG (Figure 3F) in this new version of the manuscript. These maps of phase gradients pull out only the non-noisy relations, even as their weighted sums reproduce any individual sample to any desired accuracy.

      To summarize, the next step (of incorporating the phase measure into the SVD) neatly bypasses the issue of non-meaningful phase quantification. This is one of the reasons why we do not undertake the spatial frequency estimates on the raw matrices of estimated phase.

      We now include a new sub-paragraph on this topic in the methods, lines 831-838.

      In addition, we have reworded the first description of the methods with a new paragraph at the end of the introduction, which better balances the description of the steps involved. The two sentences (lines 162-166 highlight the issue of concern to the reviewer.

      “there is no guarantee that the spatial organization of phase at many individual temporal frequencies converges to the correct description of the full sEEG signal.”

      The correct description of the full sEEG signal is beyond the scope of the present research. Our main goal, as stated, is to show that the hypothesis that ‘extra-cranial measurements of TWs is the result of projection from localized activity’ is not supported by the evidence of spatial patterns of activity in the cortex. Since this activity can be accessed as single frequency band (especially if localized sources create the large-scale patterns), analysis of SF on a TF-by-TF basis is sufficient.

      “This has an impact on the results presented here, specifically where the authors assert that "phase measured at a single contact in the grey matter is more strongly a function of global phase organization than local".

      We agree with the reviewer, even though we expect that the strongest influences on local phase are due to other cortical signals in the same band. The implicit assumption of the focus on bands of the same temporal frequency is now made explicit in the abstract (lines 31-34).

      A sentence addressing this issue had been added to the first paragraph of the discussion (lines 579-582).

      Inclusion of cross-frequency interactions would likely require a highly regular measurement array over the scales of interest here, i.e., the noise levels inherent in the spatial organization of sEEG contacts would not support such analyses.

      “Finally, the phase examples given in Supplementary Figure 5 are not strongly convincing to support this point.”

      We have removed the phase examples that were previously in Supplementary Figure 5 (and Figure 5 in the previous version of the main text), since further surrogate testing and modelling (Supplementary Figure 11) shows the LSVs from irregular arrays will inevitably capture mixtures of low and high SF signals. The final section of the Methods explains this effect in some detail. Instead, the new version of the manuscript relies on new surrogate testing to validate our methods.

      Another weakness is in the discussion on spatial scale. In the analyses, the authors separate contributions at (approximately) > 15 cm as macroscopic and < 15 cm as mesoscopic. The problem with the "macroscopic" here is that 15 cm is essentially on the scale of the whole brain, without accounting for the fact that organization in sub-systems may occur. For example, if a specific set of cortical regions, spanning over a 10 cm range, were to exhibit a consistent organization of phase at a particular temporal frequency (required by the analysis technique, as noted above), it is not clear why that would not be considered a "macroscopic" organization of phase, since it comprises multiple areas of the brain acting in coordination. Further, while this point could be considered as mostly semantic in nature, there is also an important technical consideration here: would spatial phase organizations occurring in varying subsets of electrodes and with somewhat variable temporal frequency reliably be detected? If this is not the case, then could it be possible that the lowest spatial frequencies are detected more often simply because it would be difficult to detect variable organizations in subsets of electrodes?

      The motivation for our study was to show that large-scale TWs measured outside the cortex cannot be the result of more localized activity being ‘projected up’. In this case, the temporal frequency of the artefactual waves would be the same as the localized sources, so the criticism does not apply.

      “while this point could be considered as mostly semantic in nature”

      We have changed the terminology in the paper to better coincide with standard usage. Macroscopic now refers to >1cm, while we refer to >8cm as large-scale.

      “15 cm is essentially on the scale of the whole brain, without accounting for the fact that organization in sub-systems may occur.”

      We can assume that subtle frequency variation (e.g., within an alpha phase binding) is greatest at the largest scales of cortex, or at least not less varying than measurements within regions. This means that not considering frequency-drift effects will not inflate low spatial frequency power over high spatial frequency power. Even so, the power spectrum we estimated is approximately 1/SF, so that unmeasured cross-frequency effects in binding (causal influences on local phase) would have to overcome the strength of this relation for this criticism to apply, which seems unlikely.

      “would spatial phase organizations occurring in varying subsets of electrodes and with somewhat variable temporal frequency reliably be detected?”

      See our previous comments about the low temporal frequency resolution of two cycle Morlet wavelets. The answer is yes, up to the range approximated by half-power bandwidth, which is large in the case of this method (see lines 760-764).

      Another weakness is disregarding the potential spike waveform artifact in the sEEG signal in the context of these analyses. Specifically, Zanos et al. (J Neurophysiol, 2011) showed that spike waveform artifacts can contaminate electrode recordings down to approximately 60 Hz. This point is important to consider in the context of the manuscript's results on spatial organization at temporal frequencies up to 100 Hz. Because the spike waveform artifact might affect signal phase at frequencies above 60 Hz, caution may be important in interpreting this point as evidence that there is significant phase organization across the cortex at these temporal frequencies.

      We have now added a sentence on this issue to the discussion (lines 600-602).

      However, our reading of the Zanos et al. paper is that the low temporal frequency (60-100Hz) contribution of spikes and spike patterns is negligible compared to genuine post-synaptic membrane fluctuations (see their Figure 3). These considerations come more strongly into play when correlations between LFP and spikes are calculated or spike triggered averaging is undertaken, since then a signal is being partly correlated with itself, or, partly averaged over the supposedly distinct signal with which it was detected.

      A last point is that, even though the present results provide some insight into the organization of phase across the human brain, the analyses do not directly link this to spiking activity. The predictive power that these spatial organizations of phase could provide for spiking activity - even if the analyses were not affected by the distortion due to the narrow-frequency assumption - remains unknown. This is important because relating back to spiking activity is the key factor in assessing whether these specific analyses of phase can provide insight into neural circuit dynamics. This type of analysis may be possible to do with the sEEG recordings, as well, by analyzing high-gamma power (Ray and Maunsell, PLoS Biology, 2011), which can provide an index of multi-unit spiking activity around the electrodes.

      “even if the analyses were not affected by the distortion due to the narrow-frequency assumption”

      See our earlier comment about narrow TFs; this is not the case in the present work.

      The spiking activity analysis would be an interesting avenue for future research. It appears the 1000Hz sampling frequency in the present data is not sufficient for method described in Ray & Maunsell (2011). On a related topic, we have shown that large-scale traveling waves in the MEG and 8cm waves in ECoG can both be used to predict future localized phase at a single sensor/contact, two cycles into the future (Alexander et al., 2019). This approach could be used to predict spiking activity, by combining it with the reviewer’s suggestion. However, the current manuscript is motivated by the argument that measured large-scale extra-cranial TWs are merely projections of localized cortical activity. Since spikes do not arise in this argument, we feel it is outside the scope of the present research. We have added this suggestion to the discussion as a potential line of future research (lines 686-688).

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors propose a method for estimation of the spatial spectra of cortical activity from irregularly sampled data and apply it to publicly available intracranial EEG data from human patients during a delayed free recall task. The authors' main findings are that the spatial spectra of cortical activity peak at low spatial frequencies and decrease with increasing spatial frequency. This is observed over a broad range of temporal frequencies (2-100 Hz).

      Strengths:

      A strength of the study is the type of data that is used. As pointed out by the authors, spatial spectra of cortical activity are difficult to estimate from non-invasive measurements (EEG and MEG) due to signal mixing and from commonly used intracranial measurements (i.e. electrocorticography or Utah arrays) due to their limited spatial extent. In contrast, iEEG measurements are easier to interpret than EEG/MEG measurements and typically have larger spatial coverage than Utah arrays. However, iEEG is irregularly sampled within the threedimensional brain volume and this poses a methodological problem that the proposed method aims to address.

      Weaknesses:

      The used method for estimating spatial spectra from irregularly sampled data is weak in several respects.

      First, the proposed method is ad hoc, whereas there exist well-developed (Fourier-based) methods for this. The authors don't clarify why no standard methods are used, nor do they carry out a comparative evaluation.

      We disagree that the method is ad hoc, though the specific combination of SVD and multiscale differencing is novel in its application to sEEG. The SVD method has been used to isolate both ~30cm TWs in MEG and EEG (Alexander et al., 2013; 2016), as well as 8cm waves in ECoG (Alexander et al., 2013; 2019). In our opening examples in the results now reiterate these previous related findings, by way of example analysis of MEG data (Figure 3). This will better inform the reader on the extent of continuity of the method from previous research.

      Standard FFT has been used after interpolating between EEG electrodes to produce a uniform array (Alamia et al., 2023). There exist well-developed Fourier methods for nonuniform grids, such as simple interpolation, the butterfly algorithm, wavefield extrapolation and multi-scale vector field techniques. However, the problems for which these methods are designed require non-sparse sampling or less irregular arrays. The sEEG contacts (reduced in number to grey matter contacts) are well outside the spatial irregularity range of any Fourierrelated methods that we are aware of, particularly at the broad range of spatial scales of interest here (2cm up to 24cm). This would make direct comparison of these specialized Fourier method to our novel methods, in the sEEG, something of a straw-man comparison.

      We now include a summary paragraph in the introduction, which is a brief review of Fourier methods designed to deal with non-uniform sampling (lines 159-162).

      Second, the proposed method lacks a theoretical foundation and hinges on a qualitative resemblance between Fourier analysis and singular value decomposition.

      We have improved our description of the theoretical relation between Fourier analysis and SVD (additional material at lines 839-861 and 910-922). In fact, there are very strong links between the two methods, and now it should be clearer that our method does not rely on a mere qualitative resemblance.

      Third, the proposed method is not thoroughly tested using simulated data. Hence it remains unclear how accurate the estimated power spectra actually are.

      We now include a new surrogate testing procedure, which takes as inputs the empirical data and a model signal (of known spatial frequency) in various proportions. Thus, we test both the impact of small amount of surrogate signal on the empirical signal, and the impact of ‘noise’ (in the form of a small amount of empirical signal) added to the well-defined surrogate signal.

      In addition, there are a number of technical issues and limitations that need to be addressed or clarified (see recommendations to the authors).

      My assessment is that the conclusions are not completely supported by the analyses. What would convince me, is if the method is tested on simulated cortical activity in a more realistic set-up. I do believe, however, that if the authors can convincingly show that the estimated spatial spectra are accurate, the study will have an impact on the field. Regarding the methodology, I don't think that it will become a standard method in the field due to its ad hoc nature and well-developed alternatives.

      Simulations of cortical activity do not seem the most direct way to achieve this goal. The first author has published in this area (Liley et. al., 1999; Wright et al., 2001), and such simulations, for both bulk and neuronally based simulations, readily display traveling wave activity at low spatial frequencies (indeed, this was the origin of the present scientific journey). The manuscript outlines these results in the introduction, as well as theoretical treatments proposing the same. Several other recent studies have highlighted the appearance of largescale travelling waves using connectome-based models (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.07.05.663278v1; https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-47860-x), which we do not include in the manuscript for reasons of brevity. In short, the emergence of TW phenomenon in models is partly a function of the assumptions put into them (i.e., spatial damping, boundary conditions, parameterization of connection fields) and would therefore be inconclusive in our view.

      Instead, we rely on the advantages provided by the way our central research question has been posed: that the spatial frequency distribution of grey matter signal can determine whether extra-cranial TWs are artefactual. The newly introduced surrogate methods reflect this advantage by directly adding ground truth spatial frequency components to individual sample measurements. This is a less expensive option than making cortical simulations to achieve the same goal.

      For the same reasons, we include testing of the methods using real cortical signals with MEG arrays (for which we could test the effects of increasing sparseness of contacts, test the effects of average referencing, and also construct surrogate time-series with alternative spectra).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Major points

      Methods, Page 18: "... using notch filters to remove the 50Hz line signal and its harmonics ...": The sEEG data appear to have been recorded in North America, where the line frequency is 60 Hz. Is this perhaps a typo, or was a 50 Hz notch filter in fact applied here (which would be a mistake)?

      This has now been fixed in the text to read 60Hz. This is the notch filter that was applied.

      Minor points

      (1) While the authors do state that they are analyzing the "spatial frequency spectrum of phase dynamics" in the abstract, this could be more clearly emphasized. Specifically, the difference between signal power at different spatial frequencies (as analyzed by a standard Fourier analysis) and the organization of phase in space (as done here) could be more clearly distinguished.

      We now address this point explicitly on lines 167-172. We now include at the end of the results additional analyses where the TF power is included. This means that the effects of including signal power at different temporal frequencies can be directly compared to our main analysis of the SF spectrum of the phase dynamics.

      (2) Figure 1A-C: It was not immediately clear what the lengths provided in these panels (e.g."> 40 cm cortex", "< 10 cm", "< 30 cm") were meant to indicate. This could be made clearer.

      Now fixed in the caption.

      (3) Figure 2A: If this is surrogate data to explain the analysis technique, it would be helpful to note explicitly at this point.

      This Figure has been completely reworked, and now the status of the examples (from illustrative toy models to actual MEG data) should be clearer.

      (4) Figure 4A: Why change from "% explained variance" for the example data in Figure 2C to arbitrary units at this point?

      This has now been explicitly stated in the methods (lines 1033-1036).

      (5) Page 15: "This means either the results were biased by a low pass filter, or had a maximum measurable...": If the authors mean that the low-pass filter is due to spatial blurring of neural activity in the EEG signal, it would be helpful to state that more directly at this point.

      Now stated directly, lines 567-568.

      (6) Page 23: "...where |X| is the complex magnitude of X...": The modulus operation is defined on a complex number, yet here is applied to a vector of complex numbers. If the operation is elementwise, it should be defined explicitly.

      ‘Elementwise’ is now stated explicitly (line 1020).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      In the submitted manuscript, the authors propose a method to estimate spatial (phase) spectra from irregularly sampled oscillatory cortical activity. They apply the method to intracranial (iEEG) data and argue that cortical activity is organized into global waves up to the size of the entire cortex. If true, this finding is certainly of interest, and I can imagine that it has profound implications for how we think about the functional organization of cortical activity.

      We have added a section to the discussion outlining the most radical of these implications: what does it mean to do source localization when non-local signals dominate? Lines 670-681.

      The manuscript is well-written, with comprehensive introduction and discussion sections, detailed descriptions of the results, and clear figures. However, the proposed method comprised several ad hoc elements and is not well-founded mathematically, its performance is not adequately assessed, and its limitations are not sufficiently discussed. As such, the study failed to convince (me) of the correctness of the main conclusions.

      We now have a direct surrogate testing of the method. We have also improved the mathematical explanation to show that the link between Fourier analysis and SVD is not ad hoc, but well understood in both literatures. We had addressed explicitly in the text all of the limitations raised by the reviewers.

      Major comments

      (1) The main methodological contribution of the study is summarized in the introduction section:

      "The irregular sampling of cortical spatial coordinates via stereotactic EEG was partly overcome by the resampling of the phase data into triplets corresponding to the vertices of approximately equilateral triangles within the cortical sheet."

      There exist well-established Fourier methods for handling irregularly sampled data so it is unclear why the authors did not resort to these and instead proposed a rather ad hoc method without theoretical justification (see next comment).

      We have re-reviewed the literature on non-uniform Fourier analysis. We now briefly review the Fourier methods for handling irregularly sampled data (lines 155-162) and conclude that none of the existing methods can deal with the degree of irregularity, and especially sparsity, found for the grey-matter sEEG contacts.

      (2) In the Appendix, the authors write:

      "For appropriate signals, i.e., those with power that decreases monotonically with frequency, each of the first few singular vectors, v_k, is an approximate complex sinusoid with wavenumber equal to k."

      I don't think this is true in general and if it is, there must be a formal argument that proves it. Furthermore, is it also true for irregularly sampled data? And in more than one spatial dimension? Moreover, it is also unclear exactly how the spatial Fourier spectrum is estimated from the SVD.

      In response to these reviewer queries, we now spend considerably more time in the conceptual set-up of the manuscript, giving examples of where SVD can be used to estimate the Fourier spectrum. We have now unpacked the word ‘appropriate’ and we are now more exact in our phrasing. This is laid out in lines 843-850 of the manuscript. In addition, the methods now describe the mathematical links between Fourier analysis and SVD (lines 851861 and 910-922).

      The authors write:

      "The spatial frequency spectrum can therefore be estimated using SVD by summing over the singular values assigned to each set of singular vectors with unique (or by binning over a limited range of) spatial frequencies. This procedure is illustrated in Figure 1A-C."

      First, the singular vectors are ordered to decreasing values of the corresponding singular values. Hence, if the singular values are used to estimate spectral power, the estimated spectrum will necessarily decrease with increasing spatial frequency (as can be seen in Figure 2C). Then how can traveling waves be detected by looking for local maxima of the estimated power spectra?

      TWs are not detected by looking for local maxima in the spectra. Our work has focussed on the global wave maps derived from the SVD of phase (i.e., k=1-3), which also explain most of the variance in phase. This is now mentioned in the caption to Figure 3 (lines 291-294).

      Second, how are spatial frequencies assigned to the different singular vectors? The proposed method for estimating spatial power spectra from irregularly sampled data seems rather ad hoc and it is not at all clear if, and under what conditions, it works and how accurate it is.

      The new version of the manuscript uses a combination of the method previously presented (the multi-scale differencing) and the method previously outlined in the supplementary materials (doing complex-valued SVD on the spatial vectors of phase). We hope that along with the additional expository material in the methods the new version is clearer and seems less ad hoc to the reviewer. Certainly, there are deep and well-understood links between Fourier analysis and SVD, and we hope we have brought these into focus now.

      (3) The authors define spatial power spectra in three-dimensional Euclidean space, whereas the actual cortical activity occurs on a two-dimensional sheet (the union of two topological 2spheres). As such, it is not at all clear how the estimated wavelengths in three-dimensional space relate to the actual wavelengths of the cortical activity.

      We define spatial power spectra on the folded cortical sheet, rather than Cartesian coordinates. We use geodesic distances in all cases where a distance measurement is required. We have included two new figures (Figure 5 and Supplementary Figure1) showing the mapping of the triangles onto the cortical sheet, which should bring this point home.

      (4) The authors' analysis of the iEEG data is subject to a caveat that is not mentioned in the manuscript: As a reference for the local field potentials, the average white-matter signal was used and this can lead to artifactual power at low spatial frequencies. This is because fluctuations in the reference signal are visible as standing waves in the recording array. This might also explain the observation that

      "A surprising finding was that the shape of the spatial frequency spectrum did not vary much with temporal frequency."

      because fluctuations in the reference signal are expected to have power at all temporal frequencies (1/f spectrum). When superposed with local activity at the recording electrodes, this leads to spurious power at low spatial frequencies. Can the authors exclude this interpretation of the results?

      The new version of the manuscript deals explicitly with this potential confound (lines 454467). First, the artefactual global synchrony due to the reference signal (the DC component in our spatial frequency spectra of phase) is at a distinct frequency from the lowest SF of interest here. The lowest spatial frequency is a function of the maximum spatial range of the recording array and not overlapping in our method with the DC component, despite the loss of SF resolution due to the noise of the spatial irregularity of the recording array. This can be seen from consideration of the SF tuning (Figure 4) for the MEG wave maps shown in Figure 3, and the spectra generated for sparse MEG arrays in Supplementary Figure 5. Additionally, this question led us to a series of surrogate tests which are now included in the manuscript. We used MEG to test for the effects of average reference, since in this modality the reference free case is available. The results show that even after imposing a strong and artefactual global synchrony, the method is highly robust to inflation of the DC component, which either way does not strongly influence the SF estimates in the range of interest (4c/m to 12c/m for the case of MEG).

      (5) Related to the previous comment: Contrary to the authors' claims, local field potentials are susceptible to volume conduction, particularly when average references are used (see e.g. https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(11)00883-X)

      Methods exist to mitigate these effects (e.g. taking first- or second-order spatial differences of the signals). I think this issue deserves to be discussed.

      We have reviewed this research and do not find it to be a problem. The authors cited by the reviewer were concerned with unacknowledged volume conduction up to 1 cm for LFP. The maximum spatial frequency we report here is 50c/m, or equivalent to 2cm. While the intercontact distance on the sEEG electrodes was 0.5cm, in practice the smallest equilateral triangles (i.e., between two electrodes) to be found in the grey matter was around 2cm linear size. We make no statements about SF in the 1cm range. We do now cite this paper and mention this short-range volume conduction (lines 602-605). The method of taking derivatives has the same problems as source localization methods. They remove both artefactual correlations (volume conduction) and real correlations (the low SF interactions of interest here). We mention this now at lines 667-669. In addition, our method to remove negative SF components from the LSVs ameliorates the effects of average referencing. There are now more details in the Methods about this step (lines 924-947), as well as a new supplementary figure illustrating its effects on signal with a known SF spectrum (MEG, supplementary Figure 6).

      (6) Could the authors add an analysis that excludes the possibility that the observed local maxima in the spectra are a necessary consequence of the analysis method, rather than reflecting true maxima in the spectra? A (possibly) similar effect can be observed in ordinary Fourier spectra that are estimated from zero-mean signals: Because the signals have zero mean, the power spectrum at frequency zero is close to zero and this leads to an artificial local maximum at low frequencies.

      We acknowledge the reviewer’s mathematical point. We do not agree that it could be an issue, though it is important to rule it out definitively. First, removing the DC component will only produce an artefactual low SF peak if the power at low SF is high. This may occur in the reviewer’s example only because temporal frequency has a ~1/f spectrum. If the true spectrum is flat, or increasing in power with f, no such artificial low SF will be produced (see Supplementary Figure 5G). Additionally,

      (1) The DC component is well separated from the low SF components in our method;

      (2) We now include several surrogate methods which show that our method finds the correct spectral distribution and is not just finding a maximum at low SFs due to the suggested effect (subtraction of the DC component). Analysis of separated wave maps in MEG (Figures 3 & 4) shows the expected peaks in SF, increasing in peak SF for each family of maps when wavenumber increases (roughly three k=1 maps, three k=2 etc.). A specific surrogate test for this query was also undertaken by creating a reverse SF spectrum in MEG phase data, in which the spectrum goes linearly with f over the SF range of interest, rather than the usual 1/f. Our method correctly finds the former spectrum (Supplementary Figure 5). Additionally, we tested for the effects of introducing the average reference and the effects of our method to remove the DC component of the phase SF spectrum (Supplementary Figure 6). We can definitively rule out the reviewer’s concern.

      A related issue (perhaps) is the observation that the location of the maximum (i.e. the peak spatial frequency of cortical activity) depends on array size: If cortical activity indeed has a characteristic wavelength (in the sense of its spectrum having a local maximum) would one not expect it to be independent of array size?

      This is only true when making estimates for relatively clean sinusoidal signals, and not from broad-band signals. Fourier analysis and our related SVD methods are very much dependent on maximum array size used to measure cortical signals. This is why the first frequency band (after the DC component) in Fourier analysis is always at a frequency equivalent to 1/array_size, even if the signal is known to contain lower frequency components. We now include a further illustration of this in Figure 3, a more detailed exposition of this point in the methods, and in Supplementary Figure 11 we provide a more detailed example of the relation between Fourier analysis and SVD when grids with two distinct scales are used.

      In short, it is not possible, mathematically, to measure wavelengths greater than the array size in broad-band data. This is now stated explicitly in the manuscript (lines 143-144). A common approach in Neuroscience research is to first do narrowband filtering, then use a method that can accurately estimate ‘instantaneous’ phase change, such as the Hilbert transform. This is not possible for highly irregular sEEG arrays.

      (7) The proposed method of estimating wavelength from irregularly sampled threedimensional iEEG data involves several steps (phase-extraction, singular value decomposition, triangle definition, dimension reduction, etc.) and it is not at all clear that the concatenation of all these steps actually yields accurate estimates.

      Did the authors use more realistic simulations of cortical activity (i.e. on the convoluted cortical sheet) to verify that the method indeed yields accurate estimates of phase spectra?

      We now included detailed surrogate testing, in which varying combinations of sEEG phase data and veridical surrogate wavelengths are added together.

      See our reply from the public reviewer comments. We assess that real neurophysiological data (here, sEEG plus surrogate and MEG manipulated in various ways) is a more accurate way to address these issues. In our experience, large scale TWs appear spontaneously in realistic cortical simulations, and we now cite the relevant papers in the manuscript (line 53).

      Minor comments

      (1) Perhaps move the first paragraph of the results section to the Introduction (it does not describe any results).

      So moved.

      (2) The authors write:

      "The stereotactic EEG contacts in the grey matter were re-referenced using the average of low-amplitude white matter contacts"

      Does this mean that the average is taken over a subset of white-matter contacts (namely those with low amplitude)? Or do the authors refer to all white-matter contacts as "low-amplitude"? And had contacts at different needles different references? Or where the contacts from all needles pooled?

      A subset of white-matter contacts was used for re-referencing, namely those 50% with lowest amplitude signals. This subset was used to construct a pooled, single, average reference. We have rephrased the sentences referring to this procedure to improve clarity (line 202 and 743745).

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Guy et al. explored the variation in the pathogenicity of carboxy-terminal frameshift deletions in the X-linked MECP2 gene. Loss-of-function variants in MECP2 are associated with Rett syndrome, a severe neurodevelopmental disorder. Although 100's of pathogenic MECP2 variants have been found in people with Rett syndrome, 8 recurrent point mutations are found in ~65% of disease cases, and frameshift insertions/deletions (indels) variants resulting in production of carboxy-terminal truncated (CTT) MeCP2 protein account for ~10% of cases. Many of these occur in a "deletion prone region" (DPR) between c.1110-1210, with common recurrent deletions c.1157-1197del (CTD1) and c.1164_1207del (CTD2). While two major protein functional domains have been defined in MeCP2, the methyl-binding domain (MBD) and the NCoR interacting domain (NID), the functional role of the carboxy-terminal domain (CTD, beyond the NID, predicted to have a disordered protein structure) has not been identified, and previous work by this group and others demonstrated that a Mecp2 "minigene" lacking the CTD retains MeCP2 function suggesting that the CTD is dispensable. This raises an important question: If the CTD is dispensable, what is the pathogenic basis of the various CTT frameshift variants? Prior work from this group demonstrated that genetically engineered mice expressing the CTD1 variant had decreased expression of Mecp2 RNA and MeCP2 protein and decreased survival, but those expressing the CTD2 variant had normal Mecp2 RNA and protein and survival. However, they noted that differences between the mouse and human coding sequences resulted in different terminal sequences between the two common CTD, with CTD1 ending in -PPX in both mouse and human, but CTD2 ending in -PPC in human but -SPX in mouse, and in the previous paper they demonstrated in humanized mouse ES cells (edited to have the same -PPX termination) containing the CTD2 deletion resulted in decreased Mecp2 RNA and protein levels. This previous work provides the underlying hypotheses that they sought to explore, which is that the pathological basis of disease causing CTD relates to the formation of truncated proteins that end with a specific amino acid sequence (-PPX), which leads to decreased mRNA and protein levels, whereas tolerated, non-pathogenic CTD do not lead to production of truncated proteins ending in this sequence and retain normal mRNA/protein expression.

      In this manuscript, they evaluate missense variants, in-frame deletions, and frame shift deletions within the DPR from the aggregated Genome Aggregated Database (gnomAD) and find that the "apparently" normal individuals within gnomAD had numerous tolerated missense variants and in-frame deletions within this region, as well as frameshift deletions (in hemizygous males) in the defined region. All of the gnomAD deletions within this region resulted in terminal amino acid sequences -SPRTX (due to +1 frameshift), whereas nearly all deletion variants in this region from people with Rett syndrome (from the Clinvar copy of the former RettBase database) had a terminal -PPX sequence, due to a +2 frameshift. They hypothesized that terminal proline codons causing ribosomal stalling and "nonsense mediated decay like" degradation of mRNA (with subsequent decreased protein expression) was the basis of the specific pathogenicity of the +2 frameshift variants, and that utilizing adenine base editors (ABE) to convert the termination codon to a tryptophan could correct this issue. They demonstrate this by engineering the change into mouse embryonic stem cell lines and mouse lines containing the CTD1 deletion and show that this change normalized Mecp2 mRNA and protein levels and mouse phenotypes. Finally, they performed an initial proof-of-concept in an inducible HEK cell line and showed the ability of targeted ABE to edit the correct adenine and cause production of the expected larger truncated Mecp2 protein from CTD1 constructs.

      The findings of this manuscript provide a level of support for their hypothesis about the pathogenicity versus non-pathogenicity of some MECP2 CTT intragenic deletions and provide preliminary evidence for a novel therapeutic approach for Rett syndrome; however, limitations in their analysis do not fully support the broader conclusions presented.

      Strengths:

      (1) Utilization of publicly available databases containing aggregated genetic sequencing data from adult cohorts (gnomAD) and people with Rett syndrome (Clinvar copy of RettBase) to compare differences in the composition of the resulting terminal amino acid sequences resulting from deletions presumed to be pathogenic (n+2) versus presumed to be tolerated (n+1).

      (2) Evaluation of a unique human pedigree containing an n+1 deletion in this region that was reported as pathogenic, with demonstration of inheritance of this from the unaffected father and presence within other unaffected family members.

      (3) Development of a novel engineered mouse model of a previously assumed n+1 pathogenic variant to demonstrate lack of detrimental effect, supporting that this is likely a benign variant and not causative of Rett syndrome.

      (4) Creation and evaluation of novel cell lines and mouse models to test the hypothesis that the pathogenicity of the n+2 deletion variants could be altered by a single base change in the frameshifted stop codon.

      (5) Initial proof-of-concept experiments demonstrating the potential of ABE to correct the pathogenicity of these n+2 deletion variants.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) While the use of the large aggregated gnomAD genetic data benefits from the overall size of the data, the presence of genetic variants within this collection does not inherently mean that they are "neutral" or benign. While gnomAD does not include children, it does include aggregated data from a variety of projects targeting neuropsychiatric (and other conditions), so there is information in gnomAD from people with various medical/neuropsychiatric conditions. The authors do make some acknowledgement of this and argue that the presence of intragenic deletion variants in their region of interest in hemizygous males indicates that it is highly likely that these are tolerated, non-pathogenic variants. Broadly, it is likely true that gnomAD MECP2 variants found in hemizygous males are unlikely to cause Rett syndrome in heterozygous females, it does not necessarily mean that these variants have no potential to cause other, milder, neuropsychiatric disorders. As a clear example, within gnomAD, there is a hemizygous male with the rs28934908 C>T variant that results in p.A140V (p.A152V in e1 transcript numbering convention). This pathogenic variant has been found in a number of pedigrees with an X-linked intellectual disability pattern, in which males have a clear neurodevelopmental disorder and heterozygous females have mild intellectual disability (see PMIDs 12325019, 24328834 as representative examples of a large number of publications describing this). Thus, while their claim that hemizygous deletion variants in gnomAD are unlikely to cause Rett syndrome, that cannot make the definitive statement that they are not pathogenic and completely benign, especially when only found in a very small number of individuals in gnomAD.

      (2) The authors focus exclusively on deletions within the "DPR", they define as between c.1110-1210 and say that these deletions account for 10% of Rett syndrome cases. However, the published studies that are the basis for this 10% estimate include all genetic variants (frameshift deletions, insertions, complex insertion/deletions, nonsense variants) resulting in truncations beyond the NID. For example, Bebbington 2010 (PMID: 19914908), which includes frameshift indels as early as c.905 and beyond c.1210. Further specific examples from RettBase are described below, but the important point is that their evaluation of only frameshift variants within c.1110-1210 is not truly representative of the totality of genetic variants that collectively are considered CTT and account for 10% of Rett cases.

      (3) The authors say that they evaluated the putative pathogenic variants contained within RettBase (which is no longer available, but the data were transferred to Clinvar) for all cases with Classic Rett syndrome and de novo deletion variants within their defined DPR domain. Looking at the data from the Clinvar copy of RettBase, there are a number (n=143) of c-terminal truncating variants (either frameshift or nonsense) present beyond the NID, but the authors only discuss 14 deletion frameshift variants in this manuscript. A number of these variants have molecular features that do not fall into the pathogenic classification proposed by the authors and are not addressed in the manuscript and do not support the generalization of the conclusions presented in this manuscript, especially the conclusion that the determination of pathogenicity of all c-terminal truncating variants can be determined according to their proposed n+2 rule, or that all of the 10% of people with Rett syndrome and c-terminal truncating variants could be treated by using a base editor to correct the -PPX termination codon.

      (4) The HEK-based system utilized is convenient for doing the initial experiments testing ABE; however, it represents an artificial system expressing cDNA without splicing. Canonical NMD is dependent on splicing, and while non-canonical "NMD-like" processes are less well understood, a concern is whether the artificial system used can adequately predict efficacy in a native setting that includes introns and splicing.

    2. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors scrutinized differences in C-terminal region variant profiles between Rett syndrome patients and healthy individuals and pinpointed that subtle genetic alternation can cause benign or pathogenic output, which harbours important implications in Rett syndrome diagnosis and proposes a therapeutic strategy. This work will be beneficial to clinicians and basic scientists who work on Rett syndrome, and carries the potential to be applied to other Mendelian rare diseases.

      Strengths:

      Well-designed genetic and molecular experiments translate genetic differences into functional and clinical changes. This is a unique study resolving subtle changes in sequences that give rise to dramatic phenotypic consequences.

      Weaknesses:

      There are many base-editing and protein-expression changes throughout the manuscript, and they cause confusion. It would be helpful to readers if authors could provide a simple summary diagram at the end of the paper.

      We thank Reviewer #1 for their encouraging comments. As suggested, we will include a summary figure of the genetic changes we have made, and the resulting expression and phenotypic consequences.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study by Guy and Bird and colleagues is a natural follow-up to their 2018 Human Molecular Genetics paper, further clarifying the molecular basis of C-terminal deletions (CTDs) in MECP2 and how they contribute to Rett syndrome. The authors combine human genetic data with well-designed experiments in embryonic stem cells, differentiated neurons, and knock-in mice to explain why some CTD mutations are disease-causing while others are harmless. They show that pathogenic mutations create a specific amino acid motif at the C-terminus, where +2 frameshifts produce a PPX ending that greatly reduces MeCP2 protein levels (likely due to translational stalling) whereas +1 frameshifts generating SPRTX endings are well tolerated.

      Strengths:

      This is a comprehensive and rigorous study that convincingly pinpoints the molecular mechanism behind CTD pathogenicity, with strong agreement between the cell-based and animal data. The authors also provide a proof of principle that modifying the PPX termination codon can restore MeCP2-CTD protein levels and rescue symptoms in mice. In addition, they demonstrate that adenine base editing can correct this defect in cultured cells and increase MeCP2-CTD protein levels. Overall, this is a well-executed study that provides important mechanistic and translational insight into a clinically important class of MECP2 mutations.

      Weaknesses:

      The adenine base editing to change the termination codon is shown to be feasible in generated cell lines, but has yet to be shown in vivo in animal models.

      We thank Reviewer #2 for their positive comments. We agree that an in vivo study demonstrating effective DNA base editing in our CTD-1 mouse model is the obvious next step, and this work is in progress. However, given the ever-increasing use of pre- and neonatal screening for genetic diseases, we felt it important to disseminate our findings as soon as possible. The family pedigree in Figure 3C is a clear demonstration of this need.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Guy et al. explored the variation in the pathogenicity of carboxy-terminal frameshift deletions in the X-linked MECP2 gene. Loss-of-function variants in MECP2 are associated with Rett syndrome, a severe neurodevelopmental disorder. Although 100's of pathogenic MECP2 variants have been found in people with Rett syndrome, 8 recurrent point mutations are found in ~65% of disease cases, and frameshift insertions/deletions (indels) variants resulting in production of carboxy-terminal truncated (CTT) MeCP2 protein account for ~10% of cases. Many of these occur in a "deletion prone region" (DPR) between c.1110-1210, with common recurrent deletions c.1157-1197del (CTD1) and c.1164_1207del (CTD2). While two major protein functional domains have been defined in MeCP2, the methyl-binding domain (MBD) and the NCoR interacting domain (NID), the functional role of the carboxy-terminal domain (CTD, beyond the NID, predicted to have a disordered protein structure) has not been identified, and previous work by this group and others demonstrated that a Mecp2 "minigene" lacking the CTD retains MeCP2 function suggesting that the CTD is dispensable. This raises an important question: If the CTD is dispensable, what is the pathogenic basis of the various CTT frameshift variants? Prior work from this group demonstrated that genetically engineered mice expressing the CTD1 variant had decreased expression of Mecp2 RNA and MeCP2 protein and decreased survival, but those expressing the CTD2 variant had normal Mecp2 RNA and protein and survival. However, they noted that differences between the mouse and human coding sequences resulted in different terminal sequences between the two common CTD, with CTD1 ending in -PPX in both mouse and human, but CTD2 ending in -PPC in human but -SPX in mouse, and in the previous paper they demonstrated in humanized mouse ES cells (edited to have the same -PPX termination) containing the CTD2 deletion resulted in decreased Mecp2 RNA and protein levels. This previous work provides the underlying hypotheses that they sought to explore, which is that the pathological basis of disease causing CTD relates to the formation of truncated proteins that end with a specific amino acid sequence (-PPX), which leads to decreased mRNA and protein levels, whereas tolerated, non-pathogenic CTD do not lead to production of truncated proteins ending in this sequence and retain normal mRNA/protein expression.

      In this manuscript, they evaluate missense variants, in-frame deletions, and frame shift deletions within the DPR from the aggregated Genome Aggregated Database (gnomAD) and find that the "apparently" normal individuals within gnomAD had numerous tolerated missense variants and in-frame deletions within this region, as well as frameshift deletions (in hemizygous males) in the defined region. All of the gnomAD deletions within this region resulted in terminal amino acid sequences -SPRTX (due to +1 frameshift), whereas nearly all deletion variants in this region from people with Rett syndrome (from the Clinvar copy of the former RettBase database) had a terminal -PPX sequence, due to a +2 frameshift. They hypothesized that terminal proline codons causing ribosomal stalling and "nonsense mediated decay like" degradation of mRNA (with subsequent decreased protein expression) was the basis of the specific pathogenicity of the +2 frameshift variants, and that utilizing adenine base editors (ABE) to convert the termination codon to a tryptophan could correct this issue. They demonstrate this by engineering the change into mouse embryonic stem cell lines and mouse lines containing the CTD1 deletion and show that this change normalized Mecp2 mRNA and protein levels and mouse phenotypes. Finally, they performed an initial proof-of-concept in an inducible HEK cell line and showed the ability of targeted ABE to edit the correct adenine and cause production of the expected larger truncated Mecp2 protein from CTD1 constructs.

      The findings of this manuscript provide a level of support for their hypothesis about the pathogenicity versus non-pathogenicity of some MECP2 CTT intragenic deletions and provide preliminary evidence for a novel therapeutic approach for Rett syndrome; however, limitations in their analysis do not fully support the broader conclusions presented.

      Strengths:

      (1) Utilization of publicly available databases containing aggregated genetic sequencing data from adult cohorts (gnomAD) and people with Rett syndrome (Clinvar copy of RettBase) to compare differences in the composition of the resulting terminal amino acid sequences resulting from deletions presumed to be pathogenic (n+2) versus presumed to be tolerated (n+1).

      (2) Evaluation of a unique human pedigree containing an n+1 deletion in this region that was reported as pathogenic, with demonstration of inheritance of this from the unaffected father and presence within other unaffected family members.

      (3) Development of a novel engineered mouse model of a previously assumed n+1 pathogenic variant to demonstrate lack of detrimental effect, supporting that this is likely a benign variant and not causative of Rett syndrome.

      (4) Creation and evaluation of novel cell lines and mouse models to test the hypothesis that the pathogenicity of the n+2 deletion variants could be altered by a single base change in the frameshifted stop codon.

      (5) Initial proof-of-concept experiments demonstrating the potential of ABE to correct the pathogenicity of these n+2 deletion variants.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) While the use of the large aggregated gnomAD genetic data benefits from the overall size of the data, the presence of genetic variants within this collection does not inherently mean that they are "neutral" or benign. While gnomAD does not include children, it does include aggregated data from a variety of projects targeting neuropsychiatric (and other conditions), so there is information in gnomAD from people with various medical/neuropsychiatric conditions. The authors do make some acknowledgement of this and argue that the presence of intragenic deletion variants in their region of interest in hemizygous males indicates that it is highly likely that these are tolerated, non-pathogenic variants. Broadly, it is likely true that gnomAD MECP2 variants found in hemizygous males are unlikely to cause Rett syndrome in heterozygous females, it does not necessarily mean that these variants have no potential to cause other, milder, neuropsychiatric disorders. As a clear example, within gnomAD, there is a hemizygous male with the rs28934908 C>T variant that results in p.A140V (p.A152V in e1 transcript numbering convention). This pathogenic variant has been found in a number of pedigrees with an X-linked intellectual disability pattern, in which males have a clear neurodevelopmental disorder and heterozygous females have mild intellectual disability (see PMIDs 12325019, 24328834 as representative examples of a large number of publications describing this). Thus, while their claim that hemizygous deletion variants in gnomAD are unlikely to cause Rett syndrome, that cannot make the definitive statement that they are not pathogenic and completely benign, especially when only found in a very small number of individuals in gnomAD.

      (2) The authors focus exclusively on deletions within the "DPR", they define as between c.1110-1210 and say that these deletions account for 10% of Rett syndrome cases. However, the published studies that are the basis for this 10% estimate include all genetic variants (frameshift deletions, insertions, complex insertion/deletions, nonsense variants) resulting in truncations beyond the NID. For example, Bebbington 2010 (PMID: 19914908), which includes frameshift indels as early as c.905 and beyond c.1210. Further specific examples from RettBase are described below, but the important point is that their evaluation of only frameshift variants within c.1110-1210 is not truly representative of the totality of genetic variants that collectively are considered CTT and account for 10% of Rett cases.

      (3) The authors say that they evaluated the putative pathogenic variants contained within RettBase (which is no longer available, but the data were transferred to Clinvar) for all cases with Classic Rett syndrome and de novo deletion variants within their defined DPR domain. Looking at the data from the Clinvar copy of RettBase, there are a number (n=143) of c-terminal truncating variants (either frameshift or nonsense) present beyond the NID, but the authors only discuss 14 deletion frameshift variants in this manuscript. A number of these variants have molecular features that do not fall into the pathogenic classification proposed by the authors and are not addressed in the manuscript and do not support the generalization of the conclusions presented in this manuscript, especially the conclusion that the determination of pathogenicity of all c-terminal truncating variants can be determined according to their proposed n+2 rule, or that all of the 10% of people with Rett syndrome and c-terminal truncating variants could be treated by using a base editor to correct the -PPX termination codon.

      (4) The HEK-based system utilized is convenient for doing the initial experiments testing ABE; however, it represents an artificial system expressing cDNA without splicing. Canonical NMD is dependent on splicing, and while non-canonical "NMD-like" processes are less well understood, a concern is whether the artificial system used can adequately predict efficacy in a native setting that includes introns and splicing.

      We thank reviewer #3 for their constructive comments. A number of these relate to our analysis of databases of pathogenic (RettBASE) and non-pathogenic (gnomAD) databases. We disagree with their assertion that we are looking at only a small subset of RTT CTD mutations. We detail 14 different RTT CTDs in the manuscript, but these include the 3 most frequently occurring, which alone account for 121 RTT cases in RettBASE.

      We used the original RettBASE database for our analysis, which contained significantly more information than was transferred to Clinvar. We may not have made this sufficiently clear and will remedy this during revision of the manuscript.

      We stress that RettBASE contained many non-RTT causing mutations. For this reason, we employed stringent selection criteria to define a high-confidence set of RTT CTD alleles. Importantly, this set was chosen before any investigation of reading frame or C-terminal amino acid sequence. Our stringent set was selected based on three criteria: location within the C-terminal deletion prone region (CT-DPR), a diagnosis of Classical RTT and at least one case where that mutation had been shown to be absent from both parents (i.e. that it was a de novo mutation). This excluded a large number of CTD alleles which fitted the +2 frameshift/PPX ending category as well as some in other categories. There are good reasons to believe that the vast majority of genuinely pathogenic RTT CTD mutations do fall into this class.

      Concerning gnomAD CTDs, we chose to restrict our detailed analysis to those which are present in the hemizygous state, to exclude individuals which mask a pathogenic mutation due to skewed X-inactivation. Data from all zygosities are shown in Fig. 3, SF1.

      We will revise the manuscript to include tables of all extracted data relevant to this region, from both gnomAD and RettBASE, along with analysis of a less stringent set of RettBASE CTDs for reading frame and C-terminal amino acid sequence. We hope this will make clear the strength of the evidence for our conclusions.

      We agree with Reviewer #3 that inclusions of variants in gnomAD does not exclude the possibility that they may cause medical/psychiatric conditions other than RTT. This point is already mentioned in the Discussion, but we plan to emphasise it further. The pedigree included in the paper, as well as others that we have learned of, argue that loss of the C-terminus of MeCP2 has few if any phenotypic consequences, but more cases are needed to robustly assess this conclusion.

      We disagree that our HEK cell-based system is not suitable for testing efficacy of reagents for use on endogenous alleles in vivo. The editing process is not dependent on splicing, and we have shown in this manuscript that making this single base change has the same effect on an endogenous knock-in allele (CTD1 X>W) or a cDNA-based transgene (Flp-In T-REx CTD1 + base editing), namely, to increase the amount of truncated MeCP2 produced.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      I have completed a thorough review of this paper, which seeks to use the large datasets of species occurrences available through GBIF to estimate variation in how large numbers of plant and animal species are associated with urbanization throughout the world, describing what they call the "species urbanness distribution" or SUD. They explore how these SUDs differ between regions and different taxonomic levels. They then calculate a measure of urban tolerance and seek to explore whether organism size predicts variation in tolerance among species and across regions.

      The study is impressive in many respects. Over the course of several papers, Callaghan and coauthors have been leaders in using "big [biodiversity] data" to create metrics of how species' occurrence data are associated with urban environments, and in describing variation in urban tolerance among taxa and regions. This work has been creative, novel, and it has pushed the boundaries of understanding how urbanization affects a wide diversity of taxa. The current paper takes this to a new level by performing analyses on over 94000 observations from >30,000 species of plants and animals, across more than 370 plant and animal taxonomic families. All of these analyses were focused on answering two main questions:

      (1) What is the shape of species' urban tolerance distributions within regional communities?

      (2) Does body size consistently correlate with species' urban tolerance across taxonomic groups and biogeographic contexts?

      Overall, I think the questions are interesting and important, the size and scope of the data and analyses are impressive, and this paper has a potentially large contribution to make in pushing forward urban macroecology specifically and urban ecology and evolution more generally.

      Despite my enthusiasm for this paper and its potential impact, there are aspects that could be improved, and I believe the paper requires major revision.

      Some of these revisions ideally involve being clearer about the methodology or arguments being made. In other cases, I think their metrics of urban tolerance are flawed and need to be rethought and recalculated, and some of the conclusions are inaccurate. I hope the authors will address these comments carefully and thoroughly. I recognize that there is no obligation for authors to make revisions. However, revising the paper along the lines of the comments made below would increase the impact of the paper and its clarity to a broad readership.

      Major Comments:

      (1) Subrealms

      Where does the concept of "subrealms" come from? No citation is given, and it could be said that this sounds like an idea straight out of Middle Earth. How do subrealms relate to known bioclimatic designations like Koppen Climate classifications, which would arguably be more appropriate? Or are subrealms more socio-ecologically oriented? From what I can tell, each subrealm lumps together climatically diverse areas. It might be better and more tractable to break things in terms of continents, as the rationale for subrealms is unclear, and it makes the analyses and results more confusing. The authors rationalized the use of subrealms to account for potential intraspecific differences in species' response to urbanization, but that is never a core part of the questions or interpretation in the paper, and averaging across subrealms also accounts for intraspecific variation. Another issue with using the subrealm approach is that the authors only included a species if it had 100 observations in a given subrealm, leading to a focus on only the most common species, which may be biased in their SUD distribution. How many more species would be included if they did their analysis at the continental or global scale, and would this change the shape of SUDs?

      (2) Methods - urban score

      The authors describe their "urban score" as being calculated as "the mean of the distribution of VIIRS values as a relative species specific measure of a response to urban land cover."

      I don't understand how this is a "relative species-specific measure". What is it relative to? Figures S4 and S5 show the mean distribution of VIIRS for various taxa, and this mean looks to be an absolute measure. Mean VIIRS for a given species would be fine and appropriate as an "urban score", but the authors then state in the next sentence: "this urban score represents the relative ranking of that species to other species in response to urban land cover".

      That doesn't follow from the description of how this is calculated. Something is missing here. Please clarify and add an explicit equation for how the urban score is calculated because the text is unclear and confusing.

      (3) Methods - urban tolerance

      How the authors are defining and calculating tolerance is unclear, confusing, and flawed in my opinion.

      Tolerance is a common concept in ecology, evolution, and physiology, typically defined as the ability for an organism to maintain some measure of performance (e.g., fitness, growth, physiological homeostasis) in the presence versus absence of some stressor. As one example, in the herbivory literature, tolerance is often measured as the absolute or relative difference in fitness of plants that are damaged versus undamaged (e.g., https://academic.oup.com/evolut/article/62/9/2429/6853425?login=true).

      On line 309, after describing the calculation of urban scores across subrealms, they write: "Therefore, a species could be represented across multiple subrealms with differing measures of urban tolerance (Fig. S4). Importantly, this continuous metric of urban tolerance is a relative measure of a species' preference, or affinity, to urban areas: it should be interpreted only within each subrealm".

      This is problematic on several fronts. First, the authors never define what they mean by the term "tolerance". Second, they refer to urban tolerance throughout the paper, but don't describe the calculation until lines 315-319, where they write (text in [ ] is from the reviewer):

      "Within each subrealm, we further accounted for the potential of different levels of urbanization by scaling each species' urban score by subtracting the mean VIIRS of all observations in the subrealm (this value is hereafter referred to as urban tolerance). This 'urban tolerance' (Fig. S5) value can be negative - when species under-occupy urban areas [relative to the average across all species] suggesting they actively avoid them-or positive-when species over-occupy urban areas [relative to the average across all species] suggesting they prefer them (i.e., ranging from urban avoiders to urban exploiters, respectively).<br /> They are taking a relativized urban score and then subtracting the mean VIIRS of all observations across species in a subrealm. How exactly one interprets the magnitude isn't clear and they admit this metric is "not interpretative across subrealms".

      This is not a true measure of tolerance, at least not in the conventional sense of how tolerance is typically defined. The problem is that a species distribution isn't being compared to some metric of urbanness, but instead it is relative to other species' urban scores, where species may, on average, be highly urban or highly nonurban in their distribution, and this may vary from subrealm to subrealm. A measure of urban tolerance should be independent of how other species are responding, and should be interpretable across subrealms, continents, and the globe.

      I propose the authors use one of two metrics of urban tolerance:

      (i) Absolute Urban Tolerance = Mean VIIRS of species_i - Mean VIIRS of city centers<br /> Here, the mean VIIRS of city centers could be taken from the center of multiple cities throughout a subrealm, across a continent, or across the world. Here, the units are in the original VIIRS units where 0 would correspond to species being centered on the most extreme urban habitats, and the most extreme negative values would correspond to species that occupy the most non-urban habitats (i.e., no artificial light at night). In essence, this measure of tolerance would quantify how far a species' distribution is shifted relative to the most highly urbanized habitat available.

      (ii) % Urban Tolerance = (Mean VIIRS of species_i - Mean VIIRS of city centers)/MeanVIIRS of city centers * 100%<br /> This metric provides a % change in species mean VIIRS distribution relative to the most urban habitats. This value could theoretically be negative or positive, but will typically be negative, with -100% being completely non-urban, and 0% being completely urban tolerant.

      Both of these metrics can be compared across the world, as it would provide either absolute (equation 1) or relative (equation 2) metrics of urban tolerance that are comparable and easily interpretable in any region.

      In summary, the definition of tolerance should be clear, the metric should be a true measure of tolerance that is comparable across regions, and an equation should be given.

      (4) Figure 1: The figure does not stand alone. For example, what is the hypothesis for thermophily or the temperature-size rule? The authors should expand the legend slightly to make the hypotheses being illustrated clearer.

      (5) SUDs: I don't agree with the conclusion given on line 83 ("pattern was consistent across subrealms and several taxonomic levels") or in the legend of Figure 2 ("there were consistent patterns for kingdoms, classes, and orders, as shown by generally similar density histograms shapes for each of these").

      The shapes of the curves are quite different, especially for the two Kingdoms and the different classes. I agree they are relatively consistent for the different taxonomic Orders of insects.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, Qiu et al. developed a novel spatial navigation task to investigate the formation of multi-scale representations in the human brain. Over multiple sessions and diverse tasks, participants learned the location of 32 objects distributed across 4 different rooms. The key task was a "judgement of relative direction" task delivered in the scanner, which was designed to assess whether object representations reflect local (within-room) or global (across-room) similarity structures. In between the two scanning sessions, participants received extensive further training. The goal of this manipulation was to test how spatial representations change with learning.

      Strengths:

      The authors designed a very comprehensive set of tasks in virtual reality to teach participants a novel spatial map. The spatial layout is well-designed to address the question of interest in principle. Participants were trained in a multi-day procedure, and representations were assessed twice, allowing the authors to investigate changes in the representation over multiple days.

      Weaknesses:

      Unfortunately, I see multiple problems with the experimental design that make it difficult to draw conclusions from the results.

      (1) In the JRD task (the key task in this paper), participants were instructed to imagine standing in front of the reference object and judge whether the second object was to their left or right. The authors assume that participants solve this task by retrieving the corresponding object locations from memory, rotating their imagined viewpoint and computing the target object's relative orientation. This is a challenging task, so it is not surprising that participants do not perform particularly well after the initial training (performance between 60-70% accuracy). Notably, the authors report that after extensive training, they reached more than 90% accuracy.

      However, I wonder whether participants indeed perform the task as intended by the authors, especially after the second training session. A much simpler behavioural strategy is memorising the mapping between a reference object and an associated button press, irrespective of the specific target object. This basic strategy should lead to quite high success rates, since the same direction is always correct for four of the eight objects (the two objects located at the door and the two opposite the door). For the four remaining objects, the correct button press is still the same for four of the six target objects that are not located opposite to the reference object. Simply memorising the button press associated with each reference object should therefore lead to a high overall task accuracy without the necessity to mentally simulate the spatial geometry of the object relations at all.

      I also wonder whether the random effect coefficients might reflect interindividual differences in such a strategy shift - someone who learnt this relationship between objects and buttons might show larger increases in RTs compared to someone who did not.

      (2) On a related note, the neural effect that appears to reflect the emergence of a global representation might be more parsimoniously explained by the formation of pairwise associations between reference and target objects. Since both objects always came from the same room, an RDM reflecting how many times an object pair acted as a reference-target pair will correlate with the categorical RDM reflecting the rooms corresponding to each object. Since the categorical RDM is highly correlated with the global RDM, this means that what the authors measure here might not reflect the formation of a global spatial map, but simply the formation of pairwise associations between objects presented jointly.

      (3) In general, the authors attribute changes in neural effects to new learning. But of course, many things can change between sessions (expectancy, fatigue, change in strategy, but also physiological factors...). Baseline phsiological effects are less likely to influence patterns of activity, so the RSA analyses should be less sensitive to this problem, but especially the basic differences in activation for the contrast of post-learning > pre-learning stages in the judgment of relative direction (JRD) task could in theory just reflect baseline differences in blood oxygenation, possibly due to differences in time of day, caffeine intake, sleep, etc. To really infer that any change in activity or representation is due to learning, an active control would have been great.

      (4) RSA typically compares voxel patterns associated with specific stimuli. However, the authors always presented two objects on the screen simultaneously. From what I understand, this is not considered in the analysis ("The β-maps for each reference object were averaged across trials to create an overall β-map for that object."). Furthermore, participants were asked to perform a complex mental operation on each trial ("imagine standing at A, looking at B, then perform the corresponding motor response"). Assuming that participants did this (although see points 1 and 2 above), this means that the resulting neural representation likely reflects a mixture of the two object representations, the mental transformation and the corresponding motor command, and possibly additionally the semantic and perceptual similarity between the two presented words. This means that the βs taken to reflect the reference object representation must be very noisy.

      This problem is aggravated by two additional points. Firstly, not all object pairs occurred equally often, because only a fraction of all potential pairs were sampled. If the selection of the object pairs is not carefully balanced, this could easily lead to sampling biases, which RSA is highly sensitive to.

      Secondly, the events in the scanner are not jittered. Instead, they are phase-locked to the TR (1.2 sec TR, 1.2 sec fixation, 4.8 sec stimulus presentation). This means that every object onset starts at the same phase of the image acquisition, making HRF sampling inefficient and hurting trial-wise estimation of betas used for the RSA. This likely significantly weakens the strength of the neural inferences that are possible using this dataset.

      (5) It is not clear why the authors focus their report of the results in the main manuscript on the preselected ROIs instead of showing whole-brain results. This can be misleading, as it provides the false impression that the neural effects are highly specific to those regions.

      (6) I am missing behavioural support for the authors' claims.

      Overall, I am not convinced that the main conclusion that global spatial representations emerge during learning is supported by the data. Unfortunately, I think there are some fundamental problems in the experimental design that might make it difficult to address the concerns.

      However, if the authors can provide convincing evidence for their claims, I think the paper will have an impact on the field. The question of how multi-scale representations are represented in the human brain is a timely and important one.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Qui and colleagues studied human participants who learned about the locations of 32 different objects located across 4 different rooms in a common spatial environment. Participants were extensively trained on the object locations, and fMRI scans were done during a relative direction judgement task in a pre- and post-session. Using RSA analysis, the authors report that the hippocampus increased global relative to local representations with learning; the RSC showed a similar pattern, but also increased effects of both global and local information with time.

      Strengths:

      (1) The manuscript asks a generally interesting question concerning the learning of global versus local spatial information.

      (2) The virtual environment task provides a rich and naturalistic spatial setting for participants, and the setup with 32 objects across 4 rooms is interesting.

      (3) The within-subject design and use of verbal cues for spatial retrieval is elegant .

      Weaknesses:

      (1) My main concern is that the global Euclidean distances and room identity are confounded. I fear this means that all neural effects in the RSA could be alternatively explained by associations to the visual features of the rooms that build up over time.

      (2) The direction judgement task is not very informative about cognitive changes, as only objects in a room are compared. The setup also discourages global learning, and leaves unclear whether participants focussed on learning the left/right relationships required by the task.

      (3) With N = 23, the power is low, and the effects are weak.

      (4) It appears no real multiple comparisons correction is done for the ROI based approach, and significance across ROIs is not tested directly.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Qui et al. explores the issue of spatial learning in both local (rooms) and global (connected rooms) environments. The authors perform a pointing task, which involves either pressing the right or left button in the scanner to indicate where an object is located relative to another object. Participants are repeatedly exposed to rooms over sessions of learning, with one "pre" and one "post" learning session. The authors report that the hippocampus shifted from lower to higher RSA for the global but not the local environment after learning. RSC and OFC showed higher RSA for global object pointing. Other brain regions also showed effects, including ACC, which seemed to show a similar pattern as the hippocampus, as well as other regions shown in Figure S5. The authors attempt to tie their results in with local vs. global spatial representations.

      Strengths:

      Extensive testing of subjects before and after learning a spatial environment, with data suggesting that there may be fMRI codes sensitive to both global and local codes. Behavioral data suggest that subjects are performing well at the task and learning both global and local object locations, although see further comments.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors frame the entire introduction around confirming the presence of the cognitive map either locally or globally. There are some significant issues with this framing. For one, the introduction appears to be confirmatory and not testing specific hypotheses that can be falsified. What exactly are the hypotheses being tested? I believe that this relates to the testing whether neural representations are global and/or local. However, this is not clear. Given that a previous paper (Marchette et al. 2014 Nature Neuro, which bears many similarities) showed only local coding in RSC, this paper needs to be discussed in far more depth in terms of its similarities and differences. This paper looked at both position and direction, while the current paper looks at direction. Even here, direction in the current study is somewhat impoverished: it involves either pointing right or left to an object, and much of this could be categorical or even lucky guesses. From what I could tell, all behavioral inferences are based on reaction time and not accuracy, and therefore, it is difficult to determine if the subject's behavior actually reflects knowledge gained or simply faster reaction time, either due to motor learning or a speed-accuracy trade-off. The pointing task is largely egocentric: it can be solved by remembering a facing direction and an object relative to that. It is not the JRD task as has been used in other studies (e.g., Huffman et al. 2019 Neuron), which is continuous and has an allocentric component. This "version" of the task would be largely egocentric. In this way, the pointing task used does not test the core tenets of the cognitive map during navigation, which is defined as allocentric and Euclidean (please see O'Keefe and Nadel 1978, The Hippocampus as a Cognitive Map). Since neither of these assumptions appears valid, the paper should be reframed to reflect spatial representations more broadly or even egocentric spatial representations.

      (2) The fMRI data workup is insufficient. What do the authors mean by "deactivations" in Figure 3b? Does this mean the object task showed more activation than the spatial task in HSC? Given that HSC is one of these regions, this would seem to suggest that the hippocampus is more involved in object than spatial processing, although it is difficult to tell from how things are written. The RSA is more helpful, but now a concern is that the analysis focuses on small clusters that are based on analyses determined previously. This appears to be the case for the correlations shown in Figure 3e as well. The issues here are several-fold. For one, it has been shown in previous work that basing secondary analyses on related first analyses can inflate the risk of false positives (i.e., Kriegeskorte et al. 2009 Nature Neuro). The authors should perform secondary analyses in ways that are unbiased by the first analyses, preferably, selecting cluster centers (if they choose to go this route) from previous papers rather than their own analyses. Another option would be to perform analyses at the level of the entire ROI, meaning that the results would generalize more readily. The authors should also perform permutation tests to ensure that the RSA results are reliable, as these can run the risk of false positives (e.g., Nolan et al. 2018 eNeuro). If these results hold, the authors should perform post-hoc (corrected) t-tests for global vs. local before and after learning to ensure these differences are robust and not simply rely on the interaction effect. The figures were difficult to follow in this regard, and an interaction effect does not necessarily mean the differences that are critical (global higher than local after) are necessarily significant. The end part of the results was hard to follow. If ACC showed a similar effect to HC and RSC, why is it not being considered? Many other areas that seemed to show local vs. global effects were dismissed, but these should instead be discussed in terms of whether they are consistent or inconsistent with the hypotheses.

      (3) Concerns about the discussion: there are areas involving reverse inference about brain areas rather than connecting the findings with hypotheses (see Poldrack et al. 2006 Trends in Cognitive Science). The authors also argue for 'transfer" of information (for example, from ACC to OFC), but did not perform any connectivity analyses, so these conclusions are not based on any results. Instead, the authors should carefully compare what can be concluded from the reaction time findings and the fMRI data. What is consistent vs. inconsistent with the hypotheses? The authors should also provide a much more detailed comparison with past work. The Marchette et al. paper comes to different conclusions regarding RSC and involves more detailed analyses than those done here, including position. What is different in the current paper that might explain the differences in results? Another previous paper that came to a different conclusion (hippocampus local, retrosplenial global) and should be carefully considered and compared, as it also involved learning of environments and comparisons at different phases (e.g., Wolbers & Buchel 2005 J Neuro). Other papers that have used the JRD task have demonstrated similar, although not identical, networks (e.g., Huffman et al. 2019 Neuron) and the results here should be more carefully compared, as the current task is largely egocentric while the Huffman et al. paper involves a continuous and allocentric version of the JRD task.

      (4) The authors cite rodent papers involving single neuron recordings. These are quite different experiments, however: they involve rodents, the rodents are freely moving, and single neurons are recorded. Here, the study involves humans who are supine and an indirect vascular measure of neural activity. Citations should be to studies of spatial memory and navigation in humans using fMRI: over-reliance on rodent studies should be avoided for the reasons mentioned above.

    1. Digital citizenship in schools : nine elements all students should know by Ribble, Mike Publication date 2015 Topics Computer literacy -- Study and teaching -- United States, Internet literacy, Education, Elementary -- United States -- Data processing, Education, Secondary -- United States -- Data processing Publisher Eugene, Oregon : International Society for Technology in Education Collection internetarchivebooks; nationaluniversity; inlibrary; printdisabled Contributor Internet Archive Language English Item Size 474.9M x, 212 pages : 28 cmIncludes bibliographical references and indexSection I. Understanding digital citizenship -- chapter 1. A brief history of digital citizenship -- chapter 2. The nine elements of digital citizenship -- Section II. Digital citizenship in schools -- chapter 3. Creating a digital citizenship program -- chapter 4. Professional development activities in digital citizenship -- Section III. Digital citizenship in the classroom -- chapter 5. Teaching digital citizenship to students -- chapter 6. Foundational lessons in digital citizenship -- chapter 7. Guided lessons in digital citizenship -- Conclusion Access-restricted-item true Addeddate 2023-07-18 11:33:13 Autocrop_version 0.0.15_books-20220331-0.2 Bookplateleaf 0002 Boxid IA41026906 Camera USB PTP Class Camera Col_number COL-2513 Collection_set printdisabled External-identifier urn:lcp:digitalcitizensh0000ribb_x4u3:epub:925c17a4-eb03-466d-9236-c990d53eee2f urn:lcp:digitalcitizensh0000ribb_x4u3:lcpdf:24304311-9320-40ce-8f6d-da51036f64ec urn:oclc:record:1391393133 Foldoutcount 0

      Digital

    1. Guide pratique : S'engager sans s'épuiser, cultiver un militantisme durable

      Introduction : La double facette de l'engagement moderne

      Face à une urgence écologique et sociale de plus en plus palpable, nous assistons à une multiplication des formes d'engagement citoyen.

      Des actions de désobéissance civile aux initiatives de sensibilisation, en passant par la création de médias indépendants, cet élan collectif est vital pour faire face aux défis de notre époque.

      Cependant, cette mobilisation intense expose les individus et les organisations à un risque élevé d'épuisement physique et psychologique, un phénomène souvent désigné sous le nom de « burnout militant ».

      Loin d'être un signe de faiblesse, cet épuisement est une conséquence logique d'une lutte exigeante contre des systèmes profondément ancrés.

      Ce guide se veut une ressource pragmatique et encourageante, synthétisant les stratégies, les changements de perspective et les leçons partagées par des militants expérimentés pour préserver son énergie et cultiver sa motivation sur le long terme.

      En tant que psychologue observant ces dynamiques, ce guide vise à outiller les acteurs du changement pour qu'ils puissent aligner leur action extérieure avec leur résilience intérieure.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      1. Comprendre la flamme de l'engagement : Les racines de l'action

      Avant de chercher à protéger la flamme de l'engagement, il est fondamental de comprendre ce qui l'a allumée.

      Identifier ses motivations profondes, cette « étincelle » initiale qui pousse à l'action, est la première étape pour construire un engagement résilient et authentique.

      C'est en se reconnectant à ce « pourquoi » viscéral que l'on peut trouver la force de traverser les moments de doute et de fatigue.

      Cette section explore les divers détonateurs de l'action, tels que vécus et partagés par des personnes engagées aux parcours variés.

      1.1. L'étincelle initiale : Identifier votre « pourquoi »

      Les chemins qui mènent à l'engagement sont multiples, souvent personnels et profondément transformateurs. Ils naissent d'une rencontre entre une sensibilité individuelle et une réalité qui devient intolérable.

      La prise de conscience soudaine : Pour certains, l'engagement naît d'un choc, d'une information qui brise les certitudes.

      C'est le cas de l'arboriste-grimpeur Thomas Braille, qui a été « coupé dans ses jambes » en réalisant que l'échéance de l'urgence climatique n'était plus une projection lointaine mais une réalité imminente :

      « 20 ans, c'est demain ».

      Cette prise de conscience a été catalysée par la peur viscérale pour l'avenir de son fils.

      Le sentiment d'injustice personnel : L'expérience vécue de l'injustice est un moteur puissant et durable.

      Pour la réalisatrice Flore Vasseur, le « foyer de la flamme » se trouve dans une injustice personnelle vécue durant l'enfance.

      Cette blessure initiale, bien que longtemps enfouie, est devenue la source d'une quête de réparation et d'une sensibilité aiguë aux injustices du monde.

      La passion confrontée à la réalité : L'engagement peut aussi émerger lorsque la passion d'une vie se heurte à l'inaction et à l'absurdité du système.

      L'agroclimatologue Serge Zaka, passionné par la météo depuis l'enfance, a basculé dans un engagement public en constatant les impacts concrets du changement climatique (des végétaux brûlés à 46°C) et l'ignorance des décideurs politiques face à des études qu'ils avaient eux-mêmes commandées.

      La quête de cohérence et la fin de la solitude : Parfois, l'engagement est une flamme qui couvait depuis longtemps mais peinait à trouver un exutoire.

      Pour Anaïs Terrien, présidente de La Fresque du Climat, un engagement précoce mais solitaire a trouvé un nouvel élan grâce à un outil lui permettant enfin de structurer le dialogue, de briser l'isolement et d'être comprise dans ses préoccupations.

      1.2. Le moteur psychologique de l'action

      Selon l'analyse de l'écopsychologue Emmanuel Delrieu, l'engagement n'est pas un simple choix intellectuel, mais une transformation profonde qui répond à des mécanismes psychologiques précis.

      1. L'interaction des forces : Pour persévérer, un engagement doit mobiliser une synergie de trois types de forces.

      Les forces affectives (ce qui nous touche, la sensibilité à la souffrance du monde), les forces comportementales (la capacité à agir et à persévérer dans la durée) et les forces cognitives (la capacité à analyser et à réconcilier les aspects positifs et négatifs de la lutte).

      2. La résolution de la dissonance cognitive : S'engager est souvent un moyen de réduire la tension interne entre ses valeurs et les paradigmes dominants de la société (capitalisme, patriarcat, colonialisme).

      Face à cette dissonance, l'action permet de « remettre de l'ordre dans sa vie » en alignant ses comportements avec ses convictions profondes.

      3. La transformation par l'enracinement : Plus l'engagement est profond, plus l'individu se transforme et se « radicalise », au sens étymologique du terme :

      il s'enracine dans ses convictions. Cet enracinement crée des liens, un « mycélium » avec d'autres luttes, renforçant la solidarité et la position de chacun.

      Cependant, cette même puissance qui ancre l'individu dans ses convictions le rend aussi plus vulnérable.

      En s'alignant si profondément avec sa cause, il s'expose frontalement à la résistance, à l'inertie et à la violence du système qu'il combat, créant un terrain propice à l'usure.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      2. Naviguer les tempêtes : Reconnaître et gérer le risque d'épuisement

      Loin d'être un échec personnel ou un signe de faiblesse, les moments de fatigue, de doute et même d'effondrement sont des étapes quasi inévitables du parcours militant.

      Ils sont le reflet de l'intensité de la lutte et de la violence de ce qui est combattu.

      L'enjeu stratégique n'est donc pas d'éviter ces moments à tout prix, mais d'apprendre à en reconnaître les signes avant-coureurs et à y répondre de manière constructive et bienveillante.

      2.1. Les symptômes avant-coureurs du burnout militant

      Être à l'écoute de soi est la première ligne de défense. Voici quelques signaux d'alerte, basés sur les analyses et témoignages, qui doivent inciter à la prudence :

      Fatigue physique et mentale : Une irritabilité croissante et une fatigue persistante qui ne se résorbe pas avec le repos sont des premiers signes clairs que les réserves d'énergie s'épuisent (Emmanuel Delrieu).

      Perte de sens et envie de retrait : Après une action extrême – 40 jours de grève de la faim suivis d'une grève de la soif – Thomas Braille a ressenti le besoin de s'isoler : « je ne voulais plus voir d'êtres humains ».

      Ce sentiment que le sacrifice est vain et que « tout le monde s'en fout » est un symptôme critique.

      Sentiment de submerssion : L'impression que « le vase était presque plein et menaçait de casser » a poussé Anaïs Terrien à annuler ses engagements.

      Cette sensation d'être submergé par les responsabilités et les urgences est un indicateur majeur.

      Confrontation à l'indifférence et au cynisme : La frustration face à l'inaction générale, comme l'a vécue Flore Vasseur après les révélations d'Edward Snowden, peut user la motivation et mener à un sentiment d'impuissance destructeur.

      2.2. Le burnout comme un cycle, et non comme une fin

      Il est crucial de déconstruire l'idée que le burnout est un point final. C'est avant tout un signal et une étape de transformation.

      L'effondrement est un « moment transformatoire nécessaire ».

      L'écopsychologue Emmanuel Delrieu insiste : plus on résiste à la fatigue et au besoin de changement, plus l'effondrement est douloureux.

      L'accepter comme une étape nécessaire permet de le traverser plus sereinement.

      L'engagement n'est pas linéaire mais cyclique. Il s'apparente à une spirale.

      Les phases de « down » ne sont pas des régressions, mais des moments où l'on plonge pour « chercher des forces encore plus grandes d'ancrage ».

      Chaque cycle permet de se transformer et de repartir sur des bases plus solides.

      L'erreur est de « toujours vouloir être parfait et aller bien ». Comme le souligne Flore Vasseur, la société nous pousse à masquer nos vulnérabilités.

      Or, la libération que représentent les émotions, les larmes et l'acceptation de ses failles est une source de résilience immense.

      L'enjeu stratégique est donc de cultiver un réseau de soutien solide, capable de vous accueillir lors de ces phases d'effondrement pour qu'elles deviennent des sources de transformation, et non de destruction.

      2.3. Les facteurs aggravants spécifiques au militantisme

      Au-delà du surmenage classique, le militantisme expose à des sources de stress uniques qui accélèrent le risque d'épuisement.

      1. La violence des attaques personnelles : L'exposition publique s'accompagne souvent d'une violence décomplexée.

      Les insultes constantes reçues par Serge Zaka sur son physique (allant jusqu'à la création du sobriquet « Grosaka ») ou sa crédibilité (son chapeau) sont une forme de harcèlement visant à déstabiliser et à user psychologiquement.

      2. L'invisibilisation institutionnelle : Comme l'analyse Emmanuel Delrieu, les structures politiques et sociales nient ou minimisent systématiquement les luttes.

      Cette non-reconnaissance est une source d'injustice profonde et d'épuisement, car elle oblige à se battre non seulement pour sa cause, mais aussi pour la légitimité même de son combat.

      3. La confrontation à la force du système : Les militants se heurtent à la capacité du système à absorber et neutraliser la critique.

      Flore Vasseur a constaté que « plus vous tapez dedans, plus il est fort ».

      Le système peut transformer la dénonciation en spectacle, la vidant de sa substance et laissant le militant avec un sentiment d'impuissance.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      3. Entretenir la flamme : Stratégies pour un engagement durable

      Un engagement durable ne se résume pas à la gestion des crises d'épuisement.

      Il repose sur la mise en place de stratégies proactives pour nourrir sa motivation, protéger son énergie et construire sa propre résilience.

      Les quatre piliers suivants, complémentaires et interdépendants, offrent des pistes concrètes pour y parvenir.

      3.1. Stratégie 1 : La force du collectif et du soutien

      Le premier et le plus puissant rempart contre l'épuisement est la qualité des liens humains. L'isolement est le terreau du burnout.

      S'appuyer sur le collectif : Anaïs Terrien l'affirme sans détour : elle a été sauvée du burnout par son conseil d'administration.

      Le groupe agit comme un filet de sécurité, permettant de prendre le relais lorsque l'un de ses membres flanche.

      Savoir demander de l'aide : Reconnaître ses propres limites et oser demander du soutien n'est pas une faiblesse, mais une compétence stratégique essentielle pour durer.

      C'est un acte de confiance envers le collectif.

      Cultiver le « prendre soin du lien » : Comme le propose Emmanuel Delrieu, il est crucial d'instaurer au sein des groupes une pratique active de soutien mutuel.

      Cela signifie créer des espaces où la vulnérabilité est acceptée et où l'on prend soin les uns des autres autant que de la cause défendue.

      3.2. Stratégie 2 : La justesse de la perspective

      La manière dont on perçoit son action et ses objectifs peut radicalement diminuer la pression et le risque d'épuisement.

      Adopter « l'esprit des cathédrales » : Partagée par Flore Vasseur via Edward Snowden, cette métaphore est libératrice.

      Elle invite à accepter de ne pas voir le résultat final de ses actions, mais à se concentrer sur sa contribution : poser sa « brique » avec la confiance que d'autres construiront dessus.

      Lutter « pour » plutôt que « contre » : Ce changement de paradigme, également proposé par Flore Vasseur, rend l'engagement plus positif et moins autodestructeur.

      Il s'agit de se battre pour un monde désirable, pour la vie, pour l'avenir de ses enfants — des moteurs qui génèrent une énergie positive et renouvelable, à l'inverse de la lutte contre un système qui peut se révéler corrosive.

      Renoncer à l'attente d'un résultat immédiat :

      L'attente d'une victoire rapide est l'une des principales sources de dépression et de désillusion pour les militants.

      L'esprit des cathédrales aide à se détacher de cette tyrannie du résultat.

      3.3. Stratégie 3 : L'alignement et l'action authentique

      Un engagement qui dure est un engagement qui vient du cœur, pas de l'ego.

      Se connecter à son injustice profonde : Comme le conseille Flore Vasseur, les blessures personnelles, les humiliations, les trahisons vécues sont le « fioul » le plus durable.

      C'est en allant chercher ce qui nous touche viscéralement que l'on trouve une énergie inépuisable.

      S'engager pour se réparer soi-même : Plutôt que de s'engager pour la reconnaissance sociale ou l'image, ce qui mène inévitablement à l'épuisement, l'engagement le plus durable est celui qui est aussi une démarche intime.

      Comme l'explique Flore Vasseur, « on y va pour se réparer soi. Ce qu'on vient réparer c'est soi et en se réparant soi on répare le monde ».

      Diversifier ses projets et ses sources d'énergie : Pour ne pas dépendre d'une seule source de gratification, il est sain de « ne pas mettre tous ses œufs dans le même panier », comme le pratique Anaïs Terrien.

      Avoir d'autres projets (collectif d'habitation, jardinage, art) permet de se ressourcer et de maintenir un équilibre.

      3.4. Stratégie 4 : La culture du soin personnel

      Prendre soin de soi n'est pas un luxe ou un acte égoïste ; c'est une condition indispensable pour pouvoir continuer à prendre soin du monde.

      « Faire silence d'humain » : Ce conseil d'Emmanuel Delrieu invite à se reconnecter régulièrement et profondément à la nature, loin du bruit et de l'agitation humaine, pour se ressourcer et retrouver une perspective plus large.

      Se détacher de la peur du jugement : Thomas Braille illustre une source de force immense :

      « Je n'ai pas peur du jugement des hommes, j'ai peur uniquement du jugement de mon fils ».

      Se libérer de la peur du regard social permet d'agir avec une plus grande liberté et une plus grande force.

      Le plus grand renoncement : renoncer à plaire. Cette phrase puissante de Flore Vasseur résume un acte de libération essentiel.

      Un militant ne peut pas plaire à tout le monde. L'accepter, c'est se libérer d'un poids immense.

      Se nourrir de la joie : Malgré les difficultés, l'engagement est aussi une source de joies intenses.

      Flore Vasseur rappelle rencontrer « plus souvent des moments de joie quasi extatique que des moments de burnout ».

      Le lien, la solidarité et les petites victoires sont des nourritures essentielles.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      4. Conclusion : L'engagement, un marathon pour la vie

      En définitive, l'engagement sur le long terme s'apparente bien plus à un marathon qu'à un sprint. Les stratégies pour durer ne sont pas des distractions ou des luxes, mais des composantes essentielles de la lutte elle-même.

      Prendre soin de soi, cultiver la force du collectif, ajuster sa perspective et agir depuis un lieu d'authenticité sont les conditions de la victoire.

      En acceptant la nature cyclique de l'énergie et en se rappelant constamment son « pourquoi », il devient possible non seulement de tenir, mais aussi de s'épanouir dans l'action.

      Comme le disait Baden-Powell, cité par Anaïs Terrien, l'objectif n'est peut-être pas de sauver le monde seul et tout de suite, mais plus humblement et plus durablement d'« essayer de laisser le monde un peu meilleur que quand vous êtes arrivé ».

    1. Additionally, note that the drawstring casing, also known as the cord channel, is consistently 1.5 inches (4cm) tall. Body Panel Length: Body Panel Height: Cord Channel Length: Cord Channel Height:

      We read that "the drawstring casing, also known as the cord channel, is consistently 1.5 inches (4cm) tall." But when we enter dimensions, we're consistently old that "Cord Channel Height" is 4 inches. This seems to be a contradiction.

      I asked Tim, the maker of this website, for an explanation. Here is his response: 'The fabric for cord channel is always 4" tall. You'll fold in half and then sew to Body Panel using 1/2" S/A. This uses up 1" of fabric. So you end up with a channel casing of 1.5" tall.'

    1. visualize_token2token_scores(norm_fn(output_attentions_all, dim=2).squeeze().detach().cpu().numpy(), x_label_name='Layer')

      维度变化链路 output_attentions_all:(layer, batch, head, seq_len, seq_len) → norm_fn(dim=2):聚合head维度 → (layer, batch, seq_len, seq_len) → squeeze():删除batch维度 → (layer, seq_len, seq_len) → 最终用于可视化:每层的“token-token注意力强度矩阵”(汇总所有头的信息)


      维度格式 output_attentions_all.shape = (layer, batch, head, seq_len, seq_len)<br /> (文档中通过代码 output_attentions_all = torch.stack(output_attentions) 明确堆叠逻辑,且在 [29] 单元格注释中验证了维度构成)

      各维度含义

      • layer(维度索引 0,数值示例为 12) 表示 BERT 模型中编码器的层数。以 bert-base-uncased 为例,模型默认包含 12 个 Transformer 编码层。

      • batch(维度索引 1,数值示例为 1) 表示输入样本的批次大小。文档示例中仅使用了 1 个问答对作为输入,因此该维度取值为 1。

      • head(维度索引 2,数值示例为 12) 表示每一层中的多头注意力头数。对于 bert-base-uncased,每个编码层默认包含 12 个注意力头。

      • seq_len(维度索引 3,行维度,数值示例为 26) 表示输入序列的长度,包括 [CLS][SEP] 等特殊 token。该维度对应注意力的“发出者”(query)token。

      • seq_len(维度索引 4,列维度,数值示例为 26) 与上一维度含义一致,同样表示序列长度,但对应注意力的“接收者”(key)token。张量中的每个元素 $[l, b, h, i, j]$ 表示在第 $l$ 层、第 $b$ 个样本、第 $h$ 个注意力头下,第 $i$ 个 token 对第 $j$ 个 token 分配的注意力权重(经 softmax 归一化)。


      文档中 norm_fn 是 L2 范数计算函数(基于 PyTorch 版本选择 torch.linalg.normtorch.norm),调用方式为 norm_fn(output_attentions_all, dim=2),核心是在“注意力头(head)”维度上计算范数,以汇总每层所有头的注意力信息。

      操作逻辑 - 输入:output_attentions_all 维度为 (layer, batch, head, seq_len, seq_len)<br /> - 关键参数:dim=2 表示对第2维(head维度)计算L2范数——即对每层、每个样本、每个“发出者-接收者”token对(i,j),将12个注意力头的权重作为向量,计算其L2范数( \(\sqrt{\sum_{h=1}^{12} w_{l,b,h,i,j}^2}\) )。

      输出维度与含义 - 输出维度(norm_fn 后):(layer, batch, seq_len, seq_len)<br /> (因在 head 维度(dim=2)上聚合,故维度数从5维减少为4维,删除了 head 维度) - 后续处理:squeeze().detach().cpu().numpy() 是张量格式转换操作,不改变维度含义: - squeeze():去除维度大小为1的维度(此处 batch=1,故删除 batch 维度),最终维度变为 (layer, seq_len, seq_len); - detach().cpu().numpy():将PyTorch张量转为NumPy数组,用于后续可视化。

      最终维度

      • layer(维度索引 0,数值示例为 12) 与输入保持一致,表示 BERT 的 12 个编码器层。

      • seq_len(维度索引 1,行维度,数值示例为 26) 表示输入序列的长度,对应注意力的“发出者”(query)token,与原始注意力张量的第 3 维一致。

      • seq_len(维度索引 2,列维度,数值示例为 26) 同样表示输入序列的长度,对应注意力的“接收者”(key)token,与原始注意力张量的第 4 维一致。张量中每个元素 $[l,i,j]$ 表示在第 $l$ 层中,第 $i$ 个 token 对第 $j$ 个 token 的多头注意力权重汇总范数,用于刻画该 token 对在该层上的整体注意力强度,而不区分具体注意力头。

    1. R0:

      Review Comments to the Author

      Please use the space provided to explain your answers to the questions above. You may also include additional comments for the author, including concerns about dual publication, research ethics, or publication ethics. (Please upload your review as an attachment if it exceeds 20,000 characters)

      Reviewer #1: Full Title:

      Manuscript full title does not match with the short title. Full title reads "Climate change, livelihoods, gender and violence in Rukiga, Uganda: intersections and pathways". While short tile reads "Climate Change and Gender Based Violence". 'gender based violence' may not necessarily mean the same as 'gender and violence'. Authors should consider revising the wording in the full time if they meant gender based violence.

      Abstract:

      Inconsistency in FGD size, harmonize to consistent range across the manuscript. Author said "Between April and July 2021, we conducted 28 focus group discussions (FGDs), comprising 6-8 participants each (line 29-30" and in methods author said "From 20 April 2021- 02 July 2021 five focus group discussions (FGDs) were conducted in each community (28 in total) each consisting of four to six participants (lines 135-136)".

      clarify the CBV emergent theme. You said "This study, though not originally intended to focus on GBV, examines how it interconnects with poverty, shifting gender roles, alcoholism, environmental stress, and family planning dynamics." (lines 26-28). Consider adding a statement signalling GBV emerged inductively during data colletion and/or analysis.

      Methods: Revise the methods section to ensure the study can be reprodcible, and signal reliability of findings.

      What study design did you use? not clear

      Author said participants were " purposively selected... with the help of community leaders" (lines 140-141). Clearly elaborate the eligibility criteria and how the gatekeepers' influence was mitigated, and proper justification why 28 FGDs and 40 KIIs were sufficient. Talk about saturation, was maximum variation considered? and how?

      Results:

      Tag all quotes with data source (FGD or KII), sex, age to evidence diversity across the groups.

      Make sure all quotes are in clear quotations marks (lines 220-222). fix that for the entire results section and be consistent.

      Authors said "When describing their experiences and perceptions of poverty and its associated consequences including poor diets, sickness, and lack of ability to pay for healthcare and transport to medical facilities, most respondents explicitly identified poverty as a direct cause of GBV:" (lines 311-314). Revise the wording on participants' perceptions to avoid implying causality from qualitative data. Check the entire document for this including the abstract lines 36 to 41.

      Ethics: Include ethical committee name that gave ethical clearance for the study, also include the reference number and date.

      describe safeguardings and referral procedures followed in the study if any.

      Conclusion: The concept for this paper is timely and relevant. However several important elements require revision before the manuscript can meet PLOS Global Public Health Standards. Work on the clarity and consistency of the methods (study design was not clearly mentioned, there are several qualitative designs one can use, e.g. phenomenology, case study, etc. what design did you use?). PLOS Global Public Health guidelines on data sharing require that you provide some de-identified data, nevertheless authors stated that they would share data and the justification for that leaves much to be desired.

      Reviewer #2: 1. Kindly mention the methodological orientation adopted for the study? 2. Discrepancy between number of participants in FGD mentioned in abstract and methods – (6 – 8 in abstract and 4 – 6 participants in methods)…Kindly make it uniform 3. Additional context on domestic violence and related statistics can be added in study setting 4. Details on steps taken to ensure internal validity/rigor to be mentioned – member checking, reflexivity 5. Give details of the parent project briefly 6. Any conceptual model/framework adopted to guide data generation/analysis? 7. What efforts were taken to address/refer victims of GBV once disclosed? 8. Socio - demographic details of the respondents could be added for better interpretation 9. Key themes are restated multiple times; Many dimensions of GBV (more details on each typology, coping strategies, prevention, etc) not elicited

      Reviewer #3: Overall Comments The paper takes a qualitative approach to “examine locally held perceptions of the relationships between climate and livelihood-related stressors and changing dynamcis, including the risk of Rukiga district. Climate change remains a global threat, with many countries and communities within Africa, ill prepared to adapt and mitigate the consequences. The paper is an attempt to paint a picture of climate-related impacts, particularly how gender-based violence, a persistent public health, socioeconomic and development issue is shaped by and influencing social, economic and environmental stressors.

      In its current form, the paper need to be strengthened to get it to be sufficiently robust for publication in PLOS Global Public Health. The paper needs to be strengthened in at least three ways:

      1) Overall, the paper needs to better contextualise their goal. Authors state in line 115 to 117, that their purpose is to understand locally held perceptions of the relationship between climate and livelihood-related stressors, and in several other sections, indicate make clear that, their original intention was not GBV, but undertook a thematic analysis on the latter. This can be confusing making it difficult for readers to follow. Authors need to clarify their focus – if it is on GBV, they may consider better contextualising their paper, especially in the introduction.

      As part of contextualising, authors may consider highlighting the initial primary research focus – this helps to provide context for readers to begin to appreciate how and why GBV took center-stage during the analysis. In doing so, it also provides an opportunity for authors to properly situate their contributions to the literature.

      Other minor issues include: • Authors make claims about projected exponential increase (line 51-52) and yet, do not support with any data. Similarly, authors may want to consider revising the sentence, as it appears redundant.

      • In line 55-57, it argued “Uganda’s vulnerability to climate change and climate-sensitive disasters is extremely high – it is not immediately clear to readers what this means. By which benchmark or metric are authors assessing Uganda’s vulnerability. Authors may consider revising to ensure clarity (also see lines 108-110 for punctuation issues).

      • Lastly, the study takes place in Rukiga District – it would be helpful if authors provided some additional background context. Will the results be different, if the study was conducted in a different district rather than Rukiga? Basically, some discussions of the rationale and/or choice of the selected district is be useful.

      2) Overall, authors need to improve their methods by revising and clarifying, some of the sections. For example, under study setting (line 128-130), it is not clear if the concluding sentence is provided additional context for the prior statement. Authors may want to revise for clarity purpose.

      I. Reconcile the number of participants for FGDs – in the abstract, authors indicate 6-8 people form a FDG and in line 136, it says “…each consisting of four to six participants,…”. II. For both FGD and KII, it is useful to indicate and/or describe the demographic/characteristics of the people participating in the study (Perhaps, authors could outline their demographics by sex and age, and any other stratifier in the results section in a tabular format. How were participants selected, especially among the FGD participants? III. On ethics statement, although the data emanates from key informants and community members, authors do not indicate whether they sought ethnical approval for their study. If ethics was obtained, it is useful to indicate so. IV. Regarding data collection, lines 172 to 173, authors indicate that “discrepancies in the coding were re-examined…”. It useful to explain how the independent assessor resolved discrepancies and reached consensus. V. In the data collection section (line 155 to 157), authors indicate that they “undertook a specific analysis of what participants said about GBV”. However, in the results, it is often not clear, the specific thematic issues or results arising from this analysis. Related to this and linked to the analysis, it is not clear to readers how the two main clusters (line 188 to 191) link to GBV. While lines 193 to 212, describe nature of GBV, for the most parts (for example, line 213 to 308), it is difficult to follow how GBV is an interconnector in the results being discussed. At times, it difficult to see, where the analysis departs from its original intended goal. Were the issues around climate change and environment among others emergent from the data?

      3) Overall, the results section outlines some very interesting insights. However, I do feel this section can be deepened. In many instances, the narratives are often not immediately supported by the relevant quotes, linking to GBV. • In line 230 – 323, authors reflect that the disruption to livelihoods leading to family instabilities and conflict, demonstrate how GBV is triggered. This assumption is challenging to sustain, considering that “unrest in families” and not having “peace in a home” do not necessarily connote GBV. Similar reflections are presented at line 306 (“...they both resort to quarrels…”), lines 316 to 320 (…start quarrelling and fighting…”) and (“…you fight with the woman”). • Although authors indicate these are “euphemisms for GBV” (line 208) that participants use – without critical analysis, we risk painting a picture that may not be correct. For example, will readers be correct to assume, that in Ugandan context, such referencs always mean GBV?. To avoid readers assuming without appropriate understanding of context, authors may consider, making explicit any additional nunaces related to the quotations or contexts for this pharses, to clarify and make the links to GBV much clearer.

      Minor • Line 199 – please clarify how and why unintended pregnancies is considered a form of GBV • Line 208 to 209 – revise sentence – it is not clear what authors mean by throughout their experiences and perceptions • Line 211 – “GBV was raised during the discussions of a wide range of factors” – perhaps, useful to outline the contexts which GBV was raised

    1. Comments to the Author

      1. Does this manuscript meet PLOS Global Public Health’s publication criteria? Is the manuscript technically sound, and do the data support the conclusions? The manuscript must describe methodologically and ethically rigorous research with conclusions that are appropriately drawn based on the data presented.

      Reviewer #1: Partly

      1. Has the statistical analysis been performed appropriately and rigorously?

      Reviewer #1: N/A

      1. Have the authors made all data underlying the findings in their manuscript fully available (please refer to the Data Availability Statement at the start of the manuscript PDF file)?

      The PLOS Data policy requires authors to make all data underlying the findings described in their manuscript fully available without restriction, with rare exception. The data should be provided as part of the manuscript or its supporting information, or deposited to a public repository. For example, in addition to summary statistics, the data points behind means, medians and variance measures should be available. If there are restrictions on publicly sharing data—e.g. participant privacy or use of data from a third party—those must be specified.

      Reviewer #1: No

      1. Is the manuscript presented in an intelligible fashion and written in standard English?

      PLOS Global Public Health does not copyedit accepted manuscripts, so the language in submitted articles must be clear, correct, and unambiguous. Any typographical or grammatical errors should be corrected at revision, so please note any specific errors here.

      Reviewer #1: Yes

      1. Review Comments to the Author

      Please use the space provided to explain your answers to the questions above. You may also include additional comments for the author, including concerns about dual publication, research ethics, or publication ethics. (Please upload your review as an attachment if it exceeds 20,000 characters)

      Reviewer #1: Thank you for the opportunity to review this manuscript. Overall, it makes an important contribution to understanding climate and health policy in Argentina, but several issues should be addressed before it is suitable for publication:

      The manuscript addresses an important and timely topic, analyzing climate and health policy in Argentina through stakeholder perspectives.

      The qualitative design (interviews, document analysis, stakeholder workshop) is appropriate for the research question.

      Valuable insights are provided on governance, financing, technical networks, federalism, and awareness gaps, with lessons for Latin America more broadly.

      Inconsistencies in sample reporting: text mentions both 31 interviews and 26 interviews with 31 participants. This must be clarified and reconciled with Table 1.

      The analysis section requires more detail on how coding disagreements were resolved and how workshop data were integrated.

      The rationale for merging WHO framework dimensions should be better explained to ensure analytical nuance is not lost.

      The Data Availability Statement does not comply with PLOS requirements. Data are not publicly available and no concrete mechanism for controlled access is provided. At minimum, de-identified excerpts or a codebook should be shared.

      Ethics approvals are described but approval identifiers/protocol numbers should be included for transparency.

      The manuscript is intelligible and written in standard English but contains issues that should be corrected:

      Abstract is too long and must be shortened to ~250–300 words.

      “Intersectionality” should be corrected to “intersectorality.”

      “Precarized personnel” should be rephrased as “temporary personnel with insecure contracts.”

      “Professionals and non-professionals” should be replaced with clearer wording (e.g., “clinical and support staff”).

      Redundancy around “technical teams” and “federalism” should be reduced.

      References require major correction:

      Multiple broken Zotero placeholders are present.

      Several entries are incomplete or missing DOIs/URLs.

      Reference formatting must be standardized to PLOS style.

      Discussion section:

      Some statements overgeneralize from interviewee quotes (e.g., physicians not sensitized); these should be framed more cautiously.

      Financing section should explore in more depth why mitigation dominates international funding.

      References to political events (2024–2025) should be time-stamped as “at the time of data collection” to avoid rapid obsolescence.

      Overall, the study is methodologically appropriate and conclusions are mostly supported by the data.

      Revisions are necessary to ensure methodological clarity, compliance with data availability policy, correction of references, and refinement of language before publication.

      1. PLOS authors have the option to publish the peer review history of their article (what does this mean?). If published, this will include your full peer review and any attached files.

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      Reviewer #1: No

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    1. R0:

      Reviewer #1:

      The article “Profiling Zero-Dose Measles-Rubella Children in Zambia: Insights from the 2024 Post-Campaign Coverage Survey” addresses an urgent global health issue aligned with IA2030 and Gavi’s zero-dose priorities. The title is concise, descriptive, and fits the scope of PLOS Global Public Health (PGPH).

      The study employs a cross-sectional, two-stage cluster survey following WHO guidelines, with robust sample size (n=8,634) and weighting for representativeness. Statistical analyses—survey-weighted logistic regression and confidence intervals—are appropriate. Ethical standards and data quality controls are well-documented. However, heavy reliance on caregiver recall (88.3%) introduces recall bias, and the absence of district-level disaggregation limits local applicability. The manuscript’s use of WHO standards and analytical transparency strengthens credibility.

      It provides novel national evidence on MR zero-dose prevalence and systemic immunization failures in Zambia, filling a gap between administrative and survey estimates. The identification of access and awareness barriers (e.g., 42.6% unaware of campaigns) adds actionable insights for health The article follows a clear IMRaD structure with strong coherence between results, discussion, and policy recommendations. Figures and tables are informative, though data visualization could be simplified for readability. Language is clear and professional, though some sections (e.g., policy implications) could be condensed to reduce redundancy.

      No conflicts of interest or funding bias reported. Data availability upon request aligns with journal policy, though full open-access data would enhance transparency. Overall, the manuscript is methodologically sound, policy-relevant, and well-aligned with PGPH’s thematic focus on equity and immunization coverage. Minor revisions are recommended—clarify recall bias mitigation, improve data visualization, and emphasize data accessibility. With these revisions, it is highly suitable for publication in PLOS Global Public Health.

      Reviewer #2:

      1. Is this a national wide surgvey? Please explain.

      2. Does this survey cover whole population? or part of population? What is the percentage of coverage?

      3. The survey is procpective study. How does it happen to miss the data? Please expalin.

      4. The ststistical part need more elaboration considering the variables.

      5. In discussion section, avoid bullet. Avoid the policy implecation rather right as paragraph.

      6. Rewrite the conclusion. Avoid frequency, percent, only mentiont he fidnings in relation to the objective of the study.

      Reviewer #3:

      In the current era of changing global and public health landscape, this manuscript is very timely in helping Zambia to improve vaccination coverage and address the inequities that exacerbates children to miss vaccinations. The manuscript is nearly perfect for publication with exception of few editorial areas which I request the authors to work on before the manuscript gets published. The areas are highlighted below:

      ABSTRACT Background  Line 22: I suggest to add the abbreviation MR in brackets after “Rubella”.  Line 23: I suggest to replace “and” with “can” between communities & sustain. Methods  Line 27: suggest to insert “was conducted from” before 27th & replace “-” with “to” between 2024 and 16th. Conclusions  Line 42: I suggest to write “RI” in its long form and the abbreviation in brackets.  Line 44: I suggest to edit “IA2030” to be “Immunization Agenda 2030”.

      INTRODUCTION  Line 86: I suggest to insert the abbreviation “RI” in brackets after “immunisation” before “performance”.

      METHODS Study Design  Line 97: I suggest to replace “Post-Campaign Coverage Survey (PCCS)” with its abbreviation PCCS.  Lines 98-99: I suggest to replace “Measles–Rubella (MR) Supplementary Immunisation Activity (SIA)” with the abbreviations “MR – SIA.

      RESULTS Zero-Dose Prevalence  Line 172: I suggest to write “DPT” in its long form and the abbreviation in brackets.

      DISCUSSION  Line 262: I suggest to replace “routine immunisation” with the abbreviation “RI”.

      CONCLUSION  Line 325: I suggest to replace “routine immunisation” with the abbreviation “RI”.

    1. Jak obniżyć CHOLESTEROL? Dieta, suplementy czy statyny? — lipidolog Magdalena Kaczan

      Summary of "How to Lower Cholesterol? Diet, Supplements, or Statins?"

      Guest: Magdalena Kaczan (Lipidologist)

      The video provides an extensive overview of cholesterol management, the mechanism of atherosclerosis, and the roles of lifestyle, genetics, and medication in cardiovascular health.

      1. Understanding Cholesterol and Lipoproteins

      • The Nature of Cholesterol: Cholesterol is an essential fatty substance required for building cell membranes and producing hormones [00:02:55].
      • The Role of Lipoproteins: Since cholesterol is a fat, it cannot travel alone in the blood. It is carried by "packages" called lipoproteins. The most problematic ones contain Apolipoprotein B (ApoB), which allows them to penetrate arterial walls [00:04:30].
      • LDL vs. HDL: * LDL (Low-Density Lipoprotein): Often called "bad" cholesterol. High levels are a primary driver of plaque buildup [00:05:31].
        • HDL (High-Density Lipoprotein): Generally "good" as it transports cholesterol back to the liver, though it can become dysfunctional in some cases [00:06:04].
      • The Importance of ApoB: ApoB is increasingly seen as a more accurate marker than LDL alone because it counts the total number of atherogenic (plaque-forming) particles [00:32:09].

      2. The Process of Atherosclerosis

      • Infiltration: Lipoproteins (like LDL) enter the arterial wall (intima) through a process called transcytosis [00:07:45].
      • Oxidation and Inflammation: Once inside the wall, LDL particles oxidize. The immune system views them as intruders; macrophages "eat" them and turn into "foam cells," triggering chronic inflammation [00:08:13].
      • Plaque Formation: Over time, a "lipid core" forms, surrounded by a fibrous cap. If this plaque ruptures, a blood clot forms, which can lead to a heart attack or stroke [00:13:07].

      3. Risk Factors and Individual Norms

      • Personalized Norms: There is no single "normal" cholesterol level. Targets depend on an individual's 10-year cardiovascular risk (based on age, smoking, blood pressure, etc.) [00:20:01].
      • Lipoprotein(a) [Lp(a)]: This is a genetically determined, highly aggressive form of LDL. It acts as an "accelerator" for heart disease and should be tested at least once in a lifetime, as it isn't lowered by traditional diet or exercise [00:36:10].
      • Metabolic Factors: High triglycerides, insulin resistance, and obesity significantly worsen the quality of LDL particles, making them smaller, denser, and more dangerous [00:28:22].

      4. Dietary Strategies

      • Saturated Fats: High intake of animal fats (butter, lard, fatty meats) and certain plant fats (coconut/palm oil) increases LDL levels [00:43:04].
      • The Power of Fiber: Soluble fiber (found in oats, legumes, and psyllium) binds bile acids in the gut, preventing the reabsorption of cholesterol [00:45:24].
      • Plant-Based Fats: Replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats (olive oil, nuts, fatty fish) is a primary dietary intervention [00:44:46].
      • Carbohydrates and Triglycerides: Excess simple sugars and alcohol are the main drivers of high triglycerides [00:47:48].

      5. Pharmacological Treatment (Statins)

      • Safety Profile: Statins are described as some of the safest drugs in cardiology [00:01:08].
      • Beyond Lowering LDL: Statins do more than lower cholesterol; they have "pleiotropic" effects, meaning they stabilize existing plaques and reduce systemic inflammation [00:56:33].
      • Side Effects and the "Nocebo" Effect: * Muscle pain occurs in about 9% of patients in clinical trials, but many subjective complaints are due to the nocebo effect (expecting side effects because of negative publicity) [01:03:06].
        • True statin intolerance is rare; switching to a different type or dose of statin often resolves issues [01:01:15].
      • Liver Impact: Serious liver damage is extremely rare (1 in 100,000). Minor elevations in liver enzymes are usually temporary as the liver adapts [01:04:05].

      6. Supplements and "Nutraceuticals"

      • Supplements vs. Medication: Supplements like berberine or red yeast rice (monacolin K) are not substitutes for medication in high-risk patients (e.g., those who have already had a heart attack) [01:09:46].
      • Red Yeast Rice: Contains monacolin K, which is chemically identical to lovastatin. While "natural," it can still cause the same side effects as prescription statins [01:11:14].
      • Coenzyme Q10: While statins can lower CoQ10 levels, clinical studies do not definitively show that supplementing it reduces muscle pain [01:06:19].

      7. Key Takeaways for Longevity

      • Start Early: Prevention is more effective than treating advanced disease.
      • Test Extensively: Go beyond a basic lipid panel; request ApoB and Lp(a) tests [01:13:05].
      • Continuity: Lifestyle changes and medications are long-term commitments. If you stop the intervention, the risk levels typically return to their baseline [01:14:11].
    1. 5 zaskakujących LEKÓW długowieczności — w tym… Viagra

      5 Surprising Longevity Drugs – Comprehensive Summary

      1. Study Background & Methodology * The Cohort: The study analyzed data from the UK Biobank, involving 501,169 participants aged 37 to 73, followed over a period of approximately 14 years [00:03:42]. * Prescription Data: Researchers examined nearly 56 million prescriptions issued to roughly 222,000 patients [00:03:58]. * Control Pairing: To determine the effect of a drug, patients taking a specific medication were paired with "control" subjects of similar age, sex, and health status (e.g., matching two diabetic males) who did not take the drug [00:06:46]. * Endpoint: The study used mortality (death) as the primary hard endpoint, as it is the most objective and difficult to manipulate in medical research [00:01:27].

      2. Key Risk Factors for Mortality * Smoking: The highest risk factor, with a Hazard Ratio (HR) of 2.0 (doubling the risk of death) [00:04:42]. * Cancer: HR of 1.88 [00:05:00]. * Age: HR of 1.72 [00:06:05]. * Diabetes: HR of 1.65 [00:05:22]. * Sex: Being male carried an HR of 1.64 [00:05:56].

      3. The Most Correlated Drugs with Longevity (The "Winners") * SGLT2 Inhibitors (Flozins): The top performer with a 36% reduction in mortality risk (HR 0.64). These drugs cause the body to excrete glucose through urine independently of insulin. They also act as a "weak ketosis," increasing ketones and LDL cholesterol while protecting blood vessels [00:15:50], [00:23:03]. * PDE5 Inhibitors (e.g., Viagra/Sildenafil, Cialis/Tadalafil): * Tadalafil (Cialis): Showed up to a 28% reduction in mortality risk at a 10mg dose (HR 0.72) [00:19:51]. * Sildenafil (Viagra): Showed a 15% reduction at a 50mg dose (HR 0.85) [00:20:19]. * Mechanism: These drugs stabilize Nitric Oxide (NO) levels, maintaining healthy arteries and preventing cardiovascular incidents [00:18:21]. * Estrogens (Hormone Replacement Therapy): Women taking estrogens saw a 24% reduction in mortality risk (HR 0.76). Positive results were seen across various forms, including oral, transdermal, and vaginal [00:13:50]. * Naproxen: A non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) that showed a 10-11% reduction in mortality risk. Unlike Ibuprofen (2-hour half-life), Naproxen stays in the body for 17 hours, effectively blocking COX enzymes and reducing blood clotting (thromboxane) [00:17:36], [00:25:26]. * Atorvastatin (Statins): While statins as a group had a minimal effect (3% reduction), Atorvastatin specifically showed a 13% reduction at 20mg. However, higher doses (80mg) actually increased the risk of death [00:16:31].

      4. Surprising "Losers" or Neutral Drugs * Metformin: Long considered a longevity staple, it showed no significant effect on lifespan in this specific cohort (HR 1.01) [00:11:22]. * ACE Inhibitors: Despite being common for blood pressure, they correlated with an 11% increase in mortality risk [00:10:36]. * Morfine & Opioids: Correlated with a 400%+ increase in mortality risk (HR ~5.5), likely due to the terminal conditions (cancer, post-surgery) for which they are prescribed [00:08:16]. * Paracetamol: Correlated with a 48% increase in mortality risk (HR 1.48) [00:08:50].

      5. Critical Insights * Correlation vs. Causation: Most drugs (92% of the 169 significant ones) showed a negative correlation with lifespan, largely because people who need medication are generally in poorer health [00:07:42]. * Flozin Paradox: SGLT2 inhibitors protect the heart and extend life significantly even though they increase LDL cholesterol, challenging the traditional view that lowering cholesterol is the only path to heart health [00:23:13]. * The Role of Nitric Oxide: PDE5 inhibitors are highlighted as "longevity drugs" of the future because they restore physiological arterial regulation [00:19:35].

    1. Jak uczyć się 10x szybciej? Dieta, mózg, pamięć - Bartosz Czekała

      How to Learn 10x Faster? – Summary of Bartosz Czekała’s Insights

      1. The Failures of Traditional Learning * The "Sieve" Effect: Traditional learning methods (reading textbooks, filling in blanks) are highly inefficient, resembling an attempt to carry water in a sieve [00:03:48]. * The Forgetting Curve: Based on Ebbinghaus’s research, without deliberate reviews, we lose about 80% of new information within a month [00:05:10]. * Passive vs. Active: Reading and highlighting are "passive encoding" methods that rarely result in long-term retention [00:03:52].

      2. The Foundation: Spaced Repetition Systems (SRS) * Algorithms over Intuition: Manual planning of reviews is impossible for large amounts of data. Using software like Anki is essential [00:19:12]. * How it Works: The program calculates the optimal interval for the next review (e.g., 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 1 month) based on your self-assessment of how well you remembered it [00:13:44]. * Reducing Decision Fatigue: The system makes learning "binary"—you simply open the app and complete whatever tasks are scheduled for that day [00:14:54].

      3. Techniques for Creating Effective Flashcards * Atomization: Each flashcard should contain exactly one question and one specific piece of information in the answer [00:26:09]. * Deep Encoding: Creating your own flashcards (rather than using pre-made decks) forces the brain to manipulate information, building stronger neural pathways [00:35:47]. * Contextualization: For language learning, the deepest encoding comes from creating sentences using the new word rather than just memorizing a definition [00:30:13].

      4. Language Learning Strategy (Case Study: Czech in One Month) * Pareto Principle: Start with frequency lists—memorize the words used most often in daily communication [00:46:36]. * Reference Points: Use analogies from languages you already know (e.g., using Polish or Russian roots to learn Czech) to drastically speed up the process [00:52:38]. * Self-Talk: Actively producing speech out loud, even to yourself, is the deepest form of active encoding [00:50:27].

      5. Diet and Lifestyle for Brain Optimization * The Danger of Sugar: Glucose spikes and high glycemic index meals hinder memory. Chronic high blood sugar can even lead to brain atrophy [00:02:52]. * Intermittent Fasting (16/8): Fasting increases blood flow and oxygen to the prefrontal cortex, enhancing logical thinking and concentration [00:14:10]. * Ketones: Low-carb diets and ketosis stabilize neuronal networks and provide "mental clarity" often missing in high-carb diets [01:13:14].

      6. Critique of Supplements and "Nootropics" * False Hopes: Most "smart drugs" provide negligible benefits (around 1%) compared to the massive gains from a proper learning system and diet [01:16:47]. * The Real Nootropic: The best way to learn faster is to accumulate knowledge. The more you know, the easier it is to "attach" new information to your existing mental framework [01:17:34].

    1. Sposoby by czuć się dobrze i być zdrowym za grosze | Bartosz Czekała

      EXTENDED SUMMARY: How to Feel Good and Be Healthy on a Budget

      In this deep-dive conversation, Bartosz Czekała explores the intersection of biology, psychology, and lifestyle, providing practical advice on how to optimize health without spending a fortune.

      1. The Biological Root of Mental Health

      • Inflammation and the Brain: Czekała argues that mental health issues like depression and anxiety are often driven by systemic inflammation. Chronic inflammation increases the permeability of the blood-brain barrier, allowing pro-inflammatory molecules to affect the brain [00:00:47].
      • Serotonin Inhibition: Inflammation doesn't just make you feel physically ill; it actively blocks the uptake of serotonin and lowers its overall levels, mimicking or causing clinical depression [00:00:36].
      • Therapy vs. Medication: He notes that while millions rely on antidepressants, psychotherapy often shows better long-term results. He emphasizes BDNF (Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor) as a critical marker for brain health and recovery [00:01:07].

      2. Hormonal Health and Body Composition

      • Fat as a Hormonal Organ: Adipose tissue (body fat) is not just stored energy; it is an active endocrine organ. The more body fat a person has, the higher the activity of an enzyme called aromatase [02:37:30].
      • The Testosterone-Estradiol Balance: In men, aromatase converts testosterone into estradiol (estrogen). High levels of body fat can lead to low testosterone and physical symptoms like gynecomastia ("man boobs") [02:37:48].
      • Risks of Steroid Use: Czekała warns against the misuse of exogenous testosterone (steroids), noting that supra-physiological doses are hepatotoxic (liver-damaging) and can damage the heart, often leading the body to convert excess testosterone into estrogen as a defense mechanism [02:38:09].

      3. Low-Cost "Biohacking" and Lifestyle

      • Ergonomics for Longevity: One of the cheapest health interventions is changing how you work. He suggests working from the floor or a mat rather than a traditional chair to maintain mobility and cardiovascular health during home office hours [00:00:26].
      • Nutrition as a Foundation: He advocates for a diet rich in high-quality animal products and nutrient-dense meats as a way to prevent deficiencies and maintain hormonal balance [00:03:36].
      • Nature and Circadian Rhythms: Simple, free practices like spending time outdoors, grounding, and aligning with natural light cycles are cited as powerful tools for reducing systemic inflammation.

      4. Diagnostics and Critical Thinking

      • Recommended Testing: To truly understand one's health, Czekała recommends testing not just Total Testosterone, but also Estradiol, DHEA-S, Androstenedione, and markers of systemic inflammation [02:38:54].
      • Evaluating Science: He draws a distinction between "hard" sciences (physics/math) and "soft" sciences (psychology/sociology). In human biology, results are rarely black-and-white; the answer is almost always "it depends" on the individual context [00:22:30].

      5. Conclusion

      The central takeaway is that health is a result of low inflammation, balanced hormones, and intentional movement. By focusing on biological fundamentals—diagnostics, diet, and environment—one can achieve significant health improvements without relying on expensive supplements or "magic pill" solutions.

    1. Note: This response was posted by the corresponding author to Review Commons. The content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Reply to the reviewers

      Reviewer #1* (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      Summary: In this study, the authors used proximity proteomics in U2OS cells to identify several E3 ubiquitin ligases recruited to stress granules (SGs), and they focused on MKRN2 as a novel regulator. They show that MKRN2 localization to SGs requires active ubiquitination via UBA1. Functional experiments demonstrated that MKRN2 knockdown increases the number of SG condensates, reduces their size, slightly raises SG liquidity during assembly, and slows disassembly after heat shock. Overexpression of MKRN2-GFP combined with confocal imaging revealed co-localization of MKRN2 and ubiquitin in SGs. By perturbing ubiquitination (using a UBA1 inhibitor) and inducing defective ribosomal products (DRiPs) with O-propargyl puromycin, they found that both ubiquitination inhibition and MKRN2 depletion lead to increased accumulation of DRiPs in SGs. The authors conclude that MKRN2 supports granulostasis, the maintenance of SG homeostasis , through its ubiquitin ligase activity, preventing pathological DRiP accumulation within SGs.

      Major comments: - Are the key conclusions convincing? The key conclusions are partially convincing. The data supporting the role of ubiquitination and MKRN2 in regulating SG condensate dynamics are coherent, well controlled, and consistent with previous literature, making this part of the study solid and credible. However, the conclusions regarding the ubiquitin-dependent recruitment of MKRN2 to SGs, its relationship with UBA1 activity, the functional impact of the MKRN2 knockdown for DRiP accumulation are less thoroughly supported. These aspects would benefit from additional mechanistic evidence, validation in complementary model systems, or the use of alternative methodological approaches to strengthen the causal connections drawn by the authors. - Should the authors qualify some of their claims as preliminary or speculative, or remove them altogether? The authors should qualify some of their claims as preliminary. 1) MKRN2 recruitment to SGs (ubiquitin-dependent): The proteomics and IF data are a reasonable starting point, but they do not yet establish that MKRN2 is recruited from its physiological localization to SGs in a ubiquitin-dependent manner. To avoid overstating this point the authors should qualify the claim and/or provide additional controls: show baseline localization of endogenous MKRN2 under non-stress conditions (which is reported in literature to be nuclear and cytoplasmatic), include quantification of nuclear/cytoplasmic distribution, and demonstrate a shift into bona fide SG compartments after heat shock. Moreover, co-localization of overexpressed GFP-MKRN2 with poly-Ub (FK2) should be compared to a non-stress control and to UBA1-inhibition conditions to support claims of stress- and ubiquitination-dependent recruitment. *

      Authors: We will stain cells for endogenous MKRN2 and quantify nuc/cyto ratio of MKRN2 without heat stress, without heat stress + TAK243, with HS and with HS + TAK243. We will do the same in the MKRN2-GFP overexpressing line while also staining for FK2.

      *2) Use and interpretation of UBA1 inhibition: UBA1 inhibition effectively blocks ubiquitination globally, but it is non-selective. The manuscript should explicitly acknowledge this limitation when interpreting results from both proteomics and functional assays. Proteomics hits identified under UBA1 inhibition should be discussed as UBA1-dependent associations rather than as evidence for specific E3 ligase recruitment. The authors should consider orthogonal approaches before concluding specificity. *

      Authors: We have acknowledged the limitation of using only TAK243 in our study by rephrasing statements about dependency on “ubiquitination” to “UBA1-dependent associations”.

      * 3) DRiP accumulation and imaging quality: The evidence presented in Figure 5 is sufficient to substantiate the claim that DRiPs accumulate in SGs upon ubiquitination inhibition or MKRN2 depletion but to show that the event of the SGs localization and their clearance from SGs during stress is promoted by MKRN3 ubiquitin ligase activity more experiments would be needed. *

      Authors: We have acknowledged the fact that our experiments do not include DRiP and SG dynamics assays using ligase-dead mutants of MKRN2 by altering our statement regarding MKRN2-mediated ubiquitination of DRiPs in the text (as proposed by reviewer 1).

      *- Would additional experiments be essential to support the claims of the paper? Request additional experiments only where necessary for the paper as it is, and do not ask authors to open new lines of experimentation. Yes, a few targeted experiments would strengthen the conclusions without requiring the authors to open new lines of investigation. 1) Baseline localization of MKRN2: It would be important to show the baseline localization of endogenous and over-expressed MKRN2 (nuclear and cytoplasmic) under non-stress conditions and prior to ubiquitination inhibition. This would provide a reference to quantify redistribution into SGs and demonstrate recruitment in response to heat stress or ubiquitination-dependent mechanisms. *

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for bringing this important control. We will address it in revisions.

      We will quantify the nuclear/cytoplasmic distribution of endogenous and GFP-MKRN2 under control, TAK243, heat shock, and combined conditions, and assess MKRN2–ubiquitin colocalization by FK2 staining in unstressed cells.

      * 2) Specificity of MKRN2 ubiquitin ligase activity: to address the non-specific effects of UBA1 inhibition and validate that observed phenotypes depend on MKRN2's ligase activity, the authors could employ a catalytically inactive MKRN2 mutant in rescue experiments. Comparing wild-type and catalytic-dead MKRN2 in the knockdown background would clarify the causal role of MKRN2 activity in SG dynamics and DRiP clearance. *

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and have altered the phrasing of some of our statements in the text accordingly.


      * 3) Ubiquitination linkage and SG marker levels: While the specific ubiquitin linkage type remains unknown, examining whether MKRN2 knockdown or overexpression affects total levels of key SG marker proteins would be informative. This could be done via Western blotting of SG markers along with ubiquitin staining, to assess whether MKRN2 influences protein stability or turnover through degradative or non-degradative ubiquitination. Such data would strengthen the mechanistic interpretation while remaining within the current study's scope. *

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for requesting and will address it by performing MKRN2 KD and perform Western blot for G3BP1.

      *

      • Are the suggested experiments realistic in terms of time and resources? It would help if you could add an estimated cost and time investment for substantial experiments. The experiments suggested in points 1 and 3 are realistic and should not require substantial additional resources beyond those already used in the study. • Point 1 (baseline localization of MKRN2): This involves adding two control conditions (no stress and no ubiquitination inhibition) for microscopy imaging. The setup is essentially the same as in the current experiments, with time requirements mainly dependent on cell culture growth and imaging. Overall, this could be completed within a few weeks. • Point 3 (SG marker levels and ubiquitination): This entails repeating the existing experiment and adding a Western blot for SG markers and ubiquitin. The lab should already have the necessary antibodies, and the experiment could reasonably be performed within a couple of weeks. • Point 2 (catalytically inactive MKRN2 mutant and rescue experiments): This is likely more time-consuming. Designing an effective catalytic-dead mutant depends on structural knowledge of MKRN2 and may require additional validation to confirm loss of catalytic activity. If this expertise is not already present in the lab, it could significantly extend the timeline. Therefore, this experiment should be considered only if similarly recommended by other reviewers, as it represents a higher resource and time investment.

      Overall, points 1 and 3 are highly feasible, while point 2 is more substantial and may require careful planning.

      • Are the data and the methods presented in such a way that they can be reproduced? Yes. The methodologies used in this study to analyze SG dynamics and DRiP accumulation are well-established in the field and should be reproducible, particularly by researchers experienced in stress granule biology. Techniques such as SG assembly and disassembly assays, use of G3BP1 markers, and UBA1 inhibition are standard and clearly described. The data are generally presented in a reproducible manner; however, as noted above, some results would benefit from additional controls or complementary experiments to fully support specific conclusions.

      • Are the experiments adequately replicated and statistical analysis adequate? Overall, the experiments in the manuscript appear to be adequately replicated, with most assays repeated between three and five times, as indicated in the supplementary materials. The statistical analyses used are appropriate and correctly applied to the datasets presented. However, for Figure 5 the number of experimental replicates is not reported. This should be clarified, and if the experiment was not repeated sufficiently, additional biological replicates should be performed. Given that this figure provides central evidence supporting the conclusion that DRiP accumulation depends on ubiquitination-and partly on MKRN2's ubiquitin ligase activity-adequate replication is essential. *

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for noting this accidental omission. We now clarify in the legend of Figure 5 that the experiments with DRiPs were replicated three times.

      Minor comments: - Specific experimental issues that are easily addressable. • For the generation and the validation of MKRN2 knockdown in UOS2 cells data are not presented in the results or in the methods sections to demonstrate the effective knockdown of the protein of interest. This point is quite essential to demonstrate the validity of the system used

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for requesting and will address it by performing MKRN2 KD and perform Western blot and RT-qPCR.

      • * In the supplementary figure 2 it would be useful to mention if the Western Blot represent the input (total cell lysates) before the APEX-pulldown or if it is the APEX-pulldown loaded for WB. There is no consistence in the difference of biotynilation between different replicates shown in the 2 blots. For example in R1 and R2 G3BP1-APX TAK243 the biotynilation is one if the strongest condition while on the left blot, in the same condition comparison samples R3 and R4 are less biotinilated compared to others. It would be useful to provide an explanation for that to avoid any confusion for the readers. * Authors: We have added a mention in the legend of Figure S2 that these are total cell lysates before pulldown. The apparent differences in biotin staining are small and not sufficient to question the results of our APEX-proteomics.

      • * In Figure 2D, endogenous MKRN2 localization to SGs appears reduced following UBA1 inhibition. However, it is not clear whether this reduction reflects a true relocalization or a decrease in total MKRN2 protein levels. To support the interpretation that UBA1 inhibition specifically affects MKRN2 recruitment to SGs rather than its overall expression, the authors should provide data showing total MKRN2 levels remain unchanged under UBA1 inhibition, for example via Western blot of total cell lysates. * Authors: Based on first principles in regulation of gene expression, it is unlikely that total MKRN2 expression levels would decrease appreciably through transcriptional or translational regulation within the short timescale of these experiments (1 h TAK243 pretreatment followed by 90 min of heat stress).

      • * DRIPs accumulation is followed during assembly but in the introduction is highlighted the fact that ubiquitination events, other reported E3 ligases and in this study data on MKRN2 showed that they play a crucial role in the disassembly of SGs which is also related with cleareance of DRIPs. Authors could add tracking DRIPs accumulation during disassembly to be added to Figure 5. I am not sure about the timeline required for this but I am just adding as optional if could be addressed easily. * Authors: We thank the reviewer for proposing this experimental direction. However, in a previous study (Ganassi et al., 2016; 10.1016/j.molcel.2016.07.021), we demonstrated that DRiP accumulation during the stress granule assembly phase drives conversion to a solid-like state and delays stress granule disassembly. It is therefore critical to assess DRiP enrichment within stress granules immediately after their formation, rather than during the stress recovery phase, as done here.

      • * The authors should clarify in the text why the cutoff used for the quantification in Figure 5D (PC > 3) differs from the cutoff used elsewhere in the paper (PC > 1.5). Providing a rationale for this choice will help the reader understand the methodological consistency and ensure that differences in thresholds do not confound interpretation of the results. * Authors: We thank the reviewer for this question. The population of SGs with a DRiP enrichment > 1.5 represents SGs with a significant DRiP enrichment compared to the surrounding (background) signal. As explained in the methods, the intensity of DRiPs inside each SG is corrected by the intensity of DRiPs two pixels outside of each SG. Thus, differences in thresholds between independent experimental conditions (5B versus 5D) do not confound interpretation of the results but depend on overall staining intensity that can different between different experimental conditions. Choosing the cut-off > 3 allows to specifically highlight the population of SGs that are strongly enriched with DRiPs. MKRN2 silencing caused a strong DRiP enrichment in the majority of the SGs analyzed and therefore we chose this way of data representation. Note that the results represent the average of the analysis of 3 independent experiments with high numbers of SGs automatically segmented and analyzed/experiment. Figure 5A, B: n = 3 independent experiments; number of SGs analyzed per experiment: HS + OP-puro (695; 1216; 952); TAK-243 + HS + OP-puro (1852; 2214; 1774). Figure 5C, D: n = 3 independent experiments; number of SGs analyzed per experiment: siRNA control, HS + OP-puro (1984; 1400; 1708); siRNA MKRN2, HS + OP-puro (912; 1074; 1532).

      • * For Figure 3G, the authors use over-expressed MKRN2-GFP to assess co-localization with ubiquitin in SGs. Given that a reliable antibody for endogenous MKRN2 is available and that a validated MKRN2 knockdown line exists as an appropriate control, this experiment would gain significantly in robustness and interpretability if co-localization were demonstrated using endogenous MKRN2. In the current over-expression system, MKRN2-GFP is also present in the nucleus, whereas the endogenous protein does not appear nuclear under the conditions shown. This discrepancy raises concerns about potential over-expression artifacts or mislocalization. Demonstrating co-localization using endogenous MKRN2 would avoid confounding effects associated with over-expression. If feasible, this would be a relatively straightforward experiment to implement, as it relies on tools (antibody and knockdown line) already described in the manuscript.

      * Authors: We thank the reviewer for requesting and will address it by performing MKRN2 KD, FK2 immunofluorescence microscopy and perform SG partition coefficient analysis.

      * - Are prior studies referenced appropriately? • From line 54 to line 67, the manuscript in total cites eight papers regarding the role of ubiquitination in SG disassembly. However, given the use of UBA1 inhibition in the initial MS-APEX experiment and the extensive prior literature on ubiquitination in SG assembly and disassembly under various stress conditions, the manuscript would benefit from citing additional relevant studies to provide more specifc examples. Expanding the references would provide stronger context, better connect the current findings to prior work, and emphasize the significance of the study in relation to established literature *

      Authors: We have added citations for the relevant studies.

      • *

      At line 59, it would be helpful to note that G3BP1 is ubiquitinated by TRIM21 through a Lys63-linked ubiquitin chain. This information provides important mechanistic context, suggesting that ubiquitination of SG proteins in these pathways is likely non-degradative and related to functional regulation of SG dynamics rather than protein turnover. * Authors: The reviewer is correct. We have added to the text that G3BP1 is ubiquitinated through a Lys63-linked ubiquitin chain.

      • *

      When citing references 16 and 17, which report that the E3 ligases TRIM21 and HECT regulate SG formation, the authors should provide a plausible explanation for why these specific E3 ligases were not detected in their proteomics experiments. Differences could arise from the stress stimulus used, cell type, or experimental conditions. Similarly, since MKRN2 and other E3 ligases identified in this study have not been reported in previous works, discussing these methodological or biological differences would help prevent readers from questioning the credibility of the findings. It would also be valuable to clarify in the Conclusion that different types of stress may activate distinct ubiquitination pathways, highlighting context-dependent regulation of SG assembly and disassembly. * Authors: We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We added to the discussion plausible explanations for why our study identified new E3 ligases.

      • *

      Line 59-60: when referring to the HECT family of E3 ligases involved in ubiquitination and SG disassembly, it would be more precise to report the specific E3 ligase identified in the cited studies rather than only the class of ligase. This would provide clearer mechanistic context and improve accuracy for readers. * Authors: We have added this detail to the discussion.

      • *

      The specific statement on line 182 "SG E3 ligases that depend on UBA1 activity are RBULs" should be supported by reference. * Authors: We have added citations to back up our claim that ZNF598, CNOT4, MKRN2, TRIM25 and TRIM26 exhibit RNA-binding activity.

      *- Are the text and figures clear and accurate?

      • In Supplementary Figure 1, DMSO is shown in green and the treatment in red, whereas in the main figures (Figure 1B and 1F) the colours in the legend are inverted. To avoid confusion, the colour coding in figure legends should be consistent across all figures throughout the manuscript. *

      Authors: We have made the colors consistent across the main and supplementary figures.

      • *

      At line 79, the manuscript states that "inhibition of ubiquitination delayed fluorescence recovery dynamics of G3BP1-mCherry, relative to HS-treated cells (Figure 1F, Supplementary Fig. 6A)." However, the data shown in Figure 1F appear to indicate the opposite effect: the TAK243-treated condition (green curve) shows a faster fluorescence recovery compared to the control (red curve). This discrepancy between the text and the figure should be corrected or clarified, as it may affect the interpretation of the role of ubiquitination in SG dynamics. * Authors: Good catch. We now fixed the graphical mistake (Figure 1F and S6).

      • * Line 86: adjust a missing bracket * Authors: Thank you, we fixed it.

      • *

      There appears to be an error in the legend of Supplementary Figure 3: the legend states that the red condition (MKRN2) forms larger aggregates, but both the main Figure 3C of the confocal images and the text indicate that MKRN2 (red) forms smaller aggregates. Please correct the legend and any corresponding labels so they are consistent with the main figure and the text. The authors should also double-check that the figure panel order, color coding, and statistical annotations match the legend and the descriptions in the Results section to avoid reader confusion.

      * Authors: This unfortunate graphical mistake has been corrected.

      • * At lines 129-130, the manuscript states that "FRAP analysis demonstrated that MKRN2 KD resulted in a slight increase in SG liquidity (Fig. 3F, Supplementary Fig. 6B)." However, the data shown in Figure 3F appear to indicate the opposite trend: the MKRN2 KD condition (red curve) exhibits a faster fluorescence recovery compared to the control (green curve). This discrepancy between the text and the figure should be corrected or clarified, as it directly affects the interpretation of MKRN2's role in SG disassembly. Ensuring consistency between the written description and the plotted FRAP data is essential for accurate interpretation. * Authors: We thank the reviewer and clarify in the legend of Figure 3F and the Results the correct labels: indeed faster fluorescence recovery seen in MKRN2 KD is correctly interpreted as increased liquidity in the text.

      • *

      At lines 132-133, the manuscript states: "Then, to further test the impact of MKRN2 on SG dynamics, we overexpressed MKRN2-GFP and observed that it was recruited to SG (Fig. 3G)." This description should be corrected or clarified, as the over-expressed MKRN2-GFP also appears to localize to the nucleus. * Authors: The text has been modified to reflect both the study of MKRN2 localization to SGs and of nuclear localization.

      • *

      At lines 134-135, the manuscript states that the FK2 antibody detects "free ubiquitin." This is incorrect. FK2 does not detect free ubiquitin; it recognizes only ubiquitin conjugates, including mono-ubiquitinated and poly-ubiquitinated proteins. The text should be corrected accordingly to avoid misinterpretation of the immunostaining data. * Authors: Thank you for pointing out this error. We have corrected it.

      • * Figure 5A suffers from poor resolution, and no scale bar is provided, which limits interpretability. Additionally, the ROI selected for the green channel (DRIPs) appears to capture unspecific background staining, while the most obvious DRIP spots are localized in the nucleus. The authors should clarify this in the text, improve the image quality if possible, and ensure that the ROI accurately represents DRIP accumulation - in SGs rather than background signal. * Authors: We thank the reviewer for pointing the sub-optimal presentation of this figure. We modified Figure 5A to improve image quality and interpretation. Concerning the comment that “the most obvious DRIP spots are localized in the nucleus”, this is in line with our previous findings demonstrating that a fraction of DRiPs accumulates in nucleoli (Mediani et al. 2019 10.15252/embj.2018101341). To avoid misinterpretation, we modified Figure 5A as follows: (i) we provide a different image for control cells, exposed to heat shock and OP-puro; (ii) we select a ROI that only shows a few stress granules; (iii) we added arrowheads to indicate the nucleoli that are strongly enriched for DRiPs; (iv) we include a dotted line to show the nuclear membrane, helping to distinguish cytoplasm and nucleus in the red and green channel. We also include the scale bars (5 µm) in the image.

      * Do you have suggestions that would help the authors improve the presentation of their data and conclusions?

      • In the first paragraph following the APEX proteomics results, the authors present validation data exclusively for MKRN2, justifying this early focus by stating that MKRN2 is the most SG-depleted E3 ligase. However, in the subsequent paragraph they introduce the RBULs and present knockdown data for MKRN2 along with two additional E3 ligases identified in the screen, before once again emphasizing that MKRN2 is the most SG-depleted ligase and therefore the main focus of the study. For clarity and logical flow, the manuscript would benefit from reordering the narrative. Specifically, the authors should first present the validation data for all three selected E3 ligases, and only then justify the decision to focus on MKRN2 for in-depth characterization. In addition to the extent of its SG depletion, the authors may also consider providing biologically relevant reasons for prioritizing MKRN2 (e.g., domain architecture, known roles in stress responses, or prior evidence of ubiquitination-related functions). Reorganizing this section would improve readability and better guide the reader through the rationale for the study's focus.*

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for this suggested improvement to our “storyline”. As suggested by the reviewer, we have moved the IF validation of MKRN2 to the following paragraph in order to improve the flow of the manuscript. We added additional justification to prioritizing MKRN2 citing (Youn et al. 2018 and Markmiller et al. 2018).

      • *

      At lines 137-138, the manuscript states: "Together these data indicate that MKRN2 regulates the assembly dynamics of SGs by promoting their coalescence during HS and can increase SG ubiquitin content." While Figure 3G shows some co-localization of MKRN2 with ubiquitin, immunofluorescence alone is insufficient to claim an increase in SG ubiquitin content. This conclusion should be supported by orthogonal experiments, such as Western blotting, in vitro ubiquitination assays, or immunoprecipitation of SG components. Including a control under no-stress conditions would also help demonstrate that ubiquitination increases specifically in response to stress. The second part of the statement should therefore be rephrased to avoid overinterpretation, for example:"...and may be associated with increased ubiquitination within SGs, as suggested by co-localization, pending further validation by complementary assays." * Authors: The statement has been rephrased in a softer way as suggested by the reviewer.

      • At line 157, the statement: "Therefore, we conclude that MKRN2 ubiquitinates a subset of DRiPs, avoiding their accumulation inside SGs" should be rephrased as a preliminary observation. While the data support a role for MKRN2 in SG disassembly and a reduction of DRIPs, direct ubiquitination of DRIPs by MKRN2 has not been demonstrated. A more cautious phrasing would better reflect the current evidence and avoid overinterpretation. * * *Authors: We thank the reviewer for this suggestion and have altered the phrasing of this statement accordingly.

      *Reviewer #1 (Significance (Required)):

      General assessment: provide a summary of the strengths and limitations of the study. What are the strongest and most important aspects? What aspects of the study should be improved or could be developed?

      • This study provides a valuable advancement in understanding the role of ubiquitination in stress granule (SG) dynamics and the clearance of SGs formed under heat stress. A major strength is the demonstration of how E3 ligases identified through proteomic screening, particularly MKRN2, influence SG assembly and disassembly in a ubiquitination- and heat stress-dependent manner. The combination of proteomics, imaging, and functional assays provides a coherent mechanistic framework linking ubiquitination to SG homeostasis. Limitations of the study include the exclusive use of a single model system (U2OS cells), which may limit generalizability. Additionally, some observations-such as MKRN2-dependent ubiquitination within SGs and changes in DRIP accumulation under different conditions-would benefit from orthogonal validation experiments (e.g., Western blotting, immunoprecipitation, or in vitro assays) to confirm and strengthen these findings. Addressing these points would enhance the robustness and broader applicability of the conclusions.

      Advance: compare the study to the closest related results in the literature or highlight results reported for the first time to your knowledge; does the study extend the knowledge in the field and in which way? Describe the nature of the advance and the resulting insights (for example: conceptual, technical, clinical, mechanistic, functional,...).

      • The closest related result in literature is - Yang, Cuiwei et al. "Stress granule homeostasis is modulated by TRIM21-mediated ubiquitination of G3BP1 and autophagy-dependent elimination of stress granules." Autophagy vol. 19,7 (2023): 1934-1951. doi:10.1080/15548627.2022.2164427 - demonstrating that TRIM21, an E3 ubiquitin ligase, catalyzes K63-linked ubiquitination of G3BP1, a core SG nucleator, under oxidative stress. This ubiquitination by TRIM21 inhibits SG formation, likely by altering G3BP1's propensity for phase separation. In contrast, the MKRN2 study identifies a different E3 (MKRN2) that regulates SG dynamics under heat stress and appears to influence both assembly and disassembly. This expands the role of ubiquitin ligases in SG regulation beyond those previously studied (like TRIM21).

      • Gwon and colleagues (Gwon Y, Maxwell BA, Kolaitis RM, Zhang P, Kim HJ, Taylor JP. Ubiquitination of G3BP1 mediates stress granule disassembly in a context-specific manner. Science. 2021;372(6549):eabf6548. doi:10.1126/science.abf6548) have shown that K63-linked ubiquitination of G3BP1 is required for SG disassembly after heat stress. This ubiquitinated G3BP1 recruits the segregase VCP/p97, which helps extract G3BP1 from SGs for disassembly. The MKRN2 paper builds on this by linking UBA1-dependent ubiquitination and MKRN2's activity to SG disassembly. Specifically, they show MKRN2 knockdown affects disassembly, and suggest MKRN2 helps prevent accumulation of defective ribosomal products (DRiPs) in SGs, adding a new layer to the ubiquitin-VCP model.

      • Ubiquitination's impact is highly stress- and context-dependent (different chain types, ubiquitin linkages, and recruitment of E3s). The MKRN2 work conceptually strengthens this idea: by showing that MKRN2's engagement with SGs depends on active ubiquitination via UBA1, and by demonstrating functional consequences (SG dynamics + DRIP accumulation), the study highlights how cellular context (e.g., heat stress) can recruit specific ubiquitin ligases to SGs and modulate their behavior.

      • There is a gap in the literature: very few (if any) studies explicitly combine the biology of DRIPs, stress granules, and E3 ligase mediated ubiquitination, especially in mammalian cells. There are relevant works about DRIP biology in stress granules, but those studies focus on chaperone-based quality control, not ubiquitin ligase-mediated ubiquitination of DRIPs. This study seems to be one of the first to make that connection in mammalian (or human-like) SG biology. A work on the plant DRIP-E3 ligase TaSAP5 (Zhang N, Yin Y, Liu X, et al. The E3 Ligase TaSAP5 Alters Drought Stress Responses by Promoting the Degradation of DRIP Proteins. Plant Physiol. 2017;175(4):1878-1892. doi:10.1104/pp.17.01319 ) shows that DRIPs can be directly ubiquitinated by E3s in other biological systems - which supports the plausibility of the MKRN2 mechanism, but it's not the same context.

      • A very recent review (Yuan, Lin et al. "Stress granules: emerging players in neurodegenerative diseases." Translational neurodegeneration vol. 14,1 22. 12 May. 2025, doi:10.1186/s40035-025-00482-9) summarizes and reinforces the relationship among SGs and the pathogenesis of different neurodegenerative diseases (NDDs). By identifying MKRN2 as a new ubiquitin regulator in SGs, the current study could have relevance for neurodegeneration and proteotoxic diseases, providing a new candidate to explore in disease models.

      Audience: describe the type of audience ("specialized", "broad", "basic research", "translational/clinical", etc...) that will be interested or influenced by this research; how will this research be used by others; will it be of interest beyond the specific field?

      The audience for this paper is primarily specialized, including researchers in stress granule biology, ubiquitin signaling, protein quality control, ribosome biology, and cellular stress responses. The findings will also be of interest to scientists working on granulostasis, nascent protein surveillance, and proteostasis mechanisms. Beyond these specific fields, the study provides preliminary evidence linking ubiquitination to DRIP handling and SG dynamics, which may stimulate new research directions and collaborative efforts across complementary areas of cell biology and molecular biology.

      • Please define your field of expertise with a few keywords to help the authors contextualize your point of view. Indicate if there are any parts of the paper that you do not have sufficient expertise to evaluate.

      I work in ubiquitin biology, focusing on ubiquitination signaling in physiological and disease contexts, with particular expertise in the identification of E3 ligases and their substrates across different cellular systems and in vivo models. I have less expertise in stress granule dynamics and DRiP biology, so my evaluation of those aspects is more limited and relies on interpretation of the data presented in the manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      This study identifies the E3 ubiquitin ligase Makorin 2 (MKRN2) as a novel regulator of stress granule (SG) dynamics and proteostasis. Using APEX proximity proteomics, the authors demonstrate that inhibition of the ubiquitin-activating enzyme UBA1 with TAK243 alters the SG proteome, leading to depletion of several E3 ligases, chaperones, and VCP cofactors. Detailed characterization of MKRN2 reveals that it localizes to SGs in a ubiquitination-dependent manner and is required for proper SG assembly, coalescence, and disassembly. Functionally, MKRN2 prevents the accumulation of defective ribosomal products (DRiPs) within SGs, thereby maintaining granulostasis. The study provides compelling evidence that ubiquitination, mediated specifically by MKRN2, plays a critical role in surveilling stress-damaged proteins within SGs and maintaining their dynamic liquid-like properties. Major issues: 1. Figures 1-2: Temporal dynamics of ubiquitination in SGs. The APEX proteomics was performed at a single timepoint (90 min heat stress), yet the live imaging data show that SG dynamics and TAK243 effects vary considerably over time: • The peak or SG nucleation was actually at 10-30 min (Figure 1B). • TAK243 treatment causes earlier SG nucleation (Figure 1B) but delayed disassembly (Figure 1A-B, D). A temporal proteomic analysis at multiple timepoints (e.g., 30 min, 60 min, 90 min of heat stress, and during recovery) would reveal whether MKRN2 and other ubiquitination-dependent proteins are recruited to SGs dynamically during the stress response. It would also delineate whether different E3 ligases predominate at different stages of the SG lifecycle. While such experiments may be beyond the scope of the current study, the authors should at minimum discuss this limitation and acknowledge that the single-timepoint analysis may miss dynamic changes in SG composition. *

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for identifying this caveat in our methodology. We now discuss this limitation and acknowledge that the single-timepoint analysis may miss dynamic changes in SG composition.

      * Figures 2D-E, 3G: MKRN2 localization mechanism requires clarification. The authors demonstrate that MKRN2 localization to SGs is dependent on active ubiquitination, as TAK243 treatment significantly reduces MKRN2 partitioning into SGs (Figure 2D-E). However, several mechanistic questions remain: • Does MKRN2 localize to SGs through binding to ubiquitinated substrates within SGs, or does MKRN2 require its own ubiquitination activity to enter SGs? • The observation that MKRN2 overexpression increases SG ubiquitin content (Figure 3G-H) could indicate either: (a) MKRN2 actively ubiquitinates substrates within SGs, or (b) MKRN2 recruitment brings along pre-ubiquitinated substrates from the cytoplasm. • Is MKRN2 localization to SGs dependent on its E3 ligase activity? A catalytically inactive mutant of MKRN2 would help distinguish whether MKRN2 must actively ubiquitinate proteins to remain in SGs or whether it binds to ubiquitinated proteins independently of its catalytic activity. The authors should clarify whether MKRN2's SG localization depends on its catalytic activity or on binding to ubiquitinated proteins, as this would fundamentally affect the interpretation of its role in SG dynamics. *

      Authors: We thank the reviewer for this experimental suggestion. We will perform an analysis of the SG partitioning coefficient between WT-MKRN2 and a RING mutant of MKRN2.

      * Figures 3-4: Discrepancy between assembly and disassembly phenotypes. MKRN2 knockdown produces distinct phenotypes during SG assembly versus disassembly. During assembly: smaller, more numerous SGs that fail to coalesce (Figure 3A-E), while during disassembly: delayed SG clearance (Figure 4A-D). These phenotypes may reflect different roles for MKRN2 at different stages, but the mechanism underlying this stage-specificity is unclear: • Does MKRN2 have different substrates or utilize different ubiquitin chain types during assembly versus disassembly? • The increased SG liquidity upon MKRN2 depletion (Figure 3F) seems paradoxical with delayed disassembly- typically more liquid condensates disassemble faster. The authors interpret this as decreased coalescence into "dense and mature SGs," but this requires clarification. • How does prevention of DRiP accumulation relate to the assembly defect? One would predict that DRiP accumulation would primarily affect disassembly (by reducing liquidity), yet MKRN2 depletion impacts both assembly dynamics and DRiP accumulation. The authors should discuss how MKRN2's role in preventing DRiP accumulation mechanistically connects to both the assembly and disassembly phenotypes. *

      Authors: We thank the reviewer and will add to the Discussion a mention of a precedent for this precise phenotype from our previous work (Seguin et al., 2014).

      * Figure 5: Incomplete characterization of MKRN2 substrates. While the authors convincingly demonstrate that MKRN2 prevents DRiP accumulation in SGs (Figure 5C-D), the direct substrates of MKRN2 remain unknown. The authors acknowledge in the limitations that "the direct MKRN2 substrates and ubiquitin-chain types (K63/K48) are currently unknown." However, several approaches could strengthen the mechanistic understanding: • Do DRiPs represent direct MKRN2 substrates? Co-immunoprecipitation of MKRN2 followed by ubiquitin-chain specific antibodies (K48 vs K63) could reveal whether MKRN2 mediates degradative (K48) or non-degradative (K63) ubiquitination. *

      Authors: The DRiPs generated in the study represent truncated versions of all the proteins that were in the process of being synthesized by the cell at the moment of the stress, and therefore include both MKRN2 specific substrates and MKRN2 independent substrates. Identifying specific MKRN2 substrates, while interesting as a new research avenue, is not within the scope of the present study.

      • * Given that VCP cofactors (such as UFD1L, PLAA) are depleted from SGs upon UBA1 inhibition (Figure 2C) and these cofactors recognize ubiquitinated substrates, does MKRN2 function upstream of VCP recruitment? Testing whether MKRN2 depletion affects VCP cofactor localization to SGs would clarify this pathway. * Authors: We thank the reviewer for requesting and will address it by performing MKRN2 KD, VCP immunofluorescence microscopy and perform SG partition coefficient analysis.

      • * The authors note that MKRN2 knockdown produces a phenotype reminiscent of VCP inhibition-smaller, more numerous SGs with increased DRiP partitioning. This similarity suggests MKRN2 may function in the same pathway as VCP. Direct epistasis experiments would strengthen this connection. * Authors: This study is conditional results of the above study. If VCP partitioning to SGs is reduced upon MKRN2 KD, which we do not know at this point, then MKRN2/VCP double KD experiment will be performed to strengthen this connection.

      * Alternative explanations for the phenotype of delayed disassembly with TAK243 or MKRN2 depletion- the authors attribute this to DRiP accumulation, but TAK243 affects global ubiquitination. Could impaired degradation of other SG proteins (not just DRiPs) contribute to delayed disassembly? Does proteasome inhibition (MG-132 treatment) phenocopy the MKRN2 depletion phenotype? This would support that MKRN2-mediated proteasomal degradation (via K48 ubiquitin chains) is key to the phenotype. *

      Authors: We are happy to provide alternative explanations in the Discussion in line with Reviewer #2 suggestion. The role of the proteosome is out of the scope of our study.

      • Comparison with other E3 ligases (Supplementary Figure 5): The authors show that CNOT4 and ZNF598 depletion also affect SG dynamics, though to lesser extents than MKRN2. However: • Do these E3 ligases also prevent DRiP accumulation in SGs? Testing OP-puro partitioning in CNOT4- or ZNF598-depleted cells would reveal whether DRiP clearance is a general feature of SG-localized E3 ligases or specific to MKRN2. *

      • * Are there redundant or compensatory relationships between these E3 ligases? Do double knockdowns have additive effects? * Authors: Our paper presents a study of the E3 ligase MKRN2. Generalizing these observations to ZNF598, CNOT4 and perhaps an even longer list of E3s, may be an interesting question, outside the scope of our mission.

      • * The authors note that MKRN2 is "the most highly SG-depleted E3 upon TAK243 treatment"-does this mean MKRN2 has the strongest dependence on active ubiquitination for its SG localization, or simply that it has the highest basal level of SG partitioning? * Authors: We thank the reviewer for this smart question. MKRN2 has the strongest dependence on active ubiquitination as we now clarify better in the Results.

      *Reviewer #2 (Significance (Required)):

      This is a well-executed study that identifies MKRN2 as an important regulator of stress granule dynamics and proteostasis. The combination of proximity proteomics, live imaging, and functional assays provides strong evidence for MKRN2's role in preventing DRiP accumulation and maintaining granulostasis. However, key mechanistic questions remain, particularly regarding MKRN2's direct substrates, the ubiquitin chain types it generates, and how its enzymatic activity specifically prevents DRiP accumulation while promoting both SG coalescence and disassembly. Addressing the suggested revisions, particularly those related to MKRN2's mechanism of SG localization and substrate specificity, would significantly strengthen the manuscript and provide clearer insights into how ubiquitination maintains the dynamic properties of stress granules under proteotoxic stress.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      In this paper, Amzallag et al. investigate the relationship between ubiquitination and the dynamics of stress granules (SGs). They utilize proximity ligation coupled mass spectrometry to identify SG components under conditions where the proteasome is inhibited by a small drug that targets UBiquitin-like modifier Activating enzyme 1 (UBA1), which is crucial for the initial step in the ubiquitination of misfolded proteins. Their findings reveal that the E3 ligase Makorin2 (MKRN2) is a novel component of SGs. Additionally, their data suggest that MKRN2 is necessary for processing damaged ribosome-associated proteins (DRIPs) during heat shock (HS). In the absence of MKRN2, DRIPs accumulate in SGs, which affects their dynamics. Major comments: Assess the knockdown efficiency (KD) for CNOT1, ZNF598, and MKRN2 to determine if the significant effect observed on SG dynamics upon MKRN2 depletion is due to the protein's function rather than any possible differences in KD efficiency. *

      Authors: To address potential variability in knockdown efficiency, we will quantify CNOT4, ZNF598, and MKRN2 mRNA levels by RT-qPCR following siRNA knockdown.

      * Since HS-induced stress granules (SGs) are influenced by the presence of TAK-243 or MKRN2 depletion, could it be that these granules become more mature and thus acquire more defective ribosomal products (DRIPs)? Do HS cells reach the same level of DRIPs, as assessed by OP-Puro staining, at a later time point? *

      Authors: an interesting question. Mateju et al. carefully characterized the time course of DRiP accumulation in stress granules during heat shock, decreasing after the 90 minutes point (Appendix Figure S7; 10.15252/embj.201695957). We therefore interpret DRiP accumulation in stress granules following TAK243 treatment as a pathological state, reflecting impaired removal and degradation of DRiPs, rather than a normal, more “mature” stress granule state.

      * Incorporating OP-Puro can lead to premature translation termination, potentially confounding results. Consider treating cells with a short pulse (i.e., 5 minutes) of OP-Puro just before fixation. *

      Authors: Thank you for this suggestion. Treating the cell with a short pulse of OP-Puro just before fixation will lead to the labelling of a small amount of proteins, likely undetectable using conventional microscopy or Western blotting. Furthermore, it will lead to the unwanted labeling of stress responsive proteins that are translated with non canonical cap-independent mechanisms upon stress.

      * Is MKRN2's dependence limited to HS-induced SGs? *

      Authors: We will test sodium arsenite–induced stress and use immunofluorescence at discrete time points to assess whether the heat shock–related observations generalize to other stress types.

      *

      Minor comments: Abstract: Introduce UBA1. Introduction: The reference [2] should be replaced with 25719440. Results: Line 70, 'G3BP1 and 2 genes,' is somewhat misleading. Consider rephrasing into 'G3BP1 and G3BP2 genes'. Line 103: considers rephrasing 'we orthogonally validated the ubiquitin-dependent interaction' to 'we orthogonally validated the ubiquitin-dependent stress granule localization'. Line 125: '(fig.3C, EI Supplementary fig. 3)' Remove 'I'. Methods: line 260: the reference is not linked (it should be ref. [26]). Line 225: Are all the KDs being performed using the same method? Please specify. *

      Authors: The text has been altered to reflect the reviewer’s suggestions.

      *Fig.2C: Consider adding 'DEPLETED' on top of the scheme.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance (Required)):

      The study offers valuable insights into the degradative processes associated with SGs. The figures are clear, and the experimental quality is high. The authors do not overstate or overinterpret their findings, and the results effectively support their claims. However, the study lacks orthogonal methods to validate the findings and enhance the results. For instance, incorporating biochemical and reporter-based methods to measure degradation-related intermediate products (DRIPs) would be beneficial. Additionally, utilizing multiple methods to block ubiquitination, studying the dynamics of MKRN2 on SGs, and examining the consequences of excessive DRIPs on the cell fitness of SGs would further strengthen the research. *

    2. Note: This preprint has been reviewed by subject experts for Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Referee #2

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      This study identifies the E3 ubiquitin ligase Makorin 2 (MKRN2) as a novel regulator of stress granule (SG) dynamics and proteostasis. Using APEX proximity proteomics, the authors demonstrate that inhibition of the ubiquitin-activating enzyme UBA1 with TAK243 alters the SG proteome, leading to depletion of several E3 ligases, chaperones, and VCP cofactors. Detailed characterization of MKRN2 reveals that it localizes to SGs in a ubiquitination-dependent manner and is required for proper SG assembly, coalescence, and disassembly. Functionally, MKRN2 prevents the accumulation of defective ribosomal products (DRiPs) within SGs, thereby maintaining granulostasis. The study provides compelling evidence that ubiquitination, mediated specifically by MKRN2, plays a critical role in surveilling stress-damaged proteins within SGs and maintaining their dynamic liquid-like properties.

      Major issues:

      1. Figures 1-2: Temporal dynamics of ubiquitination in SGs. The APEX proteomics was performed at a single timepoint (90 min heat stress), yet the live imaging data show that SG dynamics and TAK243 effects vary considerably over time:
        • The peak or SG nucleation was actually at 10-30 min (Figure 1B).
        • TAK243 treatment causes earlier SG nucleation (Figure 1B) but delayed disassembly (Figure 1A-B, D). A temporal proteomic analysis at multiple timepoints (e.g., 30 min, 60 min, 90 min of heat stress, and during recovery) would reveal whether MKRN2 and other ubiquitination-dependent proteins are recruited to SGs dynamically during the stress response. It would also delineate whether different E3 ligases predominate at different stages of the SG lifecycle. While such experiments may be beyond the scope of the current study, the authors should at minimum discuss this limitation and acknowledge that the single-timepoint analysis may miss dynamic changes in SG composition.
      2. Figures 2D-E, 3G: MKRN2 localization mechanism requires clarification. The authors demonstrate that MKRN2 localization to SGs is dependent on active ubiquitination, as TAK243 treatment significantly reduces MKRN2 partitioning into SGs (Figure 2D-E). However, several mechanistic questions remain:
        • Does MKRN2 localize to SGs through binding to ubiquitinated substrates within SGs, or does MKRN2 require its own ubiquitination activity to enter SGs?
        • The observation that MKRN2 overexpression increases SG ubiquitin content (Figure 3G-H) could indicate either: (a) MKRN2 actively ubiquitinates substrates within SGs, or (b) MKRN2 recruitment brings along pre-ubiquitinated substrates from the cytoplasm.
        • Is MKRN2 localization to SGs dependent on its E3 ligase activity? A catalytically inactive mutant of MKRN2 would help distinguish whether MKRN2 must actively ubiquitinate proteins to remain in SGs or whether it binds to ubiquitinated proteins independently of its catalytic activity. The authors should clarify whether MKRN2's SG localization depends on its catalytic activity or on binding to ubiquitinated proteins, as this would fundamentally affect the interpretation of its role in SG dynamics.
      3. Figures 3-4: Discrepancy between assembly and disassembly phenotypes. MKRN2 knockdown produces distinct phenotypes during SG assembly versus disassembly. During assembly: smaller, more numerous SGs that fail to coalesce (Figure 3A-E), while during disassembly: delayed SG clearance (Figure 4A-D). These phenotypes may reflect different roles for MKRN2 at different stages, but the mechanism underlying this stage-specificity is unclear:
        • Does MKRN2 have different substrates or utilize different ubiquitin chain types during assembly versus disassembly?
        • The increased SG liquidity upon MKRN2 depletion (Figure 3F) seems paradoxical with delayed disassembly- typically more liquid condensates disassemble faster. The authors interpret this as decreased coalescence into "dense and mature SGs," but this requires clarification.
        • How does prevention of DRiP accumulation relate to the assembly defect? One would predict that DRiP accumulation would primarily affect disassembly (by reducing liquidity), yet MKRN2 depletion impacts both assembly dynamics and DRiP accumulation. The authors should discuss how MKRN2's role in preventing DRiP accumulation mechanistically connects to both the assembly and disassembly phenotypes.
      4. Figure 5: Incomplete characterization of MKRN2 substrates. While the authors convincingly demonstrate that MKRN2 prevents DRiP accumulation in SGs (Figure 5C-D), the direct substrates of MKRN2 remain unknown. The authors acknowledge in the limitations that "the direct MKRN2 substrates and ubiquitin-chain types (K63/K48) are currently unknown." However, several approaches could strengthen the mechanistic understanding:
        • Do DRiPs represent direct MKRN2 substrates? Co-immunoprecipitation of MKRN2 followed by ubiquitin-chain specific antibodies (K48 vs K63) could reveal whether MKRN2 mediates degradative (K48) or non-degradative (K63) ubiquitination.
        • Given that VCP cofactors (such as UFD1L, PLAA) are depleted from SGs upon UBA1 inhibition (Figure 2C) and these cofactors recognize ubiquitinated substrates, does MKRN2 function upstream of VCP recruitment? Testing whether MKRN2 depletion affects VCP cofactor localization to SGs would clarify this pathway.
        • The authors note that MKRN2 knockdown produces a phenotype reminiscent of VCP inhibition-smaller, more numerous SGs with increased DRiP partitioning. This similarity suggests MKRN2 may function in the same pathway as VCP. Direct epistasis experiments would strengthen this connection.
      5. Alternative explanations for the phenotype of delayed disassembly with TAK243 or MKRN2 depletion- the authors attribute this to DRiP accumulation, but TAK243 affects global ubiquitination. Could impaired degradation of other SG proteins (not just DRiPs) contribute to delayed disassembly? Does proteasome inhibition (MG-132 treatment) phenocopy the MKRN2 depletion phenotype? This would support that MKRN2-mediated proteasomal degradation (via K48 ubiquitin chains) is key to the phenotype.
      6. Comparison with other E3 ligases (Supplementary Figure 5): The authors show that CNOT4 and ZNF598 depletion also affect SG dynamics, though to lesser extents than MKRN2. However:
        • Do these E3 ligases also prevent DRiP accumulation in SGs? Testing OP-puro partitioning in CNOT4- or ZNF598-depleted cells would reveal whether DRiP clearance is a general feature of SG-localized E3 ligases or specific to MKRN2.
        • Are there redundant or compensatory relationships between these E3 ligases? Do double knockdowns have additive effects?
        • The authors note that MKRN2 is "the most highly SG-depleted E3 upon TAK243 treatment"-does this mean MKRN2 has the strongest dependence on active ubiquitination for its SG localization, or simply that it has the highest basal level of SG partitioning?

      Significance

      This is a well-executed study that identifies MKRN2 as an important regulator of stress granule dynamics and proteostasis. The combination of proximity proteomics, live imaging, and functional assays provides strong evidence for MKRN2's role in preventing DRiP accumulation and maintaining granulostasis. However, key mechanistic questions remain, particularly regarding MKRN2's direct substrates, the ubiquitin chain types it generates, and how its enzymatic activity specifically prevents DRiP accumulation while promoting both SG coalescence and disassembly. Addressing the suggested revisions, particularly those related to MKRN2's mechanism of SG localization and substrate specificity, would significantly strengthen the manuscript and provide clearer insights into how ubiquitination maintains the dynamic properties of stress granules under proteotoxic stress.

    3. Note: This preprint has been reviewed by subject experts for Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Referee #1

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors used proximity proteomics in U2OS cells to identify several E3 ubiquitin ligases recruited to stress granules (SGs), and they focused on MKRN2 as a novel regulator. They show that MKRN2 localization to SGs requires active ubiquitination via UBA1. Functional experiments demonstrated that MKRN2 knockdown increases the number of SG condensates, reduces their size, slightly raises SG liquidity during assembly, and slows disassembly after heat shock. Overexpression of MKRN2-GFP combined with confocal imaging revealed co-localization of MKRN2 and ubiquitin in SGs. By perturbing ubiquitination (using a UBA1 inhibitor) and inducing defective ribosomal products (DRiPs) with O-propargyl puromycin, they found that both ubiquitination inhibition and MKRN2 depletion lead to increased accumulation of DRiPs in SGs. The authors conclude that MKRN2 supports granulostasis, the maintenance of SG homeostasis , through its ubiquitin ligase activity, preventing pathological DRiP accumulation within SGs.

      Major comments:

      • Are the key conclusions convincing?

      The key conclusions are partially convincing. The data supporting the role of ubiquitination and MKRN2 in regulating SG condensate dynamics are coherent, well controlled, and consistent with previous literature, making this part of the study solid and credible. However, the conclusions regarding the ubiquitin-dependent recruitment of MKRN2 to SGs, its relationship with UBA1 activity, the functional impact of the MKRN2 knockdown for DRiP accumulation are less thoroughly supported. These aspects would benefit from additional mechanistic evidence, validation in complementary model systems, or the use of alternative methodological approaches to strengthen the causal connections drawn by the authors. - Should the authors qualify some of their claims as preliminary or speculative, or remove them altogether? The authors should qualify some of their claims as preliminary.

      1) MKRN2 recruitment to SGs (ubiquitin-dependent): The proteomics and IF data are a reasonable starting point, but they do not yet establish that MKRN2 is recruited from its physiological localization to SGs in a ubiquitin-dependent manner. To avoid overstating this point the authors should qualify the claim and/or provide additional controls: show baseline localization of endogenous MKRN2 under non-stress conditions (which is reported in literature to be nuclear and cytoplasmatic), include quantification of nuclear/cytoplasmic distribution, and demonstrate a shift into bona fide SG compartments after heat shock. Moreover, co-localization of overexpressed GFP-MKRN2 with poly-Ub (FK2) should be compared to a non-stress control and to UBA1-inhibition conditions to support claims of stress- and ubiquitination-dependent recruitment.

      2) Use and interpretation of UBA1 inhibition: UBA1 inhibition effectively blocks ubiquitination globally, but it is non-selective. The manuscript should explicitly acknowledge this limitation when interpreting results from both proteomics and functional assays. Proteomics hits identified under UBA1 inhibition should be discussed as UBA1-dependent associations rather than as evidence for specific E3 ligase recruitment. The authors should consider orthogonal approaches before concluding specificity.

      3) DRiP accumulation and imaging quality: The evidence presented in Figure 5 is sufficient to substantiate the claim that DRiPs accumulate in SGs upon ubiquitination inhibition or MKRN2 depletion but to show that the event of the SGs localization and their clearance from SGs during stress is promoted by MKRN3 ubiquitin ligase activity more experiments would be needed. - Would additional experiments be essential to support the claims of the paper? Request additional experiments only where necessary for the paper as it is, and do not ask authors to open new lines of experimentation. Yes, a few targeted experiments would strengthen the conclusions without requiring the authors to open new lines of investigation.

      1) Baseline localization of MKRN2: It would be important to show the baseline localization of endogenous and over-expressed MKRN2 (nuclear and cytoplasmic) under non-stress conditions and prior to ubiquitination inhibition. This would provide a reference to quantify redistribution into SGs and demonstrate recruitment in response to heat stress or ubiquitination-dependent mechanisms.

      2) Specificity of MKRN2 ubiquitin ligase activity: to address the non-specific effects of UBA1 inhibition and validate that observed phenotypes depend on MKRN2's ligase activity, the authors could employ a catalytically inactive MKRN2 mutant in rescue experiments. Comparing wild-type and catalytic-dead MKRN2 in the knockdown background would clarify the causal role of MKRN2 activity in SG dynamics and DRiP clearance.

      3) Ubiquitination linkage and SG marker levels: While the specific ubiquitin linkage type remains unknown, examining whether MKRN2 knockdown or overexpression affects total levels of key SG marker proteins would be informative. This could be done via Western blotting of SG markers along with ubiquitin staining, to assess whether MKRN2 influences protein stability or turnover through degradative or non-degradative ubiquitination. Such data would strengthen the mechanistic interpretation while remaining within the current study's scope. - Are the suggested experiments realistic in terms of time and resources? It would help if you could add an estimated cost and time investment for substantial experiments. The experiments suggested in points 1 and 3 are realistic and should not require substantial additional resources beyond those already used in the study. - Point 1 (baseline localization of MKRN2): This involves adding two control conditions (no stress and no ubiquitination inhibition) for microscopy imaging. The setup is essentially the same as in the current experiments, with time requirements mainly dependent on cell culture growth and imaging. Overall, this could be completed within a few weeks. - Point 3 (SG marker levels and ubiquitination): This entails repeating the existing experiment and adding a Western blot for SG markers and ubiquitin. The lab should already have the necessary antibodies, and the experiment could reasonably be performed within a couple of weeks. - Point 2 (catalytically inactive MKRN2 mutant and rescue experiments): This is likely more time-consuming. Designing an effective catalytic-dead mutant depends on structural knowledge of MKRN2 and may require additional validation to confirm loss of catalytic activity. If this expertise is not already present in the lab, it could significantly extend the timeline. Therefore, this experiment should be considered only if similarly recommended by other reviewers, as it represents a higher resource and time investment.

      Overall, points 1 and 3 are highly feasible, while point 2 is more substantial and may require careful planning. - Are the data and the methods presented in such a way that they can be reproduced?

      Yes. The methodologies used in this study to analyze SG dynamics and DRiP accumulation are well-established in the field and should be reproducible, particularly by researchers experienced in stress granule biology. Techniques such as SG assembly and disassembly assays, use of G3BP1 markers, and UBA1 inhibition are standard and clearly described. The data are generally presented in a reproducible manner; however, as noted above, some results would benefit from additional controls or complementary experiments to fully support specific conclusions. - Are the experiments adequately replicated and statistical analysis adequate?

      Overall, the experiments in the manuscript appear to be adequately replicated, with most assays repeated between three and five times, as indicated in the supplementary materials. The statistical analyses used are appropriate and correctly applied to the datasets presented. However, for Figure 5 the number of experimental replicates is not reported. This should be clarified, and if the experiment was not repeated sufficiently, additional biological replicates should be performed. Given that this figure provides central evidence supporting the conclusion that DRiP accumulation depends on ubiquitination-and partly on MKRN2's ubiquitin ligase activity-adequate replication is essential.

      Minor comments:

      • Specific experimental issues that are easily addressable.
        • For the generation and the validation of MKRN2 knockdown in UOS2 cells data are not presented in the results or in the methods sections to demonstrate the effective knockdown of the protein of interest. This point is quite essential to demonstrate the validity of the system used
        • In the supplementary figure 2 it would be useful to mention if the Western Blot represent the input (total cell lysates) before the APEX-pulldown or if it is the APEX-pulldown loaded for WB. There is no consistence in the difference of biotynilation between different replicates shown in the 2 blots. For example in R1 and R2 G3BP1-APX TAK243 the biotynilation is one if the strongest condition while on the left blot, in the same condition comparison samples R3 and R4 are less biotinilated compared to others. It would be useful to provide an explanation for that to avoid any confusion for the readers.
        • In Figure 2D, endogenous MKRN2 localization to SGs appears reduced following UBA1 inhibition. However, it is not clear whether this reduction reflects a true relocalization or a decrease in total MKRN2 protein levels. To support the interpretation that UBA1 inhibition specifically affects MKRN2 recruitment to SGs rather than its overall expression, the authors should provide data showing total MKRN2 levels remain unchanged under UBA1 inhibition, for example via Western blot of total cell lysates.
        • DRIPs accumulation is followed during assembly but in the introduction is highlighted the fact that ubiquitination events, other reported E3 ligases and in this study data on MKRN2 showed that they play a crucial role in the disassembly of SGs which is also related with cleareance of DRIPs. Authors could add tracking DRIPs accumulation during disassembly to be added to Figure 5. I am not sure about the timeline required for this but I am just adding as optional if could be addressed easily.
        • The authors should clarify in the text why the cutoff used for the quantification in Figure 5D (PC > 3) differs from the cutoff used elsewhere in the paper (PC > 1.5). Providing a rationale for this choice will help the reader understand the methodological consistency and ensure that differences in thresholds do not confound interpretation of the results.
        • For Figure 3G, the authors use over-expressed MKRN2-GFP to assess co-localization with ubiquitin in SGs. Given that a reliable antibody for endogenous MKRN2 is available and that a validated MKRN2 knockdown line exists as an appropriate control, this experiment would gain significantly in robustness and interpretability if co-localization were demonstrated using endogenous MKRN2. In the current over-expression system, MKRN2-GFP is also present in the nucleus, whereas the endogenous protein does not appear nuclear under the conditions shown. This discrepancy raises concerns about potential over-expression artifacts or mislocalization. Demonstrating co-localization using endogenous MKRN2 would avoid confounding effects associated with over-expression. If feasible, this would be a relatively straightforward experiment to implement, as it relies on tools (antibody and knockdown line) already described in the manuscript.
      • Are prior studies referenced appropriately?

        • From line 54 to line 67, the manuscript in total cites eight papers regarding the role of ubiquitination in SG disassembly. However, given the use of UBA1 inhibition in the initial MS-APEX experiment and the extensive prior literature on ubiquitination in SG assembly and disassembly under various stress conditions, the manuscript would benefit from citing additional relevant studies to provide more specifc examples. Expanding the references would provide stronger context, better connect the current findings to prior work, and emphasize the significance of the study in relation to established literature
        • At line 59, it would be helpful to note that G3BP1 is ubiquitinated by TRIM21 through a Lys63-linked ubiquitin chain. This information provides important mechanistic context, suggesting that ubiquitination of SG proteins in these pathways is likely non-degradative and related to functional regulation of SG dynamics rather than protein turnover.
        • When citing references 16 and 17, which report that the E3 ligases TRIM21 and HECT regulate SG formation, the authors should provide a plausible explanation for why these specific E3 ligases were not detected in their proteomics experiments. Differences could arise from the stress stimulus used, cell type, or experimental conditions. Similarly, since MKRN2 and other E3 ligases identified in this study have not been reported in previous works, discussing these methodological or biological differences would help prevent readers from questioning the credibility of the findings. It would also be valuable to clarify in the Conclusion that different types of stress may activate distinct ubiquitination pathways, highlighting context-dependent regulation of SG assembly and disassembly.
        • Line 59-60: when referring to the HECT family of E3 ligases involved in ubiquitination and SG disassembly, it would be more precise to report the specific E3 ligase identified in the cited studies rather than only the class of ligase. This would provide clearer mechanistic context and improve accuracy for readers.
        • The specific statement on line 182 "SG E3 ligases that depend on UBA1 activity are RBULs" should be supported by reference.
        • Are the text and figures clear and accurate?
        • In Supplementary Figure 1, DMSO is shown in green and the treatment in red, whereas in the main figures (Figure 1B and 1F) the colours in the legend are inverted. To avoid confusion, the colour coding in figure legends should be consistent across all figures throughout the manuscript.
        • At line 79, the manuscript states that "inhibition of ubiquitination delayed fluorescence recovery dynamics of G3BP1-mCherry, relative to HS-treated cells (Figure 1F, Supplementary Fig. 6A)." However, the data shown in Figure 1F appear to indicate the opposite effect: the TAK243-treated condition (green curve) shows a faster fluorescence recovery compared to the control (red curve). This discrepancy between the text and the figure should be corrected or clarified, as it may affect the interpretation of the role of ubiquitination in SG dynamics.
        • Line 86: adjust a missing bracket
        • There appears to be an error in the legend of Supplementary Figure 3: the legend states that the red condition (MKRN2) forms larger aggregates, but both the main Figure 3C of the confocal images and the text indicate that MKRN2 (red) forms smaller aggregates. Please correct the legend and any corresponding labels so they are consistent with the main figure and the text. The authors should also double-check that the figure panel order, color coding, and statistical annotations match the legend and the descriptions in the Results section to avoid reader confusion.
        • At lines 129-130, the manuscript states that "FRAP analysis demonstrated that MKRN2 KD resulted in a slight increase in SG liquidity (Fig. 3F, Supplementary Fig. 6B)." However, the data shown in Figure 3F appear to indicate the opposite trend: the MKRN2 KD condition (red curve) exhibits a faster fluorescence recovery compared to the control (green curve). This discrepancy between the text and the figure should be corrected or clarified, as it directly affects the interpretation of MKRN2's role in SG disassembly. Ensuring consistency between the written description and the plotted FRAP data is essential for accurate interpretation.
        • At lines 132-133, the manuscript states: "Then, to further test the impact of MKRN2 on SG dynamics, we overexpressed MKRN2-GFP and observed that it was recruited to SG (Fig. 3G)." This description should be corrected or clarified, as the over-expressed MKRN2-GFP also appears to localize to the nucleus.
        • At lines 134-135, the manuscript states that the FK2 antibody detects "free ubiquitin." This is incorrect. FK2 does not detect free ubiquitin; it recognizes only ubiquitin conjugates, including mono-ubiquitinated and poly-ubiquitinated proteins. The text should be corrected accordingly to avoid misinterpretation of the immunostaining data.
        • Figure 5A suffers from poor resolution, and no scale bar is provided, which limits interpretability. Additionally, the ROI selected for the green channel (DRIPs) appears to capture unspecific background staining, while the most obvious DRIP spots are localized in the nucleus. The authors should clarify this in the text, improve the image quality if possible, and ensure that the ROI accurately represents DRIP accumulation - in SGs rather than background signal.

      Do you have suggestions that would help the authors improve the presentation of their data and conclusions?

      • In the first paragraph following the APEX proteomics results, the authors present validation data exclusively for MKRN2, justifying this early focus by stating that MKRN2 is the most SG-depleted E3 ligase. However, in the subsequent paragraph they introduce the RBULs and present knockdown data for MKRN2 along with two additional E3 ligases identified in the screen, before once again emphasizing that MKRN2 is the most SG-depleted ligase and therefore the main focus of the study. For clarity and logical flow, the manuscript would benefit from reordering the narrative. Specifically, the authors should first present the validation data for all three selected E3 ligases, and only then justify the decision to focus on MKRN2 for in-depth characterization. In addition to the extent of its SG depletion, the authors may also consider providing biologically relevant reasons for prioritizing MKRN2 (e.g., domain architecture, known roles in stress responses, or prior evidence of ubiquitination-related functions). Reorganizing this section would improve readability and better guide the reader through the rationale for the study's focus.
      • At lines 137-138, the manuscript states: "Together these data indicate that MKRN2 regulates the assembly dynamics of SGs by promoting their coalescence during HS and can increase SG ubiquitin content." While Figure 3G shows some co-localization of MKRN2 with ubiquitin, immunofluorescence alone is insufficient to claim an increase in SG ubiquitin content. This conclusion should be supported by orthogonal experiments, such as Western blotting, in vitro ubiquitination assays, or immunoprecipitation of SG components. Including a control under no-stress conditions would also help demonstrate that ubiquitination increases specifically in response to stress. The second part of the statement should therefore be rephrased to avoid overinterpretation, for example:"...and may be associated with increased ubiquitination within SGs, as suggested by co-localization, pending further validation by complementary assays."
      • At line 157, the statement: "Therefore, we conclude that MKRN2 ubiquitinates a subset of DRiPs, avoiding their accumulation inside SGs" should be rephrased as a preliminary observation. While the data support a role for MKRN2 in SG disassembly and a reduction of DRIPs, direct ubiquitination of DRIPs by MKRN2 has not been demonstrated. A more cautious phrasing would better reflect the current evidence and avoid overinterpretation.

      Significance

      General assessment: provide a summary of the strengths and limitations of the study. What are the strongest and most important aspects? What aspects of the study should be improved or could be developed?

      • This study provides a valuable advancement in understanding the role of ubiquitination in stress granule (SG) dynamics and the clearance of SGs formed under heat stress. A major strength is the demonstration of how E3 ligases identified through proteomic screening, particularly MKRN2, influence SG assembly and disassembly in a ubiquitination- and heat stress-dependent manner. The combination of proteomics, imaging, and functional assays provides a coherent mechanistic framework linking ubiquitination to SG homeostasis. Limitations of the study include the exclusive use of a single model system (U2OS cells), which may limit generalizability. Additionally, some observations-such as MKRN2-dependent ubiquitination within SGs and changes in DRIP accumulation under different conditions-would benefit from orthogonal validation experiments (e.g., Western blotting, immunoprecipitation, or in vitro assays) to confirm and strengthen these findings. Addressing these points would enhance the robustness and broader applicability of the conclusions.

      Advance: compare the study to the closest related results in the literature or highlight results reported for the first time to your knowledge; does the study extend the knowledge in the field and in which way? Describe the nature of the advance and the resulting insights (for example: conceptual, technical, clinical, mechanistic, functional,...).

      • The closest related result in literature is - Yang, Cuiwei et al. "Stress granule homeostasis is modulated by TRIM21-mediated ubiquitination of G3BP1 and autophagy-dependent elimination of stress granules." Autophagy vol. 19,7 (2023): 1934-1951. doi:10.1080/15548627.2022.2164427 - demonstrating that TRIM21, an E3 ubiquitin ligase, catalyzes K63-linked ubiquitination of G3BP1, a core SG nucleator, under oxidative stress. This ubiquitination by TRIM21 inhibits SG formation, likely by altering G3BP1's propensity for phase separation. In contrast, the MKRN2 study identifies a different E3 (MKRN2) that regulates SG dynamics under heat stress and appears to influence both assembly and disassembly. This expands the role of ubiquitin ligases in SG regulation beyond those previously studied (like TRIM21).
      • Gwon and colleagues (Gwon Y, Maxwell BA, Kolaitis RM, Zhang P, Kim HJ, Taylor JP. Ubiquitination of G3BP1 mediates stress granule disassembly in a context-specific manner. Science. 2021;372(6549):eabf6548. doi:10.1126/science.abf6548) have shown that K63-linked ubiquitination of G3BP1 is required for SG disassembly after heat stress. This ubiquitinated G3BP1 recruits the segregase VCP/p97, which helps extract G3BP1 from SGs for disassembly. The MKRN2 paper builds on this by linking UBA1-dependent ubiquitination and MKRN2's activity to SG disassembly. Specifically, they show MKRN2 knockdown affects disassembly, and suggest MKRN2 helps prevent accumulation of defective ribosomal products (DRiPs) in SGs, adding a new layer to the ubiquitin-VCP model.
      • Ubiquitination's impact is highly stress- and context-dependent (different chain types, ubiquitin linkages, and recruitment of E3s). The MKRN2 work conceptually strengthens this idea: by showing that MKRN2's engagement with SGs depends on active ubiquitination via UBA1, and by demonstrating functional consequences (SG dynamics + DRIP accumulation), the study highlights how cellular context (e.g., heat stress) can recruit specific ubiquitin ligases to SGs and modulate their behavior.
      • There is a gap in the literature: very few (if any) studies explicitly combine the biology of DRIPs, stress granules, and E3 ligase mediated ubiquitination, especially in mammalian cells. There are relevant works about DRIP biology in stress granules, but those studies focus on chaperone-based quality control, not ubiquitin ligase-mediated ubiquitination of DRIPs. This study seems to be one of the first to make that connection in mammalian (or human-like) SG biology. A work on the plant DRIP-E3 ligase TaSAP5 (Zhang N, Yin Y, Liu X, et al. The E3 Ligase TaSAP5 Alters Drought Stress Responses by Promoting the Degradation of DRIP Proteins. Plant Physiol. 2017;175(4):1878-1892. doi:10.1104/pp.17.01319 ) shows that DRIPs can be directly ubiquitinated by E3s in other biological systems - which supports the plausibility of the MKRN2 mechanism, but it's not the same context.
      • A very recent review (Yuan, Lin et al. "Stress granules: emerging players in neurodegenerative diseases." Translational neurodegeneration vol. 14,1 22. 12 May. 2025, doi:10.1186/s40035-025-00482-9) summarizes and reinforces the relationship among SGs and the pathogenesis of different neurodegenerative diseases (NDDs). By identifying MKRN2 as a new ubiquitin regulator in SGs, the current study could have relevance for neurodegeneration and proteotoxic diseases, providing a new candidate to explore in disease models.

      Audience: describe the type of audience ("specialized", "broad", "basic research", "translational/clinical", etc...) that will be interested or influenced by this research; how will this research be used by others; will it be of interest beyond the specific field?

      The audience for this paper is primarily specialized, including researchers in stress granule biology, ubiquitin signaling, protein quality control, ribosome biology, and cellular stress responses. The findings will also be of interest to scientists working on granulostasis, nascent protein surveillance, and proteostasis mechanisms. Beyond these specific fields, the study provides preliminary evidence linking ubiquitination to DRIP handling and SG dynamics, which may stimulate new research directions and collaborative efforts across complementary areas of cell biology and molecular biology.

      Please define your field of expertise with a few keywords to help the authors contextualize your point of view. Indicate if there are any parts of the paper that you do not have sufficient expertise to evaluate.

      I work in ubiquitin biology, focusing on ubiquitination signaling in physiological and disease contexts, with particular expertise in the identification of E3 ligases and their substrates across different cellular systems and in vivo models. I have less expertise in stress granule dynamics and DRiP biology, so my evaluation of those aspects is more limited and relies on interpretation of the data presented in the manuscript.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Englert et al. proposed a functional connectome-based Hopfield artificial neural network (fcHNN) architecture to reveal attractor states and activity flows across various conditions, including resting state, task-evoked, and pathological conditions. The fcHNN can reconstruct characteristics of resting-state and task-evoked brain activities. Additionally, the fcHNN demonstrates differences in attractor states between individuals with autism and typically developing individuals.

      Strengths:

      (1) The study used seven datasets, which somewhat ensures robust replication and validation of generalization across various conditions.

      (2) The proposed fcHNN improves upon existing activity flow models by mimicking artificial neural networks, thereby enhancing the representational ability of the model. This advancement enables the model to more accurately reconstruct the dynamic characteristics of brain activity.

      (3) The fcHNN projection offers an interesting visualization, allowing researchers to observe attractor states and activity flow patterns directly.

      We are grateful to the reviewer for highlighting the robustness of our findings across multiple datasets and for appreciating the novelty and representational advantages of our fcHNN model (which has been renamed to fcANN in the revised manuscript).

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The fcHNN projection can offer low-dimensional dynamic visualizations, but its interpretability is limited, making it difficult to make strong claims based on these projections. The interpretability should be enhanced in the results and discussion.

      We thank the reviewer for these important points. We agree that the interpretability of the low-dimensional projection is limited. In the revised manuscript, we have reframed the fcANN projection primarily as a visualization tool (see e.g. line 359) and moved the corresponding part of Figure 2 to the Supplementary Material (Supplementary Figure 2). We have also implemented a substantial revision of the manuscript, which now directly links our analysis to the novel theoretical framework of self-orthogonalizing attractor networks (Spisak & Friston, 2025), opening several new avenues in terms of interpretation and shedding light on the computational principles underlying attractor dynamics in the brain (see the revised introduction and the new section “Theoretical background”, starting at lines 128, but also the Mathematical Appendices 1-2 in the Supplementary Material for a comprehensive formal derivation). As part of these efforts, we now provide evidence for the brain’s functional organization approximating a special, computationally efficient class of attractor networks, the so-called Kanter-Sompolinsky projector network (Figure 2A-C, line 346, see also our answer to your next comment). This is exactly, what the theoretical framework of free-energy-minimizing attractor networks predicts.

      (2) The presentation of results is not clear enough, including figures, wording, and statistical analysis, which contributes to the overall difficulty in understanding the manuscript. This lack of clarity in presenting key findings can obscure the insights that the study aims to convey, making it challenging for readers to fully grasp the implications and significance of the research.

      We have thoroughly revised the manuscript for clarity in wording, figures (see e.g. lines 257, 482, 529 in the Results and lines 1128, 1266, 1300, 1367 in the Methods). We carefully improved statistical reporting and ensured that we always report test statistics, effect sizes and clearly refer to the null modelling approach used (e.g. lines 461, 542, 550, 565, 573, 619, as well as Figures 2-4). As absolute effect sizes, in many analyses, do not have a straightforward interpretation, we provided Glass’ , as a standardized effect size measure, expressing the distance of the true observation from the null distribution as a ratio of the null standard deviation. To further improve clarity, we now clearly define our research questions and the corresponding analyses and null models in the revised manuscript, both in the main text and in two new tables (Tables 1 and 2). We denoted research questions and null model with Q1-7 and NM1-5, respectively and refer to them at multiple instances when detailing the analyses and the results.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Englert et al. use a novel modelling approach called functional connectome-based Hopfield Neural Networks (fcHNN) to describe spontaneous and task-evoked brain activity and the alterations in brain disorders. Given its novelty, the authors first validate the model parameters (the temperature and noise) with empirical resting-state function data and against null models. Through the optimisation of the temperature parameter, they first show that the optimal number of attractor states is four before fixing the optimal noise that best reflects the empirical data, through stochastic relaxation. Then, they demonstrate how these fcHNN-generated dynamics predict task-based functional activity relating to pain and self-regulation. To do so, they characterise the different brain states (here as different conditions of the experimental pain paradigm) in terms of the distribution of the data on the fcHNN projections and flow analysis. Lastly, a similar analysis was performed on a population with autism condition. Through Hopfield modeling, this work proposes a comprehensive framework that links various types of functional activity under a unified interpretation with high predictive validity.

      Strengths:

      The phenomenological nature of the Hopfield model and its validation across multiple datasets presents a comprehensive and intuitive framework for the analysis of functional activity. The results presented in this work further motivate the study of phenomenological models as an adequate mechanistic characterisation of large-scale brain activity.

      Following up on Cole et al. 2016, the authors put forward a hypothesis that many of the changes to the brain activity, here, in terms of task-evoked and clinical data, can be inferred from the resting-state brain data alone. This brings together neatly the idea of different facets of brain activity emerging from a common space of functional (ghost) attractors.

      The use of the null models motivates the benefit of non-linear dynamics in the context of phenomenological models when assessing the similarity to the real empirical data.

      We thank the reviewer for recognizing the comprehensive and intuitive nature of our framework and for acknowledging the strength of our hypothesis that diverse brain activity facets emerge from a common resting state attractor landscape.

      Weaknesses:

      While the use of the Hopfield model is neat and very well presented, it still begs the question of why to use the functional connectome (as derived by activity flow analysis from Cole et al. 2016). Deriving the functional connectome on the resting-state data that are then used for the analysis reads as circular.

      We agree that starting from functional couplings to study dynamics is in stark contrast with the common practice of estimating the interregional couplings based on structural connectome data. We now explicitly discuss how this affects the scope of the questions we can address with the approach, with explicit notes on the inability of this approach to study the structure-function coupling and its limitations in deriving mechanistic insights at the level of biophysical implementation.

      Line 894:

      “The proposed approach is not without limitations. First, as the proposed approach does not incorporate information about anatomical connectivity and does not explitly model biophysical details. Thus, in its present form, the model is not suitable to study the structure-function coupling and cannot yiled mechanistic explanations underlying (altered) polysynaptic connections, at the level of biophysical details.”

      We are confident, however, that our approach is not circular. At the high level, our approach can be considered as a function-to-function generative model, with twofold aims.

      First, we link large-scale brain dynamics to theoretical artificial neural network models and show that the functional connectome display characteristics that render it as an exceptionally “well-behaving” attractor network (e.g. superior convergence properties, as contrasted against appropriate respective null models). In the revised manuscript, we have significantly improved upon this aspect by explicitly linking the fcANN model to the theoretical framework of self-orthogonalizing attractor networks (Spisak & Friston, 2025) (see the revised introduction and the new section “Theoretical background”, starting at lines 128, but also the Mathematical Appendices 1-2 in the Supplementary Material for a comprehensive formal derivation). As part of these efforts, we now provide evidence for the brain’s functional organization approximating a special, computationally efficient class of attractor networks, the so-called Kanter-Sompolinsky projector network (Figure 2A-C, line 346, see also our answer to your next comment). This is exactly, what the theoretical framework of free-energy-minimizing attractor networks predicts. This result is not circular, as the empirical model does not use the key mechanism (the Hebbian/anti-Hebbian learning rule) that induces self-orthogonalization in the theoretical framework. We clarify this in the revised manuscript, e.g. in line 736.

      Second, we benchmark ability of the proposed function-to-function generative model to predict unseen data (new datasets) or data characteristics that are not directly encompassed in the connectivity matrix (e.g. non-Gaussian conditional dependencies, temporal autocorrelation, dynamical responses to perturbations on the system). These benchmarks are constructed against well defined null models, which provide reasonable references. We have now significantly improved the discussion of these null models in the revised manuscript (Tables 1 and 2, lines 257). We not only show, that our model - when reconstructing resting state dynamics - can generalize to unseen data over and beyond what is possible with the baseline descriptive measure (e.g. covariance measures and PCA), but also demonstrate the ability of the framework to reconstruct the effects of perturbations on this dynamics (such as task-evoked changes), based solely on the resting state data form another sample.

      If the fcHNN derives the basins of four attractors that reflect the first two principal components of functional connectivity, it perhaps suffices to use the empirically derived components alone and project the task and clinical data on it without the need for the fcHNN framework.

      We are thankful for the reviewer for highlighting this important point, which encouraged us to develop a detailed understanding of the origins of the close alignment between attractors and principal components (eigenvectors of the coupling matrix) and the corresponding (approximate) orthogonality. Here, we would like to emphasize that the attractor-eigenvector correspondence is by no means a general feature of any arbitrary attractor network. In fact, such networks are a very special class of attractor neural networks (the so-called Kanter-Sompolinsky projector neural network (Kanter & Sompolinsky, 1987)), with a high degree of computational efficiency, maximal memory capacity and perfect memory recall. It has been rigorously shown that in such networks, the eigenvectors of the coupling matrix (i.e. PCA on the timeseries data) and the attractors become equivalent (Kanter & Sompolinsky, 1987). This in turn made us ask the question, what are the learning and plasticity rules that drive attractor networks towards developing approximately orthogonal attractors? We found that this is a general tendency of networks obeying the free energy principle ( Figure 2A-C, line 346, see also our answer to your next comment). The formal derivation of this framework in now presented in an accompanying theoretical piece (Spisak & Friston, 2025). In the revised manuscript, we provide a short, high-level overview of these results (in the Introduction form line 55 and in the new section “Theoretical background”, line 128, but also the Mathematical Appendices 1-2 in the Supplementary Material for a comprehensive formal derivation). According to this new theoretical model, attractor states can be understood as a set of priors (in the Bayesian sense) that together constitute an optimal orthogonal basis, equipping the update process (which is akin to a Markov-chain Monte Carlo sampling) to find posteriors that generalize effectively within the spanned subspace. Thus, in sum, understanding brain function in terms of attractor dynamics - instead of PCA-like descriptive projections - provides important links towards a Bayesian interpretation of brain activity. At the same time, the eigenvector-attractor correspondence also explains, why descriptive decomposition approaches, like PCA or ICA are so effective at capturing the dynamics of the system, at the first place.

      As presented here, the Hopfield model is excellent in its simplicity and power, and it seems suited to tackle the structure-function relationship with the power of going further to explain task-evoked and clinical data. The work could be strengthened if that was taken into consideration. As such the model would not suffer from circularity problems and it would be possible to claim its mechanistic properties. Furthermore, as mentioned above, in the current setup, the connectivity matrix is based on statistical properties of functional activity amongst regions, and as such it is difficult to talk about a certain mechanism. This contention has for example been addressed in the Cole et al. 2016 paper with the use of a biophysical model linking structure and function, thus strengthening the mechanistic claim of the work.

      We agree that investigating how the structural connectome constraints macro-scale dynamics is a crucial next step. Linking our results with the theoretical framework of self-orthogonalizing attractor networks provides a principled approach to this, as the “self-orthogonalizing” learning rule in the accompanying theoretical work provides the opportunity to fit attractor networks with structural constraints to functional data, shedding light on the plastic processes which maintain the observed approximate orthogonality even in the presence of these structural constraints. We have revised the manuscript to clarify that our phenomenological approach is inherently limited in its ability to answer mechanistic questions at the level of biophysical details (lines 894) and discuss this promising direction as follows:

      Lines 803:

      “A promising application of this is to consider structural brain connectivity (as measured by diffusion MRI) as a sparsity constraint for the coupling weights and then train the fcANN model to match the observed resting-state brain dynamics. If the resulting structural-functional ANN model is able to closely match the observed functional brain substate dynamics, it can be used as a novel approach to quantify and understand the structural functional coupling in the brain”.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) The statistical analyses are poorly described throughout the manuscript. The authors should provide more details on the statistical methods used for each comparison, as well as the corresponding statistics and degrees of freedom, rather than solely reporting p-values.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We have revised the manuscript to include the specific test statistics, precise p-values and raw effect sizes for all reported analyses to ensure full transparency and replicability, see e.g. lines 461, 542, 550, 565, 573, 619, as well as Figures 2-4. Additionally, as absolute effect sizes - in many analyses - do not have a straightforward interpretation, we provided Glass’ Δ, as a standardized effect size measure, expressing the distance of the true observation from the null distribution as a ratio of the null standard deviation.

      We have also improved the description of the statistical methods used in the manuscript (lines 1270, 1306, 1339, 1367, 1404) and added two overview tables (Tables 1 and 2) that summarize the methodological approaches and the corresponding null models.

      Furthermore, we have fully revised the analysis corresponding to noise optimization. We only retained null model 2 (covariance-matched Gaussian) in the main text and on Figure 3, and moved model 1 (spatial phase randomization) into the Supplementary Material (Supplementary Figure 6) and is less appropriate for this analysis (trivially significant in all cases). Furthermore, as test statistic, no we use a Wasserstein distance between the 122-dimensional empirical and the simulated data (instead of focusing on the 2-dimensional projection). This analysis now directly quantifies the capacity of the fcANN model to capture non-Gaussian conditionals in the data.

      (2) The convergence procedure is not clearly explained in the manuscript. Is this an optimization procedure to minimize energy? If so, the authors should provide more details about the optimizer used.

      We apologize for the lack of clarity. The convergence is not an optimization procedure per se, in a sense that it does not involve any external optimizer. It is simply the repeated (deterministic) application of the same update rule also known from Hopfield networks or Boltzmann machines. However, as detailed in the accompanying theoretical paper, this update rule (or inference rule) inherently solves and optimization problem: it performs gradient descent on the free energy landscape of the network. As such, it is guaranteed to converge to a local free energy minimum in the deterministic case. We have clarified this process in the Results and Methods sections as follows:

      Line 161:

      “Inference arises from minimizing free energy with respect to the states \sigma. For a single unit, this yields a local update rule homologous to the relaxation dynamics in Hopfield networks”.

      Line 181:

      “In the basis framework (Spisak & Friston, 2025), inference is a gradient descent on the variational free energy landscape with respect to the states σ and can be interpreted as a form of approximate Bayesian inference, where the expected value of the state σ<sub>i</sub> is interpreted as the posterior mean given the attractor states currently encoded in the network (serving as a macro-scale prior) and the previous state, including external inputs (serving as likelihood in the Bayesian sense)”.

      Line 1252:

      “As the inference rule was derived as a gradient descent on free energy, iterations monotonically decrease the free energy function and therefore converge to a local free‑energy minimum without any external optimizer. Thus, convergence does not require any optimization procedure with an external optimizer. Instead, it arises as the fixed point of repeated local inference updates, which implement gradient descent on free energy in the deterministic symmetric case.”

      (3) In Figure 2G, the beta values range from 0.035 to 0.06, but they are reported as 0.4 in the main text and the Supplementary Figure. Please clarify this discrepancy.

      We are grateful to the reviewer for spotting this typo. The correct value for β is 0.04, as reported in the Methods section. We have corrected this inconsistency in the revised manuscript and as well as in Supplementary Figure 5.

      (4) Line 174: What type of null model was used to evaluate the impact of the beta values? The authors did not provide details on this anywhere in the manuscript.

      We apologize for this omission. The null model is based on permuting the connectome weights while retaining the matrix symmetry, which destroys the specific topological structure but preserves the overall weight distribution. We have now clarified this at multiple places in the revised manuscript (lines 432, Table 1-2, Figure 2), and added new overview tables (Tables 1 and 2) to summarize the methodological approaches and the corresponding null models.

      (5) Figure 3B: It appears that the authors only demonstrate the reproducibility of the “internal” attractor across different datasets. What about other states?

      Thank you for noticing this. We now visualize all attractor states in Figure 3B (note that these essentially consist of two symmetric pairs).

      (6) Figure 3: What does “empirical” represent in Figure 3? Is it PCA? If the “empirical” method, which is a much simpler method, can achieve results similar to those of the fcHNN in terms of state occupancy, distribution, and activity flow, what are the benefits of the proposed method? Furthermore, the authors claim that the explanatory power of the fcHNN is higher than that of the empirical model and shows significant differences. However, from my perspective, this difference is not substantial (37.0% vs. 39.9%). What does this signify, particularly in comparison to PCA?

      This is a crucial point that is now a central theme of our revised manuscript. The reviewer is correct that the “empirical” method is PCA. PCA - by identifying variance-heavy orthogonal directions - aims to explain the highest amount of variance possible in the data (with the assumption of Gaussian conditionals). While empirical attractors are closely aligned to the PCs (i.e. eigenvectors of the inverse covariance matrix, as shown in the new analysis Q1), the alignment is only approximate. We basically take advantage of this small “gap” to quantify, weather attractor states are a better fit to the unseen data than the PCs. Obviously, due to the otherwise strong PC-attractor correspondence, this is expected to be only a small improvement. However, it is an important piece of evidence for the validity of our framework, as it shows that attractors are not just a complementary, perhaps “noisier” variety of the PCs, but a “substrate” that generalizes better to unseen data than the PCs themselves. We have revised the manuscript to clarify this point (lines 528).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      For clarity, it might be useful to define and use consistently certain key terms. Connectome often refers to structural (anatomical) connectivity unless defined specifically this should be considered, in Figure 1B title for example Brain state often refers to different conditions ie autism, neurotypical, sleep, etc... see for review Kringelbach et al. 2020, Cell Reports. When referring to attractors of brain activity they might be called substates.

      We thank the reviewer for these helpful suggestions. We have carefully revised the manuscript to ensure our terminology is precise and consistent. We now explicitly refer to the “functional connectome” (including the title) and avoid using the too general term “brain state” and use “substates” instead.

      In Figure 2 some terms are not defined. Noise is sigma in the text but elpsilon in the figure. Only in methods, the link becomes clear. Perhaps define epsilon in the caption for clarity. The same applies to μ in the methods. It is only described above in the methods, I suggest repeating the epsilon definition for clarity

      We appreciate this feedback and apologize for the inconsistency. We have revised all figures and the Methods section to ensure that all mathematical symbols (including ε, σ, and μ) are clearly and consistently defined upon their first appearance and in all figure captions. For instance, noise level is now consistently referred to as ϵ. We improved the consistency and clarity for other terms, too, including:

      functional connectome-based Hopfiled network (fcHNN) => functional connectivity-based attractor network (fcANN);

      temperature => inverse temperature;

      And improved grammar and language throughout the manuscript.

      References

      Kanter, I., & Sompolinsky, H. (1987). Associative recall of memory without errors. Physical Review A, 35(1), 380–392. 10.1103/physreva.35.380

      Spisak T & Friston K (2025). Self-orthogonalizing attractor neural networks emerging from the free energy principle. arXiv preprint arXiv:2505.22749.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Zhou and colleagues developed a computational model of replay that heavily builds on cognitive models of memory in context (e.g., the context-maintenance and retrieval model), which have been successfully used to explain memory phenomena in the past. Their model produces results that mirror previous empirical findings in rodents and offers a new computational framework for thinking about replay.

      Strengths:

      The model is compelling and seems to explain a number of findings from the rodent literature. It is commendable that the authors implement commonly used algorithms from wakefulness to model sleep/rest, thereby linking wake and sleep phenomena in a parsimonious way. Additionally, the manuscript's comprehensive perspective on replay, bridging humans and non-human animals, enhanced its theoretical contribution.

      Weaknesses:

      This reviewer is not a computational neuroscientist by training, so some comments may stem from misunderstandings. I hope the authors would see those instances as opportunities to clarify their findings for broader audiences.

      (1) The model predicts that temporally close items will be co-reactivated, yet evidence from humans suggests that temporal context doesn't guide sleep benefits (instead, semantic connections seem to be of more importance; Liu and Ranganath 2021, Schechtman et al 2023). Could these findings be reconciled with the model or is this a limitation of the current framework?

      (2) During replay, the model is set so that the next reactivated item is sampled without replacement (i.e., the model cannot get "stuck" on a single item). I'm not sure what the biological backing behind this is and why the brain can't reactivate the same item consistently. Furthermore, I'm afraid that such a rule may artificially generate sequential reactivation of items regardless of wake training. Could the authors explain this better or show that this isn't the case?

      (3) If I understand correctly, there are two ways in which novelty (i.e., less exposure) is accounted for in the model. The first and more talked about is the suppression mechanism (lines 639-646). The second is a change in learning rates (lines 593-595). It's unclear to me why both procedures are needed, how they differ, and whether these are two different mechanisms that the model implements. Also, since the authors controlled the extent to which each item was experienced during wakefulness, it's not entirely clear to me which of the simulations manipulated novelty on an individual item level, as described in lines 593-595 (if any).

      As to the first mechanism - experience-based suppression - I find it challenging to think of a biological mechanism that would achieve this and is selectively activated immediately before sleep (somehow anticipating its onset). In fact, the prominent synaptic homeostasis hypothesis suggests that such suppression, at least on a synaptic level, is exactly what sleep itself does (i.e., prune or weaken synapses that were enhanced due to learning during the day). This begs the question of whether certain sleep stages (or ultradian cycles) may be involved in pruning, whereas others leverage its results for reactivation (e.g., a sequential hypothesis; Rasch & Born, 2013). That could be a compelling synthesis of this literature. Regardless of whether the authors agree, I believe that this point is a major caveat to the current model. It is addressed in the discussion, but perhaps it would be beneficial to explicitly state to what extent the results rely on the assumption of a pre-sleep suppression mechanism.

      (4) As the manuscript mentions, the only difference between sleep and wake in the model is the initial conditions (a0). This is an obvious simplification, especially given the last author's recent models discussing the very different roles of REM vs NREM. Could the authors suggest how different sleep stages may relate to the model or how it could be developed to interact with other successful models such as the ones the last author has developed (e.g., C-HORSE)? Finally, I wonder how the model would explain findings (including the authors') showing a preference for reactivation of weaker memories. The literature seems to suggest that it isn't just a matter of novelty or exposure, but encoding strength. Can the model explain this? Or would it require additional assumptions or some mechanism for selective endogenous reactivation during sleep and rest?

      (5) Lines 186-200 - Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't it be trivial that an external cue at the end-item of Figure 7a would result in backward replay, simply because there is no potential for forward replay for sequences starting at the last item (there simply aren't any subsequent items)? The opposite is true, of course, for the first-item replay, which can't go backward. More generally, my understanding of the literature on forward vs backward replay is that neither is linked to the rodent's location. Both commonly happen at a resting station that is further away from the track. It seems as though the model's result may not hold if replay occurs away from the track (i.e. if a0 would be equal for both pre- and post-run).

      (6) The manuscript describes a study by Bendor & Wilson (2012) and tightly mimics their results. However, notably, that study did not find triggered replay immediately following sound presentation, but rather a general bias toward reactivation of the cued sequence over longer stretches of time. In other words, it seems that the model's results don't fully mirror the empirical results. One idea that came to mind is that perhaps it is the R/L context - not the first R/L item - that is cued in this study. This is in line with other TMR studies showing what may be seen as contextual reactivation. If the authors think that such a simulation may better mirror the empirical results, I encourage them to try. If not, however, this limitation should be discussed.

      (7) There is some discussion about replay's benefit to memory. One point of interest could be whether this benefit changes between wake and sleep. Relatedly, it would be interesting to see whether the proportion of forward replay, backward replay, or both correlated with memory benefits. I encourage the authors to extend the section on the function of replay and explore these questions.

      (8) Replay has been mostly studied in rodents, with few exceptions, whereas CMR and similar models have mostly been used in humans. Although replay is considered a good model of episodic memory, it is still limited due to limited findings of sequential replay in humans and its reliance on very structured and inherently autocorrelated items (i.e., place fields). I'm wondering if the authors could speak to the implications of those limitations on the generalizability of their model. Relatedly, I wonder if the model could or does lead to generalization to some extent in a way that would align with the complementary learning systems framework.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Zhou and colleagues developed a computational model of replay that heavily builds on cognitive models of memory in context (e.g., the context-maintenance and retrieval model), which have been successfully used to explain memory phenomena in the past. Their model produces results that mirror previous empirical findings in rodents and offers a new computational framework for thinking about replay.

      Strengths:

      The model is compelling and seems to explain a number of findings from the rodent literature. It is commendable that the authors implement commonly used algorithms from wakefulness to model sleep/rest, thereby linking wake and sleep phenomena in a parsimonious way. Additionally, the manuscript's comprehensive perspective on replay, bridging humans and non-human animals, enhanced its theoretical contribution.

      Weaknesses:

      This reviewer is not a computational neuroscientist by training, so some comments may stem from misunderstandings. I hope the authors would see those instances as opportunities to clarify their findings for broader audiences.

      (1) The model predicts that temporally close items will be co-reactivated, yet evidence from humans suggests that temporal context doesn't guide sleep benefits (instead, semantic connections seem to be of more importance; Liu and Ranganath 2021, Schechtman et al 2023). Could these findings be reconciled with the model or is this a limitation of the current framework?

      We appreciate the encouragement to discuss this connection. Our framework can accommodate semantic associations as determinants of sleep-dependent consolidation, which can in principle outweigh temporal associations. Indeed, prior models in this lineage have extensively simulated how semantic associations support encoding and retrieval alongside temporal associations. It would therefore be straightforward to extend our model to simulate how semantic associations guide sleep benefits, and to compare their contribution against that conferred by temporal associations across different experimental paradigms. In the revised manuscript, we have added a discussion of how our framework may simulate the role of semantic associations in sleep-dependent consolidation.

      “Several recent studies have argued for dominance of semantic associations over temporal associations in the process of human sleep-dependent consolidation (Schechtman et al., 2023; Liu and Ranganath 2021; Sherman et al., 2025), with one study observing no role at all for temporal associations (Schechtman et al., 2023). At first glance, these findings appear in tension with our model, where temporal associations drive offline consolidation. Indeed, prior models have accounted for these findings by suppressing temporal context during sleep (Liu and Ranganath 2024; Sherman et al., 2025). However, earlier models in the CMR lineage have successfully captured the joint contributions of semantic and temporal associations to encoding and retrieval (Polyn et al., 2009), and these processes could extend naturally to offline replay. In a paradigm where semantic associations are especially salient during awake learning, the model could weight these associations more and account for greater co-reactivation and sleep-dependent memory benefits for semantically related than temporally related items. Consistent with this idea, Schechtman et al. (2023) speculated that their null temporal effects likely reflected the task’s emphasis on semantic associations. When temporal associations are more salient and task-relevant, sleep-related benefits for temporally contiguous items are more likely to emerge (e.g., Drosopoulos et al., 2007; King et al., 2017).”

      The reviewer’s comment points to fruitful directions for future work that could employ our framework to dissect the relative contributions of semantic and temporal associations to memory consolidation.

      (2) During replay, the model is set so that the next reactivated item is sampled without replacement (i.e., the model cannot get "stuck" on a single item). I'm not sure what the biological backing behind this is and why the brain can't reactivate the same item consistently.

      Furthermore, I'm afraid that such a rule may artificially generate sequential reactivation of items regardless of wake training. Could the authors explain this better or show that this isn't the case?

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this aspect of the model. We first note that this mechanism has long been a fundamental component of this class of models (Howard & Kahana 2002). Many classic memory models (Brown et al., 2000; Burgess & Hitch, 1991; Lewandowsky & Murdock 1989) incorporate response suppression, in which activated items are temporarily inhibited. The simplest implementation, which we use here, removes activated items from the pool of candidate items. Alternative implementations achieve this through transient inhibition, often conceptualized as neuronal fatigue (Burgess & Hitch, 1991; Grossberg 1978). Our model adopts a similar perspective, interpreting this mechanism as mimicking a brief refractory period that renders reactivated neurons unlikely to fire again within a short physiological event such as a sharp-wave ripple. Importantly, this approach does not generate spurious sequences. Instead, the model’s ability to preserve the structure of wake experience during replay depends entirely on the learned associations between items (without these associations, item order would be random). Similar assumptions are also common in models of replay. For example, reinforcement learning models of replay incorporate mechanisms such as inhibition to prevent repeated reactivations (e.g., Diekmann & Cheng, 2023) or prioritize reactivation based on ranking to limit items to a single replay (e.g., Mattar & Daw, 2018). We now discuss these points in the section titled “A context model of memory replay”

      “This mechanism of sampling without replacement, akin to response suppression in established context memory models (Howard & Kahana 2002), could be implemented by neuronal fatigue or refractory dynamics (Burgess & Hitch, 1991; Grossberg 1978). Non-repetition during reactivation is also a common assumption in replay models that regulate reactivation through inhibition or prioritization (Diekmann & Cheng 2023; Mattar & Daw 2018; Singh et al., 2022).”

      (3) If I understand correctly, there are two ways in which novelty (i.e., less exposure) is accounted for in the model. The first and more talked about is the suppression mechanism (lines 639-646). The second is a change in learning rates (lines 593-595). It's unclear to me why both procedures are needed, how they differ, and whether these are two different mechanisms that the model implements. Also, since the authors controlled the extent to which each item was experienced during wakefulness, it's not entirely clear to me which of the simulations manipulated novelty on an individual item level, as described in lines 593-595 (if any).

      We agree that these mechanisms and their relationships would benefit from clarification. As noted, novelty influences learning through two distinct mechanisms. First, the suppression mechanism is essential for capturing the inverse relationship between the amount of wake experience and the frequency of replay, as observed in several studies. This mechanism ensures that items with high wake activity are less likely to dominate replay. Second, the decrease in learning rates with repetition is crucial for preserving the stochasticity of replay. Without this mechanism, the model would increase weights linearly, leading to an exponential increase in the probability of successive wake items being reactivated back-to-back due to the use of a softmax choice rule. This would result in deterministic replay patterns, which are inconsistent with experimental observations.

      We have revised the Methods section to explicitly distinguish these two mechanisms:

      “This experience-dependent suppression mechanism is distinct from the reduction of learning rates through repetition; it does not modulate the update of memory associations but exclusively governs which items are most likely to initiate replay.”

      We have also clarified our rationale for including a learning rate reduction mechanism:

      “The reduction in learning rates with repetition is important for maintaining a degree of stochasticity in the model’s replay during task repetition, since linearly increasing weights would, through the softmax choice rule, exponentially amplify differences in item reactivation probabilities, sharply reducing variability in replay.”

      Finally, we now specify exactly where the learning-rate reduction applied, namely in simulations where sequences are repeated across multiple sessions:

      “In this simulation, the learning rates progressively decrease across sessions, as described above.“

      As to the first mechanism - experience-based suppression - I find it challenging to think of a biological mechanism that would achieve this and is selectively activated immediately before sleep (somehow anticipating its onset). In fact, the prominent synaptic homeostasis hypothesis suggests that such suppression, at least on a synaptic level, is exactly what sleep itself does (i.e., prune or weaken synapses that were enhanced due to learning during the day). This begs the question of whether certain sleep stages (or ultradian cycles) may be involved in pruning, whereas others leverage its results for reactivation (e.g., a sequential hypothesis; Rasch & Born, 2013). That could be a compelling synthesis of this literature. Regardless of whether the authors agree, I believe that this point is a major caveat to the current model. It is addressed in the discussion, but perhaps it would be beneficial to explicitly state to what extent the results rely on the assumption of a pre-sleep suppression mechanism.

      We appreciate the reviewer raising this important point. Unlike the mechanism proposed by the synaptic homeostasis hypothesis, the suppression mechanism in our model does not suppress items based on synapse strength, nor does it modify synaptic weights. Instead, it determines the level of suppression for each item based on activity during awake experience. The brain could implement such a mechanism by tagging each item according to its activity level during wakefulness. During subsequent consolidation, the initial reactivation of an item during replay would reflect this tag, influencing how easily it can be reactivated.

      A related hypothesis has been proposed in recent work, suggesting that replay avoids recently active trajectories due to spike frequency adaptation in neurons (Mallory et al., 2024). Similarly, the suppression mechanism in our model is critical for explaining the observed negative relationship between the amount of recent wake experience and the degree of replay.

      We discuss the biological plausibility of this mechanism and its relationship with existing models in the Introduction. In the section titled “The influence of experience”, we have added the following:

      “Our model implements an activity‑dependent suppression mechanism that, at the onset of each offline replay event, assigns each item a selection probability inversely proportional to its activation during preceding wakefulness. The brain could implement this by tagging each memory trace in proportion to its recent activation; during consolidation, that tag would then regulate starting replay probability, making highly active items less likely to be reactivated. A recent paper found that replay avoids recently traversed trajectories through awake spike‑frequency adaptation (Mallory et al., 2025), which could implement this kind of mechanism. In our simulations, this suppression is essential for capturing the inverse relationship between replay frequency and prior experience. Note that, unlike the synaptic homeostasis hypothesis (Tononi & Cirelli 2006), which proposes that the brain globally downscales synaptic weights during sleep, this mechanism leaves synaptic weights unchanged and instead biases the selection process during replay.”

      (4) As the manuscript mentions, the only difference between sleep and wake in the model is the initial conditions (a0). This is an obvious simplification, especially given the last author's recent models discussing the very different roles of REM vs NREM. Could the authors suggest how different sleep stages may relate to the model or how it could be developed to interact with other successful models such as the ones the last author has developed (e.g., C-HORSE)? 

      We appreciate the encouragement to comment on the roles of different sleep stages in the manuscript, especially since, as noted, the lab is very interested in this and has explored it in other work. We chose to focus on NREM in this work because the vast majority of electrophysiological studies of sleep replay have identified these events during NREM. In addition, our lab’s theory of the role of REM (Singh et al., 2022, PNAS) is that it is a time for the neocortex to replay remote memories, in complement to the more recent memories replayed during NREM. The experiments we simulate all involve recent memories. Indeed, our view is that part of the reason that there is so little data on REM replay may be that experimenters are almost always looking for traces of recent memories (for good practical and technical reasons).

      Regarding the simplicity of the distinction between simulated wake and sleep replay, we view it as an asset of the model that it can account for many of the different characteristics of awake and NREM replay with very simple assumptions about differences in the initial conditions. There are of course many other differences between the states that could be relevant to the impact of replay, but the current target empirical data did not necessitate us taking those into account. This allows us to argue that differences in initial conditions should play a substantial role in an account of the differences between wake and sleep replay.

      We have added discussion of these ideas and how they might be incorporated into future versions of the model in the Discussion section:

      “Our current simulations have focused on NREM, since the vast majority of electrophysiological studies of sleep replay have identified replay events in this stage. We have proposed in other work that replay during REM sleep may provide a complementary role to NREM sleep, allowing neocortical areas to reinstate remote, already-consolidated memories that need to be integrated with the memories that were recently encoded in the hippocampus and replayed during NREM (Singh et al., 2022). An extension of our model could undertake this kind of continual learning setup, where the student but not teacher network retains remote memories, and the driver of replay alternates between hippocampus (NREM) and cortex (REM) over the course of a night of simulated sleep. Other differences between stages of sleep and between sleep and wake states are likely to become important for a full account of how replay impacts memory. Our current model parsimoniously explains a range of differences between awake and sleep replay by assuming simple differences in initial conditions, but we expect many more characteristics of these states (e.g., neural activity levels, oscillatory profiles, neurotransmitter levels, etc.) will be useful to incorporate in the future.”

      Finally, I wonder how the model would explain findings (including the authors') showing a preference for reactivation of weaker memories. The literature seems to suggest that it isn't just a matter of novelty or exposure, but encoding strength. Can the model explain this? Or would it require additional assumptions or some mechanism for selective endogenous reactivation during sleep and rest?

      We appreciate the encouragement to discuss this, as we do think the model could explain findings showing a preference for reactivation of weaker memories, as in Schapiro et al. (2018). In our framework, memory strength is reflected in the magnitude of each memory’s associated synaptic weights, so that stronger memories yield higher retrieved‑context activity during wake encoding than weaker ones. Because the model’s suppression mechanism reduces an item’s replay probability in proportion to its retrieved‑context activity, items with larger weights (strong memories) are more heavily suppressed at the onset of replay, while those with smaller weights (weaker memories) receive less suppression. When items have matched reward exposure, this dynamic would bias offline replay toward weaker memories, therefore preferentially reactivating weak memories. 

      In the section titled “The influence of experience”, we updated a sentence to discuss this idea more explicitly: 

      “Such a suppression mechanism may be adaptive, allowing replay to benefit not only the most recently or strongly encoded items but also to provide opportunities for the consolidation of weaker or older memories, consistent with empirical evidence (e.g., Schapiro et al. 2018; Yu et al., 2024).”

      (5) Lines 186-200 - Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't it be trivial that an external cue at the end-item of Figure 7a would result in backward replay, simply because there is no potential for forward replay for sequences starting at the last item (there simply aren't any subsequent items)? The opposite is true, of course, for the first-item replay, which can't go backward. More generally, my understanding of the literature on forward vs backward replay is that neither is linked to the rodent's location. Both commonly happen at a resting station that is further away from the track. It seems as though the model's result may not hold if replay occurs away from the track (i.e. if a0 would be equal for both pre- and post-run).

      In studies where animals run back and forth on a linear track, replay events are decoded separately for left and right runs, identifying both forward and reverse sequences for each direction, for example using direction-specific place cell sequence templates. Accordingly, in our simulation of, e.g., Ambrose et al. (2016), we use two independent sequences, one for left runs and one for right runs (an approach that has been taken in prior replay modeling work). Crucially, our model assumes a context reset between running episodes, preventing the final item of one traversal from acquiring contextual associations with the first item of the next. As a result, learning in the two sequences remains independent, and when an external cue is presented at the track’s end, replay predominantly unfolds in the backward direction, only occasionally producing forward segments when the cue briefly reactivates an earlier sequence item before proceeding forward.

      We added a note to the section titled “The context-dependency of memory replay” to clarify this:

      “In our model, these patterns are identical to those in our simulation of Ambrose et al. (2016), which uses two independent sequences to mimic the two run directions. This is because the drifting context resets before each run sequence is encoded, with the pause between runs acting as an event boundary that prevents the final item of one traversal from associating with the first item of the next, thereby keeping learning in each direction independent.”

      To our knowledge, no study has observed a similar asymmetry when animals are fully removed from the track, although both types of replay can be observed when animals are away from the track. For example, Gupta et al. (2010) demonstrated that when animals replay trajectories far from their current location, the ratio of forward vs. backward replay appears more balanced. We now highlight this result in the manuscript and explain how it aligns with the predictions of our model:

      “For example, in tasks where the goal is positioned in the middle of an arm rather than at its end, CMR-replay predicts a more balanced ratio of forward and reverse replay, whereas the EVB model still predicts a dominance of reverse replay due to backward gain propagation from the reward. This contrast aligns with empirical findings showing that when the goal is located in the middle of an arm, replay events are more evenly split between forward and reverse directions (Gupta et al., 2010), whereas placing the goal at the end of a track produces a stronger bias toward reverse replay (Diba & Buzsaki 2007).” 

      Although no studies, to our knowledge, have observed a context-dependent asymmetry between forward and backward replay when the animal is away from the track, our model does posit conditions under which it could. Specifically, it predicts that deliberation on a specific memory, such as during planning, could generate an internal context input that biases replay: actively recalling the first item of a sequence may favor forward replay, while thinking about the last item may promote backward replay, even when the individual is physically distant from the track.

      We now discuss this prediction in the section titled “The context-dependency of memory replay”:

      “Our model also predicts that deliberation on a specific memory, such as during planning, could serve to elicit an internal context cue that biases replay: actively recalling the first item of a sequence may favor forward replay, while thinking about the last item may promote backward replay, even when the individual is physically distant from the track. While not explored here, this mechanism presents a potential avenue for future modeling and empirical work.”

      (6) The manuscript describes a study by Bendor & Wilson (2012) and tightly mimics their results. However, notably, that study did not find triggered replay immediately following sound presentation, but rather a general bias toward reactivation of the cued sequence over longer stretches of time. In other words, it seems that the model's results don't fully mirror the empirical results. One idea that came to mind is that perhaps it is the R/L context - not the first R/L item - that is cued in this study. This is in line with other TMR studies showing what may be seen as contextual reactivation. If the authors think that such a simulation may better mirror the empirical results, I encourage them to try. If not, however, this limitation should be discussed.

      Although our model predicts that replay is triggered immediately by the sound cue, it also predicts a sustained bias toward the cued sequence. Replay in our model unfolds across the rest phase as multiple successive events, so the bias observed in our sleep simulations indeed reflects a prolonged preference for the cued sequence.

      We now discuss this issue, acknowledging the discrepancy:

      “Bendor and Wilson (2012) found that sound cues during sleep did not trigger immediate replay, but instead biased reactivation toward the cued sequence over an extended period of time. While the model does exhibit some replay triggered immediately by the cue, it also captures the sustained bias toward the cued sequence over an extended period.”

      Second, within this framework, context is modeled as a weighted average of the features associated with items. As a result, cueing the model with the first R/L item produces qualitatively similar outcomes as cueing it with a more extended R/L cue that incorporates features of additional items. This is because both approaches ultimately use context features unique to the two sides.

      (7) There is some discussion about replay's benefit to memory. One point of interest could be whether this benefit changes between wake and sleep. Relatedly, it would be interesting to see whether the proportion of forward replay, backward replay, or both correlated with memory benefits. I encourage the authors to extend the section on the function of replay and explore these questions.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. Regarding differences in the contribution of wake and sleep to memory, our current simulations predict that compared to rest in the task environment, sleep is less biased toward initiating replay at specific items, leading to a more uniform benefit across all memories. Regarding the contributions of forward and backward replay, our model predicts that both strengthen bidirectional associations between items and contexts, benefiting memory in qualitatively similar ways. Furthermore, we suggest that the offline learning captured  by our teacher-student simulations reflects consolidation processes that are specific to sleep.

      We have expanded the section titled The influence of experience to discuss these predictions of the model: 

      “The results outlined above arise from the model's assumption that replay strengthens bidirectional associations between items and contexts to benefit memory. This assumption leads to several predictions about differences across replay types. First, the model predicts that sleep yields different memory benefits compared to rest in the task environment: Sleep is less biased toward initiating replay at specific items, resulting in a more uniform benefit across all memories. Second, the model predicts that forward and backward replay contribute to memory in qualitatively similar ways but tend to benefit different memories. This divergence arises because forward and backward replay exhibit distinct item preferences, with backward replay being more likely to include rewarded items, thereby preferentially benefiting those memories.”

      We also updated the “The function of replay” section to include our teacher-student speculation:

      “We speculate that the offline learning observed in these simulations corresponds to consolidation processes that operate specifically during sleep, when hippocampal-neocortical dynamics are especially tightly coupled (Klinzing et al., 2019).”

      (8) Replay has been mostly studied in rodents, with few exceptions, whereas CMR and similar models have mostly been used in humans. Although replay is considered a good model of episodic memory, it is still limited due to limited findings of sequential replay in humans and its reliance on very structured and inherently autocorrelated items (i.e., place fields). I'm wondering if the authors could speak to the implications of those limitations on the generalizability of their model. Relatedly, I wonder if the model could or does lead to generalization to some extent in a way that would align with the complementary learning systems framework.

      We appreciate these insightful comments. Traditionally, replay studies have focused on spatial tasks with autocorrelated item representations (e.g., place fields). However, an increasing number of human studies have demonstrated sequential replay using stimuli with distinct, unrelated representations. Our model is designed to accommodate both scenarios. In our current simulations, we employ orthogonal item representations while leveraging a shared, temporally autocorrelated context to link successive items. We anticipate that incorporating autocorrelated item representations would further enhance sequence memory by increasing the similarity between successive contexts. Overall, we believe that the model generalizes across a broad range of experimental settings, regardless of the degree of autocorrelation between items. Moreover, the underlying framework has been successfully applied to explain sequential memory in both spatial domains, explaining place cell firing properties (e.g., Howard et al., 2004), and in non-spatial domains, such as free recall experiments where items are arbitrarily related. 

      In the section titled “A context model of memory replay”, we added this comment to address this point:

      “Its contiguity bias stems from its use of shared, temporally autocorrelated context to link successive items, despite the orthogonal nature of individual item representations. This bias would be even stronger if items had overlapping representations, as observed in place fields.”

      Since CMR-replay learns distributed context representations where overlap across context vectors captures associative structure, and replay helps strengthen that overlap, this could indeed be viewed as consonant with complementary learning systems integration processes. 

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      This manuscript proposes a model of replay that focuses on the relation between an item and its context, without considering the value of the item. The model simulates awake learning, awake replay, and sleep replay, and demonstrates parallels between memory phenomenon driven by encoding strength, replay of sequence learning, and activation of nearest neighbor to infer causality. There is some discussion of the importance of suppression/inhibition to reduce activation of only dominant memories to be replayed, potentially boosting memories that are weakly encoded. Very nice replications of several key replay findings including the effect of reward and remote replay, demonstrating the equally salient cue of context for offline memory consolidation.

      I have no suggestions for the main body of the study, including methods and simulations, as the work is comprehensive, transparent, and well-described. However, I would like to understand how the CMRreplay model fits with the current understanding of the importance of excitation vs inhibition, remembering vs forgetting, activation vs deactivation, strengthening vs elimination of synapses, and even NREM vs REM as Schapiro has modeled. There seems to be a strong association with the efforts of the model to instantiate a memory as well as how that reinstantiation changes across time. But that is not all this is to consolidation. The specific roles of different brain states and how they might change replay is also an important consideration.

      We are gratified that the reviewer appreciated the work, and we agree that the paper would benefit from comment on the connections to these other features of consolidation.

      Excitation vs. inhibition: CMR-replay does not model variations in the excitation-inhibition balance across brain states (as in other models, e.g., Chenkov et al., 2017), since it does not include inhibitory connections. However, we posit that the experience-dependent suppression mechanism in the model might, in the brain, involve inhibitory processes. Supporting this idea, studies have observed increased inhibition with task repetition (Berners-Lee et al., 2022). We hypothesize that such mechanisms may underlie the observed inverse relationship between task experience and replay frequency in many studies. We discuss this in the section titled “A context model of memory replay”:

      “The proposal that a suppression mechanism plays a role in replay aligns with models that regulate place cell reactivation via inhibition (Malerba et al., 2016) and with empirical observations of increased hippocampal inhibitory interneuron activity with experience (Berners-Lee et al., 2022). Our model assumes the presence of such inhibitory mechanisms but does not explicitly model them.”

      Remembering/forgetting, activation/deactivation, and strengthening/elimination of synapses: The model does not simulate synaptic weight reduction or pruning, so it does not forget memories through the weakening of associated weights. However, forgetting can occur when a memory is replayed less frequently than others, leading to reduced activation of that memory compared to its competitors during context-driven retrieval. In the Discussion section, we acknowledge that a biologically implausible aspect of our model is that it implements only synaptic strengthening: 

      “Aspects of the model, such as its lack of regulation of the cumulative positive weight changes that can accrue through repeated replay, are biologically implausible (as biological learning results in both increases and decreases in synaptic weights) and limit the ability to engage with certain forms of low level neural data (e.g., changes in spine density over sleep periods; de Vivo et al., 2017; Maret et al., 2011). It will be useful for future work to explore model variants with more elements of biological plausibility.” Different brain states and NREM vs REM: Reviewer 1 also raised this important issue (see above). We have added the following thoughts on differences between these states and the relationship to our prior work to the Discussion section:

      “Our current simulations have focused on NREM, since the vast majority of electrophysiological studies of sleep replay have identified replay events in this stage. We have proposed in other work that replay during REM sleep may provide a complementary role to NREM sleep, allowing neocortical areas to reinstate remote, already-consolidated memories that need to be integrated with the memories that were recently encoded in the hippocampus and replayed during NREM (Singh et al., 2022). An extension of our model could undertake this kind of continual learning setup, where the student but not teacher network retains remote memories, and the driver of replay alternates between hippocampus (NREM) and cortex (REM) over the course of a night of simulated sleep. Other differences between stages of sleep and between sleep and wake states are likely to become important for a full account of how replay impacts memory. Our current model parsimoniously explains a range of differences between awake and sleep replay by assuming simple differences in initial conditions, but we expect many more characteristics of these states (e.g., neural activity levels, oscillatory profiles, neurotransmitter levels, etc.) will be useful to incorporate in the future.”

      We hope these points clarify the model’s scope and its potential for future extensions.

      Do the authors suggest that these replay systems are more universal to offline processes beyond episodic memory? What about procedural memories and working memory?

      We thank the reviewer for raising this important question. We have clarified in the manuscript:

      “We focus on the model as a formulation of hippocampal replay, capturing how the hippocampus may replay past experiences through simple and interpretable mechanisms.”

      With respect to other forms of memory, we now note that:

      “This motor memory simulation using a model of hippocampal replay is consistent with evidence that hippocampal replay can contribute to consolidating memories that are not hippocampally dependent at encoding (Schapiro et al., 2019; Sawangjit et al., 2018). It is possible that replay in other, more domain-specific areas could also contribute (Eichenlaub et al., 2020).”

      Though this is not a biophysical model per se, can the authors speak to the neuromodulatory milieus that give rise to the different types of replay?

      Our work aligns with the perspective proposed by Hasselmo (1999), which suggests that waking and sleep states differ in the degree to which hippocampal activity is driven by external inputs. Specifically, high acetylcholine levels during waking bias activity to flow into the hippocampus, while low acetylcholine levels during sleep allow hippocampal activity to influence other brain regions. Consistent with this view, our model posits that wake replay is more biased toward items associated with the current resting location due to the presence of external input during waking states. In the Discussion section, we have added a comment on this point:

      “Our view aligns with the theory proposed by Hasselmo (1999), which suggests that the degree of hippocampal activity driven by external inputs differs between waking and sleep states: High acetylcholine levels during wakefulness bias activity into the hippocampus, while low acetylcholine levels during slow-wave sleep allow hippocampal activity to influence other brain regions.”

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      In this manuscript, Zhou et al. present a computational model of memory replay. Their model (CMR-replay) draws from temporal context models of human memory (e.g., TCM, CMR) and claims replay may be another instance of a context-guided memory process. During awake learning, CMR replay (like its predecessors) encodes items alongside a drifting mental context that maintains a recency-weighted history of recently encoded contexts/items. In this way, the presently encoded item becomes associated with other recently learned items via their shared context representation - giving rise to typical effects in recall such as primacy, recency, and contiguity. Unlike its predecessors, CMR-replay has built-in replay periods. These replay periods are designed to approximate sleep or wakeful quiescence, in which an item is spontaneously reactivated, causing a subsequent cascade of item-context reactivations that further update the model's item-context associations.

      Using this model of replay, Zhou et al. were able to reproduce a variety of empirical findings in the replay literature: e.g., greater forward replay at the beginning of a track and more backward replay at the end; more replay for rewarded events; the occurrence of remote replay; reduced replay for repeated items, etc. Furthermore, the model diverges considerably (in implementation and predictions) from other prominent models of replay that, instead, emphasize replay as a way of predicting value from a reinforcement learning framing (i.e., EVB, expected value backup).

      Overall, I found the manuscript clear and easy to follow, despite not being a computational modeller myself. (Which is pretty commendable, I'd say). The model also was effective at capturing several important empirical results from the replay literature while relying on a concise set of mechanisms - which will have implications for subsequent theory-building in the field.

      With respect to weaknesses, additional details for some of the methods and results would help the readers better evaluate the data presented here (e.g., explicitly defining how the various 'proportion of replay' DVs were calculated).

      For example, for many of the simulations, the y-axis scale differs from the empirical data despite using comparable units, like the proportion of replay events (e.g., Figures 1B and C). Presumably, this was done to emphasize the similarity between the empirical and model data. But, as a reader, I often found myself doing the mental manipulation myself anyway to better evaluate how the model compared to the empirical data. Please consider using comparable y-axis ranges across empirical and simulated data wherever possible.

      We appreciate this point. As in many replay modeling studies, our primary goal is to provide a qualitative fit that demonstrates the general direction of differences between our model and empirical data, without engaging in detailed parameter fitting for a precise quantitative fit. Still, we agree that where possible, it is useful to better match the axes. We have updated figures 2B and 2C so that the y-axis scales are more directly comparable between the empirical and simulated data. 

      In a similar vein to the above point, while the DVs in the simulations/empirical data made intuitive sense, I wasn't always sure precisely how they were calculated. Consider the "proportion of replay" in Figure 1A. In the Methods (perhaps under Task Simulations), it should specify exactly how this proportion was calculated (e.g., proportions of all replay events, both forwards and backwards, combining across all simulations from Pre- and Post-run rest periods). In many of the examples, the proportions seem to possibly sum to 1 (e.g., Figure 1A), but in other cases, this doesn't seem to be true (e.g., Figure 3A). More clarity here is critical to help readers evaluate these data. Furthermore, sometimes the labels themselves are not the most informative. For example, in Figure 1A, the y-axis is "Proportion of replay" and in 1C it is the "Proportion of events". I presumed those were the same thing - the proportion of replay events - but it would be best if the axis labels were consistent across figures in this manuscript when they reflect the same DV.

      We appreciate these useful suggestions. We have revised the Methods section to explain in detail how DVs are calculated for each simulation. The revisions clarify the differences between related measures, such as those shown in Figures 1A and 1C, so that readers can more easily see how the DVs are defined and interpreted in each case. 

      Reviewer #4/Reviewing Editor (Public Review):

      Summary:

      With their 'CMR-replay' model, Zhou et al. demonstrate that the use of spontaneous neural cascades in a context-maintenance and retrieval (CMR) model significantly expands the range of captured memory phenomena.

      Strengths:

      The proposed model compellingly outperforms its CMR predecessor and, thus, makes important strides towards understanding the empirical memory literature, as well as highlighting a cognitive function of replay.

      Weaknesses:

      Competing accounts of replay are acknowledged but there are no formal comparisons and only CMR-replay predictions are visualized. Indeed, other than the CMR model, only one alternative account is given serious consideration: A variant of the 'Dyna-replay' architecture, originally developed in the machine learning literature (Sutton, 1990; Moore & Atkeson, 1993) and modified by Mattar et al (2018) such that previously experienced event-sequences get replayed based on their relevance to future gain. Mattar et al acknowledged that a realistic Dyna-replay mechanism would require a learned representation of transitions between perceptual and motor events, i.e., a 'cognitive map'. While Zhou et al. note that the CMR-replay model might provide such a complementary mechanism, they emphasize that their account captures replay characteristics that Dyna-replay does not (though it is unclear to what extent the reverse is also true).

      We thank the reviewer for these thoughtful comments and appreciate the opportunity to clarify our approach. Our goal in this work is to contrast two dominant perspectives in replay research: replay as a mechanism for learning reward predictions and replay as a process for memory consolidation. These models were chosen as representatives of their classes of models because they use simple and interpretable mechanisms that can simulate a wide range of replay phenomena, making them ideal for contrasting these two perspectives.

      Although we implemented CMR-replay as a straightforward example of the memory-focused view, we believe the proposed mechanisms could be extended to other architectures, such as recurrent neural networks, to produce similar results. We now discuss this possibility in the revised manuscript (see below). However, given our primary goal of providing a broad and qualitative contrast of these two broad perspectives, we decided not to undertake simulations with additional individual models for this paper.

      Regarding the Mattar & Daw model, it is true that a mechanistic implementation would require a mechanism that avoids precomputing priorities before replay. However, the "need" component of their model already incorporates learned expectations of transitions between actions and events. Thus, the model's limitations are not due to the absence of a cognitive map.

      In contrast, while CMR-replay also accumulates memory associations that reflect experienced transitions among events, it generates several qualitatively distinct predictions compared to the Mattar & Daw model. As we note in the manuscript, these distinctions make CMR-replay a contrasting rather than complementary perspective.

      Another important consideration, however, is how CMR replay compares to alternative mechanistic accounts of cognitive maps. For example, Recurrent Neural Networks are adept at detecting spatial and temporal dependencies in sequential input; these networks are being increasingly used to capture psychological and neuroscientific data (e.g., Zhang et al, 2020; Spoerer et al, 2020), including hippocampal replay specifically (Haga & Fukai, 2018). Another relevant framework is provided by Associative Learning Theory, in which bidirectional associations between static and transient stimulus elements are commonly used to explain contextual and cue-based phenomena, including associative retrieval of absent events (McLaren et al, 1989; Harris, 2006; Kokkola et al, 2019). Without proper integration with these modeling approaches, it is difficult to gauge the innovation and significance of CMR-replay, particularly since the model is applied post hoc to the relatively narrow domain of rodent maze navigation.

      First, we would like to clarify our principal aim in this work is to characterize the nature of replay, rather than to model cognitive maps per se. Accordingly, CMR‑replay is not designed to simulate head‐direction signals, perform path integration, or explain the spatial firing properties of neurons during navigation. Instead, it focuses squarely on sequential replay phenomena, simulating classic rodent maze reactivation studies and human sequence‐learning tasks. These simulations span a broad array of replay experimental paradigms to ensure extensive coverage of the replay findings reported across the literature. As such, the contribution of this work is in explaining the mechanisms and functional roles of replay, and demonstrating that a model that employs simple and interpretable memory mechanisms not only explains replay phenomena traditionally interpreted through a value-based lens but also accounts for findings not addressed by other memory-focused models.

      As the reviewer notes, CMR-replay shares features with other memory-focused models. However, to our knowledge, none of these related approaches have yet captured the full suite of empirical replay phenomena, suggesting the combination of mechanisms employed in CMR-replay is essential for explaining these phenomena. In the Discussion section, we now discuss the similarities between CMR-replay and related memory models and the possibility of integrating these approaches:

      “Our theory builds on a lineage of memory-focused models, demonstrating the power of this perspective in explaining phenomena that have often been attributed to the optimization of value-based predictions. In this work, we focus on CMR-replay, which exemplifies the memory-centric approach through a set of simple and interpretable mechanisms that we believe are broadly applicable across memory domains. Elements of CMR-replay share similarities with other models that adopt a memory-focused perspective. The model learns distributed context representations whose overlaps encodes associations among items, echoing associative learning theories in which overlapping patterns capture stimulus similarity and learned associations (McLaren & Mackintosh 2002). Context evolves through bidirectional interactions between items and their contextual representations, mirroring the dynamics found in recurrent neural networks (Haga & Futai 2018; Levenstein et al., 2024). However, these related approaches have not been shown to account for the present set of replay findings and lack mechanisms—such as reward-modulated encoding and experience-dependent suppression—that our simulations suggest are essential for capturing these phenomena. While not explored here, we believe these mechanisms could be integrated into architectures like recurrent neural networks (Levenstein et al., 2024) to support a broader range of replay dynamics.”

      Recommendations For The Authors

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) Lines 94-96: These lines may be better positioned earlier in the paragraph.

      We now introduce these lines earlier in the paragraph.

      (2) Line 103 - It's unclear to me what is meant by the statement that "the current context contains contexts associated with previous items". I understand why a slowly drifting context will coincide and therefore link with multiple items that progress rapidly in time, so multiple items will be linked to the same context and each item will be linked to multiple contexts. Is that the idea conveyed here or am I missing something? I'm similarly confused by line 129, which mentions that a context is updated by incorporating other items' contexts. How could a context contain other contexts?

      In the model, each item has an associated context that can be retrieved via Mfc. This is true even before learning, since Mfc is initialized as an identity matrix. During learning and replay, we have a drifting context c that is updated each time an item is presented. At each timestep, the model first retrieves the current item’s associated context cf by Mfc, and incorporates it into c. Equation #2 in the Methods section illustrates this procedure in detail. Because of this procedure, the drifting context c is a weighted sum of past items’ associated contexts. 

      We recognize that these descriptions can be confusing. We have updated the Results section to better distinguish the drifting context from items’ associated context. For example, we note that:

      “We represent the drifting context during learning and replay with c and an item's associated context with cf.”

      We have also updated our description of the context drift procedure to distinguish these two quantities: 

      “During awake encoding of a sequence of items, for each item f, the model retrieves its associated context cf via Mfc. The drifting context c incorporates the item's associated context cf and downweights its representation of previous items' associated contexts (Figure 1c). Thus, the context layer maintains a recency weighted sum of past and present items' associated contexts.”

      (3) Figure 1b and 1d - please clarify which axis in the association matrices represents the item and the context.

      We have added labels to show what the axes represent in Figure 1.

      (4) The terms "experience" and "item" are used interchangeably and it may be best to stick to one term.

      We now use the term “item” wherever we describe the model results. 

      (5) The manuscript describes Figure 6 ahead of earlier figures - the authors may want to reorder their figures to improve readability.

      We appreciate this suggestion. We decided to keep the current figure organization since it allows us to group results into different themes and avoid redundancy. 

      (6) Lines 662-664 are repeated with a different ending, this is likely an error.

      We have fixed this error.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Below, I have outlined some additional points that came to mind in reviewing the manuscript - in no particular order.

      (1) Figure 1: I found the ordering of panels a bit confusing in this figure, as the reading direction changes a couple of times in going from A to F. Would perhaps putting panel C in the bottom left corner and then D at the top right, with E and F below (also on the right) work?

      We agree that this improves the figure. We have restructured the ordering of panels in this figure. 

      (2) Simulation 1: When reading the intro/results for the first simulation (Figure 2a; Diba & Buszaki, 2007; "When animals traverse a linear track...", page 6, line 186). It wasn't clear to me why pre-run rest would have any forward replay, particularly if pre-run implied that the animal had no experience with the track yet. But in the Methods this becomes clearer, as the model encodes the track eight times prior to the rest periods. Making this explicit in the text would make it easier to follow. Also, was there any reason why specifically eight sessions of awake learning, in particular, were used?

      We now make more explicit that the animals have experience with the track before pre-run rest recording:

      “Animals first acquire experience with a linear track by traversing it to collect a reward. Then, during the pre-run rest recording, forward replay predominates.”

      We included eight sessions of awake learning to match with the number of sessions in Shin et al. (2017), since this simulation attempts to explain data from that study. After each repetition, the model engages in rest. We have revised the Methods section to indicate the motivation for this choice: 

      “In the simulation that examines context-dependent forward and backward replay through experience (Figs. 2a and 5a), CMR-replay encodes an input sequence shown in Fig. 7a, which simulates a linear track run with no ambiguity in the direction of inputs, over eight awake learning sessions (as in Shin et al. 2019)”

      (3) Frequency of remote replay events: In the simulation based on Gupta et al, how frequently overall does remote replay occur? In the main text, the authors mention the mean frequency with which shortcut replay occurs (i.e., the mean proportion of replay events that contain a shortcut sequence = 0.0046), which was helpful. But, it also made me wonder about the likelihood of remote replay events. I would imagine that remote replay events are infrequent as well - given that it is considerably more likely to replay sequences from the local track, given the recency-weighted mental context. Reporting the above mean proportion for remote and local replay events would be helpful context for the reader.

      In Figure 4c, we report the proportion of remote replay in the two experimental conditions of Gupta et al. that we simulate. 

      (4) Point of clarification re: backwards replay: Is backwards replay less likely to occur than forward replay overall because of the forward asymmetry associated with these models? For example, for a backwards replay event to occur, the context would need to drift backwards at least five times in a row, in spite of a higher probability of moving one step forward at each of those steps. Am I getting that right?

      The reviewer’s interpretation is correct: CMR-replay is more likely to produce forward than backward replay in sleep because of its forward asymmetry. We note that this forward asymmetry leads to high likelihood of forward replay in the section titled “The context-dependency of memory replay”: 

      “As with prior retrieved context models (Howard & Kahana 2002; Polyn et al., 2009), CMR-replay encodes stronger forward than backward associations. This asymmetry exists because, during the first encoding of a sequence, an item's associated context contributes only to its ensuing items' encoding contexts. Therefore, after encoding, bringing back an item's associated context is more likely to reactivate its ensuing than preceding items, leading to forward asymmetric replay (Fig. 6d left).”

      (5) On terminating a replay period: "At any t, the replay period ends with a probability of 0.1 or if a task-irrelevant item is reactivated." (Figure 1 caption; see also pg 18, line 635). How was the 0.1 decided upon? Also, could you please add some detail as to what a 'task-irrelevant item' would be? From what I understood, the model only learns sequences that represent the points in a track - wouldn't all the points in the track be task-relevant?

      This value was arbitrarily chosen as a small value that allows probabilistic stopping. It was not motivated by prior modeling or a systematic search. We have added: “At each timestep, the replay period ends either with a stop probability of 0.1 or if a task-irrelevant item becomes reactivated. (The choice of the value 0.1 was arbitrary; future work could explore the implications of varying this parameter).” 

      In addition, we now explain in the paper that task irrelevant items “do not appear as inputs during awake encoding, but compete with task-relevant items for reactivation during replay, simulating the idea that other experiences likely compete with current experiences during periods of retrieval and reactivation.”

      (6) Minor typos:

      Turn all instances of "nonlocal" into "non-local", or vice versa

      "For rest at the end of a run, cexternal is the context associated with the final item in the sequence. For rest at the end of a run, cexternal is the context associated with the start item." (pg 20, line 663) - I believe this is a typo and that the second sentence should begin with "For rest at the START of a run".

      We have updated the manuscript to correct these typos. 

      (7) Code availability: I may have missed it, but it doesn't seem like the code is currently available for these simulations. Including the commented code in a public repository (Github, OSF) would be very useful in this case.

      We now include a Github link to our simulation code: https://github.com/schapirolab/CMR-replay.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews: 

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      The manuscript by Raices et al., provides some novel insights into the role and interactions between SPO-11 accessory proteins in C. elegans. The authors propose a model of meiotic DSBs regulation, critical to our understanding of DSB formation and ultimately crossover regulation and accurate chromosome segregation. The work also emphasizes the commonalities and species-specific aspects of DSB regulation. 

      Strengths: 

      This study capitalizes on the strengths of the C. elegans system to uncover genetic interactions between a lSPO-11 accessory proteins. In combination with physical interactions, the authors synthesize their findings into a model, which will serve as the basis for future work, to determine mechanisms of DSB regulation. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The methodology, although standard, still lacks some rigor, especially with the IPs. 

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      Meiotic recombination initiates with the formation of DNA double-strand break (DSB) formation, catalyzed by the conserved topoisomerase-like enzyme Spo11. Spo11 requires accessory factors that are poorly conserved across eukaryotes. Previous genetic studies have identified several proteins required for DSB formation in C. elegans to varying degrees; however, how these proteins interact with each other to recruit the DSB-forming machinery to chromosome axes remains unclear. 

      In this study, Raices et al. characterized the biochemical and genetic interactions among proteins that are known to promote DSB formation during C. elegans meiosis. The authors examined pairwise interactions using yeast two-hybrid (Y2H) and co-immunoprecipitation and revealed an interaction between a chromatin-associated protein HIM-17 and a transcription factor XND-1. They further confirmed the previously known interaction between DSB-1 and SPO-11 and showed that DSB-1 also interacts with a nematodespecific HIM-5, which is essential for DSB formation on the X chromosome. They also assessed genetic interactions among these proteins, categorizing them into four epistasis groups by comparing phenotypes in double vs. single mutants. Combining these results, the authors proposed a model of how these proteins interact with chromatin loops and are recruited to chromosome axes, offering insights into the process in C. elegans compared to other organisms. 

      Weaknesses: 

      This work relies heavily on Y2H, which is notorious for having high rates of false positives and false negatives. Although the interactions between HIM-17 and XND-1 and between DSB-1 and HIM-5 were validated by co-IP, the significance of these interactions was not tested in vivo. Cataloging Y2H and genetic interactions does not yield much more insight. The model proposed in Figure 4 is also highly speculative. 

      Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

      The goal of this work is to understand the regulation of double-strand break formation during meiosis in C. elegans. The authors have analyzed physical and genetic interactions among a subset of factors that have been previously implicated in DSB formation or the number of timing of DSBs: CEP-1, DSB-1, DSB-2, DSB-3, HIM-5, HIM-17, MRE-11, REC-1, PARG-1, and XND-1. 

      The 10 proteins that are analyzed here include a diverse set of factors with different functions, based on prior analyses in many published studies. The term "Spo11 accessory factors" has been used in the meiosis literature to describe proteins that directly promote Spo11 cleavage activity, rather than factors that are important for the expression of meiotic proteins or that influence the genome-wide distribution or timing of DSBs. Based on this definition, the known SPO-11 accessory factors in C. elegans include DSB-1, DSB2, DSB-3, and the MRN complex (at least MRE-11 and RAD-50). These are all homologs of proteins that have been studied biochemically and structurally in other organisms. DSB-1 & DSB-2 are homologs of Rec114, while DSB-3 is a homolog of Mei4. Biochemical and structural studies have shown that Rec114 and Mei4 directly modulate Spo11 activity by recruiting Spo11 to chromatin and promoting its dimerization, which is essential for cleavage. The other factors analyzed in this study affect the timing, distribution, or number of RAD-51 foci, but they likely do so indirectly. As elaborated below, XND-1 and HIM-17 are transcription factors that modulate the expression of other meiotic genes, and their role in DSB formation is parsimoniously explained by this regulatory activity. The roles of HIM-5 and REC-1 remain unclear; the reported localization of HIM-5 to autosomes is consistent with a role in transcription (the autosomes are transcriptionally active in the germline, while the X chromosome is largely silent), but its loss-of-function phenotypes are much more limited than those of HIM-17 and XND-1, so it may play a more direct role in DSB formation. The roles of CEP-1 (a Rad53 homolog) and PARG-1 are also ambiguous, but their homologs in other organisms contribute to DNA repair rather than DSB formation. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s clarification. However, the definition of Spo11 accessory factors varies across the literature. Only Keeney and colleagues define these as proteins that physically associate with and activate Spo11 to catalyze DSB formation (Keeney, Lange & Mohibullah, 2014; Lam & Keeney, 2015). In contrast, other authors have used the term more broadly to refer to proteins that promote or regulate Spo11-dependent DSB formation, without necessarily implying a direct interaction with Spo11 (e.g., Panizza et al., 2011; Robert et al., 2016; Stanzione et al., 2016; Li et al., 2021; Lange et al., 2016). Thus, our usage of the term follows this broader functional definition.

      An additional significant limitation of the study, as stated in my initial review, is that much of the analysis here relies on cytological visualization of RAD-51 foci as a proxy for DSBs. RAD-51 associates transiently with DSB sites as they undergo repair and is thus limited in its ability to reveal details about the timing or abundance of DSBs since its loading and removal involve additional steps that may be influenced by the factors being analyzed. 

      We agree with the reviewer that counting RAD-51 foci provides only an indirect measure of SPO-11–dependent DSBs, as RAD-51 marks sites of repair rather than the breaks themselves. However, we would like to clarify that our current study does not rely on RAD51 foci quantification for any of the analyses or conclusions presented. None of the figures or datasets in this manuscript are based on RAD-51 cytology. Instead, our conclusions are drawn from genetic interactions, biochemical assays, and protein–protein interaction analyses.

      The paper focuses extensively on HIM-5, which was previously shown through genetic and cytological analysis to be important for breaks on the X chromosome. The revised manuscript still claims that "HIM-5 mediates interactions with the different accessory factors sub-groups, providing insights into how components on the DNA loops may interact with the chromosome axis." The weak interactions between HIM-5 and DSB-1/2 detected in the Y2H assay do not convincingly support such a role. The idea that HIM-5 directly promotes break formation is also inconsistent with genetic data showing that him5 mutants lack breaks on the X chromosomes, while HIM-5 has been shown to be is enriched on autosomes. Additionally, as noted in my comment to the authors, the localization data for HIM-5 shown in this paper are discordant with prior studies; this discrepancy should be addressed experimentally. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concerns regarding the interpretation of HIM-5 function.  The weak Y2H interactions between HIM-5 and DSB-1 are not interpreted as direct biochemical evidence of a strong physical interaction, but rather as a potential point of regulatory connection between these pathways. Importantly, these Y2H data are further supported by co-immunoprecipitation experiments, genetic interactions, and the observed mislocalization of HIM-5 in the absence of DSB-1. Together, these complementary results strengthen our conclusion that HIM-5 functionally associates with DSB-promoting complexes.

      Regarding HIM-5 localization, the pattern we observe using both anti-GFP staining of the eaIs4 transgene (Phim-5::him-5::GFP) and anti-HA staining of the HIM-5::HA strain is consistent with that reported by McClendon et al. (2016), who validated the same eaIs4 transgene. Although the pattern difers slightly from Meneely et al. (2012), that used a HIM5 antibody that is no longer functional and that has been discontinued by the commercial source. In this prior study, a weak signal was detected in the mitotic region and late pachytene, but stronger signal was seen in early to mid-pachytene. Our imaging— optimized for low background and stable signal—similarly shows robust HIM-5 localization in early and mid-pachytene, supporting the reliability of our GFP and HA-tagged analyses.

      The recent analysis of DSB formation in C. elegans males (Engebrecht et al; PloS Genetics; PMID: 41124211) shows that in absence of him-5 there is a significant reduction of CO designation (measured as COSA-1 foci) on autosomes. This study strongly supports a direct and general role for HIM-5 in crossover formation— on both autosomes and on the hermaphrodite X.

      This paper describes REC-1 and HIM-5 as paralogs, based on prior analysis in a paper that included some of the same authors (Chung et al., 2015; DOI 10.1101/gad.266056.115). In my initial review I mentioned that this earlier conclusion was likely incorrect and should not be propagated uncritically here. Since the authors have rebutted this comment rather than amending it, I feel it is important to explain my concerns about the conclusions of previous study. Chung et al. found a small region of potential homology between the C. elegans rec-1 and him-5 genes and also reported that him-5; rec-1 double mutants have more severe defects than either single mutant, indicative of a stronger reduction in DSBs. Based on these observations and an additional argument based on microsynteny, they concluded that these two genes arose through recent duplication and divergence. However, as they noted, genes resembling rec-1 are absent from all other Caenorhabditis species, even those most closely related to C. elegans. The hypothesis that two genes are paralogs that arose through duplication and divergence is thus based on their presence in a single species, in the absence of extensive homology or evidence for conserved molecular function. Further, the hypothesis that gene duplication and divergence has given rise to two paralogs that share no evident structural similarity or common interaction partners in the few million years since C. elegans diverged from its closest known relatives is implausible. In contrast, DSB-1 and DSB-2 are both homologs of Rec114 that clearly arose through duplication and divergence within the Caenorhabditis lineage, but much earlier than the proposed split between REC-1 and HIM-5. Two genes that can be unambiguously identified as dsb-1 and dsb-2 are present in genomes throughout the Elegans supergroup and absent in the Angaria supergroup, placing the duplication event at around 18-30 MYA, yet DSB-1 and DSB-2 share much greater similarity in their amino acid sequence, predicted structure, and function than HIM-5 and REC-1. Further, Raices place HIM-5 and REC-1 in different functional complexes (Figure 3B). 

      We respectfully disagree with the reviewer’s characterization of the relationship between HIM-5 and REC-1. Our use of the term “paralog” follows the conclusions of Chung et al. (2015), a peer-reviewed study that provided both sequence and microsynteny evidence supporting this relationship. While we acknowledge that the degree of sequence conservation is limited, the evolutionary scenario proposed by Chung et al. remains the only published framework addressing this question. Further the degree of homology between either HIM-5 or REC-1 and the ancestral locus are similar to that observed for DSB-1 and DSB-2 with REC-114 (Hinman et al., 2021). We therefore retain the use of the term “paralog” in reference to these genes. Importantly, our conclusions regarding their distinct molecular and functional roles are independent of this classification.

      The authors acknowledge that HIM-17 is a transcription factor that regulates many meiotic genes. Like HIM-17, XND-1 is cytologically enriched along the autosomes in germline nuclei, suggestive of a role in transcription. The Reinke lab performed ChIP-seq in a strain expressing an XND-1::GFP fusion protein and showed that it binds to promoter regions, many of which overlap with the HIM-17-regulated promoters characterized by the Ahringer lab (doi: 10.1126/sciadv.abo4082). Work from the Yanowitz lab has shown that XND-1 influences the transcription of many other genes involved in meiosis (doi: 10.1534/g3.116.035725) and work from the Colaiacovo lab has shown that XND-1 regulates the expression of CRA-1 (doi: 10.1371/journal.pgen.1005029). Additionally, loss of HIM-17 or XND-1 causes pleiotropic phenotypes, consistent with a broad role in gene regulation. Collectively, these data indicate that XND-1 and HIM-17 are transcription factors that are important for the proper expression of many germline-expressed genes. Thus, as stated above, the roles of HIM-17 and XND-1 in DSB formation, as well as their effects on histone modification, are parsimoniously explained by their regulation of the expression of factors that contribute more directly to DSB formation and chromatin modification. I feel strongly that transcription factors should not be described as "SPO-11 accessory factors." 

      The ChIP analysis of XND-1 binding sites (using the XND-1::GFP transgene we provided to the Reinke lab) was performed, and Table S3 in the Ahringer paper suggests it is found at germline promoters, although the analysis is not actually provided. We completely agree that at least a subset of XND-1 functions is explained by its regulation of transcriptional targets (as we previously showed for HIM-5). However, like the MES proteins, a subset of which are also autosomal and impact X chromosome gene expression, XND-1 could also be directly regulating chromatin architecture which could have profound effects on DSB formation.  As stated in our prior comments, precedent for the involvement of a chromatin factor in DSB formation is provided by yeast Spp1. 

      Recommendations for the authors: 

      Editor comments: 

      As you can see, the reviewers have additional comments, and the authors can include revisions to address those points prior to publicizing 'a version of record' (e.g. hatching rate assay mentioned by reviewer #1). This type of study, trying to catalog interactions of many factors, inevitably has loose ends, but in my opinion, it does not reduce the value of the study, as long as statements are not misleading. I suggest that the authors address issues by making changes to the main text. After the next round of adjustments by authors, I feel that it will be ready for a version of record, based on the spirit of the current eLife publication model. 

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      I still have concerns about the HIM-17 IP and immunoblot probing with XND-1 antibodies. While the newly provided whole extract immunoblot clearly shows a XND-1 specific band that goes away in the mutant extracts, there is additional bands that are recognized - the pattern looks different than in the input in Figure 1B. Additionally, there is still a band of the corresponding size in the IPs from extracts not containing the tagged allele of HIM-17, calling into question whether XND-1 is specifically pulled down. 

      The authors did not include the hatching rate as pointed out in the original reviews. In the rebuttal: 

      "Great question. I guess we need to do this while back out for review. If anyone has suggestions of what to say here. Clearly we overlooked this point but do have the strain." 

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We had intended to include a hatching analysis; however, during the course of this work we discovered that our him-17 stock had acquired an additional linked mutation(s) that altered its phenotype and led to inconsistent results. This strain was used to rederive the him-17; eaIs4 double mutant after our original did not survive freeze/thaw. Given the abnormal behavior observed in this line, we concluded that proceeding with the hatching assays could yield unreliable data. We are currently reestablishing a verified him-17 strain, but in the interest of accuracy and reproducibility, we have restricted our analysis in this manuscript to validated datasets derived from confirmed strains.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      The authors have addressed most of the previous concerns and substantially improved the manuscript. The new data demonstrate that HIM-5 localization depends on DSB-1, and together with the Y2H and Co-PI results, strengthen the link between HIM-5 and the DSBforming machinery in C. elegans. The remaining points are outlined below: 

      Specific comments: 

      The font size of texts and labels in the Figure is very small and is hardly legible. Please enlarge them and make them clearly visible (Fig 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 3F)

      Done

      Although the authors have addressed the specificity of the XND-1 antibody, it remains unclear whether the boxed band is specific to the him-17::3xHA IP, since the same band appears in the control IP, albeit with lower intensity (Fig 1B). Is the ~100 kDa band in the him-17::3xHA IP a modified form XND-1? While antibody specificity was previously demonstrated by IF using xnd-1 mutants, it would be ideal to confirm this on a western blot as well. 

      A Western Blot performed using whole cell extracts and probed with the anti- XND-1 antibody has been provided in the revised version of the manuscript (Fig. S1A). This confirms that the antibody specifically recognizes XND-1 protein. We believe that the ~100 kDa band mentioned by the reviewer is likely to be a non-specific cross reaction band detected by the antibody, since an identical band of the same mW was also detected in xnd-1 null mutants (Fig. S1A).

      Regarding the IP negative controls, we are firmly convinced the boxed band to be specific, and the fact that a (very) low intensity band is also found in the negative control should not infringe the validity of the HIM-17-XND-1 specific interaction. There is a constellation of similar examples present across the literature, as it is widely acknowledged amongst biochemists that some proteins may “stick” to the beads due their intrinsic biochemical properties despite usage of highly stringent IP buffers. However, the high level of enrichment detected in the IP (as also underlined by the reviewer) corroborates that XND-1 specifically immunoprecipitates with HIM-17 despite a low, non-specific binding to the HA beads is present. If interaction between XND-1 and HIM-17 was non-specific, we logically would have found the band in the IP and the band in the negative control to be of very similar intensity, which is clearly not the case. 

      Although co-IP assays are generally considered not a strictly quantitative assay, we want to emphasize that a comparable amount of nuclear extract was employed in both samples as also evidenced by the inputs, in which it is also possible to see that if anything, slightly less  nuclear extracts were employed in the him-17::3xHA; him-5::GFP::3xFLAG vs. the him5::GFP::3xFLAG negative control, corroborating the above mentioned points.

      Lastly, it is crucial to mention that mass spectrometry analyses performed on HIM17::3xHA pulldowns show XND-1 as a highly enriched interacting protein (Blazickova et al.; 2025 Nature Comms.), which strongly supports our co-IP results.

      The subheading "HIM-5 is the essential factor for meiotic breaks in the X chromosome" does not accurately represent the work described in the Results or in Figure 1. I disagree with the authors' response to the earlier criticism. The issue is not merely semantic. The data do not demonstrate that HIM-5 is required for DSB formation on the X chromosome - this conclusion can only be inferred. What Figure 1 shows is that XND-1 and HIM-17 interact, and that pie-1p-driven HIM-5 expression can partially rescue meiotic defects of him-17 mutants. This supports the conclusion that him-5 is a target of HIM-17/XND-1 in promoting CO formation on the X chromosome. However, the data provide no direct evidence for the claim stated in the subheading. I strongly encourage authors to revise the subheading to more accurately represent the findings presented in the paper. 

      After considering the reviewer’s comments, we have revised the subheading to more accurately describe our findings.

      In Fig1C, please fix the typo in the last row - "pie1p::him5-::GFP" to "pie-1p::him- 5::GFP".

      Done

      In Fig 2C, "p" is missing from the label on the right for Phim-5::him-5::GFP.

      Done

      In Fig 3I, bring the labels (DSB-1/2/3) at the lower right to the front.

      Done

      In Concluding Remarks, please fix the typo "frequently".

      Done

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      The experiments that analyze HIM-5 in dsb-1 mutants should be repeated using antibodies against the endogenous HIM-5 antibody, and localization of the HIM-5::HA and HIM-5::GFP proteins should be compared directly to antibody staining. This work uses an epitopetagged protein and a GFP-tagged protein to analyze the localization of HIM-5, while prior work (Meneely et al., 2012) used an antibody against the endogenous protein. In Figures 2 and S4 of this paper, neither HIM-5::HA nor HIM-5::GFP appears to localize strongly to chromatin, and autosomal enrichment of HIM-5, as previously reported for the endogenous protein based on antibody staining, is not evident. Moreover, HIM-5::GFP and HIM-5::HA look different from each other, and neither resembles the low-resolution images shown in Figure 6 in Meneely et al 2012, which showed nuclear staining throughout the germline, including in the mitotic zone, and also in somatic sheath cells. Given the differences in localization between the tagged transgenes and the endogenous protein, it is important to analyze the behavior of the endogenous, untagged protein. A minor issue: a wild-type control should also be shown for HIM-5::HA in Figure S4. 

      Wild type control added to figure S4

      Evidence that XND-1 and HIM-17 form a complex is weak; it is supported by the Y2H and co-IP data but opposed by functional analysis or localization. The diversity of proteins found in the Co-IP of HIM-17::GFP (Table S2) indicate that these interactions are unlikely to be specific. The independent localization of these proteins to chromatin is clear evidence that they do not form an obligate complex; additionally, they have been found to regulate distinct (although overlapping) sets of genes. The predicted structure generated by Alphafold3 has very low confidence and should not be taken as evidence for an interaction.The newly added argument about the lack of apparently overlap between HIM-17 and XND1 due to the distance between the HA tag on HIM-17 and XND-1 is flawed and should be removed - the extended C-terminus in the predicted AlphaFold3 C-terminus of HIM-17 has been interpreted as if it were a structured domain. Moreover, the predicted distance of 180 Å (18 nm) is comparable to the distance between a fluorophore on a secondary antibody and the epitope recognized by the primary antibody (~20-25 nm) and is far below than the resolution limit of light microscopy. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comment. The evidence supporting a physical interaction between XND-1 and HIM-17 is not only shown by our co-IP experiments, but it has also been recently shown in an independent study where MS analyses were conducted on HIM-17::3xHA pull downs to identify novel HIM-17 interactors (Blazickova et al.; 2025 Nature Comms). As shown in the data provided in this study, also under these experimental settings XND-1 was identified as a highly enriched putative HIM-17 interactor. We do acknowledge that their chromatin localization patterns are distinct and they regulate overlapping but not identical sets of genes, however, it is worth noting that protein–protein interactions in meiosis are often transient or context-dependent, and may not necessarily result in co-localization detectable by microscopy. In line with this, in the same work cited above, a similar situation for BRA-2 and HIM-17 was reported, as they were shown to interact biochemically despite the absence of overlapping staining patterns. 

      Minor issues: 

      The images shown in Panel D in Figure 1 seem to have very different resolutions; the HTP3/HIM-17 colocalization image is particularly blurry/low-resolution and should be replaced. The contrast between blue and green cannot be seen clearly; colors with stronger contrast should be used, and grayscale images should also be shown for individual channels. High-resolution images should probably be included for all of the factors analyzed here to facilitate comparisons.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Overall, this is a well-done study, and the conclusions are largely supported by the data, which will be of interest to the field.

      Strengths:

      Strengths of this study include experiments with solution NMR that can resolve high-resolution interactions of the highly flexible C-terminal tail of arr2 with clathrin and AP2. Although mainly confirmatory in defining the arr2 CBL 376LIELD380 as the clathrin binding site, the use of the NMR is of high interest (Fig. 1). The 15N-labeled CLTC-NTD experiment with arr2 titrations reveals a span from 39-108 that mediates an arr2 interaction, which corroborates previous crystal data, but does not reveal a second area in CLTC-NTD that in previous crystal structures was observed to interact with arr2.

      SEC and NMR data suggest that full-length arr2 (1-418) binding with 2-adaptin subunit of AP2 is enhanced in the presence of CCR5 phospho-peptides (Fig. 3). The pp6 peptide shows the highest degree of arr2 activation, and 2-adaptin binding, compared to less phosphorylated peptide or not phosphorylated at all. It is interesting that the arr2 interaction with CLTC NTD and pp6 cannot be detected using the SEC approach, further suggesting that clathrin binding is not dependent on arrestin activation. Overall, the data suggest that receptor activation promotes arrestin binding to AP2, not clathrin, suggesting the AP2 interaction is necessary for CCR5 endocytosis.

      To validate the solid biophysical data, the authors pursue validation experiments in a HeLa cell model by confocal microscopy. This requires transient transfection of tagged receptor (CCR5-Flag) and arr2 (arr2-YFP). CCR5 displays a "class B"-like behavior in that arr2 is rapidly recruited to the receptor at the plasma membrane upon agonist activation, which forms a stable complex that internalizes onto endosomes (Fig. 4). The data suggest that complex internalization is dependent on AP2 binding not clathrin (Fig. 5).

      The addition of the antagonist experiment/data adds rigor to the study.

      Overall, this is a solid study that will be of interest to the field.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews

      Public Reviews: 

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Petrovic et al. investigate CCR5 endocytosis via arrestin 2, with a particular focus on clathrin and AP2 contributions. The study is thorough and methodologically diverse. The NMR titration data clearly demonstrate chemical shift changes at the canonical clathrin-binding site (LIELD), present in both the 2S and 2L arrestin splice variants. 

      To assess the effect of arrestin activation on clathrin binding, the authors compare: truncated arrestin (1-393), full-length arrestin, and 1-393 incubated with CCR5 phosphopeptides. All three bind clathrin comparably, whereas controls show no binding. These findings are consistent with prior crystal structures showing peptide-like binding of the LIELD motif, with disordered flanking regions. The manuscript also evaluates a non-canonical clathrin binding site specific to the 2L splice variant. Though this region has been shown to enhance beta2-adrenergic receptor binding, it appears not to affect CCR5 internalization. 

      Similar analyses applied to AP2 show a different result. AP2 binding is activation-dependent and influenced by the presence and level of phosphorylation of CCR5-derived phosphopeptides. These findings are reinforced by cellular internalization assays. 

      In sum, the results highlight splice-variant-dependent effects and phosphorylation-sensitive arrestin-partner interactions. The data argue against a (rapidly disappearing) one-size-fitsall model for GPCR-arrestin signaling and instead support a nuanced, receptor-specific view, with one example summarized effectively in the mechanistic figure.

      We thank the referee for this positive assessment of our manuscript. Indeed, by stepping away from the common receptor models for understanding internalization (b2AR and V2R), we revealed the phosphorylation level of the receptor as a key factor in driving the sequestration of the receptor from the plasma membrane. We hope that the proposed mechanistic model will aid further studies to obtain an even more detailed understanding of forces driving receptor internalization.

      Weaknesses: 

      Figure 1 shows regions alphaFold model that are intrinsically disordered without making it clear that this is not an expected stable position. The authors NMR titration data are n=1. Many figure panels require that readers pinch and zoom to see the data.

      In the “Recommendations for the Authors” section, we addressed the reviewer’s stated weaknesses. In short, for the AlphaFold representation in Figure 1A, we added explicit labeling and revised the legend and main text to clearly state that the depicted loops are intrinsically disordered, absent from crystal structures due to flexibility, and shown only for visualization of their location. We also clarified that the NMR titration experiments inherently have n = 1 due to technical limitations, and that this is standard practice in the field, while ensuring individual data points remain visible. The supplementary NMR figures now have more vibrant coloring, allowing easier data assessment. However, we have not changed the zooming of the microscopy and NMR spectra. We believe that the presentation of microscopy data, which already show zoomed-in regions of interest, follow standard practices in the field. Furthermore, we strongly believe that we should display full NMR spectra in the supplementary figures to allow the reader to assess the overall quality and behavior. As indicated previously, the reader can zoom in to very high resolution, since the spectra are provided by vector graphics. Zoomed regions of the relevant details are provided in the main figures.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      Based on extensive live cell assays, SEC, and NMR studies of reconstituted complexes, these authors explore the roles of clathrin and the AP2 protein in facilitating clathrin mediated endocytosis via activated arrestin-2. NMR, SEC, proteolysis, and live cell tracking confirm a strong interaction between AP2 and activated arrestin using a phosphorylated C-terminus of CCR5. At the same time a weak interaction between clathrin and arrestin-2 is observed, irrespective of activation. 

      These results contrast with previous observations of class A GPCRs and the more direct participation by clathrin. The results are discussed in terms of the importance of short and long phosphorylated bar codes in class A and class B endocytosis. 

      Strengths: 

      The 15N,1H and 13C,methyl TROSY NMR and assignments represent a monumental amount of work on arrestin-2, clathrin, and AP2. Weak NMR interactions between arrestin-2 and clathrin are observed irrespective of activation of arrestin. A second interface, proposed by crystallography, was suggested to be a possible crystal artifact. NMR establishes realistic information on the clathrin and AP2 affinities to activated arrestin with both kD and description of the interfaces.

      We sincerely thank the referee for this encouraging evaluation of our work and appreciate the recognition of the NMR efforts and insights into the arrestin–clathrin–AP2 interactions.

      Weaknesses: 

      This reviewer has identified only minor weaknesses with the study. 

      (1) I don't observe two overlapping spectra of Arrestin2 (1393) +/- CLTC NTD in Supp Figure 1

      We believe the referee is referring to Figure 1 – figure supplement 2. We have now made the colors of the spectra more vibrant and used different contouring to make the differences between the two spectra clearer. The spectra are provided as vector graphics, which allows zooming in to the very fine details.

      (2) Arrestin-2 1-418 resonances all but disappear with CCR5pp6 addition. Are they recovered with Ap2Beta2 addition and is this what is shown in Supp Fig 2D

      We believe the reviewer is referring to Figure 3 - figure supplement 1. In this figure, the panels E and F show resonances of arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup> (apo state shown with black outline) disappear upon the addition of CCR5pp6 (arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup>•CCR5pp6 complex spectrum in red). The panels C and D show resonances of arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup> (apo state shown with black outline), which remain unchanged upon addition of AP2b2 <sup>701-937</sup> (orange), indicating no complex formation. We also recorded a spectrum of the arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup>•CCR5pp6 complex under addition of AP2b2 <sup>701-937</sup> (not shown), but the arrestin2 resonances in the arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup> •CCR5pp6 complex were already too broad for further analysis. This had been already explained in the text.

      “In agreement with the AP2b2 NMR observations, no interaction was observed in the arrestin2 methyl and backbone NMR spectra upon addition of AP2b2 in the absence of phosphopeptide (Figure 3-figure supplement 1C, D). However, the significant line broadening of the arrestin2 resonances upon phosphopeptide addition (Figure 3-figure supplement 1E, F) precluded a meaningful assessment of the effect of the AP2b2 addition on arrestin2 in the presence of phosphopeptide”.

      (3) I don't understand how methyl TROSY spectra of arrestin2 with phosphopeptide could look so broadened unless there are sample stability problems?

      We thank the referee for this comment. We would like to clarify that in general a broadened spectrum beyond what is expected from the rotational correlation time does not necessarily correlate with sample stability problems. It is rather evidence of conformational intermediate exchange on the micro- to millisecond time scale.

      The displayed <sup>1</sup>H-<sup>15</sup>N spectra of apo arrestin2 already suffer from line broadening due to such intrinsic mobility of the protein. These spectra were recorded with acquisition times of 50 ms (<sup>15</sup>N) and 55 ms (<sup>1</sup>H) and resolution-enhanced by a 60˚-shifted sine-bell filter for <sup>15</sup>N and a 60˚-shifted squared sine-bell filter for <sup>1</sup>H, respectively, which leads to the observed resolution with still reasonable sensitivity. The <sup>1</sup>H-<sup>15</sup>N resonances in Fig. 1b (arrestin2<sup>1-393</sup>) look particularly narrow. However, this region contains a large number of flexible residues. The full spectrum, e.g. Figure 1-figure supplement 2, shows the entire situation with a clear variation of linewidths and intensities. The linewidth variation becomes stronger when omitting the resolution enhancement filters.

      The addition of the CCR5pp6 phosphopeptide does not change protein stability, which we assessed by measuring the melting temperature of arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup> and arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup>•CCR5pp6 complex (Tm = 57°C in both cases). We believe that the explanation for the increased broadening of the arrestin2 resonances is that addition of the CCR5pp6, possibly due to the release of the arrestin2 strand b20, amplifies the mentioned intermediate timescale protein dynamics. This results in the disappearance of arrestin2 resonances.

      We have now included the assessment of arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup> and arrestin2<sup>1-418</sup>•CCR5pp6 stability in the manuscript:

      “The observed line broadening of arrestin2 in the presence of phosphopeptide must be a result of increased protein motions and is not caused by a decrease in protein stability, since the melting temperature of arrestin2 in the absence and presence of phosphopeptide are identical (56.9 ± 0.1 °C)”.

      (4) At one point the authors added excess fully phosphorylated CCR5 phosphopeptide (CCR5pp6). Does the phosphopeptide rescue resolution of arrestin2 (NH or methyl) to the point where interaction dynamics with clathrin (CLTC NTD) are now more evident on the arrestin2 surface?

      Unfortunately, when we titrate arrestin2 with CCR5pp6 (please see Isaikina & Petrovic et. al, Mol. Cell, 2023 for more details), the arrestin2 resonances undergo fast-to-intermediate exchange upon binding. In the presence of phosphopeptide excess, very few resonances remain, the majority of which are in the disordered region, including resonances from the clathrin-binding loop. Due to the peak overlap, we could not unambiguously assign arrestin2 resonances in the bound state, which precluded our assessment of the arrestin2-clathrin interaction in the presence of phosphopeptide. We have made this now clearer in the paragraph ‘The arrestin2-clathrin interaction is independent of arrestin2 activation’

      “Due to significant line broadening and peak overlap of the arrestin2 resonances upon phosphopeptide addition, the influence of arrestin activation on the clathrin interaction could not be detected on either backbone or methyl resonances “.

      (5) Once phosphopeptide activates arrestin-2 and AP2 binds can phosphopeptide be exchanged off? In this case, would it be possible for the activated arrestin-2 AP2 complex to re-engage a new (phosphorylated) receptor?

      This would be an interesting mechanism. In principle, this should be possible as long as the other (phosphorylated) receptor outcompetes the initial phosphopeptide with higher affinity towards the binding site. However, we do not have experiments to assess this process directly. Therefore, we rather wish not to further speculate.

      (6) I'd be tempted to move the discussion of class A and class B GPCRs and their presumed differences to the intro and then motivate the paper with specific questions. 

      We appreciate the referee’s suggestion and had a similar idea previously. However, as we do not have data on other class-A or class-B receptors, we rather don’t want to motivate the entire manuscript by this question.

      (7) Did the authors ever try SEC measurements of arrestin-2 + AP2beta2+CCR5pp6 with and without PIP2, and with and without clathrin (CLTC NTD? The question becomes what the active complex is and how PIP2 modulates this cascade of complexation events in class B receptors.

      We thank the referee for this question. Indeed, we tested whether PIP2 can stabilize the arrestin2•CCR5pp6•AP2 complex by SEC experiments. Unfortunately, the addition of PIP2 increased the formation of arrestin2 dimers and higher oligomers, presumably due to the presence of additional charges. The resolution of SEC experiments was not sufficient to distinguish arrestin2 in oligomeric form or in arrestin2•CCR5pp6•AP2 complex. We now mention this in the text:

      “We also attempted to stabilize the arrestin2-AP2b2-phosphopetide complex through the addition of PIP2, which can stabilize arrestin complexes with the receptor (Janetzko et al., 2022). The addition of PIP2 increased the formation of arrestin2 dimers and higher oligomers, presumably due to the presence of additional charges. Unfortunately, the resolution of the SEC experiments was not sufficient to separate the arrestin2 oligomers from complexes with AP2b2”.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      Overall, this is a well-done study, and the conclusions are largely supported by the data, which will be of interest to the field. 

      Strengths: 

      Strengths of this study include experiments with solution NMR that can resolve high-resolution interactions of the highly flexible C-terminal tail of arr2 with clathrin and AP2. Although mainly confirmatory in defining the arr2 CBL376LIELD380 as the clathrin binding site, the use of the NMR is of high interest (Fig. 1). The 15N-labeled CLTC-NTD experiment with arr2 titrations reveals a span from 39-108 that mediates an arr2 interaction, which corroborates previous crystal data, but does not reveal a second area in CLTC-NTD that in previous crystal structures was observed to interact with arr2. 

      SEC and NMR data suggest that full-length arr2 (1-418) binding with 2-adaptin subunit of AP2 is enhanced in the presence of CCR5 phospho-peptides (Fig. 3). The pp6 peptide shows the highest degree of arr2 activation, and 2-adaptin binding, compared to less phosphorylated peptide or not phosphorylated at all. It is interesting that the arr2 interaction with CLTC NTD and pp6 cannot be detected using the SEC approach, further suggesting that clathrin binding is not dependent on arrestin activation. Overall, the data suggest that receptor activation promotes arrestin binding to AP2, not clathrin, suggesting the

      AP2 interaction is necessary for CCR5 endocytosis. 

      To validate the solid biophysical data, the authors pursue validation experiments in a HeLa cell model by confocal microscopy. This requires transient transfection of tagged receptor (CCR5-Flag) and arr2 (arr2-YFP). CCR5 displays a "class B"-like behavior in that arr2 is rapidly recruited to the receptor at the plasma membrane upon agonist activation, which forms a stable complex that internalizes onto endosomes (Fig. 4). The data suggest that complex internalization is dependent on AP2 binding not clathrin (Fig. 5). 

      The addition of the antagonist experiment/data adds rigor to the study. 

      Overall, this is a solid study that will be of interest to the field.

      We thank the referee for the careful and encouraging evaluation of our work. We appreciate the recognition of the solidity of our data and the support for our conclusions regarding the distinct roles of AP2 and clathrin in arrestin-mediated receptor internalization.

      Recommendations for the authors: 

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      I believe that the authors have made efforts to improve the accessibility to a broader audience. In a few cases, I believe that the authors response either did not truly address the concern or made the problem worse. I am grouping these as 'very strong opinions' and 'sticking point'. 

      Very strong opinion 1: 

      While data presentation is somewhat at the authors discretion, there were several figures where the presentation did not make the work approachable, including microscopy insets and NMR spectra. A suggestion to 'pinch and zoom' does not really address this. For the overlapping NMR spectra in supporting Figure 1, I actually -can- see this on zooming, but I did not recognize this on first pass because the colors are almost identical for the two spectra. This is an easy fix. Changing the presentation by coloring these distinctly would alleviate this. The Supplemental figure to Fig. 2 looks strange with pinch and zoom. But at the end of the day, data presentation where the reader is to infer that they must zoom in is not very approachable and may prevent readers from being able to independently assess the data. In this case, there doesn't seem to be a strong rationale to not make these panels easier to see at 100% size. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful comments regarding figure accessibility and agree that data presentation should be clear and interpretable without requiring readers to zoom in extensively. However, we must note that the presentation of the microscopy data follows standard practices in the field and that the panels already include zoomed-in regions, which enable easier access to key results and observations.

      Regarding the NMR data, we have revised Figure 1—figure supplement 2 and Figure 2— figure supplement 1 to match the presentation style of Figure 3—figure supplement 1, which the reviewer apparently found more accessible. We also made the colors of the spectra more vibrant, as the referee suggested. We would like to emphasize that it is absolutely necessary to display the full NMR spectra in order to allow independent assessment of signal assignment, data quality, and overall protein behavior. Zoomed regions of the relevant details are provided in the main figures.

      Very strong opinion 2: 

      The author's response to lack of individual data points and error bars is that this is an n=1 experiment. I do not believe this meets the minimum standard for best practices in the field.

      We respectfully disagree with the reviewer’s assessment. The Figure already displays individual data points, as shown already in the initial submission. Performing NMR titrations with isotopically labeled protein samples is inherently resource-intensive, and single-sample (n = 1) experiments are widely accepted and routinely reported in the field. Numerous studies have used the same approach, including Rosenzweig et al., Science (2013); Nikolaev et al., Nat. Methods (2019); and Hobbs et al., J. Biomol. NMR (2022), as well as our own recent work (Isaikina & Petrovic et al., Mol. Cell, 2023). These studies demonstrate that such NMR-based affinity measurements, even when performed on a single sample, are highly reproducible, precise, and consistent with orthogonal evidence and across different sample conditions.

      Sticking point:

      Figure 1A - the alphaFold model of arrestin2L depicts the disordered loops as ordered. The depiction is misleading at best, and inaccurate in truth. To use an analogy, what the authors depict is equivalent to publishing an LLM hallucination in the text. Unlike LLMs, alphaFold will actually flag its hallucination with the confidence (pLDDT) in the output. Both for LLMs and for alphaFold, we are spending much time teaching our students in class how to use computation appropriately - both to improve efficiency but also to ensure accuracy by removing hallucinations.

      The original review indicated that confidences needed to be shown and that this needed to be depicted in a way that clarifies that this is NOT a structural state of the loops. The newly added description ("The model was used to visualize the clathrin-binding loop and the 344-loop of the arrestin2 Cdomain, which are not detected in the available crystal structures...) worsens the concern because it even more strongly implies that a 0 confidence computational output is a likely structural state. It also indicates that these regions were 'not detected' in crystal structures. These regions of arrestin are intrinsically disordered. AlphaFold (by it's nature) must put out something in terms of coordinates, even if the pLDDT suggests that the region cannot be predicted or is not in a stable position, which is the case here. In crystal structures, these regions are not associated with interpretable electron density, meaning that coordinates are omitted in these regions because adding them would imply that under the conditions used, the protein adopts a low energy structural state in this region. This region is instead intrinsically disordered. 

      A good description of why showing disordered loops in a defined position is incorrect and how to instead depict disorder correctly is in Brotzakis et al. Nat communications 16, 1632 (2025) "AlphaFold prediction of structural ensembles of disordered proteins", where figures 3A, 4A, and 5A show one AlphaFold prediction colored by confidence and 3B, 4B and 5B are more accurate depictions of the structural ensemble. 

      Coming back to the original comment "The AlphaFold model could benefit from a more transparent discussion of prediction confidence and caveats. The younger crowd (part of the presumed intended readership) tends to be more certain that computational output is 'true'...." Right now, the authors are still showing in Fig 1A a depiction of arrestin with models for the loops that are untrue. They now added text indicating that these loops are visualized in an AlphaFold prediction and 'true' but 'not detected in crystal structures'. There is no indication in the text that these are intrinsically disordered. The lack of showing the pLDDT confidence and the lack of any indication that these are disordered regions is simply incorrect. 

      We appreciate the concern of the reviewer towards AlphaFold models. As NMR spectroscopists we are highly aware of intrinsic biomolecular motions. However, our AlphaFold2 model is used as a graphical representation to display the interaction sites of loops; it is not intended to depict the loops as fixed structural states. The flexibility of the loops had been clearly described in the main text before:

      “Arrestin2 consists of two consecutive (N- and C-terminal) β-sandwich domains (Figure 1A), followed by the disordered clathrin-binding loop (CBL, residues 353–386), strand b20 (residues 386–390), and a disordered C-terminal tail after residue 393”.

      and

      “Figure 1B depicts part of a 1H-15N TROSY spectrum (full spectrum in Figure 1-figure supplement 2A) of the truncated 15N-labeled arrestin2 construct arrestin21-393 (residues 1393), which encompasses the C-terminal strand β20, but lacks the disordered C-terminal tail. Due to intrinsic microsecond dynamics, the assignment of the arrestin21-393 1H-15N resonances by triple resonance methods is largely incomplete, but 16 residues (residues 367381, 385-386) within the mobile CBL could be assigned. This region of arrestin is typically not visible in either crystal or cryo-EM structures due to its high flexibility”.

      as well as in the legend to Figure 1:

      “The model was used to visualize the clathrin-binding loop and the 344-loop of the arrestin2 C-domain, which are not detected in the available crystal structures of apo arrestin2 [bovine: PDB 1G4M (Han et al., 2001), human: PDB 8AS4 (Isaikina et al., 2023)]. In the other structured regions, the model is virtually identical to the crystal structures”.

      We have now further added a label ‘AlphaFold2 model’ to Figure 1A and amended the respective Figure legend to

      “The model was used to visualize the clathrin-binding loop and the 344-loop of the arrestin2 C-domain, which are not detected in the available crystal structures of apo arrestin2 [bovine: PDB 1G4M (Han et al., 2001), human: PDB 8AS4 (Isaikina et al., 2023)] due to flexibility. In the other structured regions, the model is virtually identical to the crystal structures”.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      I appreciated the response by the authors to all of my questions. I have no further comments

      We thank the referee for the raised questions, which we believe have improved the quality of the manuscript.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This paper introduces a framework for modeling individual differences in decision-making by learning a low-dimensional representation (the "individuality index") from one task and using it to predict behaviour in a different task. The approach is evaluated on two types of tasks: a sequential value-based decision-making task and a perceptual decision task (MNIST). The model shows improved prediction accuracy when incorporating this learned representation compared to baseline models.

      The motivation is solid, and the modelling approach is interesting, especially the use of individual embeddings to enable cross-task generalization. That said, several aspects of the evaluation and analysis could be strengthened.

      (1) The MNIST SX baseline appears weak. RTNet isn't directly comparable in structure or training. A stronger baseline would involve training the GRU directly on the task without using the individuality index-e.g., by fixing the decoder head. This would provide a clearer picture of what the index contributes.

      (2) Although the focus is on prediction, the framework could offer more insight into how behaviour in one task generalizes to another. For example, simulating predicted behaviours while varying the individuality index might help reveal what behavioural traits it encodes.

      (3) It's not clear whether the model can reproduce human behaviour when acting on-policy. Simulating behaviour using the trained task solver and comparing it with actual participant data would help assess how well the model captures individual decision tendencies.

      (4) Figures 3 and S1 aim to show that individuality indices from the same participant are closer together than those from different participants. However, this isn't fully convincing from the visualizations alone. Including a quantitative presentation would help support the claim.

      (5) The transfer scenarios are often between very similar task conditions (e.g., different versions of MNIST or two-step vs three-step MDP). This limits the strength of the generalization claims. In particular, the effects in the MNIST experiment appear relatively modest, and the transfer is between experimental conditions within the same perceptual task. To better support the idea of generalizing behavioural traits across tasks, it would be valuable to include transfers across more structurally distinct tasks.

      (6) For both experiments, it would help to show basic summaries of participants' behavioural performance. For example, in the MDP task, first-stage choice proportions based on transition types are commonly reported. These kinds of benchmarks provide useful context.

      (7) For the MDP task, consider reporting the number or proportion of correct choices in addition to negative log-likelihood. This would make the results more interpretable.

      (8) In Figure 5, what is the difference between the "% correct" and "% match to behaviour"? If so, it would help to clarify the distinction in the text or figure captions.

      (9) For the cognitive model, it would be useful to report the fitted parameters (e.g., learning rate, inverse temperature) per individual. This can offer insight into what kinds of behavioural variability the individuality index might be capturing.

      (10) A few of the terms and labels in the paper could be made more intuitive. For example, the name "individuality index" might give the impression of a scalar value rather than a latent vector, and the labels "SX" and "SY" are somewhat arbitrary. You might consider whether clearer or more descriptive alternatives would help readers follow the paper more easily.

      (11) Please consider including training and validation curves for your models. These would help readers assess convergence, overfitting, and general training stability, especially given the complexity of the encoder-decoder architecture.

      Comments on revisions:

      Thank you to the authors for the updated manuscript. The authors have addressed the majority of my concerns, and the paper is now in a much better form.

      Regarding my previous Comment 6, I still believe it would be helpful to include a graph similar to what is typically reported for these tasks-specifically, a breakdown of choices based on rare versus common transitions (see Model-Based Influences on Humans' Choices and Striatal Prediction Errors, Figure 2). Presenting this for both the actual behaviour and the simulated data would strengthen the paper and allow for clearer comparison.

    2. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work presents a novel neural network-based framework for parameterizing individual differences in human behavior. Using two distinct decision-making experiments, the author demonstrates the approach's potential and claims it can predict individual behavior (1) within the same task, (2) across different tasks, and (3) across individuals. While the goal of capturing individual variability is compelling and the potential applications are promising, the claims are weakly supported, and I find that the underlying problem is conceptually ill-defined.

      Strengths:

      The idea of using neural networks for parameterizing individual differences in human behavior is novel, and the potential applications can be impactful.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) To demonstrate the effectiveness of the approach, the authors compare a Q-learning cognitive model (for the MDP task) and RTNet (for the MNIST task) against the proposed framework. However, as I understand it, neither the cognitive model nor RTNet is designed to fit or account for individual variability. If that is the case, it is unclear why these models serve as appropriate baselines. Isn't it expected that a model explicitly fitted to individual data would outperform models that do not? If so, does the observed superiority of the proposed framework simply reflect the unsurprising benefit of fitting individual variability? I think the authors should either clarify why these models constitute fair control or validate the proposed approach against stronger and more appropriate baselines.

      (2) It's not very clear in the results section what it means by having a shorter within-individual distance than between-individual distances. Related to the comment above, is there any control analysis performed for this? Also, this analysis appears to have nothing to do with predicting individual behavior. Is this evidence toward successfully parameterizing individual differences? Could this be task-dependent, especially since the transfer is evaluated on exceedingly similar tasks in both experiments? I think a bit more discussion of the motivation and implications of these results will help the reader in making sense of this analysis.

      (3) The authors have to better define what exactly he meant by transferring across different "tasks" and testing the framework in "more distinctive tasks". All presented evidence, taken at face value, demonstrated transferring across different "conditions" of the same task within the same experiment. It is unclear to me how generalizable the framework will be when applied to different tasks.

      (4) Conceptually, it is also unclear to me how plausible it is that the framework could generalize across tasks spanning multiple cognitive domains (if that's what is meant by more distinctive). For instance, how can an individual's task performance on a Posner task predict task performance on the Cambridge face memory test? Which part of the framework could have enabled such a cross-domain prediction of task performance? I think these have to be at least discussed to some extent, since without it the future direction is meaningless.

      (5) How is the negative log-likelihood, which seems to be the main metric for comparison, computed? Is this based on trial-by-trial response prediction or probability of responses, as what usually performed in cognitive modelling?

      (6) None of the presented evidence is cross-validated. The authors should consider performing K-fold cross-validation on the train, test, and evaluation split of subjects to ensure robustness of the findings.

      (7) The authors excluded 25 subjects (20% of the data) for different reasons. This is a substantial proportion, especially by the standards of what is typically observed in behavioral experiments. The authors should provide a clear justification for these exclusion criteria and, if possible, cite relevant studies that support the use of such stringent thresholds.

      (8) The authors should do a better job of creating the figures and writing the figure captions. It is unclear which specific claim the authors are addressing with the figure. For example, what is the key message of Figure 2C regarding transfer within and across participants? Why are the stats presentation different between the Cognitive model and the EIDT framework plots? In Figure 3, it's unclear what these dots and clusters represent and how they support the authors' claim that the same individual forms clusters. And isn't this experiment have 98 subjects after exclusion, this plot has way less than 98 dots as far as I can tell. Furthermore, I find Figure 5 particularly confusing, as the underlying claim it is meant to illustrate is unclear. Clearer figures and more informative captions are needed to guide the reader effectively.

      (9) I also find the writing somewhat difficult to follow. The subheadings are confusing, and it's often unclear which specific claim the authors are addressing. The presentation of results feels disorganized, making it hard to trace the evidence supporting each claim. Also, the excessive use of acronyms (e.g., SX, SY, CG, EA, ES, DA, DS) makes the text harder to parse. I recommend restructuring the results section to be clearer and significantly reducing the use of unnecessary acronyms.

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have addressed my previous comments with great care and detail. I appreciate the additional analyses and edits. I have no further comments.

    3. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Because the "source" and "target" tasks are merely parameter variations of the same paradigm, it is unclear whether EIDT achieves true crosstask transfer. The manuscript provides no measure of how consistent each participant's behaviour is across these variants (e.g., two- vs threestep MDP; easy vs difficult MNIST). Without this measure, the transfer results are hard to interpret. In fact, Figure 5 shows a notable drop in accuracy when transferring between the easy and difficult MNIST conditions, compared to transfers between accuracy-focused and speedfocused conditions. Does this discrepancy simply reflect larger withinparticipant behavioural differences between the easy and difficult settings? A direct analysis of intra-individual similarity for each task pair and how that similarity is related to EIDT's transfer performance is needed.

      Thank you for your insightful comment. We agree that the tasks used in our study are variations of the same paradigm. Accordingly, we have revised the manuscript to consistently frame our findings as demonstrating individuality transfer "across task conditions" rather than "across distinct tasks."

      In response to your suggestion, we have conducted a new analysis to directly investigate the relationship between individual behavioural patterns and transfer performance. As show in the new Figures 4, 11, S8, and S9, we found a clear relationship between the distance in the space of individual latent representation (called individuality index in the previous manuscript) and prediction performance. Specifically, prediction accuracy for a given individual's behaviour degrades as the latent representation of the model's source individual becomes more distant. This result directly demonstrates that our framework captures meaningful individual differences that are predictive of transfer performance across conditions.

      We have also expanded the Discussion (Lines 332--343) to address the potential for applying this framework to more structurally distinct tasks, hypothesizing that this would rely on shared underlying cognitive functions.

      Related to the previous comment, the individuality index is central to the framework, yet remains hard to interpret. It shows much greater within-participant variability in the MNIST experiment (Figure S1) than in the MDP experiment (Figure 3). Is such a difference meaningful? It is hard to know whether it reflects noisier data, greater behavioural flexibility, or limitations of the model.

      Thank you for raising this important point about interpretability. To enhance the interpretability of the individual latent representation, we have added a new analysis for the MDP task (see Figures 6 and S4). By applying our trained encoder to data from simulated Q-learning agents with known parameters, we demonstrate that the dimensions of the latent space systematically map onto the agents' underlying cognitive parameters (learning rate and inverse temperature). This analysis provides a clearer interpretation by linking our model's data-driven representation to established theoretical constructs.

      Regarding the greater within-participant variability observed in the MNIST task (visualized now in Figure S7), this could be attributed to several factors, such as greater behavioural flexibility in the perceptual task. However, disentangling these potential factors is complex and falls outside the primary scope of the current study, which prioritizes demonstrating robust prediction accuracy across different task conditions.

      The authors suggests that the model's ability to generalize to new participants "likely relies on the fact that individuality indices form clusters and individuals similar to new participants exist in the training participant pool". It would be helpful to directly test this hypothesis by quantifying the similarity (or distance) of each test participant's individuality index to the individuals or identified clusters within the training set, and assessing whether greater similarity (or closer proximity) to the clusters in the training set is associated with higher prediction accuracy for those individuals in the test set.

      Thank you for this excellent suggestion. We have performed the analysis you proposed to directly test this hypothesis. Our new results, presented in Figures 4, 11, S5, S8, and S9, quantify the distance between the latent representation of a test participant and that of the source participant used to generate the prediction model.

      The results show a significant negative correlation: prediction accuracy consistently decreases as the distance in the latent space increases. This confirms that generalization performance is directly tied to the similarity of behavioural patterns as captured by our latent representation, strongly supporting our hypothesis.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The MNIST SX baseline appears weak. RTNet isn't directly comparable in structure or training. A stronger baseline would involve training the GRU directly on the task without using the individuality index-e.g., by fixing the decoder head. This would provide a clearer picture of what the index contributes.

      We agree that a more direct baseline is crucial for evaluating the contribution of our transfer mechanism. For the Within-Condition Prediction scenario, the comparison with RTNet was intended only to validate that our task solver architecture could achieve average humanlevel task performance (Figure 7).

      For the critical Cross-Condition Transfer scenario, we have now implemented a stronger and more appropriate baseline, which we call ``task solver (source).'' This model has the same architecture as our EIDT task solver but is trained directly on the source task data of the specific test participant. As shown in revised Figure 9, our EIDT framework significantly outperforms this direct-training approach, clearly demonstrating the benefit of the individuality transfer mechanism.

      Although the focus is on prediction, the framework could offer more insight into how behaviour in one task generalizes to another. For example, simulating predicted behaviours while varying the individuality index might help reveal what behavioural traits it encodes.

      Thank you for this valuable suggestion. To provide more insight into the encoded behavioural traits, we have conducted a new analysis linking the individual latent representation to a theoretical cognitive model. As detailed in the revised manuscript (Figures 6 and S4), we applied our encoder to simulated data from Q-learning agents with varying parameters. The results show a systematic relationship between the latent space coordinates and the agents' learning rates and inverse temperatures, providing a clearer interpretation of what the representation captures.

      It's not clear whether the model can reproduce human behaviour when acting on-policy. Simulating behaviour using the trained task solver and comparing it with actual participant data would help assess how well the model captures individual decision tendencies.

      We have added the suggested on-policy evaluation (Lines 195--207). In the revised manuscript (Figure 5), we present results from simulations where the trained task solvers performed the MDP task. We compared their performance (total reward and rate of the highly-rewarding action selected) against their corresponding human participants. The strong correlations observed demonstrate that our model successfully captures and reproduces individual-specific behavioural tendencies in an onpolicy setting.

      Figures 3 and S1 aim to show that individuality indices from the same participant are closer together than those from different participants. However, this isn't fully convincing from the visualizations alone. Including a quantitative presentation would help support the claim.

      We agree that the original visualizations of inter- and intraparticipant distances was not sufficiently convincing. We have therefore removed that analysis. In its place, we have introduced a more direct and quantitative analysis that explicitly links the individual latent representation to prediction performance (see Figures 4, 11, S5, S8, and S9). This new analysis demonstrates that prediction error for an individual is a function of distance in the latent space, providing stronger evidence that the representation captures meaningful, individual-specific information.

      The transfer scenarios are often between very similar task conditions (e.g., different versions of MNIST or two-step vs three-step MDP). This limits the strength of the generalization claims. In particular, the effects in the MNIST experiment appear relatively modest, and the transfer is between experimental conditions within the same perceptual task. To better support the idea of generalizing behavioural traits across tasks, it would be valuable to include transfers across more structurally distinct tasks.

      We agree with this limitation and have revised the manuscript to be more precise. We now frame our contribution as "individuality transfer across task conditions" rather than "across tasks" to accurately reflect the scope of our experiments. We have also expanded the Discussion section (Line 332-343) to address the potential and challenges of applying this framework to more structurally distinct tasks, noting that it would likely depend on shared underlying cognitive functions.

      For both experiments, it would help to show basic summaries of participants' behavioural performance. For example, in the MDP task, first-stage choice proportions based on transition types are commonly reported. These kinds of benchmarks provide useful context.

      We have added behavioral performance summaries as requested. For the MDP task, Figure 5 now compares the total reward and rate of highlyrewarding action selected between humans and our model. For the MNIST task, Figure 7 shows the rate of correct responses for humans, RTNet, and our task solver across all conditions. These additions provide better context for the model's performance.

      For the MDP task, consider reporting the number or proportion of correct choices in addition to negative log-likelihood. This would make the results more interpretable.

      Thank you for the suggestion. To make the results more interpretable, we have added a new prediction performance metric: the rate for behaviour matched. This metric measures the proportion of trials where the model's predicted action matches the human's actual choice. This is now included alongside the negative log-likelihood in Figures 2, 3, 4, 8, 9, and 11.

      In Figure 5, what is the difference between the "% correct" and "% match to behaviour"? If so, it would help to clarify the distinction in the text or figure captions.

      We have clarified these terms in the revised manuscript. As defined in the Result section (Lines 116--122, 231), "%correct" (now "rate of correct responses") is a measure of task performance, whereas "%match to behaviour" (now "rate for behaviour matched") is a measure of prediction accuracy.

      For the cognitive model, it would be useful to report the fitted parameters (e.g., learning rate, inverse temperature) per individual. This can offer insight into what kinds of behavioural variability the individual latent representation might be capturing.

      We have added histograms of the fitted Q-learning parameters for the human participants in Supplementary Materials (Figure S1). This analysis revealed which parameters varied most across the population and directly informed the design of our subsequent simulation study with Q-learning agents (see response to Comment 2-2), where we linked these parameters to the individual latent representation (Lines 208--223).

      A few of the terms and labels in the paper could be made more intuitive. For example, the name "individuality index" might give the impression of a scalar value rather than a latent vector, and the labels "SX" and "SY" are somewhat arbitrary. You might consider whether clearer or more descriptive alternatives would help readers follow the paper more easily.

      We have adopted the suggested changes for clarity.

      "Individuality index" has been changed to "individual latent representation".

      "Situation SX" and "Situation SY" have been renamed to the more descriptive "Within-Condition Prediction" and "Cross-Condition Transfer", respectively.

      We have also added a table in Figure 7 to clarify the MNIST condition acronyms (EA/ES/DA/DS).

      Please consider including training and validation curves for your models. These would help readers assess convergence, overfitting, and general training stability, especially given the complexity of the encoder-decoder architecture.

      Training and validation curves for both the MDP and MNIST tasks have been added to Supplementary Materials (Figure S2 and S6) to show model convergence and stability.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      To demonstrate the effectiveness of the approach, the authors compare a Q-learning cognitive model (for the MDP task) and RTNet (for the MNIST task) against the proposed framework. However, as I understand it, neither the cognitive model nor RTNet is designed to fit or account for individual variability. If that is the case, it is unclear why these models serve as appropriate baselines. Isn't it expected that a model explicitly fitted to individual data would outperform models that do not? If so, does the observed superiority of the proposed framework simply reflect the unsurprising benefit of fitting individual variability? I think the authors should either clarify why these models constitute fair control or validate the proposed approach against stronger and more appropriate baselines.

      Thank you for raising this critical point. We wish to clarify the nature of our baselines:

      For the MDP task, the cognitive model baseline was indeed designed to account for individual variability. We estimated its parameters (e.g., learning rate) from each individual's source task behaviour and then used those specific parameters to predict their behaviour in the target task. This makes it a direct, parameter-based transfer model and thus a fair and appropriate baseline for individuality transfer.

      For the MNIST task, we agree that the RTNet baseline was insufficient for evaluating individual-level transfer in the "Cross-Condition Transfer" scenario. We have now introduced a much stronger baseline, the "task solver (source)," which is trained specifically on the source task data of each test participant. Our results (Figure 9) show that the EIDT framework significantly outperforms this more appropriate, individualized baseline, highlighting the value of our transfer method over direct, within-condition fitting.

      It's not very clear in the results section what it means by having a shorter within-individual distance than between-individual distances. Related to the comment above, is there any control analysis performed for this? Also, this analysis appears to have nothing to do with predicting individual behavior. Is this evidence toward successfully parameterizing individual differences? Could this be task-dependent, especially since the transfer is evaluated on exceedingly similar tasks in both experiments? I think a bit more discussion of the motivation and implications of these results will help the reader in making sense of this analysis.

      We agree that the previous analysis on inter- and intra-participant distances was not sufficiently clear or directly linked to the model's predictive power. We have removed this analysis from the manuscript. In its place, we have introduced a new, more direct analysis (Figures 4, 11, S5, S8, and S9) that demonstrates a quantitative relationship between the distance in the latent space and prediction accuracy. This new analysis shows that prediction error for an individual increases as a function of this distance, providing much stronger and clearer evidence that our framework successfully parameterizes meaningful individual differences.

      The authors have to better define what exactly he meant by transferring across different "tasks" and testing the framework in "more distinctive tasks". All presented evidence, taken at face value, demonstrated transferring across different "conditions" of the same task within the same experiment. It is unclear to me how generalizable the framework will be when applied to different tasks.

      Conceptually, it is also unclear to me how plausible it is that the framework could generalize across tasks spanning multiple cognitive domains (if that's what is meant by more distinctive). For instance, how can an individual's task performance on a Posner task predict task performance on the Cambridge face memory test? Which part of the framework could have enabled such a cross-domain prediction of task performance? I think these have to be at least discussed to some extent, since without it the future direction is meaningless.

      We agree with your assessment and have corrected our terminology throughout the manuscript. We now consistently refer to the transfer as being "across task conditions" to accurately describe the scope of our findings.

      We have also expanded our Discussion (Line 332-343) to address the important conceptual point about cross-domain transfer. We hypothesize that such transfer would be possible if the tasks, even if structurally different, rely on partially shared underlying cognitive functions (e.g., working memory). In such a scenario, the individual latent representation would capture an individual's specific characteristics related to that shared function, enabling transfer. Conversely, we state that transfer between tasks with no shared cognitive basis would not be expected to succeed with our current framework.

      How is the negative log-likelihood, which seems to be the main metric for comparison, computed? Is this based on trial-by-trial response prediction or probability of responses, as what usually performed in cognitive modelling?

      The negative log-likelihood is computed on a trial-by-trial basis. It is based on the probability the model assigned to the specific action that the human participant actually took on that trial. This calculation is applied consistently across all models (cognitive models, RTNet, and EIDT). We have added sentences to the Results section to clarify this point (Lines 116--122).

      None of the presented evidence is cross-validated. The authors should consider performing K-fold cross-validation on the train, test, and evaluation split of subjects to ensure robustness of the findings.

      All prediction performance results reported in the revised manuscript are now based on a rigorous leave-one-participant-out cross-validation procedure to ensure the robustness of our findings. We have updated the

      Methods section to reflect this (Lines 127--129 and 229).

      For some purely illustrative visualizations (e.g., plotting the entire latent space in Figures S3 and S7), we used a model trained on all participants' data to provide a single, representative example and avoid clutter. We have explicitly noted this in the relevant figure captions.

      The authors excluded 25 subjects (20% of the data) for different reasons. This is a substantial proportion, especially by the standards of what is typically observed in behavioral experiments. The authors should provide a clear justification for these exclusion criteria and, if possible, cite relevant studies that support the use of such stringent thresholds.

      We acknowledge the concern regarding the exclusion rate. The previous criteria were indeed empirical. We have now implemented more systematic exclusion procedure based on the interquartile range of performance metrics, which is detailed in Section 4.2.2 (Lines 489--498). This revised, objective criterion resulted in the exclusion of 42 participants (34% of the initial sample). While this rate is high, we attribute it to the online nature of the data collection, where participant engagement can be more variable. We believe applying these strict criteria was necessary to ensure the quality and reliability of the behavioural data used for modeling.

      The authors should do a better job of creating the figures and writing the figure captions. It is unclear which specific claim the authors are addressing with the figure. For example, what is the key message of Figure 2C regarding transfer within and across participants? Why are the stats presentation different between the Cognitive model and the EIDT framework plots? In Figure 3, it's unclear what these dots and clusters represent and how they support the authors' claim that the same individual forms clusters. And isn't this experiment have 98 subjects after exclusion, this plot has way less than 98 dots as far as I can tell. Furthermore, I find Figure 5 particularly confusing, as the underlying claim it is meant to illustrate is unclear. Clearer figures and more informative captions are needed to guide the reader effectively.

      We agree that several figures and analyses in the original manuscript were unclear, and we have thoroughly revised our figures and their captions to improve clarity.

      The confusing analysis in the old Figures 2C and 5 (Original/Others comparison) have been completely removed. The unclear visualization of the latent space for the test pool (old Figure 3 showing representations only from test participants) has also been removed to avoid confusion. For visualization of the overall latent space, we now use models trained on all data (Figures S3 and S7) and have clarified this in the captions. In place of these removed analyses, we have introduced a new, more intuitive "cross-individual" analysis (presented in Figures 4, 11, S5, S8, and S9). As explained in the new, more detailed captions, this analysis directly plots prediction performance as a function of the distance in latent space, providing a much clearer demonstration of how the latent representation relates to predictive accuracy.

      I also find the writing somewhat difficult to follow. The subheadings are confusing, and it's often unclear which specific claim the authors are addressing. The presentation of results feels disorganized, making it hard to trace the evidence supporting each claim. Also, the excessive use of acronyms (e.g., SX, SY, CG, EA, ES, DA, DS) makes the text harder to parse. I recommend restructuring the results section to be clearer and significantly reducing the use of unnecessary acronyms.

      Thank you for this feedback. We have made significant revisions to improve the clarity and organization of the manuscript. We have renamed confusing acronyms: "Situation SX" is now "Within- Condition Prediction," and "Situation SY" is now "Cross-Condition Transfer." We also added a table to clarify the MNIST condition acronyms (EA/ES/DA/DS) in Figure 7.

      The Results section has been substantially restructured with clearer subheadings.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study presents compelling new data that combine two FTD-tau mutations P301L/S320F (PL-SF), that reliably induce spontaneous full-length tau aggregation across multiple cellular systems. However, several conclusions would benefit from more validation. Key findings rely on quantification of overexposed immunoblot, and in some experiments, the tau bands shift in molecular weight that are not explained (and in some instances vary between experiments). The effect seems to be driven by the S320F mutation, with the P301L mutation enhancing the effect observed with S320F alone. Although the observation that Hsp70, but not the related Hsc70, enhances aggregation is intriguing, the mechanistic basis for these differences remains unclear despite both Hsp70 and Hsc70 binding to tau. Additional experiments clarifying which PL-SF tau species Hsp70 engages, how this interaction alters tau conformational landscapes, and whether other chaperones or cofactors contribute to this effect would help solidify the conclusions and build a mechanistic picture. Overexpression of Hsp70 in the context of PL tau did not increase tau aggregation, which raises questions about whether the observed effects are specific to the SF mutation. Hsp70 functions in the context of a larger network of chaperones and has been proposed to cooperate with other proteins/machinery to disassemble tau amyloids, perhaps to produce more seeds. This would be consistent with the presented observations. For example, co-IP experiments using Hsp70 as bait combined with proteomics could really help build a more complete picture of what tau species Hsp70 binds and what other factors cooperate to yield the observed increases in aggregation. As it stands, the Hsp70 component of the paper is not fully developed, and additional experiments to address these questions would strengthen this manuscript beyond simply presenting a new tool to study spontaneous tau aggregation.

      Strengths:

      (1) The PL-SF FL tau mutant aggregates spontaneously in different cellular systems and shows hallmarks of tau pathology linked to disease.

      (2) PL-SF 4delta mutant reverses the spontaneous aggregation phenotype, consistent with these residues being critical for tau aggregation.

      (3) PL-SF 4delta also loses the ability to recruit Hsp70/Hsc70, consistent with these residues also being critical for chaperone recruitment.

      (4) The PL-SF tau mutant establishes a new system to study spontaneous tau assembly and to begin to compare it to seeded tau aggregation processes.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Mechanistic insight into how Hsp70 but not Hsc70 increase PL-SF FL tau aggregation/pathology is missing. This is despite both chaperones binding to PL-SF FL tau. What species of tau does Hsp70 bind, and what cofactors are important in this process?

      (2) The study relies heavily on densitometry of bands to draw conclusions; in several instances, the blots are overexposed to accurately quantify the signal.

    2. Author response:

      Reviewer #1

      (1) Mechanistic insight into how Hsp70 but not Hsc70 increase PL-SF FL tau aggregation/pathology is missing. This is despite both chaperones binding to PL-SF FL tau. What species of tau does Hsp70 bind, and what cofactors are important in this process?

      We agree that explaining why Hsp70, but not Hsc70, promotes tau aggregation would strengthen the study. Although both chaperones bind tau, they diverge slightly in 1) protein sequence, 2) biochemical activity, and 3) co-chaperone engagement.

      Sequence: Hsp70 has an extra cysteine residue (Cys306) that is highly reactive to oxidation and a glycine residue that is critical for cysteine oxidation (Gly557). Both residues are specific to Hsp70 (not present in Hsc70) and may alter Hsp70 conformation or client handling (Hong et al., 2022).

      Biochemical activity: Prior studies indicate that Hsp70’s ATPase domain (NBD) is critical for tau interactions (Jinwal et al., 2009; Fontaine et al., 2015; Young et al., 2016) and can be disrupted with point mutations including K71E and E175S for ATPase and A406G/V438G for substrate binding (Fontaine et al., 2015).

      Co-chaperone engagement: Hsp70 recruits the co-chaperone and E3 ubiquitin ligase CHIP/Stub1 more strongly than Hsc70, suggesting co-chaperone engagement could lead to differences in tau processing (Jinwal et al., 2013).

      To directly test how the two closely related chaperones could differentially impact tau, we plan to perform the following experiments:

      (a) We will mutate residues responsible for cysteine reactivity in Hsp70 including the cysteine itself (Cys306) and the critical glycine that facilitates cysteine reactivity (Gly557). These residues will be deleted from Hsp70 or alternatively inserted into Hsc70 to determine whether cysteine reactivity is the reason for Hsp70’s ability to drive tau aggregation.

      (b) We will generate Hsp70 mutants lacking ATPase- or substrate-binding mutants to determine which Hsp70 domains are responsible for driving tau aggregation.

      (c) We will perform seeding assays in stable tau-expressing cell lines to determine whether Hsp70/Hsc70 overexpression or depletion alters seeded tau aggregation.

      (d) We will perform confocal microscopy to determine the extent of co-localization of Hsp70 or Hsc70 with phospho-tau, oligomeric tau, or Thioflavin-S (ThioS) to identify which tau species are engaged by Hsp70/Hsc70.

      (e) We will perform immunoprecipitation pull-downs followed by mass spectrometry to globally identify any relevant Hsp70/Hsc70 interacting factors that might account for the differences in tau aggregation.

      (2) The study relies heavily on densitometry of bands to draw conclusions; in several instances, the blots are overexposed to accurately quantify the signal.

      All immunoblots were acquired as 16-bit TIFFs with exposure settings chosen to prevent pixel saturation, and quantification was performed on raw, unsaturated images. Brightness and contrast adjustments were applied only for visualization and did not alter pixel values used for analysis. All quantified bands fell within the linear range of the detector, with one exception in Figure 7B, which we removed from quantification. We will add both low- and high-exposure versions of immunoblots to the revised figures to demonstrate signal linearity and dynamic range.

      Reviewer #2

      (1) Although the PL-SF model can accelerate tau aggregation, it is crucial to determine whether this aligns with the temporal progression and spatial distribution of tau pathology in the brains of patients with tauopathies.

      No single tauopathy model fully recapitulates the temporal and spatial progression of human tauopathies. The PL-SF system is not intended to model the disease course. Rather, it is an excellent model for mechanistic studies of mature tau aggregation, which is otherwise challenging to study. We note that prior studies showed that PL-SF tau expression in transgenic mice (Xia et al., 2022 and Smith et al., 2025) and rhesus monkeys (Beckman et al., 2021) led to prion-like tau seeding and aggregation in hippocampal and cortical regions. Indeed, the spatial and temporal tau aggregation patterns aligned with features of human tauopathies. So far, these findings all support PL-SF as a valid accelerated model of tauopathy than can be used to interrogate pathogenic mechanisms that impact tau processing, degradation, and/or aggregation.

      (2) The authors did not elucidate the specific molecular mechanism by which Hsp70 promotes tau aggregation.

      We agree that a deeper understanding of the molecular mechanism is needed. The revision experiments outlined above (Reviewer #1, point #1) will define how Hsp70 promotes tau aggregation by testing sequence contributions, dissecting ATPase and substrate-binding domain requirements, and mapping Hsp70/Hsc70 interactors to directly address this mechanistic question.

      (3) Some figures in this study show large error bars in the quantitative data (some statistical analysis figures, MEA recordings, etc.), indicating significant inter-sample variability. It is recommended to label individual data points in all quantitative figures and clearly indicate them in figure legends.

      We acknowledge the inter-sample variability in some of the quantitative datasets. This level of variability can occur in primary neuronal cultures (e.g., MEA recordings) that are sensitive to growth and surface adhesion conditions, leading to many technical considerations. To improve transparency and interpretation, we will revise all quantitative figures to display individual data points overlaid on summary statistics and will update figure legends to clearly indicate sample sizes and statistical tests used.

      References

      Hong Z, Gong W, Yang J, Li S, Liu Z, Perrett S, Zhang H. Exploration of the cysteine reactivity of human inducible Hsp70 and cognate Hsc70. J Biol Chem. 2023 Jan;299(1):102723. doi: 10.1016/j.jbc.2022.102723. Epub 2022 Nov 19. PMID: 36410435; PMCID: PMC9800336.

      Jinwal UK, Miyata Y, Koren J 3rd, Jones JR, Trotter JH, Chang L, O'Leary J, Morgan D, Lee DC, Shults CL, Rousaki A, Weeber EJ, Zuiderweg ER, Gestwicki JE, Dickey CA. Chemical manipulation of hsp70 ATPase activity regulates tau stability. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 30;29(39):12079-88. doi: 10.1523/JNEUROSCI.3345-09.2009. PMID: 19793966; PMCID: PMC2775811.

      Fontaine SN, Rauch JN, Nordhues BA, Assimon VA, Stothert AR, Jinwal UK, Sabbagh JJ, Chang L, Stevens SM Jr, Zuiderweg ER, Gestwicki JE, Dickey CA. Isoform-selective Genetic Inhibition of Constitutive Cytosolic Hsp70 Activity Promotes Client Tau Degradation Using an Altered Co-chaperone Complement. J Biol Chem. 2015 May 22;290(21):13115-27. doi: 10.1074/jbc.M115.637595. Epub 2015 Apr 11. PMID: 25864199; PMCID: PMC4505567

      Young ZT, Rauch JN, Assimon VA, Jinwal UK, Ahn M, Li X, Dunyak BM, Ahmad A, Carlson G, Srinivasan SR, Zuiderweg ERP, Dickey CA, Gestwicki JE. Stabilizing the Hsp70‑Tau Complex Promotes Turnover in Models of Tauopathy. Cell Chem Biol. 2016 Aug 4;23(8):992–1001. doi:10.1016/j.chembiol.2016.04.014.

      Jinwal UK, Akoury E, Abisambra JF, O'Leary JC 3rd, Thompson AD, Blair LJ, Jin Y, Bacon J, Nordhues BA, Cockman M, Zhang J, Li P, Zhang B, Borysov S, Uversky VN, Biernat J, Mandelkow E, Gestwicki JE, Zweckstetter M, Dickey CA. Imbalance of Hsp70 family variants fosters tau accumulation. FASEB J. 2013 Apr;27(4):1450-9. doi: 10.1096/fj.12-220889. Epub 2012 Dec 27. PMID: 23271055; PMCID: PMC3606536.

      Xia, Y., Prokop, S., Bell, B.M. et al. Pathogenic tau recruits wild-type tau into brain inclusions and induces gut degeneration in transgenic SPAM mice. Commun Biol 5, 446 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1038/s42003-022-03373-1.

      Smith ED, Paterno G, Bell BM, Gorion KM, Prokop S, Giasson BI. Tau from SPAM Transgenic Mice Exhibit Potent Strain-Specific Prion-Like Seeding Properties Characteristic of Human Neurodegenerative Diseases. Neuromolecular Med. 2025 May 30;27(1):44. doi: 10.1007/s12017-025-08850-4. PMID: 40447946; PMCID: PMC12125038.

      Beckman D, Chakrabarty P, Ott S, Dao A, Zhou E, Janssen WG, Donis-Cox K, Muller S, Kordower JH, Morrison JH. A novel tau-based rhesus monkey model of Alzheimer's pathogenesis. Alzheimers Dement. 2021 Jun;17(6):933-945. doi: 10.1002/alz.12318. Epub 2021 Mar 18. PMID: 33734581; PMCID: PMC8252011.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study presents convincing findings that oligodendrocytes play a regulatory role in spontaneous neural activity synchronization during early postnatal development, with implications for adult brain function. Utilizing targeted genetic approaches, the authors demonstrate how oligodendrocyte depletion impacts Purkinje cell activity and behaviors dependent on cerebellar function. Delayed myelination during critical developmental windows is linked to persistent alterations in neural circuit function, underscoring the lasting impact of oligodendrocyte activity.

      Strengths:

      (1) The research leverages the anatomically distinct olivocerebellar circuit, a well-characterized system with known developmental timelines and inputs, strengthening the link between oligodendrocyte function and neural synchronization.

      (2) Functional assessments, supported by behavioral tests, validate the findings of in vivo calcium imaging, enhancing the study's credibility.

      (3) Extending the study to assess long-term effects of early life myelination disruptions adds depth to the implications for both circuit function and behavior.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The study would benefit from a closer analysis of myelination during the periods when synchrony is recorded. Direct correlations between myelination and synchronized activity would substantiate the mechanistic link and clarify if observed behavioral deficits stem from altered myelination timing.

      (2) Although the study focuses on Purkinje cells in the cerebellum, neural synchrony typically involves cross-regional interactions. Expanding the discussion on how localized Purkinje synchrony affects broader behaviors-such as anxiety, motor function, and sociality - would enhance the findings' functional significance.

      (3) The authors discuss the possibility of oligodendrocyte-mediated synapse elimination as a possible mechanism behind their findings, drawing from relevant recent literature on oligodendrocyte precursor cells. However, there are no data presented supporting these assumptions. The authors should explain why they think the mechanism behind their observation extends beyond the contribution of myelination or remove this point from the discussion entirely.

      Comment for resubmission: Although the argument on synaptic elimination has been removed, it has been replaced with similarly unclear speculation about roles for oligodendrocytes outside of conventional myelination or metabolic support, again without clear evidence. The authors measured MBP area but have not performed detailed analysis of oligodendrocyte biology to support the claims made in the discussion. Please consider removing this section or rephrasing it to align with the data presented.

      (4) It would be valuable to investigate secondary effects of oligodendrocyte depletion on other glial cells, particularly astrocytes or microglia, which could influence long-term behavioral outcomes. Identifying whether the lasting effects stem from developmental oligodendrocyte function alone or also involve myelination could deepen the study's insights.

      (5) The authors should explore the use of different methods to disturb myelin production for a longer time, in order to further determine if the observed effects are transient or if they could have longer-lasting effects.

      (6) Throughout the paper, there are concerns about statistical analyses, particularly on the use of the Mann-Whitney test or using fields of view as biological replicates.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This study presents convincing findings that oligodendrocytes play a regulatory role in spontaneous neural activity synchronisation during early postnatal development, with implications for adult brain function. Utilising targeted genetic approaches, the authors demonstrate how oligodendrocyte depletion impacts Purkinje cell activity and behaviours dependent on cerebellar function. Delayed myelination during critical developmental windows is linked to persistent alterations in neural circuit function, underscoring the lasting impact of oligodendrocyte activity. 

      Strengths: 

      (1) The research leverages the anatomically distinct olivocerebellar circuit, a well-characterized system with known developmental timelines and inputs, strengthening the link between oligodendrocyte function and neural synchronization. 

      (2) Functional assessments, supported by behavioral tests, validate the findings of in vivo calcium imaging, enhancing the study's credibility. 

      (3) Extending the study to assess the long-term effects of early-life myelination disruptions adds depth to the implications for both circuit function and behavior.

      We appreciate these positive evaluation.

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) The study would benefit from a closer analysis of myelination during the periods when synchrony is recorded. Direct correlations between myelination and synchronized activity would substantiate the mechanistic link and clarify if observed behavioral deficits stem from altered myelination timing. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s thoughtful suggestion and have expanded the manuscript to clarify how oligodendrocyte maturation relates to the development of Purkinje-cell synchrony. The developmental trajectory of Purkinje-cell synchrony has already been comprehensively characterized by Good et al. (2017, Cell Reports 21: 2066–2073): synchrony drops from a high level at P3–P5 to adult-like values by P8. We found that the myelination in the cerebellum starts to appear from P5-P7 (Figure S1A, B), indicating that the timing of Purkinje cell desynchronization coincides with the initial appearance of oligodendrocytes and myelin in the cerebellum. To determine whether myelin growth could nevertheless modulate this process, we quantified ASPA-positive oligodendrocyte density and MBP-positive bundle thickness and area at P10, P14, P21 and adulthood (Fig. 1J, K, Fig. S1E). Both metrics increase monotonically and clearly lag behind the rapid drop in synchrony, indicating that myelination could be not the primary trigger for the desynchronization. When oligodendrocytes were ablated during the second postnatal week, the synchrony was reduced (new Fig. 2). Thus, once myelination is underway, oligodendrocytes become critical for maintaining the synchrony, acting not as the initiators but as the stabilizers and refiners of the mature network state.

      We have added the new subsection in discussion (lines 451–467) now in which we propose a two-phase model. Phase I (P3–P8): High early synchrony is generated by non-myelin mechanisms (e.g. transient gap junctions, shared climbing-fiber input). Phase II (P8-). As oligodendrocytes proliferate and ensheath axons, they fine-tune conduction velocity and stabilize the mature, low-synchrony network state.

      We believe these additions fully address the reviewer’s concerns.

      (2) Although the study focuses on Purkinje cells in the cerebellum, neural synchrony typically involves cross-regional interactions. Expanding the discussion on how localized Purkinje synchrony affects broader behaviors - such as anxiety, motor function, and sociality - would enhance the findings' functional significance.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s helpful suggestion and have expanded the Discussion (lines 543–564) to clarify how localized Purkinje-cell synchrony can influence broader behavioral domains. In the revised text we note that changes in PC synchrony propagate  into thalamic, prefrontal, limbic, and parietal targets, thereby impacting distributed networks involved in motor coordination, affect, and social interaction. Our optogenetic rescue experiments further support this framework, as transient resynchronization of PCs normalized sociability and motor coordination while leaving anxiety-like behavior impaired. This dissociation highlights that different behavioral domains rely to varying degrees on precise cerebellar synchrony and underscores how even localized perturbations in Purkinje timing can acquire system-level significance.

      (3) The authors discuss the possibility of oligodendrocyte-mediated synapse elimination as a possible mechanism behind their findings, drawing from relevant recent literature on oligodendrocyte precursor cells. However, there are no data presented supporting this assumption. The authors should explain why they think the mechanism behind their observation extends beyond the contribution of myelination or remove this point from the discussion entirely.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out that our original discussion of oligodendrocyte-mediated synapse elimination was not directly supported by data in the present manuscript. Because we are actively analyzing this question in a separate, follow-up study, we have deleted the speculative passage to keep the current paper focused on the demonstrated, myelination-dependent effects. We believe this change sharpens the mechanistic narrative and fully addresses the reviewer’s concern.

      (4) It would be valuable to investigate the secondary effects of oligodendrocyte depletion on other glial cells, particularly astrocytes or microglia, which could influence long-term behavioral outcomes. Identifying whether the lasting effects stem from developmental oligodendrocyte function alone or also involve myelination could deepen the study's insights. 

      We thank the reviewer for raising this point and have performed the requested analyses. Using IBA1 immunostaining for microglia and S100b for Bergmann glia, we quantified cell density and these marker signal intensity at P14 and P21. Neither microglial or Bergmann-glial differed between control and oligodendrocyte-ablated mice at either time‐point (new Figure S2). These results indicate that the behavioral phenotypes we report are unlikely to arise from secondary activation or loss of other glial populations.

      We now added results (lines 275–286) and also discuss myelination and other oligodendrocyte function (lines 443–450). It remains difficult to disentangle conduction-related effects from myelination-independent trophic roles of oligodendrocytes. We therefore note explicitly that future work employing stage-specific genetic tools or acute metabolic manipulations will be required to parse these contributions more definitively.

      (5) The authors should explore the use of different methods to disturb myelin production for a longer time, in order to further determine if the observed effects are transient or if they could have longer-lasting effects.

      We agree that distinguishing transient from enduring effects is critical. Importantly, our original submission already included data demonstrating a persistent deficit of PC population synchrony (Fig. 4, previous Fig. 3): (i) at P14—the early age after oligodendrocyte ablation—population synchrony is reduced, and (ii) the same deficit is still present in adults (P60–P70) despite full recovery of ASPA-positive cell density and MBP-area and -thickness (Fig. 2H-K, Fig. S1E, and Fig. 4). We also performed the ablation of oligodendrocytes after the third postnatal week. Despite a similar acute drop in ASPA-positive cells, neither population synchrony nor anxiety-, motor-, or social behaviors differed from littermate controls. Thus, extending myelin disruption beyond the developmental window does not exacerbate or prolong the phenotype, whereas a short perturbation within that window leaves a permanent timing defect. These findings strengthen our conclusion that it is the developmental oligodendrocyte/myelination program itself—rather than ongoing adult myelin production—that is essential for establishing stable network synchrony. We now highlight this point explicitly in the revised Discussion (lines 507–522).

      (6) Throughout the paper, there are concerns about statistical analyses, particularly on the use of the Mann-Whitney test or using fields of view as biological replicates.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s guidance on appropriate statistical treatment. To address these concerns we have re-analyzed all datasets that contained multiple measurements per animal (e.g., fields of view, lobules, or trials) using nested statistics with animal as the higher-order unit. Specifically, we applied a two-level nested ANOVA when more than two groups were compared and a nested t-test when two conditions were present. The re-analysis confirmed all original conclusions. Because the nested models yielded comparable effect sizes to the Mann–Whitney tests, we have retained the mean ± SEM for ease of comparison with prior literature but now also report all values for each mouse in Table 1. In cases where a single measurement per mouse was compared between two groups, we used the Mann–Whitney test and present the results in the graphs as median values.

      Major

      (1) The authors present compelling evidence that early loss of myelination disrupts synchronous firing prematurely. However, synchronous neuronal firing does not equate to circuit synchronization. It is improbable that myelination directly generates synchronous firing in Purkinje cells (PCs). For instance, Foran et al. (1992) identified that cerebellar myelination begins around postnatal day 6 (P6), while Good et al. (2017) recorded a developmental decline in PC activity correlation from P5-P11. To clarify myelin's role, we recommend detailed myelin imaging through light microscopy (MBP staining at higher magnification) to assess the extent of myelin removal accurately. Myelin sheaths, as shown by Snaidero et al. (2020), can persist after oligodendrocyte (OL) death, particularly following DTA induction (Pohl et al. 2011). Quantification of MBP+ area, rather than mean MBP intensity, is necessary to accurately measure myelin coverage.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern that residual sheaths might remain after oligodendrocyte ablation and have therefore re-examined myelin at higher spatial resolution. Then, two independent metrics were extracted: MBP⁺ area fraction in the white matter and MBP⁺ bundle thickness (new Figure 1J, K, and Fig. S1E). We confirm a robust, transient loss of myelin at P10 and P14 as shown by the reduction of MBP⁺ area and MBP⁺ bundle thickness. Both parameters recovered to control values by P21 and adulthood, indicating effective remyelination. These data demonstrate that, in our paradigm, oligodendrocyte ablation is accompanied by substantial sheath loss rather than the persistent myelin reported after acute toxin exposure. We have added them in Result (lines 266–271).

      The results reinforce the view that myelin removal and/or loss of trophic support during a narrow developmental window drive the long-term hyposynchrony and behavioral phenotypes we report. We have added the new subsection in discussion (lines 443–450) now in which we propose a two-phase model. Phase I (P3–P8): High early synchrony is generated by non-myelin mechanisms (e.g. transient gap junctions, shared climbing-fiber input). Phase II (P8-). As oligodendrocytes proliferate and ensheath axons, they fine-tune conduction velocity and stabilize the mature, low-synchrony network state. We believe these additions fully address the reviewer’s concerns.

      (2) Surprisingly, the authors speculate about oligodendrocyte-mediated synaptic pruning without supportive data, shifting the focus away from the potential impact of myelination. Even if OLs perform synaptic pruning, OL depletion would likely maintain synchrony, yet the opposite was observed. Further characterisation of the model and the potential source of the effect is needed. 

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out that our original discussion of oligodendrocyte-mediated synapse elimination was not directly supported by data in the present manuscript. Because we are actively analyzing this question in a separate, follow-up study, we have deleted the speculative passage to keep the current paper focused on the demonstrated, myelination-dependent effects. We believe this change sharpens the mechanistic narrative and fully addresses the reviewer’s concern.

      (3) Improved characterization of the DTA model would add clarity. Although almost all infected cells are reported as OLs, quantification of infected OL-lineage cells (e.g., via Olig2 staining) would verify this. It remains possible that observed activity changes are driven by OL-independent demyelination effects. We suggest cross-staining with Iba1 and GFAP to rule out inflammation or gliosis. 

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion and have expanded our histological characterization accordingly. First, to verify that DTA expression is confined to mature oligodendrocytes, we co-stained cerebellar sections collected 7 days after AAV-hMAG-mCherry injection with Olig2 (pan-OL lineage) and ASPA (mature OL marker) as shown in Figure S1C-D. Quantitative analysis revealed that 100 % of mCherry⁺ cells were Olig2⁺/ASPA⁺, whereas mCherry signal was virtually absent in Olig2⁺/ASPA⁻ immature oligodendrocytes. These data confirm that our DTA manipulation targets mature myelinating OLs rather than earlier lineage stages. We have added them in Result (lines 260–262).

      Second, to examine indirect effects mediated by other glia, we performed cross-staining with IBA1 (microglia) and S100β (Bergmann). Cell density and fluorescence intensity for each marker were indistinguishable between control and DTA groups at P14 and P21 (Figure S2A-H). Thus, neither inflammation nor astro-/microgliosis accompanies OL ablation. We have added them in Result (lines 275–286).

      Collectively, these results demonstrate that the observed desynchronization and behavioral phenotypes arise from specific loss of mature oligodendrocytes and their myelin, rather than from off-target viral expression or secondary glial responses.

      (4) The use of an independent model of myelin loss, such as the inducible Myrf knockout mouse with a MAG promoter, to assess if oligodendrocyte loss causes temporary or sustained impacts, employing an extended knockout model like Myrf cKO with MAG-Cre viral methods would be advantageous.

      We agree that distinguishing transient from enduring effects is critical. Importantly, our original submission already included data demonstrating a persistent deficit of PC population synchrony (Fig. 4, previous Fig. 3): (i) at P13-15—the early age after oligodendrocyte ablation—population synchrony is reduced, and (ii) the same deficit is still present in adults (P60–P70) despite full recovery of ASPA-positive cell density and MBP-area and -thickness (Fig. 2H-K, Fig. S1E, and Fig. 4). We also performed the ablation of oligodendrocytes after the third postnatal week. Despite a similar acute drop in ASPA-positive cells, neither population synchrony nor anxiety-, motor-, or social behaviors differed from littermate controls. Thus, extending myelin disruption beyond the developmental window does not exacerbate or prolong the phenotype, whereas a short perturbation within that window leaves a permanent timing defect. These findings strengthen our conclusion that it is the developmental oligodendrocyte/myelination program itself—rather than ongoing adult myelin production—that is essential for establishing stable network synchrony. We now highlight this point explicitly in the revised Discussion (lines 507–522).

      (5) For statistical robustness, the use of non-parametric tests (Mann-Whitney) necessitates reporting the median instead of the mean as the authors do. Furthermore, as repeated measurements within the same animal are not independent, the authors should ideally use nested ANOVA (or nested t-test comparing two conditions) to validate their findings (Aarts et al., Nat. Neuroscience 2014). Alternatively use one-way ANOVA with each animal as a biological replicate, although this means that the distribution in the data sets per animal is lost.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s guidance on appropriate statistical treatment. To address these concerns we have re-analyzed all datasets that contained multiple measurements per animal (e.g., fields of view, lobules, or trials) using nested statistics with animal as the higher-order unit. Specifically, we applied a two-level nested ANOVA when more than two groups were compared and a nested t-test when two conditions were present. The re-analysis confirmed all original conclusions. Because the nested models yielded comparable effect sizes to the Mann–Whitney tests, we have retained the mean ± SEM for ease of comparison with prior literature but now also report all values for each mouse in Table 1. In cases where a single measurement per mouse was compared between two groups, we used the Mann–Whitney test and present the results in the graphs as median values.

      Minor Points 

      (1) In all figures, please specify the ages at which each procedure was conducted, as demonstrated in Figure 2A.

      All main and supplementary figures now specify the exact postnatal age.

      (2) Clarify the selection criteria for regions of interest (ROI) in calcium imaging, and provide representative ROIs.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s guidance. We have clarified that our ROI detection followed the protocol reported by our previous paper (Tanigawa et al., 2024, Communications Biology) (lines 177-178) and representative Purkinje cell ROIs are now shown in Fig. 2B.

      (3) Include data on the proportion of climbing fiber or inferior olive neurons expressing Kir and the total number of neurons transfected, which would help contextualize the observed effects on PC synchronization and its broader implications for cerebellar circuit function.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s guidance. New Fig. 7C summarizes the efficiency of AAV-GFP and AAV-Kir2.1-GFP injections into the inferior olive. Across 4 mice PCs with GFP-labeled CFs was detected in 19.3 ± 11.9 (mean ± S.D.) % for control and 26.2 ± 11.8 (mean ± S.D.) % for Kir2.1 of PCs. These numbers are reported in the Results (lines 373–375).

      (4) Higher magnification images in Figures 1 and S3 would improve visual clarity. 

      We have addressed the request for higher-magnification images in two ways. First, all panels in Figure S3 were placed on a larger canvas. Second, in Figure 1 we adjusted panel sizes to emphasize fine structure: panel 1C already represents an enlargement of the RFP positive cells shown in 1B, and panel 1H and 1J now occupies a wider span so that every ASPA-positive cell body can be distinguished. Should the reviewer still require an even closer view, we have additional ready for upload.

      (5) Consider language editing to enhance overall clarity and readability.

      The entire manuscript was edited to improve flow, consistency, and readability.

      (6) Refine the discussion to align with the presented data.

      We have refined the discussion.

      Thank you once again for your constructive suggestions and comments. We believe these changes have improved the clarity and readability of our manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      We appreciate Reviewer #2’s positive evaluation of our work and thank him/her for the constructive suggestions and comments. We followed these suggestions and comments and have conducted additional experiments. We have rewritten the manuscript and revised the figures according to the points Reviewer #1 mentioned. Our point-by-point responses to the comments are as follows.

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, the authors use genetic tools to ablate oligodendrocytes in the cerebellum during postnatal development. They show that the oligodendrocyte numbers return to normal post-weaning. Yet, the loss of oligodendrocytes during development seems to result in decreased synchrony of calcium transients in Purkinje neurons across the cerebellum. Further, there were deficits in social behaviors and motor coordination. Finally, they suppress activity in a subset of climbing fibers to show that it results in similar phenotypes in the calcium signaling and behavioral assays. They conclude that the behavioral deficits in the oligodendrocyte ablation experiments must result from loss of synchrony. 

      Strengths:

      Use of genetic tools to induce perturbations in a spatiotemporally specific manner.

      We appreciate these positive evaluation.

      Weaknesses: 

      The main weakness in this manuscript is the lack of a cohesive causal connection between the experimental manipulation performed and the phenotypes observed. Though they have taken great care to induce oligodendrocyte loss specifically in the cerebellum and at specific time windows, the subsequent experiments do not address specific questions regarding the effect of this manipulation.

      Calcium transients in Purkinje neurons are caused to a large extent by climbing fibers, but there is evidence for simple spikes to also underlie the dF/F signatures (Ramirez and Stell, Cell Reports, 2016).

      We thank the reviewer for drawing attention to the work of Ramirez & Stell (2016), which showed that simple-spike bursts can elicit Ca²⁺ rises, but only in the soma and proximal dendrites of adult Purkinje cells. In our study, Regions of Interest were restricted to the dendritic arbor, where SS-evoked signals are essentially undetectable (Ramirez & Stell, 2016), whereas climbing-fiber complex spikes generate large, all-or-none transients (Good et al., 2017). Accordingly, even if a rare SS-driven event reached threshold it would likely fall outside our ROIs.

      In addition, we directly imaged CF population activity by expressing GCaMP7f in inferior-olive neurons. Correlation analysis of CF boutons revealed that DTA ablation lowers CF–CF synchrony at P14 (new Fig. 3A–D). Because CF synchrony is a principal driver of Purkinje-cell co-activation, this reduction provides a mechanistic link between oligodendrocyte loss and the hyposynchrony we observe among Purkinje cells. Consistent with this interpretation, electrophysiological recordings showed that parallel-fiber EPSCs and inhibitory synaptic inputs onto Purkinje cells were unchanged by DTA treatment (Fig. 3E-H) , which makes it less likely that the reduced synchrony simply reflects changes in other excitatory or inhibitory synaptic drive.

      That said, SS-dependent somatic Ca²⁺ signals could still influence downstream plasticity and long-term cerebellar function. In future work we therefore plan to combine somatic imaging with stage-specific oligodendrocyte manipulations to test whether SS-evoked Ca²⁺ dynamics are themselves modulated by oligodendrocyte support. We have added these descriptions in the Results (lines 288–294) and Discussion (lines 423–434).

      Also, it is erroneous to categorize these calcium signals as signatures of "spontaneous activity" of Purkinje neurons as they can have dual origins.

      Thank you for pointing out the potential ambiguity. In the revised manuscript we have clarified how we use the term “spontaneous activity” in the context of our measurements (lines 289-290). Our calcium imaging was restricted to the dendritic arbor of Purkinje cells, where calcium transients are dominated by climbing-fiber (CF) inputs (Ramirez & Stell, 2016; Good et al., 2017). Thus, the synchrony values reported here primarily reflect CF-driven complex spikes rather than mixed signals of dual origin. We have revised the Results section accordingly (lines 289–293) to make this measurement-specific limitation explicit.

      Further, the effect of developmental oligodendrocyte ablation on the cerebellum has been previously reported by Mathis et al., Development, 2003. They report very severe effects such as the loss of molecular layer interneurons, stunted Purkinje neuron dendritic arbors, abnormal foliations, etc. In this context, it is hardly surprising that one would observe a reduction of synchrony in Purkinje neurons (perhaps due to loss of synaptic contacts, not only from CFs but also from granule cells).

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comparison to Mathis et al. (2003). Mathis et al. used MBP–HSV-TK transgenic mice in which systemic FIAU treatment eliminates oligodendrocytes. When ablation began at P1, they observed severe dysmorphology—loss of molecular-layer interneurons, Purkinje-cell (PC) dendritic stunting, and abnormal foliation. Crucially, however, the same study reports that starting the ablation later (FIAU from P6-P20) left cerebellar cyto-architecture entirely normal.

      Our AAV MAG-DTA paradigm resembles this later window. Our temporally restricted DTA protocol produces the same ‘late-onset’ profile—robust yet reversible hypomyelination with no loss of Purkinje cells, interneurons, dendritic length, or synaptic input (new Fig. S1–S2, Fig. 3E-H). The enduring hyposynchrony we report therefore cannot be attributed to the dramatic anatomical defects seen after prenatal ablation, but instead reveals a specific requirement for early-postnatal myelin in stabilizing PC synchrony, especially affecting CF-CF synchrony.

      This clarification shows that we have carefully considered the Mathis model and that our findings not only replicate, but also extend the earlier work. We have added these description in Result (lines 273-286)

      The last experiment with the expression of Kir2.1 in the inferior olive is hardly convincing.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern and have reinforced the causal link between Purkinje-cell synchrony and behavior. To test whether restoring PC synchrony is sufficient to rescue behavior, we introduced a red-shifted opsin (AAV-L7-rsChrimine) into PCs of DTA mice raised to adulthood. During testing we delivered 590-nm light pulses (10 ms, 1 Hz) to the vermis, driving brief, population-wide spiking (new Fig. 8). This periodic re-synchronization left anxiety measures unchanged (open-field center time remained low) but rescued both motor coordination (rotarod latency normalized to control levels) and sociability (time spent with a novel mouse restored). The dissociation implies that distinct behavioral domains differ in their sensitivity to PC timing precision and confirms that reduced synchrony—not cell loss or gross circuit damage (Fig. S1F, S2)—is the primary driver of the motor and social deficits. Together, the optogenetic rescue establishes a bidirectional, mechanistic link between PC synchrony and behavior, addressing the reviewer’s reservations about the original experiment. We have added these descriptions in Result (lines 394-415)

      In summary, while the authors used a specific tool to probe the role of developmental oligodendrocytes in cerebellar physiology and function, they failed to answer specific questions regarding this role, which they could have done with more fine-grained experimental analysis.

      Thank you once again for your constructive suggestions and comments. We believe these changes have improved the clarity and readability of our manuscript.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Show that ODC loss is specific to the cerebellum.

      We thank the reviewer for requesting additional evidence. To verify that oligodendrocyte ablation was confined to the cerebellum, we injected an AAV carrying mCherry under the human MAG promoter (AAV-hMAG-mCherry) into the cerebellum, and screened the whole brain one week later. As shown in the new Figure 1E–G, mCherry positive cells were present throughout the injected cerebellar cortex (Fig. 1E), but no fluorescent cells were detected in extracerebellar regions—including cerebral cortex, medulla, pons, midbrain. These data demonstrate that our viral approach are specific to the cerebellum, ruling out off-target demyelination elsewhere in the CNS as a contributor to the behavioral and synchrony phenotypes. We have added these descriptions in Result (lines 262-264)

      (2) Characterize the gross morphology of the cerebellum at different developmental stages. Are major cell types all present? Major pathways preserved? 

      We thank the reviewer for requesting additional evidence. To ensure that the developmental loss of oligodendrocytes did not globally disturb cerebellar architecture, we performed a comprehensive histological and electrophysiological survey during development. New data are presented (new Fig. S1–S2, Fig. 3E-H).

      (1) Overall morphology. Low-magnification parvalbumin counterstaining revealed similar cerebellar area in DTA versus control mice at every age (Fig. S1F, G).

      (2) Major neuronal classes. Quantification of parvalbumin-positive Purkinje cells and interneurons showed no differences in density between control and DTA (Fig. S2E, H, M, N, P). Purkinje dendritic arbors were not different between control and DTA (Fig. S2G, O).

      (3) Excitatory and inhibitory synapse inputs. Miniature IPSCs and Parallel-fiber-EPSCs onto Purkinje cells were quantified; neither was differed between groups (Fig. 3E-G).

      (4) Glial populations. IBA1-positive microglia and S100β-positive astrocytes exhibited normal density and marker intensity (Fig. S2).

      Taken together, these analyses show that all major cell types are present at normal density, synaptic inputs from excitatory and inhibitory neurons are preserved, and gross cerebellar morphology is intact after DTA-mediated oligodendrocyte ablation.

      (3) Recording of PNs to see whether the lack of synchrony is due to CFs or simple spikes.

      We thank the reviewer for drawing attention to the work of Ramirez & Stell (2016), which showed that simple-spike bursts can elicit Ca<sup>2+</sup> rises, but only in the soma and proximal dendrites of adult Purkinje cells. In our study, Regions of Interest were restricted to the dendritic arbor, where SS-evoked signals are essentially undetectable (Ramirez & Stell, 2016), whereas climbing-fiber complex spikes generate large, all-or-none transients (Good et al., 2017). Accordingly, even if a rare SS-driven event reached threshold it would likely fall outside our ROIs.

      In addition, we directly imaged CF population activity by expressing GCaMP7f in inferior-olive neurons. Correlation analysis of CF boutons revealed that DTA ablation lowers CF–CF synchrony at P14 (new Fig. 3A–D). Because CF synchrony is a principal driver of Purkinje-cell co-activation, this reduction provides a mechanistic link between oligodendrocyte loss and the hyposynchrony we observe among Purkinje cells. Consistent with this interpretation, electrophysiological recordings showed that parallel-fiber EPSCs and inhibitory synaptic inputs onto Purkinje cells were unchanged by DTA treatment (Fig. 3E-H) , which makes it less likely that the reduced synchrony simply reflects changes in other excitatory or inhibitory synaptic drive.

      That said, SS-dependent somatic Ca<sup>2+</sup> signals could still influence downstream plasticity and long-term cerebellar function. In future work we therefore plan to combine somatic imaging with stage-specific oligodendrocyte manipulations to test whether SS-evoked Ca²⁺ dynamics are themselves modulated by oligodendrocyte support. We have added these descriptions in the Results (lines 301–312) and Discussion (lines 423–434).

      (4) Is CF synapse elimination altered? Test using evoked EPSCs or staining methods.

      We agree that directly testing whether oligodendrocyte loss disturbs climbing-fiber synapse elimination would provide a full mechanistic picture. We are already quantifying climbing fiber terminal number with vGluT2 immunostaining and recording evoked CF-EPSCs in the same DTA model; these data, together with an analysis of how population synchrony is involved in synapse elimination, will form the basis of a separate manuscript now in preparation. To keep the present paper focused on the phenomena we have rigorously documented—transient oligodendrocyte loss and the resulting long-lasting hyposynchrony and abnormal behaviors—we have removed the speculative sentence on oligodendrocyte-mediated synapse elimination. We believe this revision meets the reviewer’s request without over-extending the current dataset.

      Thank you once again for your constructive suggestions and comments. We believe these changes have improved the clarity and readability of our manuscript.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Okabe and colleagues build on a super-resolution-based technique that they have previously developed in cultured hippocampal neurons, improving the pipeline and using it to analyze spine nanostructure differences across 8 different mouse lines with mutations in autism or schizophrenia (Sz) risk genes/pathways. It is a worthy goal to try to use multiple models to examine potential convergent (or not) phenotypes, and the authors have made a good selection of models. They identify some key differences between the autism versus the Sz risk gene models, primarily that dendritic spines are smaller in Sz models and (mostly) larger in autism risk gene models. They then focus on three models (2 Sz - 22q11.2 deletion, Setd1a; 1 ASD - Nlgn3) for time-lapse imaging of spine dynamics, and together with computational modelling provide a mechanistic rationale for the smaller spines in Sz risk models. Bulk RNA sequencing of all 8 model cultures identifies several differentially expressed genes, which they go on to test in cultures, finding that ecgr4 is upregulated in several Sz models and its misexpression recapitulates spine dynamics changes seen in the Sz mutants, while knockdown rescues spine dynamics changes in the Sz mutants. Overall, these have the potential to be very interesting findings and useful for the field. However, I do have a number of major concerns.

      (1) The main finding of spine nanostructure changes is done by carrying out a PCA on various structural parameters, creating spine density plots across PC1 and PC2, and then subtracting the WT density plot from the mutant. Then, spines in the areas with obvious differences only are analyzed, from which they derive the finding that, for example, spine sizes are smaller. However, this seems a circular approach. It is like first identifying where there might be a difference in the data, then only analyzing that part of the data. I welcome input from a statistician, but to me, this is at best unconventional and potentially misleading. I assume the overall means are not different (although this should be included), but could they look at the distribution of sizes and see if these are shifted?

      (2) Despite extracting 64 parameters describing spine structure, only 5 of these seemed to be used for the PCA. It should be possible to use all parameters and show the same results. More information on PC1 and PC2 would be helpful, given that the rest of the paper is based on these - what features are they related to? These specific features could then be analyzed in the full dataset, without doing the cherry picking above. It would also be helpful to demonstrate whether PC1 and 2 differ across groups - for example, the authors could break their WT data into 2 subsets and repeat the analysis.

      (3) Throughout the paper, the 'n' used for statistical analysis is often spine, which is not appropriate. At a minimum, cell should be used, but ideally a nested mixed model, which would take into account factors like cell, culture, and animal, would be preferable. Also, all of these factors should be listed, with sufficient independent cultures.

      (4) The authors should confirm that all mutants are also on the C57BL/6J background, and clarify whether control cultures are from littermates (this would be important). Also, are control versus mutant cultures done simultaneously? There can be significant batch effects with cultures.

      (5) The spine analysis uses cultures from 18-22 DIV - this is quite a large range. It would be worth checking whether age is a confounder or correlated with any parameters / principal components.

      (6) The computational modelling is interesting, but again, I am concerned about some circularity. Parameter optimization was used to identify the best fit model that replicated the spine turnover rates, so it is somewhat circular to say that this matched the observations when one of these is the turnover rate. It is more convincing for spine density and size, but why not go back and test whether parameter differences are actually seen - for example, it would be possible to extract the probability of nascent spine loss, etc. More compelling would be to repeat the experiments and see if the model still fits the data. In the interpretation (line 314-318) it is stated that '... reduced spine maturation rate can account for the three key properties of schizophrenia-related spines...', which is interesting if true, but it has just been stated that the probability of spine destabilization is also higher in mutants (line 303) - the authors should test whether if the latter is set to be the same as controls whether all the findings are replicated.

      (7) No validation for overexpression or knockdown is shown, although it is mentioned in the methods - please include. Also, for the knockdown, a scrambled shRNA control would be preferable.

      (8) The finding regarding ecgr4 is interesting, but showing that some ecgr4 is expressed at boutons and spines and some in DCVs is not enough evidence to suggest that actively involved in the regulation of synapse formation and maturation (line 356).

      (9) The same caveats that apply to the analysis also apply to the ecgr4 rescue. In addition, while for 22q the control shRNA mutant vs WT looks vaguely like Figure 2, setd1a looks completely different. And if rescued, surely shRNA in the mutant should now resemble control in WT, so there shouldn't be big differences, but in fact, there are just as many differences as comparing mutant vs wildtype? Plus, for spine features, they only compare mutant rescue with mutant control, but this is not ideal - something more like a 2-way ANOVA is really needed. Maybe input from a statistician might be useful here?

      (10) Although this is a study entirely focused on spine changes in mouse models for Sz, there is no discussion (or citation) of the various studies that have examined this in the literature. For example, for Setd1a, smaller spines or reduced spine densities have been described in various papers (Mukai et al, Neuron 2019; Chen et al, Sci Adv 2022; Nagahama et al, Cell Rep 2020).

      (11) There is a conceptual problem with the models if being used to differentiate autism risk from Sz risk genes. It is difficult to find good mouse models for Sz, so the choice of 22q11.2del and Setd1a haploinsufficiency is completely reasonable. However, these are both syndromic. 22qdel syndrome involves multiple issues, including hearing loss, delayed development, and learning disabilities, and is associated with autism (20% have autism, as compared to 25% with Sz). Similarly, Setd1a is also strongly associated with autism as well as Sz (and also involves global developmental delay and intellectual disability). While I think this is still the best we can do, and it is reasonable to say that these models show biased risk for these developmental disorders, it definitely can't be used as an explanation for the higher variability seen in the autism risk models.

      (12) I am not convinced that using dissociated cultures is 'more likely to reflect the direct impact of schizophrenia-related gene mutations on synaptic properties' - first, cultures do have non-neuronal cells, although here glial proliferation was arrested at 2 days, glia will be present with the protocol used (or if not, this needs demonstrating). Second, activity levels will affect spine size, and activity patterns are very abnormal in dissociated cultures, so it is very possible that spine changes may not translate into in vivo scenarios. Overall, it is a weakness that the dissociated culture system has been used, which is not to say that it is not useful, and from a technical and practical perspective, there are good justifications.

      (13) As a minor comment, the spine time-lapse imaging is a strength of the paper. I wonder about the interpretation of Figure 5. For example, the results in Figure 5G and J look as if they may be more that the spines grow to a smaller size and start from a smaller size, rather than necessarily the rate of growth.

    2. Author response:

      Reviewer #1

      (1) The main weakness is that the study is wholly in vitro, using cultured hippocampal neurons.

      We appreciate this reviewer's concern about the limitation of cultured hippocampal neurons in extracting disease-related spine phenotypes. While we fully recognize this limitation, we consider that this in vitro system has several advantages that contribute to translational research on mental disorders.

      First, our culture system has been shown to support the development of spine morphology similar to that of the hippocampal CA1 excitatory synapse in vivo. High-resolution imaging techniques confirmed that the in vitro spine structure was highly preserved compared with in vivo preparations (Kashiwagi et al., Nature Communications, 2019). The present study used the same culture system and SIM imaging. Therefore, the difference we detected in samples derived from disease models is likely to reflect impairment of molecular mechanisms underlying native structural development in vivo.

      Second, super-resolution imaging of thousands of spines in tissue preparations under precisely controlled conditions cannot be practically applied using currently available techniques. The advantage of our imaging and analytical pipeline is its reproducibility, which enabled us to compare the spine population data from eight different mouse models without normalization.

      Third, a reduced culture system can demonstrate the direct effects of gene mutations on synapse phenotypes, independent of environmental influences. This property is highly advantageous for screening chemical compounds that rescue spine phenotypes. Neuronal firing patterns and receptor functions can also be easily controlled in a culture system. The difference in spine structure between ASD and schizophrenia mouse models is valuable information to establish a drug screening system.

      Fourth, establishing an in vitro system for evaluating synapse phenotypes could reduce the need for animal experiments. Researchers should be aware of the 3Rs principles. In the future, combined with differentiation techniques for human iPS cells, our in vitro approach will enable the evaluation of disease-related spine phenotypes without the need for animal experiments. The effort to establish a reliable culture system should not be eliminated.

      (2) Another weakness is that CaMKIIαK42R/K42R mutant mice are presented as a schizophrenia model.

      We agree with this reviewer that CAMK2A mutations in humans are linked to multiple mental disorders, including developmental disorders, ASD, and schizophrenia. Association of gene mutations with the categories of mental disorders is not straightforward, as the symptoms of these disorders also overlap with each other. For the CaMKIIα K42R/K42R mutant, we considered the following points in its characterization as a model of mental disorder. Analysis of CaMKIIα +/- mice in Dr. Tsuyoshi Miyakawa's lab has provided evidence for the reduced CaMKIIα in schizophrenia-related phenotypes (Yamasaki et al., Mol Brain 2008; Frankland et al., Mol Brain Editorial 2008). It is also known that the CaMKIIα R8H mutation in the kinase domain is linked to schizophrenia (Brown et al., 2021). Both CaMKIIα R8H and CaMKIIα K42R mutations are located in the N-terminal domain and eliminate kinase activity. On the other hand, the representative CaMKIIα E183V mutation identified in ASD patients exhibits unique characteristics, including reduced kinase activity, decreased protein stability and expression levels, and disrupted interactions with ASD-associated proteins such as Shank3 (Stephenson et al., 2017). Importantly, reduced dendritic spines in neurons expressing CaMKIIα E183V is a property opposite to that of the CaMKIIα K42R/K42R mutant, which showed increased spine density (Koeberle et al. 2017).

      Different CAMK2A mutations likely cause distinct phenotypes observed in the broad spectrum of mental disorders. In the revised manuscript, we will include a discussion of the relevant literature to categorize this mouse model appropriately.

      References related to this discussion.

      (1) Yamasaki et al., Mol Brain. 2008 DOI: 10.1186/1756-6606-1-6

      (2) Frankland et al. Mol Brain. 2008 DOI: 10.1186/1756-6606-1-5

      (3) Stephenson et al., J Neurosci. 2017 DOI: 10.1523/JNEUROSCI.2068-16.2017

      (4) Koeberle et al. Sci Rep. 2017 DOI: 10.1038/s41598-017-13728-y

      (5) Brown et al., iScience. 2021 DOI: 10.1016/j.isci.2021.103184

      Reviewer #2

      We recognize the reviewer's comments as important for improving our manuscript. We outline our general approach to addressing major concerns. Detailed responses to each point, along with additional data, will be provided in a formal revised manuscript.

      (1) Demonstrating the robustness of statistical analyses

      We appreciate this reviewer's concern about our strategies for the quantitative analysis of the large spine population. For the PCA analysis (Point 2), our preliminary results indicated that including all parameters or the selected five parameters did not make a significant difference in the relative placement of spines with specific morphologies in the feature space defined by the principal components. This point will be discussed in the revised manuscript. The potential problem of selecting a particular region within a feature space for spine shape analysis (Point 1) can be addressed by using alternative simulation-based approaches, such as bootstrap or permutation tests. These analyses will be included in the revised manuscript. The use of sample numbers in statistical analyses should align with the analysis's purpose (Point 3). When analyzing the distribution of samples in the feature space, it is necessary to use spine numbers for statistical assessment. We will recheck the statistical methods and apply the appropriate method for each analysis. The spine population data in Figures 2 and 8 cannot be directly compared, as the spine visualization methods differ (Figure 2 with membrane DiI labeling; Figure 8 with cytoplasmic GFP labeling) (Point 9). Spine populations of the same size are inevitably plotted in different feature spaces. This point will be discussed more clearly in the revised manuscript.

      (2) Clarification of experimental conditions and data reliability

      Per this reviewer's suggestion, we will provide more information on the genetic background of mice and the differences in spine structure from DIV 18-22 (Points 4 and 5). We will also provide additional validation data for the functional analyses using knockdown and overexpression methods, for which we already have preliminary data (Point 7). Concerns about the interpretation of data obtained from in vitro culture (Point 12), raised by this reviewer, are also noted by reviewer #1. As explained in the response to reviewer #1, we intentionally selected an in vitro culture system to analyze multiple samples derived from mouse models of mental disorders for several reasons. Nevertheless, we will revise the discussion and incorporate the points this reviewer raised regarding the disadvantages of in vitro systems.

      (3) Validation of biological mechanisms and interpretation

      In the computational modeling (Point 6), we started from the data of spine turnover (excluding the data of spine volume increase/decrease), fitted the model with the data, and found that the best-fit model showed three features: fast spine turnover, lower spine density, and smaller size of transient spines in schizophrenia mouse models. As the reviewer noted, information about spine turnover is already present in the input data. However, the other two properties are generated independently of the input data, indicating the value of this model. We plan to add additional confirmatory analyses to this model in the revised manuscript.

      In response to Point 8, we will provide supporting data on the functional role of Ecgr4 in synapse regulation. We will also refine our discussion on the ASD and Schizophrenia phenotypes based on the suggested literature (Points 10 and 11). Quantification of the initial growth of spines is technically demanding, as it requires higher imaging frequency and longer time-lapse recordings to capture rare events. It is difficult to conclude which of the two possibilities, slow spine growth or initial size differences, is correct, based on our available data. This point will be discussed in the revised manuscript (Point 13).

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary of goals:

      The authors' stated goal (line 226) was to compare gene expression levels for gut hormones between males and females. As female flies contain more fat than males, they also sought to identify hormones that control this sex difference. Finally, they attempted to place their findings in the broader context of what is already known about established underlying mechanisms.

      Strengths:

      (1) The core research question of this work is interesting. The authors provide a reasonable hypothesis (neuro/entero-peptides may be involved) and well-designed experiments to address it.

      (2) Some of the data are compelling, especially positive results that clearly implicate enteropeptides in sex-biased fat contents (Figures 1 and 3).

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The greatest weakness of this work is that it falls short of providing a clear mechanism for the regulation of sex-biased fat content by AstC and Tk. By and large, feminization of neurons or enteroendocrine cells with UAS-traF did not increase fat in males (Figure 2). The authors mention that ecdysone, juvenile hormone or Sex-lethal may instead play a role (lines 258-270), but this is speculative, making this study incomplete.

      (2) Related to the above point, the cellular mechanisms by which AstC and Tk regulate fat content in males and females are only partially characterized. For example, knockdown of TkR99D in insulin-producing neurons (Figure 4E) but not pan-neuronally (Figure 4B) increases fat in males, but Tk itself only shows a tendency (Figure 3B). In females, the situation is even less clear: again, Tk only shows a tendency (Figure 3B), and pan-neuronal, but not IPC-specific knockdown of TkR99D decreases fat.

      (3) The text sometimes misrepresents or contradicts the Results shown in the figures. UAS-traF expression in neurons or enteroendocrine cells did sometimes alter fat contents (Figure 2H, S), but the authors report that sex differences were unaffected (lines 164-166). On the other hand, although knockdown of Tk in enteroendocrine cells caused no significant effect (Figure 3B), the authors report this as a trend towards reduction (lines 182-183). This biased representation raises concerns about the interpretation of the data and the authors' conclusions.

      (4) The authors find that in males, neuropeptide expression in the head is higher (Figure 1F-J). This may also play an important role in maintaining lower levels of fat in males, but this finding is not explored in the manuscript.

      Appraisal of goal achievement & conclusions:

      The authors were successful in identifying hormones that show sex bias in their expression and also control the male vs. female difference in fat content. However, elucidation of the relevant cellular pathways is incomplete. Additionally, some of their conclusions are not supported by the data (see Weaknesses, point 3).

      Impact:

      It is difficult to evaluate the impact of this study. This is in great part because the authors do not attempt to systematically place their findings about AstC/Tk in the broader context of their previous studies, which investigated the same phenomenon (Wat et al., 2021, eLife and Biswas et al., 2025, Cell Reports). As the underlying mechanisms are complex and likely redundant, it is necessary to generate a visual model to explain the pathways which regulate fat content in males and females.

    1. STUPNE ODKÁZANOSTI

      Stupeň odkázanosti sa určí na základe počtu základných životných potrieb, ktoré fyzická osoba nie je schopná samostatne uspokojovať. Základné životné potreby, ktoré fyzická osoba nie je schopná samostatne uspokojovať, a ich počet sa určí na základe dotazníka k určeniu odkázanosti fyzickej osoby na pomoc inej fyzickej osoby. Stupeň odkázanosti Počet základných životných potrieb, ktoré fyzická osoba nad 15 rokov veku nie je schopná samostatne uspokojovať Počet základných životných potrieb, ktoré fyzická osoba do 15 rokov veku nie je schopná samostatne uspokojovať I. ľahká odkázanosť 1 – 2 1 II. stredne ľahká odkázanosť 3 – 4 2 – 3

    1. By Strawperson:Level 1: “There’s a lion across the river.” = There’s a lion across the river.Level 2: “There’s a lion across the river.” = I don’t want to go (or have other people go) across the river.Level 3: “There’s a lion across the river.” = I’m with the popular kids who are too cool to go across the river.Level 4: “There’s a lion across the river.” = A firm stance against trans-river expansionism focus grouped well with undecided voters in my constituency.

      I never realized a simple statement can be viewed from so many perspectives, I wonder of a AI Prompt Ecology can do a similar level of Analysis from various perspectives and then Synthesize action items

    2. One way to test which level someone is on is what would make them say the opposite of what they say now:Level 1: If they see enough evidence in the opposite direction.Level 2: If people begin responding the opposite way to the same statement.Level 3: If your group starts saying the opposite.Level 4: If you benefit more from saying the opposite.

      The idea of saying stuff people will object to in conversation or debate to check if they are engaging is a pretty great strategy.

      Taking strong opinions is required for the Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis cognitive pattern

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      better diet, get good sleep and exercise

    1. Les Algorithmes Contre la Société : Synthèse des Analyses d'Hubert Guillaud

      Résumé Exécutif

      Ce document de synthèse expose les arguments principaux développés par Hubert Guillaud, journaliste et essayiste, concernant l'impact sociétal des systèmes algorithmiques.

      L'analyse révèle que loin d'être des outils neutres, les algorithmes constituent une nouvelle logique systémique qui transforme en profondeur les services publics et les rapports sociaux.

      Leur fonction première est de calculer, trier et appareiller, traduisant le fait social en une simple "combinaison de chiffres".

      Les points critiques à retenir sont les suivants :

      La discrimination comme fonctionnalité : Par nature, le calcul est une machine à différencier.

      Des systèmes comme Parcoursup ou le "score de risque" de la Caisse d'Allocations Familiales (CAF) génèrent des distinctions souvent aberrantes et fictionnelles pour classer les individus, ce qui institutionnalise la discrimination sous couvert d'objectivité mathématique.

      Ciblage des populations précaires : L'automatisation des services publics cible et surveille de manière disproportionnée les populations les plus vulnérables.

      La CAF, par exemple, ne chasse pas tant la fraude que les "indus" (trop-perçus), affectant principalement les personnes aux revenus morcelés et complexes comme les mères isolées.

      Menace sur les principes démocratiques :

      L'interconnexion croissante des données entre les administrations (CAF, Impôts, France Travail, Police) menace la séparation des pouvoirs en créant un système de surveillance généralisée où les faiblesses d'un individu dans un domaine peuvent avoir des répercussions dans tous les autres.

      La massification déguisée : Contrairement à l'idée d'une personnalisation poussée, les algorithmes opèrent une massification des individus.

      Ils ne ciblent pas des personnes uniques mais les regroupent en permanence dans des catégories larges et standardisées à des fins de contrôle ou de publicité.

      Un risque de dérive fasciste : En systématisant la discrimination et en la rendant opaque et invisible, ces technologies créent un terrain propice à des dérives autoritaires, un risque qualifié par Hubert Guillaud de "fasciste".

      En conclusion, bien que ces technologies posent une menace sérieuse, Hubert Guillaud les replace dans un contexte plus large, arguant que les enjeux primordiaux demeurent le réchauffement climatique et les logiques du capitalisme financier, dont les algorithmes ne sont qu'un outil d'amplification.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      1. Introduction : La Logique Algorithmique et ses Enjeux Sociétaux

      La discussion, introduite par Marine Placa, doctorante en droit public, s'articule autour de l'ouvrage d'Hubert Guillaud, Les algorithmes contre la société.

      L'enjeu central est "l'immixtion d'une nouvelle logique algorithmique plus insidieuse et plus systémique à la délivrance des prestations de services publics".

      Cette logique, qui "traduit le fait social comme une combinaison de chiffres", gouverne de plus en plus l'environnement des individus avec des conséquences tangibles.

      Plusieurs critiques majeures sont soulevées dès l'introduction :

      Opacité et injustice : Les systèmes d'IA sont souvent trop opaques, discriminants et il est impossible d'expliciter les décisions qui en résultent.

      Déconnexion des réalités : Alors que les investissements massifs se poursuivent (109 milliards d'euros débloqués par le gouvernement français), les retours d'expérience alertent sur les "dégâts sociaux, démocratiques et écologiques".

      Technologie privée : La technologie est privée, développée par des capitaux privés et dictée par les "mastodontes économiques de la Silicon Valley".

      Son usage est ainsi largement influencé par des intérêts de profit plutôt que par le bien commun.

      L'IA n'est pas autonome : L'IA "ne décide de rien.

      Elle ne raisonne pas." Elle est le résultat d'une conception humaine, et son impact dépend moins de son essence que de son usage.

      2. Définition et Fonctionnement des Algorithmes

      Selon Hubert Guillaud, les systèmes algorithmiques, de l'algorithme simple à l'IA complexe, doivent être compris comme une "continuité technologique" de systèmes de calcul appliqués à la société. Leur fonctionnement repose sur trois fonctions fondamentales :

      | Fonction | Description | Exemple | | --- | --- | --- | | 1\. Produire des scores | Transformer des informations qualitatives (mots, comportements) en données quantitatives (chiffres, notes). | Un profil sur une application de rencontre est "scoré", une demande d'aide sociale reçoit une note de risque. |

      | 2\. Trier | Classer les individus ou les informations en fonction des scores produits. | Les candidats sur Parcoursup sont classés du premier au dernier. |

      | 3\. Apparier (Le "mariage") | Faire correspondre une demande à une offre sur la base du tri effectué. | Un étudiant est appareillé à une formation, un demandeur d'emploi à un poste, un bénéficiaire à l'obtention (ou non) d'une aide sociale. |

      Cette mécanique simple est au cœur de tous les systèmes, des réseaux sociaux aux plateformes de services publics, avec pour enjeu principal de classer, trier et faire correspondre.

      3. La Modification des Rapports de Force Sociétaux

      3.1. Le Calcul comme Machine à Discriminer : l'Exemple de Parcoursup

      Hubert Guillaud utilise l'exemple de Parcoursup pour illustrer comment le calcul génère une discrimination systémique.

      Contexte : Une plateforme nationale orientant 900 000 élèves de terminale vers plus de 25 000 formations.

      Mécanisme : Chaque formation doit classer tous ses candidats du premier au dernier, sans aucun ex-æquo.

      Le critère principal : les notes. Le système se base quasi exclusivement sur les bulletins scolaires, ignorant des critères essentiels comme la motivation, qui est pourtant un facteur clé de la réussite dans le supérieur.

      La création de distinctions aberrantes : Pour départager la masse d'élèves aux dossiers homogènes (par exemple, avec une moyenne de 14/20), le système génère des calculs complexes pour créer des micro-différences.

      Les scores finaux sont calculés à trois chiffres après la virgule (ex: 14,001 contre 14,003). Guillaud souligne l'absurdité de cette distinction :

      "Je ne peux pas faire de différence académique même entre eux. [...] Mais en fait pour le calcul par le calcul on va générer en fait des différences entre ces élèves."

      Équivalence au tirage au sort : Pour 80 % des candidats, ce système d'attribution basé sur des différences insignifiantes est "pleinement équivalent au tirage au sort", mais il est camouflé par l'apparence scientifique des chiffres.

      3.2. La Normalisation d'une Sélection Élitaire

      Contrairement à un simple tirage au sort, Parcoursup n'introduit pas d'aléa.

      Au contraire, il diffuse et normalise les méthodes de sélection des formations d'élite (grandes écoles, Sciences Po) à l'ensemble du système éducatif, y compris à des formations techniques (BTS) où ce type de sélection est inadapté.

      Cette standardisation interdit les méthodes d'évaluation alternatives (entretiens, projets) et renforce les biais sociaux.

      Le résultat est un taux d'insatisfaction élevé :

      2 % des candidats ne reçoivent aucune proposition.

      20 % reçoivent une seule proposition qu'ils refusent.

      20 % retentent leur chance l'année suivante.

      Au total, environ 45-46 % des élèves sont insatisfaits chaque année par la plateforme.

      4. L'Automatisation de la Vie et la Neutralité Illusoire de la Technologie

      4.1. Le "Score de Risque" de la CAF : Surveillance des Plus Précaires

      Hubert Guillaud réfute l'idée que la technologie est neutre. L'exemple de la Caisse d'Allocations Familiales (CAF) est emblématique de cette non-neutralité.

      Objectif affiché : Détecter le risque de fraude chez les allocataires grâce à l'IA.

      Réalité : Le système ne mesure pas la fraude (souvent liée aux déclarations des employeurs) mais ce que l'on nomme "l'indu", c'est-à-dire le trop-perçu d'un mois qui doit être remboursé le suivant.

      Ciblage : Ce système pénalise les personnes aux situations complexes et aux revenus non-linéaires : mères isolées, veuves, travailleurs précaires.

      Le calcul de leurs droits est difficile, générant mécaniquement des "indus".

      Critères de calcul absurdes : Des données comportementales sont utilisées.

      Par exemple, se connecter à son espace CAF plus d'un certain nombre de fois par mois augmente le score de risque, alors que ce comportement reflète simplement l'anxiété de personnes en situation de besoin.

      Conséquences : Des populations déjà précaires, représentant moins de 20 % des bénéficiaires, subissent la majorité des contrôles.

      Certaines mères isolées sont contrôlées "quatre à cinq fois dans la même année".

      4.2. Menace sur la Séparation des Pouvoirs

      L'interconnexion des données entre les administrations, sous couvert de "fluidifier l'information", constitue une menace pour le principe démocratique de la séparation des pouvoirs.

      • La CAF a accès aux données des impôts, de France Travail, et aux fichiers des comptes bancaires (FICOBA).

      • Le niveau d'accès est opaque : certains agents peuvent voir les soldes, voire le détail des dépenses sur six mois.

      • Cette collusion crée des formes de surveillance étendues et problématiques.

      Exemple : la police qui dénoncerait des individus à la CAF (environ 3000 cas par an), instaurant un "échange de bons procédés" en dehors de tout cadre légal clair.

      • Cela crée ce qu'un sociologue nomme un "lumpen scorariat" : des individus constamment mal évalués et pénalisés par le croisement des systèmes.

      4.3. Le Risque d'une Dérive Fasciste

      La discussion met en avant une phrase choc tirée du livre de Guillaud : "Déni de démocratie un principe, la discrimination une fonctionnalité, le fascisme une possibilité."

      Le risque fasciste réside dans le fait que ces systèmes permettent de mettre en place des discriminations massives, objectives en apparence, mais basées sur des choix politiques et des biais invisibles.

      Exemple du recrutement : Les logiciels de tri de CV analysent les mots pour produire des scores.

      Ils préfèrent des profils "moyens partout" plutôt que des profils avec des failles et des points forts.

      Discrimination géographique et ethnique :

      Ces systèmes permettent très facilement aux employeurs d'exclure des candidats sur la base de critères non-dits, comme leur localisation géographique (via l'adresse IP) ou leur origine (via des termes associés à certains pays).

      5. Implications Psychosociales : La Massification Déguisée en Personnalisation

      L'idée que les algorithmes nous offrent une expérience "personnalisée" (les "bulles de filtre") est un leurre. En réalité, ils opèrent une massification.

      Logique publicitaire : L'objectif n'est pas de comprendre un individu, mais de le faire rentrer dans des catégories préexistantes pour lui vendre de la publicité de masse.

      Exemple concret : Si un utilisateur "like" une publication critiquant le football où le mot "PSG" apparaît, l'algorithme ne retient que le mot-clé "PSG".

      L'utilisateur est alors associé à la masse de tous les autres profils liés au "PSG" et recevra de la publicité ciblée pour les fans de football, même si son intention initiale était opposée.

      • L'individu est ainsi constamment regroupé "d'une masse à l'autre", pris dans des profils de données qui le dépassent.

      6. Conclusion : Mise en Perspective des Menaces Technologiques

      Interrogé sur une citation du journal Le Postillon affirmant que le "grand refroidissement technologique" est la plus grande menace de notre époque, Hubert Guillaud exprime son désaccord.

      • Il considère que cette vision est trop "techno-centrée".

      • Selon lui, des enjeux plus fondamentaux et urgents priment :

      1. Le réchauffement climatique.    2. La concentration financière et les logiques du capitalisme.

      • La technologie et ses dérives ne sont pas la cause première des problèmes sociaux (isolement, repli sur soi), mais plutôt un amplificateur des dynamiques déjà à l'œuvre, comme la "dissolution des rapports engendrés par le capitalisme".

      • Il conclut en affirmant qu'il faut "savoir raison garder".

      L'enjeu n'est pas seulement de réformer un système comme Parcoursup, mais de s'attaquer au problème de fond : "comment est-ce qu'on crée des places dans l'enseignement supérieur public".

      La technologie n'est pas une fatalité, mais un prisme à travers lequel des forces sociales, politiques et économiques plus vastes s'expriment.

    1. Note: This response was posted by the corresponding author to Review Commons. The content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Reply to the reviewers

      Reviewer #1 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      *The authors have a longstanding focus and reputation on single cell sequencing technology development and application. In this current study, the authors developed a novel single-cell multi-omic assay termed "T-ChIC" so that to jointly profile the histone modifications along with the full-length transcriptome from the same single cells, analyzed the dynamic relationship between chromatin state and gene expression during zebrafish development and cell fate determination. In general, the assay works well, the data look convincing and conclusions are beneficial to the community. *

      Thank you for your positive feedback.

      *There are several single-cell methodologies all claim to co-profile chromatin modifications and gene expression from the same individual cell, such as CoTECH, Paired-tag and others. Although T-ChIC employs pA-Mnase and IVT to obtain these modalities from single cells which are different, could the author provide some direct comparisons among all these technologies to see whether T-ChIC outperforms? *

      In a separate technical manuscript describing the application of T-ChIC in mouse cells (Zeller, Blotenburg et al 2024, bioRxiv, 2024.05. 09.593364), we have provided a direct comparison of data quality between T-ChIC and other single-cell methods for chromatin-RNA co-profiling (Please refer to Fig. 1C,D and Fig. S1D, E, of the preprint). We show that compared to other methods, T-ChIC is able to better preserve the expected biological relationship between the histone modifications and gene expression in single cells.

      *In current study, T-ChIC profiled H3K27me3 and H3K4me1 modifications, these data look great. How about other histone modifications (eg H3K9me3 and H3K36me3) and transcription factors? *

      While we haven't profiled these other modifications using T-ChIC in Zebrafish, we have previously published high quality data on these histone modifications using the sortChIC method, on which T-ChIC is based (Zeller, Yeung et al 2023). In our comparison, we find that histone modification profiles between T-ChIC and sortChIC are very similar (Fig. S1C in Zeller, Blotenburg et al 2024). Therefore the method is expected to work as well for the other histone marks.

      *T-ChIC can detect full length transcription from the same single cells, but in FigS3, the authors still used other published single cell transcriptomics to annotate the cell types, this seems unnecessary? *

      We used the published scRNA-seq dataset with a larger number of cells to homogenize our cell type labels with these datasets, but we also cross-referenced our cluster-specific marker genes with ZFIN and homogenized the cell type labels with ZFIN ontology. This way our annotation is in line with previous datasets but not biased by it. Due the relatively smaller size of our data, we didn't expect to identify unique, rare cell types, but our full-length total RNA assay helps us identify non-coding RNAs such as miRNA previously undetected in scRNA assays, which we have now highlighted in new figure S1c .

      *Throughout the manuscript, the authors found some interesting dynamics between chromatin state and gene expression during embryogenesis, independent approaches should be used to validate these findings, such as IHC staining or RNA ISH? *

      We appreciate that the ISH staining could be useful to validate the expression pattern of genes identified in this study. But to validate the relationships between the histone marks and gene expression, we need to combine these stainings with functional genomics experiments, such as PRC2-related knockouts. Due to their complexity, such experiments are beyond the scope of this manuscript (see also reply to reviewer #3, comment #4 for details).

      *In Fig2 and FigS4, the authors showed H3K27me3 cis spreading during development, this looks really interesting. Is this zebrafish specific? H3K27me3 ChIP-seq or CutTag data from mouse and/or human embryos should be reanalyzed and used to compare. The authors could speculate some possible mechanisms to explain this spreading pattern? *

      Thanks for the suggestion. In this revision, we have reanalysed a dataset of mouse ChIP-seq of H3K27me3 during mouse embryonic development by Xiang et al (Nature Genetics 2019) and find similar evidence of spreading of H3K27me3 signal from their pre-marked promoter regions at E5.5 epiblast upon differentiation (new Figure S4i). This observation, combined with the fact that the mechanism of pre-marking of promoters by PRC1-PRC2 interaction seems to be conserved between the two species (see (Hickey et al., 2022), (Mei et al., 2021) & (Chen et al., 2021)), suggests that the dynamics of H3K27me3 pattern establishment is conserved across vertebrates. But we think a high-resolution profiling via a method like T-ChIC would be more useful to demonstrate the dynamics of signal spreading during mouse embryonic development in the future. We have discussed this further in our revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #1 (Significance (Required)):

      *The authors have a longstanding focus and reputation on single cell sequencing technology development and application. In this current study, the authors developed a novel single-cell multi-omic assay termed "T-ChIC" so that to jointly profile the histone modifications along with the full-length transcriptome from the same single cells, analyzed the dynamic relationship between chromatin state and gene expression during zebrafish development and cell fate determination. In general, the assay works well, the data look convincing and conclusions are beneficial to the community. *

      Thank you very much for your supportive remarks.

      Reviewer #2 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      *Joint analysis of multiple modalities in single cells will provide a comprehensive view of cell fate states. In this manuscript, Bhardwaj et al developed a single-cell multi-omics assay, T-ChIC, to simultaneously capture histone modifications and full-length transcriptome and applied the method on early embryos of zebrafish. The authors observed a decoupled relationship between the chromatin modifications and gene expression at early developmental stages. The correlation becomes stronger as development proceeds, as genes are silenced by the cis-spreading of the repressive marker H3k27me3. Overall, the work is well performed, and the results are meaningful and interesting to readers in the epigenomic and embryonic development fields. There are some concerns before the manuscript is considered for publication. *

      We thank the reviewer for appreciating the quality of our study.

      *Major concerns: *

        • A major point of this study is to understand embryo development, especially gastrulation, with the power of scMulti-Omics assay. However, the current analysis didn't focus on deciphering the biology of gastrulation, i.e., lineage-specific pioneer factors that help to reform the chromatin landscape. The majority of the data analysis is based on the temporal dimension, but not the cell-type-specific dimension, which reduces the value of the single-cell assay. *

      We focused on the lineage-specific transcription factor activity during gastrulation in Figure 4 and S8 of the manuscript and discovered several interesting regulators active at this stage. During our analysis of the temporal dimension for the rest of the manuscript, we also classified the cells by their germ layer and "latent" developmental time by taking the full advantage of the single-cell nature of our data. Additionally, we have now added the cell-type-specific H3K27-demethylation results for 24hpf in response to your comment below. We hope that these results, together with our openly available dataset would demonstrate the advantage of the single-cell aspect of our dataset.

      1. *The cis-spreading of H3K27me3 with developmental time is interesting. Considering H3k27me3 could mark bivalent regions, especially in pluripotent cells, there must be some regions that have lost H3k27me3 signals during development. Therefore, it's confusing that the authors didn't find these regions (30% spreading, 70% stable). The authors should explain and discuss this issue. *

      Indeed we see that ~30% of the bins enriched in the pluripotent stage spread, while 70% do not seem to spread. In line with earlier observations(Hickey et al., 2022; Vastenhouw et al., 2010), we find that H3K27me3 is almost absent in the zygote and is still being accumulated until 24hpf and beyond. Therefore the majority of the sites in the genome still seem to be in the process of gaining H3K27me3 until 24hpf, explaining why we see mostly "spreading" and "stable" states. Considering most of these sites are at promoters and show signs of bivalency, we think that these sites are marked for activation or silencing at later stages. We have discussed this in the manuscript ("discussion"). However, in response to this and earlier comment, we went back and searched for genes that show H3K27-demethylation in the most mature cell types (at 24 hpf) in our data, and found a subset of genes that show K27 demethylation after acquiring them earlier. Interestingly, most of the top genes in this list are well-known as developmentally important for their corresponding cell types. We have added this new result and discussed it further in the manuscript (Fig. 2d,e, , Supplementary table 3).

      *Minors: *

        • The authors cited two scMulti-omics studies in the introduction, but there have been lots of single-cell multi-omics studies published recently. The authors should cite and consider them. *

      We have cited more single-cell chromatin and multiome studies focussed on early embryogenesis in the introduction now.

      *2. T-ChIC seems to have been presented in a previous paper (ref 15). Therefore, Fig. 1a is unnecessary to show. *

      Figure 1a. shows a summary of our Zebrafish TChIC workflow, which contains the unique sample multiplexing and sorting strategy to reduce batch effects, which was not applied in the original TChIC workflow. We have now clarified this in "Results".

      1. *It's better to show the percentage of cell numbers (30% vs 70%) for each heatmap in Figure 2C. *

      We have added the numbers to the corresponding legends.

      1. *Please double-check the citation of Fig. S4C, which may not relate to the conclusion of signal differences between lineages. *

      The citation seems to be correct (Fig. S4C supplements Fig. 2C, but shows mesodermal lineage cells) but the description of the legend was a bit misleading. We have clarified this now.

      *5. Figure 4C has not been cited or mentioned in the main text. Please check. *

      Thanks for pointing it out. We have cited it in Results now.

      Reviewer #2 (Significance (Required)):

      *Strengths: This work utilized a new single-cell multi-omics method and generated abundant epigenomics and transcriptomics datasets for cells covering multiple key developmental stages of zebrafish. *

      *Limitations: The data analysis was superficial and mainly focused on the correspondence between the two modalities. The discussion of developmental biology was limited. *

      *Advance: The zebrafish single-cell datasets are valuable. The T-ChIC method is new and interesting. *

      *The audience will be specialized and from basic research fields, such as developmental biology, epigenomics, bioinformatics, etc. *

      *I'm more specialized in the direction of single-cell epigenomics, gene regulation, 3D genomics, etc. *

      Thank you for your remarks.

      Reviewer #3 (Evidence, reproducibility and clarity (Required)):

      *This manuscript introduces T‑ChIC, a single‑cell multi‑omics workflow that jointly profiles full‑length transcripts and histone modifications (H3K27me3 and H3K4me1) and applies it to early zebrafish embryos (4-24 hpf). The study convincingly demonstrates that chromatin-transcription coupling strengthens during gastrulation and somitogenesis, that promoter‑anchored H3K27me3 spreads in cis to enforce developmental gene silencing, and that integrating TF chromatin status with expression can predict lineage‑specific activators and repressors. *

      *Major concerns *

      1. *Independent biological replicates are absent, so the authors should process at least one additional clutch of embryos for key stages (e.g., 6 hpf and 12 hpf) with T‑ChIC and demonstrate that the resulting data match the current dataset. *

      Thanks for pointing this out. We had, in fact, performed T-ChIC experiments in four rounds of biological replicates (independent clutch of embryos) and merged the data to create our resource. Although not all timepoints were profiled in each replicate, two timepoints (10 and 24hpf) are present in all four, and the celltype composition of these replicates from these 2 timepoints are very similar. We have added new plots in figure S2f and added (new) supplementary table (#1) to highlight the presence of biological replicates.

      2. *The TF‑activity regression model uses an arbitrary R² {greater than or equal to} 0.6 threshold; cross‑validated R² distributions, permutation‑based FDR control, and effect‑size confidence intervals are needed to justify this cut‑off. *

      Thank you for this suggestion. We did use 10-fold cross validation during training and obtained the R2 values of TF motifs from the independent test set as an unbiased estimate. However, the cutoff of R2 > 0.6 to select the TFs for classification was indeed arbitrary. In the revised version, we now report the FDR-adjusted p-values for these R2 estimates based on permutation tests, and select TFs with a cutoff of padj supplementary table #4 to include the p-values for all tested TFs. However, we see that our arbitrary cutoff of 0.6 was in fact, too stringent, and we can classify many more TFs based on the FDR cutoffs. We also updated our reported numbers in Fig. 4c to reflect this. Moreover, supplementary table #4 contains the complete list of TFs used in the analysis to allow others to choose their own cutoff.

      3. *Predicted TF functions lack empirical support, making it essential to test representative activators (e.g., Tbx16) and repressors (e.g., Zbtb16a) via CRISPRi or morpholino knock‑down and to measure target‑gene expression and H3K4me1 changes. *

      We agree that independent validation of the functions of our predicted TFs on target gene activity would be important. During this revision, we analysed recently published scRNA-seq data of Saunders et al. (2023) (Saunders et al., 2023), which includes CRISPR-mediated F0 knockouts of a couple of our predicted TFs, but the scRNAseq was performed at later stages (24hpf onward) compared to our H3K4me1 analysis (which was 4-12 hpf). Therefore, we saw off-target genes being affected in lineages where these TFs are clearly not expressed (attached Fig 1). We therefore didn't include these results in the manuscript. In future, we aim to systematically test the TFs predicted in our study with CRISPRi or similar experiments.

      4. *The study does not prove that H3K27me3 spreading causes silencing; embryos treated with an Ezh2 inhibitor or prc2 mutants should be re‑profiled by T‑ChIC to show loss of spreading along with gene re‑expression. *

      We appreciate the suggestion that indeed PRC2-disruption followed by T-ChIC or other forms of validation would be needed to confirm whether the H3K27me3 spreading is indeed causally linked to the silencing of the identified target genes. But performing this validation is complicated because of multiple reasons: 1) due to the EZH2 contribution from maternal RNA and the contradicting effects of various EZH2 zygotic mutations (depending on where the mutation occurs), the only properly validated PRC2-related mutant seems to be the maternal-zygotic mutant MZezh2, which requires germ cell transplantation (see Rougeot et al. 2019 (Rougeot et al., 2019)) , and San et al. 2019 (San et al., 2019) for details). The use of inhibitors have been described in other studies (den Broeder et al., 2020; Huang et al., 2021), but they do not show a validation of the H3K27me3 loss or a similar phenotype as the MZezh2 mutants, and can present unwanted side effects and toxicity at a high dose, affecting gene expression results. Moreover, in an attempt to validate, we performed our own trials with the EZH2 inhibitor (GSK123) and saw that this time window might be too short to see the effect within 24hpf (attached Fig. 2). Therefore, this validation is a more complex endeavor beyond the scope of this study. Nevertheless, our further analysis of H3K27me3 de-methylation on developmentally important genes (new Fig. 2e-f, Sup. table 3) adds more confidence that the polycomb repression plays an important role, and provides enough ground for future follow up studies.

      *Minor concerns *

      1. *Repressive chromatin coverage is limited, so profiling an additional silencing mark such as H3K9me3 or DNA methylation would clarify cooperation with H3K27me3 during development. *

      We agree that H3K27me3 alone would not be sufficient to fully understand the repressive chromatin state. Extension to other chromatin marks and DNA methylation would be the focus of our follow up works.

      *2. Computational transparency is incomplete; a supplementary table listing all trimming, mapping, and peak‑calling parameters (cutadapt, STAR/hisat2, MACS2, histoneHMM, etc.) should be provided. *

      As mentioned in the manuscript, we provide an open-source pre-processing pipeline "scChICflow" to perform all these steps (github.com/bhardwaj-lab/scChICflow). We have now also provided the configuration files on our zenodo repository (see below), which can simply be plugged into this pipeline together with the fastq files from GEO to obtain the processed dataset that we describe in the manuscript. Additionally, we have also clarified the peak calling and post-processing steps in the manuscript now.

      *3. Data‑ and code‑availability statements lack detail; the exact GEO accession release date, loom‑file contents, and a DOI‑tagged Zenodo archive of analysis scripts should be added. *

      We have now publicly released the .h5ad files with raw counts, normalized counts, and complete gene and cell-level metadata, along with signal tracks (bigwigs) and peaks on GEO. Additionally, we now also released the source datasets and notebooks (.Rmarkdown format) on Zenodo that can be used to replicate the figures in the manuscript, and updated our statements on "Data and code availability".

      *4. Minor editorial issues remain, such as replacing "critical" with "crucial" in the Abstract, adding software version numbers to figure legends, and correcting the SAMtools reference. *

      Thank you for spotting them. We have fixed these issues.

      Reviewer #3 (Significance (Required)):

      The method is technically innovative and the biological insights are valuable; however, several issues-mainly concerning experimental design, statistical rigor, and functional validation-must be addressed to solidify the conclusions.

      Thank you for your comments. We hope to have addressed your concerns in this revised version of our manuscript.

    2. Note: This preprint has been reviewed by subject experts for Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Referee #3

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      This manuscript introduces T‑ChIC, a single‑cell multi‑omics workflow that jointly profiles full‑length transcripts and histone modifications (H3K27me3 and H3K4me1) and applies it to early zebrafish embryos (4-24 hpf). The study convincingly demonstrates that chromatin-transcription coupling strengthens during gastrulation and somitogenesis, that promoter‑anchored H3K27me3 spreads in cis to enforce developmental gene silencing, and that integrating TF chromatin status with expression can predict lineage‑specific activators and repressors.

      Major concerns

      1. Independent biological replicates are absent, so the authors should process at least one additional clutch of embryos for key stages (e.g., 6 hpf and 12 hpf) with T‑ChIC and demonstrate that the resulting data match the current dataset.
      2. The TF‑activity regression model uses an arbitrary R² {greater than or equal to} 0.6 threshold; cross‑validated R² distributions, permutation‑based FDR control, and effect‑size confidence intervals are needed to justify this cut‑off.
      3. Predicted TF functions lack empirical support, making it essential to test representative activators (e.g., Tbx16) and repressors (e.g., Zbtb16a) via CRISPRi or morpholino knock‑down and to measure target‑gene expression and H3K4me1 changes.
      4. The study does not prove that H3K27me3 spreading causes silencing; embryos treated with an Ezh2 inhibitor or prc2 mutants should be re‑profiled by T‑ChIC to show loss of spreading along with gene re‑expression.

      Minor concerns

      1. Repressive chromatin coverage is limited, so profiling an additional silencing mark such as H3K9me3 or DNA methylation would clarify cooperation with H3K27me3 during development.
      2. Computational transparency is incomplete; a supplementary table listing all trimming, mapping, and peak‑calling parameters (cutadapt, STAR/hisat2, MACS2, histoneHMM, etc.) should be provided.
      3. Data‑ and code‑availability statements lack detail; the exact GEO accession release date, loom‑file contents, and a DOI‑tagged Zenodo archive of analysis scripts should be added.
      4. Minor editorial issues remain, such as replacing "critical" with "crucial" in the Abstract, adding software version numbers to figure legends, and correcting the SAMtools reference.

      Significance

      The method is technically innovative and the biological insights are valuable; however, several issues-mainly concerning experimental design, statistical rigor, and functional validation-must be addressed to solidify the conclusions.

    3. Note: This preprint has been reviewed by subject experts for Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Referee #2

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      Joint analysis of multiple modalities in single cells will provide a comprehensive view of cell fate states. In this manuscript, Bhardwaj et al developed a single-cell multi-omics assay, T-ChIC, to simultaneously capture histone modifications and full-length transcriptome and applied the method on early embryos of zebrafish. The authors observed a decoupled relationship between the chromatin modifications and gene expression at early developmental stages. The correlation becomes stronger as development proceeds, as genes are silenced by the cis-spreading of the repressive marker H3k27me3. Overall, the work is well performed, and the results are meaningful and interesting to readers in the epigenomic and embryonic development fields. There are some concerns before the manuscript is considered for publication.

      Major concerns:

      1. A major point of this study is to understand embryo development, especially gastrulation, with the power of scMulti-Omics assay. However, the current analysis didn't focus on deciphering the biology of gastrulation, i.e., lineage-specific pioneer factors that help to reform the chromatin landscape. The majority of the data analysis is based on the temporal dimension, but not the cell-type-specific dimension, which reduces the value of the single-cell assay.
      2. The cis-spreading of H3K27me3 with developmental time is interesting. Considering H3k27me3 could mark bivalent regions, especially in pluripotent cells, there must be some regions that have lost H3k27me3 signals during development. Therefore, it's confusing that the authors didn't find these regions (30% spreading, 70% stable). The authors should explain and discuss this issue.

      Minors:

      1. The authors cited two scMulti-omics studies in the introduction, but there have been lots of single-cell multi-omics studies published recently. The authors should cite and consider them.
      2. T-ChIC seems to have been presented in a previous paper (ref 15). Therefore, Fig. 1a is unnecessary to show.
      3. It's better to show the percentage of cell numbers (30% vs 70%) for each heatmap in Figure 2C.
      4. Please double-check the citation of Fig. S4C, which may not relate to the conclusion of signal differences between lineages.
      5. Figure 4C has not been cited or mentioned in the main text. Please check.

      Significance

      Strengths: This work utilized a new single-cell multi-omics method and generated abundant epigenomics and transcriptomics datasets for cells covering multiple key developmental stages of zebrafish. Limitations: The data analysis was superficial and mainly focused on the correspondence between the two modalities. The discussion of developmental biology was limited.

      Advance: The zebrafish single-cell datasets are valuable. The T-ChIC method is new and interesting.

      The audience will be specialized and from basic research fields, such as developmental biology, epigenomics, bioinformatics, etc.

      I'm more specialized in the direction of single-cell epigenomics, gene regulation, 3D genomics, etc.

    1. Is Fast Charging Killing the Battery? A 2-Year Test on 40 Phones
      • Experiment Methodology: Researchers tested 40 phones over two years, completing 500 charge-discharge cycles using custom automation tools to compare the effects of different charging habits [00:01:11].
      • Fast Charging vs. Slow Charging: The study found that fast charging does not significantly harm battery health. After 500 cycles, the fast-charging iPhone group lost only 0.5% more capacity than the slow-charging group, while fast-charging Android phones actually showed slightly less wear than the slow-charging group [00:03:03].
      • The 30-80% Charging Habit: Maintaining a battery level between 30% and 80% reduced wear by 2.5% to 4% compared to full 0-100% cycles. While technically better, the researchers suggested the real-world benefit is limited compared to the effort [00:03:27].
      • Long-term Stability: Storing phones at 100% charge for a week showed no measurable change in capacity, reinforcing that battery degradation is a gradual, long-term process [00:04:13].
      • Battery Replacement Guidelines: Battery life begins to noticeably shorten when health drops to 85%, and the researchers recommend replacement when health reaches 80% to maintain a good user experience [00:05:01].
      • Performance & Throttling: Battery wear does not inherently slow down the phone's peak performance, but degraded batteries cause the system to throttle (slow down) earlier at low charge levels (e.g., at 11% instead of 5%) to prevent power failure [00:05:38].
      • Conclusion: The technical differences in battery wear from various charging methods are minimal. The best approach is to charge your phone conveniently and avoid trading "mental energy" for negligible battery gains [00:04:20].
    1. community-identified providercompetencies.

      Summary: Community-identified provider competencies include 1) being comfortable working with LGBTQI patients ("be" rather than "seem" = intentionality), 2) shared medical-decision-making (know patient's preferences), 3) avoid assumptions (provide the correct BEST care), 4) apply knowledge (know how to provide specific individualized care), 5) acknowledge and address social marginalization (destigmatize and humanize).

    1. Was ist das wichtigste Merkmal des Lebens in dieser Stadt? 5.  Ein Überblick über die Geschichte des Alten Testaments Um die Bibel besser zu verstehen, ist es häufig hilfreich, etwas über die ursprüngliche historische Situation des behandelten Bibeltextes bzw. biblischen Buches zu wissen. Es ist allerdings noch wichtiger, die Hauptbegebenheiten der Bibel zueinander in Bezug setzen zu können – also die Reihenfolge von Ereignissen und die Einordnung wichtiger Personen in die Hauptstruktur zu kennen. In Einheit 1 wurde die Botschaft der gesamten Bibel von 1. Mose bis zur Offenbarung kurz zusammengefasst und wichtige Ereignisse wurden hervorgehoben. Zum Abschluss dieser Einheit werden einige dieser Ereignisse nun erneut graphisch dargestellt werden mitsamt einigen Jahreszahlen und den Namen wichtiger Personen. Im weiteren Verlauf des Kurses kann es hilfreich sein, immer wieder zu dieser Übersicht zurückzukommen und weitere Details hinzuzufügen. Die Geschichte des Alten Testaments Die Abbildung wurde mit wenigen Änderungen Graeme Goldworthys The Goldsworthy Trilogy (Cumbria: Paternoster Press, 2000, S. 36) entnommen und mit freundlicher Genehmigung wiedergegeben. Weitere Einzelheiten zur biblischen Geschichte können in einem Bibellexikon oder einer entsprechenden Abhandlung alttestamentlicher Geschichte nachgeschlagen werden. Die Daten zu Abraham und Mose sind abhängig von der Datierung des Exodus. Die archäologische Beweislage zum Exodus ist leider nicht eindeutig. Die Mehrheit der Forscher datiert den Exodus heute bevorzugt im 13. Jahrhundert (ca. 1280 bis 1240 v. Chr.), aber die chronologischen Angaben innerhalb des Alten Testaments legen eine Datierung im 15. Jahrhundert nahe (ca. 1450 v. Chr.; vgl. 1. Könige 6,1; Richter 11,26; 2. Mose 12,40). Aufgrund der Mehrdeutigkeit des archäologischen Materials erscheint es weiser, den expliziten Angaben des biblischen Textes Glauben zu schenken und die frühere Datierung („Lange Chronologie“ in der folgenden Tabelle) als korrekt anzunehmen. Wichtige Jahreszahlen (Es gibt zwei mögliche Datierungen für diesen frühen Zeitraum.)1 Lange Chronologie Kurze Chronologie Abraham ca. 2165–1990 v. Chr. ca. 2000–1825 v. Chr. Isaak ca. 2065–1885 v. Chr. ca. 1900–1720 v. Chr. Jakob ca. 2000–1860 v. Chr. ca. 1840–1700 v. Chr. Josef ca. 1910–1800 v. Chr. ca. 1750–1640 v. Chr. Ankunft in Ägypten ca. 1875 ca. 1700 Auszug aus Ägypten ca. 1450 ca. 1260 Zeit der Richter ca. 1380–1050 v. Chr. ca. 1200–1050 v. Chr. Zeitstrahl Manchmal fällt es schwer, verschiedene geschichtliche Ereignisse in Relation zueinander zu setzen. Ein Zeitstrahl kann dabei helfen, einen besseren Überblick zu gewinnen. Betrachten Sie den unten stehenden Zeitstrahl und die oben stehende Tabelle zusammen und gewinnen Sie ein Eindruck davon, mit welch großer Zeitspanne wir uns befassen. Zeitstrahl – menschliche Perspektive auf die Geschichte Übungen Was hat die Sintflut erreicht, wenn sich die Situation der Menschheit nach Noah so schnell wieder abwärts bewegt? Welche Absicht war damit verknüpft? Nehmen Sie sich die Zeit, Jesaja 65,17–25 sorgfältig zu lesen. Versuchen Sie in eigenen Worten auszudrücken, was mit der Bildsprache gemeint ist. Welche Botschaft versucht der Prophet, zu vermitteln? Weiterführende Lektüre: Schlagen Sie „Adam“, „Eva“ und „Sündenfall“ im Bibellexikon nach. Reflexion Wie viele der Probleme in unserer Welt können mit den Begebenheiten in 1. Mose 3–11 in Verbindung gebracht werden? Wir haben in dieser Einheit viel darüber nachgedacht, was in der Welt im Argen liegt. Welche Hoffnungen wurden dabei zugleich in Ihnen geweckt? 1 Vgl. Artikel „Archaeological sites: Late Bronze Age” und „Time Charts: Biblical History from Abraham to Saul” in New Bible Atlas, Leicester: IVP 1985. Als erledigt kennzeichnen ◄ 2. Auslegung der Bibel Direkt zu: Direkt zu: Bitte lesen... Ankündigungen Gruppeninterne Videokonferenz Gruppeninternes Forum Offenes Forum 1. Das Buch der Bücher 2. Auslegung der Bibel 4. Israel und Gottes Heilsplan 5. Das verheißene Land und Gottes Heilsplan 6. Davids Königreich und Gottes Heilsplan 7. Die Erneuerung von Gottes Heilsplan 8. Jesus: die Erfüllung von Gottes Heilsplan 9. Die Gute Nachricht für alle Völker 10. Warten auf die Vollendung – die Schriften der Apostel Quiz: 1. Das Buch der Bücher Quiz: 2. Auslegung der Bibel <input type="submit" class="btn btn-secondary ml-1" value="Start"> 4. 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      Gott der Herr selbt wird gegenwärtig sein und alles mit seiner herrlichen Gegenwart erfüllen.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors propose a new version of idTracker.ai for animal tracking. Specifically, they apply contrastive learning to embed cropped images of animals into a feature space where clusters correspond to individual animal identities. By doing this, they address the requirement for so-called global fragments - segments of the video, in which all entities are visible/detected at the same time. In general, the new method reduces the long tracking times from the previous versions, while also increasing the average accuracy of assigning the identity labels.

      Strengths and weaknesses:

      The authors have reorganized and rewritten a substantial portion of their manuscript, which has improved the overall clarity and structure to some extent. In particular, omitting the different protocols enhanced readability. However, all technical details are now in appendix which is now referred to more frequently in the manuscript, which was already the case in the initial submission. These frequent references to the appendix - and even to appendices from previous versions - make it difficult to read and fully understand the method and the evaluations in detail. A more self-contained description of the method within the main text would be highly appreciated.

      Furthermore, the authors state that they changed their evaluation metric from accuracy to IDF1. However, throughout the manuscript they continue to refer to "accuracy" when evaluating and comparing results. It is unclear which accuracy metric was used or whether the authors are confusing the two metrics. This point needs clarification, as IDF1 is not an "accuracy" measure but rather an F1-score over identity assignments.

      The authors compare the speedups of the new version with those of the previous ones by taking the average. However, it appears that there are striking outliers in the tracking performance data (see Supplementary Table 1-4). Therefore, using the average may not be the most appropriate way to compare. The authors should consider using the median or providing more detailed statistics (e.g., boxplots) to better illustrate the distributions.

      The authors did not provide any conclusion or discussion section. Including a concise conclusion that summarizes the main findings and their implications would help to convey the message of the manuscript.

      The authors report an improvement in the mean accuracy across all benchmarks from 99.49% to 99.82% (with crossings). While this represents a slight improvement, the datasets used for benchmarking seem relatively simple and already largely "solved". Therefore, the impact of this work on the field may be limited. It would be more informative to evaluate the method on more challenging datasets that include frequent occlusions, crossings, or animals with similar appearances. The accuracy reported in the main text is "without crossings" - this seems like incomplete evaluation, especially that tracking objects that do not cross seems a straightforward task. Information is missing why crossings are a problem and are dealt with separately. There are several videos with a much lower tracking accuracy, explaining what the challenges of these videos are and why the method fails in such cases would help to understand the method's usability and weak points.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary

      This is a strong paper that presents a clear advance in multi-animal tracking. The authors introduce an updated version of idtracker.ai that reframes identity assignment as a contrastive learning problem rather than a classification task requiring global fragments. This change leads to gains in speed and accuracy. The method eliminates a known bottleneck in the original system, and the benchmarking across species is comprehensive and well executed. I think the results are convincing and the work is significant.

      Strengths

      The main strengths are the conceptual shift from classification to representation learning, the clear performance gains, and the fact that the new version is more robust. Removing the need for global fragments makes the software more flexible in practice, and the accuracy and speed improvements are well demonstrated. The software appears thoughtfully implemented, with GUI updates and integration with pose estimators.

      Weaknesses

      I don't have any major criticisms, but I have identified a few points that should be addressed to improve the clarity and accuracy of the claims made in the paper.

      (1) The title begins with "New idtracker.ai," which may not age well and sounds more promotional than scientific. The strength of the work is the conceptual shift to contrastive representation learning, and it might be more helpful to emphasize that in the title rather than branding it as "new."

      We considered using “Contrastive idtracker.ai”. However, we thought that readers could then think that we believe they could use both the old idtracker.ai or this contrastive version. But we want to say that the new version is the one to use as it is better in both accuracy and tracking times. We think “New idtracker.ai” communicates better that this version is the version we recommend.

      (2) Several technical points regarding the comparison between TRex (a system evaluated in the paper) and idtracker.ai should be addressed to ensure the evaluation is fair and readers are fully informed.

      (2.1) Lines 158-160: The description of TRex as based on "Protocol 2 of idtracker.ai" overlooks several key additions in TRex, such as posture image normalization, tracklet subsampling, and the use of uniqueness feedback during training. These features are not acknowledged, and it's unclear whether TRex was properly configured - particularly regarding posture estimation, which appears to have been omitted but isn't discussed. Without knowing the actual parameters used to make comparisons, it's difficult to dassess how the method was evaluated.

      We added the information about the key additions of TRex in the section “The new idtracker.ai uses representation learning”, lines 153-157. Posture estimation in TRex was not explicitly used but neither disabled during the benchmark; we clarified this in the last paragraph of “Benchmark of accuracy and tracking time”, lines 492-495.

      (2.2) Lines 162-163: The paper implies that TRex gains speed by avoiding Protocol 3, but in practice, idtracker.ai also typically avoids using Protocol 3 due to its extremely long runtime. This part of the framing feels more like a rhetorical contrast than an informative one.

      We removed this, see new lines 153-157.

      (2.3) Lines 277-280: The contrastive loss function is written using the label l, but since it refers to a pair of images, it would be clearer and more precise to write it as l_{I,J}. This would help readers unfamiliar with contrastive learning understand the formulation more easily.

      We added this change in lines 613-620.

      (2.4) Lines 333-334: The manuscript states that TRex can fail to track certain videos, but this may be inaccurate depending on how the authors classify failures. TRex may return low uniqueness scores if training does not converge well, but this isn't equivalent to tracking failure. Moreover, the metric reported by TRex is uniqueness, not accuracy. Equating the two could mislead readers. If the authors did compare outputs to human-validated data, that should be stated more explicitly.

      We observed TRex crashing without outputting any trajectories on some occasions (Appendix 1—figure 1), and this is what we labeled as “failure”. These failures happened in the most difficult videos of our benchmark, that’s why we treated them the same way as idtracker.ai going to P3. We clarified this in new lines 464-469.

      The accuracy measured in our benchmark is not estimated but it is human-validated (see section Computation of tracking accuracy in Appendix 1). Both softwares report some quality estimators at the end of a tracking (“estimated accuracy” for idtracker.ai and "uniqueness” for TRex) but these were not used in the benchmark.

      (2.5) Lines 339-341: The evaluation approach defines a "successful run" and then sums the runtime across all attempts up to that point. If success is defined as simply producing any output, this may not reflect how experienced users actually interact with the software, where parameters are iteratively refined to improve quality.

      Yes, our benchmark was designed to be agnostic to the different experiences of the user. Also, our benchmark was designed for users that do not inspect the trajectories to choose parameters again not to leave room for potential subjectivity.

      (2.6) Lines 344-346: The simulation process involves sampling tracking parameters 10,000 times and selecting the first "successful" run. If parameter tuning is randomized rather than informed by expert knowledge, this could skew the results in favor of tools that require fewer or simpler adjustments. TRex relies on more tunable behavior, such as longer fragments improving training time, which this approach may not capture.

      We precisely used the TRex parameter track_max_speed to elongate fragments for optimal tracking. Rather than randomized parameter tuning, we defined the “valid range” for this parameter so that all values in it would produce a decent fragment structure. We used this procedure to avoid worsening those methods that use more parameters.

      (2.7) Line 354 onward: TRex was evaluated using two varying parameters (threshold and track_max_speed), while idtracker.ai used only one (intensity_threshold). With a fixed number of samples, this asymmetry could bias results against TRex. In addition, users typically set these parameters based on domain knowledge rather than random exploration.

      idtracker.ai and TRex have several parameters. Some of them have a single correct value (e.g. number of animals) or the default value that the system computes is already good (e.g. minimum blob size). For a second type of parameters, the system finds a value that is in general not as good, so users need to modify them. In general, users find that for this second type of parameter there is a valid interval of possible values, from which they need to choose a single value to run the system. idtracker.ai has intensity_threshold as the only parameter of this second type and TRex has two: threshold and track_max_speed. For these parameters, choosing one value or another within the valid interval can give different tracking results. Therefore, when we model a user that wants to run the system once except if it goes to P3 (idtracker.ai) or except if it crashes (TRex), it is these parameters we sample from within the valid interval to get a different value for each run of the system. We clarify this in lines 452-469 of the section “Benchmark of accuracy and tracking time”.

      Note that if we chose to simply run old idtracker.ai (v4 or v5) or TRex a single time, this would benefit the new idtracker.ai (v6). This is because old idtracker.ai can enter the very slow protocol 3 and TRex can fail to track. So running old idtracker.ai or TRex up to 5 times until old idtracker.ai does not use Protocol 3 and TRex does not fail is to make them as good as they can be with respect to the new idtracker.ai

      (2.8) Figure 2-figure supplement 3: The memory usage comparison lacks detail. It's unclear whether RAM or VRAM was measured, whether shared or compressed memory was included, or how memory was sampled. Since both tools dynamically adjust to system resources, the relevance of this comparison is questionable without more technical detail.

      We modified the text in the caption (new Figure 1-figure supplement 2) adding the kind of memory we measured (RAM) and how we measured it. We already have a disclaimer for this plot saying that memory management depends on the machine's available resources. We agree that this is a simple analysis of the usage of computer resources.

      (3) While the authors cite several key papers on contrastive learning, they do not use the introduction or discussion to effectively situate their approach within related fields where similar strategies have been widely adopted. For example, contrastive embedding methods form the backbone of modern facial recognition and other image similarity systems, where the goal is to map images into a latent space that separates identities or classes through clustering. This connection would help emphasize the conceptual strength of the approach and align the work with well-established applications. Similarly, there is a growing literature on animal re-identification (ReID), which often involves learning identity-preserving representations across time or appearance changes. Referencing these bodies of work would help readers connect the proposed method with adjacent areas using similar ideas, and show that the authors are aware of and building on this wider context.

      We have now added a new section in Appendix 3, “Differences with previous work in contrastive/metric learning” (lines 792-841) to include references to previous work and a description of what we do differently.

      (4) Some sections of the Results text (e.g., lines 48-74) read more like extended figure captions than part of the main narrative. They include detailed explanations of figure elements, sorting procedures, and video naming conventions that may be better placed in the actual figure captions or moved to supplementary notes. Streamlining this section in the main text would improve readability and help the central ideas stand out more clear

      Thank you for pointing this out. We have rewritten the Results, for example streamlining the old lines 48-74 (new lines 42-48)  by moving the comments about names, files and order of videos to the caption of Figure 1.

      Overall, though, this is a high-quality paper. The improvements to idtracker.ai are well justified and practically significant. Addressing the above comments will strengthen the work, particularly by clarifying the evaluation and comparisons.

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed suggestions. We believe we have taken all of them into consideration to improve the ms.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work introduces a new version of the state-of-the-art idtracker.ai software for tracking multiple unmarked animals. The authors aimed to solve a critical limitation of their previous software, which relied on the existence of "global fragments" (video segments where all animals are simultaneously visible) to train an identification classifier network, in addition to addressing concerns with runtime speed. To do this, the authors have both re-implemented the backend of their software in PyTorch (in addition to numerous other performance optimizations) as well as moving from a supervised classification framework to a self-supervised, contrastive representation learning approach that no longer requires global fragments to function. By defining positive training pairs as different images from the same fragment and negative pairs as images from any two co-existing fragments, the system cleverly takes advantage of partial (but high-confidence) tracklets to learn a powerful representation of animal identity without direct human supervision. Their formulation of contrastive learning is carefully thought out and comprises a series of empirically validated design choices that are both creative and technically sound. This methodological advance is significant and directly leads to the software's major strengths, including exceptional performance improvements in speed and accuracy and a newfound robustness to occlusion (even in severe cases where no global fragments can be detected). Benchmark comparisons show the new software is, on average, 44 times faster (up to 440 times faster on difficult videos) while also achieving higher accuracy across a range of species and group sizes. This new version of idtracker.ai is shown to consistently outperform the closely related TRex software (Walter & Couzin, 2021\), which, together with the engineering innovations and usability enhancements (e.g., outputs convenient for downstream pose estimation), positions this tool as an advancement on the state-of-the-art for multi-animal tracking, especially for collective behavior studies.

      Despite these advances, we note a number of weaknesses and limitations that are not well addressed in the present version of this paper:

      Weaknesses

      (1) The contrastive representation learning formulation. Contrastive representation learning using deep neural networks has long been used for problems in the multi-object tracking domain, popularized through ReID approaches like DML (Yi et al., 2014\) and DeepReID (Li et al., 2014). More recently, contrastive learning has become more popular as an approach for scalable self-supervised representation learning for open-ended vision tasks, as exemplified by approaches like SimCLR (Chen et al., 2020), SimSiam (Chen et al., 2020\), and MAE (He et al., 2021\) and instantiated in foundation models for image embedding like DINOv2 (Oquab et al., 2023). Given their prevalence, it is useful to contrast the formulation of contrastive learning described here relative to these widely adopted approaches (and why this reviewer feels it is appropriate):

      (1.1) No rotations or other image augmentations are performed to generate positive examples. These are not necessary with this approach since the pairs are sampled from heuristically tracked fragments (which produces sufficient training data, though see weaknesses discussed below) and the crops are pre-aligned egocentrically (mitigating the need for rotational invariance).

      (1.2) There is no projection head in the architecture, like in SimCLR. Since classification/clustering is the only task that the system is intended to solve, the more general "nuisance" image features that this architectural detail normally affords are not necessary here.

      (1.3) There is no stop gradient operator like in BYOL (Grill et al., 2020\) or SimSiam. Since the heuristic tracking implicitly produces plenty of negative pairs from the fragments, there is no need to prevent representational collapse due to class asymmetry. Some care is still needed, but the authors address this well through a pair sampling strategy (discussed below).

      (1.4) Euclidean distance is used as the distance metric in the loss rather than cosine similarity as in most contrastive learning works. While cosine similarity coupled with L2-normalized unit hypersphere embeddings has proven to be a successful recipe to deal with the curse of dimensionality (with the added benefit of bounded distance limits), the authors address this through a cleverly constructed loss function that essentially allows direct control over the intra- and inter-cluster distance (D\_pos and D\_neg). This is a clever formulation that aligns well with the use of K-means for the downstream assignment step.

      No concerns here, just clarifications for readers who dig into the review. Referencing the above literature would enhance the presentation of the paper to align with the broader computer vision literature.

      Thank you for this detailed comparison. We have now added a new section in Appendix 3, “Differences with previous work in contrastive/metric learning” (lines 792-841) to include references to previous work and a description of what we do differently, including the points raised by the reviewer.

      (2) Network architecture for image feature extraction backbone. As most of the computations that drive up processing time happen in the network backbone, the authors explored a variety of architectures to assess speed, accuracy, and memory requirements. They land on ResNet18 due to its empirically determined performance. While the experiments that support this choice are solid, the rationale behind the architecture selection is somewhat weak. The authors state that: "We tested 23 networks from 8 different families of state-of-the-art convolutional neural network architectures, selected for their compatibility with consumer-grade GPUs and ability to handle small input images (20 × 20 to 100 × 100 pixels) typical in collective animal behavior videos."

      (2.1) Most modern architectures have variants that are compatible with consumer-grade GPUs. This is true of, for example, HRNet (Wang et al., 2019), ViT (Dosovitskiy et al., 2020), SwinT (Liu et al., 2021), or ConvNeXt (Liu et al., 2022), all of which report single GPU training and fast runtime speeds through lightweight configuration or subsequent variants, e.g., MobileViT (Mehta et al., 2021). The authors may consider revising that statement or providing additional support for that claim (e.g., empirical experiments) given that these have been reported to outperform ResNet18 across tasks.

      Following the recommendation of the reviewer, we tested the architectures SwinT, ConvNeXt and ViT. We found out that none of them outperformed ResNet18 since they all showed a slower learning curve. This would result in higher tracking times. These tests are now included in the section “Network architecture” (lines 550-611).

      (2.2) The compatibility of different architectures with small image sizes is configurable. Most convolutional architectures can be readily adapted to work with smaller image sizes, including 20x20 crops. With their default configuration, they lose feature map resolution through repeated pooling and downsampling steps, but this can be readily mitigated by swapping out standard convolutions with dilated convolutions and/or by setting the stride of pooling layers to 1, preserving feature map resolution across blocks. While these are fairly straightforward modifications (and are even compatible with using pretrained weights), an even more trivial approach is to pad and/or resize the crops to the default image size, which is likely to improve accuracy at a possibly minimal memory and runtime cost. These techniques may even improve the performance with the architectures that the authors did test out.

      The only two tested architectures that require a minimum image size are AlexNet and DenseNet. DenseNet proved to underperform ResNet18 in the videos where the images are sufficiently large. We have tested AlexNet with padded images to see that it also performs worse than ResNet18 (see Appendix 3—figure 1).

      We also tested the initialization of ResNet18 with pre-trained weights from ImageNet (in Appendix 3—figure 2) and it proved to bring no benefit to the training speed (added in lines 591-592).

      (2.3) The authors do not report whether the architecture experiments were done with pretrained or randomly initialized weights.

      We adapted the text to make it clear that the networks are always randomly initialized (lines 591-592, lines 608-609 and the captions of Appendix 3—figure 1 and 2).

      (2.4) The authors do not report some details about their ResNet18 design, specifically whether a global pooling layer is used and whether the output fully connected layer has any activation function. Additionally, they do not report the version of ResNet18 employed here, namely, whether the BatchNorm and ReLU are applied after (v1) or before (v2) the conv layers in the residual path.

      We use ResNet18 v1 with no activation function nor bias in its last layer (this has been clarified in the lines 606-608). Also, by design, ResNet has a global average pool right before the last fully connected layer which we did not remove. In response to the reviewer, Resnet18 v2 was tested and its performance is the same as that of v1 (see Appendix 3—figure 1 and lines 590-591).

      (3) Pair sampling strategy. The authors devised a clever approach for sampling positive and negative pairs that is tailored to the nature of the formulation. First, since the positive and negative labels are derived from the co-existence of pretracked fragments, selection has to be done at the level of fragments rather than individual images. This would not be the case if one of the newer approaches for contrastive learning were employed, but it serves as a strength here (assuming that fragment generation/first pass heuristic tracking is achievable and reliable in the dataset). Second, a clever weighted sampling scheme assigns sampling weights to the fragments that are designed to balance "exploration and exploitation". They weigh samples both by fragment length and by the loss associated with that fragment to bias towards different and more difficult examples.

      (3.1) The formulation described here resembles and uses elements of online hard example mining (Shrivastava et al., 2016), hard negative sampling (Robinson et al., 2020\), and curriculum learning more broadly. The authors may consider referencing this literature (particularly Robinson et al., 2020\) for inspiration and to inform the interpretation of the current empirical results on positive/negative balancing.

      Following this recommendation, we added references of hard negative mining in the new section “Differences with previous work in contrastive/metric learning”, lines 792-841. Regarding curriculum learning, even though in spirit it might have parallels with our sampling method in the sense that there is a guided training of the network, we believe the approach is more similar to an exploration-exploitation paradigm.

      (4) Speed and accuracy improvements. The authors report considerable improvements in speed and accuracy of the new idTracker (v6) over the original idTracker (v4?) and TRex. It's a bit unclear, however, which of these are attributable to the engineering optimizations (v5?) versus the representation learning formulation.

      (4.1) Why is there an improvement in accuracy in idTracker v5 (L77-81)? This is described as a port to PyTorch and improvements largely related to the memory and data loading efficiency. This is particularly notable given that the progression went from 97.52% (v4; original) to 99.58% (v5; engineering enhancements) to 99.92% (v6; representation learning), i.e., most of the new improvement in accuracy owes to the "optimizations" which are not the central emphasis of the systematic evaluations reported in this paper.

      V5 was a two year-effort designed to improve time efficiency of v4. It was also a surprise to us that accuracy was higher, but that likely comes from the fact that the substituted code from v4 contained some small bug/s. The improvements in v5 are retained in v6 (contrastive learning) and v6 has higher accuracy and shorter tracking times. The difference in v6 for this extra accuracy and shorter tracking times is contrastive learning.

      (4.2) What about the speed improvements? Relative to the original (v4), the authors report average speed-ups of 13.6x in v5 and 44x in v6. Presumably, the drastic speed-up in v6 comes from a lower Protocol 2 failure rate, but v6 is not evaluated in Figure 2 - figure supplement 2.

      Idtracker.ai v5 runs an optimized Protocol 2 and, sometimes, the Protocol 3. But v6 doesn’t run either of them. While P2 is still present in v6 as a fallback protocol when contrastive fails, in our v6 benchmark P2 was never needed. So the v6 speedup comes from replacing both P2 and P3 with the contrastive algorithm.

      (5) Robustness to occlusion. A major innovation enabled by the contrastive representation learning approach is the ability to tolerate the absence of a global fragment (contiguous frames where all animals are visible) by requiring only co-existing pairs of fragments owing to the paired sampling formulation. While this removes a major limitation of the previous versions of idtracker.ai, its evaluation could be strengthened. The authors describe an ablation experiment where an arc of the arena is masked out to assess the accuracy under artificially difficult conditions. They find that the v6 works robustly up to significant proportions of occlusions, even when doing so eliminates global fragments.

      (5.1) The experiment setup needs to be more carefully described.

      (5.1.1) What does the masking procedure entail? Are the pixels masked out in the original video or are detections removed after segmentation and first pass tracking is done?

      The mask is defined as a region of interest in the software. This means that it is applied at the segmentation step where the video frame is converted to a foreground-background binary image. The region of interest is applied here, converting to background all pixels not inside of it. We clarified this in the newly added section Occlusion tests, lines 240-244.

      (5.1.2) What happens at the boundary of the mask? (Partial segmentation masks would throw off the centroids, and doing it after original segmentation does not realistically model the conditions of entering an occlusion area.)

      Animals at the boundaries of the mask are partially detected. This can change the location of their detected centroid. That’s why, when computing the ground-truth accuracy for these videos, only the groundtruth centroids that were at minimum 15 pixels further from the mask were considered. We clarified this in the newly added section Occlusion tests, lines 248-251.

      (5.1.3) Are fragments still linked for animals that enter and then exit the mask area?

      No artificial fragment linking was added in these videos. Detected fragments are linked the usual way. If one animal hides into the mask, the animal disappears so the fragment breaks.  We clarified this in the newly added section Occlusion tests, lines 245-247.

      (5.1.4) How is the evaluation done? Is it computed with or without the masked region detections?

      The groundtruth used to validate these videos contains the positions of all animals at all times. But only the positions outside the mask at each frame were considered to compute the tracking accuracy. We clarified this in the newly added section Occlusion tests, lines 248-251.

      (5.2) The circular masking is perhaps not the most appropriate for the mouse data, which is collected in a rectangular arena.

      We wanted to show the same proof of concept in different videos. For that reason, we used to cover the arena parametrized by an angle. In the rectangular arena the circular masking uses an external circle, so it is covering the rectangle parametrized by an angle.

      (5.3) The number of co-existing fragments, which seems to be the main determinant of performance that the authors derive from this experiment, should be reported for these experiments. In particular, a "number of co-existing fragments" vs accuracy plot would support the use of the 0.25(N-1) heuristic and would be especially informative for users seeking to optimize experimental and cage design. Additionally, the number of co-existing fragments can be artificially reduced in other ways other than a fixed occlusion, including random dropout, which would disambiguate it from potential allocentric positional confounds (particularly relevant in arenas where egocentric pose is correlated with allocentric position).

      We included the requested analysis about the fragment connectivity in Figure 3-figure supplement 1. We agree that there can be additional ways of reducing co-existing fragments, but we think the occlusion tests have the additional value that there are many real experiments similar to this test.

      (6) Robustness to imaging conditions. The authors state that "the new idtracker.ai can work well with lower resolutions, blur and video compression, and with inhomogeneous light (Figure 2 - figure supplement 4)." (L156). Despite this claim, there are no speed or accuracy results reported for the artificially corrupted data, only examples of these image manipulations in the supplementary figure.

      We added this information in the same image, new Figure 1 - figure supplement 3.

      (7) Robustness across longitudinal or multi-session experiments. The authors reference idmatcher.ai as a compatible tool for this use case (matching identities across sessions or long-term monitoring across chunked videos), however, no performance data is presented to support its usage. This is relevant as the innovations described here may interact with this setting. While deep metric learning and contrastive learning for ReID were originally motivated by these types of problems (especially individuals leaving and entering the FOV), it is not clear that the current formulation is ideally suited for this use case. Namely, the design decisions described in point 1 of this review are at times at odds with the idea of learning generalizable representations owing to the feature extractor backbone (less scalable), low-dimensional embedding size (less representational capacity), and Euclidean distance metric without hypersphere embedding (possible sensitivity to drift). It's possible that data to support point 6 can mitigate these concerns through empirical results on variations in illumination, but a stronger experiment would be to artificially split up a longer video into shorter segments and evaluate how generalizable and stable the representations learned in one segment are across contiguous ("longitudinal") or discontiguous ("multi-session") segments.

      We have now added a test to prove the reliability of idmatcher.ai in v6. In this test, 14 videos are taken from the benchmark and split in two non-overlapping parts (with a 200 frames gap in between). idmatcher.ai is run between the two parts presenting a 100% accuracy identity matching across all of them (see section “Validity of idmatcher.ai in the new idtracker.ai”, lines 969-1008).

      We thank the reviewer for the detailed suggestions. We believe we have taken all of them into consideration to improve the ms.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary

      The authors propose a new version of idTracker.ai for animal tracking. Specifically, they apply contrastive learning to embed cropped images of animals into a feature space where clusters correspond to individual animal identities.

      Strengths

      By doing this, the new software alleviates the requirement for so-called global fragments - segments of the video, in which all entities are visible/detected at the same time - which was necessary in the previous version of the method. In general, the new method reduces the tracking time compared to the previous versions, while also increasing the average accuracy of assigning the identity labels.

      Weaknesses

      The general impression of the paper is that, in its current form, it is difficult to disentangle the old from the new method and understand the method in detail. The manuscript would benefit from a major reorganization and rewriting of its parts. There are also certain concerns about the accuracy metric and reducing the computational time.

      We have made the following modifications in the presentation:

      (1) We have added section tiles to the main text so it is clearer what tracking system we are referring to. For example, we now have sections “Limitation of the original idtracker.ai”, “Optimizing idtracker.ai without changes in the learning method” and “The new idtracker.ai uses representation learning”.

      (2) We have completely rewritten all the text of the ms until we start with contrastive learning. Old L20-89 is now L20-L66, much shorter and easier to read.

      (3) We have rewritten the first 3 paragraphs in the section “The new idtracker.ai uses representation learning” (lines 68-92).

      (4) We now expanded Appendix 3 to discuss the details of our approach  (lines 539-897).  It discusses in detail the steps of the algorithm, the network architecture, the loss function, the sampling strategy, the clustering and identity assignment, and the stopping criteria in training

      (5) To cite previous work in detail and explain what we do differently, we have now added in Appendix 3 the new section “Differences with previous work in contrastive/metric learning” (lines 792-841).

      Regarding accuracy metrics, we have replaced our accuracy metric with the standard metric IDF1. IDF1 is the standard metric that is applied to systems in which the goal is to maintain consistent identities across time. See also the section in Appendix 1 "Computation of tracking accuracy” (lines 414-436) explaining IDF1 and why this is an appropriate metric for our goal.

      Using IDF1 we obtain slightly higher accuracies for the idtracker.ai systems. This is the comparison of mean accuracy over all our benchmark for our previous accuracy score and the new one for the full trajectories:

      v4:   97.42% -> 98.24%

      v5:   99.41% -> 99.49%

      v6:   99.74% -> 99.82%

      trex: 97.89% -> 97.89%

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestions about presentation and about the use of more standard metrics.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Figure 1a: A graphical legend inset would make it more readable since there are multiple colors, line styles, and connecting lines to parse out.

      Following this recommendation, we added a graphical legend in the old Figure 1 (new Figure 2).

      (2) L46: "have images" → "has images".

      We applied this correction. Line 35.

      (3) L52: "videos start with a letter for the species (z,**f**,m)", but "d" is used for fly videos.

      We applied this correction in the caption of Figure 1.

      (4) L62: "with Protocol 3 a two-step process" → "with Protocol 3 being a two-step process".

      We rewrote this paragraph without mentioning Protocol 3, lines 37-41.

      (5) L82-89: This is the main statement of the problems that are being addressed here (speed and relaxing the need for global fragments). This could be moved up, emphasized, and made clearer without the long preamble and results on the engineering optimizations in v5. This lack of linearity in the narrative is also evident in the fact that after Figure 1a is cited, inline citations skip to Figure 2 before returning to Figure 1 once the contrastive learning is introduced.

      We have rewritten all the text until the contrastive learning, (old lines 20-89 are now lines 20-66). The text is shorter, more linear and easier to read.

      (6) L114: "pairs until the distance D_{pos}" → "pairs until the distance approximates D_{pos}".

      We rewrote as “ pairs until the distance 𝐷pos (or 𝐷neg) is reached” in line 107.

      (7) L570: Missing a right parenthesis in the equation.

      We no longer have this equation in the ms.

      (8) L705: "In order to identify fragments we, not only need" → "In order to identify fragments, we not only need".

      We applied this correction, Line 775.

      (9) L819: "probably distribution" → "probability distribution".

      We applied this correction, Line 776.

      (10) L833: "produced the best decrease the time required" → "produced the best decrease of the time required".

      We applied this correction, Line 746.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) We recommend rewriting and restructuring the manuscript. The paper includes a detailed explanation of the previous approaches (idTracker and idTracker.ai) and their limitations. In contrast, the description of the proposed method is short and unstructured, which makes it difficult to distinguish between the old and new methods as well as to understand the proposed method in general. Here are a few examples illustrating the problem. 

      (1.1) Only in line 90 do the authors start to describe the work done in this manuscript. The previous 3 pages list limitations of the original method.

      We have now divided the main text into sections, so it is clearer what is the previous method (“Limitation of the original idtracker.ai”, lines 28-51), the new optimization we did of this method (“Optimizing idtracker.ai without changes in the learning method”, lines 52-66) and the new contrastive approach that also includes the optimizations (“The new idtracker.ai uses representation learning”, lines 66-164). Also, the new text has now been streamlined until the contrastive section, following your suggestion. You can see that in the new writing the three sections are 25 , 15 and 99 lines. The more detailed section is the new system, the other two are needed as reference, to describe which problem we are solving and the extra new optimizations.  

      (1.2) The new method does not have a distinct name, and it is hard to follow which idtracker.ai is a specific part of the text referring to. Not naming the new method makes it difficult to understand.

      We use the name new idtracker.ai (v6) so it becomes the current default version. v5 is now obsolete, as well as v4. And from the point of view of the end user, no new name is needed since v6 is just an evolution of the same software they have been using. Also, we added sections in the main text to clarify the ideas in there and indicate the version of idtracker.ai we are referring to.

      (1.3) There are "Protocol 2" and "Protocol 3" mixed with various versions of the software scattered throughout the text, which makes it hard to follow. There should be some systematic naming of approaches and a listing of results introduced.

      Following this recommendation we no longer talk about the specific protocols of the old version of idtracker.ai in the main text. We rewritten the explanation of these versions in a more clear and straightforward way, lines 29-36.

      (2) To this end, the authors leave some important concepts either underexplained or only referenced indirectly via prior work. For example, the explanation of how the fragments are created (line 15) is only explained by the "video structure" and the algorithm that is responsible for resolving the identities during crossings is not detailed (see lines 46-47, 149-150). Including summaries of these elements would improve the paper's clarity and accessibility.

      We listed the specific sections from our previous publication where the reader can find information about the entire tracking pipeline (lines 539-549). This way, we keep the ms clear and focused on the new identification algorithm while indicating where to find such information.

      (3) Accuracy metrics are not clear. In line 319, the authors define it as based on "proportion of errors in the trajectory". This proportion is not explained. How is the error calculated if a trajectory is lost or there are identity swaps? Multi-object tracking has a range of accuracy metrics that account for such events but none of those are used by the authors. Estimating metrics that are common for MOT literature, for example, IDF1, MOTA, and MOTP, would allow for better method performance understanding and comparison.

      In the new ms, we replaced our accuracy metric with the standard metric IDF1. IDF1 is the standard metric that is applied to systems in which the goal is to maintain consistent identities across time. See also the section in Appendix 1 "Computation of tracking accuracy” explaining why IDF1 and not MOTA or MOTP is the adequate metric for a system that wants to give correct tracking by identification in time. See lines 416-436.

      Using IDF1 we obtain slightly higher accuracies for the idtracker.ai systems. This is the comparison of mean accuracy four our previous accuracy and the new one for the full trajectories:

      v4:   97.42% -> 98.24%

      v5:   99.41% -> 99.49%

      v6:   99.74% -> 99.82%

      trex: 97.89% -> 97.89%

      (4) Additionally, the authors distinguish between tracking with and without crossings, but do not provide statistics on the frequency of crossings per video. It is also unclear how the crossings are considered for the final output. Including information such as the frame rate of the videos would help to better understand the temporal resolution and the differences between consecutive frames of the videos.

      We added this information in the Appendix 1 “Benchmark of accuracy and tracking time”, lines 445-451. The framerate in our benchmark videos goes from 25 to 60 fps (average of 37 fps). On average 2.6% of the blobs are crossings (1.1% for zebrafish 0.7% for drosophila 9.4% for mice).

      (5) In the description of the dataset used for evaluation (lines 349-365), the authors describe the random sampling of parameter values for each tracking run. However, it is unclear whether the same values were used across methods. Without this clarification, comparisons between the proposed method, older versions, and TRex might be biased due to lucky parameter combinations. In addition, the ranges from which the values were randomly sampled were also not described.

      Only one parameter is shared between idtracker.ai and TRex: intensity_threshold (in idtracker.ai) and threshold (in TRex). Both are conceptually equivalent but differ in their numerical values since they affect different algorithms. V4, v5, and TRex each required the same process of independent expert visual inspection of the segmentation to select the valid value range. Since versions 5 and 6 use exactly the same segmentation algorithm, they share the same parameter ranges.

      All the ranges of valid values used in our benchmark are public here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tFxdtFUudl02ICS99vYKrZLeF28TiYpZ as stated in the section “Data availability”, lines 227-228.

      (6) Lines 122-123, Figure 1c. "batches" - is an imprecise metric of training time as there is no information about the batch size.

      We clarified the Figure caption, new Figure 2c.

      (7) Line 145 - "we run some steps... For example..." leaves the method description somewhat unclear. It would help if you could provide more details about how the assignments are carried out and which metrics are being used.

      Following this recommendation, we listed the specific sections from our previous publication where the reader can find information about the entire tracking pipeline (lines 539-549). This way, we keep the ms clear and focused on the new identification algorithm while indicating where to find such information.

      (8) Figure 3. How is tracking accuracy assessed with occlusions? Are the individuals correctly recognized when they reappear from the occluded area?

      The groundtruth for this video contains the positions of all animals at all times. Only the groundtruth points inside the region of interest are taken into account when computing the accuracy. When the tracking reaches high accuracy, it means that animals are successfully relabeled every time they enter the non-masked region. Note that this software works all the time by identification of animals, so crossings and occlusion are treated the same way. What is new here is that the occlusions are so large that there are no global fragments. We clarified this in the new section “Occlusion tests” in Methods, lines 239-251.

      (9) Lines 185-187 this part of the sentence is not clear.

      We rewrote this part in a clearer way, lines 180-182.

      (10) The authors also highlight the improved runtime performance. However, they do not provide a detailed breakdown of the time spent on each component of the tracking/training pipeline. A timing breakdown would help to compare the training duration with the other components. For example, the calculation of the Silhouette Score alone can be time-consuming and could be a bottleneck in the training process. Including this information would provide a clearer picture of the overall efficiency of the method.

      We measured that the training of ResNet takes on average in our benchmark 47% of the tracking time (we added this information line 551 section “Network Architecture”). In this training stage the bottleneck becomes the network forward and backward pass, limited by the GPU performance. All other processes happening during training have been deeply optimized and parallelized when needed so their contribution to the training time is minimal. Apart from the training, we also measured 24.4% of the total tracking time spent in reading and segmenting the video files and 11.1% in processing the identification images and detecting crossings.

      (11) An important part of the computational cost is related to model training. It would be interesting to test whether a model trained on one video of a specific animal type (e.g., zebrafish_5) generalizes to another video of the same type (e.g., zebrafish_7). This would assess the model's generalizability across different videos of the same species and spare a lot of compute. Alternatively, instead of training a model from scratch for each video, the authors could also consider training a base model on a superset of images from different videos and then fine-tuning it with a lower learning rate for each specific video. This could potentially save time and resources while still achieving good performance.

      Already before v6, there was the possibility for the user to start training the identification network by copying the final weights from another tracking session. This knowledge transfer feature is still present in v6 and it still decreases the training times significatively. This information has been added in Appendix 4, lines 906-909.

      We have already begun working on the interesting idea of a general base model but it brings some complex challenges. It could be a very useful new feature for future idtracker.ai releases.

      We thank the reviewer for the many suggestions. We have implemented all of them.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This manuscript presents the ACT-DEPP dataset, a comprehensive single-nucleus RNA-sequencing atlas of the mouse hippocampus that examines how activity-dependent and circadian transcriptional programs intersect. The dataset spans multiple experimental conditions and circadian time points, clarifying how cell-type identity relates to transcriptional state. In particular, the authors compare stimulus-evoked activity programs (environmental enrichment and kainate-induced seizures) with circadian phase-dependent transcriptional oscillations. They also identify a transcriptional inflection point near ZT12 and argue that immediate early gene (IEG) induction is broadly maintained across circadian phases, with minimal ZT-dependent modulation.

      Strengths:

      The study is ambitious in scope and data volume, and outlines the data-processing and atlas-registration workflows. The side-by-side treatment of stimulus paradigms and ZT sampling provides a coherent framework for parsing state (activity) from phase (circadian) across diverse neuronal and non-neuronal classes. Several findings - especially the ZT12 "inflection" and the differential sensitivity of pathways across subclasses - are intriguing.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors acknowledge, but do not adequately address, the fundamental confounding factor between circadian phase and spontaneous locomotor activity. The assertion that these represent "orthogonal regulatory axes," based on largely non-overlapping DEGs, may be overstated. The absence of behavioral monitoring during baseline is a major limitation.

      (2) The statement "Thus, novel experiences and seizures trigger categorically distinct transcriptional responses-with respect to both magnitude and specific genes-in these hippocampal subregions" is overstated, given the data presented. Figure 2A-B shows that approximately one-third of EE-induced DEGs at 30 minutes overlap with KA DEGs, and this overlap increases substantially at 6 hours in CA1 (where EE and KA responses become "fully shared"). This suggests the responses are quantitatively different rather than "categorically distinct."

      (3) In Figure 4B, "active cells" are defined as those with {greater than or equal to}3 of 15 IEGs above the 90th percentile, with thresholds apparently calibrated in CA1. Because baseline expression distributions differ across subclasses, this rule can bias activation rates across cell types.

      (4) Few genes show significant ZT × stimulus (EE or seizure) interactions, concentrated in neuronal populations. Given unequal nucleus counts and biological replicates across subclasses, small effects may be underpowered.

      (5) In Figure 6 I, J, the relationship between the highlighted pathways/functions and circadian phase is not yet explicit.

      (6) Line 276-280: The enrichment of lncRNAs at ZT12 in CA1 is intriguing but underdeveloped. What are these lncRNAs, and what might they regulate?

      Overall, most descriptive conclusions are supported (e.g., broad phase-robustness of classical IEGs; an inflection near ZT12). Claims about the separability/orthogonality of activity vs circadian programs, and about categorical distinctions between EE and KA responses, would benefit from more conservative wording or additional analyses to rule out behavioral and power-related alternatives.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Vglut2 isn't a very selective promoter for the STN. Did the authors verify every injection across brain slices to ensure the para-subthalamic nucleus, thalamus, lateral hypothalamus, and other Vglut2-positive structures were never infected?

      The STN is anatomically well-confined, with its borders and the overlying zona incerta (composed of GABAergic neurons) providing protection against off-target expression in most neighboring forebrain regions. All viral injections were histologically verified and did not into extend into thalamic or hypothalamic areas. As described in the Methods, we employed an app we developed (Brain Atlas Analyzer, available on OriginLab) that aligns serial histological sections with the Allen Brain Atlas to precisely assess viral spread and confirm targeting accuracy. The experiments included in the revised manuscript now focus on optogenetic inhibition and irreversible lesion approaches—three complementary methods that consistently targeted the STN and yielded similar behavioral effects.

      (2) The authors say in the methods that the high vs low power laser activation for optogenetic experiments was defined by the behavioral output. This is misleading, and the high vs low power should be objectively stated and the behavioral results divided according to the power used, not according to the behavioral outcome.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study.

      (3) In the fiber photometry experiments exposing mice to the range of tones, it is impossible to separate the STN response to the tone from the STN response to the movement evoked by the tone. The authors should expose the mouse to the tones in a condition that prevents movement, such as anesthetized or restrained, to separate out the two components.

      The new mixed-effects modeling approach clearly differentiates sensory (auditory) from motor contributions during tone-evoked STN activation. In prior work (see Hormigo et al, 2023, eLife), we explored experimental methods such as head restraint or anesthesia to reduce movement, but we concluded that these approaches are unsuitable for addressing this question. Mice exhibit substantial residual movement even when head-fixed, and anesthesia profoundly alters neural excitability and behavioral state, introducing major confounds. To fully eliminate movement would require paralysis and artificial ventilation, which would again disrupt physiological network dynamics and raise ethical concerns. Therefore, the current modeling approach—incorporating window-specific covariates for movement—is the most appropriate and rigorous way to dissociate tone-evoked sensory activity from motor activity in behaving animals.

      (4) The claim 'STN activation is ideally suited to drive active avoids' needs more explanation. This claim comes after the fiber photometry experiments during active avoidance tasks, so there has been no causality established yet.

      Text adjusted. 

      (5) The statistical comparisons in Figure 7E need some justification and/or clarification. The 9 neuron types are originally categorized based on their response during avoids, then statistics are run showing that they respond differently during avoids. It is no surprise that they would have significantly different responses, since that is how they were classified in the first place. The authors must explain this further and show that this is not a case of circular reasoning.

      Statistically verifying the clustering is useful to ensure that the selected number of clusters reflects distinct classes. It is also necessary when different measurements are used to classify (movement time series classified the avoids) and to compare neuronal types within each avoid mode/class (know called “mode”). Moreover, the new modeling approach goes beyond the prior statistical limitations related to considering movement and neuronal variables separately. 

      (6) The authors show that neurons that have strong responses to orientation show reduced activity during avoidance. What are the implications of this? The author should explain why this is interesting and important.

      The new modeling approach goes beyond the prior analysis limitations. For instance, it shows that most of the prior orienting related activations closely reflect the orienting movement, and only in a few cases (noted and discussed in the results) orienting activations are related to the behavioral contingencies or behavioral outcomes in the task. 

      (8) The experiments in Figure 10 are used to say that STN stimulation is not aversive, but they only show that STN stimulation cannot be used as punishment in place of a shock. This doesn't mean that it is not aversive; it just means it is not as aversive as a shock. The authors should do a simpler aversion test, such as conditioned or real-time place preference, to claim that STN stimulation is not aversive. This is particularly surprising as previous work (Serra et al., 2023) does show that STN stimulation is aversive.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study. 

      (7) It is not clear which conditions each mouse experienced in which order. This is critical to the interpretation of Figure 9 and the reduction of passive avoids during STN stimulation. Did these mice have the CS1+STN stimulation pairing or the STN+US pairing prior to this experiment? If they did, the stimulation of the STN could be strongly associated with either punishment or with the CS1 that predicts punishment. If that is the case, stimulating the STN during CS2 could be like presenting CS1+CS2 at the same time and could be confusing.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study. 

      (8) The experiments in Figure 10 are used to say that STN stimulation is not aversive, but they only show that STN stimulation cannot be used as punishment in place of a shock. This doesn't mean that it is not aversive; it just means it is not as aversive as a shock. The authors should do a simpler aversion test, such as conditioned or real-time place preference, to claim that STN stimulation is not aversive. This is particularly surprising as previous work (Serra et al., 2023) does show that STN stimulation is aversive.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study.

      (9) In the discussion, the idea that the STN encodes 'moving away' from contralateral space is pretty vague and unsupported. It is puzzling that the STN activates more strongly to contraversive turns, but when stimulated, it evokes ipsiversive turns; however, it seems a stretch to speculate that this is related to avoidance. In the last experiments of the paper, the axons from the STN to the GPe and to the midbrain are selectively stimulated. Do these evoke ipsiversive turns similarly?

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study. 

      (10) In the discussion, the authors claim that the STN is essential for modulating action timing in response to demands, but their data really only show this in one direction. The STN stimulation reliably increases the speed of response in all conditions (except maximum speed conditions such as escapes). It seems to be over-interpreting the data to say this is an inability to modulate the speed of the task, especially as clear learning and speed modulation do occur under STN lesion conditions, as shown in Figure 12B. The mice learn to avoid and increase their latency in AA2 vs AA1, though the overall avoids and latency are different from controls. The more parsimonious conclusion would be that STN stimulation biases movement speed (increasing it) and that this is true in many different conditions.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study.

      (11)  In the discussion, the authors claim that the STN projections to the midbrain tegmentum directly affect the active avoidance behavior, while the STN projections to the SNr do not affect it. This seems counter to their results, which show STN projections to either area can alter active avoidance behavior. What is the laser power used in these terminal experiments? If it is high (3mW), the authors may be causing antidromic action potentials in the STN somas, resulting in glutamate release in many brain areas, even when terminals are only stimulated in one area. The authors could use low (0.25mW) laser power in the terminals to reduce the chance of antidromic activation and spatially restrict the optical stimulation.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study. 

      (12) Was normality tested for data prior to statistical testing?

      Yes, although now we use mixed models

      (13) Why are there no error bars on Figure 5B, black circles and orange triangles?

      When error bars are not visible, they are smaller than the trace thickness or bar line—for example, in Figure 5B, the black circles and orange triangles include error bars, but they are smaller than the symbol size.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      (1) I really don't understand or accept this idea that delayed movement is necessarily indicative of cautious movements. Is the distribution of responses multi-modal in a way that might support this idea, or do the authors simply take a normal distribution and assert that the slower responses represent 'caution'? Even if responses are multi-modal and clearly distinguished by 'type', why should readers think this that delayed responses imply cautious responding instead of say: habituation or sensitization to cue/shock, variability in attention, motivation, or stress; or merely uncertainty which seems plausible given what I understand of the task design where the same mice are repeatedly tested in changing conditions. This relates to a major claim (i.e., in the work's title).

      In our study, “caution” is defined operationally as the tendency to delay initiation of an avoidance response in demanding situations (e.g., taking more time or care before crossing a busy street). The increase in avoidance latency with task difficulty is highly robust, as we have shown previously through detailed analyses of timing distributions and direct comparisons with appetitive behaviors (e.g., Zhou et al., 2022 JNeurosci). Moreover, we used the tracked movement time series to statistically classify responses into cautious modes, which is likely novel. This definition can dissociate cautious responding from broader constructs listed by a reviewer, such as attention, motivation, or stress, which must be explicitly defined to be rigorously considered in this context, including the likelihood that they covary with caution without being equivalent to it. 

      Cue-evoked orienting responses at CS onset are directly measured, and their habituation and sensitization have been characterized in our prior work (e.g., Zhou et al., 2023 JNeurosci). US-evoked escapes are also measured in the present study and directly compared with avoidance responses. Together, these analyses provide a rigorous and consistent framework for defining and quantifying caution within our behavioral procedures.

      Importantly, mice exhibit cautious responding as defined here across different tasks, making it more informative to classify avoidance responses by behavioral mode rather than by task alone. Accordingly, in the miniscope, single-neuron, and mixed-effects model analyses, we classified active avoids into distinct modes reflecting varying levels of caution. Although these modes covary with task contingencies, their explicit classification improves model predictability and interpretability with respect to cautious responding.

      (2) Related to the last, I'm struggling to understand the rationale for dividing cells into 'types' based the their physiological responses in some experiments (e.g., Figure 7).

      This section has now been expanded into 3 figures (Fig. 7-9) with new modeling approaches that should make the rationale more straight forward.

      By emphasizing the mixed-effects modeling results and integrating these analyses directly into the figures, the revised manuscript now more clearly delineates what is encoded at the population and single-neuron levels. Including movement and baseline covariates allowed us to dissociate motor-related modulation from other neural signals, substantially clarifying the distinction between movement encoding and other task-related variables, which we focus on in the paper. These analyses confirm the strong role of the STN in representing movement while revealing additional signals related to aversive stimulation and cautious responding that persist after accounting for motor effects. These signals arise from distinct neuronal populations that can be differentiated by their movement sensitivity and activation patterns across avoidance modes, reflecting varying levels of caution. At the same time, several effects that initially reflected orienting-related activity at CS-onset (note that our movement tracking captures both head position and orientation as a directional vector) dissipated once movement and baseline covariates were included in the models, emphasizing the utility of the analytical improvements in the revision.

      (3)The description and discussion of orienting head movements were not well supported, but were much discussed in the avoidance datasets. The initial speed peaks to cue seem to be the supporting data upon which these claims rest, but nothing here suggests head movement or orientation responses.

      As described in the methods (and noted above), we track the head and decompose the movement into rotational and translational components. With the new approach, several effects that initially reflected orienting-related activity at CS-onset (note that our movement tracking captures both head position and orientation as a directional vector) dissipated once movement and baseline covariates were included in the models, emphasizing the utility of the analytical improvements in the revision.

      (4) Similar to the last, the authors note in several places, including abstract, the importance of STN in response timing, i.e., particularly when there must be careful or precise timing, but I don't think their data or task design provides a strong basis for this claim.

      The avoidance modes and the measured latencies directly support the relation to action timing, but now the portion of the previous paper about optogenetic excitation and apparently the main source of criticism is no longer in the present study. 

      (5) I think that other reports show that STN calcium activity is recruited by inescapable foot shock as well. What do these authors see? Is shock, independent of movement, contributing to sharp signals during escapes?

      The question, “Is shock, independent of movement, contributing to sharp signals during escapes?” is now directly addressed in the revised analyses. By incorporating movement and baseline covariates into the mixed-effects models, we dissociate STN activity related to aversive stimulation from that associated with motor output. The results show that shock-evoked STN activation persists even after controlling for movement within defined neuronal populations, supporting a specific nociceptive contribution independent of motor dynamics—a dissociation that appears to be new in this field.

      (6) In particular, and related to the last point, the following work is very relevant and should be cited:  Note that the focus of this other paper is on a subset of VGLUT2+ Tac1 neurons in paraSTN, but using VGLUT2-Cre to target STN will target both STN and paraSTN.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s reference to the recent preprint highlighting the role of the para-subthalamic nucleus in avoidance learning. However, our study focused specifically on performance in well-trained mice rather than on learning processes. Behavioral learning is inherently more variable and can be disrupted by less specific manipulations, whereas our experiments targeted the stable execution of learned avoidance behaviors. Future work will extend these findings to the learning phase and examine potential contributions of subthalamic subdivisions, which our current Vglut2-based manipulations do not dissociate. We will consider this and related work more closely in those studies.

      (7) In multiple other instances, claims that were more tangential to the main claims were made without clearly supporting data or statistics. E.g., claim that STN activation is related to translational more than rotational movement; claim that GCaMP and movement responses to auditory cues were small; claims that 'some animals' responded differently without showing individual data.

      We have adjusted the text accordingly.

      (8) In several figures, the number of subjects used was not described. This is necessary. Also necessary is some assessment of the variability across subjects. The only measure of error shown in many figures relates to trial-to-trial or event variability, which is minimal because, in many cases, it appears that hundreds of trials may have been averaged per animal, but this doesn't provide a strong view of biological variability. When bar/line plots are used to display data, I recommend showing individual animals where feasible.

      All experiments report number of mice and sessions. Wherever feasible, we display individual data points (e.g., Figures 1 and 2) to convey variability directly. However, in cases where figures depict hundreds of paired (repeated-measures) data points, showing all points without connecting them would not be appropriate, while linking them would make the figures visually cluttered and uninterpretable. All plots and traces include measures of variability (SEM), and the raw data will be shared on Dryad. When error bars are not visible, they are smaller than the trace thickness or bar line—for example, in Figure 5B, the black circles and orange triangles include error bars, but they are smaller than the symbol size.

      Also, to minimize visual clutter, only a subset of relevant comparisons is highlighted with asterisks, whereas all relevant statistical results, comparisons, and mouse/session numbers are fully reported in the Results section, with statistical analyses accounting for the clustering of data within subjects and sessions.

      (9) Can the authors consider the extent to which calcium imaging may be better suited to identify increases compared to decreases and how this may affect the results, particularly related to the GRIN data when similar numbers of cells show responses in both directions (e.g., Figure 3)?

      This is an interesting issue related to a widely used technique beyond the scope of our study.

      (10) Raw example traces are not provided.

      We do not think raw traces are useful here. All figures contain average traces to reflect the activity of the estimated population.

      (11) The timeline of the spontaneous movement and avoidance sessions was not clear, nor was the number of events or sessions per animal nor how this was set. It is not clear if there was pre-training or habituation, if many or variable sessions were combined per animal, or what the time gaps between sessions were, or if or how any of these parameters might influence interpretation of the results.

      We have enhanced the description of the sessions, including the number of animals and sessions, which are daily and always equal per animals in each group of experiments. As noted, the sessions are part of the random effects in the model.

      (12) It is not clear if or how the spread of expression outside of the target STN was evaluated, and if or how many mice were excluded due to spread or fiber placements.

      The STN is anatomically well-confined, with its borders and the overlying zona incerta (composed of GABAergic neurons) providing protection against off-target expression in most neighboring forebrain regions. All viral injections were histologically verified and did not into extend into thalamic or hypothalamic areas. As described in the Methods, we employed an app we developed (Brain Atlas Analyzer, available on OriginLab) that aligns serial histological sections with the Allen Brain Atlas to precisely assess viral spread and confirm targeting accuracy. The experiments included in the revised manuscript now focus on optogenetic inhibition and irreversible lesion approaches—three complementary methods that consistently targeted the STN and yielded similar behavioral effects.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      The primary feedback agreed upon by all the reviewers was that the manuscript requires significant streamlining as it is currently overly long and convoluted.

      We thank the reviewers and editors for their thoughtful and constructive feedback. In response to the primary comment that “the manuscript requires significant streamlining as it is currently overly long and convoluted,” we have substantially revised and refocused the paper. Specifically, we streamlined the included data and enhanced the analyses to emphasize the central findings: the encoding of movement, cautious responding, and punishment in the STN during avoidance behavior. We also focused the causal component of the study by including only the loss-of-function experiments—both optogenetic inhibition and irreversible viral/electrolytic lesions—that establish the critical role of STN circuits in generating active avoidance. Together, these revisions enhance clarity, tighten the narrative focus, and align the manuscript more closely with the reviewers’ recommendations.

      Major revisions include the addition of mixed-effects modeling to dissociate the contributions of movement from other STN-encoded signals related to caution and punishment. This modeling approach allowed us to reveal that these components are statistically separable, demonstrating that movement, cautious responding, and aversive input are encoded by neuronal subsets. To streamline the manuscript and address reviewer concerns, we removed the optogenetic excitation experiments. As revised, the paper presents a more concise and cohesive narrative showing that STN neurons differentially encode movement, caution, and aversive stimuli, and that this circuitry is essential for generating active avoidance behavior.

      Many of the specific points raised by reviewers now fall outside the scope of the revised manuscript. This is primarily because the revised version omits data and analyses related to optogenetic excitation and associated control experiments. By removing these components, the paper now presents a streamlined and internally consistent dataset focused on how the STN encodes movement, cautious responding, and aversive outcomes during avoidance behavior, as well as on loss-of-function experiments demonstrating its necessity for generating active avoidance. Below, we address the points that remain relevant across reviews.

      Following extensive revisions, the current manuscript differs in several important ways from what the assessment describes:

      The description that the study “uses fiber photometry, implantable lenses, and optogenetics” is more accurately represented as using both fiber photometry and singleneuron calcium imaging with miniscopes, combined with optogenetic and irreversible lesion approaches.

      The phrase stating that “active but not passive avoidance depends in part on STN projections to substantia nigra” is better characterized as “STN projections to the midbrain,” since our data show that optogenetic inhibition of STN terminals in both the mesencephalic reticular tegmentum (MRT) and substantia nigra pars reticulata (SNr) produce equivalent effects, and thus these sites are combined in the study. 

      Finally, the original concern that evidence for STN involvement in cautious responding or avoidance speed was incomplete no longer applies. The revised focus on encoding, through the inclusion of mixed-effects modeling, now dissociates movement-related, cautious, and aversive components of STN activity. By removing the optogenetic excitation data, we no longer claim that the STN controls caution but rather that it encodes cautious responding, alongside movement and punishment signals. Furthermore, loss-of-function experiments demonstrate that silencing STN output abolishes active avoidance entirely, supporting an essential role for the STN in generating goal-directed avoidance behavior—a behavioral domain that, unlike appetitive responding, is fundamentally defined by caution and the need to balance action timing under threat.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Show individual data points on bar plots.

      Wherever feasible, we display individual data points (e.g., Figures 1 and 2) to convey variability directly. However, in cases where figures depict hundreds of paired (repeatedmeasures) data points, showing all points without connecting them would not be appropriate, while linking them would make the figures visually cluttered and uninterpretable. All plots and traces include measures of variability (SEM), and the raw data will be shared on Dryad. When error bars are not visible, they are smaller than the trace thickness or bar line—for example, in Figure 5B, the black circles and orange triangles include error bars, but they are smaller than the symbol size.

      Also, to minimize visual clutter, only a subset of relevant comparisons is highlighted with asterisks, whereas all relevant statistical results, comparisons, and mouse/session numbers are fully reported in the Results section, with statistical analyses accounting for the clustering of data within subjects and sessions.

      (2) The active avoidance experiments are confusing when they are introduced in the results section. More explanation of what paradigms were used and what each CS means at the time these are introduced would add clarity. For example, AA1, AA2, etc, are explained only with references to other papers, but a brief description of each protocol and a schematic figure would really help.

      The avoidance protocols (AA1–4) are now described briefly but clearly in the Results section (second paragraph of “STN neurons activate during goal-directed avoidance contingencies”) and in greater detail in the Methods section. As stated, these tasks were conducted sequentially, and mice underwent the same number of sessions per procedure, which are indicated. All relevant procedural information has been included in these sections. Mice underwent daily sessions and learnt these tasks within 1-2 sessions, progressing sequentially across tasks with an equal number of sessions per task (7 per task), and the resulting data were combined and clustered by mouse/session in the statistical models.

      (3) How do the Class 1, 2, 3 avoids relate to Class 1, 2, 3 neural types established in Figure 3? It seems like they are not related, and if that is the case, they should be named something different from each other to avoid confusion. (4) Similarly, having 3 different cell types (a,b,c) in the active avoidance seems unrelated to the original classification of cell types (1,2,3), and these are different for each class of avoid. This is very confusing, and it is unclear how any of these types relate to each other. Presumably, the same mouse has all three classes of avoids, so there are recordings from each cell during each type of avoid.

      The terms class, mode, and type are now clearly distinguished throughout the manuscript. Modes refer to distinct patterns of avoidance behavior that differ in the level of cautious responding (Mode 3 is most cautious). Within each mode, types denote subgroups of neurons identified based on their ΔF/F activity profiles. In contrast, classes categorize neurons according to their relationship to movement, determined by cross-correlation analyses between ΔF/F and head speed (Class1-4; Fig. 7 is a new analysis) or head turns (ClassA-C, renamed from 1-3). This updated terminology clarifies the analytic structure, highlighting distinct neuronal populations within each analysis. For example, during avoidance behaviors, these classifications distinguish neurons encoding movement-, caution-, and outcome-related signals. Comparisons are conducted within each analytical set, within classes (A-C or 1-4 separately), within avoidance modes, or within modespecific neuronal types.

      …So the authors could compare one cell during each avoid and determine whether it relates to movement or sound, or something else. It is interesting that types a,b, and c have the exact same proportions in each class of avoid, and makes it important to investigate if these are the exact same cells or not.

      That previous table with the a,b,c % in the three figure panels was a placeholder, which was not updated in the included figure. It has now been correctly updated. They do not have the same proportions as shown in Fig. 9, although they are similar.

      Also, these mice could be recorded during the open field, so the original neural classification (class 1, 2,3) could be applied to these same cells, and then the authors can see whether each cell type defined in the open field has a different response to the different avoid types. As it stands, the paper simply finds that during movement and during avoidance behaviors, different cells in the STN do different things.

      We included a new analysis in Fig. 7 that classifies neurons based on the cross-correlation with movement. The inclusion of the models now clearly assigns variance to movement versus the other factors, and this analysis leads to the classification based on avoid modes. 

      (5) The use of the same colors to mean two different things in Figure 9 is confusing. AA1 vs AA2 shouldn't be the same colors as light-naïve vs light signaling CS.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study.

      (6) The exact timeline of the optogenetics experiments should be presented as a schematic for understanding. It is not clear which conditions each mouse experienced in which order. This is critical to the interpretation of Figure 9 and the reduction of passive avoids during STN stimulation. Did these mice have the CS1+STN stimulation pairing or the STN+US pairing prior to this experiment? If they did, the stimulation of the STN could be strongly associated with either punishment or with the CS1that predicts punishment. If that is the case, stimulating the STN during CS2 could be like presentingCS1+CS2 at the same time and could be confusing. The authors should make it clear whether the mice were naïve during this passive avoid experiment or whether they had experienced STN stimulation paired with anything prior to this experiment.

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study.

      (20) Similarly, the duration of the STN stimulation should be made clear on the plots that show behavior over time (e.g., Figure 9E).

      Optogenetic excitation is no longer part of the study.

      (21) There is just so much data and so many conditions for each experiment here. The paper is dense and difficult to read. It would really benefit readability if the authors put only the key experiments and key figure panels in the main text and moved much of the repetitive figure panels to supplemental figures. The addition of schematic drawings for behavioral experiment timing and for the different AA1, AA2, and AA3 conditions would also really improve clarity.

      By focusing the study, we believe it has substantially improved clarity and readability. 

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Minor error in results 'Cre-AAV in the STN of Vglut2-Cre' Fixed.

      (2) In some Figure 2 panels, the peaks appear to be cut off, and blue traces are obscured by red.

      In Fig. 2, the peaks of movement (speed) traces are intentionally truncated to emphasize the rising phase of the turn, which would otherwise be obscured if the full y-axis range were displayed (peaks and other measures are statistically compared). This adjustment enhances clarity without omitting essential detail and is now noted in the legend.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Artiushin et al. establish a comprehensive 3D atlas of the brain of the orb-web building spider Uloborus diversus. First, they use immunohistochemistry detection of synapsin to mark and reconstruct the neuropils of the brain of six specimens and they generate a standard brain by averaging these brains. Onto this standard 3D brain, they plot immunohistochemical stainings of major transmitters to detect cholinergic, serotonergic, octopaminergic/taryminergic and GABAergic neurons, respectively. Further, they add information on the expression of a number of neuropeptides (Proctolin, AllatostatinA, CCAP, and FMRFamide). Based on this data and 3D reconstructions, they extensively describe the morphology of the entire synganglion, the discernible neuropils, and their neurotransmitter/neuromodulator content.

      Strengths:

      While 3D reconstruction of spider brains and the detection of some neuroactive substances have been published before, this seems to be the most comprehensive analysis so far, both in terms of the number of substances tested and the ambition to analyze the entire synganglion. Interestingly, besides the previously described neuropils, they detect a novel brain structure, which they call the tonsillar neuropil.<br /> Immunohistochemistry, imaging, and 3D reconstruction are convincingly done, and the data are extensively visualized in figures, schemes, and very useful films, which allow the reader to work with the data. Due to its comprehensiveness, this dataset will be a valuable reference for researchers working on spider brains or on the evolution of arthropod brains.

      Weaknesses:

      As expected for such a descriptive groundwork, new insights or hypotheses are limited, apart from the first description of the tonsillar neuropil. A more comprehensive labeling in the panels of the mentioned structures would help to follow the descriptions. The reconstruction of the main tracts of the brain would be a very valuable complementary piece of data.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      Artiushin et al. created the first three-dimensional atlas of a synganglion in the hackled orb-weaver spider, which is becoming a popular model for web-building behavior. Immunohistochemical analysis with an impressive array of antisera reveals subcompartments of neuroanatomical structures described in other spider species as well as two previously undescribed arachnid structures, the protocerebral bridge, hagstone, and paired tonsillar neuropils. The authors describe the spider's neuroanatomy in detail and discuss similarities and differences from other spider species. The final section of the discussion examines the homology between onychophoran and chelicerate arcuate bodies and mandibulate central bodies.

      Strengths

      The authors set out to create a detailed 3D atlas and accomplished this goal.

      Exceptional tissue clearing and imaging of the nervous system reveal the three-dimensional relationships between neuropils and some connectivity that would not be apparent in sectioned brains.

      A detailed anatomical description makes it easy to reference structures described between the text and figures.

      The authors used a large palette of antisera which may be investigated in future studies for function in the spider nervous system and may be compared across species.

      Weaknesses

      It would be useful for non-specialists if the authors would introduce each neuropil with some orientation about its function or what kind of input/output it receives, if this is known for other species. Especially those structures that are not described in other arthropods, like the opisthosomal neuropil. Are there implications for neuroanatomical findings in this paper on the understanding of how web-building behaviors are mediated by the brain?

      Likewise, where possible, it would be helpful to have some discussion of the implications of certain neurotransmitters/neuropeptides being enriched in different areas. For example, GABA would signal areas of inhibitory connections, such as inhibitory input to mushroom bodies, as described in other arthropods. In the discussion section on relationships between spider and insect midline neuropils, are there similarities in expression patterns between those described here and in insects?

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is an impressive paper that offers a much-needed 3D standardized brain atlas for the hackled-orb weaving spider Uloborus diversus, an emerging organism of study in neuroethology. The authors used a detailed immunohistological whole-mount staining method that allowed them to localize a wide range of common neurotransmitters and neuropeptides and map them on a common brain atlas. Through this approach, they discovered groups of cells that may form parts of neuropils that had not previously been described, such as the 'tonsillar neuropil', which might be part of a larger insect-like central complex. Further, this work provides unique insights into the previously underappreciated complexity of higher-order neuropils in spiders, particularly the arcuate body, and hints at a potentially important role for the mushroom bodies in vibratory processing for web-building spiders.

      Strengths:

      To understand brain function, data from many experiments on brain structure must be compiled to serve as a reference and foundation for future work. As demonstrated by the overwhelming success in genetically tractable laboratory animals, 3D standardized brain atlases are invaluable tools - especially as increasing amounts of data are obtained at the gross morphological, synaptic, and genetic levels, and as functional data from electrophysiology and imaging are integrated. Among 'non-model' organisms, such approaches have included global silver staining and confocal microscopy, MRI, and, more recently, micro-computed tomography (X-ray) scans used to image multiple brains and average them into a composite reference. In this study, the authors used synapsin immunoreactivity to generate an averaged spider brain as a scaffold for mapping immunoreactivity to other neuromodulators. Using this framework, they describe many previously known spider brain structures and also identify some previously undescribed regions. They argue that the arcuate body - a midline neuropil thought to have diverged evolutionarily from the insect central complex - shows structural similarities that may support its role in path integration and navigation.

      Having diverged from insects such as the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster over 400 million years ago, spiders are an important group for study - particularly due to their elegant web-building behavior, which is thought to have contributed to their remarkable evolutionary success. How such exquisitely complex behavior is supported by a relatively small brain remains unclear. A rich tradition of spider neuroanatomy emerged in the previous century through the work of comparative zoologists, who used reduced silver and Golgi stains to reveal remarkable detail about gross neuroanatomy. Yet, these techniques cannot uncover the brain's neurochemical landscape, highlighting the need for more modern approaches-such as those employed in the present study.

      A key insight from this study involves two prominent higher-order neuropils of the protocerebrum: the arcuate body and the mushroom bodies. The authors show that the arcuate body has a more complex structure and lamination than previously recognized, suggesting it is insect central complex-like and may support functions such as path integration and navigation, which are critical during web building. They also report strong synapsin immunoreactivity in the mushroom bodies and speculate that these structures contribute to vibratory processing during sensory feedback, particularly in the context of web building and prey localization. These findings align with prior work that noted the complex architecture of both neuropils in spiders and their resemblance (and in some cases greater complexity) compared to their insect counterparts. Additionally, the authors describe previously unrecognized neuropils, such as the 'tonsillar neuropil,' whose function remains unknown but may belong to a larger central complex. The diverse patterns of neuromodulator immunoreactivity further suggest that plasticity plays a substantial role in central circuits.

      Weaknesses:

      My major concern, however, is that some of the authors' neuroanatomical descriptions rely too heavily on inference rather than what is currently resolvable from their immunohistochemistry stains alone.

      We would like to thank the reviewers for their time and effort in carefully reading our manuscript and providing helpful feedback, and particularly for their appreciation and realistic understanding of the scope of this study and its context within the existing spider neuroanatomical literature.

      Regarding the limitations and potential additions to this study, we believe these to be well-reasoned and are in agreement. We plan to address some of these shortcomings in future publications.

      As multiple reviewers remarked, a mapping of the major tracts of the brain would be a welcome addition to understanding the neuroanatomy of U. diversus. This is something which we are actively working on and hope to provide in a forthcoming publication. Given the length of this paper as is, we considered that a treatment of the tracts would be better served as an additional paper. Likewise, mapping of the immunoreactive somata of the currently investigated targets is a component which we would like to describe as part of a separate paper, keeping the focus of the current one on neuropils, in order to leverage our aligned volumes to describe co-expression patterns, which is not as useful for the more widely dispersed somata. Furthermore, while we often see somata through immunostaining, the presence and intensity of the signal is variable among immunoreactive populations. We are finding that these populations are more consistently and comprehensively revealed thru fluorescent in situ hybridization.

      We appreciate the desire of the reviewers for further information regarding the connectivity and function of the described neuropils, and where possible we have added additional statements and references. That being said, where this context remains sparse is largely a reflection of the lack of information in the literature. This is particularly the case for functional roles for spider neuropils, especially higher order ones of the protocerebrum, which are essentially unexamined. As summarized in the quite recent update to Foelix’s Spider Neuroanatomy, a functional understanding for protocerebral neuropil is really only available for the visual pathway. Consequently, it is therefore also difficult to speak of the implications for presence or absence of particular signaling elements in these neuropils, if no further information about the circuitry or behavioral correlates are available. Finally, multiple reviewers suggested that it might be worthwhile to explore a comparison of the arcuate body layer innervation to that of the central bodies of insects, of which there is a richer literature. This is an idea which we were also initially attracted to, and have now added some lines to the discussion section. Our position on this is a cautious one, as a series of more recent comparative studies spanning many insect species using the same antibody, reveals a considerable amount of variation in central body layering even within this clade, which has given us pause in interpreting how substantive similarities and differences to the far more distant spiders would be. Still, this is an interesting avenue which merits an eventual comprehensive analysis, one which would certainly benefit from having additional examples from more spider species, in order to not overstate conclusions based on the currently limited neuroanatomical representation.

      Given our framing for the impetus to advance neuroanatomical knowledge in orb-web builders, the question of whether the present findings inform the circuitry controlling web-building is one that naturally follows. While we are unable with this dataset alone to define which brain areas mediate web-building - something which would likely be beyond any anatomical dataset lacking complementary functional data – the process of assembling the atlas has revealed structures and defined innervation patterns in previously ambiguous sectors of the spider brain, particularly in the protocerebrum. A simplistic proposal is that such regions, which are more conspicuous by our techniques and in this model species, would be good candidates for further inquiries into web-building circuitry, as their absence or oversight in past work could be attributable to the different behavioral styles of those model species. Regardless, granted that such a hypothesis cannot be readily refuted by the existing neuroanatomical literature, underscores the need to have more finely refined models of the spider brain, to which we hope that we have positively contributed to and are gratified by the reviewer’s enthusiasm for the strengths of this study.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) Brenneis 2022 has done a very nice and comprehensive study focused on the visual system - this might be worth including.

      Thank you, we have included this reference on Line 34.

      (2) L 29: When talking about "connectivity maps", the emerging connectomes based on EM data could be mentioned.

      Additional references have been added, thank you. Line 35.

      (3) L 99: Please mention that you are going to describe the brain from ventral to dorsal.

      Thank you, we have added a comment to Line 99.

      (4) L 13: is found at the posterior.

      Thank you, revised.

      (5) L 168: How did you pick those two proctolin+ somata, given that there is a lot of additional punctate signal?

      Although not visible in this image, if you scroll through the stack there is a neurite which extends from these neurons directly to this area of pronounced immunoreactivity.

      (6) Figure 1: Please add the names of the neuropils you go through afterwards.

      We have added labels for neuropils which are recognizable externally.

      (7) Figure 1 and Figure 5: Please mark the esophagus.

      Label has now been added to Figure 1. In Figure 5, the esophagus should not really be visible because these planes are just ventral to its closure.

      (8) Figure 5A: I did not see any CCAP signal where the arrow points to; same for 5B (ChAT).

      In hindsight, the CCAP point is probably too minor to be worth mentioning, so we have removed it.

      The ChAT signal pattern in 5B has been reinforced by adding a dashed circle to show its location as well.

      (9) L 249: Could the circular spot also be a tract (many tracts lack synapsin - at least in insects)?

      Yes, thank you for pointing this out – the sentence is revised (L274). We are currently further analyzing anti-tubulin volumes and it seem that indeed there are tracts which occupy these synapsin-negative spaces, although interestingly they do not tend to account for the entire space.

      (10) L 302: Help me see the "conspicuous" thing.

      Brace added to Fig. 8B, note in caption.

      (11) L 315: Please first introduce the number of the eyes and how these relate to 1{degree sign} and 2{degree sign} pathway. Are these separate pathways from separate eyes or two relay stations of one visual pathway?

      We have expanded the introduction to this section (L336). Yes, these are considered as two separate visual pathways, with a typical segregation of which eyes contribute to which pathway – although there is evidence for species-specific differences in these contributions. In the context of this atlas, we are not currently able to follow which eyes are innervating which pathway.

      (12) L 343: It seems that the tonsillar neuropil could be midline spanning (at least this is how I interpret the signal across the midline). Would it make sense to re-formulate from a paired structure to midline-spanning? Would that make it another option for being a central complex homolog?

      In the spectrum from totally midline spanning and unpaired (e.g., arcuate body (at least in adults)) to almost fully distinct and paired (e.g., mushroom bodies (although even here there is a midline spanning ‘bridge’)), we view the tonsillar to be more paired due to the oval components, although it does have a midline spanning section, particularly unambiguous just posterior to the oval sections.

      Regarding central complex homology, if the suggestion is that the tonsillar with its midline spanning component could represent the entire central complex, then this is a possibility, but it would neglect the highly innervated and layered arcuate body, which we think represent a stronger contender – at least as a component of the central complex. For this reason, we would still be partial to the possibility that the tonsillar is a part of the central complex, but not the entire complex.

      (13) L 407: ...and dorsal (..) lobe...

      Added the word ‘lobe’ to this sentence (L429).

      (14) L 620ff: Maybe mention the role of MBs in learning and memory.

      A reference has been added at L661.

      (15) L 644: In the context of arcuate body homology with the central body, I was missing a discussion of the neurotransmitters expressed in the respective parts in insects. Would that provide additional arguments?

      This is an interesting comparison to explore, and is one that we initially considered making as well. There are certainly commonalities that one could point to, particularly in trying to build the case of whether particular lobes of the arcuate body are similar to the fan-shaped or ellipsoid bodies in insects. Nevertheless, something which has given us pause is studying the more recent comparative works between insect species (Timm et al., 2021, J Comp Neuro, Homberg et al., 2023, J Comp Neuro), which also reveal a fair degree of heterogeneity in expression patterns between species – and this is despite the fact that the neuropils are unambiguously homologous. When comparing to a much more evolutionarily distant organism such as the spider, it becomes less clear which extant species should serve as the best point of comparison, and therefore we fear making specious arguments by focusing on similarities when there are also many differences. We have added some of these comments to the discussion (L699-725).

      Throughout the text, I frequently had difficulties in finding the panels right away in the structures mentioned in the text. It would help to number the panels (e.g., 6Ai, Aii, Aii,i etc) and refer to those in the text. Further, all structures mentioned in the text should be labelled with arrows/arrowheads unless they are unequivocally identified in the panel

      Thank you for the suggestion. We have adopted the additional numbering scheme for panels, and added additional markers where suggested.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) L 18: "neurotransmitter" should be pluralized.

      Thank you, revised (L18).

      (2) L 55: Missing the word "the" before "U. diversus".

      Thank you, revised (L57).

      (3) L 179: Change synaptic dense to "synapse-dense".

      Thank you, revised (L189).

      (4) L 570: "present in" would be clearer than "presented on in".

      Our intention here was to say that Loesel et al did not show slices from the subesophageal mass for CCAP, so it was ambiguous as to whether it had immunoreactivity there but they simply did not present it, or if it indeed doesn’t show signal in the subesophageal. But agreed, this is awkward phrasing which has been revised (L606-608), thank you.

      (5) L 641: It would be worth noting that the upper and lower central bodies are referred to as the fan-shaped and ellipsoid bodies in many insects.

      Thank you, this has been added in L694.

      (6) L 642: Although cited here regarding insect central body layers, Strausfeld et al. 2006 mainly describe the onychophoran brain and the evolutionary relationship between the onychophoran and chelicerate arcuate bodies. The phylogenetic relationships described here would strengthen the discussion in the section titled "A spider central complex?"

      The phylogenetic relationship of onychophorans and chelicerates remains controversial and therefore we find it tricky to use this point to advance the argument in that discussion section, as one could make opposing arguments. The homology of the arcuate body (between chelicerates, onychophorans, and mandibulates) has likewise been argued over, with this Strausfeld et al paper offering one perspective, while others are more permissive (good summary at end of Doeffinger et al., 2010). Our thought was simply to draw attention to grossly similar protocerebral neuropils in examples from distantly related arthropods, without taking a stance, as our data doesn’t really deeply advance one view over the other.

      (7) L 701- Noduli have been described in stomatopods (Thoen et al., Front. Behav. Neurosci., 2017).

      This is an important addition, thank you – it has been incorporated and cited (L766).

      (8) Antisera against DC0 (PKA-C alpha) may distinguish globuli cells from other soma surrounding the mushroom bodies, but this may be accomplished in future studies.

      Agreed, this is something we have been interested in, but have not yet acquired the antibody.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Overall, this paper is both timely and important. However, it may face some resistance from classically trained arthropod neuroanatomists due to the authors' reliance on immunohistochemistry alone. A method to visualize fiber tracts and neuropil morphology would have been a valuable and grounding complement to the dataset and can be added in future publications. Tract-tracing methods (e.g., dextran injections) would strengthen certain claims about connectivity - particularly those concerning the mushroom bodies. For delineating putative cell populations across regions, fluorescence in situ hybridization for key transcripts would offer convincing evidence, especially in the context of the arcuate body, the tonsillar neuropil, and proposed homologies to the insect central complex.

      That said, the dataset remains rich and valuable. Outlined below are a number of issues the authors may wish to address. Most are relatively minor, but a few require further clarification.

      (1) Abstract

      (a) L 12-14: The authors should frame their work as a novel contribution to our understanding of the spider brain, rather than solely as a tool or stepping stone for future studies. The opening sentences currently undersell the significance of the study.

      Thank you for your encourament! We have revised the abstract.

      (b) Rather than touting "first of its kind" in the abstract, state what was learned from this.

      Thank you, we have revised the abstract.

      (c) The abstract does not mention the major results of the study. It should state which brain regions were found. It should list all of the peptides and transmitters that were tested so that they can be discoverable in searches.

      Thank you, revised.

      (2) Introduction

      (a) L 38: There's a more updated reference for Long (2016): Long, S. M. (2021). Variations on a theme: Morphological variation in the secondary eye visual pathway across the order of Araneae. Journal of Comparative Neurology, 529(2), 259-280.

      Thank you, this has been updated (L41 and elsewhere).

      (b) L 47: While whole-mount imaging offers some benefits, a downside is the need for complete brain dissection from the cuticle, which in spiders likely damages superficial structures (such as the secondary eye pathways).

      True – we have added this caveat to the section (L48-51).

      (c) L 49-52: If making this claim, more explicit comparisons with non-web building C. saeli in terms of neuropil presence, volume, or density later in the paper would be useful.

      We do not have the data on hand to make measured comparisons of C. salei structures, and the neuropils identified in this study are not clearly identifiable in the slices provided in the literature, so would likely require new sample preparations. We’ve removed the reference to proportionality and softened this sentence slightly – we are not trying to make a strong claim, but simply state that this is a possibility.

      (3) Results

      (a) The authors should state how they accounted for autofluorescence.

      While we did not explicitly test for autofluorescence, the long process of establishing a working whole-mount immuno protocol and testing antibodies produced many examples of treated brains which did not show any substantial signal.  We have added a note to the methods section (L866).

      (b) L 69: There is some controversy in delineating the subesophageal and supraesophageal mass as the two major divisions despite its ubiquity in the literature. It might be safer to delineate the protocerebrum, deutocerebrum, and fused postoral ganglia (including the pedipalp ganglion) instead.

      Thank you for this insight, we have modified the section, section headings and Figure 1 to account for this delineation as well. We have chosen to include both ways of describing the synganglion, in order to maintain a parallel with the past literature, and to be further accessible to non-specialist readers. L73-77

      (c) L 90: It might be useful to include a justification for the use of these particular neuropeptides.

      Thank you, revised. L97-99.

      (d) L 106 - 108: It is stated that the innervation pattern of the leg neuropils is generally consistent, but from Figure 2, it seems that there are differences. The density of 5HT, Proctolin, ChAT, and FMRFamide seems to be higher in the posterior legs. AstA seems to have a broader distribution in L1 and is absent in L4.

      We would still stand by the generalization that the innervation pattern is fairly similar for each leg. The L1 neuropils tend to be bigger than the posterior legs, which might explain the difference in density. Another important aspect to keep in mind is that not all of the leg neuropils appear at the exact same imaging plane as we move from ventral to dorsal. If you scroll through the synapsin stack (ventral to dorsal), you will see that L2 and L3 appear first, followed shortly by L1, and then L4, and at the dorsal end of the subesophageal they disappear in the opposite order. The observations listed here are true for the single z-plane in Figure 2, but the fact that they don’t appear at the same time seems to mainly account for these differences. For example, if you scroll further ventrally in the AstA volume, you will see a very similar innervation appear in L4 as well, even though it is absent in the Fig. 2 plane. We plan to have these individual volumes available from a repository so that they can be individually examined to better see the signal at all levels. At the moment, the entire repository can be accessed here: https://doi.org/10.35077/ace-moo-far.

      (e) Figure 1 and elsewhere: The axes for the posterior and lateral views show Lateral and Medial. It would be more accurate to label them Left and Right. because it does not define the medial-to-lateral axis. The medial direction is correct for only one hemiganglion, and it's the opposite for the contralateral side.

      Thank you, revised.

      (f) In Figures that show particular sections, it might be helpful to include a plane in the standard brain to illustrate where that section is.

      Yes, we agree and it was our original intention. It is something we can attempt to do, but there is not much room in the corners of many of the synapsin panels, making it harder to make the 3D representation big enough to be clear.

      (g) Figure 2, 3: Presenting the z-section stack separately in B and C is awkward because it makes it seem that they are unrelated. I think it would be better to display the z160-190 directly above its corresponding z230-260 for each of the exemplars in B and C. Since there's no left-right asymmetry, a hemibrain could be shown for all examples as was done for TH in D. It's not clear why TH was presented differently.

      Thank you for this suggestion. We rearranged the figure as described, but ultimately still found the original layout to be preferrable, in part because the labelling becomes too cramped. We hope that the potential confusion of the continuity of the B and C sections will be mitigated by focusing on the z plane labels and overall shape – which should suggest that the planes are not far from each other. We trust that the form of the leg neuropils is recognizable in both B and C synapsin images, and so readers will make the connection.

      Regarding TH, this panel is apart from the rest because we were unable to register the TH volume to the standard brain because the variant of the protocol which produced good anti-TH staining conflicted with synapsin, and we could not simultaneously have adequate penetration of the synapsin signal. We did not want to align the TH panel with the others to avoid potential confusion that this was a view from the same z-plane of a registered volume, as the others are. We have added a note to the figure caption.

      (h) The locations of the labels should be consistent. The antisera are below the images in Figure 2, above in Figure 3, and to the bottom left in Figure 5. The slices are shown above in Figure 2 and below in Figure 3.

      Thank you, this has been revised for better consistency.

      (i) It is surprising to me that there is no mention of the neuronal somata visible in Figure 2 and Figure 3. A typical mapping of the brain would map the locations of the neurons, not just the neuropils.

      Our first arrangement of this paper described each immunostain individually from ventral to dorsal, including locations of the immunoreactive somata which could be observed. To aid the flow of the paper and leverage the aligned volumes to emphasize co-expression in the function divisions of the brain, we re-formulated to this current layout which is organized around neuropils. Somata locations are tricky to incorporate in this format of the paper which focuses on key z-planes or tight max projections, because the relevant immunoreactive somata are more dispersed throughout the synganglion, not always overlapping in neighboring z-planes. Further, since only a minority of the antisera we used can reveal traceable projections from the supplying somata in the whole-mount preparation, we would be quite limited in the degree to which we could integrate the specific somata mapping with expression patterns in the neuropil.  Finally, compared to immuno, which can be variable in staining intensity between somata for the same target, we find that FISH reveals these locations more clearly and comprehensively – so while we agree that this mapping would also be useful for the atlas, we would like to better provide this information in a future publication using whole-mount FISH.

      (j) L 139: There is a reference to a "brace" in Figure 3B, which does not seem to exist. There's one in Figure 3C.

      There is a smaller brace near the bottom of the TDC2 panel in Fig. 3B.

      (k) L 151 should be "3D".

      Thank you, revised (L160).

      (l) Figure 4C: It is not mentioned in the legend that the bottom inset is Proctolin without synapsin.

      Thank you, revised (L1213).

      (m) L 199: Are the authors sure this subdivision is solely on the anterior-posterior axis? Could it also be dorsal ventral? (i.e., could this be an artifact of the protocerebrum and deutocerebrum?)

      Yes, this division can be appreciated to extend somewhat in the dorsal-ventral axis and it is possible that this is the protocerebrum emerging after the deutocerebrum, although this area is largely dorsal to the obvious part of the deutocerebrum. In the horizontal planes there appears to be a boundary line which we use for this subdivision in order to assist in better describing features within this generally ventral part of the protocerebrum – referred to as “stalk” because it is thinner before the protocerebrum expands in size, dorsally. Our intention was more organizational, and as stated in the text, this area is likely heterogenous and we are not suggesting that it has a unified function, so being a visual artifact would not be excluded.

      (n) L 249: Could it also indicate large tracts projecting elsewhere?

      Yes, definitely, we have evidence that part of the space is occupied by tracts. Revised, thank you (L262).

      (o) L 281: Several investigators, including Long (2021,) noted very large and robust mushroom bodies of Nephila.

      Thank you – the point is well taken that there are examples of orb-web builders that do have appreciable mushroom bodies. We have added a note in this section (L295), giving the examples of Deinopis spinosa and Argiope trifasciata (Figure 4.20 and 4.22 in Long, 2016).

      It looks like these species make the point better than Nephila, as Long lists the mushroom body percentage of total protocerebral volume for D. spinosa as 4.18%, for A. trifasciata as 2.38%, but doesn’t give a percentage for Nephila clavipes (Figure 4.24) and only labels the mushroom bodies structures as “possible” in the figure.

      In Long (2021), Nephilidae is described as follows: “In Nephilidae, I found what could be greatly reduced medullae at the caudal end of the laminae, as well as a structure that has many physical hallmarks of reduced mushroom bodies”

      (p) L 324: If the authors were able to stain for histamine or supplement this work with a different dissection technique for the dorsal structures, the visual pathways might have been apparent, which seems like a very important set of neuropils to include in a complete brain atlas.

      Yes, for this reason histamine has been an interesting target which we have attempted to visualize, but unfortunately have not yet been able to successfully stain for in U. diversus. An additional complication is that the antibodies we have seen call for glutaraldehyde fixation, which may make them incompatible with our approach to producing robust synapsin staining throughout the brain. 

      We agree that the lack of the complete visual pathway is a substantial weakness of our preparation, and should be amended in future work, but this will likely require developing a modified approach in order to preserve these delicate structures in U. diversus.

      (q) L 331: Is this bulbous shape neuropil, or just the remains of neuropil that were not fully torn away during dissection?

      This certainly is a severed part of the primary pathway, although it seems more likely that the bulbous shape is indicative of a neuropil form, rather than just being a happenstance shape that occurred during the breakage. We have examples where the same bulbous shape appears on both sides, and in different brains. It is possible that this may be the principal eye lamina – although we did not see co-staining with expected markers in examples where it did appear, so cannot be sure.

      (r) L 354: Is tyraminergic co-staining with the protocerebral bridge enough evidence to speculate that inputs are being supplied?

      We agree that this is not compelling, and have removed the statement.

      (s) L 372: This whole structure appears to be a previously described structure in spiders, the 'protocerebral commissure'.

      We are reasonably sure that what we are calling the PCB is a distinct structure from the protocerebral bridge (PCC). In Babu and Barth’s (1984) horizontal slice (Fig. 11b), you can see the protocerebral commissure immediately adjacent to the mushroom body bridge. It is found similarly located in other species, as can be seen in the supplementary 3D files provided by Steinhoff et al., (2024).

      While not visible with synapsin in U. diversus, we likewise can make out a commissure in this area in close proximity to the mushroom body bridge using tubulin staining. What we are calling the protocerebral bridge is a structure which is much more dorsal to the protocerebral commissure, not appearing in the same planes as the MB bridge.

      (t) L 377: Do you have an intuition why the tonsillar neuropil and the protocerebral bridge would show limited immunoreactivity, while the arcuate body's is quite extensive?

      This is an interesting question. Given the degree of interconnection and the fact that multiple classes of neurons in insects will innervate both central body as well as PCB or noduli, perhaps it would be expected that expression in tonsillar and protocerebral bridge should be commensurate to the innervation by that particular neurotransmitter expressing population in the arcuate body. Apart from the fact that the arcuate body is just bigger, perhaps this points to a great role of the arcuate body for integration, whereas the tonsillar and PCB may engage in more particular processing, or be limited to certain sensory modalities.

      Interestingly, it seems that this pattern of more limited immunoreactivity in the PCB and noduli compared with the central bodies (fan-shaped/ellipsoid) also appears in insects (Kahsai et al., 2010, J Comp Neuro, Timm et al., 2021, J Comp Neuro, Homberg et al., 2023, J Comp Neuro) – particularly, with almost every target having at least some layering in the fan-shaped body (Kahsai et al., 2010, J Comp Neuro).  For example, serotoninergic innervation is fairly consistently seen in the upper and lower central bodies across insects, but its presence in the PCB or noduli is more variable – appearing in one or the other in a species-dependent manner (Homberg et al., 2023, J Comp Neuro).

      (4) Discussion

      (a) L 556: But if confocal images from slices are aligned, is the 3D shape not preserved?

      Yes, fair enough – the point we wanted to make was that there is still a limitation in z resolution depending on the thickness of the slices used, which could obscure structures, but perhaps this is too minor of a comment.

      (b) L 597: This is a very interesting result. I agree it's likely to do with the processing of mechanosensory information relevant to web activities, and the mushroom body seems like the perfect candidate for this.

      (c) L 638: Worth noting that neuropil volume vs density of synapses might play a role in this, as the literature is currently a bit ambiguous with regards to the former.

      Thank you, noted (L689).

      (d) L 651: The latter seems far more plausible.

      Agreed, though the presence of mushroom bodies appears to be variable in spiders, so we didn’t want to take a strong stance, here.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, Ho et al. hypothesised that autoreactive T cells receiving enhanced TCR signals during positive selection in the thymus are primed for generating effector and memory T cells. They used CD5 as a marker for TCR signal strength during their selection at the double positive stage. Supporting their hypothesis, naïve T cells with high CD5 proliferated better and expressed markers of T cell activation compared to naïve T cells with lower levels of CD5. Furthermore, results showed that autoimmune diabetes can be efficiently induced after the transfer of naïve CD5 hi T cells compared to CD5 lo T cells. This provided solid evidence in support of their hypothesis that T cells receiving higher basal TCR signaling are primmed to develop into effector T cells. However, all functional characterisation was done on the cells in the periphery and CD5 hi cells in the peripheral lymphoid compartment can receive tonic TCR signaling. Hence, the function of CD5 hi T cells might not be related to development and programming in the thymus. This is a major hurdle in the interpretation of the results and justifying the title of the study. The evidence that transgenic PTPN22 expression could not regulate T cell activation in CD5 hi TCR transgenic autoreactive T cells was weak. Studying T cell development in TCR transgenic mice and looking at TCR downstream signaling could be misleading due to transgenic expression of TCR at all developmental stages.

      Strengths:

      (1) Demonstrating that CD5 hi cells in naïve CD8 T cell compartment express markers of T cell activation, proliferation and cytotoxicity at a higher level

      (2) Using gene expression analysis, study showed CD5 hi cells among naïve CD8 T cells are transcriptionally poised to develop into effector or memory T cells.

      (3) Study showed that CD5 hi cells have higher basal TCR signaling compared to CD5 lo T cells.

      (4) Key evidence of pathogenicity of autoreactive CD5 hi T cells was provided by doing the adoptive transfer of CD5 hi and CD5 lo CD8 T cells into NOD Rag1-/- mice and comparing them.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Although CD5 can be used as a marker for self-reactivity and T cell signal strength during thymic development, it can also be regulated in the periphery by tonic TCR signaling or when T cells are activated by its cognate antigen. Hence, TCR signals in the periphery could also prime the T cells towards effector/memory differentiation. That's why from the evidence presented here it cannot be concluded that this predisposition of T cells towards effector/memory differentiation is programmed due to higher reactivity towards self-MHC molecules in the thymus, as stated in the title.

      (2) Flow cytometry data needs to be revisited for the gating strategy, biological controls and interpretation.

      (3) Evidence linking CD5 hi cells to more effector phenotype using gene enrichment scores is very weak.

      (4) Experiments done in this study did not address why CD5 hi T cells could be negatively regulated in NOD mice when PTPN22 is overexpressed resulting in protection from diabetes but the same cannot be achieved in NOD8.3 mice.

      (5) Experimental evidence provided to show that PTPN22 overexpression does not regulate TCR signaling in NOD8.3 T cells is weak.

      (6) TCR sequencing analysis does not conclusively show that CD5 hi population is linked with autoreactive T cells. Doing single-cell RNAseq and TCR seq analysis would have helped address this question.

      (7) When analysing data from CD5 hi T cells from the pancreatic lymph node, it is difficult to discriminate if the phenotype is just because of T cells that would have just encountered the cognate antigen in the draining lymph node or if it is truly due to basal TCR signaling.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Review #1 (Public review):

      Figures 1 through 4 contain data that largely recapitulate published findings (Fulton et al., 2015; Lee et al., 2024; Swee et al., 2016; Dong et al., 2021); it is noted that there is value in confirming phenotypic differences between naive CD5lo and CD5hi CD8 T cells in the NOD background. It is important to contextualize the data while being wary of making parallels with results obtained from CD5lo and CD5hi CD4 T cells. There should also be additional attention paid to the wording in the text describing the data (e.g., the authors assert that, in Figure 4C, the “CD5hi group exhibited higher percentages of CD8+ T cells producing TNF-α, IFN-γ and IL-2” though there is no difference in IL-2 nor consistent differences in TNF-α between the CD5lo and CD5hi population<sup>hi</sup> CD8<sup>+</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells have been previously characterized in other genetic backgrounds. In our study, we aimed to confirm and extend these observations specifically in the autoimmune-prone NOD background, which had not been systematically addressed. Additionally, we carefully reviewed the text describing Figure 4C and revised the wording to accurately reflect the observed data (line 263-264). Specifically, we now state that the CD5<sup>hi</sup> group exhibited higher levels of IFN-γ and a trend toward increased TNF-α, while IL-2 production did not show a significant difference.

      The comparison of CD5 across thymocyte populations is cautioned due to variation in developmental stages, particularly in transgenic models. The reported differences may reflect maturation stages rather than self-reactivity.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s important point regarding the interpretation of CD5 levels across thymocyte subsets. In our revised manuscript (lines 455–471), we have added clarification that CD5 expression in DN and DP subsets reflects pre-TCR and TCR signaling events during thymic development. We also acknowledge that differences in maturation stages, especially in the NOD8.3 transgenic model, may influence CD5 expression. We now discuss this caveat and interpret our results with caution, particularly emphasizing that our data support but do not sufficiently define their differential self-reactivity.

      The conclusion that PTPN22 overexpression does not inhibit the diabetogenic potential of CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells is potentially confounded by differences between polyclonal and TCR transgenic systems.

      We thank the reviewer for raising this concern. We acknowledge that this system introduces confounders due to differences in precursor frequencies and clonal expansion compared to polyclonal repertoires. These differences may affect the responsiveness to phosphatase-mediated attenuation of signaling. Therefore, while our results support that high-affinity autoreactive CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells may be less sensitive to PTPN22 overexpression, we do not claim that this finding generalizes to all autoreactive CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells. Rather, it highlights a potential inability of peripheral tolerance in T cells with strong intrinsic self-reactivity.

      TCR sequencing data shows variability; is this representative of the overall repertoire?

      We appreciate the reviewer’s comment. We acknowledge that data from bulk TCR sequencing has potential limitations, including variability across experiments and limited resolution at the clonotype level. To improve representativeness and reduce sampling bias, we performed TCR repertoire analysis in two independent experiments. In each experiment, naïve CD5<sup>hi</sup> CD8<sup>+</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells were sorted from pooled peripheral lymph nodes of at least 20 individual NOD mice per group. This approach allowed us to capture a broader range of clonotypes and ensured that the resulting repertoire profiles reflect the characteristics of the overall CD5<sup>hi</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup> populations, rather than isolated outliers. Despite some variability, we observed consistent trends in key features, such as shorter CDR3β length, altered TRAV/TRBV usage and reduced diversity in the CD5<sup>hi</sup> subset across both experiments. To enhance resolution and directly assess clonotype-specific reactivity, we plan to perform single-cell RNA and TCR sequencing in future studies, as noted in the revised Discussion (lines 466–471).

      Clarifications are requested regarding naive gating, controls, gMFI reporting, and missing methods.

      We thank the reviewer for these specific suggestions. We have revised figure legends to better describe gating strategies and included appropriate controls in Figures or Supplementary Figures. Regarding gMFI reporting, we have now shown in the figure legends whether values are reported as gMFI. Additionally, we have added the missing methods for cytokine staining, EdU incorporation, overlapped count matrix construction and TCR repertoire diversity metrics.

      Review #2 (Public review):

      Summary Comment:

      The study is nicely performed, but the definition of naive T cells using only CD44 and CD62L may be oversimplified. CD5hi naive T cells express higher CD44 than CD5lo cells.

      We thank the reviewer for the critical evaluation and thoughtful comment. As noted, we defined naïve CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells using a well-established gating strategy based on CD44<sup>lo</sup> and CD62L<sup>hi</sup> expression, consistent with previous studies (Immunity. 2010; 32(2):214–26; Nat Immunol. 2015; 16(1):107–17). We acknowledge that CD44 is expressed along a continuum, and indeed, within the naïve gate, CD5<sup>hi</sup> CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells exhibited slightly higher CD44 levels compared to their CD5<sup>lo</sup> counterparts. However, both subsets remained well below the CD44 expression observed in conventional effector/memory CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells, supporting their classification as naïve. To further validate this, we assessed additional markers associated with activation and memory differentiation, including CD69, PD-1, KLRG1 and CD25. These analyses confirmed that the sorted CD5<sup>hi</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup> populations retained a phenotypically naïve profile while exhibiting meaningful differences in baseline activation readiness (Figure 1F).

      Review #3 (Public review):

      CD5 can be regulated by peripheral signals. Therefore, it cannot be concluded that predisposition to effector/memory differentiation is solely programmed in the thymus.

      We thank the reviewer for this important point. We agree that CD5 expression can be dynamically regulated in the periphery by tonic TCR signals and antigen encounter, as also reflected in our own data that cells with high CD5 level display elevated activation potential upon encountering antigen (e.g., Figure 3L). To minimize the confounding effects of pre-existing peripheral activation, we performed an adoptive T cell transfer experiment (Figure 4). In this experiment, naïve CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD<sup>+</sup>and CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells were sorted from the peripheral lymph nodes of young (6–8-week-old) prediabetic NOD mice and transferred into NOD Rag1<sup>–/–</sup> recipients. After 4 weeks, we compared the disease phenotypes and functional profiles of CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells from these two groups. This approach allowed us to evaluate the stability and differentiation capacity of CD5<sup>hi</sup> versus CD5<sup>lo</sup> cells in a lymphopenic environment, while excluding the possibility that the observed differences were due to already activated CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells at the time of isolation. We have revised the Discussion (lines 440–450) to acknowledge these experimental limitations and clarify that, while our findings demonstrate functional differences between CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells, we cannot fully exclude contributions from peripheral influences.

      Experiments do not explain why PTPN22 overexpression protects in polyclonal T cells but not in NOD8.3 mice.

      We appreciate this critical comment. Our findings support that autoreactive T cells with high-affinity TCRs as in NOD8.3 mice receive strong signaling that even PTPN22 overexpression is insufficient to attenuate their activation and effector function. We acknowledge that further mechanistic studies are needed to fully elucidate the differential effects of PTPN22 in polyclonal versus TCR-transgenic settings.

      Evidence that PTPN22 does not regulate TCR signaling in NOD8.3 T cells is weak.

      We thank the reviewer for this critical comment. Our data show that NOD8.3 T cells with an intrinsic high CD5-associated self-reactivity are more resistant to transgenic Pep-mediated change in the phosphorylation status of TCR signaling molecules CD3ζ and Erk and CD5 expression (Figure 6, B-D). However, we agree that additional functional assays would strengthen this conclusion.

      TCR sequencing does not conclusively link CD5hi cells with autoreactivity; single-cell analysis is needed.

      We agree with this critical comment. Bulk TCR sequencing revealed repertoire features associated with autoreactivity, but cannot definitively link specific TCRs to function. We have acknowledged this in the discussion (lines 466–471) and highlighted plans to perform single-cell analysis.

      CD5hi cells in the PLNs may reflect antigen exposure rather than basal signaling.

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful comment. As also noted in Figure 3L, CD5 expression can be influenced by peripheral tonic TCR signals and recent antigen exposure. To minimize the contribution of peripheral activation, we particularly characterized naïve CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells isolated from the peripheral lymph nodes of young (6–8-week-old) prediabetic NOD mice before the onset of overt autoimmunity. Furthermore, we performed an adoptive transfer experiment (Figure 4) using sorted naïve CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells from these mice and characterized their disease phenotype after 4 weeks in lymphopenic NOD Rag1<sup>–/–</sup> recipients and evaluated the effector function of CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells. This approach allowed us to compare the differentiation potential of these subsets in a controlled setting, independent of their activation status at the time of isolation. We have revised the Discussion (lines 440–450) to emphasize that, while our data support functional differences between CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells, we cannot fully exclude the role of peripheral cues in shaping CD5 expression.

      Provide proper gating controls and representative flow plots.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. We have revised figure legends to better describe gating strategies and included representative flow cytometry plots and appropriate gating controls in Figures or Supplementary Figures.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The authors):

      (1) The figure presentation is inconsistent and the labels/font are often too small to read easily.

      As Reviewer suggested, the figure presentation has been revised for consistency. Labels and fonts have been adjusted for improved readability. Specific figures that were difficult to read have been reformatted with larger fonts and clearer legends.

      (2) A careful review of the text to ensure clarity of the content is suggested (e.g., “gratitude” at line 91, “were generally lied” at line 123).

      Thanks for Reviewer’s comments. The text has been carefully reviewed for clarity and grammatical accuracy. Corrections have been made, including changing “gratitude” to “magnitude” (line 47) and “were generally lied” to “fell between” (line 79).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) The definition of naïve T cells based solely on CD44low and CD62Lhigh staining may be oversimplistic. Indeed, even within this definition, naïve CD5high CD8 T cells express much higher levels of CD44 than CD5low CD8 T cells.

      Thanks for Reviewer’s comments. We used a literature-supported gating strategy (Immunity. 2010; 32(2):214–26; Nat Immunol. 2015; 16(1):107–17) to define naïve T cells based on CD44<sup>low</sup> and CD62L<sup>high</sup> expression. It is important to note that CD44 expression exists along a continuum. While we were initially surprised to observe that CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells expressed relatively higher levels of CD44 than CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells within the naïve gate, both populations still exhibited significantly lower CD44 expression compared to conventional effector/memory CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells. To further validate the distinction between CD5<sup>hi</sup> and CD5 subsets, we also examined additional markers such as CD69, PD1, KLRG1 and CD25, which supported their phenotypic differences within the naïve compartment (Figure 1F).

      (2) Figure 1G should show the proportion of IGRP-tetramer+ in the three groups of CD8 T cells. Additionally, it would be useful to assess reactivity against a pool of other islet autoantigens using a similar strategy.

      As suggested by the reviewer, the revised manuscript now includes additional data showing the proportion of IGRP-tetramer+ cells (Supplementary Figure 1D), as well as reactivity against another islet autoantigen, insulin-1/insulin-2 (Insulin B15–23) (Supplementary Figure 1E). The description of these results, including the proportions of IGRP-tetramer<sup>+</sup> and Insulin B15–23<sup>+</sup> CD8<sup>+</sup>Tcells, has been added to lines 126–129 of the revised manuscript.

      (3) The resolution of Figure 2 is suboptimal and at places poorly visible. Figure 2D is stated to show “two significant pathways stand out.” In fact, the data are barely significant, and the authors may want to correct their statement.

      The resolution of Figure 2 has been improved. As Reviewer suggested, the text has been revised to state “two potential pathways stand out” (line 187) instead of “two significant pathways stand out”.

      (4) Figure 3C-F and 3H, showing fold change over baseline values would be much easier for the reader to grasp the data.

      As Reviewer suggested, data in Figures 3C-F and 3H now are shown in fold change over baseline values for clarity. Baseline gMFI is the mean of each group (total CD<sup>+</sup> , CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>) at 0 μg/ml anti-CD3, with fold changes calculated for stimulation conditions (0.625-10 μg/ml anti-CD3). The figure legend has been updated accordingly.

      (5) Figure 4A, it would be much more valuable to show the diabetes frequency upon transfer of CD25- CD4 T cells alone and upon transfer of CD5high CD8 T cells alone. The word “spontaneous” in the Figure 4A legend seems inappropriate.

      Thanks for the Reviewer’s comment. We apologize for not including the data for the CD25 CD4<sup>+</sup> T cell transfer group in the original manuscript. While this group was part of our initial experimental design, we had considered it a control group and unintentionally omitted it from the figure. The revised manuscript now includes this group in Figure 4A. In addition, the term “spontaneous” has been replaced with “diabetes incidence” in the Figure 4A legend and manuscript (line 248). Regarding the suggestion to assess CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells transfer alone, we appreciate the Reviewer’s point. However, previous studies have shown that CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells alone are not effective and sufficient to induce diabetes in adoptive transfer models, and that effective β-cell destruction typically requires both CD4<sup>+</sup> and CD8<sup>+</sup> T cell subsets. For instance, Christianson et al. (1993) demonstrated that enriched CD8<sup>+</sup> T cells from NOD mice fail to transfer diabetes on their own, while CD4<sup>+</sup> T cells—particularly from diabetic donors—can induce disease only under specific conditions and are significantly potentiated by co-transfer of CD8<sup>+</sup>cells. These findings have contributed to the widely available standard of co-transferring both subsets when studying diabetogenic potential in NOD models (Diabetes. 1993;42(1):44–55).

      (6) Line 257-258, please remove “indicating superior in vivo proliferation by the CD5hi subset.” Indeed, several other possibilities may explain the phenotype, including survival, migration, etc.

      As Reviewer suggested, the phrase “indicating superior in vivo proliferation by the CD5<sup>hi</sup> subset” has been replaced with “implying increased expansion and activation/effector potential” (line 261).

      (7) Figure 5A, it is unclear to this referee what is the significance of CD5 and pCD3zeta expression on DN thymocytes. Do these cells express rearranged alpha/beta TCR? Is it signaling through pre-TCRalpha/TCRbeta pairs?

      Thanks a lot for this important question. In the revised manuscript, we have expanded the discussion (line 455–471) to address the developmental significance of CD5 and pCD3ζ expression on DN thymocytes. CD5 expression at this stage reflects pre-TCR signaling strength during early selection, which occurs following successful TCRβ rearrangement. The associated phosphorylation of CD3ζ indicates activation of downstream signaling through the pre-TCRα/TCRβ complex. As discussed in the revised text, these early signals play a critical role in determining lineage progression and self-reactivity tuning. We now acknowledge that signaling at the DN stage occurs through the pre-TCRα/TCRβ heterodimer, not a fully rearranged αβ TCR, and that CD5 expression serves as a marker of the strength of these initial pre-selection signals (Sci Signal. 2022;15(736):eabj9842.). These developmental checkpoints are essential for calibrating TCR sensitivity and ensuring proper thymocyte maturation. This has been clarified in the revised discussion (line 455–471).

      (8) Figure 5F, could the DP TCRbeta- CD69- thymocytes from 8.3-TCR NOD mice already express low levels of the self-reactive TCR at this stage to explain their high expression of CD5? Addressing the question experimentally would be useful.

      Thanks a lot for this useful comment. According to a review by Huseby et al. (2022), expression of a functional TCRβ chain begins at the DN3 stage, initiating progression through the β-selection checkpoint. This is followed by TRAV locus recombination, resulting in the generation of αβ TCR-expressing double-positive 1 (DP-1) thymocytes. At the DP-1 stage, the quality of TCR signaling driven by self-pMHC interactions governs both positive and negative selection, as well as the development of nonconventional T cell lineages. We hypothesize that in transgenic NOD8.3 mice, which express pre-rearranged Tcra and Tcrb transgenes derived from the islet-reactive CD8<sup>+</sup>T cell clone NY8.3, thymocytes undergo allelic exclusion and lack the clonal diversity seen in non-transgenic mice. As a result, NOD8.3 thymocytes may receive strong TCR signals from early developmental stages (DN3 and DP-1) even without undergoing normal selection checkpoints. While the elevated TCR signal observed in NOD8.3 is indeed artificial, this model provides a unique system to test our hypothesis—namely, whether a strongly self-reactive TCR can generate high basal signaling during thymic development that overrides the negative regulatory effects of phosphatases like Pep. This possibility has been acknowledged in the revised Discussion section, along with a plan to validate the hypothesis experimentally (line 455–471).

      (9) Figure 7, single-cell TCR-seq would be much more appropriate to tackle the question of self-reactivity of CD5hi vs. CD5low CD8 T cells.

      Thanks a lot for this useful comment. The limitations of bulk TCR-seq are acknowledged, and single-cell TCR-seq is proposed as a future direction (line 455–471).

      Note, for Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors) (7) (8) (9), the discussion paragraphs are included to address the reviewers’ questions (line 455–471).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) Positive controls (activated T cells from PLN or spleen), gating controls (whole naïve T cells), and representative flow-cytometry plots are needed for T-bet, EOMES, GzmB, and cytokine staining in Figure 1.

      As Reviewer suggested, we added representative gating controls for T-bet, EOMES, GzmB and cytokine staining in Supplementary Figure 1 of revised manuscript.

      (2) For Figure 1F, MFI for activation markers for the CD44hiCD62Llo cells should be provided for the comparison of PLN data.

      As Reviewer suggested, MFI data for these markers have been included in Figure 1F of revised manuscript.

      (3) In many places and figure legends, it is not mentioned from which organ cells were collected, i.e., spleen or PLN.

      As Reviewer suggested, the origin of cells for each experiment has been explicitly indicated in the figure legends or figure content to ensure clarity.

      (4) In the pancreatic lymph node, autoreactive T cells might be upregulating CD5 because they are encountering antigens. This should be addressed in the discussion.

      As Reviewer suggested, this issue has been included in the discussion of revised manuscript (line 440-450).

      (5) It is not clear if T cells from the spleen and PLN were stimulated to detect the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines.

      Thanks for the critical comment. The stimulation protocol and cytokine staining method have been added to the Supplementary material’s Supplementary methods section Cytokine staining in revised manuscript.

      (6) Figure 4C-D: It is not clear if analysis was done on naïve T cells or if they were stimulated.

      Thanks for the comment. Additionally, the stimulation and cytokine staining methods used in Figure 4C-D have been described in detail in the Supplementary Materials section Cytokine staining of revised manuscript.

      (7) IGRP gating in Figure 4F should be revisited with negative controls.

      Thanks for the critical comment. Negative controls have been added and used to adjust IGRP gating, and this is now mentioned in the figure legend of revised manuscript.

      (8) Interpretation that only CD5hi cells form a central memory T cell population (Figure 4F) could be misleading.

      Thanks for this valuable comment. We agree with that in conventional CD8<sup>+</sup> T cell immune responses, both CD5<sup>hi</sup> and CD5<sup>lo</sup> subsets have the potential to differentiate into central memory T cells. In our experimental approach, we adoptively transferred sorted CD5<sup>hi</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup> or CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>cells into Rag1<sup>-/-</sup> recipients and specifically analyzed PLNs four weeks after transfer. Using CD44 and CD62L expression as conventional markers for central memory T cells, we barely observed a CD44<sup>hi</sup>CD62L<sup>hi</sup> population in CD5<sup>lo</sup>CD8<sup>+</sup>transferred group. Based on these results, we stated: “This analysis underscores that the central memory T cell population and the frequency of islet autoantigen-specific CD8<sup>+</sup>T cells are higher in the CD5<sup>hi</sup> transferred subset within the PLNs, implying more robust immune responses initiated by the CD5<sup>hi</sup>cells” (line 272–274). Importantly, we did not intend to imply that only CD5<sup>hi</sup> cells can form central memory T cells, but rather that they were more enriched for this phenotype under the specific conditions and time point analyzed. 

      (9) IL-2 gating representative plot should be provided for Figure 5A.

      As Reviewer suggested, a representative IL-2 gating plot has been included in the revised Supplementary Figure 3B.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The main finding of this work is that microbiota impacts lifespan though regulating the expression of a gut hormone (Tk) which in turn acts on its receptor expressed on neurons. This conclusion is robust and based on a number of experimental observations, carefully using techniques in fly genetics and physiology: 1) microbiota regulates Tk expression, 2) lifespan reduction by microbiota is absent when Tk is knocked down in gut (specifically in the EEs), 3) Tk knockdown extends lifespan and this is recapitulated by knockdown of a Tk receptor in neurons. These key conclusions are very convincing. Additional data are presented detailing the relationship between Tk and insulin/IGF signalling and Akh in this context. These are two other important endocrine signalling pathways in flies. The presentation and analysis of the data are excellent.

      There are only a few experiments or edits that I would suggest as important to confirm or refine the conclusions of this manuscript. These are:

      (1) When comparing the effects of microbiota (or single bacterial species) in different genetic backgrounds or experimental conditions, I think it would be good to show that the bacterial levels are not impacted by the other intervention(s). For example, the lifespan results observed in Figure 2A are consistent with Tk acting downstream of the microbes but also with Tk RNAi having an impact on the microbiota itself. I think this simple, additional control could be done for a few key experiments. Similarly, the authors could compare the two bacterial species to see if the differences in their effects come from different ability to colonise the flies.

      (2) The effect of Tk RNAi on TAG is opposite in CR and Ax or CR and Ap flies, and the knockdown shows an effect in either case (Figure 2E, Figure 3D). Why is this? Better clarification is required.

      (3) With respect to insulin signalling, all the experiments bar one indicate that insulin is mediating the effects of Tk. The one experiment that does not is using dilpGS to knock down TkR99D. Is it possible that this driver is simply not resulting in an efficient KD of the receptor? I would be inclined to check this, but as a minimum I would be a bit more cautious with the interpretation of these data.

      (4) Is it possible to perform at least one lifespan repeat with the other Tk RNAi line mentioned? This would further clarify that there are no off-target effects that can account for the phenotypes.

      There are a few other experiments that I could suggest as I think they could enrich the current manuscript, but I do not believe they are essential for publication:

      (5) The manuscript could be extended with a little more biochemical/cell biology analysis. For example, is it possible to look at Tk protein levels, Tk levels in circulation, or even TkR receptor activation or activation of its downstream signalling pathways? Comparing Ax and CR or Ap and CR one would expect to find differences consistent with the model proposed. This would add depth to the genetic analysis already conducted. Similarly, for insulin signalling - would it be possible to use some readout of the pathway activity and compare between Ax and CR or Ap and CR?

      (6) The authors use a pan-acetyl-K antibody but are specifically interested in acetylated histones. Would it be possible to use antibodies for acetylated histones? This would have the added benefit that one can confirm the changes are not in the levels of histones themselves.

      (7) I think the presentation of the results could be tightened a bit, with fewer sections and one figure per section.

      Significance:

      The main contribution of this manuscript is the identification of a mechanism that links the microbiota to lifespan. This is very exciting and topical for several reasons:

      (1) The microbiota is very important for overall health but it is still unclear how. Studying the interaction between microbiota and health is an emerging, growing field, and one that has attracted a lot of interest, but one that is often lacking in mechanistic insight. Identifying mechanisms provides opportunities for therapies. The main impact of this study comes from using the fruit fly to identify a mechanism.

      (2) It is very interesting that the authors focus on an endocrine mechanism, especially with the clear clinical relevance of gut hormones to human health recently demonstrated with new, effective therapies (e.g. Wegovy).

      (3) Tk is emerging as an important fly hormone and this study adds a new and interesting dimension by placing TK between microbiota and lifespan.

      I think the manuscript will be of great interest to researchers in ageing, human and animal physiology and in gut endocrinology and gut function.

    2. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Marcu et al. demonstrate a gut-neuron axis that is required for the lifespan-shortening effects mediated by gut bacteria. They show that the presence of commensal bacteria-particularly Acetobacter pomorum-promotes Tk expression in the gut, which then binds to neuronal tachykinin receptors to shorten lifespan. Tk has also recently been reported to extend lifespan via adipokinetic hormone (Akh) signaling (Ahrentløv et al., Nat Metab 7, 2025), but the mechanism here appears distinct. The lifespan shortening by Ap via Tk seems to be partially dependent on foxo and independent of both insulin signaling and Akh-mediated lipid mobilization.

      Although the detailed mechanistic link to lifespan is not fully resolved, the experiment and its results clearly show the involvement of the molecules tested. This work adds a valuable dimension to our growing understanding of how gut bacteria influence host longevity. However, there are some points that should be addressed.

      (1) Tk+ EEC activity should be assessed directly, rather than relying solely on transcript levels. Approaches such as CaLexA or GCaMP could be used.

      (2) In Line243, the manuscript states that the reporter activity was not increased in the posterior midgut. However, based on the presented results in Fig4E, there is seemingly not apparent regional specificity. A more detailed explanation is necessary.

      (3) If feasible, assessing foxo activation would add mechanistic depth. This could be done by monitoring foxo nuclear localization or measuring the expression levels of downstream target genes.

      (4) Fig1C uses Adh for normalization. Given the high variability of the result, the authors should (1) check whether Adh expression levels changed via bacterial association and/or (2) compare the results using different genes as internal standard.

      (5) While the difficulty of maintaining lifelong axenic conditions is understandable, it may still be feasible to assess the induction of Tk (i.e.. Tk transcription or EE activity upregulation) by the microbiome on males.

      (6) We also had some concerns regarding the wording of the title.<br /> Fig6B and C suggests that TkR86C, in addition to TkR99D, may be involved in the A. pomorum-lifespan interaction. Consider revising the title to refer more generally to the "tachykinin receptor" rather than only TkR99D.<br /> The difference between "aging" and "lifespan" should also be addressed. While the study shows a role for Tk in lifespan, assessment of aging phenotypes (e.g. Climbing assay, ISC proliferation) beyond the smurf assay is required to make conclusions about aging.

      (7) The statement in Line 82 that EEs express 14 peptide hormones should be supported with an appropriate reference, if available.

      Significance:

      General assessment: The main strength of this study is the careful and extensive lifespan analyses, which convincingly demonstrate the role of gut microbiota in regulating longevity. The authors clarify an important aspect of how microbial factors contribute to lifespan control. The main limitation is that the study primarily confirms the involvement of previously reported signaling pathways, without identifying novel molecular players or previously unrecognized mechanisms of lifespan regulation.

      Advance: The lifespan-shortening effect of Acetobacter pomorum (Ap) has been reported previously, as has the lifespan-shortening effect of Tachykinin (Tk). However, this study is the first to link these two factors mechanistically, which represents a significant and original contribution to the field. The advance is primarily mechanistic, providing new insight into how microbial cues converge on host signaling pathways to influence ageing.

      Audience: This work will be of particular interest to a specialized audience of basic researchers in ageing biology. It will also attract interest from microbiome researchers who are investigating host-microbe interactions and their physiological consequences. The findings will be useful as a conceptual framework for future mechanistic studies in this area.

      Field of expertise: Drosophila ageing, lifespan, microbiome, metabolism

    3. Author response:

      (1) General Statements

      The goal of our study was to mechanistically connect microbiota to host longevity. We have done so using a combination of genetic and physiological experiments, which outline a role for a neuroendocrine relay mediated by the intestinal neuropeptide Tachykinin, and its receptor TkR99D in neurons. We also show a requirement for these genes in metabolic and healthspan effects of microbiota.

      The referees' comments suggest they find the data novel and technically sound. We have added data in response to numerous points, which we feel enhance the manuscript further, and we have clarified text as requested. Reviewer #3 identified an error in Figure 4, which we have rectified. We felt that some specific experiments suggested in review would not add significant further depth, as we articulate below.

      Altogether our reviewers appear to agree that our manuscript makes a significant contribution to both the microbiome and ageing fields, using a large number of experiments to mechanistically outline the role(s) of various pathways and tissues. We thank the reviewers for their positive contributions to the publication process.

      (2) Description of the planned revisions

      Reviewer #2:

      Not…essential for publication…is it possible to look at Tk protein levels?

      We have acquired a small amount of anti-TK antibody and we will attempt to immunostain guts associated with A. pomorum and L. brevis. We are also attempting the equivalent experiment in mouse colon reared with/without a defined microbiota. These experiments are ongoing, but we note that the referee feels that the manuscript is a publishable unit whether these stainings succeed or not.

      (3) Description of the revisions that have already been incorporated in the transferred manuscript

      Reviewer #1:

      Can the authors state in the figure legends the numbers of flies used for each lifespan and whether replicates have been done?

      We have incorporated the requested information into legends for lifespan experiments.

      Do the interventions shorten lifespan relative to the axenic cohort? Or do they prevent lifespan extension by axenic conditions? Both statements are valid, and the authors need to be consistent in which one they use to avoid confusing the reader.

      We read these statements differently. The only experiment in which a genetic intervention prevented lifespan extension by axenic conditions is neuronal TkR86C knockdown (Figure 6B-C). Otherwise, microbiota shortened lifespan relative to axenic conditions, and genetic knockdowns extend blocked this effect (e.g. see lines 131-133). We have ensured that the framing is consistent throughout, with text edited at lines 198-199, 298-299, 311-312, 345-347, 407-408, 424-425, 450, 497-503.

      TkRNAi consistently reduces lipid levels in axenic flies (Figs 2E, 3D), essentially phenocopying the loss of lipid stores seen in control conventionally reared (CR) flies relative to control axenic. This suggests that the previously reported role of Tk in lipid storage - demonstrated through increased lipid levels in TkRNAi flies (Song et al (2014) Cell Rep 9(1): 40) - is dependent on the microbiota. In the absence of the microbiota TkRNAi reduces lipid levels. The lack of acknowledgement of this in the text is confusing

      We have added text at lines 219-222 to address this point. We agree that this effect is hard to interpret biologically, since expressing RNAi in axenics has no additional effect on Tk expression (Figure S7). Consequently we can only interpret this unexpected effect as a possible off-target effect of RU feeding on TAG, specific to axenic flies. However, this possibility does not void our conclusion, because an off-target dimunition of TAG cannot explain why CR flies accumulate TAG following Tk<sup>RNAi</sup> induction. We hope that our added text clarifies.

      I have struggled to follow the authors logic in ablating the IPCs and feel a clear statement on what they expected the outcome to be would help the reader.

      We have added the requested statement at lines 423-424, explaining that we expected the IPC ablation to render flies constitutively long-lived and non-responsive to A pomorum.

      Can the authors clarify their logic in concluding a role for insulin signalling, and qualify this conclusion with appropriate consideration of alternative hypotheses?

      We have added our logic at lines 449-454. In brief, we conclude involvement for insulin signalling because FoxO mutant lifespan does not respond to Tk<sup>RNAi</sup>, and diminishes the lifespan-shortening effect of A. pomorum. However, we cannot state that the effects are direct because we do not have data that mechanistically connects Tk/TkR99D signalling directly in insulin-producing cells. The current evidence is most consistent with insulin signalling priming responses to microbiota/Tk/TkR99D, as per the newly-added text.

      Typographical errors

      We have remedied the highlighted errors, at lines 128-140.

      Reviewer #2:

      it would be good to show that the bacterial levels are not impacted [by TkRNAi]

      We have quantified CFUs in CR flies upon ubiquitous TkRNAi (Figure S5), finding that the RNAi does not affect bacterial load. New text at lines 138-139 articulates this point.

      The effect of Tk RNAi on TAG is opposite in CR and Ax or CR and Ap flies, and the knockdown shows an effect in either case (Figure 2E, Figure 3D). Why is this?

      As per response to Reviewer #1, we have added text at lines 219-222 to address this point.

      Is it possible to perform at least one lifespan repeat with the other Tk RNAi line mentioned?

      We have added another experiment showing longevity upon knockdown in conventional flies, using an independent TkRNAi line (Figure S3).

      Reviewer #3:

      In Line243, the manuscript states that the reporter activity was not increased in the posterior midgut. However, based on the presented results in Fig4E, there is seemingly not apparent regional specificity. A more detailed explanation is necessary.

      We thank the reviewer sincerely for their keen eye, which has highlighted an error in the previous version of the figure. In revisiting this figure we have noticed, to our dismay, that the figures for GFP quantification were actually re-plots of the figures for (ac)K quantification. This error led to the discrepancy between statistics and graphics, which thankfully the reviewer noticed. We have revised the figure to remedy our error, and the statistics now match the boxplots and results text.

      Fig1C uses Adh for normalization. Given the high variability of the result, the authors should (1) check whether Adh expression levels changed via bacterial association

      We selected Adh on the basis of our RNAseq analysis, which showed it was not different between AX and CV guts, whereas many commonly-used “housekeeping” genes were. We have now added a plot to demonstrate (Figure S2).

      The statement in Line 82 that EEs express 14 peptide hormones should be supported with an appropriate reference

      We have added the requested reference (Hung et al, 2020) at line 86.

      (4) Description of analyses that authors prefer not to carry out

      Reviewer #1:

      I'd encourage the authors to provide lifespan plots that enable comparison between all conditions

      We have avoided this approach because the number of survival curves that would need to be presented on the same axis (e.g. 16 for Figure 5) is not legible. However we have ensured that axes on faceted plots are equivalent and with grid lines for comparison. Moreover, our approach using statistical coefficients (EMMs) enables direct quantitative comparison of the differences among conditions.

      Reviewer #2:

      Is it possible that this driver is simply not resulting in an efficient KD of the receptor? I would be inclined to check this

      This comment relates to Figure 7G. We do see an effect of the knockdown in this experiment, so we believe that the knockdown is effective. However the direction of response is not consistent with our hypothesis so the experiment is not informative about the role of these cells. We therefore feel there is little to be gained by testing efficacy of knockdown, which would also be technically challenging because the cells are a small population in a larger tissue which expresses the same transcripts elsewhere (i.e. necessitating FISH).

      Would it be possible to use antibodies for acetylated histones?

      The comment relates to Figure 4C-E. The proposed studies would be a significant amount of work because, to our knowledge, the specific histone marks which drive activation in TK+ cells remain unknown. On the other hand, we do not see how this information would enrich the present story, rather such experiments would appear to be the beginning of something new. We therefore agree with Reviewer #1 (in cross-commenting) that this additional work is not justified.

      Reviewer #3:

      Tk+ EEC activity should be assessed directly, rather than relying solely on transcript levels. Approaches such as CaLexA or GCaMP could be used.

      We agree with reviewers 1-2 (in cross-commenting) that this proposal is non-trivial and not justified by the additional insight that would be gained. As described above, we are attempting to immunostain Tk, which if successful will provide a third line of evidence for regulation of Tk+ cells. However we note that we already have the strongest possible evidence for a role of these cells via genetic analysis (Figure 5).

      While the difficulty of maintaining lifelong axenic conditions is understandable, it may still be feasible to assess the induction of Tk (ie. Tk transcription or EE activity upregulation) by the microbiome on males.

      As the reviewer recognises, maintaining axenic experiments for months on end is not trivial. Given the tendency for males either to simply mirror female responses to lifespan-extending interventions, or to not respond at all, we made the decision in our work to only study females. We have instead emphasised in the manuscript that results are from female flies.

      TkR86C, in addition to TkR99D, may be involved in the A. pomorum-lifespan interaction. Consider revising the title to refer more generally to the "tachykinin receptor" rather than only TkR99D.

      We disagree with this interpretation: the results do not show that TkR86C-RNAi recapitulates the effect of enteric Tk-RNAi. A potentially interesting interaction is apparent, but the data do not support a causal role for TkR86C. A causal role is supported only for TkR99D, knockdown of which recapitulates the longevity of axenic flies and Tk<sup>RNAi</sup> flies_._ Therefore we feel that our current title is therefore justified by the data, and a more generic version would misrepresent our findings.

      The difference between "aging" and "lifespan" should also be addressed.

      The smurf phenotype is a well-established metric of healthspan. Moreover, lifespan is the leading aggregate measure of ageing. We therefore feel that the use of “ageing” in the title is appropriate.

      If feasible, assessing foxo activation would add mechanistic depth. This could be done by monitoring foxo nuclear localization or measuring the expression levels of downstream target genes.

      Foxo nuclear localisation has already been shown in axenic flies (Shin et al, 2011). We have added text and citation at lines 401-402.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Hernandez-Nunez et al. investigate the development and function of neural circuits involved in the regulation of heart rate in larval zebrafish. Using conserved genetic markers, they identify neural pathways involved in the bidirectional control of heart rate and in providing sensory feedback, potentially enabling more precise tuning. The main observation is that the different elements of this circuit are laid down in a developmentally staggered manner.

      At 4 days old, the heart rate is invariant to a range of sensory stimuli, and the vagal motor or sympathetic pathways could not be seen to innervate the heart. Progressively through development, the heart is first innervated by the vagal motor pathway, whose axons are cholinergic, before the formation of phox2bb+ intracardiac neurons (ICNs). At this stage, before the first ICNs are observed, activation of the vagal motor pathway by optogenetic activation of a localized population of cholinergic hindbrain neurons leads to bradycardia. After the vagal motor innervation begins, the sympathetic pathway innervates the heart, which could be visualized in the form of TH+ fibers from the anterior paravertebral ganglia (APG). The activity of the TH+ APG neurons was diverse and showed proportional, integral, and derivative-like relationships to the heart rate, suggesting a role in more precise tuning of the rate than what could be achieved through the vagal pathway alone. The sensory vagus innervation of the heart was identified to be the last stage to develop; however, neurons in the nodose ganglion exhibited diverse responses tuned to the heart rate well before the innervation reached the heart. The authors attribute this to the fact that other indirect sensory cues from the gills or vasculature could be used to sense heart rate prior to innervation.

      This study identifies key components of the control loop required for the regulation of heart rate in zebrafish. The control mechanism appears to be independent of the cues that trigger heart rate changes, indicating that the circuit is indeed part of an interoceptive pathway for heart rate control. Evidence for the staggered development of the vagal-motor, sympathetic, and sensory pathways is conclusive, and as the authors discuss, this phenomenon progressively allows for finer-grained control of the heart rate. This could be achieved through proportional-integral-derivative-like control properties emerging in a diverse set of neurons in the APG and sensory feedback of the state of the heart. In line with these findings, the baseline variability of heart rate prior to innervation at 4 days old appears to be comparatively lower than the later stages (Figure 1C, D, Supplementary Figure 1C-F) and increases over development.

      Based on this observation and the time courses of the kernels identified by the GLMs, I would expect heart rate fluctuations of a finer time scale, ultimately limited by the time course of GCaMP6s, to be captured by the models in Figures 3, 5, and 7, in addition to the stimulus-locked changes that are highlighted. While the models yield valuable insight in the form of the activation kernels and their potential roles, in one instance, this captures the potential contribution of either the motor vagus or the APG to the change in heart rate. This makes it challenging to identify where it falls short and the potential functions of pathways that are yet to be discovered.

      Lastly, the proposed anatomical connectivity of the heart-brain circuit is based on tracts observed in this study as well as those inferred from function and from previous studies.

      (1) It is not clear from the images presented here whether the VSNs send feedback projections to the brainstem VPN.

      (2) Do the brainstem neurons identified by their functional roles send efferent projections via the motor vagus nerve? This is unclear from the results presented and needs to be clarified in the text.

      (3) Add appropriate clarifying annotations to Figure 9 and a section of text discussing the potential unknowns in the proposed circuit diagram.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      The authors present highly impressive in vivo voltage‐imaging data, demonstrating neuronal activity at subcellular, cellular, and population levels in a developing organism. The approach provides excellent spatial and temporal resolution, with sufficient signal-to-noise to detect hyperpolarizations and subthreshold events. The visualization of contralateral synchrony and its developmental loss over time is particularly compelling. The observation that ipsilateral synchrony persists despite contralateral desynchronization is a striking demonstration of the power of GEVIs in vivo. While I outline several points that should be addressed, I consider this among the strongest demonstrations of in vivo GEVI imaging to date.

      Major points:

      (1) Clarification of GEVI performance characteristics

      There is a widespread misconception in the GEVI field that response speed is the dominant or primary determinant of sensor performance. Although fast kinetics are certainly desirable, they are not the only (or even necessarily the limiting) factor for effective imaging. Kinetic speed specifies the time to reach ~63% of the maximal ΔF/F for a given voltage step (typically 100 mV, approximating the amplitude of a neuronal action potential), but in practical imaging, a slower sensor with a large ΔF/F can outperform a faster sensor with a small ΔF/F. In this context, the authors' use of ArcLight is actually instructive. ArcLight is one of the slower GEVIs in common use, yet Figures S1a-b clearly show that it still reports voltage transients in vivo very well. I therefore strongly recommend moving these panels into the main text to emphasize that robust in vivo imaging can be achieved even with a relatively slow GEVI, provided the signal amplitude and SNR are adequate. This will help counteract the common misunderstanding in the field.

      (2) ArcLight's voltage-response range

      ArcLight is shifted toward more negative potentials (V₁/₂ ≈ −30 mV). This improves subthreshold detection but makes distinguishing action potentials from subthreshold transients more challenging. The comparison with GCaMP is helpful because the Ca²⁺ signal largely reflects action potentials. Panels S1c-f show similar onset kinetics but a longer decay for GCaMP. Surprisingly, the ΔF/F amplitudes are comparable; typically, GCaMP changes are larger. To support lines 193-194, the authors should include a table summarizing the onset/offset kinetics and ΔF/F ranges for neurons expressing ArcLight versus GCaMP.

      Additionally, the expected action-potential amplitude in zebrafish neurons should be stated. In Figure S1b, a 40 mV change appears to produce ~0.5% ΔF/F, but this should be quantified and noted. Could this comparison to GCaMP help resolve action potentials from subthreshold bursts?

      (3) Axonal versus somatic amplitudes (Line 203)

      The manuscript states that voltage amplitudes are "slightly smaller" in axons than in somata; this requires quantitative values and statistical testing. More importantly, differences in optical amplitude reflect factors such as expression levels, background fluorescence, and optical geometry, not necessarily true differences in voltage amplitude. The axonal signals are clearly present, but their relative magnitude should not be interpreted without correction.

      (4) Figure 4C: need for an off-ROI control

      Figure 4C should include a control ROI located away from ROI3 to demonstrate that the axonal signal is not due to background fluctuations, similar to the control shown in Figure S3. Although the ΔF image suggests localization, showing the trace explicitly would strengthen the point. The fluorescence-change image in Figure 4c should also be fully explained in the legend.

      (5) Figure 5: hyperpolarization signals

      Figure 5 is particularly impressive. It appears that Cell 2 at 18.5 hpf and Cell 1 at 18 hpf exhibit hyperpolarizing events. The authors should confirm that these are true hyperpolarizations by giving some indication of how often they were observed.

      (6) SNR comparison (Lines 300-302)

      The claim that ArcLight and GCaMP exhibit comparable SNR requires statistical support across multiple cells.

    2. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to establish a long-term voltage imaging platform to investigate how coordinated neuronal activity emerges during spinal cord development in zebrafish embryos. Using the genetically encoded voltage indicator ArcLight, they tracked membrane potential dynamics in motor neurons at population, single-cell, and subcellular levels from 18 to 23 hours post-fertilization (hpf), revealing relationships between firing maturation, waveform characteristics, and axonal outgrowth.

      Strengths:

      (1) Technical advancement in developmental voltage imaging:

      This study demonstrates voltage imaging of motor neurons in the developing vertebrate spinal cord. The approach successfully captures voltage dynamics at multiple spatial scales-neuronal population, single-cell, and subcellular compartments.

      (2) Insights into the relationship between morphological and functional maturation:

      The work reveals important relationships between voltage dynamics maturation and morphological changes.

      (3) Kinetics analysis of membrane potential waveform enabled by voltage imaging:

      The characterization of "immature" versus "mature" firing based on quantitative waveform parameters provides insights into functional maturation that are inaccessible by calcium imaging. This analysis reveals a maturation process in the biophysical properties of developing neurons.

      (4) Matching of voltage indicator kinetics to biological signal:

      The authors' choice of ArcLight, despite its slow kinetics compared to newer GEVIs, proved well-suited to the low-frequency activity patterns in developing spinal neurons (frequency ~0.3 Hz).

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Insufficient comparison with prior calcium imaging studies:

      While the authors state that voltage imaging provides superior temporal resolution compared to calcium imaging (lines 192-196, 301), and this is generally true, the current manuscript does not adequately cite or discuss previous calcium imaging studies. Since neural activity occurs at low frequency in the developing spinal cord, calcium imaging is adequate for characterizing the emergence of coordinated activity patterns in the developing zebrafish spinal cord. Notably, Wan et al. (2019, Cell) performed a comprehensive single-cell reconstruction of emerging population activity in the entire developing zebrafish spinal cord using calcium imaging. This work should be properly acknowledged and compared. The specific advantages of voltage imaging over these prior studies need to be more clearly articulated, e.g. detection of subthreshold events and membrane potential waveform kinetics.

      (2) Considerations for generalizability of the ArcLight-based voltage imaging approach:

      While this study successfully demonstrates voltage imaging using ArcLight in the developing spinal cord, the generalizability of this approach to later developmental stages and other neural systems warrants discussion. ArcLight exhibits relatively slow kinetics (rise time ~100-200 ms, decay τ ~200-300 ms). In the current study, these kinetics are well-suited to the developmental activity patterns observed (firing frequency ~0.3 Hz), representing appropriate matching of indicator properties to biological timescales. However, the same approach may be less suitable for later developmental stages when neural activity occurs at higher frequencies.

      (3) Incomplete methodological descriptions:

      As a paper establishing a new imaging approach, several critical details are missing or unclear.

      (a) Imaging system specifications: The imaging setup description lacks essential information, including light source specifications, excitation wavelength/filter sets, and light power at the sample. The authors should also clarify whether wide-field optics was used rather than confocal or selective plane imaging.

      (b) Long-term imaging protocol: Whether neurons were imaged continuously or with breaks between imaging sessions is not explicitly stated. The current phrasing could be interpreted as a continuous 4.5-hour recording, which would be technically impressive but may not be what was actually done.

      (c) Image processing procedures: Denoising and bleach correction procedures are mentioned but not described, which is critical for a methods-focused paper.

      (d) The waveform classification (Supplementary Figure S6) shows overlapping kinetics between "immature" and "mature" firing, yet the classification method is not adequately justified.

      (e) Given that photostability and toxicity are critical considerations for long-term voltage imaging, these aspects warrant further clarification. While the figures suggest stable ArcLight fluorescence during the experiments, the manuscript lacks quantification of photobleaching, a discussion of potential toxicity concerns associated with the indicator, and information regarding the maximum duration over which the ArcLight signal can faithfully report physiological voltage dynamics.

      (4) Incomplete data representation and quantification:

      (a) The claim of "reduced variability" in calcium imaging (line 194) is not clearly demonstrated in Supplementary Figure S1.

      (b) Amplitude distributions for cell/subcellular compartments are not systematically quantified. Figure S3 shows ~5% changes in some axons versus ~2% in others, but it remains unclear whether these variabilities reflect differences between axonal compartments within the same cell, between individual cells, or between individual fish.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study introduces a simple optical strategy for one-photon imaging through GRIN lenses that prioritizes coverage while maintaining practical signal quality. By using low-NA telecentric scanned excitation together with high-NA collection, the approach aims to convert nearly the full lens facet into a usable field of view (FOV) with uniform contrast and visible somata. The method is demonstrated in 4-µm fluorescent bead samples and mouse brain, with qualitative comparisons to widefield and two-photon (2P) imaging. Because the configuration relies on standard components and a minimalist optical layout, it may enable broader access to large-area cellular imaging in the deep brain across neuroscience laboratories.

      Strengths:

      (1) This method mitigates off-axis aberrations and enlarges the usable FOV. It achieves near full-facet usable FOV with consistent centre-to-edge contrast, as evidenced by 4-µm fluorescent bead samples (uniform visibility to the edge) and in vivo microglia imaging (resolvable somata across the field).

      (2) The optical design is simple and supports efficient photon collection, lowering the barrier to adoption relative to adaptive optics (AO) or lens design-based correction. Using standard components and treating the GRIN lens as a high-NA (~1.0) light pipe increases collection efficiency for ballistic and scattered fluorescence. Figure annotations report the illumination energy required to reach a fixed detected-photon target (e.g., ~1000 detected photons per bead/cell for the 500-µm FOV condition), and under this equal-output criterion, the LNTS configuration achieves comparable or better image quality at lower illumination energy than conventional wide-field imaging, supporting improved photon efficiency and implying reduced bleaching and heating for equivalent signal levels.

      (3) The in vivo functional recordings are stable and exhibit strong signals. In vivo calcium imaging shows high-SNR ΔF/F₀ traces that remain stable over ~30-minute sessions with only modest baseline drift reported, supporting physiological measurements without heavy denoising and enabling large-scale data collection.

      (4) The low-NA excitation provides an extended focal depth, enabling more neurons to be tracked concurrently within a single FOV while maintaining practical signal quality. It reduces sensitivity to axial motion and minor misalignment and enhances overall experimental efficiency.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Quantitative characterization is limited. Resolution and contrast are not comprehensively mapped as functions of field position and depth, and a clear, operational definition of "usable FOV" is not specified with threshold criteria.

      (2) The claim of approximately 100% usable FOV is largely supported by qualitative images; standardized metrics (e.g., PSF/MTF maps, contrast-to-noise ratio profiles, cell-detection yield versus radius) are needed to calibrate expectations and enable comparison across systems.

      (3) The trade-off inherent to low NA excitation, namely a broader axial PSF and possible neuropil/background contamination, is acknowledged qualitatively but not quantified. Analyses that separate in-focus from out-of-focus signal would help readers judge single-cell fidelity across the field.

      (4) Generalizability remains to be established. Performance across multiple GRIN models (e.g., diameter, NA), wavelengths, is not yet demonstrated. Longer-session photobleaching, heating, and phototoxicity, particularly near the edge of the FOV, also require fuller evaluation.

      Readers should view it as a coverage-first strategy that enlarges the FOV while accepting a modest trade-off in resolution due to the low-NA excitation and the extended axial PSF.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper proposes a non-decision time (NDT)-informed approach to estimating time-varying decision thresholds in diffusion models of decision making. The manuscript motivates the method well, outlines the identifiability issues it is intended to address, and evaluates it using simulations and two empirical datasets. The aim is clear, the scope is deliberately focused, and the manuscript is well written. The core idea is interesting, technically grounded, and a meaningful contribution to ongoing work on collapsing thresholds.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript is logically structured and easy to follow. The emphasis on parameter recovery is appropriate and appreciated. The finding that the exponential NDT-informed function produces substantially better recovery than the hyperbolic form is useful, given the importance placed on identifiability earlier in the paper. The threshold visualisations are also helpful for interpreting what the models are doing. Overall, the work offers a well-defined, methodologically oriented contribution that will interest researchers working on time-varying thresholds.

      Weaknesses / Areas for Clarification:

      A few points would benefit from clarification, additional analysis, or revised presentation:

      (1) It would help readers to see a concrete demonstration of the trade-off between NDT and collapsing thresholds, to give a sense of the scale of the identifiability problem motivating the work.

      (2) Before moving to the empirical datasets, the manuscript really needs a simulation-based model-recovery comparison, since all major conclusions of the empirical applications rely on model comparison. One approach might be to simulate from (a) an FT model with across-trial drift variability and (b) one of the CT models, then fit both models to each of the simulated data sets. This would address a longstanding issue: sometimes CT models are preferred even when the estimated collapse in the thresholds is close to zero. A recovery study would confirm that model selection behaves sensibly in the new framework.

      (3) An additional subtle point is that BIC is defined in terms of the maximised log-likelihood of the model for the data being modelled. In the joint model, the parameter estimates maximise the combined likelihood of behavioural and non-decision-time data. This means the behavioural log-likelihood evaluated at the joint MLEs is not the behavioural MLE. If BIC is being computed for the behavioural data only, this breaks the assumptions underlying BIC. The only valid BIC here would be one defined for the joint model using the joint likelihood.

      (4) Table 1 sets up the Study 1 comparisons, but there's no row for the FT model. Similarly, Figures 10 and 13 would be more informative if they included FT predictions. This matters because, in Study 1, the FT model appears to fit aggregate accuracy better than the BIC-preferred collapsing model, currently shown only in Appendix 5. Some discussion of why would strengthen the argument.

      (5) In Figure 7, the degree of decay underestimation is obscured by using a density plot rather than a scatterplot, consistent with the other panels of the same figure. Presenting it the same way would make the mis-recovery more transparent. The accompanying text may also need clarification: when data are generated from an FT model with across-trial drift variability, the NDT-informed model seems to infer FT boundaries essentially. If that's correct, the model must be misfitting the simulated data. This is actually a useful result as it suggests across-trial drift variability in FT models is discriminable from collapsing-threshold models. It would be good to make this explicit.

      (6) Given the large recovery advantage of the exponential NDT-informed function over the hyperbolic one, the authors may want to consider whether the results favour adopting the former more generally. Given these findings, I would consider recommending the exponential NDT-informed model for future use.

      (7) In Study 2 (Figure 13), all models qualitatively miss an interesting empirical pattern: under speed emphasis, errors are faster than corrects, while under accuracy emphasis, errors become slower. The error RT distribution in the speed condition is especially poorly captured. It would be helpful for the authors to comment, as it suggests that something theoretically relevant is missing from all models tested.

      (8) The threshold visualisations extend to 3 seconds, yet both datasets show decisions mostly finishing by ~1.5 seconds. Shortening the x-axis would better reflect the empirical RT distributions and avoid unintentionally overstating the timescale of the empirical decision processes.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors use simulations and empirical data fitting in order to demonstrate that informing a decision model on estimates of single-trial non-decision time can guide the model to more reliable parameter estimates, especially when the model has collapsing bounds.

      Strengths:

      The paper is well written and motivated, with clear depth of knowledge in the areas of neurophysiology of decision-making, sequential sampling models, and, in particular, the phenomenon of collapsing decision bounds.

      Two large-scale simulations are run to test parameter recovery, and two empirical datasets are fit and assessed; the fitting procedures themselves are state-of-the-art, and the study makes use of a very new and well-designed ERP decomposition algorithm that provides single-trial estimates of the duration of diffusion; the results provide inferences about the operation of decision bound collapse - all of this is impressive.

      Weaknesses:

      This is an interesting and promising idea, but a very important issue is not clear: it is an intuitive principle that information from an external empirical source can enhance the reliability of parameter estimates for a given model, but how can the overall BIC improve, unless it is in fact a different model? Unfortunately, it is not clear whether and how the model structure itself differs between the NDT-informed and non-NDT-informed cases. Ideally, they are the same actual model, but with one getting extra guidance on where to place the tau and/or sigma parameters from external measurements. The absence of sigma (non-decision time variance) estimates for the non-NDT-informed model, however, suggests it is different in structure, not just in its lack of constraints. If they were the same model, whether they do or do not possess non-decision time variability (which is not currently clear), the only possible reason that the NDT-informed model could achieve better BIC is because the non-NDT-informed model gets lost in the fitting procedure and fails to find the global optimum. If they are in fact different models - for example, if the NDT-informed model is endowed with NDT variability, while the non-NDT-informed model is not - then the fit superiority doesn't necessarily say anything about an NDT-informed reliability boost, but rather just that a model with NDT variability fits better than one without.

      One reason this is unclear is that Footnote 4 says that this study did not allow trial-to-trial variability in nondecision time, but the entire premise of using variable external single-trial estimates of nondecision times (illustrated in Figure 2) assumes there is nondecision time variability and that we have access to its distribution.

      It is good that there is an Intro section to explain how the tradeoff between NDT and collapsing bound parameters renders them difficult to simultaneously identify, but I think it needs more work to make it clear. First of all, it is not impossible to identify both, in the same way as, say, pre- and post-decisional nondecision time components cannot be resolved from behaviour alone - the intro had already talked about how collapsing bounds impact RT distribution shapes in specific ways, and obviously mean (or invariant) NDT can't do that - it can only translate the whole distribution earlier/later on the time axis. This is at odds with the phrasing "one CANNOT estimate these three parameters simultaneously." So it should be first clarified that this tradeoff is not absolute. Second, many readers will wonder if it is simply a matter of characterising the bound collapse time course as beginning at accumulation onset, instead of stimulus offset - does that not sidestep the issue? Third, assuming the above can be explained, and there is a reason to keep the collapse function aligned to stimulus onset, could the tradeoff be illustrated by picking two distinct sets of parameter values for non-decision time, starting threshold, and decay rate, which produce almost identical bound dynamics as a function of RT? It is not going to work for most readers to simply give the formula on line 211 and say "There is a tradeoff." Most readers will need more hand-holding.

      A lognormal distribution is used as line 231 says it "must" produce a right-skew. Why? It is unusual for non-decision time distribution to be asymmetric in diffusion modeling, so this "must" statement must be fully explained and justified. Would I be right in saying that if either fixed or symmetrically distributed nondecision times were assumed, as in the majority of diffusion models, then the non-identifiability problem goes away? If the issue is one faced only by a special class of DDMs with lognormal NDT, this should be stated upfront.

      In the simulation study methods, is the only difference between NDT-informed and non-informed models that the non-NDT-informed must also estimate tau and sigma, whereas the NDT-informed model "knows" these two parameters and so only has the other three to estimate? And is it the exact same data that the two models are fit to, in each of the simulation runs? Why is sigma missing from the uninformed part of Figure 4? If it is nondecision time variability, shouldn't the model at least be aware of the existence of sigma and try to estimate it, in order for this to be a meaningful comparison?

      I am curious to know whether a linear bound collapse suffers from the same identifiability issues with NDT, or was it not considered here because it is so suboptimal next to the hyperbolic/exponential?

      The approach using HMP rests on the assumption that accumulation onset is marked by the peak of a certain neural event, but even if it is highly predictive of accumulation onset, depending on what it reflects, it could come systematically earlier or later than the actual accumulation onset. Could the authors comment on what implications this might have for the approach?

      Figure 7: for this simulation, it would be helpful to know the degree to which you can get away with not equipping the model to capture drift rate variability, when the degree of that d.r. variability actually produces appreciable slow error rates. The approach here is to sample uniformly from ranges of the parameters, but how many of these produce data that can be reasonably recognised as similar to human behaviour on typical perceptual decision tasks? The authors point out that only 5% of fits estimate an appreciable bound collapse but if there are only 10% of the parameter vectors that produce data in a typical RT range with typical error rates etc, and half of these produce an appreciable downturn in accuracy for slower RT, and all of the latter represent that 5%, then that's quite a different story. An easy fix would be to plot estimated decay as a scatter plot against the rate of decline of accuracy from the median RT to the slowest RT, to visualise the degree to which slow errors can be absorbed by the no-dr-var model without falsely estimating steep bound collapse. In general, I'm not so sure of the value of this section, since, in principle, there is no getting around the fact that if what is in truth a drift-variability source of slow errors is fit with a model that can only capture it with a collapsing bound, it will estimate a collapsing bound, or just fail to capture those slow errors.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This is an interesting study exploring methods for reconstructing visual stimuli from neural activity in the mouse visual cortex. Specifically, it uses a competition dataset (published in the Dynamic Sensorium benchmark study) and a recent winning model architecture (DNEM, dynamic neural encoding model) to recover visual information stored in ensembles of mouse visual cortex.

      Strengths:

      This is a great start for a project addressing visual reconstruction. It is based on physiological data obtained at a single-cell resolution, the stimulus movies were reasonably naturalistic and representative of the real world, the study did not ignore important correlates such as eye position and pupil diameter, and of course, the reconstruction quality exceeded anything achieved by previous studies. There appear to be no major technical flaws in the study, and some potential confounds were addressed upon revision. The study is an enjoyable read.

      Weaknesses:

      The study is technically competent and benchmark-focused, but without significant conceptual or theoretical advances. The inclusion of neuronal data broadens the study's appeal, but the work does not explore potential principles of neural coding, which limits its relevance for neuroscience and may create some disappointment to some neuroscientists. The authors are transparent that their goal was methodological rather than explanatory, but this raises the question of why neuronal data were necessary at all, as more significant reconstruction improvements might be achievable using noise-less artificial video encoders alone (network-to-network decoding approaches have been done well by teams such as Han, Poggio, and Cheung, 2023, ICML). Yet, even within the methodological domain, the study does not articulate clear principles or heuristics that could guide future progress. The finding that more neurons improve reconstruction aligns with well-established results in the literature that show that higher neuronal numbers improve decoding in general (for example, Hung, Kreiman, Poggio, and DiCarlo, 2005) and thus may not constitute a novel insight.

      Specific issues:

      (1) The study showed that it could achieve high-quality video reconstructions from mouse visual cortex activity using a neural encoding model (DNEM), recovering 10-second video sequences and approaching a two-fold improvement in pixel-by-pixel correlation over attempts. As a reader, I was left with the question: okay, does this mean that we should all switch to DNEM for our investigations of mouse visual cortex? What makes this encoding model special? It is introduced as "a winning model of the Sensorium 2023 competition which achieved a score of 0.301...single trial correlation between predicted and ground truth neuronal activity," but as someone who does not follow this competition (most eLife readers are not likely to do so, either), I do not know how to gauge my response. Is this impressive? What is the best theoretical score, given noise and other limitations? Is the model inspired by the mouse brain in terms of mechanisms or architecture, or was it optimized to win the competition by overfitting it to the nuances of the data set? Of course, I know that as a reader, I am invited to read the references, but the study would stand better on its own, if it clarified how its findings depended on this model.

      The revision helpfully added context to the Methods about the range of scores achieved by other models, but this information remains absent from the Abstract and other important sections. For instance, the Abstract states, "We achieve a pixel-level correlation of 0.57 between the ground truth movie and the reconstructions from single-trial neural responses," yet this point estimate (presented without confidence intervals or comparisons to controls) lacks meaning for readers who are not told how it compares to prior work or what level of performance would be considered strong. Without such context, the manuscript undercuts potentially meaningful achievements.

      (2) Along those lines, the authors conclude that "the number of neurons in the dataset and the use of model ensembling are critical for high-quality reconstructions." If true, these principles should generalize across network architectures. I wondered whether the same dependencies would hold for other network types, as this could reveal more general insights. The authors replied that such extensions are expected (since prior work has shown similar effects for static images) but argued that testing this explicitly would require "substantial additional work," be "impractical," and likely not produce "surprising results." While practical difficulty alone is not a sufficient reason to leave an idea untested, I agree that the idea that "more neurons would help" would be unsurprising. The question then becomes: given that this is a conclusion already in the field, what new principle or understanding has been gained in this study?

      (3) One major claim was that the quality of the reconstructions depended on the number of neurons in the dataset. There were approximately 8000 neurons recorded per mouse. The correlation difference between the reconstruction achieved by 1000 neurons and 8000 neurons was ~0.2. Is that a lot or a little? One might hypothesize that 7000 additional neurons could contribute more information, but perhaps, those neurons were redundant if their receptive fields are too close together or if they had the same orientation or spatiotemporal tuning. How correlated were these neurons in response to a given movie? Why did so many neurons offer such a limited increase in correlation? Originally, this question was meant to prompt deeper analysis of the neural data, but the authors did not engage with it, suggesting a limited understanding of the neuronal aspects of the dataset.

      (4) We appreciated the experiments testing the capacity of the reconstruction process, by using synthetic stimuli created under a Gaussian process in a noise-free way. But this originally further raised questions: what is the theoretical capability for reconstruction of this processing pipeline, as a whole? Is 0.563 the best that one could achieve given the noisiness and/or neuron count of the Sensorium project? What if the team applied the pipeline to reconstruct the activity of a given artificial neural network's layer (e.g., some ResNet convolutional layer), using hidden units as proxies for neuronal calcium activity? In the revision, this concern was addressed nicely in the review in Supplementary Figure 3C. Also, one appreciates that as a follow up, the team produced error maps (New Figure 6) that highlight where in the frames the reconstruction are likely to fail. But the maps went unanalyzed further, and I am not sure if there was a systematic trend in the errors.

      (5) I was encouraged by Figure 4, which shows how the reconstructions succeeded or failed across different spatial frequencies. The authors note that "the reconstruction process failed at high spatial frequencies," yet it also appears to struggle with low spatial frequencies, as the reconstructed images did not produce smooth surfaces (e.g., see the top rows of Figures 4A and 4B). In regions where one would expect a single continuous gradient, the reconstructions instead display specular, high-frequency noise. This issue is difficult to overlook and might deserve further discussion.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      Public Reviews: 

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This is an interesting study exploring methods for reconstructing visual stimuli from neural activity in the mouse visual cortex. Specifically, it uses a competition dataset (published in the Dynamic Sensorium benchmark study) and a recent winning model architecture (DNEM, dynamic neural encoding model) to recover visual information stored in ensembles of mouse visual cortex. 

      Strengths: 

      This is a great start for a project addressing visual reconstruction. It is based on physiological data obtained at a single-cell resolution, the stimulus movies were reasonably naturalistic and representative of the real world, the study did not ignore important correlates such as eye position and pupil diameter, and of course, the reconstruction quality exceeded anything achieved by previous studies. There appear to be no major technical flaws in the study, and some potential confounds were addressed upon revision. The study is an enjoyable read. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The study is technically competent and benchmark-focused, but without significant conceptual or theoretical advances. The inclusion of neuronal data broadens the study's appeal, but the work does not explore potential principles of neural coding, which limits its relevance for neuroscience and may create some disappointment to some neuroscientists. The authors are transparent that their goal was methodological rather than explanatory, but this raises the question of why neuronal data were necessary at all, as more significant reconstruction improvements might be achievable using noise-less artificial video encoders alone (network-to-network decoding approaches have been done well by teams such as Han, Poggio, and Cheung, 2023, ICML). Yet, even within the methodological domain, the study does not articulate clear principles or heuristics that could guide future progress. The finding that more neurons improve reconstruction aligns with well-established results in the literature that show that higher neuronal numbers improve decoding in general (for example, Hung, Kreiman, Poggio, and DiCarlo, 2005) and thus may not constitute a novel insight. 

      We thank the reviewer for this second round of comments and hope we were able to address the remaining points below. 

      Indeed, using surrogate noiseless data is interesting and useful when developing such methods, or to demonstrate that they work in principle. But in order to evaluate if they really work in practice, we need to use real neuronal data. While we did not try movie reconstruction from layers within artificial neural networks as surrogate data, in Supplementary Figure 3C we provide the performance of our method using simulated/predicted neuronal responses from the dynamic neural encoding model alongside real neuronal responses.

      Specific issues: 

      (1)The study showed that it could achieve high-quality video reconstructions from mouse visual cortex activity using a neural encoding model (DNEM), recovering 10-second video sequences and approaching a two-fold improvement in pixel-by-pixel correlation over attempts. As a reader, I was left with the question: okay, does this mean that we should all switch to DNEM for our investigations of mouse visual cortex? What makes this encoding model special? It is introduced as "a winning model of the Sensorium 2023 competition which achieved a score of 0.301...single trial correlation between predicted and ground truth neuronal activity," but as someone who does not follow this competition (most eLife readers are not likely to do so, either), I do not know how to gauge my response. Is this impressive? What is the best theoretical score, given noise and other limitations? Is the model inspired by the mouse brain in terms of mechanisms or architecture, or was it optimized to win the competition by overfitting it to the nuances of the data set? Of course, I know that as a reader, I am invited to read the references, but the study would stand better on its own, if it clarified how its findings depended on this model. 

      The revision helpfully added context to the Methods about the range of scores achieved by other models, but this information remains absent from the Abstract and other important sections. For instance, the Abstract states, "We achieve a pixel-level correlation of 0.57 between the ground truth movie and the reconstructions from single-trial neural responses," yet this point estimate (presented without confidence intervals or comparisons to controls) lacks meaning for readers who are not told how it compares to prior work or what level of performance would be considered strong. Without such context, the manuscript undercuts potentially meaningful achievements. 

      We appreciate that the additional information about the performance of the SOTA DNEM to predict neural responses could be made more visible in the paper and will therefore move it from the methods to the results section instead: 

      Line 348 “This model achieved an average single-trial correlation between predicted and ground truth neural activity of 0.291 during the competition, this was later improved to 0.301. The competition benchmark models achieved 0.106, 0.164 and 0.197 single-trial correlation, while the third and second place models achieved 0.243 and 0.265. Across the models, a variety of architectural components were used, including 2D and 3D convolutional layers, recurrent layers, and transformers, to name just a few.” will be moved to the results.

      With regard to the lack of context for the performance of our reconstruction in the abstract, we may have overcorrected in the previous revision round and have tried to find a compromise which gives more context to the pixel-level correlation value: 

      Abstract: “We achieve a pixel-level correlation of 0.57 (95% CI [0.54, 0.60]) between ground-truth movies and single-trial reconstructions. Previous reconstructions based on awake mouse V1 neuronal responses to static images achieved a pixel-level correlation of 0.238 over a similar retinotopic area.”

      (2) Along those lines, the authors conclude that "the number of neurons in the dataset and the use of model ensembling are critical for high-quality reconstructions." If true, these principles should generalize across network architectures. I wondered whether the same dependencies would hold for other network types, as this could reveal more general insights. The authors replied that such extensions are expected (since prior work has shown similar effects for static images) but argued that testing this explicitly would require "substantial additional work," be "impractical," and likely not produce "surprising results." While practical difficulty alone is not a sufficient reason to leave an idea untested, I agree that the idea that "more neurons would help" would be unsurprising. The question then becomes: given that this is a conclusion already in the field, what new principle or understanding has been gained in this study? 

      As mentioned in our previous round of revisions, we chose not to pursue the comparison of reconstructions using different model architectures in this manuscript because we did not think it would add significant insights to the paper given the amount of work it would require, and we are glad the reviewer agrees. 

      While the fact that more neurons result in better reconstructions is unsurprising, how quickly performance drops off will depend on the robustness of the method, and on the dimensionality of the decoding/reconstruction task (decoding grating orientation likely requires fewer neurons than gray scale image reconstruction, which in turn likely requires fewer neurons than full color movie reconstruction). How dependent input optimization based image/movie reconstruction is on population size has not been shown, so we felt it was useful for readers to know how well movie reconstruction works with our method when recording from smaller numbers of neurons. 

      (3) One major claim was that the quality of the reconstructions depended on the number of neurons in the dataset. There were approximately 8000 neurons recorded per mouse. The correlation difference between the reconstruction achieved by 1000 neurons and 8000 neurons was ~0.2. Is that a lot or a little? One might hypothesize that 7000 additional neurons could contribute more information, but perhaps, those neurons were redundant if their receptive fields are too close together or if they had the same orientation or spatiotemporal tuning. How correlated were these neurons in response to a given movie? Why did so many neurons offer such a limited increase in correlation? Originally, this question was meant to prompt deeper analysis of the neural data, but the authors did not engage with it, suggesting a limited understanding of the neuronal aspects of the dataset. 

      We apologize that we did not engage with this comment enough in the previous round. We assumed that the question arose because there was a misunderstanding about figure 5: 1000 not 1 neuron is sufficient to reconstruct the movies to a pixel-level correlation of 0.344. Of course, the fact that increasing the number of neurons from 1000 to 8000 only increased the reconstruction performance from 0.344 to 0.569 (65% increase in correlation) is still worth discussing. To illustrate this drop in performance qualitatively, we show 3 example frames from movie reconstructions using 1000-8000 neurons in Author response image 1.

      Author response image 1.

      3 example frames from reconstructions using different numbers of neurons. 

      As the reviewer points out, the diminishing returns of additional neurons to reconstruction performance is at least partly because there is redundancy in how a population of neurons represents visual stimuli. In supplementary figure S2, we inferred the on-off receptive fields of the neurons and show that visual space is oversampled in terms of the receptive field positions in panel C. However, the exact slope/shape of the performance vs population size curve we show in Figure 5 will also depend on the maximum performance of our reconstruction method, which is limited in spatial resolution (Figure 4 & Supplementary Figure S5). It is possible that future reconstruction approaches will require fewer neurons than ours, so we interpret this curve rather as a description of the reconstruction method itself than a feature of the underlying neuronal code. For that reason, we chose caution and refrained from making any claims about neuronal coding principles based on this plot. 

      (4) We appreciated the experiments testing the capacity of the reconstruction process, by using synthetic stimuli created under a Gaussian process in a noise-free way. But this originally further raised questions: what is the theoretical capability for reconstruction of this processing pipeline, as a whole? Is 0.563 the best that one could achieve given the noisiness and/or neuron count of the Sensorium project? What if the team applied the pipeline to reconstruct the activity of a given artificial neural network's layer (e.g., some ResNet convolutional layer), using hidden units as proxies for neuronal calcium activity? In the revision, this concern was addressed nicely in the review in Supplementary Figure 3C. Also, one appreciates that as a follow up, the team produced error maps (New Figure 6) that highlight where in the frames the reconstruction are likely to fail. But the maps went unanalyzed further, and I am not sure if there was a systematic trend in the errors. 

      We are happy to hear that we were able to answer the reviewers’ question of what the maximum theoretical performance of our reconstruction process is in figure 3C. Regarding systematic trends in the error maps, we also did not observe any clear systematic trends. If anything, we noticed that some moving edges were shifted, but we do not think we can quantify this effect with this particular dataset. 

      (5) I was encouraged by Figure 4, which shows how the reconstructions succeeded or failed across different spatial frequencies. The authors note that "the reconstruction process failed at high spatial frequencies," yet it also appears to struggle with low spatial frequencies, as the reconstructed images did not produce smooth surfaces (e.g., see the top rows of Figures 4A and 4B). In regions where one would expect a single continuous gradient, the reconstructions instead display specular, high-frequency noise. This issue is difficult to overlook and might deserve further discussion. 

      Thank you for pointing this out, this is indeed true. The reconstructions do have high frequency noise. We mention this briefly in line 102 “Finally, we applied a 3D Gaussian filter with sigma 0.5 pixels to remove the remaining static noise (Figure S3) and applied the evaluation mask.” In revisiting this sentence, we think it is more appropriate to replace “remove” with “reduce”. This noise is more visible in the Gaussian noise stimuli (Figure 4) because we did not apply the 3D Gaussian filter to these reconstructions, in case it interfered with the estimates of the reconstruction resolution limits. 

      Given that the Gaussian noise and drifting grating stimuli reconstructions were from predicted activity (“noise-free”), this high-frequency noise is not biological in origin and must therefore come from errors in our reconstruction process. This kind of high-frequency noise has previously been observed in feature visualization (optimizing input to maximize the activity of a specific node within a neural network to visualize what that node encodes; Olah, et al., "Feature Visualization", https://distill.pub/2017/feature-visualization/, 2017). It is caused by a kind of overfitting, whereby a solution to the optimization is found that is not “realistic”. Ways of combating this kind of noise include gradient smoothing, image smoothing, and image transformations during optimization, but these methods can restrict the resolution of the features that are recovered. Since we were more interested in determining the maximum resolution of stimuli that can be reconstructed in Figure 4 and Supplementary Figures 5-6, we chose not to apply these methods.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This paper presents a method for reconstructing input videos shown to a mouse from the simultaneously recorded visual cortex activity (two-photon calcium imaging data). The publicly available experimental dataset is taken from a recent brain-encoding challenge, and the (publicly available) neural network model that serves to reconstruct the videos is the winning model from that challenge (by distinct authors). The present study applies gradient-based input optimization by backpropagating the brain-encoding error through this selected model (a method that has been proposed in the past, with other datasets). The main contribution of the paper is, therefore, the choice of applying this existing method to this specific dataset with this specific neural network model. The quantitative results appear to go beyond previous attempts at video input reconstruction (although measured with distinct datasets). The conclusions have potential practical interest for the field of brain decoding, and theoretical interest for possible future uses in functional brain exploration. 

      Strengths: 

      The authors use a validated optimization method on a recent large-scale dataset, with a state-of-the-art brain encoding model. The use of an ensemble of 7 distinct model instances (trained on distinct subsets of the dataset, with distinct random initializations) significantly improves the reconstructions. The exploration of the relation between reconstruction quality and number of recorded neurons will be useful to those planning future experiments. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The main contribution is methodological, and the methodology combines pre-existing components without any new original component. 

      We thank the reviewer for their balanced assessment of our manuscript.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This paper presents a method for reconstructing videos from mouse visual cortex neuronal activity using a state-of-the-art dynamic neural encoding model. The authors achieve high-quality reconstructions of 10-second movies at 30 Hz from two-photon calcium imaging data, reporting a 2-fold increase in pixel-by-pixel correlation compared to previous methods. They identify key factors for successful reconstruction including the number of recorded neurons and model ensembling techniques. 

      Strengths: 

      (1) A comprehensive technical approach combining state-of-the-art neural encoding models with gradient-based optimization for video reconstruction. 

      (2) Thorough evaluation of reconstruction quality across different spatial and temporal frequencies using both natural videos and synthetic stimuli. 

      (3) Detailed analysis of factors affecting reconstruction quality, including population size and model ensembling effects. 

      (4) Clear methodology presentation with well-documented algorithms and reproducible code. 

      (5) Potential applications for investigating visual processing phenomena like predictive coding and perceptual learning. 

      We thank the reviewer for taking the time to provide this valuable feedback. We would like to add that in our eyes one additional main contribution is the step of going from reconstruction of static images to dynamic videos. We trust that in the revised manuscript, we have now made the point more explicit that static image reconstruction relies on temporally averaged responses, which negates the necessity of having to account for temporal dynamics altogether. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The main metric of success (pixel correlation) may not be the most meaningful measure of reconstruction quality: 

      High correlation may not capture perceptually relevant features.

      Different stimuli producing similar neural responses could have low pixel correlations The paper doesn't fully justify why high pixel correlation is a valuable goal 

      This is a very relevant point. In retrospect, perhaps we did not justify this enough. Sensory reconstruction typically aims to reconstruct sensory input based on brain activity as faithfully as possible. A brain-to-image decoder might therefore be trained to produce images as close to the original input as possible. The loss function to train the decoder would therefore be image similarity on the pixel level. In that case, evaluating reconstruction performance based on pixel correlation is somewhat circular. 

      However, when reconstructing videos, we optimize the input video in terms of its perceptual similarity to the original video and only then evaluate pixel-level similarity. The perceptual similarity metric we optimize for is the estimate of how the neurons in mouse V1 respond to that video. We then evaluate the similarity of this perceptually optimized video to the original input video with pixel-level correlation. In other words, we optimize for perceptual similarity and then evaluate pixel similarity. If our method optimized pixel-level similarity, then we would agree that perceptual similarity is a more relevant evaluation metric. We do not think it was clear in our original submission that our optimization loss function is a perceptual loss function, and have now made this clearer in Figure 1C-D and have clarified this in the results section, line 70:

      “In effect, we optimized the input video to be perceptually similar with respect to the recorded neurons.”

      And in line 110: 

      “Because our optimization of the movies was based on a perceptual loss function, we were interested in how closely these movies matched the originals on the pixel level.”

      We chose to use pixel correlation to measure pixel-level similarity for several reasons. 1) It has been used in the past to evaluate reconstruction performance (Yoshida et al., 2020), 2) It is contrast and luminance insensitive, 3) correlation is a common metric so most readers will have an intuitive understanding of how it relates to the data. 

      To further highlight why pixel similarity might be interesting to visualize, we have included additional analysis in Figure 6 illustrating pixel-level differences between reconstructions from experimentally recorded activity and predicted activity. 

      We expect that the type of perceptual similarity the reviewer is alluding to is pretrained neural network image embedding similarity (Zhang et al., 2018: https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.1801.03924). While these metrics seem to match human perceptual similarity, it is unclear if they reflect mouse vision. We did try to compare the embedding similarity from pretrained networks such as VGG16, but got results suggesting the reconstructed frames were no more similar to the ground truth than random frames, which is obviously not true. This might be because the ground truth videos were too different in resolution from the training data of these networks and because these metrics are typically very sensitive to decreases in resolution. 

      The best alternative approach to evaluate mouse perceptual similarity would be to show the reconstructed videos to the same animals while recording the same neurons and to compare these neural activation patterns to those evoked by the original ground truth videos. This has been done for static images in the past: Cobos et al., bioRxiv 2022, found that static image reconstructions generated using gradient descent evoked more similar trial-averaged (40 trials) responses to those evoked by ground truth images compared to other reconstruction methods. Unfortunately, we are currently not able to perform these in vivo experiments, which is why we used publicly available data for the current paper. We plan to use this method in the future. But this method is also not flawless as it assumes that the average response to an image is the best reflection of how that image is represented, which may not be the case for an individual trial.

      As far as we are aware, there is currently no method that, given a particular activity pattern in response to an image/video, can produce an image/video that induces a neural activity pattern that is closer to the original neural response than simply showing the same image/video again. Hypothetically, such a stimulus exists because of various visual processing phenomena we mention in our discussion (e.g., predictive coding and selective attention), which suggest that the image that is represented by a population of neurons likely differs from the original sensory input. In other words, what the brain represents is an interpretation of reality not a pure reflection. Experimentally verifying this is difficult, as these variations might be present on a single trial level. The first step towards establishing a method that captures the visual representation of a population of neurons is sensory reconstruction, where the aim is to get as close as possible to the original sensory input. We think pixel-level correlation is a stringent and interpretable metric for this purpose, particularly when optimizing for perceptual similarity rather than image similarity directly.

      Comparison to previous work (Yoshida et al.) has methodological concerns: Direct comparison of correlation values across different datasets may be misleading; Large differences in the number of recorded neurons (10x more in the current study); Different stimulus types (dynamic vs static) make comparison difficult; No implementation of previous methods on the current dataset or vice versa. 

      Yes, we absolutely agree that direct comparison to previous static image reconstruction methods is problematic. We primarily do so because we think it is standard practice to give related baselines. We agree that direct comparison of the performance of video reconstruction methods to image reconstruction methods is not really possible. It does not make sense to train and apply a dynamic model on a static image data set where neural activity is time-averaged, as the temporal kernels could not be learned. Conversely, for a static model, which expects a single image as input and predicts time averaged responses, it does not make sense to feed it a series of temporally correlated movie frames and to simply concatenate the resulting activity perdition. The static model would need to be substantially augmented to incorporate temporal dynamics, which in turn would make it a new method. This puts us in the awkward position of being expected to compare our video reconstruction performance to previous image reconstruction methods without a fair way of doing so. We have now added these caveats in line 119:

      “However, we would like to stress that directly comparing static image reconstruction methods with movie reconstruction approaches is fundamentally problematic, as they rely on different data types both during training and evaluation (temporally averaged vs continuous neural activity, images flashed at fixed intervals vs continuous movies).”

      We have also toned down the language, emphasising the comparison to previous image reconstruction performance in the abstract, results, and conclusion. 

      Abstract: We removed “We achieve a ~2-fold increase in pixel-by-pixel correlation compared to previous state-of-the-art reconstructions of static images from mouse V1, while also capturing temporal dynamics.” and replaced with “We achieve a pixel-level correction of 0.57 between the ground truth movie and the reconstructions from single-trial neural responses.”

      Discussion: we removed “In conclusion, we reconstruct videos presented to mice based on the activity of neurons in the mouse visual cortex, with a ~2-fold improvement in pixel-by-pixel correlation compared to previous static image reconstruction methods.” and replaced with “In conclusion, we reconstruct videos presented to mice based on single-trial activity of neurons in the mouse visual cortex.”

      We have also removed the performance table and have instead added supplementary figure 3 with in-depth comparison across different versions of our reconstruction method (variations of masking, ensembling, contrast & luminance matching, and Gaussian blurring). 

      Limited exploration of how the reconstruction method could provide insights into neural coding principles beyond demonstrating technical capability. 

      The aim of this paper was not to reveal principles of neural coding. Instead, we aimed to achieve the best possible performance of video reconstructions and to quantify the limitations. But to highlight its potential we have added two examples of how sensory reconstruction has been applied in human vision research in line 321: 

      “Although fMRI-based reconstruction techniques are starting to be used to investigate visual phenomena in humans (such as illusions [Cheng et al., 2023] and mental imagery [Shen et al., 2019; Koide-Majima et al., 2024; Kalantari et al., 2025]), visual processing phenomena are likely difficult to investigate using existing fMRI-based reconstruction approaches, due to the low spatial and temporal resolution of the data.”

      We have also added a demonstration of how this method could be used to investigate which parts of a reconstruction from a single trial response differs from the model's prediction (Figure  6). We do this by calculating pixel-level differences between reconstructions from the recorded neural activity and reconstructions from the expected neural activity (predicted activity by the neural encoding model). Although difficult to interpret, this pixel-by-pixel error map could represent trial-by-trial deviations of the neural code from pure sensory representation. But at this point we cannot know whether these errors are nothing more than errors in the reconstruction process. To derive meaningful interpretations of these maps would require a substantial amount of additional work and in vivo experiments and so is outside the scope of this paper, but we include this additional analysis now to highlight a) why pixel-level similarity might be interesting to quantify and visualize and b) to demonstrate how video reconstruction could be used to provide insights into neural coding, namely as a tool to identify how sensory representations differ from a pure reflection of the visual input.  

      The claim that "stimulus reconstruction promises a more generalizable approach" (line 180) is not well supported with concrete examples or evidence. 

      What we mean by generalizable is the ability to apply reconstruction to novel stimuli, which is not possible for stimulus classification. We now explain this better in the paragraph in line 211: 

      “Stimulus identification, i.e. identifying the most likely stimulus from a constrained set, has been a popular approach for quantifying whether a population of neurons encodes the identity of a particular stimulus [Földiák, 1993, Kay et al., 2008]. This approach has, for instance, been used to decode frame identity within a movie [Deitch et al., 2021, Xia et al., 2021, Schneider et al., 2023, Chen et al.,2024]. Some of these approaches have also been used to reorder the frames of the ground truth movie [Schneider et al., 2023] based on the decoded frame identity. Importantly, stimulus identification methods are distinct from stimulus reconstruction where the aim is to recreate what the sensory content of a neuronal code is in a way that generalizes to new sensory stimuli [Rakhimberdina et al., 2021]. This is inherently a more demanding task because the range of possible solutions is much larger. Although stimulus identification is a valuable tool for understanding the information content of a population code, stimulus reconstruction could provide a more generalizable approach, because it can be applied to novel stimuli.”

      All the stimuli we reconstructed were not in the training set of the model, i.e., novel. We have also downed down the claim: we have replaced “promises” with “could provide”. 

      The paper would benefit from addressing how the method handles cases where different stimuli produce similar neural responses, particularly for high-speed moving stimuli where phase differences might be lost in calcium imaging temporal resolution. 

      Thank you for this suggestion, we think this is a great question. Calcium dynamics are slow and some of the high temporal frequency information could indeed be lost, particularly phase information. In other words, when the stimulus has high temporal frequency information, it is harder to decode spatial information because of the slow calcium dynamics. Ideally, we would look at this effect using the drifting grating stimuli; however, this is problematic because we rely on predicted activity from the SOTA DNEM, and due to the dilation of the first convolution, the periodic grating stimulus causes aliasing. At 15Hz, when the temporal frequency of the stimulus is half the movie frame rate, the model is actually being given two static images, and so the predicted activity is the interleaved activity evoked by two static images. We therefore do not think using the grating stimuli is a good idea. But we have used the Gaussian stimuli as it is not periodic, and is therefore less of a problem. 

      We have now also reconstructed phase-inverted Gaussian noise stimuli and plotted the video correlation between the reconstructions from activity evoked by phase-inverted stimuli. On the one hand, we find that even for the fastest changing stimuli, the correlation between the reconstructions from phase inverted stimuli are negative, meaning phase information is not lost at high temporal frequencies. On the other hand, for the highest spatial frequency stimuli, the correlation is negative. So, the predicted neural activity (and therefore the reconstructions) are phase-insensitive when the spatial frequency is higher than the reconstruction resolution limit we identified (spatial length constant of 1 pixel, or 3.38 degrees). Beyond this limit, the DNEM predicts activity in response to phase-inverted stimuli, which, when used for reconstruction, results in movies which are more similar to each other than the stimulus that actually evokes them. 

      However, not all information is lost at these high spatial frequencies. If we plot the Shannon entropy in the spatial domain or the motion energy in the temporal domain, we find that even when the reconstructions fail to capture the stimulus at a pixel-specific level (spatial length constant of 1 pixel, or 3.38 degrees), they do capture the general spatial and temporal qualities of the videos. 

      We have added these additional analyses to Figure 4 and Supplementary Figure 5.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      This is an interesting study exploring methods for reconstructing visual stimuli from neural activity in the mouse visual cortex. Specifically, it uses a competition dataset (published in the Dynamic Sensorium benchmark study) and a recent winning model architecture (DNEM, dynamic neural encoding model) to recover visual information stored in ensembles of the mouse visual cortex. 

      This is a great project - the physiological data were measured at a single-cell resolution, the movies were reasonably naturalistic and representative of the real world, the study did not ignore important correlates such as eye position and pupil diameter, and of course, the reconstruction quality exceeded anything achieved by previous studies. Overall, it is great that teams are working towards exploring image reconstruction. Arguably, reconstruction may serve as an endgame method for examining the information content within neuronal ensembles - an alternative to training interminable numbers of supervised classifiers, as has been done in other studies. Put differently, if a reconstruction recovers a lot of visual features (maybe most of them), then it tells us a lot about what the visual brain is trying to do: to keep as much information as possible about the natural world in which its internal motor circuits may act consequently. 

      While we enjoyed reading the manuscript, we admit that the overall advance was in the range of those that one finds in a great machine learning conference proceedings paper. More specifically, we found no major technical flaws in the study, only a few potential major confounds (which should be addressable with new analyses), and the manuscript did not make claims that were not supported by its findings, yet the specific conceptual advance and significance seemed modest. Below, we will go through some of the claims, and ask about their potential significance. 

      We thank the reviewer for the positive feedback on our paper.

      (1) The study showed that it could achieve high-quality video reconstructions from mouse visual cortex activity using a neural encoding model (DNEM), recovering 10-second video sequences and approaching a two-fold improvement in pixel-by-pixel correlation over attempts. As a reader, I am left with the question: okay, does this mean that we should all switch to DNEM for our investigations of the mouse visual cortex? What makes this encoding model special? It is introduced as "a winning model of the Sensorium 2023 competition which achieved a score of 0.301... single-trial correlation between predicted and ground truth neuronal activity," but as someone who does not follow this competition (most eLife readers are not likely to do so, either), I do not know how to gauge my response. Is this impressive? What is the best achievable score, in theory, given data noise? Is the model inspired by the mouse brain in terms of mechanisms or architecture, or was it optimized to win the competition by overfitting it to the nuances of the data set? Of course, I know that as a reader, I am invited to read the references, but the study would stand better on its own if clarified how its findings depended on this model. 

      This is a very good point. We do not think that everyone should switch to using this particular DNEM to investigate the mouse visual cortex, but we think DNEMs and stimulus reconstruction in general has a lot of potential. We think static neural encoding models have already been demonstrated to be an extremely valuable tool to investigate visual coding (Walker et al., 2019; Yoshida et al., 2021; Willeke et al., bioRxiv 2023). DNEMs are less common, largely because they are very large and are technically more demanding to train and use. That makes static encoding models more practical for some applications, but they do not have temporal kernels and are therefore only used for static stimuli. They cannot, for instance, encode direction tuning, only orientation tuning. But both static and dynamic encoding models have advantages over stimulus classification methods which we outline in our discussion. Here we provide the first demonstration that previous achievements in static image reconstruction are transferable to movies.

      It has been shown in the past for static neural encoding models that choosing a better-performing model produces reconstructed static images that are closer to the original image (Pierzchlewicz et al., 2023). The factors in choosing this particular DNEM were its capacity to predict neural activity (benchmarked against other models), it was open source, and the data it was designed for was also available. 

      To give more context to the model used in the paper, we have included the following, line 348:

      “This model achieved an average single-trial correlation between predicted and ground truth neural activity of 0.291 during the competition, this was later improved to 0.301. The competition benchmark models achieved 0.106, 0.164 and 0.197 single-trial correlation, while the third and second place models achieved 0.243 and 0.265. Across the models, a variety of architectural components were used, including 2D and 3D convolutional layers, recurrent layers, and transformers, to name just a few.” 

      Concerning biologically inspired model design. The winning model contained 3 fully connected layers comprising the “Cortex” just before the final readout of neural activity, but we would consider this level of biological inspiration as minor. We do not think that the exact architecture of the model is particularly important, as the crucial aspect of such neural encoders is their ability to predict neural activity irrespective of how they achieve it. There has been a move towards creating foundation models of the brain (Wang et al., 2025) and the priority so far has been on predictive performance over mechanistic interpretability or similarity to biological structures and processes. 

      Finally, we would like to note that we do not know what the maximum theoretical score for single-trial responses might be, and don't think there is a good way of estimating it in this context. 

      (2) Along those lines, two major conclusions were that "critical for high-quality reconstructions are the number of neurons in the dataset and the use of model ensembling." If true, then these principles should be applicable to networks with different architectures. How well can they do with other network types? 

      This is a good question. Our method critically relies on the accurate prediction of neural activity in response to new videos. It is therefore expected that a model that better predicts neural responses to stimuli will also be better at reconstructing those stimuli given population activity. This was previously shown for static images (Pierzchlewicz et al., 2023). It is also expected that whenever the neural activity is accurately predicted, the corresponding reconstructed frames will also be more similar to the ground truth frames. We have now demonstrated this relationship between prediction accuracy and reconstruction accuracy in supplementary figure 4.

      Although it would be interesting to compare the movie reconstruction performance of many different models with different architectures and activity prediction performances, this would involve quite substantial additional work because movie reconstruction is very resource- and time-intensive. Finding optimal hyperparameters to make such a comparison fair and informative would therefore be impractical and likely not yield surprising results. 

      We also think it is unlikely that ensembling would not improve reconstruction performance in other models because ensembling across model predictions is a common way of improving single-model performance in machine learning. Likewise, we think it is unlikely that the relationship between neural population size and reconstruction performance would differ substantially when using different models, because using more neurons means that a larger population of noisy neurons is “voting” on what the stimulus is. However, we would expect that if the model were worse at predicting neural activity, then more neurons are needed for an equivalent reconstruction performance. In general, we would recommend choosing the best possible DNEM available, in terms of neural activity prediction performance, when reconstructing movies using input optimization through gradient descent. 

      (3) One major claim was that the quality of the reconstructions depended on the number of neurons in the dataset. There were approximately 8000 neurons recorded per mouse. The correlation difference between the reconstruction achieved by 1 neuron and 8000 neurons was ~0.2. Is that a lot or a little? One might hypothesize that ~7,999 additional neurons could contribute more information, but perhaps, those neurons were redundant if their receptive fields were too close together or if they had the same orientation or spatiotemporal tuning. How correlated were these neurons in response to a given movie? Why did so many neurons offer such a limited increase in correlation? 

      In the population ablation experiments, we compared the performance using ~1000, ~2000, ~4000, ~8000 neurons, and found an attenuation of 39.5% in video correlation when dropping 87.5% of the neurons (~1000 neurons remaining), we did not try reconstruction using just 1 neuron. 

      (4) On a related note, the authors address the confound of RF location and extent. The study resorted to the use of a mask on the image during reconstruction, applied during training and evaluation (Line 87). The mask depends on pixels that contribute to the accurate prediction of neuronal activity. The problem for me is that it reads as if the RF/mask estimate was obtained during the very same process of reconstruction optimization, which could be considered a form of double-dipping (see the "Dead salmon" article, https://doi.org/10.1016/S1053-8119(09)71202-9). This could inflate the reconstruction estimate. My concern would be ameliorated if the mask was obtained using a held-out set of movies or image presentations; further, the mask should shift with eye position, if it indeed corresponded to the "collective receptive field of the neural population." Ideally, the team would also provide the characteristics of these putative RFs, such as their weight and spatial distribution, and whether they matched the biological receptive fields of the neurons (if measured independently). 

      We can reassure the reviewer that there is no double-dipping. We would like to clarify that the mask was trained only on videos from the training set of the DNEM and not the videos which were reconstructed. We have added the sentence, line 91: 

      “None of the reconstructed movies were used in the optimization of this transparency mask.”

      Making the mask dependent on eye position would be difficult to implement with the current DNEM, where eye position is fed to the model as an additional channel. When using a model where the image is first transformed into retinotopic coordinates in an eye position-dependent manner (such as in Wang et al., 2025) the mask could be applied in retinotopic coordinates and therefore be dependent on eye position. 

      Effectively, the alpha mask defines the relative level of influence each pixel contributes to neural activity prediction. We agree it is useful to compare the shape of the alpha mask with the location of traditional on-off receptive fields (RFs) to clarify what the alpha mask represents and characterise the neural population available for our reconstructions. We therefore presented the DNEM with on-off patches to map the receptive fields of single neurons in an in silico experiment (the experimentally derived RF are not available). As expected, there is a rough overlap between the alpha mask (Supplementary Figure 2D), the average population receptive field (Supplementary Figure 2B), and the location of receptive field peaks (Supplementary Figure 2C). In principle, all three could be used during training or evaluation for masking, but we think that defining a mask based on the general influence of images on neural activity, rather than just on off patch responses, is a more elegant solution.

      One idea of how to go a step further would be to first set the alpha mask threshold during training based on the % loss of neural activity prediction performance that threshold induces (in our case alpha=0.5 corresponds to ~3% loss in correlation between predicted vs recorded neural responses, see Supplementary Figure 3D), and second base the evaluation mask on a pixel correlation threshold (see example pixel correlation map in Supplementary Figure 2E) instead to avoid evaluating areas of the image with low image reconstruction confidence. 

      We referred to this figure in the result section, line 83:

      “The transparency masks are aligned with but not identical to the On-Off receptive field distribution maps using sparse-noise (Figure S2).” 

      We have also done additional analysis on the effect of masking during training and evaluation with different thresholds in Supplementary Figure 3.

      (5) We appreciated the experiments testing the capacity of the reconstruction process, by using synthetic stimuli created under a Gaussian process in a noise-free way. But this further raised questions: what is the theoretical capability for the reconstruction of this processing pipeline, as a whole? Is 0.563 the best that one could achieve given the noisiness and/or neuron count of the Sensorium project? What if the team applied the pipeline to reconstruct the activity of a given artificial neural network's layer (e.g., some ResNet convolutional layer), using hidden units as proxies for neuronal calcium activity? 

      That’s a very interesting point. It is very hard to know what the theoretical best reconstruction performance of the model would be. Reconstruction performance could be decreased due to neural variability, experimental noise, the temporal kernel of the calcium indicator and the imaging frame rate, information compression along the visual hierarchy, visual processing phenomena (such as predictive coding and selective attention), failure of the model to predict neural activity correctly, or failure of the reconstruction process to find the best possible image which explains the neural activity. We don't think we can disentangle the contribution of all these sources, but we can provide a theoretical maximum assuming that the model and the reconstruction process are optimal. To that end, we performed additional simulations and reconstructed the natural videos using the predicted activity of the neurons in response to the natural videos as the target (similar to the synthetic stimuli) and got a correlation of 0.766. So, the single trial performance of 0.569 is ~75% of this theoretical maximum. This difference can be interpreted as a combination of the losses due to neuronal variability, measurement noise, and actual deviations in the images represented by the brain compared to reality. 

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion, as it gave us the idea of looking at error maps (Figure 6), where the pixel-level deviation of the reconstructions from recorded vs predicted activity is overlaid on the ground truth movie.

      (6) As the authors mentioned, this reconstruction method provided a more accurate way to investigate how neurons process visual information. However, this method consisted of two parts: one was the state-of-the-art (SOTA) dynamic neural encoding model (DNEM), which predicts neuronal activity from the input video, and the other part reconstructed the video to produce a response similar to the predicted neuronal activity. Therefore, the reconstructed video was related to neuronal activity through an intermediate model (i.e., SOTA DNEM). If one observes a failure in reconstructing certain visual features of the video (for example, high-spatial frequency details), the reader does not know whether this failure was due to a lack of information in the neural code itself or a failure of the neuronal model to capture this information from the neural code (assuming a perfect reconstruction process). Could the authors address this by outlining the limitations of the SOTA DNEM encoding model and disentangling failures in the reconstruction from failures in the encoding model? 

      To test if a better neural prediction by the DNEM would result in better reconstructions, we ran additional simulations and now show that neural activity prediction performance correlates with reconstruction performance (Supplementary Figure 4B). This is consistent with Pierzchlewicz et al., (2023) who showed that static image reconstructions using better encoding models leads to better reconstruction performance. As also mentioned in the answer to the previous comment, untangling the relative contributions of reconstruction losses is hard, but we think that improvements to the DNEM performance are key. Two suggestions to improving the DNEM we used would be to translate the input image into retinotopic coordinates and shift this image relative to eye position before passing it to the first convolutional layer (as is done in Wang et al. 2025), to use movies which are not spatially down sampled as heavily, to not use a dilation of 2 in the temporal convolution of the first layer and to train on a larger dataset. 

      (7) The authors mentioned that a key factor in achieving high-quality reconstructions was model assembling. However, this averaging acts as a form of smoothing, which reduces the reconstruction's acuity and may limit the high-frequency content of the videos (as mentioned in the manuscript). This averaging constrains the tool's capacity to assess how visual neurons process the low-frequency content of visual input. Perhaps the authors could elaborate on potential approaches to address this limitation, given the critical importance of high-frequency visual features for our visual perception. 

      This is exactly what we also thought. To answer this point more specifically, we ran additional simulations where we also reconstruct the movies using gradient ensembling instead of reconstruction ensembling. Here, the gradients of the loss with respect to each pixel of the movie is calculated for each of the model instances and are averaged at every iteration of the reconstruction optimization. In essence, this means that one reconstruction solution is found, and the averaging across reconstructions, which could degrade high-frequency content, is skipped. The reconstructions from both methods look very similar, and the video correlation is, if anything, slightly worse (Supplemental Figure 3A&C). This indicates that our original ensembling approach did not limit reconstruction performance, but that both approaches can be used, depending on what is more convenient given hardware restrictions. 

      Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      This paper presents a method for reconstructing input videos shown to a mouse from the simultaneously recorded visual cortex activity (two-photon calcium imaging data). The publicly available experimental dataset is taken from a recent brain-encoding challenge, and the (publicly available) neural network model that serves to reconstruct the videos is the winning model from that challenge (by distinct authors). The present study applies gradient-based input optimization by backpropagating the brain-encoding error through this selected model (a method that has been proposed in the past, with other datasets). The main contribution of the paper is, therefore, the choice of applying this existing method to this specific dataset with this specific neural network model. The quantitative results appear to go beyond previous attempts at video input reconstruction (although measured with distinct datasets). The conclusions have potential practical interest for the field of brain decoding, and theoretical interest for possible future uses in functional brain exploration. 

      Strengths: 

      The authors use a validated optimization method on a recent large-scale dataset, with a state-of-the-art brain encoding model. The use of an ensemble of 7 distinct model instances (trained on distinct subsets of the dataset, with distinct random initializations) significantly improves the reconstructions. The exploration of the relation between reconstruction quality and the number of recorded neurons will be useful to those planning future experiments. 

      Weaknesses: 

      The main contribution is methodological, and the methodology combines pre-existing components without any new original components. 

      We thank the reviewer for taking the time to review our paper and for their overall positive assessment. We would like to emphasise that combining pre-existing machine learning techniques to achieve top results in a new modality does require iteration and innovation. While gradient-based input optimization by backpropagating the brain-encoding error through a neural encoding model has been used in 2D static image optimization to generate maximally exciting images and reconstruct static images, we are the first to have applied it to movies which required accounting for the time domain. Previous methods used time averaged responses and were limited to the reconstruction of static images presented with fixed image intervals.

      The movie reconstructions include a learned "transparency mask" to concentrate on the most informative area of the frame; it is not clear how this choice impacts the comparison with prior experiments. Did they all employ this same strategy? If not, shouldn't the quantitative results also be reported without masking, for a fair comparison? 

      Yes, absolutely. All reconstruction approaches limit the field of view in some way, whether this is due to the size of the screen, the size of the image on the screen, or cropping of the presented/reconstructed images during analysis due to the retinotopic coverage of the recorded neurons. Note that we reconstruct a larger field of view than Yoshida et al. In Yoshida et al., the reconstructed field of view was 43 by 43 retinal degrees. we show the size of an example evaluation mask in comparison. 

      To address the reviewer’s concern more specifically, we performed additional simulations and now also show the performance using a variety of different training and evaluation masks, including different alpha thresholds for training and evaluation masks as well as the effective retinotopic coverage at different alpha thresholds. Despite these comparisons, we would also like to highlight that the comparison to the benchmark is problematic itself. This is because image and movie reconstruction are not directly comparable. It does not make sense to train and apply a dynamic model on a static image dataset where neural activity is time averaged. Conversely, it does not make sense to train or apply a static model that expects time-averaged neural responses on continuous neural activity unless it is substantially augmented to incorporate temporal dynamics, which in turn would make it a new method. This puts us in the awkward position of being expected to compare our video reconstruction performance to previous image reconstruction methods without a fair way of doing so. We have therefore de-emphasised the phrasing comparing our method to previous publications in the abstract, results, and discussion. 

      Abstract: “We achieve a ~2-fold increase in pixel-by-pixel correlation compared to previous state-of-the-art reconstructions of static images from mouse V1, while also capturing temporal dynamics.” with “We achieve a pixel-level correction of 0.57 between the ground truth movie and the reconstructions from single-trial neural responses.”

      Results: “This represents a ~2x higher pixel-level correlation over previous single-trial static image reconstructions from V1 in awake mice (image correlation 0.238 +/- 0.054 s.e.m for awake mice) [Yoshida et al., 2020] over a similar retinotopic area (~43° x 43°) while also capturing temporal dynamics. However, we would like to stress that directly comparing static image reconstruction methods with movie reconstruction approaches is fundamentally problematic, as they rely on different data types both during training and evaluation (temporally averaged vs continuous neural activity, images flashed at fixed intervals vs continuous movies).”

      Discussion: “In conclusion, we reconstruct videos presented to mice based on the activity of neurons in the mouse visual cortex, with a ~2-fold improvement in pixel-by-pixel correlation compared to previous static image reconstruction methods.” with “In conclusion, we reconstruct videos presented to mice based on single-trial activity of neurons in the mouse visual cortex.”

      We have also removed the performance table and have instead added supplementary figure 3 with in-depth comparison across different versions of our reconstruction method (variations of masking, ensembling, contrast & luminance matching, and Gaussian blurring). 

      We believe that we have given enough information in our paper now so that readers can make an informed decision whether our movie reconstruction method is appropriate for the questions they are interested in.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) "Reconstructions have been luminance (mean pixel value across video) and contrast (standard deviation of pixel values across video) matched to ground truth." This was not clear: was it done by the investigating team? I imagine that one of the most easily captured visual features is luminance and contrast, why wouldn't the optimization titrate these well? 

      The contrast and luminance matching of the reconstructions to the ground truth videos was done by us, but this was only done to help readers assess the quality of the reconstructions by eye. Our performance metrics (frame and video correlation) are contrast and luminance insensitive. To clarify this, we have also added examples of non-adjusted frames in Supplementary Figure 3A, and added a sentence in the results, line 103: 

      “When presenting videos in this paper we normalize the mean and standard deviation of the reconstructions to the average and standard deviation of the corresponding ground truth movie before applying the evaluation masks, but this is not done for quantification except in Supplementary Figure 3D.”

      We were also initially surprised that contrast and luminance are not captured well by our reconstruction method, but this makes sense as V1 is largely luminance invariant (O’Shea et al., 2025 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.celrep.2024.115217 ) and contrast only has a gain effect on V1 activity (Tring et al., 2024 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/jn.00336.2024). Decoding absolute contrast is likely unreliable because it is probably not the only factor modulating the overall gain of the neural population.

      To address the reviewer’s comment more fully, we ran additional experiments. More specifically, to test why contrast and luminance are not recovered in the reconstructions, we checked how the predicted activity between the reconstruction and the contrast/luminance corrected reconstructions differs. Contrast and luminance adjustment had little impact on predicted response similarity on average. This makes the reconstruction optimization loss function insensitive to overall contrast and luminance so it cannot be decoded. There is a small effect on activity correlation, however, so we cannot completely rule out that contrast and luminance could be reconstructed with a different loss function. 

      (2) The authors attempted to investigate the variability in reconstruction quality across different movies and 10-second snippets of a movie by correlating various visual features, such as video motion energy, contrast, luminance, and behavioral factors like running speed, pupil diameter, and eye movement, with reconstruction success. However, it would also be beneficial if the authors correlated the response loss (Poisson loss between neural responses) with reconstruction quality (video correlation) for individual videos, as these metrics are expected to be correlated if the reconstruction captures neural variance. 

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. We have now included this analysis and find that if the neural activity was better predicted by the DNEM then the reconstruction of the video was also more similar to the ground truth video. We further found that this effect is shift-dependent (in time), meaning the prediction of activity based on proximal video frames is more influential on reconstruction performance. 

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) I was confused about the choice of applying a transparency mask thresholded with alpha>0.5 during training and alpha>1 during evaluation. Why treat the two situations differently? Also, shouldn't we expect alpha to be in the [0,1] range, in which case, what is the meaning of alpha>1? (And finally, as already described in "Weaknesses", how does this choice impact the comparison with prior experiments? Did they also employ a similar masking strategy?) 

      We found that applying a mask during training increased performance regardless of the size of the evaluation mask. Using a less stringent mask during training than during evaluation increases performance slightly, but also allows inspection of the reconstruction in areas where the model will be less confident without sacrificing performance, if this is desired. The thresholds of 0.5 and 1 were chosen through trial and error, but the exact values do not hold intrinsic meaning. The alpha mask values can go above 1 during their optimization. We could have clipped alpha during the training procedure (algorithm 1), but we decided this was not worth redoing at this stage, as the alphas used for testing were not above 1. All reconstruction approaches in previous publications limit the field of view in some form, whether this is due to the size of the screen, the size of the image on the screen, or the cropping of the presented/reconstructed images during analysis. 

      To address the reviewer’s comment in detail, we have added extensive additional analysis to evaluate the coverage of the reconstruction achieved in this paper and how different masking strategies affect performance, as well as how the mask relates to more traditional receptive field mapping.  

      (2) I would not use the word "imagery" in the first sentence of the abstract, because this might be interpreted by some readers as reconstruction of mental imagery, a very distinct question. 

      We changed imagery to images in the abstract.

      (3) Line 145-146: "<1 frame, or <30Hz" should be "<1 frame, or >30Hz". 

      We have corrected the error.

      (4) Algorithm 1, Line 5, a subscript variable 'g' should be changed to 'h'

      We have corrected the error.

      Additional Changes

      (1) Minor grammatical errors

      (2) Addition of citations: We were previously not aware of a bioRxiv preprint from 2022 (Cobos et al., 2022), which used gradient descent-based input optimization to reconstruct static images but without the addition of a diffusion model. Instead, we had cited for this method Pierzchlewicz et al., 2023 bioRxiv/NeurIPS. In Cobos et al., 2022, they compare static image reconstruction similarity to ground truth images and the similarity of the in vivo evoked activity across multiple reconstruction methods. Performance values are only given for reconstructions from trial-averaged responses across ~40 trials (in the absence of original data or code we are also not able to retrospectively calculate single-trial performance). The authors find that optimizing for evoked activity rather than image similarity produces image reconstructions that evoke more similar in vivo responses compared to reconstructions optimized for image similarity itself. We have now added and discussed the citation in the main text. 

      (3) Workaround for error in the open-source code from https://github.com/lRomul/sensorium for video hashing function in the SOTA DNEM: By checking the most correlated first frame for each reconstructed movie, we discovered there was a bug in the open-source code and 9/50 movies we originally used for reconstruction were not properly excluded from the training data between DNEM instances. The reason for this error was that some of the movies are different by only a few pixels, and the video hashing function used to split training and test set folds in the original DNEM code classified these movies as different and split them across folds. We have replaced these 9 movies and provide a figure below showing the next closest first frame for every movie clip we reconstruct. This does not affect our claims. Excluding these 9 movie clips, did not affect the reconstruction performance (video correlation went from 0.563 to 0.568), so there was no overestimation of performance due to test set contamination. However, they should still be removed so some of the values in the paper have changed slightly. The only statistical test that was affected was the correlation between video correlation and mean motion energy (Supplementary Figure 4A), which went from p = 0.043 to 0.071. 

      Author response image 2.

      exclusion of movie clips with duplicates in the DNEM training data. A) example frame of a reconstructed movie (ground truth) and the most correlated first frame from the training data. b) all movie clips and their corresponding most correlated clip from the training data. Red boxes indicate excluded duplicates. 

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      Reply to the reviewers

      1. General Statements

      We thank the reviewers for their overall support, thorough review, and thoughtful comments. The points raised were all warranted and we feel that addressing them has improved the quality of our manuscript. Below we respond to each of the points raised.

      2. Point-by-point description of the revisions

      Reviewer #1

      Minor comments:

      Are the lgl-1; pac-1 M-Z- double mutants dead? Only the phenotype of pac-1(M-Z-); lgl-1 (M+Z-) is shown. In figures and text throughout, it should be clear whether mutants are referring to zygotic loss or both maternal and zygotic loss, as this distinction could have major implications on the interpretation of experiments.

      Almost all experiments we performed used a combination of RNAi of lgl-1 in a homozygous pac-1 null mutant background, or the other way around. RNAi should eliminate maternal product, but we hesitate to use the terminology M/Z since it has previously been used for protein degradation strategies.

      We have updated the text and figure 1 to address the potential of maternal product masking earlier phenotypes, and performed additional RNAi experiments to demonstrate that the phenotypes obtained by RNAi for either pac-1 or lgl-1 in a homozygous mutant background for the other are the same as for the genetic double mutant. The results are shown as additional images and quantifications in figure 1B,C. We also updated the legend to figure 1 to make it clear that double genetic mutants are obtained from heterozygous lgl-1/+ parents.

      Regarding the phenotype of lgl-1; pac-1 M-Z- double mutants: assuming the reviewer refers to M-Z- double genetic mutants, we cannot make such embryos as the pac-1(M-Z-); lgl-1(M+Z-) animals are already lethal.

      In Figure 1C, it would be more appropriate to show a fully elongated WT embryo to contrast with arrested elongation in mutant embryos.

      We agree with the reviewer and have replaced the 2-fold WT embryo with a 3-fold embryo.

      Is the lateral spread of DLG-1 in double mutant embryos a result of failure to polarize DLG-1, or failure to maintain polarity? This should be straightforward to address in higher time resolution movies.

      We have analyzed additional embryos at early stages of development. In lgl-1; pac-1 embryos we never see the appearance of complete junctions: defects are apparent already at dorsal intercalation. We interpret these results as a failure to properly polarize DLG-1. We have added additional images to Figure S2 and added this sentence to the text: Imaging of embryos from early stages of development on showed that normal continuous junctional DLG-1 bands are never established in pac-1(RNAi); lgl-1(mib201) embryos (Fig. S2B).

      The lack of enhancement of hmp-1(fe4) by lgl-1(RNAi) is quite interesting, given that pac-1 does enhance hmp-1(fe4). To rule out the possibility that this result stems from incomplete lgl-1 RNAi, this experiment should be repeated using the lgl-1 null mutant.

      We have done this experiment by recreating the fe4 S823F mutation in the lgl-1(null) mutant background as well as in the wild-type CGC1 background using CRISPR/Cas9. The phenotype of both was similar, but differs from that of the original PE97 strain. In the original strain, there is ~50% embryonic lethality but worms that complete embryogenesis grow up to be fertile adults. In our new "fe4" strains, nearly all animals are severely malformed with little to no elongation taking place. We are able to maintain both strains (with and without lgl-1) homozygous but with difficulty as only ~5% of animals grow up and give progeny. Apparently, there are genetic differences between PE97 and our CGC1 background that cause phenotypic differences despite having the same amino acid change in HMP-1.

      Nevertheless, using our original embryonic viability criterium of 'hatching', loss of lgl-1 does not enhance the S823F mutation. We have included the following text in the manuscript:

      To rule out that the lack of enhancement by lgl-1(RNAi) is due to incomplete inactivation of lgl-1, we also re-created the hmp-1(fe4) mutation (S823F) by CRISPR in lgl-1(mib201) mutant animals and wild-type controls. The phenotype of the S823F mutant we created is more severe than that of the original PE97 hmp-1(fe4) strain, with only ~5% of animals becoming fertile adults (Fig. S2F). This likely represents the presence of compensatory changes that have accumulated over time in PE97. Nevertheless, consistent with our RNAi results, the presence of lgl-1(mib201) did not further exacerbate the phenotype of HMP-1(S823F) (Fig. S2E, F). Taken together, the lack of enhancement of hmp-1(S823F) mutants by inactivation of loss of lgl-1 This observation argues against a primary role for lgl-1 in regulating cell junctions.

      • Related to point 4, do pac-1 or lgl-1 null mutants enhance partial knockdown of junction protein DLG-1, or is this effect (of pac-1) specific to HMP-1/AJs?*

      We have attempted to address this point using feeding RNAi against dlg-1. However, we were not able to obtain partial depletion of DLG-1. On RNAi feeding plates, control, pac-1, and lgl-1 animals did not show significant embryonic lethality. We checked RNAi effectiveness with a DLG-1::mCherry strain and found RNAi by feeding to be very ineffective. Since we could not deplete DLG-1 to a level that results in partial embryonic lethality, we were not able to address this question properly.

      Does lgl-1 loss affect PAC-1 protein localization and vice versa?

      It does not. We have added the following text and a figure panel: Loss-of-function mutants that strongly enhance a phenotype are often interpreted as acting in parallel pathways. We therefore examined whether loss of lgl-1 or pac-1 alters the localization of endogenously GFP-tagged LGL-1 or PAC-1. In neither null background did we detect changes in the subcellular localization of the other protein, consistent with LGL-1 and PAC-1 functioning in parallel pathways (Fig. S1D).

      Reviewer #2

      Very little of the imaging data are analyzed quantitatively, and in many cases it is not clear how many embryos were analyzed. While the images that are presented show clear defects, readers cannot determine how reproducible, strong or significant the phenotypes are.

      We completely agree with the reviewer that interpretation of our data requires this information and apologize for the omission in the first manuscript version. The phenotypes are highly penetrant and consistent (timing of arrest, % lethality, junctional defects), and we have now added quantifications throughout the manuscript.

      In particular, the data below should be quantified and, where possible, analyzed statistically:

      • The frequency of the various junctional phenotypes shown in 2C

      We have now quantified the junctional phenotypes. The junctional defects are highly penetrant: >90% of lgl-1; pac-1 embryos have junctional defects (new Fig. 2B). We used airy-scan confocal imaging to analyze the distribution of the different phenotypes (unaffected, spread laterally, and ring-like pattern). The results are shown in Fig. 2G.

      • The expansion of DLG-1::mCherry in pac-1 lgl-1 embryos should be quantified (related to Figure 2B). For example, the percentage of membrane (marked by PH::GFP) occupied by DLG-1 could be quantified.

      We have performed this quantification, shown in Fig. 2D.

      - Similarly, the expansion of the aPKC domain should be quantified (Figure 3A).

      An objective quantification of aPKC signal is difficult due to the relatively weak expression of aPKC::GFP and the lack of a clear demarcating boundary. This is part of the reason we measured tortuosity as a more quantifyable indicator of apical domain expansion. We have now added a qualitative observation table as Figure 3B. In addition, we have expanded the quantification of cell geometry by measuring lateral and basal surfaces. Lateral surfaces were decreased. We added the following text:

      To better understand the reason for the change in geometry, we also measured the lengths of the lateral and basal surfaces (Fig. 3F). We found that the absolute lengths of the apical surfaces were not significantly different between pac-1(RNAi); lgl-1(mib201) and control animals. Instead, the lengths of the lateral domain were reduced (Fig. 3F). Hence, the more dome-shaped appearance of epidermal cells in pac-1; lgl-1 double mutant animals is due to a decrease in lateral domain size, which is consistent with the observed lateral spreading of aPKC.

      • How many embryos were analyzed for each marker shown in Figure 2A, and what proportion showed the described phenotypes? This could be given in the text or in a panel.

      We have added these numbers to panel 2B, and indicated the percentage in the text.

      • The frequency of the various junctional phenotypes shown in 4F.

      To address this, we have changed figure 4F to show three types of phenotype (strong, mild, no phenotype) and added how frequently we observed each to the panels. In rescue experiments, 18/24 embryos showed no junctional defects, while 6/24 showed a mild defect (compared to 100% severe in non-rescued embryos). To make room for this and other quantifications in Figure 4, we moved the demonstration that PAC-1 is depleted by RNAi to supplemental figure S4.

      Because the genetic perturbations used are global (either deletions or RNAi), it is not established whether PAC-1/LGL-1 act in epidermal epithelial cells per se (versus an earlier requirement that manifests in epidermal epithelial cells). While I agree that this is the most likely scenario, other mechanisms are possible.

      Our experiments indeed use global depletion/deletion of lgl-1 and pac-1. We cannot exclude therefore that other tissues do not contribute to the epithelial phenotypes. We assume that other tissues would be affected as well, and in fact have observed abnormal looking pharynx tissue (see our response to reviewer 3 below for examples). As the epidermis is one of the first tissue to develop it is likely the first in which phenotypes become apparent.

      In particular, the overall GFP::aPKC levels appear notably higher in pac-1 lgl-1 embryos in Figure 3A. aPKC levels should be quantified to determine if this is true of pac-1 lgl-1 embryos. If so, couldn't that explain (or at least contribute to) the observed phenotypes?

      Overall higher levels could indeed contribute to the phenotype. However, we have now quantified total aPKC levels in control and pac-1; lgl-1 embryos found no difference between them. We have added the following text to the manuscript: To determine if increased expression of aPKC might explain the broadened apical localization, we measured total intensity levels of aPKC::GFP. However, we detected no differences in fluorescence levels between control and pac-1(RNAi); lgl-1(mib201) animals (Fig. S3B, C).

      Minor

      Figure 4: For completeness, please include the embryonic viability of pac-1 lgl-1 +/- embryos treated with EV and cdc-42(RNAi), as was done for pac-1 lgl-1 pkc-3(ts) in Figure 4E. Presumably the increased proportion of viable embryos with the lgl-1 deletion allele is reflected in an overall increase in embryonic viability.

      The embryonic viability indeed increases, but not as much as one might think because 15% of embryos die from the cdc-42 RNAi itself. The most important rescue argument is that we can obtain adult pac-1; lgl-1 animals with cdc-42 RNAi.

      We have now included the overall rescue and the following text: Overall, cdc-42 RNAi caused a mild increase in embryonic viability (Fig. 4A). However, total embryonic viability may underestimate rescue of pac-1; lgl-1 embryonic lethality, because it also includes the ~15% lethality caused by cdc-42 inactivation itself, even among animals wild type for lgl-1.

      The orientation of the inset images in Figures 2C, 3A and 3D is confusing. An illustration showing how these images are oriented relative to each other would be helpful.

      We have added a figure showing how the junctions are oriented in the figures (Fig. 2E). We have also added supplemental videos S3 and S4 that should illustrate the phenotype more clearly as well.

      For completeness, it would be good to test whether lgl-1(delta) is also synthetically lethal with picc-1(RNAi) (Zilberman 2017).

      We like this idea and had already looked into this. Lgl-1 and picc-1 are not synthetic lethal (see graph in word file submitted). However, PICC-1 is not the only junctional localization signal for PAC-1, as demonstrated by the Nance lab. We find the data interesting but feel that it deserves a more thorough structure/function investigation of PAC-1 than we can provide here. Therefore we would prefer not to include this data.

      Reviewer #3

      We thank the reviewer for their support of our manuscript.

      A few small areas to improve this manuscript:

      p. 6 like 139: "remain" should be "remaining"

      We have fixed this typo.

      Could the authors mention what is the phenotype of the 10% of pac-1 animals that die?

      Yes. They die with pleotropic phenotypes not resembling those of our pac-1; lgl-1 double mutant embryos. We have added examples of these to Figure S1.

      Based on the Supplemental figures, it made me curious to ask: Did the authors notice changes in dorsal epidermal fusions? Cadherin normally disappears in the dorsal hyp7 cells at this time. Did the timing of the fusions change at all?

      We haven't analyzed this in detail but our time-lapse videos show that dorsal fusions still take place and do not seem to be particularly delayed (overall development is slightly delayed but the delay in fusion is consistent with overall delay).

      Again, curiosity driven by the Supplemental figures: did the authors notice defects in apical regions of internal organs, like the pharynx or intestine? The CDC-42 biosensor is asymmetrical in the developing intestine. See: DOI: 10.1242/bio.056911

      We did not pay much attention to the intestine as PAC-1 is barely detectable in this tissue. The pharynx is formed, which we can easily detect in arrested embryos as we use GFP or BFP expressed under the myo-2 promoter to mark the deletion of pac-1. While we did not look closely, we do observe defects in pharynx development.

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      Referee #2

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      Summary: This study focuses on the polarization of epidermal epithelial cells in C. elegans. Whereas the basolateral polarity protein is LGL-1 is required for epithelial polarity in flies, LGL-1 is dispensable for polarization and viability in C. elegans. Through a whole-genome RNAi screen, Jarosinska et al discover that the depletion of the RhoGAP PAC-1 is synthetically lethal with an lgl-1 deletion mutant. pac-1 lgl-1 double mutants have significant polarity defects in the epidermal epithelial, including mislocalization of junctional markers and expansion of the apical aPKC domain. As a result pac-1 lgl-1 double mutants fail to maintain surface epithelial and arrest development. Genetic interaction data suggest that increased CDC42 and aPKC activity in pac-1 lgl-1 contributes, as least in part, to the polarity defects and resulting embryonic lethality.

      Major comments:

      Very little of the imaging data are analyzed quantitatively, and in many cases it is not clear how many embryos were analyzed. While the images that are presented show clear defects, readers cannot determine how reproducible, strong or significant the phenotypes are. In particular, the data below should be quantified and, where possible, analyzed statistically:

      • The frequency of the various junctional phenotypes shown in 2C
      • The expansion of DLG-1::mCherry in pac-1 lgl-1 embryos should be quantified(related to Figure 2B). For example, the percentage of membrane (marked by PH::GFP) occupied by DLG-1 could be quantified.
      • Similarly, the expansion of the aPKC domain should be quantified (Figure 3A).
      • How many embryos were analyzed for each marker shown in Figure 2A, and what proportion showed the described phenotypes? This could be given in the text or in a panel.
      • The frequency of the various junctional phenotypes shown in 4F.

      Because the genetic perturbations used are global (either deletions or RNAi), it is not established whether PAC-1/LGL-1 act in epidermal epithelial cells per se (versus an earlier requirement that manifests in epidermal epithelial cells). While I agree that this is the most likely scenario, other mechanisms are possible. In particular, the overall GFP::aPKC levels appear notably higher in pac-1 lgl-1 embryos in Figure 3A. aPKC levels should be quantified to determine if this is true of pac-1 lgl-1 embryos. If so, couldn't that explain (or at least contribute to) the observed phenotypes?

      Minor

      Figure 4: For completeness, please include the embryonic viability of pac-1 lgl-1 +/- embryos treated with EV and cdc-42(RNAi), as was done for pac-1 lgl-1 pkc-3(ts) in Figure 4E. Presumably the increased proportion of viable embryos with the lgl-1 deletion allele is reflected in an overall increase in embryonic viability.

      The orientation of the inset images in Figures 2C, 3A and 3D is confusing. An illustration showing how these images are oriented relative to each other would be helpful.

      For completeness, it would be good to test whether lgl-1(delta) is also synthetically lethal with picc-1(RNAi) (Zilberman 2017).

      Significance

      LGL-1 is a conserved polarity protein that is essential for viability in Drosophila. In contrast, lgl-1 mutants are viable and have weak polarity phenotypes in C. elegans. A previous study showed that LGL-1 acts redundantly with the posterior polarity proteins PAR-2 during establishment of anterior/posterior polarity in the one-cell worm embryo. Here, Jarosinska et al show that LGL-1 acts redundantly with another protein, the RhoGAP protein PAC-1, in the polarization of the embryonic epidermal epithelial. The strength of this study is the identification of redundant roles for PAC-1 and LGL-1, the apparent strength of the polarity defects in the double mutant and the broader implication that LGL-1 may act in a range of redundant, cell/tissue specific pathways to regulate polarity. The primary weakness of this study is the lack of quantification. Additionally, the aPKC and CDC42 genetic interaction data hint at potential pathways, but fall short of establishing LGL-1's or PAC-1's mechanism of action.

      Advance: This works identifies a redundant genetic interaction between LGL-1 and PAC-1. While the data require additional quantification, the phenotypes presented appear clear and strong. Although the molecular mechanism by which LGL-1 and PAC-1 act is not well established in the current work, the core observation is significant and should provide a foundation for future studies dissecting the molecular mechanisms.

      Audience: This work will be of interest to a broad audience. LGL-1 is conserved and its role in cell polarization and epithelial polarity is very actively studied, including in mammalian systems.

      Field of expertise. C elegans embryonic development; cell polarity.

    3. Note: This preprint has been reviewed by subject experts for Review Commons. Content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Referee #1

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      In this manuscript, Jarosinska and colleagues address the roles of two polarity regulators, pac-1 and lgl-1, in C. elegans epidermal polarity. Loss of function mutations in either of these gene individually does not block polarization, but through a genome-wide RNAi screen, the authors find that pac-1 and lgl-1 enhance each other to cause apical-basal polarity defects and arrest during epidermal morphogenesis. The remainder of the paper focuses on testing genetic interactions between both proteins and AJ proteins (HMP-1) as well as apical proteins (CDC-42, PKC-3). These experiments reveal some interesting differences in how lgl-1 and pac-1 interface with junctional proteins (pac-1 enhances hmp-1 but lgl-1 does not) and apical proteins (lgl-1 suppresses pkc-3 or cdc-42 partial loss but pac-1 does not).

      Minor comments:

      1. Are the lgl-1; pac-1 M-Z- double mutants dead? Only the phenotype of pac-1(M-Z-); lgl-1 (M+Z-) is shown. In figures and text throughout, it should be clear whether mutants are referring to zygotic loss or both maternal and zygotic loss, as this distinction could have major implications on the interpretation of experiments.
      2. In Figure 1C, it would be more appropriate to show a fully elongated WT embryo to contrast with arrested elongation in mutant embryos.
      3. Is the lateral spread of DLG-1 in double mutant embryos a result of failure to polarize DLG-1, or failure to maintain polarity? This should be straightforward to address in higher time resolution movies.
      4. The lack of enhancement of hmp-1(fe4) by lgl-1(RNAi) is quite interesting, given that pac-1 does enhance hmp-1(fe4). To rule out the possibility that this result stems from incomplete lgl-1 RNAi, this experiment should be repeated using the lgl-1 null mutant.
      5. Related to point 4, do pac-1 or lgl-1 null mutants enhance partial knockdown of junction protein DLG-1, or is this effect (of pac-1) specific to HMP-1/AJs?
      6. Does lgl-1 loss affect PAC-1 protein localization and vice versa?

      Significance

      Overall, the manuscript provides additional insights into apical-basal polarization in C. elegans and demonstrates that lgl-1 is likely working in a similar way as in Drosophila, despite the lack of a phenotype in single lgl-1 mutants. I found the experiments to be done rigorously and interpretations of the data appropriate. All of my suggestions on improving the manuscript are minor; suggested experiments should be viewed as optional ways to strengthen the conclusions/impact of the study.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review)

      Major:

      (1) In line 76, the authors make a very powerful statement: 'σRNN simulation achieves higher similarity with unseen recorded trials before perturbation, but lower than the bioRNN on perturbed trials.' I couldn't find a figure showing this. This might be buried somewhere and, in my opinion, deserves some spotlight - maybe a figure or even inclusion in the abstract.

      We agree with the reviewer that these results are important. The failure of σRNN on perturbed data could be inferred from the former Figures 1E, 2C-E, and 3D. Following the reviewers' comments, we have tried to make this the most prominent message of Figure 1, in particular with the addition of the new panel E. We also moved Table 1 from the  Supplementary to the main text to highlight this quantitatively. 

      (2) It's mentioned in the introduction (line 84) and elsewhere (e.g., line 259) that spiking has some advantage, but I don't see any figure supporting this claim. In fact, spiking seems not to matter (Figure 2C, E). Please clarify how spiking improves performance, and if it does not, acknowledge that. Relatedly, in line 246, the authors state that 'spiking is a better metric but not significant' when discussing simulations. Either remove this statement and assume spiking is not relevant, or increase the number of simulations.

      We could not find the exact quote from the reviewer, and we believe that he intended to quote “spiking is better on all metrics, but without significant margins”. Indeed, spiking did not improve the fit significantly on perturbed trials, this is particularly true in comparison with the benefits of Dale’s law and local inhibition. As suggested by the reviewer, we rephrased the sentence from this quote and more generally the corresponding paragraphs in the intro (lines 83-87) and in the results (lines 245-271). Our corrections in the results sections are also intended to address the minor point (4) raised by the same reviewer.

      (3) The authors prefer the metric of predicting hits over MSE, especially when looking at real data (Figure 3). I would bring the supplementary results into the main figures, as both metrics are very nicely complementary. Relatedly, why not add Pearson correlation or R2, and not just focus on MSE Loss?

      In Figure 3 for the in-vivo data, we do not have simultaneous electrophysiological recordings and optogenetic stimulation in this dataset.  The two are performed on different recording sessions. Therefore, we can only compare the effect of optogenetics on the behavior, and we cannot compute Pearson correlation or R2 of the perturbed network activity. To avoid ambiguity, we wrote “For the sessions of the in vivo dataset with optogenetic perturbation that we considered, only the behavior of an animal is recorded” on line 294. 

      (4) I really like the 'forward-looking' experiment in closed loop! But I felt that the relevance of micro perturbations is very unclear in the intro and results. This could be better motivated: why should an experimentalist care about this forward-looking experiment? Why exactly do we care about micro perturbation (e.g., in contrast to non-micro perturbation)? Relatedly, I would try to explain this in the intro without resorting to technical jargon like 'gradients'.

      As suggested, we updated the last paragraph of the introduction (lines 88 - 95) to give better motivation for why algorithmically targeted acute spatio-temporal perturbations can be important to dissect the function of neural circuits. We also added citations to recent studies with targeted in vivo optogenetic stimulation. As far as we know the existing previous work targeted network stimulation mostly using linear models, while we used non-linear RNNs and their gradients.

      Minor:

      (1) In the intro, the authors refer to 'the field' twice. Personally, I find this term odd. I would opt for something like 'in neuroscience'.

      We implemented the suggested change: l.27 and l.30

      (2) Line 45: When referring to previous work using data-constrained RNN models, Valente et al. is missing (though it is well cited later when discussing regularization through low-rank constraints)

      We added the citation: l.45

      (3) Line 11: Method should be methods (missing an 's').

      We fixed the typo.

      (4) In line 250, starting with 'So far', is a strange choice of presentation order. After interpreting the results for other biological ingredients, the authors introduce a new one. I would first introduce all ingredients and then interpret. It's telling that the authors jump back to 2B after discussing 2C.

      We restructured the last two paragraphs of section 2.1, and we hope that the presentation order is now more logical.

      (5) The black dots in Figure 3E are not explained, or at least I couldn't find an explanation.

      We added an explanation in the caption of Figure 3E.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) Some aspects of the methods are unclear. For comparisons between recurrent networks trained from randomly initialized weights, I would expect that many initializations were made for each model variant to be compared, and that the performance characteristics are constructed by aggregating over networks trained from multiple random initializations. I could not tell from the methods whether this was done or how many models were aggregated.

      The expectation of the reviewer is correct, we trained multiple models with different random seeds (affecting both the weight initialization and the noise of our model) for each variant and aggregated the results. We have now clarified this in Methods 4.6. lines 658-662.

      (2) It is possible that including perturbation trials in the training sets would improve model performance across conditions, including held-out (untrained) perturbations (for instance, to units that had not been perturbed during training). It could be noted that if perturbations are available, their use may alleviate some of the design decisions that are evaluated here.

      In general, we agree with the reviewer that including perturbation trials in the training set would likely improve model performance across conditions. One practical limitation explaining partially why we did not do it with our dataset is the small quantity of perturbed trials for each targeted cortical area: the number of trials with light perturbations is too scarce to robustly train and test our models.

      More profoundly, to test hard generalizations to perturbations (aka perturbation testing), it will always be necessary that the perturbations are not trivially represented in the training data. Including perturbation trials during training would compromise our main finding: some biological model constraints improve the generalization to perturbation. To test this claim, it was necessary to keep the perturbations out of the training data.

      We agree that including all available data of perturbed and non-perturbed recordings would be useful to build the best generalist predictive system. It could help, for instance, for closed-loop circuit control as we studied in Figure 5. Yet, there too, it will be important for the scientific validation process to always keep some causal perturbations of interest out of the training set. This is necessary to fairly measure the real generalization capability of any model. Importantly, this is why we think out-of-distribution “perturbation testing” is likely to have a recurring impact in the years to come, even beyond the case of optogenetic inactivation studied in detail in our paper.

      Recommendation for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendation for the authors):

      The code is not very easy to follow. I know this is a lot to ask, but maybe make clear where the code is to train the different models, which I think is a great contribution of this work? I predict that many readers will want to use the code and so this will improve the impact of this work.

      We updated the code to make it easier to train a model from scratch.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendation for the authors):

      The figures are really tough to read. Some of that small font should be sized up, and it's tough to tell in the posted paper what's happening in Figure 2B.

      We updated Figures 1 and 2 significantly, in part to increase their readability. We also implemented the "Superficialities" suggestions.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      The authors analyzed the expression of ATAD2 protein in post-meiotic stages and characterized the localization of various testis-specific proteins in the testis of the Atad2 knockout (KO). By cytological analysis as well as the ATAC sequencing, the study showed that increased levels of HIRA histone chaperone, accumulation of histone H3.3 on post-meiotic nuclei, defective chromatin accessibility and also delayed deposition of protamines. Sperm from the Atad2 KO mice reduces the success of in vitro fertilization. The work was performed well, and most of the results are convincing. However, this manuscript does not suggest a molecular mechanism for how ATAD2 promotes the formation of testis-specific chromatin. 

      We would like to take this opportunity to highlight that the present study builds on our previously published work, which examined the function of ATAD2 in both yeast S. pombe and mouse embryonic stem (ES) cells (Wang et al., 2021). In yeast, using genetic analysis we showed that inactivation of HIRA rescues defective cell growth caused by the absence of ATAD2. This rescue could also be achieved by reducing histone dosage, indicating that the toxicity depends on histone over-dosage, and that HIRA toxicity, in the absence of ATAD2, is linked to this imbalance.

      Furthermore, HIRA ChIP-seq performed in mouse ES cells revealed increased nucleosome-bound HIRA, particularly around transcription start sites (TSS) of active genes, along with the appearance of HIRA-bound nucleosomes within normally nucleosome-free regions (NFRs). These findings pointed to ATAD2 as a major factor responsible for unloading HIRA from nucleosomes. This unloading function may also apply to other histone chaperones, such as FACT (see Wang et al., 2021, Fig. 4C).

      In the present study, our investigations converge on the same ATAD2 function in the context of a physiologically integrated mammalian system—spermatogenesis. Indeed, in the absence of ATAD2, we observed H3.3 accumulation and enhanced H3.3-mediated gene expression. Consistent with this functional model of ATAD2— unloading chaperones from histone- and non-histone-bound chromatin—we also observed defects in histone-toprotamine replacement.

      Together, the results presented here and in Wang et al. (2021) reveal an underappreciated regulatory layer of histone chaperone activity. Previously, histone chaperones were primarily understood as factors that load histones. Our findings demonstrate that we must also consider a previously unrecognized regulatory mechanism that controls assembled histone-bound chaperones. This key point was clearly captured and emphasized by Reviewer #2 (see below).

      Strengths:

      The paper describes the role of ATAD2 AAA+ ATPase in the proper localization of sperm-specific chromatin proteins such as protamine, suggesting the importance of the DNA replication-independent histone exchanges with the HIRA-histone H3.3 axis. 

      Weaknesses: 

      (1) Some results lack quantification. 

      We will consider all the data and add appropriate quantifications where necessary.

      (2) The work was performed well, and most of the results are convincing. However, this manuscript does not suggest a molecular mechanism for how ATAD2 promotes the formation of testis-specific chromatin. 

      Please see our comments above.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review): 

      Summary:

      This manuscript by Liakopoulou et al. presents a comprehensive investigation into the role of ATAD2 in regulating chromatin dynamics during spermatogenesis. The authors elegantly demonstrate that ATAD2, via its control of histone chaperone HIRA turnover, ensures proper H3.3 localization, chromatin accessibility, and histone-toprotamine transition in post-meiotic male germ cells. Using a new well-characterized Atad2 KO mouse model, they show that ATAD2 deficiency disrupts HIRA dynamics, leading to aberrant H3.3 deposition, impaired transcriptional regulation, delayed protamine assembly, and defective sperm genome compaction. The study bridges ATAD2's conserved functions in embryonic stem cells and cancer to spermatogenesis, revealing a novel layer of epigenetic regulation critical for male fertility. 

      Strengths:

      The MS first demonstration of ATAD2's essential role in spermatogenesis, linking its expression in haploid spermatids to histone chaperone regulation by connecting ATAD2-dependent chromatin dynamics to gene accessibility (ATAC-seq), H3.3-mediated transcription, and histone eviction. Interestingly and surprisingly, sperm chromatin defects in Atad2 KO mice impair only in vitro fertilization but not natural fertility, suggesting unknown compensatory mechanisms in vivo. 

      Weaknesses:

      The MS is robust and there are not big weaknesses 

      Reviewer #3 (Public review): 

      Summary: 

      The authors generated knockout mice for Atad2, a conserved bromodomain-containing factor expressed during spermatogenesis. In Atad2 KO mice, HIRA, a chaperone for histone variant H3.3, was upregulated in round spermatids, accompanied by an apparent increase in H3.3 levels. Furthermore, the sequential incorporation and removal of TH2B and PRM1 during spermiogenesis were partially disrupted in the absence of ATAD2, possibly due to delayed histone removal. Despite these abnormalities, Atad2 KO male mice were able to produce offspring normally. 

      Strengths:

      The manuscript addresses the biological role of ATAD2 in spermatogenesis using a knockout mouse model, providing a valuable in vivo framework to study chromatin regulation during male germ cell development. The observed redistribution of H3.3 in round spermatids is clearly presented and suggests a previously unappreciated role of ATAD2 in histone variant dynamics. The authors also document defects in the sequential incorporation and removal of TH2B and PRM1 during spermiogenesis, providing phenotypic insight into chromatin transitions in late spermatogenic stages. Overall, the study presents a solid foundation for further mechanistic investigation into ATAD2 function. 

      Weaknesses:

      While the manuscript reports the gross phenotype of Atad2 KO mice, the findings remain largely superficial and do not convincingly demonstrate how ATAD2 deficiency affects chromatin dynamics. Moreover, the phenotype appears too mild to elucidate the functional significance of ATAD2 during spermatogenesis. 

      We respectfully disagree with the statement that our findings are largely superficial. Based on our investigations of this factor over the years, it has become evident that ATAD2 functions as an auxiliary factor that facilitates mechanisms controlling chromatin dynamics (see, for example, Morozumi et al., 2015). These mechanisms can still occur in the absence of ATAD2, but with reduced efficiency, which explains the mild phenotype we observed.

      This function, while not essential, is nonetheless an integral part of the cell’s molecular biology and should be studied and brought to the attention of the broader biological community, just as we study essential factors. Unfortunately, the field has tended to focus primarily on core functional actors, often overlooking auxiliary factors. As a result, our decade-long investigations into the subtle yet important roles of ATAD2 have repeatedly been met with skepticism regarding its functional significance, which has in turn influenced editorial decisions.

      We chose eLife as the venue for this work specifically to avoid such editorial barriers and to emphasize that facilitators of essential functions do exist. They deserve to be investigated, and the underlying molecular regulatory mechanisms must be understood.

      (1) Figures 4-5: The analyses of differential gene expression and chromatin organization should be more comprehensive. First, Venn diagrams comparing the sets of significantly differentially expressed genes between this study and previous work should be shown for each developmental stage. Second, given the established role of H3.3 in MSCI, the effect of Atad2 knockout on sex chromosome gene expression should be analyzed. Third, integrated analysis of RNA-seq and ATAC-seq data is needed to evaluate how ATAD2 loss affects gene expression. Finally, H3.3 ChIP-seq should be performed to directly assess changes in H3.3 distribution following Atad2 knockout.  

      (1) In the revised version, we will include Venn diagrams to illustrate the overlap in significantly differentially expressed genes between this study and previous work. However, we believe that the GSEAs presented here provide stronger evidence, as they indicate the statistical significance of this overlap (p-values). In our case, we observed p-value < 0.01 (**) and p < 0.001 (***).

      (2) Sex chromosome gene expression was analyzed and is presented in Fig. 5C.

      (3) The effect of ATAD2 loss on gene expression is shown in Fig. 4A, B, and C as histograms, with statistical significance indicated in the middle panels.

      (4) Although mapping H3.3 incorporation across the genome in wild-type and Atad2 KO cells would have been informative, the available anti-H3.3 antibody did not work for ChIP-seq, at least in our hands. The authors of Fontaine et al., 2022, who studied H3.3 during spermatogenesis in mice, must have encountered the same problem, since they tagged the endogenous H3.3 gene to perform their ChIP experiments.

      (2) Figure 3: The altered distribution of H3.3 is compelling. This raises the possibility that histone marks associated with H3.3 may also be affected, although this has not been investigated. It would therefore be important to examine the distribution of histone modifications typically associated with H3.3. If any alterations are observed, ChIP-seq analyses should be performed to explore them further.

      Based on our understanding of ATAD2’s function—specifically its role in releasing chromatin-bound HIRA—in the absence of ATAD2 the residence time of both HIRA and H3.3 on chromatin increases. This results in the detection of H3.3 not only on sex chromosomes but across the genome. Our data provide clear evidence of this phenomenon. The reviewer is correct in suggesting that the accumulated H3.3 would carry H3.3-associated histone PTMs; however, we are unsure what additional insights could be gained by further demonstrating this point.

      (3) Figure 7: While the authors suggest that pre-PRM2 processing is impaired in Atad2 KO, no direct evidence is provided. It is essential to conduct acid-urea polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis (AU-PAGE) followed by western blotting, or a comparable experiment, to substantiate this claim. 

      Figure 7 does not suggest that pre-PRM2 processing is affected in Atad2 KO; rather, this figure—particularly Fig. 7B—specifically demonstrates that pre-PRM2 processing is impaired, as shown using an antibody that recognizes the processed portion of pre-PRM2. ELISA was used to provide a more quantitative assessment; however, in the revised manuscript we will also include a western blot image.

      (4) HIRA and ATAD2: Does the upregulation of HIRA fully account for the phenotypes observed in Atad2 KO? If so, would overexpression of HIRA alone be sufficient to phenocopy the Atad2 KO phenotype? Alternatively, would partial reduction of HIRA (e.g., through heterozygous deletion) in the Atad2 KO background be sufficient to rescue the phenotype? 

      These are interesting experiments that require the creation of appropriate mouse models, which are not currently available.

      (5) The mechanism by which ATAD2 regulates HIRA turnover on chromatin and the deposition of H3.3 remains unclear from the manuscript and warrants further investigation. 

      The Reviewer is absolutely correct. In addition to the points addressed in response to Reviewer #1’s general comments (see above), it would indeed have been very interesting to test the segregase activity of ATAD2 (likely driven by its AAA ATPase activity) through in vitro experiments using the Xenopus egg extract system described by Tagami et al., 2004. This system can be applied both in the presence and absence (via immunodepletion) of ATAD2 and would also allow the use of ATAD2 mutants, particularly those with inactive AAA ATPase or bromodomains. However, such experiments go well beyond the scope of this study, which focuses on the role of ATAD2 in chromatin dynamics during spermatogenesis.

      References:

      (1) Wang T, Perazza D, Boussouar F, Cattaneo M, Bougdour A, Chuffart F, Barral S, Vargas A, Liakopoulou A, Puthier D, Bargier L, Morozumi Y, Jamshidikia M, Garcia-Saez I, Petosa C, Rousseaux S, Verdel A, Khochbin S. ATAD2 controls chromatin-bound HIRA turnover. Life Sci Alliance. 2021 Sep 27;4(12):e202101151. doi: 10.26508/lsa.202101151. PMID: 34580178; PMCID: PMC8500222.

      (2) Morozumi Y, Boussouar F, Tan M, Chaikuad A, Jamshidikia M, Colak G, He H, Nie L, Petosa C, de Dieuleveult M, Curtet S, Vitte AL, Rabatel C, Debernardi A, Cosset FL, Verhoeyen E, Emadali A, Schweifer N, Gianni D, Gut M, Guardiola P, Rousseaux S, Gérard M, Knapp S, Zhao Y, Khochbin S. Atad2 is a generalist facilitator of chromatin dynamics in embryonic stem cells. J Mol Cell Biol. 2016 Aug;8(4):349-62. doi: 10.1093/jmcb/mjv060. Epub 2015 Oct 12. PMID: 26459632; PMCID: PMC4991664.

      (3) Fontaine E, Papin C, Martinez G, Le Gras S, Nahed RA, Héry P, Buchou T, Ouararhni K, Favier B, Gautier T, Sabir JSM, Gerard M, Bednar J, Arnoult C, Dimitrov S, Hamiche A. Dual role of histone variant H3.3B in spermatogenesis: positive regulation of piRNA transcription and implication in X-chromosome inactivation. Nucleic Acids Res. 2022 Jul 22;50(13):7350-7366. doi: 10.1093/nar/gkac541. PMID: 35766398; PMCID: PMC9303386.

      (4) Tagami H, Ray-Gallet D, Almouzni G, Nakatani Y. Histone H3.1 and H3.3 complexes mediate nucleosome assembly pathways dependent or independent of DNA synthesis. Cell. 2004 Jan 9;116(1):51-61. doi: 10.1016/s0092-8674(03)01064-x. PMID: 14718166.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor Comments:

      I note that the reviewers had mixed opinions about the strength of the evidence in the manuscript. A revision that addresses these points would be welcome.

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):  

      Major points: 

      (1) No line numbers: It is hard to point out the issues.

      The revised version harbors line numbers.

      (2) Given the results shown in Figure 3 and Figure 4, it is nice to show the chromosomal localization of histone H3.3 in spermatocytes or post-meiotic cells by Chromatin-immunoprecipitation sequencing (ChIP-seq).

      Although mapping H3.3 incorporation across the genome in wild-type and Atad2 KO cells would have been informative, the available anti-H3.3 antibody did not work for ChIP-seq in our hands. In fact, this antibody is not well regarded for ChIP-seq. For example, Fontaine et al. (2022), who investigated H3.3 during spermatogenesis in mice, circumvented this issue by tagging the endogenous H3.3 genes for their ChIP experiments.

      (3) Figure 7B and 8: Why the authors used ELISA for the protein quantification. At least, western blotting should be shown.

      ELISA is a more quantitative method than traditional immunoblotting. Nevertheless, as requested by the reviewer, we have now included a corresponding western blot in Fig. S3.

      (4) For readers, please add a schematic pathway of histone-protamine replacement in sperm formation in Fig.1 and it would be nice to have a model figure, which contains the authors' idea in the last figure.

      As requested by this reviewer, we have now included a schematic model in Figure 9 to summarize the main conclusions of our work.

      Minor points: 

      (1) Page 2, the second paragraph, "pre-PRM2: Please explain more about pre-PRM2 and/or PRM2 as well as PRM1 (Figure 6).

      More detailed descriptions of PRM2 processing are now given in this paragraph. 

      (2) Page 3, bottom paragraph, line 1: "KO" should be "knockout (KO)".

      Done.

      (3) Page 4, second paragraph bottom: Please explain more about the protein structure of germ-line-specific ATAD2S: how it is different from ATAD2L. Germ-line specific means it is also expressed in ovary?

      As Atad2 is predominantly expressed in embryonic stem cells and in spermatogenic cells, we replaced all through the text germ-line specific by more appropriate terms.

      (4) Figure 1C, western blotting: Wild-type testis extracts, both ATAD2L and -S are present. Does this mean that ATADS2L is expressed in both germ line as well as supporting cells. Please clarify this and, if possible, show the western blotting of spermatids well as spermatocytes.

      Figure 1D shows sections of seminiferous tubules from Atad2 KO mice, in which lacZ expression is driven by the endogenous Atad2 promoter. The results indicate that Atad2 is expressed mainly in post-meiotic cells. Most labeled cells are located near the lumen, whereas the supporting Sertoli cells remain unlabeled. Sertoli cells, which are anchored to the basal lamina, span the entire thickness of the germinal epithelium from the basal lamina to the lumen. Their nuclei, however, are usually positioned closer to the basal membrane. Thus, the observed lacZ expression pattern argues against substantial Atad2 expression in Sertoli cells. 

      (5) Figure 1C: Please explain a bit more about the reduction of ATAD2 proteins in heterozygous mice.

      Done

      (6) Figure 1C: Genotypes of the mice should be shown in the legend.

      Done 

      (7) Figure 1D: Please add a more magnified image of the sections to see the staining pattern in the seminiferous tubules.

      The magnification does not bring more information since we lose the structure of cells within tubules due the nature of treatment of the sections for X-gal staining. Please see comments to question 1C to reviewer 2

      (8) Page 5, first paragraph, line 2, histone dosage: What do the authors meant by the histone dosage? Please explain more or use more appropriate word.

      "Histone dosage" refers to the amount or relative abundance of histone proteins in a cell.

      (9) Figure 2A: Figure 2A: Given the result in Figure 1C, it is interesting to check the amount of HIRA in Atad2 heterozygous mice.

      In Atad2 heterozygous mice, we would expect an increase in HIRA, but only to about half the level seen in the Atad2 homozygous knockout shown in Figure 2A, which is relatively modest. Therefore, we doubt that detecting such a small change—approximately half of that in Figure 2A—would yield clear or definitive results. 

      (10) Figure 2A, legend (n=5): What does this "n" mean? The extract of testes from "5" male mice like Figure 2B. Or 5 independent experiments. If the latter is true, it is important to share the other results in the Supplements.

      “n” refers to five WT and five Atad2 KO males. The legend has been clarified as suggested by the reviewer.

      (11) Figure 2A, legend, line 2, Atad2: This should be italicized.

      Done

      (12) Figure 2B: Please show the quantification of amounts of HIRA protein like Fig. 2A.

      As indicated in the legend, what is shown is a pool of testes from 3 individuals per genotype.

      (13) Figure 2B shows an increased level of HIRA in Atad2 KO testis. This suggests the role of ATAD2 in the protein degradation of HIRA. This possibility should be mentioned or tested since ATAD2 is an AAA+ ATPase. 

      The extensive literature on ATAD2 provides no indication that it is involved in protein degradation. In our early work on ATAD2 in the 2000s, we hypothesized that, as a member of the AAA ATPase family, ATAD2 might associate with the 19S proteasome subunit (through multimerization with the other AAA ATPase member of this regulatory subunit). However, both our published pilot studies (Caron et al., PMID: 20581866) and subsequent unpublished work ruled out this possibility. Instead, since the amount of nucleosome-bound HIRA increases in the absence of ATAD2, we propose that chromatin-bound HIRA is more stable than soluble HIRA once it has been released from chromatin by ATAD2.

      (14) Page 6, second paragraph, line 5, ko: KO should be capitalized.

      Done

      (15) Page 6, second paragraph, line 2 from the bottom, chromatin dynamics: Throughout the text, the authors used "chromatin dynamics". However, all the authors analyzed in the current study is the localization of chromatin protein.  So, it is much easier to explain the results by using "chromatin status," etc. In this context, "accessibility" is better. 

      We changed the term “chromatin dynamics” into a more precise term according to the context used all through the text.

      (16) Figure 3: Please provide the quantification of signals of histone H3.3 in a nucleus or nuclear cytoplasm.

      This request is not clear to us since we do not observe any H3.3 signal in the cytoplasm.

      (17) Figure 3: As the control of specificity in post-meiotic cells, please show the image and quantification of the H3.3 signals in spermatocyte, for example.

      This request is not clear to us. What specificity is meant? 

      (18) Figure 3, bottom panels: Please show what the white lines indicate? 

      The white lines indicate the limit of cell nucleus and estimated by Hoechst staining. This is now indicated in the legend of the figure. 

      (19) Figure 4A: Please explain more about what kind of data is here. Is this wild-type and/or Atad2 KO? The label of the Y-axis should be "mean expression level". What is the standard deviation (SD) here on the X-axis. Moreover, there is only one red open circle, but the number of this class is 5611. All 5611 genes in this group show NO expression. Please explain more.

      The plot displays the mean expression levels (y-axis, labeled as "mean expression level") versus the corresponding standard deviations (x-axis), both calculated from three independent biological replicates of isolated round spermatids (Atad2 wild-type and Atad2 KO). The standard deviation reflects the variability of gene expression across biological replicates. Genes were grouped into four categories (grp1: blue, grp2: cyan, grp3: green, grp4: orange) according to the quartile of their mean expression. For grp4, all genes have no detectable expression, resulting in a mean expression of zero and a standard deviation of zero; consequently, the 5611 genes in this group are represented by a single overlapping point (red open circle) at the origin. 

      (20) Figure 4C: If possible, it would be better to have a statistical comparison between wild-type and the KO.  

      The mean profiles are displayed together with their variability (± 2 s.e.m.) across the four replicates for both ATAD2 WT (blue) and ATAD2 KO (red). For groups 1, 2, and 3, the envelopes of the curves remain clearly separated around the peak, indicating a consistent difference in signal between the two conditions. In contrast, group 4 does not present a strong signal and, accordingly, no marked difference is observed between WT and KO in this group.

      (21) Figure 5, GSEA panels: Please explain more about what the GSEA is in the legend.  The legend has been updated as follows:

      (A) Expression profiles of post-meiotic H3.3-activated genes. The heatmap (left panel) displays the normalized expression levels of genes identified by Fontaine and colleagues as upregulated in the absence of histone H3.3 (Fontaine et al. 2022) for Atad2 WT (WT) and Atad2 KO (KO) samples at days 20, 22, 24, and 26 PP (D20 to D26). The colour scale represents the z-score of log-transformed DESeq2-normalized counts. The middle panel box plots display, pooled, normalized expression levels, aggregated across replicates and genes, for each condition (WT and KO) and each time point (D20 to D26). Statistical significance between WT and KO conditions was determined using a two-sided t-test, with p-values indicated as follows: * for p-value<0.05, ** for p-value<0.01 and *** for p-value<0.001. The right panel shows the results of gene set enrichment analysis (GSEA), which assesses whether predefined groups of genes show statistically significant differences between conditions. Here, the post-meiotic H3.3-activated genes set, identified by Fontaine et al. (2022), is significantly enriched in Atad2 KO compared with WT samples at day 26 (p < 0.05, FDR < 0.25). Coloured vertical bars indicate the “leading edge” genes (i.e., those contributing most to the enrichment signal), located before the point of maximum enrichment score.  (B) As shown in (A) but for the "post-meiotic H3.3-repressed genes" gene set. (C) As shown in (A) but for the " sex chromosome-linked genes " gene set.

      (22) Figure 6. In the KO, the number of green cells is more than red and yellow cells, suggesting the delayed maturation of green (TH2B-positive) cells. It is essential to count the number of each cell and show the quantification.

      The green cells correspond to those expressing TH2B but lacking transition proteins (TP) and protamine 1 (Prm1), indicating that they are at earlier stages than elongating–condensing spermatids. Counting these green cells simply reflects the ratio of elongating/condensing spermatids to earlier-stage cells, which varies depending on the field examined. The key point in this experiment is that in wild-type mice, only red cells (elongating/condensing spermatids) and green cells (earlier stages) are observed. By contrast, in Atad2 KO testes, a significant proportion of yellow cells appears, which are never seen in wild-type tissue. The crucial metric here is the percentage of yellow cells relative to the total number of elongating/condensing spermatids (red cells). In wild-type testes, this value is consistently 0%, whereas in Atad2 KO testes it always ranges between 50% and 100% across all fields containing substantial numbers of elongating/condensing spermatids.

      (23) Figure 8A: Please show the images of sperm (heads) in the KO mice with or without decompaction.

      The requested image is now displayed in Figure S5.

      (24) Figure 8C: In the legend, it says n=5. However, there are more than 5 plots on the graph. Please explain the experiment more in detail.

      The experiment is now better explained in the legend of this Figure.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      While the study is rigorous and well performed, the following minor points could be addressed to strengthen the manuscript: 

      Figure 1C should indicate each of the different types of cells present in the sections. It would be of interest to show specifically the different post-meiotic germ cells.

      With this type of sample preparation, it is difficult to precisely distinguish the different cell types within the sections. Nevertheless, the staining pattern strongly indicates that most of the intensely stained cells are post-meiotic, situated near the tubule lumens and extending roughly halfway toward the basal membrane.

      In the absence of functional ATAD2, the accumulation of HIRA primarily occurs in round spermatids (Fig. 2B). If technically possible, it would be of great interest to show this by IHC of testis section. 

      Unfortunately, our antibody did not satisfactorily work in IHC.

      The increased of H3.3 signal in Atad2 KO spermatids (Fig. 3) is interpreted because of a reduced turnover. However, alternative explanations (e.g., H3.3 misincorporation or altered chaperone affinity) should not be ruled out. 

      The referee is correct that alternative explanations are possible. However, based on our previous work (Wang et al., 2021; PMID: 34580178), we demonstrated that in the absence of ATAD2, there is reduced turnover of HIRAbound nucleosomes, as well as reduced nucleosome turnover, evidenced by the appearance of nucleosomes in regions that are normally nucleosome-free at active gene TSSs. We have no evidence supporting any other alternative hypothesis.

      In the MS the reduced accessibility at active genes (Fig. 4) is attributed to H3.3 overloading. However, global changes in histone acetylation (e.g., H4K5ac) or other remodelers in KO cells could be also consider.

      In fact, we meant that histone overloading could be responsible for the altered accessibility. This has been clearly demonstrated in case of S. cerevisiae in the absence of Yta7 (S.  cerevisiae’ ATAD2) (PMID: 25406467).

      In relation with the sperm compaction assay (Fig. 8A), the DTT/heparin/Triton protocol may not fully reflect physiological decompaction. This could be validated with alternative methods (e.g., MNase sensitivity). 

      The referee is right, but since this is a subtle effect as it can be judged by normal fertility, we doubt that milder approaches could reveal significant differences between wildtype and Atad2 KO sperms.

      It is surprising that despite the observed alterations in the genome organization of the sperm, the natural fertility of the KO mice is not affected (Fig. 8C). This warrants deeper discussion: Is functional compensation occurring (e.g., by p97/VCP)? Analysis of epididymal sperm maturation or uterine environment could provide insights.

      As detailed in the Discussion section, this work, together with our previous study (Wang et al., 2021; PMID: 34580178), highlights an overlooked level of regulation in histone chaperone activity: the release of chromatinbound factors following their interaction with chromatin. This is an energy-dependent process, driven by ATP and the associated ATPase activity of these factors. Such activity could be mediated by various proteins, such as p97/VCP or DNAJC9–HSP70, as discussed in the manuscript, or by yet unidentified factors. However, most of these mechanisms are likely to occur during the extensive histone-to-histone variant exchanges of meiosis and post-meiotic stages. To the best of our knowledge, epididymal sperm maturation and the uterine environment do not involve substantial histone-to-histone or histone-to-protamine exchanges.

      The authors showed that MSCI genes present an enhancement of repression in the absence of ATAD2 by enhancing H3.3 function. It would be also of interest to analyze the behavior of the Sex body during its silencing (zygotene to pachytene) by looking at different markers (i.e., gamma-H2AX phosphorylation, Ubiquitylation etc). 

      The referee is correct that this is an interesting question. Accordingly, in our future work, we plan to examine the sex body in more detail during its silencing, using a variety of relevant markers, including those suggested by the reviewer. However, we believe that such investigations fall outside the scope of the present study, which focuses on the molecular relationship between ATAD2 and H3.3, rather than on the role of H3.3 in regulating sex body transcription. For a comprehensive analysis of this aspect, studies should primarily focus on the H3.3 mouse models reported by Fontaine and colleagues (PMID: 35766398).

      Fig. 6: Co-staining of TH2B/TP1/PRM1 is convincing but would benefit from quantification (% cells with overlapping signals).

      The green cells correspond to those expressing TH2B but lacking transition proteins (TP) and protamine 1 (Prm1), indicating that they are at earlier stages than elongating–condensing spermatids. Counting these green cells simply reflects the ratio of elongating/condensing spermatids to earlier-stage cells, which varies depending on the field examined. The key point is that in wild-type mice, only red cells (elongating/condensing spermatids) and green cells (earlier stages) are observed. By contrast, in Atad2 KO testes, a significant proportion of yellow cells appears, which are never seen in wild-type tissue. The crucial metric is the percentage of yellow cells relative to the total number of elongating/condensing spermatids (red cells). In wild-type testes, this value is consistently 0%, whereas in Atad2 KO testes it always ranges between 50% and 100% across all fields containing substantial numbers of elongating/condensing spermatids.

    1. Download Your Action Plan Toolkit

      The Feedback Action Plan Template is a strong and practical resource, and it’s an ideal place to make the three movements of Engagement (⇄E) explicit. Rather than renaming the template, we suggest lightly structuring it around Reflection, Inquiry, and Action — using labels or prompts to help learners see Engagement as a process they practise over time. Much of this is already present; the main enhancement would be distinguishing an initial reflection on how feedback lands (emotionally and cognitively) from later reflection on capability development, and clearly positioning SAG insights as part of the Inquiry move.

      Suggested enhancements to the Feedback Action Plan Template 1. Keep the title “Feedback Action Plan Template” The title is clear and learner-friendly. Rather than renaming it, the conceptual work can be done through how the template is structured and framed. 2. Add a brief framing line at the top to connect the template to ⇄E For example: “This Action Plan helps you practise the Engagement (⇄E) part of the SAG⇄E Insights for Learning framework by guiding you through three moves: Reflection, Inquiry, and Action.” 3. Make the three ⇄E movements explicit through light section labelling or prompts This helps learners see Engagement as a process they practise, not just a single step. 4. Surface an initial Reflection move (before action planning) Add a short reflection prompt that invites learners to notice how feedback lands emotionally and cognitively, for example: • What stood out to you in this feedback? • How did it make you feel or think differently about your work or learning? This normalises reflection and supports learning from challenge or mistakes. 5. Position SAG insights as part of the Inquiry move Reframe the existing “SAG⇄E Insights” section as Inquiry, e.g.: Which Successes, Adjustments, or Growth insights matter most right now, and why? This reinforces that SAG insights are inputs to learner sense-making, not endpoints. 6. Retain the Action section with minimal change The current focus on specific, achievable steps is strong. Optional prompts could reinforce time-bounded action (e.g. “over the next week or two”). 7. Differentiate reflection on ‘how feedback landed’ from reflection on development over time The existing “Reflection on Capability Development” section works well as a later reflection, focused on noticing learning, growth, or changes in confidence after acting on feedback. 8. Keep Support Resources and Portfolio Annotation as they are, with minor connective language if helpful These sections already align well with ⇄E and portfolio learning; small wording tweaks could simply reinforce their role in supporting the Engagement process.

    1. which makes it very strong and resistant to stretching

      Maybe we note that the parallel fibers provide good tensile (straight-line) strength, not very good shear (perpendicular) strength, leading to tears when perpendicular forces are applied as in many knee injuries.

    2. diffuse across during gas exchange

      A useful analogy here might be that simple squamous epithelium is similar to a screen door, letting smaller substances through but not larger ones. I then explain that we find this tissue in areas that we need exchange to occur.

    3. The sloughing off of dead cells

      Maybe a note that the deepest layer of the tissue is the only one that divides, and as cells get pushed closer to the surface they flatten out and die.

    4. it doesn’t have a blood supply

      Maybe add that this contributes to its role as a barrier, preventing infectious material from directly entering the bloodstream from the environment.

    1. form genes

      We define what genes are made of, but never discuss their role in the body. Some reference to genes being the instructions for forming proteins is probably warranted.

    2. The unique sequence for every protein is ultimately determined by the gene that encodes the protein.

      We haven't introduced genes or their role in the body yet, so this may be a very confusing sentence. Maybe put the nucleic acid conversation before the protein conversation in this chapter in order to help define this concept before it is applied?

    3. using protein for energy causes tissue breakdown and results in body wasting

      I'm afraid that students may misinterpret this to mean that using dietary protein for energy causes body wasting. Maybe some reference to starvation, etc. to make this clearer?

    4. r g

      Nitpicky, but maybe say "blood glucose levels" instead of just glucose levels for better tie-in to future blood glucose regulation conversations.

    1. ‘Banking on Climate chaos’ - The biggest global banks continue to double down on the fossil fuel sector

      What does it actually mean when a bank “puts money into a sector”?

      Banks don’t usually give money. They finance things. That happens in a few main ways:

      1. Loans

      Banks lend money to companies. Example: An oil company wants to drill a new field → the bank gives a loan.

      If the bank says no, that project often can’t happen (or becomes much more expensive).

      1. Underwriting bonds and shares

      Big companies raise money by issuing:

      bonds (debt)

      shares (equity)

      Banks act as the middlemen who:

      design the deal

      sell it to investors

      take a fee

      If a bank refuses to underwrite a coal or oil expansion, that company loses easy access to capital markets.

      1. Project finance

      This is very direct. Banks fund specific projects like:

      coal mines

      LNG terminals

      pipelines

      No bank finance → no project.

      1. General corporate finance

      Even if money isn’t tied to a single oil well, banks provide:

      credit lines

      working capital

      refinancing

      This keeps fossil fuel companies alive and growing.

      So… can banks really choose NOT to fund fossil fuels?

      Yes. And many already do — selectively.

      Banks set internal policies, for example:

      “We will not finance new coal projects”

      “We will stop funding Arctic drilling”

      “We will only fund companies with transition plans”

      These are choices, not laws of nature.

      Then why do banks say “it’s complicated”?

      Because of three real-world pressures:

      1. Profit

      Fossil fuels still make money. Oil and gas companies are:

      large

      politically powerful

      seen as “safe” borrowers

      Banks are profit-driven institutions.

      1. Energy demand today

      The world still runs on fossil fuels. Banks argue: “If we stop financing now, energy prices spike and economies suffer.”

      There’s some truth here — but it’s also used as a convenient excuse to delay change.

      1. Competition

      If Bank A stops funding fossil fuels, Bank B might step in. So banks fear: “We’ll lose business, but emissions won’t go down.”

      This is why collective action matters — not individual PR pledges.

      So what’s the core criticism in reports like Banking on Climate Chaos?

      Not that banks should:

      shut off fossil fuels overnight

      But that they:

      publicly promise climate action

      privately fund expansion of fossil fuels

      Especially:

      new oil and gas fields

      long-life infrastructure that locks emissions in for decades

      That’s the hypocrisy the report is calling out.

    1. We’re bringing a social experience to Anytype by making spaces more interactive. We start with the concept of one space = one group = one chat. Then we’ll expand to include discussions on objects, enabling forum-like use cases. It will significantly improve collaborative use cases. You’ll chat and discuss your pages and files in the same end-to-end encrypted and local-first way.

      Acá hay transiciones en los siguientes cuadrantes:

      Cardumem toma una ruta alterna y más sencilla para explorar transiciones similares.

      1. Inicia por el wiki, como software documental asíncrono.
      2. Se conectará con HedgeDoc como software documetal síncrono.
      3. Se conectará con Hypothesis como software dialógico asíncrono.
      4. Implementará progresivamente funcionalidades síncronas vía sistemas hipermedia en tiempo real.

      La idea de local primero ocurrirá debido a que el servidor puede correr de manera local o remota.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Subhramanian et al. carefully examined how microglia adapt their surveillance strategies during chronic neurodegeneration, specifically in prion-infected mice. The authors used ex vivo time-lapse imaging and in vitro strategies and found that reactive microglia adopt a highly mobile, "kiss-and-ride" behavior, contrasting the more static surveillance typical of homeostatic microglia. The manuscript provides fundamental mechanistic insights into the dynamics of microglia-neuron interactions, implicates P2Y6 signaling in regulating mobility, and suggests that intrinsic reprogramming of microglia might underlie this behavior, the conclusions are therefore compelling.

      Strengths:

      (1) The novelty of the study is high, particularly the demonstration that microglia lose territorial confinement and dynamically migrate from neuron to neuron under chronic neurodegeneration.

      (2) The possible implications of a stimulus-independent high mobility in reactive microglia are particularly striking. Although this is not fully explored.

      (3) The use of time-lapse imaging in organotypic slices rather than overexpression models provided a more physiological approach.

      (4) Microglia-neuron interactions in neurodegeneration have broad implications for understanding the progression of diseases, such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, that are associated with chronic inflammation.

      Weaknesses:

      Previous weaknesses were addressed.

    2. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      This is a nice paper focused microglial responses to different clinical stages of prion infection in acute brain slices. The key here is the use of time-lapse imaging that captures the dynamics of microglial surveillance, including morphology, migration, and intracellular neuron/microglial contacts. The authors use a myeloid GFP-labeled transgenic mouse to track microglia in SSLOW-infected brain slices, quantifying differences in motility and microglial-neuronal interactions via live fluorescence imaging. Interesting findings include the elaborate patterns of motility among microglia, the distinct types and durations of intracellular contacts, the potential role of calcium signaling in facilitating hypermobility, and the fact that this motion-promoting status is intrinsic to the microglia, persisting even after the cells have been isolated from infected brains. Although largely a descriptive paper, it offers mechanistic insights, including the role of calcium in supporting microglial movement, with bursts of signaling identified even within the time lapse format, and inhibition studies implicating the purinergic receptor and calcium transient regulator P2Y6 in migratory capacity.

      Strengths:

      (1) The focus on microglia activation and activity in the context of prion disease is interesting

      (2) Two different prions produce largely the same response

      (3) Use of time-lapse provides insight into the dynamics of microglia, distinguishing between types of contact - mobility vs motility - and providing insight on the duration/transience and reversibility of extensive somatic contacts that include brief and focused connections in addition to soma envelopment.

      (4) Imaging window selection (3 hours) guided by prior publications documenting preserved morphology, activity, and gene expression regulation up to 4 hours.

      (5) The distinction between high- and low-mobility microglia is interesting, especially given that hypermobility seems to be an innate property of the cells.

      (6) The live-imaging approach is validated by fixed tissue confocal imaging.

      (7) The variance in duration of neuron/microglia contacts is interesting, although there is no insight into what might dictate which status of interaction predominates

      (8) The reversibility of the enveloping action, which is not apparently a commitment to engulfment, is interesting, as is the fact that only neurons are selected for this activity.

      (9) The calcium studies use the fluorescent dye calbryte-590, which picks up neuronal and microglial bursts -prolonged bursts are detected in enveloped neurons and in the hyper-mobile microglia - the microglial lead is followed up using MRS-2578 P2Y6 inhibitor that blunts the mobility of the microglia

      Comments on revisions:

      The authors have addressed my concerns in full - I think this is a very nice addition to the literature.

    3. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review)

      The Cx3cr1/EGFP line labels all myeloid cells, which makes it difficult to conclude that all observed behaviors are attributable to microglia rather than infiltrating macrophages. The authors refer to this and include it as a limitation. Nonetheless, complementary confirmation by additional microglia markers would strengthen their claims. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comment regarding the cellular identity of the enveloping myeloid cells. As suggested, we performed triple co-immunostaining of SSLOW-infected Cx3cr1/EGFP mice using markers for neurons (NeuN), myeloid cells (IBA1), and resident microglia (TMEM119 or P2Y12). Because formic acid treatment used to deactivate prions abolishes the EGFP signal, we relied on IBA1 staining to identify the myeloid population. Our results confirmed that IBA1⁺ cells exhibiting the envelopment behavior are also TMEM119⁺ and P2Y12⁺, consistent with a resident microglial phenotype. These new data are presented in Figures S3 and S4 and described in the final section of the Results.

      Although the authors elegantly describe dynamic surveillance and envelopment hypothesis, it is unclear what the role of this phenotype is for disease progression, i.e., functional consequences. For example, are the neurons that undergo sustained envelopment more likely to degenerate? 

      We appreciate this important question regarding the functional implications of neuronal envelopment. At present, technical limitations prevent us from continuously tracking the fate of individual enveloped neurons in prion-infected mice. Nevertheless, our recent study demonstrated that P2Y12 knockout increases the prevalence of neuronal envelopment and accelerates disease progression (Makarava et al., 2025, J. Neuroinflammation). These findings suggest that while microglial envelopment may represent an adaptive response to increased neuronal surveillance demands, excessive envelopment, as observed in the absence of P2Y12, appears to be maladaptive. A new paragraph has been added to the Discussion to address this point.

      Moreover, although the increase in mobility is a relevant finding, it would be interesting for the authors to further comment on what the molecular trigger(s) is/are that might promote this increase. These adaptations, which are at least long-lasting, confer apparent mobility in the absence of external stimuli. 

      We thank the reviewer for this thoughtful suggestion. The molecular mechanisms underlying the increased mobility of microglia in prion-infected brains remain to be identified, and we plan to pursue this question in future studies. One possibility we briefly discuss in the revised manuscript is that proinflammatory signaling, mediated by secreted cytokines or interleukins, may drive this phenotype. Supporting this hypothesis, recent work has shown that IFNγ enhances microglial migration in the adult mouse cortex (doi:10.1073/pnas.2302892120). This work has been cited in the revised manuscript.

      The authors performed, as far as I could understand, the experiments in cortical brain regions. There is no clear rationale for this in the manuscript, nor is it clear whether the mobility is specific to a particular brain region. This is particularly important, as microglia reactivity varies greatly depending on the brain region. 

      We appreciate this insightful comment highlighting the importance of regional determinants of microglial reactivity, which indeed aligns with our ongoing research interests. In our previous studies, neuronal envelopment by microglia was observed consistently across all prion-affected brain regions exhibiting neuroinflammation. Assuming that envelopment requires microglial mobility, it is reasonable to speculate that microglia are mobile in all brain regions affected by prions and displaying neuroinflammatory responses. In the current study, we focused exclusively on the cortex because this region was used for quantifying the prevalence of neuronal envelopment as a function of disease progression in our prior work (DOI: 10.1172/JCI181169), which guided the present study design. Our ongoing investigations indicate that the prevalence of envelopment is region-dependent and correlates with microglial reactivity/the degree of neuroinflammation. In prion diseases, the degree of microglial reactivity is dictated by the tropism of specific prion strains to distinct brain regions. Notably, our prior studies have shown that strain-specific sialylation patterns of PrP<sup>Sc</sup> glycans play a key role in determining both regional strain tropism and the extent of neuroinflammatory activation (DOI: 10.3390/ijms21030828, DOI: 10.1172/JCI138677). In response to this comment, we have added a brief rationale for using the cortex in the Results section.

      It would be relevant information to have an analysis of the percentage of cells in normal, sub-clinical, early clinical, and advanced stages that became mobile. Without this information, the speed/distance alone can have different interpretations.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. The percentage of mobile cells across normal, sub-clinical, early clinical, and advanced disease stages is presented in Figure 3b and described in the final paragraph of the section “Enveloping behavior of reactive myeloid cells.”

      Reviewer #2 (Public review)

      The number of individual cells tracked has been provided, but not the number of individual mice. The sex of the mice is not provided. 

      We used N = 3 animals per group throughout the study; this information has now been added to the figure legends. Animals of both sexes were included in random proportions. The sex information is now listed for each experiment in the Animals subsection of the Methods.

      The statistical approach is not clear; was each cell treated as a single observation? 

      Yes, with the exception of the heat map in Figure 2d, all mobility parameters are analyzed and presented at the level of individual cells, with each cell treated as an independent observation. The primary aim of this study is to characterize behavioral patterns of single reactive myeloid cells. Analyzing data at the cell level allows us to capture the full distribution of cell behaviors and to preserve biologically meaningful heterogeneity within and across animals. By contrast, averaging values per animal would largely mask this variability. In the heat map in Figure 2d, data are averaged per animal, specifically to illustrate inter-animal variability within each group and to visualize changes across disease progression.

      The potential for heterogeneity among animals has not been addressed. 

      To address this concern, we now include a new Supplemental Figure (Figure S4)  presenting the data using Superplots, in which individual cells are shown as dots, animal-level average as circles, and group means calculated based on animals as black horizontal lines. These plots demonstrate that cell mobility measures are highly consistent across animals within each group, indicating limited inter-animal heterogeneity.

      Validation of prion accumulation at each clinical stage of the disease is not provided. 

      We now provide validation of PrP<sup>Sc</sup> accumulation across disease stages by Western blot, along with quantitative analysis, in a new Supplemental Figure (Figure S2). This confirms progressive PrP<sup>Sc</sup> accumulation with advancing disease.

      How were the numerous captures of cells handled to derive morphological quantitative values? Based on the videos, there is a lot of movement and shape-shifting.

      The following description has been added to Methods to clarify morphology analysis: For microglial morphology analysis, we quantified morphological parameters (radius, area, perimeter, and shape index) for individual EGFP⁺ cells in each time frame of the time-lapse recordings using the TrackMate 7.13.2 plugin in FIJI. Parameter values for each cell were then averaged across the entire three-hour imaging period to obtain a single mean value per cell.

      While it is recognized that there are limits to what can be measured simultaneously with live imaging, the authors appear to have fixed tissues from each time point too - it would be very interesting to know if the extent or prion accumulation influences the microglial surveillance - i.e., do the enveloped ones have greater pathology. 

      This is very interesting question which is difficult to answer due to technical challenges in monitoring the pathology or faith of individual neuronal cells as a function of their envelopment in live prion-infected animals. Our previous work revealed that both accumulation of total PrP<sup>Sc</sup> in a brain and  accumulation of PrP<sup>Sc</sup> specifically in lysosomal compartments of microglia due to phagocytosis precedes the onset of neuronal envelopment (DOI: 10.1172/JCI181169).  Moreover, the onset of neuronal envelopment occurred after a noticeable decline in neuronal levels of Grin1, a subunit of the NMDA receptor essential for synaptic plasticity. Reactive microglia were observed to envelop Grin1-deficient neurons, suggesting that microglia respond to neuronal dysfunction. However, considering that envelopment is very dynamic and - in most cases - reversible, correlating the degree of envelopment with dysfunction of individual neurons is technically challenging.

      Recommendations for the authors

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) I recommend performing additional immunostaining using microglial markers to address specificity. 

      These new data showing immunostaining for markers of resident microglia TMEM119 and P2Y12 are presented in Figures S6 and S7 and described in the final section of the Results.

      (2) The authors can at least further discuss the functional consequences of their findings in further detail. 

      A new paragraph has been added to the Discussion to address this point.

      (3) Quantify the % of cells that become mobile in the different conditions. 

      The percentage of mobile cells across normal, sub-clinical, early clinical, and advanced disease stages is presented in Figure 3b and described in the final paragraph of the section “Enveloping behavior of reactive myeloid cells.”

      (4) Improve method details on the brain regions used and further expand the statistical section. 

      We have expanded the Statistical Analysis section to indicate whether statistical comparisons and mean values were calculated at the single-cell level or the animal level for each analysis. The specific statistical tests used and the number of animals (N) are now reported in the corresponding figure legends. The sex of animals is provided in Table 1 (Methods). Only the cortical region was examined in this study; this information is stated in the Methods and is now also noted in the figure legends for clarity.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors): 

      (1) More details on members of the PY2 receptor family expressed in microglia would be helpful. The study highlights a previously published prion-induced decline in the expression of P2Y12, a microglial marker that is required for intracellular neuron-microglial contacts, and P2Y6, involved in calcium transients, which is required for hypermotility. How are members of this family of receptors regulated at the gene and/or protein level in microglial and given their responsiveness to nucleotide ligands, are other members implicated in the properties being quantified here? 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comment. To address this point, we examined the expression of multiple P2Y receptors and ATP-gated P2X channels known to contribute to microglial surveillance, activation, motility, and phagocytosis, alongside the activation markers Tlr2, Cd68, and Trem2. Bulk brain transcript analyses indicated that all examined genes were upregulated in SSLOW-infected mice relative to controls (new Figure S5a). However, because microglial proliferation substantially increases microglial numbers during prion disease progression, bulk tissue measurements do not necessarily reflect per-cell expression levels. Therefore, we normalized gene expression values to the microglia-specific marker Tmem119, whose per-cell expression remains stable across disease stages (Makarava et al., 2025, J. Neuroinflammation). After normalization, Tlr2, Cd68, and Trem2 were increased approximately 10-, 6-, and 4-fold, respectively. In contrast, P2 receptor genes showed more modest changes: P2ry6 increased ~3-fold, P2ry13 ~2-fold, and P2rx7 ~1.3-fold, while P2rx4 remained unchanged (Figure S5a). Within the scope of the present study, we focused on P2Y6 due to (i) its role in regulating calcium transients, (ii) the magnitude of its upregulation relative to other P2 receptors, and (iii) its highly microglia-specific expression in the CNS. We note that currently available commercial P2Y6 antibodies lack sufficient specificity, making reliable assessment of protein-level expression challenging.

      (2) Is P2Y6 expressed in any other cell type that might account for the blunted mobility of the microglia? The authors mention P2Y12 also identifies the GFP cells; however, it would be beneficial to highlight the specificity of the target in the ex vivo treatment of the infected slices.

      In the brain, both P2Y12 and P2Y6 are considered highly specific to resident microglia under physiological and neuroinflammatory conditions. P2Y12 is, in fact, widely used as a canonical marker of homeostatic and resident microglia. While P2Y6 is also expressed in peripheral myeloid cells such as macrophages, our phenotypic characterization indicates that the cells exhibiting neuronal envelopment are TMEM119⁺ and P2Y12⁺, consistent with a resident microglial identity. These data, including new analyses added to the revised manuscript, support that the cells responding to P2Y6 signaling in our ex vivo slice experiments are resident microglia.

      (3) The fluorescent mouse lacks Cx3cr1 - have the authors investigated why there were no apparent consequences, at least in the context of prion infection? Are there functional redundancies that might be harnessed? Does this impact the generalizability of the findings here?

      The role of Cx3cr1 in prion disease has been directly examined in two independent studies (doi: 10.1099/jgv.0.000442; doi: 10.1186/1471-2202-15-44). One study reported no effect of Cx3cr1 deficiency on disease incubation time, whereas the other observed only a minor difference. Importantly, both studies found no detectable alterations in microglial activation patterns, cytokine expression, or PrP<sup>Sc</sup> deposition in Cx3cr1-deficient mice compared to wild-type controls. Our own data (Figure S1) are consistent with these findings: disease course and PrP<sup>Sc</sup> deposition were comparable between Cx3cr1/EGFP and wild-type mice. Moreover, we observed reactive microglial envelopment of neurons in both genotypes. Microglia isolated from SSLOW-infected Cx3cr1/EGFP mice also displayed similarly elevated mobility in vitro, in agreement with our previous observations of high mobility of microglia isolated from SSLOW-infected wild-type mice (Makarava et al., 2025, J. Neuroinflammation). Taken together, these results indicate that Cx3cr1 is not a key determinant of reactive microglial mobility or envelopment behavior in prion disease. Thus, the use of the Cx3cr1/EGFP reporter line does not compromise the generalizability of our conclusions.

      (4) The distinction between high mobility and low mobility microglia is interesting - is there any evidence to suggest that the slow-moving microglia are actually a separate class - do enveloping microglia exhibit both mobility states - can the authors comment on plasticity here? 

      We appreciate this insightful comment, which closely aligns with our ongoing interests. At present, we do not have evidence to support that high- versus low-mobility microglia represent distinct molecular phenotypes. Given that our time-lapse imaging spans only a three-hour window, it remains unclear whether these mobility states reflect stable cell-intrinsic properties or transient phases within a dynamic surveillance process. Notably, we observed that individual cells can transition between more stationary, neuron-associated states and highly mobile states within the same imaging session. In future work, we intend to investigate whether prolonged interactions with neuronal somas or other microenvironmental cues may drive diversification of reactive myeloid cell phenotypes.

      (5) In the discussion, the authors speculate about "collective coordinated decision making" - that seems a stretch unless greater context is provided. The fact that several microglia can be found in contact with an individual neuron and that each microglia can connect with multiple neurons simultaneously is certainly interesting; however, evidence for hive behavior is entirely lacking.

      We agree with the reviewer that our previous wording overstated the interpretation. The statement regarding collective decision-making has been removed.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Siddiqui et al. show that C. elegans prefers certain bacterial strains that have been supplemented with the essential amino acid (EEA) leucine. They convincingly show that some leucine enriched bacteria stimulate the production of isoamyl alcohol (IAA). IAA is an attractive odorant that is sensed by the AWC. The authors an identify a receptor, SRD-12, that is expressed in the AWC chemosensory neurons and is required for chemotaxis to IAA. The authors propose that IAA is a predominant olfactory cue that determines diet preference in C. elegans. Since leucine is an EAA, the authors propose that worm IAA sensing allows the animal provides a proxy mechanism to identify EAA rich diets.

      Strengths:

      The authors propose IAA as a predominant olfactory cue that determines diet preference in C. elegans providing molecular mechanism underlying diet selection. They show that wild isolates of C. elegans have strong chemotactic response to IAA indicating that IAA is an ecologically relevant odor for the worm. The paper is well written, and the presented data are convincing and well organized. This is an interesting paper that connects chemotactic response with bacterially produced odors and thus provides an understanding how animals adapt their foraging behavior through the perception of molecules that may indicate the nutritional value.

      Weaknesses:

      Major: While I do like the way the authors frame C. elegans IAA sensing as mechanisms to identify leucine (EAA) rich diets, it is not fully clear whether bacterial IAA production is a proxy for bacterial leucine levels.

      (1) Can the authors measure leucine (or other EAA) content of the different CeMbio strains? This would substantiate the premise in the way they frame this in the introduction. While the authors convincingly show that leucine supplementation induces IAA production in some strains, it is not clear if there are lower leucine levels in the different in the non-preferred strains.

      (2) It is not clear whether the non-preferred bacteria in Figure 1A and 1B have the ability to produce IAA. To substantiate the claim that C. elegans prefers CEent1, JUb66, and BIGb0170 due to their ability to generate IAA from leucine, it would be measure IAA levels in non-preferred bacteria (+ and - leucine supplementation). If the authors have these data it would be good to include this.

      (3) The authors would strengthen their claim if they could show that deletion or silencing ilvE enzyme reduces IAA levels and eliminates the increased preference upon leucine supplementation.

      (4) While the three preferred bacteria possess the ilvE gene, it is not clear whether this enzyme is present in the other non-preferred bacterial strains. As far as I know, the CeMbio strains have been sequenced, so it should be easy to determine if the non-preferred bacteria possess the capacity to make IAA. Does expression of ilvE in e.g. E. coli increase its preference index or are the other genes in the biosynthesis pathway missing?

      (5) It is strongly implied that leucine rich diets are beneficial to the worm. Do the authors have data to show the effect on leucine supplementation on C. elegans healthspan, life-span or broodsize?

      Comments on revisions:

      (1) The authors have addressed most of the earlier questions. The main unresolved issue is the link between iaa production is a reflection of bacterial leucine levels. It is not clear if there are lower leucine levels in the different in non-preferred strains.

      The main conclusions that: 1. some bacterial strains can convert exogenous leucine into IAA which is an attractant to C. elegans. 2. The identification of a GPCR required for IAA responses are solid. These are important results that carry the paper. My outstanding concern remains with the overinterpretation of the framing that C. elegans IAA sensing is used as a mechanism to identify leucine (EAA) rich diets. It is fine to leave this a favorite hypothesis in the discussion but statements throughout the paper need to be nuanced without leucine measurement of the different bacterial strains. (Also since for the bacterial chemotaxis assays there were only done with a single concentration of leucine makes it difficult to infer bacterial leucine concentrations). I recommend softening claims related to leucine-rich diet detection unless quantitative measurements are provided.

      Part of the issue in the text lies in the difference between "supplemented" and "chemotaxis" (lab based constructs) and enriched and foraging (natural environment based). This is also the way it is set up in the introduction "Do animals use specific sensing mechanisms to find an EAA-enriched diet?". If enriched is used strictly the same as supplemented then it would be fine but in the text this distinction gets blurred and enriched drifts to the more ethological explanation.

      Then it is more than just semantics since leucine-supplemented diets are not something that occurs in the natural environment. IAA production by bacteria could be a signal for a leucine rich environment and it is fine to speculate about this in the discussion.

      Examples where the wording needs to be more precise to reflect the experimental results rather than the possible impact in its natural environment:

      The title:' The olfactory receptor SNIF-1 mediates foraging for leucine-rich diets in C. elegans"

      The intro:"Taken together, SNIF-1 regulates the dietary preference of worms to IAA-producing bacteria and thereby mediates the foraging behavior of C. elegans to leucine-enriched diets. Thus, IAA produced by bacteria is a dietary quality code for leucine-enriched bacteria."

      Results "Figure 1. C. elegans relies on odors to select leucine-enriched bacteria"

      Supplementation is used more in the text and the figure legends whereas headings and abstract use enriched. The experiments in the paper only describe leucine-supplemented experiments. So use I would supplemented instead of enriched when describing experiments for clarity.

      For instance:

      Page 4:"Microbial odors drive the preference of C. elegans for leucine-enriched diet"

      Page 5: "Altogether, these findings suggested that worms rely on odors to distinguish various bacteria and find leucine-enriched bacteria"

      Page 7: "Isoamyl alcohol odor is a signature for a leucine-enriched diet"

      Page 9: AWC odor sensory neurons facilitate the diet preference of C. elegans for leucine-enriched diets"

      page 20 "Leucine-enriched diets produce significantly higher levels of IAA odor, making up to 90% of their headspace"

      (2) As suggested in the first round of review the authors now add data IAA levels in non-preferred bacteria (+ and - leucine supplementation) in table S2. While it is good to have this data, the table is not very clear. Not clear what ND stands for in the table S2. Not determined or not detected? I assume not determined since some strains Jub44, BiGb0393 Jub134 produce IAA even in the absence of LEU. The authors mention that "the abundance of IAA in these strains is significantly less". However, the table just reflects yes or no. Can the authors give an indication of the concentration to understand what significantly less means? Fig. 2c at least gives a heat map.

      (3) On wormbase the gene is still called srd-12. The authors should seek permission to rename srd-12 to snif-1.

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment:

      This is an important study, supported by solid to convincing data, that suggests a model for diet selection in C. elegans. The significance is that while C. elegans has long been known to be attracted to bacterial volatiles, what specific bacterial volatiles may signify to C. elegans is largely unknown. This study also provides evidence for a possible odorant/GPCR pairing.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Siddiqui et al., investigate the question of how bacterial metabolism contributes to the attraction of C. elegans to specific bacteria. They show that C. elegans prefers three bacterial species when cultured in a leucine-enriched environment. These bacterial species release more isoamyl alcohol, a known C. elegans attractant, when cultured with leucine supplement than without leucine supplement. The study shows correlative evidence that isoamyl alcohol is produced from leucine by the Ehrlich pathway. In addition, they show that SRD-12 (SNIF-1) is likely a receptor for isoamyl alcohol because a null mutant of this receptor exhibits lower chemotaxis to isoamyl alcohol and lower preference for leucine-enriched bacteria.

      Strengths:

      (1) This study takes a creative approach to examine the question of what specific volatile chemicals released by bacteria may signify to C. elegans by examining both bacterial metabolism and C. elegans preference behavior. Although C. elegans has long been known to be attracted to bacterial metabolites, this study may be one of the first to examine the role of a specific bacterial metabolic pathway in mediating attraction.

      (2)  A strength of the paper is the identification of SRD-12 (SNIF-1) as a likely receptor for isoamyl alcohol. The ligands for very few olfactory receptors have been identified in C. elegans and so this is a significant addition to the field. The srd-12 (snif-1) null mutant strain will likely be a useful reagent for many labs examining olfactory and foraging behaviors.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The authors write that the leucine metabolism via the Ehrlich pathway is required for the production of isoamyl alcohol by three bacteria (CEent1, JUb66, BIGb0170), but their evidence for this is correlation and not causation. They write that the gene ilvE is a bacterial homolog of the first gene in the yeast Ehrlich pathway (it would be good to include a citation for this) and that the gene is present in these three bacterial strains. In addition, they show that this gene, ilvE, is upregulated in CEent1 bacteria upon exposure to leucine. To show causation, they need to knockout ilvE from one of these strains, show that the bacteria does not have increased isoamyl alcohol production when cultured on leucine, and that the bacteria is no longer attractive to C. elegans.

      Thank you for the comment. We have added the appropriate citation [1,2]. We agree that worms’ diet preference for the preferred strains upon ilvE knockout will further strengthen the claim for IAA being used as a proxy for leucine-enriched diet. Currently, protocols and tools for genetic manipulations for CeMbio strains are not available, making this experiment not feasible at this time.  

      (2) The authors examine three bacterial strains that C. elegans showed increased preference when grown with leucine supplementation vs. without leucine supplementation. However, there also appears to be a strong preference for another strain, JUb0393, when grown on plus leucine (Figure 1B). It would be good to include statistics and criteria for selecting the three strains.

      Thanks for your comment. We agree that for Pantoea nemavictus, JUb393, worms seem to prefer the leucine supplemented (+ LEU) bacteria over unsupplemented (-LEU). However, when given a choice between the individual CeMbio bacteria and E. coli OP50, worms showed preference for only CEent1, JUb66, and BIGb0170 (Figure 1F). Consequently, CEent1, JUb66, and BIGb0170 were selected for further analyses. We have included statistics for Figure 1B-C and Figure S1A-G with details mentioned in the figure legend. 

      (3) Although the behavioral evidence that srd-12 (snif-1) gene encodes a receptor for isoamyl alcohol is compelling, it does not meet the standard for showing that it is an olfactory receptor in C. elegans. To show it is indeed a likely receptor one or more of the following should be done:

      (a) Calcium imaging of AWC neurons in response to isoamyl alcohol in the receptor mutant with the expectation that the response would be reduced or abolished in the mutant compared to wildtype.

      (b)"A receptor swap" experiment where the SRD-12 (SNIF-1) receptor is expressed in AWB repulsive neuron in SRD-12 (SNIF-1) receptor mutant background with the expectation that with receptor swap C. elegans will now be repulsed from isoamyl alcohol in chemotaxis assays (experiment from Sengupta et al., 1996 odr-10 paper).

      Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. While the lab currently does not have the necessary expertise to conduct calcium imaging of neurons, we have performed additional experiments to confirm the requirements of AWC neurons for SNIF-1 function. We generated transgenic worms with extrachromosomal array expressing snif-1 under (a) AWC-specific promoter, odr-1, and (b) AWB-specific promoter, str-1. As shown in new panel 6H in the revised manuscript and Author response image 1, we found that overexpression of snif-1 in AWC neurons completely rescues the chemotaxis defect of snif-1 mutant (referred at VSL2401), whereas upon the “receptor swap" in AWB neurons IAA is sensed as a repellent.  

      Author response image 1.

      (A) Chemotaxis index (CI) of WT, VSL2401, VSL2401 [AWCp::snif-1] and VSL2401 [AWBp::snif-1] worms to IAA at 1:1000 dilution. Significant differences are indicated as **** P ≤ 0.0001 determined by one-way ANOVA followed by post hoc Dunnett’s multiple comparison test. Error bars indicate SEM (n≥15).

      (4) The authors conclude that C. elegans cannot detect leucine in chemotaxis assays. It is important to add the method for how leucine chemotaxis assay was done in order to interpret these results. Because leucine is not volatile if leucine is put on the plates immediately before the worms are added (as in a traditional odor chemotaxis assay), there is no leucine gradient for the worm to detect. It would be good to put leucine on the plate several hours before worms are introduced so worms have the possibility to be able to detect the gradient of leucine (for example, see Wakabayashi et al., 2009).

      Previously, the chemotaxis assays with leucine were performed like traditional odor chemotaxis assays. We also performed chemotaxis assay as detailed in Shingai et al 2005[3]. Leucine was spotted on the assay plates 5 hours prior to the introduction of worms on the plates. As shown in new panel S1H in the revised manuscript, wild-type worms do not show response to leucine in the modified chemotaxis assay.

      We have included the experimental details for leucine chemotaxis assays in the revised manuscript.  

      (5) The bacterial preference assay entitled "odor-only assay" is a misleading name. In the assay, C. elegans is exposed to both volatile chemicals (odors) and non-volatile chemicals because the bacteria are grown on the assay plate for 12 hours before the worms are introduced to the assay plate. In that time, the bacteria is likely releasing non-volatile metabolites into the plate which may affect the worm's preference. A true odor-only assay would have the bacteria on the lid and the worms on the plate.

      The ‘odor-only’ diet preference assay does not allow for non-volatile chemicals to reach worms. We achieved this by using tripartite dishes where the compartments containing worms and bacterial odors are separated by polystyrene barriers. At the time of the assay, worms were spotted in a separate compartment from that of bacteria (as shown in schematic 1A). The soluble metabolites released by the bacteria during their growth will accumulate in the agar within the bacterial compartment alone such that worms only encounter the volatile metabolites produced by bacteria wafting past the polystyrene barrier.

      (6) The findings of the study should be discussed more in the context of prior literature. For example, AWC neurons have been previously shown to be involved in bacterial preference (Harris et al., 2014; Worthy et al., 2018). In addition, CeMbio bacterial strains (the strains examined in this study) have been previously shown to release isoamyl alcohol (Chai et al. 2024).

      Thanks for the suggestion. We have modified the Discussion section to discuss the study in the light of relevant prior literature.  

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Siddiqui et al. show that C. elegans prefers certain bacterial strains that have been supplemented with the essential amino acid (EEA) leucine. They convincingly show that some leucine enriched bacteria stimulate the production of isoamyl alcohol (IAA). IAA is an attractive odorant that is sensed by the AWC. The authors an identify a receptor, SRD-12 (SNIF-1), that is expressed in the AWC chemosensory neurons and is required for chemotaxis to IAA. The authors propose that IAA is a predominant olfactory cue that determines diet preference in C. elegans. Since leucine is an EAA, the authors propose that worm IAA sensing allows the animal provides a proxy mechanism to identify EAA rich diets.

      Strengths:

      The authors propose IAA as a predominant olfactory cue that determines diet preference in C. elegans providing molecular mechanism underlying diet selection. They show that wild isolates of C. elegans have a strong chemotactic response to IAA indicating that IAA is an ecologically relevant odor for the worm. The paper is well written, and the presented data are convincing and well organized. This is an interesting paper that connects chemotactic response with bacterially produced odors and thus provides an understanding of how animals adapt their foraging behavior through the perception of molecules that may indicate the nutritional value.

      Weaknesses:

      Major:

      While I do like the way the authors frame C. elegans IAA sensing as mechanisms to identify leucine (EAA) rich diets it is not fully clear whether bacterial IAA production is a proxy for bacterial leucine levels.

      (1) Can the authors measure leucine (or other EAA) content of the different CeMbio strains? This would substantiate the premise in the way they frame this in the introduction. While the authors convincingly show that leucine supplementation induces IAA production in some strains, it is not clear if there are lower leucine levels in the different in non-preferred strains.

      Thanks for your suggestion. Estimating leucine levels in various bacteria will provide useful information, and we hope to do so in future studies.

      (2) It is not clear whether the non-preferred bacteria in Figure 1A and 1B have the ability to produce IAA. To substantiate the claim that C. elegans prefers CEent1, JUb66, and BIGb0170 due to their ability to generate IAA from leucine, it would measure IAA levels in non-preferred bacteria (+ and - leucine supplementation). If the authors have these data it would be good to include this.

      Thanks for the suggestion. We have included the table indicating the presence or absence of IAA production by all the bacteria under + LEU and – LEU conditions (Table S2). Some of the nonpreferred bacteria indeed produce isoamyl alcohol. However, the abundance of IAA in these strains is significantly less than in the preferred bacteria.  

      Using the available genomic sequence data, we found that all CeMbio strains encode IlvE-like transaminase enzymes[4]. This suggests that presumably all the bacteria have the metabolic capacity to make alpha-ketoisocaproate (an intermediate in IAA biosynthetic pathway) from leucine. However, the regulation of metabolic flux is likely to be quite complex in various bacteria.  

      (3) The authors would strengthen their claim if they could show that deletion or silencing ilvE enzyme reduces IAA levels and eliminates the increased preference upon leucine supplementation.

      We agree that testing worms’ diet preference for the preferred strains upon ilvE knockout will further strengthen the claim for IAA being crucial for finding leucine-enriched diet. Currently the lab does not have the necessary expertise and standardize protocols to do genetic manipulations for the CeMbio strains.

      (4) While the three preferred bacteria possess the ilvE gene, it is not clear whether this enzyme is present in the other non-preferred bacterial strains. As far as I know, the CeMbio strains have been sequenced so it should be easy to determine if the non-preferred bacteria possess the capacity to make IAA. Does the expression of ilvE in e.g. E. coli increase its preference index or are the other genes in the biosynthesis pathway missing?

      Thanks for the suggestion. Using the available genomic sequence data, we find that all the bacteria in the CeMbio collection possess IlvE-like transaminase necessary for synthesis of alphaketoisocaproate, key metabolite in leucine turn over as well as precursor for IAA [4]. E. coli has an IlvE encoding gene in its genome [2]. However, we do not find IAA in the headspace of E. coli either with or without leucine supplementation. This indicates either (i) E. coli lacks enzymes for subsequent steps in IAA biosynthesis or (ii) leucine provided under the experimental regime is not sufficient to shift the metabolic flux to IAA production.  

      Previous studies have suggested that in yeast, the final two steps leading to IAA production are catalyzed by decarboxylase and dehydrogenase enzymes1. The genomic and metabolic flux data available for CeMbio do not describe specific enzymes leading up to IAA synthesis [4].  

      (5) It is strongly implied that leucine-rich diets are beneficial to the worm. Do the authors have data to show the effect on leucine supplementation on C. elegans healthspan, life-span or broodsize?

      Edwards et al. 2015 reported a 15% increase in the lifespan of worms upon 1 mM leucine supplementation [5]. Wang et al 2018 also showed lifespan extension upon 1 mM and 10 mM leucine supplementation. They also reported that while leucine supplementation did not have any effect on brood size, it did make worms more resistant to heat, paraquat, and UV-stress [6]. These studies have been included in the discussion section.

      Other comments:

      Page 6. Figure 2c. While the authors' conclusions are correct based on AWC expts. it would be good at this stage to include the possibility that odors that enriched in the absence of leucine may be aversive.

      Thanks for the comment. We have tested the chemotaxis response of the worms for most of the odors produced by CeMbio strains without leucine supplementation. We did not find any odor that is aversive to worms. However, we cannot completely rule out the possibility that a low abundance of aversive odor in the headspace of the bacteria was missed.

      Interestingly, we did identify 2-nonanone, a known repellent, in the headspace of the preferred bacteria upon leucine supplementation. However, the abundance of 2-nonanone in headspace of bacteria is relatively low (less than 1% for CEent1, and JUb66, and ~10% for BIGb0170). This suggests that the relative abundance of odors in an odor bouquet may be a relevant factor in determining worms’ reference.  

      Page 6. IAA increases 1.2-4 folds upon leucine supplementation. If the authors perform a chemotaxis assay with just IAA with 1-2-4 fold differences do you get the shift in preference index as seen with the bacteria? i.e. is the difference in IAA concentration sufficient to explain the shift in bacterial PI upon leucine supplementation? Other attractants such as Acetoin and isobutanol go up in -Leu conditions.

      Thanks for the suggestion. As shown in Figure S2H and S2I, when given a choice between a concentration of IAA (1:1000 dilution) attractive to worms and a 4-fold higher amount of IAA, worms chose the latter. This result suggests that worms can distinguish between relatively small difference in concentrations of IAA.

      We agree that the relative abundance of Acetoin and Isobutanol is high in -LEU conditions. The presence of other attractants in - LEU conditions should skew the preference of worms for – LEU bacteria. However, we found that worms prefer + LEU bacteria (Figure 1B), suggesting that the abundance of IAA mainly influences the diet preference of the worms.  

      Page 14-15. The authors identify a putative IAA receptor based on expression studies. I compliment the authors for isolating two CRISPR deletion alleles. They show that the srd-12 (snif-1) mutants have obvious defects in IAA chemotaxis. Very few ligand-odorant receptors combinations have been identified so this is an important discovery. CenGen data indicate that srd-12 (snif-1) is expressed in a limited set of neurons. Did the authors generate a reporter to show the expression of srd-12 (snif-1)? This is a simple experiment that would add to the characterization of the SRD-12 (SNIF-1) receptor. Rescue experiments would be nice even though the authors have independent alleles. To truly claim that SRD-12 (SNIF-1) is the ligand for IAA and activates the AWC neurons would require GCamp experiments in the AWC neuron or heterologous expression system. I understand that GCamp imaging might not be part of the regular arsenal of the lab but it would be a great addition (even in collaboration with one of the many labs that do this regularly). Comparing AWC activity using GCaMP in response IAA-producing bacteria with high leucine levels in both wild-type and SRD-12 (SNIF-1) deficient backgrounds, would further support their narrative. I leave that to the authors.

      Thanks for your comments and suggestions. To address this comment, we rescued snif-1 mutant (referred as VSL2401) with extrachromosomal array expressing snif-1 under AWC-specific promoter as well as its native promoter. As shown in Figure 6H and Author response image 2, we find that both transgenic lines show a complete rescue of chemotaxis response to isoamyl alcohol. To find where snif-1 is expressed, we generated a transgenic line of worms expressing GFP under snif-1 promoter, and mCherry under odr-1 promoter (to mark AWC neurons). As shown in Figure 6I, we found that snif-1 is expressed faintly in many neurons, with strong expression in one of the two AWC neurons marked by odr-1::mCherry. This result suggests that SNIF-1 is expressed in AWC neuron.

      We hope to perform GCaMP assay and further characterization of SNIF-1 in the future.

      Author response image 2.

      Chemotaxis index (CI) of WT, VSL2401, VSL2401 [AWCp:: snif-1] and VSL2401 [snif-1p::snif-1] worms to IAA at 1:1000 dilution. Significant differences are indicated as **** P ≤ 0.0001 determined by one-way ANOVA followed by post hoc Dunnett’s multiple comparison test. Error bars indicate SEM (n≥15).

      Minor:

      Page 4 "These results suggested that worms can forage for diets enriched in specific EAA, leucine...." More precise at this stage would be to state " These results indicated that worms can forage for diets supplemented with specific EAA...".

      We have changed the statement in the revised manuscript.

      Page 5."these findings suggested that worms not only rely on odors to choose between two bacteria but also to find leucine enriched bacteria" This statement is not clear to me and doesn't follow the data in Fig. S2. Preferred diets in odorant assays are the IAA producing strains.

      Thanks for your comment. We have revised the manuscript to make it clear. “Altogether, these findings suggested that worms rely on odors to distinguish different bacteria and find leucineenriched bacteria”. This statement concludes all the data shown in Figure 1 and Figure S1.  

      Page 5. Figure S2A provides nice and useful data that can be part of the main Figure 1.

      Thanks for the comment. We have incorporated the data from Figure S2A to main Figure 1.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors first tested whether EAA supplementation increases olfactory preference for bacterial food for a variety of bacterial strains. Of the EAAs, they found only leucine supplementation increased olfactory preference (within a bacterial strain), and only for 3 of the bacterial strains tested. Leucine itself was not found to be intrinsically attractive.

      They determined that leucine supplementation increases isoamyl alcohol (IAA) production in the 3 preferred bacterial strains. They identify the biochemical pathway that catabolizes leucine to IAA, showing that a required enzyme for this pathway is upregulated upon supplementation.

      Consistent with earlier studies, they find that AWC olfactory neuron is primarily responsible for increased preference for IAA-producing bacteria.

      Testing volatile compounds produced by bacteria and identified by GC/MS, and identified several as attractive, most of them require AWC for the full effect. Adaptation assays were used to show that odorant levels produced by bacterial lawns were sufficient to induce olfactory adaptation, and adaptation to IAA reduced chemotaxis to leucine-supplemented lawns. They then showed that IAA attractiveness is conserved across wild strains, while other compounds are more variable, suggesting IAA is a principal foraging cue.

      Finally, using the CeNGEN database, they developed a list of candidate IAA receptors. Using behavioral tests, they show that mutation of srd-12 (snif-1) greatly impairs IAA chemotaxis without affecting locomotion or attraction to another AWC-sensed odor, PEA.

      Comments

      This study will be of great interest in the field of C. elegans behavior, chemical senses and chemical ecology, and understanding of the sensory biology of foraging.

      Strengths:

      The identification of a receptor for IAA is an excellent finding. The combination of microbial metabolic chemistry and the use of natural bacteria and nematode strains makes an extremely compelling case for the ecological and adaptive relevance of the findings.

      Weaknesses:

      AWC receives synaptic input from other chemosensory neurons, and thus could potentially mediate navigation behaviors to compounds detected in whole or in part by those neurons. Language concluding detection by AWC should be moderated (e.g. p9 "worms sense an extensive repertoire...predominantly using AWC") unless it has been demonstrated.

      Thanks for your comment. We have modified the manuscript to incorporate the suggestion.

      srd-12 (snif-1) is not exclusively expressed in AWC. Normally, cell-specific rescue or knockdown would be used to demonstrate function in a specific cell. The authors should provide such a demonstration or explain why they are confident srd-12 (snif-1) acts in AWC.

      Thanks for the comment. We have performed AWC-specific rescue of snif-1 in mutant worms. As shown in Figure 6H, we found that AWC neurons specific rescue completely recovered the chemotaxis defect of the snif-1 mutant (referred as VSL2401) for IAA. In addition, snif-1 is expressed in one of the AWC neurons.

      A comparison of AWC's physiological responses between WT and srd-12 (snif-1), preferably in an unc13 background, would be nice. Even further, the expression of srd-12 (snif-1) in a different neuron type and showing that it confers responsiveness to IAA (in this case, inhibition) would be very convincing.

      Thanks for the suggestion. We have performed a receptor swap experiment, where snif-1 is misexpressed in AWB neurons. We find that these worms show slight but significant repulsion to IAA compared to WT and snif-1 mutant worms (Author response image 1).

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor:

      Please consider all of the reviewer comments. In particular, as noted in the individual reviews, the strength of the evidence would be bolstered by additional experiments to demonstrate that the iLvE enzyme affects IAA levels in the preferred bacteria. The reviewers note that the authors haven't shown that IAA production is a reflection of leucine content. Are the non-preferred bacteria low on leucine or lack iLvE or IAA synthesis pathways? Further, more direct evidence that SRD-12 (SNIF-1) is in fact the primary IAA receptor would further strengthen the study. The authors should also be aware that geographic distance for wild isolate C. elegans may not directly correlate with phylogenetic distance. This should be assessed/discussed for the strains used.

      Thanks for the suggestions. Some of these have been addressed in response to reviewers. Thanks for your comments about possible disconnect between geographical and phylogenetic distances amongst natural isolates used here.

      By analyzing the phylogenetic tree generated using neighbor-joining algorithm available at CaeNDR database, we found that QX1211 and JU3226 are phylogenetically close, but the remaining isolates fall under different clades separated by long phylogenetic distances [7,8].  

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      (1) In the first sentence of the third paragraph of the introduction, C. elegans are described as "soildwelling." Although C. elegans has been described as soil-dwelling in the past, current research indicates they are most often found on rotten fruit, compost heaps and other bacterial-rich environments, not soil. "All Caenorhabditis species are colonizers of nutrient- and bacteria-rich substrates and none of them is a true soil nematode." from Kiontke, K. and Sudhaus, W. Ecology of Caenorhabditis species (WormBook).

      Your specific comment about C. elegans’ habitat is well received. However, in that sentence we are referring to the chemosensory system of soil-dwelling animals in general, and not particularly C. elegans.

      (2) Figure 3K, the model would be clearer if leucine-rich diet -> volatile chemicals ->AWC (instead of leucine-rich diet -> AWC <- volatile chemicals). The leucine-rich diet results in the production of volatile chemicals which are detected by AWC.

      We have modified the figure to make it clearer.

      (3) Figure 4 - it would help to include a table summarizing the volatile chemicals that each bacteria releases. Then the reader could more easily evaluate whether the adaptation to each specific odor is consistent with the change in preference for the specific bacteria based on what it releases in its headspace. In addition, Figure 4 would help to clarify whether bacteria in these experiments were cultured with or without leucine supplementation.

      Table S2 summarizes the odors released by all the bacteria under + LEU and – LEU conditions.

      In Figure 4, adaptation was performed by odors of bacteria when cultured under leucineunsupplemented conditions.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Page 9. Previous studies e.g. Bargmann Hartwieg and Horvitz have shown IAA is sensed by the AWC. Would be good to cite appropriately.

      Thanks for the comment. The reference has been cited at p9 and p16.

      References:

      (1) Yuan, J., Mishra, P., and Ching, C.B. (2017). Engineering the leucine biosynthetic pathway for isoamyl alcohol overproduction in Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Journal of Industrial Microbiology and Biotechnology 44, 107-117. 10.1007/s10295-016-1855-2 %J Journal of Industrial Microbiology and Biotechnology.

      (2) Kanehisa, M., Furumichi, M., Sato, Y., Matsuura, Y., and Ishiguro-Watanabe, M. (2025). KEGG: biological systems database as a model of the real world. Nucleic Acids Res 53, D672-d677. 10.1093/nar/gkae909.

      (3) Shingai, R., Wakabayashi, T., Sakata, K., and Matsuura, T. (2005). Chemotaxis of Caenorhabditis elegans during simultaneous presentation of two water-soluble attractants, llysine and chloride ions. Comparative biochemistry and physiology. Part A, Molecular & integrative physiology 142, 308-317. 10.1016/j.cbpa.2005.07.010.

      (4) Dirksen, P., Assié, A., Zimmermann, J., Zhang, F., Tietje, A.M., Marsh, S.A., Félix, M.A., Shapira, M., Kaleta, C., Schulenburg, H., and Samuel, B.S. (2020). CeMbio - The Caenorhabditis elegans Microbiome Resource. G3 (Bethesda, Md.) 10, 3025-3039. 10.1534/g3.120.401309.

      (5) Edwards, C., Canfield, J., Copes, N., Brito, A., Rehan, M., Lipps, D., Brunquell, J., Westerheide, S.D., and Bradshaw, P.C. (2015). Mechanisms of amino acid-mediated lifespan extension in Caenorhabditis elegans. BMC genetics 16, 8. 10.1186/s12863-015-0167-2.

      (6) Wang, H., Wang, J., Zhang, Z.J.J.o.F., and Research, N. (2018). Leucine Exerts Lifespan Extension and Improvement in Three Types of Stress Resistance (Thermotolerance, AntiOxidation and Anti-UV Irradiation) in C. elegans. 6, 665-673.

      (7) Crombie, T.A., McKeown, R., Moya, N.D., Evans, Kathryn S., Widmayer, Samuel J., LaGrassa, V., Roman, N., Tursunova, O., Zhang, G., Gibson, Sophia B., et al. (2023). CaeNDR, the Caenorhabditis Natural Diversity Resource. Nucleic Acids Research 52, D850-D858. 10.1093/nar/gkad887 %J Nucleic Acids Research.

      (8) Cook, D.E., Zdraljevic, S., Roberts, J.P., and Andersen, E.C. (2017). CeNDR, the Caenorhabditis elegans natural diversity resource. Nucleic Acids Res 45, D650-d657. 10.1093/nar/gkw893.

    1. 実行環境のCPU数(os.process_cpu_count()が返す値)+4と32

      CPU数(長い文章)+4、と書いてあるのでそれがまとまりだとわかりにくいと思います。

      (os.process_cpu_count()が返す)実行環境のCPU数+4と32のどちらか

      だと読みやすいかな

    1. Note: This response was posted by the corresponding author to Review Commons. The content has not been altered except for formatting.

      Learn more at Review Commons


      Reply to the reviewers

      The PDF version of point-by-point response includes figures (I, II, III,... IX) that are not included in the manuscript nor in this post but serve to illustrate and clarify our replies to the reviewers' comments.

      Dear Editor,

      Many thanks for forwarding the comments from reviewers #1-#4 regarding our manuscript (Preprint #RC-2025-03087144), entitled "HIV-1 Envelope glycoprotein modulates CXCR4 clustering and dynamics on the T cell membrane", by Quijada-Freire A. et al.

      We have carefully reviewed all reviewer comments and prepared our specific, detailed responses. Alongside this, we have created a revised version of the manuscript to post them on BioRxiv, and we are pleased to announce that we will transfer this new version to an affiliate journal for consideration.

      Reviewer #1

      Thank you very much for considering that our manuscript evaluates an important question and that the reagents used are well prepared and characterized. We also much appreciate that you consider the information generated as potentially useful for those studying HIV infection processes and strategies to prevent infection.

      • While a single particle tracking routine was applied to the data, it's not clear how the signal from a single GFP was defined and if movement during the 100 ms acquisition time impacts this. My concern would be that the routine is tracking fluctuations, and these are related to single particle dynamics, it appears from the movies that the density or the GFP tagged receptors in the cells is too high to allow clear tracking of single molecules. SPT with GFP is very difficult due to bleaching and relatively low quantum yield. Current efforts in this direction that are more successful include using SNAP tags with very photostable organic fluorophores. The data likely does mean something is happening with the receptor, but they need to be more conservative about the interpretation. *

      Some of the paradoxical effects might be better understood through deeper analysis of the SPT data, particularly investigation of active transport and more detailed analysis of "immobile" objects. Comments on early figures illustrate how this could be approached. This would require selecting acquisitions where the GFP density is low enough for SPT and performing a more detailed analysis, but this may be difficult to do with GFP.

      When the authors discuss clusters of 3, how do they calibrate the value of GFP and the impact of diffusion on the measurement. One way to approach this might be single molecules measurements of dilute samples on glass vs in a supported lipid bilayer to map the streams of true immobility to diffusion at >1 µm2/sec.

      We fully understand the reviewer's apprehensions regarding the application of these high-end biophysical techniques, in particular the associated complexity of the data analysis. We provide below extensive explanations on our methodology, which we hope will satisfactorily address all of the reviewer's concerns.

      We would first like to emphasize that the experimental conditions and the quantitative analysis used in our current experiments are similar to the established protocols and methodologies applied by our group previously (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022; Gardeta et al. Frontiers in Immunol., 2022; García-Cuesta et al.eLife, 2024; Gardeta et al. Cell. Commun. Signal., 2025) and by others (Calebiro et al. PNAS, 2013; Jaqaman et al. Cell,2011; Mattila et al. Immunity, 2013; Torreno-Pina et al. PNAS, 2014; Torreno-Pina et al. PNAS, 2016).

      As SPT (single-particle tracking) experiments require low-expressing conditions in order to follow individual trajectories (Manzo & García-Parajo Rep. Prog. Phys., 2015), we transiently transfected Jurkat CD4+ cells with CXCR4-AcGFP or CXCR4R334X-AcGFP. At 24 h post-transfection, cells expressing low CXCR4-AcGFP levels were selected by a MoFlo Astrios Cell Sorter (Beckman-Coulter) to ensure optimal conditions for SPT. Using Dako Qifikit (DakoCytomation), we quantified the number of CXCR4 receptors and found ∼8,500 - 22,000 CXCR4-AcGFP receptors/cell, which correspond to a particle density ∼2 - 4.5 particles/mm2 (Figure I, only for review purposes) and are similar to the expression levels found in primary human lymphocytes.

      These cells were resuspended in RPMI supplemented with 2% FBS, NaPyr and L-glutamine and plated on 96-well plates for at least 2 h. Cells were centrifuged and resuspended in a buffer with HBSS, 25 mM HEPES, 2% FBS (pH 7.3) and plated on glass-bottomed microwell dishes (MatTek Corp.) coated with fibronectin (FN) (Sigma-Aldrich, 20 mg/ml, 1 h, 37{degree sign}C). To observe the effect of the ligand, we coated dishes with FN + CXCL12; FN + X4-gp120 or FN + VLPs, as described in material and methods; cells were incubated (20 min, 37{degree sign}C, 5% CO2) before image acquisition.

      For SPT measurements, we use a total internal reflection fluorescence (TIRF) microscope (Leica AM TIRF inverted) equipped with an EM-CCD camera (Andor DU 885-CS0-#10-VP), a 100x oil-immersion objective (HCX PL APO 100x/1.46 NA) and a 488-nm diode laser. The microscope was equipped with incubator and temperature control units; experiments were performed at 37{degree sign}C with 5% CO2. To minimize photobleaching effects before image acquisition, cells were located and focused using the bright field, and a fine focus adjustment in TIRF mode was made at 5% laser power, an intensity insufficient for single-particle detection that ensures negligible photobleaching. Image sequences of individual particles (500 frames) were acquired at 49% laser power with a frame rate of 10 Hz (100 ms/frame). The penetration depth of the evanescent field used was 90 nm.

      We performed automatic tracking of individual particles using a very well established and common algorithm first described by Jaqaman (Jaqaman et al. Nat. Methods, 2008). Nevertheless, we would stress that we implemented this algorithm in a supervised fashion, i.e., we visually inspect each individual trajectory reconstruction in a separate window. Indeed, this algorithm is not able to quantify merging or splitting events.

      We follow each individual fluorescence spot frame-by-frame using a three-by-three matrix around the centroid position of the spot, as it diffuses on the cell membrane. To minimize the effect of photon fluctuations, we averaged the intensity over 20 frames. Nevertheless, to assure the reviewer that most of the single molecule traces last for at least 50 frames (i.e., 5 seconds), we provide the following data and arguments. We currently measure the photobleaching times from individual CD86-AcGFP spots exclusively having one single photobleaching step to guarantee that we are looking at individual CD86-AcGFP molecules. The distribution of the photobleaching times is shown below (Figure II, only for review purposes). Fitting of the distribution to a single exponential decay renders a t0 value of ~5 s. Thus, with 20 frames averaging, we are essentially measuring the whole population of monomers in our experiments. As the survival time of a molecule before photobleaching will strongly depend on the excitation conditions, we used low excitation conditions (2 mW laser power, which corresponds to an excitation power density of ~0.015 kW/cm2 considering the illumination region) and longer integration times (100 ms/frame) to increase the signal-to-background for single GFP detection while minimizing photobleaching.

      To infer the stoichiometry of receptor complexes, we also perform single-step photobleaching analysis of the TIRF trajectories to establish the existence of different populations of monomers, dimers, trimers and nanoclusters and extract their percentage. Some representative trajectories of CXCR4-AcGFP with the number of steps detected are shown in new Supplementary Figure 1.

      The emitted fluorescence (arbitrary units, a.u.) of each spot in the cells is quantified and normalized to the intensity emitted by monomeric CD86-AcGFP spots that strictly showed a single photobleaching step (Dorsch et al. Nat. Methods,2009). We have preferred to use CD86-AcGFP in cells rather than AcGFP on glass to exclude any potential effect on the different photodynamics exhibited by AcGFP when bound directly to glass. We have also previously shown pharmacological controls to exclude CXCL12-mediated receptor clustering due to internalization processes (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018) that, together with the evaluation of single photobleaching steps and intensity histograms, allow us to exclude the presence of vesicles in our data. Thus, the dimers, trimers and nanoclusters found in our data do correspond to CXCR4 molecules on the cell surface. Finally, distribution of monomeric particle intensities, obtained from the photobleaching analysis, was analyzed by Gaussian fitting, rendering a mean value of 980 {plus minus} 86 a.u. This value was then used as the monomer reference to estimate the number of receptors per particle in both cases, CXCR4-AcGFP and CXCR4R334X-AcGFP (new Supplementary Figure 1).

      • I understand that the CXCL12 or gp120 are attached to the substrate with fibronectin for adhesion. I'm less clear how how that VLPs are integrated. Were these added to cells already attached to FN?*

      For TIRF-M experiments, cells were adhered to glass-bottomed microwell dishes coated with fibronectin, fibronectin + CXCL12, fibronectin + X4-gp120, or fibronectin + VLPs. As for CXCL12 and X4-gp120, the VLPs were attached to fibronectin taking advantage of electrostatic interactions. To clarify the integration of the VLPs in these assays, we have stained the microwell dishes coated with fibronectin and those coated with fibronectin + VLPs with wheat germ agglutinin (WGA) coupled to Alexa647 (Figure III, only for review purposes) and evaluated the staining by confocal microscopy. These results indicate the presence of carbohydrates on the VLPs and are, therefore, indicative of the presence of VLPs on the fibronectin layer.

      Moreover, it is important to remark that the effect of the VLPs on CXCR4 behavior at the cell surface observed by TIRF-M confirmed that the VLPs remained attached to the substrate during the experiment.

      • Fig 1A- The classification of particle tracks into mobile and immobile is overly simplistic description that goes back to bulk FRAP measurements and it not really applicable to single molecule tracking data, where it's rare to see anything that is immobile and alive. An alternative classification strategy uses sub-diffusion, normal diffusion and active diffusion (or active transport) to descriptions and particles can transition between these classes over the tracking period. Fig 1B- this data might be better displayed as histograms showing distributions within the different movement classes.*

      In agreement with the reviewer's commentary, the majority of the particles detected in our TIRF-M experiments were indeed mobile. However, we also detected a variable, and biologically appreciable, percentage of immobile particles depending on the experimental condition analyzed (Figure 1A in the main manuscript). To establish a stringent threshold for identifying these immobile particles under our specific experimental conditions, we used purified monomeric AcGFP proteins immobilized on glass coverslips. Our analysis demonstrated that 95% of these immobilized proteins showed a diffusion coefficient £0.0015 mm2/s; consequently, this value was established as the cutoff to distinguish immobile from mobile trajectories. While the observation of truly immobile entities in a dynamic, living system is rare, the presence of these particles under our conditions is biologically significant. For instance, the detection of large, immobile receptor nanoclusters at the plasma membrane is entirely consistent with facilitating key cellular processes, such as enabling the robust signaling cascade triggered by ligand binding or promoting the crucial events required for efficient viral entry into the cells.

      Regarding the mobile receptors (defined as those with D1-4 values exceeding 0.0015 mm2/s), we observed distinct diffusion profiles derived from mean square displacement (MSD) plots (Figure V) (Manzo & García-Parajo Rep. Prog. Phys., 2015), which were further classified based on motion, using the moment scaling spectrum (MSS) (Ewers et al. PNAS, 2005). Under all experimental conditions, the majority of mobile particles, ∼85%, showed confined diffusion: for example under basal conditions, without ligand addition, ∼90% of mobile particles showed confined diffusion, ∼8.5% showed Brownian-free diffusion and ∼1.5% exhibited directed motion (new Supplementary Figure 5A in the main manuscript). These data have been also included in the revised manuscript to show, in detail, the dynamic parameters of CXCR4.

      Due to the space constraints, it is very difficult to include all the figures generated. However, to ensure comprehensive assessment and transparency (for the purpose of this review), we have included below representative plots of the MSD values as a function of time from individual trajectories, showing different types of motion obtained in our experiments (Figure IV, only for review purposes).

      • Fig 1C,D- It would be helpful to see a plot of D vs MSI at a single particle level. In comparing C and D I'm surprised there is not a larger difference between CXCL12 and X4-gp120. It would also be very important to see the behaviour of X4-gp120 on the CXCR4 deficient Jurkat that would provide a picture of CD4 diffusion. The CXCR4 nanoclustering related to the X4-gp120 could be dominated by CD4 behaviour.*

      As previously described, all analyses were performed under SPT conditions (see previous response to point 1 in this reply). Figure 1C details the percentage of oligomers (>3 receptors/particle) calibrated using Jurkat CD4+ cells electroporated with monomeric CD86-AcGFP (Dorsch et al. Nat. Methods, 2009). The monomer value was determined by analyzing photobleaching steps as described in our previous response to point 1.

      In our experiments, we observed a trend towards a higher number of oligomers upon activation with CXCL12 compared with X4-gp120. This trend was further supported by measurements of Mean Spot Intensity. However, the values are also influenced by the number of larger spots, which represents a minor fraction of the total spots detected.

      The differences between the effect triggered by CXCL12 or X4-gp120 might also be attributed to a combination of factors related to differences in ligand concentration, their structure, and even to the technical requirements of TIRF-M. Both ligands are in contact with the substrate (fibronectin) and the specific nature of this interaction may differ between both ligands and influence their accessibility to CXCR4. Moreover, the requirement of the prior binding of gp120 to CD4 before CXCR4 engagement, in contrast to the direct binding of CXCL12 to CXCR4, might also contribute to the differences observed.

      We previously reported that CXCL12-mediated CXCR4 dynamics are modulated by CD4 co-expression (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018). We have now detected the formation of CD4 heterodimers with both CXCR4 and CXCR4R334X, and found that these conformations are influenced by gp120-VLPs. In the present manuscript, we did not focus on CD4 clustering as it has been extensively characterized previously (Barrero-Villar et al. J. Cell Sci., 2009; Jiménez-Baranda et al. Nat. Cell. Biol., 2007; Yuan et al. Viruses, 2021). Regarding the investigation of the effects of X4-gp120 on CXCR4-deficient Jurkat cells, which would provide a picture of CD4 diffusion, we would note that a previous report has already addressed this issue using single-molecule super-resolution imaging, and revealed that CD4 molecules on the cell membrane are predominantly found as individual molecules or small clusters of up to 4 molecules, and that the size and number of these clusters increases upon virus binding or gp120 activation (Yuan et al. Viruses, 2021).

      • Fig S1D- This data is really interesting. However, if both the CD4 and the gp120 have his tags they need to be careful as poly-His tags can bind weakly to cells and increasing valency could generate some background. So, they should make the control is fair here. Ideally, using non-his tagged person of sCD4 and gp120 would be needed ideal or they need a His-tagged Fab binding to gp120 that doesn't induce CXCR4 binding.*

      New Supplementary Figure 2D shows that X4-gp120 does not bind Daudi cells (these cells do not express CD4) in the absence of soluble CD4. While the reviewer is correct to state that both proteins contain a Histidine Tag, cell binding is only detected if X4-gp120 binds sCD4. Nonetheless, we have included in the revised Supplementary Figure 2D a control showing the negative binding of sCD4 to Daudi cells in the absence of X4-gp120. Altogether, these results confirm that only sCD4/X4-gp120 complexes bind these cells.

      • Fig S4- Panel D needs a scale bar. I can't figure out what I'm being shown without this.*

      Apologies. A scale bar has been included in this panel (new Supplementary Figure 6D).

      Reviewer #2

      • This study is well described in both the main text and figures. Introduction provides adequate background and cites the literature appropriately. Materials and Methods are detailed. Authors are careful in their interpretations, statistical comparisons, and include necessary controls in each experiment. The Discussion presents a reasonable interpretation of the results. Overall, there are no major weaknesses with this manuscript.*

      We very much appreciate the positive comments of the reviewer regarding the broad interest and strength of our work.

      • NL4-3deltaIN and immature HIV virions are found to have less associated gp120 relative to wild-type particles. It is not obvious why this is the case for the deltaIN particles or genetically immature particles. Can the authors provide possible explanations? (A prior paper was cited, Chojnacki et al Science, 2012 but can the current authors provide their own interpretation.)*

      Our conclusion from the data is actually exactly the opposite. As shown in Figure 2D, the gp120 staining intensity was higher for NL4-3DIN particles (1,786 a.u.) than for gp120-VLPs (1,223 a.u.), indicating lower expression of Env proteins in the latter. Furthermore, analysis of gp120 intensity per particle (Figure 2E) confirmed that gp120-VLPs contained fewer gp120 molecules per particle than NL4-3DIN virions. These levels were comparable with, or even lower than, those observed in primary HIV-1 viruses (Zhu et al. Nature, 2006). This reduction was a direct consequence of the method used to generate the VLPs, as our goal was to produce viral particles with minimal gp120 content to prevent artifacts in receptor clustering that might occur using high levels of Env proteins in the VLPs to activate the receptors.

      This misunderstanding may arise from the fact that we also compared Gag condensation and Env distribution on the surface of gp120-VLPs with those observed in genetically immature particles and integrase-defective NL4-3ΔIN virions, which served as controls. STED microscopy data revealed differences in Env distribution between gp120-VLPs and NL4-3ΔIN virions, supporting the classification of gp120-VLPs as mature particles (Figure 2 A,B).

      Reviewer #3

      We thank the reviewer for considering that our work offers new insights into the spatial organization of receptors during HIV-1 entry and infection and that the manuscript is well written, and the findings significant.

      • For mechanistic basis of gp120-CXCR4 versus CXCL12-CXCR4 differences. Provide additional structural or biochemical evidence to support the claim that gp120 stabilises a distinct CXCR4 conformation compared to CXCL12. If feasible, include molecular modelling, mutagenesis, or cross-linking experiments to corroborate the proposed conformational differences.*

      We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this point. The specific claim that gp120 stabilizes a conformation of CXCR4 that is distinct from the CXCL12-bound state was not explicitly stated in our manuscript, although we agree that our data strongly support this possibility. It is important to consider that CXCL12 binds directly to CXCR4, whereas gp120 requires prior sequential binding to CD4, and its subsequent interaction is with a CXCR4 molecule that is already forming part of the CD4/CXCR4 complex, as demonstrated by our FRET experiments and supported by previous studies (Zaitseva et al. J. Leuk. Biol., 2005; Busillo & Benovic Biochim. Biophys. Acta, 2007; Martínez-Muñoz et al. PNAS, 2014). This difference makes it inherently complex to compare the conformational changes induced by gp120 and CXCL12 on CXCR4.

      However, our findings show that both stimuli induce oligomerization of CXCR4, a phenomenon not observed when mutant CXCR4R334X was exposed to the chemokine CXCL12 (García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022).

      1. CXCL12 induced oligomerization of CXCR4 but did not affect the dynamics of CXCR4R334X (Martinez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022). By contrast, X4-gp120 and the corresponding VLPs-which require initial binding to CD4 to engage the chemokine receptor-stabilized oligomers of both CXCR4 and CXCR4R334X.

      FRET analysis revealed distinct FRET50 values for CD4/CXCR4 (2.713) and CD4/CXCR4R334X (0.399) complexes, suggesting different conformations for each complex. Consistent with previous reports (Balabanian et al. Blood, 2005; Zmajkovicova et al. Front. Immunol., 2024; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022), the molecular mechanisms activated by CXCL12 are distinct when comparing CXCR4 with CXCR4R334X. For instance, CXCL12 induces internalization of CXCR4, but not of mutant CXCR4R334X. Conversely, X4-gp120 triggers approximately 25% internalization of both receptors. Similarly, CXCL12 does not promote CD4 internalization in cells co-expressing CXCR4 or CXCR4R334X, whereas X4-gp120 does, although CD4 internalization was significantly higher in cells co-expressing CXCR4.

      These findings suggest that CD4 influences the conformation and the oligomerization state of both co-receptors. To further support this hypothesis, we have conducted new in silico molecular modeling of CD4 in complex with either CXCR4 or its mutant CXCR4R334X using AlphaFold 3.0 (Abramson et al. Nature, 2024). The server was provided with both sequences, and the interaction between the two molecules for each protein was requested. It produced a number of solutions, which were then analyzed using the software ChimeraX 1.10 (Meng et al. Protein Sci., 2023). CXCR4 and its mutant, CXCR4R334X bound to CD4, were superposed using one of the CD4 molecules from each complex, with the aim of comparing the spatial positioning of CD4 molecules when interacting with CXCR4.

      As illustrated in Figure V (only for review purposes), the superposition of the CD4/CXCR4 complexes was complete. However, when CD4/CXCR4 complexes were superimposed with CD4/CXCR4R334X complexes using the same CD4 molecule as a reference, indicated by an arrow in the figure, a clear structural deviation became evident. The main structural difference detected was the positioning of the CD4 transmembrane domains when interacting with either the wild-type or mutant CXCR4. While in complexes with CXCR4, the angle formed by the lines connecting residues E416 at the C-terminus end of CD4 with N196 in CXCR4 was 12{degree sign}, for the CXCR4R334X complex, this angle increased to 24{degree sign}, resulting in a distinct orientation of the CD4 extracellular domain (Figure VI, only for review purposes).

      To further analyze the models obtained, we employed PDBsum software (Laskowski & Thornton Protein Sci., 2021) to predict the CD4/CXCR4 interface residues. Data indicated that at least 50% of the interaction residues differed when the CD4/CXCR4 interaction surface was compared with that of the CD4/CXCR4R334X complex (Figure VII, only for review purposes). It is important to note that while some hydrogen bonds were present in both complex models, others were exclusive to one of them. For instance, whereas Cys394(CD4)-Tyr139 and Lys299(CD4)-Glu272 were present in both CD4/CXCR4 and CD4/CXCR4R334X complexes, the pairs Asn337(CD4)-Ser27(CXCR4R334X) and Lys325(CD4)-Asp26(CXCR4R334X) were only found in CD4/CXCR4R334X complexes.

      These findings, which are consistent with our FRET results, suggest distinct interaction surfaces between CD4 and the two chemokine receptors. Overall, these results are compatible with differences in the spatial conformation adopted by these complexes.

      • For Empty VLP effects on CXCR4 dynamics: Explore potential causes for the observed effects of Env-deficient VLPs. It's valuable to include additional controls such as particles from non-producer cells, lipid composition analysis, or blocking experiments to assess nonspecific interactions. *

      As VLPs are complex entities, we thought that the relevant results should be obtained comparing the effects of Env(-) VLPs with gp120-VLPs. Therefore, we would first remark that regardless of the effect of Env(-) VLPs on CXCR4 dynamics, the most evident finding in this study is the strong effect of gp120-VLPs compared with control Env(-) VLPs. Nevertheless, regarding the effect of the Env(-) VLPs compared with medium, we propose several hypotheses. As several virions can be tethered to the cell surface via glycosaminoglycans (GAGs), we hypothesized that VLPs-GAGs interactions might indirectly influence the dynamics of CXCR4 and CXCR4R334X at the plasma membrane. Additionally, membrane fluidity is essential for receptor dynamics, therefore VLPs interactions with proteins, lipids or any other component of the cell membrane could also alter receptor behavior. It is well known that lipid rafts participate in the interaction of different viruses with target cells (Nayak & Hu Subcell. Biochem., 2004; Manes et al. Nat. Rev. Immunol., 2003; Rioethmullwer et al. Biochim. Biophys. Acta, 2006) and both the lipid composition and the presence of co-expressed proteins modulate ligand-mediated receptor oligomerization (Gardeta et al. Frontiers in Immunol., 2022; Gardeta et al. Cell. Commun. Signal., 2025). We have thus performed Raster Image Correlation Spectroscopy (RICS) analysis to assess membrane fluidity through membrane diffusion measurements on cells treated with Env(-) VLPs.

      Jurkat cells were labeled with Di-4-ANEPPDHG and seeded on FN and on FN + VLPs prior to analysis by RICS on confocal microscopy. The results indicated no significant differences in membrane diffusion under the treatment tested, thereby discarding an effect of VLPs on overall membrane fluidity (Figure VIII, only for review purposes).

      Nonetheless, these results do not rule out other non-specific interactions of Env(-) VLPs with membrane proteins that could affect receptor dynamics. For instance, it has been reported that C-type lectin DC-SIGN acts as an efficient docking site for HIV-1 (Cambi et al. J. Cell. Biol., 2004; Wu & KewalRamani Nat. Rev. Immunol., 2006). However, a detailed investigation of these possible mechanisms is beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      • For Direct link between clustering and infection efficiency - Test whether disruption of CXCR4 clustering (e.g., using actin cytoskeleton inhibitors, membrane lipid perturbants, or clustering-deficient mutants) alters HIV-1 fusion or infection efficiency*.

      Designing experiments using tools that disrupt receptor clustering by interacting with the receptors themselves is difficult and challenging, as these tools bind the receptor and can therefore alter parameters such as its conformation and/or its distribution at the cell membrane, as well as affect some cellular processes such as HIV-1 attachment and cell entry. Moreover, effects on actin polymerization or lipids dynamics can affect not only receptor clustering but also impact on other molecular mechanisms essential for efficient infection.

      Many previous reports have, nonetheless, indirectly correlated receptor clustering with cell infection efficiency. Cholesterol plays a key role in the entry of several viruses. Its depletion in primary cells and cell lines has been shown to confer strong resistance to HIV-1-mediated syncytium formation and infection by both CXCR4- and CCR5-tropic viruses (Liao et al. AIDS Res. Hum. Retrovisruses, 2021). Moderate cholesterol depletion also reduces CXCL12-induced CXCR4 oligomerization and alters receptor dynamics (Gardeta et al. Cell. Commun. Signal., 2025). By restricting the lateral diffusion of CD4, sphingomyelinase treatment inhibits HIV-1 fusion (Finnegan et al. J. Virol., 2007). Depletion of sphingomyelins also disrupts CXCL12-mediated CXCR4 oligomerization and its lateral diffusion (Gardeta et al. Front Immunol., 2022). Additional reports highlight the role of actin polymerization at the viral entry site, which facilitates clustering of HIV-1 receptors, a crucial step for membrane fusion (Serrano et al. Biol. Cell., 2023). Blockade of actin dynamics by Latrunculin A treatment, a drug that sequesters actin monomers and prevents its polymerization, blocks CXCL12-induced CXCR4 dynamics and oligomerization (Martínez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018).

      Altogether, these findings strongly support our hypothesis of a direct link between CXCR4 clustering and the efficiency of HIV-1 infection.

      • CD4/CXCR4 co-endocytosis hypothesis - Support the proposed model with direct evidence from live-cell imaging or co-localization experiments during viral entry. Clarification is needed on whether internalization is simultaneous or sequential for CD4 and CXCR4.*

      When referring to endocytosis of CD4 and CXCR4, we only hypothesized that HIV-1 might promote the internalization of both receptors either sequentially or simultaneously. The hypothesis was based in several findings:

      1) Previous studies have suggested that HIV-1 glycoproteins can reduce CD4 and CXCR4 levels during HIV-1 entry (Choi et al. Virol. J., 2008; Geleziunas et al. FASEB J, 1994; Hubert et al. Eur. J. Immunol., 1995).

      2) Receptor endocytosis has been proposed as a mechanism for HIV-1 entry (Daecke et al. J. Virol., 2005; Aggarwal et al.Traffick, 2017; Miyauchi et al. Cell, 2009; Carter et al. Virology, 2011).

      3) Our data from cells activated with X4-gp120 demonstrated internalization of CD4 and chemokine receptors, which correlated with HIV-1 infection in PBMCs from WHIM patients and healthy donors.

      4) CD4 and CXCR4 have been shown to co-localize in lipid rafts during HIV-1 infection (Manes et al. EMBO Rep., 2000; Popik et al. J. Virol., 2002)

      5) Our FRET data demonstrated that CD4 and CXCR4 form heterocomplexes and that FRET efficiency increased after gp120-VLPs treatment.

      We agree with the reviewer that further experiments are required to test this hypothesis, however, we believe that this is beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      Minor Comments:

      • The conclusions rely solely on the HXB2 X4-tropic Env. It would strengthen the study to assess whether other X4 or dual-tropic strains induce similar receptor clustering and dynamics.*

      The primary goal of our current study was to investigate the dynamics of the co-receptor CXCR4 during HIV-1 infection, motivated by previous reports showing CD4 oligomerization upon HIV-1 binding and gp120 stimulation (Yuan et al.Viruses, 2021). We initially used a recombinant X4-gp120, a soluble protein that does not fully replicate the functional properties of the native HIV-1 Env. Previous studies have shown that Env consists of gp120 trimers, which redistribute and cluster on the surface of virions following proteolytic Gag cleavage during maturation (Chojnacki et al. Nat. Commun., 2017). An important consideration in receptor oligomerization studies is the concentration of recombinant gp120 used, as it does not accurately reflect the low number of Env trimers present on native HIV-1 particles (Hart et al. J. Histochem. Cytochem., 1993; Zhu et al. Nature, 2006). To address these limitations, we generated virus-like particles (VLPs) containing low levels of X4-gp120 and repeated the dynamic analysis of CXCR4. The use of primary HIV-1 isolates was limited, in this project, to confirm that PBMCs from both healthy donors and WHIM patients were equally susceptible to infection. This result using a primary HIV-1 virus supports the conclusion drawn from our in vitroapproaches. We thus believe that although the use of other X4- and dual-tropic strains may complement and reinforce the analysis, it is far beyond the scope of the current manuscript.

      • Given the observed clustering effects, it would be valuable to explore whether gp120-induced rearrangements alter epitope exposure to broadly neutralizing antibodies like 17b or 3BNC117. This would help connect the mechanistic insights to therapeutic relevance.*

      As 3BNC117, VRC01 and b12 are broadly neutralizing mAbs that recognize conformational epitopes on gp120 (Li et al. J. Virol., 2011; Mata-Fink et al. J. Mol. Biol., 2013), they will struggle to bind the gp120/CD4/CXCR4 complex and therefore may not be ideal for detecting changes within the CD4/CXCR4 complex. The experiment suggested by the reviewer is thus challenging but also very complex. It would require evaluating antibody binding in two experimental conditions, in the absence and in the presence of oligomers. However, our data indicate that receptor oligomerization is promoted by X4-gp120 binding, and the selected antibodies are neutralizing mAbs, so they should block or hinder the binding of gp120 and, consequently, receptor oligomerization. An alternative approach would be to study the neutralizing capacity of these mAbs on cells expressing CD4/CXCR4 or CD4/CXCR4R334X complexes. Variations in their neutralizing activity could be then extrapolated to distinct gp120 conformations, which in turn may reflect differences between CD4/CXCR4 and CD4/CXCR4R334X complexes.

      We thus assessed the ability of the VRC01 and b12, anti-gp120 mAbs, which were available in our laboratory, to neutralize gp120 binding on cells expressing CD4/CXCR4 or CD4/CXCR4R334X. Specifically, increasing concentrations of each antibody were preincubated (60 min, 37ºC) with a fixed amount of X4-gp120 (0.05 mg/ml). The resulting complexes were then incubated with Jurkat cells expressing CD4/CXCR4 or CD4/CXCR4R334X (30 min, 37ºC) and, finally, their binding was analyzed by flow cytometry. Although we did not observe statistically significant differences in the neutralization capacity of b12 or VRC01 for the binding of X4-gp120 depending on the presence of CXCR4 or CXCR4334X, we observed a trend for greater concentrations of both mAbs to neutralize X4-gp120 binding in Jurkat CD4/CXCR4 cells than in Jurkat CD4/CXCR4R334X cells (Figure IX, only for review purposes).

      These slight alterations in the neutralizing capacity of b12 and VRC01 mAbs may thus suggest minimal differences in the conformations of gp120 depending of the coreceptor used. We also detected that X4-gp120 and VLPs expressing gp120, which require initial binding to CD4 to engage the chemokine receptor, stabilized oligomers of both CXCR4 and CXCR4R334X, but FRET data indicated distinct FRET50 values between the partners, (2.713) for CD4/CXCR4 and (0.399) for CD4/CXCR4R334X (Figure 5A,B in the main manuscript). Moreover, we also detected significantly more CD4 internalization mediated by X4-gp120 in cells co-expressing CD4 and CXCR4 than in those co-expressing CD4 and CXCR4R334X (Figure 6 in the main manuscript). Overall these latter data and those included in Figures V, VI and VII of this reply, indicate distinct conformations within each receptor complexes.

      • TIRF imaging limits analysis to the cell substrate interface. It would be useful to clarify whether CXCR4 receptor clustering occurs elsewhere, such as at immunological synapses or during cell-to-cell contact.*

      In recent years, chemokine receptor oligomerization has gained significant research interest due to its role in modulating the ability of cells to sense chemoattractant gradients. This molecular organization is now recognized as a critical factor in governing directed cell migration (Martínez-Muñoz et al. Mol. Cell, 2018; García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022, Hauser et al.Immunity, 2016). In addition, advanced imaging techniques such as single-molecule and super-resolution microscopy have been used to investigate the spatial distribution and dynamic behaviour of CXCR4 within the immunological synapse in T cells (Felce et al. Front. Cell Dev. Biol., 2020). Building on these findings, we are currently conducting a project focused on characterizing CXCR4 clustering specifically within this specialized cellular region.

      • In LVP experiments, it would be useful to report transduction efficiency (% GFP+ cells) alongside MSI data to relate VLP infectivity with receptor clustering functionally.*

      These experiments were designed to validate the functional integrity of the gp120 conformation on the LVPs, confirming their suitability for subsequent TIRF microscopy. Our objective was to establish a robust experimental tool rather than to perform a high-throughput quantification of transduction efficiency. It is for that reason that these experiments were included in new Supplementary Figure S6, which also contains the complete characterization of gp120-VLPs and LVPs. In such experimental conditions, quantifying the percentage of GFP-positive cells relative to the total number of cells plated in each well is very difficult. However, in line with the reviewer's commentary and as we used the same number of cells in each experimental condition, we have included, in the revised manuscript, a complementary graph illustrating the GFP intensity (arbitrary units) detected in all the wells analyzed (new Supplementary Fig. 6E).

      • To ensure that differences in fusion events (Figure 7B) are attributable to target cell receptor properties, consider confirming that effector cells express similar levels of HIV-1 Env. Quantifying gp120 expression by flow cytometry or western blot would rule out the confounding effects of variable Env surface density.*

      In these assays (Figure 7B), we used the same effector cells (cells expressing X4-gp120) in both experimental conditions, ensuring that any observed differences should be attributable solely to the target cells, either JKCD4X4 or JKCD4X4R334X. For this reason, in Figure 7A we included only the binding of X4-gp120 to the target cells which demonstrated similar levels of the receptors expressed by the cells.

      • HIV-mediated receptor downregulation may occur more slowly than ligand-induced internalization. Including a 24-hour time point would help assess whether gp120 induces delayed CD4 or CXCR4 loss beyond the early effects shown and to better capture potential delayed downregulation induced by gp120.*

      The reviewer suggests using a 24-hour time point to facilitate detection of receptor internalization. However, such an extended incubation time may introduce some confounding factors, including receptor degradation, recycling and even de novo synthesis, which could affect the interpretation of the results. Under our experimental conditions, we observed that CXCL12 did not trigger CD4 internalization whereas X4-gp120 did. Interestingly, CD4 internalization depended on the co-receptor expressed by the cells.

      • Increase label font size in microscopy panels for improved readability.*

      Of course; the font size of these panels has been increased in the revised version.

      • Consider adding more references on ligand-induced co-endocytosis of CD4 and chemokine receptors during HIV-1 entry.*

      We have added more references to support this hypothesis (Toyoda et al. J. Virol., 2015; Venzke et al. J. Virol., 2006; Gobeil et al J. Virol., 2013).

      • For Statistical analysis. Biological replicates are adequate, and statistical tests are generally appropriate. For transparency, report n values, exact p-values, and the statistical test used in every figure legend and discussed in the results.*

      Thank you for highlighting the importance of transparency in statistical reporting. We confirm that the n values for all experiments have been included in the figure legends. The statistical tests used for each analysis are also clearly indicated in the figure legends, and the interpretation of these results is discussed in detail in the Results section. Furthermore, the Methods section specifies the tests applied and the thresholds for significance, ensuring full transparency regarding our analytical approach.

      In accordance with established conventions in the field, we have utilized categorical significance indicators (e.g., n.s., *, **, ***) within our figures to enhance readability and focus on biological trends. This approach is widely adopted in high-impact literature to prevent visual clutter. However, to ensure full transparency and reproducibility, we have ensured that the underlying statistical tests and thresholds are clearly defined in the respective figure legends and Methods section.

      Reviewer #4

      We thank the reviewer for considering that this work is presented in a clear fashion, and the main findings are properly highlighted, and for remarking that the paper is of interest to the retrovirology community and possibly to the broader virology community.

      We also agree on the interest that X4-gp120 clusters CXCR4R334X suggests a different binding mechanism for X4-gp120 from that of the natural ligand CXCL12, an aspect that we are now evaluating. These data also indicate that WHIM patients can be infected by HIV-1 similarly to healthy people.

      • The observation that "empty VLPs" reduce CXCR4 diffusivity is potentially interesting. However, it is not supported by the data owing to insufficient controls. The authors correctly discuss the limitations of that observation in the Discussion section (lines 702-704). However, they overinterpret the observation in the Results section (lines 509-512), suggesting non-specific interactions between empty VLPs, CD4 and CXCR4. I suggest either removing the sentence from the Results section or replacing it with a sentence similar to the one in the Discussion section.*

      In accordance with the reviewer`s suggestion, the sentence in the result section has been replaced with one similar to that found in the discussion section. In addition, we have performed Raster Image Correlation Spectroscopy (RICS) analysis using the Di-4-ANEPPDHQ lipid probe to assess membrane fluidity by means of membrane diffusion, and compared the results with those of cells treated with Env(-) VLPs. The results indicated that VLPs did not modulate membrane fluidity (Figure VIII in this reply). Nonetheless, these results do not rule out other potential non-specific interactions of the Env(-) VLPs with other components of the cell membrane that might affect receptor dynamics (see our response to point 2 of reviewer #3 p. 14-15 of this reply).

      • In the case of the WHIM mutant CXCR4-R334X, the addition of "empty VLPs" did not cause a significant change in the diffusivity of CXCR4-R334X (Figure 4B). This result is in contrast with the addition of empty VLPs to WT CXCR4. However, the authors neither mention nor comment on that result in the results section. Please mention the result in the paper and comment on it in relation to the addition of empty VLPs to WT CXCR4.*

      We would remark that the main observation in these experiments should focus on the effect of gp120-VLPs, and the results indicates that gp120-VLPs promoted clustering of CXCR4 and of CXCR4R334X and reduced their diffusion at the cell membrane. The Env(- ) VLPs were included as a negative control in the experiments, to compare the data with those obtained using gp120-VLPs. However, once we observed some residual effect of the Env(-) VLPs, we decided to give a potential explanation, formulated as a hypothesis, that the Env(-) VLPs modulated membrane fluidity. We have now performed a RICS analysis using Di-4-ANEPPDHQ as a lipid probe (Figure IX only for review purposes). The results suggest that Env(-) VLPs do not modulate cell membrane fluidity, although we do not rule out other potential interactions with membrane proteins that might alter receptor dynamics. We appreciate the reviewer's observation and agree that this result can be noted. However, since the main purpose of Figure 4B is to show that gp120-VLPs modulate the dynamics of CXCR4R334X rather than to remark that the Env(-) VLPs also have some effects, we consider that a detailed discussion of this specific aspect would detract from the central finding and may dilute the primary narrative of the study.

      Minor comments

      • It would be helpful for the reader to combine thematically or experimentally linked figures, e.g., Figures 3 and 4.*

      • Figures 3 and 4 are very similar. Please unify the colours in them and the order of the panels (e.g. Figure 3 panel A shows diffusivity of CXCR4, while Figure 4 panel A shows MSI of CXCR4-R334X).*

      While we considered consolidating Figures 3 and 4, we believe that maintaining them as separate entities enhances conceptual clarity. Since Figure 3 establishes the baseline dynamics for wild-type CXCR4 and Figure 4 details the distinct behavior of the CXCR4R334X mutant, keeping them separate allows the reader to fully appreciate the specificities of each system before making a cross-comparison.

      • Some parts of the Discussion section could be shortened, moved to the Introduction (e.g.,lines 648-651), or entirely removed (e.g.,lines 633-635 about GPCRs).*

      In accordance, the Discussion section has been reorganized and shortened to improve clarity.

      • I suggest renaming "empty VLPs" to "Env(−) VLPs" (or similar). The name empty VLPs can mislead the reader into thinking that these are empty vesicles.*

      The term empty VLPs has been renamed to Env(−) VLPs throughout the manuscript to more accurately reflect their composition. Many thanks for this suggestion.

      • Line 492 - please rephrase "...lower expression of Env..." to "...lower expression of Env or its incorporation into the VLPs...".*

      The sentence has been rephrased

      • Line 527 - The data on CXCL12 modulating CXCR4-R334X dynamics and clustering are not present in Figure 4 (or any other Figure). Please add them or rephrase the sentence with an appropriate reference. Make clear which results are yours.*

      • Line 532 - Do the data in the paper really support a model in which CXCL12 binds to CXCR4-R334X? If not, please rephrase with an appropriate reference.*

      Previous studies support the association of CXCL12 with CXCR4R334X (Balabanian et al. Blood, 2005; Hernandez et al. Nat Genet., 2003; Busillo & Benovic Biochim. Biophys. Acta, 2007). In fact, this receptor has been characterized as a gain-of-function variant for this ligand (McDermott et al. J. Cell. Mol. Med., 2011). The revised manuscript now includes these bibliographic references to support this commentary. In any case, our previous data indicate that CXCL12 binding does not affect CXCR4R334X dynamics (García-Cuesta et al. PNAS, 2022).

      • Line 695 - "...lipid rafts during HIV-1 (missing word?) and their ability to..." During what?*

      Many thanks for catching this mistake. The sentence now reads: "Although direct evidence for the internalization of CD4 and CXCR4 as complexes is lacking, their co-localization in lipid rafts during HIV-1 infection (97-99) and their ability to form heterocomplexes (22) strongly suggest they could be endocytosed together."

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      Referee #4

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      This paper provides new insights into the organisational changes of the X4-tropic HIV-1 co-receptor CXCR4 upon binding of the viral receptor-binding protein X4-gp120, either in its soluble form or when displayed on virus-like particles (VLPs) as Env. The study employs single-particle tracking total internal reflection fluorescence (SPT-TIRF) microscopy to quantify the dynamics and clustering of CXCR4 on CD4+ T cells. The data show that CXCR4 clusters in the presence of X4-gp120 and VLPs, a phenomenon also observed for the primary HIV-1 receptor CD4. The authors also show that a WHIM mutant of CXCR4 (CXCR4-R334X) that does not cluster in the presence of its natural ligand, CXCL12, clusters in the presence of X4-gp120 and VLPs.

      The following points should be clarified or improved prior to publication:

      Major comments:

      1. The observation that "empty VLPs" reduce CXCR4 diffusivity is potentially interesting. However, it is not supported by the data owing to insufficient controls. The authors correctly discuss the limitations of that observation in the Discussion section (lines 702-704). However, they overinterpret the observation in the Results section (lines 509-512), suggesting non-specific interactions between empty VLPs, CD4 and CXCR4. I suggest either removing the sentence from the Results section or replacing it with a sentence similar to the one in the Discussion section.
      2. In the case of the WHIM mutant CXCR4-R334X, the addition of "empty VLPs" did not cause a significant change in the diffusivity of CXCR4-R334X (Figure 4B). This result is in contrast with the addition of empty VLPs to WT CXCR4. However, the authors neither mention nor comment on that result in the results section. Please mention the result in the paper and comment on it in relation to the addition of empty VLPs to WT CXCR4.

      Minor comments:

      1. It would be helpful for the reader to combine thematically or experimentally linked figures, e.g., Figures 3 and 4.
      2. Figures 3 and 4 are very similar. Please unify the colours in them and the order of the panels (e.g. Figure 3 panel A shows diffusivity of CXCR4, while Figure 4 panel A shows MSI of CXCR4-R334X).
      3. Some parts of the Discussion section could be shortened, moved to the Introduction (e.g., lines 648-651), or entirely removed (e.g., lines 633-635 about GPCRs).
      4. I suggest renaming "empty VLPs" to "Env(−) VLPs" (or similar). The name empty VLPs can mislead the reader into thinking that these are empty vesicles.
      5. Line 492 - please rephrase "...lower expression of Env..." to "...lower expression of Env or its incorporation into the VLPs...".
      6. Line 527 - The data on CXCL12 modulating CXCR4-R334X dynamics and clustering are not present in Figure 4 (or any other Figure). Please add them or rephrase the sentence with an appropriate reference. Make clear which results are yours.
      7. Line 532 - Do the data in the paper really support a model in which CXCL12 binds to CXCR4-R334X? If not, please rephrase with an appropriate reference.
      8. Line 695 - "...lipid rafts during HIV-1 (missing word?) and their ability to..." During what?

      Significance

      In summary, the work is presented in a clear fashion, and the main findings are properly highlighted. The paper is of interest to the retrovirology community and possibly to the broader virology community. The findings are not entirely surprising because it has been shown previously that the binding of Env to CD4 mediates CD4 clustering, which would also suggest clustering of the co-receptor. Nonetheless, the paper provides strong evidence that CXCR4 clusters and changes its dynamics in the presence of CD4 and X4-gp120. Moreover, the evidence that X4-gp120 clusters CXCR4-R334X is of high interest because it suggests a different binding mechanism for X4-gp120 from that of the natural ligand CXCL12, raising questions for further research. The diffusivity data with empty VLPs require additional controls to strengthen the evidence. My expertise is in virology and structural biology. I did not comment on the technical aspects of the light-microscopy experiments in the study because these are beyond my expertise.

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      Referee #3

      Evidence, reproducibility and clarity

      The author investigates how the HIV-1 Env glycoprotein modulates the nanoscale organisation and dynamics of the CXCR4 co-receptor on CD4⁺ T cells. The author demonstrates that HIV-1 Env induces CXCR4 clustering distinct from that triggered by its natural ligand (CXCL12), implicating spatial receptor organization as a determinant of infection. This study investigates how HIV-1 Env (specifically X4-tropic gp120) alters the membrane organization and dynamics of the chemokine receptor CXCR4 and its WHIM-associated mutant, CXCR4R334X, in a CD4-dependent manner. Using single-particle tracking total internal reflection fluorescence microscopy (SPT-TIRF-M), the authors demonstrate that both soluble gp120 and virus-like particles (VLPs) displaying gp120 induce CXCR4 nanoclustering, reduce receptor diffusivity, and promote immobile nanoclusters of CXCR4 at the membrane of Jurkat T cells and primary CD4⁺ T cell blasts.The work offers new insights into the spatial organisation of receptors during HIV-1 entry and infection. The manuscript is well-written, and the findings are significant.

      Major Comments: 1. For mechanistic basis of gp120-CXCR4 versus CXCL12-CXCR4 differences

      Provide additional structural or biochemical evidence to support the claim that gp120 stabilises a distinct CXCR4 conformation compared to CXCL12.

      If feasible, include molecular modelling, mutagenesis, or cross-linking experiments to corroborate the proposed conformational differences. 2. For Empty VLP effects on CXCR4 dynamics

      Explore potential causes for the observed effects of Env-deficient VLPs. It's valuable to include additional controls such as particles from non-producer cells, lipid composition analysis, or blocking experiments to assess nonspecific interactions. 3. For Direct link between clustering and infection efficiency - Test whether disruption of CXCR4 clustering (e.g., using actin cytoskeleton inhibitors, membrane lipid perturbants, or clustering-deficient mutants) alters HIV-1 fusion or infection efficiency. 4. CD4/CXCR4 co-endocytosis hypothesis - Support the proposed model with direct evidence from live-cell imaging or co-localization experiments during viral entry. Clarification is needed on whether internalization is simultaneous or sequential for CD4 and CXCR4.

      Minor Comments: 1. The conclusions rely solely on the HXB2 X4-tropic Env. It would strengthen the study to assess whether other X4 or dual-tropic strains induce similar receptor clustering and dynamics. 2. Given the observed clustering effects, it would be valuable to explore whether gp120-induced rearrangements alter epitope exposure to broadly neutralizing antibodies like 17b or 3BNC117. This would help connect the mechanistic insights to therapeutic relevance. 3 . TIRF imaging limits analysis to the cell substrate interface. It would be useful to clarify whether CXCR4 receptor clustering occurs elsewhere, such as at immunological synapses or during cell-to-cell contact. 4. In LVP experiments, it would be useful to report transduction efficiency (% GFP+ cells) alongside MSI data to relate VLP infectivity with receptor clustering functionally. 5. To ensure that differences in fusion events (Figure 7B) are attributable to target cell receptor properties, consider confirming that effector cells express similar levels of HIV-1 Env. Quantifying gp120 expression by flow cytometry or western blot would rule out the confounding effects of variable Env surface density 6. HIV-mediated receptor downregulation may occur more slowly than ligand-induced internalization. Including a 24-hour time point would help assess whether gp120 induces delayed CD4 or CXCR4 loss beyond the early effects shown and to better capture potential delayed downregulation induced by gp120. 7. Increase label font size in microscopy panels for improved readability. 8. Consider adding more references on ligand-induced co-endocytosis of CD4 and chemokine receptors during HIV-1 entry. For Statistical analysis. Biological replicates are adequate, and statistical tests are generally appropriate. For transparency, report n values, exact p-values, and the statistical test used in every figure legend and discussed in the results.

      Referee cross-commenting

      Overall, the manuscript provides compelling mechanistic insight into HIV-1 entry by demonstrating Env-induced CXCR4 clustering, including in WHIM mutant receptors. While the core findings are well supported and of high interest, clarifications regarding Env trimer densities, receptor internalization, and the contribution of empty VLPs would further strengthen the work.

      Significance

      Nature and significance of the advance

      This work marks a conceptual and mechanistic breakthrough in understanding HIV-1 entry. It goes beyond the static view of Env-co-receptor interaction to show that nanoscale reorganization of CXCR4, distinct from chemokine-induced clustering, occurs during HIV-1 Env engagement and may be essential for infection Context within existing literature. Previous studies established Env-induced CD4 clustering (Yin et al., 2020) and chemokine-induced CXCR4 nanocluster formation (Martínez-Muñoz et al., 2018), but the exact nanoscale rearrangement of CXCR4 in the context of HIV-1 Env and physiological Env densities remains unquantified. This study addresses this gap using SPT-TIRF, STED microscopy, and functional assays.

      Audience and influence

      The findings will be of interest to researchers in HIV virology, membrane receptor biology, viral entry mechanisms, and therapeutic target development. The receptor-clustering aspect could also influence broader fields of study, such as GPCR organization and immune receptor signalling.

      Reviewer expertise

      I can evaluate HIV-1 entry mechanisms, viral glycoprotein-host-host-host receptor interactions, single-molecule fluorescence microscopy, and membrane protein dynamics. I am less equipped to evaluate the deep structural modelling aspects, though the in silico AlphaFold results are straightforward to interpret in context.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Lu and colleagues demonstrates convincingly that PRRT2 interacts with brain voltage-gated sodium channels to enhance slow inactivation in vitro and in vivo. The work is interesting and rigorously conducted. The relevance to normal physiology and disease pathophysiology (e.g., PRRT2-related genetic neurodevelopmental disorders) seems high. Some simple additional experiments could elevate the impact and make the study more complete.

      Strengths:

      Experiments are conducted rigorously, including experimenter blinding and appropriate controls. Data presentation is excellent and logical. The paper is well written for a general scientific audience.

      Weaknesses:

      There are a few missing experiments and one place where data are over-interpreted.

      (1) An in vitro study of Nav1.6 is conspicuously absent. In addition to being a major brain Na channel, Nav1.6 is predominant in cerebellar Purkinje neurons, which the authors note lack PRRT2 expression. They speculate that the absence of PRRT2 in these neurons facilitates the high firing rate. This hypothesis would be strengthened if PRRT2 also enhanced slow inactivation of Nav1.6. If a stable Nav1.6 cell were not available, then simple transient co-transfection experiments would suffice.

      (2) To further demonstrate the physiological impact of enhanced slow inactivation, the authors should consider a simple experiment in the stable cell line experiments (Figure 1) to test pulse frequency dependence of peak Na current. One would predict that PRRT2 expression will potentiate 'run down' of the channels, and this finding would be complementary to the biophysical data.

      (3) The study of one K channel is limited, and the conclusion from these experiments represents an over-interpretation. I suggest removing these data unless many more K channels (ideally with measurable proxies for slow inactivation) were tested. These data do not contribute much to the story.

      (4) In Figure 2, the authors should confirm that protein is indeed expressed in cells expressing each truncated PRRT2 construct. Absent expression should be ruled out as an explanation for absent enhancement of slow inactivation.

    2. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This paper reveals that the neuronal protein PRRT2, previously known for its association with paroxysmal dyskinesia and infantile seizures, modulates the slow inactivation of voltage-gated sodium ion (Nav) channels, a gating process that limits excitability during prolonged activity. Using electrophysiology, molecular biology, and mouse models, the authors show that PRRT2 accelerates entry of Nav channels into the slow-inactivated state and slows their recovery, effectively dampening excessive excitability. The effect seems evolutionarily conserved, requires the C-terminal region of PRRT2, and is recapitulated in cortical neurons, where PRRT2 deficiency leads to hyper-responsiveness and reduced cortical resilience in vivo. These findings extend the functional repertoire of PRRT2, identifying it as a physiological brake on neuronal excitability. The work provides a mechanistic link between PRRT2 mutations and episodic neurological phenotypes.

      Comments:

      (1) The precise structural interface and the molecular basis of gating modulation remain inferred rather than demonstrated.

      (2) The in vivo phenotype reflects a complex circuit outcome and does not isolate slow-inactivation defects per se.

      (3) Expression of PRRT2 in muscle or heart is low, so the cross isoform claims are likely of limited physiological significance.

      (4) The mechanistic separation between the trafficking of PRRT2 and its gating effects is not clearly resolved.

      (5) Additional studies with Nav1.6 should be carried out.

    3. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The manuscript by Lu and colleagues demonstrates convincingly that PRRT2 interacts with brain voltage-gated sodium channels to enhance slow inactivation in vitro and in vivo. The work is interesting and rigorously conducted. The relevance to normal physiology and disease pathophysiology (e.g., PRRT2-related genetic neurodevelopmental disorders) seems high. Some simple additional experiments could elevate the impact and make the study more complete.

      Strengths:

      Experiments are conducted rigorously, including experimenter blinding and appropriate controls. Data presentation is excellent and logical. The paper is well written for a general scientific audience.

      Weaknesses:

      There are a few missing experiments and one place where data are over-interpreted.

      (1) An in vitro study of Nav1.6 is conspicuously absent. In addition to being a major brain Na channel, Nav1.6 is predominant in cerebellar Purkinje neurons, which the authors note lack PRRT2 expression. They speculate that the absence of PRRT2 in these neurons facilitates the high firing rate. This hypothesis would be strengthened if PRRT2 also enhanced slow inactivation of Nav1.6. If a stable Nav1.6 cell were not available, then simple transient co-transfection experiments would suffice.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. In the revised manuscript, we will examine whether PRRT2 modulates slow inactivation of Nav1.6 channels using heterologous co-expression experiments.

      (2) To further demonstrate the physiological impact of enhanced slow inactivation, the authors should consider a simple experiment in the stable cell line experiments (Figure 1) to test pulse frequency dependence of peak Na current. One would predict that PRRT2 expression will potentiate 'run down' of the channels, and this finding would be complementary to the biophysical data.

      We agree that examining pulse frequency-dependent changes in peak sodium current would provide a functional readout linking PRRT2-mediated enhancement of slow inactivation to use-dependent channel availability. In the revision, we will include a pulse-train protocol to quantify use-dependent attenuation (“run-down”) of peak sodium current across stimulation trains and will compare this adaptation between control and PRRT2-expressing conditions.

      (3) The study of one K channel is limited, and the conclusion from these experiments represents an over-interpretation. I suggest removing these data unless many more K channels (ideally with measurable proxies for slow inactivation) were tested. These data do not contribute much to the story.

      We agree with the reviewer’s assessment. To avoid over-interpretation and to maintain focus on PRRT2-dependent regulation of Nav channel slow inactivation, we will remove potassium channel dataset and the associated conclusions from the revised manuscript.

      (4) In Figure 2, the authors should confirm that protein is indeed expressed in cells expressing each truncated PRRT2 construct. Absent expression should be ruled out as an explanation for the enhancement of slow inactivation.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s concern regarding expression of the truncated PRRT2 constructs in the Nav1.2 stable cell line, particularly PRRT2(1-266), which shows little effect on slow inactivation of Nav1.2 channels. In the revision, we will include expression controls for each truncation construct in the Nav1.2-expressing cells to rule out lack of expression as an explanation for the observed functional differences.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      As a member of DspB subfamily, PRRT2 is primarily expressed in the nervous system and has been associated with various paroxysmal neurological disorders. Previous studies have shown that PRRT2 directly interacts with Nav1.2 and Nav1.6, modulating channel properties and neuronal excitability.

      In this study, Lu et al. reported that PRRT2 is a physiological regulator of Nav channel slow inactivation, promoting the development of Nav slow inactivation and impeding the recovery from slow inactivation. This effect can be replicated by the C-terminal region (256-346) of PRRT2, and is highly conserved across species from zebrafish, mouse, to human PRRT2. TRARG1 and TMEM233, the other two DspB family members, showed similar effects on Nav1.2 slow inactivation. Co-IP data confirms the interaction between Nav channels and PRRT2. Prrt2-mutant mice, which lack PRRT2 expression, require lower stimulation thresholds for evoking after-discharges when compared to WT mice.

      Strengths:

      (1) This study is well designed, and data support the conclusion that PRRT2 is a potent regulator of slow inactivation of Nav channels.

      (2) This study reveals similar effects on Nav1.2 slow inactivation by PRRT2, TMEM233, and TRARG1, indicating a common regulation of Nav channels by DspB family members (Supplemental Figure 2). A recent study has shown that TMEM233 is essential for ExTxA (a plant toxin)-mediated inhibition on fast inactivation of Nav channels; and PRRT2 and TRARG1 could replicate this effect (Jami S, et al. Nat Commun 2023). It is possible that all three DspB members regulate Nav channel properties through the same mechanism, and exploring molecules that target PRRT2/TRARG1/TMEM233 might be a novel strategy for developing new treatments of DspB-related neurological diseases.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) Previously, the authors have reported that PRRT2 reduces Nav1.2 current density and alters biophysical properties of both Nav1.2 and Nav1.6 channels, including enhanced steady-state inactivation, slower recovery, and stronger use-dependent inhibition (Lu B, et al. Cell Rep 2021, Fig 3 & S5). All those changes are expected to alter neuronal excitability and should be discussed.

      We agree that PRRT2 has been reported to exert multiple effects on Nav channels which are all expected to influence neuronal excitability (Fruscione et al., 2018; Lu et al., 2021; Valente et al., 2023). In the revised manuscript, we will expand the Discussion to integrate these prior findings and to clarify how these PRRT2-dependent changes may interact with (and potentially converge on) modulation of slow inactivation to shape neuronal excitability.

      (2) In this study, the fast inactivation kinetics was examined by a single stimulus at 0 mV, which may not be sufficient for the conclusion. Inactivation kinetics at more voltage potentials should be added.

      We thank the reviewer for this suggestion. In the revision, we will extend our analysis of Nav1.2 fast-inactivation kinetics across a range of test potentials (e.g., -20, -10, 0, +10 and +20 mV) in the presence and absence of PRRT2.

      (3) It is a little surprising that there is no difference in Nav1.2 current density in axon-blebs between WT and Prrt2-mutant mice (Figure 7B). PRRT2 significantly shifts steady-state slow inactivation curve to hyperpolarizing direction, at -70 mV, nearly 70% of Nav1.2 channels are inactivated by slow inactivation in cells expressing PRRT2 when compared to less than 10% in cells expressing GFP (Figure supplement 1B); with a holding potential of -70 mV, I would expect that most of Nav channels are inactivated in axon-blebs from WT mice but not in axon-blebs from Prrt2-mutant mice, and therefore sodium current density should be different in Figure 7B, which was not. Any explanation?

      We appreciate the reviewer for raising this point. In our axonal bleb recordings, although the holding potential was -70 mV, sodium current density was measured after a hyperpolarizing pre-pulse (-110 mV) to relieve inactivation immediately prior to the test depolarization (as described in the Methods). Thus, the current density measurement in Figure 7B reflects the maximal available current following this recovery step, rather than the steady-state availability at -70 mV. In the revision, we will state this explicitly in the Results and/or figure legend to avoid confusion.

      (4) Besides Nav channels, PRRT2 has been shown to act on Cav2.1 channels as well as molecules involved in neurotransmitter release, which may also contribute to abnormal neuronal activity in Prrt2-mutant mice. These should be mentioned when discussing PRRT2's role in neuronal resilience.

      We agree with the reviewer. In the revised manuscript, we will broaden the Discussion to acknowledge PRRT2 functions beyond Nav channels, including reported roles in Cav2.1 regulation and neurotransmitter release. We will frame the in vivo phenotypes in Prrt2-mutant mice as likely arising from convergent mechanisms—altered intrinsic excitability together with changes in synaptic transmission.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      This paper reveals that the neuronal protein PRRT2, previously known for its association with paroxysmal dyskinesia and infantile seizures, modulates the slow inactivation of voltage-gated sodium ion (Nav) channels, a gating process that limits excitability during prolonged activity. Using electrophysiology, molecular biology, and mouse models, the authors show that PRRT2 accelerates entry of Nav channels into the slow-inactivated state and slows their recovery, effectively dampening excessive excitability. The effect seems evolutionarily conserved, requires the C-terminal region of PRRT2, and is recapitulated in cortical neurons, where PRRT2 deficiency leads to hyper-responsiveness and reduced cortical resilience in vivo. These findings extend the functional repertoire of PRRT2, identifying it as a physiological brake on neuronal excitability. The work provides a mechanistic link between PRRT2 mutations and episodic neurological phenotypes.

      Comments:

      (1) The precise structural interface and the molecular basis of gating modulation remain inferred rather than demonstrated.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. In the revision, we will make it explicit that our structural modeling are based on prediction rather than evidential. We will also expand the Limitations section to highlight that direct structural and biochemical mapping of the PRRT2-Nav interface (e.g., through targeted mutagenesis, crosslinking, and/or structural determination) will be required to define the binding interface and establish the molecular basis of gating modulation.

      (2) The in vivo phenotype reflects a complex circuit outcome and does not isolate slow-inactivation defects per se.

      We agree with the reviewer. In the revision, we will refine the Discussion to avoid over-attributing the in vivo phenotype to slow-inactivation defects alone and to explicitly state that impaired slow inactivation in Prrt2-mutant mice represents one plausible contributing mechanism to reduced cortical resilience, alongside other PRRT2-dependent process.

      (3) Expression of PRRT2 in muscle or heart is low, so the cross-isoform claims are likely of limited physiological significance.

      We thank the review for your comment about physiological relevance. In the revised manuscript, we will clarify that our Nav isoform panel was designed to assess mechanistic generality at the channel level rather than to imply broad in vivo relevance across tissues. We will also expand the Discussion to emphasize that any therapeutic strategy involving PRRT2 delivery should consider its consistent effect on slow inactivation across multiple Nav isoforms.

      (4) The mechanistic separation between the trafficking effect of PRRT2 and its gating effects is not clearly resolved.

      We appreciate the reviewer for raising this important point. In the revision, we will expand the Discussion to clarify why we interpret the effect of PRRT2 on slow inactivation as a gating modulation rather than a secondary consequence of altered channel abundance or localization. First, our slow inactivation measurements are expressed as the fraction of available channels after depolarization conditioning relative to baseline availability within the same cell (post-/pre-conditioning), which minimizes confounding by differences in initial surface expression. Second, the slow inactivation of Nav channel occurs on a rapid, activity-dependent timescale (seconds), whereas remarkable changes in trafficking and surface abundance generally develop over longer intervals (minutes to hours).

      (5) Additional studies with Nav1.6 should be carried out.

      We thank the reviewer’s suggestion. We will include Nav1.6 slow inactivation experiments in the revised manuscript.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study uses dental traits of a large sample of Chinese mammals to track evolutionary patterns through the Paleocene. It presents and argues for a 'brawn before bite' hypothesis - mammals increased in body size disparity before evolving more specialized or adapted dentitions. The study makes use of an impressive array of analyses, including dental topographic, finite element, and integration analyses, which help to provide a unique insight into mammalian evolutionary patterns.

      Strengths:

      This paper helps to fill in a major gap in our knowledge of Paleocene mammal patterns in Asia, which is especially important because of the diversification of placentals at that time. The total sample of teeth is impressive and required considerable effort for scanning and analyzing. And there is a wealth of results for DTA, FEA, and integration analyses. Further, some of the results are especially interesting, such as the novel 'brawn before bite' hypothesis and the possible link between shifts in dental traits and arid environments in the Late Paleocene. Overall, I enjoyed reading the paper, and I think the results will be of interest to a broad audience.

      Weaknesses:

      I have four major concerns with the study, especially related to the sampling of teeth and taxa, that I discuss in more detail below. Due to these issues, I believe that the study is incomplete in its support of the 'brawn before bite' hypothesis. Although my concerns are significant, many of them can be addressed with some simple updates/revisions to analyses or text, and I try to provide constructive advice throughout my review.

      (1) If I understand correctly, teeth of different tooth positions (e.g., premolars and molars), and those from the same specimen, are lumped into the same analyses. And unless I missed it, no justification is given for these methodological choices (besides testing for differences in proportions of tooth positions per time bin; L902). I think this creates some major statistical concerns. For example, DTA values for premolars and molars aren't directly comparable (I don't think?) because they have different functions (e.g., greater grinding function for molars). My recommendation is to perform different disparity-through-time analyses for each tooth position, assuming the sample sizes are big enough per time bin. Or, if the authors maintain their current methods/results, they should provide justification in the main text for that choice.

      Also, I think lumping teeth from the same specimen into your analyses creates a major statistical concern because the observations aren't independent. In other words, the teeth of the same individual should have relatively similar DTA values, which can greatly bias your results. This is essentially the same issue as phylogenetic non-independence, but taken to a much greater extreme.

      It seems like it'd be much more appropriate to perform specimen-level analyses (e.g., Wilson 2013) or species-level analyses (e.g., Grossnickle & Newham 2016) and report those results in the main text. If the authors believe that their methods are justified, then they should explain this in the text.

      (2) Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounds like the sampling is almost exclusively clades that are primarily herbivorous/omnivorous (Pantodonta, Arctostylopida, Anagalida, and maybe Tillodonta), which means that the full ecomorphological diversity of the time bins is not being sampled (e.g., insectivores aren't fully sampled). Similarly, the authors say that they "focused sampling" on those major clades and "Additional data were collected on other clades ... opportunistically" (L628). If they favored sampling of specific clades, then doesn't that also bias their results?

      If the study is primarily focused on a few herbivorous clades, then the Introduction should be reframed to reflect this. You could explain that you're specifically tracking herbivore patterns after the K-Pg.

      (3) There are a lot of topics lacking background information, which makes the paper challenging to read for non-experts. Maybe the authors are hindered by a short word limit. But if they can expand their main text, then I strongly recommend the following:

      (a) The authors should discuss diets. Much of the data are diet correlates (DTA values), but diets are almost never mentioned, except in the Methods. For example, the authors say: "An overall shift towards increased dental topographic trait magnitudes ..." (L137). Does that mean there was a shift toward increased herbivory? If so, why not mention the dietary shift? And if most of the sampled taxa are herbivores (see above comment), then shouldn't herbivory be a focal point of the paper?

      (b) The authors should expand on "we used dentitions as ecological indicators" (L75). For non-experts, how/why are dentitions linked to ecology? And, again, why not mention diet? A strong link between tooth shape and diet is a critical assumption here (and one I'm sure that all mammalogists agree with), but the authors don't provide justification (at least in the Introduction) for that assumption. Many relevant papers cited later in the Methods could be cited in the Introduction (e.g., Evans et al. 2007).

      (c) Include a better introduction of the sample, such as explicitly stating that your sample only includes placentals (assuming that's the case) and is focused on three major clades. Are non-placentals like multituberculates or stem placentals/eutherians found at Chinese Paleocene fossil localities and not sampled in the study, or are they absent in the sampled area?

      (d) The way in which "integration" is being used should be defined. That is a loaded term which has been defined in different ways. I also recommend providing more explanation on the integration analyses and what the results mean.

      If the authors don't have space to expand the main text, then they should at least expand on the topics in the supplement, with appropriate citations to the supplement in the main text.

      (4) Finally, I'm not convinced that the results fully support the 'brawn before bite' hypothesis. I like the hypothesis. However, the 'brawn before ...' part of the hypothesis assumes that body size disparity (L63) increased first, and I don't think that pattern is ever shown. First, body size disparity is never reported or plotted (at least that I could find) - the authors just show the violin plots of the body sizes (Figures 1B, S6A). Second, the authors don't show evidence of an actual increase in body size disparity. Instead, they seem to assume that there was a rapid diversification in the earliest Paleocene, and thus the early Paleocene bin has already "reached maximum saturation" (L148). But what if the body size disparity in the latest Cretaceous was the same as that in the Paleocene? (Although that's unlikely, note that papers like Clauset & Redner 2009 and Grossnickle & Newham 2016 found evidence of greater body size disparity in the latest Cretaceous than is commonly recognized.) Similarly, what if body size disparity increased rapidly in the Eocene? Wouldn't that suggest a 'BITE before brawn' hypothesis? So, without showing when an increase in body size diversity occurred, I don't think that the authors can make a strong argument for 'brawn before [insert any trait]".

      Although it's probably well beyond the scope of the study to add Cretaceous or Eocene data, the authors could at least review literature on body size patterns during those times to provide greater evidence for an earliest Paleocene increase in size disparity.

    2. Author response:

      eLife Assessment

      This important study fills a major geographic and temporal gap in understanding Paleocene mammal evolution in Asia and proposes an intriguing "brawn before bite" hypothesis grounded in diverse analytical approaches. However, the findings are incomplete because limitations in sampling design - such as the use of worn or damaged teeth, the pooling of different tooth positions, and the lack of independence among teeth from the same individuals - introduce uncertainties that weaken support for the reported disparity patterns. The taxonomic focus on predominantly herbivorous clades also narrows the ecological scope of the results. Clarifying methodological choices, expanding the ecological context, and tempering evolutionary interpretations would substantially strengthen the study.

      We thank Dr. Rasmann for the constructive evaluation of our manuscript. Considering the reviewers’ comments, we plan to implement revisions to our study focusing on (1) expansion of the fossil sample description, including a detailed account of the process of excluding extremely worn or damaged teeth from all analyses, (2) expanded reporting of the analyses done on individual tooth positions, and tempering the interpretation of the pooled samples in light of the issues raised by reviewers, (3) providing a more comprehensive introduction that includes an overview of the Paleocene mammal faunas in south China, which unevenly samples certain clades whereas others are extremely rare, and why the current available fossil samples would not permit a whole-fauna analysis to be adequately conducted across the three land mammal age time bins of the Paleocene in China. We believe these revisions would substantially strengthen the study’s robustness and impact for understanding the ecomorphological evolution of the earliest abundant placental mammals during the Paleocene in Asia.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This work provides valuable new insights into the Paleocene Asian mammal recovery and diversification dynamics during the first ten million years post-dinosaur extinction. Studies that have examined the mammalian recovery and diversification post-dinosaur extinction have primarily focused on the North American mammal fossil record, and it's unclear if patterns documented in North America are characteristic of global patterns. This study examines dietary metrics of Paleocene Asian mammals and found that there is a body size disparity increase before dietary niche expansion and that dietary metrics track climatic and paleobotanical trends of Asia during the first 10 million years after the dinosaur extinction.

      Strengths:

      The Asian Paleocene mammal fossil record is greatly understudied, and this work begins to fill important gaps. In particular, the use of interdisciplinary data (i.e., climatic and paleobotanical) is really interesting in conjunction with observed dietary metric trends.

      Weaknesses:

      While this work has the potential to be exciting and contribute greatly to our understanding of mammalian evolution during the first 10 million years post-dinosaur extinction, the major weakness is in the dental topographic analysis (DTA) dataset.

      There are several specimens in Figure 1 that have broken cusps, deep wear facets, and general abrasion. Thus, any values generated from DTA are not accurate and cannot be used to support their claims. Furthermore, the authors analyze all tooth positions at once, which makes this study seem comprehensive (200 individual teeth), but it's unclear what sort of noise this introduces to the study. Typically, DTA studies will analyze a singular tooth position (e.g., Pampush et al. 2018 Biol. J. Linn. Soc.), allowing for more meaningful comparisons and an understanding of what value differences mean. Even so, the dataset consists of only 48 specimens. This means that even if all the specimens were pristinely preserved and generated DTA values could be trusted, it's still only 48 specimens (representing 4 different clades) to capture patterns across 10 million years. For example, the authors note that their results show an increase in OPCR and DNE values from the middle to the late Paleocene in pantodonts. However, if a singular tooth position is analyzed, such as the lower second molar, the middle and late Paleocene partitions are only represented by a singular specimen each. With a sample size this small, it's unlikely that the authors are capturing real trends, which makes the claims of this study highly questionable.

      We thank Reviewer 1 for their careful review of our manuscript. A major external limitation of the application of DTA to fossil samples is the availability of specimens. Whereas a typical study design using extant or geologically younger/more abundant fossil species would preferably sample much larger quantities of teeth from each treatment group (time bins, in our case), the rarity of well-preserved Paleocene mammalian dentitions in Asia necessitates the analysis of small samples in order to make observations regarding major trends in a region and time period otherwise impossible to study (see Chow et al. 1977). That said, we plan to clarify methodological details in response to the reviewer’s comments, including a more comprehensive explanation of our criteria for exclusion of broken tooth crowns from the analyses. We also plan to expand our results reporting on individual tooth position analysis, potentially including resampling and/or simulation analyses to assess the effect of small and uneven samples on our interpretation of results. Lastly, we plan to revise the discussion and conclusion accordingly, including more explicit distinction between well-supported findings that emerge from various planned sensitivity analyses, versus those that are more speculative and tentative in nature.

      Chow, M., Zhang, Y., Wang, B., and Ding, S. (1977). Paleocene mammalian fauna from the Nanxiong Basin, Guangdong Province. Paleontol. Sin. New Ser. C 20, 1–100.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This study uses dental traits of a large sample of Chinese mammals to track evolutionary patterns through the Paleocene. It presents and argues for a 'brawn before bite' hypothesis - mammals increased in body size disparity before evolving more specialized or adapted dentitions. The study makes use of an impressive array of analyses, including dental topographic, finite element, and integration analyses, which help to provide a unique insight into mammalian evolutionary patterns.

      Strengths:

      This paper helps to fill in a major gap in our knowledge of Paleocene mammal patterns in Asia, which is especially important because of the diversification of placentals at that time. The total sample of teeth is impressive and required considerable effort for scanning and analyzing. And there is a wealth of results for DTA, FEA, and integration analyses. Further, some of the results are especially interesting, such as the novel 'brawn before bite' hypothesis and the possible link between shifts in dental traits and arid environments in the Late Paleocene. Overall, I enjoyed reading the paper, and I think the results will be of interest to a broad audience.

      Weaknesses:

      I have four major concerns with the study, especially related to the sampling of teeth and taxa, that I discuss in more detail below. Due to these issues, I believe that the study is incomplete in its support of the 'brawn before bite' hypothesis. Although my concerns are significant, many of them can be addressed with some simple updates/revisions to analyses or text, and I try to provide constructive advice throughout my review.

      (1) If I understand correctly, teeth of different tooth positions (e.g., premolars and molars), and those from the same specimen, are lumped into the same analyses. And unless I missed it, no justification is given for these methodological choices (besides testing for differences in proportions of tooth positions per time bin; L902). I think this creates some major statistical concerns. For example, DTA values for premolars and molars aren't directly comparable (I don't think?) because they have different functions (e.g., greater grinding function for molars). My recommendation is to perform different disparity-through-time analyses for each tooth position, assuming the sample sizes are big enough per time bin. Or, if the authors maintain their current methods/results, they should provide justification in the main text for that choice.

      We thank Reviewer 2 for raising several issues worthy of clarification. Separate analyses for individual tooth positions were performed but not emphasized in the first version of the study. In our revised version we plan to highlight the nuances of the results from premolar versus molar partition analyses.

      Also, I think lumping teeth from the same specimen into your analyses creates a major statistical concern because the observations aren't independent. In other words, the teeth of the same individual should have relatively similar DTA values, which can greatly bias your results. This is essentially the same issue as phylogenetic non-independence, but taken to a much greater extreme.

      It seems like it'd be much more appropriate to perform specimen-level analyses (e.g., Wilson 2013) or species-level analyses (e.g., Grossnickle & Newham 2016) and report those results in the main text. If the authors believe that their methods are justified, then they should explain this in the text.

      We plan to emphasize individual tooth position analyses in our revisions, and provide a stronger justification for our current treatment of multiple teeth from the same individual specimens as independent samples. We recognize the statistical nonindependence raised by Reviewer 2, but we would point out that from an ecomorphological perspective, it is unclear to us that the heterodont dentition of these early Cenozoic placental mammals should represent a single ecological signal (and thus warrant using only a single tooth position as representative of an individual’s DTA values). We plan to closely examine the nature of nonindependence in the DTA data within individuals, to assess a balanced approach to maximize information content from the relatively small and rare fossil samples used, while minimizing signal nonindependence across the dentition.

      (2) Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounds like the sampling is almost exclusively clades that are primarily herbivorous/omnivorous (Pantodonta, Arctostylopida, Anagalida, and maybe Tillodonta), which means that the full ecomorphological diversity of the time bins is not being sampled (e.g., insectivores aren't fully sampled). Similarly, the authors say that they "focused sampling" on those major clades and "Additional data were collected on other clades ... opportunistically" (L628). If they favored sampling of specific clades, then doesn't that also bias their results?

      If the study is primarily focused on a few herbivorous clades, then the Introduction should be reframed to reflect this. You could explain that you're specifically tracking herbivore patterns after the K-Pg.

      We plan to revise the introduction section to more accurately reflect the emphasis on those clades. However, we would note that conventional dietary ecomorphology categories used to characterize later branching placental mammals are likely to be less informative when applied to their Paleocene counterparts. Although there are dental morphological traits that began to characterize major placental clades during the Paleocene, distinctive dietary ecologies have not been demonstrated for most of the clade representatives studied. Thus, insectivory was probably not restricted to “Insectivora”, nor carnivory to early Carnivmorpha or “Creodonta”, each of which represented less than 5% of the taxonomic richness during the Paleocene in China (Wang et al. 2007).

      Wang, Y., Meng, J., Ni, X., and Li, C. (2007). Major events of Paleogene mammal radiation in China. Geol. J. 42, 415–430.

      (3) There are a lot of topics lacking background information, which makes the paper challenging to read for non-experts. Maybe the authors are hindered by a short word limit. But if they can expand their main text, then I strongly recommend the following:

      (a) The authors should discuss diets. Much of the data are diet correlates (DTA values), but diets are almost never mentioned, except in the Methods. For example, the authors say: "An overall shift towards increased dental topographic trait magnitudes ..." (L137). Does that mean there was a shift toward increased herbivory? If so, why not mention the dietary shift? And if most of the sampled taxa are herbivores (see above comment), then shouldn't herbivory be a focal point of the paper?

      We plan to revise the text to make clearer connections between DTA and dietary inferences, and at the same time advise caution in making one-to-one linkages between them. Broadly speaking, dental indices such as DTA are phenotypic traits, and as in other phenotypic traits, the strength of structure-function relationships needs to be explicitly established before dietary ecological inferences can be confidently made. There is, to date, no consistent connection between dental topology and tooth use proxies and biomechanical traits in extant non-herbivorous species (e.g., DeSantis et al. 2017, Tseng and DeSantis 2024), and in our analyses, FEA and DTA generally did not show strong correlations to each other. Thus, we plan to continue to exercise care in interpreting DTA data as dietary data.

      DeSantis LRG, Tseng ZJ, Liu J, Hurst A, Schubert BW, Jiangzuo Q. Assessing niche conservatism using a multiproxy approach: dietary ecology of extinct and extant spotted hyenas. Paleobiology. 2017;43(2):286-303. doi:10.1017/pab.2016.45

      Tseng ZJ, DeSantis LR. Relationship between tooth macrowear and jaw morphofunctional traits in representative hypercarnivores. PeerJ. 2024 Nov 11;12:e18435.

      (b) The authors should expand on "we used dentitions as ecological indicators" (L75). For non-experts, how/why are dentitions linked to ecology? And, again, why not mention diet? A strong link between tooth shape and diet is a critical assumption here (and one I'm sure that all mammalogists agree with), but the authors don't provide justification (at least in the Introduction) for that assumption. Many relevant papers cited later in the Methods could be cited in the Introduction (e.g., Evans et al. 2007).

      Thank you for this suggestion. We plan to expand the introduction section to better contextualize the methodological basis for the work presented.

      (c) Include a better introduction of the sample, such as explicitly stating that your sample only includes placentals (assuming that's the case) and is focused on three major clades. Are non-placentals like multituberculates or stem placentals/eutherians found at Chinese Paleocene fossil localities and not sampled in the study, or are they absent in the sampled area?

      We thank Reviewer 2 for raising this important point worthy of clarification. Multituberculates are completely absent from the first two land mammal ages in the Paleocene of Asia, and non-placentals are rare in general (Wang et al. 2007). We plan to provide more context for the taxonomic sampling choices made in the study.

      Wang, Y., Meng, J., Ni, X., and Li, C. (2007). Major events of Paleogene mammal radiation in China. Geol. J. 42, 415–430.

      (d) The way in which "integration" is being used should be defined. That is a loaded term which has been defined in different ways. I also recommend providing more explanation on the integration analyses and what the results mean.

      If the authors don't have space to expand the main text, then they should at least expand on the topics in the supplement, with appropriate citations to the supplement in the main text.

      We plan to clarify our usage of “integration” to enable readers to accurately interpret what we mean by it.

      (4) Finally, I'm not convinced that the results fully support the 'brawn before bite' hypothesis. I like the hypothesis. However, the 'brawn before ...' part of the hypothesis assumes that body size disparity (L63) increased first, and I don't think that pattern is ever shown. First, body size disparity is never reported or plotted (at least that I could find) - the authors just show the violin plots of the body sizes (Figures 1B, S6A). Second, the authors don't show evidence of an actual increase in body size disparity. Instead, they seem to assume that there was a rapid diversification in the earliest Paleocene, and thus the early Paleocene bin has already "reached maximum saturation" (L148). But what if the body size disparity in the latest Cretaceous was the same as that in the Paleocene? (Although that's unlikely, note that papers like Clauset & Redner 2009 and Grossnickle & Newham 2016 found evidence of greater body size disparity in the latest Cretaceous than is commonly recognized.) Similarly, what if body size disparity increased rapidly in the Eocene? Wouldn't that suggest a 'BITE before brawn' hypothesis? So, without showing when an increase in body size diversity occurred, I don't think that the authors can make a strong argument for 'brawn before [insert any trait]".

      Although it's probably well beyond the scope of the study to add Cretaceous or Eocene data, the authors could at least review literature on body size patterns during those times to provide greater evidence for an earliest Paleocene increase in size disparity.

      We plan to provide a broader discussion and any supporting evidence from the Cretaceous and Eocene to either make a stronger case for “brawn before bite”, or to refine what we mean by brawn/size/size disparity.