10,000 Matching Annotations
  1. Feb 2025
    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      In this manuscript, the authors report that GPR55 activation in presynaptic terminals of Purkinje cells decrease GABA release at the PC-DCN synapse. The authors use an impressive array of techniques (including highly challenging presynaptic recordings) to show that GPR55 activation reduces the readily releasable pool of vesicle without affecting presynaptic AP waveform and presynaptic Ca2+ influx. This is an interesting study, which is seemingly well-executed and proposes a novel mechanism for the control of neurotransmitter release. However, the authors' main conclusions are heavily, if not solely, based on pharmacological agents that most often than not demonstrate affinity at multiple targets. Below are points that the authors should consider in a revised version.

      We thank the reviewer for the encouraging comments, and will fully address the reviewer’s concerns as detailed below.

      Major points:

      (1) There is no clear evidence that GPR55 is specifically expressed in presynaptic terminals at the PC-DCN synapse. The authors cited Ryberg 2007 and Wu 2013 in the introduction, mentioning that GPR55 is potentially expressed in PCs. Ryberg (2007) offers no such evidence, and the expression in PC suggested by Wu (2013) does not necessarily correlate with presynaptic expression. The authors should perform additional experiments to demonstrate the presynaptic expression of GPR55 at PC-DCN synapse.

      We agree with the reviewer’s concern that the present manuscript lacks the evidence for localization of GPR55 at PC axon terminals. Honestly, our previous attempt to immune-label GPR55 did not work well. Now, we realize that different antibodies are commercially available, and are going to test them. Hopefully, in the revised manuscript, we will demonstrate immunocytochemical images showing GPR55 at terminals of PCs.

      (2) The authors' conclusions rest heavily on pharmacological experiments, with compounds that are sometimes not selective for single targets. Genetic deletion of GPR55 would be a more appropriate control. The authors should also expand their experiments with occlusion experiments, showing if the effects of LPI are absent after AM251 or O-1602 treatment. In addition, the authors may want to consider AM281 as a CB1R antagonist without reported effects at GPR55.

      We appreciate the reviewer for pointing out the essential issue regarding the specificity of activation of GPR55 in our study. Regarding the direct manipulation of GPR55, such as genetic deletion, we will try acute knock-down of its expression, considering the possibility of compensation which sometimes occur when the complete knock-out is performed. In addition, according to the reviewer’s suggestion, we will examine whether the effects of LPI and AM251 occlude each other, and also perform control experiments showing the lack of CB1R involvement.

      (3) It is not clear how long the different drugs were applied, and at what time the recordings were performed during or following drug application. It appears that GPR55 agonists can have transient effects (Sylantyev, 2013; Rosenberg, 2023), possibly due to receptor internalization. The timeline of drug application should be reported, where IPSC amplitude is shown as a function of time and drug application windows are illustrated.

      As suggested, the timing and duration of drug application will be indicated together with the time course of changes of IPSC amplitudes. This change will make things much clearer. Thank you for the suggestion.

      (4) A previous investigation on the role of GPR55 in the control of neurotransmitter release is not cited nor discussed Sylantyev et al., (2013, PNAS, Cannabinoid- and lysophosphatidylinositol-sensitive receptor GPR55 boosts neurotransmitter release at central synapses). Similarities and differences should be discussed.

      We are really sorry for missing this important study in discussion and citation. In the revised version, of course, we will discuss their findings and our data.

      Minor point:

      (1) What is the source of LPI? What isoform was used? The multiple isoforms of LPI have different affinities for GPR55.

      We are sorry for insufficient explanation about the LPI used in our study. We used LPI derived from soy (Merck, catalog #L7635) that was estimated to contain 58% C16:0 and 42% C18:0 or C18:2 LPI. This information will be added to the Materials and Methods in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This paper investigates the mode of action of GPR55, a relatively understudied type of cannabinoid receptor, in presynaptic terminals of Purkinje cells. The authors use demanding techniques of patch clamp recording of the terminals, sometimes coupled with another recording of the postsynaptic cell. They find a lower release probability of synaptic vesicles after activation of GPR55 receptors, while presynaptic voltage-dependent calcium currents are unaffected. They propose that the size of a specific pool of synaptic vesicles supplying release sites is decreased upon activation of GPR55 receptors.

      Strengths:

      The paper uses cutting-edge techniques to shed light on a little-studied, potentially important type of cannabinoid receptor. The results are clearly presented, and the conclusions are for the most part sound.

      We are really happy to hear the encouraging comments from the reviewer.

      Weaknesses:

      The nature of the vesicular pool that is modified following activation of GPR55 is not definitively characterized.

      During revision, we will perform further analysis and additional experiments to obtain deeper insights into the vesicle pools affected by GPR55 as much as possible.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Inoshita and Kawaguchi investigated the effects of GPR55 activation on synaptic transmission in vitro. To address this question, they performed direct patch-clamp recordings from axon terminals of cerebellar Purkinje cells and fluorescent imaging of vesicular exocytosis utilizing synapto-pHluorin. They found that exogenous activation of GPR55 suppresses GABA release at Purkinje cell to deep cerebellar nuclei (PC-DCN) synapses by reducing the readily releasable pool (RRP) of vesicles. This mechanism may also operate at other synapses.

      Strengths:

      The main strength of this study lies in combining patch-clamp recordings from axon terminals with imaging of presynaptic vesicular exocytosis to reveal a novel mechanism by which activation of GPR55 suppresses inhibitory synaptic strength. The results strongly suggest that GPR55 activation reduces the RRP size without altering presynaptic calcium influx.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation on our conclusions.

      Weaknesses:

      The study relies on the exogenous application of GPR55 agonists. It remains unclear whether endogenous ligands released due to physiological or pathological activities would have similar effects. There is no information regarding the time course of the agonist-induced suppression. There is also little evidence that GPR55 is expressed in Purkinje cells. This study would benefit from using GPR55 knockout (KO) mice. The downstream mechanism by which GPR55 mediates the suppression of GABA release remains unknown.

      We agree with the reviewer in all respects suggested as weaknesses. Most issues will be made much clearer by the additional experiments and analysis described above to respond to respective issues raised by other reviewers. The situation of endogenous ligands for GPR55 causing the synaptic depression and its downstream mechanism are very important issues, and we are going to discuss these points in the revised manuscript, and like to work on these in the future study.

    1. hipocrisia massificada, de um país que vive uma estranha forma de negar a si mesmo, uma negação patriótica

      Ideias e formas são importadas, mas aqui são tratadas como se nos representassem "verdadeiramente".

    1. isomorphism

      Structural isomorphism is a mathematical concept that describes when two structures have the same properties and can be mapped onto each other while preserving their structure

      Isomorphism: one-to-one mapping; mapping of truth to facts/state of affiars w/o either losing structure;; disambiguation

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In this work, Huang et al used SMRT sequencing to identify methylated nucleotides (6mA, 4mC, and 5mC) in Pseudomonas syringae genome. They show that the most abundant modification is 6mA and they identify the enzymes required for this modification as when they mutate HsdMSR they observe a decrease of 6mA. Interestingly, the mutant also displays phenotypes of change in pathogenicity, biofilm formation, and translation activity due to a change in gene expression likely linked to the loss of 6mA. Overall, the paper represents an interesting set of new data that can bring forward the field of DNA modification in bacteria.

      Thank you for your valuable feedback on our paper exploring the impact of 6mA modification in P. syringae.

      Major Concerns:

      Most of the authors' data concern Psph pathovar. I am not sure that the authors' conclusions are supported by the two other pathovars they used in the initial 2 figures. If the authors want to broaden their conclusions to Pseudomonas syringe and not restrict it to Psph, the authors should have stronger methylation data using replicates. Additionally, they should discuss why Pss is so different than Pst and Psph. Could they do a blot to confirm it is really the case and not a sequencing artifact? Is the change of methylation during bacterial growth conserved between the pathovar? The authors should obtain mutants in the other pathovar to see if they have the same phenotype. The authors have a nice set of data concerning Psph but the broadening of the results to other pathovar requires further investigation.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful comments. While the majority of our data focuses on the Psph, we recognize the importance of validating these findings in Pss and Pst. To this end, we have performed additional experiments using dot blot and mutant construction to enhance our conclusions in other pathovars.

      We agree that we should discuss why Pss is different from Psph and Pst. We performed a dot blot assay using genome DNA in Pss and Pst, presented in Figure S5A. Meanwhile, we compared the 6mA modification level of Pss and Pst in different growth phases. As shown in Figure S5A, the change of methylation during bacterial growth is conserved in Pst. The change was not obvious in Pss, which might be due to the lack of a type I R-M system.

      “In accordance with previous studies showing that growth conditions affect the bacterial methylation status, we applied dot blot experiments using the same amount of DNA (1 μg) from these three P. syringae strains to detect the 6mA levels during both logarithmic and stationary phases. The results revealed that 6mA levels in the stationary phase were much higher compared to the logarithmic phase in Psph and Pst, but no significant change in Pss. Additionally, we found that during the stationary phase, 6mA methylation levels in Psph and Pst were higher than those in Pss. These findings were consistent with the MTases predication on these three strains, since Pss does not harbor any type I R-M systems, which are important for 6mA medication in bacteria.”

      Please see Figure S5A and Lines 220-228 in the revised manuscript.

      We also tried to construct an HsdM mutant in Pst to explore whether the influence of 6mA methylation was conserved in P. syringae, but it failed after multiple attempts. We did not construct a Pss mutant because no type I R-M system was predicted, and few methylation sites were identified via SMRT-seq in this strain. Therefore, we overexpressed HsdM in Pst instead. We have performed additional experiments in WT and the HsdM overexpression strains, including dot blot and growth curve assays.

      Please see Figures S5B-C and Lines228-232 in the revised manuscript.

      The authors should include proper statistical analysis of their data. A lot of terms are descriptive but not supported by a deeper analysis to sustain the conclusions. For example, in Figure 4E, we do not know if the overlap is significant or not. Are DEGs more overlapping to 6mA sites than non-DEGs? Here is a non-exhaustive list of terms that need to be supported by statistics: different level (L145), greater conservation (L162), significant conservation (L165), considerable similarity (L175), credible motifs (L189), Less strong (L277) and several "lower" and "higher" throughout the text.

      Thank you for the insightful feedback. We have made the following revisions in the manuscript to ensure that the terms are more precise and do not require statistical significance testing.

      (1) Statistical analysis: We have added statistical tests for the overlap between DEGs and 6mA sites in Figure 4E. We performed the Fisher test, and we found the overlap was not significant (p> 0.05). DEGs and non-DEGs were both non-significant overlapped 6mA sites. Please see Figure 4E and Lines 261-262.

      “Less strong” was used to indicate the influence of HsdM on biofilm in Figure 5D. All Figures with “*” labels were analyzed using students' two-tailed t-tests with a significant change (p < 0.05).

      (2) Revised wording: For terms used to describe comparisons, we have revised the wording to be clearer and ensure that the terminology used did not imply the need for statistical significance testing when not required. For example:

      “Different level” has been removed. Please see Lines 143-144.

      “Greater conservation” has been revised to “more conserved functional terms”. Please see Lines 161-162.

      “Significant conservation” has been revised to “notable conservation”. Please see Line 165.

      “Credible motifs” has been revised to “identified motifs”. Please see Line 186.

      The authors performed SMRT sequencing of the delta hsdMSR showing a reduction of 6mA. Could they include a description of their results similar to Figures 1-2. How reduced is the 6mA level? Is it everywhere in the genome? Does it affect other methylation marks? This analysis would strengthen their conclusions.

      Yes, we agree. We have provided additional analysis and descriptions to strengthen the conclusions regarding these valuable comments. We determined three methylation sites in the HsdMSR mutant strain and compared the overlapped genes within these modification patterns. Specifically, we focused on the 6mA sites in Psph WT, HsdMSR mutant, and HsdM motif CAGCN<sub>(6)</sub>CTC. As expected, we found almost all of the reduction 6mA sites in the ΔhsdMSR were from motif CAGCN<sub>(6)</sub>CTC. We also noticed that 5mC and 4mC sites in the mutant were relatively similar to that in WT, and the slight difference might be caused by sequencing errors. Overall, we propose that HsdMSR only catalyze the 6mA located on the motif CAGCN<sub>(6)</sub>CTC, but does not affect other 6mA sites and other modification types.

      Please see Figures S4D-E and Lines 212-218 in the revised manuscript.

      In Figure 6E to conclude that methylation is required on both strands, the authors are missing the control CAGCN6CGC construct otherwise the effect could be linked to the A on the complementary strand.

      Thank you for your valuable suggestions. We have provided the control result on the complementary strand. Please see Figure 6C. The new result evidences the conclusion that 6mA methylation regulates gene transcription based on methylation on both strands.

      Please see Figure 6C and Lines 329-330 in the revised manuscript.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      In the present manuscript, Huang et.al. revealed the significant roles of the DNA methylome in regulating virulence and metabolism within Pseudomonas syringae, with a particular focus on the HsdMSR system in this model strain. The authors used SMRT-seq to profile the DNA methylation patterns (6mA, 5mC, and 4mC) in three P. syringae strains (Psph, Pss, and Psa) and displayed the conservation among them. They further identified the type I restriction-modification system (HsdMSR) in P. syringae, including its specific motif sequence. The HsdMAR participated in the process of metabolism and virulence (T3SS & Biofilm formation), as demonstrated through RNA-seq analyses. Additionally, the authors revealed the mechanisms of the transcriptional regulation by 6mA. Strictly from the point of view of the interest of the question and the work carried out, this is a worthy and timely study that uses third-generation sequencing technology to characterize the DNA methylation in P. syringae. The experimental approaches were solid, and the results obtained were interesting and provided new information on how epigenetics influences the transcription in P. syringae. The conclusions of this paper are mostly well supported by data, but some aspects of data analysis and discussion need to be clarified and extended.

      Thank you for your positive feedback and recognition of the importance of our study. We appreciate the suggestions for further clarification and extension of some aspects of data analysis and discussion. We added further analysis of the SMRT-seq result of the ΔhsdMSR and overexpressed HsdM in Pst to provide more information on conservation. We added these contents to the discussion in the revised manuscript. Please see Figure 6C and  Figure S5.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The article by Huang et.al. presents an in-depth study on the role of DNA methylation in regulating virulence and metabolism in Pseudomonas syringae, a model phytopathogenic bacterium. This comprehensive research utilized single-molecule real-time (SMRT) sequencing to profile the DNA methylation landscape across three model pathovars of P. syringae, identifying significant epigenetic mechanisms through the Type-I restriction-modification system (HsdMSR), which includes a conserved sequence motif associated with N6-methyladenine (6mA). The study provides novel insights into the epigenetic mechanisms of P. syringae, expanding the understanding of bacterial pathogenicity and adaptation. The use of SMRT sequencing for methylome profiling, coupled with transcriptomic analysis and in vivo validation, establishes a robust evidence base for the findings

      Strengths:

      The results are presented clearly, with well-organized figures and tables that effectively illustrate the study's findings.

      Weaknesses:

      It would be helpful to add more details, especially in the methods, which make it easy to evaluate and enhance the manuscript's reproducibility.

      Thank you for the positive evaluation of our study, as well as the constructive feedback provided. We have added more details in methods for RNA-seq analysis and Ribo-seq analysis. Please see Lines 484-515.

      “Briefly, bacteria were cultured to an OD<sub>600</sub> of 0.4, at which point chloramphenicol was added to a final concentration of 100 µg/mL for 2 minutes. Cells were then pelleted and washed with pre-chilled lysis buffer [25 mM Tris-HCl, pH 8.0; 25 mM NH4Cl; 10 mM MgOAc; 0.8% Triton X-100; 100 U/mL RNase-free DNase I; 0.3 U/mL Superase-In; 1.55 mM chloramphenicol; and 17 mM GMPPNP]. The pellet was resuspended in lysis buffer, followed by three freeze-thaw cycles using liquid nitrogen. Sodium deoxycholate was then added to a final concentration of 0.3% before centrifugation. The resulting supernatant was adjusted to 25 A260 units and mixed with 2 mL of 500 mM CaCl<sub>2</sub> and 12 µL MNase, making up a total volume of 200 µL. After the digestion, the reaction was quenched with 2.5 mL of 500 mM EGTA. Monosomes were isolated using Sephacryl S400 MicroSpin columns, and RNA was purified using the miRNeasy Mini Kit (Qiagen). rRNA was removed using the NEBNext rRNA Depletion Kit, and the final library was constructed with the NEBNext Small RNA Library Prep Kit. For each sample, ribosome footprint reads were mapped to the Psph 1448A reference genome, and the translational efficiency was calculated by dividing the normalized Ribo-seq counts by the normalized RNA counts. Two biological replicates were performed for all experiments.”

      Recommendations For The Authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      I would recommend the authors limit their manuscript to Psph pathovar and include statistical analysis supporting their conclusions.

      Thank you for your suggestion.

      Minor

      • L104: "significantly" please add a p-value and explain the analysis.

      Sorry for the confusion. We have added the p-value and explained the analysis in the method section. The p-value used for SMRT-seq was the modification quality value (QV) score, which were used to call the modified bases A (QV=50) and C (QV=100). Please see Lines 452-454.

      • Figures 1B, D, F, and Figure 2A: make the Venn diagram to scale

      Yes, we have revised.

      • L110-111: missing p-value to say that the authors observe a bigger overlap in Pst than Psph as they observed more modified sites in Pst

      Sorry for the confusion. We said it had a bigger overlap in Pst because the number 17.7 was bigger than the number of 15 in Psph. To avoid misunderstanding, we revised the wording to “more genes equipped with all three modification types were detected in Pst than Psph”. Please see Lines 110-111.

      • L112: missing description of their Pss analysis (IDP, sites...)

      We have added the information for Pss in the revised manuscript.

      “Additionally, the methylome atlas of Pss revealed a lower incidence of methylation than those of Psph and Pst, particularly in terms of 6mA modifications, which were only seen in 457 significant 6mA occurrences under the same threshold (IPD > 1.5) and a total of 2,853 and 1,438 methylation sites were detected as 5mC and 4mC, respectively”. Please see Lines 114-116.

      • L118: "modification" to "modified "

      We have revised. Please see Line 119.

      • L120: "modification sites" to "modified nucleotides"

      We have revised. Please see Line 121.

      • L142: correct the title "Methylated genes revealed highly functional conservation among three P. syringae strains" maybe to "Methylated genes are functionally conserved among ..."

      We have revised. Please see Line 142.

      • Figure 2C: not easy to read and interpret

      Sorry for the confusion. Figure 2C revealed the significantly enriched functional pathways in GO and KEGG databases among three P. syringae strains. The specific names of each pathway were listed on the left, and each column with dots indicated the number of genes within one kind of methylation in one of three P. syringae strains. The larger the size, the bigger the number.

      We have revised the legend of Figure 2C. Please see Lines 575-579.

      “The dot plot revealed the significantly enriched functional pathways in GO and KEGG databases among three P. syringae strains. The specific names of each pathway were listed on the left, and each column with dots indicated the number of genes within one kind of methylation in one of three P. syringae strains. The size of the dots indicates the number of related genes.”

      • Figure 6B-C: what is the difference between B 24h and C?

      Figure 6B revealed the expression difference between WT and mutant during 24 hours. Figure 6C only showed a time point in 24 hours. To avoid repetition, we have removed Figure 6C.

      • Figure 6C-D: if the same maybe remove Figure 2C

      We have removed Figure 6D.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The manuscript could be improved by addressing the following concerns:

      (1) In line 146: How to understand the percentage conserved in "more than two of the strains"?

      Sorry for the confusion, we planned to indicate the pattern that conserved in two strains and three strains. We have revised it to: “Notable, about 25% to 45% of methylated genes were conserved in two and three strains”. Please see Line 145.

      (2) In line 178: Five conserved sequence motifs should be replaced by "Six conserved sequence motifs".

      We have revised. Please see Line 176.

      (3) In Figure 2B, specify the C1, C2 and C3. "m6A" should be replaced by "6mA".

      Yes, we have revised.

      (4) In Figure S2, "m6A" should be replaced by "6mA".

      Yes, we have revised.

      (5) In line 212, please add references for the previous studies showing that growth conditions affect bacterial methylation status.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have added the relevant references (Gonzalez and Collier, 2013), (Krebes et al., 2014), (Sanchez-Romero and Casadesus, 2020).

      (6) In line 217, "illustrate" should be "illustrated".

      Yes, we have revised. Please see Line 210.

      (7) There are some genes colored in grey, revealing bigger differences between the two strains than those related to ribosomal protein, T3SS, and alginate synthesis in Fig. 4A. Do they have important functional roles as well?

      Thank you for your suggestion. A total of 116 genes with bigger differences (|Log<sub>2</sub>FC| > 2) except for genes related to ribosomal protein, T3SS, and alginate synthesis. Among these genes, 31 were annotated as hypothetical proteins and 4 as transcription factors with unknown functions, and the remaining genes mostly encoded metabolism-related enzymes. These enzymes might have effects on growth defects in ΔhsdMSR. We added this information in the revised manuscript. Please see Line 249-254.

      (8) The authors should discuss what will be the potential signals or factors that can regulate the activity of HsdMSR. In other words, what can decide the extent of methylation through activating or suppressing the expression of HsdMSR?

      Thank you for your valuable suggestion. We have added this part in the discussion part. Please see Lines 404-415.

      “Apart from the established roles of 6mA and HsdMSR in P. syringae, certain signals or factors may influence HsdMSR expression. For instance, we confirmed that the growth phase affects methylation levels in P. syringae. Previous studies have shown that increased temperatures can reduce methylation levels, as observed in PAO1(Doberenz et al., 2017). These findings suggest that HsdMSR expression may be responsive to both intrinsic cellular states and extrinsic environmental conditions. To further explore potential upstream TFs regulating the expression of HsdMSR, we searched for TF-binding sites in the HsdMSR promoter using our own databases (Fan et al., 2020; Shao et al., 2021; Sun et al., 2024). As a result, we found three candidate TFs (PSPPH_0061, PSPPH_3268, and PSPPH_3504) that might directly bind and regulate HsdMSR expression. Future studies on these TFs and their interactions with the HsdMSR promoter would help clarify the regulatory network governing HsdMSR activity.”

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) Some figures contain dense information, which may be overwhelming for readers. Streamlining the legend for Figure 1 and resizing the Venn diagrams within it could enhance clarity and visual appeal.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have scaled all the Venn plots in the revised version.

      (2) Incorporating a discussion about the role of the restriction-modification (RM) system in bacterial defense against phage infection into the discussion section could enrich the manuscript's context and relevance.

      Thank you for your valuable suggestion. We have added this part in the Discussion part. Please see Lines 416-427.

      “RM systems are known for their intrinsic role as innate immune systems in anti-phage infection, and present in around 90% of bacterial genomes(Oliveira et al., 2014). RM systems protect bacteria self by recognizing and degrading foreign phage DNA via methylation-specific site and restriction endonucleases (REases) (Loenen et al., 2014). In addition, other phage-resistance systems are similar to RM systems but carry extra genes. One is called the phage growth limitation (Pgl) system, which modifies and cleaves phage DNA. However, the Pgl only modifies the phage DNA in the first infection cycle, and cleaves phage DNA in the subsequent infections, which gives a warn to the neighboring cells(Hampton et al., 2020; Hoskisson et al., 2015). To counteract RM and RM-like systems, phages have evolved strategies, including unusual modifications such as hydroxymethylation, glycosylation, and glucosylation. They can also encode their own MTases to protect their DNA or employ strategies to evade restriction systems and other anti-RM defenses.(Iida et al., 1987; Murphy et al., 2013; Vasu and Nagaraja, 2013).

      (3) In line 152: What is the importance of the mentioned example of Cro/CI family TF?

      Thank you for your comments. The Cro/CI are important TFs present in phages. The interaction between Cro and CI affects bacteria immunity status in Enterohemorrhagic Escherichia coli (EHEC) strains(Jin et al., 2022). RM systems are known as a kind of phage-defense system, and hence we mentioned it here. We have added this description in the revised manuscript. Please see Lines 152-154.

      Reference:

      (1) Doberenz, S., Eckweiler, D., Reichert, O., Jensen, V., Bunk, B., Sproer, C., Kordes, A., Frangipani, E., Luong, K., Korlach, J., et al. (2017). Identification of a Pseudomonas aeruginosa PAO1 DNA Methyltransferase, Its Targets, and Physiological Roles. mBio 8. 10.1128/mBio.02312-16.

      (2) Fan, L., Wang, T., Hua, C., Sun, W., Li, X., Grunwald, L., Liu, J., Wu, N., Shao, X., Yin, Y., et al. (2020). A compendium of DNA-binding specificities of transcription factors in Pseudomonas syringae. Nat Commun 11, 4947. 10.1038/s41467-020-18744-7.

      (3) Gonzalez, D., and Collier, J. (2013). DNA methylation by CcrM activates the transcription of two genes required for the division of Caulobacter crescentus. Mol Microbiol 88, 203-218. 10.1111/mmi.12180.

      (4) Hampton, H.G., Watson, B.N., and Fineran, P.C. (2020). The arms race between bacteria and their phage foes. Nature 577, 327-336.

      (5) Hoskisson, P.A., Sumby, P., and Smith, M.C. (2015). The phage growth limitation system in Streptomyces coelicolor A (3) 2 is a toxin/antitoxin system, comprising enzymes with DNA methyltransferase, protein kinase and ATPase activity. Virology 477, 100-109.

      (6) Iida, S., Streiff, M.B., Bickle, T.A., and Arber, W. (1987). Two DNA antirestriction systems of bacteriophage P1, darA, and darB: characterization of darA− phages. Virology 157, 156-166.

      (7) Jin, M., Chen, J., Zhao, X., Hu, G., Wang, H., Liu, Z., and Chen, W.-H. (2022). An engineered λ phage enables enhanced and strain-specific killing of enterohemorrhagic Escherichia coli. Microbiology Spectrum 10, e01271-01222.

      (8) Krebes, J., Morgan, R.D., Bunk, B., Sproer, C., Luong, K., Parusel, R., Anton, B.P., Konig, C., Josenhans, C., Overmann, J., et al. (2014). The complex methylome of the human gastric pathogen Helicobacter pylori. Nucleic Acids Res 42, 2415-2432. 10.1093/nar/gkt1201.

      (9) Loenen, W.A., Dryden, D.T., Raleigh, E.A., Wilson, G.G., and Murray, N.E. (2014). Highlights of the DNA cutters: a short history of the restriction enzymes. Nucleic Acids Res 42, 3-19.

      (10) Murphy, J., Mahony, J., Ainsworth, S., Nauta, A., and van Sinderen, D. (2013). Bacteriophage orphan DNA methyltransferases: insights from their bacterial origin, function, and occurrence. Appl Environ Microb 79, 7547-7555.

      (11) Oliveira, P.H., Touchon, M., and Rocha, E.P. (2014). The interplay of restriction-modification systems with mobile genetic elements and their prokaryotic hosts. Nucleic Acids Res 42, 10618-10631.

      (12) Sanchez-Romero, M.A., and Casadesus, J. (2020). The bacterial epigenome. Nature reviews. Microbiology 18, 7-20. 10.1038/s41579-019-0286-2.

      (13) Shao, X., Tan, M., Xie, Y., Yao, C., Wang, T., Huang, H., Zhang, Y., Ding, Y., Liu, J., Han, L., et al. (2021). Integrated regulatory network in Pseudomonas syringae reveals dynamics of virulence. Cell Rep 34, 108920. 10.1016/j.celrep.2021.108920.

      (14) Sun, Y., Li, J., Huang, J., Li, S., Li, Y., Lu, B., and Deng, X. (2024). Architecture of genome-wide transcriptional regulatory network reveals dynamic functions and evolutionary trajectories in Pseudomonas syringae. bioRxiv, 2024.2001. 2018.576191.

      (15) Vasu, K., and Nagaraja, V. (2013). Diverse functions of restriction-modification systems in addition to cellular defense. Microbiol Mol Biol Rev 77, 53-72. 10.1128/MMBR.00044-12.

    1. Though some o' the court hold it presumption To instruct princes what they ought to do, It is a noble duty to inform them What they ought to foresee

      I relate this to something that happens every day. While some people have the power to make decisions, others have to suffer the consequences.

    2. This morning, the provisorship o' the horse

      I believe here, Ferdinand is asking/ telling Bosola to keep an eye on the Duchess, and offering him compensation. The language used here is also very based on imagery and metaphors which I enjoy

    1. Once you’ve created some plasma, what’s next? The stuff wriggles and squirms like a snake of superhot Jell-O, so you have to hold it steady, otherwise it could whip out and melt your equipment. Or it might just fall apart, for as violent as the plasma is, it is also fragile: You could snuff it out by blowing on it.

      The paradox presented in this paragraph lead me to question the safety of this "new" energy. Although plasma has been developed artificially, it is extremely difficult to keep stable. If it is to be the new oil, I would argue it must be as stable, accessible, and transportable as the former. It is this unpredictability of plasma and the novelty of the technology that suggest that we are far from fission take over. We must start small, testing in smaller communities and recording the biological/genetic compromises of fission energy prior to fueling the world on a new star.

    1. ArmoRM. Wang et al. (2024b) argue that cur-rent reward models often conflate different objec-tives, making it difficult to discern which aspectsof the input data influence their scoring. To ad-dress this, they proposed the ArmoRM (AbsoluteRating Multi-Objective Reward Model). As illus-trated in Figure 14, the model processes a contextand multiple candidate responses, evaluating themacross interpretable dimensions such as honesty,safety, verbosity, and relevance. Each dimensionis assessed by a dedicated sub-model that gener-ates individual scores. These scores are then dy-namically weighted by a gating network, whichadapts to the context and produces a final rewardscore used as feedback for reinforcement learn-ing. This mixture-of-experts approach effectivelyseparates the objectives, allowing the scores to bemore clearly attributed to specific input featuresor goals, thus improving both interpretability andtransparency

      ArmoRM: chỉ ra rằng các reward model hiện tại thường kết hợp nhiều mục tiêu vào với nhau, khiến cho việc nhận biết các yếu tố ảnh hưởng đến điểm số trở nên khó khăn hơn. Đề xuất mô hình ArmoRM. Mô hình sẽ xử lý 1 ngữ cảnh và nhiều phản hồi ứng viên, đánh giá ở nhiều lĩnh vực có thể suy luận được như tính trung thực, tính an toàn, tính dài dòng và tính liên quan. Sau đó, các điểm này sẽ được gán trọng số 1 cách linh động và đạo thành điểm reward cuối cùng làm phản hồi cho quá trình học tăng cường.

    2. (1) Rewarding: In this step, the LLM generatesmultiple outputs in response to a given instruction.Each output is then passed through the trained re-ward model, which assigns a scalar score that ap-proximates human preferences.(2) Policy Optimization: In this step, the LLM isfine-tuned by adjusting its parameters to maximizethe predicted reward, using the Proximal Policy Op-timization (PPO) (Schulman et al., 2017) or TrustRegion Policy Optimization (TRPO) (Schulman,2015) algorithm.

      2 bước chính trong quá trình tối ưu sử dụng human feedback: - Gán phần thưởng: Ở bước này, LLM sẽ sinh nhiều đầu ra ứng với 1 đầu vào. Mỗi đầu ra sau đó được đưa vào reward model đã được huấn luyện. Mô hình này gán điểm cho đầu ra.

    3. (1) Collecting Human Feedback to TrainReward Model, where human evaluators providefeedback on the LLM’s outputs by scoring or rank-ing responses based on factors such as quality andrelevance. This feedback is then used to train a re-ward model that predicts the quality of the outputsand serves as the reward function in the RL process;and (2) Preference Optimization Using HumanFeedback, where the trained reward model guidesthe optimization of the LLM’s outputs to maximizepredicted rewards, aligning the LLM’s behaviorwith human preferences. Below, we will illustratethese two components via recent research studies

      2 giai đoạn của RLHF: - Thu thập dữ liệu human feedback để huấn luyện reward model mà ở đó, con người sẽ cung cấp phản hồi đối với đầu ra của LLM bằng cách chấm điểm hoặc xếp hạng các phản hồi dựa trên các yếu tố như chất lượng hoặc tính liên quan. Các phản hồi này sau đó được sử dụng để huấn luyện một reward model

      • Tối ưu policy sử dụng phản hồi của con người: trong đó, reward model hướng dẫn quá trình tối ưu đầu ra của LLM để tối đa hóa giá trị của reward model,
    4. The post-training process for aligning Llama 3with human feedback involves six rounds of iter-ative refinement. Each round includes supervisedfine-tuning (SFT) followed by DPO, with the fi-nal model being an average of the outputs from allrounds. For each round, a reward model (RM) istrained on newly collected preference annotationdata, targeting a wide range of capabilities builtupon the pre-trained checkpoint. After SFT, DPOis applied to further optimize the SFT models, us-ing recent preference data batches obtained fromthe best-performing models of previous rounds. Toenhance the stability of DPO training, two key ad-justments are implemented: masking out format-ting tokens in the DPO loss and introducing reg-ularization via an NLL (negative log-likelihood)loss.

      Qúa trình hậu huấn luyện của Llama 3 bao gồm 6 vòng lặp tinh chỉnh. Mỗi vòng bao gồm việc SFT sau đó đên DPO. cùng với việc mô hình cuối cùng là trung bình cộng của đầu ra tại tất cả các vòng. Ở mỗi vòng, một reward model được huấn luyện trên một tập dữ liệu preference được thu thập mới, nhắm đến một loạt các khả năng được xây dựng dựa trên các checkpoint của pre-train trước đó. Sau SFT, DPI được áp dụng, sử dụng các dữ liệu preference hiện có thu được từ các mô hình tốt nhất ở các vòng trước đó. Để tăng tính ổn định trong huấn luyện DPO, 2 điều chỉnh đã được tích hợp: che các token dùng để bố cục khỏi hàm mất mát DPO và sử dụng regularization thông qua hàm mất mát NLL.

    5. GPT-4 leverages RLHF methods, as outlinedin InstructGPT (Ouyang et al., 2022) which wehave describe in Sec 3.1, in the post-training align-ment stage. To steer the models more effectivelytowards appropriate refusals at a finer level, theauthors further use a zero-shot GPT-4 classifier asthe rule-based reward model (RBRM). This RBRMprovides an additional reward signal to the GPT-4policy model during PPO fine-tuning on a subsetof training prompts. The RBRM takes a prompt(optional), the policy model’s output, and a human-written rubric (e.g., a set of rules in multiple-choicestyle) as input, then classifies the output accord-ing to the rubric. Through this approach, GPT-4is rewarded for refusing harmful content and forappropriately responding to known-safe prompts.

      GPT-4 tận dụng các phương pháp RLHF, như được mô tả trong InstructGPT. Ngoài ra, để chỉ đạo các mô hình hướng đến việc có thể đưa ra các lời từ chối phù hợp một cách hiệu quả hơn ở một mức độ cao hơn, các tác giả đã sử dụng một mô hình zero-shot GPT-4 classifier như là một rule-based reward model (RBRM). Mô hình này cung cấp một tín hiệu reward bổ sung vào mô hình policy của GPT-4 trong quá trình fine-tune PPO với 1 tập nhỏ của bộ dữ liệu huấn luyện. RBRM lấy 1 prompt, đầu ra của mô hình policy, và tập các đầu mục được viết bởi người (một tập các luật được viết bằng phong cách multiple-choice) làm đầu vào, sau đó phân loại đầu ra dựa trên tập các đầu mục đó. Thông qua cách tiếp cận này, GPT-4 được thưởng khi từ chối các nội dung độc hại và phản hồi một cách hợp lý các nội dung an toàn.

    1. 3 RESULTS

      There are no graphs :O

      I will read tables under duress, but I will also skip them and move on to the discussion first. If I get to the first paragraph in the discussion and I need to come back and look at data, I will consider reading a table. But I hate tables.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors wanted to use AlphaFold-multimer (AFm) predictions to reduce the challenge of physics-based protein-protein docking.

      Strengths:

      They found two features of AFm predictions that are very useful. 1) pLLDT is predictive of flexible residues, which they could target for conformational sampling during docking; 2) the interface-pLLDT score is predictive of the quality of AFm predictions, which allows the authors to decide whether to do local or global docking.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) As admitted by the authors, the AFm predictions for the main dataset are undoubtedly biased because these structures were used for AFm training. Could the authors find a way to assess the extent of this bias?<br /> (2) For the CASP15 targets where this bias is absent, the presentation was very brief. In particular, I'm interested in seeing how AFm helped with the docking? They may even want to do a direct comparison with docking results w/o the help of AFm.

      Comments on revisions:

      This revision has addressed my previous comments.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review): 

      Hotinger et al. explore the population dynamics of Salmonella enterica serovar Typhimurium in mice using genetically tagged bacteria. In addition to physiological observations, pathology assessments, and CFU measurements, the study emphasizes quantifying host bottleneck sizes that limit Salmonella colonization and dissemination. The authors also investigate the genetic distances between bacterial populations at various infection sites within the host.

      Initially, the study confirms that pretreatment with the antibiotic streptomycin before inoculation via orogastric gavage increases the bacterial burden in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, leading to more severe symptoms and heightened fecal shedding of bacteria. This pretreatment also significantly reduces between-animal variation in bacterial burden and fecal shedding. The authors then calculate founding population sizes across different organs, discovering a severe bottleneck in the intestine, with founding populations reduced by approximately 10^6-fold compared to the inoculum size. Streptomycin pretreatment increases the founding population size and bacterial replication in the GI tract. Moreover, by calculating genetic distances between populations, the authors demonstrate that, in untreated mice, Salmonella populations within the GI tract are genetically dissimilar, suggesting limited exchange between colonization sites. In contrast, streptomycin pretreatment reduces genetic distances, indicating increased exchange.

      In extraintestinal organs, the bacterial burden is generally not substantially increased by streptomycin pretreatment, with significant differences observed only in the mesenteric lymph nodes and bile. However, the founding population sizes in these organs are increased. By comparing genetic distances between organs, the authors provide evidence that subpopulations colonizing extraintestinal organs diverge early after infection from those in the GI tract. This hypothesis is further tested by measuring bacterial burden and founding population sizes in the liver and GI tract at 5 and 120 hours post-infection. Additionally, they compare orogastric gavage infection with the less injurious method of infection via drinking, finding similar results for CFUs, founding populations, and genetic distances. These results argue against injuries during gavage as a route of direct infection. 

      To bypass bottlenecks associated with the GI tract, the authors compare intravenous (IV) and intraperitoneal (IP) routes of infection. They find approximately a 10-fold increase in bacterial burden and founding population size in immune-rich organs with IV/IP routes compared to orogastric gavage in streptomycin-pretreated animals. This difference is interpreted as a result of "extra steps required to reach systemic organs."

      While IP and IV routes yield similar results in immune-rich organs, IP infections lead to higher bacterial burdens in nearby sites, such as the pancreas, adipose tissue, and intraperitoneal wash, as well as somewhat increased founding population sizes. The authors correlate these findings with the presence of white lesions in adipose tissue. Genetic distance comparisons reveal that, apart from the spleen and liver, IP infections lead to genetically distinct populations in infected organs, whereas IV infections generally result in higher genetic similarity. 

      Finally, the authors investigate GI tract reseeding, identifying two distinct routes. They observe that the GI tracts of IP/IV-infected mice are colonized either by a clonal or a diversely tagged bacterial population. In clonally reseeded animals, the genetic distance within the GI tract is very low (often zero) compared to the bile population, which is predominantly clonal or pauciclonal. These animals also display pathological signs, such as cloudy/hardened bile and increased bacterial burden, leading the authors to conclude that the GI tract was reseeded by bacteria from the gallbladder bile. In contrast, animals reseeded by more complex bacterial populations show that bile contributes only a minor fraction of the tags. Given the large founding population size in these animals' GI tracts, which is larger than in orogastrically infected animals, the authors suggest a highly permissive second reseeding route, largely independent of bile. They speculate that this route may involve a reversal of known mechanisms that the pathogen uses to escape from the intestine. 

      The manuscript presents a substantial body of work that offers a meticulously detailed understanding of the population dynamics of S. Typhimurium in mice. It quantifies the processes shaping the within-host dynamics of this pathogen and provides new insights into its spread, including previously unrecognized dissemination routes. The methodology is appropriate and carefully executed, and the manuscript is well-written, clearly presented, and concise. The authors' conclusions are well-supported by experimental results and thoroughly discussed. This work underscores the power of using highly diverse barcoded pathogens to uncover the within-host population dynamics of infections and will likely inspire further investigations into the molecular mechanisms underlying the bottlenecks and dissemination routes described here.

      Major point:

      Substantial conclusions in the manuscript rely on genetic distance measurements using the Cavalli-Sforza chord distance. However, it is unclear whether these genetic distance measurements are independent of the founding population size. I would anticipate that in populations with larger founding population sizes, where the relative tag frequencies are closer to those in the inoculum, the genetic distances would appear smaller compared to populations with smaller founding sizes independent of their actual relatedness. This potential dependency could have implications for the interpretation of findings, such as those in Figures 2B and 2D, where antibiotic-pretreated animals consistently exhibit higher founding population sizes and smaller genetic distances compared to untreated animals.

      Thank you for raising this important point regarding reliance on cord distances for gauging genetic distance in barcoded populations. The reviewer is correct that samples with more founders will be more similar to the inoculum and thus inherently more similar to other samples that also have more founders. However, creation of libraries containing very large numbers of unique barcodes can often circumvent this issue. In this case, the effect size of chance-based similarity is not large enough to change the interpretation of the data in Figures 2B and 2D. In our case, the library has ~6x10<sup>4</sup> barcodes, and the founding populations in Figure 2B are ~10<sup>3</sup>. Randomly resampling to create two populations of 10<sup>3</sup> cells from an initial population with 6x10<sup>4</sup> barcodes is expected to yield largely distinct populations with very little similarity. Thus, the similarity between streptomycin-treated populations in Figure 2D is likely the result of biology rather than chance.  

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      In this paper, Hotinger et. al. propose an improved barcoded library system, called STAMPR, to study Salmonella population dynamics during infection. Using this system, the authors demonstrate significant diversity in the colonization of different Salmonella clones (defined by the presence of different barcodes) not only across different organs (liver, spleen, adipose tissues, pancreas, and gall bladder) but also within different compartments of the same gastrointestinal tissue. Additionally, this system revealed that microbiota competition is the major bottleneck in Salmonella intestinal colonization, which can be mitigated by streptomycin treatment. However, this has been demonstrated previously in numerous publications. They also show that there was minimal sharing between populations found in the intestine and those in the other organs. Upon IV and IP infection to bypass the intestinal bottleneck, they were able to demonstrate, using this library, that Salmonella can renter the intestine through two possible routes. One route is essentially the reverse path used to escape the gut, leading to a diverse intestinal population; while the other, through the bile, typically results in a clonal population. Although the authors showed that the STAMPR pipeline improved the ability to identify founder populations and their diversity within the same animal during infections, some of the conclusions appear speculative and not fully supported.

      (1) It's particularly interesting how the authors, using this system, demonstrate the dominant role of the microbiota bottleneck in Salmonella colonization and how it is widened by antibiotic treatment (Figure 1). Additionally, the ability to track Salmonella reseeding of the gut from other organs starting with IV and IP injections of the pathogen provides a new tool to study population dynamics (Figure 5). However, I don't think it is possible to argue that the proximal and distal small intestine, Peyer's patches (PPs), cecum, colon, and feces have different founder populations for reasons other than stochastic variations. All the barcoded Salmonella clones have the same fitness and the fact that some are found or expanded in one region of the gastrointestinal tract rather than another likely results from random chance - such as being forced in a specific region of the gut for physical or spatial reasons-and subsequent expansion, rather than any inherent biological cause. For example, some bacteria may randomly adhere to the mucus, some may swim toward the epithelial layer, while others remain in the lumen; all will proliferate in those respective sites. In this way, different founder populations arise based on random localization during movement through the gastrointestinal tract, which is an observation, but it doesn't significantly contribute to understanding pathogen colonization dynamics or pathogenesis. Therefore, I would suggest placing less emphasis on describing these differences or better discussing this aspect, especially in the context of the gastrointestinal tract.

      Thank you for helping us identify this area for further clarification. We agree with the reviewer’s interpretation that seeding of proximal and distal small intestine, Peyer's patches (PPs), cecum, colon, and feces with different founder populations is likely caused by stochastic variations, consistent with separate stochastic bottlenecks to establishing these separate niches. To clarify this point we have modified the text in the results section, “Streptomycin treatment decreases compartmentalization of S. Typhimurium populations within the intestine”.

      Change to text:

      “Except for the cecum and colon, in untreated animals the S. Typhimurium populations in different regions of the intestine were dissimilar (Avg. GD ranged from 0.369 to 0.729, 2D left); i.e., there is little sharing between populations in the intestine. These data suggest that there are separate bottlenecks in different regions of the intestine that cause stochastic differences in the identity of the founders. Interestingly, when these founders replicate, they do not mix, remaining compartmentalized with little sharing between populations throughout the intestinal tract (i.e., barcodes found in one region are not in other regions, Figure S3). This was surprising as the luminal contents, an environment presumably conducive to bacterial movement, were not removed from these samples.”

      In this section we are interested in the underlying biology that occurs after the initial bottleneck to preserve this compartmentalization during outgrowth of the intestinal population. In other words, what prevents these separate populations from merging (e.g., what prevents the bacteria replicating in the proximal small intestine from traveling through the intestine and establishing a niche in the distal small intestine)? While we do not explore the mechanisms of compartmentalization, we observe that it is disrupted by streptomycin pretreatment, suggesting a microbiota-dependent biological cause. 

      (2) I do think that STAMPR is useful for studying the dynamics of pathogen spread to organs where Salmonella likely resides intracellularly (Figure 3). The observation that the liver is colonized by an early intestinal population, which continues to proliferate at a steady rate throughout the infection, is very interesting and may be due to the unique nature of the organ compared to the mucosal environment. What is the biological relevance during infection? Do the authors observe the same pattern (Figures 3C and G) when normalizing the population data for the spleen and mesenteric lymph nodes (mLN)? If not, what do the authors think is driving this different distribution?

      Thank you for raising this interesting point. These data indicate that the liver is seeded from the intestine early during infection. The timing and source of dissemination have relevance for understanding how host and pathogen variables control the spread of bacteria to systemic sites. For example, our conclusion (early dissemination) indicates that the immune state of a host at the time of exposure to a pathogen, and for a short period thereafter, are what primarily influence the process of dissemination, not the later response to an active infection. 

      We observe that the liver and mucosal environments within the intestine have similar colonization behaviors. Both niches are seeded early during infection, followed by steady pathogen proliferation and compartmentalization that apparently inhibits further seeding. This results in the identity of barcodes in the liver population remaining distinct from the intestinal populations, and the intestinal populations remaining distinct from each other.

      We observe a similar pattern to the liver in the spleen and MLN (the barcodes in the spleen and MLN are dissimilar to the population in the intestine). To clarify this point, we have modified the text (below) and added this analysis as a supplemental figure (S4).

      Change to text:

      Genetic distance comparison of liver samples to other sites revealed that, regardless of streptomycin treatment, there was very little sharing of barcodes between the intestine and extraintestinal sites (Avg. GD >0.75, Figure 3C). Furthermore, the MLN and spleen populations also lacked similarity with the intestine (Figure S4). These analyses strongly support the idea that S. Typhimurium disseminates to extraintestinal organs relatively early following inoculation, before it establishes a replicative niche in the intestine.

      (3) Figure 6: Could the bile pathology be due to increased general bacterial translocation rather than Salmonella colonization specifically? Did the authors check for the presence of other bacteria (potentially also proliferating) in the bile? Do the authors know whether Salmonella's metabolic activity in the bile could be responsible for gallbladder pathology?

      The reviewer raises interesting points for future work. We did not check whether other bacterial species are translocating during S. Typhimurium infection. The relevance of Salmonella’s metabolic activity is also very interesting, and we hope these questions will be answered by future studies.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations for the authors):

      Minor points:

      (1) P. 9/10 "... the marked delay in shedding after IP and IV relative to orogastric inoculation suggest that the S. Typhimurium population encounters substantial bottleneck(s) on the route(s) from extraintestinal sites back to the intestine.": Can you conclude that from the data? It could also be possible that there is a biological mechanism (other than chance events) that delays the re-entry to the intestine.

      We propose that the delay in shedding indicates additional obstacles that bacteria face when re-entering the intestine, and that there are likely biological mechanisms that cause this delay. However, these unknown mechanisms effectively act as additional bottlenecks by causing a stochastic loss of population diversity. 

      (2) P. 11 "...both organs would likely contain all 10 barcodes. In contrast, a library with 10,000 barcodes can be used to distinguish between a bottleneck resulting in Ns = 1,000 and Ns = 10,000, since these bottlenecks result in a different number of barcodes in output samples. Furthermore, high diversity libraries reduce the likelihood that two tissue samples share the same barcode(s) due to random chance, enabling more accurate quantification of bacterial dissemination.": I agree with the general analysis, but I find it misleading to talk about the presence of barcodes when the analyses in this manuscript are based on the much more powerful comparison of relative abundance of individual tags instead of their presence or absence.

      The reviewer raises an excellent point, and the distinction between relative abundance versus presence/absence is discussed extensively in the original STAMPR manuscript. Although relative abundance is powerful, the primary metric used in this study (Ns) is calculated principally from the number of barcodes, corrected (via simulations) for the probability of observing the same barcode across distinct founders. Although this correction procedure does rely on barcode abundance, the primary driver of founding population quantification is the number of barcodes.

      (3) P.14 "the library in LB supplemented with SM was not significantly different than the parent strain" and Figure 2C: How was significance tested? How many times were the growth curves recorded? On my print-out, the red color has different shades for different growth curves.

      Significance was tested with a Mann-Whitney and growth curves were performed 5 times. Growth curves are displayed with 50% opacity, and as a result multiple curves directly on top of each other appear darker. The legend to S2 has been modified accordingly.

      (4) P.16: close bracket in the equation for FRD calculation.

      Done

      (5) Figure 2C "Average CFU per founder": I found the wording confusing at first as I thought you divided the average bacterial burden per organ by Ns, instead of averaging the CFU/Ns calculated for each mouse.

      The wording has been clarified. 

      (6) Figure 3B: It would be helpful to include expected genetic distances in the schematic as it is difficult to infer the genetic distance when only two of three, respectively, different "barcode colors" are used. While I find the explanation in the main text intuitive, a graphical representation would have helped me.

      Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately, using colors to represent barcodes is imperfect and limits the diversity that can be depicted. We have modified Figure 3B to further clarify. 

      (7) Figure 3C: Why do you compare the genetic distance to the liver, when you discuss the genetic distance of the intestinal population? Is it not possible that the intestinal populations are similar to the extraintestinal organs except the liver?

      For clarity, we chose to highlight exclusively the liver. However, we observed a similar pattern to the liver in other extraintestinal organs. To clarify the generalizability of this point we have added a supplemental figure with comparisons to MLN and Spleen (Supplemental figure S4) as well as further text.

      (8) Figure 3C & S5A: I found "+SM" and "+SM, Drinking" confusing and would have preferred "+SM, Gavage" and "+SM, Drinking" for clarity.

      Done, thank you for the suggestion.

      (9) Figure 3G&H: I find it worthy of discussion that the bacterial burden increases over time, while the founding population decreases. Does that not indicate that replication only occurs at specific sites leading to the amplification of only a few barcodes and thereby a larger change of the relative barcode abundance compared to the inoculum?

      From 5h to 120h the size of the founding population decreases in multiple intestinal sites. This likely indicates that the impact of the initial bottleneck is still ongoing at 5h, although further temporal analysis would be required to define the exact timing of the bottleneck. Notably, the passage time through the mouse intestine is ~5h. Many of the founders observed at 5h could be a population that will never establish a replicative niche, and failing to colonize be shed in the feces, bottlenecking the population between 5h and 120h. To clarify this point we have added the following text:

      Section “S. Typhimurium disseminates out of the intestine before establishing an intestinal replicative niche”.

      “In contrast to the liver, there were more founders present in samples from the intestine (particularly in the colon) at 5 hours versus 120 hours (Figure 3H). These data likely indicate that many of the founders observed in the intestine at 5 hours are shed in the feces prior to establishing a replicative niche, and demonstrates that the forces restricting the S. Typhimurium population in the intestine act over a period of > 5 hours.”  

      (10) Figure S2A: I do not understand this figure. Why are there more than 70.000 tags listed? I was under the impression the barcode library in S. Typhimurium had 55.000 tags while only the plasmid pSM1 had more than 70.000 (but the plasmid should not be relevant here). Why are there distinct lines at approximately 10^-5 and a bit lower? I would have expected continuously distributed barcode frequencies.

      During barcode analysis, each library is mapped to the total barcode list in the barcode donor pSM1, which contains ~70,000 barcodes. This enables consistent analysis across different bacterial libraries. The designation “barcode number” refers to the barcode number in pSM1, meaning many of the barcodes in the Salmonella library are at zero reads. This graph type was chosen to show there was no bias toward a particular barcode, however there is significant overlap of the points, making individual barcode frequencies difficult to see. We have changed the x-axis to state “pSM1 Barcode Number” and clarified in the figure legend.

      Since the y-axes on these graphs is on a log10 scale, the lines represent barcodes with 1 read, 2 reads, 3 reads, etc. As the number of reads per barcode increases linearly, the space between them decreases on logarithmic axes.

      (11) There are a few typos in the figure legends of the supplementary material. For example Figure S2: S. Typhimurium not italicized, ~7x105 no superscript. Fig. S4&5 ", Open circles" is "O" is capitalized.

      Typos have been corrected.

    1. 双指针利用了区间「单调性」的性质,可以将时间复杂度降到 O(n)O(n)O(n)。

      也就是说只能在有序的情况下使用该方法

    1. От ЕСТЬ мы отпали в ДОЛЖНО БЫТЬ, как ученик Аристотеля Александр Македонский полнотой мира жил как своей главной мыслью, но перестал видеть полноту мира как то, что уже есть, и вообразил ее под ДÓЛЖНО, достижимой, как только эллинская армия, перейдя Ганг, пройдет небольшое оставшееся расстояние до берега океана и, значит, до последнего края всего круга земель.
    1. essa tarefa está presente no cotidiano das pessoas em diversos lugares como:

      Essa frase dá impressão que as tarefas fazem parte da vida das pessoas, tipo como se o próprio usuário classificasse um e-mail, mas na verdade isso é são os modelos e é transparente para o usuário. Talvez valha reecrever

    Annotators

    1. 3.2 Process Scheduling

      Section 3.2 discusses the process scheduling in operating systems, focusing on multiprogramming and time-sharing objectives. The process scheduler selects processes for CPU time to ensure efficient resource use. In Linux, processes are represented by the task_struct structure, containing key information like process state, memory, and scheduling details. Processes are organized in scheduling queues, including the ready queue (waiting for CPU time) and wait queues (waiting for events like I/O). The CPU scheduler allocates time to processes, executing frequently and sometimes using swapping to manage memory resources. A context switch occurs when the system saves the current process's state and loads a new one, but it introduces overhead, affecting performance. In mobile systems, multitasking is handled differently, with early iOS versions limiting background tasks while Android allows background services to run continuously. This section emphasizes the critical role of scheduling, context switching, and queue management in optimizing system efficiency and responsiveness.

    2. Process Control Block Each process is represented in the operating system by a process control block (PCB)—also called a task control block. A PCB is shown in Figure 3.3. It contains many pieces of information associated with a specific process, including these: Process state. The state may be new, ready, running, waiting, halted, and so on. Program counter. The counter indicates the address of the next instruction to be executed for this process. CPU registers. The registers vary in number and type, depending on the computer architecture. They include accumulators, index registers, stack pointers, and general-purpose registers, plus any condition-code information. Along with the program counter, this state information must be saved when an interrupt occurs, to allow the process to be continued correctly afterward when it is rescheduled to run. CPU-scheduling information. This information includes a process priority, pointers to scheduling queues, and any other scheduling parameters. (Chapter 5 describes process scheduling.) Memory-management information. This information may include such items as the value of the base and limit registers and the page tables, or the segment tables, depending on the memory system used by the operating system (Chapter 9). Accounting information. This information includes the amount of CPU and real time used, time limits, account numbers, job or process numbers, and so on. I/O status information. This information includes the list of I/O devices allocated to the process, a list of open files, and so on.

      The OS tracks each process using a PCB, which stores critical information like process state, program counter, CPU registers, memory management data, and I/O status. This allows the OS to pause and resume processes efficiently.

    3. Process State

      A process moves between five states—New, Ready, Running, Waiting, and Terminated—based on CPU availability, I/O operations, and scheduling decisions. Only one process can run on a core at any given time, but many can be ready to execute.

    1. locutionary or illocutionary purposes o

      locutionary: the utterance itself illocutionary: the meaning behind a sentence (the speaker's intention; illocutionary act ~ illocutionary force

    Annotators

    1. It is not designed for me to discover more lands than the one in which we are now living, nor can we now continue longer together.” Erik returned home to Brattahlid, and Leif pursued his way to the ship with his companions, thirty-five men. O

      i wonder if this is some sort of historical fact or just a common motif in icelandic sagas about the son's jounrey only being possible with the father out of the way, and his death later in the passage is being foreshadowed here

    1. when I muse that splendour, passing speech, Of Hari, visible and plain, there is no tongue to reach My marvel and my love and bliss. O Archer-Prince! all hail!

      It is not the two main characters who gets the final word in this text, it is actually the third-person narrator who introduced the story who gets that honor; and, he does so by lauding praises upon the hero and the god who spent time to belay the fighter's doubts.

      The way Sanjaya lauds the two heroes is not dissimilar to how some modern individuals do with Arjuna and Krishna too. In fact, the story of the Bhagavad Gita and its heroes have been used in recent times for political agendas and a symbol of national identities for India. Described in Chapter 4 in Richard H. Davis' book about the religious text is how the Bhagavad Gita has been used by Indian nationalists to motivate their countrymen to stand up against colonialism and fight for independence. Activists leaders such as Tilak argue that the whole story itself is Krishna encouraging Arjuna to fight despite mental turmoil it can present which is very apt to the Indian populace living under the reign of a foreign power (Davis, 132). This view contrasts strongly to the way Gandhi justified his actions using the text. Gandhi was motivated by the text to maintain his peaceful methods of fighting for independence (143).

      I find it interesting how two individuals reading the same text and fighting for the same goal can come to such different methods on how to reach the destination they both want to achieve.

      Work Cited Davis, Richard H. The Bhagavad Gita: A Biography. Core Textbook ed. Princeton University Press, 2014. Project MUSE, https://muse.jhu.edu/book/36539.

    2. When one, O Pritha’s Son! Abandoning desires which shake the mind– Finds in his soul full comfort for his soul, He hath attained the Yog–that man is such! In sorrows not dejected, and in joys Not overjoyed; dwelling outside the stress Of passion, fear, and anger; fixed in calms Of lofty contemplation;–such an one Is Muni, is the Sage, the true Recluse!

      This entire monologue at the very end of chapter II (from lines 335 to 406) serves as Krishna laying the groundwork of his greater argument about dharma and the Karma Yoga, or Path of Selfless Service, which is expounded upon further in chapter III (Soni, 2024). Having previously chastised Arjuna for the strength of his earthly attachments, Krishna goes on to praise those who forgo such things, using the example of a tortoise retreating wholly into its shell to describe the wisemen who shun the suffering that comes with society. He acknowledges, however, that it is yet more difficult and impressive to abjure attachments and sensation while also performing one's duty.

      Soni, Aditya. (2024). A Comprehensive Review of the Bhagavad Gita: Insights into Philosophy, Ethics, and Spirituality. 10.13140/RG.2.2.22045.52961

    3. I am the fresh taste of the water; I The silver of the moon, the gold o’ the sun,

      This line creates emphasis on the presence of the divine by using symbolism. The fresh taste of water symbolizes the nourishment and purity. The silver of the moon symbolizes calmness and on the other side, the sun symbolizes the energy and the warmth.

      Citations:

      Timpe, Eugene F. “Hesse’s Siddhartha and the Bhagavad Gita.” Comparative Literature, vol. 22, no. 4, 1970, pp. 346–57. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/1769580. Accessed 1 Feb. 2025.

      “Bhagavad Gita Summary - Chapter 7.” Bhagavad Gita Summary - Chapter 7 | Bhagavad Gita, www.holybhagavadgita.org/bhagavad-gita-summary-chapter-7/. Accessed 31 Jan. 2025.

    1. I’ll blurt it out then–our women’s army’s mutinied. WOMEN O Zeus! LYSISTRATA What use is Zeus to our anatomy? Here is the gaping calamity I meant: I cannot shut their ravenous appetites A moment more now. They are all deserting. The first I caught was sidling through the postern Close by the Cave of Pan: the next hoisting herself With rope and pulley down: a third on the point Of slipping past: while a fourth malcontent, seated For instant flight to visit Orsilochus On bird-back, I dragged off by the hair in time…. They are all snatching excuses to sneak home. Look, there goes one…. Hey, what’s the hurry?

      In this part the women are attempting to abandon the cause. Lysistrata has convinced the women to withhold sex from their men but eventually they get weak and start coming up with excuses to go see the men. The main reason this is seen as a comedy is because women were not seen as leader and were portrayed as not having any power or influence. The men carried those traits. Modern day lysistrata is what we call feminism.

      https://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article13569.html

    1. In some localities visitadoras also worked as community organizers. In rural Pernambuco the model for community organization, before the pen­etration of the military presence into every nook and cranny of social life, was Paulo Freire' s method of conscientiza{ao (critical consciousness) through literacy training (see Freire 1970, 1973). And so my evenings were often spent in small "cultural circles," as they were called, where by the light of smoky and flickering kerosene lamps, residents and squatters of the Alto learned to read while simultaneously organizing around the founding of a shantytown association, which was known by the acronym UPAC (Uniao para o Progresso do Alto do Cruzeiro, or the Union for the Progress of the Alto do Cruzeiro). I served as a founding member and orientadora politica of UPAC, and I worked with members in the collective construction of a headquarters for "local action," a child care center that also served at nights and on weekends when the creche was closed as an adult literacy school, a game room, a dance hall, a house of Afro-Brazilian spiritism, and a large meeting room for the boisterous "general assemblies" of the shantytown association. Often I groped blindly to understand and act within a context of radical, sometimes opaque, cultural difference as well as within a situation of economic misery and political repression in which my own country playe&a contributing and supporting role.

      The function of visitadoras as community organizer is discussed in this section, especially in rural Pernambuco, where Paulo Freire's literacy-based approach to conscientização (critical consciousness) was a pioneering paradigm prior to military intrusion encroaching on social life. in the course of establishing the União para o Progresso do Alto do Cruzeiro (UPAC), a grassroots organization that addresses local needs the authority describes evenings spent in cultural circles which are an important part of Freire's teaching and where Alto inhabitants and squatters learnt to read. As an orientadora politica and founder member the author contributed to the creation of UPAC's headquarters, a multipurpose venue that serves as an Afro-Brazilian spiritist home, gaming room, dance hall, adult literacy school, child care center, and gathering spot for the associations vibrant general meetings.

    1. Mục lục

      Sự lật đổ đồng Anh từ vị trí đồng Đô => cuộc phản đòn từ đồng Anh => khoảng trống quyền lực tài chính => sự ra đời của thế chiến thứ 2 giúp đồng Đô vượt mặt bảng Anh trở thành đồng tiền chung thế giới Trung Quốc nếu muốn bành trướng ở khu vực thế giới =>, cần xác lập vị thế ở châu Á để có chung lợi ích => tức là dùng châu Á hợp sức đánh khối Mỹ hoặc châu Âu

    Annotators

    1. “O Zeus, O Earth, O Light:” The cry of a bride forlorn Heard ye, and wailing born Of lost delight?

      Here "[t]he cry of a bride forlorn" is referring to Medea's cry over the fact that Jason has left her for another despite everything she did to aid him on his quest for the Golden Fleece. "wailing born Of Lost delight" likely refers to how their relationship was once good, but now it is not. https://doi.org/10.2307/3346093

    2. O Cyprian, cast me not on these; but sift, Keen-eyed, of love the good and evil gift.

      Cyprian refers to Aphrodite the Goddess of love who had been born on the island of Cyprus (Notes and Study Guide).So, essentially the chorus is asking Aphrodite to not to give them love. The chorus recognizes the way love can be both good and evil. The chorus in this statement recognizes that love and hate are synonymous.

      Notes and Study Guide, jan.ucc.nau.edu/jgr6/201%20web/unit11/study_guide_media.htm. Accessed 31 Jan. 2025.

    3. Alas, the Love that falleth like a flood, Strong-winged and transitory: Why praise ye him? What beareth he of good To man, or glory? Yet Love there is that moves in gentleness, Heart-filling, sweetest of all powers that bless. Loose not on me, O Holder of man’s heart, Thy golden quiver, Nor steep in poison of desire the dart That heals not ever.

      Eros (commonly known by his Roman name Cupid) is the god of love, who wields a bow and quiver. He has two types of arrows: sharp, golden tipped arrows that make targets fall in love and blunt, lead tipped arrows that make targets immune to advances of love. In the Argonautica, Aphrodite persuades Eros to shoot Medea with a golden arrow to make her fall in love with Jason. This detail makes her story all the more tragic, since her love for him was unnatural and ephemeral and not the gentle form of love that brings lasting satisfaction.

      Sources: https://www.greekmythology.com/Other_Gods/Eros/eros.html https://www.worldhistory.org/Medea/

  2. Jan 2025
    1. ‘Tis not the first nor second time, O King, That fame hath hurt me, and come nigh to bring My ruin

      Medea's actions in previous books, like that of Argonautica, give her the reputation of a cunning and dangerous. In Argonautica Medea had killed Absyrtus and torn apart his body, with the sole intention of slowing down King Aeetes. Something to know is that Medea and Absyrtus are siblings, and that shows within the text Medea where Creon does not think killing or hurting those around her to be unheard of. Medea throughout her adventures is shown to do whatever she can to get what she wants, and it makes the people around her cautious and in some cases fear her. Within Medea Creon is shown to be cautious but also fear what Medea might do. Within Argonautica, and example of someone being cautious of Medea is when king Alcinous stated "Nor do I deem that these men, coming to plead their cause, are in any wise to blame;" after Medea had killed Aeëtes. He has a moral dilemma on whether to protect Medea.

      https://www.gutenberg.org/files/830/830-h/830-h.htm

    2. O woman, woman of sorrow, Where wilt thou turn and flee? What town shall be thine to-morrow, What land of all lands that be, What door of a strange man’s home? Yea, God hath hunted thee, Medea, forth to the foam Of a trackless sea.

      in this part I would like to annotate two things, the first part which refers to one of the biggest part of the story which is abandonment, Medea is suffering by know the necessity to leave and abandon. Followed by the las part which refers to having to leave to a different place by not knowing where to go through sea. This takes place in Colchis which is a distant land and she need to cross the sea to meet Jason. Robert Tyminski The Medea Complex—Myth and Modern Manifestation, Jung Journal 8, no.11 (Feb 2014): 28–40.

    3. as in law I may, Will keep thee and befriend. But in this land, Where Creon rules, I may not raise my hand To shelter thee.

      What Aegeus is refering to here is Xenia, more commonly known as the rules of hospitality, which has a set of rules that maintain host and foreigner relations to prevent any tensions from forming. If Aegeus were aid Medea in any way and Creon's attention is drawn to it, Creon may see it as an afront to him and his kingdom's safety, destroying good relations with both their kingdoms, especially when Creon treated Aegeus graciously by allowing him to visit Delphi.

      Shapiro, Susan O. and Jessica Mellenthin. “Xenia.” Uen.pressbooks.pub

    1. CINESIAS How wrong to follow other women’s counsel And let loose all these throbbing voids in yourself As well as in me. Don’t you go throb-throb? MYRRHINE Take away your hands. CINESIAS Everything in the house Is being ruined. MYRRHINE I don’t care at all. CINESIAS The roosters are picking all your web to rags. Do you mind that? MYRRHINE Not I. CINESIAS What time we’ve wasted We might have drenched with Paphian laughter, flung On Aphrodite’s Mysteries. O come here. MYRRHINE Not till a treaty finishes the war.

      Lines 1080-1192 show a conversation between Myrrhine, a woman that has joined Lysistrata in her sex strike plan, and her husband Cinesias. Cinesias begs his wife to come back home to him and their child, yet she refuses as she is dedicated to staying committed to the women's plan to get a peace treaty. She proves how committed she is to their cause by rejecting her husband. He attempts to have her feel pity and embarrassment when he judges her for following the other women in the city. But even when he speaks of how much their child misses her and that they could have been spending all of this time loving each other, Myrrhine sticks to the plan. Cinesias says that they could have been experiencing "Paphian laughter, flung on Aphrodite's Mysteries," meaning that they could have been laughing and falling more in love with each other during this time. Still, Myrrhine remains true to her beliefs and later chooses to tease Cinesias by stripping down, leading him to think that she was about to give herself to him, but she instead walks away, leaving him alone.

      This is a pivotal moment in the play, not only to show it's comedic writing, but to also show the dedication of the women. Myrrhine was not seen as a very important character until this moment. Her actions and words to her husband show that her belief in Lysistrata's plan to gain peace between the Spartans and Athenians. Myrrhine's actions are also comedic in nature, as she teases and abandons her husband, showing how desperate the men in the city are.

      References:

      Aristophanes. "Lysistrata, line 1080-1192." Introduction to World Literature Anthology, edited by Farrah Cato and Christian Beck, UCF Pressbooks, 2022. https://pressbooks.online.ucf.edu/lit2110fc/chapter/medea/

      Gruber-Miller, John. Gender in Greek Comedies. Cornell College https://www.cornellcollege.edu/classical_studies/lit/cla364-1-2006/02grouptwo/greek.htm

    2. O Goddess, suffer not, I pray, this harsh deed to be done, But show us Greece and Athens with their warlike acts repealed! For this alone, in this thy hold, Thou Goddess with the helm of gold, We laid hands on thy sanctuary, Athene…. Then our ally be And where they cast their fires of slaughter Direct our water!

      The prayer is invoking the goddess Athene (Athena) which is the goddess of wisdom and warfare. The prayer expresses peace in Greece due to the destructive nature of war. The speaker is appealing to the goddess to intervene and prevent further violence, suggesting that divine support is needed to stop the "harsh deed" of war. In the quote of "this thy hold" refers to sanctuary of Athene, showing the sacredness of her space and the gravity of the plea. By asking for help to "direct our water," the speaker symbolizes a desire for cleansing and renewal.

      Principe, Marie A. Women in Nonviolent Movements. US Institute of Peace, 2017. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep12551. Accessed 31 Jan. 2025.

    3. Then I’ll expose my mighty mystery. O women, if we would compel the men To bow to Peace, we must refrain–

      Lysistrata's "might mystery" is to refrain from having sex with the men so the war can end. This was used to show female solidarity and was a theme used by Aristophanes. This theme was provoked by the Peloponnesian war which is one of the reasonings for Aristophanes themes in his plays, and another focus is life in Athens. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Aristophanes

    1. I am the fresh taste of the water; I The silver of the moon, the gold o’ the sun, The word of worship in the Veds, the thrill That passeth in the ether, and the strength Of man’s shed seed. I am the good sweet smell Of the moistened earth, I am the fire’s red light, The vital air moving in all which moves, The holiness of hallowed souls, the root Undying, whence hath sprung whatever is; The wisdom of the wise, the intellect Of the informed, the greatness of the great. The splendour of the splendid. Kunti’s Son! These am I, free from passion and desire; Yet am I right desire in all who yearn, Chief of the Bharatas! for all those moods, Soothfast, or passionate, or ignorant,

      We learn that Krishna is a wise and powerful character early in The Gita. Though the extent of Krishna's being has not been fully revealed yet at this point in the novel, we see that this expert brings light on his spiritual divinity, expressing that Krishina is a grand array of things in the natural world and in human intellect. These are powerful claims, but are only further proven upon later in the text, and are important to amplify Arjuna's understanding of who he is speaking to and why he must carry on his actions. This expert begins to help us better comprehend who Krishna is, which will help us to also better understand what Arjuna must do and his dharma. To grasp the idea of Krishna as an incarnate can be complicated, but this passage is meant to begin that understanding. In Russel T. Flower's journal article "Krishna and the "Still Points" he references an effective quote to better envision this concept. "Krishna is an incarnation of the divine ground in human form" (Fowler, 409). The divine ground includes everything from the natural occurrences on earth, to the intellects of the human mind and soul.

      Fowler, Russell T. “Krishna and the ‘Still Point’: A Study of the ‘Bhagavad-Gita’s’ Influence in Eliot’s ‘Four Quartets.’” The Sewanee Review, vol. 79, no. 3, 1971, pp. 407–23. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/27542543. Accessed 31 Jan. 2025.

    2. Four sorts of mortals know me: he who weeps, Arjuna! and the man who yearns to know; And he who toils to help; and he who sits Certain of me, enlightened. Of these four, O Prince of India! highest, nearest, best That last is, the devout soul, wise, intent Upon “The One.” Dear, above all, am I To him; and he is dearest unto me!

      Krishna explains how the evil and foolish are unable know him and then explains the four kinds of mortals that do know him. This is a highly important scripture from The Gita. It builds foundation on who the "virtuous ones" are. These are considered the four types of people that come to God (Raman Das, 2023) Of the four, those who weep, those who seek knowledge, those who toil to help, it is the last "Those who sit certain of me, enlightened" that Krishna emphasizes at the end. this enlightened soul is described as devout and wise. It is elaborated on in Hinduism that the wise are dear to God, as they seek nothing in return for their devout path (Raman Das, 2023). Krishna speaks with the most enthusiasm towards the wise because they dethatch from desire, and seek the pleasure of Krishna (Raman Das, 2023).

      Raman Das, Radhika. "Four Types of People Come to Krishna Consciousness" The Vaisnava. 22 November 2023 https://thevaisnava.com/four-types-of-people-come-to-krishna-consciousness/

    3. I am the fresh taste of the water; I The silver of the moon, the gold o’ the sun, The word of worship in the Veds, the thrill That passeth in the ether, and the strength Of man’s shed seed. I am the good sweet smell Of the moistened earth, I am the fire’s red light, The vital air moving in all which moves, The holiness of hallowed souls, the root Undying, whence hath sprung whatever is; The wisdom of the wise, the intellect Of the informed, the greatness of the great. The splendour of the splendid. Kunti’s Son!

      In this section, Krishna is talking about how he encompasses everything in the universe. He is explaining this to Arjuna in a way that he can understand. This is why he uses examples such as the "taste of water". Source: https://www.holybhagavadgita.org/bhagavad-gita-summary-chapter-7/

    4. Shall I deal death on these Even though they seek to slay us? Not one blow, O Madhusudan! will I strike to gain The rule of all Three Worlds; then, how much less To seize an earthly kingdom!

      This moment in the story truly shows one of Arjuna's best character traits. Arjuna calls out "O Madhusudan" (103), this is important because Madhusudan is an epithet for "destroyer of Madhu" which means the death of an inner demon. Arjuna notices that he does not want to fight, and he is advocating as such.

      Tulasi Maharani (2024) "Gita - Peace Formula For The Soul." Quora. https://gitapeaceformula.quora.com/https-www-quora-com-Why-is-Lord-Krishna-called-Madhusudan-answer-Aditi-Pathak-110#:~:text=Lord%20Krishna%20is%20referred%20to,a%20powerful%20demon%20named%20Madhu.

    5. Left of such sacrifice, to Brahma pass, To The Unending. But for him that makes No sacrifice, he hath nor part nor lot Even in the present world. How should he share Another, O thou Glory of thy Line?

      This passage here emphasizes the importance of sacrifice as a means to attain spiritual progress and union with the divine, specifically Brahma, the creator in Hinduism. Those who make a sacrifice and those who don't is the contrast that is being drawn here because if you make a sacrifice and are deemed worthy of a spiritual reward, you will granted that and benefits such as good karma but if you don't, you will be excluded from spiritual benefits/rewards and receive bad karma which can affect your life and spiritual life through the cycle of rebirth.

      The Unending represents the "cycle of birth, life, death, and rebirth" also known as the cycle of samsara. This cycle is where anyone can reincarnate into anybody depending on their karma. If their karma is good then they will be reincarnated into something that was better than their previous life. Having good karma is gained by those who are selfless and do good things in their life such as helping others.

      Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zmgny4j/revision/3

    1. Erotizar la interconexión, no la competencia

      De todos los puntos leídos este me ha llamado mucho más la atención. De hecho lo leo mejor entendiéndolo como interdependencia que interconexión, pero ambos conceptos me sigues pareciendo muy apelativos. Creo que el trabajo de liberación de la creación erótica esconde un desafío contemporáneo que habrá de ser tomado sí o sí.

    1. The editing, debugging and inspecting abilities are not limited to Smalltalk languages either. Glamorous Toolkit itself is based on Rust-based plugins, so naturally we wanted to develop these plugins from the environment, too. In the screenshot below we see an environment opened on the sources of a Rust-based plugin.

      Interesante mirar cómo hacer algo similar o incluso más sencillo con Lua.

    1. “democratic” force

      I am a little unsure o the role of "democratic" in this description. If the author implying that sports has a sort of equalizing force?

    Annotators

    1. Ese vecino simpático y agradable que siempre saluda en el descansillo y de quién sus vecinas aún no pueden creer que hubiese raptado, asesinado o violado a alguien.

      Decía Basilio Martín Patiño en una entrevista hacia el final de su vida que recordaba que cuando los nazis llegaron exiliados a Salamanca tras la guerra mundial las señoras con hijas solteras los colmaban de regalos e invitaciones.

    1. Prerequisites

      Essse são prerequisitos para que a integração funcione bem em sua plenitude, varificar em cada projetos o processo de habilitar as APIs

    1. 1. Face detection involves an image being processed to detect a faceusing cameras with software that collects and processes data about anindividual’s face.2. Face printing occurs when the software extracts facial features andsummarises these features into numbers to make a “face print,” which is asunique as a fingerprint.3. Face matching occurs when the software tries to match two or morefaceprints to determine if they are the face of the same person.

      Define o que é a tecnologia de reconhecimento facial. Na realidade, de deteção, perfilagem e reconhecimento.

    2. 02 Facial recognition in EdTechKey concerns with FRT in educational spaces 0303 3.1 Erosion of Privacy3.2 Lack of data protection safeguards3.3 Surveillance and securitisation3.4 Children’s development3.5 Discrimination: effectiveness and categorisation3.6 Role of private sector

      Praticamente o conteúdo todo - o contrúdo consiste no desenvolvimento (breve) de cada um dos temas.

      Os problemas da introdução de TRF na educação: * Erosion of Privacy * Lack of data protection safeguards * Surveillance and securitisation * Children’s development * Discrimination: effectiveness and categorisation * Role of private sector

      No final ainda há lugar a um "plano" para harmonizar a introdução da tecnologia de reconhecimento facial (TRF) com os direitos humanos.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The authors employed a combinatorial CRISPR-Cas9 knockout screen to uncover synthetically lethal kinase genes that could play a role in drug resistance to kinase inhibitors in triple-negative breast cancer. The study successfully reveals FYN as a mediator of resistance to depletion and inhibition of various tyrosine kinases, notably EGFR, IGF-1R, and ABL, in triple-negative breast cancer cells and xenografts. Mechanistically, they demonstrate that KDM4 contributes to the upregulation of FYN and thereby is an important mediator of drug resistance. All together, these findings suggest FYN and KDM4A as potential targets for combination therapy with kinase inhibitors in triple-negative breast cancer. Moreover, the study may also have important implications for other cancer types and other inhibitors, as the authors suggest that FYN could be a general feature of drug-tolerant persister cells.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors used a large combination matrix of druggable tyrosine kinase gene knockouts, enabling studying of co-dependence of kinase genes. This approach mitigates off-target effects typically associated with kinase inhibitors, enhancing the precision of the findings.

      (2) The authors demonstrate the importance of FYN in drug resistance in multiple ways. They demonstrate synergistic interactions using both knockouts and inhibitors, while also revealing its transcriptional upregulation upon treatment, strengthening the conclusion that FYN plays a role in the resistance.

      (3) The study extends its impact by demonstrating the potent in vivo efficacy of certain combination treatments, underscoring the clinical relevance of the identified strategies.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The methods and figure legends are incomplete, posing a barrier to the reproducibility of the study and hindering a comprehensive understanding and accurate interpretation of the results.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We tried adding as much detail in methods and figures legends as possible to maximize reproducibility and accuracy in interpreting our results as will be described for our responses for the recommendations for authors.

      (2) The authors make use of a large quantity of public data (Fig. 2D/E, Fig. 3F/L/M, Fig 4C, Fig 5B/H/I), whereas it would have strengthened the paper to perform these experiments themselves. While some of this data would be hard to generate (e.g. patient data) other data could have been generated by the authors. The disadvantage of the use of public data is that it merely comprises associations, but does not have causal/functional results (e.g. FYN inhibition in the different cancer models with various drugs). Moreover, by cherry-picking the data from public sources, the context of these sources is not clear to the reader, and thus harder to interpret correctly. For example, it is not directly clear whether the upregulation of FYN in these models is a very selective event or whether it is part of a very large epigenetic re-programming, where other genes may be more critical. While some of the used data are from well-known curated databases, others are from individual papers that the reader should assess critically in order to interpret the data. Sometimes the public data was redundant, as the authors did do the experiments themselves (e.g. lung cancer drug-tolerant persisters), in this case, the public data could also be left out.

      More importantly, the original sources are not properly cited. While the GEO accession numbers are shown in a supplementary table, the articles corresponding to this data should be cited in the main text, and preferably also in the figure legend, to clarify that this data is from public sources, which is now not always the case (e.g. line 224-226). If these original papers do already mention the upregulation of FYN, and the findings from the authors are thus not original, these findings should be discussed in the Discussion section instead of shown in the Results.

      We welcome the reviewer’s concern. As reviewer pointed out, our analysis with FYN expression levels in multiple studies with drug tolerant cells may merely reflect association and not causal relationships. We had at least shown that FYN inhibition may reduce drug tolerance in TNBC and EGFR inhibitor treated lung cancer cells (figures 2H, 5E). The causal role of FYN in emergence of drug tolerance in other cancers treated with different drugs (such as irinotecan treated colon adenocarcinoma and gemcitabine treated pancreatic adenocarcinoma) may be beyond scope of this study. We made a brief discussion addressing this concern in lines 273-275.

      We also added proper citations of the public data used in this study in main text and figure legends in lines 267-269. The GEO accession numbers are listed in supplementary table S2. Importantly, none of the referenced studies identified FYN as key factor in generating drug tolerant cells.

      (3) The claim in the abstract (and discussion) that the study "highlights FYN as broadly applicable mediator of therapy resistance and persistence", is not sufficiently supported by the results. The current study only shows functional evidence for this for an EGFR, IGF1R, and Abl inhibitor in TNBC cells. Further, it demonstrates (to a limited extent) the role of FYN in gefitinib and osimertinib resistance (also EGFR inhibitors) in lung cancer cells. Thus, the causal evidence provided is only limited to a select subset of tyrosine kinase inhibitors in two cancer types. While the authors show associations between FYN and drug resistance in other cancer types and after other treatments, these associations are not solid evidence for a causal connection as mentioned in this statement. Epigenetic reprogramming causing drug resistance can be accompanied by altered gene expression of many genes, and the upregulation of FYN may be a consequence, but not a cause of the drug resistance. Therefore, the authors should be more cautious in making such statements about the broad applicability of FYN as a mediator of therapy resistance.

      We fully agree with the reviewer’s concern that FYN upregulation is simply an association, and may not be the cause of drug tolerance and resistance. Therefore, to accurately convey our findings, we edited our manuscript in lines 34-36 in abstract to “FYN expression is associated with therapy resistance and persistence by demonstrating its upregulation in various experimental models of drug-tolerant persisters and residual disease following targeted therapy, chemotherapy, and radiotherapy” and lines 288-290 in discussion to “ Upregulation of FYN is a general feature of drug tolerant cancer cells, suggesting the association of FYN expression with drug resistance and tumor recurrence after treatment.” We hope this satisfies the reviewer.

      (4) The rationale for picking and validating FYN as the main candidate gene over other genes such as FGFR2, FRK2, and TEK is not clear.

      a. While gene pairs containing FGFR2 knockouts seemed to be equally effective as FYN gene pairs in the primary screening, these could not be validated in the validation experiment. It is unclear whether multiple individual or a pool of gRNAs were used for this validation, or whether only 1 gRNA sequence was picked per gene for this validation. If only 1 gRNA per gene was used, this likely would have resulted in variable knockout efficiencies. Moreover, the T7 endonuclease assay may not have been the best method to check knockout efficiency, as it only implies endonuclease activity around a gene (but not to the extent of indels that can cause frameshifts, such as by TIDE analysis, or extent of reduction in protein levels by western blot).

      b. Moreover, FRK2 and TEK, also demonstrated many synergistic gene pairs in the primary screen. However, many of these gene pairs were not included in the validation screening. The selection criteria of candidate gene pairs for validation screening is not clear. Still, TEK-ABL2 was also validated as a strong hit in the validation screen. The authors should better explain the choice of FYN over other hits, and/or mention that TEK and FRK2 may also be important targets for combination treatment that can be further elucidated.

      We thank the reviewer for improving our manuscript. We had concerns with the generalizability of FGFR2, FRK and TEK in TNBC as their expressions are very low in MDA-MB-231, nor were they enriched in TNBC compared to cancer cell lines of other subtypes. We added a brief comment on this concern in results section and discussion section (lines 150-154, figure S3). Although we acknowledge that the validations done in figure 2B is a result of only one guide RNA, with validations with pharmacological inhibition of FYN (figure 2F-I), we hope the reader and reviewer can be convinced with our key findings in synthetic lethality between FYN and other tyrosine kinases.

      (5) On several occasions, the right controls (individual treatments, performed in parallel) are not included in the figures. The authors should include the responses to each of the single treatments, and/or better explain the normalization that might explain why the controls are not shown.

      a. Figure 2G: The effect of PP2 treatment, without combined treatment, is not shown.

      b. Figure 2H/3G: The effect of the knockouts on growth alone, compared to sgGFP, is not demonstrated. It is unclear whether the viability of knockouts is normalized to sgGFP, or to each untreated knockout.

      c. Figure 2L: The effect of SB203580 as a single treatment is not shown.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. The data shown for all figures listed in these concerns were normalized by the changes in viability by pharmacological or genetic perturbations that synergized with TKIs (NVP-ADW742, gefitinib…etc.) used in the figures in the original manuscript. As reviewer had suggested, we newly added the effect of SB203580 and PP2 treatment on cell viability in supplementary figures S4A, S4K. SB203580 had no significant effect on cell viability, while PP2 treatment caused significant decrease in cell viability, which is expected as PP2 can inhibit activity of multiple Src family kinases. Regardless of the effect of SB203580 and PP2 on cell viability as single agent, it is evident that treatment of TKIs synergistically decreased cell viability in cancer cell lines. The change in viability by FYN or histone lysine demethylase knockout was also provided in newly added figure S4D and S6C. Notably, genetic ablation of FYN or histone lysine demethylases had modest, if any, influences on cell viability.

      (6) The study examines the effects at a single, relatively late time point after treatment with inhibitors, without confirming the sequential impact on KDM4A and FYN. The proposed sequence of transcriptional upregulation of KDM4A followed by epigenetic modifications leading to FYN upregulation would be more compellingly supported by demonstrating a consecutive, rather than simultaneous, occurrence of these events. Furthermore, the protein level assessment at 48 hours (for RNA levels not clearly described), raises concerns about potential confounding factors. At this late time point, reduced cell viability due to the combination treatment could contribute to observed effects such as altered FYN expression and P38 MAPK phosphorylation, making it challenging to attribute these changes solely to the specific and selective reduction of FYN expression by KDM4A.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We performed time course experiment for NVP-ADW742 treatment on MDA-MB-231 cells in our newly added figure 3E. Surprisingly, treatment of NVP-ADW742 increased KDM4A protein level within two hours. FYN protein accumulation followed KDM4A accumulation after 24 hours. This observation, with our chromatin immunoprecipitation data in figure 3O, provide evidence that FYN accumulation is a consequence of KDM4A accumulation and H3K9me3 demethylation upon TKI treatment. We newly discussed this data in results and discussion section in lines 214-216.

      (7) The cut-off for considering interactions "synergistic" is quite low. The manual of the used "SynergyFinder" tool itself recommends values above >10 as synergistic and between -10 and 10 as additive ( https://synergyfinder.fimm.fi/synergy/synfin_docs/). Here, values between 5-10 are also considered synergistic. Caution should be taken when discussing those results. Showing the actual dose response (including responses to each single treatment) may be required to enable the reader to critically assess the synergy, along with its standard deviation.

      We thank the reviewer for careful comments. We reanalyzed our data with SynergyFinder plus tool (Zheng, Genomics, Proteomics, and Bioinformatics 2022), which implements mathematical models distinct from SynergyFinder 3, for more faithful implementation of Bliss, Loewe independence models, and more critically, calculates statistical significance of the synergy. We provide updates synergy plots with statistics in figures 2F, 3J, and S4B. All drug combinations show statistically significant synergy (p<0.01). We also add raw data used to calculate synergy in figures 2F, 3J and S4B in supplementary dataset S2.

      (8) As the effect size on Western blots is quite limited and sometimes accompanied by differences in loading control, these data should be further supported by quantifications of signal intensities of at least 3 biological replicates (e.g. especially Figure 3A/5A). The figure legends should also state how many independent experiments the blots are representative of.

      We added quantifications for figure 3A and 5A for better depiction of our results. Figure legends were edited to indicate this is a representative of three independent experiments.

      (9) While the article provides mechanistic insights into the likely upregulation of FYN by KDM4A, this constitutes only a fragment of the broader mechanism underlying drug resistance associated with FYN. The study falls short in investigating the causes of KDM4A upregulation and fails to explore the downstream effects (except for p38 MAPK phosphorylation, which may not be complete) of FYN upregulation that could potentially drive sustained cell proliferation and survival. These omissions limit the comprehensive understanding of the complete molecular pathway, and the discussion section does not address potential implications or pathways beyond the identified KDM4A-FYN axis. A more thorough exploration of these aspects would enhance the study's contribution to the field.

      We welcome the reviewer’s careful concern. We agree our delineation of mechanisms underlying TKI resistance in TNBC involving KDM4 and FYN is far from complete. The increases in expression of histone demethylases were observed in cancers treated with different drugs. The mechanisms governing the increase in histone demethylase expression is not known and is beyond the scope of this paper. We newly added this in discussion section in lines 299-304.

      (10) FYN has been implied in drug resistance previously, and other mechanisms of its upregulation, as well as downstream consequences, have been described previously. These were not evaluated in this paper, and are also not discussed in the discussion section. Moreover, the authors did not investigate whether any of the many other mechanisms of drug resistance to EGFR, IGF1R, and Abl inhibitors that have been described, could be related to FYN as well. A more comprehensive examination of existing literature and consideration of alternative or parallel mechanisms in the discussion would enhance the paper's contribution to understanding FYN's involvement in drug resistance.

      FYN has been implicated in TKI resistance in CML cell lines (Irwin, Oncotarget, 2015). In this study, FYN is similarly transcriptionally upregulated in imatinib resistant CML, and this upregulation is dependent on EGR1 transcription factor. To address this concern, we generated EGR1 KO MDA-MB-231 cells and tested whether these cells retain the ability to accumulate FYN. Consistent with the previous study, imatinib treatment increased EGR1 protein level. However, EGR1 knockout did not influence FYN accumulation in MDA-MB-231 cells. EGR1 mediated accumulation of FYN may be context specific phenomenon to CML (Figure S5B). We newly discussed this result in result sections in lines 187-190. We also acknowledge that SRC family kinases are generally involved in drug resistance in many cancers. We discuss the recent findings regarding SRC family kinases in drug resistance in result section in lines 145-147 and discussion sections in lines 315-317.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Kim et al. conducted a study in which they selected 76 tyrosine kinases and performed CRISPR/Cas9 combinatorial screening to target 3003 genes in Triple-negative breast cancer (TNBC) cells. Their investigation revealed a significant correlation between the FYN gene and the proliferation and death of breast cancer cells. The authors demonstrated that depleting FYN and using FYN inhibitors, in combination with TKIs, synergistically suppressed the growth of breast cancer tumor cells. They observed that TKIs upregulate the levels of FYN and the histone demethylase family, particularly KDM4, promoting FYN expression. The authors further showed that KDM4 weakens the H3K9me3 mark in the FYN enhancer region, and the inhibitor QC6352 effectively inhibits this process, leading to a synergistic induction of apoptosis in breast cancer cells along with TKIs. Additionally, the authors discovered that FYN is upregulated in various drug-resistant cancer cells, and inhibitors targeting FYN, such as PP2, sensitize drug-resistant cells to EGFR inhibitors.

      Strengths:

      This study provides new insights into the roles and mechanisms of FYN and KDM4 in tumor cell resistance.

      Weaknesses:

      It is important to note that previous studies have also implicated FYN as a potential key factor in drug resistance of tumor cells, including breast cancer cells. While the current study is comprehensive and provides a rich dataset, certain experiments could be refined, and the logical structure could be more rigorous. For instance, the rationale behind selecting FYN, KDM4, and KDM4A as the focus of the study could be more thoroughly justified.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) The methods and figure legends are incomplete, posing a barrier to the reproducibility of the study and hindering a comprehensive understanding and accurate interpretation of the results. A critical revision of these aspects is needed, for example:

      a. Catalogue numbers of certain products critical to reproduce the study (e.g. antibodies) and/or at what company they have been purchased (e.g. used compounds)

      b. On several occasions the used concentrations of drugs or exposure time are not mentioned (e.g. Figure 2H, G (PP2), I, J, K, L, etc.)

      c. Figure legend of figure panels E-I in Figure 5 seems to be completely incorrect and not consistent with the figure axis etc.

      d. RT-qPCR methodology is not described in Methods.

      e. Western blot methods are very limited: these should be described in more detail or cite an article that does.

      f. Organoid culture: Information about the source of tumour cells (e.g. pre-treatment biopsy, material after surgery), isolation of tumor cells (e.g. methodology, characterization of material) and culture conditions (e.g. culture time before the experiment) is lacking.

      g. Information about how gefitinib/osimertinib-resistant PC9 and HCC827 cells are generated (as well as culture conditions and where they are from) is missing.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing these out. We have done our best to add experimental details for reproducibility in methods section and figure legends in lines 343-348, 408-426, 431-432, 439-453, 648-650, 671-672 and 691-693.

      (2) Figure 1B/C/D: it would be more meaningful if the most important hits (at least in one of these panels) were highlighted (e.g. line with gene-pair named), or visualized separately, so that the reader does not have to read the supplementary table to know what the most important hits were.

      We thank the reviewer for careful concern. We newly added labels for key synergistic gene pairs in figures 1D as reviewer suggested.

      (3) qPCR data shown in Figure S4 is from 1 independent experiment. As these experiments (especially qPCR) can be rather variable and the effect size is not very large, I would highly recommend repeating these experiments, or excluding them, as conclusions from them are not solid.

      We found performing qPCR with many drugs that did not cause substantial synergistic cell death with NVP-ADW742 in figure S5C (figure S4A in previous version of manuscript) will not provide much additional insights. Also, as we were more interested in finding direct regulators of FYN expression, we focused on drugs that inhibit epigenetic regulator that activate transcription. Therefore, we focused on performing FYN qPCR with drug combinations involving GSK-J4 (KDM6 inhibitor) and pinometostat(DOT1L inhibitor). As shown in our newly added figure in S5D, while GSK-J4 inhibited FYN expression, pinometostat failed to do so. Also, we also confirm that knockout of KDM5 or KDM6 reproducibly failed to decrease FYN expression upon TKI treatment (figure S5E and S5G). The new results are discussed in lines 193-198. We hope these additions satisfy the reviewer.

      (4) For validation of synergistic knockouts, it would be helpful for the interpretation to also show the viability/growth of each knockout (or treatment), instead of mostly normalized scores. For example, the reader now has no insight into whether FYN knockout itself already affects cell viability, or not. If it (or EGFR/IGF1R/ABL knockout) would already substantially affect cell viability, a further reduction in cell viability may not be as relevant as when it would not affect cell viability at all.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We replaced our figure in figure 2A to indicate raw changes in cell viability in each single and double knockout cells in figure S2A. We hope this satisfies the reviewer.

      (5) The curve fitting as in Figure 2G is somewhat misleading. While the curve seems to be forced to go from 1-0, the +PP2 dose-response curve does actually not seem to start at 1, but rather at 0.8, likely resulting from the effect of PP2 as a single treatment, thus, effects may be interpreted as more synergistic than that they truly are.

      The results shown in figure 2G is actually normalized to cells treated or not with PP2 to better reflect the effect of NVP-ADW742, gefitinib and imatinib in the presence of PP2. So viability value starting at 0.8 is not because of the effect of PP2 treatment as single agent (because it is normalized to PP2 treated cells), but is actually because very small dose of particularly NVP-ADW742 resulted in modest decrease in viability. To more accurately depict our findings, we added the data point in figure 2G with TKI dose of 0uM at viability 1. We also added details for normalization of viability in figure legends.

      (6) The readability of the paper could be enhanced by higher-quality images (now the text is quite pixelated).

      We had technical difficulties in converting file types. We have replaced figures for better resolution for all main and supplementary figures.

      (7) The discussion now contains one paragraph about the selectivity of kinase inhibitors, and that repurposing of inhibitors with more relaxed specificity or multi-kinase inhibitors can be beneficial. This does not seem to fall within the scope of the study, as there was no comparison between selective and non-selective inhibitors. It was also not clearly mentioned that the non-selective inhibitors worked better than the gene knockouts, or that for example, KDM3 and KDM4 knockout together worked better than only KDM4 knockout. It is recommended to either remove this paragraph, or rephrase it so that it better fits the actual results

      We agree with the reviewer. We chose to remove this paragraph in lines 308-313.

      (8) The entire paper does not discuss any known functions of FYN. Its function could be very briefly introduced in the results section when highlighting it as an important hit. More importantly, its known role in cancer and especially drug resistance should be discussed in the discussion (see also Public review).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We added brief description of the role of FYN in cancer malignancy and drug resistance in lines 145-147. Particularly, FYN accumulation by EGR1 transcription factor had been described in the context of imatinib resistant chronic myeloid leukemia (Irwin, Oncotarget, 2015). To address this, we tested whether EGR1 knockout decreases FYN level in MDA-MB-231 (Figure S5A). Notably EGR1 knockout failed to decrease FYN protein level. This result was discussed in lines 187-190.

      (9) Textual changes including:

      a. Line 29 (and others) "Massively parallel combinatorial CRISPR screens": I would rather choose a more descriptive term, such as "combinatorial tyrosine kinase knockout CRISPR screen", which already clarifies the screen used knockouts of (druggable) tyrosine kinases only. Using both "Parallel" and "combinatorial" is somewhat redundant, and "massively" is subjective, in my opinion.

      Manuscript edited as suggested (lines 29, 63, 86, 283). The term “massively parallel” have been removed as they don’t significantly change our scientific findings.

      b. Line 67 (and others): "to identify ... for elimination of TNBC": while this may be its potential implication, this study has identified genes in (mostly) TNBC cell lines and cell line xenografts. Please rephrase to something more within the scope of this research.

      Manuscript edited as suggested (lines 68-69) as “we utilize CombiGEM-CRISPR technology to identify tyrosine kinase inhibitor combinations with synergistic effect in TNBC cell line and xenograft models for potential combinatorial therapy against TNBC.” We hope it satisfies the reviewer.

      c. Line 31 (and others): Please check the capitals of words describing inhibitors, and make them consistent (e.g. Imatinib written with capital I, other inhibitors without capitals).

      We thank the reviewer for catching this error. We changed all “imatinib” and “osimertinib” to lowercase.

      d. Line 71: "... combining PP2, saracatinib (FYN inhibitor), .." ..." Here it is not clear PP2 is a FYN inhibitor, and, as saracatinib is a well-known Src-inhibitor, it is not correct to just say "FYN inhibitor". Better to rephrase to something such as:  "combining PP2 (Lck/Fyn inhibitor), saracatinib (Src/FYN inhibitor).

      As reviewer noted, most Src family kinase inhibitors are not selective against specific member among other Src family members. Therefore, we changed line 73 to “PP2, saracatinib (Src family kinase / FYN inhibitor).”

      e. Line 81: "The resulting library enabled massively parallel screens of pairwise knockouts, .." To clarify this is for the selected kinases only: "The resulting library enabled screens of pairwise knockouts of the 76 tyrosine kinase genes, .."

      Manuscript edited as suggested by the reviewer in line 86.

      f. Line 88 (and others): "after infection" consider rephrasing to "after transduction" as this is more commonly used when using lentiviral vectors only.

      We thank the reviewer for this. Every “infection” that designates lentiviral transduction were changed to “transduction”.

      g. Line 97-99: While being described as "good" correlation, a correlation of the same sgRNA pair, yet in a different order, of r=0.5 does not seem to be very good, neither does a correlation of r=0.74 for biological replicates. Please consider describing in a less subjective way.

      We removed the subjective terms and changed the manuscript as follows: “sgRNA pair (e.g., sgRNA-A + sgRNA-B and sgRNA-B + sgRNA-A) were positively correlated (r = 0.50) and were combined when calculating Z (Fig. S1D). The Z scores for three biological replicates were also correlated with r = 0.74 between replicates #2 and #3 (Fig. S1E).” in lines 97-101.

      h. Lines 92-96 and lines 102-115: The results section here contains quite a lot of technical information. While some information may be directly needed to understand the described results (such as a very short and simple explanation of how to interpret gene interaction score), other information may be more appropriate for the Methods section, to enhance the readability of the paper. Consider simplifying here and giving a more detailed overview in the Methods section. Also, the text is not entirely clear. You seem to give two separate explanations of how the GI scores were calculated (Starting in lines 106 and 111): please rephrase and clearly indicate the connections between those two explanations (in the Methods section).

      We thank the reviewer for valuable suggestion. We moved significant portions of the technical descriptions in methods section. We also clarified the text regarding the procedures for calculating GI scores in lines 385-387.

      i. Line 142: "These findings suggest that gene A could represent an attractive drug target.." "Gene A" should be "FYN"?

      We thank the reviewer for catching this. Indeed, it is “FYN” and we changed it in line 154.

      j. Line 149: Introduce Saracatinib, and make the reader aware that it actually mostly targets Src, and FYN with lower affinity.

      We newly added text in lines 73 and 164 to indicate that saracatinib is an inhibitor against Src family kinases.

      k. Line 469: "by the two sgRNA." "by the two sgRNAs".

      Corrected

      l. Throughout text/figures/figure legends, please check for consistency in the naming of cell lines, compounds, referring to figures etc. (E.g. MDA-MB-231/MDA MB 231/MDAMB-231 ; Fig. 1/Figure 1).

      Corrected. Thank you for catching this error.

      m. In Methods, frequently ug or uL are used instead of µg or µL

      Corrected.

      n. Legend Figure 5: Clarify what A, G, I, D, and P mean.

      Corrected in line 685-686 to: “A: NVP-ADW742, G: gefitinib, I: imatinib, D: doxorubicin, P: Paclitaxel.”

      o. Line 303: What is meant by: "The six variable nucleotides were added in reverse primer for multiplexing". Could you clarify this in the text?

      We apologize for confusion the six nucleotides is index sequence for multiplexed run in NGS. The text in lines 373-374 is edited to: “The six nucleotides described as “NNNNNN” in reverse primer above represents unique index to identify biological replicates in multiplexed NGS run.”

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      To enhance the robustness of the conclusions drawn from this study, certain concerns merit attention.

      Concerns:

      (1) Line 130 indicates that eight synergistic target gene combinations were validated. It would be helpful to clarify the criteria used to select these gene pairs and provide the rationale for studying these specific combinations of genes.

      In fact, we had selected the gene pairs that we had the sgRNAs against available when we performed the experiments, so we did not have very good reason to explain our selections. Instead we added a brief discussion in lines 304-306 that further validations are required for the gene pairs not experimentally tested.

      (2) According to Figure 2C, FYN was identified as crucial among the 30 gene pairs, and its upregulation in TNBC prompted further investigation. It would be informative to discuss the expression levels of TEK, FRK, and FGFR2 in TNBC and explain why these nodes were not studied. Is there existing evidence demonstrating the superiority of FYN over these other genes?

      The similar concern was raised by reviewer #1. The expression levels of TEK, FRK and FGFR2 were relatively low in MDA-MB-231 and TNBCs in general, and we were concerned about the generalizability of these targets for treating TNBC. While the validation of these genes for possible synthetic lethality may lead to valuable insight, this may be beyond scope of this paper. This concern is newly discussed in result and discussion sections in lines 150-154.

      (3) The screening process employed only one cell line, and validation was conducted with only one cell line (Figure 2A). Consider supplementing the findings with more convincing evidence from other breast cancer cell lines to strengthen the conclusions.

      Although the CRISPR screens and primary validations were done with only one cell line, further validations with drug combinations were done in independent cancer cell lines such as Hs578T (figures S4E-J). Also, the possible association of FYN expression in drug tolerant cells were also demonstrated in lung cancer cells. We hope this satisfies the reviewer.

      (4) The network analysis in Figure 2C lacks a description of the methodology used. It would be beneficial to provide a brief explanation of the methods employed for this analysis.

      The network analysis was done manually with the size of each node proportional to the number of gene pairs. We newly added text in figure legend in line 638 to clarify this.

      (5) The significance of gene A mentioned in line 142 is unclear. Please provide a clear explanation or context for the importance of this gene.

      This is a mistake that were also pointed out by reviewer #1. The “gene A” should have been “FYN”. We corrected this in line 154.

      6. In Figure 2J and Figure 2K, it would be more informative to measure the phosphorylation levels of FYN and SRC rather than just their baseline levels. Consider revising the figures accordingly.

      We thank the reviewer for a careful comment. We newly provide supplementary figure S5A to show that phosphorylation level of FYN is increased, but this increase was proportional to the increase in FYN protein level, so the ratio of pFYN/FYN did not change significantly. We discussed this result in lines 187-190.

      (7) Figure S4B lacks biological replicates, which could impact the reliability of the experimental results. Consider adding biological replicates to enhance the robustness of the findings.

      This was also pointed out by reviewer #1. Instead of performing qPCR for all drugs, we focused on validating the decrease in FYN mRNA level for drug combinations that synergistically kill cancer cells. We were also aiming to identify direct mediator of FYN mRNA upregulation, so we focused on drug combination that involves inhibitor of epigenetic regulator that promotes transcription. To this end, we tested the impact of GSK-J4(KDM6 inhibitor) and pinometostat (DOT1L inhibitor) in combination with TKI in regulating FYN expression level. Notably, while GSK-J4 attenuated FYN mRNA accumulation by NVP-ADW742 treatment, pinometostat failed to do so (figure S5C). We newly described these results in lines 192-197 in results section.

      (8) Line 186 indicates that KDM3 knockout was not tested in Figure S5A. It would be helpful to provide an explanation for this omission or consider including the data if available.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. The T7 endonuclease assay results for KDM3, KDM4 and PHF8 are added in figure S6B. All guide RNAs used in the study efficiently generated indel mutations.

      (9) In line 206, KDM4A is introduced, but Figures 3J and 3M had already pointed to KDM4A. The authors did not analyze the ChIP results for other members of the KDM4 family at this point. Please address this inconsistency and provide a rationale for focusing on KDM4A. Additionally, in Figure 3M, consider adding peak labeling to the enriched portion for clarity.

      We welcome the reviewer’s careful concern. KDM4 family enzymes perform catalytically identical reactions, and are thought to be redundant. Therefore, we judged that the most abundantly expression genes among KDM4 family should be the primary target to focus on. To this end, we analyzed the expression levels of KDM4 family genes in supplementary figure S6A. Indeed KDM4A expression was the highest among other KDM4 family genes. We discussed this in results section in lines 218-220.

      (10) The author only indicated the relationship between the H3K9me3 level in the enhancer region and FYN expression. It would be valuable to verify the activity of the enhancers and investigate additional markers such as H3K27ac and H3K4me1. Consider discussing these aspects to provide a more comprehensive understanding.

      Since we and others had shown that histone dementhylases are increased upon drug treatment, we focused on histone methylation marks which are associated with gene repression and whose removal by demethylases are associated with drug resistance. To this end, KDM6 demethylases removing H3K27me3 may serve as attractive alternative. In our newly added supplementary figure S6E, ADW742 treatment did not decrease H3K27me3 level in FYN promoter, indicating that H3K9me3 may be the dominant epigenetic change that modulates FYN expression upon drug treatment. This was briefly discussed in lines 233-235.

      (11) In Figure 4A, the addition of the drug alone does not inhibit tumor growth. Please provide an explanation for this result and consider discussing potential reasons for the observed lack of inhibition.

      The drug dose was adjusted carefully to minimize tumor shrinkage by single drug so that synergistic tumor shrinkage can be clearer.

      (12) Line 208 indicates missing parentheses in the text describing Figure 4C. Please correct the text accordingly to ensure clarity.

      Corrected. Thank you for catching this error.

      (13) The figure legends for Figures 5E, F, G, and H contain errors. Please correct the figure legends to accurately describe the respective figures.

      We thank the reviewer for catching this error. We have changed the figure legends in lines 691-697 to accurately describe the figures.

      (14) It may be beneficial for the authors to divide the results section into several subsections and add headings to improve the overall understanding of the findings.

      This is an excellent suggestion. We divided our results section into subsections and added headings in lines 80, 141, 181, 237 and 251 to help readers understand our findings.

      (15) The authors should include the sgRNA sequences used for gene targeting, along with details of the target genes and negative/positive controls, in the Supplementary Materials to enhance reproducibility and transparency.

      This is a critical point for improving reproducibility of our work. The sgRNA sequences used in the study are newly added in supplementary table S3.

      (16) The resolution of the figures in the Supplementary Materials is too low, which may impede the authors' ability to interpret the data. Consider providing higher-resolution figures for better readability.

      We had similar concern posed by reviewer #1, we provided higher resolution image for all main and supplementary figures.

    1. 2.10 Operating-System Debugging

      This section explores operating-system debugging, covering failure analysis, performance monitoring, and advanced tracing tools. Debugging involves identifying and fixing errors in software and hardware, with performance tuning aiming to eliminate processing bottlenecks. When a process fails, operating systems log errors and may generate core dumps for analysis, while kernel failures result in crash dumps. Debugging kernel issues is complex due to hardware control and limited debugging tools. Performance monitoring relies on counters and tracing methods. Linux provides tools like ps, top, vmstat, and /proc for tracking resource usage, while Windows uses Task Manager. Tracing tools, such as strace, gdb, and tcpdump, capture event-based data for in-depth analysis. The BCC toolkit, built on eBPF, enables secure and low-impact debugging of live systems by tracing interactions between user and kernel code. BCC tools, such as disksnoop for disk I/O and opensnoop for system calls, provide real-time insights into system performance and security without disrupting critical applications.

    2. 2.7 Operating-System Design and Implementation In this section, we discuss problems we face in designing and implementing an operating system. There are, of course, no complete solutions to such problems, but there are approaches that have proved successful. 2.7.1 Design Goals The first problem in designing a system is to define goals and specifications. At the highest level, the design of the system will be affected by the choice of hardware and the type of system: traditional desktop/laptop, mobile, distributed, or real time. Beyond this highest design level, the requirements may be much harder to specify. The requirements can, however, be divided into two basic groups: user goals and system goals. Users want certain obvious properties in a system. The system should be convenient to use, easy to learn and to use, reliable, safe, and fast. Of course, these specifications are not particularly useful in the system design, since there is no general agreement on how to achieve them. A similar set of requirements can be defined by the developers who must design, create, maintain, and operate the system. The system should be easy to design, implement, and maintain; and it should be flexible, reliable, error free, and efficient. Again, these requirements are vague and may be interpreted in various ways. There is, in short, no unique solution to the problem of defining the requirements for an operating system. The wide range of systems in existence shows that different requirements can result in a large variety of solutions for different environments. For example, the requirements for Wind River VxWorks, a real-time operating system for embedded systems, must have been substantially different from those for Windows Server, a large multiaccess operating system designed for enterprise applications. Specifying and designing an operating system is a highly creative task. Although no textbook can tell you how to do it, general principles have been developed in the field of software engineering, and we turn now to a discussion of some of these principles. 2.7.2 Mechanisms and Policies One important principle is the separation of policy from mechanism. Mechanisms determine how to do something; policies determine what will be done. For example, the timer construct (see Section 1.4.3) is a mechanism for ensuring CPU protection, but deciding how long the timer is to be set for a particular user is a policy decision. The separation of policy and mechanism is important for flexibility. Policies are likely to change across places or over time. In the worst case, each change in policy would require a change in the underlying mechanism. A general mechanism flexible enough to work across a range of policies is preferable. A change in policy would then require redefinition of only certain parameters of the system. For instance, consider a mechanism for giving priority to certain types of programs over others. If the mechanism is properly separated from policy, it can be used either to support a policy decision that I/O-intensive programs should have priority over CPU-intensive ones or to support the opposite policy. Microkernel-based operating systems (discussed in Section 2.8.3) take the separation of mechanism and policy to one extreme by implementing a basic set of primitive building blocks. These blocks are almost policy free, allowing more advanced mechanisms and policies to be added via user-created kernel modules or user programs themselves. In contrast, consider Windows, an enormously popular commercial operating system available for over three decades. Microsoft has closely encoded both mechanism and policy into the system to enforce a global look and feel across all devices that run the Windows operating system. All applications have similar interfaces, because the interface itself is built into the kernel and system libraries. Apple has adopted a similar strategy with its macOS and iOS operating systems. We can make a similar comparison between commercial and open-source operating systems. For instance, contrast Windows, discussed above, with Linux, an open-source operating system that runs on a wide range of computing devices and has been available for over 25 years. The “standard” Linux kernel has a specific CPU scheduling algorithm (covered in Section 5.7.1), which is a mechanism that supports a certain policy. However, anyone is free to modify or replace the scheduler to support a different policy. Policy decisions are important for all resource allocation. Whenever it is necessary to decide whether or not to allocate a resource, a policy decision must be made. Whenever the question is how rather than what, it is a mechanism that must be determined. 2.7.3 Implementation Once an operating system is designed, it must be implemented. Because operating systems are collections of many programs, written by many people over a long period of time, it is difficult to make general statements about how they are implemented. Early operating systems were written in assembly language. Now, most are written in higher-level languages such as C or C++, with small amounts of the system written in assembly language. In fact, more than one higher-level language is often used. The lowest levels of the kernel might be written in assembly language and C. Higher-level routines might be written in C and C++, and system libraries might be written in C++ or even higher-level languages. Android provides a nice example: its kernel is written mostly in C with some assembly language. Most Android system libraries are written in C or C++, and its application frameworks—which provide the developer interface to the system—are written mostly in Java. We cover Android's architecture in more detail in Section 2.8.5.2. The advantages of using a higher-level language, or at least a systems-implementation language, for implementing operating systems are the same as those gained when the language is used for application programs: the code can be written faster, is more compact, and is easier to understand and debug. In addition, improvements in compiler technology will improve the generated code for the entire operating system by simple recompilation. Finally, an operating system is far easier to port to other hardware if it is written in a higher-level language. This is particularly important for operating systems that are intended to run on several different hardware systems, such as small embedded devices, Intel x86 systems, and ARM chips running on phones and tablets. The only possible disadvantages of implementing an operating system in a higher-level language are reduced speed and increased storage requirements. This, however, is not a major issue in today's systems. Although an expert assembly-language programmer can produce efficient small routines, for large programs a modern compiler can perform complex analysis and apply sophisticated optimizations that produce excellent code. Modern processors have deep pipelining and multiple functional units that can handle the details of complex dependencies much more easily than can the human mind. As is true in other systems, major performance improvements in operating systems are more likely to be the result of better data structures and algorithms than of excellent assembly-language code. In addition, although operating systems are large, only a small amount of the code is critical to high performance; the interrupt handlers, I/O manager, memory manager, and CPU scheduler are probably the most critical routines. After the system is written and is working correctly, bottlenecks can be identified and can be refactored to operate more efficiently.

      Operating system design and implementation involve defining clear goals and balancing user and system requirements. User goals focus on convenience, reliability, and speed, while system goals emphasize ease of design, flexibility, and efficiency. A key principle is separating mechanisms (how to do something) from policies (what to do), enabling flexibility and adaptability. For example, microkernel systems use minimal, policy-free mechanisms, allowing customization, while systems like Windows integrate both for consistency. Modern operating systems are typically written in higher-level languages like C or C++, with some assembly for critical parts, improving portability, maintainability, and performance. Compiler optimizations and efficient algorithms often outweigh the benefits of assembly language, making higher-level languages preferable for most OS development.

    3. 2.5 Linkers and Loaders Usually, a program resides on disk as a binary executable file—for example, a.out or prog.exe. To run on a CPU, the program must be brought into memory and placed in the context of a process. In this section, we describe the steps in this procedure, from compiling a program to placing it in memory, where it becomes eligible to run on an available CPU core. The steps are highlighted in Figure 2.11. Figure 2.11 The role of the linker and loader. Source files are compiled into object files that are designed to be loaded into any physical memory location, a format known as an relocatable object file. Next, the linker combines these relocatable object files into a single binary executable file. During the linking phase, other object files or libraries may be included as well, such as the standard C or math library (specified with the flag -lm). A loader is used to load the binary executable file into memory, where it is eligible to run on a CPU core. An activity associated with linking and loading is relocation, which assigns final addresses to the program parts and adjusts code and data in the program to match those addresses so that, for example, the code can call library functions and access its variables as it executes. In Figure 2.11, we see that to run the loader, all that is necessary is to enter the name of the executable file on the command line. When a program name is entered on the command line on UNIX systems—for example, ./main—the shell first creates a new process to run the program using the fork() system call. The shell then invokes the loader with the exec() system call, passing exec() the name of the executable file. The loader then loads the specified program into memory using the address space of the newly created process. (When a GUI interface is used, double-clicking on the icon associated with the executable file invokes the loader using a similar mechanism.) The process described thus far assumes that all libraries are linked into the executable file and loaded into memory. In reality, most systems allow a program to dynamically link libraries as the program is loaded. Windows, for instance, supports dynamically linked libraries (DLLs). The benefit of this approach is that it avoids linking and loading libraries that may end up not being used into an executable file. Instead, the library is conditionally linked and is loaded if it is required during program run time. For example, in Figure 2.11, the math library is not linked into the executable file main. Rather, the linker inserts relocation information that allows it to be dynamically linked and loaded as the program is loaded. We shall see in Chapter 9 that it is possible for multiple processes to share dynamically linked libraries, resulting in a significant savings in memory use. Object files and executable files typically have standard formats that include the compiled machine code and a symbol table containing metadata about functions and variables that are referenced in the program. For UNIX and Linux systems, this standard format is known as ELF (for Executable and Linkable Format). There are separate ELF formats for relocatable and executable files. One piece of information in the ELF file for executable files is the program's entry point, which contains the address of the first instruction to be executed when the program runs. Windows systems use the Portable Executable (PE) format, and macOS uses the Mach-O format. ELF FORMAT Linux provides various commands to identify and evaluate ELF files. For example, the file command determines a file type. If main.o is an object file, and main is an executable file, the command file main.o will report that main.o is an ELF relocatable file, while the command file main will report that main is an ELF executable. ELF files are divided into a number of sections and can be evaluated using the readelf command.

      Linkers and loaders play a crucial role in transforming a program from a disk-based binary executable (e.g., a.out or prog.exe) into a memory-resident process ready for CPU execution. Source files are compiled into relocatable object files, which the linker combines into a single executable, incorporating libraries like the standard C library. The loader then loads this executable into memory, adjusting addresses through relocation to enable proper function calls and variable access. On UNIX systems, the shell uses fork() and exec() system calls to create a process and invoke the loader. Dynamic linking, as seen with Windows DLLs, allows libraries to be linked and loaded only when needed, saving memory. Executable files follow standard formats like ELF (Linux), PE (Windows), or Mach-O (macOS), containing machine code, symbol tables, and entry points. Tools like the file and readelf commands help analyze ELF files, distinguishing between relocatable and executable formats.

    4. 2.1 Operating-System Services

      The operating system (OS) provides essential services that facilitate user interaction, program execution, and efficient resource management. One of the key OS services is the user interface (UI), which enables users to interact with the system. This interface can be a graphical user interface (GUI), a command-line interface (CLI), or a touchscreen interface for mobile devices. Each offers distinct advantages, with GUIs being user-friendly, CLIs offering precision, and touchscreens enabling intuitive interactions. Another crucial service is program execution, where the OS loads programs into memory and ensures they run efficiently. Programs must be able to terminate normally or abnormally, with the OS managing errors that arise during execution. Additionally, I/O operations allow programs to interact with hardware devices like disks, networks, and printers, ensuring proper data flow and user interaction. The file-system manipulation service manages data storage and retrieval, allowing programs to read, write, create, and delete files while enforcing access permissions. Communication services facilitate inter-process communication (IPC) through shared memory or message passing, ensuring seamless data exchange between processes on the same or different machines. To maintain system integrity, error detection continuously monitors hardware and software errors, taking corrective actions when necessary. The OS also handles resource allocation, ensuring efficient distribution of CPU cycles, memory, and peripheral devices among multiple processes. Logging and accounting track resource usage for analysis and billing purposes. Lastly, protection and security services safeguard system resources and user data from unauthorized access, ensuring a stable and secure computing environment.

    1. La sfârșitul veacului trecut și la începutul veacului nostru, sub domnia absolută a clasicismului, s-au făcut reguli, un cod întreg de legi după care artiștii trebuiau să-și creeze operele. Aceste reguli țineau ca-ntr-un corset strâmt literatura, sugrumând-o. Victor Hugo, înconjurat de o legiune întreagă de talente, a dat asalt împotriva clasicismului, l-a învins, romantismul a sfărâmat toate regulile și legile estetice ale clasicismului. Rămasă fără reguli, fără legi, critica de la începutul epocii romantismului nu putea să fie decât cu totul arbitrară. Neavând legi, criticii au căpătat putere prea mare, nimic nu-i oprea de-a judeca după gustul și placul lor. Puterea prea mare în literatură, ca și în politică, e stricătoare. Criticii dădeau numele de talente, de maeștri, de genii, după hatâr, după gradul de prietenie: iată de unde vine și plângerea artiștilor de la începutul veacului împotriva criticii, cum și superficialitatea criticii, cu mici excepții. Și nici nu putea să fie altfel. Operă bună, rea, de talent, genială... ce cuvinte largi și cu ce înțeles nehotărât și relativ! Din două opere de artă de aceeași valoare, e foarte ușor să arăți că una-i de talent și alta slabă, pentru aceasta n-ai decât să schimbi termenii de comparație.

      k

    2. Și trebuie să ne spunem sincer păperea: nu învinuim deloc nici pe dl Morna, nici pe alții; părerile lor sunt o urmare neînlăturată a direcției greșite a criticii noastre în general (pentru că oricât ar fi de neînsemnată, dar tot avem și noi o critică). Această direcție nu este a criticii moderne, ci a criticii care a fost în Franța pe la începutul veacului. Critica se credea pe atunci judecător chemat a judeca pe scriitori și operele lor. Critica dădea sentințe, împărțea titluri: cutare operă e bună, cutare rea; cutare magistrală, sublimă, genială; cutare stupidă etc. Bineînțeles că în astfel de împrejurări critica trebuia să ajungă un judecător părtinitor și aducător de întuneric și zavistie în literatură. Pentru ce? Pentru un cuvânt foarte simplu. Care este condiția esențială ca judecătorul să nu cadă în arbitrar? Condiția de căpetenie este ca regulile, legile după care judecă să fie bine hotărâte, foarte lămurite; altfel orice judecător va fi arbitrar.

      m

    3. Am adus aceste exemple din Taine și Faguet pentru a arăta cât de imparțială — relativ, bineînțeles — e critica din Occidentul Europei, de ce spirit relativist eminamente științific e însuflețită. Ea pricepe că un om în general, și mai cu seamă un om genial, e ceva prea complex; că o creațiune artistică e prea multilaterală ca să poată fi caracterizată numai prin laude sau prin huliri, care prin faptul că sunt numai laude ori huliri sunt unilaterale. Critica europeană a înțeles că, imperfecția omenească fiind în natura omului, imperfecția artistică e în natura artistului și, mai mult decât atâta, ea a înțeles că meritele și neajunsurile, partea negativă și cea pozitivă ale unei creațiuni artistice se țin strâns legate, se condiționează una pe alta, și nu se poate pricepe bine chiar partea pozitivă a creațiunii, dacă nu se pricepe partea negativă.

      !

    1. o

      This is relative, of course. The term "scientifically," like the term "science," is much abused. Even used here it is somewhat subjective. If it were possible to sort the various scientific disciplines into categories of "exactitude," I suspect physics and chemistry would come out on top, in the middle somewhere would be the natural sciences such as my own field of ecology, and at the low end would be sociology. This is not a criticism at all, just an observation on the variability of the human psyche and human behaviors relative to the exactness of physical laws. Much of what we see in the lesser sciences (my own included) are disciplined empirical observations from which we can draw inferences.

    1. Women respondents

      Temas recurrentes e importantes

      Cuidado personal: Equilibrio entre el trabajo y las responsabilidades de cuidado. Pueden ser solteras y tener un nivel económico más alto que los hombres encuestados.

      Capital educativo: Uso de YouTube como herramienta para buscar tutoriales sobre cómo realizar las tareas. Uso de herramientas para traducir inglés y desarrollar competencias en este idioma.

      Independencia: El trabajo colaborativo se percibe como un ingreso complementario que puede promover la independencia financiera.

      Alienación: No tienen contacto con otras mujeres trabajadoras colaborativas. Podrían valorar el contacto con otros trabajadores colaborativos. Percepción de que el género no afecta el trabajo colaborativo. Respeto o neutralidad hacia el trabajo colaborativo.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the current reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      The study presents a potentially valuable approach to genetically modify cells to produce extracellular matrices with altered compositions, termed cell-laid, engineered extracellular matrices (eECM). The evidence supporting the authors' conclusions regarding the utility of eECM for endogenous repair is solid, although there are some disagreements on the chondrogenicity of lyophilized constructs which was viewed as lacking robust evidence for endochondral ossification.

      We thank the reviewers for the assessment of our work. We however strongly contest the lack of evidence for chondrogenicity and endochondral ossification. This is robustly demonstrated and a clear strength of our study.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to modify the characteristics of the extracellular matrix (ECM) produced by immortalized mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) by employing the CRISPR/Cas9 system to knock out specific genes. Initially, they established VEGF-KO cell lines, demonstrating that these cells retained chondrogenic and angiogenic properties. Additionally, lyophilized carriage tissues produced by these cells exhibited retained osteogenic properties.

      Subsequently, the authors established RUNX2-KO cell lines, which exhibited reduced COLX expression during chondrogenic differentiation and notably diminished osteogenic properties in vitro. Transplantation of lyophilized carriage tissues produced by RUNX2-KO cell lines into osteochondral defects in rat knee joints resulted in the regeneration of articular cartilage tissues as well as bone tissues, a phenomenon not observed with tissues derived from parental cells. This suggests that gene-edited MSCs represent a valuable cell source for producing ECM with enhanced quality.

      Strengths:

      The enhanced cartilage regeneration observed with ECM derived from RUNX2-KO cells supports the authors' strategy of creating gene-edited MSCs capable of producing ECM with superior quality. Immortalized cell lines offer a limitless source of off-the-shelf material for tissue regeneration.

      Weaknesses:

      Most of the data align with anticipated outcomes, offering limited novelty to advance scientific understanding. Methodologically, the chondrogenic differentiation properties of immortalized MSCs appeared deficient, evidenced by Safranin-O staining of 3D tissues and histological findings lacking robust evidence for endochondral differentiation. This presents a critical limitation, particularly as authors propose the implantation of cartilage tissues for in vivo experiments. Instead, the bulk of data stemmed from type I collagen scaffold with factors produced by MSCs stimulated by TGFβ.

      We thank the reviewer for the thorough evaluation. We appreciate the highlighted novelty but overall disagree with key points from the provided assessment. The most important one being non the contested in vitro cartilage and endochondral ossification by engineered ECMs, for which we have provided compelling evidence. Of note, the reviewer points the “osteogenic” properties of our tissues; the wording is incorrect since cells are absent from the final grafts. Here, the term ”osteoinductivity” should be employed, in line with the model of ectopic ossification used to demonstrate de novo bone formation.

      In the revised version, the authors presented Safranin-O staining results of pellets prior to lyophilization. The inset of figures showing entire pellets revealed that Safranin-O-positive areas were limited, suggesting that cells in the negative regions had not differentiated into chondrocytes. In Figure 3F, DAPI staining showed devitalized cells in the outer layer but was negative in the central part, indicating the absence of cells in these areas and incomplete differentiation induction.

      We strongly disagree with the reviewer on the lack of demonstrated chondrogenicity. We have provided evidence of Safranin-O positivity, GAGs quantification, as well as collagen type 2 and collagen type X stainings (also quantified). Frankly, those are gold standard assays in the field and we do not understand the reviewer point of view. We however agree that our grafts are not entirely composed of cartilage matrix. There are areas where cartilage is absent, in particular in the core of the tissues. This is expected from in vitro engineered cartilage pellets even from primary BM-MSCs donors. By selecting primary donors it is possible to obtain a superior cartilage formation. Our MSOD-B cells remain to-the-best-of-our -knowledge, the only human line capable of in vitro chondrogenesis, even if considered moderate.

      We agree with the absence of cells in the core area of our tissues, as correctly pointed out by the reviewer. This has been reported in other studies whereby the lack of media diffusion can lead to necrotic core formation.

      The rationale for establishing VEGF-KO cell lines remains unclear, and the authors' explanation in the revised manuscript is still equivocal. While they mention that VEGF is a late marker for endochondral ossification, the data in Figures 1D and 1E clearly show that VEGF-KO affects the early phase of endochondral ossification.

      We feel that the rationale for a VEGF-KO is sufficiently conveyed. In our study, VEGF-KO affects GAGs content in the tissue, but not the efficiency of ossification.

      Insufficient depth was given to elucidate the disparity in osteogenic properties between those observed in ectopic bone formation and those observed in transplantation into osteochondral defects.

      We here agree with the reviewer on the limited depth of our osteochondral assessment. However, this was performed as a proof-of-concept and we clearly conveyed both limitations and need of a follow-up study to demonstrate the repair efficacy of our tissue in such defect context.

      In the ectopic bone formation study, most of the collagenous matrix observed at 2 weeks was resorbed by 6 weeks, with only a small amount contributing to bone formation in MSOD-B cells (Figs. 2I and 4C). This finding does not align with the micro-CT data presented in Figures 2H and 4B. For the micro-CT experiments, it would be more appropriate to use a standard window for bone and present the data accordingly.

      Stainings report the deposition of collagens and may be misleading as not only indicating frank bone formation. This is the reason why we provided microCT data, offering a quantitative assessment of the full grafts and more reliably evaluating mineralized/bone tissue. We feel that our results matched our conclusions.

      While the regeneration of articular cartilage in RUNX2-KO ECM presents intriguing results, the study lacked an exploration into underlying mechanisms, such as histological analyses at earlier time points.

      We do agree with the reviewer regarding this limitation. In addition to mechanisms and early timepoints, we are also interested in longer in vivo evaluation. This represents a significant amount of work which is beyond the scope of our present manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors have started off using an immortalized human cell line and then gene edited it to decrease the levels of VEGF1 (in order to influence vascularization), and the levels of Runx2 (to decrease osteogenesis). They first transplanted these cells with a collagen scaffold. The modified cells showed a decrease in vascularization when VEGF1 was decreased, and suggested an increase in cartilage formation.

      In another study, matrix generated by these cells subsequently remodeled into a bone marrow organ. When RUNX2 was decreased, the cells did not mineralize in vitro, and their matrices expressed types I and II collagen but not type X collagen in vitro, in comparison with unedited cells. In vivo, the author claims that remodeling of the matrices into bone was somewhat inhibited. Lastly, they utilized matrices generated by RUNX2-edited cells to regenerate chondro-osteal defects. They suggest that the edited cells regenerated cartilage in comparison with unedited cells.

      Strengths:

      - The notion that inducing changes in the ECM by genetically editing the cells is a novel one, as it has long been thought that ECM composition influences cell activity.

      - If successful, it may be possible to make off the shelf ECMS to carry out different types of tissue repair.

      Weaknesses:

      - The authors have not demonstrated robust cartilage formation (quantitation would be useful).

      - Measuring total GAG content does not prove the presence of cartilage

      - There are numerous overstatements about forming and implanting cartilage.

      - Although it is implied, RUNX2 deletion did not improve cartilage formation by the modified cells.

      - In the control line, MSOD-B there were variability in the amount of safranin O positive material in various histological panels in the figures.; more quantitation is needed.

      - In the in vivo articular defect experiments, an untreated injured joint is needed as a negative control.

      - Statements about bone generation are often not reflective of the microCT data presented.<br /> - The discussion over-interprets the results.

      We thank the reviewer for the further assessment of our work. We respectfully disagree with most of the provided statements. The chondrogenicity of our graft is robustly demonstrated using multiple readouts, including quantitative ones. Beyond GAGs, we provided clear Safranin-O stainings, as well as collagen type 2 and X indicating presence of hypertrophic cartilage matrix. Those are the gold standards in the field and we thus do not understand the reviewer scepticism. We do agree that our grafts are fully composed of cartilage matrix, with areas (in the core) deprived of cartilage. This does not impact the core findings of our study and its conclusions, and we strongly feel our statements about forming in vitro cartilage fully stand.

      We do not claim in the manuscript an increased cartilage formation following RUNX2 deletion. We report in vitro an impaired hypertrophy (collagen type X) and maintenance of collagen type 2 and GAGs content.

      We are confident on our data regarding de novo bone formation bi priming endochondral ossification, confirmed both by stainings and microCT. We feel that our claims are well-supported.


      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews: 

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review): 

      Summary: 

      The authors aimed to modify the characteristics of the extracellular matrix (ECM) produced by immortalized mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) by employing the CRISPR/Cas9 system to knock out specific genes. Initially, they established VEGF-KO cell lines, demonstrating that these cells retained chondrogenic and angiogenic properties. Additionally, lyophilized carriage tissues produced by these cells exhibited retained osteogenic properties. 

      Subsequently, the authors established RUNX2-KO cell lines, which exhibited reduced COLX expression during chondrogenic differentiation and notably diminished osteogenic properties in vitro. Transplantation of lyophilized carriage tissues produced by RUNX2-KO cell lines into osteochondral defects in rat knee joints resulted in the regeneration of articular cartilage tissues as well as bone tissues, a phenomenon not observed with tissues derived from parental cells. This suggests that gene-edited MSCs represent a valuable cell source for producing ECM with enhanced quality. 

      Strengths: 

      The enhanced cartilage regeneration observed with ECM derived from RUNX2-KO cells supports the authors' strategy of creating gene-edited MSCs capable of producing ECM with superior quality. Immortalized cell lines offer a limitless source of off-the-shelf material for tissue regeneration. 

      We thank the reviewer for the interest in our work. We however want to clarify that the present manuscript does not report the generation of ECM with “superior quality”, but rather of modulated composition and thus function.  

      Weaknesses: 

      Most data align with anticipated outcomes, offering limited novelty to advance scientific understanding. Methodologically, the chondrogenic differentiation properties of immortalized MSCs appeared deficient, evidenced by Safranin-O staining of 3D tissues and histological findings lacking robust evidence for endochondral differentiation. This presents a critical limitation, particularly as authors propose the implantation of cartilage tissues for in vivo experiments. Instead, the bulk of data stemmed from type I collagen scaffold with factors produced by MSCs stimulated by TGFβ. 

      The chondrogenic differentiation of our MSOD-B line and their capacity of undergoing endochondral ossification has been robustly demonstrated in previous studies (Pigeot et al., Advanced Materials 2021 and Grigoryan et al., Science Translational Medicine 2022). In the present manuscript, we thus compare the chondrogenic capacity of newly established VEGF-KO and RUNX-KO lines to those of MSOD-B cells. We demonstrate by qualitative (Safranin-O staining, Collagen type 2 and Collagen type X immuno-stainings) and quantitative (glycosaminoglycans assay) assays that the generated tissues consist in cartilage grafts of similar quality than the MSOD-B counterpart. Of note, the safranin-O stainings were performed on lyophilized tissues, which can alter the staining quality/intensity. We now provide additional stainings of generated tissues pre-lyophilization. This is implemented in Figure 1D, Figure 3D.

      The rationale behind establishing VEGF-KO cell lines remains unclear. What specific outcomes did the authors anticipate from this modification? 

      VEGF is a known master regulator of angiogenesis and a key mediator of endochondral ossification. It has also been extensively used in bone tissue engineering studies as a supplemented factor – primarily in the form of VEGFα – to increase the vascularization and thus outcome of bone formation of engineered grafts (https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01606-9, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S8756328216301752). In our study, it was thus identified as a natural candidate to demonstrate the possibility to generate VEGF-KO cartilage and subsequently assess the functional impact on both the angiogenic and osteogenic potential of resulting cartilage tissue. This is now clarified in the manuscript (page 3, paragraph 4).

      Insufficient depth was given to elucidate the disparity in osteogenic properties between those observed in ectopic bone formation and those observed in transplantation into osteochondral defects. While the regeneration of articular cartilage in RUNX2-KO ECM presents intriguing results, the study lacked an exploration into underlying mechanisms, such as histological analyses at earlier time points. 

      Using RUNX2-KO ECM, we aimed at demonstrating the impact on cartilage remodeling and bone formation. This was performed ectopically but also in the rat osteochondral defect as a regenerative set-up of higher clinical relevance. We agree with the reviewer that additional experimental groups and time-points (not only earlier but also longer ones) would offer a better mechanistic understanding of the ECM contribution to the joint repair. However, as stated in our manuscript this is a proof-of-concept study that successfully demonstrated the influence of the cartilage ECM modification on the in vivo skeletal regeneration. A follow-up study would need to be performed to complement existing evidence and strengthen the relevance of our approach for cartilage repair. This is now further emphasized in the discussion (page 11, paragraph 3).  

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review): 

      The manuscript submitted by Sujeethkumar et al. describes an alternative approach to skeletal tissue repair using extracellular matrix (ECM) deposited by genetically modified mesenchymal stromal/stem cells. Here, they generate a loss of function mutations in VEGF or RUNX2 in a BMP2overexpressing MSC line and define the differences in the resulting tissue-engineered constructs following seeding onto a type I collagen matrix in vitro, and following lyophilization and subcutaneous and orthotopic implantation into mice and rats. Some strengths of this manuscript are the establishment of a platform by which modifications in cell-derived ECM can be evaluated both in vitro and in vivo, the demonstration that genetic modification of cells results in complexity of in vitro cell-derived ECM that elicits quantifiable results, and the admirable goal to improve endogenous cartilage repair. However, I recommend the authors clarify their conclusions and add more information regarding reproducibility, which was one limitation of primary-cell-derived ECMs. 

      We thank the reviewer for the positive evaluation of our work.  

      Overcoming the limitations of native/autologous/allogeneic ECMs such as complete decellularization and reduction of batch-to-batch variability was not specifically addressed in the data provided herein. For the maintenance of ECM organization and complexity following lyophilization, evidence of complete decellularization was not addressed, but could be easily evaluated using polarized light microscopy and quantification of human DNA for example in constructs pre and post-lyophilization. 

      We appreciate the reviewer comments and acknowledge the lack of information in the first version of our manuscript. In line with our previous study (Pigeot et al., Advanced Materials 2021), the ectopic evaluation of our cartilage pellets was strictly done with lyophilized tissues using immunocompromised animals. Lyophilized tissues are thus considered devitalized, and not decellularized. Instead, the osteochondral defect experiment was performed with decellularized tissues in order to be able to implant the grafts in the rat immuno-competent model. This is now specified consistently throughout the manuscript. The decellularization process is also now incorporated accordingly in the method section (page 14, paragraph 2). We also provide quantifications of GAGs and DNAs from tissue pre- and post-decellularization (Supplementary figure 6A and 6B), described in the result section of the manuscript (page 9, paragraph 1). The decellularization step led to 97-98% of DNA removal.

      Importantly, we do not claim full maintenance of ECM integrity following lyophilization nor decellularization.  This is now clarified in the discussion (page 12, paragraph 2). However, we report their capacity to instruct skeletal regeneration in multiple contexts despite extensive processing.

      It would be ideal to see minimization of batch-to-batch variability using this approach, as mitigation of using a sole cell line is likely not sufficient (considering that the sole cell line-derived Matrigel does exhibit batch-to-batch and manufacturer-to-manufacturer variability). I recommend adding details regarding experimental design and outcomes not initially considered. Inter- and intraexperimental reproducibility was not adequately addressed. The size of in vitro-derived cartilage pellets was not quantified, and it is not clear that more than one independent 'differentiation' was performed from each gene-edited MSC line to generate in vitro replicates and constructs that were implanted in vivo. 

      We thank the Reviewer for the comment on variability/reproducibility concern. Using a cell line does confer higher robustness but indeed does not grant unlimited consistency of batch production. We now temper our claims in the discussion and mention the need to regularly recharacterize cell lines properties upon passages (page 12, paragraph 2). Using our edited lines, we have generated multiple batches of cartilage grafts for their in vitro characterization or in vivo performance assessment. We have now compiled batch variations of GAG content and pellet volume, provided as Supplementary figure 5. This revealed that batches are indeed not identical (nor each pellets), but the production remains consistent.

      The use of descriptive language in describing conclusions may mislead the reader and should be modified accordingly throughout the manuscript. For example, although this reviewer agrees with the comparative statements made by the authors regarding parental and gene-edited MSC lines, non-quantifiable terms such as 'frank' 'superior' (example, line 242) are inappropriate and should rather be discussed in terms of significance. Another example is 'rich-collagenous matrix,' which was not substantiated by uniform immunostaining for type II collagen (line 189). 

      We thank the Reviewer for the constructive suggestions. We have revised the language accordingly throughout the manuscript. 

      I have similar recommendations regarding conclusive statements from the rat implantation model, which was appropriately used for the purpose of evaluating the response of native skeletal cells to the different cell-derived ECMs. Interpretations of these results should be described with more accuracy. For example, increased TRAP staining does not indicate reduced active bone formation (line 237). Many would not conclude that GAGs were retained in the RUNX2-KO line graft subchondral region based on the histology. Quantification of % chondral regeneration using histology is not accurate as it is greatly influenced by the location in the defect from which the section was taken. Chondral regeneration is usually semi-quantified from gross observations of the cartilage surface immediately following excision. The statements regarding integration (example line 290) are not founded by histological evidence, which should show high magnification of the periphery of the graft adjacent to the native tissue. 

      We have revised our language relative to the TRAP staining description (page 9, paragraph 2). We also agree with the reviewer on the semi-quantitative approach of our methodology,  which we transparently disclosed both in the main text (page 9, paragraph 3) and method section (page 18, paragraph 2). The sectioning location does influence the analysis, but to prevent this we performed an assessment at different depth (top, middle, bottom for each sample). This is now implemented in our method section (page 18, paragraph 3). On the tissue integration, we now provide higher magnification images of the implant/host tissue area (Figure 5F).

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review): 

      Summary: 

      In this study, the authors have started off using an immortalized human cell line and then geneedited it to decrease the levels of VEGF1 (in order to influence vascularization), and the levels of Runx2 (to decrease chondro/osteogenesis). They first transplanted these cells with a collagen scaffold. The modified cells showed a decrease in vascularization when VEGF1 was decreased, and suggested an increase in cartilage formation. 

      In another study, the matrix generated by these cells was subsequently remodeled into a bone marrow organ. When RUNX2 was decreased, the cells did not mineralize in vitro, and their matrices expressed types I and II collagen but not type X collagen in vitro, in comparison with unedited cells. In vivo, the author claims that remodeling of the matrices into bone was somewhat inhibited. Lastly, they utilized matrices generated by RUNX2 edited cells to regenerate chondro-osteal defects. They suggest that the edited cells regenerated cartilage in comparison with unedited cells. 

      Strengths: 

      - The notion that inducing changes in the ECM by genetically editing the cells is a novel one, as it has long been thought that ECM composition influences cell activity. 

      - If successful, it may be possible to make off-the-shelf ECMS to carry out different types of tissue repair. 

      We thank the Reviewer for the critical evaluation of our work and the highlighted novelty of it.  

      Weaknesses: 

      - The authors have not generated histologically identifiable cartilage or bone in their transplants of the cells with a type I scaffold. 

      The chondrogenic differentiation of our MSOD-B line and their capacity of undergoing endochondral ossification has been robustly demonstrated in previous studies (Pigeot et al., Advanced Materials 2021 and Grigoryan et al., Science Translational Medicine 2022). In the present manuscript, we thus compare the chondrogenic capacity of newly established VEGF-KO and RUNX-KO lines to those of MSOD-B. We demonstrate by qualitative (Safranin-O staining, Collagen type 2 and Collagen type X immuno-stainings) and quantitative (glycosaminoglycans assay) assays that the generated tissues consist in cartilage tissue of similar quality than the MSOD-B. Of note, the safranin-O stainings were performed on lyophilized tissues, which can alter the staining quality/intensity. We now provide here additional stainings of generated tissues pre-lyophilization. This is implemented in Figure 1D and Figure 3D.

      On the contested formation of bone in vivo by our ECMs grafts, we have provided compelling qualitative evidence via Masson´s Trichrome stainings and quantification of mineralized volume by µCT. Both cortical bone and trabecular structures were identified ectopically. Those are standard evaluation methods in the field, we would be happy to receive additional suggestions by the Reviewer. 

      - In many cases, they did not generate histologically identifiable cartilage with their cell-free-edited scaffold. They did generate small amounts of bone but this is most likely due to BMPs that were synthesized by the cells and trapped in the matrix. 

      We now appreciate that the Reviewer agrees on the successful formation of bone induced by our engineered grafts. We however still respectfully disagree with the “small amount of bone” statement since our MSOD-B and MSOD-B VEGF KO cartilage grafts led to the full generation of a mature ectopic bone organ (that is, also composed of extensive marrow). This has been assessed qualitatively and quantitatively. 

      We agree with the Reviewer on the key role of BMP-2 in the remodeling process into bone and bone marrow, which we have extensively described in our previous publication (Pigeot et al., Advanced Materials 2021). However, the low amount of BMP-2 (in the dozens of nanogram/tissue range) embedded in the matrix is not sufficient per se to induce ectopic endochondral ossification. It is the combined presence of GAGs in the matrix -thus cartilage- that allows the success of bone formation.  

      - There is a great deal of missing detail in the manuscript. 

      We have incorporated additional methodological details describing the lyophilization/decellularization process of our tissues prior to evaluation (see Material and Methods section). We also have included a description of the MSOD-B line and implemented genetic elements (Supplementary Figure 1A).  

      - The in vivo study is underpowered, the results are not well documented pictorially, and are not convincing. 

      We believe our group size supports our conclusions confirmed by statistical assessment. We have provided additional stainings and images of higher magnifications (Figure 5) for both the ectopic and orthotopic in vivo evaluation.  

      - Given the fact that they have genetically modified cells, they could have done analyses of ECM components to determine what was different between the lines, both at the transcriptome and the protein level. Consequently, the study is purely descriptive and does not provide any mechanistic understanding of what mixture of matrix components and growth factors works best for cartilage or bone. But this presupposes that they actually induced the formation of bona fide cartilage, at least. 

      We thank the Reviewer for the suggestion. However, our study did not aim at understanding what ECM graft composition work best for cartilage nor bone regeneration respectively. Instead, we propose the exploitation of our cellular tools to interrogate the function of key ECM constituents and their impact in skeletal regeneration. We once more confirm that we generated cartilage grafts which is now better supported by additional histological assessment before lyophilization.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors aimed to modify the characteristics of the extracellular matrix (ECM) produced by immortalized mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) by employing the CRISPR/Cas9 system to knock out specific genes. Initially, they established VEGF-KO cell lines, demonstrating that these cells retained chondrogenic and angiogenic properties. Additionally, lyophilized carriage tissues produced by these cells exhibited retained osteogenic properties.

      Subsequently, the authors established RUNX2-KO cell lines, which exhibited reduced COLX expression during chondrogenic differentiation and notably diminished osteogenic properties in vitro. Transplantation of lyophilized carriage tissues produced by RUNX2-KO cell lines into osteochondral defects in rat knee joints resulted in the regeneration of articular cartilage tissues as well as bone tissues, a phenomenon not observed with tissues derived from parental cells. This suggests that gene-edited MSCs represent a valuable cell source for producing ECM with enhanced quality.

      Strengths:

      The enhanced cartilage regeneration observed with ECM derived from RUNX2-KO cells supports the authors' strategy of creating gene-edited MSCs capable of producing ECM with superior quality. Immortalized cell lines offer a limitless source of off-the-shelf material for tissue regeneration.

      Weaknesses:

      Most of the data align with anticipated outcomes, offering limited novelty to advance scientific understanding. Methodologically, the chondrogenic differentiation properties of immortalized MSCs appeared deficient, evidenced by Safranin-O staining of 3D tissues and histological findings lacking robust evidence for endochondral differentiation. This presents a critical limitation, particularly as authors propose the implantation of cartilage tissues for in vivo experiments. Instead, the bulk of data stemmed from type I collagen scaffold with factors produced by MSCs stimulated by TGFβ.

      In the revised version, the authors presented Safranin-O staining results of pellets prior to lyophilization. The inset of figures showing entire pellets revealed that Safranin-O-positive areas were limited, suggesting that cells in the negative regions had not differentiated into chondrocytes. In Figure 3F, DAPI staining showed devitalized cells in the outer layer but was negative in the central part, indicating the absence of cells in these areas and incomplete differentiation induction.

      The rationale for establishing VEGF-KO cell lines remains unclear, and the authors' explanation in the revised manuscript is still equivocal. While they mention that VEGF is a late marker for endochondral ossification, the data in Figures 1D and 1E clearly show that VEGF-KO affects the early phase of endochondral ossification.

      Insufficient depth was given to elucidate the disparity in osteogenic properties between those observed in ectopic bone formation and those observed in transplantation into osteochondral defects.

      In the ectopic bone formation study, most of the collagenous matrix observed at 2 weeks was resorbed by 6 weeks, with only a small amount contributing to bone formation in MSOD-B cells (Figs. 2I and 4C). This finding does not align with the micro-CT data presented in Figures 2H and 4B. For the micro-CT experiments, it would be more appropriate to use a standard window for bone and present the data accordingly.

      While the regeneration of articular cartilage in RUNX2-KO ECM presents intriguing results, the study lacked an exploration into underlying mechanisms, such as histological analyses at earlier time points.

    3. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this study, the authors have started off using an immortalized human cell line and then gene edited it to decrease the levels of VEGF1 (in order to influence vascularization), and the levels of Runx2 (to decrease osteogenesis). They first transplanted these cells with a collagen scaffold. The modified cells showed a decrease in vascularization when VEGF1 was decreased, and suggested an increase in cartilage formation.

      In another study, matrix generated by these cells subsequently remodeled into a bone marrow organ. When RUNX2 was decreased, the cells did not mineralize in vitro, and their matrices expressed types I and II collagen but not type X collagen in vitro, in comparison with unedited cells. In vivo, the author claims that remodeling of the matrices into bone was somewhat inhibited. Lastly, they utilized matrices generated by RUNX2-edited cells to regenerate chondro-osteal defects. They suggest that the edited cells regenerated cartilage in comparison with unedited cells.

      Strengths:

      - The notion that inducing changes in the ECM by genetically editing the cells is a novel one, as it has long been thought that ECM composition influences cell activity.<br /> - If successful, it may be possible to make off the shelf ECMS to carry out different types of tissue repair.

      Weaknesses:

      - The authors have not demonstrated robust cartilage formation (quantitation would be useful).<br /> - Measuring total GAG content does not prove the presence of cartilage<br /> - There are numerous overstatements about forming and implanting cartilage.<br /> - Although it is implied, RUNX2 deletion did not improve cartilage formation by the modified cells.<br /> - In the control line, MSOD-B there were variability in the amount of safranin O positive material in various histological panels in the figures.; more quantitation is needed.<br /> - In the in vivo articular defect experiments, an untreated injured joint is needed as a negative control.<br /> - Statements about bone generation are often not reflective of the microCT data presented.<br /> - The discussion over-interprets the results.

    1. Los inhibidores de la COX-2, incluido el celecoxib, se relacionan con un mayor riesgo cardiovascular, incluso muerte cardiovascular, infarto del miocardio, apoplejía, insuficiencia cardiaca o un fenómeno tromboembolico.

      Inhibidores COX2 > mayor riesgo CV

    2. La manera más confiable de activar este sistema modulador mediado por opioides endógenos es mediante la posibilidad de alivio del dolor o por una emoción intensa alejada de la lesión causante del dolor (p. ej., durante una amenaza grave o en una competencia atlética

      Opioides endogenos

    3. estructuras profundas como las articulaciones o víscera hueca, si resultan afectadas por un proceso patológico con un componente inflamatorio, de manera característica se vuelven extraordinariamente sensibles a la estimulación mecánica.

      Sensibilización>> la haber mediadores inflamatorios, baja el umbral para activarse ante un estimulo y esto genera que un tejido que no es tan sensible a un estimulo, se convierta en muyyy sensible a la estimulación mecánica

    1. Technical, Social and Ethical Considerations of the Workflow of the system

      El perfil arquetípico para este sistema es una mujer activa en redes sociales que sufre violencia digital, siendo un referente de opinión o activista. Este enfoque tiene en cuenta que muchas de las mujeres víctimas son líderes de opinión, comunicadoras, académicas o activistas con influencia política, social y de derechos humanos. Por ello, el diseño de la interacción con el chatbot debe ser empático, inclusivo y sensible a las corporalidades de las mujeres en Colombia.

      Inteligencia Artificial en el Sistema

      La Inteligencia Artificial será clave para el procesamiento y análisis de los casos reportados. El sistema automatizado clasificará la información obtenida, identificando los siguientes elementos:

      Tipos de ataque: tipologías de violencia digital.

      Palabras clave asociadas al acoso: para identificar patrones recurrentes.

      Perfiles de los agresores: para identificar posibles perfiles de acosadores.

      Frecuencia y recurrencia: para rastrear la aparición de ataques en contextos específicos (por ejemplo, durante crisis sociopolíticas).

      El sistema permitirá, además, generar alertas automáticas cuando se identifiquen patrones de ataque coordinado o perfiles de agresores recurrentes. Esta información será almacenada en una base de datos, que alimentará visualizaciones de datos accesibles al público, lo cual puede ser utilizado por investigadores, periodistas y otras partes interesadas para desarrollar políticas públicas o acciones de defensa.

      Protección de Datos y Privacidad

      Los datos solicitados al momento del reporte de violencia digital serán limitados y confidenciales. Se pedirá a las víctimas que proporcionen:

      Fecha aproximada del ataque.

      Plataforma de redes sociales donde ocurrió el ataque.

      Evidencia del ataque (captura de pantalla, vínculo, detalles del perfil del agresor).

      Datos opcionales como nombre (no necesariamente real), correo electrónico, edad, ocupación y ciudad.

      El sistema incluirá una política de privacidad clara y accesible, explicando cómo se utilizarán los datos para el seguimiento y la elaboración de informes. Esto garantizará que el proceso sea transparente y respetuoso con la privacidad de las usuarias.

      Impacto y Alcance

      La implementación de este sistema en Colombia buscará generar un impacto social a través de una campaña de divulgación que informe a las mujeres sobre la disponibilidad de esta plataforma para reportar casos de DGV y recibir orientación. El sistema tiene como objetivo:

      Desarrollar un modelo de base de datos que categorice y cuantifique los casos de violencia digital en Colombia.

      Generar visualizaciones de datos que sean descargables y útiles para diversas partes interesadas.

      Crear informes que sirvan como herramientas para la toma de decisiones en políticas públicas y apoyo de organizaciones feministas y de derechos humanos.

      Desarrollo Futuro

      El desarrollo del prototipo del chatbot se apoyaría en principios feministas, y se utilizarían guías de Inteligencia Artificial feminista para asegurar que el diseño del sistema no solo sea funcional, sino también ético y respetuoso con las mujeres. Este chatbot no será una solución única, sino parte de un sistema de soporte integral que incluye recursos y apoyo emocional, legal y digital. Además, se buscarán colaboraciones con organizaciones feministas en Colombia y el sector público para fortalecer el impacto y la implementación del sistema.

      Búsqueda de financiamiento para la fase de desarrollo y prueba del prototipo.

      Desarrollo y ajuste del chatbot con la inclusión de un equipo de programadores especializados.

      Establecimiento de alianzas con organizaciones y organismos nacionales e internacionales para apoyo en la fase de implementación.

      Publicación del informe final y la documentación técnica para su difusión académica y en medios abiertos.

    2. Methodology : Applying feminist principles in the research with women who have experienced DGV situations

      La creación de un sistema de respuesta para mujeres que han sufrido violencia de género digital desde una perspectiva feminista implica desarrollar todo el proceso de diseño y creación basado en principios feministas. Este enfoque, fundamentado en la co-creación participativa, el pluralismo, la agencia de las usuarias y la incorporación de corporalidades, busca soluciones tecnológicas que respeten y amplifiquen las experiencias y necesidades de las mujeres afectadas.

      Principios Clave para el Diseño Feminista

      Pluralismo y Participación

      Involucrar activamente a las mujeres afectadas y a organizaciones feministas durante el proceso de diseño para garantizar que las soluciones reflejen sus vivencias y necesidades específicas.

      Conocimiento Situado

      Reconocer las dinámicas de poder y evitar reproducir desigualdades estructurales. La metodología debe ser inclusiva y ética, dando espacio a voces históricamente marginadas.

      Embodiment (Corporalidad)

      Incorporar la dimensión emocional y corporal en la investigación, entendiendo cómo las mujeres viven y procesan los episodios de violencia digital.

      Agencia de las Usuarias

      Diseñar sistemas donde las mujeres sean protagonistas y agentes de su propio proceso, en lugar de delegar el poder únicamente a los diseñadores o instituciones.

      Metodología de Investigación

      El diseño del sistema se estructuró en dos fases principales:

      Co-creación con Mujeres Afectadas y Organizaciones Feministas

      A través de entrevistas profundas y dinámicas participativas (como mapas de viaje emocional), se exploraron las experiencias, necesidades y deseos de las mujeres afectadas.

      Hallazgos Clave

      Sensación de soledad y desorientación al enfrentar la violencia digital.

      Restricciones autoimpuestas en redes sociales, como privatización de cuentas y limitación de publicaciones.

      Necesidad de comunidades de apoyo para compartir experiencias y evitar revictimización.

      Deseo de sistemas tecnológicos que ofrezcan orientación clara y rápida.

      Entrevistas con Instituciones y Expertos

      Se consultaron actores estratégicos, como instituciones públicas y organizaciones especializadas, para validar y complementar las necesidades identificadas.

      Propuesta Tecnológica: Incorporación de Inteligencia Artificial y Traducción

      Uso de IA para la Detección y Análisis

      Patrones de Violencia: Identificar tendencias en el uso de palabras clave, emojis o comportamientos recurrentes.

      Alertas Preventivas: Implementar sistemas que indiquen niveles de riesgo y sugieran acciones inmediatas.

      Apoyo Multilingüe

      Implementar traducción automática para garantizar accesibilidad a mujeres de diferentes regiones y contextos lingüísticos en Colombia.

      Enfoque Comunitario y de Cuidado

      Crear redes de apoyo virtual donde las mujeres puedan compartir experiencias y recibir orientación en tiempo real.

      Recomendaciones Específicas para aplicarlo en Colombia

      Contexto y Localización

      Adaptar el sistema a las necesidades específicas de mujeres colombianas, considerando las barreras de acceso tecnológico y el limitado apoyo institucional en ciertos casos de VGD.

      Protocolo de Orientación

      Diseñar un protocolo que permita a las usuarias entender qué es la violencia digital, cómo proceder y con quién contactar para recibir apoyo.

      Confidencialidad y Privacidad

      Garantizar que el sistema no requiera información personal innecesaria y respete la privacidad de las usuarias, especialmente en contextos de violencia.

      Colaboración y Sostenibilidad

      Fomentar alianzas entre organizaciones feministas, instituciones locales y expertos en Inteligencia Artificial para asegurar la sostenibilidad del proyecto.

    3. Summary of feminist principles' framework for AI

      La Inteligencia Artificial puede ser una herramienta clave para abordar la VGD en Colombia mediante el desarrollo de chatbots o agentes conversacionales:

      Asesorar y guiar para proveer información sobre derechos, rutas de denuncia y acceso a apoyo legal, psicológico y emocional.

      Prevenir y detectar patrones de riesgo al analizar palabras clave, emojis o interacciones para identificar posibles crisis de violencia y generar alertas.

      Empoderar comunidades para permitir que las víctimas accedan a redes de apoyo y recursos de manera anónima y segura, respetando principios de privacidad y datos.

      Principios clave para el desarrollo de IA feminista

      De acuerdo con los principios propuestos por Juliana Guerra (2022) y basados en experiencias previas con chatbots en otros países, las soluciones de IA deben:

      Ser colaborativas y participativas para co-diseñarse con comunidades, activistas y expertas/os para reflejar las necesidades específicas del contexto colombiano.

      Incorporar conocimientos situados para reconocer las particularidades socioculturales y las corporalidades diversas de las personas usuarias.

      Garantizar privacidad y consentimiento al usar datos de manera transparente y proteger la identidad de las víctimas.

      Fomentar la autonomía para crear herramientas de código abierto y accesibles, evitando la dependencia exclusiva de instituciones públicas.

      Un chatbot inspirado en iniciativas como Maruchatbot o Soy Violetta podría ser diseñado en Colombia para:

      Brindar orientación en español y lenguas indígenas.

      Incorporar enfoques interseccionales que reconozcan las realidades de mujeres rurales, afrodescendientes y LGBTIQ+.

      Detectar riesgos mediante Inteligencia Artificial, pero sin almacenar información sensible innecesaria.

      Crear alianzas con organizaciones locales y académicas para garantizar sostenibilidad y contextualización.

    4. Chilean context

      En Colombia, la ausencia de datos sistematizados, políticas públicas específicas y mecanismos de apoyo institucional, al igual que en Chile, las mujeres enfrentan esta violencia de forma individualizada, sin acceso consistente a redes de apoyo o recursos adecuados. La situación se complica al considerar las diversas corporalidades y contextos sociales, como el de las mujeres rurales, afrodescendientes, indígenas y LGBTQ+, quienes enfrentan formas de violencia exacerbadas por su interseccionalidad.

      El país carece de un marco normativo sólido para enfrentar la VGD, a pesar de iniciativas legislativas recientes que abordan parcialmente el problema. Las denuncias en redes sociales, principal mecanismo utilizado por las víctimas, presentan limitaciones como la falta de seguimiento, la continuidad de los ataques y la opacidad de los procedimientos de las plataformas.

      La incorporación de Inteligencia Artificial puede transformar el abordaje de la VGD en Colombia con:

      Creación de sistemas de datos sistematizados

      Bases de datos integradas y centralizadas que permitan identificar patrones, tendencias y perfiles de agresores.

      Análisis predictivo para anticipar riesgos y mejorar los mecanismos de protección para las mujeres.

      Desarrollo de chatbots con enfoque feminista

      Prototipos como asistentes conversacionales que proporcionen orientación legal, psicológica y emocional, adaptados a los contextos regionales y culturales del país.

      Incorporación de traducción automática para lenguas indígenas y dialectos, garantizando accesibilidad en comunidades diversas.

      Fortalecimiento de redes de apoyo virtuales

      Promoción de iniciativas lideradas por colectivas feministas y activistas tecnológicas para diseñar herramientas que amplíen las capacidades de respuesta comunitaria.

      Creación de espacios seguros para compartir experiencias y buscar ayuda sin temor a represalias.

      Prevención mediante Inteligencia Artificial

      Campañas educativas automatizadas para informar sobre la VGD y empoderar a las mujeres en el uso seguro de tecnologías digitales.

      Principios feministas para el diseño de IA

      El diseño de estas herramientas debe incorporar principios feministas que cuestionen el extractivismo de datos y prioricen la privacidad y la seguridad de las usuarias. Además, deben considerar las corporalidades y experiencias diversas de las mujeres en Colombia, garantizando que las soluciones no perpetúen desigualdades estructurales.

      El desarrollo de soluciones basadas en Inteligencia Artificial, junto con políticas públicas adecuadas y la participación activa de mujeres en su diseño, puede ser un paso crucial para abordar la violencia de género digital en Colombia. Esto no solo contribuiría a la prevención y atención de casos, sino también a la creación de un entorno digital más seguro e inclusivo para todas las mujeres.

    5. Summary of Gender Digital Violence

      En Colombia, la violencia de género digital (VGD) no solo afecta a mujeres por su mera presencia en plataformas digitales, sino que se agrava cuando participan activamente en debates, liderazgos políticos o en la defensa de derechos humanos y la igualdad de género. Esta violencia, una extensión de la violencia de género offline, tiene profundas consecuencias en la vida personal, emocional y pública de las mujeres, afectando su identidad, dignidad, integridad física y psicológica, y su derecho a la libertad de expresión.

      La violencia política contra las mujeres, definida por la Organización de los Estados Americanos (OEA) como cualquier acción basada en el género que busca limitar o anular el ejercicio de sus derechos políticos, se manifiesta de forma recurrente en redes sociales. Estos espacios digitales, estratégicos para comunicadoras, activistas y lideresas, son utilizados para acoso, discursos de odio, ataques simbólicos y amenazas, con el objetivo de silenciar sus voces o inhibir su participación pública.

      El impacto de la VGD y la violencia política digital se evidencia en la autocensura, la eliminación de perfiles en redes sociales y el retiro del debate público, perpetuando las barreras de género existentes. Esto afecta especialmente a mujeres indígenas, afrodescendientes, rurales y LGBTQ+, cuyas corporalidades y experiencias de violencia están atravesadas por múltiples formas de discriminación.

      En Colombia, donde las desigualdades sociales y la violencia de género convergen con altos índices de violencia política, la Inteligencia Artificial podría desempeñar un papel esencial.

      Monitoreo de violencia digital

      Uso de Inteligencia Artificial para detectar patrones de discurso de odio, acoso y amenazas dirigidas a mujeres en redes sociales.

      Mapeo de las dinámicas de violencia en diferentes regiones y plataformas.

      Orientación personalizada

      Creación de chatbots que brinden apoyo inmediato a víctimas de VGD, incluyendo traducción automática a lenguas indígenas y regionales, adaptándose a las realidades pluriculturales del país.

      Provisión de información sobre recursos legales y psicológicos específicos para mujeres en riesgo.

      Prevención y sensibilización

      Implementación de campañas automatizadas y personalizadas para educar sobre la violencia de género digital y sus consecuencias, utilizando redes sociales para contrarrestar narrativas de odio.

      Ética e inclusión

      Cualquier solución tecnológica debe integrar un enfoque interseccional que considere las corporalidades y contextos diversos de las mujeres en Colombia, al respetar la privacidad y evitar prácticas extractivistas de datos. Además, es crucial incluir la participación activa de las mujeres afectadas en el diseño e implementación de estas herramientas, para garantizar su relevancia y efectividad.

      La traducción, las corporalidades y la Inteligencia Artificial, puede transformar el abordaje de la VGD en Colombia, fortaleciendo la resiliencia de las mujeres y garantizando espacios digitales más seguros. Sin embargo, para que estas soluciones sean sostenibles, deben estar acompañadas de políticas públicas, colaboración interinstitucional y compromiso social para erradicar las raíces estructurales de la violencia de género.

    6. La red Red de Investigación Feminista en Inteligencia artificial, f<a+i>r

      La violencia de género digital (VGD) en Colombia refleja las desigualdades y dinámicas de poder presentes en la sociedad, adaptadas al ámbito tecnológico. Este fenómeno no es estático, ha evolucionado junto con el desarrollo de las tecnologías y su uso social, al transformarse desde los inicios del Internet en 1990 hasta el contexto actual de redes sociales, dispositivos móviles e interconectividad masiva. La VGD engloba cualquier conducta, acción o comportamiento que implique agresiones contra mujeres, niñas y adolescentes, con una fuerte dimensión de género que perpetúa las desigualdades.

      La VGD ha sido reconocida por organismos internacionales como las Naciones Unidas y la Iniciativa Spotlight, que destacan el uso de tecnologías de la información y comunicación (TIC) como un medio que facilita, agrava o amplifica actos de violencia de género.

      Se identifica como cualquier acción basada en el género que cause daño físico, psicológico, económico o simbólico, instigada o asistida por tecnologías como celulares, Internet y redes sociales.

      En Colombia, como en otros países de América Latina, se han identificado entre 10 y 12 tipos de VGD, que incluye:

      Acceso no autorizado: Intervención o control de cuentas personales o dispositivos.

      Manipulación de información: Alteración o difusión de datos personales.

      Acoso y vigilancia: Seguimiento constante en línea.

      Divulgación de contenido íntimo sin consentimiento: Publicación de imágenes o información personal.

      Estas formas de violencia afectan de manera desproporcionada a las mujeres debido a los roles de género y las dinámicas de poder que se trasladan al espacio digital.

      La Inteligencia Artificial puede ser una herramienta crucial para abordar la VGD, especialmente en un país como Colombia, donde las desigualdades tecnológicas y sociales complican la identificación y respuesta a estos casos. Desde una posibilidad feminista e inclusiva, las siguientes aplicaciones son relevantes:

      Detección y prevención

      Uso de procesamiento de lenguaje natural (NLP) para identificar discursos de odio y amenazas en redes sociales.

      Análisis de patrones en datos para prevenir casos recurrentes y mapear perfiles de agresores.

      Orientación y apoyo a víctimas

      Creación de un chatbot diseñado para brindar atención inicial a mujeres víctimas de VGD, ofreciendo información sobre recursos legales, psicológicos y de seguridad.

      Traducción automática y adaptada para alcanzar a mujeres de diferentes regiones lingüísticas y culturales del país.

      Sistematización de casos

      Generación de bases de datos seguras para documentar incidentes y proponer políticas públicas basadas en evidencia.

      Posibilidades éticas y sociales

      Es fundamental que el uso de Inteligencia Artificial respete la privacidad y autonomía de las mujeres, evitando el extractivismo de datos y la revictimización. Además, su implementación debe ser sensible a las corporalidades, entendiendo que las experiencias de violencia están mediadas por factores como género, raza, clase y ubicación geográfica.

      La combinación del desarrollo tecnológico con una posibilidad feminista puede transformar la forma en que Colombia enfrenta la VGD. Esto requiere no solo innovación en Inteligencia Artificial, sino también colaboración entre el gobierno, la sociedad civil y organismos internacionales para garantizar que las soluciones sean inclusivas, éticas y efectivas.

    Annotators

    1. Proposed prototype

      El prototipo AymurAI, se inspira en el término quechua aymuray (tiempos de cosecha), propone un prototipo de Inteligencia Artificial para automatizar parcialmente la publicación y mantenimiento de datos abiertos en casos de violencia de género (VBG por su sigla en inglés). Aunque originalmente diseñado para los tribunales penales de CABA y México, su enfoque podría adaptarse al contexto colombiano, considerando los desafíos específicos de la justicia en este país, como las disparidades en infraestructura tecnológica, la necesidad de enfoque sensible al género y las dinámicas socioculturales complejas.

      Contexto Colombiano

      Corporalidades

      La justicia colombiana enfrenta retos particulares en la protección de las corporalidades de las víctimas de VBG. AymurAI podría ser una herramienta clave para garantizar que los datos sensibles sean anonimizados, protegiendo la identidad y contexto de las víctimas, mientras se recopilan datos estructurados sobre los casos para análisis y políticas públicas. Este enfoque fortalecería iniciativas locales como las comisarías de familia, las fiscalías y las líneas de atención a víctimas.

      Traducción y Localización Cultural

      Dado el multilingüismo y las diferencias culturales en Colombia con las lenguas indígenas y contextos rurales, sería crucial adaptar AymurAI para interpretar documentos en diversos idiomas locales, manteniendo su sensibilidad hacia las especificidades culturales. Además, los formatos comunes en los procesos judiciales colombianos (e.g., actas en Word o PDF) deberían integrarse al sistema para asegurar compatibilidad.

      Inteligencia Artificial y Justicia

      AymurAI aprovecharía técnicas como el reconocimiento de entidades nombradas (NER) y expresiones regulares para automatizar la extracción de datos relevantes de documentos legales. Este modelo puede capacitarse con datos de fallos judiciales colombianos, como los producidos por los juzgados especializados en VBG, para identificar patrones específicos en contextos nacionales.

      Análisis y transparencia de datos: El sistema podría ayudar a construir una base de datos abierta sobre casos de VBG en Colombia, promoviendo transparencia y permitiendo el análisis de tendencias que fortalezcan políticas públicas.

      Reducción de carga administrativa: AymurAI permitiría a los funcionarios judiciales automatizar tareas repetitivas como la anonimización de datos, mejorando la eficiencia del sistema judicial.

      Accesibilidad y equidad: Una interfaz sencilla aseguraría que incluso empleados judiciales sin conocimientos técnicos puedan operar el sistema, mejorando la inclusión en diferentes regiones del país.

      Retos en el Contexto Colombiano

      Infraestructura desigual: La conectividad limitada en áreas rurales podría ser un obstáculo; por ello, un sistema que funcione offline sería esencial.

      Protección de datos: Garantizar la seguridad y confidencialidad de la información judicial es crítico, especialmente en casos sensibles de VBG.

      Capacitación: Involucrar a los operadores judiciales en el uso de AymurAI, con énfasis en justicia de género y herramientas tecnológicas, será fundamental para su adopción efectiva.

      AymurAI podría ser una herramienta transformadora para el sistema judicial colombiano, combinando Inteligencia Artificial, sensibilidad cultural y un enfoque en la protección de las víctimas para avanzar hacia una justicia más eficiente, inclusiva y transparente.

    2. Our project seeks to effect change in the problem of GBV from a feminist, anti-technosolutionist perspective, which we expect to be transformative.

      Los riesgos de sesgos, falta de transparencia y consecuencias perjudiciales en la Inteligencia Artificial han sido ampliamente documentados. Frente a esto, el proyecto propone un enfoque feminista y colaborativo, usando la Inteligencia Artificial como herramienta de apoyo, no como sustituto del conocimiento humano, para abordar la violencia de género (GBV por su sigla en inglés) y fomentar la justicia social.

      Dentro de las corporalidades, se destaca la importancia de la participación humana, especialmente de expertos con conocimientos sobre desigualdades estructurales, para garantizar un diseño inclusivo y contextualizado. Esto se alinea con principios feministas que priorizan las intersecciones de género, raza y clase, y evita el uso de Inteligencia Artificial para vigilancia o control, optando por enfoques que respeten las diferencias corporales y contextos sociales.

      En cuanto al tema de la traducción, el proyecto utiliza modelos de procesamiento de lenguaje natural (NLP) adaptados a contextos hispanohablantes, como BETO, un modelo BERT entrenado en español. Este enfoque permite estructurar información de documentos legales, asegurando que los datos se procesen en su idioma y contexto originales, evitando sesgos asociados con modelos entrenados en inglés.

      La Inteligencia Artificial consiste en no automatizar decisiones judiciales ni predecir comportamientos, sino colaborar con expertos para estructurar datos legales y fomentar transparencia. Se inspira en enfoques feministas que abordan dinámicas de poder en sistemas sociotécnicos, subrayando la importancia de datos de alta calidad para informar políticas públicas basadas en evidencia y justicia abierta.

    3. harmful acts towards a person or a group of people based on their gender

      La intersección entre las corporalidades, la traducción de datos judiciales y el uso de Inteligencia Artificial en casos de violencia de género en América Latina. Muestra la falta de transparencia y datos accesibles sobre violencia de género contra mujeres y personas LGBTIQ+, lo que dificulta el acceso a la justicia y refuerza la desconfianza en los sistemas judiciales, especialmente en Argentina y México.

      Los autores proponen el desarrollo de AymurAI, un prototipo semi-automatizado que colabora con funcionarios judiciales para estructurar y anonimizar datos judiciales relacionados con la violencia de género antes de que escalen a feminicidios. Este proyecto, desde una perspectiva feminista interseccional y anti-soluccionista, busca diseñar tecnologías de Inteligencia Artificial que no sustituyan decisiones humanas, sino que apoyen la comprensión y visibilización de los diferentes tipos de violencia de género, incluyendo formas menos visibles como la violencia psicológica o económica.

      En cuanto a las corporalidades en el contexto social, la violencia de género afecta a mujeres, personas trans, no binarias y otras identidades de género, al manifestarse en dimensiones físicas, psicológicas, sexuales, económicas y políticas. La recopilación y apertura de datos judiciales sensibles permitiría identificar patrones de violencia, comprender las dinámicas de los sistemas judiciales y fomentar políticas públicas basadas en evidencia.

      Con respecto a la Inteligencia Artificial y la traducción de datos, la propuesta de AymurAI incluye el uso de Inteligencia Artificial para automatizar parcialmente el procesamiento de grandes volúmenes de datos judiciales. Lo que facilitaría la generación de conjuntos de datos anonimizados que, al ser revisados por expertos, contribuirían a la transparencia judicial, la colaboración intersectorial y el diseño de intervenciones más efectivas.

      El proyecto busca desafiar la instrumentalización de la Inteligencia Artificial como solución única, centrándose en garantizar la seguridad de los datos sensibles y en crear herramientas éticas que empoderen a los movimientos feministas del Sur Global.

    1. Paquete de R contiene funciones para carga y limpieza de datos, para calcular índices de estegomía bajo diferentes criterios de filtrado de tiempo y/o área, y para la generación de mapas estáticos e interactivos.

      Volver a redactar.

    1. Sedgley C, Buck G, Appelbe O. Prevalence of Enterococcus faecalisat multiple oral sites in endodontic patients using culture andPCR. J Endod 2006;32:104-9

      Sedgley Method?

    Annotators

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var(--gf-field-img-choice-check-ind-icon-size-md);--gf-field-pg-steps-number-color: rgba(17, 35, 55, 0.8);} "*" indicates required fields .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Open Sans', sans-serif; background-image: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-size: auto; background-position: center center; .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf input, .ao2gf textarea, .ao2gf select{ background-color: #FFFFFF; border-color: #CCCCCC; border-width: 1px; color: ; font-size: inherit; font-family: inherit; } .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf input:focus, .ao2gf textarea:focus, .ao2gf select:focus{ border-color: #3B99FC; } .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf input.ao2gf-error, .ao2gf textarea.ao2gf-error, .ao2gf select.ao2gf-error{ border-color: #FF0000; border-width: 1px; } .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf span.ao2gf-error-message{ color: #FF0000; font-size: 11px; } .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf ::-webkit-input-placeholder { color: darkgrey; font-size: inherit; font-family: inherit; text-align: inherit; } .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf ::-moz-placeholder { color: darkgrey; font-size: inherit; font-family: inherit; text-align: inherit; } .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf :-ms-input-placeholder { color: darkgrey; font-size: inherit; font-family: inherit; text-align: inherit; } .ao2gf-848d016b-1834-4191-98c4-2e9c48ba54a2.ao2gf :-moz-placeholder { color: darkgrey; font-size: inherit; font-family: inherit; text-align: inherit; } .ao2gf_input_672f909ba8bac { background-color: rgb(57, 155, 55); background-image: none; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-size: auto; background-position: center center; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); border-radius: 6px; display: inline-block; text-decoration: none; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; border-style: solid; border-color: transparent; border-width: 0px; padding: 10px; } First Name*Last Name*Email Address* Company NameCompany Name

      Labeled Forms: The forms on Eco Canada are well-labeled, which I think will allow screen readers to correctly identify input fields (name, email, company, etc) and guide users through the process. This is an essential feature that ensures everyone can complete forms without confusion and join the Eco Canada community.

  3. stylo.ecrituresnumeriques.ca stylo.ecrituresnumeriques.ca
    1. « Ô coutumes avides de richesses, comme elles outragent la pauvreté

      D'où vient cette traduction? Elle est inexacte. Le sens est "Ô vous qui avez la plus grande part de la richesse, combien vous faites du mal à la pauvreté à vous seuls" À moins d'adopter la leçon νόμοι au lieu de μόνοι ?

    1. Who is the AI innovation economy for?

      La implementación de la Inteligencia Artificial en procesos públicos y privados tiene el potencial de amplificar o mitigar estas desigualdades:

      Inclusión en el diseño de Inteligencia Artificial ya que las comunidades marginadas deben participar activamente en la creación de datasets y sistemas de IA que respeten su identidad, necesidades y derechos.

      Fomento de la equidad porque la contratación pública puede usarse como herramienta para corregir desigualdades estructurales, exigiendo la participación de empresas que prioricen la diversidad y la justicia social en sus procesos tecnológicos.

      La riqueza lingüística de Colombia, que incluye lenguas indígenas y criollas, es un recurso invaluable que debe ser integrado en el desarrollo de IA:

      Crear bases de datos que incluyan lenguas como el wayuunaiki o nasa yuwe puede garantizar que las tecnologías no excluyan a comunidades no hispanohablantes.

      La traducción y localización de los procesos de contratación y regulación de Inteligencia Artificial permitirán a más sectores de la población comprender y participar en estos procesos.

      La contratación pública es una herramienta poderosa para modelar la economía de la innovación y promover la responsabilidad en el desarrollo de Inteligencia Artificial.

      Transparencia y rendición de cuentas

      La falta de transparencia en la contratación de la Inteligencia Artificial puede perpetuar desigualdades. Colombia puede adoptar medidas como:

      Creación de registros algorítmicos: Similar a las iniciativas de Ámsterdam y Helsinki, registrar y publicar información sobre los algoritmos usados en servicios públicos.

      Publicación de contratos de la Inteligencia Artificial: Hacer accesibles al público detalles clave de los contratos gubernamentales, como los estándares éticos que las empresas deben cumplir.

      Auditorías independientes: Garantizar que las tecnologías contratadas respeten los derechos humanos y eviten impactos negativos en poblaciones vulnerables.

      Inclusión y diversidad en la contratación pública

      Requisitos de diversidad: Exigir que las empresas contratadas para desarrollar una Inteligencia Artificial demuestren compromiso con principios de equidad, diversidad e inclusión.

      Incentivos a comunidades subrepresentadas: Promover la participación de pequeñas empresas lideradas por mujeres, indígenas o afrodescendientes en licitaciones tecnológicas.

      Regulación ética en el desarrollo de IA

      Estándares obligatorios de ética: Implementar marcos legales para regular las prácticas éticas de las empresas proveedoras de IA, como un estándar colombiano de impacto algorítmico (similar al AIA en Canadá).

      Cooperación internacional: Participar en iniciativas globales como GPAI para fomentar la responsabilidad en el desarrollo y despliegue de IA, asegurando que las empresas cumplan estándares internacionales.

      Principios feministas y justicia social en la Inteligencia Artificial colombiana

      La integración de principios feministas en la contratación y desarrollo de la Inteligencia Artificial puede garantizar que las tecnologías beneficien a todos los sectores de la población:

      Contratación equitativa: Diseñar sistemas de e-procurement que prioricen la contratación de empresas lideradas por mujeres y otras minorías históricamente excluidas.

      Reparación histórica: Usar la contratación pública para corregir desigualdades estructurales, asignando recursos a proyectos que beneficien a comunidades marginadas.

    1. three essential recommendations for building equality from scratch when designing e-procurement systems: civic participation, automation of reparation rules, and the constant improvement of the e-procurement platforms:

      En Colombia, las comunidades indígenas, afrodescendientes y campesinas enfrentan barreras estructurales que limitan su acceso a la participación económica y política, agravadas por la desigualdad en la distribución de recursos tecnológicos.

      La implementación de sistemas de contratación pública automatizados (e-procurement) en Colombia podría:

      Promover la participación activa de mujeres, personas con discapacidades y grupos étnicos en la lista de proveedores.

      Compensar desigualdades históricas al aplicar reglas de reparación que prioricen a las comunidades marginalizadas en la asignación de contratos.

      Por ejemplo, podrían diseñarse mecanismos para priorizar la contratación de mujeres rurales y pequeñas cooperativas lideradas por minorías en sectores como la agricultura o la tecnología.

      Colombia tiene una rica diversidad lingüística con lenguas indígenas, criollas y el español. Para que la Inteligencia Artificial sea verdaderamente inclusiva, es crucial desarrollar datasets localizados y traducir contenidos a lenguas como el wayuunaiki, emberá o nasa yuwe.

      Garantizar que las comunidades no hispanohablantes puedan participar en procesos de contratación pública.

      Reducir el sesgo en la Inteligencia Artificial al incorporar datos lingüísticos y culturales diversos en el entrenamiento de algoritmos.

      Tal como se observa en iniciativas como la plataforma Common Voice en África, Colombia podría promover proyectos similares para recopilar y digitalizar lenguas locales, fortaleciendo la inclusión en sistemas automatizados de gobernanza.

      Inspirándose en el enfoque presentado, Colombia puede utilizar Inteligencia Artificial y e-procurement para mejorar los procesos de contratación pública con énfasis en equidad e inclusión:

      1. Participación cívica

      Crear plataformas abiertas donde las comunidades puedan participar activamente en el diseño y mejora de los sistemas.

      Incluir mecanismos de retroalimentación para que las decisiones sean transparentes y respondan a las necesidades locales.

      1. Reglas de reparación automatizadas:

      Implementar medidas temporales que prioricen a mujeres, minorías étnicas y personas con discapacidad en los procesos de contratación.

      Diseñar incentivos económicos para cooperativas lideradas por mujeres y comunidades indígenas, promoviendo la redistribución equitativa de recursos públicos.

      1. Mejora constante de los sistemas:

      Garantizar que las plataformas sean de código abierto para permitir auditorías y mejoras colaborativas.

      Documentar públicamente los cambios realizados en los sistemas, asegurando que respondan a las demandas ciudadanas.

      Principios feministas en la tecnología gubernamental

      Adoptar un enfoque feminista en la implementación de tecnologías emergentes en Colombia puede:

      Promover la igualdad de género al incorporar principios de equidad desde el diseño de Inteligencia Artificial.

      Aumentar la transparencia diseñar sistemas que prioricen los derechos humanos y eviten prácticas discriminatorias.

      Fortalecer la gobernanza democrática al integrar la perspectiva de género en las políticas públicas de contratación.

      Por ejemplo, los sistemas de contratación pública podrían evaluar automáticamente la representación de género entre los proveedores, asegurando una distribución justa de oportunidades.

    1. the most critical issues to harness innovation within the AI ecosystem

      La diversidad corporal en Colombia abarca una amplia gama de experiencias, marcadas por la riqueza multicultural y la interacción de comunidades indígenas, afrodescendientes, campesinas y urbanas. Esta diversidad también está entrelazada con el acceso desigual a la tecnología, la salud y la educación, especialmente en áreas rurales.

      El uso de la Inteligencia Artificial para abordar problemas sociales, como se ha hecho en África, puede inspirar iniciativas en Colombia. Por ejemplo:

      La Inteligencia Artificial para diagnósticos tempranos de enfermedades como el cáncer de mama o la tuberculosis, adaptados a los contextos rurales colombianos, donde los servicios médicos son limitados.

      Modelos de Inteligencia Artificial para identificar plagas y enfermedades en cultivos de importancia para las comunidades rurales, como el café, el plátano o el maíz.

      Considerar las diversidades corporales al diseñar soluciones que sean accesibles para todas las personas, independientemente de sus capacidades físicas o contexto social.

      La traducción en Colombia puede desempeñar un papel fundamental en la creación y el uso de datos localizados para entrenar a la Inteligencia Artificial. Similar a la inclusión de Luganda en el proyecto Common Voice en África, se pueden desarrollar iniciativas para recopilar y traducir datos en lenguas indígenas colombianas, como el wayuunaiki, nasa yuwe o emberá.

      Ampliar la representación de las lenguas indígenas en aplicaciones de la Inteligencia Artificial, como asistentes virtuales o sistemas de reconocimiento de voz.

      Ayudar a preservar y revitalizar estas lenguas al integrarlas en tecnologías modernas.

      Generar datasets lingüísticos diversos que fomenten el desarrollo de Inteligencia Artificial inclusivas, contextualizadas y éticamente responsables.

      La Inteligencia Artificial para el bien social descrito en África puede adaptarse al contexto colombiano, aprovechando la “tubería de datos a impacto” para resolver problemas reales.

      La identificación de problemas debe ser participativa, integrando a las comunidades afectadas.

      Soluciones para mejorar la logística de distribución de alimentos en regiones apartadas.

      Inteligencia Artificial para identificar y mitigar riesgos ambientales en zonas afectadas por la minería ilegal o la deforestación.

      Es crucial desarrollar datasets localizados y representativos para evitar sesgos en los modelos de Inteligencia Artificial.

      Bases de datos agrícolas que reflejen las particularidades de los ecosistemas colombianos.

      Datos de salud adaptados a las diversidades genéticas y culturales del país.

      El diseño de IA debe basarse en el entendimiento del contexto local y cultural.

      Adaptar modelos a las necesidades específicas de comunidades indígenas y afrodescendientes.

      Integrar saberes tradicionales en soluciones tecnológicas, reconociendo el conocimiento colectivo y las prácticas ancestrales.

      La educación en ética de la Inteligencia Artificial es esencial para formar profesionales conscientes de los impactos sociales y culturales de sus creaciones. Además, deben establecerse directrices claras para implementar principios éticos en el desarrollo de tecnologías, fomentando prácticas inclusivas y no extractivas.

    1. The Oracle for Transfeminist Technologies

      Las herramientas especulativas como The Oracle for Transfeminist Technologies podrían inspirar prácticas y tecnologías que respeten y celebren la pluralidad de cuerpos y subjetividades.

      En un país con desigualdades, las tecnologías transfeministas podrían abordar temas como el acceso a la salud, la educación y la representación, diseñando soluciones inclusivas que desafíen la discriminación estructural basada en el cuerpo, el género o la sexualidad.

      La traducción en Colombia desempeñaría un papel crucial en la preservación y promoción de lenguas indígenas, afrodescendientes y criollas.

      Desde una posibilidad transfeminista, la traducción podría ir más allá del lenguaje, integrando valores de justicia social y respeto por las diversidades. Por ejemplo, el acto de traducir no solo debería ser lingüístico, sino también cultural, incorporando sensibilidades hacia las experiencias de género y sexualidad que desafían las normas hegemónicas.

      The Oracle for Transfeminist Technologies puede inspirar la creación de herramientas y metodologías que permitan a las comunidades marginadas de Colombia expresar sus narrativas y cosmovisiones de manera auténtica, respetando su diversidad cultural y corporal.

      En Colombia, la Inteligencia Artificial podría tener el potencial de ser una herramienta transformadora, pero debe ser desarrollada con un enfoque ético y transfeminista para evitar reproducir dinámicas de exclusión.

      El uso de valores transfeministas en el diseño de tecnologías podría guiar el desarrollo de sistemas que promuevan:

      Garantizar que la la Inteligencia Artificial no excluya a personas trans, no binarias o pertenecientes a comunidades indígenas y afrodescendientes.

      Co-crear tecnodiversidades con las comunidades, adaptando los valores y necesidades locales, al igual que lo hace The Oracle for Transfeminist Technologies en sus talleres participativos.

      Reconocer que los datos no son neutrales, y fomentar prácticas de recolección y uso de datos que respeten la autonomía y dignidad de las personas y comunidades.

      The Oracle for Transfeminist Technologies, demuestra cómo las tecnodiversidades pueden diseñarse desde valores transfeministas. En el contexto colombiano, estas metodologías podrían adaptarse para abordar problemáticas locales, como:

      La visibilización de experiencias trans y no binarias en el acceso a derechos.

      El diseño de plataformas que amplifiquen voces diversas, en especial las de personas marginadas por su género, raza o etnicidad.

      La creación de tecnologías que fomenten redes de apoyo y solidaridad entre comunidades diversas.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer 1:

      Comment 1: Within the scope of the current work there are no major weaknesses. That said, the authors themselves note pressing questions beyond the scope of this study that remain unanswered. For instance, the mechanistic nature of the interactions between FMO-4 and the other players in this story, for example in terms of direct protein-protein interactions, is not at all understood yet.

      We thank the reviewer for the positive review, and fully agree and acknowledge that there are unanswered questions for future studies that are beyond the scope of this manuscript.

      Reviewer 2:

      Comment 1: The effects of carbachol and EDTA on intracellular calcium levels are inferred, especially in the tissues where fmo-4 is acting. Validating that these agents and fmo-4 itself have an impact on calcium in relevant subcellular compartments is important to support conclusions on how fmo-4 regulates and responds to calcium.

      We thank the reviewer for this important suggestion. We agree that carbachol and EDTA can be broad agents and validating that they are altering calcium levels is very useful. While this is technically challenging, we attempted to address this by using neuronally expressed GCaMP7f calcium indicator worms and measuring their GFP fluorescence upon exposure to carbachol and EDTA. Assessing both short term and long term exposure to these agents, we were able to show that carbachol increases GFP fluorescence, indicating an increase in calcium levels, and EDTA decreases GFP fluorescence, indicating a decrease in calcium levels. Unfortunately, because FMO-4 is not neuronally expressed, we were not able to test the effects of FMO-4 on calcium in this strain, which would require hypodermal expression and possibly short-term modification of fmo-4 expression to test. We have made sure to temper our language about the indirect measures we used.

      Comment 2: Experiments are generally reliant on RNAi. While in most cases experiments reveal positive results, indicating RNAi efficacy, key conclusions could be strengthened with the incorporation of mutants.

      We appreciate and value this suggestion and agree that mutants could be helpful to strengthen our conclusions. We address this caveat in the discussion of the revised manuscript. We explain that we were concerned about knocking out key calcium regulating genes like itr-1 and mcu-1 that either already result in some level of sickness in the worms when knocked down (itr-1) or could lead to confounding metabolic changes if knocked out. We do find that our RNAi lifespan results are robust and reproducible, but we also understand and recognize the caveats that come with using RNAi knockdown instead of full deletion mutants.

      Reviewer 3:

      Comment 1: no obvious transcriptomic evidence supporting a link between fmo-4 and calcium signaling: either for knockout worms or fmo-4 overexpressing strains.

      We thank the reviewer for this feedback. While there is some transcriptomic evidence, we agree that it is not overwhelming evidence. We do think that this evidence, combined with the phenotype observed under thapsigargin (i.e., significant reduction in worm size and significant delay or prevention of development), in addition to the genetic connections to calcium regulation, provide additional compelling evidence that FMO-4 interacts with calcium signaling.

      Comment 2: no direct measures of alterations in calcium flux, signalling or binding that strongly support a connection with fmo-4.

      As described in reviewer 2 comment 1, we have successfully used GCaMP7f worms to assess calcium flux upon exposure to carbachol and EDTA. This approach confirmed the changes in calcium expected from these compounds. Unfortunately, because FMO-4 is not neuronally expressed, we were not able to test the effects of FMO-4 on calcium in this strain, which would require hypodermal expression and possibly short-term modification of fmo-4 expression to test. We have made sure to temper our language about the indirect measures we used.

      Comment 3: no measures of mitochondrial morphology or activity that strongly support a connection with fmo-4.

      This is a great point, and something we are currently working on to include for a future manuscript. 

      Comment 4: lack of a complete model that places fmo-4 function downstream of DR and mTOR signalling (first Results section), fmo-2 (second Results section) and at the same time explains connection with calcium signalling.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful feedback. We have included a more complete working model in our revision.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer 1:

      Comment 1: "We utilized fmo-4 (ok294) knockout (KO) animals on five conditions reported to extend lifespan in C. elegans." Here I believe "fmo-4 (ok294)" should be "fmo-4(ok294)". (No space).

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful revision. We have made this change as suggested.

      Comment 2: "Wild-type (WT) worms on DR experience a ~35% lifespan extension compared to fed WT worms, but when fmo-4 is knocked out this extension is reduced to ~10% and this interaction is significant by cox regression (p-value < 4.50e-6)." Here "cox regression" should be "Cox regression".

      We have made this change as suggested.

      Comment 3: "Having established this role, we continued lifespan analyses of fmo-4 KO worms exposed to RNAi knockdown of the S6-kinase gene rsks-1 (mTOR signaling), the von hippel lindau gene vhl-1 (hypoxic signaling), the insulin receptor daf-2 (insulin-like signaling), and the cytochrome c reductase gene cyc-1 (mitochondrial electron transport chain, cytochrome c reductase) (Fig 1C-F)." Here "von hippel lindau" should be "Von Hippel-Lindau".

      We have made this change as suggested.

      Comment 4: In three instances in the caption of Figure 5, the "4" in fmo-4 is not italicized when it should be.

      We have made this change as suggested.

      Comment 5: In two instances in the caption of Figure 7, the "4" in fmo-4 is not italicized when it should be, and in one instance in the caption of Figure 7, the "6" in atf-6 is not italicized when it should be.

      We have made this change as suggested.

      Comment 6: "Supplemental Data 3 provides the results of the Log-rank test and Cox regression analysis, which were run in Rstudio." Here Rstudio should be RStudio.

      We have made this change as suggested.

      Comment 7: In the references, within article titles italicization (e.g. of Caenorhabditis elegans) is frequently missing. While this is often an artifact introduced by reference management software, it should be corrected in the final manuscript.

      We thank the reviewer for all the helpful revision suggestions. We have made sure all the references are properly italicized where necessary.

      Reviewer 2:

      Comment 1: While FMO-4 is clearly placed in the ER calcium pathway genetically, the molecular mechanism by which FMO-4 would alter ER calcium is unclear. Notably, Tuckowski et al. highlight this gap in the discussion as well.

      We thank the reviewer for identifying this important caveat. We hope to address the molecular mechanism by which FMO-4 alters ER calcium in upcoming projects.

      Comment 2: Determining whether overexpression of catalytically dead FMO-4 or introduction of an inactivating point mutant into the endogenous locus phenocopy FMO-4 OE and KO animals would help distinguish between mechanisms involving protein-protein interactions or downstream metabolic regulation.

      We thank the reviewer for this valuable suggestion. This is an experiment we are hoping to do in the near future to better understand molecular mechanisms and protein-protein interactions.

      Reviewer 3:

      Comment 1: When measuring the effect of thapsigargin on development of fmo-4 mutants it would be great to use a developmental assay rather than quantifying normalized worm area. Also please add scale bars to Figure 3G and 4H, it seems that fmo-4 overexpression decreases worm size even in control conditions, clarify if this is the case.

      We thank the reviewer for this feedback. In addition to quantifying normalized worm area in Figure 3G-I, we have added a developmental assay (Figure 3J) that shows the development time of wild-type worms on DMSO or thapsigargin as well as the fmo-4 OE worms on DMSO or thapsigargin. These data validate that the fmo-4 OE worm development is either delayed significantly or even prevented when the worms are treated with thapsigargin.

      We have added scale bars to Figure 3G and 4H as suggested.

      We also appreciate the reviewer’s observation of the fmo-4 overexpression worms appearing smaller than wild-type worms in control conditions. We looked through the replicates and found that just one replicate showed a significant decrease in worm size, as observed in our unrevised manuscript. We repeated this experiment twice more to gather more data and determined that the fmo-4 overexpression worms were ultimately not significantly different in size compared to wild-type worms. We have included the new images and quantifications in Figure 3G-I and Figure 4H-J in the revised manuscript.

      Comment 2: correct or replace Supplementary Table 2, which is not showing a DAVID analysis as the title and text would suggest. We should see biological/molecular processes, effect sizes, p-values, ...

      We thank the reviewer for identifying this issue. We have added more detail to the Supplementary Table 2 so that it is clearer what is being shown in each tab.

      Comment 3: clarify the data presented in Supplementary Data 2 because it does not clearly explain what is shown

      This is a great point, and we have added more detail to the Supplementary Data 2 to make sure the data are more clearly explained in each tab.

      Comment 4: in Figure 5B the fluorescent images do not seem to reflect the quantification in panel 5C.

      Thank you for this feedback. We re-analyzed our data to make sure the proper fluorescent images are included with their matching quantifications in Figure 5B-C.

      Comment 5: where is Supplementary Data 3?

      We thank the reviewer for noticing this. Supplementary Data 3 was accidentally missing from the first submission, and has now been added.

      Comment 6: conceptually the last results section (regarding atf-6) does not add much to the story, I would consider removing these results

      We appreciate this feedback. We have decided to keep Figure 7 because we think it helps to validate fmo-4’s role in calcium movement from the ER. While we show genetic interactions between fmo-4 and key genes involved in calcium regulation (crt-1, itr-1, and mcu-1), we think that showing how fmo-4 also interacts with atf-6, a known regulator of calcium homeostasis, strengthens and supports the genetic mechanisms of fmo-4 proposed in this manuscript.

      Comment 7: the model proposed in Figure 7E is not convincingly supported by the results:<br /> o the arrows connecting atf-6, fmo-4 and crt-1 (calreticulin) suggest that fmo-4 is downstream of atf-6 and upstream of crt-1: Berkowitz 2020 showed that atf-6 knockdown downregulates calreticulin, so unless the authors show that this downregulation is mediated directly by fmo-4, the more likely explanation is that atf-6 knockdown affects calcium levels which in turn induces fmo-4 expression.

      We thank the reviewer for this helpful feedback. We have addressed this by updating our proposed model. We used a solid arrow leading from the reduction of atf-6 to induction of fmo-4, as this is supported by our data in Figure 7A-B. We then used dashed arrows between fmo-4 and crt-1 as well as between atf-6 and crt-1 to indicate that more data is needed to clarify this part of the pathway.

      Comment 8: Avoid pointing at a mitochondrial connection in the title as the only evidence supporting this interaction comes from the mcu-1 RNAi epistasis.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s suggestion. We added another piece of evidence suggesting an interaction between fmo-4 and the mitochondria to Supplementary Figure 7G-H. Here we show that while fmo-4 OE worms are resistant to paraquat stress, knocking down vdac-1 (a calcium regulator located in the outer mitochondrial membrane), abrogates this effect. We have kept mitochondria in our title but have made sure to temper our language in the main text to avoid pointing to a strong mitochondrial connection, since we have two pieces of evidence connecting fmo-4 to the mitochondria.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The authors' research group had previously demonstrated the release of large multivesicular body-like structures by human colorectal cancer cells. This manuscript expands on their findings, revealing that this phenomenon is not exclusive to colorectal cancer cells but is also observed in various other cell types, including different cultured cell lines, as well as cells in the mouse kidney and liver. Furthermore, the authors argue that these large multivesicular body-like structures originate from intracellular amphisomes, which they term "amphiectosomes." These amphiectosomes release their intraluminal vesicles (ILVs) through a "torn-bag mechanism." Finally, the authors demonstrate that the ILVs of amphiectosomes are either LC3B positive or CD63 positive. This distinction implies that the ILVs either originate from amphisomes or multivesicular bodies, respectively.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript reports a potential origin of extracellular vesicle (EV) biogenesis. The reported observations are intriguing.

      Weaknesses:

      It is essential to note that the manuscript has issues with experimental designs and lacks consistency in the presented data. Here is a list of the major concerns:

      (1) The authors culture the cells in the presence of fetal bovine serum (FBS) in the culture medium. Given that FBS contains a substantial amount of EVs, this raises a significant issue, as it becomes challenging to differentiate between EVs derived from FBS and those released by the cells. This concern extends to all transmission electron microscopy (TEM) images (Figure 1, 2P-S, S5, Figure 4 P-U) and the quantification of EV numbers in Figure 3. The authors need to use an FBS-free cell culture medium.

      Although FBS indeed contains bovine EVs, however, the presence of very large multivesicular EVs (amphiectosomes) that our manuscript focuses on has never been observed and reported. For reported size distributions of EVs in FBS, please find a few relevant references below:

      PMID: 29410778, PMID: 33532042, PMID: 30940830 and PMID: 37298194

      All the above publications show that the number of lEVs > 350-500 nm is negligible in FBS. The average diameter of MV-lEVs (amphiectosomes) described in our manuscript is around 1.00-1.50 micrometer.

      Reviewer #1: These papers evaluated the effectiveness of various methods to eliminate EVs from FBS, emphasizing the challenges associated with the presence of EVs in FBS. They also caution against using FBS in EV studies due to these issues. However, I did not find a clear indication regarding the size distributions of EVs in FBS in these papers.

      Please provide accurate reference supporting the claim that 'lEVs > 350-500 nm are negligible in FBS.' The papers cited by the authors do not address this specific point.

      In the revised manuscript, we addressed the point that due to sterile filtering of FBS, it cannot contain large >0.22 µm EVs

      Our response to Reviewer #1 point 2. When we demonstrated the TEM of isolated EVs, we consistently used serum- free conditioned medium (Fig2 P-S, Fig2S5 J, O) as described previously (Németh et al 2021, PMID: 34665280).

      Reviewer #1: This is an important point that is not mentioned in the original main text, figure legend or method. Please address.

      We agree and we apologize for it. We added this information to the revised manuscript.

      Our response to Reviewer #1 point 3. Our TEM images show cells captured in the process of budding and scission of large multivesicular EVs excluding the possibility that these structures could have originated from FBS.

      Reviewer #1: These images may also depict the engulfment of EVs in FBS. Hence, it is crucial to utilize EV-free or EV-depleted FBS.

      As we mentioned earlier, we added the information to the revised manuscript that sterile filtering of the FBS presumably removed particles >0.22 µm EVs

      Our response to Reviewer #1 point 4. In addition, in our confocal analysis, we studied Palm-GFP positive, cell-line derived MV-lEVs. Importantly, in these experiments, FBS-derived EVs are non-fluorescent, therefore, the distinction between GFP positive MV-lEVs and FBS-derived EVs was evident.

      Reviewer #1: I agree that these fluorescent-labeled assays conclusively indicate that the MV-lEVs are originating from the cells. However, the images of concerns are the non- fluorescent-labeled images in (Figure 1, 2P-S, S5, Figure 4 P-U and Figure 3). The MV-lEVs may derive from both the cells and FBS.

      Please see above our response to points 1-3.

      Our response to Reviewer #1 point 5. In addition, culturing cells in FBS-free medium (serum starvation) significantly affects autophagy. Given that in our study, we focused on autophagy related amphiectosome secretion, we intentionally chose to use FBS supplemented medium.

      Reviewer #1 If this is a concern, the authors should use EV-depletive FBS.

      As we discussed above, sterile filtration of FBS removes particles >0.22 µm. In addition, based on our preliminary experiments, EV-depleted serum may effect cell physiology. 

      Our response to Reviewer #1 point 6. Even though the authors of this manuscript are not familiar with the technological details how FBS is processed before commercialization, it is reasonable to assume that the samples are subjected to sterile filtration (through a 0.22 micron filter) after which MV-lEVs cannot be present in the commercial FBS samples.

      Reviewer #1This is a fair comment that needs to be included in the manuscript.

      As you suggested, this comment is now included in the revised manuscript

      (2) The data presented in Figure 2 is not convincingly supportive of the authors' conclusion. The authors argue that "...CD81 was present in the plasma membrane-derived limiting membrane (Figures 2B, D, F), while CD63 was only found inside the MV-lEVs (Fig. 2A, C, E)." However, in Figure 2G, there is an observable CD63 signal in the limiting membrane (overlapping with the green signals), and in Figure 2J, CD81 also exhibits overlap with MV-IEVs.

      Both CD63 and CD81 are tetraspanins known to be present both in the membrane of sEVs and in the plasma membrane of cells (for references, please see Uniprot subcellular location maps: https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/P08962/entry#subcellular_location https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/P60033/entry#subcellular_location). However, according the feedback of the reviewer, for clarity, we will delete the implicated sentence from the text.

      Reviewer #1 Please also justify the statement questioned in (3) as these arguments are interconnected.

      We hope you find our above responses to your comment acceptable.

      (3) Following up on the previous concern, the authors argue that CD81 and CD63 are exclusively located on the limiting membrane and MV-IEVs, respectively (Figure 2-A-M). However, in lines 104-106, the authors conclude that "The simultaneous presence of CD63, CD81, TSG101, ALIX, and the autophagosome marker LC3B within the MV-lEVs..." This statement indicates that CD63 and CD81 co-localize to the MV-IEVs. The authors need to address this apparent discrepancy and provide an explanation.

      There must be a misunderstanding because we did not claim or implicate in the text that “CD81 and CD63 are exclusively located on the limiting membrane and MV-IEVs”. Here we studied co-localization of the above proteins in the case intraluminal vesicles (ILVs). In Fig 2. we did not show any analysis of limiting membrane co-localization.

      Reviewer #1 I have indicated that this statement is found in lines 104-106, where the authors argue, 'The simultaneous presence of CD63, CD81, TSG101, ALIX, and the autophagosome marker LC3B within the MV-lEVs...' If the authors acknowledge the inaccuracy of this statement, please provide a justification for this argument.

      For clarity, we modified the description of data shown in Fig2 in the revised manuscript.

      (4) The specificity of the antibodies used in Figure 2 should be validated through knockout or knockdown experiments. Several of the antibodies used in this figure detect multiple bands on western blots, raising doubts about their specificity. Verification through additional experimental approaches is essential to ensure the reliability and accuracy of all the immunostaining data in this manuscript.

      We will consider this suggestion during the revision of the manuscript.

      Reviewer #1:Please do so.

      We carefully considered the suggestion, but we realized that it was not feasible for us to perform gene silencing in the case of all our used antibodies before resubmission of our revised manuscript. However, we repeated the Western blot for mouse anti-CD81 (Invitrogen MAA5-13548) and replaced the previous Western blot by it in the revised manuscript (Fig.2-S4H)

      (5) In Figures 2P-R, the morphology of the MV-IEVs does not resemble those shown in Figures 1-A, H, and D, indicating a notable inconsistency in the data.

      EM images in Figure2 P-R show sEVs separated from serum-free conditioned media as opposed to MV-lEVs, which were in situ captured in fixed tissue cultures (Fig1). Therefore, the two EV populations necessarily have different size and structure. Furthermore, Fig. 1 shows images of ultrathin sections while in Figure 2P-R, we used a negative-positive contrasting of intact sEV-s without embedding and sectioning.

      (6) There are no loading controls provided for any of the western blot data.

      Not even the latest MISEV 2023 guidelines give recommendations for proper loading control for separated EVs in Western blot (MISEV 2023 , DOI: 10.1002/jev2.12404 PMID: 38326288). Here we applied our previously developed method (PMID: 37103858), which in our opinion, is the most reliable approach to be used for sEV Western blotting. For whole cell lysates, we used actin as loading control (Fig3-S2B).

      Reviewer #1: The blots referenced here (Fig2-S3; Fig2-S4B; Fig3-S2B) were conducted using total cell lysates, not EV extracts. Only one blot in Fig3-S2B includes an actin control. All remaining blots should incorporate actin controls for consistency.

      Fig2-S3 (corresponding to Fig2-S4 in the revised manuscript) only shows reactivity of the used antibodies. This Western blot is not intended to serve as a basis of any quantitative conclusions. Fig2-S4 (corresponding to Fig2-S5 in the revised manuscript) includes the actin control. Fig3-S2B shows the complete membrane, which was cut into 4 pieces, and the immune reactivity of different antibodies was tested. The actin band was included on the anti-LC3B blot. For clarity, we rephrased the figure legend.

      Additionally, for Figures 2-S4B, the authors should run the samples from lanes i-iii in a single gel.

      Please note that in Figure 2- S4B, we did run a single gel, and the blot was cut into 4 pieces, which were tested by anti-GFP, anti-RFP, anti-LC3A and anti-LC3B antibodies. Full Western blots are shown in Fig.3_S2 B, and lanes “1”, “2” and “3” correspond to “i”, “ii” and “iii” in Fig.2-S4, respectively.

      Reviewer #1: In the original Figure 2- S4B, the blots were sectioned into 12 pieces. If lanes "i," "ii," and "iii" were run on the same blot, the authors are advised to eliminate the grids between these lanes.

      Grids separating the lanes have been eliminated on Fig.2_S4 (now Fig.2_S5 in the revised manuscript).

      (7) In Figure 2-S4, is there co-localization observed between LC3RFP (LC3A?) with other MV-IFV markers? How about LC3B? Does LC3B co-localize with other MV-IFV markers?

      In Supplementary Figure 2-S4, we showed successful generation of HEK293T-PalmGFP-LC3RFP cell line. In this case we tested the cells, and not the released MV-lEVs. LC3A co-localized with the RFP signal as expected.

      Reviewer #1: Does LC3RFP colocalize with MV-IFV markers in HEK293T-PalmGFP-LC3RFP cell line? This experiment aims to clarify the conclusion made in lines 104-106, where the authors assert that 'The concurrent existence of CD63, CD81, TSG101, ALIX, and the autophagosome marker LC3B within the MV-lEVs...'

      In the case of PalmGFP-LC3RFP cells, LC3-RFP is overexpressed. Simultaneous assessment of this overexpressed protein with non-overexpressed, fluorescent antibod-detected molecules proved to be challenging because of spectral overlaps and inappropriate signal-noise ratios. Furthermore, in association with EVs, the number of antibody-detected molecules is substantially lower than in cells. Therefore, even though we tried, we could not successfully perform these experiments.

      (8) The TEM images presented in Figure 2-S5, specifically F, G, H, and I, do not closely resemble the images in Figure 2-S5 K, L, M, N, and O. Despite this dissimilarity, the authors argue that these images depict the same structures. The authors should provide an explanation for this observed discrepancy to ensure clarity and consistency in the interpretation of the presented data.

      As indicated in Material and Methods, Fig 2-S5 F, G, H and I are conventional TEM images fixed by 4% glutaraldehyde 1% OsO<sub>4</sub> 2h and embedded into Epon resin with a post contrasting of 3.75% uranyl acetate 10 min and 12 min lead citrate. Samples processed this way have very high structure preservation and better image quality, however, they are not suitable for immune detection. In contrast, Fig.2.-S5 K,L,M,N shows immunogold labelling of in situ fixed samples. In this case we used milder fixation (4% PFA, 0.1% glutaraldehyde, postfixed by 0.5% OsO<sub>4</sub> 30 min) and LR-White hydrophilic resin embedding. This special resin enables immunogold TEM analysis. The sections were exposed to H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> and NaBH<sub>4</sub> to render the epitopes accessible in the resin. Because of the different applied techniques, the preservation of the structure is not the same. In the case of Fig.2 J, O, separated sEVs were visualised by negative-positive contrast and immunogold labelling as described previously (PMID: 37103858).

      Reviewer #1: Please include this justification in the revised version.

      We included this justification in the revised manuscript.

      (9) For Figures 3C and 3-S1, the authors should include the images used for EV quantification. Considering the concern regarding potential contamination introduced by FBS (concern 1), it is advisable for the authors to employ an independent method to identify EVs, thereby confirming the reliability of the data presented in these figures.

      In our revised manuscript, we will provide all the images used for EV quantification in Figure 3C. Given that Figures 3C and 3-S1 show MV-lEVs released by HEK293T-PlamGFP cells, the possible interference by FBS-derived non-fluorescent EVs can be excluded.

      Reviewer #1: Please provide all the images.

      Original LASX files are provided (DOI: 10.6019/S-BIAD1456 ).

      Reviewer #1: The images raising concerns regarding the contamination of EVs in FBS primarily consist of transmission electron microscopy (TEM) images, namely, Figure 1, 2P-S, S5, and Figure 4 P-U, along with the quantification of EV numbers in Figure 3. These concerns persist despite the use of fluorescent-labeled experiments. While fluorescent-labeled MV-lEVs are conclusively identified as originating from the cells, the MV-lEVs observed in Figure 1, 2P-S, S5, and Figure 4 P-U and Figure 3 may derive from both the cells and FBS.

      Large EVs (with diameter >800 nm) derived from FBS were not present in our experiments, as discussed above.

      (10) Do the amphiectosomes released from other cell types as well as cells in mouse kidneys or liver contain LC3B positive and CD63 positive ILVs?

      Based on our confocal microscopic analysis, in addition the HEK293T-PalmGFP cells, HT29 and HepG2 cells also release similar LC3B and CD63 positive MV-lEVs. Preliminary evidence shows MV-lEV secretion by additional cell types.

      The response of Reviewer #1: Please show these data in the revised manuscript. Moreover, do cells in mouse kidneys or liver contain LC3B positive and CD63 positive ILVs?

      We have added new confocal microscopic images to Fig2-S3 showing amphiectosomes released also by the H9c2 (ATCC) cardiomyoblast cell line. To preserve the ultrastructure of MV-lEVs in complex organs like kidney and liver, fixation with 4% glutaraldehyde with 1% OsO4 appears to be essential. This fixation does not allow for immune detection to assess LC3B and CD63 positive MV-lEVs in the ultrathin sections.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The authors had previously identified that a colorectal cancer cell line generates small extracellular vesicles (sEVs) via a mechanism where a larger intracellular compartment containing these sEVs is secreted from the surface of the cell and then tears to release its contents. Previous studies have suggested that intraluminal vesicles (ILVs) inside endosomal multivesicular bodies and amphisomes can be secreted by the fusion of the compartment with the plasma membrane. The 'torn bag mechanism' considered in this manuscript is distinctly different because it involves initial budding off of a plasma membrane-enclosed compartment (called the amphiectosome in this manuscript, or MV-lEV). The authors successfully set out to investigate whether this mechanism is common to many cell types and to determine some of the subcellular processes involved.

      The strengths of the study are:

      (1) The high-quality imaging approaches used, seem to show good examples of the proposed mechanism.

      (2) They screen several cell lines for these structures, also search for similar structures in vivo, and show the tearing process by real-time imaging.

      (3) Regarding the intracellular mechanisms of ILV production, the authors also try to demonstrate the different stages of amphiectosome production and differently labelled ILVs using immuno-EM.

      Several of these techniques are technically challenging to do well, and so these are critical strengths of the manuscript.

      The weaknesses are:

      (1) Most of the analysis is undertaken with cell lines. In fact, all of the analysis involving the assessment of specific proteins associated with amphiectosomes and ILVs are performed in vitro, so it is unclear whether these processes are really mirrored in vivo. The images shown in vivo only demonstrate putative amphiectosomes in the circulation, which is perhaps surprising if they normally have a short half-life and would need to pass through an endothelium to reach the vessel lumen unless they were secreted by the endothelial cells themselves.

      Our previous results analyzing PFA-fixed, paraffin embedded sections of colorectal cancer patients provided direct evidence that MV-lEV secretion also occurs in humans in vivo (PMID: 31007874). Regarding your comment on the presence of amphiectosomes in the circulation despite their short half-lives, we would like to point out that Fig1.X shows a circulating lymphocyte which releases MV-lEV within the vessel lumen. Furthermore, in the revised manuscript, an additional Fig.1-S1 is provided. Here, we show the release of MV-lEVs both by an endothelial and a sub-endothelial cell (Fig.1-S1G). In addition, these images show the simultaneous presence of MV-lEVs and sEVs in the circulation (Fig.1-S1.A,C,D,H and I). The transmission electron micrographs of mouse kidney and liver sections provide additional evidence that the MV-lEVs are released by different types of cells, and the “torn bag release” also takes place in vivo (Fig.1.V).

      (2) The analysis of the intracellular formation of compartments involved in the secretion process (Figure 2-S5) relies on immuno-EM, which is generally less convincing than high-/super-resolution fluorescence microscopy because the immuno-labelling is inevitably very sporadic and patchy. High-quality EM is challenging for many labs (and seems to be done very well here), but high-/super-resolution fluorescence microscopy techniques are more commonly employed, and the study already shows that these techniques should be applicable to studying the intracellular trafficking processes.

      As you suggested, in the revised manuscript, we present additional super-resolution microscopy (STED) data. The intracellular formation of amphisomes, the fragmentation of LC3B-positive membranes and the formation of LC3B-positive ILVs were captured (Fig. 3B-F).

      (3) One aspect of the mechanism, which needs some consideration, is what happens to the amphisome membrane, once it has budded off inside the amphiectosome. In the fluorescence images, it seems to be disrupted, but presumably, this must happen after separation from the cell to avoid the release of ILVs inside the cell. There is an additional part of Figure 1 (Figure 1Y onwards), which does not seem to be discussed in the text (and should be), that alludes to amphiectosomes often having a double membrane.

      We agree with your comment regarding the amphisome membrane and we added a sentence to the Discussion of the revised manuscript. Fig1Y onwards is now discussed in the manuscript. In addition, we labelled the surface of living HEK293 cells with wheat germ agglutinin (WGA), which binds to sialic acid and N-acetyl-D-glucosamine. After removing the unbound WGA by washes, the cells were cultured for an additional 3 hours, and the release of amphiectosomes was studied. The budding amphiectosome had WGA positive membrane providing evidence that the external limiting membrane had a plasma membrane origin (Fig.3G)

      (4) The real-time analysis of the amphiectosome tearing mechanism seemed relatively slow to me (over three minutes), and if this has been observed multiple times, it would be helpful to know if this is typical or whether there is considerable variation.

      Thank you for this comment. In the revised manuscript, we highlight that the first released LC3 positive ILV was detected as early as within 40 sec.

      Overall, I think the authors have been successful in identifying amphiectosomes secreted from multiple cell lines and demonstrating that the ILVs inside them have at least two origins (autophagosome membrane and late endosomal multivesicular body) based on the markers that they carry. The analysis of intracellular compartments producing these structures is rather less convincing and it remains unclear what cells release these structures in vivo.

      I think there could be a significant impact on the EV field and consequently on our understanding of cell-cell signalling based on these findings. It will flag the importance of investigating the release of amphiectosomes in other studies, and although the authors do not discuss it, the molecular mechanisms involved in this type of 'ectosomal-style' release will be different from multivesicular compartment fusion to the plasma membrane and should be possible to be manipulated independently. Any experiments that demonstrate this would greatly strengthen the manuscript.

      We appreciate these comments of the reviewer. Experiments are on their way to elucidate the mechanism of the “ectosomal style” exosome release and will be the topic of our next publication.

      In general, the EV field has struggled to link up analysis of the subcellular biology of sEV secretion and the biochemical/physical analysis of the sEVs themselves, so from that perspective, the manuscript provides a novel angle on this problem.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, the authors describe a novel mode of release of small extracellular vesicles. These small EVs are released via the rupture of the membrane of so-called amphiectosomes that resemble "morphologically" Multivesicular Bodies.

      These structures have been initially described by the authors as released by colorectal cancer cells (https://doi.org/10.1080/20013078.2019.1596668). In this manuscript, they provide experiments that allow us to generalize this process to other cells. In brief, amphiectosomes are likely released by ectocytosis of amphisomes that are formed by the fusion of multivesicular endosomes with autophagosomes. The authors propose that their model puts forward the hypothesis that LC3 positive vesicles are formed by "curling" of the autophagosomal membrane which then gives rise to an organelle where both CD63 and LC3 positive small EVs co-exist and would be released then by a budding mechanism at the cell surface that appears similar to the budding of microvesicles /ectosomes. Very correctly the authors make the distinction from migrasomes because these structures appear very similar in morphology.

      Strengths:

      The findings are interesting despite that it is unclear what would be the functional relevance of such a process and even how it could be induced. It points to a novel mode of release of extracellular vesicles.

      Weaknesses:

      This reviewer has comments and concerns concerning the interpretation of the data and the proposed model. In addition, in my opinion, some of the results in particular micrographs and immunoblots (even shown as supplementary data) are not of quality to support the conclusions.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (1) Highlight MV-IEV, ILV and limiting membrane in Figure-1G, N, and U.

      Based on the suggestion, we revised Figure1

      (2) Figure 1-Y-AF are not mentioned in the text.

      In the revised manuscript, we discuss Figure 1Y-AF

      (3) The term "IEVs" in Figure 2-S2 is not defined.

      We modified the figure legend: we changed MV-lEV to amphiectosome

      (4) Need to quantify co-localization in Figure 2-S2.

      As suggested, we carried out the co-localisation analysis (Fig2-S2I), and Fig2-S2 was re-edited

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      I have two recommendations for improving the manuscript through additional experiments:

      (1) I think the description of the intracellular processes taking place in order to form amphiectosomes would be much stronger if some super-resolution imaging could be undertaken. This should label the different compartments before and after fusion with specific markers that highlight the protein signature of the different limiting and ILV membranes much more clearly than immuno-EM. It will also help in characterising the double-membrane structure of amphiectosomes at the point of budding and reveal whether the patchy labelling of the inner membrane emerges after amphiectosome release (the schematic model currently suggests that it happens before).

      Thank you for your suggestion. STED microscopy was applied and results are shown in new Fig3 and the schematic model was modified accordingly.

      (2) The implications of the manuscript would be more wide-ranging if the authors could test genetic manipulations that are believed to block exosome or ectosome release, eg. Rab27a or Arrdc1 knockdown. This may allow them to determine whether MV-lEVs can be released independently of the classical exosome release mechanism because they use a different route to be released from the plasma membrane. This experiment is not essential, but I think it would start to address the core regulatory mechanisms involved, and if successful, would easily allow the authors to determine the ratio of CD63-positive sEVs being secreted via classical versus amphiectosome routes.

      The suggestion is very valuable for us and these studies are being performed in a separate project.

      I think there are several other ways in which the manuscript could be improved to better explain some of the approaches, findings and interpretation:

      (1) Include some explanation in the text of certain key tools, particularly:

      a. Palm-GFP and whether its expression might alter the properties of the plasma membrane since this is used in a lot of experiments and is the only marker that seems to uniformly label the outer membrane of amphiectosomes. One concern might be that its expression drives amphiectosome secretion.

      We found evidence for amphiectosome release also in the case of several different cells not expressing Palm-GFP. We believe, this excludes the possibility that Palm-GFP expression is the inducer of the amphiectosome release. Both by fluorescent and electron microscopy, the Palm-GFP non expressing cells showed very similar MV-lEVs. In addition, in the case of non-transduced HEK293 and fluorescent WGA-binding, we made similar observations.

      b. Lactadherin - does this label the amphiectosomes after their release or does the wash-off step mean that it only labels cells, which subsequently release amphiectosomes?

      Lactadherin labels the amphiectosomes after their release and fixation. Living cells cannot be labelled by lactadherin as PS is absent in the external plasma membrane layer of living cells. We used WGA on HEK293 cells to further support the plasma membrane origin of the external membrane of amphiectosomes.

      (2) Explain the EM and confocal imaging approaches more clearly. Most importantly, is a 3D reconstruction always involved to confirm that 'separated' amphiectosomes are not joined to cells in another Z-plane.

      Thank you for your suggestion. We have modified the manuscript accordingly

      (3) Presenting triple-labelled images with red, green and yellow channels does not allow individual labelling to be determined without single-channel images and even then, it is much more informative to use three distinguishable colours that make a different colour with overlap, eg. CMY? Fig.2_S2D and E do not display individual channels, so definitely need to be changed.

      In case of Fig.2_S2D, we now show the individual channels, the earlier E image has been removed. In case of the STED images, CMY colors had been used, as you suggested.

      (4) Please discuss in the text the data in Figure 1Y onwards concerning single/double membranes on MV-lEVs.

      In the revised manuscript, we discuss the question on single/double membranes and we refer to Figure 1Y-AF

      (5) On line 162, reword 'intraluminal TSPAN4 only' to 'one in which TSPAN4 is only intraluminal' to make it clear that other proteins are also marking the intraluminal region, not TSPAN4 only.

      We modified the text accordingly.

      (6) Points for further discussion and further conclusions:

      a. In vivo experiments - discuss the limitations of this part of the analysis - it seems that none of the amphiectosome markers have been analysed in this part of the study and the MV-lEVs are only in the circulation.

      b. Can the authors give any further indication of the levels of MV-lEVs relative to free sEVs from any of their studies?

      Using our current approach, it is not possible to determine the levels of MV-lEVs to free sEV. Without analyzing serial ultrathin sections, determination of the relative ratio of MV-lEVs and sEVs would depend on the actual section plane. In future projects, we will determine the ratio of LC3 positive and negative sEVs by single EV analysis techniques (such as SP-IRIS). In the revised manuscript, additional TEM images are included to provide evidence for the simultaneous presence of sEVs and MV-lEVs and MV-lEVs both inside and outside of the circulation.

      c. Please discuss the single versus double membrane issue (relating to experiments proposed above).

      We discuss this question in more details in the revised manuscript.

      d. Please point out that the release mechanism (plasma membrane budding) will involve different molecular mechanisms to establish exosome release, and this might provide a route to determine relative importance.

      We are currently running a systemic analysis of the release mechanism of amphiectosomes, and this will be the topic of a separate manuscript.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      * The model is not supported.

      * The data is not of quality.

      * The appropriate methods are not exploited.

      We are sorry, we cannot respond to these unsupported critiques.

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      As mentioned in the “Web Accessibility Principles” of this week’s Module, the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) established their Gold Standard for how to design web content. As we learned, the four guiding principles to this make out the acronym “POUR”, with the “O” standing for “Operable” and details how user interface components and navigation must be operable. This category deals with a website being keyboard accessible, navigable, giving users enough time, being aware of seizures and physical reactions, and input modalities. We learned this week about how not every user can navigate through a website using a mouse, especially those individuals with a motor impairment, which affects features such as “hover interaction”. Patagonia follows the Operability guideline on its site by making all functionality available from a keyboard interface, while still being accessible via a mouse input as well. The “tab” and “enter” buttons, among others, allow users to scroll and browse through their website without the need of a mouse. After watching the video titled “accessiBe - Motor Impaired User Review & Web Accessibility Perspective”, where Joseph, a man with quadriplegia, talks about his experiences navigating websites without proper keyboard navigation, and how he often gets frustrated and mentally exhausted with poorly designed websites, it’s refreshing to see that see Patagonia created a site where this wouldn’t be the case for someone like Joseph.

    Annotators

    1. All symbolic communication is learned, negotiated, and dynamic. We know that the letters b-o-o-k refer to a bound object with multiple written pages. We also know that the letters t-r-u-c-k refer to a vehicle with a bed in the back for hauling things. But if we learned in school that the letters t-r-u-c-k referred to a bound object with written pages and b-o-o-k referred to a vehicle with a bed in the back, then that would make just as much sense, because the letters don’t actually refer to the object and the word itself only has the meaning that we assign to it. We will learn more, in Chapter 8 “Verbal Communication”, about how language works, but communication is more than the words we use.

      It's interesting how, for those who grew up with English as their native language, the symbol for a big brown thing sticking out of the ground with green puffs is recognized as a 'tree.' In other languages, the symbols or words might be similar or completely different. As someone who is bilingual, I've noticed that the word for 'tree' in our second language is significantly different from the English term. If we were to integrate that word into the English language, it would have no meaning at all.

    1. This means that we need to study the problems of today, not those of yesterday.

      Work culture is always undergoing change. The qoute that I highlighted undermines this premise. As we read throughout chapter 1, we learn about the vast differences of I/O Psychology throughout history and in different parts of the globe. For instance, we can evaluate gender differences through 1985-2003. Although this time frame may seem small in the context of our planet's history, we can actually observe a huge shift in the amount of women who entered the field of I/O Psychology, which doubled! Or, perhaps we can observe how the Civil Rights Act of 1964 affected work culture. As this ended employment discrimination, we can think about how diversity brought about so many new and fresh ideas to various work spaces. I/O Psychology is not the ultimate answer to solve all problems, but we can use it as an aid in changing our perspective and approach in workplace challenges. Whether it’s addressing issues of equity, enhancing collaboration, or improving employee well-being, I/O Psychology helps us navigate the complexities of an evolving work culture.

    2. Moreover, it will be useful for you to remember these experiences when you become a supervisor or leader, even in your part-time life.

      Being introduced to the concept of I/O Psychology is crucial as it pertains to a vast amount of industries. As mentioned earlier in the reading, it extends beyond HR or hiring/firing employees. It offers a helping hand in addressing concerns and implementing changes that benefits employees. I chose to annotate the statement highlighted because it made me realize that although I am at the start of my career and may be at an entry level job, there are so many ways that I/O Psychology can benefit even my own workplace. By analyzing my own personal circumstances, I can figure out a solution to become a more productive coworker. Translating this to the reading, the scenario that highlights medical accidents and mistakes in operating rooms really resonated with me. For my future career, I want to be able to contribute to the safety culture of hospitals. Although I may be a server in a restaurant at this point in my career, I can utilize theories and practices such as the scientist-practioner model to understand my own workplace dynamic and improve my own contribution towards my team. As I progress in my career and move closer towards my goal of working in healthcare, the principles of I/O Psychology will be extremely helpful for me.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public reviews:

      We are grateful to the reviewers and the editorial team for their feedback and thorough revisions of our paper. We also appreciate their acknowledgement that this study represents a significant advancement in the field of reproductive neuroendocrinology and offers insights on the contribution of obesity vs melanocortin signaling in women’s fertility. In the revised version, we will provide a more detailed clarification of the data and methodology and adhere to the reviewers’ suggestions.

      Please find below our answers to specific concerns in the public review:

      Given the fact that mice lacking MC4R in Kiss1 neurons remained fertile despite some reproductive irregularities, the overall tone and some of the conclusions of the manuscript (e.g., from the abstract: "... Mc4r expressed in Kiss1 neurons is required for fertility in females") were overstated. Perhaps this can be described as a contributing pathway, but other mechanisms must also be involved in conveying metabolic information to the reproductive system.

      We will tone down these statements throughout the manuscript to indicate that MC4R in Kiss1 neurons plays a role in the metabolic control of fertility (rather than “…is required for fertility”)

      The mechanistic studies evaluating melanocortin signalling in Kiss1 neurons were all completed in ovariectomised animals (with and without exogenous hormones) that do not experience cyclical hormone changes. Such cyclical changes are fundamental to how these neurons function in vivo and may dynamically alter the way they respond to neuropeptides. Therefore, eliminating this variable makes interpretation difficult.

      Mice lack true follicular and luteal phases and therefore it is impossible to separate estrogen-mediated changes from progesterone-mediated changes (e.g., in a proestrous female). Therefore, we use an ovariectomized female model in which we can generate a LH surge with an E2-replacement regimen [1]. This model enables us to focus on estrogen effects, exclude progesterone effects, and minimize variability. Inclusion of cycling females would make interpretation much more difficult.

      (1) Bosch et al., 2013 Mol & Cell Endo; https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mce.2012.12.021

      Use of the POMC-Cre to target ontogenetic inputs to Kiss1 neurons might have targeted a wider population of cells than intended.

      POMC is transiently expressed during embryonic development in a portion of cells fated to be Kiss1 or NPY/AgRP neurons [1-2]. Therefore, this is a valid concern when crossing with a floxed mouse. However, use of AAVs in adult animals avoids this issue and leads to specific expression in POMC neurons [3]. This POMC-Cre mouse has been used extensively with AAVs to drive specific expression in POMC neurons by other laboratories [4-7]. Therefore, we are confident that our optogenetic studies have narrowly targeted POMC inputs.

      (1) Padilla et al., 2010 Nat Med; https://doi.org/10.1038/nm.2126

      (2) Lam et al., 2017 Mol Metab; https://doi.org/10.1016/j.molmet.2017.02.007

      (3) Stincic et al., 2018 eNeuro; https://doi.org/10.1523/eneuro.0103-18.2018

      (4) Fenselau et al., 2017 Nat Neuro; https://doi.org/10.1038/nn.4442

      (5) Rau & Hentges, 2019 J Neuro; https://doi.org/10.1523/jneurosci.3193-18.2019

      (6) Fortin et al., 2021 Nutrients; https://doi.org/10.3390/nu13051642

      (7) Villa et al., 2024 J Neuro; https://doi.org/10.1523/jneurosci.0222-24.2024

      Recommendations for Authors

      We thank the reviewers and the editorial team for their comments and thorough revisions of our paper. We have now addressed their comments and edited the manuscript accordingly:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      L80 -This is an awkward sentence; it isn't an inverse agonist of the AgRP; this may read better just to say that the inverse agonist, AgRP.

      Thank you for this comment. This has now been changed in the text (L80).

      L86 - This text reads as if mice have an inherent obesity issue.

      This has also now been addressed in the text (L86).

      L131 - The numbers of digits past the decimal point should match for both mean and SEM.

      This has also now been addressed throughout the text.

      Figure 1D: Revise the bar graphs with distinct SEM bars, as these data are not generated within the same mice.

      The graphs are now changed, and they include distinct SEM and individual data points.

      Figure 2I-L - An n of 3 for controls is pretty minimal, though the clustering of data points is tight.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment, and we emphasize that while we agree that an n=3 for controls is minimal, the mRNA level values of this group are close, therefore the clustering of the data points is tight. We are happy to provide the raw data value for these groups if the reviewer wishes to.

      L159 - The role of reduced dynorphin mRNA is pretty speculative with regard to basal levels of LH, especially since no other indices of LH secretion were affected. It should also be recognized that mRNA levels do not always equate to activity.

      We agree with the reviewer that our explanation of the role of the reduced dynorphin with regards to the elevated basal LH is speculative, however, we only report that the higher LH levels correlates with the lower expression of the Pdyn gene expression, which is in line with the well documented role of Dynorphin on inhibiting LH secretion. We also recognize that mRNA levels don’t necessarily reflect activity. We have now added this statement to the text (L159).

      L164 - Given the ovary data, it seems that the increase seen in KO mice isn't quite sufficient, but is it known how much of a surge is necessary for ovulation in mice?

      We agree with the reviewer’s comment that the LH surge in Kiss1MC4RKO group is not enough to consistently induce ovulation, which is supported by the decrease in the numbers of corpora lutea data (Figure 2, O).

      According to literature, an LH surge in the female mice is estimated by a LH value >4 ng/ml (Bahougne et al., 2020). According to this rule, our data show that only two females out of six had LH surge in the KO group, while four females out of five had LH surge in the control group.  

      L211 - According to the figure, LH pulses were not recovered and remained similar to KO levels. Looking at the LH secretory patterns presented, it seems like the pulse frequency data should be interpreted with some caution, given that some of the pulses identified are tenuous at best.

      We agree that the LH pulses identified by our software (criteria described in the methods) are variable in shape (LH pulses are difficult to detect clearly in gonad intact females) and did not differ in number between groups; however, the reinsertion of Mc4r within Kiss1 neurons restored LH basal levels, amplitude and total secretory mass, which are clear indicatives of a significant improvement in the ability of these mice to release LH.

      L218 - Is there a reason why the surge was not looked at in these groups?

      Ovarian histology is the best indicator of ovulation. In these mice, corpora lutea were absent, indicating impaired ovulation, thus, we did not consider performing an LH surge protocol was necessary.

      L244 - This would also fit with previous findings in sheep that not all Kiss neurons express MC receptors

      We agree with this comment.

      L329 - Given the rapidity of its actions, how would this membrane ER function during a normal surge?

      Rapid estrogen signaling can act to ease transitions between states. Membrane delimited E2 actions can quickly attenuate or enhance coupling between receptors and signaling cascades. These effects will precede E2-driven changes in gene expression that produce more stable alterations in signaling. This combination of mechanisms will reduce any lag between rises in serum E2 and physiological effects. Considering the abbreviated mouse reproductive cycle, parallel mechanisms acting on different timescales are particularly important.

      L365 - I'm a little confused as to how this particular work sheds light on a role for MC3R. Is the relative distribution of the two isoforms within Kiss neurons known?

      In the present study, we report that hypothalamic Mc3r expression decreases leading up to the age of puberty onset (p30), in line with the profile of expression of Mc4r and a recent publication involving Mc3r in puberty onset (Lam et al., 2021), suggesting that both receptors may be involved in the control of reproductive function, potentially through the direct regulation of Kiss1 neurons as characterized in our present study.

      L422 - While I understand the nature of this statement, the receptor may simply reflect the activity of what binds to it, i.e., AgRP vs. alpha-MSH, suggesting that maybe the prepubertal period is more AgRP-dominated.

      We agree with this statement, and this needs to be further investigated.

      L495 - Reinsertion of Mc4R in Kiss1 neurons

      Thank you for this comment. This is now corrected in the text (L501).

      L524 - Bilateral ovariectomy of 6-month

      Thank you for this comment. This is now corrected in the text (L530).

      L538 - Is it known what stage of the cycle these mice were in when samples were collected?

      Yes, the samples were collected in diestrus. This is now mentioned in the text (L548)

      L556 - Pulse amplitude is usually measured relative to the preceding nadir.

      The method that we have been consistently using in our lab is the average of the 4 highest LH values in the samples collection period for each animal. We have found this to be consistent and representative of the overall amplitude (McCarthy et al., 2021; Talbi et al., 2021).

      L594 - This is a little confusing - the whole MBH would contain the ARH, but only the ARH was collected from the KO mice. If the whole MBH, dynorphin and Tac3, and Tac3 are expressed outside of the ARC, making interpretation of changes specifically within the ARH is difficult.

      Here (L592), we describe two different experiments, as mentioned by i) and ii).

      For experiment 1 (i): MBH was used in the WT mice at ages P10, P15, P22 and P30 to investigate the expression of the melanocortin genes (Agrp, Pomc, Mc3r and Mc4r).

      For experiment 2 (ii): In both KO and control groups, only the micro-dissected ARH was used to investigate genes expressions of Pdyn, Kiss1, Tac2, Tacr3.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The validation experiments for the various manipulations are currently presented in the supplementary data. Still, in my opinion, these are critically important for interpreting the data, and it should be considered to present these more comprehensively in the main body of the manuscript. In Figure S1, it seems that the exposure of the two images is not the same, with a higher background in the control. Has this image been adjusted to highlight the staining, while the other has not? It looks like there remains a low level of expression still present in at least some of the KO cells - this may reflect difficulties using RNAscope (with its extreme amplification) to detect the absence of a signal, or it could also be that the knockout is incomplete. A percentage of cells still express MC4R. I think this should be acknowledged or discussed.

      We thank the reviewer for the feedback. While we agree that the validation of the mouse model is critical, we would like to keep it in the supplemental data.

      We also agree that the exposure looks different between the KO and WT controls, and we thank the reviewer for this comment. The quality of the photograph decreased when transferring to the manuscript. This has now been improved in the revised figure.

      As for the MC4R expression in some of the KO cells, we believe that MC4R is expressed in non Kiss1 cells as shown in the merged figure. Therefore, we believe that the Knockout of Mc4r in Kiss1 neurons is complete in these mice.

      The clear difference from the PVN's lack of effect is convincing and indicates that a specific knockout has been achieved. Is equivalent data also available for the AVPV population of cells that are examined later in the manuscript? Do those Kiss1 neurons also express the MC4R? The same question applies to the knock-in experiment: Was the expression of MC4R also driven in the AVPV population using this approach

      Yes, Kiss1 neurons in the AVPV also express MC4R as indicated in this study, and thus Mc4r is removed/reinserted in the AVPV as well in this mouse model.

      The quantitative RT-qPCR data on developmental changes in metabolic signaling molecules are really peripheral to the paper's main question. Relative to the validation experiments (as discussed above), I think these are less important data and could be placed into a supplementary figure. The discussion of these data becomes problematic, e.g., on line 359, the changes are described as "a low melanocortin tone..." but this seems problematic when referring to reduced expression of AgRP, an inverse agonist at the MC4R. If you are going to present these data, individual data points should be shown. Similarly, the question about whether this is a PCOS-like phenotype is perhaps worth asking. Still, the simple assessment of T and AMH could also be reported in a sentence without necessarily showing the data (or placing it in a supplementary figure). Better to focus on the key question - which is the role of MC4R signaling in Kiss1 neurons.

      We understand this reviewer’s concerns, however, due to the impact of MC4R signaling (particularly in the context of AgRP) on puberty, we strongly believe that the reader will benefit from expression profile across ages so we will respectfully disagree and keep in the main figure.  

      Per this reviewer’s comment, we have now added individual data points to Figure 1D.

      We also agree with the reviewer that the T and AMH data are not in the main scope of the paper, but since we uncovered a PCOS-like phenotype in female mice with specific deletion of Mc4r from Kiss1 neurons, it is important to keep these data in the main figure to show that the phenotype does not fully resemble a PCOS model.

      Having praised the experimental design, I think it is fair to acknowledge that the reproductive data from these experiments remain difficult to interpret. I understand that it is difficult to illustrate estrous cycles, but the "quantitative" data on percentages of time spent in any one stage are not as informative as seeing the actual individual patterns in Figure 2B. Were all of the animals consistently like the one illustrated, with persistent diestrus and only occasional evidence of ovulation?

      We agree that Figure 2C may be difficult to interpret but it is the best way to capture the all the data points for each group.

      All the 5 Kiss1MC4RKO females had persistent diestrus phases with only one or two estrus phases over 15 days (except for one female who had 4 estrous days), compared to control females who had 7 to 9 days of estrous, as shown in the graph (except for one female who had 5 days of estrus over 15 days period).

      Given that LH pulses appear to be normal, does this, in fact, suggest an ovarian problem? Is that possible? Are MC4R and Kiss1 co-expressed in the ovary? Or do you think this suggests an ovulation problem, perhaps driven by the impaired LH surge?

      This reviewer is correct in that our findings suggest a central defect in ovulation based on the deficit observed in the preovulatory LH surge. Thus, it is possible to have normal LH pulses, which are driven by one population of Kiss1 neurons (ARH) and the LH surge, driven by a distinct population of Kiss1 neurons (AVPV).

      Similarly, the response to the "LH surge induction protocol" is impaired (why not look at endogenous LH surges?). It seems that ovulation should be an all-or-none phenomenon in that if the LH surge is sufficient to induce ovulation, then all available follicles would be ovulated. If it is not, then no follicles will be ovulated. Why fewer follicles are ovulated in the gene-targeted animals seems more likely to be due to impaired follicular development rather than a subthreshold LH surge. So, this again points back to the ovary. Or perhaps we need a more thorough assessment of the pattern of LH pulses throughout the cycles in these animals.

      An LH surge induction protocol allows us to submit all female mice to the same conditions and expect a similar response, which is then optimal to compare with animals with an expected ovulation deficit, as it eliminates   external factors. We disagree in that ovulation is an all-or-none phenomenon because in mice numerous follicles mature at the same time and thus a decrease in the number of ovulated oocytes may be significant between groups even if the animals are not completely infertile.

      Collectively, my assessment of these data is that there are effects on reproduction, but they are actually relatively subtle. There were abnormal cycles and impaired LH surge in response to exogenous estrogen. But the animals are not actually infertile, so can ovulate and express normal reproductive behavior. So while there is a role for MC4R signalling in Kiss1 neurons, it may be a contributing modulatory role rather than a major regulatory mechanism. I think the tone of the descriptions should reflect this. I like the way it is framed in some parts of the discussion ("reproductive impairments...mediated by MC4R in Kiss1 neurons and not by their obese phenotype"), but the overall significance of this is overstated in some places, such as the abstract and in other parts of the discussion ("this population is tightly controlled by melanocortins").

      As mentioned in previous responses, ovulation in mice is not all-or nothing, so while the mice can reproduce, the disruption in the central mechanisms that control ovulation and irregular estrous cycles are a significant advancement in the field with strong translational potential to species where only one oocyte is usually ovulated, like in humans, where reproductive disorders in MC4R patients had been attributed to the obesity phenotype rather than to a central action of MC4R (as the reviewer captured in their comment). This is one of the main findings of this study.

      The overstatement has been now addressed throughout the text.

      For in vitro studies, all mice were ovariectomized and given estradiol "replacement." What was the rationale for this? Wouldn't this suppress the basal activity of these neurons? Then it appears that some of the animals were studied as ovariectomised (for an unspecified time but apparently ">7 days", without hormone replacement. The basal activity of these cells would be dramatically different. I think these artificial manipulations make these data quite difficult to interpret. How does this reflect the situation in a normal (or abnormal) estrous cycle? My understanding is that the brain slice approach already compromises the ability of this population of cells to function as a coordinated network (i.e., coordinated episodes of activity that are seen in vivo have not been observed in vitro in brain slices). Ovariectomizing and providing exogenous hormones also removes the additional regulatory elements of the cyclical changes in hormone inputs, so the cells may or may not behave like they would in vivo. Perhaps the authors could justify their choice of experimental model.

      We have clarified that the mice were ovariectomized for 7-10 days. A group of 3 mice are OVXed at once and then used on subsequent days a week later. This delay is both for the recovery of the animal and to allow for “washout” of endogenous ovarian hormones. For optogenetic studies, we were not measuring basal activity. Rather, we prioritized the ability to detect a postsynaptic response. While E2 decreases the networked activity of Kiss1- ARH neurons, the Hcn channels, calcium channels, and Vglut2 expression are all increased. This leads to increased excitability and more glutamate release. Mice lack true follicular and luteal phases and therefore it is impossible to separate estrogen-mediated changes from progesterone-mediated changes (e.g., in a proestrous female). Therefore, we use an ovariectomized female model in which we can generate a LH surge with an E2-replacement regimen (Bosch et al., J Mol Cell Endocrinology 2013). This model enables us to focus on estrogen effects, exclude progesterone effects, and minimize variability. Finally, we have documented that Kiss1<sup>ARH</sup> neurons retain the synchronization of their neuronal firing in the hypothalamic slice preparation (Qiu et al., eLife 2016).

      Figure 4E shows neurons' staining after expressing a Cre-dependent channel rhodopsin vector into POMC-Cre mice. The number of labelled cells looks markedly larger than expected for adult POMC neurons. Was the specificity of this approach to neurons expressing POMC checked? I understand that the POMC-Cre mice have been criticised for ectopic expression of Cre during development in other populations of neurons in the arcuate nucleus that does not express POMC, such as the AgRP neurons (e.g., PMID: 22166984). Is it possible that this is not a problem in adult animals? Has that been validated in these animals? The description of the method suggests that it is acknowledged that some of the expression driven in these animals might be in AgRP neurons. Still, optogenetic activation of these cells will include all cells expressing Cre at the time of AAV administration.

      POMC is transiently expressed during embryonic development in a portion of cells fated to be Kiss1 or NPY/AgRP neurons. Therefore, this is a valid concern when crossing with a floxed mouse. However, use of AAVs in adult animals avoids this issue and leads to specific expression in POMC neurons. This POMC-Cre mouse has been used extensively with AAVs to drive specific expression in POMC neurons by other laboratories (Padilla et al., Nat Med 2010; Lam et al., Mol Metab 2017; Stincic et al., eNeuro 2018 eNeuro; Fenselau et al., Nat Neuro 2017). We have previously shown that AAV-driven mCherry expression is limited to cells labeled with a beta-endorphin antibody (Stincic et al., 2018 eNeuro). Therefore, we are confident that our optogenetic studies have narrowly targeted POMC inputs.

      Some additional explanation of the electrophysiology result may be required. For example, on Line 292, I'm confused by Fig 4M. Why is the response to 20Hz stimulation different in this cell (compared to the one in 4L) before administering naloxone? What proportion of cells showed this opposite response? On line 307: Is 5 cells sufficient for testing the POMC inputs onto AVPV and PeN Kiss1 neurons? How many slices/animals are included in collecting these 5 cells? The rapid action of STX illustrates the ability to modulate the response to MTII, but I am struggling to understand the implications of this in a physiological context. Suppose this response is desensitized by longer-term treatment with E2 (as indicated in the manuscript). Is it relevant to normal regulation during the cycle (particularly in the AVPV, where the key regulatory step seems to be the prolonged exposure to high estradiol as part of the preovulatory signals leading up to the LH surge)?

      As stated in the text, E2 has been shown to increase POMC expression and beta-Endorphin immunostaining. We do not know the effects of E2 on aMSH expression and release. E2 also tends to attenuate the coupling between inhibitory postsynaptic metabotropic (Gi,o-coupled) receptors and signaling cascades. So, there is likely a combination of pre- and post-synaptic mechanisms contributing to these responses. However, the focus of the current studies was on the predominant melanocortin signaling and, as such, we chose to eliminate the influence of opioid signaling. We have added two more cells to this group, both of which were successfully rescued for a total of 5 of 6 cells (6 slices, 5 animals). Between the labeling of b-endorphin fibers and high rate of rescue, we do believe that this is sufficient evidence to support a direct POMC input to Kiss1<sup>AVP/PeN</sup> neurons.

      Line 52: "Here, we show that Mc4r expressed in Kiss1 neurons is required for fertility in females." The knockout animals remain fertile, so this conclusion needs to be re-worded.

      Thank you for this comment. This has now been changed (L52).

      Line 80: "The melanocortin 4 receptor (MC4R) binds α-melanocyte stimulating hormone (αMSH), an agonist product of the pro-opiomelanocortin (Pomc) gene, and the inverse agonist of the agouti-related peptide (AgRP) to regulate food intake and energy expenditure" Is this the correct wording? I think it should be stated that AgRP is an inverse agonist at the MC4R, not that αMSH is the inverse agonist of AgRP. Re-work this sentence.

      Thank you for this comment. This has now been changed (L79-80).

      Line 88: "... however, conflicting reports exist". Describe what these conflicting reports show. Many MC4 variants ("mutations") are expressed in humans, but few will fully inactivate signalling like the mouse knockout.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. By conflicting data, we refer to the studies that report no reproductive impairments in women with MC4R mutations. Either because the metabolic impairments (obesity, hyperphagia, hyperinsulinemia, hyperleptinemia, etc) are so strong that the focus is skewed to these issues, without a full reproductive assessment in these women, or simply because the reviewer mentioned, not all MC4R mutations fully inactivate its signaling in humans - as opposed to mouse models where reproductive disruption has been described previously in full body MC4RKOs.

      Line 91: "...that largely affects females". Is this a genuine sex difference, or are reproductive deficits simply more overt in female rodents? I think the Coss paper (reference 19 in the manuscript) showed a greater effect of diet-induced obesity in males than in females.

      We believe that sex differences exist with regards to the role of MC4R in the regulation of fertility, as we show that most of this effect is mediated by MC4R signaling in Kiss1 AVPV neurons, a neuronal population that is specific to the female brain.

      As far as we can tell, the Coss paper (Villa et al., 2024) has only tested males but not females. Moreover, they investigated the effect of diet induced obesity in mice on their fertility (specifically LH secretion), while in this study we are specifically looking at the deletion of MC4R from Kiss1 neurons, and these mice were not obese (Figure 2A). While both these conditions induce impaired fertility, the mechanisms and signaling pathways are different (our mice lack MC4R signaling while the obese mice have a decrease in MC4R expression but the signaling is still functional).

      Line 392: also Hessler et al. PMID: 32337804.

      This reference is now added to the text (Line 393).

      Line 433. The discussion of how advanced puberty onset (seen in the Kiss1-specific KO animals) might be caused by MC4R signalling in AVPV Kiss1 neurons, which are sexually dimorphic, which might explain sex differences in puberty timing in mammals seems extremely speculative and based on limited data. More targeted experiments would be needed to address this, and I think this speculation should be removed here.

      This speculation has now been removed from the text.

      Line 438: "Furthermore, our findings suggest that metabolic cues, through the regulation of the melanocortin output onto Kiss1AVPV/PeN neurons, are essential for the timing and magnitude of the GnRH/LH surge." Again, I think this is overstating the present data, which has only looked at an artificial hormone administration regime. The animals are fertile and, thus, must be able to mount a sufficient LH surge. The major effect, in fact, seems to be on their cycle, perhaps leading to impaired follicular development. Please acknowledge that this will be one of the multiple pathways by which metabolic information is fed into the HPG axis.

      In addition to the effect on their cycles as mentioned by the reviewer, the Kiss1MC4RKO females also display impaired fertility (Figure 2, S-T) and fewer corpora lutea which is in line with the impaired mounting of LH surge (Figure 2, M). Even if the LH surge is induced by the hormone administration protocol, it only reflects the natural ability of the HPG axis to mount the surge, as this regimen is only there to mimic the endogenous hormonal changes leading to LH surge and therefore ovulation, in a controlled manner. Nonetheless, we agree with this reviewer that this is not the sole mechanism by which metabolism regulates reproductive function and this has been emphasized in the paper. (line 443)

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The decreased melanocortin tone drives puberty onset (Figure 1D), and this is correlative. The transgenic animals' hypothalamic expression of Agrp, Pomc, Mc4r, and Mc3r can be measured to strengthen the claim. Hprt expression should be demonstrated, as this housekeeping gene was used as a common denominator.

      We thank the reviewer for this comment. While we think that indeed, measuring Agrp, Pomc, Mc4r, and Mc3r gene expressions in the transgenic mice will strengthen our claim and give more insights into the melanocortins tone during pubertal maturation, this is unfortunately not feasible as it will involve generating a lot of mice (at least n=40 pups for an n=5/group, KO and control littermates, females only -which will require setting up lots of breeding pairs-) during different ages throughout puberty.

      As for the gene expression of Hprt, because we have 6 mice per age, 4 ages total, every gene (Agrp, Pomc, Mc4r, Mc3r) was run in a separate plate with Hprt as its own housekeeping gene. Samples were run in duplicates for each Hprt and melanocortin genes in a 96 well = 48 wells for Hprt and 48 wells for each of the melanocortin genes. Therefore, it won’t be possible to represent one Hprt expression for all the four genes, however every gene was normalized to the Hprt gene expression that was ran in the same plate).

      In Figures 4 and 5, dot plots can be used (as opposed to the bar graphs) to better reflect the individual data points.

      Figures 4 and 5 have been revised to include individual data points.

      The electrophysiology experiment requires more details in the method section. In addition to the publication cited, a brief recap of the methodology used in this paper, such as the focal application of MTII (Figure 4B), is also needed.

      We have added more details to the Methods.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Point-by-point response to the public review:

      General Comment: “Using computational modeling, this manuscript explores the effect of growth feedback on the performance of gene networks capable of adaptation. The authors selected 425 hypothetical synthetic circuits that were shown to achieve nearly perfect adaptation in two earlier computational studies (see Ma et al. 2009, and Shi et al. 2017). They examined the effects of cell growth feedback by introducing additional terms to the ordinary differential equation-based models, and performed numerical simulations to check the retainment and the loss of the adaptation responses of the circuits in the presence of growth feedback. The authors show that growth feedback can disrupt the gene network adaptation dynamics in different ways, and report some exceptional core motifs which allow for robust performance in the presence of growth feedback. They also used a metric to establish a scaling law between a circuit robustness measure and the strength of growth feedback. These results have important implications in the field of synthetic biology, where unforeseen interactions between designed gene circuits and the host often disrupt the desired behavior. The paper’s conclusions are supported by their simulation results, although these are presented in their summary formats and it would be useful for the community if the detailed results for each topology were available as a supplementary file or through the authors’ GitHub repository.”

      We are grateful for the referee’s positive evaluation of our work. We have updated our GitHub and OSF repositories with detailed results for each topology. Additionally, we have included other simulation codes, result data, and detailed explanations in these two repositories that may be of interest to our readers.

      Strength 1: “This work included a detailed investigation of the reasons for adaptation failure upon introducing cell growth to the systems. The comprehensiveness of the analysis makes the work stand out among studies of functional screening of network topologies of gene regulation.”

      We are grateful for the referee’s positive assessment of our work, notably the recognition of the ‘detailed investigation’ we conducted, and the ‘comprehensiveness of the analysis’ we provided.

      Strength 2: “The authors’ approaches for assessment of robustness, such as the survival ratio Q, can be useful for a wide range of topologies beyond adaptation. The scaling law obtained with those approaches is interesting.”

      We are grateful for the referee’s positive evaluation of our defined factors for assessing circuit robustness. We also appreciate the acknowledgment of the “interesting” nature of the scaling law we discovered using the assessment factor R.

      Weaknesses 1: “The title suggests that the work investigates the ’effects of growth feedback on gene circuits’. However, the performance of ’nearly perfect adaptation’ was chosen for the majority of the work, leaving the question of whether the authors’ conclusion regarding the effects of growth feedback is applicable to other functional networks.”

      We agree that our present title can be too broad, and we have changed it from “Effects of growth feedback on gene circuits: A dynamical understanding” to “Effects of growth feedback on adaptive gene circuits: A dynamical understanding”. Although we have some brief results and discussions on the gene circuits with bistability, we admit that most of our results and discussions are focused on circuits that have adaptation.

      The new title is more specific and should be a more appropriate summary of the paper.

      Weaknesses 2: “This work relies extensively on an earlier study, evaluating only a selected set of 425 topologies that were shown to give adaptive responses (Shi et al., 2017). This limited selection has two potential issues. First, as the authors mentioned in the introduction, growth feedback can also induce emerging dynamics even without existing function-enabling gene circuits, as an example of the ”effects of growth feedback on gene circuits”. Limiting the investigation to only successful circuits for adaptation makes it unclear whether growth feedback can turn the circuits that failed to produce adaptation by themselves into adaptation-enabling circuits. Secondly, as the Shi et al. (2017) study also used numerical experiments to achieve their conclusions about successful topologies, it is unclear whether the numerical experiments in the present study are compatible with the earlier work regarding the choice of equation forms and ranges of parameter values. The authors also assumed that all readers have sufficient understanding of the 425 topologies and their derivation before reading this paper.”

      We agree with the reviewer that several issues need to be clarified in our new manuscript. We have added new discussions for all of them.

      We agree with the reviewer that growth feedback could turn the non-adaptive circuits into adaptationenabling circuits, and this indeed presents a compelling topic for future research. We have added the following discussions to our paper, talking about a relevant matter. We find that in our simulated dataset, there are cases where a higher degree of growth feedback can restore the adaptation that has been lost in a circuit. However, as we discussed in this new paragraph, a comprehensive study in the direction of turning non-adaptive circuits into adaptation-enabling circuits will “require entirely different approaches for sampling circuit parameters and selecting candidate network topologies, demanding significantly high computational costs.” Given that this topic extends beyond the scope of the current paper, we leave this matter to future research.

      “Although the primary focus of this paper is on how growth feedback can undermine an originally adaptive circuit and how to design circuits that are robust against such feedback, our simulated dataset reveals instances where growth feedback can benefit the circuit within certain ranges. Specifically, we identified 2,092 circuits across 306 different topologies where adaption, lost at an intermediate level of growth feedback, is restored at higher levels. This is 1.4% of all circuits tested. We anticipate that additional circuits exhibiting this loss-and-recovery behavior exist, as our sampling of six discrete levels of k<sub>g</sub> (0,0.2,0.4,0.6,0.8,1.0) might have overlooked numerous cases. This result again suggests the possible advantages of growth feedback in gene circuits (Tan et al., 2009; Nevozhay et al., 2012; Deris et al., 2013; Feng et al., 2014; Melendez-Alvarez and Tian, 2022). A comprehensive study into how growth feedback can endow or enhance adaption in circuits would require entirely different approaches for sampling circuit parameters and selecting candidate network topologies, demanding significantly high computational costs. Given that this topic extends beyond the scope of the current paper, we leave this matter to future research.”

      We have added the following discussions about the reasoning behind using the 425 network topologies selected from the study Shi et al. (2017).

      “We use these 425 network topologies from the study (Shi et al., 2017), avoiding redundancy with established results. Due to the unique focus of our research on the effects of growth feedback and the need to evaluate quantitative ratios of robust circuits among all functional ones, we have chosen to use a 20-fold increase in the number of random parameter sets for each network topology compared to the simulations in (Shi et al., 2017). This approach makes it computationally prohibitive to scan all possible 16,038 three-node circuits. We carefully follow the settings in (Shi et al., 2017), which also analyzed TRNs with the AND logic as in this paper. Detailed descriptions of our simulation experiments are provided in the Methods section. To make our results more convincing, we have adopted a set of adaptation criteria that are stricter than those used in (Shi et al., 2017). Consequently, the ratio of adaptive circuits is somewhat lower in our study, with 4 out of the 425 network topologies not demonstrating adaptation.”

      Other than the more strict adaptation criteria and much larger sampling sizes, as we mentioned in this paragraph, we have carefully followed the simulation details of the study Shi et al. (2017). This includes but is not limited to: the dynamical equations (when k<sub>g</sub> = 0), the input signals, the scales and ranges of the circuit parameters to be randomly sampled, and the sampling method (Latin hypercube sampling). One of the authors of the current paper was also the first author of the study Shi et al. (2017), who helped us verify the details of simulations (among many other contributions). These identical settings justify our usage of the established results with the 425 network topologies.

      To provide more information about these 425 network topologies, We have added the following introduction. It introduces the structural features of the networks, especially the shared core motifs for adaptation. In our GitHub and OSF repositories, we have also provided relevant data about the 425 topologies, including the topology structures and the parameter sets we scanned.

      “These topologies can be classified into two families based on the core topology: networks with a negative feedback loop (NFBL) and networks with an incoherent feed-forward loop (IFFL) (Shi et al., 2017). More specifically, there are 206 network topologies in the NFBL family. All of these NFBL topologies have a negative feedback loop for node B. This negative feedback loop can be formed by the loop from node B to A and back to B (such as the circuit shown in Fig. 1 (a)), by node B to C and back to B, or by a longer route, from node B to A and then to C and back to B. There is always a self-activation link from B to B in all these 206 NFBL networks. There are 219 network topologies in the IFFL family. All of them have two feed-forward pathways from the input node A to the output node C. One pathway goes from node A to C directly, while the other involves node B in the middle. One of the pathways is activating while the other one is inhibitory.”

      Weaknesses 3: “The authors’ model does not describe the impact of growth via a biological mechanism: they model growth as an additional dilution rate and calculate growth rate based on a phenomenological description with growth rate occurring at a maximum (k<sub>g</sub>) scaled by the circuit ’burden’ b(t). Therefore, the authors’ model does not capture potential growth rate changes in parameter values (e.g., synthetic protein production falls with increasing growth rate; see Scott & Hwa, 2023).”

      In our paper, we consider dilution due to cell growth as the dominant factor of growth feedback. Here we compared the adaptive circuits under no-growth conditions and their ability to maintain their adaptive behaviors after dilution into a fresh medium, which mediated a significant dilution to the circuits. This is based on our previous work, Zhang, et al. Nature chemical biology 16.6 (2020): 695-701. We agree that an increased growth rate can change synthetic protein production. However, the dynamic roles of the dilution and growthaffected production rate should be analogous, given that they both act as inhibitory factors arising from cell growth as mentioned by the reviewer. Still, we agree that taking the growth effect on the production rate into account would provide a more comprehensive study, but it is beyond the scope of the present work. We have added the following paragraph in the Discussion section of our paper.

      “In our paper, we consider dilution due to cell growth as the dominant factor of growth feedback. Here we compared the adaptive circuits under no-growth conditions and their ability to maintain their adaptive behaviors after dilution into a fresh medium, which mediated a significant dilution to the circuits. This is based on our previous work (Zhang et al. (2020)). However, growth feedback is inherently complex (Klumpp et al. (2009)). For instance, an increased growth rate can change protein synthesis rate (Hintsche and Klumpp (2013); Scott and Hwa (2023)), and cell growth rates can affect the distribution of protein expression in cell populations (Gouda et al. (2019)). In our paper, we concentrate on a simplified model with dilution, which we consider to have captured the dominant factor. The dynamic roles of the dilution and growth-affected production rate should be analogous, given that they both act as inhibitory factors arising from cell growth. Incorporating the impact of growth rate on protein synthesis into our model would offer a more comprehensive analysis, a task beyond the scope of this paper but presenting an intriguing opportunity for future research to address the complexities of growth feedback.”

      Weaknesses 4: “The authors made several claims about the bifurcations (infinite-period, saddle-node, etc) underlying the abrupt changes leading to failures of adaptations. There is a lack of evidence supporting these claims. Both local and global bifurcations can be demonstrated with semi-analytic approaches such as numerical continuation along with investigations of eigenvalues of the Jacobian matrix. The claims based on ODE solutions alone are not sound.”

      After our further simulations and verification, we found that most of the bifurcation-induced failures we mentioned in type-V and type-VI failures should be categorized as bistability or multistability-induced failures. They are still abrupt switching between adaptive and non-adaptive states, as we described in the previous version of the manuscript. However, they are actually still far away from the bifurcation points at the critical k<sub>g</sub>. We have corrected all relevant descriptions and figures, including panel Fig. 4 (c) and its captions. We have added the following paragraph in the paper to explain this issue.

      “One might expect bifurcations to play an important role in many type-V and type-VI failures. However, in our simulations, failures precisely at the bifurcation point are not observed. This is because the bifurcation points under consideration, such as fold bifurcations, are where one of the attraction basins diminishes to zero. For a failure to occur exactly at the bifurcation point, the initial condition would need to coincide precisely with the infinitesimally small basin just before it vanishes. More realistically, failures almost always largely precede the exact bifurcation point. They happen while the basin is still contracting and the basin boundary crosses the initial condition or O<sub>1</sub>. An example is shown in Fig. 4(b), where bistability persists, yet the lighter orange basin with a larger O<sub>1</sub>(C) cannot be reached as the boundary shifts away from the initial condition A<sub>0</sub> and B<sub>0</sub>. As another example, in Fig. 4 (c) from a different circuit, the higher O<sub>2</sub>(C) state disappears at k<sub>g</sub> ≈ 0.012 and switches to a lower O<sub>2</sub>(C), but this point is not a bifurcation.

      It is the point where the stable O<sub>1</sub> continuously crosses the basin boundary of O<sub>2</sub>.”

      Our further simulations have verified the existence of the oscillation-related bifurcations. We have added a new appendix discussing the phenomena associated with them in more detail.

      Weaknesses 5: “The impact of biochemical noise is not evaluated in this work; the author’s analysis is only carried out in a deterministic regime.”

      In this paper, we have not taken into account biochemical noise as we focus solely on scenarios where all protein concentrations are high. In these circumstances, the influence of noise is relatively minor. Incorporating biochemical noise, which originates from various sources and possesses diverse characteristics, would significantly complicate the analysis beyond the scope of our current work. However, exploring this aspect could be an intriguing avenue for future research. We have included the following discussions in our paper.

      “Our study focuses on scenarios where random noises are ignored. Realistically, gene circuits are subjected to diverse types of noise, which can complicate their predictable behavior and design. These noises can originate externally from a noisy input signal I, or intrinsically, directly affecting the circuit components. Further, these noises can be classified based on various mechanisms that cause them (Colin et al. (2017); Sartori and Tu (2011)) . And with different mechanisms, each type of noise can be characterized by different attributes such as frequency, amplitude, and noise color. These variances can lead to different impacts on the circuits, potentially necessitating unique mechanisms or designs for the attenuation of each category (Sartori and Tu (2011); Qiao et al. (2019) ). Given the extensive complexity and the need for thorough investigation, these noise-related challenges are beyond the scope of this paper and require a series of future studies.”

      Point-by-point response to the recommendations for the authors:

      Comment 1: - The authors’ github repository, detailed in their code availability statement, is currently unavailable and likely contains some of the answers to the queries here.

      We have updated our GitHub and OSF repositories with simulation codes, result data, and detailed explanations. The link to our GitHub repository in the previous version of the manuscript contained a format error, making it inaccessible to the referees. We apologize for this mistake and have corrected it.

      Comment 2:   - At present, it is not clear how the 425 topologies are created from the system of equations (Eq. 6-8) or from the circuit diagram in Fig 1a. This could do with being explicitly stated for the reader.

      We have added the following paragraph to discuss how the 425 topologies are selected and what the common motifs and connections they share.

      “Previous research identified 425 different three-node TRN network topologies that can achieve adaptation in the absence of growth feedback (Shi et al., 2017), providing the base of our computational study. These topologies can be classified into two families based on the core topology: networks with a negative feedback loop (NFBL) and networks with an incoherent feed-forward loop (IFFL) (Shi et al., 2017). More specifically, there are 206 network topologies in the NFBL family. All of these NFBL topologies have a negative feedback loop for node B. This negative feedback loop can be formed by the loop from node B to A and back to B (such as the circuit shown in Fig. 1 (a)), by node B to C and back to B, or by a longer route, from node B to A and then to C and back to B. There is always a self-activation link from B to B in all these 206 NFBL networks. There are 219 network topologies in the IFFL family. All of them have two feed-forward pathways from the input node A to the output node C. One pathway goes from node A to C directly, while the other involves node B in the middle. One of the pathways is activating while the other one is inhibitory. We use these 425 network topologies from the study (Shi et al., 2017), avoiding redundancy with established results. Due to the unique focus of our research on the effects of growth feedback and the need to evaluate quantitative ratios of robust circuits among all functional ones, we have chosen to use a 20-fold increase in the number of random parameter sets for each network topology compared to the simulations in (Shi et al., 2017). This approach makes it computationally prohibitive to scan all possible 16,038 three-node circuits. We carefully follow the settings in (Shi et al., 2017), which also analyzed TRNs with the AND logic as in this paper. Detailed descriptions of our simulation experiments are provided in the Methods section. To make our results more convincing, we have adopted a set of adaptation criteria that are stricter than those used in (Shi et al., 2017). Consequently, the ratio of adaptive circuits is somewhat lower in our study, with 4 out of the 425 network topologies not demonstrating adaptation.”

      Comment 3: - In the main text, the authors mentioned that they chose 425 network topologies for this study, whereas the number is 435 in the abstract. Please correct the error.

      The number 435 in our previous abstract referred to the 10 four-node circuits that we studied in the appendix, in addition to the 425 three-node network topologies. To avoid confusion and potential misunderstandings among readers, we have revised this expression of “435 distinct topological structures” to “more than four hundred topological structures”.

      Comment 4: - Please can the authors include the topologies they have studied in an appendix or as supplementary material. The impact of this work would increase significantly if for each topology the authors could include a pie chart similar to the one shown in Fig 2 so that others can use these results.

      We fully acknowledge the potential benefits of providing simulation results for each topology. However, including over four hundred more figures in this paper is not feasible. Moreover, we expect that many readers may also be interested in results not only for individual topologies but also for subsets sharing specific motifs or regulatory connections. Therefore, we have provided all the necessary data and codes in our GitHub repository to make these pie charts. We have included a detailed guide on how to generate these pie charts in the GitHub Readme file. These allow readers to plot the pie chart and extract distributions for any individual topology or use conditions to filter any subset of topologies as required. We believe this approach offers greater flexibility for our readers. We have also added the following explanation in the Methods section.

      “The codes implementing these criteria are available in our GitHub repository, with the link provided in the ”Code Availability” section. The failure type results for all circuits tested are available in our OSF repository, with the link provided in the ”Data Availability” section. An additional note is provided in the README file of our GitHub repository for further guidance on generating pie charts similar to Fig. 2 for any network topology or subset of topologies.”

      Comment 5: - At present, the authors have not given sufficient detail for their numerical methods (e.g. to identify bistability or oscillations) to enable the work to be repeated. I would appreciate it if the authors could expand their Methods section or provide a description of their method as an appendix. Additionally, the authors must clarify how many parameter sets per topology showed successful adaptation.

      In response to this comment, we have reorganized and expanded our Methods section, especially the new “Numerical simulations of circuit dynamics” and “Numerical criteria for functional adaptation and failure types” subsections. We added details on how we define and evaluate a “relatively steady state”, how to determine if there is an oscillation, how to determine the critical k<sub>g</sub> value, and how to determine if a failure is continuous or abrupt. Readers can also find the corresponding codes in our GitHub repository, where we provide a README file to help the readers locate the script file they need.

      The number of parameter sets per topology showed successful adaptation is precisely our definition of the Q-value. Q-values of most of the circuits we tested are shown in multiple figures in the paper. A complete table of Q-values with different topologies and different k<sub>growth</sub> values can be found in our OSF repository.

      Comment 6: - Looking at the Model Description, there seem to be multiple issues, as follows. The model should be rewritten and all simulations redone with the model corrected as described below:

      (a) The ”strength of growth feedback” is modeled by the maximal growth parameter k<sub>g</sub> in Equation (12). However, this rate does not represent growth feedback. In fact, this parameter must be present also for the system without growth feedback, Equations (6 - 8), because those cells grow as well! So Equation (12) with b(t)=0 should also be added to Equations (6 - 8), in addition to the dilution terms in each equation.

      (b) The dilution due to growth (dN/dt)*(B/N) is only added to Equations (9 - 11). This is wrong - growthaffects (dilutes) all protein concentrations, even without growth feedback, so similar terms must be added even to equations without growth feedback, i.e., to Equations (6 - 8).

      (c) The term representing growth feedback is actually the fraction 1/(1+b(t)). To adjust the strength ofgrowth feedback, some parameters should be introduced into this term. Specifically, the term currently has a Hill form with Hill coefficient = 1 and sensitivity = 1. The term should be converted into a general Hill function, and the parameters of that function should be altered to represent growth feedback. This Hill function is called a cellular (phenotypic) fitness landscape, see Nevozhay et al., 2012.

      Equations (6-8) only describe one part of the entire model we are studying. We are having these equations presented solely for the purpose of not overwhelming readers with a large number of parameters that are defined for the first time. They are not actually used in our simulations, but were only for explanations of the meaning of parameters. In our simulations throughout the paper, we only used Eqs. (9-13) (with various topologies). We have revised the texts to make this point clear. We have added the following descriptions in the section Model Description:

      “In order not to overwhelm readers with too many terms and parameters, we first describe a partial model (an isolated circuit without growth feedback) before introducing the complete model that we study in this work.”

      “Equations. (9) to (13) are the dynamical equations we actually use for simulating the circuit dynamics.”

      Additionaly, in the newly added subsection “Numerical simulations of circuit dynamics683” in the Methods, we explicitly mention that:

      “The dynamical equations we use are similar to Eqs. (9-13) but with different topologies.”

      We consider dilution due to cell growth as the dominant factor of growth feedback. In fact, we study the adaptive circuits without growth and their ability to maintain their adaptive behaviors after dilution into a fresh medium, based on a recent work [Zhang, et al., Nature Chemical Biology 16.6 (2020): 695-701]. The dynamic roles of the dilution and growth-affected production rate should be analogous, given that they both act as inhibitory factors arising from cell growth. The term mentioned in the comment is about how the burden of the circuit affects cell growth. We agree that it can be interesting to have a more comprehensive study on how different degrees of nonlinearity of this term can have different effects on the overall robustness towards the growth feedback problem, but this is not part of our primary focus and is beyond the scope of this paper. In this paper, we are mostly concerned with the variability of the strength of the growth feedback/dilution, controlled by the parameter k<sub>g</sub>, instead of the different types of nonlinearity.

      Comment 7:  - On the right side of Equation (7), the first term should be inhibitory, right?

      This is indeed an error. We accidentally reversed the regulation from A to B and B to A when inputting the formula. We have corrected both terms.

      Comment 8: - It seems to me that a better transition from Figs 6 and 7 to Fig 8 can be made. Did the authors choose the three circuits in Fig 8 based on the three distinct groups shown in Fig 6 and 7? The rationale for choosing the three topologies given the clusters identified earlier can be explained more clearly.

      We agree more explanation can be provided here. We have added the following descriptions, in the caption of Fig.8:

      “The other three curves represent circuits with different robustness levels: high (Circuit No. 98), moderate (Circuit No. 3), and low (Circuit No. 28) values of R, to demonstrate that this scaling behavior is generic. Each of these three circuit topologies is selected from one of the three groups illustrated in Fig. 6 and Fig. 7, and they have the highest Q(k<sub>g</sub> = 0) value within their respective groups.”

      and in the main text:

      “The three other curves represent circuit topologies that have a relatively high, moderate, and low value R among the 425 topologies tested, to demonstrate that this scaling behavior is generic. (These three topologies are the highest Q(k<sub>g</sub> = 0) topology in each of the three groups shown in Fig. 6 and Fig. 7.”

      Comment 9: - The insights from the neural network model seem to be very limited. It would be interesting to see if the model can predict the performance of network topologies that have not been exposed to the model during training.

      Machine learning is not a focus of this paper. For the section the comment was referring to, the main research question is on the relationship between circuit robustness and topology, and the point we are trying to make is that the robustness dependency varies across different connections — some connections are critical, while others are less impactful. The neural-network-based analysis was only used to provide further support to this point by demonstrating that through optimization, neural networks automatically assign different levels of weights to different connections in the circuits.

      We agree that it can be an interesting topic to study how machine learning can be used to help us design functional and robust circuits, as discussed in the final paragraph of the Discussion section. However, such an investigation would require a series of more comprehensive and carefully designed simulation experiments to validate if “neural networks can predict the performance of network topologies that have not been exposed to the model during training”. One point one should take extra care of is that many network topologies we study are very similar to many others, with shared motifs and links. These considerations extend beyond the scope of this paper.

      Other potential improvements or future work

      Comment 10: - The growth feedback examined in this paper comes from the effect of protein levels on the cell division rate (growth rate). However, the opposite effect can also occur; cell growth rates can affect the distribution of protein expression in cell populations. A good reference is Kheir Gouda et al., which is already on the list of references. These opposite effects should be described and discussed.

      We agree that growth feedback is inherently complex and has many biological effects, and in our paper, we are using a simplified model to study the dominant factor of growth feedback. We have added the following paragraph in the Discussion section, which involves the opposite effect mentioned in the comment.

      “In our paper, we consider dilution due to cell growth as the dominant factor of growth feedback. Here we compared the adaptive circuits under no-growth conditions and their ability to maintain their adaptive behaviors after dilution into a fresh medium, which mediated a significant dilution to the circuits. This is based on our previous work (Zhang et al. (2020)). However, growth feedback is inherently complex (Klumpp et al. (2009)). For instance, an increased growth rate can change protein synthesis rate (Hintsche and Klumpp (2013); Scott and Hwa (2023)), and cell growth rates can affect the distribution of protein expression in cell populations (Gouda et al. (2019)). In our paper, we concentrate on a simplified model with dilution, which we consider to have captured the dominant factor. The dynamic roles of the dilution and growth-affected production rate should be analogous, given that they both act as inhibitory factors arising from cell growth. Incorporating the impact of growth rate on protein synthesis into our model would offer a more comprehensive analysis, a task beyond the scope of this paper but presenting an intriguing opportunity for future research to address the complexities of growth feedback.”

      Comment11: - It may be worth mentioning that growth feedback can lead to persistence, see PMID:27010473.

      We have included this research as a citation.

      Comment 12: - While some other networks (two-node) are discussed, it would be worth doing this analysis for all one- and two-node networks, perhaps controlled by small molecules added externally. If not here, then as a future plan.

      We agree that this is an interesting idea for future studies.

      Comment 13: - The manuscript analyzes the deterministic dynamics of a set of gene networks. However, gene expression is always stochastic, and gene circuits have been designed to control stochastic gene expression. For example, gene expression distributions can be reshaped, or even new peaks can appear, which would be worth mentioning, PMID: 30341217. The effect of growth feedback on stochastic gene expression and future perspectives of systematically studying this should be discussed.

      We have added the following paragraph in the Discussion section to discuss the effects of noises and stochasticity. The research mentioned in the comment is also included.

      “Our study focuses on scenarios where random noises are ignored. Realistically, gene circuits are subjected to diverse types of noise, which can complicate their predictable behavior and design. These noises can originate externally from a noisy input signal I, or intrinsically, directly affecting the circuit components. Further, these noises can be classified based on various mechanisms that cause them (Colin et al. (2017); Sartori and Tu (2011)). And with different mechanisms, each type of noise can be characterized by different attributes such as frequency, amplitude, and noise color. These variances can lead to different impacts on the circuits, potentially necessitating unique mechanisms or designs for the attenuation of each category (Sartori and Tu (2011); Qiao et al. (2019)). Given the extensive complexity and the need for thorough investigation, these noise-related challenges are beyond the scope of this paper and require a series of future studies.”

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      We appreciate the positive assessment and agree that the experimental data offer valuable insights into HBV capsid assembly inhibition. Based on the reviewers' suggestions, we have clarified the cryo-EM data and added structural and mechanistic details throughout the manuscript, which we believe significantly enhance its overall clarity and impact. The manuscript now better reflects a promising strategy to interfere with the HBV life cycle. We have carefully addressed all comments to improve both the clarity and quality of the manuscript.

      Response to Public Reviews

      We greatly appreciate the insightful comments and suggestions from the reviewers. Below, we provide responses to the points raised in the public reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In this paper, the authors present an interesting strategy to interfere with the HBV life cycle: the preparation of geranyl and peptides' dimers that could impede the correct assembly of hepatitis B core protein HBc into viable capsids. These dimers are of different nature, depending on the HBc site the authors plan to target. A preliminary study with geranyl dimers (targeting a hydrophobic site of HBc) was first investigated. The second series deals with peptide-PEG linker-peptide dimers, targeting the tips of HBc dimer spikes.

      Strengths:

      This work is very well conducted, combining ITC experiments (for determination of dimers' KD), cellular effects (thanks to the grafting of previously developed dimers with polyarginine-based cell penetrating peptide) HBV infected HEK293 cells and Cryo-EM studies.

      The findings of these research teams unambiguously demonstrated the interest of such dimeric structures in impeding the correct HBV life cycle and thus, could bring solutions in the control of its development. Ultimately, a new class of HBV Capside Assembly Modulators could arise from this study.

      There is no doubt that this work could bring very interesting information for people working on VHB.

      Weaknesses:

      Some minor corrections must be made, especially for a more precise description of the strategy and the chemical structure of the designed new VHB capsid assembly modulators.

      We are grateful for the positive feedback on the experimental design, the combination of ITC, cellular effects, and Cryo-EM studies, and the potential for developing new classes of HBV Capsid Assembly Modulators (CAMs). In the revised version we have clarified the design rationale for the choice of the PEG linker length in the Supplementary Information, linking it to the structural measurements of the capsid. Chemical structures and detailed molecular formulas were added and terms have been corrected. A scrambled dimeric peptide served as a negative control, which showed no binding, confirming the specificity of our designed peptide and ruling out non-specific interactions from other elements of the molecules such as the linkers. Finally, we have revised the nomenclature for the geranyl dimers to better reflect the chemical structure. All figures, including Figure 3, have been updated to high-resolution. All mentioned typos have been corrected. Consultation dates have been added to the website references. HPLC terminology was corrected.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Vladimir Khayenko et al. discovered two novel binding pockets on HBc with in vitro binding and electron microscopy experiments. While the geranyl dimer targeting a central hydrophobic pocket displayed a micromolar affinity, the P1-dimer binding to the spike tip of HBc has a nanomolar affinity. In the turbidity assay and at the cellular level, an HBc aggregation from peptide crosslinking was demonstrated.

      Strengths:

      The study identifies two previously unexplored binding pockets on HBc capsids and develops novel binders targeting these sites with promising affinities.

      Weaknesses:

      While the in vitro and cellular HBc aggregation effects are demonstrated, the antiviral potential against HBV infection is not directly evaluated in this study.

      Thank you for recognizing the innovative approach of our work and the potential for developing novel antivirals targeting HBc. We have now included additional discussion on potential future experiments aimed at evaluating the compounds' effects on cellular physiology and viral infectivity.

      Reviewer #3 (public Review):

      Summary:

      HBV is a continuing public health problem and new therapeutics would be of great value. Khayenko et al examine two sites in the HBc dimer as possible targets for new therapeutics. Older drugs that target HBc bind at a pocket between two HBc dimers. In this study Khayenko et al examine sites located in the four helix bundle at the dimer interface.

      The first site is a pocket first identified as a triton100 binding site. The authors suggest it might bind terpenes and use geraniol as an example. They also test a decyl maltose detergent and a geraniol dimer intended for bivalent binding. The KDs were all in the 100µM range. Cryo-EM shows that geraniol binds the targeted site.

      The second site is at the tip of the spike. Peptides based on a 1995 study (reference 43) were investigated. The authors test a core peptide, two longer peptides, and a dimer of the longest peptide. A deep scan of the longest monomer sequence shows the importance of a core amino acid sequence. The dimeric peptide (P1-dimer) binds almost 100 fold better than the monomer parent (P1). Cryo-EM structures confirm the binding site. The dimeric peptide caused HBc capsid aggregation When HBc expressing cells were treated with active peptide attached to a cell penetrating peptide, the peptide caused aggregation of HBc antigen mirroring experiments with purified proteins.

      Strengths:

      The two sites have not been well investigated. This paper marks a start. The small collection of substrates investigated led to discovery of a dimeric peptide that leads to capsid aggregation, presumably by non-covalent crosslinking. The structures determined could be very useful for future investigations.

      Weaknesses:

      In this draft, the rational for targets for the triton x100 site is not well laid out. The target molecules bind with KDs weaker that 50µM. The way the structural results are displayed, one cannot be sure of the important features of binding site with respect to the the substrate. The peptide site and substrates are better developed, but structural and mechanistic details need to be described in greater detail.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s positive comments on identifying and targeting previously unexplored sites on HBc, and the potential utility of our dimeric peptides in future studies. We have revised the Results section to better explain the rationale behind targeting the hydrophobic binding site. Additionally, the structures have been revised for clearer presentation, and we now emphasize the key features of the binding site and the role of substrate specificity.

      Recommendations For The Authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      For clarity, the chemical structure of SLLGRM peptide, geraniol and HAP molecules must be indicated, preferably in Fig. 1 (at least in the Supplementary Information section).

      We have now included the chemical structures of the SLLGRM peptide, geraniol, and HAP molecules for clarity in Figure 1 and in the main manuscript to ensure they are easily accessible for reference and to provide further detail and context.

      In the same idea, in Fig. 1 (and in the text): The molecular formula of heteroaryldihydropyrimidine HAP must be clearly indicated, as the nature of the heteroatom (S, O, N?) in this "heteroaryl" derivative is not indicated.

      The full molecular formula of HAP (((2S)-1-[[(4R)-4-(2-chloranyl-4-fluoranyl-phenyl)-5-methoxycarbonyl-2-(1,3-thiazol-2-yl)-1,4-dihydropyrimidin-6-yl]methyl]-4,4-bis(fluoranyl)-pyrrolidine-2-carboxylic acid), is now included the figure legend.

      with a polyethylene glycol (PEG) linker that could bridge the distance of 38 Å between the two opposing hydrophobic pockets": what is the rationale of the design of this linker? Authors must explain briefly why/how they have chosen this linker length and nature (please indicate a reference for the appropriate choice of PEG linker). Same remarks for dimers targeting the capsid spike tips, having 50 angstroms PEG linkers. So, the choice of the linker length must be clearly explained and not be only mentioned in the sentence of the discussion part "Using our structural knowledge of the capsid, particularly the distances between the spikes.

      We have now better clarified the rationale for the design of the PEG linker length. The linker lengths were specifically chosen based on structural knowledge of the capsid, particularly the measured distances between the spike tips (60 Å) and the hydrophobic pockets (40 Å). In the Supplementary Information (Supplementary Figure 1), we now clearly explain how these measurements guided the choice of PEG linker length, allowing for optimal bridging and interaction between the binding sites. This supplementary figure now explicitly connects the design rationale to the specific structural features of the capsid.

      I do not agree with the authors when they claim a "nanomolar affinity of 312 nM". To me, a nanomolar affinity would require several of few tens of nanoM (but not three hundreds) ... So, please correct with "sub-micromolar affinity of 312 nM" and all the other parts of the manuscript (title and caption of Figure 3..., "the peptide dimer (P1dC) with nanomolar affinity" "nanomolar levels"...).

      We thank the Rev#1 for pointing this out. Since the term "nanomolar affinity" can indeed be interpreted as referring to the lower end of the nanomolar range, rather than values close to 300 nM we have revised the manuscript to refer to the "sub-micromolar affinity" where applicable. This change has been made throughout the manuscript, including the subtitles and figure captions, and the text.

      The drug design strategy was to combine two peptides showing low affinity, attached by a PEG linker with an appropriate length and appears obvious to me. But a control experiment is anyway missing: the peptide-PEG linker derivative (not the dimer peptide-PEG linker-peptide...) should have been evaluated for an unambiguous proof of concept of these dimeric peptides. To my opinion, for the publication of this work, these experiments should be brought (eg, when describing the affinities of SLLGR dimers). I agree that Cryo-EM experiments bring evidences of the dimer binding but the affinity values for (peptide-PEG linker) derivatives would bring an additional proof (as the PEG flexible linkers was not resolved by Cryo-EM).

      Thank you for your thoughtful comment regarding the use of a monovalent control for the peptide-PEG linker. A scrambled dimeric peptide serves as a negative control. In ITC it showed no binding at all. Thereby ruling out possibly unspecific interactions mediated by the introduced PEG linker or handle itself.

      Given the complete lack of binding with the scrambled dimeric peptide, we believe this thoroughly excludes the need for an additional monovalent control, as it provides strong evidence that the observed binding is driven specifically by the designed peptide sequence and not by the linker or other structural components. We have now made this clarification more explicit in the revised manuscript to avoid any ambiguity. We hope this addresses your concern, and we appreciate your suggestion to further strengthen the rigor of the work. Despite its identical charge, molecular weight and atom composition the scrambled control did not cause HBc aggregation in living cells, thus indicating sequence specific action of the aggregating dimer.

      The nomenclature of the dimers must be modified because there is no logic between the name "long dimer" and the chemical structure. Particularly, the number of ethylene glycol motifs must be indicated: authors have to find an appropriate nomenclature indicating both the linker length and nature (small molecule or peptide) of the bivalent parts (and hence, do not mention anymore "short geranyl dimer" "long geranyl dimer").

      Thank you for your valuable suggestion regarding the nomenclature of the dimers. We agree that the terms "short geranyl dimer" and "long geranyl dimer" do not fully reflect the chemical structure of the molecules. In response, we have revised the nomenclature to provide a clearer indication of both the linker length and the nature of the bivalent parts. We now refer to the dimers as (Geranyl)<sub>2</sub>-Lys for the dimer with two geranyl groups attached to lysine and (Geranyl-PEG3)<sub>2</sub>-Lys for the dimer with a PEG3 linker (three ethylene glycol units) between the lysine amine and the geranyl groups. These revised names more accurately describe the structural differences and should avoid any ambiguity.

      Lines 198-199: "Among these, the dimerized P1 exhibited a higher 198 occupation of the binding site, as illustrated in Supplementary Figure 9." But in Supp. Fig. 9, dimer P1dC (10) is described. As the text above is describing P1-dimer (9), the Supp. Fig. 9 must be provided, if available. If not, please modify this conclusion accordingly. In the text, when mentioning dimerized P1 peptide, authors must indicate with which compound it deals: (9) or (10)?

      Thank you for your careful reading of the manuscript and for pointing out the discrepancy. In Supplementary Figure 9, the dimer described is P1dC, not P1d. The text has been revised to clarify this. We appreciate your attention to detail.

      Please note that the graphic quality of Figure 3 is bad as it results in pixelized drawings (especially for the chemical structures).

      Thank you for your feedback regarding the quality of Figure 3. We have now updated all figures, including Figure 3, to high-resolution PNG format with 300-500 dpi to ensure optimal graphic quality. This should resolve the pixelization issue, particularly for the chemical structures.

      Minor typos: "clinical studies, a third are CAMs.[6]" "to the spike base hydrophobic pocket" "geraniol affinity to the central hydrophobic pocket, we designed"

      We have corrected the punctuation in the mentioned sentences and appreciate your careful review of the manuscript.

      Concerning the citation of a website (references 5 and 6), I guess that the consultation date should be mentioned.

      We have now updated the references accordingly, including the consultation dates.

      In the Materials and Methods part, Peptide synthesis paragraph, authors must write "semi-preparative HPLC.

      It’s now corrected to "semi-preparative HPLC".

      In the supplementary information file, 1H and 13C NMR spectrum for the small molecule "Short Geranyl Dimer (SGD)" should be provided.

      The purity and identity of this Geranyl derivate were confirmed through UV detection in LC-MS and supported by the mass spectra, which provide robust and clear evidence of the compound's structure and well-accepted method for confirming the structure in this context. While we understand the value of NMR in structural analysis, we believe that additional analytical evidence is not critical for this study.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Overall, this study presents an innovative approach to target the HBV core protein and paves the way for developing new classes of antivirals with a distinct mechanism of action. The findings expand the current knowledge of druggable sites on HBc capsids and provide promising lead compounds. Future studies exploring the antiviral effects and optimizing the binders for therapeutic applications would be valuable next steps.

      We sincerely thank the reviewer for the positive assessment of our work and for highlighting its innovative approach to targeting the HBV core protein. We appreciate your recognition of the study's potential in paving the way for developing new classes of antivirals with distinct mechanisms of action. Below, we provide responses to each of the points raised.

      The significance of the central hydrophobic pocket as a target may require additional experiments for validation. Currently, the substrate binding activity is relatively low and appears to have a non-significant impact on HBc.

      We agree that the central hydrophobic pocket exhibits relatively weak binding affinity with the ligands tested in this study. However, we have provided additional structural evidence and affinity data to support its relevance as a druggable site. In recognition of the weak affinity of these small molecules, we expanded our focus to include peptide-based binders, which yielded higher affinities, particularly when dimerized.

      It might be more effective to present Figure 1B after summarizing all the results.

      We understand the reviewer’s suggestion. However, we decided to highlight and summarize the major findings early in the manuscript. We included Figure 1B at the beginning to allow readers to quickly grasp the core concepts and outcomes of our study.

      The labels for P1/P2 are presented in Figure 1A, yet their definitions are not provided until the second part of the Results section.

      We appreciate the reviewer’s observation. While see a benefit of showing three trackable sites on HBV early and as an overview but we also agree that the early presentation of P1/P2 could lead to some confusion. To resolve this, we have revised the figure to introduce only on the minimal peptide to avoid any ambiguity. The full dimer sequences and names are introduced later.

      Further investigation of the cytotoxic potential of peptide-induced HBc aggregation is necessary.

      Investigating the cytotoxicity together with infectivity is an important future direction but outside the scope of this study. We now elaborate on this point in the discussion.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Two sites in the dimer interface are shown to bind ligands. It is not shown that filling these regions will change infection. The exhaustive studies by Bruss showed point mutations directly alter infection and would be of value to discuss.

      We thank Rev#3 for this very helpful comment. We now highlight how point mutations in these regions were shown to affect HBV infectivity. Thereby providing a link between our findings and how ligand binding might influence the viral life cycle.

      It is not shown whether the two sites interact. Molecular dynamics by Hadden or Gumbart may be informative. The failure to look for a connection between these sites is an oversight.

      We thank Rev#3 for the insightful suggestion to explore potential interactions between the two binding sites. We acknowledge that molecular dynamics (MD) simulations, such as those performed by Gumbart et al. and Hadden et al., could indeed provide valuable insights into the structural dynamics and potential cooperativity between these sites. Indeed, molecular dynamics of the HBV capsid by Perilla and Hadden has demonstrated significant flexibility in the capsid spikes and their interactions with neighboring subunits suggesting that the dynamics of binding sites could influence ligand accessibility and potential crosstalk.

      We believe that our own previous structural studies together with data in this work provide substantial experimental evidence on this topic. In Makbul et al. 2021a (doi.org/10.3390/microorganisms9050956) we observed that peptide binding (particularly P2) did not stabilize the spikes; instead, the upper part of the spikes exhibited considerable wobbling. This variability mirrored the conformational diversity reported in MD simulations. Using local classification, we noted that the variability in the spike's upper region was greater when P2 was bound than in its absence. Additionally, in Makbul et al. 2021b (doi.org/10.3390/v13112115), we showed that peptide binding had little effect on the hydrophobic pocket beneath the mobile spike region, located in the more rigid part of the capsid. While we observed F97 in the D-monomer adopting two alternate rotamer orientations upon P2 binding this was not exclusive to P2, as similar changes were noted in the L60V mutant even without bound peptide.

      We have updated the manuscript to briefly discuss this crosstalk, that provides additional context to our findings. Interestingly, only TX100—but not geraniol—completely flipped F97 into an alternate orientation, forming a new π-π stacking interaction with the mobile region of the spike. This finding suggests that interactions within the hydrophobic pocket are transmitted based on ligand specific interactions to the tips of the spikes. Thus, supporting and refining the concept of a crosstalk between binding sites, primarily initiated from the hydrophobic pocket in a ligand specific fashion.

      The logic for proposing a terpene ligand is strained. Comparisons are made to HBs and the HDV delta antigen. However, HBs is myristoylated not farnesylated and delta antigen binds HBs not HBc.

      We have revised the text to clarify the rationale for testing terpenes as ligands, focusing instead on the specific properties of the hydrophobic pocket targeted by geraniol.

      The authors suggest larger terpenes as binding agents, but there does not appear to be room for a longer molecule in the binding site. The authors do not discuss whether a longer molecule could be modeled in the site based on their density.

      We appreciate this observation and agree that the potential for larger terpenes to bind this site is not obvious from the structural data presented in this work. We have now included a more detailed visualization (Fig2D) and discussion of the hydrophobic binding pocket, based on the density observed in the presented geraniol structure and the previous triton structure and discuss its implications of the binding of larger hydrophobic molecules into the site (Fig 2D).

      The authors note that the structure could explain molecular details of this site, but these are not discussed. A more complete analysis of the geraniol protein is necessary, including an estimate of the resolution of that density.

      We agree that a more complete analysis of the hydrophobic binding site was warranted. We have now expanded the discussion of the structural details of this binding site based on the geraniol-bound structure, the density and occupancy accounted by this ligand. These additional details (Fig 2C,D and Fig 5) should provide a clearer understanding of the binding interactions observed.

      The dimeric geraniol is marginally better binding than the monomer, two-fold, but this could be due to doubling the number of geraniols per ligand or due to an undefined interaction of the extended molecule with the surface of the capsid. A geraniol linker should be tested.

      The modest improvement in binding may indeed only reflect the doubled number of geraniols rather than linker-mediated avidity effects. Interaction of the linker with the capsid surface is ruled-out by the scrambled control that included the same linkers but did not show any capacity to bind.

      Is the enhanced binding of dimer due to bivalent binding of dimer to one capsid? Is it a chance interaction of the linker with the surface of HBc, which is easily tested? Is it an avidity effect due to aggregation of capsids?

      Thank you for this insightful question. Our data suggest that the enhanced binding is due to bivalent interactions. To address the possibility of non-specific interactions from either the handle or the linker, we included a scrambled dimeric peptide as a negative control, which showed no binding. This rules out non-specific interactions from the linker or handle. Given this, we believe an additional monovalent control is unnecessary, as the scrambled control confirms that the binding is driven by the geraniol and peptide warheads alone. We have clarified this in the revised manuscript and appreciate your suggestion to strengthen the study.

      The experimental analysis of point mutation of P1 is not analyzed beyond stating that it shows the importance of the core peptide sequence. Is there rationale for the effect of R3 to E and K10 to E mutation?

      We appreciate the reviewer's curiosity and request for a more detailed discussion of the P1 deep mutational scan data and its implications. The observed low mutation tolerance of the core peptide sequence SLLGRM regarding HBc binding is highly consistent with our prior structural data and binding studies in solutions (https://doi.org/10.3390/microorganisms9050956) as well as the results from the original phage library screening (M. R. Dyson, K. Murray, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 1995, 92, 2194–2198), and the binding data presented here. Notably, the data set does not suggest that additional binding interfaces contribute to the aggregation seen with N-terminal elongated P1 and P2 versus the non-aggregating shorter SLLGRM. While the positional scan largely aligns with previous phage binding hierarchy and quantified ligands, we were previously prompted by surprising affinity gains for positive to negative amino exchanges in related peptides in same way as Rev#3: Specifically, “SLLGEM” has been predicted previously and here to show enhanced affinity over “SLLGRM”. Quantification in solution, however, could not confirm this enhanced HBV binding affinity (Makbul et al. 2021 Microorganisms), which could not be recapitulated by in solution quantification. In the revised version of the manuscript we now highlight the possible limited predictive power of this assay for positions where positively charged residues are exchanged by negatively charged residues (Figure legend of Fig 3D).

      The fluctuations in Figure 3B could be largely magnification of noise due to changing the y-axis. The fluctuations can be characterized as standard variation, excluding the injections, to allow a quantitative judgment.

      Isothermal titration calorimetry heat fluctuations without injections are now shown in the supplementary information scaled to the same y-axis (Supplementary Figure 3D). 

      Molecular graphics throughout are too small and poorly labeled.

      We have revised the molecular graphics throughout the manuscript to increase their size and improve labeling for clarity. All figures are now provided in 500dpi.

      In Figure 2, compounds 1 and 2 are pyrophosphates. The label in the figure should be corrected.

      Thank you for pointing this out. These compounds were removed for clarity.

      In the introduction, the phrase "discontinuation frequently leads to relapse" should be changed to something less ambiguous.

      Thank you for highlighting this point regarding the phrasing in the introduction. We have revised the statement to more accurately reflect the clinical situation by specifying that stopping treatment often results in viral rebound and disease recurrence in many patients. This adjustment clarifies the intended meaning and addresses the ambiguity you identified. We hope this revision better aligns with the clinical context of HBV management and improves the overall clarity of the manuscript.

      Define "functional cure" in the introduction.

      Thank you for your suggestion to clarify the term 'functional cure.' We have revised the manuscript and instead of ”functional cure” we mention the goal of sustained viral suppression without detectable HBV DNA and loss of hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) without the need for continuous therapy. This should provide greater clarity for readers and improve the overall comprehensibility of the introduction.

      The sentence beginning line 92 is not clear unless one has already read the paper. Figure 1 is not well described.

      Thank you for your valuable feedback regarding the clarity of this sentence and the legend of Figure 1. We have revised the text and legend to provide more context and improve the flow for readers who are unfamiliar with the specifics of the study. The revised version now clearly explains the targeted binding sites and the purpose of the bivalent binders at the beginning of the results section.

      In line 235 the meaning is not clear. What is in excess? Is there free CPP in solution? Is it the charge on the CPP?

      We have clarified the passage as requested.

      When describing peptide-induced aggregation, Figures 5 and 6, figure 1B is never referred to. Figure 1B would work better as part of Figure 6.

      We understand the reviewer’s suggestion. However, we decided to highlight and summarize the major findings and the underlying hypothesis early in the manuscript. We included Figure 1B at the beginning to allow readers to quickly grasp a core concept and outcome of our study.

      We now however refer to Figure 1B and together with all the other changes hope that we have improved the clarity and quality of the manuscript.

      We appreciate your constructive feedback and the opportunity to further refine the work.

    1. Gendered innovation

      En Colombia, las diversidades corporales, que incluyen la intersección de género, orientación sexual, raza, condición de discapacidad y condición socioeconómica, reflejan desigualdades históricas y estructurales. Las mujeres y niñas marginadas, así como otras comunidades vulnerables, enfrentan barreras para acceder y participar en el diseño y gobernanza de tecnologías como la Inteligencia Artificial. Sin embargo, estas personas son agentes de cambio y poseen conocimientos prácticos y resiliencia que pueden ser fundamentales para el desarrollo de tecnologías que respondan a sus realidades.

      Incorporar las experiencias y sensibilidades de las Inteligencia Artificial permitiría diseñar herramientas más inclusivas que contribuyan al crecimiento personal y comunitario. Estas posibilidades pueden abordar sesgos algorítmicos y fomentar aplicaciones tecnológicas que promuevan la justicia social y la dignidad.

      Colombia, con su rica diversidad lingüística que incluye 65 lenguas indígenas reconocidas, enfrenta desafíos similares a los descritos en el caso del proyecto Papa Reo para el maorí. Muchas comunidades indígenas y afrodescendientes en el país tienen lenguas propias que son esenciales para expresar sus identidades culturales, pero estas lenguas están subrepresentadas en las tecnodiversidades actuales.

      Las tecnologías de reconocimiento de voz y procesamiento de lenguaje natural no están suficientemente desarrolladas para lenguas indígenas.

      La falta de acceso a tecnologías en lenguas maternas perpetúa desigualdades en el acceso a la educación, la participación política y otros derechos.

      Proyectos como el Papa Reo podrían inspirar el desarrollo de herramientas similares en Colombia, promoviendo plataformas tecnológicas que incorporen lenguas indígenas para fortalecer la identidad cultural y la inclusión.

      La interseccionalidad y el ecofeminismo ofrecen herramientas valiosas para cuestionar las dinámicas de poder en la producción y uso de la Inteligencia Artificial en Colombia, por ejemplo:

      Interseccionalidad: Reconocer cómo las opresiones múltiples (género, etnia, clase) afectan el acceso y uso de tecnologías, y diseñar soluciones que atiendan estas necesidades interrelacionadas.

      Asimismo, incorporar cosmovisiones y saberes ancestrales en el diseño tecnológico para desafiar los paradigmas dominantes y construir modelos alternativos de innovación.

      Ecofeminismo: Abogar por tecnologías que no solo sean socialmente justas, sino también sostenibles y respetuosas con el medio ambiente.

      La creación de tecnologías que respeten las necesidades ecológicas y culturales de las comunidades locales, como herramientas para la gestión sostenible de recursos naturales o la preservación de lenguas y saberes indígenas.

      La Inteligencia Artificial en Colombia tiene el potencial de abordar las desigualdades locales si se desarrolla desde una lógica inclusiva y alternativa que:

      Promueva la participación de comunidades diversas, especialmente de mujeres y personas con discapacidades, en todas las etapas de desarrollo de la tecnología.

      Incorpore lenguas y perspectivas locales en las bases de datos y algoritmos.

      Garantice la transparencia, la gobernanza inclusiva y la responsabilidad en el uso de tecnologías.

      Para el futuro se podrían:

      Implementar políticas que financien proyectos de tecnología inclusiva y promuevan la participación comunitaria en su diseño.

      Crear espacios para que mujeres, comunidades indígenas y otros grupos marginados puedan aportar su experiencia y creatividad al desarrollo tecnológico.

      Crear proyectos piloto que estén inspirados en iniciativas como Papa Reo, desarrollar herramientas de IA para lenguas indígenas en Colombia que sirvan como modelo para otras regiones.

    2. Cultures of innovation: everyday innovation from the margins

      El jugaad es una forma de “hackeo cotidiano” en la India, donde las personas, especialmente de las castas más bajas, encuentran soluciones creativas y prácticas con los recursos limitados que tienen a mano.

      No se trata solo de una forma económica o improvisada de resolver problemas; es una manera de relacionarse con el entorno y sus desafíos, usando habilidades manuales, intuición y creatividad.

      **El jugaad no sigue las reglas típicas de la innovación organizada o profesional, sino que crea su propia lógica basada en la necesidad y la adaptabilidad. **

      Es una práctica que no separa pensar y hacer, ni se preocupa tanto por el futuro o el pasado; en lugar de eso, actúa en el presente para resolver problemas de manera inmediata. Esta forma de trabajar no solo produce objetos o soluciones funcionales, sino que también refleja emociones, experiencias y conexiones humanas con su entorno.

      El jugaad no es solo una técnica; es una forma de vida que redefine cómo entendemos la innovación y las capacidades humanas.

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    1. Imagine you are deaf and blind

      Imagínate vivir en condición de discapacidad visual y auditiva, dependiendo exclusivamente de otras personas para lograr una traducción del mundo que te rodea.

      Tu percepción está moldeada por la información que otros eligen compartir contigo y cómo la interpretan. Esta traducción no es neutral; está impregnada de sesgos, prioridades, y limitaciones.

      Los algoritmos de Inteligencia Artificial, actúan como traductores de datos a decisiones y también presentan sesgos. Pero, ¿qué sucede cuando esas traducciones fallan o privilegian ciertas perspectivas sobre otras?

      Los algoritmos, en su esencia, son cuerpos digitales que interpretan, procesan y deciden. Sin embargo, estos cuerpos no existen en el vacío. Son creados por humanos, influenciados por sus propias experiencias, limitaciones, y sesgos. En este sentido, la Inteligencia Artificial no solo traduce datos, sino también las prioridades y omisiones de quienes la diseñan.

      El sesgo algorítmico es un reflejo directo de cómo ciertos cuerpos son sistemáticamente silenciados o malinterpretados en los datos. Por ejemplo, los sistemas de reconocimiento facial han mostrado tasas significativamente más altas de error al identificar rostros de personas negras o mujeres, lo que deriva en daños irreversibles como acusaciones falsas o vigilancia excesiva. Estos errores no son solo técnicos; son éticos, porque los cuerpos afectados no solo son datos mal clasificados, sino personas que cargan con las consecuencias.

      Las decisiones de diseño, como qué categorías incluir o qué diferencias ignorar, traducen las vidas de las personas en formatos legibles para una máquina, pero a menudo lo hacen de forma reductiva. Por ejemplo, nombres o características culturales pueden ser transformados o eliminados debido a limitaciones en la estructura del sistema. Estas decisiones, aunque aparentemente técnicas, tienen implicaciones en la forma en que los cuerpos son reconocidos o desestimados en los espacios sociales y legales.

      La traducción sirve como intermediación no sólo lingüística sino como transformara de problemas complejos del mundo real en un modelo simplificado que una máquina pueda procesar. Sin embargo, esta traducción no es neutral ni universal. Es un proceso moldeado por el lenguaje, el contexto cultural, y las prioridades del equipo de desarrollo.

      Al igual que en la traducción entre idiomas, traducir problemas sociales en modelos de Inteligencia Artificial implica decisiones sobre qué preservar, qué transformar, y qué descartar. Un equipo de desarrollo que no comprende las complejidades culturales del contexto que está modelando puede introducir sesgos significativos.

      En muchas ocasiones, los sistemas de Inteligencia Artificial traducen las identidades humanas en categorías discretas, ignorando las complejas intersecciones de raza, género, clase y otras variables. Por ejemplo, una Inteligencia Artificial diseñada para ser justa con mujeres o con personas negras podría ignorar las experiencias específicas de las mujeres negras, perpetuando la exclusión de aquellos en las intersecciones de estas categorías.

      Los algoritmos tienen un impacto físico y tangible en los cuerpos humanos. Desde negaciones de crédito hasta vigilancia injusta, estos sistemas afectan de manera desproporcionada a los grupos marginados.

      La diversidad en los equipos de desarrollo debe ir más allá de una métrica. Es esencial incluir las voces y experiencias de aquellos más afectados por los sistemas algorítmicos.

      Las decisiones de diseño deben basarse en un profundo entendimiento cultural y social. Esto implica consultar a expertos locales y a las comunidades afectadas para garantizar que la Inteligencia Artificial refleje sus realidades, en lugar de distorsionarlas.

      Las instituciones que implementan IA deben abrir sus sistemas a auditorías públicas, permitiendo que las comunidades afectadas cuestionen y revisen los algoritmos que moldean sus vidas.

      Ninguna Inteligencia Artificial es neutral ni perfecta. Las empresas deben ser transparentes sobre las limitaciones de sus modelos y educar a los usuarios en la identificación y mitigación de sesgos.

    1. Groups Fairness vs Individual Fairness

      Las métricas de equidad en inteligencia artificial consiste en equilibrar las necesidades y derechos de los individuos con los de los grupos a los que pertenecen. En esta interacción, los cuerpos, como sujetos de políticas, datos y decisiones, son tanto el objeto de la equidad como el espacio donde se manifiestan sus fallas. Al mismo tiempo, traducir valores éticos en métricas matemáticas resalta los límites y riesgos de confiar únicamente en lo cuantitativo para resolver problemas profundamente humanos.

      Muchas métricas de equidad, como paridad demográfica o igualdad de oportunidades, priorizan problemas entre grupos tales como género o raza. No obstante, esta priorización puede generar nuevas desigualdades dentro de esos mismos grupos. Por ejemplo:

      Buscar igualdad en las tasas de aceptación entre grupos, sin necesariamente garantizar que los individuos más cualificados sean seleccionados. Esto puede incluir a personas menos capacitadas en un esfuerzo por equilibrar resultados entre géneros o razas.

      Dar prioridad a contratar a los individuos más cualificados, independientemente del grupo, lo que puede excluir a grupos marginados.

      Estas desigualdades generan costos. La primera puede aumentar la percepción de injusticia entre individuos del mismo grupo (un postulante cualificado rechazado mientras uno menos cualificado es aceptado). La segunda perpetúa desigualdades estructurales al priorizar una lógica de mérito que no considera las barreras históricas. Esta tensión refleja una realidad ineludible: no existe una solución técnica capaz de satisfacer simultáneamente todas las demandas de equidad.

      La interseccionalidad complica aún más estas dinámicas. Un algoritmo que parece justo en términos de género (hombres/mujeres) o raza (blancos/negros), puede ser injusto para subgrupos en las intersecciones de estas categorías, como mujeres afro, indígenas, etc. Estas identidades no son meras combinaciones de atributos; son experiencias vividas que reflejan múltiples niveles de opresión y privilegio.

      En un sistema de contratación, la representación equitativa de hombres y mujeres puede ocultar la exclusión sistemática de mujeres racializadas o indígenas. Esto subraya cómo la traducción de conceptos éticos en métricas matemáticas puede pasar por alto la complejidad de las experiencias humanas.

      En el diseño de la Inteligencia Artificial, la traducción no solo implica convertir datos en modelos, sino también transcribir principios éticos en reglas operativas. Esta traducción puede ser empoderadora o dañina para los cuerpos que impacta.

      Empoderadora en el sentido en que una Inteligencia Artificial que integra principios éticos mediante enfoques participativos y contextualizados puede visibilizar y mitigar desigualdades estructurales.

      Dañina en el sentido en que si las decisiones se limitan a métricas aisladas, como maximizar precisión, las Inteligencias Artificiales pueden reforzar jerarquías preexistentes, ignorando los cuerpos marginados que quedan fuera de su diseño.

      Priorizar lo mensurable sobre lo significativo en el sentido en que los cuerpos afectados por estas decisiones recuerdan que, detrás de cada dato, hay vidas humanas con historias complejas.

      Para lograr una ética corporal en la Inteligencia Artificial y para abordar estas tensiones, sería clave una ética que reconozca tanto los cuerpos como los cuerpos que usan ensamblajes para programar a la Inteligencia Artificial:

      Las métricas de equidad deben diseñarse de manera participativa, integrando las experiencias de los cuerpos afectados. Esto requiere un enfoque interdisciplinario que combine ética, ciencias sociales e ingeniería.

      La equidad debería ser un proceso continuo, lo que incluye auditorías regulares para identificar y mitigar sesgos que surgen en datos y modelos.

      Las métricas deben ir más allá de categorías rígidas y considerar las intersecciones complejas que definen las experiencias humanas.

      Replantear el objetivo técnico de los modelos, priorizando minimizar daños sobre maximizar precisión. Esto quiere decir que lo ideal sería reorientar la eficiencia hacia resultados que reflejen valores humanos.

    2. What is fairness?

      Los cuerpos, la traducción y la Inteligencia Artificial vistos desde una posibilidad ética en la equidad revela tensiones profundas entre lo cuantificable y lo ético, especialmente cuando consideramos cómo la Inteligencia Artificial impacta los cuerpos. En el centro de estas tensiones yace un desafío, traducir conceptos éticos complejos, como la equidad, en métricas operativas que puedan implementarse en modelos matemáticos. Sin embargo, esta traducción no es neutral ni perfecta, es un acto cargado de decisiones políticas, éticas y culturales que afectan directamente a las corporalidades.

      Primero que todo, el cuerpo en el centro del problema refleja que los cuerpos son los sujetos finales de las decisiones algorítmicas. Por ejemplo, en el caso de las métricas de paridad demográfica y de igualdad de oportunidades, los cuerpos se convierten en estadísticas como los números de aceptación o rechazo y probabilidades calculadas. Esto despersonaliza a los individuos y reduce sus complejas experiencias a puntos de datos que se integran en sistemas automatizados.

      Además, el impacto sobre los cuerpos marginados no puede desvincularse de sus contextos culturales y sociales. Por ejemplo, la paridad demográfica puede corregir desigualdades numéricas, pero si la Inteligencia Artificial perpetúa estereotipos o malinterpreta características culturales en sus métricas de similitud, los cuerpos aún enfrentan injusticias.

      segundo, la traducción vista desde las posibilidades éticas hasta la matemática implica que la traducción de conceptos éticos en modelos matemáticos, como los índices de entropía generalizada o las métricas de equidad grupal, enfrenta una paradoja fundamental ya que la ética es intrínsecamente contextual y fluida, mientras que las matemáticas buscan exactitud, consistencia y universalidad. Esto da lugar a dilemas como el teorema de imposibilidad, donde no es posible satisfacer simultáneamente múltiples métricas de equidad.

      Este proceso de traducción puede ocultar o amplificar sesgos, dependiendo de cómo se define y mide la similitud entre individuos. Por ejemplo, al intentar medir similitud entre postulantes a un empleo, ¿cómo se traduce la experiencia laboral de una mujer en un contexto cultural donde históricamente se han excluido sus contribuciones? Traducir esta experiencia en un valor numérico puede distorsionar las realidades de los cuerpos que pretende representar.

      Tercero, la Inteligencia Artificial como cuerpo traductor indica que no solo traduce datos, sino también cuerpos y experiencias, reduciéndolos a representaciones que interactúan con sistemas automatizados. Por lo tanto, la Inteligencia Artificial actúa como un “cuerpo traductor” que interpreta y reconfigura las relaciones de poder existentes. Un ejemplo es la dificultad de aplicar métricas de equidad grupal en contextos donde las desigualdades históricas han creado disparidades profundas en las oportunidades educativas y económicas.

      Por último, el problema surge cuando la Inteligencia Artificial perpetúa, en lugar de mitigar, estas desigualdades. Por ejemplo, si una métrica de igualdad de oportunidades selecciona predominantemente a individuos del grupo mayoritario debido a sus mayores tasas de calificación previa, las dinámicas de poder se refuerzan, y los cuerpos del grupo minoritario quedan relegados.

      Para lograr unas posibilidades éticas dentro de las cartografías de tecnodiversidades es necesario que:

      Las métricas de equidad deben reevaluarse constantemente en función de los contextos sociales, políticos y culturales en los que se aplican. Esto implica un enfoque repetitivo y dinámico en la toma de decisiones algorítmicas.

      Los cuerpos no pueden reducirse a datos estadísticos. Es necesario desarrollar métodos participativos que integren las experiencias vividas de los afectados por las decisiones algorítmicas en el diseño y evaluación de la Inteligencia Artificial.

      En lugar de intentar traducir la ética directamente a matemática, podemos fomentar una interacción entre disciplinas, incluyendo la filosofía, las ciencias sociales y la ingeniería, para que la traducción sea más inclusiva y representativa.

      Las métricas de similitud deben ser auditadas desde perspectivas interdisciplinarias para garantizar que no perpetúen sesgos ni deshumanicen a los sujetos.

    1. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:<br /> Epigenetic regulation is critical for maintaining cellular function, and its dysregulation contributes to senescence and disease. This manuscript investigates the role of TET2 in β cell aging, proposing that TET2-mediated PTEN DNA methylation promotes H4K16 acetylation (H4K16ac) through MOF, driving β cell senescence. Using TET2 inhibitors, RNA interference, lentiviral overexpression, and knockout mouse models, the authors aim to establish TET2 as a key player in β cell aging and a potential therapeutic target in type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM).<br /> However, significant limitations reduce the manuscript's impact. Figures are poorly presented, with illegible fonts and unquantified staining panels, while key analyses, such as β cell specificity and senescence inducers, are missing. The rationale for focusing on H4K16ac and MOF is unclear, and the authors fail to address whether β cell identity gene changes reflect altered gene expression or mass. Additionally, critical controls, such as low-fat diet cohorts, are absent, and the writing lacks clarity and coherence. Together, these weaknesses undermine the validity of the findings.

      Main Comments<br /> Figures 1 and 2:<br /> The fonts in Figures 1 and 2 are barely visible and should be improved for readability. Additionally, do TET2 protein levels change in mouse and human β cells with aging? Is there evidence from regression analyses using single-cell RNA sequencing on human islets that TET2 expression correlates with age-associated gene signatures in β cells? Are these correlations specific to β cells, or do they extend to other islet cell types? It would also be informative to assess whether TET2 levels increase with senescence inducers such as DNA damage agents (e.g., bleomycin, doxorubicin) or reactive oxygen species (e.g., H₂O₂).<br /> Figure 3:<br /> Why do TET2 protein levels appear stronger in acinar cells? Additionally, the predominant cellular localization of TET2 seems to be cytoplasmic. Can the authors clarify or expand on this observation?<br /> Figure 4:<br /> The data on the impact of TET2 insufficiency in vivo is compelling. There are several quality control experiments to validate their model and main hypothesis (That T2t2 expression increases with aging in beta-cells). Here, authors have the right system to validate their initial Tet2 protein dynamics in the mouse, since they have a KO mouse model. Here, it would be useful to co-stain Tet2 with insulin and glucagon, to infer the dynamics of Tet2 in the two most abundant islet cell types.<br /> Figure 5:<br /> The upregulation of β-cell identity genes in the KO mouse model raises an important question: Is this effect due to an actual increase in gene expression or simply a higher proportion of β cells? Quantifying β-cell mass and performing gene expression analyses on FACS-sorted β cells would help address this. Additionally, the staining panels lack quantification. For instance, GLUT2 staining appears cytoplasmic when it should be membranous. The authors focus on cellular senescence, but does apoptosis increase in wild-type mice under a high-fat diet (HFD)? Including animals on a low-fat diet (LFD) for comparison would add valuable context.<br /> Figure 6:<br /> The data suggest an increase in cell numbers in TET2-overexpressing cells. Does this indicate an effect on β-cell proliferation? Quantification would provide clarity.<br /> Figure 8:<br /> The rationale for focusing on H4K16ac is insufficiently discussed. What is the mechanism linking TET2-induced changes to decreased H4K16ac levels? Including a more thorough explanation in the introduction and discussion would enhance the manuscript.<br /> Figure 9:<br /> The introduction lacks any discussion of H4K16ac or MOF. The discussion paragraph (lines 530-540) that elaborates on these points should instead be moved to the introduction to improve the manuscript's flow. Furthermore, the authors should cite their 2022 paper on H4K16ac as part of the rationale for focusing on this histone modification.

      Minor Comments:<br /> The manuscript would benefit from language refinement. Examples include:<br /> Line 183: Replace "the blood included" with a more precise description.<br /> Line 315: "treated with RNA seq" should be rephrased to clarify methodology (e.g., "analyzed via RNA sequencing").<br /> Line 456: Replace "expression of H4K16ac" with "levels of H4K16ac."<br /> Line 496: The phrase "can solve scientific problems from multiple dimensions" sounds vague and overly broad; consider rephrasing to be more specific.

    1. Ady Endre: Menekülés az Úrhoz

      Menekülés az Úrhoz

      ``` Be szép a régi kép, a tiszta, Be szép volt a világon élni, Be szép volt az a lázadó, Mégis uras, szent Össze-Vissza.

      Imádkozni is tudtunk néha, De mindenképp Istené voltunk, Nem-akartan és nem-tudón, Legbőszebb óránk se volt léha.

      Be szépeket elhittünk akkor És a Poklot hogy elfeledtük És most a Pokol muzsikál: Fülünkben száz és szörnyű akkord. Megszakadt szép imádkozásunk, Pedig valahogyan: van Isten, Nem nagyon törődik velünk, De betakar, ha nagyon fázunk.

      Imádkozzunk, hogy higyve higgyünk: Van Isten, de vigyáz Magára, Van Isten s tán éppen olyas, Kilyenekben valaha hittünk.

      Adjuk Neki hittel magunkat, Ő mégiscsak legjobb Kisértet, Nincs már semmi hinnivaló, Higgyünk hát a van-vagy-nincs Úrnak.

      Mert ő mégis legjobb Kisértet S mert szörnyüséges, lehetetlen, Hogy senkié vagy emberé Az Élet, az Élet, az Élet.

      ```

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment

      This study offers a useful treatment of how the population of excitatory and inhibitory neurons integrates principles of energy efficiency in their coding strategies. The analysis provides a comprehensive characterisation of the model, highlighting the structured connectivity between excitatory and inhibitory neurons. However, the manuscript provides an incomplete motivation for parameter choices. Furthermore, the work is insufficiently contextualized within the literature, and some of the findings appear overlapping and incremental given previous work.

      We are genuinely grateful to the Editors and Reviewers for taking time to provide extremely valuable suggestions and comments, which will help us to substantially improve our paper. We decided to do our very best to implement all suggestions, as detailed in the point-by-point rebuttal letter below. We feel that our paper has improved considerably as a result. 

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review): 

      Summary: Koren et al. derive and analyse a spiking network model optimised to represent external signals using the minimum number of spikes. Unlike most prior work using a similar setup, the network includes separate populations of excitatory and inhibitory neurons. The authors show that the optimised connectivity has a like-to-like structure, leading to the experimentally observed phenomenon of feature competition. They also characterise the impact of various (hyper)parameters, such as adaptation timescale, ratio of excitatory to inhibitory cells, regularisation strength, and background current. These results add useful biological realism to a particular model of efficient coding. However, not all claims seem fully supported by the evidence. Specifically, several biological features, such as the ratio of excitatory to inhibitory neurons, which the authors claim to explain through efficient coding, might be contingent on arbitrary modelling choices. In addition, earlier work has already established the importance of structured connectivity for feature competition. A clearer presentation of modelling choices, limitations, and prior work could improve the manuscript.

      Thanks for these insights and for this summary of our work.  

      Major comments:

      (1) Much is made of the 4:1 ratio between excitatory and inhibitory neurons, which the authors claim to explain through efficient coding. I see two issues with this conclusion: (i) The 4:1 ratio is specific to rodents; humans have an approximate 2:1 ratio (see Fang & Xia et al., Science 2022 and references therein); (ii) the optimal ratio in the model depends on a seemingly arbitrary choice of hyperparameters, particularly the weighting of encoding error versus metabolic cost. This second concern applies to several other results, including the strength of inhibitory versus excitatory synapses. While the model can, therefore, be made consistent with biological data, this requires auxiliary assumptions.

      We now describe better the ratio of numbers of E and I neurons found in real data, as suggested. The first submission already contained an analysis of how the optimal ratio of E vs I neuron numbers depends in our model on the relative weighting of the loss of E and I neurons and on the relative weighting of the encoding error vs the metabolic cost in the loss function (see Fig. 7E). We revised the text on page 12 describing Fig. 7E. 

      To allow readers to form easily a clear idea of how the weighting of the error vs the cost may influence the optimal network configuration, we now present how optimal parameters depend on the weighting in a systematic way, by always including this type of analysis when studying all other model parameters (time constants of single E and I neurons, noise intensity, metabolic constant, ratio of mean I-I to E-I connectivity). These results are shown on the Supplementary Fig. S4 A-D and H, and we comment briefly on each of them in Results sections (pages 9, 10, 11 and 12) that analyze each of these parameters.  

      Following this Reviewer’s comment, we now included a joint analysis of network performance relative to the ratio of E-I neuron numbers and the ratio of mean I-I to E-I connectivity (Fig. 7J). We found a positive correlation between optima values of these two ratios. This implies that a lower ratio of E-I neuron numbers, such as a 2:1 ratio in human cortex mentioned by the reviewer, predicts lower optimal ratio of I-I to E-I connectivity and thus weaker inhibition in the network. We made sure that this finding is suitably described in revision (page 13).

      (2) A growing body of evidence supports the importance of structured E-I and I-E connectivity for feature selectivity and response to perturbations. For example, this is a major conclusion from the Oldenburg paper (reference 62 in the manuscript), which includes extensive modelling work. Similar conclusions can be found in work from Znamenskiy and colleagues (experiments and spiking network model; bioRxiv 2018, Neuron 2023 (ref. 82)), Sadeh & Clopath (rate network; eLife, 2020), and Mackwood et al. (rate network with plasticity; eLife, 2021). The current manuscript adds to this evidence by showing that (a particular implementation of) efficient coding in spiking networks leads to structured connectivity. The fact that this structured connectivity then explains perturbation responses is, in the light of earlier findings, not new.

      We agree that the main contribution of our manuscript in this respect is to show how efficient coding in spiking networks can lead to structured connectivity implementing lateral inhibition similar to that proposed in the recent studies mentioned by the Reviewer. We apologize if this was not clear enough in the previous version. We streamlined the presentation to make it clearer in revision.  We nevertheless think it useful to report the effects of perturbations within this network because these results give information about how lateral inhibition works in our network. Thus, we kept presenting it in the revised version, although we de-emphasized and simplified its presentation. We now give more emphasis to the novelty of the derivation of this connectivity rule from the principles of efficient coding (pages 4 and 6). We also describe better (page 8) what the specific results of our simulated perturbation experiments add to the existing literature.

      (3) The model's limitations are hard to discern, being relegated to the manuscript's last and rather equivocal paragraph. For instance, the lack of recurrent excitation, crucial in neural dynamics and computation, likely influences the results: neuronal time constants must be as large as the target readout (Figure 4), presumably because the network cannot integrate the signal without recurrent excitation. However, this and other results are not presented in tandem with relevant caveats.

      We improved the Limitations paragraph in Discussion, and also anticipated caveats in tandem with results when needed, as suggested. 

      We now mention the assumption of equal time constants between the targets and readouts in the Abstract. 

      We now added the analysis of the network performance and dynamics as a function of the time constant of the target (t<sub>x</sub>) to the Supplementary Fig S5 (C-E). These results are briefly discussed in text on page 13. The only measure sensitive to t<sub>x</sub> is the encoding error of E neurons, with a minimum at t<sub>x</sub> =9 ms, while I neurons and metabolic cost show no dependency. Firing rates, variability of spiking as well as the average and instantaneous balance show no dependency on t<sub>x</sub>. We note that t<sub>x</sub> = t, with t=1/l the time constant of the population readout (Eq. 9), is an assumption we use when we derive the model from the efficiency objective (Eq. 18 to 23). In our new and preliminary work (Koren, Emanuel, Panzeri, Biorxiv 2024), we derived a more general class of models where this assumption is relaxed, which gives a network with E-E connectivity that adapts to the time constant of the stimulus. Thus, the reviewer is correct in the intuition that the network requires E-E connectivity to better integrate target signals with a different time constant than the time constant of the membrane. We now better emphasize this limitation in Discussion (page 16).

      (4) On repeated occasions, results from the model are referred to as predictions claimed to match the data. A prediction is a statement about what will happen in the future – but most of the “predictions” from the model are actually findings that broadly match earlier experimental results, making them “postdictions”.

      This distinction is important: compared to postdictions, predictions are a much stronger test because they are falsifiable. This is especially relevant given (my impression) that key parameters of the model were tweaked to match the data.

      We now comment on every result from the model as either matching earlier experimental results, or being a prediction for experiments. 

      In Section “Assumptions and emergent properties of the efficient E-I network derived from first principles”, we report (page 4) that neural networks have connectivity structure that relates to tuning similarity of neurons (postdiction). 

      In Section “Encoding performance and neural dynamics in an optimally efficient E-I network” we report (page 5) that in a network with optimal parameters, I neurons have higher firing rate than E neurons (postdiction), that single neurons show temporally correlated synaptic currents (postdiction) and that the distribution of firing rates across neurons is log-normal (postdiction). 

      In Section “Competition across neurons with similar stimulus tuning emerging in efficient spiking networks” we report (page 6)  that the activity perturbation of E neurons induces lateral inhibition on other E neurons, and that the strength of lateral inhibition depends on tuning similarity (postdiction). We show that activity perturbation of E neurons induces lateral excitation in I neurons (prediction). We moreover show that the specific effects of the perturbation of neural activity rely on structured E-I-E connectivity (prediction for experiments, but similar result in Sadeh and Clopath, 2020). We show strong voltage correlations but weak spike-timing correlations in our network (prediction for experiments, but similar result in Boerlin et al. 2013). 

      In Section “The effect of structured connectivity on coding efficiency and neural dynamics”, we report (page 7) that our model predicts a number of differences between networks with structured and unstructured (random) connectivity. In particular, structured networks differ from unstructured ones by showing better encoding performance, lower metabolic cost, weaker variance over time in the membrane potential of each neuron, lower firing rates and weaker average and instantaneous balance of synaptic currents.

      In Section “Weak or no spike-triggered adaptation optimizes network efficiency”, we report (page 9) that our model predicts better encoding performance in networks with adaptation compared to facilitation. Our results suggest that adaptation should be stronger in E compared to I (PV+) neurons (postdiction). In the same section, we report (page 10) that our results suggest that the instantaneous balance is a better predictor of model efficiency than average balance (prediction).

      In Section “Non-specific currents regulate network coding properties”, we report (page 10) that our model predicts that more than half of the distance between the resting potential and firing threshold is taken by external currents that are unrelated to feedforward processing (postdiction). We also report (page 11) that our model predicts that moderate levels of uncorrelated (additive) noise is beneficial for efficiency (prediction for experiments, but similar results in Chalk et al., 2016, Koren et al., 2017, Timcheck et al. 2022).

      In Section “Optimal ratio of E-I neuron numbers and of mean I-I to E-I synaptic efficacy coincide with biophysical measurements”, we predict the optimal ratio of E to I neuron numbers to be 4:1 (postdiction) and the optimal ratio of mean I-I to E-I connectivity to be 3:1 (postdiction). Further, we report (page 13) that our results predict that a decrease in the ratio of E-I neuron numbers is accompanied with the decrease in the ratio of mean I-I to E-I connectivity. 

      Finally, in Section “Dependence of efficient coding and neural dynamics on the stimulus statistics”, we report (page 13) that our model predicts that the efficiency of the network has almost no dependence on the time scale of the stimulus (prediction). 

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In this work, the authors present a biologically plausible, efficient E-I spiking network model and study various aspects of the model and its relation to experimental observations. This includes a derivation of the network into two (E-I) populations, the study of single-neuron perturbations and lateral-inhibition, the study of the effects of adaptation and metabolic cost, and considerations of optimal parameters. From this, they conclude that their work puts forth a plausible implementation of efficient coding that matches several experimental findings, including feature-specific inhibition, tight instantaneous balance, a 4 to 1 ratio of excitatory to inhibitory neurons, and a 3 to 1 ratio of I-I to E-I connectivity strength. It thus argues that some of these observations may come as a direct consequence of efficient coding.

      Strengths:

      While many network implementations of efficient coding have been developed, such normative models are often abstract and lacking sufficient detail to compare directly to experiments. The intention of this work to produce a more plausible and efficient spiking model and compare it with experimental data is important and necessary in order to test these models.

      In rigorously deriving the model with real physical units, this work maps efficient spiking networks onto other more classical biophysical spiking neuron models. It also attempts to compare the model to recent single-neuron perturbation experiments, as well as some longstanding puzzles about neural circuits, such as the presence of separate excitatory and inhibitory neurons, the ratio of excitatory to inhibitory neurons, and E/I balance. One of the primary goals of this paper, to determine if these are merely biological constraints or come from some normative efficient coding objective, is also important.

      Though several of the observations have been reported and studied before (see below), this work arguably studies them in more depth, which could be useful for comparing more directly to experiments.

      Thanks for these insights and for the kind words of appreciation of the strengths of our work.  

      Weaknesses:

      Though the text of the paper may suggest otherwise, many of the modeling choices and observations found in the paper have been introduced in previous work on efficient spiking models, thereby making this work somewhat repetitive and incremental at times. This includes the derivation of the network into separate excitatory and inhibitory populations, discussion of physical units, comparison of voltage versus spike-timing correlations, and instantaneous E/I balance, all of which can be found in one of the first efficient spiking network papers (Boerlin et al. 2013), as well as in subsequent papers. Metabolic cost and slow adaptation currents were also presented in a previous study (Gutierrez & Deneve 2019). Though it is perfectly fine and reasonable to build upon these previous studies, the language of the text gives them insufficient credit.

      We indeed built our work on these important previous studies, and we apologize if this was not clear enough. We thus improved the text to make sure that credit to previous studies is more precisely and more clearly given (see detailed reply for the list of changes made). 

      To facilitate the understanding on how we built on previous work, we expanded the comparison of our results with the results of Boerlin et al. (2013) about voltage correlations and uncorrelated spiking (page 7), comparison with the derivation of physical units of Boerlin et al. (2013) (page 3), discussion of how results on the ratio of the number of E to I neurons relate  to Calaim et al (2022) and Barrett et al. (2016) (page 16), and comment on the previous work by Gutierrez and Deneve about adaptation (page 8).  

      Furthermore, the paper makes several claims of optimality that are not convincing enough, as they are only verified by a limited parameter sweep of single parameters at a time, are unintuitive and may be in conflict with previous findings of efficient spiking networks. This includes the following. 

      Coding error (RMSE) has a minimum at intermediate metabolic cost (Figure 5B), despite the fact that intuitively, zero metabolic cost would indicate that the network is solely minimizing coding error and that previous work has suggested that additional costs bias the output. 

      Coding error also appears to have a minimum at intermediate values of the ratio of E to I neurons (effectively the number of I neurons) and the number of encoded variables (Figures 6D, 7B). These both have to do with the redundancy in the network (number of neurons for each encoded variable), and previous work suggests that networks can code for arbitrary numbers of variables provided the redundancy is high enough (e.g., Calaim et al. 2022). 

      Lastly, the performance of the E-I variant of the network is shown to be better than that of a single cell type (1CT: Figure 7C, D). Given that the E-I network is performing a similar computation as to the 1CT model but with more neurons (i.e., instead of an E neuron directly providing lateral inhibition to its neighbor, it goes through an interneuron), this is unintuitive and again not supported by previous work. These may be valid emergent properties of the E-I spiking network derived here, but their presentation and description are not sufficient to determine this.

      With regard to the concern that our previous analyses considered optimal parameter sets determined with a sweep of a single parameter at a time, we have addressed this issue in two ways. First, we presented (Figure 6I and 7J and text on pages 11 and 13) results of joint sweeps of variations of pairs of parameters whose joint variations are expected to influence optimality in a way that cannot be understood varying one parameter at a time. These new analyses complement the joint parameter sweep of the time constants of single E and I neurons (t<sub>r</sub><sup>E</sup> and t<sub>r</sub><sup>I</sup>) that has already been presented in Fig. 5A (former Fig. 4A). Second, we conducted, within a reasonable/realistic range of possible variations of each individual parameter, a Monte-Carlo random joint sampling (10000 simulations with 20 trials each) of all 6 model parameters that we explored in the paper. We presented these new results on Fig. 2 and discuss it on pages 5-6. 

      The Reviewer is correct in stating that the error (RMSE) exhibits a counterintuitive minimum as a function of the metabolic constant despite the fact that, intuitively, for vanishing metabolic constant the network is solely minimizing the coding error (Fig. 6B). In our understanding, this counterintuitive finding is due to the presence of noise in the membrane potential dynamics. In the presence of noise, a non-vanishing metabolic constant is needed to suppress “inefficient” spikes purely induced by noise that do not contribute to coding and increase the error. This gives rise to a form of “stochastic resonance”, where the noise improves detection of the signal coming from the feedforward currents. We note that the metabolic constant and the noise variance both appear in the non-specific external current (Eq. 29f in Methods), and, thus, a covariation in their optimal values is expected. Indeed, we find that the optimal metabolic constant monotonically increases as a function of the noise variance, with stronger regularization (larger beta) required to compensate for larger variability (larger sigma) (Fig. 6I). Finally, we note that a moderate level of noise (which, in turn, induces a non-trivial minimum of the coding error as a function of beta) in the network is optimal. The beneficial effect of moderate levels of noise on performance in networks with efficient coding has been shown in different contexts in previous work (Chalk et al. 2016, Koren and Deneve, 2017). The intuition is that the noise prevents the excessive synchronization of the network and insufficient single neuron variability that decrease the performance. The points above are now explained in the revised text on page 11.

      The Reviewer is also correct in stating that the network exhibits an optimal performance for intermediate values of the number of I neurons and the number of encoded features. In our understanding, the optimal number of encoded features of M=3 arises simply because all the other parameters were optimized for those values of M. The purpose of those analyses was not to state that a network optimally encodes only a given number of features, but how a network whose parameters are optimized for a given M perform reasonably well when M is varied. We clarify this on page 13 of Results in Discussion on page 16. In the same Discussion paragraph we refer also to the results of Calaim et al mentioned by the Reviewer. 

      To address the concern about the comparison of efficiency between the E-I and the 1CT model, we took advantage of the Reviewer’s suggestions to consider this issue more deeply. In revision, we now compare the efficiency of the 1CT model with the E population of the E-I model (Fig. 8H). This new comparison changes the conclusion about which model is more efficient, as it shows the 1CT model is slightly more efficient than the E-I model. Nevertheless, the E-I model performance is more robust to small variations of optimal parameters, e.g., it exhibits biologically plausible firing rates for non-optimal values of the metabolic constant. See also the reply to point 3 of the Public Review of Reviewer 2 for more detail. We added these results and the ensuing caveats for the interpretation of this comparison on Page 14, and also revised the title of the last subsection of Results.  

      Alternatively, the methodology of the model suggests that ad hoc modeling choices may be playing a role. For example, an arbitrary weighting of coding error and metabolic cost of 0.7 to 0.3, respectively, is chosen without mention of how this affects the results. Furthermore, the scaling of synaptic weights appears to be controlled separately for each connection type in the network (Table 1), despite the fact that some of these quantities are likely linked in the optimal network derivation. Finally, the optimal threshold and metabolic constants are an order of magnitude larger than the synaptic weights (Table 1). All of these considerations suggest one of the following two possibilities. One, the model has a substantial number of unconstrained parameters to tune, in which case more parameter sweeps would be necessary to definitively make claims of optimality. Or two, parameters are being decoupled from those constrained by the optimal derivation, and the optima simply corresponds to the values that should come out of the derivation.

      We thank the reviewer for bringing about these important questions.

      In the first submission, we presented both the encoding error and the metabolic cost separately as a function of the parameters, so that readers could get an understanding of how stable optimal parameters would be to the change of the relative weighting of encoding error and metabolic cost. We specified this in Results (page 5) and we kept presenting separately encoding and metabolic terms in the revision.

      However, we agree that it is important to present the explicit quantification on how the optimal parameters may depend on g<sub>L</sub>. In the first submission, we showed the analysis for all possible weightings in case of two parameters for which we found this analysis was the most relevant – the ratio of neuron numbers (Fig. 7E, Fig. 6E in first submission) and the optimal number of input features M (see last paragraph on page 13 and Fig. 8D). We now show this analysis also for the rest of studied model parameters in the Supplementary Fig. S4 (A-D and H). This is discussed on pages 9, 10,11 and 12.

      With regard to the concern that the scaling of synaptic weights should not be controlled separately for each connection type in the network, we agree and we would like to clarify that we did not control such scaling separately. Apologies if this was not clear enough. From the optimal analytical solution, we obtained that the connectivity scales with the standard deviation of decoding weights (s<sub>w</sub><sup>E</sup> and s<sub>w</sub><sup>I</sup>) of the pre and postsynaptic populations (Methods, Eq. 32). We studied the network properties as a function of the ratio of average I-I to E-I connectivity (Fig. 7 F-I; Supplementary Fig. S4 D-H), which is equivalent to the ratio of standard deviations s<sub>w</sub><sup>I</sup> /s<sub>w</sub><sup>E</sup> (see Methods, Eq. 35). We clarified this in text on page 12.

      Next, it is correct that our synaptic weights are an order of magnitude smaller than the metabolic constant. We analysed a simpler version of the network that has the coding and dynamics identical to our full model (Methods, Eq. 25) but without the external currents. We found that the optimal parameters determining the firing threshold in such a simpler network were biologically implausible (see Supplementary Text 2 and Supplementary Table S1). We considered as another simple solution the rescaling of the synaptic efficacy such as to have biologically plausible threshold. However, that gave implausible mean synaptic efficacy (see Supplementary Text 2).  Thus, to be able to define a network with biologically plausible firing threshold and mean synaptic efficacy, we introduced the non-specific external current. After introducing such current, we were able to shift the firing threshold to biologically plausible values while keeping realistic values of mean synaptic efficacy. Biologically plausible values for the firing threshold are around 15 -– 20 mV above the resting potential (Constantinople and Bruno, 2013), which is the value that we have in our model. A plausible value for the average synaptic strength is between a fraction of one millivolt to a couple of millivolts (Constantinople & Bruno, 2013, Campagnola et al. 2022), which also corresponds to values that the synaptic weights take. The above results are briefly explained in the revised text on page 4.

      Finally, to study the optimality of the network when changing multiple parameters at a time, we added a new analysis with Monte-Carlo random joint sampling (10.000 parameter sets with 20 trials for each set) of all 6 model parameters that we explored in the paper. We compared (Fig 2) the so-obtained results of each simulation with those obtained from the understanding gained from varying one or two parameters at a time (optimal parameters reported in Table 1 and used throughout the paper).  We found (Fig. 2) that the optimal configuration in Table 1 was never improved by any other simulations we performed, and that the first three random simulations that came the closest to the optimal one of Table 1 had stronger noise intensity but also stronger metabolic cost than the configuration on Table 1. The second, third and fourth configurations had longer time constants of both E and I single neurons (adaptation time constants). Ratio of E-I neuron numbers and of I-I to E-I connectivity in the second, third and fourth best configuration were either jointly increased or decreased with respect to our configuration. These results are reported on Fig. 2 and in Tables 2-3 and they are discussed in Results (page 5).

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      In their paper the authors tackle three things at once in a theoretical model: how can spiking neural networks perform efficient coding, how can such networks limit the energy use at the same time, and how can this be done in a more biologically realistic way than previous work?

      They start by working from a long-running theory on how networks operating in a precisely balanced state can perform efficient coding. First, they assume split networks of excitatory (E) and inhibitory (I) neurons. The E neurons have the task to represent some lower dimensional input signal, and the I neurons have the task to represent the signal represented by the E neurons. Additionally, the E and I populations should minimize an energy cost represented by the sum of all spikes. All this results in two loss functions for the E and I populations, and the networks are then derived by assuming E and I neurons should only spike if this improves their respective loss. This results in networks of spiking neurons that live in a balanced state, and can accurately represent the network inputs.

      They then investigate in-depth different aspects of the resulting networks, such as responses to perturbations, the effect of following Dale's law, spiking statistics, the excitation (E)/inhibition (I) balance, optimal E/I cell ratios, and others. Overall, they expand on previous work by taking a more biological angle on the theory and showing the networks can operate in a biologically realistic regime.

      Strengths:

      (1) The authors take a much more biological angle on the efficient spiking networks theory than previous work, which is an essential contribution to the field.

      (2) They make a very extensive investigation of many aspects of the network in this context, and do so thoroughly.

      (3) They put sensible constraints on their networks, while still maintaining the good properties these networks should have.

      Thanks for this summary and for these kind words of appreciation of the strengths of our work.  

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The paper has somewhat overstated the significance of their theoretical contributions, and should make much clearer what aspects of the derivations are novel. Large parts were done in very similar ways in previous papers. Specifically: the split into E and I neurons was also done in Boerlin et al (2008) and in Barrett et al (2016). Defining the networks in terms of realistic units was already done by Boerlin et al (2008). It would also be worth it to discuss Barrett et al (2016) specifically more, as there they also use split E/I networks and perform biologically relevant experiments.

      We improved the text to make sure that credit to previous studies is more precisely and more clearly given (see rebuttal to the specific suggestions of Reviewer 2 for a full list).

      We apologize if this was not clear enough in the previous version. 

      With regard to the specific point raised here about the E-I split, we revised the text on page 2. With regard to the realistic units, we revised the text on page 3. Finally, we commented on relation between our results and results of the study by Barrett et al. (2016) on page 16.

      (2) It is not clear from an optimization perspective why the split into E and I neurons and following Dale's law would be beneficial. While the constraints of Dale's law are sensible (splitting the population in E and I neurons, and removing any non-Dalian connection), they are imposed from biology and not from any coding principles. A discussion of how this could be done would be much appreciated, and in the main text, this should be made clear.

      We indeed removed non-Dalian connections because Dale’s law is a major constraint for biological plausibility. Our logic was to consider efficient coding within the space of networks that satisfy this (and other) biological plausibility constraints. We did not intend to claim that removing the non-Dalian connections was the result of an analytical optimization. We clarified this in revision (page 4).

      (3) Related to the previous point, the claim that the network with split E and I neurons has a lower average loss than a 1 cell-type (1-CT) network seems incorrect to me. Only the E population coding error should be compared to the 1-CT network loss, or the sum of the E and I populations (not their average). In my author recommendations, I go more in-depth on this point.

      We carefully considered these possibilities and decided to compare only the E population of the E-I model with the 1-CT model. On Fig.8G (7C of the first submission), E neurons have a slightly higher error and cost compared to the 1CT network. In the revision, we compared the loss of E neurons of the E-I model with the loss of the 1-CT model. Using such comparison, we found that the 1CT network has lower loss and is more efficient compared to E neurons of the E-I model. We revised Figure 8H and text on page 14 to address this point. 

      (4) While the paper is supposed to bring the balanced spiking networks they consider in a more experimentally relevant context, for experimental audiences I don't think it is easy to follow how the model works, and I recommend reworking both the main text and methods to improve on that aspect.

      We tried to make the presentation of the model more accessible to a non-computational audience in the revised paper. We carefully edited the text throughout to make it as accessible as possible. 

      Assessment and context:

      Overall, although much of the underlying theory is not necessarily new, the work provides an important addition to the field. The authors succeeded well in their goal of making the networks more biologically realistic, and incorporating aspects of energy efficiency. For computational neuroscientists, this paper is a good example of how to build models that link well to experimental knowledge and constraints, while still being computationally and mathematically tractable. For experimental readers, the model provides a clearer link between efficient coding spiking networks to known experimental constraints and provides a few predictions.

      Thanks for these kind words. We revised the paper to make sure that these points emerge more clearly and in a more accessible way from the revised paper.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Referring to the major comments:

      (1) Be upfront about particular modelling choices and why you made them; avoid talk of a "striking/surprising", etc. ability to explain data when this actually requires otherwise-arbitrary choices and auxiliary assumptions. Ideally, this nuance is already clear from the abstract.

      We removed all the "striking/surprising" and similar expressions from the text. 

      We added to the Abstract the assumption of equal time constants of the stimulus and of the membrane of E and I neurons and the assumption of the independence of encoded stimulus features.

      In revision, we performed additional analyses (joint parameter sweeps, Monte-Carlo joint sampling of all 6 model parameters) providing additional evidence that the network parameters in Table 1 capture reasonably well the optimal solution. These are reported on Figs. 2, 6I and 7J and in Results (pages 5, 11 and 13). See rebuttal to weaknesses of the public review of the Referee 2 for details.

      (2) Make even more of an effort to acknowledge prior work on the importance of structured E-I and I-E connectivity.

      We have revised the text (page 4) to better place our results within previous work on structured E-I and I-E connectivity.

      (3) Be clear about the model's limitations and mention them throughout the text. This will allow readers to interpret your results appropriately.

      We now comment more on model's limitations, in particular the simplifying assumption about the network's computation (page 16), the lack of E-E connectivity (page 3), the absence of long-term adaptation (page 10), and the simplification of only having one type of inhibitory neurons (page 16). 

      (4) Present your "predictions" for what they are: aspects of the model that can be made consistent with the existing data after some fitting. Except in the few cases where you make actual predictions, which deserve to be highlighted.

      We followed the suggestion of the reviewer and distinguished cases where the model is consistent with the data (postdictions) from actual predictions, where empirical measurements are not available or not conclusive. We compiled a list of predictions and postdictions in response to the point 4 of Reviewer 1. In revision, we now comment about every property of the model as either reproducing a known property of biological networks (postdiction) or being a prediction. We improved the text in Results on pages 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 to accommodate these requests.

      Minor comments and recommendations

      It's a sizable list, but most can be addressed with some text edits.

      (1) The image captions should give more details about the simulations and analyses, particularly regarding sample sizes and statistical tests. In Figure 5, for example, it is unclear if the lines represent averages over multiple signals and, if so, how many. It's probably not a single realization, but if it is, this might explain the otherwise puzzling optimal number of three stimuli. Box plots visualize the distribution across simulation trials, but it's not clear how many. In Figure 7d, a star suggests statistical significance, but the caption does not mention the test or its results; the y-axis should also have larger limits.

      All statistical results were computed on 100 or 200 simulation trials, depending on the figure, with duration of the trial of 1 second of simulated time. To compute statistical results in Fig. 1, we used 10 trials with duration of 10 seconds for each trial. Each trial consisted of M independent realizations of Ornstein-Uhlenbeck (OU) processes as stimuli, independent noise in the membrane potential and an independent draw of tuning parameters, such that the results are general over specific realization of these random variables. Realizations of the OU processes were independent across stimulus dimensions and across trials. We added this information in the caption of each figure. 

      The optimal number of M=3 stimuli is the result of measuring the performance of the network in 100 simulation trials (for each parameter value), thus following the same procedure as for all other parameters. Boxplots on Fig. 8G-H were also generated from results computed in 100 simulation trials, which we have now specified in the caption of the figure, together with the statistical test used for assessing the significance (twotailed t-test). We also enlarged the limits of Fig. 8H (7D in the previous version).

      (2) The Oldenburg paper (reference 62) finds suppression of all but nearby neurons in response to two- photon stimulation of small neural ensembles (instead of single neurons, as in Chettih & Harvey). This isn't perfectly consistent with the model's results, even though the Oldenburg experiments seem more relevant given the model's small size, and strong connectivity/high connection probability between similarly tuned neurons. What might explain the potential mismatch?

      We sincerely apologize for not having been precise enough on this point when comparing our model against Chettih & Harvey and Oldenburg et al. We corrected the sentence (page 6) to remove the claim that our model reproduces both. 

      We speculate that the discrepancy between perturbing our model and the Oldenburg data may arise from the lack of E-E connectivity in our model. Synaptic connections between E neurons with similar selectivity could create an enhancement instead of suppression between neuronal pairs with very similar tuning. We added a sentence about this in the section with perturbation experiments “Competition across neurons with similar stimulus tuning emerging in efficient spiking networks” (page 7) where we discuss this limitation of our model. We feel that this example shows the utility to derive some perturbation results from our model, as not all networks with some degree of lateral inhibition will show the same perturbation results. Comparing our model's perturbation with real data perturbation results has thus some value to better appreciate strengths and limitations of our approach. 

      (3) "Previous studies optogenetically stimulated E neurons but did not determine whether the recorded neurons were excitatory or inhibitory " (p. 11). I believe Oldenburg et al. did specifically image excitatory neurons.

      The reviewer is correct about Oldenburg et al. imaging specifically excitatory neurons. We have revised this part of the Discussion (page 15). 

      (4) The authors write that efficiency is particularly achieved where adaptation is stronger in E compared to I neurons (p. 7; Figure 4). Although this would be consistent with experimental data (the I neurons in the model seem akin to fast-spiking Pv+ cells), I struggle to see it in the figure. Instead, it seems like there are roughly two regimes. If either of the neuronal timescales is faster than the stimulus timescale, the optimisation fails. If both are at least as slow, optimisation succeeds.

      We agree with the reviewer that the adaptation properties of our inhibitory neurons are compatible with Pv+ cells. What is essential for determining the dynamical regime of the network is less the relation to the time constant of the stimulus (t<sub>x</sub>) but rather the relation between the time constant of the population readout (t, which is also the membrane time constant) and the time constant of the single neuron (t<sub>r</sub><sup>y</sup> for y=E and y=I; see Eq. 23, 25 or 29e). The relation between t and t<sub>r</sub><sup>y</sup> determines if single neurons generate spike-triggered adaptation (t<sub>r</sub><sup>y</sup> > t) or spike-triggered facilitation (t<sub>r</sub><sup>y</sup> < t; see Table 4). In regimes with facilitation in either E or I neurons (or both), the network performance strongly deteriorates compared to regimes with adaptation (Fig. 5A). 

      Beyond adaptation leading to better performance, we also found different effects of adaptation in E and I neurons. We acknowledge that the difference of these effects was difficult to see from the Fig. 4B in the first submission. We have now replotted results from previously shown Fig. 4B to focus on the adaptation regime only, (since the Fig. 5A already establishes that this is the regime with better performance). We also added figures showing the differential effect of adaptation in E and I cell type on the firing rate and on the average loss (Fig. 5C-D). Fig. 5B and C (top plots) show that with adaptation in E neurons, the error and the loss increase more slowly than with adaptation in I neurons. Moreover, the firing rate in both cell types decreases with adaptation in E neurons, while this is not the case with adaptation in I neurons (Fig. 5D). These results are added to the figure panels specified above and discussed in text on page 9.

      To clarify the relation between neuronal and stimulus timescale, we now also added the analysis of network performance as a function of the time constant of the stimulus t<sub>x</sub> (Supplementary Fig. S5 C-E). We found that the model's performance is optimal when the time constant of the stimulus is close to the membrane time constant t. This result is expected, because the equality of these time constants was imposed in our analytical derivation of the model (t<sub>x</sub>  = t). We see a similar decrease in performance for values of t<sub>x</sub>  that are faster and slower with respect to the membrane time constant (Supplementary Fig. S5C, top). These results are added to the figure panels specified above and discussed in text on page 13.

      (5) A key functional property of cortical interneurons is their lower stimulus selectivity. Does the model replicate this feature?

      We think that whether I neurons are less selective than E neurons is still an open question. A number of recent empirical studies reported that the selectivity of I neurons is comparable to the selectivity of E neurons (see., e.g., Kuan et al. Nature 2024, Runyan et al. Neuron 2010, Najafi et al. Neuron 2020). In our model, the optimal solution prescribes a precise structure in recurrent connectivity (see Eq. 24 and Fig. 1C(ii)) and structured connectivity endows I neurons with stimulus selectivity. To show this, we added plots of example tuning curves and the distribution of the selectivity index across E and I neurons (Fig. 8E-F) and described these new results in Results (page 14). Tuning curves in our network were similar to those computed in a previous work that addressed stimulus tuning in efficient spiking networks (Barrett et al. 2016). We evaluated tuning curves using M=3 constant stimulus features and we varied one of the features while the two others were kept fixed. We provided details on how the tuning curves and the selectivity index were computed in a new Methods subsection (“Tuning curves and selectivity index”) on page 50.

      (6) The final panels of Figure 4 are presented as an approach to test the efficiency of biological networks. The authors seem to measure the instantaneous (and time-averaged) E-I balance while varying the adaptation parameter and then correlate this with the loss. If that is indeed the approach (it's difficult to tell), this doesn't seem to suggest a tractable experiment. Also, the conclusion is somewhat obvious: the tighter the single neuron balance, the fewer unnecessary spikes are fired. I recommend that the authors clearly explain their analysis and how they envision its application to biological data.

      We indeed measured the instantaneous (and time-averaged) E-I balance while varying the adaptation parameters and then correlating this with the loss. We did not want to imply that the latter panels of Figure 4 are a means to test the efficiency or biological networks or that we are suggesting new and possibly unfeasible experiments. We see it as a way to better conceptually understand how spike triggered adaptation helps the network’s coding efficiency, by tightening the E I balance in a way that it reduces the number of unnecessary spikes. We apologize if the previous text was confusing in this respect.   We have now removed the initial paragraph of former Results Subsection (including removing the subsection title) and added new text about different effect of adaptation in E and I neurons on Page 9. We also thoroughly revised Figure 5.

      (7) The external stimuli are repeatedly said to vary (or be tracked) across "multiple time scales", which might inadvertently be interpreted as (i) a single stimulus containing multiple timescales or (ii) simultaneously presented stimuli containing different timescales. These scenarios are potential targets for efficient coding through neuronal adaptation (reference 21 in the manuscript and Pozzorini et al. Nat. Neuro. 2013), but they are not addressed in the current model. I recommend the authors clarify their statements regarding timescales (and if they're up for it, acknowledge this as a limitation).

      We thank the reviewer for bringing up this interesting point. To address the second point raised by the Reviewer (simultaneously presented stimuli containing multiple timescales), we performed new analyses to test the model with simultaneously presented stimuli that have different timescales. We found that the model encodes efficiently such stimuli.  We tested the case with a 3-dimensional stimulus where each dimension is an Ornstein-Uhlenbeck process with a different time constant. More precisely, we kept the time constant in the first dimension fixed (at 10 ms), and varied the time constant in the second and third dimension such that the time constant in the third dimension is doubled with respect to the second dimension. We plotted the encoding error in every stimulus dimension for E and I neurons (Fig. 8B, left plot) as well as the encoding error and the metabolic cost averaged across stimulus dimensions (Fig. 8B, right plot). The results are briefly described with text on page 13.

      Regarding the case i) (single stimulus containing multiple timescales), we considered two possibilities. One possibility is that timescales of the stimulus are separable, and in this case a single stimulus containing several time scales can be decomposed in several stimuli with a single time scale each. As we assign a new set of weights for each dimension of the decomposed stimulus, this case is similar to the case ii) that we already addressed. Another possibility is that timescales of the stimulus cannot be separated. This case is not covered in the present analysis and we listed it among the limitations of the model. We revised the text (page 13) around the question of multiple time scales and included the citation of Pozzorini et al. (2013). 

      (8) It is claimed that the model uses a mixed code to represent signals, citing reference 47 (Rigotti et al., Nature 2013). But whereas the model seems to use linear mixed selectivity, the Rigotti reference highlights the virtues of nonlinear mixed selectivity. In my understanding, a linearly mixed code does not enjoy the same benefits since it’s mathematically equivalent to a non-mixed code (simply rotate the readout matrix). I recommend that the authors clarify the type of selectivity used by their model and how it relates to the paper(s) they cite.

      The reviewer is correct that our selectivity is a linear mixing of input variables, and differs from the selectivity in Rigotti et al. (2013) which is non-linear. We revised the sentence on page 4 to clarify better that the mixed selectivity we consider is linear and we removed Rigotti’s citation. 

      (9) Reference 46 is cited as evidence that leaky integration of sensory features is a relevant computation for sensory areas. I don’t think this is quite what the reference shows. Instead, it finds certain morphological and electrophysiological differences between single pyramidal neurons in the primary visual cortex compared to the prefrontal cortex. Reference 46’ then goes on to speculate that these are differences relevant to sensory computation. This may seem like a quibble, but given the centrality of the objectivee function in normative theories, I think it's important to clarify why a particular objective is chosen.

      We agree that our reference of Amatrudo et al was not the best reference and that the previous text was confusing. We thus tried to improve on its clarity. We looked at the previous theoretical efficient coding papers introducing this leaky integration and we could not find in the previous theoretical work a justification of this assumption based on experimental papers. However, there is evidence that neurons in sensory structures, and in cortical association areas respond to time varying sensory evidence by summing stimuli over time with a weight that decreases steadily going back in time from the time of firing, which suggests that neurons integrate time-varying sensory features. In many cases, these integration kernels decay approximately exponentially going back in time, and several models explaining successfully perceptual readouts of neural activity work assuming leaky integration. This suggests that the mathematical approximation of leaky integration of sensory evidence, though possibly simplistic, is reasonable.  We revised the text in this respect (page 2).  

      (10) The definition of the objective function uses beta as a tuning parameter, but later parts of the text and figures refer to a parameter g_L which might only be introduced in the convex combination of Eq. 40a.

      This is correct. Parameter optimization has been performed on a weighted sum of the average encoding error and cost as given by the Eq. 39a (40a in first submission), with the weighting g<sub>L</sub> for the error versus the cost, and not the beta that is part of the objective in Eq.10. The convex combination in Eq. 39a allowed us to find a set of optimal parameters that is within biologically realistic parameter ranges, which includes realistic values for the firing threshold. The average encoding error and metabolic cost (the two terms on the right-hand side of Eq. 39a, without weighting with g<sub>L</sub>) in our network are of the same order (see Fig 8G for the E-I model where these values are plotted separately for the optimal network). Weighing the cost with optimal beta that is in the range of ~10 would have yielded a network that optimizes almost exclusively the metabolic cost and would bias the results towards solutions with poor encoding accuracy.

      To document more fully how the choice of weighting of the error with the cost (g<sub>L</sub>) affects the optimal parameters, we now added new analysis (Fig. 8D and Supplementary Fig. S4 A-D and H) showing optimal parameters as a function of this weighting. We commented on these results in the text on pages 9-11 and 12. For further details, please see also the reply to point 1 or Reviewer 1.

      (11) Figure 1J: "In E neurons, the distribution of inhibitory and of net synaptic inputs overlap". In my understanding, they are in fact identical, and this is by construction. It might help the reader to state this.

      We apologize for an unclear statement. In E neurons, net synaptic current is the sum of the feedforward current and of recurrent inhibition (Eq. 29c and Eq. 42). With our choice of tuning parameters that are symmetric around zero and with stimulus features that have vanishing mean, the mean of the feedforward current is close to zero. Because of this, the mean of the net current is negative and is close to the mean of the inhibitory current. We have clarified this in the text (page 5).

      (12) A few typos:

      -  p1. "Minimizes the encoding accuracy" should be "maximizes..."

      -  p1: "as well the progress" should be something like "as well as the progress"

      -  p.11 In recorded neurons where excitatory or inhibitory. ", "where" should be "were" - Fig3: missing parentheses (B)

      -  Fig4B: the 200 ticks on the y-scale are cut off.

      -  Panel Fig. 5a: "stimulus" should be "stimuli".

      -  Ref 24 "Efficient andadaptive sensory codes" is missing a space.

      -  p. 26: "requires" should be "required".

      -  On several occasions, the article "the" is missing.

      We thank the reviewer for kindly pointing out the typos that we now corrected.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      I would like to give the authors more details about the two main weaknesses discussed above, so that they may address specific points in the paper. First, there is the relation to previous work. Several published articles have presented very similar results to those discussed here, including references 5, 26, 28, 32, 33, 42, 43, 48, and an additional reference not cited by the authors (Calaim et al. 2022 eLife e73276). This includes:

      (1) Derivation of an E-I efficient spiking network, which is found in refs. 28, 42, 43, and 48. This is not reflected in the text: e.g., "These previous implementations, however, had neurons that did not respect Dale's law" (Introduction, pg. 1); "Unlike previous approaches (28, 48), we hypothesize that E and I neurons have distinct normative objectives...". The authors should discuss how their derivation compares to these.

      We have now fully clarified on page 3 that our model builds on the seminal previous works that introduced E-I networks with efficient coding (Supplementary text in Boerlin et al. 2013, Chalk et al. 2016, Barrett et al. 2016). 

      (2) Inclusion of a slow adaptation current: I believe this also appears in a previous paper (Gutierrez & Deneve 2019, ref. 33) in almost the exact same form, and is again not reflected in the text: "The strength of the current is proportional to the difference in inverse time constants ... and is thus absent in previous studies assuming that these time constants are equal (... ref. 33). Again, the authors should compare their derivation to this previous work.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing this out. We sincerely apologize if our previous version did not recognize sufficiently clearly that the previous work of Gutierrez and Deneve (eLife 2019; ref 33) introduced first the slow adaptation current that is similar to spike-triggered adaptation in our model. We have made sure that the revised text recognizes it more clearly. We also explained better what we changed or added with respect to this previous work (see revised text on page 8). 

      The work by Gutierrez and Deneve (2019) emphasizes the interplay between single neuron property (an adapting current in single neurons) and network property (networklevel coding through structured recurrent connections). They use a network that does not distinguish E and I neurons. Our contribution instead focuses on the adaptation in an E-I network. To improve the presentation following the Reviewer’s comment, we now better emphasize the differential effect of adaptation in E and in I neurons in revision (Fig. 5 B-D). Moreover, Gutierrez and Deneve studied the effect of adaptation on slower time scales (1 or 2 seconds) while we study the adaptation on a finer time scale of tens of milliseconds. The revised text detailed this is reported on Page 8.

      (3) Background currents and physical units: Pg. 26: "these models did not contain any synaptic current unrelated to feedforward and recurrent processing" and "Moreover previous models on efficient coding did not thoroughly consider physical units of variables" - this was briefly described in ref. 28 (Boerlin et al. 2013), in which the voltage and threshold are transformed by adding a common constant, and additional aspects of physical units are discussed.

      It is correct that Boerlin et al (2013) suggested adding a common constant to introduce physical units. We now revised the text to make clearer the relation between our results and the results of Boerlin et al. (2013) (page 3). In our paper, we built on Boerlin et al. (2013) and assigned physical units to computational variables that define the model's objective (the targets, the estimates, the metabolic constant, etc.). We assigned units to computational variables in such a way that physical variables (such as membrane potential, transmembrane currents, firing thresholds and resets) have the correct physical units.  We have now clarified how we derived physical units in the section of Results where we introduce the biophysical model (page 3) and specified how this derivation relates to the results in Boerlin et al. (2013).

      (4) Voltage correlations, spike correlations, and instantaneous E/I balance: this was already pointed out in Boerlin et al. 2013 (ref 28; from that paper: "Despite these strong correlations of the membrane potentials, the neurons fire rarely and asynchronously") and others including ref. 32. The authors mention this briefly in the Discussion, but it should be more prominent that this work presents a more thorough study of this well-known characteristic of the network.

      We agree that it would be important to comment on how our results relate to these results in Boerlin et al. (2013). It is correct that in Boerlin et al. (2013) neurons have strong correlations in the membrane potentials, but fire asynchronously, similarly to what we observe in our model. However, asynchronous dynamics in Boerlin et al. (2013) strongly depends on the assumption of instantaneous synaptic transmission and time discretization, with a “one spike per time bin” rule in numerical implementation. This rule enforces that at most one spike is fired in each time bin, thus actively preventing any synchronization across neurons. If this rule is removed, their network synchronizes, unless the metabolic constant is strong enough to control such synchronization to bring it back to asynchronous regime (see ref. 36). Our implementation does not contain any specific rule that would prevent synchronization across neurons. We now cite the paper by Boerlin and colleagues and briefly summarize this discussion when we describe the result of Fig. 3D on page 7. 

      (5) Perturbations and parameters sweep: I found one previous paper on efficient spiking networks (Calaim et al. 2022) which the authors did not cite, but appears to be highly relevant to the work presented here. Though the authors perform different perturbations from this previous study, they should ideally discuss how their findings relate to this one. Furthermore, this previous study performs extensive sweeps over various network parameters, which the authors might discuss here, when relevant. For example, on pg. 8, the authors write “We predict that, if number of neurons within the population decreases, neurons have to fire more spikes to achieve an optimal population readout” – this was already shown in Calaim et al. 2022 Figure 5, and the authors should mention if their results are consistent.

      We apologize for not being aware of Calaim et al. (2022) when we submitted the first version of our paper. This important study is now cited in the revised version. We have now, as suggested, performed sweeps of multiple parameters inspired by the work of Calaim. This new analysis is described extensively in reply to Weaknesses in the Public Review of reviewer 2 and is found in Fig 2, 6I and 7J and described on pages 5,11 and 13.

      The Reviewer is also correct that the compensation mechanism that applies when changing the ratio of E-I neuron numbers is similar to the one described in Barrett et al. (2016) and related to our claim “if number of neurons within the population decreases, neurons have to fire more spikes to achieve an optimal population readout”. We have now added (page 11) that this prediction is consistent with the finding of Barrett et al. (2016).

      With regard to the dependence of optimal coding properties on the number of neurons, we have tried to better describe similarities and differences with our work and that of Calaim et al as well as with the work of Barrett et al. (2016) which reports highly relevant results. These additional considerations are summarized in a paragraph in Discussion (page 16).

      (6) Overall, the authors should distinguish which of their results are novel, which ones are consistent with previous work on efficient spiking networks, and which ones are consistent in general with network implementations of efficient and sparse coding. In many of the above cases, this manuscript goes into much more depth and study of each of the network characteristics, which is interesting and commendable, but this should be made clear. In clarifying the points listed above, I hope that the authors can better contextualize their work in relation to previous studies, and highlight what are the unique characteristics of the model presented here.

      We made a number of clarifications of the text to provide better contextualization of our model within existing literature and to credit more precisely previous publications. This includes commenting on previous studies that introduced separate objective functions of E and I neurons (page 2), spike-triggered adaptation (page 8), physical units (page 3), and changes in the number of neurons in the network (page 16). 

      Next, there are the claims of optimal parameters. As explained on pg. 35 (criterion for determining optimal model parameters), it appears to me that they simply vary each parameter one at a time around the optimal value. This argument appears somewhat circular, as they would need to know the optimal parameters before starting this sweep. In general, I find these optimality considerations to be the most interesting and novel part of the paper, but the simulations are relatively limited, so I would ask the authors to either back them up with more extensive parameter sweeps that consider covariations in different parameters simultaneously (as in Calaim et al. 2022). Furthermore, the authors should make sure that they are not breaking any of the required relationships between parameters necessary for the optimization of the loss function. Again, some of the results (such as coding error not being minimized with zero metabolic cost) suggests that there might be issues here. 

      We thank the reviewer for this insightful suggestion. We have now added a joint sweep of all relevant model parameters using Monte-Carlo parameter search with 10.000 iterations. We randomly drew parameter configurations from predetermined parameter ranges that are detailed in the newly added Table 2. Parameters were sampled from a uniform distribution. We varied all the six model parameters studied in the paper (metabolic constant, noise intensity, time constant of single E and I neurons, ratio of E to I neurons and ratio of the mean I-I to E-I connectivity).  We now present these results on a new Figure 2. We did not find any set of parameters with lower loss than the parameters in Table 1 when the weighting of the error with the cost was in the following range: 0.4<g<sub>L</sub><0.81 (Fig. 2C). While our large but finite Monte-Carlo random sampling does not fully prove that the configuration we selected as optimal (on Table 1) is a global optimum, it shows that this configuration is highly efficient. Further, and as detailed in the rebuttal to the Weaknesses of the Public Review of Referee 2, analyses of the near optimal solutions are compatible with the notion (resulting from the join parameter sweep studies that we added to Figures 6 and 7) that network optimality may be influenced by joint covariations in parameters. These new results are reported in Results (page 5, 11 and 13) and in Figure 2, 6I an 7J.

      Some more specific points:

      (1) In general, I find it difficult to understand the scaling of the RMSE, cost, and loss values in Figures 4-7. Why are RMSE values in the range of 1-10, whereas loss and cost values are in the range of 0-1? Perhaps the authors can explicitly write the values of the RMSE and loss for the simulation in Figure 1G as a reference point.

      Encoding error (RMSE), metabolic cost (MC) and average loss for a well performing network are within the range of 1-10 (see Fig. 8G or 7C in the first submission). To ease the visualization of results, we normalized the cost and the loss on Figs. 6-8 in order to plot them on the same figure (while the computation of the optima is done following the Eq. 39 and is without normalization). We have now explicitly written the values of RMSE, MC and the average loss (non-normalized) for the simulation in Fig. 1D on page 5, as suggested by the reviewer. We have also revised Fig. 4 and now show the absolute and not the relative values of the RMSE and the MC (metabolic cost). 

      (2) Optimal E-I neuron ratio of 4:1 and efficacy ratio of 3:1: besides being unintuitive in relation to previous work, are these two optimal settings related to one another? If there are 4x more excitatory neurons than inhibitory neurons, won't this affect the efficacy ratio of the weights of the two populations? What happens if these two parameters are varied together?

      Thanks for this insightful point. Indeed, the optima of these two parameters are interdependent and positively correlated - if we decrease the E-I neuron ratio, the optimal efficacy ratio decreases as well. To better show this relation we added figures with 2dimensional parameter search (Fig. 7J) where we varied jointly the two ratios. The red cross on the right figure marks the optimal ratios used as optimal parameters in our study. These finding are discussed on page 13.

      (3) Optimal dimensionality of M=[1,4]: Again, previous work (Calaim et al. 2022) would suggest that efficient spiking networks can code for arbitrary dimensional signals, but that performance depends on the redundancy in the network - the more neurons, the better the coding. From this, I don't understand how or why the authors find a minimum in Figure 7B. Why does coding performance get worse for small M?

      We optimized all model parameters with M=3 and this is the reason why M=3 is the optimal number of inputs when we vary this parameter. Our network shows a distinct minimum of the encoding error as a function of the stimulus dimensionality for both E and I neurons (Fig. 8C, top). This minimum is reflected in the minimum of the average loss (Fig. 8C, bottom). The minimum of the loss is shifted (or biased) by the metabolic cost, with strong weighting of the cost lowering the optimal number of inputs. This is discussed on pages 13-14.

      Here are a list of other, more minor points, that the authors can consider addressing to make the results and text more clear:

      (1) Feedforward efficient coding models: in the introduction (pg. 1) and discussion (pg. 11) it is mentioned that early efficient coding models, such as that of Olshausen & Field 96, were purely feedforward, which I believe to be untrue (e.g., see Eq. 2 of O&F 96). Later models made this even more explicit (Rozell et al. 2008). Perhaps the authors can either clarify what they meant by this, or downplay this point.

      We sincerely apologize for the oversight present in the previous version of the text. We agree with the reviewer that the model in Olshausen and Field (1996) indeed defines a network with recurrent connections, and the same type of recurrent connectivity has been used by Rozell et al. (2008, 2013). The structure of the connectivity in Olshausen and Field (as well as in Rozell et al (2008)) is closely related to the structure of connectivity that we derived in our model. We have corrected the text in the introduction (page 1) to remove these errors.

      (2) Pg. 2 - The authors state: "We draw tuning parameters from a normal distribution...", but in the methods, it states that these are then normalized across neurons, so perhaps the authors could add this here, or rephrase it to say that weights are drawn uniformly on the hypersphere.

      We rephrased the description of how weights were determined (page 2).

      (3) Pg. 2 - "We hypothesize the time-resolved metabolic cost to be proportional to the estimate of a momentary firing rate of the neural population" - from what I can see, this is not the usual population rate, which would be an average or sum of rates across the population.

      Indeed, the time-dependent metabolic cost is not the population rate (in the sense of the sum of instantaneous firing rates across neurons), but is proportional to it by a factor of 1/t. More precisely, we can define the instantaneous estimate of the firing rate of a single neuron i as z<sub>i</sub>(t) = 1/t<sub>r</sub> r<sub>i</sub>(t) with r<sub>i</sub>(t) as in Eq. 7. We have clarified this in the revised text on page 3. 

      (4) Pg. 3: "The synaptic strength between two neurons is proportional to their tuning similarity if the tuning similarity is positive" - based on the figure and results, this appears to be the case for I-E, E-I, and I-I connections, but not for E-E connections. This should be clarified in the text. Furthermore, one reference given in the subsequent sentence (Ko et al. 2011, ref. 51), is specifically about E-E connections, so doesn't appear to be relevant here.

      We have now specified that the Eq. 24 does not describe E-E connections. We also agree that the reference (Ko et al. 2011) did not adequately support our claim and we thus removed it and revised the text on page 3 accordingly.

      (5) Pg. 3: "the relative weight of the metabolic cost over the encoding error controls the operating regime of the network" and "and an operating regime controlled by the metabolic constant" - what do you mean by operating regime here?

      We used the expression “operating regime” in the sense of a dynamical regime of the network.  However, we agree that this expression may be confusing and we removed it in revision. 

      (6) Pg. 3: "Previous studies interpreted changes of the metabolic constant beta as changes to the firing thresholds, which has less biological plausibility" - can the authors explain why this is less plausible, or ideally provide a reference for it?

      In biological networks, global variables such as brain state can strongly modulate the way neural networks respond to a feedforward stimulus. These variables influence neural activity in at least two distinct ways. One is by changing non-specific synaptic inputs to neurons, which is a network-wide effect (Destexhe and Pare, Nature Reviews Neurosci. 2003). This is captured in our model by changing the strength of the mean and fluctuations in the external currents. Beyond modulating synaptic currents, another way of modulating neural activity is by changing cell-intrinsic factors that modulate the firing threshold in biological neurons (Pozzorini et al. 2013). Previous studies on spiking networks with efficient coding interpreted the effect of the metabolic constant as changes to the firing threshold (Koren and Deneve, 2017, Gutierrez and Deneve 2019), which corresponds to cell-intrinsic factors. Here we instead propose that the metabolic constant modulates the neural activity by changing the non-specific synaptic input, homogeneously across all neurons in the network. Interpreting the metabolic constant as setting the mean of the non-specific synaptic input was necessary in our model to find an optimal set of parameters (as in Table 1) that is also biologically plausible. We revised the text accordingly (page 4).

      (7) Pg. 4: Competition across neurons: since the model lacks E-E connectivity, it seems trivial to conclude that there is competition through lateral inhibition, and it can be directly determined from the connectivity. What is gained from running these perturbation experiments?

      We agree that a reader with a good understanding of sparse / efficient coding theory can tell that there is competition across neurons with similar tuning already from the equation for the recurrent connectivity (Eq. 24). However, we presume that not all readers can see this from the equations and that it is worth showing this with simulations.

      Following the reviewer's comment, we have now downplayed the result about the model manifesting lateral inhibition in general on page 6. We have also removed its extensive elaboration in Discussion.

      One reason to run perturbation experiments was to test to what extent the optimal model qualitatively replicates empirical findings, in particular, single neuron perturbation experiments in Chettih and Harvey, 2019, without specifically tuning any of the model parameters. We found that the model reproduces qualitatively the main empirical findings, without tuning the model to replicate the data. We revised the text on page 5 accordingly.

      Further reason to run these experiments was to refine predictions about the minimal amount of connectivity structure that generates perturbation response profiles that are qualitatively compatible with empirical observations. To establish this, we did perturbation experiments while removing the connectivity structure of a particular connectivity sub-matrices (E-I, I-I or I-E; Fig. S3 F). This allowed us to determine which connectivity matrix has to be structured to observe results that qualitatively match empirical findings. We found that the structure of E-I and I-E connectivity is necessary, but not the structure of I-I connectivity. Finally, we tested partial removal of the connectivity structure where we replaced the precise (and optimal) connectivity structure and imposed a simpler connectivity rule. In the optimal connectivity, the connection strength is proportional to the tuning similarity. A simpler connectivity rule, in contrast, only specifies that neurons with similar tuning share a connection, and beyond this the connection strength is random. Running perturbation experiments in such a network obeying a simpler connectivity rule still qualitatively replicated empirical results from Chettih and Harvey (2019). This is shown on the Supplementary Fig. S2F on described on page 8.

      (8) Pg. 4: "the optimal E-I network provided a precise and unbiased estimator of the multidimensional and time-dependent target signal" - from previous work (e.g., Calaim et al. 2022), I would guess that the estimator is indeed biased by the metabolic cost. Why is this not the case here? Did you tune the output weights to remove this bias?

      Output weights were not tuned to remove the bias. On Fig. 1H in the first submission we plotted the bias for the network that minimizes the encoding error. We forgot to specify this in the text and figure caption, for which we apologize. We now replaced this figure with a new one (Fig. 1E) where we plot the bias of the network minimizing the average loss (with parameters as in Table 1). The bias of the network minimizing the error is close to zero, B^E = 0.02 and B^I = 0.03.  The bias of the network minimizing the loss is stronger and negative, B^E = -0.15 and B^I=-0.34. In the text of Results, we now report the bias of both networks (i.e., optimizing the encoding error and optimizing the loss). We also added a plot showing trial-averaged estimates and a time-dependent bias in each stimulus dimension (Supplementary figure S1 F). Note that the network minimizing the encoding error requires a lower metabolic constant (β = 6) than the network optimizing the loss (β=14), however, the optimal metabolic cost in both networks is nonzero. We revised the text and explained these points on page 5.

      (9) Pg. 4: "The distribution of firing rates was well described by a log-normal distribution" - I find this quite interesting, but it isn't clear to me how much this is due to the simulation of a finitetime noisy input. If the neurons all have equal tuning on the hypersphere, I would expect that the variability in firing is primarily due to how much the input correlates with their tuning. If this is true, I would guess that if you extend the duration of the simulation, the distribution would become tighter. Can you confirm that this is the stationary distribution of the firing rates?

      We now simulated the network with longer simulation time (10 seconds of simulated time instead of 2 seconds used previously) and also iterated the simulation across 10 trials to report a result that is general across random draws of tuning parameters (previously a single set of tuning parameters was used). The reviewer is correct that the distribution of firing rates of E neurons has become tighter with longer simulation time, but distributions remain log-normal. We also recomputed the coefficient of variation (CV) using the same procedure. We updated these plots on Fig. 1F.

      (10) Pg. 4: "We observed a strong average E-I balance" - based on the plots in Figure 1J, the inputs appear to be inhibition-dominated, especially for excitatory neurons. So by what criterion are you calling this strong average balance?

      The reviewer is correct about the fact that the net synaptic input to single neurons in our optimal network shows excess inhibition and the network is inhibition-dominated, so we revised this sentence (page 5) accordingly.  

      (11) Pg. 4: Stronger instantaneous balance in I neurons compared to E neurons - this is curious, and I have two questions: (1) can the authors provide any intuition or explanation for why this is the case in the model? and (2) does this relate to any literature on balance that might suggest inhibitory neurons are more balanced than excitatory neurons?

      In our model, I neurons receive excitatory and inhibitory synaptic currents through synaptic connections that are precisely structured. E neurons receive structured inhibition and a feedforward current. The feedforward current consists of M=3 independent OU processes projected on the tuning vectors of E neurons w<sub>i</sub><sup>E</sup>. We speculate that because the synaptic inhibition and feedforward current are different processes and the 3 OU inputs are independent, it is harder for E neurons to achieve the instantaneous balance that would be as precise as in I neurons. While we think that the feedforward current in our model reflects biologically plausible sensory processing, it is not a mechanistic model of feedforward processing. In biological neurons, real feedforward signals are implemented as a series of complex feedforward synaptic inputs from downstream areas, while the feedforward current in our model is a sum of stimulus features, and is thus a simplification of a biological process that generates feedforward signals. We speculate that a mechanistic implementation of the feedforward current could increase the instantaneous balance in E neurons.  Furthermore, the presence of EE connections could potentially also increase the instantaneous balance in E neurons. We revised the Discussion about these important questions that lie on the side of model limitations and could be advanced in future work. We could not find any empirical evidence directly comparing the instantaneous balance in E versus I neurons.  We have reported these considerations in the revised Discussion (page 16).

      (12) Pg. 5, comparison with random connectivity: "Randomizing E-I and I-E connectivity led to several-fold increases in the encoding error as well as to significant increases in the metabolic cost" and Discussion, pg. 11: "the structured network exhibits several fold lower encoding error compared to unstructured networks": I'm wondering if these comparisons are fair. First, regarding activity changes that affect the metabolic cost - it is known that random balanced networks can have global activity control, so it is not straightforward that randomizing the connectivity will change the metabolic cost. What about shuffling the weights but keeping an average balance for each neuron's input weights? Second, regarding coding error, it is trivial that random weights will not map onto the correct readout. A fairer comparison, in my opinion, would at least be to retrain the output weights to find the best-fitting decoder for the threedimensional signal, something more akin to a reservoir network.

      Thank you for raising these interesting questions. The purpose of comparing networks with and without connectivity structure was to observe causal effects of the connectivity structure on the neural activity. We agree that the effect on the encoding error is close to trivial, because shuffling of connectivity weights decouples neural dynamics from decoding weights. We have carefully considered Reviewer's suggestions to better compare the performance of structured and unstructured networks. 

      In reply to the first point, we followed the reviewer's suggestion and compared the optimal network with a shuffled network that matched the optimal network in its average balance. This was achieved by increasing the metabolic constant, decreasing the noise intensity and slightly decreasing the feedforward stimulus (we did not find a way to match the net current in both cell types by changing a single parameter). As we compared the metabolic cost between the optimal and the shuffled network with matched average balance, we still found lower metabolic cost in the optimal network, even though the difference was now smaller. We replaced Fig. 3B from the first submission with these new results in Fig. 4B and commented on them in the text (page 7).

      In reply to the second point, we followed reviewer’s suggestion and compared the encoding error (RMSE) of the optimal network and the network with shuffled connectivity where decoding weights are trained such as to optimally reconstruct the target signal. As suggested, we now analyzed the encoding error of the networks using decoding weights trained on the set of spike trains generated by the network using linear least square regression to minimize the decoding error. For a fair and quantitative comparison and because we did not train decoding weights of our structured model, we performed this same analysis using spike trains generated by networks with structured and shuffled recurrent connectivity. We found that the encoding error is smaller in the E population and much smaller in the I population in the structured compared to the random network. Decoding weights found numerically in the optimal network approach uniform distribution of weights that we used in our model (Fig. 4A, right). In contrast, decoding weights obtained from the random network do not converge to a uniform distribution, but instead form a much sparser distribution, in particular in I neurons (Supplementary Fig. S3 A). These additional results reported in the above mentioned figures are discussed in text on page 14.  

      (13) Pg. 5: "a shift from mean-driven to fluctuation-driven spiking" and Pg. 11 "a network structured as in our efficient coding solution operates in a dynamical regime that is more stimulus-driven, compared to an unstructured network that is more fluctuation driven" - I would expect that the balanced condition dictates that spiking is always fluctuation driven. I'm wondering if the authors can clarify this.

      We agree with the reviewer that networks with and without connectivity structure are fluctuation-driven, because in a mean-driven network the mean current must be suprathreshold (Ahmadian and Miller, 2021), which is not the case of either network. We removed the claim of the change from mean to fluctuation driven regime in the revised paper. We are grateful to the Reviewer for helping us tighten the elaboration of our findings.

      (14) Pg. 5: "suggesting that variability of spiking is independent of the connectivity structure" - the literature of balanced networks argues against this. Is this not simply because you have a noisy input? Can you test this claim?

      We thank the reviewer for the suggestion. We tested this claim by measuring the coefficient of variation in networks receiving a constant stimulus. In particular, we set the same strength in each of the M=3 stimulus dimensions and set the stimulus amplitude such as to match the firing rate of the optimal network in response to the OU stimulus. We computed the coefficient of variation in 200 simulation trials.  The removal of connectivity structure did not cause significant change of the coefficient of variation in a network driven by a constant stimulus (Fig. 4E). These additional results are discussed in text on page 7. 

      We also taken the suggestion about variability of spiking being independent of the connectivity structure. We removed this claim in the revision, because we only tested a couple of specific cases where the connectivity is structured with respect to tuning similarity (fully structured, fully unstructured and partially unstructured networks). This is not exhaustive of all possible structures that recurrent connectivity may have.

      (15) Pg. 6: "we also removed the connectivity structure only partially, keeping like-to-like connectivity structure and removing all structure beyond like-to-like" - can you clarify what this means, perhaps using an equation? What connectivity structure is there besides like-to-like?

      In the optimal model, the strength of the synapse between a pair of neurons is proportional to the tuning similarity of the two neurons, Y<sub>ij</sub> proportional to J<sub>ij</sub> for Y<sub>ij</sub> >0 (see Eq. 24 and Fig. 1C(ii)). Besides networks with optimal connectivity, we also tested networks with a simpler connectivity rule. Such a simpler rule prescribes a connection if the pair of neurons has similar tuning (Y<sub>ij</sub> >0), and no connection otherwise. The strength of the connection following this simpler connectivity rule is otherwise random (and not proportional to pairwise tuning similarity Y<sub>ij</sub> as it is in the optimal network). We clarified this in the revision (page 8), also by avoiding the term “like-to-like” for the second type of networks, which could indeed be prone to confusion.

      (16) Pgs. 6-7: "we indeed found that optimal coding efficiency is achieved with weak adaptation in both cell types" and "adaptation in E neurons promotes efficient coding because it enforces every spike to be error- correcting" - this was not clear to me. First, it appears as though optimal efficiency is achieved without adaptation nor facilitation, i.e., when the time constants are all equal. Indeed, this is what is stated in Table 1. So is there really a weak adaptation present in the optimal case? Second, it seems that the network already enforces each spike to be errorcorrecting without adaptation, so why and how would adaptation help with this?

      We agree with the Reviewer that the network without adaptation in E and I neurons is already optimal. It is also true that most spikes in an optimal network should already be error-correcting (besides some spikes that might be caused by the noise). However, regimes with weak adaptation in E neurons remain close to optimality. Spike-triggered facilitation, meanwhile, ads spikes that are unnecessary and decrease network efficiency. We revised the Fig.5 (Fig. 4 in first submission) and replaced 2-dimensional plots in Fig.4 C-F with plots that show the differential effect of adaptation in E neurons (top) and in I neurons (bottom plots) for the measures of the encoding error (RMSE), the efficiency (average loss) and the firing rate (Fig. 5B-D). On the new Fig. 5C it is evident that the loss of E and I population grows slowly with adaptation in E neurons (top) while it grows faster with adaptation in I neurons (bottom). These considerations are explained in revised text on page 9.

      (17) Pg. 7: "adaptation in E neurons resulted in an increase of the encoding error in E neurons and a decrease in I neurons" - it would be nice if the authors could provide any explanation or intuition for why this is the case. Could it perhaps be because the E population has fewer spikes, making the signal easier to track for the I population?

      We agree that this could indeed be the case. We commented on it in revision (page 9).

      (18) Pg. 7: "The average balance was precise...with strong adaptation in E neurons, and it got weaker when increasing the adaptation in I neurons (Figure 4E)" - I found the wording of this a bit confusing. Didn't the balance get stronger with larger I time constants?

      By increasing the time constant of I neurons, the average imbalance got weaker (closer to zero) in E neurons (Fig. 5G, left), but stronger (further away from zero) in I neurons (Fig. 5G, right). We have revised the text on page 9 to make this clearer.

      (19) Pg. 7: Figure 4F is not directly described in the text.

      We have now added text (page 9) commenting on this figure in revision.

      (20) Pg. 8: "indicating that the recurrent network dynamics generates substantial variability even in the absence of variability in the external current" -- how does this observation relate to your earlier claim (which I noted above) that "variability of spiking is independent of connectivity structure"?

      We agree that the claim about variability of spiking being independent of connectivity structure was overstated and we thus removed it. The observation that we wanted to report is that both structured and unstructured networks have very similar levels of variability of spiking of single neurons. The fact that much of the variability of the optimal network is generated by recurrent connections is not incompatible. We revised the related text (page 11) for clarity.

      (21) Pg. 9: "We found that in the optimally efficient network, the mean E-I and I-E synaptic efficacy are exactly balanced" - isn't this by design based on the derivation of the network?

      True, the I-E connectivity matrix is the transpose of the E-I connectivity matrix, and their means are the same by the analytical solution. This however remains a finding of our study. We have clarified this in the revised text (page 12).

      (22) Pg. 30, eq. 25: the authors should verify if they include all possible connectivity here, or if they exclude EE connectivity beforehand.

      We now specify that the equation for recurrent connectivity (Eq. 24, Eq. 25 in first submission) does not include the E-E connectivity in the revised text (page 41).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Essential

      (1)  Currently, they measure the RMSE and cost of the E and I population separately, and the 1CT model. Then, they average the losses of the E and I populations, and compare that to the 1CT model, with the conclusion that the 1CT model has a higher average loss. However, it seems to me that only the E population should be compared to the 1CT model. The I population loss determines how well the I population can represent the E population representation (which it can do extremely well). But the overall coding accuracy of the network of the input signal itself is only represented by the E population. Even if you do combine the E and I losses, they should be summed, not averaged. I believe a more fair conclusion would be that the E/I networks have generally slightly worse performance because of needing to follow Dale's law, but are still highly efficient and precise nonetheless. Of course, I might be making a critical error somewhere above, and happy to be convinced otherwise!

      We carefully considered the reviewer's comment and tested different ways of combining the losses of the E and I population. We decided to follow the reviewer's suggestion and to compare the loss of the E population of the E-I model with the loss of the one cell type model. As evident already from the Fig. 8G, such comparison indeed changes the result to make the 1CT model more efficient. Also, the sum of losses of E and I neurons results in the 1CT model being more efficient than the E-I model. Note, however, the robustness of the E-I model to changes in the metabolic constant (Fig. 6C, top). The firing rates of the E-I model stay within physiological ranges for any value of the metabolic constant, while the firing rate of the 1CT model skyrocket for the metabolic constant that is lower than optimal (Fig. 8I).

      We added to Results (page 14) a summary of these findings.

      (2) The methods and main text should make much clearer what aspects of the derivation are novel, and which are not novel (see review weaknesses for specifics).

      We specified these aspects, as discussed in more detail in the above reply to point 4 of the public review of Reviewer 1.

      Request:

      If possible, I would like to see the code before publication and give recommendations on that (is it easy to parse and reproduce, etc.)

      We are happy to share the computer code with the reviewer and the community. We added a link to our public repository containing the computer code that we used for simulations and analysis to the preprint and submission (section “Code availability” on page 17). 

      Suggestions:

      (1) I believe that for an eLife audience, the main text is too math-heavy at the beginning, and it could be much simplified, or more effort could be made to guide the reader through the math.

      We tried to do our best to improve the clarity of description of mathematical expressions in the main text.

      (2) Generally vector notation makes network equations for spiking neurons much clearer and easier to parse, I would recommend using that throughout the paper (and not just in the supplementary methods).

      We now use vector notation throughout the paper whenever we think that this improves the intelligibility of the text. 

      (3) In the discussion or at the end of the results adding a clear section summarizing what the minimal requirements or essential assumptions are for biological networks to implement this theory would be helpful for experimentalists and theorists alike.

      We have added such a section in Discussion (page 15). 

      (5) I think the title is a bit too cumbersome and hard to parse. Might I suggest something like 'Efficient coding and energy use in biophysically realistic excitatory-inhibitory spiking networks' or 'Biophysically constrained excitatory-inhibitory spiking networks can efficiently implement efficient coding'.

      We followed reviewer’s suggestion and changed the title to “Efficient coding in biophysically realistic excitatory-inhibitory spiking networks.”

      (6) How the connections were shuffled exactly was not clear to me in how it was described now. Did they just take the derived connectivity, and shuffle the connections around? I recommend a more explicit methods section on it (I might have missed it).

      Indeed, the connections of the optimal network were randomly shuffled, without repetition, between all neuronal pairs of a specific connectivity matrix. This allows to preserve all properties of the distribution of connectivity weights and only removes the structure of the connectivity, which is precisely what we wanted to test. We now added a section in Methods (“Removal of connectivity structure”) on pages 51-52 where we explain how the connectivity structure is removed.

      (7) Figure 1 sub-panel ordering was confusing to read (first up down, then left right). Not sure if re- arranging is possible, but perhaps it could be A, B, and C at the top, with subsublabels (i) and (ii). Might become too busy though.

      We followed this suggestion and rearranged the Fig. 1 as suggested by the reviewer. 

      (8) Equation 3 in the main text should specify that 'y' stands for either E or I.

      This has been specified in the revision (page 3). 

      (9) Figure 1D shows a rough sketch of the types of connectivities that exist, but I would find it very useful to also see the actual connection strengths and the effect of enforcing Dale's law.

      We revised this figure (now Fig. 1B (ii)) and added connection strengths as well as a sketch of a connection that was removed because of Dale’s law.

      (10) The main text mentions how the readout weights are defined (normal distributions), but I think this should also be mentioned in the methods.

      Agreed. We indeed had Methods section “Parametrization of synaptic connectivity (page 46), where we explain how readout weights are defined. We apologize if a call on this section was not salient enough in the first submission. We made sure that the revised main text contains a clear pointer to this Methods section for details. 

      (11) The text seems to mix ‘decoding weights’ and ‘readout weights’.

      Thanks for this suggestion to use consistent language. We opted for ‘decoding weights’ and removed ‘readout weights’.

      (12) The way the paper is written makes it quite hard to parse what are new experimental predictions, and what results reproduce known features. I wonder if some sort of 'box' is possible with novel predictions that experimentalists could easily look at and design an experiment around.

      We now revised the text. We clarified for every property of the model if this property is a prediction of facts that were not yet experimentally tested or if it accounts for previously observed properties of biological neurons. Please see the reply to point 4 of Reviewer 1. 

      (13) Typo's etc.:

      Page 5 bottom -- ("all") should have one of the quotes change direction (common latex typo, seems to be the only place with the issue).

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out this typo that has been removed in revision.

    1. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      Trutti and colleagues used 7T fMRI to identify brain regions involved in subprocesses of updating the content of working memory. Contrary to past theoretical and empirical claims that the striatum serves a gating function when new information is to be entered into working memory, the relevant contrast during a reference-back task did not reveal significant subcortical activation. Instead, the experiment provided support for a role of subcortical (and cortical) regions in other subprocesses.

      Strengths

      The use of high-field imaging optimized for subcortical regions in conjunction with the theory-driven experimental design mapped well to the focus on a hypothetical striatal gating mechanism.

      Consideration of multiple subprocesses and the transparent way of identifying these, summarized in a table, will make it easy for future studies to replicate and extend the present experiment.

      Weaknesses:

      The reference-back paradigm seems to only require holding a single letter in working memory (X or O; Fig 1). It remains unclear how such low demand on working memory influences associated fMRI updating responses. It is also not clear whether reference-switch trials with 'same' response truly taxes working-memory updating (and gate opening), as the working-memory content/representation does not need to be updated in this case. These potential design issues, together with the rather low number of experimental trials, raise concerns about the demonstrated absence of evidence for striatal gate opening. Adding an experiment with higher working-memory demand and additional trials could strengthen the evidence for the authors present claim

      The authors provide a motivation for their multi-step approach to fMRI analyses. Still, the three subsections of fMRI results (3.2.1; 3.2.2; 3.3.3) for 4 subprocesses each (gate opening, gate closing, substitution, updating mode) made the Results section complex and it was not always easy to understand why some but not other approaches revealed significant effects (as the midbrain in gate opening).<br /> It could be helpful to readers to further revise the Results section and/or more clearly convey the analytic strategy.

      The many references to the role of dopamine are interesting, but the discussion of dopaminergic pathways and signals remains speculative and must be confirmed in future studies (e.g., with PET imaging).

      Several relevant studies were not cited (e.g., Dahlin et al., 2008, Science; Bäckman et al., 2011, Science).

    2. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      eLife Assessment 

      This useful study uses high-field fMRI to test the hypothesized involvement of subcortical structure, particularly the striatum, in WM updating. It overcomes limitations in prior work by applying high-field imaging with a more precise definition of ROIs. Thus, the empirical observations are of use to specialists interested in working memory gating or the reference back task specifically. However, evidence to support the broader implications, including working memory gating as a construct, is incomplete and limited by the ambiguities in this task and its connection to theory. 

      We would like to express our gratitude to the editor and the reviewers for their time and effort in providing insightful and valuable comments. We greatly value the critical perspective on the relationship between fMRI contrasts and the PBWM model. We hope to have addressed all the last critical points and changed the manuscript according to the reviewers’ suggestions. Furthermore, we would like to point out that the behavioral results section was edited, as a double-check of the results section revealed some erroneous descriptive statistics.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1:

      Summary: 

      Trutti and colleagues used 7T fMRI to identify brain regions involved in subprocesses of updating the content of working memory. Contrary to past theoretical and empirical claims that the striatum serves a gating function when new information is to be entered into working memory, the relevant contrast during a reference-back task did not reveal significant subcortical activation. Instead, the experiment provided support for the role of subcortical (and cortical) regions in other subprocesses. 

      Strengths: 

      The use of high-field imaging optimized for subcortical regions in conjunction with the theory-driven experimental design mapped well to the focus on a hypothetical striatal gating mechanism. 

      Consideration of multiple subprocesses and the transparent way of identifying these, summarized in a table, will make it easy for future studies to replicate and extend the present experiment.   

      Weaknesses: 

      The reference-back paradigm seems to only require holding a single letter in working memory (X or O; Figure 1). It remains unclear how such low demand on working memory influences associated fMRI updating responses. It is also not clear whether reference-switch trials with 'same' response truly tax working-memory updating (and gate opening), as the working-memory content/representation does not need to be updated in this case. These potential design issues, together with the rather low number of experimental trials, raise concerns about the demonstrated absence of evidence for striatal gate opening. 

      We acknowledge that a limitation of our study is that the task involved relatively low working memory demands. It remains to be clarified whether the same neural mechanisms would be engaged under a higher working memory load, and this is an important consideration for future research.

      We also fully agree that it is uncertain whether reference-switch trials requiring a ‘same’ (or ‘match’ ) response truly engage working memory updating (or gate opening), as the working memory content or representation does not need to be altered in these cases. This concern is addressed in detail in the discussion section titled “No Support for Striatal Gate Opening” (see second paragraph).

      Regarding our references to dopamine, we completely agree with the reviewer about the speculative nature of these discussions. In response, we thoroughly reviewed the manuscript and made revisions where necessary to ensure that we consistently emphasize the speculative nature of our commentary on dopamine and dopaminergic pathways.

      Finally, we acknowledge the concerns about the design and the relatively low number of trials. However, our fMRI analyses of other reference-back task contrasts did reveal activity in the striatum and other subcortical ROIs. This suggests that our scanning protocol and task design are sufficiently sensitive to detect striatal activity, even with the limited number of trials.

      The authors provide a motivation for their multi-step approach to fMRI analyses. Still, the three subsections of fMRI results (3.2.1; 3.2.2; 3.3.3) for 4 subprocesses each (gate opening, gate closing, substitution, updating mode) made the Results section complex and it was not always easy to understand why some but not other approaches revealed significant effects (as the midbrain in gate opening). 

      We thank the reviewer for this important remark and the opportunity to clarify our approach. We conducted whole-brain general linear models (GLMs) to generate a comprehensive wholebrain map of brain activity for each contrast. However, the whole-brain statistical parametric mappings (SPMs) involve data smoothing, which–while improving signal detection–reduces spatial precision. This is especially problematic in smaller or closely adjacent regions, where spatial blurring can merge distinct activations or make localized signals appear more widespread.

      Additionally, the statistical thresholds in whole-brain analyses may detect weak or borderline significant effects, whereas ROI-wise GLMs, which assume uniform behavior across the entire region, may miss the same effects if the signal is weak or inconsistent across the ROI.

      Since our primary focus was on the subcortex, we relied more heavily on ROI-wise GLMs, which were limited to subcortical regions. We prioritized findings that were supported by either the ROI-wise GLMs or by both GLM analyses. For instance, the midbrain activations found in our whole-brain analysis but not in the ROI analysis may result from smoothing (where activation from neighboring regions spreads into midbrain voxels) or from functional heterogeneity within the ROI, which can obscure localized activations when averaged in the ROI-wise GLMs. Inferences from each GLM approach, along with their discrepancies, are discussed for each contrast throughout the discussion, with additional details on the clusterbased ROI analysis in the discussion section titled “Dopaminergic involvement in working memory substitution” (see third paragraph).

      We acknowledge that the results section may seem complex, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

      Reviewer #2:

      Summary: 

      The study reported by Trutti et al. uses high-field fMRI to test the hypothesized involvement of subcortical structure, particularly striatum, in WM updating. Specifically, participants were scanned while performing the Reference Back task (e.g., Rac-Lubashevsky and Kessler, 2016), which tests constructs like working memory gate opening and closing and substitution. While striatal activation was involved in substitution, it was not observed in gate opening. This observation is cited as a challenge to cortico-striatal models of WM gating, like PBWM (Frank and O'Reilly, 2005). 

      Strengths: 

      While there have been prior fMRI studies of the reference back task (Nir-Cohen et al., 2020), the present study overcomes limitations in prior work, particularly with regard to subcortical structures, by applying high-field imaging with a more precise definition of ROIs. And, the fMRI methods are careful and rigorous, overall. Thus, the empirical observations here are useful and will be of interest to specialists interested in working memory gating or the reference back task specifically. 

      Weaknesses: 

      I am less persuaded by the more provocative points regarding the challenge it presents to models like PBWM, made in several places by the paper. As detailed below, issues with conceptual clarity of the main constructs and their connection to models, like PBWM, along with some incomplete aspects of the results, make this stronger conclusion less compelling. 

      (1) The relationship of the Nir-Cohen et al. (2020) task analysis of the reference back task, with its contrasts like gate opening and closing, and the predictions of PBWM is far from clear to me for several reasons. 

      First, contrasts like gate opening and gate closing make strong finite state assumptions. As far as I know, this is not an assumption of PBWM, certainly not for gate opening. At a minimum, PBWM is default closed because of the tonic inhibition of cortico-thalamic dynamics by the globus pallidus. Indeed, this was even noted in the discussion of this paper, which seems to acknowledge this discrepancy, but then goes on to conclude that they have challenged the PBWM model anyway.  

      We thank the reviewer for this remark and agree that the reference-back task contrasts do not perfectly align with the predictions of the PBWM model. In the discussion section "No support for striatal gate opening," we note that our data support the PBWM model by emphasizing the central role of the basal ganglia in working memory processes. However, we acknowledge that it may not have been sufficiently clear in the manuscript that the way the reference-back task is operationalised does not allow for a precise test of the PBWM's gating predictions. To address this, we have revised the manuscript to shift focus away from framing it as a direct challenge to the PBWM model. Below, some edits are highlighted.

      ‘This contrasts with the findings of Nir-Cohen et al. (2020) and raises questions about the relationship between the gate opening process in the reference back task and the indirect striatal gating mechanism described in the PBWM model (Frank et al., 2001; Hazy et al., 2007; O’Reilly & Frank, 2006) and other neurocomputational theories (Hazy et al., 2007; Jongkees, 2020). According to these models, a dopaminergic signal in the striatum is required to trigger gating. Although the orthogonal contrasts in the referenceback task are intended to isolate working memory subprocesses inspired by models of working memory, the two gating contrasts do not fully capture the gating mechanism as originally proposed in neurocomputational models (Frank et al., 2001; Hazy et al., 2007; O’Reilly & Frank, 2006).’ (line 721-730)

      ‘Another explanation for the lack of enhanced striatal activity in gate opening challenges the conceptualization of the gating mechanism in the reference-back task, which does not accurately map onto the PBWM predictions.’ (line 746)

      ‘Moreover, despite the lack of striatal involvement during gate opening, our findings do not rule out the possibility that the PBWM model's predictions about striatal gating in working memory are correct, given the misalignment between the gate opening contrast and the PBWM’s proposal regarding striatal gating. It remains unclear whether the absence of striatal activation during gate opening trials is specific to low-demand tasks, like the reference-back task, which does not require as much gating compared to high working memory-demand tasks involving preparation for updating. Or whether the gate opening contrast does not sufficiently capture the PBWM proposed gating mechanism. Further investigation is needed to determine whether (dopamine-driven) striatal gating occurs in high-demand working memory tasks, where the gating process plays a more critical role.’

      Second, as far as I know, PBWM emphasizes go/no-go processes around constructs of input- and output-gating, rather than state shifts between gate opening and closing. While this relationship is less clear in reference back, substituting task-relevant items into working memory does appear to be an example of input gating, as modeled by PBWM. Thus, it is not clear to me why the substitution contrast would not be more of a test of input gating than the gate opening contrast, which requires assumptions that are not clear are required by the model, as noted above. 

      We fully agree with the reviewer, which is why we proposed that neural mechanisms involving the midbrain and striatum are more likely to be observed in the substitution contrast rather than the gate opening contrast.

      Third, PBWM relies on striatal mechanisms to solve the problem of selective gating, inputting, or outputting items in memory while also holding on to others. Selective gating contrasts with global gating, in which everything in memory is gated or nothing. The reference back task is a test of global gating. It is an important distinction because non-striatal mechanisms that can solve global gating, cannot solve selective gating. Indeed, this limitation of non-striatal mechanisms was the rationale for PBWM adding striatum. The connectivity of the striatum with the cortex permits this selectivity. It is not clear that the reference back task tests these selective demands in the first place. That limitation in this task was the rationale behind the recent Rac-Lubashevsky and Frank (2022) paper using the reference back 2 procedure that modifies the original reference back for selective gating. 

      We thank the reviewer for highlighting this excellent reference. We believe it holds exciting potential for future high-field fMRI studies that explore the neural mechanisms underlying selective gating.

      So, if the primary contribution of the paper is to test PBWM, as suggested by the first line of the abstract, then it is not clear that the reference back task in general, or the gate opening contrast in particular, is the best test of these predictions. Other contrasts (substitution), or indeed, tasks (reference back 2) would have been better suited. 

      We agree with the reviewer that the gate opening contrast may not be the optimal test for the PBWM model predictions. However, previous studies have found evidence of striatal gateopening mechanisms using the reference-back task, which cannot be overlooked. We hypothesized that striatal mechanisms are likely active only when working memory content requires replacement, as seen in the substitution contrast in line with the PBWM model. Additionally, the reference-back 2 task (Rac-Lubashevsky & Frank, 2021) had not yet been published when we began data collection. Exploring this task in future studies, particularly with a 7 T fMRI protocol optimized for subcortical regions, would be an exciting avenue for further investigation.

      Finally, in response to the reviewer’s remark, we have revised the abstract to remove the emphasis on challenging the PBWM model.

      (2) In general, observations of univariate activity in the striatum have been notoriously variable in the context of WM. Indeed, Chatham et al. (2014) who tested working memory output gating - notably in a direct test of the predictions of PBWM - noted this variability. They too did not observe univariate activation in the striatum associated with selective output gating. Rather they found evidence of increased connectivity between the striatum and cortex during selective output gating. They argued that one account of this difference is that striatal gating dynamics emerge from the balance between the firing of both Go and NoGo cell populations that decide whether to gate or not. It is not always clear how this balance should relate to univariate activation in the striatum. Thus, the present study might also test cortico-striatal connectivity, rather than relying exclusively on univariate activation, in their test of striatal involvement in these WM constructs. 

      We appreciate the reviewer’s insightful observation regarding the variability of univariate activity in the striatum, particularly in the context of working memory and the challenges noted by Chatham et al. (2014). We agree that striatal gating dynamics likely reflect a balance between Go and NoGo cell populations, which may not always manifest in univariate activation alone. In line with the reviewer’s suggestion, examining cortico-striatal connectivity could provide a more comprehensive understanding of striatal involvement in working memory processes, particularly selective gating.

      While our current study focused primarily on univariate activity, we recognize the importance of connectivity-based approaches and plan to incorporate functional connectivity analyses in future studies to further explore these dynamics. Such an approach, especially when combined with ultra-high-field fMRI, may offer valuable insights into the interaction between the striatum and cortex during working memory tasks.

      (3) It is concerning that there was no behavioral cost for comparison switch vs. repeat trials. This differs from with prior observations from the reference back (e.g., Nir-Cohen et al., 2020), and in general, is odd given the task switch/cue interpretation component. This failure to observe a basic behavioral effect raises a concern about how participants approached this task and how that might differ from prior reports of the reference back. If they were taking an unusual strategy, it further complicates the interpretation of these results and the implications they hold for theory. 

      We understand the reviewer’s concern regarding the lack of behavioral response time costs for comparison switch versus repeat trials, which does indeed differ from previous findings in studies such as Nir-Cohen et al. (2020). It is possible that this results from our fMRI task design, such as increased inter-trial intervals compared to behavioral studies. While this is certainly a point of concern, we believe that the neural data still provide valuable insights into the mechanisms underlying working memory gating despite the absence of a clear behavioral effect.

      In future studies, we aim to increase the number of trials and more closely align our task design with previous studies to mitigate this issue. We agree that further investigation is necessary to ensure the robustness of these effects and their theoretical implications.

      In summary, the present observations are useful, particularly for those interested in the reference back task. For example, they might call into question verbal theories and task analyses of the reference back task that tie constructs like gate-opening to striatal mechanisms. However, given the ambiguities noted above, the broader implications for models like PBWM, or indeed, other models of working memory gating, are less clear.

    1. Classification Rebalancing Ranking Sampling

      Las corporalidades son esenciales en la Inteligencia Artificial, ya que los datos utilizados reflejan las experiencias vividas de las personas. Sin embargo, estas experiencias están mediadas por atributos protegidos como género, raza o condición de discapacidad, los cuales a menudo están ausentes o mal representados en los sistemas algorítmicos. Esto limita la capacidad de los algoritmos para abordar inequidades estructurales. Por ejemplo, si un proceso de selección de personal omite mujeres en etapas iniciales, el sistema no podrá generar una representación justa más adelante.

      Traducir conceptos como equidad o no discriminación en métricas procesables es un desafío. Los algoritmos deben manejar definiciones de justicia, pero no siempre pueden satisfacerlas simultáneamente. Esto requiere soluciones que minimicen las injusticias en distintos contextos. Además, los sistemas actuales comienzan a abordar problemas como la ausencia de atributos protegidos en los datos, utilizando técnicas que implican trabajar de forma implícita con la información demográfica.

      La Inteligencia Artificial no es monolítica; es un conjunto de algoritmos interconectados que toman decisiones en varias etapas. El sesgo puede introducirse en cualquier punto, desde la preselección de datos hasta la etapa final de decisión. Por ejemplo, en procesos como la búsqueda web o la contratación, los sesgos en etapas iniciales limitan la capacidad de los algoritmos posteriores para producir resultados diversos y justos. Por ello, es crucial considerar la equidad en todas las partes del sistema, no solo en su resultado final.

    2. The Research Landscape of Debiasing AI

      Las corporalidades que han sido marginadas por género, raza u otros atributos, son fundamentales en el diseño de la Inteligencia Artificial. La selección de atributos que se consideran en un algoritmo refleja decisiones humanas sobre qué corporalidades e identidades deben ser visibilizadas y cómo deben ser representadas en los datos. Por ejemplo, en un sistema de contratación, garantizar la representación equitativa de hombres y mujeres o de personas no binarias implica reconocer y traducir estas identidades en métricas que el algoritmo pueda procesar.

      Un desafío clave en el diseño de ls Inteligencia Artificial justa es traducir conceptos sociales como la equidad en definiciones matemáticas que los algoritmos puedan implementar. Definir métricas de justicia que sean contextualmente apropiadas. Por ejemplo, en un problema de clasificación de candidatos, podría requerirse que el algoritmo produzca una lista que refleje una distribución demográfica justa basada en género o raza. Este proceso de traducción no es neutral, ya que está influido por los valores y preferencias de los responsables del diseño.

      Se destacan avances recientes que han permitido agrupar métricas de equidad en familias de definiciones, facilitando el desarrollo de meta-algoritmos. Estos frameworks no requieren rediseñar un algoritmo desde cero para cada contexto; en su lugar, aceptan definiciones específicas de justicia y producen resultados ajustados a esos criterios. Por ejemplo, al definir qué atributos proteger como género o raza y qué métrica de equidad emplear como representación igualitaria o tasas de error similares, el framework genera una solución personalizada para un caso particular.

    3. if we can strategically intervene algorithmically, we have a powerful tool to help break the cycle of discrimination.

      Las corporalidades (entendidas como los cuerpos físicos y los ensamblajes que los habitan) son intrínsecas a los datos que alimentan los sistemas de Inteligencia Artificial. Aunque los sistemas se perciban como objetivos o neutrales, los datos que los entrenan están profundamente arraigados en contextos sociales y culturales provenientes del Norte Global. La decisión de qué datos recolectar y cómo procesarlos refleja juicios humanos, que a menudo priorizan ciertas corporalidades sobre otras. Esto explica por qué ciertas Inteligencias Artificiales pueden amplificar inequidades ya existentes, como en el ejemplo de los algoritmos que ofrecen empleo mejor remunerado principalmente a hombres o a personas blancas.

      El diseño de la Inteligencia Artificial que ignora las diversidades corporales e identitarias perpetúa su invisibilización y marginalización. Surge la necesidad de considerar cómo las corporalidades se registran, interpretan y representan en los datos.

      La traducción implica transformar las experiencias humanas, incluidas las vivencias de corporalidades diversas, en datos que la Inteligencia Artificial pueda procesar. Sin embargo, esta traducción no es neutral. La selección de métricas, variables y optimizaciones refleja decisiones humanas que pueden reforzar dinámicas de poder existentes.

      ¿Qué cuerpos se incluyen o excluyen?

      Si los datos no representan adecuadamente a personas no binarias, racializadas o en condición de discapacidad, la Inteligencia Artificial no podrá abordar sus necesidades ni reconocer sus realidades.

      ¿Cómo se procesan las diferencias?

      Las corporalidades no normativas suelen ser traducidas en categorías reduccionistas o ignoradas por completo en el diseño de algoritmos, lo que perpetúa su exclusión.

      La traducción entre corporalidades y modelos computacionales es un acto político, donde los sesgos y prioridades humanos moldean la representación de la realidad.

      La Inteligencia Artificial no sólo refleja, sino que también transforma la relación entre corporalidades y sociedades al influir en oportunidades, recursos y visibilidad. La Inteligencia Artificial puede crear bucles de retroalimentación negativos, donde los sesgos iniciales en los datos refuerzan y amplifican desigualdades existentes, afectando las decisiones futuras, entre estos:

      Algoritmos que perpetúan la discriminación laboral.

      Sistemas que limitan el acceso a recursos como vivienda, educación o servicios.

      Esta capacidad de influencia también abre una oportunidad para intervenir. Al desarrollar y aplicar estrategias de desviación algorítmica (debiasing), es posible diseñar sistemas que rompan estos ciclos de discriminación. Esto requiere integrar una conciencia crítica sobre las corporalidades y su representación en los datos.

      La percepción de que la Inteligencia Artificial es imparcial desvía la atención de las formas en que las corporalidades y las experiencias humanas son fundamentales para su diseño y funcionamiento. La Inteligencia Artificial no existe separada de las dinámicas humanas, por el contrario, actúa como un espejo que amplifica tanto nuestras virtudes como nuestros sesgos.

      La construcción de Inteligencia Artificial más justa requiere:

      Reconocer las corporalidades ausentes en los datos y priorizar su inclusión.

      Redefinir los procesos de traducción para capturar la complejidad de las realidades humanas en lugar de simplificarlas.

      Intervenir estratégicamente en la Inteligencia Artificial para mitigar su impacto negativo y transformar las dinámicas sociales hacia una mayor equidad.

    1. Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      The authors employ a series of well-conceived and well-executed experiments involving photometric imaging of the dentate gyrus and raphe nucleus, as well as cell-type specific genetic manipulations of serotonergic receptors that together serve to directly implicate serotonergic regulation of dentate gyrus (DG) granule (GC) and mossy cell (MC) activity in association with an infra slow oscillation (ISO) of neural activity has been previously linked to general cortical regulation during NREM sleep and microarousals.

      Strengths:

      There are a number of novel and important results, including the modulation of dentage granule cell activity by the infraslow oscillation during NREM sleep, the selective association of different subpopulations of granule cells to microarousals (MA), the anticorrelation of raphe activity with infraslow dentate activity.

      The discussion includes a general survey of ISOs and recent work relating to their expression in other brain areas and other potential neuromodulatory system involvement, as well as possible connections with infraslow oscillations, micro arousals, and sensory sensitivity.

      Weaknesses:

      - The behavioral results showing contextual memory impairment resulting from 5-HT1a knockdown are fine, but are over-interpreted. The term memory consolidation is used several times, as well as references to sleep-dependence. This is not what was tested. The receptor was knocked down, and then 2 weeks later animals were found to have fear conditioning deficits. They can certainly describe this result as indicating a connection between 5-HT1a receptor function and memory performance, but the connection to sleep and consolidation would just be speculation. The fact that 5-HT1a knockdown also impacted DG ISOs does not establish dependency. Some examples of this are:<br /> o The final conclusion asserts "Together, our study highlights the role of neuromodulation in organizing neuronal activity during sleep and sleep-dependent brain functions, such as memory.", but the reported memory effects (impairment of fear conditioning) were not shown to be explicitly sleep-dependent.<br /> o Earlier in the discussion it mentions "Finally, we showed that local genetic ablation of 5-HT1a receptors in GCs impaired the ISO and memory consolidation". The effect shown was on general memory performance - consolidation was not specifically implicated.

      - The assertion on page 9 that the results demonstrate "that the 5-HT is directly acting in the DG to gate the oscillations" is a bit strong given the magnitude of effect shown in Fig. 6D, and the absence of demonstration of negative effect on cortical areas that also show ISO activity and could impact DG activity (see requested cortical sigma power analysis).

      - Recent work has shown that abnormal DG GC activity can result from the use of the specific Ca indicator being used (GCaMP6s). (Teng, S., Wang, W., Wen, J.J.J. et al. Expression of GCaMP6s in the dentate gyrus induces tonic-clonic seizures. Sci Rep 14, 8104 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-024-58819-9). The authors of that study found that the effect seemed to be specific to GCaMP6s and that GCaMP6f did not lead to abnormal excitability. Note this is of particular concern given similar infraslow variation of cortical excitability in epilepsy (cf Vanhatalo et al. PNAS 2004). While I don't think that the experiments need to be repeated with a different indicator to address this concern, you should be able to use the 2p GCaMP7 experiments that have already been done to provide additional validation by repeating the analyses done for the GCaMP6s photometry experiments. This should be done anyway to allow appropriate comparison of the 2p and photometry results.

      - While the discussion mentions previous work that has linked ISOs during sleep with regulation of cortical oscillations in the sigma band, oddly no such analysis is performed in the current work even though it is presumably available and would be highly relevant to the interpretation of a number of primary results including the relationship between the ISOs and MAs observed in the DG and similar results reported in other areas, as well as the selective impact of DG 5-HT1a knockdown on DG ISOs. For example, in the initial results describing the cross correlation of calcium activity and EMG/EEG with MA episodes (paragraph 1, page 4), similar results relating brief arousals to the infraslow fluctuation in sleep spindles (sigma band) have been reported also at .02 Hz associated with variation in sensory arousability (cf. Cardis et al., "Cortico-autonomic local arousals and heightened somatosensory arousability during NREMS of mice in neuropathic pain", eLife 2021). It would be important to know whether the current results show similar cortical sigma band correlations. Also, in the results on ISO attenuation following 5-HT1 knockdown on page 7 (fig. 6), how is cortical EEG affected? is ISO still seen in EEG but attenuated in DG?

      - The illustrations of the effect of 5-HT1a knockdown shown in Figure 6 are somewhat misleading. The examples in panels B and C show an effect that is much more dramatic than the overall effect shown in panel D. Panels B and C do not appear to be representative examples. Which of the sample points in panel D are illustrated in panels B, C? it is not appropriate to arbitrarily select two points from different animals for comparison, or worse, to take points from the extremes of the distributions. If the intent is to illustrate what the effect shown in D looks like in the raw data, then you need to select examples that reflect the means shown in panel D. It is also important to show the effect on cortical EEG, particularly in sigma band to see if the effects are restricted to the DG ISOs. It would also be helpful to show that MAs and their correlations as shown in Fig 1 or G as well as broader sleep architecture are not affected.

      - On page 9 of the results it states that GCs and MCs are upregulated during NREM and their activity is abruptly terminated by MAs through a 5-HT mediated mechanism. I didn't see anything showing the 5-HT dependence of the MA activity correlation. The results indicate a reduction in ISO modulation of GC activity but not the MA correlated activity. I would like to see the equivalent of Fig 1,2 G panels with the 5-HT1a manipulation.

    1. EA MPR: AE o, PURER P(c | x) *TU c, OMEN e “ALARA” (discriminative models); th A 7KMRD P(a,c) #K, REBAR P(c| a), RRB “EmoteAi” (generative models).

      先验概率:也是一种条件概率,以全事件为背景的某个事件发生的概率。是基于历史数据的统计或者背景常识得出的预判概率<br /> 后验概率:是知道结果的情况下求原因的概率,例如事件B是由A引起的,P(A|B)就是后验概率

    Annotators

    1. Data Feminism in Action

      Corporalidades y representación en los datos

      Las corporalidades están en el centro de los datos sobre feminicidio, ya que estos buscan visibilizar la violencia sistémica y letal dirigida a ciertos cuerpos, principalmente de mujeres y personas feminizadas. Sin embargo, los desafíos en la recopilación de estos datos revelan la complejidad de traducir las vivencias de estas corporalidades en registros sistemáticos. La falta de estandarización en las definiciones y categorías relacionadas con feminicidio no solo dificulta el análisis comparativo, sino que también invisibiliza ciertas experiencias de violencia que no encajan en definiciones tradicionales o normativas.

      El reconocimiento y representación precisa de estas corporalidades en los datos es un acto político: dar visibilidad a los cuerpos afectados significa reconocer su existencia y exigir justicia.

      Traducción de experiencias vividas a datos y narrativas

      La recopilación de datos sobre feminicidio no es solo un proceso técnico, es un acto de traducción entre las realidades vividas y las estructuras formales de datos. Este proceso requiere decisiones sobre qué contar, cómo clasificar, y qué significados se asignan a los datos recolectados. Las presentaciones sobre “marcos de datos del feminicidio” y “estandarización de datos” destacaron los retos asociados con la homogeneización de realidades diversas en un formato legible por sistemas globales.

      La traducción no solo ocurre a nivel técnico; también se refleja en la narrativa: los datos, cuando se presentan mediante visualizaciones o análisis espaciales, cuentan historias que humanizan las cifras y amplifican las voces de las víctimas.

      Inteligencia artificial como herramienta de intervención

      La Inteligencia Artificial desempeña un papel crucial en la recopilación, análisis y visibilización de datos sobre feminicidio. Por ejemplo, la presentación de Catherine D’Ignazio sobre un clasificador automatizado para detectar feminicidios subraya cómo los algoritmos pueden ayudar a procesar grandes volúmenes de información, como artículos de noticias. Sin embargo, el uso de IA plantea desafíos éticos y técnicos:

      Si los modelos están entrenados con datos incompletos o sesgados, pueden perpetuar exclusiones y desigualdades.

      Los algoritmos deben ser lo suficientemente flexibles para adaptarse a contextos regionales y culturales específicos sin forzar definiciones homogéneas.

      La Inteligencia Artificial también permite análisis avanzados, como el análisis espacial de feminicidios presentado en el evento, lo que abre nuevas posibilidades para comprender patrones geográficos y contextuales de violencia.

      Construcción de comunidad y visibilización

      El evento no sólo promovió el uso de datos y tecnologías, sino también la construcción de una comunidad interdisciplinaria de activistas, académicos, periodistas y funcionarios. Este enfoque reconoce que ni la tecnología ni los datos son suficientes por sí solos: el cambio requiere colaboración, solidaridad y una conciencia ética que priorice las experiencias humanas detrás de las cifras.

    2. When thinking about

      Corporalidades y su representación en los datos

      La importancia de las categorías utilizadas en los procesos de recolección de datos, ejemplifica cómo elegir el género en un formulario, puede excluir a millones de personas no binarias. Esta exclusión es un reflejo de cómo las corporalidades y las identidades son frecuentemente invisibilizadas en los sistemas normativos. Las corporalidades no normativas enfrentan barreras sistemáticas que las excluyen de ser reconocidas o contabilizadas, perpetuando la marginalización a nivel político y social.

      Los datos sobre feminicidio evidencian la importancia de considerar las particularidades de las corporalidades afectadas. Si no se registran las diversas circunstancias y contextos de los crímenes, se dejan fuera a víctimas y experiencias específicas, generando lo que se llama “datos ausentes”.

      Traducción de realidades en datos

      El proceso de traducir realidades sociales complejas, como el feminicidio, en categorías legibles para bases de datos o sistemas estadísticos, es un acto de traducción crítico. Este proceso no solo implica transferir información de un medio a otro, sino también decidir qué aspectos de esa realidad se consideran importantes, cómo se clasifican y qué se omite. Por ejemplo, en algunos casos, el acto de clasificar un asesinato como feminicidio puede depender de si se reconoce la motivación de género detrás del crimen, algo que no siempre está bien documentado o considerado por los sistemas legales.

      Esta traducción imperfecta entre la experiencia vivida y la representación numérica no solo afecta la visibilidad del problema, sino también la capacidad de diseñar políticas efectivas.

      Inteligencia Artificial como herramienta de intervención

      La inteligencia artificial tiene el potencial de transformar la manera en que estos problemas son analizados y abordados. Por un lado, puede ayudar a procesar grandes volúmenes de información, como los reportes de feminicidio generados por activistas y periodistas, detectando patrones y tendencias. Por otro lado, las Inteligencias Artificiales deben ser diseñadas con cuidado para no reproducir o amplificar sesgos existentes. Si los modelos de Inteligencia Artificial están entrenados en datos incompletos o sesgados, corren el riesgo de reforzar las mismas dinámicas de exclusión que pretenden combatir.

    1. at the southpole

      at the south pole itself, the wind is relatively weak due to the absence of significant pressure gradients... (except for katabatic flows near ice sheets, but these are not part o f the global circulation)

    1. L’exploitation du potentiel des SIA dans la sphère publique est progressive et inégale. L’étude du Conseil d’État a identifié quelques obstacles qui expliquent cette situation. Ceux-ci tiennent à la mauvaise qualité des données à disposition et au manque de moyens ou encore au risque juridique, au défaut d’acceptabilité ou encore aux questions de sécurisation de l’outil.  Même si les décideurs publics et la volonté politique peuvent fortement encourager cet usage des SIA, il est recommandé par le Conseil d’État d’être vigilant sur plusieurs points

      La importancia de la ética en el desarrollo de la IA: El texto subraya la necesidad de desarrollar una IA ética y responsable. Es fundamental establecer principios claros que guíen el desarrollo y el uso de estas tecnologías, como la transparencia, la equidad y la responsabilidad. La IA debe ser diseñada para servir al bien común y no para perpetuar desigualdades o discriminaciones.

    1. A nuestro equipo nos gustó mucho el artículo sobre el uso de la inteligencia artificial para mejorar la moralidad humana, y decidimos elegirlo porque aborda un tema actual y muy interesante" cómo la tecnología puede influir en nuestra ética" El texto analiza el libro Más (que) humanos, de Francisco Lara y Julian Savulescu, que explora cómo la IA podría ayudarnos a tomar decisiones más éticas en contextos complicados.

      Lo que más llamó nuestra atención fue el debate sobre los riesgos y beneficios de estas tecnologías. Por un lado, es prometedor que la IA pueda apoyar nuestras decisiones en problemas globales como el cambio climático o la distribución justa de recursos. Pero, por otro nos hizo reflexionar sobre los riesgos de depender demasiado de estas herramientas, como la posibilidad de que se reduzca nuestra capacidad de tomar decisiones morales por nosotros mismos.

      Elegimos este artículo porque conecta la filosofía con los retos tecnológicos actuales y plantea preguntas profundas sobre nuestra responsabilidad ética como sociedad. Nos pareció un texto que no solo informa, sino que también invita a pensar críticamente sobre el futuro.

    1. Collecting the right data with methods that ensure the right disaggregation is an important first step, but to create a more inclusive data system, these data must also be analyzed and interpreted using appropriate and efficient methods.

      Corporalidades y fuentes de datos no tradicionales

      Las fuentes no tradicionales, como registros administrativos y datos generados por la ciudadanía, pueden proporcionar información más granular sobre las corporalidades. Esto incluye indicadores relacionados con salud, género, y desigualdades espaciales o demográficas, como se observó en el caso de Nepal, donde datos geoetiquetados revelaron variaciones espaciales de desigualdades de género.

      Incorporar datos de poblaciones marginadas, como personas trans, no binarias o mujeres en comunidades rurales, puede visibilizar experiencias y desigualdades que los métodos tradicionales ignoran. Por ejemplo, análisis de violencia sexual en El Salvador demuestran cómo el análisis de registros administrativos puede desglosar patrones que afectan a grupos específicos.

      Traducción de datos y la alteración de dinámicas de poder

      La recopilación de datos generados por la ciudadanía permite reflejar mejor las realidades vividas por distintas corporalidades, particularmente en regiones o contextos donde los métodos tradicionales no capturan su complejidad. Por ejemplo, la traducción de experiencias reportadas a través de encuestas SMS debe respetar las diferencias culturales y lingüísticas de los encuestados.

      Al permitir que las comunidades participen directamente en la generación de datos, como en el proyecto de Ghana para reportar resultados en salud materno-infantil, se altera la dinámica de poder en la recopilación de datos. Este enfoque feminista reconoce las experiencias vividas y las traduce en evidencia cuantificable.

      IA como herramienta para la equidad de datos

      La Inteligencia Artificial puede detectar patrones en fuentes de datos no tradicionales, como redes sociales, imágenes satelitales y registros móviles. Estos patrones pueden revelar desigualdades relacionadas con género, ubicación o acceso a servicios, permitiendo intervenciones informadas.

      Las tecnologías de Inteligencia Artificial permiten analizar múltiples capas de desigualdad simultáneamente. Por ejemplo, combinando datos satelitales, móviles y encuestas demográficas, se pueden mapear variaciones interseccionales como la brecha de alfabetización por género y región.

      La Inteligencia Artificial puede crear datos sintéticos para suplir vacíos en áreas donde las corporalidades y sus experiencias no están representadas, siempre con atención ética para evitar reforzar sesgos.

      Desafíos éticos y metodológicos

      La recopilación de datos mediante métodos no tradicionales y herramientas de Inteligencia Artificial plantea preocupaciones sobre la privacidad, especialmente para las corporalidades en situaciones vulnerables.

      La interpretación y traducción de datos implica que el análisis automatizado puede no captar matices culturales (culturemas) o de género si no se diseñan algoritmos sensibles e inclusivos.

      Muchos gobiernos y comunidades carecen de los recursos técnicos y financieros necesarios para implementar sistemas avanzados de análisis de datos, limitando su capacidad para traducir datos en políticas inclusivas.

      Un enfoque transformador para la recopilación de datos

      Usar fuentes no tradicionales para incluir experiencias invisibilizadas, como mujeres en zonas rurales o personas no binarias.

      Garantizar que los datos recojan las perspectivas locales con sensibilidad cultural y lingüística.

      Diseñar algoritmos que no solo procesen datos, sino que también prioricen la equidad y representen realidades interseccionales.

      Implementar regulaciones claras para proteger la privacidad y asegurar que las tecnologías beneficien a las poblaciones marginadas.

    2. Addressing problems of traditional data collection

      Superar las limitaciones de los métodos tradicionales de recopilación de datos mediante enfoques inclusivos y feministas incluye la consideración de cuerpos diversos, la sensibilidad cultural y lingüística en la traducción de datos, y el uso de Inteligencia Artificial para identificar y corregir sesgos inherentes.

      Corporalidades y sesgos en la recopilación de datos

      Los métodos tradicionales tienden a homogeneizar las experiencias corporales, ignorando diferencias relacionadas con género, identidad no binaria, edad, condición de discapacidad, o situación socioeconómica. Esto invisibiliza las realidades de las mujeres y otros grupos marginados.

      Los datos recopilados a nivel de hogar ignoran desigualdades dentro del mismo, lo que perpetúa la invisibilización de corporalidades y experiencias individuales. Por ejemplo, las contribuciones económicas de mujeres y niñas suelen ser subestimadas o ignoradas.

      Las corporalidades en situaciones de vulnerabilidad extrema, como mujeres refugiadas, personas trans y no binarias, enfrentan mayores riesgos de ser omitidas. Estas exclusiones limitan la capacidad de crear políticas que respondan a sus necesidades.

      Traducción como mediadora inclusiva

      El diseño de preguntas en las encuestas refleja sesgos culturales y de género, lo que perpetúa desigualdades. Por ejemplo, las preguntas que asumen roles tradicionales, como identificar a una mujer como “ama de casa” sin considerar su trabajo remunerado, invisibilizan sus contribuciones económicas. Traducir estos términos con sensibilidad feminista puede ayudar a visibilizar estas realidades.

      La traducción debe permitir incorporar categorías de género inclusivas, como “no binario” o “otra”, asegurando que los datos reflejen corporalidades no normativas y realidades locales.

      Inteligencia artificial como herramienta inclusiva

      La Inteligencia Artificial puede identificar y mitigar sesgos en el diseño de encuestas y en la recopilación de datos al analizar patrones de exclusión. Por ejemplo, puede destacar cómo ciertas preguntas excluyen a las mujeres trans o no binarias al imponer categorías binarias de género.

      Los algoritmos pueden descomponer datos por variables interseccionales, como género, edad, ingresos y etnicidad, para revelar desigualdades invisibles en los métodos tradicionales. Esto incluye medir desigualdades dentro de los hogares y entre grupos marginados.

      La Inteligencia Artificial puede utilizar fuentes de datos no tradicionales, como redes sociales o sensores, para captar experiencias de corporalidades excluidas en contextos conflictivos o difíciles de alcanzar con métodos estándar.

    3. Bias exists in current data collection practices, leaving women and girls invisible in the data.

      Los sesgos en la recopilación de datos y la invisibilización de mujeres y niñas puede relacionarse profundamente con corporalidades, traducción e Inteligencia Artificial.

      Corporalidades y recopilación de datos

      La invisibilidad de corporalidades diversas en los métodos tradicionales de recopilación de datos tienden a generalizar los cuerpos de las mujeres y niñas, omitiendo diferencias significativas como raza, etnicidad, identidad de género, condición de discapacidad o edad. Un enfoque feminista desvirtuaría estos datos para representar estas corporalidades y sus experiencias específicas.

      Los sesgos en tecnologías biométricas y sensores en la Inteligencia Artificial analizan datos corporales, como reconocimiento facial o monitoreo de salud, a menudo fallan en captar la diversidad de cuerpos femeninos o marginados, reforzando estereotipos y exclusión.

      Traducción como puente inclusivo

      El lenguaje inclusivo en la recopilación de datos, al traducir encuestas, análisis o resultados, se corre el riesgo de eliminar términos culturalmente específicos como los culturemas que reflejan la diversidad de corporalidades y experiencias. Por ejemplo, conceptos relacionados con género o identidad corporal en un idioma pueden no tener equivalentes exactos en otro, lo que invisibiliza problemáticas clave.

      La interpretación del significado en la traducción de datos requiere una sensibilidad cultural y feminista que respete las diferencias lingüísticas y semánticas de cómo las corporalidades y el género son comprendidos en distintos contextos. Sin esta sensibilidad, la traducción puede reforzar las inequidades en lugar de corregirlas.

      Inteligencia Artificial (IA) y recopilación feminista de datos

      Las oportunidades en la Inteligencia Artificial tiene un enorme potencial para analizar grandes volúmenes de datos de manera desagregada, identificar patrones de exclusión y ampliar el uso de fuentes no tradicionales (como redes sociales, sensores, y datos de dispositivos móviles). Esto podría visibilizar experiencias de mujeres y niñas que antes eran ignoradas.

      Los riesgos de sesgos algorítmicos sucederían si los algoritmos de Inteligencia Artificial son entrenados con datos históricos sesgados, replicarán esas inequidades. Esto incluye subrepresentar corporalidades no normativas o ignorar contextos culturales específicos al interpretar datos traducidos.

      El diseño interseccional sirve para superar estas limitaciones, los algoritmos deben diseñarse con principios feministas que incluyan parámetros explícitos para identificar y corregir sesgos relacionados con género y corporalidades diversas.

      1. Preguntas críticas para la recopilación inclusiva de datos

      Las preguntas pueden adaptarse para incluir corporalidades, traducción e IA:

      •   ¿Quién define qué corporalidades son relevantes y cómo se representan en los datos?
      •   ¿Quién traduce y cómo garantiza que las voces de las mujeres y niñas sean fielmente representadas?
      •   ¿Cómo asegura la IA que los datos desagregados reflejen experiencias interseccionales y no perpetúen exclusión?
      •   ¿Quién decide qué fuentes de datos se utilizan y con qué criterios éticos?
      

      Hacia una Inteligencia Artificial inclusiva

      Una Inteligencia Artificial de recopilación de datos verdaderamente inclusiva debe:

      1.  Diseñar encuestas y procesos de recopilación que reconozcan la diversidad de corporalidades y vivencias.
      2.  Incorporar traducciones que respeten el contexto cultural y lingüístico, permitiendo que los datos capturen las realidades de mujeres y niñas en distintos entornos.
      3.  Utilizar IA para integrar fuentes de datos no tradicionales, asegurando que los modelos sean revisados constantemente para mitigar sesgos algorítmicos.
      4.  Basarse en principios feministas que guíen cada etapa del proceso, desde la definición del problema hasta el uso de los datos.
      
    1. Acknowledgments The authors acknowledge the COBE SST2 data provided by the NOAA/OAR/ESRL (PSL, Boulder, Colorado, USA), obtained from their website at https://psl.noaa.gov/data/gridded/data.cobe2.html and to the public IBTrACs database provided by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Also, A.P-A. acknowledges the support from UVigo PhD grants. J.C.F-A. and R.S acknowledge the support from the Xunta de Galicia (Galician Regional Government). References Aiyyer, A. & Thorncroft, C. 2006. “Climatology of vertical shear over the tropical Atlantic”. Journal of Climate, 19: 2969-2983, ISSN: 0894-8755, DOI: 10.1175/JCLI3685.1. Andrews, D. G.; Holton, J. R. & Leovy, C. B. 1987. Middle Atmosphere Dynamics. 1st ed., vol. 40, United Kingdom: Academic Press, 489p., ISBN: 9780080511672, Available: <https://www.sciencedirect.com/bookseries/international-geophysics/vol/40/suppl/C>, [Consulted: Febraury 10, 2021]. 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      CIT: Possible resources

    1. The union of forces, which must not be confounded with association, as we shall shortly see,

      este conceito também é elaborado em "o que é a propriedade?"

    1. Table 3Biophysical and economic accounts for the ecosystem services air purification, urban cooling, and climate regulation. Examples from studies conducted in Europe and United States.Ecosystem service City Biophysical accounts Economic value estimates Valuation model ReferenceAir purification Barcelona, Spain 305.6 t/y €1,115,908 Avoided costs/UFORE Chaparro and Terradas (2009)Chicago, USA 5575 t/y US$ 9.2 million Avoided costs/C-BAT McPherson et al. (1997)Modesto, USA 154 t/y;3.7 lb/treeUS$1.48 million US$16/tree Willingness to pay McPherson et al. (1999)Sacramento, USA 1457 t/y US$28.7 millionUS$1500/haAvoided costs Scott et al. (1998)Philadelphia, USA 802 t/y US$ 3.9 million/y Avoided costs Nowak et al. (2007)Urban cooling/heatingChicago, USA 0.5 GJ/tree (cooling)2.1 GJ/tree (heating)US$15/treeUS$10/treeUS$50–90 per dwelling unitAvoided costs/C-BAT McPherson et al. (1997)Modesto, USA 110,133 Mbtu/y; 122 kWh/tree US$870,000 US$10/tree Avoided costs McPherson et al. 1999Sacramento, USA 157 GWh (cooling)145 TJ (heating)US$18.5 mill/y US$ 1.3 mill/y Avoided costs Simpson (1988)Climate regulation (t of C/y) Barcelona, Spain Storage: 113,437 tSequestration: 6187 t/y;5422 t/y (net)Not assessed Avoided costs/UFORE Chaparro and Terradas (2009)Modesto, USA 13,900 t336 lb/treeUS$ 460,000 US$ 5/tree Avoided costs McPherson et al. (1999)Philadelphia, USA Storage : 530,000 tSequestration16,100 t /yUS$ 9.8 millionUS$ 297,000Avoided costs/UFORE Nowak et al. (2007)Washington, USA 572 t/y1.0 t/ha/yUS$ 13,156 Avoided costs/UFORE Nowak and Crane (2002)Chicago, USA Storage: 5.6 million t(14–18 t/ha)Not assessed Avoided costs/C-BAT McPherson et al. (1997)PM: particulate matter. UFORE: Urban Forest Effects model; C-BAT: Cost–Benefit Analysis of Trees. When pollutants are not specified, calculations include NO 2, SO2 , PM 10 , O 3 andCO). Note: Figures were not converted to net present values and should be taken as illustration only.239E. Gómez-Baggethun, D.N. Barton / Ecological Economics 86 (2013) 235–245

      I find this table to be really interesting as it assumes value for disservices in these urban areas. I find it fascinating that different areas of the world have to spend more or less money for these certain disservices.

    1. The seven principles of data feminism are as follows:

      El feminismo de datos, tal como se describe, ofrece una oportunidad para interconectar conceptos de corporalidades, traducción e inteligencia artificial, ya que estas tres áreas se entrelazan en las dinámicas de poder, representación y conocimiento. Esto se puede apreciar en tres dimensiones:

      Corporalidades y Feminismo de Datos

      Elevar la emoción y la corporalidad:

      Este principio resalta la importancia de reconocer a las personas como cuerpos vivos y sensibles. En el contexto de la Inteligencia Artificial, esto desafía la tendencia a despersonalizar los datos y tratar a los sujetos como abstracciones numéricas. Por ejemplo, al diseñar sistemas de reconocimiento facial, los cuerpos no normativos (como aquellos racializados o con diversidad funcional) son a menudo mal representados. Incorporar una perspectiva feminista exige cuestionar estas omisiones y visibilizar la experiencia corporal diversa.

      Repensar los binarismos y las jerarquías:

      El binarismo de género frecuentemente excluye corporalidades no conformes, tanto en los datos como en los algoritmos que los procesan. Esto tiene implicaciones tangibles, desde la falta de representación de personas no binarias en formularios digitales hasta los sesgos en modelos predictivos que perpetúan desigualdades. Integrar las corporalidades en la Inteligencia Artificial significa desestabilizar estas jerarquías y crear tecnologías más inclusivas.

      Traducción y Feminismo de Datos

      Adoptar el pluralismo:

      La traducción aquí no solo se refiere a lenguas, sino a la intermediación entre perspectivas diversas, como los saberes indígenas y los sistemas de datos occidentales. Por ejemplo, la traducción de indicadores de género en datos cuantitativos puede borrar o simplificar las experiencias locales si no se contextualiza adecuadamente. Un feminismo de datos traducido con cuidado prioriza estos conocimientos y los integra en el análisis tecnológico.

      Considerar el contexto:

      La traducción de datos a diferentes idiomas y culturas requiere sensibilidad para no neutralizar las relaciones de poder que los generan. Por ejemplo, una Inteligencia Artificial que analiza patrones de violencia de género debe ser consciente de cómo se interpreta este fenómeno en diferentes contextos culturales, lo que implica una traducción crítica de términos y categorías.

      Hacer visible el trabajo:

      La traducción es una labor colectiva que a menudo queda invisibilizada en los procesos de desarrollo tecnológico. Desde los equipos de localización hasta los traductores de interfaces, el feminismo de datos puede destacar estas contribuciones como parte esencial de la ciencia de datos.

      IA y Feminismo de Datos

      Examinar el poder y desafiarlo:

      La Inteligencia Artificial refleja las estructuras de poder subyacentes en los datos que utiliza. Por ejemplo, los algoritmos entrenados con datos sesgados perpetúan desigualdades sistémicas. Un enfoque feminista en la Inteligencia Artificial busca desmantelar estos sistemas cuestionando las fuentes de los datos, las metodologías empleadas y los objetivos finales de la tecnología.

      Repensar binarismos y jerarquías:

      En el diseño de la Inteligencia Artificial, los sistemas categóricos rígidos (hombre/mujer, blanco/no blanco) limitan la representación de la diversidad humana. El feminismo de datos propone un rediseño de los sistemas de clasificación, favoreciendo representaciones fluidas y menos jerárquicas que reconozcan las identidades interseccionales.

      Elevar la emoción y la corporalidad:

      La Inteligencia Artificial suele ignorar las dimensiones emocionales y corporales del conocimiento humano. Por ejemplo, las Inteligencias Artificiales están diseñadas para imitar respuestas humanas, pero carecen de la sensibilidad para responder adecuadamente a experiencias humanas complejas, como el dolor o el trauma. Incorporar un enfoque feminista podría llevar a tecnologías que reflejen estas realidades de manera más ética.

      Adoptar el pluralismo:

      La diversidad en el desarrollo de la Inteligencia Artificial, incluyendo voces marginadas y saberes locales, no solo enriquece la tecnología, sino que la hace más ética y eficaz. El feminismo de datos puede guiar estos procesos, garantizando que la Inteligencia Artificial no sea solo un reflejo de las agendas del Norte Global.

    1. strong critiques of AI from a feminist standpoint

      Las corporalidades y feminismos en la Inteligencia Artificial se podría ver reflejada en la invisibilidad del cuerpo en la tecnología.

      La Inteligencia Artificial, frecuentemente percibida como desprovista de corporalidad aunque goza de ensamblajes ya que son organizaciones de personas las que operan sobre datos que representan cuerpos humanos en la Inteligencia Artificial. Sin embargo, las brechas de datos de género reflejan cómo ciertas corporalidades (como las de mujeres, personas racializadas o no conformes con el género) son ignoradas o mal representadas. Esto afecta directamente la producción de sistemas de IA que perpetúan desigualdades corporales y sociales.

      La materialidad de los datos es la falta de datos sobre cuidados no remunerados o violencia de género que invisibiliza las experiencias corporales. Estos datos “faltantes” no solo son números, son ausencias que impactan cuerpos reales, reproduciendo desigualdades en políticas y decisiones tecnológicas.

      Las estrategias normativas y la performatividad del cambio se centran en las estrategias educativas para la transformación de normas (como entrenamientos en género y diversidad) que pueden incluir perspectivas corporales para abordar las maneras en que las tecnologías moldean las experiencias físicas, desde interfaces hasta el impacto del reconocimiento facial en personas racializadas.

      La traducción como herramienta feminista aplicaría a la traducción de conceptos complejos como “feminismo de datos” o “IA feminista” que requiere una mediación cultural y lingüística que haga accesibles estos temas en contextos diversos. Las herramientas normativas, como las guías educativas sobre Inteligencia Artificial, pueden ser traducidas y adaptadas para comunidades no angloparlantes, fomentando un cambio inclusivo.

      Los sesgos lingüísticos en la Inteligencia Artificial se manifiestan porque los algoritmos de procesamiento de lenguaje natural incorporan sesgos culturales que pueden reforzar estereotipos de género. Por ejemplo, traductores automáticos que perpetúan roles de género (“doctor” vs. “enfermera”) necesitan intervenciones basadas en datos de género de alta calidad para minimizar estas desigualdades.

      La traducción como puente disciplinar e intermediación lingüística. Dado que las estrategias para la IA feminista requieren la colaboración entre tecnólogos, activistas y teóricos, la traducción también puede entenderse como una práctica de mediación entre disciplinas, ayudando a alinear epistemologías divergentes.

      La IA feminista y el potencial transformador en los datos para cuerpos diversos se puede percibir para crear y usar datos sobre experiencias corporales diversas, como el impacto del diseño de ciudades en mujeres, personas en condición de discapacidad, o personas trans, es crucial para una IA feminista que considere a todas las corporalidades.

      La educación para la inclusión abarcaría las normativas que fomenten el uso de herramientas educativas, como guías sobre los riesgos de la Inteligencia Artificial, ya que son vitales para garantizar que las tecnodiversidades no reproduzcan exclusiones históricas.

      El diálogo interdisciplinar de la traducción entre datos (cuantitativos y cualitativos) y las narrativas sobre género puede ser el punto de partida para superar las barreras de autoridad que limitan los cambios en la Inteligencia Artificial. Esto incluye no solo traducir términos técnicos, sino también experiencias humanas.

    2. feminist AI should

      Las tecnologías de Inteligencia Artificial están mediada por las estructuras de poder que moldean qué datos se recopilan, cómo se interpretan y qué usos se les da. Esto es especialmente evidente en las brechas de datos de género, donde las experiencias y necesidades de ciertos cuerpos, particularmente los de mujeres, personas no binarias y otras corporalidades marginalizadas, son omitidas, invisibilizadas o mal representadas.

      Los ecosistemas diversos y el rol de los actores sociales consiste en que la producción de datos es un proceso profundamente social, influido por las decisiones de múltiples agendas del Norte Global. Para abordar las brechas de género en los datos, es esencial reconocer este ecosistema diverso (gobiernos, empresas tecnológicas, organizaciones de la sociedad civil, activistas y comunidades de base).

      Las corporalidades invisibilizadas en los datos pueden emerger a través de esfuerzos colaborativos entre sociedad civil y ministerios gubernamentales. Por ejemplo, iniciativas donde organizaciones feministas trabajan con gobiernos para construir políticas de datos con perspectiva de género.

      Estas colaboraciones no solo reducen las brechas de datos, sino que también desvirtúan estructuras de poder tradicionales al movilizar a las comunidades hacia el cambio.

      Las dinámicas de coerción interna y externa en la transformación tecnológica.

      Para construir una Inteligencia Artificial feminista, es necesario emplear estrategias que combinen herramientas internas (cambios dentro de las instituciones) y externas (presión desde movimientos sociales).

      Las estrategias internas incluyen la integración de equipos interdisciplinarios que combinen conocimientos técnicos y teóricos, como data scientists, activistas y académicas feministas, para diseñar sistemas que reflejen la diversidad de experiencias corporales.

      Las estrategias externas implican la presión de movimientos feministas para exigir transparencia y responsabilidad a las grandes empresas tecnológicas y gobiernos, promoviendo cambios en las políticas y normativas que rigen la tecnología.

      Investigación sobre ejemplos exitosos (“bright spots”): Para avanzar hacia una Inteligencia Artificial más inclusiva, es vital identificar casos donde actuantes feministas hayan logrado cerrar brechas de género o implementar sistemas tecnológicos más equitativos. Por ejemplo, proyectos que han utilizado datos de género para visibilizar el trabajo de cuidado no remunerado o reducir las desigualdades en salud materna pueden servir como modelos para futuras iniciativas.

      Estas experiencias también resaltan el papel de las comunidades locales en traducir las necesidades corporales específicas en soluciones tecnológicas efectivas y contextualizadas.

      la investigación interdisciplinaria y colaborativa podría abrir las brechas en los datos de género y el diseño de una IA feminista con enfoques que integren disciplinas que tradicionalmente no dialogan entre sí.

      La traducción de corporalidades a datos digitales puede ser abordada por equipos que combinen desarrolladores tecnológicos, expertas en teoría de género y organizadoras comunitarias, generando sistemas que reflejen tanto las dinámicas sociales como los contextos técnicos.

      Este enfoque también fomenta sistemas de Inteligencia Artificial que sean culturalmente sensibles y diseñados para promover equidad.

      La construcción de plataformas y prácticas feministas de Inteligencia Artificial requiere plataformas políticas y prácticas informales que incluyan múltiples niveles de acción, desde cambios individuales hasta transformaciones sistémicas.

      A nivel individual, esto incluye sensibilización sobre cómo las tecnologías reproducen desigualdades de género y su impacto en los cuerpos marginalizados.

      A nivel sistémico, implica movilizar políticas que aseguren la representatividad y la inclusión en la gobernanza de la tecnología, así como fomentar prácticas que desmantelen las jerarquías opresivas incrustadas en los sistemas algorítmicos.

      Utilizar herramientas interdisciplinarias, movilizar a diversos actuantes sociales y articular estrategias internas y externas que impulsen el cambio. De este modo, la Inteligencia Artificial feminista no sólo traduce las experiencias humanas a datos, sino que lo hace desde un lugar de justicia social, visibilizando y empoderando a las corporalidades históricamente excluidas.

    1. “Feminist principles can be a handy framework to understand and transform the impact of AI systems. Key principles include reflexivity, participation, intersectionality, and working towards structural change.”

      Las corporalidades, la traducción y la Inteligencia Artificial desde una posibilidad feminista puede articularse en torno a la idea de cómo las tecnologías emergentes interactúan con los cuerpos y las experiencias humanas, particularmente aquellas de grupos marginalizados, y cómo la traducción de esos datos corporales a sistemas digitales puede ser transformada para subvertir estructuras de poder.

      Las tecnodiversidades y en especial la Inteligencia Artificial, tiene el poder de traducir las experiencias humanas en datos cuantificables. No obstante, esta traducción está mediada por estructuras de poder que asignan mayor valor a ciertas corporalidades y vivencias mientras invisibilizan otras.

      La forma en que los datos relacionados con la salud o el trabajo de las mujeres suelen quedar subrepresentados o malinterpretados en los sistemas de Inteligencia Artificial debido a sesgos en las fuentes de datos desde las agendas del Norte Global.

      Estos sesgos son reflejo de desigualdades estructurales arraigadas en el patriarcado, el racismo y el capitalismo.

      Desde una posibilidad feminista, es importante aplicar principios como la reflexividad, la participación y la interseccionalidad al proceso de traducción de corporalidades a sistemas digitales.

      La reflexividad cuestiona cómo las relaciones de poder moldean tanto los datos recolectados como las decisiones tomadas durante el diseño de Inteligencia Artificial. Esto invita a pensar en cómo el diseño técnico puede reconocer y rediseñar las jerarquías sociales que privilegian ciertas experiencias corporales sobre otras.

      La participación asegura que las corporalidades más afectadas por los sistemas de Inteligencia Artificial tengan voz en su diseño y gobernanza. En el ámbito de la salud, esto podría significar incluir a pacientes, trabajadoras comunitarias y activistas en el diseño de sistemas de diagnóstico que reflejen sus experiencias vividas. Esta traducción participativa de las necesidades humanas a sistemas digitales puede mejorar la adopción de tecnodiversidades, y redistribuir el poder hacia las comunidades.

      La interseccionalidad destaca cómo las experiencias corporales son multidimensionales, determinadas por factores como género, raza, clase y condición de discapacidad.

      Si bien las tecnologías de Inteligencia Artificial tienden a homogeneizar y simplificar estas diferencias, la interseccionalidad exige diseñar sistemas que reconozcan y respeten estas complejidades. A modo de ejemplo, los sistemas que clasifiquen imágenes corporales deben evitar perpetuar estándares corporales eurocéntricos o normas de género binarias, asegurando que los datos reflejen la diversidad de experiencias humanas.

      Cuando la Inteligencia Artificial se apropia desde principios feministas, se convierte en una herramienta para cuestionar y reconfigurar la traducción de cuerpos humanos a sistemas algorítmicos. Esto implica resistir los usos autoritarios de la Inteligencia Artificial como la vigilancia y la exclusión y crear sistemas alternativos que desafíen la desigualdad y promuevan una práctica tecnológica inclusiva y transformadora. Por ejemplo, proyectos que buscan erradicar el discurso de odio en línea pueden considerarse feministas en tanto protegen a grupos históricamente marginados, aunque no aborden explícitamente la violencia de género.

      Incorporar principios feministas en la Inteligencia Artificial significa diseñar tecnodiversidades que no solo traduzcan datos corporales con precisión, sino que también reconozcan y valoren las relaciones sociales que los producen. A través de sistemas inclusivos, participativos y reflexivos, se puede trabajar hacia una tecnología que desafíe las estructuras de dominación, promoviendo corporalidades libres, dignas y diversas.

    1. AI as a Software

      Las corporalidades, la traducción y la inteligencia artificial son creados para interpretar y operar, amplifican y perpetúan los sesgos sociales que definen tanto la representación como la interacción de los cuerpos en el ámbito tecnológico. Se entretejen las nociones de traducción como la adaptación o interpretación de las corporalidades humanas al lenguaje de los datos, y la ética de la Inteligencia Artificial, en la que se abordan los sesgos en la sociedad.

      La traducción con Inteligencia Artificial “traduce” las corporalidades humanas a datos estructurados mediante procesos de entrenamiento que dependen de patrones en los datasets. Sin embargo, esta traducción es imperfecta y limitada.

      Las corporalidades humanas, con sus matices de diversidad cultural, étnica, de género y funcionalidad, son codificadas en un espacio de datos reducido, lo que deja fuera muchas experiencias humanas.

      La Inteligencia Artificial no sólo traduce, sino que también amplifica los sesgos presentes en los datos. Un sistema entrenado con imágenes que asocian género con profesiones perpetuará estos estereotipos, traduciéndolos como “verdades” tecnológicas.

      La Inteligencia Artificial, al comportarse como un software “inteligente”, plantea desafíos únicos que afectan cómo las corporalidades son representadas, a diferencia de un software tradicional, los resultados de la Inteligencia Artificial cambian con el tiempo y el contexto, lo que dificulta crear métricas fijas para medir su sesgo. Esto afecta directamente cómo los cuerpos son clasificados o reconocidos.

      En lugar de reconocer la fluidez de las identidades humanas, los sistemas de Inteligencia Artificial suelen fijar a las corporalidades en etiquetas binarias (“hombre” o “mujer”), dejando fuera identidades LGBTQ+.

      La comprensión y mitigación de sesgos en la Inteligencia Artificial requiere un enfoque interdisciplinario que reconozca las complejidades sociales y culturales de las corporalidades.

      Las ciencias sociales pueden aportar conceptos de sesgo y equidad que guíen la creación de métricas en la Inteligencia Artificial. Redefinir cómo los sistemas interpretan y categorizan las corporalidades más allá de los parámetros normativos.

      La introducción de herramientas como REVISE y datasets como el Pilot Parliament Benchmark marcan un paso hacia la evaluación de sesgos, pero aún no abordan la diversidad completa de las corporalidades.

      La Inteligencia Artificial puede entenderse como una traducción cultural que convierte dinámicas humanas en procesos computacionales, la traducción de las corporalidades al ámbito de la Inteligencia Artificial no es neutral, ya que refleja los valores y prejuicios de quienes crean los sistemas y los datasets. Este proceso requiere una revisión ética que considere cómo las decisiones de diseño afectan a las poblaciones marginalizadas.

      Resolver estos desafíos exige la colaboración entre disciplinas (ciencias sociales, legales, matemáticas, etc.) y geografías como las cartografías, reconociendo que las corporalidades humanas son interpretadas de maneras distintas según el contexto cultural.

      La interacción entre la Inteligencia Artificial y las corporalidades tiene consecuencias profundas que van más allá de los sesgos técnicos, si los sesgos en la Inteligencia Artificial no se mitigan, las tecnodiversidades podrían institucionalizar discriminaciones sociales, afectando cómo ciertos cuerpos son vistos, valorados o incluso controlados.

      En un mundo donde la Inteligencia Artificial tiene un impacto cada vez mayor, es esencial que todos los sectores de la sociedad trabajen juntos para garantizar que las tecnologías no perpetúen ni amplifiquen las desigualdades existentes.

    2. we shall see how AI algorithms, when trained on these datasets, pick up these biases and amplify them, leading to biased AI systems.

      La Inteligencia Artificial y las corporalidades no solo tiene implicaciones técnicas, sino que también expone dinámicas culturales y sociales que determinan cómo los cuerpos son interpretados y clasificados.

      El predominio de rostros blancos en datasets como Rostros Etiquetados en la Naturaleza (LFW por su sigla en inglés) crea modelos que reconocen con precisión a personas blancas, pero fallan al identificar a personas de otras razas. Esto marginaliza a cuerpos no blancos, reduciendo su visibilidad tecnológica y reproduciendo jerarquías raciales.

      La tendencia de los modelos a asociar características específicas con ciertos grupos (como mujeres en la cocina u hombres en el garaje) refleja cómo las corporalidades son codificadas de manera sesgada en los datos y amplificadas por la Inteligencia Artificial.

      El proceso de entrenamiento de la Inteligencia Artificial puede considerarse una forma de traducción algorítmica, donde las corporalidades son reducidas a patrones y etiquetas.

      Los modelos tienden a generalizar patrones, lo que significa que las corporalidades que no se ajustan a los estándares dominantes (por ejemplo, caras racializadas o cuerpos fuera de las normas hegemónicas) son malinterpretadas o invisibilizadas.

      Durante el entrenamiento, los modelos reciben “recompensas” por predecir correctamente según el dataset. Si el dataset es sesgado, las predicciones correctas refuerzan esas generalizaciones erróneas, consolidando una visión limitada y parcial de las corporalidades.

      El uso de métricas como la precisión para evaluar modelos sesgados resalta una desconexión entre la eficiencia técnica y la justicia social, un modelo que alcanza un 85% de precisión al reconocer rostros blancos en un dataset dominado por estas imágenes no es verdaderamente eficiente; simplemente está optimizado para perpetuar el sesgo del dataset.

      La creación de datasets verdaderamente diversos y la reformulación de cómo los modelos interactúan con las corporalidades son pasos esenciales para evitar la amplificación de sesgos.

      Un dataset diverso no solo debe incluir representaciones equilibradas de diferentes razas y géneros, sino también considerar otras dimensiones de la identidad, como la edad, si tiene alguna condición de discapacidad y los culturemas.

      La Inteligencia Artificial debe integrar mecanismos que detecten y mitiguen sesgos inherentes, evitando la reproducción de inequidades.

      Incorporar perspectivas interseccionales permite a la Inteligencia Artificial considerar cómo múltiples formas de identidad se cruzan y afectan la representación de las corporalidades.

    3. Deep learning models require huge amounts of data for training

      Las corporalidades, la traducción y la Inteligencia Artificial se encuentra en el análisis de cómo los datos utilizados para entrenar modelos de aprendizaje profundo reproducen y amplifican las construcciones sociales y culturales relacionadas con los cuerpos humanos.

      Los datasets visuales como ImageNet o OpenImages, usados para entrenar modelos de visión por computadora, refuerzan nociones específicas de las corporalidades.

      La mayoría de las imágenes están sesgadas hacia cuerpos blancos, lo que genera problemas de reconocimiento en cuerpos racializados. Los sistemas de reconocimiento facial identifican incorrectamente rostros negros cinco veces más que blancos, lo que evidencia una invisibilización sistémica de las corporalidades no occidentales.

      Las imágenes etiquetadas tienden a asociar ciertos objetos o contextos con corporalidades específicas. Los cosméticos o las flores están sobrerrepresentados con mujeres, mientras que herramientas e instrumentos suelen estar vinculados con hombres. Esto reproduce constructos culturales que refuerzan la pasividad femenina y la agencia masculina.

      La traducción, como intermediación cultural, es fundamental en la creación de datasets. Sin embargo, este proceso está mediado por quienes etiquetan los datos.

      La mayoría de los etiquetadores (Amazon Mechanical Turk) provienen de países occidentales, lo que lleva a una interpretación culturalmente limitada de las imágenes. Esto impacta cómo se codifican corporalidades de otras culturas, generando traducciones parciales o erróneas.

      La falta de diversidad en los datasets traduce las experiencias corporales en un marco único, al homogeneizar las diferencias culturales, raciales y de género. Esto no solo afecta la precisión técnica de la traducción, sino que también tiene consecuencias éticas y sociales.

      La Inteligencia Artificial traduce las corporalidades en patrones que pueden perpetuar desigualdades como en el caso de las imágenes etiquetadas, las mujeres son frecuentemente observadoras pasivas, mientras que los hombres interactúan con objetos o son asociados con roles de liderazgo. Esto reproduce construcciones culturales que vinculan el poder con la masculinidad.

      Los intentos de capturar la diversidad en datasets como Pilot Parliament Benchmark o Fair Face son limitados porque intentan traducir muchas experiencias corporales a un marco normativo preexistente.

      Incluir comunidades subrepresentadas en el diseño, etiquetado y curación de los datos.

      Adoptar herramientas para detectar y corregir sesgos en las etiquetas, asegurando que las corporalidades no sean traducidas desde marcos reductivos.

      Incorporar múltiples dimensiones de identidad (género, raza, clase, etc.) para evitar simplificaciones excesivas.

      La relación entre las corporalidades, la IA y la traducción no solo implica reconocer los sesgos inherentes a los datos, sino también repensar cómo las tecnologías representan y traducen las experiencias humanas.

    4. The Origin of Bias: Our Society

      Las Redes Neuronales Artificiales (ANNs por su sigla en inglés) y su entrenamiento en datos provenientes de internet refleja cómo las corporalidades, la traducción y la inteligencia artificial se entrelazan. Esta intersección permite explorar cómo los sesgos sociales presentes en la sociedad son perpetuados y amplificados en las tecnodiversidades.

      Las corporalidades, entendidas como la representación de cuerpos y sus atributos asociados (género, raza, clase, etc.), tienen distorsiones significativas cuando se integran en la Inteligencia Artificial entrenados en datos sesgados.

      Las búsquedas de imágenes para “CEO” o “soldado” versus “enfermera” o “maestra” refuerzan narrativas limitadas sobre quiénes ocupan determinados roles en la sociedad.

      Las Redes Neuronales Artificiales (ANNs por su sigla en inglés) no sólo reproducen, sino que expanden la invisibilidad o la hipervisibilidad de ciertos cuerpos, como mujeres reducidas a estereotipos de sexualidad y familia, o personas racializadas asociadas a profesiones de bajo estatus. Esto crea un “ecosistema algorítmico” que define qué cuerpos son considerados valiosos o normativos en función de los datos disponibles.

      La traducción, bien sea literal, técnica, especializada o metafórica, juega un papel clave en cómo la Inteligencia Artificial procesan el lenguaje y las imágenes.

      La prevalencia de términos como “bello” o “romántico” para mujeres y “ofensivo” o “diplomático” para hombres en análisis basados en Wikipedia ilustra cómo las construcciones culturales de género se filtran en sistemas de Procesamiento del Lenguaje Natural (NLP por su sigla en inglés).

      Tecnodiversidades de reconocimiento de imágenes etiquetan a hombres como “hombres de negocios” y a mujeres con términos relacionados con características físicas (“sonrisa”, “peinado”), evidenciando un filtro cultural que traduce cuerpos femeninos en bases de datos terminológicas relacionadas con la apariencia y cuerpos masculinos en en bases de datos terminológicas relacionadas con el poder.

      Las Inteligencias Artificiales al ser entrenadas con datos masivos provenientes de fuentes como Reddit, Wikipedia y Google, inevitablemente reflejan los prejuicios sociales de origen.

      Los textos generados por GPT-2, los patrones de lenguaje recogidos de Reddit, como la asociación de mujeres con la prostitución y hombres con posiciones de poder, refuerzan un ciclo de perpetuación de sesgos, donde los estereotipos sociales se convierten en reglas operativas dentro de los sistemas.

      Etiquetado de imágenes, los sesgos de género y raza en los conjuntos de datos visuales llevan a etiquetados que marginan a ciertas identidades y privilegian otras, al reproducir jerarquías sociales en los sistemas de IA.

      La masificación de estos sesgos tiene implicaciones críticas para las corporalidades. Si el sesgo en los datos ya marginaliza ciertas identidades, la integración de estos sesgos en sistemas que toman decisiones, como asistentes virtuales, sistemas de reconocimiento facial y plataformas de contratación, amplifica estas exclusiones.

      Las desigualdades algorítmicas por la forma en que la Inteligencia Artificial aprende, refuerza no solo estereotipos individuales, sino sistemas de poder más amplios, donde ciertos cuerpos (blancos, masculinos, etc.) tienen mayores probabilidades de ser asociados con profesionalismo, éxito y capacidad de liderazgo.

      Para interrumpir estos ciclos de sesgo y redefinir el rol de las corporalidades en la Inteligencia Artificial, es crucial adoptar un enfoque transformador.

      Los conjuntos de datos deben ser diseñados deliberadamente para incluir la diversidad de cuerpos, culturas y experiencias humanas, al evitar la reproducción de sesgos sistémicos.

      Incorporar Inteligencia Artificial feminista y crítica que analice cómo las categorías sociales interactúan en la creación de desigualdades.

      Evaluar los tecnodiversidades en todas las etapas, desde la selección de datos hasta su despliegue, para identificar y corregir sesgos antes de que se amplifiquen.

      Reconocer que los datos y la tecnología no son neutrales, sino productos sociales, y promover un diseño ético que valore la equidad y la justicia.

      La Inteligencia Artificial tiene el potencial de ser una herramienta emancipadora si se diseñan sistemas que respeten y celebren la diversidad de las corporalidades humanas. Al abordar los sesgos en los datos y los algoritmos, se podrían construir tecnologías que no solo reflejen el mundo tal como es, sino que muestren y materialicen un futuro más justo, inclusivo y equitativo.

    5. Why is AI biased?

      Las corporalidades, traducción e Inteligencia Artificial sus sesgos y su propagación en las tecnodiversidades revela cómo estos procesos son inseparables de las estructuras sociales que les dan origen.

      Las representaciones corporales, la intermediación lingüística y los algoritmos interactúan para reproducir o desafiar desigualdades.

      La Inteligencia Artificial, como los redes neuronales profundas (DNNs por su sigla en inglés), reflejan las estructuras sociales porque su entrenamiento depende de datos generados en contextos históricamente sesgados.

      Los datos utilizados para entrenar sistemas de visión computacional reproducen la representación desigual de las corporalidades. Esto ocurre cuando términos como “enfermera” producen mayoritariamente imágenes de mujeres, mientras que “CEO” genera imágenes de hombres. Estas representaciones no son neutrales; perpetúan narrativas que asignan roles específicos a cuerpos según género, raza o clase.

      Grupos marginalizados (personas trans, no binarias o en condición de discapacidad) suelen quedar fuera de los conjuntos de datos, lo que los hace prácticamente inexistentes en las tecnodiversidades. Esto crea una brecha de representación y un ciclo de exclusión en un contexto digital.

      El vínculo entre traducción e Inteligencia Artificial pone en evidencia cómo las tecnodiversidades lingüísticas integran y amplifican sesgos de género, raza y clase.

      Cuando se traducen textos de idiomas sin marcadores de género como el turco al inglés, los algoritmos asignan géneros basados en sesgos estadísticos. Por ejemplo, “él es ingeniero” frente a “ella es enfermera”. Este proceso refuerza roles sociales tradicionales y limita las posibilidades de imaginar corporalidades fuera de esos moldes.

      Las traducciones tienden a priorizar lenguajes dominantes, al relegar las lenguas indígenas y locales, lo que invisibiliza culturas y corporalidades. Esto perpetúa un sistema global jerárquico donde ciertos cuerpos y lenguajes son más “validados” que otros.

      La metáfora del “niño recién nacido” aplicado a una red neuronal resalta cómo los sesgos en los datos impactan el comportamiento de la Inteligencia Artificial.

      Las Inteligencias Artificiales que reconocen rostros, suelen tener tasas de error más altas con personas racializadas debido a conjuntos de datos predominantemente blancos. Esto refuerza una noción algorítmica de corporalidades normativas, donde los cuerpos fuera de ese estándar son tratados como “otros”.

      Cada etapa del desarrollo de la Inteligencia Artificial, desde la recopilación de datos hasta el despliegue, permite la acumulación de prejuicios, reproduciendo estructuras de poder. Esta acumulación se traduce en decisiones algorítmicas que afectan directamente la vida de las personas, desde la contratación laboral hasta la vigilancia policial.

      Es necesario recopilar y usar datos que reflejen la diversidad humana en todas sus dimensiones (género, raza, orientación sexual, capacidad, etc.), al reconocer y visibilizar las corporalidades marginadas.

      Incorporar la Inteligencia Artificial feminista y crítica desde la selección de datos hasta la validación de modelos que sirvan en el Sur Global.

      Crear mecanismos transparentes para auditar los sistemas de Inteligencia Artificial, al identificar y corregir sesgos antes de que estos se amplifiquen en el mundo real.

      Los sesgos no son inevitables, pero corregirlos requiere un cambio radical en cómo diseñamos y pensamos estas tecnodiversidades. Reconocer el impacto en los cuerpos reales y su capacidad para amplificar desigualdades es el primer paso hacia la transformación. Al situar las corporalidades en el centro del diseño, podemos construir sistemas que no solo reflejen, sino que desafíen las estructuras opresivas, avanzando hacia un futuro más equitativo y justo.

    1. Google Translate

      Frente a este tema, Olson (2018) citado en Kraft-Buchman (2021) afirmaron que "cuando Google Translate traducía artículos de noticias escritos en español al inglés, las frases que se referían a mujeres profesionales, como las profesoras, a menudo se convertían en “él dijo” o “él escribió”. En el idioma turco, donde no hay “él” ni “ella”, Google Translate creó combinaciones de género donde el idioma turco no las tiene, y los resultados son sorprendentemente impactantes: “ella es cocinera”, “él es ingeniero”, “él es médico”, “ella es enfermera”, “él es muy trabajador”, “ella es perezosa”" (párr. 20).

      Olson, Parmy. ‘The Algorithm That Helped Google Translate Become Sexist’. Forbes, sec. Tech. Ingresó el 16 marzo de 2021. https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/02/15/the-algorithm-that-helped-google-translate-become-sexist/.

      Kraft-Buchman, C. (2021). Chapter 1. We shape our tools, and thereafter our tools shape us. From bias to feminist Ai. A+ Alliance. Tomado de https://feministai.pubpub.org/pub/we-shape-our-tools/release/3?readingCollection=c218d365

    2. women and girls can and do serve as a proxy

      Las mujeres y las niñas funcionan como símbolos o proxies de grupos históricamente invisibilizados y marginados por los sistemas sociales, lo que tiene una relación directa con el concepto de corporalidades.

      Las corporalidades hacen referencia a las maneras en que son construidos, percibidos y tratados socialmente. Este enfoque explica sobre cómo los cuerpos, particularmente aquellos que son racializados, feminizados o clasificados por categorías de género, clase y otras identidades interseccionales, experimentan las desigualdades estructurales de manera material y simbólica.

      La Inteligencia Artificial feminista, se entrelaza con la interseccionalidad para abordar sistemas de opresión interdependientes. Implica directamente las corporalidades porque estas categorías de opresión no existen en abstracto, sino que están encarnadas: los cuerpos de mujeres, personas racializadas o de clases marginadas son el terreno donde se manifiestan estas discriminaciones.

      Es en estos cuerpos donde se cruza el peso de los sistemas de exclusión, como el patriarcado, el racismo o el clasismo.

      El acceso desigual a la tecnología, los sesgos en los sistemas de reconocimiento facial o los algoritmos que reproducen estereotipos son evidencias de cómo las corporalidades son mediadas y discriminadas a través de estas categorías sociales.

      Al plantear que el feminismo y la interseccionalidad son inseparables, se reafirma la necesidad de comprender que las discriminaciones no son simplemente abstractas, sino vividas, percibidas y sufridas por cuerpos específicos.

      En este sentido, cualquier esfuerzo hacia una Inteligencia Artificial feminista no solo debería desafiar los sistemas de discriminación, sino también ser profundamente consciente de cómo sus prácticas afectan las corporalidades concretas, considerando sus múltiples capas de significado e intersección.

    3. Machine learning

      Los cuerpos de mujeres, niñas y otros grupos marginalizados son borrados o distorsionados dentro de los sistemas de aprendizaje automático (machine learning).

      Estos sistemas reproducen y amplifican desigualdades al hacer explícita, a través del código, la invisibilidad y los sesgos presentes en los datos de origen.

      La corporalidad es fundamental porque los sesgos en los datos no solo afectan a las identidades, sino que tienen consecuencias concretas en las vidas corporales y materiales de las personas, tales como:

      La ausencia de datos sobre cuerpos femeninos en estudios médicos y algoritmos puede llevar a diagnósticos imprecisos o tratamientos menos efectivos.

      Los sesgos en sistemas de vigilancia o justicia criminal pueden reforzar estereotipos raciales y de género, poniendo en mayor riesgo a los cuerpos ya vulnerabilizados.

      Las decisiones algorítmicas que excluyen o marginan refuerzan la idea de que ciertos cuerpos son menos importantes o incluso inexistentes, al perpetuar dinámicas excluyentes.

      Cuando estas dinámicas se codifican en sistemas de inteligencia artificial, los estereotipos y normas patriarcales, raciales y de clase que ya afectan a los cuerpos en el mundo analógico se transforman en reglas explícitas que refuerzan estas jerarquías.

      La corporalidad podría ser el terreno donde estas desigualdades se viven de manera tangible: desde quién es vigilado y criminalizado hasta quién es ignorado en los espacios laborales o en las decisiones de políticas públicas.

      La “Patriarquía 2.0” radica en su capacidad de solidificar desigualdades de manera más eficiente y difícil de desmantelar.

      Las relaciones entre género, raza y clase ya no serían solo normas sociales implícitas, sino códigos que regulan y automatizan exclusiones, al afectar directamente cómo los cuerpos se posicionan y sobreviven en el mundo.

      Sería importante repensar la creación de datos, asegurando que incluyan las experiencias y necesidades de cuerpos históricamente marginados para evitar que el futuro tecnológico perpetúe desigualdades del pasado.

    4. when Google Translate converted news articles written in Spanish into English

      Las posibilidades críticas de las corporalidades y la traducción en tiempos de Inteligencia Artificial devela cómo estas tecnologías perpetúan y amplifican dinámicas de poder, desigualdades estructurales y estereotipos históricos.

      La IA no opera en un vacío, sino que reproduce los sesgos en las agendas que diseñan y entrenan en el Norte Global.

      Las corporalidades juegan un papel crucial, pues los sistemas algorítmicos afectan directamente a cómo las personas son representadas, entendidas y tratadas en los entornos digitales.

      Cuando Google Translate introduce sesgos de género en idiomas sin pronombres específicos, como el turco, o asignan estereotipos de género (“ella es cocinera”, “él es ingeniero”), están reconfigurando las representaciones de las corporalidades en una forma que refuerza estructuras de opresión.

      Esto refleja cómo las tecnologías lingüísticas no son neutrales, sino que privilegian corporalidades asociadas al poder (masculino, blanco, occidental) y desvalorizan otras.

      La elección de voces femeninas por defecto en Alexa, Siri y Google Home, junto con su incapacidad superior para reconocer voces femeninas, subraya cómo las tecnologías perpetúan una visión servicial y subordinada de las corporalidades femeninas.

      Esto refuerza estereotipos que asocian a las mujeres con roles de cuidado y servicio, mientras priorizan y optimizan las experiencias de los hombres en la interacción con estas máquinas.

      Ejemplos como el uso de autocompletados de Google para reforzar estereotipos sexistas (“las mujeres no deberían tener derechos”) son formas de violencia simbólica que afectan las corporalidades al crear entornos digitales hostiles para ciertos grupos.

      Estas manifestaciones tecnológicas no solo reflejan la discriminación existente, sino que la normalizan y amplifican, impactando cómo las corporalidades son percibidas en lo social.

      Los modelos de OpenAI, muestran cómo las desigualdades históricas y los estereotipos se entrelazan en las estructuras de datos, reproduciendo narrativas que deshumanizan o limitan las posibilidades de ciertos cuerpos. En este sentido, el texto generado por modelos como GPT-2 no solo refleja sesgos, sino que los materializa al influir en cómo se entienden y representan las corporalidades en el ámbito público.

      Al desviar la representación de ciertas identidades hacia patrones dominantes, las tecnologías lingüísticas marginan corporalidades que no se ajustan al modelo hegemónico. En lugar de ser herramientas de inclusión, estas tecnologías refuerzan las jerarquías.

      Los sesgos de género en la traducción o generación de texto no afectan a las mujeres de manera uniforme; mujeres racializadas, personas no binarias y otros cuerpos vulnerabilizados enfrentan formas más profundas de exclusión en estas tecnologías.

      Las tecnologías lingüísticas deberían ser entrenadas con datos que reflejen la diversidad de las experiencias humanas y representen positivamente todas las corporalidades.

      Es crucial que las agendas del Norte Global sean responsables al auditar sus modelos para identificar y corregir sesgos que afectan corporalidades específicas.

      Incorporar voces diversas en el diseño y desarrollo de estas herramientas, especialmente de grupos históricamente excluidos, para garantizar que las tecnologías no perpetúen opresiones.

    5. Selection bias and stereotypes

      Los algoritmos, lejos de ser neutrales, reproducen y amplifican las dinámicas históricas de exclusión y estereotipación que afectan a cuerpos específicos, en particular aquellos asociados con el género, la raza y la edad.

      La segmentación de anuncios según patrones algorítmicos perpetúa la exclusión de ciertas corporalidades en industrias específicas. Por ejemplo, los anuncios de trabajos en la industria maderera dirigidos predominantemente a hombres blancos refuerzan una asociación histórica de estos cuerpos con el trabajo físico y bien remunerado, mientras que las mujeres son redirigidas hacia roles tradicionalmente feminizados y de menor estatus, como cajeras.

      Esto no solo limita las opciones laborales, sino que también reproduce narrativas corporales sobre quién “pertenece” en ciertos espacios laborales.

      Los algoritmos no solo reflejan los sesgos históricos, sino que los incorporan como patrones normativos. Por ejemplo, el hecho de que más hombres hayan estado históricamente en industrias como la maderera lleva a que el algoritmo excluya automáticamente a las mujeres de esas oportunidades, asociando sus corporalidades con intereses y capacidades predeterminadas. Esto cristaliza estereotipos de género y perpetúa las barreras sociales que restringen la movilidad de ciertos cuerpos en sectores laborales.

      Aunque Facebook eliminó la capacidad de segmentar explícitamente por género, raza o edad, el algoritmo utiliza otras características como proxies de estas categorías.

      Esto significa que las corporalidades racializadas, feminizadas o envejecidas siguen siendo excluidas de manera indirecta, manteniéndolas invisibles en oportunidades laborales de alto estatus y mejores ingresos.

      Las prácticas algorítmicas que refuerzan estereotipos no son solo técnicas; tienen un impacto directo en las corporalidades que ya enfrentan discriminación sistémica. Negarles acceso a ciertos anuncios laborales no solo limita sus opciones económicas, sino que también reafirma su exclusión de espacios de poder, estabilidad financiera y autonomía.

      Los cuerpos afectados por estas prácticas como mujeres, personas racializadas, o personas mayores, son el espacio donde estas exclusiones toman forma y donde deben combatirse.

      La eliminación de la segmentación explícita es un paso, pero la persistencia del sesgo en los resultados muestra que las soluciones técnicas son insuficientes si no se abordan las raíces estructurales de la discriminación.

    6. Inherent bias in hiring

      El algoritmo se autoenseñó a penalizar cualquier currículum que incluyera la palabra “mujeres”, como “capitana del club de ajedrez femenino” en el texto, y degradó los currículums de mujeres que asistieron a dos “universidades para mujeres”.

      Esto se debe a que los datos de entrenamiento que contienen sesgo humano o discriminación histórica crean un bucle de profecía autocumplida donde el aprendizaje automático absorbe el sesgo humano y lo replica, lo incorpora a decisiones futuras y convierte el sesgo implícito en una realidad explícita.

    7. Amazon

      Los sistemas algorítmicos, al ser entrenados con datos que reflejan desigualdades históricas y sesgos humanos, reproducen dinámicas opresivas y las proyectan en relación con las corporalidades.

      Los cuerpos de las mujeres, específicamente aquellos identificados por marcadores de género como “women’s chess club” o la asistencia a “women’s colleges”, fueron desvalorizados en el proceso algorítmico.

      Esto demuestra cómo los algoritmos no operan en un vacío abstracto, sino que tienen efectos tangibles sobre cuerpos concretos, excluyendo a mujeres de procesos laborales que moldean sus trayectorias de vida.

      La decisión del algoritmo de penalizar referencias asociadas al género femenino refuerza la idea de que los cuerpos masculinos (y sus experiencias) son el estándar de valor y éxito, mientras que los cuerpos femeninos son vistos como una desviación de la norma.

      Esta jerarquización de corporalidades, basada en datos históricos sesgados, solidifica desigualdades estructurales en espacios laborales.

      Al absorber y amplificar los sesgos históricos, el algoritmo no solo afectó a las corporalidades que estaban representadas en los datos, sino que también condicionó qué tipos de cuerpos e identidades serían visibles, aceptables y valiosas en el futuro.

      Este mecanismo tiene implicaciones profundas, pues define quién puede ocupar ciertos espacios de poder y autoridad.

      Aunque el sesgo identificado fue de género, este caso subraya cómo las tecnologías algorítmicas pueden replicar múltiples formas de discriminación (de raza, clase, género, orientación sexual, discapacidad, etc.), que afectan a los cuerpos.

      Las corporalidades no son homogéneas, y un sistema que discrimina en función de un aspecto frecuentemente reproduce desigualdades en otras dimensiones.

      El hecho de que Amazon no pudiera corregir el sesgo a pesar de múltiples intentos indica cómo la opresión de ciertas corporalidades no es un accidente técnico, sino un reflejo de sistemas históricos de exclusión profundamente enraizados.

      Los cuerpos que se quedaron fuera del proceso laboral son una evidencia de cómo la tecnología puede perpetuar desigualdades en lugar de eliminarlas.

    8. particular danger to women and girls of the Global South

      La corporalidad (experiencia vivida a través del cuerpo), tiene una relación directa con la problemática.

      Las mujeres y niñas del Sur Global, históricamente marginalizadas y excluidas de las esferas de poder y toma de decisiones, viven estas dinámicas opresivas de manera tangible en sus cuerpos.

      Estas exclusiones limitan su acceso a la tecnología y a la creación de soluciones para los problemas sociales, y refuerzan desigualdades que se manifiestan físicamente en la precarización de sus vidas, en la explotación laboral y en la violencia de género.

      Se acentúa al considerar las posibilidades críticas y éticas de la Inteligencia Artificial y Toma de Decisiones Algorítmica (ADM), que replican y amplifican patrones discriminatorios preexistentes.

      Los algoritmos aprenden de datos históricos que reflejan desigualdades sociales, muchas de las cuales están profundamente entrelazadas con la corporalidad. Por ejemplo, sistemas de reconocimiento facial que tienen tasas de error más altas para personas racializadas o algoritmos de contratación que perpetúan sesgos de género impactan directamente en cómo los cuerpos de las mujeres y niñas del Sur Global son valorados y tratados en diferentes contextos.

      La corporalidad es un punto de partida para entender cómo estas exclusiones se viven, y es una herramienta clave para imaginar resistencias y alternativas.

      A través de sus cuerpos, sus experiencias y sus luchas, las mujeres y niñas pueden desafiar estas estructuras opresivas y reclamar su lugar en la construcción de un futuro tecnológico más equitativo y justo.

    1. When teachers are teaching conce pt s, they create tools th at w ill all ow studentsto s how th eir und erst andin g. Th ey may want to find o ut whether stude nt s lackbackground knowledge needed for bet ter understanding.

      This is an important role of assessments that needs to be considered when assessing students in different forms.

    Annotators

    1. Below is a concise overview of the key concepts in the article “How Real-Time Materialized Views Work with ksqlDB, Animated.” It explains:

      1. What Real-Time Materialized Views Are
      2. A real-time materialized view is a continuously updated “pre-aggregated” or “read-optimized” result of incoming streaming data.
      3. Instead of recalculating the entire view on demand (as in many traditional databases), stream processing incrementally updates the view with each new event (the “delta”).

      4. How ksqlDB Maintains These Views

      5. Continuous Queries: When you write a SQL-like query in ksqlDB (e.g., CREATE TABLE ... SELECT ... FROM readings GROUP BY ... EMIT CHANGES;), ksqlDB creates a persistent query that runs forever, reading new events from Kafka topics and updating the view.
      6. Incremental Updates + Changelog: As ksqlDB updates the materialized view in its local state store (RocksDB), it also emits a new record to a changelog topic in Kafka that captures the change.

        • This changelog topic is essentially the “audit log” of every update.
        • The local RocksDB store is fast but treated as transient; changelog topics in Kafka provide durability and fault tolerance.
      7. Push vs. Pull Queries

      8. Pull Queries ask for the current state of the materialized view at the moment you run the query (e.g., SELECT * FROM avg_readings WHERE sensor=...;).
      9. Push Queries subscribe to changes as they happen (e.g., SELECT * FROM avg_readings EMIT CHANGES;). You get a continuous stream of updates whenever a new change arrives.

      10. RocksDB as the Local Store

      11. Each partition of the input stream(s) to a ksqlDB query is associated with its own local RocksDB instance.
      12. RocksDB stores the current state needed for aggregations, joins, etc.
      13. Because data is partitioned, all rows with the same key end up on the same partition (and thus the same RocksDB instance).

      14. Automatic Repartitioning

      15. If your grouping key is not the same as the original Kafka key, ksqlDB must shuffle data so that rows with the same group key end up on the same partition.
      16. This shuffle is automatically handled by creating a *-repartition topic.
      17. If your original keys are already aligned with the grouping columns, ksqlDB skips this shuffle to save I/O.

      18. Fault Tolerance via Changelogs

      19. If a ksqlDB node dies, a new node can rebuild the materialized view by replaying the changelog from Kafka.
      20. Changelog topics use log compaction, which removes older updates to each key, keeping only the latest.
      21. This keeps replay time manageable (rather than applying every single historical update).

      22. Latest-by-Offset Aggregations

      23. Besides sum, min, max, or average, ksqlDB also supports “latest by offset” to store just the most recent value for each key, effectively creating a “recency cache.”
      24. Example:<br /> sql CREATE TABLE latest_readings AS SELECT sensor, LATEST_BY_OFFSET(area) AS area, LATEST_BY_OFFSET(reading) AS last FROM readings GROUP BY sensor EMIT CHANGES;
        • This ensures the table always reflects the last known value for each key (based on Kafka offset).

      Why This Matters

      • Fast Queries: Because the materialized view is already “pre-aggregated,” queries against it are extremely fast—no need to scan or recalculate everything from scratch.
      • Real-Time Updates: The view is updated continuously as new data arrives, so you always have a near-real-time representation of what is happening.
      • Scalable & Fault-Tolerant: Using Kafka’s partitions and log compaction for changelogs, ksqlDB scales horizontally (across multiple nodes) and recovers state quickly when nodes fail.

      Further Resources

      • Try It Out
      • The ksqlDB quickstart is a straightforward way to experiment locally.
      • Once it’s running, you can execute the code examples in the article to see real-time materialized views in action.
      • Next Steps
      • Deep dive into ksqlDB’s fault tolerance and scaling model (i.e., how queries distribute across clusters).
      • Explore additional stream processing patterns such as windowed aggregations for time-based summaries.
      • Learn how joins work between tables and streams in ksqlDB (similar incremental update logic, but with different partitioning considerations).

      In essence, real-time materialized views in ksqlDB let you maintain continually up-to-date “snapshots” of streaming data. By storing incremental results in a local state store and capturing updates in a Kafka changelog, ksqlDB can serve extremely fast queries, recover quickly from failures, and scale out for large data volumes.

    1. apregunta por las condiciones de lo social viene desde siempre o, al menos, desde quela civilización occidental existe

      La pregunta por las condiciones de lo social

  4. biblioteca.clacso.edu.ar biblioteca.clacso.edu.ar
    1. ¿qué debe hacerse para que hayacondiciones mejores para una felicidad mayor de cada uno de nosotros? Esto es, lapregunta por las condiciones de lo social viene desde siempre o, al menos, desde quela civilización occidental existe. Y desde el principio, la pregunta tuvo, por así de-cirlo, un sentido utilitario. Se trata de una reflexión sobre nuestra convivencia, paramejorarla, para perfeccionarla

      Sobre la felicidad humana

    1. o Emanuel,"meaningful work" implies a paycheck and perhaps even an influence onthe world. The sort of work he does, in other words, though not the sortdone by most women and men

      Emanuel believes that meaningful work influences the world and is a payed job. Aronson disagrees with this notion.

    2. After decades spent caring almost exclu-sively fo r very o ld , frail people, I know three things: lives can have meaningdespite significa nt decline an d disability; different people draw the linein very different places as far as where they would like to die; and becauseof medicine's shortsighted approach to "progress," too many aged people areforced to go on once they've passed their natural and preferred thresholds asa result of medical "care."

      Aronson has learned that older people can be hindered by disabilities and have significant decline, all people have different ideas when they want to draw the line with dying, and people are forced to live on past their natural expiration due to medical intervention.

    3. Perhaps the average ninety -year-old isn'tdesigning the latest technolog y, but neither is the average twenty- or forty- orsixty-year-old. Most people aren't in tech, even if they regularly use it , whichb h . . . . f l t of us are irrelevant.means y t e prevailing tech1e logic o re evance, mos

      You can't segregate people based on age and all people are irrelevant because for people designing the latest technology aren't averagely in the ages of 20, 40, or 60.

    4. Modern life is so focused on time and speed and doing multiple thingsf h" "b hindsimultaneously that old people often are called "out o touc or

      Modern life is very fasted as we don't have time to lose and so we make our schedules was busy as possible to make time count.

    Annotators

    1. O weakling! O whoreson! Think of Nim-rod! Of an Alexander the Great! They judged themselves worthy torule not only the world, but the heavens as well

      This back and forth of mumbling/revealing true thoughts is kind of funny. sempronio is acting how I feel I would

    Annotators

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      (1) As VRMate (a component of behaviorMate) is written using Unity, what is the main advantage of using behaviorMate/VRMate compared to using Unity alone paired with Arduinos (e.g. Campbell et al. 2018), or compared to using an existing toolbox to interface with Unity (e.g. Alsbury-Nealy et al. 2022, DOI: 10.3758/s13428-021-01664-9)? For instance, one disadvantage of using Unity alone is that it requires programming in C# to code the task logic. It was not entirely clear whether VRMate circumvents this disadvantage somehow -- does it allow customization of task logic and scenery in the GUI? Does VRMate add other features and/or usability compared to Unity alone? It would be helpful if the authors could expand on this topic briefly.

      We have updated the manuscript (lines 412-422) to clarify the benefits of separating the VR system as an isolated program and a UI that can be run independently. We argue that “…the recommended behaviorMate architecture has several important advantages. Firstly, by rendering each viewing angle of a scene on a dedicated device, performance is improved by splitting the computational costs across several inexpensive devices rather than requiring specialized or expensive graphics cards in order to run…, the overall system becomes more modular and easier to debug [and] implementing task logic in Unity would require understanding Object-Oriented Programming and C# … which is not always accessible to researchers that are typically more familiar with scripting in Python and Matlab.”

      VRMate receives detailed configuration info from behaviorMate at runtime as to which VR objects to display and receives position updates during experiments. Any other necessary information about triggering rewards or presenting non-VR cues is still handled by the UI so no editing of Unity is necessary. Scene configuration information is in the same JSON format as the settings files for behaviorMate, additionally there are Unity Editor scripts which are provided in the VRmate repository which permit customizing scenes through a “drag and drop” interface and then writing the scene configuration files programmatically. Users interested in these features should see our github page to find example scene.vr files and download the VRMate repository (including the editor scripts).  We provided 4 vr contexts, as well as a settings file that uses one of them which can be found on the behaviorMate github page (https://github.com/losonczylab/behaviorMate) in the “vr_contexts” and “example_settigs_files” directories. These examples are provided to assist VRMate users in getting set up and could provide a more detailed example of how VRMate and behaviorMate interact.

      (2) The section on "context lists", lines 163-186, seemed to describe an important component of the system, but this section was challenging to follow and readers may find the terminology confusing. Perhaps this section could benefit from an accompanying figure or flow chart, if these terms are important to understand.

      We maintain the use of the term context and context list in order to maintain a degree of parity with the java code. However, we have updated lines 173-175 to define the term context for the behaviorMate system: “... a context is grouping of one or more stimuli that get activated concurrently. For many experiments it is desirable to have multiple contexts that are triggered at various locations and times in order to construct distinct or novel environments.”

      a. Relatedly, "context" is used to refer to both when the animal enters a particular state in the task like a reward zone ("reward context", line 447) and also to describe a set of characteristics of an environment (Figure 3G), akin to how "context" is often used in the navigation literature. To avoid confusion, one possibility would be to use "environment" instead of "context" in Figure 3G, and/or consider using a word like "state" instead of "context" when referring to the activation of different stimuli.

      Thank you for the suggestion. We have updated Figure 3G to say “Environment” in order to avoid confusion.

      (3) Given the authors' goal of providing a system that is easily synchronizable with neural data acquisition, especially with 2-photon imaging, I wonder if they could expand on the following features:

      a. The authors mention that behaviorMate can send a TTL to trigger scanning on the 2P scope (line 202), which is a very useful feature. Can it also easily generate a TTL for each frame of the VR display and/or each sample of the animal's movement? Such TTLs can be critical for synchronizing the imaging with behavior and accounting for variability in the VR frame rate or sampling rate.

      Different experimental demands require varying levels of precision in this kind of synchronization signals. For this reason, we have opted against a “one-size fits all” for synchronization with physiology data in behaviorMate. Importantly this keeps the individual rig costs low which can be useful when constructing setups specifically for use when training animals. behaviorMate will log TTL pulses sent to GPIO pins setup as sensors, and can be configured to generate TTL pulses at regular intervals. Additionally all UDP packets received by the UI are time stamped and logged. We also include the output of the arduino millis() function in all UDP packets which can be used for further investigation of clock drift between system components. Importantly, since the system is event driven there cannot be accumulating drift across running experiments between the behaviorMate UI and networked components such as the VR system.

      For these reasons, we have not needed to implement a VR frame synchronization TTL for any of our experiments, however, one could extend VRMate to send "sync" packets back to behaviorMate to log when each frame was displayed precisely or TTL pulses (if using the same ODROID hardware we recommend in the standard setup for rendering scenes). This would be useful if it is important to account for slight changes in the frame rate at which the scenes are displayed. However, splitting rendering of large scenes between several devices results in fast update times and our testing and benchmarks indicate that display updates are smooth and continuous enough to appear coupled to movement updates from the behavioral apparatus and sufficient for engaging navigational circuits in the brain.

      b. Is there a limit to the number of I/O ports on the system? This might be worth explicitly mentioning.

      We have updated lines 219-220 in the manuscript to provide this information: Sensors and actuators can be connected to the controller using one of the 13 digital or 5 analog input/output connectors.

      c. In the VR version, if each display is run by a separate Android computer, is there any risk of clock drift between displays? Or is this circumvented by centralized control of the rendering onset via the "real-time computer"?

      This risk is mitigated by the real-time computer/UI sending position updates to the VR displays. The maximum amount scenes can be out of sync is limited because they will all recalibrate on every position update – which occurs multiple times per second as the animal is moving. Moreover, because position updates are constantly being sent by behaviorMate to VRMate and VRMate is immediately updating the scene according to this position, the most the scene can become out of sync with the mouse's position is proportional to the maximum latency multiplied by the running speed of the mouse. For experiments focusing on eliciting an experience of navigation, such a degree of asynchrony is almost always negligible. For other experimental demands it could be possible to incorporate more precise frame timing information but this was not necessary for our use case and likely for most other use cases. Additionally, refer to the response to comment 3a.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      (1) The central controlling logic is coupled with GUI and an event loop, without a documented plugin system. It's not clear whether arbitrary code can be executed together with the GUI, hence it's not clear how much the functionality of the GUI can be easily extended without substantial change to the source code of the GUI. For example, if the user wants to perform custom real-time analysis on the behavior data (potentially for closed-loop stimulation), it's not clear how to easily incorporate the analysis into the main GUI/control program.

      Without any edits to the existing source code behaviorMate is highly customizable through the settings files, which allow users to combine the existing contexts and decorators in arbitrary combinations. Therefore, users have been able to perform a wide variety of 1D navigation tasks, well beyond our anticipated use cases by generating novel settings files. The typical method for providing closed-loop stimulation would be to set up a context which is triggered by animal behavior using decorators (e.g. based on position, lap number and time) and then trigger the stimulation with a TTL pulse. Rarely, if users require a behavioral condition not currently implemented or composable out of existing decorators, it would require generating custom code in Java to extend the UI. Performing such edits requires only knowledge of basic object-oriented programming in Java and generating a single subclass of either the BasicContextList or ContextListDecorator classes. In addition, the JavaFX (under development) version of behaviorMate incorporates a plugin which doesn't require recompiling the code in order to make these changes. However, since the JavaFX software is currently under development, documentation does not yet exist. All software is open-sourced and available on github.com for users interested in generating plugins or altering the source code.

      We have added the additional caveat to the manuscript in order to clarify this point (Line 197-202): “However, if the available set of decorators is not enough to implement the required task logic, some modifications to the source code may be necessary. These modifications, in most cases, would be very simple and only a basic understanding of object-oriented programming is required. A case where this might be needed would be performing novel customized real-time analysis on behavior data and activating a stimulus based on the result”

      (2) The JSON messaging protocol lacks API documentation. It's not clear what the exact syntax is, supported key/value pairs, and expected response/behavior of the JSON messages. Hence, it's not clear how to develop new hardware that can communicate with the behaviorMate system.

      The most common approach for adding novel hardware is to use TTL pulses (or accept an emitted TTL pulse to read sensor states). This type of hardware addition  is possible through the existing GPIO without the need to interact with the software or JSON API. Users looking to take advantage of the ability to set up and configure novel behavioral paradigms without the need to write any software would be limited to adding hardware which could be triggered with and report to the UI with a TTL pulse (however fairly complex actions could be triggered this way).

      For users looking to develop more customized hardware solutions that interact closely with the UI or GPIO board, additional documentation on the JSON messaging protocol has been added to the behaviormate-utils repository (https://github.com/losonczylab/behaviormate_utils). Additionally, we have added a link to this repository in the Supplemental Materials section (line 971) and referenced this in the manuscript (line 217) to make it easier for readers to find this information.

      Furthermore, developers looking to add completely novel components to the UI  can implement the interface described by Context.java in order to exchange custom messages with hardware. (described  in the JavaDoc: https://www.losonczylab.org/behaviorMate-1.0.0/)  These messages would be defined within the custom context and interact with the custom hardware (meaning the interested developer would make a novel addition to the messaging API). Additionally, it should be noted that without editing any software, any UDP packets sent to behaviorMate from an IP address specified in the settings will get time stamped and logged in the stored behavioral data file meaning that are a large variety of hardware implementation solutions using both standard UDP messaging and through TTL pulses that can work with behaviorMate with minimal effort. Finally, see response to R2.1 for a discussion of the JavaFX version of the behaviorMatee UI including plugin support.

      (3) It seems the existing control hardware and the JSON messaging only support GPIO/TTL types of input/output, which limits the applicability of the system to more complicated sensor/controller hardware. The authors mentioned that hardware like Arduino natively supports serial protocols like I2C or SPI, but it's not clear how they are handled and translated to JSON messages.

      We provide an implementation for an I2C-based capacitance lick detector which interested developers may wish to copy if support for novel I2C or SPI. Users with less development experience wishing to expand the hardware capabilities of  behaviorMatecould also develop adapters which can be triggered  on a TTL input/output. Additionally, more information about the JSON API and how messages are transmitted to the PC by the arduino is described in point (2) and the expanded online documentation.

      a. Additionally, because it's unclear how easy to incorporate arbitrary hardware with behaviorMate, the "Intranet of things" approach seems to lose attraction. Since currently, the manuscript focuses mainly on a specific set of hardware designed for a specific type of experiment, it's not clear what are the advantages of implementing communication over a local network as opposed to the typical connections using USB.

      As opposed to serial communication protocols as typical with USB, networking protocols seamlessly function based on asynchronous message passing. Messages may be routed internally (e.g. to a PCs localhost address, i.e. 0.0.0..0) or to a variety of external hardware (e.g. using IP addresses such as those in the range 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254). Furthermore, network-based communication allows modules, such as VR, to be added easily. behavoirMate systems can be easily expanded using low-cost Ethernet switches and consume only a single network adapter on the PC (e.g. not limited by the number of physical USB ports). Furthermore, UDP message passing is implemented in almost all modern programming languages in a platform independent manner (meaning that the same software can run on OSX, Windows, and Linux). Lastly, as we have pointed out (Line 117) a variety of tools exist for inspecting network packets and debugging; meaning that it is possible to run behaviorMate with simulated hardware for testing and debugging.

      The IOT nature of behaviorMate means there is no requirement for novel hardware to be implemented  using an arduino,  since any system capable of  UDP communication can  be configured. For example, VRMate is usually run on Odroid C4s, however one could easily create a system using Raspberry Pis or even additional PCs. behaviorMate is agnostic to the format of the UDP messages, but packaging any data in the JSON format for consistency would be encouraged. If a new hardware is a sensor that has input requiring it to be time stamped and logged then all that is needed is to add the IP address and port information to the ‘controllers’ list in a behaviorMate settings file. If more complex interactions are needed with novel hardware than a custom implementation of ContextList.java may be required (see response to R2.2). However, the provided UdpComms.java class could be used to easily send/receive messages from custom Context.java subclasses.

      Solutions for highly customized hardware do require basic familiarity with object-oriented programming using the Java programming language. However, in our experience most behavioral experiments do not require these kinds of modifications. The majority of 1D navigation tasks, which behaviorMate is currently best suited to control, require touch/motion sensors, LEDs, speakers, or solenoid valves,  which are easily controlled by the existing GPIO implementation. It is unlikely that custom subclasses would even be needed.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      (1) While using UDP for data transmission can enhance speed, it is thought that it lacks reliability. Are there error-checking mechanisms in place to ensure reliable communication, given its criticality alongside speed?

      The provided GPIO/behavior controller implementation sends acknowledgement packets in response to all incoming messages as well as start and stop messages for contexts and “valves”. In this way the UI can update to reflect both requested state changes as well as when they actually happen (although there is rarely a perceptible gap between these two states unless something is unplugged or not functioning). See Line 85 in the revised manuscript “acknowledgement packets are used to ensure reliable message delivery to and from connected hardware”.

      (2) Considering this year's price policy changes in Unity, could this impact the system's operations?

      VRMate is not affected by the recent changes in pricing structure of the Unity project.

      The existing compiled VRMate software does not need to be regenerated to update VR scenes, or implement new task logic (since this is handled by the behaviorMate GUI). Therefore, the VRMate program is robust to any future pricing changes or other restructuring of the Unity program and does not rely on continued support of Unity. Additionally, while the solution presented in VRMate has many benefits, a developer could easily adapt any open-source VR Maze project to receive the UDP-based position updates from behaviorMate or develop their own novel VR solutions.

      (3) Also, does the Arduino offer sufficient precision for ephys recording, particularly with a 10ms check?

      Electrophysiology recording hardware typically has additional I/O channels which can provide assistance with tracking behavior/synchronization at a high resolution. While behaviorMate could still be used to trigger reward valves, either the ephys hardware or some additional high-speed DAQ would be recommended to maintain accurately with high-speed physiology data. behaviorMate could still be set up as normal to provide closed and open-loop task control at behaviorally relevant timescales alongside a DAQ circuit recording events at a consistent temporal resolution. While this would increase the relative cost of the individual recording setup, identical rigs for training animals could still be configured without the DAQ circuit avoiding unnecessary cost and complexity.

      (4) Could you clarify the purpose of the Sync Pulse? In line 291, it suggests additional cues (potentially represented by the Sync Pulse) are needed to align the treadmill screens, which appear to be directed towards the Real-Time computer. Given that event alignment occurs in the GPIO, the connection of the Sync Pulse to the Real-Time Controller in Figure 1 seems confusing.

      A number of methods exist for synchronizing recording devices like microscopes or electrophysiology recordings with behaviorMate’s time-stamped logs of actuators and sensors. For example, the GPIO circuit can be configured to send sync triggers, or receive timing signals as input. Alternatively a dedicated circuit could record frame start signals and relay them to the PC to be logged independently of the GPIO (enabling a high-resolution post-hoc alignment of the time stamps). The optimal method to use varies based on the needs of the experiment. Our setups have a dedicated BNC output and specification in the settings file that sends a TTL pulse at the start of an experiment in order to trigger 2p imaging setups (see line 224, specifically that this is a detail of “our” 2p imaging setup). We provide this information as it might be useful suggesting how to have both behavior and physiology data start recording at the same time. We do not intend this to be the only solution for alignment. Figure 1 indicates an “optional” circuit for capturing a high speed sync pulse and providing time stamps back to the real time PC. This is another option that might be useful for certain setups (or especially for establishing benchmarks between behavior and physiology recordings). In our setup event alignment does not exclusively occur on the GPIO.

      a. Additionally, why is there a separate circuit for the treadmill that connects to the UI computer instead of the GPIO? It might be beneficial to elaborate on the rationale behind this decision in line 260.

      Event alignment does not occur on the GPIO, separating concerns between position tracking and more general input/output features which improves performance and simplifies debugging.  In this sense we maintain a single event loop on the Arduino, avoiding the need to either run multithreaded operations or rely extensively on interrupts which can cause unpredictable code execution (e.g. when multiple interrupts occur at the same time). Our position tracking circuit is therefore coupled to a separate,low-cost arduino mini which has the singular responsibility of position-tracking.

      b. Moreover, should scenarios involving pupil and body camera recordings connect to the Analog input in the PCB or the real-time computer for optimal data handling and processing?

      Pupil and body camera recordings would be independent data streams which can be recorded separately from behaviorMate. Aligning these forms of full motion video could require frame triggers which could be configured on the GPIO board using single TTL like outputs or by configuring a valve to be “pulsed” which is a provided type customization.

      We also note that a more advanced developer could easily leverage camera signals to provide closed loop control by writing an independent module that sends UDP packets to behavoirMate. For example a separate computer vision based position tracking module could be written in any preferred language and use UDP messaging to send body tracking updates to the UI without editing any of the behaviorMate source code (and even used for updating 1D location).

      (5) Given that all references, as far as I can see, come from the same lab, are there other labs capable of implementing this system at a similar optimal level?

      To date two additional labs have published using behaviorMate, the Soltez and Henn labs (see revised lines 341-342). Since behaviorMate has only recently been published and made available open source, only external collaborators of the Losonczy lab have had access to the software and design files needed to do this. These collaborators did, however, set up their own behavioral setups in separate locations with minimal direct support from the authors–similar to what would be available to anyone seeking to set a behaviorMate system would find online on our github page or by posting to the message board.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (4) To provide additional context for the significance of this work, additional citations would be helpful to demonstrate a ubiquitous need for a system like behaviorMate. This was most needed in the paragraph from lines 46-65, specifically for each sentence after line 55, where the authors discuss existing variants on head-fixed behavioral paradigms. For instance, for the clause "but olfactory and auditory stimuli have also been utilized at regular virtual distance intervals to enrich the experience with more salient cues", suggested citations include Radvansky & Dombeck 2018 (DOI: 10.1038/s41467-018-03262-4), Fischler-Ruiz et al. 2021 (DOI: 10.1016/j.neuron.2021.09.055).

      We thank the reviewer for the suggested missing citations and have updated the manuscript accordingly (see line 58).

      (5) In addition, it would also be helpful to clarify behaviorMate's implementation in other laboratories. On line 304 the authors mention "other labs" but the following list of citations is almost exclusively from the Losonczy lab. Perhaps the citations just need to be split across the sentence for clarity? E.g. "has been validated by our experimental paradigms" (citation set 1) "and successfully implemented in other labs as well" (citation set 2).

      We have split the citation set as suggested (see lines 338-342).

      Minor Comments:

      (6) In the paragraph starting line 153 and in Fig. 2, please clarify what is meant by "trial" vs. "experiment". In many navigational tasks, "trial" refers to an individual lap in the environment, but here "trial" seems to refer to the whole behavioral session (i.e. synonymous with "experiment"?).

      In our software implementation we had originally used “trial” to refer to an imaging session rather than experiment (and have made updates to start moving to the more conventional lexicon). To avoid confusion we have remove this use of “trial” throughout the manuscript and replaced with “experiment” whenever possible

      (7) This is very minor, but in Figure 3 and 4, I don't believe the gavage needle is actually shown in the image. This is likely to avoid clutter but might be confusing to some readers, so it may be helpful to have a small inset diagram showing how the needle would be mounted.

      We assessed the image both with and without the gavage needle and found the version in the original (without) to be easier to read and less cluttered and therefore maintained that version in the manuscript.

      (8) In Figure 5 legend, please list n for mice and cells.

      We have updated the Figure 5 legend to indicate that for panels C-G, n=6 mice (all mice were recorded in both VR and TM systems), 3253 cells in VR classified as significantly tuned place cells VR, and 6101 tuned cells in TM,

      (9) Line 414: It is not necessary to tilt the entire animal and running wheel as long as the head-bar clamp and objective can rotate to align the imaging window with the objective's plane of focus. Perhaps the authors can just clarify the availability of this option if users have a microscope with a rotatable objective/scan head.

      We have added the suggested caveat to the manuscript in order to clarify when the goniometers might be useful (see lines 281-288).

      (10) Figure S1 and S2 could be referenced explicitly in the main text with their related main figures.

      We have added explicit references to figures S1 and S2 in the relevant sections (see lines 443, 460  and 570)

      (11) On line 532-533, is there a citation for "proximal visual cues and tactile cues (which are speculated to be more salient than visual cues)"?

      We have added citations to both Knierim & Rao 2003 and Renaudineau et al. 2007 which discuss the differential impact of proximal vs distal cues during navigation as well as Sofroniew et al. 2014 which describe how mice navigate more naturally in a tactile VR setup as opposed to purely visual ones.

      (12) There is a typo at the end of the Figure 2 legend, where it should say "Arduino Mini."

      This typo has been fixed.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (4) As mentioned in the public review: what is the major advantage of taking the IoT approaches as opposed to USB connections to the host computer, especially when behaviorMate relies on a central master computer regardless? The authors mentioned the readability of the JSON messages, making the system easier to debug. However, the flip side of that is the efficiency of data transmission. Although the bandwidth/latency is usually more than enough for transmitting data and commands for behavior devices, the efficiency may become a problem when neural recording devices (imaging or electrophysiology) need to be included in the system.

      behaviorMate is not intended to do everything, and is limited to mainly controlling behavior and providing some synchronizing TTL style triggers. In this way the system can easily and inexpensively be replicated across multiple recording setups; particularly this is useful for constructing additional animal training setups. The system is very much sufficient for capturing behavioral inputs at relevant timescales (see the benchmarks in Figures 3 and 4 as well as the position correlated neural activity in Figures 5 and 6 for demonstration of this). Additional hardware might be needed to align the behaviorMate output with neural data for example a high-speed DAQ or input channels on electrophysiology recording setups could be utilized (if provided). As all recording setups are different the ideal solution would depend on details which are hard to anticipate. We do not mean to convey that the full neural data would be transmitted to the behaviorMate system (especially using the JSON/UDP communications that behaviorMate relies on).

      (5) The author mentioned labView. A popular open-source alternative is bonsai (https://github.com/bonsai-rx/bonsai). Both include a graphical-based programming interface that allows the users to easily reconfigure the hardware system, which behaviorMate seems to lack. Additionally, autopilot (https://github.com/auto-pi-lot/autopilot) is a very relevant project that utilizes a local network for multiple behavior devices but focuses more on P2P communication and rigorously defines the API/schema/communication protocols for devices to be compatible. I think it's important to include a discussion on how behaviorMate compares to previous works like these, especially what new features behaviorMate introduces.

      We believe that behaviorMate provides a more opinionated and complete solution than the projects mentioned. A wide variety of 1D navigational paradigms can be constructed in behaviorMate without the need to write any novel software. For example, bonsai is a “visual programming language” and would require experimenters to construct a custom implementation of each of their experiments. We have opted to use Java for the UI with distributed computations across modules in various languages. Given the IOT methodology it would be possible to use any number of programming languages or APIs; a large number of design decisions were made  when building the project and we have opted to not include this level of detail in the manuscript in order to maintain readability. We strongly believe in using non-proprietary and open source projects, when possible, which is why the comparison with LabView based solutions was included in the introduction. Also, we have added a reference to the autopilot reference to the section of the introduction where this is discussed.

      (6) One of the reasons labView/bonsai are popular is they are inherently parallel and can simultaneously respond to events from different hardware sources. While the JSON events in behaviorMate are asynchronous in nature, the handling of those events seems to happen only in a main event loop coupled with GUI, which is sequential by nature. Is there any multi-threading/multi-processing capability of behaviorMate? If so it's an important feature to highlight. If not I think it's important to discuss the potential limitation of the current implementation.

      IOT solutions are inherently concurrent since the computation is distributed. Additional parallelism could be added by further distributing concerns between additional independent modules running on independent hardware. The UI has an eventloop which aggregates inputs and then updates contexts based on the current state of those inputs sequentially. This sort of a “snapshot” of the current state is necessary to reason about when the start certain contexts based on their settings and applied decorators. While the behaviorMate UI uses multithreading libraries in Java to be more performant in certain cases, the degree to which this represents true vs “virtual” concurrency would depend on the individual PC architecture it is run on and how the operating system allocates resources. For this reason, we have argued in the manuscript that behaviorMate is sufficient for controlling experiments at behaviorally relevant timescales, and have presented both benchmarks and discussed different synchronization approaches and permit users to determine if this is sufficient for their needs.

      (7) The context list is an interesting and innovative approach to abstract behavior contingencies into a data structure, but it's not currently discussed in depth. I think it's worth highlighting how the context list can be used to cover a wide range of common behavior experimental contingencies with detailed examples (line 185 might be a good example to give). It's also important to discuss the limitation, as currently the context lists seem to only support contingencies based purely on space and time, without support for more complicated behavior metrics (e.g. deliver reward only after X% correct).

      To access more complex behavior metrics during runtime, custom context list decorators would need to be implemented. While this is less common in the sort of 1D navigational behaviors the project was originally designed to control, adding novel decorators is a simple process that only requires basic object oriented programming knowledge. As discussed we are also implementing a plugin-architecture in the JavaFX update to streamline these types of additions.

      Minor Comments:

      (8) In line 202, the author suggests that a single TTL pulse is sent to mark the start of a recording session, and this is used to synchronize behavior data with imaging data later. In other words, there are no synchronization signals for every single sample/frame. This approach either assumes the behavior recording and imaging are running on the same clock or assumes evenly distributed recording samples over the whole recording period. Is this the case? If so, please include a discussion on limitations and alternative approaches supported by behaviorMate. If not, please clarify how exactly synchronization is done with one TTL pulse.

      While the TTL pulse triggers the start of neural data in our setups, various options exist for controlling for the described clock drift across experiments and the appropriate one depends on the type of recordings made, frame rate duration of recording etc. Therefore behaviorMate leaves open many options for synchronization at different time scales (e.g. the adding a frame-sync circuit as shown in Figure 1 or sending TTL pulses to the same DAQ recording electrophysiology data).  Expanded consideration of different synchronization methods has been included in the manuscript (see lines 224-238).

      (9) Is the computer vision-based calibration included as part of the GUI functionality? Please clarify. If it is part of the GUI, it's worth highlighting as a very useful feature.

      The computer vision-based benchmarking is not included in the GUI. It is in the form of a script made specifically for this paper. However for treadmill-based experiments behaviorMate has other calibration tools built into it (see line 301-303).

      (10) I went through the source code of the Arduino firmware, and it seems most "open X for Y duration" functions are implemented using the delay function. If this is indeed the case, it's generally a bad idea since delay completely pauses the execution and any events happening during the delay period may be missed. As an alternative, please consider approaches comparing timestamps or using interrupts.

      We have avoided the use of interrupts on the GPIO due to the potential for unpredictable code execution. There is a delay which is only just executed if the duration is 10 ms or less as we cannot guarantee precision of the arduino eventloop cycling faster than this. Durations longer than 10 ms would be time stamped and non-blocking. We have adjusted this MAX_WAIT to be specified as a macro so it can be more easily adjusted (or set to 0).

      (11) Figure 3 B, C, D, and Figure 4 D, E suffer from noticeable low resolution.

      We have converted Figure 3B, C, D and 4C, D, E to vector graphics in order to improve the resolution.

      (12) Figure 4C is missing, which is an important figure.

      This figure appeared when we rendered and submitted the manuscript. We apologize if the figure was generated such that it did not load properly in all pdf viewers. The panel appears correctly in the online eLife version of the manuscript. Additionally, we have checked the revision in Preview on Mac OS as well as Adobe Acrobat and the built-in viewer in Chrome and all figure panels appear in each so we hope this issue has been resolved.

      (13) There are thin white grid lines on all heatmaps. I don't think they are necessary.

      The grid lines have been removed from the heatmaps  as suggested.

      (14) Line 562 "sometimes devices directly communicate with each other for performance reasons", I didn't find any elaboration on the P2P communication in the main text. This is potentially worth highlighting as it's one of the advantages of taking the IoT approaches.

      In our implementation it was not necessary to rely on P2P communication beyond what is indicated in Figure 1. The direct communication referred to in line 562 is meant only to refer to the examples expanded on in the rest of the paragraph i.e. the behavior controller may signal the microscope directly using a TTL signal without looping back to the UI. As necessary users could implement UDP message passing between devices, but this is outside the scope of what we present in the manuscript.

      (15) Line 147 "Notably, due to the systems modular architecture, different UIs could be implemented in any programming language and swapped in without impacting the rest of the system.", this claim feels unsupported without a detailed discussion of how new code can be incorporated in the GUI (plugin system).

      This comment refers to the idea of implementing “different UIs”. This would entail users desiring to take advantage of the JSON messaging API and the proposed electronics while fully implementing their own interface. In order to facilitate this option we have improved documentation of the messaging API posted in the README file accompanying the arduino source code. We have added reference to the supplemental materials where readers can find a link to the JSON API implementation to clarify this point.

      Additionally, while a plugin system is available in the JavaFX version of behaviorMate, this project is currently under development and will update the online documentation as this project matures, but is unrelated to the intended claim about completely swapping out the UI.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      (6) Figure 1 - the terminology for each item is slightly different in the text and the figure. I think making the exact match can make it easier for the reader.

      - Real-time computer (figure) vs real-time controller (ln88).

      The manuscript was adjusted to match figure terminology.

      - The position controller (ln565) - position tracking (Figure).

      We have updated Figure 1 to highlight that the position controller does the position tracking.

      - Maybe add a Behavior Controller next to the GPIO box in Figure 1.

      We updated Figure 1 to highlight that the Behavior Controller performs the GPIO responsibility such that "Behavior Controller" and "GPIO circuit" may be used interchangeably.

      - Position tracking (fig) and position controller (subtitle - ln209).

      We updated Figure 1 to highlight that the position controller does the position tracking.

      - Sync Pulse is not explained in the text.

      The caption for Figure 1 has been updated to better explain the Sync pulse and additional systems boxes

      (7) For Figure 3B/C: What is the number of data points? It would be nice to see the real population, possibly using a swarm plot instead of box plots. How likely are these outliers to occur?

      In order to better characterize the distributions presented in our benchmarking data we have added mean and standard deviation information the plots 3 and 4. For Figure 3B: 0.0025 +/- 0.1128, Figure 3C: 12.9749 +/- 7.6581, Figure 4C: 66.0500 +/- 15.6994, Figure 4E: 4.1258 +/- 3.2558.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Time periods in which experience regulates early plasticity in sensory circuits are well established, but the mechanisms that control these critical periods are poorly understood. In this manuscript, Leier and Foden and colleagues examine early-life critical periods that regulate the Drosophila antennal lobe, a model sensory circuit for understanding synaptic organization. Using early-life (0-2 days old) exposure to distinct odorants, they show that constant odor exposure markedly reduces the volume, synapse number, and function of the VM7 glomerulus. The authors offer evidence that these changes are mediated by invasion of ensheathing glia into the glomerulus where they phagocytose connections via a mechanism involving the engulfment receptor Draper.

      This manuscript is a striking example of a study where the questions are interesting, the authors spent a considerable amount of time to clearly think out the best experiments to ask their questions in the most straightforward way, and expressed the results in a careful, cogent, and well-written fashion. It was a genuine delight to read this paper. I have two experimental suggestions that would really round out existing work to better support the existing conclusions and some instances where additional data or tempered language in describing results would better support their conclusions. Overall, though, this is an incredibly important finding, a careful analysis, and an excellent mechanistic advance in understanding sensory critical period biology.

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughtful and constructive comments on our manuscript. In response to their critiques, we conducted several new experiments as well as additional analysis and making changes to the text. As requested, we carried out an electrophysiological analysis of VM7 PN firing in draper knockdown animals with and without odor exposure. To our surprise, loss of glial Draper fully suppresses the dramatic reduction in spontaneous PN activity observed following critical period ethyl butyrate exposure, arguing that the functional response is restored alongside OSN morphology. It also suggests that the OR42a OSN terminals are intact and functional until they are phagocytosed by ensheathing glia. In other words, glia are not merely clearing axon terminals that have already degenerated. This evidence provides additional support to the claim that the VM7 glomerulus will be an outstanding model for defining mechanism of experience-dependent glial pruning. Detailed responses to the reviewers’ comments follow below. 

      Regarding the apparent disconnect between the near complete silencing of PNs versus the 50% reduction in OR42a OSN infiltration volume, we agree with the reviewer that this tracks with previous data in the field. While our Imaris pipeline is relatively sensitive, it may not pick up modest changes to terminal arbor architecture. Indeed, as described in Jindal et al. (2023) and in the Methods in this manuscript, we chose conservative software settings that, if anything, would undercount the percent change in infiltration volume. We also note that increased inhibitory LN inputs onto PNs could contribute to dramatic PN silencing we observe. While fascinating, we view LN plasticity beyond the scope of the current manuscript. We removed any mention of ‘silent synapses’ and now speculate about increased inhibition. 

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Major Elements:

      (1) The authors demonstrate that loss of draper in glia can suppress many of the pruning related phenotypes associated with EB exposure. However, they do not assess electrophysiological output in these experiments, only morphology. It would be great to see recordings from those animals to see if the functional response is also restored.

      We performed the experiment the reviewer requested (see Figure 4F-J). We are pleased to report that our recordings from VM7 PNs match our morphology measurements: in repo-GAL4>UAS-draper RNAi flies, there was no difference in the innervation of VM7 PNs between animals exposed to mineral oil or 15% EB from 0-2 DPE. This result is in sharp contrast to the near-total loss of OSN-PN innervation in flies with intact glial Draper signaling, and strongly validates the role we propose for Draper in the Or42a OSN critical period.

      (2) There is a disconnect between physiology and morphology with a near complete loss of activity from VM7 PNs but a less severe loss of ORN synapses. While not completely incongruent (previous work in the AL showed a complete loss of attractive behavior though synapse number was only reduced 40% - Mosca et al. 2017, eLife), it is curious. Can the authors comment further? Ideally, some of these synapses could be visualized by EM to determine if the remaining synapses are indeed of correct morphology. If not, this could support their assertion of silent inputs from page 7. Further, what happens to the remaining synapses? VM7 PNs should be receiving some activity from other local interneurons as well as neighboring PNs.

      We agree that on the surface, our electrophysiology results are more striking than one might expect solely from our measurements of VM7 morphology and presynaptic content. As the reviewer points out, previous studies of fly olfaction have consistently found that relatively modest shifts in glomerular volume in response to prolonged earlylife odorant exposure can be accompanied by drastic changes in physiology and behavior (in addition, we would add Devaud et al., 2003; Devaud et al., 2001; Acebes et al., 2012; and Chodankar et al., 2020, as foundational examples of this phenomenon). 

      A major driver of these changes appears to be remodeling of antennal lobe inhibitory LNs (see Das et al., 2011; Wilson and Laurent, 2005; Chodankar et al., 2020), especially GABAergic inhibitory interneurons. Perhaps increased LN inhibition of chronically activated PNs, on top of the reduced excitatory inputs resulting from ensheathing glial pruning of the Or42a OSN terminal arbor, would explain the near-total loss of VM7 PN activity we observe after critical period EB exposure. However, given that the scope of our study is limited to critical-period glial biology and does not address the complex topics of LN rewiring or synapse morphology, we have removed the sentence in which we raise the possibility of “silent synapses” in order to avoid confusion. The reviewer is also correct that VM7 PNs have inputs from non-ORN presynaptic partners, including LNs and PNs. So again, perhaps increased inhibitory inputs contributes to the near-complete silencing of the PNs. Given the heterogeneity of LN populations, we view this area as fertile ground for future research. 

      Language / Data Considerations:

      (1) Or42a OSNs have other inputs, namely, from LNs. What are they doing here? Are they also affected?

      As discussed above, the question of how LN innervation of Or42a OSNs is altered by critical-period EB exposure is an intriguing one that fully deserves its own follow-up study, and we have tried to avoid speculation about the role of LNs when discussing our pruning phenotype. We note at multiple points throughout the text the importance of LNs and refer to previous studies of LN plasticity in response to chronic odorant exposure. 

      (2) In all of the measurements, what happens to synaptic density? Is it maintained? Does it scale precisely? This would be helpful to know.

      We have performed the analysis as requested, which is now included in a supplement to Figure 5. We found that synaptic density shows no trend in variation across conditions and glial driver genotypes.

      (3) In Figure 5, the controls for the alrm-GAL4 experiments show a much more drastic phenotype than controls in previous figures? Does this background influence how we can interpret the results? Could the response have instead hit a floor effect and it's just not possible to recover?

      The reviewer is correct that following EB exposure, astrocyte vs. ensheathing glial driver backgrounds displayed modest differences in the extent of pruning by volume (0.27 for astros, 0.36 for EG). We note that the two drpr RNAi lines that we used had non-significant (but opposite) effects on the estimated size of OSN42a OSN volume in combination with the astrocyte driver, arguing against a floor effect. In addition, a recent publication by Nelson et al. (2024) replicated our findings with a different astrocyte GAL4 driver and draper RNAi line. Thus, we are confident that this result is biologically meaningful and not an artifact of genetic background. 

      (4) The estimation of infiltration measurement in Figure 6 is tricky to interpret. It implies that the projections occupy the same space, which cannot be possible. I'd advocate a tempering of some of this language and consider an intensity measurement in addition to their current volume measurements (or perhaps an "occupied space" measurement) to more accurately assess the level of resolution that can be obtained via these methods.

      We completely agree that our language in describing EG infiltration could have been more precise, and we modified our language as suggested. The combination of the Or42a-mCD8::GFP label we and others use, our use of confocal microscopy, and our Surface pipeline in Imaris combine to create a glomerular mask that traces the outline of the OSN terminal arbor, but is nonetheless not 100% “filled” by neuronal membrane and/or glial processes. 

      (5) Do the authors have the kind of resolution needed to tell whether there is indeed Or42a-positive axon fragmentation (as asserted on p16 and from their data in figures 4, 5, 7). If the authors want to say this, I would advocate for a measurement of fragmentation / total volume to prove it - if not, I would advocate tempering of the current language.

      The reviewer brings up a fair criticism: while our assertion about axon fragmentation was based on our visual observations of hundreds of EB-exposed brains, the resolution limits of confocal microscopy do not allow us to rigorously rule out fragmentation within a bundle of OSN axons. Instead, our most compelling evidence for the lack of EB-induced Or42a OSN fragmentation in the absence of glial Draper comes from our new electrophysiology data (Figure 4F-J) in repo-GAL4>UAS-draper RNAi animals. We found no difference in spontaneous release from Or42a terminals in flies exposed to mineral oil or 15% EB from 0-2 DPE, which would not be the case if there was Draper-independent fragmentation along the axons or terminal arbors upon EB exposure. We have updated our discussion of fragmentation so that our statements are based on this new evidence, and not confocal microscopy. 

      (6) There is an interesting Discussion opportunity missed here. Some experiments would, ostensibly, require pupae to detect odorants within the casing via structures consistently in place for olfaction during pupation. It would be useful for the authors to discuss a little more deeply when this critical period may arise and why the experiment where pupae are exposed to EB two days before eclosion and there is no response, occurs as it does. I agree that it's clearly a time when they are not sensitive to the odorant, but that could just be because there's no ability to detect odorants at that time. Is it a question of non-sensitivity to EB or just non-sensitivity to everything?

      We share the reviewer’s interest in the plasticity of the olfactory circuit during pupariation, although, as they correctly point out, it is difficult to conceive of an odorant-exposure experiment that could disentangle the barrier effects of puparium from the sensitivity of the circuit itself, and our pre-eclosion data in Figure 3A, D, G does not distinguish between the two. While an investigation into mechanism by which the critical period for ethyl butyrate exposure opens and closes is outside the scope of the present study, we would consider the physical barrier of the puparium to be a satisfactory explanation for why eclosion marks the functional opening of experiencedependent plasticity. As the reviewer suggests, we have added this important nuance to our discussion of the opening of the critical period in the corresponding paragraph of the Results, as well as to the Discussion section “Glomeruli exhibit dichotomous responses to critical period odor exposure.” 

      Minor Elements:

      (1) Page 6 bottom: "Or4a-mCD8::GFP" should be "Or42a-mCD8::GFP"

      (2) Page 15, end of last full paragraph. Remove the "e"

      Thank you for pointing out these typos. They have been corrected. 

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Sensory experiences during developmental critical periods have long-lasting impacts on neural circuit function and behavior. However, the underlying molecular and cellular mechanisms that drive these enduring changes are not fully understood. In Drosophila, the antennal lobe is composed of synapses between olfactory sensory neurons (OSNs) and projection neurons (PNs), arranged into distinct glomeruli. Many of these glomeruli show structural plasticity in response to early-life odor exposure, reflecting the sensitivity of the olfactory circuitry to early sensory experiences.

      In their study, the authors explored the role of glia in the development of the antennal lobe in young adult flies, proposing that glial cells might also play a role in experiencedependent plasticity. They identified a critical period during which both structural and functional plasticity of OSN-PN synapses occur within the ethyl butyrate (EB)responsive VM7 glomerulus. When flies were exposed to EB within the first two days post-eclosion, significant reductions in glomerular volume, presynaptic terminal numbers, and postsynaptic activity were observed. The study further highlights the importance of the highly conserved engulfment receptor Draper in facilitating this critical period plasticity. The authors demonstrated that, in response to EB exposure during this developmental window, ensheathing glia increase Draper expression, infiltrate the VM7 glomerulus, and actively phagocytose OSN presynaptic terminals. This synapse pruning has lasting effects on circuit function, leading to persistent decreases in both OSN-PN synapse numbers and spontaneous PN activity as analyzed by perforated patch-clamp electrophysiology to record spontaneous activity from PNs postsynaptic to Or42a OSNs.

      In my view, this is an intriguing and potentially valuable set of data. However, since I am not an expert in critical periods or habituation, I do not feel entirely qualified to assess the full significance or the novelty of their findings, particularly in relation to existing research.

      We thank the reviewer for their insightful critique of our work. In response to their comments, we added additional physiological analysis and tempered our language around possible explanations for the apparent disconnect between the physiological and morphological critical period odor exposure. These changes are explained in more detail in the response to the public review by Reviewer 1 and also in our responses outlined below. 

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      I though do have specific comments and questions concerning the presynaptic phenotype they deduce from confocal BRP stainings and electrophysiology.

      Concerning the number of active zones: this can hardly be deduced from standardresolution confocal images and, maybe more importantly, lacking postsynaptic markers. This particularly also in the light of them speculating about "silent synapses". There are now tools existing concerning labeled, cell type specific expression of acetylcholine-receptor expression and cholinergic postsynaptic density markers (importantly Drep2). Such markers should be entailed in their analysis. They should refer to previous concerning "brp-short" concerning its original invention and prior usage.

      We thank the reviewer for their thoughtful approach to our methodology and claims. While the use of confocal microscopy of Bruchpilot puncta to estimate numbers of presynapses is standard practice (see Furusawa et al., 2023; Aimino et al., 2022; Urwyler et al., 2019; Ackerman et al., 2021), the reviewer is correct that a punctum does not an active zone make. Bruchpilot staining and quantification is a well-validated tool for approximating the number of presynaptic active zones, not a substitute for super-resolution microscopy. We made changes to our language about active zones to make this distinction clearer. We have also removed the sentence where we discuss the possibility of “silent synapses,” which both reviewers felt was too speculative for our existing data. Finally, we are highly interested in characterizing the response of PNs and higher-order processing centers to critical-period odorant exposure as a future direction for our research. However, given the complexity of the subject, we chose to limit the scope of this study to the interactions between OSNs and glia. 

      Regarding their electrophysiological analysis and the plausibility of their findings: I am uncertain whether the moderate reduction in BRP puncta at the relevant OSN::PN synapse can fully account for the significantly reduced spontaneous PN activity they report. This seems particularly doubtful in the absence of any direct evidence for postsynaptically silent synapses. Perhaps this is my own naivety, but I wonder why they did not use antennal nerve stimulation in their experiments?

      We refer to previous studies of the AL indicating that moderate changes in glomerular volume and presynaptic content can translate to far more striking alterations in electrophysiology and behavior (Devaud et al., 2003; Devaud et al., 2001; Acebes et al., 2012; and Chodankar et al., 2020, Mosca et al., 2017). This literature has demonstrated that chronic odorant exposure can result in remodeling of inhibitory local interneurons to suppress over-active inputs from OSNs. While we do not address the complex subject of interneuron remodeling in the present study, we find it highly likely that there would be significant changes in interneuron innervation of PNs, independent of glial phagocytosis of OSN excitatory inputs, resulting in additional inhibition. Moving forward, we are very interested in expanding these studies to include odor-evoked changes in PN activity.  

      Additional minor point: The phrase "Soon after its molecular biology was described (et al., 1999), the Drosophila melanogaster" seems somewhat misleading. Isn't the field still actively describing the molecular biology of the fly olfactory system?

      We completely agree and have removed this sentence entirely.  

      Reviewing Editor's Note: to enhance the evidence from mostly compelling in most facets to solid would be to add physiology to the Draper analysis.

      These experiments have been completed and are presented in Figure 4F-J. 

      References

      Acebes A, Devaud J-M, Arnés M, Ferrús A. 2012. Central Adaptation to Odorants Depends on PI3K Levels in Local Interneurons of the Antennal Lobe. J Neurosci 32:417–422. doi:10.1523/jneurosci.2921-11.2012

      Ackerman SD, Perez-Catalan NA, Freeman MR, Doe CQ. 2021. Astrocytes close a motor circuit critical period. Nature592:414–420. doi:10.1038/s41586-021-03441-2

      Aimino MA, DePew AT, Restrepo L, Mosca TJ. 2022. Synaptic Development in Diverse Olfactory Neuron Classes Uses Distinct Temporal and Activity-Related Programs. J Neurosci 43:28–55. doi:10.1523/jneurosci.0884-22.2022

      Chodankar A, Sadanandappa MK, VijayRaghavan K, Ramaswami M. 2020. Glomerulus-Selective Regulation of a Critical Period for Interneuron Plasticity in the Drosophila Antennal Lobe. J Neurosci 40:5549–5560. doi:10.1523/jneurosci.2192-19.2020

      Das S, Sadanandappa MK, Dervan A, Larkin A, Lee JA, Sudhakaran IP, Priya R, Heidari R, Holohan EE, Pimentel A, Gandhi A, Ito K, Sanyal S, Wang JW, Rodrigues V, Ramaswami M. 2011. Plasticity of local GABAergic interneurons drives olfactory habituation. Proc Natl Acad Sci 108:E646–E654. doi:10.1073/pnas.1106411108 Devaud J, Acebes A, Ramaswami M, Ferrús A. 2003. Structural and functional changes in the olfactory pathway of adult Drosophila take place at a critical age. J Neurobiol 56:13–23. doi:10.1002/neu.10215

      Devaud J-M, Acebes A, Ferrus A. 2001. Odor Exposure Causes Central Adaptation and ́Morphological Changes in Selected Olfactory Glomeruli in Drosophila. J Neurosci 21:6274–6282. doi:10.1523/jneurosci.21-16-06274.2001

      Furusawa K, Ishii K, Tsuji M, Tokumitsu N, Hasegawa E, Emoto K. 2023. Presynaptic Ube3a E3 ligase promotes synapse elimination through down-regulation of BMP signaling. Science 381:1197–1205. doi:10.1126/science.ade8978

      Mosca TJ, Luginbuhl DJ, Wang IE, Luo L. 2017. Presynaptic LRP4 promotes synapse number and function of excitatory CNS neurons. eLife 6:e27347. doi:10.7554/elife.27347

      Nelson N, Vita DJ, Broadie K. 2024. Experience-dependent glial pruning of synaptic glomeruli during the critical period. Sci Rep 14:9110. doi:10.1038/s41598-024-59942-3

      Urwyler O, Izadifar A, Vandenbogaerde S, Sachse S, Misbaer A, Schmucker D. 2019. Branch-restricted localization of phosphatase Prl-1 specifies axonal synaptogenesis domains. Science 364. doi:10.1126/science.aau9952

      Wilson RI, Laurent G. 2005. Role of GABAergic Inhibition in Shaping Odor-Evoked Spatiotemporal Patterns in the Drosophila Antennal Lobe. J Neurosci 25:9069–9079.

      doi:10.1523/jneurosci.2070-05.2005

    1. eLife Assessment

      This study presents a new quantitative method, CROWN-seq, to map the cap-adjacent RNA modification N6,2'-O-dimethyladenosine (m6Am) with single nucleotide resolution. Using thoughtful controls and well-validated reagents, the authors provide compelling evidence that the method is reliable and reproducible. Additionally, the study provides important evidence that m6Am may increase transcription in modified mRNAs. However, the data only demonstrates a correlation between m6Am and transcriptional regulation rather than causality. Overall, this study is poised to advance m6Am research, being of broad interest to the RNA biology and gene regulation fields.

    2. Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In this manuscript, Liu et al. present CROWN-seq, a technique that simultaneously identifies transcription-start nucleotides and quantifies N6,2'-O-dimethyladenosine (m6Am) stoichiometry. This method is derived from ReCappable-seq and GLORI, a chemical deamination approach that differentiates A and N6-methylated A. Using ReCappable-seq and CROWN-seq, the authors found that genes frequently utilize multiple transcription start sites, and isoforms beginning with an Am are almost always N6-methylated. These findings are consistently observed across nine cell lines. Unlike prior reports that associated m6Am with mRNA stability and expression, the authors suggest here that m6Am may increase transcription when combined with specific promoter sequences and initiation mechanisms. Additionally, they report intriguing insights on m6Am in snRNA and snoRNA and its regulation by FTO. Overall, the manuscript presents a strong body of work that will significantly advance m6Am research.

      Strengths:

      The technology development part of the work is exceptionally strong, with thoughtful controls and well-supported conclusions.

      Weaknesses:

      Given the high stoichiometry of m6Am, further association with upstream and downstream sequences (or promoter sequences) does not appear to yield strong signals. As such, transcription initiation regulation by m6Am, suggested by the current work, warrants further investigation.

    3. Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary:

      In the manuscript "Decoding m6Am by simultaneous transcription-start mapping and methylation quantification" Liu and co-workers describe the development and application of CROWN-Seq, a new specialized library preparation and sequencing technique designed to detect the presence of cap-adjacent N6,2'-O-dimethyladenosine (m6Am) with single nucleotide resolution. Such a technique was a key need in the field since prior attempts to get accurate positional or quantitative measurements of m6Am positioning yielded starkly different results and failed to generate a consistent set of targets. As noted in the strengths section below the authors have developed a robust assay that moves the field forward.

      Furthermore, their results show that most mRNAs whose transcription start nucleotide (TSN) is an 'A' are in fact m6Am (85%+ for most cell lines). They also show that snRNAs and snoRNAs have a substantially lower prevalence of m6Am TSNs.

      Strengths:

      Critically, the authors spent substantial time and effort to validate and benchmark the new technique with spike-in standards during development, cross-comparison with prior techniques, and validation of the technique's performance using a genetic PCIF1 knockout. Finally, they assayed nine different cell lines to cross-validate their results. The outcome of their work (a reliable and accurate method to catalog cap-adjacent m6Am) is a particularly notable achievement and is a needed advance for the field.

      Weaknesses:

      No major concerns were identified by this reviewer.

      Mid-level Concerns: All previous concerns were addressed in the revised version

    1. 3

      Though how does one know that there isn't something else? When is something completely certain? Could God be the one implementing up these thoughts? O has denied the senses and body but that doesn't mean that i don't exist. Even if there is a great being deceiving me constantly they cannot make me non-existent. I think therefore i exist (or the more common quote, "i think therefore I am

    Annotators

    1. ’O ̄ lelo is “language, speech, word, utterance; to speak, say,tell; oral communication.2 ’O ̄ lelo is the root of our word for stories oralor written,

      very important this ties storytelling directly with cultural expression, is the root of Mo'olelo

  5. inst-fs-iad-prod.inscloudgate.net inst-fs-iad-prod.inscloudgate.net
    1. o my own surprise, I raised my hand the next day. Ms. Hill smiled. She appreciated my remarks and agreed with many of my comments. Some of the students also remarked that they shared my perspective. After class Ms. Hill gave me a nod and wink and said, "Good job." I continued to participate in class and received Bs and B+s on my written assignments.

      Teacher - student interactions and active engagement with feedback could greatly encourage students to participate in class. Positive feedback from teachers can also boost students' confidence for sharing their perspectives and opinions in class.

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the previous reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      This study investigated the phosphoryl transfer mechanism of the enzyme adenylate kinase, using SCC-DFTB quantum mechanical/molecular mechanical (QM/MM) simulations, along with kinetic studies exploring the temperature and pH dependence of the enzyme's activity, as well as the effects of various active site mutants. Based on a broad free energy landscape near the transition state, the authors proposed the existence of wide transition states (TS), characterized by the transferring phosphoryl group adopting a meta-phosphate-like geometry with asymmetric bond distances to the nucleophilic and leaving oxygens. In support of this finding, kinetic experiments were conducted with Ca2+ ions at different temperatures and pH, which revealed a reduced entropy of activation and unique pH-dependence of the catalyzed reaction.

      Strengths:

      A combined application of simulation and experiments is a strength.

      Weaknesses:

      The conclusion that the enzyme-catalyzed reaction involves a wide transition state is not sufficiently clarified with some concerns about the determined free energy profiles compared to the experimental estimate. (See Recommendations for the authors.)

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      The authors report results of QM/MM simulations and kinetic measurements for the phosphoryl-transfer step in adenylate kinase. The main assertion of the paper is that a wide transition state ensemble is a key concept in enzyme catalysis as a strategy to circumvent entropic barriers. This assertion is based on observation of a "structurally wide" set of energetically equivalent configurations that lie along the reaction coordinate in QM/MM simulations, together with kinetic measurements that suggest a decrease of the entropy of activation.

      Thank you for your feedback. The reviewer’s questions are answered below, hoping to clarify them.

      Strengths:

      The study combines theoretical calculations and supporting experiments.

      Weaknesses:

      The current paper hypothesizes a "wide" transition state ensemble as a catalytic strategy and key concept in enzyme catalysis. Overall, it is not clear the degree to which this hypothesis is fully supported by the data. The reasons are as follows:

      (1) Enzyme catalysis reflects a rate enhancement with respect to a baseline reaction in solution. In order to assert that something is part of a catalytic strategy of an enzyme, it would be necessary to demonstrate from simulations that the activation entropy for the baseline reaction is indeed greater and the transition state ensemble less "wide". Alternatively stated, when indicating there is a "wide transition state ensemble" for the enzyme system - one needs to indicate that is with respect to the non-enzymatic reaction. However, these simulations were not performed and the comparisons not demonstrated. The authors state "This chemical step would take about 7000 years without the enzyme" making it impossible to measure; nonetheless, the simulations of the nonenzymatic reaction would be fairly straight forward to perform in order to demonstrate this key concept that is central to the paper. Rather, the authors examine the reaction in the absence of a catalytically important Mg ion.

      Thank you for your thoughtful feedback. QM/MM calculations for uncatalysed phosphoryl-transfer reactions involving either diphosphates or triphosphates have been well documented in the literature showing narrow and symmetric TSE (Klan et al., JACS 2006, 128 (47) 15310-15323; Cui Wang et al., JPCB 2015, 119(9), 3720-3726). We added these references to the revised manuscript.

      (2) The observation of a "wide conformational ensemble" is not a quantitative measure of entropy. In order to make a meaningful computational prediction of the entropic contribution to the activation free energy, one would need to perform free energy simulations over a range of temperatures (for the enzymatic and non-enzymatic systems). Such simulations were not performed, and the entropy of activation was thus not quantified by the computational predictions. The authors instead use a wider TS ensemble as a proxy for larger entropy, and miss an opportunity to compare directly to the experimental measurements.

      Although we share the reviewers desire to quantify entropies from QM/MM simulations, we agree with discussions in the literature that calculating quantitative entropies from performing QM/MM simulations at different temperatures is not reliable. We therefore felt strongly to stay with a qualitative assessment of entropy differences from our simulations. As the reviewer highlighted, our study combines theoretical calculations and experiments. The entropy of activation is well estimated by the experiments from the experimental accuracy of these temperature-dependent changes in rate constants for the chemical step.  Our computational results agree well with the experimental results and were further validated in 2 rounds of reviews/revisions by additional different free energy calculation methods (MSMD and US), plus committor analysis.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      By conducting QM/MM free energy simulations, the authors aimed to characterize the mechanism and transition state for the phosphoryl transfer in adenylate kinase. The qualitative reliability of the QM/MM results has been supported by several interesting experimental kinetic studies. However, the interpretation of the QM/MM results is not well supported by the current calculations.

      Thank you for your feedback. We appreciate the recognition of our experimental validation but understand your concern about the interpretation of our QM/MM results. To address this, we answer the specific questions below and added clearer explanations of the computational approach, including its limitations. We also better aligned the QM/MM results with both experimental data and theoretical expectations to strengthen the overall interpretation.

      Strengths:

      The QM/MM free energy simulations have been carefully conducted. The accuracy of the semi-empirical QM/MM results was further supported by DFT/MM calculations, as well as qualitatively by several experimental studies.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) One key issue is the definition of the transition state ensemble. The authors appear to define this by simply considering structures that lie within a given free energy range from the barrier. However, this is not the rigorous definition of transition state ensemble, which should be defined in terms of committor distribution. This is not simply an issue of semantics, since only a rigorous definition allows a fair comparison between different cases - such as the transition state in an enzyme vs in solution, or with and without the metal ion. For a chemical reaction in a complex environment, it is also possible that many other variables (in addition to the breaking and forming P-O bonds) should be considered when one measures the diversity in the conformational ensemble.

      In the revised manuscript, the authors included committor analysis. However, the discussion of the result is very brief. In particular, if we use the common definition of the transition state ensemble (TSE) as those featuring the committor around 0.5, the reaction coordinate of the TSE would span a much narrower range than those listed in Table 1. This point should be carefully addressed.

      The reviewer is right, the TSE is rigorously defined in terms of the committor distribution. We actually calculated the committor distribution for the reaction with and without Mg. We now added the figure showing the committor distribution for both reactions (Figure 3 – supplement 9). We did not include these results before because the committor distribution histogram would need more points to have a more accurate shape, requiring a high computational cost. We followed the reviewer’s suggestion and updated table 1 with the values from the committor distribution analysis.

      (2) While the experimental observation that the activation entropy differs significantly with and without the Ca2+ ion is interesting, it is difficult to connect this result with the "wide" transition state ensemble observed in the QM/MM simulations so far. Even without considering the definition of the transition state ensemble mentioned above, it is unlikely that a broader range of P-O distances would explain the substantial difference in the activation entropy measured in the experiment. Since the difference is sufficiently large, it should be possible to compute the value by repeating the free energy simulations at different temperatures, which would lead to a much more direct evaluation of the QM/MM model/result and the interpretation.

      See our answer above about this point.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Major comments:

      One of the remaining issues with this revision is the assertion of the wide transition states in the presence of Mg2+ ion. When discussing the transition state of phosphoryl transfer reactions, it is important to consider their nature as involving both the cleavage and formation of P-O bonds. While these two events can occur in concert with a single transition state, many studies have shown that one event often precedes the other. Sometimes, there is a slight drop in free energy between the two events, forming a transient intermediate. However, due to its very short lifetime, this intermediate state may not be detectable experimentally. Depending on the sequence of events, the transition state or the transient intermediate may exhibit characteristics of a metaphosphate or phosphorane-like species. Based on the DFTB simulation results presented in the paper, it appears that the reaction forms a metaphosphate-like transition state. In the present reaction, since the two oxygen atoms involved in the reaction are very good leaving groups with similar reactivity, it is not surprising to observe the two events near the TS with very similar relative free energies, and therefore, the free energy profile can be very flat near the TS. This is consistent with the statement that "the transferring phosphate can be much closer to the leaving oxygen than the attacking oxygen and vice versa" on page 9. In my opinion, however, this should not be considered as a wide transition state but rather a consequence of the two events occurring very close to each other along the reaction coordinate. This distinction can be considered a semantic issue, and as long as the authors clearly discuss this issue and clarify the meaning of the TS ensemble, the reviewer is okay with that. In its current form, the statement of the wide TS ensemble may lead to a misleading interpretation of the reaction under study.

      An intermediate is clearly defined as a minimum in the free energy landscape. We see no evidence in any of your simulations of a minimum flanked by two transitions states, nor do we see any evidence in our NMR relaxation data or crystal structure ensemble refinement. We report our experimental and computational results, so that the reader can directly interpret the free energy landscapes for this system, avoiding semantics due to language ambiguity.

      Second, based on the kinetic study, the free energy of the catalytic reaction is approximately zero. The authors suggest that at pH near 7, the ADP exists as a roughly

      50-50 mixture between the singly protonated and fully charged states and consequently, the reaction free energies between the two scenarios cancel each other out. However, this argument is not correct. If [ADP(H)]/[ADP] is close to 1, the two reaction free energies, one with +6 kcal/mol and the other with -6 kcal/mol, imply that the protonation of the products (either ATP or AMP) requires ~12 kcal/mol (i.e., 9 pKa unit shift). Given the symmetric nature of the reaction and the similar pKa values between ATP, ADP versus AMP, such a large shift in the pKa of the product state is not expected, and for the calculated results to be accurate, the pKa shifts in the reactant state versus the product state must be opposite, with a total relative shift of 9 pKa units. This is difficult to understand given the nature of the reaction catalyzed by the adenylate kinase enzyme.

      We thank this reviewer for this question, which made us realize that we cannot compare the free energies of our QM/MD simulations with the experimentally determined ADP and ATP/AMP ratios. In the experiment we determine the entire pool of ADP and AMP/ATP bound to the enzyme, but could not distinguish if the protonated and or nonprotonated states are contributing to the measured observed rate constants (Kerns, S. et al.,(2015). In the present study, we now discovered that the nonprotonated forms have a lower activation barrier, but the protonated states also contribute to the overall reaction. Therefore, we removed this paragraph from our discussion.

      Minor comments:

      The difference in the free energy barrier determined by the MSMD and umbrella sampling is not negligible. Considering that umbrella sampling is commonly used in this type of research, the MSMD method appears to overestimate the barrier by more than 3 kcal/mol. Would the TS geometries obtained by umbrella sampling be comparable to those obtained by MSMD?

      This is an excellent suggestion, since the umbrella sampling is the more accurate method. The TSE from both methods are indeed comparable, and we added new figure panels about this results to Fig. 4.

      Figure 5 shows that the enthalpy of activation is similar for reactions with and without Ca2+. Do the authors expect the enthalpy of activation to decrease when Ca2+ is replaced by Mg2+ without a significant change in the entropy of activation? Any justification?

      In (Kerns, S. et al.,(2015) we had experimentally determined the dependence of the observed rate of the P-transfer on the nature of the divalent metal, with Mg2+ being by far superior to the other divalent metals. We proposed that this majorly is an effect on the enthalpy of activation, that other divalent metals provide poor orbital overlap, in agreement with published work on P-transfer reactions that show selectivity for a specific metal.

      Please provide proper citations for SHAKE and WHAM.

      The citations were added.

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      The authors did not really address in the revised manuscript the main points of the previous review, which included examination of non-enzymatic reaction (via simulation, not measurement) and quantification of the connection between the reported wide TS ensemble and the increase in entropy (by additional simulations). The authors should also add reference to the AM1/d-PhoT model of Nam et al. which is now discussed.

      QM/MM calculations for uncatazlysed phosphoryl-transfer reactions involving either diphosphates or triphosphates have been well documented in the literature showing narrow and symmetric TSE (Klahn et al., JACS 2006, 128 (47) 15310-15323; Cui Wang et al., JPCB 2015, 119(9), 3720-3726). We added these references to the revised manuscript.

      The reference to AM1/d-PhoT model was added.

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      In the revised ms, the authors indeed addressed many of the points raised in the previous round of review. In addition to the issue of TSE and committor mentioned above, another point that needs to be carefully explained is the very significant difference between umbrella sampling results and those in Fig. 1C - especially for the case without Mg2+ - the difference of more than 20 kcal/mol is not something that can be ignored at a qualitative level.

      We thank the reviewer for pointing out that the difference in free energy profiles between umbrella sampling (US) and MSMD, especially in the case without Mg<sup>2</sup>+ needs to be addressed.

      We believe that the key reason for this difference lies in the methodological approaches of these techniques.

      Umbrella sampling is an equilibrium enhanced sampling method, that allows for a balanced and thorough exploration of the free energy landscape, the MSMD is a non-equilibrium method and estimation depends of the averaging scheme used and the number of trajectories. In the present work, the free energy was estimated using an exponential average. This averaging scheme has a slow convergence, small variance and may overestimate the free energy barrier, specially if the barrier as seen in the absence of Mg is quite high. This factor could explain the significant difference between umbrella sampling and MSMD combined with Jarzynski’s equality.

      We have added new panels to Fig. 4 to compare the TSE from the more accurate umbrella sampling to the MSMD simulations, buttressing the validity of our original findings. We revised the manuscript discuss the differences between the MSMD and the umbrella sampling free energy profiles.

    1. Author response:

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public review):

      This a comprehensive study that sheds light on how Wag31 functions and localises in mycobacterial cells. A clear link to interactions with CL is shown using a combination of microscopy in combination with fusion fluorescent constructs, and lipid specific dyes. Furthermore, studies using mutant versions of Wag31 shed light on the functionalities of each domain in the protein. My concerns/suggestions for the manuscript are minor:

      (1) Ln 130. A better clarification/discussion is required here. It is clear that both depletion and overexpression have an effect on levels of various lipids, but subsequent descriptions show that they affect different classes of lipids.

      We thank the reviewer for the comments. We will improve Ln130 in the manuscript. The lipid classes that get impacted by the depletion of Wag31 vs overexpression are different. Wag31 is an adaptor protein that interacts with proteins of the ACCase complex (Meniche et al., 2014; Xu et al., 2014) that synthesize fatty acid precursors and regulate their activity (Habibi Arejan et al., 2022).

      The varied response to lipid homeostasis could be attributed to a change in the stoichiometry of these interactions with Wag31. While Wag31 depletion would prevent such interactions from occurring and might affect lipid synthesis that directly depends on Wag31-protein partner interactions, its overexpression would lead to promiscuous interactions and a change in the stoichiometry of native interactions, ultimately modulating lipid synthesis pathways.

      (2) The pulldown assays results are interesting, but links are tentative.

      The interactome of Wag31 was identified through the immunoprecipitation of Flag-tagged Wag31 complemented at an integrative locus in Wag31 mutant background to avoid overexpression artifacts. We used Msm::gfp expressing an integrative copy (at L5 locus) of FLAG-GFP as a control to subtract non-specific interactions. The experiment was performed in biological triplicates, and interactors that appeared in all replicates were selected for further analysis. Although we identified more than 100 interactors of Wag31, we analyzed only the top 25 hits, with a PSM cut-off ≥18 and unique peptides≥5. Additionally, two of Wag31's established interactors, AccD5 and Rne, were among the top five hits, thus validating our data.

      Though we agree that the interactions can either be direct or through a third partner, the fact that we obtained known interactors of Wag31 makes us believe these interactions are genuine. Moreover, we performed pulldown experiments for validation by mixing E. coli lysates expressing His-Wag31 full-length or truncated protein with M. smegmatis lysates expressing FLAG-tagged interacting proteins. The wash conditions used were quite stringent for these pull-down assays—the wash buffer contained 1% Triton X100, eliminating all non-specific and indirect interactions.  However, we agree that we cannot conclusively state that the interactions are direct without purifying the proteins and performing the experiment. We will describe this caveat in the revised manuscript. 

      (3) The authors may perhaps like to rephrase claims of effects lipid homeostasis, as my understanding is that lipid localisation rather than catabolism/breakdown is affected.

      In this manuscript, we are trying to convey that Wag31 is a spatiotemporal regulator of lipid metabolism. It is a peripheral protein that is hooked to the membrane via Cardiolipin and forms a scaffold at the poles, which helps localize several enzymes involved in lipid metabolism.

      Homeostasis is the process by which an organism maintains a steady-state of balance and stability in response to changes.  Depletion of Wag31 not only results in delocalisation of lipids in intracellular lipid inclusions but also leads to changes in the levels of various lipid classes. Advancement in the field of spatial biology underscores the importance of native localization of various biological molecules crucial for maintaining a steady-cell of the cell. Hence, we have used the word “homeostasis” to describe both the changes observed in lipid metabolism.

      Reviewer #2 (Public review):

      Summary

      Kapoor et. al. investigated the role of the mycobacterial protein Wag31 in lipid and peptidoglycan synthesis and sought to delineate the role of the N- and C- terminal domains of Wag31. They demonstrated that modulating Wag31 levels influences lipid homeostasis in M. smegmatis and cardiolipin (CL) localisation in cells. Wag31 was found to preferentially bind CL-containing liposomes, and deleting the N-terminus of the protein significantly decreased this interaction. Novel interactions between Wag31 and proteins involved in lipid metabolism and cell wall synthesis were identified, suggesting that Wag31 recruits proteins to the intracellular membrane domain by direct interaction.

      Strengths:

      (1) The importance of Wag31 in maintaining lipid homeostasis is supported by several lines of evidence.

      (2) The interaction between Wag31 and cardiolipin, and the role of the N-terminus in this interaction was convincingly demonstrated.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) MS experiments provide some evidence for novel protein-protein interactions. However, the pull-down experiments lack a valid negative control.

      We thank the reviewer for the comments. We will include a valid negative control in the experiment. We would choose ~2 mycobacterial proteins that are not a part of our interactome study and perform a similar pull-down experiment with them and a positive control (known interactor of Wag31).

      (2) The role of the N-terminus in the protein-protein interaction has not been ruled out.

      Previously, we attempted to express the N-terminal (1-60 aa) and the C-terminal (60-212 aa) proteins in various mycobacterial shuttle vectors to perform MS/MS experiments. Despite numerous efforts, neither was expressed with the N/C-terminal FLAG tag nor without any tag in episomal or integrative vectors due to the instability of the protein. Eventually, we successfully expressed the C-terminal Wag31 with an N and C-terminal hexa-His tag. However, this expression was not sufficient or stable enough for us to perform Ni affinity pull-down experiments for mass spectrometry.  The N-terminal of Wag31 could not be expressed in M. smegmatis even with N and C-terminal Hexa-His tags.

      To rule out the role of the N-terminal in mediating protein-protein interactions, we plan to attempt to express N-terminal of Wag31with N and C-terminal hexa-His tag in E. coli. If this clone successfully expresses in E. coli, we will perform pull-down experiments as described in Figure 7.

      Reviewer #3 (Public review):

      Summary:

      This manuscript describes the characterization of mycobacterial cytoskeleton protein Wag31, examining its role in orchestrating protein-lipid and protein-protein interactions essential for mycobacterial survival. The most significant finding is that Wag31, which directs polar elongation and maintains the intracellular membrane domain, was revealed to have membrane tethering capabilities.

      Strengths:

      The authors provided a detailed analysis of Wag31 domain architecture, revealing distinct functional roles: the N-terminal domain facilitates lipid binding and membrane tethering, while the C-terminal domain mediates protein-protein interactions. Overall, this study offers a robust and new understanding of Wag31 function.

      Weaknesses:

      The following major concerns should be addressed.

      • Authors use 10-N-Nonyl-acridine orange (NAO) as a marker for cardiolipin localization. However, given that NAO is known to bind to various anionic phospholipids, how do the authors know that what they are seeing is specifically visualizing cardiolipin and not a different anionic phospholipid? For example, phosphatidylinositol is another abundant anionic phospholipid in mycobacterial plasma membrane.

      We thank the reviewer for the comments. Despite its promiscuous binding to other anionic phospholipids, 10-N-Nonyl-acridine orange is widely used to stain Cardiolipin and determine its localisation in bacterial cells and mitochondria of eukaryotes (Garcia Fernandez et al., 2004; Mileykovskaya & Dowhan, 2000; Renner & Weibel, 2011).  This is because it has a stronger affinity for Cardiolipin than other anionic phospholipids with the affinity constant being 2 × 10<sup>6</sup> M<sup>−1</sup> for Cardiolipin association and 7 × 10<sup>4</sup> M<sup>−1</sup> for that of phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylinositol association (Petit et al., 1992). Additionally, there is not yet another stain available for detecting Cardiolipin. Our protein-lipid binding assays suggest that Wag31 preferentially binds to Cardiolipin over other anionic phospholipids (Fig. 4b), hence it is likely that the majority of redistribution of NAO fluorescence that we observe might be contributed by Cardiolipin mislocalization due to altered Wag31 levels, with smaller degree of NAO redistribution intensity coming indirectly from other anionic phospholipids displaced from the membrane due to the loss of membrane integrity and cell shape changes due to Wag31.

      • Authors' data show that the N-terminal region of Wag31 is important for membrane tethering. The authors' data also show that the N-terminal region is important for sustaining mycobacterial morphology. However, the authors' statement in Line 256 "These results highlight the importance of tethering for sustaining mycobacterial morphology and survival" requires additional proof. It remains possible that the N-terminal region has another unknown activity, and this yet-unknown activity rather than the membrane tethering activity drives the morphological maintenance. Similarly, the N-terminal region is important for lipid homeostasis, but the statement in Line 270, "the maintenance of lipid homeostasis by Wag31 is a consequence of its tethering activity" requires additional proof. The authors should tone down these overstatements or provide additional data to support their claims.

      We agree with the reviewer that there exists a possibility for another function of the N-terminal that may contribute to sustaining mycobacterial physiology and survival. We would revise our statements in the paper to accurately reflect the data. Results shown suggest that the tethering activity of the N-terminal region may contribute to mycobacterial morphology and survival. However, additional functions of this region can’t be ruled out. Similarly, the maintenance of lipid homeostasis by Wag31 may be associated with its tethering activity, although other mechanisms could also contribute to this process. 

      • Authors suggest that Wag31 acts as a scaffold for the IMD (Fig. 8). However, Meniche et. al. has shown that MurG as well as GlfT2, two well-characterized IMD proteins, do not colocalize with Wag31 (DivIVA) (https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1402158111). IMD proteins are always slightly subpolar while Wag31 is located to the tip of the cell. Therefore, the authors' biochemical data cannot be easily reconciled with microscopic observations in the literature. This raises a question regarding the validity of protein-protein interaction shown in Figure 7. Since this pull-down assay was conducted by mixing E. coli lysate expressing Wag31 and Msm lysate expression Wag31 interactors like MurG, it is possible that the interactions are not direct. Authors should interpret their data more cautiously. If authors cannot provide additional data and sufficient justifications, they should avoid proposing a confusing model like Figure 8 that contradicts published observations.

      In the literature, MurG and GlfT2 have been shown to have polar localization (Freeman et al., 2023; Hayashi et al., 2016; Kado et al., 2023), and two groups have shown slightly sub-polar localization of MurG (García-Heredia et al., 2021; Meniche et al., 2014). Additionally, (Freeman et al., 2023) they showed SepIVA to be a spatio-temporal regulator of MurG. MS/MS analysis of Wag31 immunoprecipitation data yielded both MurG and SepIVA to be interactors of Wag31 (Fig. 3). Given Wag31 also displays polar localisation, it likely associates with the polar MurG. However, since a sub-polar localization of MurG has also been reported, it is possible that they do not interact directly, and another protein mediates their interaction. We will modify the model proposed in Fig. 8 based on the above.

      We agree that for validation of interaction, we performed pulldown experiments by mixing E. coli lysates expressing His-Wag31 full-length or truncated protein with M. smegmatis lysates expressing FLAG-tagged interacting proteins. The wash conditions used were quite stringent for these pull-down assays—the wash buffer containing 1% Triton X100, which eliminates all non-specific and indirect interactions.  However, we agree that we cannot conclusively state that the interactions are direct without purifying the proteins and performing the experiment. We will describe this caveat in the revised manuscript and propose a model reflecting our results.

      References:

      Freeman, A. H., Tembiwa, K., Brenner, J. R., Chase, M. R., Fortune, S. M., Morita, Y. S., & Boutte, C. C. (2023). Arginine methylation sites on SepIVA help balance elongation and septation in Mycobacterium smegmatis. Mol Microbiol, 119(2), 208-223. https://doi.org/10.1111/mmi.15006

      Garcia Fernandez, M. I., Ceccarelli, D., & Muscatello, U. (2004). Use of the fluorescent dye 10-N-nonyl acridine orange in quantitative and location assays of cardiolipin: a study on different experimental models. Anal Biochem, 328(2), 174-180. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ab.2004.01.020

      García-Heredia, A., Kado, T., Sein, C. E., Puffal, J., Osman, S. H., Judd, J., Gray, T. A., Morita, Y. S., & Siegrist, M. S. (2021). Membrane-partitioned cell wall synthesis in mycobacteria. eLife, 10. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.60263

      Habibi Arejan, N., Ensinck, D., Diacovich, L., Patel, P. B., Quintanilla, S. Y., Emami Saleh, A., Gramajo, H., & Boutte, C. C. (2022). Polar protein Wag31 both activates and inhibits cell wall metabolism at the poles and septum. Front Microbiol, 13, 1085918. https://doi.org/10.3389/fmicb.2022.1085918

      Hayashi, J. M., Luo, C. Y., Mayfield, J. A., Hsu, T., Fukuda, T., Walfield, A. L., Giffen, S. R., Leszyk, J. D., Baer, C. E., Bennion, O. T., Madduri, A., Shaffer, S. A., Aldridge, B. B., Sassetti, C. M., Sandler, S. J., Kinoshita, T., Moody, D. B., & Morita, Y. S. (2016). Spatially distinct and metabolically active membrane domain in mycobacteria. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 113(19), 5400-5405. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1525165113

      Kado, T., Akbary, Z., Motooka, D., Sparks, I. L., Melzer, E. S., Nakamura, S., Rojas, E. R., Morita, Y. S., & Siegrist, M. S. (2023). A cell wall synthase accelerates plasma membrane partitioning in mycobacteria. eLife, 12, e81924. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.81924

      Meniche, X., Otten, R., Siegrist, M. S., Baer, C. E., Murphy, K. C., Bertozzi, C. R., & Sassetti, C. M. (2014). Subpolar addition of new cell wall is directed by DivIVA in mycobacteria. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 111(31), E3243-3251. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1402158111

      Mileykovskaya, E., & Dowhan, W. (2000). Visualization of phospholipid domains in Escherichia coli by using the cardiolipin-specific fluorescent dye 10-N-nonyl acridine orange. J Bacteriol, 182(4), 1172-1175. https://doi.org/10.1128/JB.182.4.1172-1175.2000

      Petit, J. M., Maftah, A., Ratinaud, M. H., & Julien, R. (1992). 10N-nonyl acridine orange interacts with cardiolipin and allows the quantification of this phospholipid in isolated mitochondria. Eur J Biochem, 209(1), 267-273. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1432-1033.1992.tb17285.x

      Renner, L. D., & Weibel, D. B. (2011). Cardiolipin microdomains localize to negatively curved regions of Escherichia coli membranes. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 108(15), 6264-6269. https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1015757108

      Xu, W. X., Zhang, L., Mai, J. T., Peng, R. C., Yang, E. Z., Peng, C., & Wang, H. H. (2014). The Wag31 protein interacts with AccA3 and coordinates cell wall lipid permeability and lipophilic drug resistance in Mycobacterium smegmatis. Biochem Biophys Res Commun, 448(3), 255-260. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bbrc.2014.04.116

    1. 三軒茶屋ピザダイニングバー

      貸し切りを取りたい →コースを作る →コース予約はライト以上なので プランを上げましょう

      めちゃくちゃテコ入れしましょう、お店 →BPだと 春の乾杯キャンペーン

      ウェディングのプラン どうせ露出するならBP→無料で参加できる

      二か月半額キャンペーンもやってるのでBPの提案

      カメラマンのフック

      MEO対策

      GBP →4.2あるのに口コミの返信一度もない →ここ整備すると売り上げに直結するのでやりましょう

      ぐるなびSP→GBPかける めんどくさがり屋 媒体やってない

      o

    1. o begin use a 125 mL Erlenmeyer flask and fill it with about 50 mL of 2% sugar liquid.Measure a 50 mL beaker by using a balance, record value. Then using that 50 mL beaker and a10 mL volumetric pipette plus pipette filler, fill the 10 mL volumetric pipette and filler to 10.00 mLof 2% sugar. Put the liquid in the volumetric pipette into the 50mL beaker that was previouslymeasured. Next measure and record the mass of the beaker using the balance. This processwas repeated 2 more times for a total of 3 trials Then using a cranberry juice using the samesteps and doing a total of 3 trials. Once more do the same steps using root beer for a total of 3trials

      need to have a passive tone when writting methods

    1. Amem, porém, os seus inimigos, façam-lhes o bem e emprestem a eles, sem esperar receber nada de volta. Então, a recompensa que terão será grande e vocês serão filhos do Altíssimo, porque ele é bondoso para com os ingratos e maus.

      Lucas 6.35 - O amor aos inimigos

      Jesus se refere a Deus como: - Altíssimo

    2. Bem-aventurados serão vocês quando os odiarem,expulsarem e insultarem,e eliminarem o nome de vocês, como sendo mau,por causa do Filho do homem.

      Lucas 6.22 - Bençãos e ais

      Jesus diz aos discípulos que eles serão bem aventurados quando forem odiados, expulsos, insultados ou tratados com desprezo por causa do: - Filho do homem (Jesus)

    1. Vida por meio do Filho 16 Então os judeus passaram a perseguir Jesus, porque ele estava fazendo essas coisas no sábado. 17 Disse-lhes Jesus: “Meu Pai continua trabalhando até hoje, e eu também estou trabalhando”. 18 Por essa razão, os judeus mais ainda queriam matá-lo, pois não somente estava violando o sábado, mas também estava dizendo que Deus era seu próprio Pai, igualando-se a Deus. 19 Jesus lhes deu esta resposta: “Eu digo verdadeiramente que o Filho não pode fazer nada de si mesmo; só pode fazer o que vê o Pai fazer, porque o que o Pai faz o Filho também faz. 20 Pois o Pai ama ao Filho e lhe mostra tudo o que faz. Sim, para admiração de vocês, ele lhe mostrará obras ainda maiores do que estas. 21 Pois, da mesma forma que o Pai ressuscita os mortos e lhes dá vida, o Filho também dá vida a quem ele quer. 22 Além disso, o Pai a ninguém julga, mas confiou todo julgamento ao Filho, 23 para que todos honrem o Filho como honram o Pai. Aquele que não honra o Filho, também não honra o Pai que o enviou. 24 “Eu asseguro: Quem ouve a minha palavra e crê naquele que me enviou tem a vida eterna e não será condenado, mas já passou da morte para a vida. 25 Eu afirmo que está chegando a hora, e já chegou, em que os mortos ouvirão a voz do Filho de Deus, e aqueles que a ouvirem viverão. 26 Pois, da mesma forma como o Pai tem vida em si mesmo, ele concedeu ao Filho ter vida em si mesmo. 27 E deu-lhe autoridade para julgar, porque é o Filho do homem. 28 “Não fiquem admirados com isto, pois está chegando a hora em que todos os que estiverem nos túmulos ouvirão a sua voz 29 e sairão; os que fizeram o bem ressuscitarão para a vida, e os que fizeram o mal ressuscitarão para serem condenados. 30 Por mim mesmo, nada posso fazer; eu julgo apenas conforme ouço, e o meu julgamento é justo, pois não procuro agradar a mim mesmo, mas àquele que me enviou.

      Mateus 5.16-30 - Vida por meio do filho

      Jesus refere-se como Filho e a Deus como Pai

    1. Author response:

      The following is the authors’ response to the original reviews.

      Public Reviews:

      Reviewer #1 (Public Review):

      This study asks whether the phenomenon of crossmodal temporal recalibration, i.e. the adjustment of time perception by consistent temporal mismatches across the senses, can be explained by the concept of multisensory causal inference. In particular, they ask whether the explanation offered by causal inference better explains temporal recalibration better than a model assuming that crossmodal stimuli are always integrated, regardless of how discrepant they are.

      The study is motivated by previous work in the spatial domain, where it has been shown consistently across studies that the use of crossmodal spatial information is explained by the concept of multisensory causal inference. It is also motivated by the observation that the behavioral data showcasing temporal recalibration feature nonlinearities that, by their nature, cannot be explained by a fixed integration model (sometimes also called mandatory fusion).

      To probe this the authors implemented a sophisticated experiment that probed temporal recalibration in several sessions. They then fit the data using the two classes of candidate models and rely on model criteria to provide evidence for their conclusion. The study is sophisticated, conceptually and technically state-of-the-art, and theoretically grounded. The data clearly support the authors’ conclusions.

      I find the conceptual advance somewhat limited. First, by design, the fixed integration model cannot explain data with a nonlinear dependency on multisensory discrepancy, as already explained in many studies on spatial multisensory perception. Hence, it is not surprising that the causal inference model better fits the data.

      We have addressed this comment by including an asynchrony-contingent model, which is capable of predicting the nonlinearity of recalibration effects by employing a heuristic approximation of the causal-inference process (Fig. 3). We also updated the previous competitor model with a more reasonable asynchrony-correction model as the baseline of model comparison, which assumes recalibration aims to restore synchrony whenever the sensory measurement of SOA indicates an asynchrony. The causal-inference model outperformed both models, as indicated by model evidence (Fig. 4A). Furthermore, model predictions show that the causal-inference model more accurately captures recalibration at large SOAs at both the group (Fig. 4B) and the individual levels (Fig. S4).

      Second, and again similar to studies on spatial paradigms, the causal inference model fails to predict the behavioral data for large discrepancies. The model predictions in Figure 5 show the (expected) vanishing recalibration for large delta, while the behavioral data don’t decay to zero. Either the range of tested SOAs is too small to show that both the model and data converge to the same vanishing effect at large SOAs, or the model's formula is not the best for explaining the data. Again, the studies using spatial paradigms have the same problem, but in my view, this poses the most interesting question here.

      We included an additional simulation (Fig. 5B) to show that the causal-inference model can predict non-zero recalibration for long adapter SOAs, especially in observers with a high common-cause prior and low sensory precision. This ability to predict a non-zero recalibration effect even at large SOA, such as 0.7 s, is one key feature of the causal-inference model that distinguishes it from the asynchrony-contingent model.

      In my view there is nothing generally wrong with the study, it does extend the 'known' to another type of paradigm. However, it covers little new ground on the conceptual side.

      On that note, the small sample size of n=10 is likely not an issue, but still, it is on the very low end for this type of study.

      This study used a within-subject design, which included 3 phases each repeated in 9 sessions, totaling 13.5 hours per participant. This extensive data collection allows us to better constrain the model for each participant. Our conclusions are based on the different models’ ability to fit individual data.

      Reviewer #2 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Li et al.’s goal is to understand the mechanisms of audiovisual temporal recalibration. This is an interesting challenge that the brain readily solves in order to compensate for real-world latency differences in the time of arrival of audio/visual signals. To do this they perform a 3-phase recalibration experiment on 9 observers that involves a temporal order judgment (TOJ) pretest and posttest (in which observers are required to judge whether an auditory and visual stimulus were coincident, auditory leading or visual leading) and a conditioning phase in which participants are exposed to a sequence of AV stimuli with a particular temporal disparity. Participants are required to monitor both streams of information for infrequent oddballs, before being tested again in the TOJ, although this time there are 3 conditioning trials for every 1 TOJ trial. Like many previous studies, they demonstrate that conditioning stimuli shift the point of subjective simultaneity (pss) in the direction of the exposure sequence.

      These shifts are modest - maxing out at around -50 ms for auditory leading sequences and slightly less than that for visual leading sequences. Similar effects are observed even for the longest offsets where it seems unlikely listeners would perceive the stimuli as synchronous (and therefore under a causal inference model you might intuitively expect no recalibration, and indeed simulations in Figure 5 seem to predict exactly that which isn't what most of their human observers did). Overall I think their data contribute evidence that a causal inference step is likely included within the process of recalibration.

      Strengths:

      The manuscript performs comprehensive testing over 9 days and 100s of trials and accompanies this with mathematical models to explain the data. The paper is reasonably clearly written and the data appear to support the conclusions.

      Weaknesses:

      While I believe the data contribute evidence that a causal inference step is likely included within the process of recalibration, this to my mind is not a mechanism but might be seen more as a logical checkpoint to determine whether whatever underlying neuronal mechanism actually instantiates the recalibration should be triggered.

      We have addressed this comment by replacing the fixed-update model with an asynchrony-correction model, which assumes that the system first evaluates whether the measurement of SOA is asynchronous, thus indicating a need for recalibration (Fig. 3). If it does, it shifts the audiovisual bias by a proportion of the measured SOA. We additionally included an asynchrony-contingent model, which is capable of replicating the nonlinearity of recalibration effects by a heuristic approximation of the causal-inference process.

      Model comparisons indicate that the causal-inference model of temporal recalibration outperforms both alternative models (Fig. 4A). Furthermore, the model predictions demonstrate that the causal-inference model more accurately captures recalibration at large SOAs at both the group level (Fig. 4B) and individual level (Fig. S4).

      The authors’ causal inference model strongly predicts that there should be no recalibration for stimuli at 0.7 ms offset, yet only 3/9 participants appear to show this effect. They note that a significant difference in their design and that of others is the inclusion of longer lags, which are unlikely to originate from the same source, but don’t offer any explanation for this key difference between their data and the predictions of a causal inference model.

      We added further simulations to show that the causal-inference model can predict non-zero recalibration also for longer adapter SOAs, especially in observers with a large common-cause prior (Fig. 5A) and low sensory precision (Fig. 5B). This ability to predict a non-zero recalibration effect even at longer adapter SOAs, such as 0.7 s, is a key feature of the causal-inference model that distinguishes it from the asynchrony-contingent model.

      I’m also not completely convinced that the causal inference model isn’t ‘best’ simply because it has sufficient free parameters to capture the noise in the data. The tested models do not (I think) have equivalent complexity - the causal inference model fits best, but has more parameters with which to fit the data. Moreover, while it fits ‘best’, is it a good model? Figure S6 is useful in this regard but is not completely clear - are the red dots the actual data or the causal inference prediction? This suggests that it does fit the data very well, but is this based on predicting held-out data, or is it just that by having more parameters it can better capture the noise? Similarly, S7 is a potentially useful figure but it's not clear what is data and what are model predictions (what are the differences between each row for each participant; are they two different models or pre-test post-test or data and model prediction?!).

      I'm not an expert on the implementation of such models but my reading of the supplemental methods is that the model is fit using all the data rather than fit and tested on held-out data. This seems problematic.

      We recognize the risk of overfitting with the causal-inference model. We now rely on Bayesian model comparisons, which use model evidence for model selection. This method automatically incorporates a penalty for model complexity through the marginalization over the parameter space (MacKay, 2003).

      Our design is not suitable for cross-validation because the model-fitting process is computationally intensive and time-consuming. Each fit of the causal-inference model takes approximately 30 hours, and multiple fits with different initial starting points are required to rule out that the parameter estimates correspond to local minima.

      I would have liked to have seen more individual participant data (which is currently in the supplemental materials, albeit in a not very clear manner as discussed above).

      We have revised Supplementary Figures S4-S6 to show additional model predictions of the recalibration effect for individual participants, and participants’ temporal-order judgments are now shown in Supplement Figure S7. These figures confirm the better performance of the causal-inference model.

      The way that S3 is described in the text (line 141) makes it sound like everyone was in the same direction, however, it is clear that 2 /9 listeners show the opposite pattern, and 2 have confidence intervals close to zero (albeit on the -ve side).

      We have revised the text to clarify that the asymmetry occurs in both directions and is idiosyncratic (lines 168-171). We summarized the distribution of the individual asymmetries of the recalibration effect across visual-leading and auditory-leading adapter SOAs in Supplementary Figure S2.

      Reviewer #3 (Public Review):

      Summary:

      Li et al. describe an audiovisual temporal recalibration experiment in which participants perform baseline sessions of ternary order judgments about audiovisual stimulus pairs with various stimulus-onset asynchronies (SOAs). These are followed by adaptation at several adapting SOAs (each on a different day), followed by post-adaptation sessions to assess changes in psychometric functions. The key novelty is the formal specification and application/fit of a causal-inference model for the perception of relative timing, providing simulated predictions for the complete set of psychometric functions both pre and post-adaptation.

      Strengths:

      (1) Formal models are preferable to vague theoretical statements about a process, and prior to this work, certain accounts of temporal recalibration (specifically those that do not rely on a population code) had only qualitative theoretical statements to explain how/why the magnitude of recalibration changes non-linearly with the stimulus-onset asynchrony of the adapter.

      (2) The experiment is appropriate, the methods are well described, and the average model prediction is a fairly good match to the average data (Figure 4). Conclusions may be overstated slightly, but seem to be essentially supported by the data and modelling.

      (3) The work should be impactful. There seems a good chance that this will become the go-to modelling framework for those exploring non-population-code accounts of temporal recalibration (or comparing them with population-code accounts).

      (4) A key issue for the generality of the model, specifically in terms of recalibration asymmetries reported by other authors that are inconsistent with those reported here, is properly acknowledged in the discussion.

      Weaknesses:

      (1) The evidence for the model comes in two forms. First, two trends in the data (non-linearity and asymmetry) are illustrated, and the model is shown to be capable of delivering patterns like these. Second, the model is compared, via AIC, to three other models. However, the main comparison models are clearly not going to fit the data very well, so the fact that the new model fits better does not seem all that compelling. I would suggest that the authors consider a comparison with the atheoretical model they use to first illustrate the data (in Figure 2). This model fits all sessions but with complete freedom to move the bias around (whereas the new model constrains the way bias changes via a principled account). The atheoretical model will obviously fit better, but will have many more free parameters, so a comparison via AIC/BIC or similar should be informative

      In the revised manuscript, we switched from AIC to Bayesian model selection, which approximates and compares model evidence. This method incorporates a strong penalty for model complexity through marginalization over the parameter space (MacKay, 2003).

      We have addressed this comment by updating the former competitor model into a more reasonable version that induces recalibration only for some measured SOAs and by including another (asynchrony-contingent) model that is capable of predicting the nonlinearity and asymmetry of recalibration (Fig. 3) while heuristically approximating the causal inference computations. The causal-inference model outperformed the asynchrony-contingent model, as indicated by model evidence (Fig. 4A). Furthermore, model predictions show that the causal-inference model more accurately captures recalibration at large SOAs at both the group (Fig. 4B) and the individual level (Fig. S4).

      (2) It does not appear that some key comparisons have been subjected to appropriate inferential statistical tests. Specifically, lines 196-207 - presumably this is the mean (and SD or SE) change in AIC between models across the group of 9 observers. So are these differences actually significant, for example via t-test?

      We statistically compared the models using Bayes factors (Fig. 4A). The model evidence for each model was approximated using Variational Bayesian Monte Carlo. Bayes factors provided strong evidence in support of the causal-inference model relative to the other models.

      (3) The manuscript tends to gloss over the population-code account of temporal recalibration, which can already provide a quantitative account of how the magnitude of recalibration varies with adapter SOA. This could be better acknowledged, and the features a population code may struggle with (asymmetry?) are considered.

      We simulated a population-code model to examine its prediction of the recalibration effect for different adapter SOAs (lines 380–388, Supplement Section 8). The population-code model can predict the nonlinearity of recalibration, i.e., a decreasing recalibration effect as the adapter SOA increases. However, to capture the asymmetry of recalibration effects across auditory-leading and visual-leading adapter stimuli, we would need to assume that the auditory-leading and visual-leading SOAs are represented by neural populations with unequal tuning curves.

      (4) The engagement with relevant past literature seems a little thin. Firstly, papers that have applied causal inference modeling to judgments of relative timing are overlooked (see references below). There should be greater clarity regarding how the modelling here builds on or differs from these previous papers (most obviously in terms of additionally modelling the recalibration process, but other details may vary too). Secondly, there is no discussion of previous findings like that in Fujisaki et al.’s seminal work on recalibration, where the spatial overlap of the audio and visual events didn’t seem to matter (although admittedly this was an N = 2 control experiment). This kind of finding would seem relevant to a causal inference account.

      References:

      Magnotti JF, Ma WJ and Beauchamp MS (2013) Causal inference of asynchronous audiovisual speech. Front. Psychol. 4:798. doi: 10.3389/fpsyg.2013.00798

      Sato, Y. (2021). Comparing Bayesian models for simultaneity judgement with different causal assumptions. J. Math. Psychol., 102, 102521.

      We have revised the Introduction and Discussion to better situate our study within the existing literature. Specifically, we have incorporated the suggested references (lines 66–69) and provided clearer distinctions on how our modeling approach builds on or differs from previous work on causal-inference models, particularly in terms of modeling the recalibration process (lines 75–79). Additionally, we have discussed findings that might contradict the assumptions of the causal-inference model (lines 405–424).

      (5) As a minor point, the model relies on simulation, which may limit its take-up/application by others in the field.

      Upon acceptance, we will publicly share the code for all models (simulation and parameter fitting) to enable researchers to adapt and apply these models to their own data.

      (6) There is little in the way of reassurance regarding the model’s identifiability and recoverability. The authors might for example consider some parameter recovery simulations or similar.

      We conducted a model recovery for each of the six models described in the main text and confirmed that the asynchrony-contingent and causal-inference models are identifiable (Supplement Section 11). Simulations of the asynchrony-correction model were sometimes best fit by causal-inference models, because the latter behaves similarly when the prior of a common cause is set to one.

      We also conducted a parameter recovery for the winning model, the causal-inference model with modality-specific precision (Supplement Section 13).

      Key parameters, including audiovisual bias  , amount of auditory latency noise  , amount of visual latency noise  , criterion, lapse rate  showed satisfactory recovery performance. The less accurate recovery of  is likely due to a tradeoff with learning rate  .

      (7) I don't recall any statements about open science and the availability of code and data.

      Upon acceptance of the manuscript, all code (simulation and parameter fitting) and data will be made available on OSF and publicly available.

      Recommendations for the authors:

      Reviewing Editor (Recommendations For The Authors):

      In addition to the comments below, we would like to offer the following summary based on the discussion between reviewers:

      The major shortcoming of the work is that there should ideally be a bit more evidence to support the model, over and above a demonstration that it captures important trends and beats an account that was already known to be wrong. We suggest you:

      (1) Revise the figure legends (Figure 5 and Figure 6E).

      We revised all figures and figure legends.

      (2) Additionally report model differences in terms of BIC (which will favour the preferred model less under the current analysis);

      We now base the model comparison on Bayesian model selection, which approximates and compares model evidence. This method incorporates a strong penalty for model complexity through marginalization over the parameter space (MacKay, 2003).

      (3) Move to instead fitting the models multiple times in order to get leave-one-out estimates of best-fitting loglikelihood for each left-out data point (and then sum those for the comparison metric).

      Unfortunately, our design is not suitable for cross-validation methods because the model-fitting process is computationally intensive and time-consuming. Each fit of the causal-inference model takes approximately 30 hours, and multiple fits with different initial starting points are required to rule out local minima.

      (4) Offering a comparison with a more convincing model (for example an atheoretical fit with free parameters for all adapters, e.g. as suggested by Reviewer 3.

      We updated the previous competitor model and included an asynchrony-contingent model, which is capable of predicting the nonlinearity of recalibration (Fig. 3). The causal-inference model still outperformed the asynchrony-contingent model (Fig. 4A). Furthermore, model predictions show that only the causal-inference model captures non-zero recalibration effects for long adapter SOAs at both the group level (Fig. 4B) and individual level (Figure S4).

      Reviewer #1 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      A larger sample size would be better.

      This study used a within-subject design, which included 9 sessions, totaling 13.5 hours per participant. This extensive data collection allows us to better constrain the model for each participant. Our conclusions are based on the different models’ ability to fit individual data rather than on group statistics.

      It would be good to better put the study in the context of spatial ventriloquism, where similar model comparisons have been done over the last ten years and there is a large body of work to connect to.

      We now discuss our model in relation to models of cross-modal spatial recalibration in the Introduction (lines 70–78) and Discussion (lines 324–330).

      Reviewer #2 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Previous authors (e.g. Yarrow et al.,) have described latency shift and criterion change models as providing a good fit of experimental data. Did the authors attempt a criterion shift model in addition to a shift model?

      We have considered criterion-shift variants of our atheoretical recalibration models in Supplement Section 1. To summarize the results, we varied two model assumptions: 1) the use of either a Gaussian or an exponential measurement distribution, and 2) recalibration being implemented either as a shift of bias or a criterion. We fit each model variant separately to the ternary TOJ responses of all sessions. Bayesian model comparisons indicated that the bias-shift model with exponential measurement distributions best captured the data of most participants.

      Figure 4B - I'm not convinced that the modality-independent uncertainty is anything but a straw man. Models not allowed to be asymmetric do not show asymmetry? (the asymmetry index is irrelevant in the fixed update model as I understand it so it is not surprising the model is identical?).

      We included the assumption that temporal uncertainty might be modality-independent for several reasons. First, there is evidence suggesting that a central mechanism governs the precision of temporal-order judgments (Hirsh & Sherrick, 1961), indicating that precision is primarily limited by a central mechanism rather than the sensory channels themselves. Second, from a modeling perspective, it was necessary to test whether an audio-visual temporal bias alone, i.e., assuming modality-independent uncertainty, could introduce asymmetry across adapter SOAs. Additionally, most previous studies implicitly assumed symmetric likelihoods, i.e., modality-independent latency noise, by fitting cumulative Gaussians to the psychometric curves derived from 2AFC-TOJ tasks (Di Luca et al., 2009; Fujisaki et al., 2004; Harrar & Harris, 2005; Keetels & Vroomen, 2007; Navarra et al., 2005; Tanaka et al., 2011; Vatakis et al., 2007, 2008; Vroomen et al., 2004).

      Why does a zero SOA adapter shift the pss towards auditory leading? Is this a consequence of the previous day’s conditioning - it’s not clear from the methods whether all listeners had the same SOA conditioning sequence across days.

      The auditory-leading recalibration effect for an adapter SOA of zero has been consistently reported in previous studies (e.g., Fujisaki et al., 2004; Vroomen et al., 2004). This effect symbolizes the asymmetry in recalibration. This asymmetry can be explained by differences across modalities in the noisiness of the latencies (Figure 5C) in combination with audiovisual temporal bias (Figure S8).

      We added details about the order of testing to the Methods section (lines 456–457).

      Reviewer #3 (Recommendations For The Authors):

      Abstract

      “Our results indicate that human observers employ causal-inference-based percepts to recalibrate cross-modal temporal perception” Your results indicate this is plausible. However, this statement (basically repeated at the end of the intro and again in the discussion) is - in my opinion - too strong.

      We have revised the statement as suggested.

      Intro and later

      Within the wider literature on relative timing perception, the temporal order judgement (TOJ) task refers to a task with just two response options. Tasks with three response options, as employed here, are typically referred to as ternary judgments. I would suggest language consistent with the existing literature (or if not, the contrast to standard usage could be clarified).

      Ref: Ulrich, R. (1987). Threshold models of temporal-order judgments evaluated by a ternary response task. Percept. Psychophys., 42, 224-239.

      We revised the term for the task as suggested throughout the manuscript.

      Results, 2.2.2

      “However, temporal precision might not be due to the variability of arrival latency.” Indeed, although there is some recent evidence that it might be.

      Ref: Yarrow, K., Kohl, C, Segasby, T., Kaur Bansal, R., Rowe, P., & Arnold, D.H. Neural-latency noise places limits on human sensitivity to the timing of events. Cognition, 222, 105012 (2022).

      We included the reference as suggested (lines 245–248).

      Methods, 4.3.

      Should there be some information here about the order of adaptation sessions (e.g. random for each observer)?

      We added details about the order of testing to the Methods section (lines 456–457).

      Supplemental material section 1.

      Here, you test whether the changes resulting from recalibration look more like a shift of the entire psychometric function or an expansion of the psychometric function on one side (most straightforwardly compatible with a change of one decision criterion). Fine, but the way you have done this is odd, because you have introduced a further difference in the models (Gaussian vs. exponential latency noise) so that you cannot actually conclude that the trend towards a win for the bias-shift model is simply down to the bias vs. criterion difference. It could just as easily be down to the different shapes of psychometric functions that the two models can predict (with the exponential noise model permitting asymmetry in slopes). There seems to be no reason that this comparison cannot be made entirely within the exponential noise framework (by a very simple reparameterization that focuses on the two boundaries rather than the midpoint and extent of the decision window). Then, you would be focusing entirely on the question of interest. It would also equate model parameters, removing any reliance on asymptotic assumptions being met for AIC.

      We revised our exploration of atheoretical recalibration models. To summarize the results, we varied two model assumptions: 1) the use of either a Gaussian or an exponential measurement distribution, and 2) recalibration being implemented either as a shift of the cross-modal temporal bias or as a shift of the criterion. We fit each model separately to the ternary TOJ responses of all sessions. Bayesian model comparisons indicated that the bias-shift model with exponential measurement distributions best described the data of most participants.

      References

      Di Luca, M., Machulla, T.-K., & Ernst, M. O. (2009). Recalibration of multisensory simultaneity:

      cross-modal transfer coincides with a change in perceptual latency. Journal of Vision, 9(12), Article 7.

      Fujisaki, W., Shimojo, S., Kashino, M., & Nishida, S. ’ya. (2004). Recalibration of audiovisual simultaneity. Nature Neuroscience, 7(7), 773–778.

      Harrar, V., & Harris, L. R. (2005). Simultaneity constancy: detecting events with touch and vision. Experimental Brain Research. Experimentelle Hirnforschung. Experimentation Cerebrale, 166(3-4), 465–473.

      Hirsh, I. J., & Sherrick, C. E., Jr. (1961). Perceived order in different sense modalities. Journal of Experimental Psychology, 62(5), 423–432.

      Keetels, M., & Vroomen, J. (2007). No effect of auditory-visual spatial disparity on temporal recalibration. Experimental Brain Research. Experimentelle Hirnforschung. Experimentation Cerebrale, 182(4), 559–565.

      MacKay, D. J. (2003). Information theory, inference and learning algorithms.https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=201b835c3f3a3626ca07b e68cc28cf7d286bf8d5

      Navarra, J., Vatakis, A., Zampini, M., Soto-Faraco, S., Humphreys, W., & Spence, C. (2005). Exposure to asynchronous audiovisual speech extends the temporal window for audiovisual integration. Brain Research. Cognitive Brain Research, 25(2), 499–507.

      Tanaka, A., Asakawa, K., & Imai, H. (2011). The change in perceptual synchrony between auditory and visual speech after exposure to asynchronous speech. Neuroreport, 22(14), 684–688.

      Vatakis, A., Navarra, J., Soto-Faraco, S., & Spence, C. (2007). Temporal recalibration during asynchronous audiovisual speech perception. Experimental Brain Research. Experimentelle Hirnforschung. Experimentation Cerebrale, 181(1), 173–181.

      Vatakis, A., Navarra, J., Soto-Faraco, S., & Spence, C. (2008). Audiovisual temporal adaptation of speech: temporal order versus simultaneity judgments. Experimental Brain Research. Experimentelle Hirnforschung. Experimentation Cerebrale, 185(3), 521–529.

      Vroomen, J., Keetels, M., de Gelder, B., & Bertelson, P. (2004). Recalibration of temporal order perception by exposure to audio-visual asynchrony. Brain Research. Cognitive Brain Research, 22(1), 32–35.