67 Matching Annotations
  1. Apr 2021
    1. We’ve been working on a sort of SPLOT-type thing which is essentially slimmed-down backend for sites whose sole purpose is completing a writing assignment(s) for a single class. I like the TRU SPLOT approach and we’re going to use that in some use cases, but we wanted something that functions kinda like a SPLOT but begins to introduce students & fac to the real WP backend. We’re viewing it as a beginning on-ramp to later those students feel comfortable with their own WP blog with simplified options. Then onto more WP options and then maybe to full DoOO someday.

      While reading this, I'm thinking that I ought to build a SPLOT version of commentpara.de that allows a WordPress based anonymous commenting functionality for sending Webmentions.

    1. I love the idea of Webmention becoming part of core.

      One of the benefits I've seen with it is that to comment on my site, you need to post it on your own site first to send me the notification. People are much less likely to publicly spam me when they have to host the spam for themselves and associate it with their identity directly. (I'll admit that this doesn't get rid of all spam, but it does help to significantly cut back on it. To date, I don't believe there's been any Webmention spam seen in the wild.) If anything I've actually seen more civil and substantive conversations from those using Webmention. It'd be interesting to see WP Tavern support it.

      Reframing the design, UI, prevention of abuse, and set up of how comments are done on the web is certainly a laudable goal and one which could use some rebuilding from the ground up.

      (syndicated to https://wptavern.com/yes-comments-are-still-relevant-but-we-need-a-better-system?unapproved=373040&moderation-hash=b55adb70109112d26a7bff2e87c00aa9#comment-373040)

  2. Mar 2021
    1. crazypython 3 hours ago [–] How do I insert a comments section with Webmention? What HTML do I add? Preferably via dynamic JS so it's self-updating.

      Maybe this is the sort of thing you're looking for? https://github.com/PlaidWeb/webmention.js/

    2. SquareWheel 4 hours ago [–] I agree, but I think it's also worth learning from past experiences. Pingbacks do create a significant spam problem. How does Webmention.io cope with that?

      Based on experience with Pingbacks, the Webmention specification requires the sending site to have a mentioning URL on a publicly available web page. This requirement by itself cuts down significantly on spam as it increases the cost of sending it. (Pingbacks/Trackbacks didn't have this requirement so it was easy to programmatically spew spam in all directions.) In addition to this, there's no requirement to show the received Webmention, so there's less benefit to some spammers in these cases.

      Many people who do receive and display them have separate mechanisms to moderate them before display, which also tends to minimize spam. Other sites that support Webmentions also dovetail with anti-spam services like Akismet which can help filter out spam out as well.

      And this is all without anyone adding the Vouch extension to the Webmention spec.

      Keep in mind that webmention.io is just a third party service to allow sites to use and leverage Webmention notifications without needing to write any code. Many major CMSes like WordPress, Drupal, Craft, WithKnown, et al. either support the spec out of the box or with plugins/modules. Each of these can also leverage anti-spam methods they have available separately. As an example of this, the WordPress plugin has an allow list for automatically approving webmentions from sites one regularly communicates with.

      The idea of Webmentions has been around for almost a decade, and the spec has been a W3C recommendation since 2017. Only one suspected case of Webmention spam has been reported in the wild in that time. I'd conservatively estimate that with 10,000+ independent websites sending/receiving over 2 million Webmentions in the past several years, it's not a bad start. For more details, ideas, and brainstorming for your potential use-cases see also: https://indieweb.org/spam

  3. Feb 2021
    1. It would create a more layered and nuanced form of hypertext – something we're exploring in the Digital Gardening movement. We could build accumulative, conversational exchanges with people on the level of the word, sentence, and paragraph, not the entire document. Authors could fix typos, write revisions, and push version updates that propogate across the web the same way we do with software.

      The Webmention spec allows for updating content and resending notifications. This could be a signal sent to any links to the content that it had been updated and allow any translcuded pages to update if they wished.

    1. Should transclusion work both ways, embedding content and letting the source know that I did so?

      If one is worried about link rot for transclusion, why not just have a blockquote of the original in excerpt form along with a reference link to the original. Then you've got a permanent copy of the original and the link can send a webmention to it as a means of notification?

      If the original quoted page changes, it could potentially send a webmention (technically a salmention in function) to all the pages that had previously mentioned it to create updates.

      Automatic transclusion can also be more problematic in terms of original useful data being used as a vector of spam, graffiti, or other abuses.

      As an example, I can "transclude" a portion of your page onto my own website as a reply context for my comment and syndicate a copy to Hypothes.is. If you've got Webmentions on your site, you'll get a notification.

      For several years now I've been considering why digital gardens/zettelkasten/commonplace books don't implement webmention as a means of creating backlinks between wikis as a means of sites having conversations?

  4. Dec 2020
    1. Newsletters still miss the networked conversations on the topics, which we know from social networks and forums. I expect that all systems will continue to develop well in the near future, which may include an optional conversation layer about the information.

      Frank, a networked newsletter will have the backlinks, but why not do the notifications and display of them using Webmention as a layer on top? Why not let a reader reply to the newsletter via email and then take that content and attach it to the newsletter like a comments section?

      Why not have all the things?

    1. Facebook’s stated mission—to make the world more open and connected—

      If they were truly serious about the connectedness part, they would implement the Webmention spec and microformats, or something just like it, but open and standardized.

  5. Oct 2020
    1. (This is a much better question for @sphygmus, who seems to have a dope Webmention setup for her TiddlyWiki.)

      Webmention in general is certainly dope.

      In looking at her set up, it looks like she's used her site to sign into Aaron Parecki's https://webmention.io/ service which gives the site two link elements to put into the <header> of the site. Webmention.io then does all the plumbing for the site and allows you to log into a dashboard to see your notifications. Signing in only requires adding rel-me links from your site to at least one service (Twitter and GitHub are common) that links back and can do the oAuth dance on your behalf.

      I've know this was possible for sites that didn't have plugins or custom code yet, but hadn't done it until I added it to my own MediaWiki site last night.

      If I recall, there's also a way to use some scripting to export the data from webmention.io to display it on your own website, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

      I suspect this is what @sphygmus is doing, though she can confirm.

    1. When you can assume that all the materials you’re using in and with your class are open educational resources, here’s one way to remix the effective practices listed above with OER in order to provide you and your students with opportunities to spend your time and effort on work that makes the world a better place instead of wasting it on disposable assignments.

      As I think of remix, reuse, redistribute and things like git and version control, I also can't help but think that being able to send and receive webmentions in the process of reusing and redistribution with referential links back to the originals will allow the original creator to at least be aware of the changes and their existence to potentially manually add them to the original project. (Manually because they may not (yet) know how to keep their content under source control or allow others to do so and send pull requests.)

    1. And through this mechanism, I get to share a forward-linking “related articles” feature on my older posts, at no extra effort.

      This is a feature I haven't seen much of using Webmention, but it's a useful one that comes pretty cheaply.

    1. With the new take, we’re also trying to bring more of a classic SvN style back to the site. Not just big, marque pieces, but lots of smaller observations, quotes, links, and other posts as well.

      I wonder if they might also support Webmentions for commenting along with possibly maintaining their own microblog as they move away from Twitter too.

    1. Clicking through to the photo, there is no mention of this image appearing on this important announcement. Perhaps the author privately contact the photographer about using his image. Since Ken Doctor is so incredible with his media experience (i’m being serious), I’m fairly certain someone from his team would have contacted the photographer to give him a heads up.

      I'm sure I've said it before, but I maintain that if the source of the article and the target both supported the Webmention spec, then when a piece used an image (or really any other type of media, including text) with a link, then the original source (any website, or Flickr in this case) would get a notification and could show—if they chose—the use of that media so that others in the future could see how popular (or not) these types of media are.

      Has anyone in the IndieWeb community got examples of this type of attribution showing on media on their own websites? Perhaps Jeremy Keith or Kevin Marks who are photographers and long time Flickr users?

      Incidentally I've also mentioned using this notification method in the past as a means of decentralizing the journal publishing industry as part of a peer-review, citation, and preprint server set up. It also could be used as part of a citation workflow in the sense of Maria Popova and Tina Roth Eisenberg's Curator's Code<sup>[1]</sup>set up, which could also benefit greatly now with Webmention support.

    1. I can't help wondering if this might be modified to be used to pull in Webmentions from around the web using WordPress's Webmention plugin instead of relying on Telegraph.

      It sounds sort of like something I had discussed with David Shanske a while back to bookmark related mentions, but which didn't necessarily have my URL on them.

    1. What I dwell on the most regarding syndication is the Twitter stuff. I look back at the analytics on this site at the end of every year and look at where the traffic came from — every year, Twitter is a teeny-weeny itty-bitty slice of the pie. Measuring traffic alone, that’s nowhere near the amount of effort we put into making the stuff we’re tweeting there. I always rationalize it to myself in other ways. I feel like Twitter is one of the major ways I stay updated with the industry and it’s a major source of ideas for articles.

      So it sounds like Twitter isn't driving traffic to his website, but it is providing ideas and news. Given this I would syndicate content to Twitter as easily and quickly as possible, use webmentions to deal with the interactions and then just use the Twitter timeline for reading and consuming and nothing else.

    1. If you want to respond, do so on your own website and tell me.

      Often it's the mechanism by which the tell me is the most difficult. Fortunately Webmentions make this a bit easier, particularly if they're moderated so the original author can control what's on their website.

    1. Comments are enabled via Hypothes.is

      This may be the first time I've seen someone explicitly use Hypothes.is as the comment system on their personal website.

      I wonder if Matthew actively monitors commentary on his site, and, if so, how he's accomplishing it?

      The method I've used in the past as a quick and dirty method is Jon Udell's facet tool https://jonudell.info/h/facet/?wildcard_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fmatthewlincoln.net%2F*&max=100, though it only indicates just a few comments so far.

      Use cases like this are another good reason why Hypothes.is ought to support the Webmention spec.

    1. I think it is one of those topics with a lot of conjecture John. Apologies if there are too many links.

      Don't apologize for links. It's the web and links are important. In fact I might think that you could have a few additional links here! I would have seen it anyway, but I was a tad sad not to have seen a link to that massive pullquote/photo you made at the top of the post which would have sent me a webmention to boot. (Of course WordPress doesn't make it easy on this front either, so your best bet would have been an invisible <link> hidden in the text maybe?)

      I've been in the habit of person-tagging people in posts to actively send them webmentions, but I also have worried about the extra "visual clutter" and cognitive load of the traditional presentation of links as mentioned by John. As a result, I'm now considering adding some CSS to my site so that these webmention links simply look like regular text. This way the notifications will be triggered, but without adding the seeming "cruft" visually or cognitively. Win-win? Thanks for the inspiration!

      In your case here, you've kindly added enough context about what to expect about the included links that the reader can decide for themselves while still making your point. You should sleep easily on this point and continue linking to your heart's content.

    1. One way to meet the many needs that most if not all publishers share would be to collaboratively develop their digital products. Specifically, they should build for interoperability. One publisher’s CMS, another’s content APIs, a third company’s data offering — they might one day all work together to allow all ships to rise and to reclaim advertising and subscription revenue from the platforms. This might allow publishers to refocus on differentiating where it truly matters for the user: in the quality of their content.

      Some of this is already a-foot within the IndieWeb community with new protocols like Webmention, Micropub, WebSub, and Microsub.

    1. What am I missing about annotations for the web?

      They're not as wide spread certainly, but several people within the IndieWeb have been experimenting with annotations, and Webmention in conjunction with text fragments called fragmentions. In particular, Kartik Prabhu probably has one of the best examples and his site is able to take webmentions to fragments and show them in the margins in his site (much like Medium does).

    1. webmentions

      I'd recommend defining webmentions along with a link to the spec and W3C recommendation just after linkbacks/pingbacks as their more modern successor.

      As some of your potential audience isn't webmention aware, you could/should add some additional definition for those who are unlikely to click through to see the real value they represent.

    2. but on specific areas of it.

      Mention examples of this like Medium and/or Kartik's example using webmention.

    1. I like the idea of webmentions because they let me take complete ownership over my data. I do not need to put my faith into a comments system. There is no way that my comments can be edited other than by me. If I want to delete a webmention, I can, at any time, for any reason. While some of these features may be offered by websites, there’s never any guarantee that they will always offer the ability to modify the data I submit.
    1. Some content “jumped” platforms: eleven posts written for my blog were eventually cross-posted to new and traditional media platforms. It is impossible to track the ways posts became remixed and diffused through sites like Tumblr and Reddit, which are designed specifically for those purposes. But linkbacks from those posts and a general search reveals that it has happened often.

      Here's an interesting research space in which having Webmention for the linkbacks would have been useful.

    1. “Social” media: This is social interaction that isn’t really social. While Facebook and others frequently claim to offer connection, and do offer the appearance of it, the fact is a lot of social media is a simulation of real connection.

      Perhaps this is one of the things I like most about the older blogosphere and it's more recent renaissance with the IndieWeb idea of Webmentions, a W3C recommendation spec for online interactions? While many of the interactions I get are small nods in the vein of likes, favorites, or reposts, some of them are longer, more visceral interactions.

      My favorite just this past week was a piece that I'd worked on for a few days that elicited a short burst of excitement from someone who just a few minutes later wrote a reply that was almost as long as my piece itself.

      To me this was completely worth the effort and the work, not because of the many other smaller interactions, but because of the human interaction that resulted. Not to mention that I'm still thinking out a reply still several days later.

      This sort of human social interaction also seems to be at the heart of what Manton Reece is doing with micro.blog. By leaving out things like reposts and traditional "likes", he's really creating a human connection network to fix what traditional corporate social media silos have done to us. This past week's episode of Micro Monday underlines this for us.

    1. If anyone is aware of people or groups working on the potential integration of the IndieWeb movement (webmentions) and web annotation/highlighting, please include them in the comments below–I’d really appreciate it.

      The IndieWebCamp.com site lists a small handful of people with Hypothes.is affiliations who had websites, but none of the seem to be active any longer. Perhaps we can track some of them down via twitter?

    1. But how do we make it happen?

      Larry, I caught your Twitter conversation with Aaron Parecki earlier about IndieWeb. I've added a lot of the open specs he referenced to my own WordPress website with a handful of plugins and would be happy to help you do the same if you like.

      If nothing else, it'll give you some direct experience with how the decentralized nature of how these things work. I'm posting my reply to you own my own site and manually syndicating the reply (since you don't yet support webmention, one of the protocols) which will give at least some idea of how it all works.

      If you're curious about how you could apply it to your own WordPress site, I've collected some research, articles and experiments specific to my experience here: https://boffosocko.com/research/indieweb/

    2. We can look at a later iteration of Everipedia itself as an example. Right now, there is one centralized encyclopedia: Wikipedia. With the Everipedia Network, there will be a protocol that will enable people from all over the web to participate in a much broader project.

      As I look at this, I can't help think about my desire to want to be able to link to a wiki in a post and have a Webmention added to that post's "See Also" or reference section. With the link automatically added to the wiki's page like this, future readers and editors could have access to my original and could potentially synopsize and include details from my post into the wiki's article.

    1. Is there a particular project you want to pursue?

      Though I joined late, the course has spurred me to think about the concepts of mixing blogchains with webmentions, and resparked my interest in getting wikis to accept webmentions as well for building and cross-linking information.

    1. But imagine a world where you write an article named Subsidies and Local Government in WordPress, and that pings a notifier that indexes that page. And immediately you are notified of all pages named this, and presented with a list of pages those pages link to.

      A great argument to add webmentions to wiki software!

    1. the upshot is that this relatively new web standard allows for round-tripped connections among discrete domains, enabling the conversation about an individual post to be represented on that post, wherever it might actually take place.
    1. Secondly, it implies that the connection between the nodes is important. Every blog and every post can live as both node and as connection. What does that mean? It means you can write a post that is directed within the network. If you want to get on the radar of a blogger - write about their ideas and reference them. The lowly hyperlink is a connective tissue that creates a network graph between the nodes.

      One of the most valuable things I've discovered about Webmention is that it creates bi-directional links on the network. Sometimes these links are minor and just give me the location I initially saw something, but other times, they're far more substantial.

    1. receiving webmentions for syndicated copies

      I've done a poor man's version of this on websites that don't send webmentions, but which will let me put the permalink of my original from my site on them (either in a website field, or into the text of the comment and which don't filter out the HTML).

      In particular, I've done it on WordPress.com sites and put my reply from my site into their standard comment field and indicated to notify me by email of future comments.

      Then when I get the email notification, I can force a manual webmention of the reply and get something back to my website. In practice, it also requires a bit of massaging, but is better than nothing.

      I've documented the process here: https://boffosocko.com/2020/01/30/manual-backfeed-in-the-blogosphere/

    1. Soon after I finally took the leap and signed up for a mico.blog to explore that platform.

      Be sure to check out how you can post your content to your own website and syndicate your material into micro.blog (maybe via RSS or using plugins). If your site uses the Webmention and Semantic Linkbacks plugins, then any replies to your posts will be automagically ported directly back to the comment section of your post.

    2. Chris Aldrich

      By linking my site here, Jim has sent a Webmention: https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/14qD8olgI7lyGjRy0q/details

    1. Sure we have hyperlinks, and even some esoteric magic with the likes of webmentions. But I want big, simple, legible ways to link blog discussions together. I want: blogging megastructures!

      In practice, building massive infrastructure is not only very difficult, but incredibly hard to maintain (and also thus generally expensive). Who exactly is going to maintain such structures?

      I would argue that Webmentions aren't esoteric, particularly since they're a W3C recommendation with several dozens of server implementations including support for WordPress, Drupal, and half a dozen other CMSes.

      Even if your particular website doesn't support them yet, you can create an account on webmention.io to receive/save notifications as well as to send them manually.

    2. Chain: perhaps the simplest collaborative blogging form; a straightforward back and forth exchange of posts exploring a particular topicMesh: like a chain, but with multiple participants; still a legible structure e.g. alternating / round-robin style, but with more possibilities for multiplicity of perspectives and connections across postsFractal: multiple participants and multi-threaded conversation; more infinite game branching; a possibly ever-evolving and mutating conversation, so could probably use some kind of defined endpoint, maybe time-bound

      In the time I've been using Webmentions, I've seen all of these sorts of structures using them. Of particular interest, I've seen some interesting experiments with Fragmentions that allow one to highlight and respond to even the smallest fragments of someone's website.

    1. The page was set up to show any post that contained a link to it - in other words, if you linked to that page, then your post appeared on that page.

      An early implementation of Webmention?!

    1. I’m really not sure if linking, in general, has changed over the years. I’ve been doing it the same since day one. But that’s just me.

      Only in the last hour I've had a thought about a subtle change to one of the ways I link. It's not a drastic thing, but it is a subtle change to common practices. Also as I think about it, it removes some of the obviousness of links on social platforms like Twitter that add the ugly @ to a username in addition to other visual changes when one mentions someone else.

    1. The page counter is an invisible 1x1 pixel image that allows us and our authors to know when and where our content is republished.

      I see this and can't help but think about a tracking pixel that sends webmentions...

    1. being able to follow links to “follow a conversation” that is threaded on Twitter.

      This is one of my favorite parts about my website and others supporting Webmention: the conversation is aggregated onto or more closely adjacent to the source. This helps prevent context collapse.

      Has anyone made a browser tool for encouraging lateral reading? I'd love a bookmarklet that I could click to provide some highly relevant lateral reading resources for any particular page I'm on.

    1. The ideas here make me think that being able to publish on one's own site (and potentially syndicate) and send/receive webmentions may be a very useful tool within open science. We should move toward a model of academic samizdat where researchers can publish their own work for themselves and others. Doing this will give them the credit (and job prospects, etc.) while still allowing movement forward.

  6. Jul 2020
    1. web mentions

      a mentioning of the #webmention s right here folks

  7. May 2019
    1. Hypothesis doesn’t have a good concept of a site owner so there’s no way to get alerts for new annotations on my posts.

      That's a very good observation.

      Once upon a time I implemented a Hypothesis branch that honored Webmention links for a "pingback" when anyone annotated your site. Sadly, I never got it in a shape to ship.

      It looks like Webmention has since become a standard.

  8. Oct 2018
  9. Sep 2018
    1. Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you mention it on your site. From the receiver's perspective, it's a way to request notifications when other sites mention it.
    1. <link rel="pingback" href="https://webmention.io/username/xmlrpc" /> <link rel="webmention" href="https://webmention.io/username/webmention" />
  10. Aug 2018
    1. Webmention is a (now) standardized protocol that enables one website address (URL) to notify another website address that the former contains a reference to the latter. It also allows the latter to verify the authenticity of the reference and include its own corresponding reference in a reciprocal way.
  11. Jul 2018
    1. People can post about what they’re actively listening to (either on their personal websites or via podcast apps that could report the percentage of the episode listened to) and send “listen” Webmentions to pages for podcasts or other audio content.

      At some point, I'd love to have this built in automatically. I listen to (too many) podcasts and audiobooks. I'd like to have this automatically create a "Listen" post on my site.

    2. Marginalia#section5 With Webmention support, one could architect a site to allow inline marginalia and highlighting similar to Medium.com’s relatively well-known functionality. With the clever use of URL fragments, which are well supported in major browsers, there are already examples of people who use Webmentions to display word-, sentence-, or paragraph-level marginalia on their sites. After all, aren’t inline annotations just a more targeted version of comments?

      Absolutely. This is what I'd love to have with Hypothesis.

    3. As mentioned earlier, Webmentions allow notifications between web addresses. If both sites are set up to send and receive them, the system works like this: Alice has a website where she writes an article about her rocket engine hobby. Bob has his own website where he writes a reply to Alice’s article. Within his reply, Bob includes the permalink URL of Alice’s article. When Bob publishes his reply, his publishing software automatically notifies Alice’s server that her post has been linked to by the URL of Bob’s reply. Alice’s publishing software verifies that Bob’s post actually contains a link to her post and then (optionally) includes information about Bob’s post on her site; for example, displaying it as a comment. A Webmention is simply an @mention that works from one website to another!
    4. If you use Twitter, your friend Alice only uses Facebook, your friend Bob only uses his blog on WordPress, and your pal Chuck is over on Medium, it’s impossible for any one of you to @mention another. You’re all on different and competing platforms, none of which interoperate to send these mentions or notifications of them. The only way to communicate in this way is if you all join the same social media platforms, resulting in the average person being signed up to multiple services just to stay in touch with all their friends and acquaintances.
    5. Webmention is a (now) standardized protocol that enables one website address (URL) to notify another website address that the former contains a reference to the latter. It also allows the latter to verify the authenticity of the reference and include its own corresponding reference in a reciprocal way.