Ventura Highway, track 14 on the album Here & Now by America (1972-11-04)

It’s unsure whether a connection between this lyric and the famous Prince song (which was released 12 years after “Ventura Highway”) exists, but at least two journalists from The San Diego Union and the Post-Tribune wrote that Prince got the phrase “Purple Rain” from here.

Asked to explain the phrase “purple rain” in “Ventura Highway,” Gerry Beckley responded: “You got me.”

This reviewer misinteprets "can you read signs?" as "can you read psalms?"

I like how this guy says "Ok" or "Ok, let's go" each time he goes back from commentary on the lines to the show.

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Love this guy's facial expressions while reacting.

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Patience reaction video

Interesting perspective as interpretation where Jack says at the moment the song says "Who made up words, who made up numbers? Who wrote the Bible, who wrote the Q'uran" it might not even be a call to reflect and think for yourself (although this is absolutely a recurring theme in the song) but maybe they are implying all the science traces back not to the West (Europe) but to the East (Egypt, Africa). This interpretation aligns with the album this song was produced in, which is about Africa.

Patience reaction video

All true knowledge remains with God. There are certain ideas & pieces of knowledge that men just cannot learn. It remains out of reach, out of touch.

Also an interpreted theme in the song.

Apparently the mali chorus means: "Patience patience patience, is worth everything."

Reaction vid on patience

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The song's criticism on mass media is mainly related to sensationalism.

"Good" things are usually not sensational. They do not demand attention, hence why the code of known/unknown based on selectors for attention filters it out.

Reference Hans-Georg Moeller's explanations of Luhmann's mass media theory based on functionally differentiated systems theory.

Can also compare to Simone Weil's thoughts on collectives and opinion; organizations (thus most part of mass media) should not be allowed to form opinions as this is an act of the intellect, only residing in the individual. Opinion of any form meant to spread lies or parts of the truth rather than the whole truth should be disallowed according to her because truth is a foundational, even the most sacred, need for the soul.

People must be protected against misinformation.

Patience reaction vid

Reaction vid on patience

On a general level, the song is not just about criticizing society, but also about stimulating independence... and not just in thought and identity, but in everything.

Don't be dependent on external factors.

Unrelated to the song itself. It is interesting that different people interpret the song's meaning differently. Likely due to individual differences in perspective, history, culture, etc.

Makes me reflect. Is knowledge/wisdom contained solely in content and words? Or is knowledge/wisdom rather contained in the RELATIONSHIP, the INTERACTION, between past experience, previous knowledge (identity) and substance?

Currently I am inclined to go for the latter.

The idea of growing wiser vs. growing tall is likely not meant for the individual but for society as a whole or the world at large. The full context of the song. But it might have double meaning and refer to both individual and society.

Reminds me of Taleb's concept of Epistemic Arrogance (overvaluing that which we know)

Songwriters don't criticize keeping zoo animals. They criticize prioritizing the zoo animals over the youth/humans (take in the full context bro)... Prioritize money over humanity.

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Must not just have patience in general, but also patience with people.

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We'll Never Be Royals

Great song by a beautiful woman. Full of energy. Love the speech by the guy also.

Interesting thought. This guy relates the upcome of AI (non-fiction) writing to the lack of willingness people have to find out what is true and what is false.

Similar to Nas & Damian Marley's line in the Patience song -- "The average man can't prove of most of the things that he chooses to speak of. And still won't research and find the root of the truth that you seek of."

If you want to form an opinion about something, do this educated, not based on a single source--fact-check, do thorough research.

Charlie Munger's principle. "I never allow myself to have [express] an opinion about anything that I don't know the opponent side's argument better than they do."

It all boils down to a critical self-thinking society.

A critique on the Mass Media... The problem is that they want the Mass Media system to operate on the code of "True/False" rather than "Known/Unknown"... But if it were to be so, it would not be Mass Media anymore, but rather the Science System.

For Mass Media to be Mass Media it needs to be concerned with selection and filtering, to condense and make known, not to present "all the facts". Sure, they need to be concerned with truth to a certain degree, but it's not the primary priority.

This is a reflection based on my knowledge of Luhmann's theory of society as functionally differentiated systems; as explained by Hans-Georg Moeller (Carefree Wandering) on YouTube.

Today while listening to the song I am reminded, through reflection, upon the fact that it takes quite some self-awareness and intellectual humility to prevent the rigorous defense of uneducated opinion, especially in online intellectual communities.

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." -- Confucius

Something that intellectuals must be aware of. We must be flexible in opinion and not defend that which we actually have no knowledge of.

We can debate for Socratic sakes; to deepen our understanding, but not to persuade... Pitfall is one might come to believe beyond doubts that which one debates for.

Key is to becoming more aware of our debate behavior and stop ourselves when we realize we can't actually prove that which we think.

This is especially critical for someone in position of teacher or great advisor; he who is looken up to. People are easier to take their opinion for granted based on "authority". As an ethical intellectual we must not abuse this, either on purpose or by accident. With great power comes great responsibility.

For more meaning on the song: https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107858830191/

(2:03) "The average man can't prove of most of the things that he chooses to speak of. And still won't research and find the root of the truth that you seek of."

So true this quote. Dunning-Krueger. Ignorance. Stupidity.

Men should listen to Charlie Munger's advice: "I never allow myself to have [express] an opinion about anything that I don't know the opponent side's argument better than they do."

One of the greatest songs ever.

Much meaning. Depth.

Patience.

Interesting thread about Paris Hilton.

Main takeaway: Don't be quick to judge. Only form an opinion based on education; thorough research, evidence-based. If you don't want to invest the effort, then don't form an opinion. Simple as that.

Similar to "Patience" by Nas & Damian Marley.

Also Charlie Munger: "I never allow myself to have [express] an opinion about anything that I don't know the opponent side's argument better than they do."

Is there truth in this regarding medicine? Can we get more out of nature than media and common knowledge portrays? I am not certain, nor is this an area of research for me; but the truth is that it is fascinating to think about.

The larger point does make sense, too much people are focused on money for the sake of money. Money is supposed to be a means to an end; the end being the improvement of society; in the way things are currently set up.

True freedom of expression (a need for the soul as expressed by Simone Weil) must be given in academia as well; to write about that which you want to write about... Regardless of "social acceptance". A degree should be about objective knowledge and quality of knowledge, not the content of said knowledge.

See intellectual flexibility.

Honestly, I can't make a lick of sense from what Mr. X is saying here lol.

At least the latter part. I understand the previous part.

Again, as Simone Weil says, media (and especially research) must contain impartial factual knowledge, not opinion and especially not propaganda. Truth is a vital need of the soul.

No amount of money should be able to buy your soul (making you spread misinformation). It's like making a deal with the devil.

We are all united in being human and should act that way. Find common ground rather than focusing on differences. Don't be biased. A house divided will surely fall. A house united is strong.

When humanity is united as one, true societal advancement can happen.

The media is opinionized and feeds on fads; what is in the mind of the people. They survive based on attention.

Epictetus: "He who is properly grounded in life should not have to look for outside approval."

Also: "If you are ever tempted to look outside for approval, realize you have lost your integrity. If you need a witness, be your own."

Do not change as often as the winds... But do not be impervious to change either.

Nietzche: "The snake which cannot cast its skin has to die. As well the minds which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be mind."

There is a balance to be held. Change opinion and outside projection only if applicably by rational thought based on thorough research and nuanced deep understanding. Be principled, yet flexible.

The control of knowledge (or how it is portrayed) means to control the thoughts of people. This goes against freedom. See Simone Weil: the media should give factual knowledge and leave interpretation to the people. Opinion should fall to a person themselves.

Worth noting for Christians: before responding on impulse (from a good heart) and paying to save children, take a moment to stop, reflect and analyse, is this a trustworthy organization and person? Will my money truly solve something, will it really help someone?

Money should not be the deciding factor when it comes to determining which problems to solve and which to forego. In fact, anything that advances society as a whole, I'd argue should be free of charge. Is this possible? Not sure, but we as intellectuals should think about this.

Interesting food for thought for the optimization of education: should we give students not just domain knowledge (in an efficient manner) but also intercultural and experiental knowledge of the world?

Not just related to personal development such as wealth creation and personal finance, but also how other civilizations work... Tolerance. Teach them philosophy as well.

Obviously in such a way that it is attracting and they are intrinsically motivated to go to school and learn.

Raises a broader question: Is domain knowledge worth anything if you have no knowledge (or experience) about the world in itself? Can you be of any value if you do not know the world in such a manner?

This is a valid criticism (sorry Elon Musk)... By helping the other individual you in the end help society and therefore yourself.

We should be focusing on present problems that are closer to us before moving on to more abstract problems that have less value at present.

The same goes for ourselves. Try not to fix your family or neighborhood before you have fixed yourself (keep in mind diminishing returns). As Dan Koe said: "Your purpose is solving the most pressing problem you have right now." (not verbatim).

Try not to learn how to learn before your sleep schedule is excellent, before you know how to be productive and have habits.

Learning enablers first, THEN learning.

Fix first yourself, then your household, then the city, then the country, then the continent, etc. This does not have to be taken literally, but use it as a wise guidance. It's a principle rather than a law.

I will call the guy who gives a full theoretical analysis of this song, Mr. X.

Well, I wonder where Mr. X got all his analysis from first of all. Is it his interpretation? Or what is his source for the meaning of the song?

Is it therefore objectively true to the artist's intent or is it merely a (good) explanation that seeks to provoke thought?

I don't know how accurate this claim is as I have not yet dived deeply into ancient knowledge and compare it to modern interpretations of it, but I do feel like this hits a nail... Either Mr. X does or the artists.

It is quite logical that it is difficult to interpret ancient wisdom as wisdom often assumes the student or reader is familiar with common knowledge... However, what was common in ancient times might be rare currently, or even forgotten or used in different ways, making it very difficult to interpret and parse such texts without a high degree of mastery of background knowledge.

It's even harder for certain ancient times where everything was rooted in oral tradition without writing. People back then could've been generally wise, but without texts to refer to as primary sources it is virtually impossible to make sense of it.

Interesting interpretation of the song. There is truth to this, although I do not think this is what the artists intended to say.

I interpret it more like that they criticize the way the media operates in an opinionized manner, and that they encourage you reflect and think critically, to be skeptical and do your own research.

System 1 vs. System 2

Counteract the dopamine-dependent short-attention-spanned culture of today. Stop. Take time to think. Reflect. Go away from the devices. Perform analog note-making. Slow down.

Patience as a Virtue is highly important to a journey of lifelong learning. Without patience you cannot be resilient. Without resilience, you cannot 10X yourself continuously, you cannot keep growing.

First, a man should not have any power over that which he does not understand (deeply).

Second, patience as a virtue is very important here, because developing expertise in an area takes time and effort. One must be devoted.

Following from this manner comes, once again, Charlie Munger's principle... Do not form an opinion if you do not understand multiple perspectives.

"Yes, but I don't have the time to do my own research." is criticism on this principle, I respond with: "But if you aren't even willing to make time to form your opinion based on logic and deep understanding, is it worth having an opinion at all?"

Like Marcus Aurelius said: "The opinion of ten thousand men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject."

You don't ask a lawyer to perform surgery on you, or even to explain it to you theoretically, he does not know anything about this. In the same way, a civilian should not be asked to teach politics.

From the same manner, do not judge before understanding. This is also what Mortimer J. Adler & Charles van Doren advocate: "You must say with reasonable certainty 'I understand' before you can say any of the following: 'I agree,' 'I disagree,' or 'I suspend judgement.'"

This is basically critical thinking. Which is also my goal for (optimal) education: To build a society of people who think for themselves, critical thinkers; those who do not take everything for granted. The skeptics.

See also Nassim Nicolas Taleb's advice to focus on what you DON'T know rather than what you DO know.

Related to syntopical reading/learning as well. (and Charlie Munger's advice). You want to build a complete picture with a broad understanding and nuanced before formulating an opinion.

Remove bias from your judgement (especially when it comes to people or civilizations) and instead base it on logic and deep understanding.

This also relates to (national, but even local) media... How do you know that what the media portrays about something or someone is correct? Don't take it for granted, especially if it is important, and do your own research. Validity of source is important; media is often opinionized and can contain a lot of misinformation.

See also Simone Weil's thoughts on media, especially where she says misinformation spread must be stopped. It is a vital need for the soul to be presented with (factual) truth.

There is a need for intellectual humility within the community of researchers, and society in general. Do not speak confident about that which you do not know.

Relation to Charlie Munger's principle.

for - AI music issues - rerecording an AI music generated song - copyright question

Is this documented in the Child Ballads?

Compare with The Turkish Lady- Forget-me-Not Songster c.1845<br /> http://bluegrassmessengers.com/the-turkish-lady--forget-me-not-songster-c1845.aspx

The Turkish Lady https://mainlynorfolk.info/peter.bellamy/songs/theturkishlady.html

https://www.composers.com/composers/allan-blank/variations-turkish-lady <audio controls="controls" controlslist="nodownload"> <source src="http://acacomposers.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/andrewkohn-allanblank-variationsonturkishlady_-_excerpt.mp3" type="audio/mpeg"> </audio>

Young Beichan<br /> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Beichan

Lord Bateman<br /> https://englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com/2012/05/english-folk-songs-lord-bateman.html

https://www.baoholaodongtot.com/go-nhua/item/591-thanh-lam-song-ban-nguyet-lom-song-am-mang-pvc

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roud_Folk_Song_Index

This seems to have an interesting relation to the tradition of wassailers and "luck visitors" traditions or The Christmas Mummers (1858). The song We Wish You a Merry Christmas (Roud Folk Song Index #230 and #9681) from the English West Country (Cornwall) was popularized by Arthur Warrell (1883-1939) in 1935. It contains lyrics "We won't go until we get some" in relation to figgy pudding and seems very similar in form to Mari Lwyd songs used to gain access to people's homes and hospitality. An 1830's version of the song had a "cellar full of beer" within the lyrics.

I'm curious if the Roud Folk Song Index includes any Welsh songs or translations that have similar links? Perhaps other folk song indices (Child Ballads?) may provide clues as well?

Uncle Ghillar Michael Anderson told a story of how his mob went into a museum and transferred the knowledge from sacred objects in the museum and then took the spirts out of there and moved them back in country. The curators didn't understand the process at all or how they had corrupted the sacred objects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkjf0hCKOCE

The sky is a textbook. The sky is a lawbook. The sky is a science book. —Duane Hamacher, (1:24)

Hamacher uses the Western description "method of loci" rather than an Indigenous word or translated word.

The words "myth", "legend", "magic", "ritual", and "religion" in both colloquial English and even anthropology are highly loaded terms.

Words like "narrative" and "story" are better used instead for describing portions of the Indigenous cultures which we have long ignored and written off for their seeming simplicity.

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https://site.pennpress.org/material-texts-2021/9780812236422/textual-situations/

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Textual Situations: Three Medieval Manuscripts and Their Readers by Andrew Taylor

Generations of scholars have meditated upon the literary devices and cultural meanings of The Song of Roland. But according to Andrew Taylor not enough attention has been given to the physical context of the manuscript itself. The original copy of The Song of Roland is actually bound with a Latin translation of the Timaeus.

Textual Situations looks at this bound volume along with two other similarly bound medieval volumes to explore the manuscripts and marginalia that have been cast into shadow by the fame of adjacent texts, some of the most read medieval works. In addition to the bound volume that contains The Song of Roland, Taylor examines the volume that binds the well-known poem "Sumer is icumen in" with the Lais of Marie de France, and a volume containing the legal Decretals of Gregory IX with marginal illustrations of wayfaring life decorating its borders.

Approaching the manuscript as artifact, Textual Situations suggests that medieval texts must be examined in terms of their material support—that is, literal interpretation must take into consideration the physical manuscript itself in addition to the social conventions that surround its compilation. Taylor reconstructs the circumstances of the creation of these medieval bound volumes, the settings in which they were read, inscribed, and shared, and the social and intellectual conventions surrounding them.

Università degli Studi dell’Insubria. (2021, May 14). Covid-19 Vaccine—The musical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glueeURebDU

An overview of Milman Parry's life, work, and some of his impact on Homeric studies and orality as media.

The song's title was mentioned in Sly and the Family Stone's hit song "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Again)” (1969).

https://youtu.be/AI-8mKmnupw

https://youtu.be/xdIGp4Ge8yk

https://youtu.be/Nz2JEmKvixE

https://genius.com/Sly-and-the-family-stone-sing-a-simple-song-lyrics

I had three songs, had them reared and taught, But their use to me did not last, They left their poor mother weeping Every Sunday, and break her heart The youngest son wasn’t the dearest to me, Even though he, Peadar, was a fine young man, It was the eldest son whose lost hurt me deepest, He has me nearly killed with sorrow

My darling Peadar who was most polite, Who life to make a better life, Our neighbours loved you when you dwelt here, And you were the best of help when out with Seán

I hope you’ll be greeted forgivingly, with a powerful pardon from God above, Who might bear you home to me, safe from danger, Because I sorely miss my baby son,

And you are the heedless son, That won’t visit me by day or by night, After me carrying you for 9 months, And graving great danger to give birth to you, Didn’t I give you schooling and a bit of learning, But it seems now that I didn’t do well, My heartbreak concerns you little, Where you are

I was well acquainted with a well-off old man, And his place of dwelling was down in the glen He was well propertied, with plenty of livestock, And silver and gold to go along with it

He took the advice that he should marry a young woman, As she’d look after his house much better than he, But by morning and night she was cross and upset, About the key to the trunk which was not to be found

Isn’t it a pitiful case, that you’d approach any woman, When you know in your heart you couldn’t be loved, Amn’t I kind to you, that you’d ever be so lucky, That I’d stay by your side you crooked old wretch

Didn’t I give you much, silver and gold, Small boats and big ones, a horse and cart, Your fill of fine things, and of good hearty good, A fine bed of feathers, where you sleep at your ease

If you gave me the world, and all it has to eat and drink, All the wealth of King George which is known to be grand, A fleet under fine sail and coaches under the road, I’d rather have a young man than you, you old wretch

If you can’t see sense, go find your young man Put on your coat, and your cloak round your neck, Be at the crossroad when evening comes, And you’ll get yourself a young man if you wait long enough

If I could find shelter somewhere in the Liberties Oh how happily I’d spend winter there It would gladden my mind, and not at all break my heart Like it does to lie with you, you old wretch

This repetition in words seems to be a song or chant of some sort. The writer is describing all this trash around him but then jumps to the perspective of others.

Dry grass to me seems so lifeless, basically dead. But as the stanza before, this is like pairing opposites. If dry grass does sing, I imagine it's a sad song.

It was not easy to make the music of the film which belongs to a 3000 years Old civilization and which have very few evidence and things available which belong to that time so for the film maker the most challenging part was the film's music. Mohenjo Daro

Dù không còn ai để tin, vẫn sẽ tin vào AI và tâm lý học Psyc ít nhất là cái mình có thể thử nghiệm hàng ngày! AI trong cuộc sống có lẽ giờ khoa học dữ liệu vẫn là phổ biến nhất nhưng nếu theo khoa học dữ liệu bây giờ, mình sẽ xa rời mục tiêu đầu tiên: xe tự hành. Có nên theo một thứ không biết bao giờ mới có, có thể chả bảo giờ, mà theo một thứ khác có thể làm ngay bây giờ, mà vẫn có liên quan

Dù sao Trí tuệ Nhân tạo vẫn là cái mình có thể tin dù tất cả mọi thứ fall down, tear broken, mình vẫn sẽ theo nó tới cùng. Vì nó là thứ duy nhất dạy mình cách sống sao cho hiệu quả, dễ dẫn tới thành công nhất tâm lý học dạy mình cách sống tốt, có ý nghĩa, hạnh phúc nhất cần kết hợp cả 2 cái này để đạt được cả thành công lẫn hạnh phúc

Live in the Here and Now

The River Lethe was one of the rivers of Hades in Greek mythology. Exposure to its waters was held to lead to loss of memory, or, more intriguingly, a state of "unmindfulness" and oblivion. From this origin, it has re-appeared throughout western culture, from Dante to Tony Banks's first solo album (River Lethe in popular culture, Wikipedia).

By providing the alternative spelling of Leith, Alasdair Roberts 'doubles' this meaning with the Water of Leith, a river that runs through Edinburgh, and co-locates ancient Greek and contemporary Scots mythology.

The idea of eternal return is bound up with memory, with cultures being compelled to repeat and confront the missteps of the past. So the oblivion of forgetfulness provided by the endless Lethe provides a form of antidote or escape.

In interview with Tyler Wilcox in 2009, Alasdair Roberts referred to the

specifically Jungian references to the "sermons seven" and mandalas... it's like a quest song against conflict and towards individuation. I know a lot of people with strong political or religious convictions whose musical and artistic practice is guided by that – in some ways I envy that kind of certitude, but I suppose my thing is always about flexibility, multiplicity, confusion wanting to reflect the turmoil of reality... always trying to remember that the oar in the ocean is a winnowing fan on dry land.'

The end of this first song on Spoils recalls the end of the first song on the Farewell Sorrow album, particularly the lines:

Life is but Death's own right-hand man<br> In every piece of his own left-hand business.<br> So arm in arm, we'll run toward that pair<br> And we as they, joined and double-threaded

Similarly Grief and Joy are "as one", and the parallel with Life and Death brings us full circle to the tacit allusion in this song's title to Hamish Henderson's Flyting o' Life and Daith.

The concept of eternal return has a chequered history through philosophy and culture, but Alasdair Roberts is invoking the particular use of the term by the religious historian Mircea Eliade. The Wikipedia entry) says that Eliade's eternal return is "a belief, expressed... in religious behaviour, in the ability to return to the mythical age, to become contemporary with the events described in one's myths".

Thus, through the medium of song, we are taken back to become contemporary with, among other things, the Crusades and the falls of Jericho and of Babylon.

From Alasdair's interview by Tyler Wilcox in 2009:

the first song in some ways explores the idea of “eternal return” – I was reading Mircea Eliade on the subject, and Nietzsche obviously wrote about it – I became obsessed with the idea and the various ways in which it could be configured. There’s obviously the classic image of the ouroboros serpent… but I was also think about it in terms of the myth of progress – when what we think of as progress is actually destruction. Like Kekulé’s ring, Benzene. And the fact that I personally constantly return to Song as a form of “expression” or creation rather than, say, improvisation or composition.

Recalls the 'rose and briar' motif that ends many versions of Barbara Allen, including the one performed by Alasdair Roberts himself (on Too Long in this Condition, which follows reasonably closely the singing of Joe Heaney):

They buried her in the old churchyard, <br> And William was buried beside her. <br> From Barbara's grave grew a red red rose. <br> From William's a green briar.

They grew to the top of the old church wall, <br> 'Til they could grow no higher. <br> They wrapped and entwined in a lover's knot, <br> The rose around the briar.

This sets up the idea that Joy and Grief are deeply coupled...

Flyting is fighting with words, a verbal contest between two adversaries who trade barbed insults and boasts, often in verse (Wikipedia entry). In working with this form, Alasdair Roberts is very probably inspired by Hamish Henderson's sung poem The Flyting o' Life and Daith (words, recording). The Tobar an Duchlais site notes that

Hamish Henderson finished this poem in 1963, having drawn on an anonymous German poem he had seen in 1939. Referring to the melody that he composed in order for it to be performed as a song, he stated: "[it] somewhat resembles the 'urlar' (or 'ground') of a pibroch". The poem was first published in 'The Scottish Broadsheet' (May, 1963).