68 Matching Annotations
  1. Aug 2023
    1. At best, we will see new forms of collaboration among large numbers of people toward beneficial ends. The most obvious example is the changing nature of responses to largescale natural disasters. Perhaps we will see this spirit of volunteer and entrepreneurial cooperation emerge to address such pressing issues as climate change (e.g., maybe, the Green New Deal will be crowdsourced)
      • for: TPF, crowdsource solutions, climate crisis - commons, polycrisis - commons, quote, quote - crowdsourcing solutions, quote Miles Fidelman, Center for Civic Networking, Protocol Technologies Group, bottom-up, collective action
      • quote
        • At best, we will see new forms of collaboration among large numbers of people toward beneficial ends.
        • The most obvious example is the changing nature of responses to largescale natural disasters.
        • Perhaps we will see this spirit of volunteer and entrepreneurial cooperation emerge to address such pressing issues as climate change
          • e.g., maybe, the Green New Deal will be crowdsourced.
      • author: Miles Fidelman
        • founder, Center for Civic Networking
        • principal, Protocol Technologies Group
    1. We need mass innovation in design of social tools that help us bridge fragmentation and polarization, bring diversity into our media landscapes and help find common ground between disparate groups. With these as conscious design goals, technology could be a powerful positive force for civic change. If we don’t take this challenge seriously and assume that we’re stuck with mass-market tools, we won’t see positive civic outcomes from technological tools.”
      • for: quote, quote - Ethan Zuckerman, quote - fragmentation and polarization, Indyweb - support, MIT Center for Civic Media, Global Voices
      • quote
        • We need mass innovation in design of social tools that help us
          • bridge fragmentation and polarization,
          • bring diversity into our media landscapes and
          • help find common ground between disparate groups.
        • With these as conscious design goals,
          • technology could be a powerful positive force for civic change.
        • If we don’t take this challenge seriously and assume that we’re stuck with mass-market tools,
          • we won’t see positive civic outcomes from technological tools.”
      • author
        • Ethan Zuckerman
          • director of MIT’s Center for Civic Media and
          • co-founder of Global Voices
  2. Nov 2022
    1. 11/30 Youth Collaborative

      I went through some of the pieces in the collection. It is important to give a platform to the voices that are missing from the conversation usually.

      Just a few similar initiatives that you might want to check out:

      Storycorps - people can record their stories via an app

      Project Voice - spoken word poetry

      Living Library - sharing one's story

      Freedom Writers - book and curriculum based on real-life stories

  3. Mar 2022
    1. ¿Deberíamos crear algo así para HackBo?

      Una de las cosas importantes es pensar en cuando le damos curso a estos pensamientos. Al comienzo, quizás lo más conveniente es pensar en vida, más que en ayudar a morir. Otras metáforas como compostaje podría ser más convenientes.

  4. Dec 2021
    1. Web3 promises rewards — maybe even a kind of justice — for “users”, but Ethereum doesn’t know anything about users, only wallets. One user can control many wallets; one bot can con­trol many wallets; Ethereum can’t tell the difference, doesn’t par­tic­u­larly care. Therefore, Web3’s gov­er­nance tools are appro­pri­ate for decision-making processes that approx­i­mate those of an LLC, but not for anything truly democratic, which is to say, any­thing that respects the uniform, unearned — unearned!—value of per­son­hood.
  5. Nov 2021
  6. Oct 2021
  7. Sep 2021
  8. Mar 2021
    1. There's a reasonably good overview of some ideas about fixing the harms social media is doing to democracy here and it's well framed by history.

      Much of it appears to be a synopsis from the perspective of one who's only managed to attend Pariser and Stround's recent Civic Signals/New_Public Festival.

      There could have been some touches of other research in the social space including those in the Activity Streams and IndieWeb spaces to provide some alternate viewpoints.

    1. Ce site fournit une liste non-exhaustive des outils Open Source utilisables pour des projets de démocratie participative.

  9. Sep 2020
    1. The ADS was developed by the military some twenty years ago as a way to disperse crowds. There have been questions about whether it worked, or should be deployed in the first place. It uses millimeter wave technology to essentially heat the skin of people targeted by its invisible ray.

      "Turn the 5G ray on them"

      "Ominous weapons" indeed.

  10. Aug 2020
  11. May 2020
  12. Apr 2020
  13. Apr 2019
  14. Jan 2019
    1. Gdańsk podążył za rekomendacją Marcina Gerwina i zdecydował się zwołać panel obywatelski. To dość radykalna metoda, bo panel nie jest ciałem konsultacyjnym, tylko decyzyjnym. Rekomendacje panelu, które zyskają poparcie 80 procent jego uczestników, stają się w Gdańsku obowiązujące. Do tego jeśli obywatele zbiorą 5 tys. podpisów, władze miasta mają obowiązek zorganizować panel na wskazany przez mieszkańców temat. Trudno o lepszy przykład obywatelskiego współwytwarzania polityki miejskiej.
  15. Jul 2018
  16. Jun 2018
    1. pushing them to create their own knowledge and contribute thoughtfully to ongoing academic and civic conversations

      contribute thoughtfully, connect kindly, and go boldly... I think Troy's words here are the umbrella goal. Don't you?

  17. Nov 2017
    1. Atanyrate,thisbringsustothesecondgroupwementionedearlier:hacktivists.Thetermisnotanelegantone,andithashadalimitedtraction,probablyforthatreason.Butitintroducesavitaldistinctionintermsofunderstandingtheeffectsofwhathackersdoinorbysayingsomethingandthusdoingsomethingwithcode.JordanandTaylorcapturedthisvitaldifferencebydesignatinghacktivistsasrebelswithacauseandyetposingthisstatementwithaquestionmarktoindicatethattheeffectsarenotstraightforwardtointerpret.

      For example, they admit that although hacktivism arises from hackers, it is difficult to draw the line between the two: ‘[B]ecause hacktivism uses computer techniques borrowed from the pre-existing hacker community, it is difficult to identify definitively where hacking ends and hacktivism begins.’[55] They understand hacktivism as ‘the emergence of popular political action, of the selfactivity of groups of people, in cyberspace. It is a combination of grassroots political protest with computer hacking. Jordan and Taylor also provide a historical overview of dissent and civil disobedience as repertoires of politics, which we would call ‘acts of digital citizens’. They discuss how, for example, electronic civil disobedience by Zapatistas, the Mexican dissident group, changed the terms of policies by engaging incipient Internet technologies in the 1990s to argue that Zapatismo—the convention combined of grassroots and electronic activism—was in many ways the birthplace of hacktivism as a disruptive convention. [...] At this point in time it is difficult to know how much of a disturbance these acts of electronic civil disobedience specifically make. What we do know is that neoliberal power is extremely concerned by these acts.’

      En el caso de La Gobernatón, lo que hicimos fue auditar los términos de la contratación pública usando técnicas de verificación de integridad de software, basadas en firmas de integridad criptográfica (una combinación alfanúmérica única asociada a un archivo, que se modifica bastante, si el archivo cambia en lo más mínimo, por ejemplo, agregando un espacio). Fue el hecho de aunar técnicas computacionales clásicas, como seas las que activaron la idea de la Gobernatón y luego del Data Week. Esto ocurrió localmente, al margen de las prácticas anteriores y paralelas que hacían los zapatistas, o los peiordistas de datos. Era una idea cuyo tiempo había llegado y se empezaba a originar e distintos lugares, con las variaciones propias de cada contexto).

    2. Levydrewamorenuancedandpanoramicviewofhackersyetstillpracticallyreproducedtheclandestineimage.Critiquingthisimage,TimJordanandPaulTaylorarguethatvariousclassesofhackersemergedovertimeandneedtobedistinguished.

      Coleman (Coding Freedom) dice lo mismo.

      [...] By the 1990s, hackers were already functioning in at least four ways: original hackers (dissident and libertarian), microserfs (subservient and submissive), a growing group of open-source software developers (critical and resilient), and politically motivated hacktivists (political and subversive).[44] These two last groups—open-source developers and hacktivists—constitute the most significant groups for understanding the emergence of citizen subjects in cyberspace.

  18. Oct 2017
    1. And outside the classroom, meetings with public oicials, nonprofits, and other community members, where students are given a chance to present their findings and recommendations on an issue they’ve researched

      Public annotation of government documents/websites, newspaper articles, etc.

  19. Sep 2017
    1. Put slightly differently, if we want civic hackathons to produce ideas that improve society, we need to more deeply and sincerely shape choices, thought processes, and activities that might make technology civic.

      De acá la importancia de crear capacidad en las bases para que ellos digan sus propias voces medidos por la tecnología.

    2. Dunne and Raby’s (2013) notion of speculative design helps outline how future-oriented thought works at civic hackathons. They suggest that speculative design on “wicked problems” creates “spaces for discussion and debate about alternative ways of being, and to inspire and encourage people’s imaginations to flow freely” (Dunne & Raby, 2013, p. 2). They find merit in dreaming, as the future is an “aid imaginative thought” (p. 3). Materialities assist development of ideas and approaches to collectively thinking about possible futures. For them, critique has a place in design, particularly humor. Designers can “pull new technological developments into imaginary but believable everyday situations so that we can explore possible consequences before they happen” (p. 57). Speculative design is a helpful bridge to the civic imagination.

      De nuevo, acá hay una tensión sobre cómo el puente entre el presente y dichos futuros se logra. Como he señalado en otras ocasiones, la brecha entre dichos futuros y el presente es llenada por alguna forma de distopia usualmente, como pasó para con la visión Dynabook y los paradigmas actuales de computación.<br> Sin embargo hay que abonar la inmensa diversidad de que esa visión no se lograra (pues era un sistema mono-lenguaje, mono-paradigma). Podrían estas miradas diversas pero de complejidad accidental, hablar con las de los sistemas monolenguaje con complejidades fundamentales? (COLA parece una idea al respecto).

      Grafoscopio transita y propone dichos puentes entre futuros posibles y presente buscando inspiraciones diversas y combinándolas en una materialidad particular.

    3. that civic hackathons are highly fluid and contested spaces where power is negotiated. However, critical and design perspectives clearly differ on the theorized relationship between civic participation and technology. The imposed civic ideology perspective tells us high technology corporations force an essentially bogus ideology on the event. Participants

      encounter a version of civic life warped by the neoliberalist goals

    4. Simply diversifying participantion is no guarantee that outcomes benefit diverse communities, and declaring an event civically important does not make it so. After years of participating in and running civic hackathons I noticed a new turn. This new type of civic hackathon was intentionally run to foster performance, spectacle, and communicative activities around a loose shell of technology-oriented activities. Technology became more talked about than materially captured.
    5. More staunch critics questioned if the White House was being duplicitous by inviting “civic hackers” under the guise of transparency while having the worst administrative record for prosecuting whistleblowers.

      Acá la crítica consistente ha sido la tardía invitación de la sociedad civil a participar de la construcción de la política pública. En ese sentido, el carácter performativo de la hackatón puede servir como una forma de brand washing sobre opacidades y ausencias de participación más profundas, por ejemplo frente a la ejecución de presupuestos públicos, cómo mostró la gobernatón.

    6. Initially at least, civic hackathons were initially positioned as a form of public outreach for civic hackers, a loose-knit community interested in applying technology for social good. James Crabtree (2007) defined “civic hacking” as “the development of applications to allow mutual aid among citizens rather than through the state.” In particular, he suggested an extra-institutional definition, thatcivic hacking filled in where e-democracy had failed. The meaning of “civic” at this stage leaned towards a libertarian perspective, which remains a persistent critique of hacking among critical studies scholars (Golumbia, 2013).
    7. The two perspectives are also not mutually exclusive — a participant might be frustrated at the rushed, corporatized nature of a certain civic hackathon and come to explore ideas about improving civic life.
    8. Civic hackathons have been hotly debated in recent years. Critical studies scholars have lambasted civic hackathons for aligning with middle-class citizenship(Irani, 2015)and co-opting participant labor (Gregg, 2014a). Silicon Valley is often the fait accompliin these perspectives, bringing a flawed ideology that seduces organizers and participants into transposing technological language onto civic issues (Also see: Barbrook & Cameron, 1996; Morozov, 2013). In this paper I refer to this perspective as an “imposed civic ideology.” The second perspective comes from design scholars interested in material participation (Marres, 2012) as cohering publics to work on particular social issues. Lodato and DiSalvo (2016) suggested that civic hackathons served two purposes. First, they help people think through civic issues using props — “objects, services, and systems that engage with issues” (p. 16). Second, they cohere ephemeral proto-publics for short-term engagement on issues of public concern. As they summarized, "what is important is not the inventiveness of a particular prototype product or service, but rather, how the event fosters opportunities for collaborative or collective issue articulation" (p. 15). They drew attention to how outcomes of civic hackathons may more likely be social and cultural than functional material objects. I refer to this design perspective as an “emergent civic subjectivity.”

      La pregunta sería cómo los protopúblicos y activistas pueden encontrarse en este formato y cómo los "props" se convierten en prototipos durables e iterables, parecido a como lo hacemos con Grafoscopio.

      En particular me llama la atención entre las narrativas de datos y soluciones completas/integradas para ellas (tipo Grafoscopio) y las aplicaciones móviles más orientadas a la recolección de información, así como las redes sociales y canales de chat para articular ciudadanos. Los puentes sobre esas materialidades serían motivo de exploraciones futuras.

    1. The baroque succeeded because it expressed something all Latin American people (Indians, Africans, mestizos, and even sons and daughters of Spaniards born on the con-tinent) had in common: the rejection of the domineering and distant center. Carpentier (1995) explains that to understand “Why is Latin America the chosen territory of the baroque?” we must look at the people and processes that allowed them to finally own the continent: “Because all symbiosis, all mestisaje engenders the baroque. The American baroque develops [...] with the self-awareness of the American man [...] the awareness of being Other, of being new, of being symbiotic, of being a criollo” (p

      Eso se parece a la idea de decir, con las tecnologías del colono, la voz de los colonizados y es similar a lo dicho por Freire y lo que practicamos desde el Data Week, donde rechazamos el discurso centralizado, imperialista y capitalista del "emprendimiento", a pesar de que usamos tecnologías digitales producidas en EEUU para hablar de las voces locales.

    1. “Civic hackers” are a diverse range of individuals who improve community life by creating and modifying digital infrastructure. Policy-makers optimistically describe them as driving new economies using government data. Critical scholars note how they precariously labor for waning institutions. Yet, we may misunderstand civic hackers because they transgress established political categories of libertarianism and liberalism, and adversary and unitary democracy. Andrew Schrock charts a middle ground by argu-ing that civic hacking—and its fraught, even contradictory politics—partly emerged from a history of progressive informational practices. In the shift from “information” to “data,” the original goals of these practices became muted, even as new possibilities for civic engagement emerged. “Data activism and advocacy” describes a fraught but diverse range of political tactics of amateur experts working for change, often within the political system. He argues these remediated practices carry the impulses of political reform, even as they are often tied up with conflicting imperatives.

      Mi percepción en Hackademia es que esta tercera vía en las múltiples identidades hacker era invisible.

    1. Might “utopian realist” be applicable to the practices of civic hackers, intertwined with particular repertoires, technologies, and affective publics? McKenzie Wark (2014) sug-gests that the relationship between utopian and realist might be mutually constitutive rather than dialectical. He re-frames utopia as a realizable fragment or diagram that re-imagines relations. From this perspective, civic hacking gets traction not because they were ever intended to be the sole “solution” to a problem, but they are ways of acting and creating that are immediately apprehensible. Prototypes capture the imagination because they are shards of a possible future and can be created, modified, and argued about (Coleman, 2009).
    2. Civic hackers might be most appropriately described as utopian realists (Giddens, 1990: 154), a term Giddens employed to capture how assuaging negative consequences in a risk society required retaining Marx’s concern of connecting social change to insti-tutional possibilities while leaving behind his formulation of history as determining and reliance on the proletariat as change agents. He positioned utopian realists as sensitive to social change, capable of creating positive models of society, and connecting with life politics.
    3. civic hackers seek to ease societal suffering by bringing the hidden workings of abstract systems to light and improve their functioning. Part of the academic discomfort with recognizing civic hacking might stem from their activities cutting across political categories that have traditionally been passionately defended: unitary and adversary, citizen and consumer, horizontalist and institutionalized, and prefigurative and strategic.

      La noción de realistas utópicos se vincula con la idea del "no todavía" como utopía expresada en la tesis.

    4. Data activism and advocacy ranges from civic engagement (Putnam, 2001) to more oppositional activism (Jordan, 2001). In this sense, it is a spe-cific association of technologically mediated participation with particular political goals (Lievrouw, 2011) resulting in a wide range of tactics. Although open government data is still evolving and is constrained by predictions for economic growth and self-regulation, I argue it enables civic hackers to participate in civic data politics. This is particularly important because data-driven environment is often distanced from pro-viding individuals a sense of agency to change their conditions (Couldry and Powell, 2014). Data activism and advocacy can take place through organizing on related top-ics, online through mediated data repositories such as Github, and in-person events such as hackathons.

      [...]Contributing, modeling, and contesting stem from residents leveraging possibilities of open data and software production to attempt to alter process of governance.

      En este amplio espectro, sería chévere ver maneras de gobernanza y cómo pasan a la esfera de lo público y se articulan con los bienes comunes y las entidades encargadas de preservarlos y extenderlos.

      Esta transición aún está desarticulada y no la hemos visto. Las formas de gobernanza de HackBo, aún se encuentran distantes de las formas institucionales públicas, privadas y del tercer sector (ONG), si bien piezas de este rompecabezas se exploran en paralelo, su escalamiento a nivel ciudad aún está por verse.

    5. Civic hacking can broadly be described as a form of alternative/activist media that “employ or modify the communication artifacts, practices, and social arrangements of new information and communication technologies to challenge or alter dominant, expected, or accepted ways of doing society, culture, and politics” (Lievrouw, 2011: 19). Ample research has considered how changes in technology and access have created “an environment for politics that is increasingly information-rich and communication-inten-sive” (Bimber, 2001). Earl and Kimport (2011) argue that such digital activism draws attention to modes of protest—“digital repertoires of contention” (p. 180)—more than formalized political movements

      La idea de tener "repertorios de contención" es similar a la de exaptación en el diseño.

    6. Organizations such as Code for America (CfA) rallied support by positioning civic hacking as a mode of direct partici-pation in improving structures of governance. However, critics objected to the involve-ment of corporations in civic hacking as well as their dubious political alignment and non-grassroots origins. Critical historian Evgeny Morozov (2013a) suggested that “civic hacker” is an apolitical category imposed by ideologies of “scientism” emanating from Silicon Valley. Tom Slee (2012) similarly described the open data movement as co-opted and neoliberalist.
    7. Other definitions capture broader notions of civil society. A 2010 study backed by the Open Society Foundation described civic hackers as “deploying information technology tools to enrich civic life, or to solve particular problems of a civic nature, such as democratic engagement” (Hogge, 2010: 10).
    8. I conclude civic hackers are utopian realists involved in the crafting of algorithmic power and discussing ethics of technology design.

      In the process, civic hackers transgress established boundaries of political participation.

    9. Successive waves of activists saw the Internet as a tool for transparency. The framing of openness shifted in meaning from information to data, weakening of mechanisms for accountability even as it opened up new forms of political participation. Drawing on a year of interviews and participant observation, I suggest civic data hacking can be framed as a form of data activism and advocacy: requesting, digesting, contributing to, modeling, and contesting data
  20. Feb 2017
    1. An educational framework integrated across social change methodologies would offer depth of content and breadth of experience, providing opportunities for students to develop their citizenship skills and hone their entrepreneurial abilities so that they can think and act effectively within systems. To develop such a framework, faculty, staff, and industry professionals will have to become changemakers themselves. We will need to understand the contexts of our diverse fields and institutions, build coalitions, and expand on each other’s experiences in new and creative ways as we support our students in pursuing social change.
  21. Jun 2016
  22. www.constituteproject.org www.constituteproject.org
    1. Preamble Share We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

      You can't get much better than this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

  23. May 2016
    1. identifying who or what body in the community has power to make the change;

      THIS is something I could learn more about.

  24. Jan 2016
    1. So, my fellow Americans, whatever you may believe, whether you prefer one party or no party, our collective future depends on your willingness to uphold your obligations as a citizen.  To vote.  To speak out.

      Absolutely, but it's government's job at all levels--from our hometowns to Washington, DC--to make it easier for citizens to do that. Far too many Americans simply can't fulfill many of these "obligations as a citizen," due to work, or kids or fear or lack of information, or school, basically, life. Government has to lower those barriers, make it way more possible for citizens to do their civic duties. There's a tremendous opportunity to deploy free, open source tools--heck, even proprietary ones--here.

    2. It doesn’t work if we think the people who disagree with us are all motivated by malice, or that our political opponents are unpatriotic.  Democracy grinds to a halt without a willingness to compromise; or when even basic facts are contested, and we listen only to those who agree with us. 

      C'mon, civic technologists, government innovators, open data advocates: this can be a call to arms. Isn't the point of "open government" to bring people together to engage with their leaders, provide the facts, and allow more informed, engaged debate?

    3. That’s how we forged a Trans-Pacific Partnership to open markets, protect workers and the environment, and advance American leadership in Asia.  It cuts 18,000 taxes on products Made in America, and supports more good jobs.  With TPP, China doesn’t set the rules in that region, we do.  You want to show our strength in this century?  Approve this agreement.  Give us the tools to enforce it. 

      An opportunity to employ online, open co-creation tools. Such as, say, Hypothes.is. Or what the D.C.'s Mayor Bowser and city council are doing with the Madison online policymaking software.

      Back when this was still being negotiated in secret, a leaked chapter of TPP was opened on the very first version of Madison. What could've been as far as harnessing open online annotation for transparent, smarter policy outcomes.

    4. how do we make technology work for us, and not against us

      This is a critical question for both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, and for every presidential candidate. But at least the President and Congressional leaders are talking about it--we've heard next to nothing from all the candidates for the White House, and next to nothing at all the debates.

      I wonder: what happens to 18F, USDS, each agency's online engagement staff, etc. the day after a GOP candidate wins? What happens if the White House stays with Democrats? Beats me, and that's incredibly problematic.

      Either way, Congress can and should also play a role in supporting--at least maintaining--the progress made on open source, adopting/creating better tech, outfits like 18F/USDS. Building out a Congressional-and-civil-society "tech transition survival" plan would be a great, bipartisan, bicameral project. I think it's also fully within the realm of possibility.

  25. Dec 2015
    1. Likewise, the era of "open data", "big data" and "open source mapping" has made previously inaccessible spatial datasets (or perhaps only accessible to those within certain, largely governmental, institutions) more widely available, allowing a range of people to come to grips with the geographies (aka map) any number of phenomena.
  26. Sep 2015
    1. due to digital communications tools, social media and the Internet
    2. And no tool digital communication tool fosters this more than collaborative annotation, which engages citizens with the primary sources of politics and directly with each other.

    3. What is the relationship between young people's online activities and their political participation?

      Teaching that there is such a connection should be a priority for digital pedagogues.

    4. reshaping the manner in which young people participate in public life?

      Well, simply put, they are. When else in history would this have been possible for a farm boy. Seriously, though, young people have public personas today like they never have before.

    5. How can policy makers, educators and software designer promote frequent, equitable and meaningful political engagement among youth through the use of digital media?

      Two words: open annotation.

    6. the prospect that new media can become a bridge to young people's involvement with politics and other democratic institutions.

      Quote this somewhere...

  27. www.schooljournalism.org www.schooljournalism.org
    1. ASNE

      American Society of News Editors=possible partner/funder

    2. news literacy curriculum

      I like this idea a lot. Annotation seems as though it could play a major role here.

    3. John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, the Robert R. McCormick Foundation and the Donald W. Reynolds Foundation.

      Funders of this theme.

    1. active, informed, responsible, and effective citizens.

      Note adjectives here:

      • active as in participatory
      • informed as in well- and critically-read
      • responsible as in listening to others, acting reasonably
      • effective as in taking action that has results
    2. young people from disadvantaged backgrounds are far less likely to be informed and to vote.

      Emphasis on peer to peer learning, open, free software...

    3. civic education

      ...and civic appreciation and civic enthusiasm...

  28. Sep 2013
    1. Indeed no one may rely on the honesty of his life as a guarantee that he will be able to live securely in Athens; for the men who have chosen to neglect what is their own and to plot against what belongs to others do not keep their hands off citizens who live soberly and bring before you only those who do evil; on the contrary, they advertise their powers in their attacks upon men who are entirely innocent, and so get more money from those who are clearly guilty.24

      This might seem very far from what we'd consider as civic engagement, but is it?